The Allender Center Podcast
Hosts Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen along with occasional guests, candidly discuss the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed in our world. Join us to gain refreshing insight on the journey to hope and healing from trauma and abuse. For information on our programs and events, visit theallendercenter.org.
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Reflections on the Year 2025 with Dr. Dan and Becky Allender
12/26/2025
Reflections on the Year 2025 with Dr. Dan and Becky Allender
As the year comes to a close, Dan and Becky Allender continue their annual podcast tradition: pausing to reflect on the year that has passed. They share a bit about their own experiences—what they’ve learned, what they’re grieving, and what they’re celebrating—as they prepare to enter a new season. Together, they invite you to also pause and reflect: What moments from your year need remembering? What relationships could use repair or deeper care? What desires and hopes might God be stirring in your heart for the year ahead? We are deeply grateful for your presence and support of the Allender Center Podcast in 2025. As we step into 2026, we look forward to continuing this journey together!
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God in Relationship: Advent and the Trinity with Rev. Dr. Michael Chen
12/12/2025
God in Relationship: Advent and the Trinity with Rev. Dr. Michael Chen
This Advent season, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Rev. Dr. Michael Chen for a rich and deeply human conversation about the Trinity and what it reveals to us about God, ourselves, and our relationships with others. Together, they explore how the mystery of one God in three persons shapes our understanding of love, relationality, and beauty—particularly in the context of Advent, when we reflect on God’s incarnation and presence in the world. This episode is an invitation to pause, wonder, and engage your heart with the presence of God in this season of anticipation. The podcast will take a short break next week for the holiday, but we’ll be back on December 26 with an end-of-year reflection from Dan and Becky Allender.
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The Story of God With Us: Advent and the Early Church with Blaine Eldredge
12/05/2025
The Story of God With Us: Advent and the Early Church with Blaine Eldredge
As we begin the Advent season, Dan and Rachael welcome writer and theologian Blaine Eldredge back to the podcast for a sweeping, story-rich journey into history, theology, and the fierce hope of the incarnation. If you love church history or the nuance of theological debate, this episode is a feast. And if you don’t consider yourself a scholar, you’re still fully invited in, because the questions raised here reach all of us who long for God-with-us in turbulent times. They approach Advent by way of one of the most compelling figures of the early church: Athanasius, the fourth-century bishop whose devotion to the incarnation shaped Christian belief for generations. This episode invites you to consider what it means that God took on flesh amid conflict, upheaval, and hope that refuses to be extinguished. It’s a rich, timely conversation for this season of waiting and wonder.
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Loneliness, Isolation, and Presence
11/28/2025
Loneliness, Isolation, and Presence
Loneliness is a human experience, but it’s one we don’t always acknowledge honestly. In this deeply personal conversation, Dan and Rachael open up about the moments when loneliness and suffering make us unsure of what we need, what we want, or how to ask for help. They also zoom out: why loneliness is rising, how our culture quietly reinforces isolation, and why recognizing our ache for connection is a sign of our humanity, not our failure. You probably won’t find quick fixes or step-by-step solutions in this conversation. Rather, consider this episode an invitation to reflect on your own ambivalence, your desire for connection, and the quiet, messy courage it takes to reach out—both when you feel lonely and when you sense someone else might be, too. Helps us continue creating thoughtful, trauma-informed, spiritually grounded content.
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How to Not Be Consumed at Thanksgiving
11/21/2025
How to Not Be Consumed at Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving is right around the corner. It can be a day of tradition, family, and connection. It can also bring tension, exhaustion, grief, or even trigger old wounds. Today, Dan and Rachael reflect on the complex reality of the holiday: the joy, the nostalgia, the chaos, and the moments that can leave us feeling overwhelmed or even “devoured” by family dynamics. Drawing on their own stories and looking ahead to this year’s holiday, they explore how to hold gratitude alongside grief, and how to create meaningful connection without losing yourself. Whether you’re hosting, traveling, or creating a quiet space for yourself, this conversation offers gentle guidance and practical tools. You’ll learn how to approach Thanksgiving with intention, better honor your boundaries, and participate with a heart that’s more open to the day, however it unfolds.
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Marriage in the Midst of Difficult Seasons
11/14/2025
Marriage in the Midst of Difficult Seasons
Marriage always carries both joy and challenge… but what happens when life pushes you to the edge? When trauma, illness, loss, stress, or sheer exhaustion stretch your relationship beyond its limits? In this tender and often humorous conversation, Rachael Clinton Chen interviews Dan and Becky Allender to explore what it means to love and be loved through seasons of extremity—those times when the demands of life exceed our capacity to meet them. From everyday frustrations to the deep pain of seasons of loss, physical suffering, and ministry fatigue, Dan and Becky reflect honestly on how marriage can expose both our best and our most broken parts. If you’re wondering how to stay connected when life feels impossible—or how to find beauty and intimacy on the other side of pain—this episode is a gentle invitation to hope. This episode engages the topic of some difficult topics, including pregnancy loss. Listener discretion is advised.
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Trauma & Emotional Dysregulation
11/07/2025
Trauma & Emotional Dysregulation
Ever have a day where everything goes sideways and your body just won’t calm down? In this episode, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore emotional dysregulation: why our nervous systems spiral under stress, especially with a history of trauma, and how we can respond with mercy rather than shame. Through humor, real-life stories, and insights from both neuroscience and Scripture, they show that dysregulation isn’t weakness; it’s a signal from your body asking for care and compassion. Their conversation also offers practical ways to tend to your body, mind, and soul. Listener Resources: Read: Aundi Kolber’s Read: Resmaa Manakem’s Listen to: on the Allender Center Podcast Download the free worksheet: from the at The Seattle School
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Psalm 13, Erin Brockovich, and the Debris of Sexual Abuse
10/31/2025
Psalm 13, Erin Brockovich, and the Debris of Sexual Abuse
If you’ve ever wrestled with the long, uneven work of healing, we hope today’s conversation offers courage for the journey. Dan shares his recent reflections on the lament of waiting found in Psalm 13 and the persistent pursuit of justice embodied by Erin Brockovich as he rewatched the 2000 film. He and Rachael explore the tension between justice today and the full restoration that is “not yet,” bringing these insights into the lingering impact of past sexual abuse. Healing after sexual abuse shapes not just your body but your whole affective and relational world. When harm happens in relationships, it distorts your sense of safety, trust, and even goodness. You may notice contempt toward your own body, frustration at emotional reactions, or fear around your own desires. Hypervigilance, self-protection, or numbing can become familiar companions, and trusting others—or even yourself—can feel risky. The work of healing in adult life is laborious, requiring vulnerability, patience, and courage to reclaim desire, goodness, and the capacity to be seen. They consider Psalm 13 as both a cry of lament and a thread of hope. It doesn’t promise immediate relief. It simply says, “I trust in your unfailing love,” leaving open the possibility that this is not the end of the story. Healing is not a linear path or a once-and-done process. It’s a lifelong journey of tending to what remains—the physiological, emotional, relational, and spiritual aftermath of trauma. And yet, even in the hard work, there is invitation: keep choosing life, goodness, and the beauty of your own desire. Every small act of caring for your body, each moment of speaking truth, each return to beauty becomes a protest against despair—a glimpse of the wholeness that is coming. Healing itself is a form of justice. * This episode engages the topic of abuse, particularly sexual abuse and child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.
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“Holy Hurt” with Hillary L. McBride, PhD
10/24/2025
“Holy Hurt” with Hillary L. McBride, PhD
Healing from spiritual abuse and religious trauma is not a simple, linear journey. In this week’s episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Rachael Clinton Chen sits down with Dr. Hillary McBride—psychologist, researcher, and author of “Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing”—to explore the invisible wounds that trauma leaves on our minds, bodies, and spirits. They talk about: How trauma can be reinforced by the very systems meant to guide and protect us. The profound importance of witnessing, connection, and radical welcoming in your recovery journey. Recovering parts of ourselves that were buried under burdens we were never meant to carry. What it means to grieve, to repair, and to show up for ourselves and our communities. This conversation is an invitation to sit tenderly with your own story, to bear witness to your pain, and to glimpse the possibility of love, mercy, and goodness in the midst of it. You can order your copy of “Holy Hurt” by Hillary L. McBride, PhD, here:
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“Sacred Attachment” with Michael John Cusick
10/17/2025
“Sacred Attachment” with Michael John Cusick
In this week’s wise and profoundly human conversation, Dr. Dan Allender sits down with longtime friend and former student Michael John Cusick, founder of Restoring the Soul and author of the new book Sacred Attachment: Escaping Spiritual Exhaustion and Trusting in Divine Love. Together, they explore the link between spiritual exhaustion and divine love, and how attachment, or the way we learn to connect and be connected, shapes our experience of God, ourselves, and one another. Michael shares pieces of his remarkable story: from surviving profound childhood trauma and addiction to discovering the slow, sacred work of healing that unfolds over a lifetime. He reflects on the moments that first revealed divine love to him and later, the painful exposure that became the turning point of his adult life. Dan and Michael talk about what it means to practice attachment—to be seen, soothed, safe, and secure—and how even our deepest wounds can become doorways into God’s relentless, restorative love. This episode engages the topic of abuse, particularly sexual abuse and child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.
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“Surrendered Sexuality” with Dr. Juli Slattery
10/10/2025
“Surrendered Sexuality” with Dr. Juli Slattery
When you hear the words “surrendered sexuality,” what comes to mind—loss, shame, control? In this conversation, you’ll hear a different vision. In this week’s episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by clinical psychologist and author Dr. Juli Slattery. Together, they open up a vulnerable and hope-filled dialogue about sexuality—one that goes far beyond rules or “right answers.” Drawing from her new book Surrendered Sexuality: How Knowing Jesus Changes Everything, Juli shares how her own journey, through disruption, prayer, and deepening intimacy with God, led her to recognize the unspoken pain so many of us carry around sexuality. Rather than focusing on behaviors, Dan and Juli invite you to see sexuality as a core part of being human: your body, your emotions, your longing for connection, and ultimately, your intimacy with God. They also reframe what it means to surrender. Instead of shame or control, surrender becomes a gentle, ongoing invitation into the goodness of God—an opening to more pleasure in life, meaningful healing, and deeper trust in Jesus. This isn’t an episode with tidy conclusions or quick fixes. It’s an invitation to step into the mystery of sexuality as part of your discipleship journey, and to discover that in surrender, you don’t lose yourself. You find life: a life that is more whole, more connected, and more deeply rooted in the goodness of God.
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Church & Mental Health with Laura Howe
10/03/2025
Church & Mental Health with Laura Howe
What does it look like for the Church to become a true place of hope, healing, and care when it comes to mental health? In this week’s conversation, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Laura Howe, a clinical social worker and founder of and the , a free online event coming up on October 10, 2025. Laura shares her journey into bridging faith and mental health—born out of frustration and a longing to see the Church rise to its calling as a safe, caring community. Together, they explore the unique role the Church can play in mental health support: not as a replacement for clinical care, but as a vital presence of peer support, belonging, and discipleship that helps people feel seen and held. This episode touches on: How churches can move beyond programs to cultivate a culture of care The power of peer support as the “missing piece” in mental health conversations The theological and cultural obstacles that keep communities from engaging suffering honestly The very real challenges of compassion fatigue and burnout for leaders—and practices for resilience Whether you’re a pastor, ministry leader, caregiver, or someone longing to see your church embody greater compassion, this conversation offers both hope and practical wisdom for building communities where people can truly experience the canopy of care we all need.
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Living Theology
09/26/2025
Living Theology
For many, theology brings to mind dusty bookshelves, abstract arguments, and rigid dogmas. But what if theology wasn’t static? What if it could move, breathe, and shape the way we live, love, and lead in the world? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Dr. Lauren D. Sawyer to talk about living theology—a way of engaging God and Scripture that doesn’t stay confined to the context of books, a classroom, or even church, but instead has “feet” that walk into our everyday lives. Lauren shares about The Seattle School’s new Certificate in Living Theology, a one-year online program designed to bring theology into conversation with psychology, culture, story, and community. Together, they explore why theology is never neutral, how our contexts shape what we believe, and why listening and dialogue are as essential as doctrine. You’ll hear how living theology is less about arriving at final answers and more about cultivating a faith that is reflective, embodied, and responsive to the complexities of our time. If you’ve ever longed for a way of doing theology that feels deeply connected to life, justice, and relational depth, this conversation is an invitation to consider what it means for theology to truly come alive. Learn more about the Certificate in Living Theology:
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Recovery Week Reflections
09/19/2025
Recovery Week Reflections
This episode engages the topic of abuse, particularly sexual abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Dr. Dan Allender and Linda Royster, LCMHC—two of the leaders of our Recovery Week experiences—come together to reflect on the heart and history of this sacred work. Dan shares about the origins of Recovery Week in 1988, a gathering that began with a bold hope: that healing is possible for those carrying the wounds of childhood sexual abuse. Linda offers her own story of first encountering The Wounded Heart and the ways it opened her to the possibility of transformation. Together, they invite us into a deeper understanding of what it means to hold both the personal and the collective—acknowledging that no one suffers in isolation, but always within systems and contexts that shape our stories. Linda speaks to the profound intersections of racial trauma and sexual abuse, and the complex layers of shame that can silence and fragment survivors. Recovery Weeks create a space to move toward those particularities of the harm you’ve experienced—where you may want to freeze, minimize, or look away—and to take the courageous step of naming what is true. The goal is not to erase or resolve shame, but to walk through it, opening the way for transformation. This conversation is an honoring of the decades of work poured into Recovery Weeks, and a heartfelt invitation: to those who come, your presence is already a profound act of courage. Our hope is that you might encounter a deeper healing that makes way for new life.
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The Cost and Gift of Creativity in Relationships with John and Sue Cunningham
09/12/2025
The Cost and Gift of Creativity in Relationships with John and Sue Cunningham
We are made in the image of a wildly creative God—and that means creativity lives in each of us. Yet, while it flows freely in childhood, many of us lose touch with it as adults, buried under busyness and productivity. What would it look like to recover creativity—not just for ourselves, but within our closest relationships? This week, Dan and Becky Allender sit down with longtime friends John and Sue Cunningham, who are both creative in their own right. John is a potter, Sue is a poet, and together they’ve discovered both the beauty and the challenges of nurturing creativity in their marriage. Their conversation explores: The vulnerable (and sometimes costly) work of encouraging creativity in one another How creativity can be both communal and connecting, and also deeply individual and isolating The patience, generosity, and curiosity that can support your partner’s creative passions Practical ways to offer meaningful feedback and engagement without shutting each other down Whether you write, paint, play music, garden, or simply long to bring more beauty into your life, this episode will encourage you to see creativity not only as a personal practice—but as a vital part of your relationship.
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Bickering, Kindness, and the Deep Roots of Love
09/05/2025
Bickering, Kindness, and the Deep Roots of Love
Marriage isn’t only shaped by the big events and ruptures—it’s also shaped by the little things. The small arguments that seem to surface again and again, the shifts in family roles as children grow up and move out, and even the physical changes that come with aging can quietly wear away at a relationship if left unspoken. In this episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Dr. Dan and Becky Allender are joined by Dr. Steve and Lisa Call to revisit the topic of marriage following the release earlier this year of their book, The Deep-Rooted Marriage. Together, they name the everyday tensions—like bickering over household tasks or navigating the emotional weight of an empty nest—that can strain a relationship. More importantly, they share how couples can stay “buoyed together” through kindness, curiosity, and honest conversation. From asking simple questions like “What’s going on for you?” to practicing story work that helps us understand the deeper histories beneath our conflicts, this conversation offers hope and guidance for cultivating resilience and intimacy in marriage. Whether you’re facing small resentments, major life transitions, or simply longing for more connection, this episode invites you to consider how kindness, curiosity, and story work can deepen your relationship. Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.
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“Enneagram and Marriage” with Christa Hardin
08/29/2025
“Enneagram and Marriage” with Christa Hardin
What does it take to thrive in our relationships—not just survive—and how can the Enneagram help us along the way? In this episode of The Allender Center Podcast, Rachael Clinton Chen sits down with Christa Hardin, founder of Enneagram + Marriage and author of “The Enneagram in Marriage: Your Guide to Thriving Together in Your Unique Pairing.” Christa brings years of wisdom from her own relationship, plus her expertise as a marriage coach and therapist, to offer a hopeful, honest perspective on why personality awareness matters—but why it’s never the whole story. Together, Rachael and Christa explore: ✔ Why joyful feelings (and even celebration) can feel harder than conflict—and what that reveals about us. ✔ Christa’s concept of the Glow Stages in relationships—what they are, why we can’t live on the mountaintop forever, and how to navigate the necessary valleys with grace. ✔ How the Enneagram helps us honor our gifts, name our shadows, and stay curious about ourselves and each other—whether in marriage, parenting, dating, or our spiritual lives. ✔ Why love, when nurtured well, not only transforms a marriage but becomes a force for calling, courage, and blessing in the world. Whether you’re single, newly married, in the trenches of parenting, or decades into a partnership, you’ll find wisdom here for becoming more wholehearted—and more deeply connected. We invite you to listen to discover how your story, your marriage, and your love can grow through every stage. Get the completely FREE extra chapter of “The Enneagram and Marriage: Your Guide to Thriving Together in Your Unique Pairing” here:
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Moving from Broken to Beloved with Brian Lee
08/22/2025
Moving from Broken to Beloved with Brian Lee
Spiritual abuse can shatter trust—not only in people and institutions, but sometimes even in God. It can leave survivors wondering if healing or belonging is possible on the other side of betrayal. In this conversation, Rachael Clinton Chen is joined by Brian Lee, founder of Broken to Beloved. Brian shares his story of growing up as a pastor’s kid, becoming a pastor himself, and eventually facing the reality of spiritual abuse in his own life. Out of that painful journey, he has learned the daily work of reminding himself—and others—that no matter what has been taken, we are still beloved. This work doesn’t happen in isolation. Brian and Rachael name the importance of the wider movement—survivors, advocates, pastors, and therapists—who are rising up to expose abuse and create spaces of honesty, care, and repair. Together they remind us that while spiritual abuse is devastating, it does not have the final word. You can learn more about Broken to Beloved at . Plus, this fall, we hope you’ll join Brian, Rachael, and a host of other speakers at the Broken to Beloved Gathering in Richmond, VA, this October 10-11, 2025. Tickets are available at:
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Being a Faithful Witness in Harrowing Times with Rev. Marcos Canales & Rev. Dr. Robert Chao Romero
08/15/2025
Being a Faithful Witness in Harrowing Times with Rev. Marcos Canales & Rev. Dr. Robert Chao Romero
What does it look like to stand with a community through fire—both literal and systemic? In this conversation, Rev. Marcos Canales and Rev. Dr. Robert Chao Romero join Rachael Clinton Chen to share their experiences leading and loving the Latino community in the Los Angeles area, especially during recent times of crisis. From homes lost and families displaced by devastating wildfires this year to the crushing weight of recent unjust immigration policies that threaten daily survival, these realities are urgent and relentless. Amid these challenges, they share how they create space for lament, fierce hope, and necessary rest in their lives as leaders. They show what it means to bear witness with empathy, stand in true solidarity, and nurture resilience when the world feels like it’s falling apart. Beyond politics, agendas, and policies, their witness points to a deeper hope in Jesus—one that sustains, heals, and empowers communities to keep moving forward. We invite you to listen, learn, and be moved by their wisdom—shaped by personal and communal healing. You can learn more about La Fuente Ministries and how you can support their work:
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“Raising Securely Attached Kids” with Eli Harwood
08/08/2025
“Raising Securely Attached Kids” with Eli Harwood
What if the secret to more connected parenting isn’t about getting everything right — but about showing up enough to make things right when you don’t? In this week’s episode, Rachael Clinton Chen talks with Eli Harwood, aka @attachmentnerd — licensed therapist, award-winning author, and one of Instagram’s most trusted voices on attachment and parenting. They dive into how our own attachment stories shape the way we relate to our kids, why being “good enough” really is enough, and how creating space for repair and consistency beats striving for perfection every time. With a blend of science, personal stories, and down-to-earth advice, Eli reminds us that secure attachment isn’t about flawless parenting — it’s about presence, patience, and showing up again and again. Whether you’re navigating the younger years, parenting teens, or unpacking your own childhood experiences, this conversation offers hope, grounding, and a fresh perspective. Visit her at where you can listen into her podcast, join the Nerd Herd, or even book an attachment coach. You can also follow her on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook @attachmentnerd. And don’t forget to : Securely Attached: Transform Your Attachment Patterns into Loving, Lasting Romantic Relationships and Raising Securely Attached Kids: Using Connection-Focused Parenting to Create Confidence, Empathy & Resilience.
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Trauma, Grief, and Disrupting Death-Dealing Systems with Dr. Jamie Eaddy
08/01/2025
Trauma, Grief, and Disrupting Death-Dealing Systems with Dr. Jamie Eaddy
If you’ve ever struggled to make space for your own grief—or wondered why so many people around you seem to push through pain without tending to it—this episode offers a compelling and liberating invitation. Host Rachael Clinton Chen and guest co-host Wendell Moss sit down with Dr. Jamie Eaddy. Dr. Jamie is a thanatologist, which is a professional who studies and provides support related to death, dying, bereavement, and grief. She is also a grief and death doula, a healer, and the founder of The Ratchet Grief Project®. Jamie’s work centers especially on the Black community and other marginalized groups whose grief is often overlooked or dismissed. She invites us to see grief not as a private burden or spiritual failing, but as a sacred, communal, and even political process. Together, they name the systems that make it hard for us to grieve—particularly in communities shaped by Christian triumphalism, generational survival strategies, systemic racism, and the pressure to “keep going” at all costs. Dr. Jamie challenges death-dealing theologies that shame us for being human and normalize suffering as something deserved or redemptive. Instead, she offers a vision of a God who grows with us, who is expansive, and who longs for us to be fully alive. This episode is a call to reclaim grief as part of what it means to be human—and to reimagine our faith, our communities, and our systems to reflect that truth. If you’re longing for permission to pause, to feel, and to be held in the midst of loss, we hope this conversation will meet you right where you are.
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A Sabbath Summer, Part 3: Reflecting and Savoring
07/25/2025
A Sabbath Summer, Part 3: Reflecting and Savoring
In this final episode of the Sabbath Summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen guide us into the often-overlooked final movement of Sabbath: reflection. We began with anticipation—the courageous act of imagining rest. Then moved into participation—embracing play even in the midst of reality’s messiness. And now, we arrive at reflection—savoring what has been. But reflection doesn’t always come easily. In a culture that pushes us toward constant motion, pausing to ponder our day, our summer, or even a moment of joy can feel… unnatural. Or even risky. As Rachael shares, sometimes the goodness we taste is hard to hold. It intensifies longing. It reminds us of what’s still broken. And yet—it strengthens hope. Dan offers a glimpse into his own end-of-day rhythm with Becky. He reminds us that reflection is not about correction, but recollection—a gathering of the day’s moments to see what God is forming in us. This episode is an invitation to slow down, to savor, and to see: -What has this summer meant for you so far? -What might God be showing you through it? -And how might reflection become not just a one-time practice, but a way of holding eternity—right here, in the ordinary? Thank you for joining us for this three-part Sabbath Summer series. We’re grateful you chose to pause, reflect, and journey with us through anticipation, participation, and reflection. Our hope is that these conversations invited you into deeper rest—not just in your schedule, but in your spirit. May you carry what you've imagined, created, and savored into the days ahead, with openness to the delight and presence of God along the way.
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A Sabbath Summer, Part 2: Play, Disappointment, and Daring to Hope
07/18/2025
A Sabbath Summer, Part 2: Play, Disappointment, and Daring to Hope
Last week, we talked about dreaming—giving ourselves permission to hope for delight and rest this summer. But what happens when those dreams meet reality? In Part 2 of the Sabbath Summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore the tension between desire and disappointment—the beautiful and the broken that live side by side in us, in others, and in the world. Because Sabbath isn’t just about dreaming and planning. It’s about participating. Living into the play. But here’s the truth: Things rarely go exactly as we imagined. Disappointment is often inevitable. And delight—true delight—often comes not in spite of brokenness, but within it. This episode is a deep invitation to stay in the story even when plans unravel. Dan and Rachael reflect on the paradox of Sabbath as a commandment that calls us not just to rest, but to remember what we’re fighting for: connection, restoration, joy, and relationship—with ourselves, each other, and with God. Sabbath isn't an escape from the world’s urgency—it’s a radical act of resistance and reconstruction within it. As you listen, consider: How might you make space this summer not just for fun, but for redemptive play—play that embraces imperfection, disappointment, and still dares to hope? *This episode contains some explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.
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A Sabbath Summer, Part 1: Anticipating Rest
07/11/2025
A Sabbath Summer, Part 1: Anticipating Rest
What if Sabbath isn’t just a day on your calendar—but a mindset you carry with you into every part of your life? In the first bite-sized episode of our 3-part summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite us to anticipate rest and play, not just plan for it. They explore how Sabbath can be more than a scheduled pause—it can be a rhythm woven into your days, your relationships, even a quiet afternoon on the porch. Can you give yourself permission to imagine delight this summer—without immediately turning it into a to-do list? And how do we hold space for the parts of us that know disappointment, that fear the desire might not be fulfilled? This episode is an invitation to lean into your summer not with pragmatism, but with anticipation—allowing hope, imagination, and Sabbath delight to shape what’s possible. Whether you're planning a vacation, navigating a full house, or just trying to find 30 minutes of quiet—we hope this 3-part series will encourage you to pause, reflect, and imagine a new way of being present.
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The Dynamics of DARVO
07/03/2025
The Dynamics of DARVO
DARVO—”Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender”—is a powerful manipulation tactic often used to silence those who speak up about harm. In this episode, Dan and Rachael unpack how DARVO shows up not only in personal relationships but also in churches, politics, and other systems where power is protected at all costs. Together, they explore the deep psychological and spiritual impact of DARVO, particularly in narcissistic relationships or systems. Drawing from Dr. Jennifer Freyd’s work on betrayal trauma, they name the disorientation, grief, and exile that often follow when someone dares to speak what is true. What happens when cruelty masquerades as righteousness? When loyalty is measured by silence? This conversation holds space for those heartbreaks—and offers fierce, grounded hope. In a culture that often gaslights those who cry out for justice, Dan and Rachael remind us: love, truth, and healing are not just possible—they are sacred acts of resistance. And it’s not something we confront alone. With the presence of wise, compassionate others—therapists, pastors, friends, and communities of care—we can learn to trust what is true, reclaim our voice, and boldly participate in the redemptive work of love.
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How to Bring Story Work to Your Faith Community with Petra Malekzadeh
06/27/2025
How to Bring Story Work to Your Faith Community with Petra Malekzadeh
What does it take to cultivate real transformation in a faith community? Not just busier programs or better Bible studies, but real change – mind, body, and soul? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen talk with Petra Malekzadeh, Facilitation Development Manager at the Allender Center, about what it looks like to bring story work into the life of a local church. Drawing on her years of ministry leadership and her training in Narrative Focused Trauma Care®, Petra shares both the challenges and beauty of inviting people to engage their stories as part of discipleship. Listen in to explore: Why story work belongs at the heart of spiritual formation The importance of leadership buy-in and shared language How to navigate resistance and build trust What becomes possible when vulnerability is honored This conversation invites you to imagine a church where story work isn’t a side ministry—it’s how we grow into the people God is calling us to be.
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“Heaven Help Us” with John Kasich
06/20/2025
“Heaven Help Us” with John Kasich
If you like a good story, we think you’ll like this episode. This week, we’re honored to welcome John Kasich—a national leader, lifelong public servant, and gifted storyteller. Throughout his career, he’s met thousands of people, and he’s here to share just a few of the stories that have stayed with him. As the 69th Governor of Ohio (2011–2019), Gov. Kasich led with a focus on unity and problem-solving. He rose to national prominence during his 2016 presidential run and continues to serve today through his work with the Kasich Company, his role as a political analyst for NBC and MSNBC, and as the author of several New York Times bestsellers. His latest book, Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future, is the heart of this week’s conversation. John shares some of his personal journey—including how the sudden loss of his parents in a car accident became a life-altering moment. He also invites us into the deeply moving stories from his new book—stories of ordinary people in churches, synagogues, and mosques doing extraordinary work to serve their neighbors. These aren’t just heartwarming accounts; they’re powerful reminders of how faith can drive tangible, lasting change. This conversation moves quickly—so we encourage you to grab a copy of Heaven Help Us and spend time with these stories yourself. Join us for a conversation full of hope, challenge, and inspiration—about what’s possible when we come together, rooted in faith, to love our neighbors and build a better world.
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“Experience Jesus. Really.” with John Eldredge
06/13/2025
“Experience Jesus. Really.” with John Eldredge
We’re living in a time that’s quietly—but profoundly—reshaping our souls. Formed by a world of speed, efficiency, and endless information, most of us have been trained to seek quick answers, avoid ambiguity, and live with the belief that if we just do X, then Y will happen. It's not our fault—we’ve been discipled by our cultural moment, where data is king and mystery is often treated with suspicion. In the process, many of us have come to approach faith with an overdeveloped left brain—craving clarity and control, while growing uncomfortable with the unknown, the mystical, the experiential. And yet… something deeper in us still longs for more. In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by psychologist and New York Times Bestselling Author John Eldredge to explore the themes of John’s new book, “Experience Jesus. Really.” Together, they offer a timely, tender invitation: to recover a life with God that is not only true, but felt—a life rooted in presence, wonder, and communion. This conversation explores: Why our modern world makes it hard to access the presence of God The invitation to become an “ordinary mystic”—someone who experiences God from the inside out What it means to live as an “amphibious” being, rooted in both the physical and spiritual How the presence of Jesus brings refuge, healing, and integration—especially in trauma Why this isn’t just for the spiritual elite—but for all of us, here and now John draws from the wisdom of Christian mystics, scripture, and his own story to illuminate what it means to truly walk with Jesus today—in your body, your story, and your real life. If you’ve ever found yourself saying, “I want to experience more of God, but I don’t know how”—we invite you to listen to this episode. Listener Resources: Be sure to check out John Eldredge’s latest book, “Experience Jesus. Really.” here: Revisit the webinar, “The Power of Jesus in Therapeutic Practice” with Dan Allender and John Eldredge, to discover how to authentically integrate best practices with the healing power and loving care of God in your therapy practice:
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“Saving Face” with Aimee Byrd
06/06/2025
“Saving Face” with Aimee Byrd
Have you ever felt unseen in a place where you were supposed to be known? Or like the more you tried to bring your true self forward, the more you were asked to hide it? Today on the podcast, author Aimee Byrd joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to talk about her new book, Saving Face: Finding My Self, God, and One Another Outside a Defaced Church. It’s a deeply personal and theological reflection on spiritual abuse, identity, and healing—especially in the wake of church systems that no longer reflect the face of Christ. Together, they explore what it means to reclaim your face—your personhood, your story, your sacred calling. Aimee draws on the rich insight of philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, who wrote that the face is not merely a physical feature, but the place where we encounter both God and one another. To truly see another’s face is to take responsibility for their dignity and to recognize Christ’s presence there. Aimee shares her story of how a system that promised reform instead left her mocked, erased, and dehumanized. In that disillusionment, she came to a painful but powerful realization: we don’t just need reform. We need resurrection. A death to false forms of power, toxic moralism, and spiritual posturing—and a return to humility, presence, and love. This conversation offers an honest look at the loneliness of holding onto your God-given identity when others turn away, the courage it takes to seek the face of God in others, and the deep hope that emerges when we begin to see—and be seen—face to face. Listen to this week’s episode about “Saving Face” with Aimee Byrd, and be sure to pick up a copy of her book at:
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Trauma, Addiction, and the Twelve Steps – Part 2 with Ian Morgan Cron
05/30/2025
Trauma, Addiction, and the Twelve Steps – Part 2 with Ian Morgan Cron
What if your first addiction wasn’t to a substance, but to someone’s approval? In part two of our conversation with Ian Morgan Cron, we go deeper into the cycle of addiction, codependency, and the hope of recovery. Whether you're struggling with a relationship, a habit, a performance-driven mindset, or just the weight of trying to “be good,” this episode offers a profound invitation: transformation doesn't come from trying harder—it comes from surrender. You'll hear stories about the power of the 12 Steps, why spiritual awakening matters more than willpower, and how our early longings for love and safety often become tangled in the behaviors we’re desperate to change. We talk about ministry, leadership, trauma, boundaries, and what it really means to carry your healing into the lives of others. This isn’t a conversation about fixing people—it’s about engaging your own story so you can show up with greater freedom, compassion, and clarity. Take a breath, take a listen. We hope you’ll hear something that helps you come home to yourself. You can order Ian’s new book here: Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.
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