The Retreat Leaders Podcast
Welcome to your go-to podcast for all things retreat leadership - where the team behind Retreat Ranch shares real talk, expert strategy, and behind-the-scenes stories to help you run a profitable and powerful retreat business. From crafting unforgettable guest experiences to avoiding expensive mistakes, we cover it all with a mix of wisdom, wit, and a little woo. Whether you're a seasoned retreat leader, venue owner, or dreaming of launching your first event, this show is your compass to build, grow, and thrive in the retreat world. Learn more at https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/ *Formerly the Happy Hour Podcast
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EP 249 If You’re Not Failing, You’re Not Trying Hard Enough
11/20/2025
EP 249 If You’re Not Failing, You’re Not Trying Hard Enough
In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about something every retreat leader needs to hear: failure isn’t the enemy - it’s proof that you’re in the game. If you’re not failing, you’re not trying hard enough. Shannon dives into why “falling short” - whether it’s your finances, your workshop, your attendance, or your execution - isn’t something to avoid, it’s something to learn from. You can hire the best coach, join the smartest program, and learn from the pros… and you’ll still make mistakes. The difference? You’ll fail faster and smarter. Shannon also shares how community is the real secret weapon for success - and how the Retreat Industry Forum is designed to bring that support, connection, and collective wisdom together for retreat hosts ready to grow. Key Takeaways If you’re not failing, you’re not stretching yourself enough. Failure doesn’t mean your retreat “flopped” — it means something fell short and gave you data. The biggest mistake is waiting on the sidelines instead of doing the thing. Coaching and programs can help minimize expensive mistakes, but you’ll still fail — that’s how you grow. Community is what turns failure into forward momentum — and that’s exactly what the Retreat Industry Forumis all about. The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | --------- Timestamps Failure as Evidence of Progress (00:01:09) Explains why failure means you’re taking action and is a necessary part of growth in the retreat business. Defining Failure in Retreats (00:02:10) Clarifies what failure actually looks like in retreats—missed goals, missteps, and learning opportunities. Personal Failures and Lessons Learned (00:03:17) Shannon shares her own failures and how each one contributed to her growth and resilience. Taking Action vs. Waiting (00:04:27) Encourages listeners to take action rather than waiting for perfect conditions, emphasizing learning by doing. The Necessity of Investment (00:05:24) Discusses the importance of investing time, money, and energy into building a sustainable retreat business. Retreat Industry Forum Promotion (00:06:32) Promotes the upcoming Retreat Industry Forum event, highlighting its value for industry professionals. Value of Coaching and Courses (00:06:32) Explains how coaching and courses can help avoid mistakes but emphasizes that failure is still part of the process. Treating Retreats as a Business (00:07:37) Urges listeners to approach retreats professionally, not as a hobby, and to invest in education and growth. Importance of Community (00:08:40) Highlights the role of community and support in overcoming challenges and learning from others in the industry. Continuous Learning and Industry Evolution (00:09:45) Stresses the importance of ongoing learning, innovation, and collaboration in the ever-evolving retreat industry. Encouragement and Call to Action (00:10:53) Encourages listeners to keep moving forward, join the community, and treat their retreat business seriously.
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EP 248 Why Retreat Leaders Who Don’t Evolve in AI + SEO Will Be Left Behind
11/13/2025
EP 248 Why Retreat Leaders Who Don’t Evolve in AI + SEO Will Be Left Behind
If you’re still marketing your retreats like it’s 2022, you’re already behind. In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail drops the truth about how the digital marketing landscape has shifted - and why AI integration isn’t optional anymore. From Google rewriting your meta descriptions to the rise of algorithmic visibility, the retreat industry is evolving fast. Shannon breaks down how retreat leaders can start using AI tools strategically - not just for blogs and social media, but to analyze data, personalize messaging, and scale visibility. She also gives a sneak peek at the Full AI + Marketing Blueprint that she, Erin Haag, and Alison Katschkowsky will unveil at the Retreat Industry Forum in Denver. Because what worked last year? Isn’t what’s working now. Key Takeaways AI is changing how every digital platform decides who gets seen. Your content needs to speak to humans and machines to stay visible. AI isn’t here to replace your creativity — it’s here to free you to create more connection. Marketing that worked a year ago is outdated today. You need a plan that evolves as fast as technology — and that’s what’s coming at the Forum. The Retreat Industry Forum — May 14–17, 2026 | Denver, CO Learn more at The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | --------- Timestamps Introduction & Podcast Overview (00:00:02) Shannon introduces herself, the podcast, and the focus on building profitable, impactful retreat businesses. Why AI & SEO Matter Now (00:01:16) Explains why traditional marketing is outdated and the necessity of integrating AI and SEO into retreat marketing. The Shift in Marketing: Context & Authority (00:02:21) Discusses how AI is changing marketing from keywords to context and authority, and the importance of adapting quickly. AI’s Impact on Digital Visibility (00:03:28) Describes how platforms use AI to determine visibility and why digital presence must be optimized for both humans and AI. Google’s AI Meta Descriptions & Forum Promo (00:04:27) Mentions Google testing AI-written meta descriptions and promotes the upcoming Retreat Industry Forum. Practical Ways to Use AI in Retreat Marketing (00:05:36) Outlines actionable AI strategies: smarter research, automatic content repurposing, performance analysis, and personalized communication. The Need for Strategic, AI-Optimized Content (00:07:48) Emphasizes that visibility now depends on algorithmic, AI-optimized content, not just posting attractive photos or reels.
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EP 247 Redefining Tantra and Running a Profitable Retreat Business with Justin Gottlieb
11/06/2025
EP 247 Redefining Tantra and Running a Profitable Retreat Business with Justin Gottlieb
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Justin Gottlieb - a sexual freedom coach, Tantra practitioner, and retreat host who transitioned from the corporate world to full-time facilitation. Together, they unpack what Tantra really is (and isn’t), how to maintain integrity in intimate retreat settings, and why it’s time for more men to step into leadership roles in the wellness and retreat space. Justin shares how he and his co-facilitator Leola create transformational retreats rooted in safety, consent, and empowerment - and how they’ve built a sustainable retreat business model that honors both healing and profitability. If you’ve ever been curious about Tantra, gender balance in leadership, or how to elevate the professionalism of your retreat business, this episode is a must-listen. Key Takeaways Tantra is more than sexuality - it’s about energy, presence, and deep personal growth through mindfulness, breathwork, and embodiment. Safety and consent are non-negotiable: Justin and Leola’s application and interview process ensures aligned participants and safe group dynamics. Professionalism matters: Transparent communication with venues and strong operational systems allow facilitators to focus on transformation instead of logistics. Masculine–feminine balance: Co-facilitation across genders can create more grounded and powerful retreat experiences. Retreats as a real business: Pricing, screening, and intentional marketing are essential to attract committed clients and avoid burnout. Episode Highlights [02:15] Justin’s transition from corporate life to Tantra and retreat facilitation. [07:40] Redefining Tantra and clearing misconceptions about Neo-Tantra. [14:10] How Justin screens participants and ensures emotional safety. [19:25] The power of venue transparency and building trust with hosts like Retreat Ranch. [25:50] Why masculine presence is vital in retreat leadership. [32:00] Pricing, profitability, and shifting the scarcity mindset in the retreat industry. Listen to This Episode If You: Want to better understand Tantra from a grounded, professional lens. Are interested in how men can contribute meaningfully in the retreat space. Need inspiration for creating safer, more inclusive, and more profitable retreats. Are a retreat leader looking to blend purpose and profit without compromising integrity. Connect with Justin: Instagram: @tantralovecoach The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | -------------------- Timestamps Justin’s Background & Journey to Tantra (00:02:16) Justin shares his transition from corporate to coaching, focusing on intimacy, sexuality, and tantra. First Retreat Experience & Organization (00:03:48) Discussion of Justin’s first retreat, its organization, and Shannon’s impressions as a venue owner. Misconceptions About Tantra (00:04:43) Justin addresses common myths about tantra, clarifying its true focus and practices. Ideal Retreat Attendees (00:06:42) Justin describes the types of people who attend his retreats and what draws them in. Screening Process & Boundaries (00:08:23) Justin explains his thorough screening process and the importance of boundaries for safety. Retreat Industry Forum Announcement (00:10:36) Shannon promotes the upcoming Retreat Industry Forum event in Denver. Venue Selection & Importance of Safety (00:11:55) Justin discusses what he values in a retreat venue, emphasizing safety, privacy, and support. Men in the Retreat Industry (00:16:43) Conversation about the underrepresentation of men as retreat leaders and the value of male facilitators. Profitability & Pricing Mindset (00:19:22) Discussion on treating retreats as a business, pricing strategies, and differences in mindset between men and women. Screening Through Pricing & Value (00:20:50) Justin explains how pricing acts as a screening tool and why higher investment leads to better outcomes. Scholarships & Guest Challenges (00:22:41) Both discuss challenges with scholarship attendees and the importance of a strong screening process. Market Rate & Industry Mindset (00:23:28) Shannon and Justin talk about raising market rates and shifting scarcity mindsets in the industry. Value Perception & Pricing Story (00:24:23) Justin shares a story illustrating how higher prices increase perceived value and participant commitment. How to Connect with Justin (00:26:30) Justin provides his contact information and describes his offerings for those interested in working with him. Episode Wrap-Up & Outro (00:27:25) Shannon thanks Justin, closes the episode, and shares where to find more resources.
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EP 246 A Guest Experience and Real Talk on Women’s Wellness & Retreat Leadership with Remi Gibbs
10/30/2025
EP 246 A Guest Experience and Real Talk on Women’s Wellness & Retreat Leadership with Remi Gibbs
In this heartfelt and honest episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail reconnects with former retreat guest and midlife women’s life coach, Remi Gibbs, to talk about everything from freezing yurts to forgiveness-and how retreats offer powerful portals for healing and purpose. Together, they dive into: Remi’s unforgettable experience at Retreat Ranch (spoiler: it involves a hot tub and sub-zero temps) The difference between acceptance and true forgiveness—and why that distinction matters How Shannon handled an unexpected power outage like a pro (a lesson in leadership grace) The untapped power of retreats for women navigating midlife, menopause, and major life transitions Why healthy habits and hormonal support are non-negotiables for long-term transformation Whether you're a retreat leader or a woman in the middle of her own life reinvention, this episode is your permission slip to show up real, resilient, and ready to grow. Learn more: Midlife Life Coach + Founder of [Renovated Realities] Instagram: LinkedIn: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ---------- Timestamps: Welcoming Remy Gibbs & Reconnecting (00:01:45) Shannon welcomes Remy, reminisces about their last meeting in 2022, and discusses staying in touch. Remy’s Retreat Experience: The Freeze & Connection (00:02:25) Remy recalls attending the 2022 retreat, challenges with a freeze and heater issues, and the value of connecting with others. Forgiveness vs. Acceptance Discussion (00:03:21) Remy shares a personal story about forgiveness, acceptance, and how the retreat helped her move forward. The Stress Reduction Workshop & Forgiveness Process (00:04:04) Shannon and Remy discuss the impact of forgiveness, the difference from acceptance, and how it affects personal growth. Tools for Healing and Teaching Others (00:06:22) They talk about the importance of having tools for healing and teaching others to build better coping mechanisms. Handling Challenges as a Retreat Leader (00:06:46) Shannon describes dealing with Texas freezes, the importance of flexibility, and adapting to unexpected situations at retreats. Choosing the Retreat: Remy’s Motivation (00:08:52) Remy explains why she chose Shannon’s retreat, her personal struggles, and the importance of location and agenda. Evolving Retreat Agendas & Flexibility (00:10:14) Shannon discusses how her retreat agendas have evolved to allow more flexibility and self-care for attendees. The Importance of Recovery and Responsiveness (00:12:12) Remy and Shannon emphasize the importance of recovery when things go wrong and how leaders respond to challenges. Transition to Remy’s Work & Life Coaching (00:14:39) Shannon invites Remy to share about her work as a certified life coach, focusing on women in midlife. Navigating Midlife: Health, Habits, and Purpose (00:15:01) Remy discusses midlife challenges, healthy habits, mindset shifts, and finding purpose during menopause and beyond. Community and Support in Midlife (00:21:43) They highlight the importance of community for women in midlife, especially during menopause, and how retreats foster this. Medical Support and Mental Health in Menopause (00:23:03) Remy and Shannon discuss the need for specialized medical support, mental health challenges, and historical context of menopause. Encouragement for Retreat Leaders & Collaboration (00:24:31) Shannon encourages retreat leaders to educate themselves on midlife issues and consider collaborating with experts like Remy. Remy’s Contact Information & Episode Wrap-Up (00:25:10) Remy shares her website, Shannon wraps up the episode, and they express excitement about future connections.
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EP 245 Lead the Retreat, Don’t Burn Out: Energy + Values for Sustainable Leadership with Lucy Dutton
10/23/2025
EP 245 Lead the Retreat, Don’t Burn Out: Energy + Values for Sustainable Leadership with Lucy Dutton
In this uplifting and practical episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by UK-based performance coach and former professional dancer Lucy Dutton to talk about something not enough retreat leaders are addressing: how to lead retreats without sacrificing your own well-being. Lucy shares her powerful journey from the high-stakes world of professional dance to wellness and peak performance coaching—and how her deep understanding of energy, values, and leadership now helps retreat leaders avoid burnout. Together, they explore: ✅ Why energy management matters more than location or food ✅ The hidden danger of leading retreats while running on empty ✅ How to use your personal values as a decision-making compass ✅ Why your environment directly impacts your energy ✅ The difference between holding space and emotionally oversharing ✅ How to stay inspired and grounded even during high-demand retreats Whether you're planning your first retreat or you're a seasoned pro, this conversation will help you lead from a place of calm, clarity, and conviction. About Lucy: Lucy J Dutton is a certified peak performance coach and speaker , international best selling author with 30 years of experience coaching entrepreneurs on productivity, goal setting, and transforming limiting beliefs. She empowers female holistic service based entrepreneurs and small business owners to become peak performers in life and business. So that their business grows easily, and they experience fulfilment and joy in their personal life. Lucy was a professional dancer for 10 years and has been an entrepreneur and coach for over 3 decades. Despite the fact that she used to be painfully shy, she found her voice by pushing through the awkward and uncomfortable times. Gradually building her self-confidence and self-belief. She has founded her own Holistic Peak Performance Coaching business to complement the health coaching she was already doing. With health and fitness being the foundation of everything she does. Learn more: https://lucyjdutton.com/ The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ------- Timestamps Guest Introduction: Lucy Dutton’s Background (00:01:43) Lucy shares her journey from professional dancer to peak performance coach. The Demands of Dancing and Self-Care (00:04:08) Discussion about the physical and emotional demands of dancing and the importance of self-care. Retreat Leaders’ Energy Drain (00:05:35) Shannon describes how retreat leaders often neglect their own well-being, leading to exhaustion. The Importance of Energy and Daily Practices (00:07:32) Lucy explains the significance of maintaining personal energy and implementing daily self-care practices. Understanding and Aligning with Core Values (00:09:09) Lucy discusses discovering personal values and how misalignment can affect retreat experiences. Creating Supportive Environments (00:10:24) Lucy outlines the importance of physical, social, and informational environments for retreat leaders. Avoiding Negative Influences and Comparison (00:11:55) Shannon emphasizes avoiding negative news, unsupportive people, and comparison with other retreat leaders. Deep Dive into Values and Retreat Alignment (00:15:50) Lucy explains how knowing your values helps in choosing the right retreat venues and collaborators. Energy as the Key to Retreat Success (00:19:22) Shannon highlights that a leader’s energy can make or break a retreat, outweighing venue or food quality. How to Work with Lucy Dutton (00:20:14) Lucy shares how listeners can connect with her for coaching and personal development. Episode Wrap-Up and Resources (00:21:10) Shannon thanks Lucy, mentions additional resources, and closes the episode.
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EP 244 Building Profitable Retreats Through Relationships with Lesley Jordan
10/16/2025
EP 244 Building Profitable Retreats Through Relationships with Lesley Jordan
In this heart-filled and high-impact episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with luxury couples retreat host Lesley Jordan to explore the real keys to retreat success-and spoiler alert: it’s not just about the perfect venue or a pretty website. From her beginnings as a travel agent to launching powerful, profitable retreats for couples of all backgrounds, Lesley shares how mentorship, strategic pricing, and relationship-first marketing changed the game for her. Together, Shannon and Lesley dig into: How to actually pick the right business coach (hint: ask about profit) Why building real connections beats flashy marketing What it takes to design inclusive retreats that sell out and transform lives The truth about vetting mentors in a saturated online space Lesley’s upcoming LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples retreats focused on love, intimacy, and reconnection If you’re building a retreat brand that centers around depth, authenticity, and aligned growth—this one’s for you. Learn more: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ---------------- Timestamps: Introducing Leslie Jordan (00:01:00) Shannon introduces guest Leslie Jordan, highlighting her energy and inviting her to share her background. Leslie’s Journey to Retreats (00:01:35) Leslie shares her transition from travel agent to retreat curator, focusing on luxury retreats for couples and women. The Power of Coaching in Retreat Business (00:02:25) Discussion on meeting through a coach, the importance of having a coach, and the loneliness of entrepreneurship. Finding the Right Coach (00:03:16) Leslie describes her experience with different coaches, learning about business models, pricing, and defining her retreat offerings. Building Relationships Over Pretty Marketing (00:04:00) Leslie explains the importance of building genuine relationships with clients, not just relying on attractive websites. Creating Lavish Couples Retreats (00:05:02) Leslie talks about launching her own retreat business, focusing on reconnection and intimacy for various types of couples. The Value of Multiple Coaches (00:05:24) Shannon and Leslie discuss the benefits of having more than one coach with different expertise. Marketing vs. Selling & Relationship Building (00:06:02) Emphasis on turning marketing activities into real relationships and the changing landscape of the retreat industry. Learning Strategy and Pricing (00:06:52) Leslie shares how her coaches helped her with sales strategies, pricing, and repeat business. Choosing Experienced Coaches (00:07:29) Shannon stresses the importance of working with experienced coaches who understand the retreat business deeply. Treating Retreats as a Business (00:09:00) Discussion on treating retreats as a business model, not just an event, and integrating it with other offerings. Overcoming Fear and Stagnation (00:09:18) Leslie recounts how the wrong coaching held her back and how the right coaches helped her move forward. Vetting Coaches and Profitability (00:10:36) Advice on vetting coaches, asking about their experience, and ensuring they understand profitability in retreats. Industry Trends and Red Flags (00:11:37) Warning about inexperienced coaches and the importance of understanding all aspects of the retreat business. Profitability is Essential (00:11:59) Shannon and Leslie agree that breaking even is not a sustainable business model for retreats. Attending Retreats as Research (00:12:31) Leslie shares the value of attending retreats, especially those hosted by your coach, to learn logistics and marketing. The Importance of Being an Attendee (00:13:11) Shannon emphasizes that aspiring retreat leaders should attend retreats themselves to gain perspective. Community and Networking Benefits (00:15:07) Discussion on the community, networking, and collaborations that come from being part of a coaching group. Ongoing Value of Retreat Attendance (00:16:24) Leslie and Shannon discuss the ongoing benefits of attending retreats, including support, networking, and personal growth. Leslie’s Upcoming Retreats (00:17:18) Leslie shares details about her upcoming retreats for LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples, and her inclusive approach. How to Connect with Leslie (00:18:52) Leslie provides her website and social media handles for listeners to learn more or join her retreats.
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Special Release: Launching The Retreat Industry Forum: Be the First to Access VIP Tickets!
10/15/2025
Special Release: Launching The Retreat Industry Forum: Be the First to Access VIP Tickets!
Shannon Jamail, Erin Haag, and Alison Katschkowsky come together on this special episode to officially announce the Retreat Industry Forum happening May 14–17, 2026 in Colorado. In this conversation, they share the vision behind the event, why this gathering is unlike anything else in the retreat industry, and what attendees can expect-from powerful keynotes and interactive workshops to a VIP experience designed for deeper strategy and connection. The big news? The interest list opens TODAY (October 15th) for 10 days only! Those on the list will have first dibs at VIP tickets before they’re released to the general public on November 1st. If you’ve been waiting for your chance to learn from top retreat leaders and transform the way you build, market, and profit from retreats, now’s the time to get in early Get on the list: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ----- Timestamps Guest Introductions & Excitement (00:01:16) Shannon welcomes Aaron Hague and Alison Kaye, expressing excitement about a big announcement. How the Collaboration Began (00:01:40) Speakers discuss how their partnership started, referencing a seed planted in May 2025 in Champagne, France. How They Met & Initial Connections (00:02:06) The group shares how they met online, became aligned, and eventually met in person at a retreat. Industry Frustrations & Shared Values (00:03:39) Speakers discuss frustrations with the retreat industry’s mindset and their shared business-focused approach. Business Perspective on Retreats (00:05:02) Alison emphasizes treating retreats as serious business ventures, not just fun getaways. Aaron’s Background & Industry Disruption (00:06:01) Aaron shares her business background and how she became an “accidental disruptor” in the retreat industry. Profit, Impact, and Industry Mindset (00:09:08) The group discusses the false separation of profit and impact, and the prevalence of scarcity mindset. Retreats Beyond Wellness & Industry Vision (00:09:55) Aaron highlights that retreats exist beyond wellness/spirituality and introduces their vision to elevate the entire industry. Announcement: Retreat Industry Forum (00:11:38) The team announces the Retreat Industry Forum, a three-day event in Colorado to help retreat leaders build profitable businesses. Event Details & Waitlist Information (00:12:44) Aaron explains the event dates, waitlist process, VIP tickets, and opportunities for vendors and sponsors. What to Expect at the Forum (00:14:28) Details on the forum’s content, including sharing proven strategies and bringing in industry experts. Encouragement to Join & Industry Movement (00:16:35) Speakers encourage listeners to join the event, emphasizing collaboration, industry growth, and the importance of being “in the room.” The Power of Saying Yes & Collaboration (00:18:42) They reflect on how collaboration started by saying yes to opportunities and the importance of networking. Closing & Call to Action (00:20:07) Final reminders to join the event, check the website, and stay tuned for more details. Podcast Outro (00:20:25) Shannon thanks listeners, encourages subscribing, and shares where to find more resources. Are you happy with the results?
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EP 243 Profitable Without Pressure: Why You Don’t Need to Do It All to Run a Successful Retreat with Anna VanAgtmael
10/09/2025
EP 243 Profitable Without Pressure: Why You Don’t Need to Do It All to Run a Successful Retreat with Anna VanAgtmael
You do not have to run yourself ragged to host powerful, profitable retreats, and this episode is proof. In this honest and hilarious conversation, Shannon Jamail sits down with Anna VanAgtmael, founder of Wandering Roots and host of 22 retreats since 2018, to explore how retreat leaders can ditch the pressure, drop the people-pleasing, and build a business that’s both meaningful and sustainable. They dive into: The biggest mistakes new retreat leaders make (and how to avoid them) Pricing with confidence and energetic alignment Why less on the itinerary often leads to more transformation How to stop comparing your retreat to everyone else’s Whether you're an aspiring host or a seasoned retreat pro, this conversation will give you the permission slip you didn’t know you needed: you don’t have to do it all to make it amazing. Connect with Anna: Instagram: @yourwanderingroots Special Offer: Build a profitable retreat in one minute per day: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ---------------------------------- Timestamps: Introduction & Host Welcome (00:00:02) Shannon introduces the podcast, its purpose, and encourages listeners to subscribe and leave reviews. Guest Introduction: Anna’s Background (00:01:13) Anna is introduced; she shares her experience hosting retreats and helping others plan profitable ones. Anna’s Journey to Retreats (00:02:23) Anna describes her transition from lab manager to retreat leader after a car accident and discovering yoga. Current Retreat Structure & Ideal Guests (00:03:46) Anna explains her current retreat schedule, types of retreats, and the demographics of her typical guests. Transitioning & Scaling Back Retreats (00:05:00) Discussion about scaling back the number of retreats to focus on quality and personal fulfillment. Avoiding Burnout & Preserving Passion (00:06:04) Anna and Shannon discuss the importance of not overworking and maintaining excitement for each retreat. Profitability Without Pressure (00:07:19) Exploring how retreats can be profitable without feeling pressured to do everything or mimic others. Retreats: Business vs. Expensive Hobby (00:09:29) Emphasis on treating retreats as a business, not just a passion project or costly hobby. Letting Go of People-Pleasing & Overstuffed Itineraries (00:11:03) Advice on avoiding over-scheduling and people-pleasing, and ensuring retreats have free time and focus. Pricing, Money Beliefs, and Value (00:13:13) Discussion on pricing retreats, overcoming limiting beliefs about money, and ensuring energetic alignment with pricing. Gender Differences in Pricing & Money Mindset (00:15:04) Comparison of how men and women price retreats, and the impact of cultural money beliefs. Profit, Burnout, and Lifestyle Alignment (00:17:24) Importance of pricing for sustainability and creating a lifestyle you enjoy, not just covering costs. Common Mistakes & Lessons Learned (00:18:34) Anna shares mistakes like trying to do everything alone, not arriving early, and the value of support staff. Arriving Early & Staying After Retreats (00:20:15) Best practices for arriving before and staying after retreats to ensure smooth experiences and self-care. Self-Care for Retreat Leaders (00:21:34) The importance of post-retreat downtime, rest, and self-care for leaders after guests depart. How to Connect with Anna (00:22:40) Anna shares her websites for those interested in attending or planning retreats with her.
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EP 242 Ready, Set, Retreat: 12 Questions Every Retreat Leader Needs Answered
10/02/2025
EP 242 Ready, Set, Retreat: 12 Questions Every Retreat Leader Needs Answered
In this solo Q&A episode, Shannon Jamail tackles the 12 most frequently asked questions from aspiring and experienced retreat leaders alike. From knowing when you’re truly ready to host a retreat, to choosing the right venue, pricing for profit, and marketing without sounding salesy, Shannon covers it all with no-fluff, straight-shooting advice. Whether you're just starting out or looking to sharpen your strategy, these questions are the ones that come up in her DMs, workshops, and mastermind calls every single week. With years of experience as a retreat host and venue owner, Shannon shares what works (and what to avoid) so you can build profitable, transformational retreats with confidence. You’ll walk away with clarity, strategy, and a new level of confidence around your retreat business! The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon Jamail 00:00:02 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast. The show for visionary coaches, healers, wellness pros and small business owners who aren't just here to host another feel good getaway, but to build a profitable, impactful retreat business. I'm your host, Shannon Jamail, retreat strategist, business mentor, and owner of a 46 acre retreat center. I've hosted over 100 retreats around the world, and I've made every mistake so you don't have to. Each week we'll dive into the mindset, marketing, money, business and mechanics behind sold out profitable retreats. Plus, hear from expert guests who are walking the talk. Whether you're planning your first retreat or scaling your 100th, you're in the right place. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Welcome to our welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. I am coming off of an Incredible three day conference that I cannot wait to tell you guys more about. I'm still processing, but it literally is going to change how I show up in what I do and just how I show up as a human. Shannon Jamail 00:01:10 I'm that excited about it. But today, what we're going to talk about is the top 12 questions I get asked all the time, whether it's from podcast listeners or in my Facebook group or emails or messages like these are the top 12 questions that I get asked all the time. All right, let's dig in. First one, how do I know if I'm ready to lead a retreat? This is such a good question. And actually, if you're asking this question, you're on the right track, period. Because I think too many times people just jump in, they start planning things and making websites and all this stuff, and they have not done any of the work that's really required in order to start hosting retreats. And the first one is asking yourself, how do I know if I'm ready? And to me, there's a few things. The first one is do you have a clear purpose for the retreat? Not just a desire to travel or gather people, but like a clear purpose, a clear promise? What is the transformation? What is the guest going to experience and feel, and what's going to be different at the end of your retreat? Is it super clear? Are you super clear on who you're going to serve? Who is that guest? And I mean super clear. Shannon Jamail 00:02:24 Like crystal clear. That guest has a name. It's a full avatar. It is. You know exactly who they are, where they live, how much money they make, if they're working out of the home, if they're working in the home, you know where they shop. You know what social platforms they're on. You know exactly who this person is that you are marketing to. So crystal clear on the promise, the transformation and crystal clear on who you are serving. And this isn't just I think I know and go for it. No, this is writing it down. Journaling it out. Getting really deep and nitty gritty in knowing who this person is and what the promises of the transformation is. I cannot emphasize this enough how important this is. So those are the first two things that are really important, because the confidence is going to come from the clarity. Like, truly, your confidence will come from the clarity of knowing exactly who you're going to serve and exactly how you're going to serve and how they're going to feel at the end of your retreat, the transformation that you're going to facilitate. Shannon Jamail 00:03:25 So that's super important. Before you start hosting, before you even put together anything, there's two things I think you should do. Also the first one is attend retreats. If you've never attended a retreat, you have no business hosting a retreat. I'm just going to say it just like that. You have no business hosting retreats if you're not attending retreats. And when you do start hosting retreats, you should continue to attend retreats. You have to walk the talk. Okay. So attend retreats. You're going to learn so much on retreats. First of all, you're going to get whatever transformation they are promising ideally. But also you're going to learn. What did you love about it? What did you not like about it? How are you going to structure your retreat by the things that you learn from that retreat? Now, that does not mean that you go copy somebody retreat. That's not cool. This is just about market research and understanding what you like as a person and then taking that into your retreat space. Shannon Jamail 00:04:26 So please understand the difference of that. But you should be attending retreats. The other thing is I highly recommend this, but it's not as important, although I might argue with myself on that. Go work retreats. Go work at a retreat. I have a work exchange program for almost all of my retreats. Lots of hosts offer work exchange type of positions, or there's retreat centers. Whatever it is, however you get in there, go work a retreat. And when you do ask how you can really help behind the scenes as well. I have hosted or I have helped a few retreat leaders that at the end of hosting their own retreat, they're like, this is not for me. This was so much more work than I thought it would be. I was physically and emotionally drained. I do not have the capacity capacity for it or the like for it, whatever. And so they spent a lot of time and money and energy building up this retreat brand, hosting their first retreat, and then realizing, I don't like this. Shannon Jamail 00:05:26 No thank you. And so go work a retreat. If you do those few things, know exactly who you're going to serve, what you're going to serve, what the transformation is. You attend retreats and work retreats. You will know at the end of that if you are ready. Okay. At that point, if you still feel like, yes, this is what I want to do, then go for it. Question number two how far in advance should I start planning my retreat? This will vary by a couple of variables, I would say. And also, by the way, it varies by your demographic. It varies by your geographic. It varies by your community. As far as do you have an established community? There's so many variables. So I don't feel like there's a one size fits all, but ideally there's somewhere between the 9 to 12 month range. You could go as low as six months. I would not put together a retreat with less than six months. That's just me. Shannon Jamail 00:06:22 There might be other people out there that will tell you differently, but I wouldn't do it with less than six months. And so the 9 to 12 really, again, it varies. Like for me, my international retreats, I actually plan them two years in advance. And that's for a number of reasons, a lot to do with me personally. And so my retreats that are in my home country, it's definitely 12 months. Part of that too, is I own a venue, and so just having to schedule in things appropriately, like it's just a whole thing, but I really start marketing somewhere between 6 to 9 months. That's when I'm marketing, and that's what I'm selling is between 6 to 9 months. Now, have I seen retreat leaders do it within 2 to 3 months? Yes I have. They're very much exceptions to the rule. Usually. Usually it's because they have a very big community. It's because they've done it before. It's because the community's begging for it. There's just those very active, engaged things that are happening that they are able to do that and and make it work successfully. Shannon Jamail 00:07:29 Otherwise, again, 9 to 12 months, as little as six months, depending on where you're at and all of that type of thing. If you've answered question number one and you know you still want to do retreats, I would start building an interest list right then and there. Without even having your dates or anything, I would just start building your interest list. So that's just an FYI. Okay. Question number three how do I choose the right location or venue? So I've answered this in our podcast and I've blogged about it. And so there's different resources that you can find that I've already talked about this, but here's what I will say. You need to think about who your ideal guest is. That avatar we talked about like what's their vibe? What is approximately their budget? What's their travel comfort level like? For instance, for me, I thought about hosting a retreat in Greece. But when I realized for me personally, coming from Austin, Texas, how long it was going to take me to get there and how many planes and boats and shuttles I had to get on, I was like, that's just not for me. Shannon Jamail 00:08:30 And it's it's just an incredible location. By the way, there is no knocking that Greece is an incredible location to host, but I'm not interested in going through that much travel to get there. And so it's probably never going to be on my list. Thinking about your ideal guest, what do they prefer? What amenities are important to your ideal guest. For instance, I had somebody actually contact me or contact the ranch a couple of days ago who I know personally. And she was like, you know, is this a good space for a luxury grieving retreat for women? And my answer is probably not retreat ranch. I listen, I'm biased. Retreat ranch is badass, okay. And the people who have come through here will tell you how badass it is. But I would not at all consider us a luxury venue. We are rustic chic luxury. I mean, we have incredible mattresses, we have bamboo sheets, we have curated products like there's lots of things and amenities and pieces that would be considered luxury. Shannon Jamail 00:09:28 But as a whole, our facility and our our, our retreat center is not a luxury retreat center. And so just knowing what your ideal guest needs and wants and that it matches you as well, right? Is it matching your needs? Because usually your ideal guest, your avatar, is you, but maybe a few steps behind, right? You've got tools, you've got transformation for them, you've got knowledge for them, but they're somewhat aligned with you. So what do you like? What's important to you? Is it important for it to be nature based? Is it important to have conference rooms like all of that stuff's important, I would say avoid choosing solely on price or aesthetics. You're looking for function support, vibe alignment. Okay. And so really think about what kind of support you would need as a host, especially if you're first time host. And does that facility provide that? Most rental facilities do not unless they are a retreat center. And so just keep that in mind, okay. Shannon Jamail 00:10:26 When you're looking for venue, hey retreat leaders, listen up. If you've been struggling to price your retreats, fill your retreats, or even start your retreat business, this is your moment. I'm hosting a one day High Impact workshop in London on October 10th. Designed to help you plan price, market and profit from transformational retreat Whether you're just starting out or scaling to your next level. This room is where your clarity begins, and you want to be in rooms that actually level up your business. By the way, it's a total business write up. What better way to visit London and write it off for business? Grab your spot now at Retreat Pro Workshop or click the links in the show notes. I'll see you in London. Next question. What's the right price to charge for my retreat and how do I justify it? I get this all the time, so I really get it. Especially at our venue, new hosts will say, what should I charge for this? And my answer is always, that's up to you. Shannon Jamail 00:11:27 And here's why. I have had hosts come in my ranch and charge $10,000 per person for a three night stay. That includes specific things, and I have heard hosts come to the ranch and host a three night retreat and charge less than $1,000 per person. Let that sink in for a minute. And by the way, both were sold out. So it really, really depends. What are you promising? What is the transformation? My $10,000 a person, retreat host is very niched, very specific, very exclusive. It is. I mean, it's it's a very specific demographic. Okay, so the more niched you get and the more specific you get and the more tools you're providing, the more that has value to it. Okay. So it just depends. You do not though, price it based on how much the venue cost, the food cost, the instructor's cost. Like that's all. Yes, yes. As my friend Aaron Hague would say that, you know, reverse engineering price pricing based on like your desired profit, expenses, value, etc. it's using math, right? But you don't just use math to add up those primary things, you've got to add in your profit. Shannon Jamail 00:12:49 And what your profit is, is so much more than the time you spend at retreat. It's so much bigger than that. It is your experience, your education, like everything that makes you who you are. Okay, so yes, use math, venue, food, all the expenses. And listen y'all, there's so many more expenses than venue food and goodie bags and like, there's so much to it. Are you adding your Canva cost? Are you adding credit card fees? Are you adding any, marketing, your own travel fees, gas, parking, whatever it is like? There's so much more to it. So make sure you have a budget sheet, but use math. Add in your profit. Also, add in what you would pay yourself at a retreat that's part of the payroll. So you're kind of getting paid twice, but really not. So you're getting paid payroll for working the retreat, just like you would pay some other person who's like in charge, like a manager, Right? Then you're also building in the profit. Shannon Jamail 00:13:47 The profit is what goes back into the business typically. Right. I love this. This is definitely straight from my friend Aaron Haig. I've never described it like this before, but it's described perfectly that way. And so there's so much that gets put into that price of the retreat. You really have to sit down, do the math, put it on a spreadsheet, map it out. Exactly. And then the numbers don't lie. And then you get an idea of what you should charge at that point. And here's what I also say. We get a lot of retreat leaders who are like, well, when they're sharing a bed, shouldn't it be half cost? No it shouldn't. Could there be a small discount because they share a bed? Yes. But all the other costs are the same per person, right? And so don't get confused in that. But here's at the end of the day what really needs to happen. You price with confidence. You need to be so confident in what you're offering and the transformation you're promising and the experience you're promising that you feel good when you say, my retreat is $6000 or $2000 or $20,000, like whatever it is, you need to feel so good. Shannon Jamail 00:14:53 And if it doesn't excite you at that rate that you have, then it's too low. It's too low. It needs to excite you. You need to be like, yes, I am so excited to do this retreat. I'm so excited to serve the people that show up here. I cannot wait to take them through this experience and this transformation, because profit and money has an energetic exchange too. So you need to be excited. Hopefully that helps a little bit. All right, next question. How do I market my retreat without sounding salesy my husband would say sales is a noble job, damn it. And it is. There's you know, there's just such a stigma around sales. But here's the truth. If you're not selling, you are not going to get the maximum return in your business. You cannot rely on marketing alone. By the way, there are two different things, Okay. You need to be selling. Marketing is attracting. Selling is closing. Okay? When it comes to selling, you sell with a story. Shannon Jamail 00:15:52 The value, the transformation. Not three nights in a luxury hotel. Yoga every day. Chef prepared meals. That's not it, y'all. That's not it. What's the story? What's the value? What's the transformation? And you use a combination of social proof, behind the scenes, all that stuff. But here's the real thing. You need to ask for the sell. I know, but let's let's imagine you've put together this incredible experience and a client that you've worked with in some other capacity, maybe coaching or something, somebody that, you know, you know, if they went on this retreat, it would change their life. Like you feel that. Call them, send them a video message, send them a voice memo and say, hey, Shannon, I just created this retreat that I'm so excited about and you came to mind and I think you would get so much value out of it. Can I share some details or set up a call to talk to you about it that's selling. You send out a newsletter. Shannon Jamail 00:16:49 People click on the link to find out information about your retreat. You reach out to each person that clicked on the link that's selling. So if you're not selling and you're only marketing, you are missing a ton of opportunity. I'll just leave it at that. Okay. Next one. How do I make sure my retreat actually makes a profit? I think we covered a lot of this already, but I think what I can say to this is budget meticulously. Budget meticulously. You would be shocked at the expenses that come up that you weren't prepared for, because not only should you budget meticulously, but you also want to add a cushion. On top of that, one of the members in my Retreat leader membership program was asking the other day about what they should do with food costs because the retreat is in a year from now, but the prices that they're getting today may not be the exact food cost. Right? And I'm like, you're right, there should be a cushion. The only thing that's completely locked in it should be completely locked in is your venue, because that's contracted. Shannon Jamail 00:17:54 Now, if you've contracted with a chef and they have put their own cushion into their prices because food, let's just be honest, food has been skyrocketing all over the place. Then you have a contracted price in there, but usually in a chefs contract it will have some wiggle room because the cost of goods could change. So budget, budget and then add a cushion. That's super important. The other thing that you can do and consider is what are you going to sale sell at your retreat? Like how are you going to continue this work that you're doing and how can you bring it into your business? Are you going to offer a coaching program, a mastermind program? Are you going to offer products themselves. Like what could you offer on your retreat that continues this relationship? are you ready to sell your next retreat on this retreat? Let me tell you something. When we are there at the retreat, like, okay, an example, this conference that I just left, I'm like, how can I sign up for the next one right now? Like, I want to sign up for the next one right...
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EP 241 Planning Purpose-Driven Retreats with Amity Cooper of 1890 & Wayfinding Ranch
09/25/2025
EP 241 Planning Purpose-Driven Retreats with Amity Cooper of 1890 & Wayfinding Ranch
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Amity Cooper, a licensed mental health professional turned ranch retreat host in Colorado. Together, they dive into the world of nature-based retreats, horse-led healing, and the business foundation every retreat leader needs to succeed. Amity shares her transition from private practice to owning and operating two stunning ranches—1890 Ranch and Wayfinding Ranch—spanning 80 acres. With a clear North Star guiding her work, Amity emphasizes that profitable, sustainable retreats start with purpose. They unpack what it means to align your retreat business with your life goals, why planning 12+ months out is crucial, and the behind-the-scenes systems needed to avoid burnout and cancellations. Whether you're a venue owner or aspiring retreat host, this conversation is a must-listen for those wanting to build impactful and intentional retreats. Connect with Amity: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ----------- Introduction & Guest Welcome (00:00:02) Shannon introduces the podcast, herself, and welcomes guest Amity Cooper, highlighting their similarities as venue owners. Amity’s Background & Ranch Story (00:01:46) Amity shares her journey from mental health professional to ranch and venue owner, and her motivation for creating retreat spaces. Is Hosting Retreats Right for You? (00:03:21) Discussion on evaluating if hosting retreats aligns with your lifestyle, goals, and business vision. Finding Your North Star & Why (00:04:18) Importance of identifying your purpose and motivation before starting a retreat business. Retreats as a Business, Not a Hobby (00:07:07) Emphasizing that retreats are a serious business venture requiring a clear purpose and resilience through challenges. Pitfalls of Poor Planning (00:08:30) Warning against casually throwing together retreats without a clear plan or purpose. Vision vs. Implementation: Roles & Systems (00:09:31) Clarifying the need for systems, clear roles, and balancing vision with practical implementation. The Importance of a Business Plan (00:10:15) Stressing the necessity of a detailed business plan for each retreat, including logistics, budget, and marketing. Venue Owner Perspective: Spotting Unprepared Hosts (00:11:35) How venue owners can quickly identify hosts who lack planning and the importance of mutual fit. Booking Timelines & Commitment (00:13:19) Why venues require advance bookings and the risks of last-minute cancellations for both parties. Preparation vs. Spontaneity in Retreat Planning (00:14:56) Contrasting well-prepared hosts with those who approach retreats impulsively, and the consequences of each. Recommended Planning Timeline (00:16:06) Advice to start planning retreats at least a year in advance, with venue outreach 9-12 months before the event. Marketing & Booking Windows (00:18:06) Guidance on when to begin marketing and booking, emphasizing the need for early and thorough preparation. Learning Before Leading: Work Exchanges & Attending Retreats (00:19:49) Encouragement to gain experience by working or attending retreats before hosting your own. Amity’s Ranch Offerings (00:21:06) Amity describes her two ranch properties, their features, and the types of events they host. Closing & Resources (00:23:59) Shannon thanks Amity, recaps key takeaways, and shares where to find more resources and information.
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[FIXED] EP 240 Running Retreats as a Couple: Behind the Scenes at Blisstopia Retreats with Mark and Lana Royce
09/19/2025
[FIXED] EP 240 Running Retreats as a Couple: Behind the Scenes at Blisstopia Retreats with Mark and Lana Royce
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage). Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation. You’ll hear: Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication The pros and cons of living at your retreat property What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market A special offer just for podcast listeners Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats! Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy. Connect with Mark and Lana: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ------------------Timestamps: Introduction (00:00:00) Overview of the podcast’s focus on retreat leadership, guest experiences, and marketing secrets. Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together. Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark. Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic. Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona. Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills. Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes. Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies. Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property. Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide. On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics. Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London. Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats. Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together. Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths. Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts. Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate. Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation. Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles. Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property. Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere. Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site. Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site. Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort. Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode. Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners.
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EP 240 Running Retreats as a Couple: Behind the Scenes at Blisstopia Retreats with Mark and Lana Royce
09/18/2025
EP 240 Running Retreats as a Couple: Behind the Scenes at Blisstopia Retreats with Mark and Lana Royce
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage). Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation. You’ll hear: Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication The pros and cons of living at your retreat property What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market A special offer just for podcast listeners Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats! Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy. Connect with Mark and Lana: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ----------------- Timestamps: Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together. Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark. Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic. Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona. Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills. Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes. Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies. Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property. Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide. On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics. Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London. Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats. Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together. Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths. Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts. Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate. Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation. Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles. Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property. Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere. Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site. Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site. Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort. Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode. Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners.
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EP 239 Beyond the Logo: Branding That Sells Retreats with Kara Hollinger
09/11/2025
EP 239 Beyond the Logo: Branding That Sells Retreats with Kara Hollinger
Your brand is more than a logo—it's the energy, clarity, and trust that sells out your retreats before you even open registration. In this episode, Shannon sits down with Kara Hollinger, founder and creative director of Made Outside, to explore how powerful branding and a cohesive online presence directly influence retreat success. They dig into: Why authenticity is your brand’s biggest asset How storytelling builds trust and drives bookings Common branding mistakes retreat leaders make Aligning your website, social media, and messaging to serve your ideal client How to communicate your value so people are ready to buy Kara also shares a 20% discount on branding packages exclusively for podcast listeners—don’t Connect with Kara: Talk about this podcast and get 20% off The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ---------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. And today I've got an amazing guest on the show that I am so excited to dig into our topic today because I feel like if it wasn't already so very important, it's becoming more and more important every day in the business world that we live in. So welcome, Kara to the show. Kara 00:00:46 Thank you for having me, Shannon. Excited to be here. Shannon 00:00:49 I'm so excited you're here. So Kara Hollinger is on the show. And do you just want to take a moment to tell us, like, who you are? What brought you here? Like, talk to us about who you are. Kara 00:00:59 Definitely. My background is in brand development and design as well as strategy, and I started Made outside. I'm the founder and we specialize in building brands with authenticity, transparency and trust so that the consumer will lean into that purpose and story and then choose you over another competitor. So in most cases, that level of authenticity and storytelling is what drives a consumer into the purchasing ability. And so through design and award winning design, I was able to actually take my intuition and my understanding of marketability and then design and merge that with design, which has been a really great outcome for our clients. And I'm a big supporter of wellness and retreats and leadership. And I think that combining brand purpose into, you know, whether it's a retreat or a leader or even a brand is the key to success in today's market, where it's very convoluted, it's hard to tell who's authentic or who isn't. And that's what we do for all of our clients. And we've had really great success. Shannon 00:02:06 I love this. Okay, so I love this for so many reasons, but especially because just like you mentioned, like if you are not presenting yourself in an authentic but also appealing way specifically to your demographic, then you are missing the boat. Shannon 00:02:24 And I know that a lot of things that you work on is brand strategy and social media presence, as well as website presence. And I think, I think it gets really underrated in the retreat world. I think people just put together a very, in my very humble opinion, a crappy landing page that has maybe a couple of pictures that do not look as good as they should look. and it's just, I mean, I see more and more of them and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, there's an investment that has to be made in this business if you are wanting to it to be a business. And everybody knows that I'm big on like I, I don't do retreats for a hobby. I don't teach people how to do retreats for hobby. I teach you to do it as a business. And part of business in this world is investing in your social media and your website presence and brand strategy. Because I feel like it's got to tell a story. All of this has to tell a story. Kara 00:03:16 Definitely. And the world of templated websites and put something up with, you know, Squarespace or Wix. Those types of solutions do exist, and they can be successful, but only if they're brought into authenticity and something that's unique for you. Because if we all land on something that feels the same or doesn't feel authentic or is just another batch of stock photos, it's going to be really hard to get somebody to invest their time and money to stop what they're doing, fly and try. They're seeking something to go to a retreat they're seeking. And if you can't collectively tell them what they're going to get in a way that feels safe and authentic, then they're going to start to look elsewhere, or they're going to start to overthink the decision and then possibly not juju at all. So getting to the heart of what makes you different and why you started the retreat, or why this solution is going to be good for the person coming. That is the key to all of it. And you can do that. Kara 00:04:10 So simply with just words and visuals, it doesn't have to be a whole big investment. It's really about how you tell that story and then making sure it doesn't look like everyone else that you're seeing out there. Shannon 00:04:22 I couldn't agree more. So I the way I do my retreat bookings is probably a little different than some people. As far as they don't have to talk to me, they don't have to set an appointment with me. They don't have to be pre-screened by me. I just don't run those types of retreats. There are a there's a time and place for that. But I share that with you because people who don't know me at all are literally. I mean, I'll get on my my registration forms. Where did you find me? Google. So they're finding me and they're booking because of my landing page, because of my messaging, because of my image, because of the story, because of how I'm marketing them. And so that's the bulk of my registrations, or pretty close to 6,570%. Shannon 00:05:00 The other 25 to 30% is coming from referral or repeat guest. Or they've been listening to me and following me a long time, whatever. But the bulk of my my retreats are registrations are coming because of how my messaging is reaching them and the way that it's presented. And so when I tell you this is so important, I mean, this is so important. And even if you are someone, a host who, you know, you want to interview them first, they have to apply, they have to whatever. It's still the same thing. They're not even going to fill up that form to set an appointment with you if your messaging doesn't resonate, if it looks like, you know, a junior high schooler, put the whole thing together. You know what I mean? And I see this a lot in the retreat space where it's like, I don't know why my retreats not filling. I'm like, well, we're just going to start here. There's probably a whole lot of other stuff going on. Shannon 00:05:50 But also we're going to start right here. And I love that you talked about trust and authenticity Because I think you and I both know we live in the world now, where if we hear about a company or an organization or anybody we're going to give our money to, where's the first place we look? Nowadays it's social media. You know what I mean? Yes, it's their website, but we usually are on their website, and then we go find them on social media to really validate who they are. What are your thoughts on that. Kara 00:06:17 100% and the consistency between both stops, as well as how you email or solicit, has to be consistent and equally as professional. So somebody reached out to me recently and I thought it was very engaging. But then I went and found them on social and it was filled with stuff that was not authentic. It was really sloppy and done by I, and I immediately bounced. And so that originality is as important and the sales not going to come through just your site. Kara 00:06:45 It is through learning and engaging as well as social hearing, trust building and the social aspect has to reassure them that where they're coming, It's not just safe. Like, am I going to get hurt? But it's safe. Like I'm making the right investment. And is this what I'm looking for? Because when people are out there seeking these types of scenarios, they're actually looking to either feel better, find vision, reset, meet people. a lot of it's around feeling better, but it could be a series of just letting go. It could be. But if you don't show up and understand what you signed up for, or if what you see online is actually authentic to the experience you're going to get when you show up, it's that validation on social that actually confirms a sale. So 100%, and just so everybody knows, a brand is not a logo. A brand is how you show up as a company or as a person in every aspect the photography, your voice, your social, how you, send them the materials to get ready for the retreat, to how you answer the phone. Kara 00:07:53 It's all important. And that brand as a whole needs to look and feel the same across all platforms. And if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be custom. With a big, huge website. It could be a simple website, but the visuals and the storytelling needs to be simple and consistent across all touchpoints. Shannon 00:08:11 Oh, okay, now you're really talking my language because it's not just a one stop. It's not just the website, although that typically is. The starting point is sometimes it might be the social. That's the starting point, but they're quickly going to make their way to the website. They're going to make their way to both. Right. Period. It's 100%. So yeah. So there's multiple touch points. And then also the communication right away. Like if they make contact with you, what does that communication look like when they register. The whole process is part of your brand. And I'm so glad that you are clarifying that it's not a logo. I can't tell you how many times people get caught up in my in what my logo is. Shannon 00:08:40 That's everything. Listen, it's a very small. Believe it or not, part of the picture, right? Kara 00:08:45 It's like one pillar of your body, you know, it's like it's a small piece of the thing. And it's important that it resonates too. But people aren't going to hire you because of your logo. They're going to hire you because of how you feel. And if you have that element of attraction or law of attraction that bring you in, that is 100% aligned on every touchpoint. Because if it's really cool here, then they go somewhere else and they're getting a different experience. You automatically lost trust and that's why the consistency is key. Shannon 00:09:14 Yeah I so agree. So I love this. So we're talking about that. Your website has a look and feel and verbiage and energy to it. So should your social media match. So should your emails show. So should all. Everything should match that look and feel and energy that you are trying to create. And I think sometimes we don't know what that even is or how it should look. Shannon 00:09:37 Unless we work with someone like you or an organization that can help us see that. Because sometimes we just get caught up in the logo or, you know, whatever it is. And we're thinking, I'm going to just do this on Canva. I'm going to create a logo, pick a couple colors, and then I'm done. Kara 00:09:53 Exactly. And I am a big believer in Canva and we use it. We personally don't use it. We set our clients up with Canva templates. Once we're done doing our job so that that consistency piece is key. And you have to think of it as, how you meet anybody. Like you're going to go and say, hi, my name is Karen. Wait outside. But that's not enough. Like, you need to speak of who you are and why you're different in order to get attention. And it's the same for your brand. So like, just because I people like my dress and I dress very simple today, but say that was a compliment. They're not going to hire me because of my dress, they're going to hire me because of the whole picture. Kara 00:10:32 And that's why that logo is it's important that it doesn't, you know, it's legible, it's attractive. It doesn't feel dated, it doesn't feel too trendy. Like those are things that we need to look for for the logo. But that is like third of importance as to the whole picture. And that consistency and transparency is really reigning above the way the logo looks and what your color palette is. And I get asked a lot of times. Like we just see the logo on an updated color palette and I'm like, okay, but then you're going to need these things. And so we have to coach them on. When they put that new logo somewhere, it's not going to spike sales. It's not going to spike the call. What's going to spike that? Is that again I hear you I feel you I see you. That is the piece that is the component that you want to reach your consumers. And if you can figure out how to word that and how to make it feel like that through your brand, your sales will increase and you will get stickier. Kara 00:11:27 And they not only will love it, but then they're going to come and they're going to get the experience. They expected it, and they're going to go home and tell the people, and then they're also going to share it on social. So that viral ness is important in that first step. Shannon 00:11:39 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes. Okay, so I love this because a lot of retreat leaders don't know how to word it. Shannon 00:12:25 They don't. They don't know how to position it. They're like, well, here's here's they hopefully know who they can serve, right? Who their ideal guest is. Hopefully they know that and they know the problem that they can solve or solve for that person, but then they don't know where to go from there. And is that something that you and your group does that they can help? Kara 00:12:42 Conditioning is is everything, to be honest. and we really want that to be stable and established and and Attractive before the visuals ever get involved. because that like, you need to think of not what you like, not your personal style and your personal preference. You need to think of what the person you're wanting to show up needs and what they need to see and feel. And again, you got to know the emotion. Every retreats different. Some are more fitness, some are more wellness, some are more mental health, some are more silent. You know, relaxation. But what are what is their pain point? And then the moment you can position yourself to build trust and authenticity around their pain point, that's the position is like what you do, how you do it and why you're different. Kara 00:13:29 And then if you can say that in a way that's compelling and interesting and attractive, it's, it's a it's a home run, because then all of the visuals back that up. And so then that's why the logo is, is like a piece of it. It's all the messaging and all the little graphics and all the things that really instill and insinuate what it is that makes you different is how that brand look and feel. And consistency starts to build. Because if you just start creating pretty things, you're going to, again, blend in, because there's a lot of pretty things out there. But what you need to do is, is match that message with how it's going to feel. And then the visuals come into play. And I mean, I'm an award winning designer. So for years I thought design was everything. And then as I started to own my own businesses and help thousands of businesses, I realized the positioning and the strategy behind how you're going out and getting the business is the success component. Kara 00:14:21 And then the visuals, I mean, it's it's really amazing once you have that positioning, right, how far the visuals take off and how easy it is, it's like there's no overthinking. You're just doing because you have a North Star that you're following, and then that North Star is solving the pain point and the problem of who you're trying to attract in. Shannon 00:14:41 Yes, I really do believe I mean, I with all, every fiber of my being, I believe one of the biggest struggles for retreat leaders is this it's their marketing message. It's there. It's their brand. It's the look and feel of what they're trying to communicate. And. And I feel like they struggle the most with this. And this is where they get the most stuck. And they just put something together and then wonder why it's not working. And so please hear me when I say this for my listeners. Like, this is where you are stuck. I, I promise this is probably where you're stuck and you're thinking you're not getting sales because of your price, or you're thinking you're not getting sales because of the location or whatever. Shannon 00:15:21 And it's probably 99.9% of the time. It's the branding, and the messaging is falling flat. It's not reaching who it's supposed to reach. It's not consistent. It's not vibrant. It's not the energy you're trying to create. You're not attracting the people you want to attract because it's just not hitting the mark. So I'm so glad you're talking about it. Kara 00:15:40 Yeah, 100%. And again, you can go to Squarespace and build a website over a weekend. And and it could be very successful if you have the positioning and an authentic voice and really great visuals. It's not the methodology of how you do it. There's a lot of ways such as Canva, such as AI, to get there, but you have to start with that base of of being different. Like if you look like everyone else, there's nothing to sink your teeth into that makes you stand out. And especially when you start to advertise. Because if you start putting money into that and then you start soliciting people to land, that ad could be the best looking ad ever. Kara 00:16:20 And it could say, but if they land on your website and then it doesn't feel like that, or you're not answering those questions, they're going to bounce and your bounce rate will be so high because they're going to land on something that doesn't feel safe, authentic, or, you know, matching their pain points. And so that that's why the the visuals kind of come in second or sometimes there. Shannon 00:16:40 I really do think that you're exactly right. And do you have to hire a professional? Maybe not. But here's where I think the struggle is, is they they don't have the skill set if I'm being honest. They just don't like I have to. I have to partner with someone I don't. Just my skill set is what I deliver at the retreat and what I teach people to do. But when it comes to exact marketing branding strategy, I have to bring in someone else for my own stuff. I can see other people's better than my own stuff,...
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Outgrowing Clients & Owning Your Worth as a Retreat Leader with Raisah Bickram
09/09/2025
Outgrowing Clients & Owning Your Worth as a Retreat Leader with Raisah Bickram
In this empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by retreat host and business coach Raisah Salima Bickram for a deeply honest conversation about evolution, alignment, and energetic pricing in the retreat world. Together, they unpack what it means to outgrow clients, roles, and retreat formats—and how to move forward in integrity and confidence. Raisah shares her journey of raising her prices, honoring her worth, and navigating the guilt that can come with letting go of what no longer fits. Shannon and Raisah also dive into: Pricing from a place of energy and impact (not fear) Why fair pricing supports sustainability and transformation Offering scholarships without compromising profitability How to create aligned, soul-led retreats that evolve with you Standing firm in your message—even when trends suggest otherwise Whether you're a seasoned retreat leader or stepping into your first offering, this episode will inspire you to lead from a place of power, purpose, and authenticity About Raisah: Raisah Salima Bickram is a Spiritual Mentor and Business Coach who activates visionary women into their highest leadership and timeline. She is the founder of The Mind, Body + Soul Experience (The MBSX) and has designed and led over 30 retreats worldwide- ranging from intimate day experiences to transformative weekend immersions and international journeys. Her work explores themes of identity, expansion, healing, and the embodiment of sovereign leadership—guiding women to become the CEOs of their own lives. A certified somatic yoga teacher, sound healer, and Reiki Master, Raisah specializes in trauma-informed practices that create safe, sacred spaces for deep alchemy work. Her journey began in September 2020 with a pop-up backyard day retreat in Long Island, NY, where 18 attendees gathered. What started as a local gathering quickly evolved into a global movement. Since then, Raisah has guided retreats across the Caribbean Sea to the Indian Ocean, cultivating a community of clients who are drawn to soul work, sacred play, and exploration. Through her retreats, mentorship, and coaching, she supports women in unlocking their gifts, stepping into aligned leadership, and coming home to their truest selves. Today, Raisah continues to serve as a global retreat leader, business & mindset coach, and yoga teacher, weaving spirituality and strategy to empower women to rise into their fullest expression. Connect with Raisah: Instagram: Special Offer: $200 off her Sedona retreat + free identity activation session for the first 3 bookings The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ------------ Timestamps by PodSqueeze: Guest Introduction: Raisa (00:01:34) Raisa introduces herself, her work as a business coach, spiritual mentor, and retreat leader. Defining Outgrowing Clients, Spaces, and Seasons (00:02:32) Discussion on what it means to outgrow clients, spaces, and seasons in business. The Discomfort and Necessity of Growth (00:03:00) Raisa uses the analogy of outgrowing shoes to explain the discomfort and necessity of growth. Letting Go and Aligning with New Clients (00:04:26) Exploring the importance of letting go of old clients and attracting those aligned with your current value. Fears Around Outgrowing and Raising Prices (00:06:58) Shannon discusses common fears: hurting clients and fear of not replacing them when raising prices. Accessibility, Pricing, and Scholarships (00:08:31) Raisa and Shannon discuss making retreats accessible, pricing for value, and offering scholarships. Energetic Reciprocity and Industry Impact (00:14:15) Shannon emphasizes the harm of undercharging and the importance of energetic exchange in pricing. Energetic Alignment and Personal Pricing (00:16:15) Discussion on how pricing should feel energetically aligned and unique to each leader. Evolving Offerings and Audience (00:18:19) How evolving retreat experiences naturally calls in a different audience over time. Authenticity and Co-Creation in Business (00:19:40) Raisa discusses the importance of alignment and authenticity in creating retreat experiences. Magnetizing Your Ideal Clients (00:21:29) How being rooted in your message and expression attracts the right clients. Staying True to Your Vision (00:22:31) Shannon shares an example of a retreat leader staying true to her unique retreat format. Leadership, Trust, and Not Diluting Your Offer (00:24:19) Raisa talks about sovereign leadership, authenticity, and trusting your vision. Setting Boundaries for Retreat Structure (00:26:44) Advice on not allowing partial attendance at retreats to maintain integrity of the experience. Raisa’s Upcoming Retreats and Offerings (00:27:10) Raisa shares details about her upcoming Sedona retreat and her new Retreat Mastery program. Special Offers and How to Connect (00:29:44) Information on special offers for listeners and how to connect with Raisa online. Closing and Call to Action (00:30:57) Shannon wraps up the episode, encourages reviews, and shares where to find more resources.
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EP 238 Beyond the Retreat: Hybrid Business Models for Maximum Impact with Alison Katschkowsky
09/04/2025
EP 238 Beyond the Retreat: Hybrid Business Models for Maximum Impact with Alison Katschkowsky
Can you build a retreat business that isn’t bound by location—and actually expands your impact? In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon chats with long-time health and fitness expert Alison Katschkowsky about building a hybrid retreat business model that combines the power of in-person transformation with the scalability of online programs. Alison shares her 30+ year journey from brick-and-mortar fitness to digital expansion, and how she now helps other entrepreneurs add retreats as a powerful layer to their business—without overhauling their structure. They dive into: The power of hybrid models (and how they outlive fads) How retreats can enhance your brand, not distract from it Creative ways to offer transformation in both in-person and online formats Alison’s behind-the-scenes plan for her luxe Amalfi Coast retreat If you’ve been wondering how to blend the best of both worlds—connection and scale—this episode is your blueprint. Retreats aren’t just an event—they’re a business growth strategy. Connect with Alison https://thealisonk.com/meet-alison The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | -------------------------- Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Today I am so excited to say that not only do I have an amazing guest, but she's becoming an amazing friend and soon to be business partner, which we cannot wait to talk about that we're going to drop some little, little hints about what we have in store. But Alison, welcome to the show again. Alison 00:00:49 It is always a good day in my world when I can talk to you, Shannon. So it's. Shannon 00:00:52 All good. Amen. I feel the same. So, Allison, why don't you just refresh for those who maybe did hear your show or just let people know who you are and what brought you to this point. Alison 00:01:05 My name is Allison Koski, and you don't have to say that. For those of you listening, most people just say Allison K. But just so you know, when you look at my last name, the c h is silent. So it's really just Katz Koski. So it's a little bit easier to say, but Allison K works. So so and I my background is in health and fitness. I've been in the health and fitness industry for over 30 years. I was a very successful brick and mortar business owner for a lot of those years, until I started going online about ten years ago. That's about when I started doing retreats. It was probably 2013, 2014, something in there when it was really still a very new concept. And so what I figured out was, is that the big question back then was, is do we need to just now that online is becoming big and everyone was moving their business online. It was like, you know, well, we're just going to go in this direction. Alison 00:01:56 And so my argument was always, you don't have to choose one. You can do both. And then when the pandemic hit, everybody went online. And now what's interesting is, is that everybody's going back to adding some kind of in-person, because you and I are both seeing this in the retreat space. It's just it's blowing up there. Everybody and their mother is thinking about retreats now, which is great. It's great for us. It's great for the industry. But but I just think there is there is a lot of opportunity there for so many people. Shannon 00:02:24 I love this. One of the things that Alison and I talked about before we recorded is, is kind of the topics which Alison and I could spend, honestly, you guys weeks on this podcast talking about business and retreats and, and all of that good stuff. but one of the things I thought would be really relevant is a hybrid model. And Alison, you are the queen of this. You help people build this. So tell me what that looks like for the retreat industry. Shannon 00:02:49 What does that even mean when I when we say hybrid model? Alison 00:02:51 Before I get to that, let me just kind of give my little analogy when I talk about the hybrid model, when we think about a hybrid model, what are we really talking about? We're really talking the best example I can offer for people because I'm a big analogy person. The best example I can offer for people is think about the hybrid car. What is the hybrid car? Do the hybrid car allows you to use gas or electricity? Right. So it's both. And so one of the selling points is because it's a hybrid model, the car can go further. You can get further on a tank of gas. Therefore it's the maintenance is better right. It will cost you less in gas in the long run. So you see there, not the car. Literally. There's no choice made as to whether or not you go one or the other. The same thing is true when we do the hybrid business model in our business. Alison 00:03:39 Now back in 2012, 2013, 2014, when the online space was really blowing up, this is when social media was really becoming the thing. you know, a lot of people were starting to think this is kind of the direction that I want to go with my business. And in my industry, it was blowing up like crazy. Then what happened when the pandemic hit It is that everybody went online. And the good news is, is that we could go online because it was available. But the bad news is, is that people sort of got away from being in person. And now what we're seeing because it's 2025, is that really the best combination? The best plan is to combine both. And one of the things that I started doing back when the online space was really getting big was that I started slowly dipping my toe in the water of online. And what did that look like? It looked like offering like online challenges, like connecting with people online. And then of course, when the pandemic hit, it was like you had to go all in. Alison 00:04:38 And for me and a lot of other people in my industry, I had to basically start over. Basically my business as I knew it went out the window, but it was time for me to put my money where my mouth was and really make it work. And that's what I did. And that's one of the things that I really teach my clients how to do today, because you don't have to choose. That's the beauty of it. Shannon 00:04:57 That is the beauty of it is that you don't have to choose, Jews, especially today. Because you're right, Alison. You know, years ago, I mean, well, to be honest with you, years ago, the online business was not, you know, obviously what it is today, but you kind of felt like you had to fall into one or the other categories. So you're you're absolutely right. Tell me. Alison 00:05:15 there are a lot of people today that still feel like you have to fall into one or the other, because these are conversations I have every day with people when they say, well, I can't really be myself online, I can't really. Alison 00:05:25 It just doesn't feel the same. I'm not good at it. Or they'll say about in person, well, that's just not really what I do. This is what I'm used to. And this is kind of the conundrum that we found ourselves in. Shannon 00:05:36 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yeah totally agree. I hear that all the time. As well as just people saying, well, my business is online, they're not going to want to meet in person, or the other way around. Shannon 00:06:26 You know, everything I do is in person. So you're right. It is. Sometimes we get pigeonholed and we just assume that it has to be in that that way. Can you? Can you give us an example of maybe somebody you've worked with and like what this looks like in real life when somebody is considering it a hybrid model? Alison 00:06:41 Well, I mean, there are actually lots of examples. But one example pretty much right now is I have a client right now who has an in-person, primarily in-person business. This is how people work with her. They come to see her, they book an appointment with her. She has some online resources, like she has an e-book and she has some other things, but it's really hardly the same thing as having an experience with her. And one of the things that we're actually working on right now is building out a retreat piece to go with her in-person business. Now, that might not seem like a typical hybrid model, but what she has to do is literally build an online presence to go with that in-person offering. Alison 00:07:21 Because in order to offer retreats, if you have a successful in-person business, is is that you have to be always reaching more people. So this is something else that we hear a lot of people say where they say, well, I don't know that my people would want to go on a retreat. I don't know if my people would want to do something in person. And so my question is always, how do you know that they don't? And so what we have to always ask ourselves is, what are we doing to consistently put ourselves out there and have us meet more people and expand our audience? And that's really what it's all about too. Shannon 00:07:53 I'm biased, of course, but for me, if there's anyone that I trust and I work with in any capacity or just consume their information. I would love to fucking get in person. You know what I mean? Like, whether it's a conference or a mastermind or a retreat, whatever it is. I mean, I don't, you know. Yes, there are I'm sure there are people in this world who are incredibly introverted. Shannon 00:08:14 And just like that just makes their skin crawl. But for the most part, I think there's a good audience for anybody doing anything online that they could create an in-person experience. Alison 00:08:26 Yeah, and the energy is just different when you're in person. Like, think about it, when you go to an in-person event, it's very different than if you're on a, say, a zoom call or a group networking session or something online where you see everybody's faces and they're just, you know, squares on the screen. You can still talk to people because I think human connection can still be meaningful that way. But it's not the same thing from being in person. Shannon 00:08:49 I agree, I agree, and I'm grateful. Right? We're grateful that we have these online tools that we can do these things. But I'll be honest with you. so I belong to Genius Network. It's an incredible Networking group. It's really a servant group. That's just incredible. And every month we meet either online or in person, you can choose one or the other. Shannon 00:09:07 Right. So that it fits your schedule. And I'm super. I hope they don't hear this. But the online I like minimize it. I'm doing other work. It's still just as good information. It's just badass. But I'm over here multitasking. I'm answering text messages whatever. The in person lights my fire so much that when I get back home I am like, bring it! We are. We're fixing to make some shit happen. And so yes, am I grateful that we have the tools available? Absolutely. do do I think, though, that we get more or at least a very vibrant, different, action packed energy from in person? Yes, I do. Alison 00:09:47 Yeah. And I just think that to piggyback on what you just said and to sort of finish my thought from before is that you really want to think about the hybrid model from two vantage points, really. And this is what I have found works the best with most people. It's like the example that I just gave of my current client, who has the in-person business, and we're adding a retreat. Alison 00:10:05 And so you might be sitting there thinking, well, that's too impersonal elements. Well, you're right, it is. But she's also building an online presence to go with it. That can still be considered a hybrid model. The other way to look at it would be if you primarily serve your clients online, whether that's a membership or an online program or a mastermind or whatever group coaching program. And then you insert some type of in-person retreat experience, whether it be a private retreat, a small group retreat, a boutique retreat, or even a small group summit, right then that is also can be considered a hybrid model that the advantage, the commonality with both of those is, is that you've taken your expertise and you're monetizing it in a number of different ways, and that is really what it's about for the future. Shannon 00:10:51 Amen. Hallelujah. Oh my goodness. You're speaking my language. I'm hoping that there's people listening to this that either have been considering retreats or are in the retreat business because you're right either side and are thinking creatively how they can add that other aspect. Shannon 00:11:05 So if you are hosting retreats, how can you add on that online aspect, which, by the way, continues to support the people that you are working with or who've showed up, right? And then if you're online, how can you incorporate in-person events? I mean, I know you and I are like, duh. This is a no brainer, but I'm hoping that there's like creative juices that are flowing for people on either side going, ooh, I could do X, and X doesn't have to look like what Allison does, and it doesn't have to look like what I do. Alison 00:11:33 Like X could be a number of different ways. Shannon 00:11:35 Yeah. And I love that you're like it could be a summit. It could be a mastermind. It could be a gathering. It could be a retreat. It could be look, it could be whatever. and same thing for the online portion of it. It could be coaching, it could be group coaching. It could be mastermind. It could be, Yeah. Shannon 00:11:51 I mean, it literally could be all the same names that you use for the other side. It's just structured differently. in the content is provided, however, it is that you like to provide content, So. Alison 00:12:00 Yeah. And you just. Well I think too. For people listening, I think what you want to always keep in mind is, is that the object if you're an entrepreneur now going into the future, the object is really about your personal brand. It's about what are you about? And what do you stand for? What, what are you for and what are you against? And it's like when you look at being able to offer a number of different ways that people can access you. So in a way that, I mean, people could come into you from your website, from a newsletter, from a challenge of some type, from an online program that you're offering. But don't discount those in-person opportunities, too, because there's a number of different ways that you can monetize all of what you do. Alison 00:12:42 And then that sets you up not only financially better for the future, but it puts you in a position where you're always meeting people. And when you're a business owner, you can never know too many people. Shannon 00:12:53 Okay, so I love that we are talking financials a little bit because as people who have listened to my podcast know, No, I'm in the retreat business, not the retreat hobby. And so Allison and I and our good friend Aaron now daily have conversations about this. And also hint, hint. This will be part of what we launch. And I think we're launching it in October. October. Yes. So stay tuned. But yeah, we're launching it in October. But it will be happening in 2026. Anyhow, we're all about how can we increase our business and our profit? Totally. and this again, is to me a no brainer if you're doing really well on the online space. Dude, add that that in-person space and it just contributes to your bottom line and vice versa. Shannon 00:13:42 You're still serving the same people. It's still in your genre. It's all connected. It's just a different way of delivering the information and adding more profit to your bottom line. Alison 00:13:53 Yeah. And also, I think to what I just want to say, again, for people listening is, is that it really? You know, I don't want to make it sound like we're just sitting here counting money and money bags. It's not about greed at all. You know, it's really about being able to serve at a much higher level. And when you're when you're able to offer somebody a transformative experience, like something in person, like a retreat or a group event or something, you're just adding massive value for them and you're adding massive value for yourself. And it's a win for everybody. Shannon 00:14:24 Yes. See? Speaking the same language win win, win, win win for everybody. I just love that so much. The other thing that we kind of talked about real briefly is the business logistics side, right. So whatever your your LLC is or your company or your formation, you've started it off at X, it's, you know, online or it's retreats. Shannon 00:14:45 There's no need at the beginning to, to do anything differently. Right. I mean, Alison, you were just talking about this. Tell us about your journey, about how that was and then now what you are thinking of doing in the future because of. Alison 00:14:55 Yeah, when I, when I first started doing retreats, I got to be honest. I I'll tell you, because my background is in health and fitness. I thought it was going to be a fitness weekend. That was kind of my initial vision was to do these boot camps, these workout camps. And I'll tell you, and this is probably a really bad analogy, but I'm just going to say it my, my, my inspiration for doing it was watching programs like The Biggest Loser, where people would just go somewhere and they'd stay for a few days or. And in that case, it was a lot longer. And that's not really what I had in mind, but it was taking people out of town somewhere where we could really focus on themselves. Alison 00:15:30 And since at the time I was 100% working in fitness, operating a very successful small studio with a small team, I thought, this is a no brainer. This is a great way to give people kind of a family type experience, you know? And so over the years, that vision kind of morphed into something a little more boutique like as I started getting more involved and interested in personal development and, you know, daily self-care strategies. I've always loved to travel. And so I sort of found a niche in providing what I like to call a futuristic, visionary experience. One of the things that I use in all of my retreat programs is the use of a compass. I talk all about the direction that you're moving, the direction of your future, being aligned with your future self, etc., etc. so that's a lot of what we do. But now, back then, all I was thinking about was offering. This would be a really fun experience to offer for my clients. I wasn't even...
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EP 237 True North Leadership: Building Profitable Men’s Retreats with Brent McCann
08/28/2025
EP 237 True North Leadership: Building Profitable Men’s Retreats with Brent McCann
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Brent McCann, founder of the True North Retreat, to talk about the rising tide of men’s retreats—and what it takes to make them successful and sustainable. Brent shares how he transitioned from corporate HR into the retreat space, the lessons learned from his first Sedona retreat (including the power of trusting the process), and how he’s now crafting a profitable, aligned retreat business. They dive into: Why men book differently than women—and how to speak directly to them Pricing strategies that work (and how Brent raised his profit margin from 1% to 30%) How to design high-impact experiences that create transformation and build community What it looks like to scale retreats with intention, alignment, and purpose Brent's upcoming True North Men's Retreat in Austin (Oct 23–26) is designed for men at a crossroads—ready to step out of the noise, zip-line into clarity, and walk away reconnected to purpose. Connect with Brent: https://truenorthretreat2025.com/ The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | --------------------------------------- Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. I am super stoked about my guest today. Before we started recording, I told our guest that I don't have enough of them on my show or enough of them. You know that I see in the retreat space. So welcome Brent to the show. I'm so excited you're here. Brent 00:00:44 Thank you. Shannon, it's my pleasure to be here. I appreciate the time. Shannon 00:00:48 Yes. So Brent is a retreat host. And what I meant by there's not enough of them, or at least I don't see enough of them. And so maybe it's just not on my radar as much as it should be, is that there's not enough men hosting men retreats, in my opinion, and Brent hosts men retreats that look absolutely fantastic. Shannon 00:01:06 But I don't want to take away too much of your thunder, Brent. So why don't you just tell us all about who you are, what you do, and what brought you to where you are now? Brent 00:01:13 Absolutely. Thank you. So, I'm a previous corporate, employee. I was a, you know, a mid senior level HR leader for about ten years working in corporate America. Before that, I was in the car wash industry working as an operations leader. So for for like 15, 20 years, I was working for the man. And I got to the point where, last year, well, about two years ago, I went to an event out in Austin and I was really moved by it. And in that moment, sitting with 100 people, I looked to my friend and I said to him, I said, listen, man, I'm going to do this someday. I want to do this kind of thing. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't know what to expect. Brent 00:01:53 But, what ended up working out was that, you know, last year, you know, I made a pretty good deal on a real estate thing that I was doing on the side. And about Q3, Q4 of last year, I had this epiphany that like, if I wanted to, I could probably take a year, year and a half off and see if I could grow this, this retreat business into something. Shannon 00:02:15 And yes. Brent 00:02:16 Yeah. So it was really, it was exciting and nerve wracking at the same time. Right? You know, it's like, I have no idea what I don't know. yep. But I trust. Right? You know, I trusted and, I actually did a, I went to this breathwork, certification thing, and I came back from that in December of last year, and I was all of a sudden I was in a meditation after doing a breathwork. And it was like I felt like, you know, the universe just zapped into my head and was like, you should do a men's retreat. Brent 00:02:47 And I'm like, okay. Speaker 3 00:02:51 I didn't think about that. But, you know, I was like, all right. Like, let's, let's look at this. Brent 00:02:55 And, and but I didn't know where, you know, like I had coordinated things in corporate HR. Before, you know, corporate retreat type things, but not in this space. And I felt this, this urge to go to Sedona. And I had never been to Sedona before. I knew nothing about it. Literally had no idea where it even was. But I was like, okay, that's cool. Like, let's go. and, you know, six months later, you know, I had my first retreat. So, you know, it's been a journey. You know, it's, it's a it's a gift. It's really what it comes down to. So, you know, I don't wanna get too long winded on it, but I. Shannon 00:03:28 Know that this is great. Okay, so there's so many things that happened just in this first snippet. Shannon 00:03:34 the first thing is, is, like, you definitely received your download because for you to have a download that says, go to Sedona and you've never even been there or didn't even know where it is. that's definitely a download. It's not usually what I would recommend unless it's a download. Right. Because, you know, we we typically want to host at least our first retreat. and I'm even a fan of saying all retreats in places we've been to at least one time. However, there are definitely situations like this where something is speaking to you and you've just got to follow it. And I love this so much. Let's talk about the fact. Steve, here's the thing, guys. What we're going to talk about today is Brent's recap of his first retreat, and then now how he's going to learn from that retreat and go forward. Because I think a lot of people, Brent, they think my first retreat, I'm going to make $1 million and it's going to be knocked out of the park. Shannon 00:04:26 And I also think there are a lot of people out there making it sound like you can do that, like you can just all of a sudden be an instant success. But the truth is that there's no such thing in any industry. I don't care what it is. If corporate, small business, large business, it doesn't matter what it is. You're typically not an instant success unless you consider the learning, the success, which I do. Right? Because that's what those first few retreats are. At least the first 1 to 3 are learning experiences and their investments for future ones. So I would love, Brent, for you to tell us what happened on your first retreat and what was the biggest downloads and learnings you got from it? Brent 00:05:04 Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the the goal here was just to break even. You know, I, I, you know, I remember listening to episodes that you had shared and even in your book where it says like don't go too far away. Brent 00:05:16 And I'm like, oh my God. Like I live in Western New York. I'm going to this, this place I've never even been to. Right. So, you know, like, I booked a flight and I got out there two weeks later and I scoped it out, and and things just really aligned very well. but really, you know, what I learned from this was in the retreats, probably. And as with anything new, who you're coming up against is not the people that I was advertising to or, you know, my family. I was coming up against myself. You know. Shannon 00:05:47 This? Yes. Brent 00:05:49 Vulnerable space to be in, financially vulnerable, energetically vulnerable. And, you know, and to know that, like, not everybody catches the, you know, picks up what you're throwing down there. Right? Like, people are like, what the hell are you talking about? You're doing this, you know? So, yeah, I really I invested in a program. that was okay. Brent 00:06:11 Like, I spent a lot of money on it, but it was. It had a pretty good return for me, at least, to get me familiar, because I didn't have, like, an Instagram following. I didn't have a LinkedIn following. I, I'm not on Facebook that often. So how do you do this? Right? and that was part of facing off with myself is like overcoming this limit, these limiting beliefs that I need those things in order for that to happen. And, I'll be honest with you, I was going to I was going to throw it out, like I that got to be I had one person sign up. It was the end of March. the, the, the agreements that I signed were coming into the point were like, okay, you're you're within 90 days, you're within 45 days. You need to, you know, make sure you get a deposit. You're on the hook for this. And, I just didn't see it happening and I just totally I gave up, and I was going to take the website down. Brent 00:07:03 And I remember thinking, you know, I've got it. I'm going to take the website down, on like Thursday or no, it was like a week before. And then all a sudden I'm like, I'll just wait. I'll wait a little bit. I'm going to have this meeting with a friend and then we'll see what happens. Well, before this meeting with my friend, I'm making breakfast one morning and I get this text alert and I'm like, what the hell is this from? And I look, and somebody had actually registered for the event like a straight cold registration. And all of a sudden I had this moment and it's like, wait a minute, maybe that vision from a couple months ago is true. Maybe this like, maybe there is something out there that's matching what people need or what men need, and maybe I should try a different route. And so it brought up this sense of inspiration. and then I signed up, 4 or 5 other people within two weeks. Shannon 00:07:49 Like it just. Shannon 00:07:50 Wow. Brent 00:07:51 Yeah. Yeah, it was really powerful. so, you know, from that lens, like, I learned, like, if I try to force it, it's going to be way more difficult than if I just, you know, take the right action and allow it to kind of manifest or create itself and create the outcomes. Yes. And then also, you know, even just from the the overall experience, like I had a whole budget thing written out, I, I'm a numbers guy. So I was looking at a lot of that, and, and trusting the process that, you know, like I, I knew my numbers well enough so I could speak to things confidently. I knew it was going to be within like $500 plus or minus, so I was okay with that. and then and then really the, the self-efficacy of realizing, right, like in the midst of the retreat, realizing I'm doing it like, wow, this is really happening, right? Seeing other people's lives start to change in a matter of four days. Brent 00:08:44 And then afterwards, that feeling of, you know what? I can do this. And now after the response that I got from them, I'm like, I think I should do this more. And so that's what led me to to building into this second retreat now. Shannon 00:08:58 Okay, Brent. First of all, congratulations. You've done your first retreat and in my opinion, it was a huge success. Also, I want to harp on a little bit or not harp on. That's not the right word, but I want to just celebrate. I guess, again, this mindset shift that you had, because that's really what sounds like happened when you got that second, that second booking. I'm a big fan, I tell. I like to tell people who are who are new in the business that if you got one booking and it's an aligned booking, right, it's you got one aligned booking, then there's others out there. You're just either not speaking the right language, taking the right action, etc. and so forth. Shannon 00:09:37 I also like to say, now if you've got none, then we need to revisit what what your words are and who you're talking to and all the other stuff. But if you get one, at least aligned one. The other thing is you said something really powerful. My opinion is you can manifest and attract and allow all you want, but if it doesn't have action assigned with it, then it's just daydreaming to me. And daydreaming is fine, but it won't equate to what you just said happened in your mindset shift. So another congratulations, because that's really cool. So yay. First retreat. Nailed it. Nailed the mindset shift. Now coming out of that, and also, I am so glad that you got to see some of the transformation for other people through the space that you're holding, because that's what you're going to hold on to, Brent, as you continue to grow your business, because now you're going to based upon our conversation before we start recording, you're going to build this into a profitable machine. Shannon 00:10:37 And in order to do that, you're going to run into more obstacles. The mindset is going to get a little Willy Wonka. And we'll talk about that and and your plans. But but you're just you will naturally. That's what happens when we are on the precipice of growing big. But you're going to hold on to that whole like, I saw what this does. I know the value of what this is like. I'm just I'm a big believer that we can have impact and income. They don't have to be exclusive. And so anyway, so share with me now like what are we doing to make sure that it's profitable. What are some changes or what are some things that you're doing. Brent 00:11:15 100%. You know, like I there were things that we did in like Sedona, an inexpensive place to be. Like, I didn't know that. I know that now, you know, and there's there's times a year to be there and times of year that you don't want to be there. And, you know, so what I really took away from this, like I kind of did like what I call like an after action report. Brent 00:11:33 Right. So when I was in the military, after every mission, you look back and you say, okay, what was it that we did? What did we do? Well, what could we do differently? Right. So after doing this, what I really looked at was like some things were they didn't really have the impact, you know, like. so for example like we went on like this Jeep tour, like it was nice, it was fun. But like the guys weren't raving about it, it was just more of like nice to have now the zipline tour. Everybody loved it. Even those that were afraid of it and overcame themselves there. They loved it. So, you know, when I look at that, you know, I think about like, okay, because part of my modus operandi is every day we're going to do something off site. So like we go to hotels, I like to stay in nicer places. so we're going to stay at, like, a nice hotel. Brent 00:12:17 We're going to go out, we're going to do something off site. We're going to come back during the day. We're going to train, you know, have teachings, all that kind of thing. And then we're going to go out for nice dinners at the same time. And what I realized was like, as I, as I build into Austin, like, I don't need to, like we're going to do ziplines. Like for sure. Right. Like that's going to be awesome. But like I looked at like, oh, maybe we could do horseback riding and we could do this and we could do that. And I'm like, but does it need to happen? Right? So like when I look at it and I realize something's going to cost $2,000, but is it really going to align with what I'm teaching? Is it going to make an impact and help drive home what we're learning? Right? Or is it, you know, kind of like how, you know, you talk about like, yeah, people want to know like the activities, but they're looking for the feeling. Brent 00:13:02 They're looking for the transformation more than anything else. Right? So now as I look at it, what I'm looking for now is, is what what what are the critical few that are going to really land, right. And you know, for me ziplines that that's something that lands because even if you love them, you're still going to get a rush of adrenaline. There's still going to be some type of emotional response in our body. and you know just I like to have something a little bit. That's, that's specific to the area too. Right. So like when we go out to dinner we're not going to like KFC. We're not going to McDonald's. We're going to go to nice places that are in the area. and, and you know, one I want I want the guys to feel good. Right. So yeah, as I look at that now and then I look at how I'm pricing it, like I knew I was underpriced. I didn't know how much until I was actually on the retreat. Brent 00:13:52 And I remember, like, we rented like this big SUV and we're driving to this, I don't even know what we were doing, but I remember driving with all the guys in the truck, and and I'm like, this is like a $5,000 retreat. Like, they're like, I would pay. Not because I'm biased, but like, I would pay $5,000 for this. And I was charging, like 335. Yeah. So yeah, as I look at this now, now I've created, you know, the packages that range between 3500 to 5000. and then I'm adding the value. Right. Like, it's it's all dependent on what value you want out of it. And then also with what I've reduced from, from an expense standpoint. Now that margin went from really, like, maybe 1% to now I'm targeting more like 20 to 30% margin. And that. Shannon 00:14:38 Gives me, yeah. Brent 00:14:39 Bigger wiggle room and confidence to step into it because I know what it's worth. Shannon 00:14:44 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. Shannon 00:14:49 I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes, yes, I noticed this. So Brent and I were talking before we started recording about. it's just my philosophy. Not all hosts are like this, but I'm not a discount person. I'm just. I absolutely am anti discount. And I love though, Brent. How you. I mean, I really loved how you built the value into each offering. So it's kind of like okay here's your first soft touch point you which includes this. And it's you know, 3500 or whatever it was. Shannon 00:15:54 This touch point includes these extra things, and it's 45, you know what I mean? Like, I just I absolutely love that I think that you are positioning yourself in such a way that it is going to be beautifully aligned for the guest to get what they want out of it, and then you to feel energetically aligned in a financial way for what you're offering. Right? Yeah, yes. Because the ones that are paying more, they're getting more from you. and so it's it's a really beautiful exchange. So it sounds like you're totally aligned. Tell me the difference about planning for Sedona, which, by the way, I'm really glad to hear that you at least went and visited the spot before you hosted there. Brent 00:16:33 So yeah. Shannon 00:16:33 Yeah, that really helps. And anybody who's listening, if you're planning a retreat and you've never been there, you've I'm telling you, you've got to make a site visit. It just makes all the difference in the world. and it just really does. But tell me...
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Why Most Retreat Leaders Fail to Sell Out — and How to Fix It with Erin Haag
08/26/2025
Why Most Retreat Leaders Fail to Sell Out — and How to Fix It with Erin Haag
Retreat not filling up? You’re not alone—and it’s probably not your price. In this power-packed episode, Shannon Jamail is joined by pricing and profit strategist Erin Haag to break down the real reasons most retreats fail to sell out—and exactly how to fix it. From outdated marketing approaches to misaligned pricing strategies, they unpack the blind spots that hold retreat leaders back from profitability. Erin shares her proven formula for pricing retreats using math over emotion—and the key profit margins every retreat business should aim for. Shannon and Erin also talk about why transformation sells more than price, the importance of daily sales activity, and why being in the right rooms with high-achieving peers can change everything. PLUS: Erin shares a free resource for retreat leaders—her Top 5 Tips for Hosting Profitable Retreats. Erins Top Five Tips: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: |
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EP 236 From Sold-Out to Profitable: Mastering Retreat Marketing & Loyalty with Leni Cavazos
08/21/2025
EP 236 From Sold-Out to Profitable: Mastering Retreat Marketing & Loyalty with Leni Cavazos
Most retreat leaders aren’t just undercharging… they’re under-profiting. In this powerhouse episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Leni Cavazos—event strategist, loyalty marketing expert, and former Ritz-Carlton powerhouse turned retreat business mentor. Together, they unpack why up to 90% of retreats aren’t actually profitable—and how to shift that. You’ll learn: Why retreat leaders must treat their business like a business (not a hobby) What loyalty marketing actually is (and how to start it from day one) The biggest pricing mistake even experienced leaders make Why your transformation container is worth way more than a fancy vacation How alumni can become your secret sales team This episode is a must-listen for retreat leaders ready to stop surviving and start scaling. 🎁 Bonus: Leni shares how to get her free eBook on selling retreats to past clients. About Leni: Leni Cavazos is the leading authority on building 6-figure retreat businesses. With over 18 years in global marketing, brand strategy, and high-level event production, she’s behind the success of over 100 retreats worldwide. Leni teaches coaches and entrepreneurs how to scale with strategy, precision, and purpose—no guesswork, no fluff. Free Offer: Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats With Past Clients Ebook Connect with Leni: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | --------------------------------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. This is Shannon, and today I'm so excited to have a fellow retreat professional on the podcast today. Our paths have definitely crossed in different ways, and now we get to connect in person, sort of. We'll say sort of because we are recording on zoom. But welcome, Lenny to the show. Leni 00:00:45 Thank you so much for having me. Shannon, I'm so excited to be able to talk more about retreats. Shannon 00:00:50 Me too. I mean, anytime I get to get with another professional and talk business, it's like, I don't know, Christmas. It's just so, so fun. Shannon 00:00:58 So, This is Lenny Cavazos, and I want you to first just start off by telling us about yourself. What brought you to this space? I don't know, just a little bit about who you are. Leni 00:01:08 Oh, yes. Of course. So I started actually in the space of events many, many, many years ago. I started when I was 16 years old working at events, and it was absolutely amazing. I love being in person with people because of the connection that you can create. And that led me actually to move to the Middle East. I was living in Dubai for six years, and I was working at the Ritz-Carlton, where I rebranded nine restaurants and the spa, and I made it snow in the desert. And it was absolutely wonderful. And one of the pieces that actually is going to be very big in our conversation today is loyalty marketing. So after I was at the Ritz-Carlton, I actually moved to Marriott's corporate office for Middle Eastern Africa, and I was working in a team that launched Marriott Bonvoy. Leni 00:01:54 So for those who do not know what Marriott Bonvoy is, it's a loyalty program for people to who stay at Marriott hotels. Basically, the more you stay at their hotels, the more the rewards you get. From free breakfast to room upgrades to invitations to crazy, crazy events. And I was in charge of running some of those crazy, crazy events for loyal customers. So I hosted a dinner in front of the Giza pyramids, at dinner in the Summer Palace of the King of Saudi Arabia, and it was a private concert for Craig, David, you name it. But the main focus of this was really to create connection with our customers, because loyal customers spend 67% more than non loyal customers. Now, when the pandemic hit and everything changed, I was trapped in my apartment on the 52nd floor with a beautiful view, but I could not leave unless I had a permission slip from the police. And that was the moment where I decided I wanted to do something different. I was like, I do not want people making decisions for myself. Leni 00:02:58 So I move myself back to Mexico, my hometown, and I actually started attending retreats. Right. So something that brings me, I guess, a little bit out of a lot of other retreat coaches into this space is that a lot of coaches started because they were hosting retreats, and then they start teaching how to host your own treats. My story was not like that. I started attending retreats that changed my life, and then I started creating connections with those retreat leaders. And there was this very specific retreat for women that I attended that literally changed who I was, my life. It got me to reconnect with my femininity. It was just beautiful. So at the end of the retreat, I asked them, so when is the next one I want to bring my mom, my friends. And they were like, no, we're not having a next one because we didn't even break even. How is this possible? You had 13 women at your retreat. And then I realized there was a big problem in the transformational world. Leni 00:03:59 And because I. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right? Shannon 00:04:04 Yes. Leni 00:04:06 And then, because I am very curious, I couldn't help myself. And I started interviewing retreat leaders to figure out what was going on out there, to figure out what was the missing link from creating transformation, serving people, to actually running your retreats like a business? Shannon 00:04:23 Yes. Leni 00:04:25 Big, big difference. So after interviewing over 100 retreat leaders and I keep doing a lot of market research as I go, I've started this over five years ago. I can tell you that over 70% of retreat leaders do not profit from their retreats. And that's just so sad. Shannon 00:04:41 I would guess, to be quite honest with you, that it's even higher than that. I really would, I would, I would guess it's closer to 80 or 90% based on the people that I talked to as well. So and it is it's absolutely to me it's devastating, but it's also such a disservice. Leni 00:04:57 Yes, I always tell them, like, do you want to go back to your 9 to 5 job instead of actually doing what you're meant to be doing in the world, because you don't treat your business like a business and you treat it like a hobby, you know, I'm here to serve, and it doesn't matter if I don't make any money. Leni 00:05:13 And the reality is that retreats takes so much time and effort and energy, and there's so transformational. Like people change their lives when they go to retreats. Why wouldn't you also profit from it? Shannon 00:05:24 I totally, totally agree with you. this is you're speaking my language on so many levels. I struggle greatly with anybody who's in this industry and and saying, you know, that they're either a not making a profit, that they don't want to make a profit. That's somebody who just is like, okay, we're not even in the same we're not even in the same city, let alone, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's just not even whatever. because you do you get a lot of that language in this, in this business, in this industry of like profits are evil or money is evil or any kind of bullshit like that. I just don't play that game. but then the flip side of that part is they just don't know how to run a business, right? So there's the attitude and you can't fix attitude. Shannon 00:06:07 They've got to figure that part out. They've got to do them inner work. They've got to figure out what their money obstacles are, whatever that is. The other part of it is they just don't know how to make a profit. And that can be fixed, right? That can be learned. That can be taught. and it sounds like that's something that you help people do. Leni 00:06:25 Yeah. So for me, it's all about like like my core messaging is like sold out and profitable. And the reason it's like, and I don't even really, really like I'm not like your retreat does not need to be sold out to be profitable, but you do want to be able to sell. And a lot of people lack sales skills. And it doesn't mean that you need to have these more like phone marketing person getting angry at you because you don't buy from them, right? And we have a misconception that selling is an act of service and that you're taking away from people if you do not offer your services. Shannon 00:07:03 Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about selling. and it's it's it's unfortunate, but it's fixable. as long as somebody is willing to open up their mindset, one of the things that you mentioned right at the beginning, and I know it's the topic that we really want to focus on today, because I think you and I could talk about things for hours and hours. but one of the main things that I'm really excited to chat about is loyalty marketing. And I know that you have a lot of experience in loyalty marketing. and I'm really passionate about it, so I'm super excited to delve into that part, which also aligns with sales, because there's absolutely a sales process in there. But let's talk about that. Talk to me about the importance of loyalty marketing and how it can really help you grow your business. Leni 00:07:46 Well, first I would like to start by saying what loyalty marketing means for those who might not be aware of the concept because it's a very, very simple concept. Loyalty marketing is customer relationship management. Leni 00:08:00 That's what it means. It's how you manage the relationships with your customers. So they want to come back. They want to buy from you again. At the end of the day, it's all about creating connections. It's about creating this rapport, building like know and trust. So they're like, if they have to decide, am I going to this retreat or this other retreat? It's a no brainer. So loyalty marketing is very, very powerful. And for me, it's my favorite type of marketing because it's all about building relationships. It's about nurturing those relationships that exist and not nurturing the future ones. Now, a lot of people might consider that loyalty marketing starts the moment they purchase something from you, and then you resell them. But for me, loyalty marketing starts from the moment someone becomes aware that you exist. Shannon 00:08:54 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Shannon 00:09:09 Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. That's interesting. I'm glad that we're bringing it up that way, because in my brain, loyalty marketing is nurturing the relationships I already have. So, for instance, I have what I call an alumni group. These are people who've all attended one of my retreats over the last 15 years. And so my alumni is like who I consider loyalty marketing. They've. But by the way, loyalty marketing can be whatever we decide it's going to be. But that's like for me, it's like my alumni, they get a special code, they get special extras, they get a special gift bag when they come. It's kind of like if you've ever been on a Disney cruise, you're your second cruise. Shannon 00:10:12 You get like special things left on your bed, your third cruise you get it gets elevated each time you attend a cruise, like your goodies get elevated, your access gets elevated, everything gets elevated. And that's the kind of the same thing that we do for our alumni group is that it gets elevated. And then every other year we have an alumni only retreat like no one else can come unless you've been an alumni. And that is a pure party recognition. Surprises, like, it's just an absolute blast. and so that's where my brain went with loyalty marketing. So I'm really excited because I do understand, though, this concept of as soon as there's a connection point of any way. That also could be loyalty marketing. Leni 00:10:51 Yes. So your regular way to see loyalty marketing would be they purchased, then they repurchased and they repurchased. And the more they purchased, the higher the benefits they get. And this is like the core concept in a way. And that's why there is a lot of memberships. Leni 00:11:08 And then you get points, right. A loyalty marketing program that anyone can relate with is Starbucks, right? The more coffees you get, the more rewards you get. Right. You get free coffee and then more and more and more and more and more. So that is the way. But and that's the when the moment when you get I would say when someone repurchases from you like and we call it retention. Right. So when someone stays with you, that's for the moment where you see the benefits and reap the benefits of all your loyalty marketing efforts, but that does not mean that you do not begin the relationship and nurturing them to become loyal customers before that. The way. I don't know if you want to share something. Shannon 00:11:49 No, no, I was just going to say I love that idea in that concept. Because as soon as they've had any kind of touchpoint, it is time to nurture that relationship. Leni 00:11:57 Exactly. So I like to see it in a very simple way. So when someone becomes aware of us on a social media post, on an ad, on a podcast episode, we are creating a one sided relationship. Leni 00:12:11 We're putting out content and that other person is consuming it. And then from that moment, they will decide if they like you or they don't. As simple as that. They're like, oh, I want to see more of this person or I'm not really that interested. So if you lose them from the beginning, then they're not your potential clients anymore. They left the pool, right? They left your funnel everything out. It's out of there, right? They're not in your space anymore. So nurturing loyalty, marketing from the beginning, even for people who do mini purchases, right? Like, I send sometimes private messages to people who buy like a product is $17. And I send messages to check. Hey, did you receive my my loyalty book? How was it? What was the biggest learning that you received? Sometimes people will answer, sometimes people won't. And it's okay. I don't do it because I'm expecting an answer. I am doing it because I'm building relationships from an e-book that is free, because I care about these people who want to host retreats, who want people to come back to the retreats, who want to have profitable retreats. Leni 00:13:24 And because I care, I show up and I show up in different levels of proximity. Right? And this is and I know maybe I'm talking a little bit in the technical space sometimes. So for those who are you listening, I hope it's clear enough. But different layers of proximity, right? So when someone comes, let's say to your book they might get an email from you or your assistant. And that's kind of it. It stays in that's in that realm, right? That's the amount of proximity that you're getting with them. Then later on, if they buy one of your courses, right, one of your programs, then maybe they're in live zoom sessions with you. So they get at a different level of proximity. The relationship that you're building has more touchpoints. And then let's say someone then comes to your retreat. But because they were on your group program, then they get a one on one session with you. Shannon. Shannon 00:14:22 Right. Leni 00:14:22 And higher level of proximity and then on and on and on. Leni 00:14:29 But we can begin our journey to create loyal customers from the beginning. For example, my podcast, How to Run Profitable Retreats. I have a lot of loyal customers that if I don't post an episode on the week, they will send me an email and be like, Laney, did something happen? Shannon 00:14:48 I love that. Leni 00:14:50 And it's because it's a one sided conversation that then becomes there is a place where they respond, but we do not want to start just nurturing relationships. Once they bought we want. Yeah, from the beginning. Shannon 00:15:07 I totally, totally, totally love this. one of the things I've talked about on one of my previous shows was we spend a lot of time in this industry, marketing, marketing, being throwing a lot of content out. Well, hopefully you are. Hopefully you're throwing content out, and it's good content, and it's valuable content and it is speaking the language to the proper audience. So hopefully you're doing that. And then the retreat leader is thinking, well, that's selling. Shannon 00:15:33 I just threw a bunch of information out. But it's not. That's marketing. Selling is anybody who's interacted with that information. You then follow up with them and you start what you're talking about, which is the the nurturing a relationship. It's this or as you will, loyalty marketing even. But it's really nurturing a relationship and it starts the minute there is a connection, a true connection. I also love that you said if they drop out, they're not your people. That's so important to me, Lenny, because I'm all about attracting the audience that you align with. And that's not everybody. Like, not everybody is going to listen to my podcast and be like, oh, that's the person I want to, you know, hear or be in the room with or whatever. Like, they're not they're not going to like how I talk or how I believe or, or how I run my business. That's okay. I want to attract the people who align with me. Maybe I challenge them. Challenging is fine, but alignment with that as well. Shannon 00:16:30 And so I love that you're like some people will just drop off. We're not chasing the ones that are dropping off. I'm not a big believer of that. We don't go chasing people who are dropping off. That means it's not a fit. No problem. I wish them well on the next journey that they find the right fit with. but yeah, I love this whole concept of, you know, really making sure that we nurture that relationship at that first touch point. And I know for a fact and I know you know this too. It's not happening in our industry. We're just putting information out there and then doing nothing else with it, and then sitting back and going, well, my retreats not feeling. Leni 00:17:07 Yes, like. But I posted on Facebook groups and no one replied to me. Shannon 00:17:12 Yes, that. Leni 00:17:15 Right. Yeah. Everyone talks about the, you know, the the post, the post and pray kind of thing. Right? And it is so important in these, in this industry to understand that we need to run our business like a...
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EP 235 Who Do You Need to Become? When Your Retreat Planning Isn’t Working
08/14/2025
EP 235 Who Do You Need to Become? When Your Retreat Planning Isn’t Working
Hey retreat boss—it’s time for a heart-to-heart. In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth that most retreat leaders avoid: 👉 If your retreat planning isn’t working, it’s not just your strategy—it’s your identity. Whether you’re dreaming of your first retreat or you’ve been in the game for years, this episode is your wake-up call to stop hustling like someone who hopes to succeed—and start embodying the retreat leader who already is. ✨ Shannon breaks down how to align your actions, energy, and environment with the version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with confidence. You’ll walk away with questions to ask yourself, identity upgrades to make today, and a clear reminder: 💥 You don’t get what you want—you get who you are. 🎧 Tune in now for the kick-in-the-leggings clarity every retreat leader needs. Link to full blog here: https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/be-her-now-the-mindset-shift-that-builds-profitable-retreats/ The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | --------------------------- Transcribed With Podsqueeze Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. Today I want to talk about something that has been coming up in a lot of conversations lately. And it's all about who do you need to become when your retreat planning isn't working? Because here's the thing you all have the vision. You have the passion. Maybe you've hosted a retreat or two, or you're dreaming of it. You're following strategies. Maybe you've even bought some programs and posted pretty graphics and the results are meh, right? You're not filling spots like you thought. You're not hitting those income goals. You do have income goals, right? Don't make me come after you. Shannon 00:01:04 You better have income goals. But you're burning time and energy and maybe money, and you're just not seeing the return. And here's the truth. I want to share with you with lots of love and zero bullshit. If what you're doing right now isn't working, it's not about doing more. It's about becoming more. Your retreat planning isn't what's broken, but your identity might be, I know. Oh, that sounds a little bit harsh, but stick with me here, because this isn't about blame. It's about radical responsibility. Let's say your goal is to earn $250,000 a year hosting retreats. Amazing. Totally doable. I'm actually going to pause there right now, because if I said that number and you were like, oh no, that's not that's not even possible, then honest to goodness, you're listening to the wrong podcast or you're just not ready. You're thinking way too small. And this isn't this isn't the space for you. Not yet. When you realize that 250,000 is totally doable and so is 500,000. Shannon 00:02:07 So is $1 million when you realize that you're in the right space. But whatever that number is, whatever that number is. I want you to get honest. When you think of the number, whatever your number is. I want you to get honest. I want you to ask yourself, are you making decisions like someone earning that amount a year? The big amount. The goal amount. Not that small shit. The big number. Are you making decisions like someone earning that number? Are you showing up with the confidence, the clarity and the consistency of someone who believes in that number? Are your daily habits, your energy, your schedule? Your identity aligned with that version of yourself? Who gets that number? Because here's the thing you don't get what you want. You get who you are. I want to say that again. You don't get what you want. You get who you are, who you're matched for. You get what you're matched for. That's why we've ever thought about things. And you're like, why didn't I get this then? But then you realized you went through all this other stuff, and you got that thing later and you were ready for it then. Shannon 00:03:21 You were you were equipped for it. Then you were thinking in that mindset. You were acting in that like you were ready for it then. We need to be ready for it now. We need to step into the version of ourselves who does hit that goal, that big goal. And let's break this down. So we'll break it down a little bit. If you're stuck in hustle mode, maybe even frozen mode, but let's say you're stuck in hustle mode and you're spinning your wheels trying to plan the perfect retreat to post the perfect reel, or even copying someone else's strategy. Maybe you're missing the point. You're missing the point if you're doing all these things because it's not just about retreat planning and marketing strategies. Although yes, you do need those, but it is about aligning your identity with the results that you say you want. So let's go through this. Let's ask yourself some questions. I really want you to to pause. Maybe after I ask the question, you pause this podcast and answer it. Shannon 00:04:21 Here's the first question. What does the retreat leader who earns 250,000 a year, $500,000 a year, whatever that number is? What does that retreat leader who earns that money do every day? Answer that question. Maybe she blocks her calendar with non-negotiable CEO time. She prioritizes revenue generating activities like outreach and strategic partnerships over tweaking Canva graphics for hours. Maybe she's very organized. She knows her numbers every day. She knows her numbers. I have a good friend, Erin Haig, who calls it coffee and QuickBooks. Shout out Aaron! I just love that she was doing that while we were in France. Every day it's coffee and QuickBooks. But a retreat leader who earns big money every day. She knows her numbers. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. Shannon 00:05:37 It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Here's another question what kind of mindset work does she do? What kind of mindset work does she do? Answer that question every day. Maybe she journals. She visualizes. Maybe she reminds herself every day that her work changes lives. She charges what she's worth and doesn't apologize for it. What kind of mindset work does she do? Another question who does she surround herself with? Who do you surround yourself with? Maybe she's in rooms in person and virtual with others who are playing big, y'all. This is important. This is why I joined the Genius Network. This is why I choose to surround myself with other people who think and play big. Maybe she learns from mentors who's who have actually walked the walk, not just talked the talk. Shannon 00:06:48 And I've got a little something to say about that here, because in this retreat industry now, we are seeing a lot of mentors and leaders popping up. And for only $7, you can learn how to make $1 million a year or $7,000. It really doesn't even matter. At the bottom, at the end of the day. What really matters is have they walked the walk? Have they walked the walk? That's who you want to listen to. That's who you want to surround yourself with. That's the room that you want to be in. She's also listening to books, podcasts and shows that speak growth, not scarcity. In this section of who she wants to surround herself with this question, I really want you to think hard of who you spend time with. Are they cheering you on and catapulting you to these big dreams? Or are they like, oh really? Are they holding you back? Or are they talking shit about the economy and the who? Whatever. Like, are they bringing you down? And you know how I feel about the economy and the world and how that affects us. Shannon 00:07:49 It doesn't. Listen to my other podcast on that. But who she surrounds herself with matters. Another question. How does she present herself? How does she present herself? This is kind of twofold to me. One is not in a fake way, right? She shows up on zoom events, even social media. Confident, grounded and magnetic. Right? But also, how do you put yourself together? Does that matter to you? Like, for me, I feel my most abundant, my most passionate, my most. Like I'm getting it when I have put a little something in to the effort of how I feel and look. By my presentation. Exterior presentation just as much as my interior. It does matter to me. It doesn't to everybody, but it matters to me. How you show up energetically and physically determines how you're going to feel. So how does she present herself? She drag in herself in her pajamas and come on over and and going, let me journal this bullshit. That's that's up on both both energetics and physically. Shannon 00:08:56 Right. How does she present herself? This kind of goes into the very last question I want you to ask yourself, which is how does she take care of her body and her energy. How do you take care of your body and your energy? Nourishing yourself. Moving your body. Getting support when you need it. She doesn't burn herself out trying to prove her worth. Because here's the thing. There is a difference between wishing and becoming. You can wish for success, or you can become the person who creates it. And becoming doesn't mean pretending. It doesn't mean pretending. There's a difference between pretending and acting as if you have something right. But it does mean choosing every single day to act. Think, plan, and move from the version of you who already has the thing you want. So you may think that's pretending, but that's not. And this, this doesn't work the other way around. You don't get the thing and then act as if you are that person. You act as if you are that person. Shannon 00:09:56 You move. You think, you become that person, and you'll get the thing you want your retreat, planning to actually work? Then work like the leader who already fills her retreats. What does that look like? Sell like the woman who knows her offer. Changes lives. Lead like the business owner who isn't afraid to go all in. And this isn't about meditating more. Although, look, I'm all for journaling, manifesting, meditating, vision, boarding, all those good things. I even have a course on it outlining exactly what I do. And I do think that it makes a powerful difference. But don't get it twisted. Energetics without action is daydreaming. Energetics without action is daydreaming. What bridges the gap between your current reality and your dream retreat? Business is becoming the kind of person who is willing to do the uncomfortable, aligned, focused work to bring it to life. Because here's what I want you to know. To sum this all up, I want you to know this. You don't need to find her. Shannon 00:10:58 You don't need to earn her. The version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with impact. She's already in you. I'm telling you, she is already in you. You just need to start acting like her today. Today? You can do that today. What's. What's one thing you could change today to start acting like that? To start acting like the person who earns that big goal. And if you don't know where to start, y'all know that I have my retreat leader membership. You can join where we talk strategy and mindset, marketing and identity support, stretch goals, all of those things. Or find a mentor or a course or a program or a room that plays big because you were never meant to do this alone, and you're definitely not meant to keep playing small. Let's build your retreat business and the identity to match. I look forward to hearing about it. Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat Ranch. See you next time.
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EP 234 Scroll-Stopping Content: Retreat Marketing with a Social Media Pro with Alessia Tenebruso
08/07/2025
EP 234 Scroll-Stopping Content: Retreat Marketing with a Social Media Pro with Alessia Tenebruso
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Alessia Tenebruso—founder of One Girl Travel, retreat content creator, and social media strategist—for a juicy convo on how to create social media that actually converts. Alessia shares the importance of having a dedicated content creator or social correspondent at your retreats to capture authentic, behind-the-scenes moments that build trust and spark FOMO (the good kind). They dive into how retreat leaders can stay visible and aligned online without burning out, plus tips on using platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok strategically. Whether you're documenting a retreat or planning your next one, this episode is your blueprint for scroll-stopping, story-driven content that fills spots and builds your brand. 🎧 Tune in now and learn how to transform your retreat visibility—one post at a time. 🔗 Links Mentioned: Alessia’s Website: Follow Alessia on IG: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ----------------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon and I am over the moon excited about my guest today. She is another amazing human being that I met in France. This is not the same because we are not sipping on champagne in France, but I am getting to record with her and I am so excited. Welcome Alexia to the show! I'm so excited you're here. Speaker 2 00:00:48 Thank you. It's so good to see you. I definitely miss you and all the fun we had in France. Speaker 1 00:00:53 Oh my gosh, it was seriously life changing on so many levels, but probably the biggest one was meeting the people that I've met there. Speaker 1 00:01:00 I have recorded shows about it and I have made posts about it. But if you are not up leveling yourself by getting into rooms with people who think higher, you know are just dreaming and envisioning and working towards bigger things. You're in the wrong spaces. And so that was just such an incredible experience. Plus, we're in France drinking champagne. I mean, come on. Speaker 2 00:01:20 Exactly. Speaker 1 00:01:21 It was a combination of amazingness. So why don't you first start off by just telling us who you are and what brought you to where you are at today? Speaker 2 00:01:28 Sure. My name is Alessia Russo. I'm the owner of One Girl Travel. I am many things I like to consider myself, like the Martha Stewart of the internet. I'm a certified life coach. I am newly a certified travel advisor. I am a content creator. I am a brand visibility consulting coach, and I am also a event Social Media coordinator. Speaker 1 00:01:52 Yes, to all of those things. And I saw quite a few of those things in action when we were in France. Speaker 1 00:01:58 And I want to talk about that stuff, because when I met you and I was realizing what you were doing and what you do, and I saw your content, which just blew me away, I was like, oh my goodness, this is so important for retreat leaders, because I do think a lot of retreat leaders are willy nilly. They're social media and they're digital content in general. And one of the things I always talk about is my number one goal is to grow my email list, my email list. But the number one way to do that is through social media, y'all. If you only knew how many times we've tried to record and the oopses that I have done today, I'm just going to blame it on a very busy, fruitful, amazing weekend I had with my retreat alumni. I did a lot of yelling and screaming, so my voice is done and so is my brain almost. But what we're going to talk about is super important because number one, building our email list. But we have to do that through our digital presence. Speaker 1 00:02:48 And the first thing people are going to look at when somebody is considering you or as a host or your business is your social media presence. It's a form of validation and it needs to be curated properly. one of the things I was talking about before we hit record was, you know, I see a lot of retreat leaders, especially new ones, but even some that have been trying to to kick around retreats for a while where they're like posting a cute picture of their kid and then their dog and then the retreat. And then, you know, this I don't know thing they saw on the news and then the retreat, like it's just all over the place and it's inconsistent. So could we just first talk about the importance of social media, the consistency of it, just, you know, in general why it's important to retreat leaders? Speaker 2 00:03:31 Yeah, absolutely. And first, I totally agree with you about your mailing list because you don't own your followers on these social platforms. But like you said, like this is like where your credibility is. Speaker 2 00:03:40 This is where they're getting to know you. So you're building community with your social media platforms, all of them. And each platform is very different. I in my opinion, I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I feel like Instagram is more of the curated, you know you got your whole like, page and it's all curated. Nice TikToks a little more rogue. I feel like I can have a little more fun, a little more behind the scenes on TikTok. Facebook is Facebook's Facebook. for Facebook, right? Like it's been around for a long time. But pretty much everything I post on Instagram just goes to Facebook. But basically, that's where people are going on your page to get to know you. And I know you mentioned about like posting family and kids and dogs and things that that's great for your personal page that doesn't belong on your business page unless it is carrying over to what you are trying to get across to your community. Speaker 1 00:04:33 Right? Speaker 2 00:04:33 But that's what stories are for, in my opinion. Speaker 2 00:04:35 Stories, I think, are a great way to share behind the scenes of your life. People love stories. They love seeing what you do on the weekends with your family, your friends, but your actual social media feed. It should be intentional and you should be posting with purpose each time you post. Speaker 1 00:04:52 Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats, so if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. I love that you're saying it like this because you literally nailed what I see as a user, let alone, you know, a business that's that's using the platforms. I agree with TikTok, by the way. We only started our TikTok account so we could do like pranks on the ranch and like show some funny behind the scenes goofiness. Speaker 1 00:05:34 And we've done some of that and I got to get better at it. But that is why I started TikTok. I thought that could be the more sassier branch of us. And then Instagram is very curated and Facebook is more like, here's an event, here's just some information, here's where we post our articles. It's SEO driven. It's, you know, it's got good stuff. Don't get me wrong. Depending on the age that you're targeting also might depend on which social media platform that you're spending a lot of time in. Very true, but I do agree. Each of them have their own kind of feel and layout to it. And I love that you said personal stuff. Personal page, unless it's stories. I totally agree with that so much. The stories is where people really, really get to know, like the person behind the brand, I think, or people behind the brand, like what's really happening, you know, behind the scenes. What are your struggles? What are your your successes? what are your your learning points or failures however you want to call them? And so I'm really excited that you you mentioned it that way. Speaker 1 00:06:28 Are you laid it out that way? Speaker 2 00:06:30 Yeah. I think it's a great opportunity for people to like, know and trust you. Right. Like that's the purpose of building your community. And they have to see that you're a real person, you know, especially if you're asking them to pay you for something. They need to know who they're paying and if they want to invest in you as a business owner. Speaker 1 00:06:49 See, this is so funny about, I don't know. It was probably eight, eight or so years ago. I was hosting a retreat in Northern California, and those of you that were on this retreat, you'll remember this. And we're going around the table, you know, the opening night and just introducing ourselves. What do we do? And all that kind of fun stuff. And I don't know, about halfway through. So we probably have about seven women who've already gone, well, like, this next woman was like, my name is so-and-so, I work for the FBI, and I background checked you to make sure that this was a legit thing. Speaker 1 00:07:17 And I was like, what? I mean, okay. And she was just very honest, like, you know, I just I didn't know if everything on social media was fake. If you know what was real, what wasn't real. And I just decided that I was going to use the tools that I had at my resources to check you out and make sure that I wasn't just giving my money away to some weird situation. Well, this was before, you know, the way social media is today. today, I think it's a little bit it's a little harder to curate a fake relationship on social media. You can. Absolutely. But if you're using the stories and you're using all the tools that are involved, and there's really you showing up the way, you know, you would want to show up to create that relationship. It's a little bit harder. But I just thought that was interesting because that once again, shows like to your point, if they're going to pay you money and they're going to show up to this space with strangers, like they need to feel like they can trust you. Speaker 2 00:08:07 Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1 00:08:08 And so I just I'm so glad that you're pointing that out. Okay. When I met you in France, you were one of the participants, but you were also a social media curator, and you killed it. Because I remember going to bed every night, and I would scan what was going on in the social media world, and it would be like, oh my gosh, look at her post. And she like, did a recap of I think it was the day before. It might have been, I don't remember if it was that day or the day before. I think you were on purpose doing it a day behind. and so it was like, oh my gosh, how you curated it gave me such FOMO. And I was there. Like, I was like, if I wasn't a part of this, I would be like, how can I be a part of that and talk to me about that and why you like. Why is that part of one of the things that you do and how important that is? Speaker 2 00:08:52 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:08:52 And exactly what you said it is creating that foam because only a, not everybody can code to a retreat, right? Like you have. Oh 1015, 20 people at a retreat. There are hundreds of people that are watching you, and we're debating on attending the retreat and what I'm doing as a participant of the retreat that is documenting what is happening. I am bringing it to life for everybody that's not there because I am somebody that I. The way I network is by being in the room at events and I love it, I love conferences, I love just being in those rooms because of the energy, because you're with like minded people, like you're just vibing off each other. You're getting excited and like, you know the feeling when we were together, it's not something that can be really shown through photos, right? It's like by me talking to the community and telling them what's happening. And by sharing, like, these behind the scenes clips that nobody else knows about except for us, and I'm sharing it with everybody. Speaker 2 00:09:58 Like they're getting to see what's really happening at these retreats. They're getting to see the transformation in real time. And I think it's such a great way of marketing your retreats because then they're seeing, okay. Like, look how much fun they had. Look at the transformations they had. Look at all the connections that were made. I want to go on that retreat. And so then they consider joining another retreat. Speaker 1 00:10:21 So there's to me, there's a couple things that this is like hitting on. First of all, you're there. You're a participant. You're creating, curating content to create this FOMO, to create this future marketing. And what I highly suggest is, is if you decide to do something like this, which we're going to talk about in a moment, that you already have your next date available. So that way when someone's watching this curated content and they're having this immense FOMO, which I'm telling you, y'all, if you if you were to saw the stuff that we did and the magic that we were creating together as a group, you would have absolutely been like, I need to be there. Speaker 1 00:10:54 And so you need to be able to say, yes, here's our next one. Here's our next one. Right. So so just being prepared for that at least a wait list. Like here's the landing page for the wait list at minimum. Right. But this was so powerful. So that being said, we've talked about how important social media is. The content on social media is the platforms on social media is talk to me about if somebody wanted to do or hire someone like you or hire you like, talk to me about the things that you provide that helps them build their marketing and build their business as a content creator or brand builder. Speaker 2 00:11:25 Absolutely. So consistency is key when it comes to social media. You want to make sure, like if you have a retreat that you're posting consistently about, that retreat and what I help retreat host do is I post on their behalf, getting the excitement going for the retreat or whatever it is they're selling, like talking about it and just showing my experience through what they are offering. Speaker 2 00:11:50 so really just build up your social media share, like where are we going to be? What are some of the things we're going to do? Tease them a little bit to get them excited and to follow along on that journey up until the actual retreat date. And then at the retreat, like that's where the magic is happening, you know, in real time. And the thing is, if you're a retreat host, it's hard to be in the moment and also try to capture your own content. And that's why, like. Speaker 1 00:12:17 Really near impossible. Speaker 2 00:12:19 Right? Speaker 1 00:12:19 Like it is. Speaker 2 00:12:21 I can't imagine it like it's very difficult. And I know, you know, you can hire professional photographers, but they're not getting that behind the scenes detail and like really the energy that's happening. So that's why I think it's great to have a content creator with you that can document everything. Because what they're doing, what I do is I am capturing thousands of videos and photos, and I am using them for future content for the retreat host. Speaker 2 00:12:51 So after the retreat is over, all that content is getting repurposed and it's being used to sell the next one. It's being used to market whatever else is coming next, and you can just keep repurposing it over and over and you're getting a library full of content. Speaker 1 00:13:07 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. So what I'm hearing is having a content creator who helps you market ahead of time, market during as well as capturing, and then even help you create content after for future retreats. Speaker 1 00:14:00 So it really just sounds like that we just need a content creator all the time. If I'm being honest. Speaker 2 00:14:07 I mean the afterwards, like then you can you can use their videos because you'll have access to their library and then you can repurpose it as you want. If you don't want to keep them on to continuously make the content. But it's really, I think, having that creator on retreat with you, where you don't have to worry, you don't have to be on your phone, you don't have to do anything except be with your people. I think that is the biggest thing. Speaker 1 00:14:32 I agree with you so much. one of the things that we do at our retreats is I have my retreat coordinator who helps me do that is I have a person that that's that's what they're doing. but she's not a content creator. She's she's young and she's, you know, got a little bit of that brain, but she's not a content creator. And so the difference to what she does, which is amazing to what you do, which is mind blowing. Speaker 1 00:14:55 I think it's important to really look at, like, who's the person that you're going to invite into this role that's going to do this? because your content, you guys have to go back and find it, and I'll see if I can try to link some of the things. I know that some of them were stories there, but a lot of them were post anyway, my point is, is like from you throwing back the covers and grabbing a cup of coffee and walking the ground. You know what I mean? Like these things, those those details that create that feeling and that emotion of being there with the group, really getting a feel for like what the lodging really looks like and what the food experience really is and what the magic of the moment is, like all those little pieces that we try to explain in pictures or just descriptive words just don't care. They just don't even. Honestly, to me. Come close to the way you did in your content creation. Speaker 2 00:15:47 Exactly. And I'm showing it from the point of view as an attendee, you know, so if somebody is worried about attending a retreat by themselves. Speaker 2 00:15:56 And my focus with one girl travel originally was solo travel empowering women to travel the world by themselves, I've now expanded to empowering women to do anything that they want in life confidently. but it really helps ease their mind to like, okay, this is what it's going to look like on this retreat. Like, if she can do it, I can do it. And it's kind of just like giving them like those training wheels, like, okay, I can do this. I see somebody else do it. This is what I can expect to do. Speaker 1 00:16:24 Ooh, that's such a good...
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EP 233 Lead Retreats Without Losing Yourself: The Joy Factor with Kelley Hartman
07/31/2025
EP 233 Lead Retreats Without Losing Yourself: The Joy Factor with Kelley Hartman
In this heartfelt and empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail sits down with Kelley Hartman to explore the transformative power of joy in retreat leadership. Kelley shares how a life-changing diversity retreat in her twenties sparked her passion for holding space and eventually led her to create her own retreats focused on joy, self-care, and aligned leadership. Together, Shannon and Kelley dive deep into why joy is not just a nice-to-have, but a non-negotiable for any retreat leader who wants to avoid burnout and truly support others. They get candid about energy management, setting boundaries, and honoring your nervous system—especially when life throws challenges your way. Whether you're a seasoned retreat host or dreaming of starting your first one, this episode reminds you that when you prioritize your own joy and well-being, you elevate the experience for everyone you serve. Offerings from Kelley: Free 4 Step Outline to reset into joy: Connect with Kelley: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | --------------------------------------------------- Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat. Success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leader's podcast. It's Shannon and today I have such a special guest, although I have to preface it by saying this is not as fun as France because my guest is someone that I met while I was in France, and we were just saying right before we recorded that it was such a magical group and I missed that energy so, so very much. But I'm really excited to see you today. Kelly, welcome to the show. Speaker 2 00:00:54 Thank you. Very excited to be here. Speaker 1 00:00:58 Yes. So Kelly Hartmann and I are going to talk about something that probably seems a little bit like. Speaker 1 00:01:04 Wait a minute, Shannon, why are you talking about this? But I actually feel like it's super, super important for us as retreat leaders and what we do and how we serve. And it's just a very, very important aspect of our leadership. But before we dig into the topic, Kelly, just tell us about who you are and what brought you to where you are today. Speaker 2 00:01:22 Great. Yeah. So I'm Kelly Hartman and I own Wild Hearts Collective, and I am a retreat leader. So the journey there is a little bit of a long one. I went to my first retreat in my 20s, and what really sparked my lifelong desire to host retreats was the amount of transformation that happens when you're on retreat. I met people there that I still connect with today, and that's 25 years later. and basically just learning the personal lived journeys needs of everyone there is what was life changing for me. It was a diversity retreat and it was getting that individual perspective. So when I hit 45, I said, I'm going to do what I wanted to do my whole life. Speaker 2 00:02:11 I'm going to host retreats. And I was also in corporate. I already host leadership trainings. I created Elevate Her, I host the global mentorship program and did a lot of trainings and learning and development for corporate women. So I'm taking that out of practice and doing it and hosting retreats of my dreams. So that is why I started. Speaker 1 00:02:36 Yay! You know what I love about this is that over 20 years ago, you had the spark and you're bringing it to fruition. And I think sometimes people, whether you're 40, 50, 60, 70, it doesn't even matter whatever your age is. But women, especially whatever that number is, that age in our head and we're like, yeah, I'm too old to do this now, you know? And I just, I call bullshit on that because there isn't an age that's too old. There just isn't. Okay. There isn't. And so, Kelly, I'm so, so glad that you were following your dreams now. And you're hosting these retreats because. Speaker 1 00:03:16 Yeah, I met Kelly in France, as I mentioned, and her energy is yummy. Like, I just cannot even put it into proper words. And so spending time with her on retreat, I'm sure, would be a joy, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today, because Kelly and I in France, we were talking about some of the things that might be missing from a retreat leader's life, as far as you know, being the best version of them. And one of those things is focusing on joy. So, Kelly, can you just kind of talk to us a little bit more about this? Speaker 2 00:03:50 Oh for sure. So as a retreat leader, you are facilitating the transformation of others on your retreat. And when you're doing that, that is having a requirement for you to hold space. And a lot of times, especially right now. Everything is so the world is messy and it's heavy. And every five seconds there's breaking news about something. And what that does is that triggers our nervous system to go into fight or flight. Speaker 2 00:04:22 And it makes all of this anxiety and worry and fear come into our energetic field and build up in us. And when we have all this heaviness and fear and anxiety and we dysregulated our nervous system, that is what causes us to basically not be able to hold that space. As retreat leaders, we need to know how to step out of the grind, to step out of burnout to start with self-care so that we when we show up on retreat, we are the best version of ourselves. And that's when we talk about anchoring into joy. Because what is joy and what is required for you to actually experience joy? You have to feel safe, right? You have to feel your nervous system has to feel good for you to even get to experience joy. And once you get there, that is when expansiveness comes. That is when you're in flow. That is when you can give and pour into other people's cups. Speaker 1 00:05:37 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. Speaker 1 00:05:42 I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind and come join me across the pond. Okay, I love this on so many levels. You are right, the world is messy. That's a really good way of putting it. I think the world's always messy, but it just feels extra loud. You know, at the moment. we've definitely in our lifetime, Kelly, we have seen some extra loud moments. probably. Maybe. You know, I'm sure more than previous decades. Only in the sense even that it's just so damn accessible. Too accessible in some ways. Speaker 1 00:06:43 Yeah. But yes, that and also I want to piggyback on this because as Kelly knows, this last month has been really very difficult for me. I've had some losses and and when we're in those spaces, whether it's heaviness from the world and our nervous system is disruptive or very personalized heaviness and we're disrupted. I think it's important that we remember that's not the time to create when we're in that space, when we're in that space of full disruption, full nervous system panic, whatever you want to call it. That's not the time to reach out. That's as far as reaching out to your, marketing efforts or your creation efforts or whatever may be the case. Maybe that's when you rely on a team member and you're like, hey, I need you to step up for me, or you hire it out for that moment, or you just take a break. But it's like, we need to honor that. There are times in life we're going to push, right? We're going to push through things. Speaker 1 00:07:38 You know, you stub your toe, push through it, whatever. But there are also times when your nervous system is telling you, okay, we we can't we can't go on. You know what I'm saying? Speaker 2 00:07:48 Yes. And it's so important that we learn to honor that in ourselves, because we have to learn how that we can honor that in our participants and see that and help them through that. In a lot of times, especially in the world right now, it's the hustle bustle. We got to go. We're we're women entrepreneurs, right? So we have a lot of big goals, a lot of big dreams. And I know that we hustle a lot. We're always kind of like, I gotta get this done and do that. And we don't take or make the space always to breathe, to anchor in, to return to our body out of our mind. And that causes those cortisol levels to rise, the anxiety, the panic. And it takes a toll on your physical and mental health and is so important for us to listen to our body, to rest like you said, to take a break and rest and recalibrate Because we're able to come back stronger than before. Speaker 2 00:08:48 It's so important. Speaker 1 00:08:51 Yeah. This is such a good reminder to me sometimes I forget. And I think many of our listeners forget that it doesn't always have to be pushed through it. It reminds me when I used to have my private practice for mental health. If I sat with a particularly heavy session with a client, I had to work really hard to reset myself so I didn't take it into the next session. It wouldn't be fair to that next patient for me to bring the previous patient's heaviness to them, right? And it's the same aspect here, Kelly, especially for those of us who are holding space. I'm just going to say it. You really should not be bringing your heaviness into the space that other people are trying to share their heaviness. It's just not appropriate. I know people are listening, are going to disagree with me. They're going to think, well, that's a safe space for everybody to do it. You know what? Yes, but not for the leader. The leader has to do their own processing, their own leaning in, their own resetting. Speaker 1 00:09:44 Separate. It really is. That is not the time and space for you to bring your heaviness in. It really alludes the whole point of a retreat for the guests that are paying to participate with you as a leader. It's okay to say, hey, I'm experiencing heaviness today. We're going to start our workshop a little bit later and then you do your thing. I'm not saying that you're going to show up and pretend like everything's okay. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, you're not bringing your shit into the same space that everybody else is trying to hold their heaviness or share their stuff, and, and I just I'm super passionate about that. And this is a really good reminder for myself as well. Speaker 2 00:10:23 100%. And that's and this is what I definitely want to talk about that this is not toxic positivity. This is not you should be enjoy every single day. And if you're not, enjoy it because that's bullshit. That is total bullshit. What this is, is that this is a reminder that we have tools and that to use those tools to really listen to your body and recalibrate your energy. Speaker 2 00:10:46 You own your experience on this planet, and when you choose to be a retreat leader, you're choosing to guide others and help them in their experience. And it's absolutely correct. You need to go in able to facilitate transformation. If you're in your own shit, you can't facilitate that transformation. You just you have to deal with that first. And having those tools to reset into joy, into calibrate to that is huge. It allows you to be expansive. It allows you to hold energy and space for others and allow them on their journey for transformation. Speaker 1 00:11:23 Yes. Thank you for this topic. I think it's so very important, and it's just one of those things that's often overlooked. as I shared, things have been really heavy with me, and one of the decisions that I made this August, I was having my retreat leader mastermind, and I'm actually Rescheduling it because it's just not the right time for me to hold space for others because I'm bringing my shit with me. And so I'm super transparent about that and making sure that, you know, I'm making decisions that are sound for my body and safe for me, but also for my guests. Speaker 1 00:11:58 I am still having my alumni retreat. for those that don't know what that is, is every other year, sometimes three years, but usually every other year, I host a retreat that's just for alumni. That means they've been on my retreat before. They know exactly who I am and what's going on. And I had a real heart to heart with myself and the group, and they are well aware of what I'm going through. And this is just a party. It's just a gathering. There's no transformation, there's no promise. There's no holding space necessarily. We're just coming together to celebrate. And we're all very excited about it. And I'm actually excited about it. My alumni retreat, because I just I feel safe with them just as much as they feel safe with me. And it's, you know, there's there's just a really good, And, it's just a really good vibe with this group and it's just going to be so fun. But I've really honored. The thing that I've put forth that I'm saying is I'm not creating anything in this time. Speaker 1 00:12:48 In this time. This time of my own heaviness. It's not fair to the people who might be receiving receiving it, but also they're not going to receive the, the, the my true heart right now. They're going to receive my broken heart or my grief heart or my guilt heart or whatever it is that I'm feeling inside. That's what they're going to receive. And that's not that's not representative who who I am. And so whether it's big like the world or like loss or anything like that, or whether it's just you struggle with sadness sometimes or you struggle with whatever, you know, or you've got, you know, difficulties in an important relationship, whatever that that is, you've got to lean into that and not bring it with you into your transformative spaces. And I think you, you know, you, Kelly especially, you offer tools and thoughts on how you can maybe tune out of that darkness. Speaker 2 00:13:42 Yes. Yeah, because we do have those. And first I want to say, thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable because you're setting an example and telling people that it's okay to pivot. Speaker 2 00:13:55 you know, when I work with women, both inside and outside of corporate, there's a lot of fear about, perception or quote unquote feeling, which is such bullshit. Sorry. But in that if we don't do things the way that we thought, if we don't, if we pivot, that's a failure. But you are actually doing something amazing for both you and the attendees and doing it in a space that will be transformative for them and bringing your best self when you can. So that's that's setting a huge example for everyone. And that's just amazing. So thank you for sharing that. Speaker 1 00:14:34 Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats. So if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. Speaker 1 00:14:56 Yeah. No, absolutely I, I really I. My, my motto is to try to walk the talk. And so what I teach I really I really do want to walk and I it was a really hard message to send to the attendees for August. and it was really it's been really hard, even for those that keep inquiring about it. but also feels right. It's hard, you know, the hard that feels right. That's what this is. This is the hard that feels right. And so I want my thing was, especially I had this conversation with an attendee who was really disappointed. But my thing was I want to show up and give my best self. I don't want to bring this and set it on your plate. or or do a half ass, you know, retreat for you. That's just not okay. And so anyway, so yeah, I feel really good about it. As hard as it is, I don't feel good about it. I feel good that the decision was the right decision to make. Speaker 1 00:15:52 just like I feel good that spending time with my retreat alumni who are coming tomorrow and I can't wait to see them. feels also very good, because I know that that's not going to require me holding space necessarily. My team can do it if that needs to be happening, but most my alumni retreats, I'm just going to be honest. It's just a party. It's a girl party. Speaker 2 00:16:11 That's awesome. So, so. And that is what we talk about a lot right now. And what I do is I gather the women we're gathering, the women gathering women in circles is so important and amazing. and just that space. But again, it's that that awesome and just radical honesty that you have, that this is what this experience is. It's not a retreat. It's a party. And that is. Yeah, that's exactly what will be expected of attendees. And they're excited to see you. They've already been through that transformation with you. And they they understand. So that is totally amazing. Speaker 1 00:16:48 Yes. Speaker 1 00:16:49 Yeah it really is. And plus the outpouring of love from them has been just beautiful. So, well Kelly, tell us, like if somebody wants to spend more time with you because I think that they would benefit from it greatly. Tell me some of the offerings that you currently have. Speaker 2 00:17:03 Sure. So I am hosting a retreat in September called Joy as Revolution and we are taking, this experience is amazing because it's allowing people to experience joy in different ways. So joy isn't always this exciting, passionate, like, oh, I'm in joy. I take everyone through the four elements. so how do you feel in Earth as you're experiencing joy. And that's a grounded joy of feeling stable or air. How does air feel? That's going to be light and that's doing breathwork and feeling alive. Or if you look at fire, fire is that passion. That's the creativity. So that's doing art, that's dancing, that's, you know, yelling at the moon, that fiery. And then last is water. Speaker 2 00:17:52 And that's when you're in flow and you let go of the things that we hold so deep. So the transformation that's coming there and what I specialize in, and that's with all of my offerings, is getting you out of your head and into your body. Your body knows. And you talked about that you felt into your decisions about both retreats. Your intuition told you what was right and you listened. And what I see so much in women is we ignore intuition because societal expectations tell us No. You should push through this. You should act a certain way. We have these expectations of how you show up and how you act. So I specialize in getting women to get into their bodies so they can transform and listen and learn and feel. And then they trust their intuition. And that is when the magic happens. Speaker 1 00:18:50 Oh, yes. Thank you. And may I have another I love this so much. And I will...
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EP 232 Lessons from a First-Time Retreat Host: What I’d Do Differently with Misty Chambers
07/24/2025
EP 232 Lessons from a First-Time Retreat Host: What I’d Do Differently with Misty Chambers
In this candid episode of the Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Pilates studio owner and retreat host Misty Chambers to unpack the highs and lows of her first-ever retreat. From a surprise challenge with a sick guest to navigating meal budgets in the Champagne region of France, Misty shares everything she wishes she had known—and what she’ll absolutely do differently next time. They talk about the importance of having personal space as a retreat leader, hiring a retreat coordinator, setting realistic expectations around meals, and most importantly: why retreat leaders must sell, not just market, their experiences. This is an honest, refreshing conversation that every retreat leader—especially those in their early retreat-hosting days—will deeply relate to. Connect with Misty: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Full Transcript Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. It's Shannon and I'm super excited to have a guest today. That is another Fellow of France Retreat member. I met her in France and fell in love with her and her energy, and I'm super excited to have her on the show because she's going to be super vulnerable with us. Y'all. and share with us something that a lot of retreat leaders hesitate to share about, or they just don't even want to talk about it sometimes, or they make it sound different than it was. And that is learning through our first retreat and how we would want to do it maybe differently. Speaker 1 00:01:01 And just we're going to go dig right into it. So welcome, Misty to the show. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm so excited to see your face again. It's not the same as France, but I am glad to see your face. before we get started into this topic, just tell us a little bit about who you are and, you know, give us a little bit of a taste of what? What makes Misty. Misty. Yeah. So my name is Misty chambers. I live in Houston, Texas and have a brick and mortar Pilates studio there. I have been in the movement industry, most of my life. started off, teaching dance and then got into yoga and pilates and, along the way, I've done interior design and, and now retreats. So, I've kind of had a, a long little detour of things that have gotten to me where I am now. And, So, yeah, it's a little bit about me. I think all of us have that to some degree. Speaker 1 00:02:07 If I talked about all the different hats that I've worn until I got to the space. And it's funny because all the hats I have worn helped me in the space that I am in today. And I think that just is kind of how it is. So, so Misty, you just recently had your very first retreat, you hosted your very first retreat. You were actually when you left us in France, you were headed to host your retreat. And. Exactly. Yeah. Through that process, we kind of all you were keeping us all in the loop during this retreat on Voxer. And my heart was like, oh, my poor Misty, because I feel like the universe was showing you, like all the things that could possibly make you cranky about hosting a retreat. It was definitely a learning experience. Yes, but part of what we're going to talk about is a lot of times, retreat leaders think that their first retreat is like going to be that that. Speaker 2 00:03:02 Oh, all. Speaker 1 00:03:03 You know, like this is it. Speaker 1 00:03:04 This is exactly how it's going to be. I'm so excited. You know, there might have been 1 or 2 things, but, you know, this is it. And it's like, that's not always the case. As a matter of fact, I would say more often than not, after you host your first retreat, you're like, first of all, do I even want to keep doing this? Second of all, how can I, you know, change all these different things? And so anyway, Misty, let's just start off with maybe your very first thing that you were like, okay, this is what happened and this is what I plan to do differently in the future. Sure. And to feed off of what you said a second ago, I don't know if you got if you remember in the box or chat. after the retreat, I was like, I don't know if I'm cut out for this. I don't know if I want to host another retreat because I had such a challenging time with this one. Speaker 1 00:03:53 And, I think one of the things that made it so difficult is that one of one of my guest was ill, and she was very challenging to deal with because she did not feel good. She was not, nice to me. She wasn't nice to her tour guide. She we stayed at a hotel. She was not nice to the hotel staff, and it just made the energy very low. And like, we were walking on eggshells. And I one of the the first things in dealing with that, I would say that I have learned is that I don't want to stay at the same place, like I did. we we were staying at the same hotel. I, in fact, was just two doors down from, this woman. And I would want to hole up in my room when we were not doing anything because I didn't want to, you know, I needed some downtime to myself. And so, one lesson learned is that I think I would, stay either at another hotel or make sure that I was in a room in a different part of the hotel. Speaker 1 00:05:05 If you're or if you're doing a retreat venue staying offsite. just to give yourself a little bit of decompression time. yeah. So I love this. Before we keep digging in, I realized we didn't really share kind of what what your retreats entail. And so you're misty. You focus primarily on travel and culture experiences. And I remember when you and I talked, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is my jam. Like, it's it's not a travel guide. It's like a travel guide on steroids, right? I don't even I don't even like using the word travel guide. It's it's an experience that you're providing, you know, where it's got all elements of the retreat, what would be considered a retreat. It just doesn't have maybe a retreat transformation at the end so much as an immersion in this really cool place space, you know, and so anyway, so it includes, you know, lots of different aspects of it, the excursions and exploring and the meals and conversations. But it's just, you know. Speaker 1 00:06:08 It's a it's a travel and culture immersion. So I just I wanted to clarify that. So that way people are like, well, what were you doing in a hotel? Because not everybody does retreats in hotels. Some, some people do. and I also love that you said, because this is something that I talk about all the time when it comes to hosting retreats is retreat. Leaders have to have a separate space, at minimum, a completely separate room. Right? Because I've had I've seen retreat leaders where they're sharing rooms in co shared spaces, like with their retreat guests. And I just do not think that's a good idea. So at minimum you have to have a separate room like here on the ranch. It's a whole separate building at the back of the property. It's the retreat leader's apartment. They have their own own little kitchenette, even, like it's just a space where they can kind of, regroup, reset, retreat themselves. So that way they can show up as their best selves. Speaker 1 00:06:55 So I'm really glad that you said that. And then there are retreat leaders like Aaron, who's who. We met each other through where she even stays off site. So she might be a few houses down from the house or the venue that she's using, or whatever may be the case, so she can completely decompress and she's got someone on point like Matt, which I think Matt was her retreat coordinator, which I think was one of the points that you were going to make to Misty is having a retreat coordinator, right? Yes. Again, because I had a guest that was ill. I was having to, manage her, like finding a doctor. her husband also came. they wanted an extra room so they didn't have to sleep in the same room since she was sick. So just navigating all these, different, things that were unexpected. We also had to pivot the activities that we were doing. Now, I did have a tour guide that I had for three days during the retreat. she was local there, and, she was fantastic and did help with, the pivoting of the activities and stuff. Speaker 1 00:08:09 But it would have been helpful had I had, you know, some like Daysha Danzy or Matt Quinonez, who I hope I said his name correctly and right. Who, who, does this retreat coordination. That can be your point of contact, who can handle all those things so that you can be fully present for your other guests and not take time away trying to juggle all these, pivots. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets, from pricing to planning, marketing. To mindset. And you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind and come join me across the pond. Speaker 1 00:09:20 You know I'm glad. Yes, this is so important. I had daysha on the show a few episodes ago. If you haven't listened to that episode, you got to dig into it. It's she's an incredible retreat coordinator. It is so critical that you have an on point person who takes all of these things on because Misty, as you've probably know and felt every single time this person would come at you with some of the thing they needed or whatever, it would just totally hit your nervous system and your whole body. And then to continue to try to hold space and and stay light and joyful and excited about the experience is really hard. Where if you have a point person on site who is the one that is the first stop for everything that's needed, every issue that comes up, everything that's needed, that's the first stop. And then if they can't handle something, then yeah, they can come to you and say, hey, Misty, I'm not clear where I should go with this direction. Fine. Speaker 1 00:10:07 But there should be a first stop person. So thank you for bringing that up because I think that that's so under underutilized underrated not talked about enough. And so yes. Thank you. So. So lesson one was you know staying away from your guests, having your own space to retreat to and, you know, decompress and just reset. And then lesson number two is having a retreat coordinator or assistant on site to help you. What other types of lessons did you learn? So, since we were staying at a hotel and not at a retreat venue, I did not have a chef on site, so we were eating out at all of our meals at different restaurants. We had, two meals that we did at the hotel. Most of the meals that we did were like, the menus were the prefix menus, but on the occasions where they weren't, I found myself going over the allotted budget that I had had per person. while I tried to, we were in the champagne region, so of course there was a lot of champagne, being consumed. Speaker 1 00:11:17 So I would try to order a bottle to help mitigate, you know, the different, amount of glasses that might be, ordered, but, you know, I couldn't predict what people were going to order for their meals. And while I tried to look at the menus ahead of time and tried to guesstimate a good budget per person, I felt like every time that we went out to eat, I was, blowing my budget a little bit. So I think having, an agreement with the restaurant beforehand, having a preset menu, these are the things that you can choose from, would definitely be helpful. Or, you know, allotting a budget, like if you're having the meal at the hotel, you know, giving, a certain amount of credit towards meals. but, just going out to dinner and, you know, I was including all meals, in the retreat and maybe giving some free time for them to go to dinner on their own would also be helpful. Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Speaker 1 00:12:30 Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats. So if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. I love that option that they could have, you know, a meal on their own in this cultural experience. I think that that would be a great option, but especially just having the preset, you know, just a preset. This is this is where you can order from. And if you want to order off of this, that's fine, but that'll be at your, your expense. being super clear. But Misty, you know, considering that you had never done this. I don't know that somebody would have thought of that, because you did look at the menus and you estimated and you, you know, you were prepared as much as you could be until you experience it. Speaker 1 00:13:21 And this is why I always say, like, you really won't know until you do. You know what I mean? Like you, we can plan and we can guess and we can do all the things. And that's good. That's a good start, you know? But until you do it, like your first time doing it, that's when you'll see like, oh, my budget was a little off here. Or oh, I didn't even think about this could happen. What would I do in the future? You know, so so again, this is just another thing that, you know, you won't you won't know everything until you do it. And even when you do it, Misty, there's still going to be times if you decide to do it again. There's going to be times where you're like, well, shit, I didn't think of that either, you know? And that just that just happens over time as you start to accumulate these experiences and these, just things that will come up and and be able to plan for those things. Speaker 1 00:14:12 So anyway, what else? so my other lesson, which I have heard many times from Aaron, and then also more recently Dora Rankin, was not to just market your retreat, but to sell the retreat. And I think I did a great job putting all the beautiful marketing and all the wonderful things that we were going to be doing, and it got people to say, oh, wow, that sounds like a great experience. But that's all I was doing was marketing. I did not ask for the sale, and that's very challenging for me. so definitely lesson learned. And I know that that's something that I need to work on and get more confident at doing, but people aren't just going to come because you put out pretty post and it looks amazing. So, definitely ask for the cell. You know, this is such a big one. Missed this for retreat leaders who've been doing it for years and years. They're still not necessarily doing that part of it, which is why I'm so glad I also had Dora on the show to talk about the difference between marketing and selling. Speaker 1 00:15:33 And if you are an entrepreneur, really, we're all selling, but especially if you're an entrepreneur, you're also a sales person. Like this is part of it. And you're right. Marketing isn't selling. Marketing's attracting, but it's not selling. And so I'm so proud of you for talking about that. And in general, Misty, thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing, you know, your lessons, but also the fact that you were super, super like upfront saying, I don't know, you know, if I want to do this again, I, you know, like that's, that's a real thing and maybe you just need some time to like, release some of the, let's just be honest. Trauma of it. To release some of that trauma and then get reignited with your passion and your why and and what it could look like, and knowing that some of the quote unquote worst has already happened. Right. I mean, really, it has. And so because I don't want you to give up, because I want to come on one of your retreats. Speaker 1 00:16:30 Like you're speaking my language when it comes to travel and cultural experiences. I just think that that is, it's something that's so needed and it's such a beautiful thing. And not to mention that your energy is absolutely perfect for it, so I wouldn't want you to give up, but I also would want you to do it with your whole heart. So I don't know. What are you thinking? Where are you at today? So now that it has been, a few weeks since my return from a very challenging time, and have given it some more thought, I do want to continue. And in fact, I do want this to be a more a cultural Role travel experience. that will be unique and fun. And, I'm already looking at planning my next one. I'm hoping that it will be in New York, in December. A little Christmas, Christmas trip. So, I'm in the process of, hopefully trying to get that together, and I've got a few other ideas in mind for 2026, so we'll stay tuned for that. Speaker 1 00:17:42 So I'm not giving up yet. Good, good. That makes me so, so happy I really don't. And some people may just not want to stick around that long, but I really don't think you truly, truly know until your third one. And I know that sounds funny. Like why the third one? Well, the first one. You're almost just like a deer in headlights. No matter how much you work with Aaron, who's amazing. You work with Dora, who's amazing. Like they gave you a good framework and they're continuing to do so, but they're not the one hosting, right? Your first one you are. And so it's just like that kind of deer in headlights first one. And then you were happened to be blessed with a lot of challenges in your first one. Right. So but anyway, the first one is just like the deer in the headlights. The second one is like, okay, I'm getting traction. I figured out some things that I feel did not work. Speaker 1 00:18:30 I've learned some lessons, and you're kind of like, okay with this new mindset, but it's really like your third one that you're like, you've you've pretty much fine tuned who you want to be, who you want to be there with you, what your message is, what the experience is going to feel like for you and your guests. Like it's really fine tuned by your third one. And that's when you know, in my opinion, you're like, yes, this is what I want to do. Or you're like, nope, I want to be a guest on retreats instead instead of this. And so, like, I really don't feel like, you know, to your third one. So I'm really happy that you are. You're going for it again. And if people want to find out about your retreats that are going to be coming up. How can they find you? So they can find me on my website, which is breathe River oaks.com/retreats. And, you know, I figure at this point I can only go up from here. Speaker 1 00:19:30 I agree, Misty. I agree. listen, I if we, we should have a whole show about all the things that we've learned. I hate saying the word wrong because it just it isn't wrong. It just is what it is. And...
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EP 231 Algorithm-Proof Your Retreat Brand: Social Media That Sticks with Robin Nathaniel
07/17/2025
EP 231 Algorithm-Proof Your Retreat Brand: Social Media That Sticks with Robin Nathaniel
In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by social media strategist and author Robin Nathaniel (@robbinmarx) to dig into what it really takes to build a retreat brand that thrives online—without having to chase every trend. Robin brings two decades of experience in social media and shares how to focus on authentic, audience-focused content that stands out in an AI-driven world. From aligning your content with your brand's voice to Robin's powerful SYNC framework (Simple, Yield, Natural, Change), this episode is packed with gems for retreat leaders who want to grow their impact without burning out online. They also discuss: The myth of “going viral” and why it’s overrated How to identify your content bandwidth and platform sweet spot Why “100% human-made” content is gaining new value The power of speaking directly to your audience like a best friend A sneak peek into Robin’s Social Media Sync Bundle, made just for you! Grab your free Social Media Sync Bundle from Robin: Connect with Robin: Website: https://robinnathaniel.com/ The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | | -------- Full Transcript Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to The Retreat Leader's podcast. I'm excited because I have another amazing guest today in. My guest is going to be talking about something that I think 99.999% of the people who are in our space think it's one of the most important aspects of marketing and growing your retreat business. And I would agree with you, although I also think email is important, but we are going to talk about social media. And so welcome, Robin Nathaniel to the show. Speaker 2 00:00:54 Thank you so much for having me, Shannon. I'm pumped to talk to your audience about social media, and I'm confident that they'll walk away with some value today. Speaker 1 00:01:03 That's fantastic. Robin, why don't you just first start off by telling us a little bit about who you are and what brought you to this space that you're in now. Speaker 2 00:01:10 Yep. So I started my career off in music. I was a performer as well as an event organiser and a producer. And then in 2010, I had my first child, my, my, my son. And when he was born, I was like, I need to get a job. So I switched gears and joined the non-profit field, and I moved up in non-profit leadership. And then the pandemic hit. When the pandemic hit, me and my family left our busy life in New York City to move down to the green pastures of the Atlanta area. And I reset and, shifted from my career in nonprofit leadership to finally take a hold of my marketing, career, which I have a degree in which I had been doing social media since the days of Myspace and Friendster and just led me down this path of social media leadership. Speaker 2 00:01:59 Now I lead a small team for local government with social media, and I also have an independent boutique agency where we support mission driven organizations and nonprofit with social media solutions. Speaker 1 00:02:09 Oh my goodness. I love so much about this, and I love that you've been in the industry for as long as you have, because and I think it even said it on your website somewhere when I was doing some research, like it's, it's not heard of for someone to be in the social media space for over 20 years. So how have you hung on this long? I have to know. Speaker 2 00:02:30 First of all, it's just like interest, right? So me getting into social media early, I got to see the beginning with sites like Friendster and Myspace, even six degrees before that. Right? And what I found was the power of being able to communicate with people in another place with a push of a button just blew me away, and I knew that there was going to be something there, so I just had a general interest for it. Speaker 2 00:02:55 I think when I started getting into it on an academic level because I was an adult learner for college and I had to like write papers around social, do research. It just opened my mind on a whole, on a whole nother level. And I believe that's what separates me from other people in the industry. And if people read my book, they'll see some of my philosophies kind of butt heads with what the quote unquote gurus are saying in the space. I have some conflicting messages and we'll talk more about it, but generally it's just the love for being able to impact people all over the world. Speaker 1 00:03:29 Okay, well, I'm glad that you are here, and I'm glad that you're in this space and that you've been in this space for this long. I have been a user since the Myspace days. I did start in marketing when Facebook first became kind of like to me, it seemed like the very first real engine of social media marketing. This is well over ten years ago. And so I've been marketing in the the social media space since then. Speaker 1 00:03:55 However, it has been hard as hell for me to keep up. I'll just be honest with you. The algorithms change. The expectations change. The rules change what works. Change is a new platforms on the horizon, you know. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many moving parts now. Compared to when I used to just spend 100 bucks on Facebook and get a really good return. And so keeping up has got to be something I don't know. That's its own beast. Speaker 2 00:04:20 It really is. And I and one thing that I mentioned early on in my book is that I work in this space, right? Like literally I wake up in the morning at 5 a.m. and I'm all, I'm all social media until I lay down right and I can't keep up. So don't feel bad. Just know that it moves so fast. And especially with the, the rise of AI, it's just increasing the pace of the, the growth and and and this the platform changes. So that's why in my teaching and in my philosophy, I focus on a concept that I call algorithm proof content instead of people becoming, you know, essentially slaves to what the platforms are doing or liking. Speaker 2 00:05:01 Just focusing on human connection through their content and creating strong, intentional relationships with their audience. Speaker 1 00:05:09 Okay, now you're speaking my language. So let's let's dig into it. Let's talk about some strategies. Did you want to start there with this algorithm proof concept or or talk to me. What do you want to start with. Speaker 2 00:05:19 Yeah we can start with algorithm proof content. So one thing that I found in all of my years in social is that folks are glued to what the next big thing is. For example, years ago when Snapchat first came out, people were hyped about Snapchat and then Instagram totally stole their model, which they often do, right? And then they created stories and then everyone shifted the stories. So what I felt like is that essentially we're on this seesaw. Whichever way it's going, we're going to slide to that end. And when the weight shifts, we slide with it. And what happens is you get seasick. You're like you. You know, like we're overwhelmed. We're confused. Speaker 2 00:06:02 We don't know which way to go. And we're just back and forth on this social media seesaw, if you will. And what I found is that staying in the center and identifying the fact that the one unique proposition value proposition that you will have in whatever business you do, whether it's organizing retreats or whether you sell donuts, is you is the person behind the brand, the the the person who fuels the wheels. And if we can lean into that and really find a way to communicate directly with our ideal target audience, that we create algorithm proof content, regardless of the platform, regardless of the medium. You can write it, you can videotape it, you can take a picture of it. It's still going to be authentically you. Speaker 1 00:06:48 So you are speaking my language on so many fronts. The first one really being just being you. Like, don't try to be someone else. Don't try to copy this thing that looks really good or is doing really well. Don't try to follow just all the trends in the whatever. Speaker 1 00:07:03 Like you can use some of this information, but it has to be authentically you. It has to have your voice, your spin, your whatever. So I love that. And then in conjunction with that, making sure that it is speaking to your ideal audience, you know, like I can't tell you how many times someone's like, oh, I did this post and it's really, really good. And I look at it, I'm like, it has nothing to do with your business at all. Like, you're doing it on socks and you're over here trying to sell, you know, mental health strategies or whatever. And so it has to be directed directly to your target audience. It has to be authentic to you. And I love that. That is like the whole concept behind algorithm proof, because you're right. If you're speaking to your people, like literally someone who's looking, looking, listening, watching, whatever, if they're feeling like, man, she or he is speaking directly to me, it doesn't matter what the algorithm is doing, right? Speaker 2 00:07:54 It really doesn't. Speaker 2 00:07:55 And I and I and I have a quick story to share with you. So I got on TikTok in 2020 and I had some success, and it kind of led to my independent boutique agency. I had a couple of videos go viral. Both videos had over 2 million views. But like you said, the videos weren't necessarily aligned with my mission. My, the the videos weren't necessarily speaking directly to my ideal target audience member. And essentially the, the the videos were just vanity metrics, right? They got me a lot of followers. They got me a bunch of views. Flip the other, flip that coin. And on the other side of that coin, I did a video on Facebook a few years later, I want to say it had 500 views, Shannon 500 views, and it was basically me sharing one of my signature frameworks. I got a call or I got a message I should say that led to a call that led to a long term client that that generated tons of revenue for my business. Speaker 2 00:08:56 So the point is. Vanity metrics and chasing views, likes and the surface level performance metrics is not where we are in this era as I can. Continues to evolve. Human connection is going to be valued more than anything else. There's going to be a time where the way you go to a fair or a, you know, a craft fair and you go around the tables and it's like, you, you sold that together. Yeah. It was human made, I made it. It's made by me, the creator. The content will be the same way. Shannon. Mark my words. People will stamp 100% human made and it's going to have a premium value. So that's why I'm leaning into people or or encouraging people to lean into the human aspect of content creation and social media in general. Speaker 1 00:09:44 Oh my gosh, I, I had to mute myself, but I could almost fall off my chair when you're like, it's going to be stamped human made because you are so right. You're so right. Speaker 1 00:09:55 That is where we're headed right now. And it's getting easier and easier to spot AI. And we'll just call it sometimes IBS all over the place. And people are going to be like, they're done. They're over that. Scroll on, keep going. Tune it out. They're going to be looking specifically for human made content. Human made everything. And so I love that so much. Talk to me about what other strategies retreat leaders should be considering. maybe these are strategies that you've shared in your book that they should be considering when they're trying to grow their audience and grow their business. Speaker 2 00:10:27 I think for retreat leaders, and again, I'm grateful to be on your platform, Shannon, because, this is an audience that I don't get to speak too often, but I've had some, life changing experiences at retreats. So for that reason, I'm really grateful for this opportunity. It really depends on what part of their journey they're on. So let's speak to the retreat leader who is not on social, is fearing social, has some trepidation around even starting like the journey. Speaker 2 00:10:54 What I would encourage them to do is to first start with identifying their bandwidth. That's the first step. I think oftentimes when people say, you got to get on social media, we open an account on every single platform. We, we, we fire up Canva, we create images for everyone and we just let it rip. Right? While that is social media, that's not strategy, and I don't think it's the best use of your resources. Right. So I would first identify your your your bandwidth. Is it going to be you. Is it going to be somebody on your team? How much of our time for our marketing contributions can we commit to this? And as we go into 2026, I will also as a ninja trick just right now, as you're if you're working on preparing budgets for next year, you should really prioritize align for social media. So whether you bring in a team to help you, a consultant and strategists like myself, or if you empower somebody on your team. So that's the first step, is just figure out who's going to do it and how much time can they spend to it? Spend, spend on it. Speaker 2 00:11:54 Next you want to clearly identify your ideal audience member. So we talked about it earlier. customer avatars. There's so many terms around ideal viewer, just the person that you want to speak to in your content. And I know what people are going to think. Well, Robin, if I speak to one person, how will I? I'm going to miss out on so many other people. It's a common concern that people, people have. One thing that I've seen is that when people speak to one ideal audience member in their content, especially smaller organizations who have like one, set of people that they're speaking to, the other people will get attracted. So even if you're speaking to Jane, 29, who lives in Ohio, Jimmy, 35, is her husband, and he'll hear you and listen to you, too. So that's the next thing. Identify your ideal, target audience member. So stop me at any point. Shannon, I'm going to kind of push through this. Speaker 1 00:12:45 So you're speaking my language. Speaker 2 00:12:48 So third step after you know your bandwidth, you know your ideal audience member. The third step. Now, what you want to really lean into is where your people are. Let's go and let's do some market research. Where are our folks hanging out? If you have an existing audience. Do a survey, send out an email, blast. Send out mailers. Whatever you do to communicate with your audience. Get on the phone. Even if it's 10 to 15 people, to do a small little experiment to find out where people are. Now here's where people sometimes get confused. Let's say all of your people are on Facebook, but now you have a intern who only knows how to use TikTok. So now you need to decide, do you want to teach this person how to operate on Facebook? Or do you want to start off on TikTok? Because having a person on your team who is equipped to actually do it is an important part of it. I lean towards going where the audiences, and if you want to do a balance of starting with two platforms, if you have someone who's skilled on another platform besides your audience's preference, then that's something you can consider as well. Speaker 2 00:13:55 So now you know where you're going to be. You know who's going to do it and you know who you're speaking to. The next step is really figuring out the medium that the the person or that, that team member is comfortable with. Is it writing? Maybe if it's writing, you should focus on LinkedIn content. Maybe you should focus on Twitter. or X threads, maybe blue sky. If it's video, maybe you have a founder that's extremely comfortable on camera, like Shannon here. Maybe you shoot a long form podcast episode and then cut up the clips and create video content. Maybe you have a skillful photographer on your team, or a graphic designer that you can maybe use that content on a platform like Instagram or even X, Twitter or LinkedIn. So identify where your strengths are and then decide on the medium. And another ninja trick. Do not sign up or do not get active on every single platform, just pick one. Just start with one. Because what happens is people get burnt out there. Speaker 2 00:14:58 They're trying to use social media management tools. If you want to reserve your handles on all of the platforms, that's okay. Put a profile picture, put a bio and put your flag in the ground. But pour your energy into the platform where your team member who's or leading this charge is comfortable and you have skills in that medium. And then the last step. Let it rip. Double down and triple down when things work well. If you have a photo post that goes off. Lean into that. If you have a video post that does well. Lean into that, but continue to experiment and just continue to contribute the energy, time, and space into this opportunity. Speaker 1 00:15:40 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. Speaker 1 00:16:02 It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind and come join me across the pond. Okay, I love unpacking all of this. This is such good stuff. A couple of things that I heard, especially when you talk about like your bandwidth, like how much you know, time and energy are you able to dedicate to this? Because there's so like you said, there's so many people out there like you have to post ten times a day, you have to post 20 stories. You know, there's just all of this stuff and you could should yourself to death in this, this realm, right. In the social media realm, you could shoot yourself to death, but it really comes down to what's the bandwidth that you are going to deliver high quality, targeted, unique, authentic information. And if that's once a week and it's good shit, okay, go after it. Speaker 1 00:17:04 You know, like just really understanding what your bandwidth is. On the flip side, I do love the fact of having some sort of consistency, and only because the social media platforms love some sort of consistency. They do like consistency. The algorithms may change, but they really no matter what. I think all of the algorithms are always going to like some sort of consistency. So consider that when you're when you're thinking about your bandwidth. And I do think, Robyn, people just need to hire it out if they don't have it, if you don't have the bandwidth, you've got to hire it out. If you if you think you can not have social media and grow your business in today's world, man, I don't want to tell you you can't. But holy shitballs, you're...
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EP 230 It’s Not the Economy—It’s You: Owning Your Retreat’s Value & Selling with Confidence
07/10/2025
EP 230 It’s Not the Economy—It’s You: Owning Your Retreat’s Value & Selling with Confidence
In this fiery solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth many retreat leaders need to hear: the biggest block in your retreat business isn’t the economy—it’s you. If you’ve ever said, “People just aren’t spending right now,” or felt tempted to lower your prices just to fill spots—this one’s for you. Shannon breaks down the mindset shift that will transform the way you sell your retreats and communicate their true value. She’ll show you how to stop apologizing for your prices, own your worth, and confidently sell your retreat as the life-changing investment it is. Whether you’re hosting your first retreat or scaling your next, this episode is your invitation to stop shrinking and start standing in your power. Tune in and get ready to ditch the discount mindset and step fully into the role of transformational leader. Episode Highlights: Why the economy isn’t the problem (and what is) How perceived value impacts retreat sales What it means to “sell the transformation, not the features” The #1 thing you need to shift before trying another promotion How to speak to your ideal client’s soul—and not the bargain shopper’s wallet Read our full blog here: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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EP 229 How to Level Up as a Retreat Leader (and Build Profitable Retreats Like a Boss)
07/03/2025
EP 229 How to Level Up as a Retreat Leader (and Build Profitable Retreats Like a Boss)
In this solo episode, host Shannon Jamail gets fired up and shares exactly what it means to level up as a retreat leader—and why it goes way beyond fancy goodie bags or extra plush pillows in your yurt. Fresh off a transformative retreat teaching experience in France and actively learning from high-level masterminds like Genius Network, Shannon lays out how growth happens through mentorship, aligned community, and being in the right rooms. She also gets real about the flood of new "retreat coaches" in the industry—and why it’s more important than ever to vet your mentors and follow leaders with lived experience, not just big promises. If you’re ready to stop playing small and start treating your retreats like a real business (with profit, purpose, and power)—this episode is your loving wake-up call. What You’ll Learn: What “leveling up” really means in the retreat world Why who you surround yourself with determines your growth How Shannon’s trip to France & Genius Network shifted her leadership A no-fluff truth bomb about BS in the retreat coaching industry How the Retreat Leader Membership can give you the support you’ve been missing Why treating retreats like a business (not a hobby) is non-negotiable for success Favorite Quote: "You don’t get to the next level by doing the same things and hanging with the same crowd." — Shannon Jamail Read our full blog here The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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EP 228 Dealing with Objections as a Retreat Leader: Compassion Over Discounts
06/26/2025
EP 228 Dealing with Objections as a Retreat Leader: Compassion Over Discounts
In this powerful solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about something every retreat leader will face: objections. Especially the most common one—“It’s too expensive.” But before you spiral into discounting or self-doubt, Shannon shares a refreshing and aligned way to navigate objections with confidence, compassion, and curiosity. This episode is your permission slip to stop taking objections personally and start using them as powerful conversations rooted in leadership. What You’ll Learn: Why “it’s too expensive” usually isn’t about money The #1 thing NOT to do when someone hesitates to book Shannon’s 3-part method to handle objections without losing your power: A Soft Place to Land A Point of Agreement Get Curious How to hold space for transformation (not fear) Why objections are opportunities in disguise Favorite Quote: “Objections aren’t stop signs. They’re starting points.” — Shannon Jamail Read our full blog here: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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EP 227 Sell It Like a Retreat Leader: Why Sales Should Be Your Superpower with Dora Rankin
06/19/2025
EP 227 Sell It Like a Retreat Leader: Why Sales Should Be Your Superpower with Dora Rankin
In this bold and enlightening episode of the Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Dora Rankin, a business growth coach and sales strategist who isn’t afraid to tell retreat leaders the hard truth: you’re likely spending way too much time on marketing and not enough on sales. Dora breaks down the key differences between sales and marketing (hint: they are NOT the same thing!) and explains why retreat leaders should be spending at least 70% of their business-building time focused on actual sales activities. From connecting directly with potential guests to having powerful discovery calls, Dora shows us how marketing is just the invitation—sales is where the transformation (and the bookings) happen. She also dives into the 4 core styles of sales and how to identify which one fits your personality and business model best. Whether you’re a seasoned retreat host or new to the game, this episode will flip your mindset, get you out of hiding behind pretty Instagram posts, and into real, aligned action that fills retreats. What You’ll Learn: The difference between marketing and sales (and why that matters more than you think) Why most retreat leaders are spending their time backwards The 4 ways to sell (and which one fits YOU) How to confidently step into the sales process without feeling slimy or pushy Practical tips to rewire your mindset around visibility, outreach, and relationship-building Connect with Dora Rankin: Website: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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EP 226 Delegate & Elevate: Why Every Retreat Host Needs a Coordinator with Daesha Donze
06/12/2025
EP 226 Delegate & Elevate: Why Every Retreat Host Needs a Coordinator with Daesha Donze
In this powerhouse episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail sits down with luxury retreat designer and director Daesha Donze to talk all things logistics, style, and sanity-saving support for retreat hosts. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed trying to juggle planning, hosting, and actually enjoying your own retreat—this episode is your permission slip to hand over the clipboard and reclaim your energy. Episode Highlights: Why hiring a retreat planner or coordinator is a total game-changer (Spoiler: so you can finally enjoy your own retreat) How Daesha tailors each event to the host’s brand, vibe, and clientele The difference between hosting and directing—and why you shouldn’t do both A quick dive into Seller of Travel laws and how Daesha can legally book and sell travel worldwide Her high-touch services: VIP Planning Sessions, Done-for-You Planning, On-Site Coordination, and VIP Weekends Whether you’re planning your first retreat or looking to level up your next luxury mastermind, Daesha’s insights will leave you inspired (and ready to hand over the spreadsheets). 🛠️ Listener Freebie: Grab Daesha’s Free Retreat Planning Logistics Checklist! Connect with Daesha: Instagram: Tune in now to learn how to transform your retreat experience from stressed-out host to fully present powerhouse. You deserve to lead with ease—and Daesha shows us how. About Daesha My name is Daeha Donze. I am a Luxury Retreat Designer & Director. I do everything from brainstorming with retreat hosts, to planning and doing everything for them, to being on-site coordinating the retreat. Coming from a background in fashion, my passion is styling the retreat to the retreat host, her clients, and the brand. I work with influential leaders that are creating movements and want to go deep with their clients in person. From masterminds, to wellness retreats, to larger scale events, I am there to take the stress and overwhelm of coordinating in-person events and replace it with a seamless experience while having the time of our lives. MY SERVICES/HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER: VIP Planning Session, DFY Retreat Planning, On-Site Coordination, & VIP Weekends The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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EP 225 Boundaries, Burnout & Breakthroughs: Retreat Wisdom with Lesley Martin
06/05/2025
EP 225 Boundaries, Burnout & Breakthroughs: Retreat Wisdom with Lesley Martin
In this powerful episode of the Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail welcomes trauma therapist and retreat coach Lesley Martin for a raw and insightful conversation about the emotional resilience and energetic boundaries required to lead transformational retreats. Lesley and Shannon dive deep into the often overlooked emotional toll retreat leaders face, especially when carrying their own unhealed trauma or managing the weight of participants’ needs. They discuss how coaching and self-reflection can help retreat leaders grow beyond the therapy room, create healthier emotional boundaries, and avoid the path to burnout. You’ll also get an inside look at Lesley’s upcoming Morocco retreat for burned-out entrepreneurs, designed to help participants reset through cultural immersion, desert meditation, and intentional stillness in the Sahara. Episode Highlights: Why retreat leaders must address their own trauma to serve powerfully Energetic boundaries and grounding practices to prevent burnout Behind the scenes of Lesley’s Morocco retreat: A transformational journey for service-based pros Coaching vs. therapy: When it’s time to level up your personal growth Tools like Lesley’s new digital workbook to reimagine what’s possible Special offers for podcast listeners including a $200 discount on Lesley’s upcoming retreat Whether you're navigating your own healing or simply want to hold space more effectively, this episode is filled with heartfelt wisdom, practical tools, and real talk about what it takes to lead (and live) with intention. About Leslie Lesley is the coach, guide, and mentor for entrepreneurs and professionals who’ve been through trauma or adversity and now want to feel better and live more authentic and fulfilling lives. She helps empower people to change their lives for the better. Lesley brings over 20 years of knowledge and training as a holistic psychotherapist into her work to benefit her clients. Her approach is holistic, and she incorporates psychological, meditative, intuitive, and spiritual practices to help her clients heal, deepen their connection, and thrive. She completed her Bachelor of Arts in Contemplative World Religions from Naropa University in Boulder, CO, and her Master of Arts in Mental Health Counseling from Medaille College. In 2021, Lesley completed a certification program in Life Coaching through The Life Coach School. Lesley is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in New York State and is the founder of WNY Holistic Counseling, A Whole-Person Approach to Therapy. She is also the founder of Blue Lotus Soul Coaching, where she utilizes Life Coaching to help her clients live unencumbered, whole-hearted lives. She offers Akashic Records Readings, Trauma Clearing Sessions, Oracle Card Spreads, Psychotherapy Sessions, 1:1 Coaching Packages and unique Retreat Experiences. Connect with Leslie Free Gifts: $200 discount off the Sahara Soul Awakening Retreat if the participant mentions this episode: Possibility Pie workbook: The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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EP 224 The Power of Story: How to Sell Out Retreats with Authentic Marketing featuring Renee Frojo
05/29/2025
EP 224 The Power of Story: How to Sell Out Retreats with Authentic Marketing featuring Renee Frojo
In this inspiring episode of the Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail sits down with journalist-turned-content-marketer and storytelling coach, Renee Frojo, to explore how powerful storytelling can transform your retreat business from “meh” to sold out. Renee shares her journey from the newsroom to coaching B2B and B2C entrepreneurs on connecting with their audience in the most human way possible—through story. After selling out her very first international retreat in Costa Rica using just stories and intention (not a massive follower count), she’s now hosting her second retreat in Mexico City, and trust us—you’ll want in on what she’s teaching. 🔥 Episode Highlights: The secret to selling out retreats without a giant following Why storytelling is your most underrated sales and marketing tool How to align your brand story with your personal values—and why it matters The role of authenticity and connection in community-building Tips for using your “why” to build stronger marketing narratives Whether you’re planning your first retreat or scaling your transformational business, this episode is a masterclass in meaningful, human-first marketing that actually works. 📍Learn more about Renee’s upcoming Mexico retreat focused on sustainable business, soulful growth, and the future of work. Connect with her at Connect with Renee The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together! Subscribe: | |
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