Episode 4 | The Last Mughals | William Dalrymple
Frieze Masters Podcast
'Bahadur Shah Zafar writes poetry in six different languages and through the sheer brilliance of his example, he provokes this last great renaissance in Delhi.' – William Darymple In the fourth episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast 2025, writer and broadcaster William Dalrymple discusses the art, poetry and politics of the last Mughals with curator Arturo Galansino. Together, they uncover the lesser-known histories of one of the defining chapters in the history of the Indian subcontinent – challenging...
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Episode 3: Black Atlas | Edward George & Matthew Harle
Frieze Masters Podcast
The Image of the Black archive at The Warburg Institute comprises more than 30,000 images documenting representations of people of African descent from antiquity to the civil rights era. In 2025, images from this collection were shown in public for the first time as part of ‘Black Atlas’, an exhibition and moving-image essay directed by Edward George and produced by Matthew Harle – Arturo Galansino’s guests on the third episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast 2025. Together, they discuss the legacy of Black imagery and its ability to reveal more than the creator’s intention. The...
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Episode 2: An Encounter in Spiritual Spaces with Mark Rothko and Fra Angelico | Christopher Rothko & Carl Strehlke
Frieze Masters Podcast
When Mark Rothko visited Fra Angelico’s frescoes at the convent of San Marco in Florence, he was ‘overwhelmed,’ recounts his son, the psychologist and writer Christopher Rothko. ‘That’s what he wanted for his viewer,’ says Rothko, ‘to look at his artwork as sources of inspiration, spirituality and contemplation.’ In the second episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast 2025, Christopher Rothko is in conversation with curator and art historian Carl Strehlke and Arturo Galansino, director general of Palazzo...
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Episode 1: Confessions in the Museum | Tracey Emin, Nicholas Cullinan & Arturo Galansino
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘My discovery of early Renaissance art was completely by accident in the National Gallery, by just walking down a few more stairs...I'd stay there for about an hour, and then I would come out, I'd close my eyes, and as I pushed the doors, I would imagine my paintings’. –Tracey Emin In the first episode of the 2025 Frieze Masters Podcast, artist Tracey Emin, Nicholas Cullinan (director, British Museum), and their host Arturo Galansino (Director General, Fondazione Palazzo Strozzi) discuss their early experiences and evolving...
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Episode 7: Plastic Power | Abraham Thomas, Nathalie du Pasquier & Annabelle Selldorf
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘When you make a painting, you want to make a good painting. You are more interested in the composition of the things, than in the precise description of the things.’ – Nathalie Du Pasquier In the seventh and final episode of Series 3 of the Frieze Masters Podcast, artist Nathalie Du Pasquier, architect Annabelle Selldorf and Curator Abraham Thomas discuss the plasticity of the creative environment, and the collisions and contrasts between the visions of artists, architects and curators. Nathalie du Pasquier is an artist and co-founder of the Memphis design group in the...
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Episode 6: Pictorial Language & Poetic Translations | Glenn Ligon, Zoé Whitley & Dia al-Azzawi
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘If I can let the viewer stand in front of my painting and question – if they can ask a question – this is success.’ – Glenn Ligon How does the written and spoken word relate to the visual language of painting, sculpture and installation? To discuss this connection and the power and potential of poetry, the sixth episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast brings together artists Glenn Ligon and Dia al-Azzawi and Chisenhale Director Zoé Whitley. Glenn Ligon is a New York-based artist whose career has explored history, literature and society through painting and...
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Episode 5: The State We're In | Mark Leckey, Jenny Waldman & Polly Staple
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘What’s left for art? Art can offer ritual and ceremony, a communal place where bodies can gather. It’s a place where things can happen visually, musically, sonically, and in dance and with the voice.’ – Mark Leckey In the fifth episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast, artist Mark Leckey, curator Polly Staple and Director of Art Fund Jenny Waldman reflect on the legacy and future of British art and discuss how it might expand its reach to engage young and underrepresented audiences. Mark Leckey is a Turner Prize-winning artist whose work is infused with popular...
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Episode 4: Spatial Intelligence | Nairy Baghramian, Glenn Lowry & Julian Rose
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘Isn’t to exhibit to historicize?’ – Julian Rose Artist Nairy Baghramian, Director of the Museum of Modern Art Glenn Lowry and historian Julian Rose all have extensive experience of presenting art in public places and thinking about civic spaces. In the fourth episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast, they come together to rethink the role and design of museums in shaping cultural exchange. Nairy Baghramian is an artist whose sculptures offer new ways to address the architectural, social and political conditions of contemporary culture; Glenn Lowry is director of...
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Episode 3: The Power of Painting | Gabriele Finaldi, Jan Dalley & Shirazeh Houshiary
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘The viewer makes the painting alive. Without the viewer, that thing doesn't exist.’ – Shirazeh Houshiary What happens to our understanding of painting when we expand the canon across eras and cultures? In the third episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast, artist Shirazeh Houshiary, Director of the National Gallery Gabriele Finaldi and arts editor Jan Dalley reflect on the celebration and subversion of narrative through painting. Shirazeh Houshiary is an Iran-born, London-based artist, working in painting and sculpture; Gabriele Finaldi is Director of the National Gallery...
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Episode 2: Faces of Community | Barbara Walker, Ming Smith & Lou Stoppard
Frieze Masters Podcast
‘You have an idea and it goes off in another direction and you either pull it back or you go on the journey. I knew I wanted to make some portraits, but I also knew I didn't want to. I wanted to create some tension.’ – Barbara Walker In the second episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast, artists Barbara Walker and Ming Smith, and writer and curator Lou Stoppard discuss the evolution of portraiture and ask how it can better reflect and build community. Barbara Walker is a British artist whose work interrogates power, identity and the visibility of Black experience; Ming Smith...
info_outline'Bahadur Shah Zafar writes poetry in six different languages and through the sheer brilliance of his example, he provokes this last great renaissance in Delhi.' – William Darymple
In the fourth episode of the Frieze Masters Podcast 2025, writer and broadcaster William Dalrymple discusses the art, poetry and politics of the last Mughals with curator Arturo Galansino. Together, they uncover the lesser-known histories of one of the defining chapters in the history of the Indian subcontinent – challenging colonial narratives and exploring what survives of the Mughals’ legacy today.
The Frieze Masters Talks programme and the Frieze Masters Podcast are brought to you by Frieze in collaboration with dunhill.
About the speakers
William Dalrymple is a historian, broadcaster and writer. He is joined by Arturo Galansino, art historian, curator, director general of the Fondazione Palazzo Strozzi in Florence and this year’s curator of the Frieze Masters Talks programme.
About the Frieze Masters Podcast
The Frieze Masters Podcast is back for 2025, bringing you seven conversations across art history curated by Arturo Galansino (Director General of Fondazione Palazzo Strozzi in Florence).
Entitled ‘Woven Histories’ and recorded live at Frieze Masters 2025, this year’s series features artists, curators and thinkers, whose conversations weave together geographies and chronologies, and challenge us to look at history in new and unexpected ways.
Topics range from the evolving relationship between fashion and art to the role of the archive in Black history, the last Mughals and their cultural influence in India and the enduring inspiration of the old masters and renaissance art on contemporary making. Speakers include artists Tracey Emin, Glenn Brown and Antony Gormley, museum directors and curators Nicholas Cullinan, Émilie Hammen, Elizabeth Way and Carl Strehlke, and writers Edward George, Matthew Harle, Christopher Rothko and William Dalrymple.
Listen now on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
The Frieze Masters Talks programme and the Frieze Masters Podcast are brought to you by Frieze in collaboration with dunhill.
Image credit: Ghulam Murtaza Khan, Akbar II in darbar with the British Resident Charles Metcalfe, ca. 1811-15. Cincinnati Art Museum, The William T. and Louise Taft Semple Collection, 1962.458