Episode 27 - A Conversation with Simon(e) van Saarloos: Disintegrating Linear Timelines -- NY Art Bookfair
Release Date: 10/20/2025
The Breakup Theory Episode 30 - WE ARE NOW LIVING IN THE HELLSCAPE OF POETIC SCIENCE w/ P.
The Breakup Theory
In this episode, I talk to my eternal roommate, P, about his new book, God, Artificial Intelligence, and Me. This is a really ambitious text that weaves together personal history with the history of Christianity, colonialism, technology, warfare, and resistance. It is a beautiful object in itself, with illustrations and pictures and innovative layout of text. It looks like a monster of a tome (and it definitely encompasses a cosmos), but P tries to draw the reader in without overwhelming them. I strongly suggesting purchasing the book. And just by luck, P runs a distro, A Boulder on the Tracks...
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Episode 29 - Living with Trans Despair with Simon(e) van Saarloos
The Breakup Theory
Today I am presenting a talk that Simon(e) van Saarloos and I did, kind of as a followup to our last talk together at the NYC Art Bookfair, called “Living with Trans Despair.” I’m going to give you the origin and details of the event before I present the edited recording of the event itself., so this is a bit of a long introduction. The idea to make a sequel came in the initial planning of our first talk about Simon’s book, , as we discovered we were both in the process of writing books dealing with despair. The circumstances of the event were particularly special: a friend of ours and...
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Episode 28 - Jaime Grant on What We Can Do Intimately With Each Other
The Breakup Theory
In this episode, Caroline and I talk to the wonderful Dr. Jaime M. Grant, Sex and Intimacy Coach, Researcher, Writer, and longtime Activist. She has recently published , after her previous contribution to the series, . (Yes, it’s that series!) Jaime has also written a book and been leading a workshop for many years around the world on mapping your desire, helping people get in touch with what they actually like and want and perhaps have not been able to access. Jaime has been involved in queer and racial justice movements for decades, as well as doing survivor support, research on trans...
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Episode 27 - A Conversation with Simon(e) van Saarloos: Disintegrating Linear Timelines -- NY Art Bookfair
The Breakup Theory
CW: This discussion mentions childhood sexual abuse When Simon(e) van Saarloos invited me to be in conversation with them at the surrounding their recently published , I was honored and excited. We had already been discussing recording a conversation for the Breakup Theory, so it was serendipitous that this event came along. I love doing the podcast, but it’s really exciting for me to do public talks and get to engage directly with people. Simon and I met before the event and we found that we were able to really push each other’s thinking into interesting and exciting places, so we...
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Episode 26 - Agony Letter: The Thing That Cracks Us Open
The Breakup Theory
CW: brief mention of suicidal ideation Oh my god, we are so back! As with everyone, this has been a year of hell, or lead paint, or whatever, and I have only been able to release a few episodes. But let me tell you, I am sitting on a few waiting to be edited and have plans for more, getting back into a regular production. For this episode, I invited the beautiful Dean Spade to respond to a listener letter with me. He has started up a in the wake of his book, with the same name , where has been discussing relationships and giving advice about how we can fight and love together better....
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Episode 25 - Practices that Do the Unchoosing with Nat Raha and Mijke van der Drift
The Breakup Theory
In this episode, I speak with two beautiful trans writers, artists, thinkers, Nat Raha and Mijke van der Drift. They recently published with Pluto Books. Their book describes an expansive ethics of collectivity, care, and complicity from the perspective of trans femme knowledge and experience. Nat and Mijke developed the book over the last number of years through different iterations as a zine and a conference, but also as an offering from many years of organizing, not just for trans liberation, but for all people. In reading the book, I found, you take on a slight altering in language as...
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Episode 24 - Putting Ghosts in Their Graves (another letter with Caroline)
The Breakup Theory
In this episode, Caroline and I respond to a letter from a listener who is trying to navigate a tricky relationship. It is a relationship with a lot of fuzziness, moving from romantic and sexual to friends. There are also attempts at real conversation, though they aren’t always clear, producing a difficult dynamic to understand and find bearings. They know they need to end it—or at least take space from it—but they also are tied into the queer anarchist community in a small town that centers around this person’s house. As they say, they are trying to put the ghost back in its grave,...
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Episode 23 - Dean Spade on How We Act When Things Get Really Hard
The Breakup Theory
Today I’m sharing a conversation I had with one of my favorites, Dean Spade, about his recent book out with Algonquin Books. Dean has been an inspiration for a long time with his commitments to abolition, anti-Zionism, and trans liberation, among other things. His previous book, , came at a perfect moment when people were getting together in response to COVID-19 and the George Floyd Uprising. This new book has also appeared right when we need it, when we feel worn down and scared, and need to find better ways to connect with each other. His thinking here lines up very closely with the...
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Episode 22 - In Memoriam Joshua Clover, a Rerelease from The Final Straw Radio 2021
The Breakup Theory
Today I’m re-releasing a conversation I recorded for the Final Straw Radio with Joshua Clover in 2021. Our conversation focuses around his 2016 book Riot. Strike. Riot, in part within the context of the George Floyd rebellion. I wanted to present this conversation in memoriam of Joshua, who we learned last week had died. As many of the testimonials you can find online, Joshua was a great friend and comrade to a wide range of people. He is remembered not just as a poet and an academic thinker, but also as someone ready to throw down in the streets. I didn’t know him really beyond his work...
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Episode 21 - Breaking Up With Your Therapist w/ Shuli and Caroline
The Breakup Theory
In today’s episode, Caroline and I respond to a listener’s letter about breaking up with their psychoanalyst after five years. Right now, there is such an emphasis on therapy as a means to address trauma, as well as to adjust to the terror of the current conditions in the world. There is also a whole industry of self-help that coincides with shaming of people by individualizing their faults and failures. We may all need therapy to a certain extent—but when do we end it? Breaking up with a therapist is a kind of practice breakup: it’s a controlled environment where you can exercise your...
info_outlineCW: This discussion mentions childhood sexual abuse
When Simon(e) van Saarloos invited me to be in conversation with them at the New York Artbook Fair surrounding their recently published Against Ageism: A Queer Manifesto (MACK Books), I was honored and excited. We had already been discussing recording a conversation for the Breakup Theory, so it was serendipitous that this event came along. I love doing the podcast, but it’s really exciting for me to do public talks and get to engage directly with people. Simon and I met before the event and we found that we were able to really push each other’s thinking into interesting and exciting places, so we anticipated a good conversation. It also turned out that we are both working on books about despair—theirs is the upcoming Trans Despair through AK Press. Mine will be out late next year . . . shhhh, it’s a secret.
If you haven’t yet had a chance to read Against Ageism, I’ll give a brief set up. Simon writes in a hybrid personal, theoretical, and sometimes academic style (i.e. citations of academic work). This style really invites you in to their deep consideration of embodied existence, age, sex, and gender. The book is very provocative in many ways, which I’ll allow you to hear about in our conversation. It turns out age is a very rich entry point into thinking about a whole tangle of things we take for granted about how we live. Of particular interest for me was the approach to different ways of thinking about time, crip time, linear time, racialized time, queer time all opposed to the cishetero narratives of growing up.
I have typically taken an approach to thinking about age from a perspective of youth and youth liberation, specifically addressing the situation of trans kids. In this book, Simon focuses a bit more on the so-called older ages, perception, and relationship—and also death and grief. All of these issues Simon intimately connects to sexuality and desire and the experience of transness and queerness they have had (and that other people might share and understand).
This episode comes directly from a recorded conversation at MoMA PS 1 in Queens, NY, so the format is different than normal episodes. I am grateful for MoMA PS 1 and Printed Matter (who hosted the bookfair) making this recording and sharing it with me.
Simon and I found this conversation so generative that we are planning another—so if you like this one, look forward to another on a different timeline.
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The Breakup Theory is a member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts, which pulls together a wide variety of shows taking an anarchist perspective on culture, politics, actions, and more. Check them out at https://channelzeronetwork.com.