Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Release Date: 01/09/2023

Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach Curt and Katie interview Maureen Werrbach of the Group Practice Exchange on upcoming trends for mental healthcare. We talk about what is predicted, how to prepare your private practice for success in 2023, and how to plan for unexpected changes to our profession. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Maureen Werrbach, LCPC, The Group Practice Exchange Maureen Werrbach established The Group Practice Exchange after starting her private practice, Urban Wellness, and...

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist Curt and Katie chat about money: considerations for investing and getting paid as a therapist. We look at typical unpaid opportunities and how to decide whether to do them. We also talk about client care practices that may take time, but could keep clients. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about money mistakes that many therapists make We talk a lot about making sure that therapists get paid, but thought it was worth talking about when therapists...

How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW Curt and Katie interview Kym Tolson, the traveling therapist. We look at how a modern therapist can be a digital nomad, including what business logistics to consider as well as how to travel well. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW I'm Kym Tolson, I'm an LCSW and CSAC licensed in the state of Virginia. I have an online insurance-based therapy practice. I lived in Florida until 2/2/22 when we (my BF and I) became digital nomads. Now, we will live in...

Smarter than SMART: How therapists can improve goal-setting with clients

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Smarter than SMART: How therapists can improve goal-setting with clients Curt and Katie chat about setting goals. We look at why goals are important to therapists, SMART goals (what they are, what works and what doesn’t), and how to move beyond SMART goals to more robust goal setting and behavior design. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about how to strengthen your goal-setting skills Many therapists learn SMART Goals and objectives as the primary tools for creating treatment plans. Oftentimes, goal...

Navigating the Social Media Self-Diagnosis Trend

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Navigating the Social Media Self-Diagnosis Trend Curt and Katie chat about the TikTok Mental Health and the self-diagnosis trend. We dig into what diagnosis is (and what is actually useful about diagnosis). We also explore the concerns with social media self-diagnosis as well as how we can support our clients with getting accurate assessment and treatment. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about self-diagnosis and the impact of social media We have both heard about TikTok diagnoses in our practices and wanted to talk about how therapists...

What Therapists Should Know About Sexual Health, Monkey Pox, and the Echoes of the AIDS Epidemic: An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

What Therapists Should Know About Sexual Health, Monkey Pox, and the Echoes of the AIDS Epidemic: An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT Curt and Katie interview Mallory Garrett about sexual health as well as the current concerns related to Monkey Pox. We discuss what therapists usually get wrong when working with sexual health, what therapists need to know about STIs, as well as Monkey Pox. We talk about the relevant history of the HIV/AIDs epidemic and the community responses to Monkey Pox. We also look at how therapists can be most helpful to clients within our scope of practice. Resources...

It’s the Lack of Thought That Counts: Ethical Decision Making in Dual Relationships

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

It’s the Lack of Thought That Counts: Ethical Decision Making in Dual Relationships Curt and Katie chat about dual relationships. We talk about the types of dual relationships, how often therapists get in trouble for these types of relationships, how to manage dual relationships, and the ethical decision making process to go through to decide whether to engage in a dual relationship. This is a law and ethics continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about ethical decision making to navigate dual relationships We take a...

How Can Therapists Help Couples Recover from Infidelity?: An Interview with Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

How Can Therapists Help Couples Recover from Infidelity?: An Interview with Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem Curt and Katie interview Dr. Talal H. Alsaleem, Psy.D, LMFT about System Affair Recovery Treatment (SART) and how therapists can better address infidelity in treatment. We discuss what therapists usually get wrong when working with infidelity, the difference between typical couples counseling and affair recovery, and why infidelity happens. We also look at the SART Model as well as tactics and treatment teaming. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! An Interview with Dr. Talal H....

Why Aren’t Men Becoming Therapists Anymore?

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Why Aren’t Men Becoming Therapists Anymore? Curt and Katie chat about the lack of male therapists and the decreasing number of male students in the profession. We look at current statistics and reported experiences of men in the field. We also dig into what needs to change to balance gender representation and increase the number of men becoming therapists. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about male therapists Continuing forward within men’s health month, we are looking at the state of the profession for male therapists....

Why Men Don’t Stay in Therapy

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Why Men Don’t Stay in Therapy Curt and Katie chat about men’s mental health. We look at why men typically go to therapy, their experiences while in therapy, what therapists get wrong when working with men, and how therapists better support the needs of men seeking mental health treatment. Transcripts for this episode will be available at ! In this podcast episode we talk about men seeking therapy For Men’s Health Awareness month, we want to explore men seeking mental health services. Why do men typically go to therapy? Others telling men to go to therapy Career or...

More Episodes

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist

Curt and Katie chat about money: considerations for investing and getting paid as a therapist. We look at typical unpaid opportunities and how to decide whether to do them. We also talk about client care practices that may take time, but could keep clients.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode we talk about money mistakes that many therapists make

We talk a lot about making sure that therapists get paid, but thought it was worth talking about when therapists should invest in their business and when they may want to work for free.

What are the lessons Curt and Katie learned around investing in their businesses?

Electronic Health Records/Practice Management systems are very helpful
Automation helps your business to run without you
Sometimes visibility is worth working for free

How do you decide if you should do something for your business?

“I gave a presentation, it's gotta be more than 10 years ago at this point, for a group of students. I think, like five people showed up… But I still get referrals from one of the people who came there. And it turned into a really wonderful relationship, because I sounded like I knew what I was talking about.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT

What are the practical benefits and challenges?
What are the other potential benefits (like enjoyment)?
What is the investment of time, money, and expertise?
What is the return on investment?

Specifics on deciding to take unpaid work

“There are elements of this where it's really looking at is the audience strong enough? Is there any money eventually? And do you actually want the referrals from the audience that you're going to be in front of? Because if all of those things are yes… I would consider – at least the first time out – doing some content creation (because I love content creation) without getting paid to see does it actually pan out. But you want to make sure you track that to determine: am I going to actually get anything from this this relationship and from this work that I'm doing?” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT

What new relationships will be developed?
Will you get visibility with the audience you’re seeking?
Will you obtain access to relevant learning?
Is the entity that is asking you legit and established?
Are there other forms of compensation (like photos or videos)?
Are you able to get clients from this work? (And what are new clients worth to you?)

Client care versus getting paid

“I don't think it's helpful, at least not for customer service purposes, to view your client as trying to take advantage of you.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT

Setting up appropriate boundaries and policies
Avoiding additional costs, if you can (i.e., setting fees in a private pay practice to include these extras)

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!

Our Linktree: https://linktr.ee/therapyreimagined

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Why You Shouldn’t Just Do It All Yourself: An interview with Bibi Goldstein

Why You Shouldn't Sell Out to Better Help: An interview with Jeff Guenther

I Just Graduated, Now What? Career Advice for New Clinicians

Who we are:

Curt Widhalm, LMFT

Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com

Katie Vernoy, LMFT

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.