Unexpected Outcomes and Showing our Scars

This episode's guest is Christina Miner, host of Our Scars Speak Podcast. Today Christina shares about her experience with capsular contracture and her openness in sharing her scars publicly. 

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Christina's interview with Women's Health is here

Transcript:

 Today's guest is Christina Miner from Our Scars Speak. Christina is a fellow flat advocate who's also in my Mastermind with my former guest, April Stears of Wildfire Magazine we're co advocates in the breast ca cancer space in many different areas, both podcasters, so we learn from each other sometimes on a monthly basis with April and some other breast cancer entrepreneurs in our mastermind. And I've been learning more about Christina, listening to her podcast, have so much in common with her, and I'm thrilled to have her today. Welcome Christina.

C:

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. And it's so funny when you came to me and asked me, would I be a part of this? I was like, ABSOLUTELY! Cause unbeknownst to you. I had followed you and your story about DC is and things of that nature and how things that you found out and you didn't know. And I was like, wow, and it was just so powerful and enlightening to hear you share your story on. I think it was YouTube that I found you!

K:

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

C:

It's been a while ago, but I was like, oh, and I used to always think about you and just like, I hope she's okay.

K:

Aww. Thank you.

Yeah, when you share the raw stuff on YouTube, you kind of leave people hanging, and then YouTube doesn't show them the follow up video that says, I'm doing great. So it's kind of frustrating sometimes, but. Thank you for following me. I had no idea. So you live in Prince George, Virginia, on the other side of the country from me, and you are a counselor and working towards doing a master's in counseling and becoming a clinical therapist.

And up until now, you've been also, you've been doing life transition coaching with individuals as well. Is that mostly online?

C:

Mostly I do have some clients that have been around town that really have gone through, you know, like newly diagnosed with breast cancer. So yeah, or either they're starting a new business and mental health. So I do consultations and coaching and I call it transitional coaching because it's usually at a transition of life. And a lot of people are like, let's just get to the raw meat of what's happening. But I'm like, okay, we're going to get to that and we're going to do that. But how's it affecting all aspects of your life? Not just this one term, like how's it affecting going to potentially affect your health, your family, you know, your social life. So I try to make for sure their wellness is also encapsulated with just with the problem or the newness of a new venture that they're having. So, yes, I do transitional coaching and I do qualified mental health. I'm a qualified mental health professional, which is someone who goes in the home to do case management sometimes with various clients in Virginia.

Okay. So you work for the state right now. Or you did.

C:

Usually it's private organizations.

K:

Okay, cool. Okay. And what are you hoping to do once you have your master's? Are you going to branch into anything new?

C:

Yes. Well, not really new—I've done it before. It's just, I wasn't licensed at the time. Before breast cancer, I also was a partner in a mental health agency, a community based program. after breast cancer, I kind of, you know how it can be kind of stressful and you just like, you didn't, I didn't want to manage anyone.

I just wanted to relax for a little bit. So that's when I said, you know what, during this time, I'm just going to see which direction I want to go. And I was like, I talked to my partner and I was like, maybe I'll. Go ahead and just get a license in counseling and become a therapist. And so that's how I went in that direction, all for the hopes of one day having a wellness center where I want to be able to just like, not just therapy. Everybody doesn't want therapy all the time. So there's a lot of holistic things that people love to embrace when they're going through life period. Not just necessarily something that has happened to them, but. As you know, because I know you really, you know, you love various holistic things, yoga, you know, um, Pilates, uh, mindfulness meditation. So I want to have a wellness program, but I will probably just start out with the outpatient therapy, um, center first and then start incorporating all the other holistic aspects to it.

K:

Wow. I have had a similar dream, actually. When I first met my friend and mentor, Marlena Murphy, who passed this last year from stage four breast cancer. She was so inspiring to me because she worked in a place like that, like what you're describing, and I'd never heard of it before. It was a breast cancer patient-centric clinic that served folks not only in mental health, but also in massage therapy, physical therapy, nutrition, which is my thing. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that is such a great business model. So I'll have to talk to you more about that, that center that she worked in and it's in Georgia. So it's not super close to either one of us, but maybe we can meet there someday and do a little tour.

C:

Because honestly, when I was in one of my classes for career counseling, I came up with another idea to add to it. We had to think of this model of what, what would you do if you, you know, it had to be something different. So I'm not going to do a wellness center. Let me add something else. And something that stuck out to me and reminded me when you were speaking a lot of times when we are getting, you know, acclimated with life after or during our treatment or after our treatments. people change professions, and sometimes people want to change professions or go back to their profession and they just cannot their acclimation to society. Everything is just different because we've gone through this traumatic experience. And so I've seen where there's an absolute need to help people into what they want to do now, because now their perspective may have changed. You may want to do a whole different course far as career.

K:

Yeah. I relate to that. I can never go back to the me that I was before breast cancer as much as other people do and they have no problem doing that. I just can't somehow. So, well, let's talk a little bit about your experience, with your, your diagnosis and treatment. You had like me, your main diagnosis was DCIS, which is a pre cancer and the ductal areas is kind of what they're thinking. And, um, you had an expander placed because you had decided to get a double mastectomy and implants. Tell me the story of how that expander changed your life. What was that like?

C:

Wow! So with with the DCIS, you know, of course, I chose a double mastectomy and For various reasons. I just I was trying to avoid all Treatment for as radiation not to say that I never would do anything like that But it was just up for me and what I knew I was facing. I was trying to avoid all that meanwhile I was like well, I don't know, maybe I could get a little bit of my life back so maybe I'll do reconstruction.

Flat was given to me as an option. I must say by my doctor as one of the first options, she was like, you can go flat or you could, and then she started riddling off everything else. And I was like, okay. And I had never really heard a flat, you know, like aesthetic flat closure or just that period as being an option. I was just blown away that because a lot of people don't get that from their doctors.

So she asked me about, um, you know, I could get expanders and then I could get… What was it? The gummy, I think was the gummy implants afterwards, um, after my skin expanded back out. So I was like, okay. So I asked her about the material of the expanders and she was like, it's the same material as the implant, except for I'm going to inject saline in it for your, um, when you come in here every so often. to expand it to the size that you want. And I was like, okay. So did that. But soon right after surgery, I was just sick, constantly. I had a temperature of 103 for the first three days after surgery. Um, didn't know why, but it went away. But then I had a low grade of 99. 9 all the way up until I got the expanders taken out. Um, I had a rash. Every time I ate, as soon as I put it in my mouth, it came right back out. Um, but I didn't have stomach cramps, but it was just like, as soon as I ate, it just came out and then I had headaches. I started having headaches. I started being fatigued. I started having sweats. my joints were aching and then I would try to walk and it was like, to get up, I was like having difficulty. Um, as if I had like arthritis riddled body completely, it was just a lot of different symptoms that I had at one time.

So I was, my first thought after probably about a week of having, um, after the surgery, I'm like, “what is trying to kill me?” Because. It just, it got worse and worse every day. So on top of that, I started noticing that the side where the cancer was, the expander was looking like it was pushing out. It was like growing. And I was like, okay, I haven't had a fill this week. It shouldn't do this. But as you know, during, after my surgery, COVID hit, so I couldn't go to the doctor anymore. I had to stop, but I was fine with it because I was at the point where I didn't want any more fills anyway. And every time that I was going, when I was telling her how bad. I was hurting and how sick I was. And she was asking, questioning me about the temperature. She was like, you know, I said, well, maybe then I, I was just feeling terrible. Like everything you can imagine. She's like, “are you coming down with something?” And she was thinking COVID. I was “no, not that I know of I've been home.” So I had all those issues. Now I couldn't see her and now all of a sudden this left side is starting to contort, starting to turn black. it looked like I had cigarette burns on my skin. It looked like the expander was coming out my chest when I was turning. I could hear the slushing of the saline in my chest. It was an absolute nightmare and then it started happening on the right side. But not as prominent, but it was happening. So I'm telling her all these different things and she's like, okay, maybe you have an infection. She's trying to look at me on camera. She couldn't really see some of the things I was talking about. And sometimes the camera would fail. It was just a mess.

So finally when I went in to see her, she was like, cause she couldn't at that point, she really couldn't see everything. Cause it hadn't, it wasn't as bad, but the day of surgery, I was like, well, can we just go ahead and do the surgery? So the day of surgery, looked at me. Well, I'll take that back. We had another appointment in between surgery and the day of surgery. And she said, “Oh my goodness, you must have breast implant illness. I think you may have breast implant illness.” And I said, what is that? And so she was telling me how like the body can reject the material of the implants. Um, I said, of course I Googled and I was like, “oh, you think I'm losing my mind?” Cause a lot of doctors associated with, um, some, a mental disorder, you know, like, oh, that it's just, it's in their mind. And she was like, “no, I believe my patients. She said, you got about every symptom here.” Um. So she said, well, let's see how you do with, you know, the implants. the day of surgery, she said, but I don't know if you're going to do that well, because if you're having this reaction, she said, but maybe I could, she said there was different types and stuff. And I was like, okay, I said, well, I don't know if I want to do that. She said, well, we don't have to. She said, but I'm thinking that might be it. She said, but I don't know for sure. So that's kind of how she worded it. So the day of surgery though, at this point, Everything was twisted. Everything was about to pop out my chest. And she looked at me and she's like, you have capsular contracture. it's the highest one, the highest level, so what do you want me to do? Do you want me to do an implant or do you want me not? I said, look, at this point I'm trusting God in you. And that's all I know to trust because I'm going to be sleep. I said, and I've never gone through this before, so I don't know that you possibly could do while you're in there. I tell it, she said, well, you're kind of leaving this kind of vague. I said, okay, then if you think that I'm damaged severely, do not put nothing in me.
Leave me flat and that's it. So I woke up, she tapped me on the shoulder. She said, you're flat. She said, and I will never put an implant in your body. She said, because you were damaged that bad I had lost a layer of skin. So when she went in for the depth perception, the implant was busted and it popped open, going all over her assistant and everything. And she said, I was one of the worst cases she had seen with the hapser contractor and the breast implant illness. So after that, I came home like that same day, I felt so much better.

And then when I came to my first appointment, she's like, you look night and day and my temperature dropped. So that’s what the expanders did for me. So I didn't make it to the end point.

K:

Wow. That is an extreme case. That is definitely the most extreme case of a bad response to, well, it's not even an implant. It's just the pre implant that I've ever heard. Did you have a known autoimmune disorder before that or anything you are aware of?

C:

Not to my knowledge, I do not. Now, is it to say, that I do and I just don't know because,
diseases. It takes them forever to figure it out. Um, but not to my knowledge. I've never been diagnosed with like sick a cell or lupus or anything far as that. So, said, she said, you know, you may have an underlying autoimmune disorder. She said, it may just be that your body just does not like the material. was thinking, I had other things, you know, like I've had knee surgery. I've had, you know, um, root canals, you know, just thinking of things that I may have placed in my body before and I've never had it. That was the worst had ever experienced in my life. It was worse than the actual cancer.

K:

So you had how long to get ready for the possibility that you might wake up flat? How long did you have to process that?

C:

Um, that day, like right before I went into surgery, because, because of everything that was going on with COVID, it wasn't like I had this great workup, prior to, because the doctor's office was closed. You're on a camera that, you know, they didn't really use that prior to, so they're trying to figure it out.
I'm trying to figure it out from my end. So the video wasn't always quality. Um, and then, yeah, I couldn't go into the doctor's office till like, I think, like I said, I've had, I had those two appointments.
The one in between the surgery and the one prior to that, but that, that was it.

Basically right before surgery, she came in and taught me for an hour. She just sat there with me. I was her first case after COVID. So, well, you know, once they opened the doors for us to get surgery and I, she was trying to get me in prior because I kept on telling her, like, it's going to fall out. It's going to fall out. She’s like I cannot get you in. And I was like, but why? I was like, this is like an emergency. She said that she had even taken the initiative to call the insurance companies and call, you know, talk to the hospital and they all said it was cosmetic. And I'm like, excuse me, like, I didn't just wake up one day and say, I want to alter my body and I want implants today. It was because of cancer, why I went this route. So how is that deemed? I said, I get why they say cosmetic because it's an implant, but I don't understand why it wasn't—it was nothing that I elected to do because of just wanting to. I because of something that happened to me out of my control.

K:

I imagine that's probably just that there was no category to put it in. And so it had to fall into that next closest category, which is not okay. Yeah. That's, that's frustrating.

C:

Because even if it was elective, if somebody's telling you this is falling out my chest. I did have a friend, her implant fell out in her shower during COVID they got her in, but it's like, why does it have to get to that point? Because now it's a risk of infection really bad because I'm at home. So, yeah, but. Yeah, that day of surgery, she sat with me for an hour and, um, I remember it was her first surgery and coming back from COVID and they got their vaccine. No, tested that morning for COVID vaccine had come out, but they had got tested that morning for COVID, which was like the first test, I guess, that they had had.

So they were all talking, you know, it was just, a whirlwind of events, but she sat there with me for an hour. And went over to various things and she said, well, if you do go black, then what we'll do, we could later talk about other, you know, um, if you want to do other revisions or anything of that nature, but I just, I was tired at that point after I woke up had to realize I'm black. So, no, I just had maybe we talked about it for about 15 minutes and it really wasn't talking because. I had her kind of going in there blindly. Like “you figure it out because I don't know what you're about to go into and you're the professional.” She was like, that's not fair. I said, no, but I don't know.

I don't know. And this was so unexpected. And with COVID I couldn't come in and down and have, I said, you've already had a conversation with me about different routes I could go. I said, and this just, please use your best judgment.

K:

So, did you have a choice as to whether or not to leave some extra skin or to have a tight closure or did you talk about that?

C:

So because I put her in that kind of gray area what she did was primarily flat and she left a little bit of dog ears on the sid—not much, but she left some. She was like you can go back and we can do a revision. She said but I'm not putting an implant in you ever again in life She's like nothing even remotely close to an implant. Um, and she talked about you know, like fat grafting and different things like that. She did not do DIEP flap because she's like the surgery is like too long, she just doesn't do it, but she'll give me a referral. So she went over those options with me and she, she said her reasoning for leaving was because in case I woke up and she said, you know what, maybe I do want to try this, that, or the third.

She said, if you want to try an implant, feel free, you just gonna have to go to somebody else. But she did leave a little bit of skin back for that reason, but that was only because I left her in a very gray area with my decision and I understood why she said, now I can go and take that off. Said it would be another surgery. I hate to put you through it. She said, but because you left me kind of in this gray area, that’s what I did.

K:

And you didn't go back. How did you feel about being flat? Like, were you ready for that or was it really shocking and traumatic?

C:

I would say that—I don't know what, what has always spun out to me with this whole thing was just hearing the day that I got the diagnosis and hearing the word carcinoma. Um, ductal didn't matter in situ. I didn't care about any of that. It was just carcinoma. So, I used to work in the medical field and I used to work with this one doctor whose idea was if you got cancer, be as proactive as possible because it's a disease that's one of the worst, you know, like it, When it comes back, if it comes back, it can come back with the vengeance.

So his thing is do the best way, do whatever you can first to eradicate it versus kind of like taking a little bit and that was his. No offense to anyone out there who's against that, I'm not trying to say that's what you should do, but when he spoke with me, that always stuck in my head. So, that being said, when I woke up flat, I took it as the cancer's gone, to my knowledge, you know, and I don't feel bad.

Like, I was so sick from breast implant illness and the capsular contractor that even though, because even before that, I had already lost my breasts. My breasts would never be the same no matter how much plastic surgery they gave me, so I already felt there was that void there of not being who I once was, right?

So with that being said, when I became flat, it was almost like, so I had, you know, I went and get my, um, prosthetics and stuff and people were like, okay, you can wear your prosthetics. That'll help you make you feel better. And I said, you know what? No, I want to embrace who I am now and I'm flat and that's who I am. Now, do I have moments where I see people in bathing suits or certain dresses? And I'm like, “Ugh”. Yes. I do have those moments. I allow myself to be in those moments. But I don't dwell in those moments because to me, I'm alive. So because I'm alive, I'm going to talk about whatever I need to talk about to help other people. And it gave me almost like a sense of confidence that I never had to walk around flat. And I know sometimes people look at me weird, probably like, “she a boy, she a girl?”, or whatever the case may be. But I'm okay with that still because they don't know my story, but Hey, if you want to use it as a way to get to know me, we can talk about what happened to me.

And so I kind of, I use it now to the advantage of sharing with people about flat aesthetic, aesthetic, closure, and also about cancer in general, um, breast cancer. But yeah, at first it was, you know, it was like, okay, this is my new, this is my new me. A part of who I am now. She did what I asked her to do,
and I told her, I said, I'm trusting God and you.

And I, and I believe in that wholeheartedly that she did because she said, while she had me open, huh, I could do this to maybe counteract the reaction. But she said, Nope, I'm gonna leave her flat. And I'm glad she did because if I would have had to go back, I would have probably been upset. But, um, so no, so I'm, I'm grateful. I embrace my decision. When I woke up, I was like, “Oh, okay.” And that's exactly what I did. I was like, okay. And then when I felt so much better, I was like, woo. And then I did try to prosthetics a couple of times and I'm like, no, then I was like, I go back to work. Should I wear them? Or should I just be flat? You know, cause I could walk around with them one and nobody ever know nothing. And I was like: “no, I'm not, not me.” And it's not to say that I won't ever wear a prosthetic or ever get some type of reconstruction far as take, you know, going a little bit more aesthetic, um, flat closure. But the point that I'm trying to make is that I am allowing myself to accept me for me because there was a time, even with breasts, I was not very confident. I had very low self esteem and very low self worth because of things that had happened to me. as a child.

Then eventually I got out of that and I said that stuff is not going to define me, but I still had issues with image. Even when I was skinny and healthy and athletic and this, that, and the third, I still had issues with image. And I was like, I'm not going to allow that to put me in a place of depression for the rest of my life. I'm going to take control over this. And so that's what I did.

K:

I am so impressed with your surgeon being so educated on breast implant illness, being so responsive and saying right away that I'm not even going to put an implant in you. That is, that's something you don't hear about very often. A lot of times, like you said, when you look it up online, surgeons will blame the patient and say that it's the patient's problem and it's all in their head. So it's great to hear an antithesis to that narrative of “it's all in your head.” Um, I mean, obviously this was an extreme case. You couldn't really deny it. It was right there in her face, but still she was so respectful of you and responsive as she could be during COVID.

C:

Yeah, because I knew nothing about breast implant illness until she said something. I had never heard of it.

K:

Yeah. Yeah. And how, how would you, yeah, it's a pretty obscure thing unless you've been in the breast cancer community for a while and then you hear about it. Well, tell me the story of Our Scars Speak. I know there's a story behind the name of your podcast.

C:

There is a story. Um, so I, after, you know, breast cancer going flat, all those things, I ended up joining the first group I joined was, uh, Here for the Girls and it's an organization in Williamsburg. And I ended up being a co facilitator, very involved with them. And then also I had joined, um, Stand Tall Aesthetic Flat Closure. Well, when I had joined Actually, they found me first because they wanted me to post a photo of myself on their Instagram. So I was like, sure, I'll take it. It's fine. And, um, so then from there, it was Renee and Kim. Um, Renee and Kim came to me. Renee Ridgely? Okay. And then Kim Bowles, right?

Yep. Um, the one from Stand Tall, which is Renee, and then Kim is from “not putting on a shirt”. So they came to me like, “Hey, would you be interested in doing an article with women's health magazine?” Well, when they told me, I was like, sure. But then I thought, well, is it the real women's health magazine?

Or is it like, Some, some other magazine that I'd never heard of. the editor contacted me long story short. And, uh, I did this art, I did this spread of women's health mag. Well, it was in, it wasn't in the mag, the paper version, it was online. So they thought they were just going to put me like down below, like somewhere about the health, you know, like a health article, click on, they didn't real, my editor didn't realize they were going to feature it on the very front for like the whole issue. So they wanted to do a photo, you know, with me with my shirt on or not, you know, it was up to me. And I was like, I had prayed about it. I was like, Oh, should I, should I not? And then I was like, no, yes, people need to see this. Right. So I ended up, um, I said, I'm gonna do this. So they said, well, would you, we can find you a photographer around and I was like, no, I want to come to New York. I want the whole experience because I knew they had more, um, their photographers. They were probably a little bit more educated on what they wanted as far as what they were trying to capture the ones that they worked with. So they allowed me to come to New York.

And I remember the day of the photo shoot, I was standing in the mirror and I said, Oh my God. scars speak. So that stayed in my head all day long. And we did the photo shoot and I was like, wow, this is, this possibly could be a big thing for a lot of people to see who are going through or getting ready to make a decision of going flat or have to go flat. So I came back home, I was on the plane and I was writing out, I made a poem called my scars speak and it just went through my head. Like my scars speak, um, sadness, my scars speak pain, my scars…. It's just this long poem that I wrote about from the time that I found out I had breast cancer to the time that it was no longer in my body. And so many people were like, “Oh my God, I can relate to this. This is exactly how I felt.” But then from there, I was like, no, our scars speak. So that's how that title came about. And then I was like, okay, what am I to do at this? Once again, cause I'm a true believer. I prayed about it and I was like, what am I going to do?

And it's like that whole weekend I was getting downloads of just everything. Like this is who you need to have up there. And so it's breast cancer, survivors, thrivers, metavivers, previvers that I have to come on. It'll be their caregivers that can come on and, you know, there's a vetting process professionals that work within the breast cancer community, those who can educate us that are doctors, a tattoo artist. I've had various people attorneys. I just want them to share. Some of them have their own personal story so they can share their story. Or they can share how they got into the breast cancer community. Cause I want people to know how, you know, something about them and that they're just not out here trying to get money from people, but how did they get involved and what’s their why to being a part of this community? And so I have various people on to share their stories and I love it. I love it. I love it. I love doing it. It was going to be just the IG live and then it just spilled over into the podcast world. Um, so yeah, so that's how that all came about through that one article.

K:

Wow. So the women's health magazine article, what was the kind of the punchline of that or the headline of that? What, what was the interview like?

C:

I’m trying to remember the actual title name, but I know that it was all about being flat. Why I chose not to be, why I chose, and it states it in there about why I didn't choose reconstruction, and why I decided to go flat. So it's about my journey of the breast implant illness and the capsular contractor and the acceptance of being flat.

K:

Okay. So that was a really big. voice that you had to tell the world about breast implant illness. Did you feel like that was a powerful statement?

C:

Yeah, I felt it was because some people are like, oh, aren't you excited? I'm like it's my mission. So for me, when I have what I call assignments, I, I, I do them so I don't get too caught up and even, “Oh, this is huge.” Like, and maybe that's wrong with me because sometimes you do need to celebrate things, but I get caught up in, this is something that I've been placed here to do. I need to do it and I need to see it to the end. Um, and so that's how I took that assignment. Like, this is something that could really, really benefit other people. Not just me being out there showing my chest. Um, scars from that, the scars from having children, hysterectomy scars. Like it's not just. It wasn't just that for me.

It wasn't about, I didn't feel it was about me. Yes. It’s my story, but I felt my story was a vehicle to help other people who felt that they couldn't speak or who had a, you know, they're at a crossroads about making a decision. And I always say this, but it also spoke to the people who are no longer here, who can no longer speak. Who have transitioned into heaven or wherever they are, right? So those people still have a voice. So everything that I do is not just for me, it's for everybody. Cause I'm like, wow, who may not even have anyone in their family who have breast cancer may see that picture and go back and read the article. who knows? Maybe down the line? Somebody in their family have breast cancer and then who knows, maybe, you know, so I always look at the bigger picture and then this year had no clue. This happened in 2022. I had no clue they were going to repost it on their, um, on their Instagram. So the first time they posted, it was like a lot of likes and stuff, but not that many shares, but this time it was a ton of shares. So that even made me happier because it's like, okay, our voices are being spread even further now.

K:

Did you share it on your personal, like, actual in person relationship Facebook account? (Yes) Okay, okay. So let's talk about that because I also, um, have shared my bare chest publicly and I have not shared my bare chest, um, except maybe in a very different way. with like a hundred other women, um, on my, on my personal Facebook account with people I've known my whole life and having grown up in the church. My dad was a Baptist minister, um, very similar, I think, to your background in terms of like having a lot of personal contacts who are Christian and maybe even conservative Christian.

Um, how does that hit? Like, how do people respond to you and how do you grapple with some of the misunderstandings that may naturally happen when Christian women are getting up and showing their bare skin of their chest?

C:

So I, you know, when I said I had to pray about the whole article thing, that was part of it. Like, okay, am I, I was like, I have nothing to show really. It's just a flash, but I'm like, I know how people can perceive it. Like you're still being, you know, indecent. Right. So I, I have learned because I have ministered in prisons and everywhere. I learned early on, I was always kind of considered a little rebel in a way. Um but at the end of the day, I have to live with the decisions that I make. Meaning if I feel that it doesn't bring me peace, not just in my Christina, just being Christina, but like in my heart, what I call my spirit, if I feel like it doesn't bring me peace, then I'm not going to do it. If I feel like it brings me peace and I feel like. Okay. I prayed and I feel like God is really leading me to do this. I don't care what nobody says I'm doing it. Everything that I do. I mean, not everything, of course, but the majority of things that I do Always try to make sure that I really pray about it before I move on.

Is it a state that I get it all right? absolutely not because I get a lot of wrong, I really really try to be sensitive to that I walk in my faith with God and what he would call me to do not just what I want to do because me being who I am, I probably would I've done that. Would I've shown that I'm overweight?

Cause I always told God, he had a sense of humor. I was going to be a model years ago. He told me I was too short. They said I had all the other characteristics without skinny. I had long hair, blah, blah, blah. And I said, Oh, so you wait till I'm overweight and have no breasts. I am modeling everywhere. No, it's just like, it's just, to me it's like a sense of humor. So you know I’m like, okay, but I'm willing. So because of that, always remind myself. At one point I used to abuse substances and I used to abuse alcohol, right? So because I had gone through a lot of trauma in my childhood and the reason why I'm saying this is because of how I am now. I made a vow that Once I stopped everything I was doing I was functioning. But once I stopped that, once he allowed me, help me to get through that. I would always share what he wanted me to share because my story is not my own. So because of that, even if I feel like, you know what, they're going to judge me, they're going to have so much to say. They're going to say, I'm not walking by faith. They're going to say, I'm not a Christian. They're going to say I'm a heathen. I don't care. Can it hurt? Yes. But I can't care enough to stop because they're not my God.

K:

Yeah, that's powerful. That's a big conviction and I'm glad that you have that. Um, I feel like There's, in the breast cancer community, even folks with implants, you know, anyone that's been through breast cancer totally gets it. Your body is different. You should be able to express the difference that you've experienced.

And outside of breast cancer, I think a lot of my friends, even friends that are like clinical therapists, social workers, you know, they're a little boggled by it. They're curious. They're not judgmental. But then there are people, especially of the male gender, who just don't get it. Do you have, and you mentioned you have a partner, do you have a partner that defends you in this area and understands you?

C:

OH my gosh. So my husband and I have been married forever. We've been married 24 years and when I got diagnosed, you know how they have you to come in for your consultation. So it was my husband, my sister and my mom that I brought in and we were sitting there. And so my question was, what's survival? Well, they're going to tell you five years because that's survival for everybody, right?

That's just like a, they put everybody in one big room. Um, so she's going over all the statistics and stuff. So my husband asked a good question, recurrence. And. She said, well, if she does lumpectomy, radiation, if she does lumpectomy without radiation, like she gave me all these different choices and he said, well, what about if she had a mastectomy, you know, like a double one. She said, oh, it drops it to like 2%. He said, we'll go with that. I said, WAIT a minute! I was like, wait, it's my choice! He said yeah, but no, I want you here. With us. He was like, so, so yes, he's to answer your question. He's very supportive. It was, he would never admit this, but I feel, cause I know it was uncomfortable for me.

The very first time we were intimate after, you know, after all the healing and stuff, it was, it was strange for the first two times, first few times actually. And he would never admit that's the case, but you know, your partner, right. You know who you've been. And it was like, this is strange for you and me. And but you know, with time. And doing what my friend had asked, told me to do another breast cancer survivor. She's like, you know, just you and him explore your body again and everything. And when she said it, I’m like, that makes sense. So that did help, you know, but, um, but yeah, he's, he's very much supportive.

He's, uh, He was like, yeah. And I told him, I, I'm not one of your marines. I was like, you cannot answer for me So, um, I said, but it did, it did make me feel loved and supported genuinely that he spoke so quick and was like, no, take them.

K:

Yeah, it's nice to know that they're behind it. My husband was the same. He was trying to zip his lip really, really hard and not have an opinion and let me decide. But then when I said that I wanted the second one off also, he was like, Oh, I'm so glad that you said that because that's what I would like to, because yeah, of course they care more about our, our health and longevity than the way that we look.

That's great.

C:

So that was the extent of that. I just. I'm so grateful for the support of family and I always call it my village of people. Um, my family, my and the breast cancer community. Uh, we are a very, you know, unfortunately getting larger, but at the same time, I just think there's a unification within it. That is something I can't describe it. And a lot of us, I think we have a very difficult time describing it because, it's very hard to describe because we're just very linked together in a way that a lot of people do not understand. And it's one of those things that you would not understand it unless you went through it. And I don't want anyone to go through it, but I have to say I found a whole nother family within this community.

K:

That's wonderful. We just have a few minutes left, but if you have any advice for younger, uh, flat advocates or activists, um, coming up in, in the community or just folks dealing with capsular contracture or breast implant illness, do you have any advice that you would give them early on in their journey?

C:

I would say definitely continue to fight for what you know is happening within your body because only you really know. And a lot of people say, well, that “pain usually doesn't come with breast cancer” or “you're too young” or this or that, but no, you know, your body, I've, I fought for almost 20 years outside to say that I had cancer a whole 20 years, but I started having symptoms. So continue to voice your opinion, continue to, you know, if you don't know how to advocate for yourself, ask someone who's within this community to help you. That's what I did. I kept on asking friends that had gone through breast cancer and I hadn't even gotten diagnosed. I just knew the symptoms that I was have, I was having and experiencing. not normal. I began to learn from them and learn also how to advocate for myself. And if you don't know how, ask someone to come with you. If you go to an appointment and you may forget something, and this is big, whether you're in treatment or not in treatment. know, tell the doctor you want to record so that you don’t forget. I think that's a big, big one and make copies of all your records, not just digital, but print them out.

I'm saying all of this is because I see so many people who do not have these, they haven't done these things. And then they are like, I don't remember this. I don't remember that. And so sometimes writing stuff down, you'll forget to write it. Cause it's just so much information coming to you. So ask them, can you record or ask another person to come with you. Just remember that your voice definitely matters. opinion matters. how you want to treat your body matters. And no one should tell you any different than that. And you should fight for the right to ensure that you are being treated respectfully because you can always get a second, third, fourth, fifth opinion. Um, and use that if you need to. And when it comes to advocating, if you feel—some people don't feel like they want to share their story, they, they, they don't want to share their story and that's your right too. But if you feel like you want to share your story, don't be embarrassed because someone out there needs to hear it. Either they are going through it or getting ready to go through it. don't feel like, Oh, nobody's going to listen to me. Somebody will listen to you. Don't, I know sometimes people get caught up in numbers. Well, I didn't get that many likes or I didn't get this or that. Don't worry about that. Just share your story,
Share your story to help other people. So that's basically it for me.

K:

Thank you, Christina. It's been so great to hear a little bit more deeply about your story. Um, tell me about your handles on Instagram and, and anywhere else that you're at.

C:

Well, um, if you want to find me personally, you can look up Christina minor and that's M I N E R and Christina is C H R I S T I N A. I just always assume people know CH because people try to fit K, but, um, so you can find me at Christina minor, or you can find me at Our Scars Speak and that's on ig and it's both of them on IG um, Facebook.

And then when it comes to YouTube, you can find me at “our scars speak” and also podcasting at our scars speak. So very, very simple.

K:

Great. And then you're the article to the women's health magazine. Is that still linkable? Can I find that? Okay, cool. I'll put that in.

C:

Yeah, if you can, um, you can look it up and post it underneath, but for anyone who's listening, you can look up Christina Minor Flattie or Christina Minor Women's Health Magazine. It'll pop up.

K:

Okay, great. I'll put that on the website for the podcast. It's www. abreastcancerdiary. com.

C:

Absolutely. Thank you.

K:

Well, I'll see you there. I will talk to you soon in our mastermind, and until then, I hope that you stay well this winter.

Thank you so much.