The Mindful Marketer

Welcome to The Mindful Marketer Podcast with your host, Lisa Nirell. This is where you’ll discover marketing leadership ideas to help you go further, faster and create healthier, more sustainable organizations. If you like our show and want to know more, visit lisanirell.com. And please be a mindful marketer by posting a review on iTunes.

"Burnout to Balance: Prioritize and Thrive in '25" 02/07/2025

"Avoid These Costly Transformation Traps in 2025" 10/06/2024

"Fight Fake News, Protect Your Brand: Lessons from an AI Experiment" with Jack Brewster (#86) 07/13/2024

"Fight Fake News, Protect Your Brand: Lessons from an AI Experiment" with Jack Brewster (#86) "Fight Fake News, Protect Your Brand: Lessons from an AI Experiment" with Jack Brewster (#86) It can cost bad actors less than $150 to create a fake (or "pink slime") news site and mess with your company’s brand. We’re deep into the USA election season, and we’re watching this train wreck unfold. Don’t let misinformation ruin your hard-earned reputation. Listen to this episode, where we welcome Jack Brewster of NewsGuard. They are committed to providing transparent tools to counter fake news for marketers, leaders, and democracies. Summary: Here's what you can do to protect your brand: 1. Practice “pre-bunking” across the company. Jack recommends that "readers should be informed about sources that often share misinformation so they can critically evaluate the information they encounter." 2. Before you take the content seriously, copy the story into Google. See the source. Are they a Tier 1, credible site? 3. Embrace a healthy media diet. Cut your social media consumption by just five minutes a day (please avoid using Facebook, Instagram, and X as your "go-to" news feeds). Divert that energy to Tier 1 sources. 4. Refine your critical thinking skills. A lot of my CEO and CMO clients have young, inexperienced team members running their content and communications strategies. It’s incumbent on their leaders to help them build critical thinking and strategic muscles. Invest in courses, such as "Developing Critical Thinking Skills" by my fellow LinkedIn Learning instructor Becki Salzman. 5. When using generative AI tools to brainstorm or summarize, ask the tool for exact sources and the URL to that source. Then test that URL. Some will not work! Show Links: Follow Jack Brewster’s work, and subscribe to NewsGuard’s free “Reality Check” e-news: Facing company or career transition? Join us October 17-20 for “The Midlife Innovator” Retreat at MEA Santa Fe, New Mexico (USA). Details and registration: Want to overcome career isolation and propel growth? Apply to the Marketing Growth Leaders peer community: Don’t miss another episode. Register for our private “know ahead” list at . Like what you heard? Please leave us an Apple Podcast review. Spread the love! Meanwhile, we’re sending love to our production team: Alexander Connolly,   and . /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/32122482

Full Time vs. Fractional? The CMO Career Debate 05/20/2024

Full Time vs. Fractional? The CMO Career Debate Full Time vs. Fractional? The CMO Career Debate Guests: Scott Kabat, CEO, 621 Consulting and Michael Taylor, CEO, SimpleMind Inc. SUMMARY: It’s our job as leaders to present cost-effective and strategic alternatives to old traditional CMO roles and responsibilities. Why now? Because generative AI is rapidly streamlining how we build content, go to market, engage with customers, and design our demand gen strategies. These are common requirements to be a “full stack” CMO. Here’s the challenge. Thanks to AI, information has become commoditized, and knowledge (skills) are table stakes. On the other hand, wisdom, the pinnacle of human understanding, comes from the marriage of knowledge and experience. In the future, boards and CEOs will need more wisdom than information. And a fractional CMO just might be the wisdom well you need as you face this stage of growth. If you are curious about hiring a fractional CMO, or you are a CMO considering a fractional career path, listen to this show. We welcomed Scott Kabat, CEO of 621 Consulting in San Francisco. He leads a team of fractional CMOs and hands-on marketing operators. A recovering CMO himself, Scott has worked with brands such as Apple, Lyft, and Target. Our other panelist – a returning favorite and BFF-- is Michael Taylor, founder of Simple Mind Inc. He works with top firms such as AARP, IHG, and Great Dane and has been a fractional CMO, creative director, and startup founder and builder of a top digital agency. Listen and learn: Why fractional CMOs are currently in high demand The distinctions between fractional and interim CMOs The reasons why CEOs hire fractional CMOs. Key questions you need to ask to ensure success and client alignment. A 10-point checklist for CEOs to assess fractional CMO needs. (see show link). Show Links: “The Midlife Innovator” Retreat, October 17-20, 2024, at MEA Santa Fe, New Mexico (USA). Details and registration: Scott Kabat: . “Is Hiring a Fractional CMO Right for You?” Checklist: Want to overcome career isolation and propel growth? Apply to the Marketing Growth Leaders peer community: Want to build your fractional CMO role and brand? These are some favorite marketing and business development resources from Alan Weiss: Don’t miss another episode. Register for our private “know ahead” list at . Like what you heard? Please leave us an Apple Podcast review. We love our listeners! /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/31391222

“Four Big Customer Growth Unlocks” with HomeServe USA’s CMO, Andy Yost 03/25/2024

How Marketers Rise Together Through Community 03/04/2024

"Smart Recruiting Strategies in an AI Powered World” with CoStar Group’s Kirstine Wilson 02/14/2024

"Smart Recruiting Strategies in an AI Powered World” with CoStar Group’s Kirstine Wilson “Smart Recruiting Strategies in an AI Powered World” with CoStar Group’s Kirstine Wilson that 85% of 1,000 U.S. professionals surveyed are thinking about changing jobs this year. This represents an 18-point surge from 2023. Why do this report (and episode) matter? Because promotions and job searches have become even more competitive. With AI vying for certain jobs, we need to be more articulate, strategic, and connected than ever. A high-quality network gets you interviews, not an assembly line of AI-generated cover letters. Episode 81 show highlights include: New ways that CoStar is hiring creative talent (and you can, too). Messaging and outreach methods that help you get attention. Why AI cover letters fail to captivate recruiters. How to request strategic introductions—and skip the resume blasting. The pros and cons of the “executive profile on a page.” We went live in Washington, DC with CoStar Group, Inc.’s VP of Talent Acquisition, Kirstine Wilson. In her role as lead recruiter, Kirstine has spearheaded more than 3,000 hires for this public global company with a current market cap of $33.3B. During this episode, we hope you discover a new idea to land that important interview! Join our 2024 “know ahead” show and retreat list now—register at . Thank you for being a loyal listener. Join us for the next show on March 1 with return guest, seven-time leadership author Sally Helgesen. March is book giveaway month! A hearty THANK YOU to our superstar production team: Alex Connolly, and . Thanks to CoStar Group for sponsoring this show. SHOW BONUSES and LINKS: Wall Street Journal article on the surge in job seekers: CMOs Leading Innovation Conference (CLIC ’24) at MEA Santa Fe this October with Chip Conley – 6-minute video here: Don’t miss another episode. Register for our private “know ahead” list at . /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/29944248

Reflect and Refresh: Six Mindful Questions for 2024 01/08/2024

"Ring in the New: 2024 Innovation Essentials for CMOs” 12/11/2023

How Marketing Can Be an Ally for Truth” with Eric Schurenberg 10/10/2023

How Marketing Can Be an Ally for Truth” with Eric Schurenberg How Marketing Can Be an Ally for Truth” with Eric Schurenberg In our previous episode 76 with Charlene Li, we discussed how intentional marketing leaders share three habits: courage, curiosity, and discipline. Those qualities are needed more than ever: across every institution, facts are under attack. Some media and tech leaders stoke polarization. AI hallucination and nefarious bots are not the only sources. A zealous quest for market dominance and ad revenues also squanders trust. What can we do to earn it back to preserve our brand, cultivate customer trust, and restore civil discourse? Former Inc. and FastCompany CEO Eric Schurenberg joined Lisa in the studio for this important conversation. He currently leads the Alliance for Trust in Media. Episode 77 is packed with practical strategies to improve your search for the truth and cultivate wisdom, including: How to apply the Wisdom Pyramid in your daily decisions. (credit to Chip Conley from Episode 67) The three questions every leader needs to ask to verify information: Is this designed to trigger an emotional response? How likely could this be true? What if I pause before sharing it? The danger of “talking your book” – tooting a customer’s or partner’s horn without fully disclosing the nature of your relationship. (some analysts are shameless about this). How to design your news feed wisely, and Eric’s daily “truth training” habits. BONUS: fun pilot stories from Eric and Lisa (31:20). A hearty THANK YOU to our superstar production team: Alex Connolly, and . This was made possible through the support of - CEO of The Voice + AI conference. SHOW BONUSES: CMOs Leading Innovation Conference (CLIC ’23) – details and registration here: “The OnRamp to Market Leadership”Webinar – contains slides and more insights on setting AI priorities. Click here: Prefer the show video? Here is the replay: Listen to Eric’s “In Reality” podcast: Don’t miss another episode. Register for our private “know ahead” list at . /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/28272734

Generative AI: What Intentional CMOs Need to Know with Charlene Li 09/08/2023

Episode 75: “EX and CX: The Marketer’s Magic Formula” with Tiffani Bova 08/07/2023

Episode 75: “EX and CX: The Marketer’s Magic Formula” with Tiffani Bova Episode 75: “EX and CX: The Marketer’s Magic Formula” with Tiffani Bova “The fastest way to get customers to love your brand is to get employees to love their job." In this episode, you will find out why old beliefs that “the customer is number one” are no longer true—nor sustainable. We welcomed Salesforce’s Chief Growth Evangelist, Tiffani Bova, to the studio. Her deep research of over 4,000 executives forms a strong foundation for this session, and her newest book. Show highlights include: What EX means? “a method to design and deliver simple and personalized employee experiences that feel unique to our company-- in an effort to drive better business outcomes.” The distinction between HR and EX – and why EX is NOT job #1 of your HR team. The smart move behind “One Stupid Thing:” How a Vancouver-based unicorn CEO drove higher valuation and team engagement scores. Simple strategies to overcome low technology adoption rates (hovering 24%) Tiffani’s favorite metrics to align EX and CX To celebrate our 75th show, we gave away copies of her newest book,” The Experience Mindset." Congratulations to our winners - Kristin Mitra and David Lopez. Special thanks to our superstar production team: Alex Connolly, Bill Connolly, Glen Macdonell, and Marisa Cali. LIKE OUR SHOW? Please leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcast. We love our loyal listeners! P.S. Don’t miss a future show – register for our private “know ahead” list at SHOW NOTES AND BONUSES: CMOs Leading Innovation Conference (CLIC ’23) – our 7th cohort gathers Nov. 2-3 in Nashville, TN USA. Details/registration here: HBR article: This includes key insights on the revenue upside potential from aligning EX and CX initiatives: LinkedIn Live Replay with Tiffani & Lisa (36 minutes): The Experience Mindset order link: Episode 76: “Ask Me Anything!” Send your customer, career, or marketing strategy questions to with “AMA September 1 question” in the Subject line. We will send you the invitation link (free). /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/27683991

Breakdown to Breakthrough: A Conscious Leader's Guide (and Book Giveaway) 07/11/2023

Episode 73: What’s Your Innovation Melody? 06/06/2023

From Global to Local : The Art of Listening (Episode 72) 05/13/2023

“Brand ROI for Marketing Skeptics” with Katie Hollar and Michael Oliver 04/18/2023

Customers, Cookies, and Content: A President’s Perspective 03/15/2023

Customers, Cookies, and Content: A President’s Perspective Customers, Cookies, and Content: A President’s Perspective featuring Jascha Kaykas-Wolff March 10, 2023 The rapid decline of third-party cookies has turned a CMO’s growth playbook upside down. And building trust has never been more challenging--especially in the United States. A asked 92,000 people whether they trust the news media in their country. The highest rated country was Finland. The U.S. came in dead last, at 29%. How much complexity are we facing globally with customer privacy? (hint: more than ever!) How can our messages build trust in this daunting digital desert? Why should CMOs care about customer data platforms (CDPs)? Where’s the balance between personalization and privacy? In this show, you will hear how iconic tech CMO-turned-President, Jascha Kaykas-Wolff, has built agile teams that cultivate trust and drive healthy growth. He will share how transparent privacy policies, cookies, and content can work in harmony. Some takeaways: Strategic leaders take responsibility for their customers’ experience—or customers will leave. This starts with being clear on the value exchange between our company and those customers. That will ensure that your first party data strategy endures. Commit to building a solid customer data platform strategy before implementing a customer data platform. Here is a free, helpful white paper from Lytics. Gartner predicts that 75% of the world’s population will be under privacy regulations by December 2023. Mindful marketers need to work closely with their legal, data science, and content teams to stay abreast of these privacy demands. for the ZDNet story (3-minute read) Avoid “irrational AI exuberance.” Many of us are rushing to use generative AI without establishing ethical and contextual guardrails. Jascha and I addressed the major reputational and ethical risks associated with this approach. Instead, ask your leaders “Are we going to build use cases right now, or am I first going to explore the implications of bias, context, and structure?” Before you fully take advantage of machine learning and generative AI (e.g., ChatGPT), find a way to create and publish organization guardrails. Leverage your data science team to a) acknowledge that bias exists within the tools and b) remove bias daily. Here’s how Jascha’ s team addresses this ethical challenge: He and his team practice “intentional de-biasing.” They make best efforts to remove biases in their toolset. Jascha believes “this discussion needs to happen in scrum meetings, board discussions, and leadership meetings. It’s critical to remove biases as soon as we find them.” P.S. Before you go: 1. Don’t miss a future episode –the first Friday of each month, 1:30-2:05 pm ET. Join our “know ahead” list at themindfulmarketer.com. 2. Got an idea for a future show or guest? Drop me a note: with “Future Show Idea” in the Subject line. /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/26233719

EPISODE 69: The Values Based Economy: From Awareness to Action with David Allison 02/08/2023

EPISODE 69: The Values Based Economy: From Awareness to Action with David Allison [REPLAY: The Mindful Marketer #LinkedIn Live featuring David Allison – Episode 69] What is values-based marketing and why does it matter? In our community, CEOs and CMOs are reporting LONGER sales cycles, ineffective messaging, and customer churn. Based on the ValueGraphics team’s assessment of over 750,000 surveys globally, we have learned that demographics and psychographics are ineffective at knowing what your customers want. (10% or less effective, to be exact). They do not help you uncover what your audience values, and they fall short of predicting how your audience will behave. In this dynamic conversation with customer research pioneer, David Allison, you will hear highlights from his just-released book, “The Death of Demographics.” In addition, you’ll hear: The limitations of traditional demographics research. The power of the 15-point archetype quiz—and how to use it. Three insightful questions you can ask your customers to discover their values. A 45-day action plan to turn your audience insights into marketing actions. You’ll love the healthy banter and audience questions in this episode. Enjoy part 2 of Season 1, where we explore the new rules of content strategy. Check out these show notes, compliments of ChatGPT and David’s sense of humor: From David: “Further to our conversation right now, I asked chat GPT to do this: Write three short stories about mindfulness in marketing. In one of them mention Lisa Nirell, host of The Mindful Marketer. In one of them mention David Allison, founder of Valuegraphics. And in one of them, mention another famous figure who is a rethinking marketing in a more mindful way. And in less than a minute it gave me this: Lisa Nirell, host of ‘The Mindful Marketer,’ shares her experience of using mindfulness in marketing. She explains how being present and aware in each moment helped her to make better decisions and connect with her audience in a more meaningful way. Nirell emphasizes that mindfulness allows marketers to approach their work with intention and purpose, leading to more effective and impactful campaigns. David Allison, founder of ValueGraphics, rethinks the role of mindfulness in marketing by focusing on the values of the target audience. According to Allison, marketers who understand their audience’s values can craft more meaningful and relevant messaging that resonates with them. He believes that mindfulness in marketing is about being present and aware of the values and motivations of your target audience, allowing you to create campaigns that are truly impactful. Another famous figure who is rethinking marketing in a more mindful way is Simon Sinek, author of "Start with Why." Sinek argues that the most successful brands and organizations are those that have a clear sense of purpose and values. He believes that marketers should focus on inspiring and empowering their audience, rather than simply trying to sell them a product. Sinek’s approach to marketing emphasizes the importance of creating meaningful connections and building trust with your audience, through mindfulness and purpose-driven campaigns. Now for the serious announcements: Don’t miss a future show – we livestream on YouTube and LinkedIn on the first Friday of each month. Join our “know ahead” list at themindfulmarketer.com. Got an idea for a future show or guest? Drop me a note: with “Future Show Idea for The Mindful Marketer” in the Subject line. /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/25865175

The NEW Rules of Content and Thought Leadership With Ginger Conlon – Episode 68 01/10/2023

The NEW Rules of Content and Thought Leadership With Ginger Conlon – Episode 68 Episode 68 kicks off Season 1 of The Mindful Marketer podcast, where we explore content strategy in 2023. Why should this topic matter to you?ChatGPT, tougher privacy rules, and a growing demand for differentiation can decimate well intended thought leadership and content strategies. Furthermore, Layoffs.fyi just reported that the number of tech layoffs grew 10x between 2021-2022. That means you will find fewer job opportunities than in 2021. To thrive, you need to be a thought leader in your market to stand out. Seasoned editor and marketer, Ginger Conlon, joined me for this lively show. Here’s what you will hear: How to distinguish between content strategy and thought leadership The pros and cons of TikTok Concrete ways to use ChatGPT (and AI in general) in your business How to avoid making ChatGPT mistakes – and the most common Measuring ROI for your content and thought leadership efforts Ginger is the thought leadership Director at Genesys, a 6000-person cloud-based customer support tech company. She’s also the co-host of the "Tech Talks in 20" podcast. Like me, she is also a fitness fanatic who loves creating valuable audience content. Check out these links and show notes from this episode: LINKS Content marketing leaders to watch CMI 2022 winners: Hubspot’s article, 20 standout content marketing examples: TikTok trouble? Handy quote from Scott Galloway’s January Prof G podcast: “TikTok is the ultimate propaganda tool…two-thirds of all millennials would turn off ALL cable and social media in favor of TikTok.” Their parent, Byte Dance, is on the path to a $1T valuation. TikTok is cleaning Google’s, Meta’s, and Amazon’s ad clock (and grabbing ad budget chunks). for the Wall Street Journal analysis (free). CXL blog on TikTok marketing: TikTok for Business data sheet on consumer purchasing: AI & ChatGPT “20 uses for ChatGPT”article: CNET article on ChatGPT: Don’t miss a future show – we livestream on YouTube and LinkedIn on the first Friday of each month. Join our “know ahead” list at . Got an idea for a future show or guest? Drop me a note: with “Future Show Guest for The Mindful Marketer” in the Subject line. /episode/index/show/themindfulmarketer/id/25564929