The Courageous Pastors Podcast

The Courageous Pastors Podcast provides church + ministry leaders with the tools to recapture or keep momentum by addressing the place, the people, and the processes needed to maintain forward movement through our Gears of Growth Framework (Culture, Team, Systems).

S2E6: Jeff Kapusta: Encouragement for Church Planters & The Courageous Pastors Gathering 2024 11/28/2023

S2E5: Greg Surratt | The Need for Rest (Living Well & Finishing Strong) 10/24/2023

S2E4: Rodney Gage | Achieving the Double Win (Success at Work AND at Home) 09/26/2023

S2E3: Harold Melton | Social Justice: The Right Response & Making an Impact 08/29/2023

S2E2: Vance Roush, Overflow | Generosity in the Digital Age 07/25/2023

S2E1: Chris Bell | What Kind of Culture Are You Setting? 06/29/2023

Your marriage can tell a story bigger than you (Jeremy & Corrie Isaacs) 10/13/2022

Don't underestimate where you are now (w/ Kyle Jackson) 09/29/2022

How to lead like a boss when you’re not the lead guy (w/ Kevin Lloyd) 08/25/2022

What we’ve learned from 24 leaders of various ages and different races all serving in scattered places 08/11/2022

How to take the baton from a seasoned leader (so you can later hand if off to someone else) (with Clay Smith) 06/23/2022

A healthy you creates a healthier org (w/ Jonathan Moore) 06/09/2022

Welcome to our tribe (w/ JC Worley) 05/26/2022

Increase your “care equity” (w/ Michael Turner) 05/12/2022

Increase your “care equity” (w/ Michael Turner) Michael Turner is the founding and lead pastor of Turning Point Church in McDonough, GA— south of Atlanta. The church turned 19 in March 2022. Recently, Michael gifted everyone on his staff with a Fitbit— as part of a 30-day fitness challenge. They decided to evaluate three areas: Steps per day Weekly weight loss Sleep hours per night This quick accountability— especially the “sleep part”— highlighted what was truly happening with everyone’s health. And, as Michael reminds us, the challenge connects us to the idea that we’re about TOTAL HEALTH and wellbeing, not just spiritual health. Furthermore, this step was important because it helped him lead his team towards PERSONAL development as well as the PROFESSIONAL development we usually focus upon. Lately, Michael actually HAS been working on some of the PROFESSIONAL things, though… For instance, his church has focused on reclaiming the “in person” gatherings. Sure, there are a lot of empty chairs. (The truth is that, post-Covid, most churches have MANY empty chairs.) “But preaching to SOME empty chairs,” Michael says, “is much better than preaching to ONLY empty chairs and a camera.” As they reclaim the gatherings, they’re adjusting their metrics as well. “Attendance isn’t the only indicator,” he says. “There’s so much more… like engagement. And connection.” They’re also evaluating things like finances and relationships and other items we may not have measured in the past. Michael embraces the perspective-shift. His church has experienced seasons of fast-growth. And, when they did, he learned that EVERYTHING— including unhealth— replicates quickly. That is, unhealthy culture multiplies. Hidden assumptions, underneath-the-surface hurts, and other doubts replicate quickly, as well… “You can’t outgrow unhealth,” he says. “At some point you must deal with the issues.” He’s learned to celebrate those moments of fast growth, but to pay attention to the things that mater even more— like the pulse of his staff, as well as their personal lives. “We’ve got to care about them,” he says, “more than we care about growth.” During the pandemic, he learned to focus even more on caring for people— not just his team but others in his church, too. “We began reaching out and actually CALLING people on the telephone,” he says. Then— “We also sent hand-written birthday cards. And DoorDash gifts…” The connections multiplied as they discovered new ways to connect and reconnect. “We even dropped by people’s homes and visited them,” he offers. “Everyone was always so excited to see us.” He refers to all of this as “Care Equity,” and suggest it’s one of the most important metrics you have. ++++++++ Shawn’s book, Building a Killer Team Without Killing Yourself or Your Team: Personal Gears of Growth = take the assessment here: Access the free Killer Teams Crash Course at Register for a free Strategy Session at Learn more about Michael’s church at /episode/index/show/thecourageouspastors/id/23019173

Crisis creates space where we see what really matters (w/ Brandon Bilbo) 04/28/2022

Crisis creates space where we see what really matters (w/ Brandon Bilbo) When you meet Brandon Bilbo two things strike you: He’s a bit country, and He’s a brilliant leader Back in 2014 Brandon was a financial advisor, managing a $30MM portfolio. Then he felt called to plant Cross Church in Houma— 20 miles south of New Orleans. For the first 18 months, he pulled double-duty, pastoring during the nights and weekends while working full-time during the normal 9-5 workweek. In its first 6 years, the church grew to 1,200 in attendance. Recently, Brandon’s area was hit by Hurricane Ida— a high-level hurricane that produced flooding as far away as New York City. The wind was so strong in “blew out” the wind gauges. As Brandon says, “It was catastrophic. Everyone was touched by the trauma.” The day after the storm, Brandon saw his church in action. Turns out, they could move faster than the government because they weren’t hamstrung by bureaucracies and processes. And, very quickly, churches began working TOGETHER to help people in need. Brandon makes an observation, “Pastors in the US pull together when there’s a disaster. In other nations where I’ve been on mission trips, they pull together all the time. That’s just how they do it.” He encourages us to make those connections NOW— knowing that, at some point, troubles are coming. Develop the relationships, nurture them… and enjoy them. Eventually, we will need them in other ways. The recent storms provided a platform for the church to reach everyone, everywhere. Literally. “Everyone had some degree of damage,” he says, “and so everyone was reachable in some way.” One day, in a distribution line, 79 people gave their lives to Jesus. Even though there was no sermon. Even though there was no altar call. On another day, they asked people who came for help if they wanted prayer. Not a single person turned them down. An elderly woman had multiple trees down in her yard. She’d just survived Covid and was now devastated by the disaster. Whereas tree companies price-gouged, volunteers from the church arrived at her home and helped her free of charge. She began weeping. It was the tangible love of Christ in action. “Problems become our opportunity, our chance, to love people,” Brandon reminds us. “That is, if we can keep our poise when those things happen. We still preach the same message we were preaching 2 years ago. But, in some way, it’s a bit different. It’s less about “come and see” and more about “we’re coming to you.” ++++++++++++++ The Killer Teams Crash Course = www.CourageousPastors.com/cc Schedule a free Strategy Session: Brandon’s Church, Cross Church = and Brandon is a coach with = /episode/index/show/thecourageouspastors/id/23019056

Focus on where you are, not where you were (w/ Adam Weber) 04/07/2022

Don’t take it personal, but make it personal (w/ Pastor Quovadis Marshall) 03/24/2022

Look back + live forward (w/ Jeff Leake) 03/10/2022

Look back + live forward (w/ Jeff Leake) Jeff Leake has been pastoring a long time. He was the pastoral assistant 30 years ago. Two years in, the lead pastor moved to CA to work at another church… Jeff stepped into the interim role, then became the lead pastor. Today, he leads the same church— now a multi-site congregation, spanning 6 physical locations, in the PIttsburgh area. During this season he enjoys looking back and serving young leaders, pastors who stand in the position he found himself three decades ago. More so, he especially likes serving young leaders who want to plant a church. In this episode Jeff mentions “the good ol’ days.” It’s easy to look back and live nostalgically. But that’s not what he refers to at all. He doesn’t suggest we should just look back in order to complain about the present, either. Rather, looking back is a way to remind us of God’s goodness, His faithfulness… Recently, Jeff rode through a nearby area with the leader of one of their first church plants outside the Pittsburgh area. “We drove through the streets,” he said, “and I remembered our drive years before— when the church didn’t exist, when it was just an idea, a dream…” He adds, “As I sat on the front row of that church, celebrating that first decade, I was moved to tears. None of this was here just years before.” (We can also learn lesson when we glance in the rear view mirror. People say that experience is a great teacher, but mere experience isn’t. EVALUATED experience, on the other hand, truly is.) “Looking back,” Jeff says, “offers the opportunity to celebrate the faithfulness you can easily forget.” Many pastors faced a “crisis of faith” coming through the pandemic. (Some are still feeling it, in fact.) Jeff refers this to “pruning in the pandemic.” And, he reminds us that “God’s pruning is always for our good AND for future fruit” (see John 15:1f.). “Even when it comes in odd ways,” he adds. “Even then we can look back and see his past faithfulness…” What does this pruning include? Jeff refers to something MANY of the guest on the podcast have referenced: “We’ve been measuring the wrong things.” Or— “We’ve measured the right things in the wrong ways…” Jeff endeavors to transform his church into a “Barnabas house,” that is, a place of encouragement— sacred space which launches people into their calling. Barnabas is the Apostle who sold a plot of land and gave the proceeds to the early church. He’s the leader who stood by Paul, effectively endorsing him when everyone else was still nervous about his recent conversion. He’s the sage who believed in Mark, also, even though he’d bailed on Paul and Barnabas amidst their first mission venture. You know the outputs of these actions… The church had resources to feed the widows and expand its footprint. Paul led mission trips, planted churches, and penned the letters which became the Scriptures we often read. Mark wrote what many believe to be the first Gospel. At each beginning of each of these stories stands that character Barnabas, the one who breathed life into people and pushed them— in a healthy way— towards their call. ++++++++ Links: Allison Park Church Allison Park Leadership Network = Gears of Growth = Schedule a free Strategy Session = /episode/index/show/thecourageouspastors/id/22389857