551: Is Florida Real Estate Doomed?

Keith discusses strategies for building wealth in real estate, emphasizing efficient property operations and leveraging. He suggests setting tenant occupancy limits, sub-metering utilities, and increasing rentable space.

He explains the leverage ratio, which measures the relationship between debt and equity, and advises maintaining a high ratio for better returns. 

Hear his take on the Florida's real estate market, including falling property values, oversupply, and rising insurance premiums. Despite these issues, Keith remains optimistic about Florida's long-term potential due to its population growth and low taxes.

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:00  

Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, today, the two things you've got to focus on if you're ever going to build wealth as a real estate investor, why Trump wants to fire Fed Chair Jerome Powell, then, is Florida real estate doomed with falling property values, a housing oversupply, spiking insurance premiums and slowing population growth. It's episode 551, of get rich education. 

 

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being the flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, who delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Speaker 1  1:16  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:32  

Welcome to GRE from Manhattan, Kansas to the finance capital of Manhattan in New York City, and across 188 nations worldwide, you are back inside get rich Education. I'm your host, and my name is Keith Weinhold. I think you know that by now, because we deliver weekly shows more steadily and predictably than a new tariff policy. I've got more on tariffs in a funny clip on Trump wanting to fire Jerome Powell in stories on that level soon. But first, you know one thing that I've made you mindful of lately is that a successful real estate investor needs to pay attention to two big things if you want to build wealth First, keep your property operations efficient. This is your cash flow function. And second look at your net worth statement, and be mindful that you are leveraging as many dollars as you responsibly can. Let me break down both of these for you so that you can see what I really mean here the first one, keeping your property operations efficient. That means that right up front, with a new tenant in the application, find out how many tenants are going to live there, and firmly let them know that they cannot exceed this or that they're in violation of the lease. Can you get 20% more rent, or even 50% more rent by furnishing your unit and marketing it not as a long term rental, but as a midterm rental, and targets, say health professionals that are traveling if you're in a hot rental market. Can you simply keep the rent the same, but have new incoming tenants pay a utility bill for you that you had previously been paying by sub metering your utilities. Other examples of taking the rental property you already have and making it more efficient, you know, there are more classic items, like increasing your rentable space, renting out separate on site, storage space, adding a carport, charging pet rent or just boosting the curb appeal. Can you build an adu on your property? How about appealing your property taxes or automating your rent collection. Why don't you take a look at your insurance policies? You know, a lot of them have $1,000 deductibles. Well, if you're an economically resilient investor, consider raising your deductibles to 5k that way you lower your insurance premium and increase your cash flow that way. I mean really, putting in insurance claims can be somewhat of a pain anyway. Okay, well, right. There were maybe, I don't know, 10 or 15 quick ideas for streamlining your property's operations and increasing your cash flow. Now, don't try to do every one of them, but if there's at least one or two that you can think of as low hanging fruit to go ahead and harvest with the nature of what you've got going in your portfolio. And you know, ideas like I just shared there, you can hear about that on some other real estate investing platforms. But you know what the bigger gain. Is that you can actually make they take less work and fewer people talk about these things all right, and that's the second thing I'm talking about. Yes, it is typically more profitable for you and less work for you. If, instead of all those things, you increase your leverage ratio. Now, doing this does not help your cash flow, it helps your net worth. And net worth is something that you can later convert to cash flow. And this second one increasing your leverage that's a strategy that you just don't hear about on very many real estate investing platforms. So I haven't discussed leverage ratio in a long time. So let's talk about what it is, how you can improve yours, and then what it does for building your wealth. Okay, it's the relationship between your debt and your equity, and here's how to determine yours, and then I'll tell you how you're performing. Once you've determined yours, you might even be able to do it roughly in your head. All you do is take the total value of all the real estate that you own and divide it by your loan balances. That's it. Say you own a million dollars worth of real estate and you've got 500k of total debt on all that real estate. Well, it's really simple. Just divide your value a million bucks, buy your debt, 500k and your leverage ratio is two to one. Let's just call that two. If you're looking to build wealth, that number of two is kind of low. It should be higher. It means that you've got 50% equity in your property. Now say that instead, on the day that you bought that million dollars in real estate, you only made a 200k down payment. That's awesome. A million bucks divided by 200k your leverage ratio is five. All right. Well, what are these numbers really mean? Like this two and this five? All right, it's important because it is what you use to multiply your real estate's rate of appreciation by in order to find your rate of return. So just say that your real estate appreciates 4% this year. If your leverage ratio is just two, that's only an 8% return on your skin in the game. But if you've got more debt and your leverage ratio is five, then a 4% return means you've got a 20% return on your skin in the game. Do that keep your leverage ratio high? Now, what if your leverage ratio falls all the way down to a one. What does that mean? Oh, dear, you're not really doing much to build wealth because all of your properties are paid off. You don't have any mortgages on them. So if you're down to a one, all you've got working for you, from an appreciation standpoint, is compound interest. That's the point at which you've fallen from a compound leverage instrument down to a compound interest instrument. And as we know here at GRE which is counter to the mainstream world. And yeah, the mainstream world is where you have to work all of your life at a job you hate. And that's what you'll do if all you have is unlevered compound interest, all right, and if all you have is unlevered compound interest, well, don't book your Blue Origin flight quite yet. You're not going to go on one you can count on sitting behind a desk for decades instead.

 

All right. Well, how do you determine your leverage ratio? Again, it's your total real estate value divided by your equity. All right. Now, how do you keep your number high? By making new purchases with 20 to 25% down payments, and by not making new purchases is another way, and instead performing cash out refinances or doing both, you know another way to increase your leverage ratio, and you might not have thought about this, it's when real estate values fall. Now, that's surely not a desirable way to do it, and it doesn't happen often, but when real estate values fall, that drops both your real estate's value and your equity value by the same amount. And interestingly, with some of the ways that I described that you can add value to a property earlier, like a carport, that makes your cash flow better, but it does make your leverage ratio worse at the same time, a way to decrease your leverage ratio fast and lower your wealth building potential fast is to make an extra principal payment of a few 1000 bucks. I mean that one act alone might drop it from, say, a 3.14 to a three point. One Two over night. But look, I don't know what real estate markets you're invested in, and if you tell me what your number is, I'm gonna know how much your future wealth building power is, because you're keeping dollars not merely compounding, but leveraged. And if your number falls below about two and a half, which means 40% equity, that's typically when I begin looking to refinance or sell an equity heavy property, to do a 1031 into a bigger one. So two and a half, that's the number where you often want to take action. And really this is all just a fresh way of approaching an enduring mantra here at GRE Oh yeah, financially free beats debt free, and this sure can make you a mutineer among the masses. And I've been talking about these mutineers sort of things a lot lately, even with a tinge of irreverence. Perhaps you might remember that three weeks ago here on the show, I discussed how, depending on your circumstance, you can even make a car loan good debt, and how a seven figure income is the new six figures and then, yes, perhaps more irreverence. Last week in your free audio course, it was pretty iconoclastic to break down in detail how a 38% rate of return from just everyday buy and hold real estate is not risky at all. And last week's episode 550 the free course, that's probably the most important episode we've done in a long time. For a beginning real estate investor, if you've got any relative or friend in your life that you know, do you have someone around you that just doesn't get it about real estate investing, that really doesn't understand why you do this, please go ahead and share last week's episode with him. Episode 550 now on to the actual person of one, Donald John Trump. And why do I always say his name that way? I don't know. I'm not sure how that ever got started, but I don't say that as often as I call myself a remorseless slack jaw. In any case, the President wants to fire the Fed Chair Jerome Powell. This is nothing new. It just flared up again. I mean, here's the latest flare up. Listen to how Trump says he's never been fond of Powell. Okay, key in on that. This is Tom llamas on NBC, nightly news. You'll also hear the voices of Trump, Powell and Elizabeth Warren in Washington. 

 

Unknown Speaker  8:38  

There's a mounting standoff between President Trump and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. The President blasting Jerome Powell for not lowering interest rates, accusing him of playing politics. Gabe Gutierrez is at the White House with markets on edge and his trade war escalating. President Trump is lashing out at the Federal Reserve Chairman he once appointed, writing on social media that Jerome Powell's termination cannot come fast enough. I don't think he's doing the job. He's too late, always too late. Slow. And I'm not happy with him. I let him know it, and if I want him out, he'll be out of there real fast, believe me, the rebuke coming after this warning from Powell Wednesday, tariffs are highly likely to generate at least a temporary rise in inflation, the President now slamming him for not cutting interest rates to help the economy. We have a Federal Reserve Chairman that is playing politics, somebody that I've never been very fond of, actually, but he's playing politics. Powell says the Fed needs more clarity before making a move. We're never going to be influenced by any political pressure. People can say whatever they want. That's fine. Trump had previously said he would not try to replace Powell, and earlier this week, the Treasury Secretary stressed the importance of an independent federal reserve. I believe that monetary policy is a jewel box that's got to be preserved. Democrats warning of chaos if Powell is ousted, if Chairman Powell can be fired by the President of the United States, it will crash the markets in the United States. Powell, whose term as Fed Chair ends next year, has said the President does not have the legal authority to fire him. If he asked you to leave, would you go? No.

 

Keith Weinhold  14:38  

 In that clip, Trump said he's never been very fond of pow dude. You appointed him, you You appointed him as Fed Chair in your first term, where you must have liked him more than any of the other candidates. Geez. Now you may or may not like Powell, but I don't see how. He's playing politics before lowering interest rates, it's completely sensible for him to see how the tariffs play out first. The Fed has long been independent of the executive branch, so they're supposed to be Trump wants Powell to lower interest rates. And remember, Powell already cut rates a full 1% late last year, and I really don't even agree with that cut when inflation was still elevated. Trump says Powell is always too late. Well, everyone agrees that Powell was too late to raise rates back in 2022 I mean, that had to do with the whole gaff where he said that inflation is just transitory, and no one will let Powell forget that. But do you give pal credit for a soft landing? I mean, he since brought down inflation while keeping us out of a recession, that's the definition of a soft landing. You know, I don't fully give pal credit there, just a little but remember, by that point, the inflation damage has already been done. It's already hurt a lot of people, and that's not changing. Now, of course, the inflation enriched you and it enriched me, because we're the real estate investors, and inflation is always going to do that for us. What happened is that Trump is frustrated because he saw the European Central Bank just lower their rates. So that's why he wants to see that happen here too. Because of course, lower rates can help the economy, at least in the short term. So I wondered about what you think. So what I did is I asked you in our latest Instagram poll, the question I asked was simply, should Jerome Powell be retained or fired? I was a little surprised at the result. 38% of GRE Instagram poll respondents said pal should be retained, and 62% said fired. I didn't think as many as 62% would say fire Powell. My best guess is that it's because you want lower interest rates on mortgages, and my next best guess is that you want to fire Powell, not because you dislike him, but more because you want to abolish the Fed completely, which I guess means that Powell would be fired that way. Did you hear about what happened when Donald Trump called tech support? Yeah. He told them, my tariffs aren't working. Tech Support responded with, did you try turning them off and back on again. 

 

Hey, coming up shortly is Florida real estate doomed. If you'd like to reach out to us here at the show, you can do so at get rich education.com/contact, that's whether you have a comment or a question or a concern or a content suggestion you can communicate either through voice or email on our contact page, there one thing that we don't need, respectfully, are booking agents for shows reaching out to us. You know, I used to say that we have 50 times as many guest requests to be on the show with me here as we do available spots, but now it is more than 50x and I'm really grateful to host a platform where I guess a lot of people want to join in and contribute here, but the reality is that we only have one show a week, and a lot of weeks like this one I don't have any guests at all on the Show. That page is monitored by my terrific executive assistant, Brenda, just like most everyone here at GRE She's an active real estate investor too, and again, comments, questions or concerns about the show, please contact us at the contact page and get rich education.com/contact. More. Next you're listening to get rich education. 

 

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T. Harv Ecker  20:45  

This is the millionaire minds. T. Harv Ecker, you're listening to the powerful Get rich education with Keith Weinhold. Don't quit your day dream.

 

Keith Weinhold  21:10  

Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold is Florida real estate doomed. Most anyone that pays attention has probably noticed that the Sunshine State has some areas, well, really, a number of them where property values have actually fallen. This is tied to the fact that there's an inventory over supply. There have been spiking insurance premiums tied to hurricanes. And what about the slowing population growth, and since the pandemic, Florida has had some of the fastest growing, highest appreciating markets in the entire nation. But today, in fact, there's a giant home builder there KB Homes that finds Florida's housing market. In their words, it's weak enough that they are cutting prices this spring. And KB Homes is ranked number 545 on the fortune 1000 so they're pretty sizable. And then an even larger home builder, Lennar, they basically said the same thing. The CEO of KB Homes said, quote, demand at the start of this spring selling season was more muted than what we have seen historically, despite a healthy level of traffic in our communities. So we took steps to reposition our communities to offer the most compelling value, and buyers responded favorably to those adjustments. End of the quote, yes, that is a genteel way of saying that we had to cut prices to get buyers like I mentioned to you, starting, gosh, probably a year ago or more, that other home builders have, instead of cutting prices, offered mortgage rate buy downs to buyers, be mindful though of how much your home builder is paying for those buy downs and how much you are at the closing table. Now, as we know, nationally, there's still a housing supply shortage, but KB, who does business in other states, says that Florida is the weakest, and that's due to over supply. Now let's forget about in migration for a second. Okay, that weakness is because a lot of communities are overbuilt to the point that the in migration rate cannot keep up with the over building. And of course, it's hard to generalize. Florida is a big, populous state of 23 million people. Southwest Florida has been hit the hardest that's pretty well documented. Punta Gorda, home values are down 9% year over year. Cape Coral down 7% let's go to the opposite end of the state, and Jacksonville, up in Northeast Florida that has about seven months of housing supply. It's actually pretty close to a balanced market between buyers and sellers, and then in the center of the state, Orlando, there's six months of supply that is a balanced market where there is normalcy in negotiation between buyers and sellers and a smattering of offers on one property And no one rushing and doing things like waving their inspection and then Miami Fort Lauderdale, you know, I really don't talk about them much on the show, because their prices are too high to work well as long term cash flowing rentals, both KB and Lennar say that they're keeping an eye on tariffs and that the changes to immigration have not changed their operations very much yet, because, remember, a lot of construction laborers are immigrants, and if they get deported, and then you need to hire native born US labor. Well, home prices go up, all right. Well, what about the Florida insure? Crisis. You know, over the past few years in Florida, a bunch of carriers have just withdrawn. They have pulled out of the state, farmers, insurance, bankers, insurance, Lexington insurance, all pulled out. Farmers told The New York Times that this business decision was necessary to effectively manage risk exposure. Similarly, AAA is another carrier, and they said that they're not going to renew some policies. They said the markets become challenging. 2022 catastrophic hurricane season that really contributed to an unprecedented rise in reinsurance rates, and that made it more costly for insurance companies to operate there at all. And prior to that, the market was already strained and had increased claims costs due to inflation and excessive litigation. That's what triple A said. All right, so where does this leave homeowners? Well, some are already relying on state and federal insurance programs, like the National Flood Insurance Program. There's a state carrier called citizens now, flood insurance is not required outside of a special hazard flood area, but that doesn't mean that a home is going to escape flooding if a hurricane passes through, but having insurance it does help along and accelerate the recovery process. Florida has some of the best Building Code adoption and enforcement in the country, and that fact alone has saved 1000s of homes and billions of dollars. But modern building codes are not necessarily applied retroactively to older homes. So it's those homes and properties that really have more exposure to hurricanes, those older properties, and a lot of Floridians are just skipping insurance coverage altogether so that they don't have to pay the premiums. They don't have any coverage. If you don't have a lien holder, you can do that. You can skip it, right? Well, like, How bad is it? Exactly? Just, how much have Florida insurance premiums been jacked up at this point. They've increased 60% on average between 2019, and 2023, and while homeowners and investors are primarily bearing that rising cost burden, I mean, insurers are feeling that squeeze as well. It's not just that the incidence of hurricane events is up, but premiums rise, of course, when the cost of labor in materials that it takes to replace and rebuild a damaged home have gone up as well things like concrete and structural steel and now, of course, as real estate investors, we can eventually pass on the cost of our higher insurance premiums to the tenant in the form of a rent increase, But when it goes up 60% in just four years. It's really hard to keep up with that. Florida's infrastructure is under some strain, too, and I see this when I drive the Tampa area. Every few years, I see more and more traffic. It takes me longer to get places like it takes me two or three cycles to go through a traffic light, where it only took me one cycle a few years ago. So roads and schools and utilities are under some duress to keep up with the population growth over the past decade, statewide commute times are up 11% you know, really that shouldn't be a surprise. I mean, that is common in any high growth area. Now, when it comes to insurance rate increases, there is a good chance that the worst is now over. Yes, Florida, insurance rate increases have been slowing down. The average rate increases have dropped quite a bit from 21% back in 2023 to a projected just two tenths of 1% for 2025 okay. I mean, that's basically no change expected for this year. Citizens, property insurance, that state option that I mentioned earlier, their rates are also shrinking, with some policyholders experiencing rate decreases of 5% or more. Now, I told you on a previous show that if you're looking to add rental property in Florida, go with new build properties for low insurance rates. But now I actually got a hold of some real policies between some of my properties and some of my friends properties. I've got them right in front of me here on a 1970s build single family home. I mean, the premiums can be high. We're basically paying 1% or more of the property's value in insurance premiums each year. So a 250k A valued single family rental that was built 50 years ago has a premium of $3,000 in some cases. I mean, that's a lot, but a close friend of mine recently went to GRE marketplace, got connected with one of our Florida providers. There, he bought a new construction duplex for I forget it was either 400k or 420k it's in Ocala, Florida, which is the central part of the state, and his 12 month insurance premium is $694. Wow. What a low premium for a duplex. That's why you go new build in Florida. Newer properties were built to today's construction and wind mitigation codes, and they have low insurance rates. And his duplex also appraised for 10k more than the purchase price. He has both sides already rented. And in fact, he closes on the property today, and yeah, I recommended that he go to GRE marketplace and get into Florida property, because that is indeed what he was interested in, and I sure wasn't going to stop him. So suffice to say, I clearly do not believe that Florida real estate is doomed. Florida has long been the antidote to high tax, high cost states, it has attracted snowbirds and retirees and hourly workers and increasingly younger professionals unable to crack housing markets elsewhere. Since the pandemic, millions of people have flocked to the state. I mean, when you look at a list of the fastest growing metro areas of the United States. I mean, Florida domination continues. You've still got big ones up there, like Lakeland of Florida is actually at the top of the population growth leaderboard nationally for metros with 500,000 or more people, Port St Lucie is also up there. It's third nationally, and Orlando is fourth. Three of the top four population growth metros are still in Florida, but this promise of sunshine and opportunity that has been replaced by something just a little less Sunny. I mean, you've got the rising home prices like Florida's not that cheap anymore, this diminishing affordability and this growing pressure on infrastructure, but Florida has definitely not completely lost its shine. People across the country are still moving to Florida, but not at the same rate that they did a few years ago, and the state is still seeing more people arrive then depart, besides the weather and the beaches that people love, of course, there's zero state income tax, and Governor Ron DeSantis has even proposed eliminating the property tax, like I mentioned to you on the show a while ago, although we can't count on eliminating the property tax anytime soon, if it ever happens. But wow, what a real estate boom that property tax elimination would create. So for the long term, which is what real estate investing is, I still like Florida. One thing that I don't like is trying to catch a falling knife, and that is analogous to say, investing in an area that is going down and has no future. Florida's got a future. It's got some challenges, just like anywhere in the US, but the reason it has a future is because more population growth is almost a guarantee. You don't get many guarantees in investing. Just look at the decennial census figures. Okay, this is the population of Florida every 10 years, starting in the year 1900 that's when they had 528,000 people, yeah, only about a half million people in the entire state, and I'll do some rounding here every 10 years after that. So in 1910 it was up to 750,000 people, then a million, 1,000,005 1,000,009 now we're up to 1950 where it grew to 2.8 million people, and then 5,000,006 point 8,000,009.7, 1316, 18.8 and then 21 and a half million in 2020, and it's 23 and a half million today. Now I only went as far back as 1900 there, but their census data goes back to at least 1830 and the growth has always been torrid, just uninterrupted. Every 10 years. There has been substantial to massive growth for at least 200 years, and Florida has still. Grown more than 2% per year each of the past couple years. In fact, it is still first place of all 50 states for population growth. So areas that are over supplied with housing in Florida are going to be absorbed. So Florida real estate is definitely not doomed. And in fact, adding more Florida real estate at this time, you know, that could very well be the type of thing where 10 years from now, or even five years from now, when their population is substantially bigger and there's less housing available. I mean, it could potentially look like a wise buy that you're able to get property at this time with less competition and maybe even a small discount here in the mid 2020s, and today, you can find three Florida markets listed at GRE marketplace. What else is happening at GRE marketplace? We've added two new markets, and they are also in the South. They are Jackson, Mississippi and Montgomery, Alabama. Yes, these areas are investor advantaged, and they have prices lower than most Florida markets. Though, I don't know that you'll see the net migration inflows into Jackson and Montgomery that you will in a lot of Florida markets. Jackson has a metro population of 600,000 and Montgomery 400,000 they both have really low property taxes. And there's something else that these two new GRE marketplace cities have in common. Any guess both Jackson and Montgomery are state capitals, yes, so they do have a base of government jobs. So check out gremarketplace.com read more about those cities. And of course, we even connect you with free investment coaching there to help you get matched up with some good property. Thanks for listening. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  37:10  

 Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  37:34  

You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter. You also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text GRE to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, GRE to 66866.

 

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