EP 239 Beyond the Logo: Branding That Sells Retreats with Kara Hollinger

Your brand is more than a logo—it's the energy, clarity, and trust that sells out your retreats before you even open registration.

In this episode, Shannon sits down with Kara Hollinger, founder and creative director of Made Outside, to explore how powerful branding and a cohesive online presence directly influence retreat success.

They dig into:

• Why authenticity is your brand’s biggest asset
• How storytelling builds trust and drives bookings
• Common branding mistakes retreat leaders make
• Aligning your website, social media, and messaging to serve your ideal client
• How to communicate your value so people are ready to buy

Kara also shares a 20% discount on branding packages exclusively for podcast listeners—don’t

Connect with Kara: www.madeoutside.com
Talk about this podcast and get 20% off

 

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• Apply to be a guest on our show

 

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

 

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Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. And today I've got an amazing guest on the show that I am so excited to dig into our topic today because I feel like if it wasn't already so very important, it's becoming more and more important every day in the business world that we live in. So welcome, Kara to the show.

Kara 00:00:46  Thank you for having me, Shannon. Excited to be here.

Shannon 00:00:49  I'm so excited you're here. So Kara Hollinger is on the show. And do you just want to take a moment to tell us, like, who you are? What brought you here? Like, talk to us about who you are.

Kara 00:00:59  Definitely. My background is in brand development and design as well as strategy, and I started Made outside. I'm the founder and we specialize in building brands with authenticity, transparency and trust so that the consumer will lean into that purpose and story and then choose you over another competitor. So in most cases, that level of authenticity and storytelling is what drives a consumer into the purchasing ability. And so through design and award winning design, I was able to actually take my intuition and my understanding of marketability and then design and merge that with design, which has been a really great outcome for our clients. And I'm a big supporter of wellness and retreats and leadership. And I think that combining brand purpose into, you know, whether it's a retreat or a leader or even a brand is the key to success in today's market, where it's very convoluted, it's hard to tell who's authentic or who isn't. And that's what we do for all of our clients. And we've had really great success.

Shannon 00:02:06  I love this. Okay, so I love this for so many reasons, but especially because just like you mentioned, like if you are not presenting yourself in an authentic but also appealing way specifically to your demographic, then you are missing the boat.

Shannon 00:02:24  And I know that a lot of things that you work on is brand strategy and social media presence, as well as website presence. And I think, I think it gets really underrated in the retreat world. I think people just put together a very, in my very humble opinion, a crappy landing page that has maybe a couple of pictures that do not look as good as they should look. and it's just, I mean, I see more and more of them and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, there's an investment that has to be made in this business if you are wanting to it to be a business. And everybody knows that I'm big on like I, I don't do retreats for a hobby. I don't teach people how to do retreats for hobby. I teach you to do it as a business. And part of business in this world is investing in your social media and your website presence and brand strategy. Because I feel like it's got to tell a story. All of this has to tell a story.

Kara 00:03:16  Definitely. And the world of templated websites and put something up with, you know, Squarespace or Wix. Those types of solutions do exist, and they can be successful, but only if they're brought into authenticity and something that's unique for you. Because if we all land on something that feels the same or doesn't feel authentic or is just another batch of stock photos, it's going to be really hard to get somebody to invest their time and money to stop what they're doing, fly and try. They're seeking something to go to a retreat they're seeking. And if you can't collectively tell them what they're going to get in a way that feels safe and authentic, then they're going to start to look elsewhere, or they're going to start to overthink the decision and then possibly not juju at all. So getting to the heart of what makes you different and why you started the retreat, or why this solution is going to be good for the person coming. That is the key to all of it. And you can do that.

Kara 00:04:10  So simply with just words and visuals, it doesn't have to be a whole big investment. It's really about how you tell that story and then making sure it doesn't look like everyone else that you're seeing out there.

Shannon 00:04:22  I couldn't agree more. So I the way I do my retreat bookings is probably a little different than some people. As far as they don't have to talk to me, they don't have to set an appointment with me. They don't have to be pre-screened by me. I just don't run those types of retreats. There are a there's a time and place for that. But I share that with you because people who don't know me at all are literally. I mean, I'll get on my my registration forms. Where did you find me? Google. So they're finding me and they're booking because of my landing page, because of my messaging, because of my image, because of the story, because of how I'm marketing them. And so that's the bulk of my registrations, or pretty close to 6,570%.

Shannon 00:05:00  The other 25 to 30% is coming from referral or repeat guest. Or they've been listening to me and following me a long time, whatever. But the bulk of my my retreats are registrations are coming because of how my messaging is reaching them and the way that it's presented. And so when I tell you this is so important, I mean, this is so important. And even if you are someone, a host who, you know, you want to interview them first, they have to apply, they have to whatever. It's still the same thing. They're not even going to fill up that form to set an appointment with you if your messaging doesn't resonate, if it looks like, you know, a junior high schooler, put the whole thing together. You know what I mean? And I see this a lot in the retreat space where it's like, I don't know why my retreats not filling. I'm like, well, we're just going to start here. There's probably a whole lot of other stuff going on.

Shannon 00:05:50  But also we're going to start right here. And I love that you talked about trust and authenticity Because I think you and I both know we live in the world now, where if we hear about a company or an organization or anybody we're going to give our money to, where's the first place we look? Nowadays it's social media. You know what I mean? Yes, it's their website, but we usually are on their website, and then we go find them on social media to really validate who they are. What are your thoughts on that.

Kara 00:06:17  100% and the consistency between both stops, as well as how you email or solicit, has to be consistent and equally as professional. So somebody reached out to me recently and I thought it was very engaging. But then I went and found them on social and it was filled with stuff that was not authentic. It was really sloppy and done by I, and I immediately bounced. And so that originality is as important and the sales not going to come through just your site.

Kara 00:06:45  It is through learning and engaging as well as social hearing, trust building and the social aspect has to reassure them that where they're coming, It's not just safe. Like, am I going to get hurt? But it's safe. Like I'm making the right investment. And is this what I'm looking for? Because when people are out there seeking these types of scenarios, they're actually looking to either feel better, find vision, reset, meet people. a lot of it's around feeling better, but it could be a series of just letting go. It could be. But if you don't show up and understand what you signed up for, or if what you see online is actually authentic to the experience you're going to get when you show up, it's that validation on social that actually confirms a sale. So 100%, and just so everybody knows, a brand is not a logo. A brand is how you show up as a company or as a person in every aspect the photography, your voice, your social, how you, send them the materials to get ready for the retreat, to how you answer the phone.

Kara 00:07:53  It's all important. And that brand as a whole needs to look and feel the same across all platforms. And if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be custom. With a big, huge website. It could be a simple website, but the visuals and the storytelling needs to be simple and consistent across all touchpoints.

Shannon 00:08:11  Oh, okay, now you're really talking my language because it's not just a one stop. It's not just the website, although that typically is. The starting point is sometimes it might be the social. That's the starting point, but they're quickly going to make their way to the website. They're going to make their way to both. Right. Period. It's 100%. So yeah. So there's multiple touch points. And then also the communication right away. Like if they make contact with you, what does that communication look like when they register. The whole process is part of your brand. And I'm so glad that you are clarifying that it's not a logo. I can't tell you how many times people get caught up in my in what my logo is.

Shannon 00:08:40  That's everything. Listen, it's a very small. Believe it or not, part of the picture, right?

Kara 00:08:45  It's like one pillar of your body, you know, it's like it's a small piece of the thing. And it's important that it resonates too. But people aren't going to hire you because of your logo. They're going to hire you because of how you feel. And if you have that element of attraction or law of attraction that bring you in, that is 100% aligned on every touchpoint. Because if it's really cool here, then they go somewhere else and they're getting a different experience. You automatically lost trust and that's why the consistency is key.

Shannon 00:09:14  Yeah I so agree. So I love this. So we're talking about that. Your website has a look and feel and verbiage and energy to it. So should your social media match. So should your emails show. So should all. Everything should match that look and feel and energy that you are trying to create. And I think sometimes we don't know what that even is or how it should look.

Shannon 00:09:37  Unless we work with someone like you or an organization that can help us see that. Because sometimes we just get caught up in the logo or, you know, whatever it is. And we're thinking, I'm going to just do this on Canva. I'm going to create a logo, pick a couple colors, and then I'm done.

Kara 00:09:53  Exactly. And I am a big believer in Canva and we use it. We personally don't use it. We set our clients up with Canva templates. Once we're done doing our job so that that consistency piece is key. And you have to think of it as, how you meet anybody. Like you're going to go and say, hi, my name is Karen. Wait outside. But that's not enough. Like, you need to speak of who you are and why you're different in order to get attention. And it's the same for your brand. So like, just because I people like my dress and I dress very simple today, but say that was a compliment. They're not going to hire me because of my dress, they're going to hire me because of the whole picture.

Kara 00:10:32  And that's why that logo is it's important that it doesn't, you know, it's legible, it's attractive. It doesn't feel dated, it doesn't feel too trendy. Like those are things that we need to look for for the logo. But that is like third of importance as to the whole picture. And that consistency and transparency is really reigning above the way the logo looks and what your color palette is. And I get asked a lot of times. Like we just see the logo on an updated color palette and I'm like, okay, but then you're going to need these things. And so we have to coach them on. When they put that new logo somewhere, it's not going to spike sales. It's not going to spike the call. What's going to spike that? Is that again I hear you I feel you I see you. That is the piece that is the component that you want to reach your consumers. And if you can figure out how to word that and how to make it feel like that through your brand, your sales will increase and you will get stickier.

Kara 00:11:27  And they not only will love it, but then they're going to come and they're going to get the experience. They expected it, and they're going to go home and tell the people, and then they're also going to share it on social. So that viral ness is important in that first step.

Shannon 00:11:39  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes. Okay, so I love this because a lot of retreat leaders don't know how to word it.

Shannon 00:12:25  They don't. They don't know how to position it. They're like, well, here's here's they hopefully know who they can serve, right? Who their ideal guest is. Hopefully they know that and they know the problem that they can solve or solve for that person, but then they don't know where to go from there. And is that something that you and your group does that they can help?

Kara 00:12:42  Conditioning is is everything, to be honest. and we really want that to be stable and established and and Attractive before the visuals ever get involved. because that like, you need to think of not what you like, not your personal style and your personal preference. You need to think of what the person you're wanting to show up needs and what they need to see and feel. And again, you got to know the emotion. Every retreats different. Some are more fitness, some are more wellness, some are more mental health, some are more silent. You know, relaxation. But what are what is their pain point? And then the moment you can position yourself to build trust and authenticity around their pain point, that's the position is like what you do, how you do it and why you're different.

Kara 00:13:29  And then if you can say that in a way that's compelling and interesting and attractive, it's, it's a it's a home run, because then all of the visuals back that up. And so then that's why the logo is, is like a piece of it. It's all the messaging and all the little graphics and all the things that really instill and insinuate what it is that makes you different is how that brand look and feel. And consistency starts to build. Because if you just start creating pretty things, you're going to, again, blend in, because there's a lot of pretty things out there. But what you need to do is, is match that message with how it's going to feel. And then the visuals come into play. And I mean, I'm an award winning designer. So for years I thought design was everything. And then as I started to own my own businesses and help thousands of businesses, I realized the positioning and the strategy behind how you're going out and getting the business is the success component.

Kara 00:14:21  And then the visuals, I mean, it's it's really amazing once you have that positioning, right, how far the visuals take off and how easy it is, it's like there's no overthinking. You're just doing because you have a North Star that you're following, and then that North Star is solving the pain point and the problem of who you're trying to attract in.

Shannon 00:14:41  Yes, I really do believe I mean, I with all, every fiber of my being, I believe one of the biggest struggles for retreat leaders is this it's their marketing message. It's there. It's their brand. It's the look and feel of what they're trying to communicate. And. And I feel like they struggle the most with this. And this is where they get the most stuck. And they just put something together and then wonder why it's not working. And so please hear me when I say this for my listeners. Like, this is where you are stuck. I, I promise this is probably where you're stuck and you're thinking you're not getting sales because of your price, or you're thinking you're not getting sales because of the location or whatever.

Shannon 00:15:21  And it's probably 99.9% of the time. It's the branding, and the messaging is falling flat. It's not reaching who it's supposed to reach. It's not consistent. It's not vibrant. It's not the energy you're trying to create. You're not attracting the people you want to attract because it's just not hitting the mark. So I'm so glad you're talking about it.

Kara 00:15:40  Yeah, 100%. And again, you can go to Squarespace and build a website over a weekend. And and it could be very successful if you have the positioning and an authentic voice and really great visuals. It's not the methodology of how you do it. There's a lot of ways such as Canva, such as AI, to get there, but you have to start with that base of of being different. Like if you look like everyone else, there's nothing to sink your teeth into that makes you stand out. And especially when you start to advertise. Because if you start putting money into that and then you start soliciting people to land, that ad could be the best looking ad ever.

Kara 00:16:20  And it could say, but if they land on your website and then it doesn't feel like that, or you're not answering those questions, they're going to bounce and your bounce rate will be so high because they're going to land on something that doesn't feel safe, authentic, or, you know, matching their pain points. And so that that's why the the visuals kind of come in second or sometimes there.

Shannon 00:16:40  I really do think that you're exactly right. And do you have to hire a professional? Maybe not. But here's where I think the struggle is, is they they don't have the skill set if I'm being honest. They just don't like I have to. I have to partner with someone I don't. Just my skill set is what I deliver at the retreat and what I teach people to do. But when it comes to exact marketing branding strategy, I have to bring in someone else for my own stuff. I can see other people's better than my own stuff, right? It's that's what happens sometimes. and so working with a, an organization or a partner or somebody who knows how to do that, I think is really, really valuable, especially if, as a retreat leader, you're sitting here going, why am I not getting the sales? What is happening? And if you're truly consistently showing up but you're not getting the the traction you think it is almost most likely to do with your branding and your messaging.

Shannon 00:17:33  It's just falling flat.

Kara 00:17:35  100% I agree. And we help people. And one of the things that makes us uniquely different is we will work with what's working and help you with the roadblocks that aren't or the gaps. So it's not like you have to come to us and we have to do it all or we won't work with you. We actually look at what's working and what brand equity you have, and in some cases, there's a lot that's working and we can kind of just come in and we don't Band-Aid. We actually solve it and we look at the problems and then we look out also not where are you now? Where are you going? So everything we're building and creating is actually giving you legs to get to where your ultimate vision is so that you don't have to redo this like the goal of branding. And most of our clients are in ten plus years. Not only are they still coming back to help them grow, but they're not coming back to rebrand. And that is because the level of who they are and what they do is so clear and it's timeless.

Kara 00:18:30  It doesn't feel trendy or attached to something that's popular today. It actually feels, you know, something that could have been five years ago, 20 years from now. It just feels safe and seen. And that is another key to this whole thing, is to stay far away from very heavy trends, because it will make you go through this process again and again.

Shannon 00:18:52  Yes, yes. Gosh, I so agree with that. Well, Miss Kara, if somebody wanted to work with you, do you have something special for them? I think you mentioned.

Kara 00:19:01  I did earlier. You're offering 20% to anybody that finds us through this podcast. We have lots of packages everywhere, from positioning to visuals to positioning, visuals and a website. We can do them in an intensive process as quick as a week or two, or we can spread it out and do a larger scale project that can take a couple of months. But we understand that these types of projects are kind of hot and they're ready to go. So we have figured out ways for us to build packages specific to retreats and wellness groups.

Kara 00:19:33  That can happen as fast as you guys need us to. And we do that hands on one on one. And we have a really specific staff that helps and handles these types of clients. And I am the creative director, founder leader of made and you will work with me individually, and then my staff helps execute all the way to the end. And I am with the project from the beginning to the end. So that's another thing that differentiates us. And we are offering 20% off of any package. If you find us through this podcast.

Shannon 00:20:03  Awesome! Well, her website is made outside, but it will also be in the show notes, so I highly, highly recommend that you take her up on this offer because more than likely, if you are not hitting where you are wanting to hit, it has something to do with your branding, marketing strategy and your messaging and where it's falling flat. So Kara, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

Kara 00:20:27  Absolutely, Shannon, thank you for having me.

Kara 00:20:29  And I look forward to helping all of your guests.

Shannon 00:20:33  Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the retreat. See you next time.