32. When Customer Education and L&D Collide with Debbie Smith
Release Date: 06/25/2025
47. Robots vs. Humans: Storytelling and AI with Stephanie Hubka
L&D Must Change
AI can spit out an L&D outline in seconds, but it cannot create connection. In this episode, Jess Almlie talks with Stephanie Hubka about why storytelling is the missing ingredient in a world of fast, transactional training. They break down how to choose stories with intention using the SOL framework, how to design learning through story using scenarios and choose-your-own-adventure techniques, and how to use AI as a partner without outsourcing the best parts of your craft. You will leave ready to start a story journal and humanize your learning. Jess and Stephanie Discuss How AI...
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46. Using PIPs for Development, Not Discipline with Amy Kay Watson
L&D Must Change
Let's be real. Most Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs) don't actually improve performance. They're a legal termination plan in disguise. That doesn't make anyone feel good. But, they don't have to be this way! In this episode, Jess talks with coach and culture consultant Amy Kay Watson about rebooting accountability so performance improvement becomes a true development process instead of a disciplinary paper trail. Amy breaks down why most PIPs don't include learning or development and then shares a practical model built designed to restore psychological safety, clarify standards, and build...
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45. Ensure Learning is Worth the Expense with Melanie Martinelli
L&D Must Change
Your learners loved the course… and then nothing changed. In this episode, Jess talks with Melanie Martinelli (Institute for Transfer Effectiveness) about why L&D’s obsession with “great training” often fails at the only thing that matters: on-the-job application. You’ll unpack the 12 Levers of Learning Transfer, learn how to run a quick transfer audit, and hear a case study where a clunky old e-learning outperformed a shiny new one. All because the ecosystem mattered more than the content. Jess and Melanie discuss Why L&D “falls in love with the solution” instead...
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44. Facilitating Engagement Isn't Enough with Brian Washburn
L&D Must Change
Your learners don’t need another “fun” workshop; they need results. In this episode, Jess and Brian Washburn unpack why engagement alone is a dangerous success metric and how to design for real performance change. Brian introduces his simple four-step facilitation model: Anchor, Content, Application, Future Use, which turns any session into a repeatable, effective learning experience. They explore how to equip SMEs to facilitate (without gimmicks), handle awkward moments like silence or “I don’t know,” and adapt these principles for virtual and global audiences. Why engagement...
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43. What AI Means for Your L&D Job with Josh Cavalier
L&D Must Change
AI isn’t coming for your L&D job... it’s rewriting it. In this episode, Jess and AI-in-L&D veteran Josh Cavalier dig into his provocative “Human Machine Performance Analyst” L&D role, why content creation is still on the table, and how to build the business, data, and learning-science muscles you’ll actually need. They unpack the real story behind AI layoffs, the emerging L&D tech ecosystem, and practical, low-risk ways to get your AI learning and practice reps in today. Jess and Josh Discuss Why Josh believes L&D must evolve into “Human Machine Performance...
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42. Organizing L&D for Results with Guus van Deelen
L&D Must Change
Tired of L&D busywork that doesn’t move the needle? In this episode, Jess and Guus van Deelen dismantle “course factory” thinking and show how to organize L&D for results. They unpack the five L&D “chessboards,” shift focus from learning to performance objectives, and set clear roles and decision rights to escape order-taking. You’ll hear how to segment stakeholders with RIS (Risk, Importance, Size), apply Lean thinking to clean up operations, and run an annual L&D Cleanup Day (yes, on March 12) to kill zombie offerings and refocus on business value. Jess and Guus...
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41. The Secret to Learning That Lasts with Katrina Kennedy
L&D Must Change
What if the key to better learning isn’t more content, but less? In this episode, Jess Almlie sits down with L&D expert Katrina Kennedy to explore how simplifying learning experiences and building in moments of reflection can transform behavior and performance. They unpack practical ways to focus on what really matters: workplace impact, learner ownership, and giving people the time and space they need to make learning stick. Jess and Katrina Discuss Why simplicity beats sophistication in learning design How reflection boosts retention and real behavior change The myth that “more...
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40. LIVE! Securing Influence and Credibility in the C-Suite with David L. Jackson III and Dr. Alaina Szlachta
L&D Must Change
How do learning professionals earn a true voice in the boardroom? In this special episode, recorded live at the Learning Guild’s Learning Leadership Conference 2025 in Orlando, Jess Almlie sits down with Dr. Alaina Szlachta and David “DJ3” Jackson to unpack what it really takes to secure influence and credibility in the C-suite. Together, they explore how aligning with organizational metrics, speaking the language of business, and leveraging data-driven storytelling can transform L&D from a service provider into a strategic powerhouse. Jess, DJ3, and Dr. Alaina discuss ...
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39. Lead the Change, Don’t Absorb the Burnout with Holly Burkett
L&D Must Change
Website: Article: (TD, August 2025) Article: (TD, Jan 2024) Article: (ATD Blog, April 2024) Article: (Chief Talent Officer) Book: Find and Connect with Jess Almlie Website: Book: Subscribe to Jess's Weekly Newsletter: Additional Links from this Episode L&D Must Change Episode 35:
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38. Build Learners, Not Libraries with Irma Horvath
L&D Must Change
What if the real power of L&D isn’t in the content we deliver, but in teaching people how to direct their own growth? In this episode, Jess is joined by Irma Horvath who leads learning at Kahoot! They explore how shifting from “training delivery” to “learning ownership” creates lasting impact. You’ll hear how to spark curiosity, set goals that guide attention, and make reflection the secret sauce of retention. From small experiments to culture-wide shifts, discover how to help people learn how to learn and why that’s more valuable than any course catalog. Jess and Irma...
info_outlineL&D and customer education are similar, but not the same. There is a lot L&D can learn from this parallel profession. In this episode, Debbie Smith joins Jess Almlie to reveal the secrets of successful customer education that L&D should adopt as their own. They discuss why learners should feel empowered, not controlled whether or not those learners are external customers. As well as how L&D can adopt the data-driven, outcome-focused mindset that customer education requires.
Jess and Debbie discuss
- The top priorities of customer education vs. L&D.
- The differences in designing for voluntary vs. captive audiences.
- Applying Mayer's 12 principles of multimedia design combined with cognitive load theory.
- Using adoption paired with company drivers and goals as measures for success.
- Tracking patterns of behavior change long term.
- Focusing on long-term business impact.
About Debbie Smith
Debbie is the Senior Director of Visier University and president of CEDMA (Customer Education Management Association). She is a Customer Education (CE) leader with extensive experience in CE strategy, certification, instructional design, eLearning design and development, customer experience, and project management. As a member of the CE community, she is a sought-after mentor and thought leader in the growth and evolution of the industry. She has led large and small teams at various SaaS companies and serves on a number of customer advisory boards. She has contributed to two books, multiple podcasts, and webinars. She is a frequent speaker at industry conferences.
Find and connect with Debbie Smith
- Website: Visier University
- Website: CEDMA
- DevLearn Conference 2025
Find and connect with Jess Almlie
- Website: jessalmlie.com
- L&D Must Change Newsletter
- Book: L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner
Additional Links from the Show
- Article: Mayer's 12 Principles of Multimedia Learning
- Article: Cognitive Load Theory and Instructional Design
Now Available! Jess's book, L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner, published by ATD Press, is now available for pre-order wherever books are sold! To learn more and be the first to get behind-the-scenes updates, early sneak peeks, and join the virtual launch party, join Jess's email list! You'll get the L&D Must Change newsletter delivered to your inbox weekly as well as special updates on the book when available. Click here to join!