A Breast Cancer Diary with Kathleen Moss

Kathleen Moss, a lobular breast cancer survivor, DCIS educator and flat advocate, tells the stories of other breast cancer advocates who have gone through similar decisions around body changes, treatment and surveillance options and lifestyle improvements in the face of medical menopause. We hope some of these stories of the many ways of surviving breast cancer will resonate with you.

Dragon Boat Paddling after Breast Cancer 03/02/2025

Dragon Boat Paddling after Breast Cancer My new friend Lori is an amazing advocate for the power of exercise oncology and she's a wonderful hostess and educator here in the Northwest for those who want to try dragonboat paddling. As a 17 year survivor of breast cancer, she's met a lot of other breast cancer patients and her insights are so clear around one big value: just keep moving. I'm looking forward to having her back for a part two discussion. This was not enough for me! Don't forget to rate and review the show and if you want to enter for a prize for doing so, email a screenshot of your review to me at Subscribe on: - - Or watch on YouTube: Support my work by making a donation here: Join my Newsletter List here: Transcript: My guest today is Lori Godfrey, another local breast cancer survivor in my own community. She lives in Banks, Oregon, and she is retired from her role as senior vice president at KeyBank. I wanted to talk to Lori today about her experience on a team of dragon boat paddlers called the Rose City Rockets. She is a breast cancer survivor with a history of a diagnosis of stage 3B. Ductal breast cancer at age 49 in 2008, and she has not had a recurrence since. Welcome, Lori. L: Oh, thank you so much for having me today. Really enjoy it, being here today. K: Yeah, and for those of you who just watched my YouTube version of the interview with Danielle in the last couple of episodes, Lori is featured in that, in those gorgeous photos that we had as the montage in the background. So you might recognize her from that. So Lori, tell me about your experience joining this local Dragonboat team and what that's been like. How did you find them? How did you find out about them? What has that been like for you? L: My favorite subject, so I'm glad to be able to talk about it today. So the Rose City Rockets are an all cancer dragon boat team that was established just last year, officially in 2023, but we were on the water for the first time in 2024. I'm actually the founder, not only the founder, but the head coach for. Rose City Rockets. I started dragon boating with an all breast cancer team 14 years ago. And that's the Pink Phoenix dragon boat team that's also located here in Portland. They were the first all cancer, excuse me, all breast cancer team in the US. They were the second to be established globally. And that started a great big trend of women getting on boats for the first time in their lives, which was really my experience. I met Pink Phoenix, as I said, so many years ago, here in Portland at a Susan G. Komen walk. And they had a booth, I went up to talk with them, and within the week I was on the boat for the first time with them. That started a great, um, really a lifelong relationship. change for me. Um, I had been an athlete my entire life and was really felt very sidelined by my breast cancer. And that experience alone was what, and has kept me going in dragon boating, is that knowledge that I'm a lifetime learner, I'm a lifetime athlete, I'm looking for things that I can do. Those that have had a breast cancer diagnosis some 20 plus years ago given different experiences. information than women today. Previously, they were, uh, all concerned and still are concerned about lymphedema. So women that have breast cancer may have massive, uh, surgeries, obviously a mastectomy being a primary one. And when they do that kind of surgery, you know, you have these scars and these scar tissues that are there afterwards. And they're very difficult to break through and the lymphatic system starts to, um, get compromised, obviously. And you start, you can get lymphedema. So women were told, don't do repetition, don't do repetitive, uh, repetitive motions and no more vacuuming, no more tennis, no more golf. So some of those sports that women would be able to do for a lifetime were no longer. available to them. So, uh, Dr. Don McKenzie, who is out of Vancouver, B. C., um, started a clinical trial, and his clinical trial was to establish and determine if women that did a repetitive motion, such as in paddling, uh, if they would have lymphedema, if they would have a recurrence or an episode or a flare of lymphedema. So, they pulled together these women, approximately 24 of them, to be in that first clinical trial that also was a team. Dr. Don happened to be a paddler And so he trained those women to be in a competition, had them on the water. They competed. He gathered the information that he needed and then when they were finished, attempted to disband them. And they refused. Basically, they were having the time of their lives and they said, no, we're not going to go. Thank you very much. So, that first breast cancer team, uh, called “Breast in the Boat” and they're in Canada, in Vancouver, BC. And there's lots of that have found breast cancer, excuse me, um, paddling through breast cancer survivorship through, uh, just that support group that's there. So that's how I started. I began as a local paddler and from there I was, within a couple of years, became what's known as a pickup paddler and a utility paddler and I started paddling with other teams around the area and then regionally and then one thing led to the next and I realized that Dragon Boating wasn't just happening in Portland, it was happening regionally, it was happening nationally, it was also happening globally. And that'sreally what changed my life, was those global outreach opportunities that I've been able to do via paddling. I've been able to make all these connections. with other breast cancer survivors throughout the globe that have really been life changing. K: That's great. So, you started doing it on, like, a weekly basis? Monthly? Or is it seasonal? How does it work? L: That's a great question. So I think a lot of people, especially here in Portland, if anybody's listening that knows Portland, knows the Rose Festival boats and the Rose. Yes, I was a paddler. I've done dragon boating before. And what they're referring to typically are the Rose Festival boats that take place in June and where the fleet comes in and we have it part of our Rose Festival celebration that we have here in Portland. that's all that I really knew about, um, the Rose Festival and about dragon boating happened to be that particular event. But that's not all that it is. That's a unique, very stylized boat that is not really used for anything but a festival. There are racing hulls, long canoes that we use globally. And so I started with Pink Phoenix. Uh, we paddled Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Also once, excuse me, Monday, Wednesday, Saturday mornings is Pink Phoenix schedule. And so it was three times a week. And so I just plugged into that experience three times a week. Never miss practice. Did it while I worked. Um, they work, they practice in the evenings. You know, it would just change my whole life around to have a block of time in the evenings that I wouldn't be disturbed. And that was the greatest thing about dragon boating for me was the quiet. I was able to take my phone, put it on silence for the evening. Get on the water and only be responsible for myself and my team. And listen to the water, listen to the air, experience being outside, and being on a great big huge river, that's really pretty demanding. And then learn a new sport as well at the same time. So it was, there's a lot to take in when you first start dragon boating. K: And so, you started on the Willamette. Are you still on the Willamette? L: Yeah, still on the Willamette. So, I've paddled all over the globe, and so that's taken me on to both rivers, like our Willamette. Also, I've paddled on lakes. There are lakes all over the world that we paddle on as well. And the ocean. So there's three different ways that we get on those, each one of those. of water are, have different demands. there's a couple of different styles of the stroke that happen, coast to coast. So you learn a style of stroke, and then you get proficient at that stroke. And it's interesting, as a Dragon Boat coach Um, I've learned that, and especially as a paddler as well, that there are so many different pieces of a particular stroke. It seems like it's one motion, but it's actually broken down, I think at least 20 different pieces of that particular stroke. Just like taking a swing in a, a golf swing or a tennis swing. It looks like it's one motion, but there's a lot of different things that are taking place along the way, foot placement, head placement, uh, velocity, just all kinds of ways to change what that stroke looks like. K: I'm dying to ask, how does it go for a newcomer? Does it take long to learn these things? L: Well, it's interesting. Um, some are very quick at it and some not as quick. So being athletic is helpful. I think the people that struggle the most are those that have come from as a kayaker. So they've come to us as a kayaker and there's a particular way that you stroke as a kayaker or that you do not stroke as a paddler. So there's sometime muscle memory. It's a real thing, right? We learn a muscle, um, it has a particular memory when you go to pick up a blade in the water. You may want to do it a certain way because your muscles remember that. it takes quite a bit of time to get, to build a new muscle memory over an old one. I think it's easier to establish a new one. So, kayakers tend to have a little bit more of a struggle. But they're comfortable on the water, so that's a positive. I learned very quickly. And, so I'll say that in fairness. I learned very quickly how to stay in time and how to stroke. And I continue to work, here I am 15 years later and I'm still working at particular pieces of my stroke. So it's never done. I worked at one element of my stroke for three seasons. every time I picked up my blade, every time I was in the water, I was working on a particular aspect and it took me three years to own that particular aspect. I know how difficult as a coach, I've learned how difficult it can be for some paddlers to pick up certain elements, but it just takes a lot of patience is what it takes. K: Yeah, makes sense. I'm really invested in getting more women out to do this and so I want to ask, is this like a normal sport where the coach is going to pressure you to perform at your absolute, you know, top performance and be extremely competitive or is it more about the social aspect and just being together? L: That's a great question. I think we get both in every, every time we're on the water. I get the social aspect, which is really not why I came to paddling. I came to paddling for the physical being. I wanted to do something and it really intrigued me that it was, had a breast cancer wrapper, but it was the sport at the gut of it. For me, that's really what it still remains is it's the sport first and then all this other stuff that comes with it. What comes with it is. It's simply the nice casual conversation I have with a woman that's going to be my bench mate that day, that may sit with me, that walks down the gangplank to get on the boat. We hug like crazy. We cry like crazy sometimes when somebody has difficult news. we share in the good news and we share in the bad news with each other. Um, the new trend that's happening across the globe now is a new trend which is the all cancer paddler. And so breast cancer paddlers have been able to be on the water for so long, for almost 30 years. Many times when I've come off the water successful as a breast cancer thriver paddler, others have asked me, spectators have asked me, ooh, I want, how'd you learn to do that? I want to be a paddler. How can I be on your team? And the news we share as a breast cancer paddler is, well, good news is you don't qualify to be on our team because it has to be all breast cancer survivors. But they'll say, well, yes, but I have lymphoma or skin cancer or, uh, you know, name the number of cancers that are out there. And what about me? It was the what about me, listening to people say what about me, that encouraged me to start another team that allows for all cancer as well as for men to participate. And that's really what I'm here to recruit to today is that we would love to have more women and more men for that matter, but more women in particular that would like to join the Rose City Rockets and just enjoy the camaraderie and then learn the sport. You feel so, um, empowered. It's incredible. I, that experience I would want for anybody, no matter breast cancer or not. K: Yeah. So how does someone join? Do they just show up and start? L: You can, you can. It's better to have a mentor like myself to help you get rolling. So if they contact me, I'm happy to get them all the information that they need. But basically for Rose City Rockets, we paddle on the Willamette. We begin March, which is coming up very soon. March 11th is a Tuesday. We wait until a daylight savings has happened and kind of brighten the sky up for us in the evenings. So we're there in the evening. We meet at 5:40 PM. We have 20 minutes of warm up then we get on the boats and I'm there with you as we have other coaches as well. So it's my self. I'm an advanced United StatesDragon Boat Federation Advanced Level Two Coach. Um, there's not very many of us, um, here in the West Coast in particular. My husband's also an advanced coach. And then we have other coaches that are on our squad as well that can help, especially the new paddler, get comfortable and teach them some of the very basics. You can't be wrong. You can only be right. We find a lot of wins. Uh, that's one of the things that I get complimented about specifically. is about how I'm able to help the paddler, find that value in what I'm teaching, be able and feel comfortable enough and confident enough in trying it, and failing. Cause you aren’t always successful. Sometimes we fail at the things that we're trying, and that's okay. We can't expect, all of us cannot come to a new sport, or a new anything, and expect mastery. K: Absolutely, if a woman was looking at joining, let's say this coming March or, or next March, what muscle groups would she want to start working on? Would she do pull ups, push ups, tricep dips? L: There's a great number of exercises that we have that are specific to paddling and you've hit on most of them. So what we try to do is keep our hip flexors. Moving and flexible. So we do some great squats. We might do some hip flexor work prior. You know, some stretch, some static stretching there. And then get into more dynamic moves. So static is you're holding a stretch. And dynamic is activity, right? For those that don't know the difference. And so if you were to start out with, exercise bands and work on simply stretching above your head, stretching behind your shoulders, getting your shoulder blades down into your, back pockets is what I call it. So basically working on that back, working on back muscles, working on your shoulder muscles, um, lats, core um, your, your core. That's probably where you're going to go. It is a full body workout. So we're going to go literally from toes. To the head of your top of your head is going to be working when you're in the dragon boat sport So we'll work on those things. A lot of people think I got to have strong biceps Or I have to have strong upper body, um, physical strength in order to be a good paddler. It's not true, but I will say this, over the years I have developed bigger shoulders and bigger, yeah. So I have bigger back muscles and bigger shoulders than, than the average woman probably does. And certainly from my body style when I started, I've changed. My body has changed. To, in a good way. In a positive way. K: So it sounds like, more like a crew kind of setup where you're actually using your legs to push when you're paddling. Okay, I didn't realize that. L: That's right. So we have contact. It looks like we're sitting there, but actually we have a specific way that we place our feet and we utilize pressure on the bottom of the boat to do to go forward and to go backwards. You know, so we basically are doing this rotation while we sit, we rotate out to the catch to put our blade in the water, and then we do you rotate what we put pressure in the water to pull the boat forward. And so it's basically that's what we're looking to do is how do we pull the boat forward to get to the finish line. There is a lot to do, to paddling. I would say, I would, for a new paddler, try not to get too excited about those details. let me talk about clothing. So, of the things that people like, need to be experienced in gathering together before they come down to the water. So they're going to get physically, you don't have to be a physical specimen, a fitness specimen, you don't have to come out of the gym and be on the water. You can come to us just as you are. And then you're going to, you'll learn quickly about where your deficits are. And we can work on building those up. but everybody's got them. So don't feel like, well, mine's worse than everybody else's. It's not the case. Um, so you come to the water, dressed in layers. We use a lot of dry fit. So that's anything that you can get wet, and that can dry. So we use, um, no cotton. No cotton on the boat. I come with leggings usually that are dry fit. Everybody's got yoga pants or yoga leggings that they can start out in, and then you layer from there. So I'm going to have waterproof shoes on, or at least shoes that I can get wet. I use a Keen. Keens are very popular here in Portland. It's a hiking shoe that has water cut outs in it. They are used by most paddlers in Portland. And you can wear anything you like. Uh, waterproof shoes have become more, uh, tennis shoes have become more, available So people are using those now, too. And then from there, we're using a layer, a system of coats. So it's one long sleeve shirt. That's dry fit. Then I'm going to put a light jacket on that and then something waterproof over the top. And that's going to take me through most, most weather, most weather conditions in a hat of your choice, right? basically what you need to come on the water. Uh, we use, come with water because we need to be hydrated while we're out. we start on the, uh, practice time for Rose City Rockets. We practice from six o'clock until seven. We get off the water at seven and go home and then we'll see you again on Thursday. And then we do it again on Saturday morning. 9 40 a. m. And then we're out from 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock. The nice thing there is a social aspect on Saturday mornings in particular. There's a little, restaurant called Little River Cafe that's very close to where we are, where we go out to the river center marina and it's part of one of those restaurants that's local they're very good about our paddling gear, you know, dripping all over the place and they have coffee available. Also serve a nice breakfast and it's filled with paddlers on Saturday morning. So we have a lot of people sharing stories talking about the water and getting, you know, we recognize all kinds of other paddlers that are down there. Because we're, I've been part of that community for so long, that I know paddlers on every team, I've paddled with every team, almost, I've raced with them, um, so there's a lot of, a lot of that camaraderie that's there. It's, it's super fun. K: Do you think that most cities have room on a breast cancer paddleboat team at this moment in time? Like, is there room for people to join? L: I think they're always recruiting. There, there's a challenge, uh, with breast cancer teams, in particular. And, and it would be, hopefully it's true for our all cancer team as well. Now, all cancer, I'm saying that's our, Rose City Rockets--there's probably 50% of us that are breast cancer survivors. Yeah. So there's... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/35409590

Warrior Portraits After Breast Cancer 02/23/2025

Warrior Portraits After Breast Cancer My friend Danyel takes photos of breast cancer survivors in her studio on Hillsboro Oregon. In this episode she describes what that's been like, and she also talks about her recent diagnosis with stage four breast cancer. Don't forget to rate and review the show and if you want to enter for a prize for doing so, email a screenshot of your review to me at Subscribe on: - - Or watch on YouTube: Support my work by making a donation here: Join my Newsletter List here: Resources: The facebook group that Danyel and I connect on is called Oregon Flatties The Photo experience that we referred to is , in Hillsboro Oregon. Transcript: Today's guest is my dear friend, Danyel Rogers. Danyel lives just one town away from me, and she is the founder of Warrior Women Portraits, and she's kind of a local celebrity for it. She was diagnosed with invasive ductal cancer in 2022, stage one, and she had four rounds of chemo after that diagnosis. And in July of 2024, just recently, she was re diagnosed again with stage four, and she has triple negative breast cancer, which is going to be the main topic of our discussion for the second half of today's conversation. Welcome, Danyel. D: Thank you so much for having me. K: I wanted to ask you, first off, it was kind of a perfect setup because last week's guest, Brenda, mentioned how much she loved her experience in your studio, in your photography studio. And so first off, I wanted to ask how you were inspired to create your project, Warrior Women Portraits. Absolutely. I knew in the very beginning when I was diagnosed, even while I was going through treatment, I wanted to give back in the breast cancer world and really just kind of lift them up. Um, I knew it needed to be something unique, something that other photographers weren't actually, offering to the women that have been diagnosed with cancer. I just wanted something really powerful, not necessarily pretty, but powerful. Because we're, we're always, you know, when we get this diagnosis, we're drafted to war, you know, we don't have a say in it. It's not like, you know, we're just getting reconstruction just for the fun of it. And so, you know, we just have no choice other than to fight. To just do what we can to stay on this, this earth as long as we can. And I wanted the experience to kind of mimic that. As I was watching, fellow flatties at the, flat retreat that was in, that April. I really noticed the, the impact that a group of women had that just knew and understood. And so that's when I knew it needed to be a group session, um, so that they could lean on each other and just have fun and connect. And the more I thought about this, the more it just kind of, it just excited me because It could be people that are 20 years out that feel so much strength that they've beat this and, you know, they've really connected to other women that just need that extra, you know, pick me up of you are strong, you are, you know, resilient, and I love showcasing that. So I really wanted it to be, regardless of what stage type, you could be stage zero. I, and I don't even care if it's a breast cancer diagnosis, cancer's cancer in my opinion, then I just get to, you know, watch it all happen and unfold. K: Yeah. Yeah, I remember, I was one of your first victims and was so honored, so honored for it. And I was, I'm not a girly girl. I don't wear makeup except for a little lipstick now and then. And so I was just like, when I walked in, I was like, Oh, this is going to involve so much more than I realized. There's, there's makeup, there's weaponry. You have a whole arsenal. You have lots of jewelry. Uh, it was a really cool kind of almost like a playful activity that reminded me of, of being a child again, but in a more strong, strengthening kind of way. So, and, and I love that you're open to people who don't identify with the warrior image because there's a lot of survivors that don't, like me, who are pacifists maybe and don't want to take up the, the sword or…. D: Yes, that's, and that was my big thing too, like, aside from the name being Warrior Women, if Goddess, or whatever, whatever, like, just a beautiful human being, like, it doesn't have to have a label either. Um, and I do, like, you do not have to pick up a weapon of any nature, like, it is there for you. Um, but I want to make sure that. Women understand that you can go as grungy or as minimal like you, or just, you know, do more ethereal kind of looks. And that's all part of the journey in the studio. And we, we, we just have fun and go in and out of what, um, our visions may look like idea boards and inspiration boards for different poses, but also for different facial makeup and hair and all the different things. K: So we don't have to, when we show up in your studio, we don't have to have an idea of what we want. Maybe we have a color idea or a theme idea, but no one has to arrive with lots of ideas that they get They get inspired by looking at your idea boards and vision boards coming off of off of your screen. D: And I'm a little, I mean, it's a little for me too because, know, chemo brain is a thing and trying to be like, Oh yeah, I wanted to do that pose, but I forgot. Um, but it's been honestly really helpful for everybody in the studio from the model to me to the person that is, waiting their turn because the person waiting their turn can take a look at some of these poses and like, “Oh, we're doing this staff.” And so it kind of pulls the other person that isn't being photographed into the into the experience, so to speak. And that allows me to be able to stay behind the camera getting the shot and things like that. So it's really cool because it makes the experience like we're all in it together. So like the next lady, when she's done, you know, we flip it and like, Oh, I wanted to do that, that so and so did and, you know, and then it just becomes really exciting and just kind of fluid, really. K: Oh, yeah. And it's nice. You know, when you're posing for a camera, it's super awkward socially. But if you have your own cheering section and in the margins, you know, like it makes it so much more relaxing and fun. fun and playful. And then you can really get into it and start to kind of ad lib in a way that you wouldn't if you didn't have someone kind of laughing with you and in the bleachers. D: The emotions are going to be there. You're going to be like, you're going to feel silly, right? Like, if I'm having you, like, scream or growl, like, that's not your normal, like, persona, right? Um, but it, I think it works. It's amazing. But then we get the laughter right after. To just be like, Oh my gosh, look at that natural smile you captured. Um, so there's all that, the component of getting the grungy and then usually there's the funny after as well. So, um, you get it all. Heh heh heh. K: You have a lot of furs and I really loved my portrait that came back with the furs. Um, because it made me feel a little more connected to the earth, the basic elements. I feel like with this cancer diagnosis, I became more in touch with my mortality in a way that I was okay with. Like I was admitting that I, I came from the earth and I'm going to return to the earth. And so it's weird. Like I used to wear a lot of. I have purples and turquoises in my wardrobe, and these days, ever since I was diagnosed, I just want the earth tones. And I think it's because I do relate so much to that sense of mortality, that healthy sense of mortality, that everything passes and we have to let go. And the earth is just a reminder of that. So I really love that you had some of those really earthy costumes too. D: And I'm, I'm making even more. You should see our garage right now. I went and got a bunch of realistic looking flowers—a lot to like to put in there, but they're really even feel real. I want to make some crowns, right? Of like the flowers and doing more of like an ethereal... K: Like a fairy theme? D: Yeah, I don’t know, fairy doesn't even seem to be, something that is more, more grounded into wanting more nature versus, um, weapon. K: Mm hmm. Yeah, and the weapons are incredible. Like your, your husband made a bow that looks like a really rustic bow and it actually pulls, and he made it out of…? D: It's just PVC pipe, and he's been enjoying that kind of stuff because like he did the first bow, you know, just trying it out and then he tried a different way and it didn't work as well. So then he went back and did another bow. And the one that you have recently seen in the studio, he put the markings like more of like, um, Viking markings on the bow. And he was so, um, smart and thinking about what symbols actually were to be carved on there. Um, like if, if a woman did actually look up those symbols, it would be like bravery and strength and things like that. So even though it's really the small details of things like that, where we don't want, um, to make a weapon and then have the symbol be something really inappropriate. So we do those things as well. And, uh, made a scale mail, like armor thing that he made with a bunch of ring. I don't know how he did it, but it is beautiful and heavy and gorgeous. K: Ooh, I want to try that one on. I'm going, I'm going into the studio for my second, second portrait session here pretty soon, so I get to try some of these lovely things on. D: The things, I know. And I have to keep adding new things because it keeps me inspired well. Keeps me, keeps me like thinking outside the box. And um So, yeah, I'm super excited. K: Well, I wanted to ask you some of your more precious memories from the studio. If you have any kind of emotional moments or, or your first client that you had, uh, coming into the studio, do you have any special memories that you can share? D: You know, they're all really special. It's really amazing to see how the women act when they first come in to when they leave, and that's just all of the women to be honest, because they're so excited. They've gone through the process. Um, they haven't even seen their images yet, but they're so like in it. But the ones that don't think they're going to get into it, and then they do, those are the ones that are like, Oh my gosh, this is so funny because they're, they're really timid and you know, and it's, it's a strength, right? So if someone is just kind of mousy, you have to kind of pull the mousiness out and, and, you know, give them a little more oomph behind their image. Um. And you can see in the roll of, I say the roll of film, right? The SD card as they go through their session, you can see their expressions become more natural. It's really magical to watch. Um. And then there's the ones that are just like in it, just they're like screaming and they're growling and, and those are fun too. I actually have to have, sometimes, uh, I've let all the people know there's a bunch of businesses up where my studio is. So I've had to warn them, we're going to be doing these, these sessions, and you might hear some screaming or grunting, but I promise you, I promise you, no one is being injured. Then we do a Zoom call and they get to see the images. And watching their face is probably my all time favorite because the excitement, the It's, I think because the women have a persona, they see themselves differently, you know, they don't see themselves as a mom or a friend or a wife, you know, they, you see the strength of just them as a human. I know it's really hard for us women, or just, you know, people in general, to see a picture of themselves and not try and pick it apart. Um, but I think in the, this scenario, they're a persona of themselves. Um, kind of like, you know, Beyonce would be like to a Sasha Fierce when she goes on stage, right? You have this persona. K: Yeah. That reminds me of a story you told me of a mother who talked about, um, her vision for her, her print that she was going to have printed of her photo. D: I think you're referring to when she was like explaining how empowering this image would be on a wall of a family with young children and You know, women aren't meant to be in that big, strong mentality you know, we're softer, we're more gentle, um, but we could do really hard things. And, um, I think it's really empowering for not just the person, but their family, you know, their, their partner to see what they, they see of their partner, right? And they don't necessarily know how to explain that to them, that they see the strength. And now they have an image to be like, see, I've been telling you, you're really strong. But this image really kind of like encompasses it. But then if you have young children, you know, what is that saying to a young little girl, right, she can be strong. She can, she can do really hard things. And my mom did hard things that I can do hard things and, um, giving them permission to feel strong. then you have the other side of little boys, you know, who are able to see their mom in a, in a way that society may not necessarily show him, show them. and so I think it's, it. The imagery that comes out of it is so much bigger than me. So much bigger than the person that is being photographed almost. That, is really the legacy that I'm hoping to leave behind, like, I had a client, um, her husband just printed a whole gallery for her walls and, and gifted it to her for Valentine's Day and, the fact that they like their images that much to put so many on their wall for them to view on a daily basis. So, it's pretty awesome and yes, it is definitely my legacy. In my first phase of life of my legacy was raising my two kids and my stepdaughter, and now it's this, these warrior sessions. Facing mortality is a little bit easier to know that I'm affecting not just these women, but their families, their young kids, their friends, you know, a lot of times their friends will see these images and get really emotional because they too, it's like seeing an image of what they would actually, that they didn't realize was something that they needed to have and that of their best friend, so yeah. K: Yeah. Speaking of family, I have met one of your daughters down in San Francisco. Your daughter Brianna came and helped you transport your entire studio into a hotel room when there were a hundred of us flatties assembling just over a year ago for international flat day. And she was an amazing assistant to you as you kicked out like, like so many little mini a studio sessions, one after another, after another, like how many, like 25 women got their photos taken? D: it ended up being 21 in the end. K: Wow. D: 21 over 2 days. Now normally I do 2 warriors a day. So, and that was, you know, so yeah. I definitely needed her help, her assistance. And she was so, like, it was such a proud mom moment. Um, watching her interact with all these women that I call friends. And, um, Um, and just really seeing her see the power in these women, um, cause I could really see it like she was, she was helping with makeup and, you know, kind of helping things move along so that we could get, you know, cause I wasn't going to have a lot of time to help them with makeup or hair or whatnot. And it was just, it was remarkable to see her interact with people and people coming up to me and telling me how amazing she was. you know, those are, those are words that a mom always wants to K: Yeah. Oh, and she was there every step of the way all through our whole like parade and walking across the Golden Gate Bridge and celebrating afterwards. She was right there with you and supporting you. I just love that you have that memory of that whole two days, three days spent with her so intimately partnering with you on your life's passion. D: And it was, it was really interesting. Um, flat day is actually on my other daughter's birthday. Um, so it was the day that we walked across the Golden Gate Bridge with my daughter Brianna was very emotional because it too was also my, my youngest daughter's birthday, but as we were walking past, and so it was just like all these emotions, but positive and like, God, that was a magical wasn't it? That Golden Gate Bridge, I just had tears running down my eyes and I'm not like a big crier but when, people are driving by honking their horns in support and in solidarity to us as we walk across. It was just, sorry, I know I digress but it was such a magical moment. K: No, it was. There'll be never be anything else like it. I think it was also, I think for both of us, you know, some of our first memories of solidarity and the flat community. D: Yes, amazing. And then knowing that I shared it with my daughter, um, the only thing that could have made it any better was having my other one next to me as well, which she was in memory. K: Well I want to transition now and talk a little bit about your special diagnosis? I've talked about triple negative and interviewed a couple other gals that have had triple negative diagnoses, and it feels so much different, but it's not always different if you capture all of the cancer in surgery in the first place. It doesn't have to be, you know, such a scary diagnosis, but in your case. Um, unlike Marquita, my first guest that talked about triple negative, in your case, all the cancer cells were not captured and you did end up having not just recurrence, but serious stage four cancer cells traveling throughout your body. K: So what do you want people to know about your experience of triple negative? D: I try not to be super scary, but it, it, it is. Lot of, um, hormone positive, cancer cells are grade one, which means they don't replicate super fast. Um, triple negative is almost always grade three, which means it duplicates at a rapid phase. . And that's and that's where the big problem lies, right? On top of not knowing what is feeding it. And so you just kind of like, you're chucking darts at a, at a dartboard hoping something sticks. So I tried really hard to go aggressive in the very beginning, when I was stage one. and because knowing triple negative does have, supercells and, um, so I went aggressive, you know, my doctors had offered a lumpectomy with some radiation and I was like, no, I want a double mastectomy, no reconstruction, let's get chemo and like, I was like, this is just, we're doing all the things you know, we're fighting it and you know, we named my cancer Toby because I didn't want it to be, like me, who I am. Um, so that's kind of a tip that I highly recommend naming your cancer or somehow like making it less you. K: Right. Separating it. D: That way, you have something to fight, right? You're not fighting yourself, you're fighting, you know, the cancer itself. Um, but anyhow, in 20, at the very end of 2023, I was getting really kind of raspy in my voice. And one of the components of going, becoming metastatic is a lot of times it'll go in your, um, Help me out, Kathleen. K: Oh, your thyroid? D: Thyroid, thyroid, thank you. Um, which, if it goes to your thyroid, a lot of change your voice or things like that because it's around your esophagus. So we did a bunch of testing. I mean, we went and we did an ultrasound of my thyroid. I saw two different ENTs, they scoped my nose, and then all the way down to my vocal cords. K: Wow. D: And then at the beginning of 2024, my oncologist was like, let's just do a big scan, what we're working with, and if there's anything, we'll, we'll tackle it. So we did an MRI and CT, um, of pretty much my chest wall, abdomen. And then head to toe bone scan. Everything went fine in February. And there was one spot on my rib that looked, had been there all along, um, looked like a past injury of that nature. Um, it was stable. But my doctor was like... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/35374645

My Friend Brenda, a True Survivor 02/16/2025

My Friend Brenda, a True Survivor This and next week I'll be interviewing some friends close to home. I live in Oregon Wine Country, and there are a few breast cancer survivors who live in my part of the woods that I've gotten close to over the past two years. Brenda is one. We talk just about every week and see each other monthly. She's been through so much, and she keeps going, relying mostly on her own strength. I was thrilled to be able to hand her the mic, as we sat in my living room together to record this episode. Transcript: Today's my first in person interview. I have my friend Brenda Huff with me. She's a neighbor and my sidekick that I invite to all kinds of local events. We hang out together in person a lot and I thought I would have her here to my house for an interview for the podcast. And Brenda is a resident of Forest Grove, the town that's closest to where I live. And she is a former stay at home mom. Raising her kids, and she's also right now in recovery from a number of injuries and from homelessness. So she's had a bit of a rough time recently, but she's doing amazingly in recovering. And so I, I really wanted to invite her to tell her story. She's a fellow flattie. She had stage three breast cancer, went straight to flat from a double mastectomy and, went through treatment with chemo. And did you have radiation? I can't remember. Yeah, you had radiation too. So, we live in the same community, have a lot of the same friends, and we're part of the same flat community called West Valley Flatties. And so Brenda and I see each other a lot. And I wanted to ask her, in particular, about a part of her story that involves the early days of her being flat and being on chemo. And I think this is an important perspective because I tend to have a lot of folks on later in their journeys when they're very used to their new bodies and have, you know, adapted and are celebrating their new bodies. But I think a lot of us, and Brenda included, have had a rough start at the beginning of kind of starting to accept the flatness and the change. And so I wanted to ask you first, Brenda, how did you decide to go flat? B: Um, I wasn't sure about putting implants in there if they would fail me down the road. My surgeon had said something about it and he had asked me several times if I wanted the implants and I said no. I said I think I'll just hold off and I'll just be flat. K: Okay, so it was kind of just your own intuition, your own feeling about what you needed. And did you have any fears about what you would look like when you first saw yourself in the mirror after that surgery? B: Yeah, I did. It was hard. It was really hard. But, um, sometimes I'll wear the prosthetics and then sometimes not, you know, but it's hard to go flat just for myself. And some, some of my friends that are in the flatties just go flat, you know, and they're fine with it. But me, I just still hesitant of it. So I just wear my fake ones. K: Yeah, no, that's that's great. I think for me, I have a fake one too because I have a small Goldilocks and then I have a little fake prosthetic that it kind of sticks on to my skin and I can wear it when I'm feeling uncomfortable and I feel like I wear it in the times when I'm feeling like all eyes are on me. Um, or maybe some eyes that I don't really know or trust maybe on me. But, um, yeah, I think it's, it's great to have that freedom to be like in your body and not putting the extra stuff on sometimes. And then on the days when you need to, then putting the extra stuff, the extra prosthetic on. I think that's awesome. And I, I think we should all feel the freedom to do that. B: But then I have a little joke about that too, about wearing the prosthetics. Um, mine are just made of cotton, but I've gotten out to, outside of the house to get ready to go somewhere. And I'm walking down the street and I look down and one of my prosthetics is much lower than the other one and so it's like what do you do you do you turn around and pray nobody's looking because you're playing with your boobs, you know! K: Oh My goodness, yeah, so I have a story about that: this Christmas I was the one that hosted here at my home and I was running around and getting a little sweaty wearing my prosthetic and it's a stick on and I don't wear a bra with it and I had never worn it when I was getting really sweaty and running around like that and sat down to eat and about like 10 bites into my meal, it fell off into my lap and like, you know, I'm looking around the table to see if anyone's noticed. Hopefully they didn't notice anything, right? I don't think they did, but oh my goodness. That's good. One of the pitfalls of wearing a prosthetic. B: Very much so. We all have it when we are cancer survivors like this. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless you have implants. that are, you know, inside your skin, you don't have to worry so much, but even then I think there's some lopsidedness, some asymmetry that happens for everyone. So for everyone, even people that without cancer have one breast that is smaller than the other. K: I've heard that. Yeah. That the majority of women have a breast. That's a little different or pointed in the wrong direction or whatever. So it's not just us, you know, it's other women out there too. Absolutely. Well, when I first met you, you shared a really poignant. Tear jerking story with me that's always kind of remained with me and um, I'm so honored that you trusted me with that story and you said that you would also trust the audience of the podcast with that, that hard story. And so I wondered if you would share that story here on the podcast. B: Yes, um, that was a difficult time. seen the points in this, the staring and stuff like that, but never what I experienced. I lived in Tualatin and I went into Fred Meyers to do some grocery shopping and I could overhear a lady talking to her husband on the lines of, please do not say anything to that lady. And, um, her husband never acknowledged her and, and she just kept saying, please don't do this. Please don't embarrass me. Please don't embarrass that woman. Please just let her be, you know. And he came up to me and he said, um, and I can't remember word for word what it is, but he was really rude to the point where, um, he says, women have hair. Why don't you have hair? You look like a male. And that really hit. It hit home pretty good. Um, that lady was very upset. She tried to apologize up one side, down the other, and there was no going back from that. Um, she left her husband in that store and walked out without him. K: Good. I'm glad that she did that. B: It's very hard because at that point I had no breasts. I had no hair. Yeah, I look like a man. I mean, it's gotten better, but You know, and a lot of the men were the ones that would point and stare, let alone the little kids. But I taught my kids, you don't point and stare. You know, but a lot of parents don't teach them that. And that's the hard part in here. K: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I know at that time you were really raw. You were still going through the treatment. You had no choice but to do your own grocery shopping. And so there wasn't, it wasn't like you could, you know, You know, put a prosthetic on or put a wig on, and that point you were struggling and, and struggling financially too, I imagine. B: Cancer is very expensive. I mean really it is because not a lot of the free wigs are out there and not a lot of the free prosthetic is out there. Um, I was very thankful for you because you were able to give me the swimmer prosthetics and those were fun and I really appreciate that very much because I really struggled with that too to even go to a pool because I have no breasts. So that was the hard part and a lot of bathing suits require breasts in order to look presentable or whatever, but, and I still struggle with it, but I'm thankful that I got help with you and then I found out other communities and stuff out there that will help with breasts, you know, just the prosthetic ones, but yeah. K: So I remember when you and I first met the first day that we met and we'd been in touch a lot through Facebook and email and things like that prior because we were meeting because of the Komen walk in Portland at the zoo and you brought your own team and your team was really good at communicating with me as kind of the head of our larger team and a support group for yourself. And you guys had made beautiful t shirts, um, I can't remember what they said, but something about supporting you, Brenda. And, um, I was just, I loved your energy and you were all dressed up in tutus and you matched and, I'll never forget, you were one of the first women I've ever seen take your shirt off in one of those breast cancer walks for the first time, and you know, experienced that novelty of sharing that intimate part of your body with the other breast cancer survivors around you. Do you remember what that felt like on that day? B: It was an emotional day , you know, I mean all around it was emotional. I got to meet new people and then I just felt like I'm here with them. I might as well experience it with them and that was a tearjerker but it felt good. It felt good to be around those women that look like me, feel like me, you know. It was good. K: Absolutely. I relate to that. I think I remember you saying, what the heck? And just taking your shirt off because you saw so many of us that had done so, that were a part of our team as the Oregon Flatties, I guess is what the name of our team or Stand Tall AFC was the sponsor. So you were joining us because you, you saw the solidarity already and you wanted to be a part of that solidarity. B: Yes, that's what it was. I wanted to be one of you. You know what I mean? So yeah, it felt good. I was hesitant, but it felt really good. I thought what the heck why not? Let's join them, you know, yeah, and you seemed pretty exhilarated afterwards. So it seemed like it was a good experience It was very good day. Very good experience for me Um being with the flatties very good I mean like you and I have a close relationship and there's a few other women that I do talk to Um, but not the closeness that you and I have You know, and I just think if somebody else is going through the same thing as we are that you need to get hooked up with the flatties. K: Yeah, it's been really amazing that first day that I met you.There were a dozen of us that had our shirts off and with power. There was a lot of power that day This last October it was a little quieter There was a kind of a rival event in Bend a lot of the flatties were doing on Floating down the Deschutes River activity and so it was It's just you and I with our shirts off this last October and that felt pretty different. Tell me what you remember about that experience. Just being the two of us. B: That was kind of different because it was kind of more butterflies . You know what I mean? Because it was, like you said, just you and I there. So that was more butterflies like, do we do this or do we hold off or, you know, so it was a little struggle. We did it, right? I mean, you know, we had to support, you know, us. It's colder too, I remember. It was really, yeah. So we didn't keep them off for very long. No, not very long at all, I'm telling you. It was, yeah. K: The year before was quite chilly because we did it earlier in the morning. It was really early! B: Yep. Yeah, you know, but this one, yeah. And there were so many people. That was my part. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the year before, we had plenty of people, but this year seemed different. Like it was just a lot of people. K: And then another time, a strong memory for me with you was being a part of Danyel's photography studio and going through the Warrior Women portrait experience. That was so fun to be there just helping you, having fun with you, kind of playing in a playful way with photography and makeup and, and uh, Props in the photography studio tell the audience about that experience I haven't talked about that before but I hope to have Danyel on soon, but tell us what that was like for you? B: I enjoyed that. You said something about let's go to Danyel's studio where she helps people kind of bring out their power, their warrior type thing. And that was a blast. Just a blast. You helped me with makeup and wardrobe and stuff like that. And, and I did, I got to pick one final picture and that was amazing. Just amazing. I am going to probably next month blow it up, go get it blown up, but put it on the wall. That's me. You know, that is me. And it was an exciting, I mean, I love Danyel to death, you know, and I love you to death to be able to do that with me, really. K: So where are you going to put it in your home? B: I think I'm going to put it right in the living room when everybody walks in, that's what they're going to see. Because that's me, you know, I mean, big and out there, you know, as much as you can. The cancer. Yeah. The emotional. Part of it comes later, you know in the evening and stuff, but that's the hard part, but I'm doing it. K: I want to hear more about that. But before we move on from the photo, tell us what the photo looks like? B: The photo I am got like a black outfit on and the green and blue makeup that was on was Beautiful. That's what Danyel did and I love that makeup and then I have like um I think it's flames or yeah, I think it's flames coming out of my hands for like fire type thing, you know, I think so. K: Yeah, she added that in as a special effect post production, I think. Yeah, she added it in when I went and looked at the pictures and I told her, I said, I like that pose, but I like the fire with the other one. Can you put it together? And then that's when she said yes. So for those of you watching on YouTube, I'll put a picture of Brenda in that, um, in that pose. Yes. With Danyel in her studio.I thought that was amazing. Yeah, it was a good day. K: It was. Yeah. So you had talked about some of the emotional side of adapting to this change in your body and still recovering from cancer and some of those emotions come more in the evening? B: Yeah, they come more in the evening when it's downtime. It's thinking about what's going on and stuff like that. Um, I'm single, so I live by myself. And so that's a struggle at night. K: Do you have things that you do to get yourself through those hard times? B: Um, yeah, I do a lot of crafts. Um, I enjoy doing stuff with silk flowers and doing different craft ideas. And, you know, generally I just give them away. But, you know, it's fun and it keeps my mind, you know, keeps all that away. So, yeah. K: That's another thing that we're planning on doing actually later this week is doing some crocheting together with Danyel as part of a local breast cancer support group. So, that'll be fun. Learning how to crochet. I have never learned before, so. B: I remember a very good story. Yeah. And it was kind of funny at the end. Um, you and I went to dinner, um, with the other group, um, I can't remember what they're called. But. Oh, with Best Friends. Yeah. We went to that restaurant thing and then we stopped by New Seasons on the way back. Oh, yeah. Do you remember? I remember. And, uh, yeah. We got ice cream. Do you remember that? We ate that pint of ice cream in the car before we went home. K: Because we hadn't had dessert. B: Yes, because we didn't have dessert in the restaurant. K: I remember that. Yeah, and you told me a lot of your life story at that time when we were sitting in the car eating our pint of ice cream. B: I think that's where we really got to know each other was over that pint of ice cream. Yeah, good memories. Yeah. Yeah. K: Well, I want to hear kind of the contrast between the woman who was standing in Fred Meyer that day getting bullied and harassed by that gentleman (or non gentleman!) and the woman who's sitting next to me right now and, and how you think differently about your body, how you defend your body in your own mind, to your own self and your demons. If that comes up, if there's any shame that comes up, how do you deal with it these days? B: Um, cancer is very, very hard. The treatments are very hard on cancer. It's to kill it. I get that. But it changes a person from head to toe, big time. And I've had to grow a backbone really. I've had to grow almost armor because I'll still get the comments, you know, not as severe as they were before. Um, but my attitude's totally changed and it's almost like you put a barrier up. Um, I don't know. I guess that has a lot to do with that, you know, I'm single and whatnot. So, I don't have that other partner to really, you know, cry on or whatever. But, I struggle with the brain part of it, with the chemo. Um, about that I know I want to say something and does it come out right? Not really. Or, um, it gets jumbled up in my head and it just doesn't come out at all. And I really struggle with the memory part of it. But You know, um, I've just gotten a lot stronger, I think, and, and I have friends to lean on. Um, back then I really didn't. You knew who your friends were and who they weren't. Um, and so I've grown closer to a few, you know, and I'm sitting next to a wonderful one right now that all I have to do is call if I have questions. And that's what you've said all along. And that's what everybody needs that is coming into, you know, dealing with the. The treatments and stuff of cancer is they need somebody that, that's already been through something to be able to talk to. K: Well, Brenda, what do you say to, or what would you say to a brand new cancer patient who's just facing mastectomy and treatment today, um, with all the wisdom that you've gained in the last few years since your experience, what would you, what are some of the key pieces of advice you wish you had known back then? B: To put your armor on. Don't listen to what they have to say. Um, when you would see people staring or pointing, just let it go. Just let it out of your mind. Just don't listen. Um, and get yourself a coach or somebody to talk to. Um, I didn't have the coach or the friends or the flatties until after I was pretty much done with my treatments and stuff. I wish I would have had that throughout the whole thing because those women have already been through what I went through. Just hook up with somebody you can talk to besides your family. You know, besides the normal friends that you see on a regular basis, get with somebody that has already been through what you're going through. It will help a lot. K: I so agree with that. It made all the difference for me, too. I think we need, we feel like we need to kind of buckle down and just handle it. It's not so bad. Other people go through this, too. My case isn't the worst case. But, until you get with the others that have been through what you're going through, you You don't really see just how much you really are going through. B: Yes, yes. And how much you have to deal with on a regular basis. You know, it is a lot to take in. Cancer is not a game, you know, cancer knows no age, no sex, no color . It does what it needs to do and it wants to prevent you from breathing, you know, really, and you have to be strong and do what you need to do to survive. K: Yeah. If you see someone in Fred Meyer who looks similarly without breasts and without hair, what is your inclination nowadays? Do you have, I mean, you probably haven't had that experience, but if you do, what do you think that you would say to that woman? B: I'd go up to that woman and say, you look beautiful as ever. You're amazing. You're, you're a survivor. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that we can say that to each other. I wish we, I wish I had that back then. I wish I had the coat of armor on. I... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/34918485

What's Capsular Contracture? 02/09/2025

What's Capsular Contracture? Today I'm reflecting on the science related to last week's episode talking to Christina Miner about her Capsular Contracture and Breast Implant Rupture. Lot's of good resources linked below about this.... Links: Another great podcast episode on the history of implant mis-regulation is . The checklist I mentioned is here: A report on Breast Implant Illness is here: The website I mentioned for implant-associated lymphoma is here: And a short interview about Squamous Cell Cancer and implants: A great advocacy group that will help you to advocate for better research: Transcript: Today's another solo episode where I'm reflecting on my last guest conversation with Christina Miner. We talked about capsular contracture in the last episode, and I just want to reflect a little bit more on the meaning of this, the implications of this, the frequency of this, and a little bit about some of the risk factors. I realize that this is a very controversial and touchy issue. And by talking about these things, I want to remind listeners that I'm not taking a side. I don't have an opinion on whether breast implants are good or bad. I feel like it's still very gray, and it's a very personal decision, very much having to do with your tolerance for risk. I feel like I made an intentional choice to invite my first guest on, Michaela Raes, to talk about her positive experience with implants because I do feel like I am skewed in that most of my friends in the breast cancer community are flatties and a lot of those friends have explanted it because they have become sick as a result of their breast implants. But I don't want this podcast to be singularly about the flattie perspective and rah rah flatties. I really want it to be helpful for everyone in the breast cancer community. And I'm doing this episode in particular, not just for the brand new patient that has to decide about whether or not to get implants. I'm doing this episode to talk about ongoing risks for my friends out there who already have implants. You need to be vigilant. You need to watch those implants over the years. And certainly you need to get them replaced when they're wearing down and breaking down in your body. It's still the case that most of the people who get breast implants are not breast cancer survivors. About two thirds to three quarters of the folks who get breast implants are just getting augmentation. They are not cancer survivors. And so these things that I'm talking about today, whether it be capsular contracture or breast implant illness or cancer, So I'm going to read the definition from the National Center for Health Research about what capsular contracture is. Their definition says it's one of the most common complications of breast implants. In fact, it's over 50 percent of the population of those who get breast implants that have some amount of capsular contracture. Capsular contracture is when the scar tissue capsule that forms around the implant hardens. So it's natural for an implant to have scar tissue around it, but it's not natural or intended for that scar tissue to harden. And in some cases, the hardening of that tissue can be quite painful. And it can distort the shape of the breast, and it can make mammography more painful and less accurate. Removing the implant and the capsule without replacing the implant is the only recommended way to guarantee that this problem is corrected. According to the National Center for Health Research. Which is a National non profit think tank and lobbying group that tries to help the FDA be more responsible in its use of or approval of medical devices in general. It's kind of the main aim of that organization. Now with capsular contracture, you don't always have a problem for the patient. If it's just slight hardening, it may not be something the patient ever notices or is bothered by. Uh, but I, when I go to breast cancer walks and I table for Stand Tall, AFC, to talk to folks about flat closure. A lot of times I will have women walk up to me and talk to me about how unhappy she is with her implants. And the most common complaint is that they're rock hard. And why didn't they tell me these things were going to be rock hard? I don't like hugging people anymore. I don't like holding my children because I've got these rocks in between me and my children. What they're describing is, I now know is capsular contracture, but because we don't go back to our plastic surgeons and have ongoing conversations with them about how our breasts are feeling and how we're experiencing our breasts, we don't get told that. And so, you know, you can go on and on and even be in a breast cancer support group and have three or four of the other women in that group say, Oh yeah, mine are really hard too. I guess that's just the way it goes. So when I'm tabling now and I hear that story, I tell women to please go back to their plastic surgeons and ask for them to advocate for the insurance company to pay for removal of their implants and to get a Goldilocks procedure instead. You can still have a small breast with just the skin that's around your implant. with a Goldilocks procedure and most plastic surgeons are very happy to do that. Very, very cognizant of the discomfort of capsular contracture and the fact that it's not an intended outcome. It's not something that they want for you. So with Christina, she had an extreme case of a capsular contracture. Not only did she have lots of hardening, lots of contortion, but that thing was being eaten by her body. It was also an immune reaction. She was having multiple responses to the implant, and she experienced rupture, which is another side effect and possible risk factor in getting implants that we just don't hear about. Even folks that are given implants, they don't get to read about or talk about the likelihood that they would have a rupture or a leak. And so I want to read the description from the National Center for Health Research about rupture and leak. When a saline implant ruptures, it usually deflates quickly. But when a silicone gel implant ruptures, you may not notice any changes. And the rupture may not be detected by a doctor or a mammogram or an MRI or ultrasound. And MRI is recommended for silicone implants every 3 years for everyone following surgery. And every 2 years after that to check for a silent rupture. So it's likely that after 3 or 5 years that your breast implant will rupture. And you may not know it if you have a silicone implant. These MRIs that are recommended for follow up are not usually covered by health insurance, and this is something that people really should have been told really early on. Um, they are highly recommended to, um, just make sure that your implants are still intact and still the same shape that they should be, but they may not be paid for by your health insurance, which is a really big bummer. And silicone might migrate in to the nearby tissues such as the chest wall, lymph nodes, upper abdominal wall, and into organs such as the liver or lungs where it can't be removed. And since migrated silicone can cause health problems, it's currently recommended that any ruptured silicone implant should be removed immediately after the rupture. And treatment of these conditions might be at your own expense, not covered by insurance, or the manufacturer's warranty, unfortunately. And when I talk to friends in the breast cancer community that have had their implants, for more than 10 years already. A lot of times they have a really nonchalant attitude about that. Oh, I'm sure it'll last 20 years. I heard somebody say that their aunt's lasted 20 years. Maybe mine will too. I really discourage them from letting it go that long because the likelihood is that It will break down in your body and you will have some health effects from it. So another risk of breast implantation is something that we talked about in episode 13 with my friend Anna. She had something called breast implant illness. And this is something that's really hard to quantify or even explain in an objective way since the medical community has still not come together around a definition of it. It is. very well acknowledged by most medical professionals now as a true condition. So that's good. That's progress over about 10 to 20 years ago when it was kind of denied in the medical community. And the FDA has started to study it, which is great. They started tracking in 2008. the number of complaints that they had about breast implants and the number of complaints that they had specifically with the types of symptoms that come with breast implant illness and they found about a little over 10, 000 reports between the years of 2008 and presently, 2024, that qualify with the the relevant symptoms, which are fatigue and pain, usually mostly joint pain, skin conditions, migraines. memory loss, and brain fog. Several studies of women with breast implants have shown that they're significantly more likely to be diagnosed with one or more of the following diseases compared to other women. All of these diseases are autoimmune diseases, so they are chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple sclerosis, Sjogren's Syndrome, which my guest in episode 15 had as a result of a drug, um, coincidentally, and systemic sclerosis or scleroderma. There are so many different accounts of how many women get breast implant illness every year and unfortunately there's not a lot of studies on it so there's not a lot of objective data. I can't really tell you how many women are actually struggling with this. Mostly because, like my friend Anna who was in episode 13, they don't know that they're struggling with something related to breast implants so they can't go to the FDA and complain about their implants. So So many women have lingering symptoms for decades without running into anyone that knows that this set of symptoms actually is a result of your breast implant. So we need lots more awareness, lots more education. That's why I'm talking about this issue again on this episode. Just to get it out there so that we can talk about it in our breast cancer support groups and in our breast cancer communities. But the legitimacy of this condition is proven by the fact that removal of the implants resolves the symptoms in so many cases. The FDA said that in seven out of eight cases, there was a relief of symptoms in the folks that did get get their implants removed. So this shows that it is a legitimate medical issue that does need to be formally acknowledged by the medical community and defined well and taught about when we're giving out breast implants, right? There's another really scary side effect of breast implants that I will not focus on in this episode because I do want to have a guest on to talk about it who has more experience than I do. But there is a type of cancer that is believed to be associated with breast implants. And originally it was thought to be associated with the textured types of implants only, but it is still kind of being sorted out whether or not it's just that type of implant. And it is called “breast implant associated anaplastic large cell lymphoma.” And to a smaller degree, there's another type of cancer that is thought to be associated with breast implants called “squamous cell carcinoma.” And I hope to have Raylene Hollrah on as a guest to talk about this. She is the loudest advocate out there. She was, I think, the 30th person in the U. S. to be diagnosed associated anaplastic large cell lymphoma diagnosis after implantation. She has a website called Just Call Me Ray, and it's ray, spelled R A Y, dot org, and that's where she tells her story of having been diagnosed with a second cancer because of her implants. Uh, like I said, I'll hope to have her on to talk about that sometime. And I won't go into all of the details about this cancer risk, but it is, uh, thought to be a risk of 1 in 4, 000 patients, so very, very low risk. But, um, still being ironed out which types of implants are possibly going to cause this type of cancer and at this point, I just want to say again that it is my belief that most of the women who get breast implants are very happy with them. They don't call their breasts rock hard. They are very pleased with the outcome and they don't get any sort of disease or autoimmune disorder as a result of their breast implant. But because these risks and possible side effects do add up to a lot of concern and worry, I think for those of us who are part of our community who have implants or who are going to pursue them, we just want to make sure you have the whole picture. That you know how to watch and monitor and what to look for. When I went to get my tattoo on my chest after mastectomy and a delightful woman who did my tattoo art, uh, told me the story of how she had almost no breasts, kind of like I do now. And, um, she is really, really happy with her new breasts. And she wears clothing that accentuates them and really celebrates them and in her relationship with her husband. And she couldn't be more thrilled with them. So I think for people like her and me who have had both of the experiences of Almost no breasts and large breasts. Um, it's easy to know kind of where you stand and what you feel, as a result of that body type, but you never really know what you're missing if you haven't experienced it. And that's part of the difficulty of making the decision to get breast implants. I think, especially after breast cancer, you don't know what being flat is going to be like ahead of time until you experience it and look in the mirror afterward. So I understand why it's really hard. And it's, it's hard to be rushed into that decision as well. I think for patients like Christina, last week's guest, it's really easy to know what's right. You know, if your breast is, you know, implant is exploding outside of your, your body and it's like, Telling you that it wants out right away. You know, it's, it's easy to get that explant and to go on to be flat, but I think for people like Anna who had to live for a dozen years with these mysterious symptoms that she had no idea were connected to her breast implant, then it's a little bit more of a sad story to look back on and to tell. So if you'd like to read more about all of these phenomena, the rupturing, the possible cancers, the breast implant illness and capsular contracture, the website I would send you to is the one for the National Center for Health Research. Their website is www.centerforresearch.org, and it's right on the front of their page. Um. the information about breast implants and risks. And you can go and look for their black box warning document and their checklist document. And I would recommend printing it out. So you have it handy. I had a good friend just diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of months ago, and I was able to be strong and objective and holding this in my hand while talking to her, knowing that I'm not using my bias as a guide, but Just listing out the facts for her because, unfortunately, I know that her surgeon probably doesn't have time to do that. So, I would highly recommend going and printing out the checklist for friends of yours who are going through the decision making process or friends of yours who are suspecting that they might have a problem with their current implant. Unfortunately, the FDA is pretty slow to correct any of this. industry sloppiness. And we don't know exactly which kind of implants cause which kind of problems. The industry has not been pushed to do enough good research on the effects of their products, unfortunately. And so we also need to really push Our Congress people to push for the FDA to regulate this stuff better so that we can feel more confident recommending that our friends do get implants when they feel the need to without being nervous about them. And so I think that's a really important thing for those of us who are comfortable talking to Congress. People or writing to them or sending them an email. I think that would be a good use of our time around this issue as well. The bottom line is I think some of us just have bodies that respond more strongly to foreign objects. So it's good to know these things and have conversations. Know where to point people for the resources. Be sure to let me know what you think of this. I have a new Substack newsletter that's really interactive and I have a number of threads for discussion on it So I'm excited to see your your ideas and input on this. If you subscribe to my Substack you'll get the email updates for it, and it's just Uh, abreastcancerdiary. substack. com if you want to join. And that would be the place to respond to these kinds of kind of touchy discussions. Next week, I will have a very personal interview with a dear friend of mine here living locally, um, to me. I've decided to do a couple of interviews with friends that I see often in my own breast cancer community who are pretty newly diagnosed and still really struggling with their diagnosis and outcomes. One is still struggling with an early cancer diagnosis, early breast cancer diagnosis, and the other one is dealing with a second cancer diagnosis. I feel like I've kind of erred on the side of telling stories of victory and encouragement and coming out of the struggle with a great perspective. But my next couple of interviews are going to be a little bit more personal and raw and kind of from, uh, the midst of the struggle, I guess, and things not being resolved yet. So I'm happy that I can tell their stories too because these are really important stories and maybe even more meaningful for those who are really struggling and coming out of the midst of change and body resolution. And hopefully you'll relate to them. If not, feel free not to listen to them. If they're a little bit too triggering for you, they won't be for everyone, but I look forward to having these very special guests that are friends of mine from my local community. And I'll talk to you then. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/35207850

Unexpected Outcomes and Showing our Scars 02/02/2025

Unexpected Outcomes and Showing our Scars This episode's guest is Christina Miner, host of Our Scars Speak Podcast. Today Christina shares about her experience with capsular contracture and her openness in sharing her scars publicly. Don't forget to rate and review the show and if you want to enter for a prize for doing so, email a screenshot of your review to me at Subscribe on: - - Or watch on YouTube: Support my work by making a donation here: Join my Newsletter here: Resources from this Episode: Christina's interview with Transcript: Today's guest is Christina Miner from Our Scars Speak. Christina is a fellow flat advocate who's also in my Mastermind with my former guest, April Stears of Wildfire Magazine we're co advocates in the breast ca cancer space in many different areas, both podcasters, so we learn from each other sometimes on a monthly basis with April and some other breast cancer entrepreneurs in our mastermind. And I've been learning more about Christina, listening to her podcast, have so much in common with her, and I'm thrilled to have her today. Welcome Christina. C: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. And it's so funny when you came to me and asked me, would I be a part of this? I was like, ABSOLUTELY! Cause unbeknownst to you. I had followed you and your story about DC is and things of that nature and how things that you found out and you didn't know. And I was like, wow, and it was just so powerful and enlightening to hear you share your story on. I think it was YouTube that I found you! K: Oh, really? I didn't know that. C: It's been a while ago, but I was like, oh, and I used to always think about you and just like, I hope she's okay. K: Aww. Thank you. Yeah, when you share the raw stuff on YouTube, you kind of leave people hanging, and then YouTube doesn't show them the follow up video that says, I'm doing great. So it's kind of frustrating sometimes, but. Thank you for following me. I had no idea. So you live in Prince George, Virginia, on the other side of the country from me, and you are a counselor and working towards doing a master's in counseling and becoming a clinical therapist. And up until now, you've been also, you've been doing life transition coaching with individuals as well. Is that mostly online? C: Mostly I do have some clients that have been around town that really have gone through, you know, like newly diagnosed with breast cancer. So yeah, or either they're starting a new business and mental health. So I do consultations and coaching and I call it transitional coaching because it's usually at a transition of life. And a lot of people are like, let's just get to the raw meat of what's happening. But I'm like, okay, we're going to get to that and we're going to do that. But how's it affecting all aspects of your life? Not just this one term, like how's it affecting going to potentially affect your health, your family, you know, your social life. So I try to make for sure their wellness is also encapsulated with just with the problem or the newness of a new venture that they're having. So, yes, I do transitional coaching and I do qualified mental health. I'm a qualified mental health professional, which is someone who goes in the home to do case management sometimes with various clients in Virginia. Okay. So you work for the state right now. Or you did. C: Usually it's private organizations. K: Okay, cool. Okay. And what are you hoping to do once you have your master's? Are you going to branch into anything new? C: Yes. Well, not really new—I've done it before. It's just, I wasn't licensed at the time. Before breast cancer, I also was a partner in a mental health agency, a community based program. after breast cancer, I kind of, you know how it can be kind of stressful and you just like, you didn't, I didn't want to manage anyone. I just wanted to relax for a little bit. So that's when I said, you know what, during this time, I'm just going to see which direction I want to go. And I was like, I talked to my partner and I was like, maybe I'll. Go ahead and just get a license in counseling and become a therapist. And so that's how I went in that direction, all for the hopes of one day having a wellness center where I want to be able to just like, not just therapy. Everybody doesn't want therapy all the time. So there's a lot of holistic things that people love to embrace when they're going through life period. Not just necessarily something that has happened to them, but. As you know, because I know you really, you know, you love various holistic things, yoga, you know, um, Pilates, uh, mindfulness meditation. So I want to have a wellness program, but I will probably just start out with the outpatient therapy, um, center first and then start incorporating all the other holistic aspects to it. K: Wow. I have had a similar dream, actually. When I first met my friend and mentor, Marlena Murphy, who passed this last year from stage four breast cancer. She was so inspiring to me because she worked in a place like that, like what you're describing, and I'd never heard of it before. It was a breast cancer patient-centric clinic that served folks not only in mental health, but also in massage therapy, physical therapy, nutrition, which is my thing. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that is such a great business model. So I'll have to talk to you more about that, that center that she worked in and it's in Georgia. So it's not super close to either one of us, but maybe we can meet there someday and do a little tour. C: Because honestly, when I was in one of my classes for career counseling, I came up with another idea to add to it. We had to think of this model of what, what would you do if you, you know, it had to be something different. So I'm not going to do a wellness center. Let me add something else. And something that stuck out to me and reminded me when you were speaking a lot of times when we are getting, you know, acclimated with life after or during our treatment or after our treatments. people change professions, and sometimes people want to change professions or go back to their profession and they just cannot their acclimation to society. Everything is just different because we've gone through this traumatic experience. And so I've seen where there's an absolute need to help people into what they want to do now, because now their perspective may have changed. You may want to do a whole different course far as career. K: Yeah. I relate to that. I can never go back to the me that I was before breast cancer as much as other people do and they have no problem doing that. I just can't somehow. So, well, let's talk a little bit about your experience, with your, your diagnosis and treatment. You had like me, your main diagnosis was DCIS, which is a pre cancer and the ductal areas is kind of what they're thinking. And, um, you had an expander placed because you had decided to get a double mastectomy and implants. Tell me the story of how that expander changed your life. What was that like? C: Wow! So with with the DCIS, you know, of course, I chose a double mastectomy and For various reasons. I just I was trying to avoid all Treatment for as radiation not to say that I never would do anything like that But it was just up for me and what I knew I was facing. I was trying to avoid all that meanwhile I was like well, I don't know, maybe I could get a little bit of my life back so maybe I'll do reconstruction. Flat was given to me as an option. I must say by my doctor as one of the first options, she was like, you can go flat or you could, and then she started riddling off everything else. And I was like, okay. And I had never really heard a flat, you know, like aesthetic flat closure or just that period as being an option. I was just blown away that because a lot of people don't get that from their doctors. So she asked me about, um, you know, I could get expanders and then I could get… What was it? The gummy, I think was the gummy implants afterwards, um, after my skin expanded back out. So I was like, okay. So I asked her about the material of the expanders and she was like, it's the same material as the implant, except for I'm going to inject saline in it for your, um, when you come in here every so often. to expand it to the size that you want. And I was like, okay. So did that. But soon right after surgery, I was just sick, constantly. I had a temperature of 103 for the first three days after surgery. Um, didn't know why, but it went away. But then I had a low grade of 99. 9 all the way up until I got the expanders taken out. Um, I had a rash. Every time I ate, as soon as I put it in my mouth, it came right back out. Um, but I didn't have stomach cramps, but it was just like, as soon as I ate, it just came out and then I had headaches. I started having headaches. I started being fatigued. I started having sweats. my joints were aching and then I would try to walk and it was like, to get up, I was like having difficulty. Um, as if I had like arthritis riddled body completely, it was just a lot of different symptoms that I had at one time. So I was, my first thought after probably about a week of having, um, after the surgery, I'm like, “what is trying to kill me?” Because. It just, it got worse and worse every day. So on top of that, I started noticing that the side where the cancer was, the expander was looking like it was pushing out. It was like growing. And I was like, okay, I haven't had a fill this week. It shouldn't do this. But as you know, during, after my surgery, COVID hit, so I couldn't go to the doctor anymore. I had to stop, but I was fine with it because I was at the point where I didn't want any more fills anyway. And every time that I was going, when I was telling her how bad. I was hurting and how sick I was. And she was asking, questioning me about the temperature. She was like, you know, I said, well, maybe then I, I was just feeling terrible. Like everything you can imagine. She's like, “are you coming down with something?” And she was thinking COVID. I was “no, not that I know of I've been home.” So I had all those issues. Now I couldn't see her and now all of a sudden this left side is starting to contort, starting to turn black. it looked like I had cigarette burns on my skin. It looked like the expander was coming out my chest when I was turning. I could hear the slushing of the saline in my chest. It was an absolute nightmare and then it started happening on the right side. But not as prominent, but it was happening. So I'm telling her all these different things and she's like, okay, maybe you have an infection. She's trying to look at me on camera. She couldn't really see some of the things I was talking about. And sometimes the camera would fail. It was just a mess. So finally when I went in to see her, she was like, cause she couldn't at that point, she really couldn't see everything. Cause it hadn't, it wasn't as bad, but the day of surgery, I was like, well, can we just go ahead and do the surgery? So the day of surgery, looked at me. Well, I'll take that back. We had another appointment in between surgery and the day of surgery. And she said, “Oh my goodness, you must have breast implant illness. I think you may have breast implant illness.” And I said, what is that? And so she was telling me how like the body can reject the material of the implants. Um, I said, of course I Googled and I was like, “oh, you think I'm losing my mind?” Cause a lot of doctors associated with, um, some, a mental disorder, you know, like, oh, that it's just, it's in their mind. And she was like, “no, I believe my patients. She said, you got about every symptom here.” Um. So she said, well, let's see how you do with, you know, the implants. the day of surgery, she said, but I don't know if you're going to do that well, because if you're having this reaction, she said, but maybe I could, she said there was different types and stuff. And I was like, okay, I said, well, I don't know if I want to do that. She said, well, we don't have to. She said, but I'm thinking that might be it. She said, but I don't know for sure. So that's kind of how she worded it. So the day of surgery though, at this point, Everything was twisted. Everything was about to pop out my chest. And she looked at me and she's like, you have capsular contracture. it's the highest one, the highest level, so what do you want me to do? Do you want me to do an implant or do you want me not? I said, look, at this point I'm trusting God in you. And that's all I know to trust because I'm going to be sleep. I said, and I've never gone through this before, so I don't know that you possibly could do while you're in there. I tell it, she said, well, you're kind of leaving this kind of vague. I said, okay, then if you think that I'm damaged severely, do not put nothing in me. Leave me flat and that's it. So I woke up, she tapped me on the shoulder. She said, you're flat. She said, and I will never put an implant in your body. She said, because you were damaged that bad I had lost a layer of skin. So when she went in for the depth perception, the implant was busted and it popped open, going all over her assistant and everything. And she said, I was one of the worst cases she had seen with the hapser contractor and the breast implant illness. So after that, I came home like that same day, I felt so much better. And then when I came to my first appointment, she's like, you look night and day and my temperature dropped. So that’s what the expanders did for me. So I didn't make it to the end point. K: Wow. That is an extreme case. That is definitely the most extreme case of a bad response to, well, it's not even an implant. It's just the pre implant that I've ever heard. Did you have a known autoimmune disorder before that or anything you are aware of? C: Not to my knowledge, I do not. Now, is it to say, that I do and I just don't know because, diseases. It takes them forever to figure it out. Um, but not to my knowledge. I've never been diagnosed with like sick a cell or lupus or anything far as that. So, said, she said, you know, you may have an underlying autoimmune disorder. She said, it may just be that your body just does not like the material. was thinking, I had other things, you know, like I've had knee surgery. I've had, you know, um, root canals, you know, just thinking of things that I may have placed in my body before and I've never had it. That was the worst had ever experienced in my life. It was worse than the actual cancer. K: So you had how long to get ready for the possibility that you might wake up flat? How long did you have to process that? C: Um, that day, like right before I went into surgery, because, because of everything that was going on with COVID, it wasn't like I had this great workup, prior to, because the doctor's office was closed. You're on a camera that, you know, they didn't really use that prior to, so they're trying to figure it out. I'm trying to figure it out from my end. So the video wasn't always quality. Um, and then, yeah, I couldn't go into the doctor's office till like, I think, like I said, I've had, I had those two appointments. The one in between the surgery and the one prior to that, but that, that was it. Basically right before surgery, she came in and taught me for an hour. She just sat there with me. I was her first case after COVID. So, well, you know, once they opened the doors for us to get surgery and I, she was trying to get me in prior because I kept on telling her, like, it's going to fall out. It's going to fall out. She’s like I cannot get you in. And I was like, but why? I was like, this is like an emergency. She said that she had even taken the initiative to call the insurance companies and call, you know, talk to the hospital and they all said it was cosmetic. And I'm like, excuse me, like, I didn't just wake up one day and say, I want to alter my body and I want implants today. It was because of cancer, why I went this route. So how is that deemed? I said, I get why they say cosmetic because it's an implant, but I don't understand why it wasn't—it was nothing that I elected to do because of just wanting to. I because of something that happened to me out of my control. K: I imagine that's probably just that there was no category to put it in. And so it had to fall into that next closest category, which is not okay. Yeah. That's, that's frustrating. C: Because even if it was elective, if somebody's telling you this is falling out my chest. I did have a friend, her implant fell out in her shower during COVID they got her in, but it's like, why does it have to get to that point? Because now it's a risk of infection really bad because I'm at home. So, yeah, but. Yeah, that day of surgery, she sat with me for an hour and, um, I remember it was her first surgery and coming back from COVID and they got their vaccine. No, tested that morning for COVID vaccine had come out, but they had got tested that morning for COVID, which was like the first test, I guess, that they had had. So they were all talking, you know, it was just, a whirlwind of events, but she sat there with me for an hour. And went over to various things and she said, well, if you do go black, then what we'll do, we could later talk about other, you know, um, if you want to do other revisions or anything of that nature, but I just, I was tired at that point after I woke up had to realize I'm black. So, no, I just had maybe we talked about it for about 15 minutes and it really wasn't talking because. I had her kind of going in there blindly. Like “you figure it out because I don't know what you're about to go into and you're the professional.” She was like, that's not fair. I said, no, but I don't know. I don't know. And this was so unexpected. And with COVID I couldn't come in and down and have, I said, you've already had a conversation with me about different routes I could go. I said, and this just, please use your best judgment. K: So, did you have a choice as to whether or not to leave some extra skin or to have a tight closure or did you talk about that? C: So because I put her in that kind of gray area what she did was primarily flat and she left a little bit of dog ears on the sid—not much, but she left some. She was like you can go back and we can do a revision. She said but I'm not putting an implant in you ever again in life She's like nothing even remotely close to an implant. Um, and she talked about you know, like fat grafting and different things like that. She did not do DIEP flap because she's like the surgery is like too long, she just doesn't do it, but she'll give me a referral. So she went over those options with me and she, she said her reasoning for leaving was because in case I woke up and she said, you know what, maybe I do want to try this, that, or the third. She said, if you want to try an implant, feel free, you just gonna have to go to somebody else. But she did leave a little bit of skin back for that reason, but that was only because I left her in a very gray area with my decision and I understood why she said, now I can go and take that off. Said it would be another surgery. I hate to put you through it. She said, but because you left me kind of in this gray area, that’s what I did. K: And you didn't go back. How did you feel about being flat? Like, were you ready for that or was it really shocking and traumatic? C: I would say that—I don't know what, what has always spun out to me with this whole thing was just hearing the day that I got the diagnosis and hearing the word carcinoma. Um, ductal didn't matter in situ. I didn't care about any of that. It was just carcinoma. So, I used to work in the medical field and I used to work with this... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/35110605

A Corporate Professional going through Breast Cancer 01/26/2025

A Corporate Professional going through Breast Cancer My new friend and fellow podcaster, Tina Conrad, is this week's guest and I couldn't wait to hear how she did it. She maintained a high pressure job as a manager in a fast paced fashion corporation right through breast cancer treatment and recovery. She is truly a warrior woman and I'm so thrilled to tell her story here. Transcript: Kathleen: My guest today is Tina Conrad. She's a senior planner at Carhartt, as well as the host of DJ Breast Cancer, another podcast. And she lives in Leesburg, Florida. Her breast cancer was stage 3A. It was ER-PR positive and HER-2 negative. She had both ductal and lobular breast cancer. And like me, she has a mom who has been a breast cancer survivor as well and has gone through that as a long-term survivor, both of them have had at least 11 years—in Tina's case and her mom even more years since any kind of recurrence. And I just wanted to talk to Tina today about what it's been like because I was telling her, I don't know anyone in my life in the breast cancer community here on the West Coast who's been strongly entrenched in the corporate business world and who stayed there throughout their breast cancer story. And she is someone who managed to do that. So I'm kind of in awe of her. I found Tina through the Wildfire Breast Cancer Writing Community and she's a fellow writer there. And I've heard her story mostly through her podcast and she was sweet to offer me a little bit of advice and a mentoring session when I was thinking about doing my podcast. So we know each other a little bit! Welcome Tina. And please tell us about your journey and how breast cancer entered your life in that corporate business world. What was your role at that time and how did it affect you? How did you exit and reenter? What was that all like for you? Tina Conrad Yes. Well, first, let me say hello, Kathleen. It's so good, so good to be here. I've taken a little pause or or a long pause. It's been a few years since I've done any recording, but it's just so great to be back and be a guest and no one else I'd rather be a guest with. So thank you. So, back to, gosh, back to 2013 when I was diagnosed, um I was a DMM, which is Divisional Merchandise Manager at a large retail outlet. um It was truly like my dream job, like we're where I aspired to be, you know, and I had a whole team of people and I was just recently married, um and like life felt really, really awesome, you know like where I just planned to be. and then you know I just stopped one day and kind of took um notice of my health because someone actually on my team had had a health scare, not not breast cancer related, but just had a health scare. And I was like, you know, like this breast of mine, like the nipples sunken in, something doesn't look right. And, you know, I kind of ignored it like for a few months. I was very much an advocate for breast health. I had gotten a mammogram when I was 30, when I was 33 because of my mom, I was very you know into all of that, but she had always had like a lump. And so this was like totally you know something different. And so having this health scare with someone on my team, I was like, you know, I'm just going to go get this checked out. And, um you know, it was a mammogram and then, you know, they call you back and, you know, you can just kind of sense and read the room that like things aren't really normal. They they weren't like the other times I'd had a mammogram. And so, um you know, that led to um like an ultrasound and then a biopsy. And I woke up from the biopsy and basically the doctor said, get your mom's records. That was the first thing I remember her saying to me. And so it was just very foreboding. So like I knew um things things weren't going well. So ultimately, yes, I received the diagnosis that you know I had breast cancer and it was pretty advanced on stage 3A lymph node activity. um fifteen I had 15 lymph nodes taken out. um So you know I did opt to get the double mastectomy just with my mom's history. um And then ultimately I did find out too, you know I had lobular which can often jump you know to the other breast too. So I felt very good in my decision you know that I had made um given my you know my family history and everything that had happened. um you know But I was i was busy. like I worked a lot of hours. you know I tried to plan my chemo around like the least intrusive time for work. I was still just very, very career focused. And everything changed. you know like Everything changed. um you know i I had never even taken you know more than maybe one week's time off you know in a row you know in my whole career. So you know with this cancer diagnosis, you know um with with surgery, I took several weeks off. Then with chemo, you know you you get yourself worse and worse. you know like The more you go on, it it's just harder. It's harder on your body to recover. And there was one night, like I woke up and it came following, ah you know, my my oncologist was really great, really talked to me just like a human being. And he said, you know, who's your advocate at work? And I was like, well, you know, my my boss, you know, she she looks out for me. She does. He's like, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about your boss. I'm not talking about that. He's like, who is your advocate? And I was like, well, I don't have one. He's like, well, then I seriously need you to consider taking a leave of absence. And I think he was just so black and white in that moment that I needed. And um you know so that was kind of my first taking a step back from work you know and in focusing on myself and you know putting my health first because I had always put my career first. So like that just was who I was. I've definitely changed just in my attitude and viewpoint to work. I still have remained within the corporate world, but I'm no longer like leading big teams, um and I'm happy. And I just have a different viewpoint, I think, on life and you know what is my priorities. And that's okay and it's not to say if ah someone listening there you know keeps going down a path of career, that's great too. But I feel that you know um you do have to put your health for it first. And you're doing it not only for you, but the people that you love. And that just became a different priority through this whole process. So I was working with Sears Holdings, which was like Kmart Sears, obviously they're no longer no longer in business at the time of my diagnosis. And it was about two years that I had worked there that I just really had a calling that like my my work had to mean more to me. And Vera Bradley had a foundation on that specialized and in breast cancer. And so that was really important to me. in And you know we had so many great opportunities. I saw the foundation like where they do the research. It was so fascinating, you know just all the trials that they were doing. um so So I was really embedded you know not only within Vera Bradley, but you know i I did a lot of volunteer work with the foundation. So I worked there for nearly nine years. And then I just you know recently felt a need and a calling to do, you know again, something different. And so I've been in either merchandising or inventory about half of my career each. And um you know now I have a ah position that allows me to be remote. I've recently moved. um And I get a little bit more in the details of like the work and inventory. I don't want to sound too much like a nerd, but like I love Excel. I love it. So it's just it kind of gives me a little bit more different purpose. and I'm just really enjoying it. So it's it's just been good for me in terms of like a work-life balance and where I see you know myself and you know just trying to help out too. I have an aging mother-in-law and trying to help you know her more too. So hopefully this puts me in a position where like i can I can do more you know and be more with my family. Kathleen Moss At the time of your double mastectomy, how was it going back into the workplace with a new body or a changed body? How was your experience of that change in that corporate setting? Tina Conrad Yeah, I think it was less about, you know, like the breast side of it, it was more the hair, you know, like the hair is a big deal. So coming back, I took my leave, you know, after I'd had my mastectomy, I had been through um like 12 rounds of chemo and so my hair was just starting to come back and it was just like that peach fuzz you know real tiny you know hair and I remember going to a store to to work on some kind of project that we were doing and a customer came up to me and she was like I really love your hair and it was just like such a sweet moment that like you never know what a compliment can mean to you. But that in that moment, I know what a compliment meant to me. you know and And I could have gone into, like oh, I just had cancer, all this, all that. you know Oh, really, it looks crazy. you know But I was just like, I stopped. And I looked to her. And I was like, thank you so much. you know like And it just was really, I didn't have to be a cancer patient in that moment. you know I was just me with short, short you know growing here and it was you know just a beautiful thing. um but But it was, in general, it was a hard transition. you know like It's kind of like ah you know like your badge of honor. like you're You're so vulnerable coming back. um I've written about it within Wildfire too, because I definitely had um a boss when I came back to work at Sears. We had just come from some meeting and I'd only been back a few weeks and you know it was just her and I walking and she was like, um you know now that you're back on the saddle, I really need you to step it up. And it was some of the hardest, harshest words I've ever heard you know in my entire life, because I thought I was so prepared. you know And I really come back and done everything I could do you know to to retrain my brain, to like study these notes, you know, to be a student again and like, you know, cause you're, you're out for, I was out for three months, you know, with a leave. So it, you know, it's, it's difficult to get quote unquote back in the saddle again. It's, it's no easy feat. Um, so you know I just realized in that moment, I can't work for someone that can't acknowledge, you know, she had been kind to me like on other occasions, but like now that I'm coming back, you can't be kind. So it just put things in much more black and white than like I had kind of experienced before in my life. so So I went to go work for someone who had had had like a history of cancer in their own family and could acknowledge you know me as a worker, but also me as a human being. And like, that was very important to me. um And I think it's, you know, no matter what people are going through um in their lives, you know, it it doesn't just have to be cancer. It can be any kind of health or mental or any kind of, you know, issue. I think it's just important to you know to to be empathetic and to understand. you know You might not know all of the details, but I think we have to be kind and like allow people the space you know that they need to heal and to be understanding when people need time away from work. um you know that's just That definitely changed within me, you know within that experience, to then share it with other people and to always you know, give people more the benefit of the doubt, you know, because work will always be there, you know, but um the the relationships and the kindness and the way you make people feel, um it's just very important. um and and And something that will always, you know, go beyond you, you know, even your time on this earth is like how how you make people feel. Kathleen Moss You mentioned needing an advocate ah when you were first diagnosed and it sounds like you did find that in your second job after diagnosis. What did that look like? where Where did that advocacy come from and how was that powerful in your life? Tina Conrad Yeah, I love I love sharing and like helping other women you know through through difficult situations. um I saw that within my mom. She's not so much on the global scale, but you know she would take a woman aside and say, like oh, you're not sure what a double mastectomy looks like. I'll show you. you know And she'd take them to the bathroom and show. you know And she was just very kind you know to people who needed maybe you know just a kind word or or a moment. And so I think giving back was always very important to me. um And I feel like, you know, there's so many things we can do boots on the ground to help women, but also research is so important. So first and foremost, I always wanna know, you know like we're just coming off of October when we're recording this, but where's the money going to that helps women? Not just only for the short term. um Women do need help, like obviously to within a diagnosis, but what can we do to help the next generation not experience what we did, whether it be through vaccines, whether it be through new trials, metastatic breast cancer, there's clearly so many things that we need to help others with. And so that's very important to me. And so it's, it was not enough for me to just, you know, walk away from the community, I felt like I needed a way to give back. And so, um you know, whether it was speaking at various events, whether it was starting up a podcast, um it was just, you know, very important for me to, to help other women and then to, you know, to support them through whatever they're going through. Kathleen Moss Well, thank you for doing that. It definitely impacted me in a good way. Tina Conrad Oh, good. Thank you. Kathleen Moss How was your mom's openness about her mastectomy and the way her body looked after mastectomy? How did that inform your experience going into mastectomy? Tina Conrad I think it was very important. You know, she was very transparent with me. You know, clearly she believed because she she she was told by a doctor, you know, oh, just get the lumpectomy. You're young, you know, this will all be fine. um And then they came back, you know, almost in the same location three years later. So For us, it was very important you know that she shared that experience. She wanted the best for me. She wanted to do the most. you know That would give me the most longevity of life. and so you know she was very much an advocate for me to do as much as possible, obviously, too to be um as vigilant you know to to that. And the way that I think my dad loved her through it is I also feel like the way my husband loved me through it, you know which is to make a woman just feel beautiful in the body that they're in. And so i I feel very blessed you know to have a husband that loves me and told me every day of like every day of my cancer, whether I had no hair, whether you know um I was in the bathroom, whether I had you know this crazy bra on, you know like I just felt loved through it. And I feel like it's it's very important um you know to surround yourself with that kind of love you know of Whatever kind of support that looks like for you, but find people who will love you through it um Because you are beautiful each and every day of of your journey And so I think it's just important that you've you know, feel that and find people that tell you that as well She did yes, yes she did um, and I mean she looks great like she's she's doing great Kathleen Moss Did your mom have reconstruction of any sort? Tina Conrad Yeah, I just went to a softball game of hers today. She's 69 years old and she's out there you know playing women's softball, which is pretty amazing. you know So um you know just to see her and like you know living her best life you know and um it's great. So I think that she's you know so she's such an inspiration to me each and every day of wanting, continuing to take care, be active, um but also you know like help other women and you know um love them through it. Kathleen Moss So was her her experience having reconstruction probably informed your level of confidence going forward into reconstruction too? Tina Conrad Yes, yes, definitely. You know, things have even changed from the time that she had been diagnosed and then I was about 10 years later till when I was diagnosed. And then, you know, I talked to people now going through various things and things continue to advance, you know, each and every time. so you know, I think that is part of where the science is moving forward, you know, and and we need to keep doing what we can to keep that moving forward. But um, I'm, you know, it definitely gave me confidence that like, you know, hey, I can still feel like a woman, I can still walk into a room, I can still do all of this, you know, and, and feel my, myself, you know, and so, you know, that was a great example for me through all of it. Kathleen Moss Yeah, it seems like i I feel like if I put myself in your shoes or my niece who also works in a kind of corporate America retail job, I definitely would value my breasts more. I think I would have given deep flap or implants a little bit more thought probably. So did you get implants? Tina Conrad I did. Yes. Yes. Kathleen Moss And you're 11 years out. Tina Conrad Yeah. Kathleen Moss So have you thought about getting your implants replaced or have you gotten them replaced? Tina Conrad I have not. It is on my radar to talk about actually I have like all new doctors because I'm in Florida. So I think that will but probably be like a consideration. My mom still has like her original ones too. So, but yeah, just like, um, I want to be transparent, like have those, I want to ask more questions. You know, like, I think, um, that's what's maybe great about our generation and below is like, we ask the questions, you know, we, we probe a little bit more. Um, maybe we're a little skeptical, but that's fine. You know, like that just means you're taking your own health into your hands. And I think that that's important. So yeah, I want to do what's like best for me. I i don't know. I don't, I don't feel like I have to have implants like all of my life. I would be fine like with another route too. Um, so I just want to do what obviously gives me the healthiest outlook, um, on life in general. Kathleen Moss Mm hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I've met a few people locally who are in that spot where they're like 10 years out and they have been told in the past that their implants, you know, would last 10 years and they're just in that quandary of like, I don't know, should I get them replaced? And do I want to go through all that again? And it's an interesting little crossroads to reach, you know, especially as you're aging, this person in particular that I'm thinking of is quite a bit older than me. And she's like, I don't have use for them anymore. So maybe it's not worth the trouble. So interesting to think about all of those choices that we continue to have in this and this story. Tina Conrad Yeah, yeah It never, never, it kind of goes away, but it never goes away. you know oh So yeah, yeah. You never know. Kathleen Moss Yeah. I wanted to ask you about your spiritual life. Your podcast site has a really clear kind of progression into more and more talk of spirituality and especially within the Christian tradition. And I know that your spirituality, your beliefs and your faith have really informed the way that you look at your breast cancer experience. And so I wanted to ask you about um a scripture passage that you feel is central to your story and has given meaning to your breast cancer experience. Tina Conrad Well, actually, like just to set it up a little bit, I had had like a kind of a pain in like my arm, and so I had gone in to get some scans done. And then I was awaiting... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/34731635

A Diary Entry about Recurrence Scares 01/19/2025

A Diary Entry about Recurrence Scares This episode is an update from my personal story. I had a recurrence scare in November/Dec/January of 2024 and 2025, and this is the way it's sorting itself out. Always something to learn! --Kathleen Transcript: Welcome back to season two. Today's episode is episode three of this new season. And as promised last week, I will just be talking about my own story this week. I had a recent recurrence scare and I think it's resolving nicely. It's kind of an interesting non ending that I'm at right now. I really thought that it would be all understood by now, but it's still a little bit of a mystery. But, um, at least my pathology came back okay, so that's good. And I, uh, Wanted to share this, not because I think it's so interesting or profound, but because I think it's good. You hear a lot of stories of recurrence that don't end well or that end with cancer, and you don't hear a lot of stories of recurrence scares that do end well. And I think a lot of us keep our recurrence possibilities really silent because we don't want to worry people, and that's a really good intention and probably a good plan, but When we do keep them completely to ourselves, it can really eat away at us. And so I want to encourage people to tell their stories and be open and willing to upset people or worry people. It's been really hard for me to do so. So I'm not saying it's easy, but I just want to set that example for anyone else out there that struggles with this. I know a lot of us have quite a few recurrent scares in our journey. So it's unfortunately something that happens pretty often for a lot of us. So I'll tell my story briefly. Started in early November. I had a little lump about half the size of a dime and maybe two times as tall as a dime on my chest right in the center and thankfully it was in a really easily identifiable spot because I had still have a floral tattoo on my chest, and it was right in the center of one of the roses on my chest. And so I went to see my oncologist. I actually happened to already have an appointment with her set up, so I didn't have to scramble to set one up. And it actually was still there when I got there, and she felt it too. And as the days passed, uh, through mid November, it got a little more tender, a little bit more painful to the touch. And then suddenly, one day, it was gone. And she did order an ultrasound, but that ultrasound took many weeks to set up. I won't go into all the reasons why, but, uh, it was quite delayed. And before I even got to that ultrasound that she ordered, STAT, in early November, I was ordered an MRI from months prior, just on a regular schedule, to do an every other year MRI for surveillance. because I still have a little bit of breast tissue, um, possible in my Goldilocks mastectomy side. And so I'm eligible for an every other year MRI, which is nice because I really like the idea of doing surveillance as much as I can. So that came up actually before the ultrasound. I did finally get the ultrasound set up for mid December. Um, but, um, The MRI came up beforehand and it was in the first week of December and by that time, the lump had completely disappeared. I had no thought of it. I actually never really got worried about it because I've had so many little false alarms on my chest. I've had little bumps and lumps and, um, cysts and, like, Just tiny little skin things that are irritating. I've just gotten used to having those. I've never had them ever before breast cancer, but I think it's pretty common to have them after. And so I've had so many false alarms that I've just been kind of numbed to them. And so I wasn't worried about it, didn't think a thing of it. I thought I had completely resolved until I got the call from the MRI. um, assistant, the radiologist assistant saying that there was something on my MRI and they wanted me to come in for an ultrasound. So I said, well, I already have an ultrasound set up. So that's perfect. I don't even have to wait this time. So um, I did have that, assistant person who called me, read me the orders from the radiologist because I knew it would be really hard to get access to that. And I knew I'd be worried about that. And so that's something I'm really glad that I did. Unfortunately, she didn't read me the whole thing. She summarized it in her own words and got it way wrong. And so, which is a good thing. In the end, it was a blessing because I was a lot less worried. Um, there were actually two areas of concern on that MRI. One was in my chest wall and one was in a lymph node. So as soon as I heard from her about this, I went and felt for my lymph node, and I felt it right away. It was like the same tender kind of lump that I had felt in my chest, the same feeling had kind of migrated into my underarm. And from then on I felt it just about every day just to kind of keep track of it. And Pretty soon after that, I did have the ultrasound just a few days later, and so that was good. The radiologist that I go to for my ultrasounds now, is not a part of my hospital system. She has her own private clinic, so she runs her own radiology clinic and imaging center. And so, um, she always does this, which is amazing, but she offered to just go ahead and biopsy. it with a needle right on the spot, um, because she did see concern. She did, uh, rate it as a BI RADS 4, which is suspicious. She called it a lymph node. She said she would do a little needle biopsy, and I said, No, I really want to wait, talk to my oncologist. I don't want to jump into anything. I think I might want to have the whole lymph node out. Mostly because I, I've had a history of lobular breast cancer and I know that needles can miss that in biopsies. Um, and then later on I was thinking about it and I thought, oh, I know another reason why I said no. It's because I have a reaction to titanium and I knew she'd leave a titanium clip in, as a marker, and that would have been a really stressful decision for me on the spot. So it's really good that I had time to think about it. I had time to email back and forth with my oncologist who was on leave at that time. She was on vacation, but she was great at responding to my emails and I decided to have Or to try to have a surgical biopsy, which means you take the whole lymph node out as a whole with an incision, um, small surgery. And I couldn't find, at first I couldn't find a surgeon that would do that. I talked to one surgeon and her staff and she said no. And then the second surgeon I talked to was my actual first breast cancer surgeon. She had done my first mastectomy and she said yes. So we scheduled it, it was just a week later, it was a week ago. And a week and two days, a week and three or four days ago from now. And I had to go under anesthesia and it was just really clear. She said she remembered where it was. She didn't even like feel for it to see where it was. She just drew a little line on the edge of my, where my chest meets my underarm. And she did the incision. And at the end of my surgery she told my husband, I think I got it. I didn't see it, but all I saw was scar tissue, so I wouldn't have seen it. Um, but I believe it was inside. What I did get had to wait a week for pathology and just a couple days ago Pathology came back. I Went in to see her. I had scheduled an appointment to go over pathology and just before I went in to see her I did peek at my chart, which I am NOT Now, I am regretting that. I'm not thinking that was a good decision and I think in the future I will try really hard not to look at my chart to find my pathology report before sitting in a room with a professional because what it said was no lymphoid tissue detected. So basically it said nope. We didn't get the lymph node and I was flipping out. I was like, Oh no, I just went through all this surgery. I didn't anesthesia, all this recovery, you know, everything all for the sake of not getting a single thing. We missed it. It's still in there. I showed up to her office just a couple hours later and with that attitude of like, Oh, Dang, let's get an ultrasound and make sure it's still in there. And she said, Oh, we can't have an ultrasound. Um, you're all inflamed from the surgery. You'll be inflamed for at least a couple months. We'll do it in about three months. And I was like, I can't wait three months to find out if this thing is still in me. Can you do it a little sooner than that? She said, yeah, she could do it in two months, but no sooner than two months. So I was like, Oh man. And she said, I really don't think that it's still in there. I think it never was. There never was a lymph node in there. And at first I was like, I mean, It was in there and then it just went away right before surgery because I felt it in there. And she was like, no, I think it was maybe something else that looked a lot like a lymph node. And, um, just was really, really convincingly looking like a lymph node on both the MRI and ultrasound. And I said, well, all they found was fat and scar tissue on the pathology report. So how could those things be? And then I showed her my latest ultrasound. which had just happened less than a week prior to surgery. It was just three days prior and it said that I had blood flow detected to the lymph node that they were supposed to take out. And I was like, there's no blood flow. That goes to fat or scar tissue. Like that doesn't make sense, right? Like, and she couldn't really answer that, but I came out of her office feeling really, really confused. Like my head was just spinning and I knew I should be grateful that pathology said it was benign tissue. There was no cancer. That's the result that I was desperately wanting. But I, the fact that I couldn't understand the story and the narrative, I couldn't put it together. It was another puzzle that I couldn't solve, was really frustrating to me and I'm sure it would've been to anyone. And so that's kind of where I'm at now. Um, it wasn't as black and white as I thought it would be. For the first 24 hours after my meeting with her, I was thinking, I'm pretty sure there's still a lymph node in me and we're gonna find it in two months. Um. Then, you know, I went to bed and woke up the next morning and thought, you know, maybe she's right. Maybe there's some other explanation. I need to keep learning. I need to keep asking people who would know. So my oncologist might know. I'll talk to her about it. I have an appointment with her next week. Talk to other breast cancer survivors. Maybe they've had this weird situation where they had something that looked like a lymph node inside of them. And uh, One of the things I really started to do was kind of blame myself for not getting that titanium marker, which is kind of the protocol for these situations. You want to mark the lymph node before you take it out. And yet this surgeon had said she didn't need a marker. I was willing to get one when I went in with her, as long as she was willing to also take out the whole lymph node along with the marker. She said she wouldn't even need a marker. That was really reassuring to me at the time, but then I thought, oh man, how stupid was I if I'd only had a titanium marker put in? I would know if there was still a lymph node in me or not. It would be really clear that either what they took out with the marker was not a lymph node and we thought it was, or they didn't get the marker, so they didn't get the lymph node. Very black and white. This is kind of kicking myself and really appreciating the wisdom of protocol, but Over the days, the last few days, I've had more insight and I think now I'm realizing that I can create the narrative for myself. I don't know what's true, I may never know what's true, that may really drive me crazy but I can create a narrative of what is the most plausible, the most likely situation in light of the fact that I have a strong body that has incredibly strong markers right now. I'm not. having like high cancer markers or anything like that. All my inflammation markers have been low prior to surgery. So I have every reason to think that my immune system is strong, my body is strong, and my body is able to fight off anything that would be concerning. So worst case scenario is there was a lymph node that was concerning and it was starting to build a blood supply and that would have been really worth worrying about. Maybe when it started to build the blood supply and my body started to detect what was going on, my immune system came in and zapped it and it was all just necrotic tissue and it just showed up on the pathology report as necrosis and fatty necrosis because it was just that. that my body had killed the lymph node, and it was no longer recognizable as a lymph node. I don't know if that's even possible, but I definitely will run it by my oncologist. But that's the narrative that I'm going to tell myself, because I can. And because I have nothing else that is Conclusively true, that I can tell myself. Uh, which is so often the case in these situations. You don't get the black and the white, you get the gray. You get more complexity instead of more simplicity. And that can be frustrating. So that's kind of where I'm at now. I'm still kind of wondering if there's a lymph node in there. I can feel without pain and kind of feel around and I don't feel a lump anymore. So that's part of the reason why I'm thinking maybe it's not. It is really confusing to think about that. Last ultrasound report saying that there was some blood flow and I would like to talk to my radiologist and I'll get to when I get that next ultrasound. So I will get to pick her brain about that as well, which will be really good. So I'm very fortunate I have access to all the people that have all the information. Just need a little, wait a little while and get that information. Um, and just be patient. And then I'll maybe have an even more convincing narrative to tell myself. But I just realized, like, this time around, you know, in my mastectomy experience, I had this little journal. It was like a little travel journal that fits in your purse. And I used that to note all the facts and diagnoses and terms and research that was important to me and my journey and decision making. But I didn't write a narrative in it. I didn't, Tell my story and this time I have a bigger travel journal and I'm calling it my surveillance journal for the rest of my life after the initial occurrence and I'm gonna write in there all the facts and dates and figures and you know diagnoses and terms But I'm also gonna write the story. I'm gonna write it in my own words I'm gonna write what I believed and what I told myself Um, because I think that is even more important than keeping track of what happened in a clinical sense and a literal biological sense is what did we tell ourselves about what happened? How did it feel? What did I notice? What were the things that were standing out to me? Because my intuition is the most important intuition in the room and my story matters. Even if it doesn't make the doctors do things differently. In this case, it actually did. My story and my desire to have a whole lymph node dissection through surgery was actually granted. And that's another part of the story that I'm really glad for because I was heard and people took me seriously and, um, they did things a little out of the ordinary because of my story, because my story mattered to me. So that's something I brought out of this kind of flustering, confusing, um, recurrence scare besides the fact that I'm just grateful that I am a well individual now. I am not sick as I feared that I would be. And then I've also been kind of struggling with The idea of when these things happen, it's so freaking awkward to like think about who I want to include on my updates every week when I get new information. And I hate putting that email list together. And so this time instead of just assuming that my closest friends and family wanted to be on an update list and putting an email together and forcing it on them like I did in my mastectomy, which I think is pretty fair, This is not a mastectomy, it's a little less intense. So what I did is I waited for people to hear my story in person from me. And then if they said, keep me updated, I'd say, would you mind if I put you on an email list because I will forget to individually check in with you. There's too many people that want to be updated and I know I'll forget someone. So if you don't mind, I'll just stick you on that email list and I'm going to write an email update. And they'd always be fine with that. So, over the weeks between November and January, while all this was happening, I added people to that email list. And yet, I still felt a little bit, like, overly verbose, overly worrying them, maybe not having permission to give them all the nitty gritty details. And so, I've decided that in the future, another approach that I'm going to take is, I'm going to do, like, it's called a Caring Bridge blog it's like a, an online, a free online resource for people who are sick, who just write what's going on with them. And the people who really care, who really do want to know, will either subscribe to that and get a notification each time a new thing is written, or they can just check in when they get worried about that person. And maybe they won't get worried about that person until they die. But. My insight recently was my friend died. She was down in San Francisco. I was going down to San Francisco. I told her I'm coming. I'm gonna come see you. It doesn't matter if you're sick. She had metastatic cancer. It wasn't breast cancer. Um, and, and then my email or my text messages started to not getting replies. So like right when I left to go down there, I didn't hear back from her. And then I didn't hear back from her and I thought, oh my god, she's, she died. I know she died, I just feel it. And I chose not to check in with any of my friends who were on Facebook, cause I don't have Facebook on my phone, but, I figured it would be on Facebook but I decided to go ahead and enjoy my trip in San Francisco and wait till I got home and then I would ask a friend who was on Facebook, um, and I think I was in the airport when I asked my friend, have you heard anything about Susanna? And she said, oh yeah, I'm just checking now and it does say that she passed away a couple weeks ago. Anyway, Susanna had a CaringBridge blog and I had been checking it. I didn't have it set up for notifications, but I did know how to access it. And I'd read a couple of her entries just prior to my leaving town. And I thought it was such a gift that she made that blog, um, because I could look back as far as I wanted and hear as many details as I wanted about her sickness and her struggle and being in hospital and everything. Um, And I could only, you know, do as much as I want and no more, but it was so nice to hear her whole story from her perspective at the end of her life in a way that was concise and didn't exactly have an end because you never know. And she got a very intense infection at the last minute. So she didn't really know that she was dying, but I thought it would be nice to be able to leave that. It sounds morbid. It sounds like you're, you know, overly focused on the future maybe, but I think it is. It's kind of a gift, like, so I decided to start a CaringBridge, and I'm not gonna write much in it because not much is going on for me right now, but as I do work on how to resolve the stress that comes with these kinds of things, and I, my guess is that I'm gonna just kind of take my surveillance into my own hands and spend some money that insurance would not reimburse me for, and go to get a diffusion weighted MRI, which is much more specific than a typical MRI. Or maybe I'll find an amazing liquid biopsy that's actually proven to work. Some of them are showing promise, but a lot of them are just... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/34901850

Breast Surgeons, Flat Denial and BRCA2 01/12/2025

Breast Surgeons, Flat Denial and BRCA2 The topic of breast surgery and skin conserving surgery has been a real trigger for me in the past since my first plastic surgeon kept refusing to take the extra skin off of my chest as I requested. The fact that I could talk to Lisa about this without getting emotionally worked up was one good sign--and then I had two other chances to talk publicly about my flat denial story in the past month as well. When it rains it pours! Transcript: Happy New Year and welcome to season two of A Breast Cancer Diary podcast. Last week, I aired my first episode of season two with Lisa Sylvester, founder of the project Still.Me or “STILL project.” She is just now coming out with her new book or two different books, actually the compendium and the anthology of her photography and storytelling project, called "Project Still Me". And the website is project-still.me if you want to look it up, um, it's now available for sale. So on the day of the last podcast episode airing, it was the day before it was available for sale. So if you heard that podcast right away as it aired, you may have been too early to purchase her two different books. So just want to remind you to go back and do that now if you intended to, those books are ideally for the eyes of patients and surgeons, and we talked a lot about the idea of reaching out to surgeons to help them to understand the second half of the story, the half of our lives that happens after we interact with them. Uh, a lot of breast cancer survivors have different things that happen, um, whether they explant or go on to really appreciate their new bodies. Their surgeons don't always get to hear about it. So Lisa's mission in this project, which was an amazingly ambitious and talent filled project of mostly photography and, publishing and graphic design,. This is meant for the eyes of surgeons, especially, and hopefully, we can all come together to partner with these surgeons of ours to get it out in the world and allow them to use it as a tool in their consult rooms prior to surgery. And all of the women in the STILL anthology are, flat. They went flat either after having implants or just straight to flat after a mastectomy. And so it's just another alternative to the very, strongly pushed option of, of having implants. That's so common right now. Lisa has been working with Kim Bowles from Not Putting on a Shirt and getting connected to a very special conference coming up this spring called ASBRS. It is a special conference that is just for surgeons. At this time, unlike some of the other breast cancer conferences, They don't allow advocates into this conference, so there's not an open door for advocates or patient advocates, um, to come in and have a voice. So, unfortunately, we flatties won't be able to attend that conference unless we're doctors, um, especially surgeons. I think, even if you were a doctor and not a surgeon, you probably wouldn't attend that conference. But it is in Vegas this spring, and the hope is that surgeons will be at least open to the idea and will see some of the images in large scale format. Um, they're going to have them in big posters at the conference so that they're hard to miss. They don't have to walk up to a booth or a table to look at the book. They'll have, they'll see the posters in large scale format and hopefully some surgeons, um, some of them already are big fans of going flat. They can appreciate going flat, but a lot of surgeons are really pushing implants, and there's this kind of common narrative that's going around. I'm not sure where it started, but, um, there's a belief among surgeons that women are way more, mentally well in the long run if they have implants because their bodies look more like their natural bodies or, the bodies that they had prior to mastectomy. And that is, A really great assumption. I mean, it's a natural assumption that I would agree with if I hadn't been through this, um, and talked to so many women with implants, many women with implants are very, very happy with their implants, but many women with implants are not and the truth is that many and most of us who are flat are very happy with our new flat bodies. And I actually had a chance to testify to that in person, um, with my knees knocking at the big breast cancer global gathering in San Antonio this last month in December. I wasn't planning to take the mic and talk to a room full of surgeons, but I just happened to stumble into, um, a talk, uh, about a couple of different studies and I didn't realize going in that the studies were about this topic of mental wellness post mastectomy and, with skin sparing and tissue sparing mastectomies being preferable for women's wellness and mental health as the argument. And I haven't looked at the details or the methods of the two studies mentioned. They were studies out of Japan and the UK, but the outcome of those two studies was arguing for saving as much breast tissue and skin as possible for the sake of, of long term mental health and wellness of women patients. And that kind of, you know, triggered me a little bit and made me wonder if those studies were well administered or if they were asking leading questions, which, you know, those kinds of studies almost are guaranteed to be doing. If you agree to do that kind of study, you're kind of going in with the expectation that you're going to want to praise your personal doctors who've saved your life and saved you from breast cancer instead of criticizing them and the work that they're doing. So, It's really hard to be objective as a patient in that kind of study. It's a questionnaire based study, usually, and it's not done personally. It's not done within the context of community, which is where a lot of our body image healing happens in the context of community. But if you're doing a little survey and you're isolated and alone and you haven't had conversations with other survivors about body image issues, then you may not have even broached the question before. So it's a much deeper issue than what these surgeons were, um, you know, optimistically thinking. And the sweet, sweet man who was presenting the data was just so well intentioned, I couldn't possibly be critical of him. I did wanna tell the other side of the story because he was really arguing for pressing women to save as much breast, tissue and skin as they possibly could. And so many women do not want to save their breast tissue, number one, because they don't want to fear their cancer coming back in that breast tissue, which is a legitimate fear. Um. And so I got up to the mic and said, I am just one person, but I'm very happy with my flat body. And I want to tell you that there are a lot of us who are pleased after going flat. There's a lot less anxiety, a lot less fear of recurrence, whether that's legitimate and rational and based on data or not. It's true. And without any breast tissue, I feel lighter and more comfortable in the world. And I. didn't take long to get used to my body and I'm heterosexual, female presenting, married to a man who is male presenting. And I'm very, very happy with this flat body of mine. And I had to fight for it because my surgeon wasn't willing to give it to me when I asked twice. And the third time I went to a new surgeon and got what I wanted, which was flatness. And of course, you know, I was super nervous, shaking. I didn't want to stay in that room a minute longer than I had to. And the man that I was addressing was very gracious and kind in his response. His motto was, think twice, cut once. Meaning, think twice about taking that extra tissue and skin and then cut. And I told him, I would like for you to think twice and ask once and cut once, but asking is really important. And that's something that was not truly done for me and so many of the women that I've talked to that have been denied flatness. So that was a big kind of marker in my life as an advocate and, activist. I was really uncomfortable the rest of the whole day, walking around knowing that some of the people in that dark ballroom that I had spoken up in, probably knew me where I hadn't looked at their faces. And I felt really uncomfortable in one sense, but also very gratified. in another sense. And actually this last week I had another really amazing opportunity to speak up about my experience of flat denial with my former surgeon, not the plastic surgeon that denied me flatness. That would have been extremely intense. And emotional for me, but the other surgeon who was in the room, my breast surgeon, who I think knew that I wanted to be flat both times. I'm not 100 percent sure that she knew that because most of my conversation about wanting to be left flat was with my plastic surgeon in a one on one consult with her. So I wasn't really resentful towards this breast surgeon of mine. But I didn't know if I'd ever have a chance to talk to her in a clinical setting again. Unfortunately, I've had a little recurrent scare, and so I did have a chance to talk to her this last week. And I told her very clearly that I was very unhappy with the outcomes that I was left with on both of my first two surgeries with her and that plastic surgeon. And I asked her if she still used that plastic surgeon, and she said she did. And so I pressed her to really think about it and I gave her some literature from Not Putting On A Shirt and Stand Tall AFC to point out to that surgeon in particular about how women who say they want to go flat really want to look, we want to look flat without any extra skin. And so I was very direct with her and kind, and I think I got my point across, and I still trust her enough to go into surgery with her. Uh, this week, I'm going in on Thursday for, uh, a surgical biopsy, uh, for at least one lymph node. I feel another lymph node kind of, you Coming out too, so I may have two lymph nodes that are taken out, but we'll see what comes out of that. I thought that my own personal breast cancer diary was over, but we may be having some diary entries about my continued experience here soon, both on my YouTube channel, Estrogen Diaries, and here possibly, because I don't want to leave you in the dark about what's going on with my personal diagnosis and my own story as I'm telling other people's stories here. So the other thing that I talked to Lisa Sylvester about last week in the episode that aired on Sunday was her BRCA2 mutation, and I also wanted to address that. Two, two topics I wanted to talk about today. First was breast surgeons and plastic surgeons in particular. Second one was the BRCA2 mutation because I hadn't had, I don't think I've had it a guest yet that had um, prophylactic mastectomies because of the BRCA2 mutation. And I talked to Lisa a little bit about her kids and the fact that they would eventually get tested for that same mutation. Just wanted to describe a little bit about what BRCA2 is. There's BRCA1 and BRCA2. They're both mutations in a very good gene. BRCA is not a bad gene, it's a good gene that we all have. Um, you And if you have a mutation in it, it means that gene is broken. So the, the gene itself is a, a cancer DNA repairing gene. So it repairs the DNA that would lead to cancer or further cancer growth in specific cells. Um, it's kind of a, a self fixing bit of DNA. And that gene is, is a really, really life giving gene. And for whatever reason, some individuals have developed mutations that can be passed down from father and grandfather, mother and grandmother, and they don't hit everyone. Of course, it's not guaranteed. They're going to be passed down to you if your mother or your grandmother had them. But once you know that someone in your family has had them, it is very wise to get tested these days. And not everyone, but some individuals who are testing positive for that mutation. So that broken. bit of DNA of genetic, um, machinery do choose to have prophylactic mastectomies, which is a preventative mastectomy, to ensure that they don't ever get breast cancer by taking out all of the breast cells, the breast tissue. And it also puts your, uh, ovaries at risk of ovarian cancer, that mutation. So some women go as far as having their ovaries removed as well. And that's a really intense and personal decision. Um, it's something we may talk a little bit more about with others who come on the podcast. But for now, I just wanted to define what that mutation is, how it works, uh, why it's a little bit scary and why so many women are sacrificing their breasts because of it. There have been. Celebrities that have sacrificed their breasts because of this mutation. And I'm sure there are celebrities that have not done so. Because there are plenty of people who have the mutation that have chosen not to give up their anatomy because of it. It's a tough decision. Something that you really should talk to a genetic counselor about because that's what they're trained to talk about. And probably just a regular mental health therapist would be a good one to talk to you about it as well if you're interested and you're testing positive for BRCA2 or BRCA1. In the future, I'm sure we'll learn about other mutations that are passed down. Germline mutations are what they're called. Um, there are also a different type of mutation that happens inside your particular tumor and your particular cancer cells, um, that are not passed down from your mother or grandmother, and those are called somatic mutations. So that's pretty confusing and really basic if you're interested in breast cancer science and studying some of the genetic studies that are going on right now. There's so many of them. A lot of why our cancers mutate and develop strength over time. And come back and recur and develop metastatic strength is because they have that ability to mutate somatically. So within the cell, within the tumor. Um, so it's something that's happening just in that little microenvironment of the cancer. And we don't understand why or how that happens, and we're developing drugs more and more to address each mutation. which is really, really hopeful. Um, it's amazing how fast we do move considering all of the barriers in place that keep us from moving fast in developing new drugs. I'm always in awe when I'm down in San Antonio at that conference that I went to last month, learning about all of the drugs that are being tested. in a given point in time. I also learned a lot about, um, a, a really fun study on DCIS that I'm super excited to follow. It's still very, very young in its development. It's only two years old, but they did do preliminary data reporting on it. I'll, I'll do a video on that soon on my estrogen diaries, YouTube channel. So stay tuned for that. The next guest that I'll have is Tina Conrad from. The podcast called DJ Breast Cancer, and she's no longer running that podcast, but she has lots of episodes and seasons to listen to, and I'm a fan of that one. It's just another storytelling podcast telling individual women's stories in their unique ways and unique perspectives. So we'll hear from Tina, Her interview is mainly about, um, being a professional with cancer, with breast cancer and staying a business professional with breast cancer. Most of us bow out of our high intensity jobs as breast cancer survivors, but some of us stay with them and she was one that stayed with it. And I'm just so in awe of that and I wanted to hear more about that part of her story. So she'll be my next guest, but not necessarily next week. I think next week I may do kind of a last minute update about my own cancer recurrence scare and how it turned out. I should know. Um, hopefully I'll know my pathology results by then, and hopefully this will all be behind me, but I can kind of tell the whole story from start to finish, um, in the next episode if there is anything to worry about and tell you my next steps and my plan, uh, just to let you know kind of more personally what my December has been like, it's all been within the month of December that I had an MRI and ultrasound, and now I'm having biopsies, so I will keep you up to date in my personal story in the next episode, I'm hoping, and in the meantime, I will be On, estrogen diaries, making videos about the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium. So, watch that if you're on YouTube. And I will see you in one of those places very soon. Again, Happy New Year and stay well. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/34731480

STILL Ourselves after Mastectomy 01/05/2025

STILL Ourselves after Mastectomy My instagram friend, Lisa, had a vision less than a year ago for a visual way to show the how the flat community has become a healing movement for women who don't want the usual reconstruction options post-mastectomy, and this week it is coming out into the breast cancer space as a work of art! I love that I can share the story of a vision come true and share it on the day before the end result comes into the world! Find Lisa's project on her website here: https://project-still.me/ Transcript: Kathleen: My guest today is Lisa Sylvester. She lives in Richmond, Vermont, and I've been following her on Instagram for probably about a year now. We're fellow Flatties and proud of it. And she's the owner of a company called Interrobang Design. She and her husband run this company. Small business in Vermont, and it's a graphic design studio, and she has a new project coming out of this graphic design business that I'm so excited to talk to her about today. I haven't really dug in with her about it just because I wanted to save the conversation for the podcast. So this is really, truly fresh, new information that I'm super excited to hear about. Welcome Lisa! Lisa Sylvester: Hi. Thank you. Well, I'm happy to be here. K: You're a previvor. So Tell me a little bit about how you found out about your BRCA2 mutation L: Yeah. So I have been having breast cancer and ovarian cancer scares like throughout my adult life and my OBGYN worried about me and at one point she said, you know, what do you think about doing genetic testing just so we can know if we are really have something that we need to be aware of, uh, you know, could inform my healthcare kind of thing. And I was like, yeah, let's, let's just find out. And I thought it was going to be negative. I don't really have a strong. Um, family history of cancer. In fact, no breast cancer history at all and only one, um, ovarian cancer, um, person in my family. Um, my genetic counselor thought it was going to be negative two. Um, and so we were all surprised when we came back with a positive for BRCA2. Um, so I'm the first in my family to find out about it. which was the can of worms everybody warns you about with genetic testing because that meant I now had to inform my entire family about this new, new this news. K: And how long ago was that? L: That was three and a half years ago. And I was pretty, I'm pretty, I'm a research monger. So like when I found out about it, I was like, okay, what are we going to do about this? And I knew what my options were before I had my consultation with my, um, doctor and, and, um, it was my genetic counselor and an oncologist actually, and, um, they were surprised that I wanted a mastectomy. They actually tried to talk me out of it because they said they're really good at catching cancer early. I thought, well, I don't actually want to catch it. I would rather like nip it in the bud if we can possibly. So I felt like, um, the mastectomy was the right choice for me. Um, and they also pushed implants right at that initial consultation. And I wasn't sure that that was right for me either. And when I told them I was interested in going flat, that set off alarm bells for them as well. K: Had you ever met anyone that had had a mastectomy? L: Um, so, um, interesting story, when I told my mom about this, she was in her 80s, and my mom is a total caregiver, she likes to help people feel better, uh, but she was, like, had some dementia, and hearing loss, and as I was talking with her, I wasn't sure she really knew what I was saying to her, um, but all of a sudden she got upset It's up and ran outside and started talking with her neighbor who was trimming her shrubs for her. And she came back in and she said, Suzanne, my neighbor had a double mastectomy and she'd be happy to talk with you. So she didn't know how to me feel better herself, but she knew who to put me in connection with to do that. So she marched me out to the driveway conversation with this woman who I barely knew about mastectomies and she showed me her scars and, and we had a long talk about it and she was the first person I met. in real life that had had a mastectomy. My grandmother, my mother's mother, also had one in her forties, but I was told it was not because of cancer. And I learned from, again, healthcare professionals that back then it was not uncommon for women to have mastectomies for other reasons. Um, so she had a radical bilateral mastectomy and wore prosthetics after that. K: When Suzanne showed you her scars, was she flat chested or was she, did she have…? L: She was flat chested, but she wore prosthetics. K: How did you feel when you saw her scars? L: You know, I had been looking around online, so they kind of, I knew a little bit of what to expect and they kind of felt right in line with that. So I wasn't surprised really to see them. It was like confirmation. Maybe it was like, Oh, okay. Yes, this is indeed what this looks like. K: And how did you find the flat community for the first time? How long did that take? L: Um, it didn't take long. So I first found, um, photos. Of flatties, just on the internet, just random searches um, and then I found not putting on a shirt and actually use their surgeon, um, directory to find a surgeon and, um, and then I think I found the Instagram groups, um, and I was like, wow. Here it is. There's where all the answers are. Yeah, it was pretty compelling. Because, you know, the, um, the story that we're fed, right, is that, um, women need to have breasts. That women, like, women and breasts go together, right? They're not separatable, if that's a word. But, um, that we can't be whole or healthy or beautiful without them. And it was those women that I found on, um, Instagram, I told a very, very different story in them. I saw strength and empowerment and beauty and femininity and, um, confidence. And I was like, this is not that trope. This is something very, very different. it was super compelling. And I knew once I saw that, once I found that community, that that going flat was right for me. K: Did you find them using hashtags or just, did you stumble upon them accidentally or? L: Hashtags. K: Mm hmm. And describe for our listeners that haven't experienced this phenomenon. What does it look like? What did you see when you went on to these different accounts and saw photos of women that had gone flat? L: I saw an incredible amount of bravery. Um, people that were just sharing their truth with, um, pretense. So it was about showing exactly who they are, showing their bare chests, telling their true stories, um, without doctoring it up to look pretty. It wasn't like the perfect Instagram photo. They were raw and real um, and it was just very, very compelling. K: What are some of your favorite accounts that you remember from way back? L: Um, so “not in the pink” was one of the first ones—just a fashion icon and what's not to love. Um, and then, um, I don't, I don't, I'm, I'm really bad at remembering people's handles. So I'm not going to be able to come up with a lot of others. But there were a handful that were sort of, um, very forward, meaning that they were just posting frequently. So seeing a lot of their, their content and, um, just really really liked what they were saying, um, liked the whole sort of body positivity stance that they were promoting, whether that was intentional or not. Um, it was people that were showing themselves without makeup, like I said, regardless of their size or their shape or else was going on, they were just showing their bodies as they were. And um, there was an honesty there that was just really, really important. Um, moving. K: Have you ever met someone from the flat community in person? L: Um, so this is actually a good segue into my story… so we have a small group in Vermont, a a small Facebook group, and I had actually met with a Flatty before I had my surgery and it turned out that she was my neighbor's cousin, um, my neighbor's niece. And, um. And I, she was so helpful. We sat and had coffee together in Richmond and, um, she, I, she's like, ask it, ask any question, just whatever you got, throw it at me. And she was so helpful and, um, really reassuring. And I remember leaving that meeting thinking, holy cow, flat is really flat. Like her chest was so flat. it was startling to me. Um, and then, And then I was like, okay, it's okay. Like it was a little bit of a shock, right? flat, flat was. Then I met some other people from that group. We try to get together periodically, but we're dispersed throughout all of Vermont. So sometimes it's hard to for us to kind of like, logistically get together, but we've had a couple of, um, you know, get-togethers, maybe a handful of people, but I've like, craved. Wanting to be around other flatties in real life. Like I've always wanted to have that meeting a “flattie in the wild” experience. that just hasn't happened. And, um, I don't know. It was like last spring I got a from Stand Tall AFC saying, Hey, you should join us for one of our walks. And it struck a chord with me because I was like, I really do like crave this connection with other flatties. I am not a real big, like event person. So like the walk itself didn't really tick any boxes for me. I'm not like some of these big events and retreats, they don't really appeal to me. But, um, but I was really curious about this walk and, and wanting to be around other flatties. So I reached out to this Facebook group in Vermont and. Kind of said, Hey, anybody want to go to Massachusetts three hour car drive for this walk? Um, and I was expecting a no, because we've historically just had hard time gathering people together. somebody was like, yeah, I'll go. So we were off and running. And so me and another woman went down to Massachusetts and did this walk in Lowell, Massachusetts. And it was super empowering. It was. It's rainy and cold and, you know, we're walking topless for three miles throughout Lowell, Massachusetts. And, um, but, but just beyond all of that, it was just the conversations that we had together and the sort of instant connection that we had with each other that was really beautiful. Um, but it was at the end of that walk where one of them said, you know, I really wish there was a billboard right there in Lowell, Massachusetts, talking about aesthetic plaque closure for breast cancer awareness month. And I think I was just then becoming aware of the work that's needed be done around AFC, around it being offered consistently about it being done well for people. and so that really struck a chord with me when she said that and I thought, well, you know. I don't really have an interest in doing a billboard. We don't have billboards in Vermont. And I kind of like that. And, um, but I'm a designer. So I was like, there's lots of ways that we could create awareness first that apply closure. that's where this whole project started. K: Okay, let's get into the project. It's called Still. L: It is called still. Yeah. K: Tell me about the name. L: Yeah. So, I'll give you a little bit of history, um, and how it connects with the studio for us. So, um, we, we do in our studio, what are called “no money fund projects” where we—with other creative colleagues we work with and know and love—usually on a non client based project just for fun. No one gets paid, we get the band together, we do this great project and we create something really beautiful. so my thought was, instead of a billboard, let's do some sort of publication, let's make it a no money fund project. Let's invite my creative colleague friends to see if they would want to be part of it. And um, Yeah, and this publication can be used to create awareness of a stuffed fly closure. That was the idea. There was nothing more to it than that. It's not an especially meaty idea, but it was sticking and kind of nagging at me. And so I put the, put the idea in front of a couple of my friends and I was, again, kind of expecting a no from them. This is a little different from the normal No Money Fund project. It's, It's, you know, it's an advocacy piece. It's a heavier topic. It's personal. I just wasn't sure whether it was going to strike the right chord, but I got an immediate and resounding, let's do it from them. So the next thing was to just, to really start working in fleshing out this project and, and the name was the first part of that. had kicked around a couple other names, which I cannot even remember anymore what they were, but this one just kind of stuck with me. Okay. And, um, it became a working title initially, and then I was like, this, this is it, this is it, because it, that's what this is all about, is showing our truth of how we are still, and, um, in hindsight, five months after the fact, six months after the fact, um, the right name because I cannot tell you how it's resonating with people, both within the breast cancer community and beyond, um, people get, get the idea, get the message. K: I love that it's, like when I first saw the word still, I was thinking still photography and then, you know, of course, then you realize as your kind of messaging gets out that you're talking about a different meaning of the word still. It's actually the meaning of remaining, remaining, um, certain things that a woman thinks she might lose when she goes flat. L: Yeah, yeah, That's exactly it that we are still ourselves and that's exactly what society and the medical community has told us we won't be right. or that's been the case for for many people. But, yeah, so just stuck and that was that was that so 1 of the 1st things we did, or the 1 of the 1st things that I did to sort of move this project along was to put together a style guide for the photo shoot. to develop the branding for the project and. You know, this is in my wheelhouse, what I do, and I was kicking around different, different ideas and trying out different directions and everything, and the logo that, that is today, um, just was, again, I, I've had this experience with this project where things are just sticking or pestering or poking at me, or just like raising their hand and saying, it's me, it's me, and the logo kind of did the same thing, like that logo, you know. I don't know. It just, it was the right logo for the project. K: So tell me how you gathered women the first time you did a photo shoot. I don't know how many photo shoots you've done? L: We've only done one and it was, um, it was a little hair raising for me. I'm not a big social media person, but, um, I was working with Christy Raymond at Humankind Casting. And she's STILL’s executive producer and she's got a lot of casting experience. And I was kind of thinking she would just kind of take the reins and go with it. But, um, I had this connection to the community and she's like, you know, really, we should be doing this through your social media. So I was like, okay, here we go. And I was looking for six to twelve flatties for the project. Six was my minimum for getting it off the ground. Eight to twelve was kind of the sweet spot where I felt I could get the diversity that I was looking for. when I thought about this publication. In the hands of a person who's making reconstruction deci decisions in that exam room with their, with their surgeon or physician, want them to see something that they can identify with. So I wanna show women of all ages, sizes, and colors. So as they're flipping through this, they're not seeing what anesthetic closure looks like, but what it looks like on a lot of different people. And, um, so that again, they can identify it with it. And when I think about like the hope that this project can provide. It lies there because when you, you know, when you're going through something difficult like that and you're on, uh, you're feeling pressured to make decisions, there might be a timeline that's factoring into it, it's big and scary, um, finding that one thread of hope that you can grasp onto can mean the world, right? So eight to 12 was kind of where we were going. And again, we just did the casting through Instagram and Facebook. We ended up getting, I'll add that it was, um, we were shooting in Worcester, Massachusetts. We had this gorgeous studio that gave their space to us for the shoot. And so I was expecting a local response because again, it's a no money fund project, so people would have to be able to get to the studio and to the shoot on their own means. And, um, So I was expecting local and I'm like, I don't know how many flatties there are near Worcester, Massachusetts. Like, what's this gonna, how's this gonna work? We got an international response. We K: Oh my goodness. L: All over the country, all corners of the country, and as far away as Europe that submitted casting submissions for this project. K: Wow. I recognized Farhana from Texas and I saw Linda from Massachusetts, so I didn't know how far it went, but that's crazy. L: It is crazy. We have, um, we have someone from San Francisco. We have two from Texas. We have Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, uh, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Vermont. Yeah. K: Was it a one day shoot then, or? L: A one day shoot and shooting 12 people in one day is a big, a big task, getting them through wardrobe and hair and makeup, having their photo sessions. And then the other piece of that day was that we actually interviewed them. So, um, they were interviewed after their photo sessions and those interviews became the foundation for the text for the book. K: Mm hmm. Is it a text heavy book? L: It is not. So, um, a photo heavy book. The, so the photos are. I can't wait for photo for people to see these photos. photographer is an internationally published fashion photographer, and his eye, his vision is just incredible. We're, I was just so thrilled that he said yes to doing this project. And so when we were casting, we had asked people, what, what are your top three still phrases? How, what are your top How are you still yourself? And so everybody has their still phrase. And then what we did was we had them work with our wardrobe stylist who put together looks that exemplified those phrases. then when they got on set, we actually had a huge piece of Plexi with the still logo printed on it. And then we had people actually paint their words on the Plexi, um, to complete their still phrases. And then, uh, so we had, know, we had these people who, who had their, um, The sprays that really resonated with them, right? They're painting it. They're wearing a look that complements that and then we're taking pictures that just really pull all of that out. So when you, for example, um, we have a flatty Emily from San Francisco who is still fierce and if you can just take a glance at that photo and get fierce from it, like those messages just come through so beautifully in the photos. So the text is, really You know, you marry a compelling story with a compelling photo, and then you've got a sort of a powerhouse of a, of a communication happening, right? Um, and these stories, so we ended up doing two, two publications. Um, it, when we saw the stories and the photos, we realized this needed to be more than just this little booklet that I was envisioning. we did, we designed a 132 page art book, basically. Um, called the still anthology that shares more of their story and in their own voices. So it's not heavily edited. It's very much their own voice, um, and it shares the good bad and the beautiful and they're very real. and then in the compendium, which is the smaller booklet, that's a 36 page booklet. That's the book that's for healthcare providers. that book is, um, even lighter text. So we've, um, really focused that text to be about like what influenced people's decisions to go flat, what... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/34258440

Just Checking in with a Resource 11/24/2024

Reflecting on Metastatic Lobular Breast Cancer 11/10/2024

Thriving with Metastatic Lobular Breast Cancer: Leslie Pifer-Pien 11/03/2024

Thriving with Metastatic Lobular Breast Cancer: Leslie Pifer-Pien My friend and fellow lobular breast cancer awareness advocate, Leslie Pifer-Pien joined me on the podcast this week to talk about her first seven years as a metastatic invasive lobular breast cancer patient. Leslie was diagnosed de-novo, which means, she didn't start with the mild kind of cancer but went straight to stage four, or "metastatic" cancer. She's taken it in stride, but finding the right oncologist isn't easy with Lobular Carcinoma. Lisen in as we chat about all that she's learned. Transcript: K: My guest today is my friend and local advocate, Leslie Pifer-Pien, who lives in Camas, Washington. She was diagnosed in May of 2017 with de novo metastatic breast cancer—lobular breast cancer. And she has a history of working as an electrical engineer as well as a college professor here in the Portland area with exchange students. Leslie and I just met about a year ago, and we worked together on the local advocacy teams with the Lobular Breast Cancer Alliance as local advocates, meant to be working in person together. But most of our contacts have been online still, but we did meet on national or global Lobular Awareness Day a couple of weeks ago for the first time in person. And that's when Leslie agreed to come on the podcast. Leslie is my first guest who is a metastatic breast cancer patient. I've been trying so hard to get my various friends who are metastatic to come on and they have all tried, but things have come up and gotten in the way. And I'm sure I'll have many more guests who are metastatic, but it's really important to me to feature the stories of patients who are metastatic because we just don't hear their stories often enough in the breast cancer community and I just feel that they are so, so very important. So thank you, Leslie. It is a vulnerable act to come on and speak about this journey. And I know you have a very unique one to share about. So thank you so much for being here. It means a lot to me. L: You're welcome. Thank you as well. K: Well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your experience of discovering, without the medical professionals discovering, that you had breast cancer. And I know this was, not a typical way of discovering and I know that you're a spiritual person and I love to talk about spirituality on the podcast. So I'd love for you to tell the wild and crazy story of how you came to suspect that you had breast cancer. L: Wow. Thank you. Because it's still a surprising story to me now, seven plus years later! I had gone for a mammogram like everyone else and I was called back, which wasn't surprising. I knew I had dense breasts. My sisters get called back. So they did a call back and they said, Oh, it's perfect. Everything's fine. And I got my piece of paper saying normal mammogram results. But then I had this experience that I, I don't know quite how to explain. Every day I'd go in the shower and this voice would come to me and say, “you have breast cancer… but on the right hand side” and it would, I would listen to it for the 15 minutes I was in the shower. I’d forget about it. And the next day would happen again. And then all of a sudden, five, six, seven days, I'm like, my goodness, the same thing is happening over and over again. I think you might need to listen! And having a scientific background, like you said, I had been an engineer originally. I was looking for others to validate it. So I showed anyone who was willing to look at my breast. “Do you see anything? Is there any reason I should have breast cancer?” And everyone would look, I seemed like I, I was kind of crazy, like, no, there's nothing wrong. But I couldn't get the thought out of my head. It was so strong, the feeling, that I finally went to emergency, urgent care. And I don't know why I chose urgent care. I was just like, here I come. I got my courage up and I said, I have a normal mammogram. They called me back on my left hand side, but I think I have it on the right hand side. And the woman listened, the doctor listened and called me in for some extra testing, in which they did an ultrasound, they finally looked like they could see some cancer, but it was early stage, they said. So I left all happy, well, not happy, maybe relieved, right? Okay, thank goodness it's not metastatic. And then when I went to see a surgeon for my mastectomy, he said, “Oh, you're kind of swollen. Your lymph nodes don't seem good.” And then they did a breast MRI and some bone biopsies and found out I indeed was metastatic. K: So why did they do the bone biopsies? Were you having pain already in your bones? L: I was... so when they did the ultrasound, the funny thing is I'm like, “Oh, please brace my body.” I did have back pain. It had been the first time in my life ever. So I don't really know what that experience is like, but I wanted them to bolster my body. But you ask why did they do a bone biopsy--it’s because sometimes you have a different type of cancer in your body and they wanted to validate that. Yes, I have breast cancer and it’s what is in my bones. Because they saw it. K: Oh, okay. It lit up on the MRI. L: Well, my chest lit up, so they knew it was other places, like in the ribs…. Oh, and then they did a PET scan, and they saw it was through the rest of the spinal system, but they needed to validate what they see on the PET scan and the MRI was indeed breast cancer, and so they strongly suspected it had traveled already when they did that bone biopsy. K: Okay. And then your, your journey took you to a few different oncologists just based on the fact that you had lobular—you were doing a lot of your own research and you were looking for a better and a better second and third opinion and eventually you found it. What was that like when you found your, your better oncologist that gave you the treatment that you're now working with? L: Do you know there was such a sense of stress that I could feel in my body that I was constantly trying to put myself in some ways in medical school. I was trying to do online research and try to understand because I was aware that these well educated doctors, well meaning oncologists, didn't have the information they needed and I was concerned that I was not being cradled as much as I needed to be. I think they were doing everything they could and I think they were wonderful people. So I don't mean that as an insult against them, but they just don't know enough about lobular. And, the second oncologist, I mentioned to her, maybe I want to see this doctor up in Seattle who's a specialist. And she actually was wise enough to realize she didn't know enough. And she contacted the specialist up in Seattle and talked to her. And they talked about my case, and I went up to see her too. And the sense of needing to research every morning, these two hours of, “what do I need to know about breast cancer?” Poof. That that stress is gone. It feels really good to be in the hands of someone who knows. And also, there's a lot less fear because I had developed what is called the ESR1 mutation which tends to sound super scary and people say you have to be on this one drug and only this one drug, but you can't take another, it can't work in conjunction with another drug and it's overall survival is relatively small…. So I'm like, it doesn't sound so good. And this doctor that I'm seeing in Seattle had so much knowledge. She's like, “do you know what? I think we have other drug choices that will work for you. And I've seen this enough that even this ESR one mutation may revert back. Let's not get crazy about this.” And so there was a sense that she had from treating patients, from working in research that really, allowed me to feel a lot more peaceful. K: How many years? Through your experience, did it take to find this, this new oncologist that you're working with now? L: So I had spied her through some online conferences and I realized, Oh, that's a doable distance because Seattle from where we are here is maybe three and a half hours. I mean, not ideal, but it was, it was doable. It wasn't like getting in on an airplane and having to get there. But it wasn't until I had an oncologist who admitted she didn't know enough to really help me that I started the search. But getting in with this doctor was a long waiting process. Well, five, six months. K: Oh, wow. Okay. L: You know how every month you feel so vulnerable. You're like, Oh, what if I don't get my treatment. But I think also this doctor realizes lobular tends to move very slowly. And she had looked over my paperwork enough and seen it. And also I think she's that kind of a busy woman that I was really thankful to be able to get into with her on any basis. K: And now you see her or her assistant monthly every other time, right? L: I see, um, every, I can see them as often as I need is the truthful answer, but we've chosen every two months cycle. So two months for the physician assistant, then the next two months with her, et cetera. K: Okay, so you've got a lot of access to her. How many years between your first oncologist and this oncologist that you've settled on? L: My first oncologist which in itself was a gift—my brothers were both, my brother in laws were both in the medical field and they realized I was over my head. And they both, one works with medical equipment, in particular PET scans, and he knew where to put out his feelers. And the other one was very knowledgeable as well. I think they knew I was faltering. And they found my very first oncologist for me. They had contacted all their friends so my first oncologist was a fantastic match, really knowledgeable. But when he left to practice in another country, I needed to find another. And that lasted, that relationship was oh, I guess five years. It was a beautiful five years. And then my next oncologist was very new and loving and willing to admit when she didn't know enough, I needed more. And that lasted maybe eight months. K: So you don't, it doesn't sound like you regret the first line of treatment that you underwent? L: No. I was actually on a study drug then that is now very typical for women with metastatic lobular breast cancer K: Which one? Was it a CDK4 6 inhibitor? L: Yeah, I had Ribocyclib... or quisquali—it’s called either name. And then my hormone blocker was an aromatase inhibitor called Letrozole. K: So it was the CDK4/6 that they were testing at that time because Letrozole was already on the market probably. L: Yes, exactly, it was like, it was, I think it was the Mona Lisa study. K: Yeah. Were you super excited to get into that study? L: I was super excited. But the realization of, gosh, this is such a fragile ground we're working on. Cause I remember there was a bunch of women in the study and suddenly there was just me. You only stayed on till progression. It made me realize how incredibly lucky I've been and how very indolent, personally, my cancer is. Mine is so slow growing. Certainly intelligent, but not as intelligent as others. So in other words, it doesn't mutate. K: Were the others on, did the others have lobular breast cancer as well or did they have ductal also? L: By in large it was ductal. I was never let know how many people had lobular, and other people stopped it because people have problems with joint pain. There's a lot of joint pain issues, but, um, fortunately, that wasn't really a big problem for me. K: And you mentioned “until progression.” So have you had an incidence of significant progression in your story? L: Yeah, so, the thing about scans is they do a pretty good job, with glucose avid cancers in your bones. Um, but not all lobular is very glucose avid. So what you see on PET scans are the really hungry cancer cells who are consuming lots of sugar, but the ones that are a little bit more laid back and not eating sugar, they don't show up on the PET scans. so what ended up happening is I was getting back PET scans that said basically stable, but all I could tell you is I couldn't bend through my pelvis. And I think I felt like my breast was feeling different. It's, you know, it isn't something I can really tell you it was this problem and that problem. It was again, this, This internal feeling and um, she released me one from one appointment thinking I know big deal in the second appointment like nope It's just not right and I spoke up again at which point she did some blood work and they saw They did sorry a breast biopsy where they found the ESR1 mutation. K: And that was an incidence of progression then. L: Yes, I, when I then transferred care up to Seattle, I was given an FES scan and they did see that there was a lot more cancer in my pelvis beyond the glucose avid. K: Right. The regular PET scan. L: And I kept having this feeling like “I'm the Tin Man. Why can't I bend?” It was, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't quite painful at that point. But yeah, I felt like I was a Tin Man and always having exercised and move my body. I just, it wasn't right and I knew it. K: So it sounds like you didn't have an FES PET scan until you went up to Seattle just a couple of years ago. Okay. Okay. Now I want you to tell the story of what happened when you went up to Seattle because it sounds like you got a very new insight on your disease and understood what you needed a little bit differently. L: Oh my goodness. Yeah—between oncologist number two, the lovely woman who said “this is more than I know about.” She had a replacement show up. So I saw the replacement oncologist locally one time before going up to Seattle. that doctor said, emphatically, you must be on this med. And then we said, well, what if we don't just, oh, you're going to die. So I was really, um, rather convinced that I only had one choice. And when I went up to Seattle, she, uh, my oncologist there is such a calm human being she's like, no, I think we got a bunch of different choices here. Um, so she had me do some genetic testing and which I found out I carry a BRCA II mutation mosaic. Not germline, so I didn't inherit it, and it's not because it developed through cancer. It's something that developed when the zygote, when I was forming in my mommy. So it's a weird mutation which opened a whole—since she did the testing—that opens up a whole bunch of different drugs I can take in the future, some PARP inhibitors. Um, but really what she gave me After she did the FES scan, she goes, you know what, I think you're doing really well, you are I think I can, I think I can give you quite a few more years, but we never know, and I don't think you need to, you know, the, the development of this ESR1 mutation was like, um, was so horrifying and shocking. I thought it was an end point, but it really wasn't. And she was very calm about it. So I really, really appreciate that woman. I actually call her La Papess, Popess. Yes. K: All right. So did you change your line of treatment when you went up to see Dr. Linden? Okay, L: Yeah, so Dr. Linden said, um, good news. We're going to still keep you on a CDK4 inhibitor, a different one, which made me very happy. And we chose to do Fulvestrin, which is the butt injections, which aren't, in fairness, they aren't the most enjoyable thing. And the monthly, You know, you have to go and get them monthly. So unlike the pills, the pills I could do three months without seeing an oncologist, three to four months, which I really appreciated that. So yes, I'm up there every month, but they're working well for me. And I think as cancer goes on, I just become appreciative. I think I controlled life more. “Why can't I get these drugs for six months?” I don't want to look at anyone for six months. And then you go, okay, you go once a month. And now I make it kind of a fun date. Sometimes I go by myself, sometimes I go with my husband, but I take nice walks and I enjoy Seattle. I pretend I'm traveling. So yes. K: And did you stop taking the CDK4 6 inhibitor or the letrosol in the meantime? L: So before she put me on a Palbocyclib, which is another CDK 4/6 Inhibitor, and Fulvestrant, yeah, she did stop for a period of time. And she said to me, “Breathe, relax, you'll be fine. It's a slow enough growing cancer. Nothing disastrous is going to happen in these few months, you'll be just fine.” K: Okay. And did your bending at the waist issue go away then after? . L: Well, I have new issues. Um, which may be collateral damage due to cancer treatment. But also I have, I have these cysts, these tarlov cysts that are pushing on my sacral nerves. So I have inflammation going on in my S1, S2 nerves. So movement through the pelvis is generally hard, but I do believe it is not related to cancer. K: What is your daily energy level with the drugs that you're taking now? L: Do you know, I don't feel that I'm really fatigued from cancer. What I do feel is because I guess to be more exact about how I feel, I feel like I have this perpetual sciatica feeling. So standing and walking are not pleasant. So if I sit all day long, I'm very happy. If I do a lot of bodily, you know, weight bearing exercise, I don't, body aches and says, please don't do this to me. Um, so sometimes I'll take something for the nerve pain in those cases, but I'm also learning like different ways of getting my exercise in. So instead of doing a standard upright class. I can tell you chair aerobics can get your heart rate up. K: Good for you. L: Well, right. Or incumbant bicycle. My pelvis is like that. I don't put any weight in my legs and I can get my heart rate up. So it's a learning process on my end, but I wouldn't probably go to a Zumba class for sure. No. K: Yeah. I'm so glad that you're able to describe what it's like, um, because I encounter you to be an uninhibited. Co advocate. Like when I met you in person, I didn't notice that you were terribly uncomfortable. You were able to be very energetic and animated. And it's just, it's interesting to me to think about, um, the way I used to see metastatic patients and the way I see metastatic patients now, there's very little difference in terms of your presentation and your ability to get out in the world, drive around, do things. You're very functional, and I think that's partly because, like you said, you had a very slow growing and probably somewhat indolent cancer, like sometimes it probably has completely stopped growing. Do you feel like that's the case? L: Yes, yeah, yeah. I had a few years of scans where there was nothing going on. Exactly. K: Okay. And how anxious do you get when you get up to those scans nowadays, after all these years of living with the on again off again, do you ever have intense anxiety or is it a much easier journey? L: Do you know, I don't know that the PET scans caused me any anxiety. There's a sense of You're just gonna deal with whatever comes up You're gonna process and go through so I don't think that causes me anxiety. I think sometimes Um, I don't keep my balance well, and I let myself get, get swayed by other people. I, I'm more anxious when I don't have my center. know, you'll have other people say, Oh, they can't see this. They can't see this. I'm going to do this kind of biopsy, that kind of biopsy, and those kinds of things are very stressful for me. I think for another person, that knowledge may be beautiful, but this whole idea of what they don't see, and what's it doing to me, is something that I, as long as I say. Let's separate those two things. Living with uncertainty is just something you learn how to do, and you need to learn how to do better every year. I have to just say, yeah, it's uncertain. Yes, that's true. K: And when I met you close to a year ago, was that your first step into the advocacy space? L: Yes. I think I just had a really hard time with that one. Healing myself enough before I felt like I could take on others. I, you know, I don't... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/33692842

Reflecting on Pinktober 2024 10/27/2024

Reflecting on Pinktober 2024 Today I'm just reflecting on how Breast Cancer Awareness month has gone for me personally this year. I hope it's been a good one for you! Email me a screenshot of your rating or review of my podcast to be entered in a fun giveaway! is the place to send it! Listen and Subscribe on: - - Or watch on YouTube: Support my work by making a donation here: Transcript: Today's the last episode in breast cancer awareness month, 2024. And so I just wanted to do a special episode reflecting on my personal experience this year in October, Pinktober. I don't feel like I need to recap on my interview with Marina Blackford, which was my last interview. She is such a master educator that she defined all of the terms well, and I don't feel like there's much to say to clarify. except to remind you that she is going to be in the New York city marathon on November 3rd. so just about a week from when this airs and she will be on Instagram at her name, Marina Blackford, all one word, um, posting photos of that. So if you want to support her, cheer her on, follow her and see her photos, be sure and look for her at Instagram. But, uh, this being the last week of October, I am pretty wiped out. I don't know if you're watching this on YouTube right now, but if you are, you could see that I'm pretty tired. And today I leave for a four day, three night reunion retreat with some of my closest girlfriends, celebrating 20 years of friendship. And so that seems like a really good way to cap off this October, uh, out at the beach. Just, you know, Laying around at the stormy rainy Oregon coast so we're going to be out at cascade head this weekend when this podcast goes live and That's a really really fitting way for me to end because I have had such a busy and eventful and Really prosperous month this month, just like last year. So the main thing when I reflect over my month is that I've I've been thinking about how important it is every year to meet new breast cancer patients and new survivors and people who will become leaders in our community. I will also meet people who will not become leaders or who aren't even interested in sticking around in the breast cancer community. But, This month I met quite a few that I think will be sticking around and who will become very influential leaders people who are willing to speak out and change our norms and challenge our systems. And so that's the most hopeful and encouraging thing that's come out of this breast cancer awareness month for me. While I was down in San Francisco during my half marathon, I met a doctor who was a flattie and a lobular survivor. So she had my two things. That I'm really passionate about advocating for in common and she's a doctor and she's connected in her community of physicians. And so that was the most hopeful thing just to hear how passionate she is and how determined she is to be vocal about her experience and to help change the way that we deal with especially lobular breast cancer being underfunded, under researched. The second thing that I'm most excited about this month is that I started a pilot project here locally for my local breast cancer survivors community. Uh, it's not just for flatties, it's not just for lobular survivors, it's for breast cancer survivors in general. And it has to do with my passion for health and being a health educator myself. I became a nutritionist about eight years ago. Just a couple of years after I was first suspected to have very early breast cancer and started getting extensive screening for breast cancer. And I thought nutrition was the way to address it. I thought that studying nutrition was the answer as many women do. And now, after, about 10 years of studying nutrition, both formally and informally, I've also been studying all the other lifestyle factors, and I've determined that while nutrition is not something we can prove moves the needle, I do feel like it kept my cancer small. It is not something we can conclusively say or that I can conclusively say to any of my patients is going to solve their breast cancer problem or keep their breast cancer from coming back. What I can say that science is telling us very clearly is that exercise can keep cancer from coming back. Not always, but it's a really good bet. And so what I've decided to do as a nutritionist, as a way to kind of quell my feelings of conflict over the overemphasis on nutrition in our community is to come out as a nutritionist in favor of exercise as someone who has never been an athlete, who has never been motivated to exercise and still am not on most days. I would like to have a system in place locally where I can be held accountable to my goals to walking three days a week for an hour at a time, which is what science is telling us right now is the best thing to keep recurrence at bay and to fight off. The environment of inflammation that happens so often in our lives for various reasons. And so I decided to start a pilot project here in Oregon, and I intentionally didn't go out to those groups that I'm already connected to, but really was seeking out strangers in our community so that I can get really unbiased feedback and input. To develop this program and make it bigger and make it reproducible for other communities. So I'm calling it walk away from breast cancer. It's just a way to keep walking. It's a weekly check in on zoom and then getting together in person about quarterly to do a relay race in person as a team walking, not running. And it's really pointed at people who are not athletes who are not motivated to get to the gym or exercise regularly. So it's really meant to be an accountability tool and the relays are just a way to have an end goal in sight that's common and shared and a way to celebrate together. So like I said, it's a pilot project. It's really small right now and intentionally so. And I'm hoping that by next breast cancer awareness month, this will be my main focus is spreading the word about this and maybe even reproducing it across other states or countries. So stay tuned for news about that. I won't be talking about that a whole lot this year because it's going to be pretty small. Um, but I might talk about it. I might check in and give you an update now and then on the podcast. The other thing I realized toward the end of this breast cancer month was that my, flat community, That has been a really huge part of forming my new identity as a breast cancer survivor. Here in Oregon has grown a lot. We get new Flatties joining, Oregon Flatties on Facebook every month and people are really interested in connecting. It's a very close and very safe community. And what I've discovered is I've been one of the main people welcoming new folks, and there's been enough growth in my area that I feel like I'm ready to launch a little off sprout, little subgroup of flatties here, uh, in the rural part of the Willamette Valley that is west of I-5. So I think we've pretty much decided to call ourselves, Willamette Valley. West Valley flatties, an offshoot of Oregon flatties, and we don't have a Facebook group yet or anything like that, but I think we're going to be getting together for happy hour, like, once a month and just getting to know each other. There's quite a few new flatties in our area, so that's really exciting. Something to go forward into the new year with also that's face to face and not online, which is more valuable to me for sure. And I think to most people. So that's exciting. I might be sharing, if you follow me on Instagram or Facebook, I might be sharing our new logo there. I have two new logos in my life. I've been working on the one for Walk Away from Breast Cancer, and now today I've been working on the one for West Valley Flatties as well. And, um, getting some taglines and stuff like that in place is always fun. It's part of the really fun part of being an entrepreneur and a creator is making those things that are going to be educating the public about what we're doing and why we're here. The really sad, challenging part of this breast cancer month for me has been losing another friend to metastatic cancer. In this case, she didn't. die to metastatic breast cancer. Actually, she was a a pre vivor in the breast cancer community. I met her down in San Francisco last October for flat day. We walked across the Golden Gate Bridge together and hung out, in different settings there and just really connected with her. She was just a very innocent light. Um, joyful soul. Her name was Susanna and I had planned to meet up with her this last week when I was in San Francisco last weekend and I was going to be doing a half marathon there and I'd been in touch with her by text and told her that I tried to check in with her when I flew in on Friday. And just before I flew in, I texted her and I didn't hear back from her and I knew that she was really sick and in the hospital and that. She had had an occurrence of cancer, metastatic cancer. And, um, so I knew when she didn't text me back. She's an excellent communicator. And I knew that she probably had passed. But I went ahead and finished my trip to San Francisco before I chose to look on Facebook and see if her feed said anything. I didn't, I don't have Facebook on my phone, so I couldn't have checked down in San Francisco anyway. But I did as soon as I got back checked in with a friend. It was on Facebook to ask her if she'd seen anything and she looked on her Facebook page right away and, and she had passed. So this is friend or family member, number four, since last August that I've lost to metastatic cancer and That is just a reality of being and staying in this community long term. You're going to lose friends and fellow advocates along the way. And that's really hard. Sometimes it's triggering. It's been triggering, also to hear my, my other friend who has just been diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer, who is still living, but hearing her tell her story, at our local Portland walk. The other day was really hard to cause it reminds me of my mom and her story. Um, so yeah, it's just, that's just a hard part. And it was especially hard to lose someone during breast cancer month this year. Um, and just apprehend that there will be further losses in the next year as well. So something to counterbalance that, uh, really joyful piece of news this month personally was that my stepson Mason got engaged. He has, Been talking to his girlfriend for a while about marriage, and we knew it was somewhere on the horizon, but we didn't know if he would be able to do it anytime soon. And so really proud of him that he made that step, and that this next year is going to be one of a lot of joy and celebration as a result. And I'm very, very excited about his girlfriend being a long term member of our extended family. So, that's just something that is. brought me up and buoyed me during the really challenging moments of the last month. Another couple of things that have brought me up are my Achievements. I did a 10 K successfully in Vancouver, Washington, a couple of weekends ago with my friend Debby, who is also my walking partner and will probably be a leader in Walk Away from Breast Cancer with me. And then I met one of my closest, longest friends down in San Francisco and did a half marathon. That was really challenging. Um, It's funny how much more challenging just doubling your distance can be. And probably I hadn't trained as intensively as I should have, but a half marathons just over 13 miles. And it was the most beautiful 13 miles I could have picked because we started from the ferry building in San Francisco and walked all the way across the golden gate bridge. And then most of the way back, almost all the way back to the ferry building, which was a half marathon. And we did that with the Pinkathon. Fundraiser down in San Francisco for Breast Cancer Research Foundation, and my friend was six months pregnant So that was quite a feat for her as well. I'm not sure that I'll ever Attempt a half marathon again except for in relay form because I just don't know that it is good for my body to walk that much at one time without resting. And in that setting, it's really hard to give yourself a rest because you're wanting to finish and those around you are wanting to finish. And so I'm glad I did it once. I don't know that I will aspire to do it again. I hope that I do many 10 Ks again because I feel like that is a healthy amount of walking to do without a significant break, at least for my body and my age. But I'm glad that I tried it and that I did it, and I'm hoping to take a team next year to do that same walk or race in relay form so that we can still experience the beauty of that course. They don't even have to rope off any streets at all. It's very easy to do that walk. And so hopefully we'll do it again with Pinkathon next year if the dates line up and work for us as a team. But that was a major accomplishment for me as a non athlete, as someone who does not tend to get energy from exercise. I have chronic fatigue syndrome and I, I generally get more tired after exercise. So I had to really be careful and train carefully for this and work up my stamina and work up my ability, to withstand that kind of distance and that kind of, Lack of rest in the midst of, of exercise like that. So really proud of myself. I didn't get a medal for that one, but I did get a medal for the 10 K and I, I definitely treasure the medal that I got for the 10 K up in Vancouver. Uh, that one's called the girlfriend's run. And I really want to do that one again too, as a walk. Um, cause that was really fun and beautiful as well. The other thing that happened for the first time this October was we celebrated the first ever Lobular Breast Cancer Awareness Day. Hopefully it will be recognized globally across many countries and states next year, but this year we kind of did it on the run and I think it was maybe five or six states that proclaimed it an official day and Oregon wasn't one of them, but that didn't matter. We got together. outside of my oncology clinic in Northeast Portland with my oncologist, Dr. Stanton, and two other advocates in the lobular community, one who's been around for a while and one that's brand new. Joined me and we all talked together. The four of us, we tried to pass out literature, but we didn't get very much done in that department, but hopefully next year we'll get inside the cancer center and we'll have access to actual cancer patients, which would be a big change so that was a really fun day and I'm sure we'll do different things, different years. There were lots of webinars, some of which got recorded. So keep an eye on the LBCA's website. Lobularbreastcancer. org to find the recordings there if you're curious. And of course, my involvement with Stand Tall AFC was significant again this year. I was in charge of tabling and I got to help advocates across the country apply for tables at big walks and small walks. And then when they got granted tables, I taught them and mentored them through the process of talking to breast cancer survivors and patients about Going flat after mastectomy, the importance of the phrase aesthetic flat closure when talking to your surgeon and that ensuring that you don't get left with lots of extra skin just because you don't get an implant doesn't mean your surgeon won't leave you with lots of extra skin hanging out. And that's why the term aesthetic flat closure exists. And so we're doing a lot more advocacy and having a lot more conversations with patients for the first time because of this new tabling. Initiative that we have, and I'm hoping that I can stick it out and do this again next year, at least here in the Northwest. Maybe I'll cut back my role and not be quite as national in my focus, but hopefully I'll continue to do tabling myself and maybe mentor others to do it in the Northwest here. And my role in the Lobular Breast Cancer Alliance setting is still firmly in place as well. We hope to plant two more local advocacy groups across the country. Right now we have one in South Carolina and one in the D. C. area. I expect there will be one in Michigan before too long and hopefully one here in the Northwest, but, um, I'm having lots of fun in that role as well and hope to continue there until next breast cancer awareness month. So lots of work to do, but lots of work got done this, this month and I am thoroughly exhausted from it. But in a good way, and, I know that my mom is looking down on me and feeling proud of all the work that I'm doing. And hopefully Susanna is there with her and cheering me on as well. And, I have a little incentive for those of you who are fans of the podcast. I've been collecting some gifts to give out. And, uh, because I have had very few ratings and reviews on the podcast players, I'm hoping that this month I can ask you to rate and review the podcast. If you're a fan, it is definitely binge worthy now. I think I have 17 or 18 episodes. And so if you've been able to hear more than a couple of them and you're a fan, Please go to your podcast player, whether it's Apple or Spotify or some other podcast player, and leave me a rating and review there. And if you do so, you can screenshot that rating and review and email it to me at kathleenmoss@protonmail com. And tell me if you'd like to be on my email list while you're at it. But if you email me a screenshot, I will enter you into a drawing for some really cool and beautiful things. Um, I'm, I've got some bras, I've got some shawls and towels that are really beautifully woven. And then I've got some breast cancer magazines from Wildfire. Breast cancer magazine and a book of poetry that's been donated. So I will ask you if you win, if you're drawn, and I'll have about 20 people that'll be drawn. I'll ask you if you would prefer something to read or something to wear. And based on that, I will send you a little gift in the mail. If you're willing to send your address to me, which I will not use for other purposes or share with other organizations. And this is just kind of a thank you for being a part of this community for supporting me. And also a way for me to get some ratings and reviews and get some feedback from the folks that listen to me most. So thanks in advance for doing that. Again, my email address is Kathleen Moss at protonmail. com. And you can send me that screenshot right away. I'll talk to you next week on Sunday. Bye bye. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/33618517

Marinia Blackford: Mom and Cancer Coach 10/16/2024

Reflecting on Keytruda: Risks and Benefits 10/09/2024

When Triple Negative Feels Toxic 10/02/2024

When Triple Negative Feels Toxic In earlier episodes with stories like Marquita's we've seen ways that Triple Negative Breast Cancer can be "not so bad" but in younger patients it's often the reverse. Meryl Opsal is my guest today, and she's got a harder story to tell about the effects of her immunotherapy. Meryl is a powerful woman, and if there ever was a cancer fighter she is my image of one. She and her family have been through so much, and they are still going through it, but they are managing well together. Stay tuned for a follow up episode in which we will talk more about the new immunotherapy drug called Keytruda that's showing a lot of promise for triple negative patients. Watch on YouTube: Support my work by making a donation here: Links from today's episode: Meryl's Instagram Accounts: @merymeryl; @thestoryofcaptaincharlotte; and @rompandrollick Meryl's business email address for parent coaching: Meryl's website: Transcript: Kathleen: Today's guest is Meryl Opsal. She's a mom of four and eight year old kids, an education consultant in early childhood education and a podcaster that I listen to every week as a bedtime story. Her podcast is a delightful children's adventure story that just started around the same time that my podcast started called The Story of Captain Charlotte, and I highly recommend it, whether you're an adult or a kid! Her story grabbed me on Instagram recently, and she's my first guest that is really. pretty much a stranger to me. I haven't gotten to know her very much. I trust her because she is an amazing storyteller and a very vulnerable person with regard to her cancer journey. And she has an important story to tell. I asked her on to talk about her experience as a triple negative survivor. She has endured triple negative breast cancer, ductal breast cancer and was diagnosed with stage 3C, which means that she had extensive lymph node involvement and she's been through the ringer with her treatment. And that's the main story that she has to share today. So Meryl, welcome. I wanted to ask you about your experience with the drug Keytruda, which is a new immunotherapy drug that has really been full of promise and hope for oncologists across the world. You have a little bit different story to tell about it and I wanted to allow you to do that here. So please tell us a little bit about your diagnosis and your treatment and, and how that went for you. Meryl: Okay. I can definitely do that. And first I just want to say thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm on a mission of education, advocacy, and demystification of breast cancer. And so I just really appreciate the platform to spread the word a little bit more. So really my diagnosis starts with my sister's diagnosis because my sister was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer in February of 2023, which was a huge shock to my family because we really had no history that we knew of, of any kind of breast or gynecological cancers. And I went to visit her and help support her through some of her treatment. She's on the East Coast. She said, Meryl, you really have to get a mammogram. And I said, “don't worry. I just turned 40. I am going to see my doctor next week. I'm definitely going to get a mammogram. It's happening.” I went to see my doctor and she did a full exam. I even remember that while she was feeling my left axilla, she was manually, you know, feeling, making sure everything was okay, and I was talking to her and I said, my sister was just diagnosed with breast cancer. She said, “oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Definitely going to get you in for that mammogram.” I only mentioned that because she didn't feel anything and I wanted to just point that out because of how quick some cancers can progress. Some breast cancers, some breast cancers can be very slow and you have time and mine was not like that. Mine was not like that at all. It was like a bomb went off in my body because I had this mammogram and the mammagram was two weeks later, and there was already cancer in my left axilla, as well as in my breast, and I got a letter a couple days after my mammogram saying that I had dense breasts. Now, I know that there's a new law that's around the whole country that you'll be notified if you have dead breasts. In California, that law already existed at the time, and it said, “please call us for a follow up ultrasound.” So I called the ultrasound place, and I said, I'd like to make an appointment. I got this letter, and they said the next available appointment is six weeks from now. And I said, oh, I was really nervous because of my sister, and I said, “I know it just says dense breasts, but I really, is there anything you can do?” And the woman on the phone said, “don't worry, if it needs to be stat, your doctor has the mammogram report, she'll call us and it'll be stat if it needs to be stat” and she said, “but just make sure that your doctor sends the ultrasound order because we haven't gotten it yet.” So, I kind of forgot about it. I was very busy recording for The Story of Captain Charlotte and running my business and I kind of, you know, moved on with my life. And I mean, I did notice that my left breast was starting to get bigger than my right. I googled it, you know, it could be hormonal, whatever. I kind of wrote it off. I kept reassuring myself saying the doctor has the mammogram report—she would tell me if it needed to be stat and I just sort of wrote it off and just said it's in my head “There's no way. I also have breast cancer right now. That would be crazy.” So it comes to two days before my ultrasound I call and they say “oh no, we haven't gotten the report yet.” “Oh, that's surprising.” I called my doctor and they said, “Oh yeah, we'll send it right away.” So I go in for the ultrasound, and the most peculiar thing happened—they only took images of my armpit. It was really confusing, seeing as how I had dense breasts. And, uh, I've had two babies. I know what it looks like when they're measuring things on the ultrasound, you know, the tech can't say anything, but I'm seeing black spots, I'm seeing her measure them, so I just get this pit in my stomach. And on the way home I got a call and she said, come back, the ultra, the uh, radiologist wants images of your breast as well. And that's when I went and got my husband because I knew it was about to go down, went back, and got the ultrasound. quickly after that, got the biopsies and the staging and all of that. All of that moved quickly, but I actually really have no evidence that my doctor ever looked at the mammogram report. I don't know that she ever looked at it. It's really, really upsetting. I cannot, unfortunately, sue her for malpractice because the cancer at the point of the mammogram was already multifocal, meaning it was already stage 2, and so my treatment options wouldn't have changed. K: Wow. M: It's just this really unfortunate thing. I probably would have been staged. 2A, 2B, and instead I ended up being staged at 3C, which the law says, oh, well, your treatment options were the same, so there's no case. But just the lived experience of being staged 3C was so terrifying and so scary and I just really lost trust in medical providers at that point. And I think that's a good thing. Actually, I think people should have a very healthy skepticism that their providers are going to do anything for them that you expect them to do, even the bare minimum. And I think most people who have been through breast cancer have come to understand that—that we really need to be our own advocates. If there's a test, you need to make sure you get the results yourself. You look at the report yourself. You know, if a prescription needs to get called in. It's, you know, it might not happen. You need to follow up. You need to follow up always yourself. So that was the first time I really learned that lesson. Um, let me just have a sip of water—I need to constantly drink water in order to talk. So the gold standard of treatment for triple negative breast cancer is called Keynote 522, it includes 12, uh, 12 doses of carbotaxol and then four of adreomycin and taxotere, which is also known as the red devil. And then through all of that—that's about six months. And then continuing for six months after that, every three weeks, you're supposed to get an infusion of Keytruda, which is a very new drug. It's an immunotherapy drug. And so I started chemotherapy in July. I was able to continue running my business. I ran a very popular and successful parent and me business. So I taught classes to babies. Um, they came with their parents and toddlers came with their parents and it was my dream come true and it was beautiful and amazing and I loved every moment of it. It was very, very physical, very physically taxing. I was able to do it through the carbo taxol portion of the chemotherapy but then when it came to the red devil, the Adreomycin, I had to stop. So around November of 2023, I noticed, (I noticed!) I was getting extreme like 10 out of 10 pain in my parroted salivary glands every time I ate. And. When I say 10 out of 10, I do not say that lightly. I, I gave birth to my second child completely naturally, and this was beyond. Quite a bit beyond. The amount of pain—I was blacking out. I was going into cold sweats. It was really, really, really painful. So I brought it to my oncologist. “What's going on with my salivary glands? Every time I eat, this is so weird.” And anyone who's been through chemo knows the line. It's chemo. It's chemo. Everything is chemo. Everything is chemo. Oh, it's chemo. It's chemo. It's chemo. I've always shared my breast cancer story on my Instagram and I get a lot of really impressive helpful feedback from my followers and one of my followers has an autoimmune disorder called Sjogren's and she said it sounds like you might have Sjogren's. I had never heard of that before and so I asked my oncologist I said one of my friends said that it might be Sjogren's and she literally said to me “I don't know why we're talking about Sjogren's right now!” and we just moved on and she just swept it under the rug and then I finished my chemotherapy. December 26th was my last one and I had one infusion that was just Keytruda. And when you get just Keytruda, you don't get any of the premeds that you get with the chemotherapy including a steroid. Usually when you get chemotherapy you have a steroid as a pre-med I didn't know at the time that that steroid pre-med was protecting me from the Keytruda in a lot of ways even though it was still hurting me. When I had this one infusion, I think it was like January 16th—it’s funny how we remember all these dates because they're all so important. Honestly like getting hit by a truck. Related to Sjogren's, um, in my body just went completely off the rails. I, within a day, stopped making tears, stopped making snot, stopped making saliva. There's a mucus membrane lining up your, your Your bladder that protects you from your, the, um, the acid, the acidic nature of your urine from burning your bladder, that went away. And so, all of these things happened to me, and then a week later, I had my double mastectomy. So I was very, I did not know what was happening to my body, and then I had the surgery. I was recovering from the surgery at my parents house and my parents are both in the medical field. And so we had a lot of time to talk about what was happening to me, not just with my double mastectomy—they took great care of me for that, but also all these symptoms, like I wasn't able to eat all these foods, I couldn't breathe. You need, anyone who's taken biology knows, you need a wet mucous membrane to breathe. I was having trouble breathing. There were multiple nights where I thought, “I don't know if I'm going to wake up because I can't breathe through my nose and I cannot breathe through my mouth because my mouth is so dry” and my dad did some research and he was the one that pulled up a case report saying that there's evidence of people getting Sjogren's from a similar drug to Keytruda, another immunotherapy drug. And so, we printed out, we found more case reports, we printed it all out, and brought it to my oncologist. I brought my mom with me, and we, we brought it to my oncologist and I said, This is what's happening to me. This is what's happening. And she went, “Huh, how about that? Immunotherapy does the weirdest things.” So that was the second time I learned that you really cannot trust your providers to do even the most basic things. Even the drugs that they prescribe that they're supposed to be experts on, they may not know about. And it's not advisable to Google a lot of things around breast cancer, but there are some things where you really do have to—you have to Google, you have to be informed. And I really wish that I had when my, like in November when the symptoms first happened in my parotid salivary glands, that I had really started googling that and pushed her a little harder to send me to a rheumatologist. So luckily now I'm under the care of quite a few doctors. I have a special eye doctor, I have a few rheumatologists, and I'm on a whole bunch of drugs. But unfortunately it seems like a lot of the symptoms are permanent. So what happened to me is called an immune related adverse event and when you're talking about immune related adverse events, uh, permanent is described as symptoms that last over a year. So, my symptoms are going to be permanent in that respect, but also probably permanent in a more colloquial respect, like probably forever. It is possible that my body will heal, but it's such a new drug, and there's really no reports of this resolving. Very, very few people have gotten Sjogren's from Keytruda. I actually have never met anybody that's gotten Sjogren's from Keytruda. It's just these case reports that I've read. It's much more common for people to have issues with their thyroid, their kidney, their pituitary, um, other types of autoimmune issues. So, I really don't know what the future holds in that respect. Yeah, so that's, that's pretty much how I was diagnosed and kind of what was going on with the Keytruda. K: Did your Sjogren’s affect the way that you healed from your mastectomy? M: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, ever since the first symptoms of the Sjogren's, I have not been allowed to have just breast cancer. I have breast cancer and a serious autoimmune disorder. And especially at that time when I didn't know what was happening to me, I didn't know how to eat. I've had to completely relearn how to eat because, not like literally how to eat, but the things that I can put into my body and successfully chew and swallow. Because I have such a small amount of saliva. All my favorite foods, all the things I was used to eating, uh, my ability to casually snack, you know, all of these things completely went out the window. And after surgery, it's very important to nourish yourself with healthy foods, to eat, to make sure you're eating enough in the day, even if you're not feeling good and that was a struggle. That was a real struggle because I also wasn't able to cook for myself. I was at my parents house. We already eat very different diets because my parents eat meat. I don't eat meat. And they're kind of like, “I don't know what to do. What do we cook for you?” already and then there was this also surprise thing, which is like all these things they were trying to make for me. And then I literally couldn't eat it. It was so frustrating. And the bladder pain was really off the charts because I did not know what was going on with me at all. And it was to the point where I was having trouble walking. That's how much it hurt. And really, I should have really just been focused on the intense pain and discomfort that I was going through from my double mastectomy, which was almost a side note to this mystery thing that was happening to my body. So, yeah, I mean, absolutely. Absolutely. K: Your actual wounds, um, and incisions did heal pretty well though. They didn't have trouble healing? M: Well, I actually did have some trouble healing because the treatment for this type of immune related adverse event is prednisone which can delay wound healing. And so when I went to see my oncologist with those case reports saying this is what's going on with me and what I need is what it says in there is prednisone, so you have to write prednisone a prescription for prednisone for me. And she said, okay. My plastic surgeon found out and he said, you have to go off the prednisone immediately. And it had already at that point caused some wound healing and I needed a couple extra stitches in one spot. It, it, yeah, it caused a little bit of a delay, but everything eventually did heal up fine. K: Did you get, um, implants or did you get a flat closure after a mastectomy? M: So I currently have tissue expanders. And, um, planning on having them exchanged for implants in January. K: And how's that gone? Has your body responded okay to the expanders? M: Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. I mean, expanders are notorious for being uncomfortable, and I can confirm that that is true. They are uncomfortable. However, most of my breasts are numb. So, the discomfort is probably mitigated by that a little bit, because I can't feel a lot in that area of my body. Um, but yeah, overall it's been, it's been okay. It's been okay. I am very much looking forward to the exchange surgery though because I've heard the implants are a lot softer and they'll be more comfortable. So I'm, I'm really looking forward to that. K: And when is that? Is that pretty soon? M: That's in January. So, um, after I finished chemotherapy and my surgery, I had 29 rounds of radiation and there's some sort of complicated math problem about how quickly the radiation leaves your body and they figure out exactly when you're able to have surgery and it's usually around nine months after radiation you can have surgery. So that's why I have to wait until January for that exchange surgery. K: And how was the experience of radiation for you? M: Um, radiation was hard. Radiation is kind of, kind of a mindfuck because unlike chemotherapy where it's very concrete, there's a medicine, you're seeing it go into your vein, you feel it. Radiation. It's like, it's invisible, you know, it's invisible, but in your mind, you're like, it's radiation. Like, know, you think of Hiroshima or something like it's, it freaks you out. And then there's also the aspect of it where you're on a table, exposed, alone, in a room. And something I did not know about radiation, that I know now, is that they need you to be in the exact same position every single time because of, they have it like all mapped out on computers and they need it all lined up perfectly. It's all very, very precise. Which is good, because we don't want our heart or our lungs radiated. But one of the ways in which they keep you in the same place is they lock, or at least I should say for me, because I know different places do it different ways, but for me, they created this mold of my mouth and my neck, and very, very tight to my mouth and my neck. And then that's clipped, locked onto the table. So it's literally this like mesh, hard plastic mask that locks your head onto the table. So you're exposed, alone, locked to the table, unable to move. It's extremely vulnerable. It's extremely vulnerable and you have to do it every single day. So it's just this unrelenting schedule. Your entire life is overtaken by this schedule of radiation. And for me, I didn't really see anything happening for a while. And then when it got to the last 10 days, I would say of radiation, the skin in my armpit started to give up, say, see ya, all fell off. I had third degree burns in my armpit and it... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/33299332

Reflecting on Breast Implant Illness and Going Flat after Explant 09/25/2024

Reflecting on Breast Implant Illness and Going Flat after Explant Today I'm reflecting on last week's interview with Anna Hopkins, who spoke of Breast Implant Illness and the experience of going flat after 18 years with implants. Support my work by making a donation here: Watch this episode on YouTube here: Links from today's episode: Breast Implant Illness Articles and Resources: Anna's YouTube Channel: Anna's Instagram account: Transcript: Today, I want to reflect on last week's interview with Anna Hopkins, if you're watching this podcast on YouTube this week, you will notice that I have a lot of my stand tall materials behind me and on me. we just got our new banners for the new breast cancer awareness month and all the walks this year in October and, uh, had an early walk this year in Oregon. So I got the banner a little early and I've got it on the wall behind me cause we just had our kickoff rally for stand tall for the year. Stand tall is the main flat organization that I'm affiliated with and it's really just present at breast cancer walks and Advocating for flat awareness, flat visibility and flat pride in the community. That's not our official mission. That's just my words. But you can see that our slogan this year is "Two, One, or None,. Let's stand tall together" so we're not. Pitting ourselves against people who've had implants. We are standing United with them as people who've been through breast cancer and had mastectomies. And, that's really what Anna and I were talking about this week or last week on the podcast. So I thought I would include that in my YouTube presentation. My t shirt here is Wendy Sage, who has been the stand tall mascot, and she's holding a sign that says body positive with a pink ribbon on it. A lot of us flatties have resisted the pink ribbon because of all the controversy around it, but I think we're finally most of us are embracing it now as the sign of our community as a whole, even though it comes with a lot of baggage. So, check out Stand Tall AFC and their new website. They've got an amazing directory of flat resources, both flat walks and flat groups that you might want to find in your area if you're interested. But Anna's story was primarily around the incidence of breast implant illness. And this is something I am not an expert in. I don't have a lot of research background in, and so I'm going to point you to resources in the show notes for that one. This is something that has been very shrouded in our community of breast cancer survivors up until recently. With the advent of Facebook and Instagram and the sharing of resources there, we have been able to identify, in our community just so much more quickly. Those people who have gotten sick because of their breast implants. I'm not going to quote any statistics because they're ever changing, but a good amount of people who get breast implants are not able to live with them long term. They have, mostly autoimmune reactions as Anna did. And of course, not until Anna actually had her second set of implants taken out, did she learn about her breast implant illness and, identify that it was her first set of implants that started her down that cascade of what she thought was allergies ended up being autoimmune issues and her second set of implants. She had an even more strong reaction to, but she lived 10 years with them nonetheless, and lived with all of those symptoms for all those years. And then was kind of set free from them in the end when she. decided after 10 years that she wanted them out a lot of people in the flat community are what we call Explanters they are people who have had implants in the past and have gone flat after having implants I didn't realize that when I first joined the flat community. I thought most people were like me and Had gone There's a phrase for it, straight to flat. I don't ever use that phrase, but it is a phrase that is sometimes used to differentiate those who have had explants in or implants in the past and had them explanted. And those of us who just went directly to after mastectomy to flatness like myself. And so I would say out of everyone I've met in the flat community, Probably half have explanted after having implants for a significant amount of time and being very, very uncomfortable with them physically. Some women are also uncomfortable with them psychologically, kind of the way that I and Anna have described. Not feeling ourselves when we're wearing prosthetics. Some women also feel like they're not themselves wearing implants, but usually it's more of a physical symptom, physical sickness, and really it's largely autoimmune kinds of symptoms that people get when they're afflicted with. Breast implant illness, which is actually a thing. It's a medical term. And like I said, I'll link to some information in the show notes. Another part of Anna's story that I wanted to reflect on is the fact that her doctors, when she insisted on getting her implants out, her doctors then did the extremely bullying and psychologically abusive move of sending her to get a psychological evaluation. And I'm so grateful that Anna was willing to tell that part of her story. It is a very shameful and humiliating experience to be sent by any medical professional to have a psychological evaluation, especially after you've made it clear to them that you are uncomfortable with part of your body that's been causing sickness and yet it is pretty common even in these last few years, much more common, I think decades ago, but as Anna shared, not even that long ago, um, in, at least in her region, it was considered normative to send a woman for a psych eval after her expression of discomfort with her womanly shape is how I think the. medical professionals interpret it when really it was just the implants that she was having a problem with. If they could have heard her more distinctly and, um, clearly, I think that's what she was expressing. So, she didn't talk a lot about how that made her feel, but I just, I just wanted to honor the fact that a lot of women go through that very, very Painful and insulting process, and it really is medical battery, in my opinion, to do that to any person to pretend that their, their desire for change or for healing, implies that there's something wrong with their mind or their emotional health. I loved Anna's, very kind of visceral and physical description of her saying goodbye to her breasts and her realization that they were going to be changing and that she wouldn't have that relationship with her nipples. Um, and I just wanted to also kind of point out that just really poignant part of her story. And. And the loss that we all go through, especially when we just don't really know what it's going to feel like to not have our natural breasts. Um, there's a lot of fear of the unknown. I think that happens before mastectomy. And then I so related to the part of her story where she talked about being pleasantly surprised after mastectomy and being delighted with the childlike power that she had, um, her word was power and. Uh, the power of, a, free and joyful little girl and just being herself and not having to carry the baggage of all the, womanly associations and sexualized associations that we carry as grown women. I think that's worth pointing out. I certainly relate to that myself, and that's definitely a part of my joy in being flat myself. I think another part of the interview that was really important to me was connecting with Anna over my memory of being with her. I first met Anna in a yoga class that she was teaching as a part of a retreat for flatties in Palm Springs. And she was teaching us Kundalini yoga. And it was, I think my second time taking a Kundalini class and I was just so struck with her beauty and her grace and calm. And, the next day we went to a breast cancer walk together with stand tall AFC. And, Anna decided to take her shirt off and it was the first time. And she'd been to walks before where women had taken their shirts off as flatties, but that was the first time she was willing to do so herself. And I just happened to be walking next to her when she did it. And wow, I mean, it just bowls you over the emotion of that. Experience being surrounded by other women that have lost their breasts and them all also feeling the heavy and also the light implications of that experience of sharing one's body. I want to talk a little bit about what that's like because it's, it's easy to forget kind of the novelty of what it's like to be in a breast cancer walk and see another woman, especially a flatty without her shirt on. You tend to think as someone who's grown up in the Northwest where there are nudists. And, you know, nudity is not completely unheard of there are, um, mostly hot springs, I guess, around here that are allowing of nudity. And so I've been around some nudity and I'm sure there are nudist communities too, but I've never been a part of that. And then I just went to Burning Man, my last, episode, actually, before Anna's interview was. about my experience at Burning Man and Burning Man is a place where nudity is allowed. And I probably saw a dozen people over the week that were nude, not a lot. Um, some of them riding bikes and some of them walking, some of them partially nude if they're women and fully nude if they were men. And this is different when you're at a breast cancer walk. It is not the same feeling as seeing someone who is exhibitionally being nude, in public. It's a much more vulnerable, much more tender kind of experience by necessity. There is no exhibitionism of it. Um, in terms of like what I'm reading or what I'm feeling when I'm experiencing it, it is just pure vulnerability and sharing. And I personally, when I'm around someone, Nude in the context of Burning Man or Hot Springs, I tend to look away. I don't feel comfortable looking at their bodies, but in a flat Community context, I have learned that it is safe to not look away, and it is actually welcome to look at each other's bodies and appreciate the little differences in the outcomes that we received surgically and to comment on those. That's a welcome thing in our community. It's just a, it's been a really safe community for me and my friends. And that's a part of our stories that may not. Seem relatable to the average person listening to this podcast, but I just want to reiterate how important it's been to me for me to feel the freedom in our podcast to tell Anna how beautiful her flat closure was and to acknowledge the fact that I had looked closely at her body. It's not a common experience and it's not something. That someone like me and my culture and my social upbringing, would normally feel comfortable doing, but it's really important and I feel pretty strongly about it. Especially when someone has a really nice flat closure. It's. It seems really important to me to compliment them on it and to compliment their surgeon on it, because it is so rare in our community to have an aesthetic flat closure, which is what AFC stands for. And as is now a medical term that we can refer to when we're talking to surgeons, there's still an ongoing battle to get. Aesthetic flat closure in the surgical setting. A lot of surgeons are fearful that they will not be reimbursed adequately for it. And we're still working on legislation to correct that and to get that written into the women's rights, bill or act that is allowing for insurance to cover or demanding that insurance cover things like implants, and so, at Stand Tall AFC, we are advocating for the allowance of language to add, chest wall reconstruction to the verbiage in the women's, rights and reproductive act. I probably haven't said that correctly, so I will refer to the act below in the show notes in the correct form, but, that's one of the new platforms that Stand Tall is working on with an organization called Not Putting on a Shirt, which is actually their umbrella organization. So Anna's flat closure being a true, aesthetic flat closure with no extra skin, no lumps and bumps and ripples and dog ears, which is what we call this little, area that if you're watching on YouTube right now, you can see on my underarm. I've got a little lump, just a little one. Most have bigger ones. I can't really complain, but little lump of extra fatty skin that, would normally have. Sat right above my breast and under my underarm. That just kind of sticks out and that's really, really common. Most surgeons will tell you it's unavoidable and unfixable. Certainly all of my surgeons have told me that, but Anna having been a woman who was quite thin and yet had quite large breasts, she was able to, Actually achieve a true aesthetic flat closure with no extra lumps on the side or ripples, at least not any obvious ripples. I'm sure, like she said, she still sees a little bit of bumpiness and lumpiness when she looks in the mirror. We all see some kind of imperfection, I'm sure, but I just, I love that I am free as her friend in this community to comment on her body and commend her surgeon for the good work that he was able to do for her in that way. And I hope that we can all push our surgeons to strive for better work in that area. None of us want to go back under anesthesia and get revision after revision after revision. I certainly don't. Um, But it's really important to get it right the first time so that we don't have to go back under anesthesia and feel like we're being petty to go back and ask for part of our body to be taken off after surgery. So that's that's a really important platform that I will stay on and get back on that. soap box probably pretty frequently on the podcast. It's a big one for us. Flatties really important. Anna talked about how important the flat community has been to her online and how she started her career as an influencer, a fashion influencer on Instagram and YouTube because the other flatties really encouraged her to keep going with her fashion experiments and sharing her photos. And like she said, she was painfully shy. Going into this experience and she has now gained a real following and has a lot of fans that really thank her for their comfort in their clothes as flatties and their ability to play with fashion and experiment and share. Together with others, and so Anna has become a really pivotal part of the flat community online unexpectedly, and, she really gave a lot of credit to the folks that came before her in this community. And I just want to share how open this community is to other women that have lost their breasts. It's really a very accessible community. And like I said, Stand Tall has an amazing directory of different flat groups all across the country and across the world. It's growing all the time. And if you want to see some flatties in person, whether you're a flattie or not, you can find the places, where we are present at the Stand Tall website and places where we've gone and walked in breast cancer walks before together. If you're here in the Northwest, we have. A lot of presence in Seattle and Portland. There's a Medford walk this year that will be pretty well attended, I think, too. And, maybe Centralia. There's a new walk that's just surfacing in Centralia, which is halfway between Seattle and Portland. We might show up to that one as well, but the main one in Portland, if you're local, that's happening this year is at the University of Portland. It's the Making Strides American Cancer Society Walk. We'll have a table there for stand tall. I will be at that table if you'd like to come by and say hi. It's at University of Portland in North Portland. And rumor has it that most of our Flattie troop will be there. So we'll be there Representing with our shirts off. So if you'd like to see some flat bodies Watch for that in person or online. There'll be some pictures. I'm sure that'll come out online Sometime during the last week of October That walk will be October 20th, I believe so Anna will not be there, but I will be there and, my Portland Flattie group will be there. And Miriam, who I interviewed last on the podcast will be up at the same walk in Seattle, the Making Strides American Cancer Society walk in October . And she'll be at the table as well. So you can see Miriam as a half flat woman. She's still got one breast, but she'll be, I'm sure wearing a bikini or a half a bikini so that she's got one of her breasts covered and the flat side showing. So again, I just want to give Anna, lots of credit for being a big part of the flat community and more visible part of the flat community online and kind of holding that banner high for us in her fashion ways. She just has a really particular niche and a special gift and a real playfulness around it too. She's got so much humility. She doesn't claim to be an expert or to know anything about fashion, you know, in terms of, right or wrong, but she just experiments a lot and has fun with her clothes. So I definitely, encourage you to go and check out, Closet Lady Flattie Fashions on Instagram and YouTube. So hopefully you can find her there and you can interact with her there too. She's really responsive. If you comment or ask questions or if you have a question about fashion or a quandary or a dilemma or something she hasn't covered in any of her short tutorials in the past. Next week, I am interviewing. My friend, Meryl Opsal, she is a new friend. She's a fellow podcaster and pretty recently on Instagram, just telling her heart wrenching story of some of the side effects of her medication from , having triple negative breast cancer. Meryl is a truth teller and an amazing storyteller. And so I hope you'll tune in next Wednesday to hear her story. It is more of a typical story with chemo and radiation being an awful, gauntlet to get through and Meryl does it with so much grace. And she also talks a lot in our interview about her parenting journey and how she's learned to talk to her kids about her breast cancer experience as they see her suffering through it, and just being real with them, with the right language. So yeah, check out my next interview next week on Wednesday with Meryl and I'll talk to you then. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/33067492

Anna Hopkins, The Closet Lady 09/18/2024

Anna Hopkins, The Closet Lady My friend Anna Hopkins tells her story on today's podcast episode--a story of Breast Implant Illness that ends in her fully embracing her new breastless and flat chest as a flat fashionista. Please see the links below to learn more about BII and its auto-immune disorders, common among women with breast implants. Links from today's episode: Anna's YouTube Channel: Anna's Instagram account: Read about Breast Implant Illness here: Fierce Flat Forward, Thrivers who Thrift, and Flat Out Love are the facebook Groups that Anna mentioned using herself. Transcript: My guest today is Anna Hopkins, my good friend from the flat community. Anna and I met a year ago in October at the Palm Springs flat retreat. And we've been connecting ever since both on the topic of flat and of lobular advocacy. Anna is a retired dental hygienist. She lives in Tucson, Arizona, and she was diagnosed in 2008 with ER positive, stage two, invasive lobular carcinoma, which we haven't talked about too much on the podcast yet. Her initial lumpectomy in 2008 was followed pretty quickly after by a double mastectomy in 2009 and then she went flat, a whole 10 years later in 2019. She goes by “the closet lady” in her videos on both YouTube and Instagram. And so we'll talk a little bit about her work as an advocate for flat fashion. And Anna, I just want to welcome you to the podcast. We've been planning this for so long. Thank you for coming on and telling your story today. A: Yes. Thank you so much for having me Kathleen. I so appreciate being able to be here and share a little bit of my journey. K: Yeah. So I want to talk about some of your initial diagnosis details and decisions. You happen to have a lumpectomy first, and then you had a real big change of heart quickly after that. And I wanted to hear about that first as you're telling your story today. A: I happened to be watching a show and, um, they were talking because it was breast cancer awareness month in October. I thought, Oh, I should, you know, do a self exam. And I did. I was quite surprised when I actually found what felt like a pretty good sized lump to me, and I was somebody that had already had implants in my body. So, um, it was not always easy to do self exams because of those, and they were saline implants at the time, and I had had them, I want to say, for probably about eight years at that time. So I found the lump and went in to have it looked at. They couldn't find it. Um, the radiologist technician could not find it on ultrasound and I kept telling them that there was indeed something there. they eventually brought in the actual radiologist who had to do the ultrasound themselves and they did verify, yes, that there was indeed something there. And I, from that point, opted instead of having like a needle biopsy, I had begun my research immediately and, and, you know, understood there was like false positives and negatives with needle biopsies and that either way the lump needed to come out. So I just went immediately to the surgical route and said, please remove the lump. So they removed the lump and that's when the diagnosis came back. Really, relatively within two days that it was indeed positive for breast cancer and you know, lobular breast cancer is what they told me when I went into the office, you know, and then things kind of become a whirlwind really quickly. I was assured when I found my team that it was okay to take some time to kind of do a little research because apparently they said that the lump probably had been there for about three to five years they also, I'll never forget this statement that one of the things they said, they said, Oh, it's, it's a great thing that you had implants in your body because it helped push the lump forward so you were able to palpate it and feel it. So I was kind of immediately like, cause I, I kind of felt benign about implants before like it was no big deal. I had nursed my children and my breast, I felt, you know, less than as a woman and I had wanted, you know, to make them look better again. So that's why I got the implants. So I was thinking, Oh, these things are wonderful. It even helped me discover my own breast cancer, you know. I also came into that at the same time having a long history of allergies that seemed to be continuously building and more problems. I did have a great oncologist, I will say, um, he did tell me because of my allergies and things that I had at the time that he wanted to kind of confer with, you know, he was on a board and he wanted to talk to the board. That was kind of, you know, doctors from all over the states, and he wanted to sit down with them because of my long history of allergies and rare kind of conditions already. He also told me at the time he said, you know, I'm kind of concerned that possibly the chemotherapy would be, you know, would be the thing to kill you before the cancer even. So that kind of stuck with me. There were just some, you know, some statements that stuck with me. I mean, social media groups were in their infancy and I didn't belong to any at the time and research online was not as perfected as it is now. And just not the amount of information available, not that it's always accurate, but it was harder to kind of weed through and find anything anyway. At the time it was pretty adamant that it usually will mirror image and the other breast, you know, if you have lobular, that kind of thing. So I was like, okay, which was a really strong point for me to, to advocate for a mastectomy on both sides. Even though I was being told by my team, you know, let's just do the lumpectomy, you know, and if anything, you could take the one breast off. And then my oncologist at the time, though, I will give him this credit again, said, you know, there's really only a 2 percent benefit if you're going to do this chemotherapy and you need to weigh if that's going to be beneficial enough for you. He was seemed to be a little more on the cutting edge kind of information about lobular where he told me that the benefits weren't great and also given my allergies. And he said, and he literally looked me in the face, which I still to this day feel so grateful for, and he said, you know, I have to tell you that the protocol is that you need to do chemotherapy. He said, but I want you to know that I'm not going to lose any sleep if you choose not to. And it was kind of like giving me permission to do what I felt was already the best thing. And it also kind of. Um, not only empowered me, but solidified the information I had found. K: And your tumor was, you said two centimeters. So it wasn't a tiny tumor. It was definitely palpable. So that's interesting. A: Yeah. It was 2. 5 centimeters. Yeah. K: And your, your impression is that it was because it was lobular and lobular doesn't respond as well to chemo. That is the reason why your oncologist said that? A: Yes. And there was very little information about that back then, but there was something, because I, I had really gone down some holes and, you know, finding, I just, it's just what I do. So, you know. found everything I possibly could and I'm grateful that I was able to find something on that. K: Sure. So you decided on a double mastectomy against their wishes. They were trying to encourage you to at most do a single mastectomy. How did you land on the double mastectomy decision? A: I did not want to approach, um, fearful of, um, a mammogram every year. And is it back? And then I've got to go through this whole procedure again. To me, it just made more sense to take them both off. I mean, it, it to me felt like a risk that I just wasn't willing to live with, you know, in a more, it didn't feel peaceful to my, uh, sense of what thriving would feel like. K: Yeah. And so did you get implants at that time when you had the double mastectomy? A: Yes. And I, and I really have to say, this is a part that I really felt a lot of shame in because, you know, feeling so, you know, interested in, you know, research and really wanting answers and knowing how important health is, you know, with the way we feed our body and all those other things. I felt really shameful that I somehow missed the component of implants and the toxicities that might've existed within them. You know, and then I also try to remember to be kind to myself that remember I was given these messages that, you know, hey, it saved my life. It helped me find the breast cancer. And so I, you know, had a friend who was actually a surge, a plastic surgeon of all things and his mother had gone through breast cancer and he himself assured me how safe these were now because they'd been so extensively researched and they'd just been re released and I should feel so good about having him in my body now. And he showed me, you know, how he could cut them in half and they no longer would ooze everywhere in your body. You know, he went through the whole thing and this was even a friend of mine and I was being told this. And so I really bought it hook, line, and sinker and didn't think further through it. Yeah. K: So you mentioned that you had some shame after that, after you had received the implants, how long did it take you to learn about breast cancer illness and the toxicity? A: My gosh. For years. So, you know, in my, my, to get the implants reconstruction, my body, you remember I had implants prior and I think I was accumulating issues. You know, my allergies were increasing all these things. And then they'd name, of course, put the silicone implants in my body. Cause they're like, you have just skin left, there's no fat, you know, these aren't going to be as ripply. It's going to be better overall. So they put, you know, the expanders in my body. My body rejected these expanders. Initially, they told me they would be in my body for maybe three months, you know, and they constantly were, you know, putting more fluid in, more fluid. Cause I had all this extra skin to fill up where, you know, my breast had been before. And the skin kept dying and blackening. I kept having infections. They kept, you know, swabbing them. They couldn't figure out what the infections were. I mean, I was miserable and yet they pumped it full of fluid all the time with all that going on. And then they would do surgery and cut out the dead tissue and continue on and sew me up. And it became so tight with the expanders. And they kept assuring me that, Oh, it'll be better when we get them out. And you know, we'll put the implants in and all will be well. I had that for nine months. They took the implant, you know, the expanders out, put in the implants and, you know, subsequently you can imagine I started the journey with of course, hearing from my oncologist, Oh, they look great. This is a wonderful result. You know, and I'm thinking, I look disfigured and horrendous, but they kept, you know, I looked great in clothes and that seemed to be all that mattered to everybody. And then I was, you know, looking like a normal woman. And, you know, also. newly married, you know, for a year, I felt the pressure of like I needed to make sure I had breasts for my husband. I continued for 10 years with incredible pain and I would always go in and say they're so tight. They're uncomfortable and they would always assure me. Oh, it's fine. You're gonna, you know, you're aging. You're gonna have other issues. You know, it's not the implants. They're safe. I kept, you know, at one point within the last couple years, I kept saying it doesn't feel right. Like I feel like something's wrong and you know, once I decided on the explant, finally, you know, at the 10 year mark, I was like, and I knew, you know, they're only supposed to be good for 10 years. They kept assuring me, Oh, they can stay forever, though the data said otherwise. And I said, I had to then, you know, of course go through the battle of, “I want these out of my body and I want them out at all costs.” You know, I didn't know anything about flat closure. There was no information that I had found about it other than that people that were dying and had no option to live were kind of, you know, flat because they were, you know, had given little time left on earth. And I said, you know, I don't care if I'm disfigured, please get these out of my body. I knew that I was ill and I was very ill and it did not match my lifestyle. Like there's no reason I should feel the way I did and have the issues I had when I lived the way I did. I mean, I'm such a, I mean, a lot of people might think it rigid, but I mean, I'm not someone who is waivers and cheats or, you know, my lifestyle was so clean and so healthy. So I knew that that was the last thing and I wanted them out, so I didn't know about breast implant illness still even at that point but I did find a surgeon that told me about it. K: So you were probably really shocked after the explant then after you took your implants out, how well you started to feel, I imagine. A: It was, it was immediate. I had no expectation. I did not know, you know, of course, I'm still thinking, well, this may be better. I don't know. Immediately my range of motion was incredibly improved and I was still recovering under anesthesia and you know, wounds and things. I could already feel the difference. People would see me and they would say, “What? I mean, your eyes,” like I didn't realize how the physical toll it had taken on my body. They would say, It looks, have you lost weight? I mean, it looked like I lost 30 pounds. I was swollen from the inflammation in my body from those implants. The surgeon at the time who ended up operating on me was wonderful microsurgeon. And he did tell me about breast implant illness and he said, I do believe that you have this. So yeah, it was miraculous how much better I felt. Yeah. It was miraculous. I felt like a whole new human being, even though I still had some chronic issues, I kind of felt like I was going back to the me before I ever had implants on my body. And it was, just so amazing. K: So I want to hear about your experience with flat closure, not just the surgery and the outcome and how it looked, but how you felt going into it and then how you felt later coming out of it. A: I was scared. I didn't know anybody else that was flat. I didn't have any pictures. Um, I didn't have any information. I just knew it was what I needed and I expected to come out disfigured and that I was just going to be okay with that. so I, you know, that was scary. Part of that journey that really stood out for me was I was referred to my general practitioner when I was trying to find a plastic surgeon that would remove them because my oncologist office. You know, didn't want me to do it. And nor the breast surgeon that had initially operated on me. so, they referred me, um, to my general practitioner, where I just went in for, I don't even know what I was going in for, just to check up. And they were, basically they gave me a psychological evaluation, which I was completely shocked and astounded, and did not even realize what was happening until They left the room and I just, I didn't even have, and I didn't have a voice to even ask them or question them. I just walked out of the office, stunned, honestly. Um, and then I found, you know, a space, a space of anger thinking what is going on, but it did not deter me from my determination to get them out of my body. Um, so it's kind of like that, you know, advocacy for myself kicked in again, where I knew what was better for me and I was really going to stick with it. like when I was first diagnosed, but I had missed this on it. So. the right surgeon through a couple referrals and talked to him at length about wanting them out of my body. He did kind of consider if I had enough fat, you know, to kind of do the DIEP flap and all that stuff. He said, you do not have enough fat to do that and it would only give you at best a size A. I said, listen, I don't want that. It's not worth it for me at all. I don't want that surgery. I'm willing, you know, whatever it takes to be disfigured. And so he just agreed he would do the best he could and we left it at that. When I awoke, you know, it was astounding to me, I was a different person already. Um, it was astounding to me when I saw, you know, my scars for the first time. I have pictures of when I first saw them and the drains coming out of my body. And it was hard. I mean, I had been so defined by my breasts as a woman, you know, not only was it something that, you know, people considered me so, you know, voluptuous and beautiful with, I also, for me, what was the most difficult thing for me and part of my journey was the crying of losing my breasts when I went through it initially, because I nursed my girls, my children with them. So to me, it was a really hard letting go of something that was so important to me that nurtured my children. I was driving into my convertible car of all things. And the rain started pouring down and it was like, you know, kind of like, you know, the universe speaking to me and allowing me to grieve it fully. My nipples hardened at the time because it was chilly and it was rainy. And I started bawling even harder because I thought I'll never know what this experience is. experiences like again to feel you know, something that's so natural we don't even think about it about our nipples hardening for whatever reason. It was just really a huge grief process, and I still feel teary when I talk about it, because it was powerful. You know how important breasts are to our, our, you know, definition of ourselves sometimes as women for many reasons. So yeah, that was a big experience. But leaving after having a flat closure and seeing my, my scars for the first time, I kind of remember feeling this surprising sense of acceptance that I didn't expect to have. And again, I hadn't found the flat communities or anything like that. And I remember feeling powerful because my daughter was seeing me as a powerful woman still with no breasts. And she's a young, young adult woman at this time. And she had lived with me through breast cancer and it was very traumatic for her. And now as a young woman to see me make this other decision and to feel powerful as a woman still. And I felt like this power of this little girl that I once was who was never defined by breasts or anything when you're a little girl. You're just a little girl. You're just Anna. And I felt like just Anna again. I can't really put words to it still. It was so powerful and it kind of is what carried me through the challenges of the healing, you know, the lumps and bumps, the redness, you know, the things that you deal with, the taking of the drains out, all the things that are hard, like how do I dress? All those things. So yeah, it was super powerful. And yeah, then I remember thinking, gosh, I should, maybe I should go in and see what it's like to have a prosthetic. And I remember spending a few hours, the women were lovely. They showed me all these different shapes and sizes and all these things. And I thought, When I remember putting them on, I remember thinking, gosh, these feel so weird and awkward. And I feel like they didn't feel heavy, but I was like, everybody's going to know these aren't real breasts. It's interesting how your mind does these things. I wanted nothing to do with them, but I still took them home thinking, how could I ever feel comfortable in these? What if they fall out? What if they move? Like it was such a weird thing for me. And I also didn't feel comfortable walking around flat at the time. So it was really kind of, you know at home and healing and trying to find my place in the world now. K: Yeah. So I first encountered your body four years after you went flat. And I remember my first thoughts. So I was there when you... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/33067352

Burning Man - Big Medicine for Big Loss 09/11/2024

A Reflection on Self Advocacy for Young Survivors 08/28/2024

A Reflection on Self Advocacy for Young Survivors This is a very short recap of stirred thoughts and feelings after talking to Miriam last week about her amazing self advocacy as a young breast cancer survivor with complicated hormonal needs. Catch this podcast on YouTube here: Support my work by making a donation here: Links: The Facebook group for Flatties that I mentioned is here: Transcript: Welcome back. Today, I'm just going to be recapping some of the topics that came up in the last interview, last week's podcast episode with my friend, Miriam Janove. Miriam is a young breast cancer survivor, just three and a half years out from her diagnosis. And she had a lot to say about a lot of subjects that are common for young survivors. The first one that came up was the idea of over diagnosis and over treatment for young survivors. As she had stated, she got a second opinion, not because of the concern over whether she was being over treated, but because she needed a surgeon that really knew how to do her surgery, but she ended up with a new oncology team who ended up treating her very differently than what her first oncology team told her they would. And that was because of her age. She was in her 30s. And it was pretty clear that her first oncology team had a bias that said that young survivors need chemo regardless of whether they have an oncotype test that says that they are low risk or high risk. Her second team of oncology professionals had a very different take and they really relied on her oncotyping to determine whether she would have chemo. And like so many of my guests, unexpectedly, she did not have chemo. It's so funny to me that I keep having guests that I assume have had chemo because you always assume folks in the breast cancer community, if you know them from this place--you assume it's pretty likely that they've had chemo, but it turns out that only, I think one of my guests so far has ended up having chemo. Some of them turned down chemo and others were told they didn't have to have chemo. So Miriam was one that was told very clearly that she was not even being asked to take chemo. So pretty rare, I think classically for young survivors, but more and more we are seeing people who are, Healthcare professionals relying on the oncotyping test to see whether or not they really need it. And so she was not overtreated. She was not given chemo when she didn't need it. Of course, we don't know. She's only three and a half years out. As she said, she's still, you know, somewhat at risk as we all are for recurrence or metastasis, regardless. But really nice that she didn't have to go through that particular hellish part of the breast cancer experience. Thank you. The other part of her young survivor story that came out was her desire to be around, um, multi generational people. So she wanted to be back with her parents. She wanted to be around younger children. Kind of a revisiting of her values and really placing family and friends and children, the children of her friends, over her career as a big priority. So that was a theme that I think is really very common among young survivors. We, a lot of us, think differently after breast cancer about what our ambitions really are serving and where our ambitions really lie. And I think Miriam's a really good example of that. A big part of Miriam's story that we didn't talk about because we didn't have time is her history of gynecological problems of hormone imbalance and dysfunction around her menstrual cycles. And she did refer to the fact that she had lost her ovaries. And I wanted to clarify because I think people probably wondered after hearing the last interview that she Miriam was not asked to give up her ovaries because of being treated for breast cancer specifically. She was asked to give up her hormone treatment, which she had had, pretty much her whole adult life because of menstrual dysfunction and hormone imbalance. And so she was on estrogen and progesterone, or otherwise known as birth control, not for the sake of birth control, but for the sake of managing her very difficult menstrual symptoms and after breast cancer, folks who are dependent on hormone treatment, hormone therapy for those kinds of symptoms have no choice but to give up their ovaries if those symptoms are extreme as hers were. And so she was not put on ovarian suppression. She was not offered ovarian suppression drugs and she did need to give up her ovaries. Regardless, because she was so dependent on hormone therapy. And so, I think just to reassure those listeners who are very concerned that they might have symptoms as extreme as Miriam's, which were, you know, extreme energy loss, extreme brain fog, and some pain, um, some bodily pain also. While those are common side effects of estrogen deprivation and endocrine therapy that comes for many of us after breast cancer in the form of tamoxifen or aromatase inhibitors. Her symptoms were actually more extreme because she also lost her ovaries. And at that young age, it's very difficult to lose your ovaries and to lose that supply of hormones that we're used to having at that stage in our lives. So I want to reassure people that even though tamoxifen can have extreme effects and really alter our lives and our lifestyles, it is not quite that extreme for most of us. And I think that personally, I think that Miriam's ovary loss had something to do with that as well. I'm sure she would agree with me if she were here to comment. Really interesting set of characteristics. I wanted to talk a little bit about the fact that she had to search for a different surgeon. Again, it's just so common to hear stories of these kind of contrasting first and second opinions, whether it be for surgical procedure or for breast cancer treatment. In Miriam's case, it was both. She was looking for someone with experience with flat closure, and she didn't find that on her first go round, and she had to look elsewhere, and thankfully she found it in her second try, the second healthcare system that she tried in her city. I happen to have also gotten my second mastectomy in Seattle, in her city, and I was at a third healthcare system at that time. So if you're in Seattle, two out of three healthcare systems that I know of are really good at flat closure. But I think, especially in smaller cities or towns, it is really hard to find a surgeon that does it well. And then if, like me, you're looking for a Goldilocks procedure, it's even harder to find surgeons with experience in that area. So, really good to hear Miriam talk about how she was reassured that she didn't need to be in a rush and that she could afford to take that time and look for the right practitioners. I love that part of her story. I think it's so important to tell because so many of us feel rushed. Even when we are reassured that we have time, we want to act as soon as possible. We don't want to wait. I personally would never have gone up to Seattle to seek a surgeon or even looked on Facebook for pictures of surgeries of Goldilocks if I hadn't found out that my first choice of surgeons had broken her foot and she was putting me off a couple of months for my surgery only because I was afforded those couple of months to look around, did I get choosy. And I just really want to reiterate what Miriam said is you have time to get choosy unless you have an aggressive. are fast growing cancer. Those are the terms that your doctor will probably use to refer to it if it is, you know, the kind of cancer you need to act on quickly. That type of cancer is pretty rare in breast cancer. So most of us do have time to look around and get a second opinion. And as Miriam mentioned, she got her education in terms of what to do practically on Facebook. And so many of us do. There's a huge, um, uh, vis, visual kind of support system on Instagram as well in terms of like looking at each other's bodies and each other's outcomes. I've loved connecting with people on Instagram even more than Facebook because Facebook can be so dicey, but Facebook is really the place to go. If you're looking for quick answers in a forum full of women that have been through what you're looking at going through. And both Miriam and I found those answers. Thankfully, I found a photograph of a woman who lived up in Seattle who had an outcome that I realized I was capable of having, that I could actually still have a small breast after a mastectomy without having an implant. And that's how I learned about Goldilocks, and that's how I found my surgeon for my second surgery/mastectomy. So, really important to know about these Facebook groups. I know that Miriam is on a number of the ones I'm on for flat closure. The main one is . That's where I found that photograph and there are so many Facebook groups for so many different issues and topics around breast cancer and breast health. So if you don't know about those and you're kind of in an urgent situation where you really need to find the resources, just pose a question there. You can even do so anonymously if you'd like to. So that's, there's that option now, and the groups tend to be private, and they have some screening that restricts outsiders, people outside the breast cancer community from getting in. So it's a pretty safe community. Now, if you want to state your opinion about going out in public without your shirt on, you're going to get some pushback in that community, because there's a lot of debate about whether that's respectful and appropriate socially. And, uh, and you might notice that the cover art for last week's episode was indeed me and Miriam with our shirts off. So, uh, the flat community is kind of famous for, for doing that in the context of a breast cancer walk and breast cancer awareness events. And that's, those are the times that Miriam and I, and those are the times that Miriam and I have done that. Just in that context of other breast cancer survivors. So, uh, we have, we have fun doing that. We're both kind of uniboobers. And so we both have, um, tend to use a one sided bra in those contexts. And actually she and I are planning to meet up at a breast cancer walk this weekend. The first one of the season here in the Northwest. She and I are both going to be tabling at, um, events in Seattle this year. We'll for Stantol AFC. We're starting to have tabling this year for the first time. So she'll be one of the other tablers in the two big walks in Seattle. So you can look for her there if you live in Seattle. And I just wanted to wrap it up real quick and leave it at that for this week. I am between vacations right now. I have a very luxurious August. I, I had a wonderful restful vacation at the coast last week. I'm doing a quilting retreat this week and next week I'm going to be at Burning Man. So. I am putting out the podcast on Wednesdays this month because they're a little bit delayed and that just gives me a few days to catch up. But um, I expect that my next episode will not be a guest interview as is the pattern, but rather will be a conversation about my experience with radical self expression in Burning Man. Uh, Burning Man has a tradition of um, celebrating impermanence. And the things that are changeful in life, including loss and death. And I, I have a need because my mom died of metastatic breast cancer a few months ago. I have a need to grieve her and pay more attention to my own grief. And I'm planning to do that there. But I'm also planning to be around other women who have lost their breasts and who have learned how to ritualize that experience and grieve that experience. Um, so I'm really, really looking forward to meeting other women, especially who are in the same position as I am, having lost my mom, having lost my breasts, having breast cancer as my main adversary this year and last year, um, and just doing some appropriate grieving because I think our, our culture just doesn't allow us to grieve appropriately. And I think probably my Instagram account will be the first place you'll be able to see me at Burning Man. I'll be taking pictures of myself and having others take pictures of me. Mostly, I won't be taking pictures of others very often because they have a policy against that, that I really support and believe in. So, it'll mostly be pictures of me at Burning Man. But I hope to take a lot of them and share them on Instagram. And probably one will be the cover art of my next episode here, which will be out a couple of Wednesdays from now. Um, and I will talk to you then take care. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/32525672

Young Breast Cancer Survivor and "Unicorn Breastie," Miriam Janove 08/21/2024

Reflecting on TRAM Flap and Self Blame 08/11/2024

Reflecting on TRAM Flap and Self Blame There are some terms to define from the last episode, but mainly I want to talk more about the idea of self blame and "I must have done something wrong" raised by Avena last week. This is a topic worth discussion. Support the podcast here: Watch the podcast on Youtube here: Transcript: Today I'm doing another diary entry that's reflecting on my last interview. My last interview was with Avena Ward, my friend and writing partner, who had her first mastectomy 30 years ago. So she had some really old terms that I'm going to talk about today. The theme of the interview was following your intuition and self affirmation rather than self blame. But we also talked about some older kinds of procedures that I just want to talk about that are not really in use anymore, but you might hear about from friends that have had mastectomies in the past, and you might wonder about them because of that. So thought I would just define some terms as I usually do on the week after I have an interview, and then also talk about some of the general themes that came up. Avena just had so much great insight and wisdom and her sense of intuition is so spectacular. I just wanted to talk and reflect a little bit on that as well. So the first term that came up in the interview last Sunday with Avena was the term “radical mastectomy” and you don't hear about this happening anymore—it doesn't really happen anymore. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone in the last 10 or 20 years that's had one. What this means is they used to take not only your entire amount of breast tissue out, but also every single underarm lymph node. There are lymph nodes all over our body, so obviously I'm not taking every single lymph node, but the ones that are located under your arm, which is a very invasive surgery that ends up having a lot of symptoms and that's why they no longer do this procedure. But also part of your pectoral muscle or chest wall muscle is taken in a radical mastectomy. These days that still can happen. You still can have some scraping or removal of the pectoral muscle. I did myself because my DCIS had grown into the outer layers of my pectoral muscle. So that's not unusual. But that is not a radical mastectomy in itself. It has to include all three things, all the breast tissue, all the lymph nodes under the arm and the part of the pectoral muscle that is located under the breast. It's only a little less than half of the pectoral muscle that is located under the breast, but that is also removed in every instance with a radical mastectomy. And for that reason, yeah, we, we just don't see that being done anymore. Mostly because lymph node removal is very costly. in terms of quality of life and, uh, side effects of surgery, which in most cases is lymphadema. More, and more, and more, you see the science pointing towards less lymph node removal, really lessening that as much as possible. I was in San Antonio for the big breast cancer conference, research conference, this last December, and that was actually the biggest takeaway that most of us got, I think, was really lymph node removal is not going to benefit us if we can replace it with radiation. Because radiation does not result in as many long term side effects or quality of life issues like lymphadema. And with most surgeons techniques these days, the removal of lymph nodes more than one or two really does. It is very likely that folks will get long term lymphadema, and lymphadema is a really big hassle. You have to wear a sleeve in the summer when it's hot, your arm is always Um, I have a lot of friends with lymphadema and it doesn't go away. It's not something you can address with drugs or therapy. And so folks are in the medical community and research community are listening to patients when they say “it has not been worth it for me. I would have rather had more radiation.” And so that's what's happening now. We're changing still in this trend toward moving away from lymph node removal. Again, I'm not an expert. I'm just an advocate. I'm a well informed advocate, but your doctor is the expert. So do not take my advice here as medical advice. I am only trained in nutrition in terms of medical advice. So, go back to your doctor with this information and seek out their expertise on this if you can. And if you have questions, cause I'm not the one to ask, but it is really interesting to me that we're moving away from those more invasive types of mastectomy procedures. So, we do have something called a modified radical mastectomy these days, and that is taking less lymph nodes, but my guess is that even a modified radical mastectomy is on its way out based on what I saw in San Antonio this last December. The next concept that came up in my interview with Avena is a favorite of mine. She is a survivor of lobular cancer and lobular breast cancer is something that most women don't know about, even if they were diagnosed with it. Sometimes doctors don't tell them that they're diagnosed with it, number one, and most doctors don't fully understand it themselves because it has been drastically understudied and very, very seldomly separated from the other type of breast cancer that is more common, which is Ductal. And the two names of Ductal and Lobular are even being revisited these days in the scientific community. And that's kind of hot off the press. Only the people that are on the inside of Lobular Research really know that, so you're not going to hear your doctor affirming that probably, but because I am an active volunteer with the Lobular Breast Cancer Alliance, and I go to staff meetings, and I hear the latest news, that is something that has just come up in the last couple of months that Lobular was called Lobular because we used to think that it was located, the cancer was located in the lobules or that it started in the lobules, and ductal was called ductal because you thought it started in the ducts, but you can have Lobular breast cancer in the ducts and you can have ductal breast cancer in the lobules. So those are misnomers. They are mislabeled names that really probably should be replaced with a little bit more accurate names. The thing that makes lobular cancer itself and distinct from ductal is that it grows invisibly in a spiderweb like formation and not a lump or a tumor. So it is very hard to detect. And that's why I was shocked when Avena said that they actually detected it in her biopsy with Dr. Thurman. And I'm all the more impressed with Dr. Thurman's techniques because of that, because generally, you don't get, much of lobular in a biopsy unless it's really extensive, and Avena's wasn't very extensive. So, kind of surprising that they did catch it in the biopsy. I will talk a lot more about lobular breast cancer in the future because it deserves a couple hours of dedication and this is just a light summary of terms, but suffice it to say, there is a characteristic called E-cadherin. It is a genetic characteristic, not always an inherited generic characteristic, so not always something that we get from our mother or father or grandparents. Sometimes it's a mutation that happens. during our lifetime, just in us, and it is called E-cadherin. E-cadherin is the glue that sticks cancer cells together and makes them into a lump or a tumor, which turns out is a real blessing because we wouldn't detect cancer if it didn't stick together with that E-cadherin component and form a tumor, um, as often. So, lobular breast cancer is not detected as often as is the case in my own story. I did not know that I had lobular breast cancer until it was already out of my breast. And many, many women find that to be the case. A lot of times you're going in after ductal or DCIS. And as kind of a, a side effect of surgery, you see that you also have invasive lobular breast cancer in there, and it was invisible to all the scans. I had a PET scan, I had many MRIs, I had many ultrasounds and many mammograms, none of them picked up my lobular breast cancer. Albeit, it was a very small amount of lobular, I should say. If it gets quite large, then the scans will tend to pick it up, especially on an MRI. But there is new technology, a new PET technology in particular that will show a lobular growth—it's not a tumor, but a lobular lesion—will show up, um, on these new PET scans really well. So there is a new technology that we've seen getting developed and being tested and used in the scientific community. And it is just starting to be used in the clinical community now. So that's pretty exciting. I'll talk a lot more about lobular as we have more guests on that have that diagnosis. And I'll probably take a whole episode at some point just to talk about what we've learned. Because we have a lot that we're learning about lobular now that there is research that's dedicated just to it and not to the greater breast cancer community. I will say though that there is an event this year that you should know about if you have lobular or if you've had lobular or if you're interested in lobular, this year will be the first year that we will have an international lobular awareness day or lobular breast cancer awareness day. It's going to be on October 15th. And different states in the U. S. are in the process of approving it as a National Awareness Day. And we're going to have events all over the U. S. Here in Portland, Oregon, there's one at Providence Cancer Center in Northeast Portland, there's going to be an event at Sloan Kettering and MD Anderson and a number of other places there's, they're going to ring the bell at the Stock Exchange in Toronto that morning and proclaim it International Lobular Breast Cancer Awareness Day. So if you're interested in events, be sure and reach out to me and I'll let you know where the closest place near you to gather, get together either virtually or in person would be. And you can reach out to me at my email address, which is Kathleen Moss @protonmail. com. But moving on past the Lobular, I want to talk about the procedure that Avena had that is also a little bit less known these days or heard of these days, which is the TRAM flap procedure. Tram flap was one of the first kind of flap procedures that we saw used in plastic surgery setting to reform a breast or a breast like mound without using an interior prosthetic or implant. It is using, like Avena said very well, is using both skin and muscle, and it is an outdated procedure at this point. You don't hear people offer it to patients anymore, and that's because the simple fact that it, It tended to show a lot of hernias because the muscle was misplaced or displaced and realigned, um, up north of the abdomen. A lot of folks had hernias down where that muscle was supposed to be holding things in. And so we have something called DIEP flap or DI-EP flap as they say in the UK and Australia which is, uh, a really good replacement for TRAM Flap. It is not involving that abdominal muscle. It is just using skin and fat from the abdomen instead. So it's a similar procedure in that it uses skin and fat from the abdomen. It just doesn't use the muscle. And, uh, the words that are being stood for in the term DIEP Flap are deep as in D E E P, inferior epigastric perforator flap, which is just a way of saying the flap is, is kind of named for the abdominal blood vessel in that area. So it's just named after the blood vessel that travels through that area. And we will have guests on that have had a DIEP flap. I will say that my impression is at this point, and I'm not very experienced in this area, but my impression from talking to friends that have had a DIEP flap is that it is just as involved as a TRAM flap—it is many hours long, um, and maybe a day or two recovery in the hospital afterwards. So it is not a light procedure by any means. It's not as easy as having an implant. or going flat. So that is kind of a light definition of TRAM versus DIEP. You'll hear the DIEP term these days where you would have heard the TRAM flap before DIEP came along. Another term that Avena talked about was myofacial massage, and I think Avena did this term justice and talked about It's just a light form of massage that you can learn to do on yourself or you can go to a professional to do it on you. This is something like many other things in the breast cancer therapy world. It's kind of an elite offering. So if you go into the average breast cancer clinic and you say, I want myofascial massage, it's kind of like saying I want a nutritionist to help me with my breast cancer recovery and resistance to recurrence. They'll look at you like, “um, sorry, we don't offer that. That's a little beyond what we do here. We're just keeping people alive.” And really, I think the alternative/integrative community of medical professionals does this kind of work a lot better. Because after all, the conventional medical system is really just there to keep people alive. That's what they do best. And that's what they're doing when they do your mastectomy refer you to get your special bras or prosthetics afterwards. They're doing the bare minimum to keep you alive. You really have to go to the kind of alternative, or integrative, which is the term that I prefer to use or the community that I prefer to associate with myself to get these special, really deeply healing therapies like myofascial massage. And most of us need those. Most of us need more than. You know, a wig for when we have chemo and the cold caps and things like that to reduce the, the nerve inflammation, most of us need recovery help and we don't get it. And I just want to acknowledge that's kind of an elite thing. That you have to have a lot of money or really good health insurance in order to be offered. And you kind of need to know how to seek it out too. So you might need to call around. I found out about my excellent massage and physical therapist by going to my local breast cancer support group. And that's kind of one of the best things I learned from that support group. So you'll learn from other patients and these days that's happening a lot on Facebook groups based on the kind of breast cancer that you had, whether it's lobular, ductal, or whether you went flat or had implants, you'll, you'll probably find a Facebook group that is matching the description of your experience and no matter what that is based on, you will find really good advice there, especially if it's a local group on where to go for things like myofascial massage and nutrition and acupuncture and physical therapy, even a lot of patients don't even know that they're eligible for physical therapy after mastectomy and that they might need it to keep their tissue loose and not get all bound up with scar tissue, but it's really essential. In my opinion, it's one of the most essential things. So, myofascial massage is another thing that is, I guess, kind of a luxury, but also semi essential just in terms of not having pain and not having irritation on into the later years after a mastectomy. Now, getting into some of the more esoteric topics of discussion in Avina's interview, I just love that she touched on the concept of: “What did I do wrong” and the solution to that, having a community of other loving women around you to affirm, “I did nothing wrong.” That is one of the most powerful things that we can talk about in the breast cancer community. During breast cancer recovery is how much do you blame yourself? What do you think you did wrong? We all think we did something wrong. I mean, it's just natural, right? You kind of have to admit that before you can move on. But having other women around you that love themselves and either have forgiven themselves for what they think they did wrong, Or have talked themselves out of the fact that they did anything wrong, based on their beliefs. That is the most healing thing psychologically that I've encountered myself. And I love that Avena brought it up in this way, that the first time she had a mastectomy, she was alone. She had no one to tell her, you did nothing wrong. She had no one to witness, you did nothing wrong. She went away with the impression, “I must have done something wrong. After all, I was in La Leche. I learned that if you breastfeed, you are safe from having breast cancer. It must have been something I did wrong because I did that right and that was a pretty major thing.” She was alone with those thoughts. And she points out that not being alone is a key way to get over those thoughts. And I just have to repeat that over and over, shout it from the mountaintops. Do not be alone in this journey of recovery. Find others who have gotten past that self blame stage. And I see this all the time being a nutritionist. People are either clinging to me for what they can do right from now on, because they believe that what they ate was what they did wrong, or they run from me because I'm such a trigger, reminding them of what they did wrong, which was put a certain kind of food in their mouth, which in my opinion is totally false. You don't get cancer from putting a certain food in your mouth and you don't grow cancer from putting a certain food in your mouth. It's much bigger than that. Now it can play a role. It can have some influence in your momentum toward health to have a healthy diet for sure. And there are toxins, there are carcinogens in our foods. But that is not the only factor and it's not the main factor as far as science knows right now. And science is pretty advanced right now. So if you feel like it was you eating certain things that caused your cancer to grow or caused it in the first place, please be around other women that don't believe that belief. Find other women that maybe have thought that in the past and have come away from that belief. Or make an appointment with me because I can tell you with scientific research, with solid, solid research, that that is just not true. Now, stress is a huge factor. That's a big one. Exercise is probably the most scientifically founded belief in terms of like if you were a couch potato for the 10 years or 20 years before you got cancer. You know, you might be able to forgive yourself for that because there is some research that that could move the needle. Chances are it's not anything that you did wrong. Cancer finds us total involuntary methods. It comes into our lives in ways that we cannot see or prevent in almost every case. And then the things that grow cancer are multifaceted. So many different things, so many different viral infections that can get involved in autoimmunity that you might not know that you have and might not be able to know that you have. Heavy metal poisoning, you know, the list is endless. Nutrition and exercise and sleep, stress reduction, those are all part of it, but they all go together. There's not one that stands out as the single factor. And we're all doing the best we can, right? Like, we know about stress, and we know how to reduce it. We're all doing the best we can to reduce it. And we learn new techniques. And that's all you can do. So forgiving yourself for what you have done that was a little lazy, maybe, but also being around other women who are perfectly imperfect, just like you, who still love themselves and have forgiven themselves for whatever little bits of things they could have controlled. It's huge, huge. I can't say it enough. And then at the end of my conversation with Avena, we talked about the difference between a private clinic and a hospital imaging center and the kind of treatment that you get there both physically and just in terms of the quality of the machines, maybe, and spiritually in terms of how much the staff is overworked and underpaid and distracted, burned out, really, I mean, it's very, very likely that most of our hospital staff these days, especially after COVID is a little... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/32523427

Claim your Power, With Guest Avena Ward 08/04/2024

Claim your Power, With Guest Avena Ward My friend Avena had never told me her breast cancer story before this interview, so I'm hearing it fresh right along with you, and of course, her insights blew me away. Transcript: K: Today's guest is my friend, Avena Ward. She has been in my life just a short time, and she's been a writing partner to me, mostly online. We met each other through a local writers group called Willamette Writers here in Northwest Oregon. Avena lives in Portland, and she is a two time breast cancer survivor with a long history of dealing with thoughts about breast cancer and recovery from breast cancer. She had a long space in between her two diagnoses. Her second breast cancer occurrence was a second primary breast cancer occurrence in the contra-lateral breast. she has an interesting story to tell, and I'm so glad to have her here with me today. A: Thank you, Kathleen, for inviting me. I'm, uh, I'm anxious to share my story with, uh, other, others who are approaching this for the first time. K: So one of the questions that I wanted to ask you about your story is, is there anything that surprised you early on, especially around your first diagnosis? You were 42 years old, this was a few decades ago, so quite a while back, but what surprised you most at that time when you learned about your diagnosis? A: I think the fact that I had cancer at all surprised me the most. At 42, um, I had been debating whether to have a, a first mammogram, but I had breastfed both of my children for extended periods of time, uh, my daughter for two years and my son for 14 months. I had been a card carrying La Leche League member and we talked a lot about how breastfeeding confers some resistance to breast cancer. So I just was shocked when one day in the shower, I put my hand on my breast and felt a lump. Uh, and so it took me a very long time to even bring that to the attention of a doctor. K: How long? A: I think I found the lump in April and I didn't have imaging of it until July, and then I had a biopsy in August, so it was several months. K: How did you deal with the diagnosis itself? A: Again, just shock. And, um, my mother had recently died of lung cancer, not breast cancer, but nine months before my surgery, mom had passed away. And I had experienced a period of, a long period of deep grief after losing her at the age of 63. And so I was just coming out of the grief darkness when I found my lump. And, I found that my family didn't have a lot of capacity for handling the shock either. K: Hmm. Did you take your time deciding what to do and who to let guide you down this path or was it a quick process? A: I took my sweet time, yes, deciding what to do. And I guess it surprised me too, that I found in myself some really strong opinions about how I would proceed. And so part of that process was interviewing various surgeons. And at the time then the internet wasn't what it is now. You couldn't just go and type in breast cancer and get a whole bunch of information. But I went to the bookstore and I got Dr. Susan Love's breast book. And several other books on cancer, and read those, while I was interviewing these three surgeons. And then, I think, I was surprised about how I felt that I wanted to be led to the solution in a sort of spiritual way, rather than necessarily by data. So, I took a sail out on Lake Michigan at the time with the last book, and when I closed the page, I allowed myself to be in meditation. And that's when the treatment path that I wanted to choose came to me. So actually, when I was visiting those surgeons, I already knew what I wanted to have happen. K: And, can you describe what that was? A: Yes, I had decided that even though my cancer was stage one, that I did not want to have chemo or radiation. And so, the solution was a mastectomy—a radical mastectomy, and when I went to the surgeons with that solution, no one argued with me. I was surprised—my family argued with me, but my, but my surgeon said, “no, I think that's a good idea.” K: Yes, and radical mastectomy is not something we see very much anymore. That includes all of the lymph nodes? A: Exactly. K: Do you think that taking all the lymph nodes is what made them feel most comfortable with not doing chemo? A: I think so. I think so. Yes. And of the three surgeons I interviewed, the third one was the oldest and had been doing breast mastectomies for the longest time. And he did the lymph node dissection as well, and said to me, “you will live to be an old grandma.” So I took his prophecy to heart! K: Was that here in the Portland area? A: All of this was in Chicago. He was a surgeon at Rush Pres St. Luke's Hospital. K: So talk a little bit more about the stress that you were under from losing your mom and how you feel that's connected with, if it is connected with your diagnosis and the progression of your cancer. A: Yeah. There is something about grief that’s like being a drowning person and being taken under, I felt like I had been taken under by the grief of losing my mom at such a, a pivotal time in my mothering and in her life. She was 63. My parents had just retired. She loved life and she loved her grand-kids and I was looking forward to my children knowing my mother. And so there was this huge betrayal. A betrayal. You know, life is not fair. And my kids were six and ten when my mom died. And since, since that time and in my career as a pastor, I've met several women whose breast cancer diagnosis came on the heels of the death of their mothers. So there is something pretty significant to losing that primary connection of nurturing and then having something occur with the organs of our body that nurture. K: Yeah. So tell me about the second occurrence. How much later was that and what did that look like? A: After my surgery the first time, within a year or two, I was able to kind of put that in the background and live life fully. Uh, I mentioned ministry—the occurrence of the first cancer really also evoked in me a desire to change careers. So I chose ministry and went to seminary after the first occurrence, and I had a wonderful career of 20 years plus in ministry. And then I had retired in 2017 and moved to be near my daughter who had moved from Chicago to Portland. So, we relocated, and my daughter was a midwife in Portland, and so when I was establishing my care with doctors and, uh, other practitioners in the area, I relied on her to refer me to people. Before I left Chicago, I had had some interesting symptoms in that remaining breast. I had had some discharge from my nipple—clear, fluid, no pain, no blood. My primary care back then had cultured it. She had had me have the mammogram, the ultrasound, and eventually the MRI, none of which was conclusive for anything. So I arrived in Portland with this sort of lingering thing in the background, and my daughter, the midwife, said, mom, if I'm gonna refer you to anybody, I'm gonna send you to Amy Thurman. She's the most thorough imaging specialist in the Portland area. K: I know her too! That's, that's crazy because I was just thinking about her today. A: Yeah? And so I went to Amy's office and had my first mammogram and I expected to just skip away and they said, “um, we think you ought to come back and have an ultrasound.” So I said, "well, it's almost Thanksgiving. I think I'll go and do Thanksgiving things and come back." And I came back and the ultrasound was, “hmm, I think you better have a biopsy.” And every time I'm thinking to myself, okay, I can deal with this. And Dr. Thurman is incredibly thorough. So when she was doing the biopsy of the one spot that they had seen, With the ultrasound she said, “oh, there's another spot there and there's another spot there, so I'm gonna biopsy all of those,” and sure enough, there was a field of stage 1-B--both ductal and lobular. K: Oh! So lobular showed up that early—in the biopsy? A: Yes. Yes, K: Wow. A: Mm hmm. So, again I went into myself—I did consult with my Ob-GYN who said, “you know, we want you to get this taken care of and we'll give you as much support as you like.” And I said “I like to interview surgeons” and she said “fine, I'll give you the names of several” and so I was very supported by that. Dr. Thurman called me, my Ob-GYN kept calling me just to make sure I was okay, but I was doing my discernment process and I chose, again, to have a mastectomy. This time just with the sentinel node biopsy. And I interviewed a couple of surgeons, brought my daughter along, and my husband along to the appointments. And I chose the one who cried with us. Again, I think I let my heart lead. They both seemed like very competent surgeons. Lots of great experience. Wonderfully knowledgeable. But the one who cried with us is the one I went with. K: Beautiful. So I want to hear about the different procedures that you had—how did your body look after the first surgery, and then how does your body look now? A: The first surgery I went with I found, of course, the surgeon I wanted to work with. And he said to me, “Have you heard that you could have reconstruction?” And I said, “Of course I have, but I don't, I don't want anything foreign in my body.” And he said, “Oh, well, do you know about TRAM flap?” I'm like, “What's that?” And he said, “Oh, I have a plastic surgeon I work with who does wonderful work with TRAM flap. I'll introduce you to him and he can tell you more about it.” In the meantime, I, I did my reading on it. TRAM is short for transabdominal, abdominus recti-something. The M, I don't remember. And “FLAP” is that they take a piece of skin from your abdomen and graft it into the surgical site where they've removed the breast tissue. And so, it sounded perfect. They're using my body tissues. My abdominus recti which are the two long muscles that connect from your ribs down to your pubic bone. They are detached and moved under the skin up to a point in your pectoralis muscle. And they become the blood supply for then fat and skin that are grafted from your abdomen. And they explained to me, because they were removing the abdominus recti, which kind of hold in your belly stuff, that they would put a piece of mesh across my abdomen at the same time, that this would be major surgery. It would be done at the time of the mastectomy and then it would be about six hours of surgery, but they felt at my age and physical condition that I was a good candidate for that. And it so happened, the day they were performing the surgery on me, the mastectomy team came in and did their work, but the people who were supposed to do all the TRAM flap work were, residents and they were called away to a serious accident. And so they left me on the operating table, open, while they took care of what they needed to take care of. And then came and operated on me later. So I was under anesthesia for 10 hours and no one informed my husband. And so he was a basket case. And having understood that I'd be under for maybe five or six hours, uh, he just did not know what was happening. And that also required a five day hospital stay back then, so that they could assess how the grafts were doing and make sure I didn't develop any infections. Pretty heavy duty, uh, surgery. Not, not something to wink at. I don't think I had gotten the full impact of what that would be. The recovery was very painful because of the amount of movement of things in my abdomen and then about six months after the graft was firmly in place, I went back for a procedure to try and create a little nipple on the grafted skin that formed the breast platform. And then they tattooed an areola on that. It hasn't worked, that tattoo. It's faded on me twice. I've had it tattooed twice. It just fades. So, but I was very happy in spite of the long recovery from that—I was very happy with the result and lived a very comfortable life, comfortable in my body, able to wear bathing suits and I even developed the ability to do sit ups after they had taken my abdominus recti, for the 25 years that I lived with that. The second time around, I had the assessment again, but well, I had heard perhaps they could take tissue from my gluteus, my butt area and rebuild. But as the doctors described it, there was way too much uncertainty about whether they would be able to harvest enough tissue to match the previous reconstruction. And as I listened, I said, “you know what? I can live with a flat chest and a prosthesis, thank you.” So that is how I live now. I have the reconstructed breast, and I have a chest wall, and a nice silicone prosthesis that works most of the year. It's pretty hot in the summer, but most of the year it's great. K: How are the scars on your body after the TRAM flap procedure? Where are they? A: Thank you. Thank you for asking. Of course, because they're harvesting a lot of stuff from the abdomen, I have a big smile on my lower abdomen—actually had to have my belly button re-rerouted. So they, they took the tissue from where my belly button originally attaches in the abdominus area and punched a new hole for the belly button to come out. So there's the smile and the belly button. And then, on the breast itself, imagine an almond shape or an eye shaped incision with a graft of skin in there that came from my lower belly. Now, I had a lot of, uh, scarring from having babies on my lower belly. So now I have that tissue on my, on my breast. So it isn't perfect. It is by no means perfect. I don't think anyone looking at me naked would think that it's, that it's a real breast. But it has functioned as such under clothes for a long time. K: Were you pretty happy with it after you had the TRAM? A: Absolutely. Absolutely. Very happy with it. K: So the skin showing on the outside where they created the nipple, that is skin that was transplanted A: Yes. Yes. Um, after that surgery, about two, three months after the surgery, my doctor suggested, and I found a person who did myofacial massage. And they did a lot of work around the scar areas on the breast tissue, which was very helpful in getting back feeling. I actually can feel touch on the grafted skin. And she did a lot of work under my arm, where all the lymph nodes were removed as well. Because that can leave a lot of numbness, even painful, stretchy, stretchy fascia underneath there. So I would highly recommend to anyone to have some special massage after you have surgery cause I think it really helps restore feeling to the body. K: Was that a physical therapist? A: The person I saw was not a trained physical therapist. She was a myofacial massage specialist, but a physical therapist will do that. I know at Providence, where I had my surgery here, they have some people in their massage department, for cancer patients. I started to see someone after the second surgery, but then COVID locked everything down and I didn't have that opportunity. K: Do you have feeling in most of the tissue nowadays? Do you have your, your nerves grown back or is it still somewhat numb? A: And on the original. Yes, I still have feeling it's, it's quite functional. And on the new surgery side, there's still some, I have done my own kind of massage along the scar lines, to, to restore, to restore feeling, and it's been what, three years now? Almost four years. So, I feel pretty good in that area. K: And how do you feel the experience of being a young breast cancer survivor affected your vocation as a pastor and a mentor, spiritual mentor? A: Thank you… Huh, let's see. Lots of, there are lots of little areas I would point to where that was, where the experience of having cancer so young really was helpful to me. I, there were several members of my congregation, younger women, who were diagnosed and I think I was able to be with them very comfortably. During that process and to help them to claim their power, the power of choice about treatment and the power to choose life. I think a diagnosis at such a young age and where it came in my life after this period of depression could have really sent me back into, uh, into a dark place. But I think my spiritual life and my, also I had a woman pastor at the time and she was there with me, and a women's spiritual group. Uh, all of those things for support were really, really important, claiming parts of my spiritual tradition, to be able to lament and be angry and as well as hopeful and hopeful and happy. All those things were there and it was really important. K: Your kids were at the age where they're verbal but not as body-self-conscious as like a tween would be. Do you feel—I mean it's never a good thing for a child to have to experience their parent in a trauma state—but do you feel like it was something that taught them something about you and something about life and was there some good came out of it for them? A: That's a great question. My daughter is now 37 years old and she was six and seven during this ordeal with losing my mother and then with the breast cancer. It's very interesting, when I came home from the hospital after this major surgery I had several drain tubes still in my body tissues and I would dump them out in the sink and she wanted to watch that. She wanted to be part of that--help me with that. I think it helped to contribute to her vocational choice to be a medical practitioner. She is a midwife now. But there was another aspect of it that wasn't so great. And that was that she developed a fear at a very deep level, a nonverbal level, that she would lose her mother. Because here I had been through this grief over losing my mother, and then I had cancer and this major surgery. And, and it was, it was not verbal for her. And she only really uncovered it after I retired, moved out to Portland to be near her, and she was trying to get pregnant, and it wasn't happening. And she finally, through the help of some spiritual counselors, uncovered this deep fear that becoming a mother is connected to loss. And, after she was able to bring that to the surface, she was able to get pregnant and now has two children. Boy, that was a very deep and long process. K: Sure. And then she was able to help you identify the source of your disease in the end. That's amazing. She was able to lead you to that wise practitioner who could see more deeply and take more time, look more thoroughly. Do you feel like she gives herself a little credit for that in the end? A: I think she does. You know, she, she feels a little ambivalent because she would love not to have had to do that. But yes, I think she has been able to touch into the part of her that is a healer herself and to be with other women in ways that I think are much deeper than than just a midwife who catches a baby. K: I want to go back to a couple of the wise women that you've mentioned—Dr. Susan Love and her immense book on breast health—are there any memorable bits and pieces of that book that are still with you that you want to mention just to inspire others to go and get that book? A: I just think at the time, it was so helpful to have the possible treatments and survival statistics laid out in that book. That was so helpful to me because I think the first time you hear cancer, you hear, “Oh, I'm going to die.” And obviously we all are, at some point, but there can be lots and lots of life between a cancer diagnosis and death. And so I thought that was very helpful to see that breast cancer is not a death, a death notice. And to see lots of—lots of different options laid out in her book. Those were the things I remember most. K: The other wise woman that I'm thinking of, I don't want to skip over the opportunity to ask about the contrast in spirit--since... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/32418207

A Breast Cancer Terminology Primer 07/28/2024

A Breast Cancer Terminology Primer This week I've decided to define some terms that came up in my interview with April Stearns last Sunday, for the sake of those new to breast cancer culture. Hope this is useful to you! Transcript: Welcome back. Today, I'm going to be doing another one of my reflection episodes. This is going to be purely a reflection on the last episode. So if you haven't heard my interview with April Stearns from last Sunday, this episode may not be quite as useful to you, but it could be. This episode and episodes like it, where I'm defining terms--really, it's probably just going to happen in the first six months of the podcast because I'll run out of terms to define--but it's really there for those of you who would like to stay in the cancer community and become advocates and ambassadors and allies. For folks who want to learn the terminology, I just want to take some time and help you to do that in a way that's a little bit more relational. So I decided a few weeks ago that I just wanted to take a little bit more time and go in between my interviews--go through some of the terms and definitions that folks don't know at the beginning of their cancer journey. I'm assuming that most of my audience is at the beginning of your cancer journey. And that's what I'm getting on my YouTube following. I'm getting brand new folks who are diagnosed, so please indulge me in this. And if it's not useful to you, then absolutely skip or fast forward, and join me next week because I'll have another interview next week. But I want to just talk about a multitude of definitions that came up in my interview with April Stearns because April is a really solid, grounded, very connected member of the breast cancer community. She referred to a lot of concepts that may not be easily identified or understandable to others who are brand new to it. I'll go through them as quickly as I can, trying not to get off on too many rabbit trails here! The first one is NED. And that is an abbreviation for "no evidence of disease." It is a term that we talk about once we are through treatment and mastectomy or lumpectomy when the cancer is apparently gone from our bodies. This is a term that we've used probably in the last 20 years, instead of the phrase that we used to use, which was "in remission," and I am not going to pretend to understand why we made that change, or even really the complexity of the difference of those two phrases. I think they're pretty similar, really. "No evidence of disease" acknowledges that there probably still is some remnant of disease in our bodies, either circulating or not circulating, just kind of laying dormant. We're learning more and more if you're following the science of breast cancer, that there is this concept of dormancy that is a little bit frightening. It's, it's implying that there is a cancer cell or some cancer cells that are kind of "hiding out" and not waking up and then maybe able to wake up at some point. And so I think "no evidence of disease" is a phrase that's used to acknowledge that fact, that there may be disease in a body, but it's not showing itself by symptoms or certainly not visibly in scans or blood markers. Any kind of surveillance that we may be doing (which usually we're not doing after we've done all of our treatment or had our lumpectomy or mastectomy) but if we were to do, any kind of scans, if you do follow up mammograms, if you still have some breast tissue in there, then you're considered to be no evidence of disease until those scans show something. And then there's a similar term called "no evidence of active disease," so you're adding an A in before the D, and that is usually used in reference to a metastatic patient, so someone with stage four cancer that is considered to be chronic. Active disease is kind of the default for a metastatic cancer patient, but many, many times you will have the active disease and just stop, either in response to treatment or randomly just stop growing, and just sit there and not grow anymore. And that is kind of a signifier that there's a little bit of a respite time and you either continue with treatment or not continue with treatment, but there is a lack of growth happening. And so that is what is meant by no evidence of active disease as opposed to no evidence of disease. The next term is survivorship. This is a very broad and vague term that I'm sure has many different definitions depending on who you're talking to. So I will not pretend to know a universal definition of it or present that to you here. But the most broad way I can describe it is just the period of time in your life after which you have had no evidence of disease after having breast cancer. Survivorship is what follows breast cancer in a given patient's life. So it is all the time and all of the issues and quandaries and curiosities and frustrations, lifestyle modifications that come after breast cancer. When we're talking about survivorship, we're usually talking about a lifestyle change that happened to us that hasn't been reversed, hasn't been corrected or changed like medical menopause, like infertility, like, "How am I going to find out if I have breast cancer again when there's no good scan that can show me whether it's coming back until it's already back?"--those kinds of issues that come up after you've had breast cancer once and, you're just, you're, you're not back to normal yet. And that's Survivorship. Now, some women do go back to normal. Some women get cancer after they've hit menopause and they're not fertile anyway and they're not worried about recurrence and how they're going to track their likelihood of recurrence. And so those women are not concerned with survivorship. They don't identify as a survivor as strongly as the rest of us do. So survivorship is more of a term you'll hear used in the young community of survivors of breast cancer, because the younger we are, the more our life is altered by breast cancer in a permanent and unforgettable and maybe unresolvable way. And so survivorship is a term that has some negativity associated with it. It is not a term that we use. with a lightness or a sense of pride. Usually it is usually accompanied by grief. And that is my experience. That is not everyone's, but that is a loose definition just from my own perspective and experience of listening to other longer term survivors talk about their experience. I'm still a very early survivor, but I'm, I'm not shying away from educating others. As an advocate, because I'm an educator by nature, number one, and I do believe that early on in your journey is when you're the best at educating others who are new. So. I'm certainly not the expert, but I'm willing to educate because I just see the value of it so, so much. And speaking of young survivors, that's the next term that I wanted to define or attempt to define here today is young survivorship or the young survivors. You'll hear this referred to as more of a matter of pride and identity among folks who are diagnosed young with breast cancer. The word young is hard to define, and it definitely means different things to different people. I think that generally it is the case that. At least it's going to mean that you were in your 20s and 30s when you were diagnosed. And sometimes it will also include the next decade of being in your 40s when you were diagnosed. Almost always it's referring to the age of diagnosis and not your current age. But different organizations will have different parameters and boundaries around what they consider a young survivor. All I know is that Wildfire Magazine, which is the subject of our last interview, does define it by being in your 20s, 30s, or 40s when you were diagnosed and there's also a couple of other organizations that may define it differently. I have a local organization that does. It just says 20s and 30s, not 40s. There're some that go up to 45 and not 50. So it's a little bit loose and you, you kind of have to ask when you hear this, phrase in your community. If you're wondering if you are included in the group, you just kind of have to ask cause it's not always laid out. It refers to not just those people that are diagnosed young, but all of those issues that are specific to a young survivor. So an early menopause, that fertility issue, some of the, the stronger reaction to a lack of estrogen in your body. Even in menopause, we have some estrogen circulating that's created in the pituitary gland in the brain. Even if we don't have ovaries, there's some amount of estrogen that's circulating, and estrogen is such a healthy thing for our body. It's good for our heart. It's good for our brain. It's good for our skin and our vagina and all the things. And so when you take it away completely, which is what these drugs do--not just the anti-estrogen drugs, the endocrine therapy drugs-- but also chemotherapy drugs can really strip you of your ability to circulate estrogen. And it is such a stark contrast when you're young and you're not gently evolving into it the way we were meant to as we go into perimenopause and then menopause. So young survivors cling to each other because they're all experiencing these huge lifestyle and body transformation issues that are hard to resolve and really, I think they really induce a lot of anger and frustration in most of us. I do not count myself generally to be in that camp of young survivors because I was already really well through perimenopause when I got breast cancer or when it presented itself with symptoms. I was aware that it was in me, you know, 10 years prior when I was 40 and just entering perimenopause, but it didn't really come into my life in a way that needed to be addressed until I was almost 50. And so I'm right on the edge of being a young survivor and then not a young survivor. So hopefully that's helpful for folks. I definitely have a lot of empathy and interest in exploring the stories of young survivors on the podcast. Similarly, there's a phrase that we referred to in the last interview called "Medical Menopause," and that is just referring to the fact that you went through menopause in an unnatural way because of medication that you took, either chemotherapy or endocrine therapy, which is an anti estrogen drug, either tamoxifen or an aromatase inhibitor like Letrozole and Anastrozole. So medical menopause is medically induced menopause that happens very suddenly, causes extreme symptoms of menopause and can be really, really hard to grapple with. It's often the main thing that is being discussed and that women are comparing notes around on Facebook groups, for example, or support groups. So it is a huge topic of discussion. We will probably address it in at least half of the interviews that I sponsor here on the podcast. So it is something we will refer to a lot. And if you don't understand what that means, it could be confusing. It just means that you got menopause and usually irreversible menopause because of either the chemo that you took and or the endocrine therapy that you took because of your breast cancer. There's a phrase that we used in the last interview called "Recurrence" and I think most people know what this means, but just in case you don't, I don't want to make any assumptions. Recurrence is when your cancer comes back. In any kind of cancer, it's always called recurrence, and recurrence could be referring to another primary instance of cancer. So another cancer that grew from a baby seed just like your first one did separately from your first one, maybe in a whole different breast or a whole different part of your breast. Or it could be in the same area coming from the same cells that were able to circulate somehow and hide out somewhere in your body. So recurrence is just that general term we refer to as breast cancer coming back and there's a huge amount of fear of recurrence. And so the phrase "Fear of Recurrence" is a very, very common phrase in our vocabulary in the breast cancer community. And then we talked a little bit about this when I had Marquita on as a guest. The, concept of HER2 positivity, April referred to this and, she said that she had estrogen receptor negative and progesterone receptor negative, but HER2 positive cancer. And that is just another combination of those three factors, those three markers that we talked about. in a former episode, but I just want to reflect a little bit more on HER2, because there were a couple of things I didn't say about it in my reflection on Marquita's interview. And that is, HER2 status can really change. It can go back and forth, which is a little bit, maybe not as intuitive. Estrogen receptor status usually goes in the direction of negativity. We usually all start positive. And if you get metastatic occurrences and a lot of times that will go to negative status instead of positive status, where HER2 can go either direction it really can go can start negative which often does and it can go low or positive which is kind of on a gradient. So it's it's kind of a adaptable marker and you cannot ever take it for granted that your her2 status is going to stay the same over time. So if you have metastatic cancer, especially, you want to kind of watch your HER2 status, see if it develops into positivity or low status and then if it does, you can treat it with a drug. And there are a couple different drugs now that we treat it with and like April said, she was on Herceptin for 13 months, so a long time on it. But it is helpful because it gives us a way to treat that type of cancer and that marker. And then we have a couple of terms that are more referring to the type of closure that April got, which was a flat closure. And the two terms that we use, um, in the area of flat closure are "Aesthetic Flat Closure", and Goldilocks. Those are two terms that you may not be familiar with and they're really just referring to the way that either your breast surgeon or your plastic surgeon is closing you up after mastectomy if you're not getting an implant or a tram flap or diep flap procedure. So I'm just going to do some kind of light definition of these terms and a little bit of background. So aesthetic flat closure is a medical term now. It was not a medical term, I think five years ago, but it is now considered to be normative in the medical community and the surgical community. And it was fought hard for by those advocates that are fighting for women to be offered the option to not reconstruct after breast cancer, after mastectomy. And those that are very happy that they didn't get an implant and also those who did get implants, but who are, or were experiencing incidents of breast implant illness, which is a very common autoimmune disorder--a thing that happens when you put an implant into your body when you are prone to having autoimmune issues. So there are a lot of women who are very passionate after having their implants explanted--that every woman who steps into a surgeon's office should be offered and, educated about the option of aesthetic flat closure. The reason it's called aesthetic flat closure is that traditionally, if women didn't get implants, they were left with extra skin that just, really was uncomfortable, ugly, just kind of flaps of skin hanging out just in case they ever wanted an implant or because maybe because insurance didn't pay for it to be made tight and made aesthetic. But now insurance does pay for that. There are still a lot of women with extra skin and, a lot of times it will present in a way that it is interfering with movement and it is uncomfortable and, and a lot of women are very unhappy with that extra skin. So aesthetic flat closure is a way to ask for no extra skin--for your skin to be pulled tight against your body for there to be not extra skin "just in case" you decide someday that you want an implant. And there's a little bit of a tricky quality to aesthetic flat closure because what I've noticed and I've been kind of entrenched in this debate and this community for a number of months now, I've noticed that people refer to aesthetic flat closure when they're talking about two different things--either aesthetic flat closure without Goldilocks, without extra skin underneath to pad what would have been a hollow spot... So right here, if you're watching me on YouTube, I'm holding the spot where I'm missing a lot of bulk and there's a hollow spot right here. And if I had had a Goldilocks on that side, I would have skin under there that would pad that and make me less hollow. Make me a little more perfectly flat, instead of concave. And that would be called a Goldilocks. And sometimes a breast surgeon doesn't know how to do a Goldilocks. In fact, I think most of the time they don't. So you need a plastic surgeon to do that procedure. But a lot of times people will ask for a flat closure and what they mean is they want a Goldilocks. So they want actual flatness and we don't know until we take the breast tissue out how flat or how concave you would be. And so sometimes you kind of have to go into it with the allowance of hiring a plastic surgeon as part of your team to do that just in case you need that. And so flatness is not something you can really understand about yourself in advance of that surgery.... And sometimes you need a Goldilocks to even be flat so that you're not concave. Now, sometimes you have enough extra skin on your breast that you can also make yourself a mound. And that's what I did on my other side. So you can have a little bit of extra skin and you can have convexity, a tiny bit of a mound. And that's also called a Goldilocks and that is not called aesthetic flat closure. So there's a little bit of a kind of overlap in a gray area and everybody's body's different. So you can't really predict very well what your aesthetic flat closure will be or what it will look like in the end. You can hypothesize and say what your ideal is, and that's what every surgeon wants you to do, but you can't really know what it's going to look like until you get there. So, the main thing to know about Aesthetic Flat Closure is it's your right medically to ask for it and be given it. And that is really important because a lot of surgeons are biased in favor of providing extra skin, just in case, so leaving you with extra bulk "just in case" you "come to your senses" and want an implant and that is to, to a lot of us in the community is really offensive and condescending and medically wrong, unethical. So, I have a particular passion around this. And so I wanted to be sure and define it because it is kind of a confusing issue. The other issue is a lot of us have never heard of aesthetic flat closure. And so we don't know about it when we go into mastectomy. We hear about it later and it's too late to ask for it at the time when we learn about it once we're in the breast cancer community. But it is something that we're hoping we will be able to get out a little bit sooner and reach people before they hit the surgery table and be able to talk to their surgeon about ahead of time as an option. Hopefully surgeons will offer it as an option. That would be the best case scenario. So, and then Goldilocks, of course, we will save that topic for another episode. That's when you get a skin sparing mastectomy, and the skin is used to overlap itself underneath your breast mound, and depending on how much skin you have, you have a smaller or larger breast mound as a result. So we also kind of talked about the term progression, and that's another really obvious term--doesn't need much explanation. It just means when your cancer is growing. Usually progression is a term that's used when you have metastatic breast cancer. And so progression just means it's progressing or it's growing. So that's another term that you'll hear used pretty often in metastatic circles. I just... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/32317787

April Stearns - Telling Your Breast Cancer Story 07/21/2024

April Stearns - Telling Your Breast Cancer Story The work that April does at Wildfire Magazine has been one of my biggest comforts in breast cancer recovery, because the stories told by her writers provide comfort and solidarity. I see April as an activist on many levels but mostly for the themes that she chooses for her magazine. Themes like "Body: A Changing Landscape" and "Fertility" and "Identity and Aftermath". She is a wonderful curator of story. I'm so thrilled to be sharing a little more of hers on the podcast. Wildfire Magazine is at: April's other podcast interviews are here: Transcript: K: Today's guest is April Stearns, founder and editor of Wildfire Magazine. April has been a hero of mine for over a year now, and she was one of the first people in the breast cancer community that I discovered who really brought a lot of solace and healing in my own life when I was feeling super alone and isolated, and just not sure if I could access people that would relate to my story. So, April has a tradition of inviting breast cancer survivors to tell their stories in short essay form and she publishes them in a magazine that's a print and a digital magazine. It's called Wildfire Magazine. And she also has a podcast where the writers of those essays are reading their essays aloud on The Burn, which is the name of her podcast. April has 12 years, no evidence of disease at this point. And she's been in the breast cancer community from the beginning. So she's a veteran and super connected. She's done a number of other podcast interviews and I will mention them down in the show notes for you to look at and listen to because she has an amazing story. And today I want to ask her some questions that haven't been covered by other interviews. And I'm hoping to dig a little bit deeper. So I'll just tell you at the offset that April's diagnosis was hormone receptor negative and HER2 positive and she was stage three and she did take Herceptin, which is that HER2 growth factor receptor drug for 13 months, right, April? A: I did. K: The first thing that I want to ask you about is what happened less than a year after you were done with treatment. Um, you had a family member that was also diagnosed with cancer and it sounds like that changed your story quite a bit and kind of had a big decision to make. Can you tell us, start out by telling us a little bit about that story? A: Yeah, absolutely. So my dad was diagnosed with cancer, and for my whole family, that was a real big surprise. It was obviously surprising that I was diagnosed when I was, but even though my dad was—I think he was 61 when he was diagnosed. So even though he was more maybe in the age that we come to think of people being diagnosed with cancer, our family didn't have a history of cancer in that way. And so to first have me be diagnosed and then shortly thereafter him was a huge shock to our family. I think that the, the big thing was that once his diagnosis came, I knew immediately that I was going to be his caregiver. I didn't have any question about that, number one, because of my proximity to him compared to my brothers. I was just much closer to him. My mom had already passed away. It was obvious he was going to need care. And I had just been through it. You know, it felt like an opportunity to maybe give back to him some of the stuff that I had learned through my own experience. I was like a cancer baby. I had no idea what I didn't know yet, but I felt like I knew a lot and could help him with things like chemo side effects. The insurance stuff, you know, logistics around cooking, cleaning, just getting him where he needed to be and comfortable. And it felt really, really good. It suddenly felt like there was a reason why I had been diagnosed and I had a purpose to fulfill. And that was, I think, really helpful to my mental state at that time when I was just wondering, okay, what now? K: I've heard you tell part of this story and it sounded like you had a big crossroads at that point when you make the decision to care for your dad. A: Yeah, I think I was really grappling with the “should I stay in cancer land or not” question. And prior to my diagnosis, you know, I didn't have any connection to cancer and I had a completely different career. I was a conference producer. So when I got to be his caregiver and I got to give back in that way and come face to face with how much I didn't know in my own survivorship and how much support I still needed, even though I was, you know, NED and supposedly released to the wild by my care team, being able to care for him in that way, like I said, it gave me so much purpose. It made me feel like, okay, I really do want to stay in cancer land and try to help others. It feels good to me. And, um, I wanted to do that anyway I could. I remember my therapist really kind of feeling like, Hmm, is this the right choice for you? Are you sure? And I just felt like I have never been more sure of anything. Like I really need to find a way to, to try to give back. K: What was it like quitting your job at that point? A: You know, it ended up being easy. Um, my employer ended up not being as supportive the second time around when my dad's diagnosis came and really felt like, you know, we already did cancer with you. We already supported you through these 13 months, you know, from diagnosis to end of active treatment. He really wanted me to get back to quote unquote “normal.” And I also felt really guilty for the fact that I was at diminished capacity. I didn't know that going in. I don't think anyone really knows the exhaustion and, you know, chemo brain and all of that stuff that kind of comes with going through treatment. And so I was that person, um, in the chemo lounge on my computer, you know, trying so hard to meet deadlines and just keep working, working, working, working at nights, like all of it. And then when my dad's diagnosis came, I actually didn't ask to quit right away. I asked to go part time and that's when, you know, he threw up those, these big roadblocks for me and said, "you know, I don't think we can support you doing that. Isn't there anyone else?" And I was really turned off by that. It was offensive to me that he would ask that I had been working there for years and years. And so I just remember I worked from home. He was, you know, many States away and he kept me on the phone for over an hour. I was crying, I was pleading my case. And I remember my husband just coming and quietly opening my office door and mouthing to me, just hang up. You don't have to do this, just hang up. And so that's what I ended up doing. And, um, it ended up being the best thing. It's funny. I just recently in the last couple of years discovered a message from him on LinkedIn that I didn't even know was there from a year later asking me to come back and try it again. I'm actually kind of glad I didn't see it. Cause I probably. Would have, you know, I was a year into, you know, grieving my dad's passing, trying to figure out how to move forward. And I might've gone back at that point. And so I don't know, the universe saved me from that. And I didn't even know it was—it was waiting there. Something else was calling to me. And so I did something else instead. K: It sounds like your dad passed away pretty quickly. A: He did. He, it's interesting. He was, um, I think about five and a half months from diagnosis to passing. He had a few symptoms prior. So I would say, you know, he started being sick maybe in January of that year. That was 2014. And then he passed in September and was kind of eerie when I looked back and counted up how many days I literally got from him from diagnosis to his passing. And I literally spent a hundred days with him in that time. He wanted his weekends cancer free. So I didn't, I didn't go to his house on the weekends. He saved those for hiking and riding his Harley motorcycle and things like that. But Monday through Friday, eight to five, I was there with him and we got a hundred days and I think it was a, it was a real gift. I'm really glad I got to do that with him. K: Yeah. Yeah. I can relate. I had the same choice with my mom and it was absolutely no, no contest. I was, I was there for her as much as I needed (she needed) and I'm so glad that I had that opportunity. So while you were caring for your dad, what were your thoughts about future employment or vocation? Were you already dreaming up the magazine or did that come later? A: You know, I don't think I really had the mental space in that time that I was caring for him, and my story was complicated a little bit by the fact that my mom, as I said, had passed away and she died seven years before my dad and my dad had not moved her things out or done any kind of work after she died to kind of settle that part of, of our childhood home. And so after my dad passed, I had a real big job on my hands to kind of settle the estate, clean out the house. It was a big house and my parents had lived there for the 31 years that they were married. And so I think I just dove into that as a way of kind of dealing with my grief. I just needed to keep busy. And so it wasn't until the, it was about 18 months, I would say, until I was able to sell his house and have everything kind of buttoned up and put away. And it was in the last six months of that, that I think I started to really wonder what was next. And coincidentally, I ended up enrolling in a writing program, um, an expressive writing program in my town. It was an in-person thing, and I started going to it to deal with the grief of my dad passing, and also kind of coming face to face with my own survivorship and the survivor's guilt that I had around it, and the pain I was feeling that I didn't know was specific to not knowing anyone else diagnosed young. I didn't have any connection to the younger breast cancer community at that point. I think they were starting to form Facebook groups and maybe on Instagram, but social media was different, you know, 12 years ago, and I wasn't hooked into that. Perhaps I could have tried searching on something like Craigslist, but I just, it wasn't occurring to me that there might be a whole community out there because all through my experience of treatment, I saw no one else in my doctor's office or in the chemo lounge who was younger. So I think on some level, I literally thought I was the only one. And it was so painful to have questions around, you know, career, fertility, sex and intimacy, like all this stuff that was cropping up from like medical menopause and really feel like I had no one my age to turn to. I ended up in this writing class. Most of the other people in there were older women, like retirees who were now like wanting to write their memoirs. But there was one other young person I found out later she was about eight years younger than me. And she was dealing with breast cancer diagnosis. Hers was actually a recurrence, a metastatic recurrence. She had been originally diagnosed one year before me, also stage three. And then we both landed in this writing workshop. And it was so serendipitous, you know, I was going through this like grief and what next and I need community and there she was—we just became friends right away and it was through discussion with her that I realized: Number one, there's others out there. There has to be, if I just found one, you know, in my town. And number two, we could not stop comparing notes, texting questions. We were talking constantly. And so that was kind of where the magazine started to develop because I just thought she is a wealth of information to me. I could see that I was to her. And then I just pictured that, you know, blowing up across and I knew it wasn't going to be a book because I didn't have the answers. I didn't have anything to share. I just wanted to make a place where we could bring that collective information and help others feel less alone. And so that's kind of where it started to percolate. And also the fact that I have a journalism background and have been a writer and used writing as that healing tool. That’s also kind of why the magazine was the resource I wanted to create versus, you know, other resources that others have created. K: It's such a beautiful piece of art like I'll show it for those that are watching on YouTube I'll show some of the covers in a minute, but I wanted to ask: It sounds like, just hearing your story, it sounds like your dad's vocation of being a firefighter was a big thing part of the name, at least, of Wildfire Magazine and, uh, the imagery that you kind of present at the beginning of each podcast episode is that the cycle of nature and the tendency for a forest to catch fire, um, naturally can be a healing, even though it's a devastating process. Um, how did that, can you tell the story of how that kind of, happened and, and how your dad's spirit is, is alive maybe in the work that you're doing now? A: Yeah, absolutely. I love talking about this. Um, So I grew up with my dad being a volunteer fire, um, fighter in our area. I grew up in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Which was an area that was kind of unincorporated. And so in order to have fire protection, it was a volunteer led company. And it was something that my dad got involved with when he and my mom first bought their property up there, I think in 1975, maybe. And really soon after that, he became the chief of the volunteers. I think a little bit by default, cause you know, there wasn't a lot of hands on deck and he was passionate and he kind of grew with the role and learned it. So by day he was working at IBM down in Silicon Valley and by night and weekend, he was a volunteer fire fighter. And so I grew up in this culture of volunteerism and this culture of fire and there was a couple of big fire, um, you know, forest fires, wildfires as I was growing up. And so I saw the devastation. I saw how the community came together. And then I saw that process of regrowth afterward. And most recently in 2020, we had another forest fire here in the Santa Cruz area and so I'm constantly reminded of it again Just yesterday, in fact, my daughter and I were driving through what they call the burn scar, you know, which is like where the path of the fire is, and we live in an area where there's a diversity of trees, but the primary tree here is the redwood—the California redwood. And I learned as a young person, and now I'm seeing it, you know, literally happening that the redwoods are very resilient to fire and in fact need fire to unlock their seeds. And so driving through the burn scar, you can see all these brand new baby redwoods sprouting up and also the redwoods themselves—the mature ones—looked like they were devastated are completely fuzzed out with all this new growth that feels like they're going maybe through a new puberty which feels very like I can relate to that as you know in medical menopause, And so growing up in this culture of fire I just knew that there was two sides to that coin, you know, something very devastating happens, maybe loss of homes, loss of life potentially, what it can do for the forest can be really reinvigorating and can clear out all that brush and just make way for new life. And so after my dad passed away and I was starting to think about doing this magazine. I was really coming face to face with two sides of that coin. You know, he had passed and I was still living and I was getting clarity on what mattered to me and the life that I wanted to live and how I wanted to get back. And it felt like that forest floor, you know, I was both sad and seeing myself reemerge as something new with space to kind of see that grow. And so that's the message of the magazine I wanted to give is this honoring of the destruction, the trauma, the pain. Asking that question, you know, what, what comes next after that? And what will you, what will you create? What will you hone in on? I think. I guess I want to say to it's a little bit different than the silver lining message. I think we get in cancer. I've been really resistant to that. Um, it feels a little like toxic positivity, which to me doesn't mean that we don't need positive images. We just also need the real and we need the honesty and the space to be honest. And I think that's also what that kind of two sides of the of the forest fire also can, or it brings to mind for me as part of that metaphor. K: Yeah. I love that the magazine is a tribute to your dad in that way too. A: Me too. I'm, I'm honored to keep him alive in as many ways as I can. And he taught me so much about, you know, giving back and being part of community and taking leadership roles where possible. And, um, yeah, I, I know you'd be really proud of it and proud of me. K: You talked a little bit about the need to compare notes, um, being in the younger generation. So Wildfire is featuring writers that have been diagnosed prior to age 50, um, even if they are currently over age 50. And I made it just under the line, but I do identify with that generation that you're talking about who needs to not sweep things under the rug, not to just kind of go about their own lives as if cancer didn't happen. And, so I wanted to ask you a personal question about your journey that, um, is particularly of interest to me because I have found very few women to talk to in my recovery process who chose to be asymmetrical or to have, um, a single breast to go forward in life as a single breasted woman. Um, and so I really value your insight and your experience of 12 years being single breasted. I know I've heard you say in other interviews that you, there are elements to this that you did not expect and you didn't plan for and didn't even factor in. Uh, but I do want to hear kind of what your decision making process was. How did you know it was even an option? And how did you come to this as a way to go forward permanently? A: Yeah, I, so it's interesting, you know, when I'm, um, doing writing workshops with people, I am always bringing this idea of, you know, what is your unique story? And what was the lens through which you saw your cancer experience? Versus, you know, leaning on the diagnosis details or the treatment course. And so the example that I use in my workshops is the fact that everything that came after my diagnosis was through this idea/lens of how to get back to parenting my daughter as quickly as possible. So my story starts with a lump found one night while breastfeeding my daughter. I had to wean very quickly, almost overnight. I was in chemo within two weeks of my diagnosis. Like things moved incredibly fast partially because of the pathology, you know, the HER2, it was growing very fast. It was already in my lymph nodes at that point. Um, and the tumor was already seven centimeters also. And so I had a course of treatment that had me having chemo first. Some people have a mastectomy first. I had chemo first as a way of seeing, you know, if the chemo would even be effective on it was a good way for us to test, but also to shrink it so that I might have surgery choices. But for me, you know, living for six months, seven months in chemo with that tumor in my breast where I could feel it every day made me feel pretty certain that right off the bat I knew I wanted to have a mastectomy. It just felt like it was so big, so aggressive. It just for me personally didn't feel like a lumpectomy was going to be the right choice. Had it stayed as large, also, there wouldn't have been much breast material to work with. Um, you know, if they’d have had to cut around that, I got lucky and had a complete pathological response to my chemo, which was lucky. I don't know why or how, you know, sometimes there's just stories like that in the cancer space. And I got to be one of those. Um, but even still, I decided to have a mastectomy. And the reason I decided to have a single... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/32231592

Reflecting on Triple Negative and its Gray Areas 07/14/2024

Reflecting on Triple Negative and its Gray Areas This is a follow up podcast episode to last week's in which I spoke to my friend Marquita Bass about her triple negative breast cancer diagnosis. I felt there was a little more to say on this subject before moving on. Links: In the podcast, I promised to provide resources in the show notes for learning more about personalized medicine in breast cancer. Here are my favorite youtube video on this topic: I mentioned that there are a lot of emerging biomarkers now, and here's a link to a LBCA youtube video that lists them and the various tests that measure them. Biggest lists are at minutes 23 and 36 of this video: Dr. Jason Fung’s book Cancer Code is here: A brief video overview by Dr. Liz O’Riordan of the current state of affairs for TNBC: Transcript: Today's episode is going to be more educational in nature. I'm making a decision at this point in the podcast to be a little more intentional in my mission to help to educate and not just entertain. I feel like when I started this journey as a new breast cancer survivor and I would log in and listen to talks or podcasts or stories, a lot of stuff went over my head and I don't want to be that kind of podcast that just assumes people are going to go and find the right resources and educate themselves. I think for me, when I heard terms like even “Metastatic” or “Triple Negative,” the first few times I heard them, I was overwhelmed and I didn't feel like I could add those things to my plate. And I think if I had had someone that could explain them really simply and briefly, that it would have really helped me at the early part of my process to help define how much just very similar we all are. It's not that we're that different with different diagnoses. I think mostly we're the same and it's important to know that at the offset because then you don't feel isolated from other groups of survivors. So because of all that, I'm deciding to do a little halt, a little pause, and to stop and talk about some of the terms and definitions and ideas that Marquita and I briefly referred to in my last episode. So if you haven't heard that episode with Marquita, it's a lengthy one, but it's a really important one talking about triple negative breast cancer, I know most of my listeners and fans out there, at least from my YouTube following are brand new to this community. And, you know, necessarily so—there are people looking for information who need it desperately at the very beginning. And I don't want to be part of that elitist club of advocates who know everything and just kind of do that name dropping thing that's so irritating and requires you to go out and do your own research and find out what these things are that I'm talking about. So that's what this episode and maybe even a lot of future episodes will be for. I'm going to do some solo episodes just to keep folks a little bit more updated on some of the things we talk about in the interview episodes. So the things I want to talk about today are TNBC which is the abbreviated name that we give triple negative breast cancer, what it is and the risks that it poses and the ways that it makes it hard to live with this diagnosis… and talk a little bit about some of the lifestyle references that Marquita made about her decisions to change her diet and stress, levels as a way of treating potential recurrence... talk a little bit about our relationships with our oncologist because Marquita found such a wonderful one and yet she only had him for a few years. And then I’m going to talk a little bit about testing and I'm just going to show you some resources in the show notes about testing, because that could be a real rabbit hole that I don't want to go down because I'm not the expert. But the testing options, especially genomic testing, is becoming much more available, much more affordable, and there are so many elements that you can pursue in this area. It's kind of exciting. So let's start with talking about triple negative and what makes it unique. Because I think that this is really important to know the really basic stuff. So triple negative is referring to the three markers. The first two are hormone status, hormone receptor status, progesterone and estrogen. Estrogen being the key treatable one at this point in time. And then the third marker is referring to something called HER2, which is a protein, which also is at the cellular level. It's sitting on the cell, and it's a growth factor as well. I'm not going to go into growth factors. It's a real area of interest of mine, so it's hard not to. But I will refer you to my favorite kind of biology of cancer user handbook for patients, which is a cancer, not a breast cancer book, but it's brief—it's only 300 pages long and it's made for a patient to understand. It's made for an educated patient to understand. So, you know, if you've had some college science, you'll be able to understand it. Really, really important book, I think, for most cancer survivors to just look at your disease and understand it well and look at what you might be looking into more in the future if it comes back… And that is the book called Cancer Code by Jason Fung. Dr. Jason Fung just came out in 2020. It's very up to date. All very recent evidence, um, he shares a lot of scientific information, very much backed by science. It is not a hippy dippy, alternative book in any sense of the word. Although, Dr. Jason Fung is respected by integrative doctors as well as regular medical doctors. So he's right there in the middle of that integrative bridge or connection, which I love. So yeah, get that book if you're interested in the chapter on growth factors, because I think it's a really interesting thing to know about and we'll talk about it more in the podcast, I'm sure. But that HER2 factor, that HER2 marker is the third part of that trio that makes up triple negative. And the reason triple negative is so remarkable and it is talked about with kind of drama and hushed tones is that it is a little more rare. It is only 15 percent of breast cancer survivors that have triple negative. Very much—pretty much exactly the same amount as lobular patients—although only one percent of triple negative patients are Lobular patients. So they are mostly Ductal patients. You know, almost all of them are Ductal, in, in terms of the type of cancer. And as Marquita referred to, it is true that triple negative is a multifaceted disease. It is a subtype of breast cancer and it has its own subtypes. So, not every breast cancer survivor who is triple negative is going to have the same things true about their cancer. So, it is easy to make things black and white and categorize. And that is where we get in trouble with triple negative because not all of them are the same. Some of them are very aggressive. Some of them are not aggressive at all. Some of them are very treatable with chemo, as Marquita was saying, and, you know, a small minority of them are not as treatable with chemo. So it is a lot of gray area. It is not as scary as it is made out to be, especially in the early stages. As you can see by Marquita's testimony in her life, she has not been oppressed by this disease since her diagnosis. with it 12 years ago, because she had a non aggressive type and it was very early stage when she caught it. So she is among some of the, the most successful stories that you'll hear about TNBC. But another part of a successful story you'll hear about TNBC is that nowadays we treat it with adjuvant chemotherapy. So the clinicians will discuss taking chemo before having any kind of surgery, whether it's lumpectomy or mastectomy. And that wasn't always the case—probably not when Marquita was diagnosed 12 years ago. And because of that, we've been able to see evidence that chemo really does work very well with most TNBC patients. In fact, many of them get a pathological complete response, which means the chemo made their tumor disappear before they even got surgery. And when you wait to have surgery after chemo, you could see how effective the chemo was very, very well because you get to see the area of the breast tissue that the tumor used to live in and you can look at it under a microscope and see just how gone that cancer is. And TNBC is one of the cancers—the breast cancer types—that does respond really well in most cases to chemotherapy. And that's why it was so stunning to me to hear Marquita's story that she had declined chemo. When you hear her tell her story, if you haven't heard it yet, you'll understand that it does make sense because like I said, hers was non aggressive and it was very early stage. It was very small. It was the size of an M& M, a small M& M, not a peanut M& M! So she had a lot of reasons to take that risk and to be that guinea pig for the rest of us to see that it is possible for a TNBC client to live 12 years without any chemo, which I think is just a really remarkable story. And she did it with the blessing of her oncologist, by the way. So talking a little bit about the side effects of chemo, I think this is a topic that gets very overlooked and I'm so glad that Marquita brings it up. It is a very controversial. and very emotional topic. None of us want to take chemo. Many of us have to. There's just no choice. Two out of three of her doctors, well, three out of three of her doctors did recommend chemo and only one out of the three doctors, medical oncologists that she spoke to was willing to take her no for an answer and actually partnered with her in that decision making process, which I just think was the most beautiful part of her story. He was not afraid of her not taking chemo. In fact, he could see the value of her regret matrix. He presented her with a regret matrix, which I just loved, loved that part of her story. And that allowed her to make her decision with firmness and conviction and him to support her in that. And the reality is that chemo is not without costs. It has a lot of side effects. You know, just that the trauma of having poisoned yourself voluntarily, that takes a lot of recovery psychologically. And also the fact that you get a lot of support through chemo because you're going in and you're seeing clinicians, nurses, support people every day in some cases, every week in other cases. And then that support system drops off and that's traumatic too. So there's a lot of psychological issues with chemo and we'll talk more about that in the future, but I just want to be able to talk freely about some of these things that we take for granted about chemo that—especially with triple negative—it's always assumed to be a good idea to take chemo. And the science says that it isn't always necessary. And I'm just so excited that Marquita's written that down in her book. And people are reading that story because that part of the gray area needs to be shown light on a little bit more than it is. So talking a little bit about some of the lifestyle stuff that came up with Marquita: I'm a nutritionist. I became a nutritionist after my first two cancer scares. I had polyps in my uterus. I had, you know, a shadow in my left breast ten years ago or more maybe 11 now and I became a nutritionist because I thought, like many patients do, that nutrition is one of the things that can save you from cancer. Now in hindsight, I see that it is one of the lesser things—it's definitely a factor for sure—but I think that exercise is much stronger in terms of evidence—scientific evidence—to prevent and keep cancer at bay once you've had it. So, nutrition is, is a messy thing, even though I do guide people through their own particular nutrition plans on a weekly basis. I get a little bit scared when I hear patients saying that their doctor recommended a vegan or low fat diet. I just want to clarify that that is not scientifically proven and I, as a nutritionist who's recovering from cancer, do not have a low fat diet at all, and I do not have a vegan diet, especially because of my age. I'm entering menopause. People who are entering menopause, they need protein big time, and you can't get protein very well from non animal sources. So we do need to be careful about the quality of our protein. I will give that caveat. But then we talked about stress, and this is an area where Marquita and I do agree, and her doctor and I do agree. I think stress is becoming more and more scientifically validated as a huge, huge factor in the risk of any kind of cancer. Because, we have seen scientifically that stress, chronic stress especially, creates inflammation in the body and inflammation is a habitat where cancer thrives. So, stress, yes, probably a little bit more plausible as, something to work on, something to change your stress management. Just your busyness, just frantic-ness. As women especially, we tend to get pretty frantic, especially in certain times of our lives when we're caring for either children or elders. So yeah, I've worked a ton on that myself and I think it's made a huge difference. So that's my little lifestyle commentary. There will be much more. I love to talk about population based studies, and I will talk about one thing with triple negative on that level. I forgot to say a couple of things about triple negative that It hits some vulnerable populations the most. It hits African American and Hispanic communities or Latina communities the most, unfortunately, which are under-served by medical systems generally already. Also it is very common that it strikes younger women. And, so, younger women are more vulnerable because they have, you know, longer to live with this cancer once they're hit with it the first time. And then, thirdly, it is mostly coming toward women who have the BRCA mutation. So the mutation in their genetics that makes them less strong. BRCA is a strengthening gene. It is giving you more ammunition against cancer. So when you have a BRCA mutation, it is taking away from that strength. So BRCA is not a bad thing, but people with the mutation have a weakness. People with the BRCA mutation generally get triple negative breast cancer a little more often. Which can be a, a hopeful thing in the end because we've discovered a couple of drugs that can treat triple negative patients. Now that we know about BRCA, we can treat them with a BRCA therapy. So PARP inhibitors is the one main way that that happens. And then there's a new drug that can actually be given to triple negative patients when they have aggressive types of cancer. And that's called Keytruda. It does have a lot of side effects. It is a very new drug. It is something we're still learning about. But the lifestyle factor I wanted to talk about with regard to triple negative or TNBC patients is an environmental toxin called formaldehyde. There has been one really compelling population study. When I say population study, it means it's not a super conclusive or causal-proof kind of a study, but it does show that it's likely that, formaldehyde is a factor in a lot of triple negative patients. So a lot of them were probably exposed during the seventies and eighties when formaldehyde was used in building supplies. And that's with a couple of studies. main one was in Taiwan. So also could be a combination of formaldehyde and other toxins. People in Taiwan eat a lot of rice and rice can have a lot of metalo-estrogens. So, it could be a kind of a stacking of effects of environmental toxins in that case. But I thought that was interesting and I thought I would share that. Marquita and I talked about tests and breast cancer tests and the main one that we were referring to were, were, uh, a kind of test called genomic tests. And these are genetic tests, but they are different than the kind of genetic testing that we do as a breast cancer patient to find out if we have BRCA, for example. So genetic testing is looking at the genes that you've inherited from your parents and the genes that you carry all your life in all your cells. They're like a blueprint that you carry around and your cells just replicate that genetic pattern. Genomic testing is something that you're looking at in a particular part of your body, or in this case, a tumor that has been growing in your body. And genomic testing is a little more complex because the characteristics of your tumor in terms of the mutations and the genes can change. And so genomic testing is a little bit harder to get right, and the science is still being developed for it. It's not perfect with breast cancer. But there are some tools that we can viably use now, and I think that they show a lot of promise and I'm excited to tell people about them. The one that Marquita and I talked about specifically was Signatera, and that is one that requires a large enough tumor sample that you can kind of study the genes in your tumor. I myself did not have a large enough tumor sample to do Signatera, and I was heartbroken to find that out because I really wanted to be that guinea pig. Marquita and I talked about some of the tricky parts of testing, especially genomic testing, which allow you to find out a little more about your tumor and the cells in your blood that are floating around and then getting killed by your immune system, which are called circulating tumor cells. Finding out a little bit too much... it can be anxiety producing. And most patients probably, if they were fully educated about these tests, would choose not to, to get the test run because they can be really worrying. You can find out that you've got a high level of tumor count one day in your blood, and maybe the next day it would be low, and so you got worried for nothing. And after all, the immune system is blasting those little cells out of your bloodstream anyway, so they're not really that threatening. So it takes a lot of education to get a patient well informed enough to really appreciate what some of these tests will provide. And for that reason, they are usually only run on later stage or metastatic patients, and they're very useful in that case. They can really inform the choice of therapies, the drugs that you use to eradicate those later stage cancers, or at least tame them and get them down. So, for an early stage patient like myself or Marquita to take a Signatera test is a little different because we're not dealing with active, invasive, or threatening cancer. Our surgery got that taken care of. So we don't really need to be monitoring but some of us want to, and since Signatera is a test that has been shown to be viable and reliable, and clinicians really respect it, it's kind of tempting to find out what's going on in there. And so Marquita and I both are, are kind of on that edge, and I think she's deciding whether she's going to take it. Maybe I'll have her back to talk about whether she did take the test. Tumor markers are the other test that she and I talked about. I asked her if she was getting tumor markers run and she said no. And I am because I've insisted on it and that's because I saw how high my mom's tumor markers were right before she died of metastatic breast cancer. And I was pretty mad that nobody had run those tumor markers in the last couple of years to see that she was getting metastatic breast cancer. So that's kind of my, my reasoning for insisting on getting tumor markers. It's the same thing—it can provide a lot of anxiety unnecessarily if they are getting a little high, but they're not super high, what do you do? There's nothing you can do, like Marquita was saying. So I still want that information because my mom didn't get it and she could have known sooner that she was dying if she had gotten it. And so I'm a little bit biased in favor of tumor markers. I also have seen that because I have Lobular, or I did have Lobular cancer, I've seen Lobular patients talk about having no... /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/32052137

Triple Negative, Double Tricky! with Guest Marquita Bass 07/07/2024

A Breast Cancer Diary Reflection on Flat Denial 07/03/2024

A Breast Cancer Diary Reflection on Flat Denial Today I'm reflecting on how far I've come since my first mastectomy--the one in which I was denied flatness. Thanks for listening as I process my own anger and regret and allow them to officially become softer. Transcript: Welcome back. Today in episode three of the podcast, I just want to reflect a little bit on some of the themes that came out in episode two, where I interviewed my guest, Michaela Raes, the founder of Breast Cancer Confidence. Her project is based in imagery and photography, and it is all about confidence and body image after mastectomy and lumpectomy. And if you didn't catch that episode, be sure and listen to it after you listen to this one. I just want to talk about some of the main themes in my own journey, being around body reclamation and self image and body acceptance after my own botched mastectomy. Last November I made a YouTube video about the idea of flat denial. There's hundreds of women that ask to go flat after a mastectomy and are not granted that wish by their surgeon for many reasons--either the surgeon is in denial themselves about the ability of a woman to not want breasts or they're just not listening or they care more about their ability to express themselves in their "art" of reconstruction than they do about the woman and her ideas of what she might want. And of course, I was very upset. I was very angry for many months--well over a year--probably a year and a half after my first mastectomy, wherein my surgeon denied me the flatness that I asked for and the smoothness that I asked for. But I've started to stop being angry now and talking to Michaela last week was really helpful in seeing the progress that I've made. Also looking at the pictures that I had taken with her and Jolana here in the Portland area with some of my flat friends--I've got those pictures set as my screensaver on my computer now, and I've been looking at them a lot over the last few weeks and realizing that, you know, having a bunch of ladies with their shirts off and having no breasts and our arms around each other and being joyful together and celebrating our bodies is not something that most people would take naturally or lightly or, you know, most people would have to kind of think twice or think a long time to kind of process how that's even possible. I know I would have before I went through it. I think I have a lot more compassion now toward my surgeon, who not only denied me my flatness once, but actually twice. On my revision, which was a month after the mastectomy, I had margins that needed to be cleared. And I asked her again to take out the extra skin and the wrinkles, in my skin and make it flat and she seemed to be listening to me, but she again left a lump very intentionally wanting to make that into a nipple. I thought back in November when I made that YouTube video that I would be at some point sending a letter to my insurance company and asking them to defund her or demand the money that she was paid to be paid back to them because she was not granting me the informed consent or any kind of consent over my process and my body. And I was really upset about that. And now I'm so much more understanding and patient, I guess, with the process that this, this work, this activism that I'm doing needs to take time and allow for some movement and growth in other people's lives. Certainly in the surgeons that are trained to do aesthetic plastic surgery are trained to make breasts better overall, instead of taking them away. Of course there's a lot of change that needs to happen in this area and so I, I kind of think myself, would I rather get that surgeon's attention by complaining and threatening to remove money, which probably wouldn't happen in the end, especially with all this time that's passed--it's been a year and three quarters since the surgery. Or would I rather be able to strengthen myself and come out of my anger and into a place of compassion and write her a letter myself with an openness of heart and vulnerability and honesty and express to her how important it is for people like me to be heard by her in the future. I don't know that I would ever expect a reply from her, but I kind of think that might get her attention in a more effective way than making threats or filing complaints would. And so now I'm kind of thinking that that's where I'm going to land in this process of reclamation of my body. I have reclaimed my body from that spirit of theft, of, you know, just ignoring what I had to say, which is a huge injury in itself for a medical professional, but I'd like to go further and really affect change for her and for other surgeons like her by continuing to tell my story and talking to Michaela I think really helped me to do that. There was a point in the interview with Michaela where she said, you know, you might lose the choice that you thought you had. And that's definitely something that happened to me. I thought going into that first mastectomy that I was going to have a Goldilocks procedure, which would leave me with a small, tiny little mound. And then I told that surgeon that if I couldn't for some reason have that procedure that I wanted to be as flat and smooth as possible. I didn't know the term aesthetic flat closure at that time. It was too early in my research on these kinds of things. I didn't discover that term until later. And that's a huge regret for me. It's not something I could have controlled probably, but I do wish that I had more time to look into that. I was more concerned about the cancer than I was the closure and spending all of my free time researching the cancer itself because that was more important. So, I can't do anything about the regret of not learning about aesthetic flat closure. And I imagine that's probably not top on most women's minds. And that's why it's so important that we educate surgeons about this new preference. I think women historically had a preference to go flat because they just wanted to be done with it and not bother with extra surgeries. These days, I think the assumption is by most surgeons that women are going to want implants because they're paid for by insurance now, and they're easily done in a matter of hours and it makes them a lot of money. So it's kind of the obvious choice from a surgeon's perspective, but a lot of younger women especially nowadays just really want their health to be the priority and they don't want to bother with extra long surgeries and surgeries every 10 years to replace implants. So this isn't going away. This is a preference that is going to be here and I just have to wonder what the best way to educate surgeons would be, considering that they have all the power and don't really need to listen to us once they've done surgery on us. How can we go back to them and teach them in a way that they'll understand and listen? And how can we vote with our dollars and go and support surgeons that have listened to other women? These are questions that definitely aren't resolved for me. But they are a little bit more tangible and a little bit more within reach because my anger has slowly been diffusing over the last few months and I just... I'm so grateful that I got to have a chance to talk to Michaela and see that about myself. And so I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is having these kinds of thoughts. Did you have a really icky experience with your surgeon? And are you afraid to go back and talk to them about that and educate them so that they're better informed for women that they serve in the future, assuming that they do want to be better--that they are not necessarily ego maniacs or narcissists, which I'm sure some surgeons are, but we don't want to assume that they are. I certainly don't. I would rather assume that they want to learn, but it takes a lot of courage to write those letters and speak those words. Because the fear is that you won't be heard again. At least that's a fear for me. So this is just me writing in my diary asking for accountability around this. It's a process and it's definitely not at its end yet. But I wanted to share just some of my thoughts after talking to Michaela. It is a mystery to me still how much I can love and accept my body and that I actually appreciate it more than I did when it was fully whole, still breasted, still that kind of stereotypical woman shape. But I really appreciate it for what it's brought me through, even though I think that some of the photos that I post on Instagram of it, are pretty repulsive to other women and certainly to most men who can't even put themselves in my shoes. I understand that and I accept that, but I do still want to push that envelope and challenge--not necessarily the average woman, but challenge the average breast cancer survivor to think about the beauty of this option and the option to advocate for every possible choice after mastectomy, not just implants, as Michaela was saying in the interview last week. So that's all I've got for today, and I hope that you'll stay tuned for my next interview, which is coming up on Sunday with my friend Marquita talking about some unexpected changes in her treatment plan that happened 12 years ago when she was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer. I'll talk to you then. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/31992532

"You Are Whole" with Image Activist Michaela Raes 07/01/2024

"You Are Whole" with Image Activist Michaela Raes Whether you're flat or reconstructed, if you've had a mastectomy you have scars on your chest, and the natural tendency for most of us is to hide them. What happens when we encounter someone who isn't as interested in hiding? For me, it's been magic each time a person shows a lack of shame to those around her, and that's all Michaela is doing with her nonprofit, The Breast Cancer Confidence Project, starting with herself. This is one episode you'll want to watch on because the photos Michaela shared with me tell her story best. Listen in to hear Michaela's story of the transition from fear to confidence in her post-mastectomy story of healing through photography. Find full show notes at by going to . Breast Cancer Confidence can be found most easily on facebook and instagram by the same name. Stay tuned there to hear more about the upcoming photo book, You Are Whole, to be published later this year. Episode Transcript: K: Hey, everybody, this is Kathleen Moss and you're listening to a breast cancer diary. Today's guest is Michaela Raes president and co founder of Breast Cancer Confidence Project. She lives in the Finger Lakes region of New York, and she was one of the first women that I considered a role model to myself in the area of body positivity, uh, she did this by showing up on Instagram and sharing photographs of her body as it was changing after mastectomy. And this was before I had ever found a community of my own, or an example of sharing this in real life, sharing one's body after breast cancer. And so she made a profound impression on me. And then after that, after seeing those pictures, I learned that she was doing this for other women in the world and spreading the message of body positivity after mastectomy through the Breast Cancer Confidence Project. And just about a month ago, I got to meet Michaela in person. She traveled all the way to the West Coast here in Portland, where I live, and she did a photo shoot with her co founder. Jolana, and I met both of them and it was just such an honor to experience their project in person. So, today, I just want to ask Michaela some personal questions about her breast cancer journey and what brought her to this work of body positivity and in the realm of specifically of photography. So Michaela you shared these photos of yourself, these really stark, but also very beautiful and tastefully done photos of yourself in studio, studio quality photos, um, with the world and showed the different phases of your reconstruction just so beautifully. What inspired you to start this work with your own body and, and to do this for the rest of us? M: Well, first of all, I want to say, thank you for having me here. It was great meeting you last month as well. So it's really an honor to be here and discussing this with you. I would say really what led me to want to start this whole process was my. my internal struggles that I had with my body image being diagnosed at the age of 28. I was very young. I was recently divorced. I was newly single. And I was already feeling insecure about myself and my body. And then you get this completely unexpected news that you have breast cancer. And that just. totally rocks everything that you thought you knew about your body, right? And so then that also brought up a lot of questions for me at the time. What will my body look like? Will I ever feel comfortable in my body? Will I ever feel confident and sexy in my body? Well, will I ever feel comfortable around a man in my body after all of this? And then there was a lot of fear and a lot of panic. And I feel like a lot of what I found out there, I guess, didn't. Didn't really provide me that reassurance. All of the images that I would see looking on Google online, you know, at doctor's offices, it was just this very cold clinical representation of these are your options of what you'll look like. And you're being faced with all of these different, you know, choices that you have to make too these surgeries that you have to choose from these very extreme decisions. And you have no clue what any of that really means or what you would feel like with that. And then all you see is people that just are, are standing there and not looking very comfortable because it's this stiff standing against a wall for your doctor's office. So it was just really difficult for me to be going through that emotionally. On top of everything else too, right? As if we don't have enough things that we're dealing with to then have that on top of it. So after all of that, I am going through treatment and I start to realize that all of these things that I'm afraid of, all of these things that I thought were going to change the way that I felt about myself, about my body--I was still okay. And in fact, I was able to, you know, look at myself fighting through all of this and, and really see that my body was strong and it was, it was helping, you know, fight to fight this disease, right. And. I guess I, I was able to recognize that all of these things that I was afraid of did not need to scare me the way that they did. So I wanted to share that story with the world. Really, I just wanted to be able to show other women that they don't have to have that fear. And I felt like I had a really unique. opportunity in a way with the, just the way that my surgeries fell. It started off with, you know, planning to have to choose just one surgery timing wise, I had to go through a lumpectomy and then I had to go through all of my chemotherapy. And then I had to have my double mastectomy. I had delayed reconstruction. So I went through. pretty much all of these different phases that you could possibly fathom and to be able to show to somebody else who might be faced with similar dramatic decisions like that. That, at baseline, really was what I think I needed to give me that kickstart in my confidence to feel okay. And then to be going through treatment, like I said, I just see myself in this different way after rebuilding that confidence a little bit right before my first surgery was when we did my first photo shoot. K: So whose idea was it to sit down and take a photo at that early stage? Like, was it jolana's idea or was it your idea? Like, what made you think to do that? M: So I guess, at the time of my diagnosis, when I was faced with all of these insecurities about my body, I felt like I wanted to memorialize my body as I always had been, as I had always known I wanted to just have something to be able to remember what I looked like before everything changed. So that was really where it all started--I was just looking to have that first photo shoot and not really have anything beyond that. Again, I was afraid that I was not going to feel comfortable in my body that I was not going to feel confident ever again. So having that first photo shoot was just a way to show who I had been and then as I went through treatment. Everything just seemed to be not as terrifying as I thought it would be at first. Losing my hair wasn't this big deal. I was able to find ways to find silver linings through all of that. And I think that's really what also helped me to build up my confidence and feel comfortable. As I'm going through treatment, to want to go through more boudoir shoots, to then be able to capture what it looked like in every single stage of what I went through. K: At what point did you feel ready to share those with the world? Did it take you a while? M: It did take me quite a while, actually. After I think my It was after my mastectomy. To be honest with you, I think I was still under the influence of anesthesia when I really just decided I had the guts to just go ahead and put it all out there. So I think that gave me the little boost that I needed to really be able to put this out there. And. I'm, I'm glad that, that I did because it's been really, it's been really rewarding to see all of these different women like yourself who have really been impacted by this work and who have felt inspired and have felt empowered to, to love their bodies even through all of this. K: Yeah. What struck me was that I still have never seen anyone share. the expanders, like you shared the stage of your story where you still had expanders in, and I've heard them described and I've heard people talk about what they feel like, but I've never seen a body with expanders in and you know, breasts with expanders in that are uncovered. And. I think just the power and the connection probably between you and Jolana, it was so powerful because you have zero shame. You have zero self consciousness in those photos. You are truly self loving in your spirit. And that was powerful. Like just the combination of having that kind of raw representation of what was going on, but also the countenance that you had. And wow, it was, it was amazing. I'm sorry that this is an audio program because I'd love to be able to share. At the end of the YouTube version of this this podcast episode, we will definitely share these photos so that people can see them, but talk a little bit about how this morphed from just you sharing your body with the world into a project where you're inviting other women in to this invitation to share their bodies with the world. Well, I mean, really it, It was rewarding to be able to share my own experience and my own story, but I, that's not relatable to every woman that is out there either. My, my experience and my body is not every body that has been through this. Even beyond that inspiration part, I really wanted to be able to give those women that same experience that I did of having that opportunity to have a confidence boost for themselves as well, and to really learn to fall in love with their bodies again. Jolana is just fantastic. I can't imagine a better person to be working on this project and this organization with, she's just so encouraging and she really knows how to just cheer you on every step of the way and coaches you through it and makes you feel so comfortable. And I think that just the way that she approaches giving women this empowering experience is just a whole other part of what we've been able to offer by sharing this work with the rest of the world and traveling and visiting other survivors like yourself. K: So great. Yeah. And so rare. I think I personally was inspired by you and a couple of others that I discovered on Instagram to go and hire my own Boudoir photographer after my first mastectomy. I asked her to do this incredibly personal thing and do this project with me when she had never done anything like it before. She'd only photographed breasted, you know, whole women that had not been scarred in this area. And I was asking her a lot, I realize now! And I've been back to her because we did build a rapport in that. But that is a huge piece of it--just Jolana's comfort and her confidence in your beauty. So that's such a gift. And I know you guys share these photos both on Instagram and Facebook, right? M: Right. Yes. K: So, and you've come to a place where you've started--a couple of years ago--started asking women to share their stories along with photos in a kind of short, brief, short form way. Can you talk a little bit about your latest project you're working on an actual book like a physical publication now for the first time. And what is that going to look like? How are you going to marry it, it sounds like it's going to be photographs taken by Jolana only where the ones on Facebook and Instagram are like mine was taken by my own local boudoir photographer, but the book is going to be just Jolana's photography of women post mastectomy or post Lumpectomy also? M: also? Post lumpectomy... post mastectomy... post reconstruction... flat, without choosing reconstruction.... we're really looking to be able to show all of those different options that can be chosen. Because again, there's really, there's not a lot of information that is out there that is really encouraging or really shows you that you're going to. love your body after all of this, when you first get this diagnosis. So we just find it really empowering to be able to share all of these different stories from different women to remind survivors that you are whole after all of this, no matter what you choose. You are still beautiful. You're still yourself. You're still whole, and you can still feel comfortable regardless of which of these options that you choose. K: And that's the name of the book, right? You are whole? Is that the planned title? M: Yes. You are Whole is the name of the book. K: So how will you ask the women in the book to share their stories. Is it going to be a longer form, a page and a half or two page story, or is it still going to be kind of a brief short-form one, like it is in your Facebook posts and your Instagram posts? M: So we're asking for kind of free form, for women to share their stories about their confidence journeys and how they've learned to accept these changes that they've been through, what they've experienced along the way, what challenges they've run into and really how they've grown from all of this. Then we're using those words to help other women learn to, to recognize that this is not the terrifying thing that you think it's going to be when you first hear that diagnosis. K: So your intended audience is for women that are kind of just getting a diagnosis and, and facing this. M: That again was, was my experience. It's something I felt from the beginning, but also we want to help women who are in any stage of their journey. So if they're also still. Struggling with with their own confidence after what they've been through you know, there's, there's not a lot of representation out there in the media or things that, we see that really reinforces that there are women that look like us and they can still feel this way about their bodies. They can still want to love their bodies in this way. They can still look awesome like this. I think that's really the whole goal, is to be able to help anybody. Whether they're still going through it and when they have those decisions to make, or whether those decisions have already been made, and maybe we're just trying to make peace with, you know. K: I want to end with just a really personal question that I'm asking all of my guests and hopefully you have an answer for it. Hopefully it's not too personal and that is do you have any regrets? Or do you have anything that you really wish you would have known going into this experience that you didn't know, but you know now and you'd like to share with other women. M: The main thing that I wish I would have known early on is that all of, all of these insecurities that I faced at the beginning, these, these fears that were piled on top of the fears that we talked about in the beginning, you know, the, how am I going to feel about my body on top of "is this body going to live?" period. You know, there was no need to be adding that onto what's already a very scary situation. So I think, I wish I would have learned, you know, sooner that maybe that wasn't something that I needed to be afraid of, you know. In hindsight, there's probably a lot of different reasons why I had that experience, but at the end of the day it was pain that didn't really need to be had. It was mostly a, a fear that I had being 28, having my diagnosis and not knowing what my life is going to look like. Right. So it's not only a fear of, of how am I going to feel about my body? It's, it's a fear of: how are potential partners going to feel about my body too. Seeing the pictures that you would see at the doctor's office, it's just not people feeling that comfortable. So it's just this stiff torso is all you see, and then I feel like that also makes it really hard to choose anything but the thing that looks what we are most accustomed to which is some form of reconstruction... and I feel like that's a disservice as well. Because. there are so many complications that can be had with reconstruction as well. I think that there needs to be more out there that shows women that all of this can still look beautiful and natural and still, still feel comfortable and still feel like yourself. I was offered flat as an option. I feel like for me at the stage that I was at in my life, where I was at in my confidence, I didn't feel like, you know, I had any other choice. And I felt like if, I'm going to have to go through all of this, at least get me some boobs out of it. So I mean, it was, I guess, a lame consolation prize. It felt like, but I mean, no, really in all seriousness it felt like kind of a, a given decision. Like it didn't feel like there was any other decision. You asked what, is something that I wish I knew to begin with. I do wish that, that I had known this because you know, there, there are times that I'm just like, man, these things are so heavy. Like, why did I do this? And then there's you know, different little quirks about having silicone implants that are just, not the most fun thing either. So, you know, maybe I might've chosen something else. If I had known that I wouldn't necessarily need this to feel comfortable in my skin. Who knows? /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/31908762

Meet Host Kathleen Moss 06/30/2024

Meet Host Kathleen Moss Thanks for checking out my new podcast! This episode is a super short intro to my story just in case you haven't heard it before. Thanks for listening! -Kathleen Episode One Transcript: [00:00:00] June 26, 2024. Dear diary, Wait.... Are you my diary? My name is Kathleen Moss. Welcome to my podcast. You may know me from my YouTube channels, "Etrogen Diaries"; and "Seeking Deeper Health"; or maybe you found me through my Instagram account, @a.breast.cancer.diary. However you got here. I'm glad you made it. This podcast called "A Breast Cancer Diary"; is a new project that I'm hoping will last for many years. It's not going to be polished, professional, or even an entertaining podcast. Because to be honest, for me, recovering from breast cancer is mostly about finding ordinary people who can help me feel less crazy as I continue to make sense of what just happened to me and my mom. That's all I'm here to do, to help you feel less alone--less crazy for all the things that you've been worrying about. So at least for the first season, instead of inviting experts on, I'm inviting my friends and fellow advocates from the breast cancer community, who have unique experiences and can tell personal stories in their own informal language, without shame. This first season is really about our intuitive moments, moments when we surprise ourselves and do something really strange, but also freeing, like leaving the career that we've been picturing ourselves staying at for 20 or 40 more years, or posting a photo of our newly reconstructed breasts on Instagram just for solidarity sake, or saying no thanks to chemo or implants when we totally had planned to go through with them up until the last moment. This weekend will be my first anniversary of my second mastectomy on the right side and my final revision on the left. Talk about closure. I got some serious closure that day. That was a day I so looked forward to. I still can't believe how fortunate I was to have so many other breast cancer survivors supporting me that day, and week, and month. Instead of a funeral procession for my lost breasts, we made it into a celebration of life, recovery, and wellness. and helped me so much being a part of a community that celebrates chests of all shapes and sizes and symmetries. This last year has probably been one of the most painful and important years of my life. My dad's dementia finally dipped to a point that made it so that we were unable to care for him. Mom's breast cancer came back and then stole her from us, leaving me with little to do with my time and my heart. I started to pour myself into the work of breast cancer advocacy and awareness, and I've met so many amazing women along the way. I finally had the chance to get a tattoo on my concave side to cover the gnarly scars this spring. It makes me smile more readily when I look in the mirror. I'm still learning to really see myself and love my body more fully, but I already love it more fully than I did before cancer. This last month, I interviewed two of my favorite women from the group of superstar doulas who midwived me through this last couple of years, and I'll get to share two pieces of their stories soon in the podcast. But first, I want to share a little bit about who I am. I'm a 51 year old wife, mother, nutritionist, writer, and spiritual director who grew up in Portland, Oregon. I put myself through college, waitressing, and going to school part time for 8 years. My first romantic relationship was with a man who was a sociopath, so I didn't really date at all from age 25 to 37. His addictions weighed on me so much that I spent my first 10 years of work life working as a social worker in the foster care system, which was the place that he and his brother, another abuser of mine, got so messed up. I was 30 when I decided to adopt an older foster child as a single parent. And I did. My daughter was 9 when I got her and 10 when I adopted her. I had a spiritual community around me that was super solid and helped me take care of her well. When I was 38, I started online dating and I met my husband, who I married a year later, and we moved out to the country, where we still live, with just one of our kids still living with us. In my early forties, I had two cancer scares. One came through uterine polyps, and the second, a year later, showed up as a shadow on my breast ultrasound, which happened because I found a benign lump in my right breast. For eight years after that, I had ultrasounds on both my uterus and my breasts every six months. I became a nutritionist to try to influence my increased risk of cancer seven years ago, but all the removal of silver fillings, cheap meat, and processed foods from my diet could only go so far. And like so many women I've come to know, the stress of COVID is what I believe put me into the danger zone. I didn't ever feel a lump in my cancer torn breast, but my sweet body told me that there was something wrong by sending dead cancer cells out through my nipple in bloody discharge three years ago. That's when we started all the MRIs and biopsies, which at first showed nothing, probably because of my dense breasts. But eventually, I was diagnosed with DCIS, or precancer of the duct. After my single mastectomy for DCIS almost two years ago now, I was told that I also had been harboring invasive lobular breast cancer in that breast, but not enough of it that I had to have chemo or radiation. I only had a couple of millimeters of active cancer. I knew instinctively that implants weren't for me, so I had a plan to get a Goldilocks Mastectomy. But it turned out that my DCIS was in my skin by the time I had surgery, so I got a concave closure with a lump of extra skin that my surgeon wanted to turn into a nipple... even though I had told her that I didn't want a nipple. At the time of my first mastectomy, I felt really lonely. I started looking for a way to get into deeper community with survivors. I found that in the Flat community here on the West Coast. They not only helped me not to feel so alone in my struggle, but I also saw how much they were celebrating their bodies, which freed me up to let go of insecurity and self consciousness, which I never thought would be possible, especially six months after mastectomy. I found them on Instagram, and that's why I've been telling my own story, or what I've called my diary, on social media. I see it as a quick way to connect with women who desperately need this kind of support in a timely way. I never thought I'd be such a big fan of social media. Nowadays, I still do work for flat visibility, and for flat to be offered as an option after a mastectomy. But most of my advocacy work is around lobular cancer awareness, supporting a group of 50 advocates who are seeking to do local advocacy in their own communities with the help of the Lobular Breast Cancer Alliance. I mentioned that my mom also had breast cancer and died of it recently. This happened just four months ago, and I'm still processing the loss. It was just a month between diagnosis of her lung mets and her death. I'd been living with her about half of the time for the year prior to her death, so she left a huge hole that I'm still trying to figure out how to fill. Hopefully this new project will be a way to memorialize her, and a kind of tribute to her memory. Stay tuned for my first full length episode where I'll be interviewing one of the first women I found online who made me feel less isolated by sharing photos of her cancer torn body. Michaela Raes will be my guest on the next episode. I'll talk to you then. /episode/index/show/96f437a7-2512-4094-b0ba-6940cacb3acf/id/31908272

A Breast Cancer Diary with Kathleen Moss

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