The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

The Gravel Ride is a cycling podcast where we discuss the people, places and products that define modern gravel cycling. We will be interviewing athletes, course designers and product designers who are influencing the sport. We will be providing information on where to ride, what to ride and how to stay stoked on gravel riding.

I'm doing the UNBOUND 200 with FasCat Coach Justin Bowes 04/16/2024

I'm doing the UNBOUND 200 with FasCat Coach Justin Bowes This week on the podcast we welcome Justin Bowes, a coach at FasCat Coaching. We discuss the evolution of Fastcat Coaching and the development of their training app, Optimize. Craig shares he'll be lining up for the UNBOUND 200 in June and Justin has the tough job of getting him ready. Justin shares his background in racing and coaching and his love for gravel racing. They also dive into the specific challenges and strategies for training for the Unbound Gravel 200, including nutrition, hydration, and pacing. Justin provides valuable insights and tips for preparing for a long-distance gravel race. Join About the Guest(s): Justin Bowes is FasCat cycling coach with over 20 years of experience in the sport. He started racing at the age of 15 and has competed in road cycling, triathlon, mountain biking, and gravel racing. Justin has raced professionally and has coached numerous athletes, including national champions in road cycling, mountain biking, and cyclocross. He is passionate about gravel racing and has an active 2024 gravel race calendar. Episode Summary: This week on the podcast we welcome Justin Bowes, a coach at FasCat Coaching. We discuss the evolution of Fastcat Coaching and the development of their training app, Optimize. Craig shares he'll be lining up for the UNBOUND 200 in June and Justin has the tough job of getting him ready. Justin shares his background in racing and coaching and his love for gravel racing. They also dive into the specific challenges and strategies for training for the Unbound Gravel 200, including nutrition, hydration, and pacing. Justin provides valuable insights and tips for preparing for a long-distance gravel race. Key Takeaways: Fastcat Coaching has evolved over the years and now offers personalized coaching as well as an app called Optimize, which provides real-time analysis and feedback for athletes. Training for a long-distance gravel race like Unbound Gravel 200 requires a strategic approach, including proper nutrition, hydration, and pacing. It is important to listen to your body and adjust your training based on factors like recovery, sleep, and overall fatigue. Simulating race conditions and practicing your nutrition and hydration strategy during training rides is crucial for success on race day. Having a support crew and a well-thought-out plan for aid stations and resupply points can make a big difference in your race experience. Notable Quotes: "Unbound Gravel is a challenging event, but with proper training and preparation, you can enjoy the ride and achieve your goals." - Justin Bowes "Training for a long-distance gravel race requires a balance of endurance, strength, and mental fortitude Transcription: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Justin, welcome to the show. [00:00:04] - (): Justin Bowes: Hey, Craig, how are you doing? [00:00:05] - (): Craig Dalton: Um, excellent. I'm excited to have another fast cat on the podcast. Frank on his gosh, it must've been like a year plus ago that we had Frank on board. [00:00:14] - (): Justin Bowes: Yeah. That's what he mentioned that, uh, when we first started talking about, uh, bringing you on is I hope you don't mind a project. **** - (): Um, he said, yeah, it was almost two years ago, I think that he was on. So yeah, this is cool to be on with you. [00:00:28] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's been awesome. I mean, I've been a big fan of the fast cat podcast over the years and I've picked up a bunch. I've never really in the last couple of years had anything super substantive to train for something that terrified me. **** - (): So we'll get to what that is and why I came back to you guys. But the evolution of fast cat over that time, obviously. That brought on additional coaches, but also built out a pretty amazing application, uh, iPhone app and Android app, I assume. [00:00:59] - (): Justin Bowes: Yeah, it's as, as Frank says, you can actually feel us getting faster and it's like you can feel us growing as well. **** - (): Um, yeah, with, you know, not only the, the success that Frank and the other coaches have had previous to me coming on, uh, which is the one on one coaching, but implementing. new AI, uh, scripts to, you know, a coaching app that can give you this amazing analysis, just as if you're communicating with a human. **** - (): Cause it takes all of Frank's 20 years of training peak comments and puts them into this app. And so when you get done with the ride, you get that instant feedback as if, Coach Kat, who is coach Frank, you know, is giving you, you know, that real time analysis just as you've uploaded that ride. Whereas me as a coach, you know, I may see that you've uploaded a ride, but I probably won't make a comment or analyze that ride until like the next day. **** - (): But with fast cat. It's there and it's right there for you. And, you know, as a coach, it's just like having a, uh, you know, a 24 seven virtual assistant. So it's, it's really cool. [00:02:09] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's been super interesting that the app is called optimize. And basically you can choose from Any number of the fast cat training programs. **** - (): So if you're training for a gravel race, or you're just trying to get faster in your group ride, you can just pick a plan and then it'll give you a program every single day of the week with built in rest. And to your point, a couple of months ago, I think they introduced coach cat. This AI, and it is pretty amazing. **** - (): The unlock I think originally for the app was this intersection of. Taking your HR RV, your recovery score and looking at that in the context of what's your workload proposed for the day and making sure if you're in the red in terms of recovery, they're not sending you out on a six hour ride. So I noticed as I was using it, you know, coach Kat would say, You know, you're in the red, do you want me to modify this workout? **** - (): And then you can just type in, Hey, yeah, I'm feeling crushed. What should I do? And you'll get back a workout. That's kind of slots into the overall plan or vision for where you're trying to get to. [00:03:12] - (): Justin Bowes: Absolutely. And I think, you know, So with the sleep metrics, more and more people are getting into and really understanding that importance of, you know, we've always been told, get that eight hours of sleep, you know, get, you know, get the bed and keep a consistent, uh, schedule, you know, the sleep hygiene aspect of your training. **** - (): And it's just more and more as the wearables, uh, whether it's the aura ring or a whoop or your Apple watch or. Uh, garment device or any of those other, um, devices, the metrics that they are kicking out are just getting smarter and smarter and fast cat, the app can collect all that just like you did a ride. **** - (): And so, like, as soon as you wake up and whatever device you're using uploads it to fast cat. He's already, you know, reading that and gives you that thumbs up or thumbs down on, you know, to go for it or, you know, Hey, let's hold back. And to your point, it's really nice to be able to, you know, have that chat with fast cat coach, um, to say, yeah, yeah, you know, I do feel great. **** - (): Let's, You know, keep the schedule program or yeah, I do feel kind of worn down. So maybe an active recovery day is, is better or a day off. And so fast KAC coach, you know, can adjust that immediately for you. And so you're on your way and not have to think about, should I, should I not? And it's actually a coach telling you that it's not just you putting a guilt trip on yourself to say, Oh, I know I should, but I've got a planned workout, so I should stick to it. **** - (): Great. Great. Yeah. I'm getting that feedback just as if I'm your coach or Frank or any of the other Fastcat coaches or your coach telling you, Hey, you know, let's take a day off. [00:04:57] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It took me a minute in January to kind of get everything set up like the, the head unit integrations are, are totally seamless for Wahoo and Hammerhead and other computers. **** - (): into the system for me, since I didn't have power at that point. And I was doing indoor training on a Peloton. There was a bit of a head scratcher because there wasn't a Peloton integration at the time. And it took a minute and going back and forth with the team over there to figure out, Oh, if I just at least record my Peloton ride with my Wahoo head unit and a heart rate monitor. **** - (): At least the data is coming in at that point. Right. So while it wasn't perfect, it kind of got me one step further. And then ultimately, uh, with the thanks to SRM, I did get some of their SRM X power pedals to put power on the bike, which has been a godsend, obviously in terms of our communication and just my ability to kind of really work within the app. **** - (): I mentioned that all to say. Like I was super jazzed with the optimized app and what it was delivering to me, but what I started to get a sense when some personal travel kicked up for April, this big chunk of time before my target event in June, like I was going to have a problem. I didn't trust that the AI could figure out this complicated equation of. **** - (): You could training for this big event training for the unbound 200 got a limited amount of time. How are we going to get the volume? How are we going to get all the different things that we need into a program? And that's why I went back to fast cat. And that's where I got introduced to you, Justin. So Yeah. **** - (): Long, very long intro talking a lot about the Optimize app, but Justin, welcome again to the show. Thank you. Let's just learn a little bit more about your background and then I have lots of questions about what's coming up for me. [00:06:45] - (): Justin Bowes: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's crazy. Um, yeah, again, thank you for having me on the show. **** - (): Um, long time listener, first time caller. Um. Really appreciate, uh, the opportunity to, uh, to speak with you and obviously, work with you now, uh, with getting you on board and, um, get you ready for Unbound. Uh, so my background, um, the quick and dirty is I started racing when I was 15. I watched the 1984 Olympic Games, uh, in Los Angeles, watched Alexei Grewal, from the United States, win the gold medal in the road race. **** - (): And it was just like, my mind exploded. I was like, what is this? Like, I want to do that. And it wasn't like I was a stranger to endurance sports, um, between my oldest brother and my two younger brothers, all four of us, were involved either with swim team or, uh, cross country and track. Um, and we slowly kind of got into just, you know, riding at that time, 10 speeds as just, you know, part of training for running and swimming and everything else. **** - (): But it was, it was watching the Olympics and watching Alexi win the gold medal. I was just like, I want to do that. And so that next summer, um, I started road racing, but I also, um, got into triathlon as well. So I grew up in Kansas city. And at that time, there wasn't a huge racing scene in Kansas City. Um, there was in the Midwest. **** - (): So you had, you know, St. Louis was a hotbed. Oklahoma actually had a really cool old time, uh, stage race called the 89er. Um, Wisconsin, Chicago, obviously with, um, Uh, super weak and, and those crits out there, uh, back in the day. So we would have to travel to do, you know, the bigger bike races, but there was a booming triathlon scene in and around Kansas city. **** - (): And so, uh, raced in that, uh, worked my way up, um, got my pro card early, got my cat one, you know, about the same time as 17 years old. Um, Yeah, it was just, it was a good time of, of racing and training and everything. We had a really good, um, group of people to train with. Um, then, you know, raced professionally for a few years, um, decided I got, I wasn't making a career out of it. **** - (): Um, and so it was more like there was probably more to life than just living out of your car and traveling to races to try to get pre money to get to the next race and, and so on and so forth. And so. Um, I did transition to mountain bike racing in the early nineties, um, as I kind of aged out of the juniors and triathlon and road cycling mountain biking was taking off there in the late eighties, early nineties, and so race the nervous circuit. **** - (): And, you know, was good enough, but wasn't a great, you know, elite pro rider. And so that was when the light kind of turned on. It's like, you know, there's probably more to life than, like I said, living out of your car and going to bike races all the time. And so, um, yeah, I decided to start a family, settle down, have kids, um, and then literally did not touch a bike for, uh, six plus years. **** - (): Um, you know, I tell people they don't believe me. I don't share pictures, but there's evidence that I did blow up to like 250 pounds at, you know, one point while I was taking a sabbatical. Um, but it was about that time that, uh, my daughter was entering junior high and she wanted to, you know, run track and she wanted to do distance. **** - (): And so, and it was about the time where I was starting to get an itch to get back into it. The kids were getting old enough. I didn't feel as bad or as guilty trying to like get back into, to cycling. And so, um, Yeah, bought a bike off of eBay, bought some extra large bib shorts from the local bike shop, um, started riding, and then also running with her in the morning before school and work, and yeah, pounds fell off, the training itch came back, the racing itch came back, um, Started racing again in Kansas City, um, helped with some local clubs there, helped with race direction with the tour of Kansas City and some other cyclocross races there. **** - (): Um, yeah, and it just kind of blossomed, you know, from there. And then, uh, My wife and I, we moved up to Chicago. We lived there for five years, raced in the great crit and cyclocross scene up there, had an amazing time. We were up there for five years, and then now we are based out of central Virginia, uh, just outside of Charlottesville at the base of the Blue Ridge Mountains in Crozet, Virginia, and, uh, now taking advantage of the amazing riding that's here and just, Head over heels, uh, into gravel racing in the last, you know, five years big time. **** - (): And yeah, just haven't looked back since. So, um, all along the way, um, you know, coaching was a big part of that. And it was kind of a casual thing as far as coaching was concerned. When I first kind of started into it is when I got back into racing. The second time I had, you know, some friends that were running a team, a local club there for You know, new riders to get into, and they asked if I would help, you know, kind of mentor and bring those new riders into the racing fold and kind of introduce them to, you know, the ins and outs and kind of the protocols of training and group rides and, and things like that. **** - (): And one thing just led to another. It's just like, Hey, what did you used to do for training? And that kind of spiraled into here. Let me help you. And then more and more people are like, Hey, can you help me? And so, um, after we left Kansas city and went up to Chicago, the same thing kind of happened. And I was just like, maybe I should do this. **** - (): And then, um, I still, you know, I was working full time in the corporate world. I was in it. And, um, still racing and everything, but once we moved down here to Virginia, um, my job didn't transfer. And so my amazing wife, Andrea, she was like, why don't you just coach full time? You know, why don't you do that? **** - (): And so, um, it's like, maybe I should. And so I did. And so for the last seven years, yeah, I've just been a private coach and I've had, I've Yeah, a handful of national champion, uh, riders in road, uh, mountain biking, cycle cross, um, three from three different countries and road cycling, um, so yeah, it's been really exciting, um, and now I just started with, uh, Frank and the team and Fastcat, uh, here in the last month, um, It's, it's been amazing, full time, you know, transition from having my own coaching business to working with a team of coaches. **** - (): And that was kind of the allure was working with, you know, nine like minded individuals who shared the passion for development, mentorship, and. Teaching and, um, to be able to like collaborate and have our coaches roundtables, you know, and our team meetings every week and just be able to bounce things off of, you know, other, you know, coaches and, Hey, have you seen this? **** - (): Have you done that? Um, so I hope that wasn't too long and winded, but, uh, Yeah. That's, that's how we came about. [00:14:29] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. No, it's great. Yeah. And I, you know, to your point around the fast cat coaches, I've been enjoying getting to know some of them through the podcast and getting their different perspectives. **** - (): And I could see, you know, some of them have like a strong nutritional background or, you know, different backgrounds to bring to the table, which I'm sure leads to some vibrant conversations in your coaching meetings. [00:14:54] - (): Justin Bowes: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, we all kind of have our own niche. Um, I mean, we all obviously overlap with all the different disciplines, but you know, um, we have some that are really strong, you know, in mountain biking, some are really strong in cyclocross. **** - (): Some are really strong in road. Some like myself or, you know, kind of jack of all trades, but like, I really love, you know, racing gravel now. And so that's the language I speak. And so, um, Yeah. And so we can share, Hey, what tires are you using? What equipment's best for this race or that course or, you know, things like that. **** - (): And, uh, you know, I've got an athlete going to, you know, this race who's done it, who's had athletes there and things like that. And so to be able to cross pollinate, um, is, is really cool. And it's, it's really dynamic and exciting. [00:15:44] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit specifically about your experience in gravel, both as a coach and as an athlete. **** - (): I know you've been passionate about it the last couple of years. What have been some of the events you've been hitting? What do you, what do you like, like to do in gravel for yourself? And what have you been seeing across the athletes you're coaching? [00:16:02] - (): Justin Bowes: Sure. Um, so as far as like, you know, that, you know, I still haven't done steamboat. **** - (): Uh, gravel. I want to do that. Um, I'm trying to qualify again for, uh, the world cyclic cyclo cars, world's gravel championships in Belgium this year. I'd really like to go over there and, um, race in the worlds. Um, I missed it by a spot last year, uh, going to Italy. Um, we can talk about that. My. Body just kind of said no bueno during the middle of the race and later found out there was some medical stuff behind it. **** - (): So, um, got that all fixed, but, um, yeah, gearing up like you, I'm gearing up for Unbound, but, uh, unlike you, I'm only doing the 100. Um, this will be my third shot at it. My first time in 21, I was able to take 15th, uh, overall on that one. And then next year, 2022, I DNFed with a mechanical. Um, and so I punted last year and deferred to, to come back this year and we're going north and I really like the north course more, more so than the south courses. **** - (): Um, so I'm really looking forward to that. [00:17:15] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. What do you like about that north direction now that we're on that subject? [00:17:20] - (): Justin Bowes: Ah, I like the nasty, chunky gravel. Um, I, I think it, it's, You know, it, it's plays more into my strength, um, as a rider, I like the technical aspect of it.... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/30855473

Have a Good Ride Gravel: Building a Vibrant Community of Gravel Cyclists 04/02/2024

Have a Good Ride Gravel: Building a Vibrant Community of Gravel Cyclists In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews Dean Dahl, the founder of Good Ride Gravel, about his journey into gravel cycling and the upcoming gravel event he is organizing in Chilliwack, British Columbia. Dean shares his background in skateboarding and mountain biking and how he found a similar sense of adventure and exploration in gravel cycling. He discusses the unique characteristics of the Chilliwack area, including its diverse terrain and the growing gravel cycling community. Dean also explains his vision for the Good Ride Gravel event, which focuses on creating a community-oriented experience that celebrates both the sport of gravel cycling and the natural beauty of the region. He highlights the different routes available for participants, ranging from a beginner-friendly 50-kilometer ride to a challenging 150-kilometer route with significant elevation gain. Dean emphasizes the importance of sustainability and community engagement in organizing the event and shares his plans for a lively post-event atmosphere with local sponsors providing ice cream, craft beer, coffee, and food. Join About the Guest(s): Dean Dahl is an event organizer and gravel cyclist based outside Vancouver, British Columbia. He grew up in the Vancouver area and has always had a passion for outdoor activities. Dean has a background in skateboarding and mountain biking, which eventually led him to discover gravel cycling. He currently resides in Yarrow, British Columbia, a small town just outside of Vancouver, where he enjoys the quiet and scenic surroundings. Dean has experience organizing events in the nonprofit sector and has a deep understanding of the cycling community. He is the founder of Good Ride Gravel, an event that aims to bring together gravel cyclists of all levels and create a vibrant and inclusive community. Episode Summary: In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews Dean Dahl, the founder of Good Ride Gravel, about his journey into gravel cycling and the upcoming gravel event he is organizing in Chilliwack, British Columbia. Dean shares his background in skateboarding and mountain biking and how he found a similar sense of adventure and exploration in gravel cycling. He discusses the unique characteristics of the Chilliwack area, including its diverse terrain and the growing gravel cycling community. Dean also explains his vision for the Good Ride Gravel event, which focuses on creating a community-oriented experience that celebrates both the sport of gravel cycling and the natural beauty of the region. He highlights the different routes available for participants, ranging from a beginner-friendly 50-kilometer ride to a challenging 150-kilometer route with significant elevation gain. Dean emphasizes the importance of sustainability and community engagement in organizing the event and shares his plans for a lively post-event atmosphere with local sponsors providing ice cream, craft beer, coffee, and food. Key Takeaways: Dean Dahl's passion for outdoor activities, including skateboarding and mountain biking, eventually led him to discover gravel cycling. Chilliwack, British Columbia, offers a unique mix of flat, smooth trails and challenging mountainous terrain, making it an ideal location for gravel cycling. The Good Ride Gravel event aims to bring together gravel cyclists of all levels and create a vibrant and inclusive community. Participants can choose from three different routes, ranging from a beginner-friendly 50-kilometer ride to a challenging 150-kilometer route with significant elevation gain. The event will feature a lively post-event atmosphere with local sponsors providing ice cream, craft beer, coffee, and food. Notable Quotes: "I realized this is actually a lot like the feeling I used to have as a skater... discovering strange little places and hitting obstacles. I get that same feeling when I'm gravel riding." - Dean Dahl "We want to be able to provide something that is an amazing opportunity, a gravel adventure that has a high-end component to it." - Dean Dahl "We're celebrating gravel, but we're celebrating you as an individual. And we're celebrating the fact that you want to be a part of something good." - Dean Dahl Resources: - Official website of the Good Transcript: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Hey Dean, welcome to the show. [00:00:05] - (): Dean Dahl: Hi there Craig, it's good to be here. [00:00:08] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, good to finally connect. I'm glad to see you got a sip of water right in before we started recording. I thought I had a sneeze teed up, but it seems to be holding itself. Well, you're welcome [00:00:17] - (): Dean Dahl: to go for it. We can edit that out, right? [00:00:20] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, exactly. Although the listener knows that I'm not much of an editor, so it is what it is. [00:00:27] - (): Dean Dahl: Getting live and real. On the podcast. [00:00:30] - (): Craig Dalton: Let's set the stage a little bit. Where are you, where are you talking to me from? [00:00:33] - (): Dean Dahl: Yeah, I'm from, uh, I live in Vancouver or just outside of Vancouver, British Columbia, and, um, yeah, my name is Dean Dahl and been out here in a little town called Yarrow, British Columbia. **** - (): And, uh, it's about an hour, if there's good traffic, east of Vancouver in, uh, the Fraser Valley. [00:00:54] - (): Craig Dalton: And did you grow up in Canada? [00:00:56] - (): Dean Dahl: Yeah, I did. So, I grew up in the Vancouver area, uh, recently moved actually out of the city, um, about five years ago. Um, me and my wife and our kids moved out here and it's quite a different, uh, change. **** - (): It's quiet out here, uh, kind of like, uh, sort of semi rural farming kind of community. With lots of great outdoors, but nothing happens after 9 a. m. or 9 p. m. Sorry. And, uh, being in the city, like I was right in East Van in the thick of it. And, uh, I was used to living life after 10. P. m. So it's a change, but you know, the scenery is great. **** - (): So that's awesome. And lots of good biking, which I'm sure we'll talk about [00:01:35] - (): Craig Dalton: for sure. Yeah. I'm always interested to explore like how people found the bike. Obviously, you know, many of us had bikes introduced to us very early on in our lives, and it would give us a sense of exploration and freedom from a population perspective, there's very few of us who take that through line into our mid lives and are still riding a bike. **** - (): So what was your journey to the bike? Like, and, you know, we can ultimately get to how you found gravel cycling. [00:02:02] - (): Dean Dahl: Oh yeah, sure. Um, off and on, like probably everybody listening to this, uh, had the classic BMX bike or whatever little cruiser thing and made jumps with it and got my nose banged up a bunch when I was a little kid, which is all kinds of fun stories in themselves, but whatever. **** - (): Um, My, I was just actually thinking about this the other day. My uncle was a really interesting character in that he had a real passion for serving young people. And, uh, he lived in the same town I did, and he actually started up a small group for, for teenagers and young kids. And he would take us on camping trips and hiking trips and, uh, overnighters and things like that. **** - (): And, um, kind of set up his own organization with it. And I remember going on, um, You know, in the Pacific Northwest, we have a whole bunch of what we call the Gulf Islands here, all up from Seattle, up the coast, all the way to Alaska. They're beautiful. And around Vancouver, uh, he had arranged this, uh, this bike tour for us to go when I was in grade 11, around one of the local Gulf Islands. **** - (): And, uh, I got a road bike for it and. Put panniers on it. And it was kind of my first expression of being able to be on the road, packing, gearing up stuff. And I thought, this is amazing. So from that point on, I got really interested in bike riding, but that was, you know, fun. But then, um, I kind of got distracted by skateboarding and turned into like a course skater for years and years. **** - (): Um, and, uh, did a little bit. Uh, on the side of that, I discovered mountain biking in kind of the mid nineties, I guess, and bought, uh, you know, an old Kona hard tail thing and lived on the North shore at the time and was doing mountain bike racing a couple of seasons there and got just really exhausted from. **** - (): pushing my bike up the hill and then slamming as I was riding down it. So that was a short lived season. Uh, but it was still really fun. Like I was talking to you, Craig, before, um, I realized now that a lot of the mountain biking I did in the past was actually gravel riding without drop bars. I remember having a picture of John Tomac Um, on my wall at some point and him, I thought he was so cool because he was mountain biking and yet he was, he had drop bars on his mountain bike and I was like, those are dark bars. **** - (): Like I had when I was touring around salt spring Island and he's riding a mountain bike. Like I'm right, like I want to ride a mountain bike and myself. He brought those worlds together and I didn't click at the time what was going on, but now that I'm gravel riding a lot, I think, yeah, yeah, that's cool. **** - (): That that's, that's the deal. [00:04:46] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's funny when you think back to that period, it's like, why didn't it click then? And I think there's so many like little reasons why it wasn't right until sort of your, your 2014 era for the bikes to actually come together and form the basis of what is gravel riding today. **** - (): Uh, it's super interesting. And I love those old Tomac photos for sure. [00:05:10] - (): Dean Dahl: Yeah. Well, you know, I w I wonder if, uh, mountain biking had to find itself or discover itself and had to really move away from all things road bike so it could find its own identity and now maybe it's mature enough that people can dip in and out of that road style, the gravel style without a feeling, I guess. **** - (): Threat to mountain biking? I don't know. [00:05:30] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, who knows? Who knows? I'm interested, you know, you mentioned your, your passion for skating for many years. Do you see there, like, any similarities between skating and cycling in terms of what it delivers to you? Or are they two just distinct areas of your brain and body? [00:05:48] - (): Dean Dahl: No, uh, well, I think that, um, for gravel cycling and skateboarding, there's actually a lot of similarities and I'll talk to them about them in a second. But in terms of my experience going from skateboarding into cycling, not that I've stopped skating, but I do it a lot less, that ground is not getting any softer as I get old. **** - (): Um, I just got into road biking because I realized that I'm not skating as much as I needed to, to keep fit. And I needed something that was low impact. So I got a road bike and just started racing and that was amazing, but it was a totally different rush except from hill bombing, which felt the same. Uh, but then gravel biking came along and I realized this is actually a lot like the feeling I used to have as a skater. **** - (): Like, Going to the city with my crew, uh, going on a road trip and looking around the dark corners and alleys of a city and out in these strange little places where you can find these cool skate spots and you're right, you're rolling to them and from them and you're hitting. You know, whatever obstacle and thinking, Oh, this is amazing. **** - (): I get that same feeling when I'm gravel riding, like I'll ride for my house. And I'll be like, Hey, I've never seen that part of the hill before. I should go check it out and see if there's any trails there and riding with my friends. And we're discovering, Oh, let's try this. Oh, it's a dead end. Let's turn around. **** - (): Let's go do this. And it just felt like, you know, when I was 10 years younger, skating cities and. That kind of thing. So I would say that there's a not really, really, really a practical line, but really an emotional feel that I get from gravel riding that connects to skateboarding. [00:07:29] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, that lands with me. **** - (): I mean, I think as I think about designing routes for my own personal use in any given week, there's some creativity in looping together the trails, the roads, the mountain bike, single track sections, and. A given route in a given area of our little mountains here can feel radically different depending on how you approach it and what you tie together with it. **** - (): And I think much like skating where bringing your crew on an adventure, like you're taking the lead and you're like, Hey, I found this spot and then let's skate over to this spot. Gravel ride route planning and bringing a group out there. I think it's quite similar in that you just want to show them a new way to experience the, you know, the terrain around your house. [00:08:17] - (): Dean Dahl: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And it's really fun actually. Um, as I've gotten into gravel riding, I'm, uh, connecting, uh, through Instagram, but a whole bunch of different ways with skaters that I used to skate with back in the day that also bought gravel bikes and, uh, that are cruising around and they're hitting trails in the city and doing things. **** - (): Actually, you want my one friend just posted on Instagram, uh, on his gravel bike. He's got a really nice titanium gravel bike, but he's like riding downstairs and like, um, doing little ollies on banks and stuff. And I'm like, dude, you're skating on your bike. That's hilarious. It's hilarious. that escape deal, but he's doing it on a gravel bike. **** - (): Right. So he's got the same adventure. [00:08:59] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. I love it. I love it. We're going to get into a great gravel event that you're organizing for this may, but I wanted to tease out earlier in your life, You know, Had you been producing events and had you had any experience doing events before kicking this one off? [00:09:16] - (): Dean Dahl: Yeah. Um, I've, uh, I'm kind of an event planner. Um, a lot of my career has been spent in the nonprofit world. And, uh, so I actually kind of helped found a skateboarding nonprofit within a larger nonprofit organization. Um, so I was doing a lot of skateboarding events and doing a lot of fundraising events for the larger umbrella organization as well. **** - (): And, uh, as I got more into my career, I became better at it. So I kind of moved up into more senior circles in those nonprofits that I was working for. So a lot of the events that I was running, um, especially towards the end of my nonprofit career, uh, were, um, fundraisers and, uh, they were the classic peer to peer, you know, I'm going to do this a hundred kilometer, uh, cycling event and I'm going to raise money for this cause it's going to be great. **** - (): And so I did, uh, a lot of those. And over the years, I kind of honed that to doing a lot more kind of bespoke tours where we'd get a small group of people. They'd raise a lot of money each and it wasn't a huge amount of people because we thought we could provide a better experience by doing something smaller, uh, really intentional with our, uh, with our friends that would want to ride with us and we'd still raise a lot of money and it was great for the organization. **** - (): So I have a history in that, um, and, uh, that. I guess. And well, as well as that, the last couple of years, I was hosting specific gravel races. And again, they had a fundraising component to them, uh, but they were a lot more in the, they were increasingly becoming more sport oriented. And, uh, that was partly intentional on my part. **** - (): And we can talk about that later, but I found that there's a, an odd space that the cycling community, specifically the gravel community sits in where it's, um, uh, It's attractive to both people in the nonprofit realm who see something like a gravel event as something dynamic and a vital, like a community with lots of vitality in it. **** - (): And they want to be a part of that because it's an exciting thing that can represent their nonprofit through which they can raise money. So that's one way of looking at that community of cyclists. The other is through the business realm that sees it as, Oh man, this is a great marketing opportunity for me to sponsor races or to put my name on it. **** - (): Our brand on this cool new community. And, uh, for my, from my perspective, the races that I was organizing, I just really felt like the organizations that I was helping produce these events for didn't understand the community of cycling and they weren't treating it well enough. They weren't going through the due process of looking on the race calendar. **** - (): Are we intersecting with another race that's happening in the same city? Are we actually doing the due diligence to get permits properly, to make sure the police know about our presence on the road? Are, do our cyclists know how to ride properly on these, on these trails? Um, And I'd get calls from mountain bikers or gravel cyclists after and be like, Hey, what's going on? **** - (): I heard about this event and people on the, you know, on my favorite trail are complaining about all the cyclists on the trail. I just realized, Oh man, through a good intention of doing a nonprofit work, raising funds through cycling, we're actually doing a disservice to the community of cyclists. Through it. **** - (): And I really wanted to address that in the events that I do to be able to create an event. That's actually not just something that you show up to do your race and you're gone and not something that you show up to because you have this other thing that you're raising money for, but to have something that really honors the community and says, this is something amazing. **** - (): We're all passionate about this. Let's build a community and let's make this community amazing. So that's a long answer to your story about my history and running events. [00:13:06] - (): Craig Dalton: So, I mean, let's name, let's name, let's talk about good ride gravel. Yeah. Like let's talk about one, you know, you talked about some of the motivations about why you created it, but let's kind of dig into that. **** - (): Let's dig into, What's your vision for this event this May? [00:13:24] - (): Dean Dahl: Yeah. Uh, we are basically hosting a kind of a sport forward event that really focuses on the community of gravel cyclists. Uh, there's a, uh, an increasing amount of them here in the lower mainland in Metro Vancouver area. And, uh, they are an emerging group and they are. **** - (): Kind of, kind of referencing back to my skateboarding days, they feel like a skate scene in a sense in that it's just this new thing and people are trying to discover what it's all about. And they're really stoked on being able to do things that are, you know, really gnarly in some cases and really smooth on the other adventuring, like what you're talking about. **** - (): And we want to be able to provide something that is an amazing opportunity, a gravel adventure that has a high end component to it. So you can come, you can race it. We've got podium prizes with cash. Um, so those people on the sharp end of this, uh, of the scene, uh, we've got a couple of pros coming, which is great. **** - (): And they're pushing their community to come and enjoy it. But on the other end, we have people that have never really tried gravel cycling again. But during COVID they bought a gravel bike and they've been riding it for a couple of years. And now COVID is kind of, we're kind of finding our way past COVID and these people want to get involved in events. **** - (): They have this passion for cycling. Now they want to find the community connected to that passion. And so whether... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/30644998

Andrew L'Esperance - professional gravel and MTB racer 03/13/2024

Andrew L'Esperance - professional gravel and MTB racer In this episode, Craig Dalton interviews Andrew L'Esperance, a professional cyclist from Canada. Andrew shares his journey in the world of cycling, starting from his early days racing with his brothers to becoming a professional athlete. He discusses the challenges and opportunities he has encountered along the way and how he has managed to make a career out of his passion for cycling. Andrew also talks about his transition to gravel racing and the different strategies and equipment choices involved in this discipline. He shares his experiences in races like Unbound and Sea Otter Classic and provides insights into the world of professional cycling. Join About the Guest(s): Andrew L'Esperance is a professional cyclist from Nova Scotia, Canada. He grew up in a family that spent a lot of time outdoors and started racing bikes at the age of 12. Andrew has been racing ever since, climbing the ladder and participating in various disciplines such as road cycling, cyclocross, and mountain biking. He holds a degree in mechanical engineering and has always had ambitions to be a full-time athlete. Andrew has raced for Norco Bicycles and is currently racing for Maxxis Factory Racing. He has also ventured into gravel racing and is excited about the opportunities it presents. Episode Summary: In this episode, Craig Dalton interviews Andrew L'Esperance, a professional cyclist from Canada. Andrew shares his journey in the world of cycling, starting from his early days racing with his brothers to becoming a professional athlete. He discusses the challenges and opportunities he has encountered along the way and how he has managed to make a career out of his passion for cycling. Andrew also talks about his transition to gravel racing and the different strategies and equipment choices involved in this discipline. He shares his experiences in races like Unbound and Sea Otter Classic and provides insights into the world of professional cycling. Key Takeaways: Andrew L'Esperance started racing bikes at a young age and has been racing ever since, participating in various disciplines such as road cycling, cyclocross, and mountain biking. He has always had ambitions to be a full-time athlete and has found ways to make it work alongside his engineering degree. Andrew's transition to gravel racing has opened up new opportunities and challenges, and he enjoys the adventure and technical aspects of this discipline. He emphasizes the importance of equipment choices in gravel racing, including tire selection and the use of suspension forks. Andrew's favorite gravel races include Unbound and Sea Otter Classic, where he enjoys the competitive atmosphere and the chance to showcase his skills. Notable Quotes: "I've always ridden a drop bar bike off-road. My first bikes were mountain bikes, and then I started doing cyclocross, which was my road bike, my winter bike, my cross bike. So, I've always had that mix of riding different disciplines on the same bike." - Andrew L'Esperance "I love the adventure of riding a bike, and it's a lot easier to find adventure on a gravel bike. In general, in the places that I spend the most time riding." - Andrew L'Esperance "If it's going to give you an advantage in the race, sometimes it will, sometimes it won't, and it needs to be at the right time in the race." - Andrew L'Esperance on using a suspension fork in gravel racing "Gravel racing is a combination of endurance, technical skill, and equipment choices. It's about finding the right balance and making the most of each race." - Andrew L'Esperance Transcription: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Andrew, welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks for having me, Craig. Yeah. I'm excited to have this conversation. I know you're, you're off to Europe tomorrow, so I appreciate you squeezing us in before you [00:00:13] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: go. Yeah. Thanks for you making it happen too. I think you were just on traveling as well. So thanks for making it work with your [00:00:20] - (): Craig Dalton: schedule. **** - (): Yeah, absolutely. We always like to start off by learning a little bit more about you. Where, where'd you grow up and how'd you originally find the bike? [00:00:28] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: Uh, I grew up on the east coast of Canada, uh, in the province of Nova Scotia, just outside the main city there, which is Halifax. Uh, and yeah, kind of grew up in a family that, you know, spent a lot of time outdoors and we rode bikes together as a family on vacations. **** - (): And I'm the youngest of four boys. In the family, so I have three older brothers, and as you can imagine, like, I just looked up to my brothers big time, and especially my oldest brother, and he did a bike race once, so it was basically like, oh, I've gotta do a bike race, and yeah, I just kind of did my first race when I was 12, and ran, what's that, and, um, I've been racing ever since, kind of climbing the ladder, doing some education in there. **** - (): Uh, but yeah, just been racing ever since and obviously like sprinkling some other sports in there early on. [00:01:27] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, was Nova Scotia the type of area where youth cycling was easy to come by? I wouldn't say it [00:01:35] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: was easy to come by. Um, I think, I think I was, like, fairly self motivated, like, to make, to make it happen, and had some good support from my parents to make it happen. **** - (): Um, but there's definitely a tight knit community, and I think they certainly took me under their wing, for whatever reason. And, yeah, helped me, helped me Come up in the sport, but I guess the first race I did was a Tuesday night short track series. So from that perspective, certainly, um, that's like, that's a really great entry point for use. **** - (): To the sport. Um, when you say, um, when you say kind of youth programming, I kind of think about like a bike club or that sort of thing for like specifically for youth, because we see a lot of that around now. And there was certainly nothing like that. But that kind of forced me to kind of ride with the older, older people, uh, that were definitely better than me and that kind of helped pull me along in the sport early on for sure. [00:02:47] - (): Craig Dalton: Were you sort of racing consistently at that young age or did it take some time before you kind of really committed to a season? [00:02:55] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: Yeah, I mean, I think when I did my first race, I was still doing other sports. Like, so I was definitely not like full on right away. Um, but it was definitely a slow process to get into it. **** - (): Like the, it was more like regional racings first. I don't think I did any provincial level racing when I was 12. It was, it was, the racing I did was the short track series. It was like for, you know, eight or 10 weeks in the summer. And that was, that was the racing and it was, yeah. Like that was the season, uh, and then I just got more and more into it. **** - (): And next year I did provincial, provincial level races. Then probably when I was 15, um, I went outside the province to race. And by that point, it was kind of like doing every kind of racing that I could, uh, coming from a smaller province. You know, there's not, there's not a ton of racing, but, um, so you kind of need to do all the things. **** - (): So like do road, do cyclocross, do the mountain bike racing, do the group rides, all those things. Um, and yeah, that's how it, that's how I kind of started things off there. [00:04:12] - (): Craig Dalton: And at what point did you start to see professional cycling as a career opportunity? [00:04:19] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: Yeah, I don't, I don't know. To be honest, maybe, maybe I just have started to see it as a legitimate career opportunity in the last couple of years, you know, I, I have a degree in mechanical engineering. **** - (): It was sort of, um, that was always kind of the way I was going to make, And I never really saw bike racing as a way to make money, but I loved it and I could make it work. Um, and I, I do think I did have ambitions to somehow figure it out to be a full time athlete, whether, you know, putting that professional label on it. **** - (): Um, it's kind of, I feel like that's kind of different. Um, but yeah, I definitely wanted to be a full time athlete. It's a really, It's a really great lifestyle and just, I've just been chugging along trying to figure out how to make it work. And I would say in the last five years, um, Yeah, I figured that out and [00:05:27] - (): Craig Dalton: were you figuring that out from a, you know, what's known as a privateer perspective or five years ago, would you enter a team program? **** - (): Um, [00:05:36] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: yeah, not definitely not as a privateer. Uh, so previous, so I'm currently racing for Max's factory racing, uh, and this will be my third year on the team. And prior to that, I raced for Norco bicycles in various capacities for about 10 years. Uh, kind of finishing my career with them on the Norco factory team. **** - (): Those years, there was a period where there was, um, growth in the team and they went to another level. They stepped up to the world cup level and that meant reducing the team size. And that left me without sort of factory team support for a couple of years. Um, and at that time, um, you know, I wanted to keep racing. **** - (): So it was sort of like, okay, how do I do this? How do I keep doing this? And I created, or myself and a teammate created our own team called forward racing, brought in some other sponsors and kept the support from Norco. And so in a sense, that was sort of privateering, but it was also like, okay, I'm putting, we're putting in all this work to organize this sponsorship. **** - (): Hey, let's support another rider to, or, or a couple other riders, like bring them up with us. Um, so myself and my teammate brought on a younger athlete named Sean Fincham. And we supported him for two years. [00:07:10] - (): Craig Dalton: Uh, that sounds like the racing we've been talking about has been on the mountain bike side. And since the listeners of this podcast may not necessarily be as familiar with that part of the sport, can you describe the type of mountain bike racing that you found yourself competing [00:07:25] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: in? **** - (): Yeah, totally. Yeah, so XCO mountain biking, it's, it's what's in the Olympics. It's kind of the short 90 minute race, uh, done on a short course, you know, three to five kilometers. You do, you know, five to seven laps. It's intense, there's technical features, that's the kind of racing I grew up on, and that was sort of, yeah, that, that was the racing that was available when I was coming up in the sport. **** - (): And there's a pretty clear plan within Canada, you know, to do a national series, which is called the Canada Cup, and to perform at those races, and then you might get selected to do something with the national team, like an international race. You kind of just, uh, some opportunities open up that way. Um, and so, so that's, that's the kind of racing I grew up doing. **** - (): That's the kind of racing I did for the majority of my career. And yeah, until I signed with Max's factory racing, uh, three years ago. That was my main thing doing, you know, I did it to the level that I was racing World Cups full time [00:08:40] - (): Craig Dalton: Got it. And so was it [00:08:43] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: yeah, I mean, it's so funny like You know, we've always, ever since I can remember, I've ridden, ridden a drop bar bike off road. **** - (): I, my first, I, you know, my first bikes were mountain bikes. And then, you know, you're, you're doing mountain bike racing and you need to, you need to do some road riding. So that actually started for me with cyclocross. So my, my cyclocross bike was my road bike. It was my winter bike. It was my cross bike. **** - (): And obviously you're riding that off road. Um, yeah, there's where I grew up in Nova Scotia. There's just plenty of bike paths, like gravel bike paths and gravel roads to ride. So, yeah, I would say it started with that early on. Um, and I guess more recently, um, Just like training, like for training opportunities, a gravel bike was just a good tool. **** - (): Um, when I was training for XCO racing gravel bike, it just opens up the routes you can ride. You can ride on potentially safer routes. Uh, with less traffic and it's just a whole lot of fun. And I do, I like, I love the, the adventure of riding a bike and it, it's a lot easier to find adventure on a gravel bike, I feel, um, in general, in the places that I, you know, spend the most time running. **** - (): Gotcha. [00:10:21] - (): Craig Dalton: And was when you signed on with Maxis Factory Racing, was gravel racing an original part of the deal when they looked at you as an athlete? [00:10:32] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: Um, it was definitely, um, you know, the team has always been focused on the mountain bike side of things. But, uh, the Uh, yeah, the, the way the market, or like the way the racing is in North America, it's, it's more like this off road racing. **** - (): So it's not all mountain, a lot of the biggest races are no crawl races. So, yeah, I mean, that was definitely part of the conversation. Um, And it was certainly something I was very interested in. I actually, I think I've shared this on a podcast before, but, um, about three years prior to, uh, you know, stopping my Racing World Cups full time and signing with Maxis and doing the off road thing, um, I had an unbound, uh, like lottery, lottery registration Okay. **** - (): That I got. **** - (): I was never able to make it work with my schedule, and then the pandemic got mixed in there too. And I just never got to use it. Um, the year that I could have used it, um, was the year I signed with Maxis and we were going anyways. And Maxis was a sponsor of Unbound, so. You know, we had, we had entries that way, so I ended up giving it away, but, um, long story short, this, this kind of racing was on my radar for a while. **** - (): Um, I think I was just before we started recording here, I was telling you. Um, you know, this adventure, I got, my interest got, uh, shifted towards some of this adventure racing back in 2017 when I did the Croc Trophy. It's an eight day mountain bike stage race across, um, tropical North Queensland in Australia. **** - (): And, yeah, just, just this, uh, very different racing compared to XCO. It's an adventure, um, and I just, I just loved it. Uh, so ever since 2017, I've been, myself and my wife, Haley, have been trying to mix in these different race opportunities that are, that I would categorize as kind of adventure racing. So Stuff like, um, Epic Israel, we've done that a couple times, Swiss Epic, um, BC Bike Race, these sorts of things. **** - (): And it's, I feel so lucky, I mean I'm still, I'm so fired up on what we're doing now, cause it's basically Those adventure races, but that's the full meal deal. Like that's what we're doing full time. Yeah. [00:13:21] - (): Craig Dalton: Amazing. Now I think you've been part of the grand Prix for two years already, and you'll be in it again in 2024. **** - (): Is that [00:13:28] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: right? Yeah, exactly. You got it. How did [00:13:31] - (): Craig Dalton: you manage to kind of make that schedule work and hit those mountain bike races that you like? Obviously the. The Grand Prix itself is not mountain bike heavy. There's a few occasions to ride your mountain bike, but not in the same way you had done in the past. **** - (): I'm just curious, you know, obviously with the different skill sets required for the different types of racing, how you organized your year and your training. So you can do things from, you know, 90 minute XC races to 10 hour unbounds. Yeah, [00:14:00] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: I don't, I honestly don't know how we did that first year. We went in like, okay, let's do all the racing and that's, that's what we did. **** - (): We, that first year we still had, well, I say we, cause Haley and I have been on this journey together and we, we, we jumped from XCO racing to this more off road stuff together, but yeah, that year we did five world cups, uh, alongside. The Grand Prix alongside a smattering of other races. And I think it was a big year of learning, uh, which was amazing. **** - (): It was, there was so much newness to it all, which was also like super refreshing. Um, I think I remember kind of reflecting on the season at the end of the year. And I like, I color coded all the races that I did based on which ones were new. And it was like, over half of them were brand new. And it was a large number of race days. **** - (): It was like, it was above 35 racing days and there was some stage racing in there. So it's a, it's, it's a little different, but, um, just a lot of racing. And yeah, I don't, I don't really know how we did it. I can't, I can't pinpoint to like, there was, there was no, there was no major thought put into the scheduling. **** - (): It was like just saying yes. [00:15:30] - (): Craig Dalton: If we can be there, we'll be there and pedal [00:15:33] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: totally, totally. And it was a ton of fun. Um, it ended up working, it ended up working out in, in general, um, in terms of like performance in the grand Prix. But again, I think the, the love, like the level of all, all this racing is, is increasing and I, I don't think that approach is. **** - (): is going to work again. Um, I mean, yeah, so there's definitely some lessons from the first couple of years and, um, I'm not, I'm not prepared to like throw all my eggs in the You know, just focus on the Grand Prix races. There's so, there's so many great events out there. Um, and you know, I also want to, want to continue to grow as a mountain biker and do challenging mountain bike events that really suit my, um, kind of my natural skillset and some of my best, uh, some of my strengths as an athlete. **** - (): So, so yeah, we're definitely mixing or I'm mixing a lot of different events in this season along the Grand Prix. [00:16:46] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, interesting. It'll be great to follow your season. Yeah, it's complicated. I can see, you know, over the last three years, going to the third year of the Grand Prix here. There's definitely been this specialization. **** - (): Obviously, there's a lot of prize money on the line for those who do well and get into the top whatever that gets paid out, but it is Increasingly clear that a lot of athletes are just laser focused on it. And I think it's still going to be interesting this year to see those athletes who are out there doing their own thing and racing some other crazy races, as well as popping into these races and see how the points end up shaking up throughout the year. **** - (): It's, it's an interesting equation. It's fascinating to me, listening to the athletes, figure out how to focus their time and energy. Yeah, totally. [00:17:32] - (): Andrew L'Esperance: And I mean, I think it's, it is, it is interesting because like, you know, the racing that we're doing, it's, uh, the Grand Prix is this, it is the series in North America right now. **** - (): Yeah, so there's just so many other good events. And, you know, I don't think any athlete is just doing the Grand Prix. And it is interesting to see, to spread, um, To see how athletes kind of spread their time and, and where their interests lie and, and all that. So it is cool to follow that, follow each athlete, um, doing what they're doing alongside the, alongside the Grand Prix. [00:18:11] - (): Craig Dalton: I also think it's interesting with the two drop races to just sort of see how the strategies play out. You hope that people aren't dropping them because they're sick or injured and they get an... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/30351993

Andy Lydic - the unofficial U23 Gravel World Chammpion 03/06/2024

Andy Lydic - the unofficial U23 Gravel World Chammpion In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews professional cyclist Andy Lydic. They discuss Andy's journey in the world of cycling, from his early days in high school to his decision to pursue a career as a professional cyclist. Andy shares his experiences racing for amateur teams in Spain and his transition to gravel racing. He also talks about his participation in the UCI Gravel World Championships and his goals for the future. The conversation highlights the growing popularity of gravel racing and its potential as a pathway to professional cycling. Episode brought to you by . Join About the Guest(s): Andy Lydic is a professional cyclist from Boulder, Colorado. He began his cycling journey in high school, transitioning from track and cross country to mountain biking and road racing. Andy joined the Boulder Junior Cycling team and quickly progressed in the sport. He decided to pursue a career as a professional cyclist and moved to Europe to race for amateur teams in Spain. After facing challenges with team closures, Andy shifted his focus to gravel racing. In 2023, he participated in the UCI Gravel World Championships and had a standout performance as the unofficial under 23 world champion. Andy continues to pursue his passion for gravel racing and aims to make a mark in the professional cycling world. Episode Summary: In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews professional cyclist Andy Lydic. They discuss Andy's journey in the world of cycling, from his early days in high school to his decision to pursue a career as a professional cyclist. Andy shares his experiences racing for amateur teams in Spain and his transition to gravel racing. He also talks about his participation in the UCI Gravel World Championships and his goals for the future. The conversation highlights the growing popularity of gravel racing and its potential as a pathway to professional cycling. Key Takeaways: Andy Lydic's passion for cycling began in high school when he transitioned from track and cross country to mountain biking and road racing. He joined the Boulder Junior Cycling team and received mentorship from experienced cyclists, which helped him progress in the sport. After facing challenges with team closures in Europe, Andy decided to focus on gravel racing as a pathway to professional cycling. Gravel racing offers a unique combination of physical and technical challenges, making it an exciting and competitive discipline. Andy's participation in the UCI Gravel World Championships showcased the potential of gravel racing and its ability to attract top-level riders. Notable Quotes: "I want to use gravel as my pathway to pro... I want to write the story of what is the future of gravel." - Andy Lydic "Gravel racing is a true test of a rider's strength, endurance, and technical skills." - Andy Lydic "The U.S. has limited opportunities for young American riders to race in Europe, and gravel racing can provide a unique pathway to professional cycling." - Andy Lydic Resources: BMC (Andy Lydic's bike sponsor) It Could Be Me (Andy Lydic's title sponsor) Maurten (Andy Lydic's nutrition sponsor) Northwave (Andy Lydic's shoe sponsor) Don't miss this engaging conversation with Andy Lydic as he shares his journey in the world of cycling, his experiences in gravel racing, and his aspirations for the future. Tune in to gain insights into the growing popularity of gravel racing and its potential as a pathway to professional cycling. Automated Transcript (please excuse the typos): [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Andy, welcome to the show. [00:00:04] - (): Andy Lydic: Thanks so much for having me. I'm stoked to be here. [00:00:07] - (): Craig Dalton: I'm excited to get into a little overview of your career and What's in store for you in 2024. I always love to start these conversations by just learning a little bit more about you. I mean, you've been involved in bike racing for a long time since your junior days, but why don't you just say, you know, where did you grow up and how did you originally get into cycling? **** - (): And we can kind [00:00:26] - (): Andy Lydic: of go from there. Yeah, totally. So I'm from Boulder, Colorado, grew up here in Boulder, Colorado, and got into cycling in high school, probably my junior year of high school. I used to run track and cross country, and I used to also be a downhill ski racer previous to that, and I was pretty burnt out on track and cross country as a high schooler, just didn't find it that fun. **** - (): And a bunch of my friends were doing high school mountain biking. A couple people that I knew, but weren't really my friends at the time were doing road racing as well. And my dad was pretty into the cyclocross scene here in Boulder. We've got quite a few local events in the front range area. So he got super into that and there was sunshine hill climb my junior year. **** - (): Sunshine's a big climb here in Boulder. It takes like 45 minutes or an hour or something like that. And he was like, yo dude, if you go right up sunshine during this hill climb faster than I do, I'll take you out for a burger and some ice cream. And I was like, yeah, totally. I want to go get a burger and ice cream. **** - (): So I love those dad [00:01:23] - (): Craig Dalton: incentives. I feel like I had one of those similar ones from my dad to run cross country one year. And it was like, that works for me. It doesn't have to be a big incentive. Just a little one works as a high schooler. [00:01:34] - (): Andy Lydic: Yeah, just something. So from there, I did the Sunshine Hill climb. I actually thought I was wearing a kit for the first time. **** - (): And I think I was wearing tennis shoes on my mom's road bike. And I was like, you know, it's kind of strange, you know, you're wearing tight clothes biking out in public. But then I thought about it and I was wearing short shorts running. So it's not all that different from there. I decided I wanted to do the high school mountain biking team. **** - (): So I told the cross country coach that I was going to stop running cross country and go to the high school mountain biking team. And from there, I've had a bunch of my core friends who are still a bunch of friends. Now, some of them are really high level racers, mountain bike and road just across the country and across the world. **** - (): So they got me into mountain biking for the first season. I was borrowing bikes from people from, I don't think of the five races in the Nike league, I use the same bike twice my first year, just because I was borrowing bikes from people. And from there, I progressed into, I joined the Boulder junior cycling team and had a pretty good time there. **** - (): I did. Like three races of a cyclocross season, my senior year of high school. And then also did high school mountain biking again that summer following, I was like, yeah, I'm going to get into road too. I'd been training on the road a bit and done a couple of road races with the Boulder junior cycling team and decided from there, like. **** - (): Yeah, let's see what I can do with this bike racing thing, but was still pretty focused on going to college. It was COVID when I chose where I went to school. So I ended up going to CU Boulder. I was debating between a couple schools in California and a couple schools other places in the country and mid COVID I was like, you know what? **** - (): I'm just gonna start here at CU. See how I like it. It'll give me the chance to keep riding and see how much I like riding and from there my freshman year of college. My dream of being a professional cyclist kind of really took off. And from there on, I was like, that's what I'm going to do. I want to be a professional cyclist. **** - (): I want to race on the road. And I want to see how high of a level I can get to at this store. [00:03:28] - (): Craig Dalton: Interesting. So going back to those Boulder junior cycling days, is that the type of program that is, you know, giving you guidance and really trying to create elite level athletes? I think of sort of the NICA program as like, Great jumping off point, obviously a lot of infrastructure to bring people into the sport and create good vibes around mountain bike racing. **** - (): Was Boulder Junior Cycling kind of a next level of that, which is a little bit more intentional to create elite level cyclists? [00:03:57] - (): Andy Lydic: Yeah, I think it's a bit of a step up. It's not like what you would see with the old team that used to exist, Lux, or what you'd see with Hot Tubes or something like that. But there was definitely like a lot of really talented guys from Boulder or the front range area who went through the program, guys and girls who went through the program and have stepped up to pro road level racing and pro mountain bike level racing. **** - (): You see a couple of those guys and girls are over racing in Europe now on professional teams. A couple are gravel privateers now. So I don't think the team's intention is to create elite athletes. But I think the Boulder community and some of the mentors like Joe Lewis was my first coach there and he was a pro for quite a long time and had a lot of really cool experiences that he was able to share along with us. **** - (): And it provided the platform of inspiration so that riders like myself and riders like like Bjorn Reilly or Mattie Monroe or Riley Sheehan, all those guys came through Boulder Junior Cycling and now they're racing at the top level of the sport across the world. So it's a bit of the team and I think also just a bit of the Boulder community, pretty high achieving people here. [00:05:03] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I remember moving out to Boulder from the East Coast and immediately being knocked down a peg because there's got such a great scene and such great riding out there. You mentioned starting CU Boulder during COVID. Was the CU Boulder cycling program able to be active during that first year? [00:05:24] - (): Andy Lydic: They weren't. I don't think or not at least that I was involved with because we started in 2020 fall and then 2021 spring there wasn't really road racing here in Colorado and at that point I was also racing with a club team, the cinch elite club team here in Colorado so I was just racing with them. I was a cat three and then upgraded to cat two my freshman year in college that spring. **** - (): So I don't think the CU team did a whole lot that year, or at least I wasn't super involved with it if they did. And then the fall of my sophomore year before I ended up moving to Europe to start racing, I did collegiate mountain biking. I did like two races just because it was a way to keep me motivated and have fun and been doing mountain bike racing in high school. **** - (): So I was like, I want to keep doing this. It's fun racing on the dirt. I like it. [00:06:13] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, it sounds like that experience racing kind of with, with the cinch program and you're moving up through the categories at least said, Hey, I've got some, I've got some potential here taking that potential and then saying, I'm going to move to Europe is a little bit of a leap. **** - (): So can you just talk through like what that looked like and did you just move and then try to figure it out or do you, is there a way that you contacted some programs over to Europe to help you at least have a focus point? [00:06:43] - (): Andy Lydic: Yeah, I sophomore fall was sitting in my dorm room and I was like, I want to go move to Europe and be a professional cyclist. **** - (): Like that's what I want to do. I don't want to go to school this spring. I want to be a pro cyclist. So I went on the databases of email contacts for all the teams in Spain, all the teams in France and all the teams in Italy. And I think I sent like 400 emails to every amateur team I could possibly get the contact to saying, Hey, what's up? **** - (): I'm 19 years old. These are my power numbers, I'm looking to move to Europe, I want to start racing, what can I do? And I think of the three or four hundred emails that I sent, I got like 16 total responses, and of 16 total responses, maybe like five of them weren't immediate no's. And from the non immediate no's, I had like a couple people entertain the conversation. **** - (): They're like, yeah, we might be looking for an American writer. I was like looking at France. I was looking at Italy. I was looking at Spain. I kind of knew I wanted to go to Spain because I speak a bit of Spanish just from high school. And so I was like, yeah, that might be easy. And then I connected with an agent who works with a bunch of the amateur teams in Spain. **** - (): And he got me placed on a team and he was like, yeah, man, like you fly out in February and this team's got housing for you. They'll take you to a bunch of really high level Spanish cup races and stage races across Spain. Like all you got to do is just be ready come February. And it was kind of, it was pretty uncomfortable at first cause I'm sending all these emails to a bunch of people. **** - (): I have no idea who they are, no idea what language they speak. And I'm just the silly American sending English emails saying, what's up? Here's my power file. I don't actually know how relatively good it is, but I'd really like to come race in Europe for you guys. Because that's the dream, isn't it? Like go racing for a European team. **** - (): So then from there, I ended up moving to Northern Spain and racing for an amateur team. And unfortunately that amateur team folded in March, which would be kind of set a precedent for how my amateur racing experience in Spain went on. So I raced with that team from. End of January, beginning of February, until the end of March, they folded. **** - (): I moved from northern Spain to Girona. Started racing with another team and got a really cool experience to go race in Denmark at some UCI races, and also do some other cool Spanish races with that team. And then they folded in July, sitting in Girona, just not sure what to do. And that's kind of what led to the whole gravel idea. [00:09:16] - (): Craig Dalton: And was that July, 2022, just to try to timestamp it? Yeah, July, 2022. Okay. So you're sitting in, you know, the, the road aspirations are having some, some, uh, detours and some challenges along the way. You're sitting in Girona in July. Um, yeah, talk us through, how did you spend your time the rest of that year? **** - (): Yeah. So. [00:09:38] - (): Andy Lydic: In the midst of the teams falling apart, I'd moved from the team house in Northern Spain to a friend's apartment in Girona. I was connected with a couple of different people who lived in Girona or spent time there just through Boulder, the Boulder community. A bunch of pro cyclists come and spend time here in Toronto Altitude while they're in the U. **** - (): S. And then one of my friends, Sean, was at CU Boulder and he had an apartment in Girona. So when this team folded, I was like, Hey man, can I come crash with you for a couple of weeks? And in that time, I was just training, hanging out in Toronto, get to meet a whole bunch of pro cyclists, which is really cool. **** - (): And at that time you're enamored because you're like, wow, like everybody here is a pro cyclist. Everybody here knows what's going on. And you found out after a couple months that all factor wears off and you're like, wow, like I'm, I'm just living here. This is pretty sweet. So from that time after the team folded, I came back. **** - (): Or after the second team folded in July, I came back to the US and I knew I had a prospect with a team that was hopefully gonna be starting in the fall of 2022 and gonna be officially a UCI team in the spring of 2023. And so I had that idea in my back pocket, came back to the US when I was back in Boulder for, I think it was like a month and a half total of 2022. **** - (): I raced Steamboat Gravel. I did a pretty decent ride there and that was my second time doing Steamboat Gravel and at that point I was convinced I was racing with this team that was going to be a Conti team. I had a good ride there, went back over to Europe, moved into another apartment in Toronto where I was living with some of the guys that were going to be on that team. **** - (): And we're supposed to be going to university in Girona, and the whole premise of the team was like, you're part of the team, you're going to university, and you got to learn how to become a professional athlete and somebody off the bike as well, which is super cool idea, super cool concept, and I think there's definitely space for a program like that in the sport. **** - (): This one just. Didn't end up working out. So they then fell apart in the fall. And while that was all happening, we were, me and the other guys who were supposed to be routing for the team were kind of like, okay, well we're gonna have to figure out what's next. And some of these guys were like, oh, just gonna go back to the us. **** - (): Other guys were holding on seeing if they could race with other Spanish teams. Spanish amateur teams. 'cause we were all in Spain already. So it just makes sense too. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? I've done gravel a couple times. I've done Steamboat gravel twice, and I did a local race here in Colorado. **** - (): That's pretty fun. And those races are really hard. So I want to see, you know, there's privateers popping up in the U S and there's a booming scene in the U S and there's a couple of races in Europe. What can I do to make, make that an actual thing? So then in the fall of 2022, I got a pretty good result at one of the UCI qualifiers and was able to go to the first ever UCI gravel world championships in Italy. **** - (): And that was a super cool experience because, you know, it was my first ever world championships, my first time ever seeing a bike race at that high of a level. And I was able to ride for the elite team because there hadn't been a whole lot of people who were super interested. Everyone, all the American riders were like, Oh, this is a test event. **** - (): We're going to see where this goes. And I had qualified and I was like, I want to see if I can race for the elite team. So sent some emails back and forth with you and say, cycling, they made that a pretty easy process, but it wasn't really team oriented that year. So we all just showed up, got our own accommodations, our own hotels. **** - (): I traveled with some of the friends I was living with in Toronto and yeah, just had a blast. Like, yeah. What an amazing experience. That whole trip. That race was super cool. And it was my first time getting to race against guys that were that high of a level you got to race against. Yeah. Like Matthew Vanderpool and wow. **** - (): Then our, and Greg Van Avermaet were all there. And then I'm at the back of the field. I didn't know how sick I was, but I had COVID it ended up and I was super sick, ended up DNFing the race. But I look back at that experience and I was like, that was. One of the coolest races I've ever done like standing at the start line, looking at my superheroes. **** - (): That's [00:13:43] - (): Craig Dalton: pretty sweet. Yeah, it sounds amazing. So it sounds like, you know, you had, it's the end of the season. I think October 2022 would be the timeframe of that UCI world gravel championships. So then you're looking at 2023. Your road program has dissolved at that point. What were your plans for 2023? [00:14:05] - (): Andy Lydic: Uh, I think it was officially December 15th or December 12th or something like that, that we were told the road program wasn't going to go on, wasn't going to exist. **** - (): So then we were all kind of scrambling and I was, the UCF just announced... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/30249848

Gravel Community Organizer, Andy Chasteen, Discusses the Rule of Three Event in Bentonville, AR. 02/28/2024

Gravel Community Organizer, Andy Chasteen, Discusses the Rule of Three Event in Bentonville, AR. Andy Chasteen, co-director of the Rule of Three gravel event in Bentonville, Arkansas, joins host Craig Dalton to discuss the vibrant gravel cycling community in Northwest Arkansas. They delve into the importance of connectivity and safe infrastructure for cyclists, the origins of the Rule of Three event, and the unique experience it offers with a combination of pavement, gravel, and singletrack. Andy also shares his perspective on event organization and the value of creating a memorable and enjoyable experience for participants. Don't miss this engaging conversation about the growth and excitement surrounding gravel cycling in Bentonville. Rule of Three Episode sponsor: (use code CRAIG for 15% off) Join About the Guest(s): Andy Chasteen is an avid cyclist and the co-founder of Rule of Three, a unique gravel cycling event held in Bentonville, Arkansas. He has a background in rock climbing and ultra marathoning, which led him to discover his passion for cycling. Andy is also a consultant in the outdoor industry and has worked with brands like Allied Cycle Works. He is dedicated to creating a vibrant cycling community in Northwest Arkansas and promoting the gravel riding experience. Episode Summary: In this episode, Craig Dalton interviews Andy Chasteen, co-founder of Rule of Three, about the vibrant gravel cycling community in Northwest Arkansas and the unique gravel event they organize. They discuss the growth of Bentonville as a cycling destination, the importance of connectivity and safe infrastructure, and the origins of Rule of Three. Andy shares his journey from rock climbing to cycling and his passion for creating events that offer a challenging yet enjoyable experience for participants. He also emphasizes the value of different types of gravel events and the need for inclusivity in the cycling community. Key Takeaways: Bentonville, Arkansas, has become a thriving cycling destination with a strong focus on connectivity and safe infrastructure. Rule of Three is a gravel cycling event that combines pavement, gravel, and single track sections to create a challenging and engaging experience. The event aims to provide a unique and fun atmosphere for participants, with a focus on community building and inclusivity. Andy Chasteen believes that gravel cycling offers a more accessible and enjoyable experience for riders of all skill levels. Rule of Three is committed to delivering a high-quality event and prioritizes participant experience over profit. Notable Quotes: "We're building gravel connectors that are not used by cars. They're just for cyclists to get from the center of Bentonville out into these rural areas." - Andy Chasteen "Gravel riding resonated with my culture and personality. It felt like home." - Andy Chasteen "Our goal is to put on the best event possible for the people that show up." - Andy Chasteen Automated Transcription. Please excuse the typos: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Andy welcome to the show. [00:00:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: Thank you. It's an honor to be here. I've been listening to you for a long time. [00:00:08] - (): Craig Dalton: That's amazing [00:00:09] - (): Andy Chasteen: to hear Andy. Well, sometimes it's just weird to be on a podcast that you've been listening to and you're talking to the person that you listen to all the time. So it's. It can be awkward, but it's great. **** - (): It's an honor to be here. Thank you. [00:00:20] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I feel like I've been observing your antics from afar for a while. So I feel like I know you a little bit, but it's the first time I think that we've actually got a chance to chat. [00:00:30] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Yeah. I'm S I'm super stoked to talk to you. So sweet, [00:00:34] - (): Craig Dalton: well, a lot of people will have heard of rule of three, and I definitely want to get into that event. **** - (): Super excited to talk to you about that and, um, gravel cycling in Northwest Arkansas as well. Just as a general topic, because I know as we were talking about offline, that community that you're part of cultivating and a member of is just. So vibrant that, uh, you know, I just love to hear stories from the ground and how other communities can mimic what you're doing and the passion that the community seems to have for gravel riding. [00:01:04] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. It's, uh, you know, as we were, as we were talking a few minutes ago, there's a lot going on here and, uh, it's quite exciting. And as we like to stay around here, we're, uh, we're just on first base, which is kind of, which is kind of exciting to, to even say, yeah. [00:01:19] - (): Craig Dalton: And for those of us who have been to Bentonville to. **** - (): To, to hear you describe it as first base is insane because you've got great infrastructure. You can get around town on bike paths, but that's just the tip tip tip of the iceberg. There's a couple of substantial mountain bike areas and obviously miles and miles and miles of great gravel as demonstrated in the big sugar gravel event every [00:01:41] - (): Andy Chasteen: year. **** - (): That's right. And, uh, you know, we're working on, you know, like you said, connectivity, and I don't mean to jump straight into this, but like a lot of what we are working on in the Bentonville area is connectivity. How can we connect neighborhoods, uh, you know, business centers and just life in general to trail and gravel road and safe connectors to get out into these rural area, like. **** - (): That's a, that's a thing that's been on our mind for, you know, well, for, for a while, but what we've really focused on in the past year is, is really making, it's connecting, uh, Bentonville or the Northwest Arkansas area to the ride experience, which has been a fun, a fun time for [00:02:24] - (): Craig Dalton: sure. Yeah, I bet. You know, that, that safe connector thread, I think is so important because a lot of areas are great for cycling, but you have to get there and many of us want to ride there. **** - (): And if riding there is dangerous, that's just going to prevent people from enjoying the sport in the way we want them to. [00:02:42] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah, uh, the lens with which we've been looking at, uh, let's, let's just stay on the gravel side for now, but like the lens with which we've been looking at the gravel side of the, you know, the experience in Northwest Arkansas is, has been heavily towards, okay. **** - (): This area is growing. This area is growing very, very fast. And there's, there are some things that we cannot control and we can't control growth. You know, we, we, we don't, you know, we want the Bentonville Northwest Arkansas area to grow and be prosperous. And, you know, but we also have to make sure that that experience for the rider is You know, safe, it's enjoyable. **** - (): Um, it's, uh, it's approachable for someone who might be brand new. So that's kind of the lens with which we've been looking at the gravel experience. And quite honestly, we're building gravel connectors that are not used by cars. They're just for cyclists to get from. Say, let's just say for right now, uh, the center of Bentonville out into these rural areas. **** - (): So as Bentonville grows and the footprint expands, those will be protected in perpetuity for their gravel experience, which is really cool. And I'm maybe there's other, you know, communities doing that. But if, if they are, I'm not aware of it. And it really is this amazing foresight, uh, to where 20 years from now, we hope that the gravel experience is protected and enhanced and, uh, and it's still what it currently is. **** - (): So. [00:04:11] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's probably worth, you know, I've, I've spoken about Bentonville a couple of times on the podcast before, but it's probably worth noting that the sort of. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the major employer in Bentonville is Walmart and then entities that are related to Walmart. And it's just, it's been there for many, many years. **** - (): Sure. The Walmart family has had a commitment to investing in cycling infrastructure. So that when they're thinking about their new campus from the ground up, they're always thinking about how can people ride bikes in and it seems from an outsider's perspective that that's infused across the entire town. **** - (): Just this idea that bikes are going to be part of this community and to your recent point, we're going to build in infrastructure from the onset of planning, not try to slap it on after we've built a subdivision or grown the community in [00:05:02] - (): Andy Chasteen: some way. That's right. There has to be some foresight and you're right there. **** - (): That's the, that's the, that's the focus for sure. And it can't be done. Like you said, behind the ball, we have to be ahead of the ball on that. You know, for example, the walmart's building a new, uh, ginormous, uh, home office campus and on that campus will be single track and there's initiatives within the, within the home office, you know, To, to have a certain percentage of people commuting there, you know, to, to work on, you know, on a weekly basis. **** - (): And so there is a lot of foresight within, you know, cycling and riding a bike is not only healthy, but it makes, you know, it's just, it's better for a community as well. So, yeah, absolutely. [00:05:44] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. And as an off road cyclist, I remember going from my Airbnb to an event that the people, people for bikes conference people were having at the, that great museum you have there. **** - (): And I remember Bridges. Yeah, Crystal Bridges. Yeah. And I remember having the opportunity to ride single track just on the way there to get from point A to point B. And I was like, this is fantastic. [00:06:07] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. There's kids, you know, kids ride single track to school every day, which I mean, yeah, I'm a little jealous cause I wish I would have had that experience, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's, we got a lot going on here. **** - (): There's it's. I like to use the word bonkers. There's a lot of bonkers things going on here. It's busy. It's bustling and it's great. If you're a bike rider, it's hard for me to think there's a better place to be. That's for sure. [00:06:32] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, no, I agree. It's definitely someplace everybody needs to visit at some point. **** - (): You know, Northwest Arkansas 10 years ago might not have been on people's radar as a cyclist as a place to go. And now I think unequivocally for anybody who's set foot in that town of Bentonville in that area, it's an emphatic yes, go visit. [00:06:51] - (): Andy Chasteen: That's right. Yeah, for sure. For [00:06:52] - (): Craig Dalton: sure. You were talking about sort of childhood and the ability to ride to school, etc. **** - (): Yeah. Let's, let's roll back a second and just kind of learn a little bit more about where you grew up, Andy. And how'd you find the bike originally? [00:07:05] - (): Andy Chasteen: Well, man, that's a long story, but I'll try to, I'll try to keep it short. Uh, I grew up in Southern Missouri, kind of right across the border, actually from Northwest Arkansas. **** - (): It's a really small town. Went off to college. Um, I played, I actually played basketball in college and, uh, you know, in, into team sports, basically, you know, my entire childhood and into, you know, probably 21, 22 years old. And then after I graduated college, I, I got obsessed with rock climbing for some weird reason and, uh, and got really into rock climbing, ultra marathoning. **** - (): Um, and like I said, like a very long story made very short, maybe not very short, but short, um, I was running the, I was running ultra marathons and in order to train for ultra marathons, I'm like a big guy by like 200 and I knew that I couldn't run a lot of miles to train for these ultras. And so what I would do is I would go out for like, you know, maybe like a 10 mile trail run and then I would jump on a bicycle. **** - (): I wasn't a cyclist, but I would jump on a bicycle. To take that, you know, pressure off of my joints and like keep injury free. And so I, I would go out and jump on a bicycle for four hours and I just got hooked, completely hooked and really the rest is history, been on a bike ever since. Um, and you know. I still love to do all these. **** - (): I love outdoor endeavor, outdoor rec, anything outdoor rec, paddling, you know, climbing trail. I like all that, but my obsession is certainly with the bike. So, um, that's the, that's the short story and we [00:08:39] - (): Craig Dalton: did you discover yourself as a, as a mountain biker in those early days or what, what was your niche of choice? [00:08:46] - (): Andy Chasteen: Uh, at the time I was actually living in, in Oklahoma city and which, which is, you know, It's there's, there's not a lot of what I would consider like great bike riding there, but the community is amazing. It's a very tight knit, not a big community, very tight knit, but it's very road centric. Um, so I started off kind of on the road bike and, uh, you know, I raced, I did road racing and crate racing and all that. **** - (): And, uh, I, I was, I was certainly into mountain biking at the time, but that wasn't what I spent most of my days doing. So it kind of started on the road. [00:09:17] - (): Craig Dalton: Gotcha. Since we're going to get into the rule of three event that you're putting on there in Bentonville, I think it's going to be interesting to just talk about your journey and experience as an event organizer. **** - (): And I know from your bio that a rock, a big rock climbing event happened sometime. In that period. So why don't you walk us through like that event? Cause I think it is for those of you who haven't heard of Horseshoe hell, go look it up. I think I S I want to say I saw, uh, some stuff on Red Bull TV about it, but I've read about it now outside magazine over the years. **** - (): So it's a really amazing event, but I'd love to just hear how it got started because I think it's part of your origin story as someone who stuck up their hand and said, I can put on an [00:10:00] - (): Andy Chasteen: event. Yeah, for sure. So like, you know, rewind back when I was in this very obsessive rock climbing phase and, uh, you know, there's a, there's this beautiful, beautiful canyon out in, uh, in Arkansas called, uh, Horseshoe Canyon Ranch, and they have, you know, 600, uh, you know, sport routes. **** - (): Um, so single pitch technical, you know, sport route, rock climbing. And I would spend a lot of time there in kind of the early years of my climbing. And we just, me and some buddies, when we can get this crazy idea, it's, it's kind of an outdoor climbing gym. You got a route here, you can climb this route, you take, you know, 10 steps to your right and you got another one, you know what I mean? **** - (): It's like route on route on right on route. And they're all really good routes. And so I, we got this wild idea to put on an event that was like a 24 hour rock climbing competition, which seems. Idiotic. Yeah. Had anybody [00:10:54] - (): Craig Dalton: done that in the past? No, no, no. Yeah, we have like on the mountain bike side, there's 24 hour mountain bike racing, but sounds like it was a totally foreign concept. [00:11:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: Very foreign. Of course, very, very foreign. Um, and so, and all my buddies thought it was a great idea, but nobody really wanted to like I kind of take the reins. So I took the reins and, uh, and, uh, you know, I, it's a private, it's a private property. So I, you know, I went and asked the owner and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. **** - (): You can do that. And just, and thus started this beautiful relationship. This is 2006. And, uh, this, this beautiful relationship with this, with this great, amazing place. And we built this. really cool experience where it started off as a 24 hour rock climbing competition, but now it's a five day festival, right? **** - (): And so, uh, outside climbing or I'm sorry, outside magazine calls it the burning man of rock climbing. So you got people in costumes and it's a five day love fest party, right? Like, It's I like to say, you know, you can come here and be anybody you want to be for five days as long as you're respectful to, you know, to your fellow, you know, people there. **** - (): So, um, and the rest is history. It still happens. We're still, we're still doing it. And, uh, even though I'm not like a huge climber is into it as I used to be, um, it's still, it's still a raging, we can, we can only allow 500 competitors, um, so that people can like. Accomplish their goals that they set out, you know, for that 24 hours, we can only let 500 people in, but it the amount of spectators that come and the people who just want to kind of party for the weekend is way beyond that. **** - (): So, yeah, it's really cool. And oddly enough, I'd never put on a bit before that. I had never even been to a rock climbing competition before I put that on. And sometimes I think that that is actually the golden ticket. Like, yeah. It's almost better to not know how things are done or they're supposed to be done when you're trying to do something that way you can be creative and kind of do, you know, something a little different. **** - (): So anyways, that was kind of the origins of my first event. And I don't consider myself. I still don't consider myself an event promoter because I have always just done them for fun. I've always had a real job. And, uh, but these have always been for fun and we've cultivated beautiful communities behind them. **** - (): And that's, that's what I'm proud of, um, in these events. [00:13:15] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Amazing. I'll make sure to link to Horseshoe Howell. Cause I just, I think it's a fascinating story and the pictures that come out every year. Yeah, [00:13:22] - (): Andy Chasteen: it looks awesome. It's a real wild time. It's a real wild. [00:13:26] - (): Craig Dalton: Is it a two person team for 24 hours or is it solo? **** - (): That's [00:13:30] - (): Andy Chasteen: it's a two person team. Cause you have to have a belayer obviously. So the whole idea is like, but there are categories just like any other event. Like, you know, there's categories for the most amount of routes climbed by a team or an individual or the F the most amount of, uh, Uh, routes climb that are certain, you know, difficulty level or whatever the case may be. **** - (): So you, there's all these just like, um, like kind of like the Tour de France. There's a race, there's lots of races within the race. There's lots of categories within this bit, this one event that you can actually go after, which is kind of cool. [00:14:02] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. So much fun. So much fun. When did you find yourself actually moving to Bentonville and what, what attracted you to, to that area? **** - (): Uh, [00:14:12] - (): Andy Chasteen: I'm trying to think of how many years ago that was that I, that I moved to Bentonville. I, I originally, I originally, uh, became involved in the Bentonville area through, um, I'm self employed. I'm a consultant in basically really what I I've always considered like the biker outdoor industry. And so I really started coming to Bentonville years ago, um, as a consultant for different brands in the industry. **** - (): So I, you know, I had go to Bentonville and, uh, in my sprinter van and, uh, and spend, you know, you know, Half of a month there at a time. I spent half my time there, uh, just kind of living out of the van and working for clients and doing work that way. And,... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/30143938

Trek Travel Introduces Epic Gravel Tour from Provence to Girona 02/20/2024

Trek Travel Introduces Epic Gravel Tour from Provence to Girona This week on the podcast we welcome Thomas English from Trek Travel to discuss the Provence to Girona gravel tour. Thomas shares his personal experience growing up in the Camargue National Park and how he discovered his love for cycling. He discusses the inspiration behind the Provence to Girona tour and the unique landscapes and cultural experiences that participants can expect. Thomas provides a detailed overview of the nine-day trip, highlighting the diverse terrain, cultural differences, and the sense of adventure that comes with gravel cycling. He emphasizes the importance of local expertise and the immersive experience that Trek Travel provides for its guests. Trek Gravel Join About the Guest(s): Thomas English is a guide for Trek Travel, a company that specializes in guided cycling trips. Based in Lyon, France, Thomas grew up in the Camargue National Park and developed a love for cycling at a young age. He has a background in field medical engineering but decided to pursue his passion for cycling and guiding. Thomas has been working for Trek Travel since 2019 and has guided numerous trips, including the Provence to Girona gravel tour. Episode Summary: In this episode, Craig Dalton interviews Thomas English from Trek Travel about the Provence to Girona gravel tour. Thomas shares his personal experience growing up in the Camargue National Park and how he discovered his love for cycling. He discusses the inspiration behind the Provence to Girona tour and the unique landscapes and cultural experiences that participants can expect. Thomas provides a detailed overview of the nine-day trip, highlighting the diverse terrain, cultural differences, and the sense of adventure that comes with gravel cycling. He emphasizes the importance of local expertise and the immersive experience that Trek Travel provides for its guests. Key Takeaways: The Provence to Girona gravel tour is a nine-day point-to-point cycling adventure that takes participants from the south of France to Catalonia, Spain. The trip offers a diverse range of terrain, including salt flats, vineyards, pine forests, and limestone rock formations. Participants will experience the cultural differences between the French and Catalan regions, including language, cuisine, and architecture. The tour provides an immersive and authentic experience, with opportunities to interact with locals, visit historic sites, and enjoy the natural beauty of the landscapes. Trek Travel focuses on building relationships with local partners and creating a supportive and enjoyable experience for guests. Notable Quotes: "Gravel in many ways has an adventurous spirit. It takes you off the road and allows you to explore quieter and more remote areas." - Thomas English "Cycling is a universal language, but the culture and use of bikes can vary between regions. Gravel cycling allows you to experience the local culture and landscapes in a unique way." - Thomas English Automated Transcription: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport **** - (): I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. **** - (): Yeah. This week on the podcast, we welcome Thomas English from Trek, travel to the show. To talk to us about a new gravel tour they're doing from Two Jarana. The trip looks absolutely amazing. So super excited. To dig in with it and learn more about it and how it came to be. Truck travel since our last conversation with them on the podcast. Has really gone deep on gravel travel, building out several new trips this year, including one in the black Hills of South Dakota. An ACIAR ago to the Dolomites trip in Italy, as well as this To Jerome and a trip that we're going to be digging into today. **** - (): I had a great experience. In 2022 on my truck travel trip to Jarana and was doing everything I could to join this trip in April. I don't think this particular one's going to happen. Because of some other commitments, **** - (): . But I'm pleased to have this conversation with Thomas. So you can learn more about it. **** - (): before we jump in, I do need to thank this week sponsor. **** - (): A G one. The last few weeks, I've been talking a little bit more about my sleep routine, but today I want to talk about age one and my morning routine. Taking care of your health, isn't easy, but it should at least be simple. That's why for the last 10 years I've been drinking AIG one every day. No exceptions. **** - (): It's just one scoop mixed with water. My personal preference is through a few ice cubes in there. Once a day, every day and it makes me feel energized and ready to take on the day. That's because each serving of AIG. Delivers a daily dose of vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics and more. It's a powerful, healthy habit. **** - (): That's also powerfully simple. For me, that simplicity is really what came into play. When I first started using ag. I really wanted to make sure that my nutritional bases were covered by high-quality nutrition. In a way that was simple to integrate in my daily habits. I couldn't bear the idea of taking a dozen pills and supplements to cover the same. Basic areas that AIG one covers in one scoop of powder. If there's one product that had to recommend elevate your health it's ag one. That's why I've partnered with them. For so long as part of this podcast. So, if you want to take ownership of your health, start with Tri AIG one and get a free one year supply of vitamin D plus K2 and five free AIG. Travel packs with your first purchase. **** - (): Exclusively at drink. aig.com/the gravel ride. That's drink. dot com slash the gravel ride. Check it out today. Would that behind us, let's jump right into my conversation with Thomas. **** - (): Thomas, welcome to the show. [00:03:17] - (): Thomas English: Hi, Greg. Thank you for hosting me. [00:03:19] - (): Craig Dalton: We're dealing with the challenges of international video conversations today with you in France and me in California. [00:03:28] - (): Thomas English: Absolutely. Long distances. [00:03:32] - (): Craig Dalton: Um, I'm excited to get into this conversation with you. Uh, I've been a big fan of Trek's commitment and enthusiasm around gravel travel. **** - (): And when my buddy Rich hit me up and told me about this Provence to Girona trip, I was like, I got to talk to someone about this. This sounds awesome. [00:03:52] - (): Thomas English: It's epic. So the, the idea of the trip came in about two years ago now. Uh, I was involved in the design because my roommate is actually a trip design coordinator, if you want the truth. **** - (): So the two of us got this whole thing running and it's going to be an epic journey. [00:04:11] - (): Craig Dalton: I love it. I can't wait to talk more about it, but to set the stage, I just want to learn a little bit more about you. We established that you're currently living in France. But where did you grow up and how did you initially find the bike? [00:04:24] - (): Thomas English: So long story short, uh, I'm actually based in Lyon, France right now. So closer to the French Alps, about two and a half hours away from the sea. I actually grew up in the Camargue National Park, which is where the The Rome River creates a delta. It's famous for mosquitos, flamingos, and, uh, bulls, if you want the whole truth. **** - (): And it's very flat, so cycling wise, it gets pretty boring pretty quickly. But the scenery is worth it. And if you're beginning with gravel, it's definitely a good spot to start. [00:04:58] - (): Craig Dalton: And, you know, obviously gravel, we can argue about how long gravel has been around, but did you initially start as a road rider [00:05:05] - (): Thomas English: or a mountain biker? **** - (): That's a very tricky question, because I think when, when you start cycling for me, it was, it was, you know, the first key to freedom my parents gave me. I was fortunate enough as a kid to grow up on a boat. So I think I grew this lack of, uh, you know, freedom for a little while being being like. On a boat with with parents. **** - (): It sounds very spoiled, but we were adventuring in a different way. It's more swimming and and canoeing out to places. And so as soon as we got back to lands, the bike was this this real weapon of freedom and this tool to go adventure and come back in late and get told by my mom. But I think, yeah, it was one bike does it all and I think I, I mainly did mountain biking as a teenager because it was a thing, you know, it was the era of downhill and free rides as they used to call it. **** - (): It's taken a whole new shape nowadays and gravel came naturally because we, we can do it in many ways. And especially as a company, I think it's, it's a trend and it's very much growing at the moment and it's the perfect. You know, where to explore a new region and mainly you can just get off the roads and go to, you know, access quieter places and places you, you'd wish to go on foot, but you can actually do it with the bike and it hasn't got to be too much of a distance on the road. **** - (): Yeah, 100%. [00:06:23] - (): Craig Dalton: It sounds like you grew up with quite an adventurous spirit. How did you find your way into guiding for Trek? [00:06:29] - (): Thomas English: I started working for Trek for in, in 2019. So this is my sixth season, which I travel and. It's an, it's an amazing place to, to work, uh, good people, you know, the, the support and logistics from A to Z, uh, whatever you get on the guest experience, when you call up the office or the guest services, uh, we feel on, on in the field and feeling that supports from, from, you know, a guide in the field, you don't really find that anywhere else. **** - (): So that's one, one thing to mention. Uh, but I, I, I kind of fell into it because I have a friend that was a guide a year before me. That was the one of the first reasons. Um, but mainly because I was working as a field medical engineer, uh, in the previous life. And there is a moment where you want to follow your dream. **** - (): And I was out there adventuring in the mountains every weekend. So I realized I could do it for a living and take people with me, which is what I care for. [00:07:31] - (): Craig Dalton: Amazing. I feel like. It might be interesting to hear, what is the life of a guide like? Do you, do you ride all year round and guide all over the place? **** - (): Or are you located in France and you only ride trips in [00:07:46] - (): Thomas English: France? So that's a fascinating question that we often get from people on the trips, from people outside the trips, from friends and family, or from the first newcomer that you, you, you meet in a, in a party in an evening, for instance. I, I think the life of a guide is is very much full on. **** - (): It's a season is very long in cycling and it's getting longer. Uh, it's some people would rather do it as a very seasonal thing, like riding through the nice period in the, when it's warm and you can ride in shorts and then there'll be a ski instructor in the winter. So. Each guide kind of have their, their own algorithm to, to go about it. **** - (): Uh, for me, it's, it's a full time commitment and then I get a bit of time off, uh, in the winter months to go travel and discover new places. And it kind of sticks to my, my character and my way of doing things. I like to go work hard, play hard in many ways, even though that sounds, uh, Very, very general, it's full season and then a bit of time off to, to go and relax and recover and adventure some more, but it is, it is a lifestyle more than a career. [00:08:56] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. What does that look like for you, Thomas? So are you guiding road trips into Spain one week and then gravel trips in, in France? How does, how does the year end up playing out? So [00:09:07] - (): Thomas English: at the end of the year, when -you've already guided a little bit, which I travel, you submit a survey to the favorite regions or your favorite regions, your top five. **** - (): I think it is, um, places you'd rather you'd like to go guide. And if you're lucky, you're going to get a few of those pics. Um, but for the, for the main part, you're, you're assigned to a region for a duration of time. It can go from, um, A couple of trips to a whole bunch of different trips in that region. **** - (): We have regions that also cover multiple trips. If I take Provence, for instance, we're actually running three trips out of there and nearly a fourth with the gravel, which will be leaving Provence and going all the way to Spain and sorry, Catalonia and Girona. And so. That's, that's more or less how it operates. **** - (): You're assigned and then you, you'll guide multiple weeks in a row. We try and we try and do maybe three weeks in one week off as a rhythm. [00:10:04] - (): Craig Dalton: Got it. Yeah. And my, my experience with the team in Girona was that, that between the two guides, they would switch off between time in the van. And time riding. It wasn't lost on me that you've got it as a guide. **** - (): You've got to be motivated and enthusiastic every day. You're out there on the bike with guests as a guest. If we're tired, if we're grumpy, we can suffer and let you know it. But I imagine as a guide, you're really there to elevate the spirit and never share if you're down. Are there days on the bike when you're guiding that you're just tired? [00:10:41] - (): Thomas English: Oh, yes, absolutely. And, but you don't show it. I think it comes from, from an inner part of you, it's, that's what I said by it's a lifestyle more than a career. It's, um, we always swap with, uh, our co guides. Uh, so one of us is going to be in the support van, one of us is going to be on the bike. It takes different shifts, uh, depending on the trips and the parameters. **** - (): Uh, but yes, you, you're always on, we're always on top of things. And. You know, a lot of people on the outside of the job think that we are the fittest cyclists out there and you've got to be an absolute athlete. You, you get the training for sure. And, and some guys are more into cycling than others. Uh, but the, the real, the reality behind it is we take care of people no matter what. **** - (): Yeah. [00:11:24] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. I imagine that's, you know, I see this. All over the place, right? You have people who are innately just skilled at being good spirited, being uplifting and having had that experience with truck travel and that Girona gravel tour definitely saw that like it was more about the experience. **** - (): None of the riders were trying to show how strong they were as athletes, although clearly they were, they were really there to just make sure we were having a great time. And that's what I think is so great about traveling on bike as a guest and gravel travel in particular. You just have a team around you whose sole job it is to not only find the best rides and routes for you, find the best cafes, create the best overall experience. **** - (): And it is, you know, it's obviously an investment taking one of these trips, but there is a pretty massive return when all you need to do as a guest is ride your bike all day. [00:12:25] - (): Thomas English: Yes, and I'll double up, I'll double up on that in a way that I think you come on a holiday to be on a holiday and There is nothing more relaxing entertaining Fulfilling as when you sign up and you just let go of everything and you just have to enjoy it That's that's the main part is we take care of all the rest the you know, the logistics It's not that you're not necessarily capable of Of it, you know, I've, I've caught myself going on multiple guided trips, whether it's hiking or other activities, um, other than cycling and you, you, you appreciate having the, the local expertise, you know, it, it might not be something that's, that's in the itinerary, you know, but, but your guides might know so much about the geology, the plants, or even just the best cafe, because that's where they cycle past every morning and that's their local, their local terrain or their backyard. **** - (): And that's where it makes the whole, the whole world of difference. You. Okay. The impact of, of that vacation or of that experience on your life is so different when you actually witness it with someone local and you share it with friends. Yeah, a [00:13:32] - (): Craig Dalton: hundred percent. I want to jump into the Provence to Girona gravel bike tour. **** - (): This is very much a tour because it's point to point the experience I had with track out of Girona. We stayed in a single hotel and we explored routes in every single direction, which was fantastic. But as I've said before on this podcast, there's something about point to point travel or touring or what have you that is incredibly special. **** - (): So how did the idea for the Provence to Girona gravel route come up? And then we can dig into some of [00:14:08] - (): Thomas English: the details. Okay, so that also refers to a question you previously asked on what does the life of a guide look like? Well, to be quite frank if I'm not guiding a trip with people on board I'm usually bikepacking and I've got the packs all set up on the gravel bike and I'm sleeping outside Which sounds ridiculous to a lot of people in on this planet But it's actually one of the most freeing experiences you you can get out there for yourself. **** - (): It doesn't have to be far It's sometimes just right out right out your front door and you just roll to a place you haven't checked out or you haven't seen and It is the most it is the most freeing thing and you're also you feel very Self sufficient it teaches you a lot of different things and skills where you have to approach people and places Uh, but the main idea behind this trip from Provence to Girona, and we named it that way because there, there are two places that actually ring, uh, or resonate to cyclists, uh, whether they're roadies or already very much accomplished gravel riders. **** - (): Uh, it was the first point to point that we, we were thinking of putting in the book. It's based on a race called, a race route called La Poco Loco that came together, I think in 2019. And it's very tracks since then, but that's what really inspired me initially, and I had written portions of it in a, in a few bits and pieces and on different holiday times. **** - (): And this was the perfect, this was a perfect opportunity to actually start from one point, go all the way and see if we can actually make it work with hotels and accommodations and places to check out. It [00:15:46] - (): Craig Dalton: sounds super special. What is, I imagine over the course of that Provence to Girona, the terrain is going to vary quite wildly. **** - (): Can you talk through a little bit and if it's helpful to talk through the various nine days, just what is gravel like in Provence and how does it change over the course of those nine days? [00:16:09] - (): Thomas English: So I can give you a global overview of of the trip if you want not to go into too much detail because nine days is It's quite epic and and you do see a lot But I do want to say that I grew up in in the area where we begin the trip in so, you know I remember I remember being in in my youth in my young age and teenager and adventuring here and there at the weekends And putting all these things... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29998698

Training for Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking: Insights from Author and Coach Stefan Barth 02/13/2024

Training for Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking: Insights from Author and Coach Stefan Barth In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews Stefan Barth, author of the book "Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking: All You Need to Know." Stefan shares his journey into ultra cycling and bikepacking, discussing the challenges and unique aspects of these long-distance events. He highlights the importance of sleep, nutrition, and positioning in preparing for and competing in ultra cycling races. Stefan also emphasizes the need for a strong physical foundation and the role of mindset in overcoming obstacles during these demanding events. Ultra Cycling and Bike Packing. All you need to know (Amazon ) ISBN: 978-3-910501-03-4 Episode Sponsor: (use code: CRAIG for 15% off) Join About the Guest(s): Stefan Barth is an author and coach specializing in ultra cycling and bikepacking. Based in Frankfurt, Germany, Stefan has a passion for long-distance cycling events and has participated in races such as the Race Across America and the Transcontinental. With a background in medical fitness coaching, Stefan combines his knowledge of training, nutrition, and mindset to help athletes prepare for and succeed in ultra cycling events. Episode Summary: In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews Stefan Barth, author of the book "Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking: All You Need to Know." Stefan shares his journey into ultra cycling and bikepacking, discussing the challenges and unique aspects of these long-distance events. He highlights the importance of sleep, nutrition, and positioning in preparing for and competing in ultra cycling races. Stefan also emphasizes the need for a strong physical foundation and the role of mindset in overcoming obstacles during these demanding events. Key Takeaways: Ultra cycling and bikepacking require a different approach to training compared to shorter races. Factors such as sleep, nutrition, and positioning become crucial in ensuring success. Sleep strategies vary depending on the duration of the event. While shorter races may not require sleep, longer races necessitate planned sleep breaks to maintain physical and mental well-being. Nutrition plays a vital role in sustaining energy levels during ultra cycling events. Experimenting with different foods and finding what works best for individual digestion is essential. Positioning on the bike is crucial for efficiency and energy conservation. An aggressive position, combined with flexibility and mobility training, can improve performance and reduce energy expenditure. Building endurance for ultra cycling involves training at or just below threshold levels for extended periods. Long intervals of 20-30 minutes at high intensity can help increase the ability to sustain effort near threshold. Notable Quotes: "Just because it's possible to push through doesn't mean it's fun. Cutting off sleep is a sure way to get rid of the fun." - Stefan Barth "Your base or your fundamentals are always a good physical condition. That's what you really need to finish those events." - Stefan Barth Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [TRANSCRIPT] **** - (): . [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport **** - (): I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. **** - (): This week on the podcast, I've got the great pleasure of welcoming author and coach Stefan Barth. He's the author of a book called ultra cycling and bike packing. All you need to know that was recently translated from German to English. It's a very deep technical book. About ultra cycling and these long distance events. Highlighting how different the training. Preparation and otherwise competing successfully the events. Needs to occur. **** - (): Stefan noted that in his preparation for ultrasonic. Recycling events. While he could cobble together a number of resources, podcasts, videos, et cetera. There was no singular location. That highlighted insights and philosophies and training methodologies. That he could find. So he sat on a journey to create the, this book. They look forward to jumping into the conversation with Stefan. **** - (): Okay. Before we jump in, I do need to thank pillar performance for their support of this episode. Pillars of sports, micro nutrition company. Who's developed products that intersect between pharmaceutical intervention and sports supplements for athletes. As I mentioned previously, I'm really thinking about my overall health and wellbeing this year. **** - (): Trying to make some changes from a lackluster 2023. **** - (): My nighttime routine and sleep has become a crucial part of being able to perform my best pillars. Triple magnesium is informed by leading heart rate variability researcher, Dr. Dan Pluse and used by many high performing athletes. Pillar has recently signed on as the official micronutrition partner of Israel, premier tech. It has been integral to my end of the day routine. 30 minutes before sleep. **** - (): I mix in one scoop of pillar's triple magnesium powder into a glass of water to help guarantee my body spends as much time. In REM and deep sleep as possible. Pillar uses a high dose of glycinate magnesium. Activating the parasympathetic nervous system. And ensuring you fall asleep. And stay in that restorative sleep phase longer and longer. I've been tracking my HRV data each morning and it speaks volumes as to what pillar triple magnesium is doing for my recovery, higher HRV and more closely linked REM and deep sleep cycles on top of that. I feel better. More rested and recovered. If you'd like to try pillar today, head on over to pillar performance.shop. For us listeners, you can head to the feed.com/pillar and enter the code Craig for 15% off. That's Craig C R a I G for 15% off all first-time purchases. Would that behind us, let's jump right in to my conversation with Stefan. [00:03:22] - (): Stefan Barth: Stephane, welcome to the show. Hi, Greg. [00:03:25] - (): Craig Dalton: I'm excited to get you, to know you a little bit better and learn more about the book you wrote Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking, All You Need to Know. As we were talking about offline, I think it's a very interesting journey where many of us honor are on as cyclists from starting to do gravel events, starting to do longer gravel events, getting interested in bikepacking. **** - (): And I think as the sports evolve and the science of training evolves, it's super interesting to have a discussion with someone like you has thought a lot about. Ultra cycling, how to train for it. You've thought so much about it that you've written a book [00:04:03] - (): Stefan Barth: about it. Yeah. And glad that it got translated into English. **** - (): So more and more people are able to read it now. So I'm really looking forward to our chat. [00:04:15] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's so maybe that's a good point to let's, let's set the stage where you located and maybe follow that on by where did you grow up and how did you discover cycling in the [00:04:25] - (): Stefan Barth: first place? Okay. Yes, I'm from, from Germany and I'm located in Frankfurt here. **** - (): And yeah, so the book is about ultra cycling and bike packing. And that actually is where I started my cycling career. So it was like always. I was, I was driven to the, to the longer, longer events. And even when I started cycling as a teenager, it was always, okay, I want to go the, for the 100 kilometers to the town that is a little bit farther away. **** - (): Uh, most of my friends, they were not able to reach these towns even by the bus. And I was feeling very, very cool just to be able to go there by bike. And somehow this, this got my addiction to long distance cycling starting and yeah, it developed from that. So. I'm probably a young starter, so I think it was like with 14 years that I did my first free day ride and yeah, then it escalated quickly. [00:05:29] - (): Craig Dalton: And did you ever get drawn into kind of more traditional bike racing or was touring and long distance riding always your true love? Yeah, only [00:05:38] - (): Stefan Barth: for a short time. I had like a triathlon time. So I had a couple of years when I was more doing Ironman distance triathlon races. And that was the time when I got more professional in cycling as well, because I got more, yeah, I focused more on competitive cycling. **** - (): And during that time I did a couple of criterium races, but it never really catched me, so it's not, yeah, it was not to my taste to, to ride in a, in a bunch and to always, uh, have this fear of, of, of a crash and I'm not the, the guy made for speed, but rather for, for long stretches and to, to feel like the, the exhaustion creep into your legs. **** - (): But. Because of the duration and not because of the intensity. [00:06:29] - (): Craig Dalton: Got it. And where did your sort of professional life and, uh, and cycling start to intersect? [00:06:37] - (): Stefan Barth: A couple of years ago, it was like really the time when I, when I did those Ironman distance races that was like the beginning of putting more thought into how should I prepare my body, how should I prepare my mind what do I need to do with nutrition to get better on those races and yeah, that's probably where I started to think, okay, I could or this is my passion and I, Will, well, I want to do something in my professional career in this area in the long term, and soon afterwards I started to go part-time as a coach. **** - (): And I did like, in Germany it's called medical fitness coaching. So I studied in an area where you put a lot of weight into how to. coach athletes, but at the same time, how to do rehab and prehab. Yes. And this I did some years in part time and I had a full time job in the finance sector. **** - (): And when I published the book or the German edition of the book, ultra cycling and bike packing at that time. I had to make a decision because both careers would have been, one career would compromise the other one. And then I decided, or it was pretty easy for me actually to decide that I want to, to have a job that is my passion at the same time. **** - (): And so I decided to go all in, in coaching and writing about coaching. [00:08:02] - (): Craig Dalton: That's super interesting. And it makes sense given some of the very technical elements of the book. Around physiology that you lean into that we can talk a little bit about later. And it also makes sense that Ironman journey, which you and I share, I feel like as athletes, Ironman, it's one of those disciplines that highlights your deficiency of preparation very quickly, both physically nutrition and all kinds of things. **** - (): So I'm curious, you know, building off upon that, when did you start getting drawn into the more ultra distance cycling events? [00:08:40] - (): Stefan Barth: Soon, soon after my first Ironman actually. And at that time I did like big bike packing trips as like base my training for Ironmans as well. So I, I always try to have one vacation in summer. **** - (): And be like three or four weeks with my bicycle and ride as many miles as possible to build a strong or a strong foundation for the Ironman training. And during that time, I noticed that there's a crazy race in America called the Race Across America. I think it was some time about 2013, probably, something like that. **** - (): When I heard the first time about this race across America and that there's an Austrian guy called Christoph Strasser, who's not living too far away from, from here who is really good at it. And I was like, okay, he's crossing the whole continent in 10 days. This is crazy. And that's what I want to do. **** - (): And yeah, that's, that's how I. Got drawn into this long distance cycling. And I think that actually kicked off here in Europe, quite a, uh, fascination for this sport in general, especially in Germany and Austria. And there popped up a little more and more 24 hour cycling events. And that was the beginning for me. **** - (): Then I started to, uh, to participate at these 24 hour events and yeah, just looked how, how much can I do or how long can I go in 24 hours? And then this evolved into supported races. So I did. A couple of races, ultra cycling races where I had my own support crew which is quite expensive and at the same time, more and more bike pack, bike packing events popped up here in Europe, like transcontinental and more and more smaller ones. **** - (): And yeah, then I switched. [00:10:36] - (): Craig Dalton: You were talking about the transcontinental and some of these other. Ultra endurance road cycling events. How many days were those events taking? [00:10:46] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, I think that the first, when I, when I started the smaller ones were two or three day rides. And my longest one was, uh, nine, nine days, one hour. **** - (): So this is a bit more than three and a half thousand kilometers. It's [00:11:04] - (): Craig Dalton: always super interesting to me when you kind of transcend that single day racing format to multi day format, to just understand the mentality. And I know some of this is included in the book, but I think it's great background before we get there. **** - (): How do you handle kind of sleep along the way [00:11:22] - (): Stefan Barth: in those events? Yeah. It's, it differs between like ultra cycling is not ultra cycling, but it's important to make this this to distinguish between how long, or is it a multi day race or is it just 24 hours? Because I think in, in a 24 hours, uh, race, at least for me, there's no difficulty and uh, no sleep at all. **** - (): So if you're doing a 24 hour race. it's okay to have a stop time about 15 to 20 minutes only. And in a 48 hour race, it's still works for me without sleep, but just if you are practiced at it and everything beyond 48 hours is where it gets really tough and where I think you just have to sleep. probably can go with a napping strategy. **** - (): It's way more fun if you sleep. And that's something I think that some people underestimate the first time just because it's possible to push through doesn't mean it's fun. And to cut off the sleeping time is a sure way to get rid of the fun. That's for sure. [00:12:32] - (): Craig Dalton: As you were, as you were pursuing these new and different style races, were you able to find the resources you needed to understand how to train and prepare for them, or was it more trial and error along [00:12:45] - (): Stefan Barth: the way? **** - (): It was a lot trial and error and yes, there was, I think nowadays it's easier 10, 10 years later, there's a lot of more content on the internet and you have podcasts that go into different topics of ultra cycling and you have bloggers that post a lot but still there's not too much scientific background of it and when I started, I tried a lot shit. **** - (): By trial and error, and I also tried to find people obviously who have done it before, uh, try to talk with them, connect with them on social media, and at the events, use the time to, to have a couple of words with them. But it was a very. Uh, sometimes frustrating way because you have to invest a lot of time and you could not be sure that you, yeah, you get a return on your investment because yeah, then you, you tried something out, uh, for example, nutrition and I had like one huge mistake I made. **** - (): When I tried to copy the nutrition, nutrition strategy of Christoph Strasser from his race cross America. And he had like some, I don't know if it's sponsored product, but like some fluid nutrition and he was always telling, okay, he drinks like 200 milliliters of this. Uh, fluid per hour and that works fine for him and I was, okay, if it works for him, I should try it as well. **** - (): And I did it during a race and this was probably really one of my biggest mistakes because I totally underestimated that he's. probably something like 40 pounds heavier than me because I'm quite short and he puts in a lot of more power. And I totally underestimated how this power and this body weight factor correspond on your nutrition needs. **** - (): And I drank way too much and I consumed way too much energy which ended. in me at the roadside feeling very, very sick. And yeah, I had to do a complete restart. So I, I did finish the race, but after lying in the ditch for, for, I don't know, 30, 40 minutes I had to, to To build in a period drinking only water, don't eating anything, and just have a complete reset for my body and my mind, and then I could start again. **** - (): But yeah, that's, that's the mistakes that I made on the road. And that's what the book is about, that not everybody has to lie in this ditch and make the same mistakes all over again. [00:15:31] - (): Craig Dalton: You sort of alluded to this in your answer there, but if we go back to sort of what inspired you to write a book, I'm just curious how you would answer that question. [00:15:41] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, it's at the beginning I was not planning on writing a book. So probably this is the most important part because when I started it was more like, okay. I. Okay. I had a lot of conversations and I have tried a lot of things and I wanted to write it down for myself first. So it was, was not planned to, to make a book out of it, but rather a compendium for myself for future events. **** - (): And also when I thought about starting a coaching business, business, this was like a blueprint for my clients. And then I started to talk to other athletes about what I had until that moment, and they were really, really interested in this whole topic and to have a compendium for how to best prepare for ultra cycling events. **** - (): And yeah, then I started thinking, okay, maybe I should look up into more and more papers and maybe I should add some, some new chapters to it. And at that time I started with the interview. So the book incorporates a couple of. Of interviewees or a couple of interviews I did with other athletes and I started with those who are my friends, obviously. **** - (): And we just sat at a table for, I think with Mati Koester, I sat for almost eight hours and we talked the whole day about what are topics that he's interested in. And then I used these, yeah, guideline or these topics that we discussed that day to go to other athletes, also to some, yeah, some very renowned athletes, and just to ask them about their, their experiences to in these topics. **** - (): And somehow the interest was. Yeah. Overwhelming. Because when I started, I started with people I know and at the end I talked to Lael Wilcox and at the beginning I would not, would not have thought that I will be talking to someone like Lael Wilcox about her racing experiences and be able to incorporate them into, into my book. **** - (): So yeah, it was a process and it almost took four years from the beginning of. When I started to write down the first sentences until I finished the book in German, it's almost four years. So it was probably a way longer than normal, normally an author would take to write one book. [00:18:11] - (): Craig Dalton: Got it. Super interesting. **** - (): Obviously there's a lot of information about. Cycling training out there when you talk about maybe road racing or traditional mountain bike racing. And as we've mentioned, there hasn't been a lot documented about training for ultra cycling and bike packing. If there were a couple areas that you would highlight that are dramatically different... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29933613

Time Bicycles CEO Tony Karklins discusses the brand's journey and new gravel models 02/06/2024

Time Bicycles CEO Tony Karklins discusses the brand's journey and new gravel models In today's episode, we interview Tony Karklins, the owner of Time Bicycles. We discuss Tony's journey in the bike industry, from working in a bike shop to becoming a distributor and eventually acquiring Time Bicycles. Tony shares insights into the evolution of the bike industry, particularly the impact of carbon fiber technology. He also talks about the acquisition of Time Bicycles and the company's focus on manufacturing and innovation. The conversation then shifts to the new gravel models introduced by Time Bicycles for 2024 and the unique features that set them apart. Tony explains the importance of staying true to the Time brand while catering to the evolving needs of the market. He also discusses the future plans for Time Bicycles, including expanding manufacturing in the United States. Time Bicycles Episode Sponsor: (use code Craig for 15% off) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: About the Guest: Tony Karklins is the owner of Time Bicycles, a storied brand in the cycling industry. With over 40 years of experience in the bike industry, Tony has a deep understanding of the market and has played a significant role in the growth and development of various bike brands. He started his career in a neighborhood bike shop in the early 1980s and went on to become a bike shop owner. Tony then ventured into distribution and agent deals with European bike brands before joining Orbea as the managing director of the Americas. After his time with Orbea, Tony acquired the Guru Bicycle Factory and later acquired Time Bicycles from the Rossignol group. He is now focused on expanding Time Bicycles and bringing manufacturing back to the United States. Key Takeaways: Tony Karklins has over 40 years of experience in the bike industry and has played a significant role in the growth and development of various bike brands. Time Bicycles is a storied brand in the cycling industry, known for its high-performance carbon fiber bikes. The acquisition of Time Bicycles by Tony Karklins was driven by the desire to acquire the company's manufacturing capabilities and continue the legacy of the brand. Time Bicycles is focused on innovation and manufacturing, with a particular emphasis on resin transfer molding technology. The introduction of new gravel models for 2024 reflects Time Bicycles' commitment to meeting the evolving needs of the market while staying true to the brand's identity Transcript: [TRANSCRIPT] **** - (): time_bicycles _ jan 19, 2024 001_riverside [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Tony, welcome to the show. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Thank you very much. Thanks for inviting me. Uh, **** - (): Craig Dalton: as, as a fan of the sport and someone who's been around the sport from my bike shop days in college till now, I'm excited to talk about Time Bicycles. It's such a storied brand in the industry. And having spoken to you a little bit offline, your journey to get there, I think is going to be fascinating for the listener to learn about. **** - (): Craig Dalton: And ultimately we want to talk about the new gravel models you've got for 2024. Sounds great. Where do you want to start? Let's start off just by a little bit of your background. Where are you located and how'd you get into the sport of cycling and what led to you working in the bike industry? All **** - (): Tony Karklins: right. **** - (): Tony Karklins: I, uh, I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. You know, Arkansas is the new hotbed of cycling globally now. So, uh, I've been in the bike industry here for about 40 years. I started to work in the neighborhood bike shop in the early eighties. Became a bike shop owner in the mid 80s, and I ran 2 retail stores here until 99, 2000. [00:01:00] - (): Tony Karklins: It's almost made it 20 years in bike retail here, and I decided that I wanted to stay in the bike industry, but I was kind of done with retail. I'd taken my turn there, and so I started traveling to the European trade shows. Looking for bike brands that were established in Europe that maybe needed help in the United States. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Um, and did a few small distribution and agent deals with some, you know, really neat, small artists and Italian brands and kind of 1 deal led to the next. And then, uh, late 99 or early 2000. I was introduced to this brand that I had never heard of. And no 1 in America had at that time was called. And it was a tiny little, uh, BASC company that was moving out of kind of mass production bikes, and they wanted to get into high performance, and they wanted to get their brand on the Tour de France, and they wanted to see if they could produce, you know, a leading global brand, and started as a distributor for them for a couple of years. [00:02:00] - (): Tony Karklins: It went really well, uh, and then we built it into a joint venture, and I ran that joint venture as the managing director of the Americas until 2014. So, uh, yeah. And we built Orbea in that time to, you know, leading European brand selling in the United States and a true global player. And it was a really interesting time in the bike industry because I started in it right before the carbon fiber boom happened. **** - (): Tony Karklins: When I went to work for Orbea, premium bikes were made out of really lightweight steel. Uh, or, uh, even and we advance in a really lightweight aluminum, like Columbus Starship and some of the really cool 2 pound aluminum frames and they were light and they were fast, but they wrote like crap because they were so stiff. [00:03:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Right? Yeah, I mean, carbon fiber comes into the forks and all of a sudden it made the aluminum bikes ride a lot better. And so, uh, watch, watch carbon fiber hit the bike industry, and it really took the industry by storm in around 2003, 2004. There was this moment where all the best bikes in the Tour de France were aluminum or titanium. **** - (): Tony Karklins: And within 12 months, it all went carbon fiber. And really changed the bike industry a lot because the bike industry and the bike brands, all this history brands that you know of, they were born as metal shops, right? They can cut and weld and bend, but when carbon hit, everybody was like. What is this stuff? **** - (): Tony Karklins: Where do I get it and how do I do it fast? And so I lived in this moment where I saw all that bike production all through the United States and Europe come down in the premium categories and get shipped to Asia because they could make carbon fiber. Yeah. **** - (): Craig Dalton: I was going to ask you from an Orbea perspective, like how did they solve that problem? **** - (): Craig Dalton: They knew they had to get into carbon fiber, the same **** - (): Tony Karklins: thing at the same time. You know, Orbea was Orbea is they take fast, smart decisions quick. So we were right there at the very start of carbon fiber. I remember there was this moment in America where we had a warehouse full of carbon fiber before it was really. [00:04:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Hot, like a couple of months before it was hot and then Cannondale went into bankruptcy and then something happened at light speed, but spike the cost of titanium raw material. And then like a month of fearing. I would never be able to sell this inventory for a bicycling magazine being sold out for 2 years. **** - (): Tony Karklins: That was some of the magic that happened during that time. A lot of, uh, when carbon hit, it just, it hit hard and it changed the industry and it changed where and how bikes were made. Um, and it was a, it was a boom moment for us at Orbea, for sure. We, we, we, we went through the roof, you know, because we were there. **** - (): Tony Karklins: One of the very first real product and real availability. Yeah. So I had a great run with, with Orbea. Um, they acquired the rest of the company from us in 2014. And then I decided that, um, I wanted to get into manufacturing because I noticed at that moment in 2014, 15 and 16, that everybody was sort of cooking in the same kitchen, you know? [00:05:00] - (): Tony Karklins: It was, everything started to look alike again, and there was just different colors and graphics and marketing campaigns. So I said, okay, if I'm gonna stay in the bike industry, I wanna get into manufacturing. **** - (): Craig Dalton: That seems like a big leap, right? So you a big **** - (): Tony Karklins: leap. But you know, I, I, I, I'd been in the industry a long time, been in a lot of the factories. **** - (): Tony Karklins: I mean, I saw it, you know? Yeah. I'm not an engineer. Um, now I almost am. But um, at that point, I just, I knew that, I knew that there was very little chance of success if you just went to Asia and did the same thing again. Yeah, I've seen too many people try to start their own brand, um, based on just desire of having a brand and no real tech or no real, you know, capabilities and, and they all kind of petered out the same way. **** - (): Craig Dalton: And did you see the opportunity being, Hey, if I stand up a manufacturing facility, I've got enough connection in the industry that some brand may want to come to me for manufacturing. I'm thinking back to like. Frank the welder shop and you'd have, **** - (): Tony Karklins: you know, interested in OEM business because you know, you, you do all the work and you get none of the room. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Yeah. [00:06:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Can't explain to anybody what you do for a living because you can't point to anything. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Yeah. I was more interested in. Okay. I think the way that this can really work is if you take it from raw material all the way through to the sand. Right. Okay. Do you want all of that? Because, you know, when you have a bike made in Asia, you have it made in a carbon fiber factory and then they send it to a paint factory and then they send it to an assembly factory and then they put it into a box and they ship it into the United States. **** - (): Tony Karklins: So you pay duties and freight and tariff and all that stuff. And then it's sold to a distributor and then it's sold to a retailer and then it's sold to the consumer. And, you know, you have this, You know, no one has any real piece of the pie, you know, the only people making the money here are the shipping companies and the government, you know, let's break that. [00:07:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Let's see if we can take it from raw material all the way, you know, through selling it to a dealer. Okay. And so, uh, after my time with Orbea, I went to work with a group in California that was attempting to do this, uh, with golf technology, a lot of golf production in the San Diego area. And I learned, you know, during that year that. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Very difficult to do manufacturing in Southern California. It was, it was a great, great learning moment for it. Um, and so did not work there, but after I departed, I was able to acquire the Guru Bicycle Factory. In Montreal. Gotcha. Okay. We located in Arkansas, got some government grants and brought in some investors for this. **** - (): Tony Karklins: And we, uh, the project there, we created this company called HIE Villa, which was going to be, you know, mass production of prepreg carbon fiber bicycles, you know, made the same way that the best bike brands were making them in Asia, but making them here. **** - (): Craig Dalton: And when you, did you not acquire the Guru brand, you just acquired the means of manufacturing at that point? **** - (): Craig Dalton: I just acquired the manufacturing assets. Yeah. And was that just, uh, tooling, machinery, et cetera, or were you getting [00:08:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Messiness, cutting tables, it was everything you needed to do. Gotcha. I mean, everything, you know, and so it gave us a great, it was a great start. Uh, it was a beautiful project. We launched, you know, six Cycleworks brand, and that hit hard. **** - (): Tony Karklins: You know, it resonated just perfectly at that moment because it truly made an America product. Um, we, we did it right. We did it well, um, beautiful project and that company got acquired by the Walton family. In one of their groups, uh, that owns, uh, the Rafa **** - (): Craig Dalton: cycling brand and then was that acquiring the brand and the manufacturing **** - (): Tony Karklins: facility? **** - (): Tony Karklins: They took it all and they did that a little rock and they put it in Northwest Arkansas. And now it's part of the, uh, the cycling empire that they're building. Sure. And so I stayed here in Little Rock after that and looking for my next opportunity. And during the early stages of the pandemic, I learned that the Rossignol group who had recently acquired time was looking for a new owner for it. [00:09:00] - (): Tony Karklins: And I'm like, wow, I really want that because I want, I want their factory. Cause I knew that they had the oldest and the largest scale carbon fiber bike **** - (): Craig Dalton: factory in Europe. Can we, can we pause for a second, Tony, and just explain the history very briefly of the time brand? Cause it's not lost on me, like how important that had been over the last 30 years, but I'd just love to hear your words and understanding of like how time fit into the bike industry. [00:10:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Yeah. So time, uh, was established in France in 1987 and Roland Catan was the founder of it. And Roland Catan married a woman whose father was the inventor of the modern ski bike. And he owned a company called Look. Yep. Sure. And Look had just introduced a bicycle pedal that was clipless. And Roland was around this and he was kind of part of the company. **** - (): Tony Karklins: And I guess at some point there was some family dispute that happened, because Roland believed that a clip in bicycle pedal needed to have some kind of rotation. Because if you were locked into one place, You would have ankle, knee, some kind of problems. And so, I guess the father in law didn't like that. **** - (): Tony Karklins: And Roland left look, went across the street and opened time. Amazing. With a clipless pedal that had rotation. **** - (): Craig Dalton: This is filling in so many gaps for me. As I mentioned offline, I had a friend who was like a die hard time pedal fan. And like the ski binding technology, I'm now all visualizing it in my head. [00:11:00] - (): Tony Karklins: And so I don't know how, I don't know how Roland's wife made this all work with the family. They split and they made it together. Um, and you know, Time, you know, was a very fast moving brand globally the second he did it. It was styled perfectly. Everybody believed in the rotation. They were off to the races. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Um, then somewhere in the late eighties to maybe 92, 93, Roland became friends with some of the people that had started TVT carbon fiber and TVT was, you know, uh, French company. That had done some of the very first, you know, carbon tube, aluminum lug bikes, they were briefly in the tour, but the technology wasn't really stable enough yet to really have true tour riders on it. **** - (): Tony Karklins: But you, I think you saw maybe some of the Greg Lamont years, he might be on a special carbon fiber bike with some sponsors name on it. That was a TVT thing. So the time people got involved with him. Um, and they opened up a project to make a carbon fiber fork because they saw the problem in the bike industry of all these lightweight aluminum bikes using steel forks, or sometimes even aluminum forks, which were super jarring. [00:12:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Yeah. And they believed that they could, they could make a better riding aluminum bike by doing a carbon fork. So Mario Cipollini, Marco Pantani, anybody of who's who in that, you know, in that era, whatever bike brand they were riding, it had a Time fork on it, and from what I've been told, uh, they were making about 100, 000 carbon fiber forks here. [00:13:00] - (): Tony Karklins: I mean, they, they were, they were the player there. Then, of course, Look got into the fork business as well. Those 2 really kind of hit it, you know. So time then moved into bicycle manufacturing in the late 90s. They want to do a full carbon fiber bike. Um, and then in the early 2000s, they signed with this little team called Quickstep and we had writers like Tom Boonen and Paolo Bettini, uh, you know, and they won the Olympics and they won the world championships and they won Paris Roubaix and they were just, they were killing it in 2004, five and six, I mean, they were, they were the, you know, pinnacle of technology really being made in Europe when everybody else had just left for China, they were killing it. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Um, and then. I guess from what I've been told, the Pro Tour got really expensive when the big American brands came in. You know, when you saw Specialized come in and take over Quickstep, and Cannondale was in there first, I think, Giant got in there, uh, Trek obviously got in there, and so Time became a brand that, you know, truly couldn't afford the Tour de France anymore. **** - (): Tony Karklins: And so, uh, they Kept developing products, they believed in their resin transfer molding technology. They believe in European manufacturing, but, you know, they started to kind of hit harder times, maybe in 2012, 13, 14, and then Roland passed away on a bike ride. In 2000, late 2015, early 2016. Oh, man. [00:14:00] - (): Craig Dalton: And did they ever, did they ever diversify into mountain bike products or did they always stay focused on the road sport? **** - (): Craig Dalton: No, **** - (): Tony Karklins: there's, you know, we, we have all the historical stuff and, you know, they did a couple little things and they made their own wheels for one model, but they didn't really ever get in the wheel business. I've got a few time carbon fiber handlebars. I don't believe that a real mountain bike frame was ever truly produced by them, but he was pretty true to the cause. **** - (): Tony Karklins: I mean, he, he was a road cyclist. He was a drop bar cyclist. He, um, he, he, he protected his brand really well. Yeah. Yeah. He, he didn't, he didn't go with, you know, the, the, the trend of the week, like some of the bike companies do. **** - (): Craig Dalton: And then did the Rossignol group, uh, purchase it after his passing **** - (): Tony Karklins: then? They purchased it, you know, so he passed away. [00:15:00] - (): Tony Karklins: Company was in shambles because he was the race car driver of the company. Right. Yeah. And, and so big problems there, but Rossignol stepped in. Um, they. They did an acquisition of everything, they reinvested in the company, um, they built out both the France factory and the sub factory that's in Slovakia. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Um, and they were really building it for big growth. And I, I believe their plan was to, to put, um, they, they bought a few other bike brands as well and to inject those brands into their ski dealerships for summer business in Europe. I think it was their master plan. **** - (): Craig Dalton: The plan that many a bike shop owner, many a bike brand has theorized over the years will work perfectly. **** - (): Tony Karklins: It makes sense. But at the end of the day, you know, a consumer purchasing a 10, 000 bike doesn't want to buy from the ski shop. Yeah. I know. Yeah, nothing against the ski shops, but he wants, he wants to buy it from a passionate, you know, cycling store. So that didn't work so well. And then the pandemic hit, and when the pandemic hit, that's when we were told, Hey, good time. **** - (): Tony Karklins: Rosalind was looking for a new owner from time. And I [00:16:00] - (): Craig Dalton: interrupted you right when you were saying what really attracted you to the opportunity was the fact that there was a factory involved. **** - (): Tony Karklins: And that's how we got it... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29819163

Call of a Lifetime Season 2 with director Shannon Vandivier 01/30/2024

Call of a Lifetime Season 2 with director Shannon Vandivier In this episode, we sit down with cinematographer and director Shannon Vandivier to discuss his work on the Life Time Grand Prix series "Call of a Life Time." Shannon shares his journey into the world of filmmaking and storytelling, influenced by his father's career as a photojournalist. He explains how he approaches the editing process as a second director and the importance of having a clear vision for the story. Shannon also delves into the challenges of filming off-road racing events and the strategies his team employs to capture the essence of each race. He highlights the importance of building trust with the athletes and creating a connection that allows for vulnerability and authentic storytelling. Throughout the conversation, Shannon emphasizes the goal of the series: to showcase the dedication and inspiring stories of off-road athletes and to foster a sense of fandom within the community. Episode supported by Join About the Guest(s): Shannon Vandivier is a cinematographer, director, and camera operator based in Austin, Texas. With a passion for storytelling and a background in photography, Shannon has honed his skills in capturing powerful imagery and using it to tell compelling stories. He started his own company in 2013 and has since worked with notable clients such as Netflix, BBC, and PBS. Shannon's work can be seen in various projects, including the Lifetime Grand Prix series "Call of a Lifetime." Key Takeaways: Shannon Vandivier's passion for storytelling and capturing powerful imagery stems from his father's career as a photojournalist. The editing process in filmmaking is akin to being a second director, and it requires a clear vision for the story. Filming off-road racing events presents unique challenges, and Shannon's team employs various strategies to capture the essence of each race. Building trust with the athletes is crucial for creating authentic and vulnerable storytelling. The goal of the Lifetime Grand Prix series "Call of a Lifetime" is to showcase the dedication and inspiring stories of off-road athletes and foster a sense of fandom within the community. Notable Quotes: "The power of editing comes with a clear vision. You don't know how your story is changing unless you know what your story is." - Shannon Vandivier "The bike has always been the vehicle to fun. And as I've matured through life, I've continued to stay on the bike." - Shannon Vandivier "The reality is, editing is second directing. The power of editing comes with a clear vision." - Shannon Vandivier Resources: Shannon Vandivier's website: Lifetime Grand Prix series "Call of a Lifetime" on YouTube: Automated transcription, please excuse the errors: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Welcome to the show. How you doing, man? [00:00:04] - (): Shannon Vandivier: Man, I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be with you. [00:00:07] - (): Craig Dalton (host): I'm excited to have this conversation. It's probably a, an outlier. If I think back to the catalogs of conversations I have, it's usually athletes, event organizers, and event producers. So you're my first cinematographer, director, camera guy. **** - (): Super excited to have this conversation. Cause I think a lot of us have seen your work in Certainly Lifetime, uh, Call of a Lifetime Season 1, which followed the Lifetime Grand Prix. But after looking at your website, I think there's probably a bunch of other things that we've probably seen of you over [00:00:41] - (): Shannon Vandivier: the years. **** - (): Thank you. Well, maybe, maybe not. It depends. Uh, it's a big world out there. There's a lot of content, but I certainly am honored, you know, um, to be your first. Uh, camera nerd and a storyteller on your podcast. So for those of you listening who are hoping to learn anything about power numbers or Watts or course design, uh, you will be disappointed. **** - (): Uh, but if you want to learn about storytelling and how incredibly, um, challenging it has been, and at the same time, rewarding, um, to spend a year at this point, two years with all the top off road athletes, um, in North America and now also internationally. You're in the right spot and I will, I will tell all right now. **** - (): I'm [00:01:26] - (): Craig Dalton (host): excited to get into some of those challenges. Shannon, just to set the stage, where, where are you located and what's your relationship been to the bike? [00:01:36] - (): Shannon Vandivier: Um, let's see here. Most I'm 36 years old, born in 87 and, um, I was born here in Austin, Texas. I'm currently in Austin, Texas. Um, it's a great base camp and we have good airport hub. **** - (): So I've never found an excuse to leave other than maybe my draw to the mountains. Um, and so, you know, like most nineties kids, like the bike was the vector to get around the neighborhood, and it's always been about. Um, for me, the bike has always just been the vehicle to fun. And as I've kind of matured through life, I've continued to kind of stay on the bike. **** - (): Um, mountain biking to me, um, has become my favorite way to process. Even before this podcast, I went and spent an hour on the bike, just getting into a bit of a flow state and just getting my mind channeled in the right way. I do a lot of my riding, um, believe it or not. Use voice memos for that. But a lot of my thinking and processing on the bike, um, as it specifically rates, relates to call of a lifetime. **** - (): But yeah, I think the bike is certainly a relevant character in my life. Um, and definitely was the reason why I was even interested in, um. Dipping my toe, which, which turned into diving off into the deep end, um, of creating content and storytelling in this space. [00:03:01] - (): Craig Dalton (host): How did you find your way to a camera in the first place? [00:03:04] - (): Shannon Vandivier: Ah, now that's a good question. So my dad was a photojournalist, and I grew up in a house that was covered in, um, film negative slides. And slideshow reels, and the smell of rolled film in the freezer as you were like sifting through to go find your toaster strudels or whatever. Um, and so like, I think I was five when my dad stuck his first hand me down in my hands. **** - (): He would like sit me on the curb and as cars drove by, you know, I would earn new rolls of film if I got like cars in focus as I panned with him going by. I remember that specifically as a memory. And yeah, just, you know, my dad is, I've always been against flying, uh, airline travel. We always road tripped everywhere and we were always going somewhere. **** - (): So I spent a lot of time traveling the world. Um, and controversially, I think I was like 12, 13 years old, you know, when my dad was taking me on shoots with him that maybe were like considered conflict zones, like still don't know, but like in, um, in a really unique way, I had a father who just really was passionate about using a lens to tell stories. **** - (): He was a still photographer and, um, from a young age, he was just passionate about teaching me the power of the lens and the power of creating imagery and using that imagery to capture a moment in time that tells an important story. And as a journalist, um, you know, he saw himself as a responsible party and keeping politicians accountable and, um, corporations accountable. **** - (): And he's. He still, to this day, um, heartbreakingly, probably, sees journalism as the means at which we keep society on track, um, and the truth in, in the public square. And so I've always had a value for storytelling in that context. And um, And yeah, and through, through certain life circumstances, I think I've particularly given an empathetic, um, perspective on life. **** - (): Um, and you know, I, we had a tragedy in my family. I, we lost my youngest brother when I was nine and. Um, you know, there were some hard years there, but where, where it landed me was, um, man, life is special, and there are some really important stories to be told, and it's really important, um, and I love the idea, I should say this, I love the idea of a camera, and, um, and a lens being the vector to creating an introspective revelation in somebody, right? **** - (): And it's this really unique thing That camera and storytelling and filmmaking can do, right? It can compress time in a way where we feel like we can learn a life's worth of lessons from somebody else in 90 minutes or 30 minutes. Um, and I, and sometimes that feels like magic to me. Um, of course we don't have the scar tissue of experience to ingrain those life lessons and anchor into our life, but at the same time, they can, they can be seeds. **** - (): That will one day maybe blossom. And so, um, I saw it through my father growing up. I saw how his imagery impacted people. And, you know, I, I always, I always respected that. And I'm really proud that I get to follow. In a sense, my dad never did any filmmaking, but I get to follow in his footsteps. And, um, and so that's kind of what led to me to where I am now. **** - (): I started my company back in 2000 and 13 and started Get to play with real clients in 2016, um, I've been, uh, won some awards and been featured on, you know, yeah, we've got, you can go check out. It's weird talking about yourself, right? And so there's a lot of things we've done out there and I've gotten to work for Netflix and BBC and PBS and, you know, all the big names out there. **** - (): I'm honored to continue to work with them. And, um, I, I just, it's not about the, who I'm working for. It's about the, what I'm creating. And so that's, that's my guiding beacon. That's what pushes me forward is the, what I'm creating. [00:07:15] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Amazing. Thanks for all that insight into your backstory. I'm curious, you know, your father obviously instilled a love of still photography and while, you know, someone picking up a phone or a camera today. **** - (): Video is the obvious medium. Was there a point in your. Childhood, going into college, what have you, that you decided photography is great, but video will allow me to express some of the storytelling elements that I'm so passionate about? [00:07:45] - (): Shannon Vandivier: Yeah, it's a great question because no one asks that question. You know, um, I was frustrated with still photography. **** - (): You know, it's what I always had in front of me. And it's, I always, like, my dad used to have this drill with me where he would hand me magazines. This is before the computer, right? So, like, he would hand me magazines, a pair of stickers, and some tape. And I had, I have still to this day, I probably dig them up, I have these spiral binders. **** - (): And he told me, son, you need to train your mind's eye. And he would make me go cut out. Pictures from magazines, stacks of magazines that, um, that I liked to train what, what I liked. And I always remember just, like, flipping through these magazines and cutting these pictures out and pasting them in my, my spiral notebook and training my mind's eye. **** - (): And I always just, like, remember feeling like, man, like, I don't fully understand this image. Like, it's a cruel image. But, like, I want to know everything that happened. Like, it could be a Formula one car, you know, like on two wheels about to flip over. And I'm like, did it flip over? And I just remember thinking and always feeling this wall with still photography. **** - (): Now I'm still a still photographer. I love still photography. It's a wonderful way to capture a moment, but in terms of the completeness of a story, in terms of how technology has advanced, there's no question that filmmaking and story is the ultimate form of storytelling. It's the most. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's a good question. **** - (): Yeah. Recall anybody asked me that question before. [00:09:25] - (): Craig Dalton (host): So thinking about the amount of film that I've caught over, you know, over my life, my big problem has been the editing of it and I don't have any skills, Shannon. I'm going to be totally transparent with you on that, but I am curious about like the editing part, because, you know, you're capturing a lot of footage, regardless of what you're doing. **** - (): But the editing is really key to making the storyline come through that you're trying to capture or that did happen out there. I'm curious. So you, you know, obviously you started to build the, the technical skills to shoot with your camera. What was that process like to become an editor that could get that end product that really conveyed? **** - (): The stories either yourself or your clients were looking for. [00:10:10] - (): Shannon Vandivier: Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. The reality is, is editing is second directing, you know, um, the power of editing comes with a clear vision. Reality is you don't know how your story is changing unless you know what your story is. And so, for me and my process, and like you, I don't have a ton of skill sets in life, but one of the things that is so hard for me to do is to walk into the field with a camera and not have a plan. **** - (): If I don't know the story I'm going into the field to tell, then I don't know how it's changing in front of me. And if I don't know how it's changing in front of me, I don't know where to point the camera. But if I've defined my story and my characters, um, then As it's changing, as things are falling apart, is usually how you can define changing and filmmaking in the moment. **** - (): Um, you can adapt and I think, you know, editing is like baking. If you don't have the right ingredients, you're not going to have a tasty product. You have to do it in the right order and you have to give respect to the ingredients and you have to have good quality ingredients. And so to say that, um, there's any one piece of, of creating a product, a film that is more important than the others. **** - (): It's, it's just like taking a screw out of, um, a mechanical mechanism, like everything will fall apart and nothing will work if you don't have sometimes even the smallest thing. And so, um, our cinematographers, you know, we had up to 14 people in the field this year. We had helicopters, side by sides, motorcycles, um, multiple editors in the field. **** - (): I mean, what we accomplished this year and the sheer manpower that I had to. bring together, unify and disseminate and share a vision with, um, and follow through with that vision on, um, that in itself became the greatest, um, challenge, but it also became the greatest reward. And why I believe when people see season two of Call of a Lifetime, they're going to see, well, if they watch season one, they're going to see a big improvement. **** - (): They're going to see improvement in a few ways. And I'd love to jump into that, but. To be direct to your question, um, that editing process is a dance and I have a principal editor, his name is Blake Campbell. He's been working with me for eight years. I mean, his sole income comes from me and has for many, many years. **** - (): And he is one of my key relationships that I carry within my company because, um, again, I call the editor the second director. I script ahead of time. I take a script after we've shot it, and our AEs will process everything we shot, which is a lot. I mean, I don't want to underestimate under, um, overstate this, but it's a lot of content around a hundred terabytes of footage we curated this season. **** - (): Um, and I take that pre script and I marry it to what the theoretical versus the actual, what we went in to shoot versus what we actually shot. And I reshape a script and I put that in front of my editor. And then somehow he always makes it better. Better than what I envisioned, better than what I direct in the field. **** - (): I mean, the sound design, the secret sauce of, you know, um, uh, trick editing and creating a visceral experience. And, you know, a lot of our style and a lot of the things that I think people will come to see. to know as our fingerprints as a company. Um, a lot of that has to do just with the consistency and you know, the, the, the experience that we have or that my editor has and spending time with me through the years and knowing, you know, kind of what I like. **** - (): And when I shoot something, I shot it specifically to be edited a certain way. And now I don't even have to communicate that to them. So I can't take credit for it. I am a editor on this series, but I am by no means the principal editor. I'm just the guy that comes in and messes his timelines up, and sometimes it's easier to just jump in there and tear up a timeline than it is to actually just write it out on paper and have someone else go in there and try to read your brain. **** - (): So read about it [00:14:32] - (): Craig Dalton (host): to give the listener a little context for those of them who have not seen call of a lifetime series. One it's available freely on YouTube by the time this is broadcast season two will be available as well. What Shannon's been describing is not just a simple. Race storyline of a singular race, which may be a lot easier to tell. **** - (): We're talking about the entirety of the lifetime Grand Prix season. So whether you're talking about season one or season two, I'm just Shannon, Shannon curious, you've got a bunch of athletes in the lifetime Grand Prix, both on the male and female side, you've got. You know, the, the favorites, you've got the dark horses, but there's plenty of them to choose from. **** - (): How did you or, and or working with the lifetime team decide who to key in on? And you talked about having an idea of what that story arc might look like. How did you approach it at the beginning of the season and how did it evolve? And what were some of those monkey wrenches thrown into the plans? [00:15:36] - (): Shannon Vandivier: Yeah. **** - (): Great question. Um, yeah, golly, you're gonna make me think. Um, okay. So to, to fully answer that question, season one, I had no idea what I was doing. I mean, It was the classic scenario where Lifetime saw my accolades and experience as a film director, knew that I could execute, signed a contract with me to go in based on a concept that I presented, which was modeled after Drive to Survive, the Formula One series. **** - (): Which really, I just saw as such a fascinating thing, like, blew my mind. I knew nothing about Formula One. I pressed episode one of that thing on Netflix when it first came out, and it instantly made me a fan of Formula One. And as a director, as a storyteller, I was, I had to dissect that. I was like, whoa, how did they brainwash me so quick? **** - (): And I realized that the way they, what they did, and the model that they set forth, which was ingenious, was, we're human beings. We first and foremost relate to other human beings. So before I needed to understand the formula of model, you know, the racing and the point structure and the courses and which events are more important than other events and the key players first, I had to fall in love with character. **** - (): I had to pick who my favorites were and they did such a good job doing that and pulling you into these characters, helping you understand what they're like, you know, what's at stake for them, what their goals are, what they have questions they're asking, you know, um, and that instantly grabbed me. And so I thought that's cool. **** - (): And then I thought bike racing is confusing and, oh my gosh, the Grand Prix, which is what the series is. Built around is an easy to follow series, limited races, invite only, cash prize, easy to follow point structure. Sweet. We have all the right ingredients and most importantly, good characters. Um, and so athletes are always good characters because athletes... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29723288

UCI Gravel World Series with Erwin Vervecken 01/23/2024

UCI Gravel World Series with Erwin Vervecken Erwin Verveken, former professional cyclocross rider and organizer of the UCI World Gravel Championships, discusses the history and growth of the UCI Gravel Series. He explains how the series was created to provide a more diverse and competitive experience for riders, and how it has quickly gained popularity and attracted top riders from around the world. Erwin also shares insights into the qualification process, the different types of gravel courses, and the future of gravel racing. Episode sponsor: (TheGravelRide for 15% off) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Key Takeaways: The UCI Gravel Series was created to provide a more diverse and competitive experience for riders, with a variety of courses and race formats. The series has quickly grown in popularity, attracting top riders from around the world and expanding to include more events each year. Gravel racing is a unique blend of road racing and off-road riding, with courses that can vary in technicality and terrain. The UCI Gravel World Championships allows both elite riders and amateurs to compete together, creating a unique and inclusive racing experience. The series is constantly evolving, with new events being added each year and plans to expand to more countries in the future. [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Erwin, welcome to the show. [00:00:02] - (): Erwin Verveken: Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure of being here. [00:00:06] - (): Craig Dalton (host): I'm excited to talk to you and learn more about the UCI World Gravel Championships and a little bit of the history there. But as always, I'd just love to start out with learning a little bit about you. I know you've got a, a strong history in the sport of cycling. So just a quick overview of how you got involved in the sport. **** - (): And then let's talk about how you got involved in. Kind of the event organizing side of the sport with UCI. [00:00:29] - (): Erwin Verveken: Yeah. So I, I've been a pro rather mainly in cyclocross, uh, from 1995 till 2010. So a 16 year career in cyclocross, uh, uh, from the age of 22 to 38. And then when I retired from cycling in 2010, I started to work as a cyclocross and also a bit of model by coordinator at a lot. So lots of is a Belgian sports marketing company. **** - (): Um, uh, at that time we were, I wouldn't say small, but yeah, it's, it's, it's grown a lot in, in the last, uh, 15 years. Um, and so initially I was only doing. Cyclocross, uh, in winter and mountain bike in summer. And then gradually, uh, I got other projects and in 2011, we started to talk to the, to the UCI to, uh, well, to reform a bit, the, the masters road world championships. **** - (): So, um, yeah, everybody knows Ironman, Ironman, uh, and triathlon. You have to. Qualify somewhere in an arm and worldwide, uh, to get your ticket for the World Championships and, uh, well, the, the, the road Masters World Championships, uh, at the UCI, they were always organized in the same city in, in the same period for, for 20 years in Austria, uh, and there were some complaints of course, because the, the, yeah, always the same course, uh, the same type of riders, um, yeah, World Championships should move, uh, uh, you know, One day it should be a flat and fast race and then a race for climbers or for classical riders. **** - (): So we came with a proposal to reform it like in Ironman with the qualifier series, uh, which, which started in 2011 with seven qualifier events and then a world championships. And well, it moved from seven the next year to 20. And yeah, now for next year, it's. events. It's the biggest series we've ever had. **** - (): 2024. I mean, [00:02:26] - (): Craig Dalton (host): curious, Erwin, when, when you expanded the qualification, the number of qualification races, did you end up expanding the number of athletes that could actually compete in the world championships for the masters? [00:02:38] - (): Erwin Verveken: Yeah. Uh, so it has always been 25 percent per age group will qualify for the world championships. And so the results are major made up per age group. Um, and, and, uh, yeah. So from that, uh, point, uh, Uh, yeah. First year I think we had 700 drivers at the world championships. Uh, and then it grew to over a thousand thousands, 500, 2000. **** - (): And in the last few years, we are in between two and a half and 3000, which is still okay. Uh, one year we decided to lower the percentage of qualified rider from 25 to 20 because of safety. Uh, we, we got 3000 riders at the start of, uh. Of one single event on a day, uh, so the Grand Fonda World Championships, but then it was, uh, yeah, 2020, the COVID year, so, and, and, and afterwards, uh, yeah, it took some time for riders to start traveling again. **** - (): So we, we went back to 25%. And in that idea in 2019 at the end of the season in a debriefing with UCI, we proposed also to make up a similar series of gravel events. Gravel is big in the States. I think the first real gravel events date from 2005, 2006 or so. Um, and they, yeah, we saw in Europe and other continents, but mainly Europe, um, gravel has always been Uh, a bit more recreational, um, never competitive. **** - (): Um, and it's only, let's say the last five years that there's really competitive parallel events. Um, so, so yeah, and at the end of 2019, we proposed. A similar setup with the qualifier series, uh, leading up to a yearly world championships. Uh, which then, well, got postponed in 2020, 2021 because of COVID. Uh, so the, the, the first season was 2022 with 11 qualifier events. **** - (): Uh, and this year already 18. And next year 25. So yeah, it's growing very fast and especially the number of participants is growing very very fast. So um And and the big difference is in gravel in the gravel world cheers and also the gravel world championships also elite riders can participate. So Where the, the ground from the world series is mainly for masters and amateurs. **** - (): Uh, the gravel world series and the gravel world championships is, is for everybody. Uh, but still in the same concept where. In front there is a real battle amongst the best elite riders but in the back you as a recreational rider, you can also participate and if you're really fit and Keen and and also for the masters at a later age You can still qualify for the world championships and also right there together with well this year what for not more each? **** - (): Following they were all at the start So yeah, I can imagine if you if you start in the back end and you're just five minutes behind these riders Uh, at the start, uh, that it's an amazing feeling to, to be in the same race with all those top stars. [00:05:47] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, that's I remember speaking to Bruce from the Highland Gravel Classic in Arkansas, who's the the one US gravel race that's part of the UCI series this year and the coming year in 2024. And I remember walking away from that conversation with that same feeling that Despite what some people in the United States may think about, you know, high performance gravel racing, and as it may detour from their vision of a community style gravel race as people who are around the sport and like other aspects of the sport, just being able to line up at a, at a UCI event with the names you just mentioned would be a thrill of a lifetime. [00:06:27] - (): Erwin Verveken: Yeah. I think so. Um, of course, gravel in the States, uh, is, is, is much older and has much more tradition and, uh, your biggest events are, are still bigger than, than the UCI events. Uh, our biggest event this year was 1700 and probably next year we will go over 2000, but yeah, if you speak about the real classics, uh, unbound and, and, and, and, well, you have several of them. **** - (): They are more than double than our biggest race at the moment, but I think we still have potential to grow. Um, I see that, um, what, what really excites me is that after all these events and especially after the world championships, you all, you hear all these top stars telling, Hey, this was fun, huh? Wout van Aert had big trouble, a flat tire, a crash at the world championships, but he still continued because he liked it so much. **** - (): And he yeah. Enjoyed. Riding a gravel race. So yeah, he is, by the way, my neighbor because he's living in the same city as me even. Well, if you count in miles like you do in the States, it's a bit more than a mile from where I live. And he called me and told, Hey, I want to do a UCI gravel race because I want to do the world championships this year. **** - (): So all of a sudden he was there at the Belgian qualifier event in August and then six weeks later at the world championships and he really enjoyed it. So And that's the good thing. They are pure ambassadors, not only for cycling sports in general, but also for gravel because, uh, they have a lot of fun. **** - (): Um, Valverde was there, Moritz, he said, well, it's my first gravel race I ever did, world championships. I always liked. Going off road, uh, mountain bike, but in gravel there's much more speed, it's much more fun. And, and yeah, I want to do this more next year, especially because of course he's wearing the nice rainbow jersey. [00:08:26] - (): Craig Dalton (host): That's right. Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting to see how within the European Peloton, if it follows the U S. You know, in, in the early days of gravel as professional athletes started moving over like Ted King, for example, would dabble in it. And then I think he told some of his ex pro tour friends that, Hey, this is fun. **** - (): Plus you started to see them being able to make a career out of it. And obviously the likes of Wout van Aert is not going to leave the pro tour anytime soon, but it is interesting to think about. Riders who are later in their career, who still have power in their legs and enthusiasm in their heart to start seeing European gravel racing as a way to extend their career in a way that maybe gives them a little bit more joy than they had racing in the pro peloton after all those [00:09:16] - (): Erwin Verveken: Yeah. No, for sure. Um, I think there are two types of writers. You have the real top stars, like Rod van Aert, like Moritz and Demi Vollering. And I'm sure they will probably do one or two events a year when it fits in their program. But their focus will never be on gravel, uh, during the season, but well, the position of the gravel world championships at the end of the road season, uh, is ideal for them to end their season. **** - (): And I'm sure that, uh, one day, uh, probably also, uh, Pogacar will be there. He was already there at the first world championships last year. but wasn't allowed from his team to take part, but he was in the, in the VIP area at the finish line. The day after he won the Tour of Lombardia, so the last classic of the season, it was on Saturday and the gravel world championships were, well, nearby. **** - (): It's only a hundred kilometer away. So, and he really enjoyed it and he said, well, I want to do this race. But, yeah, it's still, um, there's still like the feeling of, okay, this is a dangerous sport, uh, uh, you can crash, you can, yeah, whatever, and it can jeopardize your next season, but as it's at the end of the season, I don't see really a point, uh, you see some, some crashes and, and, um, Yeah, that's, that's probably part of gravel, but it's not like a major crash. **** - (): It's always in small groups. Uh, gravel is, is, is not to be compared with, with mountain bike or cyclocross. It's a, it's, it's an off road discipline, but the type of event is much more road race. Um, and that's what we also also see in the last two years. I'm having my background in cyclocross and cyclocross is very big in Belgium, but the real gravel, I know the real cyclocross specialists, like the ones who do the full season of cyclocross. **** - (): Uh, and not focus on the road. Yeah. They usually, by the end of the race, the last hour, they, they, they lose contact with the, with, with, with the, the road is, um, uh, gravel is much more a road race than it will ever be, a cyclocross or a mountain bike. It's not technical at all. Um, and, and yeah, in my opinion, it's, it's, it's for the pure. **** - (): Road specialists from the, from the spring classic said that the ones who like, uh, party rebel, we're like tour of Flanders, uh, those type of guys. They are the ones who are the real gravel specialists. [00:11:41] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think one thing that we've learned in racing gravel over these years is that anything can happen and it's your ability as a rider to deal with unpredictable situations. And to your point as a cyclocross racer. Every lap, there's an unpredictable situation that you have to deal with and you have to deal with nursing your bike and not being too hard on the equipment. **** - (): And there's certainly no, you know, there's no team car following you very quickly. Although in cyclocross, you can swap [00:12:09] - (): Erwin Verveken: Yeah. You can switch bikes two times a lap. Um, and, and you can have it cleaned and everything. So, um, no, that's, that's, I think it makes. It's part of the story why it's, it's so popular because, uh, he lost 10 minutes at the world championships, but he still continued. And it's more like the epic, right? **** - (): Like you see in, uh, in Paris, uh, it's, it's kind of a survival race. Um, even though you have a lot of bad luck in the beginning, the race is never over. You can still continue. You can still make up and, and, and, uh, close gaps. And so. That feeling of, of, of, of like a real epic race in, in epic circumstances. At this moment, we, we had to ice the world championships in dry, in dry circumstances, but yeah, one day we'll also have them in, uh, in very wet circumstances, like you had, uh, I think unbound was this year in very muddy conditions. **** - (): So, and that will make it very epic. Uh, but to me it's, it's yeah, if you compare it with European. Cycling it's, it's, it's, it's, it's much more a copy of, uh, what Paris Roubaix is every year. [00:13:24] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, I was going to ask you to the extent in which you, you were there and understand the run up when that first world championships event happened in the qualifiers. How are you thinking about the criteria for the course and course construction? Were there some constraints that the UCI put on the event to make it in the mold of what they were expecting? [00:13:47] - (): Erwin Verveken: Well, the first year, first of all, um, because of COVID and, and, and yeah. Let's say COVID ended, but, uh, yeah, everybody was still afraid to set up a new event and even the World Championships, uh, beginning of 2022. We had a few candidates, uh, to run the World Championships, but, uh, one after another, they decided, okay, maybe it's too early. **** - (): Let's skip 2022, but we'll focus on 2023 or 2024. Um, So we found an organizer rather late in Italy, so Filippo Pozzato, the ex pro rider. He did a good job because it was like on a short period. He had to prepare the World Championships, but the World Championships were not the typical gravel race. I know from from this doing this series for sure. **** - (): Not the typical gravel race you have in the States. It was like a 50 50 road gravel race and even the gravel was like, yeah, it was flat. It was Um, yeah, to me a bit too much of a road race. Um, um, um, but yeah, it was all last minute. I think that the, uh, the organizer was awarded two months prior to the race. **** - (): Uh, then yeah, the full process of having courses approved, having them checked and then getting the necessary approvals from the different towns. Yeah, it took some time and there was not really. to, to, to, to make an update, um, um, which was done this year, this year. Uh, we had to switch organizer and it was also, uh, only, only two months before the world championships, but the course, which was presented was much better than the first edition, uh, in percentage was more off road, more gravel, but also much more exciting, uh, flats, uh, yeah. **** - (): Paved sections in between, but also a lot of elevation, um, and a very beautiful course, I think very different from what you have in the States. Um, if, if I see the images and the, and the videos from, from Unbound and the American races, yeah, they are. Even more road racing, uh, on gravel roads, um, yeah, in percentage, much more gravel roads, but it's less technical than what we see as gravel events in mainly Europe, which are, um, I wouldn't say they are not more towards mountain bike for sure or not, but they are, um, not wide open big boulevards where you can ride the truck. **** - (): Uh, it's always a smaller, uh, Uh, yeah, forest roads, farm roads. Um, it's, it's more technical. [00:16:38] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a wide diversity of gravel racing in the United States. Obviously, to your point, the Unbound may be on sort of dirt roads [00:16:48] - (): Erwin Verveken: Yeah. And that's maybe the image we have from, from American gravel racing. [00:16:51] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, no, it's very interesting to hear you say that because if I'm thinking about like what you might see from an unbound or an SVT gravel, that would very much be the takeaway. **** - (): I would have as well that these are, you know, sort of road racing style open, you know, wide roads that give a lot of opportunity for moving around. Um, but if you dig into the gravel cycling world, there are a lot of events that really push The capabilities of the bikes and really create sections that have a huge impact on the race based on one's technical abilities. **** - (): So, you know, they might go into single track, they might go into mud, they might have river crossings, all the types of things that would really push both the rider's skill levels and equipment. [00:17:37] - (): Erwin Verveken: Well, for, for the UCI, uh, two things, of course, when, when we started up the, the UCI Gravel Series and the Gravel World Championships. Um, one of the first things we decided is, uh, you have a few of, of, of, uh, of very long, uh, endurance races, uh, a month is, uh, 300 kilometers or even more than 200 miles. Um, [00:18:00] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. 200 miles. Yeah, [00:18:01] - (): Erwin Verveken: we decided to, with the UCI gravel world series to have like the typical, um, duration of a road race. **** - (): So five, six hours. Um, racing, not, not like unmount this, I guess, 10, 11 hours of racing. Uh, and that's what we are. We're not aiming for that. That's, that's like, yeah, a very big endurance race. Uh, our goal is to keep it in between 150 and 200 kilometers. Um, depending a bit on the elevation and on what is available. **** - (): Um, and then, uh, a second thing is so like single track. It is possible when there's no alternative, so to connect two sections, uh, with a small single track, uh, towards the end of the race. Yeah, it's not preferred, but if there's no other solution, then we allow it. But the big majority should be on wide open gravel roads where we can also ride a car. **** - (): That's the goal of the UCI Gravel World Series. [00:19:10] - (): Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I certainly noticed in the, in the race coverage this past year, and certainly commentary from both the men and women on the U S team that the narrowness of the roads. And you hear this refrain, even when road cyclists go over to Europe, it's just another world when you're trying to pack 200 people into these, through these narrow villages. **** - (): And certainly the other big thing that... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29613803

Made Bicycle Show 2024 with Billy Sinkford 01/16/2024

Made Bicycle Show 2024 with Billy Sinkford Billy Sinkford, Vice President of Echos Communications, discusses the genesis of the MADE show and its impact on the handmade bike community. He shares his experience as a former bike messenger and how it led him to work in the urban cycling industry. Billy also highlights the importance of brand representation and storytelling in the cycling industry. He provides insights into the success of the first MADE show and gives a preview of what to expect in the upcoming shows in Portland and Melbourne. Don't miss this exciting conversation about the future of the handmade bike community. Episode Sponsor: MADE Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:29] Craig Dalton (host): This week on the show. I welcome Billy. Sinford from the maid bicycle show in Portland, Oregon. You may recall if you're a listener from last year that I attended the show. In 2023 and had dozens of interviews with fantastic frame builders from around the country. I super enjoyed the show, the experience, the overall vibe of the show. So I was thrilled to get some communication from echos communications that the show is on. Again for 2024, I wanted to get a little bit of the backstory and inspiration for the show. And learn some secrets about the upcoming show in 2024. Little did I know at the end of this episode, I was going to learn about yet another exciting new development. I'll leave you with that. And we'll wait till the end, until we find out that secret from Billy. But before we get started, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor a G one. Taking care of your health. Isn't always easy, but it should at least be simple. That's why for me, for the last decade, I've been drinking age one every day, no exceptions. It's just one scoop mixed in water once a day, every day. And it makes me feel energized and ready to take on the day. That's because each serving of AIG one delivers my daily dose of vitamins minerals and pre and probiotics and more, it's a powerful, healthy habit that also is powerfully simple. Okay, let me go back a decade and explain why. became an essential part of my daily routine. I come to recognize that nutritionally, I just wasn't covering my bases with my diets. I was often cutting corners and just not getting the nutrients and vitamins I was looking for. I started thinking about taking a multivitamin or multiple multivitamins. And that didn't drive with me as well. I knew I wasn't going to be able to maintain consistency. Without something simple in my life. But with ag one, I discovered that it's a simple powder that's mixed with water. Can do it very quickly. And it has everything and more than I was looking for. So I introduced into my life and I haven't gone back. Over a decade, which is pretty incredible for a product like this. So if there's one product I had to recommend to elevate your health that's ag one. And that's why I've partnered with them for so long. I think they've been part of the show for over three years now. So, if you want to take ownership of your health, start with a G one. Tri AIG one and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D plus K2. And five free AIG one travel packs with your first purchase. Exclusively at drink, AIG one.com/the gravel ride. That's drink AIG one.com/the gravel ride to check it out today. Without behind us, let's jump right into my conversation with Billy. [00:03:24] Craig Dalton (host): Billy, welcome to the show. [00:03:25] Billy Sinkford: Thank you for having me, Craig. It's a pleasure to be here. [00:03:29] Craig Dalton (host): I know it's a busy week for you guys at MADE, so I appreciate you making the time and I'm excited to kind of just talk about the show. I did a bunch of episodes and Certainly had a bunch of conversations with frame builders during my visit to made in 2023. So I'm excited to just talk about the plans for 2024, but to set the stage for the conversation, we always like to kind of roll back a little bit and just understand, how did you develop a passion for the bike? Did you grow up riding? So why don't you start off by just letting us know where you grew up and how you discovered the bike and how that journey ultimately took you to kind of being in the industry as a professional. [00:04:10] Billy Sinkford: Well, first off, thanks for coming to MAID in 2023. It was awesome to have you and love the videos that you put out surrounding it. And we're stoked for 2024. We'll get, we'll get there though. I was a bike messenger in Boston in the late 90s and early 2000s. Uh, that was my first job working on the bike, uh, all day, uh, rain or snow, uh, in Boston, and did that, uh, for quite some time. Eventually ended up moving to San Francisco, uh, where I also was a, a bike messenger after a brief stint, uh, in divinity school, uh, which I decided was not, not for me. And from there, I started working with chrome industries and started working in kind of the urban cycling field of things. And, you know, for lack of a better term, I weaseled and worked my way into a job at chrome and. Um, my, the director of marketing at Chrome, Rob Reedy, who is my business partner at Echos. He's the CEO of Echos and I'm the VP, uh, gave me a chance and gave me a job and we worked together for years over at Chrome and eventually, uh, founded Echos Communications, which is a PR and marketing firm for, Active outdoors, uh, with a huge focus on cycling and I am fortunate enough to be the vice president of that and manage, uh, manage our cycling stuff that echoes communications. So that, that's [00:05:47] Craig Dalton (host): how I got there. I'm curious if, if you go back to those days as a courier, my experience with the courier community there, there were certainly some couriers who were bike racers, bike lovers, lovers of all things, bikes, and they discovered curry being a courier as a vocation that allowed them to, you know, work on their bike and stay fit. I've also heard from many of those same. Bike racer couriers that it's a horrible way to train because it's so hard on your body. So I'm just curious, were you, you know, part of that courier culture and the bike was a work mechanism and you fell in love with that, you know, the fixie kind of culture, or was there another thread of your passion for the bike that was mountain biking or road racing at the time? [00:06:35] Billy Sinkford: When I was in Boston, it was definitely about the culture and community, and the bike was just the tool that allowed for all of that to happen. When I moved out to San Francisco, the company that I worked for, Godspeed Courier, we had a race team. I was partially in charge of all the sponsorships and helped out a lot of the company. Definitely, uh, started wearing spandex and shaving our legs and going and doing local crits. And at that time road races, it was all road, uh, for me back then in the San Francisco Bay area and competed at all kinds of road races, uh, underneath the Godspeed courier banner. But I was, uh, I was a heavy dude. I still am a, I'm a big guy and I never, uh, I went out and just. Beat the crap out of everybody for the first 20 miles and then basically did an 80 mile bike ride by myself after the rest of the race, but I absolutely loved it. And it was a different kind of community and that definitely carried over. And, you know, I certainly by no means of. Kept up with it or pinned a number in a long time. I did last year for a minute, but, uh, definitely still enjoy being sometimes at the pointy end of the spear. Um, but yeah, messengering definitely brought me into that race culture. And then that carried over into my time in the industry, without a doubt. [00:07:55] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, obviously like Chrome had its parts of his origin from that culture and that vibe, that commuter, worker, the, you know, the well constructed bags and later the shoes and clothing that they brought into the mix as you kind of represented them and were kind of earning your chops on the business side of the bike industry. What were you learning in that time that you kind of took forward about how brands need to be represented to cyclists in order to grow and be relevant? [00:08:28] Billy Sinkford: Working in the urban cycling side of things first was, was really interesting and I think it relates to stuff in the handmade market. I think it relates to cycling as a whole because we, and sometimes think of ourselves as this huge entity, right? In reality, cycling is a niche sport and a niche hobby. Uh, so looking at it through that lens and then knowing that urban cycling was a niche within. That niche, uh, we called it don't Timbuktu it back in the day Timbuktu started stopping selling messenger bags and started selling travel luggage and briefcases for a, for a brief minute. And at Chrome, we just made sure we didn't Timbuktu it. And we were trying to stay. With the core sponsoring messenger races, making sure that we're not only sponsored them, but we're actively present at the races and engaging with the community and bringing a cool vibe and having a good time. And that I think has carried over into everything that we've done at echoes and hopefully what we've brought to, uh, the cycling community at large. And that's the present. Be there and and be a part of the community. [00:09:42] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think there's so much to obviously the storytelling of these brands that is so critical and how they resonate with fans and consumers of these products [00:09:55] Billy Sinkford: and it's really easy to lose it quite quickly. So, you know, having a good mission statement, understanding what your brand is, and actually standing by that and standing behind it, standing behind the community that you're, you're making products for, and hopefully. An active part of that community. Do those, you're, you're going to be on the side of right. Yeah, you [00:10:17] Craig Dalton (host): mentioned some of the work you do at echoes and just to set the stage for when we later talk about the maid show. Can you talk about some of the clients you've had the privilege of working with over the years? And then we'll get into what was the genesis behind the idea for [00:10:34] Billy Sinkford: made? Sure. We have had the privilege and pleasure and honest. I'd say honor of working with a lot of really amazing brands and folks within those brands. We started definitely on the urban cycling tip, but with that, we also, you know, feedback sports and, and mission workshop where our two first clients as an agency. Uh, we launched and ran the Levi's Commuter Program, uh, for the first three years of doing that and did all of the global or national events rather, uh, bike shops and community building stuff around that. And that was super fun and and rad to, to work along the Levi's, uh, Levi's crew and their team. Blackburn. Uh, we've worked with Greg Lamond. Uh, currently we've got an awesome, I guess, what's most relevant to the handmade community. Mosaic cycles, Argonaut cycles, Lowe, uh, we're currently, uh, and have been for quite some time working with Moots, Paul Components, Paul's a dear friend of mine, and we worked with him for several years, Abby Bike Tools, so everything, uh, we brought together. Bosch to market here in the United States a couple months before Shimano got got into the e bike game here Uh worked with a ton of e bike brands So companies large and small we are just started working with Campagnolo, uh, which is phenomenal and we're really thrilled about that we've had the pleasure of working with over 100 bike brands and i've gotten to Floyd's of Leadville and Floyd Landis, dear friend, and we managed all of the, uh, PR and some of the marketing for all of his CBD stuff and, uh, and his Floyd's 5 cannabis as well. So, gotten to work alongside people that I idolized when I was a messenger and had them become not only business associates, but folks that I call friends. Um, so it's been, it's been a wild journey and, uh, and we're still, we're still, I think, just getting started. [00:12:36] Craig Dalton (host): Amazing. We were talking a little bit offline about the North American Handmade Bike Show, and it sounds like you've had a relationship, understandably so, with the brands you tended to represent with that show for, for many years. Can you just talk about kind of your memories of that show and the place it kind of held in the industry [00:12:56] Billy Sinkford: for you? Oh, I loved nabs. Absolutely loved it. Uh, used to go just as a, you know, marketing and PR guy for the brands that we worked with. Uh, so always had 5 or 6 builders or brands, uh, on the show floor that we were working with. Uh, we did, uh, for a brief period of time for a little under 2 years, actually manage all the PR for the show itself when it was in Salt Lake City. Uh, obviously the show is not around anymore and, uh, Don and I. I've had a tumultuous relationship throughout the last, uh, 15 years for sure. Um, but. What Don did on the North American Handmade Bike Show, I think was phenomenal for the builder community and nothing that we're doing, I think, would be possible without the groundwork that went into that. Both from Don, so kudos to him, and then also the builder community for showing up and being present. You know, being willing to put their energy and effort into something that has turned out to be really, really great or for the builder community. So I think the show was great. It was sad to see it go, but it also gave us the opportunity to start made, which is something that 10. I mean, it's been 10 years plus, since we've been kind of talking about potentially. Helping put together a different version of a handmade bike show, a more modern version of it. And with Navs no longer taking place, the builder community asked us if we would step up to the plate and make it happen. We were fortunate enough to be able to. To, to do that, so it's been, it's been pretty cool. [00:14:39] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, you know, obviously, like, with NABS going away, there was this pent up demand and enthusiasm for the builders to get together. To your point, NABS was just such a great gathering of such a diverse group of artisan frame builders that was so different than any other bicycle show that was around at the time. When you started to see, like, NABS is not there. We are seeing this opportunity. We're going to take this mantle. It seems like it would be a daunting challenge to go from that idea to actually producing made. What was the decision making process? What did that look like for you? Or did you ask yourself what? If we can just get 20 brands to commit early, I feel like there's enough momentum that we can do this. I'm just curious to get into your, your mind and your colleagues minds about when was the go, no go decision and what was that process like? [00:15:38] Billy Sinkford: Well, COVID, we had wanted to do this before COVID. Luckily, we did not pull the trigger on, uh, any form of trade show prior to that, because that would have definitely changed things. Uh, You know, nobody could travel. Nobody would have been able to show up. Uh, the community support, uh, my partner, Rob and I, uh, spoke to a bunch of builders, spoke to a bunch of brands, uh, brands that support the builder community. So Chris Kang specifically being 1 of them who we also we do, uh, manage their PR and everybody. One after one, people said, yes, please do this. And yes, we'll help support it. And there weren't any nose and we just kept hearing. Yes. So we started looking at it from a logistic standpoint and realize that that we could pull this off and that it could be awesome. Originally, it was supposed to be entirely outside because of the pandemic. And we didn't know. What that was going to look like and we kind of wanted to safeguard the show and there's a very, very brief window in Portland where the weather is fantastic. Uh, and we, we've got it right now or made it was. Wildly unseasonably hot during the, uh, the first year of the show, but, uh, the venue that we found is phenomenal, uh, and old abandoned shipyard, uh, I mean, you, you saw it yourself. It's, it's perfect for the handmade, uh, market probably wouldn't work for. A bike show where track and specialized and giant wanted to show up and do their things. But for those that are actually working with their hands and, you know, making metal more metal, uh, super cool environment, uh, for them to be in and the venue lined up and after that, you know, that's it. I won't say that all the pieces magically fell together. There was a lot of hard work from the entire team that made behind the scenes, but, uh, it came together and it, you know, hard work and then the support of the builder community, uh, really brought it all together and year one was fantastic. I mean, I know you didn't get to go for the consumer days, but we very purposefully had time so that you were able to be there and spend time creating content and talking with builders and the. The builder community hadn't been together in, in years because of the pandemic and the lack of nabs even before that. So we carved out a little bit of extra time for that and that was super fun and got to take 200 builders, media and industry people and my favorite ride through Forest Park, uh, which was phenomenal. So it wasn't just a show itself. I think it was the entire experience of being in Portland together and it was really cool. [00:18:25] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, absolutely. We got the food trucks in the back parking lot. Everything was just a lot of fun and I totally agree. It was, you know, nobody had to feel awkward about the style of booth they created or what they were bringing because it wasn't this super polished, super dome of convention centers or anything like that that we saw at Interbike. It was really, it felt very native to the handmade bicycle community for [00:18:51] Billy Sinkford: sure. And I think this year, you know, a lot of the, I would say 90 percent of the exhibitors, you know, we made a few videos, we, folks understood what they were walking into, to an extent. But it's one thing to see it online and read about it. It's another thing to actually be in the venue. And now, most of the exhibitors are coming back for, for year two, and they all know what things look like. So I think it'll be really cool to see how people take the space. And make their little, their portion of it their own and work with it. So, I think year one was rad and there were some folks that had some killer, killer booth designs that you would never, ever in your wildest dreams see at Eurobike or Interbike or Sea Otter. Um, and I think it worked out great that we weren't entirely outside because looking at some Consumer facing shows, which are all awesome, but it's a sea of 10 by 10 and 10 by 20 pop up tents, and we encourage people to bring tents so they've got their branding, but some of the cooler booths were, you know, handmade from wood that people brought with them, and it was super neat to see not only the folks showing, It's amazing work that they're doing, uh, but then also, you know, building a booth out that reflects that was, was [00:20:04] Craig Dalton (host): really unique. A hundred percent. It's just sort of, you know, everybody in the handmade community is so creative and just to allow them to have that freedom to develop their own displays. Super cool to see. And super... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29508338

Kowtown Gravel: Another secret stash of great Colorado gravel with Laura Wisner 01/05/2024

Kowtown Gravel: Another secret stash of great Colorado gravel with Laura Wisner Laura Wisner joins the podcast to discuss Kowtown Gravel, a gravel cycling event that takes place in Kremmling, Colorado. She shares her background in cycling and how she found her way to gravel cycling. Laura talks about her connection to Kremmling and the beautiful gravel roads in the area. She describes the different terrains and challenges that riders can expect on the Kowtown Gravel course. Laura also discusses the spirit of the event and how it is a fundraiser for the community gym in Kremmling. She invites cyclists to come and experience the unique gravel roads and welcoming community of Kowtown Gravel. Key Takeaways: - Kowtown Gravel is a gravel cycling event that takes place in Kremmling, Colorado. - The event offers three course lengths: the Bull (90 miles), the Cow (60 miles), and the Calf (35 miles). - The course features a mix of smooth gravel roads, chunkier sections, and climbs. - Kowtown Gravel is a fundraiser for the community gym floor in Kremmling. - The event welcomes both competitive riders and those who want to enjoy a scenic ride. Kowtown Gravel Episode Sponsor: (code TheGravelRide for 15% off) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:26] Craig Dalton (host): This week on the podcast. We welcome Laura Wizner to the show to talk about cow town, gravel Cowtown gravel is a Colorado event happening on July 6th, 2024 in Kremmling, Colorado. Kremmling as a town you might've been through on your way to Steamboat Springs, but it's a town. The race organizers want you to remember as the gravel is fantastic as are the views. Laura's come on to talk to us about all you can expect from Cowtown, gravel, and an interesting story about how she became familiar with crumbling in the first place. I hope you enjoy this episode. Before we jump in, I did need to thank this week. Sponsor, dynamic cyclist. Dynamic cyclist has been producing, cycling, specific stretching and strengthening routines for many years. Now. They've got a vast library of content, both focused on you as a general cyclist, but also many different programs based on specific areas of weakness. It's during this period every year in the winter that I start thinking about how limiting my personal low back problems have made my cycling. So I love to dig into the dynamic cyclist. Low back routine six week program, just focusing on getting those stretches needed, to get deep into everything related to my hip flexors and lower back. It's a great reminder that stretching only takes a short amount of time for having a huge impact. All their videos are no longer than 15 minutes. So none of us has any excuses not to squeeze them into our winter routines to get us prepped for this season. I say that, and I'm not going to lie. I miss a day or two here or there, but it's on my mind, frankly, constantly this idea that stretching is probably one of the most important things I can do to set myself up for success in 2024. So go on over to dynamic cyclists.com. They've got a seven day free trial. So it's easy to see if, if it's something that you would like, they're also offering our listeners a 15% off discount on any of their programs. Which include either monthly or annual billing. So it's pretty flexible. If you're someone who just wants to do some routines in the winter, for example, anyway, head on over to dynamics, cyclists.com. Use the coupon code, the gravel ride, or follow the link in the show notes to get directly over there. With that business behind us, let's jump right into my conversation with Laura. [00:03:01] Craig Dalton: Laura, welcome to the show. [00:03:02] Laura Wisner: I'm so glad that you have me here. Thank you. [00:03:05] Craig Dalton: Where are you sitting today? [00:03:07] Laura Wisner: I am based in Boulder, [00:03:08] Craig Dalton: Colorado. Okay, and I'm excited to get you on to talk about Cowtown Gravel, which is not in Boulder, Colorado. So why don't you just set the stage by telling us where Cowtown Gravel takes place, and why don't you drop the, the month it takes place as well. [00:03:24] Laura Wisner: Okay, so Cowtown Gravel is in Kremling, Colorado. Um, it's going to take place for the second time on July 6, 2024. And Kremling, for those who have been to Steamboat, if you are coming from the Front Range Denver area, and you get a high 70, you go, um, north, we are the crook in the road in between Silverthorne and Steamboat Springs. Um, so Kremling is that, that little town that everybody has to go through, but may not have ever stopped there. [00:04:02] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think as we discovered offline on my way to steamboat gravel, I definitely went through Kremling. I lived in Boulder, and if you had asked me to point to it on a map prior to this conversation, I wouldn't have been able to do it. But it's clear from my driving through that area, it's absolutely a beautiful part of the state. So we'll get into why and how the event got started. But first, let's just learn a little bit more about you and how you found your way to cycling and gravel cycling specifically. [00:04:31] Laura Wisner: Yeah, well, I mean, old, old school is Anybody who grew up in upper Midwest gravel road when they were kids, because not all roads were, um, paved back then. So, I mean, I started as a kid, just getting on my bike when you're up at our, um, vacation cottage and just take off for hours and hours on a gravel road, you know, no cell phones, parents have no idea where I was, um, no helmet, probably riding in cutoff jeans or something like that. But, um, you know, those are the, the good old days and then as I became an adult and got into, um, riding proper, uh, you know, got into road riding, mountain biking, cyclocross, and, um, the blessing of living in Boulder County is that we have these amazing gravel roads and, you know, people ask, well, why are you riding gravel? And I liken it to, if you live along one of the coasts, You learn to surf because it's right there and you should take advantage of it. So living here in Boulder County, it's crazy not to have a gravel bike or at least, you know, change out your wheels so you can get on our back roads and just go for miles and miles and hours and hours. So [00:05:50] Craig Dalton: yeah, I'm thinking back to which probably my first quote unquote gravel event was Boulder Rue Bay. In the early 90s when I lived in Boulder, and I certainly rode that on 23 C road tires. There's no doubt about it in my mind. Yeah, and [00:06:07] Laura Wisner: with my, my cycling friends and club, you know, we would, you know, even 10 years ago, we, a lot of us were just riding on gravel roads with, you know, road tires, um, and that was okay because they're, they're so smooth around here. And if you got a little chunky, well, I hope you're by handling slower. Up to the challenge, but, you know, this, uh, gravel revolution happened and all of a sudden you have all these options, um, not only in tires, but all of a sudden frames and, you know, it just became this. Um, the celebration of all things gravel. And so now it's just another bike in your quiver. Um, so yeah, we did that too. [00:06:54] Craig Dalton: As gravel started to become popularized and specific bikes started to arrive. Were you someone who found your way to gravel events outside of Boulder County? Yeah, you know, [00:07:05] Laura Wisner: I did the very first, um, seaboat gravel. Um, did that for a couple of years and at that point I was racing cross and so what I would do is use my cross bike and just switch out. Um, the wheels, but, you know, the one by there's some pretty good grades around here. If you head up the mountains straight from Boulder, um, you can go up to Gold Hill or Ward. Um, it's a little hard on a 1 by, you know, that's a pretty good workout in and of itself. And geometry is not quite right, so it. Became a love of mine to the point where, okay. I'm going all in, I'm buying the frame, you know, the specific. Um, gravel bike and got rid of the road frame and. And then got rid of the cross bike and gravel is pretty much it at this [00:08:00] Craig Dalton: point. Nice. And so let's talk about your connection to Kremling, Colorado, and how you became familiar with the area in the first place. [00:08:10] Laura Wisner: Yeah. So Kremling, other being the, other than being the, uh, the bend in the road as you go up the steamboat, it's the, uh, West Grams County area. So people know Winter Park. Winter Park is. East Grand, Kremling is West Grand, and so I've been in Grand County quite a bit, skiing and cycling and things like that, but my husband has a family practice position, and for five years, he was Kremling's town doc, and so we kept our family home base here in Boulder, and he would go up to Kremling midweek, and it's a small community, it's predominantly a ranching community, And he got to know the people and, um, I got to slowly know more of the people and when I would go up to visit him midweek. We would go for gravel rides, and I was just blown away by roads that I didn't know existed. Um, the quality of the gravel was incredible. Um, and I had ridden, you know, boulder roads, I had ridden around steamboats. Um, and, and crumbling is just unsurpassed as far as the quality of its gravel. And the roads that we rode for three hours, and I think one truck passed us. Um, so, um, being part of Cowtown Gravel is just my way of giving back to that community and being able to lend my excitement for what the area has to offer to other folks who love gravel as much as I do. [00:09:51] Craig Dalton: I've gotten many questions about Cowtown Gravel, but I have to take us on a quick detour because I'm curious. I had recently, I'm curious about becoming the town doctor for a community. Is that was your husband sort of offered employment at the city or county level to come and be a physician for that community? And my only point of reference is watching Doc Hollywood recently with my 9 year old son, [00:10:20] Laura Wisner: my husband was a position on the front range for a while and part of the, the bigger system that sometimes is kind of beholden to insurance companies. And he just wanted something different. Um, and in Boulder, a little bit of his frustration was continually patting people on the back thing. You're healthy as a horse, you know, continue that marathon training or, you know, climbing or whatever you're doing. Um, if you wanted something a little bit more challenging, and when you go to a rural community, you get to see a lot more. Um, Kremlin does have an incredible, uh, health system up there. They were the first in Colorado to have a trauma one emergency room, uh, decades ago. And, um, they're, they're top notch, uh, health care up there, but it's hard to find doctors in rural areas. So, um, he, he, his attention was called to this position and he went up there and thought, you know, what? I want to do this, um, and truly the only reason that he came back. To the front range, uh, after five years is because we have a, a kid who's finishing up high school and he wanted to be present for that last year. So, so he made the change, but there is a part of both his and my heart that is still in K Town. [00:11:49] Craig Dalton: Yeah, you had mentioned, obviously part of his journey was getting to know members of the community and de facto with your visits there, you started to get to know. some of the community members and as avid cyclists exploring. It sounds like you found other gravel cyclists who are based out of Cowtown. Can you talk about some of those characters you met? Oh [00:12:10] Laura Wisner: yeah, and, and the biggest character of all is Sean Scholl, who is a co race promoter with, uh, along with Blaine Day. And Sean is Big Shooter of Big Shooter Coffee. And he is this incredibly loud, large character who is just incredible and so full of fun and has a lot of energy. And he, he was a world class athlete. And I would even say still is. Um, so he lives up there and he and Blaine are cycling buddies. And they wanted to create an event. Up in Kremling, welcome the world, come and check it out, check out the back roads. And when I heard through the grapevine that they were going to have this gravel race, I reached out to them and I said, I'm in, I want to help, what can I do? My background is in marketing and so I was able to lend that to them. The organization and so the, the really incredible thing about Blaine and Sean is that they're not trying to create an event that is just, you know, really easy. Come on up and, you know, we'll show you our background roads and we'll just have a great day. They surprised people in our first year with how hot it was. So, the Kremlin gravel, uh, we call it untapped and untamed, which is when you drive into Kremlin, that's the sign as you come into town, welcome to Kremlin, untapped and untamed. And we decided to put that as our gravel moniker. Um, there are roads that you couldn't even tell that's gravel because it almost feels paved. Um, and then you can go a little further in and, you know, get a little bit chunkier, um, a little bit rowdier. Um, and and what these guys are doing is they are creating an experience for, um, all 3 of our porcelain that people are just blown away by. Um, they're blown away by the climbing. They're blown away by, um, sections. Of roads or trails that they didn't even know existed. So we had such good feedback last year that the team had scientists went back to the drawing board. That my ride this year and made it even rowdier. So, really excited to have those people who joined us last year. Come and see what we have in store this year. [00:14:50] Craig Dalton: Yeah, that sounds amazing. So I want to talk a little bit about the gravel. I mean, obviously, if you go a little further up the road, an hour to steamboat, they talk about champagne gravel. You've been describing it a little bit, but it sounds like the team at Cowtown is trying to make sure that both our climbing legs, as well as our technical skills are explored. So what type, you know, if you think about through the course of the, the longer course, Think about the types of terrain and describe some of the different areas, whether it's single track, double track or dirt road that you might find yourself on. [00:15:23] Laura Wisner: Yeah. So, um, right now on calicongravel. com, we have the maps available to folks with the one caveat is that these might change because we're working with the Bureau of Land Management and the PLM. Um, Bill are going to tell us yes or no on some sections. So we put the scenario on that has more paved segments than non paved. I should say. All of our 3 races are predominantly gravel. If the BLM will give us permission, we're going to take off more paved sections and add more gravel for unpaved. So, um, our longest course is called the bull. It's 90 miles and it has 8, 000 feet of climbing. So, as it stands right now, worst case scenario, 76 percent unpaid, which is pretty incredible in and of itself. So, uh, we start right outside of town square. Um, we're going to start the high school, all downtown Kremling. Um, and we're going to start going northeast and if we're starting with paves, it's going to be a pretty fast start. There will be a peloton and, and, um, some people can hang on for dear life and some are just going to, you know, hard charge from the start. From there, we get to a really smooth gravel. It's very similar to Of pavement and you will hardly even tell that it's it's gravel. Um, and it's just a hard pack. It's beautiful. And from there, we go to what we call the whoopie moves and, um, just rolling, um, up and down and that is probably 1 of our chunkier sections, um, you know, a little bit looser, a little bit larger, uh, rock section, but It is something that anybody with, you know, halfway decent bike handling skills is going to be able to accomplish, um, and they're fun. And so we go from there back to a nice hard pack gravel. Um, something that is new this year is we're going up Black Mountain, um, which is about a 1600 foot climb. And both the bull long course and the cow mid length course will go up Black Mountain. Um, and at the top they're going to go down through three miles of private ranch land, which is super cool because, you know, part of the fun of gravel is exploring roads and places you've never been. So this private ranch land is only going to be accessible on race day. So you can't pre ride it. Can't check it out the day before. So that is going to be, um, a really fun first climb and I'll probably set the, the pack apart a bit there. [00:18:30] Craig Dalton: And how about on that, on that descent, is it the type of thing that it's sort of wide open and it's full gas or are there some technical elements to it that you need to be cautious about? Um, [00:18:42] Laura Wisner: it's going to be fine. It's not going to be super technical because we are taking, um. The mid and the long course through it. We wanted to make sure that, you know, we're not, uh, less than anybody going down that. So, um. It's totally rideable, and, and you won't need shocks, and, and you won't need, uh, mountain bike handling skills. But, I mean, those people who are, who want to go fast certainly can let it loose on that. It'll be great. Yeah, [00:19:13] Craig Dalton: yeah, and then it looks like from the course profile that you hit another big climb. Well, [00:19:17] Laura Wisner: here's where the two, uh, courses diverge. So, the bull, will go up again, and they'll go up Grouse Mountain. This was a part of the course from last year that people really enjoyed. Um, so they'll go up, and Grouse Mountain is, um, it's a, it's a paved, not a paved, it's a gravel road for ranchers to access their ranches. So, I mean, it's just a normal road. Once you get up towards the loop, there is going to be a little bit more, um, dirt section versus gravel, um, and. The whole loop has been expanded this year, so people can catch their breath this year. Check out the views, that's our highest point in the race. And, um, it's really beautiful. There's an abandoned cabin up there. There are streams that people often just fill their water bottles with, unfiltered water. Um, and are totally fine. So, we are going back up Grouse Mountain on the long course. Doing a lollipop and then coming back down [00:20:28] Craig Dalton: again. Got it. And I forgot to mention, or ask, what elevation is crumbling to start with? [00:20:34] Laura Wisner: Oh, crumbling is, uh, sorry about that. Crumbling is a little bit lower. I'd have to check that out. [00:20:45] Craig Dalton: Yeah, so a little bit lower than Boulder. So we're, we're not in the stratosphere when we climb up 1600 feet. [00:20:50] Laura Wisner: Um, I'm not going to say it's lower than Boulder, but it's, it's not, um, oh, 73, almost 7400 feet. [00:20:59] Craig Dalton: Okay. So that's no joke for us. Flatlanders. [00:21:02] Laura Wisner: Well, we have to give you some, some elements of the mountains here, but it's not like you're starting up at 11, 000 feet and you're going to feel the altitude a little bit if you're coming from, [00:21:15] Craig Dalton: yeah, that's part of the fun. Okay, so we've gone up and down grass mountain. What, what comes next? [00:21:22] Laura Wisner: Okay, so what we're doing this year is we are reversing course around our reservoir. Williams Fork Reservoir is just beautiful. And last year we... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29363153

Gravel Del Fuego Race - a Patagonian adventure with Tito Nazar 12/20/2023

Gravel Del Fuego Race - a Patagonian adventure with Tito Nazar Tito Nazar, the founder of Gravel de Fuego, discusses the growth of gravel cycling in Chile and the unique challenges and beauty of the Patagonia region. He shares his personal journey from mountaineering to ultra running to gravel cycling, and how he was inspired to create the Gravel de Fuego event. The event features a sprint loop of 252 km and a 1000k race, both showcasing the stunning landscapes of Patagonia. Tito emphasizes the importance of experiencing nature and the sense of adventure that comes with ultra cycling. The event takes place in April and participants can fly into Santiago before traveling to Punta Arenas. Gravel Del Fuego and Episode Sponsor: (15% off with code TheGravelRide) Join About The Guest(s): Tito Nazar is a gravel cyclist and race organizer from Chile. He grew up in Patagonia and has a deep connection with the region. Tito is the co-founder of Gravel de Fuego, a gravel race that takes place in the stunning landscapes of Patagonia. Summary: Tito Nazar, a gravel cyclist and race organizer from Chile, joins the show to discuss the Gravel de Fuego race and the beauty of Patagonia. Tito shares his background in mountaineering and ultra running before discovering gravel cycling. He talks about the growth of the gravel community in Chile and the unique challenges of gravel riding in Patagonia. Tito then dives into the details of the Gravel de Fuego race, including the sprint loop and the 1000k event. He highlights the breathtaking scenery, the logistics of the race, and the opportunity for riders to connect with nature. Tito also discusses the importance of timing the race in April to avoid extreme winds and rains. The conversation concludes with Tito explaining the process of crossing the waterway and the unique experience of finishing the race. Key Takeaways: - Gravel cycling is growing in popularity in Chile, particularly in Santiago. - Gravel de Fuego offers riders the opportunity to experience the stunning landscapes of Patagonia. - The sprint loop of the race showcases the iconic Torres del Paine mountains. - The 1000k event takes riders through diverse landscapes, including flat pampas and mountain ranges. - The race provides support and accommodations for riders, ensuring their safety and comfort. Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:28] Craig Dalton (host): This week on the podcast that got the great pleasure of welcoming Tito Nazar founder of gravel Delph Wigo out of Chile. To discuss the event, the growth of gravel in Chile and Patagonia. And the beauty of the region of Patagonia, he's going to share his personal journey from mountaineering to ultra running to gravel cycling and how he was inspired to create gravel the flag out. As an homage to his home region. Of Patagonia. As someone who's had the great pleasure of visiting Patagonia on a hiking trip previously, I would double click on that and encourage you to run over to Instagram and follow the gravel dove Wagga site. To see just what we're talking about. As we have this conversation. Before we jump into this conversation. I need to thank this week sponsor. Dynamic cyclist. If you're not familiar with dynamic cyclist. It's a video base, stretching and strength program focused on cyclists. The team over there has created a vast library of stretching and strengthening routines. Focus specifically on those problem areas that us as cyclists constantly endure as someone who's always struggled with mobility and flexibility, I've really welcomed these training sessions. Because there are only 15 minutes long, which means you can fit them into almost any day of the week. They focus on the various body parts that we overuse at cyclist and even have specific stretching programs for those problem areas. For me, it's the low back. So each winter. I follow their six week low back training program. In addition to the general stretching and strengthening training advice. They provide. Go on over to dynamics, cyclist and check it out. You can use the coupon code. A gravel ride. To get 15% off any of their plans, they do have a free trial. So there's no reason. Not to head on over to dynamics, cyclist.com and give it a try. With that business behind us, let's jump right into my conversation with Tito. [00:02:35] Craig Dalton (host): Tito, welcome to the show. [00:02:38] Tito Nazar (guest): Hello. [00:02:39] Craig Dalton (host): I'm super excited to have this conversation. It's been a while in the making. [00:02:43] Tito Nazar (guest): Thank you so much for your patience. Um, it required a lot of work on my side, but you've been very kind to me, so thank you for having me. [00:02:52] Craig Dalton (host): You had me at Patagonia. The moment you said that in your first email, I was like, I need to find out what Tito's all about. And the more I've learned over the years have left, left even more excited to have this conversation today. [00:03:08] Tito Nazar (guest): Yeah, Patagonia, well, it's such a powerful word. Uh, probably you agree with this. Um, yeah, Patagonia is very far south, don't you think? Close to Antarctica, maybe? [00:03:19] Craig Dalton (host): Indeed, I think it's the farthest South I've ever been and just putting it out there to those listening. I've been on a trekking trip in Patagonia, which covers the and jump in, correct me if I'm wrong, but the sort of southern area of Argentina and Chile is kind of the Patagonia region. And I had the pleasure of seeing some of the most beautiful mountains in the world on this track. And also some of the longest bus rides I feel like I've ever taken across the region to get from one point to another. [00:03:48] Tito Nazar (guest): And windy, maybe, no? Yeah. [00:03:51] Craig Dalton (host): A hundred percent. I think the first day, the sort of the female guide, she was wearing a ski hat and it was, it was not a cold time of year. And she was just basically like, Hey, if you're going to be out in this ripping wind all day, it's just nice to have something covering your ears. [00:04:06] Tito Nazar (guest): Patagonia, it's crazy. Um, I'm a very, I want to believe I'm a big fan of history, but also, yeah, I have a deep connection with the past and I think Patagonia is powerful because of our, of the aesthetics, the mountains, of course, but the history that surrounds, uh, the mountains is something that is hard to grasp and maybe to find. Uh, but of course I was born and raised there. So. I want to believe that I have a deep connection with my land. Uh, and that's why I'm very excited about this event because, um, of course, um, I want to show the world a different perspective, even, even to myself. Like I know my region climbing, ice skating, uh, skiing, but, uh, but graveling is a new thing in Chile and even more in Patagonia. [00:04:57] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. We'll get into it in a minute because I know you described the sprint loop as being one of the most spectacular rides you've ever done. But before we get into the event itself, let's just talk a little bit about you and your background and how you came to the sport of gravel cycling. [00:05:14] Tito Nazar (guest): Mm, Mm, I began doing mountaineering. Uh, there is this guy, Ulishtek, have you heard of him? Um, may he rest in peace. Uh, okay. You know, the Banff, uh, festival was in, it was still taking, it takes place in Chile. So of course, if you were a rock climber following Chris, Chris Sharma, you know, Adam Ondra now these days, uh, and eventually Ulishtek show up in one of those videos, climbing the North face of the Eiger. So I was one of those fans and I've been. I was talking this with my girlfriend. I, I think I am very obsessed with going fast and light. I never liked trekking really, which I've been a trekking guide, but it was not my thing. I was always cutting grams and stuff, ounces, you would say. But what I'm trying to say is that, uh, I got into mountaineering, then I understood there was something called trail running and I became an auto runner, I guess around Leadville, 100. I did it. I got the big buck, big buckle. I don't know how many hours you have to do it. I don't remember the hours. Um, it was the only time I trained in my life and ultra. Then I knew it took me too many years. I had like a very conventional education, private schools and Catholicism. And I had to become an engineer. Nothing of that worked. And it took me many years to understand. I have like a deep passion for ultra stuff. We'll try whatever. So one person told me that if you had a bicycle, I could go super far over 200 Ks. That might be 160 miles. So maybe two months after I bought my first road bike, I hated it, but I just used it. And have you heard of this, uh, concept crack called Brevet? Brevet? This [00:07:07] Craig Dalton (host): Yes. Yeah. In fact, we just, I just had a friend on talking about Perry Russ Paris and explaining the Brevets and that whole culture. [00:07:15] Tito Nazar (guest): You see? Okay. So I did the 200, the 300, the 400, the 600 Ks. And I ended up not liking it. It was too easy because it's just road bikes. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it was lacking to me of a real adventure because, you know, it's everything too under control. And I don't know how gravel cycling showed up and I got myself another bike. And it was a gravel bike. And before it was something here in Chile, just before it became something, I was already graveling. And just exploring and, I've begun doing everything that you were supposed to do with a mountain bike. I was doing it with the gravel because it reminded me more of having like a steel frame when we were kids, probably. So that's how it went. And then the community began to grow and [00:08:05] Craig Dalton (host): And were you, were you living in, in Santiago at then at this point, I believe you grew up in Southern Chile, but you went to Santiago for college, right? [00:08:13] Tito Nazar (guest): that's right. Uh, sadly, yes, college. And then I, I went back to home and yeah, but I, but I was running a lot. So I've been running a lot, a lot. And cycling, it was basically the same thing. And graveling became an explosion just before COVID in Chile, just before, maybe a year before, uh, graveling culture exploded. So I took my bike to the South. Um, I am from Punta Arenas, very far in Patagonia. Very far South and I was just grappling, trying to understand what this was. And, uh, of course I had the, everybody's drama, uh, what tire with, uh, suspension or suspension bike packing, not by packing gravel racing. Um, how error should I be? Yeah, but, um, yeah, after, and after COVID, I came back to Santiago [00:09:06] Craig Dalton (host): Maybe to help people understand a little bit about what graveling is like in Chile. Where did you, where did you arrive with your bicycle setup? [00:09:16] Tito Nazar (guest): when, [00:09:17] Craig Dalton (host): When, when, what type of bike did you end up? Did you buy an aero bike? Did you buy a bike packing bike? What seems to be the best for the type of terrain you were enjoying? [00:09:27] Tito Nazar (guest): well, that's going to be a complicated discussion because, um, okay, I have to give a short perspective of how gravel behaves in this lovely country of mine. Uh, we don't have the, we talked about this, right, Craig, um, our gravel is not like this thing you get to see in unbound gravel or. Some of the races where you're like flowing and aero bars and everything is so nice and smooth. We have a more aggressive gravel. It's more rugged, uh, with more bigger rocks. It is very safe, but it's just not so fast rolling. This concept is different. So usually our gravel bikes in the, in this country, we have. Wide tires, at least 38 millimeters, 38C at least. Everybody's now going over 40s and suspension may be, it might be a topic, but you know, it makes it more expensive. Um, myself, I have an, uh, a racing, uh, frame because I'm obsessed with grams. I'm a weight weenie. I'm super weight weighting. My gravel bike must be 7. 3 kilos. That's like a pro tour bike, aero pro tour bike. It's the same weight as mine. So, but it's, but I have like a super amazing, can I say the brand or no? [00:10:39] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, sure. [00:10:40] Tito Nazar (guest): I have René Hersey, René Herse. I've tested all the tires in the world and yeah, those are like by far the best. Um, there are two, you say supple, I think, absorption. My God, they're magical. So you can use, well, that, that's just my personal experiment. But, um, going back to the concept, um, I use a gravel racing bike, uh, not aero. But to ultralight, but people prefer to have more chunky tires, um, maybe heavier, but they focus, of course, more on, on comfort because that is the priority in a country such as this. [00:11:15] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. When you, when you talk about sort of gravel beginning to take off kind of just before COVID and, and then the years afterwards, were you finding other gravel cyclists? Were they starting to crop up? Did you find a way to bring that community together? [00:11:32] Tito Nazar (guest): Well, in Patagonia itself, no, that is the honest, the honest truth. We were like three guys and it is growing. I will not lie, but it's, it's slow because in places such as Patagonia, where the weather, whether it's very unpredictable, mountain biking makes more and people were doing mountain biking on gravel. You know, so now it's a matter of, you know, the, the concept has to penetrate, um, over the, the community. Santiago is faster. Everything goes faster because, you know, Santiago is a capital of, I don't know anymore, 10 million people. So that means there's just too much going on. Events, of course, just everything takes place here and then it spreads, uh, all over the country. So I think something fascinating is not really connected to this podcast, but Chile is one of the most. Connected people to cell phones in the world, like whatever you do, if you show it on Instagram, people will know you can, maybe you will be on TV, nobody will see you, but on Instagram. So I guess we are more connected through, through social media. So I can tell you how much is growing maybe in Santiago and slower in the rest of the country, but it is growing, but the rates are different. The closer you are to the capital, of course, it's faster. [00:12:51] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. And then at some point you got the bright idea to put on your first event and that was closer to Santiago, right? [00:12:59] Tito Nazar (guest): very close, like two hours and a half, and it, it was not done in Santiago because we don't really have real gravel in Santiago. So we thought, okay, where's the closest place for real gravel? And it's like, yeah, it's in a place called Navidad. The, we are separated in regions, and those region regions are separated in municipalities. I don't know if that the word. [00:13:20] Craig Dalton (host): Yep. Sure. [00:13:21] Tito Nazar (guest): the municipality of NIDA is where we take place because. We thought it was one of the best gravels we have found in the entire country, really. But it was not myself. It was, um, two friends of mine, um, that, uh, Juan and Luis, he was just here and we are partners and friends. Um, and we invented this crazy race called Gravel Coast. That was our first event almost four years ago. [00:13:48] Craig Dalton (host): And what, what's the Gravel Coast event like? [00:13:53] Tito Nazar (guest): Well, we call it, we invented it somehow inspired in unbound in what's happening in the North Amer in North America. We feel very connected, especially my friend Luon. Uh, Luis, uh, Luchon likes, he knows all the athletes of your country, what's happening there, what's happening with the bikes. He likes the technology and everything. So, and I also feel very connected with many events over there because of Lifetime company. You know, it's, you know, they, they, they have some understanding about marketing, so it hits all the way down here. So we, we try to make an, let's say an adaptation. Of what you are, what these people are building over there and maybe adapted to our reality because we don't have this once again, even though it's a great gravel quality, it's not like a super fast rolling concept. It is more, it is a, it is a real challenge to finish a gravel coast race. Don't get me wrong. Anything can do it. I mean, many people, but you have to, you have to be prepared. I mean, our 200 miles are just insane. You know, there's too much climbing. So that means you're going to be on the saddle a bunch of hours. You're going to be proud of finishing gravel coast. That's why we say [00:15:07] Craig Dalton (host): and is it, is it a 200 mile event? The Gravel Coast? [00:15:11] Tito Nazar (guest): we have last year, we had 70 Ks, a hundred, I forgot my members so weak, but 120 Ks, a two 40 Ks and a three 20 Ks, which is a, which is a 200 miles now for the final event that is taking next year, that is 2024. It's in October. That is our spring. Um, it's going to be. Um, 50 miles, a hundred miles and 200 miles. [00:15:37] Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha. Gotcha. Now let's talk about the event you're going to be kicking off in 2024. What inspired you? Yeah, the big one. What, what inspired you to take the mantle and create this event yourself? What inspired you of where you're placing it? I have so many questions about Gravel Del Fuego. [00:16:01] Tito Nazar (guest): Oh, I really love my country. Uh, especially Patagonia. Um, it's hard to explain, but okay. I'm, I'm, I'm super lucky person because my father taught me how to fish, hunt, and some scuba diving. And Tierra del Fuego Island, it is a place that everybody wishes to see. But there is no development. There is no, there's not many, unless you're like a person who likes fly fishing and can pay on a helicopter, that is the only way maybe you can access to the island. Now it's getting more popular, but 20 years ago, I mean, if you were not a gaucho, you know, these people that take care of their cattle over there, or if you were not like a fisherman or maybe crazy guy, you had no idea what, I mean, you, you knew what the island was, but. No way you will dare to dive into it. I think that thing is still happening, but I am so lucky. I know the island because of my father. He took me fly fishing all the time with a truck. Don't get me wrong, not on a helicopter. And we will just, you know, get into river rivers and he will bring his boat and we will just try to catch some salmons and trouts. And so I had that first approach. And I saw the island just like that, but then I ended up being working for a king penguin colony. I mean, not for the penguins themselves, but from the owner of the, of the park. And I began to understand that was tourism. This was like, this was the real future of the islands. And then I ended up working for some company of the government for a commercial. I can show it to you on YouTube. I look very pathetic. And believe it or not, I was the model. They call me and I was like, have you seen pictures of me? I'm not a model. They were like, no, but we need somebody adventurous, blah, blah, blah. So I saw once again, the entire island. Without this tourism vision, time passed and it took me like three years to launch this race. I was not daring. I was wondering if I had the experience, but after all the events we've done these days, I mean, accumulated until today, it... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/29159748

Fresh eyes: Jonathan Hornell-Kennedy's (Framework Bikes) unique vision of the modern gravel bike construction 12/06/2023

Fresh eyes: Jonathan Hornell-Kennedy's (Framework Bikes) unique vision of the modern gravel bike construction This week we welcome Jonathan Hornell-Kennedy from Canada's Framework Bikes. Jonathan is a relative newcomer to the world of bicycle framebuilding, but his background in manufacturing and design supporting the aerospace industry provided him with some unique skills and insights he brings to his craft. Jonathan sheds light on his entry into custom bike building, sharing the evolution of his process. He explains the meticulous method behind the creation of his unique carbon fiber tubes and aluminum lugs. We delve into what makes these bikes versatile on various terrains, and the challenges and decision-making involved in custom builds. Jonathan also touches on the struggles of establishing his brand within the competitive bike industry. The conversation rounds off with discussions about the future of Frameworks. Join us for an insightful conversation, as we delve deeper into the fascinating world of custom bike building. Framework Bikes Episode sponsor: (Use code: TheGravelRide for free HRM) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:25]Craig Dalton (Host): This week on the broadcast. I bring you Jonathan Cornell Kennedy from frameworks out of Canada. You might've heard Jonathan briefly on the podcast. When I did one of my made bicycle show recap shows. I was captivated by his designs at the show as they were relatively unique amongst the field of titanium and steel welded bicycles. I'd been familiar with lugged carbon construction from a number of other builders along the years, but I hadn't seen his particular approach. And after following him on Instagram, which I definitely recommend you do, I became a NABARD with the manufacturing process. So I was excited to have him back on board to learn a little bit more about his history. He's a relative newcomer to the world of bicycling, which I think always yields interesting and innovative approaches to things. That's builders who have been around forever. Might not care to revisit as an approach. . So. I'm excited to have this conversation before we jump in. I do need to thank this week sponsor hammer had, and the hammer had Caru to computer. Maybe you've been thinking about updating your gravel cycling GPS computer. This time of year, the hammer head crew two is the most advanced GPS cycling computer available today. With industry leading mapping navigation and routing capabilities that set it apart for other GPS options, it has free global maps with points of interest included like cafes and campsites. So you can explore with confidence and on the go flexibility. One of the things I always talk about when talking about my hammerhead crew too. Is the ongoing software updates that they ship. You never have to feel left behind from a new feature coming out in the world because the team at hammerhead are always looking to improve. The device, the climber feature is one that I always call out as it notably has this predictive path technology. Which lets you visualize for the upcoming gradient changes in real time, whether without a root loaded. That is something that I particularly lean on when I'm doing. An event in terrain that I don't. I have familiarity with, or I'm on some sort of adventure ride for me. I really just love to see what's ahead of me in the climb. So I can just think about my cadence and effort level. Et cetera. The other big update that I saw come through was around this new e-bike integration, which brings detailed battery usage data right onto this. The display. As the new owner of N E MTB, I'm excited to explore this feature. Because I do have a bit of range anxiety. So having those battery details right in the display unit. By which you can access via a specific persona on the head unit. So I can switch between things I need on an e-bike ride versus things I need on a traditional gravel ride. Anyway, I encourage you to give. The Karoo to a look right now, our listeners can get a free heart rate monitor with the purchase of our hammerhead kuru two. Just visit hammerhead.io right now and use the promo code, the gravel ride at checkout today. This is an exclusive offer for my listeners. So don't forget that promo code, the gravel ride. You'll get a free heart rate monitor with your purchase of our crew to just go to hammerhead.io today at both items to your cart and use that promo code, the gravel ride. With that business behind us, let's jump right in to my conversation with Jonathan. Jonathan. Welcome to the show. I'm excited to have this conversation after we originally connected at the maid show in Portland, Oregon. Super cool. I thought your product was one of the more. Interesting products I saw in the entire show. So I'm stoked to give the listeners a little bit more insight as to your background and what frameworks is all about. [00:04:26]Jonathan: Thanks for saying that. That's nice of you. Um, yeah, it's kind of a tired story at this point. Someone with a passion in bikes and who makes things for a living decides to combine those two of their life and see what happens. [00:04:40]Craig Dalton (Host): Jonathan, where'd you grow up and how did you discover cycling in the first place? [00:04:45]Jonathan: so I'm, uh, native Southern Ontarian, uh, up here in Canada. I was born in Toronto and have lived within a few hours of Toronto my entire life. Um, so, started biking, just, you know, when you're, Parents kind of teach you how to ride a two wheeler kind of thing in the school field. Well, I was probably like six or seven at that point, um, and we moved out of the city when I was seven and into a more, well, we were still in a town, but I would say a more suburban kind of town. So biking around the neighborhoods and going to see your friends and stuff, kind of a little bit of escaping mom and dad's supervision. Uh, and then just started kind of. Like, loosely mountain biking. I had like a giant hardtail for my whole, like, biking career from age 12 to when I left for university. Um, so, you know, go on, jump off of stuff, try and jump over logs, whatever, you know, just being a goof with buddies, and then in university, I, um, that was like, what, early 2000s, um, there was kind of like, the original fixie craze, I feel like [00:05:57]Craig Dalton (Host): It comes in waves [00:05:59]Jonathan: but, so I started riding a fixie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's cyclical, I'm sure. Um, so I started riding a fixie then to get around town, and that was the last bike I purchased before I made one for myself, I studied, uh, a somewhat esoteric field of statistics called, like, uh, financial math. So it was taught in the Department of Statistics and Actuarial Sciences at the university I went to, so that's like the people who do insurance math. Basically figuring out how much your life insurance policy should cost based on, you know, statistics and market values and things like that. So, um, yeah, so I was at school for quite a while. I, seven years, I think. Um, studying that I have a master's degree in it and then ended up doing nothing with that degree, uh, in practical use, like I should have been working as like a finance math kind of guy, you know, so didn't really [00:07:05]Craig Dalton (Host): And then you had mentioned, you know, you had that fixed gear bike that was the only one you had and the next one was one you built yourself. That's for most of us. That's quite a massive leap and journey. What was going on there? I mean, you had, you develop sort of a passion for the sport of cycling. Was it more the idea of frame building and how did you even begin to acquire the skills to manufacture your first bike? [00:07:30]Jonathan: Yeah, so that, that's maybe where the academic journey ends and then what I've done to earn a living, uh, commenced after that. Um, I, my wife and I own and operate a machine shop and, um, what we started the business with was, um, again, another esoteric thing, uh, pattern making is what it's called. And that's the, the trade that is involved with making the tools that foundries [00:07:58]Craig Dalton (Host): And how did, [00:07:59]Jonathan: castings. [00:08:00]Craig Dalton (Host): I'm curious, Jonathan. So how did, I mean, how did you even see that as an opportunity? Did either of you have, you know, ties into the manufacturing world to begin with? [00:08:10]Jonathan: Yeah, absolutely. So my dad is a mechanical engineer by education, and he owns and operates a company that, um, basically repairs, refurbishes, remakes large industrial pumps. Um So they, they oftentimes begin life as a casting, like a large chunk of, uh, iron or steel or bronze, whatever it might be. So when I was done university and kind of doing a little bit of soul searching, a friend of mine who's a few years older and was sort of, um, not thrilled with the job he had, I would say, or maybe that's not the right way to say it, but was looking for a change, um, He is, uh, he's a civil engineer by training and approached my dad cause he knew he was self employed and said, uh, Hey Pat, what do you think of like going out on my own? Got any ideas? I'm pretty handy guy. And my dad said to him, like, Hey, I think you should look into pattern making. The guys are all old. You really can't go to school to learn that stuff. It's all sort of apprenticeship based and they're kind of phasing out their businesses, you know? Um, so there could be an opportunity there. So Stefan, my friend, and I, um, I took like a night class at a local community college to learn how to do 3D modeling and was kind of pretty handy with SolidWorks. And the modern way of making patterns is to use CNC machines to carve 3D shapes, typically out of like blocks of foam or wood or, uh, tooling board, it's called, which is like a hard plastic. And those objects that you create are what the foundry uses to create their sand molds. So picture like a cast iron frying pan. The way that's made is they melt iron in a pot and they pour it into a mold that's made out of sand and the mold has the shape of the iron, uh, the cast iron frying pan inside of it. So my obligation or sort of the service that we offered was not only to produce the tooling, but I was also. You have to design it to work for the foundry. So, uh, cast iron frying pan is a relatively simple object, but we got, over the years, as my skill set grew, got involved with, um, some relatively complicated castings for, like, world leading Aerospace foundries. And, um, so yeah, Stefan and I ran the business together for about a year, year and a bit. He was living in a different, like he lived in Toronto property. We're in Hamilton, which is about an hour outside. And, um, he had, uh, his first kid in that time. And I was like super hungry to get the business going. And so we were kind of on different paces and there's a little bit of friction that resulted because of that. So we parted ways and then. We're still good friends, but, um, I kind of ran the business on my own and then my wife, Elise, came on, um, as we started to grow a bit, move facilities, and then started to expand more out of just pattern making to do, um, machining as well, which is, a lot of times, foundries have these metal castings that they produce that are relatively intricate shapes that need some more precise operations carried out on them. Um, you could, like, an example might be, like, an engine block in a car or turbocharger, like, objects that people, like, think of more readily than some other things I got involved with. So you've got this object that's relatively crude when it comes out of the foundry, and it might need a bearing put in it or threads added so you could bolt it together. So that, that's an operation that typically happens in some sort of machining setup. So we had this customer base of all these foundries that trusted us to make these relatively complicated things like patterns are, are big, like organic shapes, lots of 3D things that need to be accurate and go together and work. Um, so it was a pretty easy thing for us to say to them, Hey, you know, he trusts us to do this. Would you allow us to machine your castings for you? Like, can we quote on that work? And the idea for us there was, um, kind of more repeat business. The thing about, uh, uh, pattern tool, uh, is you only make one of them. Hopefully the customer is not coming back to you for another one right away, because the idea with a mold or a tool or something of that nature is that it costs a lot of money to make, but it allows you to make a ton of parts. Um, so think of that as like a mold for a carbon fiber frame. It's the same kind of idea. You've got this thing that costs a lot of money is really complicated, but it allows you to put, uh, a basic material into it and get [00:12:39]Craig Dalton (Host): And then you're in your example of like the engine block, they would have pulled something out of the mold that was a bit rough around the edges, maybe not as precise as it needed to be to fit. You would bring it back into your CNC capabilities and really use the tool to, to make precise edges and cuts and shapes around the basic block. [00:13:01]Jonathan: exactly. [00:13:01]Craig Dalton (Host): Gotcha. [00:13:03]Jonathan: Yeah. And like a lot of that stuff would have happened more historically in the, the cycling industry when they used a lot of investment castings for lugs and things like that, or, you know, a lot of that type of product has moved away, like, um, in favor of probably more cost competitive and superior products. Uh, but yeah, like, uh, there would have been a whole bunch of examples. I'm sure old shift levers and things like that die castings [00:13:28]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah, I remember. [00:13:29]Jonathan: um. The, you get a [00:13:31]Craig Dalton (Host): remember in the early days of mountain biking, the wave of CNC machined parts that came out, preferably color anodized that were all the rage at the time. [00:13:41]Jonathan: Yeah. [00:13:42]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah. [00:13:43]Jonathan: Yeah. So it's, so that's sort of the, the story on, and then we got involved in injection molding and doing, um, work for the government during COVID to make PCR testing consumables, uh, so that involved like some pretty complicated work in terms of reverse engineering, um, yeah, plastic components, getting a clean room set up, [00:14:05]Craig Dalton (Host): And what was that additional equipment that you invested in at the time? [00:14:09]Jonathan: Yeah. So we were, we got a grant from the government to set it up. Uh, so we had to put some capital into it for sure. That's how it worked, but you know, we felt like we're definitely doing the right thing when North America was kind of running out of those parts. The whole world was running out of them because when, when did like they ever see a demand spike like that in terms of lab consumables, right? So, uh, yeah, we got that up and running and then. worked our butts off for two years to make it all happen. And then that's kind of what I would say gave me the financial [00:14:44]Craig Dalton (Host): So that's that brings us to maybe what 2000 2022. [00:14:48]Jonathan: yeah, honestly, man, the whole pandemic is a blur in sort of timelines. Yeah, I think so. That sounds about right. Um, yeah, I would say July of 2022 is when we shipped our last part, um, to fulfill the order to the government. And, um, yeah, [00:15:06]Craig Dalton (Host): And was there a driver behind you saying like, Oh, I want to make a bike? Had you like increased your cycling during the pandemic? Yeah. [00:15:15]Jonathan: So it's another pandemic story of, I'm sure you remember trying to buy bike stuff. Um, so yeah, the, the, all along, I've been, I've always had a passion for making things, right? Like, using my hands to create an object, like I, like, when I was in school, I worked in, like, fine dining restaurants, like, 40 hours a week. That was kind of my first form of, you know, trading my time for money in terms of making things. Uh, so the, the shop that I've built up over the years, I've got some really nice equipment. I've paid for it all out of cash flow by doing other people's work. And I've always wanted a product line of my own stuff. Um, not that I don't like working with other people and you're certainly exposed to a lot of really interesting and challenging problems to solve when other people are bringing you their stuff. But it's a bit of a, like, you know, everybody's got masters, even when I started making my own product, I've got to sell it now. So that's a whole other thing. But, um, yeah, it's a bit of a, always wanted to make something and I've always been into bikes. So that's why I was saying earlier, kind of combine those two things. And the big push was, um, yeah, just not being able to buy a new bike during the pandemic. I was riding [00:16:28]Craig Dalton (Host): and given the equipment that you had in hand at that time, can you describe the bike that you were able to make? [00:16:35]Jonathan: yeah, well, uh, I had originally thought like I'm watching Cobra frameworks as Or yeah, Cobra frame buildings, YouTube channel, how to weld a bike. And I ordered a bunch of chromoly tubing. I've got welding equipment here and milling machines. So I was like, I'm going to just make myself a bike and that's it, right? Like that's going to be, it'll be very, it'll be a piece of junk because I'm not that good at welding and I've never done one before, but the, it'll be the thing that I made and I'm riding it. And that's cool. Um, and then the tube shot sat on the shelf for like two years. Because it's like, it's not, that's not what I do, right? That's not my, it felt like too fussy. I was going to have to be like sitting at a welding table, filing things. So the bike that I decided to make was, um, a format that is gaining popularity right now with the advent of 3d printing, which is a lugged. construction frame where the lugs are alloy and I'm using carbon fiber tubes. So, um, I had actually originally, like I'm really good at 3d modeling. That's one of my main skill sets. So designing the bike took like a day, less than that. And then I was going to have the lugs printed, like 3d printed, like everyone else is doing. It's a pretty, um, in comparison to CNC machine shops that could produce a part like that. In terms of intricacy, it's relatively easy to find vendors that do 3D printing as a job shopping service. Like, that's kind of the main [00:18:03]Craig Dalton (Host): And are those, are those, uh, 3d printing? Are they printing in titanium or aluminum or both? Okay. [00:18:10]Jonathan: both, there's stainless steels, there's all sorts of alloys coming out, there's different forms of printing. And then we, because we do aerospace work, like we had our aerospace designation working with foundries and machine shops that do that type of stuff. Um, we're involved with some of the like, Canadian leaders in terms of operating that equipment and having those processes validated. So I sent them to the engineers and they said you're not actually going to ride that thing. Are you? I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, yeah, I'm going to write it. And like, well, I don't know if we would like, what do you mean? And that's when I started to like do a bit more research into, um, the metallurgy of 3d prints and would have needed to beef them up more than I thought to get it to work. But the main thing that... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28949488

American-Made Performance Apparel: The Pinebury story with Kyle Rancourt 11/28/2023

American-Made Performance Apparel: The Pinebury story with Kyle Rancourt Welcome to another episode of The Gravel Ride Podcast 🎙️. Today, our guest is Kyle Rancourt from Pinebury Clothing, a quality-focused, US-manufactured cycling 🚴‍♀️ apparel brand. Kyle takes us through his journey into the cycling industry 🛠️ and Pinebury's specific focus on Merino wool for its inherent performance benefits. He walks us through his vision, design and the critical role manufacturing in the US plays in their brand's commitment to quality, and sustainability 🌎. One thing is for sure after this conversation, Pinebury's Nuyarn performance wool isn't the wool of yester-year! Give a listen to learn more 🎧. Website Episode sponsor: Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:28]Craig Dalton (host): This week on the show. I welcome Kyle rang court from pine Berry clothing. Onto the show. Kyle and I first got connected at the Maine bicycle show in Portland, Oregon, and I was super excited to talk to them about the new type of wool he's using in conducting this clothing line. And I was incredibly excited to learn that all of their manufacturing for pine Barre happens in the United States. After this conversation, you'll learn a little bit more about his history and his family's history in manufacturing in the United States. So I hope you give them a [email protected]. Before I jump in. If you're a long time listener, you might know I've been drinking. One for over five years, I started drinking age one. One daily after my chemotherapy treatment for Hodgkin's lymphoma. It feels like ages ago, I was looking for something to support my overall health and nutritional needs. And I stumbled upon ag one that's because ag. One is a foundational nutritional supplement that supports one's body's universal needs. Like gut optimization, stress management and immune support. Since 2010 ag one has led the future of foundational nutrition. Continually refining their formula to create a smarter better way to elevate your baseline health. So suffice it to say I've recommended AIG. To my friends and family for many years. And for those of you who are competitive athletes. No fear. AIG one is also and S F certified for sport it's formulated based on the latest science. And maintains the highest quality standards. If you want to take ownership of your health, it all starts with a G. try AIG one and get a free one year supply of a vitamin D three K two and five free AIG one travel packs with your first purchase. Simply go to drink. Dot com slash the gravel ride. That's drink AIG one.com/the gravel ride. To check it out today. Would that business behind us, let's jump right in to my conversation with Kyle. Hey, Kyle, welcome to the show. [00:02:41]Kyle Rancourt: Hey, thanks for having me. Happy to be here. [00:02:44]Craig Dalton (host): I feel like this is the second week in the row where I have to say to the guests, like, sorry for the trials and tribulations of getting you on. We've had some fits and starts trying to record this, but we're finally getting it done. [00:02:54]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, that's that's the important thing is we're here now. So glad to be here. [00:02:59]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I can't wait to, to sort of explore your story a little bit. We met at the maid bike show in Portland, Oregon, where you were there representing your brand Pineberry. Um, with jerseys and arm warmers and socks, but there's so much to the story as I got to know you a little bit in Portland, I'd love to just step back and just get to know you a little bit and sort of follow your journey into cycling first and then into manufacturing and creating this brand. [00:03:28]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, actually it's funny you bring up the maid show I got an email today from the organizers of maid that they're it's on again for next year and They're already planning it and I reserved my booth. So Uh, hopefully i'll see you there again excited to to be part of it. [00:03:45]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. It was such a. Just a great show. I mean, as someone who's been to like Interbike and CABDA and some of these old industry shows and then the North American Handmade Bike Show, this was just a nice amalgamation of them all. It was small and intimate. And I feel like around every single corner of that show, I was finding brands that I loved or wanted to talk to the founders. So much fun. Highly recommend it. And hopefully I'll be back there again myself. [00:04:12]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, I totally agree. It was a great experience [00:04:15]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. So tell me about where did you grow up and how did you find the bike originally? [00:04:20]Kyle Rancourt: I grew up in Lewiston, Maine, which is, um, about 30 miles north of Portland, Maine. Uh, we're, we're an interior city, an inland city, so we're not on the coast. Um, there's... Uh, really great ice hockey heritage here. Um, some, some great, you know, hockey players have come from this area. And, uh, so I grew up on skates. Uh, that was, that's sort of my, was my, my first love as an athlete was, was skating and playing ice hockey. Um, and I think, you know, those experiences in Maine have definitely, uh, informed my, um, and my, my experiences as an athlete going forward. [00:05:15]Craig Dalton (host): And did you, did you continue playing hockey through college? [00:05:18]Kyle Rancourt: No, I played a little bit of club hockey in college. Um, but no, pretty much stopped after, after my senior year of high school or freshman year of college. Um, and you asked how I, I got into cycling. So. It was actually through triathlon. So, um, in college, I, you know, wanted to get back in shape. I started running and swimming, um, just for exercise. And then after college, um, I continued and I had a coworker who was into triathlon and suggested I try one. He, are you familiar with the Xterra? Triathlon it's like the off road triathlon. So he was doing one of these. I think it was in New Hampshire it was one summer and He suggested I join him and I really I hadn't ridden a bike since I was a kid probably I was about I was maybe 24 or 25 at the time. So it'd been a long time, you know I grew up obviously riding bikes in the neighborhood and in mountain biking with friends. I always had a mountain bike, but I think organized team sports took over in high school and, uh, stopped riding my bike. So I bought a used mountain bike from a friend and, uh, started riding with the local bike shop. I went in to have it tuned up and they told me they had a group ride every Wednesday. And so I went to the It was a mountain bike group ride and I was just terrible. I was such a fish out of water. I remember we, we were riding up this trail, this single track, and there was a log down in, in, uh, over like across the trail and I got off my, I saw the other guys like hopping over it. And I got off my bike and, and walked over it. And I, a guy next to me was like, Oh, this is all you have to do. Just ride up to it and, you know, lift up on the handlebars and then, you know, pick your feet up to kick your rear wheel over and that's it. And I was like, Oh my God. I was like, what did I get myself into? He made it sound so easy, but in the moment it seemed impossible. Um, but I kept at it. And, uh, fell in love with the sport. I did some triathlons. I, uh, that XTERRA triathlon was the first one. And then I, um, I did a couple like sprint and Olympic distance road triathlons after that. And, and very quickly realized that I not only was better at cycling than I was at running and swimming, but I actually liked it a lot more as well. And so I feel like this is a common story, but it wasn't, it wasn't very long before I dropped the running and swimming act and became a [00:08:05]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. [00:08:06]Kyle Rancourt: full [00:08:06]Craig Dalton (host): Certainly my experience as well. Much easier to drop running and swimming than it is cycling. [00:08:11]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, the rest is history. Um, I've been [00:08:16]Craig Dalton (host): Were you back in Lewis, in Lewiston at that point? [00:08:18]Kyle Rancourt: yeah, I moved back home, started to join the family business. [00:08:23]Craig Dalton (host): Interesting. And I know we want to get into this. So what is that family business? [00:08:28]Kyle Rancourt: Uh, we are footwear manufacturers. We make shoes here in Lewiston. We have, we have a factory that, that we've had here for over 50 years and we have our own brand we sell online. Um, we also sell to retail stores all around the world. And, um, we're a private label manufacturer, so we make footwear for other brands as well. So, yeah, lots of big brands you've, you've definitely heard of, and, and if you've worn some of their Made in USA, uh, lines of shoes, it's... There's a good chance we made them. The Rancourt's of Lewiston, Maine made them. [00:09:05]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. What, say, drop the name again of the brand? [00:09:08]Kyle Rancourt: It's called Rancourt and Company. [00:09:11]Craig Dalton (host): Okay. And are they making, um, like leather boots? Is that the type of [00:09:16]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, leather, leather dress and casual shoes, you know, everything from loafers and boat shoes to, to boots. You know, we even make winter boots with shearling lining and, you know, rugged vibram soles. Um, but definitely in, in the lifestyle lane, not like work boots or anything like that. [00:09:36]Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha. So interesting. So the facilities right there in Maine, how many people does it employ? [00:09:42]Kyle Rancourt: Uh, we employ about 50 people. So there are approximately 40 shoemakers, um, in the factory making shoes every day. [00:09:53]Craig Dalton (host): That's fascinating. And I'm imagining, so you've probably got a sort of a leather cut and sew kind of mechanism there. And then you've also got to make the sole. There's probably a bunch of components to that manufacturing process. [00:10:06]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, there's like, there's over a hundred steps in the process. Making shoes is, uh, is more complicated than, than people think. But yeah, there's, there's a lot of different steps. So we do everything from, from start to finish right in that factory. [00:10:21]Craig Dalton (host): It was super interesting. Um, I'll put a link to that brand in the show notes. I'm sure people will be interested to seeing what shoes come out of that factory. And now I'm scratching my head because I do have a couple of like American made boots and wondering if they came out of that factory. [00:10:38]Kyle Rancourt: it's possible. It's a good chance. [00:10:41]Craig Dalton (host): All right. Well, we're not here to talk about shoes. We're here to talk about. Your clothing brand. So why don't we talk about like, what was the journey like talk about the Pineberry brand? What led you to creating it? And then I've got a ton of questions about the product and the type of material you're using, et cetera. [00:10:59]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah. Um, so like I said, I, about... 14 years ago, I is when I would identify as a cyclist. I began identifying as a cyclist and fell in love with the sport and became a huge part of my life. Um, I, I was racing on the road for many years and, you know, continue doing triathlons from here and there. And, but really, I would say, um, you know, When the pandemic started in 2020, um, it became a much bigger part of my life. I, uh, was, I had dabbled in gravel cycling for a long time. You know, I raced, my first bike race I ever did other than a triathlon was a cyclocross race. So I had always been in that sort of off road space or culture. Um, and so, you know, we would, it was, I remember in 2013, 2014, like we didn't even have a word called gravel cycling. We would just go ride dirt roads with our cyclocross bikes, you know? Um, and, but as the gravel thing, the gravel boom grew and the, with the pandemic, spending more time at home and kind of having more free time. Um, I started doing these really long gravel rides with friends and which led to, you know, signing up for. Unbound 200. And you can imagine, I'm sure, you know, all the training that goes into trying to, trying to finish one of those. So cycling just became this huge part of my life. And I started thinking more and more about the apparel that I was wearing, you know, the gear that I was buying and wearing, um, and how it performed and, and where it was made and, you know, what. what was ideal, I think, for, for me as a cyclist. And, um, that's where the, that's the seed was planted that I wanted to try something different and, and follow this passion into the cycling industry. And I had always loved, uh, Merino wool, the, the story, the feel of it, the performance, you know, the performance aspect of it. Um, How, you know, it dries so quickly, and even though it's super light, it still can be extremely warm, the warmth to weight ratio is pretty much unmatched. Um, when it's wet, it continues to keep you warm, you know, there's, it's, it's really like this magical fiber. [00:13:46]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, it really is. I think I got my first exposure to Merino outside of cycling. It was sort of Envogue for hiking and you know, REI or someone might have had Merino wool long underwear And I remember doing some hiking trips and thinking like oh, this is great but when I think about where I thought about at the time wool for cycling It was a hundred percent always in the retro Jersey. I remember I had one from Pearl Izumi and one from a company that my wife worked for. And it was like an old school aesthetic, old wool Jersey. And it reminded me of like the Randonneur culture. And to your point, like it, it had these amazing attributes. But it never felt like me as a cyclist, like I might even wear it as more as a casual sweater than I ever did on the bike that the, those garments I was describing. But I know now that wool has so many different attributes depending on how it's made. So I'm interjecting my own thoughts, but love to hear you continue your journey of like, okay, you've kind of stumbled upon wool as being this magic fabric, but how do you make it? Modern and and, you know, make the right aesthetic for gravel cyclists. [00:15:01]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, like you, you know, to your point, I, I had only used it for like hiking and skiing, you know, uh, I didn't mention that earlier, but, um, you know, in addition to, to my, Winter, winter sport, hockey career. I also am an avid skier and have been my whole life whenever I wasn't, when I was growing up, whenever I wasn't playing hockey, I was skiing. It was like, I was doing those two things. I was always on ice or snow. I, to this day, I absolutely love winter. I look forward to it. I love ice and snow and, and you know, the opportunities that it provides for, for outdoor activities. Um, so. You know, it was a part of my hockey and merino wool was a part of my hockey and skiing kit, you know, as base layers or long underwear, things like that. So I was always aware of it. And then I started to see in the market, um, some cycling brands were making base layers or accessories out of merino wool and maybe a jersey or two, right? Like I bought a jersey. I bought a merino jersey from Bontrager years ago. I bought a couple from this Italian brand that I was into and I I thought two things. One, I liked what they were doing, but I felt like I could do it better, and nobody was specializing in it. That was the key thing is that, um, there are merino specialty companies, but not in the cycling space. And so the brands that were making merino wool, um, pieces for their cycling lines, it always felt a little bit like an afterthought. Or like you mentioned, it was sort of this like retro throwback. piece, you know, that, like that Bontrager jersey I bought years ago was very much in, in, you know, in that vein. It was, it was like this. Old school, you know, sort of heavy wool had, um, these retro elements to it. It didn't, it, it felt, yeah, it didn't feel like it was this, this core piece that they were, you know, trying to, trying to put out there. Um, so when I, when I made, finally made a decision to do this, I started researching Marino wool, yarn, and fabric, and I very quickly came across. This company based in New Zealand, they're called, uh, TMC, the Merino company. And they have a patented technology, uh, called New Yarn. It's a patented yarn spinning technology. And, um, essentially, they're able to spin Merino fibers without twisting them. Conventional merino, uh, core spun and ring spun merino. When, when those fibers get spun, they get twisted and the twisting, it creates a rope like structure. So it takes out, to put it in the most basic terms, it takes out the volume and the elasticity. So you're inhibiting the natural benefits of merino wool. So with this new yarn technology, they're, they're able to create. A merino wool yarn and fabric that performs as closely to merino wool in nature as possible. So they're not inhibiting any of the benefits. And what you get in the end is a laundry list of, of benefits over conventional merino. But the most important ones are, it's nine times more durable than conventional merino. It's um, has 85 percent more elasticity, which you can imagine for a cycling jersey is incredibly important. So we make a cycling jersey that's really comfortable in form fitting, and it has no Lycra in it whatsoever. It's all, um, mechanical stretch from, from these Merino fibers. Um, and [00:18:58]Craig Dalton (host): when I put it on, I mean, everybody's used to these Lycra jerseys that kind of stretch over your arms and body. Does it sort of have a semblance of that stretch and give? [00:19:06]Kyle Rancourt: it does. Yeah, very much. So it, I think. most people wouldn't even notice the difference in terms of the fit. And, and the benefits are, um, Lycra tends to break down faster than other fibers, and it doesn't deal with moisture very well. So it doesn't dry very fast. It doesn't wick very well. So you take out You take lycra out of the equation and you get some performance benefits there. So I fell in love with this, this new yarn merino and, um, decided to, to dedicate this, this new project to it. So, um, most of our pieces, all of our apparel and, uh, is made from new yarn, new yarn merino wool fabric now. [00:19:52]Craig Dalton (host): So you found the yarn and the material. There's a big kind of process between that and actually having a finished garment and designing it. Did you have any experience in that realm? Or was it a lot of trial and error with the sewers to kind of get the fit you were looking for? [00:20:09]Kyle Rancourt: Yeah, so I have a lot of product development experience and design experience, but only in footwear. So that was, um, there was a sharp learning curve for me, for sure. I, I would say over somebody with no experience, I definitely had a huge advantage having the background that I do in shoes and footwear, um, in getting this thing off the ground. But at the same time, uh, the apparel business and making apparel clear, you know, has its own intricacies and, uh, this knowledge that this deep knowledge that you, that you need to acquire, I think, to be able to do something like this. The one of the, after finding, yeah, go ahead. [00:20:59]Craig Dalton (host): yeah, just to say, I think one of the wonderful things about sewing is you can, you... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28826443

Open Range 200k with Eric Sutter: Exploring South Central Kansas. 11/21/2023

Open Range 200k with Eric Sutter: Exploring South Central Kansas. This week we are joined by Eric Sutter, race director and founder of the Open Range 200k in Kansas. Learn Eric’s unexpected journey to becoming a race director and why the southern region of Kansas deserves its own exploration. Episode sponsor: Hammerhead Karoo 2 (use promo code: TheGravelRide for free HRM) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm welcoming Eric Sutter. He's the race director and founder of open range gravel in Kansas . The event takes place in April every year and is going on to its seventh edition in 2024. I'm going to flag this right away. Registrations opening this coming weekend. November 25th after Thanksgiving. So make sure to check it out. If you're interested after hearing. Eric's journey to becoming a gravel race organizer. It's quite a fascinating journey. It's not as someone who started. Riding gravel bikes ages ago. He picked it up after coming into the world of endurance athletics via kayaking. Of all things. I hope you enjoy the conversation, but before we dive in, I do need to thank this week sponsor, hammerhead and the hammerhead crew to. Computer. It's been a minute since I've spoken about the hammerhead crew to computer. It's my daily computer on my gravel bike. I enjoy it. A whole hell of a lot. If you'll pardon my French. It's one of those devices that continues to grow and evolve over time. And I think that's what I like so much about the hammerhead device. I'm getting a software update every few weeks and sometimes it's spot on and something I'm using. And sometimes it's something that I don't know, I need to use. Or would even want to use. For example, it was probably three or four months ago. I got an update around accommodating e-bike features. And since I wasn't an e-bike rider. I didn't have a lot of need for it, but lo and behold, and this is my dirty little secret. I am now the owner of a mountain bike. So I'm excited to explore the features and functionality that I can bring to the crew too. Just to understand battery life of my motor and my battery and make sure I don't get lost out there without the power to come home. Don't worry. I'm still a fan of peddling my bike. I just thought it would be a lot of fun. Getting an E mountain bike. The other thing, as you know, if you've heard me talk about the hammerhead career to you before. I love the elevation and climb feature that they rolled out quite some time ago with the climbing feature, you can see what's ahead of you in any climb that you're approaching, whether you have a map loaded or not. For me, it's really helpful if I'm a new terrain, just understanding am I in for a long grind or is this a shorter climb where I can really push. As we're coming into winter, it's important that the crew too has both touchscreen capabilities. But also physical buttons. So if you've got some heavy duty gloves on, you can still manipulate the device and go to all the screens. You need. Right now our listeners can get a free heart rate monitor with the purchase of our hammerhead crew to simply visit hammerhead.io right now and use the promo code. The gravel ride at checkout. To get yours today. This is an exclusive offer. So don't forget that promo code, the gravel ride. You'll get that free heart rate monitor with the purchase of your career to go to hammerhead.io today. Add both items to your cart and use the promo code, the gravel ride. Would that business behind us let's get right into my conversation with Eric. [00:03:39]Craig Dalton (host): Eric, welcome to the show. Thanks, Craig. Thanks for having me on. I didn't think this was a long time coming, but as we just remembered, this is about three and a half years in the making since our first email exchange. [00:03:52]Eric Sutter: That's right. Yeah. We, uh, we sent a couple of emails back and forth and then I think life just happened and, you know, stuff gets, uh, gets passed on and, and, uh, but it's good to, it's good to be here. Good to finally be on and, uh, and get to talk with you and your, your listeners. [00:04:05]Craig Dalton (host): Right on. Yeah. Shout out to Wade for reconnecting us. Telling me a little bit about your story, which I see you gave me in your 2020 email. So I'm excited to talk about both the OpenRange 200k, but also I think it's important when we talk about events and event organizing, just to hear a little bit about your backstory. So to set the stage, why don't you just let the listener know, where'd you grow up? What'd you do as a kid? How'd you get into endurance athletics? I know there's a lot to this story, so we can take it [00:04:33]Eric Sutter: slowly, bit by bit. Yeah. And feel free to interrupt me at any point to, to dive in more. Um, so I, I grew up in Pratt. Um, it's about a, uh, an hour and a half West of Wichita, which most people were probably familiar with the general area of where Wichita is, uh, in, in South central Kansas. Um, it's a town of about 6, 000 and, um, just a small. Independent, isolated community, um, and so in high school, uh, played sports, played, uh, baseball and football and wrestled. And then, um, yeah, uh, went from there, went to college at Kansas State. Um, I did Army ROTC. And so I knew, I knew at that point, like, going into the Army is what I wanted to do. And, uh, and so did that commissioned, um, and actually, uh, went into aviation. So flew, um, and still currently fly helicopters, uh, for the army. Um, and [00:05:25]Craig Dalton (host): did that initially take you outside of Kansas when you first [00:05:28]Eric Sutter: deployed? Yeah, it did. So, um, and, and I really had, had only lived in the Midwest, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma growing up. And so, uh, my first, uh, first kind of visit outside besides just. You know, uh, having vacation somewhere was, yeah, down to Southern Alabama, yeah, which was kind of a culture shock. So, um, went down there for, for flight training and then, um, I lived in, uh, Tennessee, Kentucky area for, uh, for most of my active duty, duty years. [00:05:57]Craig Dalton (host): Okay. Yeah. I mean, I imagine most of us who haven't been in the military have an understanding that there's a physical fitness component of it. Do you, did the soldiers tend to recreate athletically? Did you tend to? Yeah, [00:06:10]Eric Sutter: yeah, definitely. So for, for aviation, uh, ultimate frisbee is kind of a, the, uh, the sport of choice. Um, okay. We play. So, uh, you know, and some people have like, you know, are, are doing marathons and stuff like that. But, um, you know, and I, I, I tried to keep, keep in shape, uh, it's always been important for me. So, you know, trying to do, um, you know, we have our, our physical fitness tests and everything like that. So, uh, try to be in, in this. [00:06:36]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, so it sounds like probably a little bit of running here and there. Oh yeah, definitely. [00:06:40]Eric Sutter: Ultimate frisbee. [00:06:41]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Where else did the military journey take you? [00:06:46]Eric Sutter: So yeah so, um, you know, Tennessee and Kentucky is where I was stationed, uh, and then did some deployments. So, uh, deployed to Iraq in uh, 2005, 2006. Then went to Afghanistan in 2014, and then another deployment to Kuwait in 2017, 2018. Okay. So yeah. [00:07:02]Craig Dalton (host): And then. Yeah. Go ahead. Then you end up back [00:07:05]Eric Sutter: in Kansas. Yeah. So then, uh, so then ended up back in Kansas and kind of in the middle of that went off active duty and joined the National Guard and in reserves. And so now I'm a reserve pilot. [00:07:15]Craig Dalton (host): Okay, great. Well, first off, thank you for your service. Yeah. And it sounds like along the way you were sort of, as many of us do in our twenties and thirties, kind of Dipping a toe in the water into different sports. Yeah. So what [00:07:29]Eric Sutter: were you doing along the way? Yeah, so Really is when I came off active duty and we moved back to Kansas City. I was looking for something to stay active and I watched the news one night and they were showing these Kayakers that were going across the state of Missouri and I looked at my wife. I was like that that sounds kind of neat You know, I think I think I'd like to do that and again, looking for something to stay active. I was, I was playing, um, uh, ultimate Frisbee with, uh, with a local little club, but I wanted something a little bit more to, to, to, um, really stay, stay involved in something to stay active. So the first year [00:08:06]Craig Dalton (host): of waterways, did you have access to, to kind of learn the sport of kayaking? [00:08:09]Eric Sutter: Yeah. So, um, we've got a couple of lakes around. Um, and so Uh, we'll, uh, we'll do that. And there was a club that, that would meet up. And so I, you know, that's the great thing with like Facebook and, and things like that. It's finding these little clubs and organizations. And so, uh, yeah, I met up, I found a race that was happening. Um, oh man, going back, just thinking about this, like the first race, I think it was 12 miles and it was kind of a show and go. No, you know, no awards or anything like that. Just, you know, bring your boat and let's go, go race them. I had no clue what I was doing. I had no [00:08:47]Craig Dalton (host): idea how long a 12 mile kayak race would take someone. Um, [00:08:51]Eric Sutter: so generally, uh, you know, in our, our kayaks, you should be able to do about, well, five miles an hour. Um, is, is it kind of a moderate to fast pace? Um, seven miles an hour, you're, you're, you're looking at, um, so especially on flat water. Uh, so yeah, so a 12 mile would be, yeah, it'd be about two hours. Gotcha. [00:09:15]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I've done a little bit of paddling and there's definitely an analogy to pedaling in just in terms of the cadence of your arms and your body and that repetitive motion that every time I've rode or paddled, like it does appeal to me much in the same way riding a bike appeals to [00:09:29]Eric Sutter: me. Right. Yeah. And it's kind of the same thing, you know, you can go to a certain level of exertion, um, and then like your gains just don't go much higher for the amount of energy it takes to go faster. You just hit that, that drag, uh, coefficient and it's, uh, but yeah. [00:09:47]Craig Dalton (host): So it sounds like you got sucked into the sport of kayaking at that point. I [00:09:51]Eric Sutter: did. Yeah. Uh, like I said, the first time it was, I was terrible. Uh, I didn't have any technique. I didn't know what I was doing. Uh, got out there, had this boat that was like 60 pounds, just this heavy plastic boat, um, with a paddle that, you know, was not efficient in the water at all. Um, but what I found was like, the people there were awesome. They were just, you know, they didn't give me a hard time for having a shoot. Plastic, you know, boat or anything like that. And they're all in these, as you'd know, in California, like the surf skis, I mean, these 18, 20 foot long, you know, um, 22 inch wide, uh, sit on top kayaks. And, um, and they just, like I said, they just. And so, but again, what I kind of, what I learned was that, you know, these people are just really good people, um, really great people. And I just, that's, that's probably more of what sucked me into it was just these, these awesome people that I was, I was getting to meet and everything. So, and, and the benefit of staying, staying active. Yeah. [00:10:50]Craig Dalton (host): You know, it's so interesting with endurance athletic and particularly like the more extreme ones, like. Ultra running or something like that. The communities are just like where, what you want, show up, show up with a good attitude. Let's all get this done. And it is so refreshing [00:11:05]Eric Sutter: and inviting. It is. It is. Yeah. I can't say enough. And those, those people still good friends with, with several of them that I've met that first, that first race. And this was 10, 10, 12 years ago now. [00:11:17]Craig Dalton (host): So, so tell me about this event across Missouri. One, I have to ask what Waterway goes all the way across Missouri. So [00:11:24]Eric Sutter: it's the and two, how long is it? Yeah, so it's the, uh, it's the Missouri River. Uh, you start in Kansas City and it, uh, it's a 340 mile race. Um, and that generally takes the fastest, can do it in, um, the mid 30 hours, 36, 35 hours, I think is the. The fastest time, uh, and you benefiting [00:11:46]Craig Dalton (host): from a bit of current a little [00:11:47]Eric Sutter: bit so you can get two, two to three mile an hour, uh, add on to your, your flat water speed at that point. And it, and it varies in different places, um, where other, um, other waterways come in, you know, other, other rivers will, will meet the Missouri, you kind of get a boost and whatnot. So as you get closer to St. Louis, uh, you get a little bit faster. Okay. [00:12:11]Craig Dalton (host): And, you know, with a 35 hour race for the fastest people in the world, you know, many are going 40, 50 hours. I imagine. Are you, what does it look like stopping and refueling? How does that work in a kayak event? Yeah. So [00:12:23]Eric Sutter: every, I'd say. At least every 50 miles is a, is a ramp, a boat ramp on the Missouri river. And so you, um, you have a ground crew and they meet you at each place and they've got, you know, all your, it depends on how you set them up. I mean, mine was my parents. Um, and so I had set up bags and resupply and stuff like that. And they would have some extra water bladders. And so I'd swap, swap out water bladders and swap out, um, you know, my nutrition and put it in a little cooler behind my, my seat and then, uh, and then go on. And so. Yeah, it's, I did it three years, uh, the first year I, I, I was, uh, I was in an outrigger and I DNF'd, uh, that year I made about a hundred and... I think 130 miles and, um, I just had a tremendous, uh, back pain and, um, and just wasn't, wasn't going to work to, to go on. And so I kind of came back after that and figured out, okay, I want to do this a little bit different. So I got a canoe, uh, that was really light, uh, carbon, uh, or I'm sorry, Kevlar, um, Kevlar fiber canoe and did that the second, uh, my second event. Um, And then, um, and the third time I got to a surf ski and did it in a surf ski. Okay. And so that was, was a lot of fun and, uh, and it goes a lot, a lot faster. [00:13:42]Craig Dalton (host): Well, listener will have to forgive me in this detour down to kind of racing, but I just, I just find it fascinating. [00:13:49]Eric Sutter: Well, and it's, you know, it's interesting, uh, being a race director now, like a lot of the things that I. Uh, I, I learned it's from, you know, it's from the kayak world and go into different kayak races, uh, things I wanted to do and things I, you know, I wanted to make sure that we, we didn't do. And so, um, so yeah, it's, it, it played a role into the creation of. And of what I do and the race. [00:14:14]Craig Dalton (host): Interesting. So at some point, do you wind down your kayaking career, or are you [00:14:19]Eric Sutter: still doing that? No, I, I wound it down. Um, I think I own, I own a, a paddle still and a life jacket, but I don't have any boats anymore. Um, and so I tried doing both for awhile and I just found, like, I wasn't, I wasn't doing anything in the kayaking side. Um, and the long distance kayaking. It really takes a toll on your ground crew and my parents don't live local. Um, and I was, I was using my, my wife's father. Um, and they're just, you know, they're, they're getting older and it's just, it wasn't fair to them to, uh, have to, uh, have them help me out. And, and, um, and my parents would help on the MR 340 that I went across Missouri. And, uh, yeah, it was just getting to be to where that long distance was, was. Kind of a struggle for, for getting a crew to help me out. Yeah, it makes [00:15:09]Craig Dalton (host): sense at this point in the podcast. I don't think we've mentioned a bicycle once. When did bicycles, when did bicycles and gravel riding come into your [00:15:19]Eric Sutter: life? Yeah. So that's an interesting story too. Like you said, we got all these different little, uh, uh, tidbits that, that, uh, spider webs or however you want to call them. Um, but, uh, in 20. See, in 2017, I was getting ready for a deployment to Kuwait. Um, I, I, I knew I wasn't gonna be able to kayak in Kuwait and I was kind of looking for another challenge and I started getting into running. I did a half marathon in April, uh, of that year and, uh, thought, well, this is, you know, I really liked it. And, and equipment wise, you know, running just requires your shoes. And, um, and so I thought this was. This would be kind of a neat, uh, neat sport to get into. Uh, and I think it was May, May or June of that year. Um, I was running and injured my knee and I, I don't know what happened. I had an MRI done on it. Uh, it was kind of inconclusive, but it was enough to where, um, I knew that running was now not, not a good choice for me to continue on doing if I wanted to walk, uh, later, so. Uh, so I kind of hung that up and then as I got into Kuwait, uh, got involved with a site, they had a cycling class there. So I got involved with, with cycling, um, overseas and, uh, I've had some friends that did, um, dirty Kansas at the time and, um, talked with them. And I kind of looked and I was like, man, this, this, this looks like fun. Like this could be the sport I get into next and didn't need necessarily didn't need a ground crew to. Uh, to shuttle my, uh, nutrition from one spot to another. I can carry it on me or on the bike or have a, you know, aid station. And so, uh, so then I just kind of got the bug and got interested in looking at different gravel races and, and I knew. I knew based on just a little bit of watching and the friends that I knew that did gravel, um, like my personality wasn't a road, road type, um, you know, it wasn't necessarily mountain bike type, but like the gravel seemed to resonate with, with my personality and the stuff I had done before with the kayaking. [00:17:22]Craig Dalton (host): Were you able to acquire a bike while you were in Kuwait or did you have to wait till you came [00:17:26]Eric Sutter: back home? Yeah. So in Kuwait, um, they have a program over there where. Uh, we could rent a bike over there. Um, they were nothing, they were nothing special. They were Mongoose, um, you know, Walmart, uh, kind of mountain bikes, full suspension, you know, but it was something and it, uh, at least got me back into cycling. Uh, and I wrote that thing, I mean, I probably wrote it more than anyone else, uh, around there. I wrote it when it was 120 degrees out and, uh, and whatnot. Um, and it was kind of interesting because as the idea for, for open range was, was kind of festering in my head. Um, and I knew it was sandy out in, in, uh, around Pratt. Um, of course, I'm in Kuwait, which is a big desert. So I would test the bike on different types of sand there and like, okay, yeah, you can do this. And so, yeah, it was, uh, it's kind of an interesting go with that. But yeah, they do have bikes over there and was able to get miles in there. [00:18:26]Craig Dalton (host): When you came back to the States, did you get your first proper [00:18:29]Eric Sutter: gravel bike? I did. And in fact, I ordered it while I was in... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28739883

Uncovering the Dust Bowl 100: Exploring Indiana's gravel with Mark O'Leary 11/14/2023

Uncovering the Dust Bowl 100: Exploring Indiana's gravel with Mark O'Leary This week on the pod we welcome Mark O'Leary, founder of Dust Bowl 100 event in Indiana. Learn the backstory and inspiration of the Dust Bowl 100 - a mix of historic landscapes and a balance of festivity and welcoming avenue for fresh gravel riders. Participants are welcomed with a fast and dynamic race course followed by delicious food, live music, and bike aid stations. Expanding rapidly, Dust Bowl 100 aims for nationwide participation with registrations opening January 1st. Website: Instagram: Facebook: Episode Sponsor: (code: TheGravelRide for 15% off) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:28]Craig Dalton (host): This week on the podcast. We welcome Marco Leary from the dust bowl. 100 in the Indiana. Got a funny story. One of my oldest cycling buddies, John Grantland. Texted me and asked me if I had ever heard of the Dustbowl 100. At event he'd done before that he had a blast at, I said, no, I hadn't heard of it. As I started digging in, I started to understand this is a really great event in Indiana. So I was super stoked to get mark on board to talk about the event. Super nice guy looks like he creates a really fun event with, um, dynamic and fundraising. So all those great to hear about new gravel and new parts of the country. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Before we jump in, I did want to apologize for the month long break, unexpected break that I took in publishing. It was kind of a combination of things in my life that ended up. Making the podcast difficult to schedule and produce. I got COVID. I had whatever the podcasting equivalent of writer's block is and just couldn't get off the ball and fell behind. And it started to feel like I just couldn't handle everything. That was going in on, in my life. So rather than force it, I decided to kind of forgive myself a little bit, take a step back, take a little bit of time off, but I'm excited to get back in the swing of things. I'm not quite out of the woods in terms of scheduling, but as always, I've got a great backlog of guests that I'm trying to reach out to and find time with. So, anyway, thanks for bearing with me. Look forward to getting back into the swing of things as always, we've got a vast back catalog. Of content you can tap into. If you ever miss my voice. I did need to thank this week. Sponsor, dynamic cyclist. This is always the time of year when I start seriously thinking about stretch. When I start seriously thinking about stretching and strengthening, I guess it's kind of natural. Given the ebb and flow of anybody's cycling season. But every year I say, this is the year I got a buckle down. And honestly it wasn't until I connected with the team at dynamic cyclist. And started doing their 15 minute or so videos on stretching that are focused on the needs of cyclists. That I kinda really crack the code and I need to recommit again this year because I do see a lot of benefit. Certainly if you're riding hard and riding technical terrain, it's just critical to remain limber and it gives your muscles a little bit of break and ease. Something, I think we could all use. So dynamic cyclists has a vast library of content. They've got injury, specific content that you can tap into. So if you've got a knee problem or back problem, they've got specific routines that can help support. Getting limber in those areas that are going to support say your low back, which is my consistent problem. Anyway, check them [email protected]. You can get 15% off a monthly or annual membership. Using the code that gravel ride or by checking the link in the show notes. They also have a free one week trial. So now's the time to give dynamic cyclist a try. Where that business behind us. Let's jump right into my conversation with mark and the Dustbowl 100. Mark, [00:03:53]Craig Dalton (host): welcome to the show. [00:03:54]Mark O'Leary: You're glad to be here, Craig. It's a, it's exciting. I've been a listener to the podcast for a long time and I'm excited to be here to tonight to talk about the dust bowl. [00:04:04]Craig Dalton (host): I love it. And as a introduction to how I discovered the dust bowl, 100, I got a, uh, I got a text message from my long term cycling friend, a guy I used to work in a bike shop with when we were both in college, and he's like, Hey Craig, are you familiar with the Dust Bowl 100? I should probably read it to you. Have you considered interviewing Marco Leary, the founder of the Dust Bowl 100? That race has hit a tipping point where it will be one of the premier events in the country. If you're interested, I'll make the connection. And I was like, that's, that's awesome. [00:04:36]Mark O'Leary: Let's do it. That's really cool. Uh, he sent me a similar message and said, you know, have you heard of the gravel ride podcast? And, uh, I was like, absolutely. I listen to it every week. And he's like, well, I've got a connection there. I'll see if I can get you on. So I was, I was pretty pumped to hear that. Nice. [00:04:54]Craig Dalton (host): Let's start off as we always do. Mark, where'd you grow up and how did you discover cycling as a child? And then later, how did you discover it as a sport to participate in? Yeah. [00:05:05]Mark O'Leary: Okay. Um, I'm a lifelong Hoosier, born and raised in Indiana, um, grew up in Terre Haute, so the west side of the state, um, probably best known as a place where Larry Bird, um, went to college at Indiana State. Um, growing up, um, I've got three brothers, we were all into the, the stick and ball sports, so basketball and football were the big ones to play, um, and I was lucky enough to play basketball, uh, all the way through college. So, um, you know, the bike, um, growing up was, was, you know, something I did for fun. Um, I'd like to ride to my friend's house. Um, I love the exploration aspect of riding the bike, um, just going to find, um, you know, trails in the parks next to our, our neighborhood or, uh, you know, when I got to middle school, riding downtown to get a haircut in high school over the summer, I'd ride my bike into basketball practice, uh, here and there, but the bike was, was never really, uh, cycling was never really a sport that I would consider at that point. It was just more a means to get around and, uh, and, and just, you know, have some fun with friends basically. Um, and then as I said, I played basketball through college, um, with the Hanover college down in Southern Indiana, um, a little division three school on the, on the Ohio river. Um, and at that point, you know, the bike was, I could get to class, um, get across campus a little quicker by hopping on the bike. And, and that was the extent of my riding a bike, uh, in, in college. Yeah, [00:06:34]Craig Dalton (host): I can't imagine as being someone in indiana showing promise in the sport of basketball that anybody was encouraging you to do anything but basketball, [00:06:42]Mark O'Leary: right? That's, that is very true. I mean, indiana is basketball is the sport of indiana. So, um, that was the focus of, you know, I put all my focus into that and yeah, I didn't have, you know, I played football a little bit growing up. And by the time I got to high school, it was fully focused on basketball. So not much time for any other sports or activities. Nice. [00:07:02]Craig Dalton (host): So you, you played, continued playing basketball at the college level. Once you graduated, were you thinking about continuing to play basketball or was it, uh, you know, sort of the end of your career of basketball? [00:07:13]Mark O'Leary: As far as a, you know, competitive being on part of a team, that was the end of my career. Um, But, you know, I played in some men's leagues, some rec leagues after college, um, just try to keep the competitive juices flowing. Um, but, you know, after a year or two, the knees started to hurt a little bit more than they, um, than they had before. Uh, you know, I couldn't jump as high, I couldn't shoot as well as I, as I did in college. It's kind of one of those things like, well, I need to find something else to do. I, you know, I'm still really competitive, but my competitive. Uh, it wasn't getting scratched with how, how my transition of the basketball game was going. So I needed to look for something else. I tried doing some running, but again, the knees didn't enjoy that. So I'm really kind of just fell into the, um, fell into the bike. Um, are you in Indianapolis at that point? Yeah. Yep. So I, after college moved up to the Indianapolis area, I live in Plainfield, so it's a, it's on the west side. It's a west side suburb of Indianapolis, um, right by the airport. And we have a fantastic trail network, uh, rails to trails network here in town. Every single neighborhood is connected by a trail. We have tons of parks that are all connected with the trails and, um, really just got a bike at Walmart to go ride the trails and kind of explore town since, since we were newer to town at that point. And uh, did that for, you know, a month and it was like, you know what, I want to go venture out and get out on some of the county roads around here and see what else is out there. Things I don't see in a car on a day to day basis. You know, I think my first, what I call a long ride was probably 10 miles. I got, you know, five miles at a time and I thought I'd, you know, done a century ride. And I was, I was like, this is awesome. I can't believe all these things I'm seeing that I don't see on a day to day basis. And really from there, uh, I got bit by the bug quick and, um, you know, jumped right into, found some group rides and jumped into, you know, trying to ride faster than doing some training to keep up with the past group. And then jumped into the, you know, racing with, with crits and, um, and some cyclocross, you know, a year or two into writing. So. [00:09:20]Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha. Yeah. I was going to ask you in the Indianapolis scene as, as you got interested in writing. What was the easiest genre of cycling to get into? Was there a big road scene, a crit scene? What kind of was the easiest thing to kind of get that performance side of the sport? Uh, getting excited about it. [00:09:40]Mark O'Leary: So I started around 2011 is when I got into cycling. Um, so at that point. Um, there were still a lot of criteriums and a couple of road races in the Indianapolis area. Um, I tell my friends now, like, you know, they met, they, if they started writing recently, like they missed out on a great crit scene back then. Um, you could, you could raise a crit almost every weekend from April through, um, July or August within, you know, an hour, maybe two hours of Indianapolis. And great. So I, that, that helped me get into the sport again, but that competitive itch, um, And so that was great at that time. We also had a time trial series, um, that took place, um, just one town over from where I live. And, um, that was a five, I think, a five race series on Sunday mornings, um, throughout the summer. So that was another way just to get a quick, easy race in and get that competitive juice flowing. And, um, so I'd say time trials and criteriums were what, you know, initially got me into the competitive side of the sport. [00:10:39]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. There's something to be said for both of those being like an hour long or less events because you can kind of leave your family, go race a race and be home before they're even done with brunch versus, you know, these gravel events we love now you've got to commit to an entire day or you've got to travel. It's a lot more of a production than a crit or a time trial [00:11:02]Mark O'Leary: would be. Yeah, that's exactly right. I love the time trial because it was a Sunday morning at like 7am so I could go there, race, come home, shower, get to church with the family, you know, by 9. 30 in the morning and it was, it was great. So, um, there is something to be said for those short and local races for sure. [00:11:21]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, so, um, again, just naivete around Indianapolis and the riding around there. When did you start to discover gravel cycling and, and, and the off road riding possible around Indianapolis? [00:11:35]Mark O'Leary: Yeah. Um, I would say probably 2014, 2015, I was pretty early into riding gravel, kind of the riding gravel scene around here. Um, you know, at that point, um, I guess. I've always been interested in the outdoors and getting outside, seeing nature and kind of exploring, which I mentioned before. And so finding gravel was my way to kind of do that on the bike. And we've got a couple, uh, rails to trails in the neighboring county, Putnam County, which the Dust Bowl takes place in. Um, there's a rail trail system that's crushed limestone. And so that was my first kind of foray into getting into gravel and just rode that trail a couple of times and got out in the country. Um, over, over the course of time, um, kind of veered off, it would cross some gravel roads. I'd turn down that gravel road and see where it took me. And, um, at that time, you know, there wasn't a big gravel riding or racing scene in Indiana or really anywhere. Um, but there was a bike shop, um, on the Northwest side of Indianapolis that put on a, a week or a monthly gravel ride. They, they call it the most, most inconvenient. Um, weeknight or weeknight ride because it was, you know, 30 or 40 minutes outside of town. Um, it was at a park, but it was my, it was my first group ride gravel experience. And that was, uh, again, a monthly ride that they put on. Um, so that, that was kind of my first step into writing gravel as a group. And then there were a couple of events, a couple of events, um, that gravel events that, uh, you know, were taking place then. Um, I think the, the longest gravel. Longest running gravel event in Indiana, um, is called the Gravel Grovel, and it takes place the weekend after, uh, Thanksgiving every year. So, um, I think that's been going on since 2011, maybe. Um, so, I think 2016, 2017, I participated in that my first time, um, and that takes place in the Hoosier National Forest. So you're out in the middle of nowhere, out in the woods and the hills, um, and then there was a race on the north side of Indianapolis called the Harvest 50, and I believe that started in 2015, it's still going today, um, and that was kind of the first, uh, or the other gravel race that, that, you know, was happening around here. Um, I've participated in every Harvest 50 since it started. Um, and I've been, you know, participating in the Gravel Grovel almost every year as well. So those, those are the two events that got me into it. [00:14:05]Craig Dalton (host): And yet had you traveled out of state to participate in any events? [00:14:10]Mark O'Leary: Uh, no, with, with the young family, um, typically try to do all of my events in the state. Um, that said, you know, recently. Um, I, I went out to Unbound this year, um, participated, did the 200 mile race there. Um, went to Barrier Bay in Michigan this year. Um, went out to Mid South last year, have done some races in, in Illinois, but. Um, outside of those, most of my writing and racing is in Indiana, just, just to keep it close for the family and, you know, not have to spend too much time on the road. [00:14:40]Craig Dalton (host): So, yeah, with a couple of those great Indiana events already being on the calendar, what inspired you to create your own? [00:14:49]Mark O'Leary: Um, I, I think a couple of things is one is just, I was appreciative of those promoters and those events that they'd put on and felt like. You know, putting on my own event was another way to get back to that cycling community and do something that those events have been doing for a while and just give people another option to, um, you know, participate and get that, get out there and explore, see new roads that they wouldn't typically see. Um, and then going back to, you know, I mentioned earlier that there was a great print scene back in 2012, 2013, but over the years it has died out and there's very few events now on the roadside. Yeah, in Indiana. So, um, I also wanted to do something else to get another event on the calendar that, you know, everybody in Indiana can focus on and participate in and kind of create a big, um, you know, at least regional, if not national level of it, um, here in the state of Indiana. So that was. Kind of the the other reason behind [00:15:50]Craig Dalton (host): it and when you when you jumped into planning the first event Had you had any experience planning events like this or exposure to some of the other race? Organizers to understand what you were getting into. Yeah, [00:16:02]Mark O'Leary: just yes. Yes, and no so in college I hope Organize a 5k run for the first time on Hanover's campus. So I had some event, you know, management experience there. My first job out of college, um, was working for an event management company or event, um, merchandise company. Where we would go to events and set up pro shops that, you know, racing events, NFL stadiums, those types of things. So. Um, kind of had the, the event background from, from that career as well. Um, and then, uh, I've been the president of my cycling club here in, in, in Plainfield for a number of years. And as part of that, I would always just put on, you know, grassroots, um, fun weekend events where we'd go, you know, go out for some Strava segments, um, here and there, or we'd go do a race around a park or different things and just kind of had a little bit of experience with that. Um, and then I'd also. You know, as I got into thinking about doing an event, uh, an actual, you know, full scale event, um, I volunteered with a couple of organizations. Um, that put on like charity rides, uh, in the, in the area as well. Just got on there, you know, planning committee. So I can see how those events ran, how those, how, how they did, um, how they did those events and what went into it. So that gave me a good idea of getting into it. Like here's a checklist of things I need to do. To make it a successful event, [00:17:26]Craig Dalton (host): so yeah, interesting, you know, you answered my question, which was, you know, a lot of times event organizers will kind of create a group ride and then it will expand, then it will expand and then it will become an event, but you had done that. It sounds like in a lot of different capacities and taking the time to learn from other organizers. So it sounds like, and don't let me put words in your mouth, but when you decided to go for the Dust Bowl 100. It was going to be a thing, you know, you were going to have to invest capital in it. You were going to have to get sponsors. You were going to have to do a lot more. How did you approach kind of getting the capital together to put a race of this size [00:18:01]Mark O'Leary: together? So um, I think the, maybe the first thing is take a step back is I decided I think it's February of 2020. Um, to put on the dust bowl, I was out riding that day, um, out on some of the roads that we use on the course. And I was like, you know what, I need to just take the step and put on an event and show, you know, everybody these roads, they're worth showing off. Um, and then obviously, you know, a month later COVID hit and, um, that plan to have an event in July of, of, uh, 2020 that year didn't, didn't transpire. Um, but that said. When... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28628818

Paris Brest Paris (part 2) with James Gracey 10/10/2023

Paris Brest Paris (part 2) with James Gracey Welcome to part 2 of Paris Brest Paris with James Gracey. This episode concludes James's intense 1,200-kilometer ride filled with unexpected obstacles and unexpected friendships. Faced with numerous challenges, from illness to malfunctioning electronics, James's determination powers him through, making his journey a testament to sheer grit. Halfway through, with 600-kilometers still to go, he contemplates quitting but finds encouragement in the unity of fellow riders. Each twist and turn loaded with his physical and mental endurance eventually leads to the finish line. As he crosses it with newfound friends by his side, James's story evolves into not just an adventure, but a celebration of camaraderie and the human spirit. Don't miss out on this extraordinary account of grit and determination that will surely inspire. Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (host): Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, we've got part two of my discussion with James Gracey. And his Perry Brest Paris ride in 2023. If you haven't listened to the episode last week. Press stop or pause. Go back and listen to that episode because we're going to catch up with it halfway through. James is about 600 kilometers into Perry, breast Paris. Uh, 1200 kilometer ride from Paris to the town of Brest in France, back to Paris. Let's jump right in midstream to my conversation with James Gracey. [00:01:02]James Gracey: So the way out [00:01:03]Craig Dalton: to breast is your first 600 kilometers. And this is a distance that you've now done pre once previously before. Yeah, I'm a, this is all you're [00:01:12]James Gracey: ready to go. So [00:01:14]Craig Dalton: did you, did you sleep at all on the first six? I [00:01:16]James Gracey: slept, uh, Lodiak is the, is the 400 K point. It's also where the bag drop point was and so unfortunately one of the gentlemen that is Responsible for san francisco randonneurs. He's he runs the organization Uh, and I think he's affiliated also with rusa He got sick and so he's coming over to do the ride He has gone way out of his way to make sure everybody has what they we took 106 people from san francisco Which is a huge contingent bigger than most And he, his name is Rob Hawks, and he got sick, uh, like to the hospital in the emergency room, sick when he landed. And so he had, uh, he had some hotel rooms in Lodiak that he was, when he realized he's not going to be able to, to utilize them, it was two days before, and I was sick. And so I was up at two in the morning being sick. And I got. noticed that these hotel rooms were available. So, because I was sick, I was like, done. I'll take, I'll take them both. They were both in Lodiak the first night and then the second night coming back. And so I did grab all my gear, my drop bag, go to the hotel, took a shower. And uh, lay down for like two hours. [00:02:39]Craig Dalton: And we, so were you, was it going to work? The math going to work out that you were going to be in the same hotel the next night? [00:02:45]James Gracey: Yeah. I just left my gear. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. So it saved me a little bit of time. So I didn't have to go check in to get gear. Yeah. It, it didn't work out quite that way because I was so far behind when I returned to Lodiak. I had to go to the hotel, get my gear packet, no shower. I changed kits. And went, uh, and had to go back and drop the bag because they're leaving. The bag drop people are leaving. That's how close we are. And that's one of the bigger problems with starting at the end. That when it's at the end, if you start at the beginning and you fall six hours behind, no big deal. There are people that are, you know, twelve or thirteen hours behind you still. But when you start at the end and you get hours behind, you're at the end. And they are closing down the control station. Um, what was your, [00:03:34]Craig Dalton: what was your kit set up? Like, it sounds like you brought two, [00:03:37]James Gracey: two sets of. I had three, I had one for one for each day. And I planned on, I planned on changing them. And, uh, they were just my regular road. Yeah. But just for [00:03:46]Craig Dalton: like general cleanliness [00:03:48]James Gracey: and yeah. You want to get out, you want to get out of that. And, um, like I was in my, my second kit for 40 hours or something like that. Um, coming, coming back. And. Yeah feels pretty gross. So if you're [00:04:04]Craig Dalton: back in what was the town called? Lodiak you're now i've done 800 800k, so you got 400k to go. Yeah somewhere along the way. I got a message from you That made it sound like you're done Yeah, [00:04:19]James Gracey: uh after after uh breast It was kind of evening beautiful sunset and we're leaving breast and i'd been sick. I got sick the friday before the ride Probably because we were just out I just came back from the event and I was not having oysters and lots of seafood and lots of pate and lots of stuff that I just didn't agree with. Um, or didn't agree with me. And so I was sick Friday, Saturday and Sunday, uh, before the event. And I just can't keep anything. Anything that comes in, that I put in, comes right back out. And, uh, then that continued for the first day. Anybody I'd ride with, I would get in a groove riding with them on the first day, like with two or three people. And I might ride with him for 45 minutes or an hour, and then I would say, I have to go. Like, I gotta go be sick. I have to go be sick, and I would let him go, which stunk. And it kind of kept getting worse and worse. And I'm trying to eat and drink as much as I can, especially fluids. And, uh, after breast, there's this, there are two secret controls. You don't know where the control is. And it's to keep people from cheating. My thought was probably like yours is now. Why would you do that? Why would you sign up for this self inflicted thing and cheat? Apparently it happens. I don't know why you would do that. Just do the ride. So in the second control, the secret control, I had a fever and I can't keep anything in me and I'm super dehydrated. And I even took pictures of like this dehydration that you can see in my face along the way. And I'd probably lost 10 or 12 pounds by that point, is my guess, from the Friday before I went to the Secret Control. I got to that point where I'd tried to think about, you know, a month ago and two months ago, of what are you going to do when you have all the reasons in the world to quit? Like, are you going to push through and what are you willing to trade off for that, for that, at that time? And I, I knew the answer. But I capitulate. And I, uh, and I, I went to the secret control. Um, when I had a fever, I was like, my wife had just texted me that the kids had COVID. And I was like, no, you're COVID. That's where the fever is coming from. And, uh, cause we had just seen each other two days before. And I was like, this is, you know, I have children. I have to get back. I do not need to be in a French hospital for a month because I've, you know, Tried to tough it out. And so I went to the control, uh, uh, officials, and I said, I need to withdraw. And, uh, I was really concerned about the fever. And, and he said, he said, Okay, what's your number? And I gave him my number, and he said, All right, we're going to withdraw you. And I said, what do I do? And he said, you ride to the next control. You ride to the next control. And I was like, can I sleep? I was really tired, can I sleep here? And he said, no, we're closing. The other problem with being at the very back. He said, we're closing in an hour. You cannot sleep here. And you cannot stay here. Because when we lock the doors, you cannot be here. I was like, well, the next control is Carhay. It's 50 or 60 miles away. I was like, so, if I quit, I still have to ride? This is at 10 or 11 at night. And he said, yes. , that's what you do. And I said, well, take my name off the , take my name off the list, I rescinded [00:07:40]Craig Dalton: by [00:07:40]James Gracey: quit. And I'll decide. I'll decide when I get there. If, uh, if there were, that's still the case. 'cause I am close. And I just couldn't, I couldn't overcome thinking like what I'm risking. And I just drank and drank and drank. And I think I, I think I didn't have a fever. I think I had, I was hot. Because I didn't have anything to cool me off. Yeah. 'cause I was just super dehydrated and so I kept drinking and drinking and drinking. And then by the time I got there, uh, to Khe, I laid down and I, I think I sent you the video of like all the people laid out all over the place. [00:08:13]Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Just like people just, it's unbelievable falling asleep with their head next to their food on the table, anywhere laying on the ground. [00:08:23]James Gracey: They had, there were, I didn't see, I saw one person with their feet in the street, like on a highway, like their feet are over the line. And you're like, wow. As you go and you move your feet. Somebody told me they saw a head over the, head with helmet over the line. Like they just got over as far as they could go and they kind of fell over and went to bed. And so I got to Carhay and I laid down in the cafeteria on the ground with flies everywhere. And for two hours and I woke up and I felt a lot better. I'd had, I'd had a meal. I'd had a lot of fluid. And I was like, at that point, you know, my plan was I don't have to, don't think about what, how far you have to go. Don't think I've got another 400 miles or whatever it was you think. I just got to get to the next control. And then from that point forward, it's, I just have to get to the next control, whether it's 70 miles or 100 miles. Right. I just have to, if I can just get there, then I'll make a decision. Yeah. So [00:09:20]Craig Dalton: you're, as you said before, you started in the tail end group, presumably everybody around you, you're starting to see like the really back of the bus. [00:09:31]James Gracey: We're seeing in the back of, of even the people that left 12 hours before me are now back with us. And they're in a terrible, they're in a bad way. Yeah. [00:09:41]Craig Dalton: So are you, are you riding with some of these guys and girls? I'm riding [00:09:44]James Gracey: with, I'm riding with some of them. And we had, uh, I mean, it's pretty interesting, ride baits for a while. Uh, that I'll, I'll, I've, I've, I wish them all, I wish them all well. I did get told at one point I had been riding with this one, uh, uh, randoneur that I was, kept riding in front of him. And he won't get on my wheel. I'm like 40 feet in front of him. 30, 40 feet. I mean, he's getting zero benefit, but he's matching my pace. Like, if you want to get the benefit out of this, you have to ride right behind me. I don't know how it is where you ride, but that's what you have to do, or you may as well just ride by yourself. Because I'm also having to talk loudly so you can hear it way back there. And so this went on for... 7 or 8 hours. I mean, long time. A long ride. And at one point, I got, and this, we went back and forth and back and forth. We'd kind of split up and then come back together somehow, or I'd see him somewhere else. And at one point, we're about to drop down into a, into a, um, control. And I see, I see on my Garmin that we're about to descend for a bit. Even if it's 200 or 300 feet, I don't want to come back up it. If there's no food there, because it's closed. Then I got to come back up because there's a [00:11:01]Craig Dalton: McDonald's right because you're already feeling like you're on the bubble of maybe [00:11:04]James Gracey: I'm on every control. I'm like, I don't know how this is going to work out, but it was getting better and better. And I was like, I told the group, I said, I'm going to that McDonald's and haven't had McDonald's in a dozen years. Easy. Because I quit and they realized fast food is bad for you. [00:11:21]Craig Dalton: They were probably all like Americans. They all eat McDonald's. McDonald's draw of the Golden arches was [00:11:26]James Gracey: too much. It was too much. I saw people in there and it's just across the highway. So I went over there and I got a big Mac and fries. Okay. That was amazing. And I sat down and then a Japanese man came in next. I said, you guys go ahead. I'm going to eat. I need to eat. And I don't want to have to come back up this Hill. To a closed McDonald's. Maybe like I would be devastated. It would be the end. And, uh, then a Japanese man came in and sat, uh, he couldn't figure out the self kiosk. So I walked him through it. And then while he was waiting on his order, I said, Come down and sit next to me. He didn't speak any English. He spoke a little bit. And, uh, he took his helmet off. And as soon as he sat down, he burst into tears. And I said, I said, It's alright, man. I'm in the same place. I'm just not crying. I don't know if he understood, and he just, the only thing he muttered was, this is so hard. This is so hard. And I said, I know, but you're going to eat your meal. I just had mine. I'm going to sit here with you, and we're going to start together, and you're going to be fine. And, and that's, and that's what we did. Right? And he was like, I mean he wasn't, he hadn't lost his mind, but he was hurting, and we still have a long way to go. Uh, and uh, so we, then we left and when I got down to the lane was the next control, the person that I had been riding with, that's behind me said the control is closed and you're screwed. Do you die? He said the control is closed. I said, well, that's, I mean, it's fine. I'm going to finish. My goal was not necessarily to, you know, I would love to make 84 hours, but I'm just going to, I'm going to finish it and I'm not going to finish it if there's no food and I got to come back up this hill. So I know where I need to be. He said the control's closed and I said, Alright, well I'm gonna go and, and lay down and get some, get, and sleep. I'm gonna sleep for, you know, 30, 40 minutes. And he said, well the control is closed. Why don't you come with me? And I said, No. You're not helping me anyway. And so I, I, uh, he went on and then I went into the control and the control was not closed. The control was open. And I think he just wanted me to sleep. Drag him around. I don't know. It was the only, it was the only not super awesome experience that I had. Yeah. And so I got my, got my thing stamped and I was like, there were some other people there. I was like, I know I'm tired, but you just heard what I just heard. There were some San Francisco guys there. And he goes, yeah, he said it was close. It was not close. All right. Maybe he was dreaming. Somebody else later at another, I think even our last control or control before last. was devastated, sitting there, losing his mind because the control is closed. And we're like, it's not closed. It's right there. It's open. He goes, no, it's not. We're like, it is right there. It's open. He goes, he goes, no, I DNF'd. I'm not finishing because it's closed. And we're like, it's not closed. It's right, it's right where the lights are. He goes, what? And it's, and then he started muttering a bunch of stuff that made zero sense. Uh, and so I got some sleep. And I woke up, and one thing somebody had told me before you, before we even started any of this was your body, as I don't know if I can sleep in the grass or sleep in the day, and they said your body will put you to sleep, you will go to bed, and your body will put you there, and they were right, like you can go to sleep anywhere, in the grass and rocks, I have a picture of one guy literally sleeping down the stairs, his feet are on, three stairs away from his head, And it cannot, it can't be comfortable. But he's sleeping. He's just asleep. And so I slept, I woke up, and there were, uh, four, uh, SFR guys that were about to take off. Uh, it was, uh, Ed, Misha, um, Matt, and then one, and then one other San Francisco, Randall Nair guy. And I was like, you want to ride together? And we still had maybe 200 miles to go. to maybe, maybe even a little more than 200. It's so [00:15:36]Craig Dalton: crazy. Like I can't even get my head around, like being that it, you know, in the pain locker. And then And then [00:15:43]James Gracey: like, you know, you have 200 miles to go. We don't think, we don't ever talk about like, Oh, we only have 600 more miles to go. We have more miles to go. Yeah, we just have to get, we have to get to the next control. We just got to get to the next control. And we rode together through the night. Uh, and it was awesome. It was one of my best night rides ever. That, uh, uh, emotionally that I've ever had. It was awesome. We were making good time. It was a beautiful night. We're all laughing. Having a, um, a good time. We're all, uh, fed. And we all have fluids. And making stops where we need to stop. And get a sausage or a coffee or whatever. And it was awesome. Um, and then we got to two controls to go. And there was a storm coming in behind us and I'm showing them on the radar like this is coming It's really thin. It's gonna like it's gonna blanket us with water and lightning for like 15 minutes So let's get under that tent and go to sleep For 15 minutes and they said no, I was like well, I Think we should stay dry. I think it's important because if you get wet after you know, you're gonna get blisters It's gonna be very uncomfortable Things are going to start rubbing you in the wrong places. Like you could have a whole host of new problems because you're wet and it hasn't rained yet. Yeah. And so then they, we traded like we compromised. Uh, Ed was the, was, um, uh, did the most compromise. He said, all right, I'm going to go get a sandwich and a Coke. You sleep. I'll wake up in 15 minutes. And if it's not raining, we're leaving. And I was like, done. So he did that. Uh, and Matt and Misha, we're all, we were still all there together. And, uh, they were stronger riders than me, so I need them. So he kicked me to wake me up, and I was like, let's go. And, uh, it kept getting, then it got light, maybe two or three, two hours later. So the [00:17:35]Craig Dalton: rainstorm, did it materialize? [00:17:37]James Gracey: No, it didn't rain. I told him it was going to rain and showed them the radar. they're stronger than me, so they finished before me. I was like, I was on the ridge by myself. The rainstorm was right behind us. Like I'm watching the lightning storm roll in. And the lightning storm went around just like that. Sounds like you [00:17:58]Craig Dalton: just convinced these guys you needed a 15 minute nap. [00:18:01]James Gracey: I need 15 minutes, yeah. But they were, they were cool with it and we all left together. Uh, and we met up with another SFR guy named Noah, who's a really strong rider. And, We were rocking through the middle of morning having a great time. Was [00:18:17]Craig Dalton: this the most simpatico group you ever found? Yeah, throughout the time. For sure. [00:18:20]James Gracey: Yeah, without them I wouldn't have finished. Like if it hadn't been, if it hadn't been for them and their enthusiasm to finish um Like Ed had done it 12 years ago and didn't finish Uh, it was Misha's first time. It may have been, I don't remember about Matt Um, but they had a lot of energy and enthusiasm and like hey, let's all We're better off together than we are separately, so let's figure out a way to do... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28282070

Paris Brest Paris with James Gracey (part 1) 10/04/2023

Paris Brest Paris with James Gracey (part 1) Bonjour listeners! This week we bring you part 1 of my discussion with James Gracey and his experience at the 2023 Paris Brest Paris ride. Starting with his beginnings in Mississippi to braving the awe-inspiring 1200-kilometer cycle race, James offers us a riveting account. It's an ultimate test of endurance, perseverance, and grit, accompanied by the impressive camaraderie of the cycling community. We touch upon the importance of mental preparation, time-management, and effective strategies to conquer challenges. Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (host): Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the show, I'm welcoming my friend, James Gracey to come on and talk about Perry breasts, Paris. In fact, our conversation went so long. I'm going to break it up into two episodes. Have you ever seen those riders typically on steel bikes with maybe a rack up front and certainly a bag on the front of their bars, riding the roads potentially coming home at six, 7:00 PM. As you've long shelf to your gravel bike and been doing something else. The type of rider that's been out all day. Maybe they're wearing wool clothing, but they've got a little bit of a throwback vibe. I was a little bit unfamiliar with the sport of Renda nearing. But along the way, I've actually had a couple guests. I remember Yon from Renee. Hers was a big, random. And a rider. And also Tim from Kitzbuhel. I showed up one day riding one of those bikes on a ride I was on. I never really thought too much about it and about the history of this sport, but with James signing up or attempting to sign up for Perry, Brest, Paris this year. I dug it a little bit more and learn the history of the sport. Learned that it's a hundred year old event. It's the oldest cycling event in the world. Learned a little bit about what it takes to qualify I became fascinated by both the sheer endurance challenge of this 1200 kilometer ride, but also the culture around it. Now as James will mention in our conversation, he's relatively new to the scene. I've known him for 25 years and always known him to attack many, a cycling challenge, but he wasn't part of that random air culture. Much more than six, eight months ago. But he dove right in God has qualification for Perry brass Paris. And completed. The 1200 kilometer journey. Just in a Nick of time under his 84 hour time limit that he set off for himself. I thought the story was so fascinating. I thought I would share it with you. With gravel bikes, we have a similar type setup to these random airbikes they're often. They're designed around comfort and obviously long distance performance, just like many of our gravel bikes. So the way I think about it is the Renda near community. Is the kissing cousin, the older cousin. Of the gravel cycling community so i hope you enjoy the conversation as i said i'll break it up in the middle to put it into two roughly 45 minute episodes and with that here's my conversation with james gracie James, welcome to the show. [00:03:04]James Gracey: Thanks. Thanks for having me Craig Dalton. Welcome to the kitchen. Welcome to the kitchen This is where it all happens [00:03:09]Craig Dalton: this is a little bit of a detour for the gravel ride podcast because there wasn't a lot of gravel in Paris Brest Paris, but Talking to you over the months in preparation for this and talking to you during the event It just seems too good not to capture these stories Because i've always thought after I had learned about randoneering through a couple past guests I've always felt like it's the kissing cousin of gravel and a lot of the mentality is similar to some of these gravel events. So that's a long introduction, but I want to first start off by just asking a little bit about your background. Super quickly, where'd you grow up and how'd you discover the [00:03:46]James Gracey: bike? Uh, I grew up in Mississippi, uh, which is not a super bike heavy, uh, area. And I, um, bought a bicycle. When I was 12 years old for 120 from Sears, I thought it was awesome. And I remember going, uh, my very first time that I reached another city limit sign, which was like four miles from where I lived, I was like, I just rode to another city. It was Marion, and I was like, that is awesome. I was like, I went home, I rode to another town. And then after that, for years, I would ride to another town, or ride to another town, and I thought it was incredible. And so I kept buying bicycles that were, You know, probably beyond my capacity to spend on a bike, but that's where my, that's where I wanted to spend whatever money that I had. Yeah. And did [00:04:37]Craig Dalton: you start sort of taking bigger and bigger adventures as you became older? [00:04:41]James Gracey: And yeah, yeah, yeah. So I w I would take, uh, when I was 15 or 16, I'd ridden maybe up to maybe up to a 100 miles. And, uh, when I was in college, I took some bicycle trips. I worked at a bike shop And so I got inexpensive gear there with a discount, and I would take trips either back to my home, which was, like, the first time I did that trip was 140 miles. It's 90 on the regular highway. Uh, or I would, when I was in college, I'd ridden down to Florida to see a friend on a mountain bike because I didn't have another one. And I just, I thought it was awesome. From Mississippi down to [00:05:21]Craig Dalton: Florida? Yeah. And did you, were you? It sounds like the bicycle was a mode of adventure and exploration, but were you, were you discovering racing? Were you interested in racing? Uh, I [00:05:33]James Gracey: did mostly. I rode, I raced a little bit of bikes, mostly I did triathlons. Okay. I was doing triathlons when I was, uh, 14 and 15 in Mississippi, which is some of the oldest triathlons are, are from Mississippi. Was that right? They were from the, they were from the mid to late seventies. Mississippi, Tennessee, and Alabama has some of the oldest ones. Super interesting. And, uh, I was a swimmer growing up. And, and I would run to swim practice, like when I was 12 and 13, which is a couple miles each way. And so I just kind of, it made sense to put them together. Yeah. And I raced triathlons for 30 years. [00:06:09]Craig Dalton: And you moved progressively into the longer distances. [00:06:12]James Gracey: Into longer distances, and I did longer trips either by myself, like I bet a friend of mine when I was 25 that I could ride the Natchez Trace in three days. I bet him 20, and I have his 20 still in my, in my closet that he signed. Uh, and it was super hard. It was really hard. It was in July. It was 100 and something degrees every day, and there's no services on the Natchez Trace. Um, Which is actually this, this pen that I have, uh, given to you is actually a challenge, going to be a challenge pen at some point in this talk about the Snatch's Trace 444 that you and I may could do together. Okay. Uh, next year. And, uh, I did, I did that ride and it, it changed, it was, that was the hardest thing I'd ever done in my life. And, I really enjoyed that. It's a, it's by far the best way to see the world. You're going slow enough that you can see everything, but fast enough that you're not walking and you're not going to see the same thing over and over again for days on end. You can really, you can really move through an area or a state or even a country on a bicycle in not that much time. And it's, it's, it's hands down the best way to see the world. So I'm going to fast forward [00:07:33]Craig Dalton: maybe 30 years of time. So many, many Ironmen under your belt. You and I connected probably 20 years ago doing Ironman triathlons, but we've also had some other off road adventures together. We've done the Leadville 100 together. Um, we've gone to Europe a couple of times, road riding with a group of friends and gravel and gravel and gravel. Yes. Yeah. For the listener, James was on that Girona gravel trip in November of 2022 that I talked about on the podcast previously. So you've done a bunch of things. Cycling has always been part of your life. I've been fortunate enough to be your friend and been invited to do things with you and encouraged to do things with you. Earlier this year, the beginning of the year, you came up to me and you're like, Hey, I'm going to do Perry, Brest, Paris, you want to do it? And you said, here, there's all these things you need to do in order to do it. And I was like, dude, that's the type of invitation that I love one, but two takes me months and months and months to get my head around. So Perry, Brest, Paris is the oldest cycling race in the world. It goes from Paris to Brest, back to Paris, 1200 kilometers. Self supported and a 90 hour time limit. Is that correct? There [00:08:53]James Gracey: are, uh, there are three different time limits that are self selected. Okay. You can choose to do an 80 hour time limit, an 84 hour time limit or a 90. I chose 84. [00:09:02]Craig Dalton: Okay. So we can get into that to just set the stage because this is a gravel cycling podcast, the sport of randoneering in cycling is its own interesting thing. That's been around, obviously, since the. Yeah. But it's this concept that you've got multiple distances that are sort of official distances of Rendon air cycling. Can you just kind of talk through a little bit of your understanding of it? [00:09:29]James Gracey: Yeah. So it, uh, the reason it probably ties directly back to a gravel podcast is 130 years ago, they were, it was, it was born in gravel. It was born on either dirt roads or farm roads or whatever they had at the time. This predates almost automobiles. Uh, they had automobiles, but they didn't have roads. And, for the most part, I haven't done, I've maybe done one or two brevets that didn't have gravel in some sections. Some of them were six miles or eight miles. There was some gravel, uh, in Perry Brest. Not much, but percentage wise pretty small, but it may have been a couple of miles. And... And the idea that you're doing it on your own, especially back 130 years ago, that you're doing it on your own, self supported, likely with solid rubber tires back then, I don't remember when. They wouldn't have had a need for pneumatic tires at that point. And have to change everything and carry everything that you need to support your bike. Because you might get lucky and have a break in a town with a bike shop, and you might not. You might have a break in the middle of nowhere at three in the morning. And so, the idea behind that and self reliance is core to rent a nearing. It is core to the series that they have. It's core to just the whole idea of, I'm going to go do this thing. Whether it's a certified ACP Brevet, or whether you just want to go ride for whatever the distance is, usually they're pretty long, by yourself, and you want to be able to fix and do everything that you need. And whatever... Stumbling blocks you encounter along the way that you will be able to overcome them on your own. Yeah. Or, through the assistance of another randoneur, or, whatever, right, but that's, that's still on your own. If you were really hungry and you go ask the farmer for an apple, yeah, he gave you the apple, but you have to go get it. Got it. Uh, and so that's what, what, uh, that's, that's what the whole sport is about. That's what the whole um, uh, section of cycling is about. Yeah. And. They're on gravel all the time. Like I rode a gravel bike on this ride as did a significant amount of people. Yeah. When I wouldn't do that on a road bike. [00:11:52]Craig Dalton: When I see, you know, when I see the people in the Bay area that I consider to be randomers, they're often on steel bikes with a bat, a large bag up front. Yeah. And I would always see them and think. You know, that guy or girl is probably out for a long ride and you'd see him coming through our town of Mill Valley, going back to San Francisco at like 6pm, like having been out all day. So the, the, and the tire, I mean, the tire sizes that I often see on these road bikes were [00:12:20]James Gracey: quite big. Yeah, they're 35s or 40s. Yeah, yeah, [00:12:23]Craig Dalton: exactly. And that's, you know, I had, um, I had Jan Herne from Rene Hurst tires on at one point and he was telling me in the background of our, Conversation about the type of writing he likes to do and how gravel was nothing new for him because he'd been riding, you know, 47 seat tires tire on a road bike for many, many [00:12:44]James Gracey: years. Yeah, you have, uh, like the idea that you would do it on a, on a road bike with 23 or even 25 it's, that's pretty uncomfortable. You're on the bike for a long time and comfort is comfort is key in a gravel bike has longer wheelbase. so I don't know many other people who are so blessed with the opportunity and the journey and Well that's in the back. corrected that So it's a part [00:13:15]Craig Dalton: of my That's and sustain it while you're, because public transport done Perry Breast Paris before and introduce the idea [00:13:26]James Gracey: to you? Uh, I actually learned about Perry Breast Paris in 99 and the guy that told me was a Worked at one. It was a customer of mine in Mississippi and He told he had just come back from the 99 ride and he told me about it. I was like, I'm gonna do that That is definitely something I'm going to do. Yeah, and then when I found out how There's no brevets in Mississippi or Alabama where I lived at the time, or very few, and there was no internet, really, so you couldn't really figure out how to do it, so I back burnered it, and had thought about it for a while, and didn't, I didn't even know it was every four years until last year, I think, uh, and then, uh, one of my friends from Mill Valley, Ray Keane, had gone, uh, to the 2019, uh, Uh, addition and then he was telling me all about it and I followed him the year that he did it in 2019 and And he said it's not that hard you to join a club or you have to join a club. That is Russo the randoners of the United States Russo sponsored that they have ACP rides. So the ACP rides are brevets that are specific to qualification for Perry Brest and probably some other ones, but it has to be an ACP sanctioned event. And to get into those, you have to do four qualification rides within the prior year before Perry Brest. Uh, so they're not all over the place. And that's one of the things that made it seem so arduous, back 15 and 20 years ago, was that I don't know where any of these things are. I've never ridden overnight. I've never ridden for that long. So I was, had been a bicycle mechanic for a couple of years, but I doubt I could, you know, relace up a wheel on the fly to try to get you to the finish line. And, uh, so listening to him go through all of that, it sounded like maybe, maybe it was doable. And then when it came back around in, uh, this year for 23, but he and I started discussing it in 2022. Cause you really, some people prepare for it for four years. Most people that I spoke to prepared for it for two years, and I started, uh, training, I, I really got registered for this in January or February. And so you only have a couple of months to do all four qualification brevets. [00:15:53]Craig Dalton: And what are the, what are the distances of [00:15:55]James Gracey: those brevets? The distances for qualification are 200k, of 300k, of 400k, And [00:16:03]Craig Dalton: it's not just riding 'em. You have to ride them in a prescribed amount of hours. Right. [00:16:06]James Gracey: In a prescribed amount of hours. Yeah. So like the 600 K that I did had a 40 hour time limit, which is totally doable unless you have a problem. If you have a problem in the middle of the night, you have to wait for support or to get to a town that can help you out. You're probably not gonna, yeah, you're probably not gonna make it. As you sort [00:16:23]Craig Dalton: of said, you had a pretty intense schedule because of. The late time in which you started this pursuit. Most [00:16:29]James Gracey: people had already done one or two that allows you to preregister. Kind of at the end of 2022. And so then you can convert that to a full registration. You're almost guaranteed to get in. And I didn't, I didn't do that. And so I had one flexible date from February until the race, or until the, it's not race, until the event. That I may could have moved one thing, but I would have had, uh, Instead of driving to Sacramento to do the 600K, I would have had to fly to Southern California or Arizona to get it in. And it just happened that every one of them, like even when I started the 200K the day after spring break, I hadn't ridden a hundred miles since I was with you in Spain, which was six months before that. And I was just as worried about that as I was about the event. Because it had just been a while. And, um, and I flew in. I got back, I got home late at like midnight and left at four to go do the event. But I don't know anything about these events. And the second one, uh, that I did, there were only four people signed up. You don't know that. So I showed up and there was a guy on a motorcycle there, three other riders, and he said, Well, there's only four of you, so have a good ride. And that was it. Then we were off. There's no like start. There's no banner. There's no start gun. He's like, have a good time. But there are, there are [00:17:58]Craig Dalton: check in points that you have to get stamped or [00:18:00]James Gracey: something. There are, uh, and I did, I did, I brought my, my, um, passport, which is what you have to stamp at the ride. Uh, and so in the, in the ones that are, that are not a big event, like the one for four people, they are non, uh, there are controls that you have to stop at and you either have to purchase something And get a receipt that's time stamped. Yeah, or take a picture of yourself in front of wherever this control is so for a 300k there might be six or seven controls where you have to roll up to the grocery store or One of them was a stop sign Uh an intersection sign. There's nothing you just have to take a picture of yourself in front of it Yeah, and if you forget to do that, then you don't you don't you qualify and [00:18:47]Craig Dalton: that the Your success in these qualifiers, does it get logged somewhere? [00:18:54]James Gracey: It gets logged with RUSA and with San Francisco Randonneurs. So you joined a [00:18:58]Craig Dalton: local club and you submit the fact that you did this event and you have your control pictures [00:19:07]James Gracey: and they log it somewhere. Yeah, so you submit those either pictures or receipts. You scan all the receipts and you send them to whoever was in charge. Of the event that day. The qualification event. Yeah. And so if the event is over Sunday at midnight, you have until Tuesday afternoon at some point to get them either all of their receipts or the pictures and you know, and then they see that you have gone to all of the locations in whatever appropriate timeframe and send it into 'em. So [00:19:38]Craig Dalton: 200 kilometers, 120 miles, I can get my head around. I've done that 300 kilometers. Hundred 80 miles. Yeah. I can stretch my head right around that and say like, okay, start early in the morning. Keep plugging away. Possibly. I'll get that done. I've done, I think maybe on our coast ride, maybe we did 130 miles. Yeah. One year, which was the longest I've ever ridden. Okay. So 180, the 300 k, maybe you get it done in, in one kind of, yeah. [00:20:09]James... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28218038

Crafting the Perfect Ride: Inside the World of Titanium Frame Building with Brad Bingham 09/26/2023

Crafting the Perfect Ride: Inside the World of Titanium Frame Building with Brad Bingham This week we dive into the world of titanium frame building with Brad Bingham. Based in the Steamboat Springs, Colorado, Brad has been crafting custom frames for an impressive 27 years. Starting his journey as a welding enthusiast in high school, Brad's passion for making things led him to the art of bike building. But his skills go beyond frames – he even built his own home with the help of his retired custom home builder father. In this episode, Brad reveals the importance of learning how to do things for oneself and consulting experts. He shares his experience working for a dental equipment manufacturer before diving headfirst into the world of bikes. From working at renowned bike manufacturer Moots to eventually taking over Kent Erickson Cycles, Brad's journey is a testament to his dedication and expertise. Brad and our host, Randall Jacobs, delve into the nitty-gritty details of bike design. They discuss everything from tube selection and mitering to the impact of weight bias and alignment. Brad's deep knowledge of geometry, materials, and manufacturing processes makes this episode a must-listen for any bike enthusiast or aspiring frame builder. But what sets Brad apart from the rest? Well, his attention to detail and commitment to customer satisfaction are second to none. As the owner of Bingham Built Bikes, he prioritizes open communication and mutual respect. With his wife, Hannah, by his side, they handle everything from bike design and production to backend operations. Their tiny operation may be limited in size, but it's big on passion and craftsmanship. Binghm Built Bicycles Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I'm, I'm Brad Bingham. I'm, uh, based out of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, and I'm a custom titanium frame builder. Uh, been doing that here in Colorado for, gosh, going on what, 27 years? [00:00:17]Randall Jacobs (host): Wow. 20, 27 years, [00:00:20]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yep. [00:00:21]Randall Jacobs (host): you don't look, you started welding when you were like eight. [00:00:27]Brad Bingham: Uh, no. I, I really started welding in earnest, um, senior in high school. I. [00:00:35]Randall Jacobs (host): No kidding. [00:00:36]Brad Bingham: And then, yeah, I moved here to, to Steamboat right after I turned 20. And [00:00:41]Randall Jacobs (host): so me about those first welding experiences. How'd you get into it? Was it starting with bikes or was it, uh, a general, was it a vocational program? What was the nature of [00:00:51]Brad Bingham: it, it was very bike centric, so I, I knew that I wanted to construct bike frames, uh, mountain bikes specifically. And to do that, I needed to know how to, you know, join two tubes together. And at the time, I mean, I was 18 years old and didn't have any welding experience whatsoever. So I went and took a, uh, evening like, uh, community college TIG welding course. It was like a 75 hour course and took that in the, in the evenings after work. Um, And I walked in there with a couple of parted off pieces of Reynolds bike tubing and I said, I just need to know how to put these two things together. [00:01:40]Randall Jacobs (host): And so this is really, I mean, this has been your path in life since [00:01:45]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:01:45]Randall Jacobs (host): beginning. [00:01:46]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:01:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, that's, uh, it seems like an increasingly rare phenomenon to have such clarity at a young age at what you wanna do and then to go out and do it. So, uh, good on you. Some of us, some of us, it takes a lot longer. [00:01:58]Brad Bingham: Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was always really passionate about making things. I, I just always needed to be making something or working on something. And luckily the bikes found me, you know, 'cause I was a rider and, um, the idea of building bikes was, you know, not, not anything that crossed my mind until a good friend of mine said, well, why don't you just build your own. And that was, that was the genesis. [00:02:31]Randall Jacobs (host): So, and we were just talking a moment ago, I, I, I was apologizing for the, the state of affairs in my house. 'cause I'm in the process of building a new house around the husk of a, of a old derelict, but, but lovely, uh, home that I just purchased. And you mentioned you built your home as well. So tell me a little bit about that. I'm kind of curious about this builder mentality, [00:02:53]Brad Bingham: yeah. So yeah, I did not, you know, obviously I did not build the entire home myself. Um, my dad was a, um, was a custom home builder for 25 years, and so he was retired at the time, and this was 2000, like 2002 to 2004. Um, he had just recently finished a home helping out my sister build, build a home in Bend, Oregon. And so about a, uh, about a year, year and a half after that, Um, I talked him into coming out here and, and helping me build a home. So it was a big, big project, but really, he, I have to say he did at least 80, 85% of the heavy lifting. Like, yeah, I mean, he was, he was amazing. He's, he passed away in 2008. Um, but he was just a super smart guy and really good at building homes and being efficient, not wasting materials. Um, you know, I was a, I was working for Moots at the time. Didn't have a huge salary or anything. It's not like I was a rich guy. We were really trying to build it as inexpensively as possible. [00:04:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. Well, and I think, um, granted, sounds like your father was far more expert than mine, but we share that. Um, my, my father passed in oh seven and I didn't get to build a home with him, but I did get to work on, um, a couple of properties that, um, uh, he had, uh, my parents had purchased with, um, a aunt and uncle. And these properties were always underwater and always, you know, falling apart. And they'd never had the budget to do, you know, to hire out. And so it's just like, all right, we need to figure this out. And that's how I learned. You know, one of the key ways that I learned how to use tools, how to do things for myself, and there's a certain, um, there's a certain sense of, um, one personal responsibility and also with that personal, um, uh, competence and confidence that goes with learning from a young age to do things like, you don't need to hire an expert. You can consult experts. Maybe sometimes you do, but you can learn this. So that's, uh, that would seem to have carried into, uh, a lot of things in, in, uh, in what you've done starting at age 20 welding frames [00:05:21]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And prior to that I was, you know, I was always on my dad's job sites, um, mostly cleaning up, you know? Um, [00:05:31]Randall Jacobs (host): as, as one does, and at when you're a grunt. [00:05:34]Brad Bingham: yep, yep. But, but yeah, you do learn a lot and yeah. Good stuff. Mm-hmm. [00:05:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, so tell me, so you mentioned you, you take this course, right? You're, you're in high school or just outta high school, and you go to work for Moots right after. How'd that come about? [00:05:51]Brad Bingham: No, I was, uh, I had the opportunity in high school to be part of a cooperative work experience, uh, with the world's largest dental equipment manufacturer. So I worked, I worked in their engineering department, um, really as a drafts person, uh, um, junior, senior year in high school. And then that carried over into, after high school. Um, I was not a, you know, there was a lot of, a lot of life things that, that kind of slowed me down from going to college. Um, my mom was recovering from some pretty harsh cancer and I wasn't really excited to, to leave her. My parents were recently divorced, like, you know, all these things kind of piled up to me staying, staying in my hometown for a year after high school. And I continued to work, uh, in that engineering department. Kind of the, the, uh, path would've been to go into mechanical engineering from there. But I, I kind of looked around and I was like, I don't think this is, for me, I just, you know, I don't wanna just be kind of a cog and cog in the wheel, you know, cog in the machine. Um, I wanted to have a, you know, more greater grasp, more of the whole scope of projects. Um, and that's, you know, bike, bike building allows you to do that. [00:07:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, for, for better or for worse, in a lot of regards, especially in the beginning when you're trying to get off the ground, [00:07:24]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:07:25]Randall Jacobs (host): it's the product, it's the business, it's the marketing. And which is really just another way of saying how do you communicate, how do you build awareness? How do you connect with people? Um, So, so then, you know, walk us through kind of what, what that journey looks like. [00:07:40]Brad Bingham: So, you know, it's, it's funny, I, uh, I, like I said, you know, A gentleman that I worked with, uh, who was a really good friend, uh, at the dental, Manu dental equipment manufacturer. Um, he ended up becoming, you know, years later he was director of engineering. Uh, this is a big major company, like 1200 employees on site, um, major manufacturing capabilities right there in my hometown, which is just outside of Portland, Oregon. [00:08:12]Randall Jacobs (host): and what, um, what types of products [00:08:15]Brad Bingham: oh, uh, [00:08:16]Randall Jacobs (host): ha have I had your products in my mouth at some point? [00:08:19]Brad Bingham: uh, maybe not in your, maybe not literally in your mouth, but, but potentially actually, yeah, you probably have like the, uh, you know, the little suction wand that, uh, goes in your mouth while you're at the dentist. Yeah. I mean, they [00:08:32]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:08:33]Brad Bingham: they even produced that. So the company was a. [00:08:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:08:37]Brad Bingham: You walk into, you walk, walk into certain dental offices, and you'll see that every single piece in that office, it's me, sorry, is uh, every single piece has adec on it. Literally from the chair that you're sitting on to the cabinets, literally everything. [00:09:00]Randall Jacobs (host): So what I'm hearing is here you are, this, this young kid in, in, in high school, just outta high school. You get this, this opportunity to work in a very large, uh, organization in with, you know, seasoned professionals doing, you know, medical products at a whole nother layer, um, of complexity in terms of design and development and supply chain and things like that. And so you're dealing with that sort of thing. Um, and that was kind of your jumping off point. [00:09:30]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And I, um, I got into the bike building thing because my buddy that I, I rode with, I broke a couple of cannondale and he said, why don't you just make, why don't you just make your own? [00:09:43]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:09:44]Brad Bingham: so of course I did. And it kind of spiraled, you know, I was in his garage late every single night machining something. And, uh, you know, kind of once I built that first bike, it was a really great experience, but I was kind of like, well, what's, what's next in this? And then he said, why don't make one outta titanium? And, uh, so I went and took the United Bicycle Institute Titanium Frame Building course in 1996. Um, and it was taught by Gary Helfrich, uh, who is one of the, one of the founders of Merlin. [00:10:21]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:10:22]Brad Bingham: So, uh, yeah, through that process, moots got ahold of my name and. I got asked to come out to Colorado to interview for a welding position, and you know, as soon as they offered it to me, I took it. And kind of the, you know, the rest is, is history. And, you know, I did feel like that was a wonderful opportunity I got out here and I kind of initially thought to myself like, okay, I'll, I'll do a year out here, figure it out, and then I'll get back to Oregon and I'll start my own brand. [00:10:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:10:59]Brad Bingham: But I got out to Colorado and it's like, wow, I'm, I'm not gonna go home and build better bikes than this. And, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna go step, step away and just immediately be building better bikes. That's not gonna happen. Um, and I fell in love with, with Colorado and the, the stoke that people have here. [00:11:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:11:24]Brad Bingham: So, [00:11:25]Randall Jacobs (host): And what, what is it about, you know, what was it about working at Moots that was particularly special for you, and like, who were some of your mentors? You know, what, what'd you learn there? [00:11:35]Brad Bingham: Well, it, it was a opportunity to work from the, the very bottom, you know, the very bottom to the very top kind of. And so I was able to experience, you know, every, every part of manufacturing while I was there, every, every part of manufacturing, a bicycle frame from titanium. Uh, so I started out welding, but pretty, I did that pretty solid for, uh, five years, five, six years, you know, tons and tons of welding. But while at that time, Kent Erickson was still, um, employed by Moots, and so even in those first few years I was helping, you know, Kent never used a computer. I brought some CAD skills with me, and so pretty quickly I was involved in design work and any little part he wanted to get machined, you know, we needed to do a drawing and I was a drafts person so I could create an engineering, you know, a print, uh, that somebody could read and manufacture it really easily. So, um, with a, with a lot of those skills that I brought, I was able to evolve at moots. You know, I, I look back on it and I think, oh, it, you know, happened pretty quick, but, but really it took a, took a number of years and by 2004, um, I was the production manager at Moots and managing, you know, the flow of the flow of products through the, through the factory. And, um, at the time it was about, I think it was about 14 or 16 guys and gals that were making the bikes. So, um, You know, and then designing all the bikes after Kent left. Um, and I was, uh, designing tooling and, you know, as new specifications came out, we would incorporate those into the bikes and yeah, just making it all happen. And then, uh, yeah, I finally, finally got tired of the, the high volume, you know, it just got, it got really, really big and I was, no, I was then just, like I said, kind of a cog in the machine. And, um, and then not long after my dad passed away, I kind of felt like it was time to make a change. [00:14:09]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, that'll, that'll definitely catalyze some, some serious self-reflection for sure. Um, uh, I think in my case as well, when my, when my dad got sick, um, you know, he, he had a, in my dad's case, it was a, a brain tumor. So as a type that you usually don't, uh, get more than like 6, 8, 10 months from, um, and from then it was like, okay, I moved back, moved back home, um, and resolve like, okay, what are the things that I would like to have done if I were on my deathbed and that I would like to do and share with my father while he's still around and like, you know, shifted my whole life trajectory. [00:14:51]Brad Bingham: Sure. [00:14:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:14:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:14:53]Randall Jacobs (host): So, [00:14:54]Brad Bingham: I, yeah, I hope, did you get the, did you get the six or eight, 10 months with 'em? [00:14:59]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, yeah, he, he lasted about eight months or so. He passed, uh, about 10, 10 days before his 50th and my 25th birthdays. We shared the same birthday. And, um, it was, I wanted to, I wanted to land a big account in the company I was working with. I wanted to, um, get into a good grad school, and I wanted to get my pro upgrade as a racer. And I got two, two of the three before he passed. And then, uh, I had a, a good season, uh, later on, uh, the, the, the following year and, uh, was a, a Pac fodder pro for a hot minute. [00:15:39]Brad Bingham: Gotcha. [00:15:40]Randall Jacobs (host): again, like that, that reckoning of seeing, seeing a, you know, a parental figure and someone that I admired and learned a lot from, you know, I. Towards the end of life, it maybe reflect a lot on, on what I wanna do with my own. [00:15:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:15:54]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:15:54]Brad Bingham: Yeah. 50 is, 50 is way too young. [00:15:58]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:15:59]Brad Bingham: Way too young. I, my dad was 63 when he passed away, [00:16:02]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:16:03]Brad Bingham: felt way too young. [00:16:06]Randall Jacobs (host): I think it is never a good age to lose a parent. Like it, it just brings with it different challenges. Like when, when you're a child, it, it's like you, you need that parental figure to help guide you through life when you're going through your, your twenties or so, you try to discover yourself and that guidance can be helpful if you're in your forties or fifties. I haven't had that experience though. I will. Uh, my mother's still around and still healthy, but, you know, then it's like you're confronting your own mortality. Uh, so part, part of the cycle of life. [00:16:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. [00:16:40]Randall Jacobs (host): So, so your dad, your dad passes, you decide it's time. So what'd that process look like? [00:16:48]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So, um, I chose to, yeah, I chose to leave the job I'd been in for 15 years and, um, you know, they were, moots was a, they were a little surprised by it because I had been there for so long and, um, you know, at the time I was, I was playing a pretty integral. Um, so I, I went to part-time for, you know, I gave them a healthy notice and went to part-time and then, you know, finally trailed off. Um, and that was spring-ish of 2012, and I had no, I had no plans. I had bought a airstream, uh, to renovate, so I did a, like a shell off restoration on a 1973 Airstream and, [00:17:44]Randall Jacobs (host): off renovation. So like you pulled the shell off the chassis. Sandblasted the chassis. [00:17:51]Brad Bingham: exactly. [00:17:52]Randall Jacobs (host): All right. This, this, we need, we need to do a tangent on this 'cause I, I also did a, um, uh, a camper build at one point. So tell me about this Airstream. I'm super curious. [00:18:00]Brad Bingham: what, what was the camper you did? [00:18:03]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, mine, mine, I built out of a 15 foot vno motorcycle trailer. 'cause I had a, I had a Honda Element, which is a four cylinder, um, boxy, little, little adventure mobile that I wanted to, you know, use as a, you know, I wanted to be able to tow around the country. So I built this ultra light, um, largely self-sustaining kind of off-grid trailer, you know, solar thin film, solar on the roof and water recycling for the toilet and all the other stuff. And yeah, it was, it was an experience. [00:18:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, mine was, uh, it was my brother-in-law's folks up in Montana. I was up in Montana in 2011 for, uh, like a, a US Cup mountain bike race, [00:18:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:18:52]Brad Bingham: in, up in Missoula and, [00:18:54]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what year is this? [00:18:56]Brad Bingham: 2011. [00:18:57]Randall Jacobs (host): 2011. Okay. So this is towards the tail end. I, I did the, the, um, when it was the Kenda Cup. I don't know if they were still sponsoring. It's like Show Air was a shipping logistics company that was sponsoring, this is like oh 8, 0 9, maybe 2010. So I think maybe the tail end. [00:19:14]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that sounds right. I don't even know if Kenda and Sho were still involved. Like, I, I raced like the, um, like 2010 I think I was doing like the, like Sand Dimas and Fontana. [00:19:28]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. I did... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28129994

Joe Early: Behind the lenses at Tifosi Optics 09/19/2023

Joe Early: Behind the lenses at Tifosi Optics This week we sit down with Joe Earley, the driving force behind Tifosi's remarkable success. Earley traces his roots in mountain biking back to college years in Georgia, where the community's vibrant cycling culture exerted a significant influence. Joe describes his early days as a outside rep in the cycling industry alongside his wife which laid crucial groundwork to the founding of Tifosi. They recognized an opportunity in the world of sunglasses, spurred by the market's demand for cost-effective yet quality options. The Tifosi brand was established in 2003. Joe describes Tifosi's in-depth attention to the smallest details. Adjustable ear pads, nose pads, innovative ventilation, and photochromic lenses - everything designed with the athlete in mind. They have integrated style with utility in the 'Swank', a lifestyle-looking glass that showcases their commitment to high-quality materials. For gravel cyclists, Earley recommends the fog-resistant, rimless glasses from the rail series. With an easy lens-swapping mechanism, users can adjust according to different lighting situations. Tifosi Optics Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (host): Hey Joe, welcome to the show. [00:00:02]Joe Earley: Thanks for having me. [00:00:04]Craig Dalton (host): I'm excited to get into the story of Te Foci. As I was saying to you offline, I've been aware of the brand for, it feels like my entire cycling career, so it's great to have you on and just kind of learn a little bit more of the backstory and why don't we use that as our starting point. Let's learn a little bit about your backstory. How'd you just, how'd you find cycling to begin with in your life, and where'd you grow up? [00:00:26]Joe Earley: know, um, I think, uh, similarly to you, um, You know, at college, mountain biking was catching on like crazy in the early nineties. And, uh, I was spending a summer with my, my older brother who had a mountain bike and I borrowed a mountain bike and instantly, as soon as I went, uh, I was hooked and, uh, really have been in, in the sport of cycling ever since. So, you know, early nineties got into mountain biking that transitioned to road cycling and then cycl across, and then now, Gravel road mountain bike, although I am recovering from a rotator cuff surgery, so I'm just on the road in gravel now. No mountain biking for a bit longer, but, uh, but yeah, that's how I got, um, got started in, uh, in the sports, uh, was really just through my, through my brother and, uh, Through college, just jumping on a mountain bike. So, um, you know, and then similarly to you, I had a, just a passion, um, for cycling. Just loved it. And, um, got my first job outta college and went and did that for a while. Sales managing for, for a, a boat dealership of all things. And then, um, my wife, uh, Elizabeth, who runs the business with me, her dad was a, a rep in the cycling, in the tractor industry. So he sold like tractor attachments. And I said, you know what, what Henry does, I, I could probably do that in, in cycling, right? There's gotta be some of those out there. So I picked up like a mountain bike action. I flipped to the back, to the list of advertisers and I just started calling companies. And, um, we started our own, um, independent cycling agency first. So that was our, our first business in the, in the cycling space. Um, we ended up having a very successful agency here in the southeast. So we're based right [00:02:08]Craig Dalton (host): gonna ask Joe, where, [00:02:09]Joe Earley: Georgia. [00:02:11]Craig Dalton (host): where were you in, where were you in college when you first discovered mountain [00:02:14]Joe Earley: Uh, so I was at University of Georgia. Uh, I spent a, a summer in Birmingham, actually in, uh, Oak Mountain State Park. Any listeners in that area? Uh, one of the best mountain bike places I've ever been to still today, and I've been riding for 30 plus years. Um, so that was one of the first places I was exposed to, to mountain biking, but then came back here, uh, to college in the fall and, uh, Go Dogs, university of Georgia Town here. We're in Watkinsville, Georgia, which is about 10 minutes from the University of Georgia in Athens. So, um, [00:02:42]Craig Dalton (host): And, and I feel like in that sort of early to mid nineties, Georgia actually had a nor national race over in, in the [00:02:49]Joe Earley: yeah, so actually we had, we had some interesting things. We actually hosted the, uh, the first Olympic mountain bike race here in Atlanta. We went to see that, that was crazy. It's, it's so hot here, uh, in the summer. So it was, uh, it was interesting seeing those guys hammer along. But yeah, there's been, um, you know, there's, there's also I think been a Norman National that used to be up at Sly, uh, in North Carolina, which is right over the, the border. But, um, really active, um, mountain bike scene and, and cycling scene in general here in the southeast. Athens has always been a big, you know, cycling area, the Twilight Criterium, uh, one of the best. Probably road, um, cycling events to watch in the States. 'cause it's, it's downtown Athens at night. It's when students are in, it's, uh, it's a pretty electric vibe. So it's a, it's a fun area for this. [00:03:35]Craig Dalton (host): And would you describe it as being a vibrant cycling community year round in Georgia? [00:03:40]Joe Earley: Um, yeah, I mean definitely there's pockets of, of areas where it's not as accessible. You know, if you're, if you're in parts of Atlanta, The, the, just with traffic and everything else, it's just not as accessible as a lot of other cities. Athens seems is a, is a pretty good community. We're in Watkinsville, which is a small town outside of it, but there's a lot of, you know, Atlanta does have the Silver Comet, which is a rails trail that goes all the way from Atlanta proper all the way out to the Alabama state line. Um, and so it's, it's a nice, uh, venue to have there. So it's a, you know, it's a, it's a very. Cycling friendly community overall, just, I wouldn't ride on a lot of the roads in, in Atlanta, it's a little bit hairy just 'cause of the amount of volume and there's not a lot of dedicated, like some cities, a lot of dedicated, um, bike lanes. [00:04:27]Craig Dalton (host): So you mentioned you and your wife started, uh, an independent rep agency focused on the cycling industry. What were the first products that you picked up? [00:04:35]Joe Earley: my gosh. The first products we picked up, um, brands that are gone now, um, rocket Power Parts, which was like a, a glove company. Um, we did Cantina Mountain bike gear. I. Um, CKA Cranks for a while. Um, but then the first brands that we picked up that we really started to be able to build a business with, um, Louis Gar Apparel, uh, out of Quebec City. And then, um, Marin Mountain Bikes. They didn't have any sales in our territory, but we were able to start building a business with those brands. And then, uh, over time we picked up, you know, a lot of great brands. Um, we were doing CD shoes, Easton, when they launched their cycling. Um, Products independently from selling through other people doing their, their carbon fiber products. Um, gosh, what else do we have? We did cliff bars, another southeast company, defeat socks. Uh, we did sunglass brands. We did a lot of different, or a couple of different sunglass brands over the years. Um, and that's kind of what led to tci. We had a very successful cycling agency. We were selling what was at the time, the number one, you know, cycling, sunglass, and I would make a great commission for those. Your listeners don't understand what an independent rep does. It's. You're a 10 99 independent contractor, you only make money on what you sell. So it's not like these companies are paying you a, a, a salary, it's if you sell a one of their products, you make a commission on it, uh, and you're selling to the bike shops. So we would place a, a display of 12 or 24 pairs of these higher end products, and, and we get a nice commission at that point. And then I'd go around the next month to see Craig and say, Hey, Craig, you know, uh, What's going on with the sunglasses? It looks like you've sold a pair, you know, and they would sell one or two a month at most. Um, and I'm like, guys, I can't stop the car for one pair of sunglasses. How can we sell some more? [00:06:19]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. I think that's another like interesting point just to make sure everybody understands, is like as a independent sales rep, you're going out and visiting throughout the territory. Maybe it's Georgia or the broader Southeast, and you're visiting every single shop. Your job is to figure out how to sell the products. You're obviously selling, but what, what's selling in the shops? Like, what should you be bringing to them? 'cause that's how you make money. [00:06:45]Joe Earley: And it's, it was a great, um, great business. Loved it still. In fact, my, my former agency, a fellow who worked for me runs it now. Um, so still, still exists. Um, great. Interacting with the retailers. 'cause what's great about the cycling industry is that the. The retailers and the shop owners. In the shop buyers, they are the market. You know, they're kind of like me and you. They got into it 'cause they, they like cycling. There's not a lot of people in the cycling industry that. Oh, well, I just, I, I wanted to, you know, start a, a great business and make millions of dollars, so I'm gonna go sell bikes, right? It's just not that type of market. So, um, you know, you're interacting with people who get the product, they get what is exciting to their consumers. Um, and so that was, that was a great learning experience just overall about products and demand and what. Selling through products. Um, you know, and we consistently see our retailers and they have sold a pair of sunglasses. And as we were talking to them, the feedback was if they had something that was nice at a, at a lower price point, they thought they could sell, you know, more products. Um, at the same time, you know, I knew lots of reps in other territories, so we just started calling other reps in other territories going, Hey, Do you see something like this? And at the time, um, what we were focused on was the interchangeable sunglasses. So in, in mountain biking and cycling in general, the idea of being able to, to swap your lenses out quickly and easily and have those in a package, um, it was available. But the brands that was available in it was generally a hundred to 150 or $200 or more. Um, [00:08:16]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, and it feels like a lot of times you would buy the glass and you'd have to buy the lens separately, so it wasn't just $150, it was $210. All [00:08:23]Joe Earley: even the brand I was selling at the time, you know, I'm going to them going, Hey guys, just give me a product that comes with the lenses and retails at even a hundred. And I could sell quite a few of these. And so our idea was to come to the market with three lenses and be able to retail it at $50 or $60. And um, you know, we talked to other reps and other territories and consistently feedback was, no, they don't see something like this. Or, yeah, there's something there, but it's. It's just not very nice. Um, and meanwhile, there was a, a large e-commerce retailer that a lot of you guys knew in the day and, and still exists now, but performance bike was based in my territory. So they had a big mail order component and they had about a hundred stores and they were doing it. They had a sunglass that had three lenses and a case, and it retail for about 50 bucks. We can do it. It's gotta be there somewhere. So, um, In 2003, we, we said, okay, let's do it ourselves. 2002, we made the decision. We went over and, and found some sourcing and, um, we brought I think a total of 23 SKUs, 24 SKUs to market that first year. Um, [00:09:26]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I was gonna ask, how did you, I mean that there's a, it's a big step between here and there, which is like, okay, we have this idea, we think a price point is viable at 50, $79, whatever it was at the time. But actually sourcing glasses, you're an enthusiast, your wife's an enthusiast, you understand the market. It was not gonna be feasible for you to put out, you know, super low quality glass. And have any vision for OSI surviving is that, how did you get to creating a product that met your own expectations as well as the price [00:09:58]Joe Earley: Yeah. So, um, you know, we made a trip. I made a trip. She ran everything here. Um, went to a huge optical show over in, uh, in Hong Kong actually, and met with, had to be 300 different suppliers, factories there. And, uh, had the concept of what we wanted. Had kind of the, the three lens, had some examples of what we were looking for and just literally went and met with every single one of them there over a, a four day, uh, trade show. And we found. Three, maybe four, that we thought could do the quality and had the products. And we started with, you know, open mold products. So we said, Hey, we're looking for products that already exist like this. And, um, we found those. We, we quickly even starting in, you know, late in year one, we started developing our own. Molds in our own products, our own designs, but we started with things we negotiated and exclusive for North America with them and said, Hey, don't sell these to other people. We like this design. And we brought, uh, a collection to market from there. Um, we've been very, very fortunate in that, um, you know, one of those partners that we started with in 2003, I. Is a partner we still work with today. So we've got longstanding relationships. All of our products are, are made in Taiwan, um, not in mainland China, but, uh, well all with the exception of one. We do have one product, uh, our aviator that's made there 'cause there's no metal production of sunglasses generally in Taiwan. Um, but uh, yeah, we, we were really fortunate to partner with somebody there and then started quickly trying to develop our, some proprietary products thereafter. But, uh, we were fortunate that we had the sales apparatus with the. The sales agency that we kind of knew how to sell things. And Elizabeth, my wife, was running, uh, an east coast warehouse for one of our companies. Um, so she already knew the pick pack shipping operation side of things. So we, all we needed was the product fortunately, um, to kind of [00:11:46]Craig Dalton (host): Question for you on that, on that product, Joe, I always think about sort of the lenses and the quality of lenses being important for cycling, right? We all wanna feel confident that if a rock hits us, it's not gonna break, et cetera. I. Was that were the lens quality already there with these manufacturers? They understood like they need a high impact lens. [00:12:06]Joe Earley: Yeah, I mean, uh, the, the, the idea of a polycarbonate lens, uh, which is what we source on most of the products we do, we offer shatterproof product lenses on all of them. Some of our photochromics use a little bit different material. Um, 'cause of the technologies involved, but they're all shatterproof. You know, you can hit 'em with a hammer, they won't break. That technology was there. Um, and you'd be shocked at, you know, the higher end brands, high price brands that are being made in, in those facilities already. Um, so we, we knew from, hey, what they're already making, they can make the quality we're looking for. [00:12:39]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. [00:12:40]Joe Earley: we were, we were fortunate in that standpoint. We did learn a lot about lenses 'cause. You know, for instance, our first polarized products that we offered, we were using a, what's called a tack lens, which is not something we were recommending recycling at the time. Um, we moved outta that just in year two, just because it's, it doesn't have as much impact protection as like what we have with all the products now, but the lens quality and the impact protection from like the interchangeable sets, um, it was there. [00:13:06]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, and this is really rounding out the OSI story for me. 'cause knowing that you guys were within the industry and were independent reps and. Intended on going into the bike, local bike shops from the get go is super interesting. So I, I presume sort of in those first years you were able to kind of tap into obviously your, the local southeast region where you already had a lot of personal connections, but it also sounds like you had connections in other regions to sign up other independent reps to start putting the product [00:13:35]Joe Earley: know, it's a, it is a relationship business in cycling. Um, you know, I, I both, we sold it in the southeast with our agency, but then we were able to contact, we knew who the good sales reps were. I. In all the other territories. Um, now it's a, as a pioneering brand that didn't have sales, that was a challenge to get, you know, good reps on board. But we were really blessed, um, and that we were having really good success with it. Here we got a, I think we only started with six territories, um, to begin with. Um, so call it six or eight total reps, you know. Now on the cycling side of things, we probably have at least 35 ish. In that space. So we started small with that, but we went from zero to 500 retailers in the very first year. Um, just word of mouth, the retailers, word of mouth with the, the reps, you know, when we place the product in the retail stores, they started checking it right away and at a very high turn, generally in the same, you know, retail location, we're gonna sell seven or eight times as fast as their $150 sunglasses that they carry. Um, so we were very fortunate in that. And so we went from 500 dealers to a thousand and now, In the US we have about 3,500 retailers, um, doors that carry the product, and that's in the cycling space, which we're the number one market share. We have about 74% of the market, um, in cycling specialty stores. So seven and a half, 10 pair of sunglasses they sell. S um, but we're, you know, a top brand in the running space, uh, in outdoor we're carried in every R e I location out there. Uh, we actually have a really strong business, um, in the golf, golf arena. Um, we saw that as an adjacency, and so we're primarily focused on sport products. Um, but you know, cycling was kind of where we started and where still our largest kind of single market in the US is today. But we have distribution now in about. 35 other countries. Um, and almost all of those are cycling, um, specific types of distributors. [00:15:28]Craig Dalton (host): Got it. How, how, when did you sort of, uh, extend beyond the initial cycling industry and kind of go into running and multisport? [00:15:38]Joe Earley: um, we, we actually, so running was, was adjacent, but we really didn't, we didn't know it. Um, we had, uh, a lot, quite a few of our, a couple of our reps were doing Sego in the day and Sego was a strong cycling brand, but they had a very strong running apparel brand. And, um, almost by accident we had some reps who were doing Sego already. And so they're calling on run stores and so they just started pitching to FCI to them and they started picking 'em up and they were selling 'em, and they were like, we didn't even realize that. I think M P D came to us maybe back in, which is a, used to be, it's a. Retail reporting software, a company that, that collects retail data. It was probably 2006 or 2007. We were the number one market share in running specialty stores, and we didn't even know it. Um, our market share was actually stronger than it was in in Pike. Uh, it was just a smaller market. There's not as many, uh, Running specialty doors, is there our cycling doors? Um, so it really started even, you... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28079475

Gray Duck Grit: Unleashing Your Endurance in the Driftless Region of Minnesota 09/12/2023

Gray Duck Grit: Unleashing Your Endurance in the Driftless Region of Minnesota Looking for a unique and challenging gravel cycling experience? Look no further! In this episode of the podcast, host Craig Dalton introduces the founders of Gray Duck Grit, an exciting grass roots gravel cycling event in Southern Minnesota. Joining Craig are Kris Jesse, Nate Matson, and Mark Jesse, who share their passion for gravel cycling and the origin story behind Gray Duck Grit. Kris Jesse discusses her journey into gravel cycling, inspired by a friend's social media post, and her background in distance running. Mark Jesse, having participated in the Day Across Minnesota event and other ultra-endurance events, shares his love for gravel cycling's magical moments in solitude. They also delve into the details of the challenging 240-mile Day Across Minnesota event, which takes riders on a scenic route from Gary, South Dakota, to Hager City, Wisconsin. The founders highlight the unique aspects of , including atypical distances and the creation of an ultra-endurance event. They discuss the beautiful terrain of the Driftless region near Northfield, Minnesota, where the event takes place, and the challenges riders may face, such as unpredictable weather and relentless winds. The episode wraps up with a discussion about the event's inclusive atmosphere, its charitable aspect in supporting Fraser of Minnesota, and a warm invitation to join the Gray Duck Grit experience. Topics discussed: Introduction of Gray Duck Grit founders The inspiration behind Gray Duck Grit The Day Across Minnesota event The challenging terrain of the Driftless region Weather conditions and preparation Inclusivity and the event's charitable aspect If you're a gravel cyclist seeking an unforgettable adventure and an opportunity to push your limits, Gray Duck Grit is the event for you. With its scenic routes, challenging terrain, and an inclusive atmosphere, this event promises an experience like no other. So, buckle up, find some dirt under your wheels, and join the Gray Duck Grit community. Episode Sponsor: (code: THEGRAVELRIDE for 15% off all plans) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:28]Craig Dalton (host): This week on the podcast. I welcome the founders of a grassroots cycling event in Southern Minnesota called gray duck grit. It's happening this upcoming October 6th and seventh. Yes. I said two dates in there because there's multiple distances. They're offering a 333 mile race, a 222 mile race. Uh, 111 mile race. And a 69 mile race. Each of these distances has a significance. That we'll learn about during the conversation with this trio. This is the first time I've had three guests on at one time. There's a lot of fun. I wanted to push the podcast out as early as possible. To give anybody in the Southern Minnesota and surrounding area, an opportunity to jump on this event. It looks like a lot of fun. It's presented by the angry catfish bicycle shop and has a lot of great local sponsors and supports a great cause. Before we jump in i do need to thank this week sponsor dynamic cyclist The team at dynamic cyclists offers video based stretching and strengthening and mobility routines focused on cyclists. As you can imagine from their name. They just recently dropped an updated injury prevention program. The one I like to follow, which is the six week low back injury prevention program. It's always timely. Getting an update from my friends at dynamic cyclists. Because it reminds me that I have absolutely no excuse. To not fit these 10 to 15 minute routines into my day. I waste 10 or 15 minutes doing something not productive for my body. So it's a constant reminder that I should be stretching. I've dedicated myself this year to try to strengthen my lower back. In particular to improve my longevity as a cyclist for these long gravel cycling events. And I've found the stretching routines, particularly the injury prevention routines of dynamic cyclists to be super helpful. It's very focused on what we need as gravel, cyclists for me. It's tight hip flexors. It bands everything around my low back seems to draw everything in a tight bundle if I'm not careful. So having access to a content catalog of different stretching routines has been super important to me and motivating to just kind of frankly, get off my ass. And do the stretching I need to do. If you're interested in giving it a shot, dynamic cyclist always offers free access to, I think, a week's worth of content. For you to check out what they're doing. I'm on an annual plan. If you're interested, just use the code, the gravel ride, and you'll get 15% off. You can do month by month. If you're just someone who wants to do it in the winter. Or they've got a pretty affordable annual plan. That's just kind of the easiest thing to do. To make sure it's always there. When you need it. So head on over to dynamic cyclists.com and remember the code, the gravel ride for 15% off. So with that business behind us, I want to welcome mark Jesse, Chris, Jesse, and Nate Mattson to the show. Hey guys, welcome to the show [00:03:44]Kris Jesse: Thank you. It's great being here. . [00:03:47]craig_dalton-q2xxdhaa3__raw-audio_gray-duck-grit-ii_2023-sep-06-1110pm_the_gravel ride pod: So let's get started by just, let's go around the room, maybe starting with Chris and just talk about, um, a little bit about your backstory and then we can get into, I'm going to blub it, flub it every time. Gray duck grit. [00:04:03]Kris Jesse: Great at grit. You got it. Um, I would love to start. Uh, it's kind of funny. Um, I fell into gravel cycling from, um, just seeing a post on Facebook. A friend of mine, he was going to ride this crazy ride across Minnesota. 20 some miles, um, called, um, the dam day across Minnesota. And, um, my background really is, uh, distance running. And so that is where I came from. Um, that's my passion. Um, I'm reaching Saturday. I'm heading to Utah tomorrow now, where it'll be my almost 40th marathon. And so I'm really, uh. runner at heart. And I thought, Ooh, I can do this, this gravel, uh, cycling. And so, um, after seeing his post, signed up quickly and then did my first 50 mile gravel ride and sold my race registration for that long one. So really it is, uh, that's kind of my cycling, uh, background a couple of years ago, but now just fell in love with it. Like it's my peaceful time. Um, uh, as you'll hear, Minnesota has amazing gravel, uh, to ride and to be, um, had, and so I just love it. I'm falling in love with it and kind of transitioning to just cycling. So that's my, my background. Um, [00:05:24]Craig Dalton (host): Well, I've got lots of questions about Minnesota, I'm going to table them for a minute to allow everybody to introduce themselves. So Nate, how about you? How did you get into cycling? Do you have a running background as well? [00:05:35]Nate Matson: Uh, wow. I do actually a little bit. Um, so I actually have a triathlon slash running background and, uh, it's kind of a curious fitness person and I, I fell into gravel cycling because I got injured and I couldn't run, so I leaned more into cycling. And through this one specific friend of mine, he, he also did the dam the day across Minnesota. And he was like, yo man, you should come out with me and we'll start gravel cycling together. So I got in with him, we started going out almost every weekend. And that is how I met Mark was actually on a gravel ride. So there you go. And, uh, I can run now, but I run a lot less and I cycle a lot more. [00:06:23]Craig Dalton (host): All right, Mark, your turn. [00:06:25]Mark Jesse: Yeah, I, uh, you know, Chris, Chris is a friend of ours who, who did sign up for the dam. Um, that was sort of my introduction to gravel cycling as well. Um, and, uh, it just. I went out and participated in the dam and 2019 that was my first big ultra endurance events and gravel cycling. Prior to that, it was a 50 miler with alongside Chris, as she mentioned, and it was. During that 2019 day across Minnesota that I realized how magical gravel cycling is and, um, you know, being in the middle of nowhere, not having any bearings as to what direction you were headed. All I knew is I was following, following this trail of blinking red lights and, um, it was, I would look up and all I could see were stars and it was one of the most magical. Moments I've ever experienced on a bike and yeah, go ahead. [00:07:31]Craig Dalton (host): Amazing. I'd love to just learn a little bit more about Day Across Minnesota, because that seems like it's, you know, it's the origin story of, for the three of you, and it sounds like you had friends who were drawing you into it. How long of a ride is it? And what is it? What is the experience like? [00:07:46]Mark Jesse: It's, it's a 240 mile distance. It starts in, it started, um, it is no longer for the record. Um, but when, when it was in existence, it started in Gary, South Dakota, and you would make your way across the state of Minnesota and you would end up in Hager city, Wisconsin, um, and Trenton Ragar is the. Race director. He is also the current race director of the filthy 50, which he was his first events. And, um, and I believe that started in 2013, um, uh, the filthy 50. So the dam was a five year event that took place and I participated in 2019 and 2020. [00:08:28]Craig Dalton (host): Okay. And how long does an event like that take a sort of average cyclist? [00:08:34]Mark Jesse: Well, you know, my first year, it took me 22 and a half hours. Uh, there is a cutoff, um, of 24 hours. So the expectation is that you would, to get an official finish time, right? You would need to finish, it starts at midnight on Friday and it would end on mid at midnight the, uh, the following day, Saturday. So that was the format. Um, and it was, it was pretty, it was a pretty amazing event. [00:09:00]craig_dalton-q2xxdhaa3__raw-audio_gray-duck-grit-ii_2023-sep-06-1110pm_the_gravel ride pod: And with those kind of early experiences that drew you into the sport, did you subsequently travel outside Minnesota to do events to kind of get an idea of what the flavor was in other territories? Or have you mostly been participating in Minnesota based events? [00:09:15]Mark Jesse: I. Haven't done a ton of official, uh, races or events outside of Minnesota. I did the Redfield Rock, Redfield Rock and Roll down in Iowa, my hometown or my home state, um, last year, and that was a heck of a challenge. Um, but I did a lot of other, um, I did some gravel cycling in Florida. I've done some gravel cycling in California and, um, mountain biking, uh, in Arizona and Oregon and places like that. Um, so I've done. Um, some cycling, some pretty long distances as well, um, over several days, but nothing necessarily official in other states as of yet, but I definitely plan on doing more of that because how can you not, there's just so much to be had now, right? [00:09:59]Kris Jesse: hmm. [00:10:04]Craig Dalton (host): to those longer Distance events right from the get go, whereas a lot of people come into the sports, you know, being conjoled to do their first 25 miler and then 50 miler, et cetera. So it's going to be interesting as we talk about your event, the distances that you offer as they're a little bit atypical from what I see out there in the world, with the exception of some of the, you know, the well known ultra endurance races. [00:10:30]Mark Jesse: Well, I think that has a little bit to do with our running background. Um, I, I also came from the running background. I, I have 17 marathons under my belt, I guess. Um, so the, our fitness level was there, I think. And so it was a, it was a, wasn't the difficult transition to make, um, because we had motors. We just had to. You know, adjust the legs a little bit and get those legs and those muscles used to pedaling as opposed to running. So it wasn't a difficult transition. And I grew up on bikes, typical 80s era child did, you know, so. You know, it wasn't, I was very comfortable on the dirt growing up in Iowa on a, on a giant RS 940, 12 speed on gravel was a lot more difficult than riding a high end carbon gravel bike on, on, you know, the gravel around most anywhere else. Right. [00:11:28]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, for What made you guys think about coming together to put an event on? I mean, you've participated in events, you've seen the hard work, but there has to be something that really made you have this burning desire to put in the hard hours, the money, etc., to create an event. [00:11:48]Nate Matson: I'm going to give this to Mark, but I just want to say before he gives a very official answer that we were, we were just having a lot of fun riding our bikes together, you know, and, uh, we, we knew that we were riding with some really good people and we just loved, loved that the way it made us feel. And, uh, I saw marketing sort of a glimmer in his eye. So when, so when he started talking about this ride, uh, when he invited me to be part of it, it was not really, I mean, it was a surprise, but it also oddly made sense to, [00:12:26]Craig Dalton (host): Got it. [00:12:27]Mark Jesse: Yeah, that was, you know, I didn't know what was going to come of this idea I had to, um, consider doing something like this. Um, you know, it all, it all went, it all dates back to, so the, here's the official origin, uh, origin story going back to 2018, I was running the Anchorage. Anchorage mayor's marathon in Anchorage, Alaska, along with Chris here. And I was experiencing some heartburn, um, during the first few miles and it, and it subsided, I took some Tom's because Chris would, would carry Tom's with her as, as we run marathons. And so I took some times it subsided, but, um. And, and I ended up finishing, but I was really sluggish. Um, and when I finished the, the world was spinning. I thought I was going to kind of faint or pass out, but I just sat next to a food truck and gathered my bearings. But to make a long story short, about two weeks later, I went for a run, just a recovery run. Um, that was maybe a week later and I ran two blocks and I. Thought my heart was gonna pop outta my chest. It was just not good. And I knew something wasn't right. So I, I went to the doctor and, um, it, it, I just ended up having, um, essentially I was diagnosed with a 90% blockage of my coronary artery. And, and here I ran that marathon with that blockage. Um, so, you know, it was a miracle that I even survived it. And, um, had a, had a stent placement. Um, and I. Fully recovered, but it was during that when they were reading, anytime you go in for something like this, they, they read all the possible outcomes and that really freaked me out. I, I, and so I made this promise to myself that if I, if I make it through that. I want to focus more, not just on myself and to, you know, be in better health. It was a genetic thing for me. It wasn't because of my diet. It wasn't because of my fitness, I wanted to do more for others while I had this time, um, available to me moving forward and. I didn't know what that meant, but I knew that I wanted to do something. And so then it was just a couple of years later, um, doing the dam, I wanted to prove to myself that, Hey, I'm not, I'm not be, you know, I'm not too far gone. I can still do this. You know, I'm not, I don't, I didn't want to live my life in fear of never being able to participate in something I loved, which was that, that endurance, um, activity, because, you know, it was through running that I fell in love with endurance sports. Um, not just what it does for me physically, but it's, it's cathartic, it's therapeutic, you know, um, just like it is for people who ride bikes, you get out there and, and you forget, and you, and you solve a lot of the problems that you're, you're going through and that you're experiencing. Um, it's just a very special thing to experience. And so, um. That was the, the, um, the start of it really. And, um, COVID came and went, I saw some events come and go. And then the day across Minnesota, the, the gravel event that really, um, caused me to fall in love with gravel cycling, um, they announced Trenton announced that it would be their last event in 2021. And, um, or their last year of doing it. And I just felt like, you know what, there was a void that could be filled. And, and we are by. No means trying to be the damn, um, that isn't our intent, nor is that our goal. But I do feel like there is a demographic of, of cyclists out there that would truly appreciate what I appreciated in, in doing an event that is an ultra endurance events. So that's what we have created. And. Um, it started out by doing some Strava group rides with some of the friends that I, I, I followed on Strava. I announced it, um, a couple of weekly rides and lo and behold, I, I, I met some new people. Um, and I met Nate, I met a guy named Greg Simogyi, um, in the process. Sam and some other people. And, um, it was just a great experience just meeting these people who basically we like the same band, you know, and you're not strangers when you like the same band, you know what I mean? [00:17:00]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for sharing that story, Mark, and thank God you're still around to share it. It is a takeaway, I think, for all of us to think about, you know, how big of a void, if you're an endurance athletic participant, how big a void it create in your life. To not be able to do that thing, because as you stated eloquently, for so many of us, it's rolling meditation. It's where we process a lot of things that go on in our lives. And I know as someone who's faced challenges in my life, like the idea of managing the rest of my life without endurance athletics would be a real difficult pill to swallow. [00:17:44]Mark Jesse: Exactly. I mean, when I'm having a tough day, when I'm stressed out, the very first thing I think about as, as far as how am I going to deal with this, this stress, this anxiety, this pressure I'm feeling, I got to get on my bike. I got to go. And it's, it's the pressure relief valve. Um, you know, radiators have them. Why can't we have them? Um, so, um, you know, it's, it's, um, you know, on, on those days I go out on my bike or when I was running, I'd go run and I finish up, you know, after 25, 30 miles on my bike, it's rainbows and butterflies after that. So, um, it feels good. [00:18:23]Craig Dalton (host): there something specific about Northfield, Minnesota? Is that where y'all live? Or is it just where you knew of amazing terrain? [00:18:34]Nate Matson: I'll, I'll take this one and Mark, please interject or Chris. Um, so Northfield is awesome. First of all, it's a great, it's a great little city that it's a college town with. Coffee shops and a lot of green space, and there's a great bike biking culture there. Um, but it's also close to what is known as the Driftless region, uh, of Minnesota, which basically, uh, it's not just Minnesota, by the way, it's Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, parts of Illinois. And basically there were icebergs around this part of the world, uh, uh, during the ice age, except in the Driftless area, there weren't, so it's a very like specific little region. And that is full of caves and rivers and valleys and buttes and really, I think it has like more freshwater streams than anywhere else in the country. And it's just like this little pocket, this little area and Northfield sits right on the edge of that. So... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/28005312

Made Handmade Bike Show part 2 09/05/2023

Made Handmade Bike Show part 2 This week’s episode is part 2 of our interviews from the Made Bike Show in August 2023. We speak with Moots, Fat Chance, Hot Salad, Seeker, Neuhaus, Pinebury, Circa, Story Street, Paul’s Components, Stinner, Horse, Frameworks and Bosch. Episode Sponsor: Karoo 2 (promo code:THEGRAVELRIDE) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I've got round two of my interviews from the made bike show in Portland, Oregon. In this week's episode, we've got John from moots. It's talking about that seven 50 B wheel size got Chris from fat chance. Be vivid from hot salad. Chris McGovern from seeker and McGovern cycles. Nick new house, the pine Berry team, circa story street. Paul's components, Aaron from Stenner. A horse. Frameworks Bosch. We've got it all. Another exciting episode. Can I tell you how jazz that was to attend this show and get all these great interviews And I guarantee I'll have some of them on, for longer form interviews so we can get an even deeper dive as to their backstory and what they're all about as a brand. And frame builder. Before we jump in, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor hammerhead. And the hammerhead crew to computer. As many of you wind down your advent seasons, you may be looking forward to a winter filled with exploration and adventure rides. And there's no better device than the hammerhead crew too, for those adventures. It's the most advanced GPS cycling computer available today with industry leading mapping navigation and routing capabilities that set it apart from other GPS had units. You can seamlessly import. Roots from Strava commute and more you can route and reroute on the fly and create pin dropping routing with all with turn by turn directions. With upcoming elevation changes. You know, this device is always up to date with the latest software as they do biweekly software updates, making sure that they're adding the latest features, whether you bought the device two years ago or tomorrow, you're ready to go with a hammerhead kuru too. For a limited time, our listeners can get a free heart rate monitor with the purchase of the crew to visit hammerhead. Dot IO right now and use the code, the gravel ride. At checkouts today, it's an exclusive limited time offer for our podcast listeners. So don't forget that promo code. Just add the heart rate, monitor to your cart, along with the crew too, and use the code, the gravel ride today. With that said let's jump right in to all these conversations from the made bike show in portland oregon [00:02:48] Jon | Moots: Can I get your name and brand? John Caribou from moots based outta Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Good to see you again, John. You too. One of the like, moots doesn't need a lot to draw attention to itself. The titanium frames have always been gorgeous. We've had you on the pod. I've toured the factory. I know the type of work you do, but one of the bikes you have today is making a lot of noise here at the Maid show for a very specific reason. Can you talk about that? Yeah. It's Yeah very much in prototype stage right now. But the seven 50 D wheel size seems to be catching a lot of people interest and, comments out there on the social medias. But yeah, it's, I think it just lends itself to the lineage and the heritage of Moots over time. Just always being on that forefront of innovation and trying different things. It doesn't mean that. This is a defacto new standard by any stretch. It's definitely a new option and honestly that, that wheel size been, has been ridden for some over the last four to five years. We just haven't seen it. Gotcha. And you W t B was the partner who came to you with the rim and the tire, presumably, to explore this. People who've been around mountain bikes for a while will remember that. 26 to 29 moments. Can you talk about what's the rationale behind a bigger wheel size? Yeah. It's, to me being around the industry long enough, I do remember the introduction of the 29, and it was the same company that, W t V that came to us with a rim and a tire at, in 98 and said, what do you think about this? Let's, do you want to build maybe a test bike? And we all know, the. History of the 29 inch proliferation in the bike world, and not that this is gonna happen there, but always nice to be nimble enough to set up and build a frame around a given wheel size. And Moots is in that position to be able to do that. Yeah I remember that moment and getting on the first 29 ERs and thinking it took a little bit more to get the wheel going, but when you rolled over stuff and when you had those bikes going, It was remarkable for me and I was a very early convert to that bigger wheel size. So it's just a curious kind of intellectual process I'm going through and understanding like, what would a gravel bike feel like as someone who rides very technical terrain, I could see the advantages of rolling over stuff more easily. And you mentioned the contact patch extending on a bigger wheel and what that might mean to the rider. Yeah, I think it's, if you think about. Riding gravel. There's not a lot of extremely technical situations where you're making hard turns. It's a lot of straight line speed. It's a lot of straight line hits to the outer edge of the tire and rim combination at that point. So making it longer and, quite a bit bigger, spreads that out and lessens, washboard, it lessens baby heads and whatever you might encounter. In a similar passion that the 29 did for the mountain bike world. Yeah, I think it's just been really interesting as gravel you could argue that it started out as being road bikes plus as we started to allow bigger tires in there and explore different terrain. But it's super interesting as we get into this moment many years into the gravel evolution, to start just exploring things differently and thinking about, yeah, it doesn't need to feel like a road bike as you're going faster and these bikes are getting more capable. Who knows, maybe a bigger tire size and bigger start, a bigger ring rim size will have advantages that riders will start to see as they start to spend time on this new size. Yeah it'll be interesting and, we're anxious to put more time on it. Honestly our time has been limited, but we're getting there and, throughout this fall, late summer, we'll be logging miles and jotting down our thoughts and getting feedback to W T B and. Anybody that would be interested in listening. Yeah. Amazing. Thanks John. I can't wait for that additional feedback. Yeah, Craig, thanks for having us. [00:06:54] Chris | Fat Chance: Okay. Can I get your name and the brand? Yeah. The name is Chris Chance and the brand is Fat Chance Bikes. We're now building all our bikes in Medford, Oregon. Got a nicely set up shop there and we've just introduced the Thai crisscross, been doing it in steel for a number of years and I'm really excited to be doing it in titanium and the people that have been buying them are really excited to ride them. Were you working with titanium with the mountain bikes many years ago to begin with? Yes. Yeah, we started in 93, building a titanium yoti. Okay. Called it a fat chance back then. But yeah, so we built a bunch of titanium bikes and getting back into, you know, relaunching the brand. A couple of years ago we were mostly doing steel, but you know, Ty really called me back. What do you like about Ty for for a gravel bike purpose? Well, in general I love Thai because, you know, it never rusts. It's got a nice kind of springy resilience to it. I I like to do the engineering where we're, I have much experience in steel in designing bikes and tube diameters and wall thicknesses to get the, the, the ride properties I want, the the resilience, the, the stiffness where I want it, and the, just the lively feel in the bike. And so I I translate the stiffness of a steel tube into titanium using a computer, and that way you get all the benefits of titanium. It's lightness, it's kind of springy feel, but I'm designing the bike more for the stiffness of the ride. So it gives you the performance you want as you're riding, like, especially like off road, you know, if you're going down a, say a trail at like as much as 30 miles an hour, your bike is, you know, bouncing around or whatever, and you're just focused on where the front wheel is going. But if you're bouncing around a bunch, your body is taking information from what the rear wheel is doing through your feet and you, without really being conscious of it, you're doing the corrections of that through the pedals, cranks and, and frame to the wheel to keep the rubber side down. And so how the bike feels is just really important to me that I want to have the rider and the bike work as one. Right. And so having that, that ability to Sense what the bike is doing at some, like, not even a conscious level, but developing the trust that the bike is there for you, you know, you can do what you wanna do and the bike is, is supporting you and having that peak experience. What is the customer journey to get a, a fat chance at this point? Is it, is it a custom process? Are you building stock frames? We built stock frames, but we do some custom sizing and you can you can email us at yo at Fat Chance Bike. And get the conversation started. There's also a phone number on our website, fat chance.bike. It's do bike instead of.com and we can talk on the phone, we can do email and just get everything nailed and build you an awesome bike. I know some of the, you know, challenges in working with titanium tubes are around tire clearance and things like that. Yeah. What, what kind of tire clearance can you achieve? Yeah, so we can do pretty much any tire clearance, if you notice on this spike. We have what we call a demi yolk. Yep. And that affords us the same rigidity, excuse me that a full tube would, would offer, but gives us the, the clearance for wide tires. Like this bike will take up to like a, a 44 millimeter 700 C or a 2.1 up to two inches or 2.1 inches. And if you need to write a double, we can account for that. Typically our stock bikes are just one buys up front. Got it. But we have a lot of room because we're using this demi oak design. And what kind of turnaround time do you look at to get a bike? Yeah. Right now we're in the roughly eight to 12 weeks, depending on the model. Okay. Yeah. Pretty quick. Yeah. That's great. Thanks Chris. All right. [00:10:36] B Vivid | Hot Salad Bicycles: Can I get your name and brand? Yes. It's B Vivid from Hot Salad Bicycles B. Where are you building out of? We're here in Portland. Okay. Yeah. And how did you get into Frame Building? Oh, long story. Give us a short version. We can have you back for the long form one. Okay. I used to sit at Destroy Bike Co in the Bay Area and Sean Eagleton was building bikes there and I was like, this is a thing, I can build bikes. That is absolutely what I'm doing. 15 years later, here I am debuting hot salad bicycles. And I've been chasing welding all over the country. Amazing. So you've built up your expertise and now you're ready to go out with hot salad. Yes, exactly. So you're a custom builder. So talk about the customer journey. Like how do you like to get to know the customer so that you can build the bike that's right for them? What kind of materials do you use? Yeah, so I build in steel and titanium. And I like to talk to the customer. We have quite a few emails back and forth. I would just wanna know where you're riding. Like what are you riding on? What do you like to ride fast? Is that a thing? Do what is your current favorite bike that you like to ride? And then what don't you like about that bike? Yeah. Those are the basics. If we're having that conversation, just say, for example I've been on like a random carbon bike, some specialized bike, and I like the way it feels. Sometimes I, even me, I have a hard time articulating like, what is it that I like or what have I, what I don't like? How do you eke out those qualities that then translate to you as an artisan giving me what I really am expressing? Absolutely. I do some research, right? I go look at that specialized bike and I see what specialize is saying about it. But I also know the inherent differences between carbon, titanium, steel, right? Titanium is gonna be a little flexer. So if we're trying to make a carbon feel, which is what Rook asked for on her bike you're gonna have to go up a tube size right. And that's gonna make it a little bit stiffer, give you that snappier ride quality of a carbon bike when Ty is so much flexer. Gotcha. So there's just small things like that where over the years I collected those tidbits from other builders and other people who are willing to gimme time. Amazing. Yeah. And what type of bikes do you like to build? All types. I'm down for the weird ideas. I built that titanium clunker behind you as well that I showed at Philly Bike Expo. And then this is a beautiful all road that wanted to be a little bit more aggressive because Rook is an excellent rider. And I make commuter bikes. I just making, so it doesn't really matter what type of bike it is. And from a customer interaction, how long does it take to get a bike? Once they've, once you've locked down the design elements of it, you've done your research. How long does it take to produce a bike and get it back out to the customer? Yeah, probably about a month. And I know that's a long time, but I'm currently doing all of my own finish work as well. So unless you want me to send it to Black Magic or something like that. And then it could be probably as little as two weeks. And how do you think about finish work? Are you doing your own painting or are you doing anodizing? What kind of options do you make available for customers? Depends on the material, obviously. Yeah. But I have a powder coder who is excellent and he can do fades, he can do sharp lines. And then I also have, I do. I did the t anodizing on this as well. And then, yeah, those are the two options that I currently offer, but I'm hoping to add wet paint in the nearest future. Okay. Okay. And what's the best way for people to find out more about the brand and your story? Yeah, hot salad bicycles.com. Okay. And are you on Instagram and any, the socials? I'm hot salad underscore bicycles on Instagram. Got it. Thanks for the time. B Yeah, thank you. [00:14:06] Chris | Seeker & McGovern: Can I get your name and brand? Chris McGovern. And now what brand are you gonna say? That's my question. We're here with Seeker right now. We do have a McGovern bike in the house, but we're launching Seeker bike company today. Yeah. That's awesome. So McGovern bikes, custom carbon bikes. Yep. Great looking stuff. You've been building for a while. Yep. But we got these seekers in front of us. So tell me about the brand. The intention and what we're doing here. Yeah. Basically with these metal bikes, the steel and titanium gravel bikes, I'm just trying to get, basically make it more available, get people on bikes, on building more readily available, easier to do. Obviously the materials are superior. Materials for riding gravel, the carbon customer is a different customer, basically, yeah. Where are you building these bikes? These are be, these are being built in the, in Portland. Oregon. Okay. At the moment they're going to be built in Olympia, Washington eventually. But yeah, US made, yeah. And what's the customer journey look like? Or do you have stock sizes? Is this a custom jam? Yeah, so we're gonna do stock with custom options, basically. Okay. So the geo will be stock 50 to 60 centimeters and two centimeter increments. But we can customize anything. So I want you to go to the website, be like, yep, I'm a 54. I want that stock color. I want that build kit. Boom. And we're gonna try to have that two week turnaround. And when I think about my, like tire size desires and things like that, do you have flexibility there or have you built around a particular tire vision? So the gravel this version of bike is designed around a 45 C 700 by 45 and up to a 46 tooth single ring. So it could be two by or one by. Gotcha. But I want you to be able to do unbound and throw the big meat on if you're rolling, if you're Keegan Swenson or whatever, you wanna roll that big single Yeah. With the the mullet build or the Explorer build, whatever. Yeah. We want to have that clearance for that. So we've designed around that. Yeah. And you mentioned you're offering a steel bike and a tie bike. What do we see different visually between the two bikes and what sort of adaptations do you make going to tie from the steel? So on. What we see here basically is the same geometry, same style. We have a different seat stay cluster on this one. I do think that the tie bike will end up being the mono stay, like the steel. Okay. We're just need, we're working on repeatability of that. Tie's a little bit trickier to bend but we're gonna do that, I'm pretty sure. The same weeding of the tubes, the down tube is swedged for a little bit to the T 47 bottom bracket. So it's a little stiffer, laterally, 44 mil head tubes. The geometry will be very similar. The, if you've ridden tie, the ride quality is a little bit different. Yeah. Titanium's kind of like air quotes, the forever material. So that's why the tie offering is there. It's a different customer again. Nice. Yeah. Let's talk quickly, Chris, about the origin of the Seeker brand. 'cause I do remember this project at the very earliest start of Covid. Yeah. Lockdowns. Yeah I've, okay. I've been riding bikes for a million years and your brain goes in weird places when you're riding your bike all the time by yourself. And I've had this saddlebag designed in my head forever, and usually just meant I'd come home from a training ride and get the scissors out and chop on the bag I was currently using. And during Covid, for whatever reason, I just decided I got on Amazon, ordered a sewing machine, bought some fabric, and started making saddlebag. I love it. And it turned out to be really good. Some people wanted it, so I made some for some friends and then I was like, oh, I'm gonna get some labels. And I actually was labeling them as McGovern cycles thinking, Hey, when someone buys a bike, I'm going to throw a saddle bag in their box. Yeah. And then bike shops wanted 'em and I was like, ah, it's gotta be something else. So we came up with the seeker logo. I worked on the artwork with Matt Loomis, who's done a bunch of work with Paul Components. We came up with this cool logo. And the people like it. Like we've been selling a lot of t-shirts and stuff and so I felt oh, this branding is strong. Let's do some bikes. Yeah. I think it's super evocative seeker. Yeah. Exploration. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Are you I've seen you explore a lot of different bag. Options for your running. Yeah. For various things. Yeah. Are you now just settled on the seat pack as being the one product from Secret? Oh, no. So it's our only like stock product for the bags right now. I do some top two bags. I do some I call it the rapid response bag, like for racing scenarios, it's like quick to it. I do frame bags. Those are a little bit more custom. They require a template. Yeah. I build, I built hydration vests. I built. Fast packs. I built backpacks. I'll sew anything really. But I think the secret stuff, we're gonna keep it towards the bike oriented stuff. Possibly. The new... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27951960

Made Handmade Bike Show Part 1 08/29/2023

Made Handmade Bike Show Part 1 This week's episode is a compilation of chats with builders from the MADE handmade bike show in Portland, Or. This week included Rodriguez Cycles, Destroy Bicycles, Battaglin, Argonaut, Wren Sports, Velo Orange, Rizzo Cycles, WH Bradford, Speedvagen, Celilio Cycles, Wheatfall, DeSalvo, Larkin Cycles, Sage Cycles, Wolf Tooth, and Onguza Cycles. Episode Sponsor: (use code: THEGRAVELRIDE) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm sharing a bunch of interviews with frame builders from the made handmade bicycle show in Portland, Oregon. This past weekend, the event was so packed with builders and bike brands that I'm actually going to have to divide this into two episodes and each of them are going to be longer than I typically would release. I'm hoping you'll enjoy these little snippets to get to know some brands that might not otherwise be familiar to you. So many great hand-built bicycles up there. Very enjoyable show, and I hope you enjoy these interviews. Before we jump in, I do need to thank this week. Sponsored dynamic cyclist. The team at dynamic cyclist has built cycling, specific stretching and strength training routines. That are available from an app. Or directly from the web. Go visit dynamic cyclists.com to check out the videos. They have a free one week trial and gravel ride podcast. Listeners can get 15% off. All plans using the code, the gravel ride. Stretching is one of those things that I've committed to over the last year to try to get over the hump on a back issue. And I found the dynamic cycles program, very easy to follow. They've got a bunch of different routines. They somewhat trick me into doing a little core work, which I appreciate, but I appreciate very much the specific intention of the program directed at us cyclists so if that's of interest to you, go visit dynamic cyclists.com. And remember that code, the gravel ride for 15% off. With that said, we're going to slam all these interviews together. So we're going to jump around a little bit, but each of the builders and brands introduces themselves. So hopefully it's easy to follow and remember i'll have part two coming next week as well [00:02:24] Alder | Rodriguez Bicycles: My name is Alder Keld and I work for Rodriguez Bikes Alder. Tell me about Rodriguez and where you're from and what you, what your vibe is on the gravel scene. Rodriguez's bike shop over in Seattle on, on the Ave and we've been around for 50 years. I feel like only recently. We've really kind of tap, started tapping into maybe in the past like three years or so, the, the gravel market. You know, a lot of our disc brake bikes have gone like really popular now. As the road bike trend, kind of like, you know, starts to fade away. But we have our gravel models of Finney Ridge and the Bandido. That's Bandido. There's also Bandido and that's, that's a Finney Ridge right there. Let's talk about the differences between those two models. I mean this, this one looks pretty amazing with that old kind of GT inspired rear triangle. Yeah. Triple triangle there is is really nice. The, the line gets a little blurry between the two models. You know, it's mostly the way the break mounts. So the Finney Ridge is gonna be post mount, is post mount, and then the bandidos gonna be flat mount. But you know, we are completely custom. You can choose whatever tire, tire clearance you want, either one. And if you put a carbon fork on it, you're generally gonna get a flat mountain up front. So the, the line gets very blurred between which one is which. It's kind of, they both come through axle if you want, so. Gotcha. And does one have more of like a, a bike packing orientation and the other, more of a kind of race ride orientation? I would say the Bandido is definitely kind of on the race here, side of things. Just like the, the fitting of ridge, you know, I mean it's again, like this is a bandido, but it has three pack bounce on the fork. Yeah. And that's Finney Ridge and it has three pack bounce. You can really do whatever you want. And what, what frame materials are you building out of? So we do, for our lowest end one is 7 25, which is still much better than a lot of production bikes out there. And then we do velo spec and then we have like an ultralight blend that we have. And we do, we actually velo spec makes a lot of our tubing custom for us. So we get our specific Rockwell hardness and budding and tomb shape that we want out of everything. Okay, so what's the best way for people to discover the bikes you have an Instagram that they should follow? We do have an Instagram. It's at Rod Bikes on Instagram. You can see a bunch of, you know, cool, cool stuff there a lot of fun photos. We do also have a website we, rod bikes.com and you can see all the models. As well. And what does that ordering process look like for customers? Is it a long lead time or what's, what is it? We have a six to eight lead turnaround time. Okay. Usually, and then in the slower season, it could be four to six weeks. Okay. So pretty quick to get this dream bike underneath you. Yeah. We do full fittings and everything, so we have 20 stock sizes. So if one of our 20 stock sizes does not fit you we'll, measure your body parts, put it into our. Fit machine that we developed called Next, next Fit, and it'll spit out numbers. We'll double check those numbers and build a frame for you. We weld and paint in-house, so the turnaround time is very fast. Sweet. Thanks for that overview. No problem. [00:05:22] Sean | Destroy Bicycles: Can I get your name and brand? Yeah. My name is Sean Eagleton and I'm with Destroy Bikes. Sean, can you tell me a little bit about Destroy, where do you build out of and what's your philosophy about Gravel? We are out of Portland, Oregon and we actually just got the c l o, the old c o factory with inside of Chris King. And Gravel has been, has been growing this last year a lot. Sorry. That's all right. And what about this bike that we're looking at? So this bike is a personal friend of ours who wasn't really riding the last couple of years. She just started racing this last year. And a few of the races that I worked, she came in a good 10 minutes ahead of her husband. And it was, a friend that has just been killing it every time she goes out on a race and was. Basically a easy choice to say that this was gonna be our next cross racer, gravel racer. Her husband's known for being in the bicycle world already and doing a lot of really long extended gravel rides. And it was just a, perfect opportunity. Someone that we're very picky about our riders. We like people who aren't necessarily the typical racer. We like a little bit Grier and people with a little bit of attitude. So hence the, that matches with the Destroy brand name. Yes. That's why we wanted to go like super colorful with this thing. So the lights don't do it justice in here, but the full rainbow sparkle with the gold detailing really shows who she is as a person too. She's just a bit out there, a bit wild. What kind of frame materials this one built out of? So this is all Chrome, Molly and I like to do, tend to do a mix of stuff. I prefer Columbus seat stays and chain stays on a lot of things. The seat tube is a Tonga seat tube and the down tube and top tube are both Columbus as well. And do you like that from a ride performance perspective or how they weld together or what do you like about them? The Columbus in particular, like their seat stays, they're one of the few brands that make something that's bendable. I believe a lot of pre-made chain stays and seat stays aren't supposed to be used directly right out of the package. They still should be modified in some way to better fit the ride, better fit the bike and they're one of the few companies that I have, without a doubt, I can always modify them whichever way I want to. The bends come out clean. There's a lot of tubing that they do, certain hardening processes that it's just almost impossible to manually work them after. And just like to leave no tube left untouched, basically. What, and what does the customer journey look like if they are interested in a destroy bike? What do they do? How do they reach you? What does the timeline look like and what is the kind of experience of working with you? So it's a fairly simple process. We have. We now have a submission form online on our website, and you basically go on the website. We do a lot of batch stuff as well, so you're gonna choose between one bike or five bikes. And the whole process is getting to know you, getting a fit for you. And then I like to go a little bit crazy with the tubing talk, which most people get a little bit weary of. But everything is style as well, right? And when I'm choosing tubing, it's what do you want the bike to look like and how do you want it to ride? Ride, ride quality is just as important to me as how the bike looks. I'm very big on the geometries that we build. I tend to do things a little bit differently than a lot of people. But it's all based on my riding experiences and how I want the bike to handle. Yeah. And what's the best way to get more information about Destroy destroy by co.com. Instagram, destroy by Co, and TikTok as well. Right on. Yeah. Thanks Sean. Thank you. battaglin bicycles Okay. Can I get your name and the brand? Hi, I'm Marco from OA Battlin and I'm the marketing manager. We are a small company based in Italy making handcrafted custom still bikes. And how long has Baten been around? Battlin has been around since 1981. That's the year when our founder, Jovanni Battlin won the Jalia and Walter Espania. It's a legendary grantour double achieved which was achieved only by Eddie Merckx. That in 1981, our founder right after his grand tour victories launched his autonomous bike brand. Amazing. And I know the gravel scene has been slower to take off in Europe, but now it's catching fire over there. When did you as a brand start to explore building gravel bikes? We started exploring building gravel bikes two years ago. Obviously. The company has been, has always been focused on road bikes because that's that's what our founder used to ride as a professional cyclist, obviously back in the eighties. We knew that the gravel scene was growing. And we knew also our customers were asking for gravel product. But we wanted to find the right product, not just launch a random random gravel bike. And two years ago we started designing the port of energy which is a sort of gravel variant of our flagship product of the Portofino. So basically our port of energy has the same shares with our with its road counterpart, the same construction, the lag construction with the oversized logs and the oversized tubing. Yeah, I think that's very, a very striking element of the bike we're looking at is these lugs. Yes. It very much has the feel of a of a race oriented gravel bike. Yes. Which seems to be the front end of where European gravel is right now. This kind of more racy oriented bike. Would you, is that accurate? Yeah, it's accurate to say that and also you have to consider that our founder Giovanni and his son Alex, who is the c e o of the company right now wanted to. To design the port of energy went back to the old bikes the company used to make for the professional ra racers of the eighties who who raced in competitions the per rube. On on the pave on rougher roads. Yeah. Back back in the day, the roads were rougher than. The roads, the professional erasers are riding now. Basically for the port of energy we went back to the old geometries, to the old frames the company used to make, and we wanted to find this gravel variant, but with still with a road racing feel. Yeah, it's super interesting. I'll make sure to link to this bike in the show notes, 'cause I think people need to see this one. If people are interested in finding more out about the brand, where would you direct them to? They can visit our website, officina battalion.com and they can find us also on YouTube. We have many videos where we share our best builds. And for a US based customer, how would they get their hands on one of these bicycles? Actually the US is probably our most important market and we sell directly. Okay. We have a direct relationship with the consumer. We build our, all our bikes from scratch, so they send us their body measurements, their specifications. And we build we start from there. And would they be buying a complete bike with a groupo or are they just buying a frame and fork from you? It depends. All our bikes are custom made it depends on the customer's requests and specifications they can buy just the frame or we are more than happy to build a complete bike. Got it. Thanks. I appreciate the time. Thank you very much for coming and enjoy the show. [00:13:30] Ben | Argonaut: Okay. Can I get your name and brand? My name is Ben Farber. I'm the founder and head of r and d at Argonaut Cycles. Ben, where is Argonaut based? We are based in Bend, Oregon. Right on. I think I knew that and I'd seen the bikes for a number of years, but it seems like over the last few you've both expanded the line and added some small batch production. Can you talk about like the brand a little bit as it spec specifically to gravel cycling? What the custom bikes are all about and what the super knot's all about. Certainly. Yeah. So we are fully vertically integrated production facility based again in Bend, Oregon. We've got two models, the RMM three and the GR three in terms of the style of bike. So the RMM three is our road bike. It's a fairly racy, generally designed road bike, but it comes in custom geometry as well as proven geometry. With custom layup as well. So our big thing is how we engineer the carbon inside the bikes. And that's true for our gravel bike as well. So our gravel bike is the G R three. The idea behind the G R three is that it's a go fast up, go faster down, a gravel bike where the geometry is pretty progressive in terms of the front end with a 68 and a half degree head to Bengal. But then also a really nice tight rear end of a 415 millimeter chains stay with clearance for a 700 by 50 C tire. I think we've seen Sarah Max go quite fast on that bike this year. Yeah, absolutely. Sarah is our is our top racer that's been out there and doing the lifetime series. She was just in Steamboat and then getting ready to go somewhere in the south again. Pretty soon think so. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And then tell me about the Super Knot. I hadn't seen that before. Super Knot is our non-custom production line, essentially. So it's the same technology that is in our custom bikes in terms of the layup pattern of the frame and where and how they're made. They're just not custom to the individual. So we make these for in two different build, two different. Models. Essentially there's a super knot RMM three, the road bike and the super knot, g R three. And they are the build kit that they're outfitted with is essentially what we at the shop. If we could ride anything, it's what we would ride. It's if I would build myself a bike tomorrow, this is what I'd put on it. And that's the ethos behind these. And it's for a customer who doesn't necessarily need or want a custom bike, but just wants a really great riding, super high performance, really well made bike. That's what the Super knot is. Where they're cheaper in terms of relative to the custom bikes. So it's fif 14 nine for a complete RM three and then 12 nine for a complete g R three and lead time's about four weeks. So we're able to reduce the lead time. Got it. And is this bike, does it have a similar kind of race orientation or are you going for a broader applicability of a gravel bike? It's more of a go fast gravel bike with ample clearance. Essentially. And what does that mean, ample clearance for you guys on this bike? 50 C tire. Okay. 7 0 5 50 C. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting to see like over the last few years that size become commonplace, whereas four or five years ago it was a little bit tricky, I think, for a lot of frame builders to make that work. Yeah. And that's the art. And the cool thing, the magic in the G R three is having that short chain stay length with enough clearance for a 50 C tire. It makes it really capable, but also really fun to ride. Bike. A lot of times with the geometry of clearing that big of a tire, you burden it by having a super long wheel base, especially the rear center. And what, that's what really concentrate on the G three is that tight rear center makes the bike just so much more lively. Nice. And if customers are interested in learning more about Argonaut, what's the best way to find out about what you guys are doing? Argonaut cycles.com. And then follow us on [email protected] as well. And I think you mentioned already the timelines for these various spikes, but if someone was coming to you for a custom build, what does that look like? I realize like the back and forth about getting the custom geometry right with the customer takes some time. Yeah. But yeah. What does it generally look like? Turnaround time? No. Good question. So we're about 12 to 14 weeks on the full custom bike. Okay, so it's still not too bad. Yeah. Right on. Thanks, Ben. Absolutely. Thank you. [00:17:29] Cameron | Wren Sports: Okay. Can I get your name and the company? Yeah. I'm Cameron Sanders. I'm with Rinn Sports. Cameron, let's talk about this handlebar you have in your hands. I know this is a little tricky since we're on audio, but let's do your best to describe it. Awesome. Yeah. So this is our perseverance drop bar. We have a perseverance flat and drop bar. The flat bar. We actually have on a number of gravel bikes out there as well. What it is, it's a one piece integrated arrow accessory alt bar. Think. If you're thinking like Jones or Redshift kitchen sink, you're in the right space but let's say the box that showed up on your doorstep was twice the size. Yeah. So what we're looking at, it's a, drop bar handlebar with an arrow extension kind of built into it. Correct, yeah. And a lot long as you said, a lot more longer and extended than you might be visualizing with sort of the short stubby extensions that we see on other handlebars. Yeah. It's not just for a psyching. Cycling computer or just resting your palms on this is like a full other position to get into. And from a manufacturing standpoint, we have not just like one loop, there's multiple angles here. So it's going out, it's flaring up, it's going, it has a nose that it goes around. And that definitely makes this a harder bar to manufacture. Basically we have enough material out front to make a whole nother bar. And where, what type of athlete, gravel athletes are you seeing kind of gravitate towards this bar? What type of events in your mind as a designer, are they? Is it intended for? Yeah, so the people that I think are benefiting the most from this are bike packers and like hyper endurance athletes. This was a. I jotted down notes about what I wanted after riding the Baja divide. And then I went and did a thousand mile gravel tour of Eastern Oregon. And between my mountain bike and my drop bar bike, I wanted something that felt at home on either one of them. But we also are getting a lot of riders and racers that are doing a hundred to 300 mile like ultra endurance days that are really enjoying the bar. Yeah, I bet. I've just recently been, Watching from... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27880179

The Sklar Super Something: A versatile new gravel bike from Adam Sklar 08/22/2023

The Sklar Super Something: A versatile new gravel bike from Adam Sklar In this episode of the podcast, we interview Adam Sklar, the founder of Sklar Bikes. Adam shares his journey into cycling, starting with his entry into mountain biking through his ski friends during his childhood in Boulder, Colorado. He talks about his early experiences in bike racing and how he discovered his passion for frame building during his time in college in Montana. Adam discusses the challenges and joys of building custom bikes for his friends and the process of transitioning from custom bikes to smaller batch production. He also talks about the design philosophy behind Sklar Bikes, which focuses on creating versatile and fun bikes that offer different riding experiences. Craig and Adam touch on various topics, including the materials used in frame building, the process of designing and manufacturing custom bikes, the popularity of gravel bikes, and the unique features of Sklar Bikes, such as the adjustable dropouts and external cable routing. Throughout the episode, Adam's passion for building bikes and creating unique riding experiences shines through. Listeners are encouraged to check out the Sklar Bikes website and reach out to Adam with any questions or inquiries. Episode Sponser: Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:01]Craig Dalton (host): Adam, welcome to the show. [00:00:03]Adam Sklar: for having me. I feel like I've been [00:00:05]Craig Dalton (host): I feel like I've been admiring your bikes from afar for a while, so I'm excited to have this conversation and just learn a little bit more about the origin story of the brand. [00:00:15]Adam Sklar: Cool. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. start off with, [00:00:18]Craig Dalton (host): Let's start off with, uh, just learning a little bit about you. Where'd you grow up and how'd you discover cycling in the first place? [00:00:24]Adam Sklar: Cool. Yeah, so my name is Adam Lar. Um, People know me for my bike brands, car bikes. Um, so yeah, I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, and I guess my entry to bikes was through my ski friends. I grew up ski racing and then in the summers all my ski friends were into cross country mountain biking, like mountain bike racing as you were if you were a kid who grew up in Boulder. Um, and so after a couple summers of them, Like begging me to go mountain biking with them. I finally tried it and it, um, hooked. I guess I got hooked super hard. It was sort of the thing we could do where we went outside all day and our parents wouldn't bug us, um, or like ask questions about what we were doing. So we would go up in the mountains and pack our lunch and go on these big long rides. Um, and that was, so that's sort of, yeah, what my entry point into cycling was. Um, amazing. [00:01:21]Craig Dalton (host): Amazing. And then did you catch the racing bug from your [00:01:24]Adam Sklar: Not really. They, I tried to make it, make it go. Um, I definitely, my last year of high school was the first year of Nica in Colorado, and that was cool. And I thought I would get into racing, but I moved to Montana and they didn't really have bike races there. Um, so I never, I never really got super vacy, but I, I wanted to be for sure. And what, what [00:01:52]Craig Dalton (host): And what, what led you to move to [00:01:53]Adam Sklar: Um, I came to Montana for college, so I went, I went to engineering school at Montana State in Bozeman, and yeah, that's how I ended up in Bozeman. Gotcha. [00:02:04]Craig Dalton (host): And in the course of your education there, did you learn to weld? [00:02:08]Adam Sklar: a little bit, yeah. So I, I built my first frame, winter break of my freshman year of college, so I was, um, or well built as, Maybe a generous word, but I, I got some tubes and stuck 'em together with like, stuff from Home Depot. And at, at the end of my time in Boulder, I'd met this guy Walt, who does, Walt works. And uh, he built me a fork for my mountain bike. 'cause we were all into rigid 29 ERs, single speeds, you know, very bolder. And, uh, I showed it to Walt and he felt bad for me, and so he gave me a brazing lesson and taught me how to do it. So then I, I did a couple more on my own and then, yeah, went back to school. I got a job in the machine shop on campus and it just so turned out that the guy who ran that shop had built frames in the seventies and eighties, and so he really took me under his wing. And so I was working in the machine shop helping engineering students with like their senior projects, machining stuff, and then, Some nights there would be no one there, so I would just machine bike tools or work on bikes and that's sort of how I built up a lot of my, my shop and experience. Amazing. If you had [00:03:24]Craig Dalton (host): amazing, if you had to guess, how many bikes did you make while you were in school? Cool [00:03:28]Adam Sklar: Oh, probably, I bet like 20. I ended up, I think I met Tom, like I, Tom Youngs, who was the shop guy. I think I built seven when I met him, and then I probably built another 20 or something. Sort of like the, the business started 'cause I was spending all my money building bikes for friends and, which is, you know, it's how it goes. Like you build one and it was really fun. It's so cool. You ride it and you're like, wow, I made this. That's amazing. And then your friends see that and they want one. And I also wanted to build more bikes, but I had enough, you know, I can't, I couldn't just keep building myself bikes. So I got my friends to buy 'em. And then, um, I was like, why do I have no money? I need to make one bank account that's just bike stuff and if that's zero, then I'm not making money. And that was kinda the start of learning how to do a business as well. What [00:04:22]Craig Dalton (host): And what type of bikes, I think you might have mentioned this, but what type of bikes were you making for your [00:04:27]Adam Sklar: then? It was, yeah, that was still in our rigid single speed 29 or days. So pretty, I think like out of the first 20, I bet 15. Were those. Yeah. Did you have an [00:04:39]Craig Dalton (host): And did you have an opportunity to kind of explore the different characteristics of the various steel tube sets available? [00:04:46]Adam Sklar: I think that early on, yeah, I was still learning about that stuff. Um, a lot of experimentation, a lot of, there were some frames, nothing was ever wildly unrideable, but you know, you build one and you're like, okay, that's super stiff. That feels bad, or, you know, that bottom bracket's way too high. Like, I won't do that again. Um, so luckily my friends were very forgiving with some of those first ones. Um, but I think, yeah, I mean the, the understanding of materials really happened over time. I think, you know, you're, you're starting and you're just working on the actual fabrication craft. So like, it would come in phases. Like at first it was like, I need to get good at welding and be really focused on the welding. And of course you're always looking at materials and things like that. But I think after I had nailed down the craft a little bit more, I spent a lot of little dove into materials a little deeper. And I guess being an engineering school also helped with that. 'cause you learn, there's a lot of in the bike world, you know, interesting rumors that get spread around about materials. But having a scientific background in that stuff. Kinda helps you see what parts are true about those things and what might be made up Interesting. [00:06:06]Craig Dalton (host): That's super interesting along the way. Just 'cause I'm curious, like as you were learning the craft of frame building, was there an area of the frame that was the trickiest to kind of master? I mean I, in my mind, I'm thinking like around the bottom bracket seems to be the hardest place to get the welds [00:06:25]Adam Sklar: yeah. I mean, Uh, yeah, I mean, still the hardest thing with like the big tires, big tire chain ring clearance. You know, you'll see all these very creative chains day yolks out there these days. And it's funny, bikes are, bikes are so simple, but, uh huh. Recording can, oh, can you hear me Still? [00:06:54]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, [00:06:55]Adam Sklar: Oh, you went away. Oh no. Okay. What was I saying? Oh yeah, chainstay. Yos. Yeah, threading. And like the cool thing about that era, so this was like 2012 ish, and so the first big tire era I got to go through was like plus mountain bikes, but also gravel bikes. Were kind of just starting to be more popular than I think, and. At that time we were like, how do we fit a 40 C tire in here with a road double and stuff like that. So that was, um, yeah, it was fun to be figuring out those problems and maybe figuring 'em out. Before companies, like big companies had to, you know, they, they have to make sure that works for the run of a thousand bikes they're gonna do, but I was doing one at a time, so we could make. These cool big tire bikes before they came out commercially, which was pretty cool. Yeah, [00:07:54]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think that's, it's been such an interesting journey the last six years or so, just around that specific challenge of. [00:08:01]Adam Sklar: clearance. Mm-hmm. [00:08:02]Craig Dalton (host): clearance and how to make that work with gravel bikes. That's interesting to hear you kind of attacking that early on through your exploration of the mountain bike first and then later transitioning like, oh, I already figured out how to do that for super big tires. Now I just need to downsize it a little bit for this gravel and road crankset [00:08:22]Adam Sklar: Totally. Yeah. So you [00:08:25]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. So you graduate from college, you've made, you know, twenties, 20, 30 bikes. At that point, did you immediately kind of say, Hey, this makes sense for me to pursue as a business, or was there something you were doing along the way at that time as well as you were doing this [00:08:40]Adam Sklar: Yeah, I, um, no, I. I was pretty hesitant to do it as a job. I had talked to a lot of builders and pretty much all of them said, don't do this for a job. Um, I really wanted to do it. I mean, I was, so, it was all I thought about and I literally like jumped out of bed on the weekends, excited to go build bikes in my garage and it was what I wanted to do. But I was, um, during, it must have been my junior year of college, I met. A guy at a Cycl cross race who owned an engineering firm. And so he ended up giving me a job and I was working there. My last, so I was in school and I was working at the engineering firm and doing bikes. Um, but the firm was like sort of product design stuff. We did a lot of, we'd call 'em like electro mechanical devices, like kitchen devices or, I worked on some drones. Um, some like three D camera mounts for Google was a big thing I did. Um, That was fun. I learned a lot about complex like CAD modeling and working with engineering clients, which was, it was a really cool experience. Um, and then, yeah, a year and a half or so into that. So I did that for half, I don't know, a year or something, and then graduated. And then that summer I went and rode the Colorado trail with some friends and I took like, I took like three weeks off for that and before like the phone was ringing more and more for bikes and I came back and my boss sat me down and was like, you have to choose this or choose that. And so I ended up choosing bikes and he ordered a bike from me, was the first thing he did. So it was, it was a very gentle push off into the world of that. It was nice. I love it. I [00:10:24]Craig Dalton (host): I love it. I love it. Silly question, but did you, did you design your own bike for the Colorado Trail, and if so, what [00:10:31]Adam Sklar: Oh yeah, yeah. I did it with, so that was actually really fun. It was like four or five of my good friends from high school who, the nerd, the cross country racing nerds who got me into bikes and we were all on bikes that I built. So, um, think two of us were on rigid. We all had gears at that point, but two Rigids three I think had 140 mil travel hard tail, like 11 speed. But yeah, we were all. On Lars, which was pretty cool. [00:11:04]Craig Dalton (host): That's awesome. So talk about like sort of the early years of the brand and how when you, when you went full-time, [00:11:11]Adam Sklar: year was [00:11:12]Craig Dalton (host): what year was that? [00:11:13]Adam Sklar: I think that was 2016 that I went full-time. [00:11:16]Craig Dalton (host): Okay. [00:11:17]Adam Sklar: Yeah, the, so I was sort of just figuring out, I mean, I was building really, I was, I was super psyched to build bikes and I had my shop space that I'm still in. That's the year I moved into the shop space. And, uh, yeah, I was psyched and orders were starting to come in, so I was building custom bikes, so I'd get, you know, an order for custom mountain bike, custom gravel bike, touring bike, and then that process. By that point, I had probably built 50 or 80 ish spikes and develop that process a little bit more so, With a customer when they come to you, on average for the custom bikes, it would be 60 or 80 emails per bike. So it's a pretty involved process where they tell you their needs and you know, I'm asking, it's not just like, what are your measurements? It's like, what, where do you live? What's the riding like? What goals do you have with like, do you want to do a big bike tour on it? Is it to win cycl cross races? Is it, you know, there's so many. And then you're sort of teasing out what the things people tell you mean, because, you know, you can say all sorts of things. Like, my favorite one is people say like, I want a bike that rides like a big B M X bike. But they've never actually ridden a, like B M X bikes are scary to ride. You know, you don't, you don't want, that's not what they mean. But I know what they mean when they say that, but it's not, unless they're an actual B M X rider, I would never believe them. When they say that, what does that, what does that [00:12:51]Craig Dalton (host): What does that, what does that translate to you? That they want the bike [00:12:55]Adam Sklar: To me, it's like playful, nimble, I think is a word that I would use and like lofty, like easy to bunny hop and stuff. But yeah, beer mix bikes are [00:13:03]Craig Dalton (host): that makes sense. [00:13:05]Adam Sklar: You don't want that. Um, so yeah, big really involved process building these custom bikes that were yeah, from the ground up all the way custom. Um, yeah, and I did that for a long time for. Eight, I guess the next eight years, just building 30, [00:13:25]Craig Dalton (host): And, and were you starting to go to like the handmade bike show [00:13:28]Adam Sklar: Yep. I went to the Handmade bike show, I think that was 2016 was the year I won Best Mountain Bike. I was. Which, um, those awards are a little silly, but that definitely put me on the map for a lot of folks. Um, and yeah, I think after that my, my lead time went up to two years and it really didn't ever go down from there. Which was an interesting journey in itself. It's gets some [00:13:57]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, to get some perspective, like how long from beginning to end, obviously you've got the massive number of emails in advance of actually welding anything, but how long would it take you to manufacture a custom bike? [00:14:09]Adam Sklar: yeah, so most of the time is definitely in the design process. I mean, that's typically once we started it, it would be about. Six weeks to get everything dialed in. And that would include like build kit and paint colors and all that stuff. But once I have the design in hand ready to go in the shop, it's usually like I can, in two days of work, I can get it done. So like 15, 20 hours. Um, yeah. And that got faster and faster over the years. But [00:14:40]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Got it. And when did you start to see gravel bikes become more of what customers were asking for? I. And were you kind of prepared for that transition to designing drop [00:14:52]Adam Sklar: Totally. Yeah, I think that must've, so I was big on the, the mountain bike big award thing happened, and that's my background as well is in mountain bikes. Um, and then it must've been right around then, yeah, maybe 2016 ish, 17 in there. Um, I definitely noticed. Something that I liked, well, I had built myself a couple. I was a hesitant gravel rider, just 'cause I was like, I'm a mountain biker, you know, road biking's lame, which is dumb. But, um, you know, here in Bozeman, the trails, if you, if you, there's amazing gravel riding. We're in this big valley that's like a hundred miles across one way, 30 miles across the other. And there's, it's just full of sweet gravel roads and. If you have a gravel bike, it adds four months to the riding season. 'cause there's like two months on either end that the trails are snowed in and that. Um, so I had built myself some gravel bikes and I was getting super into it and I noticed that my friends were mountain bikers. It was a way for them to have two more months of riding and my friends were road bikers. It was a good way to like, get them to go do actually fun riding. And um, it just seemed like such a fun way to bring. All the bike people together. And then at the same time, what we were just talking about where big companies were kind of figuring it out. I think it was, it was a time like the, the coolest part about the custom stuff is that interaction, getting to hear what people are looking for. And it was really cool with gravel bikes because you know, I got to talk to hundreds of people who were like, this is the gravel bike I can't find out there and this is what I'm looking for. And through, you know, That six week long process with all those people. Um, I think I got some pretty cool ideas about what people are actually looking for in a grapple bike. Um, so I think that [00:16:52]Craig Dalton (host): Given your mountain bike background, when you first designed your own personal gravel bike, was it on the rowdier side? [00:16:59]Adam Sklar: yeah. Well actually, you know, I think the first, well actually the very first bike bike I built was. Kind of a, it was like a cyclocross. We were still calling 'em cyclo cross bikes then. Um, but yeah, I did, I think the first, yeah, they definitely leaned mountain bike year. They had that mountain bike ego to them. Um, yeah, and I did a lot of experimentation. Um, I remember, I don't know, I probably built myself like 15 of, maybe not that many, 10, but, um, ranging from, yeah, full. Drop our mountain bike to big tire road bike. Um, and that's been, that's been part of the journey too, to realize what I like in there and also to help me understand what people mean. You know, hearing about their background as a cyclist, what, what they're used to. I think that's a huge part of design. People might come to you with an idea of what they want, but also. There's, there's something, you know, muscle memory of riding a bike. And if you're used to riding road bikes and you hop on one of those rowdy mountain, like mountain bikey gravel bikes, most of those people aren't gonna like it. And I think the other way is true too. If you're a mountain biker and you get on a really steep road, road bike with big tires, that's gonna feel unnatural. So the custom bikes are kind of weaving in. Like, what are your goals? Like do you want to, are you a road biker who wants to get on single track? Like how do we make it familiar enough that it feels like home? You know, it feels like something you like, and how do we make it capable enough that it can make you feel confident to, to do those things? You want to push yourself on that. That's sort of the balance I'm always, I've been trying to do. Yeah. [00:18:54]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, it's such an interesting journey. As the listener may remember, I went through my own custom bike design... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27819696

Joe Concra | The O+ Festival: Apply Pressure & Elevate 08/15/2023

Joe Concra | The O+ Festival: Apply Pressure & Elevate Community, exchange, interdependence, celebration, purpose: in this episode, Randall and O+ Founder Joe Concra share an example of bicycles serving as a vehicle first for connection, and from there serendipity, collaboration, and the creation of meaning. Join Joe, Randall, and other members of the community at the O+ Festival in Kingston, NY from October 6-8 for a weekend of music, art, riding, and wellness. Episode sponsor: Karoo 2 (use code THEGRAVELRIDE for free HRM) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm going to hand the mic over to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's joined by Joe conqueror. Joe is the founder of the O positive festival. In New York. He's joining. Randal's talk about community and how the bicycle serves as a vehicle for connection. I think you'll enjoy this conversation. But before we jump in i need to thank this week sponsor hammerhead and the hammerhead crew to computer The hammerhead crew too, is the most advanced GPS cycling computer available today with industry leading mapping navigation and routing capabilities. That set it apart from other GPS options, free global maps and points of interest included like cafes and campsite. It means you could explore with confidence and on the go flexibility. Once again, the other night I was hit with hammerheads bi-weekly software update where new features are released so unlike other head units, your crew too continues to evolve and improve each ride, getting better than the last. Personally, I love the climbing feature. That's available on the crew too. One thing I noted in comparison to some of the other devices I've used is that now the climber feature kicks in whether or not you've got a route loaded or not. That's super important. I was riding the other day, testing out another device and I had a climb that's very known, but I didn't have a route loaded. And all of a sudden that climbing feature wasn't available. I very much appreciate what the engineers at hammerhead have done to make this computer as good as it can be, but to continue to improve it. For a limited time, our listeners can get a free heart rate monitor with the purchase of our hammerhead crew to just visit hammerhead.io right now, and use the promo code, the gravel ride at checkout to get yours today. This is an exclusive limited time offer for our podcast listeners. So don't forget to use the code. Duck gravel ride. That's a free heart rate monitor with your purchase of a career to. From hammerhead.io. With that business behind us. I'm going to hand the mic over to Randall and I'll talk to y'all next week. [00:02:33] Randall Jacobs (host): Where do we [00:02:33] Joe Concra: begin? I don't know. The Randall Joe Comedy Hour. I have no idea. Where do you wanna start? Well, [00:02:38] Randall Jacobs (host): how about origin story because people have asked me this a number of times and I actually don't know if I get it right. I think I get the high level of it, like how we met, [00:02:47] Joe Concra: how we met. Huh? How did we, you you go back a little ways now. Yeah. So here, this is what I remember. It was a dark and stormy night. And, uh, now if I remember correctly, so I'm sure we'll get into o positive and what O positive is at some point, but I was doing. As I often do research on partners for O positive to help this crazy experiment continue. But I'm also like a mad cyclist, mad being the operative word. And I somehow found thesis and I think I just wrote to the info at and was like, I think this model's really awesome. And I do this festival where we exchange for healthcare, which probably doesn't make any sense at all. And. Would you like to come talk about being a sponsor or a partner? Yeah. And then you said, we're actually gonna be on the east coast. And then I ridiculously said, well, why don't you swing through Kingston and we can demo a bike? Which then I had to buy a bike. That's how [00:03:51] Randall Jacobs (host): that why you bought a [00:03:51] Joe Concra: bike. Well, I rode it. Okay. I mean, it was pretty simple. Once you ride it, you're like, okay, this bike's amazing. I should probably ride more gravel and get off the road. I've survived this long in my life without being killed by a car. So, uh, yeah, that's why. Is that close to what you remember? That's [00:04:07] Randall Jacobs (host): more or less exactly the way I tell the story. Yeah. So essentially you'd reached out and, the way I've told it is you had said, Hey, I like what you guys are doing. I'm thinking about getting a bike also, here's what I do and you should come check out Kingston. Um, and then that evolved into, you know, we did a small, uh, event at, uh, utility bikes. [00:04:28] Joe Concra: Yes. Uh, great time. [00:04:29] Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. And really from that first moment there was a seed planted in me about being here. Some listeners will know I now live in Kingston, but [00:04:37] Joe Concra: we're closing the gate after you. Yeah. Like nobody else, like, oh yeah. Don't come here. It's not fun here. It's terrible here. Yeah. Don't, this is not where you want to be. Yeah. [00:04:46] Randall Jacobs (host): And I remember, at the time I was becoming, I wasn't quite done with San Francisco, but , I was getting to a different place in life and didn't quite know what would come next. And that seed was watered every single time I came back and I kept coming back. Mm-hmm. So, I'm trying to remember, I think the next time I came, we had a little team summit. Mm-hmm. A couple of team members during Covid. And, we were here with you and, you showed us around, and we were here for a couple of days and that was great. I remember ending up on your roof deck, looking at the mountains on this beautiful day with my colleagues, and then the next time I came, I think it might have been my first O positive. Did the gravel ride. Yep. I made a couple of friends on the ride who are now friends here that, you were starting the, what was then trust hub now Trust up project. Mm-hmm. And, you were looking for somebody to, to help run it. You had this idea for something and some funding lined up. And. I joined the, the hiring committee. And now, I've been involved as a advisor and now, Rob Jameson, who runs that project is a good friend. Yeah. And so, on a very personal level, like you've had a pretty big impact on my life. Through the direct things that you've done with me, but then also, just the, the resonance that I felt while being here, hanging out with you, the people I met through you and through the, the, the community that is here. so much so that I moved here, I bought my first house. That's says a lot about, about you and about this place, and this is a place that has a significant amount of your influence on it. Hmm. You walk around and you have the murals and you see the little o positive, the bottom of the mural. And, you know, there's a number of community initiatives that have been kicked off in this area, presumably stemming from that initial o positive grant when you first got the festival off the ground or, or a few years after that. Mm-hmm. So . [00:06:43] Joe Concra: Thank you. Yeah. I'm so glad we're not. Like you actually said, do you want to do this with video? And I, and it's because of this, cuz I be, people would see that I'm bee red right now. Um, because I'm, I thank you. And also, like, it makes me very uncomfortable to hear these things. I feel like everybody does the best they can. And you get lucky to create space for things to happen if you're really, you know, if you really, really think about what we do. As human beings, as people listen to this as cyclists, right? We're always looking for the gaps. We're always looking for the space. We're always looking for that. That thing between the thing, right? At least I know I am. So when we met, I was like, oh, well here's the bike I'm going to ride, and this, this guy seems really interesting. I want to know more about what they're doing and what gives somebody a. Like, why does somebody wanna reinvent the wheel? Is literally what I thought when I meant you, like you want to bring down costs, you want this thing to be this, this way you're designing it. It's amazing. Like same for me, like being on a bicycle for me in the woods, being out. Like last night I went riding in some hippie, decided to destroy my knee, but it was a voodoo doll. And we'll get to that. And uh, I wanna keep you all the same. You're riding in Woodstock. Yeah. No close. Rosendale, same thing. Yeah. Um, but you know, There is a desire to work a lot in community and do a lot of really good things. The counter weight to that is being on your bicycle and being alone. Yeah, so I can tell you that the thesis bike that I ride more than any road riding I did since 1982 on right. Being in the woods on gravel alone and like riding by a beaver pond and seeing an owl. At seven o'clock at night in the Hudson Valley is the quiet, it gets the monkeys outta your head and quiets you down. So I'm very, very thankful for, you know, what you've designed. This podcast. I really like the, I really like what's on Slack. I think that's really, really great. It's able to communicate with people on the ridership is great. So, you know, there's mutual respect in that way. I think that it's really, really important just to acknowledge how. You know, cyclists are weird, right? They're like hockey goalies, soccer goalies, cyclists, place kickers in football, right? They're, every cyclist I know is like, yeah, I really wanna be your friend, but also leave me alone. Like it's this weird dichotomy, like they've got their hand up and come here at the same time, which I really appreciate and I find that really, really, really, I'm just thankful [00:09:19] Randall Jacobs (host): You have maybe more of an outside view on cycling and cyclists than I do, cuz I had just been in it for so long. Mm-hmm. Like I was a competitive cyclist for a period and that's its own kind of mindset. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. worked for, worked in the industry quite a bit for quite a long time. I mean, obviously I have a company I do this podcast and so on, so I was like in it versus you are, I think first and foremost, what. An artist, a community builder. [00:09:47] Joe Concra: Yeah. I think first and foremost, I, I make paintings. I mean, that, that's what I do. Right. And then I do all these other things outside of the studio. Right. So I, I run a nonprofit with my friends who, which I built since two in 2010, um, that exchanges art and music for medicine at the festival you've been to every year? Yep. We're about to go year-round with a clinic after 13 years to take care of artists, musicians based on an exchange model, not based on money, trying to take money outta the system. Um, and. I ride bikes and I've ridden bikes like every day of my life for my entire life because I love them and surround myself with cyclists and just riding in general. Um, so yeah, not a pro avid cyclist, I think is what they would call it back in the day. An avid [00:10:26] Randall Jacobs (host): cyclist. Well, before we, we dive in on the, the clinic and o positive and so on. I'm just, uh, want to kind of pull at this thread. What, what do you notice? Do you notice patterns amongst cyclists in particular? So you mentioned [00:10:41] Joe Concra: like, can I just throw this? Can I throw a cyclist under the bus? Like metaphorically? [00:10:44] Randall Jacobs (host): I mean, we're under there. All right. It does [00:10:47] Joe Concra: too. I think everybody listening to this knows this. This isn't a secret. But I was a road rider for years. Mm-hmm. Like back in the, you know, you turn whatever age you get your, you save up your money cuz you're working at McDonald's or your newspaper route and you buy your first road bike, it's like a Ross, it's yellow, it's ugly as hell. Then you graduate to your next bike and you get a Schwinn cuz you think that's the best bike, whatever. And you're, Greg Lamonts, your, all those things. Then you spend years in group road rides and you do a little bit of like racing, like you and stuff, and you do all the things and you train to, and you go on group rides. A couple years ago, after getting the thesis four years ago now, I stopped. Hmm. And I was like, what a culture shift. I'm not hammering, I'm riding with my friends, I'm getting a great workout. I'm in the woods and just recently, and I know people are gonna listen to this and know me, and I rode ride with him. Please don't put your pump into my spokes when we ride together. But I went on a group ride again, a road group ride, and it was terrible. I spent the whole time looking at the wheel in front of me and somebody's back when I went to the front. I got to say I have a good, nice view, but that's what I noticed more than anything else. People are moving away from that way of riding to a more community based ride. For instance, you mentioned utility bikes. There's a whole generation of kids in sneakers and cutoff jeans. Yeah. And that's their ride. That's how they ride. Yeah. The old guys like me wearing stupid spandex, plastic shit. Like, sorry, I didn't mean to curse. Can I curse on a [00:12:23] Randall Jacobs (host): podcast? No, no. That's definitely gonna get us in trouble. [00:12:26] Joe Concra: Well, sorry. Ftc. F F, fda, whatever, whatever. Regulatory agency. Not the human consumption, [00:12:32] Randall Jacobs (host): fda, [00:12:34] Joe Concra: But I think that's the big shift, right? There's been this massive cultural shift. I'm a little bit nervous to see money going into gravel riding. Yeah, in a way that I think it might screw it up a little bit. It starts getting a little bit competitive where I really like the, like, like the first big long distance gravel ride I did. I remember like getting ready and being like a little bit nervous, like it was a race. I kept reminding myself it's a ride, and then like some dude passes me cranking out Aerosmith on a boombox tied, tied underneath his top tube wearing a cowboy hat, cut off jeans and sneakers smoking a joint, and I'm like, this is amazing. I couldn't believe it. I was like, what a different culture. So I, I hope that that culture, um, exists and keeps growing. I, [00:13:15] Randall Jacobs (host): I think it will. I think gravel specifically, there's something about the medium that is itself, very conducive to that. You're doing mixed terrain riding. You're leaving from your back door. It's not like a road ride where. You're either going solo or you might be going on some group hammer ride. The train isn't changing all that much and so on. Or a mountain bike ride where you're hopping in your car. so there's something more out the door. I think the events that I've been to, there's definitely a trend towards, elite racing. Mm-hmm. , we, we've had, event organizers, for some of the biggest races on the pod, uh, had, have had elite racers on the pod and so on. Mm-hmm. And like, that's its own thing. And as a, I would've joked in the past and I almost did it again, I was gonna say a recovering racer, but at the time I was racing, it was great. Yeah. Like I was living my best life. And just because current me isn't into that, Doesn't mean that past me was getting it wrong, cuz future me is definitely gonna look at current me and say what were you doing at that time? Right. Yeah. And the other thing I'd say is if you're more resonant with one way of riding create that and let people migrate to it, like the utility ride and a couple of the rides around here. But also what we've talked about, growing o positive rides around that, there's no race. It's more like, here's a ride where we're gonna go out and have a shared adventure. go through a share shared ordeal. It'll be accessible to riders of a variety of different abilities. And then we're gonna have a party after. Totally. [00:14:43] Joe Concra: in fact, it's a whole weekend of [00:14:44] Randall Jacobs (host): a party. Yeah, let's talk about that. So let's get in, but I also, what are, what are the dates? [00:14:48] Joe Concra: Uh, this year will be October 6th, seven and eight. Yep. And, but I just wanna say this for all my roadie friends, cuz I still go out on the road, don't hate me, but there's road rides at Oak Positive too. Are road ride right? Mean there's road gravel and a mural to mural tour. Mm-hmm. Um, for families and kid-friendly and bring your dogs and whatever craft you want to try to pedal around. Yep. Uh, the city of Kingston. So I'll give you a little bit of the origin story and what we do cause I think that'll probably help people. So if you haven't heard about o Positive, which I suppose most people haven't, um, we are based in Kingston, New York. And our festivals, which are music and art based, every artist and musician who plays the festival. Puts up a mural, dances tells comedy, whatever they do. In exchange, we build a clinic, and in that clinic are 160 providers. Everyone sees a doctor, has access to a dentist, mental health professionals, acupuncture, massage, you name it, it's all there. We started in 2010 with a really simple idea. As a painter, it was very, it was very, Easy to say, well you know what, we never have insurance. So what if we did a festival where instead of paying the artists with money, cuz we didn't have any money anyway, we got a bunch of doctors who loved music and art and said, would you see these people? So what started as a very, very small festival in 2010? We've done 22 festivals nationwide. Our home base is here in Kingston every year in October. We do the big one here and, uh, it's grown to include gravel riding and a whole weekend of experiential yoga and sound healing dance parties. You name it, it happens from Friday night till Sunday night. When is [00:16:23] Randall Jacobs (host): this coming out? We can put it out whenever. [00:16:25] Joe Concra: Okay. Whenever makes sense. I can give you a headliner. So yeah, this year one of our headliners will be comedy. It's bobcat. Goldway. I dunno if you remember him from the movies and, but I remember it was a standup guy with that crazy voice. But I can't wait to say hi to him and meet him and thank him for making me laugh for years. Because especially coming outta the pandemic, like, we're not dead yet. Like, we should laugh. Like, we should be like, holy shit, we're alive. Like, let's enjoy this moment. And hopefully he'll go to the doctor, he'll go to the dentist, he'll talk about mental health, you know, and, and people will be able to come out and enjoy the weekend. Yeah. [00:16:58] Randall Jacobs (host): Well, that was one of the things that really resonated with me when I first started looking into a positive and getting to know you and coming here was this feeling of okay, there, are there issues in the world that affect me personally? Like I have a significant concern about engaging with the medical system, the medical industrial complex because you hear horror stories. And I know people who've been bankrupted by a system that, on the one hand people say, here in America we have the best healthcare in the world. Well, you might add the caveat that money can buy. Mm-hmm. But, unless you have really good insurance you can end up drained, if you're a small business owner or something like that. Yeah. and you don't have a platinum package. And then there's all these ways in which it deals with symptoms... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27754860

Inside the world of gravel with Veloworthy's Brian Co 08/08/2023

Inside the world of gravel with Veloworthy's Brian Co In this episode, we host a dialogue with Brian Co from Veloworthy. Brian shares his journey as a cyclist, becoming a podcaster and ultimately founding Veloworthy to explore video storytelling. The talk shifts towards Brian's recent dive into gravel riding during the pandemic - a pursuit aligning smoothly with his interest in digital media and videography. Despite the challenges of filming races and representing cycling's diverse stories, Brian consistently seeks truth in his work. Brian continues to explore the world of gravel through his lenses on this YouTube Channel, Veloworthy. Episode Sponsor: Karoo 2 (use code THEGRAVELRIDE for free HRM) Veloworthy Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (Host): Brian, welcome to the show. [00:00:03]Brian Co: Thanks. It's so good to be here. I am so excited to be on your podcast. Uh, you know, we, we've been both been doing this for a while, but you've obviously surpassed many of the hobbyists, uh, in the, in the cycling podcast scene, so you're definitely authority when it comes to podcasts, cycling, podcasts. [00:00:24]Craig Dalton (Host): I appreciate it. And, um, you know, as we were reminiscing offline a little bit, your original podcast, the SoCal Cyclist, was one of those that was in my steady rotation as I started getting into listening to podcasts and thinking about doing one myself. [00:00:41]Brian Co: Well, thanks. I'm, uh, do I get a royalty from each episode? [00:00:47]Craig Dalton (Host): Well, you know how cycling media works so you can get a royalty, but it's not gonna do much for you. [00:00:52]Brian Co: It, it'll be, it'll, it'll be, uh, fractions of as cent, I'm sure. [00:00:57]Craig Dalton (Host): Exactly. Hey Brian, as you know, we all start the show. I love to learn like where'd you grow up and how did you find cycling originally? [00:01:05]Brian Co: You know, ironically, you know, I'm kind of, before velo worthy was known as SoCal Cyclist or SoCal Cyclist podcast, and I've ridden all over Southern California, LA Verdugo Hills, San Diego mostly. I'm based out of North County. Uh, but I actually grew up in Northern California. Um, where I think I'll, I'm a little bit biased. I think Northern California when I was growing up had a. And more robust cycling scene than Southern California, which was mostly crit heavy. Uh, so I grew up in the flat heat of Sacramento and um, you know, I think when I was, I. Probably two years old. My dad took me, my brother and all my cousins to this grassy park area called Ansel Hoffman Park and just said, I'm gonna teach you all how to ride a bike in one day. And we just, you know, the age gap between me and my cousins is about five years, and I was the youngest and we all learned the exact same day how to ride bikes. And then so like, Seven, six years later, uh, I entered my first bike race. Um, I was eight years old and it was a B M X race and I just loved it. You know, B M X was very, very big in the eighties and, uh, you know, the movie ET had just come out and there's a scene where they had take ET on the bike and they're like going down the hills and stuff, and I wanted to be Elliot from et I even remember wearing a red hoodie with the hood on. Just so I could pretend to be Elliot from et. And then when I was nine years old, I got introduced to, uh, road cycling, uh, by my cousins. And they all took this trip on the bike from LA to San Diego. I was too young to go, so I was there, but my brother and my cousins, three of 'em all went and they were, you know, 12. 13 years old. Uh, and, and they all did it. And then since after that I was like, I gotta get into bikes. Luckily there was this, this race, it was the biggest race in America at the time, equivalent to like the tour of California was. It was called the Chorus Classic. And it went through my town and it was the first time I actually. Got to meet Greg Lamond in person. And you know, I'm a little kid trying to get an autograph and I'm like tugging at his la claire jersey and he turns around and just gives me a smile because he was being surrounded by people. He had just won the tour of France, uh, for the first time. And, uh, since that point, cycling has, has been the only sport I've ever really known other than like high school, cross country and track. [00:03:59]Craig Dalton (Host): Okay. Interesting. So while you were in high school, I know, I know a lot of kids sort of end up leaving the sport in high school because of social pressures or other sports. Sounds like you kind of maintained and were still riding at that point. [00:04:14]Brian Co: Well, I think it was, it comes down to luck because I was just born at the right time. Like when I was a junior. I remember races being so full that they'd have to have heats and. It was actually cool to be a young junior cyclist. This is, I'm a few years younger than the Lance Armstrong sort of generation of guys like him and Hin, capi and a few others. Um, but when we were little, we all idolized being on like the seven 11 team or the postal service team, and it was actually cool. Today you see more of like. The older, older helmet, mirror bandana wearing crew that maybe thrive peaked in those days. But I think we're seeing a resurgence with, with gravel and, and a few other disciplines [00:05:05]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah, certainly with youth, I mean, as you know, in Northern California we have big Nika League, so youth mountain biking at the high school level is insane up here. I I, the Mount Tam School high school team here in my town of Mill Valley, there's 60 kids on that team, which is an unbelievable number. And some of these kids are elite level athletes by the time they're leaving their senior year. [00:05:31]Brian Co: Yeah, it's uh, Nike's becoming the new collegiate cycling. 'cause all we had back in the day was, if you're good enough in high school, you went to a college that had a cycling team. And then I. If you were good enough to race the A category, which was like equivalent to CAT one, two, uh, you might be able to get a pro contract if you did well at a national championship. But Naica now has totally replaced that and the kids are younger, they're more talented, and even though bikes are getting more expensive and equipment is more expensive, they're able to find ways to to do that. I remember my first. Bike race as a junior. I think I was 14 or 15. I did the Mount Tam Hill climb and I was on junior Gears and one of the kids that won, he was on like the, I remember he was on the full team, Richie, uh, red, white and blue kit, and he had a mountain bike that was rigged up to be like, had skinny tires and he blew the doors off of everyone, but. Um, I just remember thinking, I can't compete with this level of talent for all the Bay Area kids. They're just head and shoulder 'cause they can all climb me. In Sacramento, I was okay on the flats and in crits, but you go to the Bay Area and they can just, they're little miniature, you know, Alberto Contours just climbing up the mountains. It was totally [00:06:55]Craig Dalton (Host): you end up, did you end up going to a university that had a cycling program? [00:06:59]Brian Co: Yeah. So, uh, when I was in high school, you know, I, I looked at different colleges. I ended up going to Northern Arizona University and Flagstaff that had I. Uh, a really big cycling team. In fact, um, the first Collegiate National Mountain Bike Championship I did, and, uh, the team got third in the Omnia behind, I think it was like CU Boulder and Stanford. And n a u is not known for a whole lot, but Flagstaff itself is a city, is, is a great place for mountain biking and just, it's at, it's at 7,000 feet altitude. And so you're, you're living at 7,000 feet, you're training at eight to 9,000 feet, and then you just, you have so much, uh, ability to do a lot. And so I actually abandoned road racing and went through like three years of a mountain bike phase. [00:07:54]Craig Dalton (Host): I was just gonna ask you that. [00:07:56]Brian Co: Yeah, rode a Bri Bridgestone, uh, fully rigid, uh, mountain bike, 26 inch wheels. And then my suspension, it was called a soft ride suspension stem. [00:08:07]Craig Dalton (Host): Uh, Brian, don't even talk to me about that. That's painful. [00:08:11]Brian Co: Yeah, [00:08:11]Craig Dalton (Host): had one of those. [00:08:12]Brian Co: jackhammer down these, down, these like breaking bumps. And I'm like, and uh, I, but at the time, like it was that, or like I think Rock Shocks had just come out with like the Judy or something. And so, uh, I did three national championships. Um, the hardest one I ever did was in Kentucky. Uh, a young up and comer from Fort Lewis. His name was Todd Wells, uh, lapped me on the last lap, and I'm like, who is this weirdo? And, uh, he ended up being one of the most dominant mountain bikers in America after that. So I, I hung up my mountain bike cleats after that point. [00:08:52]Craig Dalton (Host): So let's fast forward a number of years you find yourself in Southern California. It sounds like you were still racing criteriums. Recognizing you're not going pro, but still like many of us just loving the sport and continuing to do it. Tell me about like the transition from that to starting to talk about it on the podcast. [00:09:12]Brian Co: Oh, well, I think anyone who grows up with cycling needs, especially from a young age, needs to take a break. So I, I moved to Southern California just because I could, I could ride my bike year round, but then I ended up falling in love with the ocean and I, and I sold all my bike stuff and I ended up taking up surfing for like the next eight years straight. All I did was surf. And I even remember taking like my friends who were like pro cyclists out surfing and then they get hooked. Like my friend, uh, Alex Rio who was on Optum and Rally moved here and I was like his motor pacing guy, but I'm like, Hey, there's a ocean ride here like a hundred feet that way. Let's go get surfboards. And then he ended up loving it so much he moved to Hawaii, ended up starting big island bike tours there. Um, so I, I, I took a break from the sport. I, you know, got a little burned out. I was a little, uh, you know, it was during the whole doping e p o, you know, post live strong kind of mess. And I still followed the tour and stuff on tv, but I, I just wasn't racing anymore. And then one day, like. You know, in 2012 I just got, I, I used my beach cruiser 'cause everyone in Southern California has beach cruisers and I just started doing five miles, 10 miles, 20 miles up to 30 miles on a beach cruiser that weighs about 55 pounds with a basket and a lock. And then, uh, I told myself one day, okay, cool, I'm on a beach cruiser. I'm riding in board shorts and a t-shirt and a helmet, and there's this climb in Southern California called Tory Pines. And I, I said to myself, okay, if I can pass a guy in a real bike kit and a real road bike, I'm gonna buy myself a road bike. And I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do it. So I, I finally, Saw somebody in a d in like a team kit. I think it was the Swamis team, which is a big team in Southern California. Cotton passed him. I was so gassed up at the top. I remember he said something to me. I think it was a compliment. My bike, it wasn't a single speed, it was a three speed internal hub. And then next day I got a road bike and started racing. And then the first crit I entered, I think it was like masters. I got. I got 13th place and then I was like 13th place with no training, but still the skills. And then I started doing more and more and more and catted up and then started doing the the 35 plus masters, which is I. Uh, probably as fast as the pro one, two, uh, guys, I mean, a lot of 'em are ex pros themselves and just started doing that and then was having so much fun. Decided to create a podcast, talking to all my friends about, um, bike racing and stuff like that. [00:12:15]Craig Dalton (Host): Nice, nice. Yeah. To your point, like in California, the master's class, like there's so many great riders and ex pros scattered across California, you hop into a Master's category. You may very well be racing against an X Pro. [00:12:31]Brian Co: Oh yeah, like I remember I was fighting somebody's wheel just so I could draft behind his name's. Ivan Dominguez, he is the Cuban missile. Just 'cause I wanted to look at his calves. I. That's all I wanted to do. And be like, oh, what gear is he using? And he's like this slow churn, you know, opposite of like spin to win, just mashing the gear. And I was just staring at his calves going, this is so cool. Ivan Dominguez, you know, former multi-time, you know, crit and Road Race champion, uh, and I'm in the same race as him and stuff like that is just, is super cool. [00:13:05]Craig Dalton (Host): Amazing. So you, you're, you start the SoCal cyclist to talk to your friends and just kind of explore another creative outlet as you've got a young child in at the home. Right. [00:13:15]Brian Co: Yeah. Well, at the time, and again, this is in 2016, there wasn't a whole lot of cycling podcasts, and the ones that did exist were very, um, tech heavy. Like they focused on disc breaks and stuff like that, which is great. But I wanted to focus on me and one guest every week for 52 weeks and to see if I could actually do it. But, and, and again, this is. Uh, people physically coming over to my house and recording. So it's the most inefficient way possible. And so, uh, I, I, I met that goal. I, I don't know why I even did it, but I, uh, you know, it started out as, as my friends in the first few episodes, and then by the last it was, you know, a lot of the top people in the sport. So I think it gained a lot of momentum after that. [00:14:07]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah, and I can't recall how I originally found and discovered your podcast, but even before you rebranded to Velo Worthy, I was a listener, as you know, and when we connected at that first. Sea Otter, I think we were saying it might've been 2018. I was sort of fanboying you 'cause I knew you had done a lot of episodes. You're putting good content out there. Um, and it was fun to just connect with another podcaster to just trade insights. 'cause as you allo alluded to, the technology we're using back then was pretty rudimentary and difficult compared to what we're able to use today. [00:14:46]Brian Co: Yeah, you're right. Like. Whenever we record or put something out there, not just in podcasting, but in videos or anything, all you're staring at are numbers. So when you see somebody in person, you're like, oh, wow, somebody actually, this isn't all just a facade, like somebody actually is listening and we're talking about in person. So I think that's so cool. I mean, to this day, you know, most recently I was at Unbound, um, and I, I was so. Flattered and kind of validated that people would be like, oh, I watch your race coverage or your YouTube channel, and it just kind of blows me away. And I'm like, oh, really? You watch it? That's cool. And then they talk about it and stuff. So, uh, it still blows my mind. And I, I love that kind of thing. It's cool. [00:15:35]Craig Dalton (Host): so it is interesting in talking and getting a little bit more of your backstory to learn that. You know you had that mountain bike period in your life when you were back in Flagstaff. Then you come back to the road doing your thing, start podcasting Covid hits. I know you decided to kind of put the brakes on the podcast for a little while. I'm curious, in that sort of interim period from 2020 to now, it sounds like you've really kind of discovered gravel as being something that both suits you. Professionally with what you're doing with Worthy, but also just liking the, the vibe of the community and the style of riding. [00:16:15]Brian Co: Yeah, I mean 2020, you know, if, if everything shut down and there's no more races or even, like, I remember the group rides were a fraction of the size they were. Uh, why not do gravel where it's out in the open, it's. Mostly unsanctioned unless you sign up for something. And uh, I think the timing of everything just kind of worked. Um, gravel and I think gravel events kind of really took off between 2020 and now. And I think it appeals to so many people, including myself, because the rules are kind of unwritten. I mean, if I tried to do this, With a road background or a road focus, it would be 10 times more red tape to go to an event, especially like a U C I World Tour event because I, I have gone to like, uh, the tour of France and, um, Amgen Tour of California and just to go through those channels. It's very tradition based. Um, I, I interviewed one writer stuck a microphone in his face. Nathan Haas, he's, he's in gravel now actually, but at the time he, I think he was on like Catusa and he had just finished the stage and I just asked him a question and he reaches toward my lanyard with my media credential and he looks at it and goes, who am I talking to? And, uh, didn't even occur to me to like, Show him my badge. But if I did that at a gravel race, they'd be like, who are you trying to fool? Just talk to me like it. There doesn't need to be this vetting process. Um, so I think gravel gives that kind of freedom. [00:18:01]Craig Dalton (Host): So we don't, so the listener doesn't lear lose the thread here. Let's talk about velo worthy and what you're working on today because it's not a podcast anymore. [00:18:11]Brian Co: No, I, God, I, I need to get back into podcasting 'cause I miss it so much and I'm so excited just being on a podcast like, energizes me so much. But, so velo worthy is primarily, uh, a digital media brand where, uh, For lack of a better term, I make videos and put 'em up on YouTube. Um, but the, the thing about it is I've found this weird niche, uh, with my brand that not many other brands are doing. Um, you're either, most people, you know, if you're like, I. Tyler Pierce, a k a vegan cyclist, you're a vlogger or you, you focus on yourself and your accomplishments. Other writers do that as well. Um, Adam Roberts has his own channel, for example, Alexi has his own channel, for example. So if you're not that, you're either a, a. Working for a media brand. So if you work for Envy or something, you're just doing envy content at these events. But right now there's really nothing that captures the holistic view of an event where you're ca, you're not beholden to one writer necessarily or one brand. You're just trying to cover everything, which is a lot of work. But I think there's something to be said to. Sort of capture an unbiased view of what goes on at cycling events and just seeing things, how they unfold. [00:19:36]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah, I think that's the thing that I take away from your videos is that you really do get the sense and feeling of the event. It's not a, an overly packaged, overly produced look at the entirety of the event. You really do. Because you're on the ground, because you're moving through the course, you're capturing footage that's just feels real, like you're seeing the mud on the tires. And when it comes to unbound, you're seeing the jockeying for water. At some of the stations, you're seeing how the riders are handling their pits. And I just feel like as a viewer, you do get a really strong sense of what it's like to be there versus this overly glamorized kind of prepackaged view of what the race weekend experience looked like. [00:20:27]Brian Co: Well, first of all, I'm just not good enough to make something highly produced because that takes a lot of talent, you know, to get that nice, you know, transition effect or whatever. But all kidding aside though, I really like, um, being in the moment, you're kind of up close and personal and, and the thing about gravel racing, the biggest flaw is it's not good for spectating. You start and then you finish either in the same... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27692070

Wilde Bicycle Co - Founder, Jeffrey Frane 06/29/2023

Wilde Bicycle Co - Founder, Jeffrey Frane This week on the podcast we dive into the origin story of Wilde Bicycle Co with founder, Jeffrey Frane. As a child, Jeffrey found the bike and along the way found freedom, adventure, and ultimately, a calling. Jeffrey has spend over twenty years in the bike industry finding himself at QBP managing the All City Brand since its earliest days. His experience and passion has led to the founding of Wilde Bicycle Co. Wilde Bicycle Co. Episode Sponsor: Hammerhead Karoo 2 (use THEGRAVELRIDE for free HRM) Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (Host): Hey Jeff, welcome to the show. [00:00:04]Jeff Frane: Uh, hey Craig. It's great to be here. [00:00:06]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun. I'm excited to learn more about you and more about the Wild Bicycle brand. So let's, let's start off by where, where'd you grow up and how'd you discover the bike? [00:00:16]Jeff Frane: All right, so, uh, for the listeners joining us, uh, my name is Jeffrey Frame and I am from, I grew up in the North Woods of Wisconsin. In a small logging slash milltown called Rhinelander, Wisconsin. A shout out to the Hoda. Um, so I grew up small town Wisconsin and luckily there were a bunch of mountain bikers around and we had, you know, several mountain bike races like twice a year. And, um, all these woods to explore. And got hooked on bikes as a kid because it was the only way I could leave my neighborhood. I lived outside of town where most of my friends lived in town, so I had to get there somehow. And my parents had jobs, so it was ride the bike and I just never stopped. You know, when I was 16, when most people, you know, kind of put down the bike. I was really afraid of killing somebody. I was, I was immature. I'm, you know, I, I, up until like my 40th birthday, I was pretty immature. Um, but I was afraid of hurting somebody with, you know, the power of an automobile scared the crap out of me. So I just like never got my license and I just kept riding. I did eventually get my license, you know, when I was 20 years old, but, so I just never stopped. [00:01:34]Craig Dalton (Host): and was it just sort of pleasure riding back then, or you'd mentioned there was a couple [00:01:37]Jeff Frane: Yeah. [00:01:38]Craig Dalton (Host): Did you get drawn into the race scene at all? [00:01:40]Jeff Frane: did. Um, and it was, it was wonderful. My parents were always incredibly, uh, supportive of my sporting endeavors. And, um, in Wisconsin, we're really blessed to have the Wars series, uh, the Wisconsin Off-Road series, which is one of the largest and longest running, I think, state series in the country. And, uh, they would take me to the races. I started racing in junior high, uh, in the local stuff on my Little Trek eight 30. And, uh, that was wonderful and then kind of progressed. And then in high school we started racing full war circuits and my parents were awesome enough to take the time off of work and to kinda lug me around so that I could get, you know, fifth place in a sport class or whatever. [00:02:20]Craig Dalton (Host): I love it. And was there, was there a high school mountain bike scene back then, or was, were you a little bit of a, an outcast? [00:02:26]Jeff Frane: yeah, I was the only, I had some friends kind of coming up or growing up who raced with me, but once we got to high school, it was largely me. You know, we didn't have Nica or anything like that. In fact, I remember I played hockey as well, that um, I got a local sponsorship from Schwinn and like it was this big kerfuffle cuz like, they didn't know if I was still eligible for hockey and all these people were really upset about it and, you know, whatever. Um, I was, it turned out I was eligible for hockey, but, [00:02:55]Craig Dalton (Host): Some, someone just need to explain to the hockey world that bicycle sponsorship is not exactly making a living. [00:03:00]Jeff Frane: no, and you know, there was no money. But, uh, so, you know, I, I just, I just kept racing and mountain bikes were my first love and it was just a way of exploring, you know, the area around me. And we had a cool local shop, Mel's trading post, and they were super rad to me and put me on the little bike team. And then we got, that team got sponsored by Schwinn and, um, you know, it all, all just kind of held together until I went to the university and. As a poor college student, I really couldn't afford to race, but I was able to still ride my bike all the time. [00:03:32]Craig Dalton (Host): Were you still in Wisconsin at that point? [00:03:34]Jeff Frane: Yeah. I went to the University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire, [00:03:37]Craig Dalton (Host): Okay. [00:03:37]Jeff Frane: um, which is like a, a rivertown and, you know, a couple trail systems, but found, started finding like the bigger community, you know, there were a bunch of really fast racers and I learned so much by chasing these people around, you know, eventually got to. I still raced a little bit in college and was able to race expert where I got my butt absolutely handed to me. Um, and then after, after college, I spent a couple years living in my van, uh, 1992 Dodge Caravan. [00:04:05]Craig Dalton (Host): out Dodge Caravan. [00:04:07]Jeff Frane: I was gonna, I was like, I can't shout out too many things, but yeah, the Dodge Caravan was a, was a workhorse. Really good car. Went through transmissions like he wouldn't believe though. Uh, so lived in that for a while. And then, um, I got tired of, of living on people's couches and just being broke and there was a, a person I wanted to date. So I came back here and now I live in Minneapolis. I've been here since 2005. And like that's really kind of when I think things really took off for me in terms of bicycles as a lifestyle. You know, that was the height of the fixed gear. Boom. And, you know, so I, I moved to the, I moved to city, the city with like a single speed Magna Mountain bike that I had cut the bars down. I had like my little Dickies Messenger bag and I was like, oh, you know, like in the big, I'm gonna cut traffic. And cuz I had grown up like seeing bike messengers and like MTV sports and stuff [00:04:57]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah. [00:04:58]Jeff Frane: and uh, you know, got a job at a bike shop, started wrenching. And, um, started my little company Bike Jerks. So if you find me on Instagram, my handle is bike jerks, uh, which was a dumb inside joke at the shop. And it seemed like a real funny thing to call my, my little company, uh, when I was 25. Now I'm 43. Not as funny, but I'm stuck with it. Um, and the reason that started is like I needed a, I always needed a creative outlet and I really wanted to participate in the community. I wanted to organize, I wanted to throw races. So I needed a platform to do that. So I invented this thing, bike Jerks, which was the little, um, you know, platform for me to throw Alley Cats and Bandit Cross and, and other events. [00:05:41]Craig Dalton (Host): gotcha. Yeah, it seems like that Minneapolis bike scene is, has always been so creative and spanned so many different disciplines of the B of the sport, including disciplines that no one knows even exists, like tall bikes and random cobbled together bikes. [00:05:58]Jeff Frane: Yeah, it's, it's weird being here cuz we're a straight flyover country. You know, anything that gets media attention or national renowned is pretty much coastal. Um, so we, it's awesome to hear people say that. And, you know, people know that we're a bike city, but like, nobody comes visits Minneapolis, you know, um, we're kind of forgotten about. But we have this really, really special and unique culture. And, you know, there was Gene Ober, pillar and Hur ever stone. And Paul Ziegel and you know, the surly bikes and there's all these pretty amazing contributions that have been made. You know, single speed mountain biking. It wasn't invented here by any means, but I think it took on like its bigger cultural relevance. There was a huge push for that here, especially with, you know, surly bikes coming on outta the scene. Um, so we're standing on the shoulders of giants. There is an amazing, amazing culture that goes back generations, uh, here in the Twin Cities. [00:06:53]Craig Dalton (Host): And then I'm not sure exactly when quality bike parts came to be, but qbp is this cornerstone sort of backbone of the bicycle industry. Maybe you can describe who they are and what they do. [00:07:05]Jeff Frane: Yeah, so q uh, so the first shop I worked at here in Minneapolis was FreeWheel Bike. It was originally a co-op. By the time I got there, it was no longer a co-op. Uh, but, uh, what Steve Flagg, the owner of qbp, was one of the owners of the co-op, and they were, Essentially frustrated not being able to get small repair parts from Europe. And so he started bringing in repair parts and boom, that's how Quality Bicycles products got started. Him and his wife Mary, and you know, now it's the largest bicycle distributor distribution business in North America. They own Surly, they own Salsa, they own All City. They own whiskey. They own 45 North. Um, you know, it's a, it's a massive, massive operation. [00:07:48]Craig Dalton (Host): Yeah. Yeah. Super interesting. I never, I never knew that backstory, but I've, I've certainly known Q BP my entire cycling life, it seems like. And you've ultimately, you've found your way [00:07:58]Jeff Frane: to Q. Yeah. So you know, there Qbp was always like the, you know, like the beacon on the hill kind of thing. It was like all the shop rats were like trying to get to Q and uh, I was lucky enough to get hired there, so I worked like part-time seasonal at FreeWheel bike my first year in Minneapolis. Got laid off for the winter, uh, took a bunch of weird random jobs and eventually, um, QVP was hiring for warehouse people. And so I started there. I think in, it would've been 2006, uh, as part-time seasonal picking, packing, labeling, like literally the bottom rung on the totem pole. You know, it doesn't get much lower. Um, you know, in terms of. I mean, it's a fine job. I don't mean to say that the job was low, but you know, as far as the ranking goes, you're a part-time seasonal employee. [00:08:52]Craig Dalton (Host): it's the entry point. The very [00:08:53]Jeff Frane: Yeah, it's the entry entry point for sure. Um, so I got a job there and you know, by that time I was already kind of getting a reputation as like the fixed gear guy and I was already active in the community here in Minneapolis, organizing events. And they recognized that love and that passion that I had. And so, um, a few years in, I was able to start suggesting some product to Lisa Snyder, um, who was the brand manager of Dimension at the time. So there was the Dimension brand and they had like some track things and you know, kind of the whole thing was I was like, Yo, I'm really into track bikes and you have nothing I wanna buy. Like I'm buying all my stuff from Mary Sales and from these other distributors, Euro, Asia, imports, et cetera. Like, what's going on? Like, you're freaking qbp. Like, y'all need to do better. And so I started suggesting some product to her and she brought them in under the dimension label, and they did well. And then I was able to suggest more products. And then those did well. And eventually, um, I kind of got the, I was talking to Lisa about doing some other stuff. It just didn't go anywhere. And eventually I kind of got the guts up to say, oh, screw it. I'm going right to the top. And I drafted this, like, you know, at the time I thought it was really like rock solid, but it's ridiculously amateurish, like little business proposal for a brand that I was calling All City. Um, and the reason I needed a name change was I was like, I wanna do nicer stuff and people don't wanna buy nice stuff from dimension like that is repair level parts. So, I wanted a track crank, um, because there was a shortage at that time of 1 44 bolt, circle, diameter, you know, track cranks. And um, so I was like, let's call it All City. So All City Championships was the name of my alley cat that I was throwing every year. So the name comes from, uh, graffiti, uh, in New York City. Um, There's a term called being All City. And what that meant was that you had a piece on, on a train in all five boroughs. You were all city. So my race went to every part of the city, so that's why it was the All City Championships. And I just thought that would be a slick name for, you know, an urban track bike brand. And so, [00:11:14]Craig Dalton (Host): such a cool origin story of the name All City. I'd never heard that before. [00:11:20]Jeff Frane: Yeah, well, there's not many people, many. There's no one left to tell the story, like, I'm it, I'm the dinosaur. Um, [00:11:27]Craig Dalton (Host): So you started out All City and and didn't know this also All City started out with a basic concept of more premium track. Track componentry. [00:11:37]Jeff Frane: to make nicer stuff and I didn't think anybody would buy nicer stuff with the dimension label. Um, you know, it was kind of a weird deal cuz I like nice stuff. I've always been in a vintage bicycles and so like we had to kind of Trojan horse some of the ideas in, so like, I was like, okay, cool, now we have these parts. I wanna do a track bike and I wanna do a Minneapolis track bike. And we have winners in Minneapolis, which means, and fixed gears are like, are the best thing for winter commuters because, Maintaining a geared bike is just, that's way too much work. You know, I want the simplest bike I possibly can for these salty, crappy, slushy wind, you know, weather we have. Um, so I want our track bike that's a real track bike with real track geometry, but I wanna be able to fit a bigger tire. And, you know, at that time, like $500 complete fixed gears we're like dominating the market. And so I'm like, yeah, we're gonna do a $500, you know, uh, track bike just to like get the project rolling. Knowing damn well I don't wanna ride a $500 track bike. Like, no way. I wanna, I like nice stuff. Um, so then it was, you know, we kick off the project and I'm like, you know, I've done some market research and I really think that that price point is saturated. Like what we really need to do is do a thousand dollars track bike. Uh, no one's there, like no one's in that market space and we can put all our own parts on it and we don't have to use this cheap stuff. And that's how the big block was born. That's why it's a nice bike. Uh, because I convinced them that the $500 price point, price point, there was too much competition and we could never win that game. So we need to go upmarket. [00:13:10]Craig Dalton (Host): And at that point had QBP acquired or started any other, uh, full bike brand [00:13:15]Jeff Frane: Yeah. So Surly started, um, in like 1999. They changed their name to Surly in 98. So 1998 was when the Surly, or was when the one by one. Which was the precursor name to Surly Rat Ride came out and they had done some parts before that. Uh, sh I'm gonna do another shout out to Wakeman Massey, uh, founder of Surly Bikes. He, um, freaking visionary surly bikes, in my opinion, is the most influential bike brand of the last, you know, 30 years. Um, the steel Renaissance fat tire clearance. Every modern gravel bike is a crosscheck. Like I know they're, they didn't invent that stuff. Um, you know, big tire clearances, blah, blah, blah. But they popularized it and democratized it, and I think brought it to the forefront of the culture. [00:14:03]Craig Dalton (Host): Certainly democratized it. I would, I would double click on that one. And yes, double shout out to Wakeman. He may, he definitely doesn't remember this, but I met him back when I was at Dean Bicycles. I think he rolled in his first, Ever framed that he welded himself at university, a 24 inch dirt jumper that was ratty as hell, but he was super enthusiastic and passionate, and I think we even tried to hire him, but he wanted to go move somewhere else other than Boulder. [00:14:30]Jeff Frane: Yeah. Um, you know, and the fat bikes and 29 ERs and blah, blah, blah. Like surly, you know, they've done some really special things for sure. Um, and you know, QBP had already bought salsa, um, prior to that. So they had salsa and qbp, or I'm sorry, salsa and surly they had Sylvia at that time. Um, [00:14:51]Craig Dalton (Host): had, you started to kind of understand what a supply chain for a full bicycle looked like at that point when you brought the idea of the track bike to them. [00:14:59]Jeff Frane: I mean, kind of, you know, so like I, again, like with it was all baby steps, right? Um, You know, I was at first when All City started in 2008. It was 15 hours a week, and I was the sales and marketing coordinator, and then I made it to 20 hours a week, and then I made it to 30 hours a week. Well, you know, I was still doing warehouse stuff and all this, you know, and eventually it got to be a full-time position for me. Um, with Lisa still, like with Lisa still in charge. Like Lisa was awesome. She was the operations person and she had a really strong product background. [00:15:37]Craig Dalton (Host): yeah. [00:15:38]Jeff Frane: Um, and I was able to contribute, you know, my ideas and passion for the urban, you know, what we used then called urban cycling, um, for that. And, you know, we were a really, really great team. [00:15:50]Craig Dalton (Host): So that was probably the urban cycling angle for all cities, probably where my knowledge intersected with the existence of all cities. I started seeing these steel bikes underneath who were clearly passionate commuters in San Francisco. So how, how quickly did it kind of go from track bike? It's a commuter bike. And when did you start to see, hey, people are using these to ride on dirt? [00:16:14]Jeff Frane: Um, I mean, so right away the big block cleared a 32 seat tire, which in 2009 was like a pretty good sized tire. And you know, we were, before track lacrosse was track lacrosse, we were riding our fixes, you know, in the dirt, uh, doing that kind of stuff. Um, I had gotten interested in cycl lacrosse. We put out the Nature Boy, which is a single speed cross bike. You know, all city's evolution was always, there were always constraints for all city. We had surly on one side of us, we had salsa on the other. And it was like, how are we going to be different and offer something actually unique and not just, um, you know, compete with our sister brand. So, you know, the Nature Boy was a dedicated single speed, which didn't exist in the QBP for portfolio, you know, and when people came up, they're like, oh, that's just a stop and crosscheck like, what are you idiot kids doing? It's like, well, you know, ride the thing like, Um, you know, the nature boy, all the canal cities, I think have, have aged really well and become kind of culty classic bikes. Um, so, you know, I think, I think that came out well. We, we put out a bunch of fixie freestyle bikes if people remember fixed gear freestyle, which were also super fun to ride on dirt cuz they had big tire clearance. Uh, then we did the Nature Boy. Um, I think the bike after that was we went geared with the, with the macho man. And the Mr. Pink and the Space Horse and the Space horse was like the bike that really unlocked all cities potential. And you know, we've always been, I've always been interested in all facets of cycling and, you know, we saw what was happening with the crosscheck and it was like, well let's, if we make a bike like that, we're gonna sell a bunch. And that was the Space Horse, and it was our own spin on things. It was as sporty of a light touring bike as we could possibly make. Um, You know, that was Anna Schwinn's design and she absolutely crushed it with that. And that's the one that like started really opening doors and opening a lot of outside eyes to the brand because it was... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27329013

Denis Faye: The BWR Guide to Eating Like a Semi Pro 06/13/2023

Denis Faye: The BWR Guide to Eating Like a Semi Pro 🚴‍♂️ In today's episode, we explore the crucial role of nutrition 🍎 in endurance events such as the Belgian Waffle Ride (BWR), as we discuss this fascinating topic with Denis Faye, an expert in the field of cycling nutrition. Throughout the episode, our conversation delves into the importance of fueling our bodies and minds for perseverance in endurance racing. Along the way, we share personal experiences of trial ✍️ and error, discussing the lessons we've learned about proper nutrition through these challenges. We cover valuable insights from Denis's book, The BWR Guide to Eating Like a Semi Pro, focusing on developing healthier diet plans, practicing gut training, and understanding the specific fuels needed for varying lengths of endurance racing. Additionally, we reminisce about some unique racing moments, including unconventional food choices that may not have been the best ideas 😅. Join us as we gain a deeper understanding of the art and science 💡 behind nutrition for endurance cycling. Don't miss this informative and insightful episode, designed to help you enhance your cycling performance. 📈 Episode Sponsor: : The BWR Guide to Eating Like a Semi-Pro Denis Faye Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton (host): Denis, welcome to the show. [00:00:05]Denis Faye: Thanks. I, I [00:00:06]Craig Dalton (host): It's good to connect with you. I'm glad you [00:00:08]Denis Faye: Oh, it is, I, uh, you're, you're my, you're my target market. You're, you're the exact, uh, your people are my people. So, um, I, I really appreciate you, uh, checking out the book and having me on. [00:00:21]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I feel like every year I wanna make sure to have conversations about nutrition because I. I think it's, it's something that's a very complex subject. Yet with the right information in front of you, it's easy to make a plan to be successful during a race like B W [00:00:39]Denis Faye: Yeah. And, and there's, there's things you need and there's things you don't need, and you can kind of start with the basic stuff and work your way up. And it's also nice cuz you, you, you learn by doing, like everyone's gonna bonk. At some point, you're gonna, you're gonna have the worst trace in the world, and there's no better, there's no better way than to learn, than have something horrible happen because it's like, you know, grabbing the stove, the hot pad, you, you don't forget. So, [00:01:09]Craig Dalton (host): Yep. And in particularly in in these long races, I feel like there's opportunities to feel like crap, and there's opportunities to recover from feeling like crap. It's just about keeping going and making those adjustments to your nutrition. To fuel that recovery, to get the power back in your system and your [00:01:28]Denis Faye: Yeah, exactly. I, I mean, you're, it's, especially when you're getting into the hundreds of miles, it's, it's a foregone conclusion that you're gonna run outta glycogen and blood sugar if you're going hard because you can, you, uh, can you expend more than you absorb. You don't, you just can't absorb that much, so, There's just some things you can do to kind of stave off the inevitable. [00:01:53]Craig Dalton (host): And I think even in that, even in what you just said, there's an important realization for the listener in that you're not gonna stay completely ahead of the situation. It's about staving off the damage and never getting to a completely depleted moment in your your day effectively. [00:02:12]Denis Faye: I mean, it's important to accept that moment because, I, I mean, a really important thing, especially in a, in a gravel situation where there's a lot of thinking you gotta do, um, once you're bonking, like your brain needs sugar too. So, uh, you and you feel miserable and you're probably not making the best choices. So keep that in mind if you're gonna bomb a hill when you're bonking, because it may seem like a break, but your, your brain's still trying to figure out how to navigate that thing. So, [00:02:40]Craig Dalton (host): yes. I've had many of perplexing bad decisions after bonking in a long endurance event. Stuff that just, I can't reconcile how I could possibly be so dumb in that moment in [00:02:53]Denis Faye: it's cuz your brain was outta gas, so [00:02:56]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, totally, totally. I, one just quick antidote before I want, I definitely wanna get into your background. Um, during Ironman, I remember I had a, a, a particular time goal that I wanted to achieve and I got so bunked in the run that I could not do the simple math to get to that point and force myself to continue forward and hit that goal, which was attainable. It's just my foggy math led me to believe I had more time than I actually had to meet my [00:03:26]Denis Faye: it's what? What Iron Man was that? [00:03:29]Craig Dalton (host): I, I did, uh, that was Ironman [00:03:31]Denis Faye: Oh, okay. Hold on. [00:03:33]Craig Dalton (host): so I did, I did Canada in New Zealand. I'm probably like losing listeners as we speak by admitting to being a triathlete, but I, they were absolutely formative experiences to me from a nutritional [00:03:45]Denis Faye: okay. You know what, two years ago I did a half iron man in, so, you know, and I'd like to do a full, I messed up my shoulder, but when this thing's fixed, I, I do plan it. I'd like to do a full too, so maybe they're just okay. Now, whoever was sticking around. They listen to me left because we're both triathletes. [00:04:05]Craig Dalton (host): Both admitted triathletes at times in our lives. Well, let's, let's do what we always do at the beginning of the show, Denny, and let's, let's just talk about your background and how you found your way to cycling. Cause I know it, it happened later in life for you. And then we'll talk about, because obviously it's germane to the, to the book we're gonna be talking about a little bit later, how you found your way into the field of nutrition and how you kind of learned along the way as you [00:04:28]Denis Faye: Awesome. That sounds great. So, [00:04:32]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. How did you discover the bike [00:04:35]Denis Faye: um, a guy named Steve Edwards, I mean, I always rode bikes. I, I, uh, heard the podcast a few weeks, ba was it weeks back, Andrew? I. Vance was on, he was talking about his banana seat bike. I mean, I had one of those. And then I had a BMX bike. It was a Pook, P u C h, it was a terrible bike. And you know, and then 10 speed and, you know, and, um, then, uh, in my twenties I had a diamond back and aluminum mountain bike, but never really took it seriously. Uh, and then, uh, in. Uh, it was 2012. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was 2012. Um, I've always had kind of a, I like to do hard things or, or stupid things depending on your opinion of me. And, uh, my friend Steve Edwards, who was my, uh, boss at Beachbody, he was like, you know, you, um, you'd probably be really good at bikes. And he was a hardcore, um, cyclist and so he gave me this, uh, CAD four. This cannondale, it was one size too big. It was like a 58, but, um, that didn't matter. I, I, I rode 20 mile. Well, actually got on the bike, rode here from Redondo to the bridge to the marina, which was like 10 miles to get there and along the beach. And it was just magic. Of course, it was the first time I had ever clipped in. So I ran, like, I rode my 10 miles, got to the bridge. Stopped and fell over sideways. You know, [00:06:01]Craig Dalton (host): Of [00:06:02]Denis Faye: you gotta figure that out. But, um, and it just went from there. I, I, uh, graduated past that bike and, um, the year after that Steve was like, you know, you'd probably be pretty good at mountain biking. So, um, just showed up at my house one day with a couple of, uh, a couple of full suspension bikes and took me up in Santa Monica mountains and. That was, uh, that was more of a learning curve that was, came home from that pretty beat up, but loved it too. And, and then, you know, along comes gravel and, and Cyclocross, cyclocross came for me first before gravel, and it's a combination of the two. You know, it's, it's just, it's just great. It's, I, I, I love 'em both. And, and what's beautiful about gravel and about cx, especially when you get into the single speed, but we don't have to talk about that, is, um, You, uh, um, you're not, look, I don't mean to disparage mountain biking. I, I have a great, I have a niner. I love it. I use it all the time. But the bike does a bunch of the work, right? I mean, you just ba and when you're on a, a, a gravel bike and you do something technical, you, you really have to think it's a puzzle. And, and, and I love that. It's really, it's just really fun. So, [00:07:18]Craig Dalton (host): And so talking to you offline, you mentioned that you got drawn into the first B W R in 2014. Right? So just a few years after you started riding. [00:07:27]Denis Faye: So, um, so it happened on my birthday and, uh, another, I mean, I, it is just, Steve was just my cycling mentor, that's why he keeps coming up. Uh, he died of cancer a few years back, unfortunately. But, um, yeah, he was really pivotal to me and he taught me this thing called the Birthday Challenge, where every year on your birthday you do a hard thing and I've done. A lot of them. Um, probably my favorite was when I turned 45, uh, a group of friends and I rode from San Francisco to LA in two days, 450 miles. That was pretty cool. Um, but, uh, yeah, but, but for in 2014, I didn't have anything planned. And the Belgian waffle, which I'd always heard about it was legendary ride. Um, well, I'll go back. Can I talk a little bit about the history of the Belgian waffle? Is that cool? Okay. [00:08:17]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, if you like, I mean, I think it's, it's interesting and I think this will go into what you're probably about to describe, you know, Belgian waffle ride was this ride that Michael Marks started and had this sort of local allure of the Spring classic. You know, he designed it around a Belgian classic, and I remember meeting Michael in that timeframe, maybe after the first couple of years, and it was just kind of this thing where he was like, Oh, you should come do this ride. And it sounded like from, from an outsider, a Northern Californians perspective, it, it would had just sort of grown by word of mouth that this is, hey, this cool, interesting thing that's happening down in San Diego. And then, you know, as we think about it in recent years, it has become this, you know, behemoth on the calendar. But yeah, I'd love to get your perspective from back in those days. [00:09:05]Denis Faye: Well, I mean, it was the cool kids would always do this, right? I wasn't my, my wife was cool enough. My wife Marilyn's a. She was, she's been riding forever and, um, she doesn't like it when I talked about her, so I just got in trouble for saying that. But well, well, um, uh, cool kids here in Southern California would do this thing called the French Toast Ride. And, uh, M MX was, Michael Marx was one of 'em, and then he kind of wanted to kind of elevate it and bring it to the masses and, and add the Belgian nest to it. And so that's where the Belgian waffle right, came, came from. And it was pretty much just a. Gang of friends is she kind of thing for the first few. And I jumped in on the third one and it was already a, it was a big show by then. Um, yeah, so my friend Kevin and I did it. Uh, I bonked unbelievably badly. Unbelievably badly. Um, and then funny story, um, Finished and we, and there's a big feed and, and you know, my name suggests there's some frenchness in me. And, and, uh, I, uh, so there's, there were mussels, which a lot of Americans don't eat, but I, I love them and I'm just so excited to sit there and drink this, you know, it was made in a brewery there, uh, but Belgian beer and eat muscles, I was just so, so excited to do that. But, um, As I was waiting in line, there were these carrots, and so I ate a carrot and I was super hungry, so I ate it super fast. So I didn't chew very well and my body reacted and I, and I think what happened, right? Af so thi this is some advice. Here's an actual item for, actionable item for your, your, your, uh, listeners. Um, you have these two nervous systems. You have the sympathetic and the parasympathetic, and. You know, like you have your rest and digest one and your stress flight or flight one, and I was still in the fight and flight system, so di digestion was difficult. That's why after you do a really, really hard thing, it's a good idea to maybe like a, like a protein shake or something that's just easily digestible is, is, is a solid idea cuz it just kind of eases you back. Like basically shoving a carrot in your mouth hole. Doesn't work. And I just started barfing and, and, and just barfing. And I, and I had the whole presentation. I was, everyone's like, woo, bear, woo muscles, woo. Whatever they're eating. And I, I just had one of the garbage buckets and it just yacking the whole time. So that really inspired me. And it really, and I wasn't supposed to be a nutrition expert at the time, and it really, I'm not gonna make that mistake again. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna help others so that they don't make that mistake. [00:11:43]Craig Dalton (host): Love it. So you went back the next year on the, on the following year after that, did you, did you improve your nutritional performance and physical [00:11:52]Denis Faye: I did. I, I, um, I, well, I also, you know, in that first year it was, we didn't, back in my day, we didn't have gravel bikes. I, I was just a, it was a Fuji SST with gator skins on it. I mean, it was, I didn't even, those were cre questionable at the questionable tire choice, but they were tough. It's like, ah, that'll work. Um, and so I did get a better, I got a crux and that was a big game changer. Um, but also, yeah, I, I got my eating right, was very smart about it, and regimented and, you know, don't, knowing a lot of it's really eating even when you're not hungry. That's a big key to, um, And another, I, I mean, I eat, you know, prepare beforehand. Start eating for your race for, uh, yeah. You know, three or four days beforehand is when you're gonna start eating for your, your race or your ride. If it's, you're gonna go hard, right? And always eat for future. You always eat for you in an hour. That's crucial. You know, like how many times you've been riding with someone, you're like, you should eat. And they're like, I'm not hungry. Like, future you is gonna be hungry, you know? [00:12:58]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I think that's the thing that gets it. It's so easy to get drilled into you in the triathlon context because you're going to be doing something different. So believe me, I think when I first started training for triathlons, I went to a, a conversation with our, the team I was training with, and the, the coach was asking about, well, how do you, how do you eat when you're on the ride? And I'm like, well, I usually do. NACA loop, which is a local loop. You're outta San Francisco, maybe 70 miles from San Francisco. And I said, well, you know, I'd have a couple bottles of water and, and maybe one nutritional product. And he would just, he just lost his mind. He's like, for 70 miles, cuz you know a lot of that old cycling training, he just kind of went out and did it and you didn't think too much about it. But when you have to do something afterwards, you absolutely need to fuel up for that next event. But the truth is, even as a cyclist, as you just said, fueling for those moments an hour now from now, two hours from now, even if that's the moment when you're off the bike, is [00:14:01]Denis Faye: is. Well, you bring up a good point though about I do the same thing. I'll go out on a, I'll go do the donut loop, which is, you know, super long and I get home and I had like a, A cliff bar at some point, and my water bottle's half full. I'm like, that was, that was foolish. But you know, you, you just kind of adapt and you learn how to do it. And also if you're just going off for a mellow ride and you're not gonna get up into those higher zones, there's, you know, there I'm shrugging. I guess I shouldn't shrug be okay. I wish I could make a noise. [00:14:33]Craig Dalton (host): It doesn't translate well into the audio [00:14:35]Denis Faye: Lemme try that again. Uh, um, so, you know, if you're not gonna work that hard, you're not gonna. You're gonna be fine. You're probably not gonna have to eat that much. And so, you know, I, I do. Sometimes you see these, these people mostly guys out for their, you know, their 30, 40 mile ride where they're just kind of cruising along, but they're just feeding like crazy. And it's like, that's not, you're just eating sugar, you're just eating candy right now. You know, don't do that. [00:15:04]Craig Dalton (host): So stepping back, so you, you started your career as a journalist and then found your way to a company called Beachbody and ended up focused for many years. In the field of nutrition along the way, as you've just described, you discovered cycling the Belgian waffle ride, the cyclo cross scene there in Southern California. Let's talk about how it came to be writing this book, the B W R B W R guide to eating like a semi-pro. [00:15:33]Denis Faye: Well, um, Beachbody was a masterclass for me in nutrition, you know, out the gate. Even though I wasn't a registered dietician, I, I had the opportunity to work with them and with scientists, and again, with Steve, um, uh, to, to really learn by doing and seeing how people did and then learn. Um, and then also we, we, we'd put out these programs with these nutrition guides, and then we'd see firsthand, you know, working with test groups. And then after they came out, how. How the nutrition helped people. And I mean, it always helped people, but we were able to adjust and fine tune, you know, I got, I had, like, I, I got to be in this giant research study with like millions of people buying this stuff. Um, and you know, and have people working for me, dealing right with the customers so I could get that feedback and learn. And then by the time I really started getting serious on the bike, I had a really solid foundation of sports nutrition. So it was very easy for me to just, um, build on that to, to, to kind of include endurance athletes into that, into that fold, you know? Um, and, and that, that's just kind of, that's what came to it. And, uh, right after, you know, 20 years of beach pot, I decided to go do my own thing. And I, right now, I'm a nutrition, I'm a communications consultant. I help companies, um, Do their messaging and uh, um, M mx was just m mx in addition to being a cycling dude, is he, he's a marketing self, I dunno what it's called. He's a, you know, like start, he's an entrepreneur. That's the word I'm looking for. And so, you know, asker and he's like, well, you should, you know a bunch of stuff. You should write me a book now. I don't think, I don't think he thought I'd actually do it. Uh, I was like, oh, you know what? I do know about that stuff. So, um, kind of used my, my newsletter, uh, it's called New Personal Best Nutrition as a testing ground to write about different concepts and seeing what connected and what people were interested in, and then built the book around that. Um, and, and then really, you know, when you do, uh, you do a race like that three times in a row, you learn a lot about it. So I was able to kind of fold my own experiences. Into, to what's required, um, [00:18:01]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think that's really useful and as as we may have been speaking about it offline, I think it's just, it's great that these bodies of information are out there because I do think that you can make a plan that will forgive you for some of the easy unforced [00:18:18]Denis Faye:... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27132057

In the Dirt 35 06/06/2023

In the Dirt 35 This week, your hosts Craig Dalton and Randall Jacobs reconnect with the gravel cycling world and their personal lives, sharing insights and experiences from Sea Otter to UNBOUND. Dive into this episode and join the guys as they discuss the latest from Logos Components, Enduro Bearings, ENVE and a little bit of gravel beef. Links from Episode: (Code: 'Community500') Whitepaper Join Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week, I'm going to be joined by my co-host Randall Jacobs for a long overdue catch up. And an episode of in the dirt. We're going to jump into, what's been going on in the world of gravel cycling and in our own lives. With that said here's Randall. [00:00:44]Craig Dalton (host): Hey Randall, how you doing? [00:00:46]Randall R. Jacobs: Doing well. Good to see you, Craig. It's been a bit since [00:00:48]Craig Dalton (host): I know I feel like we keep just not finding time to do these catch up calls, so we've got like months of stuff to cover, but I think we'll keep it brief cuz I know we're both pretty busy today. [00:01:01]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, and I'll, I'll take responsibility for Ave for not being so available. Um, I've been building largely just like rebuilding a house. Uh, so that's, uh, a pretty big undertaking and, uh, having to learn building science and all these things myself along the way to make sure it's done right. So, uh, very joyful task, but also hasn't left a lot of bandwidth. [00:01:24]Craig Dalton (host): And for anybody catching the video, we're looking in the backdrop at some of Randall's cabin in Kingston, New York. [00:01:33]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, gutted the upstairs so that I could move into it while I renovate the rest of it. So definitely a labor of love, but uh, also very, uh, very all encompassing. [00:01:44]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. Well, it's exciting. I can't wait to be sort of part of the journey in the background as I see your property evolve, and I know how committed you are to that community. [00:01:53]Randall R. Jacobs: We'll have to have you out to ride, uh, once it's a little bit further along. I know that you sometimes make trips to New York and, uh, the riding here in the Kingston area and the broader Hudson Valley is, uh, fantastic. In fact, I did a ride last night with some folks, uh, along the Walkhill, uh, bike path up to the area around the Mohawk Preserve. It was a night ride. And we were up there, uh, on this big, uh, hilltop meadow at about 11 o'clock for the full moon, and it was absolutely fantastic. Riding the dark is delightful and just the area is beautiful. [00:02:28]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Writing in general sounds delightful and I have to be honest, it hasn't been something that I've been doing a ton of. Unfortunately, I've had, I feel like a string of. Setbacks this year. It's just been one of those years that as much as I've been eager to ride my bike, timing health and a bunch of other things haven't allowed me to do so. So I feel sort of a little bit anxious about where I'm at just cause I wanna be riding more. But uh, also trying to just give myself the grace to know that, you know, it's just not in the cards at the moment and it'll come back around for me. [00:03:04]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, I, I also have to confess on my end, this was this ride I just mentioned, with the exception of having taken my niece and nephews out a couple of times on several milers was my first real ride of the year. Uh, I've been so swept up in other things. Plus I had had, you know, some, some issues with like, pain in my hands and feet and so on that I had been dealing with it. I just hadn't been riding at all. And, uh, There's an ebb and flow in the relationship with the bike. That is okay, even if you have a podcast and have, have built a company in the industry and so on. Um, [00:03:38]Craig Dalton (host): was just gonna announce if we, [00:03:40]Randall R. Jacobs: the right thing. [00:03:41]Craig Dalton (host): I was just gonna ask if we fully discredited this podcast in the first five minutes. [00:03:47]Randall R. Jacobs: I mean, the, the, the bike for me was always a jumping off point and or an excuse for having interesting conversations about other topics. Anyone who's, uh, You know, enjoyed any of the episodes I've done has found that like, even if say we're nerding about bicycle technology, it's actually just a conversation about technology and entrepreneurship. Or if we're talking about sports psychology, it's actually just a conversation about the human experience. So I think, I think we are credible amongst the types of people who gravitate to this particular, uh, corner of the cycling media landscape, I suppose. [00:04:23]Craig Dalton (host): Fair enough. We did, however, in April visit the spectacle of all spectacles called Sea Otter, where we got to hang face-to-face at least for a day. I just did a day trip down there. But I know you spent the entire weekend down there. Any sort of thoughts from what you saw that will inform the listener for the year as the new trends or anything going on? [00:04:46]Randall R. Jacobs: Honestly, I didn't see a lot that excited me. Um, and you know, looking at the press coverage, none of, you know, there wasn't much out there that was found by others either. Um, the, we've talked about, you know, Sam's release of their transmission. So, um, there were a lot of conversations in the background about the implications of that for competition within the bike industry, both with, you know, people in the media and. At brands, uh, component brands and, and bike brands and so on. But otherwise, I mean, it was a great festival. The, the vibe was great. It was, uh, very well attended. Uh, lots of racers, lots of activities, lots of people out and about. Uh, so as far as that is concerned, it was a big success. But nothing major from a technology standpoint that I found or a trend standpoint. [00:05:36]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I wonder if someone who's sort of better at the history of the cycling industry than I would sort of point to other, other sort of moments in time, whether it's been with mountain biking or other sectors of the sport where you just sort of plateau, where you've, you've sort of, you've got to a point where a lot of the best ideas have been flushed out. Because I feel like if you're coming in to build a bike today, and I'll point to my episode with Envy, with their MOG gravel bike, it's just straight down the center. Like you can't point out anything wrong with that bike. It's gonna do everything great. It's got all the sort of modern, um, tire clearance features that we've been talking about for years, and now there's just sort this sort of. Mainline point where you can enter the, the, the, the bike gravel bike market and produce something that's really gonna do the job. [00:06:30]Randall R. Jacobs: If anything, I think that the, the trends that would, that was clearly in play is that gravel is now very mature. And you know, our first conversation when I was a guest on this podcast, It was, you know, I, I recall mentioning like gravel bikes are essentially the all-purpose bikes that we should have been making for normal people all along. And, uh, that's kind of played itself out. You know, there's quite a few people who have one bike for nearly everything and it's their gravel bike, and there are lots of gravel rides or gravel races. Um, I, uh, Sam, uh, Sam Jackson, my colleague at, at, uh, thesis and Logos and I were volunteering for, uh, enduros, uh, media ride. And, uh, that was also a mix of road and gravel and people were on gravel bikes with, you know, even if they had oversized road tires on some of them, in some of the cases. Uh, so I think the trend towards having bikes that are more versatile is, is the big thing. And, and gravel is no longer insurgent. Gravel is very much central in the industry, and if anything, road is more peripheral. [00:07:35]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, agreed. Like I look around Mill Valley on the weekends when I see packs and packs of riders riding on the road, and sometimes I do a double take because more often than not, I feel like half the kind of casual pelotons are gravel bikes with just narrower tires on them than they are road bikes these days, which. Obviously makes a ton of sense. From what, what we've been saying the last couple years on this podcast, you mentioned you were hanging out with the Enduro gang, and I know your wheels were being displayed at the booth. It sounds like after that conversation you had with their founder, Matt on the podcast last year, you've really developed a pretty deep relationship with that team. [00:08:14]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, so, you know, it's funny, like Matt and I had a delightful conversation that we've recorded and then we kept going for about an hour and a half after we finished recording. Just, uh, just nerding out about, uh, you know, different concepts that him and I have, have played with over the years. So, uh, I guess nothing that I can, I can reveal in a public forum, but that might bear some fruit in the future. Uh, and then sometime after I got, uh, a contact from, uh, Rick Sutton, who Rick Sutton for tho has been on the pod. Um, he, I think he was representing, uh, The handlebar company he was [00:08:52]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Coefficient. [00:08:53]Randall R. Jacobs: Yep. [00:08:54]Craig Dalton (host): The handlebar company. Yep. [00:08:55]Randall R. Jacobs: but Rick's also the founder of Sea Otter and, um, is now working with Enduro, helping with their, um, you know, marketing strategy and messaging and so on. And so he reached out and, uh, we, you know, set up a collaboration where, you know, we have a, a product that we think is based on this, kind of the same sorts of principles that. Particularly their XD 15 product is, is ceramic. Hybrid product is based on, which is having something that performs at a high level yes. But that is highly durable and serviceable. Uh, and so, so yeah, that's been a collaboration that has been an absolute delight. And um, you know, it's also been a joy to kind of work with that team. So spent a lot of time at Rick's house, uh, just outside of Sea Otter, uh, in Monterey, uh, uh, volunteering with the group rides and the other events that they were hosting there, uh, for their kind of, you know, media and press, uh, efforts and so on. [00:09:56]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. Nice. And so, I mean, are you using some of the products in your logos, components, wheels now? [00:10:03]Randall R. Jacobs: exclusively. And in fact, we've used them exclusively in our wheels from day one. Uh, so as soon as we started making our own hubs, we were doing Enduro bearings. Uh, so this is predates, uh, talking to Matt. I reached out to Matt because I liked his bearings, uh, and found out that actually he is a, a nerd, uh, a kindred spirit and his nerdy, [00:10:25]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. [00:10:26]Randall R. Jacobs: uh, by the way, that is an episode. If any, if any listeners haven't heard it, that I'd strongly recommend, uh, Matt is a. Is really just a, uh, a he delights in the engineering, but also the history of the industry and so on, and so as a deep amount of knowledge about the evolution of the bicycle and where technology seen in bike have played roles in other industries, particularly around Barings. Interestingly, [00:10:50]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, it was a super interesting episode and. Actually really cool to see Matt kind of get out there. I don't know whether it's the collaboration with Rick, but Enduro seems to be doing group rides. I know they did one up here in Marin out of Fairfax that I did. I was invited to one in Boulder, which sadly I could not attend, but just great to see Matt getting out there. As you said, he's been around the industry. The whole Enduro story is pretty interesting, and just the commitment to quality and the, the way they manufacture things, I think is worth knowing and worth listening to. And regardless of whether you buy their product or someone else's, I think if you're interested in, in the technology that goes behind Barings and what you should be thinking about, that's a great episode to get smart with. [00:11:35]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Um, there's also, they released at Sea Otter a white paper, which, um, I, I will grab so that we can put it in the show notes. Definitely worth a read. And what I love, uh, again, about Matt and, and their approach is just very straight shooting. Like, this is how it is, this is how our products perform. Um, this is, you know, this product that we have will perform at this level, this other product and how it compares in the ecosystem. Ver uh, Compared to, you know, verifiable test results, uh, that have, you know, clearly spelled out protocols and so on, and. You know, as an example, you know, we talk about this in the episode, uh, ceramic bearings are not something that you should really be buying for the performance improvements. The, the difference in drag is pretty trivial in the grand scheme. Um, uh, that really the benefit when you have something like, uh, an XD 15 ceramic hybrid is that they last much longer. They're basically bombproof and they provide a lifetime warranty. So that's a, a different, a different thing. Uh, so just like sh selling, like promoting things on their merits as opposed to on some, some hype to get people to part with their funds. [00:12:47]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's obviously an interesting journey for a lot of newer cyclists because it's easy to see and become aware of the things that have the hype around them. But I, I, I found, at least for my, myself and my own journey, sort of took a while as a mountain biker back in the day to just sort of go back to what works above and beyond anything else. I'm not gonna lie, like I had a bunch of no shade against Ringle from back in the day, but I had a bunch of purple anodized parts that I thought looked good. I don't think they were the best performing parts in the world. And eventually, you know, I just sort of went back to some stock stuff and and focused on things that would really improve the quality of my experience, like upgrading wheels, for example. [00:13:30]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Well, and it's really hard to know, especially, especially as somebody who's just entering the sport, but honestly, even as someone who's been in the industry for some time, like it took me years to really get to the bottom of what was real and, and what was, you know, marketing Huey. Um, and that came through talking with the engineers behind it and like hearing from them, oh yeah, this is something that our marketers wanted us to do and we actually despise it. Um, or this is something the bean counters wanted us to do and we, and we wish we didn't have to. Um, but that's information that you only get if you're talking to say, like the head of QC at some large brand or, you know, the lead engineer or something like this. Uh, which is what we get to do here sometimes, which is great. [00:14:17]Craig Dalton (host): That said, if putting an anodized piece of part on your bike makes you happy, makes you smile, makes you ride more, more, go ahead and do it. I've certainly got my, my fair share of colorful parts on my new bike, so happy to, uh, happy to make people smile when I roll. Roll by. [00:14:34]Randall R. Jacobs: Oh yeah. I think, I think the moral there is not to is, is not to forego style. It's just to don't, don't compromise on the, uh, the fundamental function of the, of the components when adding that style elements. [00:14:47]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, hey, I know you've been busy with Logos Wheels. Have you guys, I think you've added another wheel or two to the lineup. Am I correct in that? [00:14:59]Randall R. Jacobs: So we hinted, uh, uh, we, we hinted this in our newsletter. Uh, we'll have another one going out actually today as of the, this, uh, publication. Um, but we have three more that we're about to release. Uh, one is a, uh, an Arrow road model, uh, 50 deep, 21 internal, 30 external. A cross-country model, which is 28 internal, and then a, uh, Enduro, uh, an all Mountain Enduro version of our current, uh, Uday wheel, uh, which is a 31 internal. And all of those use the same kind of principles and components. Just, you know, broadening the line to, you know, hit, hit more the, uh, the sub niches for each, you know, product category. [00:15:45]Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha and all. Were those in DU bearings you mentioned earlier? [00:15:49]Randall R. Jacobs: All of those Enduro bearings. Uh, we are planning on releasing a, an XD 15 line later in the year. Uh, right now it's all their, um, uh, their, uh, stainless steel bearings. [00:16:01]Craig Dalton (host): Okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Well, we won't drill too much into those new wheels just simply cuz they're a little bit outside of the gravel market, but you've still got your 700 C gravel wheel and a six 50 B gravel wheel. [00:16:13]Randall R. Jacobs: Yes. And, uh, those have been doing really well and we've been building out our dealer program for that too, which has been a lot of fun. Actually, I, I plan on bringing on some dealers to talk about, you know, the nature of running a bike shop at some point. Cause it's just been a, an absolute delight to, to connect with local businesses. [00:16:30]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I mean I think that's just sort of, I think running a bike shop, there's never a dull moment. Right. I know. I think we were gathering from a lot of, a lot of partners in the industry at Sea Otter that there's just been a glut of inventory [00:16:45]Randall R. Jacobs: Mm-hmm. [00:16:46]Craig Dalton (host): market and that's kind of jamming a lot of, a lot of shops up in some interesting ways. [00:16:51]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. And for those curious, um, so I mean, we all saw the shortages that happened during covid, um, along with the boom and demand. Um, so in boom and quantity demanded. So shifting out the demand curve, um, and. As a consequence, a lot of shops essentially ordered whatever they could from wherever they could and, uh, including, you know, Ordering the same thing from multiple places. And these agreements, uh, were not agreements that could be canceled. These, these, uh, pos And so everything came, and everything came all at once at the end of last season, which is when it's. You know, when things are generally quieter at the shop. So this just this glut of inventory that's kind of working its way through the system. Um, and, you know, that's still ongoing for some shops. Uh, but for the most part, the shops I've been talking to have been able to, to, you know, navigate it. Uh, and are, are still, you know, doing just fine. [00:17:51]Craig Dalton (host): I feel like this might finally break the sort of product year introduction life cycle that's been starting to break, and maybe less so for components, but I think more so maybe for smaller frame builders and brands that can just kind of bring bikes into the world when it's an opportune time to have a conversation about them versus. These seasonal experiences we used to have in the bike industry. [00:18:15]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and certainly, um, I mean, there have been complaints about model years on bicycles from shops for, you know, probably since, since there were bike shops and brands were doing this as a way... /episode/index/show/thegravelride/id/27061632

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

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