Reflecting on Breast Implant Illness and Going Flat after Explant

Today I'm reflecting on last week's interview with Anna Hopkins, who spoke of Breast Implant Illness and the experience of going flat after 18 years with implants. 

Support my work by making a donation here:

https://liberapay.com/abreastcancerdiary/

Watch this episode on YouTube here:

https://youtu.be/ABRIwo1uo2I 

Links from today's episode:

Breast Implant Illness Articles and Resources:

https://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/surgery/breast-reconstruction/types/implant-reconstruction/illness/breast-implant-illness

https://www.healingbreastimplantillness.com/ 

Anna's YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@closetlady?si=73mWb6L4ipUc13fE

Anna's Instagram account:https://www.instagram.com/closetladyflatfashion/

 

Transcript:

Today, I want to reflect on last week's interview with Anna Hopkins, if you're watching this podcast on YouTube this week, you will notice that I have a lot of my stand tall materials behind me and on me. we just got our new banners for the new breast cancer awareness month and all the walks this year in October and, uh, had an early walk this year in Oregon.

So I got the banner a little early and I've got it on the wall behind me cause we just had our kickoff rally for stand tall for the year. Stand tall is the main flat organization that I'm affiliated with and it's really just present at breast cancer walks and Advocating for flat awareness, flat visibility and flat pride in the community.

That's not our official mission. That's just my words. But you can see that our slogan this year is "Two, One, or None,. Let's stand tall together" so we're not. Pitting ourselves against people who've had implants. We are standing United with them as people who've been through breast cancer and had mastectomies.

And, that's really what Anna and I were talking about this week or last week on the podcast. So I thought I would include that in my YouTube presentation. My t shirt here is Wendy Sage, who has been the stand tall mascot, and she's holding a sign that says body positive with a pink ribbon on it. A lot of us flatties have resisted the pink ribbon because of all the controversy around it, but I think we're finally most of us are embracing it now as the sign of our community as a whole, even though it comes with a lot of baggage.

So, check out Stand Tall AFC and their new website. They've got an amazing directory of flat resources, both flat walks and flat groups that you might want to find in your area if you're interested. But Anna's story was primarily around the incidence of breast implant illness.

And this is something I am not an expert in. I don't have a lot of research background in, and so I'm going to point you to resources in the show notes for that one. This is something that has been very shrouded in our community of breast cancer survivors up until recently. With the advent of Facebook and Instagram and the sharing of resources there, we have been able to identify, in our community just so much more quickly.

Those people who have gotten sick because of their breast implants. I'm not going to quote any statistics because they're ever changing, but a good amount of people who get breast implants are not able to live with them long term. They have, mostly autoimmune reactions as Anna did. And of course, not until Anna actually had her second set of implants taken out, did she learn about her breast implant illness and, identify that it was her first set of implants that started her down that cascade of what she thought was allergies ended up being autoimmune issues and her second set of implants. She had an even more strong reaction to, but she lived 10 years with them nonetheless, and lived with all of those symptoms for all those years.

And then was kind of set free from them in the end when she. decided after 10 years that she wanted them out a lot of people in the flat community are what we call Explanters they are people who have had implants in the past and have gone flat after having implants I didn't realize that when I first joined the flat community.

I thought most people were like me and Had gone There's a phrase for it, straight to flat. I don't ever use that phrase, but it is a phrase that is sometimes used to differentiate those who have had explants in or implants in the past and had them explanted. And those of us who just went directly to after mastectomy to flatness like myself.

And so I would say out of everyone I've met in the flat community, Probably half have explanted after having implants for a significant amount of time and being very, very uncomfortable with them physically. Some women are also uncomfortable with them psychologically, kind of the way that I and Anna have described.

Not feeling ourselves when we're wearing prosthetics. Some women also feel like they're not themselves wearing implants, but usually it's more of a physical symptom, physical sickness, and really it's largely autoimmune kinds of symptoms that people get when they're afflicted with. Breast implant illness, which is actually a thing.

It's a medical term. And like I said, I'll link to some information in the show notes.

Another part of Anna's story that I wanted to reflect on is the fact that her doctors, when she insisted on getting her implants out, her doctors then did the extremely bullying and psychologically abusive move of sending her to get a psychological evaluation. And I'm so grateful that Anna was willing to tell that part of her story.

It is a very shameful and humiliating experience to be sent by any medical professional to have a psychological evaluation, especially after you've made it clear to them that you are uncomfortable with part of your body that's been causing sickness and yet it is pretty common even in these last few years, much more common, I think decades ago, but as Anna shared, not even that long ago, um, in, at least in her region, it was considered normative to send a woman for a psych eval after her expression of discomfort with her womanly shape is how I think the.

medical professionals interpret it when really it was just the implants that she was having a problem with. If they could have heard her more distinctly and, um, clearly, I think that's what she was expressing. So, she didn't talk a lot about how that made her feel, but I just, I just wanted to honor the fact that a lot of women go through that very, very Painful and insulting process, and it really is medical battery, in my opinion, to do that to any person to pretend that their, their desire for change or for healing, implies that there's something wrong with their mind or their emotional health.

I loved Anna's, very kind of visceral and physical description of her saying goodbye to her breasts and her realization that they were going to be changing and that she wouldn't have that relationship with her nipples. Um, and I just wanted to also kind of point out that just really poignant part of her story.

And. And the loss that we all go through, especially when we just don't really know what it's going to feel like to not have our natural breasts. Um, there's a lot of fear of the unknown. I think that happens before mastectomy.

And then I so related to the part of her story where she talked about being pleasantly surprised after mastectomy and being delighted with the childlike power that she had, um, her word was power and. Uh, the power of, a, free and joyful little girl and just being herself and not having to carry the baggage of all the, womanly associations and sexualized associations that we carry as grown women.

I think that's worth pointing out. I certainly relate to that myself, and that's definitely a part of my joy in being flat myself. I think another part of the interview that was really important to me was connecting with Anna over my memory of being with her. I first met Anna in a yoga class that she was teaching as a part of a retreat for flatties in Palm Springs.

And she was teaching us Kundalini yoga. And it was, I think my second time taking a Kundalini class and I was just so struck with her beauty and her grace and calm. And, the next day we went to a breast cancer walk together with stand tall AFC. And, Anna decided to take her shirt off and it was the first time.

And she'd been to walks before where women had taken their shirts off as flatties, but that was the first time she was willing to do so herself. And I just happened to be walking next to her when she did it. And wow, I mean, it just bowls you over the emotion of that. Experience being surrounded by other women that have lost their breasts and them all also feeling the heavy and also the light implications of that experience of sharing one's body.

I want to talk a little bit about what that's like because it's, it's easy to forget kind of the novelty of what it's like to be in a breast cancer walk and see another woman, especially a flatty without her shirt on. You tend to think as someone who's grown up in the Northwest where there are nudists.

And, you know, nudity is not completely unheard of there are, um, mostly hot springs, I guess, around here that are allowing of nudity. And so I've been around some nudity and I'm sure there are nudist communities too, but I've never been a part of that. And then I just went to Burning Man, my last, episode, actually, before Anna's interview was.

about my experience at Burning Man and Burning Man is a place where nudity is allowed. And I probably saw a dozen people over the week that were nude, not a lot. Um, some of them riding bikes and some of them walking, some of them partially nude if they're women and fully nude if they were men.

And this is different when you're at a breast cancer walk. It is not the same feeling as seeing someone who is exhibitionally being nude, in public. It's a much more vulnerable, much more tender kind of experience by necessity. There is no exhibitionism of it. Um, in terms of like what I'm reading or what I'm feeling when I'm experiencing it, it is just pure vulnerability and sharing.

And I personally, when I'm around someone, Nude in the context of Burning Man or Hot Springs, I tend to look away. I don't feel comfortable looking at their bodies, but in a flat Community context, I have learned that it is safe to not look away, and it is actually welcome to look at each other's bodies and appreciate the little differences in the outcomes that we received surgically and to comment on those.

That's a welcome thing in our community. It's just a, it's been a really safe community for me and my friends. And that's a part of our stories that may not. Seem relatable to the average person listening to this podcast, but I just want to reiterate how important it's been to me for me to feel the freedom in our podcast to tell Anna how beautiful her flat closure was and to acknowledge the fact that I had looked closely at her body.

It's not a common experience and it's not something. That someone like me and my culture and my social upbringing, would normally feel comfortable doing, but it's really important and I feel pretty strongly about it. Especially when someone has a really nice flat closure. It's. It seems really important to me to compliment them on it and to compliment their surgeon on it, because it is so rare in our community to have an aesthetic flat closure, which is what AFC stands for.

And as is now a medical term that we can refer to when we're talking to surgeons, there's still an ongoing battle to get. Aesthetic flat closure in the surgical setting. A lot of surgeons are fearful that they will not be reimbursed adequately for it. And we're still working on legislation to correct that and to get that written into the women's rights,

bill or act that is allowing for insurance to cover or demanding that insurance cover things like implants, and so, at Stand Tall AFC, we are advocating for the allowance of language to add, chest wall reconstruction to the verbiage in the women's, rights and reproductive act.

I probably haven't said that correctly, so I will refer to the act below in the show notes in the correct form, but, that's one of the new platforms that Stand Tall is working on with an organization called Not Putting on a Shirt, which is actually their umbrella organization. So Anna's flat closure being a true, aesthetic flat closure with no extra skin, no lumps and bumps and ripples and dog ears, which is what we call this little, area that if you're watching on YouTube right now, you can see on my underarm.

I've got a little lump, just a little one. Most have bigger ones. I can't really complain, but little lump of extra fatty skin that, would normally have. Sat right above my breast and under my underarm. That just kind of sticks out and that's really, really common. Most surgeons will tell you it's unavoidable and unfixable.

Certainly all of my surgeons have told me that, but Anna having been a woman who was quite thin and yet had quite large breasts, she was able to, Actually achieve a true aesthetic flat closure with no extra lumps on the side or ripples, at least not any obvious ripples. I'm sure, like she said, she still sees a little bit of bumpiness and lumpiness when she looks in the mirror.

We all see some kind of imperfection, I'm sure, but I just, I love that I am free as her friend in this community to comment on her body and commend her surgeon for the good work that he was able to do for her in that way. And I hope that we can all push our surgeons to strive for better work in that area.

None of us want to go back under anesthesia and get revision after revision after revision. I certainly don't. Um, But it's really important to get it right the first time so that we don't have to go back under anesthesia and feel like we're being petty to go back and ask for part of our body to be taken off after surgery.

So that's that's a really important platform that I will stay on and get back on that. soap box probably pretty frequently on the podcast. It's a big one for us. Flatties really important.

Anna talked about how important the flat community has been to her online and how she started her career as an influencer, a fashion influencer on Instagram and YouTube because the other flatties really encouraged her to keep going with her fashion experiments and sharing her photos. And like she said, she was painfully shy.

Going into this experience and she has now gained a real following and has a lot of fans that really thank her for their comfort in their clothes as flatties and their ability to play with fashion and experiment and share. Together with others, and so Anna has become a really pivotal part of the flat community online unexpectedly, and, she really gave a lot of credit to the folks that came before her in this community.

And I just want to share how open this community is to other women that have lost their breasts. It's really a very accessible community. And like I said, Stand Tall has an amazing directory of different flat groups all across the country and across the world. It's growing all the time. And if you want to see some flatties in person, whether you're a flattie or not, you can find the places, where we are present at the Stand Tall website and places where we've gone and walked in breast cancer walks before together.

If you're here in the Northwest, we have. A lot of presence in Seattle and Portland. There's a Medford walk this year that will be pretty well attended, I think, too. And, maybe Centralia. There's a new walk that's just surfacing in Centralia, which is halfway between Seattle and Portland. We might show up to that one as well, but the main one in Portland, if you're local, that's happening this year is at the University of Portland.

It's the Making Strides American Cancer Society Walk. We'll have a table there for stand tall. I will be at that table if you'd like to come by and say hi. It's at University of Portland in North Portland. And rumor has it that most of our Flattie troop will be there. So we'll be there Representing with our shirts off.

So if you'd like to see some flat bodies Watch for that in person or online. There'll be some pictures. I'm sure that'll come out online Sometime during the last week of October That walk will be October 20th, I believe so Anna will not be there, but I will be there and, my Portland Flattie group will be there.

And Miriam, who I interviewed last on the podcast will be up at the same walk in Seattle, the Making Strides American Cancer Society walk in October .

And she'll be at the table as well. So you can see Miriam as a half flat woman. She's still got one breast, but she'll be, I'm sure wearing a bikini or a half a bikini so that she's got one of her breasts covered and the flat side showing.


So again, I just want to give Anna, lots of credit for being a big part of the flat community and more visible part of the flat community online and kind of holding that banner high for us in her fashion ways.

She just has a really particular niche and a special gift and a real playfulness around it too. She's got so much humility. She doesn't claim to be an expert or to know anything about fashion, you know, in terms of, right or wrong, but she just experiments a lot and has fun with her clothes. So I definitely, encourage you to go and check out, Closet Lady Flattie Fashions on Instagram and YouTube.

So hopefully you can find her there and you can interact with her there too. She's really responsive. If you comment or ask questions or if you have a question about fashion or a quandary or a dilemma or something she hasn't covered in any of her short tutorials in the past. Next week, I am interviewing. My friend, Meryl Opsal, she is a new friend. She's a fellow podcaster and pretty recently on Instagram, just telling her heart wrenching story of some of the side effects of her medication from , having triple negative breast cancer.

Meryl is a truth teller and an amazing storyteller. And so I hope you'll tune in next Wednesday to hear her story. It is more of a typical story with chemo and radiation being an awful, gauntlet to get through and Meryl does it with so much grace.

And she also talks a lot in our interview about her parenting journey and how she's learned to talk to her kids about her breast cancer experience as they see her suffering through it, and just being real with them, with the right language.

So yeah, check out my next interview next week on Wednesday with Meryl and I'll talk to you then.