The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Where Therapists Live, Breathe, and Practice as Human Beings It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when clinicians must develop a personal brand to market their private practices, and are connecting over social media, engaging in social activism, pushing back against mental health stigma, and facing a whole new style of entrepreneurship. To support you as a whole person, a business owner, and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.
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Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach
01/16/2023
Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach
Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach Curt and Katie interview Maureen Werrbach of the Group Practice Exchange on upcoming trends for mental healthcare. We talk about what is predicted, how to prepare your private practice for success in 2023, and how to plan for unexpected changes to our profession. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Maureen Werrbach, LCPC, The Group Practice Exchange Maureen Werrbach established The Group Practice Exchange after starting her private practice, Urban Wellness, and growing it into successful group practices in various locations. Spending countless hours researching how to start a private practice (the legal and procedural steps) and then so many more hours learning how to grow it into a group (again trying to figure out the appropriate steps), she remembers wishing there was a place that she could go, or a book that she could read, that would explain not only the steps it would take to launch a group practice, but also discuss topics that relate to group practice ownership. A degree in the social service field doesn’t offer any training on the business side of running a group practice! Maureen learned through trial and error what works and what doesn’t in running a counseling group practice. She enjoys helping others reach their full potential and feel confident in running their business. In this podcast episode, we talk about upcoming trends in Mental Health and what it means for your therapy practice We reached out to our friend Maureen Werrbach of the Group Practice Exchange about where our field is moving and how we can plan for success. The way therapy is provided and paid for will be changing “I feel like are going to be (or have already started) affecting our industry – outpatient private practice – is the shift, slow shift to values based reimbursement… which essentially is shifting away from a fee-for-service model that insurance companies now pay a certain dollar amount for sessions, to values-based reimbursement based off of values-based care (which insurance companies are going to be dictating what values based care is)… they're going to shift from this fee for service model of paying a flat amount per CPT code to a drastically reduced amount and then based off of the values-based care that you give, there can be additional reimbursements per session.” – Maureen Werrbach, LCPC Insurance: Fee for service versus value-based pricing Large tech companies and one-stop shops Ease of access and diminished costs via telehealth What therapists can do to future-proof their practice “There's going to be an unfortunate consequence. You already have a therapist shortage. I believe that there's going to be a lot of people who close their doors because the business side of it becomes too difficult. And where my feedback is: start now – by any practice owner, solo or group – start now by dedicating even one hour a week to researching the future.” – Maureen Werrbach, The Group Practice Exchange Strong niche and branding Doing what we do best Addressing fees, profit margins, hiring Dedicate time to researching upcoming trends Diversifying offerings Determining the best fit for your business, your career, your employment Special considerations for Group Practice Owners in 2023 The concerns related to large group therapist mills taking employees Focus on people, culture, and innovation Intentionality related to values, mission, vision Avoiding divisiveness and conflict between employers and employees The importance of transparency and clarity on how you’ve set up your practice Pathways for employees to grow and creative employment opportunities Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Maureen’s previous interview: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist
01/09/2023
Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist
Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist Curt and Katie chat about money: considerations for investing and getting paid as a therapist. We look at typical unpaid opportunities and how to decide whether to do them. We also talk about client care practices that may take time, but could keep clients. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about money mistakes that many therapists make We talk a lot about making sure that therapists get paid, but thought it was worth talking about when therapists should invest in their business and when they may want to work for free. What are the lessons Curt and Katie learned around investing in their businesses? Electronic Health Records/Practice Management systems are very helpful Automation helps your business to run without you Sometimes visibility is worth working for free How do you decide if you should do something for your business? “I gave a presentation, it's gotta be more than 10 years ago at this point, for a group of students. I think, like five people showed up… But I still get referrals from one of the people who came there. And it turned into a really wonderful relationship, because I sounded like I knew what I was talking about.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT What are the practical benefits and challenges? What are the other potential benefits (like enjoyment)? What is the investment of time, money, and expertise? What is the return on investment? Specifics on deciding to take unpaid work “There are elements of this where it's really looking at is the audience strong enough? Is there any money eventually? And do you actually want the referrals from the audience that you're going to be in front of? Because if all of those things are yes… I would consider – at least the first time out – doing some content creation (because I love content creation) without getting paid to see does it actually pan out. But you want to make sure you track that to determine: am I going to actually get anything from this this relationship and from this work that I'm doing?” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT What new relationships will be developed? Will you get visibility with the audience you’re seeking? Will you obtain access to relevant learning? Is the entity that is asking you legit and established? Are there other forms of compensation (like photos or videos)? Are you able to get clients from this work? (And what are new clients worth to you?) Client care versus getting paid “I don't think it's helpful, at least not for customer service purposes, to view your client as trying to take advantage of you.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Setting up appropriate boundaries and policies Avoiding additional costs, if you can (i.e., setting fees in a private pay practice to include these extras) Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Our Linktree: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW
12/26/2022
How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW
How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW Curt and Katie interview Kym Tolson, the traveling therapist. We look at how a modern therapist can be a digital nomad, including what business logistics to consider as well as how to travel well. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW I'm Kym Tolson, I'm an LCSW and CSAC licensed in the state of Virginia. I have an online insurance-based therapy practice. I lived in Florida until 2/2/22 when we (my BF and I) became digital nomads. Now, we will live in Air BnB's and travel the world. During the COVID lockdowns, I had a lot of time to work on my "side-hustles". I still saw my clients, but I also continued to perfect my course, "DIY Insurance Billing for Private Practice". Over 950 clinicians have taken my course and I'm humbled to be able to guide so many therapists on a path of empowerment and knowledge in their practices. I truly believe it's imperative to have at least a basic understanding of insurance billing if you are going to accept it in your practice. In addition to my course, I created a supportive community, Bill Like A Boss, for therapists who are billing insurance in their private practices. Since that time, I've created 8 income streams to support my traveling obsession. Luckily, coaching other therapists through my courses, consultations, and membership has given me space to see fewer clients and make a higher income. I've been able to scale up and serve more people at the same time instead of being stuck in the 1:1 therapy model. Now I have the space and finances to be a digital nomad and actually enjoy the places I'm traveling to! Most recently, I started a Podcast!! The Traveling Therapist to share my journey as well as the stories of other traveling therapists. Please feel free to reach out to , , and if you would like to learn more. In this podcast episode, we talk about working as a therapist when traveling We reached out to our friend Kym Tolson who lives and works as a digital nomad. “It's kind of like being on vacation every day.” – Kym Tolson, LCSW What are the most important considerations when working as a digital nomad? Checking the Wi-Fi before booking your accommodations How long to stay in each place (Kym says about 2.5 weeks) Finding a schedule that works and only takes small tweaks when you change time zones Planning around the seasons and ideal locations What are the business considerations for traveling therapists? Consult with tax attorney and accountant, where to register your business Reach out to boards for the state you are traveling to (to determine if you can practice within the state) Paying attention to state of licensure and state where you are working Considerations for business write offs and expenses Tracking business expenses, income, and the location these things happen Managing work-life balance as a digital nomad Finding the right times for work Setting a schedule Compartmentalize fun and work separately What have been the biggest surprises in becoming a digital nomad? The number of possibilities for each day How hard it was initially in letting go of stuff and how easy it seems like it is to let go of stuff now The feelings about not having a homebase What are the necessities when traveling as a digital nomad? “We definitely need multiple Wi Fi options… So we have two different hotspot carriers because if mine’s not working, his might be and vice versa. We can use each other’s spots. We also have another portable mobile hotspot that we can turn on and off as we need. It connects to any cell service that's local to where that hotspot is. So that's another alternative. So we definitely have that taken care of everywhere we go, because we both need the Internet to be able to work.” – Kym Tolson, LCSW Specific creature comforts or life necessities (for Kym it’s pots/pans to manage Celiac disease) Computer Numerous Wi-Fi options (different carriers for cell-phone coverage and portable mobile hotspot) Airbnbs have everything Being organized Understanding of the impacts of mode of travel and type of accommodations How do clients react to therapists who are on the road? Decide on the level of transparency on traveling or location Virtual background for continuity Clients are usually pretty flexible with traveling therapist What are the biggest challenges when thinking about the traveling lifestyle? Leaving family and home Scheduling Costs and money mindset Loneliness if you are doing it on your own Organization and planning Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! coupon code for 25% off is MODERNTHERAPIST Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Smarter than SMART: How therapists can improve goal-setting with clients
12/19/2022
Smarter than SMART: How therapists can improve goal-setting with clients
Smarter than SMART: How therapists can improve goal-setting with clients Curt and Katie chat about setting goals. We look at why goals are important to therapists, SMART goals (what they are, what works and what doesn’t), and how to move beyond SMART goals to more robust goal setting and behavior design. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about how to strengthen your goal-setting skills Many therapists learn SMART Goals and objectives as the primary tools for creating treatment plans. Oftentimes, goal setting can be a check box for insurance or a frustrating activity that doesn’t seem to support clinical progress. We dig deeper into how to make SMART goals better (SMARTer goals?), and we uncover and address the limitations of SMART goals. The current research on how to move past SMART goals to more effective and strategic planning for change also helps to make our clients dig deeper into the process of achieving their goals. We also explore additional goal-setting models to inform and create a more robust goal setting strategy…and we do it all with a demonstration on how to put it into action! Why is goal-setting important to therapists? Therapeutic benefit Ethical responsibility Ability to achieve goals What are SMART Goals? Do they work? A goal-setting style that leads to concrete behavioral goals Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Timebound There are challenges that do not lead to goal attainment The benefits of effort or progress goals versus outcome goals May need to add steps to create a more robust plan How can you improve SMART goals? “Even though it's a lot easier for clinicians to have goals that will span a number of treatment plan periods, it's actually not effective for our clients.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Using the Grip on Life model Understanding the challenge and making sure that the SMART goal addressed the challenge Digging deeper into the elements of SMART goals Identifying the barriers to following through with goals set Finding life skills that help to reach the goal Exploring values, planning, attention Looking at what is actually more motivating Is motivation sufficient to make the goal happen? “[Make] sure that you're testing your own assumptions, because we want to meet the client where they are, in their timeframe of making the change. Because if we push them too hard, it becomes not realistic, or it doesn't become attuned to them.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT What is the key difference between setting goals and behavior design? Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg Motivation is fickle Finding the smallest behavior change that can move you toward the goal Create a habit, put it into something you’re already doing, and celebrate the accomplishment Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! References mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Bertelsen, P. & Ozer, S. (2021). Grip on life as a possible antecedent for self-control beliefs interacts with well-being and perceived stress. Scandinavian Journal of Psychology, 62, 185–192. Fogg, B. J. (2020). Tiny habits: the small changes that change everything. Boston, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Gano-Overway, Lori & Sackett, Sarah. (2021). Let’s Get Smart and Set Goals to ASPIRE. Journal of Sport Psychology in Action. 1-15. 10.1080/21520704.2021.2007192. Geurtzen, N., Keijsers, G. P. J., Karremans, J. C., Tiemens, B. G., & Hutschemaekers, G. J. M. (2020). Patients’ perceived lack of goal clarity in psychological treatments: Scale development and negative correlates. Clinical Psychology & Psychotherapy, 27(6), 915–924. Müller, A. A., & Kotte, S. (2020). Of SMART, GROW and goals gone wild - A systematic literature review on the relevance of goal activities in workplace coaching. International Coaching Psychology Review, 15(2), 69–97. Parish, T. S. (2020). IMPROVING OUR CHOICES THROUGH EFFECTIVE GOAL SETTING and PLAN-MAKING. International Journal of Choice Theory & Reality Therapy, 15(1), 41–44. Preben Bertelsen, Simon Ozer, Peter Faber, Anne Sofie Jacobsen & Toke Lund-Laursen (2020) High school students’ grip on life and education, Nordic Psychology, 72:4, 265-291, DOI: 10.1080/19012276.2019.1690557 Starreveld, A. (2021). MAGIC: A Proposed Model Based on Common Factors. Integrative Psychological & Behavioral Science, 55(3), 582–592. Weintraub, J., Cassell, D., & DePatie, T. P. (2021). Nudging flow through “SMART” goal setting to decrease stress, increase engagement, and increase performance at work. Journal of Occupational & Organizational Psychology, 94(2), 230–258. Zarate, M., Miltenberger, R., & Valbuena, D. (2019). Evaluating the effectiveness of goal setting and textual feedback for increasing moderate‐intensity physical activity in adults. Behavioral Interventions, 34(4), 553–563. https://doi.org/10.1002/bin.1679 *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Navigating the Social Media Self-Diagnosis Trend
12/12/2022
Navigating the Social Media Self-Diagnosis Trend
Navigating the Social Media Self-Diagnosis Trend Curt and Katie chat about the TikTok Mental Health and the self-diagnosis trend. We dig into what diagnosis is (and what is actually useful about diagnosis). We also explore the concerns with social media self-diagnosis as well as how we can support our clients with getting accurate assessment and treatment. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about self-diagnosis and the impact of social media We have both heard about TikTok diagnoses in our practices and wanted to talk about how therapists might navigate this new trend. What is the TikTok trend of self-diagnosis? Lots of influencers on social media are sharing content Unvetted content creators Some good information mixed in with very vague information that can be confusing What is diagnosis? “The way I see diagnosis is that it's a construct… It's labeling folks that seem to fall together with similar symptoms. And the medical model says, that's a real thing. And then we can do treatments or prescribe medication for it... And so, to me, some of the self-diagnosis stuff is almost colluding with this medical model that’s saying, if you have a couple of these things over here, and a couple of those things over here, then you have this label, this label is a real thing. And that blows my mind, because I think a lot of folks in the self-diagnosis realm are trying to kind of push up against the establishment, but they're lending credence to this idea that diagnosis is a real, concrete thing versus a tool to help with treatment planning, and to understanding us better.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Rosenhan experiment (experiment showing that malingering patients will probably be misdiagnosed) Constructs of things that typically fall together Effective for treatment planning and getting this treatment covered by insurance Identity versus something to heal What are concerns with social media self-diagnosis? “The point of having a professional be able to properly evaluate is looking through that more nuanced clinical eye in order to look at where the threshold is that actually meets diagnostic [criteria] versus actually just having some characteristics in common with [the diagnosis]. Somebody can be nervous, does not mean that they have anxiety… What is pathologizing normal feelings?” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Focusing in on small elements and then having that frame their full life experience Seeking only confirmatory diagnosis versus allowing for differential diagnosis Clinicians who are not doing full assessments to support clients who have self-diagnosed Clients who do not need treatment taking slots from those who do need assessment and treatment Lack of nuance in the social media content that doesn’t include information on differential diagnosis Inaccurate treatments based on inaccurate self-diagnosis Malingering and factitious disorder risk Pathologizing normal feelings Being inundated with so much information Confirmatory bias How to support clients who have sought diagnostic information on social media and google? “What started the whole thing… clinicians under diagnosing, undervaluing client feedback, not asking all the right questions. And so, folks are feeling dissatisfied with what we're doing and heading to the interweb to understand better what it is that's going on.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Therapists need to listen to their clients, so they don’t feel the need to go elsewhere for information Identify what is resonating for clients and explore what it means to them Educate clients about differential diagnosis Walk through their research (to listen and to help vet sources) Take your client seriously and support them in getting the help they need Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Articles: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Therapists Should Know About Sexual Health, Monkey Pox, and the Echoes of the AIDS Epidemic: An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT
12/05/2022
What Therapists Should Know About Sexual Health, Monkey Pox, and the Echoes of the AIDS Epidemic: An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT
What Therapists Should Know About Sexual Health, Monkey Pox, and the Echoes of the AIDS Epidemic: An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT Curt and Katie interview Mallory Garrett about sexual health as well as the current concerns related to Monkey Pox. We discuss what therapists usually get wrong when working with sexual health, what therapists need to know about STIs, as well as Monkey Pox. We talk about the relevant history of the HIV/AIDs epidemic and the community responses to Monkey Pox. We also look at how therapists can be most helpful to clients within our scope of practice. Resources to stay up to date with Monkey Pox and sexual health are also included in the show notes. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT Mallory Garrett is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in California and New York. She graduated with a BA in Comparative Literature from UCLA and an MS in Counseling from CSU-Northridge. She began working in the social services sector as a Resident Services Intern with a low-income housing corporation for people living with HIV/AIDS and other chronic health conditions. She continued working in this field during her traineeship and internships as she worked towards licensure. She loves speaking to therapists about destigmatizing HIV/AIDS and STIs and has co-facilitated a workshop through Simple Practice Learning. When not working she enjoys going to the theater and traveling. In this podcast episode, we talk about sexual health and sexually transmitted infections (STIs) We talk about sexual health broadly as well as the recent concerns about Monkey Pox and the historical context of HIV/AIDs. What do therapists get wrong when working with sexual health? “When you're working with someone who is in a mismatched libido relationship, oftentimes we look at it and say, well, the long-term relationship is not about sex, it shouldn't be about sex. It's about other things. It's about, you know, companionship, and friendship and mutual respect for your partner. And those are definitely important. And those are the cornerstones of our relationship. But sex is also a cornerstone of a relationship.” – Mallory Garrett, LMFT Lack of education, or education that solely focuses on reproduction Fear about scope of practice when addressing folks who are being treated medically Lack of understanding and exploration of libido mismatches Downplaying the importance of sex in our clients’ lives The moralistic or puritanical nature of how many people approach sex What do therapists need to know about sexual health, STIs, and Monkey Pox? Monkey Pox is not technically a STI, but is primarily transmitted sexually in the US The stigma and concerns of being ignored, especially from those who lived through the HIV/AIDS epidemic Gay Rights and Sexual Liberation has relevance to these diseases The extreme societal bias toward the gay community during that time, medical neglect The emergence of Monkey Pox brought back the fears, stigma, and neglect How can therapists help therapists have discussions related to Monkey Pox or STIs? Approaching sexually transmitted infections with a harm reduction lens Empowering clients to make decisions Referring folks to their local public health department for information on vaccination What is Monkey Pox? Monkey Pox does not seem to be spread asymptomatically The lesions are very painful and are the primary reason for hospitalization Primarily being spread through close intimate contact by men who have sex with men Monkey Pox is typically not fatal, but there are two different strains with different fatality rates How do therapists support folks who have Monkey Pox? Push back against judgment and shame, checking own bias Meeting clients where they are Decreasing isolation through virtual sessions Understanding the pain related to the lesions, as well as the potential disfigurement How can therapists stay up to date on sexual health issues, including Monkey Pox? Follow CDC and WHO online Follow AIDS activists who are following Monkey Pox Scroll down for links from Mallory Why is it important for therapists to step into advocacy for our patients? “More than an expert, I would describe myself as an advocate, because it is one of those things where it's so hard sometimes to stay up to date with all the science and the details. And ultimately, like as therapists especially, we don't need to know the science and the details. We need to know the gist, but not the specifics. I don't need to know what viral strain, etc., to have empathy and understanding for my clients.” – Mallory Garrett, LMFT Providing empathy and compassion regardless of our medical understanding Doctors and other medical providers are not perfect, so it is important for clients to have good questions and feel empowered Encouraging folks with lived experiences to sit at the table when policy decisions are being made Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Mallory’s website: Mallory’s twitter: Mallory’s course on SimplePractice: Mallory’s recommendations for staying up to date on sexual health issues: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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It’s the Lack of Thought That Counts: Ethical Decision Making in Dual Relationships
11/28/2022
It’s the Lack of Thought That Counts: Ethical Decision Making in Dual Relationships
It’s the Lack of Thought That Counts: Ethical Decision Making in Dual Relationships Curt and Katie chat about dual relationships. We talk about the types of dual relationships, how often therapists get in trouble for these types of relationships, how to manage dual relationships, and the ethical decision making process to go through to decide whether to engage in a dual relationship. This is a law and ethics continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about ethical decision making to navigate dual relationships We take a deeper dive into the complex relationships that we can have with our clients, our supervisors and our supervisees. What are dual relationships? Therapists know a lot about a very specific dual relationship: having sex with your clients, which is not acceptable There are many different types of potential dual relationships (we talk about the definitions of each type) The different hats we may wear with clients and colleagues How do you manage a dual relationship? Open conversations Outside neutral party facilitating the transition in the relationship The assessment of benefit or harm, whether there is coercion Exploring how culture interacts with these types of relationships How often are therapists getting in trouble for dual relationships? About 1/3 of complaints are due to sexual relationships with clients Other types of complaints include conflict of interest, non-sexual, or not described Concerns in rural areas are actually less dual relationships than incompetence Most complaints happen after the relationships have ended Why do therapists engage in harmful dual relationships? “Oftentimes [in predatory dual relationships] there is a conspiratorial element of it – if the client knows (hey, we're stepping across the line) or there is a very manipulative element if the therapist is framing it as this is good for you. And so, once there's a rupture or an end to the relationship and you start talking about, oh, my therapist did this and people are like "what?!?!", I think it's that element of [realizing] I've been wronged by my therapist, and let me go and tell the world that they did this thing.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Boundary slips Manipulation, intellectualization Not a thoughtful process Not an examination of bias Therapists going through an intuitive process versus a formal decision-making process What is a strong formal process for ethical decision making? “One of the calls to action, as far as any other ethics professors: really reinforcing the importance of an ethical decision-making model, because that is what the licensing boards and the ethics committees want you to do. If you go through a good model, and even if you end up with slightly the wrong answer, if you've put good thought into it, it at least formalizes the process and gives people an insight into how you're thinking about things.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Pope and Vasquez have a 17 Step Process for ethical decision making Deeply examining the question, the impact, and exploring any bias Identifying and understanding relevant laws and ethics Consultation, documentation, and evaluation We walk through a specific dual relationship question: what happens if your client refers a friend and colleague to you? How do you decide whether to take the client or not? Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! References mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Boland-Prom, K. Johnson, J. & Gunaganti, G. S. (2015) Sanctioning Patterns of Social Work Licensing Boards, 2000–2009, Journal of Human Behavior in the Social Environment, 25:2, 126-136, DOI: 10.1080/10911359.2014.947464 Brownlee, K., LeBlanc, H., Halverson, G., Piché, T., & Brazeau, J. (2019). Exploring self-reflection in dual relationship decision-making. Journal of Social Work, 19(5), 629–641. https://doi.org/10.1177/1468017318766423 Pearson, B., & Piazza, N. (1997). Classification of dual relationships in the helping professions. Counselor Education and Supervision, 37(2), 89-99. Pope, K. S., Vasquez, M. J. T., Chavez-Dueñas, N. Y., & Adames, H. Y. (2021). Ethics in Psychotherapy and Counseling: A Practical Guide (6th ed.). Wiley. Wilkinson, Tyler, Dannielle Smith, and Ramona Wimberly. "Trends in ethical complaints leading to professional counseling licensing boards disciplinary actions." Journal of Counseling & Development 97.1 (2019): 98-104. *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: What You Should Know About Walk and Talk and Other Non-Traditional Counseling Settings and Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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How Can Therapists Help Couples Recover from Infidelity?: An Interview with Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem
11/21/2022
How Can Therapists Help Couples Recover from Infidelity?: An Interview with Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem
How Can Therapists Help Couples Recover from Infidelity?: An Interview with Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem Curt and Katie interview Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem, Psy.D, LMFT about System Affair Recovery Treatment (SART) and how therapists can better address infidelity in treatment. We discuss what therapists usually get wrong when working with infidelity, the difference between typical couples counseling and affair recovery, and why infidelity happens. We also look at the SART Model as well as tactics and treatment teaming. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem, PsyD, LMFT Award-winning marriage counselor and researcher, Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem is recognized as a leading expert in the field of infidelity counseling. He is the author of the acclaimed book, Infidelity: The Best Worst Thing that Could Happen to Your Marriage, and the founder of the Infidelity Counseling Center. His research interests and clinical work are focused on identifying the causes of infidelity and providing the best treatment for recovery from its impact. He developed Systematic Affair Recovery Therapy (SART) ™, a method of infidelity counseling that has helped hundreds of couples navigate the challenges of the healing journey from affairs. Dr. Alsaleem is an international lecturer and speaker. His engaging talks have helped many counselors broaden their understanding of infidelity and gain the necessary clinical tools to help their clients recover from affairs. Learn more at TalalAlsaleem.com. In this podcast episode, we talk about Infidelity We explore with Dr. Talal Alsaleem what good infidelity counseling can look like and what therapists often get wrong when approaching this type of therapy. What do therapists get wrong when working with infidelity? “Infidelity is really one of the most prevalent issues that couples face and it's one of the most damaging, but it's mind boggling to me that in this day and age as trained professionals, were so ill equipped to deal with it.” – Dr. Talal Alsaleem Not understanding the goal of infidelity counseling Lack of clear clinical expectations Getting too focused on the emotional expression Bias and lack of knowledge Lack of adequate training in graduate programs and internship sites Lack of understanding the etiology of the affair What is different between couples counseling and affair recovery? Strategy Length of session Importance of each intervention Why does infidelity happen? Can be either individual or relationship factors Unhappiness within the relationship is not the only reason Individual mental health issues, including personality disorders Addiction including hypersexuality Environmental factors, including jobs, gender ratios Differentiating polyamory from infidelity Social contracts and understanding and honoring the relationship What is the Systemic Affair Recovery Treatment (SART) Model? “So in their quest to understand why the infidelity happened, we have to accept that the unfaithful is 100% responsible for the decision that they make for being unfaithful. So even in the worst case scenario, whether there was a huge relationship deficit, and you have the worst partner in the universe, that doesn't give you permission to cheat, you can take them to counseling, you can end the relationship before you cross those lines.” – Dr. Talal Alsaleem Seven milestones with clinical objectives and interventions Setting the stage for healing Getting the narrative of the affair Acknowledging the impact of the affair Choosing a path of recovery (individual or within the relationship) Creating an action plan Implementation Sustainability Infidelity can be the “best worst thing” that happens because you directly address what has happened What are some of the tactics for healing infidelity and rebuilding a relationship? “I don't think that transparency is only needed when somebody discovers infidelity. I really think in a healthy relationship, there shouldn't be any secrets.” – Dr. Talal Alsaleem Transparency or surveillance does not equate to trust (it’s a tool or a means to an end) How much needs to change and how much will the unfaithful will agree to When the unfaithful can’t cut out the person with whom they’ve had an affair Helping the betrayed partner to stop rumination Treatment teaming while working on affair recovery Informed consent and making sure there is full access to individual therapists Open lines of communication to make sure all therapists are on the same page EMDR and Brainspotting are recommended to address trauma response of the betrayed partner Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Talal’s website: YOU CAN SIGN UP FOR THE SIGNED BOOK DRAWINGS IN THE SHOW NOTES OVER ON MTSGPODCAST.COM! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Why Aren’t Men Becoming Therapists Anymore?
11/14/2022
Why Aren’t Men Becoming Therapists Anymore?
Why Aren’t Men Becoming Therapists Anymore? Curt and Katie chat about the lack of male therapists and the decreasing number of male students in the profession. We look at current statistics and reported experiences of men in the field. We also dig into what needs to change to balance gender representation and increase the number of men becoming therapists. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about male therapists Continuing forward within men’s health month, we are looking at the state of the profession for male therapists. Statistics on men in the mental health profession Depending on license type, mental health professionals are between 60-90% female Men and women have fairly equal parity on compensation (especially when looking at similar roles) Men are less likely to seek out these jobs as the wages stagnate, the requirements become more onerous, and due to a lack of male representation and role models What needs to change to balance gender representation within the mental health field? “Men typically have privilege in other spaces… And yet I recognize in our field, that's not the case. And so, it's this weird, complex understanding of societal privilege, but not privilege within the field.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Understanding the difference between societal privilege versus professional privilege Identifying why the number of men is dramatically decreasing within graduate programs and all stages of licensure The impact of feminism on the conversations about the impact of white men on the field The perception of “male bashing” and the need to nurture male voices within the profession The challenge of identifying when men are being ignored or “soloed out” The problem of stereotyping, ignoring, or isolating male therapists and students Men being automatically pushed into leadership due to mentorship by male faculty and bias toward men as leaders How do we get more men into the mental health profession? “If we're identifying that men need to go and get mental health treatment, and there's no men to get it from, this then has the potential for reaching critical failure as a profession in being able to provide services.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Reaching critical failure in trying to provide services to men (if men no longer enter the profession) Recruitment strategies for graduate programs Making the profession sustainable for all individuals Pushing back against wage stagnation due to feminization of the profession Looking at retention and commitment for male therapists The importance of representation across the mental health profession Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Number of women vs men in grad programs: Men’s experiences in the field: Faculty experiences of teaching male students: Recruiting men into the field: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Why Men Don’t Stay in Therapy
11/07/2022
Why Men Don’t Stay in Therapy
Why Men Don’t Stay in Therapy Curt and Katie chat about men’s mental health. We look at why men typically go to therapy, their experiences while in therapy, what therapists get wrong when working with men, and how therapists better support the needs of men seeking mental health treatment. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about men seeking therapy For Men’s Health Awareness month, we want to explore men seeking mental health services. Why do men typically go to therapy? Others telling men to go to therapy Career or relationship issues Depression, which looks like irritability and hostility (externalized behaviors) What is the experience of men in therapy? “Some of this research [on men accessing mental healthcare] shows that while men are increasing in the numbers presenting for mental health treatment, they tend to drop out earlier than women and they tend to drop out at a lot faster rate than women. So that to me says that we as a field are doing something wrong, that we are not able to meet the needs of men. All of that great advice out of ‘hey, go and seek mental health treatment,’ is falling on people who are trying it out and finding bad experiences with it. “– Curt Widhalm, LMFT Therapy seems to try to get men to emote like women Invalidating masculine presentations and behaviors Equating masculinity with toxic masculinity Not feeling safe to express emotions beyond confidence, neutrality, or anger How can therapists better serve men seeking therapy? Understanding and honoring a range of masculinities (even within the same client) Helping men to broaden their range of emotional expression Problem-solving, solution-focused can be helpful for men who want to have a clearly defined goal to work toward Collaboratively creating treatment goals Identity work that supports self-definition of masculinity What can therapists get wrong when working with men in therapy? “There is such a broad array of understandings at this point of what masculinity and what ‘real men do’ that I think we need to be aware that whether it's traditional gender roles, or more current… there's some need for an understanding of where your client sits.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Framing masculinity and toxic masculinity solely as “bad” Not digging more deeply into individual development around masculinity Taking offense at their client’s gender identity or ignoring their own bias around “traditional gender roles” How therapists characterize men’s presenting problems (assigning blame, like depression being seen as anger or hostility, men being described as violent rather than traumatized) Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What is Play Therapy?: An Interview with Ofra Obejas, LCSW
10/31/2022
What is Play Therapy?: An Interview with Ofra Obejas, LCSW
What is Play Therapy?: An Interview with Ofra Obejas, LCSW Curt and Katie interview Ofra Obejas, LCSW, RPT-S, about working with children in therapy. We look at what therapists often get wrong, important factors to understand, specialized training required (including play therapy), and what you actually do in therapy session with children. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Ofra Obejas, LCSW, Registered Play Therapist - Supervisor Ofra Obejas, Registered Play Therapist - Supervisor level, is a professional player. She works with elementary- to middle-school aged children. She’s been called by some of her clients a “kid grownup.” (That’s her rapper name.) She’s taught at the University of San Diego Play Therapy program and presents webinars and courses on clinical topics related to children’s issues. In this podcast episode, we talk about Play Therapy We reached out to our friend, Ofra Obejas to talk with us about how to work with kiddos and what additional training is needed to work effectively with children. What do therapists get wrong when working with children? Treating children like mini-adults Not understanding the skill involved in play therapy What are important factors for therapists to understand when working with children? “It’s more scary to the children when the adult is incongruent and not showing their true feelings. It's less scary to see somebody angry than it is to see somebody pretending that they're not angry, but they are.” – Ofra Obejas, LCSW Children have a different culture (i.e., the tooth fairy is real) The therapist’s role as translator for what children are saying Children will make you feel what they feel (e.g., powerlessness, never getting anything right) The importance of showing feelings to children as a therapist (versus remaining a blank slate) What do you do with children in therapy sessions? Psychodrama and re-enacting situations Therapists can use any theoretical orientation Ways to interact with the child Paying attention to transference and countertransference Case conceptualization, including family therapy and work with parents What specialized training is most effective for working with children? “So, what is the therapy on a bumper sticker? If you had to put it in three words, it's notice it, sit with it, and make meaning of it. Or in an experiential [play therapy] model, it's: you observe it, you name it, and then you model how to cope with it.” – Ofra Obejas, LCSW There are specialized protocols for working with children with many different orientations Identifying which orientation suits you How to understand what is being reenacted and how to respond: Notice it, sit with it, make meaning of it; Observe it, name it, model how to cope with it What boundaries should therapists set when working with children and families? Unit of treatment (family, individual, who was showing up to the session?) Treatment goals (what are we working on?) What children are allowed to do in the session Interactions with caregivers and the responsibilities caregivers have during sessions What does online therapy look like with children? The challenges with working with children online Online sand tray, online dollhouse, online puppet theater Creating a virtual play room New trainings for VR therapy for children Watching children play video games online How has the pandemic impacted children? This was dependent on how well parents were able to self-regulate and stay within the window of tolerance (was there someone who could help the child to regulate) Lack of socialization and difficulty in having conversations Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Have you spent countless hours trying to get your website just right and yet, it's not showing up on Google and it doesn't seem like anyone's able to find it? Simplified SEO Consulting has a unique solution. They've been training therapists to optimize their websites, so they show up better on Google for the past 4 years. But let's face it, with the busy schedules we all keep it can be hard to find the time to optimize your website even when you learn how. So, they are hosting a 16-day cruise in July 2023 going from LA to Hawaii and back. When you join them, you'll get intensive SEO education and coaching during the 10 days at sea. Most importantly, you'll have plenty of time to sit next to the pool and implement everything you've learned and then ask their team for feedback. Yes, it's the perfect excuse for a Hawaii vacation. But it's also a time to both learn about SEO and actually implement what you learn. The upcoming cruise is a unique opportunity to learn to optimize your own website, have time to practice what you learn and the ability to get feedback from leading SEO professionals in our field. To reserve your spot before it fills up, go to Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Ofra Obejas’ website: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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How Therapists Can Really Help Kids Who Are Being Bullied
10/24/2022
How Therapists Can Really Help Kids Who Are Being Bullied
How Therapists Can Really Help Kids Who Are Being Bullied Curt and Katie chat about how therapists can support the targets of bullying. We explore what bullying actually is as well as what can be problematic in how it is typically addressed. We also discuss individual therapy strategies for kids who have been bullied. Curt and Katie also debate about whether the targets of bullying should change what makes them different to avoid getting bullied. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about how therapists can effectively treat bullying in therapy For Bullying Prevention month, we decided to dig into what bullying actually is and how therapists can treat bullying in therapy. What is bullying actually? The definition of bullying and how it is described currently (i.e., teasing versus bullying) Target and aggressor (versus victim and bully) as more appropriate language to describe participants Three essential elements of bullying: ongoing behavior, behavior is intended to be harmful, and there is a power differential between the aggressor and the target The relevance of impact versus intention of behavior Numerous types of power imbalances that can be present Types: physical, verbal, social or covert, cyber bullying What is problematic in how bullying is typically addressed? “Aggressors have a more robust set of social skills. And it's being able to adapt more quickly to things that are socially changing, even in the moment. This also plays a role in the reporting on the people teasing them because the more socially adept kids are then better able to convince the adults around them. Oh, no, we were just playing. We were teasing back and forth.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Most bullying is not observed by adults Not moving past holding space Looking toward community interventions rather than individual Lack of understanding of what cyber bullying actually looks like (when you haven’t grown up as a digital native) Aggressors have a more robust set of social skills Strategies for kids who have been bullied “I think we also need to recognize that if we go too far in telling people not to be different, we are invalidating their identity. And if we don't go far enough, and we don't help them to be part of society, they may continue to get really harshly bullied, but either one is damaging.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Beyond ignoring (especially if there is an audience) Understanding what the target’s response means to the aggressor Not playing into what the aggressor is doing, escalating to forceful “stop,” seeking out a trusted adult (or multiple adults) Debate on whether a target should shift their behavior and change what makes them different Building confidence versus masking Safety now versus identity development Practicing responses to potential bullying statements in session Including targets in the planning process with adults The challenges with mediation within school settings (and the importance of follow up) Systemic or prevention programs that also address bystanders Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Have you spent countless hours trying to get your website just right and yet, it's not showing up on Google and it doesn't seem like anyone's able to find it? Simplified SEO Consulting has a unique solution. They've been training therapists to optimize their websites, so they show up better on Google for the past 4 years. But let's face it, with the busy schedules we all keep it can be hard to find the time to optimize your website even when you learn how. So, they are hosting a 16 day cruise in July 2023 going from LA to Hawaii and back. When you join them, you'll get intensive SEO education and coaching during the 10 days at sea. Most importantly, you'll have plenty of time to sit next to the pool and implement everything you've learned and then ask their team for feedback. Yes, it's the perfect excuse for a Hawaii vacation. But it's also a time to both learn about SEO and actually implement what you learn. The upcoming cruise is a unique opportunity to learn to optimize your own website, have time to practice what you learn and the ability to get feedback from leading SEO professionals in our field. To reserve your spot before it fills up, go to Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Article: Article: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Modern Therapists Should Know About Law Enforcement Mental Health: An Interview with Cyndi Doyle, LPC
10/17/2022
What Modern Therapists Should Know About Law Enforcement Mental Health: An Interview with Cyndi Doyle, LPC
What Modern Therapists Should Know About Law Enforcement Mental Health: An Interview with Cyndi Doyle, LPC Curt and Katie interview Cyndi Doyle on the mental health of law enforcement officers. We look at how being a cop impacts their mental health as well as specific incidents and the chronic desensitization. We also explore the feelings in law enforcement related to calls to defund the police and how society views the cops. Content warning: potentially traumatic incidents (violence, death) Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Cyndi Doyle, LPC Cyndi Doyle is a Licensed Professional Counselor, group practice co-owner, founder of Code4Couples®, podcaster, and author of Hold the Line: The Essential Guide to Protecting Your Law Enforcement Relationship. She has spoken nationally and internationally including at the International Association of Chiefs of Police Conferences (IACP), the FBI National Academy Association (FBINAA) Conference, keynoted at police spouse conferences throughout the country, and at trained various police departments. While much of her work focuses on first responders, Cyndi’s stories of embracing and wrestling with living her own bold and authentic life have resulted in her being a sought-after speaker for other mental health professionals. Her message of humanizing struggle, compassion, courage, and resilience has resulted in her speaking nationally and even keynoting at the 2020 Texas Counseling Association Professional Growth Conference. That same year, the American Counseling Association awarded her the Samuel Gladding Unsung Heroes Award for her work with first responders and contribution to the field of counseling. In this podcast episode, we talk about Law Enforcement Mental Health We reached out to our friend, Cyndi Doyle to explore a population of folks who we typically don’t think about as our patients: Law Enforcement Officers (LEO). What should modern therapists know about the mental health of Law Enforcement Officers and their families? “[Law Enforcement Officers] don't feel safe, not just their physical safety, but emotional safety. Many times, they don't feel supported by their communities. They don't feel supported by their departments, by their administration. …Would you really want to go to a job every day where you were potentially hated?” – Cyndi Doyle, LPC Different dynamics than typical couples The definition of cynicism How training impacts the mental health of officers Misinterpretation of control versus abuse Over diagnosis of trauma The negative impacts on police officers of the heightened scrutiny and criticism Hypervigilance and the impact of cameras on police offers performing their jobs The lack of support from the community (or the legislators or even law enforcement leadership) for officers Lack of compassion satisfaction, considering quitting their job, PTSD The impact on Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) families Exploration of the calls to defund the police and fund other resources “You'll see the cellphone videos or the videos out there of officers playing basketball or playing football or engaging with the community. And that's what community policing is. Community policing is the idea of I know my community well enough to know who potentially has a mental health situation that I need to be aware of.” – Cyndi Doyle, LPC Looking at the law enforcement response to defunding the police Exploring community policing and how that could help decrease abuses The cultural shifts and education happening at police departments The potential for mental health resources being added to policing When staffing is down, there is less time to recuperate and be prepared for work Mental Health Concerns that bring law enforcement officers and their families into therapy “Sometimes we assume, I think, as clinicians that like oh, that would be traumatic for me to see. When in actuality [cops] have seen it so often that there's a desensitization. Now, does the desensitization impact to them? Sure. It also doesn't mean that every situation is traumatic to them. That unfortunately, once you've seen something or done something time and time again, it cannot impact you the same way.” – Cyndi Doyle, LPC Stress, Anxiety, Depression, Addiction Relationships, family and couple Incident, critical incident, trauma Desensitization to violent incidents, injuries, and death The personalization in incidents that can cause more of a trauma response The insufficient training to build resilience for law enforcement officers The shifting culture that is now recognizing mental health as health, but the ongoing stigma for seeking support Cynicism, lack of empathy, and bias in Law Enforcement The mindset that narrows down to “everyone” behaves Working to make officers more human, so they can see more good in the world The importance of supporting the resilience and empathy within LEO (while recognizing that some of these things are not helpful “on the job”) Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Have you spent countless hours trying to get your website just right and yet, it's not showing up on Google and it doesn't seem like anyone's able to find it? Simplified SEO Consulting has a unique solution. They've been training therapists to optimize their websites, so they show up better on Google for the past 4 years. But let's face it, with the busy schedules we all keep it can be hard to find the time to optimize your website even when you learn how. So, they are hosting a 16-day cruise in July 2023 going from LA to Hawaii and back. When you join them, you'll get intensive SEO education and coaching during the 10 days at sea. Most importantly, you'll have plenty of time to sit next to the pool and implement everything you've learned and then ask their team for feedback. Yes, it's the perfect excuse for a Hawaii vacation. But it's also a time to both learn about SEO and actually implement what you learn. The upcoming cruise is a unique opportunity to learn to optimize your own website, have time to practice what you learn and the ability to get feedback from leading SEO professionals in our field. To reserve your spot before it fills up, go to Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Social media: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Medical Assistance in Death (MAiD) in Canada: Mental Illness and Assisted Suicide
10/10/2022
Medical Assistance in Death (MAiD) in Canada: Mental Illness and Assisted Suicide
Medical Assistance in Death (MAiD) in Canada: Mental Illness and Assisted Suicide Curt and Katie chat about assisted suicide related to an upcoming expansion of the MAiD laws in Canada to include mental illness. We discuss what these laws seems to say as well as how they might impact patients, medical providers, and therapists. We explore the moral and ethical questions as well as what other countries have done to put in further safeguards to protect patients and doctors. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about the expansion of Medical Assistance in Death laws in Canada We have been watching the MAiD laws in Canada that are soon going to include assistance in death for folks with mental illness. We talk about the law and the concerns we have related to the safeguards (or lack of safeguards). What are the updates coming to the Medical Assistance in Death laws in Canada? With the approval of 2 medical professionals and a 24-month waiting period (for psychological illness), individuals can get medication or an injection from a medical provider to end their lives Requirements for application include chronic, “grievous and irremediable” conditions Information on requirements are here: The differences in laws in other countries that seem to have more safeguards in place What are the moral and ethical questions facing medical and mental health providers? “Do we have the right – the moral right – as therapists, mental health professionals of any sort of background or license, to tell clients that they must live or that it is okay for them to end their life?” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT What responsibilities do mental health providers have to their clients related to end of life? Who will be negatively impacted versus who will be positively impacted? Who would qualify and who would seek out assistance in dying? “I'm not worried that someone that's a little depressed is going to decide they want to die by suicide… I think it's more that there are going to be folks [diagnosed with serious mental illness who are receiving insufficient mental health care] … who really don't feel like they have options (and maybe they don't) and they choose to die by suicide versus advocating for stronger treatment.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT What is mental illness? Is it only what is in the ICD or DSM? What are the impacts of these laws on physicians? Concerns raised by First Nations groups in Canada Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Have you spent countless hours trying to get your website just right and yet, it's not showing up on Google and it doesn't seem like anyone's able to find it? Simplified SEO Consulting has a unique solution. They've been training therapists to optimize their websites, so they show up better on Google for the past 4 years. But let's face it, with the busy schedules we all keep it can be hard to find the time to optimize your website even when you learn how. So, they are hosting a 16 day cruise in July 2023 going from LA to Hawaii and back. When you join them, you'll get intensive SEO education and coaching during the 10 days at sea. Most importantly, you'll have plenty of time to sit next to the pool and implement everything you've learned and then ask their team for feedback. Yes, it's the perfect excuse for a Hawaii vacation. But it's also a time to both learn about SEO and actually implement what you learn. The upcoming cruise is a unique opportunity to learn to optimize your own website, have time to practice what you learn and the ability to get feedback from leading SEO professionals in our field. To reserve your spot before it fills up, go to Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Part 1: Part 2: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Therapists Should Actually Do for Suicidal Clients: Assessment, safety planning, and least intrusive intervention
10/03/2022
What Therapists Should Actually Do for Suicidal Clients: Assessment, safety planning, and least intrusive intervention
What Therapists Should Actually Do for Suicidal Clients: Assessment, safety planning, and least intrusive intervention Curt and Katie chat about suicide assessment, safety planning, and how to keep clients out of the hospital. We reviewed the Integrated Motivational Volitional Model for Suicide, we talked about what therapists should be assessing for in every session, what strong assessment looks like (and suggested suicide assessment protocols), and why the least restrictive environment is so important when you are designing interventions and safety planning. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about suicide assessment, safety planning, and intervention We continue our conversation on suicide, progressing from risk factors (from last week’s episode) to how to assess and safety plan with the least intrusive interventions at the earliest stages. Review of the Suicide Model: Integrated Motivational Volitional Model by O’Connor and Kirtley Continued to review the IMV model (graphic in the show notes at mtsgpodcast.com) What should therapists assess for in every session, related to suicide? “When clinicians are burnt out, when we have caseloads that are too big, when we aren't taking care of ourselves, we tend to [think], “Okay, this client is at a six, they can live at a six for a while,” which is absolutely true. And if they can [live with this level of suicidality], and they have the good factors that allow them to live there – great. It's just how close are they to that 7, 8, 9?” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Moderating motivational factors, which move clients from passive to more active suicidality (or the reverse) Looking at what is keeping someone from being at risk for suicide (protective factors) The importance of knowing our clients well before they move into the volitional phase Understanding the clinician factors and putting structure around assessment Assessment for Suicide “Assessment is intervention.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT SAMHSA’s GATE protocol Gather information using a structured assessment tool (Columbia Scale, LRAMP) Looking at intention, means, plan as well as risk and protective factors Moving into a safety plan The importance of recognizing the human during the assessment (versus focusing only on the protocol or your liability) Seeking supervision or consultation – don’t do this alone The importance of using the least restrictive intervention for suicide “There is a rupture in the therapeutic relationship when you are sending your client or facilitating a hospitalization against their will. It can save their lives …but that may not always be the case.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT The idea of “responsible” action The range of options for keeping a client safe Having a conversation with the client on how to avoid attempting suicide The potential impacts of hospitalization, including trauma The danger of hospitalizing someone who does not need this level of intervention Additional intervention between sessions The practicalities to set up your schedule and your practice to support your clients and your self Additional risk factors (transition phases between providers) Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Have you spent countless hours trying to get your website just right and yet, it's not showing up on Google and it doesn't seem like anyone's able to find it? Simplified SEO Consulting has a unique solution. They've been training therapists to optimize their websites, so they show up better on Google for the past 4 years. But let's face it, with the busy schedules we all keep it can be hard to find the time to optimize your website even when you learn how. So, they are hosting a 16 day cruise in July 2023 going from LA to Hawaii and back. When you join them, you'll get intensive SEO education and coaching during the 10 days at sea. Most importantly, you'll have plenty of time to sit next to the pool and implement everything you've learned and then ask their team for feedback. Yes, it's the perfect excuse for a Hawaii vacation. But it's also a time to both learn about SEO and actually implement what you learn. The upcoming cruise is a unique opportunity to learn to optimize your own website, have time to practice what you learn and the ability to get feedback from leading SEO professionals in our field. To reserve your spot before it fills up, go to Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! References mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Carmel, A., Templeton, E., Sorenson, S. M., & Logvinenko, E. (2018). Using the Linehan Risk Assessment and Management Protocol with a chronically suicidal patient: A case report. Cognitive and Behavioral Practice, 25(4), 449-459. Goldman-Mellor S, Olfson M, Lidon-Moyano C, Schoenbaum M. Association of suicide and other mortality with emergency department presentation. JAMA Netw Open. 2019; 2(12):e1917571. Interian, A., Chesin, M., Kline, A., Miller, R., St. Hill, L., Latorre, M., ... & Stanley, B. (2018). Use of the Columbia-Suicide Severity Rating Scale (C-SSRS) to classify suicidal behaviors. Archives of suicide research, 22(2), 278-294. Linehan, M. M., Comtois, K. A., & Ward-Ciesielski, E. F. (2012). Assessing and managing risk with suicidal individuals. Cognitive and Behavioral Practice, 19(2), 218-232. Pinals, D. A. (2019). Liability and patient suicide. Focus, 17(4), 349-354. Posner, K., Brent, D., Lucas, C., Gould, M., Stanley, B., Brown, G., ... & Mann, J. (2008). Columbia-suicide severity rating scale (C-SSRS). New York, NY: Columbia University Medical Center, 10. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (US); (2009. Addressing Suicidal Thoughts And Behaviors in Substance Abuse Treatment [Internet]. Rockville (MD): (Treatment Improvement Protocol (TIP) Series, No. 50.) Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64022/ *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Part 1: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Risk Factors for Suicide: What therapists should know when treating teens and adults
09/26/2022
Risk Factors for Suicide: What therapists should know when treating teens and adults
Risk Factors for Suicide: What therapists should know when treating teens and adults Curt and Katie chat about suicide risk factors. Suicide rates have been increasing across the nation and there is an increasing need for the mental health workforce to be prepared to assess and intervene with clients of all ages. We take an in-depth look at the risk and protective factors associated with suicidal ideology and behaviors in both teens and adults. We also lay the beginning foundations of a suicide model to help clinicians better understand and intervene with clients exhibiting suicidal thoughts. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we explore what makes someone more likely to attempt suicide We’ve talked frequently about suicide, but thought it would be important, especially during Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, to go more deeply into the risk factors that make someone more likely to attempt and complete suicide. What are the highest risk factors for suicide? “Anxiety Sensitivity… the fear of the feelings of being anxious… is even more so correlated with suicidal ideation and suicide attempts than depression is.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Defining acute, active suicidality (versus passive or chronic suicidality or non-suicidal self-Injury) Going beyond the list of risk factors to how big of a risk each factor is for attempting or completing suicide Exploring how impactful a previous attempt is on whether someone is likely to attempt of complete suicide The importance of getting a complete history of suicidality and suicide attempts at intake The impact of family members who have attempted or died by suicide Alcohol and other substance use and abuse as an additive risk factor Cooccurring mental disorders (eating disorders, psychosis and serious mental illness, depression, anxiety and anxiety sensitivity, personality disorders) Child abuse history, especially folks with a history of sexual abuse history Life transitions, especially unplanned and sudden life transitions Owning a firearm makes you 50 times more likely to die by suicide Racial differences in who is more likely to attempt or complete suicide Living at a high elevation What are additional risk factors for suicide specific to teens? Early onset of mental illness Environmental factors Exposure to other suicides (social media, contagion) Not being able to identify other options Seeking control over their lives and lacking impulse control leading to suicide attempts The importance of communication and the potential for a lack of communication Bullying and lack of social support, without a way to escape due to social media and cell phones What are protective factors when assessing for suicidality? “Just because protective factors are present doesn't mean that they balance out risk factors [for suicide].”– Curt Widhalm, LMFT Reasons for living, responsibility to others Spirituality or attending a place of worship that teaches against suicide Where you live based on cultural or societal factors Having a children or child-rearing responsibilities, intact marriage Strong social support, employment Relationship with a therapist Suicide Model: Integrated Motivational Volitional Model by O’Connor and Kirtley Reviewing the model shown in the graphic in the show notes at mtsgpodcast.com Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! References mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Bodell, L. P., Cheng, Y., & Wildes, J. E. (2019). Psychological Impairment as a Predictor of Suicide Ideation in Individuals with Anorexia Nervosa. Suicide & life-threatening behavior, 49(2), 520–528. Borges, G., Bagge, C. L., Cherpitel, C. J., Conner, K. R., Orozco, R., & Rossow, I. (2017). A meta-analysis of acute use of alcohol and the risk of suicide attempt. Psychological medicine, 47(5), 949–957. Bostwick, C. Pabbati, J. Geske, A. McKean (2016) Suicide Attempt as a Risk Factor for Completed Suicide: Even More Lethal Than We Knew Am. J. Psychiatry, 173 (11), pp. 1094-1100, 10.1176/appi.ajp.2016.15070854 Brådvik, L. Suicide risk and mental disorders. Int. J. Environ. Res. Public Health 2018, 15, 2028 Campisi, S.C., Carducci, B., Akseer, N. et al. (2020) Suicidal behaviours among adolescents from 90 countries: a pooled analysis of the global school-based student health survey. BMC Public Health 20, 1102. Doyle, M., While, D., Mok, P.L.H. et al. Suicide risk in primary care patients diagnosed with a personality disorder: a nested case control study. BMC Fam Pract 17, 106 (2016). Martin, M.S., Dykxhoorn, J., Afifi, T.O. et al. (2016) Child abuse and the prevalence of suicide attempts among those reporting suicide ideation. Soc Psychiatry Psychiatr Epidemiol 51, 1477–1484. O'Connor RC, Kirtley OJ. The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour. Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2018;373 Stanley, I. H., Boffa, J. W., Rogers, M. L., Hom, M. A., Albanese, B. J., Chu, C., Capron, D. W., Schmidt, N. B., & Joiner, T. E. (2018). Anxiety sensitivity and suicidal ideation/suicide risk: A meta-analysis. Journal of consulting and clinical psychology, 86(11), 946–960. Twenge, J. M., Cooper, A. B., Joiner, T. E., Duffy, M. E., & Binau, S. G. (2019, March 14). Age, Period, and Cohort Trends in Mood Disorder Indicators and Suicide-Related Outcomes in a Nationally Representative Dataset, 2005–2017. Journal of Abnormal Psychology. Advance online publication. *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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How Therapists Can Manage a Sedentary Job: An interview with Celina Caovan, DPT
09/19/2022
How Therapists Can Manage a Sedentary Job: An interview with Celina Caovan, DPT
How Therapists Can Manage a Sedentary Job: An interview with Celina Caovan, DPT Curt and Katie interview Celina Caovan about physical self-care for therapists. We talk about how to mitigate the impacts of a sedentary job as well as the benefits of physical therapy and consistent physical activity. We also look into what physical therapy is, how clients can advocate for it, and how therapists might collaborate to support the physical and mental health of their patients. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Celina Caovan, DPT Celina Caovan received both her undergraduate degree and Doctorate of Physical Therapy degree from the University of Southern California. She has been practicing in an outpatient orthopedic setting in the South Bay in California for the last two years and is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. In this podcast episode, we talk about how therapists can take care of their bodies while working in a sedentary job Many therapist friends of ours have described low back pain and challenges in maintaining physical health when much of the work we do is while sitting. What should therapists know about physical activity and physical therapy? “Physical therapists are trained movement experts… we can diagnose, we can treat using hands on skills, patient education, and then we prescribe individual exercise for a bunch of different injuries, the ultimate goal being to improve the way someone moves and emphasize injury prevention. And the cool thing about physical therapy: it can be an alternative to pain medication, in a society where they prescribe a lot of a lot of pain medication, and then surgery as well.” – Celina Caovan, DPT There are a number of subspecialties in physical therapy to support all different elements of improving movement The importance of moving outside of a sedentary job US Department of Health guidelines on activity levels What can therapists do to take care of themselves during the work week? Getting out of the chair, some chair exercises Stretching and gentle movements during the breaks between sessions No drastic differences in activity from the work week to the weekend (i.e., avoid weekend warrior behavior, especially when extremely sedentary during the week_ Slowly increase activity and gradually increase cardio or resistance training Stretching (static and dynamic), warming up, and cooling down How can therapists think about physical therapy for their clients? “Someone's physical and mental health – that’s interconnected… that mind body connection. And I think this would be a really great opportunity for us to create this interdisciplinary relationship where we can approach it from a physical and mental standpoint.” – Celina Caovan, DPT Referrals and direct access to physical therapy Psychoeducation and support for advocacy to obtain physical therapy Chiropractors versus physical therapists How physical and mental health therapists can collaborate to support patients Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Reach out to Celina Caovan, DPT: celinaDPT at gmail.com Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: , Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Therapists on the Hostage Negotiation Team and Supporting Police Work: An interview with Dr. Andy Young
09/12/2022
Therapists on the Hostage Negotiation Team and Supporting Police Work: An interview with Dr. Andy Young
Therapists on the Hostage Negotiation Team and Supporting Police Work: An interview with Dr. Andy Young Curt and Katie interview Andy Young about hostage (crisis) negotiation and his work with SWAT and crisis negotiation in Lubbock, TX. Content warning: discussion of violence, suicide, and homicide. We talk about what therapists can do within police departments, the interplay between mental health and law enforcement, what that work looks like – especially when involved in crisis negotiation, and skills therapists need when working in these settings. We also look at trauma response and how it is handled when things go south. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Dr. Andy Young Dr. Andy Young has been a Professor of Psychology and Counseling at Lubbock Christian University since 1996 and a negotiator and psychological consultant with the Lubbock Police Department’s SWAT team since 2000. He also heads LPD’s Victim Services Unit and is the director of the department’s Critical Incident Stress Management Team. He has been on the negotiating team at the Lubbock County Sheriff’s Office since 2008 and is on the team at the Texas Department of Public Safety (Texas Rangers, Special Operations, Region 5). He is the author of, “Fight or Flight: Negotiating Crisis on the Frontline” and “When Every Word Counts: An Insider’s View of Crisis Negotiations.” He was recently added as a third author for the 6th Edition of “Crisis Negotiations: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections”. In this podcast episode, we talk about the role therapists can play in crisis negotiation There have been many calls to defund the police and create roles for mental health professionals in law enforcement. Dr. Andy Young has already been doing this for 20 years. We talked with him about what that experience looks like. What can therapists do for law enforcement? Crisis counseling Hostage or Crisis Negotiation support (advising on the negotiation) Psychiatric consultation Predicting violence or suicide, assessing subjects’ mental health What is the interplay between mental health and law enforcement? Police officers get 40 hours of active listening and mental health Officers started out a bit stand-offish, reported increased mental load due to needing to protect mental health professionals at the scene Finding value in taking mental health out of scope of law enforcement There is a huge importance in developing relationship with the officers Specialized training needed that can support integrating mental health providers into law enforcement teams What does work look like for therapists in law enforcement and crisis negotiation? Coaching on communication Assessing the situation and the subject Strategizing interventions to de-escalate the situation Provide context and reassurance to law enforcement professionals Hostage Negotiation calls are typically once to twice a month (and not every month). There are successful outcomes 97% of the time How do these law enforcement and mental health providers handle things when they go south? “There's me and other people like me – therapists who understand the law enforcement culture, and even are trusted by the law enforcement culture – where officers will reach out for additional assistance if they believe that they need it [after a traumatic incident]. And of course, me being around just walking through the halls of the police department, inevitably, somebody will say, 'Hey, can I talk to you for a minute?' and then it gets personal”. – Dr. Andy Young Crisis support Critical Incident Stress Management Mental health providers who are accepted within the law enforcement culture The political, investigative and personal elements of a lethal force incident Processing and debriefing within the team What skills should therapists have to work with law enforcement and hostage negotiation? “People get to make decisions for themselves. And we might be able to coach people on how to land the airplane, but they get to land the airplane themselves. And in my office, that's one thing. But out on the street where there's guns or elevated positions that we can jump off of or innocent people that we can kill. It's the same principle, but at its extreme, and it really tests a person about being able to apply that to yourself and your circumstances.” – Dr. Andy Young Pragmatic and understanding the situation you’re in Practical, knowing your own limits Ability to manage emotional situations calmly Navigating the extreme stakes out in the streets Understanding law enforcement The benefit of having a mental health provider on a hostage negotiation team Training the team on mental health concerns Improving “batting average” on successful outcomes The importance of a well-trained team Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Why Therapists Shouldn’t Be Taught Business in Grad School
09/05/2022
Why Therapists Shouldn’t Be Taught Business in Grad School
Why Therapists Shouldn’t Be Taught Business in Grad School Curt and Katie debate whether graduate school programs for therapists should include business education. We look at the pros and cons for including business education for students, specifically identifying a mismatched developmental level, bloated curriculums, and underutilized career resources. We also look at the responsibility graduate schools have to their students to be employable or to be able to create a sustainable business. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about whether clinical grad programs should include business education We have seen marketing that highlights that business isn’t taught in grad school (and have done a lot of it ourselves). We discuss whether it actually should be included. What is already included in grad school for therapists? A large number of clinical courses required for graduation Career centers and other business resources may be available, but not used What career or business resources should therapists get through graduate school? Career centers with up-to-date relevant employment resources Potentially an optional class or workshop for how to run a business Why shouldn’t business education be added to clinical programs? “The timing of it just isn't right. Like, yeah, these are ideas that can be introduced, but the practicalities of it, in my experience, just aren't developmentally where a lot of grad students are… I don't think that [teaching someone to run a business] at a developmental time when people aren't capable for it or aren't ready for it – or legally not allowed to put those things in place – it just ends up being so far off that it's not a practical sort of training thing.” – Curt Widhalm Accreditation bodies don’t access for employability, so programs won’t focus their attention The increasing number of credits required to become a therapist Developmentally inappropriate timing for what therapists are able to do when they graduate What would business education look like if it were included in graduate programs? “I'm not ready to let the grad schools off the hook for their responsibility to students. I feel like they are responsible to students to adequately prepare them for the job.” – Katie Vernoy Potentially lackluster participation due to overwhelm The importance of introducing what clinicians will actually face Seminar versus a full course Orientation to job options and business basics Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! by Dr. Ben Caldwell Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Goes in Your Notes? Interstate therapy practice and documentation for clients considering abortion or gender affirming care
08/29/2022
What Goes in Your Notes? Interstate therapy practice and documentation for clients considering abortion or gender affirming care
What Goes in Your Notes? Interstate therapy practice and documentation for clients considering abortion or gender affirming care Curt and Katie chat about documentation and practice questions related to abortion or gender affirming care when providing therapy to folks in states where these types of medical care are banned or will be banned soon. We look at medical documentation privacy concerns (related to HIPAA and the 21st Century Cures Act), how therapists avoid “aiding and abetting” a client to get an abortion, what to include in your notes, and special considerations related to duty to warn and child abuse reporting. This is a law and ethics continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we explore post-Roe documentation for therapists We’ve heard a lot of questions about what therapists should do now that Roe has been overturned. We decided to dig into practice and documentation guidelines to help modern therapists navigate the changing times. Medical documentation privacy concerns with interstate practice and the new abortion bans “Your records aren't as private as you think that they are.” - Curt Widhalm, LMFT HIPAA and the 21st Century Cures Act The impact on clients who move from safe haven states to states with abortion bans The impact of the Counseling Compact (and similar mental health compacts) and how many participating states have trigger laws to ban or limit abortion Paying attention to jurisdictional differences and where the client lives Who qualifies as a HIPAA covered entity? Psychotherapy (Process) Notes versus Progress Notes Psychotherapy notes are not defined the same and/or protected in every state The impact of civil law suits on confidentiality of process notes The huge challenge of information blocking and who may pass along your treatment information Talk to an attorney or your professional organization when subpoenaed How do you avoid “aiding and abetting” a client to get an abortion during mental health treatment? Processing feelings and helping client to make their own decisions Aiding and abetting can include telling them where to go, encouraging them to get an abortion, or providing practical support (like money or a ride) How to provide resources without aiding and abetting Self-empowerment and clients making their own decisions Liability and risk in practice (check with your malpractice insurance) Whether/how you let your clients know where you stand on the overturn of Roe v Wade What do you include in your notes when talking about abortion and gender affirming care? “You need to give meaningful consideration to what goes in [the mental health] record and you also want to be clear in what you're talking about with your clients. So, that way you're not unintentionally aiding and abetting a client who's living in one of these states where an abortion ban is currently in place.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT What is relevant to your treatment goals? Documenting progress toward treatment goals Creating a policy related to medical decision-making Phrases that you can use to briefly describe what is happening in session How much to document and the recommendation to be less specific in progress notes when discussing medical decisions The special considerations related to duty to warn and child abuse reporting when talking about abortion and gender affirming care No case law to guide us here The difference between permissive versus required reporting Vast differences across the states with all of the different pieces HIPAA says that we should not report, but we will be impacted by state laws Recommendations to pay attention to what is happening in the states where you practice and to identify advocacy opportunities to protect information, safe haven laws Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Additional references mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Holloway, J.D. (2003). More protections for patients and psychologists under HIPAA. American Psychological Association. Stranger, K. (2020). HIPAA, Psychotherapy Notes, and Other Mental Health Records. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (2013). Summary of the HIPAA Privacy Rule. Zubrzycki, C. (2022) Abortion’s Interoperability Trap: How the Law of Medical Records Will Facilitate Interstate Persecution of Contested Medical Procedures, and What to Do about It. Yale Law Journal Forum, Forthcoming, *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Speaking Up for Mental Health Awareness: An Interview with Metta World Peace
08/22/2022
Speaking Up for Mental Health Awareness: An Interview with Metta World Peace
Speaking Up for Mental Health Awareness: An Interview with Metta World Peace Curt and Katie interview Metta World Peace about his efforts toward mental health advocacy, awareness, and access. We explore what led him to speak up, the challenges he’s faced as a public figure, his solutions for prevention, and how his businesses and philanthropy support mental health. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Metta World Peace Metta World Peace played professional basketball for 19 years. He won the NBA World Championship with the LA Lakers in June 2010 and received the J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award – the NBA’s highest citizenship and community service honor – in April 2011. He was selected to the 2005-06 NBA’s All-Defensive Team, was voted by the media as 2003-04 NBA’s Defensive Player of the Year and was the only man with 271 steals in his first two seasons in the NBA, breaking Michael Jordan’s record. His autobiography, “No Malice: My Life in Basketball” was released in May 2018 with Triumph Publishing and a documentary on his life in basketball, “Ron Artest: The Quiet Storm” was released on Showtime in May 2019. World Peace is currently pursuing entrepreneurial projects including the XvsX Sports project he cofounded in 2017 and an NFT project, Meta Panda Club, to bring decentralized basketball community to the masses. World Peace is also known as a prominent mental health advocate, pop culture personality, philanthropist, and media favorite. He raffled off his 2010 NBA World Championship Ring with the proceeds going to his nonprofit, Xcel University (now known as Artest University). The online ring raffle raised more than $650,000. Funds were donated to nonprofits in 5 cities that provide mental health therapists and mental health services to their communities, and to provide scholarships to underprivileged youth in the New York City area. World Peace was part of the 13th season of ABC’s Dancing With The Stars, a contestant on CBS’s first edition of Celebrity Big Brother, as well as the CBS competition show, Beyond The Edge. He is active in entrepreneurial endeavors, serves as an advisor to several tech start ups, and seeks to help other basketball players who have aspirations for a pro career with his app and league, XvsX Sports. For more information, please visit , , and In this podcast episode, we interview Metta World Peace about.. Curt and Katie spent an afternoon chatting with Metta World Peace, exploring his work to reduce mental health stigma. We’re excited to share that conversation with you. Why did Metta World Peace start speaking about his mental health? “I've experienced so many things – you know you’re playing basketball [as a kid], and you got to duck under the bench, people shooting. Sometimes you got to go to the game with guns in your bag, you know, different things like that, to make sure everything's cool. And that's just that's just not life. Life is tag. Life is freeze tag. Life is… hopscotch when you're a child… life is learning. That's life. Kids should be outside playing in parks.” – Metta World Peace Metta shared his story growing up The Crack Epidemic and the impact on his neighborhood The challenges of incarceration, lack of education, and access to resources Building a shell to protect yourself on the streets What you learn and practice in the neighborhood he grew up in The role of history and the impact of slavery on mental health of generations of Black people The number of friends who are incarcerated The role of “chemical imbalance” in the mental health landscape and the family members who have dealt with more serious mental illness Metta’s desire to give back to the mental health community How Metta World Peace is working to solve the problems that lead to poor mental health The meaning of his name and why he changed it Coming together with all types of people Pushing back on separation and division or divisive statements No guns or drugs allowed in my neighborhood Challenging what has been defined as “life” in his neighborhood The lack of connecting resources (like parks) in all neighborhoods The importance of play and letting kids be kids The challenges that Metta World Peace faces in putting forward his message “I'm a colorful, I love comedy. I like to do silly stuff. It's just fun to me, honestly. But then people want to put me on television to do something silly. But when I want to do something meaningful, they don't want to do that programming... that's why I'm so vulnerable, honestly, because I don't know how else I'm going to get it out to the to the world.” – Metta World Peace Describing self as emotional and colorful Needing to boost his confidence Mental health stigma before his first disclosure (thanking his therapist in 2010) How people perceive Metta versus how he sees himself interacting in the world Metta World Peace’s vision for the future Everyone has access to mental healthcare Everyone has a chance to have a good life We try to understand each other and what motivates them, what they are going through People coming together to improve society Parenting and partnership training in schools Putting parks in every neighborhood so kids can play, connect, and be kids What Metta World Peace is doing now “Sometimes it's too much [speaking about mental health], you know, sometimes I'm too vulnerable, and it hurt me a lot. Because I'm telling people where I'm from, I tell people how I live.” – Metta World Peace After retirement, Metta is focusing on spending time with his children, partner Speaking up to address mental health disparities Sharing his story to shine a light on the challenges he has faced His desire to do something powerful to make a difference Partnering with OOTify to support mental health access Business endeavors to support philanthropy for mental health Supporting other businesses to be successful Artest Management Group: Embedding philanthropy into all of the businesses Metta World Peace supports XvsX Sports helping athletes to get discovered, compete, and coach Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Infant and Early Childhood Mental Health: An Interview with Dr. Barbara Stroud
08/15/2022
Infant and Early Childhood Mental Health: An Interview with Dr. Barbara Stroud
Infant and Early Childhood Mental Health: An Interview with Dr. Barbara Stroud Curt and Katie interview Dr. Barbara Stroud on infant and early childhood mental health. We explore what therapists need to know about working with very young children, including the latest brain science and the very earliest developmental stages. We talk about the importance of children being safe, seen, heard, and helped. We also look at the importance of culture and how to support under-resourced families. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Dr. Barbara Stroud Barbara Stroud, PhD, is a licensed psychologist with over three decades worth of culturally informed clinical practice in early childhood development and mental health. She is a founding organizer and the inaugural president (2017-2019) of the California Association for Infant Mental Health, a ZERO TO THREE Fellow, and holds prestigious endorsements as an Infant and Family Mental Health Specialist/Reflective Practice Facilitator Mentor. In 2018 Dr. Stroud was honored with the Bruce D. Perry Spirit of the Child Award. Embedded in all of her trainings and consultations are the activities of reflective practice, demonstrating cultural attunement, and holding a social justice lens in the work. Dr. Stroud’s book “How to Measure a Relationship” [published 2012] is improving infant mental health practices around the globe and is now available in Spanish. Her second book, an Amazon best seller, “Intentional Living: finding the inner peace to create successful relationships” walks the reader through a deeper understanding of how their brain influences relationships. Both volumes are currently available on Amazon. Additionally, Dr. Stroud is a contributing author to the text “Infant and early childhood mental health: Core concepts and clinical practice” edited by Kristie Brandt, Bruce Perry, Steve Seligman, & Ed Tronick. Dr. Stroud received her Ph.D. in Applied Developmental Psychology from Nova Southeastern University, and she has worked largely with children in urban communities with severe emotional disturbance. Dr. Stroud’s professional career path has allowed her to work across service delivery silos supporting professionals in mental health, early intervention (part c), child welfare, early care and education, family court staff, primary care, and other arenas. She is highly regarded and has been a key player in the inception and implementation of cutting-edge service delivery to children Prenatal to five and their families; her innovative approaches have won national awards. More specifically, Dr. Stroud is a former preschool director, a non-public school administrator, director of infant mental health services and agency training coordinator. She has held an adjunct faculty position at California State Long Beach and maintained a faculty position in the Infant-Parent Mental Health Fellowship for 12 years. Currently, Dr. Stroud’s primary focus is professional training and private consultation from an anti-racist lens, with a focus on social justice, in the field of infant mental health. Dr. Stroud remains steadfast in her mission to ‘changing the world – one relationship at a time’. In this podcast episode, we talk about mental health services for infants and young children Curt and Katie continue to identify gaps in typical therapist training. One such gap is working with children 0-5. We reached out to Dr. Barbara Stroud, expert in infant and early childhood to help us learn what therapists need to know about this age group. What is infant and early childhood mental health? “What I often say to parents and providers is, it's our job to be the bigger cortex for the dysregulated midbrain. So, your little kid is not bad, they're not misbehaving, their dysregulated midbrain is doing the best it can. And we have to step in and be the cortex that holds that dysregulation and nurtures them through this process.” – Dr. Barbara Stroud Looking at big feelings and social and emotional development The current brain science that is impacting infant and early childhood mental health How adults impact infant developing brains What are the basics that therapists should know when working with children under 5 years old? The importance of dyadic therapy Parent training Social emotional developmental stages The damage of punishment on the development of an authentic self What infants need to love themselves, have healthy development “Let me give you something that I give parents and I give childcare providers and I give therapists as a way of thinking about one simple thing you can do and always remember that will support your child's social emotional health: keep them safe, make them feel seen, heard, and helped.” – Dr. Barbara Stroud Infants want to be safe, seen, heard, and helped Co-regulation and holding the big feeling with the child The impacts of this work on adults Transgenerational work – we treat the parent in the way that we would like the parent to treat the child How to support parents in healing their own wounds Therapy Interventions for infants and children under five years old Play therapy is complex and advanced and requires training and supervision Before children can think symbolically or have words, play is not effective Attunement and attachment work The impact of the pandemic on social emotional development Developmental delays seen in research of kids related to the pandemic The way children can catch up developmentally The impact of parents’ stress responses on availability How the lack of interaction with age-mates impacts development The responses to stress based on these delays Cultural impacts on early childhood development Questions to ask about cultural and family traditions The stories to explore and the importance of stories and practices How to explore areas of inequity and disparities Understanding our power as professionals Interventions for families with very young children “We can take everyday tasks and turn them into not just nurturing moments, but therapeutic moments… take nurturing tasks that parents have to do already (it's already something they're going to do) and turn it into a therapeutic moment.” – Dr. Barbara Stroud Helping families to identify what they are able to do to make changes The importance of predictability for families with a lot of chaos How therapists without kids can work with parents How parenting is an individual journey The importance of loving kids and being emotionally available to kids Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Maslow Missed in his Hierarchy of Needs - The Native Self Actualization Model: An Interview with Dr. Sidney Stone Brown
08/08/2022
What Maslow Missed in his Hierarchy of Needs - The Native Self Actualization Model: An Interview with Dr. Sidney Stone Brown
What Maslow Missed in his Hierarchy of Needs - The Native Self Actualization Model: An Interview with Dr. Sidney Stone Brown Curt and Katie interview Dr. Sidney Stone Brown on the Native Self-Actualization Model. We look at Abraham Maslow’s work, which was created after spending time with the Blackfoot people as well as how his Hierarchy of Needs supports greed and capitalism. We also talk through indigenous wisdom and how Dr. Brown incorporated their lifestyle and teachings into her work on the Native Self-Actualization Model. She emphasizes the power of altruism, reciprocity, and working together collaboratively. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Dr. Sidney Stone Brown, LPC Sidney Stone Brown was born in Kalispell Montana, and is an enrolled member of the Blackfeet Indian Nation of Browning Montana. She was raised on / near her reservation until 1955, living in her great grandmother’s log house with her parents, great uncle, brother and older sisters. They had no running water or indoor toilets; the house was heated with oil and light by kerosene lanterns until 1950. Dr. Brown’s family relocated to Coos Bay Oregon when their reservation faced termination in 1955. Thereafter Dr. Brown attended west coast schools. She attended 30 different schools between first grade and graduation at Oregon State University in 1974. Dr. Brown worked her way through college and was employed by her tribe as an employment counselor, where she met a resident psychologist working at the tribal Hospital and became interested in Psychology. Near completion of her master’s program she contracted with 1) the University of Minnesota developing community action teams for the Red Cliff Reservation, 2) a Lakota CAP agency in Rapid City South Dakota acting alcohol program director and 3) the University of Utah (Montana Wyoming) Alcohol Counselor Trainer and 4) became permanent employment as director of NARA 1974. The program was originally funded at $81,000 and in ten years was 1.2 million. NARA (1981) won a national recognition award for program excellence and it was noted at the presentation in New Orleans that the model (Native Self Actualization) she developed was the most innovative cross-cultural model ever submitted to the National Council on Alcoholism since the awards began in 1946. She has served on many other non-profit boards, appointed a member of the (ADAMHA) Alcohol and Drug Abuse Mental Health Administration Minority Advisory Committee (1974-1976). She lobbied for Indian and minority services at the Oregon State Legislature subcommittees, and before the US Senate. she helped form the board and helped develop the certification criteria for NW Indian Alcohol Drug Counselor Certification Board. In 1989 she shifted her career emphasis from administration to clinical services receiving 3 years of clinical supervision at a community mental health center and a residential treatment center to obtain licensure (LPC and NCC-MAC). Later she was mentored to be a CQI coordinator when employed at a JCAHO certified facility in Newberg Oregon. The program won re-accreditation with accommodation the second year of my employment. She was admitted to the spiritual/psychology integration program at George Fox University George Fox for fall 2001. Her clinical work with Native people convinced her she had to understand the impact of religion abuse and abuse by clergy. She is committed and determined to fulfill her goals to mentor the next generation of minority students and contribute to the literature and research that supports good practices for Native Americans. In this podcast episode, we talk about The Native Self-Actualization Model Most of us learn Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, but did not hear the story about his time with the Blackfoot Tribe. There is more and more evidence that he took Native teachings and transformed it to match our individualistic, capitalistic society. We reached out to Dr. Brown to help us gather some of the history and the true wisdom about what actualization actually looks like. How has native teaching impacted psychology? Erickson and Jung studied with different tribes Maslow studied with the Blackfoot people before creating his Hierarchy of Needs Maslow did not publish or acknowledge the work of the Blackfoot tribe Maslow’s work was for corporations What did Maslow find when studying Native people? Most people were secure (versus the high percentage of folks in poverty on the East Coast) He moved from behaviorist to humanist Learned the way of life with the Blackfoot Tribe What is the Native Self-Actualization Model? “Our world is suffering, people are suffering, because as we grow, and as we live in this world, we see the disparities. And it was never meant that just a few could have extreme wealth, at the expense of everyone else. Every person has a place and a purpose. And security is inherent in indigenous communities.” – Dr. Sidney Stone Brown Inverted Lodge or Teepee (turning Maslow’s hierarchy of needs upside down) The inherent purpose or promise babies come into the world with The philosophy of Indigenous People The importance of culture and altruism “When I learned what the Blackfoot people were teaching [Abraham Maslow], I felt the world needed to know that we can look at this differently. Because right now that hierarchy of needs is causing harm. Just a few people being able to be actualized. And I would like to believe that everyone can be actualized.” – Dr. Sidney Stone Brown What has impacted Native mental health? Clement Bear Chief’s concept of the holes torn through Native communities The sexualization and objectification of Native women The need for protection people, earth, animals The story of the Blackfoot relationship with the buffalo The commonality of the indigenous experience Everything that was taken from Native people creating holes How to incorporate indigenous practices and teachings to support mental health treatment Important Takeaways “I also want to remind people that I'm doing this because Maslow didn't. I'm doing this because it's possible now. I don't think they would have listened to Maslow if he tried to explain what he learned from the Blackfoot people, so it's time and we need to help each other and teach each other.” – Dr. Sidney Stone Brown The importance of intergenerational knowledge It is essential that indigenous wisdom and way of life survive The power of altruism and reciprocity We all are human beings and need to take care of each other Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! To get the book now, contact Dr. Sidney Stone Brown: drstonebrown-at-gmail.com New Publisher for the Book Coming Soon! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Therapists Need to Know about Abortion and Termination for Medical Reasons: An Interview with Jane Armstrong
08/01/2022
What Therapists Need to Know about Abortion and Termination for Medical Reasons: An Interview with Jane Armstrong
What Therapists Need to Know about Abortion and Termination for Medical Reasons: An Interview with Jane Armstrong Curt and Katie interview Jane Armstrong, LCSW, a clinical social worker in Texas, about terminating a wanted pregnancy for medical reasons. We look at the impacts of the overturn of Roe v Wade on reproductive care. We also dig into what termination for medical reasons (TFMR) is, how society stigmatizes these parents, and what therapists can do to effectively support clients facing this decision and the outcome of TFMR. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Jane Armstrong, LCSW-S, PMH-C Jane is a termination for medical reasons (TFMR) mom, native Texan, & clinical social worker certified in perinatal mental health. Following the birth & death of her first child, Frankie, through TFMR, Jane opened Both/And Therapy, PLLC to provide individual therapy & support groups to other TFMR parents. These services aim to support clients through the unique barriers & grief of ending a wanted pregnancy, particularly in the state of Texas where such care is no longer accessible. She’s passionate about building community, eliminating shame, & honoring grief for TFMR families. In this podcast episode, we talk about Termination for Medical Reasons (TFMR) In the wake of Roe v. Wade being overturned, we reached out to Jane Armstrong, LCSW-S, PMH-C who specializes in TFMR and is based out of Texas, a state with some of the biggest barriers to this type of medical, reproductive care. What are the clinical impacts on individuals who are considering or who have had an abortion? Trauma related to pregnancy as well as abortion The differences between ending wanted and unwanted pregnancies The shame – societal and internalized What therapists can get wrong when interacting with the topic of abortion Unexamined bias related to abortion TFMR – is baby loss and TFMR parents are entitled to grief Disenfranchised grief and traumatic loss The impact of anti-abortion legislation on patients considering abortion and TFMR Lack of access to all types of medical care Logistics related to getting access to medical care The emotional impact of continuing to carry a pregnancy when it is known that the baby will die How late parents can find out about medical concerns that mean that TFMR is indicated The lack of time to make a decision What is Termination For Medical Reasons (TFMR)? “These are things [a health issue with the pregnant person or with the baby leading to TFMR] that may be fatal, it may not be. A lot of them you may not know, but you do know that there is the potential for tremendous suffering.” – Jane Armstrong, LCSW Terminating a pregnancy due to health issues with the pregnant person or with the baby For the pregnant person: fatal Hyperemesis Gravidarum, requirement for treatment, mental health conditions For the baby: 12 week genetic screenings or subsequent testing, scans, etc. can point out chromosomal abnormalities, neural tube deficits “In my own experience, we did do an amniocentesis, but we knew that we likely wouldn't get the results until after my pregnancy had ended, because it would be typically about two weeks, which would have pushed us over the limit in our state. So, there is a very loudly ticking clock over most of these parents on what should be – and is – the most important decision they've ever made. And it leaves very little room for compassion for the time these parents need to research and get second opinions and really understand what this diagnosis means.” – Jane Armstrong, LCSW How can therapists work with TFMR clients? The conflict between the laws and a clinician’s own ethics Make sure your clients know you will be a support resource to them The importance of the client being able to tell their story Recognizing that TFMR is typically not talked about and opening space for these clients Trauma, grief, loss – sitting with the client with their hard stuff Helping clients to make this impossible decision Affirming parenthood and the challenge of the decision Decision versus “choice” and the ways in which bias can enter the conversation about decision-making Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Jane on Instagram: Jane Armstrong, LCSW Statement from Planned Parenthood: Attributable to Dr. Meera Shah, Chief Medical Officer of Planned Parenthood Hudson Peconic & National Medical Spokesperson at PPFA The Supreme Court has taken away our constitutional right to abortion. Any person who believes in and values a person’s inherent right to control their own bodies, their lives, and their futures recognizes this decision for what it is: a disgrace to our society, to our health care system, and most importantly, to patients. This decision robs our right to control our bodies and personal health care decisions, giving it to lawmakers and leaving millions without access to safe, legal abortion. Overturning Roe means dozens of states could swiftly move to ban abortion — including 13 states with laws that will go into effect immediately or shortly thereafter. That’s half the country where people may no longer have power over their own bodies and their own lives. We know the harm that will come from this decision because we’ve seen it play out in Texas: People who do not have access to the financial resources and support they need to travel out of state are forced to carry pregnancies against their will, and some will seek abortion outside of the health care system. Where you live should not determine your ability to control your reproductive future. There’s no one way that a person feels emotionally before, during, or after having an abortion — their feelings are unique to them. But we know that being denied an abortion can cause physical . And we also know that being forced to continue an unintended pregnancy can cause financial, mental, and emotional . People from Black, Latino, Indigenous, LGBTQ+, and other communities historically targeted by racism, bias, and discrimination will disproportionately feel the effects of abortion bans and restrictions. This might feel like a scary and confusing time. But while we are devastated, we are not deterred. Abortion is health care, and as the nation’s leading provider of sexual and reproductive health care for all, Planned Parenthood is committed to meeting the health care needs of as many people as possible. This is a crisis moment for abortion access. Organizers, advocates, providers, and patients need supporters and fellow providers across broad disciplines to channel outrage into action and send a clear message: We won’t back down. Here are some specific ways listeners can take action in the fight to protect our right to control our own bodies: a Decision Day Mobilization by visiting and clicking “events” to Planned Parenthood organizations and abortion funds, and why you fight for abortion access with #BansOffOurBodies and #WhateverTheReason by visiting and clicking “get involved”, then “share your story” Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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Therapy for Executives and Emerging Leaders
07/25/2022
Therapy for Executives and Emerging Leaders
Therapy for Executives and Emerging Leaders Curt and Katie chat about how therapists can support leaders. We look at optimal leadership, leadership identity development, barriers for emerging leaders, challenges that executives face, and how therapists can support these leaders. We explore specific interventions and career assessment questions. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we explore how therapists can help leaders During times of turmoil - like a global pandemic, an unstable economy, and social unrest - we want to be able to rely on our leaders to help us weather the storm. We look to our employers, our legislators, and our community leaders to solve problems and remain calm. But who supports our leaders? It’s important for therapists to understand leadership and the unique challenges that leaders face, so they can help. Further, therapists must be available to provide support to emerging leaders who are coming from much more diverse backgrounds and perspectives who may need help navigating a system that doesn’t always accept them or align with their lived experiences. We talk about leader identity development and how leaders develop over time. We look at common barriers and challenges for leaders at all stages of development as well as suggested interventions to address these needs. What do therapists get wrong when working with leaders? “We may be hindering folks that we don't see as leaders based on what we know about them: either their identity and the kind of the societal bias, or based on what we know about how much they're struggling. And so, we won't be able to help these folks move into these positions of leadership and help them elevate themselves in that way.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Therapists don’t include career assessments and leadership assessment Understanding the interrelation between work and mental health Bias related to stereotypical leaders and not seeing leadership where it shows up outside of able-bodied, tall, white men The calm, peaceful, work-life balance versus optimal performance and ambition Cosigning on poor work behavior and overwork What is good leadership? Leadership can be taught and can be beneficial for every client Concepts of leadership as a process and a position Interdependent, collaborative Servant Leadership Transformational Leadership What does leadership identity development look like? The 6 stages of the model created by Komives, et al. Moving from identifying leaders, understanding positional leadership, then moving to more of a process and interdependent relationship How leadership identity development impacts adult clients What impacts emerging leaders? Identities, especially marginalized identities Relationships with authority figures Resources, privilege within typical leadership development opportunities during childhood and early adulthood Relational trauma, boundaries, communication Marginalized identities and stereotypes with no sure-fire way to perform acceptably Lack of safety and empowerment Career and Leadership Assessment “Oftentimes, these stereotypes [related to marginalized identities] can really hit someone, and that can get in the way of them being able to be a good leader. First off, because they're not given the positions. But it's also something where they're navigating these stereotypes and having to twist themselves into pretzels, in order to fit in that little tiny line that is between ‘too much’ and ‘too little’.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Career trajectory Leadership identity development stage Current employment Work/life balance Role of work in client’s life and within family system Therapists Working with Leaders Life experience that therapists can draw upon Identifying what you don’t know Understand your own work trauma and leadership development The CHAT Model (or Katie’s model: clarify, imagine, simplify, act) Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Simplified SEO Consulting is completely focused on helping mental health professionals get their websites to show up on Google. They offer trainings and small group intensives to teach you how to optimize your own website. Their next small group intensive is open for enrollment now and starts in August. Take the first step to reaching more ideal clients with their next Small Group SEO Intensive. You don’t have to be tech savvy to learn SEO! These days, most people go to Google when they’re looking for a therapist and when they start searching, you want to make sure they find you! Simplified SEO Consulting walks you step by step through the process of optimizing your website with their Small Group SEO Intensives. Led by Danica Wolf, a seasoned SEO instructor with an MSW and strong understanding of the mental health world, you learn what content you need to add to your website and how to optimize it with your ideal client in mind. Then watch your online rankings climb! Next one is enrolling now and begins in August, 2022! Visit to learn more and register. Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! References mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Ben-Noam, S. (2018). Cracking the Intrapsychic “Glass Ceiling” for Women in Leadership: Therapeutic Interventions. Psychoanalytic Inquiry, 38(4), 299–311. Chang, Ting-Han. ”A Critical Study of How College Student Leaders of Color Conceptualize Social Justice Leadership.” Indiana University ProQuest Dissertations Publishing, 2022. 28964612. Chen, C. P., & Hong, J. W. L. (2020). The Career Human Agency Theory. Journal of Counseling & Development, 98(2), 193–199. Cullen, Maureen E., "Understanding Women’s Experience in Undergraduate Leadership Development Through a Transformative and Intersectional Lens" (2022). Graduate Theses and Dissertations. 102. Komives, S. R., Longerbeam, S. D., Owen, J. E., Mainella, F. C., & Osteen, L. (2006). A Leadership Identity Development Model: Applications from a Grounded Theory. Journal of College Student Development, 47(4), 401–418. Murphy, S. E., & Johnson, S. K. (2011). The benefits of a long-lens approach to leader development: Understanding the seeds of leadership. Leadership Quarterly, 22(3), 459–470. Oldridge, K. (2019). A grounded theory study exploring the contribution of coaching to rebalancing organisational power for female leaders. Coaching Psychologist, 15(1), 11–23. Tang, M., Montgomery, M. L. T., Collins, B., & Jenkins, K. (2021). Integrating Career and Mental Health Counseling: Necessity and Strategies. Journal of Employment Counseling, 58(1), 23–35. Wallace, D. M., Torres, E.M., & Zaccaro, S. J. (2021). Just what do we think we are doing? Learning outcomes of leader and leadership development. The Leadership Quarterly, 32(5). . *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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I Just Graduated, Now What? – Career Advice for New Mental Health Clinicians
07/18/2022
I Just Graduated, Now What? – Career Advice for New Mental Health Clinicians
I Just Graduated, Now What? – Career Advice for New Mental Health Clinicians Curt and Katie discuss how clinicians can decide what types of jobs to pursue when they first graduate from their clinical program. We look at whether you should go into a community mental health organization or a private practice. We also dig into what you might want to consider when making these choices and looking for these jobs. Curt and Katie share their own perspective and experiences to help you consider many different options at this stage in your career. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about a new therapist’s career path We received a listener email asking advice for how to approach getting their first job after graduating. We decided to answer that listener and to address the question of how to start your career more broadly. Should you go into a community mental health organization or private practice? “I'm of the philosophy that, especially if where you imagine yourself being is in private practice at some point, my recommendation is start doing that as soon as reasonably possible” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Considerations related to longer term goals Practical and logistical factors related to compensation, benefits, and time Clinical training and opportunities What to consider when looking to join a group private practice “When you are looking for a group practice, don’t look for something that’s just a duplication of a community mental health organization… there is a discernment that needs to happen to identify: is this actually preparing you for the private practice that you want to have in five years? Or is it a mill, where you're churning through insurance clients that don't align or… you're working for a fee that you wouldn't be able to sustain?” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Caseload and pay expectations Training and supervision opportunities What you are willing to do to obtain your own clients Whether you will stay at an agency while building a caseload What are the job options for therapists when they graduate? The importance of informational interviews to understand the options The benefits (and detriments) to different types of work settings Community mental health versus private practice Moving around and getting different experiences versus starting in a niche Identifying what is right for you Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Simplified SEO Consulting Simplified SEO Consulting is completely focused on helping mental health professionals get their websites to show up on Google. They offer trainings and small group intensives to teach you how to optimize your own website. Their next small group intensive is open for enrollment now and starts in August. Take the first step to reaching more ideal clients with their next Small Group SEO Intensive. You don’t have to be tech savvy to learn SEO! These days, most people go to Google when they’re looking for a therapist and when they start searching, you want to make sure they find you! Simplified SEO Consulting walks you step by step through the process of optimizing your website with their Small Group SEO Intensives. Led by Danica Wolf, a seasoned SEO instructor with an MSW and strong understanding of the mental health world, you learn what content you need to add to your website and how to optimize it with your ideal client in mind. Then watch your online rankings climb! Next one is enrolling now and begins in August, 2022! Visit to learn more and register. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What Therapists Should Know about the Rollout of 988
07/11/2022
What Therapists Should Know about the Rollout of 988
What Therapists Should Know about the Rollout of 988 Curt and Katie discuss the new suicide hotline, 988, that is set to roll out July 16, 2022. We talk about the legislation for 988 as well as what the primary concerns are for the launch. We explore the resources and infrastructure that is promised (but not ready) as well as ideas that might improve the success of this new initiative. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about what is already going wrong with the 988 roll out. We have been paying attention to the 988 roll out and are concerned by the lack of preparation and funding for its implementation. We talk about why we’re freaked out about the upcoming roll out. What is 988? Legislation (from 2020) makes the national suicide hotline easier to access, using the phone number 988 – set to launch on July 16, 2022 Crisis, Suicide, or Lifeline phone number Replaces the previous numbers: 800-273-8255 (phone) or text to 741741 Connecting local resources to local callers An entry point into the local crisis response system Opportunities for call, text, or messaging support during times of crisis What are the primary concerns with the launch of 988? “Mental health is not a priority according to any of the actions taken in response to [the 988 rollout] … Many states don't have the funding to implement this at all set up.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT Lack of infrastructure (calls are being sent out of state or not being answered at all) Lack of local resources to handle crisis response Lack of funding to develop these resources (potentially NO funding for staff, text, chat) Huge gaps in the crisis response system that will be exposed by increased access to this system Challenges with training hotline workers, who are likely going to be volunteers Inadequate training for inclusive services and linguistically responsive services. “We're looking at a good swath of folks who are most likely to be calling these [suicide hotline] numbers and they're going to reach somebody that has no training to work with them.” - Katie Vernoy, LMFT Ideas to improve 988 and the United States Mental Healthcare program Funding streams through Medicaid, combining forces with 911 Using the implementation to identifying gaps RAND suggestions to coordinate with local organizations for strategic planning and identifying stable funding sources, needs assessments related to personnel Advocacy at the state level to make sure state legislatures are making this work Curt’s idea: have hotlines staffed with prelicensed or provisionally licensed folks (earning double hours toward licensure) Advocacy at the federal level to increase funding across the whole country Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! RAND Report: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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The Clinical Supervision Crisis for Early Career Therapists: An Interview with Dr. Amy Parks
07/04/2022
The Clinical Supervision Crisis for Early Career Therapists: An Interview with Dr. Amy Parks
The Clinical Supervision Crisis for Early Career Therapists: An Interview with Dr. Amy Parks Curt and Katie interview Dr. Amy Parks about the lack of resources for pre- and provisionally licensed mental health professionals to find a clinical supervisor. We discuss the current state of clinical supervision, the barriers for folks becoming clinical supervisors, what makes a good supervisor, navigating online supervision, and what licensed folks might consider when seeking consultation. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Dr. Amy Parks, Founder of the Clinical Supervision Directory Dr. Amy Fortney Parks brings with her over 30 years of experience working with children, adolescents and families as both an educator and psychologist. She is a passionate “BRAIN -ENTHUSIAST” and strives to help everyone she works with understand the brain science of communication, activation and relationships. Dr. Parks has a Doctorate in Educational Psychology with a specialty in developmental neuroscience. She is a Child & Adolescent Psychologist as well as the founder and Clinical Director of WISE Mind Solutions LLC and The Wise Family Counseling, Assessment & Education in Virginia. She is also the founder of the Clinical Supervision Directory – a connection super-highway for supervision-seekers working towards licensure in counseling and social work across the US. Dr. Parks serves as a Clinical Supervisor for Virginia LPC Residents, as well as Dominion Psychiatric Hospital. Additionally, she is an adjunct professor at George Washington University & The Chicago School of Professional Psychology. Dr. Parks is a frequently sought-after parent coach and speaker for families and groups around the world. In this podcast episode, we talk about clinical supervision for modern therapists We look at the gap in clinical supervision for prelicensed or provisionally licensed mental health professionals. What is the state of clinical supervision for mental health professionals? “Arbitrary reasons or barriers to entry are one of the main reasons why we're not getting more clinical counselors on the ground to serve the public. Because when somebody graduates from graduate school… hundreds of thousands of clinicians are graduating, and hundreds of thousands of them will not get connected to supervisors, until they figure out where to find their lists.” – Dr. Amy Parks No consistent resources for newly graduated clinicians to find supervisors Different state to state or area to area Lack of supervisors and a lack of a mechanism to connect supervisors and supervisees What are the barriers to folks becoming clinical supervisors? Different standards in different states Sometimes becoming a supervisor is too overwhelming, complicated, or too much responsibility The need for advanced training in supervision What makes a good supervisor? “Everyone should have supervision as part of their employment. It should be excellent. It should be professional, and it should be a benefit, period, end of discussion. But I can guarantee you 100% that that is not the majority of the country. And that's not the way it's done in every career field either.” – Dr. Amy Parks Training Diverse experience Understanding the boundaries between supervision and counseling Supervisor, consultant, teacher roles Cultural humility, bias – looking at clients and supervisees Navigating Online Supervision Video supervision (rather than phone) Have supervisees record (video) their sessions for feedback Research shows that telesupervision is as effective as in person Laws related to in-person versus virtual supervision Supervision or Consultation After Licensure The value of getting consultation after you’re licensed The importance of a beginner’s mind The challenges of finding good consultation Finding the right match when seeking supervision or consultation Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! coupon code for $50 off the first year: FRIEND50 Amy’s practice: Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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What is Parental Alienation and How Can Therapists Successfully Treat it?
06/27/2022
What is Parental Alienation and How Can Therapists Successfully Treat it?
What is Parental Alienation and How Can Therapists Successfully Treat it? Curt and Katie chat about a controversial topic: Parental Alienation. We look at what parental alienation is, the controversies and complexities surrounding this process, how to assess for parental alienation, and how to effectively treat the family system. We talk about how traditional therapy methods are inadequate and potentially harmful in these cases and what to do instead. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we explore Parental Alienation We both have worked with families that What is Parental Alienation? The impact a parent/guardian has over how a child interacts with another parent/guardian Complex dynamic within a family where conflict is present Breakdown of relationship based on behavior of alienating parent toward targeted parent The Four Factor Model from Baker (2020) How do you assess for Parental Alienation? Challenges with correctly identifying this process/dynamic Controversies and lack of recognition of Parental Alienation as a separate diagnosis from Parent-Child Relational Problem Identifying what Parental Alienation is not Clues that stories from kids are manufactured versus authentic stories of child abuse The need for access to the full family system to obtain sufficient information Exploring: What is alienating behavior? How does it work? Effective Case Conceptualization and Treatment for Parental Alienation “Research actually shows [for parental alienation] that only working with one part of the system and in a very isolated way, can sometimes create more harm in the system.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT The importance of a family systems approach Involvement of government systems Uncovering the generational or individual trauma for all members of the system How to engage the tools available to advocate for important treatment elements to be in place The importance of understanding scope and how to write recommendations to court Preventing therapist shopping and treatment avoidance Harmful recommendations that can hinder progress within these systems “Don't be alone with these cases. Don't keep your observations to yourself – I think whether it's with a treatment team or your own consultation or your own therapy - these things can bring so much up in therapists because of their own stories, their own history and the just the intensity of what's happening in these systems.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT Treatment teaming and avoiding isolation Educating about Parental Alienation Supporting the targeted parent to improve the relationship with the child Working with alienating parent to prepare for improvement in child’s relationship with targeted parenting Co-parenting and conflict resolution Therapist communication with all members of the system Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: GreenOak Accounting At GreenOak Accounting, they believe that every private practice should be profitable. They’ve worked with hundreds of practice owners across the country to have the financial confidence and information to make data-driven decisions. We want our client's businesses to be profitable so they can focus on fulfilling their mission. GreenOak Accounting specializes in working with therapists in private practice, and they have helped hundreds of therapists across the country reach their financial goals. They offer a number of monthly packages to fit a growing practice's needs - from bookkeeping to CFO services. Other specialized services include Profit First Support, compensation planning, and customized KPI Dashboards. They help therapists achieve their clinical goals by making sure they have a profitable practice, and offer unsurpassed support along the way. If you’re interested in scheduling a complimentary consultation, please visit their website at to learn more. Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we’re so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to , register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! References mentioned in this continuing education podcast: Baker, A. J. (2010). Adult children of parental alienation syndrome: Breaking the ties that bind. WW Norton & Company. Baker, A. (2020). Reliability and validity of the four‐factor model of parental alienation. Journal of family therapy, 42(1), 100-118. Garber, B. D. (2011). Parental alienation and the dynamics of the enmeshed parent–child dyad: Adultification, parentification, and infantilization. Family Court Review, 49(2), 322-335. Templer, K., Matthewson, M., Haines, J., & Cox, G. (2017). Recommendations for best practice in response to parental alienation: Findings from a systematic review. Journal of Family Therapy, 39(1), 103-122. *The full reference list can be found in the course on . Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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The Practicalities of Mental Health and Gender Affirming Care for Trans Youth: An Interview with Jordan Held, LCSW
06/20/2022
The Practicalities of Mental Health and Gender Affirming Care for Trans Youth: An Interview with Jordan Held, LCSW
The Practicalities of Mental Health and Gender Affirming Care for Trans Youth: An Interview with Jordan Held, LCSW Curt and Katie interview Jordan Held, LCSW, about gender affirming care, trans mental health, the practicalities of transition (as well as the different types of transition), specifics when working with trans youth, and the politicization of trans folks. We also explore culture and privilege related to transition. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Jordan Held, LCSW Jordan Held (he/him/his), LCSW is a Primary Therapist and Gender Specialist at Visions Adolescent Treatment Center. Prior to Visions, Jordan was a Therapist and Intake Coordinator at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles in the Center for Trans Youth Health and Development, the largest trans youth health clinic in the USA. Jordan’s mental health practice centers around creating a trauma-informed and healing-centered space for both adolescents and their families. Jordan’s expertise is working with gender and sexual minority youth with complex histories of PTSD and trauma. Jordan speaks internationally about creating and supporting affirmative LGBTQ+ environments with an emphasis on informed consent and enhanced family communication. As a queer-identified, transgender man, Jordan brings an important dual perspective to his work as a mental health provider. Prior to social work, Jordan worked extensively in secondary school education, with a decade of experience teaching, coaching, and developing health and wellness curricula. Jordan’s work focuses on gender violence prevention, diversity, equity, inclusion, and cultivating strength and belonging for teens. Jordan is on the Board of Directors of the Los Angeles LGBT Center, the Laurel Foundation, JQ International, and Mental Health America of Los Angeles. Jordan is also a long-time facilitator at Transforming Family, a support group for gender-diverse youth and their family. Jordan holds a Master of Social Welfare degree from UCLA, a Master of Sports Leadership degree from Northeastern University, and a Bachelor of Science in Kinesiology from the University of Connecticut. Jordan is an avid sneakerhead who self-cares by lifting heavy weights, going to the beach, loving his rescue dog, and embracing his gender euphoria! In this podcast episode, we talk about trans mental health For Pride Month, we wanted to deepen our conversation on trans mental health and what therapists should know when working with trans individuals. What is gender-affirmative care? “Trans people are being used as political pawns.” – Jordan Held, LCSW The way that “gender affirming care” is being taken out of context What is actually happening, how it has been politicized The misinformation related to what is available to children who are exploring their gender (i.e., parental consent and youth care) The role of therapists versus the role of medical providers Discussion of gender norms Different types of transition for trans individuals Social transition (name, pronouns, clothes, haircut) Medical interventions that may start during puberty (i.e., puberty blockers, progesterone only birth control) Cross sex hormones and surgeries (which actually require a long process) States are very specific for what they require for gender care (as do insurance companies) Conversations in therapy for trans youth Gender journey Meeting the kids where they’re at Lying to get what they need Letters and recommendations for surgery The gender dysphoria diagnosis and sorting that out from depression, anxiety, etc. Supporting trans youth with social transition and getting the support they need The concerns with maladaptive coping skills available online Positive resources for trans youth (scroll down to resources) Identity and impacts The Politicization of Trans Individuals “Shame on us as adults that we are so scared, we have so much fear over – let’s be honest – what’s in someone's pants, right? All of this has to do with the fear of something that we don't know. This fear… that somebody's genitals do not align what we think is in their pants. And as an adult talking to another adult, that's kind of gross, right? Like, why as adults do we care so much about what is in a kid's pants?” – Jordan Held, LCSW Jordan grew in privilege when he transitioned Legislation Schools removing conversations related to gender and sexuality Play and sports being withheld from trans kids Bias and how being trans is perceived The actual numbers of trans folks who want to play sports or want to use the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity Advice for trans kids and families where gender care is illegal, advice for therapists Age limits and laws that don’t align with logic Culture, privilege, and being trans Increasing or decreasing privilege when one transitions Getting used to the changed dynamic within society based on external experience The complexity of the experience and the changing of the experience The concept of “passing” and how it taps into bias Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: GreenOak Accounting At GreenOak Accounting, they believe that every private practice should be profitable. They’ve worked with hundreds of practice owners across the country to have the financial confidence and information to make data-driven decisions. We want our client's businesses to be profitable so they can focus on fulfilling their mission. GreenOak Accounting specializes in working with therapists in private practice, and they have helped hundreds of therapists across the country reach their financial goals. They offer a number of monthly packages to fit a growing practice's needs - from bookkeeping to CFO services. Other specialized services include Profit First Support, compensation planning, and customized KPI Dashboards. They help therapists achieve their clinical goals by making sure they have a profitable practice, and offer unsurpassed support along the way. If you’re interested in scheduling a complimentary consultation, please visit their website at to learn more. Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That’s right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Online support and communities for trans youth: (helpline, suicidality) Google local universities in state – they often have support groups Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Additional episodes for Pride Month: Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano
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