32. When Customer Education and L&D Collide with Debbie Smith
Release Date: 06/25/2025
32. When Customer Education and L&D Collide with Debbie Smith
L&D Must Change
L&D and customer education are similar, but not the same. There is a lot L&D can learn from this parallel profession. In this episode, Debbie Smith joins Jess Almlie to reveal the secrets of successful customer education that L&D should adopt as their own. They discuss why learners should feel empowered, not controlled whether or not those learners are external customers. As well as how L&D can adopt the data-driven, outcome-focused mindset that customer education requires. Jess and Debbie discuss The top priorities of customer education vs. L&D. The...
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31. Context Over Content with Candice Mitchell
L&D Must Change
Too often, training misses the mark because it skips the most important step. In this episode of L&D Must Change, Candice Mitchell joins Jess Almlie to unpack why context should always come before content in L&D. Candice shares practical strategies for uncovering business needs, building credibility, and shifting away from the traditional order-taker mindset. From gathering macro trends to asking the right stakeholder questions, she illustrates how deeper context leads to faster and more relevant learning solutions. Tune in for a lively, honest conversation full of actionable insights...
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30. Think Like a Marketer with Mike Taylor and Bianca Baumann
L&D Must Change
What happens when L&D professionals start thinking like marketers? In this episode, Jess Almlie talks with Mike Taylor and Bianca Baumann about how adopting a marketing mindset can transform learning experiences. From learner personas to emotional storytelling and irresistible content design, they share real-world strategies and small shifts with big impact. Discover how to connect more deeply with learners and elevate engagement through their new book, Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro. Jess, Mike, and Bianca discuss The benefits of L&D adopting a marketer...
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29. Flipping the Script on Your L&D Career with Sarah Cannistra
L&D Must Change
Think you need a fancy job title to land your dream L&D role? Think again. In this episode of L&D Must Change, Jess sits down with Sarah Cannistra, L&D career coach, author of Land Your Next L&D Role, and passionate advocate for breaking out of the "one and done" career mindset. Together, they unravel why L&D professionals often don't apply their own learning philosophies to their own career growth and how to change that. If you’re an L&D pro ready to rethink your path and future-proof your career, this conversation is your new roadmap. Sarah and Jess...
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28. Maturing the L&D Function with David James
L&D Must Change
Imagine a world where L&D is a driving force behind business transformation, not just a provider of training. In this episode, David James, former Disney L&D leader and current CLO of 360Learning shares why realizing this vision requires L&D to mature beyond reactive and even proactive operational models. He introduces a new L&D maturity model that lays out a clear roadmap for that shift and explains why this evolution is more urgent than ever. This conversation offers both inspiration and a practical starting point for what’s next. Jess and David discuss The need for...
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27. Rethinking Performance Feedback with Dr. Sandra Mashihi and Dr. Kenneth M. Nowack
L&D Must Change
Good feedback fuels performance and behavior change. Poor feedback does the opposite. It’s one of the most powerful tools in a leader’s toolkit, yet one of the hardest to get right. In this episode, Dr. Ken Nowack and Dr. Sandra Mashihi unpack why feedback often fails, and how L&D can help leaders build the skills to deliver it in ways that actually drive results. From the neuroscience of feedback to practical models like the 3E framework and 4-quadrant approach, Ken and Sandra offer L&D professionals a clear path to elevating feedback across the organization. What You'll...
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26. AI Isn't a Tool; It's a Team Member with Josh Penzell
L&D Must Change
Everyone’s talking about AI—but are we thinking about it the right way? In this special one-year anniversary episode, I finally dive into the AI conversation with Josh Penzell, who challenges us to see AI not as a tool, but as a teammate. This conversation isn’t about learning prompts—it’s about shifting mindsets and imagining what’s possible when we stop trying to make faster horses and start building something entirely new. Josh and Jess Discuss Using AI as a collaborative team member and not a tool. Working with AI as a brainstorming partner to reduce cognitive load and...
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25. L&D in the Startup World with Tom Bowen
L&D Must Change
When does the L&D function form in an organization? What's the first order of business when it does? Today's guest, Tom Bowen, is known as the L&D pro who can get an L&D function up and running in the startup world and he's done that job over and over again. He even calls himself a "serial startup guy" for L&D. In this episode, Tom will share what it's like to be the first L&D pro hired into a small start-up business including when he's usually brought in, what he does first, and what makes working in L&D in the startup world unique. Jess and Tom...
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24. What L&D Can Learn From Product Management with Rashi Kakkar
L&D Must Change
There's nothing I love more than when someone takes on an L&D role from another industry and becomes immediately confused as to why our profession functions the way it does. It provides an immediate opportunity for new ideas and conversation. This was the case for today's guest, Rashi Kakkar, when she moved from a career consulting in product management into an L&D leadership role. The result was a marriage of the two professions. One where the best pieces from each were elevated and the confusing bits eliminated. It turns out L&D can learn a lot from product management. ...
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23. Is It Time to Ditch Your LMS? with Sarah Mercier
L&D Must Change
How do you feel about your LMS? If you're like most you may have a love + hate relationship with the platform. Today's guest, Sarah Mercier, found herself working with client after client trying to solve clunky LMS issues, so she threw out the LMS playbook and created an alternate tool. What does that mean for you? Well, you just might not need your LMS any longer. Sarah and Jess discuss: The evolution of learning platforms Ongoing issues with traditional LMS systems like complexities in user access, content delivery, and data fragmentation The creation of the new, XCL tool,...
info_outlineL&D and customer education are similar, but not the same. There is a lot L&D can learn from this parallel profession. In this episode, Debbie Smith joins Jess Almlie to reveal the secrets of successful customer education that L&D should adopt as their own. They discuss why learners should feel empowered, not controlled whether or not those learners are external customers. As well as how L&D can adopt the data-driven, outcome-focused mindset that customer education requires.
Jess and Debbie discuss
- The top priorities of customer education vs. L&D.
- The differences in designing for voluntary vs. captive audiences.
- Applying Mayer's 12 principles of multimedia design combined with cognitive load theory.
- Using adoption paired with company drivers and goals as measures for success.
- Tracking patterns of behavior change long term.
- Focusing on long-term business impact.
About Debbie Smith
Debbie is the Senior Director of Visier University and president of CEDMA (Customer Education Management Association). She is a Customer Education (CE) leader with extensive experience in CE strategy, certification, instructional design, eLearning design and development, customer experience, and project management. As a member of the CE community, she is a sought-after mentor and thought leader in the growth and evolution of the industry. She has led large and small teams at various SaaS companies and serves on a number of customer advisory boards. She has contributed to two books, multiple podcasts, and webinars. She is a frequent speaker at industry conferences.
Find and connect with Debbie Smith
- Website: Visier University
- Website: CEDMA
- DevLearn Conference 2025
Find and connect with Jess Almlie
- Website: jessalmlie.com
- L&D Must Change Newsletter
- Book: L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner
Additional Links from the Show
- Article: Mayer's 12 Principles of Multimedia Learning
- Article: Cognitive Load Theory and Instructional Design
Now Available! Jess's book, L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner, published by ATD Press, is now available for pre-order wherever books are sold! To learn more and be the first to get behind-the-scenes updates, early sneak peeks, and join the virtual launch party, join Jess's email list! You'll get the L&D Must Change newsletter delivered to your inbox weekly as well as special updates on the book when available. Click here to join!