One-Size Doesn't Fit All: Variability in Neurodivergent Brains
Release Date: 04/04/2025
One-Size Doesn't Fit All: Variability in Neurodivergent Brains
Neurodiversity Podcast
Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Barbara Pape, Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project, about the concept of learner variability. The conversation touches on the importance of recognizing each student's unique strengths and challenges. They explore how educators can support neurodivergent learners through personalized instruction, they cover the role of technology in education, and talk about the need for a sense of belonging in the classroom. The discussion also touches on the barriers educators face in addressing learner variability and the evolution of educational policy to better...
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The Double Empathy Problem in the Classroom
Neurodiversity Podcast
On episode 264, we’re sharing our sister podcast’s conversation about the double empathy problem. In Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools, Emily Kircher-Morris and Amanda Morin explore a concept that challenges the assumption that neurodivergent individuals lack empathy, and instead highlights how misunderstandings happen between different neurotypes. They share personal stories, real-world classroom scenarios, and strategies to help educators bridge the communication gap with their neurodivergent students. TAKEAWAYS The double empathy problem—what it is and why it matters in...
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Neurodiversity Podcast
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Neurodiversity Podcast
Today Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Leah Kuypers, developer of the Zones of Regulation framework, to discuss self-regulation skills. They talk about the importance of emotional awareness, the practical applications of the framework in educational settings, and how it provides a common language for expressing feelings. Leah shares insights from her experience as an occupational therapist and educator, including the impact of the framework on students' ability to communicate their emotions and navigate their environments effectively. They discuss the need to move away from labeling emotions as...
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Neurodiversity Podcast
Today Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Gestalt language processing expert Ali Battye about the nuts and bolts of Gestalt, and why it's useful and important in understanding and supporting neurodivergent communicators. They talk about the barriers faced by Gestalt language processors, the role of augmentative and alternative communication (AAC), and the need for a strengths-based approach in communication. There are some common misconceptions about Gestalt language processing, and they explain and dispel them in this conversation. TAKEAWAYS Echolalia has become a helpful part of the learning...
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The Barrier-Breaking Evolution of Whole Body Regulation
Neurodiversity Podcast
Today we're discussing the concept of whole body listening, and its evolution to whole body regulation. Elizabeth Sautter joins Emily Kircher-Morris to talk about that evolution, and what it means to neurodivergent people and those who support them. They discuss emotional regulation and co-regulation, the role of educators and parents in modeling emotional awareness, and the impact of shame on neurodivergent learners. Also, the complexities of vulnerability, and the significant difference between calling someone out, and calling them in. TAKEAWAYS The shift from whole body listening to whole...
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Dyscalculia & Math: A Teacher's and Parent's Guide
Neurodiversity Podcast
On this episode, Emily Kircher-Morris and Dr. Daniel Ansari discuss the complexities of math education, including the anxiety it can cause in students, the challenges of teaching methods, and the importance of understanding learning difficulties like dyscalculia. They talk about the importance of explicit instruction in math, the role of neuroscience in understanding how children learn math, and the significance of working memory and attention in math learning. Educators and parents will also get suggestions for practical strategies that will help them support students struggling with math....
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Neurodiversity Podcast
Effective teaching involves more than just what happens formally in the classroom, and on this episode, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes educator and author Adam Meyersieck to talk about it. They discuss the need for engaging teaching methods that connect with students emotionally and socially. They discuss collaboration between parents and educators to support neurodivergent learners, and the significance of strengths-based approaches in teaching. They cover sustainability of the teaching profession, the use of multiple communication modalities, and managing visual clutter to enhance learning...
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Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria with Dr. Bill Dodson (Part 2)
Neurodiversity Podcast
In the second of our powerful two-part conversation, Emily Kircher-Morris and Dr. William Dodson discuss the complexities of ADHD, emotional dysregulation and its subset, and Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD). He explains how RSD can manifest in ADHDers, the impact of childhood experiences, and the importance of understanding and treating these conditions. There is a need for updated diagnostic criteria and effective treatment strategies, including medication and supportive environments. They dig into the complexities of ADHD, including management strategies, and the importance of...
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Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria with Dr. Bill Dodson (Part 1)
Neurodiversity Podcast
In part one of a two-part conversation, Emily Kircher-Morris and Dr. William Dodson discuss the complexities of ADHD, emotional dysregulation and its subset, and Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD). He explains how RSD can manifest in ADHDers, the impact of childhood experiences, and the importance of understanding and treating these conditions. There is a need for updated diagnostic criteria and effective treatment strategies, including medication and supportive environments. They dig into the complexities of ADHD, including management strategies, and the importance of understanding the...
info_outlineEmily Kircher-Morris talks with Barbara Pape, Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project, about the concept of learner variability. The conversation touches on the importance of recognizing each student's unique strengths and challenges. They explore how educators can support neurodivergent learners through personalized instruction, they cover the role of technology in education, and talk about the need for a sense of belonging in the classroom. The discussion also touches on the barriers educators face in addressing learner variability and the evolution of educational policy to better support diverse learners.
TAKEAWAYS
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Learner variability is the recognition that each student has unique strengths and challenges.
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Teaching to the middle does not effectively reach any student.
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Understanding learner variability allows educators to see design challenges rather than student problems.
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The Learner Variability Navigator is a tool for educators to understand and support diverse learners.
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Creating a sense of belonging is crucial for student engagement and success.
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Students should have agency in how their accommodations are presented to peers.
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Belonging in the classroom requires a whole child approach.
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Educational policy must evolve to provide adequate support for neurodivergent learners.
Barbara Pape is the Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project at Digital Promise, where she led a national survey on learner variability, edtech, and teacher practice, authored the defining paper on learner variability, and co-developed the IEP Project, which emphasizes strength-based, whole-child approaches to writing IEPs. She also hosts a monthly edWeb webinar series and previously served as executive producer of the award-winning Teaching & Learning conference for the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards. Her background includes roles in public policy, having worked on former U.S. Senator Paul Simon’s Senate and Presidential campaign, as well as in the U.S. Senate on the Education and Labor Committee.
Barbara has contributed to numerous publications and was the editor and publisher of the first electronically delivered education newsletter, The Daily Report Card. She serves on the boards of Benetech and The Riley Project and is involved in multiple education and learner variability working groups. Previously, she was an advisor for the Kennedy Center’s Intersection of the Arts and Special Education and a strategic planning committee member for Montgomery County Public Schools. She is currently pursuing a PhD at University College London, holds an EdM in reading and literacy from Harvard University’s Graduate School of Education, and began her career as a middle school language arts teacher.
BACKGROUND READING
Facebook, Twitter/X, LinkedIn, YouTube, The Learner Variability Project, The Learner Variability Navigator
The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com