What's Your "And"?

John Garrett’s research involves asking professionals, "Who else are you beyond your job title?" Accountants, consultants, lawyers, engineers, and other professionals everywhere are doing hobbies and passions after they leave the office. We discuss why these outside-of-work interests matter and how they've impacted their career.

699: Marit Burmood is a CPA & Skateboarder [podcast] 11/19/2025

697: Erika Flowers is a Chief Client Officer & Cross-Country Skier & Trail Runner [podcast] 11/05/2025

697: Erika Flowers is a Chief Client Officer & Cross-Country Skier & Trail Runner [podcast] Erika Flowers, the Chief Client Officer at Profitable Ideas Exchange (PIE), shares her journey from growing up in Montana and falling in love with cross-country skiing to racing professionally both in the U.S. and internationally. She reflects on how her passion for skiing helped her build strong friendships, instilled resilience, and taught her goal-setting, all skills she later found invaluable in her corporate career. Erika discusses the understated power of bringing your outside interests, or "Ands," into the workplace, believing these passions make people more human and effective in business. She explains how PIE's culture thrives by embracing diverse backgrounds and putting people first, aligning with their B Corp values. Erika encourages listeners to recognize the unique value of their outside passions and to seek out workplaces that truly support "living your best life." She closes by crediting her ongoing love for cross country skiing and trail running as continual sources of strength and inspiration both personally and professionally. Episode Highlights · Erika Flowers explains that her initial involvement in skiing was about making friends, but it soon evolved into a passion and a core part of her life. · She highlights how the discipline, teamwork, goal-setting, and resilience developed through cross country skiing directly translate into valuable skills for her career and business, not just for athletes but for anyone with an outside interest or hobby. · Erika Flowers stresses that sharing personal interests at work enhances authenticity, relatability, and connection with colleagues, ultimately making teams stronger. · She describes how by PIE putting people first and becoming a B Corp all supports a healthy, human-centered environment that benefits both employees and clients. · Erika Flowers encourages listeners not to shy away from their hobbies or “Ands,” even if they feel niche or irrelevant, because these interests are a source of genuine connection and distinct human value in any professional setting. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/38874025

695: Calvin Harris Jr is a CPA & Runner [podcast] 10/22/2025

693: Bridget Kaigler is a CPA & Gardener [podcast] 10/10/2025

693: Bridget Kaigler is a CPA & Gardener [podcast] Bridget Kaigler, CEO and founder of Bringing Leadership Back, joins the show to share how she discovered her passion for gardening and transforming outdoor spaces during the pandemic. She describes creating her backyard retreat as her own form of therapy, turning a previously untouched space into something “magazine ready.” Bridget opens up about how her gardening journey led her to help friends design their own outdoor sanctuaries and how the process became a source of creativity and balance in her life. She reflects on bringing her authentic, extroverted self to the accounting profession, embracing relationship-building and practical leadership. Bridget also highlights the importance of nurturing passions outside of work to stay energized and connected, encouraging others to “bloom where you are planted.” Through her story, she hopes to inspire others to bring their full selves -- interests, hobbies, and all -- into their professional lives. Episode Highlights · Bridget began creating her backyard oasis during the COVID-19 pandemic, transforming a basic yard into a retreat-like, magazine-worthy space without spending much money. · Gardening and yard beautification serve as a form of therapy and relaxation for Bridget. She finds joy in nurturing plants and creating something beautiful from scratch. · The process of gardening -- design, creativity, patience, and nurturing -- mirrors skills and mindsets she brings to her professional life, especially in leadership and relationship-building. · Bridget realized early in her CPA career that embracing her extroverted personality and authentic self led to stronger relationships, better teamwork, and more success than holding back to fit a narrow professional mold. · She emphasizes the importance of having passions outside of work (your "And"), not only for personal fulfillment but also for sparking meaningful connections in the workplace and showing up as your whole self. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/38488275

691: Roman Kepczyk is a CPA & Triathlete [podcast] 09/24/2025

691: Roman Kepczyk is a CPA & Triathlete [podcast] Roman Kepczyk shares his enthusiasm for triathlons, adventure travel, and building sandcastles as his passions outside of work. He describes how his background in running led to a lifelong love of endurance events and how friendships grew from training and competing in triathlons together. Roman details the organization, discipline, and teamwork required for triathlons and how these skills translate directly into his work improving business processes for CPA firms. He touches on the importance of travel and shared experiences with his wife, highlighting how they plan adventures years ahead and cherish the memories captured in photos. Roman also discusses how being open about his interests creates stronger, more honest connections with colleagues and clients. Ultimately, he encourages listeners to embrace and share their personal passions for greater personal growth and more meaningful professional relationships. Episode Highlights · Roman highlights the importance of having interests and activities outside of work, such as triathlons, traveling, and sandcastle building, which bring fulfillment and shape personal identity. · He explains how training for triathlons, where meticulous preparation and process are crucial, directly contributes to his effectiveness in process improvement and IT consulting work. · Roman emphasizes that talking about hobbies and adventures with colleagues creates trust, encourages honesty, and strengthens professional relationships beyond just the work being done. · He discusses how it’s important to evolve your interests as life changes, like shifting from intense running to open-water swimming as he gets older, while continuing to seek out new adventures and experiences. · Roman finds great value in capturing, backing up, and sharing memories from his adventures with family and friends, underscoring the lasting importance of experiences over material things. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/38319805

689: Nicole DeRosa is a CPA & Zumba Fitness Instructor [podcast] 09/10/2025

689: Nicole DeRosa is a CPA & Zumba Fitness Instructor [podcast] Nicole DeRosa, Director of Tax at SKC & Co. and a brand ambassador with UWorld Accounting, joins the show to share how her lifelong love for dance led her to become a licensed Zumba fitness instructor. Nicole reflects on her journey from childhood dancing and cheerleading, to discovering Zumba at her gym and eventually integrating her passion into both her professional and personal life. She describes the joy of teaching Zumba, highlights memorable experiences like large-scale fundraisers, and explains the importance of bringing your whole self, including your hobbies and passions, into the workplace. Nicole discusses the balance she’s learned to create between her demanding career and her fitness pursuits, emphasizing that pursuing your passions is key to stress relief and fulfillment. She encourages listeners to recognize that if something is important to them, it’s worth integrating into their lives, and talks about how sharing her "And" has inspired community and connection at work. Nicole’s story is a testament to following your interests and not being afraid to bring them to the forefront of your professional world. Episode Highlights · Nicole demonstrates how bringing your personal passions, like Zumba, into your professional life can enrich both worlds, create community, and boost engagement at work. · She openly discusses her journey to achieving a better work-life balance, acknowledging that it takes time, trial and error, and is a continuous evolution. · Nicole stresses the value of leaders being authentic and showing vulnerability creates a stronger team dynamic and makes the workplace more human and motivating. · Nicole encourages people to recognize and embrace their “And” because it’s what makes them unique and brings joy and fulfillment. · She shares the advice that if something matters to you, it has value, and you should find ways to make space for it in your life and possibly at work. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/38155275

687: Robert Eyler is an Expert at Nothing [podcast] 08/27/2025

687: Robert Eyler is an Expert at Nothing [podcast] Robert Eyler shares his journey from college football to becoming a CPA, certified mindfulness meditation teacher and yoga instructor. He discusses how yoga helped him heal both physically and mentally after leaving sports, and how mindfulness practices supported his recovery from an Adderall addiction. Robert opens up about the ongoing stigma surrounding bringing personal passions into the workplace, yet emphasizes the importance of showing up as your whole self for stronger team connections and improved well-being. He recounts transformative experiences, like a 10-day silent meditation retreat and using mindfulness techniques to navigate real-life challenges. Robert encourages listeners to prioritize activities that fill their cups, reminding us that work achievements pale in comparison to meaningful connections and self-care. Ultimately, he believes that embracing your "And" leads to a more balanced, rewarding life, both personally and professionally. Episode Highlights · Robert shared how yoga and meditation helped him transition from being a college football player, recover from addiction, and heal both his body and mind. · He emphasized the value of having interests outside of work, explaining that these passions make people better professionals and more fulfilled humans. · Robert highlighted that slowing down, through practices like mindfulness and yoga, often leads to greater progress and better well-being, in contrast to the constant push for speed and productivity. · He talked about the stigma against openly sharing personal passions at work, and advocated for leaders and workplaces to embrace the whole person, not just the job title. · Robert encouraged listeners to pursue their passions regardless of whether others care, because filling your own cup enables you to better support and connect with others, ultimately leading to a more meaningful life. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/37981765

685: Mark Koziel is a CEO & Meat Smoker & Cigar Smoker [podcast] 08/13/2025

683: Ann-Marie Foucault is a School District Superintendent & Runner [podcast] 07/30/2025

683: Ann-Marie Foucault is a School District Superintendent & Runner [podcast] Ann-Marie Foucault, superintendent of the St. Michael-Albertville School District, joins the podcast to share how her passion for running helps keep her grounded and energized both personally and professionally. She talks about her lifelong love of running, starting in northern Michigan, and how she often explores new cities by going for a morning run while traveling. Ann-Marie discusses the importance of self-care, noting that showing up for herself first enables her to better serve her family and the 7,000 students in her district. She emphasizes building authentic connections with both staff and students, regularly hosting forums and listening sessions to gather honest feedback and encourage student voice. Ann-Marie believes that pursuing passions outside of work helps create stronger relationships and a healthier, more impactful school culture. She encourages everyone to make time for their “And,” since it positively affects productivity, well-being, and community. Episode Highlights · Ann-Marie finds running to be a core part of her identity. It provides her with energy, balance, and clarity in both her personal and professional life. · She lives by Maya Angelou’s quote, “When you know better, do better,” applying it to both running and her work as a superintendent by always striving to improve and push herself while encouraging others to do the same. · Ann-Marie prioritizes building genuine connections with both students and staff. Through regular forums, listening sessions, and classroom visits, she seeks input directly and values everyone’s perspective. · She openly shares parts of her personal life (like running, her dog Stanley, and even little mishaps) with students and staff, using vulnerability to break down barriers and build trust. · Ann-Marie encourages everyone to invest in hobbies and self-care, emphasizing that pursuing personal passions makes people more energized, effective, and capable of serving others, whether in a school district or any other setting. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/37589635

681: Dave Olsen is a CEO & Mountain Biker [podcast] 07/16/2025

681: Dave Olsen is a CEO & Mountain Biker [podcast] Dave Olsen, founder and CEO of Nimbl, shares how his passion for mountain biking has played a transformative role in his happiness, resilience, and approach to work. Dave began biking as a practical means of commuting during his time at BYU, but it quickly developed into a favorite release and source of therapy, helping him ground himself and train for life’s challenges. He recounts memorable biking adventures, including completing the 200-mile LoToJa race and conquering the 100-mile White Rim Trail in a single day, which gave him proof that difficult goals are achievable with determination and the right mindset. Dave explains how the mental and physical endurance he builds on the trail directly translates to his ability to handle business and personal challenges with greater confidence. At Nimbl, he intentionally fosters a culture that values the whole person, encouraging employees to pursue their own “And” outside of work and to integrate personal goals into their professional journeys. Dave emphasizes the importance of being open about hobbies and interests, noting that it not only enriches life but also helps him and his team show up as better leaders, teammates, and humans. Episode Highlights · Dave shared that mountain biking is not just a hobby, but a crucial source of happiness, energy, and personal grounding for him, acting as a form of release and therapy. · He emphasized that investing time in mountain biking (or any passion) actually makes him a better leader, employee, husband, and father, as he returns to work and life “lit up,” refreshed, and more effective.· At his company, Nimbl, Dave intentionally integrates space for employees’ personal goals and passions, aligning individual fulfillment with business needs and making it a key part of their people experience. · Dave talked about how the perseverance, mental toughness, and training discipline developed through biking directly help him handle stressful or challenging moments at work and in life. · He encourages sharing “Ands” at work and believes companies are more successful and people are happier when everyone is seen as a whole, multidimensional person, not just for their job titles or roles. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/37403075

679: Chris Alder is an Executive Coach & Zen Priest [podcast] 07/02/2025

677: Ben Curtis is a CPA & Genuine Community Builder [podcast] 06/18/2025

675: Claire Dowdall is a Director of Brand & Powerlifter [podcast] 06/04/2025

675: Claire Dowdall is a Director of Brand & Powerlifter [podcast] Claire Dowdall, Director of Brand at Exactly What to Say, shares her unexpected journey into the world of powerlifting, a passion she only discovered a year ago. She explains how she overcame setbacks, including failing her initial competition, to eventually win first place in her category at the British Showdown Championships. Claire reflects on the valuable lessons powerlifting has taught her about mindset, resilience, and progressive growth, and how these principles translate directly into her professional life. She emphasizes the importance of having pursuits outside of work and how these interests can positively impact creativity, problem-solving, and workplace wellbeing. Claire encourages leaders to actively learn about their team's outside-of-work passions, noting the positive ripple effects that can result. Her story exemplifies the power of a personal "And" and how sharing it can inspire others to find and embrace their own unique interests. Episode Highlights · The discipline, mindset, and lessons learned from powerlifting—like progressive overload, embracing failure to find your limits, and gradually improving—translate directly to achieving success and resilience in the workplace. · Claire believes having an interest outside of work makes life richer and more balanced. Personal pursuits create a positive ripple effect in both professional and personal spheres. · She emphasizes that sharing your interests with colleagues can inspire others and bring fresh energy and creativity to the workplace. She also urges employers to actively ask about and embrace employees’ outside interests. · Claire highlights the crucial role that mindset plays in both sports and professional life. Building confidence, developing an “alter ego” for challenging situations, and being present in the moment elevate performance and wellbeing. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/36696725

673: Neeraj Nagarkatti is a Global Tax Geek & Multilingual Comedian [podcast] 05/21/2025

671: Jen Hamilton is a Fractional COO & Jiu Jitsu Student [podcast] 05/07/2025

671: Jen Hamilton is a Fractional COO & Jiu Jitsu Student [podcast] Jen Hamilton shares her journey into Jiu Jitsu, inspired by her son, despite initially knowing nothing about martial arts. She reflects on the challenges and personal growth she’s experienced through seven and a half years of practice, emphasizing that perseverance and doing hard things on the mat translate to greater resilience and determination in her work as a Fractional COO. Jen highlights the value of being a beginner, the importance of community support, and how embracing failure has made her a stronger leader. She also talks about how her “And” makes her a more empathetic and well-rounded person. Jen encourages listeners to follow their interests, even if they have nothing to do with their job, as those passions help shape a richer, more empowered sense of self. Ultimately, she believes that continually challenging oneself in new ways is key to growth both personally and professionally. Episode Highlights · Jen started jiu jitsu not because she was naturally athletic, but because she wanted to support her son and later challenged herself. She found it difficult but rewarding, showing the value of pushing through discomfort and not giving up. · Her dedication to jiu jitsu, despite not being naturally gifted at it, reinforced her ability to tackle hard things at work. It gave her the confidence to handle professional challenges, knowing she’s capable of perseverance outside her comfort zone. · Jen emphasizes how practicing jiu jitsu with a supportive group has been crucial, highlighting the value of learning from and being encouraged by others, both on and off the mat. · She openly discusses her struggles and the slower pace of her progress, noting that consistently showing up and persisting, even when success is hard-won, is more important than immediate wins. · Jen points out that fully embracing who you are—including your non-work passions—makes you a stronger, more empathetic leader. It deepens your humanity, ability to relate to others, and brings out strengths like determination and consistency. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/36413290

669: Matt Haney is a Fractional COO & Golfer & Traveler & Fisherman [podcast] 04/23/2025

669: Matt Haney is a Fractional COO & Golfer & Traveler & Fisherman [podcast] Matt Haney, a fractional COO with Sinclair Ventures, shares how his passions for golf, travel, and fishing have shaped both his personal and professional life. As a lifelong golfer, Matt describes the sport as more than competition, focusing on the value of relationships and time spent in nature. He highlights the transformative power of golf trips with friends, like his curated adventures to Bandon Dunes, and the deep connections formed through shared experiences. Matt talks about inheriting the “travel bug” from his wife's family, crediting his grandfather-in-law’s adventurous spirit and prioritization of experiences over things. Fly fishing, especially in mountain streams, is another source of joy, reminding him of the importance of being present and connecting with nature. Throughout the conversation, Matt emphasizes that having outside interests is mission-critical for humanizing the workplace and fostering lasting connections with colleagues. Episode Highlights · Matt emphasizes that hobbies like golf, fishing, and travel are essential for personal well-being and professional effectiveness. They make you a better person and leader. · Golf isn’t just a game for Matt, but an opportunity to connect with others, enjoy nature, and continually challenge himself. The relationships and mental shifts he’s gained through golf have been life-changing. · Inspired by his wife’s family, Matt believes experiencing new places and cultures expands your world and creates stories and bonds you carry throughout life. · Using practices like EOS Meeting Segues, Matt brings people together at work by encouraging them to share personal 'wins' and outside interests, which boosts morale, builds trust, and deepens collaboration. · Matt prioritizes his "Ands" and encourages the same for his teams, stressing that a culture of overwork isn’t healthy—real success is supporting each other’s full lives, goals, and well-being, both in and out of the office. /episode/index/show/greenapple/id/36251975