Get Rich Education
This show has created more financial freedom for busy people like you than nearly any show in the world. Wealthy people's money either starts out or ends up in real estate. But you can't lose your time. Without being a landlord or flipper, you learn about strategic passive real estate investing to create wealth for yourself. I'm show host Keith Weinhold. I also serve on the Forbes Real Estate Council and write for Forbes. I serve you ACTIONABLE content for cash flow on a platter. Our bottom line in real estate investing together is: “What’s your Return On Time?” Where traditional personal finance merely helps you avoid losing, you learn how to WIN. Why live below your means when you can grow your means? Since 2002, international real estate investor Keith Weinhold owns multifamily apartment buildings to single family homes to agricultural real estate. New episodes are delivered every Monday.
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598: How to Retire from Landlording with a 721 Exchange
03/23/2026
598: How to Retire from Landlording with a 721 Exchange
Hear how real estate investors can transition out of active landlording while staying invested in the asset class. Keith speaks with Ari Rubin, founder of Flock Homes, about using a 721 Exchange to move from directly owned rental properties into a professionally managed partnership structure. They discuss why exit planning is essential, how this strategy can defer taxes, reduce hands-on management, and provide diversified, passive income and appreciation potential for long-time landlords and portfolio builders alike. Resources: To see whether a 721 Exchange could work for your rentals, request a free property evaluation at Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, when it's time for you to sell your rental property, there's a vehicle you may not have heard of that allows you to exchange it into a partnership. This makes it hands off for you. Defers your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, while you still can enjoy appreciation and cash flow. It's the exit strategy that helps you retire from landlording, known as the 721 exchange today on get rich education, Corey Coates 0:34 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast, sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:17 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com, that's Ridge lending group.com, Speaker 1 1:51 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 2:07 Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 today's show should help a lot of people as you grow your real estate portfolio over time. You add to it and you multiply it. You do that by using more of your own money and more of other people's money and more of your equity from one property to buy another property. But we've all got to begin with the end in mind, today's show is about your exit strategy, how to sell your property, whether it's selling all of them or some of them, and you're doing that in both a tax efficient way and a management efficient way, because it's about how to exchange them into a partnership. Still get financial upside for appreciation and cash flow, but yet you achieve about as much passivity as what you would have with a Schwab or say, Vanguard mutual fund. Now, back when GRE began, over 11 years ago, we wouldn't have done a show like this because most new listeners were in acquisition mode learning about the GRE way, and that might still be true, but today, we've got both new listeners and longtime listeners that have engaged with GRE investment coaches and learned from listening to each weekly episode, and have built their portfolios and have turned get rich education into got rich education. Congratulations. A lot of you have now achieved financial freedom, and you're looking for an eventual exit. Now, even if you own dozens of rental properties like I do, you don't feel much management strain most of the time, because also, like I do, you outsource to property managers, but some of you self manage, and you can then achieve real relief when you exit before we bring in our expert guest and discuss The 721 exchange. Hey, you've seen me write about the Iran war in our newsletter, and you've seen me discussing it on YouTube. The short story is that war is really expensive, war is inflationary, and war in Iran could very well be setting us up for another inflationary wave like we had from 2021 to 2023 I'm probably going to talk more about it next week, if the war is still ongoing, and what it means to real estate investors. Also a lot of great episodes coming up here at GRE including the show debut. Two of Redfin chief economist Darrell fairweather PhD, who will be here with us soon as for this week, let's learn about an efficient real estate exit strategy. Keith Weinhold 5:17 This week's guest is someone that is going to help a lot of you, so I've really anticipated having him on educated at Harvard and Stanford. He went on to become a somewhat conventional investment manager, until he was motivated by his parents experience as Chicago landlords to launch another venture in 2021 which you'll learn about today. Welcome to GRE Ari Rubin Ari Rubin 5:42 Keith, thank you so much for having me on the show today, and to all your listeners out there. It's great to meet all of you, and thanks for listening in today. Keith Weinhold 5:49 Yeah, Rubin is spelled r, u, B, I N, yeah, I understand you've heard from some of our listeners Speaker 2 5:55 exactly, I actually heard about your podcast and your show from a number of our clients will go more into the problem that we're solving and the types of landlords that we work with, but some of them have been listening you to you for a long time. Some of them got motivated to get into real estate because of your show. So yeah, really excited to be here chatting with you today. Keith Weinhold 6:17 Well, thanks so much. Basically, what you do is you help people retire from landlording, but not real estate. We'll get more into that later. But a lot of times when investors have been in the direct real estate investing game for a while, they begin to feel like they've got their dollars trapped in this real estate game. And it can be easy to argue there's no other place you'd rather have it, but tell us more about that trapped feeling with managing rental properties. Speaker 2 6:45 Yeah, So Keith, maybe just to start out, I want to just talk about the problem that we're solving at flock. So as everyone knows, and there's a lot of resources out there, real estate is a great place, a great way to build wealth, and it's a lot of work, and it takes a lot of effort and a lot of skill and a lot of time, but we find that not enough folks think about, once you get in, how do you exit? And just for those on the show who are listening, who aren't even in real estate yet, or maybe they're just a couple of years into real estate, you always want to think about your exit, and at a certain point, once you've owned real estate for five years, 10 years, 30 years, at some point in your life, you're going to want to exit, and that's because, at the end of the day, managing and owning Real Estate takes work. You can hire a property manager, but you still have to manage even the best property manager doesn't really solve all the problems of being a landlord. For example, if you have an eviction, you still have to pay for that. If you have a massive capital improvement, roofs to replace, HVACs to do, you're still on the hook for that. Ultimately, you're liable when you own real estate, right? You could be sued. You have a feeling, and you should be responsible for your residence and for the homes. So at the end of the day, at a certain point, every single person in this world will get to the point where they're like, I'm done owning real estate. I want to retire. I want true peace of mind. But the problem with that is, when you're ready to exit, you got to sell. That's really the only way out. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have some kids who want to take over the business or the properties, but you know, if you're like a lot of clients that we work with, your kids, maybe they're on to bigger and better things. They've moved across the country. Or, you know, this generation doesn't fix things like the last one did, right? And so unless you have kids who are really, really ready to step up and be super hands on, you don't have an exit and selling, of course, triggers a huge tax liability. So when you sell real estate, you not only have to maybe kick out your tenants and stage the house and pay all the frictions and all the fees, the biggest thing is you have to pay capital gains and depreciation or capture taxes. And we'll come back into what all that means and all how that looks like. So in summary, when you sell real estate and you've owned for a long time, you could be faced with losing upwards of 30% of your equity, which is a lot of money. That's a big chunk of your nest egg, of your net worth. You also you love real estate, you've done really, really well with real estate. So at flock, we've built the retirement solution for landlords, and we'll go more into how this all works, but essentially, we help people with the most cost efficient, seamless exit strategy by exchanging their equity for shares. In our larger fund. So that's just very quickly, the problem that we're solving and some of the clients, the problem that we work with Keith Weinhold 10:08 this is important. I'm a longtime real estate investor. I have not self managed in many years, but I basically asset manage my managers oftentimes reading their monthly statements, replying to emails about various things, but yeah, there is some day in which I probably wish to not have to do that anymore, and indeed, selling it all would incur a steep capital gains tax. Now what I've done is I've done cash out refinances and 1031 exchanges along the way to continue to defer any tax obligation that I have. But of course, when I do a 1031, exchange, I grow my portfolio, and there's more to manage, Speaker 2 10:50 exactly. So you know, you just laid out two excellent options out there for ways to sort of consolidate, or, you could say, even better, leverage your equity in real estate. You can do a cash out refi, and that's of course, where you pull cash out of the properties so you're more liquid, or you buy more real estate, or you can do something called a 1031 exchange. And Keith, I'm sure a lot of your listeners out there know what a 1031 exchange is, but just for everyone listening in in or in case folks are less familiar, a 1031 exchange is essentially a real estate loophole. It used to apply to artwork and airplanes and a lot of other stuff. Now it's just real estate, and it's a part of the tax code that says you can sell your real estate, and if you follow this process within a certain timeframe, and then use what's called a Qualified Intermediary, you can roll those proceeds forward and buy new real estate and defer that tax liability into the future. Now the benefit to that is you just achieve tax deferral, but as you said, you still own real estate, and so for a lot of younger investors out there, a 1031 exchange is a really effective way to continue to grow their portfolio, or be more thoughtful about their approach. But for longer time real estate investors, a 1031 exchange doesn't really solve your problem. You still own real estate, you're still liable for tenants, for toilets, for trash, right? And so if you're trying to really retire from being a landlord, a 1031 exchange doesn't really do that. And of course, a cash out refi, all that does is just take on more debt and more risk and more liability. Great option if you're young and you're still trying to grow when we hear from a lot of clients, maybe not the best option in the second half of your life as you're really trying to focus on wealth preservation. Keith Weinhold 12:51 Yes, a lot of our listeners are indeed familiar with the 1031, tax deferred exchange. You're typically trading up and deferring your tax on the way. And that trading up, it really just gets you even more into real estate investing, because with almost every 1031 exchange, you're going to own more doors than when you began the process. However, a lot of people aren't as familiar with the 721 exchange. Why are people less familiar with it? Ari Speaker 2 13:21 great question, Keith, and you're right, less people are familiar with it. So in plain English, the 721 exchange, it's also part of the tax code. It's not a real estate loophole. It actually applies to equities or many other asset classes. And in plain English, what it says is, Keith, you own, let's say a million dollars worth of assets you can exchange. You can contribute those assets into a partnership and receive back a million dollars worth of shares or units of the partnership. And in doing so, it's a tax deferred exchange. There are some nuances that you have to be mindful of, just like in a 1031 exchange in terms of boots and cash out refis, but as a general rule, it's a lot more flexible and a lot more seamless than a 1031 exchange. And so again, Keith, you sell, you exchange, you contribute your properties into a fund or into a partnership using the 721 exchange. You now own shares of that partnership. You get all the returns and cash flow and ongoing tax benefits from owning shares in the partnership. To your question, why do less people know about the 721 exchange? It's very common in large commercial real estate, big real estate investment trusts have been using the 721 exchange for decades. The problem with it is it's really complicated to do. So these transactions are quite laborious. There's lots of paperwork. Historically, you would need an army of lawyers and accountants and tax professionals just to consummate one of these things. Surely, if you had a $500 million apartment building or office complex, you would be familiar with this. But until now, no one had really built this for the little guy. And I'm putting that in quotes, right? Because, you know, if you own 10 single family rental homes, 50 single family rental homes, even one single family rental home, you could have hundreds of 1000s of dollars, millions of dollars of equity. You're not such a little guy or gal, right? But these are the moms and pops who own the vast majority of real estate in this country. And so our idea at floc was to go out and, for lack of a better term, democratize access, to give access to this really powerful wealth preservation tool, the 721 exchange, a mechanism that's been used by ultra high net worth families and big institutional investors and big Wall Street firms for decades, and really enable it to the masses out there, To the millions and millions of hardworking Americans who have built up these properties, these portfolios, for decades. Keith Weinhold 16:27 I've got to say I had heard of the 721 exchange quite a long time ago, but it wasn't until last year that I became more familiar with it, and more familiar with what you do, and realizing that this could help an awful lot of people. You're listening to get rich education. We're talking with flock homes founder, Ari Rubin, about the 721 exchange, how it works and how it might be able to help you more when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, Keith Weinhold 16:53 let me throw out a simple idea, sometimes doing nothing with your money is actually a decision. Leaving it parked. Might feel safe, but over time, purchasing power changes. So the conversation isn't about chasing returns, it's about intentionally placing money somewhere. Freedom. Family investments works in real estate people use every day, housing, senior communities, essential properties, things tied to living and not trends. Their freedom notes offering is built for accredited investors looking for structured income backed by real assets, not speculation. I am an investor with them myself. The Freedom team makes themselves available to walk through their approach, structure and operating philosophy so you can ask questions and determine alignment before moving forward, while past performance doesn't guarantee future results, their historical operating philosophy has yielded 100% investor payouts backed by over 20 years of experience. If you want clarity before making any moves. Book, a clarity call at Freedom family investments.com or text family to 66 866, text the word family to 66866 Keith Weinhold 18:15 flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem, property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains, tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721 the residential real estate request your initial valuation. See if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g R, E. Todd Drowlette 18:54 This is the star of the A and E show the real estate commission. Todd rollette. Listen to get rich education with my friend, Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Welcome Keith Weinhold 19:04 back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, here on episode 598 we're talking with flock homes founder, Ari Rubin, where they help real estate investors retire from landlording, but not so much real estate with a 721, exchange is something that can be used for retiring landlords along with active landlords if they're just looking to offload one or two properties to exchange into this partnership that we've been talking about. And Ari on your website. It was interesting. I watched the video of you and a woman where you somewhat had to convince the woman to start this fund that did not have any properties in it yet, which is really interesting. And before we're done, we'll talk about. How many properties you have in the portfolio and how many investors you have, but this is something that an investor can exchange their properties into, and yet they still receive the financial upside of both cash flow and appreciation. So tell us more about that Speaker 2 20:16 exactly. So I'll just quickly explain how it all works. And I do want to also touch on our first client ever, our first landlord ever. Surely, everyone has their story of how they got started in real estate. But you know, for us, at the end of the day, it's a people business. You know, our clients are the millions and millions of mom...
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597: A 19-Year-Old’s Take on Gen Z, Real Estate, and Economics
03/16/2026
597: A 19-Year-Old’s Take on Gen Z, Real Estate, and Economics
Keith sits down with the youngest guest in show history—a 19-year-old college sophomore and student-athlete who’s already deeply immersed in real estate and economics, Hunter Taddy. You’ll hear a candid Gen Z perspective on money, debt, and the shifting social landscape, along with what’s really being taught in today’s real estate and econ classrooms. They explore how young people are navigating college costs, work, and early investing decisions, and how hands-on property management education is shaping one student’s path. If you’re curious about where the next generation of investors is headed—and what that might mean for your own strategy—this conversation offers a rare, on-the-ground look without the usual clichés. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold talking with a 19 year old guest that I befriended last year. He's a college sophomore with a real estate investing related major. What does he think about generation Z's future is in person, social life, dead. And what do you really learn about real estate and economics in college today on get rich education. Corey Coates 0:27 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android. Listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast, sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:11 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Speaker 1 1:44 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 2:00 Welcome to GRE from Concord, New Hampshire to Concord, California and across 188 nations worldwide, you're listening to one of America's longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Increasingly, you know, people ask why even go to college? Is the value of higher education even worth it to drag yourself to an 8am American Lit class while living off of dining hall Breakfast Biscuits and chicken strips for $100,000 a year, it's been estimated that one in seven men are meats, n, e, e, t, that means not in education, employed or training. Why put on a suit and tie and show up at a job when you have a reasonable facsimile of life online and you have discord and Reddit and trade stocks on Robinhood and crypto on Coinbase. Now I don't think that's going to be good for you, and I still think that there are a lot of positives about attending college. At least 15 to 20 colleges close each year in the United States. And despite this, you know, most people that I talk to, they still seem to be mostly positive about college, or they have this expectation that their kids go to college. So anecdotally, this hasn't changed. I probably wouldn't even be as aware of this shift if I didn't read media like I do, if I just talked to people informally, I really wouldn't know. One thing that has not changed also is the notion of the broke college student. I used to be one of those. Now America is just a couple years removed from that wave of elevated inflation and war in Iran has positioned to stoke a second wave of inflation. Today's guest told me that he does pay credit card finance charges, even though he makes more than the minimum payment, just kind of like I did as a college student. The default state of teenage society today is different. It used to be boredom, and now that's been replaced with anxiety. That part has certainly changed, and often it tends to be teen anxiety over such nonsense things. I mean, I have a teenage niece. One example is the burden of maintaining your Snapchat streak? Oh my gosh, if you're a Gen Z or you know what I'm talking about, basically a snap streak where you've got to send a friend a photo or video every single day to keep your streak going, two people have to send it to each other, and people with long streaks, they even like send each other a photo of the floor, just. To keep the streak going. I mean, talk about anxiety over the wrong things. Keith Weinhold 5:04 Well, today's team guest Hunter, he has a somewhat better grip on life. I haven't met his parents yet, but they've done an amazing job. In fact, Hunter's dad owns rental property, which kind of helps to fuel some of his interests and desire. But in order to cope with inflation and expenses, buy now pay later programs have really taken off. They're widely known, but less widely known. Our rent now pay later plans. They're booming. Platforms like livable, flex and affirm. They're used by lower income and lower credit score tenants that often live paycheck to paycheck. And how it works is that these tenants are extended money at the beginning of the month to pay the rent. They often pay a flat subscription fee plus 1% of the rent. And you know, hey, that could be better than the tenant paying late fees to the landlord. I learned from one tenant that had trouble paying his $1,850 in rent that flex charged him a $15 monthly subscription plus 1% of the total rent for providing the service. So his total fees for the app were around $33 a month rent. Now pay later. You're probably only going to hear more about it, but if you're a landlord, you probably do not know that your tenant is using a rent now, pay later plan, because you just received the full payment on time, and then your tenant pays back the service later. Remember, it is called rent. Now, pay later. Oh, before we bring in our guest, can I ask you for some quick help? Maybe you wanted to tell me what you think about the show. You could have been listening for years, but you don't think that you can reach me. If this show has helped you become a better investor, the best way to support the podcast is to leave a quick rating or review. It helps more investors discover the show. Just tap the five stars in your podcast app. It can take as little as 10 seconds, and I will read it myself. Thanks in advance for leaving a rating and review. Let's meet this week's guest. Keith Weinhold 7:22 This week's guest is the youngest we've ever had in show history. He's a teenager, so he's about a generation younger than me, and it's his first time on a podcast. He is a sophomore student athlete at the University of Alaska Anchorage, where he competes in the 800 meters for the track and field team. He runs about a 155 his major is management, with a specialization in real estate and property management, and he's just into so many things beyond athletics and academics, he serves as an ambassador for the Widener property management and real estate program. He's also an officer of the real estate management and investment club from Wisconsin. He's 19 years old, a straight A student. He's also an RA that's a Resident Assistant there helping out students at the dorms. Welcome to GRE Hunter, toddy. Hunter Taddy 8:18 Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Keith Weinhold 8:20 Taddy is spelled T, A, D, D, Y. I met Hunter almost six months ago. A property manager introduced us just thinking that we might have some things in common, and she sure was right. We've gotten together a few times, including going running at one time where, well, I had more than a little trouble keeping up with an active college athlete. The last time we sat down for coffee, just last week, I looked at my watch. We were done, and we sat almost two and a half hours like how many teenagers could really hold my attention for that long? But he just understands the world and politics surprisingly well. For a 19 year old. He's confident and well thought out. He's read War and Peace. He even got some of his own cooking and avoids seed oils. And you know, Hunter being born in 2006 when GRE debuted in 2014 you were eight years old. So before we talk about you, let's talk about your generation, generation Z What do you think some of the markers of your generation are? Keith Weinhold 9:28 Yeah, so it's as I've shared with you in the past. It's interesting, because especially at UA, I'm mostly surrounded by like, athletes. So athletes tend to be a lot more social, just like how they grown up, they're always around people that tend to be a lot more driven. But then when I talk to, like, non athletes, it's a little bit different. Like, my generation is definitely they're on their phone a lot. I mean, I've told you before, like, I avoid social media. Well, I wouldn't say like the flag, but I avoid it a lot, because I know, hey, how addicting it is. And B, just like, you know, the.The word of my generation is slop or brain rot, and which is most of the stuff on the internet, but Yeah, seems to be like, there's a lot of anxiety in my generation, a lot of, like, lack of accountability, which I've noticed a lot lot of, like, lack of responsibility. And it's almost like self indulgent in a way, where it's like, oh I'm so lazy, or Oh, I'm so this, or I'm so that, and it's just kind of weird. You don't really get that much with like the athletes. Back to the social aspect. I don't know if you've seen that headline recently, that's like, the alcohol industry has lost eight, $30 million over the past four years because he doesn't drink. The real story isn't about Gen Z not wanting to drink alcohol. It's about Gen Z, not like really being social, right? I mean, I don't see that many like, Hangouts as much as, like, when I hear from, like my parents, you know, every night you're going somewhere with your friends or your you know, you're going to the bar, you're going to a bonfire, or things like that. And it's just, you don't see it as much. A lot of people are just in their rooms or online and, you know, the online gaming, online gaming, I don't game a lot, but gaming with friends is actually really fun to do sometimes. But everything's a lot more digital, you know, from the communication to like the spaces, you know, where you hang out, whether it's video games or whether it's VR chat, and some people do that, or discord, or just like internet forums and things like that. Yeah, just lot more digital. Keith Weinhold 11:24 Yeah, you use little or no social media. Personally, I know you manage the Instagram page for your real estate organization, but yeah, there is more of this perception of in person, social life, maybe not dead, but dying. I've learned that 51% of 18 to 24 year old men have never asked out a woman in person you were sharing with me at how you know people have anxiety just about ordering food in person at a restaurant in Gen Z. Hunter Taddy 11:54 That's actually funny. So because of how that conversation escalated, I technically did ask her out in Snapchat, but then she was like, you have to ask me out in person. And then I did eventually ask her out in person. Keith Weinhold 12:06 Now, when it comes to in person meetings, after a few meetings with you, I noticed something rare when it's about seeing people in person, you have virtues that I think are somewhat rare for Generation Z. I mean, you actually show up on time. This this chat we're having right now. It's the fourth time we've gotten together, and you actually showed up early each of the four times, which is something that I really notice and appreciate, which, even for people my age, it seems like it's a virtue that they've lost. I mean, showing up on time is just common decency. That's just doing what you said that you were going to do. I find that pretty interesting. But when it comes to your generation being in college now, I mean, college is tough. You know, when I went to college, I took on student loans. My parents and I each paid for half of the tuition, and also worked a part time job while I was there. So I mean, you hang out with a lot of athletes, but how is it with balancing, you know, the income and student loans? Because, you know, college kids are still pretty poor Hunter Taddy 13:10 I wanted to run for a division two program, because you can get athletic scholarship. I came in as a walk on. I'm not on any athletic scholarship. I get free housing and free meals for being an RA. Yeah, with my RA position, I actually got the RA position my second semester. So I got it as a freshman, which was like, really, really clutch. So my dad was in the Air Force for 20 years, and I got the GI bill for like, I think, six months. So I got my two first semesters of tuition paid for, and then I got some, like, some money for, like, housing and stuff. I mean, I pocketed most of that just because, I mean, I got it for free already. I don't get any more help from the GI Bill, because I'm not in Wisconsin. But if I went to Wisconsin, I could go to any school for free, like, tuition free. So, I mean, sometimes I do think about that, but with my real estate program. I mean, oh my gosh, the scholarship deadline. Every year they give out like, $50,000 in scholarships. A lot of them are from Widener and then just other like local real estate companies in the area. Last year, I got a $2,500 scholarship to travel to the National Apartment Association's apartmentalized It's like, their yearly conference in Las Vegas, and that was pretty cool. So that stuff kind of went over my head, but a lot of the stuff about AI was, like, just really interesting to hear, especially just about property management. And it's crazy to me, because, like, AI is almost like, my generation's thing, since we're, like, growing up with it, yeah. And then hearing, like, a lot of like, the older people in the property management profession talk about, I mean, they're still talking about when they had to keep their records on pen and paper, or, like, files and stuff. And I'm like, This is crazy. So I have scholarships with the real estate program, if I'm lucky, I can get up to almost $10,000 after the spring. It's.That means I pay in state tuition because I live on campus. It was a deal they were running after covid. So that's only like $5,700 I mean, my scholarships will be able to cover that. This semester, I paid like 2000 of it or something, and then my parents were kind enough to cover the rest, and then I'm going to pay them back right away after the year ends once I get those scholarships. And then, yeah, I get $11 an hour for working desk at my RA job. It's tax free, so, I mean, it's not totally bad, but I don't working desk hours that much because we only have them at night. And then, you know, being an athlete, I don't like staying up until, you know, one o'clock sometimes. I mean, the other night, I had to work a nine to three desk shift, and that screwed my whole for an entire week. Yeah. Okay, Keith Weinhold 15:48 so when you graduate college in a few years, you could very well come out with a lower student loan balance than a lot of others did, although you might still have an informal loan with dad in there as well. How do you and a lot of people of your generation see your financial future? They sure can be hard to predict, but a lot of people see this crushing debt with student loans, and I wonder, even though it could be far into the future if really Gen Z thinks that they're ever going to be able to afford a home. Now, when it comes to the student loans, I know I shared with you when we sat down for coffee that I had a balance. I think it was like a $20,000 balance when I graduated, because again, my parents paid half of it and I worked part time when I went to school, I shared with you that I just took that balance and paid very little interest on my student loan balance because I kept transferring it repeatedly onto these 0% APR credit cards, and when my introductory rate expired on one card, I would just transfer it onto another card. So I've long been comfortable with debt. Hunter Taddy 16:52 So me, personally, I do not want to take out a loan from any entity. I'm very fortunate and privileged that my parents are able to, you know, front that money for me when I need it. When I need it, I try to pay them back right away. I do not want student loans like my goal is to get out of college, you know, without owing anybody any money. It's weird, because I'm from such a small town in Wisconsin, and I view trades a lot differently than, like a lot of my peers who grew up in the big cities, I know blue collar millionaires, right? People who just, you know, put their nose to the grindstone, pouring concrete. You know, working driving a semi. Only do that for maybe five or 10 years, like my cousins. My cousin pours concrete, and then the other one, I think, works for construction company, the Midwestern work ethic, they're sitting on 10s of 1000s of dollars in their savings account right now. You can make the argument. Well, their back is going to give out in a couple years. And some of that's true. But also, you know, you don't have to be the guy pouring concrete for how long. You could be the business owner, or you could be the guy who's the plumber for 510, years, and then, you know, start your own plumbing business. That's why I don't look at student loans as, like, I need this college degree to, like, make money or be successful. Like, I've met a lot of people who legitimately have that mindset. That's like, I understand that if you've grown up in that sort of, like sphere, you've grown up with those ideas. But to me, it's like, I know if I can't pay for college, or if I don't graduate college, I know I'm going to be fine. I could go, you know, work construction, or I could go, you know, mow lawns or something. I know, I guess I just view it differently. But a lot of people think they need those student loans. So, I mean, they sign up for them. And I looked it up the other day, the average time to pay off student loans is, like, 20 years or something like that. Yeah, I believe it. That is kind of...
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596: Does America Really Have a Housing Shortage?
03/09/2026
596: Does America Really Have a Housing Shortage?
Keith is joined by housing market intelligence authority Rick Sharga—a frequent guest on outlets like CNBC and Bloomberg who “quietly gets it right” rather than chasing clickbait crashes. Together, they dig into whether America really has a housing shortage and how that lines up with what you’re seeing in prices and inventory. They explore why entry-level homes are so constrained and what that means for both investors and homebuyers. They also examine how mortgage rates, builder behavior, and demographic shifts could shape housing demand and investment opportunities over the next several years. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, does America really have a housing shortage? And if so, how long will it last? Those answers and more, with an expert guest and I today on get rich education. Speaker 1 0:19 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:03 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Speaker 2 1:36 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:46 Welcome to GRE from Nantucket, Massachusetts to Pawtucket, Rhode Island and across 188 nations worldwide. America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone has got his slack jawed act back on track for another wealth building week with you. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education. I'm still not wearing a pair of knockers, and I've returned here to bring you more value than your HOA dues. It's kind of crazy that America First put a man on the moon, and we're the first nation to put a man on the moon in 1969 and yet today, we have trouble housing our own people here on Earth. Shortly, we're going deep on does America really have a housing shortage first? Sometimes real estate investors can learn lessons from the stock market about the future direction of housing prices and demand and just simply what assets people have demand for, how AI is disrupting some stock sectors. Has been rather germane lately. One CEO made this perfect example. It's about how two different stocks travel search engine Expedia and Delta Airlines, those two stocks were once closely tied together. Their share prices used to be correlated, but they've gone in separate directions. See, Expedia offers you a service that can be replicated by bots, but delta has actual planes that take you somewhere, and it's hard for AI to replace that. This is why there's been a recent push toward more tangible stocks and tangible assets, a divergence, an attraction to assets that give you a share of either a tangible good, or, in the case of something like an airline, a service that's directly tied to something tangible. And similarly, commodities like gold, silver and copper cannot be replaced by AI. Neither can real estate. There is a growing sense to own things that can't be disrupted, dematerialized and demonetized by AI, like so much software can. In fact, as overall stock market valuations are lofty. You know, some people have become rather wary of an AI speculative bubble that perceptive to this demand. Just a few weeks ago, Goldman Sachs introduced an everything but AI index, yeah, where you can invest in a basket of companies that are sheltered from Ai disruption, this everything but AI index that's attracting investors. In fact, there's another trend that interfaces with real estate that just launched recently too today, you can wager on future homes. Prices through the platform, poly market, yes, place bets for profit or loss on the future direction of the median home price. In fact, one recent college graduate joked, I was born too late to afford a house, and born just in time to gamble on people who can buy a house? Yeah, you're probably familiar with poly market by now. It's the prediction market that lets you speculate on things like elections and Fed rate decisions and various geopolitical events and other real world outcomes. Well, they have launched a set of real estate markets that allow users to bet on future home values. The way it works is that you can wager on future home values in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco and Austin, Texas, as well as US national home values. So that's six different markets. Now I haven't gambled on Poly market, I had checked it at times to get an idea of where people really think markets are headed or what's going to happen next. Because, rather than major media, where sometimes as a hype machine, they create headlines that scare you in order to try to get clicks, well, instead of all that, regular people are placing their money on polymarket, and you can look at what that action is like, because that can be a more reliable harbinger of future price direction at last check with a national median home price of about 420k with the numbers, poly market is using one month from now, 66% of people think that home prices will rise. And it's more nuanced than that. You can bet on just what price range you believe home prices will fall into one month from now. And this is nothing that I recommend wagering on, but besides an interesting trend, yeah, you can get that idea of where real people actually believe markets are headed. As we're about to talk to national housing expert Rick sharga on whether or not we really have a housing shortage, we've got new data about the level of housing permits. Of course, housing permits are a gage of the level of future housing inventory, because after a permit is issued, it's typically six to 12 months until a single family home is built. But I'll share that with you near the end of the show, because it makes sense to cover this with you in chronological order. We'll discuss housing supply first, and then I'll tell you about the future supply direction based on housing permits. Now, you know from the inception of this show in 2014 I talked about the why of real estate investing before the how with anything in life, it's only when you truly know why you're doing something that you'll profoundly care about the how and you'll want to do it well. In fact, when I do an in person real estate presentation, one of the modules that I teach most often is simply called Why real estate. The biggest Why is not altruistic, although that matters, and that's part of it. But instead it's that real estate pays five ways. That's the biggest why any GRE devotee knows that the five ways are simultaneously paid, are appreciation, cash flow, ROA tax benefits, and not inflation hedging. But specifically inflation profiting. Yet I have found multi decade real estate investors that don't understand this, the most valuable hour that you can spend is knowing all the ways that you're paid and seeing and believing how your total rate of return of 20% 30% or even 40% is not far fetched or risky, but it's actually common and even estimated conservatively. If you're initiated on this, you already know, but if you aren't, it can sound a little hard to believe what I just said right there, I recently reshot the entire real estate pays five ways video course, and it's the most valuable hour of investing video content that you're likely ever to see. It's premium, masterclass level content. I'm just giving it away for free because people need to know this. And actually, on the newest shoot, I've condensed it down into just 40 minutes of content across the five videos, one instructional video for each of the five ways you're paid. The videos average eight minutes. So that's about 40 minutes total, and they build on. Each other. So at the end of each one, you get to see your cumulative rate of return. It just keeps adding up, and you know exactly where all of the numbers come from. That's why it's more conducive to video form than audio form. I know that many of you have seen it, but if not, it is foundational, and I cannot recommend it enough. It's free and available to you now. At get richeducation.com/course, get that now, while it's on your mind. At get rich education.com/course, more next, I'm Keith Weinhold, this is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 10:39 Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre. Keith Weinhold 11:16 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 Yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Kathy Fettke 12:27 this is the real wealth network's Kathy betke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold. You Keith Weinhold 12:46 Is America really short millions of homes? If so, that doesn't mean every market is undersupplied, and prices can only go up because of it. If there's a housing shortage, why are prices falling in some cities? So the shortage? Is that something that's real, or is it just misunderstood, and you're gonna learn what it means to you? I'm get rich education's Keith Weinhold along with an intelligence authority today that usually gets it right. In fact, I found an old clip of him on Bloomberg where he suggested home prices bottoming in 2011 and as it turns out, they sure did today, together, we're answering the question, does America really have a housing shortage? And my guest has often appeared in major media, CNBC, Fox NPR. He's the founder of the CJ Patrick company. Hey, welcome back to the show. Rick sharga, Rick Sharga 13:39 good to see you again. Keith, thanks for inviting me. Keith Weinhold 13:41 You know, it's funny. Four years ago, Rick and I found each other, and we sort of checked each other out. I found him to be an authority that just doesn't go on saying this bombastic and absurd stuff just to get attention. Instead, he quietly gets it right, and when he knew I had a real estate YouTube channel, similarly, I resonated, because I'm not one of these people that's constantly saying that housing prices are going to crash just to get views and then those crash. People never follow up when they're wrong, and they've been wrong for about 14 years now. But Rick, rather than prices, we're here to understand if there's really a housing shortage today, most agencies believe we have a shortage. Moody's will tell you 2 million. Zillow, four to 5 million. Congressional Republicans have gone on to say 20 million. I sure don't know about that. And then yet, Rick sometimes at the same time, you do see these conflicting stats, where it says that sellers outnumber buyers today, which sort of flies in the face of a housing shortage. So what is your take amidst all this? Rick Sharga 14:46 Well, Keith, I think what we're seeing is a fairly obvious example that if you torture data enough, you can make it say anything in the right you wanted to say. And there is a lot of confusion about how much. A housing shortage we really do have. It's not like we have 20% of the population unable to find anywhere to live. Most people still prefer to live indoors, and they've been able to do so, but the fact of the matter is that all of the math suggests that we are underserved in terms of the number of housing units available across the country, and we can go through some of the math. The big question, of course, is, how many houses are we short? How many housing units are we short? And the reason the numbers are all over the place, and as you suggested, let's set aside the Republican estimate of 20 million, because there's, there's certainly something political going on there, but the estimates range from around a million to as high as five or 6 million. And the reality is all of those estimates are counting something different. Some are counting housing growth versus population growth. Some are counting vacancy rates compared to historic levels, some are counting inventory available for sale today versus inventory available to sale in prior years. So each of these organizations, and they're all pretty reliable organizations, Moody's is certainly good. Zillow's research team is top notch. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the National Association of Realtors. None of these people are hiring dime store economists. They're all good folks, but they're all measuring something slightly different, which is why these numbers come out all over the place, and the one of the fundamental challenges is trying to figure out housing shortages compared to what, or compared to when. All of these estimates assume that there was some point in history when we had exactly the right number of housing units to suit the needs of the population. So they start with some point in time, and I think if you did enough research, you find they all start at slightly different points in time, and then kind of work their way forward from that and come to very different conclusions, again, based on where they started and where they ended up, and what they count. The one thing I would push back on a little bit from some of your comments in the intro is that I am highly, highly skeptical, extraordinarily skeptical of the reports that talk about how many more sellers we have than buyers, because that makes some wild assumptions about the number of people that are actually interested in buying a house. And I've never seen any research methodology that's really nailed that number accurately. Because nobody knows if you're thinking about buying a house right now, until you go to an open house until you do a search on on Zillow, or realtor.com or homes.com until you actually are applying for a loan or making a deposit. So the notion of being able to mind read three 40 million Americans to figure out how many of them are interested in buying, I think, is a neat trick, but I do think it's at least in part one of those methods that people use to get a lot of clicks to their website Keith Weinhold 18:05 right? This whole thing of and I think when we talk about sellers versus buyers, that's shorthand. What we really mean are, there are some stats out there that show that prospective sellers outnumber prospective buyers, in some cases, which, yeah, I think I agree with you there. I doubt that as well. And yeah, of course, I think you're getting on some of the nuance here. We're trying to predict how some people would behave. For example, how much pent up demand is there when we're talking about sellers versus buyers, and we're talking about a shortage, for example, say, the 28 year old living with their parents that could move out and afford to buy a home if mortgage rates hit 5% like for example, how do you count that? Or, how would you even know to Rick Sharga 18:53 it's a valid point. Keith, and I think that fundamentally, is my question. With that particular report, you really can't count that person. We do have some metrics that we follow, and it's funny, you mentioned that 5% mortgage, because as we record this, mortgages have broken that 6% threshold for the first time in a number of years. And just about every kind of mortgage you could buy right now is below 6% so that's a good thing. And every time we've gotten close to that 6% mark. In recent years, since mortgage rates doubled back in 2022 we've seen a huge influx of people applying for purchase loans, for those mortgage loans to buy a house, those numbers are up somewhere between 13 and 15% year over year right now, and that's before we've really had these mortgage rates dip below 6% so to me, that suggests there really is pent up demand out there, and I judge that just based on what I see in terms of a number of people actively applying for a loan. Keith Weinhold 19:54 Yeah, there's a lot of nuance here. HUD tells us that we have more. Homeless people than we've ever had in this nation. So that's sort of an extreme affordability problem. To your point earlier about how most people want to live indoors, and I'm sure not making light of homelessness. It's a sad situation, but we're always going to have homeless people regardless of whether we have excess housing or a housing shortage. We have about 146 million housing units in the United States. The census shows and suggests that 8 million of those 146 million are housing units where people have doubled up and are sharing space with non relatives. That's one way to think about the level of pent up demand within the shortage, Rick Sharga 20:44 I don't know if that's a result of shortage necessarily, or if that's a result of having the weakest affordability for people looking to buy homes that we've had in over 40 years. The last time affordability was as bad was the 1980s...
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595: Housing Is Shifting — And So Is The American Dream
03/02/2026
595: Housing Is Shifting — And So Is The American Dream
Keith breaks down where the U.S. housing market appears to be headed and which regions and states are quietly winning or losing in the population shuffle since 2020—and what that could mean for real estate investors. You’ll also hear about an intriguing cash-flow play in single-family rentals in select Southern markets. Then, Keith is joined by financial strategist and comedian Garrett Gunderson, who challenges the usual “scrimp and save” advice. Together, they explore how to build real wealth without sacrificing your life today, how high-net-worth individuals often get money wrong, and a different way to think about financial independence, freedom, and investing in yourself. Resources: Get Garrett Gunderson’s Killing Sacred Cows audiobook free: DM on Instagram with the words “Keith Cows.” Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the future direction of the housing market trending up or trending down? Which states have seen the most population growth? Then powerful wealth mindset tactics with a financial comedian today on get rich education Speaker 1 0:20 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and keep top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:04 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Speaker 2 1:38 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:54 Welcome to GRE from Mount Rainier to Mount Rushmore and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. I am not a Lambo driving influencer that will take any brand deal just to shill a gambling platform instead. Our core strategy at GRE is aging. Well, I've spoken with a lot of LP investors with capital calls and deals that lost all their money. Well, we approach wealth building with discipline and consistency. It doesn't sound dazzling, but it really shines when things go wrong elsewhere, because at least for the core of our portfolios, we get long term fixed rate debt for income property get paid five ways and win the inflation triple crown, and we do it all with a high degree of passivity. Right before I took the mic today, I got a two sentence email from a property manager that said an air conditioning unit's air handler board had to be replaced for $420 I don't even know what an air handler board really is. Now, the manager sent some photos in a written estimate. I quickly checked chat GPT, and I saw that the price was about right, and replied to my manager to go ahead and have that done. That's it an example of relative passivity. US residential real estate has nominally appreciated over every single 10 year period in modern history, despite some occasional short term downturns, even those are not common. Well, we recently had a guest mention that it's 20 years at the longest like 20 years or less is the period of time between which real estate never goes down. He was right. But you actually can't find any 10 year period where home values fell. What about the 2008 global financial crisis, I think that's the first place that the mind goes. Well back then, home values bottomed out at 208k in 2009 before they started growing again. And 10 years before that, the median price it was 157k in 1999 so even when home values hit their GFC low at that point, they were still up 32% from the previous 10 years. So you can confidently say then that over any 10 year period, home prices are up nationally. Now, how about the future? Well, for the future, there is more evidence of rising home prices. Building permits for new homes have fallen to their lowest level since 2019 that's according to the census bureau. So fewer single family homes are being built. Now we plan to discuss that more on. Next week show when we dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage? But this week, more reasons for future home price bullishness is that the labor market now, it's not doing that great. It sure isn't white hot, but unemployment, which was already low, that recently dropped a touch lower to just 4.3% inflation has fallen to 2.4% and wages are rising faster than that. In fact, our own Fed Chair recently remarked at how he's surprised at the strength of the economy. The property market analytics firm kotality, they now expect home prices to appreciate another four and a half percent this year. They and other firms continue to believe that the Midwest will be the hottest area of home price growth even more than that four and a half percent in that region. That is because not only is the Midwest underbuilt, it's that the prices are so affordable that it's attracting young people. The other factor is that mortgage rates recently dipped just below six into the high fives again, and that can release this pent up housing demand, and think about where we've come from. In late 2023 mortgage rates were about 8% and now lower mortgage rates also reduce the lock in effect, so it can create both more sellers and more buyers. The thing to remember is that 70% to 80% of home sellers are also home buyers because they've got to live somewhere. And first time homebuyers, of course, they buy only, they don't sell anything. In fact, former GRE guest in housing wire lead analyst Logan modeshami and Barry Habib were just positing on this at housing wire's latest summit on how the volume of home sales has been depressed for so long that lower rates could very well trigger a rush of buyers, these kind of people that have been delaying purchasing for years, this pent up housing demand being released if indeed rates go lower. People think they know the future, but we don't really know that that's going to happen for sure. But a lot of optimism about this phase of the housing market supported by not great, but decent economic conditions. Of course, that new housing demand is going to manifest unevenly across the nation. So let's talk about the places that have seen the most population growth from 2020 to today, basically the states that support that housing demand. Well, between 2020 and today, the US has grown by about 10 million people. That's over 3% nearly every state grew. But the bigger story is where that growth is happening. And really, here's the jaw dropper as a region, the South, gained more people than all of the other regions combined, about 7.6 million new residents in the south since 2020 the South's population is up 6% the West's almost 2% the Midwest population is up more than 1% and The Northeast up seven tenths of 1% again, this is not per year. This is total population growth from 2020 to today, Florida and Texas, they led the nation among the big states, both up almost 9% sprinting like they just found out that income tax is optional. The Carolinas in Tennessee are big southern growers too. People clearly keep moving toward warmer weather, a lower cost of living, lower taxes and job markets. Nothing new there. California in New York are the biggest losers in absolute numbers, California losing half of 1% of population in New York, a full 1% people keep moving away from these traditionally expensive, high tax coastal states like a buffet when the crab legs run out, people just getting up and leaving. That's not any sort of news story there, either. These trends help cash flow residential real estate investors like us, because the south aligns with that favorable landlord tenant law and those high ratios of rent income to purchase price. Luckily for us, that's where people are moving too. The Midwest has those phenomena as well, although their growth has been slower. Keith Weinhold 9:39 Now a few Midwest highlights for you. Since 2020 the population of Indiana is up 2.8% quietly benefiting from Illinois. Escape Velocity, Missouri up almost 2% and that's growing mostly in Kansas City and St Louis suburbs. Ohio at almost 1% that's pretty modest growth overall, but Columbus up 5% that is flexing like it just landed a semiconductor plant there in Columbus, the intermountain west has bicep bulging growth, but it rarely works for us, because rents are only a little higher, but property prices are way higher. Yes, those pretty Rocky Mountain states, great Instagram, tough cash flow now Louisiana, it is a state that confounds people. It's a warm place, and it has a low cost of living, you would think Louisiana would be attracting people in droves for those reasons. Well, then why is its population following Louisiana down nine tenths of 1% since 2020 Well, you've got bleak job prospects that make Louisianans leave its tax competitiveness ranks 31st property insurance costs are high thanks to environmental risk. Louisiana has more swamps than beaches. Even the NFL saints were six and 11, and if they had made the playoffs, that wouldn't have made people move back. And hey, no personal shade here, I enjoy going to the New Orleans investment conference in Cajun culture, in Airboat Tours through the alligator filled Bayou, fun stuff, but for income producing property, you got to seek out different characteristics than just vacation Glee or how Good the gumbo tastes keep emotion separate from investing, Hawaii is America's biggest percentage loser. Its population is down one and a half percent since 2020 its cost of living is stratospherically high, with a median home value of just a little over a million dollars. That results in net outmigration to the mainland parts of the Aloha state now experience natural decrease. That means that deaths exceed births. Natural decrease. That's mostly a phenomenon on the Big Island. That's not where Honolulu is. That's where you have Kona and Hilo when young people can't afford to stay demographic gravity kicks in population loss. Hawaii is also highly dependent on tourism, meaning more volatility in recessions. It has contractor availability issues and higher repair costs, partly due to shipping materials to the remote islands. What about the upsides of Hawaiian real estate? Well, you're just going to have this inherent, strong, long term land scarcity and lifestyle desirability overall. Hawaii isn't bad. It's just hard. And I like Hawaii as a place to vacation, so the best times in my life were in Hawaii. Now, with all this said, These are broad generalities about states which are big places themselves right now. There are certainly Missouri real estate investors listening to me that are actually losing, and Hawaii real estate investors that are winning, and even cash flow positive. I'm talking general trends here, and this is with respect to long term rentals, not short term rentals. If your rent to price ratio is as low as point three or point four, like it often is near the coasts, well then you are speculating on appreciation. That's what that means. All 50 states have opportunity. All 50 states have no go zones. People keep moving south. That's a trend that the pandemic accelerated six years ago. More opportunity is concentrated there. That's got nothing to do with vacation excitement. That is population math, and I'm talking about swimming with the tide here in our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter I recently sent you that colorful population change map that I was describing some of there. More recently, I also emailed you that great and rare map of landlord friendly versus tenant friendly states mapped out and a lot of other great stuff. Keith Weinhold 14:17 Before we bring in our firebrand guest, Garrett Gunderson, I just learned about a really strong opportunity for a provider of single family rentals and duplexes in Memphis and Little Rock. They're providing a locked in 5% interest rate and 5% property management for five years. Yeah, that's not a throwback to 2020 it's what mid south homebuyers calls their triple five program. They are the oldest and most trusted, maybe turnkey investment provider in the country, operating since 2002 and what they do is they offer these fully renovated, occupied rental properties in Memphis and Little Rock, two of the strongest cash flow markets in the South. With financing and management and rates that make the math work like it hasn't in years. So again, 5% interest, 5% property management fees for a full five years. You know those markets, they already had these investor advantage numbers with rent to price ratios mere point eight in Memphis and Little Rock. But yeah, that low 5% mortgage rate, even for renovated properties, not just new build. That's the kind of spread that turns a good deal into a great one. So to give you an idea, if you get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage loan amount of 125k with a 7% mortgage rate, your principal and interest payment is 832, at a 5% rate, it's just 671, so that's $160 more cash flow right there, and it's made a tad sweetener than that with just a 5% Property Management rate. And I don't know how long that offer is going to last, but it is available now and for the next little while, you can ask about it. When you visit mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com and you can ask them about their triple five program. More next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 595, of get rich education. Keith Weinhold 16:19 Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre. You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 Yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Dani-Lynn Robison 18:08 this is freedom family investments. Co founder, Danny Lynn Robinson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Brenda. Keith Weinhold 18:24 Today's guest is someone that America knows as the long haired, bearded money guy in the past, he's drawn physical appearance comparisons to Jesus Christ. He's a prominent financial strategist. Founded an eight figure company, hit the Inc 500 he's both a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. He is just an electric speaker, including appearances in front of dozens of billionaires. And he's just got this great way of speaking to financial freedom that hits you differently. He even has a comedy special that's great to welcome back to the show. Garrett Gunderson, Garrett Gunderson 19:02 that's good to be back. Man. Is really good. Love your energy. Has a nice intro. Keith Weinhold 19:07 Well, you give a lot of like, nice guidance to people that's somewhat different than they're used to hearing. You know, Garrett, I think a lot of the conventional guidance is, you know, it's not very far above Elementary School advice like, put your credit card in the freezer so you don't use it too often, but a lot of times you speak to either business owners or people that have already had some success, and I think a lot of your underlying mantra is, hey, you better live your best life now Garrett Gunderson 19:35 I kind of feel like you are your greatest asset, and if you starve out that asset because you don't feed it with knowledge, or you don't invest in yourself, or you don't gain the skills that really matter because you're so addicted to scrimping and sacrificing and building your balance sheet right, trying to build savings accounts and retirement plans and doing all you can to pay off that mortgage. Yeah, you could become a millionaire on paper. But will you live like one? Will you enjoy your. Life. What about all the memories that you miss along the way? What about having quality of life today and creating a life you don't want to retire from? The wealthy people, they didn't get that way because they shrunk their way there. They didn't get that way because they were amazing budgeters. They built businesses. They created value. They learned how to, you know, sell or speak or market or have business acumen that grow business or to hire people, and having those systems that actually impact more people or more deeply impact the people that they serve, because it's about value creation and their value creators. And I think this notion of just thinking, Oh, I could just trade time for money and set money aside. Man, that's a really painful way to get to a million dollars, but Northwestern Mutual, they just put out an article that said, 32 or 34% of millionaires don't feel wealthy, because if you have money tied up in an account that isn't kicking off cash flow, it doesn't feel like wealth. You can't spend that net worth. It's just a statement if you don't learn how to create cash flow. And I love financial independence, where people have cash flow from assets to cover their expenses now their...
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594: Apartment Values Down 20% to 40%: What Happens Next?
02/23/2026
594: Apartment Values Down 20% to 40%: What Happens Next?
Keith digs into what’s really going on with apartments now that values in many markets have dropped 20–40%. You’ll hear why larger multifamily properties have been hit so much harder than one-to-four unit rentals, and what that means for both current owners and new buyers. “The Apartment King,” Brad Sumrok, joins the conversation to share how recent economic shifts, financing structures, and market forces have reshaped the apartment landscape—and why he believes we may be near a key turning point in the cycle. You’ll also learn how investors are approaching deals differently today, what makes certain markets and property types more attractive right now. Resources: Learn more about Brad . Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold us. Apartment Building values have fallen 2030, even, 40% over the past few years. Investors lost millions. What are all the reasons that it happened? And when will apartments turn around? I'm joined by the apartment king today on get rich education. Corey Coates 0:26 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold, writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:09 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com you Corey Coates 1:40 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:59 Welcome to GRE from Monterrey, California to Monterrey, Mexico and across 188 nations worldwide. America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone has got his slack. John, act back on track for another wealth building week with you. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education, and I'm still not wearing a pair of Dockers. We all know that the one to four unit space single family homes, up to four plexes have held under their values despite soured affordability, but five plus unit apartment buildings are a drastically different story. We're going to talk about just how much value they've lost recently, and the reasons why it's about more than just the interest rates doubling and tripling that began in 2022 Today's guest is an apartment educator. His students have had both losses and wins over time. I'll ask about both, because adversity is where you get the lessons now today, you might buy an apartment building at a steep discount compared to what it sold for five years ago. And who might you buy an apartment from today, it might not be the type of seller that you're thinking about because of owners defaulting you might now be buying it from a bank that had to basically repossess it. Yeah, you might try to buy it from a lender at 60% of the loan amount. Well, a lender doesn't want to do a 40% write down, so they're going to try to get more and see. That's how this could practically look today for an apartment owner that survived the crisis and is still standing today. They're asking themselves, now, why would I sell at a discount if I don't have to? So they're probably going to try to hold on. And then, of course, the tenants in these apartments don't know that any of this is going on now. I own a lot of single family rental homes myself, also apartment buildings in the one to one and a half million dollar range is where I've played, and often that ends up being eight to 12 units, because in that space, I don't need partners to invest in assets of that size. One to $2 million is also small enough so that you're not competing with institutional money and other players. Today, I'll tell you what I did with some of those buildings myself when interest rates reset about four years ago, and before you and I wrap up the show today, I've got something to tell you about what's coming in future. GRE episodes here stuff that's really unexpected as the apartment King waits in the wings. One last thing to tell you about, like I mentioned to you recently, investors say that they want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Once certainty arrives, the opportunity. Is gone. Keith Weinhold 5:01 Our GRE live event last Thursday was a success. It is about how central Florida is the most compelling housing market right now, with the builder offering rate buy downs as low as 3.75% and, you know, I just ran the numbers on something, and I can hardly believe this. All right, right. Now owner occupied mortgage rates are near 6% this means investment property rates are almost 7% with the rate by down to 4% here's how your cash flow looks with a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on a 300k loan with a 7% rate, your p and i payment is 1996 at a 4% rate. It's just 1432, this is a reduction of $564 per month, a whopping payment difference. That's really the difference between treading water and stacking cash flow on these brand new build properties that we're talking about here in Central Florida. So talking about opportunity and certainty, that is a big measure of both. Yeah, before I ran the numbers, I didn't realize that the spread was this wide. With high demand for these properties, the builder does have some more available, a long term fixed rate of around 4% it should be up for you now you can see the limited time replay of GRE, freshest live event at grewebinars.com, in case you want to look into This again, grewebinars.com let's discuss the apartment market. Foreign apartment building values have fallen at 20% 30% even 40% over the past few years, depending on the market that they're in today, we're going to learn how bad it is, why it happened, and if that actually creates an opportunity here in the late 2020s, decade, our guest is known as the apartment king. He is the number one nationally known educator and mentor for apartment investing. He started with a bang in 2002 by making his first ever real estate investment, not a four Plex like I did, but a 32 unit apartment building, and he's now owned and invested in over 11,000 units and over 1 billion in assets under management. He's received awards like the naa independent owner of the year, and he's the star of the massively popular in person events that he puts on, which you'll learn about soon. Hey, it's been several years. Welcome back to the show. Brad sumrock, Brad Sumrok 7:46 hey, Keith. It's really good to be on again. Nice to be here. Keith Weinhold 7:50 Brad and I were together in person last month, and we also talked physical fitness. Then Brad is one of the fittest guys you'll ever meet in person. He just looks fantastic. We want to hear about your apartment forecast shortly. Brad, let's talk about the hard stuff. First, you've endured adversity since we last had you here several years ago. Tell us about that. Brad Sumrok 8:14 Well, look, I mean, I think anyone that's been serious about investing in apartments over the last five years. And I'll also say it this way, anyone who did a deal and say 21 the middle of 21 till probably the end of 2022 it's very likely that that property is worth less today than than it was when we bought it. So that, in itself, has created, you know, adversity, because I got into the business in 2002 and the market went up until 2008 and we went through a downturn in 2008 nine and 10, as is, I'm sure you're aware. And then the market went up again until around 2021, mid year. And then, due to so many reasons, and I could go into those reasons, but let me just just cut to the chase. That you alluded to is we had another downturn, and so the downturn, you know, impacts property values, it impacts confidence, it impacts investor appetite to do deals. It impacts just about everything related to the business, on the investment side, and the other business that I'm in, which is the seminars, the events and the mentoring. So it's been a big downturn, and we could go into those, you know, into the reasons why, and I'm sure you'd like to know my take on that. But now is a great time, because things are recovering, and one of the things Tony Robbins teaches Keith is pattern recognition. It's like I've been through two downturns, and I could see the patterns, and it occurs to me that we're at or near the bottom of a cycle. So like it's also a good time to be gearing up. Keith Weinhold 9:50 Now, many realize but for those uninitiated on this, the one to four unit space really didn't feel much pain starting in 2022 so much of that is time. Two people get long term fixed interest rate debt on the one to four unit property, but it's shorter term debt on five plus unit apartment buildings. So when interest rates went up, people soon had to pay those higher rates. They were underwater. That's really the genesis of so much of the apartment building pain. Brad Sumrok 10:19 Well, and I would say, look, it was, I'm going to throw a bunch of things at you here. So we had the pandemic, right? And during the pandemic, people got paid to stay home from work, right? The government printed, what, $5 trillion worth of money, right? And so that kicked off what became a period of, like, very high inflation. And you know, the published number was 9% but I think a lot of people experience certain items that were a lot more than 9% like, for example, for sure, in 2022 when we bought a 286 unit property, you know, we were able to replace all the appliances inside of a unit in The kitchen, you know, for $1,800 and even today it's like $3,200 so that's a little bit more than 9% and so we had that. So we had the printing of money, we had inflation, we had variable rate debt. Why did people do variable rate debt? The first thing I'll say is there is a place for variable rate debt. But what happened in 2021 and 2022 is the fixed rate lenders, which are typically the government sponsored agencies Fannie and Freddie. They were still lending money, but because of their criteria for lending, if you would go with one of those loans, you would get like 50% leverage the shorter term lenders that would give you the three year loans, you can still get like 75 to 80% leverage. So the vast amount of people that were buying anything in 2021 and 2022 I mean, I'm not just talking about myself. I'm talking about people with 2030, 4050, 70,000 doors all over the country, they were buying with short term debt. And historically, short term debt performs at or better than long term debt. I mean, think about it, when you get a long term, 10 year fixed rate loan and multifamily you have prepayment penalties. You know, when the market's constantly going up like it did, from 2012 to 2022 you could get that fixed term loan. You could pay it off early, you could pay the seven figure prepayment penalty, and you could still make lots and lots of money, and that's what people were doing. So when you bake in the prepayment penalties on long term debt, you know short term debt is oftentimes the better option. Well, nobody saw the Fed raising rate 16 times in 12 months. And look, I don't care what anybody says, Nobody predicted it. If they had predicted it, they would be probably the richest person in the world right now, right nobody saw a comment like, there may have been some people that said, hey, yeah, this is going to happen, or this is going to happen. But what actually happened with the Fed rates over a very short period of time was unprecedented. Unprecedented means it never happened before. So it's not something you could anticipate or something anyone can model. Okay? And so what that did is most of us had what's called an interest rate cap, which is an insurance policy that if the rates go up too much, that yours is capped. But the problem with those rate caps is they're only good for like, two years, right? So we're buying these deals in 2021 and we're getting short term debt, which is a three year debt. And in two years, in 2023 the rate cap expires, and now the rates are 9% instead of 3% and when we bought the deal, the rate cap insurance was $40,000 and now it's a million dollars. And so you're in a very awkward, unfriendly financial situation. And it wasn't just that. So it wasn't just inflation, it wasn't just interest rates. And many of us sung belt markets, specifically Texas and Florida, which historically have been some of the best markets to invest in, because of migration and no taxes, and then landlord and business friendly environments. Well, these states also suffered a lot of named storms, with, you know, hurricanes and wind storms and hail storms and so in these markets, at the same time, we had rising rates. At the same time, we had massive inflation. Now we also have insurance rates doubling or even tripling in some occasions. And then the final thing was, during the pandemic, a lot of the multifamily projects that were in the middle of being built, these development projects, they all slowed down. People couldn't work. And so back in 2020, or after we're fully recovered from the pandemic, some of these markets, like Nashville and Austin and Dallas and Houston and Phoenix, they got deluged Keith with new supply coming on, like a disproportionate amount of new supply. So there's like five. Five things that contributed to multifamily being really tough in the last few years. And so it wasn't just people with short term debt that had challenges. It was probably just about anybody that bought a deal within an 18 month timeframe that I outlined before that just really experienced challenges, and some of those people are still in deals, right? And so let's just take a deal that's, you know, a $10 million deal with a $7 million loan. Well, that deal right now might be only worth 7 million, yeah, and that's the opportunity. So the owner that has that deal may get punched in the face, so to speak, you know, by the market, and they may lose their equity in that deal, but the borrower coming in, or the buyer coming in, like one of my mentees right now, had a deal that was listed at 11 million, and he's picking it up for seven, which is, like, at or below the current loan value. So one buyer group's loss is the new buyer group's opportunity, if that makes sense Keith Weinhold 16:03 right? 100% there's nothing unusual at all about the mortgage rate levels that began to go higher about four years ago. The unusual part, and Brad has touched on it, is the rate of increase, with mortgage rates doubling or tripling in a short period of time, within about a year or so, but yeah, it's a great point. It's about more than the mortgage rates. It's about increasing insurance costs and increasing expenses of all types, like you talked about with the appliances there, and then, even if you were able to weather all that as an apartment building owner, with all of the supply coming on to the market, when supply exceeds demand, we know what happens to price, and we also know that you can't raise rents very much with all of this supply coming on the market, but the supply of new apartment buildings, that inflow, that wave, is beginning to die down, because builders got the memo quite a while ago that they need to stop building at such a fast pace in places like Florida and Texas and you know, Brad, there are a lot of asset classes that have been beaten up lately. We can always point to a few. You can look at Bitcoin or nfts or even commercial office space. Now those assets might bounce back, but they don't have to, because no human needs those things. But I expect apartments to bounce back because having a place to live is a primordial Maslow and human need. It's almost inevitable. In fact, shelter is at the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So a bounce back has almost got to happen. Yeah. Brad Sumrok 17:46 Look, it's becoming the big word right now in politics. Right is affordability. And so when you look at affordability, if you take a median priced home in this country of say, $400,000 I don't know if that's the actual median, but maybe it's around 400 420,000 100, $420,000 yes, to buy that home. And who's going to buy a $420,000 home? It's going to be a working class family making 60 to 70,000 a year, right? They could rent a median priced apartment unit for $1,800 a month, or they could pay a 20% or a 10% down payment on a $400,000 homes, and they need 40 to 80,000 down right, or maybe less, but they still need a down payment and that p i, t i, the principal, interest, tax and insurance is going to be around $3,100 okay, so there's a $1,300 per month gap, and that's a big, big gap for that working class family. And so where are they going to live? Like we're becoming more and more of a renter nation? Keith, and the statistics that I read say that only 27% of American families can even qualify to get a mortgage, yeah, on a $400,000 home. So we're becoming more and more and more of a nation of renters by necessity. And so the demographics like look, all markets are not equal. You got to know what's going on in your market. But there are markets, ie locations, geographies that have even a higher affordability gap. You know, some markets have a 2000 a month or a $2,500 a month affordability gap. So you're going to find more and more people renting in these markets. Keith Weinhold 19:37 Yes, there is a premium to ownership opening up that gap, and that's why we have this wave of renters that's really already begun. In about the last year, the American homeownership rate has fallen from 66% to 65% 1% doesn't sound like much, but that already means that we have 1.3 million new renters. We're going to talk to Brad some more, including about. His apartment market forecast you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is apartment King. Brad sumrock, more when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, Keith Weinhold 20:09 flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or...
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593: Delayed Gratification Becomes Denied Gratification
02/16/2026
593: Delayed Gratification Becomes Denied Gratification
Keith explores how a shift in mindset can change the way you build wealth, why so many new landlords are entering the market, and what recent economic trends could mean for future rents. You’ll also hear how one Florida investor is navigating a changing housing landscape, and learn about a timely opportunity in one of the country’s fastest‑growing real estate markets—all without needing to be a hands-on landlord. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. There's a new wave of landlords. Wages are rising faster than both inflation and home prices. Learn what that's going to mean for rents. Hear the voices of five different Federal Reserve chairs, then GRE announces our biggest event of the year, and you're invited today on get rich education. Corey Coates 0:32 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:16 mid south home buyers, with over two decades is the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com Corey Coates 2:19 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 2:35 Welcome to GRE from the Adriatic Sea to the Atlantic Ocean and across 188 nations worldwide, I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Sometimes we all need a mindset reset, and this can include me. Sometimes. James clear, the author of atomic habits, says there are four types of wealth, financial wealth, which is money, social wealth, which is status, time, wealth which is freedom, and physical wealth, which is health. Be wary of jobs that seduce you with one and two but rob you of three and four. That is to say, be careful with jobs that seduce you with financial and social wealth but rob you of time and physical wealth that is definitely going to happen to you during your life, especially early in your working career. But many people, even most people, they don't do much about this. They just go on and on, selling their soul to their employer for decades. Sometimes paychecks aren't compensation. They're a bribe from an employer to give up your dreams early in your career, delayed gratification actually makes some sense, because you need capital formation, you need down payments, you need dry powder. That is totally fair and the time in your life for delayed gratification. But there's a point that most people miss, the point where delayed gratification quietly mutates into denied gratification. This is huge. Most people miss this inflection point. When is this point in your life? That's when I'll do it later becomes, well, I guess I never did it at all. They look up at what they've got at age 65 and realize that they have a respectable title. They still wear Dockers pants. They have a 401, K that they must start paying tax on, and knees that creak louder than. The front door. Compound Interest hardly outpaces taxes and inflation. That's just going to keep you in one spot, you know, and you're never going to get that time back. There is no do over there. So you need to get to the point where you can be more frugal with your time than your money. Younger people have a harder time adopting this mindset, and that's a little natural, because they have more time and less money. Sooner than later, you must desperately get financially free so that you can simply be your self workaholics, optimize income instead of assets, and you can't let that happen, because labor does not compound and capital does compound, your quality of life will exceed your cost of living when your life is funded by what you own, not by what you do that takes a different mindset. You can either be a conformer or you can build wealth when you invest in real estate that pays five ways. It's like what you're doing is buying future Tuesdays, where you never have to work again and then later, add on future Wednesdays, where you never have to work again because you got the compound leverage instead of the impotent compound interest. I mean, just consider your two and a half million dollar portfolio that is passively doing the same work as someone who sells 40 to 50 hours a week of their life away for 100k in yearly salary. All right, maybe you're thinking, Oh, that all sounds thought provoking, but if you're not engaged on that, it can sound airy and philosophical and even risky. It's sort of like, yeah, you're cueing the acoustic guitar music and slow motion images of someone pensively gazing at a sunset. Keith Weinhold 7:12 All right, what is the concrete plan? It's not all about mindset. It only starts with mindset. You got to make that actionable. Well, we constantly provide concrete plans for you here on this show, and I've got another concrete plan for you toward the end of the show today. This harkens back to what I discussed with you seven weeks ago, seven episodes ago on the show. That's when I discussed the world's first billionaire, John D Rockefeller and his enduring quote from about 100 years ago, he who works all day has no time to make money. Yeah, that's the quote a little review. What you learned seven episodes ago is that Rockefeller meant, if you spend your life doing tasks, you're never going to rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. The bottom line here is that earning a living is a distinctly different activity than building wealth. That's what we're talking about here. Keith Weinhold 8:14 Well, there is a new wave of landlords entering the market, and they are reshaping what owning rentals looks like. One survey by rental platform avail of nearly 2000 users. It's really influential. It found that 53% of landlords became landlords in the last five years. So you have a lot of new landlords with the most 17% of landlords entering the market in just the last year, most purchased a property specifically to rent it out, and 1/3 sort of backed into this business by renting out their former residence. Of course, some people want to rent out their former residence today, if they got locked into that sexy owner occupied three and 4% financing from 2022 and earlier, the survey went on to tell us with some really good takeaways here, 72% of landlords manage between one and four units, and this avail survey. I mean, it's just another one that shows that the majority of landlords operate small portfolios, classic mom and pop investors. That one's not too surprising. The top three reasons that landlords gave for entering the rental market, they're pretty interesting. The number one reason for getting into this at 41% of respondents is building long term wealth. Next 33% for generating passive income, and the third most popular one, it's a distant third, it is preparing for retirement at 13% so building long term wealth is the number one reason for getting into this, and that is the right reason. Them when it comes to ownership structure, 64% said that they own the property individually, whether that's through a single member LLC or in their own name, doing it, yeah, individually, rather than with a family member or a business partner. So really, the summary of this terrific, recent avail landlord survey is that if you're just getting started, you're not alone. A lot of people are most own properties solely in their own name, and the number one reason for doing it is to build long term wealth. Now there's another pervasive set of economic trends out there in the broader economy, but it's really a benefit for real estate investors, and that is the fact that wage growth has now outpaced consumer price growth for three years. Yeah, another way to say that is that wage growth has outpaced inflation for fully three years. Yeah, most people just aren't feeling it yet. So you might be taken somewhat aback by that, and why aren't people feeling that wage growth is faster than inflation, the pandemic inflation spike that was so huge, it was like getting hit with a freight train, and then someone tells you, good news, the train has stopped. Yeah, that's nice. You are still lying on the tracks, rubbing your ribs. That's because we're all still absorbing spiked prices for everything from a lumber two by four to a York Peppermint Patty, year over year, wages are up 3.8% and consumer inflation is 3% All right, so wages above inflation, that means things are getting a little more affordable, but both wages and inflation have grown faster than home prices, which have only grown about one and a half percent, and this is all per the BLS in the FHFA, so wage growth Being more than double home price growth. Well, that trend really makes properties more affordable, but historically, they're still not that affordable. Everybody knows that home prices soared until about 2023 that was the turning point, and now wages are in their catch up phase. All right, but what really matters to real estate investors is, when will this wage growth translate to rent growth, historically, big rent growth that lags big home price growth by about two to four years. So you have the big home price growth, big rent growth hits two to four years later, historically. Now, if that holds true, we should finally see substantial rent growth this year or next year. Rent growth has still been pretty soft in the one to four unit space, and even there are rent decreases in the overbuilt apartment space. Future income growth promises to make homes more affordable. Affordability has already improved, with mortgage rates hovering near three year lows. There's one problem, though, that most people overlook, and that is this wage growth has been skewed toward the higher income deciles, renters, especially workforce renters, they don't feel it until later. So this 3.8% wage growth, it's heavier for higher income people, and it's lighter for lower income people. I swear, when there are enriching economic trends, it always hits the higher income people first, and it doesn't trickle down until later. So if you as an investor, are positioned before the rent wave hits, you are surfing, and if you wait to feel it, you're swimming behind the boat. Higher wages should translate to higher rents in the next one to two years. And as far as some other forces, as we all know, the man occupying the oval office in the White House, the President, he wants lower rates. The current Fed Chair isn't so willing to do that. The next one, the one he appointed, Kevin Warsh, who arrives in May. He seems more receptive to lower rates, but it's gonna take a while. It all moves so slow. We have had 16 fed chairs before worsh over 112 years. And look how much of an econ nerd Are you? Are you as bad as me? These voices are in chronological order, and I can name each speaker. Corey Coates 14:47 You're going to have to live with the fact that forecasts have a range of uncertainty, irrational exuberance. Corey Coates 14:54 In my opening remarks, I'd like to briefly first review today's policy decision, but Corey Coates 14:58 first I'll review recent. Economic developments in the Outlook, and we are well positioned to wait to see how the economy evolves. Keith Weinhold 15:06 If you can name each of those speakers, I would love to give you a free property from gremarketplace.com but I can't quite swing that in order. Those voices are Paul Volcker. He served from 1979 to 87 he was known for crushing double digit inflation by jacking rates to near 20% it was painful medicine, but it worked the next one. Alan Greenspan sir, from 1987 to 2006 that was a long reign, almost 20 years. He oversaw the 90s economic boom, the.com bubble and the early housing bubble. Years so far, Greenspan is the only Fed chair that I have met in person. Then Ben Bernanke, he was the Fed chair from 2006 to 2014 he took the helm right before the 2008 financial crisis. He rolled out QE and emergency lending on an historic scale. In fact, he was nicknamed helicopter Ben because it's like he would print so much money that he just dropped it out of huge sacks, dollar bills in huge sacks, dropping them from an airplane, metaphorically, not literally. Then Janet Yellen, 2014 to 2018 she kind of continued this post crisis normalization, and she was the first woman to chair the Fed and then, of course, Jerome Powell serving from 2018 to 2026 he navigated the covid stimulus, ultra low rates. And then after that, the fastest rate hiking cycle in decades to fight inflation back in 2022 being the Fed chair is the most important job in this economy, and over the decades, there's been more of a movement of the fed into the public eye. You just hear about them more in the media than you used to. But like I touched on last week, it just still doesn't mean as much to real estate investors as a lot of people think, people sometimes look for someone else to come save them, but it's more about you and the choices that you make that's what means more housing supply and demand means more real estate investors have profited during every one of those Fed Chair reigns, which go back almost 50 years from Volcker to today, I think everybody knows that fed chairs don't control property prices, and they don't even control long term interest rates. What's a little paradoxical is that Trump has been vocal about how he wants more affordable home prices, yet at the same time he wants existing homeowners to have their home prices go up, those two things seem to be in tension. They're in conflict with each other. The only way you can possibly get both are through lower mortgage rates. But is he going to see later today you as a GRE follower, you don't have to wait for lower rates income, property still feels less affordable than it did five years ago, because it is that's real but here's the key distinction in what makes real estate investors different from owner occupied homeowners. Affordability isn't about the price of the property, it's about whether the property pays for itself and grows your net worth while inflation does the heavy lifting. Higher prices don't kill investors. Inaction during inflation does you're not buying a say, $350,000 property. You're controlling it with $70,000 while your tenant and inflation do the rest. We do not rely on hope or appreciation. We start with income tax benefits and debt pay down and then leverage appreciation typically happens as well. GRE only succeeds when investors close on properties that perform long term. One bad referral costs us years of trust, so we don't do that. The best question for you really isn't whether property is affordable. The question is whether owning an investment property is better than inflation compounding against you. That's the investor lens today. Keith Weinhold 19:24 coming up next week on the show here, we're going to discuss apartments. It's been a truly be leaguered sector, where their prices have fallen 2030, and 40% in many markets. We've discussed apartments here on the show a lot before, like with Grant Cardone on episode 264, with Ken McElroy, countless times with me monologuing about apartments. And next week, we're going to talk to a multifamily educator who is known as the apartment King. Later on, a future show, we've got the return of the financial. Firebrand, and lately, the financial comedian Garrett Gunderson, a powerful speaker. That's definitely going to be interesting. As for today, you'll hear a first person account from a Florida resident about why he's moved to Florida and why he invests there. You've heard of this guy before. That's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 593, of get rich education. Keith Weinhold 20:26 Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/G. R, E, Keith Weinhold 21:02 you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 22:13 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in...
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592: Mortgages at 3.75%? Builders are Slashing Rates for Investors
02/09/2026
592: Mortgages at 3.75%? Builders are Slashing Rates for Investors
Keith looks at how a changing Federal Reserve leadership might shape the interest rate environment, then zooms in on what’s really happening with homebuilders versus remodelers across the country. You’ll hear about a lesser-known strategy some investors are using to step back from day-to-day landlording while keeping their income, and then we head to Central Florida to explore why one fast-growing market is quietly becoming a hotspot for new-build rental properties. Along the way, a longtime Florida builder joins the show to explain how they’re creating affordable, investment-friendly homes and what kinds of rents and tenant demand they’re seeing on the ground—plus a way you can learn more live if this opportunity fits your own portfolio plans. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the naming of a new Federal Reserve Chair. Then are homebuilders in trouble today? There are a dwindling number of them, and their profits are down. I'll talk to a homebuilder. Listen to what amenities tenants want today, and it's interesting. We'll learn how low of a mortgage rate builders will give you. Now there's an opportunity here today on get rich education. Corey Coates 0:30 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Keith Weinhold 1:14 mid south home buyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com Speaker 1 2:17 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 2:33 Welcome to GRE from countersport Pennsylvania to Davenport Iowa and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education now more than ever, where you learn about personal finance and real estate investing matters. There's more AI generated content out there. This show is all flesh and blood me. There's also more clickbait content out there that says something like the housing market is about to have a price crash. No, it's not. They're just there to get short term attention. So your information source really matters today. New incoming Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, was recently named. He will replace the outgoing Jerome Powell on May 15. I want to tell you more about that in a moment. But first, just imagine if this scenario were to occur, say that we get a Fed chair that has to deal with really high inflation. And so what this Fed chair does is that he successfully brings inflation down, and he does that without triggering a recession that's called a soft landing. Well, you know what? That's exactly what Jerome Powell did the past three years. Yeah, that's what he's accomplished, and he doesn't get credit for it. He only gets a lot of criticism. Now this doesn't mean that I love Powell. I don't even know that the Fed should exist at all, but Powell got a lot of criticism for calling 2022, wave of inflation transitory, and being too late to respond to it. So he gets some credit here as his term of more than eight years winds down. Let's listen in to some of Jay Powell's recent comments about succession, Speaker 2 4:23 you've obviously experienced a lot during your time as Fed chair, served under multiple presidents. I'm wondering what advice you have for whoever your successor might be. Speaker 3 4:34 Honestly, I'd say a couple of things. One is, you know, stay out of elected politics. Don't get pulled into elected politics don't do it. And that's another thing. Another is that you know, our window into democratic accountability is Congress, and it's not a passive burden for us to go. To Congress and talk to people. It's an affirmative, regular obligation. If you want democratic legitimacy, you earn it by your interactions with the our elected overseers. And so it's something you need to work hard at, and I have worked hard at it so and the last thing is, you know, it's easy to it's easy to criticize government institutions so many ways. I will tell whoever it is you're about to meet the most qualified group of people you not only have ever worked with, you will ever work with and when you meet fed staff. And not everybody's perfect, but, but there isn't a better cadre of professionals more dedicated to the public well being than work at the Fed. Keith Weinhold 5:43 Yeah. So to Powell's point, the next Fed chair, worsh, does champion fed independence, much like Powell has. That is a good thing that keeps America from turning into a banana republic that maintains a strong dollar. Warsh was actually a Fed Governor back during the 2008 global financial crisis, so he's got that experience when he comes in as Fed Chair in three months, he's widely expected to lower interest rates more than Powell did, much like the president wants. Kevin Warsh looks a lot like Michael Scott from the office. He has got to be less bumbling than him, though, overall, the effect on real estate and mortgage rates by shifting from PAL to worsh, I mean, that should be pretty mild. Maybe you'll see rates go a little lower than if pal had stayed and speaking of rates, wait till you see how low the mortgage rate is that our homebuilder guest is offering today. What's really happening with homebuilders now? How much trouble are they in? Homebuilders have largely been maligned. Overall. There are fewer homebuilders today in America than there were 20 years ago, and there are more remodelers than there were 20 years ago, fewer home builders, more remodelers, and that's for a few different reasons. Over the past couple decades, we just have substantially higher labor and material costs, stricter building and energy codes, higher interest rates, and that disproportionately hurts long duration construction projects. We've got zoning constraints and land constraints that make ground up development slow and uncertain and risky. So while the number of Home Builders in America is down, the number of remodelers are up, because America's housing stock is getting older. Its median age is over 40 years, and that creates constant demand for upgrades. Capital prefers faster, lower risk cycles. That's what remodels offer, and homeowners with locked in low mortgage rates choose to stay in place. And what does that make them do? That makes them renovate and remodel, not move. So this is why, compared to 20 years ago, you have fewer home builders and more remodelers. Today, that's per the NAHB and the Census Bureau and all these forces, they've resulted in a lower profit margin for homebuilders. Yes, homebuilder margin compression for a lot of the bigger builders, including DR Horton, just as you might guess in this cycle, their profits were greatest in 2022 and they have fallen since then. Higher mortgage rates came in, and builders had to lose profits by offering more incentives to entice buyers. You're going to learn more about that today and how it really spells quite an opportunity for you and I. When the final change in national home prices was tallied for the end of last year, they had risen in 16,500 zip codes. All right, that's 63% of America's zip codes, and prices were lower from a year earlier in the other 37% home price gains were concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, and the story there continues to be too many buyers and not enough homes. In fact, over 85% of zip codes saw price growth in Illinois, Connecticut, Wisconsin and Indiana, slow, steady, stubborn, kind of like winter refusing to leave. Losses were predominant in the Sun Belt. Prices caught their breath there. There was price attrition in Florida, with 96% of zip codes, so nearly all of Florida, then California, 78% of zip codes had a price loss. Texas, 75% of them and Arizona, 73% the biggest pocket of opportunity appears to be in Florida. Florida property is on sale. And because real estate is local. A lot of times we talk here nationally, but to get to that local level, sometimes you have to dig in to a local market to really find out what's going on. We're going to do that today. Now, central Miami, Orlando and Tampa, they're not generally the spot for obtaining cash flow from long term rentals. I've identified an opportunity. We'll get into that with this Florida homebuilder shortly. It's kind of funny. You'll run into people that say they want opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. How it plays out, though, is that once the certainty arrives, the opportunity is gone, and that's how to think about Florida and maybe Texas and some of these other markets today that have had price attrition. Keith Weinhold 10:48 Now, three weeks ago, here on the show, I discussed the 721 exchange for the first time. So I won't get into all those details again when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, the 721 can be the best way for you to cash out. Perhaps you've been investing in real estate for a while and you have turned get rich education into got rich education. How the 721 exchange works is they basically say you have a case where you're a rental property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore. Oftentimes, this can mean you're older and real estate investing already took you where you wanted it to take you in life's journey, but you still like the financial benefit that ownership gives you. What you can do is exchange your properties into a partnership and receive shares in that partnership. Now that's different than a 1031, exchange. That's where you trade up some of your property that you directly own for what's usually more and larger property that you directly own. Well, instead, here's the big deal with exchanging your properties into a 721, partnership. The rules stipulate that this is not a taxable event, and therefore you don't have to pay any capital gains tax or depreciation recapture. Now that you're an owner in the partnership, you still get some of the benefits of owning the property, like appreciation and cash flow and such, yet no management or landlording at all like you would have with a 1031 and with a 721 you get all these benefits across a greater number of properties and markets diversification because you're a fractional owner in the other properties that are in the partnership, not only your own, and when you eventually pass away, your shares are stepped up in basis and can be distributed equally to heirs and C It's surely easier for you to divide shares among, say, your three children, than it is to divide your 18 rental houses among three children Who are going to have different goals and varying degrees of financial savvy. So the 721, exchange is a great estate planning tool too. You will have this partnership that makes an offer to buy your property. You're exchanging them for partnership shares. There's a firm that does this called flock homes, and they have a certain Buy Box to be clear with the 721, exchange, you can basically trade your rentals for shares in a diversified, professionally managed Real Estate Fund. This means that you keep your hard earned equity defer capital gains and other taxes, and you still get access to steady income and long term appreciation without the hassle of landlord duties, and you can visit flockhomes.com/gre, and get a free valuation. Get an offer for your property, see if it fits their buy box and see how much they'll pay you. There's often no need to pay to fix up or stage the property for sale or pay agent commissions for a certain investor type. This really can be a rather life changing experience for you to liquidate some or all of your property have zero tax obligation and still enjoy income and appreciation. So again, what you can do is stop by flock homes.com/gre, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g, R, E, let's discuss the home building climate today. Keith Weinhold 14:38 I'd like to bring in a premium Florida homebuilder guest to the show, Jim, because there has been more homebuilding in Florida such that some areas of the state have excess supply. And when you add that onto the fact that the hot pandemic migration to Florida has slowed such that home prices have made a rare dip in the state, that is why it. A timely topic. Jim, you're on GRE Welcome to the show. Keith, great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and we did the IRL thing in Colorado there a few weeks ago. That was great hanging out in person. You provide entry level new build homes, mostly in Central Florida. And these are properties that are conducive to real estate pays five ways. These are properties that investors chiefly buy as rentals. So just bigger picture, tell us about that overall experience over, say, the last five years, as the pandemic wound down, Jim Sheils 15:35 yeah, as the pandemic wound down, obviously Florida had a lot of attention. Some of it, rightly so, some of it, I think a little more inflated and commercial attention getting thrown at it. And you know, the type of deals that you and I have always stayed away from were very popular in Florida. You know, we're talking really nice houses. Keith, beautiful, nice HOAs people got in in 2021 let's say, with those very low interest rates on a six or $700,000 home, but now they're realizing that it's not going up $100,000 a year as they thought. And when they try to sell it, well, people trying to buy in $700,000 home, they're not getting that low interest rate. And if these people try to hold it and rent it, well, it doesn't cash flow, so it breaks one of those rules. It's not putting money in people's pockets, taking it out. And so we're seeing there was a large distribution of those types of houses around Florida. And then there were some builders like us that really focused on what was the most needed, and that was workforce housing. Now workforce housing, though, Keith, as you know, a lot of the builders don't want to build it. Why? Let's be straight. It's because the margins are lower right. But as you know, with me and my partner Chris, it was always let's make less margin and do more volume. That was always our model, and that was the area of the market where we felt we could build it right, we could get it financed right, and we could manage it right to hit the five things. And so we're seeing today, post pandemic, there are still key markets where the population growth is still the highest, coming into Florida, the prices are still the lowest, and there is a shortage of this type of workforce housing. Keith Weinhold 17:11 Yes, you've identified a geography within Florida that have some of these characteristics like you're talking about. Tell us more about that region. Jim Sheils 17:20 Yeah, we call it the Ocala region, so Central Florida, just west of Orlando. Right now, for example, u haul does their U haul top markets rankings every year? So where are the most U haul trucks going to now, you don't want to be on their side where they're coming from, Keith, because that's obviously the opposite. But for the second year in a row, the greater Ocala area has been the number 1u haul destination place in the country. So there's still a ton of population growth going there. Central Florida, I'm not going to say it sat out the growth during the pandemic that a lot of areas of Florida did, but it was starting at such a low basis with such a small amount of attention that today, even when people say, oh gosh, like I just said, house is 600 700 800,000 we're building new construction single family homes for under 300,000 the 270s a lot of the time. And we're building duplexes sometimes for under 400,000 and a lot of our you know, investors coming from the west coast. Say, are these fully built? Are they? But again, Central Florida has had a great affordability. Remain intact. It has a large population going in. There is a ton of job resource just blowing up in the area. And as you know, these are the things we look for. So we bought a lot of lots there. I'm gonna give credit to my partner, Chris. He saw calla more than I did, and we bought a lot of lots there in 2020 so before all the rises. So we got into the land basis, right? So that means we can build them at a great price. Our land basis is low, and that obviously passes along to our clients. And again, Central Florida is a perfect match for our goal. Because, you know, our goal is workforce housing, that cash flows on day one. But also nothing wrong with fixer uppers. I own a lot. I used to do a lot, but the new construction seems to have a little bit more of a less involvement, which it seems like a lot of our clients want. Keith Weinhold 19:15 That was really prescient, as it turned out, for your business partner, Chris there to gobble up a lot of that land in 2020 before prices went soaring. And this is one reason why you can do things like offer a duplex for less than 400k That's a new build, which has some people saying like, does that thing include a roof even? But it surely does. These are very good quality livable properties. And the reason I have you here, Jim is because you are rare. There are fewer builders today than there were in decades past, and also those that build to your point earlier. They only want to build higher end properties, not the more affordable ones that you offer. We'll get more details on your price points and what...
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591: Mortgage Loan Types Every Real Estate Investor Must Know
02/02/2026
591: Mortgage Loan Types Every Real Estate Investor Must Know
Keith shares how a recent trip to Colorado Springs and a changing commission landscape reveal what really matters for real estate investors now From there, the show dives into the three levers investors truly control—leverage, operations, and relationships—before welcoming lender Caeli Ridge to break down the major mortgage options for investors. You’ll hear how different loan types fit different strategies: from your first conventional “golden ticket” loans, to DSCR loans based on property income, to short-term fix-and-flip and bridge loans that prioritize speed and flexibility. The episode then moves into how more advanced investors can scale beyond 10 doors, navigate debt-to-income and tax strategy, and even approach financing for short-term rentals—all while highlighting why having the right lending partner and long-term plan can make a big difference to your results. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold with new ways to think about your life through goals momentum in the real estate market. Then learn about various mortgage loan types, conventional DSCR, fix and flip, bridge loans, short term rental loans and more. Knowing which loans to use can save you millions and learn the fatal mortgage mistakes you must avoid today on get rich education. Corey Coates 0:29 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Speaker 1 1:14 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:30 Welcome to GRE from Winnebago, Minnesota to Winnipeg, Manitoba, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 before we get into the mortgage discussion, where we'll discuss five or 10 different investor loan types and their various pros and cons, which could save you millions over the course of your life. I shared with you that I traveled to Colorado A couple weeks ago, for a goals retreat hosted by the real estate guys, top notch event, I spent extra time there in Colorado Springs, because I find it really livable, and I spent five hours with a local realtor there, one day out and about visiting properties in the area I'm potentially looking for a home or a second home. And by the way, how is this for a price range? The realtor wanted to know what my Buy Box is, and since I'm just learning the Colorado Springs market, I told him I'm willing to spend between 400k and 1.2 million on the property, yeah, pretty wide range, a mile wide. Fortunately, my other Buy Box criteria are more narrow and specific, and I have got to say, I'm surprised at how low the area's home prices are. I thought they'd be higher. Interestingly, before touring homes, my buyer agent wanted me to sign a six month exclusive representation agreement. Fair enough, that's standard stuff. It was on the agreement, though, that I as the buyer pay a 3% commission up on the purchase, and the seller would presumably pay the other 3% to make up that total 6% commission for the agent compensation. Well, historically, the seller paid the entire 6% and this, of course, goes back to the NAR settlement, and that ruling that became effective in August of 2024 you probably remember this, and I talked about it on the show back then, and how it's not really that big of a deal, especially to investors like us, because at GRE marketplace and with our GRE investment coaching, it's a direct model. There's zero commission on either side, and then you, in turn, get some of those savings, but out in the larger world and in the owner occupant world. Well, that rule change that started a year and a half ago. It means that sellers are no longer required to pay the buyer's agent. Instead, the fee is now negotiable between buyers and their agent. The other change is that property listings no longer display the buyer agent's commission offer. But here's what's interesting in practice, and what really ends up happening in the end, in most cases, is that the seller still pays the full commission and compensates both agents that full 6% sometimes it's 5% instead of six buyers and buyer agents, they still operate under the seller pays. And that's largely because that has just been the norm. It's what's seemingly always been done. It's what buyers are used to. And the reason that that often persists. Is because the seller is the party in the transaction that has that thick equity in the property, deep equity, and buyers are the ones often just trying to scrape together whatever they can for a down payment and closing costs. Buyers are not going to be able to come up with another 15k for an agent commission when they're buying a 500k property, that's 3% especially today, this is true because American homeowners the seller then still have record equity positions of about 300k an all time high. Nearly half of mortgaged homes are considered equity rich. What does equity rich mean? It means that the loan balance is less than half of the home's value, yeah, the seller has the means to pay the full commission. So the point is, in practice, the seller, yeah, still pays that full five to 6% commission in the overwhelming majority of cases, and the buyer pays nothing. And if that does change, it's going to take a long time. You know, a lot of these evanescent real estate stories that people think are going to have some seismic impact. It rarely does, like this erstwhile NAR ruling or the 50 year mortgage proposal or banning big institutions for buying more single family rentals. You know, this stuff is like one little baseball sized asteroid striking an entire planet. I mean, it's like a barely discernible impact. Real estate is anchored in one place like Jabba the Hut. It is solid. These stories are interesting, but they're not impactful. Keith Weinhold 6:52 Instead, I've mentioned it before. What are three things you control in real estate that really matter. And these are evergreen things. First, it's, how many dollars are you leveraging? That's where your wealth is going to come from. In fact, we're going to discuss that today with mortgage loan types. Second, what's the efficiency of operations on your existing properties? And thirdly, what is the quality of your relationships? And actually, we're addressing the third one today too, talking to a lender that you could make part of your team. You can control these three things. They're unyielding, they're evergreen, they're long term, and they all have gratitas and impact those three things, leverage operations and relationships. Now my agent drops me off and picks me up from my hotel here at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. This was also the event hotel for the goals retreat. I just extended my stay to hang out in the area. Look at real estate, do some climbing on Pikes Peak. Pro tip for you on hotel room rates, talk to a human being before I booked my stay, I called the front desk and asked them if they could extend the attractive event room rate to more nights on my extended stay. And they agreed. You might have heard of the Broadmoor. It is well known. It's been here for more than 100 years, and it is such a fine place to stay. Let me tell you about this special piece of real estate. In fact, I've thought it through, and I will now hereby proclaim that it is the finest us hotel experience that I've ever had in my life. I say us because I stayed at an amazing place in Dubai. But what makes the Broadmoor stand alone? It's the details and the service. A lot of hotels are nice, but this is on a different level. And I don't say this to brag, and this is because you probably can afford to stay here, yeah, like I have. You might have paid more elsewhere in your life for a lesser hotel, although I am here in the low seasons. Okay, now, sure, you've got views of the Rockies and a man made lake and waterfall and even a beautiful chandelier in my hotel room. The thing that sets it apart, though, is you have this service that feels old world and not corporate. That's what makes the difference. The Broadmoor is horse themed, since horses are a symbol of the American West. There are about 800 rooms here. It's kind of like a self contained adult Disneyland championship golf courses, a world class spa, even an outdoor lap swimming pool like that has lanes that I swam in one morning for. Fine dining, casual dining, access to hiking, fly fishing, even falconry, zip lines, tennis, pickleball pools. Take the cog railway to the Pikes Peak, Summit. Okay. Now, other nice hotels have attractions that are sort of like that, but when I rave about the service, it's the little things they are knocking on my door before 10am to come in and clean the room. And you know how so commonly, when you first check into your hotel room and you look in the closet, there are not enough clothing hangers, and they're all like stupidly mismatched. These all match. They're all nice wood, and there are plenty of them. So I'm talking about these details. I'm telling you. I had dinner at one of the broadmoor's restaurants the other night. I just happened to take a close look at the tag on the napkin. Sure enough, it is made in Italy. I mean, jeez, no detail is overlooked at this stellar place. In fact, here's what I'll do. You know, I'll just completely stop my Colorado Springs home search right now. Instead, I'm going to stop down by the Broadmoor front desk, tell him to give me some moving boxes, because I'm moving into the Broadmoor and I'll be here for the next decade. Start forwarding my mail here and everything. And hey, at least I was courteous enough to give them notice. I can't stay here too long, or my standards will be rising faster than my net worth. Yeah, yeah. Can't go to sleep with a mint on your pillow every night, I suppose. Keith Weinhold 11:38 Now, the reason I came here now is to attend that aforementioned goals retreat, and let me take all the time and all the resources that I put into being here and distill them into just a few of the most salient takeaways for you. Goals should be smart, strategic, measurable, actionable, relevant and time based, they must be written down. Now, how would you describe yourself to somebody else that didn't know who you were? Write that down next. What do you think your reputation is? How would others describe you? Write that down now that you can see how you describe yourself and how others describe you, you can see that there's a gap there. That gap is what you need to work on. I learned that goal should be written in the present tense, not the future tense. I did not know that before. For example, say it is January 1, 2035, and I own $5 million in rental property. That's an example of how you would do that. So take future events and write them in the present tense. Other questions at the goals retreat that got really introspective are, what are you really going to do with your life? And write down that answer. Sheesh, that is tough. And if you think that's a hard question for you to ask of yourself, the next one is even harder. It's simply why? Why is that where you're going with your life? And then write that down? I mean, would you answer questions like this for yourself? And you really think about it, that can occupy a new segment of your entire headspace. It is a big cognitive load, and a last one to leave you with is to dream not just big, but gigantic. Get it out there, write down a dream that interests you, but it's so grandiose that you're actually embarrassed to tell someone about this stretch dream, for example, for me, it's the first person to walk on another planet. No human has ever done that, and this would most likely happen on Mars. See, this is so grand that is sort of embarrassing for me to even share that with you. It almost makes you sound Loony, like I would have to learn so many new skills to travel to and walk on Mars. But you should write down a bunch of other goals too. You're sort of brainstorming on goals, attainable goals. Recall that is the A in the SMART goals acronym, you want to write down a bunch of attainable ones, not just that stretch one. So for attainable ones, one of them is for me to become the highest man on earth. To give you an example. And I attempted that goal two years ago, and I failed. I told you about that at that time. But see now, compared to my embarrassing stretch goal of walking on Mars, the highest man on earth feels attainable, I know what it takes to achieve it, and it's worth doing, ah, but it's a grind to get there, yet it would be worth it. Those are some quick take. Ways from the real estate guys goals retreat while on stage the event host Robert helms he took a minute respite from the goals material, and he recognized the fact that, as he calls it, the four OG real estate podcasters are all in the same room. One of them is helms himself, and now I feel like the other three are all older and doing it longer than me. I was one of the four that he mentioned. But you know, there is only one podcast that was mentioned from stage, and that is that Robert helms told the audience that they should be listening to the get rich education podcast. That was a nice thing to say, and he is always a gracious giver. Keith Weinhold 15:45 Next, we're talking about four major loan types, conventional DSCR, fix and flip and then bridge loans. When we discuss the first two parts of it could sound repetitive, but you'll see why we do this, because then you'll be able to compare it to nichey loan types that we discuss, for example, the speed of a bridge loan, where you can get funded in just one week, compared to a slower conventional loan. The mortgage landscape changes. I still remember how in 2012 we had still somewhat freshly emerged from the global financial crisis, and back then, you could only get four conventional loans, four rental properties, not 10 like you can today, 20 married. So get your loans while you can, you probably won't always be able to get 10 loans. We'll start with loan types that are more for beginners, and then we'll get to advanced material. Let's welcome back one of our favorite recurring guests. Keith Weinhold 16:54 You can make millions more throughout your life by understanding mortgage loans. This is key, and today it's the return of the woman that's created more financial freedom through real estate than any other lender in the entire nation, because she's the president of ridge lender group. Hey, it's time for a big welcome back to the incomparable, yet somehow still so approachable Chaley Ridge Caeli Ridge 17:16 my Keith, thank you for having me. I love being here. I love what you're doing. It's my pleasure, sir. Keith Weinhold 17:23 And our followers, our listeners, have been approaching you since 2015 you're one of the longest running guests, truly one of the OGS around here at GRE and now Caeli, before we discuss loan types. You know, we don't really talk politics on this show rather policies, and we're in the midst of a presidential administration that often, in the name of the word affordability, is trying to supremely shake things up in the housing market. Help us dissect what matters and what won't. Caeli Ridge 17:58 I have found that at least as it relates to current administration, whoever that might be, I wait for the buzzwords or the taglines to become the actual policy. Like you said, That's a good point in this case. You know, you've got things floating around, like the 50 year mortgage cutting off the hedge fund guys and that kind of thing. Whether or not, those things come to fruition. I'm happy to give my opinion on them. I do not think that it's going to move the needle much for the people that you and I serve with regard to I mean, just taking them one at a time, I don't think that the 50 year is going to come to fruition. Just first and foremost, if it did do, I think it would be a good idea for a homeowner, probably not, but for an investor, maybe if there's some way that we can keep our payment lower, given the maturity date of a mortgage for an investment property is usually about five years. I mean, I know that this is a 30 year fixed mortgage, but statistically speaking, the average shelf life of a non owner occupied mortgage is about five years. So getting a 50 year amortization, if that were going to reduce the payment, I don't think is a bad thing for an investor, however, and this may get a little bit technical for the listeners, so I apologize in advance if we were to go to a 50 Year am the adjustments, something called, and you and I have talked about this before, something called an llpa, that stands for loan level price adjustment, I think would be such that it could end up defeating the purpose of having the longer term amortization, because I think the interest rates would be higher and I think they may offset so that was a long way to say. One, I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's actually going to get to its final resting place. And two, would it be a good idea for investors, yeah, I think it would be worth considering if it kept the payment lower. Okay, that's that as the other piece to cutting off the hedge funds, the big, you know, BlackRock, some of the big players, and giving them access to the residential housing and first right of infusion or etc, because they've got such deep pockets. You. It's such a small amount to what our individual investors are going to have access to that I don't think that that moves the needle either. So I don't know if I'm answering the question, except to say anything that they're going to tout, I would wait for it to actually become written in stone and pass by the rest of the powers that be before I would get excited about or concerned about any of it. Keith Weinhold 20:21 This is pretty parallel with what I've been telling our listeners. All these things seem to make splashy news, but I haven't seen anything that's going to make a deep impact yet, whether it's the 50 year mortgage, which probably won't even come to fruition, or if it's doing these mortgage bond buy downs in order to...
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590: Is the World Overpopulated or Underpopulated? What it Means for Housing's Future
01/26/2026
590: Is the World Overpopulated or Underpopulated? What it Means for Housing's Future
Keith challenges the usual “overpopulated vs. underpopulated” debate and shows why that’s the wrong way to think about demographics—especially if you’re a real estate investor. Listeners will hear about surprising global population comparisons that flip common assumptions. Why raw population numbers don’t actually explain housing shortages or rent strength. How household formation, aging, and migration really drive demand for rentals. Which kinds of markets tend to see persistent housing pressure—and why the US has a long‑term demographic edge. You’ll come away seeing population headlines very differently, and with a clearer lens for spotting where future housing demand is most likely to show up. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? Also is the United States over or underpopulated? These are not just rhetorical questions, because I'm going to answer them both. Just one of Africa's 54 nations has more births than all of Europe and Russia combined. One US state has seen their population decline for decades. This is all central to housing demand today. On get rich education Keith Weinhold 0:36 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Speaker 1 1:21 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:31 Welcome to GRE from Norfolk Virginia to Norfolk, Nebraska and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside. Get rich education. I am the GRE founder, Best Selling Author, longtime real estate investor. You can see my written work in Forbes and the USA Today, but I'm best known as the host of this incomprehensibly slack John operation that you're listening to right now. My name is Keith Weinhold. You probably know that already, one reason that we're talking about underpopulated versus overpopulated today is that also one of my degrees is in geography and demography, essentially, is human geography, and that's why this topic is in my wheelhouse. It's just a humble bachelor's degree, by the way, if a population is not staying stable or growing, then demand for housing just must atrophy away. That's what people think, but that is not true. That's oversimplified. In some cases. It might even be totally false. You're going to see why. Now, Earth's population is at an all time high of about 8.2 billion people, and it keeps growing, and it's going to continue to keep growing, but the rate of growth is slowing now. Where could all of the people on earth fit? This is just a bit of a ridiculous abstraction in a sense, but I think it helps you visualize things. Just take this scenario, if all the humans were packed together tightly, but in a somewhat realistic way, in a standing room only way, if every person on earth stood shoulder to shoulder, that would allow about 2.7 square feet per person, they would sort of be packed like a subway car. Well, they could fit in a square, about 27 kilometers on one side, about 17 miles on each side of that square. Now, what does that mean in real places that is smaller than New York City, about half the size of Los Angeles County and roughly the footprint of Lake Tahoe? So yes, every human alive today could physically fit inside one midsize us metro area. This alone tells you something important. The world's problem is certainly not a lack of space. Rather, it's where people live and not how many there are. So that was all of Earth's inhabitants. Now, where could all Americans fit us residents using the same shoulder to shoulder assumption, and the US population by mid year this year is supposed to be about 350,000,00349 that's a square about five and a half kilometers, or 3.4 miles on each side. And some real world comparisons there are. That's about half of Manhattan, smaller than San Francisco and roughly the size of Disney World, so every American could fit into a single small city footprint. And if you're beginning to form an early clue that we are not overpopulated globally, yes, that's the sense that you Should be getting. Keith Weinhold 5:01 now, if you're in Bangladesh, it feels overpopulated there. They've got 175 million people, and that nation is only the size of Iowa. In area, Bangladesh is low lying and typhoon prone. They get a lot of flooding, which complicates their already bad sanitation problems and a dense population like that, and that creates waterborne diseases, and it's really more of an infrastructure problem in a place like Bangladesh than it is a population problem. Then Oppositely, you've got Australia as much land as the 48 contiguous states, yet just 27 million people in Australia, and only 1/400 as many people as Bangladesh in density. Now we talk about differential population. About 80% of Americans live in the eastern half of the US. But yet, the East is not overpopulated because we have sufficient infrastructure, and I've got some more mind blowing population stats for you later, both world and us. Now, as far as is the world overpopulated or underpopulated, which is our central question, depending on who you ask and where they live, you're going to hear completely different answers. Some people are convinced that the planet is bursting at the seams. Others warn that we're headed for a population collapse. But here's the problem, that question overpopulated or underpopulated, it's the wrong question. It's the wrong framing, especially if you're into real estate, because housing demand doesn't respond to total headcount or global averages or scary demographic headlines. Housing demand responds to where people live, how old they are, and how they form households. And once you understand this, a lot of things suddenly begin to make sense, like why housing shortages persist, why rents stay high, even when affordability feels stretched, why some states struggle while others boom, and why population headlines often mislead investors. Keith Weinhold 7:20 So today I want to reframe how you think about population and connect it directly to housing demand, both globally and right here in the United States. And let's start with the US, because that's probably where you invest. Keith Weinhold 7:33 Here's a simple fact that should confuse people, but usually doesn't, the United States has below replacement fertility. I'll talk about fertility rates a little later. They're similar to birth rates, meaning that Americans are not having enough children to replace the population naturally and without immigration, the US population would eventually shrink, and yet in the US, we have a housing shortage, rising rents, tight vacancy and a lot of metros and persistent demand for rental housing, which could all seem contradictory. Now, if population alone determine housing demand, well, then the US really shouldn't have any housing shortage at all, but it does so clearly, population alone is not the main driver, and really that contradiction is like your first clue that most demographic conversations are just missing the point. Aging does not reduce housing demand. The way that people think a misconception really is that an aging population automatically reduces housing demand. It does not, in fact, just the opposite. If a population is too young, well, that tends to kill housing demand, and that's because five year old kids and 10 year old kids do not form their own household. Instead, what an aging population often does is change the type of housing that's demanded, like seniors aging in place, some of them downsizing. Seniors living alone. Sometimes after a spouse passes away, others relocating closer to health care or to family. So aging can increase unit demand even if population growth slows. So already, we've broken two myths here. Slower population doesn't mean weaker housing demand, and aging doesn't mean fewer housing units are needed. Now let's explain why. Really, the core idea that unlocks everything is that people don't live inside, what are called Population units. They live in households. You are one person. That does not mean that your dwelling is then one population unit. That's not how that works. You are part of a household, whether that's a house a Household of one person or five or 11 people, housing demand is driven by the number of households, the type of households and where those households are forming, not by raw population totals. So the same population can have wildly different demand. Just think about how five people living together in one home, that's one housing unit, those same five people living separately, that is five housing units, same population, five times the housing demand. And this is why population statistics alone are almost useless for real estate investors, you need to know how people are living, not just how many there are. The biggest surge in housing demand happens when people leave their parents' homes or when they finish school or when they start working, or you got big surges in housing demand when people marry or when they separate or divorce. So in other words, adults create housing demand and children don't. And this is why a country with a youngish, working age population, oh, then they can have exploding housing demand. A country with high birth rates, but low household formation can have overcrowding without profitable housing growth. So it's not about babies, it's about independent adults, and what quietly boosts housing demand, then is housing fragmentation. Yeah, fragmentation. That's a trend that really doesn't get enough attention, and that is the trend, households are fragmenting, meaning more single adults later marriage, like I was talking about in a previous episode. Recently, higher divorce rates, more people living alone and older adults living independently, longer. Each one of those trends increases housing demand without adding any population whatsoever. When two people split up, they often need two housing units instead of one, and if you've got one adult living alone, that is full unit demand right there. So that's why housing demand can rise even when population growth slows or stalls for housing demand. What matters more than births is migration. And another key distinction is that, yes, births matter, but they're on somewhat of this 20 year delay and migration matters immediately, right now. So see, when a working age adult moves, they need housing right away. They typically rent first. They cluster near jobs, and they don't bring housing supply along with them. They've got to get it from someone else. Hopefully you in your rental unit. Keith Weinhold 12:57 This is why migration is such a powerful force in rental markets, and you see me talk about migration on the show, and you see me send you migration maps in our newsletter. It's also why housing pressure shows up unevenly. It gets concentrated around opportunity. If you want to know the future, look at renters. Renters are the leading indicator, not homeowners and not birth rates. See renters create housing demand faster than homeowners, because renters form households earlier. They can do it quickly because they don't need down payments. Renters move more frequently and immigration overwhelmingly starts in rentals, fresh immigrants rarely become homeowners, so even when mortgage rates rise or home purchases slow or affordability headlines get scary, rental demand can stay strong. It's not a mystery, it's demographics. So births surely matter, but only over the long term. It's like how I've shared with you in a previous episode that the US had a lot of births between 1990 and 2010 those two decades, a surge of births more than 4 million every single one of those years during those two decades, with that peak birth year at 2007 but see a bunch of babies being born in 2007 Well, that didn't make housing demand surge, since infants don't buy homes. But if you add, say, 20 years to 2007 when those people start renting, oh, well, that rental demand peaks in 2027 or maybe a little after that, and since the first time, homebuyer age is now 40. If that stays constant, well, then native born homebuyer demand won't peak until 2047 so when it comes to housing demand, the important thing to remember is migration has an immediate effect and births have a delayed effect. Keith Weinhold 15:02 and I'm going to talk more about other nations shortly, but the US has two major migration forces working simultaneously, domestic and international migration. I mean, Americans move a lot, although not as much as they used to, and people move for jobs, for taxes, for weather, for cost of living and for lifestyle. So this creates state level winners and losers, and Metro level housing pressure and rent growth in those destination markets and national population averages totally hide this. So that's domestic migration. And then on the international migration. The US has a long history, hundreds of years now on, just continually attracting working age adults from around the world. This matters immensely, because they arrive ready to work, and they form households quickly. They overwhelmingly rent first. They concentrate in metros, and this props up rental demand before it ever shows up in home prices. And this is why investors often feel the rent pressure first those rising rents. Keith Weinhold 16:17 I've got more straight ahead, including Nigeria versus Europe, and what about the overpopulation straining the environment? If you like, episodes that explain why housing behaves the way it does, rather than just reacting to the headlines. You'll want to be on my free weekly newsletter. I break down demographics, housing, demand, inflation, investor trends and real estate strategy in plain English, often complemented with maps. You can join free at greletter.com that's gre letter.com Keith Weinhold 16:53 mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's midsouthhomebuyers.com Keith Weinhold 17:54 you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989Yep. Text their freedom coach directly again. 1937795, 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 19:05 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Chris Martenson 19:37 this is peak prosperity. Is Chris Martinson. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Keith Weinhold 19:53 Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is episode 590 yes, we're in my Geography wheelhouse today, as I'm talking human geography and demographics with how it relates to housing, while answering our central question today is the world and the US overpopulated or underpopulated? And now that we understand some mechanics here, let's go global. Here's one of the most mind bending stats in all of demographics. Are you ready for this? When you hear this, it's going to have you hitting up chat, GPT, looking it up. It's going to be so astonishing. So jaw dropping. Every year, Nigeria has more births than all of Europe plus all of Russia combined. Would you talk about Willis? Keith Weinhold 20:47 Yeah, yes, you heard that, right? Willis, that's what I'm talking about. Willis. The source of that data is, in fact, from the United Nations. Yes, Nigeria has seven and a half million births every year. Compare that to all of Europe plus Russia combined, they only have about 6.3 million births per year. So you're telling me that today, just one West African nation, and there are 54 nations in Africa. Just one West African nation produces more babies than the entire continent of Europe, with all of its nations plus all of Russia, the largest world nation by area. Yes, that is correct. One country in Africa produces more babies every year than France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK, all of Europe, including all the Eastern European nations, and all of Russia combined. This is a demographic reality, and now you probably already know that less developed nations, like Nigeria...
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589: Definitive Guide to Selling Your Investment Property: 721 Exchange, Three Other Options
01/19/2026
589: Definitive Guide to Selling Your Investment Property: 721 Exchange, Three Other Options
Keith Weinhold breaks down how recent presidential housing policies could influence real estate investors and everyday homebuyers. Then he walks through four different ways to eventually exit your investment properties—including a little-known strategy most investors have never heard of—so you can start thinking about how you’ll one day harvest your gains, potentially with minimal or no taxes, while still preserving your wealth and flexibility. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the presidential administration has made some weighty decisions that could affect the real estate market for years. Then when it's time for you to sell your investment property, there are some smart ways to do it and some big mistakes to avoid. We're talking about four options for your real estate exit strategy, including the little discussed 721 exchange today on get rich education. Keith Weinhold 0:32 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Russell Gray 1:18 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:28 Welcome to GRE you're inside one of America's longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, if you're working for the weekend, then you had better examine your Monday to Friday and start investing for leverage in income that's generated today. The good news is that down the road, when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, hopefully, after decades of handsome profits, even if that is years away, there are a lot of good options for you, including multiple ones that are tax deferred and effectively tax free. I'll discuss that later today, what we know, and what history has proven, is that savers lose wealth, stock investors maintain wealth, real estate investors build wealth. And I contend that within the discipline of real estate, being the investor is the best job of all of them, because, look, realtors rarely build wealth. Property managers that don't actually own the real estate, they also rarely build wealth. And the people on your maintenance team, they don't build wealth either. Now, as much as we might appreciate all these service professionals, I mean, I sure do this is not meant to disparage them. I'm trying to help you pick the right lane in real estate. Know that you're doing the right thing. Do the right thing before you do things right. By their own admission, the National Association of Realtors, the NAR they will tell you that the median gross income for a realtor is. Do you want to guess? Any guess as to what the median gross income for a realtor is? It is $58,100. that's it. Keith Weinhold 3:37 And realize that's the figure being reported by the trade organization that represents the industry too licensed sales agents. Median income that's even lower. It is $41,700 also per the NAR I see myself realtors that have been in business 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, and all that time, they have never bought a single investment property for themselves. Instead, a lot of them spend their entire career helping other people get rich while they never get on the treadmill. But do you know what is even crazier to me, crazier than that, it's the number of people that manage properties, including some of my own property managers that I hire, and they don't own any investment real estate themselves. And I think that's crazy, because managers are doing what is one of the toughest jobs in real estate, always having to walk that tightrope, arbitrating between the property owner and the tenant, and as a result, often pleasing nobody. They're sort of like the football referee, the baseball umpire, the property manager they have to deal with The problem tenant. The manager has to bug the tenant to collect the late rent, and then your maintenance people. You know, I just met up with a contractor that's putting new flooring in one of my rentals. He's got a sense of humor, and he wore this great t shirt that says, I'm here because you broke it. I love that. But now his compensation isn't too shabby, but he's trading his time for dollars, and the income stops when his work stops. The lesson is, be the asset owner. Keith Weinhold 5:35 Now this presidential administration has shaken up a lot of policies, good or bad we've got a bunch of new directives centered on the housing market. And really, this shouldn't come as any sort of surprise, since be mindful, the current White House occupant is a long time New York City Real Estate Investor, some of the more recent weighty moves that can affect you are banning institutional investors from buying single family homes that they turn into rentals, and the other one is a $200 billion bond purchase program aimed at reducing mortgage rates. Okay, whether those two things happen or not, it's good to look at their effect, how they move a real estate market, because when you understand the effects, then you learn a lesson, even if you're listening to this episode 10 years from now, the move to ban institutional investors. We're talking about conglomerate groups like Blackstone and invitation homes. The move to ban them from buying single family rentals is to try to reduce the demand and therefore, hopefully lower the price of single family homes in order to help affordability. Okay, that could work in concept. But here's the other thing that it does, there would be fewer rentals available on the market, because most institutional investors do buy those build to rent properties, that's what they're looking to acquire. So it's sort of what most any real estate investor would want. They would get higher rents and maybe some somewhat lower purchase prices, or at least a lower appreciation rate. But this whole move to ban institutional investors, that is mostly a nothing burger, that's all we're talking about here. And here's why you cannot undo the institutional purchases that were already made, and a lot of those got made, a lot of them during the pandemic. So it would only be banning new purchases. And another important point to consider here is how small this market is. I think these institutional buyers make a whole lot of outsized noise and often get pointed to as the boogeyman for running up prices of real estate. But that's not true. Only about two to 3% of single family rentals are owned by these giant investors, at least the ones that have over 1000 units. Okay, so this all sounds good as a political platitude. You trying to do something about it? I sort of understand that, but this ban, it just would not move the market very much at all now, perhaps a slight move could be triggered in cities that do have a lot of institutional ownership, like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Charlotte, but really little effect. The second directive from the President is having Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy $200 billion worth of mortgage bonds. This is really an effort to drive down mortgage rates and bring down monthly payments and make the cost of home ownership more affordable. The translation here for you is that whenever you inject money into something, money tends to flow more freely and rates get lower, kind of lowering the dam wall height, like I have given to you in other examples, when you buy bonds that demand pushes up bond prices, which lowers bond yields. And mortgage rates are tied to those lowered bond yields. And as soon as this was announced, like the very next day, mortgage rates fell into the high fives, yes, under 6% for the first time in three years. But the last thing effect of this that's been studied, and it's been shown to reduce mortgage rates by about three tenths of 1% so not nothing, but sort of small. However, if they're buying down rates like this one time, well then they might do it multiple times. So there you go. There are two recent directives from the president banning institutional investors from buying single family homes and buying mortgage bonds to lower mortgage rates. Keith Weinhold 10:00 Either one of them with seismic effects. It's sort of like the 50 year mortgage proposal that the administration made a while ago, and that's probably not going to become a reality anytime soon, if ever. Here's a question that I have for you, and I'll let you answer. Do you like free markets, or would you rather have big government? Well, each of these directives are more government intervention into the free market, whether you like that or not. Another way to say it is that stuff like this makes a lot of splashy headlines, but it's not a bigger deal than a Philadelphia Eagles football game,at least. You know how these forces can move markets now Keith Weinhold 10:46 straight ahead, it's the concise, definitive audio guide to selling your investment property. I'm going to detail four different ways that you can do it in this guide, including tax deferred and effectively, tax free methods. When you're able to defer taxes over and over again throughout your entire life, they effectively become tax free. You never have any tax obligation. Also, I will discuss one way of selling your property that you're probably not familiar with and you might have never heard about before in your life. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 589 of get rich education. Keith Weinhold 11:27 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre. Or or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again. 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 12:39 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Russell Gray 13:12 Hi. This is Russell Gray, Main Street capitalist. You're listening to the get rich education show with Keith weinholden. Remember, don't quit your Daydream. Keith Weinhold 13:20 You welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and I'm coming to you from Colorado Springs today, where I'm attending the real estate guys create your future goals retreat event, yeah, a goals event allows one to get introspective. One part of it is learning how I can serve you better on this show. Every week, since I do pour a lot of thought into what I share with you here. How much yeah, just, how much did this event mean to me? Well, my team is in the NFL playoffs, and I was willing to miss some playoff football for this. Speaker 1 14:07 That's inexcusable, inexcusable. Playoffs. Don't talk about playoffs. You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game. Keith Weinhold 14:19 Yeah, yeah. That is, that is, of course, the classic rant from a former NFL coach, Jim Mora. Maybe Jim needs to attend the goals retreat to put things into perspective here. now, whether it's just a few years from now or it's decades into your future, at some point we're all going to exit the real estate investing game, even if that's not until the day we die. I'll talk about that with whatever endeavor you're in. It is good to begin with. The end In mind. there's a good chance that you're either in real estate acquisition mode now, or you once were. Or where you're going to be in that real estate acquisition mode in the future, but after this accumulation phase of your life, hopefully, which you've turned into financial freedom through real estate, after that, you're going to be in the mode where, since you've already made it, you're going to want to just maintain the portfolio that you have or stop acquiring or you will want to sell eventually. The good news is that there are a lot of good options for selling your property and doing it, tax deferred and effectively tax free. Now I will not talk about selling your primary residence so much, though, this is focused on exiting from your investment property, primary residence sales rules with the IRS is that your first 250k of gain is exempt from capital gains tax if you're single, and your first 500k is shielded from tax if you're married. Quite a marriage incentive there. Keith Weinhold 15:59 But as we focus on investment properties. This is influenced by a question from one of our older GRE listeners, 62 year old, Mark, who wrote in last year, was such a good question and I answered his question on air last month. I'll basically expand on that answer today. Mark said he has listened to every GRE episode ever, and therefore, congratulations, he made it. He reached financial freedom, and he's got a sizable portfolio. Some of his properties are paid off. Others are leveraged. But see, Mark is hesitant to buy more property because he's already made it his wife doesn't want more properties because she associates it with him having to do more work. Now, when you're still in pursuit of financial freedom, well, you don't mind investing a small slice of your time each month into real estate, a little light management, remotely, maybe, but once your residual income exceeds all of your expenses, well, then at that point, your time is going to start to become more valuable. So let's look at four here, four solid options for exiting your property, and then I'm going to examine the pros and cons of each one. The first of four is simply to sell real estate in the conventional way, just a plain sale to a buyer, where you see that it gets fixed up and you list it and you sell it outright. Well, the pros of this are is that it gets you to your exit, and it also turns your equity into cash. The cons, the downside of doing it this way is that you're going to give up your ongoing stream of income. Your Cash Flow is going to be gone. You might have to remove tenants, depending on your scenario. You have to fix up and stage the home to prepare it for the market. That could be as little as 5k or as much as 50k or more, depending on the size of your real estate, you're going to have to pay a real estate agent a commission of 3% or more and pay capital gains tax of 15% or more. That's one five. And you'll also have to pay depreciation recapture, and of course, you don't have to pay 15% of the total asset value. It's just 15% of the value gain during the time that you held this property, right? So the tax and fix up cost can eat into your profit with this first of four ways to sell your property, although you are still probably in for a pretty nice windfall upon the sale if you've held it for a while. All right, so the first way is a plain sail, and a lot of people would agree that is not the best way to do it. Okay, it gets far better from here. The second sale option that you have is something that a lot of real estate investors like us are familiar with, or have at least heard of, and the general public has not, and that is the 1031 exchange. You'll also hear it be called the 1031 tax deferred Exchange, or the 1031 like kind exchange, because you trade your property up for another property that's kind of like it. It is a hugely powerful wealth building and wealth preservation tool, okay, section 1031, of the IRS tax code that allows an investor to exit a property without incurring any capital gains taxes. That also does not trigger depreciation recapture when you sell your property, but in order for you to get those tax deferred benefits. Importantly, you have to roll your game into another piece of real estate. Now there are a lot of rules and nuances around 1031 ones. I have done multiple 1030 ones in my life, and they are so worth doing and amplifying your wealth, building power I will not cover all the rules and nuances those things like the three properties rule and the 200% rule, and that rule about how you need to identify your replacement property within 45 days and close on it within 180 days, and all of that. Because what I've done is I've completely broken that down on the show with you here previously, and as always, I explained it in the most clear, incoherent way that I could for you. I best did that on episode 143 of get rich education. The name of that episode is your 1031 exchange guide, tax deferral for life. Now, there do get to be some numbers flying around here, so you want to listen closely, you might find yourself skipping back for simple example purposes, in a 1031assume that you bought a $200,000 duplex 20 years ago, and it's now worth 500k you depreciated the value of the duplex every year, as is actually required by the IRS, assuming you took a total of 100k of depreciation over the life of your ownership of it, and you did not make any improvements to it. The basis of your property is then 100k because it's your 200k purchase price, minus 100k in total depreciation write offs. When you sell the property for 500k you now have a gain of 500k minus 100k which is 400k depreciation, recapture and capital gains are not taxed at the same rate, and it depends on some things, but let's assume that your blended tax rate is 20%...
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588: If Property Taxes Go Away, What Replaces Them?
01/12/2026
588: If Property Taxes Go Away, What Replaces Them?
Keith explores two big themes shaping real estate investors’ futures: Why more Americans are becoming “forever renters”—and how long-term lifestyle and demographic shifts (not just today’s prices and rates) are quietly reshaping the demand for rentals. The growing conversation around eliminating property taxes—which states are making the most noise, and why the real issue isn’t whether property taxes go away, but what would realistically replace them. Keith also zooms out for a quick year-end tour of major asset classes—from stocks and real estate to metals and crypto—so listeners can see where real estate fits in the broader investing landscape and what these shifts might mean for their wealth-building strategy. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the Forever renter trend keeps getting embedded deeper into American culture. What's behind it? It's more than just finances. Then there's been more talk about eliminating property taxes, if they go away, what replaces them? And we'll discuss more today on get rich education. Keith Weinhold 0:27 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:12 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:28 Welcome to GRE from Jamestown, New York to Jamestown, North Dakota and across 108 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Most investments reduce your income until you can start drawing on it and paying taxes on it in your 60s. That's a lot of decades of living below your means. Here learn how to grow your means and invest in vehicles that pay you when you're young enough to enjoy it and pay you five ways tax advantaged. Hey, there's a big misunderstanding about the housing market taking place right now. Yes, today's higher cost of home ownership contributes to Americans renting longer, for sure, but let's not make the mistake of thinking this is a new phenomenon just because home prices moved higher or mortgage rates began normalizing again a few years ago, that's not what it's about Americans renting longer. That is a trend decades in the making, and it has had and will continue to have major implications on the rental housing market decades into the future, buying your first home at 25 that was your grandparents or maybe your parents. Today, it kind of goes like this in life's journey for the wannabe homeowner, First comes the gray hair, then comes the mortgage. Last year, we learned that the average first time homebuyer age in America has moved up to 40. Back in 1981 it was age 29 per the NAR. More specifically one's real estate journey, it basically now goes like this, rent, rent, rent, have roommates again, go back to renting, chiropractor, Bank of mom and dad, then a mortgage maybe. Keith Weinhold 3:34 Yeah, the home ownership rate, it keeps falling among every age group, most sharply among 30 somethings. The translation here is that more renters are coming. For those in their 30s, the home ownership rate maxed out at 69% in 1980 it's fallen to just 47% today. Those that are older, for those in their 40s, the homeownership rate maxed out at 78% in 1982 it has fallen to just 62% today and so on. Every 10 year age group all the way to those age 80 plus, the homeownership rate has fallen for all of them over the decades too, every single age cohort. The home ownership rate has fallen over the decades, and that is all per the Census Bureau. I'll tell you why this forever renter trend just keeps strengthening in a moment. But if you don't own your home, here are your current housing options. You can live with your parents. Yes, welcome back childhood bedroom with those glow in the dark stars on the ceiling. Sadly, you can be homeless. That is really not good. Or the other option is you can rent something nice, new, modern, and energy eficient. The group in which home ownership has fallen the most are those 30 somethings. 20 somethings aren't even part of what the Census Bureau reported here. It fell most sharply in the 1980s and then again, after the great recession. And here's what I know you might be thinking because we have some of the smartest listeners around. I bet that during times that buying was cheaper than renting, the trend reversed. That's what you might be thinking. No, it didn't. Regardless of what is cheaper, over time, the home ownership rate just keeps falling despite those periods, whatever is cheaper renting or owning now the overall home ownership rate that's fallen just since 2023 from 66% down to 65% that might not sound like much, but a Full 1% drop there means 1.3 million new renters already, just since 2023 and now you might be thinking, well, this is like totally because home prices and mortgage rates have been higher since that time. They've been higher since 2023 you are, in fact, somewhat correct about the affordability on a median priced home today, which is around 420k, I mean a 10% down payment and closing costs, that means you're out of pocket, probably more than 50k and it's 100k plus for a 20% down payment. And this is often an insurmountable hurdle without financial help from the Bank of mom and dad. But this is all part of a longer, multi decade set of trends. And look, a lot of these trends don't have much of anything to do with finances. People are renting longer because Americans wait longer to marry and have kids, and this has persisted, whether economic cycles are good or bad, and certainly, regardless of what mortgage rate levels are, younger generations value flexibility. That's another reason people are renting longer. Also 30 somethings are just simply more comfortable with subscription models like renting. I mean, look at Netflix and Uber and Spotify. It's been decades since anyone actually bought DVDs or CDs. Yeah, renting is just sort of another subscription model. More. Boomers are also renting for convenience. They would rather play pickleball instead of mow a lawn. This is something that they figured out a while ago. Also higher consumer and educational debt keeps people renting. You've got buy now, pay later. Companies like Klarna that are booming and mortgage eligibility got sucked from souls when all this happened? Hey, I've got more a ton of reasons for why more and more people are renters today, and how this trend is your friend if you are a rental property investor. Keith Weinhold 8:13 Also, let's be mindful when we broke the gold standard in 1971 asset prices took off like a Blue Origin launch, and wages stagnated. That makes it tough to patch together a down payment and look, there is still an antiquated notion out there that apartments especially are like replete with paper thin walls and one in every five units is a meth lab. Have you toured apartment buildings, fourplexes, duplexes and single family rentals built in the last 10 years? Sheesh. Great amenities. Expect to see granite countertops, patios, fenced yards, gyms, sometimes even pet spas at Class A apartments, washer, dryer in unit. I mean, that has been standard for a long time, LED lighting, smart locks, increasingly office nooks for remote workers. Those are the modern amenities that you find in a rental. So the bottom line here is that as Americans age, there is an elongated renter stage of life. It's not just prices or rates, it is lifestyle. And this is why, even when affordability improves, the homeownership rate should continue to drop. More rental demand is coming. So yes, an elongated renter stage, this forever renter, if you will. That is somewhat about finances, but it is more, and this shapes the landlordtenant landscape for decades. And of course, your advantage here at GRE is even if you live in a High Cost part of the nation, we know how to buy here, say, a brand new build to rent single family property in an investor advantage place like Indiana, Missouri, Alabama or Florida, and we get it for, say, 300k or so, and you get a tenant that will pay you rent for four years or more in a lot of cases. So we've been talking about where the rental demand is coming from. It is both a lifestyle choice and a financial consideration for your tenant. Now this forever renter trend, that's something that really matters if you are providing housing to people. But some real estate trends just move so slowly, so glacier like that, you can kind of get lulled to sleep, until one day you look up and a trend has crystallized like the one that I just described. Let's compare a trend like that to something that people think matters a lot, and this does matter, but its importance is overinflated, and that is, for example, the President's nomination of a new Fed chair this year, and how that's going to move the real estate market. No, not as much as people think, as we've learned here, mortgage rates actually don't have that much to do with home prices. And yes, mortgage rates do move. They are correlated with the Fed funds rate. Yes, they are. When one is high, the other will be high. When one is low, the other will be low. They just don't move in direct lockstep. Let's listen in to the remarks of one Donald John Trump on the matter, because he talks about housing here. This is about a minute long, and then I come back to comment when Trump says him, he is apparently pointing to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who was in the room at the time, but as you'll hear, he's not expected to be the Fed Chair selection. Speaker 1 12:06 Have you started the interviews for the Fed chair? Yes. Who have you interviewed? Ithink I already know my choice well. I like to him, but he's not going to take the job very fast. You like Treasury better, right? Much better, sir. So we are talking to various people and the I mean, frankly, I'd love to get the guy currently, and they're out right now,but people are holding me back. He's done a terrible job, hurting housing a little bit. The truth is, we've been so successful, we've blown past his interest rate. Stupidity. He's been wrong. That's why I call him too late. He's too late. Jerome, too late. Powell, he was recommended to me by a guy that made a bad, you know, bad choice, and it's too bad. But despite that, it's having very little impact, because we have, you know, we have all of these things happening, but it has an impact on housing to a certain extent. He's a fool. He's a stupid man, but we have some very good people Keith Weinhold 13:09 yeah. So this matters, but it's as much entertainment and almost comedy against a demographic trend like the Forever renter propensity, a calendar year recently ended. It's time to make a quick rundown of the overall investing landscape. Once in a while we do that. It's good to check the movement on other asset classes outside real estate. It's our asset class rundown for last year, the s, p5, 100 was up nearly 17% that's the third year in a row of double digit gains in the year that Warren Buffett stepped down as CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, there's a warning. The S and P Schiller price to earnings ratio soared above 40 for only the second time in history. That's an indicator that stocks are overvalued. The only other time that happened was during the.com bubble in real estate, single family home values were up about 2% per the NAR just over 1% per Kay Shiller, apartment building values were flat to a slight decline. There is no such thing as an official apartment building Price Index, CPI inflation, up almost 3% on the year. It now hasn't been at the Fed's target of 2% or lower for a calendar year since 2019 Yeah, it has run hot all that time. Last year, mortgage rates fell from 6.9% to 6.2% and then, as you would expect, the yield on the 10 year treasury note also fell from 4.6 to 4.2 The dollar fell hard with a thud down 9% its worst performance since 2017 WTI oil prices fell from 70 bucks to $58 that's an 18% decline, but really the story of the year among all asset. Classes is what happened with precious metals, gold up a staggering 68% over the past year, touching an all time high of about $4,500 silver, up about 155% leaving investors flabbergasted and slack jawed, touching an all time high of over $80 platinum and palladium had near triple digit gains the real price of gold. This means inflation adjusted even jumped to its all time high last year, significantly surpassing the previous peaks of 1980 2011, and 2020. Realized this. More than 80% of all the recoverable gold on earth has already been extracted. Silver has been the top performing major asset class. In fact, today, a little one ounce silver coin is worth more than a 300 pound barrel of oil. Sticking with the topic of metals, inflation finally killed a penny. The last one was minted in 2025 in Philadelphia, ending a continuous run of the US minting the penny since 1792 no more. Bitcoin was down 6% falling from 93k to 87k the NASDAQ is aiming for near round the clock trading. It currently trades 16 hours a day, five days a week. They are looking to go up to 23 hours a day, five days a week in the second half of this year. That's our year end asset class rundown Keith Weinhold 16:34 coming up in future weeks of the get rich education podcast. I am going to do an episode on overpopulation versus underpopulation? Is the world over or underpopulated, and is the United States over or underpopulated? This obviously has huge implications for the housing market. Then on another episode, we're going to discuss a real estate axis strategy we've never discussed before, called the 721 exchange. Now you might have heard of the better known 1031 tax deferred exchange, but the 731 is different. When you get older as a property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore, you can sell your properties to a partnership. The 721 exchange dictates that this is not a taxable event, and therefore no capital gains taxes or depreciation recapture are due. Property owners still get the benefits of cash flow and the appreciation across a greater number of properties and markets, and it's a great estate planning tool as well. Yes, that's the 721, exchange. We are going to cover it here. When it comes to investment real estate, I guess we cover nearly everything that's coming up on a future episode. As for today, we're talking about property taxes, if they go away, what replaces them that comes up shortly? Visit get richeducation.com to learn more about how we help you and what we do, and to get connected with real estate. Pays five ways type of properties. Visit gre marketplace.com. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. Keith Weinhold 18:23 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989,yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 19:34 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind. Start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Jim Rickards 20:05 this is author Jim Rickards. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Keith Weinhold 20:22 Welcome back to get rich education. Episode 588 for the 12th consecutive year here, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I look forward to perhaps meeting you in person this coming weekend, as I'll be attending the real estate guys create your future goals retreat event in Colorado Springs. You probably remember that we have had the events host and leader, Robert Helms, of the real estate guys on the show with us here several times in the past. What a class act I am spending a few extra days after the event in Colorado Springs to both look at local real estate in that market and climb the Manitou incline, that's this grueling climbing challenge up a slope of Pikes Peak. If you want to climb with me after the real estate guys event, bring your running shoes and I'll lead a group of us up there Keith Weinhold 21:13 if property taxes go away, what replaces them? Realtor.com recently had a terrific article about this that you can look up the property tax revolt is spreading, but the replacement plan isn't let's look at the probability and possibility of eliminating property tax. Think about how property tax elimination would increase the value of your property well, because now every buyer could afford to pay more, since they won't have that property tax expense. And of course, if you were to remove property tax as a line item from your income and expense statement, your cash flow could double, triple, or even five or 10x depending on your current cash, on cash return. But that cash flow part is less likely because most efforts to eliminate the property tax, they focus on homes, primary residences. Well, several states have either active legislation efforts or these sort of informal grassroots movements to significantly cut down or just totally abolish property tax, but...
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587: Play to Win: Stop Waiting for “Perfect Conditions”
01/05/2026
587: Play to Win: Stop Waiting for “Perfect Conditions”
Keith explores why the real goal of building wealth isn’t luxury—it’s protecting yourself from the emotional and practical pain of money stress. You’ll hear how owning the right kinds of assets can change your lifestyle options over time, and why waiting on the sidelines can quietly erode your financial future. Keith also pulls back the curtain on a major, often overlooked force that has helped keep real estate values resilient for years, and what that means for anyone thinking about adding more property to their portfolio. Finally, you’ll get a sense of the kinds of opportunities and strategies listeners are using right now to move from just getting by to playing to win in their wealth building journey. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, more important than building wealth is avoiding poverty. It's backed up by research. Learn about a force that constantly gives a boost to real estate values that you probably haven't considered before, and own assets or get left behind. I discuss a plan for doing it today on get rich education. Speaker 1 0:29 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:14 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:30 Welcome to GRE from Dar es Salaam Tanzania to Darlington, South Carolina, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education the voice of real estate investing since 2014 and it's a new year, part of the reason why you need to build durable wealth for yourself is actually not to be wealthy. It's really to avoid a lack of wealth. It's in order to pad yourself against poverty. Now, shortly, I want to talk to you more aspirationally if you are or soon plan to make 500k per year or more. Keith Weinhold 2:15 But first, there are a number of studies that show that beyond a certain level, more wealth barely increases your happiness level. In fact, if you ask many people, they say that doubling their income or doubling their net worth is what they really want, like, that's their goal. Like, in their mind, that's the benchmark in which they've made it. And you know what, when they double their income, though, then they want to double it again. They think that that is the next benchmark. So there can be this endless amount of wanting, because once you've doubled, you just want to keep doubling. But what's really more important is padding against money problems, because if having a little more doesn't change your happiness much, well, it's poverty that can really diminish a level of happiness and fulfillment in your life. So money problems don't just hurt your wallet. They actually hurt your emotions. And this isn't just some motivational poster idea, the statistics are clear. Multiple studies show that when money is scarce, when paying the regular bills feels like a monthly street fight, people report more sadness, more worry and even depression, not just sometimes, but constantly. The reality is that about 71% of Americans say that money is a major source of stress. My gosh, more than seven out of 10. So that's not a fringe category. That's the norm that say money is a major source of stress. Another study found that 42% of adults say money negatively affects their mental health. So close to half of the people walking around you right now feel emotionally beat up by their financial situation, and the gap gets even wider when you compare groups, when people experience serious financial hardship, nearly half, 49% show signs of depression among people without any financial hardship, only about 11% of that group show signs of depression. And Northwestern Mutual did an extensive study on all this. So it's not just a small difference, it's a completely different emotional reality, almost like two separate worlds. To put it plainly. For you, money will not guarantee happiness, but a lack of money can absolutely fuel sadness, and this matters. Because financial confidence isn't just about dollars. It's about dignity. It's about feeling like you're able to breathe, and it's about believing that your future can be bigger than your past. I mean, the research also shows the relationship flows in both directions. Money stress can make mental health worse, and poor mental health can make financial decision making harder. So it's sort of this loop, this cycle. And what breaks the cycle? It's not luck. It's not hoping the economy magically fixes all of its problems. It is going on offense, taking steps that build security instead of surrender, for most people, that turning point comes when they start owning assets, not just paying bills. It comes when money stops being a source of fear and it starts being a tool. Because though we focus on real estate investing here at GRE but ultimately it is a lifestyle improvement show. And before we're done today, I'm going to talk about what you can actionably do to go on offense. Now, what if you already have a higher income, or you expect to make a high income in the near term, if you're earning roughly $500,000 per year or more, and you value time efficiency in making sure that you don't live a rough quality of life. You are on the threshold of a tier that helps ensure that you can avoid some misery. Yes, there is a step change here that can help ensure you have a higher standard of living. Do you know what I might be talking about? Any idea 500k of income is where it begins now. It's only beginning here. At this point, to make sense, where you tilt into starting to fly private instead of flying commercial. Yeah, private flights. Now your situation is going to depend on more than just the income. It's whether or not you're single or you have kids and more, but it's at this income level where you can start to cover a $10,000 flight without biting into your essential living expenses. It's most justifiable when your time savings or your productivity gains translate into real value. I'm talking about things like business deals, meetings and schedules and the benefits of flying privately are pretty significant. Time efficiency is the real superpower here, drive up to the plane, wheels up in minutes. The flexibility is there. You can leave pretty much when you want. You can change your flight plans mid trip if you need to. You get access to smaller airports. That means you can land closer to your final destination and skip big city traffic congestion. You've got privacy and security, no crowds, no TSA stuff. You've got quality of experience, comfort, quiet cabins, custom catering, no competing for overhead bin space. Now even affordable private is still pretty expensive. It is substantially more than first class commercial seats, and I have had limited experience flying private, but at 500k of income, flying private can still feel like a stretch, even though it's doable for you, a more comfortable range is a million dollars or more of annual income, that's when private flights feel much easier to justify for business or lifestyle. Now, with $2 million of annual income or more, most heavy private flyers live here in this range, the $2 million plus income level, they can charter, they can fractionally own, or they can use memberships, all with less stress. When you earn this much, and if you're ultra high net worth, we're talking about $5 million worth of income plus or $20 million worth of net worth plus, well, then private flying is really commonplace. This is where you often have a personal jet, concierge services and flexibility on demand. So as the first episode of the year here, I want to give you some opportunity to dream and goal set. Yeah, you need to stretch out and give space to your aspirations sometimes, and this is a good time to do that, really, though, a more important reason for increasing your income and net worth is that it helps you avoid the discomfort of poverty. But yeah, come on, if nothing else, can you believe that before every commercial flight you have to hear that nonsense about how to inflate a raft if you're. Plane crashes in the water, or you could use your seat as a personal flotation device. Come on your seat. Can't even support your back for a three hour flight. If there's ever been a reason to invest Well, it's so that you never have to hear that stuff again before every flight chase Keith Weinhold 10:19 last week here on the show, you'll learn more about how stable real estate prices are, why prices have never crashed in your entire life, and also why they can't double in one year. Real Estate is too slow moving 30 days between you making your offer and you closing the deal, that's actually considered pretty fast. In fact, if national home prices ever crash, I will legally change my first name to Fabrice, yes, Fabrice, I would also do that if they doubled in a year. It is almost impossible for either of those things to happen. You learned about how these things have not happened in your entire lifetime on last week's show, yes, even in 2008 in the last 85 years, nominal home prices have risen every single year, except seven of them now. Why is that? Why are the prices of US housing so resilient and just keep going up up up, almost inexorably? Well, it's actually more than just the main well documented reasons that you know about and that we've talked about here. It's about more than these attributes, like population growth, household formation, wage growth, inflation, eroding the currency and land scarcity in desirable areas beyond all of those, one reason that home values just keep going up, up up and are expected to rise again this year is something that We have not discussed yet, and that is government intervention? Yes, in the US and a lot of world places, housing is not a free market. We have a free ish market that sort of comes with training wheels and support animals. Think about how the government helps ensure that home prices stay propped up even through most recessions. We're talking about attributes like ever expanding loan access and mortgage interest deductibility. Then there's depreciation in write offs for investors like us and property tax structures that lag market value when loans have lower down payment requirements or a lowering of credit score requirements and ever expanding loan limits in terms of dollar amounts, well, that increases the demand for those that have the capacity to pay, and it nudges up prices even more incentives, like deducting your mortgage interest in tax depreciation when you don't even have a real expense, but yet you get to write it off anyway. It all heaps on the government driven demand for real estate Now none of these individual things, these government interventions, raise prices overnight, they increase demand structurally. There's evidence that the government is doing even more in recent years to prop up housing demand than they have in the past. This is increasingly a propensity to not let housing fail like it did in 2008 I mean, just look at covid During 2020, and 2021, what a glaring example of how government will prop up home values and not let them fall down if you lost your job during covid. Oh, we'll give you mortgage loan forbearance. That's where you could skip. Oh, just say nine monthly payments, and then you can just tack those nine payments onto the end of your 30 year loan and make those payments decades from now. There was a foreclosure moratorium in effect then too, so you've got forbearance and low rates and stimulus checks and a ban on foreclosures. Well, all of that helped borrowers make payments, and that supported home price growth. There was no fire sailing, really, that could have taken place then, and you will recall that during that time period, in fact, the year 2021 national home prices soared 19% so housing is not a completely free market. You really don't have to look very far to know that. I mean, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are both still government sponsored and still in conservatorship. And here's the thing, so far, I've only talked about how government has propped up the demand side. Side of the market. I've only talked about half of it. Don't forget the sometimes unintentional supply restriction the governments induce as well keeping housing supply in check. Well, that helps drive price appreciation. I'm talking about the zoning spaghetti that new homebuilders have to navigate through the permit purgatory, minimum lot sizes that can seem larger than some European countries, environmental reviews that last longer than the movie Avengers. Endgame was that a three hour, two minute movie, all of these roadblocks limit new housing supply that makes it harder to build. So governments provide an ever present tailwind to housing values by both boosting demand and by crimping supply. Government amplifies these forces, sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally, but the result is the same propping up housing values. If all these years since coming out of the Great Recession have shown us anything, and the 2020 pandemic reinforced it, it is to either own assets or get left behind. You've got to own assets or you will be left behind, and that's whether you're trying to stay away from poverty, like I talked about at the top of the show, or whether you're aiming to fly private instead of commercial, something more aspirational, really. That's the lesson I've got more straight ahead here. There will only ever be one get rich education podcast episode 587 and you're listening to it. Keith Weinhold 16:43 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 17:54 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Dana Dunford 18:27 this is hemlane's co founder, Dana Dunford. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Keith, Keith Weinhold 18:45 welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking about new angles with respect to how the future belongs to asset owners. Every year, people say, This is my year, but only a few actually take the action to back that up and make it come true. One thing that I've learned is that people love saying, I want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Unfortunately, certainty only shows up after opportunity is gone. History is full of people who walked past moments like this now owning more of an asset like real estate today, and instead they just look and say, Oh, it's probably nothing. Well, what about alternatives? What's your employer's plan for you? I mean, really, what's a typical employer's plan for employees spend 40 years here at this desk, and I guarantee that you'll become moderately comfortable with a nice 401K balance that you can start withdrawing from by the time you're age 65 at which time you'll start paying taxes on it too. So really, that's it. That's their plan for you. Yes, that's their plan for you. Though, as you know, I do not forecast mortgage rates. No one, not one analyst or rating agency, expects mortgage rates to fall substantially any time soon as we look at the real estate landscape, in fact, among 21 different major research groups, which include PNC Bank, Redfin, Moody's, wells, Fargo, the NAR totality, if you average what their forecasts are, one year from now, mortgage rates are expected to be at the same level that they are today, which is about 6.2% if you want to add more assets, prices are probably only going to be higher one year from now. The Fed is involved in QE like behavior again, which resumed last month, that gives the effect of more money printing, and it provides an environment for a continued price run up across not just real estate, but nearly every asset class. Current CPI inflation is 2.7% and long term inflation expectations are elevated. The Fed is cutting rates. The current Fed funds rate is about 3.6% and the President wants the Fed funds rate cut to 1% central banks are stockpiling gold, and the US dollar just had its worst year since 2017 so a lot is lining up to keep supporting housing values. Now, when we zoom out, starting back in 2012 us home prices have now risen 14 years in a row, and the average annual gain since that time is about 6% which is sustainable and close to historic norms. Year after year. Some people keep waiting for the right moment, and meanwhile, the right moment just keeps passing them by. And look, now here's a really interesting way for you to look at things from a long time investor like me, I have bought a wide variety of investment real estate over the years. I bought single family homes to both live in and single family homes to rent out vacant land, agricultural parcels, small apartment buildings and larger apartment buildings on every single one at the time when I purchased it, it was the most that anyone...
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586: Why US Home Prices Have NEVER Crashed, GRE's 2026 Home Price Appreciation Forecast
12/29/2025
586: Why US Home Prices Have NEVER Crashed, GRE's 2026 Home Price Appreciation Forecast
Keith shares a mindset-shifting quote from John D. Rockefeller that challenges the idea of trading time for money. He revisits some of the year’s most powerful real estate investing lessons, and breaks down the big forces shaping today’s housing market—affordability, supply & demand, demographics, and interest rates. All of this sets the stage for his data-driven national home price outlook for next year—without the usual crash-and-doom hype. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:00 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, learn from a quote attributed to the world's first billionaire, it will change how you see wealth building. I'll explain why national home prices have never crashed. Then it's gre, 2026, home price appreciation forecast. You'll learn the future the exact percent that home prices will appreciate or depreciate next year. Today on get rich education Speaker 1 0:29 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:14 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:30 Welcome to GRE from Lake Huron, Michigan to Lake Tahoe, California and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. You know something I love, quotes that shift your entire mindset, paradigm, and once your mind is shifted, actions follow. Actions develop into patterns. Those patterns become habits, and habits become the new, transformed you few quotes hit harder than the one from resource tycoon John D Rockefeller. He lived from 1839 to 1937 in fact, Rockefeller is widely regarded as the world's first billionaire. His quote, you might have heard it before. It is this, he who works all day has no time to make money. That sounds paradoxical, even provocative. It's sort of like it's inviting you to come in and want to learn more about it. And this is because most people's concept of income generating is to work 40 hours a week for a salary or an hourly wage. But what does that quote really mean? He who works all day has no time to make money, and be sure to capture the all day part of that quote that ties right back into the show that I did with you two weeks ago about the K shaped economy breakdown, where you learned about how capital compounds labor doesn't most people sell their time for dollars, but trading time for money makes you too busy to actually build Wealth. Working and building wealth. Those things are two separate distinct activities in how you're investing your time and energy. Now, most people start out with a wage or a salary job. I surely worked by pushing brooms and cubicle dwelling before investing in my first rental property. But if you're working all day in a job, physically or mentally well, then you're consumed by tasks that only pay you. Once you're occupied, you can often get exhausted and you're only concerned with short term output. You're focused on the next deadline, not the next decade, when all your hours are spent on labor, you have no bandwidth to do what you need to do, which is, create vision, acquire assets, build a portfolio, develop systems, learn tax strategy, evaluate investment deals, network with like minded investors, or refine your strategy with a GRE investment coach. Be cognizant that labor only pays today. Wealth building pays forever. Even if your work a day job, salary doubled, you would have to ask, how would that even build wealth? You could retire earlier, but you would have to keep working the hours, and let's remember that wealth equals freedom. You can't architect a wealth plan from the assembly line. Now, that's something that Rockefeller would have agreed with. Wealth requires less. Leverage and labor has none. So working all day means no leverage. You are the engine instead making money, that means using leverage, and instead of you being the engine, well, the engine is something else, like assets, systems, technology, other people's time, other people's money, and borrowing to inflation profit. Rockefeller believed and proved that leverage beats labor 100 to one. He's not discouraging work. In fact, it's just the wrong type of work, because he was one of the hardest working people alive. And really the bottom line here, with this quote, he who works all day has no time to make money, is that Rockefeller meant that if you spend your life doing tasks, you'll never rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. Earning a living is a different activity than building wealth, and once your mindset is shifted, actions follow, yep, actions develop into patterns, and those patterns become the new you. well as the last episode of the year on the show here, 52 weeks worth, I sure hope that I've helped you think, learn and grow your wealth, as have our guest contributors here early in the year, the father of Reaganomics was here, a man that frequently advised a president inside the White House. He told us how much he dislikes tariffs. Tariffs block free trade, and trade improves our lives. Major apartment investor, Ken McElroy, was here this year, and he predicted that the American home ownership rate will fall below 60% that would be major it's currently at 65 if the home ownership rate falls to 60% that would unleash millions of new renters into the market, and it has not been that low in decades, if ever you got a lot of mortgage insights with chailey Ridge, including learning how you can qualify for income property loans without a w2 job, without a pay stub or without tax returns by instead getting a DSCR loan. You'll recall this year that I discussed 50 year mortgages, and I did that before it even hit the news cycle, telling you that it could be coming and that it could be proposed. I explained why I like 50 year mortgages more than 30 year loans, but be aware it is not imminent that they're coming. Also this year, economist Richard Duncan and commentator Doug Casey discussed the Fed. Richard told us how the President is trying to totally restructure who serves on the Fed, trying to get low interest rate pushers in there. And then just last week, Doug and I discussed how fed decisions just keep hollowing out the middle class. A and E television star Todd drillette told us how to negotiate. I had four good discussions with our own investment coach, nuresh this year, more than usual, a pastor and I discussed a rare topic, what the Bible says about money. You learned how to use AI in your real estate investing and when not to. We had a few episodes about that. But above all the shows this year, they were about you, probably more than any other year that we've had here. I did more listener question episodes where I answered your questions as you wrote in, and I also had more listeners come right onto the show and tell me how this show has personally built their wealth. And of course, this year, I got to meet more of you in person when I served as a faculty member on the terrific real estate guys Investor Summit to see and I got to meet you personally for more than just a handshake. The event was set up so that chances are you had dinner with me as well. So rather than this show being a one way chat from me to you this year was more of a dialog between you and I and more two way communication. A lot of new topics are coming for next year, both me teaching and some great guests. If there's something on the show that you'd like to hear more of or less of, let us know. Write into us or use your voice to tell us either way you can do that. At get rich education.com/contact, let us know what you want to hear more of or less of. Do you like shorter term tactics like when and how to increase the rent? Or do you like mid range tactics like how to constantly do cash out refinances and get a tax free windfall from your properties every year. Or do you like more of the long term strategies like specifically how you profit from inflation? Let us know what you like again, at get rich education.com/contact, now, even if you're listening 10 years. Years from now, which I know you very well. May, I'm going to break down next year's home price appreciation forecast, but I'll do it in a way where you'll learn how to analyze a market for all time coming up. It's gre 2026, national home price appreciation forecast. Learn the future to the exact percent. First listen to this from Freedom family investments and Ridge lending group, because I'm a client of both myself and they can help you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold Keith Weinhold 10:29 you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family, investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Speaker 2 11:40 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Robert Kiyosaki 12:14 this is our Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold. And there is, I respect Kate. He's a very strong, smart, bright young man. Keith Weinhold 12:35 Welcome back to get rich education. It's episode 586 the last show of the year. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I am proud to present to you in this segment of the show gre 2026, national home price appreciation forecast, where I use my insight and experience so that you'll learn the exact percent that national home prices will either appreciate or depreciate next year. It's the fifth consecutive year that we're doing this. I nailed the first three spot on and then this year happened. I'll get to reviewing my track record, total accountability. First understand something, real estate values have never crashed in your entire lifetime, even if you're 90 years old, to grab eyeballs, slack jawed, tick tock. Call them crash talk. Economists keep making awful predictions about a housing price crash, and none of them have been worse than one that published last month in Newsweek, which outlines a as it's called, correction worse than 2008 and says national home prices will fall 50% five zero, starting as soon as next year. That's absurd, and I can't believe that a respectable publication would platform a view from an analyst like that, and I'm not going to call out that Doomsayer analyst's name. That's not my style. I'm sure you can find it that crash is about as likely as one social media post changing your political affiliation later today. Look, doomsayers don't care about you. They make dire predictions because they care about them. It elevates their clicks, their followers and their name recognition, and they never hang around to follow up on that prediction, but it harms you, because you miss out on the equity gains, and that's the real damage. In fact, this particular analyst also called for this year to have the second largest home price decline since World War Two. Well, national home prices have only fallen twice in that time period. In fact, going further back. Back to the 1930s Great Depression. They've only fallen twice. Yes, that means home prices have risen every single year since the 1930s except for two periods, a small decline of less than 1% around 1990 and then, of course, the severe downturn from the housing bubble and great recession from 2007 to 2011 or 2012 that's where prices dropped in total, 25 to 26% from peak to trough. Now why do I say that that period around 2008 was not a housing price crash. Well, because it wasn't. Instead, it was a slow bleed. The definition of financial crash is a sudden, sharp and widespread drop in prices. That's the definition. Well that can happen in some other asset classes like stocks or Bitcoin or perhaps even precious metals, but not real estate. It is neither sudden nor sharp. The worst year, 2008 saw home prices drop 12% in that one year and some of the other years bracketing it, home prices fell three to 4% in each of those years. So then during this time period of price attrition, during the global financial crisis, each month, real estate values fell just a few tenths of 1% maybe half of 1% or even one full percent, not a crash, a slow bleed. This means that it took about five years for values to fall, a total of near 25% I mean, that makes it really clear that it's not a crash. And again, this period was about 2007 to 2012 don't get me wrong, it was bad. I was a real estate investor both before and during 2008 but to call it a crash is hyperbolic, and that is because words mean things. I think a lot of media consumers get so conditioned to mass media sensationalism that they've forgotten what a crash even means. At some point, it begins to bend our very lexicon back around 2007 I remember I frequently checked a website called implode meter. Yeah, that's the name of it. It tracks, failing banks. I looked the other day and implodemeter.com is still in existence, even though it's not nearly as spicy as it used to be during the GFC, because lending has been pretty stable for a long time, and loans are well and carefully underwritten. So home prices are unusually stable over time, because, in a sense, housing is not a normal market. It is slow, regulated, credit driven, and it's emotionally sticky, even though rental property is less emotional. Well, the values of one to four unit property are tied to primary residence values, and that's where the emotion exists. So if you put all those together, you get prices that creep upward most years and rarely fall at all. Nationally. The real estate market moves too gradually to be crash susceptible. It is the place for real wealth building values also are not going to double annually if you want to scroll for dopamine hits from the couch. Well, you can do that with a prediction market like call she or in crypto with altcoins, while your real estate keeps leveraging dollars in a stable way in the background. That's how you can think about it. All right, so we've established since the Great Depression, home values have fallen twice and once substantially. Well, right now, home prices are up about 2% year over year. Most places have appreciated, especially the more affordable markets. Not only has home price growth been slow, though, rent growth has been slow as well. Single Family rents are up 1% per totality. Apartment rents are down one to 2% per Zumper. But back to our focus today, forecasting national home prices. Everything we're discussing is nominal price change, meaning not inflation adjusted, and it's single family homes up to fourplexes. Well, as we use context to build up to the big reveal today, where I'll tell you the exact percent that home prices will rise or fall next year. Could 2008 happen again any time soon? Let's isolate that out. It's important to look at history rather than. Having some uninformed hunch in both periods with price attrition around 1990 and 2008 these two falls have some attributes in common. So let's look at that. What led to these rare falls in home prices, irresponsible lending, forced selling, a vacancy issue and overbuilding. All four of those factors were in place during those two periods now leading up to 1990 the irresponsible lending was on the commercial side. That was the savings and loan crisis, but it did trickle into the residential market, and then in 2008 it was on the residential side. But of all four of those factors, none of them are in place today. Zero borrowers are strongly underwritten because they've got those full documentation loans, and virtually no one is forced to sell in a fire sale. In fact, homeowners still have these record equity positions of about 300k fewer than 3% of homeowners have a negative equity position, and there is no vacancy issue. Because, in fact, we've been under building. We'll look at that. So for next year, no substantial price of drawdown is coming. None's expected. We can isolate that out. Since I was investing directly in real estate through 2008 I know what happened is that when people walked away from properties, they did so because the economy got rough, their variable rate mortgages rose, they couldn't make their payments, or they just had no motivation to make their payments because they were underwater and had zero protective equity. In a lot of cases, it's almost impossible for that to happen today, homeowners can make their payments, and they're motivated to do so because they have that erstwhile equity to protect, like I said last week, through the Census Bureau data and realtor.com we know a couple things. Four in 10 homeowners have no mortgage at all. They own their property free and clear. Among the group with mortgages, 70% of borrowers still have a mortgage rate locked in at under 5% and blending those together for you means that then 82% of borrowers either have no mortgage or they've got a rate under 5% this translates to really affordable payments, along with The protective equity, even if inflation heats up again, it still cannot touch a borrower's mortgage payment amount because it is fixed. As we're leading up to the big reveal of next year's number, we're about to look at affordability, supply, demand and...
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585: The Fed's Quiet War on the Middle Class with Doug Casey
12/22/2025
585: The Fed's Quiet War on the Middle Class with Doug Casey
Keith discusses the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) new regulations on rental pricing transparency, following a settlement with Greystar. Legendary author, Doug Casey, joins the conversation to argue that the Federal Reserve is waging a quiet war on the middle class. Casey explains that by creating trillions of new fiat dollars to push interest rates lower, the Fed fuels inflation, which erodes savings, distorts markets, and quietly reduces the average American’s standard of living. He warns of an impending economic downturn due to inflation and government debt. Resources: Find the FTC article . Visit to read Doug Casey’s weekly articles and watch his “” videos on YouTube. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the Fed keeps escalating their quiet war against the middle class. I'm talking about it with one of the most influential financial figures of the past century. Today, also what the recent FTC decision on rents means to real estate on get rich education. Speaker 1 0:25 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold rights for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:11 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:27 Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, let's get right into it, as there's a lot to cover here on our last big show before Christmas. Briefly before we get to the Fed's quiet war against the middle class the Federal Trade Commission just fired off a warning shot to landlords, and here's the translation about what this means to you, advertise your real all in rent amount with mandatory fees included in that amount or expect company and by company, the FTC means attorneys, paperwork and a long headache, and I'll tell you why I think this is a good thing. But really, first what this is all about is that it stems from the antecedent settlement with the massive global real estate company greystar, about transparent pricing. You might know that greystar is the massive global real estate company. They specialize in rental housing. In fact, greystar is the largest apartment operator in the entire US. They're in about 250 markets. The FTC cracked down on greystars add on fees, those fees added on to the rent amount that aren't clear and transparent right from the beginning. Now, in their case, it's things like Package Concierge charges, valet, trash service fees and some of these other line items that magically appear after a renter has already emotionally moved into a unit. Now for your rentals, they might be other things like Pest Control fees, gym fees, pet fees, utility add ons and notice that I use the word might, because clarification is still being sought here, but suffice to say, the least that you should know is really three things, advertise a rental price that excludes mandatory charges and that could be a violation of the law. So then state the total cost of renting the unit up front, no fine print gymnastics. Secondly, do a compliance check. You need to review your ads to confirm that they honestly convey your rental unit's price. That includes working with third party marketing vendors like Zillow or Facebook marketplace to see if they accurately state the all in price, because if they understate the price, it's still your problem. And thirdly, know that the FTC is reviewing harmful practices in the rental housing market. They'll take action against landlords that try to hide mandatory fees, so no hide and seek. And the FTC resource is in our show notes, and I sent it to you in last week's newsletter as well, if you want to read it, all my take here is that this type of transparency is a good thing. I mean, come on, we all know how annoying it is if, say, an airline states like, Hey, we've got prices to this destination. You can fly there for as low as $200 Yeah, but what if it's a 28 hour, four layover journey to fly 300 miles? Okay? What about buying an event ticket to go to a music concert and say you've already got 10 minutes wrapped up in this, but they don't show you the final price with all the fees until you've already invested that 10 minutes a. Then you learn about this in your shopping cart. So that type of thing is deceptive, all right. Well, what this FTC case does is it eliminates that effect in the rental housing market. So if you're a landlord, your competitors shouldn't be able to advertise base rents minus fees against your unit that appears higher priced than it's really not. And then for renters, I mean, the clarity helps expedite their search process. So this lets good assets compete on real value, and that is good business. Now, as far as the Fed controlling the economy, Jerome Powell announced interest rate cuts both last year and some more again this year, and though the effect isn't immediate, mortgage rates do come down with them. Mortgage rates have also fallen this year because the yield spread premium is lower. And you know what the prevailing sentiment is among a lot of armchair economists, it is squarely this, you ain't seen nothing for cuts yet. People say, Oh, watch, once Trump gets his guy in there in May, meaning that's when the newly appointed Fed chair is in power. Oh, you're really going to see some giant rate cuts then, yeah. I mean, a lot of people talk about this like it's certainly coming. They say then the Fed funds rate is going to go way down, meaning mortgage rates are then going to go way down, meaning that home prices are therefore going to soar next year. Well, all that could happen, but it is nowhere close to the certainty camp for everything to respond exactly that way. As you know, as a listener here, paradoxically, mortgage rates have little to do with home prices. Look at history over hunches. In fact, it might be more likely that those things don't happen and don't all break exactly that way, then the probability that they do, and that quickly gets into conjecture territory. As we know, lowering rates is bad too, because it signals that a weak economy needs the help. Typically. What could be different this next time. Well, whether we're in a good or a bad economy, Trump still wants lower rates, and he really imposes his will on the situation. Keith Weinhold 7:30 We're about to bring in the author of a new book called The preparation. It's about preparing for the economic future. A lot of the book is mostly for young men and their parents, but we'll speak to both females and males. Today is the middle class both worse off and in a way, better off today than they were a generation or two ago. Talk to your grandparents. They didn't pay for a college education. They didn't get one. They rarely ate out at restaurants. They didn't have a smartphone, which is now practically mandatory to even exist. Today, people are paying for all of that, so no wonder that prospective first time homebuyers almost seem to be going extinct. Let's meet this week's guest. Keith Weinhold 8:21 Are we going to get a painful financial reset in the form of runaway inflation, a market crash or something else? We'll answer that before we're done today, the Fed is engaged in a quiet war against the middle class. They are going to create trillions more Fiat dollars to lower interest rates further and create inflation that's according to today's guest. He is the International man himself, a legendary and generationally popular author, and he does a lot more than that. He's back with us for a sobering look at this today. Hey, welcome in. Doug Casey, Doug Casey 8:57 Thanks, Keith. It's nice to be here with you, although care for me is in Buenos Aires, Argentina, where I spend a good part of the year. Keith Weinhold 9:05 Such a nice place, good year round weather. There. A piece you recently wrote is titled, The Fed's quiet war against the middle class. The Fed recently announced that they're stopping Qt, which basically means they're stopping the destruction of dollars and opening the floodgates to print dollars. You've been known to say that the level of interest rates is the most important single indicator of an economy, and the Fed has made several quarter point cuts over the last year plus, although the President is supposed to stay independent of Fed influence. Oh my gosh, he has been more vocal than any other president ever over how badly he wants low rates. What are your thoughts with regard to all this Doug? Doug Casey 9:53 Well, the Fed, which most people have been taught to believe, is part of the cosmic firmament. Right? It should be abolished. It serves no useful purpose. The Fed is an engine of inflation. It's what creates Federal Reserve notes. It's an engine of inflation and purely destructive, and it's used by the government to finance itself. So that's the first thing I've got to say. And they don't know what interest rates should be. Neither does Trump neither does anybody else. That's for the market to determine right and interest rates are set by the amount of savings that's done by the people and the amount of borrowing that's done by other people. The problem is with the Fed printing up lots and lots of money, which they are through the banking system, it makes it rather foolish to be a saver. In other words, if you produce more than you consume, which is something everybody should do, you want to save the difference. That's how you become wealthy. But if they destroy the currency with inflation, it's pointless to save, and if there's no savings, there's no capital to lend. This is why we're sliding off a slippery slope in the direction of a third world country where there's no savings, where the money's no good, it's a real problem. I think the average American, despite increases in technology that we've benefited from over many years, the average American has found his standard of living go down a lot, and it's basically because of the destruction of the currency that makes it impossible for him to save and get ahead of things, and results in wild and crazy moves in the stock markets and the real estate markets and the interest rate markets, where things become unpredictable. So everybody's being turned into a speculator, whether they like it or not, and frankly, we're headed towards a real reckoning in the US and in the world generally. So my approach at this point is to hold on to your hat, because we're in for rough running in the years Keith Weinhold 12:14 to come. To create low rates, the Fed basically needs to create trillions of new Fiat dollars. Tell us about how that works. Doug Casey 12:25 Well, it's a question of the supply and demand of money. You've got two things happening. Number one, when the Fed has quantitative easing, as they call it, which basically means inflating the dollar. Quantitative easing, or QE is just a nice word for inflating the dollar. They're increasing the supply of dollars out there. You increase the supply of dollars, the price of money goes down in the short run, but in the long run, the value of the dollar also goes down. And nobody's going to lend money if they can't get more in interest than it's being depreciated at. So you've got these two forces fighting against each other making for an unstable system. That's why I say that look before 1933 and when Roosevelt took gold out of the dollar, or in fact, before 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created, before that, there was no central bank. There was no Federal Reserve in the US. Money was just a medium of exchange and a store of value. It wasn't a political commodity, which it is now. Today, everybody is looking at the government to do something to make a decision to raise rates. Some people want them higher or lower them. Some people want them lower. But this is for the market to decide. It shouldn't be a political decision. Keith Weinhold 13:53 Low rates, which most think are coming, produce an inflationary environment, which then means that longer term, there need to be new higher rates in order to combat that. Doug Casey 14:05 Well, what we've got is a situation where conflicting advice and beliefs are causing rates, and indeed, most of the economy, to go up and down like an elevator with a lunatic at the controls. And actually, that's a very good analogy. Keith Weinhold 14:22 And low rates to your earlier point, Doug, they don't encourage anyone to save. And you know what? Government policy doesn't encourage anyone to save either in times of crisis, like, look what happened during covid. Oh my gosh, if these people can't go to work and generate an income, they don't have any savings, obviously. So then let's go ahead and intervene even more and send them stimulus checks, basically a bailout. So low rates discourage anyone from saving, but so does our policy, because every time there's a big catastrophe, oh, they just come in with a safety net anyway. That's Part. The reason why we have such a problem with capital formation of the average American today? Doug Casey 15:04 Well, it's actually worse than that, because over generations, a lot of debt has built up in the country. In other words, to maintain your standard of living, a lot of people have borrowed. They've done this either by taking the savings of past generations and borrowing it or mortgaging their personal futures. Either way, look, if you and I went out and borrowed a million dollars today, we could raise our standard of living artificially, sure, for the next year, but at the end of that year, we have to pay back the million dollars to lost interest, and that artificial rise in our standard of living will result in a very real decline in our standard of living. And a great deal of the borrowing that's been done to stimulate the economy through the banking system is for consumption, not for production. In other words, a lot of the borrowing is not to create new technologies and new infrastructure and new capital goods to create more wealth. A lot of it's just stuff that you wind up. People are borrowing things to fill their basements and their garages with more junk, consumer borrowing, borrowing for vacations, borrowing for to go to music, shows, all kinds of things. This has become a habit in the US, right? So let's look. It's going to end very badly. It's going to end and is ending as we speak, actually, in what I call the greater depression. It's going to be what we're looking at here, largely because of monetary manipulation, but also because taxes have gone up, up, up, up from zero level. Basically, in 1913 there were no income taxes in the US, the US government lived exclusively on minimal tariffs and excise duties. But today, there's right and they're very high, high levels of inflation, high levels of borrowing. So I think we're coming to the end of the road, as far as that's concerned. And it's bad news. Of course, most of the real wealth in the world, when you have a financial collapse, when you have a depression, most of the real wealth still exists. It just changes ownership, that's all so you want to position yourself so that you're not too adversely affected by what's coming Keith Weinhold 17:31 this inflation and more coming inflation pumping up the asset values of the asset owners and then ruining the lifestyles of those in the lower middle class and making them trend down lower since they spend a greater proportion of their income on everyday needs like clothing and food, which is a small proportion of people that are well off and the poor don't have the assets to benefit from that inflation. And you know, Doug, it wasn't until I read your recent article that I realized something that initially the fed only had one mandate, price stability, and then later they added that maximum employment was their second mandate. I didn't realize that. So really, it's been an expansion of what they're paying attention to, and a de facto expansion of their powers and influence and control. Doug Casey 18:23 Well, actually, they have a third mandate now, which is to control long term interest rates, to prop up the mortgage market, to prop up the real estate market. Because, as you know, the real estate market floats on a sea of debt, and if you can't get a mortgage, if you can't borrow, you can't buy real estate, or, for that matter, you can't sell it. So this makes it a very unstable situation, and most people are unaware of the fact that before the last depression, the longest mortgage you could get was five years, and that was with a 20% down payment. So things have changed a lot since then, and the more debt you use to finance anything, the more unstable things become. And the fact that things have become so unstable, and the average guy's standard of living has been sinking, and he has more credit card debt, more mortgage debt, more automobile debt. Used to be paid cash for a car, then was financed for two years and five and seven, and then it was leased where you never even owned it. I mean, this is, this is a trend that's coming to an end at this point, so it's going to be quite a comeuppance for people. Keith Weinhold 19:42 I think long term financing and the easing of getting financing makes the cost of anything higher. There's probably no greater example than that of what has happened with college tuition over the decades. But you know Doug, when we talk about this centrally planned economy. Rather than letting free market forces take over, I love it. I just absolutely love it when the answer to a problem is actually doing less than what you're currently doing, let go of the reins, rather than the Fed controlling interest rates. If there were a free market doing it, you would have bank loan rates that couldn't become too high, or else they wouldn't attract borrowers. So rates would naturally fall, and then you also couldn't have bank loan rates that are too low, because you've got to compensate the bank for bad borrower risk. So rates would come up, and they would find some natural level, kind of to the point that you made earlier. There...
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584: The K-Shaped Economy for Real Estate Investors: Capital Compounds. Labor Doesn't.
12/15/2025
584: The K-Shaped Economy for Real Estate Investors: Capital Compounds. Labor Doesn't.
Keith discusses the K-shaped economy, where income from capital assets is rising while labor income is declining. In 1965, 50% of income came from labor and 50% from capital; by 1990, it was 54% and 46%, respectively, and today it's 57% and 43%. Keith emphasizes the importance of how capital compounds over labor and advises on building ownership in real estate and businesses. Finally, he answers your listener's questions about: agricultural real estate inflation, profiting on mortgage loans, transitioning from accumulation to preservation and a fast-growing state that no one talks about. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:00 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, capital compounds, labor doesn't realizing this can change allocation decisions for the rest of your life. Then I discuss giving. Finally, I answer your listener questions about agricultural real estate inflation, profiting on mortgage loans when it's time for you to stop accumulating properties and a fast growing state that no one talks about today on get rich education Speaker 1 0:33 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:18 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:34 Welcome to GRE from Williamsburg, Virginia to Williamsport, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education, and I'm somewhat near Williamsport, Pennsylvania today. For years, I've told you about the widening canyon between the haves and the have nots, and that's something that you might have only visualized in your head or merely considered a theory, but now you can see it. There's a chart that I recently shared with our newsletter subscribers that might just make your spine tingle and look, I don't like saying this, but hard work just does not pay off like it used to. This is emblematic of the K shaped economy. Just visualize the upper branch of the K, a line rising over time, and the lower branch of a letter k, that line falling over time, both plotted on the same chart. So what steadily happened over the last 60 years really is quite astonishing. And look, I don't want the world to be the way that I'm about to tell you it is, but that's just what's occurring. The share of one's income from capital assets is rising, while the share from labor keeps decreasing simultaneously. Now just think about your own personal economy. What share of your income is from your invested capital versus how much of your income is derived from your labor. When you're the youngest, it's all labor. When I got out of college and had my first job, all of my income was from labor. I certainly didn't have any rental property cash flow or stock dividends. But for Americans, here is how it's changed over time, and this K shaped divergence is alarming people in 1965 it was 5050 by 1990 54% of income was from capital and 46% labor. Today it's 57% capital and only 43 labor. Gosh, the divergence is real, and it's only getting wider, and I really had to dig for the sources on this K shaped economy chart. They are the BLS, the Tax Foundation and the International Labor Organization. Increasingly, asset owners are the haves. The upper part of this K shaped economy, that line is drifting up like a helium balloon that you forgot to tie to the chair. It just keeps going up and then the labor share of income, which is shrinking, that is also known as how much of the economic pie goes to people who actually work for a living. That is another way to think of it. So frankly, that's why I say hard work just does not pay off like it used to, because with each wave of inflation, assets, pump, leveraged assets, mega pump and wages lag behind, and we can't allocate our resources in the way that we want the. World to be, but how the world really is. In fact, the disparity is even greater than the chart that I just described to you, because it doesn't even include value accumulation, also known as appreciation. I was only talking about income there, and the reality is that working for a paycheck just pays off less and less and less. No amount of working overtime on a Saturday can make you wealthy, but it might make you miserable. Owning assets pays off more and more. In fact, the effect is even more exaggerated than what I even described, because, as we know, the tax treatment is lighter on your capital gains than it is your income derived through labor. As the economy keeps evolving, those who benefit the most, they do not sell their time for money. They're not trading their time for dollars. In fact, let me distill it down here are, yeah, it's just four words that could change the way you allocate your time and your effort for the rest of your life. Capital compounds, labor doesn't. yeah, there's a lot right there. If you want to keep up or get ahead, you need to be on the capital part of the K, the upper part. And what would that really look like for you in real life? What does that practically mean? It means building ownership into your financial life, owning real estate, owning businesses using prudent leverage, owning things that produce income, and even merely owning more things that appreciate. And here's the great news, though, real estate is still the most accessible, leverageable, tax favored capital friendly asset class ever created. That's whether you're just patching together like 43k for a down payment on your first turnkey single family rental, or making a tax deferred exchange into a 212 door apartment complex. Okay, this is how that can look in real life. The bottom line here is that as the economy gets more and more K shaped, with this divergence between Americans capital share of income increasing and labor share decreasing, that you want to stack real income generating assets. That is the big takeaway. Keith Weinhold 7:44 Well, this is the time of year where a lot of people feel compelled to give donations. And as a GRE listener that's paid five ways, you've got more ability than others to give, I need to caution you about some things. I'm sorry that it is this way, because I do want to promote giving. It's kind, it's virtuous, and it's not a completely selfless act either, because when I give, it makes me feel good too. You're making a difference, and that feels great. Let's talk about the downsides of giving, though, because few people discuss that. We already know about the upsides when I give to an organization, say, 1500 bucks here, $1,000 over there, well, inevitably, you do get on that organization's contact list. And yeah, I suppose that it is easier to retain a customer or donor than it is to find a new one. Sometimes I just make what I expected to be a one time donation, but they will keep contacting you. Now, I was once on the other side of this. I served on a volunteer committee that organizes athletic events, and a friend of mine, John made a $1,000 donation to our organization one year, which was really kind, and he's just a day job working kind of guy when he didn't make the donation. The following year, someone made it a line item in our meeting minutes to say that John's donation was not renewed. Like that's the only thing they brought up. Oh gosh, that really struck me the wrong way, because here's a guy that traded his time for dollars at a job that I happen to know he doesn't like very much, and the committee statement was that the guy didn't renew his donation. Sheesh, now, when it comes to the tax treatment of, say, $1,000 that you make in a donation, there's a lot of misunderstanding about how that works, and this is the type of subject that you're thinking about now, because sometimes people want to get a tax break tallied up before year end, because some people think that after the year ends, well, the IRS pays you back the $1,000 you donated because it's tax deductible. No, that's how a tax credit. Works. But a tax deduction, which is all that you might be eligible for, means that if your annual income is 100k well then a 1k donation lowers your taxable income to 99k so if you're in the 24% tax bracket, then you'd get 240 bucks back. But you know, in many or even most cases, you're not going to get any tax break at all for making a donation, and this is because you did not exceed the standard deduction threshold, which is now almost 16k if you're single and almost 32k married, you get to deduct those amounts from your taxable income no matter what. So the standard deduction, in a way, it's nice, because you don't have to keep receipts and do all that tracking for everything. So I've had that experience myself where, huh, feeling a little generous throughout the year, giving $1,500 here, $1,000 there. Oh, and then realizing that it does nothing for me on taxes, you have to give more to exceed the standard deduction amount and start itemizing them. And mortgage interest does go into that amount. Okay, it does go into the amount to try to get your total above the standard deduction threshold. So go ahead and give freely, but in a lot of cases, keep in mind that it often does nothing for your taxes, because you're taking that standard deduction if you indeed are. There's been another tip flation trend that's annoying, and that is increasingly when I give a donation online, I'm asked to if I want to leave a tip on top of the donation. That is so weird, a tip is for good service. I'm serving you by being generous enough to give a donation. Sheesh, a tip request on top of a donation. But please do give when you do, one thing that you might want to specify is that it is a one time donation, if that is your intent, or they will constantly follow up with you. Keith Weinhold 12:06 Coming up next, I'm going to answer your listener questions. A member of Team GRE, who you haven't heard before, is going to come in to ask me your listener questions, and one of them is going to be among the most important topics that our show has never addressed, and it's about time. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. Keith Weinhold 12:28 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and healthcare. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly again, 1-937-795-8989 Keith Weinhold 13:40 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Kristen Tate 14:14 this is author Kristin Tate. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Keith Weinhold 14:32 Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, they say that it takes a village to get some things done and well, it takes a team to prop up this slack jawed operation one GRE team member, capably behind the scenes for more than a year and a half now, is Brenda Almendariz, welcome in. Brenda, Hi, Keith, thanks. Rather than me asking the listener questions this time you. You get to do it, but before we do that, just tell us a bit about your real estate investing. Brenda 15:07 Sure. So I started maybe learning a little bit about investing and kind of looking into other options to grow my wealth. And I came across the GRE podcast and a few others. So I think about 2018 I did a little bit of just learning and kind of educating myself. And then 2019 I bought my first turnkey property. Turned out well. And then 2020 I bought my second one. And then in 2021 I decided, okay, this is working really well. Maybe I'll do a house hack. I'll do something a little different, and in a year, then maybe I'll do something else. But I've been in my 2021 home now for about almost five years. I'm looking for the next one, hopefully within the next year. But yeah, it's been great. Turnkey. Just met real estate investment company here at my local REIA, and then I learned that I could actually connect with other companies across other places through GRE but yeah, it's been great. Keith Weinhold 16:02 Brenda lives in Phoenix, just about as close to the center of Phoenix as you can possibly be. I sat down with Brenda for lunch the last time that I was in Phoenix, and like a lot of people, almost everybody that works here at GRE they started out as a listener before they ever worked here. And really, it's that same story with Brenda as well. So yeah, Brenda will want to ask us the first of what we have about four listener questions today Brenda 16:31 we do, so I'll go over the first one here. Question is, I would love for you to revisit some of the non traditional example, coffee plantation, CBD manufacturing, teak plantation, Belize resort properties and syndication projects you've discussed on the GRE podcast just to see how they turned out. I'm sure some of them failed to deliver the expected returns, and it's the failures that many of us learn the most from Keith Weinhold 17:02 Yeah, totally. Okay, so not so much a listener question here, but a comment to discuss more of these agricultural real estate investments or ones that are in syndications off of the investment type that you can't do yourself, is what we're talking about here, rather than direct ownership of residential rental property and an appeal to follow up down the road to see how they really turned out. And you know, Brenda, I'll address you because we don't have the listener name with this question. Most people in my position, if an investment has been discussed on the show, and then that investment didn't go as well as was hoped for, you know what? They never tell the audience about it. However, there's the Panama coffee farm investment. We first discussed that here way back in 2015 and we had a GRE field trip where I met a lot of you in person there in Panama. And as I often do when we discuss a particular investment here, I bought and still own Panama coffee farm parcels myself. That investment, it paid cash flow from the crop yields for a few years, and then it stopped. The good yields stopped due to covid disruption, and since then, there have also been erratic weather patterns like drought and precipitation of the wrong levels and at the wrong time of year, and there's been more of a prevalence of pests in disease like coffee leaf, rust and the operator. They have been communicative and forthcoming all the while they're still issuing the annual report that I read, and sometime after that, I think that a lot of investors were assured, because it sort of made national news, international news, that markets for both coffee and cacao have been suppressed, at least from the standpoint of there's not enough crop yield. I mean, that is a problem in a lot of places worldwide. Now I hope that turns around, and it very well may. In fact, we did something here that very few shows do. Back on episode 431, we had the Panama coffee farm CEO come back on the show to describe exactly what I just told you about there. And few shows are willing to do that. Some people just want you to think that every single investment that's discussed goes as well it was hoped for, or even better than expected. But that is not real world. You got to be authentic in real So, okay. Listener, comment, well, taken there. They appreciate that sort of follow up, and they would like more of that. All right, that's great. What's the next question? Brenda. Brenda 19:40 Sure. So the next one comes to us from our audience over on YouTube. So in response to our real estate pays five ways in a slow market, YouTube video matrices wrote, There is no inflation profiting. You would have to be paying off the loan with an income that goes up with housing inflation. That's plausible if you are a wage earner, but if your source of income is rental properties, then there isn't a wage increase that reduces the effective loan amount. You are double dipping in the inflation profiting column by counting appreciation which you earn as a real estate investor and inflation profiting, which you earn only if your wages go up at the rate of housing inflation, and you use those wages to pay off the loan, which you don't Keith Weinhold 20:33 Okay, again, somewhat of a statement here. I suppose there's a question implicit within that for matrices. I'm not sure how you say that name exactly. Wondering about inflation profiting. Are you counting it? Right? I don't know about that. The part about paying off the loan faster if you're a wage earner, I mean, that's plausible, but not if your income is from rental properties. I mean, see that's actually backwards, because your cash flow goes up faster than the rate of inflation due to your biggest payment, your principal and interest staying fixed, so your net rent income goes up even faster than the rate of inflation. So inflation profiting, therefore it's even better than how I've been presenting it and calculating it. Now with that understood matrices, here's one way for real estate...
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583: "Getting Your Money to Work For You" is a Middle Class Trap
12/08/2025
583: "Getting Your Money to Work For You" is a Middle Class Trap
Keith reviews the state of the real estate market, noting that existing home sales are down about 33% from their 2021 peak, while prices remain firm due to low supply and high demand. Affordability challenges are driven by stagnant wages, inflation, and higher mortgage rates, with 70% of mortgage holders still locked in at rates below 5%. He observes that in certain markets, new construction may now offer better investor terms than comparable existing properties, especially where builders buy down rates. The episode highlights a comparison of nearly a century of asset class returns, reporting real estate’s long-term annual appreciation at approximately 4.7%. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, how do other audiences feel about the GRE mantras that we've come to love here, like financially free beats debt free and don't get your money to work for you? Then sometimes it's not what you're attracted to in life, but what you're running away from finally comparing the returns from six major asset classes over the past century all today on get rich education Keith Weinhold 0:29 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:18 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:34 Welcome to GRE from Kennebunkport, Maine to Bridgeport, Connecticut and across 188 nations worldwide. It is the voice of real estate investing since 2014 I'm Keith Weinhold, and I'm grateful to have you here with me, and we're doing something a little different today, as you'll soon listen in to me as I was on the hot seat being interviewed on another prominent real estate show. But first, when you pull back and ask yourself, why you're really an investor in the first place? There are so many reasons. Maybe you just want a few properties in order to supplement your day job income. Maybe you want to have more than a few so that you can completely replace that active income, or perhaps rather than going the route of building up your cash flow, which is valid, but some think that it's the only way to real estate financial freedom. Instead, you could own, say, nine doors or 22 doors, and even if they all had zero cash flow, you can just keep borrowing against that leverage and equity tax free and live off of that whatever you do when it comes to your day job, income, your degree of disdain for your nine to five job that is going to be greater or less than it is for some others. So your motivation for self improvement, it isn't always about what you're running to in life, which could be real estate investing, but it's also what you're running away from, especially if you don't get a deeply rooted sense of meaning from your job. So you could have both a push factor and a pull factor in what motivates you. There's a scene from the 1999 movie Office Space that just does this incredibly unvarnished job of saying out loud how so many of us feel today. What I'm going to share with you, I mean, you know that you have felt this at least once in your life. Office space wasn't supposed to be a mega hit movie, but it kind of was, because it's so relatable. Let's listen in to part of this clip. This is Ron Livingston playing a disgruntled male employee talking to Jennifer Aniston at a restaurant about his job in the movie Office Space. Speaker 1 4:09 I don't like my job, and I don't think I'm gonna go anymore. You're just not gonna go. Yeah, won't you get fired? I don't know, but I really don't like it, and I'm not gonna go. Keith Weinhold 4:24 Then it continues when she asks. So you're just gonna quit? No, not really. I'm just gonna stop going. When did you decide all of that? About an hour ago? Really? Yeah, aren't you going to get another job? I don't think I'd like another job. What are you going to do about money in bills and all that? I've never really liked paying bills. I don't think I'm going to do that either. Keith Weinhold 4:53 That's it. That is the end of that classic dialog from office space that we can. All relate to you did not wake up to be mediocre, but a lot of people's jobs pummel them into a rather prosaic state. You were born rich because you were born with this abundance of choices, this huge palette in menu, but society often stifles that and makes you forget it, and it gets really easy to just fall into your groove and stay there. The main reason we aren't living our dreams is really because we're living our fears. Failure doesn't actually destroy as many dreams as people think fear and doubt. Does fear and doubt destroy more dreams than failure ever does financial runway? That is a phrase for the amount of time that you can maintain your lifestyle without the need for a paycheck. And it's critical for you to lengthen this runway if you hope to retire early, and it will dramatically reduce your stress level. An example is say that you currently earn 150k per year after taxes, and you spend 126k of that, all right. Well, that means you've got a surplus of 24k a year. Well, it's going to take you a little over five years to accumulate that 126k that you need to annually support your lifestyle. That's what happens if you don't invest. And see investing helps you lengthen your financial runway, that amount of time you can maintain your lifestyle without the need for a paycheck. That's what we're talking about here. Last week I brought you the show from Caesar's Palace in the center of the Las Vegas Strip. So therefore, what I've done is I have gone from the ostentatious and flamboyant over here to the familial and simple as this week I'm in Buffalo New York, broadcasting from a somewhat makeshift GRE studio here, the Buffalo Bills had a home game yesterday, so the city and hotels are busier than usual. Next week, I will bring you the show from upstate Pennsylvania, as I'm traveling to see my family. Let's listen in to me on the hot seat. I was recently a guest on Kevin bups long running real estate investing show. You're going to get to see how I present information and GRE principles for the first time to a different audience. And as I do, you're going to hear me provide new material, but you'll also hear me say quite a few things that I have told you before, even then, the concepts might land differently when I'm explaining them to a new audience. The show is based in Florida, so We'll also touch on the real estate pain and opportunity there. After I'm interviewed, I'm going to come back and tell you about something fascinating. I'm going to compare the returns from six major asset classes over the past century, since 1930 anyway, and that's going to include the first time on the show where I'll tell you real estate's annual appreciation rate over the last entire century. Just about what do you think it is? 8% 5% 3% you're gonna have, perhaps the best answer you've ever had. Here we go. Kevin Bupp 8:31 Now, guys, I want to welcome back a guest that we've had on. It's been a number of years now. Keith Weinhold, I went back to look at the last episode we had him on. I think it's been about four years. So, you know, four years ago, the world was in the very different state. It was a very different time. And so, you know, thankfully, we're out of the covid era and on to newer and greater things. So for those that don't know Keith, he's the founder of get rich education. He's the host of the popular get rich education podcast. He's a longtime thought leader in the real estate investing space, and like myself. Keith was also born and raised in Pennsylvania. For those that know don't know, I was born and raised in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Keith, I believe, a couple hours away from where I was. But Keith has very much a unique perspective on wealth, building debt, and really the housing market as a whole. And today, you know, we'll be diving into everything you know, from why the property itself? This is something that Keith kind of coins, why the property itself is less important than you think, to how the housing crash has already happened in a way that most people don't even realize, to the role inflation and debt play in building long term wealth. And so again, it's been a number of years here, so I'm excited to welcome Keith back here. So my friend, Keith, welcome to the show. It's it's a pleasure to have you back here again, my friend. Keith Weinhold 9:43 Oh, Kevin, it's good to be here and be in the auspices of another fellow native Pennsylvanian as well. Kevin Bupp 9:49 That's right, that's right, yeah, no, Pa is rocking and rolling as I think I told you this little, this little tidbit last time everyone, every time I speak with someone from Pennsylvania, they never know this. But I'm going to share this fun fact. Are you already know, Keith. I'm gonna share it with the rest of the listeners here today, Pennsylvania, those that are born and raised there. It's the only state where, if you're from Pennsylvania, you refer to it by its initials, and you assume that everyone else, everywhere else across the country, they know what you're talking about when you say I'm from PA and that's the only state that does that. So I think it's pretty neat. Keith Weinhold 10:19 That's right. No one else does that. No one else says, I'm from TN, if they're from Memphis, right? Kevin Bupp 10:24 They don't, they don't. So with that, my friend. So, you know, it's, again, it's been a number of years since we, since we had you last on here, you know, let's start with just, let's back up a little bit. You know, what have you been up to? I mean, what, what have the last few years look like for you? Where have you been spending your time, energy and efforts? Obviously, it's, you know, we've gone through some quite a bit of turmoil over the last five years, and would love to just get an update as to what's going on your life. Speaker 2 10:48 Well, one of the big words in real estate investing, we all know it, even the person that cuts your hair and cleans your teeth knows it, and that's affordability. You know, really, affordability has been under fire, under pressure. By a lot of measures, we have the worst affordability for home buying since the early 80s, when the Jeffersons was on television. So it's been helping a lot of people deal with that. It's really the effect of three things, general inflation, higher home prices and higher mortgage rates. Really, those three things the crux of the problem. It's not exactly inflation, really. It's the fact that over the long term, wages don't keep up with inflation. And really that's the crux of the affordability problem. So I've been helping people deal with that and put that in perspective, really, Kevin, Kevin Bupp 11:42 what does that mean for, you know, investment, real estate? I mean, are you still still doing deals? Are you seeing deals still get done by your students? I mean, what? What's your world look like? Keith Weinhold 11:52 Yeah. I mean, I think you're asking, you know, how many deals are taking place? One way to measure that on a national basis is existing home sales. You know, existing home sales have been down substantially. And when a lot of people hear that, they think, prices, oh no, we're not talking about prices. We're talking about existing home sales. That means sales volume. That means the amount of overall transactions. So to give an idea of a real estate market, a residential one that's become pretty lethargic and not very vibrant, is that sales volume. It had its recent peak of about 6 million home sales back in 2021 I mean, 2021 was crazy, kind of the crux of the pandemic, you know, Kevin, that's when for an open house. You saw cars wrapped around the block for just one open house. Okay, well, that year 2021 there were 6 million existing home sales. Today, we're on pace to do about 4 million, and we also did only about 4 million last year. So if you put that in perspective and think about what that means, prices have stayed stable, but that's a 33% reduction in transactions. So investors, you know, people like you and I, Kevin, we're not as affected by this as some other industries. But think about the mortgage loan industry. If you're doing 33% fewer transactions, think about the hard decisions companies have to make and lay people off. 33% fewer transactions for title companies. It's probably close to 33% fewer transactions for furniture companies as well. So really it's both affordability that's been a problem, and that's led to this relative lethargy, kind of a slow, not very interesting residential real estate market, at least from the transaction perspective, really, really slow. Kevin Bupp 13:58 But Could, could one not argue, I don't know the data points. Keith, I guess, what did it look like? 2021? Was kind of the peak. I think you'd reference 6 million units a year. Transactionally, what did it look like prior? What, what was, what was a more normal year like? And maybe 2020, wasn't a normal year either, right? Because a lot of folks thought the role was ending for a period of time. You know, 2019 maybe just again, trying to, trying to find maybe a better baseline to use. And then, you know, does, I guess, in my mind, and I don't follow these data points as much as you do, is that maybe 2021, was, you know, somewhat artificial inflation, right? Lots of lots of money pumping into the marketplace. And ultimately, we had to get back to a sense of normalcy at some point in time. And so are we at a at a place of normalcy? Are we still behind the eight ball a little bit? Keith Weinhold 14:44 We're still behind the eight ball a little bit. 5 million is more of a normal long term number. But yeah, I mean, if we've got 4 million now, that's, you know, 25% less still than 5 million, sort of this long term normalcy rate of existing. Home transactions. And if you're a careful listener, you notice I've been using the word existing that doesn't include new build. So you know, when you the listener out there reading headlines, always look at that closely. We talking about existing? Are we talking about new build? You can learn a lot from that when you introduce new build data that introduces an awful lot of noise. For example, even when we look at prices, sometimes we want to exclude new construction. So why is that? Why do we want to focus on existing a lot? Well, because new build can introduce a lot of aberrations to the market. For example, the size of new build properties has dropped substantially the past few years, again, coming back to the central theme of affordability to help make a home more affordable. So we're not looking at same same when the square footage of a property drops a lot. And also, another thing that's been happening as a response to the lack of affordability is you have more builders building further and further out from a central business district where there are lower land costs for that new build property as well to help meet affordability. So the takeaway is, yeah, we want to be careful when we look at numbers. Are we looking at existing? Are we looking at new? Are we looking at overall properties. Kevin Bupp 16:22 If you believe that if rates come down, we really is that the is that the lever that has to be pulled in order for that transactional volume to kick back up and, you know, make homes more affordable for the average home buyer, Keith Weinhold 16:34 yeah, it's certainly going to help. I mean, really lower rates is the most likely significant lever that can help with the affordability crisis. Prices are pretty firm. Home prices are up 2% year over year. It's difficult for home prices to fall. In fact, home prices have only fallen one time substantially since World War Two. A lot of people don't realize that. So home prices are firm. I expect them to stay firm. And then the other lever is if we get a huge surge in wage increases, which I really don't expect anytime soon, unless we have another really big bout of inflation. So to your point, yes, lower mortgage rates like, that's the biggest lever that can help affordability return. And to speak to mortgage rates, Kevin and help put all of this into perspective, including this affordability component, is the fact that today, mortgage rates are low, and that gives a lot of people pause. They're like, What are you talking about? Mortgage rates were 3% even as low as two point some percent, just as recently as 2021 and early 2022 What are you talking about? Like, mortgage rates are 2x to 3x that today we look at a long term perspective when we look at the arc of mortgage rates, instead of in setting up expectations where we think rates could go. And we need to look at a frame of reference. Mortgage rates peaked over 18% in 1981 that's if you had a good credit score and everything on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. That's what we're talking about here. In fact, Freddie Mac, they're the ones that have the best, most reliable stat set for mortgage rates, and that goes back to 1971 the average mortgage rate since 1971 all the way up to today, through all these presidential administrations you know, Nixon and in the Reagan years, and Clinton and the bushes and Obama, everything You know up to today, from 1971 until today, the average 30 year fixed rate mortgage is 7.7% so that's why I talk about how mortgage rates are, you know, moderate to a little low today. That takes a lot of people back. I don't see any impetus. It's going to get us back to, say, 3% mortgage rates. So some real perspective here. Kevin Bupp 19:06 Yeah, yeah, no. And, you know, the interesting thing again, you might have data points on this to see, is a lot of the lack, do you feel that a lot of the lack of transactional volume is also related to those folks that have locked in, you know, 3% you know, mortgages, right? Like they're they, why would they sell and ultimately trade into a, maybe a, you...
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582: 7 Proven Ways to Get a Lower Mortgage Rate with Caeli Ridge
12/01/2025
582: 7 Proven Ways to Get a Lower Mortgage Rate with Caeli Ridge
Keith discusses seven ways to get a lower mortgage rate, emphasizing the historical impact of the 1940s GI Bill on homeownership and wealth creation. Caeli Ridge, founder of Ridge Lending Group, digs into smart tactics like adjustable rate mortgages, DSCR loans, and down payment options, plus insider tips on boosting your creditworthiness, timing your rate lock, and planning ahead so you can maximize your returns. They also explore trends like 50-year mortgages and portable mortgages, and the benefits of FHA and VA loans for first-time buyers. Resources: Want expert guidance on your next real estate investment or mortgage? Reach out to Ridge Lending Group for personalized support and a full range of loan options—whether you're a first-time buyer or seasoned investor. Visit or call 855-74-RIDGE to take your next step! Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, seven ways you can get a lower mortgage interest rate. We'll break them down loan types available to you that you never heard of, and learn how the 1940s GI Bill shaped the mortgage that you get today on get rich education Speaker 1 0:22 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:07 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. You Keith, Keith Weinhold 1:23 welcome to GRE from the Romanian Black Sea to the Egyptian Red Sea and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is the indefatigable get rich education before we discuss the seven ways that you can get a lower mortgage rate and more in the 1940s before my dad was born, the GI Bill gave veterans returning from World War Two access to cheap home loans, and that single policy decision might have done more to shape the modern American Housing landscape than Anything else in the last 100 years. Think about it, millions of young men, almost kids, really had just spent the better part of their early adulthood in Europe or the Pacific. They came home, married their sweethearts, started families, and suddenly America had this booming demand for housing, but demand alone doesn't build homes. You also need money. You need access to credit, and that's where the GI Bill stepped in. It didn't just thank returning service members for their sacrifice. It handed them something way more powerful, the ability to buy a home with little money down a low interest rate and underwriting standards that would frankly look like a fantasy today, that access to credit sparked one of the biggest housing booms in American history. You had these entire suburbs that sprang up overnight, Levittown in New York, Lakewood in California. These were master planned communities, and they really became a blueprint for Post War America. We had the booming 50s, and this had a lot to do with it. Here's the part that most people don't understand. This wasn't just about housing. This was about wealth creation, because for better or worse, home ownership has been the primary wealth building vehicle for the American middle class these past 100 years, when you give millions of people a subsidized path into property ownership, you're not just giving them a roof. You're giving them equity appreciation, leverage, tax benefits. You're giving them the engine, this flywheel that spins up generational wealth in a lot of ways. The GI Bill is the earliest institutional example of what I at least tell you here on the show, real estate pays five ways. Now they didn't call it that in 1947 but that's exactly what it was. Veterans earned appreciation as suburbs grew. They had amortization working for them, they collected tax advantages. Inflation slowly eroded their fixed rate mortgage balances too. And here's the thing, these weren't even speculative investments. They were homes that they lived in. Now, of course, the GI bill wasn't perfect. It expanded opportunity for millions of people, but it excluded a lot of people too. Lenders and local governments often blocked black veterans and other minorities from accessing the same benefits. That's a whole story unto itself, but the takeaway for today is, when you combine demographic momentum with favorable financing, you can remake a nation, and that's why housing policy still matters today, which we'll get. Two shortly, when you change access to credit or just tweak it, you change the trajectory of families and markets for generations, and the GI Bill proved that. So when we talk about interest rates, affordability, supply shortages, or any of the high frequency housing data that we cover here, remember that the stories aren't just about numbers. They really are about people. They're about giving ordinary Americans the chance to build wealth the same way that those World War Two veterans did through ownership, stability and the quiet compound leverage, not compound interest. Compound leverage that real estate delivers over time. Keith Weinhold 5:49 I'm bringing you today's show from, I suppose, a somewhat exotic location. I am inside Caesar's Palace, which is right near the very middle of the famed Las Vegas Strip, that's where I'm at. The hotel staff is always accommodative of the show setup. This might seem a little strange to you, because I'm not a gambler. The reason I'm here is that my brother lives 25 minutes away, and I've been with him during Thanksgiving. Next week, I'll bring you the show from Buffalo, New York, and then two weeks from now, I have something heart warming to tell you about that, and it is a real estate story. I'll be broadcasting the show from upstate Pennsylvania. I'll be there to visit my parents. My brother's also coming in from Nevada to be there. That's where the four of us, mom, dad, my brother and I will sit around the same dining room table in the same kitchen of the same home that my parents have lived in since the 1970s nothing has changed, and all four of us know our spots at the table. And actually, it's not even called the dining room table. It is the supper table, as my parents call it so, from flashy Caesar's Palace today to Buffalo and then to Appalachian simplicity in Pennsylvania, the stability and continuity of my parents living in the same home and four wine holds sitting around the table during the holidays, it is so rare. I imagine less than one or 2% of people can do this. I'm just profoundly grateful and proud of Kurt and Penny Weinhold for being the best, most stable parents I could have asked for. It's almost too much to ask, and if you don't have that in your life. Ah, you can do something about that. You can provide the same decency and stability for your children. Keith Weinhold 7:50 Let's talk about seven proven ways you can get a lower mortgage rate with this week's terrific guest. Though, we'll focus on investment properties. A lot of this applies to primary residences as well. Keith Weinhold 8:07 We are joined by the founder of the lender that's created more financial freedom for real estate investors than any other mortgage originator in the nation, the eponymous Ridge lending group. And though that sounds impressive, my gosh, she didn't even need that introduction for you the listener, because she's one of the most recurrent guests in show history. Welcome back to GRE Caeli Ridge, Caeli Ridge 8:30 I am delighted to be here as always, Keith, thank you for your support and acknowledgement. I love what you do, and I'm hoping that I can bring more value today to your listeners in what it is that we do, educating the masses, right? Keith Weinhold 8:42 You've been doing that here for about 10 years. And yes, we're talking about a woman with a reputation for writing emails in all caps, yet still maintains a great relationship with everybody. I mean, congrats, shaile. I couldn't possibly pull that off myself. Caeli Ridge 8:58 Thank you, Keith. And you know, I'm going to stay by my all caps, man, it's a speed thing. It all boils down to the number of seconds in the day that I can just move quickly through an email. Yeah, I love my all caps. Keith Weinhold 9:09 Apparently recipients are still replying, well, you can get a lower mortgage rate in at least seven ways. You can get an adjustable rate mortgage, do a midweek lock in, negotiate seller credits. Have a high credit score. Do a two one buy now, which is kind of old school, but some home builders are using it boost your DTI or buy now, not later. Those are some of the strategies for lowering your mortgage rate. What are your thoughts with regard to that? Caeli Ridge 9:39 I think all of those are viable. I would just say on the adjust for a mortgage. The pushback I would give there is, is that for residential property, specifically, single family, up to four units, we are not finding that spread between the arm and a 30 year fix. We've been the industry as a whole, secondary specifically been on the inverted yield. Now this gets a little tough. Nickel, and I won't go down that rabbit hole, but 08, 09, the housing and lending crash created an environment within secondary markets where an inverted yield has made a 30 year fixed mortgage more favorable in the rate department. Now that's not always going to be the case. I am a huge fan of the adjustable, but what would work right now is an adjustable with the all in one not to take too much time on that topic, but that would be an adjust rate mortgage that I think would save interest or reduce the rate of which interest is accruing, Keith Weinhold 10:30 the all in one loan, which we discussed extensively back at the beginning of this year here on the show. Long term, though, I have seen adjustable rate mortgages work for a lot of people, because really, the compelling proposition of the arm is that it guarantees that you get a lower rate in the near term, and yet there's only a chance that you're going to have a higher rate in the long term Caeli Ridge 10:53 and further. Let's I mean, let's dissect that a little bit. I am a huge proponent. I love an adjustable rate mortgage when the arm is pricing a half or a full percentage point plus over a fixed especially for non owner occupied and the reason for that is, and this is statistically speaking, feel free to look this up, guys, the average shelf life of a mortgage for an investment property is about five years. Great point, right? And we know that if that's the case, right, we're refinancing to harvest equity. We're refinancing maybe to reduce an interest rate from where the market was before, et cetera, et cetera. So that would be the first thing I would say. And then also remember, you guys the first 10 years of an amortized mortgage, 30 year fixed, amortized mortgage, how much of that payment is going to the principal? Because people will often push back by saying, well, either an interest only, or an adjustable and what happens if it changes or it goes up? Most of your payment is going to the interest anyway, and that reset to harvest equity. Borrowed funds are non taxable. We always say that, right? I think it's fully justified. So I love an arm, I just don't know, in comparison to a 30 year fixed today, like a five year ARM versus a 30 year fixed we are in a place that it makes sense, but normally, to your point, absolutely. Fan Keith Weinhold 12:06 that spread needs to widen for the arm to make more sense. What about doing a mid week rate lock in? Is that a thing? Caeli Ridge 12:13 Yeah. And you know, I don't have any empirical evidence here. Okay, I don't have any data points that actually prove this, except for 25 years in the business and locking loans every day of my life. There's something about a Monday and a Friday. And I have some conspiracy theories. I don't know that. I it's necessary to share them here, but midweek locks tend to be more favorable in both points and interest rate than you'll find on a Friday and a Monday. I think largely it has to do with, you know, the stock exchanges shutting down for the weekend, right? You got a Friday, you got two days in between. You got foreign markets, and all the things that can explode and happen during that amount of time. So I think they hedge a little bit. So on Friday, going into the weekend, I think that there's something about that and why interest rates are a little less favorable. And then Monday, of course, coming off the weekend, similarly, maybe there's some truth to that too. Keith Weinhold 13:02 Now, negotiating seller credits has really been a trend to help with affordability. Tell us about specifically what you're seeing there, what's common. Caeli Ridge 13:11 So we're talking to investors. I can tell you that the loan products you guys are going to have access to are going to cap you, okay, you're going to cap at, per guideline, 2% of the purchase price. Okay, remember that your points that you're paying when you get into locking an interest rate are going to be calculated on the loan size, all right. So the first thing to know is seller paid closing costs, maximum is going to be 2% per underwriting guidelines. That 2% is based on your purchase price. Anything that you're paying points for is going to be on the loan balance, the loan size, so there's going to be a little extra there for you that can contribute or can pay for some other closing costs, right, depending on the numbers. Now, if you're smart enough, or lucky enough, or whatever, the market is viable enough that you can negotiate more than 2% from the seller to pay towards closing costs, you're going to be limited on what you can do on the loan side. But let's say that you go and you've negotiated 4% seller will pay 4% towards your closing costs. Then in that case, you can reduce, you got the two points that you're allowed per guideline. And then you can reduce the purchase price by the difference you don't want to leave that money on the table. Keith Weinhold 14:15 That's how it's done. And then there's just simply having a higher credit score. What's the highest credit score that really helps you get the lowest mortgage rate for both primary residences and non owner occupied properties. Loan product Caeli Ridge 14:29 type dependent. But I would say overall, 760 and above is kind of that threshold. There are products that go 780 maybe even on the rare occasion, 800 and above. If I had to pick a number as the absolute pinnacle, I'm going to go 780 Keith Weinhold 14:41 All right, so having a credit score above those thresholds really doesn't help get you a lower interest rate. It's really just a little flex that you've got an 811, credit score, or whatever it is. Now the two, one buy down. That's something that we used to see long ago. A few home builders are bringing it back. And what that does it allow? Homebuyers to pay a lower interest rate for the first two years with the seller covering the difference, and that allows the seller to get their price. They don't have to lower the price of the home at all. But the two one buy down, and you see that written, two, one that has been employed more recently. Tell us about that. Caeli Ridge 15:18 Well, the builders are struggling in some cases, right? The affordability buzzword is all over the place. So they've had to get creative and find ways in which they can move their inventory. So I think they've done a good job at kind of shaving off some of their margins to satisfy or improve the terms for the consumer. So I like the two. One, if you can get it Keith Weinhold 15:37 now, one can boost their DTI as well their debt to income ratio and Taylor. When we've talked about that before, we've usually talked about reducing your debts in order to improve your DTI. However, a lot of people don't think about the fact that, oh, well, you can increase your income that lowers your DTI to help you qualify. So tell us what is the max DTI that you can have Caeli Ridge 16:00 maximum debt to income ratio, in most cases on a full dock loan is going to be 50% now, depending on the type of income that you earn or that you've demonstrated, how you calculate that can get a little bit tricky. But if you're just a straight w2 wage earner, we don't have, you know, commissions or bonuses or anything that we consider variable income, then you just take your gross income times 50% whatever that number is, all of your liabilities on the credit report, we do not count ordinary living expenses like food and gas and utilities and cell phone bills. It's the minimum payments on the credit report. As long as whatever that add up is fits within that 50% you're good to go. Keith Weinhold 16:37 Now, when it comes to improving our DTI to get a lower mortgage rate, I tend to think it's easier to knock out some debts to improve your DTI. But what about the other side of it? What about increasing your income to improve your DTI, lower your mortgage rate and qualify? Can you talk about some of the strategies for increasing your income with respect to DTI? Caeli Ridge 17:02 Absolutely. And the biggest one, I think that we probably want to focus on most is going to be on a schedule E, right? That's the one that you're going to have more control over. So when we talk about rental income and how we might be able to boost that first, it might be important to share that there are two ways in underwriting that we will calculate or quantify rental income. The first way is called the acquisition year formula. I'll give you that in just a second. It's very easy, but the way I think we focus on here, because acquisition year is going to be what it is, you're going to have very little ability to manipulate or change that once our rental properties fall on our tax return, specifically the Schedule E of a federal tax return, you as the taxpayer or the borrower are going...
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581: I Really Mean It
11/24/2025
581: I Really Mean It
Keith tells how much he paid for his first property and how he traded up for more and larger properties. He highlights the benefits of owning real estate, noting that 63% of the median American's net worth is in home equity and retirement accounts, while the top 1% has 45% in private business and real estate. He also shares his personal journey and emphasizes using other people's money to grow assets. Discover why outdated rent control policies harm housing supply and affordability. Learn innovative ways to turn your property’s unused spaces into effortless cash flow with today’s best peer-to-peer platforms. Sign up at to grow your means, and join a thriving community passionate about breaking free from financial limits! Resources: These platforms let property owners creatively monetize underutilized spaces. – Rent out your garage, basement, driveway, or unused space. – Rent out your swimming pool by the hour. – Rent out your attic, closet, or other home storage spaces. – Rent out your backyard as a private dog park. – Rent out extra storage space such as garages or sheds. – Rent out your space (home, backyard, loft, warehouse, etc.) for events, meetings, or photoshoots. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about how I personally built and grew wealth myself with real numbers and real properties, what a rent freeze actually means to you, and how you could be losing income by not creatively generating more rent from properties that you already own. I'll talk about exactly how today on Get Rich Education. Speaker 1 0:27 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:12 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:29 Welcome to GRE from Stonehenge, England to Stone Mountain, Georgia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. I visited Stonehenge and made, by the way, today I'm back for another incomprehensibly slack jawed performance here, still a shaved mammal too. Status hasn't changed. And remain profligate and unrepentant about the whole thing. You probably know it by now that if you're listening here and you want to learn and do things the same way that everyone else does things, then you are squarely in the wrong place. I really mean it more on that later. But you know, Wall Street doesn't scorn real estate because it's risky. They dislike it because it doesn't scale the way that they need it to private real estate can get messy, operational, illiquid. Every real estate deal is different. Every market has its own physics. You can't package it into a fund with a push button deploy strategy. And that's precisely the point. The modern financial system rewards frictionless products that trade constantly and generate fees instead building real, durable wealth has never been frictionless. Here's what the wealth distribution actually shows for the median American. 63% of net worth is in home equity and retirement accounts. For the top 10% that tier, 25% is in real estate and private business ownership. But for the top 1% that highest tier, 45% combined is in private business equity and real estate. So as you approach the top 1% it's more skewed toward owning a business and directly owning real estate. Wall Street, they only offer derivative exposure to real estate through mega funds and REITs. But exposure isn't ownership. Your best risk adjusted returns live in the deals that are too small and too messy for institutions to touch, and that's where your yield lives. The control, the opportunity, the world's enduring fortunes weren't built just by buying exposure. They were built by owning things, land companies, assets that require some sweat to get them going. The next decade favors owners over allocators, the stuff that pays you perpetual dividends. So the irony is that the very things Wall Street avoids the messy hands on part of real estate. Oh, well, that's what makes it such a powerful wealth builder. And see, even, as we somewhat found out last week when we talked about AI property management here on the show, you can't fully automate relationships or construction or management, but that friction is exactly where the margin lives. What makes real estate frustrating for institutions is exactly what makes it valuable for operators and long term owners like you and I. It's the nuance, the inefficiency and the need to actually. Know something about a market, rather than just model it. Wealth that lasts comes from assets that you can influence, not just monitor, and that is the difference between you having mere exposure and true ownership. You can't outsource legacy, the messy path of ownership is often where meaning in real freedom is found. You've got to tend to the garden somewhat, whether your properties are professionally managed or self managed, but some people get overwhelmed if they're asked for a log in and a password, even we all know that feeling somewhat well, then they stay metaphorically logged out of success. Think about how easy remotely managing your real estate portfolio is today. Sheesh 200 years ago. There was no anesthesia. We had smallpox, brutal physical labor, no electricity today. What if a website tells you that you've got to reset your password? Oh my gosh, is the deal often just overwhelming? Can you imagine the effort now, two weeks ago, I mentioned to you that I went back and visited the first piece of real estate that I ever owned, that seminal blue fourplex. But did I ever tell you how I grew that seed into a massive real estate portfolio, and how you can do it by following GRE principles? Let me take you through the early steps here so you can see how you can get something similar going. Of course, your path will look different, but this is going to spawn a lot of ideas for you. I think you already know about my 10k to 11k down payment into that first ever fourplex as the FHA three and a half percent down. Owner occupied, but I didn't buy another piece of real estate for over three years, because real estate just was not that driving thing in my life yet. So I lived in one of those really modest four Plex units longer than I had to three plus years after that, I moved out to a pretty modest, still single family home five miles away, that I had just bought. And since I vacated one of the four Plex units in order to do that. Now, I had four rent incomes instead of three. But here is really the pivot point with what happened next. Now, what would most people do? They might hold on to that four Plex, keep self managing it, and when they could, perhaps aggressively, make principal payments, getting the building paid off before its organic 30 year amortization period. And then what else would they do once it was paid off? Say that would take them 12 years, which would entail a lot of sacrifice, like working overtime at their job and skipping vacations. Oh, they think something like, Oh, now the cash flow is really going to pour in with his paid off fourplex? Yeah, it sure would increase a lot, but after 12 years of toil and sacrifice cashflow off of one fourplex still wouldn't even let you quit your job. Staying small doesn't work, plus you live below your means for a really long time that is sweat and time that you're never going to relinquish. You started working for money. Rather than letting other people's money take over and work for you, it is right there waiting to do that for you. So instead of that path, what I did is when equity ran up in that first fourplex building. Its value increased from 295, to 425, in three and a third years, I did exactly the opposite. I borrowed the maximum out of that first fourplex building, 90% CLTV, and used those tax free funds. Yeah, tax free funds, when you do that to both spend money, well on vacations and make a 10% down payment on a second fourplex building that costs 530k now I'm still living in the single family home while I've got the two fourplex buildings, both with 90% loans on them, still cashflowing A little so eight rent incomes, more debt than I ever had, 10 to one leverage on two fourplexes, and this was all less than five years from the time that I bought the first fourplex. And yes, it probably took some password resets in there. Then next I learned that investing in only one Metro, which is what I had done to that point, that's actually pretty risky, because all eight of my rent incomes, plus my own primary residence, were exposed to the whims fortunes and misfortunes of only one economy. This was in 2012 now, so I started buying turnkey single family. Rentals in other economies that make sense. Investor advantage places is what you've got to look for, Florida, Texas, Ohio, Alabama, Tennessee. My first turnkey was bought in the Dallas Fort Worth metro. I know I've told you that before, all right, but how was I buying more even though I was still working a day job in a cubicle for the D, o, t. Well, it wasn't from my job, because that job is working for money. What it was is borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow. By then, enough equity had accumulated in the first two fourplexes that I traded, one for an eight Plex and the other for an 11 Plex. Now we're getting up to $3,500 of monthly cashflow at this point, which is probably 5k plus per month in inflation adjusted terms. And the 8plex cost 760k and the 11 Plex cost 850k back then, and I still remember that that was a big day for me back then, those buildings closed on either the same day or on consecutive days. I forget. Well, that was 1.6 million in purchases. Maybe that's two to two and a half million in today's dollars. And see that is sure more than what one paid off fourplex would have given me on that old slow track, yet I had all of this faster than waiting 12 years to aggressively pay off one fourplex. And you know, some could say back at that time, they would look at that situation from the outside and say, Keith, where did you get the money to make 20% down payments on that 1.6 million worth of real estate, that is 320k cash? Did you save up all the money? No, I didn't. I didn't have the ability to save that much money at my job. Did you use your existing properties like ATMs, raiding one property to buy another. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. That is the use of other people's money that is wiser than spending my time away from loved ones by selling my time for dollars that I'm never going to get back. And by the way, I have always been the sole owner of properties. No partners here. Now, at this point, I've got dozens of running units spread across multiple states, all professionally managed. And by the way, eight doors is the most that I've ever self managed, because I got professional management involved after that. Oh, there are a ton of lessons in there about what I just told you, many of them, which I've sprinkled through more than 500 episodes now, but now that I told you where I came from, do you know the lesson that I want to leave you with here on this one, for the most part, it's that I'm not even using my own money to do this now, I did add some of my own money for down payments. Sure, by far the minority portion, primarily and centrally. I keep leveraging the bank's money, and they make the down payment for me on the next property. Borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow. Yes, the pace of you doing this is going to fluctuate over time, but that is the playbook that I just gave you right there. Now I've done it in cycles that feel slower because appreciation is lower, but interest rates tend to be lower during those times. And I keep doing it in cycles that move faster because appreciation is higher and interest rates tend to be higher during those times. I've done it when lending was loose, like pre Dodd Frank, and I've done it when lending was tight and inflationary. Times supercharged this whole thing. Sooner than later, you would rather get $5 million worth of real estate out there under your belt, all floating up with inflation and appreciation, not just $1 million worth, $1 million worth, that's more like sticking with one fourplex and trying to pay it off. Anything worth doing, anything in your life is worth doing. Well, look, other people's money is still available to me and to you. So using my own money back when I was an employee, I mean, that's exactly when I would have had to trade more of my finite time for dollars and see, that's what the masses do, and that's precisely what keeps them as the mediocre masses. I really mean it. Now, I wanted to make things real for you with that soliloquy. Keith Weinhold 14:47 Later today, I'll discuss the GRE principles. Did that formative story spawn? A few weeks ago, it made substantial news inside and outside the real estate world that Zohran Mamdani was elected to be the next New York City Mayor. His first day on the job will be the first of the coming year. And actually, it's easy for you to remember how New York City mayoral terms work, because it is the same as the President of the United States. Each term lasts four years, and they can serve up to two consecutive terms eight years. Let's you and I listen into the audio from this short video clip together. This Mamdani campaign spot ran back before election day, but it tells you what he stands for and where he's coming from with regard to rent. In a slightly corny way, the ad shows various tenants popping their heads out of apartment windows and such, saying like, Hey, wait, what? You're going to freeze my rent? Speaker 2 15:50 I'm Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani, and I'm running for mayor to freeze the rent for every rent stabilized tenant. Unknown Speaker 15:57 Wait, you're gonna freeze my rent? Speaker 3 15:59 Yes, did I hear rent freeze? Speaker 4 16:02 Yes, this guy's gonna freeze the rent. No. Pike none. This guy's gonna freeze the Unknown Speaker 16:09 rent. It's true. Dani-Lynn Robison 16:12 As your next mayor, I will freeze your rent paid for by Zoran for NYC. Speaker 5 16:17 The banner at the end of the ad reads, Zoran for an affordable New York City. Oh, yeah, slogans like that are so catchy for anything. All right, he says he's going to freeze the rent for every rent stabilized tenant. And rent control and rent stabilization, they mean very similar things, ceilings on the rent. I'm soon going to tell you what I think about that, and I've got more on Mamdani shortly, but it's not going to be political This is not that kind of show. This is an investing show. I think that even our foreign listeners know how big and influential New York City is. It's not the political capital, but it is the capital of so many things in the United States, it's America's largest city by far, eight and a half million just in the city proper, 20 million in the metro. And New York's growing in sheer number of people. The Metro gained more population than any other city, almost a quarter million people added just last year, even if you doubled the population of the second largest city, LA, New York City would still be larger. All right. Well, how did we get here? A quick story of New York City rent control is that in 1918 New York City passed its first flavor of rent control, and that was the first US city to do so that didn't solve the problem. So in 1943 Congress passed the emergency price control act, and its name implied a temporary patch during World War Two. But even after it expired, and even after the war ended, New York State chose to make it basically permanent in 1950 that didn't solve the problem. So in 1962 New York state passed a law allowing cities to enact expanded rent control if they declared a, quote, housing emergency. Well, New York City did, and that housing emergency has essentially continued unresolved. Still, what they consider an emergency condition persists today, yeah, all these decades later. I mean, really a what, 60 to 70 year long emergency condition that didn't solve the problem. So in 1969 new york city passed what they called rent stabilization. It's really just a new flavor of rent control, and this greatly expanded the number of properties that were subject to these rent regulations. And about half of New York City's apartments are subject to that law that didn't solve the problem. So more expansion and more tweaks of regulating the rent were made in the decades that followed. You had notable ones in 1997 2003 2011 in 2015 but none of them solved the problem. So in 2019 New York expanded rent stabilization to include what they call vacancy control. Now what that means is rent caps are now applied to new renters, not just those existing tenants renewing a lease, and it also granted more tenant protections that didn't solve the problem. So in 2024 New York State passed what they call good cause eviction. That is a third expansion of rent regulation in these tenant protections. This time, they just gave it a slick name, kind of apropos of Madison Avenue's famed market. Marketing prowess. I suppose that didn't solve the problem. And by the way, rent caps came in below not only the rate of inflation, but also below household income growth almost every year over the last decade, and in some years, no increase was allowed at all. That is a rent freeze. But that didn't work either. And meanwhile, New York's public housing agency has 80 billion in deferred maintenance needs, and it's running a $200 million plus operating deficit. So government run housing that hasn't worked either. All right? Well, that brings us to 2025 where New York City is electing a mayor who campaign on freezing the rents and expanding public housing. So New York City now has, for over a century, chosen to expand and rebrand these ideas that just haven't worked, and yet they keep coming back for more and yeah, what exactly is the word for doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on ideas that have proven not to work? Is that word...
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580: AI Landlords: Are Robots Managing Rentals Better Than Humans?
11/17/2025
580: AI Landlords: Are Robots Managing Rentals Better Than Humans?
Keith discusses the evolving role of AI in real estate, highlighting its impact on property management and tenant interactions. He contrasts traditional AI, which excels in IQ tasks but lacks emotional intelligence (EQ), with agentic AI, which can perform autonomous actions. Dana Dunford, CEO of Hemlane, explains how their platform uses AI to streamline repair requests, leasing, and tenant communication. She emphasizes the importance of human oversight for tasks requiring EQ. Looking ahead, Dana predicts increased standardization and remote-first investing, with technology playing a crucial role in enhancing real estate management efficiency. Resources: Explore Hemlane's property management platform and request a demo at Mention the GRE podcast when signing up with Hemlane to receive a 20% discount on the first year. Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, what will real estate look like in five years as AI keeps making inroads into our lives, learn how people have begun using it to manage their rental properties and doing it more cost effectively than humans can. It's a forward looking episode today on get rich education. Speaker 1 0:26 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:11 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:27 Welcome to GRE from Long Island's Hamptons to Hampton Roads, Virginia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education way back in the year 2010 when someone said AI, that could only mean one thing they were talking about, Alan Iverson today, it means artificial intelligence, because chatgpt debuted three years ago this month, and gosh, that changed a lot. It changed how you search for answers to everyday questions. We'll get into applying AI to real estate and property management shortly. But more broadly, look, here's what's interesting, the very premise of a chat bot, like just hearing that word, it sounds really cold and impersonal, yet think about it, Google was way less personal. When you Google something a decade ago, say list the three best paints for drywall, you'd get a list of links, and then you had to dig in and synthesize things and often interpolate to find your answer, or maybe you wouldn't even get the right answer. Instead, today, a chatbot on chatgpt or Gemini gives you the answer in nice, friendly sentences. Maybe they'll list some acrylic and latex paint varieties, and then after the answer, they come back and ask you a good follow up question. If you'd like to dig in for a deeper answer, they'll bring up something that you hadn't considered before, perhaps like it'll turn around and ask you if you want them to refine their answer to just the best latexes and acrylics specifically for rentals. And then it will ask, Would you like me to do that for you? And when you see that, you quickly feel like it's more friendly than that old list of links from a Google search. Yeah, that's a friendly Chatbot. And you can start to see what I mean here. It's not so cold and impersonal. Understand that these platforms ask you a friendly follow up question, because they want to keep you on that platform, just like anywhere else, does you already hear less about hallucinations than you used to when it would just cough up these weird errors? I feel like it's giving better answers than it did just a year or two ago. In my experience, one place where you need to be careful is that these platforms are being so nice to you at times they seem a little too agreeable. One way to break that is to tell the AI challenge my thinking, just those three words can give you a more complete answer. Challenge my thinking, as we already know, one danger about AI is everyone is quickly becoming really reliant on it, and this could be especially harmful to kids that haven't developed independent skills yet. Now I heard from a young teacher who quit her job. A lot of kids don't know how to read today. Why would they when they can just hit a button and it reads it out loud for them, between third and fourth grade, that's when children should transition from learning to read over to reading to learn. Kids have aI right in their hand now, not every kid, but increasingly, they aren't writing a full essay by hand with their own thoughts that they conjured up. Of course, chatgpt does that for them. Now it's probably good to teach chatgpt to kids in older grades, that is, if they don't already know it better than the teachers do, but you've increasingly got teens and young adults that say don't know how to write a cover letter for a resume because it's done for them. Now, much of what I've been talking about so far is called generative AI, and all that means is that it creates new content in response to your prompt. Today, we'll also talk about agentic AI in real estate that is spelled like agent and with IC at the end. How agentic AI is different from Oh, the chat GPT or Gemini prompts that I was talking about is that it acts on its own to perform a series of actions to reach a goal. So agentic AI gets kind of autonomous. Keith Weinhold 6:06 Before we bring in a great guest to talk more about AI and property management. If you're looking for another episode on how to use AI more broadly in your life and broadly in real estate, check out episode 543 of the get rich education podcast that was a great episode from back in March again, that was episode 543 titled How to use AI for real estate. Keith Weinhold 6:34 Now let's pull back and humanize things a little before we talk about bots. I just caught myself doing something kind of funny. Now, the other day, I used the hand ergometer at the gym. If you don't know what that is, while you're oftentimes standing up, you basically use your hands to crank this device's pedals in much the same way that bicycle pedals move. It exercises your biceps, triceps, forearm muscles. I have never seen anyone use this device at the gym before, not one person, but I wanted to try them, right? It seems like I often want to try something different from everyone else, and it looks just slightly odd to use this hand ergometer machine. Well, that's not the funny part. The next day, I was throwing a football around with a friend, and I couldn't figure out why throwing a spiral was so difficult for me and why my throwing accuracy was dreadful. Later, when I got home, my forearm started feeling sore. Oh, and I realized it was from using that hand ergometer. You know, this is such a typical guy thing to do, I made sure to DM that friend immediately to tell him that my football throws were lousy only because I had used a hand ergometer at the gym the day before. And he basically replied, yeah, your throws were really bad. It's funny that I felt so compelled to DM him like, hey, I really don't want ed thinking that I can't throw a football like that is so important or something. I could have done anything else with that two minutes of my life, but I cannot go about the rest of my day if Ed thinks I've got a bad football spiral like so important, like, my flight to Paris leaves in 30 minutes, but I'll put that whole trip in doubt, because I can't forget to tell ed I can usually throw a spiral on a football better than what he's thinking. Because, admit it, everybody has an ego. Some are just bigger than others. Well, I am bursting at the seams with a lot of broad real estate investing techniques and developments for you, but I'm putting that on hold until after today's show. Keith Weinhold 8:45 We're talking with the CEO and co founder of property management platform, hemlane. It's spelled H, E, M, L, A, N, E, hemlane. I'll ask her where real estate will be within five years. She's a really intelligent woman and fully aware that your tenants don't want a bot to handle all of their maintenance requests. It's a lot like how you don't want to say representative to an automated phone system. It's hard to be nice when you're trying to clearly articulate it for the third time representative. Let's meet this week's guest. Keith Weinhold 9:33 This week's guest is the CEO and co founder of hemlane. They're a property management platform with over 28,000 rentals and a billion dollars in payments process, just like we have been since day one here at GRE She is a strong advocate of purchasing properties anywhere. So that's often going to be outside your home state, because if best investments typically aren't right in your backyard, and why would you limit yourself? She supports real estate investors in setting up the most intelligent process to manage rentals from a distance, in case you want to self manage and do that. She's been named one of the top 20 women leaders and influencers in real estate tech. She has a distinguished resume previously working at Apple, and she received her MBA from Harvard Business School. She's an interesting person too. In her free time, she's an avid equestrian, paraglider and skier, so like me, she sort of has this substantial life outside of real estate too. Come on. You need to do that for your sanity. Well, we've been talking for almost a year now, but this is your first time on the show. Hey, welcome. It is the GRE debut of Dana Dunford. Dana Dunford 10:44 Thanks so much Keith for having me. I'm so excited to be on your show and have been following it for a long time. So huge fan. Keith Weinhold 10:52 Appreciate that Dunford is spelled D, u n, f, O, R, D, for listeners in the audio only. And this is a rather forward looking episode streamlining how to use AI in real estate and as a property management solution, putting that in your hands so that you could do that yourself. And before we're done, Dana is going to tell us what real estate investing will look like in five years, and if it's a good time to invest now. But first, Dana, I know you're an expert in leading having autonomous agents handle the tenant relations, things like communication and repair orders to a unit and rent collection. But I think a lot of people aren't really sure what an autonomous agent is. They're like, Hmm, is that somewhere between an autonomous car and a Roomba or something? So what is an autonomous agent? Dana Dunford 11:42 Yeah, so there's two different types of AI, and where we are right now is with traditional AI. There's also agentic AI, where essentially AI will just take over, be proactive, think about things in advance, know exactly how to solve and make decisions. But Keith, to your point, very many out there here, AI, it's very much of a buzzword, and so I love some sort of parallels, just like you had mentioned with like the robot vacuum. I think a really good parallel would be self driving cars, because that's something that's applicable. We can all relate to. You know, you have Tesla, I have one, and it can drive me to and from work at any time, fully on that autonomous but there will be occasionally times in San Francisco where it will require me to take over the wheel because it's too foggy. There's something that goes on that's too complex of a situation. That is where I would say AI is today that traditional, where it's like it can follow exactly a process, but if the process messes up, like there's something in its way, it can't make a decision. It beeps at you and says, take over, whereas if you look at something like Waymo on the self driving car side, that is fully autonomous. There's no one there. There's no one making decisions. But it's very limited on where it can go, what it can do. Now the technology is better, and that's for another conversation, but it's just slower to go to market. And so with traditional AI, and what we're seeing now, it's fast to market. Everyone can use it, but you can't rely on it 100% you can't say it takes the wheel 100% of the time. And I don't have to think about it. And so that is where we are. I think a lot of experts in the space will say 2030, is when we will see this agentic AI. Will see it completely take over, but we're just not there today. Keith Weinhold 13:47 All right, we're talking about the transition from traditional AI, which is in place today, to agentic AI, perhaps the Advent or popularity of that in five years, when I think about autonomous agent a lot of times, I like to look at etymology. Just what does that specifically mean? So we're talking about for another AI or a bot, if you will, to have autonomy over decision making. And when we think about autonomous agency with property management, how can we think of that application? Dana Dunford 14:20 Yeah, I think that you need to break it down into what AI does very well right now, and what you could have aI fully take over, and where you might have some problems. And let me back up to if everyone remembers Watson, who beat Jeopardy, this was a while ago. The reason was, was actually because AI is very good at IQ. It can look up a ton of facts, or it can solve a really complex math problem. So anything on like the IQ side, AI is great to solve, but it's EQ that AI. Lacks, yeah, and EQ is me picking up the phone and saying, you know, Keith, I'm so sorry I messed up on, you know, whatever it was for you. If you're my boss, I'm so sorry here. So I'm going to make it right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so that's where AI is not as good. And so when I think about any kind of system with real estate, you know, putting together your pro forma and looking at the cash flow and all of that, like AI can actually do it well, if you set up these are all the prompts that I would need, or take everything from insurance to interest rates and come up with the pro forma. But where AI will fail is a lot of times on the tenant communication side. And the reason for that is, let's just say, Keith, you have a apartment complex and there is the heat out. Well, if someone has a screaming baby in the background when you pick up the phone, you are going to answer that question, or you're going to talk to that tenant a lot differently if you're human versus if you're AI, you're going to say, oh my gosh, you have a four month old baby. You know, I also have kids. I know exactly what you're going through. And just so you know that HVAC technician is coming out right away, I will be here for you. I'm going to call you in five minutes. And so I always say, especially in real estate, because real estate is a people business, you really need to what, what you're trying to automate, or what you're trying to use, AI into four quadrants, and one axis, the horizontal axis, is IQ. Anything along that access it does well, but the vertical axis is EQ. And so the higher up you go on EQ, where you need relationships, the less likely it is, or my recommendation, would be, put a human in there. And so when we think about AI, it's like, if you're calling someone to confirm an appointment and remind them that, like an electrician is going to be there in an hour, you don't really need a human to do that. That's something that AI can do, and someone's going to have a delightful experience, right? But if it's something that requires that, EQ, that's where you're still going to have to have humans there. Keith Weinhold 17:11 One thing that I often think about is, some years ago, popular email providers like Gmail, when someone would send you an email message asking you a question, Gmail basically started reading that email for you and giving you three little bubbles to click on the bottom, basically where you can click a yes answer, no answer or a follow up for more information, does that help give some relativity to what We're talking about here in property management and those tenant relations. Dana Dunford 17:43 Yeah. I mean, I think that the Gmail with like, yes, no or No, thank you, or you get it also on LinkedIn that almost has zero EQ, because it's really just answering a question. It's not saying, Keith, I hope you had a wonderful weekend. You know, on your run, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not doing any of that. And so I think that is very much of a case of like, it's responding exactly to the email. I do think AI is getting better, where it's having that human touch involved in it when it responds to things. So now in Gmail, where you can have it draft you a response, but at the same time, it's not quite there unless it has enough context. And what I mean by context, and Gmail is such a good example, let's just say Keith today, if you look at Gmail and it's responding to an email, it is literally only responding based on the context it has in that email, right? But let's just say Keith, that you could increase context. So I gave you two axes, like EQ and IQ, high and low on both. Imagine if I could add a third axis on there, so it's almost like 3d and it's context. Now imagine that email you just mentioned came in, and it also could look at my messages, Keith with you on, let's just say Facebook, it also could look at the last shows that you had out there. It also just looked online at things, and maybe it could look at other, you know, information that you might have posted on LinkedIn. And maybe you posted on LinkedIn about your run this weekend. Now I can respond with a lot more context. Hey, Keith, saw on LinkedIn. You had this that is actually adding EQ to it, where it's making it much more personalized. And I think that is where the future of technology is going, and that's why data is such a big play here, because the more context you have, the better you are. And you know, we see that personally as a tech company, we wanted to control more of the data. We don't want to have a ton of APIs with other companies running maybe self guided tours for us, or running the maintenance coordination, because we need that all in our system. Because if we don't have access to the lease agreement to know specifically, do they have an occupant under one years old in the place it makes it. Lot more difficult for us to...
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579: Should Billionaires Exist? Why Rates Keep Falling, Rare Opportunity in Texas
11/10/2025
579: Should Billionaires Exist? Why Rates Keep Falling, Rare Opportunity in Texas
Register to attend the live virtual event "How to Scale Your Portfolio, with Tenanted Cash Flowing, New Construction Properties" on Thursday, November 13th at 8pm Eastern. Keith discusses Billie Eilish's views on billionaires and contrasts her stance with Grant Cardone's, emphasizing the value billionaires bring. Hear about the Fed's decision to end Quantitative Tightening (QT), predicting lower interest rates. GRE Investment Coach, Naresh Vissa, joins the conversation to highlight the benefits of new build properties, such as lower maintenance and higher tenant quality, and mentions a 10% cashback incentive from builders. Resources: Register for the event at Episode Page: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— or text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:00 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, should billionaires even exist? Why do so many people think that interest rates of all types are headed even lower than as a real estate investor, how to identify and capitalize on an opportunity in this era? It's something that I've never seen before. Today on get rich education Speaker 1 0:27 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:13 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:29 Welcome to GRE from flatiron, Manhattan to Flatbush, Brooklyn, across New York City and 188 world nations. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it's the longest federal government shutdown in US history. This whole thing has now lasted longer than most gym memberships. I guess the GDP stands for government doesn't produce, hmm. Before we get into our core investing and real estate content today, Billie Eilish, the singer, recently made some public remarks on whether or not billionaires should even exist. Yeah. Now if you're not familiar with her, Billie Eilish is known for her kind of unique style, sort of these baggy clothes, neon hair, avant garde fashion, and she has a reputation for being outspoken about a lot of things like mental health and body image and environmental issues. Now, in general, I respect people for speaking their mind, whether I agree or not, because a lot of people are just afraid to do that. Let's listen in to this short clip on what she said. You might have heard this because it was pretty widely broadcasted. Eilish spoke after receiving recognition at the Wall Street Journal innovator awards. This is courtesy of the AP. And then I'll come back to comment. Speaker 2 2:58 We're in a time right now where the world is really, bad and really dark, and people need empathy and help more than kind of ever, especially in our country. And I'd say if you have money, it would be great to use it for good things and maybe give it to some people that need it and love you all, but there's a few people in here that have a lot more money than me, and if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? No hate, but yeah, give your money away. Shorties. Love you guys. Thank you so much. Speaker 3 3:40 First of all, without explicitly saying it, she's basically referencing how inflation widened the canyon between the haves and the have nots and GRE listeners that have acted have been on the right side of that canyon. I actually want to give Billie Eilish some credit here. Giving is virtuous. That is a good thing. In fact, next month, I plan to discuss the pros and cons of giving here on the show as we approach Christmas. Billie Eilish, she's certainly not a hypocrite either, because she's given away more than $10 million of her estimated $50 million dollar net worth. She's into feeding people and climate initiatives that right there is giving away more than 20% of your net worth, and that is really kind. Now, you heard her say there's a few people in here that have a lot more money than me, and she's right. Mark Zuckerberg was in that room. His net worth of over 200 billion means that his net worth is more than 4000 times greater than Billy eilish's. It sounds loosely like she's. shaming him for not giving away more of his wealth. And I don't know just offhand how much Zuck gives away, but this is where my credit to Billy Eilish stops. I think that it's okay for a person to be a billionaire. I wouldn't question that. I mean, a lot of times it meant that that person was willing to take risks that others would not dare try. A billionaire probably means you're a person of great value, and that you've hired hundreds or 1000s of other people, creating jobs for them. A billionaire has almost certainly created a product that society values. Jeff Bezos pioneered one day delivery. Zuckerberg connects people through his meta platforms. And now I'm not going to say that either one of those billionaires are perfect people. They are flawed, just like you and I. Billionaires probably pay more tax than the average person as well. That supports the infrastructure that you and I and everybody use, like building bridges or creating a fiber optic network. I would expect that a billionaire would be a giver as well. And see, if you're a billionaire, you have more ability to give than the average person does, you can make a greater impact. And see, this is where things really break down and not make sense. So if Billie Eilish is net worth is 50 million, Oh, apparently that's just okay. That's fine with her. But once it gets to 20 times greater than that, which is 1 billion, then it's not okay. So that means the line is drawn somewhere in there. That makes zero sense to me. The ceiling on what you're supposed to have in net worth is between 50 million and 1 billion. Like, I really do not get the logic on that one. And you know, a guest that we've had on the show here, Grant Cardone, whether you like him or not, he has had some on point remarks about these Billy Eilish comments himself to the question that she posited, which is, if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? Cardone's answer is, if you're a pop star, why are you a pop star? Billy said, give your money away. Cardone's response to her is, give your music away. That's some food for thought there. That's my take on the Billy Eilish remarks on whether or not billionaires should exist. And if you want to hear Grant Cardone and I's conversation here on GRE, that was episode 264 the title of it is Keith Weinhold and Grant Cardone 10x your wealth number 264, a lot of listeners like that episode saying something like it was a dream to hear grant and I together for the first time. Like that, their favorite sales trainer on their favorite real estate show. You can listen by either scrolling way back to get rich education episode 264 in your podcatcher, or you can listen directly by going to get rich education.com/ 264, Keith Weinhold 8:11 now the Fed has said that they are going to slow or end Qt, next month. All right, when Jerome Powell says something like this, what does that really mean to you as an investor? What can you expect ending QT? Well, you probably already know that QE quantitative easing that has the effect of creating dollars. Qt is the opposite. It has the effect of destroying dollars. So if they're ending Qt, this helps keep more dollars around in the future. So ending Qt then, like we expect soon, that really parallels a lower interest rate environment, because see lower rates already make dollars flow more freely. You probably remember the analogy that I introduced to you on the show earlier this year about how lower rates are like lowering the height of a dam wall. It makes it easier for water to flow, so then lowering rates makes it easier for money to flow, and that's because low savings account rates make people get money out of those vehicles. Okay, that's that low dam wall and low borrowing rates make that money flow as well. People will unlock dollars if rates are low, late last year, the Fed dropped rates a full 1% then they didn't make any moves for a while, until late this year, they've now dropped rates another half a percent. That's the environment that we're in. So then more QE and less QT. That further eases the flow of dollars, and it correlates with even lower rates that are coming in the future. Now it doesn't mean that they will. I'm not saying that they certainly will. There is just that tendency, that correlation. So we had pandemic era QE there about five years ago, that ended as we moved to Qt in 2022 and now what we're doing is unwinding Qt, moving back toward more flow, and it surely gets more technical than that. Ending Qt allows the Fed to expand its balance sheet again. Treasuries and mortgage backed securities, once matured, can now be replaced, and that injects liquidity into the system once again, and that is where we're going. Bank reserves are reaching ample levels again, and there is no need to put liquidity stress on money markets. A lot of these moves are here. What they're here for is to help ease the concerning labor market. It's been almost exactly three years now since chatgpt launched, and a while back, I mentioned how companies were newly interested in hiring the shiny new job that didn't exist before the AI prompt engineer that was one of the hottest jobs. Well, yeah, that was true back in 2023 but not so much. Now. A lot of companies have figured out that the employees that wanted to keep their job, well, they figured out real quick how to be the Ask AI, good questions guy, and we are seeing more layoffs later today, my guest and I will talk about that, and also he's going to make somewhat of a future mortgage rate forecast, or at least talk about the direction that they're going in. I think you're really going to like that. I don't predict rates myself, but sometimes a guest will. That's what's happening today. My point here is that with Qt ending, which again lowers the damn wall height and eases the flow of money, that parallels the fact that we have lower interest rates now than what we had one year ago, and we have lower interest rates now than what we had two years ago. As well, be mindful that you cannot get it all as a real estate investor. You cannot get soaring employment and low interest rates together. You cannot get those two things together, at least not for long. High employment means high rates. Low employment means low rates. Today's guest, and I will get into that as well. Keith Weinhold 12:43 Well as we've had lower rates, hence a lower wall height, don't buy property and expect that you'll be able to refi into a lower rate within a year. If it happens, great. Don't buy expecting rents to go up or rates to go down, although many think that will happen. Just enjoy it. If it does, rent vesting has been on the rise lately. Yes, rent vesting. What that means is when you pay rent in the property where you live, and then the only properties that you own are rental properties. Rent vesting makes sense if you live in California, New York City and Boston, since rent to price ratios are so low there, and then you invest your dollars inland, that's how you can live in a high cost place and yet still benefit from cheap rental property and have income streams from them. You might remember that some months ago, I interviewed two listener guests on the show, everyday listeners, just like you, and California based investor and GRE listener, Joshua Fang, told us about his rent vesting. He pays rent in his primary residence, since the rent to price ratio might be three tenths of 1% there and then he owns property in GRE marketplace markets, I think it was Memphis and elsewhere where you're benefiting from, say, eight tenths of 1% that is called rent, vesting, investing in properties that make sense that you buy through GRE marketplace. And remember when Josh told us that passive income gives him time to enjoy life and even stop and watch two lizards for 15 minutes? Oh, what passive income can do. It's the quirky things that you remember. See. The point is that smart people in high cost states are rent vesting, if that's what you've got to do in order to own real assets. Then do it get on the right side, as this difference between the haves and the have nots just keeps expanding. I just did something that you might find interesting over the weekend for the first time in years. I visited that first fourplex building that I ever owned, which is also the first piece of real estate that I ever owned, that blue colored fourplex, and it is still blue. The address of that property is 925 east, 45th court, and it's in Midtown Anchorage. It has never been a pretty neighborhood, and I confirmed that it still is not. It looks a touch worse than when I owned it. I straightened up the curb appeal more than today's owner does. I bought the four Plex over 20 years ago for $295,000 and at that time, on the day that I bought. The total rents were $2,900 because it was 725 per door. I just looked on Zillow. And do you want to guess at its zestimated value today? Yes, it cost 295k back in 2002 and today, the Zestimate is 625k I don't know what today's rents are. My guess is that they're just short of $6,000 for all four units combined, two bed, one bath, 960 square foot units, really plain vanilla, boring looking housing, but it's certainly not like a crime ridden slum. It's just that depressing looking block that's just chock full of disorder and these other four Plex buildings and dumpsters all over the place. But yeah, that's how it all began for me. I visited that building again, and I haven't owned it in a while. I 1031 exchange out of it and into an eight Plex in 2013 if it weren't for that building, you would not be listening to me right now, and you would not have heard of me, because this show wouldn't exist big thanks to the three and a half percent down FHA loan for someone that came from humble means, like me. Keith Weinhold 17:03 Last month, I did a running race that goes up a ski jump that was pretty cool. It gets so steep that you have to grab onto a cargo net to pull yourself up. It's almost like a rope ladder. I did not win. I got fifth out of 21 competitors in that race. Hey, I like to get out and physically challenge myself. After talking real estate all day, my body weight is up a little. It's currently sitting at 178 pounds. That's 81 kilograms for our European listeners, and it hit its recent bottom of 172 back on the Fourth of July. That's by design. I need to be really leaned out for a big Independence Day race every summer. You know, I'm one of those guys where I still cannot compete with bodybuilders because I'm too lean, and yet I don't win running races because I'm too bulky, so I'm more of an all around guy. I do about seven different sports, and that's exactly how I win nothing and always get like, fifth place or worse. This major mammal has got to keep himself moving, In any case. Keith Weinhold 18:17 next week here on the show, we'll talk to a Harvard grad. She's super interesting. She used to work at Apple, and then she founded an AI centric property management company so that you can use her platform to self manage and leverage AI. But are we at the point where your tenant would really talk to a chatbot? Would that fly? And if society is there, well then do property management fees and everything start trending towards zero. I'm going to ask her about that. That's next week. As for today, you know, the world series ended about a week ago, and what I did is that I watched 10 commercials during the World Series, and then I jotted down the name of each sponsor, and here's who the World Series advertisers were just in this one segment where I paid attention to them. They're all big brands that you've heard of atnt Liberty, mutual nature made brand items like vitamins and supplements, Starbucks, Coors, light, Qdoba, Capital One, Home Depot, crest, white strips and Jim Beam, all right, those were the 10. What do those 10 have in common? More or less, any ideas there those 10 products and companies are all for consumer products. That's the common link. And that might seem so obvious that you wouldn't even think of it. Well, this is because most ads are for consumer products. Those ads fuel consumerism. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. That. Represents an economy. In fact, I use some of those very companies in my personal life. Keith Weinhold 20:04 But here's the difference here at GRE our sponsors help you produce, not consume. Think about that as you listen to me in this spot for freedom, family investments and then Ridge lending group, then I'm coming back for more with a terrific guest. Keith Weinhold 20:23 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 21:34 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com John Lee Dumas 22:08 this is Entrepreneur on...
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578: Why Real Estate Quietly Makes You Rich in Your Sleep
11/03/2025
578: Why Real Estate Quietly Makes You Rich in Your Sleep
Register to attend the live virtual event "How to Scale Your Portfolio, with Tenanted Cash Flowing, New Construction Properties" on Thursday, November 13th at 8pm Eastern. Keith introduces a profound life perspective: humans are typically allotted only 30,000 days. What will you do with the days you have left? Every moment not spent building wealth is a moment lost forever. Adam Schroeder, a real estate investment strategist, joins the conversation to talk about current opportunities with new build properties with significant builder incentives and the potential for high appreciation. Resources: Switch to listening to the podcast on the or , as the dedicated GRE mobile app will be discontinued at the end of the month. Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the real estate market is slow when this happens in a cycle. What does it mean to a real estate investor? What type of return can you really expect today? I'll tell you exactly, and you'll be surprised. Learn more about new build properties and why investors often prefer DSCR loans over conventional loans today on get rich education, Keith Weinhold 0:28 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:13 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:29 Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, yes, America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone is back with you for another wealth building week. Just the talking primate that's heavily mortgaged here. I'm also a landlord still waiting for a security deposit from back in 2018 Keith Weinhold 1:51 Hmm, oh, I'm so into self deprecation today that I forgot about the place names hitting you, from Dover, Delaware to Keith Weinhold 2:01 Andover, Massachusetts and across 188 nations worldwide, you're listening to get rich education. There's a realization that can sharpen your investor focus when you think about the fact that, in a sense, how little time you are allotted in your life. It's something that I've thought about more. You're only given about 30,000 days. That's the typical lifespan of a human being, and that goes for both shaved mammals and others. Well, you've already spent 1000s of your 30,000. The question is, what are you doing with the rest? At some point, people understand or they better that they need to go out on a limb. There are people less qualified than you living the life you want to live simply because they chose to believe in themselves, and really, that's the moment everything shifts. belief. It's not a feeling. It is a decision backed by action. Too many people learn this lesson the hard way. They discover, often too late, that relying on one income stream is the most dangerous financial plan of all. A job can vanish. Federal Workers found that out amidst a government shutdown, a business model can change. AI can intrude. A paycheck can stop. But when you own assets that pay you month after month, no matter what you're doing, you slowly begin to untether yourself and move toward freedom. And here's the truth about pain and money. Poor and middle class households work for money, so to them, that's why every dollar spent feels like a little loss. It can even hurt, and that is why they hesitate even on opportunities that could change everything. The wealthy, on the other hand, own assets that pay them, so therefore every dollar spent feels like a seed, because it grows when you own enough income property, you can move away from constantly asking yourself, can I afford this? And start asking, What will this investment earn me? Over time, this mindset shift changes everything at that time when other people's money starts working for you, not the other way around. Keith Weinhold 4:45 And here's the thought experiment I use, take the hourglass of your life and flip it, watch the sand fall. That's time, 30,000 hours, 30,000 grains. That is. Is time the one resource that you cannot get more of. So every day you delay prudently investing the sand does not pause. It just keeps flowing. But you can choose how that time compounds the sand that's left over and hasn't fallen through the neck of the hourglass. Yet that is your opportunity to build multiple income streams from real estate, from ownership and from leverage, it is your chance to replace anxiety with well autonomy. Every family with generational wealth can trace it back to one person, one risk taker who decided to stop trading hours for dollars. They believed in ownership and control. They believed in themselves. They acted before the sand ran out. If you've already started real estate investing, well, then you've already begun to break that cycle. If you've done it for a time, you're going to have more time, more income and more options than you had before. That is worth celebrating and scaling, because the best time to start was yesterday, and the next best time is before the next grain of sand hits the bottom. Keith Weinhold 6:22 Later today, I'll talk about taking this sentiment and moving it towards something very specific and actionable. Now, in this era, the real estate market is slow. That is in terms of transaction volume, there just aren't as many sales. Sometimes this whole thing feels more sluggish than Jabba the Hutt after Thanksgiving dinner. Keith Weinhold 6:49 5 million is a typical number of existing homes sold every year in the US. 5 million. That's normal. That's baseline during the pandemic frenzy. It reached over 6 million, and now it's about 4 million. That's why I say that housing transaction volume has slowed, and appreciation is only about 2% that's below historic norms, and rent growth is like barely doing push ups. It's two to 3% in single family homes volume now it has picked up a little here lately with lower mortgage rates, and so have home prices. Redfin now tells us that home price appreciation is 3% but most outlets say 2% some analysts that are more optimistic than me call today's housing market healthy. They don't call it slow. And why is that? Well, it's the healthiest it's been since covid, because now you have a good balance of buyers and sellers. The real estate market isn't so miserably deprived of inventory like it was back in 2022 in 2023 but I am going to go with slow now, as you know, I coined the phrase real estate pays five ways back in 2015 Keith Weinhold 8:09 But how exactly does that hold up in today's slow transaction market? Could an income property buyer's return even be disappointing now? Well, let's do it. Let's determine what you can expect if you purchase an investment property here in these slow market conditions, we'll determine your total rate of return in year one. And you know, this will be sort of like dating someone that's not the first date, but to really get to know them, to know if they're potential spouse material. You want to see them at their worst and be sure that they look good on their bad days. So let's just be conservative and use 2% home price appreciation. Say that you buy a 200k single family rental. Now a 20% down payment means 40k down. Sellers are willing to give you concessions now, say that they're going to pay your closing costs, because the 200k that you're paying is their full asking price, so it's your terms and their price. Well, say that you don't get any cash flow. The rent only covers the expenses exactly. Okay, so we're really painting on a not so pretty picture. Here, it would seem. Here we go, in a slow market, the first of five ways you're paid is that erstwhile appreciation. Your property only appreciates 2% from 200k up to 204k not so exciting, until, of course, as we know around here, you realize that your return is your gain on your skin in the game, your 4k gain divided by your 40k down payment gives you a 10% ROI. There it is leverage. Didn't just show up. It brought donuts. 10% just from the first of five ways you're paid. The second way is cash flow. Say that rent minus your 160k mortgage payment here and your operating expenses, that merely breaks even, like I was saying. So 0% additional return from cash flow. And before we add on numbers three, four and five to get your total rate of return in a slow market, let's take a moment to check on Jabba. How's Jabba doing? No, Jabba still hasn't gotten up from that heavy Thanksgiving dinner. It's still a slow market. We've confirmed that we're going to continue Keith Weinhold 10:41 the third way you're paid, as any GRE listener knows by now, is with that ROA return on amortization, also known as principal pay down with a 7% mortgage rate in your 160k loan on this property, an amortization table shows you 1625 bucks a tenant made principal pay down. Divide that by your 40k down again, that is another 4% return. All right, so you add that to your 10% from leverage depreciation, and you've now got 14% Keith Weinhold 11:17 next is your tax benefit. It's a 150k structure value, not the full 200k because raw land can't be depreciated. Multiply that by 3.6% depreciation, that means you've tax sheltered 5400 bucks. That is like a phantom loss that you get to show the IRS. Just a little more math here, and this is as far as you have to stretch it, in visualizing numbers in an audio format at a 24% income tax rate. That is 1296 saved on 40k down again, another 3% for you, and your running total is a 17% ROI before we get to the last one, which is inflation profiting, not inflation hedging, which almost everyone mistakenly says in real estate investing, it is inflation profiting. Keith Weinhold 12:13 Your 160k loan gets eaten by 4800 bucks at a 3% inflation rate, divided by 40k down. And you know, inflation is usually the villain. Now it is the hero. You've got another 12% from inflation profiting. And here's the sum in this slow market, your total year one rate of return is 29% Keith Weinhold 12:43 and you're like, my gosh, did that really just happen? Now you might want to skip back on some parts of that to help make it crystallize in your mind. I've got to tell you before I ran these numbers in this slow market with this 2% appreciation and even assuming zero cash flow, I thought your total rate of return would be in the low 20s, not this high, not 29% Keith Weinhold 13:09 the numbers don't lie. They just don't get enough attention on CNBC. Keith Weinhold 13:16 Now I did use shorthand and simplify. You would also have to adjust your 29% for inflation, just like you do for any investment. So then about a 26% inflation adjusted return for you. Wow. And if you want to know more about what I just used shorthand on, you can always watch the five videos on the five ways real estate pays for free at getricheducation.com/course that's get richeducation.com/course, the most valuable video course you'll ever see on real estate investing, but a huge investor lesson here, an epiphany today, is that it does not take a high growth market to build wealth. Even when it seems like real estate's half asleep, it can still work five jobs for you, we could be near the nadir of the cycle here. Keith Weinhold 14:16 Appreciation has picked up in recent months, with mortgage rates being lower than they've been in a while, but even when appreciation and rent growth slows now, you can see that the ROA tax benefit and inflation profiting just keep working overtime. The bottom line here is that income property still pays a lofty 29% if you buy today, even in a slow market, and this is at a time when investors, a lot of them, don't know what to do with their money, since every market type seems to be near an all time high, and people don't want to buy in at those high levels, and savings accounts pay you less than a gumball machine, owning investment property proves its resilience. I mean, this is why we do this. It's kind of like stocks can party with a surge in an upcycle, and then they can bust and boom and bust and boom. But all the while, instead of partying, real estate just keeps its head down and works the night shift for you, your wealth quietly compounds in the background while the rest of the world panics or debates interest rates on LinkedIn or something. Keith Weinhold 15:33 All right. Well, with that in mind, where can we take advantage of that real estate return and expect to do even better with it, even if the market did stay slow. Well, builders have unsold inventory in places like Texas and Florida, like I mentioned before, and to a lesser extent, in parts of the West as well, but the prices are too high out in the west for a cash flow investor. So today, you can buy at a discount in a way that you absolutely could not during the height of the pandemic. Keith Weinhold 16:06 A guest and I are going to talk about a specific opportunity in today's market, and then how you can exploit it. The National Association of Homebuilders has even noticed that home flippers have switched gears, and increasingly, what flippers are doing is instead buying new build properties and then renting them out, because new builds have lower upkeep costs come with a lower mortgage rate because the builder is buying it down for you, they have lower insurance and they attract a better quality tenant that stays longer, even if the HVAC did break. That's okay, because new build homes often come with a warranty. The smart money knows that new build is where the opportunity is today. That's something that I've discussed for a while here, but today we're getting more actionable. CNBC let us know that the CJ Petra company reports that investors now make up the highest share of Homebuilders in five years. And you'll recall that we've had CJ Patrick, company founder, Rick sharga, on the show a lot with me here the past few years. Some say that the smart money is waking up again. I don't know investor activity is steady, but it's not really that much. It only seems like a lot because the wannabe owner, occupant, buyer has been priced out. So it's better to say that investor activity has been steady. Investors bought fully 1/3 of single family homes this past summer, and that is up from 27% in q1 I'll discuss that more soon. Keith Weinhold 17:44 Hey, you know one thing that makes GRE different is that our show sponsors are here to supplement and benefit your specific investor activity. And another thing is that I use them myself. Thank God we are not here to tell you about pneumococcal pneumonia or your moderate to severe plaque, psoriasis. I don't even know what that stuff means. Freedom, family investments and Ridge lending group. I very know what they're about. I'm a satisfied client with each of them myself. So listen in. Keith Weinhold 18:21 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1937795898, 377958989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 19:32 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridgelendinggroup.Com, that's Ridge lending group.com Kathy Fettke 20:05 this is the real wealth network's Kathy betke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold. Keith Weinhold 20:14 I'd like to welcome in a new guest to the show. He is a real estate investment strategist that's been working in the media industry since 2001 and throughout the career, he's held the title of a local news reporter, podcast host and producer for nationally syndicated companies like NPR. He's been in real estate nearly 20 years. Adam Schroeder, welcome to the show. Adam Schroeder 20:48 Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Keith Weinhold 20:50 Yeah, I'm looking for your read on today's real estate market, just the general landscape overall, because Adam, I've shared that national transaction volume is down about 25% appreciation is still there, although it's been slow. Rents are just steady. We do, however, still have this supply that is down among entry level homes, something a lot of media articles broad brushstroke and don't understand, and really it's still a valid question to ask, even today. Is there any better risk adjusted return than income property that's bought, right? So what are your thoughts on the overall real estate investing landscape? Adam Schroeder 21:30 Yeah, overall real estate investing, it's kind of like what you said, entry level housing. I remember I saw a heat map. This was probably five or six this was pre covid. It was maybe even seven or eight years ago. It was a heat map that showed, like, new construction, home pricing, and, you know, there was like...
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577: The Geography of Wealth: Zero-Tax States, Big Returns with Victor Menasce
10/27/2025
577: The Geography of Wealth: Zero-Tax States, Big Returns with Victor Menasce
Keith discusses strategies for amplifying investing returns and reducing lifetime tax burdens through real estate, geography, and industry. He compares tax burdens by state and explains how investors can leverage low-income tax states and low-property tax states. Podcast host, investor and developer, Victor Menasce, joins the conversation to highlight the industrial real estate market, emphasizing the demand for warehousing and logistics.They touch on the potential in industrial outdoor storage and the complexities of data center investments. Reach out to Capital to learn more about their projects and the . Resources: Switch to listening to the podcast on the or , as the dedicated GRE mobile app will be discontinued at the end of the month. Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:00 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking about how you can use real estate, geography and industry to amplify your investing returns over the course of your life and permanently reduce your lifetime tax burden today on Get Rich Education. Keith Weinhold 0:21 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest, start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 77958989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Corey Coates 1:34 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:49 Welcome to GRE from Milford, Delaware to Milford, Utah and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 now, what do you think about a multi week government shutdown? That means there's a cut in your service level, but of course, oh geez, there's no commensurate cut in the amount of taxes that you pay. This is the government's version of charging rent on a vacant unit. That's what's happening. That's what we've been looking at in the biggest expense you'll ever pay in your life. It isn't housing, it's taxes. Before I get to how you can reduce the amount of taxes that you'll pay throughout the course of your life, which is huge. Let's pull back, and I guess it's a bit of a real estate geography riddle for you, imagine if there were a place that existed, and this place is within a 15 minute drive of a seacoast, 15 minutes of mountains, within 15 minutes of an urban core of about 300,000 people, and within 15 minutes of an international airport and a decent airport that has direct, non stop flights to Europe. Even, could that place exist all of that? I mean, it almost sounds too good to be true when I put it like that, yes, it does, and it's in the United States. On top of that, this same place with proximity, within 15 minutes of all four of those things, has zero state income tax and zero sales tax. Yes, all this is in the same place, and that's where I am coming to you from today, Anchorage, Alaska. I traveled a good bit, and I can't think of another place in the US quite like it. A quick check of Chad GPT corroborates this, saying that the US places that come closest are Honolulu, Juneau and Bellingham, Washington. They come the closest to that. Now, the biggest downside, in my opinion, is a long, dark, cold winter. Well, that's when I do more traveling, but I spend many months of the year right here in Anchorage. And my guest today, who you'll hear from later, I haven't had him on the show in years, where recently he I and his wife, Natasha, toured Anchorage. I drove them around. Keith Weinhold 4:29 first, let me tell you about a creative way to pay both a low property tax and a low income tax, and that is no matter what state or province that you live in now, the big three taxes that people pay throughout their lives are income tax, sales tax and a property tax. Those are the big three, and when you combine those to come up with the highest and lowest tax burdens by state, you'll notice that coastal states often pay the most. They generally have the biggest burden, because coasts attract people, and therefore those highly populated areas, they need infrastructure, say, for example, more bridges, and they often have more social services for people, and it costs tax money to maintain all of that. Now, look, will people move to an area specifically because they can get low taxes there? Like is that amenity in itself an attractant? Actually, not so much. No, you do get some people to move to Puerto Rico, predominantly for that reason. But interestingly, the two states with the lowest overall tax burden, that is, when you combine income, sales and property tax, the lowest are Alaska and Wyoming, and yet they have the fewest people living there, under 1 million people each. So the two states with the lowest tax burdens are also the two least populous states. So it is not making people flock there. So where you choose to live? Oh, that has more to do with your overall quality of life. And you know that's probably as it should be. Well, whether you own your home or you rent your home, you effectively do pay property tax, because tenants end up subsidizing the landlord's expenses. Most property tax maps that you see out there, those national property tax maps, they show the average tax bill that a household pays by state, regardless of real estate values. Well, that's not so useful. You might remember that a few weeks ago in our newsletter, I sent you the best and the smartest property tax map that I have by county. You'll remember that it showed the property tax paid as a percentage of the home value, so that relative basis is what matters more. When we look at property tax paid that way, we can more transparently see that the highest property taxes are generally paid in three US regions. Those three regions with the highest property taxes are the northeast, much of the Great Plains and Texas now a 1% property tax rate is, for example, when you have to pay 4000 bucks a year on a property value of 400k That's that 1% and the lowest are in the Western US and the nation's southeast quadrant, often under 1% we're just talking about the property taxes only here. Now out west, lower property taxes, they still rarely create investor cash flow, and that's because purchase prices are too high out west, and rents don't keep up with them proportionally. But low taxes, they do adequately sweeten the most investor advantaged areas, that is in the southeast Indiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Hawaii, and a bunch of the Mid Atlantic states. All right, so they are the investor advantaged areas that also have low property tax. The nation's lowest property tax rate is in Alabama. Roll tide, I think I've mentioned that on the show before. All right, so that's property tax, but states have to get their revenue somewhere, so oftentimes, if their property tax is low, well then they have to make up for that. So therefore their income or sales tax can be high. Now as far as income tax, each state has their own of course, the high ones are New York, New Jersey, California and Hawaii. Those are many of the high ones. But there are nine states with zero, absolutely zero, state income tax, and those nine states that are free of income tax are the aforementioned, Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming and Washington gets somewhat of an asterisk that has a little wrinkle in it. That's one of the nine with the wrinkle, you'll pay zero income tax on your wages in Washington. It only applies to high earners, capital gains tax income there, all right. Well, all of that is true for everybody there, every US citizen. But here's the arbitrage that a real estate investor can create. If you live in one state and you own property in another state, you always pay property tax where the property is physically located, not where you live. I mean, any longtime out of state real estate investor knows that. So you can therefore live in a state with little or no income tax, for example, Texas, and then a Texas resident can skirt Texas's higher property tax by investing in a different state that has low property tax, like, say, Alabama or Tennessee. Oh, well, now both your property tax and your income tax are low this way. And congratulations, you have just legally exploited the tax system. Some examples of a low income tax home state where you live and a low property tax investor state where your investment property is, so that you get the best of both worlds. They are, Texas is your home state, and Alabama is your investment property state, like I just described, and then a few other scenarios, so that you can legally use the system to pay both a low income tax and low property tax. Are having Pennsylvania as your home state and Missouri as your investor property state, having New Hampshire as your home state and Tennessee is your investor property state. And then another example, having Washington as your home state and Arkansas as your investor state. Those are just some examples of combinations there about how you can live in a low income tax state and then also enjoy having your investment property in a low property tax state and see perhaps now you're doing this without having to move. Yes, investing in low property tax states. Now, of course, property taxes are set at the county or city level. They're not set federally, but just within one state. Sometimes property tax can vary dramatically, which you probably know, but two of the biggest examples of this are in Illinois, Cook County, which is Chicago, and also Miami, Dade County, Florida. I mean those jurisdictions, they have tax rates that can make wallets cry more than their surrounding counties do, and some states have maximums, legal limits ceilings on property taxes. California proposition 13 famously limits property tax to 1% of assessed value, and then the increases are capped as well. I mean this means the two California neighbors with identical homes can pay wildly different taxes, and Florida is still looking to completely eliminate the property tax. Can you imagine that? I mean, it seems doubtful that that will happen, but you can conceive of how much more desirable that would make Florida properties, and that would probably make all Florida housing values skyrocket now, just because a property has a high property tax rate that doesn't disqualify it as an investment property alone, it's just one consideration that'll show up in your proforma, your cash flow. So the bottom line is that as an income property owner, property tax is mostly passed on to your tenant, but paying a low rate still keeps you more flexible and profitable. So think of a map of states with low property taxes, sort of like a treasure map, but instead of x marking the spot, it marks where your money will go the furthest. Keith Weinhold 13:36 And if you want real estate maps like I'm talking about here, and stories and great charts and investment opportunities that I cannot fit onto the channel. Here, you can grab them in my free weekly newsletter at gre letter.com and part of this is because I just cannot adequately describe a map or a chart to you here in an audio format. You get more in the letter free wealth, building insight every week. And it comes straight from me. 1000s of investors read it every week. Don't live below your means. Grow your means. Get It At gre letter.com Again, that's gre letter.com Keith Weinhold 14:20 something interesting just happened when Wells Fargo released their housing forecast for the next two years. Let's discuss that between today and 2027 they expect the federal funds rate to drop by a full 1% but they don't expect mortgage rates to drop as much only about a quarter point drop over the next two years in the 30 year fixed rate. For next year, they expect home prices to rise three and a half percent, and then the year after 3.7%. looking down the road a couple years here, and this is sorced by Wells Fargo economics and the US Department of Labor and the FHFA and more. All right, so only a small reduction in mortgage rates and a pickup in home price appreciation, although still pretty moderate. Now you gotta take any interest rate prediction with a grain of salt, like I've told you here before. I personally, I do not forecast interest rates, and when you're looking at interest rate predictions, you are squarely looking at a waste of your time. Keith Weinhold 15:34 Now, a recent Gallup poll wanted to find out what Americans consider to be the best long term investment. That's the question that the pollsters asked, what is the best long term investment? And the findings were that 16% said stocks. I mean, despite the fact that stocks only seem to make insiders wealthy, still somehow 16% of Americans consider stocks to be the best long term investments, a higher share of Americans, 23% said gold. That actually surprises me, that nearly one quarter of Americans say that gold is the best long term investment, when only about 10% of Americans own gold in the physical form, like bars or coins. And part of this could be driven by the recent hype, where the gold price has more than doubled just since last year, and it broke above $4,000 an ounce for the first time in history this month. All right, so 16% said stocks, 23% said gold. And what's number one in the Gallup poll for what Americans believe is the best long term investment? It's real estate. Ah, well, they got that right. That actually gives me a little more faith than Americans there. Now, when it comes to real estate investment, you know, there's this long running mantra or catchphrase out there that I really disagree with. I mean, you've certainly heard this before, but it just does not resonate with me. And that is, appreciation is just the icing on the cake. That's the catchphrase I am not feeling the vibe there. How in the heck is appreciation just the icing on the cake? The presumption, the inference here, is that cash flow is the main driver of an investment philosophy, and then if you just happen to get appreciation too, oh, well, that's a little sweetener. Like the mantra would say cash flow is the cake, the majority piece, and then appreciation since the icing, oh, that's only a little thing. No, that's misleading. You usually get more of a return from appreciation than you do cash flow. Keith Weinhold 17:56 I mean, on, say, a 400k income property, what if you only get $200 of cash flow? That can happen? That's $2,400 a year. But instead, 5% appreciation on that property gives you $20,000 a year. That is almost 10x. I think what the icing on the cake, curious catchphrase means is that cash flow is important because it controls the mortgage. Well, then I think it's just better to say that appreciation is not an inconsequential thing. It's often the biggest thing. So is appreciation just the icing on the cake? No, it certainly is not. In fact, I'm going to talk more about that next week when I've got something special planned for you here on the show. What I'm going to do then is look at the ways real estate pays you five ways in a slow market, the real estate market is slow. If you look at it on a basis of transaction volume, say that you buy a property today and over the next year, you don't even get what Wells Fargo forecasts say you only get 2% appreciation and zero cash flow. Just break even on a monthly basis. I mean, there's surely some disappointing numbers, but just say that's what happens. Well, next week, I'm going to add up what your total rate of return would be even in this dour scenario, and I think that you are going to Marvel be flabbergasted at how profitable you are if you just got 2% appreciation and zero cash flow. That's next week. Keith Weinhold 19:36 As far as today, I'm about to bring in a super smart guest that hasn't been on the show here in a few years. He's usually a fellow faculty member on the real estate guys invest or summit at sea. But he wasn't there with me this year, so we met up in Anchorage. Instead, we're talking about changes to commercial real estate that market, and the opportunities that you might be able to find there from Industrial land, an activity that well generates noise, like Bitcoin mining operations and growing data centers with the increased use of AI. And as you listen, see if you know what I mean about how he feels professorial in his approach, and I mean that in the best possible way you can learn from him. He's from Ottawa, Canada, an international conversation coming up next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 577, of get rich education. Keith Weinhold 20:34 If you're scrolling for quality real estate and finance info today, yeah, it can be a mess. You hit paywalls, pop ups, push alerts, Cookie banners. It's like the internet is playing defense against you. Not so fun. That's why it matters to get clean, free content that actually adds no hype value to your life. This is the golden age of quality email newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor. It's direct, and it gets to the point, because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter takes less than three minutes to read, and it leaves you feeling sharp and in the know about real estate investing, this is paradigm shifting material, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video, course, completely free as well. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be simpler to get visit gre letter.com while it's fresh in your head, take a moment to do it now at gre letter.com Visit gre letter.com Keith Weinhold 21:46 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com, that's Ridge lending group.com, Tarek El Moussa ...
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576: How to Cut Vacancies and Keep Tenants Twice as Long - with Mid South Home Buyers
10/20/2025
576: How to Cut Vacancies and Keep Tenants Twice as Long - with Mid South Home Buyers
Keith sits down with Terry Kerr and Matthew Vanhorn, the leaders of America’s oldest turnkey real estate provider, Mid South Home Buyers, to unpack the practical systems that keep thousands of rental units profitable and tenants happy. With national renter mobility dropping, longer stays are now the norm. Average resident stay is 4 years—double the industry average, thanks to proactive maintenance and relationship-driven management. Instead of fighting for eyeballs on Zillow, they target HR departments at hospitals, universities, and major employers, tapping into pre-screened, income-verified tenants with stable paychecks and predictable work schedules. Invest where returns still make sense. Visit to book your investor tour and get $500 off your first property. Resources: Switch to listening to the podcast on the or , as the dedicated GRE mobile app will be discontinued at the end of the month. Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, learn about how to cut your rental property vacancies and keep tenants twice as long. Why Memphis, Tennessee stays the cash flow King, and exactly where to find really low cost, quality properties today. That make sense from day one today on, get rich education. Keith Weinhold 0:26 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There is real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Corey Coates 1:39 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:49 Welcome to GRE from New York's Long Island Sound to Washington's Puget Sound and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. There's an economic trend that you need to be aware of. We're going to talk about how you can play it in this era, sources ranging from Redfin to Housing Wire and others, you know they're all in agreement that the transiency rate, that mobility rate for Americans, is down. And what that means is, when people find a place to live, whether they're a property owner or a renter, they are staying put longer. They put this big, heavy anchor down, and that kind of goes along with employment. Although the unemployment rate is low right now, there aren't very many people moving jobs or changing jobs. So the rate of hiring is low, that's bad, but the rate of employer firings is low, that's good. So on balance, Americans are keeping their job if they've already got one, and they're keeping their home if they've already got one. But because movement has slowed, as we are in this slower housing market, I'll drastically oversimplify here. All right, a few years ago, you might have had a tenant stay for two years, and then there would be a one month vacancy between tenancies today, double both of those. You're more likely to see a four year stay, but two months between vacancies. So your occupancy rate, therefore, is the same in both scenarios, but there's less movement. Again, oversimplifying, but you can see the effect a longer vacancy period is bad, a longer tenant retention period is good, all right. Well, how do you increase your tenant's length of stay and decrease that vacancy in order to be more profitable as an investor and yet give your tenant a satisfactory experience too well. One thing that you can do is list your vacant unit with an employer. Yeah, advertise it through a local stable company. You're going to end up with higher quality tenants. See, there's already this built in screening that was done for you. The employer basically did that for you. So when you work directly with especially hospitals, universities, corporate campuses or military bases, what you're doing is you're fishing from a pond of already vetted, income verified and drug screened candidates. See these tenants what they had to do. They already had to pass HR background checks and employment verification in order to get their job. So for you, that saves you both risk and time compared to the you know, the Craigslist style roll the dice crowd. Now, Of course, we cannot discriminate against certain groups of people, and we'll get into that shortly. But of course, steady employment equals steady rent tenants sourced through employers. They usually have reliable paychecks, often through direct deposit. They've got predictable work schedules, and there's going to be less income volatility. So that means that you'll have fewer late payments and lower eviction risk. And some landlords, you know what they do, they even structure rent payments through payroll deduction. I mean that essentially automates the rent collection. Yes, you can do that. Employees who move for a job, they often sign longer leases, because relocating again would be a hassle. So many will stay in your unit as long as they stay employed. That could be two years or five years, especially in the health care, education and tech sector. So less turnover means fewer make ready costs for you, fewer showings and just more ease and peace of mind. So advertising through employers that is a really low competition marketing channel as well. You know, most landlords, they blast their listings on Zillow apartments.com or maybe Facebook marketplace. Well over there, your post is just one out of hundreds, instead of all that competition, what you're doing is you're finding quiet, uncrowded channels when you utilize these employer housing boards and their HR relocation departments, and this way you can even get inside that company's internal newsletters so you're reaching renters before they can even start scrolling listings over on Zillow and see employers love this too. It's not like the employer is having to do a favor for you. They love it, because when they can help new hires or transferees find housing, it's better for that company. It reduces the employee's stress. It improves the retention at that company. If they have an employer that's satisfied and has a good place to stay, and it really boosts that company's recruiting success. So you're helping yourself, you're helping that company, and you're helping their new employee, which is your tenant. So this makes HR departments. They are surprisingly receptive to you. They might even circulate your listing internally or add you to their housing resource list. So this is a perfect fit for these hands off turnkey investors. So if you're doing that or you're managing properties remotely, this employer outreach, it really gives you a nice extra layer of reliability. And as far as the people that will be your tenants, think about nurses, engineers. IT staff, sometimes teachers, sometimes military based personnel. I mean, they are all ideal long term tenants. Now the way that you can actually do this and put it into practice is identify major employers that are near your property, that could be hospital systems, that could be universities or manufacturing plants, then contact their HR or the relocation department, and after that, it's not hard just provide them with a concise PDF or a one page flyer with your property photos and the monthly rent amount. And one thing you can do, and you should in this case, is put the distance or the time it takes to travel to the employer from your rental unit, and then add your contact info. That is exactly how you do it. You can offer a small incentive, like $50 off the first month for employees. So this is a slick way to advertise your vacancy with employers and make you more profitable over time. Keith Weinhold 7:02 Now today, we're going to talk to who is actually America's oldest turnkey real estate company. As far as we know, they're based in Memphis, Tennessee, and we'll learn how they advertise a vacant unit and screen prospective tenants and place them and maintain their units over time. They are called mid south homebuyers. You've heard them on the show before, and because of their success, both investors and other real estate companies, they actually listen in intently to what these people have to say. I mean, others study them and learn from them. These are the people other companies study, and you're still going to hear from their principal and their sales lead about reducing your vacancy time and increasing your tenant duration. And, you know, it's just kind of funny how often Memphis, Tennessee, which is where they're based, how often this comes up in cash flowing real estate conversations that you have out there over time? I mean. And Memphis consistently has the best cash flow, maybe, amongst any substantial Metro in the nation. We'll just say among metros that are big enough to have a major pro sports team. I mean, Memphis does have the NBA Grizzlies. There aren't many other cities that can even compete with Memphis as the cashflow King, although there are some that you can work into the conversation. Indianapolis, Cleveland and Oklahoma City are some of those places. Now, before we're done, you'll also learn about how, even following this generation's big inflationary wave, how purchase prices are still as affordable as they are in both Memphis and Little Rock. I mean, this is going to make you ask out loud today, how could they still be so low? We'll also talk about conventional, enduring property management techniques today, now next month here on the show, we're going to talk about how you can use AI to self manage your properties, and that show next month is going to be with an expert straight from Silicon Valley. We're going to talk to the CEO of hemlane then and their AI driven property management software. She used to work for Apple, and she's got a Harvard Business School degree. That is next month today. It's about tried and proven techniques to make you more profitable as an investor Keith Weinhold 11:24 I'd like to welcome in longtime friends of the show, with the emphasis on long time since they were first here with us, nearly 11 years ago, They are those ever steady property providers based in Memphis, mid south homebuyers. They also serve Little Rock, Arkansas. I have physically walked their offices and properties in person myself. They are, in fact, America's oldest turnkey real estate provider. And it's the return of their founder and principal, Terry Kerr and a second guest who you'll meet shortly, Terry, welcome back on of the show. Terry Kerr 12:04 Thanks so much, Keith, so glad to be back. Keith Weinhold 12:07 Congrats on your success. Your model and operation is prominent and exemplary nationally. You've now grown to 110 w2 employees there, and your 13 plus year property management guru who's been leading that entire division is now your sales director. It's terrific to introduce him to the world today. Matthew Van Horn, Matthew Vanhorn 12:31 Keith, so great to be on here. Long time listener of the show. Really great to meet you. Keith Weinhold 12:36 Yeah. Appreciate it now you'll soon be listening to yourself on the show. GRE, listeners are familiar with the turnkey real estate model. What you do is buy a distressed property, you rehab it, and then you place a tenant in the property, and you hold on to that for investors across the nation for the production of long term cash flow. Well, let's get an update between Memphis and Little Rock. How many properties do you hold under management for investors now and then? What percent are single family rentals versus other types? Terry Kerr 13:07 Right now, we're about 57 maybe a little closer to 5800 and the vast majority of them are single family houses. I'm going to say probably. What 5% are duplexes? Matthew, something like that. Yeah, something like that. So no other multis, just single family, most of them rehabs. And of course, now we're doing a new construction direct to rental as well. Keith Weinhold 13:29 Interestingly, with 58 to 5900 rentals, I mean, you can easily sort of be your own surveying outfit in an informal way, in finding out what's happening with the market, what all the dynamics are. So why don't we start at the beginning, when you're marketing and advertising and looking to place a tenant, tell us about just what you look for, just what you need to avoid. I mean checking for the tenant. That typically involves an employment check, a credit check, a rental history. Sometimes something might appear like a red flag, say, a 590 credit score. Would you always accept tenants in that condition? Because there are times when there are extenuating circumstances when a tenant with a 590 credit score actually might be a good placement. So tell us more about that screening. Terry Kerr 14:17 As you know, it is renters that drive our returns as investors, and so selecting the right renter is where the money is made in this business, for sure, we are doing as much screening as we can for our renters. There's a lot that goes into that. We actually have a whole processing department. You know some people here who spend their whole day working in the processing division. And what you really got to watch out for, as far as red flags, is just fraud. There are so many ways you can use machines to defraud, and we have people who are able to detect and weed out the bad actors there, but we know what works really well. We have, for instance, in. Arkansas, the main employer of our residents is Baptist Health Medical Center, and we love our healthcare workers there. So that's a place that, you know, starting from the marketing side, we're going to dial up our marketing in those places we're going to go to the HR department, or we're often in the HR department of Baptist Health Medical Center, pushing and asking for referrals from them, you know. And same with just referrals in general, good tenants tend to refer other good tenants. We're of course, looking for strong income that we can verify. And more than anything, we're looking for strong, credible current rental history, so someone who's paying the rent today somewhere to a verified landlord, not their sister, you know, but a very verified landlord. That's the big thing, Keith. Keith Weinhold 15:50 Tell us more about that. That's great that you're being proactive and getting right in there with a stable, steady employer. That is where our rent comes from. After all, are there any other red flags, maybe things that people would not think about identifying as a red flag when it comes to that employment, in that credit, in that rental history Matthew Vanhorn 16:11 one reason I bring up the localized marketing that some people may not think about is that renters who move from Out of state often will land in a place and then stay there for one year, which is fine, but then they often don't renew their lease and they'll move somewhere else. Now, of course, what we have to do above all is we have to be legal, you know, so we can't discriminate against someone from coming from out of town, but what we can do is dial up our localized marketing so that we're getting people who are in the neighborhood, who love the neighborhood already where they are, and so that contributes to longer residence days, and it's just little things like that. Once again, you're looking for employment that you can verify, so that you know that you're getting a quality renter. Terry Kerr 16:59 I'll also say that one of the ways that we try to attract the most potential residents we can is by having a free application. So typically, a property management company is going to charge, you know, 50 to 75 bucks per applicant. And we're very fortunate that we've get a terrific deal from Equifax, because we're also lenders, we do some lending to our investors, which gives us a really good deal on paying for credit checks. And so we waive those fees for our residents. And so a lot more folks are going to apply with us, because it doesn't cost them anything to apply. And of course, the more people that apply, you've got a much better shot at a filling the property quicker, but also finding a much better resident. Keith Weinhold 17:44 well this is a great part of building the connection. One of the first interactions they have with you is realizing that you don't have any application fee. And AI can be great for marketing and for doing things like writing listing descriptions, but you build that human connection there. For example, you do in person showings. You invite prospective tenants in current tenants into your physical office, kind of replacing society's trust crisis with humanity. Matthew Vanhorn 18:14 Yes, that's right, Keith. In the last 12 months, we've spent more money than ever on technology, so we are leaning heavily into creating the systems and processes that allow us to get to our service quickly. And at the same time, we've invested more into staffing up in the past 12 months, into inviting people into our office, you know, and we can still do everything remotely. We can do it virtually for folks who want that, we found that a lot of residents love to look us in the face, and they like to come down to our office, and they like to sit across from Karen and across from Gabby, and they just love the personalized experience that we give them. It's hard to quantify it, Keith, but I just really believe that it drives longevity, right? Keith Weinhold 19:04 Having a face behind that rental because your properties are freshly rehabbed, or, in some cases, they're new builds, so hopefully you won't have too many tenant service calls once they do become a resident, and you don't need to interact with them all the time, though you're there for them, but once you have chosen a tenant, and that tenant is placed, you know somebody has to be the adult in the lease, and we sincerely hope that the tenant is one of them. So with regard to that, how do you help ensure that tenants keep making on time payments, and you can keep tenants and not get ones that break the lease. So can you speak to us about that, how you can help identify that in...
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575: The American Dream Now Costs $5 Million
10/13/2025
575: The American Dream Now Costs $5 Million
Keith discusses the rising cost of the American dream, now estimated at $5 million, due to inflation and housing prices. He highlights the affordable housing crisis, with more Americans living in RVs and homelessness up 18% since last year. The NAR's "Best Week" report highlights the benefits of buying during this time, including lower prices and more favorable terms. Resources: IMPORTANT: GRE mobile app listeners - Switch to listening to the podcast on the or , as the dedicated GRE mobile app will be discontinued at the end of the month. Check out the free video course on real estate investing at . Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the American dream now costs $5 million learn just what that will mean for you. The beauty of 50 year mortgages, then after 11 years, I share the most depressing thing I've ever said on the show today on get rich education. Keith Weinhold 0:26 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Corey Coates 1:39 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:55 Welcome to GRE from Norwich, Connecticut to Norwich, North Dakota, and across 188 nations worldwide, you're listening to get rich education. I'm Keith Weinhold. You probably know me by now, but if you're new, I am an active member of the Forbes real estate Council. You can see my work in the USA Today. And of Paramount import, I am an active real estate investor. We're talking about America's top shaved mammal on a microphone here, but suffice it to say, this mammal has at least shaved just how can this slack jawed mammal persist in this environment? Well, I don't know, but I've been doing it here for more than 11 years now. More on that later. This is episode 575, and each episode's release is a bigger deal than releasing the Epstein files. Today is no exception, although today's show release will get fewer people in trouble than the release of the Epstein files. Speaking of people in trouble. It is the middle class. It's the average American and the average Canadian too, because it now costs $5 million to fuel the American dream. But yet, at the same time, hordes of people are now going the other direction, and they're getting poorer. The affordable housing crisis that we've talked about here seems to probably still have not reached its crescendo. Or perhaps, if you know music, it's the opposite a diminuendo. Things are getting to a low point. How bad is it? Getting well priced out of a permanent home. More and more Americans are living full time on RVs, not like nice, fancy RVs either. Beaters. 486,000 Americans are now estimated to live in RVs because they are out of options. And the more soul crushing part of this is that that number has more than doubled just since 2021 I've got two minutes of astonishing audio footage of this to share with you shortly about the RV living homelessness is up 18% Since last year, that figure is sourced by HUD. HUD has the best stat set on homelessness, and that's a problem that's increasingly visible in your own city, more likely than not. And you know, I have personally gotten into more than just surface level chats casually with food servers and baristas, just these quick chats with them. And you know what they divulge to me, that they're living in their car. Yeah, I'm not probing and asking about that sort of thing, but they just share that with me, yeah, food servers and baristas that I just met. They will often tell me that they're living in their car within five minutes of chatting with them, and when they do that, by the way, it also makes me wonder if they're trying to get me to feel bad for them, and they're freely telling me that just to get a tip from me. Well, today, mobile homes are even being coveted. I mean living in a trailer park that is affordable housing. We covered that on last week's show now the real estate company Redfin and Ipsos, they conducted a survey of more than 4000 US homeowners and renters, and they asked respondents about the struggle to afford housing. And it was astounding to learn that to string together a life where they have stable housing, how people are doing all these things, they're delaying having children, they're getting rid of their pets, and some are going through the discomfort of living with an ex spouse just to have affordable housing, as far as what is now almost half a million Americans living full time on RVs and growing since they can't afford a home. NBC covered this, and it is sad. Let's listen into just how squalid the living conditions are, quickly profiling two people as this reporter goes on their tiny RVs. I mean, as you listen to this, okay, keep reminding yourself, keep telling yourself this is America today. And as you'll see, this isn't even in a high cost part of the nation that we're about to profile here again, tell yourself this is America today. Well, this NBC field reporter gets shown the insides of two different RV units by two separate owners, each living by themselves, first a man and then a woman. This is about two minutes in length Speaker 1 6:53 for Gus Francis. This is home a 20 year old camper he bought for $5,000 parked in an RV lot in Graysville, Tennessee, just north of Chattanooga. I got all my rosaries for protection everywhere. Books, books, books. now retired, he worked for decades as a commercial diver and hoped to live closer to his widowed mother, but when he sought a more conventional home, I just can't see how people with their normal job making 15 bucks an hour can afford an apartment without multiple roommates. Meals are made in the microwave, the stove unused for fear of a gas leak. Right next door is Debbie Williams. She sold her house in Kentucky to be closer to her grandchildren, but housing prices near Chattanooga increased by almost 50% since 2020 apartments are like about 1200 a month, but then you got your utilities to pay. This is permanent, plus it include is like 550 a month includes electric water, saving over everything. It includes everything. Debbie works nights, helping adults with disabilities, and says she likes her setup, even if the exercise bike doesn't fit inside. Okay? I like my shower. It's really nice. And then my bedroom, Debbie and Gus now among the nearly half a million people in the US living in RVs full time. I sometimes thought, Man, if I could have saved more money in the past. But what it was is, I don't blame myself, either, because I raised four kids with no child support, despite the tight quarters, plenty of room to build a community that matters. Ellison Barber, NBC News, Graysville, Tennessee Keith Weinhold 8:46 gosh, cramped and modest conditions there again. Tell yourself this is America today, and see, here's the thing. From all outward signs, these two people profile. They're not substance abusers. They're not criminals that can't get a job. These are American workers that have been productive people throughout their lives. The first guy, Gus said he worked for decades as a commercial diver, and that part of Tennessee, it's not a place in the nation where the cost of living is exorbitant, either the crux of the problem here is not just the wave of inflation that started in 2021 the essence of it is the fact that inflation has outpaced wage growth. Will you ever get to having a $5 million net worth? Because that's what it takes to live the American dream today. Now, a while back, I told you how, if you amass $5 million really that's the number, that's the threshold where you could probably stop working and just invest such that you could live off it forever. But inflation. Changes that and it keeps upping that number. Well, since then, Investopedia recently came up with this $5 million price tag that's just for living the American dream in today's dollars. Let's look at what that really means, and then we'll add up the spending categories. This is really interesting. All right, the definition of the American dream. What that means is owning a home, raising two kids, retiring comfortably, and maybe throwing in an annual vacation or two. So a nice life, for sure, but nothing extravagant and okay, yes, there is this other angle of like, Money cannot buy the best things in life, and that's true. There's a lot to be said for that, but this is not a relationships in a dating show, okay? So that's why I'm covering the financial angle here, and later today, I'll tell you how much the typical American makes throughout their lifetime, which is much less than 5 million bucks. But to get to that exact $5 million total, which is the least that you now need in net worth, the estimated lifetime costs of eight milestones most often associated with a dream were added up by Investopedia. And now, of course, everyone's dream is different, and housing costs differ nationally. But, I mean, this is pretty reasonable. Here they are. This is how much it takes for each of them today. And I'm doing some rounding retirement, over $1.6 million that's what it takes now. Healthcare, 414k this is all spent over the course of your lifetime, a wedding 38k And I hope that is wedding singular, not weddings plural, owning a home, 957k raising two children and paying for college that costs. 876k and then owning a new car, that is another 900k Yeah, that sounds like a lot, but that will include costs of financing and insurance and depreciation on cars throughout your life, and then a yearly vacation is 180k throughout your life, and pets, 39k All Right. There it is. That is the $5 million total for the American dream. And again, that is only in today's dollars. Inflation will, of course, make all of these future costs run up. All right, housing is really the biggest part of the dream. I mean, second to retirement anyway, all right. Again, the lifetime cost of housing, like I said, is 957k just a year ago, it was 930k okay, well, the national median list price of a single family home is about 430k I guess that makes sense. Most people live in multiple homes throughout their lives. Well, the price per square foot is up 50% just since 2019 that is what is pricing people out. That is what is making people become your renter instead of a homeowner. Well, this $5 million required for the dream, that is why more people are homeless or more people are living in RVs. This means that the demand for the product that you're providing to the marketplace affordable housing, that demand is considerable, and that demand is durable, and the median lifetime earnings for one American with a bachelor's degree is only $2.8 million. All right, so that's just over half as much as it takes to live the dream. But here's what's appalling. Are you ready? Here we go. This could be the most depressing and concerning stat you've heard on this show, maybe one of the most depressing and concerning in your entire life when you really think this through. All right, now, what do you think of as sort of a model for someone that is stable? How about both married and a homeowner? I mean, yeah, they're two big markers, married and home ownership that is foundational stuff when your kids grow up to be adults, if they become married in a homeowner. I mean, come on, who would be disappointed with that? That would probably make you feel proud and fulfilled. I mean, the future of the nation that is children and stable household formation material, right there. Well, by age 30, how many people do you think are married in a homeowner today, and how has that changed over time? What do you think this is the percent of 30 year olds who are both married and homeowners in the US? Right back in 1950 it was 52%. today Okay, it is just a quarter of that. Only 13% of American 30 year olds are married homeowners today. Gosh, is that appalling? Or what? I mean, it doesn't exactly give you hope for the future, since Owning a home is a key pillar of the American dream, then the best thing that our local, state and federal lawmakers can do is to make it easier to build new housing. That is one of the most depressing stats I gave in 11 years of doing the show, probably the most depressing another thing we can do is not protest or block new development, no nimbyism. Keith Weinhold 15:45 Now, earlier this year, the White House announced that they are considering declaring a national housing emergency. In fact, you saw me put a link to that in the section of our newsletter that we call the five, though we haven't seen a national housing emergency declared yet. If we do it all, the motivation behind it is largely to make housing affordable. One piece that's been floated out there is the introduction of a 50 year mortgage so that way mortgage payments are spread out and made lower than they are with the most popular mortgage in America today, by far, the 30 year fixed rate mortgage. Now, I wouldn't say that a 50 year mortgage is eminent and is about to happen. We can't say that, but it could be creeping closer. I mean, a 40 year mortgage that is already more of a thing. You've got 40 year HUD loans and 40 year DSCR loans both already here for residential property. We do know that buyers buy property more so based on a payment than they do the overall price of the property. Now look, I'll tell you if I could somehow magically snap my fingers and convert all of my 30 year mortgage loans over to 50 year loans. Oh, I sure would. It would lower my payment and increase my cash flow. Yes, my debt would hang around longer and well, we're right back to, you guessed it, financially free beats debt free. Let's run that comparison on a 300k loan at 6% interest, a 30 year mortgage payment, that is 1800 bucks a month, but on a 50 year loan that would be just 1580 Yeah, $1,800 versus 1580 1580 Well, that is going to boost your cash flow by $220 a month on that property, just by going from a 30 year to a 50 Year at the same interest rate. So maybe not as much of a difference as you thought, but probably worth doing, at least in the mortgage world debt free. I mean that concept of debt free that makes most people, in exchange for that debt free condition, grind and toil and work overtime and lose family time and eat dirt for decades because inflation and all these other forces work against them. And yes, this is just with mortgage debt that I'm talking about here. Of course, some debt is bad, like unsecured, high interest rate credit cards or doing a buy now, pay later, plan on a pizza that you split into four payments. That's ridiculous. And those are the type of debts you've also got to pay yourself. That's not what we're talking about here. In fact, it gets even worse for the mortgage debt free person. That extra $220 you're paying by having a 30 year loan instead of a 50 year loan, that would mean you're accumulating more dollars in home, which are illiquid. And again, 50 year loans don't exist yet, but understanding this concept and this trade off helps you be a better investor. Look, a debt free person can still be broke in the short term if they have a meager income, and they can be broke in the long term if they are not leveraging assets and debt. Being debt free, that is like bragging that you quit the gym so that you'll never pull a muscle again. I mean, you're safe for now, but you're going to be weaker in the long run. Let's use a different example. Let's just run a different set of numbers. Let's say you've got a 400k mortgage at three and a half percent interest, though your monthly payment is 1796 on a 30 year fixed. Some people think, Oh, if I just throw an extra $1,000 a month at this, I'm going to be debt free years sooner. And the truth is, yes, you will save 90k in interest, and you are. Going to own the house outright earlier. But what's the opportunity cost if that same 1k a month went into investments earning even 7% annually, after 15 years, it grows to about 311k Keith Weinhold 20:16 Well, that is more than three times the interest savings, which again, was only 90k so for some paying off the mortgage early feels like some sort of emotional win, but it is rarely the best financial win. I mean, that is like benching LeBron to save money on Gatorade. I mean, that is a bunch of nonsense. So debt free is the floor. Financially Free is the ceiling. I mean, do you know about those popular call in shows where people are advised to lower their standards, diminish their quality of life, not go on vacations in order to get debt free? Oh, dear. I mean, those shows have got to be screening their callers closely to ensure that no one savvy actually gets on the air. Somebody, hey, how about you? Why don't you get on the air? Get on that show. Ask them some tough questions about getting mortgage debt free. You tell them yeah. Tell them that your ROI on all that equity is zero because home values change regardless of equity positions. Tell them that a home is never paid off because you'll still owe property tax and maintenance and repairs and utilities and maybe insurance and an HOA. Tell them you lost the gift of inflation eating your debt while you sleep. Tell them mortgage interest is often tax deductible. Tell them that their leverage is gone, and all these facts, every one of those I just stated, they're now figuratively not just talking. They're yelling. They're screaming now, because markets of all types are at all time highs. So instead, if you had used those funds to pay off a property, they would have really missed out on earning big returns for years elsewhere, a steep opportunity cost. Suffice it to say, I would love to see the widespread adoption of 50 year mortgages, and I would use them. The other thing that would happen is that it would make home prices rise further, because more people can afford the lower payments to bid up the price. So actually, here's something that I'm wondering about with you. Did you ever have a paid off property, and then realize all of this, and then go and get new financing on it again. Have you ever done that? If you have that would be really interesting. Let us know if you've...
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574: Parking Lots and Mobile Home Parks: Do They Have a Real Estate Future?
10/06/2025
574: Parking Lots and Mobile Home Parks: Do They Have a Real Estate Future?
Are You Missing Out on Real Estate's Best-Kept Secrets? Imagine investing in properties where: -Tenants fix their own roofs -You can boost income with a few tech upgrades -Most investors are too scared to even look This episode reveals two underground real estate niches that could change your wealth strategy forever: Mobile Home Parks and Parking Lots Special Guest: Kevin Bupp, an investor with over $1 BILLION in real estate transactions under his belt shares how everyday investors are building wealth in places others overlook. Resources: Grab your FREE real estate investment white papers and unlock hidden wealth strategies at Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:00 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about first mobile home park investing and then investing in parking lot assets. What makes them profitable? What gets investors excited about mobile home parks and parking lots? What are the risks and what's the future of both of these real estate asset classes? All with a terrific guest today on get rich education. Keith Weinhold 0:28 You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom. Coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989, Corey Coates 1:40 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world.This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:56 Welcome to GRE from Burlington, Vermont to Burlington, Washington and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside get rich education. We are all firmly in the fall season. Now, autumn, if you prefer. And as we often do, we're discussing residential real estate investing today, but it's two different and distinct niches within that, and I guess they both have to do with wheels, as it turns out, mobile home parks in the first part of the show and then parking assets later today. I think there's a compelling future use case for at least one of those two to speak to our international audience for a moment, but this will actually help clarify things for you. If you're a North American too, though it's called a mobile home, well, it doesn't really have that much to do with wheels. There might not be any wheels on it. And if a resident lives inside one of these for, say, a decade, well then it's probably going to remain attached to that same location on the ground all 10 years. That's why a mobile home is often referred to now as a manufactured home. What it is is it's a factory built residence, constructed on a permanent chassis and then transported to a site. I mean, that's what we're talking about here, and they are a less expensive alternative to traditional homes that have, say, a cast in place, concrete foundation. So therefore, understand, mobile homes are affordable housing, highly affordable housing, and that's really important in this housing affordability crisis. And I've talked quite a bit about that on the show, and the meager national supply of that all types of affordable housing, they are recession resilient. I mean, that's just one reason why we love affordable housing types here at GRE where we're often buying rental property just below an area's median price. You know, people think of mobile home parks MHPS, that they're all crime ridden and that there are slumlords. But that is not true in every case. There are actually nice ones. If you're an MHP investor, you often only own the land beneath the structure, and not the mobile home itself. The resident owns the mobile home itself. So therefore, if there's a leaky roof or a window needs replacement, or flooring needs replacement, that is on the resident to fix, not you. MHP dwellers, they often don't have to pay property tax, though, because, like I said, they don't own the land. The landlord, or the community, therefore, is the one that has to pay the property tax. So there's some thoughts on mobile home parks for you, parking asset, real estate that's still settling into its post pandemic pattern with Return to Office mandates that aren't really fully matured yet. We're still settling in and seeing how that is going to look. And then when it comes to parking lots, you got to wonder about its future. When you consider the proliferation of autonomous cars, will that make parking lots obsolete? I'll have our guest address that longtime GRE listeners, you might remember episode 13 of this show, yeah, almost 11 years ago, that episode was about how autonomous cars will affect your future and your real estate and the very need for parking lots and a lot of what I discussed there in early 2015 that is beginning to come true, but this autonomous car adoption that is way slower than a lot of people thought. I mean, most Americans, they still have not been inside an autonomous car at all. A lot of people are still saying that they don't trust that that should change soon. But as for now, I'm just guessing that fewer than one in 10 Americans have been inside an autonomous car, probably quite a bit less than that. Today's terrific guest has over $1 billion in real estate transactions under his belt. This should be interesting. He is a specific investor in both mobile home parks and parking assets. Keith Weinhold 6:26 Today's guest is a seasoned real estate investor entrepreneur, and he's a prominent voice in the space, because he hosts the real estate investing for cash flow show. He's built a strong reputation as an expert in two niches that have less competition than some other investments, and we'll discuss those two today. They are mobile home parks and also parking asset investments too often overlooked yet pretty profitable niches, and he and I have a lot in common. I'm on the Forbes real estate Council. He is on the Forbes Technology Council. He and I are both native Pennsylvanians. It's been quite a few years. Hey, welcome back to GRE it's Kevin Bupp. Kevin Bupp 7:06 Hey, Keith, thanks for having me back. And yeah, excited to be here, my friend, and excited to finally get caught up. When you referenced that, it was nearly eight years since we last spoke. I was taken back a little bit because A lot's happened in past eight years. Keith Weinhold 7:21 I know that's wild with where things are at. People didn't even know the meaning of the word pandemic when you were last here on the show, Kevin, let's talk about really the case for mobile home parks. I know they can be a strong, cash flowing asset once people are really dialed into them. I think what's interesting is, since you were last here on the show, really, from the pandemic on, it's been a well documented national story where lay people just know about how the supply of housing just is not adequate in order to meet demand, and what that usually means, just talking about the single family space is, of course, they're building, but they're not building fast enough to keep up with population growth and housing demand. But what's so compelling about mobile home parks is, I mean, they're barely even building them anymore, like they are contracting in supply in a lot of areas. So tell us more about the compelling case for mobile home parks. Kevin Bupp 8:16 Yeah, well, you had a big one. You know? It's an asset class that has a diminishing supply, right? We can get into the reasons behind that. But, you know, just from a high level perspective, one of the other factors as it relates to, you know, available homes, available housing for the growing population, is that while they are building stick boat homes, they're not fulfilling the needs of those that actually need affordable housing. So there's not a lot of the average working household can't necessarily afford the starter home any longer, and so mobile home parks are unique. I truly feel they're the best vehicle to help us fill this void of housing, affordable housing that is really needed throughout the entirety of the country. I mean, there's very few markets in this country that are still affordable. There's some places you can still go buy. You can probably go to Flint, Michigan, buy a home for 50 or $60,000 but generally speaking, I think the median home price today, I think it's crested over 400,000 I don't have the exact number, but I do believe over $400,000 and the average starter family, or even folks that are, you know, just working two jobs, making 40, $50,000 a year, they can't afford to purchase that type of home, a $400,000 home. And so again, these mobile homes you had mentioned, they're not building mobile home parks any longer. However, they're still building new mobile homes, and it's kind of interesting what's evolved over the past 10 years. The quality of the product is it's like a night and day difference of what it looked like 1015, years ago, of the homes themselves to what they look like today, and what you get for your money. You know, the average single wide that we might be putting into a community, brand new home, 13, 1400 square feet. Someone could come in and for roughly $80.70 $80 a foot, can buy a brand new home that's never been lived in before, that's unheard of, that's absolutely unheard of when you compare it to the average or the median home price across the US today. So it really is kind of the last frontier, and it's typically any market that we're in, if you take the same comparable quality of an apartment complex in the same, you know, area of town, the same school districts, we're typically about 20% less all in cost to actually own your own home, versus that of even renting the comparable size apartment. So it's a very compelling reason for folks that are looking for an affordable place, but not just affordable, but clean, safe and quiet. I mean, like we run very respectable communities, they're in the really good school districts. They're places that folks are proud to live and raise their families, then, Keith Weinhold 10:22 yeah, that's true. This would really help meet that affordability challenge, another problem that's been so well documented. Talk to us more about what makes mobile home park investing different from investing in single family rentals or even a fourplex or a 20 unit apartment building. Kevin Bupp 10:40 A lot of the fundamentals are similar, and I would say that it's probably more comparable to that of an apartment complex to a certain degree. Just think of it as a horizontal apartment complex, where units aren't stacked on top one another. They're just layout horizontally more wider than they are tall. But the bigger difference is in most instances, we don't actually own the homes, so the residents own the mobile homes, whereas we as community owners own the infrastructure, we own the land. We own the roads, when the sewer lines, the water lines, the common areas, if it has a clubhouse, if it has amenities, so we maintain and we own all that collective area where the folks basically come and they bring their home, they fix it to the ground, and then ultimately pay a slot rent to have their home there on that premise. And so for us, it's very attractive in that the resident that's in their home, if they have a Roofing Leak, they have a plumbing leak, they have their HVAC system go out. They're not calling us like they enter an apartment complex. It's on them, yeah. So they're homeowners. And a couple other really attractive elements of that that come as a result of having residents that live there, not just renters, is that they're very sticky. And so just like in a standard single family subdivision, where you've got folks that might have lived there for generations, you just reference that your parents literally live in the same house, and so they've lived there a very long time. It is quite common to find residents and even multi generations of the same family that live in our communities. And a couple come to mind. We just celebrated a woman's 50th year of living one of our communities in brendalin. And so you've got sticky resident base. There's not a lot of turnover. And then the last big piece of it that is really attractive us is a homeowner mentality is very different than a rental mentality as far as upkeep. And so you got folks that they plant flowers, they ensure that their units have curb appeal, right? They put flags out, they put decorations out during the holidays. It's a lot more warmth than that of what you might find in a traditional rental apartment complex. Keith Weinhold 12:26 So what all does the tenant pay for? You mentioned that they pay for the lot rent. What other expenses do they have? How does that look for them? Kevin Bupp 12:36 Typically, you know, utilities. So they'll have their own individual meter. They'll pay, you know, direct to the utility company, utility provider, water and sewer as well. They'll pay for their water and sewer usage. And that can come in many different forms. Sometimes, where our communities have public utilities, where it's built directly by the utility provider, sometimes it's more of a private system, where we're actually acting and participating as utility provider and building them back for their usage. Really the standard things that you might pay for if you live in a single family home. I think so the areas where it might differ. And honestly, this is really community by community for us, some of our communities, literally, the residents, they pay for the utility use, but outside of that, literally, we mow the grass, we shovel their driveway, we shovel their walkways, we handle all those type of elements, whereas some other communities, the residents we might require that they actually maintain their own grass so they their own grass, so they have to mow it, or hire a a third party vendor to come in and mow it. They might have to actually shovel their own driveway. And a lot of how we run a community really is depend on how it used to be run when we took it over. You know, if it's not broke, we don't fix it. And so a lot of times we don't like shaking things up too much. If they're used to a certain way, we just keep it status quo and continue rolling on of how the prior ownership used to manage it really similar elements of what a folks, an individual living in a single family home, might pay for so very similar. Keith Weinhold 13:48 Okay, so they pay you the rent for the lot. This puts nearly all the maintenance and repair burden on them. So is there any sort of HOA like body here? Kevin Bupp 13:58 Not in our community. You do find some communities, and most of these that have an HOA are typically a community that's gone through more of a co op type arrangement to where the actual individuals only like fractionalized share of the community, the residents that live there, and so then they have a the oversight from an HOA that's managing the daily operations, managing the financing, managing the budget, things like that. But in our communities, no, there is not an HOA, I'd say the one other thing that's typically included in lot rent is they don't have property taxes, right? So we own the land, and so the individuals that live in these units aren't paying individual property taxes. A lot of states require that they have a registration fee, just like you do in your vehicle, that they would have to pay on an annual basis. And then most of them have insurance as well. You know they're covering you're carrying homeowners insurance on the actual dwelling itself. Outside of that, it's, again, just pretty straightforward, Keith Weinhold 14:47 yeah. So here we are in this low competition, low supply niche that we're talking about here we think about communities and nimbyism and building, not in my backyard. ISM oftentimes that's a sentiment that residents of a certain area have, residents say something like, ah, we don't want this new 200 unit apartment building or mobile home park here in our single family home neighborhood, like, that's nimbyism. But in mobile home parks, to me, it seemed like nimbyism is often at a different level. It's at the government or the municipal level, like your town or city, might not want one, because it doesn't generate as much property tax revenue as a new single family neighborhood would. Is that the reality? Kevin, Kevin Bupp 15:31 that's absolutely the reality. And that's why you don't see new parks getting built. I think last year, ones that I know of, there are about a dozen that were built, many more than that. They're actually shut down, you know, for redevelopment purposes. And so that is absolutely huge part of it. In fact, you know, it's frustrating, because pretty much every municipality across the country the topic of affordable housing, it's on the radar, and it's probably one that is discussed quite often. And in all reality, again, these mobile home parks really would help resolve that challenge at most of these you know, municipalities are the shortage of homes, affordable homes, that they're facing across the country. And so, you know, another big piece of it, you mentioned the tax basis, absolutely, you know, the municipality would make, they'd have much better tax revenue from pretty much anything else that could be built there. And so that's a big barrier. But the nimbyism piece of it, I think a big part of that is it's unfortunate. I think it's getting better over time. There's bad operators in our space, just like they're bad operators in the apartment space, just like there's bad operators landlords that have single family homes that just let them deteriorate over time and don't repair things. Unfortunately, we kind of get lumped all the mobile home parks get lumped in that bad bucket. And so while there's, you know, I always joke and say there's mobile home parks that are on the wrong side of town, wrong side of the tracks, right? You don't want to go to and during the daytime. Well, guess what? There's subdivision, the single family home, neighborhoods that are the same thing, and there's apartments that are like that as well. You don't go...
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573: The War on the Young and the Vanishing Middle Class
09/29/2025
573: The War on the Young and the Vanishing Middle Class
Imagine a world where your investments work smarter, not harder. Keith reveals the truth about why real estate trumps stocks, and how the current economic landscape is creating a once-in-a-generation wealth opportunity. Discover: -Why traditional investing wisdom is leaving younger generations behind -Why owning assets is the ultimate key to breaking free from economic uncertainty From the dying middle class to the rise of strategic real estate investing, Keith exposes the game-changing insights that most investors never see. -Inflation is reshaping the economic landscape - and you can either ride the wave or get swept away -Generation Z faces unprecedented economic challenges Want to learn more? Your financial transformation starts . Resources: Text FAMILY to 66866 Call 844-877-0888 Visit Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GR, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about real estate versus stocks, how housing has been in a recession that could now be thawing. Then why the war on the young and the vanishing middle class threatens to get even worse today on get rich Education. Keith Weinhold 0:19 You It's crazy that most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money when they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation can eat six to 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments and their flagship program with fixed 10 to 12% returns that have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security. It's backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and healthcare. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there. And here's what's cool. That's just one part of FF eyes family of products. They include workshops and special webinars, educational seminars designed to educate before you invest start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. It's easy to get started. Just grab your phone and text family. 266866, text the word family. 266866, that's family. 266866, Corey Coates 1:37 you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:47 Welcome to GRE from Rocky Mount North Carolina to Mount Shasta, California and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and you are inside for another wealth building week of get rich education. A lot of people have been building wealth lately. Do you even understand all the markets that are either at or near all time highs, real estate, stocks, gold, all recently hit those levels, also nested home equity positions of American property owners are at all time highs. Silver is also near an all time high, and so are FICO credit scores. All this means that the haves are in really good shape, and the have nots aren't more on that later. Let's then you and I talk about real estate versus stocks. I've invested in both for decades, and it's not something that I do on the side. This is the core of what I do and talk about with you every week. And I've never felt more inclined toward investing in real estate ever the resilience of residential real estate, a major reason is that I've always found real estate investing easier to understand than the s and p5 100, and it comes down to the mechanics of each one in The stock market, a company can be well run, it can be profitable, and it can even be growing, yet its stock price might fall anyway. Why? Because expectations weren't met for a quarterly earnings report, or investor sentiment just happened to shift for a while, people just tended to focus on the bad stuff instead of the good stuff, even though it was always there, and that's why the stock price went down. So what makes a stock move more often than not, is kind of laughable. It isn't a word sentiment, emotions. It's how investors collectively feel about a stock and that can change on a dime. One quarter's earnings miss an interest rate hike, geopolitical news or even a single social media comment from a CEO that can move billions of dollars of market value in an instant real estate, on the other hand, that strips away a lot of that noise and that ability for other people's emotions to ruin the price of your apartment building that cannot happen at its core, the value of a property is tied to its income stream and the market that It sits in, that makes it far more direct and way more controllable. If I buy a property, I can see the levers in front of me and ask my property manager to push or pull them or even do it myself. For example, I just asked them to replace flooring in three of my apartment units. With pricier luxury vinyl plank rather than new carpet, and that's because I plan to hold that building for another five years or more. I'll attract a better quality tenant that can afford to pay me more rent. So I know that if I improve operations and increase occupancy, reduce expenses or reposition the asset down the road. I mean, that is directly going to increase net operating income, and that increase will directly affect my valuation. So there's a logic to this that's almost mechanical, and that is not to say that real estate is without nuance or risk. The risk lies in execution. You have to underwrite carefully. Is the location of your property sustainable long term? Are the demographics supportive of Lent growth? What capital improvements are truly lucrative to you and provide the tenants with value, and what kind of improvements are only cosmetic? So real estate isn't just tangible, it's also something that you can interact with. You can walk a property, you can even speak to tenants, study the neighborhood and know exactly what you're dealing with. It's not a ticker symbol reacting to opaque forces that you'll never see or control, and for me, that tactile nature creates clarity. When you buy the right property in the right market with the right strategy, then the path forward is not mysterious. It isn't whimsical, it's deliberate. Real Estate is easier to understand than the S p5, 100. And that also doesn't mean that real estate is simple, because there is that due diligence and strategy, but it's the cause and effect relationship between what you do and the outcome that you get that's far more direct with stocks. You can be completely right about the fundamentals. I mean, you can nail it. You can Bullseye that stock target, and after all that, yet still lose with real estate. If you execute well, the fundamentals eventually do show up in the returns and see because of that direct cause and effect relationship, you can improve yourself as a real estate investor faster than a stock investor can, and that's because you can learn about how your upgrade drove your properties, noi, that information, that feedback that you got, that's something that you can either replicate again or improve upon in your own investor career. So between real estate and stocks, execution is the real differentiator, and control is a key one as well. To me, that sweet spot is control that I have. But through a property manager that way, control doesn't mean that you're losing your quality of life, your standard of living. Now, some people, they do, have the right handyman skills to maintain the property and the right people skills to maintain the tenants. So self managing it can work for just a few people. I sure don't have the handyman skills myself. Sheesh, if I even try to hang a picture on a wall, there's a 50% chance that it's going to end in a drywall patch job. When you can see the cause and effect between your decisions and the property's performance, it creates that level of control that stocks and bonds just don't offer. And I'm also being somewhat kind to stocks by discussing a benchmark like the s, p5, 100, even harder to control and understand are the Wall Street derivatives and financial mutations that the people invested in them don't even understand. Unlike stocks, you own, the levers you own, the operations, the expenses and the occupancy, both have risks, but real estate's risks are more perceptible, more knowable. You won't have to cringe when a company's CEO posts a tweet that's either pro Israel or pro Gaza. Billions of market cap is wiped out, and your investment goes down 12% in one hour. This is why we talk about real estate on the show. There is less speculation and conjecture. It is concrete stuff, and that's all besides how real estate pays you five ways at the same time, as if that wasn't enough. Keith Weinhold 9:38 Now, when we talk about real estate investing in this decade, do you realize that we have been in a housing recession for two years? A recession in real estate? I mean, it might not feel like it with those home prices at erstwhile mentioned all time highs. We don't need to have falling prices to have a recession. Investors are obviously. Making money in this housing recession. The recession I'm talking about is the slowdown in housing activity stemming from less affordability, lower sales volume and less available inventory. But we do now have signs that we are breaking out of these housing doldrums. As far as affordability, national home prices are staying firm. But what's helping there is that mortgage rates have fallen, and we've also had wages that are rising faster than rents and wages that are rising faster than mortgage payments. In fact, wages have been rising faster than both of those for most of the last year now, and that's sourced by Freddie Mac Federal Reserve stats and rental listings on Redfin. Yes, year over year, American wages are up 4.1% rents are up 2.6% and mortgage payments are basically unchanged over the past year, up just two tenths of 1% and of course, these facts, combined with lower mortgage rates, all supports more real estate price growth. Now to kick off the show, I mentioned how real estate stocks and gold all recently hit all time highs. Well, that's denominated in perpetually based dollars, of course. However, one thing that affects you that certainly has not reached all time highs is the level of available homes, the number of homes for sale, that inventory is up off the recent bottom in 2022 yet it is still below pre pandemic levels. We have had quite a recovery here. National active listings definitely on the rise. They are up 21% between today and this time last year. Well, that means that buyers have gained leverage, mostly across the south, where lots of new building has occurred, and some areas of the West as well. Yet today, we are still, overall here 11% below 2019 inventory level. So nationally, we're basically still 11% below pre pandemic housing inventory levels. And in the Midwest and Northeast, the cupboard looks even more bare than that, since new construction totally hasn't kept up there, we will see what happens. But with the recent drop in mortgage rates, buyers might take more of that available inventory off the shelf. But here's the twist that I've heard practically no one else talk about no media source, no one in conversation. Nobody. It is the paucity of available starter homes. It's the entry level home segment that has the great scarcity, and it's these low cost properties that are the ones that make the best rental properties. Their paucity is jaw dropping, as sourced by the Census Bureau and Freddie Mac starter home construction in the US. I mean, it is just fallen precipitously. Are you even aware of the trend? All right, defined as a home of 1400 square feet or less, all right, that's what we're calling a starter home. Their share of new construction that was 40% back in 1982 Yeah, 40% of new built homes were starter homes. Then by the year 2000 it fell to just a 14% share, and today, only 9% of new built homes are starter homes, fewer than one in 10, and yet, that's exactly what America needs more of. So although overall housing inventory is still low, it's that entry level segment that is really chronically underserved, and that won't change anytime soon, we remain mired in a starter home slump because builders find it more profitable to build higher end homes and luxury homes. Yet for anyone that owns this workforce rental property, which is the same thing we've been focused on doing here on this show, from day one, you are sitting in an asset class that's going to remain stubbornly in demand over the long term. And when it comes to starter homes, the ones Investors love most, they are more scarce than bipartisan agreement in Congress, really. That is the takeaway here. Keith Weinhold 14:39 So last week, I had an interesting in person meet up at a coffee shop with a 19 year old college student because he's a real estate enthusiast, rapping Gen Z there. He's an athlete too, an 800 meter runner. Well, his dad read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and his dad has 60 rental properties. Where they're from in Wisconsin, and maybe you're wondering, oh, come on, what could I learn from this 19 year old? I don't think that way. Now, I told him about some foundational GRE principles like financially free, beats debt free and things like that. It was also insightful to get his take on how he sees the world, and for me to learn what his professors are teaching him about real estate investing in his classes, he talked about how his professors show them, for example, what affects apartment cap rates. Also about how, whenever they run the numbers on a property, it always works out better to get the debt, get that mortgage, and how that leverage increases total rates of return. I was really happy that he's learning that over there at the university, but I was really impressed how at age 19, he's responsible and understands so much about society, politics, investing, athletics and even diet. I mean, this guy is rare, talking about his preference for avoiding food cooked in seed oils and choosing beef tallow instead. He also lamented on how Generation Z is so screwed up, saying that no one reads, no one's having kids, no one can buy a home, no one's going to be able to buy a home, and that people his age are so used to looking at screens that they're anxious about in person interactions, even in person, food ordering from a waiter at a restaurant gives them anxiety. He and I are planning to go running together next week. We'll see how that goes. As a college 800 meter runner, he's going to have the speed advantage on me, but we're running up a steep, 40 minute long trail where I've got a shot at an endurance advantage. So it was rather interesting to get his take and see what college professors are teaching on real estate. I mean, this generation that's coming of age now, Gen Z is the worst generation since George Washington to have it worse off than their parents. I'm going to talk about that today, shortly. next week, on the show here, I plan to help you learn about what's going on with some real estate niches and what their future looks to be over the next 10 to 20 years, including mobile home park real estate and parking lot real estate, one of these asset classes I really don't like the future of That's all next week on the future of some certain real estate niches. Straight ahead today, I want to tell you about mortgage rates in a way that you've never thought about before and more about the war on the young and the vanishing middle class. I'm Keith Weinhold. There will only ever be one. Get rich education podcast episode 573, and you are listening to it. Keith Weinhold 17:53 If you're scrolling for quality real estate and finance info today, yeah, it can be a mess. You hit paywalls, pop ups, push alerts, Cookie banners. It's like the internet is playing defense against you. Not so fun. That's why it matters to get clean, free content that actually adds no hype value to your life. This is the golden age of quality email newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor. It's direct, and it gets to the point, because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter takes less than three minutes to read, and it leaves you feeling sharp. And in the know about real estate investing, this is paradigm shifting material, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video course, completely free as well. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be simpler to get visit gre letter.com while it's fresh in your head, take a moment to do it now at gre letter.com Visit gre letter.com Keith Weinhold 19:06 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Chale Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com Todd Drowlette 19:38 this is the star of the A E show the real estate commission, I'd roll that. Listen to get rich education with my friend Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Speaker 1 19:49 Welcome back to. Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, as a reminder that show the real estate commission starring our friend Todd Drolet, who is a guest on the show here with us at the beginning of this month, it starts October 10, on A and E, that's that reality based commercial real estate show. Late last year, the Fed lowered interest rates, and they're doing the same thing again this year, when interest rates rise and fall, think of it like a wall that's being raised and lowered. Cutting rates is like lowering the height of a wall or a dam. That's because it allows for the free flow of capital. Savings rate accounts. Well, since they'll now pay at a lower rate with this rate cut, they're more likely to get shifted out and invested somewhere and flow into something else, driving up that other asset's value. Mortgages are more likely to originate because you pay less interest. Lowering rates lowers the impediment to the flow of money. It eases that flow. Oppositely, raising rates is like increasing the height of a wall or a dam, because if your savings account rate goes from 4% up to 5% oh well, you more likely to keep it parked there a higher wall or dam around your money, and raising rates makes your mortgage costs higher, so you're more likely to stay put and not move money around, constrained by the higher wall, that's how interest rates are like walls and lower walls also increase inflation, since they increase The flow of money, and hence the demand for goods and services. Well, then why did the Fed cut rates, lowering the wall opening the door for inflation this last time? Well, I think you know that was due to the evidence of a sputtering job market. You know that, if you follow this stuff, a slowing job market slows the...
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572: Landlording vs. Professional Management, How to Increase Your Income as a Real Estate Lender
09/22/2025
572: Landlording vs. Professional Management, How to Increase Your Income as a Real Estate Lender
Keith discusses the pros and cons of being a hands-on landlord versus hiring a property manager. Self-management offers cost savings, quality control, and better tenant relationships but can be challenging due to tenant and contractor management. Keep up with inflation and market trends, by using tools like Rent Finder.ai for market analysis. Dani-Lynn Robison with Freedom Family Investments joins the conversation to highlight their recession-resilient real estate funds offering 8-16% returns, with options for liquidity and growth. Resources: Text FAMILY to 66866 Call 844-877-0888 Visit Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, being a hands on landlord versus professional property management. Which one is right for you? How often and how much should you raise the rent? Then learn how, rather than a landlord, to be a landlord and increase your income by becoming a real estate lender. Today on get rich education, Speaker 1 0:28 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:13 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Speaker 2 1:30 Welcome to GRE from Charleston, South Carolina to Charleston, West Virginia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education before we talk about, should you be your own landlord or not, and how often do you raise the rent? Let's get more personal. I want to get introspective with you with three questions, do you focus more on what you have or on what's missing? Yeah, and not just as an investor, but in your overall life. Do you focus more on what you have or on what's missing? As for me, it's what's missing, and that might be a shame. I'm definitely grateful for what I have, but probably not grateful enough if you also focus more on what's missing from your life rather than what you have. Maybe you need to be more grateful for what you've got too. But those like me that focus more on what's missing are often accomplishment driven people always trying striving for more. The second question is, do you focus more on your past, present or future. Now we all focus on all three, but which one do you focus on the most? For me, it's the present and then the future after that. The third question that you can ask yourself to learn more about yourself is, do you focus more on what's in your control or out of your control, I focus more on what's in my control. So there you go. Certain combinations of those questions can tell you a lot about yourself. For example, if you answered that, you're most focused on your future and what's out of your control, you could be setting yourself up for some sleepless nights. Oh, gosh, did I lock the car door or really, it's more like, Geez, how is that meeting really going to go tomorrow? I do some of that too fretting too much about the future for things outside your control that won't change your future one bit, but yet, ostensibly, that steals your peace of mind in the present. And I don't know who to attribute those questions to. Who originated them, but I heard Tony Robbins talking about them, and that helps you figure yourself out for some of what we're talking about here on today's show. I want to start off real basically here most first time real estate investors, they find themselves diving into the world of property management with zero experience and tons of uncertainty. You don't have to put management experience on a resume before you hire yourself to manage your own property. Self managing a rental property, it can be daunting in the beginning, but it also offers you some real benefits, like greater control and cost savings and some hands on learning. But self management comes with its own set of challenges, like tenant management and handling maintenance issues, so let's weigh some of those pros and cons of self landlording versus outsourcing it to a professional manager, there are about four key advantages to self managing. I think that most obvious one is the cost savings, because property management companies typically charge eight to 10% of the monthly. Rent amount for their services, along with an additional fee for placing a tenant or renewing a lease, and maybe even a fee for certain maintenance types. By self managing, you can then avoid these fees and keep more of the rental income for yourself and thereby making your investment more profitable. Say that your property is rented for $2,000 a month. That $200 management fee, because that's 10% Well, multiply that by 12, that's $2,400, a year, plus a typical leasing fee when a new tenant is placed is a half months rent. That's $1,000 in this case, now, you're probably not going to have a new tenant placed every single year, but if you did, then that's $3,400 annually to the manager in total, between the management fee and the leasing fee. Another advantage of DIY ing is quality control. Now, I think people that tend to be control freaks, oftentimes have to self manage, and they care a little too much. But when you self manage, you do have direct control over the maintenance and tenant selection and the overall condition of your property, and that is going to ensure that your investment is well maintained and that your tenants are satisfied. Property managers, they often manage multiple properties, so your rental might not get as much attention. And the most common, recurring issue that I hear from investors that use a professional management company is that they don't feel like their property is getting enough attention, or that the property manager doesn't really care that much about them after their contract is signed. And if you think that through, from the property management industry side, you know most managers, they're only making that 100 to 200 bucks of recurring revenue per month on each property they manage, and these are pretty thin margins overall. So in order to run a profitable business and pay their employees and cover their other business expenses, these property managers, they need to onboard hundreds of clients, and in turn, that's going to spread out their efforts pretty thin if you've only got a few properties with a manager. Well, their main priority sometimes ends up being their bigger clients. So the smaller you are, the further down the callback list you might be. But I'll tell you, even staying in touch with my professional managers a little bit, even the ones I only have a few properties with, I feel like I get what I need. A third advantage to managing yourself is better tenant relationships. You've got a level of control that allows you to build relationships with your residents that can lead to longer retention and less of that costly turnover, and having that direct communication that builds some trust, that builds some respect between you and your tenant, they appreciate a landlord like you is probably going to respond quickly to maintenance requests and the fact that you're approachable if an issue comes up, and also, by you being more involved in the tenant screening process, you can ensure that you select a pretty good tenant that's going to stay Long Term and really take care of your property. Another advantage to you self managing is that you do build some valuable skills. I mean, managing a property on your own that teaches you a big range of pretty versatile skills, from like handling maintenance and repairs to negotiating leases and just overall, managing your finances, these can be pretty helpful skills, not just for your rentals, but for your future business ventures. So really, those are some of the upsides of self management. Now, how about the flip side, the challenges of self managing your own rental property? Well, the problem is managing your tenants. I mean, some say that this whole discipline that's called Property Management ought to be called tenant management and handling tenant relations. That's one of the most critical aspects of being a self managing landlord. I mean, even if you try to build tenant relationships, mismanagement that can lead to vacancies or disputes or can even go into legal issues. So educating yourself on landlord tenant laws and best practices, that's pretty essential. If you want to head off problems, you've got proper tenant screening and addressing tenant concerns and ensuring that rent is paid on time. I mean, all that stuff's crucial. Most tenants are pretty reasonable, but you know, there are always going to be a few that will challenge your patients, and it really requires that you be tactful and professional to manage well, managing contractors. I mean, property maintenance, that's another key responsibility you have to. Fine and hire and coordinate contractors for repairs and upkeep and poor contractor management that could lead to cost overruns or really shoddy work and more, knowing how to negotiate contracts and oversee projects that's crucial to maintaining the tenant satisfaction and the overall quality of your property. Another downside of self management is handling emergencies, I mean plumbing leaks or electrical issues, that stuff could happen anytime. And as a self managing landlord, you might not always be available to respond immediately, which can lead to property damage or unhappy tenants. So self managers, they really need to be problem solvers. Self managing a rental property, things go fine 99 plus percent of the time, but it could get emotionally taxing, especially if those tenant relations become a problem. So you got to keep personal feelings out of it, that stuff can cloud your judgment and negatively impact your decisions. If you want to self manage, you've got to maintain professionalism and set clear boundaries and remain objective when you're dealing with tenants and property issues, so creating systems and processes help you minimize those emotionally driven decisions, and can help you ensure consistency in managing approach. And then there is that legal side you ought to keep up on that local area's landlord and tenant law. So in conclusion, on whether to be your own landlord or outsource it to professional management, while these challenges are pretty real, you should still be able to self manage your properties, even remotely, even across state lines or from 1000s of miles away. I mean, most of these worst case scenarios that you hear about, like a flood at 2am I mean that stuff just never happens. I mean, it's never happened to me, even if you don't have previous experience, you really can effectively manage your rental properties and see positive results when you got the right tools and the right mindset. And today's tech tools make remote management easier than it's ever been in human history. But any long time listener knows that I do not manage my own properties. My time is simply too valuable. As a frequent guest on the show here, Robert helm says life is too short for property management, I just feel a personal sense of freedom and autonomy and some headspace clearance by knowing that no tenant can contact me directly yet that my manager is taking care of them. I mean, it's just not worth doing it myself to get that last 2% toward perfection. When you buy in the most investor advantage areas, you should have enough margin to pay for a manager. Keith Weinhold 13:03 All right, well, let's change topics now, and whether you self manage or you outsource it to a pro, you know, you've got to ask, how much and how often should landlords raise the rent? That is the question. Let's say you've crunched the numbers and expenses are climbing like they have these past few years, and the market is shifting and your rent hasn't changed. That really leaves you with one big question, Should you raise the rent? And should you raise it every year? And if you're new to landlording, it can kind of feel complicated. It could feel like if you raise the rent too much, you risk losing a great tenant if you raise it too little or not at all, and you might fall behind on costs then, or even undervalue your property if you don't keep your rents up there, because five plus unit property values are based on the rent, which goes into the NOI your net operating income. And really, this is one of the more common dilemmas that landlords face. But really, the good news is that there's a pretty clear way forward. So let me help you determine when a rent increase makes sense, and then figure out an amount that keeps your unit competitive. It keeps your rental income on track. Now some people, they actually believe that landlords are required to raise the rent every year and to a tenant, it might seem like that's what happens, but no, landlords are not required to raise the rent every year. They often choose to do so to keep up with inflation or stay competitive and high demand markets, and keep up with shifts in local rental trends, gradual, smaller increases can help you avoid the need for making larger jumps later, that stuff can surprise or frustrate your tenant. You want to go for those big rent jumps, but two. 19 tenancies. We've covered that part before. Now, some landlords prefer to keep rent steady, like when they have long term reliable tenants, or they're just focused on building equity over time, and they want to stay hands off, and don't really need the cash flow so much. Now, in a lot of cases, maintaining that same rent amount that sure can reduce your turnover in vacancy costs, those things are your biggest expenses, but often that is not the best approach in the long run, because you probably are a leveraged investor, meaning that you have a loan on the property. Well, then a rent increase that helps you out more than it does for the less educated, paid off free and clear property owner, because you can widen your delta faster. You widen your cash flow faster because your biggest expense, your principal and interest payment, stays fixed. Yes, you are getting leverage on both the asset value overall and the income. Yes, this is winning that third crown of GRE s inflation triple crown. So ultimately deciding how often to raise the rent, that really depends somewhat on your goals and also the condition of the rental. You got to factor in how satisfied you think that your tenant is. That's part of it, and the state of the market as well. Now, if you're unsure what the right rent price is for your area, there are increasingly sophisticated tools for helping you figure that out. Rent finder.ai, can help you. One of my property managers uses it. It's a really cool AI driven report that looks at 25 rent comparables in the area. Again, that tool is rent finder.ai. Speaker 2 16:52 Now, when should landlords raise rent? Finding the right time to do this that helps you stay aligned with the market value all while supporting your financial goals. But there are also times where it might be smarter to hold off on hiking the rent. The most common times that you implement a rent increase are at least renewal. That's really the most common and appropriate time to raise the rent, provided that you give proper notice. You usually got to give 30 to 60 days notice. Another common time to raise the rent are after you make significant upgrades, like installing new appliances or renovating a kitchen or updating flooring. I mean, this is when it might be reasonable to adjust rent to reflect that added value. Another time is when overall market rents are rising, even if you haven't improved the unit or anything, because if rental prices in your area are up, well, then raising your rent helps keep your property in line with local rates. But you got to keep in mind that rent price increases require a well thought out strategy to avoid pushing away good tenants. Another time to increase the rent is to keep up with inflation and expenses over time, especially these last few years, we've all had higher operational costs like higher insurance, higher property taxes, higher maintenance costs. So even a small annual rent increase definitely helps offset those rising expenses, but you have got to avoid basing your rent price solely on operating expenses. When you do raise the rent for this reason, though, let the tenant know just which operating expense rose. That is going to help reduce tenant frustration. Now, on the flip side, there are times when keeping your rent steady could be the better choice, especially if you have a long term reliable tenant. I mean good tenants that pay on time and take care of the property. They are worth retaining, not all times, but sometimes avoiding that rent hike can help you maintain a good relationship. There another time to avoid it is when the rental market is soft. I mean, if there's more competition in your area, or high vacancy rates in your area, well then raising the rent could lead a tenant to look somewhere else, especially if there are vacant properties nearby that they could move into. Another time to not raise the rent is if the property hasn't changed, if you haven't made any of those improvements, sometimes a rent increase might not be justified, or obviously you don't want to raise the rent if you really, really want to avoid a vacancy. So keeping the rent the same might encourage them to renew. So factors to consider before raising the rent and how to calculate an appropriate increase if a unit is aging or needs repairs, raising the rent without improvement that could discourage renewals. So consider creating a value checklist to quantify certain improvements, like new apps. Appliances could be 25 to $50 a month in additional rent, or a renovated kitchen, $75 a month or new HVAC. That could be 30 to $50 a month. Think about neighborhood changes like gentrification or new schools or increased transportation access or nearby commercial development. I mean, all that stuff can raise demand, building a Whole Foods nearby, having a new office space with high wages nearby, that can increase your rent. Look at City Planning announcements and local news. You can help stay ahead of the trends that way, and if your neighborhood has seen a rise in new businesses or housing demand. I mean, that is justification for a moderate increase and a modest annual rent increase tied to inflation that can help offset...
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571: Trump's Takeover of the Fed Will Unleash a Wealth Bonanza and a Dollar Crash with Richard Duncan
09/15/2025
571: Trump's Takeover of the Fed Will Unleash a Wealth Bonanza and a Dollar Crash with Richard Duncan
Keith discusses the potential takeover of the Federal Reserve by President Trump, highlighting the macroeconomic implications. Economist, author and publisher of Macro Watch, Richard Duncan, joins the show and explains that central bank independence is crucial to prevent political influence on monetary policy, which could lead to excessive money supply and inflation. Trump's policies, including tariffs and spending bills, are inflationary, necessitating lower interest rates. Resources: Subscribe to Macro Watch at and use promo code GRE for a 50% discount. Gain access to over 100 hours of macroeconomic video archives and new biweekly insights into the global economy. Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the President has a plan to completely take over the Fed, a body that historically stays independent of outside influence. Learn the fascinating architecture of the planned fed seizure and how it's expected to unleash a wealth Bonanza and $1 crash with a brilliant macroeconomist today, it'll shape inflation in interest rates in the future world that you'll live in today. On get rich education. Speaker 1 0:33 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:21 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Speaker 1 1:31 Welcome to GRE from Fairfax, Virginia to Fairfield, California, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education. The Federal Open Market Committee is the most powerful financial institution, not only in the nation, but in the entire world, and when an outside force wants to wrestle it and take it down. The change that it could unleash is almost incredible. It's unprecedented. The President wants full control. Once he has it, he could then slash interest rates, order unlimited money creation, and even peg government bond yields wherever he wishes, and this could drive wealth to extraordinary new highs, but this also carries enormous risks for the dollar and inflation and overall financial stability. And I mean, come on now, whether you like him or not, is Trump more enamored of power than Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars or what this is fascinating. Today's guest is going to describe the architecture of the takeover the grand plan. Our guest is a proven expert on seeing what will happen next in macroeconomics. He's rather pioneering in AI as well. But today, this all has so much to do with the future of inflation and interest rates. We're going to get into the details of how, step by step, Trump plans to infiltrate and make a Fed takeover. Keith Weinhold 3:23 I'd like to welcome back one of the more recurrent guests in GRE history, because he's one of the world's most prominent macroeconomists, and he was this show's first ever guest back in 2014 he's worked with the World Bank and as a consultant to the IMF. He's contributed a lot on CNBC, CNN and Bloomberg Television. He's a prolific author. His books have been taught at Harvard and Columbia, and more recently, he's been a guest speaker at a White House Ways and Means Committee policy dinner in DC. So people at the highest levels lean on his macroeconomic expertise. Hey, welcome back to GRE joining us from Thailand as usual. It's Richard Duncan Richard Duncan 4:03 Keith, thank you for that very nice introduction. It's great to see you again. Keith Weinhold 4:08 Oh, it's so good to have you back. Because you know what, Richard, what caught my attention and why I invited you back to the show earlier than usual is about something that you published on macro watch, and it's titled, Trump's conquest of the Fed will unleash a wealth Bonanza, $1 crash and state directed capitalism. I kind of think of state directed and capitalism as two different things, so there's a few bits to unpack here, and maybe the best way is to start with the importance of the separation of powers. Tell us why the Fed needs to maintain independence from any influence of the president. Richard Duncan 4:44 Central banks have gained independence over the years because it was realized that if they didn't have independence, then they would do whatever the president or prime minister told them to do to help him get reelected, and that would tend to lead to excessive money supply. Growth and interest rates that were far too low for the economic environment, and that would create an economic boom that would help that President or politician get reelected, but then ultimately in a bust and a systemic financial sector crisis. So it's generally believed that central bank independence is much better for the economy than political control of the central bank. Speaker 1 5:24 Otherwise we would just fall into a president's short term interests. Every president would want rates essentially at zero, and maybe this wouldn't catch up with people until the next person's in office. Richard Duncan 5:35 That's right. He sort of wants to be Fed Chair Trump. That's right, president and Fed Chairman Trump on the horizon. It looks like won't be long, Now. Speaker 1 5:45 that's right. In fact, even on last week's episode, I was talking about how Trump wants inflation, he won't come out and explicitly say that, of course, but when you look at the majority of his policies, they're inflationary. I mean, you've got tariffs, you've got deportations, this reshaping of the Fed that we're talking about the hundreds of billions of dollars in spending in the one big, beautiful Bill act. It is overwhelmingly inflationary. Richard Duncan 6:12 It is inflationary. And he may want many of those things that you just mentioned, but what he doesn't want is what goes along with high rates of inflation, and that is high interest rates, right? If interest rates go up in line with inflation, as they normally do in a left to market forces, then we would have significantly higher rates of inflation. There would also be significantly higher rates of interest on the 10 year government bond yield, for instance. And that is what he does not want, because that would be extremely harmful for the economy and for asset prices, and that's why taking over the Federal Reserve is so important for him, his policies are going to be inflationary. That would tend to cause market determined interest rates to go higher, and in fact, that would also persuade the Fed that they needed to increase the short term interest rates, the federal funds rate, if we start to see a significant pickup in inflation, then, rather than cutting rates going forward, then they're more likely to start increasing the federal funds rate. And the bond investors are not going to buy 10 year government bonds at a yield of 4% if the inflation rate is 5% they're going to demand something more like a yield of 7% so that's why it's so urgent for the President Trump to take over the Fed. That's what he's in the process of doing. Once he takes over the Fed, then he can demand that they slash the federal funds rate to whatever level he desires. And even if the 10 year bond yield does begin to spike up as inflation starts to rise, then the President can instruct, can command the Fed to launch a new round of quantitative easing and buy up as many 10 year government bonds as necessary, to push up their price and to drive down their yields to very low levels, even if there is high rate of inflation. Keith Weinhold 7:58 a president's pressure to Lower short term rates, which is what the Fed controls, could increase long term rates like you're saying, it could backfire on Trump because of more inflation expectations in the bond market. Richard Duncan 8:12 That's right. President Trump is on record as saying he thinks that the federal funds rate is currently 4.33% he said it's 300 basis points too high. Adjusting would be 1.33% if they slash the short term interest rates like that. That would be certain to set off a very strong economic boom in the US, which would also be very certain to create very high rates of inflation, particularly since we have millions of people being deported and a labor shortage at the moment, and the unemployment rate's already very low at just 4.2% so yes, slashing short term interest rates that radically the federal funds rate that radically would be certain to drive up the 10 year government bond yield. That's why President Trump needs to gain control over the Fed so that he can make the Fed launch a new round of quantitative easing. If you create a couple of trillion dollars and start buying a couple of trillion dollars of government bonds, guess what? Their price goes up. And when the price of a bond goes up, the yield on that bond goes down, and that drives down what typically are considered market determined interest rates, but in this case, they would be fed determined interest rates Trump determined interest rates. Speaker 1 9:28 Inflationary, inflationary, inflationary, and whenever we see massive cuts to the Fed funds rate that typically correlates with a big loss in quality of life, standard of living, and items of big concern. If we look at the last three times that rates have been cut substantially, they have been for the reasons of getting us out of the two thousand.com bubble, then getting us out of the 2000 day global financial crisis, then getting us out of covid in 2020, I mean, massive rate cuts are. Are typically a crisis response Richard Duncan 10:02 yes, but if we look back, starting in the early 1980s interest rates have have trended down decade after decade right up until the time covid hit. In fact, the inflation rate was below the Fed's 2% inflation target most of the time between 2008 the crisis of 2008 and when covid started, the Fed was more worried about deflation than inflation during those years, and the inflation rate trended down. And so the interest rates tended to trend down as well, and we're at quite low levels. Of course, back in the early 1980s we had double digit inflation and double digit interest rates, but gradually, because of globalization, allowing the United States to buy more and more goods from other countries with ultra low wages, like China and now Vietnam and India and Bangladesh, buying goods from other countries with low wages that drove down the price of goods in the United States, causing goods disinflation, and that drove down the interest rates. That drove down the inflation rate. And because the inflation rate fell, then interest rates could fall also, and that's why the interest rates were trending down for so long, up until the time covid hit, and why they would have trended down again in the absence of this new tariff regime that President Trump has put into place. Now, this is creating a completely different economic environment. President Trump truly is trying to radically restructure the US economy. There is a plan for this. The plan was spelled out in a paper by the man who is now the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors. His name is Steven Moran, and the paper was called a user's guide to restructuring the global trading system. It was published in November last year, and it very clearly spelled out almost everything President Trump has done since then in terms of economic policy. It was truly a blueprint for what he has done since then, and this paper spelled out a three step plan with two objectives. Here are the three steps. Step one was to impose very high tariffs on all of the United States trading partners. Step two was then to threaten all of our allies that we would no longer protect them militarily if they dared to retaliate against our high tariffs. And then the third step was to convene a Mar a Lago accord at which these terrified trading partners would agree to a sharp devaluation of the dollar and would also agree to put up their own trade tariffs against China in order to isolate China. And the two objectives of this policy, they were to re industrialize the United States and to stop China's economic growth so that China would be less of a military threat to the United States, which it is currently and increasingly with each passing month. So so far, steps one and two have been carried out very high tariffs on every trading partner, and also threats that if there's any retaliation, that we won't protect you militarily any longer. And also pressure on other countries to put high tariffs against China. The idea is to isolate China between behind a global tariff wall and to stop China's economic growth. So you can see that is what President Trump has been doing. And also in this paper, Stephen Marin also suggested that it would be very helpful if the Fed would cooperate to hold down 10 year government bond yield in this environment, which would naturally tend to push the bond yields higher. So that paper really did spell out what President Trump has done since then. Keith Weinhold 13:59 This is fascinating about this paper. I didn't know about this previously, so this is all planned from tariffs to a Fed takeover. Richard Duncan 14:08 That's right, the idea is to re industrialize the United States. That's what President Trump has been saying for years. Make America Great Again. And it's certainly true that America does need to have the industrial capacity to make steel and ships and pharmaceutical products and many other things in his own national self defense. But there's a problem with this strategy since the breakdown of the Bretton Woods system, and we've talked about this before, so I will do this fast forwarding a bit when the Bretton Woods system broke down up until then it broke down in 1971 before then, trade between countries had to balance. So it wasn't possible for the United States to buy extraordinarily large amounts of goods from low wage countries back then, this thing that's caused the disinflation over the last four decades, trade had to balance because on the Bretton Woods system, if we had a big trade deficit. Deficit, we had to pay for that deficit with gold. US gold, and gold was money. So if we had a big trade deficit and had to pay out all of our gold other countries to finance that deficit, we would run out of gold. Run out of money. The economy would hit a crisis, and that just couldn't continue. We'd stop buying things from other countries. So there was an automatic adjustment mechanism under the Bretton Woods System, or under the classical gold standard itself that prevented trade deficits. But once Bretton Woods broke down in 1971 It didn't take us too long to figure out that it could buy extraordinarily large amounts of things from other countries, and it didn't have to pay with gold anymore. It could just pay with US dollars, or more technically, with Treasury bonds denominated in US dollars. So the US started running massive trade deficits. The deficits went from zero to $800 billion in 2006 and now most recently, the current account deficit was $1.2 trillion last year. So the total US current account deficit since the early 1980s has been $17 trillion this has created a global economic boom of unprecedented proportions and pulled hundreds of millions of people around the world out of poverty. China is a superpower now, because of its massive trade surplus with the US, completely transformed China. So the trade surplus countries in Asia all benefited. I've watched that firsthand, since I've spent most of my career living in Asia, but the United States also benefited, because by buying things from low wage countries that drove down the price of goods, that drove down inflation, that made low interest rates possible, that made it easier for the US to finance its big budget deficits at low interest rates, and so with Low interest rates, the government could spend more and stimulate the economy. Also with very low interest rates, stock prices could go higher and home prices could go higher. This created a very big economic boom in the United States as well. Not only did the trade surplus, countries benefit by selling more to the US, but the US itself benefited by this big wealth boom that has resulted from this arrangement. Now the problem with President Trump's plan to restructure the US economy is that he wants to bring this trade deficit back down essentially to zero, ideally, it seems. But if he does that, then that's going to cut off the source of credit that's been blowing this bubble ever larger year after year since the early 1980s and we have such a big global credit bubble that if this source of credit has been making the bubble inflate, the trade deficit, if that were to significantly become significantly lower, then this credit that's been blowing up, the bubble would stop, and the bubble would implode, potentially creating very severe, systemic financial sector crisis around the world on a much, probably a much larger scale than we saw in 2008 and leading to a new Great Depression. One thing to think about is the trade deficit is similar to the current account deficit. So the current account deficit is the mirror image of capital inflows into the United States. Every country's balance of payments has to balance. So last year, the US current account deficit was $1.2 trillion that threw off $1.2 trillion into the global economy benefiting the trade surplus countries. But those countries received dollars, and once they had that 1.2 trillion new dollars last year, they had to invest those dollars back into us, dollar denominated assets of one kind or another, like government bonds or like US stocks, and that's what they did. The current account deficit is the mirror image of capital inflows into the United States. Last year was $1.2 trillion of capital inflows. Now if you eliminate the current account deficit by having very high trade tariffs and bringing trade back into balance, you also eliminate the capital inflows into the United States, and if we have $1.2 trillion less money coming into the United States a year or two from now, that's going to make it much more difficult to finance...
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570: Forget Population Growth—This is What Really Drives Rents
09/08/2025
570: Forget Population Growth—This is What Really Drives Rents
Keith discusses the factors driving rent growth, emphasizing income growth, supply constraints, and affordability. He highlights that population growth has a weak correlation with rent growth, citing examples like Austin and San Francisco. The fastest rent growth is in San Francisco (4.6%), Fresno (4.6%), and Chicago (4%), while Austin (-6.8%), Denver (-5%), and Phoenix (-4.1%) show declines. GRE Coach, Naresh Vissa, joins the conversation to talk about the administration's focus on lowering rates and the potential for higher inflation as a result. He encourages investors to stay informed and take advantage of opportunities when rates are low. Resources: Book a free coaching session with Naresh at Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, vital trends are moving the rental real estate market. And learn what really drives rent growth. It's probably not what you think. Then inflate, baby. Inflate. Why this administration wants inflation today on get rich education. Speaker 1 0:22 Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Corey Coates 1:08 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:18 You Keith, welcome to GRE from Whippany New Jersey to Parsippany New Jersey. Not much distance there and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to this week's episode of Get rich education, where it's not just about your ROI. It's about your roti, your return on time invested, and your return on life. Everyone says that population growth is what drives rents, yes, but that's just one part of it, and it probably isn't even the most important factor. There is evidence of this, from Harvard research to what HUD has found. Austin, Texas recently added 500,000 people, rents spiked, and then supply flooded in and rents stalled. Head count wasn't enough. I discussed that in depth when I walked the streets of Austin last year. San Francisco lost population, but yet rents rebounded and remain among the highest in the nation. Harvard's housing research shows that population growth only has a weak correlation with rent growth. So what actually does drive rents? Well, income growth, supply constraints, and then staying under the 30% affordability ceiling, which is HUD's definition of what a cost burdened household is, right? That means that a tenant spends more than 30% of their income on rent. That is cost burden, and this pattern holds from ancient Rome to modern Manhattan, rents follow paychecks, not head counts and on the supply side, well, not all metros are created equal. Some have quantified it with what's called a supply elasticity score, places like Houston can seemingly build endlessly, while Manhattan and San Francisco cannot. So it's that difference that explains why incomes turn into rent growth in one market but not in the other. So if you're chasing fast growing metros, okay, but be careful, because headcount does not equal pricing power. Paychecks are what do well today, rents are falling in boom towns, but they're climbing in what we would call legacy, established metros, the year over year, rent change across US, metro areas really has a striking contrast. The three with the fastest rent growth are San Francisco up 4.6% Fresno also up 4.6% and Chicago up 4% and the three biggest declines in rent are Austin down 6.8% Denver down 5% and Phoenix Down 4.1% rent contraction in those three cities. And here's the problem during that 2020, to 2022, real estate surge. Years ago, investors piled into Sun Belt markets, and they sort of expected this endless growth, but then new supply flooded Austin, Phoenix and Denver, pushing rents down and vacancies up, and all three of those are cities that I visited during the boom and I saw the. Cranes in the air myself, and yet, at the same time, older supply constrained metros, like in the northeast, in Chicago and in San Francisco, they are quietly regaining momentum. That's where demand is steady. Construction is limited, and that's why rents are ticking higher. So this is why, like I've talked about before, it's good for you to invest in some Sunbelt areas, say, like Florida and then others that have this steady demand, like, say, a place in Ohio. And it's worth pointing out, too, how unusual it is that a city like Austin has a 6.8% rent contraction. We all know that housing prices are more stable than stocks, sure, but real estate rents are even more stable than housing prices, so this rent aberration that was caused by such wild overbuilding in Austin. Now, I recently attended a presentation on the rental housing market. It was put together by John Burns. He's the one that presented it, and he's the owner of the eponymous John Burns research and consulting. And people pay good money to attend these presentations, and he's a guy worth listening to, always with good housing market insights, and some of his insights while they're the same ones I've shared with you for a while, like how there's been a persistent lack of housing supply in the Northeast and Midwest, and still an abundant supply in the south. The Northeast is the only region of the nation that's adding more jobs than new homes at this time, the top amenities that tenants want today are a driveway in a yard. Pretty simple things. They're not a pool in a clubhouse. They're a driveway in a yard. And if you think about them, it totally makes sense, and that's why single family rentals have become such a booming industry, because that's where tenants are getting a driveway and a yard and burns. Also pointed out that most US job growth is in low income jobs. The presentation talked mostly in terms of headwinds versus tailwinds. Lower immigration. Well, that's a headwind. That's a bad thing for real estate investing, since immigrants tend to be renters. The tailwinds The good thing that includes less future supply coming out of the market, fewer apartments and fewer build to rent, deliveries coming online, fewer being added between today and 2028 and another positive for the next two decades at least, is the fact that since people are having fewer kids, that makes people less likely to settle down, buy a home and need a good school district. Well, that is good for people renting longer, longer tenancy durations, and John Burns also spotlighted how building material cost inflation is up 40% from pre pandemic times fully 40% more in material costs. But that Spike has since flattened out. However, it is just another reason why home prices can't really fall substantially. Today's prices are baked in, and his summary overall is to be bullish and bet on the tailwinds those real estate investing positives that is mostly due to future rent growth because the new supply is going away, and it's going to continue to stay difficult to buy a home, more rent growth, and that's the end of what he had to say. So as you're out there, targeting the right areas and renters for your properties, I've talked before about how new build rental property is a sweet spot, since your builder will often buy down your mortgage rate. For you, new build is where you can attract a good quality tenant. Look for a moment, just forget finding a tenant that can just barely afford your unit because they're spending 30 to 33% of their income to pay you rent, because, see, in that condition, there's no room for you to get a rent increase. If you can offer great value to your residents and target a 10 to 15% rent to income ratio, aha, you are really in good shape, because the easiest rent growth is retaining happy residents that are conditioned to accept 5% rent increases. Well, that is more likely in a nice new build property. That's where you attract a better tenant. And if they were to move out, they would have to take a lesser property so they will stay and pay the rent in. Increase, and they're going to have the capacity to do so when the rent is only 10 to 20% of their income. Keith Weinhold 5:25 Now, when we talk about a major factor that trickles down to rents, the level of inflation, a lot of this comes down to the Fed chair and even the president, to some extent. And you know what's interesting, half the nation bashes whoever is president, and the entire nation bashes whoever is the Fed chair. Look, every recent Fed Chair has been maligned and bashed more than a pinata at a toddler's birthday party, bashed open more than an umpire at a little league game. Well, since 1980 there have been five of them, Volker, then Greenspan, then Bernanke, then Yellen and now Jerome Powell, most of that group is known for substantially lowering interest rates, yet they've remained unpopular anyway. And you know the irony here? The most popular of these five is Paul Volcker. He's the only Fed chair that's celebrated, and yet he jacked rates in the 1980s to up near 20% yes, 20% he really made borrowers feel the pain, but yet he's the only guy that's celebrated, because that's how he stomped that out of control inflation fire, 45 years ago, in 1981 mortgage rates peaked between 18 and 19% yet Somehow he's the Fed share that we celebrate? Well, here in more modern times, will the Fed eventually have to do the same thing? This is because Trump wants inflation now. The short term, talk is about lowering interest rates, but there are so many inflationary forces that you've got to wonder about how interest rates could very well go much higher later to get on top of this inflation that I'm telling you Trump actually wants. Now, of course, no one is going to come out and explicitly say that they want inflation, but that is now so implied, there are a ton of policies that the administration favors that are super inflationary. Some are a little deflationary, like deregulation, but they are overwhelmingly inflationary. Look tariffs, that's inflation on goods, mass deportations, that's labor inflation, reshaping the Fed in order to lower rates. That's inflation, the one big, beautiful bill, act that's lots of spending and largely inflationary. I'm telling you, Trump wants inflation now I'm not here to evaluate these policies for being good or bad. This is about policies, not politics, and understand it's not just the US government. It's every government everywhere that secretly wants inflation. And why do they want that? Well, first, it fuels spending. If you know that your dollars are going to shrink in purchasing power tomorrow, well then you're going to spend today, and consumer spending makes up 68% of us. GDP, yes, Amazon, thanks, you. Secondly, inflation shrinks the government's debt. The third reason that governments everywhere want inflation is because it foils deflation. In a deflationary world, people hoard cash like its gold bullion, tax revenue dries up and the economy stalls, and also inflation. It facilitates wage adjustments. It helps the labor market function. If economic conditions are weak, well, then employers can implement real wage cuts just by keeping salaries flat right where they're at. I mean, that is so preferable to cutting nominal wages directly and giving employees a pay cut notice. Everyone hates seeing that. So those are what four big reasons why governments will take their gloves off and fight in a steel cage match to the death to ensure inflation. So most expect a rate cut at the Feds meeting next week. But if this continues and there were massive cuts, you know, there's something else you've got to ask yourself, do you really want to live in an economy where massive rate cuts occur. I mean, that's what the 2008 global financial crisis and the covid pandemic in 2020 brought to us. So massive cuts mean there's some giant problem out there. Therefore, although the Trump and Powell rivalry, it might make you. Interesting theater and headlines. You know, let's not get carried away. Let's put things in perspective. What matters to you more is how many dollars you're leveraging, the efficiency of your property operations and the quality of your business relationships. Really, the bottom line is that fed tweaks are background noise inflation, that is the long term engine that makes your real estate profitable. Focus there, and let the politicians keep doing the yelling concerns about ongoing inflation and what that means for real estate investors, that's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. Keith Weinhold 8:57 The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Chaley Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com. Keith Weinhold 8:57 You know what's crazy your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back, no weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family. 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family, to 66866, Ken McElroy 17:26 this is Rich Dad advisor Ken McElroy. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Keith Weinhold 17:34 we have a familiar voice back on the show. It's an in house discussion here with our own GRE investment coach since 2021 he's helped you completely free, usually over the phone, learning your own personal goals and then helping you find the market that's the right fit for you, and even help connect you with the exact property address that helps you win the inflation Triple Crown, like say, 321, Mulberry Street in Chattanooga, Tennessee. They say that formal education will make you a living self education will make you a fortune. Well, he's got them both. He's slinging an MBA, and he's an active real estate investor just like you and I. Hey, welcome back to the show investment coach and race Vista. Naresh Vissa 18:25 Hey, Keith pleasure, to be back on. Keith Weinhold 18:27 Inflation is something that affects real estate investors even more so than it does the general public. Since we're borrowing large sums of money and the inflation discussion sure has been interesting lately, you just can't quite get rates back down to 2% still, they've been elevated for years. So talk to us from your vantage point about inflation and future inflation concerns. Naresh Vissa 18:51 Well, Keith, I am concerned about inflation. This is the first time in a year or so that I'm concerned with the direction and with the policy surrounding inflation, here's why. And I brought this up when I was on your podcast in July, the current administration is not talking at all about the fact that inflation is rising. We saw the CPI, for example, hit 2.3% which was four year low earlier this year, and since then, inflation has gone up. That is concerning, that inflation is going back up without any rate cuts. Yet it's gone back, I don't want to say gone back up, but it's gone up. And remember, the Federal Reserve inflation target is 2% so we want to get as close to 2% as possible. And the number one issue in the 2024 election, and the number one issue today is still the cost of everything is right, is too much, which we'll talk about, from gas prices to home values to rents to grocery that's the. Big one, the cost of groceries, the stuff that you buy at grocery stores, etc, everything is just too expensive. Of course, education, you name, childcare, everything is just too expensive. Inflation is still, I think the administration needs to really tackle this problem. They need to really, really tackle it, because it is the number one issue. It is what people essentially, their vote is, is based on it's not necessarily based on some peace agreement in a foreign nation. It's not based on some social issue. The number one issue is going to be this inflation problem. It's are things affordable? Do I have money in my bank account to pay for X, Y and Z? So I am concerned because, yes, tariffs are inflationary. That's kind of common sense. Now I think tariffs can be good. Tariffs can keep inflation in check. If they're handled the right way, we will see that. But my bigger concern is that inflation has been rising. We're not anywhere close to that 2% and we know with a very high degree of certainty that the Federal Reserve is beginning their rate cutting cycle next week with the September rate cut, and that's going to be extended. We've seen President Trump. He's very public, his Treasury Secretary, his Secretary of Commerce, all the economic advisors who he has, they're very transparent about the fact that they want rates slashed, and they want rates slashed quickly. And so we know that we're going to get a rate this is going to be a rate slashing cycle. It's going to be great for the upper class, if you want to call it, it's going to be great for real estate investors, but for the common man, the byproduct of that is going to be higher inflation. There's just no way that you can cut rates so quickly, so low, and you're not going to see inflation. That's my concern. Now on the other hand, and again, we have to see how this plays out. On the other hand, I brought up earlier this year, I've referenced Doge. I think Doge is doing a good job cutting government spending, trying to scale back some of the government...
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569: Star of A&E’s "The Real Estate Commission": Todd Drowlette on Big Deals, Big Drama & Bigger Negotiations
09/01/2025
569: Star of A&E’s "The Real Estate Commission": Todd Drowlette on Big Deals, Big Drama & Bigger Negotiations
Todd Drowlette, a commercial real estate broker with over $2 billion in closed deals, joins to discuss his upcoming A&E show, "The Real Estate Commission," which premieres October 12. Todd emphasizes that commercial real estate is "a trillion dollar industry hiding in plain sight." He points out that people interact with commercial real estate every day - when they go to a grocery store, coffee shop, gas station, or office building - without consciously thinking about it. Commercial real estate loans are about to face a major challenge, with many 5-year loans needing refinancing at much higher interest rates, potentially creating significant market opportunities for investors. Check out the "The Real Estate Commission" show on A&E starting October 12th. Resources: Follow Todd Drowlette on Instagram at and check out Show Notes: For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GRE Free Investment Coaching: Get mortgage loans for investment property: or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” For advertising inquiries, visit: Best Financial Education: Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: Follow us on Instagram: Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, why is that convenience store, gas station or coffee shop located on that exact corner that it's on? It's strategic, and how does a deal like that really get negotiated? We're discussing this and more with an A and E television and streaming star today on get rich education Keith Weinhold 0:28 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Speaker 1 1:14 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:30 Welcome to GRE from Sudbury, Ontario to Sudbury, Pennsylvania, and across 188 nations worldwide, you're listening to one of America's longest running and most listened to real estate investing shows this is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, how did that ever happen? Here I am more slack jaw than a patient in a dentist's chair. But back with you for the 569th consecutive week. Anyway, this is the time of year where many people have just gone back to school. Here at GRE you go forward to school as you learn about what's really going to make a difference and move the financial meter in your future. Now, the world's best known negotiators include Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela today, the former FBI agent Chris Voss is perhaps the world's best known negotiator. You'll recall that we've hosted Chris Voss on the show twice here and talked a good bit about real estate negotiation. Then, I mean, who can forget my mock negotiation with him over a four Plex building, which played out right here on air. It was obvious who won that debate, but Chris is an all around negotiator, not specific to real estate. I thought, wouldn't it be great to get sort of a Chris Voss, but specific to real estate here on the show for you, and that's what we're doing today. So you're really going to enjoy this week's guest. He's also the star of a real estate reality show on the A E Network that's going to make its big, flashy debut next month. Now I had a small negotiation, I suppose, over email with one of my property managers in Florida recently, yeah, I got an email from my manager saying that an air conditioning unit needed to be removed and replaced in one of my single family rental properties there in Florida. Attached was a quote that they obtained from a company for $6,350 and there's conveniently a button for me to hit to approve this charge. But I did not hit the Approve button on that 6350, price. I requested that they provide me with two more quotes. And yes, remember, you pay your property manager often eight to 10% of the monthly rent in management fees they are working for you. So what are they working on to earn that make them go to work and do this for you? All right, for substantial work items, it's a reasonable request for you to seek three quotes. And all right, while they were tracking down the two other quotes, I went to AI. I asked chat GPT, what should the cost be to remove and replace an air conditioner in a 1500 square foot home in Florida? Chat GPT answered, 5500 to $7,500. For a standard three ton system in a 1500 square foot home. All right, so the first number the manager gave me that was sort of right in the middle of that range. A few days later, the second quote came in at 6150, all right, 200 bucks less than. The first one, I replied to them that if the third one doesn't come in substantially lower, that I am going to go seek quotes myself. A couple days later, the third and final quote came in, and it was 4990, yes, so I accepted it. This is about $1,300 less than the first quote that they gave me just for returning a few emails, and it will make the tenant happy to have a new air conditioning system. Newer systems tend to be more efficient, so it's probably going to make the tenant's electricity bill lower as well, and it probably makes it easier for me to justify future rent increases too. That tenant's been there for quite a few years. I'm thinking six years, and today's low home buyer affordability is probably going to keep them renting for a while. And the other thing that could keep them there longer is a new air conditioning system, and that is the biggest rental property expense, or the most I even had to get involved in quite a while, because remember, at GRE marketplace, almost every property there is either brand new or completely renovated. Your cap x expenses should be small for years. Let's meet this week's featured guest. Keith Weinhold 6:31 Have you ever wondered why that coffee shop is on that corner that they're on, or why your grocery store is located just where it is? And how do those deals get negotiated? That's what you'll see on an upcoming new series on A and E. It starts October 12. It's called The Real Estate Commission. There are no scripts. The show captures real life deals as they unfold, as they crumble and fall apart and maybe come back together again. The star of that show is with us today. He believes he will tell you that he's the most prolific commercial real estate broker in the nation, and he has the experience and the gravitas to back that up, because he brings over two decades as a broker, and he's the managing director at Titan commercial Realty Group in New York. He's closed more than 1700 deals. Yes, 1700 deals totaling over $2 billion across the commercial real estate sectors. He's represented everyone from local startups to national REITs. Hey, welcome to get rich education, Todd Drowlette Todd Drowlette 7:36 thank you, and that was quite the introduction. I don't think I could pop up myself. Keith Weinhold 7:40 You've got a full interview is worth the time here to live up to that. Todd, you know, more than 10 years ago, I started living this life where it seems like everything that I say gets recorded and uploaded to the internet, and now you're gone down that same road similar to that. Tell us about your forthcoming reality TV and streaming show that starts next month. What can viewers really expect to see? Todd Drowlette 8:04 There's over 100 shows on national TV about slipping houses, renovating houses, residential brokers. Ours is the first show ever on television to feature commercial real estate and to be entirely about commercial real estate. So it's a docu series. It's an there's eight episodes in the season. It follows my team at Titan and I doing actual real deals, from helping a divorce attorney search for new office space to investors to selling multi family properties. So viewers will be able to kind of see behind the scenes and see actual documented deals as they happen, fall apart, come back together again. I'm hoping the viewers will take away the fact that, yes, you have to be sophisticated and understand what's going on, but it's something that the average person can be involved in. Commercial real estate is a trillion dollar industry hiding in plain sight. You know, people go to the grocery store, like you said, they go to the coffee shop, they go to the gas station, they go to their office building. People use and interact with commercial real estate every single day. It's just like the air. You're not consciously thinking about it, even though you're using it almost every moment of the day, Keith Weinhold 9:10 right? It's something that we all need and interact with. It's almost non discretionary, whether we're buying something at a retail store or filling up at a gas station? Yeah, I think to some people, commercial real estate sounds unapproachable. And as you watch this series, you're thinking, Oh, that's the life that that somebody else lives. It's really not that unapproachable. Does this series really help break that down? Todd Drowlette 9:36 It does, and we made a very conscious decision. So I represent some very large corporations, but the series follows like smaller business and entrepreneurs, and seeing kind of people from the beginning or in different transitions of their business, like I'm growing but you're seeing in real life, actual successful business people. You're seeing them to react to real situations and that kind of moment where there. Like, Man, I think I'm ready to grow and expand. But what if I'm wrong? What if the economy turns Am I doing the right thing? And you're kind of watching us guide them through that process. But you see, you know so much of the internet is reception and people going, Oh, look at this. Look how successful I am. This. You're seeing successful people, and knowing that there's no guarantee in life like the best you're ever going to make is a calculated decision. But there's no point where your life where you're so successful that it just doesn't matter if you lose. Like the deals get larger and the stakes get higher, and every decision you make is potentially a pitfall. So you're going to see real entrepreneurs and real business executives dealing with those decisions of, when do I move? Do I invest? Do I buy? You know, I have this property, I need to get rid of it, and what's that process look like? I love commercial real estate. I can go on, on about it. What I'll be really excited to see is if the everyday person finds commercial real estate interesting, Keith Weinhold 10:54 doers don't wait for uncertainty to abate, or else they would never get anything done. Doers educate themselves and make strategic moves despite the uncertainty and Todd shortly, I do want to ask you more about negotiation and just how that coffee shop gets that prime corner spot, if you will. But first dropping back a bit more introspective, I know that some have called this the series that launched five new real estate careers already. So how transformative is this? Personally for you to do this show, besides making mom proud, it probably changes how others think of you and how you think of yourself. Todd Drowlette 11:32 Well, my mom thought I was nuts to national television, but she's proud, but thinks I'm crazy and she's probably not wrong. How this whole thing came about was we had a show also called The Real Estate Commission, that was on Facebook watch that we averaged about 1.3 million views per episode. The premise of that show that was also called The Real Estate Commission, was, Can four successful real estate brokers take just anyone off the street and turn them into the next 100 million dollar real estate agent. It was two commercial brokers, two residential brokers. When covid happened, I said to Brandon in my office, who's part of the cast of the show, on a I was, you know, looking back now, we know how covid played out, but at the time, it was like they made the announcement, I'm somebody who works 80 hours a week, and I'm looking at potentially, could we be a year with not working and doing nothing. So I'm like, we really need to do something to market. I go, why don't we do a reality show about real estate? And he's like, What in the hell do you know about producing a TV show? I go, well, nothing, but the whole world stopped. There's got to be people. We must know, people in TV who might be sitting at home and might be willing to help produce the show. And he started laughing. He goes, Well, actually, one of my college roommates is high up at Viacom, so we called him, and we put together a whole production team of 50 people in the middle of covid, put out a casting call and filmed the show, and it did really well. And then we kind of went around to the networks and made a deal with a E, but with A and E, I really wanted to show off commercial real estate and kind of show it to the average person and show them, hey, here's this thing that people can participate and be a part of. And it's a super interesting industry because, like, when I was 22 I was the youngest exclusive Starbucks broker in the country. So have you said that coffee shop that ends up in the corner? I was the guy that, you know, Starbucks would run their software and say, you run traffic counts that are available on, you know, state, D, o, t websites. People don't realize when you're driving down the road and you see the rubber thing goes, that's actually either a traffic engineer or the state, and they're seeing how many cars a day, but they're also tracking to the hour on which side of the road. So like, why is McDonald's on the pm side of the road? Or why is Starbucks or Duncan or seven brew coffee? Why are they on the am side of the road? Because they know, looking at the traffic patterns, who's going where. So when we would negotiate a deal like that, they would say, Hey, here's the target markets we want to be in. I was the boots on the ground, so to speak. That says, Okay, let me look up the tax records and let me look up the tax maps. I know they need three quarters of an acre to an acre to fit on. They want to be at a traffic light. We need this many cars per day. Hey, it's great. If we're across the street from a university or a hospital or a major office park or a grocery anchored shopping center. Can we get out in the out parcel? There's a deal structure to it, and then you negotiate the rent and how much tenant improvement dollars, or what contributions the landlord is going to make to the deal. And that's kind of how we identify, you know, locations and negotiate. And as a broker, I get paid a percentage of that overall lease value or a sales transaction, Keith Weinhold 14:36 well, talking about making decisions in the face of uncertainty. I mean, there it is. Case in point, you put together the architecture of a show like this during the pandemic, during the height of uncertainty. That was a really interesting thing that you said when you talk about how, for example, you probably do want to have a coffee shop located, I would imagine when you're in bound on the right. Side of the road there sort of for am traffic, 100% Todd Drowlette 15:05 the same reason, like restaurants that are more dinner based business, businesses will be on the pm side the afternoon drive home. Or liquor stores typically like to be on the pm side of the road because people are going home, they pop in and just continue on their way home, Keith Weinhold 15:20 right? That makes total sense to me. Todd, you do have this great command of real world negotiation tactics, helping to be sure that those prime locations, sort of like we just described, play out and happen from this $2 billion in closed deals, which is a remarkable figure. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with who you work with, who you're negotiating with. Trump was negotiating Manhattan real estate deals, and now that's pretty different, as he's trying to broker a ceasefire agreement among foreign nations. So you've got all these stories, from working with small business owners to multinational brands. So can you tell us about how who you work with changes your approach? Todd Drowlette 16:04 You have to always know what your goal is, and the more research you know about who you're negotiating with, and the more you understand them, the better you're going to do right. Sometimes winning in negotiation is about winning. Sometimes winning in negotiation is just about not losing so sometimes I have clients that say, Get me that particular piece of real estate. I don't care what it costs me. Just get it under any circumstances. I don't care you have I have other clients like, I represent a clothing chain that's like, similar to a TJ Maxx or Marshalls. They've been around 40 years, called label shopper. They're in secondary and tertiary markets all over the country. They are very inexpensive, and they pay very low rent, and they're opportunistic. So the approach for every single deal is completely different on depending what the person's trying to do, but the tactics always the same. I always try to, as a broker, you're in the middle, so I'm always trying to figure out what are the actual deal breakers and what's motivating this side that side, and then you meet somewhere in the middle. And I try to do deals where nobody feels like you bend them over a barrel, you know, and they have a vendetta for 20 years, because it's a very small world in a very long life. So if you really stick it to somebody to the point where they hate you over it, you don't know what's that deal next week or 20 years from now that you really need and find out that person is the kid of the person you really stuck it to, and now, all of a sudden, that deal you need comes back to haunt you from the deal that you won 20 years ago. So I try to like, let people keep their pride intact, and there's a lot of like for just general negotiations. A lot of people negotiate against themselves without even realizing it. So most people fear silence, and I always say, whoever talks first loses. So if I throw out like a number, like if you were selling me something, and I said, I think my top number is $100,000 I will not speak until the other person speaks, because most people are afraid of silence. And if I throw that number out, I'm gonna go, Oh my God, he's not responding. That number is too low, and I'm instantly gonna go, well, maybe I could pay 120 or maybe I could pay 150 I've seen people do it a million times. So when I'm negotiating against people, whatever they say to me, I never respond until they talk a second...
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