Paleo Protestant Pudcast

Protestants outside the orbits of evangelicals and mainliners talking about church stuff.

It's Like Confessional Protestantism Doesn't Exist 04/09/2025

It's Like Confessional Protestantism Doesn't Exist The Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican heirs of the Protestant Reformation continue to make news by not attracting attention from observers of American Protestantism. The co-hosts, (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian), talk about two recent articles about traditional Protestantism that either imply or claim that such Christianity is down on the mat for the count (think boxing). One is Brad East's "" and the other is Casey Spinks "?" The conversation may not be as hopeful as some listeners want. But along with the on non-denominational Protestantism, this one reveals further challenges that confessional Protestant communions face. Follow some of us -- Miles Smith @ivmiles and D. G. Hart (for now) @reallyoldlife. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/36069580

Confessional Protestantism and Denominationalism 02/19/2025

Confessional Protestantism and Denominationalism This time co-hosts (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian) talk about whether non-denominational Christianity is the future of American Protestantism and what stake confessional Protestants have in denominational structures. The basis for discussion is sociologist Ryan Burge's whose numbers indicate the remarkable increase of non-denominational Protestantism. Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, and Congregationalists may sound like the ecclesiastical equivalent of Ford, Lincoln, Chevrolet, and Buick, but institutions matter to Christian faith and practice as much as they do to the manufacturing and sale of automobiles. Follow the Anglican co-host @ivmiles and the Presbyterian co-host @oldlife. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/35356760

Teach Us To Number Our Holidays (so they don't turn into seasons) 01/09/2025

Teach Us To Number Our Holidays (so they don't turn into seasons) The Pudcast returns with co-hosts (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian) in the after glow of a very long holiday season -- that seems to get longer the older the observer becomes. The recording starts with question of whether the five to six weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years -- when everyone seems to return to pandemic levels of output in the workplace -- is too long. Included is attention to the particular aspects of holiday observance among Lutherans and Anglicans (with Lutherans getting lots of credit for using the phrase, "The Divine Service" most often). Material that stimulated the discussion was Ross Douthat's that secular liberalism has run out of steam and Eli Lake's on the Jewish-Americans who wrote so many of the secular Christmas songs. Listeners who have not seen Whit Stillman's movie, "" should do so asap even if it is no longer Christmas or Advent or Debutante Ball season. Owing to the recent death of former POTUS, Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump's election victory, the co-hosts also speculated about the effects of past and future presidents on the in the United States and elsewhere. Bonus content: is an introduction to Washington Irving's Old Christmas, a story that shaped American customs surrounding the holiday. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/34793105

Merry, Merry Lutheran Seminary 12/16/2024

Merry, Merry Lutheran Seminary When most confessional Protestants are preparing for end-of-calendar-year holidays, they are likely thinking about Lutheran seminary education. For that reason, this discussion with co-hosts (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian) will be a treat. The basis for discussion is an article that Korey Maas wrote for the Acton Institute publication, Religion and Liberty, on the late 1960s controversy at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis which led to the exodus of confessionally liberal Lutherans not only from the seminary but also from the LCMS altogether. Among the points of controversy was the doctrine of inerrancy, which gave the conflict a certain resemblance to the Presbyterian controversy of the 1920s. Spoiler alert: the co-hosts never mention beer and only bring up Presbyterianism at the end of the episode. So you have to listen to the end (at least it's not behind a paywall). The article by Korey Maas who is still not on Twitter (formerly called Twitter) is . The LCMS statement on the authority and infallibility of the Bible is . Miles Smith is still @ivmiles and D. G. Hart is still @oldlife. As is always the case, the pudcast would not exist without the incomparable assistance of @presbycast. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/34476665

A Tragic Election? 11/22/2024

A Tragic Election? The vibe for this recording was solemn even if the co-hosts (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian) were also excited for the upcoming marriage of our only confessional Protestant bachelor (sorry ladies). The reason for the somber mood was Miles Smith's on evangelicals and politics. There he suggests that American Protestants have lost a sense of nations sitting under God's judgment. In which case, the presidential campaign and the results could be less a story of redemption than they reveal God's rebuke of an errant society. From that starting point, conversation ranged to the degree to which confessional Protestants suffer from viewing the United States as a redeemer nation, how millennialism affects nationalism, differing estimates (Augustinian or Eusebian) of Christian government, and even whether Christians can learn a tragic sense of politics from H. L. Mencken. No sponsors, but it should have been Joy dishwashing detergent. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/34105336

The Live Show that Almost Died 10/14/2024

The Live Show that Almost Died We did try, the we being co-hosts (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian). The plan was to have a Zoom chat with listeners. We did but only one listener showed up. We will have to take another run at this. Even so, the lack of other chatters and despite some technological glitches, the co-hosts still managed to talk about what it means to belong to the church, the importance of the institutional church (over against parachurch competitors), and the degree to which cultural or civilizational Christianity reinforces church ties. Among the titles that we mentioned in connection with the effects of the Cold War on church life in the United States were Stephen Bullivant's ; , “‘Hail Luther’s Contribution’: A Sixteenth-Century Reformer in Cold War America” in Church History; and Kirk Farney's . Even "The Crown" came up (still working on "The Wire") in relation to that features Billy Graham's preaching for Queen Elizabeth (Season 2, ep.6). No sponsors this time. We would hate to sully any company or institution with this sorry technological performance. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/33455997

How Theologians Achieve Greatness 10/02/2024

How Theologians Achieve Greatness The Woody Allen movie, "Manhattan," includes a where two couples are walking and the one played by Michael Murphy and Diane Keaton unveil their Academy of Overrated. To this body they assign Gustav Mahler, Isak Dinesen, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Lenny Bruce, Norman Mailer, Mozart, , Vincent Van Gogh, and Ingmar Bergman. The co-hosts on this recording, (Lutheran), (Anglican), and (Presbyterian), consider their own list of overrated theologians. The ones discussed are Karl Barth, the Juergen Moltmann, and C. S. Lewis. The reason behind raising the question is not to belittle any of these theologians' achievements but to consider how it is that a theologian -- when there are so many -- emerges as the "go to" authority for ending a doctrinal debate. It also relates to confessional Protestant theological traditions in which those students training for a specific communion are going to be much more likely to read theologians in the Lutheran, Reformed, or Anglican traditions -- instead of reading broadly in the theologians who transcend specific Protestant communions. A final thread of conversation was whether the "big names" of Protestant theology can survive in an age of megachurches and church planting networks. The sponsor this time is in downtown Hillsdale, Michigan. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/33305227

Only Presbyterians Have Assemblies but Most Protestants Assemble 08/28/2024

Only Presbyterians Have Assemblies but Most Protestants Assemble The co-hosts, (Lutheran), @IVMiles (Anglican), and @oldlife (Presbyterian) have returned to campus and are so dedicated to their audience that they carved out time before the semester starts to talk about denominational news. Summers are when the NBA hosts its championship so that commissioners from confessional Protestant communions have something to watch after denominational meetings. The co-hosts go through the round-up of denominational news and even though the Lutherans did not meet Korey Maas explains the peculiarities of Missouri Synod polity. The hosts also discuss the relative toxicity of David French (who was ) and Carl Trueman who at an Anglican synod (Diocese of the Living Word). For anyone outside a denomination and feeling a hankering for this sort of Christian organization, Ross Douthat's in the United States may suggest the value of such structures. Yuval Levin's own is another reason to consider the superiority of denominations to networks and church-planting start-ups. Keep an eye out for a live Paleo Protestant Pudcast sometime in September. Information will be forthcoming (dv). /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/32775807

Why Don't Exvangelicals Check the Tires of Confessional Protestantism 07/23/2024

Why Don't Exvangelicals Check the Tires of Confessional Protestantism The whole crew (-Presbyterian, -Lutheran, and -Anglican) returns in this discussion of Miles's by evangelicals who left evangelicalism to become - you guessed it - exvangelicals. These books parallel the rise and fall of the Young Restless Reformed which was the subject of this . These trends also coincide with the increase of ," that is, people who used to identify as some version of Christian and now consider themselves "none," as in having no religion. For those who consider the importance of institutions, especially for confessional Protestants with a high doctrine of the church, these trends present serious dilemmas for the ongoing ministry of word and sacrament through the agency of an institutional church (sometimes known as denomination). Confessional Protestants generally take denominational structures for granted even though since the rise of the megachurch (1990s), followed by social network forms of Christian cooperation and aspiration (Gospel Coalition and Acts 29, for example), more and more American Christians are unfamiliar with the institutional mechanisms for organizing ministry and belonging. What may be especially intriguing for those with ears to be intrigued is that the shelf-life of recent evangelical endeavors in church planting run out of steam and done so almost as fast (as they tell us) as the planet is heating up. Summer is too short for advertisements. But Twitter access is still available for Miles Smith @ivmiles and D. G. Hart @oldlife. Please do not bother Korey Maas. He has an academic department to run. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/32264187

Can You Have A Christian America Without Christian Nationalism? 07/08/2024

Can You Have A Christian America Without Christian Nationalism? Summer has made convening the co-hosts more challenging than when the academic calendar locks these confessional Protestants down. For this episode, the pudcast needed to aspire to Internet greatness without the presence of our Lutheran colleague, . This left (Presbyterian) and (Anglican) to talk about Mile's new book, . The conversation explores the Protestant character of American society before 1865 without having an established church. What the United States did have was the host of voluntary societies and organizations about which Alexis de Toqueville marvelled, institutions that shaped public and private sentiments in ways that were not doctrinaire but were generically Protestant. These realities lead inevitably to questions about what relevance or wisdom this era of American history has for current elbow-throwing and breast-beating about Christian nationalism. This recording has no sponsor but if it did, it would have to be the publisher of Miles' book, the . Follow Miles Smith on Twitter @ivmiles and D. G. Hart @oldlife. Korey Maas remains inaccessible. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/32050052

How to Avoid Antinomianism in Preaching (and Preachers) 06/11/2024

How to Avoid Antinomianism in Preaching (and Preachers) One reason for the appeal of Christian Nationalism - either in its current form or its 1980s Moral Majority version - is the loss of moral norms in the wider society. American Christians (Protestants more than Roman Catholics) functioned in their society relatively comfortably with generic Christian morality as the standard for public and private behavior. As a moral consensus has eroded (is Donald Trump up or down stream from Pride Month?), churches may need to be more intentional about the basics of Christian morality than they were in previous generations. This discussion among the co-hosts - (Presbyterian), (Lutheran), and (Anglican) goes fairly deep into the weeds of preaching the law with the unexpected twist of the Lutheran leading the charge for application and moral exhortation in sermons. Later in the recording, the co-hosts also discuss the legitimacy of churches having a one-strike-and-you're-out policy for church officers who commit adultery through sexual sin. Is plagiarism in preaching as bad as adultery? Or do sexual offenses compromise a church officer's integrity in ways unlike other breaches of the moral law? Apologies to listeners for taking so long to post this recording. Hiccups in schedules and switching podcast platforms are partly to blame. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31699042

Do Confessional Protestants Need Rome for Civilizational Cover? 04/12/2024

Do Confessional Protestants Need Rome for Civilizational Cover? The confessional Protestants from south central Michigan return to the topic of the last - how much Christianity in the modern West dependes on the Roman Catholic Church -- with particular reference to the cover that Rome gives to Anglicans, Lutherans, and Presbyterians. For instance, can our communions oppose abortion more plausibly and vigorously because Rome, a big player in world affairs, already does? Co-hosts, Miles Smith (Anglican), D. G. Hart (Presbyterian), and Korey Maas (Lutheran) approach this question with help from two recent articles that make a point about an affinity between Protestants and Roman Catholics that keep the former from being able to disregard the latter's recent disputes over blessing same-sex unions. One is by Carl Trueman at , the other by Hans Boersma at . This recording's sponsor is the podcast with the Kelce brothers, Jason and Travis, an easier arrangement than obtaining Taylor Swift's blessing. Listeners may follow two of the hosts @IVMiles and @oldlife. Korey Maas' administrative duites mean email is his social medium. (Many thanks to our Southern audio engineer who makes the pudcast possible.) /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/30798798

The Appeal of Christian Nationalism 04/03/2024

The Appeal of Christian Nationalism This relatively brief conversation is downstream from previous discussions and arguments about Christian Nationalism first at and then at . (Anglican) and (Presbyterian) had the benefit this time of ' (Lutheran) presence to function as the adult in the room. Topics ranged from the generational appeal of Christian Nationalism (boomers turn out to be reliable -- who knew?), the traction it receives among Lutherans in the LCMS, and the erosion of confidence or participation in civic and ecclesiastical institutions. The co-hosts did not have enough time for discussion of Miles Smith's which bears directly on the Christian, more precisely Protestant, character of American political institutions in the Early Republic. Listeners can follow Dr. Smith (@IVMiles) and Dr. Hart (@oldlife) on X (formerly Twitter). To keep up with Dr. Maas, follow him following his children. /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/30670933

Confessional Protestants and Israel (ancient and modern) 11/27/2023

Confessional Protestants and Israel (ancient and modern)

The Pudcast and co-hosts return thanks to the news coming out of the Middle East and stories about American Protestants' understanding of Israel and Jews.

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What Are Denominations Good For? Absolutely Something! 10/30/2023

What Are Denominations Good For? Absolutely Something!

After a long hiatus, the Hillsdale History Protestant confessionalists are back to talk about denominations under the broader heading of institutional Christianity. Co-hosts include Korey Maas, resident Lutheran, Miles Smith, resident Anglican, and /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533437

Machen Day for Confessional Protestants 07/28/2023

Machen Day for Confessional Protestants

On July 28, 1881, J. Gresham Machen was born in Baltimore, Maryland. Four decades later he was an important figure in the Presbyterian controversy between conservatives and modernists, thanks in part to his 1923 book, Christianity and Liberalism, which (if you do the math) turns 100 this year.

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Have Classical Christian Schools made Christian Colleges Redundant? 06/28/2023

Have Classical Christian Schools made Christian Colleges Redundant?

Did you know that the enrollment of Mennonite students at denominational colleges is in decline (and has been or a decade)? You probably didn't and you may not care if you have traditional confessional Protestant disregard for Anabaptists. But that trend is not isolated among Mennonites. Evangelical colleges have /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533447

Confessional Protestants and the Negative World (conversation with Aaron Renn) 05/12/2023

Confessional Protestants and the Negative World (conversation with Aaron Renn)

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Are Confessional Churches Like Confessional States? 05/01/2023

Are Confessional Churches Like Confessional States?

Anglicans were in the news in April which provoked co-hosts ⁠⁠Miles Smith⁠⁠ (Anglican), ⁠⁠D. G. Hart⁠⁠ (Presbyterian), and ⁠⁠Korey Maas⁠⁠ (Lutheran) to talk about they way confessional states operate in comparison to confessional churches. Are confessional states like England or Scotland stricter th /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533457

The F-Word (are confessional Protestants fundamentalists?) 04/04/2023

The F-Word (are confessional Protestants fundamentalists?)

This time co-hosts ⁠Miles Smith⁠ (Anglican), ⁠D. G. Hart⁠ (Presbyterian), and ⁠Korey Maas⁠ (Lutheran) talk about the limitations of the American Protestant binary that divides white Protestants into either evangelicals or mainline (can you say "liberal"?). If a Protestant group doesn't fit one of /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533462

Frog in the Kettle 02/27/2023

Frog in the Kettle

In this conversation, co-hosts Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) lean heavily on Korey Maas (Lutheran) to make sense of the dust up in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod ov /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533472

More Ecclesial Than Thou 01/18/2023

More Ecclesial Than Thou

After a holiday break, co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) catch up on highlights of downtime (and don't even mention the liturgical calendar) and then converse about a species of Protestant that goes by the name, "ecclesiocentric post-liberals." A mouthful. Th /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533477

Seasons' Greetings 12/15/2022

Seasons' Greetings

It's the most wonderful time of the year because we have so many seasons to observe (do liturgical calendar adherents really think they can have it to themselves?). We have post-Thanksgiving nostalgia, the start of league play in NCAA DII basketball, the end of the academic term with finals and grading, Advent, and the excess of Christmas provides welcome push back to stale Halloween lawn displays.

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Singing Out of the Same Hymnal? 11/09/2022

Singing Out of the Same Hymnal?

At the end of the previous recording, co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) were talking about expectations for being a good Anglican, Lutheran, or Presbyterian. One consideration not often in the equation /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533487

What Must I Do to be A Good Protestant? 10/01/2022

What Must I Do to be A Good Protestant?

In history and geography, Presbyterians are adjacent to Puritans, which makes them "hot" Protestants in the sense that they exhibit forms of piety more intense, more holiness forward than other confessional Protestants. That is the reputation anyway for British Protestantism in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Over time, Presbyterians became synonymous with "God's frozen chosen" because their worship is and remains (for some) so dull and lacking in energy.

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Why Should Puritans Take All the Credit? 09/14/2022

Why Should Puritans Take All the Credit?

Upstream from Christian nationalism, the topic of our last discussion, is the use to which historians of the United States have put denominational or church history in describing American identity (and with it American nationalism). In this recording, co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533497

What Confessional Protestantism Teaches about Christian Nationalism 08/19/2022

What Confessional Protestantism Teaches about Christian Nationalism

The Magisterial Reformation was one version of Christian nationalism way before evangelical historians and hysteria prone journalists discovered the sources of support for Donald Trump. Co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly of An /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533502

Boys of Summer 07/11/2022

Boys of Summer

Too much for any single podcast to cover, but the regulars, co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) give it their best college try. T /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533507

Why Do You Need to Learn to Pray? 05/24/2022

Why Do You Need to Learn to Pray?

Another potentially controversial subject -- especially given Presbyterians' tradition of kvetching (and more) about prayer books -- but once more co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533512

Easter Afterglow 04/28/2022

Easter Afterglow

Christians on social media got a lot of mileage out of typing "He is risen!" on a specific Sunday in April. Some Presbyterians wondered about all the hub bub since during the week leading up to Easter Sunday, Jesus was was risen on each and every day. This episode brings co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), /episode/index/show/e3de9cb7-c07a-48a2-b290-45f4a8ba6ce0/id/31533517

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