My Friend Brenda, a True Survivor

This and next week I'll be interviewing some friends close to home. I live in Oregon Wine Country, and there are a few breast cancer survivors who live in my part of the woods that I've gotten close to over the past two years. Brenda is one. We talk just about every week and see each other monthly. She's been through so much, and she keeps going, relying mostly on her own strength. I was thrilled to be able to hand her the mic, as we sat in my living room together to record this episode. 

Transcript:

Today's my first in person interview. I have my friend Brenda Huff with me. She's a neighbor and my sidekick that I invite to all kinds of local events. We hang out together in person a lot and I thought I would have her here to my house for an interview for the podcast. And Brenda is a resident of Forest Grove, the town that's closest to where I live. And she is a former stay at home mom. Raising her kids, and she's also right now in recovery from a number of injuries and from homelessness. So she's had a bit of a rough time recently, but she's doing amazingly in recovering.

And so I, I really wanted to invite her to tell her story. She's a fellow flattie. She had stage three breast cancer, went straight to flat from a double mastectomy and, went through treatment with chemo. And did you have radiation? I can't remember. Yeah, you had radiation too. So, we live in the same community, have a lot of the same friends, and we're part of the same flat community called West Valley Flatties.

And so Brenda and I see each other a lot. And I wanted to ask her, in particular, about a part of her story that involves the early days of her being flat and being on chemo. And I think this is an important perspective because I tend to have a lot of folks on later in their journeys when they're very used to their new bodies and have, you know, adapted and are celebrating their new bodies.

But I think a lot of us, and Brenda included, have had a rough start at the beginning of kind of starting to accept the flatness and the change. And so I wanted to ask you first, Brenda, how did you decide to go flat? 

B:

Um, I wasn't sure about putting implants in there if they would fail me down the road. My surgeon had said something about it and he had asked me several times if I wanted the implants and I said no. I said I think I'll just hold off and I'll just be flat. 

K:

Okay, so it was kind of just your own intuition, your own feeling about what you needed. And did you have any fears about what you would look like when you first saw yourself in the mirror after that surgery?

B:

Yeah, I did. It was hard. It was really hard. But, um, sometimes I'll wear the prosthetics and then sometimes not, you know, but it's hard to go flat just for myself. And some, some of my friends that are in the flatties just go flat, you know, and they're fine with it. But me, I just still hesitant of it. So I just wear my fake ones.

K:

Yeah, no, that's that's great. I think for me, I have a fake one too because I have a small Goldilocks and then I have a little fake prosthetic that it kind of sticks on to my skin and I can wear it when I'm feeling uncomfortable and I feel like I wear it in the times when I'm feeling like all eyes are on me. Um, or maybe some eyes that I don't really know or trust maybe on me. But, um, yeah, I think it's, it's great to have that freedom to be like in your body and not putting the extra stuff on sometimes. And then on the days when you need to, then putting the extra stuff, the extra prosthetic on. I think that's awesome. And I, I think we should all feel the freedom to do that. 

B:

But then I have a little joke about that too, about wearing the prosthetics. Um, mine are just made of cotton, but I've gotten out to, outside of the house to get ready to go somewhere. And I'm walking down the street and I look down and one of my prosthetics is much lower than the other one and so it's like what do you do you do you turn around and pray nobody's looking because you're playing with your boobs, you know!

K:

Oh My goodness, yeah, so I have a story about that: this Christmas I was the one that hosted here at my home and I was running around and getting a little sweaty wearing my prosthetic and it's a stick on and I don't wear a bra with it and I had never worn it when I was getting really sweaty and running around like that and sat down to eat and about like 10 bites into my meal, it fell off into my lap and like, you know, I'm looking around the table to see if anyone's noticed.

Hopefully they didn't notice anything, right? I don't think they did, but oh my goodness. That's good. One of the pitfalls of wearing a prosthetic. 

B:

Very much so. We all have it when we are cancer survivors like this. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless you have implants. that are, you know, inside your skin, you don't have to worry so much, but even then I think there's some lopsidedness, some asymmetry that happens for everyone. So for everyone, even people that without cancer have one breast that is smaller than the other. 

K:

I've heard that. Yeah. That the majority of women have a breast. That's a little different or pointed in the wrong direction or whatever. So it's not just us, you know, it's other women out there too. Absolutely. Well, when I first met you, you shared a really poignant. Tear jerking story with me that's always kind of remained with me and um, I'm so honored that you trusted me with that story and you said that you would also trust the audience of the podcast with that, that hard story. And so I wondered if you would share that story here on the podcast. 

B:

Yes, um, that was a difficult time. seen the points in this, the staring and stuff like that, but never what I experienced. I lived in Tualatin and I went into Fred Meyers to do some grocery shopping and I could overhear a lady talking to her husband on the lines of, please do not say anything to that lady.

And, um, her husband never acknowledged her and, and she just kept saying, please don't do this. Please don't embarrass me. Please don't embarrass that woman. Please just let her be, you know. And he came up to me and he said, um, and I can't remember word for word what it is, but he was really rude to the point where, um, he says, women have hair.

Why don't you have hair? You look like a male. And that really hit. It hit home pretty good. Um, that lady was very upset. She tried to apologize up one side, down the other, and there was no going back from that. Um, she left her husband in that store and walked out without him. 

K:

Good. I'm glad that she did that.

B:

It's very hard because at that point I had no breasts. I had no hair. Yeah, I look like a man. I mean, it's gotten better, but You know, and a lot of the men were the ones that would point and stare, let alone the little kids. But I taught my kids, you don't point and stare. You know, but a lot of parents don't teach them that. And that's the hard part in here. 

K:

Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I know at that time you were really raw. You were still going through the treatment. You had no choice but to do your own grocery shopping. And so there wasn't, it wasn't like you could, you know, You know, put a prosthetic on or put a wig on, and that point you were struggling and, and struggling financially too, I imagine.

B:

Cancer is very expensive. I mean really it is because not a lot of the free wigs are out there and not a lot of the free prosthetic is out there. Um, I was very thankful for you because you were able to give me the swimmer prosthetics and those were fun and I really appreciate that very much because I really struggled with that too to even go to a pool because I have no breasts.

So that was the hard part and a lot of bathing suits require breasts in order to look presentable or whatever, but, and I still struggle with it, but I'm thankful that I got help with you and then I found out other communities and stuff out there that will help with breasts, you know, just the prosthetic ones, but yeah.

K:

So I remember when you and I first met the first day that we met and we'd been in touch a lot through Facebook and email and things like that prior because we were meeting because of the Komen walk in Portland at the zoo and you brought your own team and your team was really good at communicating with me as kind of the head of our larger team and a support group for yourself.

And you guys had made beautiful t shirts, um, I can't remember what they said, but something about supporting you, Brenda. And, um, I was just, I loved your energy and you were all dressed up in tutus and you matched and, I'll never forget, you were one of the first women I've ever seen take your shirt off in one of those breast cancer walks for the first time, and you know, experienced that novelty of sharing that intimate part of your body with the other breast cancer survivors around you.

Do you remember what that felt like on that day? 

B:

It was an emotional day , you know, I mean all around it was emotional. I got to meet new people and then I just felt like I'm here with them. I might as well experience it with them and that was a tearjerker but it felt good. It felt good to be around those women that look like me, feel like me, you know.

It was good. 

K:

Absolutely. I relate to that. I think I remember you saying, what the heck? And just taking your shirt off because you saw so many of us that had done so, that were a part of our team as the Oregon Flatties, I guess is what the name of our team or Stand Tall AFC was the sponsor. So you were joining us because you, you saw the solidarity already and you wanted to be a part of that solidarity.

B:

Yes, that's what it was. I wanted to be one of you. You know what I mean? So yeah, it felt good. I was hesitant, but it felt really good. I thought what the heck why not? Let's join them, you know, yeah, and you seemed pretty exhilarated afterwards. So it seemed like it was a good experience It was very good day.

Very good experience for me Um being with the flatties very good I mean like you and I have a close relationship and there's a few other women that I do talk to Um, but not the closeness that you and I have You know, and I just think if somebody else is going through the same thing as we are that you need to get hooked up with the flatties. 

K:

Yeah, it's been really amazing that first day that I met you.There were a dozen of us that had our shirts off and with power.

There was a lot of power that day This last October it was a little quieter There was a kind of a rival event in Bend a lot of the flatties were doing on Floating down the Deschutes River activity and so it was It's just you and I with our shirts off this last October and that felt pretty different.

Tell me what you remember about that experience. Just being the two of us. 

B:

That was kind of different because it was kind of more butterflies . You know what I mean? Because it was, like you said, just you and I there.

So that was more butterflies like, do we do this or do we hold off or, you know, so it was a little struggle. We did it, right? I mean, you know, we had to support, you know, us. It's colder too, I remember. It was really, yeah. So we didn't keep them off for very long. No, not very long at all, I'm telling you. It was, yeah.

K:

The year before was quite chilly because we did it earlier in the morning. It was really early! 

B:

Yep. Yeah, you know, but this one, yeah. And there were so many people. That was my part. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the year before, we had plenty of people, but this year seemed different. Like it was just a lot of people.

K:

And then another time, a strong memory for me with you was being a part of Danyel's photography studio and going through the Warrior Women portrait experience. That was so fun to be there just helping you, having fun with you, kind of playing in a playful way with photography and makeup and, and uh, Props in the photography studio tell the audience about that experience I haven't talked about that before but I hope to have Danyel on soon, but tell us what that was like for you? 

B:

I enjoyed that. You said something about let's go to Danyel's studio where she helps people kind of bring out their power, their warrior type thing.

And that was a blast. Just a blast. You helped me with makeup and wardrobe and stuff like that. And, and I did, I got to pick one final picture and that was amazing. Just amazing. I am going to probably next month blow it up, go get it blown up, but put it on the wall. That's me. You know, that is me. And it was an exciting, I mean, I love Danyel to death, you know, and I love you to death to be able to do that with me, really.

K:

So where are you going to put it in your home? 

B:

I think I'm going to put it right in the living room when everybody walks in, that's what they're going to see. Because that's me, you know, I mean, big and out there, you know, as much as you can. The cancer. Yeah. The emotional. Part of it comes later, you know in the evening and stuff, but that's the hard part, but I'm doing it.

K:

I want to hear more about that. But before we move on from the photo, tell us what the photo looks like? 

B:

The photo I am got like a black outfit on and the green and blue makeup that was on was Beautiful. That's what Danyel did and I love that makeup and then I have like um I think it's flames or yeah, I think it's flames coming out of my hands for like fire type thing, you know, I think so.

K:

Yeah, she added that in as a special effect post production, I think. Yeah, she added it in when I went and looked at the pictures and I told her, I said, I like that pose, but I like the fire with the other one. Can you put it together? And then that's when she said yes. So for those of you watching on YouTube, I'll put a picture of Brenda in that, um, in that pose. Yes. With Danyel in her studio.I thought that was amazing. Yeah, it was a good day.

K:

It was. Yeah. So you had talked about some of the emotional side of adapting to this change in your body and still recovering from cancer and some of those emotions come more in the evening? 

B:

Yeah, they come more in the evening when it's downtime. It's thinking about what's going on and stuff like that. Um, I'm single, so I live by myself. And so that's a struggle at night. 

K:

Do you have things that you do to get yourself through those hard times? 

B:

Um, yeah, I do a lot of crafts. Um, I enjoy doing stuff with silk flowers and doing different craft ideas. And, you know, generally I just give them away. But, you know, it's fun and it keeps my mind, you know, keeps all that away. So, yeah. 

K:

That's another thing that we're planning on doing actually later this week is doing some crocheting together with Danyel as part of a local breast cancer support group. So, that'll be fun. Learning how to crochet. I have never learned before, so. 

B:

I remember a very good story. Yeah. And it was kind of funny at the end. Um, you and I went to dinner, um, with the other group, um, I can't remember what they're called. But. Oh, with Best Friends. Yeah. We went to that restaurant thing and then we stopped by New Seasons on the way back. Oh, yeah. Do you remember? I remember. And, uh, yeah. We got ice cream. Do you remember that? We ate that pint of ice cream in the car before we went home. 

K:

Because we hadn't had dessert. 

B:

Yes, because we didn't have dessert in the restaurant. 

K:

I remember that. Yeah, and you told me a lot of your life story at that time when we were sitting in the car eating our pint of ice cream.

B:

I think that's where we really got to know each other was over that pint of ice cream. Yeah, good memories. Yeah. Yeah. 

K:

Well, I want to hear kind of the contrast between the woman who was standing in Fred Meyer that day getting bullied and harassed by that gentleman (or non gentleman!) and the woman who's sitting next to me right now and, and how you think differently about your body, how you defend your body in your own mind, to your own self and your demons. If that comes up, if there's any shame that comes up, how do you deal with it these days? 

B:

Um, cancer is very, very hard. The treatments are very hard on cancer. It's to kill it. I get that. But it changes a person from head to toe, big time. And I've had to grow a backbone really.

I've had to grow almost armor because I'll still get the comments, you know, not as severe as they were before. Um, but my attitude's totally changed and it's almost like you put a barrier up. Um, I don't know. I guess that has a lot to do with that, you know, I'm single and whatnot. So, I don't have that other partner to really, you know, cry on or whatever.

But, I struggle with the brain part of it, with the chemo. Um, about that I know I want to say something and does it come out right? Not really. Or, um, it gets jumbled up in my head and it just doesn't come out at all.

And I really struggle with the memory part of it. But You know, um, I've just gotten a lot stronger, I think, and, and I have friends to lean on. Um, back then I really didn't. You knew who your friends were and who they weren't. Um, and so I've grown closer to a few, you know, and I'm sitting next to a wonderful one right now that all I have to do is call if I have questions. And that's what you've said all along. And that's what everybody needs that is coming into, you know, dealing with the. The treatments and stuff of cancer is they need somebody that, that's already been through something to be able to talk to.

K:

Well, Brenda, what do you say to, or what would you say to a brand new cancer patient who's just facing mastectomy and treatment today, um, with all the wisdom that you've gained in the last few years since your experience, what would you, what are some of the key pieces of advice you wish you had known back then?

B:

To put your armor on. Don't listen to what they have to say. Um, when you would see people staring or pointing, just let it go. Just let it out of your mind. Just don't listen. Um, and get yourself a coach or somebody to talk to. Um, I didn't have the coach or the friends or the flatties until after I was pretty much done with my treatments and stuff.

I wish I would have had that throughout the whole thing because those women have already been through what I went through. Just hook up with somebody you can talk to besides your family. You know, besides the normal friends that you see on a regular basis, get with somebody that has already been through what you're going through.

It will help a lot. 

K:

I so agree with that. It made all the difference for me, too. I think we need, we feel like we need to kind of buckle down and just handle it. It's not so bad. Other people go through this, too. My case isn't the worst case. But, until you get with the others that have been through what you're going through, you You don't really see just how much you really are going through.

B:

Yes, yes. And how much you have to deal with on a regular basis. You know, it is a lot to take in. Cancer is not a game, you know, cancer knows no age, no sex, no color . It does what it needs to do and it wants to prevent you from breathing, you know, really, and you have to be strong and do what you need to do to survive.

K:

Yeah. If you see someone in Fred Meyer who looks similarly without breasts and without hair, what is your inclination nowadays? Do you have, I mean, you probably haven't had that experience, but if you do, what do you think that you would say to that woman? 

B:

I'd go up to that woman and say, you look beautiful as ever. You're amazing. You're, you're a survivor. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that we can say that to each other. I wish we, I wish I had that back then. I wish I had the coat of armor on. I wish I had that, but I didn't. But I guess I needed to go through that to get to this point. But women are beautiful regardless if they have breast hair, whatever, they're beautiful.

K:

Amen to that. Yes. Do you remember how you found the flat community? Is it on Facebook? 

B:

I believe I found it on Facebook. Um, I can't remember who I was talking to. I was talking to somebody from a different little group. Oregon Breast Cancer Support Group. Maybe that's what it was. Maybe that's what it was.

K:

That's where I met you I think. 

B:

Okay. That's probably what it was and that's how we, because I investigated a couple other ones too and I thought, no, I, I like this one, you know, so yeah, but yeah, I think that's where it came from. And don't get me wrong. There's a lot of places out there. There's a lot of little support groups. So if the flatties didn't work out, then, you know, there was other ones out there, but I'm glad that I was able to keep in contact with you guys. Yeah. Yeah, there's so many little niches within the breast cancer community There's triple negative. There's lobular like me, you know, and then the way that we look afterwards the you know, flatties versus You know people who have had To explant that's another you know, special group people that understand going through having their hopes up about having new breasts and then their new breasts not working out for them.

K:

So I feel like we connect around those little minority margin experiences. 

B:

Because us women that are in the flatties have a little bit of this and a little bit of that. So we kind of have all those different little groups in there. You know what I mean? 

K:

Yep. Yeah. Well, thanks Brenda for being here. Thank you so much.

I just want to say that I'm proud of the woman that you are today. You're taking such good care of yourself and advocating for yourself and being alone. It's hard to do that. 

B:

I know it is. It's a struggle. But I'm just thankful to have you as a friend. So thank you so much and thank you for doing this. I figured that I have, I got cancer for a reason. I got a cancer so that I could teach somebody and hopefully this podcast will teach somebody what I went through and maybe they won't have to do the same thing. 

K:

Yeah. Yeah. Don't stay alone. If you're isolating, um, reach out and find a group and. Find a way to connect with people in person. I think that's really good, really good advice. I'm so glad that you're just down the street from me. 

B:

I know, me too. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you.