Property Management Growth with DoorGrow
🚀 Struggling to grow your property management business? 🔥 Need more doors but feel stuck? ⚙️ Operations a mess? Welcome to Property Management Growth with DoorGrow! This is THE podcast for property managers who want to scale faster, add more doors, and systemize their operations—without the B.S. Hosted by Jason Hull, marketing expert, entrepreneur coach, and property management growth strategist, we bring you the best strategies, insights, and hacks to help you dominate your market. Learn from top property managers, industry experts, and vendors sharing real-world tactics that actually work. ✅ How to attract more property owners ✅ Fixing broken operations & streamlining processes ✅ Marketing & sales strategies that get you more doors ✅ Eliminating stress & scaling efficiently Join our free community of growth-focused property managers at DoorGrowClub.com and get the best property management marketing & growth strategies at DoorGrow.com. 🎧 Subscribe now and start growing your business today!
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DGS 318: The Hidden Thief in Your Property Management Business
12/05/2025
DGS 318: The Hidden Thief in Your Property Management Business
How often are you interrupted in your property management business? Tenant and owner phone calls, emails, maintenance requests, team member questions… it’s an endless cycle of wasted time and stolen profits. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the hidden thief in every property management business: the Interruption Burglar. You’ll Learn [01:23] The Burglar Stealing From Your Business [07:41] Becoming Aware of Your Company’s Time Loss [13:20] If Your Business Isn’t Growing, It is Dying Quotables “There's a burglar that lives inside everybody's business.” “One interruption is going to cost you somewhere between 15 minutes and 30 minutes of wasted labor.” “All it takes is questions to make you conscious of things you're unconscious of currently.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) Nobody can even see this guy running around stealing until we do some of these exercises with our clients. And then they start to become conscious and they can now see this interruption burglar sneaking around, stealing money, stealing profits, wasting everybody's time. Welcome everybody. We are Jason and Sarah Hull the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors. improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. We are the best in the world. And at DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to relationships, real estate deals, and residual income. And our mission at DoorGrow. is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so today, Sarah and I thought we would chat about, she said, you've been wanting to talk about this for a little while. So we're going to be chatting about what? Interruption. All right, specifically, the interruption burglar. So maybe I'm dating myself a little bit, but I don't know if you remember the Hamburglar. I do. McDonald's, okay, all right, that's good. so for those of you listening, maybe you remember like McDonald's had the Hamburglar and he was this sneaky, creepy guy going around stealing people's cheeseburgers, right? And there's another burglar. There's a burglar that lives inside everybody's business. and it's the interruption burglar. And the interruption burglar is stealing your money by interrupting. And so every interruption in a business is a hidden thief stealing from your business. And most business owners give a blank check out to every tenant and owner that they bring on that says, call me whenever you want to, interrupt me whenever you want to, steal all my profits. And a lot of property managers think they have to talk to everybody and that's what they're paid to do. And so they have to always be available. So we're going to kind of throw a wrench into that sort of level of thinking because we've talked to lot of clients get out of the trap of lacking profit, lacking margin by helping them escape or eliminate or tear up this blank check and eliminate the interruption burglar, or at least put some guardrails around that guy. so according to Gary Keller's book, The One Thing, it cites a study saying that one interruption costs 18 minutes of productivity. Dan Martel's book about time management says I think it's like 26 minutes of productivity. So I don't know if we're just that much worse when we get interrupted now. But basically One interruption is going to cost you somewhere between 15 minutes and 30 minutes of wasted labor. Why? Because when we get interrupted, if we're in the flow or we're working on things and we're being productive as a team member or as a CEO or COO or whatever our role is, we get interrupted. We then have to rebuild that house of cards that we were in the middle of working on, figure out where was I, what was I working on, you know, kind of reestablish our thinking, get back into the groove of what we were trying to accomplish, what we were working on, especially when we're trying to get into deep work where things get really productive and effective. And so one interruption, if it happens every 20 minutes or so, which in a property management business is not hard to do, you may find you feel like you're just spinning your wheels or your team members are working and busy all day long, but they're not actually producing a whole lot of output. And so this can be very expensive in a property management business. Not only that, but usually a lot of times the interruptions are internal. So you ever heard of sneaker net? Like somebody walks into your office, it's the most inefficient network ever, and then you're like, hey, do you got a minute? Or I have this question, and maybe you're the person they're all coming to ask questions to because you're the boss, and they're interrupting you all the time. And so then you're like, well, getting interrupted. And now you've got two people. One's interrupting the other and you're wasting a lot of labor. And then we set up scenarios in which one person has the ability to interrupt multiple people in the business. This is where we set up Slack channels and other stupid communication methodologies that people think is more productive, where there's one too many communication, which becomes one too many interruptions. So one interruption, instead of costing you like maybe 15, 20 minutes of labor or a half hour of labor, It can quadruple. It can be 10 people at a time. It can be really expensive. And then, you know, sometimes, you know, one's interrupting the other. So you've got it's doubling. You know, people are just wasting your time and money. And so it's really easy for you to lose all of your profits and all your margins to staff through interruptions and a lack of productivity. And we see people get stuck at small door counts on a per person basis. They're like, I can only manage 50 units by myself, or a property manager with a whole team, I can only manage 100 units. And a lot of people think, well, that's pretty good, but it's not. Sarah managed 265 at her peak, basically by herself. Eventually had one part-time person. I had one part-time person. Yeah, eventually. was part-time, but between us we You weren't even a full-time equivalent. Yeah, and that's because you had eliminated a lot of interruptions because you just didn't want to deal with them. And you set really good boundaries. Well, yeah, which was to not be interrupted. Yeah. So cool. So that's the interruption burglar. This is one of the things we help clients figure out. We help them figure out how do we eliminate the interruptions? How do we create better, healthier, more effective communication systems Sometimes your clients do this. Sometimes your team members do it. Yeah. We've got to be able to separate ourselves where we can and reduce or completely eliminate interruptions. Yeah. That's the goal. So we have methodologies that we take our clients through to, one, identify their own interruptions, the things that are interrupting them. And then we have a process for taking their team through a process so that they become conscious of the interruptions so that they can, everybody in the business can start to protect the business from this interruption burglar because interruption burglar, sneaky. Nobody can even see this guy running around stealing until we do some of these exercises with our clients. And then they start to become conscious and they can now see this interruption burglar sneaking around, stealing money, stealing profits, wasting everybody's time. And nobody likes the interruptions anyway. So by reducing them, everybody's happier. Even the people that are interrupting you, like tenants and owners are happier and less anxious. If you set better guardrails, better expectations, better boundaries, they actually can trust you more to do the job instead of feeling like they need to micromanage the person that's managing their rental property, which is ridiculous. Why don't they just cut you out if they're going to micromanage something, right? So yeah, they don't need to do that. Okay. I don't know what else we need to say about this, but. Well, one of the things that I had created recently within the last two months was a time optimization assessment that you can go through and take and you can do it every day. Kind of get a grade and a score and see what went well and what didn't go so well and then it will help you figure out what can you optimize and what can you change and You can do that even Right now so if you would like to get access to that it's a longer link So it's not like I can just give you the URL to it So I would say the easiest way to get it if you would like access to it is just email me and Sarah doorgrow.com s-a-r-a-h at doorgrow.com So if you'd like that I would be very happy to send you the link and you can use that as long as you would like but you'll essentially go through answer a couple of questions and then it will email you your results and your score so it will tell you overall you know what were the things that didn't go so well and Oftentimes when you're filling a report out like this at the end of the day It just makes you very conscious of it because sometimes our days tend to get away from us and they wonder then at the end of the day, man, how did that happen? I didn't get to that thing that I really wanted to do. Man, I was busy all day long, but I just don't feel like I was very productive or I don't feel like I got to the things that I wanted to get to. Well, this will help you while you're answering these questions. It'll just point to a few things that you can optimize. And sometimes I've tested this out with our clients a few times too. go, ⁓ as they're taking this assessment and just answering the questions, they're going, well, I can already tell what kind of day this was. This was not good. This was not good. This was not good. And then the good news is just by taking that assessment, you have a better idea of how to approach things and hopefully a better plan for the following day. Sometimes all it takes is questions to make you conscious of things you're unconscious of currently. And when we're unconscious of the interruption burglar, he gets away with murder. Like he's just stealing your money. So we've got to stop that guy. All right. So we've got a sponsor. So let me share that with everybody real quick. We appreciate our sponsors. So our sponsor today is Blanket. And Blanket is a property retention and growth platform that helps property managers stop losing doors, add more revenue and increase the number of properties they manage. Wow, your clients with a branded investor dashboard and an off market marketplace, while your team gets all the tools they need to identify owners at risk of churning and powerful systems to help you add more doors. And so it helps you retain the doors, even if your clients sell or leave. You can keep the the units, it's really a cool system. I recommend everybody uses it. And we coach and recommend our clients use it. I think it's a great system. So. For sure. All right. I think also we had just had our clients go through a time optimization challenge. We did. Using some of the things that we talk about in the program, some of the components that we coach on and some of the things that you will see in that time optimization assessment. Not all of the things, but. Some of the things in the assessment are on there and then of course there's a lot more. So what we've noticed and what a lot of people had noticed when they went through that assessment and that challenge is, wow, there is a lot of time in the business that just gets eaten up by different things and it's not hard at all to get lost. It's not hard to kind of get consumed by the day to day. It's not hard to get lost in all of the tasks that are required by a property management company. And this really goes for you and it goes for your team. Because just looking at every person's time on the team can be really, really helpful. One person might be wildly efficient. And if that person that's efficient is, let's say, the business owner, the business owner might. assume then, well, everybody on my team is really efficient because I'm really efficient. And that may not be the case. So our goal is to help you figure out, you know, who is efficient and who is using their time wisely and perhaps who is not. So that way we can figure out what are the things that we can shift? What are the things that we can change? And oftentimes it's not even really hard to change. you know what you're doing or how you're doing it. It is different and it can sometimes feel uncomfortable because you just have to do things differently. And I think in the world of property management and especially how things are running today is everyone assumes that you need to just be responding to everything immediately and be on top of everything and be super communicative with everybody. That's not always the case. That may not get you the best results. So it can create a lot of work. But being busy and being productive are two very different things. So it's our goal always to help property managers figure out what can I do to actually be more productive? And how can I make sure that somebody on the team is always having time to focus on the income generating activities? Because if you are not focusing on growth in the business, it is slowly dying. So if there's no one who's focused on growth or if there's one person who's just a little bit, it's like, well, I do it for, you know, five hours a week when I can. And when I'm not busy doing all of these other things, what's happening is we just get stuck on this hamster wheel where it's kind of like Groundhog Day. You wake up. You do things, you make no progress. You think, I'll do it again tomorrow. You wake up, you do a whole bunch of things, you're busy, but you're not making progress. And then that day just repeats over and over and over. So we're just spending all of our time doing all of these things that aren't actually helping the business grow or helping the business make progress. You're just doing the day-to-day tasks and then it's really hard to grow because sometimes it gets scary to grow. And they go, well, if I'm this busy at 40 units, there's no way I can handle 80. There's no way I can handle 150. There's no way I can handle 500. And if you're running the 500 units the same way you're running the 40 units, the answer is yes, there's no way you can do it. So you need to just look at doing it a different way. Yeah. Yeah, you need to start running your business the way you would at a thousand doors when you have a small amount of doors because it's going to be completely different. And a lot of people, when they first start out, think they need to please everybody, take care of everybody in a special way, and they don't set healthy boundaries. They take on too difficult a clients. They make a lot of mistakes. So by optimizing your time and our goal with our clients isn't just to make you more productive. Our goal with clients is to make sure as a business owner that you are more fulfilled, that you're enjoying your day more. It's not just about being able to somehow accomplish and do more work. The goal really is for you to do more of the things you enjoy and less of the things that you don't enjoy. And so usually for most business owners, that very first exit you need to do in the business is to exit doing the frontline work. If you can make it past that, everything gets a lot easier, it's a lot nicer. But when you're doing frontline work, or when you have an entire team, but they're asking you questions on how to always do or make decisions about the frontline work, you're not out of the frontline work. And so you got to exit the frontline work, then you got to exit managing everybody. And then you got to, the next step is then you're like a CEO or you're a leader and you might want to go to some higher levels of exit, but. A lot of people can't escape the frontline work. They can't figure out how to do that. So they just sell the whole business. They jump all the way to the last exit. They're like, let's go. I need freedom. And then they go start another business and they kind of paint themselves into a corner again and they're miserable. So there's a very simple path that we can take clients through to help them get that freedom. And so if you feel like you're frustrated and you're asking this question all the time, like, why won't my team? just think for themselves. It's because you've built the wrong business. The business is not built around you. The business is built around the business, which means you are now the servant to the business instead of the reverse. And so you built the wrong business, which means you also built the wrong team and you can't see it. Sometimes it takes some outside perspective to get perspective so that you can see it. And that's one of the things we enjoy helping our clients figure out. Sometimes replacing their entire team. And yeah, if you've if you're not enjoying your day to day role and you have an entire team, you built the wrong team because you built it around the wrong person. You're showing up wearing hats and doing things in the business that you shouldn't be doing because you're not the best at this. You're not somebody that enjoys it. And I guarantee if there's certain hats or roles you're wearing or holding on to right now that you don't enjoy, somebody else out there would be better at it than you. And I know that's humbling to think in the beginning. It's a very humbling thing to see, a team member and see them perform better than you, outperform you. But ultimately smart business owners know that you want to build a team of people that are better at the stuff you don't enjoy. Because if you don't enjoy it, you're never going to be great at it. We've got a lot of tactics. We've got a lot of methodologies. There's a lot of little things we could share about that. but in interest of time, if you're interested, Sarah's already offered very generously her cool assessment. Send an email to Sarah with an H at doorgrow.com. It's got to the H otherwise I don't get it. If you spell my name wrong then you don't make the top of it. Wow, okay, yeah. No patience for that. right. Cool. All right. Well, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us. You can check us out at doorgrow.com. For a free training on how to get unlimited free leads, text the word LEADS to 512-648-4608. And we will send you a hour long training that shows you how to get unlimited leads for free in your property management business. That will blow your mind. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com And if you'd like to get the best ideas in property management, join our newsletter at doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye...
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DGS 317: Battlefield to Boardroom: How to Build Tax-Free Wealth
11/28/2025
DGS 317: Battlefield to Boardroom: How to Build Tax-Free Wealth
As a property management business owner, you likely work with seasoned investors who are always looking for new ways to build and preserve their wealth and assets. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Alan Porter to discuss how to reveal the powerful financial strategies the wealthy and large financial institutions use and how you can apply them. You’ll Learn [01:09] Alan’s Inspiration for Uncovering Financial Secrets [08:38] Learning Financial Planning Strategies 90% of People Don’t Know [12:25] How to Get Started on the Path to Tax-Free Retirement [15:43] Strategies For Property Managers and Their Clients Quotables “The one thing you can always trust is for everybody to look out for their own self-interest.” “If your own self-interest is in alignment with their interests, then that's a win-win. Otherwise, someone's gonna lose.” “If you don't have a plan, make one. But you've got to have a plan and improve on it all the time.” Resources Transcript Alan Porter (00:00) I teach people to think outside the box, conventional financial planning, and show them the strategies that the wealthy and banking institutions have been using for years. Now, I show people how to become their own bank. Jason Hull (00:10) All right, welcome everybody. I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, cleaned up hundreds of businesses. Alan Porter (00:26) Thank Jason Hull (00:35) helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations. And we run the leading property management mastermind in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry. eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. So my guest today is Alan Porter of Strategic Wealth Strategies. Welcome, Alan. Alan Porter (01:16) Well, thank you for having me on. Jason Hull (01:18) Yeah, glad to have you. And we're going to be talking about, he's going to be sharing how to reveal the powerful financial strategies, the wealthy use, how you can apply them to. Alan will be uncovering the IRS approved playbook for retiring completely tax free, explain the millionaire tax strategies business owners use to keep more of what they earn and break down Wall Street myths to show how to build lasting wealth without market volatility. So Alan. Again, welcome to the show and why don't we kick things off by give us a little bit of background on you. How did you get into entrepreneurism, into business and give us a little bit of backstory so we understand how this all came to be. Alan Porter (02:00) Well, I never thought I'd be doing this. I retired from the military back in 1993. I was a Blackhawk instructor pilot and I told everybody I had a safe landing for every takeoff and I dodged all the bullets and I had a great career. And I got enrolled in the real estate mortgage business after that up till about 2008. I've had some tragic things happen to my family. In 2009, live in Little, mean Fayetteville, North Carolina. My son lived in Little Rock, Arkansas with his wife, Lynn. She was 39 and they had two little girls that were seven and four. Jason Hull (02:19) in 2009. Alan Porter (02:28) Well, we went down there for Christmas in 2009, but my son had been 100 % disabled for three years and still not getting the disability. And January 5th changed my entire life. His wife, Lynn, called me up. said, Alan, I've been diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer and they've given me six months to live. Of course we were all devastated, but there's a huge financial problem that's developed in my son's family because there's no money coming in. Jason Hull (02:28) Well, we went down there for business in 2009, but my son had been 100 % disabled for three years and still not in a disability. Wow. And January 5th changed my entire life. His wife Lynn called me up, she said, Alan, I've been diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer and they've given me six months to live. Of course, we were all devastated. Yeah, I bet. there's huge financial problem that's developed in my son's family because of the money coming in. Alan Porter (02:55) I'm helping them out, but I don't know for how long Jason Hull (02:55) I'm helping him out, but I don't help him. Alan Porter (02:56) until I'm gonna have to sell my house or do something. But I was like 99 % of the people out there, Jason, that thought life insurance was a death product that you had to die to benefit from it. Well, little did I know she had a terminal illness right or her life insurance policy that she could access within one year of diagnosis of this deadly disease and was completely tax free, which I knew nothing about. It was hundreds of thousands of dollars. Jason Hull (02:58) Yeah. Really? Alan Porter (03:21) And if it had not been for that, my son would be bankrupt and it took a huge financial strain off of me. Jason Hull (03:25) Yeah. Well, long story short, died a year later, so I moved my son back here to Fayetteville, North Carolina. But about a year after that, my daughter's an oncology nurse, and her husband's a doctor at Woodbrook and Raleigh, North Carolina, and just gave birth to my third grandson. And she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and it was very bad. We didn't think she was going to live. Well, now in 2023, she's been 12 years cancer free, but she also was diagnosed with Graves' disease, thyroid eye condition. Alan Porter (03:26) Well, to a long story short, she died a year later. So I moved my son back here to Fayetteville, North Carolina. But about a year after that, my daughter, who's an oncology nurse and her husband's a doctor, they live up in Raleigh, North Carolina, had just given birth to my third grandson. And she was diagnosed with breast cancer and it was very bad. We didn't think she was going to live. Well, now in 2023, she'd been 12 years cancer free, but she also was diagnosed with Graves disease and thyroid eye condition. There's only one treatment for it. It's not a cure-all for anything, but Jason Hull (03:51) And there's only one treatment for it. It's not a cure-all. Alan Porter (03:55) it's a treatment. It's an infusion, eight infusions of this drug is called Tepezza I believe. The first one was like $32,000. The last one was almost a quarter of a million dollars. That was in May of 2023. On January of 2024, the thyroid eye condition came back. In February, she went to the doctor. The doctor said, Nicole, I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do until you go blind and then we can operate. I'm thinking, man, what a prognosis. Jason Hull (03:55) my Yeah. ⁓ Alan Porter (04:21) So we tried to get her a study at Duke. She didn't qualify for that because she had already taken the Tepezza But April did get her into the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. But basically there's nothing they can do for her. She was up there for about four days for testing and consultation. But basically, like I said, there's nothing they can do for her. They got a drug that may be 50 % effective. It's not improved by insurance. And believe it or not, it's even more expensive than the Tepezza is. And it's just, I mean, so. Jason Hull (04:39) Yeah. Yeah. Alan Porter (04:51) So both of my kids are living day to day in misery. And when I got started in this, knew, like I said, these things, because I was to have a very successful real estate mortgage business. And I said, these financial strategies that the insurance companies have, why don't people know about this? These are the greatest financial vehicles out there. People tell me, well, listen to Suzy Orman and Dave Ramsey, insurance is not a good investment. Well, first off, it's not an investment. Jason Hull (04:54) When I got started in this, knew, like I said, these things, because I was very successful in estate in my early years. I said, these financial strategies that the insurance companies have, why don't people know about this? These are the greatest financial vehicles out there. People tell me, listen, as soon as you arm it today, Ramsey, insurance is not a good investment. Well, first off, it's not an investment. Alan Porter (05:18) It's an asset class all of its own. There's no other financial product that can Jason Hull (05:19) It's an asset class all of itself. There's no other financial product that... Alan Porter (05:23) provide the protection, performance, and benefits of cash value life insurance when properly structured and fixed and fixed indexed annually. And I'll give you one big point. They eliminate or mitigate the risk in retirement that a stock portfolio only compounds. That's absolutely... Let me ask you this. Have you ever heard of sequence of returns risk? Jason Hull (05:23) could provide the protection, performance, and benefits of cash, money, or life insurance. Yeah. if you have one big point, they eliminate or mitigate the risk in retirement that a stock portfolio only compacts. That's absolutely, let me ask you this, have you ever heard of sequence of returns risk? Sequencing returns? Sequence of returns risk. No. Alan Porter (05:46) Sequence of returns risk. Well, don't feel lonely because 99 % of the people I talk to, to include multi-millionaires that have fee-based advisors. And let's say that you're 65 years of age and you go to retire and you got a million dollars in your stock portfolio. They used to say a 4 % distribution rate was a safe distribution rate to last for 30 years, index for inflation at 3%. Well, my plans go to age 120. They don't cut off in 30 years. Jason Hull (05:50) Well, don't feel lonely because 99 % of the people I talk to include multi-millionaires that have fee-based advisors. let's say that you're 65 years of age and you go to retire. You have a million dollars in your stock portfolio. They used to say a 4 % distribution rate was a safe distribution rate to last for 30 years, index for inflation at 3%. Well, my plans go at age 120. They don't cut off in 30 years. But the problem with that 4 % distribution rate Alan Porter (06:15) But the problem is that 4 % distribution rate, that's Jason Hull (06:19) That's $40,000 a year. And that stock portfolio, that's not guaranteed. What if you have a 10 % loss the first year? now your million dollars goes down to $900,000 minus the $40,000 you took out minus the fees you paid on financial advisor whether you make money or not. And then the next two to three years, 2008 happens again, where you lost 38 to 52%. You never got the money in the fifth year. And when I tell people about this, they're financial advisors, Alan Porter (06:19) $40,000 a year. And that stock portfolio, that's not guaranteed. What if you have a 10 % loss the first year? So now your million dollars goes down to 900,000 minus the $40,000 you took out minus the fees you pay that financial advisor, whether you make money or not. And then the next two to three years, 2008 happens again, where you lost 38 to 52%. You're going to be out of money in the fifth year. And when I tell people about this and their financial advisors, Don't tell them, I mean, they're said, I said, why do you think that is? Jason Hull (06:45) don't tell them. I made letters, I said, why do you think that is? Alan Porter (06:48) It's because they make a fee whether you make money or not. The number one fear in retirement is running out of money before you run out of money. I can eliminate that. Jason Hull (06:49) Because they make a fee, well, if you make money or not. The number one fair return is 20,000 dollars. Yeah, compensation structures are incentive models. And so if their incentive is not to tell you, it's because they're getting paid to not tell you. Well, they're supposed to be fiduciary looking out for their best interest clients. I'm a certified financial financial advisor. Yeah, but regardless, the one thing you can always trust is for everybody to look out for their own self-interest. Oh, you're right there. Alan Porter (06:59) Yeah, exactly right. Well, they're supposed to be fiduciaries looking out for their best interest clients. I'm a certified financial fiduciary. you're right there. Jason Hull (07:18) So if your own self-interest is in alignment with their interests, then that's a win-win. Otherwise, someone's gonna lose. Yeah. It's always the clients. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, that's quite the story. how is everybody doing now? Alan Porter (07:26) Yep. And it's always the client. My son looks like he's 85 years old and my daughter's living day to day in pain. Jason Hull (07:43) Yeah, yeah. So you have this burden of trying to figure out how do I take care of them? How do I make sure that, you know, taking care of your kids and, you know, nothing's more stressful emotionally or more motivating for us as a parent than our own kids having it going through a tough time. Yeah. I remember my oldest daughter, she was born with a birth defect that there was a rotation in her gut and she was just always sick, throwing up, stuff like this. Well, she almost died. We didn't know this. got, went and got a scan. Everything was inflamed. They're like, we have to do emergency surgery immediately. And yeah, it was pretty scary as a parent. And they had to like pull her guts out, do surgery, put them back in. And she was a little kid, you know? Now she's my oldest. I mean, she's still my oldest, but now she works for me. and in DoorGrow which is great. But yeah, I remember those times. That's really scary. And I can imagine that's just really a big load on your shoulders. So did this kind of spark you creating the strategic wealth strategies then? Alan Porter (08:30) No. Absolutely, that's my passion for this. I'm very passionate about what I do. It's all about education because people don't know. Jason Hull (08:49) Explain the passion, like what gets you excited about this? Alan Porter (08:53) Well, educating people. That's what I did in the Army. I was an educator. I taught people how to fly. it's just like this, educating people. I teach people to think outside the box, conventional financial planning, and show them the strategies that the wealthy and banking institutions have been using for years. Now, I show people how to become their own bank. I've been doing this for a decade and a half. And why don't everybody doesn't do this? I don't know why. mean, you borrow money from yourself, you pay yourself back compound interest. Jason Hull (09:16) you Alan Porter (09:20) and not the financial institutions and you eliminate the effective interest cost that you pay on the money that you borrow. And people, are you aware of what effective interest cost is? Banks love it. I had a gentleman who wanted to do my debt free for life plan. And I said, well, how much debt do you have? He says, well, we bought a new house a couple of months ago, a couple of car payments, a loan and a credit card. I said, what's the interest rate on your mortgage? He said 2.75. Jason Hull (09:20) Yeah. And people, are you aware? No, what is that? Alan Porter (09:46) I said, what's your effective interest cost on that? He says, well, I don't know what you're talking about, Alan. I said, don't fill it, only most people don't. Fill out my form, we'll do a Zoom conference the following week. I said, you got $461,000 in debt. That's not your problem. The problem is the 49.76 effective interest cost, you're paying on that 2.75 % mortgage. His eyes got real big and he said, Alan, how is that possible? I said, it's not going to get down to the 2.75 until the last couple of months of the mortgage. Jason Hull (10:10) Yeah. ⁓ Alan Porter (10:14) You've got a credit card here that's over 90 % effective interest cost. And even though you've got great credits, your average effective interest cost is over 46%. So my next question to him was, what financial vehicle are you investing in, your 401k or anything else, that gives you a 46 % return on your money? Because 46 cents of every dollar that you pay out goes to compound interest for some financial institution, and that money's gone for you forever. Jason Hull (10:17) and ⁓ Alan Porter (10:38) He said, well, nothing. In fact, I lost 10 % of my 401k. Jason Hull (10:40) Yeah, that'd be hard to find that much. And then my last question was how long does it you to your debts off? I said with my cap three buck of money and a whole lot of insurance policy, 14.17 years past, saving $73,000. And in the 10th year it would be 52 years of bids, and there's over $149,000 in cap Alan Porter (10:43) And then my last question was, how long can it take you to pay your debts off the way you're doing it? I 20 some years. I said, with my tax-free bucket of money and a whole life insurance policy and our software, we're paying all your debts off 14.17 years faster, saving you $73,000 in interest. And in the 10th year, you'll be 52 years of age and there's over $139,000 in a tax-free bucket of money that you can use ⁓ to buy a new car, whatever, college education for your kids. Jason Hull (11:06) you can use uh buy a new car whatever college education for your kids at that point your debt benefits will be $400,000 in tax-free money from the federal bank but think about this you don't have to any more money in this by the time you're 65 there'll be over $400,000 in tax-free money that you can use to supplement your income that does not affect the taxation of social security or the tax and community care part which will be in the thousands per year Alan Porter (11:13) At that point, your debt benefits over $400,000 of tax-free money to protect your family. Think about this. You don't have to put any more money in this. By the time you're 65, there'll be over a quarter of a million dollars in a tax-free bucket of money that you can use to supplement your income that does not affect the taxation of Social Security or the means testing for Medicare Part B, which will be in the thousands per year. You're protected from lawsuits, liens, and judgments, and it eliminates or mitigates all the risk in retirement. This is absolutely great for real estate investors. Jason Hull (11:35) Yeah. Yeah ⁓ Alan Porter (11:42) Because once they build that money up in the cash value of their policy, they can take it, go buy a property, and pay themselves back. I do this all the time. I just bought two new cars in last two years. I pay myself back. I'm going to have tens of thousands of dollars more because I compounded interest for me instead of some financial institution. Jason Hull (12:03) So you said multiple times, like why aren't people doing this? Well maybe you could answer your own question, why aren't people doing this? Alan Porter (12:10) It's lack of education. It ought to be taught in high school, but it's not. I've got college professors with PhD degrees in accounting and finance. They have no idea what I'm talking about. They ask me to teach their classes. Jason Hull (12:20) Yeah, got it. So it was just a lack of education on this. Alan Porter (12:24) That's exactly what it is. Jason Hull (12:25) So, yeah, well, I mean, it sounds like something that everybody should be doing. So how does somebody get started with this or how do they become aware of this or what would you say are the first steps? Alan Porter (12:38) Well, give...
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DGS 316: Happier Property Managers - Mindset, Mental Health and The Future of PM with Ashleigh Goodchild
11/21/2025
DGS 316: Happier Property Managers - Mindset, Mental Health and The Future of PM with Ashleigh Goodchild
Do you enjoy property management? It’s often a thankless industry, and it’s easy for property management business owners and their team members to become unhappy and burnt out. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Ashleigh Goodchild, the voice behind PM Collective, to explore what it really takes to build a property management career that you can enjoy. You’ll Learn [01:06] Importance of Having Support [08:01] Community-Led Learning for Property Managers [15:07] Structured Management vs. Random Leadership [21:36] People-Centric Property Management [32:41] Making the Invisible Visible Quotables “There's so much help available out there. And a lot of times we just don't ask as entrepreneurs.” “The slowest path to growth is to do it alone.” “A lot of people don't actually see what we do. And I think that's where you've got the opportunity.” Resources Transcript Ashleigh Goodchild (00:00) Generally churn rate and loss rate for businesses can range anywhere between 15 and 30%. Our office is sitting at about 5%. we've got 1200 doors, to have that 5 % churn rate actually considered really great. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (00:05) Yeah. Welcome everybody. I am Jason Hull, the owner and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We've talked to thousands of property managers, helped them add hundreds of doors, help them increase profit, simplify operations, get themselves out of the business more and more. And we believe the good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners. and their businesses. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. So my guest today is Ashleigh Goodchild. Welcome. She's the voice behind PM Collective, the art of property management. together, we're going to explore what it really takes to build a property management career that you can enjoy covering the balance between structured management and random leadership, how to create workplaces people actually want to stay in, and Ashleigh's vision for a more human, less transactional industry. So Ashleigh, welcome to the show. Ashleigh Goodchild (01:35) Thank you so much for having me. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (01:37) So let's give us a little bit of background on you for those that don't know you yet, that maybe you're listening. How did you get into entrepreneurism? How did you get into doing what you're doing now? Give us some of the backstory. Ashleigh Goodchild (01:52) Yeah, so I started real estate back when I was 18 and like many people just falling into it and I was placed into an office that had a business owner, one was an air hostess and one was a pilot and really had no idea of how to run the business. So at that age of 18 and not knowing any better, I just jumped straight into the business and started helping them quite a lot. And then As I went on in my career, I then started my business, SoCo Realty, when I was 23. So I've had that business for 20 years and I've had a very blessed property management and business ownership life. I do say though that when I was 23 and when I started the business, I don't think it would have mattered what I was doing. It wasn't actually about the property management. It was actually probably about business ownership that I was drawn to. And I think I always say, even if I was a hairdresser at 23, it would have been a hairdresser shop that I opened up, just happened to be working in property management. So I've been running that and I've had a very blessed property management life. I always feel a little bit guilty when people talk about the roller coaster of their property management businesses, because I don't feel like I've had that. Or if I have, I sort of feel like maybe I just didn't sweat the small stuff. And so that led me into... Jason Hull - DoorGrow (02:50) Yeah. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (03:10) running and founding PM Collective, which was bringing in a peer-to-peer mentorship and training Australia-wide where we run 200 coffee and conversations every year. And we really support each other in the industry just by that casual learning from each other. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (03:27) That's awesome. So they're getting together, hanging out with each other, sharing ideas, and you're kind of the facilitator in this. Ashleigh Goodchild (03:35) Yeah, we do it Australia wide. have loads of hosts around Australia. So other people like myself who want to give back. So it's a great opportunity for people to give back. We've actually run a couple over in the US as well. And we have just had one in New Zealand. So the idea is that it allows people in the industry who have been in for a long time, like I said, to give back to the industry and help the the younger ones that are coming in to really learn to enjoy the career as well. So it's really great. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (04:04) Yeah, you know, it's amazing how much help is available and how willing people are to help. Yeah, I'm reading a book right now by Simon Squibb, I believe is his name, something like that. And it's it's about like following your dream and having a dream. But he said he created an organization that. I guess over in the UK, but he created this organization that allowed people to either help. fun people's dreams or for people to get their dreams launched. And he said that they had way more people. He thought everybody would be wanting to get the dream and their own dream met. He said they had way more people offering to help those that had a dream. And so, and he was talking about how much help is available. So. There's so much help available out there. And a lot of times we just don't ask as entrepreneurs. know, there's this funny thing that when we start out as an entrepreneur, we've kind of come through this whole world where we're such a minority, because most people on the planet are not entrepreneurial currently. And so we get a lot of feedback that we're weird or that we're different or that we're strange. And so we learn to kind of isolate. We start to recognize, I'm different and there isn't a lot of help or support. which is kind of an inaccurate viewpoint, but we kind of view ourselves as an island. And then we start our journey as an entrepreneur and we usually think we're gonna do it all ourselves. We're gonna read the right books and watch YouTube videos and we wear it as a badge of honor. I'm gonna get this thing started and do it all alone. that's, as I say at the end of my podcast each episode, that's the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. Ashleigh Goodchild (05:40) I think as well, like we find that a lot of people are really great at their jobs. They're either, you know, great property managers, great BDMs, and they have people around them that say, you know, you're so good at what you do, you should go open up your own business. And I don't think people actually realize there is, it can be really hard to start your business. I mean, you've got the logistics side of things, but you just assume the phone's going to keep calling and start calling as soon as you're out on your own. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:02) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (06:09) And I think that that's one of the biggest things that I see people underestimate. And so to be able to give them that support and not be forced to sell their business because it's just got too stressful. I've got one of my clients where she had her own property management business when she was in her twenties. And she ended up selling it because it was just too much to handle at that age. She didn't have the support, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:14) Yeah. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (06:36) And I remember her saying, I wish PM Collective was around because I wouldn't have sold my business. But now I can have the stamina for my business because I've got that support around me. So I think that that's where I'm seeing a really big gap. people who think, you know, people who are great at their job, which means that they think they're going to be great at business ownership, which is not always the case as well. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:57) Yeah, there's a great book on that exact subject. It's called the E-Myth, the E-Myth Revisited. And in this book, E is entrepreneur, it's entrepreneur myth. And basically the summary of the whole book is if you think you, if you've learned how to do the technician level work, you like you have learned how to bake really great cakes. The myth is that now you think, well, I could go start a business and start a bakery making cakes. But a business involves a lot more. A business involves marketing, sales, accounting, you know, a lot of different stuff that is outside the skill set of baking a cake. And so the same thing with property management. Some people are like, I've managed properties for a while, or I've done business development for a property management company, done sales for a while. And they think I could now go start a business doing this. And that's the technician level work. That's not the business ownership type of stuff. then that's where things get a little more difficult. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (07:57) read that book it's actually a really great one for newbies in the business. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (08:01) Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I love that. So how does the PM collective work? How are you getting people together? How do you facilitate this? What does a typical meetup look like? How do you make these connections? Ashleigh Goodchild (08:13) Yeah, so we very much just have hosts that reach out to us and they see a gap in their location. And then they just give me, they have to give me three dates, times and locations. And I just set them up online for them. So it's relatively easy for the host. Everyone just rocks up. It's very, very casual. They grab their own coffee, they take a seat and the host is there just to sort of welcome everyone and sort of facilitate it to a certain point. We have the groups, they can range anywhere in size between four people to 20 people. And to be honest, even the groups of four, I find are so important because I find that the intimate conversations are so much stronger in those small groups and people really open up. And the conversation could be about anything. It could be about... certain products that we're using. might be about some subscriptions. It might be about what's currently not working, what demos we've had, what problems we've had. And I find in that smaller group, people definitely open up a lot more and get that real, really good support that they need. Sometimes it's we chat on a personal level. Again, that comes down to people that are personally happy, I believe make the best. employees and their best employers. And it's really important that we look after people's personal state and having those personal conversations and those opportunities to vent, think are incredibly important in that environment as well. And then we have a big mixture. So we've got some groups where we get a lot of BDMs come along, some where it's just the solo printers, some where it's the referring partners, they sort of just all find their own vibe. But one of the biggest things that has been really important is that consistency. So knowing the for the public to know that we're going to show up every single month at this location. And we're here if and when you need us. That consistency is really important. So really casual, you don't need to buy a ticket or anything like that. And I think that really what's made them successful though is that consistency. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (10:15) Got it. So is how does the PM collective have the bandwidth to facilitate this? How do you guys make money? How does that work? Ashleigh Goodchild (10:23) So we don't, we sort of run it as a bit of a not-for-profit, even though it's not registered as a not-for-profit. So the purpose is very much community-led learning. And I guess on a personal level, I run my own business, my own real estate business. So for me, that's my bread and butter, and this is really what's considered my passion project. So this is sort of more my legacy, I guess. And, you know, I've got the time and the energy. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (10:27) Okay. Ashleigh Goodchild (10:48) to and the love to do it. So that's what I do. We have got great sponsors who help support our podcast and cover the cost for the membership and things like that. And we've got a membership base, which would be say, I guess on the smaller medium size. And over time that will grow. But for now, the support is really where it's at and we're driven by that with no need. for any strong monetary value coming through at the moment. That might change in 10 years, but for now and the last five years, it's been perfect. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (11:19) Well, mean, it sounds like the people that are really giving to this community like yourself probably have some of the healthiest businesses because the people that are in over their head don't have time to go hang out or go to lunch or to meet up with people. so, you know, that, and that, you know, that allows people to come in that maybe they're are struggling to meet and hang out with people that are in a healthier place and kind of lend them a hand up. Right. So. Ashleigh Goodchild (11:32) No. It's interesting because in Australia, we've got what we call CPD points. don't know if you've got them, where they're like compulsory development points that you've got to do to hold your registration. and our events, they are not CPD registered, which means that people don't come along because they are coming because they just have to be registered and they just have to do so many points. They come because they actually want to come along. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (11:57) Okay. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (12:12) And I think you'll find that that has made a massive difference with the vibe. Like we had an event the other night, because we sort of run the separate events as well. And, you know, everyone comes along, they're catching up, they haven't seen each other for a couple of months. And it really feels like someone's birthday party. But the important thing is that people are there because they want to, not because they're going to get a CPD point attached to it. And you really can feel that difference in the vibe. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (12:37) Got it. Okay, well, let's take, I'm gonna do a quick word from our sponsors. This will be relevant. If you are a property management business owner, you're tired of getting tangled up in numbers, KRS SmartBooks has your back. They specialize in property bookkeeping for small to mid-sized managers who'd rather focus on, well, managing. So with over 15 years of experience in real estate, accounting, they're pros in Appfolio Yardi and all the top property software. Trust them to make your monthly reports hassle free so you can get back to what really matters running your business. Head over to KRSbooks.com to book your free discovery call. And so maybe that'll help you have a little more time to get back to the property management community. All right. So back to what we were talking about, Ashleigh. I love, I love this idea. I love that you've facilitated this vehicle for everybody to get together. You just, resonate positivity and I'm sure that kind of sets the tone for the group that people are kind of attracted to. And I've been part of groups where the leaders are very positive and it's just a different category and group of people. There's a lot of people that are helpful, positive. I'm in masterminds like that. And then there's others where the leader is more kind of like a dictator cult leader and like, it's just a very different environment. And there's a lot of guilt and a lot of shame and stuff like this, right? and, I've been in some men's programs and things like that that were like that. And it's just, you know, it's a totally different environment. So you've created, and so this is really, I think a strong Testament to you. How many, how many people are involved in this throughout Australia and beyond. Ashleigh Goodchild (14:13) should know the answer to that and I don't. And I would probably say there would be around 20 hosts around Australia. So 20 people, have started having visionary leaders in each state and to help sort of help me control the states. But yeah, about 20 hosts. But then like I've got, for example, an audio summit coming up. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (14:21) Wow, OK. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (14:37) And that's got 17 leaders in Australia doing an audio summit for me. And we're doing 17 days of tips and tricks. So there is a lot of people that make up all of this, a lot of other coaches and trainers that give their time and their knowledge as well to it. So it really is a big project. in total, I'd say there's probably about a good 40, 50 people from coaches, trainers, leaders. who facilitates some sort of knowledge base for me on all these events. So pretty lucky. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (15:07) So describe to me the difference between structured management and random leadership. Ashleigh Goodchild (15:13) Yeah, so that's something that I practice inside my real estate at SoCo. And one thing that I've learned from other people and other leaders is when we do, obviously you need structured management, in terms of processes and procedures and all of that, and that's fine. But when it comes to leadership, sort of what you talking before about the dictatorship, I feel like I probably practice servant leadership a lot more. practice servant leadership at SoCo, which is the real estate, and I practice servant leadership in PM Collective. And very much I do picture myself or feel that I'm a leader from the bottom and that you just tell me what you need and I will deliver it for you. So I do that both in PM Collective and SoCo. And that's where the support comes from. The random leadership, I think, has been something that has really helped me keep long term staff. I'm known in the industry for having a long term team. anywhere between sort of seven years and 15 years average for property managers, which is great. And one of the things I would say have helped me and I have to say I haven't done this on purpose. It's just the way that I've done it. And I now I reflect back on it. I can see how it's worked. And if we were to every single year, give our team a Christmas bonus every single year, they're going to expect that. And if one year you don't do it because you can't afford it or something's changed, people are going to start getting a little bit ticked off because it's like, where's my bonus? get one every year. And I think the same goes with the Jason Hull - DoorGrow (16:52) become expected. Ashleigh Goodchild (16:54) very much expected. And I think when we start getting, creating expectations with our team, that's when we can start getting a little bit of conflict. And I've seen it in a lot of agencies. So where I, I, I think what I think works really well is things like we might as an office randomly buy someone a coffee, or we might just randomly say, Hey, let's go out for lunch, or randomly, we'll do a Christmas bonus randomly. We might shout everyone a voucher for a massage. All of those random things mean so much more to your staff and they appreciate it so much more. Even if it was that $5 coffee or that random...
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DGS 315: The Myth of Needing More Property Management Leads
11/14/2025
DGS 315: The Myth of Needing More Property Management Leads
When trying to grow your property management business, have you ever thought to yourself, “Man, it would be great if I just had more leads?” In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the Leads Myth and how “just having more leads” will not actually help you grow your business. You’ll Learn [02:06] The Myth of Needing More Leads [11:39] Leaks in Your Sales Pipeline [22:41] The Future of SEO with AI Quotables “Why do we call it the leads myth? Well, the myth is this lie that we believe that you just need more leads. And the assumption in that is that all leads are the same.” “The more clarity you have, the less wrong stuff you're going to be doing.” “Not all clients are equal, right? Which means not all leads you get are equal. You need to qualify them.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) Most of the industry is trapped in a cycle of suck. This is why most property managers suck in most markets. Maybe even you that's listening. We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We help people grow their property management businesses quickly. And our mission is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right. So today we're going to be chatting a little bit about the leads myth that a lot of people believe. So if you have ever thought to yourself, I just need more leads. If I just had more leads, everything else would be great in my business. What do you have to say about that? Well, I think that is not the case. Okay. It's definitely not the case. And I also think almost kind of be careful what you ask for a little bit. getting a whole bunch of leads was never really the best. strategy anyway, unless you have people who are just picking up the phone and calling you and saying hey, I Would love for you to just manage my property. I don't have any questions. Here's my money. I just had a contract Those are leads I want but cold leads that are Not ready to go that need to be warmed up that have a bajillion questions That might not even understand why they want to work with you Specifically, yeah, I'm just not interested in those leads. And the other thing I think we need to discuss on this episode specifically is the changes that we're seeing because of AI. So AI is really great and also it's changing things very rapidly and leads and SEO that's very effective by this too. Okay. So. Let's get into this. So a lot of people believe they just need more leads. And the danger in that is if you really just think you need more leads, you're going to go out to the marketplace and talk to marketers and they're going to go, cool, I'll give you leads. And they will sell you leads basically. So why do we call it the leads myth? Well, the myth is this lie that we believe that you just need more leads. And the assumption in that is that all leads are the same. And they're not, they're not even remotely the same. So there's a couple of different frameworks that we usually talk about to kind of destroy the leads myth. One is the four Ds to revenue. Another is the cycle of suck we talk about and how people get stuck in growth. We talk sometimes about the pipeline leaks that you have in your pipeline. And we talk about the myth of SEO or internet marketing. And then we often talk about any others warm versus cold leads and then David versus Goliath. Okay. So we can tackle these all really quickly and go through each of these and maybe some other things will pop up as we go. Cool. Let's talk about all of that and then we'll talk about why AI has changed all of, really all of those things. Okay. That'll be in conjunction with SEO. All right, so let's go through these. And so for those following along, if you stack all these concepts, each one compounds your speed of growth. They're all related. And so these are frameworks that I love to share with clients to help them understand so that they don't make the mistake of doing the wrong stuff. The more clarity you have, the less wrong stuff you're going to be doing. The less you're going to be experimenting, the less you're going to be wasting time. And if you really wanna collapse time, the easiest hack is reach out to us and we can help you with all of this. We've been doing this for over a decade and a half. We have had hundreds of guinea pigs to figure this all out and we have over 100. case studies and testimonials more than anyone else in the industry. All right. Let's get into this. let's talk about the four D's to revenue. So these are four numbers when multiplied equal the gross revenue in your business. And I sometimes call them the four doors to revenue. And I showed four doors with a little multiplication X next to each of them equals your money. Right? So not all leads are equal. So the, these D's are, if you want to write them down, they each start with a D. It is Deals, doors, duration, and dollars. Okay? So the first is like how many deals is this client going to bring you? Not all clients are equal, right? Which means not all leads you get are equal. You need to qualify them. And how many doors are they bringing to the table? Or how many doors per deal are they bringing? And then the third D is duration. How long are they going to stick around or be involved in property management? is are they an accidental investor that's going to stick around for maybe a year, or are they in the buy and hold game and they'll be around for 10? And then the last D is revenue or is dollars. And so are they a cheapo? Are they a premium buyer? Where do they kind of fit? Or are they somewhere in the middle, like the normals as I call them? So we've got these four Ds. So let's play a quick example. Let's take the accidental investor. They couldn't sell their property. They wanna get it rented out. How does this play out in the 4Ds? done one deal. They didn't mean to do a deal, but they did. And it's usually just one door. Maybe sometimes they have two, but very often we just see one door and they're not looking to... to do more deals because as soon as the market spikes and the market is hot, they're going to bail. They're going to sell, which means the duration is questionable. Let's say it's like one year, like if they can just get it rented. but it might be a few months because if the market spikes three months from now, they're probably going to dump that property pretty quick. And then. than the dollars, they're not your premium buyers. They're not looking to do a lot of improvements. They're not looking to spend a lot of money. They're the people who, they have this property, they aren't quite sure what to do with it. They figure, let's just see if I can get it rented. They want it well taken care of, but they're not generally looking to spend a lot of money or invest a lot of money in either the property or maintenance or repairs or improvements or a property manager. So they're just trying to... Do what they need to do. It's like the bare minimum in order to get a tenant. All right, so one, one, one, right? Like one deal, one door, one year duration, for example, if this is worst case scenario and you sign a one year agreement with them and they're a cheapo, right? Now let's take a really great scenario. What would be maybe an opposite scenario or a really great opportunity? Like my, I will say my second largest client. He had 42 doors I think was the right answer but I was looking to buy more. So when I took him on he had 42 by the time I sold the business he had 60 something. So he was always doing multiple deals. Yeah. The doors that he had came out of multiple deals. So since he did multiple deals he also had multiple doors. was consistently looking to grow. He didn't want to just stop, you know, at a certain point he was always looking. He also was a buy and hold investor. He wasn't trying to buy these things and then wait, you know, until the market spiked and then try to sell them and make a profit. He wasn't up for the long term. And he was not a cheapo. He wasn't trying to cut corners. He wasn't trying to cut costs. You he wanted to work with. a property manager, wanted to take care of the properties and make sure that they were being maintained properly. Yeah. Okay. So that's a great example that previous client that you had. So let's just say like on each of these fees, we use tens instead of ones, right? Like let's say they do 10 deals over the life of being with you. They've got 10 doors. Maybe sometimes it's 10 doors per deal if they're doing small multis or something like this, right? And then you've got a 10 year buy and hold duration. In this hypothetical example that I just threw out, it would be 10 times 10 times 10. This would be over a thousand times greater lifetime value than that accidental investor in our previous hypothetical. Does that make sense? So are these even remotely equal? No, not even remotely equal. Should you then spend the same amount of time trying to cultivate both of those type of leads? Probably not. Would you spend the same amount of time following up or giving them attention? Probably not. And the great investor clients probably are easier to deal with, less emotional, have a much higher margin and operational cost is lower, right? And so there's a lot of benefits. so this is, we're just talking about the revenue piece, but when we look at the cost side of things as well, everybody knows having a really bad owner that's really needy and difficult and emotional about the property. can be a big headache and a big challenge and you may be losing money on some of those doors. So, four D's to revenue, that's one concept. One quick thing I wanna add to that is where do you think these owners hang out? So, if you've got an accidental landlord and they are looking for a property manager, where might that lead come from? Versus where might the lead of a client that has 42 doors come from? There's a lot higher probability that an online lead is going to be an accidental landlord. It's not impossible to get an online lead that has 42 doors. It's just probably not your norm because the ones that have 42 doors, they aren't really dabbling. They aren't going, oh, geez, I wonder if I should get a property manager to maybe help me with these. They are just a little bit more savvy. A lot of times those aren't going to be the leads that you're getting if you're buying leads. Although those are the leads that you want, it's not going to be the norm that you get. All right, so we're 10 minutes into this. We're going to crank through some of the rest of these. So cycle of suck. Cycle of suck, real simple. If you take on any client, it leads to you having some bad clients. So if you take on bad clients, that leads to you having bad properties, which leads to having bad. Residents or tenants which leads to having a bad reputation or reviews which leads to you attracting more bad clients. So not all leads are good. You don't want to take on every client and you definitely don't want to attract or get more bad leads. And so this is a framework that if you understand you can reverse it and focus on a cycle of success where you're picky about the owners you take on, you're picky about the properties you take on, you're picky about the tenants which everybody tries to do anyway. but those first two steps are supremely important. And then you're going to have a methodology for getting more positive reviews. These are things we help our clients with. And so then you create a cycle of success. Most of the industry is trapped in a cycle of suck. This is why most property managers suck in most markets. Maybe even you that's listening. We want you to get out of the cycle of suck. All right, let's talk about the pipeline leaks. Okay. So usually if I were drawing, I would draw a spigot or a faucet or whatever you attach a hose to, and then I would draw a hose, and then I would draw a little plant or tree that you're trying to grow at the end of the yard that this hose is trying to get water to. Most of you listening think, I just need more leads. This is where the lead Smith becomes really obvious, trying to turn on that faucet even more. I just need more water flowing through the hose. That would make sense, that would be true unless there's a problem with the hose, right? Like the hose has some leaks. And if the hose has some major holes in it, there's not going to be a lot coming out the other end. Sometimes very little at all. And so it's not about how many leads you're getting, sometimes it's just how good is your pipeline? How tight is your product? And so we need to make sure that we get those leaks shored up. And we'll just mention what they are real quick, but. One of the earliest ones that affects you is just awareness. It's going to be your perception and reputation online. It's going to be your website. It's going to be your branding. So they can tell that you are in this industry and that it's clear that that's your focus and it's not real estate or something else. And what else? Your culture and purpose. This is the actual product that you sell. So that is another one. And there are two more. Pricing. Pricing, which everybody's trying to price the same way, 10 % or worse, pure percentage, or they're doing flat fee. We have a different innovative pricing model. If you're curious about that, set up a call with our team. We can tell you about it. That allows you to close more deals more easily at a higher price point. And the last is the pitch, right? Selling. And so if you can dial in each of these leaks, what we've noticed over the years is we can double a company's close rate without changing the amount of leads or lead sources that they're getting currently if we can get those things dialed in. And that's significant. Maybe you don't need more leads. Maybe you just need less leakage in your pipeline. Cool. All right, the next one, you had mentioned warm versus cold leads. Do you wanna explain the difference? Yeah, we can talk about warm versus cold. So when I had my property management business, Yeah. what is a cold lead? So cold lead is someone who really has almost zero, very little familiarity with who you are in your company and your brand and what you do. They don't. they should work with you. That's the big thing is why they should work with you. So they don't know you, trust you or like you. That's a cold lead. And a warm lead. Warm lead would be something like a referral or some sort of recommendation. hey, Sarah is the best, I work with her and you should too. Now they're coming in already feeling like, somebody that I know that I trust recommended this person, so therefore I should also trust this person. So those obviously have a much different close rate. And there are things that you can do to increase your close rate or to warm up deals, of course. But if you're spending all of your time trying to close a bunch of cold leads, which generally is going to be what happens when you're purchasing leads, you really don't get to buy warm leads. Right. They're all cold. I mean, that would be great if you could, but when you're buying leads, you're usually buying a lead that is very cold. They don't know you at all. And oftentimes that same lead is being sold to multiple different companies. There's a lot of blood in the water there. So warm leads versus cold leads, the close rate on warm leads will be really high, like 90 % or higher. Cold leads, like the opposite, 10 % or worse. And so I would rather a client get five warm leads and maybe close four of them than 10 cold leads and maybe get one. The hidden pain point or secret with warm versus cold lead generation. or cold lead strategies is time. Cold leads take a massive amount of time because you have to nurture them and warm them up and build the trust and create the relationship. And even after all of that, and all of sudden done, the conversion rate's really low. So all of you know how high the close rate is if you get a really great word of mouth referral. We love those, right? That's a warm lead. So we have strategies and methods that we focus on with clients to increase the warm leads. while avoiding and doing cold lead advertising and avoiding worrying about cold leads. Once you start getting some growth engines installed for your business that give you warm leads, you're not going to want the cold leads. They feel like garbage in comparison, and you're not going to have time for them. And you're not going to wanna waste time on those because those are often the worst owners. All right. What I would say is as far as getting leads in, if you give me three warm leads, I will take three warm leads over even 100 cold leads. Sure. don't, I don't, I'm not really interested because even if I close, let's say two out of the three warm leads, that's great. What's the close rate on 100 cold leads? If it's about 10%, you might close 10. And some of you might be going, Sarah, 10 is better than two. Yeah, you're right. But how much work did it take for me to close the two versus how much work? did it take for me to close the 10? I would rather close two very easy warmed up leads because I can do that again and again and again. So in the same amount of time, I can close way more warm leads than I can cold leads. So I would rather take three warm leads than a hundred cold leads any day of the week. We have a sponsor for this episode. Many of you tell me that maintenance is probably the least enjoyable part of being a property manager and definitely the most time consuming. But what if you could cut that workload by up to 85 %? That's exactly what Vendero has achieved. They've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all your maintenance tasks from initiating work orders and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting. This AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee, learning your preferences and executing tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and never quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well deserved break. Over half of the room last year at DoorGroad Live, our conference signed up with Vendero right there. And then a year later, they're not just satisfied, they're raving about how Vendero has transformed their business, don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with Vendoroo. Visit Vendoroo.ai slash door grow today and make this the last maintenance hire you'll ever need. All right. I thought it was a good time because it was a good time. Waste of time and I don't like to waste time and maintenance coordination can be a huge waste of time. Yes. All right. Let's talk about David versus Goliath. So I'll give you an example. We've got a client. that has, so this is dumb David versus smart David, right? The story of David and Goliath, if you're not familiar with the Bible. David goes to fight Goliath. These two warring nations send out their best person and David decides he is not going to wear the armor, the sword, the shield, all the heavy stuff. He's just bringing out his slingshot. He's got his sling, he's got some rock and he goes out to fight Goliath and he's like, I don't need all that stuff. What most property managers do is David basically brought a superior technology. He brought a gun to a sword fight and he...
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DGS 314: Deduct Yourself Before you Wreck Yourself - Cost Segregation for Property Managers
11/07/2025
DGS 314: Deduct Yourself Before you Wreck Yourself - Cost Segregation for Property Managers
What if you could take out a loan with 0% interest and invest that money for as long as you own your investment property? This is something that cost segregation can help real estate investors do. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Daniel Boyd from CSSI Services to talk about cost segregation, one of the most powerful ways to uncover hidden tax savings for property owners and managers. You’ll Learn [03:10] How Cost Segregation Works [08:54] Recent Changes to Depreciation Rules [11:59] Why Real Estate Investors Should Care About Cost Segregation [18:33] The Importance of Working with Tax Experts Quotables “The big idea here is there's things in the property that wear out fast and there's things that that wear out slow.” “We love deductions because we want to pay as little tax as possible.” “Wouldn't it be great to take a $100,000 loan with 0 % interest, invest it for as long as you own the property?” Resources Transcript Dan Boyd (00:00) Wouldn't it be great to take a $100,000 loan with 0 % interest, invest it for as long as you own the property? And then when you sell the property, you give the loan amount back and you keep whatever you made on that investment. Jason Hull (00:06) I'm Jason Hull, CEO and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. We have been helping people for over a decade and a half. At DoorGrow, our mission statement is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. My guest today is Dan Boyd. We're going to talk about cost segregation, one of the most powerful ways to uncover hidden tax savings for property owners and managers. you'll learn how to accelerate depreciation, apply repair regulations, and know when expenses can be written off immediately. These strategies can help you improve client cashflow, strengthen relationships, and stand out in the market. All right, Dan, welcome to the DoorGrow Show. Thanks so much for being here with you. So Dan, before we get into cost segregation, which is an interesting subject, that's... Dan Boyd (01:10) Thanks so much. Great to be here with you. Jason Hull (01:19) They had some changes recently, right? There's been some changes in depreciation thanks to Mr. Trump and all this stuff going on, right? The president, I think. So I'm curious what you have to say about that. But tell us, how did you get connected to this business? Give us some backstory on Dan. Dan Boyd (01:36) Sure, yeah, it's a little funny. I meet, you bet, I meet people from time to time and they say, how on earth did you get into this line of work? Because it's not like anybody goes to school to work in cost segregation or at least cost segregation sales. know, tale as old as time, I knew somebody. And so I was working in the nonprofit sector. My goal was to become a superintendent. So I had gotten a doctorate in education and I was headed in the right direction. But I found out that the average superintendent lasts for about two years. Dan Boyd (02:05) and then they get run out of town for one reason or the other. And it's typically a very stressful two years. And so while it's a rewarding ⁓ position and the compensation is usually pretty good, I thought, why don't I just skip those two years and go into sales and consulting? And so somebody had told me, I think you'd be pretty good at this. And so I started selling cost segregation for our company. And then, There was an opportunity, they said, you know what, we needed to improve our training and our education, and you've got the perfect background. You understand what we do, but you also come from a world of education, so why don't you join us in that capacity? And so it's been a very good fit since then. Jason Hull (02:28) Got it. So you didn't wake up as like a kid in elementary school saying you wanted to do cost segregation. Dan Boyd (02:48) Believe it or not, no, I can't even say it was on the radar, right? There was like baseball player and then commando and maybe basketball player and football player. So like cost segregation wasn't anywhere near the top of that list. Jason Hull (02:53) Property management business coach was not on my radar back then either, so I get it. All right, cool. So let's get into the topic. So cost segregation, how do we uncover some hidden tax savings? Dan Boyd (03:14) So the big idea here is there's things in a property that wear out fast and there's things in a property that wear out slow. But how do you know? And that's where we come in. So our job is to tell you with our knowledge of the IRS code and buildings, that's what makes us unique. We're very good at both of those things. ⁓ What's the value of everything in your property that wears out quickly? Once you know that, you get to write it off quickly. So let's say you buy an apartment building for a million dollars, Ordinarily, you're going to depreciate that whole building over 27 and a half years. Well, there's components in that property that are going to last three years, five years, seven years. So shouldn't you be able to write it off sooner? The answer is yes. And that was actually there's a landmark court case that led to this. And that was the big argument is, hey, we replace some of these components every five years. You're making us wait 39 years because it's a commercial property to depreciate it. And the court ruled in their favor and said, you're right. And so our job is to come in and really give somebody a huge deduction in the first year. Sometimes 25, 30, 40 % of the building value can be deducted as quickly as the first year. Jason Hull (04:28) Okay, got it. That's significant. Okay. And we love deductions because we want to pay as little tax as possible. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love asking business owners. I say, what's the biggest expense in your business? Dan Boyd (04:34) We do. Absolutely. Yeah. If I have yet to meet somebody who's happy with the amount they have to pay and wouldn't reduce it if they had the chance. Jason Hull (04:49) And then they usually say payroll or staffing. And I say, no taxes, but then payroll. Yeah. they forget about it they don't think of it. It's like grabbing, right? Like you just assume it's there and you have to obey the laws. OK, you just move past it. It's like, well, my biggest expense is payroll because people are expensive. Well, yes, that's true. But if there's if you have deductions, right, if it's part of the tax code, you can legitimately I joke. Dan Boyd (04:55) Yep. And they forget about it because they don't think of it. It's like gravity, right? Like you just assume it's there and you have to obey the laws. And so you just move past it. Right. It's like, well, my biggest expense is payroll because people are expensive. Well, yes, that's true. But if there's if you have deductions, right, if it's part of the tax code, you can legitimately I joke like anybody cannot pay taxes. We help people not owe taxes. Jason Hull (05:17) Okay, yeah. So I was flying actually this weekend with my wife for the first time because she's working on her pilot's license. she wanted me to be in the plane with her and wanted me to experience flying with her. And so she doesn't have her license yet. So I got to sit in the back and she had her instructor next to her and they're flying. And her instructor, I was like this, you know, I was making jokes about how flying isn't. You know, it's pretty relaxing, pretty calm most of the time. And he said, well, I said, I thought it would feel like a roller coaster. He's like, do you want it to feel like a roller coaster? I'm like, sure. And so he does some fancy eight maneuvers or whatever. But what was interesting is when gravity disappeared, when I did not feel gravity anymore, I was like, I'm missing something that I'm so used to. I don't even know that it's there, but you notice it when it's gone quite a bit. Right? It was very noticeable to not have gravity and just be kind of sitting above my seat a little bit as we kind of dropped. And I was like, okay. So yeah, so taxes can be a little bit like gravity, I guess. Constant pressure. Dan Boyd (06:26) Yeah, and if all of sudden, you you were, yeah, if you were used to paying $100,000 in taxes and then all of sudden you didn't have to, you would notice that. That'd be a big deal. Jason Hull (06:33) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that would be great. All right. So what are the steps to making that happen? Dan Boyd (06:42) So first thing is, ⁓ assuming that this makes sense, you've got to owe taxes and you need to hold your building for at least a couple of years. And I can get into why. But ⁓ if you wanted to see, does this make sense for me, just get an estimate. So find a reputable firm to work with that does engineering-based cost segregation. And they'll send you an estimate. And they'll say, hey, we think you're going to get somewhere between these two numbers. And that's a high and a low end. And so in general, that's 25 % of what we call the building value. So subtract land out, right? Now you're just left with the building on that lot. That's what you get to depreciate. So if you've got an $800,000 building, maybe you paid a million, land is worth $200,000, subtract that out. So you got $800,000. And again, you'll get a range saying maybe you'll get somewhere between $180,000 up to $300,000 in depreciation. If you like the way that looks, the fee makes sense, and you owe taxes, and you can use it this year, then you proceed with that cost segregation study. And usually, I would say with our firm within two to four weeks, we give somebody a report. So we make it very simple. That report justifies the big deduction. So if somebody ever got audited, which is a pretty rare occurrence anyway, they would be able to explain, here's why we did this. This is legitimate. We worked with a firm that has real engineers that did this. And it gives the CPA what they need. know, CPA is not just going to say, okay, yeah, I'm going to give you a $200,000 deduction for fun. They have to feel comfortable because their signature is going on it. So it's our report that demonstrates to the CPA and to the IRS, this is a legitimate deduction within the tax code and this will stand up to an audit. Jason Hull (08:25) Cool, because we got to make sure that IRS is okay with this. I don't really care if the IRS is happy, but I don't want to be on their bad side either. I just want them to leave me alone. That's really, I think, the goal, right? Got it. Okay. So your company helps with this, right? CSSI. Yes. Okay, got it. Dan Boyd (08:28) Absolutely. If they're not happy, nobody's happy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, as long as they're well, I just want them to be happy with you. We're not unhappy with you. Yes. Jason Hull (08:53) Okay, so, are there different rules? I had mentioned at the beginning, maybe, I don't know, but I thought some rules that kind of change with depreciation and how it works, just recently. Dan Boyd (09:05) They did. Yeah. So in ⁓ this most recent one big beautiful bill, there was a change that brought back what's called 100 percent bonus depreciation. So what does that mean? There's some misunderstandings and sometimes people assume that means you can deduct 100 percent of the building value. That's not the case. So I said there's stuff in a property that wears out fast and there's stuff that wears out slow. So the IRS has categories for that that they call useful lives. So there's a probably the most common categories that ⁓ Property managers are gonna need to be aware of are the five-year useful life and that's roughly the stuff inside the units and then there's the 15-year useful life That's the site improvement. So that's a parking lot. That's landscaping that signage. That's a fence. That's a pool Those kind of things the things on the common ground, right? so what that means is if something has a five-year useful life, you depreciate it over five years. So automatically, that's faster than 27 and a half. So that's accelerated depreciation, because we accelerated it from 27 and a half years to five years, and from 27 and a half to 15 years. Bonus depreciation lights a fire underneath those two categories. And so rather than waiting five years or 15 years, you get some percent of that value right now. So if we're in 100 % bonus year, it means you get 100 % of the five-year value and 100 % of the 15-year value right away. And so ⁓ if we just say, you know what, cabinets, countertops, crown molding, that kind of thing, swimming pools, parking lots, that's all gonna be accelerated. So if you had $500,000 in those two categories, rather than waiting five years or 15 years to get that money, you bonus depreciate it and get all of it this year. ⁓ We just came out of what's called a sun setting bonus period. so from 2022 to 20, I'm sorry, from 2017 to 2022, people got 100 % bonus depreciation. So if your property was placed in service as a rental in those years, it gets 100 % bonus period. Doesn't matter when you do the cost segregation. But in 2023, it started to go down 20%. So 2023 was an 80 % bonus year. 2024 was a 60 % bonus year. And the first 19 days of 2025 are a 40 % bonus year. So 100 % bonus depreciation kicks in on inauguration day. So they made it retroactive to the inauguration day. So if you bought Dan Boyd (11:27) 2023 was an 80 % bonus year, 2024 was a 60 % bonus year, and the first 19 days of 2025 are a 40 % bonus year. So 100 % bonus depreciation kicks in on Inauguration Day. So they made it retroactive to the Inauguration Day. So if you bought a property and placed it in service on January 20th or later, you get 100 % bonus depreciation. Jason Hull (11:54) Cool. Okay. Right. So thank you, Donald. All right. So why should investors that are wanting to invest more care about cost segregation? Why should they be paying attention to this? Because I think this plays into their strategy, but some may not get it. Dan Boyd (11:56) Yeah. Great question. So the time value of money, if I could give you $100 today or $1 a day for the next 100 years, it's worth way more to you to get that money today because you can invest it, right? There's no inflation, yada, yada, yada. So the more tax deductions or reductions you can get early on, the more you're able to free up your capital and deploy it to grow your portfolio, right? to repair your property, to increase rent, to pay down debt. And that money is worth a lot more to you today. So if you can get 25 % of your building value back now, rather than in a quarter century, why wouldn't you do that? Jason Hull (12:56) Got it, okay. Let's do a quick word from our sponsor, Cover Pest. And then we'll continue. Cover Pest is the easy and seamless way to add on demand pest control to your resident benefits package for your property management company. Residents love the simplicity of submitting a service request and how affordable it is compared to traditional pest control options. Investors love knowing that their property is kept pest free and property managers love getting their time back and making more revenue per door. Simply put, Cover Pest is the easiest way to handle pest control issues at all your properties to learn more and to get special DoorGrow pricing, visit coverpest.com/doorgrow All right, cool. Check out Cover Pest. All right, so back to this idea of investors leveraging cost segregation. So this is going to allow them basically more money now means you can take that money, deploy it in more effective ways now to grow it so you can have more of it later, right? Is kind of the idea. Dan Boyd (13:59) Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ If you owe taxes right now and you own rental property, as long as you're going to hold that property for even just two or three years, you are going to make more money by taking more depreciation, reducing your tax burden, freeing up capital to reinvest and make some rate of return. And so as long as you can invest that money and earn a return, then you're going to benefit from doing this. Jason Hull (14:06) Yeah, same reason I file an extension every year. I wanna delay the IRS having access to any of the funds so that I can do more stuff with it before they get their hands on it, right? So more money faster and... Dan Boyd (14:38) There you go. Jason Hull (14:42) IRS later. Yeah, that's the ideal goal. Cool. So how do they make sure that they're making good decisions around all of this? This is where a company like CSSI comes in, I would imagine. Dan Boyd (14:54) Yes, so we see ourselves as consultants. so in fact, just probably an hour ago, I was on the phone with somebody who couldn't benefit from a cost segregation. And it was really because he didn't owe enough in taxes. And I said, you just don't need this deduction right now because you don't owe anything. And so you'll be paying for the service to get a huge deduction. And that's great. But it only makes sense to have a big deduction if you have a lot of income. And so our job is to look at somebody's scenario and say, here's what we think your deduction will be, let's match that up with what's your tax liability? Do you owe a lot this year? Or maybe are you going to owe next year? Should you wait? And then how long are you going to own this property? Let's do the math and figure out, does this investment make sense? And so that's kind of the big one. My two litmus tests are, do you owe taxes? And are you going to own this property long enough to invest this? And the reason for that is when you take depreciation on a property, That's kind of the big one. My two litmus tests are, you owe taxes? And are you going to own this property long enough to invest this? And the reason for that is when you take depreciation on a property, whatever you take out, you owe back when you sell the property. That's called recapture. And so oftentimes people are afraid of that. But I think the best way to think of that is like a loan, right? The IRS loans you that depreciation. And then when you sell the property, you owe the depreciation back. But they don't charge you interest on that. And so Wouldn't it be great to take a $100,000 loan with 0 % interest, invest it for as long as you own the property? And then when you sell the property, you give the loan amount back and you keep whatever you made on that investment. Jason Hull (16:15) Okay, so how long is long enough to own the property then? Dan Boyd (16:25) It depends on your rate of return. And so if I give somebody, let's say, $100,000, and they can make 7.5%, as long as they pay less than $7,500 to get the cost segregation study, they're going to make money. And so that's usually how I do that math. And it's different for everybody. And sometimes they're not sure. And so I'll kind of walk them through. my tendency is to be a little cautious with it and say, if you're not sure, I don't want you to get into a situation where you're going end up owing more than you got in terms of your reduction in taxes and any benefit out of this. But I'd say a very comfortable break-even period is three years. Jason Hull (17:07) Okay, got it. Okay, so if they own it for at least three years, then it may make sense. They should probably be considering it. Especially if they owe taxes and they haven't figured out how to zero those out. Dan Boyd (17:12) Yeah, absolutely. And if they plan to. Yeah, exactly. Because once you pay taxes, money's gone forever. You can't get it back. No, not at all. And if you, you know, if people are worried like, I don't want the...
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DGS 313: Profits Hidden in Plain Sight with Brian Seidensticker
10/31/2025
DGS 313: Profits Hidden in Plain Sight with Brian Seidensticker
As a property manager, how much do you know about tax liens and tax deeds? How much do your investors know? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Brian Seidensticker, Founder of Tax Sale Resources and Mountain North Capital, to discuss how property managers can help their investors buy more properties using tax lien strategies. You’ll Learn [01:40] From Aerospace Engineering to Buying Tax Liens [06:46] How Property Managers Can Benefit [16:06] How to Learn The Ins and Outs of Tax Lien Investing [23:29] The Biggest Questions and Pitfalls Quotables “Property managers, the savviest ones, they're building up their own portfolios, not just helping everybody else.” “Property managers… what gets them access to more deals is just being connected to more investors.” “This might crack open a new idea for them, another growth channel that they could leverage as a resource for their investors.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) This might crack open a new idea for them, another growth channel that they could leverage as a resource for their investors. All right, I'm Jason Hull, the CEO and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, improving pricing, increasing profits, simplifying operations. We run the world's leading property management mastermind to help them grow. DoorGrow, we believe good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market. and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. So my guest today is Brian Seidensticker, founder of Mount North Capital and Tax Sale Resources, one of the nation's top platforms tracking over 8,000 tax sales and over 1.5 million distressed properties each year. Brian is a leading expert in tax lien and deed investing and shares how property managers can turn overlooked tax delinquent properties into major portfolio growth opportunities. Brian, welcome to the show. Thanks Jason, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Cool. So before we get into the topic at hand, let's rewind and tell everybody how did you get into entrepreneurism and how did you get into these businesses that you now have? Brian Seidensticker (01:37) Thanks Jason, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Yeah, well, I think it's an interesting story, although I'm slightly biased because I did not grow up with aspirations of being in this space or doing what I do today, although I love what I do now. I think the probably the first sign of, maybe the standard corporate. Jason Hull (01:55) I think it's an interesting story. sign of hey maybe the standard corporate Brian Seidensticker (02:14) atmosphere isn't necessarily for me came when I was ⁓ still in school. Got my first internship in the aerospace industry, which is where I spent the first 10 years of my career ⁓ at Honeywell, of all places, in design engineering and ⁓ thought it was exactly what I wanted to do, but I didn't know much about, you know, engineering and what was actually involved. ⁓ Jason Hull (02:14) atmosphere isn't necessary for me came when I was still in school got my first internship in the aerospace industry which is where I spent first 10 years of my career at Honeywell of all places and design engineering and thought it was exactly what I wanted to do but I didn't know much about you know engineering and what was actually all Brian Seidensticker (02:40) And that is the first time that I kind of realized, okay, maybe maybe this is not what I had in mind. was, you know, it's odd, you know, ironically enough, not a whole lot different than what I do today. I stared at a computer all day and that is not what I had envisioned for engineering. was assuming it was going to be much more hands on and touching things. And that was probably the first time where I called it my earliest twenties crisis, where I was like, Oh, you know, I'm three, four years into this. Is this what I want to do for the rest of my life? Jason Hull (02:40) And that is the first time that I kind of realized, okay, maybe this is not what I had in mind. was, ironically enough, not a whole lot different than what I do today. I stared at a computer all day and that is not what I had envisioned for engineering. was assuming to be much more hands-on and touching things. That was probably the first time where I call it my earliest 20s crisis, where I was like, whoa, I'm three, four years into this. Is this what I want to do for the rest of my life? Brian Seidensticker (03:10) and ultimately decided, well, I'm this far along. Starting over was more terrifying. so, you know, go ahead and finish it out. I was I was lucky in the fact that ⁓ within a year out of school, I did land what I consider a dream job and did love what I did for for quite a while. ⁓ I was basically what they call systems engineer for missile defense programs, working on Jason Hull (03:10) And ultimately decided, well, I'm this far along. Starting over was more terrifying. And so, you know, go ahead and finish it out. I was, I was lucky in the fact that within a year out of school, I did land what I consider a dream job and did love what I did for quite a while. I was basically what we call systems engineer for Missed Defense Programs, working on, you Brian Seidensticker (03:39) you know, programs that essentially mimic ⁓ weapons of other countries. And then our systems would also practice shooting them down, which all sounds really, really cool. Right. And it was cool. ⁓ But my my second realization came later when I kind of well, I went on vacation for six weeks and I had a lot of anxiety about being gone that long of how much I would be behind. And when I got back, I realized, you know, how Jason Hull (03:40) programs that essentially mimic weapons of other countries and then our systems would also practice shooting them down, which all sounds really, cool. Right. was cool. But my second realization came later when I kind of, well, I went on vacation for six weeks and I had a lot of anxiety about being gone that long and how much I would be behind and when I got back I realized how Brian Seidensticker (04:08) little I was behind. Jason Hull (04:08) little I was behind. Brian Seidensticker (04:10) was basically stepped right back into it like I'd never been gone. And that was a realization for me that, you know, I'm spending a lot of my time on a hamster wheel unknowingly. And then eventually came to the conclusion that I've got two years of banging my head against the wall with government contracts, right? Anybody has dealt with that red tape associated with that for what equated to about two minutes of really cool. that those those just didn't equate for me as being worth it. Jason Hull (04:10) and Yeah. ⁓ Brian Seidensticker (04:37) Right. And that's not to say, you know, I loved what I did at certain cases that company I worked for was fantastic. It just wasn't necessarily for me. And that was where I kind of realized, OK, I got to find something else. Now, I wish I could say the next day I gave my notice, dropped the mic and left. That's certainly not how real life works. ⁓ But I did start getting into, well, originally fix and flip houses. Jason Hull (04:49) and and Brian Seidensticker (05:01) And this is in 06, 07 timeframe and ended up upside down in one of those. were flipping properties in Montana. And I guess most people know what happened in 07, 08. Luckily, it wasn't a detrimental thing and I didn't have too many houses, but was upside down. And so I've got a notice of a potential taxing on that property. Now, the odd thing is that Jason Hull (05:06) and ended up upside down in one of those. were flipping properties in Montana and I guess most people know what happened in 07, 08. Luckily it wasn't a detrimental thing and I didn't have too many houses but it was upside down and so I got a notice of a potential taxing on that property. Now the odd thing is that because the way that Montana statutes are at the time, Brian Seidensticker (05:30) because the way that Montana statutes are at the time where every potential investor had to send you a certified letter, I didn't just get one notice from the county. Probably would have never thought twice about it, but I got 20, 30, 40 of these certified letters all saying roughly the same thing. And that's really what triggered me to go, what is this all about? guess I'm a curious person by nature and started researching this whole tax lien certificate. Jason Hull (05:34) where every potential investor had to send you a certified letter. I didn't just get one notice from the county. I would have never thought twice about it. But I got 20, 30, 40 of these certified letters all saying roughly the same thing. And that's really what triggered me to go, what is this all about? Because I'm a curious person by nature. I started researching this whole tax lien certificate enigma at the time. And lo and behold, was a whole industry. Brian Seidensticker (05:59) enigma at the time. And lo and behold, it was it was a whole industry. There's legitimate large businesses and banks that are are doing this. And that's what really steered me in the direction of shifting from a fixed flip to buying tax liens. And that was really the introduction to the space that we do a lot in today. So I guess a little bit on the journey of how I eventually became an entrepreneur ⁓ and how I was introduced to this space. ⁓ Jason Hull (06:04) legitimate large businesses and banks that are doing this. And that's what really steered me in the direction of shifting from a pay-per-fit to buying tax leaps. And that was really the introduction to this space that we do a lot in today. So was, I guess, a little bit on the journey of how I eventually became an entrepreneur and how I was introduced to this space. Brian Seidensticker (06:28) I guess there's a whole line between today and then, but that's kind of the origin story anyway, Jason. Jason Hull (06:28) I guess there's a whole lot in between today and then, but that's kind of the origin story. Got it, yeah, interesting background. So from aerospace, doing engineering, to real estate fix and flips, and now you're in software and technology and doing some other cool stuff. So tell us a little bit about how can this benefit property managers? Let's get into this idea. Yeah, so. Brian Seidensticker (06:57) Yeah. So I think when it comes to property managers specifically, whether they're working with investors, to acquire on behalf of the investor and then they're operating that property or they're maybe managing that portfolio themselves. I really what tax sales have two different avenues, there's tax liens and then there's tax deeds. The tax deeds are what are sold at the end of a ⁓ foreclosure process for the Jason Hull (07:16) Deeds are what are sold at the end of a proposal process for the liens that never end up getting repaid. They go through a proposal process very similar to the mortgage proposal closure, although a lot longer timeline. And most of those are in areas where property managers or let's say a segment of property managers, you can get great. ⁓ Brian Seidensticker (07:23) liens that never end up getting repaid. go through a foreclosure process very similar to a mortgage foreclosure, although a lot longer timeline. ⁓ And most of those are in areas where property managers or I'd say a segment of property managers, ⁓ you can get great, ⁓ the great Jason Hull (07:43) great rental options, especially if you're in the avenue of fixing rent. We work with several folks that buy properties, fix them up Brian Seidensticker (07:43) rental options, especially if you're in the avenue of fixing rent. We work with several folks that buy properties, ⁓ fix them up and with intent to rent them. And so if you're looking for an avenue of acquiring properties, right, and it may shift here in the next couple of years, we'll see what comes to reality. ⁓ But it's been an avenue of acquiring properties for the past 10 years where I think most people found it to be Jason Hull (07:53) with intent to rent them. And so if you're looking for an avenue of acquiring properties, it may shift here in the next couple of years, and we'll see what comes to reality. But it's been an avenue of acquiring properties for the past 10 years where I think most people found it to be pretty... Brian Seidensticker (08:12) pretty hard to find any sort of consistent ⁓ deals at a smaller scale of acquiring to build that portfolio over time. That's really probably the biggest impact too. Jason Hull (08:12) pretty hard to find any sort of deals at a smaller scale requiring to build that footloid over time. That's really probably the biggest impact to those folks. Now on the flip side, as a data point, one of the quickest ways of getting in trouble, right, is if properties that are owned outright, and we see this all the time, that are owned outright, you don't have that, you know, tacking of... Brian Seidensticker (08:23) to those folks. Now, on the flip side, as a data point, I think one of the quickest ways of getting ⁓ in trouble, is if properties that are owned outright, and we see this all the time, that are owned outright, you don't have that ⁓ escrow Jason Hull (08:41) best grow account that's making sure those taxes get paid and that people aren't paying those on their own behalf and they can end up in a tax outproposure unknowingly. Now, most people catch on, but we have Brian Seidensticker (08:41) account that's making sure those taxes get paid. And if people aren't paying those on their own behalf, then they can end up in a tax out foreclosure unknowingly. Now, most people catch them, but we have seen Jason Hull (08:51) seen properties that make it all the way through and at the end of the day, end up essentially losing a property due to these unpaid taxes and ignoring notices over a couple years. It seems like impossible, but it happens, right? And so it's making sure that property managers and just investors in general understand. Brian Seidensticker (08:51) properties that make it all the way through. at the end of the day, end up essentially losing a property due to these unpaid taxes and ignoring notices over a couple of years, which seems like impossible, but it happens. And so it's making sure that property managers and just investors in general understand, hey, Jason Hull (09:09) Hey, gotta keep monitoring, keep paying those property taxes even after the escrow is done and you have the property paid Brian Seidensticker (09:09) you got to keep monitoring and keep paying those property taxes even after the escrow is done and you have the property paid off. Jason Hull (09:15) off. Yeah, a lot of people get confused during the sale process and think, oh, it's all taken care of. Yeah, well for so many of us it is, right? If you have a mortgage on your house, it's all taken care of, right? It's when that mortgage is paid off, it's a happy day, but now you've got a few more things you've got to monitor you've never had to worry before. Yeah, got it. So, Brian Seidensticker (09:22) Yeah, well for so many of us it is, right? If you have a mortgage on your house, it's all taken care of, right? It's when that mortgage gets paid off, it's a happy day, but now you've got a few more things you've got to monitor you've never had to worry before. Jason Hull (09:37) Yeah, property managers, the savviest ones, they're building up their own portfolios, not just helping everybody else. And so they're investors too. And so this could be a nice channel or avenue for them to find some additional deals or properties. So what do they need to know in order to get started with working with tax liens or tax deeds and finding property? Well, I think the biggest thing to understand is really how the sales are. Brian Seidensticker (10:02) Well, I think the biggest thing to understand is really how the sales occur in your area. Every state has a slightly different process, slightly different statutes, ⁓ and even within that state, counties can interpret those statutes slightly differently. And so the number one thing that I always recommend is be smart and as in talk to an attorney that is familiar with the sale process in your specific area. ⁓ It's an Jason Hull (10:08) state has a slightly different process, slightly different statutes, ⁓ and even within that state counties can interpret those statutes slightly differently. And so the number one thing that I always recommend is be smart and as in talk to an attorney that is familiar with the sale process in your specific area. ⁓ It's an unregulated space, meaning you don't have to have a license. There's nothing you have to do to participate. Brian Seidensticker (10:30) unregulated space, meaning you don't have to have a license. There's nothing you have to do to participate. If you have got Jason Hull (10:37) you've got capital, can go jump on one of the auction platforms and start buying. But that's also a quick way of maybe getting into a property you shouldn't have. you had spoken to an attorney that knows what they're doing, they might have advised you on submitting those pit holes to a lawyer. So that would be mine and one recommendation is start there. Now, if you're not quite ready, Brian Seidensticker (10:37) capital, you can go jump on one of the auction platforms and start buying. But that's also a quick way of maybe getting into a property you shouldn't have. And if you had spoken to an attorney that knows what they're doing, they might have advised you on many of those pit holes to avoid. And so that would be my number one recommendation ⁓ is start there. Now, if you're not quite ready, I think the next best thing, in my opinion, is we do, I do interview ⁓ Jason Hull (11:00) think the next best thing in my opinion is we do, I do interview. Brian Seidensticker (11:03) attorneys in different states. And so if you don't want to pay the attorney fees to figure some of that out, ⁓ it's free on our site. You don't have to pay anything. Just go to our website and there's a resources section you can filter down by the state that you're interested in. And if I've interviewed an attorney and asked a lot of those questions, it can be a free hour or two of that attorney's time ⁓ answering those basic questions for anybody that wants to start there. Jason Hull (11:04) attorneys in different states and so if you don't want to pay the attorney fees to figure some of that out it's free on our site you don't have to pay anything just go to our website resources section you can filter down by the state that you're interested in and if I've interviewed an attorney and asked a lot of those questions it can be a free hour or two of that attorney's time answering those basic questions for anybody that wants to start there Brian Seidensticker (11:28)...
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DGS 312: Optimizing Your Business for Success: Insights from Multi-Billion-Dollar Entrepreneurs
10/24/2025
DGS 312: Optimizing Your Business for Success: Insights from Multi-Billion-Dollar Entrepreneurs
Do you ever look at other property management companies and wonder how they were able to grow and scale to thousands of doors? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull share insights they gleaned from successful founders and CEOs of multi-billion-dollar companies. You’ll Learn [00:59] Execution is More Important Than Good Ideas [11:51] Narrowing Your Focus to What You’re Best At [19:41] Ask Your Target Market [30:33] Everyone Should be Focused on One Goal Quotables “There's no shortage of ideas. It's execution that's the hard part.” “Everyone thinks… if I scale, I've got to do more. And actually, you have to do less to be able to scale…” “A lot of times we get caught up in creating systems, inventory, things that actually cause waste or over-optimizing each individual department or each individual step, but it actually reduces the overall goal of optimizing.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) a lot of times we get caught up in creating systems, inventory, things that actually cause waste or over optimizing each individual department but it actually reduces the overall goal of optimizing for making more money. All right, I'm Jason Hull. This is Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate. high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. Okay, so we recently kind of split paths, right? so that you could go learn some stuff and I could go learn some stuff. So we usually do everything together. So, but we had, which I love, but we had two really cool opportunities. One I was very much more interested in than the other, because I was learning about AI, which I've been geeking out on. And then you went off to go to a profit event. And was really cool. We went to the first day together, but the second and third day I was in. AI workshop, geeking out with some of the best on AI. Cool. I would love to hear what you took away from this event and what you learned, and maybe you can share that. I wanted to go over my notes on one speaker in particular. I was kind of going back and forth between two of them and I think this is the one that I landed on. at a different date I could talk about the other one because you weren't there for either one of them. But on the second day, I'm just gonna call this like notes from a billionaire and not just a billionaire but a multi. Billionaire and not just multi-billionaire but someone who is the founding member and CEO of I think they said they grew it to like it was a ridiculous number like 740 billion or it was a big it was a big number it was a very large impressive number and he was so nice I actually had a conversation with him before I even realized who he was I was chatting with him I wish I would have known Like I recognized the name and then I saw him speak and I went man. I would've asked him a different question So I'll do a quick little intro and then I'll kind of share my notes from what I wrote down while he was presenting so intro his name is Jeff Hoffman and For those of you that don't know the name Like I didn't know the name before as soon as I say the name of the company you'll instantly go. okay No, know the company The company is Priceline. So he is one of the founding members of Priceline. They started it and scaled it to many hundreds of billions of dollars. This is some of the advice that he had shared with us in his Speech because I got to hear him get up and speak and present to the entire room. So The first thing that I wrote down I Don't know if he can be credited with saying this or if he was quoting someone else But he said it so I wrote it down because it resonated very much was ideas are welcome here But execution is worshiped And I think that's really powerful because how many times do we all have this great idea, right? my God, I had this idea. my God, I had this idea. my God, we should do this. We should do that. What if we did this? There's no shortage of ideas. It's execution that's the hard part. It's turning an amazing idea into something and bringing that to life and bringing it to fruition. So I love it so much. That's good. Yeah. too much attention a lot of times on the idea and the planning and all this stuff, but actually executing and actually getting something done, that's really all that matters. It doesn't matter. You can have a million ideas. If there's no execution, then who cares? So, okay. So I think my mom is a great example of this. Everyone, think mostly everyone knows Elf on the Shelf. So my mom, before Elf on the Shelf was a thing, she created it. She just didn't do anything with it. She only used it like for me and my brother, but we had an elf that would come and visit and kind of keep an eye on us. And he would do fun things and he would pop around to different places in the house. So every time in the morning we would wake up and he would be in a different place or sometimes he would be doing like an activity. He'd be like baking or, you know, riding a bike or whatever. And it was so funny because when you look back on it, I went, mom, like, that was off on the shelf and it's like multi-million dollar company. And she went, yeah, I wish I knew that. But she was just trying to do something fun for her kids. So she had taken that idea because it was, it was a great idea. And she executed on it, but she never brought it public. Can you imagine what would have happened if the execution was done on a larger scale? So she'll probably hate the fact that I'm calling her out on that. But I think that'll be her. multi-million dollar missed story. Yeah. Yeah. So some of the questions that Jeff had asked when we're thinking about ideas, because we all have ideas. Some of them are good. Some of them are questionable. And some of them we can say like, yeah, that was a dud. So this is kind of a framework to take you through to figure out, is this worth executing on? One is. Is this a problem? So you have to ask yourself, is this an actual problem? Like what you're doing, does this solve some sort of problem? And then bonus points if it's a big problem, right? So if we go back to the story of Priceline, many, many years ago, those kiosks that are in every airport that you can just check in on, you do not need to go and talk to a gate agent or a ticketing agent. They didn't used to exist. You used to have to go stand in line and wait forever to get your ticket and your boarding pass and perhaps give somebody physically give somebody your bag and a lot of times people would miss their flight because the line was so so so long and you never knew ahead of time like is this gonna be a 10 minute line or is this gonna be a two hour line so people would miss their flight And at one point, he turned around and he was in the airport, turned around, looked at the line and went, wow, this is such a crazy long line. And he decided, I'm going to start interviewing people right here and right now. And he went around asking people individually, how long have you been waiting? Wow, what happens if you miss your flight? Wow, what would you do? Would you think it would be valuable or beneficial if there was some sort of service where you didn't need to talk to the gate agent? And people were bidding on it. They were bidding. They were like, I'll give you $10 if you can get me my ticket without talking to the gate agent. And then somebody else will go, no, forget $10. I'll give you $50 for that. And somebody else will go, oh, I must get there today. I will give you $70 to get there today. People were bidding on it in line. So he realized, one, there's a problem, but actually it's a big problem. So he knew he was on to something right there. The second question is, is there a better way to do this? So is there a better way to check in for your flight than waiting in line and talking to a gate agent? Yeah, there sure is. It just hadn't been invented yet. But is that the best way to do it? No, absolutely not. So there was a better way to do something. And the third is, is there a value equation, which all that means is would somebody buy this? And he knew that one, he had a problem and it was a big problem. Two, there was a better way to do it. And three, people would definitely pay for it because people were bidding on it while he was standing in line. People were like, wait, do you know something we don't know? Like, I will give you money if you can just get me on the front line because I need to get on this flight. So hence how Priceline was born. So those are three questions that you can kind of ask yourself. If you're going, okay, I have this idea, should I? Should I do this? Should I act on it? Should I create something with this? Yeah. Seems pretty simple. think a lot of times we get really disconnected. you know, we study stuff, we learn stuff, we think we know, but when you actually go talk to your target audience and do a little bit of product research interview, you know, you can find out a lot of things that problems they have, things they need, and actually connect with, you know, what you're wanting to sell them may not actually work. So yeah, I think that'd be super helpful. All right. So then he kind of gave tips on, well, if you are looking to seriously, massively scale a company because it's not, let's face it, not every company gets to a million, certainly not even to a billion and absolutely not to hundreds of billions of dollars. Right. So These are tips that he had given the room in order to help you scale. And everyone thinks, you know, if I scale, I've got to do more. And actually you have to do less to be able to scale at that large of a size. he said, find your gold metal product or service. So for them, if you remember, if you would go on Priceline when it first launched, there was different tabs. the top right you could book a flight you could book a hotel room you could book a cruise you could get a rental car you do a vacation package like they did all the things yeah and they were scaling but it wasn't to the size that they wanted to get to and they went okay if we only did one thing what would it be like what are we the best at the world at and for them it was hotel rooms so they said okay It's not that we have to cut the other stuff. It's just that we're not going to market it. We're not going to advertise it. We're not going to talk about it. We're not going to put any money, time, or energy into that service. It's just there. But what we will do is we'll go all out on hotel rooms. because they were the best in class at hotel rooms. So they didn't cut the other things out. Go on there now, you'll still see, but their bread and butter is hotel rooms. So the other things are still available. It's just that they never, if you look at any Priceline commercials, you'll never see anything other than hotel rooms. Why do think that is? Because they're marketing what they're the best in class at. So that is their top service. Next is find your gold medal talent. So what was their gold medal talent? Any guesses? Don't cheat, don't lie. I know the answer because I was there. I don't know. I would imagine it's related to hotel rooms. So their gold medal talent are probably the best hotels. It was their algorithm. Okay. for connecting people to hotels. So their algorithm was their talent. They had a talent in that. What is Amazon's? Shipping. Shipping. It's delivery. So if you remember, Amazon didn't start selling everything on the planet. It started as a book store. That's it. They only sold books. And what I didn't know is that when this whole internet thing was blowing up. were three companies that were kind of becoming rising to the top all at the same time. It was Priceline with Jeff Hoffman and Partners. There was eBay. His name was Jeff and Pierre. Jeff and Pierre. And then there was Amazon. And that's Jeff Bezos. So somebody had asked him, what does it take to be successful in this internet thing? And he said, just find somebody. who's a really good Jeff. They all had the best, they were the best in class at something and then they had the best in class at a specific talent. So Amazon, they got fantastic at shipping and they only did books. And Jeff Bezos said, you know, when we get, I'm only doing books right now. And then when we get to a certain size with books, Then I want to branch out and then we'll do everything. But I don't want to do everything first right now. I just want to build our name and our reputation solely on books. Why? Because they were amazing at shipping. And now anytime that you buy something online, usually what's the first thought you think? Amazon probably has that. Why? Because you know they'll ship it. And then you need to shape your brand. That's the third piece of this. you need to ask yourself what question are you the answer to? So for them, I need a hotel room. Where do I go? right, priceline. Or, they did a lot of this too, I want a $200 hotel room but I don't want to $200 on it, I only want to spend, you know, $100 or $80. Where do I go? Priceline. So shape your brand around that. And then you've got to, in that arena, you've got to find your brand asset. So everyone goes, know, why should I work with you? I just watched a Jeremy Miner video, like at his live event, and he had a microphone and he went up to someone in the audience and he said, hey, why would someone work with you? I've seen these videos. And he let them answer. And he goes, mm-hmm. Okay, and then he goes to the next audience answer and he goes, why would someone work with you? And he does it again and he goes, okay, so all of you guys really sound the same. You're in wildly different industries and companies, but you all sound the same. Yeah. Right? So you can't sound the same as everybody else and expect to stand out. So if you could only give one reason that somebody would work with you, what would that one reason be? It's not about all the reasons, it's about the one reason and that shapes your brand. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was really good. If you aren't sure, you don't know, if you're like, I don't know, there's a lot of reasons why somebody wouldn't work with us. Ask your customers. Yeah, like why did they pick you? Why? What is the one reason? Don't just say why did they pick you because then they'll go, because of X, Y and Z. Great, was it X or was it Y or was it Z? What is the one main reason that you decided to work with us? And do that ask 10 people. If you don't have 10 people, then keep selling until you can get 10 people. Because that data will tell you what is it that your customers have found in your messaging even though maybe you didn't do a great job at delivering it. So I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, that's good. They talk about broadcasting versus what they call narrow casting So this is focusing on the right people not just any person Because for every product for every service for every brand There are the right people and Then there's everybody else So if you're trying to close every deal, it's almost like an impossible game Who do you target? Will we target people? Everyone. People? Really? Who do you target? Well, I work with real estate investors. Well, geez, okay. There's only like hundreds of millions of those in the world. Which ones do you target? Yeah. Right? So some of this goes into our client-centric mission statement when we take our clients through their company culture stuff. But we want to get really, really clear on who are my people. Not just who are people that could buy this. What are the right people to buy this? To work with me, to choose this, right? There's a difference. Right. I mean, this makes sense. know, yeah, you got to really be specific because if you target everybody, you target nobody. Then then you're just more noise in the marketplace. So if you want to be, you know, like we're pretty niche at DoorGrow, we target long term residential property management companies in the U.S. Like that's our target audience that do third party property management. So that's our... Do we get other types of clients? Sure, but that's our bread and butter. That's who we focus on and that's very specific. Those are the people we know we can help. And I'd say we're the best in the world at that. yeah. Right. So I think Sharan calls it a dog whistle. Right? Speak to your people and anyone who isn't your people, they won't hear it. It's not for you. Go ahead, I don't want you to hear it. Just the dogs, Just the right ones. They'll hear it. Okay. This I liked a lot. He said, focus on your second slide customer. So find your yeses instead of overcoming nos. Every sales training in the world goes, let's overcome objections. Let's overcome no. Let's work a no into a yes. Let's see what we can do to turn it around. Overcome objections. No, don't overcome objections. Just find the yeses. Second slide. Yeah, so you know when you have like a whole presentation prepared. Yeah, and The example he gave is he said he went out with one of his sales reps And there was like a 20 slide presentation that they that was like their pitch deck, right? so he spent the day with a sales guy and the first meeting they went to He got through all 20 slides and the woman was like, yeah, this sounds really good. I'm gonna think about it I think we need to go back to you. like, yeah, yeah, like it wasn't a solid yes, because she didn't commit, she didn't sign up. But she was open to it. She's like, yeah, let me think about this. Like, let me take it up to management. We'll do something. So he got out of that meeting and he said to the sales rep, said, how do you think that went? Sales rep was super proud. He went, yeah, that was a great pitch. She's definitely going to buy. Like, she's going to come back around. Like, that's a deal that'll close. It's like in the pipelines. about to close. Jeff said, yeah, I just didn't say anything. It's like, I just didn't say anything. I'm like, I'm not going to skew it. I just want the data, right? So he goes into another sales pitch, same sales rep. Slide two out of 20, two. They look at each other and went, oh my God, you're exactly what I needed. We're ready. And the sales rep was like, well, wait, let me tell you more about the rest. And he's like nudging the guy. He's like, sign them up. They're ready. They don't need more information. They don't need anything else. They're ready to go right now. Stop trying to complete the pitch. It's done. You don't need the other 18 slides. They already said yes, and they said yes on slide two. Find your slide two yeses. Don't try. to keep on going, don't try to turn the nose and do yes, don't overcome their objections, find your slide two customers. So what they actually did, this I thought was so interesting. This lit up my brain because I like data so Okay, I'm going to pause you. So nice little hook. Now we're going to go to our sponsor and...
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DGS 311: Taking control of your Business by building Deeper Relationships
10/17/2025
DGS 311: Taking control of your Business by building Deeper Relationships
We are living in a post-trust era. Trust is at an all-time low, and people are more on guard than ever. How does this impact the property management industry? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Darryl Stickel of Trust Unlimited to talk all about building and maintaining trust. You’ll Learn [01:30] The Foundations of Building Trust [06:51] Where Uncertainty Comes From and How to Eliminate it [11:37] The Golden Bridge Formula [21:27] The Role of Vulnerability in Building Trust [31:49] AI and the Post-Trust Era Quotables “Sales and deals happen at the speed of trust.” “Trust is the willingness to be vulnerable when you can't completely predict how someone else is going to behave.” “There's three levers within us as individuals, and those are benevolence, integrity, and ability.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) This is really what property managers sell. They sell trust. They don't really sell property management. Darryl (00:03) Yeah. Jason Hull (00:05) All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we've cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses. We run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. And at DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. And today, I am hanging out with Darryl Stickel of Trust Unlimited. Welcome, Darryl to the DoorGrow Show. Darryl (01:26) Thanks for having me, Jason. It's a pleasure to be here. Jason Hull (01:29) It's great to have you. So I'm really excited about the topic of trust because I talk about this all the time. In fact, one of my most common phrases that I say to clients when talking about sales is that sales and deals happen at the speed of trust. And so I'm excited to get into this. So give us a little bit of background on you and then we'll get into the topic at hand. So tell us a little bit about Darryl and how you sort of Darryl (01:45) They do, yeah. Jason Hull (01:56) arrived at Trust Unlimited. Darryl (01:59) Yeah. So I was born and raised in a small town in Northern British Columbia, Canada, fairly isolated community, harsh winter conditions. And so people learned that they had to pull together and it meant that you needed to look out for your neighbor and that if you could help someone, you should. And so growing up in that background, I had a sense of responsibility to others, desire to be helpful. When I was 17 years old, I was playing hockey in a neighboring community and I was attacked by a fan at the club. And he shattered my helmet, knocked me unconscious. I ended up with a severe concussion and I had a visual impairment. I knew that I was going to become legally blind, which I am now. So my plan had been to think for a living. Jason Hull (02:32) I ended up with a severe concussion. And I had a visual impairment. Hmm. ⁓ Darryl (02:46) And now all of a sudden I had the attention span of a fruit fly and I couldn't think. and so this experience promoted a sense of empathy for me because there were such feelings of, of helplessness and hopelessness. And fast forward a few years and I'm studying psychology and moving towards becoming a clinical psychologist. And people would just come up to me and. Jason Hull (02:52) And so this experience promoted a sense of empathy. I like... Yeah. Darryl (03:08) start telling me their problems. I'd be sitting on a bus and a complete stranger would sit down next to me and say, I'm really having a hard time. And so I wanted to understand why that was happening. And I went and did a master's degree in public administration, worked in native land claims in British Columbia. And they would ask me these sort of deep philosophical questions like, what is self-government or what will the problems look like 50 years after claims are settled? Jason Hull (03:15) So I went to understand why that was happening. And I went to do the master's degree in public administration. I worked in native land claims in British Columbia. They would ask me certain questions like what is self-government? What will the province look like 50 years after claims are settled? The last question they asked me was how do I condescend people who have shafted for over 100 years and should trust us? I thought man, that's Darryl (03:35) The last question they asked me was how do I convince a group of people who have shafted for over a hundred years, they should trust us? I thought, man, that's a good question. So I went to Duke, wrote my doctoral thesis on building trust in hostile environments. Um, had a couple of leading experts in the field of trust on my committee. And when I finished, they said, you know, when you first started, we first came to us, we had a conversation. We agreed too big, too complex. He never solves it. Jason Hull (03:43) So I went to Duke, wrote my doctoral thesis on building trust in hostile environments. Had a couple of leading experts in the field of trust on my committee. And when I finished, said, you know, when you first started, when you first came to us, we had a conversation. We agreed, too big, too complex, you never saw us. Darryl (04:03) We'll give him six months and then he'll come crawling back to us and we'll let him chisel off a little piece of this and that'll be his thesis. I said, six months in, you were so far beyond us, we couldn't help anymore. All we could do was sit and listen. And here we are years later, we think you've solved it. And so I went and worked for McKinsey and Company, a big management consulting firm, and got to start applying the concepts that I'd learned. Jason Hull (04:03) gave him six months to come from the back to us. we just left with a piece of this. would be the thesis. He said six months in, you were so far beyond us, couldn't help it. All we could do was send him us. And here we are years later, we're all sold. And so I went and worked for McKinsey Company, a big management consultant for him. Yeah. Darryl (04:25) And then on the way to a client side, was involved in a car accident, ended up with post-concussion syndrome again, and couldn't work those kinds of hours anymore. So I just started a small company called Trust Unlimited and started helping people better understand what trust was, what it is, how it works, and most importantly, how to build it. Jason Hull (04:36) started helping people better understand what trust was, what it is, how it works, and most importantly how it goes. And that's quite the journey. That's quite the story. And so now this is what your, this is your gig. This is what you focus on. You focus on helping people understand trust. Yeah. Darryl (04:52) Yeah, it's what I've devoted my career and my life to. And so for the last 20 years, I've been helping nonprofits, private sector, public sector, Canadian military got me to help them figure out how to try to build trust with the locals in Afghanistan. Yeah, so I've been trying to help solve problems. Jason Hull (05:10) Well, let's make this one of those opportunities for you to help some people that are listening figure out this challenge of trust. Because trust, really feel like, is fundamental and foundational to any relationship and to sales and to growing a business and all of that. Darryl (05:27) It is. It's so critical for your audience because they need the trust of the property owners, but they also need the trust of the tenants. They act as an intermediary and so they need to be experts at building relationships with others. Jason Hull (05:36) Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I'm sure this is, I don't know if this can be answered in a short time period, but give us an idea of how do we create trust from scratch? How do we make this work? What did you figure out? Darryl (05:56) Yeah, so we start with the definition, trust is the willingness to be vulnerable when you can't completely predict how someone else is going to behave. And that definition has two elements in it. It's got perceived uncertainty and perceived vulnerability. And those actually multiply together to give us a level of perceived risk. So we've got uncertainty times vulnerability gives us a level of perceived risk. We each have a threshold of risk that we can tolerate. Jason Hull (06:03) Okay. Darryl (06:21) If we go beyond that threshold, we don't trust. If we're beneath it, then we do. And so. If we want to understand trust, need to understand where does uncertainty come from? Where do perceptions of vulnerability come from? And how do we take steps to manage those? Because early in a relationship, uncertainty is really high. means we can only tolerate a small range of vulnerability and still fit beneath that threshold. As that relationship gets deeper, the uncertainty declines, the range of vulnerability we can tolerate starts to grow. Jason Hull (06:41) Right. that relationship gets deeper, the uncertainty declines, the range of vulnerability increases. And so really, for your audience, it's going to be about how do I take steps to understand somebody else's uncertainty. Darryl (06:51) And so really for your audience, it's going to be about how do I take steps to understand somebody else's uncertainty? How do I help reduce it? Jason Hull (07:00) What are some typical examples of uncertainty that people might have? Darryl (07:06) Yeah. So uncertainty comes from two places. comes from us as individuals and it comes from the context we're embedded in. And so for owners, their uncertainty is what are the tenants doing? How are they treating the property? Is it going to be well maintained? Are they going to pay on time? And so property managers can help manage that by helping them set up contracts, helping. Jason Hull (07:17) Hmm. Yeah. Darryl (07:31) by reviewing the property on an occasional basis, monitoring behavior patterns for tenants, understanding tenant behavior in a way that most property managers don't have the opportunity to, or property owners don't have the property, because you see a much broader swath of humanity than the typical property owner does. You're more engaged, you're on the ground. And so, Jason Hull (07:35) monitoring behavior patterns for tenants, understanding tenant behavior in way that most property managers... Because you see a much broader swath of humanity than the typical property of the country. You're more engaged, you're on the ground. And so if we start to think about how we reduce uncertainty, uncertainty comes from me and it comes from the context. Well, what are the things that I can do as a property manager to reduce some of this uncertainty? Darryl (07:59) If we start to think about how we reduce uncertainty, uncertainty comes from me and it comes from the context. Well, what are the things that I can do as a property manager to reduce somebody's uncertainty? There's three levers within us as individuals, and those are benevolence, integrity, and ability. Jason Hull (08:18) benevolence you said in integrity what was the last what was the third one ability ability yeah okay got it I got it okay Darryl (08:19) integrity and ability and benevolence is just ability, competence. Yeah. Can I do the job? And so Jason, we, all have the ability to build trust with others. Just some are better than others at it. Those who aren't very good have a lever that they pull and they pull that lever over and over again and just hope it lines up. Those who are better have multiple levers. Those who are really good have multiple levers and they know when to pull which one. And so. Jason Hull (08:37) This one. Hmm. ⁓ So what I do is I walk people through the different levers and help explain how to pull them. So benevolence is just the belief you got my best interest. Darryl (08:54) What I do is I walk people through the different levers and then help explain how to pull them. So benevolence is just the belief you've got my best interest at heart and that you'll act in my best interest. Jason Hull (09:03) Right. Darryl (09:06) So as a property manager, you're thinking about what does the property owner's best interest look like? What does success look like for them? How do I help them get there? Integrity is do I follow through on my promises and do my actions line up with the values that I express? Jason Hull (09:16) integrity is do I follow through on my promises? ⁓ Darryl (09:22) And so what are the both the explicit promises I'm making to people and the implied promises, the things that they're expecting from me. And then ability is, I actually have the competence to do the job? And a lot of times when we pull the ability lever, we make assumptions about what excellence looks like, but we don't include the other person in that conversation. Jason Hull (09:41) Hmm. Okay. Darryl (09:41) So as a property manager, you may think having the right forms in place and, you know, having a scheduled set of routines and you've got an idea of what excellence looks like. But if you actually included your stakeholders in that conversation, you might come up with a different list of things. And that's both the property owner and the tenant. Jason Hull (09:49) scheduled set of routines and you've got an idea of what essence of something. But if you actually included your stakeholders in that conversation, like both the property owner and tenant. Darryl (10:03) So including them in that conversation can be really eye-opening. Jason Hull (10:03) So including them in that conversation could be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah, just making sure you're both on the same page. Darryl (10:09) And then exactly. And we interpret the world through stories. one of the challenges that your audience faces is that they may have a story about what's going on with the property. The owner might have a different story and the tenant might have a third story. And that's where we run into conflict. Jason Hull (10:14) What are the challenges that your audience faces? they may have a story about what's going on. Yeah. Right. And so if we're not active, you know, a lot of times I'll talk to owners and senior executives and I'll tell them about those three levers and they'll say, well, I do all Darryl (10:29) And so if we're not active, you know, a lot of times I'll talk to owners and senior executives and I'll tell them about those three levers and they'll say, well, I do all those things. And my response will always be says who, because if it's me telling you I'm benevolent, Jason, it doesn't carry a lot of freight. You have to actually believe it. Right. So I need to include you in the conversation to understand. Jason Hull (10:42) And my response will always be, says who? Because if it's me telling you about the devil, Jason, going to carry a lot of freight. Right. I need to include you in the conversation to understand what are your best interests? How do I help you be successful? What are your best Darryl (10:56) What are your best interests? How do I help you be successful? What are your values? What are your, what's your understanding of my values and the actions I take? And can I tell a story about each decision I make and how it aligns with my values? Am I transparent about following through on my commitments? Do I say to you, I'm going to check the property every three months or every six months or once a year. Here's how I'm going to do that. Here's how I'm going to monitor. Jason Hull (11:11) Okay. Am I transparent and I follow through on my commitments? Do I say to you, I'm going to check the property every three months or every six months or once a year? Here's how I'm going to do that. Here's how I'm going to monitor it. And then do I follow up with the owner and say, Darryl (11:28) And then do I follow up with the owner and say, as per our agreement or as per my commitment, this is me following up on the promise that I made. Jason Hull (11:31) As for our Okay, so Darryl, I love this. This aligns a lot with a book that I'm writing right now called The Golden Bridge Formula. And this Golden Bridge Formula is something that I've used in creating trust quickly in order to facilitate sales. And it's a formula that I've taught my clients. And I think it aligns really well with this. And the basic formula is, Darryl (11:44) Okay. Okay. Jason Hull (12:00) It's based on the idea that everybody trusts others to follow their own motives, to do what's in their best self-interest. We generally can trust that. And so the Golden Bridge formula is basically in simple form is me sharing my personal why, what drives and motivates me, connecting it to the business and the business's why, and then connecting the business why to the prospects why, or your targets why, like what they want. Darryl (12:07) Okay. Jason Hull (12:26) which means you have to figure out their why first, right? You gotta figure out and ask questions first and then you can share and reveal. You know, once you figure out what they want, you can share and where they wanna go. You can share your motives. so, the more extended version of the formula is personal why, what that means, plus the business why, what that means, which is where we get into the values of the company, stuff like this. And then connect it to the prospects why and what that would mean for them. And this is... Darryl (12:47) right. Jason Hull (12:52) One of my greatest shortcuts for getting somebody that's terrible at sales to do sales in an authentic way and dramatically increase their close rate. Because any objection really always boils down to, I don't trust you. That's really the only true objection in sales. I don't trust your product or your service enough to believe that it's worth the price or that it's actually gonna work or it's gonna benefit me. The one thing people trust is for others to be selfish. Darryl (13:00) Nice. Right. Jason Hull (13:20) They trust people to do what's in their best interest. So if I can share my motivation, my golden bridge, and the actual bridge is the business. The business is this vehicle that gets me what I want and it gets my client what they want, right? And so if I can relate that, it creates this connection where we can both trust each other because if I'm selfish, I am able to help them and I get what I want. And so I'll give you my example. Darryl (13:34) Right. Jason Hull (13:46) personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. And so what that means is I love learning what works and sharing it with other people. I would do that for free for fun. I love paying for it. I take it coaches and mentors and door grow secretly not so secretly exist because I love being able to spend a lot of money on coaches, mentors, programs to be able to learn new stuff that I can turn around and then benefit and share with other entrepreneurs, with my clients. Darryl (14:12) Great. Jason Hull (14:13) And they can trust that if I continue to do that, I'm going to benefit them. DoorGrow...
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DGS 310: Prioritizing Tasks, Reducing Communications, and Increasing Time in Property Management
10/10/2025
DGS 310: Prioritizing Tasks, Reducing Communications, and Increasing Time in Property Management
How often do you say, “I don’t have time?” This is a common excuse we hear from property management business owners and their teams. The truth is, we all have the same amount of time. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the myth of not having enough time and the true issue: having the wrong priorities. You’ll Learn [01:28] Time: The Biggest Excuse for Staying Stagnant [06:02] You Don’t Make Money on Bad Clients [10:20] Building Trust with Clients Without Overcommunicating [19:35] Finding the Bottleneck in Your Business Quotables “Don't optimize for the wrong things. You have to make sure you're optimizing for the right things.” “We all have the same amount of time every day.” “The issue is not time. The issue is priorities.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) most of you listening have some properties and some owners in your portfolio that are losing you money. Your operational cost on them is higher than you being able to pull profit on them. All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses. helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners, and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so what are we chatting about today? Sarah? Time. Time. Time. Why are we chatting about time? And this is where most people mess it up because it's so precious here's the little captain's face It's precious. Okay, Captain for those listening is a little dog that we have. It's one of our dogs. Okay, so the reason we're talking about time is because time is one of the biggest excuses that we get. Are you working and growing your business? I just don't have time. Or have you been making the calls that you need to make to get your business growing? I don't have time. I'm so busy. I'm so overwhelmed. And so it's everybody is out of time. Nobody has time. Nobody's so busy. There's a meme that it's old, but it's like classic. Ain't nobody got time for that. Ain't nobody got time for that? Yes, you do. So time, time is an issue. Why is time an issue? We all have the same amount of time every day. We get a whole new 24 hours the next day, every day. The issue isn't time. And we've talked about this, think, before, but the issue is not time. The issue is priorities. You're prioritizing the wrong things. And one of the things we've noticed with clients. We just recently wrote for our clients a time optimization playbook for property managers. It's got some brilliant stuff in it. A lot of it from her brain, some of it from my brain, and it's really good. But one of things we've noticed, Elon Musk has these principles for how he goes and optimizes businesses. He's made businesses way more efficient. When he came into Twitter and rebranded it to X he cleaned house, thousands of wasteful employees that were just bloat and not really contributing to code, not really updating it. One of his key principles is don't optimize for the wrong things. You have to make sure you're optimizing for the right things. And a lot of people are optimizing when they should have been cutting stuff out first. So they didn't ask the question, should we even be doing this thing at all? And most property managers we find are optimizing for the wrong thing. They are optimizing for how do I take every phone call from every tenant and how do I take every phone call from every owner and how do I please everybody and do all this stuff that I have to do instead of what? Instead of saying, should I even be talking to these people at all? Your owners don't really want to talk to you. They really would love if they could just trust you to do your job and do it well and not have to talk to you. Like that's really what owners want. When they feel anxious because they don't trust you because you aren't doing a good job or you've set incorrect boundaries or you haven't made them feel safe from the beginning or you onboarded them poorly, they now feel anxious. They want to talk to you all the time because why? They now believe they need to manage the manager. They're trying to manage you. How ridiculous is that? They hire you to manage their property and then they manage you to manage the property. They just traded their job for another job instead of offloading it to you. so we need to optimize for the right things. And so we need to start questioning things. And so some of the things we'll have people do is we'll have them audit their time by doing a time study. And ours is a little bit different. It focuses on identifying the five currencies of time, energy, focus, cash, and effort, which is a framework I got from one of my mentors, Alex Charfen. And so the idea of the time study showcases all of these. It shows all of these. Sarah's, used to say it didn't show cash, but Sarah was like, you should add cash. And so now it has the money piece in it too. just said. You're trading your time. Right. And this is thing I to my clients all the time. I say, if your time was worth, let's just call it a low amount like $50 an hour, you just traded $50 an hour for $13 an hour. It was not a good trade. Yeah. Of course it wasn't. Not a good trade at all. were you doing those things? Instead of using $50 an hour time to do $50 or $100 or $1,000 an hour work, you're using $50 an hour time. to do $13 an hour work, you have to just look at the things that you're doing and place a dollar sign next to them and then kind of compare that with what your pay rate is and what you want your pay rate to be, not just what it currently is. So I just said, just put a dollar sign next to them. And we did. We updated it. So you might be thinking, how do I deal with all my tenants and all my clients? And maybe you should be asking Should I even have all of these tenants, properties, and clients? After all, a lot of our clients, when they first come to us, are not making money on every property. They're losing money on some of the properties. They're losing money on some of the owners that they're dealing with. If you actually ran a P &L, a profit and loss statement on every individual owner, every individual unit that you manage, some of them in your business are losing you money. Would you manage for free? Would you do it for free? People came to you, hey, could you do this? You won't make any money, but I'd like you to manage this anyway. I'll pay you nothing. You would probably say no to that, right? If they came to you and said, hey, I would like you to manage this and you will actually lose money, but it benefits me. Would you do it? You're like, Jason, that's stupid. But right now, most of you listening have some properties and some owners in your portfolio that are losing you money. Your operational cost on them is higher than you being able to pull profit on them. And so it's the 80-20 principle. 20 % of your properties and 20 % of your owners probably cost you 80 % of your operational costs, right? They're eating it up. So one of the principles we share recently, we've been sharing at some of our Jumpstart sessions because we onboard clients in person. We have them come out to our Jumpstart sessions is this idea of, well, do you remember? The Hamburglar. Do remember the Hamburglar? The sneaky, shady guy with the bands and over his like this little thing around his eyes and he's sneaking around stealing burgers, right? Well, there is a burglar sneaking around your business and you can't even see him. He's invisible. And he is the interruption burglar. He's just sneaking around stealing money and time throughout your business all day long. the interruption burglar. One interruption costs between, depending on the studies, you look at 18 minutes to maybe up to 26 minutes of productivity and your team members and you are getting interrupted constantly throughout the day. And then they have to like reset their mind, get back into the flow, get back to what they were doing. But if they're just dealing with interruptions all day long, you are losing probably half the amount of labor that you should be getting. This is why Sarah was able to run her business so efficiently when she was a property manager and why some of her clients have just as many doors as her, but they have a whole team. A huge team. Yeah. They have a whole bunch of people. Between me and my assistant. And they're not making much money. I didn't even have one full-time equivalent. And you were working maybe 20 hours a week. You had 60 to 90 % profit margin. And these were C-class difficult properties, right? But Sarah optimizes. She optimizes for the right things. I hate wasting my time. Yeah, she values her time. biggest pet peeve out of everything in the world is wasting my time. So Sarah values her time. One thing Sarah did not give out, Sarah did not give out this magical check that all of you tend to give out to all of your clients and your tenants. This is this big, giant, glowing golden check that says, steal all of my profits, call me anytime. And you give this to tenants, every tenant and owner, you give them this blank check to steal all of your profitability. I had a client come to me once with 600 units and he was making zero dollars in his business. How is that possible? That's exactly what I asked him. said, there's a previous podcast episode, you can check it out. It's with Preston Brown. I think he was out in New Mexico and he had 250 units that probably they shouldn't been in his portfolio out of the 600. He fired them. It's almost half. Then he fired half of his staff. Now you think, oh, maybe his workload, his got kind of half. No, it went down dramatically like 80-20 rule. Like he had way more profitability available. He was making a lot of money then. He had a healthy business. So It's not just about doors. It's about profit. It's about optimizing for the right things. There's no point going and getting more doors if your pricing is terrible, if your time is messy, if you don't have priorities set correctly. Okay, so what else do we run into with clients with time that we'd like to share here with the audience? I think the biggest thing that they tell themselves is just, I'm so busy. Yeah. piece of the business they're focused in, they always just say, my God, like I'm just so busy and I can never get everything done. That seems to be the thing that we hear again and again and again. I mean, we even had, he's a former client, but he had asked me several times. We were actually helping him implement his daily huddles after he hired a new team because he completed an acquisition. And he said, okay, what we're gonna track on the daily huddles. He wanted a 98 or 97 % call answer rate. Optimizing for the wrong things. And I went, okay, I won't say his name, but I said, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. And he's like, no, it's really important that we answer the phone every time that it rings or almost every time that it rings. Because if we don't answer the phone, then people won't trust us because they can't get ahold of us. And then that shatters everything that I'm trying to do and everything that I'm trying to build. And I think the big misconception is that those two things go hand in hand. For people to trust me, I must always be available. For people to trust me, I must be at their beck and call. For people to trust me, I must get back to them immediately. Okay, well some are freaking out right now. Some are going, I don't believe what Sarah's saying. Because the number one reason in most studies why people supposedly, why they leave property management companies is a lack of communication or poor communication. Correct. But I think that's a red herring. You can over communicate, and we've had clients do this too. So you can over communicate. You can tell your clients every little single thing that you are doing in whichever method or manner you feel like is appropriate. So you can call them, you can text them, you can send them emails, you can have your system automatically send them notifications. You can do whatever, but you can tell them, we did this today, and we did that today, and we did this many showings, and we got this many leads, and we're working on this many applications, and this 10 a call, and we did this, and this, this, this, this, this. Can we agree that that is excellent communication? Sure. Do you think that doing that though makes somebody more likely to trust you? I would argue that it doesn't. I would argue that it makes them less likely to trust you. And the reason is because you're inviting them to babysit you. You're inviting them to be a watchdog. You're inviting them to question you and want to micromanage and monitor. And go, ⁓ what is Jason doing today? What did Jason do on my property today? How many of my tenants did Jason talk to you today? ⁓ What about how many showings did Jason do today and then if all of a sudden? Well, why wasn't there a showing at my property today Jason? I don't understand now. It seems like he's not doing anything, right? So you're you're training people the wrong way by over Communicating with them and you are teaching them to not trust you because they are inherently Question you So I love this because the idea in these surveys and a lot of people at NARPM and people in property management have said, communication is key. We answer the phone, which is cool. Answer the phone. You still don't need to optimize for reducing the phone calls. How do we eliminate as many as possible? And so I think it's a red herring. I think it's a false idea that communication is the number one reason because there's something that comes before communication. and that is you set bad expectations, you set poor boundaries, that leads to anxiety in the tenants and the owners, and then communication becomes this crazy thing that they need more of instead of being able to trust you. The lack of trust is the real problem. It's not communication. There's plenty of investors out there that have good property managers that do not want to talk to them ever. I just had Dustin Heiner on a previous episode of our podcast. Very savvy investor. Every investor listening to this should probably listen to that guy, a really good friend of ours. He goes and finds a property manager first before he finds a property and he says, I will even pay them a little bit more if I have to because I don't want to ever have to talk to them. I don't want to have to deal with the property. I want to be able to trust them to do job so I can just live my life. He wants it to be passive. He's a good investor. You're creating bad investors and you're making them anxious by not setting healthy boundaries and setting expectations and making sure that they can trust you. And so they trust you less and less over time because they're anxious. And then what happens? Then they have to and call more and more and they have to babysit more and more. And then they have to watch over your shoulder and then they want more reports and then they want more communication. then it's this constant. And then you have to hire more people. Now they need more. And now that they've had more, now that they're more anxious and they trust you even less, now they want more of that. And you're just getting in this cycle that's eventually going to be the death of you and your team and perhaps your entire business. It gets worse because yeah, you have to build out this whole team of people you don't even need. You hire a bunch of extra people and these people are not, like if you're hiring that many people, you can't afford to pay them all super well. So you're not getting the most amazing people. And these are the frontline people that are dealing with your tenants and owners. And then they're frustrated with them because they don't have all the answers and they don't sound confident and competent. And so then they want to talk to you. And so you're getting escalations constantly. And so now you're having to talk with them even more to calm down the anxiety because Susie at the front desk had no clue what they were talking about. And then all of a sudden you have this whole team that's not capable of running the business without you. So now everything is still coming to you, but you're paying everybody to do things and it doesn't matter because they do things, they fail, people aren't satisfied and they still go, yeah, but I'm still putting out all the fires all day. You're right, you are. And that's because of how you are training people. And you know you have the wrong team if one of your key questions is, why won't my team just think for themselves? If you constantly are asking that question, why won't they just think for themselves? It's because you. have bad leadership. You've set it up incorrectly and you have not created the right team. You've built the wrong team around the wrong person. You're showing up as the wrong person. You're over involved and you have not been able to create, but you created the wrong environment. And that started with picking, know, setting up the game incorrectly with tenants and owners and not setting good boundaries and not setting good expectations. And it doesn't even mean that you have bad clients. No. It doesn't mean you have bad clients. You're making them bad. bad properties, doesn't even mean that you have bad tenants, it just means that you're training them to treat you that way. And you're allowing them to treat you that way. And then you're wondering why it's so hard to manage them and why everyone goes, Sarah, how is it possible that you ran 260 units and you were part time? I just don't understand how it's possible. And most people wouldn't understand how it's possible because they're making so many mistakes. with their time and throughout their entire day, that almost the entire day, I would be willing to bet that about 80 % or more of the average property manager's day is bullshit. Yeah. Complete bullshit. So that's why when you're spending most of your day doing stupid things, yeah, no wonder why I can outwork you. And it's not even hard to do. It's just hard when you're trying to do everything. And it's hard when you're not training your team, your clients, your tenants. They're all like puppies. You just, have to train all of them. If you want a dog that's going to go to the bathroom outside, you've got to train it. If you want an owner that's going to trust you and not question you and not consistently bother you and wonder what's happening on my property today, you've got to train them to do that. And some of them may have come to you with those intentions. And then because of how your system is set up, you broke that. And now they're just used to, okay,...
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DGS 309: Property Management Pricing Principles that Innovate
10/03/2025
DGS 309: Property Management Pricing Principles that Innovate
If you’ve ever worried that changing your pricing structure or raising your fees would scare away your property management clients, you are likely not making enough money for the work you and your team are doing. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull dive into the psychology and strategy behind the innovative 3-tier hybrid pricing model. You’ll Learn [01:08] Addressing the Common Fears of Changing Pricing [09:10] Creating 3 Pricing Tiers Based on Psychology [16:58] Shifting Your Mindset Surrounding Money [21:12] Distinguishing Your 3 Pricing Plans Quotables “Unless you want to be the cheapest and deliver the most cutthroat, like awful service, and just target the cheapest owners, which have the highest operational cost and the lowest margins, and just hemorrhage money and not be able to grow your business, that's the game you can play.” “That psychological impact of investing in yourself financially, doing something to financially invest in leveling up you and your business creates this unconscious perception that… you are worth being invested in.” “If you have good pricing, you have a really optimized pricing model, and you know how to sell it, it actually changes your portfolio. It incentivizes you having better properties.” Resources Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) What would happen if you doubled your pricing and half of your clients quit. well, then nothing would happen. Nothing would change. then I say, what would happen to your operational costs? All right, we are coming to you from Mexico. We are Jason Hull and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses. helping them at doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right. So we're going to be chatting about what today? Pricing. A little bit about pricing. we have coached and consulted property managers on pricing for a long time, like over a decade. And we've brought some innovative strategies. Like we were first to bring to market really and push into the industry the three tier sort of pricing model having three plans. And this was based on the psychology that there's three types of buyers, cheapos, normals and premiums. You know who they are, right? You've dealt with them. And so, and then more recently in our evolution, we've been pushing a hybrid model. I got that idea originally from Scott Brady. Shout out to Scott, smart guy. And we innovated on that and developed our own model for clients to make that really effective. And so this is something that we've coached quite a few people on. we consistently see some challenges come up over switching their pricing. first, what are some of the fears or concerns that come up, About switching pricing? Yeah. Everyone's always worried, oh my god, what if I lose all of my clients? Right. I'm going to change my pricing, and everyone's going to leave me. And we've helped a lot do that. they lost all their clients. No, it never happens. It never happens. No, if they lose any, it's typically their worst clients. And then they end up finding that that was a blessing. Yeah. So they end up making money by getting rid of those and they're charging more money. So really they're increasing their revenue. So a lot of times to get them over that hurdle, I usually use this example. I say, What would happen if you doubled your pricing and half of your clients quit. Like we did something crazy and extreme. So we go to the extreme. And what do people usually say at first? well, then nothing would happen. Nothing would change. I'm like, really? So then I have to ask deeper questions. So what do mean nothing would happen? Well, I'd still bring in the same amount of revenue. I've doubled my price, half the clients quit. I still have the same revenue. And then I say, what would happen to your operational costs? So they start thinking. So you probably already figuring this out right now, listening to this. So what would happen to your operational costs? They'll say, it'd be cut in half. I'm like, would it? If you lost all of your worst properties and worst owners, like the most difficult, what would happen to your operational costs? It would probably be a fraction, because this is the 80-20 rule, right? 20 % of the properties, 20 % of your owners are eating up 80 % of your team and staff's attention. And so it might be a lot greater than that. And so what would happen then to your profit margin? then they start to figure this out, right? And they say, look, we're not gonna do something that extreme. We're not gonna go that extreme. But if we raise your revenue a bit and we decrease your operational cost a bit without changing anything else, even if you lose some clients, you're going to have more profit. That's what actually matters. So that's one of the first initial things. It's just a mindset thing. And some are really afraid, like my owners won't. They won't go for it. Like, I can't do it. No, I can't change the price and then they'll all leave. And that, I've noticed, it's very scarcity mindset. Right? Your owners aren't with you because you charged the least amount of money, hopefully. And if that's why you have clients is because you're the cheapest one, then that tells me that you have a lot of the cheap clients and you have a lot of clients that don't actually value you or your team. or your services or anything that you do. And that feels like a really impossible game to win. Because then to win the game, all you have to do is just be the cheapest one. So there's another company that comes along and says, you know what? I'm going to be even cheaper. Well, what's going to happen? You'll lose almost all of your clients then. If it's only about the money, you'll lose almost all of your clients. And the only way to win that is what? A race to the bottom. That is nowhere to be in business. And so some of the other challenges we deal with when helping our clients figure out their pricing, you know, we give them everything. We're like, here is how to do this weird hybrid model. Here are the things to include in your three plans. Here is a spreadsheet to figure out and compare to your competitors pricing to make sure you're in the realm of reality. We give them all the stuff and then they'll come back to us sometimes with what? A mess. Yeah. It's like they don't and we have a training we have a training called pricing secrets where we explain all this and the principles that you need to make sure you're aligned with to make sure it's effective and then we'll get this really overly complex complicated messy model where they've got every fee is a different dollar amount for each of the three plans and so somebody looking at this would be like this one is a percentage and that one is a dollar amount and that one's back to a percentage and that one's so then in order for someone to look at that and go, well, what would this actually cost me? It is now this very complex math formula that the further you go down your pricing sheet, the more math you have to do. You have to go, okay, well, this percent of that number, but now plus this flat fee and now, it's another percent of a different number. And then it's going to take you minutes to try to calculate what is my actual cost on this one plan? And then you have to do that three times because you have three different plans. then it's so complex that it's hard to understand, it's hard to explain, and it's definitely going to be hard for people to sell, which means it's going to have a really low adoption rate. And then it's going to be something, well, that didn't work. It didn't work because it was too complex. So we need to find the balance. I don't want it to be so simple that it's just, you know, we charge 8%. But I don't want it to be so complex that Someone just easily by looking at it can't go, okay, I have a pretty good gist of how much this is actually going to run. Yeah. We have an advantage too, because you know, there's concerns. There's concerns. Like everybody's like, well, we can't talk about pricing because of the antitrust stuff and NARPM rules and all this kind of stuff and it's collusion. So what's cool is I'm not a property manager. I'm not anymore. You're not a property manager. We can talk about pricing with anybody. And so when we're coaching our clients, we can talk about their pricing. We're not colluding. And so we have that advantage that we can coach and help. that not just that, but we have a pretty good idea of what pricing, because the hundreds, the thousands of property managers that we've talked to over the last decade and a half, we have a perspective. Like I can pretty much know based on... market or when you tell me the average rent, like where pricing should be, what is normal, what other companies are probably charging that market. We still tell our clients to do some competitive research and analysis to figure out what their competitors are charging. Cause that helps them feel more comfortable with pricing. And one of the key things I've noticed is they'll pay attention to, I mean, there's really only two types of pricing that really matter in each market. It's the most expensive company. and the cheapest. The middle's the fuzzy gray area where it doesn't matter. Your pricing isn't really the issue where you're not really competing effectively on price. But if you're the most expensive, people trust and expect and believe that you're the best, which is a great place to compete and be. If you are the cheapest, then that's a hard game to play. And so we're usually coaching our clients, don't play the game of trying to be the cheapest company in your market. That's not a fun place to be business-wise. And it's really difficult to deliver great service. And so unless you want to be the cheapest and deliver the most cutthroat, like awful service, and just target the cheapest owners, which have the highest operational cost and the lowest margins, and just hemorrhage money and not be able to grow your business, that's the game you can play, but that's not the game we coach our clients on playing. So we teach them how to be perceived as the best in their market, and how to compete as the best in their market. And pricing is one of those psychological indicators that buyers look at to figure out, they going to be good? Are they better than the other guys? Are they the best? And so there's a lot of psychology that goes into pricing, which is how we kind of deal with it. Any other issues we should touch on that we notice with clients with pricing? So you. In short, what Sarah was talking about is we need to make sure the pricing is easy for them to make a distinction between the three plan options, if you have the three plans, and it's not overly complicated so that they don't have to do a bunch of math to figure out which plan should I choose and which one's going to be best. And it's obvious. it's not going to be based. The thing I've noticed lately though is a lot of clients, when they get into the pricing, they mistakenly think the three plans are based on It's based on money and it's not psychologically the premium buyers don't care as much about money the cheapos do and so the plans are not based on money and so if they what they're trying to make different in each of the three plans is dollar amounts so like if you spend more on our plan you get discounts on all these individual fees and that is that the most premium clients that are premium buyers don't care about discounts they're not worried about the money and so I know when a property manager is presenting pricing like this they're a cheapo. They're in that category. They're viewing everything through the lens of money instead of being taken care of a premium service or status or what premium buyers look for. And so that's the other blind spot or challenge we've noticed in pricing is that in order for us to coach clients effectively, often we have to figure out which of the three types of buyers they are and what their inherent blind spot is and get them and if they're a cheapo, which is why they have cheap pricing and they're not getting enough and they're not being taken care of well enough by their business, we have to get them to change their mindset and get them to stretch and stop asking for discounts and coupon codes and get them to be somebody that is willing to spend full price so they expect others to be willing to pay for a service full price. And that's a bigger challenge. Yes. So essentially what we get to do is figure out where they're at so that we can help kind of coach them on the opposite. Because it's hard for a cheapo buyer to understand the premium buyer because they're just not in that mindset. the opposite is true. The premium buyers, they don't understand the cheapo buyers at all. Like, don't understand why you can't just pay, why are you so worried about $10? I don't understand why that's an issue. I mean, you spend $10 and you shouldn't have to think about it. I don't know why that's an issue. usually where the meat in the middle is kind of that middle plan. So I think a lot of people get their middle plan dialed in really well, and then they struggle with their opposite. And that's, think, sometimes why they get a little bit stuck on their pricing. Because they're either trying to do too much with it, they're making everything really complex, they're not really understanding the opposite type of buyer that they are. That's okay, don't fully have to understand that when you have your coaches to lean back on. The question we get most of the time, what do I put my premium plan? What am I supposed to do in a premium plan? I don't know. Should I do this? Should I discount? Should I add this? What would I put in the premium plan? And that tells me that if that's where they're struggling, it just means that they haven't... really adopted that psychology of premium buyer yet. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're cheapo. I think it just means that they're perhaps in the normal category. Because same thing, if you're a normal buyer, it's going to be hard for you to understand the premium, and then it will probably also be hard for you to understand cheapo. So I usually compare it. This is, I think, an analogy people can kind of understand, is when you go to book a flight. So right now we're in Mexico. If we go, hey, instead of going back to Austin, let's go to California and visit Jason's family. Okay. Well then we need a flight from Mexico to California. How would we do that? We would go and book, right? But when you book, there's different ways to book a flight. You can just go right to the airline. You can go on Google flights, or you can go like, what are those, know, kayak and the discount prices. So. Maybe you're thinking, okay, I'll get a last minute ticket and we won't get to sit together, but it's okay. They could throw me. How many times have you heard people say this? they could throw me in the baggage compartment. I Right? Because they're like, I am just trying to pay the least amount of money and still get the thing that I'm looking for. So the cheaper buyers like that, they're like, hey, I want the discount code. I'll do the red eye overnight. I'll do the early morning. I don't care if I have to wake up at 2 AM for like a 430 flight. I'm OK with that. I'll sit way in the back. We don't need to sit together. I'll pay for my baggage as extra. I just won't pack baggage. It's OK. Like I'll shove everything in a carry-on. That's one way to book it. Or the other way to book it is, I'm just gonna go and do the search and then whatever looks like a decent option for a decent price, I'll book that. Or the other option is, I want to make sure that this is the most convenient and easy thing for me. So if there are multiple flights at different times, Sometimes the early flights might be a little bit less expensive than a flight midday So someone might go yeah, the midday flight is more expensive However, the midday flight means I don't need to be up at 2 in the morning 3 in the morning 4 in the morning and I would rather pay more money so that I don't need to be up at 4 a.m. That's a trade-off I would rather buy the first class seat because then I know for sure I'm going to be in first class. I'll get the premium snacks or I'll get a meal. I might get a hot towel. I will be more taken care of. I know that I will have more room. I'll get to board first. I'll get to get off first. And they know that they're taken care of. And they're OK to spend more money because they know that they will be taken care of. So depending on what psychology you have, that will probably be. how you decide to make many, if not all, of your purchasing decisions. Yeah, so I think our advantage, you know, some people have grown up as a premium buyer. They grew up in a premium sort of silver spoon in their mouth environment. That's not me. It's not you. Not me either. Right? Some people have grown up in a really, really cheapo environment, right? And... And so the challenge is that kind of creates this inherent blind spot. The advantage I feel that you and I have as coaches is one, we've been in the cheap environment. I remember my mom like packing cans of food when we would take a vacation because, and cereal, because she wanted to make sure we had, you know, supplies and food to eat rather than going, doing expensive stuff, right? Which is just funny to think about, right? Now. Me and my brothers, joke about this. So I think the advantage is we've been all three and we now are, you know, we're hanging out in Mexico, we're having a very premium sort of buyer experience and I don't even think about what things cost. I don't think about the money, I just think about what experience I want to have and so, you know, there's been that shift. But I can empathize and connect and go back to understanding how a cheapo thinks or how in more normal. buy our things. But in general, my default is I'm not really thinking about the expensive things. I'm thinking about what am I going to get and how is it going to help? Because there's a lot of things we do that make us a lot more money than they cost, even though they're very expensive. And so one of the things that helped me to do that, and I don't know about you, but one of the things that's really helped me shift my mindset was getting high ticket coaches. It's getting coaches that could help me. I was investing and spending of what I felt like was a lot of money. And we're not cheap at DoorGro, right? We're, some would say very expensive, but I was spending money and then I was getting a return. I was getting a return on that investment with coaches and that psychological impact of...
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DGS 308: Passive Power Plays: Land, Storage, and Content that Converts
09/26/2025
DGS 308: Passive Power Plays: Land, Storage, and Content that Converts
Seth Williams (00:00) I was able to buy a lot of land at dirt cheap prices. So there's no mortgages or anything on it. And when you buy anything for a small fraction of its actual market value, it's not hard to turn around and sell that thing and make money on it. Jason Hull (00:14) All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of property management businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit. simplify operations and build and replace entire teams, we are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. And my guest today I'm hanging out with is Seth Williams. Welcome, Seth. Seth Williams (01:28) Hey, Jason, good to be here. Thanks for having me. Jason Hull (01:31) Yeah, it's great to have you and of REtipster. so Seth, let's get into a little bit of your background. You've done a lot of different things connected to real estate. Give us the background on your journey and how you got it kind of got into entrepreneurism and what made you start all this crazy stuff. Seth Williams (01:48) Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, my journey kind of starts back in about 2005, 2006 when I was still in college. And like most people, I was trying to find houses I could buy that I could flip or rent that kind of thing. Just get into the real estate game. But I didn't really know anything about how to do it. I had no competitive advantage. I was looking on the MLS. That was the only place I knew I could look for to find deals. And there weren't any deals. It was horrible. I spent hundreds of hours and found nothing that made any financial sense. And I was just like, man, how do people do this? Like, how do people find good real estate deals if I can't find them? I was looking everywhere and there was nothing out there. And it was around, you know, after struggling with this for a couple of years, I discovered two things that kind of worked hand in hand. The first was the land business. So buying vacant land and Like most people, when I first heard that I was like, what? Picket land? Like, why would I do that? That makes no sense. It's just dirt. Like, where's the cash flow? Where's the income? The other thing that I discovered though was how to find deals off market through something called the delinquent tax list. And this is basically a list of property owners that every county has of properties that are currently back due on their property taxes. This is not the same thing. Jason Hull (02:52) Yeah. Seth Williams (03:11) as the tax sale list. So it's not the list of properties that's going to go up for auction soon. It's people who still own their property, but they're back doing taxes. If they don't pay them off soon, they're going to get their property taken from them. And these two things together, land and the delinquent tax list, I was able to find and contact people who had land with delinquent taxes on it. And because there were delinquent taxes, they're in a situation where it's like, Jason Hull (03:18) Yeah, they're just behind. Seth Williams (03:37) You got to pay off these taxes in like weeks or you're going to lose everything. So why are you in this situation? Is it because you don't care about the property? Like what is the issue? And in many cases, that was it. Maybe they just inherited it. Maybe they bought it 20 years ago, but for whatever reason, they didn't care about the thing. And I'm sitting there saying, Hey, I'll pay you a few hundred dollars, maybe a few thousand dollars, and I'll pay off your taxes and I'll make this problem go away. And because a lot of these people didn't want their property anyway, and I was kind of taking care of a nuisance in their life, I was able to buy a lot of land at dirt cheap prices. And I could also buy it free and clear. So there's no mortgages or anything on it. And when you buy anything for a small fraction of its actual market value, it's not hard to turn around and sell that thing and make money on it. So that was the business I got into. And it's been awesome. It's changed a lot over the years, but It's just been a really great way to, you know, without needing a whole lot of cash, finding properties, getting them for a very cheap price, and then making money without having to change anything on the property. Jason Hull (04:45) Yeah, got it. Okay, cool. Is that still the go-to strategy? Delinquent tax lists. Seth Williams (04:52) So, it's definitely still effective, but the drawback of the delinquent tax list is that they're kind of a pain to get, and then even when you do get them, they're kind of a mess to sort through. So, if you're willing to go through the nuisance of getting the list and sorting through it, there's a ton of value on that. But there's another way that's actually easier through a data service that I use called the LAN portal. And it's basically just a much more streamlined Jason Hull (05:04) Yeah. Yeah. Seth Williams (05:20) seamless, organized way to get lists of landowners. They don't necessarily have delinquent taxes, but I can find specifically the types of properties I want and then either send the mail or a cold column, that kind of thing. So both ways work. They both have pros and cons. The delinquent tax list is more of an annoying way to do it, but it's probably the more effective way. The land portal is a lot easier, but you get a little bit less motivation on that list because people don't have this delinquent tax problem. Jason Hull (05:48) Yeah, less of a mess to clean up, but probably a little quicker. so cool. you're going to unpack today the secrets of building wealth through land investing. This is like your number one specialty. And we'll chat a little bit about self storage. And I'm sure there's some property managers that are listening that might be like, haven't done that yet. Like I have not gotten into. That sort of investment and most of the property managers listening you if you're on a property management business your number one goal Should not be to just manage other people's properties. It should probably be to build up your own portfolio of stuff and and make some money That's probably a bigger better play and leveraging your company to attract deals and to attract Real estate so let's get into this. Where do we start? Seth Williams (06:37) Yeah, well, what I just described, there's kind of the high level view of how you find properties in the first place. And I mean, in terms of like people out there who are property managers who might invest in houses and that kind of thing, there's only one tax list or the land portal can work for those kinds of properties to the main difference is that you're going to find usually less competition when dealing with vacant land, because most people aren't thinking about land, thinking about houses. They think that's the way they have to do it. And that's fine if you want that. But the problem with houses, as you probably know, in property management, there's a lot more wrinkles. There's a lot more people problems. There's things falling apart that are broken and get stolen and destroyed. With land, there's none of that. It's a much simpler animal to deal with. But if your strategy is to find rentals or something like that, you could certainly scope out rental properties using the same method. You would just be targeting different types of property owners than I do. Jason Hull (07:10) Thank got it. So how does this connect to self storage? Seth Williams (07:34) Well, self storage is a totally different business than buying and selling vacant land, but there is some crossover. So back in 2021, I found a piece of land that was zoned residential. It was 6.7 acres and I bought it and I rezoned it to commercial. And then I got approval to build a self storage facility because I had always wanted to get into this business. A land business is great for generating big influxes of cash. It's like a cash generating machine. But self storage is a little bit different. At least the way that I do it, it's more of a cash flow play. you know, all in all, took me a couple million dollars to buy the land and build this facility. It took me basically a year to design it and build it. And it's comparatively speaking, more of a trickle of cash, cash flow, but it's permanent cash flow. There's also a lot of depreciation write offs. It's also very scalable. So it's easy to increase every single person's rent by $5 and the value effectively goes way up because of that. But like nobody moves out because it's just five bucks and most people don't care about a $5 increase per month. So it's a very different business. And for me, my long-term goal is to do more of that because the benefit of self-storage is that unlike land, it's not like a thing that you have to keep peddling for it to keep working. Land is a very active, you know, got to keep peddling or the cashflow is going to stop. Whereas self-storage is, well, you can buy one facility and the management is not terribly difficult for that, at least compared to like a rental property and the cashflow will come in for as long as you own the thing. So that was why I made that shift. Jason Hull (09:12) Nice. well, tell us a little bit about cell storage. How does that work? How can maybe property managers potentially get in? Seth Williams (09:21) Yeah, well, it's when I first got into it, what I tried to do is buy an existing facility from somebody within like an hour driving radius of where I lived. And I think that's probably the best first move is to do that if you can, because you don't have to deal with all of the work of construction and there's cash flow on day one. So like right when you buy the thing, money is already coming in. Whereas when you build a new one, it takes months for the thing to fill up. So that was what I tried to do at first, but problem was in my market, I couldn't find anybody who wanted to sell their property at anywhere near a reasonable price. People wanted like twice as much as what their facilities were worth. And people were paying it like it was just crazy. You couldn't find good deals. And when I saw that, was like, wow, I would normally never build something. But if people are being dumb and overpaying for self storage facilities, I could probably give this a go. And even if I screw it all up, I could still sell it and get out if I needed to. So that was why I decided to do that. And it's nice in that you get to design it and lay it out the way you want, but it's also a much longer runway required to put the cash in and then wait for it to fill up and start cash flow. Jason Hull (10:29) Yeah, this is our market to building these things out and then just selling them even though they're empty. Seth Williams (10:35) Yeah, that's what some people do. Selling them empty. I mean, that's not the ideal play. The real value of these things comes from paying tenants, that kind of thing. Maybe what most people would do is build them or maybe even buy an existing one that's half empty and then fill it up. Like do whatever you have to do to get tenants in there, whether it's changing the pricing or advertising more. And then once it's at least reasonably full, then you could cash out and do whatever you want. Buy another one or do something else. Jason Hull (10:39) Right. Got it. Okay. Got it. Cool. So vacant land, self storage, and then you're also like, you do a lot of content creation stuff in the real estate space. So tell us a little bit about that. Seth Williams (11:12) Sure. Yeah. So I started a website called REtipster back in 2012. And it was really kind of a place to store a lot of the lessons and knowledge that I had gained from my experience in land investing and in owning rental properties and everything I had done to that point. And I didn't really know what the plan was. I just knew, like, it's kind of fun for me to take my ideas and thoughts and things I've learned and distill them down into like bite sized chunks and help other people. figure out how to do the business from where they're at. And it turned out to be a lot of fun. And it didn't make money for like probably the first year that I was running it. But eventually I found ways to monetize it. Started a podcast, a YouTube channel. And a lot of what we talk about is land, but we also talk about self storage and occasionally rental properties, other things that are ancillary related to real estate investing. Jason Hull (12:07) Okay, well cool. Let me do a quick word from our sponsor and then we can get into a little bit more. So our sponsor for this episode is Vendoroo Many of you listening tell me that maintenance is probably the least enjoyable part of being a property manager and definitely the most time consuming. But what if you could cut that workload by up to 85 %? That's exactly what Vendoroo has achieved. They've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all of your maintenance tasks from initiating work orders. and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting. This AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee, learning your preferences and executing tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and never quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well-deserved break. Over half the room at last year's DoorGrowLive event conference signed up with Vendoroo right there. And then a year later, they're not just satisfied, they're raving about how vendor is transformed their business. Don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with vendor. Visit vendor.ai slash door grow today and make this the last maintenance hire you'll ever need. All right, cool. So, Seth. Where should we go from here? We've been talking a little bit about vacant land, a little bit about self storage, talking a little bit about RE tipster. What do you think would be of the most benefit to property management business owners that are exploring some of this stuff? Seth Williams (13:42) Well, you know, maybe we could have a little conversation, you and me. So I've got a few questions I always go to when I'm talking to other real estate investors that are always kind of brings out some interesting perspectives. How long have you been in real estate, Jason? Jason Hull (13:55) Well, so I've been involved with coaching and consulting property management companies. So I'm more of a business coach for like since 2008. Seth Williams (14:04) Mm OK, gotcha. Well, interesting. Here's a question for you. What's one thing that you see new property managers focusing on that you think is actually a distraction from long term success? Jason Hull (14:09) so while. That's a good one. So the most common thing that I see that's a big distraction from long-term success is digital marketing. So a lot of property managers think in order to get more doors or get business, they need to do SEO. They need to do Google ads like pay per click, content marketing, social media marketing. The problem is the dirty secret marketers don't want to tell property managers because they like making money off of them. is that there's very little search volume of people looking on the internet for property management. So they can go on Google trends right now, put in property management backdated to 2004 when Google started tracking data and metrics to the present. And what you'll see is there's very little search volume. And if you compare it to any other term, like compared to AI is a good one lately, it has the same search volume of AI a decade ago. Whereas AI has this meteoric rise. Seth Williams (15:13) Mm, sure. Jason Hull (15:15) And compared to AI, property management is just a little line at the bottom. It like doesn't even register. And so there's plenty of business out there of people that don't want to manage their own property. There's no shortage in the U.S. There's no scarcity, but they're not looking for a property manager actively because they're either not aware that property managers are a viable option or exist, or they are aware, but most property managers suck. So they've written it off. Seth Williams (15:44) Yeah. So how do you find those people then if you don't know where they're looking or maybe you do know where they're looking. Jason Hull (15:44) and they're not really looking. We get them to do crazy things like pick up the phone and call non owner occupied property owners or like connect with real estate agents and create relationships to help the real estate agents get more deals from investors, stuff like that. So. Seth Williams (16:02) Yeah. I'll tell you, there's a ton of power in somebody who's willing to pick up the phone. I mean, so many people don't even want to think about that. But if you can do that, man, you're already way, way ahead of the crowd. Jason Hull (16:09) And there we go. Yeah, I mean, it's the one thing that we can teach clients that they can create business on demand at any time and not have to hope and pray that a market is able to give them something. yeah. Okay. Seth Williams (16:20) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, here's another question. What's something that you hear novice property managers or critics of property managers complain about that makes you roll your eyes? Jason Hull (16:35) Well, the first that comes to mind is a lot of novice property managers complain about the potential clients being cheap. yet they're cheap. And so that's kind of the blind spot that I think there's a lot of property managers that have. They're like, like, I had a client once and he was complaining that, about, you know, I'm tired of getting all these people wanting discounts or asking for us to lower our pricing, all these people that are so cheap about related to property management. And then I saw the same person post in a Facebook group for property managers saying, hey, does anybody have a discount for this? property management software or this then like, what is it? A maintenance software that exists because I don't want to pay full price. And so the irony wasn't lost on me. you know, usually the blind spot that we have is we, you know, kind of project that and create that in others. And so if you're cheap and you have a cheap mindset, then you're going to attract cheap clients. It's far more likely not only that, but you're going to be a lot more sensitive to it. It's going to impact you differently. Seth Williams (17:16) Hmm. Jason Hull (17:36) and people will pick up on that and they'll feel more anxious and be more price sensitive because you are. Seth Williams (17:40) Yeah. For those property managers who are willing to pick up the phone and call around and find their customers, what do they do to avoid those cheap clients? Is there some red flag they can look out for to say, you're not a good fit. We're going to go...
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DGS 307: Building a Self Managing Sales Team Using AI
09/19/2025
DGS 307: Building a Self Managing Sales Team Using AI
In business and in sales, the future is changing faster than most can keep up. AI isn’t just a buzzword anymore. It’s transforming how deals are made and how teams operate. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Steve Trang of ObjectionProof.ai to explore how AI sales reps can book appointments, review calls, and follow up with leads instantly, what this means for property management entrepreneurs, and why learning to leverage AI now is critical to staying competitive. You’ll Learn [01:24] The AI Revolution [11:11] AI Sales Reps [17:39] The Future of AI in Sales [27:31] The Importance of Asking Good Questions [34:49] Setting Impossible Goals to Grow Faster Quotables “I’m not here to say your job is at stake, but you should operate as if it is—because if you’re not, you’re going to get replaced.” “The version of AI today is the worst version you’ll ever deal with—because it’s only getting better.” “AI can instantly—99.9% uptime—call the prospect, ask questions, and book an appointment for you or your salesperson to actually run the sales process.” Resources Transcript Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (00:00) We are building out an AI agent that can actually run sales. call the prospect, ask questions, book an appointment. for you, so it actually sounds like you're having a conversation with another human being. Jason Hull (00:14) All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing. increase profit and simplify operations and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway. to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, my guest today is Steve Trang of objectionproof.ai, and we're gonna be talking about, I guess, the future. Does that sound about right? Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (01:36) Yeah, I would say that's very, very relevant, even more acutely today than normal. Yes. Jason Hull (01:42) So we are in the middle of this insane AI revolution. know, AI is taking over quickly. Everybody's talking about all the jobs that are going to go away. Everybody's playing with chat GPT. It's becoming like their second brain. We're all maybe getting a little dumber because of it. Who knows? But we're also getting more more capabilities. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (01:59) Yeah. Jason Hull (02:03) It's all speeding up so quickly even before we started. I'm like, I just tried this tool and you're like, have you heard of this tool? And like, there's just so many tools out there. before we get into all that, Steve, tell us a little bit, give us a little background on you as an entrepreneur and how you kind of got into entrepreneurism and what led to objection proof. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (02:26) Yeah, so it's going to be a long, secretive road because I got into real estate in 2005. So, you know, I did the good, you know, the, the get good grades so can get a good job deal. Right. I all that. was an engineer. I worked at Intel. and I realized fairly quickly, I wasn't manageable. And so, I had to, I had to find something else where I could work for myself. I read rich dad, poor dad from that. It's like, I got to do real estate, but. I didn't take the advice quite right because I became a realtor in 07, not a good time. So that was a major, major humbling experience. I did some short sales, which are relevant again today. I a list of properties for banks, eventually started my own brokerage. You know, when the bank, when the foreclosure started dying down, became, my own brokerage. Did pretty well. had almost 1 % or we had 1 % market share for a very, short period of time. In the Phoenix market, one of every 100 transactions went through our brokerage. then, I started buying houses, cash started wholesaling, did some flipping, started a podcast disruptors, which is where most people know me from. And then along the way I started a sales training program, started a title company, did some mortgage joint ventures. and then where we are today is AI. I probably sound very ADHD. I promise you, I don't have it. I'm just always chasing the next object, which is very much a symptom of ADHD. But I can sit down and focus for long periods of time. It's just that I'm an entrepreneur, I started out as entrepreneur, and it wasn't until the last two, three years that I've actually learned how to actually sit down and focus. So that's how we got here. Jason Hull (03:58) Okay, yeah. All right, cool. So now that you know how to focus, what are you focused on? Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (04:05) Our focus is at this point more than half of my work schedule, which is more than 50 hours a week, right? It's probably like 60 or 70, is on AI. And the reason why is because things are changing so fast and the things we're trying to do are so innovative. And everyone says that, right? But like We are building out an AI agent that can actually run sales. And so that is something that a lot of people have promised is something we're actually doing. Now, it's not going to buy a house. Is that going to convince a landlord to allow you to do property management? You're still going to have to do the heavy lifting. But what it can do is initiate the conversation, right? So if someone fills out a form, AI can instantly, 99.9 % uptime, right, because it's all technology now, call the prospect, ask questions, book an appointment. for you, the business owner or salesperson, to actually run your sales process. So we can actually book appointments. It sounds real. You can't tell it's AI. Well, if you're really, really deep in the AI world, you could probably tell it's AI. But most people can't tell it's AI. And so it actually sounds like you're having a conversation with another human being. And it took a lot of effort to make that happen. Jason Hull (05:22) Yeah. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (05:23) So that's where a core, a very, very heavy percentage of our detention is today. Jason Hull (05:28) Got it. Yeah. I've started playing around with it. I haven't pulled the trigger to actually have AI agents calling or cold calling my prospects. I'm a little nervous about doing that. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (05:36) Mm-hmm. It's a there's there's elements of leap of faith, right? But you can also test it. You know, we have a if you want to, you know, give it out, we have like a way to opt in for AI to call you so you can hear for yourself what it sounds like. It's not perfect, right? Like the we launched it on August 1st to all our existing clients. So, you know, not that long ago. ⁓ And we're learning about bugs that we weren't aware existed as we're testing it. Jason Hull (05:59) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (06:06) because that's how new this is, right? So we're still iterating and getting better all the time. Jason Hull (06:10) Yeah, got it. OK, cool. Well, that's that's the future. I mean, the amazing thing is. I just signed up for an AI tool like this last weekend and they had this chat bot on the home page that you click talk and it's like a voice, it talks to you and it can hear you talk and it was in the voice of one of the principals of the company. And it was like really good. I don't know if they use 11 labs to do the voice or whatever. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (06:29) Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. It's probably 11 labs, so that would be my guess. Jason Hull (06:40) But yeah, it was like his voice and I could ask it anything. I was asking like, it do AI, like can it do API integrations with HubSpot and how would it connect to this? And it was like giving me, yeah, you could do this and this is how it would work and this way. And I was like, there was no question I could ask it, it didn't know. And it knew everything about the tool. I could ask all sorts of questions about its capabilities and it's like, nope, we don't have that functionality but you could do it this way. And I was like, I was like. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (06:53) All right. Jason Hull (07:07) I felt like it knew more than any salesperson at their company I could have talked to. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (07:12) Oh, 100%. Yeah. Jason Hull (07:14) And so I was really blown away. was like, I I spend hours asking questions because they had, it was like, you have to pay for the year for this tool, right? So I was like, I'm not going to pay for the year for a tool. If I don't know, like I can't trial it or anything. So I was like, I'm asking every question and because it could answer every question I could throw at it with ease. I got all my answers asked and nobody there had to spend any human labor time to talk to me. And I signed up. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (07:22) Yeah. ⁓ Jason Hull (07:42) It was pretty wild. And I'm like, wait a second, could I do this? Can my clients do this? Yeah. But yeah. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (07:48) ⁓ You can answer all the questions. That's not a sales thing, right? Because we have a philosophy that sales is an emotional process, not logical process. So it can answer all the questions. It can remove a lot of the obstacles. But someone still needs to either sell a story or a dream. Or our philosophy is can we ask Jason enough questions. Jason Hull (07:55) Yes. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (08:09) where Jason can formulate his own dream and decide to purchase himself. Because the thing we talk about is we don't sell. We get prospects to sell themselves. And so the one thing that AI cannot do just yet is to get you to sell yourself so that you're willing to sign a contract or pull out a credit card. The thing about entrepreneurs, business owners, and salespeople, the reason why we're such great buyers is because we tell ourselves great stories. Jason Hull (08:18) Yes, totally true. Yeah. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (08:34) The general public is not as good at telling ourselves as great as stories. And so they don't need someone to facilitate that conversation to get them to pull the trigger. Jason Hull (08:42) you Yeah, I've really followed Jeremy Miner's kind of new model of selling sort of formula is NEPQ stuff. And because I noticed sales was getting harder and harder, like people didn't trust. And we're like in this post trust era, nobody trusts anything anymore. so, you know, everything's fake. Like is everybody's perception, especially since the pandemic, everybody got a little bit burned, you know, in the last several years. We're like, everybody's trying to trick us like Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (08:48) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Everyone has an agenda. Yeah. Jason Hull (09:10) And nobody has our best interests at heart. Everybody has an agenda. And I'm actually working on a book right now called the Golden Bridge Formula, which is my philosophy in selling, which is basically if you can showcase how, if I am purely selfish and I'm achieving what I want out of life, I can show how it benefits you, my prospect. And so everybody can trust our motives. If the default assumption in sales is that your motive is to get their money. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (09:19) All right. are mutually aligned. Jason Hull (09:34) which is a really crappy sort of motive, right? But I have something I want more than money, right? Which relates to my purpose in life. And so we teach our clients how to build that golden bridge and how to do that. So I think it'll be really interesting to see when people start to build. I think that's the thing is it would take some real intelligence from, you know, a human that understands empathy and understands this. question-based selling in order to build out AI bots that can do it. Well, I don't know, but we'll see. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (10:04) I would estimate we're probably about 12 months out because we can do it pretty well right now, but we can't do it well with latency and enough information. So like when we're scheduling appointments, like the reason is not to schedule an appointment. There's only a handful of objections, right? But when we're doing real estate, Jason Hull (10:14) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (10:24) there's a lot more questions that need to be answered. And also there's all sorts of different creative ways we can solve the problem, right? Like, you know, the traditional buying land creatively is like, all right, Jason, look, you can pick price, you can pick timeframe, you can pick payments, but you can't pick all three, right? We're not quite there yet, because the dimensions of how you can negotiate a real estate transaction. Jason Hull (10:40) Yeah. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (10:47) It's substantial, right? It could be like, what's most important to them? Is it the depreciation? Is it the tax consequences? Is it the appreciation? Is it the cashflow? Is it I need to hide my taxes, right? Like what is your agenda? And so like AI doesn't have all the information today. Jason Hull (11:02) Hmm. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (11:04) But I imagine 12 months from now, we can have enough data, can have AI figure all that out. Jason Hull (11:10) Yeah, I would think so. okay. Well, tell us about objection proof. Like what is it? Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (11:17) Okay. So, before we get into that, I've been a sales trainer for more than six years now. So we've been coaching the top, house buyers across the country. You know, I'm in Collector Genius, I'm in boardroom and family mastermind. And so like, I work with the biggest and best operators across the country. And as I was looking at it, we've trained hundreds of sales teams and we've trained thousands of salespeople. And so when we talk about our AI tool, it's really just leveling up what already existed. Jason Hull (11:29) Mm-hmm. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (11:45) And so earlier this year, we had three different individuals. We Stephanie Biders, the left main, Brad Chandler with Express Home Buyers, and then Casey Ryan, another really successful wholesaler in Vegas. All three of them, in a course of days, pulled me aside and said, hey, Steve, can you create an AI tool that does this? Hey, Steve, can you create an AI tool that does that? And the things they were asking for was an AI tool that can do automatic call reviews. Right, because there's nothing more frustrating as a business owner than to sit down and listen to call reviews, right? I'd rather cold call than listen to a call review. And so, ⁓ so can you automate the call reviews? Especially if it's bad calls, yes. Right, and so can we automate call reviews? all right, so I set out to figure out how to do that. The other problem was like, how do I know my new salesperson is now ready to take leads I'm paying for? Jason Hull (12:20) Right. Right, especially if it's mad calls. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (12:43) You hire a salesperson, you onboard and you train them. When are they actually ready for leads that you're spending three, $400 for? Okay, so let's create a roleplay bot that can measure the quality. And then the last thing is how can we have our salespeople train every day on your ideal sales process? So again, the same idea with a roleplay bot is that you can call it every single day and train on it. So we created that. Jason Hull (12:44) Right. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (13:12) earlier this year and that's been growing like gangbusters. Right. And then the thing again, we just launched this past week or week and a half now is an AI lead manager, which takes it from like someone that fills out an inquiry on the web form to calling them within seconds, right? To talk to them, to schedule an appointment. And the great thing about AI is that it has zero call reluctance. And I can tell you in my own personal experience as the one that created this tool. Jason Hull (13:30) Yeah. Yes. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (13:40) When I built it out, I forgot to iterate, like this is super nerdy stuff, right? But like, hey, call three times and stop, right? But I didn't get the counter right, so it always started zero every time I went through the loop. It called me 15 times in a row before I figured out how to shut it off, right? So it's got zero call reluctance. Oh yeah, if you said it, it'll call you 100 times a row, 1,000 times a row, no fear. Jason Hull (14:01) It's very persistent, yeah. Well, you know, that's super interesting because I saw a video recently from Alex Hermosy and I've worked with him. I've been in masterminds with him and he said that he, one of his partner companies that he invests in, they had a 400 % increase in their close rate just by hiring one person to call every new lead within 60 seconds of the lead coming in. 400 % increase in deals close. And I'm like, Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (14:26) Mm-hm. Yeah. Right. Jason Hull (14:31) That speed to lead is a significant thing. So I've been thinking about the same exact thing. I'm like, can connect Sinflow to HubSpot or can I do something to get some sort of phone agent to like call a new lead instantly? Because it's really difficult to get my team to do that. They might be in the middle of something. They might be making calls right then, you know? And so, yeah, 60 seconds. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (14:46) They're humans. They can be at a sales appointment, they can be in the bathroom, they can be in the car driving back from an appointment. Yeah, exactly. Jason Hull (14:55) It can be late at night, like when the lead comes in, you know, and I don't know, maybe somebody's filling out a lead form at one in the morning. I don't know if they'd answer the phone, but like call them and text them an email and maybe something happens. don't know. Steve Trang ObjectionProof.ai (15:08) Exactly. Yeah, so that's the problem we seek to solve and I would say we did a pretty good job of it. Jason Hull (15:14) Nice. Okay. Very cool. So yeah, super cool. So mean, this is the future and you know, I'm sure now because AI allows us to innovate with AI even faster, like it's, it's snowballing. Like it's just speeding up rapidly. It's like, now you can go to your AI and say, Hey, I want to figure out how to do this, solve this problem. And it's like, here's a bunch of...
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DGS 306: Trusting the Process: Lessons Entrepreneurs Can Learn From Life Events
09/12/2025
DGS 306: Trusting the Process: Lessons Entrepreneurs Can Learn From Life Events
In business and in life, sometimes things don’t go as we planned. Sometimes, our plans are completely derailed. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull share a recent experience where they ended up in the right place at the right time and discuss the importance of being able to trust the process. You’ll Learn [01:27] A Sudden Vet Visit Becomes An Unexpected Lesson [08:20] When the Plan is Derailed [16:30] Being in The Right Place at the Right Time [23:21] Trusting the Process When Things Don’t Go as Planned Quotables “In business, things are always changing.” “Things might derail us, but that doesn't mean that it has to be a worse outcome just because it didn't go the way that you wanted.” “A lot of times it's not the business stuff that derails us. It's everything else outside of business.” Resources Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) In business, things are always changing. Things might derail us, but that doesn't mean that it's going to has to be a worse outcome just because it didn't go the way that you wanted. All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses. helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world. and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income at DoorGrow. We are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. now let's get into the show. OK, so we were up way too late last night. And it wasn't for any really exciting reason. It was because of dogs. So. Do you want to tell the story? Yeah, sure. So you start last night, we were about to settle down and we were going to watch something on Netflix and my dog, my biggest dog, Parker, he is he's our pit bull. Well, he's our pure red pit bull. And he's kind of scratching and pawing at the couch. telling Jason he wants something. So Jason goes over, pulls it out. And we have these, they're water buffalo horns. Natural, like real water buffalo horns that they chew on. And there was a, how big was it? Like this big? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe like two by three inches kind of a thing. So little last piece of it and Parker wanted it. I got up. Went to the bathroom. I come out. It's in pieces on the floor. So I did not want him to eat that. So I said, no, no, no, give me that. And he did not want to give it to me. So I took the remaining pieces off of the floor and I figured I would bribe him with a treat. I was pretty sure he swallowed. And at least some of it was kind of dark. Yeah. So pretty sure he swallowed some of it. And I went, okay, I don't wanna play this game. I've played this game several times. It's not fun. I'm just gonna induce vomiting and then we'll get it out of him and we'll go on with our night. So we do this mixture of hydrogen peroxide and I some vanilla ice cream. No vomit. So I did another batch of that. No vomit. I did a third batch of that. No vomit. And now I'm starting to panic because it's been about what? 15 minutes at that point. Maybe 20. Maybe 20. And I'm going, I'm panicking. I'm going, I have never given a dog hydrogen peroxide and they didn't vomit. I don't understand what to do. So he had looked up online and he said, okay, well. Walking I guess will help stimulate that so I went okay. So we walked him down to the end of the block. We came back. No vomit we got into the house as soon as we got into the house, then he vomited twice And some of the pieces had come out, but I was quite large. Yeah. Yeah, I know I don't think they would have passed through a system. So it was a good thing that we did that. Yeah, I know so then I I felt like what if there's more in there because I just don't I don't know And I get, I get really nervous about that. So we were thinking that most of it kind of came out. I thought maybe there was a little bit left, but wasn't quite sure. Didn't want to induce vomiting again, especially after that much time had passed. It's, it's, it's not going to be good at that point. So we were sitting on the couch. We were kind of keeping an eye on him. He was drinking some water, but then he started kind of drooling. and that's not a good sign, I went, okay, we're going to the vet. So we went to the emergency room vet. We got there around 11 o'clock. Okay. Thinking they would get him right in because it's an emergency. Yeah. And they just had a crazy night at this place. Such a sad night for them. So we got there. We drove my Chevy Tahoe, not my cyber truck. Yeah. Because that's the vehicle we usually drive if we're putting the dogs in it, because, know, who knows, maybe the dogs scratch stuff or puke or whatever. So we drove the Tahoe and We get there and they wouldn't see us. And there's kind of a timeline in Sarah's mind. Well, no, you look it It says pretty much about two hours from when it goes to the stomach into, I think it's called the pyloric valve. You can quote me on that. But then it goes into the intestine. If it goes into the intestine, we're F'd because it's not going to pass through the intestine. I can tell you that for sure. And once it's in there, you can't get it. It's not like it can regurgitate back out into the stomach. It's in there, it's done. So now your option is surgery or death. Ask me how I know. Been there, done that. Yeah, you had a dog have this issue. Two dogs. Two. Two dogs eating things they shouldn't eat. Yeah. So I'm trying to make sure we can get, if there is something in there, I just want to check and see. Don't even know. Maybe there's something in there. Maybe there's not. But if there's something in there, I want to get it before it gets into the intestine Yeah, so by the time we got there it already been at least what an hour and a half Yeah Since the original incident so we don't know if there's still something in him and we get there and then we're sitting in the waiting room and there's a Lot of stuff happening. I guess there's just a lot of people ahead of us to have some serious Issues with their pets and so we're waiting Eventually I go up and you were freaking out. You're like, we're nearing the deadline. I'm counting down. I'm going, okay, we have 20 minutes left. So I go up and I just say, is there any way we can rush this along or is there another place we can go? And she hands me a sheet. Here's some other hospitals in the area. This one's 20 minutes away. It's good. This one's 30 minutes away. It's good. And I was like, my gosh, it's another 20 and 30 minutes. That puts us past the two hour mark. So I... Explain this to you brought you the sheet like and you said we might as well just yeah go home So I said well at that point if they cannot get us in here and then we have to go somewhere else either way We're gonna miss the two-hour deadline. So at that point now, it's a gamble Okay, so if it's moving on to his intestine now, we just go okay We keep an eye on him and he's gonna be fine or we keep an eye on him and we come right back here when we need to so We talked about it, we thought about it, and then we said, okay, let's just head home because if there's nothing they can do at this point, like we missed the window. So let's just head home. Okay. So the story gets kind of interesting from here. So we go out to the car, we get Parker in and I push the button to start the Tahoe and it sort of turns over, but it doesn't start. So the battery must be low. like never has happened ever with this vehicle. And so we were stuck. We were stuck. Okay. Could not. Yeah. Couldn't start the vehicle. So forced to stay there, which actually back for jumper cables. Right. I'm digging around, figuring out where I'd hide, hit my jumper cables in this vehicle. He was pissed. He like hit the steering wheel. Okay, apparently I got violent with the the Tahoe. He was mad. So get it. It was like 11 45 at night. I understand. Okay, so the story gets even more interesting. Well at this point. Well wait. So at this point I had said to Jason I said wait. my god. What if This is god telling us You are supposed to be here like you are exactly where you are supposed to be I thought maybe because this is weird. This is weird All right, so we're tell you the conclusion of this because it does seem like some little bit of magic happened. So maybe God really did want to stay. So, but I'm going to share our sponsor for this this this episode, Cover Pest. So Cover Pest is the easiest and seamless way to add on demand pest control to your resident benefit package. Residents love the simplicity of submitting a service request and how affordable it is compared to traditional pest control options. Investors love knowing that their property is kept pest free. And property managers love getting their time back and making more revenue per door. Simply put, Cover Pest is the easiest way to handle pest control issues at all of your properties. To learn more and to get special DoorGrow pricing, visit coverpest.com slash DoorGrow. Okay. Back to the story. All right. So, so then I'm, find the jumper cables and I'm like, cool. I guess I was and I was like, I don't even know if I have jumper cables, but I do. I had that planned. So from the beginning, I guess a long time ago, I had stashed them in a panel in the backside of the vehicle that had to pop off in plastic. And then I found them. All right, so I had the bag, I had the jumper cables, and then I'm like, I need to find somebody. And like, there's a bunch of cars, but only one was running and there was only one person outside, so I went up to it. I could tell they were pretty upset. Like I'd seen them walking around. It's two ladies. Turns out one is the friend of the other and had driven her there in her car. And so I went up to the window and I was like, know, I'll let my jumper cables. She rolled down her window and said, hey, could you help us jump our car? Our car won't start. I could really use some help. And I'm thinking. she's probably thinking I'm some weird creep or gonna do something or I don't know, like in middle of the night, like it's really, it's late and like, you know, but she was like, she said, yeah, I'd be, I'd be happy to help. My dog just died. And then this lady's coming out that works at this center and she's holding a little paper and she said, this lady is bringing me the prints that they took of my dog's paws. right now. And I was like, my gosh, I am so sorry. Like this is like one of the most awful things ever. And I didn't, I didn't even know what I could say other than I'm so sorry. And she said, but she was willing to help out. So she drove her car over and next to ours and I hooked up the cables and tried getting this thing started. And it like, I think I charged it. Initially, I thought let's do it for like five minutes, then try it. Then we waited, didn't work, waited another five, 10 minutes, tried again, still didn't work. Somewhere in the middle of trying all this, the same lady comes out and she's like holding her iPad and she's like, are you guys here for Parker? Are you still wanting to be seen? And I was like, well, I guess. And I said, do you want to? It's already been past that time. And Sarah was like, yeah, we might as well. Yeah, so I explained to her the issue and she said well It might not hurt to have them looked at and she said it's not a hard and fast two-hour rule sometimes it's closer to two to four so you might still have some time and You know, do you want us to at least check him out and you know? Do an exam like, know, we can kind of feel around in the stomach. Maybe do an ultrasound or an x-ray I said, okay, let's get him in so I went brought Parker in and Jason stayed outside Trying to jump the car. So this lady said, you know, I told her, you know, I could when I had got offered like asked for help, I had said, well, only, you know, I could give you a hug, you know, was the thing I could offer because she was so sad and I didn't know what to do. And she then told me I started talking with her. She told me that she was she just opened up. I think she could tell I was probably a safe person to talk to. She just opened up and said, hey, I'm just really debating right now whether I should go see her, go see my dead dog. Like whether I should go see her, because I didn't see her. Like she went in and she passed away and I didn't see her. so I could tell, you know, if she's asking the question, there's probably, it's probably, yeah, you probably should. And I said, well, I just was thinking, what does she think around and, you know, trying to be empathetic. And I was like, she's, why would she not want to? Well, I was like, are you concerned that if you go see your dog, that that's the image you'll have of her forever? And she said, yeah. And she starts crying. She said, yes. I said, you have a lifetime of experiences with this dog to remember, you know, with her to remember her by. This will not be the defining thing, but I think if you don't go and get full closure on this and you know, there's going to be an emotional thing that just doesn't happen. You know, you need, you need to get that closure and that would be my, my guess, but this is for you to decide. And, I guess based on that conversation, she decided to go, to go, to go do it. So she. like I'm gonna go do it and so she goes get in my car still her car still running I'm still trying to charge my car figure out well now I guess I'll just let it run for a while and I let it run for a good another 10 15 another 15 minutes at a timer still wouldn't start car just would not start it wouldn't turn over So she goes in and then eventually she comes back out and she's like, they're making me wait. I think they're trying to get her presentable for me. And I said, well, it's probably a good thing. You know, but she's like, but now I am like, I'm thinking all about it and I'm stressed. And I have to wait. was hoping I'd just walk in and see her and be done with it. And I was like, yeah, I get that. And I guess you were inside with Parker and you had eventually she was. came out and they were like, you can go in. She, she went in to go, go see, but I had asked her, like, do you mind me asking what happened? She said, my dog was in a car accident. A car hit my dog, not a car accident. My dog hit like I hit by the car and cause she gets out and thinks it's super fun to get out and had gotten out and she was feeling really guilty. Like it was her fault. And so she went in, I guess, to go see the dog and I was outside with the cars, but you had kind of, you were inside. to share? Yeah well I was inside with Parker just kind of waiting so at this point they had already come and checked a few things preliminarily and then they were sending the doctor in and I think everybody in the building could hear that poor woman she was just absolutely crushed and heartbroken and just wailing and crying and I am not one to cry and I'm sitting there I've got like tears coming down my face I'm going god this poor woman just because I've been there and I know what that feels like. So then the doctor ends up coming in and she's kind of checking him out and asking me some questions and the fact that it was a water buffalo horn was really confusing for everyone because it's not very common. So she's kind of feeling around on his stomach and she goes he has a full bladder. She said, he might need a potty break. And she said, OK, and then I'm just going to check a couple things here, and then we're going to take him in the back. We'll do an ultrasound. I said, OK. So as she's doing her heart check on him, she said, hey, did anyone ever tell you that he has a heart murmur? And I said, no. And she said, OK, well, it's not anything serious right now. It's really not bad. But it is something to keep an eye on because. it could be associated with something like heart disease or a heart failure. So there might be some underlying heart condition. It's you might want to talk to a cardiologist and just kind of have them check it out. I said, okay. So then she took Parker back and I was waiting for them to come back. She comes back at some point with him and she says, well, she said, okay, so here's what I think about the bone. I'm still going to stand by my original statement. I would not recommend inducing vomiting again. You already did that. Some of the bones came out. She said, if there's anything else in there, I would not recommend inducing vomiting again. Sometimes if you do induce vomiting, then something might get stuck in the esophagus. It might scratch or tear the esophagus. Now you have a critical problem. So she said, I think you already did that. Don't worry about it. I would not do it again. I would not recommend us doing it again. She said, if it's a bone, Their stomachs are just meant to digest that. Don't give him any sort of anti acid. Just let his stomach do its thing. And at some point it'll disintegrate and it'll pass normally. So I said, okay. And she said, I do however have some bad news. And I said, well, what is it? And she said, well, do you know when I was feeling him and I said, his bladder seems full. Well, that was not his bladder. And she said, so he has a large mass located right behind his bladder. And she showed me the ultrasound image of it. And it's larger than a grapefruit right now. So it's pretty big. And she doesn't know what it is. She's not sure, you know, is it liquid? Is it some sort of cyst? Is it some sort of like tumor? We don't really know what it is. She sent me a referral so that I can go and have them do an ultrasound and then have them kind of take a look at it. They of course recommended biopsy, which I'm not going to do. But she said, yeah, I would definitely have this checked out. And she said, I am so, so, so sorry to have to tell you this. But the way she was breaking it to me was almost like she was treating me like the woman who, yeah, who like, whose dog just passed away. And I'm thinking, okay. So from her point of view, I understand why she was kind of reacting that way. I do understand why she thought I would react that way. But I think the way I feel about it is I don't think we're gonna go the typical normal route of let's go and have somebody poke it and rupture it and then. release whatever it is out into his body to just float around and that'll kill him in like a year. And in the meantime, we're going to do all kinds of medication and cancer treatments and radiation and chemotherapy and all of the things that then will also kill you. We're not doing any of those things. But yeah, the point is she felt like it was really, really bad news and you felt like you're going...
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DGS 305: Beyond Bricks: The Psychology of Smart Property Buying
08/29/2025
DGS 305: Beyond Bricks: The Psychology of Smart Property Buying
For many investors, they start their journey by connecting with a real estate agent who doesn’t match their values or understand their goals. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Andrew Rhatigan from Rhatigan Real Estate to go deep into the intersection of strategy and psychology and property investment, from navigating relocations and high-value deals to uncovering the mindset shifts that drive success in real estate. You’ll Learn [04:21] Using Psychology to Figure out Investors’ Motivations [09:07] The New Model of Selling: Empathy [13:16] The Property Management Industry in Ireland [21:09] Saving Investors 80 Hours Per Month and Retaining Value Quotables “Most people's end goal is not to have rental property. There's a reason why.” “If the investment vehicle isn't going to help them achieve their why or their purpose, then it's probably not a good idea.” “I think that's really the crux of actual, valuable, true selling. It's not about trying to force people or convince people to buy a product or a service or to get into something. It's about figuring out, do they even need what maybe I could offer them?” Resources Transcript Andrew Rhatigan (00:00) instead of just being sold something for the sake of transacting, Jason Hull (00:00) And instead of just being sold something for the sake of transacting, Andrew Rhatigan (00:03) they've been guided to something that's going to suit their risk tolerance, their life now, and also the future if they chose to rent it in time to come. Jason Hull (00:03) they've been guided to something that's gonna suit their risk tolerance, their life now, and also the future if they chose to invest in the All right, I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses, we want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. And today, my guest is Andrew Rhatigan Welcome, Andrew. Andrew Rhatigan (01:24) Pleasure to be here, thanks for having us. Jason Hull (01:26) It's good to have you. So Andrew, we're going to go deep into the intersection of strategy and psychology and property investment from navigating relocations and high value deals to uncovering the mindset shifts that drive success in real estate and business and learn how your innovative approach helps investors save over 80 hours a month and retain up to 10 % more value in their property transactions. All right, so Hopefully that's got some people ears perked up and their attention peaked and they're interested. So Andrew, give us a little background on you and how you kind of got into business and entrepreneurism and started into real estate investing and all of this stuff. Andrew Rhatigan (02:09) So firstly, great to be here. And even from your introduction, it made me want to get involved in what you're doing. So it was a fabulous insight into the value you drive for your clients and potential clientele. So essentially, I suppose I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit and by virtue of life's experience, I've gone from every different avenue. And I suppose the backdrop to my life was that my family are and were in property in a very variety of ways. My late father was a developer and I have other family members that are still in development to this day. And I suppose as I grew up, I was always interested in people and sales, but I ran away a little bit from the property side of things to go forge my own path and explore what I felt, you know, my version of winning was. And I originally studied psychology because at the time I thought it would sound good at a dinner party. I'm happy to say that now at the age of 40, that at the age of 18, guess what? Mic drop. I had no idea what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I studied what I thought would sound good at a party. Jason Hull (02:47) explore what I felt my version of winning was. And I originally studied psychology because at the time I thought it would sound good at a dinner party. I'm happy to say that now at the age of 40, that at the age of 18, guess what? Mic drop. I had no idea what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I studied what I thought would sound good at a party. Andrew Rhatigan (03:06) But how it benefited me was that I understood more about myself, my inner workings, my drivers. And as I grew, I had different businesses throughout my life, but it all centered around two things, sales and people. And I suppose that was built on a foundation of authenticity, trust, and really seeking to build relationships for the long term rather than transactions. And I was in property, been in property for the last 10 years. And when COVID hit, I saw an opportunity to build a business. Jason Hull (03:07) But how it benefited me was that I understood more about myself, my inner workings, my drivers. And as I grew, I had different businesses throughout my life, but it all centered around two things, sales and people. And I thought that was built on a foundation of authenticity, trust, and really seeking to build relationships for the long term rather than transactions. And I was in property, been in property for the last 10 years. And when COVID hit, I saw an opportunity to build a business based on my Andrew Rhatigan (03:36) based on my personality Jason Hull (03:37) personality type and a niche in the market that was booking the trend of generic real estate agency. So as opposed to simply transacting, charging a simple fee and of rowing in with the rest of the property agency around the world, I decided to create a consultative business that was client first. I advocate for clients and independent. And I suppose I add that layer of Andrew Rhatigan (03:37) type and a niche in the market that was booking the trend of generic real estate agency. So as opposed to simply transacting, charging a simple fee and kind of rowing in with the rest of property agency around the world, I decided to create a consultative business that was client first. I advocate for clients. I'm independent. And I suppose I add that layer of Almost sports management to it, you know, so a big part of what we do is we were a fixer for a lot of our clients that come to us with almost a plastic bag full of a jumbled mixture of receipts at account season. And they come to us with a problem or an idea, and then they ask us to fix it or find a solution. And essentially we've become that advisor or that advocate for people who are looking to either put their money to work or who are looking to source a property in Ireland as a base for an investment or for supporting family or themselves going forward. Jason Hull (04:02) almost sports management to it. know, so a big part of what we do is we're a fixer for a lot of our clients that come to us with almost a plastic bag full of a jumbled mixture of receipts at account season. And they come to us with a problem or an idea and then they ask us to fix it or find a solution. And essentially we've become that advisor or that advocate for people who are looking to either put their money to work or who are looking to source a property in Ireland as a base for an investment or for supporting family or themselves going forward. Well, let's get into the topic at hand then so how How have you sort of applied this psychology background that sounded cool at a party You know to you know what you're doing now with real estate investing Andrew Rhatigan (04:46) I think the best way to describe it is life. You'll often have that you have a different, let's say a room of people at a variety of age brackets and they all have a different view on the world by virtue of what they've experienced, the way they see the world now and obviously their disposition to what they want from life. So I suppose what we do when we're assessing a potential client is instead of me taking Jason's budget and just finding something for the sake of it, I front load the conversation by asking what is it Jason wants from life? Jason Hull (04:58) I've decided. So I suppose what we do... of me taking Jason's budget and just finding something for the sake of it, I front load the conversation by asking what is it Jason wants from life? Andrew Rhatigan (05:15) What is his appetite to risk? What does he think he wants in a property? And what would that mean if we were to work through that hypothetical? And I suppose what I found quite unique is the way we work with people is I'm quite challenging to what people want to do because I'm asking the question before they've had to buy it because Jason Hull (05:15) What is his appetite to risk? What does he think he wants in a property? And what would that mean if we were to work through that hypothetical? And what I found quite unique is the way we work with people is I'm quite challenging what people want to do because I'm asking the question before they're fired. ⁓ Andrew Rhatigan (05:32) that advisory piece needs to come into play. So I'm quite like an parent. So if Jason said, let's say if we looked at it from a car point of view, I need a two door sports car that goes from zero to one hundred. Jason Hull (05:33) advisory piece needs to commit to play. So I'm like a parent. So if Jason said, let's say if we looked at it from a cardboard view, I needed two doors sports card that goes from zero to 100, know, lickety split. I just wanted because I wanted. And I said, okay, but do you have, and I know each other before, do you have dogs? Do you like to play them out a lot? Do you have kids? Do you play golf? Right. asking those questions. Andrew Rhatigan (05:43) You know, lickety split and I just wanted because I want it. And I say, okay, you know, do you have, and I know we chatted before it. Do you have dogs? Do you like to take them out a lot? Do you have kids? Do you play golf? Am I asking those questions? We're then essentially creating a foundation where I've challenged someone before they've spent money at that level to really understand what their motivations are. So property, when we're working on it, it's probably 90 % mental and then 10 % execution. Jason Hull (05:56) We're then essentially creating a foundation for our challenge, some before they spent money at that level to really understand what their motivations are. So property, what we're working on is probably 90 % mental and then 10 % execution. Yeah, got it. So I love that you're kind of asking them what they want out of life first, because I mean, most people's end goal is not to have rental property. There's a reason why behind, you know, these decisions and why they have these things. And if the investment vehicle isn't gonna help them achieve their why or their purpose, then it's probably not a good idea. So, cool. So this is kind of how you start with people. Andrew Rhatigan (06:31) Yeah, people are paying for it right now. Yeah. Jason Hull (06:35) So then what do feel like would be the next step? Andrew Rhatigan (06:38) So essentially when someone has either referred to us or reaches out to us through our various websites or offerings, a big part of what I try and understand is someone's potential profile. So I could have someone that's abroad and let's say they've had a windfall from maybe a bereavement or a financial award. There may be something in that where they maybe need an hour of my time so I can guide them through why they shouldn't be making an investment, especially in the Irish market, because it is quite contentious. Supply is a challenge. Jason Hull (06:55) something especially in the Irish market because it is quite contentious, supply is a challenge. ⁓ Andrew Rhatigan (07:06) And when people are looking at Ireland from an international stage, they probably don't understand the nuances of it. But a big part of what I lean into with people is I will often tell people no, because I'm coming from a place that I want to make them, I want them to go away from meeting us and having that conversation, knowing that we've given the best advice for what they want from life rather than a paint by numbers that everyone can do. Jason Hull (07:09) they probably don't understand the nuances of it. But a big part of what I lean into with people is I will often tell people no, because I'm coming from a place that I want to make them, I want them to go away from meeting us and having that conversation knowing that we've given the best advice for what they want from life rather than a paint by numbers that everyone can do. It's everyone's version. I go back to everyone, version of winning is different. And I originally got it from Gary Vaynerchuk about 10 years ago, which was Andrew Rhatigan (07:29) because everyone's version, I go back to everyone's version of winning is different and I originally got it from Gary Vaynerchuk about 10 years ago, which was one person wants to work a 30 hour work week, they want to play video games at night and take two holidays a year. Another person wants to have every door in an apartment block and they want to build a special purpose vehicle and build for the next three to five generations, let's say. What drives both of those is inherently different. There's only one Jeff Bezos for a reason. Jason Hull (07:38) One person wants to work a 30 hour work week, they want to play video games at night and take two holidays a year. Another person wants to have every door in the apartment block and they want to build a special purpose vehicle and build for the next three to five generations, let's say. What drives both of those is inherently different. There's no jet-flazed off for a reason. So when we're working with people or potentially working with people, we really want to understand what it is they want. So by asking key questions, we understand... Andrew Rhatigan (07:58) So when we're working with people or potentially working with people, we really want to understand what it is they want. So by asking key questions, we understand their background, their motivators, their appetite to risk their life cycle as well. Because if someone makes a lot of money, they maybe want to put it to work rather than leave it in a bank. But if someone is not equipped to have, I suppose, the wherewithal to understand when you're putting money into, into real estate, what the implications are, they maybe need someone to tell them not to do it. Jason Hull (08:06) their background, their motivators, their appetite to risk, their life cycle as well, because if someone makes a lot of money, they maybe want to put it to work rather than leave it in the bank. But if someone is not equipped to have, I suppose, the wherewithal to understand when you're putting money into real estate, what the implications are, they maybe need someone to tell them not to do it, to put the money somewhere safe and to take a percentage of it and maybe go into some sort of a fractional ownership scheme. Andrew Rhatigan (08:26) to put the money somewhere safe and to take a percentage of it and maybe go into some sort of a fractional ownership scheme. So someone who may be able to invest in a larger fund that they can weather the cost and they get a more nominal return in the long term. So I suppose a big part of how I look at it is giving people the advice they need. And then I also have a lot of people who are looking at Ireland now as a place to build a lifestyle. So we have a lot of people who are international looking at Ireland because of the lifestyle, the language and the location. Jason Hull (08:32) So somebody may be able to invest in a larger fund that they could weather the cost and they get more normal return in long term. So I suppose a big part of how I look at it is giving people the advice they need. And then I also have a lot of people who are looking at Ireland now as a place to build a lifestyle. So we have a lot of people who are international looking at Ireland because of the lifestyle, the language and the location. Andrew Rhatigan (08:56) So lifestyle because it's quite a relaxed setting, language because English is the first language Jason Hull (08:56) So lifestyle because it's quite a relaxed selling language because English is the first language. Andrew Rhatigan (09:01) and location being a jumping off point for the rest of Europe. So we see a lot of ⁓ entrepreneurs, expats, musicians, sports people who are looking at Ireland as a base even for themselves from a personal perspective as well. Jason Hull (09:01) and location being a jumping-on point for the rest of Europe. So we see a lot of entrepreneurs, ec-pats, musicians, people who are looking at Ireland as a face, even from themselves from a personal perspective as well. Yeah, I like it. Well, I love what you said about the sales process, that you're not trying to shove them or push them into a particular vehicle. You're trying to figure out what would be best for them. And I think that's really the crux of actual valuable, true selling. It's not about trying to force people or convince people to buy a product or a service or to get into something. It's about figuring out, do they even need what maybe I could offer them? And if they do need it, do they want it from me? Instead of trying to push them. And I think there's been a huge shift I've noticed in the last, I guess since COVID, we're kind of in this post trust era. Everybody got kind of burned by COVID because they realized, hey, we were kind of all duped and tricked to some degree. then we're like, especially in the States here in the U.S., we're figuring out, well, voting sort of been fake and food's been fake and everything politically we're lied to and medical stuff is all this stuff is coming out as fake. And right now it seems like now the stuff talked about on the news is the weather's fake. so. We're like, we feel so manipulated and we feel like we've been lied to in so many ways that trust is at this all time low. The one thing that I've noticed that people trust though, is they trust themselves. And so I think that there's a new model of selling that's really come about as a result of this. If you're trying to be effective and that's being more empathetic, it's allowing them to figure out what they want and what they need rather than just pitching and pushing. like the old school strategies that you've gotten from all...
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DGS 304: Groupthink in Your Property Management Business is Not Leadership
08/22/2025
DGS 304: Groupthink in Your Property Management Business is Not Leadership
Do you ever feel like your team doesn’t share the same vision for your property management company as you? How do you ensure your property management team is motivated and accountable without micromanaging them? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss leadership in property management and getting your team aligned with your vision. You’ll Learn [01:38] Your Business is Not a Democracy and Not a Dictatorship [11:14] Creating Accountability for Your Team [21:20] The Business Owner is the Captain of the Ship [28:34] How to Gain Clarity about Your Business and Team Quotables “If you give the majority in your business a vote to just make a decision about the business and they don't have vision or purpose that they believe in they're going to go towards what makes them more comfortable.” “If you have team members that reject accountability and transparency, they're stealing from you.” “Winners want to be seen and recognized.” “If people are not money motivated, but their only motivation for working for you is money, because they're not really inspired by you to follow you. They're not inspired by your values, by your vision, or by the mission of the company, then they're going to steal from you,” Resources Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) You have to be a leader worth following. You have to have a vision that's worth following and you have to have team members that you've selected that. are the type of people that share your values that would buy into your vision, that do believe you're a leader worth following. We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, built hundreds more than that of websites. We run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the space. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world. and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right. So our topic for today. Sarah was like, what should we talk about? was like, I don't know. What should we talk about? And she's like, well, something's frustrated me lately is. So something that has come up actually twice, I'd say in the last two months. So a little bit more frequent recently is leadership in the business and what the business owner needs to do and what the team needs to do and how those two should interact. Okay. So today we're talking about leadership in property management, specifically being a leader in your property management business. All right. So I was thinking about this and I was thinking about the, and I don't want to say names. Okay. If we give examples. Sure. Of course. Okay. Okay. All right. But they'll know if they hear it, good. Sorry. be good for them. So, yeah, so, you know, we were thinking, we were talking about leadership and, what, what, what was the story? You want to share the story? Okay. Well, this is what you mentioned when I said, should we talk about? Yeah, this is what I mentioned. So there's a business owner that wants to grow the business and wants to grow the team and has a few new hires recently, which is great. And that will get him out of the operational piece, which is also great. And I think he was making the right moves until this happened. And he had recently messaged us and he was going to be moving forward with a few different pieces in his business that we were going to be helping him with, especially with the strategic planning. And then we got a message that essentially said, Hey, we're going to kind of put that on hold. We're going to pause. We're going to take a step back. My team voted. My team voted. and they voted against making these changes. Yeah. And I don't know how to nicely say it. So I guess I'll say it in the way that I know how to. Okay. For the love of God, don't let the team make decisions like that. So everyone, we were talking about it a little bit this morning and the team running the business and doing the day-to-day things and handling tasks, especially the day-to-day tasks. Great. That's fantastic. That's what they're there for. They are there to support you. You are there to guide them. You are there to lead them. we, I feel like it's fitting that this is actually being recorded on Independence Day. And it's funny that I'm going to make this statement on Independence Day. This is not a democracy. Yeah. This is a business. Yeah. And it's also not, as you mentioned, it's not a dictatorship. So it isn't, I'm going to tell you everything and you're just going to go do it. But it's also not, this is what we want. Let's vote and see if we're actually going to do it. So the team needs to look to a leader, one leader usually, to set the vision, to set the mission. and then the team and the leader will fulfill that. Where it gets mucky is when we have the team trying to set the vision for the business or even sometimes with the business owner. Then it gets really, really hard because have you ever had even just a small group of people, if you have three people or four people even, and you go, let's go for lunch, where do you guys wanna go? That can be a tough discussion sometimes. Well, I want Mexican and no, I don't like that. I just had that yesterday. I would rather Italian. I don't want something so heavy. So if such a simple decision can take a really long time and be complex like that, imagine how complex it would be to set the vision and the big goal for the business with the team, with everybody putting their input in. Yeah, that's often called death by committee. yeah. Okay. So I was thinking about this and I was thinking, well, it's not a democracy. It's not a dictatorship. So I was thinking about this and I was, you know, the scripture came to mind where there is no vision that people perish. So I looked it up and I did some research and that's Proverbs 29 18 and the word vision, I guess, is a word. that means like revelation or divine insight or inner guidance and The word perish I'm like does this mean to die? I'm asking chat GPT Like the people die if there is a vision that sounds dramatic and it said that word actually means like to like uncovered or to set loose basically like Getting rid of restraints or becoming undisciplined or becoming lazy or chaotic And, or just focusing on more survival instead of, you know, purpose and vision. And the verse continues, it says, but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. And, know, the law really has to do with, basically it translates basically like you need to be motivated towards some goals. there needs to be vision. otherwise if there aren't constraints or rules or principles to follow then it leads towards chaos and or laziness and so when your team Don't have vision They don't have vision back up. Yeah, so this this law is kind of like divine or universal order there's there's order or there's chaos and without vision and without guidance and without boundaries and without rules People tend to gravitate towards the middle right towards laziness towards chaos And so the team has to be motivated towards some goals. If they're not motivated towards some goals or towards your goals as a business owner, they're not a culture fit. And they can't follow you and you can't lead them. And in order to lead them, you have to have goals. You have to have like provide some purpose. You and. So I thinking about this and I said, if it's not a democracy and not a dictatorship, what would it be? And I guess it would be more like a benevolent theocracy of vision. That's what Chad GPT came up with. Basically a purpose driven monarchy, right? So there's a king, there's a queen and people believe in this person and they choose to follow and trust this person. That's really what a business is better designed to be. Now, why is that? Because democracy, if you give the majority in your business a vote to just make a decision about the business and they don't have Vision or purpose that they believe in they're going to go towards what makes them more comfortable What makes them makes their job easier? It's not going to be what makes you more money. It's not gonna be it's not going to be what grows the business Typically, it's not going to be something that makes them uncomfortable It's not going to be something that adds more work for them Even if it's not actually more work if they perceive it as being more work So let's think about this not gonna do it Yeah, so some business owners think, well, I'll motivate my team. I'll get them all focused on what I want. I'll get them focused on more money. And so they might do something like profit sharing or like bonus structures or giving them a split of revenue. The problem is entrepreneurs, most people are not like you and they don't really care that much about money. So money doesn't really motivate them. I know this is like a big blind spot for entrepreneurs. so profit sharing, money motivation, that doesn't work. with the average person, like most people, most team members. Once their basic needs are met financially, more money's not gonna increase performance, it actually makes it worse. They get more comfortable, they get more lazy, they feel guilty sometimes for taking the money, and then they turn around and they're not gonna not take it, so they have to justify taking it, so they have to make you, the king or queen, the bad guy. Well, they're kind of crappy, so I deserve this. and they have to come up with a reason why they deserve it when they don't feel deep down that they do. And so their performance actually gets worse in a lot of instances. So I think this is a good moment to pause and talk about how to make performance better instead of worse because we don't want that. So if you're looking for something that will make the performance of the team and the day to day of the team and the business a little bit better and easier, you're going to want to hear this. All right, so many of you tell me that maintenance is probably the least enjoyable part of being a property manager and definitely the most time consuming. But what if you could cut that workload up to 85 percent? All right, this is from our sponsor. That's exactly what Vendoroo has achieved. They've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all your maintenance tasks from initiating work orders and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting. This AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee. learning your preferences and executing tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and never quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well-deserved break. Over half the room at last year's Door Girl Live conference signed up with Vendoroo right there and then. They did. A year later, they're not just satisfied, they're raving about how Vendoroo has transformed their business. Don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with Vendoroo. Visit vendoroo.ai/doorgrow today and make this the last maintenance hire that you'll ever need. All right. That was a very well done transition into our sponsor. I was like, Ooh, where can I plug that? Okay. So there you go. So back to what we were talking about. All right. So, can we talk also about some key differences between what the visionary does and what the team does. Just for those of you that are like, I feel like maybe I should get my team's input and I should put things to a vote. I don't see what's wrong with a vote. I don't know why that would be a bad idea. That sounds fair to me. So, mean, we do get input from our team. This is how we've built and wired up our planning system called DoorGrow OS. Which ironically was the thing that they voted against. I know, yeah. Why? Because DoorGrow OS creates accountability. And so if you have team members that reject accountability and transparency, they're stealing from you. Probably. Very likely. Always. And I'll explain this. Because winners want to be seen and recognized. Winners want to be seen and recognized. And that's what DoorGrow OS is. It's a recognition system. It's a goal system. It's a system for moving the business forward. And if your team members are not motivated to benefit the business, that means they're not a culture fit. Then they don't share your values and they will either just do the bare minimum, which is stealing from you. They will subtly sabotage or resist the things that you want to do like DoorGrow OS. Right? Like growing the business, like adding doors, which is stealing from you or they will actually steal time, or cash. It's not always stealing from you to just not want to grow the business, but what it is, is it's killing your opportunity. So now you have like lost opportunity costs. So imagine if you could have been the dominant company in your market. Imagine if you could have been the company that has 1200 doors. and because the team didn't want to do more work, you stay stuck at 250 doors. How sad would that be? How many clients would you be doing a disservice to by not growing your business? How many tenants would suffer with bad property managers? Because we all know there's a lot of those. Bad landlords and bad property managers because you and your team didn't want to grow your business. So my thinking is this, if people are not money motivated, but their only motivation for working for you is money, because they're not really inspired by you to follow you. They're not inspired by your values, by your vision, or by the mission of the company, then they're going to steal from you, either just through being lazy, but they're going to gravitate towards that laziness or chaos. And if you don't give them vision and they're great people, you're creating that. That's what you're creating in your business. And so I think that's why it's important. If you feel uninspired and unmotivated and not excited about your business, your goals are shitty goals. That's the problem. Your goal. You have no real vision. You're operating from within your current level of thinking, which is not vision. That means you have a weak, limited goal and it's not getting your brain to think outside the box or think differently. You need to start creating some impossible goals. And that's probably a whole episode we could talk about. But you need and this is something that we were getting clients to doing and focusing on right now. And they're hitting some really amazing targets and getting some really amazing accomplishments. But you have to start giving your brain a different goal as a tool to think outside the box. And that's your job as a leader is to come up with a bigger vision that makes everyone feel uncomfortable because it's impossible. So it gets everyone to start to think differently. It helps you find a different path than the current grind that you're on. Because that current path is like a slow death for entrepreneur. It's not, it's linear, it's difficult. takes, there's too many steps. You've had goals for years that you probably haven't hit. And if you have been hitting them, it's because you have a big enough vision and your team members then can be excited and believe in you. And so you got to give them something to believe in. That's how you become that benevolent theocracy of vision. So and I think that there is a key difference between the business owner setting the vision and the goals and the mission and getting buy-in from the team and having the right team to make sure that we can fulfill that versus allowing the team to say, well, we don't really want to grow the business. We don't want to get to a thousand doors. That would be insane. That would be so much work. We have 250 doors right now and I'm busy all day long. Oh my God, you want me to get to a thousand? Why would I do that? So we have to remember that there are key differences between a business owner, an entrepreneur and a team member. And now neither one is good or bad. I'm not saying, hey, team members are bad or entrepreneurs are bad. Neither one is good or bad. It's just that a business needs both of those roles because your team members remember that they are employees. They are not entrepreneurs. So they will not think like entrepreneurs because they're not. the four reasons that Jason talks about for starting a business. they're a lot less concerned with those than we are as entrepreneurs. And anyone who has ever owned or started a business, you know you're a little bit weird. You think a little bit differently than most other people do. So you've got team members who do not think like you. That's why they didn't start a business. That's why they're working for someone else. And then we're asking those people to create the vision and the mission for the company. It's not going to work out. It's just not, they don't think the same way that you think. You as a visionary, you will think, hey, this is what we can do. This is what I want to do. This is my whole dream for the business. And team members, they might see it. They might see it from you and believe in it, but very rarely will they go, hey, you know what we should do? What if we did this business owner? If you've got team members like that, congratulations. You've got either entrepreneurs or intrapreneurs on your team, which is very rare. But most of the time, the team members are going to gravitate towards comfort. They don't want the stretch. They don't want the extra work. They don't want the challenge. It's scary. Entrepreneurs are risk takers just by nature. We are willing to do the things that other people are not willing to do. So if we ask our team to vote or ask our team to figure out, what should we do with the company? They're not going to think the same way that you think and they're generally going to gravitate towards Comfort well, hey, we're good right now. Like I don't think anything has to change. Let's just keep doing what we're doing Right. We don't want to hurt our level service. We don't want to lose our clients. Like let's keep things status quo Yeah, and if we do more If we get more doors now, we have to do more work Yeah, they're generally how exciting is that gonna be? Yeah, I would love to triple my work. That would be amazing. Definitely triple my work. Yes, I'm for that. Said no one ever. Except for maybe an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think, your team needs to be people that value accountability and they value transparency because they want to be seen and they want to be...
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DGS 303: Unlocking the Secret to High-Performing Leasing Teams with Peter Roisman
08/15/2025
DGS 303: Unlocking the Secret to High-Performing Leasing Teams with Peter Roisman
In working with property management entrepreneurs, we have noticed that sometimes the leasing side gets neglected. In today’s episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Peter Roisman, founder of REV Leasing, to talk about unlocking the secret to high-performing leasing teams in property management. You’ll Learn [01:38] From the Sports Industry to Innovating in Leasing [06:39] How to Hire an Amazing Leasing Team [20:27] Why Leasing Should be a Priority [28:37] How REV Leasing Can Help You Transform Leasing Quotables “Having instability in that position is kind of dangerous from a property owner standpoint and from a management standpoint as well.” “It felt like, you know, if I could read, write and speak well and clearly and concisely, then it gave me an edge on the majority of the world and the world in general.” “Leasing is sales in a way.” “Owners tend to be focused on the bottom line, on the value they're creating because it's usually long-term and it affects them directly. Third-party managers are trying to get a job done and they're trying to do it as efficiently as possible.” Resources Transcript Peter Roisman (00:00) So I was talking to a high, high up person at live core. this person said to me, Listen, I'm afraid to invest in my leasing people because they turn over so often. You know what I said? I would be afraid not to invest in my leasing people because they turn over so often. Jason Hull (00:14) All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, done websites for hundreds more than that, and we've run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust, gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to expand the market, change perception, build awareness, eliminate the BS, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so today, my guest is Peter Roisman of REV Leasing. Welcome, Peter. Peter Roisman (01:36) Thanks Jason, glad to be here. Jason Hull (01:38) Great to have you. So before we get into REV Leasing and talking about the topic at hand, which is related to leasing teams and getting all that going, give us a little bit of background of how did you get into entrepreneurism and give us the backstory of leading to REV Leasing. Peter Roisman (01:56) Yeah. So I guess I was born to be an entrepreneur because I started my first business at 23 and, uh, stayed in that business for 15 or so years. was a sports agent, sports lawyer, and, ran around the country representing athletes and coaches and other types of sporting celebrities. And then had a younger family and wanted to be home a little more than being on the road 26 weeks a year. So I got into other kinds of businesses. including real estate, started developing surgery centers probably another five years after that, and did that for 10 years, developed 21 surgery centers around six states. And from there, I got into the multifamily leasing business because my business partners, longtime friends, I saw a void in that particular position within the multifamily property management world. As you know, it's a high turnover position and, you know. It's the tip of the spear, as you say, and probably deserves a lot of respect because it's responsible for 97 % plus all revenues. And it's the first person anyone meets on a property. it sets the tone and is really important. And having instability in that position is kind of dangerous from a property owner standpoint and from a management standpoint as well. Jason Hull (03:16) Very cool. So what kind of inspired the, you went from sports to surgery centers to multifamily, then to property management. How did this path work out in your mind? Peter Roisman (03:28) Well, when I was in law school, my wife will remember this, I was debating very hard between being a developer and being a sports lawyer, sports agent. And the sports agent won because I had my first client when I was already in law school. And so, you know, I was started and I got going and didn't have a lot of time for real estate development at the time as I was doing this. And I was always, you my father was a real estate developer as well as a lawyer and it ran in the family. But, you know, a lot of my friends are many decade developers and owners and property managers. And so it was a natural evolution. The development of surgery centers kind of led to the next phase of my real estate journey. Jason Hull (04:07) Got it. Okay. Interesting. Interesting path. What do you feel like, I mean, being a sports agent and doing that, that's a very different and interesting career than doing the property management stuff. What do you feel like that empowered you or educated you on or enabled you to do? I mean, it sounds like there's some unique skills that come along with that. Peter Roisman (04:28) I think so. I like to think that the thing I learned in college and I went to a liberal arts school was to communicate. it felt like, you know, if I could read, write and speak well and clearly and concisely, then it gave me an edge on the majority of the world and the world in general. So. I think, you know, understanding for the sports agency world, had to understand value and marketing as well as contracts and positioning your clients. So, you know, it's not that different if you think of a client as a property in a way. It's how do you position it best? It's kind of similar. It was true when I got to, you know, think that was similar when I was a sports agent, I was managing, you know, high profile. you know, successful, strong ego people. And when I was in the development of surgery center business, the only reason I was able to get in it was because I had done that. You know, doctors very much parallel athletes in that way. They're Jason Hull (05:27) Yeah. Yes, yeah, a lot of ego there. how is that? also curious, part of your job, guess, in being a sports agent with spotting talent and picking potential. How is that translated into business? Peter Roisman (05:43) Well, I think that's absolutely true. And there's a saying that, you know, what determines whether you're a sports agent or not, whether you have a client. Jason Hull (05:52) Yeah. Peter Roisman (05:53) That's your qualifications. If you have a client, you're now a sports agent. So I happen to have a legal background, but many of the people I was competing against in the world of sports agency did not have legal background. They would just hire legal and they were, they were more marketing and recruiting based. And, you know, so I had, I had to take on marketing and recruiting skills and develop them and they had to hire legal so that we were in the same place. Jason Hull (06:17) So you had a little advantage because of the legal act. Peter Roisman (06:21) say a slight advantage and certainly in contracts and negotiating, sure. Jason Hull (06:26) Got it. Okay, so cool. Well, that leads us, you know, towards getting close to REV Leasing. So how did REV Leasing come about? What is it like? Give us, connect us to that. Peter Roisman (06:37) Sure. Yeah, so it's different today than when we started six years ago. We started in 2019. We realized that as we talked a little bit about in the intro here, the leasing position is very important, but really, would say not. The focus on it isn't quite where it should be in order to maximize performance on the property. the turnover is a scary thing. When you have two or three times turnover of the same position in a year, and I think in a statistics was, was more than two times a leasing position turns over a year. it's highly unstable as a position that's that destabilizes properties. And so we realized that, you know, what people were doing to fill those voids, the job openings, a lot of times was hiring temp agencies, BG and Liberty being the two largest. And, and oftentimes these were either recycled people from, from who put in a resume that said, Hey, I leasing somewhere else, or they were people really lacking qualifications and, and each of those presents a problem. And so what we realized was we could go outside of the industry, find talented people who could communicate and, and train them to be successful leasing agents. And so we did this about 500 times and we only took. under 1 % of the candidates, we looked at resumes and took a half of 1 % and hired those people and trained them and put them out there in the field. think at any given time, the most people we had working on our team was about between 80 and 90. And so we had a pretty sizable kind of leasing replacement business, if you will. And so then from there, realized our first person we hired and trained was a manager of a restaurant. And so she went out on property. We only had a trainer for maybe two weeks, which was not a full training program. It was a partial training program, but the client needed it. And so we put her out there and within a couple of days, they wanted to hire her from us as a property manager. we thought, check the box. We had done something correct for the industry because the industry recognized it. from there, we did that for a while and we realized. it would be hard to manage hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of people across the country. It's a very challenging ordeal to try to do that. And so we didn't want to be in this. grand scale human capital business. So we realized that we wanted to be great leasing teams. And so we built these these teams. We took the best people from our 500. We put them on these teams that, you know, if you've heard of the company class, it's sort of like what we became. They're these expert leasing teams that do lease ups and distressed properties and come in and fix a problem and then depart. And so that's what we did for our next, you know, iteration of our business. We did that for a couple of years. We had all success. had no failures. We took properties that were anywhere from 78 % occupied to low 80s. And we took them well into the mid 90s and all the properties were stabilized and the owners were happy. that was great. But again, we realized the same thing happened. We could become class. I think they have 50 people leasing for them at any given time. But we didn't want to be that, again, that human capital business. So we again, reinvented ourselves and now this is where we are today. We invented ourselves to be a product company. And so we've got two products, essentially. One is an assessment tool, a REV Leasing score, if you will. And one is a training program. you know, 130 online training courses and we customize the training courses to the people who are supposed to learn. so, you know, It's an opportunity for us to help the broader market because we're not limited by human capital. ⁓ We can help hundreds, if not thousands of properties at the same time because it's a self-learning program. We can do some consulting to get them on the right track, but essentially it's an ongoing process of self-improvement and people getting better to capture more revenues. Jason Hull (10:52) Got it. So the assessment tool piece helps to figure out if somebody could be a good leasing agent or is this broader than that? Peter Roisman (11:00) Well, that's one way to look at it. I think we're taking people as we find them. So let's say we find a client, they have 10 properties and they might have anywhere between 10 and 20 leasing people. And so... We'll train them all and each one of them doesn't need the same thing. So we will customize the programs. And so as we assess them, we come up with scores and we know where some of their gaps are, if you will. And, you know, the three major areas, if you had to pick three areas that are common for focus in our business today, it's discovery, it's benefits selling, and it's closing. And so we find that if agents can do those three things exceptionally well, that covers most of the ground. Now there are other, you know, there's seven or eight other major topics, but those are the three, big three I like to call them. Jason Hull (11:52) for leasing agents to get properties leased. Those are the major things. Peter Roisman (11:53) Correct. Yeah, I can explain why real quickly if you want. It's, you know, discovery is where they get to know the person that walks through the door, right? And so once they know the person, then they can benefit sell to fit the person's needs and desires. And so if they haven't done a good job in discovery, they're certainly not going to do a good job of benefits. And so, but while this is all going on, they're moving towards closure, asking for the lease, right? And so. Those are the three areas. There's, as I said, seven other areas. We have about 10 major topics. And so, you know, that's kind of where we are with our course training. Jason Hull (12:32) So it really sounds a lot like sales training. Peter Roisman (12:35) Yeah, it's absolutely leasing is sales in a way. mean, it's connecting with the person, understanding their needs and desires, upselling if you can a little bit. mean, there's just, want to create a home for someone, right? And sometimes that home has to double as an office, right? We've seen that a lot lately in the world. And so, you know, if that's an opportunity, that might be a great benefit sell, right? That's something, if you have to work from home, listen, we have the highest speed internet available. We have this area of your home where you could use it as an office. You know, those are the kinds of thoughts that we put into our training. Jason Hull (13:12) Yeah, now you guys were in the placement sort of space and now you're more in the education sort of space. Do you guys still get involved in placement or do you partner with companies that do placement and to provide training material to them? Peter Roisman (13:25) That's a great question. We are not really in the placement business, but we're actually in discussions right now with a placement company to up train their leasing placements so that they go in with higher levels of skill and perform better when they land. yes, that's something we're actually, it's funny you mentioned it because I have a meeting on Wednesday, a second meeting to discuss that exact topic. Jason Hull (13:51) Okay, cause I was thinking, man, maybe I should connect this guy to my contacts at sunroom and some others. okay. Yeah. All right. Very cool. So, you mentioned earlier when you were kind of entering sort of this space that you noticed some people had bad habits, they lacked skill. Um, I think one of the big mistakes that I've seen in the industry, and maybe you could touch on this is that a lot of people. Peter Roisman (13:58) Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (14:18) like property managers when they're trying to hire somebody for their team, they get caught up in this really limited thinking that I have to find somebody with property management experience. And it really seriously limits the candidate pool to the point where they almost really can't get good candidates. And they're getting people with bad habits, like old dogs who can't teach new tricks to maybe people that are like, or they have to go and find people with no skill. Peter Roisman (14:32) So. That's so true. Jason Hull (14:47) or that are the wrong personality fit for the role, instead of just going find somebody that, for example, is just good at sales in general, and maybe has some natural personality towards sales that can be trained in property management. What are your thoughts on that? What have you seen? Peter Roisman (15:02) That's exactly the premise that we started our business on six years ago. We realized that it would be harder to untrain someone and then teach them from, if you could get them near scratch, to teach them from the ground up, then it would be to find people with those personality traits and skills, communication skills, and just start them at zero. You don't have to undo anything to start the training process. So at those 500 people we trained and hired, none of them had any leasing experience. And so that's precisely what we did. And I think the more that the industry looks outside of itself and doesn't, by the way, someone that shows a resume with leasing may or may not be good. But I can tell you this, the way promotions happen, as you know, if you're very, very good at leasing, what happens? You get offered a manager's job. That's very typical in our industry. And so if you're offered a manager's job, oftentimes takes you away from the leasing floor and you're looking at a computer all day. And so those skills that you use really well to lease apartments don't necessarily mean you're going to be great at being a manager. It doesn't mean you won't be, but it doesn't mean they translate directly to it. the people that, so you have that group of people that got promoted, right? Out of the leasing position. What about the people that don't get promoted? Those are the people whose resumes are circulating. If you think about it, not, it's the unpromoted talent pool that most people are looking through. They're sifting through trying to find the diamond in the rough. Jason Hull (16:31) Yeah. Yeah. I think salespeople like business development managers, for example, in a property management business and property managers, which are, you is a really loose term in this industry. It's a miscellaneous term that means just about anything, depending on who you ask. But in general, property managers, if you look at them as customer service people or client success people or client retention people, that's a very different personality type than a salesperson. And so I would imagine that some of these, some of your training and some of these people that are coming up in as great leasing agents would probably like if they were going to take a step up, it would be towards being a business development manager. Cause those are important people. They bring in money into the business. Peter Roisman (17:24) They bring in all the money into the business other than pet fees and parking fees and who knows what these minor minor fees. So I think one way to look at it is because of the promotion up and out right up and over to manager from leasing from sales. Jason Hull (17:26) Yes. Peter Roisman (17:41) You know, we like to recommend for our clients that they create a sales silo, if you will. So when they get promoted, they get promoted to a manager of, instead of the person on the...
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DGS 302: What Jason Learned in the Last Year in Business, Relationships, & Life
08/08/2025
DGS 302: What Jason Learned in the Last Year in Business, Relationships, & Life
For Jason’s 48th birthday, we held an in-person sales workshop event for property management business owners in Orlando. What he didn’t know was that his wife, daughter, team, and clients had a surprise for him! In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss what Jason has learned in the last year in business, relationships, and life, and what he’s looking forward to in the next year. You’ll Learn [01:48] Reflecting on a Year of Innovation at DoorGrow [07:36] A Year of Relationship Growth [16:27] The Power of Being Able to Ask for Help [22:10] Shifting Your Beliefs and Setting Goals Quotables “Because boundaries are about setting your locus of control, not trying to control somebody else.” “If you have a partner that's growing, if you're with them, you're tethered to this roller coaster that's on the move.” “Leadership is about inspiring others to be willing to support and follow you.” Resources Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) Yeah, no big deal. Just a bunch of property managers about to take over the whole industry. That's what I feel like us and our clients are really going to do is we're going to dominate the entire industry. Hi everybody. So I'm Jason Hull and this is Sarah Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow and the COO of DoorGrow, co-owners. And this is the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We... have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. All right, now let's get into the show. All right, so today is June 30th, which is my birthday. So some of you may see this later. You may see the recording later. We'll broadcast it live later, because that's what we do now. But it's my birthday today. And so we were thinking like, Happy birthday to me. So I am 48 years old. Sarah surprised me. We came out to Orlando. to do a sales training event to teach our clients on the new model of selling stuff that we've been doing, to teach them my framework, the golden bridge formula, which I am now just starting to work on writing a book about that I think could revolutionize sales. And she surprised me by having my daughter, Madi who's our head of client success, be here. and our clients be here the first day we got in, which I didn't expect. And they said surprise and they surprised me and we all hung out and it was very cool. And so I appreciate that. And so we were thinking like, what should we talk about today? my suggestion was let's talk about the last year and how things are different for you and then what you're hoping for in the next year. So yeah, reflecting, so we actually do our planning year at DoorGrow starting on July 1st, not because of my birthday on June 30th, but because we want to offset it by two quarters because kind of trying to reach end of the year goals and hit your goals and strive towards success and winning as a company doesn't really work out super well at during the holidays when everybody's focused on family and Christmas and stuff like that. And so we offset it. And so that we're hitting the end of our planning year in the middle of the summer, which really allows us to focus on things, get excited about new things and our upcoming plan. And so this is the end of our planning year. And it's also end of the next year of my life here on the earth. And so this is a good opportunity to reflect just on like what have we accomplished in the last year. And we've made a lot of changes at DoorGrow, so What are some of the things that we've accomplished at DoorGrow in the last year? I think one of the big things that we did is we added more to the onboarding and now we're doing some of the onboarding with clients in person. So it used to all just be, you know, kind of talk with us and meet with us on Zoom and talk with us on Telegram and, you know, watch some courses on DoorGrow Academy. And there is still all of that. And then of course you get your one-on-one meetings with coach for the first couple of weeks and we walk you through everything and make sure that you have access and make sure you know where to find everything and that you can log in and you know how to use it. And then there's another part of it that we bring you guys out to the North Austin, Texas area and we do a one day deep dive into your business. And that that's been a big shift. We have been doing that for just about a year now Yeah, it's really there's something we've noticed and I call it the real bubble there's this bubble or this perception that we have to burst that the internet zoom calls videos like this are not real life and We have to break that or burst that bubble and connect them to us being real people because we're actually real people Like you can fist bump us, hug us, give us a high five, give us a hug. Like we're real people. But until we pass that barrier with our clients, we've noticed they don't get as good of results. They don't absorb the content the same because this is not real life in their mind. So videos in DoorGrow Academy. so yeah, the in-person onboarding has been a really big deal in allowing us to really get to know clients better, to connect with them. get people breakthroughs, usually we can offset the cost of the whole program, maybe even in that first in-person session. So that can be pretty powerful. And it's really increased our retention rate. It's really allowed us as coaches to keep clients more engaged and have them stay a lot longer. Yeah, and I think it makes us a lot more accessible to people. Because until you meet us in person, it's like, you can message us any time. Sometimes people feel a little weird about doing that. Sometimes they don't know, am I allowed to do that? Or should I reach out? Or no, I don't want to bother them with that. But it's just so much more personal once you meet us in person. then it's like there's so much more of a deeper connection and relationship. And then people go, ⁓ yeah, they'll know the answer. I can talk to them at any point. And then they really start to leverage that resource. So yeah, we've spent the last several years making a lot of improvements to our program. And I think the last several years, this last year, we've really put a lot of attention on lead generation, on focusing on how to actually grow our business now that we've got the program even more well dialed in and figuring out how can we reach more people. And ⁓ even just recently, we got some really strong breakthroughs in how I think we could help a lot more people. a lot more quickly and just optimizing our sales process, which I think is just, I'm really excited about. Like I'm really excited about the stuff that we're rolling out and that we're doing at DoorGrow. Personally, man, I feel like this has been a big year of growth for me personally. A lot of changes. I feel like our relationship has evolved a lot. Like it's been, you know, I think coming into a new relationship. and we've been together, we've known each other for total maybe what did you say today, six years? He's listening, yeah, almost six years. Almost six years. I'm bad with dates, stuff like that. yeah, almost six years. so, yes, we've known each other for a little while, but I feel like I'm just now starting to get clarity on some of the things, my own issues, some of the things that have helped me back, some of my own insecurities, some of my own challenges. This year has been a year of me really learning and growing in relationship. I feel like quite a bit as well. But I think one of the things I've noticed in you, especially over the last year, is you you shift much more easily into leadership at home with the family. Okay. Yeah. I think I've put a lot of study into the masculine and the feminine and just recognizing my role as being a leader and being willing to lead. And I think that allows you to feel lot safer and calmer. in the relationship. yeah, yeah, for sure. Which also makes me feel a lot safer and calmer in the relationship. And so I think there's a lot of men that you see out there complaining about women. You see a lot of women complaining about men. And I think really, I really do believe that men really are meant to lead in that. And that leading doesn't mean controlling. It doesn't mean bossing people around. Leadership is about inspiring others to be willing to support and follow you. And I think men are meant to be leaders. Like if they don't step out and be leaders, I think it's men's responsibility. And so if men are complaining about women, well, it's your fault guys. And if women are complaining about men, you're right. It's the men's fault. That's how I view it. Women, women. So it's your fault no matter what, men. Yes. Like, yeah. Because if men really stand up and they really lead and they're meant to be leaders and they're not waiting for women to change and trying to hold their breath till women change and they change, I believe that if they lead and they take responsibility and they work on themselves, women in their life, if the women love them, will follow and they will allow these men to step into leadership because that allows them to feel safer and to calm down and to like... relax into the feminine. And so I think for a lot of men it's about shattering their own feminine frame and there's a great book on that I read that really kind of changed things for me that is called Shattering the Feminine Frame by Jerr J-E-R-R. I thought that was a brilliant book. I've given it to some guy friends and that were kind of in that feminine frame of that. And the feminine frame for guys is that they're trying to please, they're trying to please their partner, please their girlfriend, please their spouse. They're trying to please everybody else. And in that state of pleasing, they become unsafe to everyone around them. They're not leading. And it's not appealing or generally attractive to most women when a guy's in that state. So that's something that I've shifted more into in stepping more into the masculine and stepping more into leadership. And The thing I think that's key that I understood from that book and his other book, which is called The Wall Speaks by Jerr, J-E-R-R, this philosopher. The other basic principle is that men really need to believe in themselves. Like if they believe in themselves, a lot of times men were trying to get belief from our partner. Like I love when Sarah believes in me. It's everything. Like men are constantly trying to get women to believe in them. It's the thing we crave. However, if a man is always trying to place his locus of control for belief and power in his woman, then the problem is she now feels unsafe and she's way less likely to believe in him. And so I think one of things I've realized is that I have to believe in myself. I have to believe in me first. Even if it's unrealistic or crazy, I have to have unrealistic. impossibly amazing self-belief. And if I believe in myself, then everyone around me believes in me too. And if they don't, it doesn't matter anymore. If I believe enough in myself, either everyone else will go, my gosh, this person's amazing. I believe in them too. I want to follow this person. I want this person to lead me, they won't and you won't care because your self-belief is so strong. And so I think it's really important for guys to develop that self-belief and not try to put that onto their partner. Because that's a really big burden for me to throw on your shoulders. Well, and I think for women, I can't speak for all women, but for myself, it's really hard to have belief in someone or something that isn't confident in themselves. So if I'm more confident in you than you are in you, there's a problem. At least I do, like we can tell. We can just tell. yeah. Women can smell weakness because women are kind of born from birth, like having to deal with fear and having to deal with the dangers of society and men and difficulty things and whatever. Like men, we're not afraid to walk down the street generally. We're not worried about somebody hurting us. Like we're generally the stronger half of the species, you know? And we just, don't have that mindset. We're not like looking for safety in a lot of instances. The thing we're looking for, physical safety, what we are looking for a lot of times is emotional safety. And we try to create that by pleasing. And maybe if I'm nice enough, she will be kind and it usually works out the opposite way. because women want to test our strength and they want to test us emotionally, see if we are stable enough to support them and to handle them. And if we do, we kind of pass that unconscious test that they throw at us that they now can lean into us and feel safe and go, this man is a rock. This man is stable. I can have my feminine emotional waves of things going on and he is still that stable grounded rock that I can, know. I can lean on. So that's been a big deal for me is to kind of take back that locus of control because I'm on my third marriage. This is like, I spend a lot of years thinking the game was happy wife, happy life, and I have to please my partner. And that becomes a really uncomfortable game if you have an unpleasable partner. And a lot of times by trying to please your partner, you end up doing the opposite. Like it makes them feel less and less safe and less and less pleased. And they want you to just step up and lead and plan some date nights and like... make some decisions and let them actually relax and be in the feminine occasionally, right? And Sarah has to step into her masculine a lot in business and in work. And so I think being able to come home and being able to sometimes with me relax into the feminine is probably feels good. I don't know. Yeah, there are times and I think in every relationship you can kind of figure out what are the things that each person prefers to handle. So for me, there are certain things that even if he did it, I would still want to go back and probably redo it or there would be things that I would have to confirm or check on because I wanted exactly a certain way. And if it's not, you know, exactly the way that I pictured it in my head, then I'm just not going to be satisfied. And then I'm going to feel like man, I should have just done it myself. So if you have those things and it can be anything, you just kind of have to figure out, what are the things that each partner wants to do? and really what are the things that each partner can rely more on the other one for. Like every time we travel, my brain would not be able to handle it if he handled the travel details. Like booking the dogs and booking the hotels or the Airbnb, like where we're at right now, the Airbnb, or getting the flights and figuring out rental cars and all of the things. I just, I... First all, it's fun for me to do that. And second of all, I wanted a very specific way. There's a right side of the airplane for me to sit on. It happens to be the right side. So if he books the ticket and then he puts me on the left side of the airplane, it's not that it's wrong, but it's sort of wrong. By the way, I upgraded our flights on the way home. And I got you an aisle seat. And I'm next to you. because I know you love that and we're on the right side of the play. Okay, so you did it the right way. That's good. So there you go. So part and you know, part of that is also getting to really know and care about your partner. Like I take a lot of notes. I've got a lot of notes in my notes file. I have a whole folder in my notes app on my iPhone called Sarah. So I think I have like 80 notes in there. Yeah, that's how complex you are. So yeah, because I study her because you know, I want to win the game. win the game of marriage and of life, but part of winning the game is not just being a pleaser and trying to please all the time. It's also recognizing my own boundaries and my own needs emotionally and being willing to ask. That's been a hard thing for me. That's really hard for you, which is so interesting because I don't feel like that's something that I struggle with. What I struggle with, I struggle with asking for help. I am not good at asking people for help. because the way I grew up, it was viewed as weakness. If you need help, it's because you're weak. If you need help, it's because you don't know how to do it. If you need help, it's because you're less than. You're not good enough, you're not enough, you're not smart enough, you're not strong enough. It's whatever it is. So for me, it's so hard to ask for help. So my ways of asking for help are instead of directly asking or especially nicely asking, the way that most people would say, Hey, could you please help me with this thing? Like I can't, I just, I can't seem to bring myself to ask that way. So I'll start to do something and then hope that somebody picks up on the cues that I'm giving, like sighing, like, like I'll wait. There was like a big, you know, case of water that I'm carrying. Like I'll carry everything else or I'll try, like try to go pick up the water and can I do it myself? Yes, of course I can. But it's nice when your partner goes, hey, you know what? Do want me to help you with that? I'm like, yes, yes, I do. Because then I didn't have to ask. So I'm not good at asking for help, but you're not generally good at asking for what you want, which is really interesting. Because when I want something, I'm very good at just saying, and I don't generally ask, I just state it. It's more of a statement. I want this, I want that, I don't want this, I want this. So I'm very good at saying, this is what I want. I'm not great at asking for help, but you're... really not great at asking for what you want. Well I think part of that is I grew up in this really conservative religious culture in which you were kind of the the right way of being was to self-sacrifice and to serve others and do it wasn't about what you want it was about taking care of everybody else and doing what God wants and what others want and it was not about what you want. And so I think that that But if you don't ever ask for what you want or do things or try to get what you want out of life, then you end up depleted. You end up miserable. You end up frustrated. You end up wondering why nobody cares about you and other people might. They just can't serve you or reciprocate or benefit you if you don't ask them for what you want. And I mean, you know, it's it's so simple that sometimes I make such a big deal about it. But if I just ask you for something....
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DGS 301: Setting Impossible Goals to Grow Your Property Management Business Faster
07/25/2025
DGS 301: Setting Impossible Goals to Grow Your Property Management Business Faster
What are some of your goals you have for your property management business? Do these goals inspire you? Do these goals make you feel motivated to take action TODAY? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull share ideas they learned from Dr. Benjamin Hardy at Mastermind in Paradise surrounding impossible goal setting as a strategy for growing faster. You’ll Learn [01:25] Using Goals and Time as Tools for Growth [07:51] Changing Your Mindset [12:25] Changing Your Goals Changes Your Priorities Quotables “Goals that we set usually that are realistic are based on our current level of thinking.” “If we only operate based on our current level of thinking, we don't grow.” “You need to have something that's going to stretch you out of your current comfort zone and your current level of thinking.” Resources Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) if you felt uninspired in your business, you're not getting the growth that you want, you're on a bad All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profits, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. Okay, so we just recently got back from Mexico. We got back from Mexico and we had a good trip there. So what do we go to Mexico to do? We actually went to Mastermind in Paradise. which was incredible. It was absolutely incredible. It was actually better than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, it was really cool. We got to connect and network with a lot of really cool people. And one of the key speakers that we got to do a private session with, with a small group was Dr. Benjamin Hardy. So Ben Hardy has written some amazing books. 10X is easier than 2X, The Gap and the Gain, Who Not How, and we got a preview of two of his upcoming books one is time as a tool and the other is the science of scaling and everybody's mind were blown at this event and he He shared a different framework for how to look at goals. And so do you want to explain this? Why don't you why don't you explain it? Okay, and then i'll chime in. Okay So this is really exciting. So A lot of times we set goals that are realistic and the challenge with realistic goals, goals that we set usually that are realistic are based on our current level of thinking. Our current level of thinking is the current problem. it's a limited thing. It's, it's our current thoughts and capacity and abilities and ideas. And if we only operate based on our current level of thinking, we don't grow. And so these are crappy goals. These are not effective goals to get us inspired, to get us excited. So I realized I in some ways felt really unmotivated because I've had a goal for a while to get to a certain growth level and impact level and revenue level, but it was a linear goal. It was a realistic goal. was making sure the goal was realistic, that I could see how to do it. And then it just meant more work because it was realistic. I was just thinking, this is what I know how to do now. And I just need to do based on my current level of thinking, more work, like 10 times more work if I want to get. 10 times bigger. And that's just such a grind. It's just really draining. So if you felt unmotivated, if you felt uninspired in your business, you're not getting the growth that you want, you're on a bad path currently. path is not is a path based on your current reality, which means you're not thinking differently. And so he talked about how it's important, essential to have impossible goals. You have to pick a goal. that is impossible or unrealistic or unreasonable based on your current level of thinking. And if you pick a goal that is currently impossible or unreasonable, what's amazing is your brain is like a masterful supercomputer. It's like a quantum computer and your unconscious mind and your subconscious and eventually your conscious mind will come up with ideas, new ways of thinking. If the goal is outside of your current level of thinking, it's currently impossible with your current level of thinking. And so this was where the goal becomes a tool to get you to think differently. And so if you view goals instead of as something you have to hit or you beat yourself up or you try to hit because you want something and you try to get yourself really motivated, that's, think that's a poor way of thinking about the goal. The goal really is a tool to help you to think differently and help you to grow and help you to expand and get into a new mode and new level of thinking. And then he compounded that with talking about time. And you can either make the goal way bigger to the point where it becomes impossible. And so you have to start finding new ways of thinking. Or you can shift the timeline to take your goals, like a lot of property managers say, I want to add 100 doors in a year. That's a crappy goal. I mean, it's a realistic goal. It's a decent goal. And we help lots of clients do that. But that's not a really exciting, inspiring goal. But what if you shift the timeline to 90 days? That sounds impossible at first, like 100 doors in 90 days. And I shared this with some clients just before this call. I was on a call with some clients and suggested that some of them were like my goals 100 doors. But now based on what Jason's saying, I'm going to make it a 90 day goal. And then they start thinking of ideas. They start thinking like, what if I just found four real estate agents that have 25 units? They're tired of managing. I could hit a hundred doors. What if I found one small acquisition deal? What if I found an investor? One of our clients on the call says he has an investor right now that's going to has like 120 units that he's going to onboard another investor with 40 units. And he's just like growing rapidly. Now he's fast on his way to being at a thousand units. It's going to happen. And so his goal is to get the 3000. He's now making a bigger goal. Yeah. Yeah. So So you need to have something that's going to stretch you out of your current comfort zone and your current level of thinking. you know, but some of the people on the call were like, well, if I shoot for this goal in 90 days and I don't hit it, I said, well, what if you only got 50 in 90 days? Would you beat yourself up and feel horrible? They laughed and they're like, no. I said, what if you got 25 units in 90 days? Would you beat yourself up and feel horrible? They said, no, of course not. Because their goal was a hundred in a year originally. So it's just having a better tool to give you a better path. And the current path that you're on towards a goal that you have, it's not the same path. It has to be a completely different path. It's like trying to fly to Hawaii versus New York. It's a completely different path to get to a much better destination. It's a totally different path. You cannot just 10 times the amount of phone calls that you're gonna make or 10 times the amount of hustle they're going to do to hit this goal in 90 days or to hit your five year goal in a year or to, do something 10 X bigger or a hundred times bigger. You have to find a different path. And so when you get your brain working on that, you will start to find different paths. You will start to connect with others that may be able to put you on a different path and at DoorGrow, That's one of the things we do for clients is we help them have a bigger vision and we help give them, one of those who's he talks about. Finding a who not a how and new who's can give you new paths and this is what we do We give clients a new path to get to these goals that they weren't able to think of before So that's my two cents on it. So I Think that's pretty good and then also when when the book comes out because you can't get it yet We were lucky enough to to preview it. Yeah, so when the book comes out Definitely make sure that you read it. It is so fantastic. I don't even have enough good things to say about it. And Dr. Benjamin Hardy he's phenomenal. And all of his stuff is really good, but he pursues excellence in everything that he does. He doesn't want to just write a book and publish a book. He wants it to be a masterpiece, like an absolute work of art. that really comes across in his work and hearing him speak. And it was great that we got to be a part of that, Do you remember him talking about the floor? Could you touch on the idea of the floor and how setting a big goal changes the floor? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's something that you and I have both been really questioning. when he talks about what is your floor? So this is kind of like the minimum that you will allow. What are the lowest level things that you will do? And when you have a goal, like let's just say it is 100 doors in a full year, does that mean that you need to do anything today? No. No. No, because you have 364 other days. Does that mean on the weekend you have to work? No. No, not really. Does that mean that you have to give up certain things? Not really, because I can probably figure it out. But if you now have a goal of 100 doors in, let's say, 30 days, do you have to do something today? Probably. Absolutely. On the weekend? Absolutely. Do you have to sacrifice certain things? Absolutely. No, is it forever? No. And the things that we need to be able to give up are the things that are now below the floor. And all that essentially means is anything that is, I would call it a distraction, anything that is not in alignment with this big, huge goal that you're working on, that now falls below the floor. So you should not... be doing that. So if you say, hey, I want 100 doors, I'm gonna go do in 30 days. Does that mean for the next 30 days, you're gonna be watching any amount of Netflix? Probably not. no, it doesn't. Now forever and ever, Netflix is not gone, it's just gone while you're trying to hit this crazy goal that you've got. And what if your goal isn't even 100 doors in 30 days? What if it's a thousand doors in 30 days? There are certain things you are not going to be able to focus on at all. There are certain things that you will not be able to fit into your schedule. There are certain things that you will go, wow, if it's at all possible for me to hit this goal, I can't do this thing. I'm going to have to give it up. And that might be Cooking, might be cleaning, doing your laundry, washing your car, driving your kids to school, spending time with your family for a small short period of time. It might be answering phone calls, talking to tenants, writing leases, doing showings, doing accounting, if that's not your thing, right? It could be so many different things. Because any of those things that I just mentioned, is that going to get you a thousand doors in 30 days? No. It sure isn't. So all of those things now, they either become something that gets in your way or something that is a distraction, something that is an obstacle for you to be able to hit this huge goal. It doesn't mean you have to give it up forever, but it does mean that it's now not high enough of a priority for you to continue to do it. And we talk about this a lot on time studies. when we have our clients do time studies, we talk about it through a very different lens. So this is a really great lens to kind of talk about the same topic. But when I look at someone's time study, I always ask them, why are you doing that? Why are you the one who's doing that? Somebody should be doing that. You should offload this. Why is this still on your to-do list? Why are you the one who's doing this again? And it's always the same thing, oh, because I feel like I have to. But when you have this huge goal, the thing that you feel like you have to do is hit the goal, not all of this other stuff. Yeah. Well, raise the, when you raise the goal up to a much bigger goal, your floor automatically raises. There's always going to be stuff you finally stop tolerating because you have this big vision. It's exciting. It's inspiring. It's something you actually want and you're motivated to do it. And so you have to change your level of thinking, which also means you have to give up stuff that you've been holding onto. because you didn't really have a good enough excuse to get rid of it anyway, but there's stuff that you have to do. Like I can no longer be taking sales calls from people that no show. So I have my team members canceling a large percentage of my calls. Like we started making a ton of changes and it took me, I was like, I sat with the question, like we closed, I think, what? 13 deals in the last month. think 13 or 14. 14, I don't know. Yeah. And I'm like, how can I do 100? How can I 10X this? If we're doing on average, maybe 10 or something. How can I do a hundred? And I was like, that's impossible. But I sat with it for like a week, week and a half. And then all of a I had all these ideas. I would have to stop doing this. I would have to stop taking calls like this. I would have to stop doing that. What if every person that showed up to the call, I could have a single call close because they already had clarity on their problem. They already were trained on what they need. They already went over our offer. And so I'm now building that out. And it was like, it's a completely different path. than what I was on, which was like to 10 X our business wasn't a big enough goal. And now I'm trying to like 10 X it in a month, which would hundred X our business. Right. And so I had to come up with a completely different path. And what's surprising to me is a lot of the ideas were already in my head. They were things I had seen videos I had seen, but my brain was not able to put them together to help me achieve a goal because my goal was so weak that it was all very realistic and doable. just needed to get more salespeople and get more setters and like do more lead generation. And I don't have to change anything on the front end. I can just change our internal processes. And I think we could 10 X the business. And so I started seeing a different path and my brain started pulling out different ideas that I'd heard of in the past and piecing them together. And I came up with a whole new set of ideas. And it was just based on it was stuff that was already in my brain, but it wasn't at my current level of thinking was above my current level of thinking. So I raised my goal and it raised my level of thinking so I could tap into all this other stuff I had in my head. And it also raised the floor. So there's a lot of things I'm cutting out. I am not going to have people no show. I'm canceling people if they don't confirm their appointment. My team are canceling them. And so then they can warm and nurture these people up. But I'm going to be talking to people that are committed, ready to show up. and are already qualified and already know what they need to do. And I have a team that's facilitating that. And so like we've made some big moves, big changes, and I'm excited. So now I'm building out all this stuff and building out different things and building out a completely different path. And we've had clients go from 100 to 1000 doors. We had a client do that in one year because he found a different path because his path to get to 100 was not the same path he could do to get to 1000 in a year. He couldn't follow the same path, so he had to come up with something else. And what's surprising is the path for him to get to a thousand was way easier than what it took him to get to a hundred. And that's the idea of 10 X is easier than two X. The path I'm setting up for our sales system is easier than me grinding through a hundred sales calls in a month. It's going to be way easier. And I can even spend less time on these calls because they're coming more prepared. And so when you have big goals, you have big thinking. you find way better paths, which is the idea. So use either the goal as a tool, make that goal much bigger, or collapse time and use time as a tool and you will actually speed up time and it actually gets easier to reach the goal. That's the idea. So we're super pumped, I'm super pumped. I'm like really pumped about the business right now. Like I'm really excited. and then I'm really excited because our clients are getting this tech mentally. I'm already training and coaching them on setting up these goals and helping them understand time and goals as a tool. And so they are going to be the most innovative property managers in the industry. That's going to be our group. And so they're going to come up with the best ideas. And so you want to be part of this mastermind. It's going to be the freaking best thing on the planet for property manager. I'm super pumped because nobody else has big crazy goals like our clients. Like they've already had big goals that outpace anyone else in their markets. Now they're getting ridiculous and unreasonable and impossible and they're going to find solutions to this. And I'm excited to see what they innovate and share it with everybody else. So stay tuned y'all DoorGrow's about to get crazy. So, all right. that's basically it. Let's wrap up. All right. So if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, Reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Also join our free Facebook community for just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and please leave us a review. We would really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone
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DGS 300: Building Wealth with Rental Properties with Dustin Heiner
07/18/2025
DGS 300: Building Wealth with Rental Properties with Dustin Heiner
As a property manager, you know the value you provide to real estate investors. You offer peace of mind, safety and certainty, and expertise. What if every investor found a property manager to partner with before even contacting a realtor? On today’s episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with real estate investing author and coach Dustin Heiner to talk about building wealth through real estate investing and the role of property managers. You’ll Learn [06:06] Dustin's Journey to Financial Independence [17:48] The Importance of Property Management in Real Investing [30:04] The Importance of Finding Clients You Want to Work With [41:42] Investing as A Property Management Business Owner Quotables “If you try to serve people, then your life is going to get better.” “If you don't have your business that could run itself, then you're going to be losing money.” “Your property manager is absolutely your quarterback.” Resources Transcript Dustin Heiner (00:00) this is the number one thing that I teach all my students, the first thing they always say, Hey Dustin, I found a great city to invest in. I've already got five realtors sending me deals. said, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Let's say you bought one of those properties. Who's going to manage that? And they said, I don't know. I said come on. Like you, you're putting the cart way before the horse realtors are the last thing because you need to make sure that the business is going to run perpetually without you. Cause the last thing you want is another job. Jason Hull (00:26) All right, we are live. I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, and we have the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. I'm hanging out today with Dustin Heiner who is successfully unemployed, according to his shirt. it for those that can't see this later. So Dustin, welcome to the DoorGrow show. Dustin Heiner (01:53) Jason, thank you so much for having me on the show. just love, I love property managers. I'm a real estate investor, bought property since 2006. Just, I don't know, I've got 30 plus properties, 750 apartment unit complexes and hotels I invest in. And I love not doing any work because my property managers are amazing. it takes a lot of time finding the right property managers, but in the end they make my life easier and I love paying them. They're only one of two people I love to pay, my accountant and my property managers, because they make my life easier. I love that you have this show. I'm super pumped to be on, so thank you so much for having me. Jason Hull (02:31) Awesome. I love the positivity because a lot of my clients get a lot of... How do we say it? Shit. Really. And you know, they feel unappreciated in a lot of... So I know there's a lot of listening. They're like, man, I want investors like this guy. But yeah, I love that you love paying property managers. I think I've said on one of my TikToks or reels, I said, the biggest mistake landlords make... with rental properties is not hiring a property manager. And during this process. Dustin Heiner (03:01) I don't want to deal with tenants personally. I invested so that my property would work for me and I did not want to handle talking to tenants. In fact, I did at the beginning, I started talking to tenants, but I found out I'm a pushover because it's my property and I'm trying to be nice and everything like that. And it's so much better when there's a middle man that's going to be there. I tell my property managers, use me as the bad guy. Like say, this landlord, he's a jerk, but this is what we got to do. I want to help them to make it easier on them, but in the end they make my life easier. yeah, I absolutely love that. Well, one thing you and I both know, property managers should be investing themselves too. They should be grabbing properties. if you know of a, if you're a property manager, you will eventually know somebody, an investor, who's going to be selling a house. Well, shoot. Instead of like, oh, point this over to investor, which I get lots of property managers sending me deals, say, hey, this guy's looking to sell. I'm like, great, and I'll buy it. how much better would be if you guys bought Jason Hull (04:00) Yeah, absolutely. I mean if you're a property manager you should really understand and know real estate investing like you're you're basically the advisor for your clients to do this and You have a pulse You know an understanding of the market that nobody else has and so leaning on a good property manager It can also be they could be an invaluable resource of knowledge. if you before you get into a property one of the smartest things you could do is go ask the property managers is this a good investment or is this a good area or is this like is this a good idea and they're like no you should not have a short-term rental property out in the middle of the desert that nobody wants to go to like it's not you're not gonna cash flow but the you know the guru I'd listen to said I could you know yeah don't do that Dustin Heiner (04:47) I've got, yeah, no, and you're 100 % right. So I personally, I've coached thousands of people to buy properties and I like buy and hold. Like it could be long-term, short-term, medium-term, even co-living, but we're gonna buy and hold these properties. Like we've got five kids. So I'll give these properties to my kids. I started investing back in 2006, just kept buying property after property. And then I realized when you get cashflow, when you get money coming in every single month from every single property, then you get financial independence and everything else on top of that is just gravy. Jason Hull (04:47) Okay. Dustin Heiner (05:15) And I consider my property manager, my quarterback of my team, like the football football team, they're going to make me money. They're going to protect me. They're going to make sure that everything is going right there. They're the, they're the quarterback of my team. And so when I find a good property manager, I hold onto them. In fact, I love find, well, here's what I do also. So in finding a good property manager, I do interviewing. I don't just grab first person because I personally feel like it's best to, you know, not everybody can work with everybody meaning Somebody might not work well with me. I might have a bad personality of them. They're like, I don't like this guy. He's too hyper. He's got too much energy. Or they might say, hey, this is a great person to work with. And so what I love to do is when I grab a property manager and I just keep buying properties and keep giving it to the property manager, they keep doing well. But I mean, honestly, in the end, I wanted financial freedom and I knew that as I bought real estate over time, the value goes up. But the biggest thing is I invest for cash flow so that Jason Hull (05:48) Bye. Dustin Heiner (06:10) Money comes in every single month and give you case in point, your property managers are sending money. Like if you're a property manager, you're sending money to your investors, which is great because you're, making money, but you're also making them money. But at the same time, imagine that money coming into your pocket. Jason Hull (06:27) Okay, I love this. think the clients listen to this or even property managers just listen to this and be like, I should probably send this out to all my clients so they should they can listen to this because this guy knows something and I want all my clients to see us in this light. This is a great light to see us in. So let's let's go back because we skipped qualifying you. Let tell us about yourself. Qualify yourself. Why should investors that that these property managers send this podcast episode to and say, listen to this guy Dustin, you should be, you want to be like Dustin. Why should investors be listening to you? Dustin Heiner (07:00) Absolutely, totally. you know what, I'm even gonna tell you a quick story of what really shoved me into real estate investing. I started investing back in 2006, but I was not born with money. In fact, I was born into a very poor family, and I did what everybody is taught. We're taught this same exact path. You go to school, you get good grades. You take those good grades, and you go to college or university and get thousands and thousands of dollars into debt. and then you get a piece of paper or a degree, that's what it's called, and you take that degree and you shop around and you try to find a job, a quote unquote career from someplace. And so I'm doing that exact same thing. In fact, Jason, I get the most stable, secure job you can ever think of. I got a job in the local county government in California doing IT. So California is not going away, government's not going away, and IT is definitely not going away, because I'm just like risk averse. Well, at the same time, I bought one rental property. And that one rental property, I remember that check I got from the property manager. It was $317. Like, this is great. I need to buy more and more properties. But you know what happens? Life started getting in the way. My wife and I started having kids, after kid. Eventually, and this is what really got me to make sure I started investing. So I stopped because life got in the way, buying properties. But my wife and I started having kids. And when my wife had our fourth child, I went on paternity leave. That's where the dad stays home with the mom, changes poopy diapers, all that good stuff. Well, after two weeks, I go back to work and on a Friday at 3.30 in the afternoon, I get a call from my boss's boss's boss's secretary, like the top dog. she says, Dustin, would you please come in the office? I said, sure. And I paused for a second. I hung up the phone. thought, why in the world are they calling me in the office? Like, this isn't normal. It's not normal. And I've also seen plenty of movies Friday at 3.30 is not a good sign. And I remembered a little bit before, right before I went on paternity leave. Jason Hull (08:48) now. Dustin Heiner (08:51) There was some rumors or some rumbly going on in the county that there could potentially be layoffs. And he really shook it off. said, there's no way I've got great seniority here. My boss is thinking of doing a great job. So I get up and I walked down the hallway to my boss's office. Now this hallway isn't very long. In fact, it's kind of short, but every single step that it took, felt like the hallway got longer and longer and longer. And it felt like my feet became lead bricks because as I was walking, I started thinking I could potentially get laid off while I get down the hallway. Jason Hull (09:01) Amen. huh. Dustin Heiner (09:20) I turn the corner and I see my boss's door. His door is closed and I see his secretary there, super sweet, nice old lady. She says, Dustin, would you please have a seat? And I go and I take my seat and she's kind of sheepishly grinning at me, trying to console me with her eyes, because she knows everything about what's going on. I know nothing about what's going on. So I take my seat and I started thinking about my life. This entire plan that other people told me, I started thinking, if I lose my job, did I just waste my life doing this? And my goodness, we just had our fourth child. Jason Hull (09:38) man. Dustin Heiner (09:50) If I can't provide for our kids, does that make me a failure as a father? Does that make me a failure as a husband, as a man trying to provide for his family? Well, as I'm sitting there, my hands get all clammy, my forehead gets all sweaty because the nerves are just crushing me. Well, the door to my boss's office opens up and out walks a coworker of mine with a piece of paper in her hands. She is noticeably distraught, very upset. She's not necessarily crying, but you could tell her world has been rocked. She passes by me and my boss says, Dustin, would you please come in the office? Jason Hull (09:54) Hmm. Dustin Heiner (10:19) So I get up and I go into his office and I get laid off. And this is the government. Nobody gets fired or laid off from the government, but I did. And this is the reason why I tell the story. So I take that layoff notice and I go back to my desk and I realized two things sitting there at my desk, just getting laid off. Number one, I need to get another job to be able to provide for my family. So really blessed, praise the Lord to find another job in the same county, another department wasn't having those issues. Second thing I realized, I need to make sure this never. Jason Hull (10:24) Hmm. Dustin Heiner (10:48) ever happens to me again. I didn't make sure that nobody can take away my ability to feed my family. So right then and there, I said, I am an investor. It may so happen that 100 % of my money came from my job. That's now my part-time job. I'm a full-time investor. So quickly fast forward the story. Started buying property after property after property, each one making me 250, 350, $550 a month. I still own all of them. And now fast forward, I go to my new boss after 30 plus properties. say, Hey boss, Jason Hull (10:57) No. Dustin Heiner (11:17) I'm laying you off. laugh and it says Dustin, what are you gonna do? I said, I don't have to do anything. I own real estate that makes me money without even working. So last quick part of the story. Remember that short hallway that got longer and longer and longer? Well, I would walk to and from my car to my job a mile and a half every day. I was too frugal to pay for parking. Well, this last walk, I felt like I was walking on clouds because I knew I would never need a job again because I had money coming in from my property. So for you listening, I want you to realize if you have your own business, if you're working for somebody else, if you have real estate that makes you money without even working grows over time. In fact, every 15 years, real estate doubles in value. mean, that alone is just should blow your mind. And then the cash flow that it makes. So in the end, what I suggest is if you make your own value coming from what you put into your own investments, IE rental properties, you're actually going to have a floor of income. Now, just same thing with a property manager. You get your landlords and let's say you have 100 units. Well, you have a floor of income because that's normal income that comes in. Same thing with real estate investing. Let's say, God forbid, all those landlords to say this is not working out, we're moving. Well, you have your properties that has a floor of income coming in for you and then it takes so much stress off of you. So I'll pause the story because you've probably got plenty of questions, Jason. Jason Hull (12:43) I love it. what a journey. there's always something that of thrusts us into a new state or even into entrepreneurism. I was suddenly a single dad trying to figure out how do I have time to spend with my kids when I'm stuck at a job at HP because I was in IT. I'm like, I haven't even earned a week off yet. And I'm gonna get them for a week to spend time with them? How's that gonna work? How do I get to be dad? so, yeah, so sometimes I joke my kids are what made me finally leap to become an entrepreneur. so. I love this idea of real estate allowing you to fire your boss or fire yourself from the job. Explain to people now what you do and your programs and all the stuff that you've built since, because you've done a lot of big things. I want people to make sure they understand Dustin's a badass and he knows a few things. Dustin Heiner (13:36) Yeah. Thanks, man. Well, here's what really happened. So as I was quitting my job 2014 2015 inch I was 37 years old and I had so many people asking me how I was not working for somebody else and still making money if I feed my family I told them I invest in real estate and they would always ask the second question. Well, can you show me and so I just started showing friends and family members how to do it and then I realized two things number one was fun and number two I had plenty of free time because when you're not working for somebody else When you're not having like, if you're a property manager, you have many bosses. Let's say you have 10 different landlords, working with 10 different bosses. That's really what it comes down to. And if you don't have any bosses bossing you around, you have 40 plus or more hours of your life back to do whatever you want. And so I just started helping people. So fast forward, I started a podcast, the master passive income podcast, you were on it. And that podcast in 2015, over 2 million downloads now with me just coaching. It's usually a solo show, like literally a solo show where I don't even It's just me teaching how to do this, but over 2 million downloads because I just want to give this out. Then wrote three, no, four books, coach thousands of people. Now even have a live event, bring in hundreds of real estate investors together, but all for a goal. Here's the main goal. It's to help 1 million people to invest in real estate. And the big reason why I decided to have this goal was because the more people that I serve in my life, the more money they make and the more money I make in the end. And so now everything from coaching thousands of people to having live events where we're just coaching even more and helping even more to books and podcasts, YouTube, you name it, like social media, Instagram, I'm over a hundred, 200,000, almost 200,000 followers on it now, just giving. And here's the big thing, a takeaway that I would love to share with everybody listening. For you listening, you need to realize if you serve and if you try to serve people, then your life is going to get better. The more people that I serve, My goodness, I make so much more money, but the great thing is it's not a win-lose. It's not like somebody loses in order for me to win. No, it should be a win-win-win. And so now everything I do at Master Passive Income, to the free courses, to the paid coaching, all that sort of stuff, it's to help people to invest in real estate to get 40 plus hours of their life back and become successfully unemployed. Jason Hull (15:59) It's amazing. And that's just really, really awesome. You're doing big things. You're doing big things. And you're not the typical property management client....
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DGS 299: The Importance of Having Proximity to Other Innovative Property Managers
07/11/2025
DGS 299: The Importance of Having Proximity to Other Innovative Property Managers
They say you are the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull shares the importance of surrounding yourself with like-minded people, including growth-oriented entrepreneurs in the property management industry. You’ll Learn [01:24] The 3 Key Ingredients for Building Friendships [08:56] Creating Connections in Entrepreneurship [16:46] The Importance of Physical Proximity and Community Quotables “If you don't have the connections, the network, the friends, the success that you're hoping for, part of it may just be you don't have proximity. You haven't chosen to initiate stuff with people.” “They say you're the sum of the five friends you spend the most time with. You'll start to adopt their mindset.” “Not a lot of people are willing to get a coach or hire a consultant or invest in themselves or invest in their business.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] The fastest path to growth is to do it with others. [00:00:03] It's to have people that are playing a game. They can make mistakes for you and tell you what they learned. They can tell you what's working and you can try that stuff too. And it just helps speed up momentum. [00:00:15] All right. I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them to figure out how to grow, add doors, improve pricing, increase profits, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. [00:00:56] In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind, with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:18] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We wanted to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. So what I wanted to talk about today with everybody, one of the things that's really interesting that I've been thinking a lot about is proximity. [00:01:43] I want you to think about the power of proximity, location, nearness, distance proximity can be very powerful. So I've been listening to this audio book by Mel Robbins called Let Them and All About the Let Them Theory that she came up with, and I think it's a brilliant book. It aligns with a lot of other books that I think have really good philosophy and ideology in it. And one of the things she talked about is creating friendships and how to create friends and how as adults that's hard and why. And what she explains in the book is that when you're young, you have like... First, friendship takes three key ingredients, proximity, timing, and energy. Proximity, timing and energy, these three pillars of friendship. And when you're a kid, you have set schedules, you're going to school all the time, you're around other people for hours and it takes like 70 plus hours to make a decent friendship and like, I don't know, 200-300 hours to make like a really strong friendship. [00:02:45] And we don't generally get that a lot of times as adults. It's hard to get that amount of time with people. Can you imagine 70 plus hours with somebody. Like it's difficult to get that. So then we end up, we've got our spouse, maybe our kids like, you know, so we, it becomes really difficult. Not only that, but she talks about how at around our twenties there's what she calls the great scattering where proximity and timing changes dramatically for everybody. [00:03:12] People are like, you know, leaving, graduating college moving away. Like there isn't this set system that you're caught up in that creates proximity and the timing is the same, where everybody has the same stuff going on. Then there starts to be marriage and kids and traveling and like moving places and work and so timing shifts for everybody. [00:03:35] And just because proximity or timing changes doesn't mean that you're no longer friends with that person and they're now your enemy. Because their timing changes and you feel maybe like they abandoned you, but really as soon as the timing aligns or proximity aligns like you're nearby or you're at a similar stage in life again, like you both have kids now or something like this, you're both married now, then the friendship can pick right back up. [00:04:01] And I thought that was a different perspective. A lot of people, you know, I think as adults find it difficult to make friends and so it's about proximity and you know, the person you have the most proximity to is going to be your spouse. Like, you got to choose your spouse wisely. So I'll give you an example. [00:04:16] So Sarah lately has been really into flying, really into getting her pilot's license, not because she wants to someday become a commercial pilot and fly people around. It's because she wants freedom and it's this hobby and this passion of hers that she's caught up in. And she really is into power and achievement. [00:04:35] So she loves being able to learn and level up and develop skill in whatever. Like at a young age, she got a black belt in kenpo karate, right? And you know, she's this kind of personality, power and achievement is her basic need. So she's been flying. Well, because I'm around her and I'm in proximity to her. [00:04:54] I'm learning a lot about aviation, I'm learning a lot about weather. I'm learning a lot about all the stuff she's learning about because she's telling me and she's excited about it. And so, you know, just in proximity, and she just did her first flight. She just did her very first solo flight, which was like a big celebration. [00:05:12] And her instructor cuts off the back of her shirt because I guess the tradition is when your trainer would sit behind you in a plane and tug on your shirt tails to let you know if you need to go right or left because they didn't have the planes they have now, which is like dual control and you can steer. [00:05:28] He cut off the back of her shirt and like there, there's this celebration. I got to watch her first flight. I got to go up in the tower at Georgetown Municipal Airport or whatever it's called. That's near our home. And I went up into the tower twice. I got you know, we bribed them with cupcakes to let us come up and they were willing to let us come up. [00:05:46] I got to see that I got to see, you know, takeoffs and landings from the airport. I got to see the hangar at Pilot's Choice where she was learning and meet instructors there. And I got to see kind of her whole world that she's been involved in for months and get the experience. And eventually she convinced me to do a flight. [00:06:06] I'd never flown in a small plane. Like these are small, these are like, it was a tomahawk. This is what she's been learning in. because they say it's the hardest plane to learn in, and that's what Sarah intentionally chose to do. She's like, I want to be in the most difficult plane to fly. It's like a lawnmower with wings. [00:06:26] Like it's just like it's really tiny, no air conditioning. Like you get really hot in the summer. And I went and did my first flight. It was a discovery flight with her instructor. And I got to go up and experience what it'd be like, and I had no idea, like, I thought maybe it'd be like flying in a... I thought it'd feel like a rollercoaster. because you know, big planes don't get moved around a lot. I thought the little plane would feel like I'm like a rollercoaster, like my stomach's moving around and I'm like freaking out and whatever. But it wasn't that exciting. It wasn't a rollercoaster. It felt like just bumping around on the air. [00:06:58] Like it was pretty cool and I got to do everything. He had me do the takeoff turn everything except landing, which thanks for helping me land, Mike. We tried to trick Sarah that I had landed my first time and I was an expert because that's one of the harder things to do. But she didn't give us the reaction we were hoping for. [00:07:16] And because she knew we were messing with her, I think. So it, that didn't work, but we were trying to mess with her because when she first started getting her first landing, she was so excited. So he was like, "he's a natural have been teaching him, because he just landed the plane by himself," and she didn't give us any reaction, which made it not fun. [00:07:33] Thanks Sarah. So she knew we were up to something. Anyway, so it was it was an experience. I would never have probably just chosen to get into a little plane and fly it and do a lesson or any of this if I wasn't in proximity to somebody that was doing it. And so the people that you choose to be around... what I'm trying to illustrate... are important. Proximity matters. [00:07:56] And so if you don't have the connections, the network, the friends, the success that you're hoping for, part of it may just be you don't have proximity. You haven't chosen to initiate stuff with people. You haven't been around the right people. You haven't been around people that are successful. [00:08:12] If you aren't feeling successful, it may just be you're lacking proximity. It really can be that simple. They say you're the sum of the five friends you spend the most time with. You'll start to adopt their mindset. You'll start to adopt their goals to some degree, you will start to do this. [00:08:27] Who knows? Maybe I'll end up getting a pilot license too someday. I don't know. Sarah's so passionate about it. I might catch the bug. Right. You know, now after we get past this great scattering in our twenties as adults, you know, especially as entrepreneurs where we feel really isolated, we feel like nobody else is like us. [00:08:45] We're aliens. Everyone wants safety and security, and they want to get a job, and we want freedom and we want fulfillment. We're just different. It's important to create proximity and connections with other entrepreneurs. This is one of the things we've really worked hard to facilitate in our mastermind. [00:09:03] When people join our program, we get them connected with each other. Madi, my daughter, who's over client Success, who edits this podcast, shout out to Madi, while she's watching this and editing and does all of my social media and helps with organizing our short form videos and everything that we do. [00:09:19] But she's over client success. One of her goals or responsibilities in the results that she's expected to accomplish is to get clients connected with each other because we know that one helps them get better results. Two, helps them stay in our program longer because they have friends. And three, helps them just create relationships that can last a lifetime and that will positively impact their future and help them. You know, these are people that, in our mastermind that we attract, these people are people that invest in themselves and invest in their business. Not a lot of people do that. Not a lot of people are willing to get a coach or hire a consultant or invest in themselves or invest in their business. [00:10:00] I mean, that's. Those are rare people. These are people that have kind of realized that the hardest way to do it is to do it alone. They've struggled. They've figured out it's not working to like just do it all myself and watch YouTube videos and read books and think I'm the smartest guy in the room. [00:10:16] And you end up spending like a decade longer. You could collapse a decade down into a year in results. You could get a result in a year that would take some people a decade to figure out, because you don't have to make all the mistakes. Somebody else has done this. People can point you in the right direction. [00:10:31] And so this is one of the things that we're really trying to figure out, and one of the problems or challenges we're working on at DoorGrow is how can we create more proximity? When we did DoorGrow Live just recently, one of the things that we did is we went bowling. We took everybody like we went bowling. [00:10:48] Another thing that we did is we all we did a mixer and a, like a little group mingle thing. We played a game two questions and a lie. And people are just sharing all sorts of property management stories. They had to share two true ones and one that wasn't true and people had to guess. [00:11:03] And people were gathering points based on whether they guessed accurately, all three on a person. And then there's those in-between moments where people going out to, you know, get lunch or eat dinner together, or, you know, spending time in the evening together. These things create, this allows proximity, allows you to spend some time connecting with people and networking and creating those relationships. [00:11:25] And so you need to make sure you get in the room with the right people. You need to be around, you need to have proximity to people in your industry. You need to have proximity to people that are growth minded. And if you can find a place that does all of this, that's rare. And so this is one of the things we wanted to facilitate with clients. [00:11:44] And then if we find out people are near each other, like we've got a bunch of clients in Florida for some reason right now, we've got a bunch of clients in California. We've got a bunch of clients in certain geographic areas. We want to get them connected. You know, the fastest path to growth is to do it with others. [00:12:01] It's to have people that are playing a game. They can make mistakes for you and tell you what they learned. They can tell you what's working and you can try that stuff too. And it just helps speed up momentum. And it's just great to be connected with people that are playing a similar game that understand you, that don't make you feel like an alien and just hear what you're dealing with and say, why don't you just go get a job and why do you deal with this? [00:12:25] You know? And so. It's great to have that. So proximity. Now, timing, you need people that are at a similar stage in life. Well, if they are married, have kids are building a property management business, that's a very common stage. That's a similar stage that you could be around others in. [00:12:44] And that timing is the right timing because without timing you, it's really hard to connect and have a relationship or relate to these people. You know, like if you are married and have kids and they're out just drinking and partying all the time or whatever, and that's how you used to kind of live. [00:12:58] You're like, well, it doesn't kind of fit my lifestyle now. So now we're not friends. The timing's just off for now. And then energy is just the way she describes, it's kind of like the vibe or the connection. You can't choose that. Just some people you connect with well, and some people that you don't, but I think in general, you increase the odds of that dramatically by being around people like you. [00:13:18] You tend to like yourself, hopefully, and you're a good person. You're a badass. You've dealt with challenges. You started a business. You're doing property management, which is difficult work. You're building up your operations and you're focused on adding doors and growth, I mean you're going to find people with a similar energy to you, which is growth-minded positive focus, active, action takers. [00:13:41] And so if you can match all three, you can find people that you can create proximity to, that are at the similar stage in life, the right timing, and they have the right energy that you want to connect with and be around, and there's just that energetic chemistry or connection with them, these are amazing people for you to be connected to and it's going to make life feel lighter. It's going to make life feel easier. It's going to make life feel more fun. It makes things worth it. And so that's my challenge. That's something I'm going to be really focused on and working on because I've moved around a lot. [00:14:12] I've been in California, I've been in Idaho, I'm now in Austin, Texas area. And I've really loved the Austin area. It's been a lot easier for me to find people that have similar energy and there's good proximity to people with similar energy. There's a lot of entrepreneurs. There's an entrepreneurial culture here. [00:14:30] So I've really enjoyed being able to connect with people in the Austin area, and I made some really good friends, and we don't have to see each other all the time. We don't have to hang out all the time. I might see somebody like once a year and we're still like, we pick right back up and we're connected and we, that's how entrepreneurs work. [00:14:46] We're busy, and really good friends that are really successful. They're busy people. And then I've got friends that are scattered throughout the US and beyond that, you know, I've had a good connection with at an event or something, and I know the next time we get on a Zoom call or we hang out in person or whatever, it's just going to feel like awesomeness and magic, right? [00:15:04] Again, because they have the right energy and that'll be the right time to do it. And it doesn't matter if we're not connecting now, they're still my friends. And so my challenge, all of you listening is create some proximity. Make that a focus of attention. If you feel like your business is stuck or struggling. [00:15:23] Maybe look at the proximity of the business owners you're around. Are they stuck, struggling? Who are you connected to? Maybe you just don't have anybody you're connected to. You need a friend, you need a mentor, you need somebody you can relate to. You need people that are playing a similar game, and if we could help facilitate that at DoorGrow, we'd be happy to. [00:15:41] But there's plenty of other things you could maybe go try. It doesn't have to be us, but you need to be connected and you need to create some connections. And that could be through trade organizations like NARPM, N-A-R-P-M, the National Association of Residential Property Managers. It could be at local meetup groups. [00:15:57] It could be hanging out with other real estate investors. Whatever floats your boat, whatever makes you feel connected and valued. So that's my message for today is go create some proximity. Sarah and I are about to take a trip to Mexico. We're going to go connect with a bunch of people and these are people that just to be at this event, they've spent over 25 grand or more, some like a million dollars, like to be part of this group that we're going to see. And we've spent a lot of money to be in and connected with this. And so that's like, you know, kind of pay to play, right? There's a certain caliber of people that we get to be around that are willing to invest so much and we're really excited to meet these type of people. [00:16:38] You know, I'm in a local mastermind, an organization called Speakeasy and it really has nothing to do with drinking because we don't do any of that. But it's like we get together in somebody's house and like they're all local entrepreneurial business owner people and they're all doing really cool things. [00:16:53] There's some amazing people. So I've been able to connect with local people doing that. I'm in a mastermind for coaches and it's...
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DGS 298: From Crisis to Connection: Building Your Dream Property Management Business and Team
06/26/2025
DGS 298: From Crisis to Connection: Building Your Dream Property Management Business and Team
How did you end up in the property management industry? Becoming an entrepreneur is often a difficult and lonely path with many ups and downs along the way. Many property management business owners are miserable in their own businesses. In today’s episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with property manager and DoorGrow client Derek Morton to discuss how he was able to build his property management business and team around himself. You’ll Learn [01:53] The Entrepreneurial Struggle [09:03] Building a Business Based on Humanity and Care [26:48] The Impact of The Right Company Culture and Team [38:57] Masterminding with Savvy Property Managers Quotables “Property management really is a business of relationships.” “If people fail me, sometimes I don't have a proportional response. So why would I expect anyone else to act differently?” ”Your internal beliefs really, I think, shape the environment that we allow or create around ourselves.” “If you're relying on team members, it's really dumb to think you've got all of the best ideas and nobody else is as smart as you.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Derek: Sarah was like, "Hey, you did all this stuff, how did you do it?" And I'm like, I don't know. And so we went back and we ran the numbers. 88% of my growth has come from my network and just those relationships. [00:00:13] Jason: They say your network is your net worth, right? [00:00:15] Jason: Okay. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management business owners. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. [00:00:32] Jason: At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, done websites for hundreds more than that, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate, high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:01:16] Jason: That's our mission statement. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:27] Jason: So I'm hanging out today with one of our clients, Derek Morton, over at Net Gain Property Management. [00:01:32] Jason: Derek, welcome to the show. [00:01:33] Derek: Thanks for having me. I'm excited. [00:01:35] Jason: So, Derek, you're doing a lot of unique things there and you've had a lot of success and things have been going really well. I'm excited to to, you know, get into you know, some of this unique stuff that you're doing and chat about this topic of 'from crisis to connection.' [00:01:53] Jason: And so to kick things off, tell everybody how did you get into— when did you first figure out you were an entrepreneur? Like how'd you get into business? And then maybe that'll segue into starting a property management business and so on. Give us some back background on you. [00:02:10] Derek: I still struggle viewing myself as an entrepreneur to be honest with you in that way. [00:02:16] Derek: Like I've done sales stuff growing up and my parents are like, you suck at this. Like, you're not going to be able to make a living. [00:02:23] Jason: They didn't believe in you. [00:02:23] Derek: No, they're very self-aware. Like, I mean, trust me, I understood like they were right. But like, what was funny is like on the sales, like I couldn't close but I could present and I could put on a show and make it entertaining. [00:02:37] Derek: And so, like, one of the things that I did is I sold Cutco knives. Okay. But I couldn't close. But I would have more people like, and I'd have a longer list of referrals of people's friends after the end of each one of the presentations than anyone else. But I couldn't close, so I was getting, I made a decent amount of money, because you got paid per presentation. [00:02:57] Derek: And they couldn't figure it out. And they sat in on one of my things and they're like, "you need to close the deal." And I'm like, "I don't know how to close the deal." I just, you know, and then I ran a snow cone shack, and that was probably one of the funnest things I ever did. And we went crazy with stuff. [00:03:10] Derek: Couldn't make any money, me and my partner, but we had a good time and made an impact. We had came up with all sorts of crazy combinations and all this time I was in the title industry when I was running that and marketing and just built relationships and that was all my sales, was just relationships. [00:03:26] Derek: I can't do hard sales like it makes me sick. Yeah. But the relationships and all that stuff comes naturally. And so, I mean that's— [00:03:35] Jason: and property management really is a business of relationships. [00:03:38] Derek: It is. [00:03:38] Jason: And people that lose sight of that think it's some sort of tech game or like a lot of these businesses have felt failed. [00:03:45] Jason: They just, they don't get it. [00:03:47] Derek: As you say, the deals close at the speed of trust. Yeah. I do say, and so see, I listen sometimes and sometimes, enough to gather a few things. But being able to work on those relationships and just see people has like, been that secret elixir. [00:04:03] Derek: And so when I was looking to start a property management company my parents were like, "you're an idiot. You failed at everything else." Even my wife was nervous. The only thing that convinced her was we were in the process of building a house and we were going to rent out our town home. And she's like, "there's too many property management companies where we're at. I'm not going to pay, you know, who's going to pay 10% or whatever for this, like, when you can do it yourself." And I said, "okay, you're going to do this on your own." And so I just let her do it. And she had asked questions and I said, "Google it." And as someone who's married yourself, you can understand how well that went over. [00:04:39] Derek: And so, and then hearing everyone's stories and different things like that, my wife, by the time we had it rented out was like, "okay, you have my support." And then the, you know, the rest is history. Rough first year, and then we've just been on a rocket ride since. [00:04:53] Jason: So you, how important do you feel like it was to get your wife's support? [00:04:59] Jason: I've been the entrepreneur that didn't have support in a previous marriage, like that was a rough thing. [00:05:05] Derek: Oh it's a hundred percent. Like, I mean, it's the only way I could do like, I mean, so about six months in, so I didn't take, really take a paycheck the first year. We were living off savings. Yeah. It was kind of a struggle. My partner was looking at me like, "you're going to make this work." And once again, like, I struggled one, you know, with hard sales and the hard part that I didn't realize that, you know, I was marketing for title companies, so I had all these real estate agent contacts. But it's a town. It's notorious. When you try something new, they're like, "we know you as the title guy. We don't know you as the property management guy. That's a different thing." And so I was like, "oh they know me, trust, and they sent me all these deals to close for them, you know, for the client. [00:05:42] Derek: So they're going to try. And they're like, it's different. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. So I didn't anticipate that, but I remember one time, my partner had set up with the real estate brokerage he was in the management company or the broker of the business. Were going to start a statewide management company. [00:05:59] Derek: And they were going to have me run Cedar and we had a conversation and my partner was laughing because I was, I had no leverage. But I was kind of belligerent because I'm like, your software sucks. Like, I know I don't have a whole lot of clients, but like why would I ask them to take a step down on the level of service? And with that being said, I'm like, I have a family to provide for, and I'm like, the dream's dead. Everyone's right, right? I can't do sales. I'm not an entrepreneur. I can't work for anyone else either, so I'm like, I'm kind of screwed. [00:06:26] Jason: I'm unemployable. That kind of means you're an entrepreneur if you're unemployable. [00:06:30] Derek: I mean, that's the funny thing is my family's like, "why don't you find a job?" I'm like, "I tried." All these companies, like, "dude, you've done so many cool, amazing things. We love you and everything. We can't hire you." "Why not?" "You just don't fit our culture." And I'm like, "**** you!" Oh yeah that's probably why I don't fit your culture. [00:06:45] Derek: Right. And so like I had at that point decided I was going to sell out and I'm like, okay, I'll work for something else and if not something else, I'll just kind of, this will be the next step. I'll just balance and then figure out where I go to next. [00:06:56] Sarah: Yeah. [00:06:57] Derek: But I woke up at like three o'clock in the morning and I'm just like, I can't do it. [00:07:00] Derek: I can't do it. And told my wife, I said, "I can't sell." And she's like, "okay, but when are you going to make money?" "I don't know. You know, I just know I can't sell." And I went to my business partner and I'm like, "I can't sell." And he looks at me and he is like, "I've seen you do dumber stuff. So, okay. What's your plan?" [00:07:21] Derek: "I don't have a plan." And then I remember. So I'm just like, all right. Like I have to figure this out. Two weeks later, an agent buddy of mine like calls me and he is like, "I am tired of my wife doing property management. Come in, let's talk." And at this point I think I was like at 40, 40 units. And you know, accounting's not my strong point. [00:07:41] Derek: because everyone's like, "oh, 40 units, you should been making money." I'm like, I was just trying to figure out the flow of money. Like that's not my strong point. [00:07:47] Jason: And so this is the crisis. And the crisis to connection is like, you were just like trying to figure out mm-hmm we need money. Mm-hmm. [00:07:55] Derek: And and so he goes, "here's the deal you pay me, you know, one month's management fee and they're all yours. Here's 25 units." We did the math, it was like five grand. And what's funny is my business partner's like "you do not make a deal without talking to me." We were 50: 50 partners and we'd always joke around about like, Hey, I'm going to use my 50% majority and make this decision. [00:08:17] Derek: And we just, you know, this is kind of, we were interacted. So I came out of that meeting and I said, "I'm buying them." And he was pissed. He is, like "I told you—" and I said, "dude, it's $5,000." And he's like, oh yep, nope, we're good. We're good. We didn't tell anyone. Didn't make a big announcement. Yeah. But there was something about that moment like that led to credibility. [00:08:37] Derek: For whatever reason there was just a threshold of units. All of a sudden, now I'm at 65 and I was like, oh, like you're kind of legit. And then it's just kind of has been spiraling since then. And within six months I'd hired my first employee. because we were at a hundred units and I was adding 20 that month. [00:08:51] Derek: But but yeah, so that's just kind of the story and I still laugh because I don't view myself as an entrepreneur. It's just kind of, I view myself as a guy who's really good at relationships and magic happens with that. [00:09:03] Jason: So, and you know, you mentioned at the beginning that you really, that's kind of your area of genius is you're really good at connecting with people and building relationships. [00:09:13] Jason: One of the things that I, you know, that one of the gifts I see in you that I've noticed, you know, as a coach is you genuinely care about people. You genuinely care about your team. You genuinely care about your clients, you care about the tenants. And I think it's that care that's really allowed you to have the success that you've been seeing. [00:09:35] Derek: Oh, a hundred percent. Like we, we laugh all the time. I said people as a whole are awesome and so good. There's so many incredible things. Individuals can be idiots, some, you know, me included. I'm an individual. But by and large, I mean that's, [00:09:48] Jason: That's a very different belief though. And there's a lot of people that are like, "I don't like people, but I like you." [00:09:53] Jason: You know, or stuff like this. My wife's Sarah, she's like, "I don't generally like people, but I like you." You know, she likes Derek, you know, but Yeah. But you have this belief that people are awesome and I think that belief is, you know, that's a unique belief. [00:10:07] Derek: Yeah. And I, you know, and especially in property management, like I, I mean, "oh, you're going to get yelled at all the time." [00:10:12] Derek: And I'm like, yeah. I mean, yeah. You know, sometimes it's deserved, sometimes it's not. And as long as you can separate those, like that's what's amazing. Like sometimes you're like, we failed and I can't control how people are going to respond. because if people fail me sometimes I don't have a proportional response. [00:10:27] Derek: So why would I expect anyone else to act differently? And so we just own it and try to fix it and apologize and, you know. [00:10:36] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that another attribute, you know, there's generally, you know, the idea of not having to be perfect or look perfect all the time, there's a certain level of humility. [00:10:48] Jason: You joke about yourself like a lot, and you know, you, even from the outset of this, you know this podcast you recognize you're not this perfect unflawed person. And I think there's, that level of humanity, it's disarming, it allows people to feel even safer. And I think a lot of property managers listening could take note is they're always trying to maintain this perfect perception that there is this thing that never has a problem. [00:11:15] Derek: Oh, like, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's life's messy. I'm messy. Like, I mean, like everyone's messy. Yeah. We try to put on this show, you know? And I mean, that's one of the things, like part of the, my background coming into property management has given me the different perspective. I mean, so I served on the board for the local homeless shelter. [00:11:37] Jason: Okay. [00:11:37] Derek: And so, like I saw on a day-to-day basis, like people going through crisises and seeing them and realizing, I'm like I was one or two decisions, or one or two friends from being there. [00:11:50] Jason: Yeah. [00:11:50] Derek: And so being able to recognize like that going, you know, if I would've gone to this, or if I would've done this, or, I mean, I can count on one hand, like times in my life that I'm like, you know, that was divine intervention. [00:12:05] Derek: I had a friend gimme a call at the right time and invite me to go do that before I did something stupid. You know, and it's like, I tell my kids all the time, I said, you're going to make mistakes. You know, the deci the hard part is making sure that those mistakes aren't life changing. And unfortunately, outside of a few, like big obvious ones, you never know when those life changing ones are until you know they're past. [00:12:27] Jason: You know, I really believe we are the creators of our own reality, and I believe that your belief that in divine intervention, belief in God being able to take care of you and that you trusting in that has allowed you to avoid some of those. Because I'm sure when you were talking to people at that local homeless shelter, you're getting this perspective, oh man, they just made one bad decision that led to this. Or they were just like, I'm one step away from this. But they probably, a lot of them you probably picked up, they have a different belief system than you do. [00:13:01] Derek: Yeah. And I mean, what's fascinating though, when you work with those, they're generally trying to change. [00:13:06] Jason: Yeah. [00:13:07] Derek: And this is a perspective of it, and it was eyeopening. So like when we set up our first transitional house for men and women coming out of homelessness and domestic violence, my kids still call it the stinky house. Like it was the stink, it was stinky house, it was a dump. [00:13:18] Derek: And like we fixed it up. Like, I mean, I've told the story like Home Depot, like called and walked off the job. because they were pulling up carpet. There was like dog crap, like somehow shoved underneath the— like, like, it was horrible. They had like 20 people and 15 dogs and 13 cats living here before this owner bought it. [00:13:37] Jason: Yeah. [00:13:38] Derek: And he wanted to do student housing. And we're like, and I was like, all right, let's do it. [00:13:42] Jason: Because all their parents paying the bill want them to be in that property. [00:13:45] Derek: This was not like student housing at the time, but he is like. You know, as far I'm like, and it was still, to this day, it's like one of the best property pitches I've ever done. [00:13:53] Derek: And I'm still kind of a little bitter and I still manage this owner. I'm like, "we've done a lot of good with this house. But remember that pitch?" And it is like, "I know," and that pitch would've cost me a lot of money that I wouldn't have been able to make. It was awesome. It's what sold me on you and trust me. [00:14:09] Derek: because you put a lot of work into that. And so we pivoted because it's, you know, it was funny. It's like going back to divine intervention. Yeah, he spoke numerous times. He's like, "this house was speaking to me." Like, he's just like, "I have to have this house. I don't know why. I don't know what, despite everything," and so, you know, we kind of pitched and we made it up and worked with the homeless shelter going, here's what we think, there's, here's some funding. [00:14:33] Derek: Like, let's just figure it out. And he was on board and you know, so when we moved the first three in, they were so, so ecstatic. Hearing their stories, one of them grew up not far from where I grew up, and I laughed because, you know, he left where he grew up because he didn't want to get into drugs. [00:14:52] Derek: Lo and behold, he came to Cedar City and he got into drugs. So he left where I'm like, "dude, yeah, no wonder like you, you didn't do drugs in that area where you grew up? Like that's impress— but you got into it in Cedar?" he goes, "I know it doesn't track. I left to get away and then it was just. It just, you know," and it goes back to the connections that he made and the friends that he made and [00:15:12] Jason: Yeah. [00:15:13] Derek: And all of that, their ability, [00:15:14] Jason: ... really that's who you are and how you're showing up and your beliefs and what you feel you deserve and what you you feel you're worth. And so really boils down to your internal belief. [00:15:24] Jason: And your internal...
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DGS 297: Connecting Investors in the USA and Abroad to Properties and Property Managers
06/20/2025
DGS 297: Connecting Investors in the USA and Abroad to Properties and Property Managers
As a property manager, have you ever worked with foreign investors? If not, what is stopping you? Is it because you don’t know another language or because you don’t know where to find foreign investors? What if there were a service that handled that piece for you? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with the founder of HomeAbroad and Ziffy to talk about how property managers can connect with investors living outside of the United States. You’ll Learn [01:49] Building a Platform that Helps Foreign Investors Find Properties [08:21] Helping Investors in the U.S. Find Investment Properties [14:46] How HomeAbroad and Ziffy Can Benefit Property Managers [25:23] Using Real Estate Investing and Property Management to Move to the U.S. Quotables “No one wants to be a landlord… They're looking for a good way to maximize return on their investment or return on their cash.” “If you are a smart investor, if you are running this as a business, right, you got to have property management.” “You can't build a portfolio of a hundred properties by managing each property yourself.” “You grow together. It's a small industry, you know, we got to help each other and we grow as a business together.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Client finds the property through a platform. We do the mortgage financing, so we will introduce the property manager at the right time and say, "Hey, by the way, you can find the right property manager to help you manage this property, so, we'll kind of introduce you in the right point in that journey to make sure that you have a high conversion as well. [00:00:20] All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. We have rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. [00:01:06] And if you are wanting help with any of that stuff, then reach out to us at DoorGrow. So we believe at DoorGrow that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:01:28] We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. [00:01:38] Now let's get into the show. All right, so my guest today, I am hanging out with Amresh Singh, welcome to the DoorGrow Show. [00:01:46] Thanks, Jason. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. [00:01:49] It's good to have you. So I would love to get into your background so people understand, like who are they listening to or viewing on this, and tell us a little bit about your journey into entrepreneurism and how you kind of got started and that will lead us into your business. [00:02:04] Awesome. So my background has been at the intersection of mortgages and technology. I used to work for a leading international bank before I started HomeAbroad. And originally I'm from India, so I moved to the US 10 years back, working for this big bank who moved me from India to the US to work closer to the headquarters over here. [00:02:25] I managed their international customer acquisition. And you know, in that journey, you know, I realized that two things that we have. Or I should say two really fascinating things about the US real estate market, which is, you know, 30 year fixed state mortgages, which we, in the US you know, we tend to ignore and we take it for granted. [00:02:45] It does not exist in most places around the world. It's a superpower, 30 year fixed state mortgages. Right? Yeah. Plus combine that with, you know, higher rental leads in the US market. You know, you're really looking at a true wealth building too. Right? So that realization coming from, you know, an international market into the US market, seeing the superpower of the, you know, how real estate in the US can really help you build generational wealth. You know, gave me the idea to start HomeAbroad, you know, which was a company that was focused on global investors investing in USD asset market, right? You know, and taking the advantages of, you know, some of these superpowers, I will speak later in your podcast. [00:03:24] Right? But that's how the journey started. And then, you know, as part of that journey, we realized, you know, some similar gaps exist in the domestic market as well that led to formation of Ziffy, which I'll talk about as well as we progress in the podcast. So that's kind of in nutshell, my know, my entrepreneur journey, my background, so. [00:03:40] Very cool. I've noticed, you know, every now and then I get clients that they've got some special connection to an international market. You know, I've got a client from Israel and he's able to pull in Israeli investors and they're wanting to get into the US market, and he helps them handle all of that. [00:03:56] I had a client that same thing with China you know, and other different foreign countries, you know, and so that's a competitive advantage that each of these property management business owners have, but it's not one that every property manager can just create because they don't know a different language. [00:04:14] They don't have a network or connections overseas, and so that could be a challenge. But I see how that could be a competitive advantage for building up your own portfolio if you could access international investors. And I didn't really realize that, but I just grew up in this bubble of the US but 30 year fixed rate mortgages sounds so normal. You know? Yes. So, okay. So cool. So, so tell us a little bit about what you've got going on. [00:04:40] Yeah, so, you know, as I mentioned, you know, we operate two brands. HomeAbroad is where we started, right? And that's a shop, that's a PropTech and FinTech shop that's focused on helping global investors invest in the US real estate market. [00:04:52] Right? If you think about, you know, real estate, right? It's kind of, you know, wealth building tool or is a mode of, you know, building generational wealth around the world. People invest in real estate for stability, right? For, you know, that that ease of mind, okay my investment is going to grow, right? [00:05:08] But you know, in most places around the world when you're investing in real estate, you're not doing that with leverage. You know, you are buying that in cash and you are, you know, mode for return on that investment is really banking on the capital appreciation on that property, right? What changes in the US market is because of 30 year fixed rate mortgages, there's no payment shock. [00:05:28] The rate is fixed for the term of the loan. That's 30 years. Since it's amortized for a 30 year period, your monthly payments are lower, right? Rental liens are higher. So what ends up happening in the US market is rent covers mortgage in majority of the scenario. [00:05:44] Yeah. It cash flows day one. Absolutely right. And that is something. So think about it, right? So you are generating cash flow from day one with leverage. I'll repeat that with leverage, right? So 20-25% of your money is able to help you buy a hundred percent of the property with cash flow or passive income from day one. [00:06:05] It just does not happen in most places around the world. Now imagine this: you explain this to someone who has no idea about the US state market, right? And then you tell them, Hey, not only you know the value prop, but as a company HomeAbroad, we are going to give you mortgage financing with no US state history. [00:06:25] Right. And we are going to underwrite you not based on your personal income or assets from your home country. We are going to look at the property's income, right? And we're going to underwrite based on that, right? Suddenly someone who has no affiliation with the US, you know, market or financial market is able to invest or buy US real estate for the obvious benefits I mentioned, right? [00:06:49] Cash flow with leverage, but also you're putting your money in the largest economy in the world. USD is still the reserve currency, right? So you're shielding yourself from currency risk that's might exist in your home country, right? And suddenly when you explain this to a global investor, it's an aha moment for them, right? [00:07:04] Because this is something that does not exist in their home market. You know, they want to, you know, kind of diversify their assets and dip into what US has to offer this kind of opening American dream to the world. Yeah. Without them having to live or work in the US. You can live and work in your home country and dip into what America or American dream has to offer, you know, while you sit in your home country. Right. And that's kind of what was a game changing phenomena for us. Great traction, great, you know, reserves. But what we saw, Jason, you know, these people were coming in and we're like, okay, great. I want to invest in USA asset market. But I don't know where to invest. [00:07:40] Right. I don't know the US market, I don't know which city to invest in. Right. And my team, you know, we found ourselves going onto Zillow doing investment analysis and coming back to them and saying, "okay, this is a good place to invest." And then we said, "okay, wait a minute. Let's just build a tech platform, and that's what led the evolution of Ziffy, which is kind of, you know, Zillow for investment properties, ziffy.ai, where you know, as an investor you can kind of just say, okay, this is my investment objective. [00:08:05] I want to generate X dollar cash flow every month. I want to generate Y percent in rental. I want to find all the rent properties. And the algorithm mines everything that is listed on MLS right now from an investment perspective gives you detailed investment analysis and helps you take the data driven recommendation. [00:08:21] And then we realized only 8% of Americans own investment properties. If it's such a good thing that global investors want to put their money in the USA market, why Americans are not building generational wealth by investing in real estate. Right? Because people don't want to be a landlord, right? [00:08:37] Right. But once you put this data in front of them, suddenly the perspective changes. And that's what we are right now. We are launching ziffy.ai where it's going to be the Zillow for investment properties to really help more Americans buy and invest in US real estate. [00:08:50] Okay, great. And what's that tool called? [00:08:52] It's Ziffy, Z-I-F-F-Y, dot A-I. [00:08:56] ziffy.ai. Okay. And you mentioned the big other z name Zillow, you're like, you're trying to take their lunch, I guess. Right? We'll see how... [00:09:06] not really. Thing about it, zillow is focused on primary market, right? Yeah. It's a much bigger market. Right. And, you know, investment, of course, 16% of the transactions are investment properties. [00:09:17] Right. But having said that, it's a huge market and there's lot of, you know, scope for growth because a lot of Americans still, you know, what they don't know about is there are specialized loan products that exist, you know, that can underwrite based on the rental income of the property. [00:09:32] So if I have a mortgage, I have a car loan, I think, okay, there's no way I can buy investment property. No one's going to give me a loan. I'm going to walk in my local bank or my local branch, and they're going to say, "okay, Jason, you know, what's your current mortgage? What's your car loan? Oh, you don't qualify based on your debt to income ratio." [00:09:49] They don't know that this specialized loan product called DSCR loan, which is debt service coverage ratio loan, where I'm qualifying you for the mortgage based on the rental income of that property versus your personal income. Right. So suddenly now you can build portfolio of hundred of investment properties because each property qualifies based on its own merit. [00:10:11] You buy one investment property, right? Rent covers mortgage from day one generates you cash flow. You wait three, four years, you gain equity in the property, do a cash out refinance, take that money to put down payment on other property. That property is cash positive from day one and the cycle repeats. [00:10:27] So if you're a smart investor can really help that first investment property, help you build a portfolio of investment property over 10 to 15 year period and build that generational wealth for you and your family. And people just don't know about it. And that's what we're trying to democratize. [00:10:41] All right. [00:10:41] I love the idea. You know, we've leveraged a DSCR loan and it's nice because you don't have to give them all your personal info. You know, it doesn't matter how much debt you already have leveraged with properties you already have. So the rates are a little bit higher. [00:10:55] Right. But if you're able to cash flow it effectively, then I guess it doesn't matter. [00:11:01] It doesn't matter. But also, I'll tell you, Jason, it's not that much higher either. No. If you think about an investment property loan from Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae conventional loans the rates are going to be higher than what you're going to pay for a 30 year fix it mortgage for a primary home. [00:11:14] Right. If you compare an investment property loan from an, from the jcs versus a DSCR loan, the rate difference you're talking about is 0.25%, or, you know, like, so it's not, it's very competitive. [00:11:28] So. A lot of the people listening run property management companies. They've got a pool of investors. [00:11:33] These are their clients. How do they leverage [00:11:37] HomeAbroad or Ziffy? That's a great question. Right? So we are also opening a marketplace for property managers, right? Because think about these foreign clients that are coming over to us, right? Think about domestic clients, right? A lot of these clients, you know, no one wants to be a landlord, as I mentioned earlier, right? [00:11:52] They're looking for a good way to maximize return on their investment or return on their cash. Right. And they don't want to take the day-to-day hassle of being a landlord. Right. Right. That's where property management comes in. Right. And if you are a smart investor, if you are running this as a business, right, you got to have property management. That's what we tell our clients. You can't build a portfolio of a hundred properties by managing each property yourself. You got to get property management in, right? Yeah. And what we are doing is we are trying to, you know, open up a marketplace where, you know, foreign investors, of course, they have no idea about whom to work at in the US so they can connect to property managers in the US through a platform. [00:12:31] Right. But in addition. If you're a property manager and if you have clients who are looking for next investment and so forth, you can white label our Ziffy platform for your clients. Right, okay. To give them as your own tool. And if they come back to us, you know, for a mortgage, we give you a referral fee. [00:12:50] You know X, we give up to 40 to 50 basis point on the loan amount as their referral fee. So that could be not only you're servicing your clients, you're giving them tools to help them find their next investment, which by the way, you will end up managing as well. But you're also increasing your value prop by helping your client find the next investment and adding additional revenue stream to your overall portfolio, right? [00:13:12] So it's a win-win situation for everyone. [00:13:15] So becomes absolutely profit center. Okay, so. And they can white label Ziffy. What about is the Ziffy and HomeAbroad databases, are these linked? Like, are these properties, because you know, I think a lot of property managers listening are like, "how can I get access to these foreign investors because I don't have that capability?" [00:13:32] They're linked. It's just the branding, right? Because for foreign investors, you know, we go with the brand name HomeAbroad, okay? And for domestic, of course, you know, HomeAbroad will not resonate with the US based customers, right? So that's where Ziffy comes in. And we are kind of actually actively going through a rebranding exercise where HomeAbroad will become powered by ziffy.ai. [00:13:52] You know, so at the end of the day, Ziffy is the overall umbrella brand, right? Ziffy.ai is our AI powered investment property search platform and HomeAbroad is the portion of Ziffy that's focused exclusively on foreign investors. But if you're part of our network, you get access to both clients, you get access to foreign investors, you get access to local investors. [00:14:13] Okay, perfect. So it sounds like property managers, if they're listed in this marketplace, it sounds like 1. You might be feeding them some free business from. Absolutely. HomeAbroad brand. Yep. They wouldn't be able to access otherwise. And they're able to support boots on the ground helping with the property locally. [00:14:32] Yep. [00:14:33] And then they can also leverage Ziffy and do a white label thing for their existing clients and help get them and facilitate getting them into more property. [00:14:41] Absolutely. Yep. [00:14:42] Awesome. Okay, cool. Yeah that's very cool. So how does a property manager get into this marketplace? [00:14:49] What are your qualifications? [00:14:51] So we of course, want to make sure that our clients are taken care of, you know, so we do initial vetting, just to understand, you know, you have the I would say capabilities and infrastructure to help service our clients. So everyone has a good positive experience, right? And then once we kind of have that initial meeting to vet you out, you will become part of our network. [00:15:10] We'll sign a good partnership agreement. You'll be part of the network and then, you know, you'll be listed prominently. If the customer is looking in that particular area, you know, you'll be listed prominently within that ecosystem. Now, good news is we are vertically integrated shop, right? [00:15:24] So client finds the property through a platform. We do the mortgage financing, right? And you know, we know exactly when the customer, you know, is closing that transaction, right? So we will introduce the property manager at the right time. There's no point introducing a property manager right when they're starting their journey to find an investment property, right? [00:15:42] But as soon as they close on that transaction, we'll introduce the property manager. We will expose our, you know, marketplace to them and say, "Hey, by the way, you can find the right property manager to help you manage this property from our vacant property management, based in say, Phoenix, Arizona, or say, you know, Dallas, Texas, like wherever the client is, you know, closing that transaction. [00:16:03] Right. So, we'll kind of introduce you in the right you know, point in that journey to make sure that, you know, you have a high conversion as well. ...
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DGS 296: Behind the Scenes Look at Our Current Sales Strategy for Property Managers
06/13/2025
DGS 296: Behind the Scenes Look at Our Current Sales Strategy for Property Managers
If you are still doing sales the old-fashioned way in your property management business, or selling the same way you sold 5-10 years ago, you are likely struggling to add doors right now In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull shares his current model of sales and the sales strategies working for him right now. You’ll Learn [02:26] Generating and Nurturing Leads [09:08] The Discovery Phase [14:39] Creating a Sense of Urgency [20:45] The Golden Bridge Formula Quotables “You want to be careful about the type of leads that you're getting on because it actually can limit your growth and hurt your growth.” “There's very few people searching for property management online and the biggest companies are already spending tons of money on that.” “So I want them to be clear on the problem because if they're not clear on the problem, and I'm not clear on the problem, then there's no point.” “There's always a motivator that's driven them to action.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] I've made millions and millions of dollars, right, doing sales. I've made millions of dollars and it's because I believe in what I do and I love being able to help people and being able to help people and get paid to do it almost feels like cheating, right? [00:00:15] I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. We are the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. [00:00:31] At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace entire teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, built websites for hundreds more than that, and we run the leading property management Mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:16] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. Alright, so what are we talking about today? [00:01:36] This is the first day in a while that I don't have a guest and I don't have Sarah to be on the show with me. So this is just me getting to talk about whatever I want to talk about. By myself. So Sarah is actually flying right now. She has a pilot's lesson. She's working on getting her pilot's license, which is just super awesome, very proud of her, and she's just a badass. [00:01:57] Anyone that knows her, like she just achieves, achieves, achieves. All right, so. What I wanted to talk about today is I just got done with a sales call and I was thinking, what should I talk about on today's podcast that would be really interesting? And I thought maybe some of you would like to know how does Jason sell? [00:02:17] How would he sell to me if I actually ended up getting on a call with him? How does sales go with Jason, like how does DoorGrow do sales? So let me tell you a bit about some of our processes. Okay? So sales includes the first three functions of business, which is lead generation, nurturing those leads, and converting those leads. [00:02:39] So let's start at the beginning and I think you're going to hopefully get some really strong value out of this. And I'll tell you how I sell, some of the things I would say. What I would ask, I'm going to give you a little bit of a quick masterclass on how does DoorGrow do sales? How do we do this? [00:02:55] Okay? All right, so let's talk about this. Very beginning, lead generation. So how are we getting leads? Well, at DoorGrow, we're getting leads from a lot of different channels, a lot of sources. We're doing everything from paid Facebook ads to I do this podcast, and some of these are more nurture tools, like this podcast is more nurture, that second stage, it kind of warms people up, gets people familiar. We're doing short form video. We're doing long form video. We're doing lots and lots of different stuff, right? YouTube... what else are we doing for lead gen? Also, I have three setters currently that they will do about a hundred dials a day, calling colder leads, leads that are in our system. [00:03:40] Maybe you will get a call from them at some point. And they will probably have maybe only about 10 conversations out of all those a hundred in a day, maybe even less because there's a lot of voicemails, a lot of people don't answer, you know, whatever, receptionist. So they'll have like maybe 10 or less conversations, and out of those, they'll usually get one appointment booked a day. [00:04:04] Those are kind of their stats. If they're doing at least that, then we don't fire them. Right? That's the idea. So we've got three setters. They're really great right now. We're about to add a fourth and we may continue to just add setters because we have a lot of people that they could be reaching out to. [00:04:19] So that's kind of the idea. So, they're just filling up my calendar right now. And in the past I've had sales teams, I've had closers, I've had people that would you know, do the calls, but right now I'm doing the sales calls, so if you know, pretty close to hearing this podcast, reach out. [00:04:36] You may actually end up talking directly with me. I talk with basically every single client that joins our program, gets to talk with me and there's some filters. So what happens is the setters do these dials, they schedule these appointments. Some of these appointments end up being with themselves, not with me. [00:04:51] The appointment is with the setter to qualify them, but if they're already qualified, and so this is the first stage is we do cold outreach. Then the next stage is qualification in sales. So the goal is for them to figure out: are these people that could maybe afford our program? There's the financial qualification. [00:05:09] Are they people that maybe do they have a property management business? Is it a type of property management business that maybe we could help? because not every vertical or every type of business may need help growing. Or do they need help with systems and most any property management business, we could help with that side. [00:05:24] So they're trying to figure out like are they qualified? Are they somebody that maybe could use us, that maybe we could help? And do they have enough revenue or just enough money set aside that they can maybe afford to do our program. Otherwise, I end up on a lot of calls with people that are broke, think our stuff's awesome, they can't afford to do anything, and they're starting a business or something like that. [00:05:46] Right. So that's qualification. If they're qualified during that initial quick call that they'll do with one of my setters. And sometimes I call that a fit call or a qualification call or whatever it might be. If they do that call and things go well, then the goal during that call is to book them on a next call. [00:06:06] If they just do that during their first cold interaction or cold call, they qualify the person and ask these questions. And then one of the qualifications that we do is we want to ask, what would lower your stress more as a business owner now? Would it be adding more doors? Another a hundred, 200 doors and more money? Or would it be getting your systems team and processes more dialed in so you felt comfortable adding more doors? What would help you out personally as a business owner. And so based on that answer, then my setters will send you a free training. [00:06:38] They'll send you an email. "I would love to send you this free training," and it helps you understand something that is about lead generation or something that's about process, the process myth. Basically we're breaking down two myths people believe at these stages, the leads myth. "I just need more leads," which you might be thinking if you need to grow and it's not accurate. You might think you need more leads, but we'll explain that and we'll send you free training. Just say, "Hey team, give me the leads training" on any of my social media. I want to see it. And if you want to see that, you can just go to doorgrow.com/leads and you should be able to get to that training and watch that. And that explains why you don't just need more leads and not all leads are equal. And you want to be careful about the type of leads that you're getting on because it actually can limit your growth and hurt your growth. And some leads are really expensive and it's not worth it, or you're losing money, et cetera. [00:07:28] Right. And I explain and break down why most marketing doesn't work, why you don't need to do SEO or pay per click or content marketing or paper lead or social media marketing or any of this kind of stuff to grow your property management business because there's very few people searching for property management online and the biggest companies are already spending tons of money on that. [00:07:47] So I break that all down in that leads training. Otherwise, if it's systems and team, and that's usually more like 200 door plus companies. If you're growing fast, maybe you hit that a little prematurely, like around 150 or something like that, or you break a hundred. But this is where you need team, hiring, systems, processes. [00:08:04] And most people when they get stuck in that stage of 200 to 400 doors, I call the second sand trap. The first sand trap is under a hundred doors. Right? You can't break that a hundred door barrier because you don't really know how to grow and you're taking on too many crappy doors and you get caught in the cycle of suck, et cetera. If you grow past, you get maybe into that 200 to 400 door range, usually then you're stuck because you've built a team around the business and not around yourself, which means you aren't supported. You are working harder the more people you add and the more doors you add. It takes more time and there's more questions and you're getting more stressed instead of less, which means you're doing it wrong. [00:08:42] And so I explain in that the process myth that everybody thinks, "I just need more processes, I just need more KPIs, I need more control, I need to squeeze more blood from the stone, and that will always keep you usually below four or 500 units. I don't see people break 500, 600 units unless they get good culture. [00:09:01] They like go through a lot of pain in figuring out hiring and we can help you collapse time on all of that significantly. Okay, so after that, we will send you one of those trainings and then usually my goal or hope is that you watch one of these trainings, you understand. It disrupts your current thinking, helps you see what the real problems and issues are, and then you make better decisions and you don't go waste a bunch of money with a bunch of marketing companies that exist out there and advertisers that are targeting property managers that people spend a lot of money on, don't get a lot of ROI on, and then come to us a year or two later saying, man, I've spent a lot of money and I haven't added lot of doors from that. Where have you gotten most of your doors? Word of mouth or other warm channels, things we focus on with clients. So you watch those trainings, you get on a call then with me, they'll get you scheduled for a call with me. And then I usually will do, it's usually an hour call, spend an hour, and I spend probably 90% of it asking questions. The last call I was on the. This lady said she had been you know, following me for like six years. I'm like, okay, why now? And so I go through a series of asking questions. [00:10:13] There's the beginning is like, you know, first I go through kind of connecting with them. I want to figure out what their current problem is. Why were they willing to get on a call? What's happened? I want to then figure out their current situation. What are you currently doing about whatever this problem is? Like about growth or adding doors, you know, in this particular case, she said, nothing. [00:10:32] I haven't really focused on this. I've just been getting business these other ways. So I understand the situation. How's your business set up? Sometimes people have a bad split with a broker. Like I'm always digging in. I want to understand their whole business, how it's set up so that I can figure out if I can help them because I see a lot of different problems. So I'm pretty aware of a lot of problems that are pretty common with startups. I'm pretty clear on a lot of problems at all the various stages in property management. You know, first sand trap, second sand trap, and all the other little milestones of transition in between those and everything else. [00:11:04] So. I want to figure out what their current situation is. Where are they? Can I maybe help them? And so then I need to get them aware of their own problems. So I ask questions to help them become aware of their problem. You know? Do you like your current process or what you're doing now? Sounds like things going pretty well. [00:11:20] Is there anything you would maybe change? Or maybe in the results you're getting or how you could, or what do you mean by this? How long has this been a problem? What's causing this problem? What impact is this having? Right? So I get into all these questions. And then the next stage I usually get into what sort of ideal future? So now they're clear on the problem. I've helped them, maybe even I'll reflect back emotionally. Like it sounds like this is really stressful, or it sounds like this is affecting your marriage negatively, or it sounds like whatever. So I reflect back emotion. So I want them to be clear on the problem because if they're not clear on the problem, and I'm not clear on the problem, then there's no point. Right? I can't help them. But I need them to be clear on the problem, so I ask questions to help them get clarity on that. Then I'll ask questions to figure out what do they want? What's the ideal outcome? [00:12:05] What's the ideal solution? If we were to work together for a year, where would they be hopefully? Like what do they want? And so I want to see if I can help them get out of the pain they're in now, and if they're aware of it, and then I want them to become aware of their desire or their goal, some positive future state that I can maybe help them get to. [00:12:24] And then I want to figure out, get into commitment and urgency. So I want to figure out why are you reaching out now? If you've known about this for a while or why now, is this a priority? Sounds like you've had the business for many years. There's always a motivator that's driven them to action. So I want them to be conscious of why it matters to do this now, because that creates a sense of urgency. [00:12:46] I found for a while when I wasn't doing this that I'd talk to people and they would love what we have, and they're like, this sounds amazing, and it would really help me grow, but they didn't connect in their brain why it needed to happen now, and they weren't aware of their pain and they weren't aware of what they wanted, and so there was no urgency. [00:13:03] They're like, yeah, maybe I'll do that in a few months. Or someday. And so I was like, but this is so like helpful and you really need this. But they didn't see it. And I assumed everyone understood their problem. Everybody understood their positive future they wanted. because I usually have pretty strong clarity around this stuff, but most people don't. [00:13:20] So I'm going to ask you, and I'm going to help you get clear. I'm not really trying to sell you, I'm trying to help you figure out what you want and then see if maybe you want what I can maybe help you with. So I get them clear on their ideal outcomes and solution, and I create this positive alternate future with them. [00:13:40] Then I go back to commitment urgency. Why now? You don't have to do this now, so why not put it off? And then they'll tell me they find a reason why it matters to do it now. Well, it's like, what's the main reason for doing this now? Like, you've been aware of us for a long time, six years, you know, or you've been listening to my podcast for a year. [00:13:59] Why now are you doing this? And when I ask why now? It's a powerful sales question. I get some crazy answers. I had one client say, "my fiance passed away a month ago. He would want me to do this," right? Or I've had somebody say, "I have cancer and I need to get this business ready so my wife can take over it because I'm not going to be around much longer." I mean, serious stuff comes out that I never would've known. And I'm like, what's motivating you to do this now? Why does this matter now? And if I'm aware of that, then I can be even more empathetic. I can, you know, understand where they're coming from. And once I get clear on that, then I want to get into consequence. [00:14:39] We've already built up positive alternate reality. Right? Now I want to get into the negative current path they're on, like what's the consequence? Because the consequence is going to be that they don't get this positive future that they're hoping for, right? If they just keep doing this on their own, they'll have more of what they've had in the past. [00:14:58] So usually I get into questions like, what happens if you don't achieve this goal? You said you wanted to achieve X in the next 12 months. What happens if you don't make that? Or what happens if this continues? You don't end up working with us or any other coach or anyone else. And it just continues. [00:15:14] Because if they're not willing to explore failure or a negative future, they're not going to be motivated to take action now. I asked one gentleman this on a sales call after going through all of this, he was really stressed, but he didn't see it. He probably would've continued doing it forever. [00:15:29] You know, he was really stressed and I said, well, after getting clear on his stress and all this, I said, how much longer do you think you could deal with this? He's like, honestly, now that I'm thinking about it, I think I can handle another 30 days and then I'm going to just quit this business and I'm out. [00:15:45] I was like, whoa, that's, that sounds really serious. He's like, yeah, I'm just burnt out. And when you help people get clarity, they can't tolerate it anymore. They're like, I'm done. I don't want this anymore. I want out now. I want to solve this now. Right? Amazon now, give me Amazon things right now, like people get impatient when they recognize there is an alternate, there is a path, there is something else, or they're clear, oh, I am dealing with a problem. [00:16:08] I've just been so comfortable in it. It's kind of like that frog in the water that's warming up a little bit, but you could boil the frog and it won't jump out because it just gets so comfortable that eventually it's cooked, right? You've been in your business so long, you don't even maybe see it until somebody asks you or creates contrast. [00:16:24] Says, well, where are you at now? Where will you be in the future positively if you get help? And where will you be negatively in the future? So this is where we get into the consequence, and then once they're clear on that, then I get into the presentation. Right? And so this is...
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DGS 295: Do These Things Before Hiring a Sales Setter in Your Property Management Business
06/06/2025
DGS 295: Do These Things Before Hiring a Sales Setter in Your Property Management Business
Recently, Sarah was working with a BDM (salesperson) who believed she was ready to hire a sales setter to help with some of the sales outreach and follow up. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss how to know when you need to hire a sales setter and things you can do to increase your sales volume without one. You’ll Learn [00:43] The Importance of Having Sales Metrics and Data [05:45] Setting Your Salesperson Up for Success [07:57] More Volume = More Results [09:47] The Two Main Components of Sales Quotables “There are certain things that we're gauging all the time in our business, but I think sales has to be probably number one.” “ You have a BDM and they're good at sales and you have them doing anything other than sales, you are making a very stupid mistake because that's the lifeblood of the business.” “Just do more of the things that you should be doing and you'll get more results.” “If something's not working, you just got to not tolerate it.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: I bet you, you can just get more results by doing more work, which means stop doing the other things that you're doing. [00:00:05] Sarah: Just do more of the things that you should be doing and you'll get more results. And then you can probably don't even need to pay a setter. [00:00:12] Jason: We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. And we're going to keep this episode a little brief, so I'm going to skip some of our intro. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:00:31] Jason: We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. [00:00:41] Jason: Alright. What are we chatting about today? [00:00:43] Sarah: Alright. I wanted to talk about this just because I think it happens a lot in business and we have to just kind of gauge, right? So there are certain things that we're gauging all the time in our business, but I think sales has to be probably number one. So one of our clients had asked me last week on the scale call she's a BDM, so she does all the sales and she said, "Hey, we are actually thinking about hiring an appointment setter. And they will kind of help with a lot of the outbound calls and you know, the follow up and the scheduling and you know, rescheduling any appointments and just kind of like staying on top of things and making sure that everything is being tracked and, you know, moving forward and doing a whole bunch of outbound calls." [00:01:36] Sarah: That's really what setters do is they just sit and call all day long. Yeah. So she says, "yeah, we're thinking about hiring this sales setter, and I want to know what you think about it." So the first thing I did is I was like, okay, if you actually need a sales setter, then like, here's the Rdoc and that's great. [00:01:56] Sarah: Like, we would hire a sales setter... [00:01:58] Jason: which is a job description for those unfamiliar. [00:02:00] Sarah: Yes. So we would hire a sales setter the same way that we would hire A BDM. Mm-hmm. I always recommend going through the DoorGrow Hiring process, but before we really dig into the hiring piece is we should first figure out is this actually something that you need right now? [00:02:16] Sarah: So one of the tools that we have for our clients in our client workbook is a sales tracker, and I happened to pull up the sales tracker for them just out of curiosity. And lucky for me, she had actually filled it out. So my one recommendation is for whoever is doing sales, and if it's multiple people, then that's fine. Multiple people need to then fill out the sales tracker. So fill out the sales tracker at the end of every single day. This is like your end of day report. [00:02:42] Sarah: If you have two BDMs, then they both need to be doing it. If you have a, BDM and a setter, they both need to be doing it. It doesn't matter. [00:02:50] Sarah: Every single sales person needs to be filling out and submitting their own data and metrics. So I said, well, let me look through your sales tracker. Now, she did not have it filled out consistently every day. There were some days that she had it filled out. There were some days that were not filled out. [00:03:07] Sarah: And then there were some days that had pretty solid data, and there were some days that had like, you know, "I did three to four hours," or "I did, you know, six to eight appointments." Well, is it six, is it seven or is it eight? So don't give me like the range, give me the actual raw data. So I was looking through this, and even with the data that she had in there, I was able to kind of make an assessment. [00:03:31] Sarah: I said, "listen, if this was my business, I would not be, at this point in time, I would not be looking at hiring a sales setter. The reason being is that with the resources that we currently have, which is A BDM, what we need to do is just turn up the volume for the BDM. And once that BDM is totally maxed out, then we can look to see, hey, do we actually need some additional support? [00:03:59] Sarah: And that might be a sales setter. So what I was noticing, and now she's a newer hire. She's been there only a few months and she's doing a great job so far. So. The early on data, she was still in training and onboarding and learning and kind of testing and figuring things out. And you could see that as you go down the list, the later the date, the better results that she was getting. [00:04:24] Sarah: So in the very beginning, she was maybe doing like half an hour or 45 minutes a day, and later on in the list she was doing, you know, one to two hours and then she was doing three to four hours. And then she tends to do about four hours a day on average now. And then same thing with phone calls. [00:04:41] Sarah: You know, she would do, you know, a couple of phone calls in the beginning and then later on down in the data you would see, hey, she was doing more phone calls, she was getting, doing more time. She was doing more phone calls. She was setting more appointments, and therefore some things were starting to close. [00:04:58] Sarah: But what I could also see is that she is not fully maxed out. [00:05:01] Jason: Right. [00:05:01] Sarah: So if we have a BDM who is full-time, meaning at least 30, maybe even 40 hours a week, and they're doing four hours per day, that's like 20 hours a week. So that's like part-time BDM work. Yeah. So then what is happening with the rest of the time? [00:05:18] Sarah: So I said, "first of all, anything that you are doing at all that does not have to do with sales, cut it out immediately. Stop it. If you're on like client success meetings, because the property manager was also on that call." Yeah. So, and I know that they work in tandem. They work as a team, which is really great. [00:05:34] Sarah: Like the team culture there is fantastic. But when you're dragging the salespeople into the customer service side. [00:05:42] Jason: Big mistake. [00:05:43] Sarah: You're costing yourself so much money. [00:05:45] Jason: I want to comment on that just real quick. I mean, everybody listening, if you have anybody in your organization that's good at sales, whether it's you that should be doing the sales and you don't have anyone else to do it, and you're the business owner, or you have a BDM and they're good at sales and you have them doing anything other than sales, you are making a very stupid mistake because that's the lifeblood of the business. They feed the business, they pay everybody else's salary. They're the only people that bring money, fresh money into the business. And they should not be dabbling as a property manager. They should not be dabbling as a leasing agent. They should not be dabbling or picking up slack for anybody else. [00:06:27] Jason: No. Hire other people if you need to, but get your salesperson spending full time spending their time on sales if they're good and they will make you a lot of money. And having them do anything else is a massive waste of a resource. [00:06:40] Sarah: Absolutely. I've said it like this before, if you have a star quarterback on a football team, do you want that quarterback doing any other, like playing any other position? [00:06:50] Jason: I like that analogy. [00:06:51] Sarah: Do you want them kicking? Do you want them walking? Do you want them to be a tight end? [00:06:54] Jason: No, there'd be dumb. No. [00:06:56] Sarah: Why? Why on earth would you do that? No. If I've got somebody who can hurl that ball with pinpoint precision and accuracy to any spot on the field at will... [00:07:08] Jason: don't make them a kicker. [00:07:09] Sarah: I got to preserve that resource. And then I'm like, that's literally the only thing you're going to do. [00:07:14] Jason: The kickers, kick. That's all the kickers do. The kickers do one thing. They just kick the ball's. That's it, and they're not used very often. Like, it would be ridiculous to say, "you know what, kicker, why don't you also occasionally be our backup quarterback?" [00:07:26] Jason: Like, you're second string now. Like, it just, it doesn't make sense. If he could be a quarterback, he would not be a kicker. [00:07:32] Sarah: Right. [00:07:33] Jason: Yeah. [00:07:33] Sarah: Yeah. So I said, anything that you're doing that is not sales, stop it immediately. Like today. Don't stop it. Monday. Stop it today. Okay. That's it, period. That's number one. [00:07:43] Sarah: Then number two, we need to just get more time out of you. So if you're doing, you know, four hours a day, what's the rest of your time being spent doing? So we just needed, we need to spend more time and then we just need to increase the number of calls. So she actually happens to be in my accountability group. So that call was Friday. Every Monday, we have a telegram group that it's real quick, it's just an accountability group. We set a personal goal and a professional goal for the upcoming week, and then we give updates on the previous week. And her goal for monday, like this past Monday was to do a minimum of 100 calls per day after our call on Friday. [00:08:24] Sarah: Which is awesome because I said, "you have to increase the volume. Yeah. So that you can get more results. And then once we have the volume increased so much that you cannot add anymore. You are absolutely maxed out. You can't add more time without, you know, working like 80 hours a week. [00:08:40] Sarah: We can't add more time. We can't do more calls. We can't possibly like squeeze any more, you know, blood from the stone. Now I know you're maxed out. Now it might make sense to look at either hiring another BDM or hiring a setter. [00:08:55] Jason: Yeah. [00:08:55] Sarah: But right now, you are not maxed out. All you need to do is just increase your volume so that you can get more results, because I bet you, you can just get more results by doing more work, which means stop doing the other things that you're doing. [00:09:06] Sarah: Just do more of the things that you should be doing and you'll get more results. And then you can probably don't even need to pay a setter. [00:09:14] Jason: Yeah. So we have three setters. Yesterday they made 200 calls between the three of them. And they each booked... on a Monday.... they each... yeah, on a Monday, which is hard for property manager, for property managers. [00:09:24] Sarah: Come on. [00:09:24] Jason: And they each booked a one appointment, which is pretty good. But that's a lot of calls. And we have a lot of other growth engines installed at DoorGrow, but we're getting almost 300 calls a day. And we'll probably add some more setters, but like, we're doing outreach and so this is the game. [00:09:41] Jason: This is the game. And if you're not putting in the numbers, but you're like, "maybe it's not working," you don't get the game. Yeah. [00:09:47] Sarah: So my big thing is there's two things. There are two main components of sales, and almost every single, if not every single problem that you have in sales. It all boils down to one of these two things I can almost guarantee it. [00:10:02] Sarah: One is volume, and two is AB testing. That's all sales is, and if you fix your volume and you AB test everything to optimize for best results, you will never have a sales problem. [00:10:15] Jason: Yeah. [00:10:15] Sarah: So that's what we figure out here at DoorGrow, how to have people optimize, AB testing and volume. And that's why our clients can get the results that they're able to. [00:10:26] Sarah: That's why our clients can get results that other people aren't able to. They're like, oh, I'm doing like all these calls. I'm doing all this stuff. Yeah, but you're not doing it. Either you're not doing enough or you're not AB testing the right way. And you're not using the right strategies. [00:10:38] Sarah: Yeah. I mean everything. Like, listen, I can give you a list of, you know, a thousand people and you can call them your way and we can call them our way and we'll get better results. Why? Because we've AB tested everything. Yeah. So it's always, it's either volume or AB testing. Yeah. [00:10:51] Sarah: Those two things. And you will never have a sales problem again. [00:10:55] Jason: If something's not working, you just got to not tolerate it. That's the problem, is at each stage there's things that are not working if you're not getting deals, and if you don't change what's not working and you keep doing it the same way, you're going to keep getting the same result. And so this is what we coach on. We're like, cool. You need to fix that step now, this step in the pipeline, now this step. And until you get everything dialed in, it's not really working. But once you get the whole growth engine built out, it's all unclogged, the water's flowing, then you're making money. [00:11:25] Jason: And that's why I say it's the last 10% of getting things dialed in that gives you 90% of the results. All right. [00:11:31] Sarah: All right. [00:11:31] Jason: Okay, so if you felt stuck or stagnant and want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. You can also join our free community at doorgrowclub.com, our Facebook group. [00:11:43] Jason: And if you found this even a little bit helpful, help us out. Don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.
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DGS 294: From "Rent Collector" to "Asset Manager"
05/22/2025
DGS 294: From "Rent Collector" to "Asset Manager"
What if you could retain the doors you manage even when your owners decide to sell? What would that mean for you and your property management business? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Lior from Blanket to talk about how property managers can retain doors while also helping investors grow and add more to their portfolios. You’ll Learn [02:59] Property Managers Can Become Asset Managers [11:13] Valuable Lessons Learned from Tough Situations [25:40] How to Move into More of an Asset Manager Role [37:25] Reducing Client and Retaining Clients [47:51] Helping Your Investors Grow Their Portfolios Quotables “You have to be very robotic, very technical, and that is one of the most important skills that really allows me to face difficult, you know, decisions in life, especially in business, without taking them personally.” “When you are rational and you're not driven by emotions, that actually allows you to be a lot more, you know, empathetic and kind and caring.” “There are no failures in life. There are only challenges, and every challenge is an opportunity for success.” ”Why be so focused on the failure if you can be focused on the lesson that you're going to learn, even before you even know it?” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Lior: The combination of these two, this is what allows you to be that ultimate asset manager to your clients. That can help your clients, optimize their portfolio and generate more cash flow, but on the other hand, help them make more money by expanding their portfolio, buying more properties, and growing it. [00:00:18] Jason: Welcome everybody to the DoorGrow Show. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. We are the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. [00:00:31] Jason: For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. [00:00:52] Jason: We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:17] Jason: At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right, so today I'm hanging out with Lior. [00:01:37] Jason: How do you say your last name? Abramovich? [00:01:42] Jason: Abramovich. [00:01:43] Jason: Abramovich. Man. I butchered that one. All right. So with Blanket, he's repping it on a t-shirt, if you're seeing the video version of this. And so, Lior, we've had several calls, hanging out and you're just a really cool guy and we've really enjoyed hanging out. [00:02:01] Jason: Yeah. We've really enjoyed hanging out. He's given me a heart shape with his hand for those listening. But I haven't had you on the podcast yet, have I? [00:02:09] Lior: True. This is the first time. [00:02:11] Jason: Yeah. That's so odd to me. Usually people start by doing the podcast with me and so we're doing the reverse. [00:02:17] Jason: And you're a sponsor at DoorGrow Live, our conference coming up. Thank you. And we're really excited to have you there. One of our vendors said it's the only conference he still attends now. That's it. He's like, "it's the one I get the most value from learning, and the other ones just aren't worth the, you know, paying to go be a vendor there." [00:02:36] Jason: And I'm like, okay, cool. So hopefully you get some benefit from doing that as well. So I'm excited Lior to expose people to Blanket because I think it's very complimentary to our vision and what we do at DoorGrow in helping grow property managers. And I would call it like a client retention platform, but maybe you describe it differently. [00:02:57] Jason: But before we get into that, why don't we give some background on you and why don't you tell everybody how you kind of got into entrepreneurism, then got into property management and give us some backstory. We need the origin story of Lior. [00:03:11] Lior: Will do. I'll try to make it exciting and interesting. [00:03:13] Jason: Okay. [00:03:14] Lior: I started from real estate. I didn't start from the tech side or from, you know, the startup world. I started as an investor. I bought my first rental property in Atlanta, Georgia when I was about 18 years old. So started quite early with a lot of inspiration from my mom, which is my role model in life for pretty much everything. [00:03:33] Lior: And at that point in time, I actually was doing that investment from Israel, thousands of miles away. This is where I was born and raised. I actually moved here to the States just about a year, yeah, exactly a year ago. Moved to Miami, Florida. After just, you know, living on the line, flying back and forth almost every month for multiple years, but in that first stage of like my, you know, real estate, I would say career, at that point I also started my active duty service in the Israeli Navy. [00:04:05] Lior: So I'm a graduate of the Israeli Naval Academy, then served for almost nine years as a naval commander commanding hundreds of soldiers, officers, and combat soldiers in quite intense and interesting situations I would say. That's a whole topic that we can talk about for hours in another podcast. [00:04:25] Lior: Yeah. Episode. [00:04:26] Jason: Interesting. I didn't know that about you. [00:04:28] Lior: Yeah. That was quite an intense nine years and definitely shaped me as a person and as an entrepreneur as well. Most of what I know, most of what I do, most of what I act upon is pretty much majority, you know, of what I learned and implemented in myself as a person in my qualities, in my values, in my worldviews through that time in the Navy. [00:04:52] Lior: And, you know, before that, before like that step of buying that first rental property, it's not like it came from out of nowhere. You know, probably I started as most of our listeners today by reading the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki when I was about 13 years old. Again, my mom gave me that as a birthday gift at 13 years old. [00:05:14] Lior: And to me it was fascinating, this whole concept that you can, you know, like make money from like a property that you actually took money from the bank to pay for it, and it pays for itself and it makes some extra money. So this whole like very, you know, conceptualized plan was very interesting to me. [00:05:35] Lior: And I said like, this is something I would like to do at some capacity in my life. Especially because the fact that I was born for a family of immigrants, my entire family came from Ukraine to Israel. So we didn't have, you know, very good financial you know, let's say position in life as most immigrants do. [00:05:54] Lior: And my grandparents don't have, you know, today also a pension plan that, or that's how we call it in Israel. And here we call it 401k. So they don't have that. And to me, real estate was always a way to take care of my loved ones, to take care of my grandparents, to be able to at least give them one rental property that can enable them stable, and I would say secure financial retirement, and just really retire with dignity, retire safely. And that was like the big why behind everything I'm doing. So. Quick, you know, fast forward nine years in the Navy, kept doing real estate throughout that time. Helped a lot of my fellow naval officers to buy properties in the United States. [00:06:38] Lior: Okay. And then started working for a big investment firm in the United States that was doing build to rent before build to rent was a thing. You know, today, you know, people are talking about build to rent is with this cool name, but back then we just called it new construction you know, for investors. [00:06:52] Lior: So we were one of the largest operators in the Southeast. We were one of the largest operators, specifically in Georgia and Alabama. And I started there as their head of acquisitions quickly promoted to vice president of business development, overseeing our entire operation from due diligence, meaning land acquisition development, and then, you know, disposition and sales and marketing. [00:07:14] Lior: So, really had the opportunity to experience every part of the value chain of real estate investments from start to finish, seeing all the good, seeing all the bad, I had, you know, contractors that went bankrupt in the middle of a 300 property community. And I had very good stories as well. But that whole period of time of me working there for almost three years was the best school I ever got to really, you know, operate as an operator and manage an operation of hundreds of millions of dollars because in that time alone, I personally oversaw about $200 million worth of acquisitions and worked directly with over a thousand individual investors, mainly mom and pop investors, like most of you know, the clients of most of our listeners today. And the unique thing about it, and this is where Blanket sort of like starts to form up as an idea, the unique thing about my position in that company was that it had a very interesting model where. [00:08:16] Lior: All the clients that we sold properties to, which were clients, by the way, all over the world. We worked with buyers from Israel, Canada, Russia, China, Australia, like everywhere. You know, that was one of our, you know, major, I would say efficiencies, which we were working with a lot of foreign investors and we are one of the biggest drivers of that. [00:08:38] Lior: So we've seen pretty much everything in every one of those clients that we actually sell the property to we kept managing the relationship with them instead of the property manager. So think of that company as like an investor relations arm, right? Where you refer that client after we sell a property to a property manager partner that we worked with and we worked with a lot of folks and then that property manager is not talking with that owner. [00:09:05] Lior: No headaches, no nothing. We are managing that owner. So every time the owner has a question, he sends that to us and if we need, we escalate that to the property manager. If the property manager wants to convey something, he escalates that. So like he gives it to us and we pass it on to the owner. But the whole notion was that we will be their asset manager and this whole thing enabled me to see all the things that work and all the things that don't work when it comes to owner relationships and how property managers manage their owner relationships, especially with the things that are missing, which is what owners expect and what property managers don't provide, which leads in many cases to churn. [00:09:48] Lior: And that churn problem that today is pretty much the same as it has been 10 years ago, which is almost 25 to 30% annually. That's the average in the industry today in terms of how many properties we're losing today as property managers. So in that aspect, like you think to yourself, okay, what's causing that? [00:10:09] Lior: And that was the question that always led me to ask all my property management partners. Why are you losing so many clients? Like, we know we're doing an awesome job as your asset manager and you know, but like why is this a big problem in your business today? Yeah, and a lot of it was always due to owner sales or to owner experience, which we were solving a lot for because we were taking care of those owners. [00:10:33] Lior: So every time they wanted to sell a property, they told us and we were able to sell it inside the other, you know, the network of property owners and clients. And also when they... [00:10:43] Jason: if somebody wanted to sell property that was a client, you would be able to turn around and sell to one of your other clients so that you continued to keep the property, which is exactly awesome, which is a no brainer. [00:10:55] Jason: And I'm sure a lot of property managers like say that would be the ideal. That'd be great if I can do the sales, get those commissions, and still be able to keep the property in my portfolio. That would be really great. Exactly. Blanket helps do this, right? [00:11:11] Lior: Yeah. We'll get to Blanket in a second. [00:11:13] Jason: I have a question before we continue. You mentioned being in the military and being in the Navy and being Navy commander. I didn't know this about you. So what do you feel like that did to change you? How do you feel like you would be different if you hadn't have gone through that? [00:11:30] Lior: It will be pretty much everything that I know and everything that I do. [00:11:33] Lior: But if I were to pick a few, I would say main things that were changed in how I view the world and how I operate, number one is being more rational than emotional, pretty much about everything. My mom even jokes all the time. She says, I'm like a robot, like you know, I'm not driven by emotions at all. [00:11:54] Lior: And that is one of the things that you have to sort of develop yourself into, when you're dealing with life threatening, you know, situations, you have to be rational. You have to be very robotic, very technical, and that is one of the most important skills that really allows me to face difficult, you know, decisions in life, especially in business, without taking them personally. [00:12:16] Lior: And, you know, it's business. [00:12:17] Jason: I love, I love that idea. One of my favorite books lately is this book by a guy named Jerr, this philosopher, and it's called, The Wall Speaks and it's all about building a masculine frame. And it's being less emotional, displaying less emotion, and how that earns you respect and how that makes people around you, especially women, feel safer and everything else. [00:12:40] Jason: And this is something that just, if you are in very challenging situations. Like war, you know, military, whatever, like you learn this naturally. It's just, it hardwires it into you and. Yeah, exactly. Over emotionality is going to make a lot more sense. It's much more rational. So yeah, I think that's a great principle. [00:13:03] Lior: I would say even more than that, because probably, you know. The first thing that comes to mind when you hear that is like, oh, I don't want to be, you know, a cold person or a very, you know, apethetic person, like someone who doesn't, you know, acknowledge other people's feelings, et cetera. Sure. I say on the contrary, when you are very rational and you're not clouded by emotions, you are emotionally available to express emotion, to express care, to express, you know, concern about the other person in front of you, because you're not all centered in what you are feeling right now because something is, you know, bothering you and you're like all into that. [00:13:42] Lior: Instead, you are able to look at the other person in front of you and think how they're feeling. Think what, you know, what can help them feel better. So like when you are rational and you're not driven by emotions, that actually allows you to be a lot more, you know, empathetic and kind and caring. [00:14:00] Lior: Because you're not centered on what you're feeling and what you're experiencing, then you can really be thinking about the other person. [00:14:07] Jason: Yeah. I love that. I think in order to reach that space, like it talks about in the wall speaks, we have to get out of this mode of trying to please everybody and trying to please others. [00:14:17] Jason: And so when we're so concerned about how everyone feels about us and we're too concerned about emotion, then we're trying to please everybody. So I love this idea this first point of rationale over emotion. This is super important in business. [00:14:31] Jason: And I love the idea that it actually enables you to be a better leader, to be able to take in and take into account other people's emotions and to see things from their perspective, because that's a more rational viewpoint than getting overly, you know, steeped in your own emotion and which blinds you to what others are feeling and what others are experiencing. [00:14:53] Jason: So you said that's number one. So I'm guessing there's a number two. [00:14:55] Lior: There are, there are a lot. There are a lot more, but we'll keep to the I would say to the big ones. Yeah. The second thing is this very strong belief. I would say almost religious belief that there are no failures in life. [00:15:12] Lior: There are only challenges, and every challenge is an opportunity for success. Love it. That whole perspective. Well, it takes time to really live by it, but once you live by it, you don't have stress, you don't have, you don't worry about stuff. On the contrary you're getting excited about things that don't work. [00:15:33] Lior: You're getting excited about, you know, things that you would normally call failures because you're excited about what's on the other end of that. What's the lesson to be learned and what's the improvement that you're going to bring? So instead of. Being concerned about this thing right now, that it's not working. [00:15:50] Lior: You are excited, positively about what is going to happen after that because it's going to make you better. It's going to make your business better. So like this whole notion of understanding that at the end of every problem, challenge, failure, that some people might call, on the other side of that, there's always a good side. [00:16:13] Lior: Like think of it as like a coin, right? Like that's how I try to see, you know, failures in life. On one side you see the failure, you know, as some people would call it. But on the other side is the lesson, and every failure has that lesson. So why be so focused on the failure if you can be focused on the lesson that you're going to learn, even before you even know it? But you know there will be something there. You know you will be better. You know your business will be better. So let's get excited about that. [00:16:40] Jason: Yeah, I love this idea so much. I often say I either win or I learn. [00:16:46] Lior: Exactly. [00:16:47] Jason: There's the only way you lose is if you quit or you give up. That's it. Like, so I either win or I learn. And I love this idea that, you know, after every struggle or failure or uncomfortable emotional experience or challenging, you know, thing in life, if we don't learn from it, then yeah, it's just trauma. It's just a problem. But if you learn from it, it becomes the bricks by which you build your character, by which you build a whole new life and a whole new self image. And if you learn from it, you're destined to not repeat it as well, which is nice. So you learn the lesson. Exactly. [00:17:23] Jason: And I think, you know, God and the universe keeps giving us the same lessons over and over again, maybe in stronger and stronger fashion until we finally learn the lesson. And I think going along with these two points, which relates heavily is being open and willing to take feedback from others, you know? [00:17:42] Jason: And so one of the...
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DGS 293: Innovating the Property Management Industry: What's New at DoorGrow
05/08/2025
DGS 293: Innovating the Property Management Industry: What's New at DoorGrow
DoorGrow has been helping property management business owners transform and grow their businesses for over a decade… what’s changed? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull explore some of the things DoorGrow has been working on in the last 5 years to innovate the property management industry. You’ll Learn [01:24] Why DoorGrow Continues to Innovate [06:94] Helping Property Managers Avoid Common Mistakes [13:23] Changes and Improvements to the DoorGrow Mastermind [21:52] Innovative New Sales Strategies Quotables “A lot of people think, ‘I just need more leads. I just need to turn that on.’ And they ignore this hose that has six major leaks in it.” “If you ask them the right questions, people will basically sell themselves.” “It's like when you go to a buffet, you're not going to eat everything at the buffet… You only want to eat the things that you want right now.” “You are the sum of the five property management business owners that you're the most connected to.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: Do you have any idea how powerful it is to be connected to a coach? 24 hours a day? Like there is no time in the world that you cannot message us. [00:00:08] Jason: All right. We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improved pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind for the industry with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. [00:00:59] Jason: At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:09] Jason: At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. [00:01:13] Jason: We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:24] Jason: Alright, so today, what are we talking about, Sarah? [00:01:28] Jason: We're talking about what's new. [00:01:30] Jason: So we've helped a lot of clients in the past, and if we've helped you three, five, maybe 10 years ago, there's been a lot that's changed at DoorGrow because we innovate and make changes pretty quickly, right? [00:01:44] Jason: And we've got systems for innovation in our business. And so, I think this is why we have the most comprehensive program in the industry and why nobody else can keep up with our pace and our level of creating and innovating and adding new stuff. And so a lot of you maybe have listened to this podcast a bit, maybe a while, maybe you're past clients. Maybe you've never worked with DoorGrow, but I'm going to talk about some of the stuff we've implemented since somebody was maybe a client in our older programs, like our seed program, or maybe did some initial marketing stuff with us back in the day. And so we're going to chat a little bit about what's new since then. [00:02:24] Jason: And so if you are a past client, this will be a great episode for you to catch up on what is new at DoorGrow. And if you'd like us to go deeper, I have a 37 minute video I recorded with slides on this subject going into a little bit more detail, but we're going to skim through some of this and help you understand there's a lot of innovation. [00:02:44] Jason: So if you had some connection with DoorGrow in the past, since then, we have become the world leaders at growing and scaling property management companies. And especially in the long term residential space. We've become the world leaders of property management branding. Like I said in the intro, we've rebranded over 300 companies. [00:03:04] Jason: We have launched hundreds of websites, more than we've done rebrands. And so hundreds and hundreds of websites. And we're still the leader in building responsive mobile friendly WordPress sites for property managers, which is the world's leading content management system. And if you're past client, you might be due for a website refresh. [00:03:24] Jason: We have over 70 different designs you can choose from, and they are clean designs, they're set up so that these sites, we call them seed sites, they're optimized for conversions, they're optimized to build trust. And so if it's, if you have an old website from us, you might be due for a refresh and we can certainly help you with that. [00:03:46] Jason: And past clients, we'll give you a discounted rate. So we're really great at doing websites for those that aren't a past client. And so, reach out, we can help you with that. And we include websites for free in some of our programs. You still have to pay like the support costs monthly, but the design piece, which normally is thousands of dollars to get a site built, we cover and take care of that. [00:04:09] Jason: That's included in our mastermind program. Related to that, we've also launched the world's leading mastermind for long-term residential property managers called The DoorGrow Mastermind. So, do you want to talk about this one? [00:04:22] Sarah: Sure. I guess. Okay. All right. So one of the things that we had launched, what, like two years ago now maybe? [00:04:29] Sarah: Yeah. Is what we call the DoorGrow code. So what we've done is we've just seen over the many years and over Jason talking with thousands of property managers. He's just amassed a whole bunch of data. And after that happens, then you start to kind of see some patterns. So. What we did is we created this whole map that lays out stage by stage and step by step. [00:04:56] Sarah: The various different ,I'm going to call them stages, of a property management business. So all the way from, "I'm brand new, I have no doors yet, not quite sure I really want to get started, but I, you know, I don't actually have any clients yet" to, "well, now I have my first client and then I'm growing up to, you know, 50, a hundred, 200, 300, 400 doors, all the way up to a thousand plus. So we've created this whole roadmap, and then if you're in the DoorGrow Mastermind, we also have created some corresponding belt levels. So we kind of like a martial arts system, we've created different color coded built levels that corresponds to both your door count and your income because both things are important. [00:05:43] Sarah: And what are the things that you need to do at each different stage in order to progress to the next level in your business? Meaning you are making more revenue, you're adding more doors, and hopefully you're stepping back a bit from the things that you're not loving in the business. [00:06:02] Jason: Yeah, and we call that the DoorGrow code, like we've cracked the code on growth and this is based on talking to thousands of property managers. [00:06:09] Jason: We started to notice a pattern. So if you'd like a copy of the DoorGrow code and see where you're at and stuck, reach out to us. We'd be happy to send you a copy. Just shoot us a DM on any social platform. Say, Hey. Just send us the word code and we'll, we can send you information about the DoorGrow code and that'll help you get some clarity on where you're at. [00:06:28] Jason: So that's been a game changer. We used to have this old program called the Seed Program, where we would kind of clean up their business and get it ready for growth. And it used to be a six month program. Some clients would take a year to do it. We've replaced that with a 90 day Rapid Revamp program, and so our Rapid Revamp program is even faster and this is where usually I use a diagram of a hose and there's like a faucet to turn on the hose. And that faucet Or spigot, it usually says lead generation. A lot of people think, "I just need more leads. I just need to turn that on." And they ignore this hose that has six major leaks in it, and so we've identified six major leaks, and so as part of this Rapid Revamp. [00:07:09] Jason: We spend like three months with clients, usually our newer clients that come on board, we do this first. This is like sharpening the ax before we go try to chop down trees, you know, try to do the work to grow the business, and we're optimizing it for growth and we're shoring up those six major leaks. [00:07:24] Jason: And the big leaks are branding, reviews, website, pricing, trust, and sales, your pitch. So we call it positioning, perception, presence, pricing, purpose, and pitch. And if we can get those things really well dialed in, we find that companies without even changing their lead gen sources, can double the amount of deals that they're getting on right now. [00:07:43] Jason: So if you feel like it's been hard and you can't see why, these are usually six major blind spots. And this is why it's been so hard. If we can get this stuff dialed in, even without changing any of the lead sources, however you're getting business right now, you could potentially double the amount of business you're getting on just by getting these leaks shored up. [00:08:02] Jason: And do you want to talk about pricing? [00:08:04] Sarah: Okay. Pricing is actually one of the things that we cover now in the Rapid Revamp. And what we've noticed is even companies that grow to a considerable door count, most of the times their pricing is still just not great. I think we have yet to see a business that their pricing is already optimized, so a lot of times, they're leaving money on the table, which is so awful. Because you're working so hard for your money. Yeah. And you're just not making enough of it. And there's some statistics and data from NARPM. If you ever look at the NARPM data and you look at what like the average property manager's profit margin is, it's pretty abysmal. Yeah. And this is one of the reasons why. [00:08:48] Sarah: It's not the like the only reason, but it's one of the big ones. It's one of the factors. Pricing. So what we've figured out is, hey, a lot of property managers, they just kind of go with the flow. They do what the competition in their market is doing. You know, they just kind of, sometimes they wing it and they go, I think this is good. [00:09:07] Sarah: And they put something together. And when we come in and take a look at it, we can find thousands of dollars more per year. So like Anthony O'Reilly Brookes just said a couple weeks ago on the pricing, he's like, oh, if I just do this one change, I don't even have to do all of these changes. He is like, if I just do this one change, then I can make myself an extra $26,000 a year. [00:09:28] Jason: Yeah. This is one of our clients. It was great. So yeah, so we had an old training. We were the first to roll out kind of the three tier sort of pricing model to bring this to the industry. The basic idea was based around the Goldilocks principle and how it's easier to sell if you have three different types of pricing based on three types of buyers. Pricing secrets, we've rolled out 2.0. [00:09:51] Jason: So some of our past clients, you've gone through our original pricing secrets. You've have maybe a three tier model or maybe at least three plans sort of. Some of you maybe have lease only as one of them, which we don't recommend anymore. But now we've got this three tier hybrid pricing model and I got some of the idea from Scott Brady, really brilliant property manager. [00:10:14] Jason: He was using a hybrid model for pricing out associations. I then put my own spin on it based on what I know about pricing psychology. And I believe this is the most ethical and easiest to sell model. And it allows you to be unique and sell against all your competitors and to kind of poison the well against flat fee companies or percentage based companies. [00:10:36] Jason: And so it gives you competitive advantage and it helps you close more deals more easily at higher price points. So we've got that. The next thing we've made some big advancements into sales. So some of you went through my old Sales secrets training and and this was old school sales, like it was based on NLP neurolinguistic programming. [00:10:57] Jason: It was based on different formulas of communication that some would maybe calm, manipulative, but the idea, and I would present at the beginning, like, don't be evil. You know, like, these are powerful techniques. Well, a lot of the old school sort of sales tactics of high pressure closing and a lot of training you get from most salespeople and people that are known for sales really isn't working in the last three to five years. [00:11:23] Jason: And so there's kind of this new model of selling that needs to be done. And because we're in this post trust era, like everybody's been kind of exposed and woken up a little bit that everything's kind of fake. The news is fake. The pandemic's fake. Voting's fake. Like, like nobody knows who to trust or what to trust because we realize we've just been gaslighted and lied to by everything. Especially the government and powers that are over us. And so nobody trusts anything anymore. And so there's a new model of selling that allows you to create trust that we've learned and rolled out, and we get into some cool tactics like the three dominoes to creating the ultimate pitch. [00:12:05] Jason: I have a model of four phase selling, which is a simple framework for understanding four simple phrases to take people through when having a conversation. And then our Golden Bridge formula, which is even if you learn nothing else, is the ultimate sales hack to just creating authentic trust and connection with somebody, which is the crux of sales. [00:12:25] Jason: You know? And so this is high trust selling, figuring out your personal golden bridge I've used for years in my own sales and in getting on clients, and it's why people trust me so much. And so we'll help you figure out your own. And then we get into this whole new model of selling, which has multiple phases that helps people get their own clarity. [00:12:44] Jason: And what I've realized is people don't understand their problems and what they need, and until you ask them the right questions, and so if you ask them the right questions, people will basically sell themselves. You don't have to push, be pushy In sales, this is more about being empathetic, curious, asking questions, and it feels very good to be sold to in this way, if you could even call it selling. It's really coaching. And so I'm teaching you how to do that as well in this training. And then we've also added recently offer documents, sales trackers, like some really cool stuff that we use at DoorGrow to close deals and that are helping our clients increase their close rates significantly. [00:13:23] Jason: So we made a lot of improvements to our coaching program. Maybe you could talk about some of those things. [00:13:30] Sarah: Yeah. So there... man, I feel like since I stepped into DoorGrow, we changed everything, so. [00:13:37] Jason: We did. [00:13:38] Sarah: Which is great because it's like there's a lot of things that we wanted to improve, and there were a lot of things that we wanted to add. So I think one of the best things for me anyway, is I really love the Jumpstart events. So if you join the DoorGrow Mastermind as a newer client, then part of your launch package is going to be an in-person deep dive into your business with Jason and myself, you spend the whole day together with a small group of property managers. [00:14:08] Sarah: We keep it small because I cannot do a deep dive with like 10 people or 20 people. So we do a very small group. Yeah, and we really get into the weeds. We get into the nitty gritty. You walk away with a very clear action plan. You know exactly what to be doing, and you just get so much clarity and connection with other property managers that are attending that event, which is really great because after the event, those people, they stick together for a while, you know? [00:14:36] Sarah: Yeah. [00:14:36] Jason: Create some nice connections. We rolled out the jumpstart sessions because we started to notice a pattern that when clients would meet us in person or come to DoorGrow Live or conference or anything in person, they would suddenly realize psychologically we were real people. There's just something psychologically about video Zoom calls video trainings in DoorGrow Academy. [00:15:00] Jason: That's not real to our brain. And so I call it the real bubble. And we've realized if we can pop that real bubble from the beginning, clients' perception of and recognizing that we're real people, then that translates into the things that we teach are real. And the things and the results clients are getting are real. [00:15:18] Jason: And so they start to get way better results. And so we want to give people that experience from the beginning, and we've got a much better outcome from all of our clients by getting them to do these in-person things towards the beginning of them joining DoorGrow's Mastermind and they're getting way better results. [00:15:36] Jason: They recognize that this is all real stuff and so they absorb the content in all the information in a completely different way, which is really powerful, so. [00:15:45] Sarah: And I would also say in addition to that too, though, if you had worked with us prior to what, four years ago? I would say probably four is the right answer. [00:15:56] Sarah: If you worked with us anytime before that, we recognized onboarding was very hectic and it was, oh man, it's really overwhelming. Everybody was like, "oh my God, there's so much information and I don't know what to do," and then they try to take it all in and they're overwhelmed and they're focusing on the wrong things. [00:16:13] Sarah: And then they have a bunch of questions and they're trying to like, jump on the calls to get their questions answered. So we did a few things. And the best thing that we have rolled out is. We have a really solid, streamlined onboarding process now. [00:16:29] Jason: Yeah. [00:16:29] Sarah: So we take you through a very proven like we have a whole course on DoorGrow Academy on onboarding to make sure that you get into all of the tools. You have access to everything. You know how to use it. Because just because you have it, doesn't mean you know how to use it. Yeah. And then that you're connected with our team. Because there are still some times that people are like, "oh, I didn't even know I could talk to Madi. Oh, I didn't know I could talk to Giselle." Or like, "oh, I didn't realize I could do that." Yeah, you absolutely can. We have a whole team to support you. So we make sure that you're connected with the right tools. We make sure you're connected with the team. You get on like a couple of 15 minute coaching calls with our like onboarding specialist right at the beginning just to make sure, like we're going to walk you through everything. We're going to check everything, we're going to explain everything to you, make sure you're on telegram, make sure you're connected to our entire team. And then they get a brand new thing that we had rolled out in addition that we added to onboarding is our client workbooks. [00:17:26] Sarah: So one of the things that everybody says is, "oh my God, it's like...
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DGS 292: Adding Pest Control To Your Resident Benefit Package
05/01/2025
DGS 292: Adding Pest Control To Your Resident Benefit Package
How do you handle pests in the properties you manage? Do you have coverage if you or your residents need it? What if that coverage could boost your bottom line? In today’s episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Nick Drzayich from Cover Pest to talk about how property managers can add pest control coverage to their resident benefits package. You’ll Learn [02:08] Insurance-Like Coverage for Pests [08:53] Adding Pest Coverage to Your RBP [18:48] Common Problems in Property Management [24:13] Innovating while Reducing Costs and Boosting Profits
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DGS 291: How to Guarantee Failure for Your Property Management Team
04/24/2025
DGS 291: How to Guarantee Failure for Your Property Management Team
If you were managing a football team and you had someone with the skills to be a star quarterback, would you have them be a kicker? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the pitfalls of having dual roles in your property management business. You’ll Learn [01:26] How to Guarantee Your Team Will Fail [06:19] Why Dual Roles Often Do Not Work [09:17] Set Your Team Members Up for Success Quotables “It's never ideal when we have a dual role, but it is possible in certain cases.” ”Most entrepreneurs, we can do this, we can shift and balance back and forth. The problem is that then we think that's normal. And we expect other people to be able to do that.” “We make the mistake as entrepreneurs of assuming other people think the way we do.” “You probably could wear 10 different hats in your business, but you don't enjoy doing probably half of them at least.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: If you have a star quarterback... [00:00:02] Jason: yes. [00:00:03] Sarah: And that quarterback... [00:00:03] Jason: super sharp [00:00:04] Sarah: can put that ball anywhere on the field with pinpoint precision, [00:00:08] Jason: right? [00:00:09] Sarah: Are you going to take that quarterback and make him the kicker? [00:00:12] Jason: All right. We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profits, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 property management businesses, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. [00:01:02] Jason: At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:12] Jason: At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. Alright. [00:01:26] Jason: Sarah, what are we talking about today? [00:01:29] Sarah: We are going to talk about how you can almost guarantee that your team will fail. [00:01:34] Jason: Guaranteed failure. And the method to do this- yes- we call dual role... [00:01:40] Sarah: oh. [00:01:41] Jason: Team members... [00:01:41] Sarah: yes. [00:01:42] Jason: Right? So and so, what's the scenario? What do we mean by dual role? And it's pretty common. [00:01:48] Sarah: I see it quite a bit. [00:01:50] Sarah: Yeah. Do you see it a lot? [00:01:51] Jason: Yeah. I mean, do you want me to explain the idea or you want to explain what you see? [00:01:55] Jason: No, I just want to know if you see it a lot. [00:01:56] Jason: Yeah. I see a lot of people make this mistake when hiring. I don't see it work [00:02:01] Sarah: Well, no. [00:02:02] Jason: And I see people try to do it, but I see a lot of failure. [00:02:06] Jason: I've seen companies with, I talked to one the other day with 6,000 doors, which was kind of trying to do a dual role. And I've seen lots of startups try to do more than just two roles. They're trying to get somebody that's like them. They're like, I just need to find the clone. I call that the clone myth, like that's the earliest stage of hiring, the biggest mistake. [00:02:26] Jason: They're like, I just need somebody that can do 10 roles, 10 things. Someone just like me as an entrepreneur that would love to work for me, unlike an entrepreneur. Right. So how about you? You've helped a lot of our clients with hiring. So what what comes up? [00:02:41] Sarah: So usually, and let's just backtrack and say, alright, by dual role. [00:02:47] Sarah: Yeah. What we mean is, Hey, I need to hire someone and they're going to do this and that. So they're going to do, you know, sales and manage the doors. They're going to do the operations and like help me with the team and stuff and then also they're going to be a property manager or a maintenance coordinator or whatever. [00:03:08] Sarah: Yeah. So take two roles that are not the same thing and mash them together, and this is what we mean by dual role. And this situation gets aggravated significantly if those two different roles are also two different personality types. [00:03:26] Jason: Yeah. [00:03:26] Sarah: So if you have someone who's going to do operations and function as an assistant. [00:03:32] Sarah: Okay. I mean, it's not ideal, but it's possible. Yeah. It's possible. If you have someone who's going to function as like a sales appointment setter and a closer or, and a BDM. It's possible. It's never ideal when we have a dual role, but it is possible in certain cases. [00:03:52] Sarah: Okay. Where it never works out is what all entrepreneurs think is, "oh, I'm like that. I can do that." Yeah. So somebody else should be able to do that too. Well, I can shift in and out of different roles and in and out of different personality types, and I can turn it on and off like a light switch when I need to, so then that means everybody can, and it's not true. We are very unique in that. [00:04:17] Jason: Yeah. [00:04:17] Sarah: So I can also turn it on and off, like light switch when I need to get into something, I'm like, okay. Like let's go. And then when I'm done, I'm like, oh, okay. Get out of that. And I kind of shift back to my natural normal state. [00:04:30] Sarah: So if any of you guys see me ever in person. That is not my natural normal state. It's just not because it's so high energy. Especially at something like a DoorGrow Live event. Yeah. Like after DoorGrow Live, I crash for about two days, like two full days. This is true. I'm done. I am done. I sleep for like 15 hours, 16 hours straight because I've spent too much time in my opposite. [00:04:54] Sarah: Yeah. And most entrepreneurs, we can do this, we can shift and balance back and forth. The problem is that then we think that's normal. And we expect other people to be able to do that, and most people cannot do that. [00:05:07] Jason: Yeah. The mistake that a lot of us make, like you said, is we make the mistake as entrepreneurs of assuming other people think the way we do. [00:05:15] Jason: Entrepreneurs do this all the time. They assume other people are money motivated, so they try to bonus them or compensate them with money. Most people are not actually. They assume that people are adaptable and can just wear lots of different hats and be entrepreneurial like that way, but that's also not generally the case. [00:05:34] Jason: And if they are adaptable, usually they go start their own business. So they leave, and I've seen a lot of property managers steal doors from their employers, so their employer's basically just training their next replacement. [00:05:47] Jason: I love, I think when we don't put the dogs away during a podcast, and I'm being super sarcastic right now. [00:05:52] Sarah: Yeah. Well, I did say this was going to be a quick podcast, but the food... [00:05:56] Sarah: so maybe this is a sign we should wrap it up. Yeah, the food that you ordered is probably... [00:06:01] Jason: Oh yeah. I ordered some food. [00:06:02] Sarah: ...being delivered right now because it's like six o'clock on a Monday right now. Which is great. [00:06:07] Jason: They're protecting us from the food. [00:06:09] Jason: So, while we've got a chorus of dogs in the background. [00:06:12] Sarah: They're just confirming. [00:06:13] Jason: Yeah. [00:06:14] Sarah: They're like, definitely they agree with us. Don't try to hire two different people. So here's the idea. [00:06:19] Jason: Let's break this down real quick and then we'll wrap up because the dogs are going insane, but. People do not have split personalities that you want to hire. [00:06:28] Jason: They're not two different people, and so different roles have different personality types, and it's very difficult to find somebody that can jump into very different roles and personalities that would actually enjoy those. Even you as a business owner, you probably could wear 10 different hats in your business, but you don't enjoy doing probably half of them at least. [00:06:46] Jason: If not most. Yeah. And so that's the idea. So you need to figure out what would a good property manager look like? What would a good business development person look like? They can't be both. What would a good assistant look like? What would a good operations person look like? What would a good maintenance coordinator look like? [00:07:02] Jason: They can't be multiple things typically, and I think we got to end. Okay. It's getting louder. [00:07:08] Sarah: They're just dropping off the order. That's all. Now we have three dogs barking. [00:07:13] Jason: It's not stopping. [00:07:14] Sarah: So we have a big one and a medium one and a very little one. [00:07:19] Jason: Okay. [00:07:19] Sarah: But you know, that's a good example though, is so we've got three very different dogs. [00:07:25] Sarah: Like Captain is small, he's maybe 14 pounds, and Parker is pretty large. He's about 85 pounds. So would I do the same thing for the big dog that I would do for the little dog? No, I'm going to feed him differently. I'm going to, you know, get him like a different size harness, et cetera. You have to kind of think of roles in your business the same way. If you're trying to treat every role the exact same, it'll be really hard because you'll be like, I don't know, I don't understand. Like that worked with my sales guy. Why can't I just throw more money at this person and then they're going to be better? Yeah. That worked with my sales guy. [00:07:58] Sarah: Yeah, of course it did. It's not going to work in other roles. And then if you're a dual role and you're trying to constantly bounce back and forth, like, oh, I got to do the sales and I got to like do maintenance coordination and like property management work, like, oh well, which, what am I supposed to do? [00:08:14] Sarah: What do I prioritize? And then when you get busy, when you get overwhelmed and you get stressed, something is going to not get done. And it's really hard sometimes to choose, well, what am I going to sacrifice? Because both things are important, and I can tell you that 99% of the time, the thing that will be sacrificed is the thing that they just don't like doing. [00:08:35] Sarah: Yeah. So if they don't like doing the property management piece. Your delivery is going to tank. And then if they don't like doing the sales piece, they're going to focus on the delivery and your sales. You're going to have none. And you'll be wondering, well, I don't understand. Like I hired you to do both and this is why this is that pitfall. [00:08:53] Sarah: So if you want to guarantee that your team is going to fail, that your business is going to be stressed, and that your team, you are, it's almost a guaranteed like turnover of your team as well because they're not going to, they're not going to stay when they're not happy. And part of them is doing a role that they hate. [00:09:11] Sarah: The other part of them might be doing something that they really love, but part of them, for part of their day, they're doing something that they hate. [00:09:17] Jason: Yeah. So to drive this home, it's really important that you don't put people in a position that they're going to fail. And here's a big major tip. If you have somebody that's good at selling, and you're having them waste time doing anything else, that is a really stupid way to like waste a resource. Like if somebody can make you money and bring fresh money into the business and you have them doing stupid stuff like posting notices or talking to your existing clients. You are wasting a massively valuable resource. [00:09:54] Jason: They would make you so much money they could pay for multiple other team members if you just let them only focus on business development. And so if they can sell, get them just doing that. If they're good at that. If they are good at property management, don't have them waste time dinking around trying to sell. [00:10:11] Jason: Go get somebody that can sell, that can grow your business. Right. And there's other roles, but we're using these two as an example. But yeah, dual roles work. I doesn't work. [00:10:19] Jason: I think [00:10:19] Sarah: that's one of the most common ones. I see. [00:10:21] Jason: Yeah. It is pretty common. [00:10:22] Sarah: It's either sales and operations, which like never works. [00:10:25] Sarah: Yeah. Or sales and like property management. Yeah. Those are like the two most common that I see. And the way that I explain it to people is. If you understand sports... [00:10:37] Sarah: we're using sports analogy? [00:10:38] Sarah: We are. We're going to use a sports analogy. Okay. So on a football team... [00:10:43] Jason: yes. [00:10:43] Sarah: If you have a star quarterback... [00:10:46] Jason: yes. [00:10:46] Sarah: And that quarterback... [00:10:47] Jason: super sharp [00:10:47] Sarah: can put that ball anywhere on the field with pinpoint precision, [00:10:52] Jason: right? [00:10:52] Sarah: Are you going to take that quarterback and make him the kicker? [00:10:56] Jason: No, that'd be stupid. [00:10:57] Sarah: Or the blocker... [00:10:58] Jason: that would be really bad. [00:10:59] Sarah: Or a defensive lineman? No way. How about the water boy? [00:11:02] Sarah: No. [00:11:03] Sarah: Why would you ever do any of that? Right? [00:11:04] Sarah: So people who are like, they're like, oh my God, no. So are you going to see the star quarterback doing anything other than his job? [00:11:13] Jason: No. [00:11:14] Sarah: Never. Never. No. [00:11:15] Jason: That's actually a really great analogy. [00:11:18] Sarah: I know. I'm really smart sometimes. So there's... [00:11:21] Jason: you're really smart all the time, and you know this. [00:11:24] Sarah: I do know this. [00:11:24] Jason: Don't pretend you're humble. [00:11:26] Sarah: Well, I'm the most humble of all of the Zodiac signs. [00:11:30] Jason: Yeah me too. I'm super humble too. [00:11:31] Sarah: No, I'm the most humble though. [00:11:33] Jason: You're way more humble than me. [00:11:34] Sarah: I'm more humble than all of... [00:11:36] Jason: you're the most humble ever. [00:11:37] Sarah: As Scorpios, we all are. Okay, guys. Yeah. So anyway, if you're going to have your quarterback doing anything other than that, like that would just be silly. It would just be stupid. So if you were watching TV and that's what your team did while you were watching... [00:11:52] Jason: yeah. [00:11:52] Sarah: And it's like a playoff game. And that's what happens is you're like, why is my quarterback, what are you...? You wouldn't even believe your eyes. But then that's what you are doing in your business is you are taking your sales person, your star sales person, and you're making them do other stuff. So it works the same way. It's divide and conquer. That's like football teams do this. That's why it's not just a free for all when you get on the field, it's like, all right guys, just figure out how to, no. Yeah, they're specialists. They divide and conquer. Your business is the same thing. [00:12:22] Jason: That's a great analogy. Cool. So it's super obvious in sports, like you've got some guy, man, he could throw it anywhere on the field. Look how accurate he is. He's not super big, but man, he can really throw it. Maybe we should have this guy just be a kicker. Yeah. That would like, that'd be crazy, but somebody's really amazing kicking the ball. [00:12:39] Sarah: Some of you guys would lose your freaking minds if you saw that happen in a game. [00:12:42] Jason: Right? But then you're doing it in your business! [00:12:44] Jason: You do it in your own business. You're doing it in your business. They're like, well, they could do both and maybe it'll save money and they can kind of do two things, and you wonder why the business is struggling or not growing. So we need to make strategic hires. We need to be make careful hires. [00:12:56] Jason: We need to get the right personality fit, skill fit, culture fit. We talked about the three fits on previous episodes, but you also want to make sure that personality fit, they are a really great personality fit for that particular role, and you're not trying to hire them for two. All right. Anything else we need to say about this? [00:13:11] Sarah: I don't think so. We're going to go eat. [00:13:13] Jason: Cool. So if you have felt stuck or stagnant and want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Also, join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. [00:13:34] Jason: We'd really appreciate it. Until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.
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DGS 290: AI in Property Management
04/18/2025
DGS 290: AI in Property Management
As the property management industry continues to evolve, it’s important to stay up to date on the latest innovations in technology. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with David Normand from Vendoroo to talk about AI’s role in the future of property management. You’ll Learn [01:29] The AI Revolution [08:47] The Importance of Empathy and Human Touch [22:21] Decreasing the Cost of Maintenance Coordination [32:29] New Features Coming to Vendoroo Quotables “As any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best.” “If you're not reading articles and studying up on this, I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly.” “Empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better.” “Empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] David: If you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:00:14] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware. [00:00:18] Jason: All right. Welcome property management entrepreneurs to the DoorGrow Show or the Property Management Growth podcast. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive group coaching mastermind for residential property management entrepreneurs. We've been doing this for over a decade and a half. [00:00:39] Jason: I've brought innovative strategies and optimizations to the property management industry. I have spoken to thousands of property management companies. I've coached over 600 businesses. I've rebranded over 300 companies like Bar Rescue for property managers, cleaning up their businesses, and we would love to help coach you and support you and your growth. [00:01:01] Jason: We have innovative strategies for building out growth engines, for building out your operational challenges, for helping you figure out how to get to the next level in your business and one of the cool tools that I'm excited to showcase today with my guest here, David Norman, is Vendoroo. We've had you on the show before. [00:01:19] Jason: Welcome back David. [00:01:20] David: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It felt like years ago, it was only about, I think eight months ago since we did this, so much has changed over the time, so it's great to be back. Yeah, it's great to be back. [00:01:29] Jason: Good to have you. I know you're in the middle of this AI revolution, which AI is just innovating and changing so rapidly. It probably does feel like years ago, so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been crazy. You guys have made a lot of changes too, so, you even changed your brand name from the last time we had you on the show. Yeah. Which was I think Tulu. Yeah. Right. And so, yeah. So why don't you get us caught up on what's going on 'cause, you know, there's been a lot. [00:01:55] David: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you first of all for having me here today, Jason, and from the entire Vendoroo group of us, which, you know, the team has grown 10 x over the past eight months, which has been awesome. And I just also wanted to start in thanking everybody from what we call our client partners who have jumped in into this great unknown that is AI and is going to be like, how is this going to work in our industry? And so that's really what we've been focusing on the past eight months. You know, it's been a unbelievable journey of both failures, successes learnings and insights. And ultimately we're getting excited here at the NARPM broker owner which is in Denver to unveil Vendoroo. Like this is the coming out party. And so we're super excited if you're going to be there. We have a massive booth that we have set up that we have the ai alliance with other people that are working in the AI space, and I really hope that you guys come over and check it out. I promise this. [00:02:53] David: You'll never see a booth or a display like we have set up. At the NARPM broker owner. So. [00:02:58] Jason: Now I want to go attend it. Yeah. Just so I can see your booth. [00:03:01] David: So, let me put it this way. You may see the robot from the Jetsons walking around the booth walking around the NARPM broker owner, so, okay. [00:03:07] David: Yeah. Rosie? Yeah. You may see something like that. So she'll be vacuuming with her apron? Yeah. She'll be doing a little social engagement. It'll be cool. So, okay. Okay. [00:03:17] Jason: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, so catch us up on what, like, let's get into the kind of the background and the overview for people that have never heard about Vendoroo and what you guys do and how you got into this. [00:03:29] Jason: Yeah. Give people kind of the backstory. Yeah. [00:03:31] David: Yeah. Thank you for that. So really the backstory is that, you know, we know of this AI economy that's coming, right? And there was a few of us, you know, I've been in this industry for 18 years. You know, I've managed you know, portfolios of 40,000 doors. [00:03:47] David: I've managed them for governments. You know, I started off with our own property management. Much like you guys. We started off with 80 doors. We grew to 550 doors in four years. So it was exciting to know that technology that was coming that promised duplication because, you know, as any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best, right. [00:04:05] David: And so what we decided to do is to come together and say, Hey, if AI's coming, there's two things that we need to figure out. Number one is how is this going to help us show value in this new industry to this new generation of property owners that is here, that is coming, that has been raised in the technology world too, right? [00:04:25] David: And two, can it actually duplicate our efforts? Can it actually be an employee for us? Right? And I don't care what people are promising about ai, you don't know until you get into what we call like, you know, get into the weeds, you got to get into the trenches. And so that's what we did, right? We went out and we were the guys that grabbed the torch and we said, we are going to take all the risk. [00:04:46] David: We are going to jump into the mix. We're going to ask people to jump onto the bandwagon with us and we're going to figure this out. And oh my gosh, what an unbelievable eight months it has been in learning and insights. And I can't wait to get into all the things that we've learned about the property management industry. [00:05:01] David: But that's really what we've been focusing on here the past eight months, right? So we started off with well hey, can the AI assist the va? Can it turn them into a super va? Is that what it's going to be? And, you know, some people were like, yay. And some people were like nay, you know? And so, and you know, because that human failure still was there, right? [00:05:21] David: And you know, what happens if they left? There was that inconsistency. And then it was like, all right, well what can the AI own? Right? What can it do? What can it perfect? And you know, can AI actually be the last employee that I ever hire? Right. That's really, that's a really cool thing to do. [00:05:39] David: But the property managing community had some really specific demands that they said that if this is going to be the last employee that I've had, it has to do this. And that's what I'm excited about our new technology 'cause it's doing those things. You know? [00:05:52] Jason: Yeah. And now you guys have made some big moves. I know, like I've, I have clients that we've sent over to you and they've shared some incredible stories. Like one client, I think he had 154 units or something like under management, and he said in the first day you're of turning on Vendoroo, like it closed out like 80 something work orders. [00:06:12] Jason: Yeah, like, it was crazy. Another client, they had a little more doors. They said it was like 50 something work orders were closed out in the first day of turning it on. And so, I mean, you're creating some dramatic stuff. Like this is a very different thing than what people are used to in maintenance. [00:06:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. And really what the exciting part about this, Jason, is that maintenance is actually really easy. And I know people laugh when I say that it's managing communications that is extremely difficult. Okay. Okay. Right, because you have, you know what AI told us about our industry over the last eight months is when we dove in with it and it took a step back and it said, whoa, you guys don't have a data problem here. [00:06:51] David: You guys have a emotion problem here. There's very specific categories of emotion that are in this space, right? Like, how do you build a technology that senses something? And I know this relates with property managers, 'cause I know this for myself. A property manager can walk into their office, sit down at their desk, and their spidey senses go off and they know something's wrong. [00:07:15] David: There's no screen that's telling them anything. There's no spreadsheet. They know something's off. Right. And so the AI is like, well, the statuses really don't matter that much to me based upon the feedback that I'm seeing from the property managers. Because the status and the communication all seem to be in order, but there's a disruption somewhere. [00:07:35] David: So I need to know about people's emotions. I need to understand about is the resident happy? Does the owner feel supported? Is the vendor being directed? And does the property manager believe that I can own the outcome for this? And it was really cool to start seeing its learning and understanding and picking up on these cues where, you know, people say that this is a data-driven industry. [00:07:55] David: It's really in an emotion driven industry. [00:07:57] Jason: Oh yeah. It's a relationship and emotion industry for sure. Yeah. Yeah, big time. [00:08:01] David: And it's really cool to see, and it's really started happening over this past last 60 days, the amount of residents, I was actually just looking at one before I jumped on here, that are like thanking the system, right? [00:08:15] David: Imagine that, like think of all of us that actually worked with the chat bot at like Verizon. I've never thanked that chatbot at Verizon for being their customer service. Right. [00:08:25] Jason: And how do I get a representative? Representative. Representative! [00:08:28] David: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Versus you seeing people, you know, seeing individuals saying to the, you know, saying to the Vendoroo maintenance coordinator, Hey, I really appreciate feeling supported and how fast you acted because you know, there's empathy that's inside of its law and learning. So I don't want to get too much into the details on there. But yeah, these are some of the exciting things that we're working on. [00:08:47] Jason: I mean, empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better. [00:08:52] David: Yeah, [00:08:52] Jason: I mean they, they've done studies. Teams, even in working in warehouses, are more productive if the team has a higher level of empathy. Yeah. And doctors perform better. Yeah. If there's a higher level of empathy, there's less malpractice suits, like empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient. [00:09:10] Jason: I coach clients to add that in during sales. Yeah. 'cause their close rate goes up dramatically. Yeah. Right. So yeah. So leveraging and like getting the AI to actually be empathetic in its communication. Yeah. When that's probably not a natural skill for a lot of maintenance coordinators to be empathetic. [00:09:26] David: It's not, it's not a natural skill for a lot of people in the maintenance industry. Right? Yes. Especially when you talk about burnout. People begin developing views of the rental community, right? Like, oh my gosh, they're calling again, and that empathy meter goes lower and lower and lower. [00:09:41] David: Yeah. As people have been in the industry longer. But isn't it great that you have an employee now that knows that, yeah, it's my duty, rain or shine, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 a year to always operate at the highest level of empathy? I never have a bad day. I never take a day off. [00:09:57] David: I'm never upset. I'm never short with somebody on the phone, never tired, never like, oh my gosh, Susan is calling me again. I'm going to let the phone just ring because I'm annoyed of talking to her. And it just is constantly hitting that same level of standard. And this is what's exciting to me, is that there are people that that have played around with this and have been a part of what I call the pain phase, right? [00:10:20] David: The pain phase is that understanding the way that agentic AI works, right? It's input in output. Input, output, right? The more that you're putting into it, the better the results are that you're going to get out of it, okay? Right. It's just like training an employee. So over the last eight months, what we've seen is that the community has trained this to be the level of a person that has now been working in the industry for five years. [00:10:46] David: In eight months. It's got five years of learning in eight months. Okay. Wow. In the next six to 12 months, we're probably looking at somebody that has 10 to 15 years understanding in the next six to 12 months and understand the level of type of tasks that it can do, especially getting into estimates and getting some other work. [00:11:04] David: And again, just you know, having empathy in my own life towards the people that jumped in that are like, what is this all about? Like, how does AI fail? Like, you know, there's still people that are involved and it was like this big like momentous train of like, you know, all these people were jumping on and giving ideas and people are in the loop and now it's weeding everything out and the AI stepping in and saying. [00:11:27] David: Hey, I appreciate all the input that you've given me. Thank you for all your effort. I'm now ready to step up to the plate and to own the outcome. Right. And that's what we're seeing at the NARPM show that's coming out. There's five AI tools. There's a master agent, five AI tools. And you know, I'll give you a couple of pieces here that, you know, we had feedback from our property managers like number one across the board. [00:11:50] David: A property manager said, if I'm hiring AI as my last employee, that has to work in my system. Yeah. Okay. Right. Like I don't want another, I don't want another technology. Yeah. [00:11:59] Jason: I don't want a new system I got to get every vendor to use or a new system I got to get my team to use or figure out. We don't need another tool to make our lives more difficult. [00:12:08] Jason: No. They've got to use our stuff. [00:12:09] David: They got to use, we have our existing stack. Yeah. So now the AI is fully integrated into all the most common PMS systems. You know, you have a cool chrome extension that you can download and there's a little yellow kangaroo right right there. And it's actually reading the work order that you're working on, and you can literally just ask it a question now and just being like, Hey, did anybody express frustration or concern on this work order? [00:12:32] David: Right? Because that's the emotion behind the status that you need to know. And it's like, yeah, two days ago Sally said that, you know, she was actually really frustrated about the multiple reschedules by this vendor. And it's like, great, that's a person I should be reaching out to and that's what I should be knowing that a status is never going to tell you. [00:12:47] David: Right? Yeah. It's in your slack, right? So if I have, if I'm on my phone, I'm talking to my employee and I'm laying in bed and I have a panic attack as a property manager, and I'm like, oh my gosh, did we take care of John's refrigerator and the office is closed? I can't get ahold of my employee. Yeah, you can. [00:13:03] David: Your employee works 24 7 now. Hey, can you give me an update on the refrigerator replacement at John's place? Yeah, it was scheduled this day. I contacted John. Everything's good to go. You know, go to sleep. You know, like, like that's the power. Full audit. Full syncing. So it's in your platform. That's really cool. [00:13:21] David: The other thing, it's got to be branded, right? This is a thing that we really learned about, like how important branding is to the community of property managers, right? Yeah. So the communications that go out have to be from your area code that's done. The emails that go out have to have like, you know, your company name and your logo on it. [00:13:39] David: The AI is doing that as well too. So that's being sent out, which is really cool. So people are feeling like, you know, that loyalty to brand is super important. And also do you know now that the AI can ask the residents to give a Google Review and we can link to the Google reviews and give you instant Google reviews to your page through the ai, which is cool, like how it's, it will know that if the success of a Google review is high on the way that the work order was done, that it's probably best to ask this person and it will send them a little thing. [00:14:11] David: Hey, can we get a feedback from you? And we link up to your Google review. And it posts that Google review to generate those 'cause we know those are super, super valuable to property managers. So that's actually going out today. That's kind of a little teaser there. That's the emails out now. [00:14:23] Jason: Nice. We'll have to get you to also connect it to our gather kudos links for clients 'cause then people can pick which review sites. So it diversifies the review profile. [00:14:32] David: Love it. Love that. I'm going to hook you up with our guy Dotan. He's running that. He's one of our head of product. He's, actually out of Israel. [00:14:39] David: He's a amazing guy. I'd love to get you connected with him. Yeah. Cool. Let's do it. Cool. And then the biggest one too is like, I need a single point of contact. Right. And we knew that before there was a lot of people were still involved. There was a lot of oversight that was going on there, having that confusion and single point of contact. [00:14:56] David: Now it's in your phone, it's in your Slack, it's in your phone extension. It doesn't matter what's going on. You have one point of contact. It's your employee. You ask the question, get the answer, Jason, you can even ask for a change. You can even say, Hey, I want to change a vendor on a job and you'll see that the vendor gets changed for you in the system. [00:15:17] David: You can even say to your ai, and this is the big one: hey how do you triage this work order? And I want you to do this, or I want you to do that. And you just do it right through Slack or right through your PM chat and it makes the change for you. And now you have custom triage and all property managers have the ability to train their own AI for their company. [00:15:36] David: Think how cool that is. A person with 75 doors now, and the product that's being released has their own AI agent customized for their company, right? Yeah. Like, that's what happened over the last eight months, so you can see my excitement. There's been a lot of hard work in this. [00:15:54] David: Yeah, that's amazing. But this has been all the effort and a huge thank you out to everybody who's tried us, you know, even said that this wasn't for them at that point in time because those learnings went into what's going to make this product the best product in the property management space and...
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DGS 289: Close More Deals & Build Trust: Sales Secrets for Property Managers
04/03/2025
DGS 289: Close More Deals & Build Trust: Sales Secrets for Property Managers
As property managers, you know how important communication is. Building solid relationships and creating trust is crucial in the industry, especially when trying to bring on new clients and doors. In this episode of the Property Management Growth Show, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Sam Wakefield from Close it Now to talk about how you can level up your sales game to close more deals at a higher price point. You’ll Learn [00:54] Vendor and Property Manager Relationships [09:43] Why You Attract Cheapo Clients [15:33] Building Trust in Sales [21:14] Shifting Perception: It’s Not A, It’s B [27:43] Learning to Improve Your Sales at DoorGrow Live 2025 Quotables “Truly all that sells is just communication.” “The second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are.” “If we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner.” “As business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable.” Resources Transcript [00:00:00] Sam: A lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:00:07] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and it's really the old adage, you get what you pay for. [00:00:14] Jason: All right. I am trying a new platform today. This is Jason Hull and I am a property management growth expert. If you're not familiar with me, I help grow and scale property management companies and I am really good at that. And so our company's DoorGrow and we are the world leaders of growing and scaling property management businesses. [00:00:35] Jason: I've helped thousands of property managers do that. And today my guest is Sam Wakefield. Hanging out here with Sam. Sam, welcome to the show. [00:00:44] Sam: Thanks for having me on, man. I'm glad to be here. [00:00:46] Jason: Hey, good to have you. So, I'm really excited to get into this. We had some really nice dialogue back and forth. You coach. [00:00:54] Jason: Well, I'll let you tell. What group, category of people do you coach and you help with them with sales and closing more deals, so. [00:01:01] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we do sales training and basically sales systems, whole operation systems within companies, but mostly sales focused for home services. So everything from HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and then even outside of that. Garage doors, or you name it. If someone improves a home, then we help the communication side of all of those companies. [00:01:27] Jason: Got it. So in my industry, property management people would call those vendors. That's usually what they call them. They're like, "these are the vendors." And so we thought it was fun. I went on your podcast, we had this really fun dialogue. [00:01:39] Jason: I highly recommend you go check out Sam's episode with Jason Hull and go check that out. We were going back and forth because we had done a survey each to our audiences, like what's frustrating about HVAC companies and what's frustrating about property management companies. Right. And just seeing the disconnect that existed there. [00:01:56] Jason: Which was interesting. So, before we get into this, I want to read a quick message from our sponsor. This episode's sponsored by KRS SmartBooks. Do you have properties manage, and zero time for bookkeeping headaches? KRS SmartBooks is your secret weapon. They specialize in finances for busy property managers like you, with 15 plus years of real estate knowhow and skills in AppFolio, Yardi, and more imagine monthly reports magically appearing, and zero accounting stress. Sound good? Head to krsbooks.com to book your free discovery call, integrity, quality, and a dash of bookkeeping brilliance, that's KRS SmartBooks, and that's K as in Kansas, R as in Rogers, S as in Sam. Sam. All right, so cool. Now let's get into this. [00:02:45] Jason: So we're going to talk about closing deals, but why don't you give us my audience a little bit of background. How did you get into sales and then starting your own company, helping people with sales, and like, how'd you how did Close it Now come to be? [00:03:00] Sam: Yeah, for sure. Thanks for that question. So, I've spent almost 20 years now in home services. [00:03:05] Sam: Most of my time has been in HVAC. I've done solar. I've done a lot of different trades over the years and, you know, so I launched the Close it Now company in 2019 because I really just recognized a place where there was not a lot of modern training because truly all that sells is just communication. [00:03:26] Sam: You know, it's how do we communicate clearer and in a way where we can educate so somebody can understand, one, what we're talking about, and two, why they should care and how it's going to make a difference in their life. So at the essence of that, so I was looking for some more modern training for my people at my company that I had at the time, and I didn't find anything out there. [00:03:48] Sam: So I just said, well, now we have a space for, you know, I have communication skills. I can train people. So that's when I launched the company in 2019 and so much of my career built up to that point of, and specifically how it affects here and why I'm here today. You know, I've worked with so many property management companies and individuals across 20 years of doing this. Yeah. So I've definitely learned a lot of best practices and a lot of the things not to do, you know? Got it. I all own my mistakes as well as, you know, coming across maybe property managers that I wouldn't work with again. Right. Yeah. So from all of that experience, you know, I started the training company, so I work with those home service companies to communicate better. [00:04:33] Sam: You know, a lot of it is, you know, of course, working directly with homeowners. But also there's a huge portion of all of those companies that, you know, rely on it and need property management companies to, you know, really help them stay in business and in turn they can turn around and, you know, help those property management companies to efficiently take care of properties. [00:04:58] Sam: But there's always seems to be this kind of struggle of, you know, that back and forth. So that's obviously why we're here today is a big part of that. But that's some of my history. I've been doing it 20 years. I started Close it Now six years or in, coming up on... yeah, April this year, next month is six years anniversary. [00:05:16] Sam: Nice. Of the company. And it's been a fun ride and we've definitely helped lots and lots of organizations to you know, to grow in a way. [00:05:24] Jason: You're helping them close it now. All right. Yeah. Got it. All right. So you're just, you're helping these vendors close more deals, right? [00:05:31] Jason: So, property managers, I think would love to hear. You're on the other side of this relationship between property managers and vendors. What have you seen and what's the general feedback that you're noticing of the property management industry? What's kind of the vendor's perspective? [00:05:46] Jason: Because I know property managers, they get frustrated with vendors, right? They're like, "oh, the vendors like say you need something when you don't and like they don't like, it's difficult to reach them or this or whatever." Right. What are some of the complaints and gripes about property management companies? [00:06:03] Sam: Yeah. Complaints and gripes about property management companies. One of the big ones is, a lot of it is kind of the same thing is lack of communication. Okay. That's always one of the biggest complaints that comes up is, you know, we will get, you know, say someone, a property manager will call in for us to go evaluate a property. [00:06:21] Sam: We'll take an air conditioning issue or something like that, so we'll show up and then we're trying to call ahead. There's no clear information was given on who to call ahead to. Then we show up to the appointment, maybe the tenant's there, maybe not. A lot of times they're not there. [00:06:36] Sam: Okay. Then we can get ahold of the property manager to even get in the place. So now we're like dancing around in the circle of, okay, who do we contact? You get frustrated, move on to the next call, then the property manager calls and "Well, why'd you leave? Somebody was there." [00:06:50] Sam: Well, nobody was there. And so all of this just seems to happen very often. [00:06:55] Sam: Too often. Yeah. So it creates a stereotype. When the stereotype is created, that means of course there's a reason for it. Yeah. And so this is one of the big ones is the lack of communication. And I know that I've heard that the other direction as well. But so that's one of the things I hear the most. [00:07:11] Jason: Yeah. Got it. Yeah, so I'm sure when a vendor finds a property manager that does communicate effectively that there's clarity in that communication happening, and they've got good systems in place. The tenant's there, the tenant understands what's going on. Everybody's informed. Then those can be really great relationships to have. [00:07:34] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. Those are, you know, the last the last organization I was at, I was with them, I was a sales manager and trainer for six years there. And I went through about 18 different property management companies to find two to three that were worth working with. Wow. And that was, you know, just sadly. We were always open to when a property management company came to us and we're like, "Hey, we, you know, we need you to do some work. We're looking for a new vendor." We're like, "sure. Absolutely. We'll try you out as well as you're trying us out." Right. But sadly, you know, the two or three that we did find great relationships with. They were fantastic relationships because yeah, we, you know, part of my ethics is our team was like, we will show up on time no matter what. [00:08:19] Sam: Right? We always do what we say. We will never, you know, recommend something that's not verifiable from our, you know, from our testing. We're not going to just guess at this because we're not guessing with anybody's, you know? Yeah. Investment. And at the same time when we, you know, say we're going to do the work, we do the work, and we show up to do the work, we say we're going to. [00:08:43] Sam: So that was my ethics statement I always led with. And then basically I would ask the property management company, can I expect the same thing from you guys? Right? And sure enough, the second that we met in the middle and said, yes, this is how we want to do business, those relationships were always the very best ones because sure, were we a few more dollars than the other contractor down the street? Sure. Yes. But we showed up when we said we were going to and we did the right work right the first time. And so, right. That's a big part of that disconnect, I think, is it seems like so many you know, a lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:09:22] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and. It's really the old adage, you get what you pay for. [00:09:30] Jason: You know, property managers have the same sort of problem is that a lot of people that are looking for a property manager are just looking for the cheapest price. [00:09:38] Jason: And they hate that. They're like, "we're not all the same." Right. So I, yeah, I think it's really important. I think this is dictated by the morals, the ethics, and the values of the business owner. It's always a top down thing. And so if the business owner is a cheapo, they attract cheapo clients and they deal with vendors through this cheapo lens, and this is where there's going to be a lot of mess and a lot of communication issues, and a lot of times the business owner, and this goes for any business and any industry, has a blind spot to the fact that they're cheap. But they're, you know, you're a cheapo if you're the person that's always looking for the stupid coupon code every time you buy everything online, you're always like hunting for that like. I don't have time to do that. [00:10:21] Jason: Like that's a massive waste of my time to go find, save 10% on some stupid a hundred dollars thing online, right? Right. Like, Ooh, I'm searching around. Right. Oh, I saved $10 even though I could have made a hundred thousand dollars. Like if I just like built something awesome, right? So I think there's a mindset issue is that these property managers or vendor business owners are not valuing their time enough. [00:10:45] Jason: If you value your time, you value other people's time. You then show up on time. You then like try to make sure, like your schedule is tight, you want to make sure your schedule is full. Like you, because you value your time and you feel that it's important. And if you really value your time enough as a person, you get things like assistance. [00:11:03] Jason: You get team members, like you get support because your time is so valuable that you want to go buy other people's time because it's less valuable than your time. Right, and this is how we scale our businesses over time is we are buying other people's time that are like they're willing to trade and give up their life chunks of their life for money. [00:11:24] Jason: And as business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable. And so I think there's a mindset thing that we have to not be cheap. We have to operate with integrity, and then our team members need to have these values instilled in them, and if we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner. [00:11:45] Jason: And if we don't build the right culture, we then don't have longevity in our business. We don't get return business, we don't get return clients. We don't get to have that really good vendor to continue to work with. We don't get to have that property owner continue to want to work with us, right? [00:12:00] Jason: Because we have showcased that we are not on top of things, or that we don't have the right values or that we don't have healthy mindset. And so I feel like. At the foundation of everything. It always comes back to mindset. A lot of times [00:12:13] Sam: I a hundred percent agree with that. It, you know, it's funny that you're kind of started this conversation going down this path. [00:12:19] Sam: This is something that's been a very basically a soapbox for me, a big hot button. Yeah. You know, when I'm coaching... [00:12:26] Sam: jump on that soapbox, Sam. Let's go. [00:12:27] Sam: Yeah. When I'm coaching and training people lately, especially at this last week especially... yeah. You know, I'm training people with sales and that type of focus, and they, of course, people always come to me, "Hey, how do I overcome these sales objections?" [00:12:43] Sam: You know, somebody says, "I want to get three bids, or somebody says, your price is too high, I want to shop around, or I need to think about it." Yeah. And instead of just going straight to, "well, here's the word track and how to handle these objections." Yeah. We always start with: anytime that you find a trend in your life, [00:13:00] Sam: so if you're getting the same consistent objection, say somebody's getting every single time they get to the end of their appointment and the homeowner or whoever they're talking to says, "I want to think about it." It's like the second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are. [00:13:17] Sam: I would be willing to bet that person does the same thing when they shop. So then no wonder you're getting every single one of your clients is telling you, "I want to think about it." Or if when you shop, do you ask for say, "oh, I've got to get some three bids on this thing. I got to look around." Yeah. Well, no wonder the people you're selling to always have to get three bids because we attract who we are. Yeah. And it starts right here in the mind. And it's incredible how that works. [00:13:43] Jason: Yeah. because if we're anxious, if we have that energetic sort of anxiety of that, like things are, it's expensive, and we go into that trying to sell it to somebody. Then they can feel that and we present it differently. And so we're like, "here's the price." And like, yeah, and it's worth it. And they can just, there's so many little subtle clues they pick up on that, Hey, this seems a little high. And because sometimes like if you're presenting to somebody and they're not what I call a cheapo, there's three types of buyers, cheapos, normals, and premiums I call them. [00:14:16] Jason: And normals are like, you typically like 60%. They're like the majority, 61%. The smallest group are usually the premium buyers, supposedly. But the idea is this: if you're a premium buyer and I present a price and I'm not even going to like flinch telling you about it, I'm like, "yeah, we've got this and this is what it costs and this," and they're going to go, "oh, this person feels really confident." [00:14:36] Jason: And it's just energetically how we present it. There's no like, "Hey, I'm trying to prep you for this price, you know, reveal because it's going to hurt a little bit." Right. Or if they just have the confidence and they know they're expensive, they might even just say, "Hey, we're one of the most expensive, but we're also one of the best. Let me tell you about your options." Right? So maybe they start with a pre-frame like that, but either way, they have this confidence that they know they have value and that it's worth it, and then they present it like that, then people would go, oh, okay, but if you have that anxiety deep down related to price and you know, you're this person if you're always looking for the coupon code or the discount code or you're trying to find the cheapest way to do something, then you've got a bit of that going on. [00:15:21] Jason: Because that's your identity. And so I've noticed this. Like in order to get people to be better salespeople, I can't just give them tactics. I have to give them identity. And so, and this is why my greatest sales hack, I call the Golden Bridge Formula. It's like it's the most authentic way to sell, which is your personal why connected to the business why connected to the prospect's why. Because we always trust motives. And the default assumption in sales, if I don't know your motive and you're trying to sell to me, is you want my money. [00:15:54] Sam: Right. [00:15:54] Jason: And if I think that's your only motive is you want my money and you're willing to do whatever it takes to get that, then you're probably maybe even willing to be unethical in order to get that might be the assumption. [00:16:05] Jason: Right? So that's kind of the default assumption in sales. And so to correct that, if I tell somebody, "Hey. I'm Jason Hull. My personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. And so what that means is I love sharing what works and learning what works and teaching to others. I would do that for free, for fun, and so I created DoorGrow and our why at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:16:27] Jason: And so if our whole belief system is around helping people transform their businesses. So that allows me to basically feed my addiction to learning, coaches, masterminds, books, whatever, and turn around and be able to share what's working...
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