The Art of SBA Lending
A podcast for SBA Lenders
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A.I. Disruption: Time to Throw Out The Old Playbook ft. David Tinsley | Ep. 181
06/12/2025
A.I. Disruption: Time to Throw Out The Old Playbook ft. David Tinsley | Ep. 181
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, Ray Drew sits down with David Tinsley of Lenders Cooperative to unravel the shifting landscape of SBA lending and the role of technology and LSPs in shaping its future. Recorded live from the MALC conference, they dive into the buzz surrounding the unannounced new SOP and what it means for lenders. From the challenges of scaling an SBA division to the surprising dominance of AI in industry conversations, Ray and David explore how to navigate growth, manage risk, and foster innovation — "throwing the whole playbook out". They also tackle the ongoing debate of in-house operations versus leveraging Lender Service Providers (LSPs). 🎯 In this episode: ➡️ The "come what may" attitude of SBA lenders embracing change ➡️ How LSPs offer a lifeline for smaller banks to compete and scale ➡️ The critical role of AI and automation in streamlining SBA processes ➡️ Dispelling myths about SBA lending: "It's not as scary as they have worked it up to be" ➡️ The future of small business and SBA's opportunity to become a household name 💬 Are you ready to adapt to the new era of SBA lending, or are you holding onto the old ways? Join the conversation! 🎙This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART Want to win over your closing team? Next time you pick up a deal involving titled assets, go to and request a quote for tax, tag, and title so you can structure your loan correctly right from the jump. When it comes to titling vehicles, boats, and aircrafts, CORPSMART has the knowledge to assist you confidently. CORPSMART offers full-service titling solutions, working directly with the local agencies to get your titles processed accurately and on-time. If you’ve struggled with recording titles, reach out to [email protected] to learn more about their services. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call, go to . Find out why so many top-producing BDOs recommend Rapid to their small business borrowers. Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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On Track to Break $100 million feat. Alan Peterson | Ep. 180
05/29/2025
On Track to Break $100 million feat. Alan Peterson | Ep. 180
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, I sit down with the incredible Alan Peterson, BDO from First Internet Bank. Alan isn't just closing deals; he's redefining what it means to be a top producer in SBA lending, reaching over $30 million year-to-date and tracking towards an astonishing $120 million annually! Ray Drew and Alan dive deep into the mindset of a high-volume BDO, the strategic art of saying "no" to grow faster, and why true business value isn't always what it seems. They discuss navigating the complexities of deals, the crucial role of data and innovation in banking, and why being a trusted advisor is paramount. 🎯 In this episode: The Power of "No": How strategic selectivity leads to massive growth. MBA vs. Blue Collar: Understanding true business ownership and cash flow beyond the books. The Innovation Imperative: Why banks embracing data (like Lumos) are set to dominate the future of lending. Beyond the Brokers: Why sourcing 85% of your own deals makes you a more objective and effective advisor. Sleep Well Deals: The difference between simply buying a business and buying one you can actually sleep on. The Evolution of a Lender: How perspective and gratitude reshape your approach to the "hard" parts of the job. 💬 What are your thoughts on growing by saying "no" more often? Share your take in the comments! 🎙 This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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On Track to Break $100 million feat. Alan Peterson | Ep. 180
05/29/2025
On Track to Break $100 million feat. Alan Peterson | Ep. 180
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, I sit down with the incredible Alan Peterson, BDO from First Internet Bank. Alan isn't just closing deals; he's redefining what it means to be a top producer in SBA lending, reaching over $30 million year-to-date and tracking towards an astonishing $120 million annually! Ray Drew and Alan dive deep into the mindset of a high-volume BDO, the strategic art of saying "no" to grow faster, and why true business value isn't always what it seems. They discuss navigating the complexities of deals, the crucial role of data and innovation in banking, and why being a trusted advisor is paramount. 🎯 In this episode: The Power of "No": How strategic selectivity leads to massive growth. MBA vs. Blue Collar: Understanding true business ownership and cash flow beyond the books. The Innovation Imperative: Why banks embracing data (like Lumos) are set to dominate the future of lending. Beyond the Brokers: Why sourcing 85% of your own deals makes you a more objective and effective advisor. Sleep Well Deals: The difference between simply buying a business and buying one you can actually sleep on. The Evolution of a Lender: How perspective and gratitude reshape your approach to the "hard" parts of the job. 💬 What are your thoughts on growing by saying "no" more often? Share your take in the comments! 🎙 This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Untold Stories: The Rise and Fall of an SBLC feat. Kirk Beason | Ep. 179
05/15/2025
Untold Stories: The Rise and Fall of an SBLC feat. Kirk Beason | Ep. 179
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we're sitting down with a true SBA powerhouse: Kirk Beeson, SBA Managing Director at Veritex Community Bank, and former Chief Credit Officer (and so much more!) at Fund-Ex Solutions Group. Ray Drew and Kirk take a deep dive into the inside story of Fund-Ex: from its promising start-up days to navigating the chaos of PPP and the eventual sale. What does it really take to build an SBA shop from the ground up? How do you maintain culture while scaling at lightning speed? And when do you know it's time to step away? 🎯 In this episode: ➡️The secrets to building a winning SBA culture (and why it matters) ➡️Navigating the PPP whirlwind: Lessons learned from the front lines ➡️The dangers of burnout and how to avoid them ➡️Why interviewing your credit officer is non-negotiable for BDOs considering making a move ➡️Kirk's insights on leadership, strategy, and the future of SBA lending 💬 What are your biggest takeaways from Kirk's journey? Join the conversation in the comments! 🎙️ This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART Want to win over your closing team? Next time you pick up a deal involving titled assets, go to and request a quote for tax, tag, and title so you can structure your loan correctly right from the jump. When it comes to titling vehicles, boats, and aircrafts, CORPSMART has the knowledge to assist you confidently. CORPSMART offers full service titling solutions, working directly with the local agencies to get your titles processed accurately and on-time. If you’ve struggled with recording titles, reach out to [email protected] to learn more about their services. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to http://www.artofsba.com for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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The Model Has Changed: Rethinking SBA Operations ft. Mike Breckheimer, Brian Carlson & Chris Kwiatkowski | Ep. 178
05/01/2025
The Model Has Changed: Rethinking SBA Operations ft. Mike Breckheimer, Brian Carlson & Chris Kwiatkowski | Ep. 178
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we're confronting the hard truth: the traditional SBA lending model no longer works. Rising overhead, margin compression, and tighter audits have flipped the economics, and now, shops across the country are closing or scrambling to restructure. So what’s the new model? And how do you scale without losing control? Ray Drew is joined by three SBA leaders navigating this shift in real time. Mike Breckheimer, Brian Carlson, and Chris Kwiatkowski are coming together to unpack the numbers, the pitfalls, and the path forward. 🎯 In this episode: ➡️ Why SBA shops under $100MM are being forced to adapt or exit ➡️ How the LSP model is evolving (and where it still falls short) ➡️ The new math of SBA lending: headcount, volume, and cost per deal ➡️ Scaling smart with culture, compliance, and contingency planning ➡️ The role of AI, tariffs, and talent in shaping tomorrow’s strategy 💬 The SBA world is changing fast: are you adjusting with it? Listen now and let us know how your model is holding up. 🎙This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit lumosdata.com. Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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MCA Debate: Ryan Kroge and Joe Alam vs John Dicanio and Jerry Cocuzzo | Ep. 177
04/17/2025
MCA Debate: Ryan Kroge and Joe Alam vs John Dicanio and Jerry Cocuzzo | Ep. 177
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we're diving headfirst into one of the most controversial topics in small business finance: Merchant Cash Advances (MCAs). Are they a necessary lifeline—or a dangerous trap? Ray Drew brings together a panel of experienced lenders and brokers to debate the role of MCAs in today’s lending landscape. Featuring Ryan Kroge (First Internet Bank), Joseph Alam III (Midstates Advisors), John DiCanio (Fund My Biz), and Jerry Cocuzzo (FundAll Capital), the group tackles: ➡️ The pros, cons, and misconceptions of MCA lending ➡️ Why MCAs exploded post-2008 and during COVID ➡️ The rise of “stacking” and what it’s doing to small businesses ➡️ SBA vs. MCA—what’s really faster, safer, and more sustainable? ➡️ Is regulation overdue in the MCA space? From payday-style loans to structured SBA debt, this candid roundtable doesn’t hold back. Whether you’re team SBA, team MCA, or just trying to keep your borrowers afloat—this is one episode you don’t want to miss. 💬 What’s your take? Are MCAs helping or hurting Main Street? Drop a comment below and join the debate. 🎙This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART Want to win over your closing team? Next time you pick up a deal involving titled assets, go to a and request a quote for tax, tag, and title so you can structure your loan correctly right from the jump. When it comes to titling vehicles, boats, and aircrafts, CORPSMART has the knowledge to assist you confidently. CORPSMART offers full service titling solutions, working directly with the local agencies to get your titles processed accurately and on-time. If you’ve struggled with recording titles, reach out to [email protected] to learn more about their services. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Ray’s Top 10 Priorities for the SBA ft. Charles Green, Jeannie Yoder, and Shane Pierson | Ep. 176
04/03/2025
Ray’s Top 10 Priorities for the SBA ft. Charles Green, Jeannie Yoder, and Shane Pierson | Ep. 176
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, Ray is laying out his own list of top 10 priorities for the SBA, several of which might shock you. But hey, if the SBA wants change, let's give em change. Joined by Ray is a panel of Art of SBA contributors: Charles Green, Jeannie Yoder, and Shane Pierson to discuss: ➡️ Changes to SBA 7a policy ➡️ Some fresh ideas that could streamline the program ➡️ How to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater ➡️ Timeline for the new SOP that is inevitably dropping ➡️ Predictions for the SBA landscape in the next 12 months Join Ray and his expert panel as they break down each priority one by one. 💬 What do you think is the biggest priority should be for the SBA? Drop your thoughts in the comments! 🎙This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit lumosdata.com. Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Addressing the SBA Default Crisis ft. Jane Castro, Kay Anderson, and Mike Breckheimer | Ep. 175
03/20/2025
Addressing the SBA Default Crisis ft. Jane Castro, Kay Anderson, and Mike Breckheimer | Ep. 175
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we're tackling one of the hottest topics in the industry: the rising SBA default rates. With concerns mounting over repayment trends, economic conditions, and policy shifts, it's time to cut through the noise and get to the facts. Ray Drew and an expert panel of Art of SBA contributors discuss: ➡️ The 3.69% default rate—how bad is it, really? ➡️ Why defaults are rising and whether it's just economic cycles catching up ➡️ How lenders can proactively manage risk and prevent unnecessary losses ➡️ The impact of interest rate hikes vs. SBA rule changes—what’s really to blame? ➡️ Portfolio management strategies that separate top-performing lenders from the rest Join Ray Drew, Jane Castro, Kay Anderson, and Mike Breckheimer as they analyze the numbers, break down borrower trends, and debate what lenders should be doing right now to navigate the shifting landscape. 💬 Is the concern overblown, or should lenders be worried? Drop your thoughts in the comments! 🎙This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART Want to win over your closing team? Next time you pick up a deal involving titled assets, go to a and request a quote for tax, tag, and title so you can structure your loan correctly right from the jump. When it comes to titling vehicles, boats, and aircrafts, CORPSMART has the knowledge to assist you confidently. CORPSMART offers full service titling solutions, working directly with the local agencies to get your titles processed accurately and on-time. If you’ve struggled with recording titles, reach out to to learn more about their services. Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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The Dogefather Strikes at the SBA ft. Darren Davis, Javier Jorge, and Brooke Mirenda | Ep. 174
03/06/2025
The Dogefather Strikes at the SBA ft. Darren Davis, Javier Jorge, and Brooke Mirenda | Ep. 174
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we’re diving into the Twitter war of the century: Elon Musk vs. the SBA. It all started when Musk called the Small Business Administration the "Shady Business Administration" and claimed that only 8% of SBA loans get paid back. Naturally, we had to set the record straight. Ray Drew and an expert panel of Art of SBA Contributors discuss: ➡️ The impact of Musk’s comments and whether misinformation could disrupt the SBA ➡️ The reality of SBA loan repayment rates (spoiler: it’s not 8%) ➡️ What happens if the SBA 7(a) program is eliminated—would private lenders fill the gap? ➡️ The efficiency of the SBA and whether emerging tech (like AI) could make lending faster ➡️ The future of Community Advantage loans, SBLCs, and potential policy changes Join Ray Drew, Darren Davis, Javier Jorge, and Brooke Mirenda as they unpack the chaos, misinformation, and possible shake-ups in the world of SBA lending. 💬 Drop your thoughts in the comments! Should we be worried about the SBA’s future? 🎙This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit . Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to The Director’s Retreat Join us May 4-5 in Savannah, Georgia, for an exclusive event tailored to the heads of SBA 7(a) lending programs. This retreat is your chance to collaborate with peers, share insights, and tackle the unique challenges of leading SBA lending programs. Don’t miss out—register now to secure your spot! SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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BDO Power Panel: Live from the BDO Retreat ft. Glenn Giro, Alan Peterson & Jared W Johnson | Ep. 173
02/20/2025
BDO Power Panel: Live from the BDO Retreat ft. Glenn Giro, Alan Peterson & Jared W Johnson | Ep. 173
What does it take to rise as a leader in the competitive and ever-changing SBA lending space? In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, we’re joined by Glenn Giro, Alan Peterson, and Jared W. Johnson—three industry leaders who share their insights into navigating the dynamic world of SBA lending, overcoming challenges, and seizing new opportunities. SBA lending is full of growth potential, but it’s not without its challenges. Today, we dive into how these experts are leading the charge, adapting to market changes, and embracing innovation to stay ahead. Key topics include: • Overcoming the latest challenges in SBA lending • The importance of mentorship in shaping your career • How Increased competition is reshaping the industry • Navigating difficult situations in your day to day Whether you're an emerging lender or a seasoned professional, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you navigate the evolving SBA landscape and lead with confidence. This episode is sponsored by: Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to The Director’s Retreat Join us May 4-5 in Savannah, Georgia, for an exclusive event tailored to the heads of SBA 7(a) lending programs. This retreat is your chance to collaborate with peers, share insights, and tackle the unique challenges of leading SBA lending programs. Don’t miss out—register now to secure your spot! SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! The SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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NexGen Panel (Part 2): Fresh Perspectives on SBA Lending Featuring 3 Rising Stars | Ep. 172
02/06/2025
NexGen Panel (Part 2): Fresh Perspectives on SBA Lending Featuring 3 Rising Stars | Ep. 172
The conversation continues! In Part 2 of this special The Art of SBA Lending series, Ray Drew picks up where we left off with Molly Harder, Rob Parkin, and Jane Castro—three rising leaders in SBA lending—to dive deeper into the challenges, innovations, and hard-earned wisdom that define their careers. SBA lending is evolving, and those who adapt will lead the way. In this episode, we discuss the role of mentorship, the impact of AI, and how today’s trends—like rising interest rates and small loan programs—are shaping the future of the industry. Key topics include: • The role of mentorship in long-term career success • The impact of AI and automation on SBA lending—opportunities and concerns • How industry trends like rising interest rates and small loan programs are shaping the future • The need for innovation and how up-and-coming leaders can drive change With candid insights and practical advice from: Molly Harder, SBA Risk Compliance Manager at First Horizon Rob Parkin, SBA Credit Director at Truliant Jane Castro, SBA Portfolio Manager at Fund-Ex Solutions Group If you enjoyed Part 1, you won’t want to miss the rest of this insightful discussion. Whether you’re a veteran in the space or just starting out, this episode offers a forward-looking perspective on where SBA lending is headed—and how to be part of its evolution. This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART CORPSMART is a due diligence group that specializes in line searching, UCC filing, DMV title recordings and more. If you're looking to streamline your process, the CORPSMART team is the best resource, offering a wide range of services, capability to directly integrate with your in-house systems, and the icing on the cake, their over-the-top customer service, making every deal that much easier to close To discuss your due diligence needs visit the CORPSMART website at for more information or to set up a get acquainted call, email McKenna Weiks at - and let them know that the Art of SBA sent you! Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to The Director's Retreat Join us May 4-5 in Savannah, Georgia, for an exclusive event tailored to the heads of SBA 7(a) lending programs. This retreat is your chance to collaborate with peers, share insights, and tackle the unique challenges of leading SBA lending programs. Don’t miss out—register now to secure your spot! SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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NexGen Panel: Fresh Perspectives on SBA Lending Featuring 3 Rising Stars (Part 1) | Ep. 171
01/30/2025
NexGen Panel: Fresh Perspectives on SBA Lending Featuring 3 Rising Stars (Part 1) | Ep. 171
What does it take to rise as a leader in the competitive and ever-changing SBA lending space? In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray Drew is joined by Molly Harder, Rob Parkin, and Jane Castro—three of the brightest up-and-coming leaders in SBA lending—to explore their journeys, challenges, and visions for the future of the industry. SBA lending is complex, but it’s also filled with opportunities to grow, innovate, and leave a lasting impact. Today, we’re diving into how these professionals are navigating career bottlenecks, leveraging mentorship, and balancing the demands of leadership while maintaining strong relationships. Key topics include: Overcoming early challenges and finding inspiration in mentorship The biggest trends shaping SBA lending, from technology to industry shakeups How to foster a collaborative, positive culture in SBA divisions Strategies for balancing production goals with strong client relationships With candid insights and actionable advice from: Molly Harder, SBA Risk Compliance Manager Rob Parkin, SBA Credit Director at Truliant Jane Castro, SBA Lending Professional Whether you’re a seasoned BDO or just beginning your career in SBA lending, this episode offers invaluable perspectives on building a legacy of leadership and innovation in the industry. This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit . Shatterbox Learn how Shatterbox can help you hire and invest in bright young talent without breaking the bank. Go to and set up a discovery call today. SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Big Updates from Art of SBA HQ
01/15/2025
Big Updates from Art of SBA HQ
🚨 Here’s what’s new for The Art of SBA Lending in 2025! 🚨 1️⃣ The Directors Retreat An exclusive event for SBA 7(a) division heads, happening May 4th & 5th at the Bohemian Hotel in Savannah, GA. Only 10 seats available! Reserve your spot: 2️⃣ SBA Jobs Board Our new jobs board is live! For just $99, post your open SBA lending positions and connect with top talent in the SBA community. Learn more: 3️⃣ Podcast Season Update We’re gearing up for a new season of The Art of SBA Lending featuring: A two-part episode with emerging SBA leaders A behind-the-scenes look at this year’s Annual BDO Retreat Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing! Got questions or ideas? Reach out to us: 📧 🔔 Subscribe and stay tuned for more updates!
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The Elon Musk of SBA Lending (Season Finale) feat. Chris Hurn | Ep. 170
12/19/2024
The Elon Musk of SBA Lending (Season Finale) feat. Chris Hurn | Ep. 170
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray Drew sits down with Chris Hurn to explore the complexities of entrepreneurship, leadership, and finance. Chris shares the story of winding down his previous company, Fountainhead, navigating the challenges of partnerships, and transitioning to his latest venture—a business bank in West Georgia. From educating clients about SBA loans to building a team that aligns with company culture, Chris highlights the balancing act between growth, innovation, and risk. He also offers insights into: The risks and rewards of entrepreneurship Effective marketing strategies for the modern business landscape Navigating the competitive world of SBA lending and business acquisitions Join Ray and Chris for a candid conversation about the evolving business world, and gain valuable takeaways for your own journey. Be sure to subscribe to keep up with the rest of our Vegas interview series from NAGGL 2024! This episode is sponsored by: The Content Store The Content Store is a video content agency specialized in podcast, YouTube, and short form video editing. Elevate your brand with premium video content today. Go to to get in touch. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Largest SBA Loan Service Provider Gets Acquired (again) feat. Mike Breckheimer | Ep. 169
12/12/2024
Largest SBA Loan Service Provider Gets Acquired (again) feat. Mike Breckheimer | Ep. 169
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray sits down with Mike Breckheimer at NAGGL 2024 to discuss the ins and outs of starting a lender service provider (LSP) business and navigating the SBA ecosystem. Mike shares his extensive experience building turnkey solutions for banks, credit unions, and other institutions looking to outsource SBA loan operations. He dives into the intricate balance of compliance, relationship building, and patience required to thrive in this niche industry. Key Highlights: Starting an LSP: Learn the essential steps to establish yourself as a trusted SBA lender service provider, including the necessary regulatory steps with OCRM. Sales Strategies for LSPs: Mike explains the long sales cycle when working with banks and credit unions and how patience was the key during the process. Navigating SBA Oversight: Discover the role of OCRM in reviewing lender service provider agreements and maintaining oversight in the SBA ecosystem. Tech & Innovation in SBA Lending: Explore how emerging technology and data analytics are reshaping the SBA lending landscape. Whether you're an aspiring LSP entrepreneur or a seasoned professional curious about industry trends, this episode is packed with valuable insights on the current state of SBA lending. Don’t miss out on our exclusive NAGGL interview series—subscribe now to catch every episode! This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Data Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit . Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new Art of SBA Website | BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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The Fixer: Managing Risk and Taking Names feat. Brent Ciurlino | Ep. 168
11/28/2024
The Fixer: Managing Risk and Taking Names feat. Brent Ciurlino | Ep. 168
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending Ray is joined by Brent Ciurlino at NAGGL as they unpack Brent’s background in risk management and where he got his reputation as: "the fixer” Brent held significant roles, including the Director of Asset Marketing at the FDIC and several senior positions within SBA-regulated entities. His current position is with Velocity, an SBLC, where he oversees the company's strategic growth and risk management operations. Known for his innovative contributions to SBA oversight mechanisms, he has been instrumental in developing key regulatory frameworks. Moreover, Brent explains his contributions to the development of the OCRM's oversight tools like PARIS and SMARt, and his experiences in guiding multiple SBA-licensed entities through times of economic uncertainty. Key Takeaways: Strategic Growth in SBA Lending: Understand the dynamics of expanding SBA lending operations sustainably and effectively. Navigating Non-Bank Lender Challenges: Explore the pressures and regulatory requirements faced by non-bank lenders in the SBA landscape. Advocating for Risk Management: Learn the importance of balanced risk management in preventing institutional failures. Listen in as Brent and Ray explore the evolving market, the significance of risk management, and insights on navigating SBA's complex regulations. Be sure to subscribe to keep up with the rest of our Vegas interview series from NAGGL 2024! This episode is sponsored by: Baker Lewis Baker Lewis is the SBA lending industry’s premier executive search and personnel consulting firm. Schedule a call by reaching out to Dustin Baker at 940-230-4321. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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SBA Operations: The Backbone of The Industry feat. Jackie Bogdan | Ep. 167
11/21/2024
SBA Operations: The Backbone of The Industry feat. Jackie Bogdan | Ep. 167
This week on The Art of SBA Lending Podcast we have another special guest joining us for an interview live from the NAGGL conference in Vegas. Welcome Jackie Bogdan! We’re getting into all things operations, execution and closing. Tune in now and subscribe to stay in the loop for more episodes! This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART CORPSMART is a due diligence group that specializes in lien searching, UCC filing, DMV title recordings and more. If you're looking to streamline your process, the CORPSMART team is the best resource, offering a wide range of services, capability to directly integrate with your in-house systems, and the icing on the cake, their over-the-top customer service, making every deal that much easier to close To discuss your due diligence needs visit the CORPSMART website at for more information or to set up a get acquainted call, email McKenna Weiks at - and let them know that the Art of SBA sent you! Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Adding Value to your Team, Your Bank, & Your Borrowers feat. Michael Johnston | Ep. 166
11/14/2024
Adding Value to your Team, Your Bank, & Your Borrowers feat. Michael Johnston | Ep. 166
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending Ray is joined by Michael Johnston at NAGGL as they explore Michael’s journey from BDO to national sales manager and his approach to driving value at every stage of the SBA lending process. Michael shares his vision of SBA lending in today’s evolving landscape, where efficiency, accountability, and teamwork are non-negotiable. Aiming to streamline small-balance loan processing to as little as 2-5 days, Michael highlights the role of technology, a strong referral network, and consistent credit philosophy. He also provides insight into the qualities he looks for in BDOs—highly motivated “grinders” who are dedicated to getting results. Key Takeaways: Strategic Growth: How Michael leverages digital marketing, a robust broker network, and high-efficiency standards, noting how steady, methodical growth is preferred over rapid expansion that could be difficult to sustain. Team Dynamics: The importance of hiring the right people, fostering a collaborative culture, and maintaining a consistent credit philosophy across the board. Process Efficiency: Practical ways to reduce approval times, enhance productivity, and meet client expectations without sacrificing quality or accuracy. Listen in as Michael and Ray discuss how to bring value to your team, your bank, and your borrowers in this engaging and informative episode. Be sure to subscribe to keep up with the rest of our Vegas interview series from NAGGL 2024! This episode is sponsored by: Baker Lewis Baker Lewis is the SBA lending industry’s premier executive search and personnel consulting firm. Schedule a call by reaching out to Dustin Baker at 940-230-4321. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to SBA Jobs Board Hiring for your SBA department? We’ve got you covered! SBA Jobs Board is here to bridge the gap between you and top SBA talent. Our Art of SBA Lending audience is packed with experts ready for their next career move. List your openings with us to connect with the best in the industry and find the right fit for your team. Live now on our new BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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The Future of the SBA 7a Program feat. Mike Breckheimer, Charles Rho, & Bob Coleman | Ep. 165
11/07/2024
The Future of the SBA 7a Program feat. Mike Breckheimer, Charles Rho, & Bob Coleman | Ep. 165
This week on The Art of SBA Lending we’re bringing you through the evolution of The SBA. What started as a small-scale government program in 1953 has grown into a $35+ billion industry, touching every corner of U.S. business. In this episode, The Art of SBA Lending explores the dynamic story of SBA 7(a) – and the potential paths it might take. Ray and an expert panel of Art of SBA Contributors discuss: ➡️ Reaction to the bold changes of 2023: whether the concerns surrounding the sweeping changes made in 2023, such as the “Do What You Do” policy and new SBLC licenses, were justified or overblown. ➡️ Zero-subsidy model: Ray asks the panel if they think the zero-subsidy model (where the program is funded through fees, not government appropriations) will continue, considering the government’s massive deficits and spending. ➡️ Emerging technologies: The panel shares thoughts on emerging technologies that could transform the SBA lending space. As well as desired and anticipated changes for the industry over the next 5 years and what it’s going to take to stand out. Join Ray Drew, Bob Coleman, Charles Rho, and Mike Breckheimer as they reflect on where SBA 7(a) is headed next. 🎙️ This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART CORPSMART is a due diligence group that specializes in lien searching, UCC filing, DMV title recordings and more. If you're looking to streamline your process, the CORPSMART team is the best resource, offering a wide range of services, capability to directly integrate with your in-house systems, and the icing on the cake, their over-the-top customer service, making every deal that much easier to close To discuss your due diligence needs visit the CORPSMART website at for more information or to set up a get acquainted call, email McKenna Weiks at - and let them know that the Art of SBA sent you! Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below!
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What It Takes to Create Raving Fans in SBA Lending feat. Charles H Green, Chris Hurn, & Javier Jorge | Ep. 164
10/31/2024
What It Takes to Create Raving Fans in SBA Lending feat. Charles H Green, Chris Hurn, & Javier Jorge | Ep. 164
What does it take to make your borrowers so happy that they can’t stop talking about their experience? In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray Drew is joined by a panel of SBA lending pros to discuss how to elevate your customer service game and turn borrowers into raving fans. SBA loans can be complex, and the journey to closing is rarely easy. But top producers know that exceptional service isn’t about avoiding obstacles—it’s about guiding your borrower through them with empathy, attention, and solutions. Today, we’re sharing five proven methods that will not only enhance your borrower’s experience but also create lifelong advocates for your services. Key topics include: Why empathy is a game-changer in borrower relationships The power of doing the unexpected to create a lasting impression Aligning your services with borrower needs to generate true loyalty With expert insights from our panel of Art of SBA Contributors: Chris Hurn, SBA Lending Expert Javier Jorge, Director of Government Guaranteed Lending at Locality Bank Charles Green, SVP at Harvest Small Business Finance Whether you’re an established BDO or just starting out, this episode offers invaluable advice for creating the kind of borrower experience that leads to repeat business and enthusiastic referrals. This episode is sponsored by: The Content Store The Content Store is a video content agency specialized in podcast, YouTube, and short form video editing. Elevate your brand with premium video content today. Go to to get in touch. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Getting Rid of the "All Available Collateral" Rule feat. Brian Carlson, Bob Coleman, & Darren Davis | Ep. 163
10/24/2024
Getting Rid of the "All Available Collateral" Rule feat. Brian Carlson, Bob Coleman, & Darren Davis | Ep. 163
The Art of SBA Lending Podcast is back this week with a new episode full of big ideas, fresh perspectives, and one (more) especially bold opinion from Ray. Join Ray and an expert panel of contributors as they explore the top trending topics in the SBA industry right now: The “big fish” trend—how top lenders are taking over more of the SBA market, and what that means for small-midsized shops How lenders approach the SOP’s grey areas—practical tips for new and experienced lenders Ray’s proposal to eliminate the all available collateral rule—why it makes sense, and how it will grow the program. This week’s panel of Art of SBA Contributors includes: 🎙️ Bob Coleman - Founder of The Coleman Report 🎙️ Brian Carlson - Managing Director at Mission Valley Bank 🎙️ Darren Davis - President of SBA Lending at Colony Bank Tune in for an insightful conversation on how the industry is evolving, how to navigate its current position, and where it’s headed next. This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Data Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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10 Culture-Killers: A Practical Guide on Building Culture | Ep. 162
10/17/2024
10 Culture-Killers: A Practical Guide on Building Culture | Ep. 162
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, we’re diving into the heart of building a strong and intentional company culture. Ray and our panel of experts discuss why defining a company’s culture goes beyond labeling it as “good” or “bad.” Instead, it’s about identifying what makes your organization unique and aligning it with the values and behaviors you want to see reflected in your team every day. We’ll explore: The importance of crafting clear, actionable core values and how they can serve as the backbone of a successful culture How to embed these values throughout your operations, from hiring practices to daily interactions Ray’s top 10 “culture killers” and the steps you can take to eliminate them from your organization, ensuring a positive and productive work environment Our panel of Art of SBA Contributors bring a wealth of experience and insights to the conversation: -Chris Hurn -Brooke Mirenda, President & CEO of SEDCO -Jeannie Yoder, SBA Regional Executive at United Community Bank. Whether you’re just starting to build a culture from the ground up or looking to refine the one you have, this episode offers essential insights and actionable advice. We’ll share real-world examples, personal experiences, and tested strategies to help you create a place where people want to work, grow, and succeed. Tune in today and let us know what you think! This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART CORPSMART is a due diligence group that specializes in lien searching, UCC filing, DMV title recordings and more. If you're looking to streamline your process, the CORPSMART team is the best resource, offering a wide range of services, capability to directly integrate with your in-house systems, and the icing on the cake, their over-the-top customer service, making every deal that much easier to close To discuss your due diligence needs visit the CORPSMART website at for more information or to set up a get acquainted call, email McKenna Weiks at - and let them know that the Art of SBA sent you! Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Combining 504 and 7(a) into 1 program feat. Ken Rosenthal, Brooke Mirenda, & Mitch Fogel | Ep. 161
10/10/2024
Combining 504 and 7(a) into 1 program feat. Ken Rosenthal, Brooke Mirenda, & Mitch Fogel | Ep. 161
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we’re bringing a big, new idea to the table: what if we could combine the SBA 7a and 504 programs into a single powerhouse loan program? In this episode, Ray Drew and our panel of Art of SBA Contributors explore the possibility of merging these two essential programs to create what Ray calls the “SBA Centaur Loan.” By taking the flexibility of the 7a program and pairing it with the affordability and stability of the 504, could we make SBA lending more accessible and efficient for small businesses? Our expert panel dives into some critical questions, including: The historical roots of 7a and 504: Why were two separate programs created, and do we still need both? Potential benefits for lenders and borrowers: How could a unified program enhance small business lending and streamline the process? Challenges and risks of a merged program: From secondary markets to regulatory impacts, what would a single program mean for the SBA community? Art of SBA Contributors this week: ✨ Brooke Mirenda, President & CEO, SEDCO ✨ Ken Rosenthal, Senior Advisor, Momentus Direct Capital ✨ Mitch Fogel, Managing Partner, Fogel Law Group Join us for an innovative discussion that examines the future of SBA lending, the pros and cons of combining these two programs, and how we might reimagine access to capital for America’s small businesses. Don’t miss this thought-provoking episode and let us know your thoughts! This episode is sponsored by: The Content Store The Content Store is a video content agency specialized in podcast, YouTube, and short form video editing. Elevate your brand with premium video content today. Go to to get in touch. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! .youtube.com Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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BDO Career Paths ft. Jeannie Yoder, Dustin Baker, & Jared Johnson | Ep. 160
10/03/2024
BDO Career Paths ft. Jeannie Yoder, Dustin Baker, & Jared Johnson | Ep. 160
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray tackles a question many top-producing BDOs face: What's next? For those constantly pushing themselves to the next level, it’s not just about the numbers—it’s about growth, challenge, and finding fulfillment in their career. Ray dives into the various career paths for high-performing BDOs and unpacks the unique challenges and opportunities that come with each option: Scaling to the $100 million mark: What does it take, and is it worth the risk of burnout? Transitioning to sales management: Can managing a team offer the next level of satisfaction, or is the pay cut too steep? Becoming a shop director: What does it look like to lead your own SBA department? Can this role provide both the challenge and compensation that top BDOs are seeking? We also explore the emerging idea of the "Mini-Director" role, where BDOs can continue to grow without sacrificing income or independence. This episode is packed with real-world insights from a stellar panel of Art of SBA contributors: Dustin Baker - CEO and Cofounder of Shatterbox Jeannie Yoder - SBA Regional Executive at United Community Bank Jared Johnson - Senior Business Development Officer at First Internet Bank Whether you’re looking to expand your production or explore new career paths, this episode is for you. Tune in to learn how top BDOs are leveling up and what you can do to take the next step in your SBA lending career. Baker Lewis Baker Lewis is the SBA lending industry’s premier executive search and personnel consulting firm. Schedule a call by reaching out to Dustin Baker at 940-230-4321. [Rapid Business Plans] Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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BDO Career Paths ft. Jeannie Yoder, Dustin Baker, & Jared Johnson | Ep. 160
10/03/2024
BDO Career Paths ft. Jeannie Yoder, Dustin Baker, & Jared Johnson | Ep. 160
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray tackles a question many top-producing BDOs face: What's next? For those constantly pushing themselves to the next level, it’s not just about the numbers—it’s about growth, challenge, and finding fulfillment in their career. Ray dives into the various career paths for high-performing BDOs and unpacks the unique challenges and opportunities that come with each option: Scaling to the $100 million mark: What does it take, and is it worth the risk of burnout? Transitioning to sales management: Can managing a team offer the next level of satisfaction, or is the pay cut too steep? Becoming a shop director: What does it look like to lead your own SBA department? Can this role provide both the challenge and compensation that top BDOs are seeking? We also explore the emerging idea of the "Mini-Director" role, where BDOs can continue to grow without sacrificing income or independence. This episode is packed with real-world insights from a stellar panel of Art of SBA contributors: Dustin Baker - CEO and Cofounder of Shatterbox Jeannie Yoder - SBA Regional Executive at United Community Bank Jared Johnson - Senior Business Development Officer at First Internet Bank Whether you’re looking to expand your production or explore new career paths, this episode is for you. Tune in to learn how top BDOs are leveling up and what you can do to take the next step in your SBA lending career. Baker Lewis Baker Lewis is the SBA lending industry’s premier executive search and personnel consulting firm. Schedule a call by reaching out to Dustin Baker at 940-230-4321. [Rapid Business Plans] Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Incentivizing SBA Closers and Underwriters feat. Chris Kwiatkowski, Dustin Baker, & Darren Davis | Ep. 159
09/26/2024
Incentivizing SBA Closers and Underwriters feat. Chris Kwiatkowski, Dustin Baker, & Darren Davis | Ep. 159
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, Ray Drew tackles the big question that can’t be ignored: Should we be paying underwriters and closers based on production? From bonuses to performance metrics, we’re exploring what it would take to reshape compensation in SBA lending. How do you incentivize underwriters and closers in a way that drives performance without crossing compliance lines? Ray is joined by this weeks Art of SBA Contributors: Dustin Baker, CEO and Co-Founder of Shatterbox Chris Kwiatkowski, President of Government Guaranteed Lending at Dogwood State Bank Darren Davis, President of SBA Lending at Colony Bank We’re covering: Why aligning compensation with performance could improve underwriting and closing speeds The risks and benefits of incentivizing non-BDO roles How incentive plans could attract new talent and boost retention How to navigate SBA compliance when implementing new pay structures 🎧 Tune in to this thought-provoking discussion and see how a shift in compensation could change your shop’s performance dynamics. Listen in today and let us know what you think in the comments or by leaving a review! This episode is sponsored by: Baker Lewis Baker Lewis is the SBA lending industry’s premier executive search and personnel consulting firm. Schedule a call by reaching out to Dustin Baker at 940-230-4321. Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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How to Build a Credit Box feat. Brian Carlson, Jeannie Yoder, & Chris Kwiatkowski | Ep. 158
09/19/2024
How to Build a Credit Box feat. Brian Carlson, Jeannie Yoder, & Chris Kwiatkowski | Ep. 158
This week on The Art of SBA Lending, we’re diving deep into the framework that defines SBA lending success—the credit box. Ray is joined by our panel of experts to explore how SBA shops build and refine their credit boxes to manage risk and go to market with a competitive product. What does it take to build a successful SBA credit box? Is your credit box ready for the future? With insights from this weeks Art of SBA panelists: Jeannie Yoder, SBA Regional Executive at United Community Bank Brian Carlson, SBA Managing Director at Mission Valley Bank Chris Kwiatkowski, President of Government Guaranteed Lending at Dogwood State Bank We're covering: -How to design a credit matrix that reflects your risk appetite -The role of competition in shaping your credit guidelines -Balancing conservative vs. aggressive underwriting -Post-close liquidity and its importance in credit risk assessment -The impact of regulatory compliance on your credit box decisions Tune in now for a conversation that could redefine your approach to SBA lending and leave us a review! This episode is sponsored by: CORPSMART CORPSMART is a due diligence group that specializes in lien searching, UCC filing, DMV title recordings and more. If you're looking to streamline your process, the CORPSMART team is the best resource, offering a wide range of services, capability to directly integrate with your in-house systems, and the icing on the cake, their over-the-top customer service, making every deal that much easier to close To discuss your due diligence needs visit the CORPSMART website at for more information or to set up a get acquainted call, email McKenna Weiks at - and let them know that the Art of SBA sent you! Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Broker Compensation feat. Charles H. Green, Javier Jorge, & Kay Anderson | Ep. 157
09/12/2024
Broker Compensation feat. Charles H. Green, Javier Jorge, & Kay Anderson | Ep. 157
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, we’re diving into one of the hottest and most complex topics in the industry today: broker compensation in SBA lending. As the competition for volume in the 7(a) space heats up, broker fees are on the rise—sometimes dramatically so. But what does that mean for the industry, lenders, and ultimately, the borrowers? Join us as Ray brings in another panel of expert Art of SBA Contributors to dissect the impact of increasing broker referral fees and the ripple effects they have on SBA lending. Is higher compensation pushing brokers to steer deals toward banks that offer the highest payout rather than the best solution for the borrower? And are those costs being passed on to the small business owner in the form of higher interest rates? In this episode, we’ll break down: The ethics and impact of rising broker compensation How higher referral fees could affect borrower pricing Why banks might be "buying" business rather than earning it A proposed solution to ensure transparency and competition in the industry Joining us are top SBA professionals: Charles Green, SVP at Harvest Kay Anderson, SVP at Live Oak Bank Javier Jorge, CEO of Chatbiz and SBA Director at Locality Bank Tune in for a candid conversation on what’s driving broker compensation trends and what the future of SBA lending might look like if these practices continue. This episode is sponsored by: Lumos Data Lumos empowers your small business lending growth with cutting-edge analytics and streamlined applications that optimize your performance. If you're ready to take your small business lending to the next level with cutting edge analytics visit . Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to https://rapidbusinessplans.com/art-of-sba Join us at FLAGGL! Catch Ray Drew, Chris Hackney, Alan Peterson, and Sterling Birdsong speak at the FLAGGL conference on September 19th in Orlando, FL Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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The Great Debate: 504 vs 7(a) for Real Estate feat. Charles H. Green, Ken Rosenthal, & Brooke Mirenda | Ep. 156
09/05/2024
The Great Debate: 504 vs 7(a) for Real Estate feat. Charles H. Green, Ken Rosenthal, & Brooke Mirenda | Ep. 156
This week on The Art of SBA Lending we’re diving into a critical industry debate: the strategic differences between 504 and 7(a) loans for real estate. This episode will explore: Distinct Features: Analyze the structural nuances and financial mechanisms of 504 versus 7(a) loans. Strategic Considerations: Examine scenarios where each loan type offers superior advantages, focusing on factors like loan flexibility, interest rates, and collateral requirements. Impact Analysis: Evaluate how the choice between these loans affects long-term business relationships and portfolio health. Featuring expert insights from leading industry experts and Art of SBA Contributors: Charles Green, SVP at Harvest Ken Rosenthal, Senior Advisor at Momentus Direct Capital Brooke Mirenda, President and CEO of SEDCO 🎧 Join us on The Art of SBA Lending for a session filled with expert analysis and debate designed exclusively for SBA lenders and professionals. Tune in to gain insights that will enhance your professional practice and help navigate your decision-making process in real estate lending. This episode is sponsored by: The Content Store is a video content agency specialized in podcast, YouTube, and short form video editing. Elevate your brand with premium video content today. Go to to get in touch. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to Join us at FLAGGL! Catch Ray Drew, Chris Hackney, Alan Peterson, and Sterling Birdsong speak at the FLAGGL conference on September 19th in Orlando, FL Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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Cultivating Your Own Talent (Best Practices) | Ep. 155
08/29/2024
Cultivating Your Own Talent (Best Practices) | Ep. 155
In this episode of The Art of SBA Lending, we dive into another crucial conversation: how do we not only attract, but also train and retain the next generation of SBA professionals? From the great financial collapse to a $37 billion year in 2021, the landscape has drastically changed. Yet, the challenge remains: cultivating a workforce that is not only skilled, but is also loyal. Welcome our Art of SBA Contributors for this week: Dustin Baker, CEO & Cofounder of Shatterbox Chris Kwiatkowski, President of Government Guaranteed Lending at Dogwood State Bank Javier Jorge, SBA Director at Lake Michigan Credit Union and Founder of ChatBiz Key Topics: Evolution of SBA hiring from post-recession recovery to today's in-demand market. Strategies to attract, train, and retain talented professionals in a competitive landscape. Creating a culture that aligns with modern workforce expectations. Balancing the investment in new employees with the risk of them being poached. Join us as our expert panel explores how successful SBA lenders are addressing these challenges. Our contributors are leaving us with actionable insights and advice, tailored for anyone aiming to enhance their team dynamics and operational success in today's SBA lending environment. This episode is sponsored by: Baker Lewis Baker Lewis is the SBA lending industry’s premier executive search and personnel consulting firm. Rapid Business Plans Rapid Business Plans is the go-to provider of business plans and feasibility studies for government guaranteed small business lenders. For more information, or to set up a Get Acquainted call go to Loving The Art of SBA Lending episodes? Make sure to follow along with our sister shows, The BDO Show and SBA Today, each week with the links below! BDO’s…let’s start your weeks strong! Sign up for our weekly sales advice series, Sales Ammo. Every Monday morning wake up to a piece of Rays sales advice in your inbox to help you rise to the top. Subscribe here: Head to for more information and to sign up for our must-read monthly newsletter to stay up to date with The Art of SBA Lending.
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