We Dissent
We Dissent is a monthly podcast by three secular women, who also happen to be powerhouse attorneys at major secular organizations in the U.S. Join us as we discuss developments affecting the separation of church and state in the US Supreme Court and lower federal courts. We’ll also explore other advocacy work we do to help atheists and other nonreligious people outside the courtroom. We know there are so many atheist podcasts and legal podcasts and you have a lot to choose from, but we hope you’ll join us, the only legal podcast for atheists and agnostics hosted completely by women lawyers. We can’t wait to start these conversations.
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Christians Against Christian Nationalism
04/18/2024
Christians Against Christian Nationalism
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca welcome guest Amanda Tyler, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee and lead organizer of BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign. They discuss the urgent threat that Christian nationalist ideology poses to American democracy, how nonreligious and religious Americans alike can fight back, and Amanda explains the strong historical tradition of supporting state/church separation in the Baptist movement. Show Notes Check us out on , , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Tax the Church!
03/20/2024
Tax the Church!
Join Rebecca, Alison and Liz for a journey through the history and principles behind the U.S. exempting churches from taxation! We discuss the practice of tax exemption for charitable organizations, including churches, the major cases about the constitutionality of these ideas, and abuses of the Johnson Amendment. Background Other podcasts that talk about church taxation Cases FFRF’s IRS Cases Check us out on , , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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State of the State Legislatures in 2024
02/21/2024
State of the State Legislatures in 2024
It’s that wonderful time of year when Alison guides Rebecca and Liz through the upcoming legislative sessions in states across the country. We discuss upsetting trends in state legislation and bills we’re monitoring that affect the separation of church and state and threaten true religious liberty for everyone. Background and Resources What you can do and Action Alerts Bills Discussed Religion in schools School chaplain bills : Would require the display of the Ten Commandments in classrooms : Would allow teachers to display the Ten Commandments in classrooms : Would allow teachers to display the Ten Commandments in classrooms : Would allow teachers to each intelligent design as a theory of how the universe came to exist Trans bills The Guardian - : Would make it discrimination for a business to allow trans employees to access appropriate bathrooms : Would make using a bathroom that does not align with one’s sex assigned at birth a criminal trespass offense Healthcare : Prohibits discrimination against health care professionals who refuse to assist in trans healthcare : Would recognize abortion as homicide : Would remove the no aid clause from the Idaho constitution Cases Discussed Check us out on , , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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You’ve Got Mail
01/17/2024
You’ve Got Mail
Liz and Rebecca answer your burning questions on religious liberty issues and more! This episode, we reach into the mailbag and take on topics from YOU, our loyal listeners. Background Check us out on , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Inside the Mormon Church
12/20/2023
Inside the Mormon Church
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca interview Anaya Gayle—lawyer, ex-Mormon, and former BYU assistant dean. They discuss the power and influence the church wields and life for LGBTQ+ students at BYU, as Anaya shares her experience inside the insular LDS community. Background More about Anaya Gayle Check us out on , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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It’s Time to Wake Up! With Prof. Marci Hamilton
11/15/2023
It’s Time to Wake Up! With Prof. Marci Hamilton
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca are joined by Professor Marci Hamilton, legal icon and leading expert on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) and extreme religious liberty. Professor Hamilton explains the origin story of RFRA, how it has led us to the emerging theocracy we face, and what Americans can do to reclaim true religious liberty before it’s too late. Background Cases Check us out on , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Back to (Public) School!
10/25/2023
Back to (Public) School!
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca go back to school! They discuss the latest wild and crazy state/church violations in public schools reported to their organizations, the postscript on the Coach Kennedy case, and the alarming move by Oklahoma to create the first religious public school. Background Complaints Discussed Cases Resources Check us out on , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Let’s Talk About Texas
09/20/2023
Let’s Talk About Texas
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca take a deep dive into Texas for a case study in theocratic government. They discuss recent Christian nationalist legislation advancing in the state, the takeover of state institutions by conservative Christian legal groups, and the many state/church battles their organizations have fought in Texas. Background Resources Bills Discussed and : Would allow a period of prayer and reading of the Bible or other religious text in public schools : Would have created the right for a public school employee to engage in religious speech or prayer while on duty : Would require the display of the Ten Commandments in public schools : Would allow school districts to employ chaplains to perform the duties of school counselors Cases Check us out on , and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Reclaiming Religious Liberty with Liz Reiner Platt
08/24/2023
Reclaiming Religious Liberty with Liz Reiner Platt
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca discuss a better vision for religious liberty with Liz Reiner Platt, director of the Law, Rights, and Religion Project, a law and policy think tank based at Columbia Law School. They talk about using religious exemptions to promote progressive social causes and issues, including the legal fight for a right to abortion based on freedom of conscience. Background Resources Amicus Briefs Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Supreme Mess
07/19/2023
Supreme Mess
The Supreme Court continues to mess up civil rights for everyone. In this episode Rebecca and Liz discuss the two opinions handed down by the Supreme Court at the end of June, Groff v. DeJoy and 303 Creative v. Elenis. They recap the case, summarize the rulings, and discuss implications of the decisions. Background Groff v. DeJoy 303 Creative v. Elenis Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Neither rain, nor snow, nor Nascar: Groff v. DeJoy
06/14/2023
Neither rain, nor snow, nor Nascar: Groff v. DeJoy
Alison, Rebecca, and Liz discuss the pending Post Office case—Groff v. DeJoy—another high-stakes case in which the Supreme Court considers how much hardship a business must bear to accommodate the religious practices of employees. They explain how the case threatens to disrupt decades of case law interpreting Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and what the oral arguments may have signaled about the potential outcome. Background Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Heads I Win, Tails You Lose: Discussing State/Church Separation with Professor Corbin
05/18/2023
Heads I Win, Tails You Lose: Discussing State/Church Separation with Professor Corbin
Rebecca, Liz, and Alison discuss the state of state/church separation with Professor Caroline Corbin, constitutional law professor at the University of Miami. They review the history of Establishment Clause jurisprudence, remind listeners about what the Supreme Court did to the religion clauses in 2022, and discuss where we stand now in regards to rights under the First Amendment. TLDR: If you’re a Christian, rest assured it’s a “Heads I Win, Tails You Lose” court. Background Previous We Dissent episodes on Carson v. Makin Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Court Reform with Katie O’Connor
04/26/2023
Court Reform with Katie O’Connor
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca are joined by Katie O’Connor, Deputy Chief Counsel at Demand Justice, to discuss court reform. Katie explains how the Supreme Court and federal courts have been broken, why it’s an existential threat to our secular democracy, and how we can fix it. Background Legislation Discussed Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Sex on the Brain: the Assault on Trans People with Sasha Buchert
03/22/2023
Sex on the Brain: the Assault on Trans People with Sasha Buchert
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca welcome another guest to the pod—Sasha Buchert, senior attorney and director of the Non-Binary and Transgender Rights Project for Lambda Legal. Sasha guides us through a discussion of the history of transgender rights in the courts, the current legislative attacks on trans people we are seeing across the country, and the litigation to overturn anti-trans laws. Background Cases Resources American Atheists FFRF Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Ministerial Exception 101
02/22/2023
Ministerial Exception 101
What is the ministerial exception? Where did it come from? What has the Supreme Court said about this legal doctrine? In this episode, Rebecca, Liz and Alison recount the history of the ministerial exception and break down the two major cases from the Supreme Court on point: Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Church and School v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Our Lady of Guadalupe v. Morrisey-Berru. Background Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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303 Creative v. Elenis (This Case Should Be Dismissed!)
01/25/2023
303 Creative v. Elenis (This Case Should Be Dismissed!)
Rebecca, Liz and Alison discuss the December 2022 oral arguments in the latest services for same sex wedding case, 303 Creative v. Elenis. This case involves a Christian website designer who would like to expand her business to create wedding websites, but would refuse to do that for same sex couples. The hosts discuss the craziness that was the oral argument and what this case means for religious liberty and gay rights. Background Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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It Varies By State
12/22/2022
It Varies By State
Alison guides us through the legislative process in states and what to expect in the 2023 legislative sessions. We discuss how a bill becomes a law, what bills we’re tracking for next year, and give advice on how you can become an effective advocate! Cases Resources American Atheists FFRF Other Links Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Elections!
11/16/2022
Elections!
Rebecca, Liz, Monica, and Alison discuss the ways in which the separation of church and state surfaces during election season. They’ll break down the Johnson Amendment, the rules and restrictions churches must adhere to in order to be tax-exempt, and then explore the unique complaints they receive involving voting in churches. , , and (like churches!) are 501(c)(3) organizations and therefore do not endorse or oppose candidates for public office. Background Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Religion Behind Bars
10/20/2022
Religion Behind Bars
Monica, Alison, Liz, and Rebecca discuss religious liberty issues in our jails and prisons. From court-ordered AA to coercive prayer meetings to forming atheist and humanist groups in prisons, there are plenty of ways the separation of church and state affects this vulnerable population. Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Regulations Rule!
09/21/2022
Regulations Rule!
Alison guides Rebecca, Monica and Liz through a discussion of another tool we have to keep religion out of government: administrative rules and regulations. The co-hosts give an overview of this body of law, and discuss how it’s been used to erode the wall of separation and what we can do to roll that back. Background Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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No Victory for Religious Liberty: Discussing Coach Prayer with Rachel Laser
09/01/2022
No Victory for Religious Liberty: Discussing Coach Prayer with Rachel Laser
Liz, Rebecca, Monica and Alison recap the case, Kennedy v. Bremerton, discussed in Episode 5 and review the decision handed down by the Supreme Court at the end of June. Later in the episode they’re joined by the pod’s very first guest, Rachel Laser, President and CEO of Americans United, who represented Bremerton at the high court. Rachel joins for a conversation about being a woman leader in the fight to keep state/church separate, and what our future holds after a dismal June. It’s a long episode, but worth every minute! Background
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Bonus Episode! Shurtleff v. City of Boston
08/02/2022
Bonus Episode! Shurtleff v. City of Boston
Rebecca and Liz recap the case, which was discussed in Episode 2, and review the decision handed down by the Supreme Court earlier this year. They also discuss the importance of this decision in the context of all other religious liberty cases from the high court’s term this past year. Background Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Bonus Episode! Carson v. Makin Update
07/28/2022
Bonus Episode! Carson v. Makin Update
Liz and Rebecca recap the case, which was discussed in Episode 1, and review the decision handed down by the Supreme Court at the end of June. They also discuss the impact this has for the separation of state and church moving forward. Background Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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The Abortion Episode
07/20/2022
The Abortion Episode
Liz, Rebecca, Alison and Monica discuss the decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturns the fundamental right to abortion care. The co-hosts break down the decision, the ramifications of the decision, and commiserate over the future of the rights of women to make their own health care choices. Background Relevant Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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You, Coach Kennedy, are no Tim Tebow
06/22/2022
You, Coach Kennedy, are no Tim Tebow
Liz, Rebecca, Alison and Monica break down the latest case threatening the separation of church and state, Kennedy v. Bremerton, which involves a Christian high school football coach praying at the 50-yard line after games. The hosts review the facts of the case, outline what happened at oral arguments and make predictions on what this means for the rights of public high school students of minority faiths or no faith at all. Background Relevant Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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Religious Liberty and the Death Penalty
06/08/2022
Religious Liberty and the Death Penalty
Rebecca, Monica, Alison, and Liz discuss the religious liberty issues arising in death penalty cases. Since 2019, questions about what religious liberty rights are afforded to those sentenced to death at the moment of their execution have been featured at the high court. Rebecca walks us through four notable cases on this issue and the hosts discuss what it means for religious liberty cases overall. Background Relevant Cases
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Secular State Advocacy in the Age of Christian Nationalism
06/01/2022
Secular State Advocacy in the Age of Christian Nationalism
Alison, Rebecca and Monica discuss another tool in our kit to keep religion and government separate: legislative advocacy. Alison, as our resident policy expert, guides us through the many bills that threaten church/state separation wending their ways through state legislatures this year. Background Relevant Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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The So-Called Establishment Clause: Shurtleff v. City of Boston
05/25/2022
The So-Called Establishment Clause: Shurtleff v. City of Boston
Monica, Liz, Rebecca, and Alison review the case, Shurtleff v. City of Boston, in which the city of Boston denied a religious organization, Camp Constitution, its request to fly the Christian flag at city hall. The hosts discuss the free speech and religion clause arguments presented at oral arguments in December 2021. *Note, this episode was recorded prior to the Supreme Court handing down the decision on May 2, 2022. An update to this episode is forthcoming. Background Relevant Cases Check us out on and . Our website, , has more information as well as episode transcripts.
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The Sleeper Case: Carson v. Makin
05/18/2022
The Sleeper Case: Carson v. Makin
Liz, Rebecca, Alison and Monica discuss the “sleeper case” of the Supreme Court term which could upend prohibitions on government funding to religious schools. The lawyers break down the arguments from the case out of Maine, Carson v. Makin, and discuss ramifications and potential outcomes. Background Relevant Cases
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We Dissent Promo
04/18/2022
We Dissent Promo
Please listen to the We Dissent Podcast promo, and stay tuned for our first episode!
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