32. When Customer Education and L&D Collide with Debbie Smith
Release Date: 06/25/2025
53. AI in L&D: Overreliance, Resistance, or Exuberance? with Timothy Frost
L&D Must Change
Many L&D teams are being asked to “train the business on AI”… but what does that really mean? In this episode, Jess and Timothy Frost unpack the tension shaping AI in Learning and Talent Development: overreliance, resistance, and exuberance. They explore how these mindsets show up in your daily work, impact learning quality, and influence how you use AI. They also tackle the growing pressure on L&D teams to lead company-wide AI training and share a more strategic approach grounded in clear goals, data, and real use cases. If you are trying to figure out how to use AI without...
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52. The Role of L&D in Frontline Success with JD Dillon
L&D Must Change
Eighty percent of the global workforce is doing frontline work, yet, most L&D strategies are built from a corporate perspective. That's a mismatch. In this episode, Jess welcomes JD Dillon, author of "The Frontline Enablement Playbook," for a candid conversation about why the frontline workforce requires a fundamentally different enablement approach than the one designed for corporate employees. From rethinking leadership development to getting L&D professionals onto the floor alongside the people they support, this episode is a practical call to action for every talent professional...
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51. Rethinking Microlearning with Robyn A. Defelice
L&D Must Change
Microlearning sounds simple. It’s not. In this episode, Jess sits down with Robyn Defelice to unpack why microlearning often fails and what L&D pros are getting wrong. They explore the critical shift from covering content to making intentional decisions, why misalignment derails projects, and how to actually use microlearning as part of a broader learning strategy. If you’ve ever been asked to “just make it shorter,” this conversation will change how you think about design, stakeholders, and impact. Jess and Robyn Discuss Why L&D must shift from content coverage to...
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50. Design Learning Beyond Courses with Mark Britz
L&D Must Change
What if your real job in L&D isn’t to build better courses, but to design better conditions for learning? In this episode, Mark Britz challenges us to step outside the L&D box and examine the larger ecosystem shaping performance every day. Through powerful stories and practical examples, Jess and Mark explore how control, efficiency, and legacy systems can unintentionally block learning. Instead of asking “What training should I create?” you’ll be invited to ask, “What environment am I designing?” This conversation will stretch how you see your role and the impact you can...
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49. World Learning Content Cleanup Day with Ger Driesen
L&D Must Change
Is your L&D content closet getting a bit cluttered? When was the last time you cleaned it up? In this episode, Jess sits down with Ger Driesen, founder of World Learning Content Cleanup Day (#WLLCD), to challenge L&D’s obsession with creation over maintenance. They explore why outdated learning erodes credibility, how to adopt a "retire by default" mindset, and how a simple annual cleanup can uncover powerful data insights. Let's reduce risk and increase the benefits of our content together with a cleanup celebration. Jess and Ger Discuss Why L&D teams prioritize...
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48. Choosing the Right L&D Tech with Becky Willis
L&D Must Change
Choosing the right L&D technology can feel overwhelming when every platform promises transformation. In this episode, Jess and learning strategist Becky Willis cut through the noise to talk about how to evaluate learning tech with a critical eye. They explore how to separate real capability from marketing hype, what AI should actually be doing behind the scenes, and how to make smart technology decisions even when budget or legacy systems get in the way. If tech decisions stress you out, this conversation will help. Jess and Becky Discuss Why legacy LMSs were built for course...
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47. Robots vs. Humans: Storytelling and AI with Stephanie Hubka
L&D Must Change
AI can spit out an L&D outline in seconds, but it cannot create connection. In this episode, Jess Almlie talks with Stephanie Hubka about why storytelling is the missing ingredient in a world of fast, transactional training. They break down how to choose stories with intention using the SOL framework, how to design learning through story using scenarios and choose-your-own-adventure techniques, and how to use AI as a partner without outsourcing the best parts of your craft. You will leave ready to start a story journal and humanize your learning. Jess and Stephanie Discuss How AI...
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46. Using PIPs for Development, Not Discipline with Amy Kay Watson
L&D Must Change
Let's be real. Most Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs) don't actually improve performance. They're a legal termination plan in disguise. That doesn't make anyone feel good. But, they don't have to be this way! In this episode, Jess talks with coach and culture consultant Amy Kay Watson about rebooting accountability so performance improvement becomes a true development process instead of a disciplinary paper trail. Amy breaks down why most PIPs don't include learning or development and then shares a practical model built designed to restore psychological safety, clarify standards, and build...
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45. Ensure Learning is Worth the Expense with Melanie Martinelli
L&D Must Change
Your learners loved the course… and then nothing changed. In this episode, Jess talks with Melanie Martinelli (Institute for Transfer Effectiveness) about why L&D’s obsession with “great training” often fails at the only thing that matters: on-the-job application. You’ll unpack the 12 Levers of Learning Transfer, learn how to run a quick transfer audit, and hear a case study where a clunky old e-learning outperformed a shiny new one. All because the ecosystem mattered more than the content. Jess and Melanie discuss Why L&D “falls in love with the solution” instead...
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44. Facilitating Engagement Isn't Enough with Brian Washburn
L&D Must Change
Your learners don’t need another “fun” workshop; they need results. In this episode, Jess and Brian Washburn unpack why engagement alone is a dangerous success metric and how to design for real performance change. Brian introduces his simple four-step facilitation model: Anchor, Content, Application, Future Use, which turns any session into a repeatable, effective learning experience. They explore how to equip SMEs to facilitate (without gimmicks), handle awkward moments like silence or “I don’t know,” and adapt these principles for virtual and global audiences. Why engagement...
info_outlineL&D and customer education are similar, but not the same. There is a lot L&D can learn from this parallel profession. In this episode, Debbie Smith joins Jess Almlie to reveal the secrets of successful customer education that L&D should adopt as their own. They discuss why learners should feel empowered, not controlled whether or not those learners are external customers. As well as how L&D can adopt the data-driven, outcome-focused mindset that customer education requires.
Jess and Debbie discuss
- The top priorities of customer education vs. L&D.
- The differences in designing for voluntary vs. captive audiences.
- Applying Mayer's 12 principles of multimedia design combined with cognitive load theory.
- Using adoption paired with company drivers and goals as measures for success.
- Tracking patterns of behavior change long term.
- Focusing on long-term business impact.
About Debbie Smith
Debbie is the Senior Director of Visier University and president of CEDMA (Customer Education Management Association). She is a Customer Education (CE) leader with extensive experience in CE strategy, certification, instructional design, eLearning design and development, customer experience, and project management. As a member of the CE community, she is a sought-after mentor and thought leader in the growth and evolution of the industry. She has led large and small teams at various SaaS companies and serves on a number of customer advisory boards. She has contributed to two books, multiple podcasts, and webinars. She is a frequent speaker at industry conferences.
Find and connect with Debbie Smith
- Website: Visier University
- Website: CEDMA
- DevLearn Conference 2025
Find and connect with Jess Almlie
- Website: jessalmlie.com
- L&D Must Change Newsletter
- Book: L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner
Additional Links from the Show
- Article: Mayer's 12 Principles of Multimedia Learning
- Article: Cognitive Load Theory and Instructional Design
Now Available! Jess's book, L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner, published by ATD Press, is now available for pre-order wherever books are sold! To learn more and be the first to get behind-the-scenes updates, early sneak peeks, and join the virtual launch party, join Jess's email list! You'll get the L&D Must Change newsletter delivered to your inbox weekly as well as special updates on the book when available. Click here to join!