Resilience: Journalist to Venture Capitalist

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Genevieve LeMarchal about Resilience: Journalist to Venture Capitalist. They speak about Genevieve's "Phoenix Manifesto", and what journalism and venture capitalism have in common. 

Genevieve LeMarchal is the Managing Partner of Suncoast Ventures, an early stage venture capital fund specializing in healthcare impact and equity funding opportunities in medical AI, digital health, health tech, medtech and select therapeutics. She launched and ran Expert Dojo’s healthcare program and ran 3 full cohorts of health tech and medtech companies, becoming one of the most prolific early stage vc investors in Southern California (Crunchbase, 2022) and winner of the 2022 Biocom Lifescience Catalyst Award. She loves to innovate financial models and find better ways to structure and fund companies and deals. She previously served as Partner at a science focused advisory and fund in formation, was a General Partner at Oregon-based FoundersPad VC Fund II and she is co-founder of the XXcelerate Fund. She is the host of the AdVentureous Podcast. Genevieve writes and delivers talks, keynotes and training programs to groups all over the world about venture capital and entrepreneurship, impact and equity investing and more.

You can find out more about Genevieve and Suncoast Ventures at:

https://www.suncoastvc.com/

adventureous podcast

linked in

 

Transcript:

00:04

Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. The Founder's Sandbox is a podcast now in its second season. It's a monthly podcast that reaches entrepreneurs, business owners, and business owners.

 

00:30

who learn about building resilient, scalable, and sustainable businesses with great corporate governance. I am Brenda McCabe, your host on the Founder's Sandbox. And here my mission is very simple. I want to assist those entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in building those scalable, well-governed, and resilient businesses. Guests to this podcast are either founders, business owners, players in the VC,

 

00:59

private equity, ecosystem, professional service providers who like me want to use the power of the enterprise be that small, medium or large to create change for a better world. Through storytelling with each of my guests, we're gonna touch upon their own personal and professional journeys. And I always tease out topics around resilience, purpose-driven businesses and sustainable growth. My goal with this podcast is to really

 

01:29

create a fun sandbox environment where we can equip one founder at a time to build a better world through great corporate governance. Today my guest is Genevieve LeMarchal. It's an honor to have Genevieve today with me. Thank you Genevieve. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. You know Genevieve is the managing partner of Suncoast Ventures.

 

01:56

an early stage venture capital fund specializing in healthcare impact and equity funding opportunities. I'll go a bit more into your background in a moment. Genevieve and I go back probably two years when you were at Expert Dojo and their healthcare fund. And recently we met again at an investor summit and got to have dinner with Genevieve.

 

02:25

and discover kind of her journey to what she does today as managing partner of a venture fund. And in that dinner discussion, I discovered actually the theme of that. So very near and dear to my heart, which is around resilience and her own personal and professional journey is all about resilience. And the title for the episode today is resilience on journalist.

 

02:54

to venture capitalist. So thank you again Genevieve for joining me today in the Founder Sandbox. I'm gonna give a bit more color to your very deep expertise in healthcare. You're fun today, invest in digital health, health tech, med tech and select therapeutics. You also launched and ran

 

03:22

at Expert Dojo, a healthcare program running three cohorts of health tech and med tech companies. Shout out, quite a few of those companies are women owned. You become one of the most prolific early stage VC investors in Southern California as per Crunchbase 2022. You also were the winner of the 2022 Biocom Life-Size Catalyst.

 

03:50

Life Science Catalyst Award. You have a strength in developing innovative financial models, and you find better ways to structure and fund companies and deals. We all know that life sciences has a really long time to market. A lot of patient money has to sit behind that. You also previously served as partner at a science-focused advisory and fund information. You were a general partner at an Oregon-based

 

04:19

Founders Pad VC Fund 2, and you are co-founder of the Accelerate Fund. And you also have your own podcast. So this is not new to you. She is the host of Adventurous Podcast, and she writes and delivers talks, keynotes, and training programs to groups all over the world. You're a Pacific Northwest native, and you now reside in San Francisco Bay Area.

 

04:49

Genevieve, thank you. Thank you. After the dinner, where I had the honor to sit beside you, I came back and took a look at Suncoast Ventures website. And digging through it, I landed upon the Phoenix Manifesto, which is on your landing page.

 

05:15

And I want to read it here because I think it so encapsulates before you tell us what does journalism and BC investment have in common. I'm going to read this. Again, this is on the website of Suncoast Ventures. I am a phoenix. I am shakeable, not because I have never had setbacks. I am intimate with pain and failure. I stand tall.

 

05:43

and look it in the face and I have always pushed through. I always show up and I never give up. I believe anything is possible no matter the odds. I have faced the odds my entire life, fighting for my place in this world, for my right to walk the pathways to achieve greatness. What makes me resilient has nothing to do with what you see on my surface and everything to do with what lies.

 

06:13

within. Science and technology for betterment of society is how I choose to contribute to the world. I have dedicated my life. This is how I live and love. I'm willing to bend, but I'll never break. And the darkness can't get me because I burn on my very own. This is how I create my own light.

 

06:43

I have risen from the ashes many times. I am forged and fired full of grace. I am unshakable. So with that, tell us your story Genevieve. What does journalism and VC investment have in common? Yeah, well, so I started out my career for a short period of time as a journalist. Straight out of college, I went to school for journalism, all of that.

 

07:11

And journalism school is actually very difficult. You have to be very, they teach you to be very precise and they teach you to have extremely high standards for your work because if you mess up or if you have an incorrect fact or something that's inaccurate or whatever that might be, it can't run on paper. It does, you're gonna make the paper look really bad and you're probably gonna get fired. So.

 

07:40

So that's really ingrained. But then the next thing that's really ingrained into journalism students and eventual journalists is just this insatiable ability to tell a story and the desire to find one, to seek the truth, find out what's really going on. And so even though I had to report as the youngest and new reporter in the newsroom on the really boring story is things that no one could do.

 

08:08

talks about, no one wants to read. I had to write about the squirrel that was going rabid on somebody's roof and they called the police, just turned out it was a squirrel. It was a small town. News was limited, but things like that. And then, but I was always, I had this dream, I wanted to break a story, and I really idolized the great journalists like Edward R. Murrow.

 

08:35

of course, Anderson Cooper. I really thought that he was like a really revolutionary journalist of our time and all these different things. And so I was always looking to dig past what I was being told on the surface and get down to the truth. And that is something that you have to do every single day as a venture capital investor, because unlike investing in...

 

09:02

later stage deals or even like public markets or things like that, the information is not readily available. So you have to dig for it and you have to look for it. And you're also making bets on really nascent things that don't really exist yet. So you're always looking for information to piece together to try to determine whether or not an area of investment is viable.

 

09:31

Is it a gap we should be focusing on? Is it not a gap we shouldn't be focusing on? And that doesn't just come from one person's single observation of what they see on the surface. It comes from lots of information gathered and aggregated over time to create a story. And then we hope, as investors, that the story is true. So I would say those are the parallels. And that's a great segue to the next question.

 

10:00

around you hope as investors that the story that you've been able to weave together jointly with the company your funding does come true. There are parallels with running a fund, setting up a fund VC fund to that of being a founder, right? Yeah, not not all of them. Right. And so you know, what has you you?

 

10:30

have been through a couple funds. And the most recent is, is you are the fund manager. You know, what does staying true to your purpose, right? And your fun mean, you know, we've we've coming up for you raise this fund in June of 2022. Yeah, you bring in some of the companies from the cohorts coming up about expert dojo, you're really centered on the thesis of

 

10:59

of health care. You know, what is it that allows you to stay true to purpose?

 

11:06

That's such a big question. Like you can write a whole book about that. I need to talk about that. I think that the thing that allows me to stay true to purpose is the fact that I've been burnt out so many times and a lot of it has to do, had to do with the fact that I wasn't being true to myself. I wasn't being just, you know, I was hiding something. I was lying to myself. I was, you know, trying to be something that I really wasn't.

 

11:35

And it's not to say that you won't get tired and burnt out by being true to yourself. In fact, I feel very burnt out right now at this moment. But it's different because I think now I have the skills, the ability to be resilient. That whereas past I hadn't, but also because I'm still being true to myself, I just have a lot of my plate. But I think that when you kind of look at your

 

12:02

tendencies and it you know, one of the things we'd get as adults is the ability to look back at patterns of our own selves and patterns of our own life and say I always tend to do this and then I end up in these situations and It now it doesn't have anything to do with anyone aside from myself. I'm the common denominator How do I fix this, you know and and you start to call and you start to edit? And you over time you kind of realize like really?

 

12:32

The area that I always come back to is this core. And this might have been trendy at the time, and maybe I wanted to do it. Or this might have sounded interesting, and I was influenced by someone. Or this seemed opportunistic, and I went after it for a while. But at the end of the day, this is where I'm always ending up. And you have that kind of feedback as an adult if you're willing to listen and learn from it. You know, on your own. Yeah, that's very authentic.

 

13:01

Thank you for that. You also are a big follower, Warren Buffett. I think one of your, going back to your being true to yourself, your financial acumen and how you look at companies. Can you speak a little bit to the fundamentals that have informed your fund? Yeah.

 

13:26

Yeah, well, so the Warren Buffett thing is interesting because it's like Warren Buffett's investing mindset and his fundamentals. He would probably never be a venture capital investor. You know what I mean? But at the end of the day, Warren Buffett is who Warren Buffett is. And he has been very successful because he has stayed very true to his core principles. He has always made the main thing the main thing.

 

13:53

And I think in venture capital, we tend to get so pulled into all these different areas that are hot or new or that people seem to be doing or whatever. And you don't see a lot of steadfastness in venture capital like you might see in funds like what Warren Buffett has. And we can benefit from that because the legendary fund managers, the Warren Buffetts of the world, the Ray Dalios of the world.

 

14:22

They all focus very, very strongly on just core fundamentals of investing. And in venture capital, like you mentioned earlier about the time and patient capital, that's one of the things that people get so swept away in is trying to make venture capital all things. And it's like, oh yeah, we're going to get these quicker returns. They're going to be high in this unicorn.

 

14:46

And then you watch these things fall apart. You watch the bottom fall out. And you're like, it was never real. It was always alive. And maybe some people made money. They got lucky. They got out or whatever at the right time. I don't know. But the point being, we're always trying to manufacture some sort of crazy situation when in reality, and one of the ways we manufacture it is by doing round upon round upon round of.

 

15:13

higher and higher valuations that are getting crazier and crazier. And then it all comes crashing down, and we wonder what happened. And we say, venture capital is massive class is bad. It's like, well, not really. The mindset that we might be approaching it as managers is sometimes not right, because we need to remember venture capital is patient capital. It's slow. Our investors and LPs, while they are my bosses, they know that this is not going to, you know,

 

15:41

turnover overnight and start to create returns. The pressure that I feel to produce returns is healthy to an extent, but we need to remember that we're investing the gaps. We're looking for opportunities to invest in underpriced assets. Yes. And that's the bet we're making is this asset is underpriced and it will be, and that doesn't mean this asset is underpriced per what the public market might say. That means this asset is underpriced

 

16:11

like now, you know? And I think that if I invest in this, it will generate a positive markup and eventually a positive return because it's creating real economic value and not just paper returns on paper returns. And so those, I mean, I could go on and on about what the fundamentals are, but I think it comes down to, we then vilify the asset class.

 

16:39

when the asset class is actually not the problem. The problem is the way that we try to finagle it to get to get it to be what we want it to be. And it's not like that. That's so elegant. And I also am a true believer in the patience that is required in life sciences, biotech, that anything that is any startup

 

17:06

it's any startup a particular life sciences or right that those there's no hockey stick, right? It is you, you have to introduce largely against the standard of care, right? That is incumbent within treating a certain therapeutic area. Let's let's kind of change the messages for my listeners here on the pad cat podcast. So at

 

17:36

the founder sandbox, I often end up being a mentor to CEOs and digging in when when times get tough, we know we are coming off particularly difficult two years with head winds, you know, we have high interest rates, there is a lot of dry powder out there. Yeah, but what and I and how I work with founders oftentimes is hey, have you written?

 

18:05

And will you show me a thank you letter that you've been, that you've sent out either to somebody within your personal or your professional network. I did this really early on with founders because to build resilience, I think being grateful and just recognizing those people because you are riding on the shoulder. Sometimes your team might not be following you along. The market's timing isn't the greatest. So you've had a recent change in your family.

 

18:34

and new addition. You're running a VC fund. You have you're raising money as well. How have you built resilience and how you do you continue to build resilience to naive within the new arrival to your family? Yeah, that's a really good question. And I don't know the answer to it. Oh, 100% yet. But last year, I'm decided to make my kind of word of the year.

 

19:04

Perfectly imperfect. Perfectly what? Perfectly imperfect. I love, okay. And the reason I chose that word was because, you know, I've always been a very high achieving person. And ultimately, I was always, as a high achiever, also very controlling. Okay. Not of other people, but of, of like, what was happening.

 

19:30

you know, I have very specific goals, very specific outcomes. And I would say, oh, I was being goal oriented, but no, I was being controlling. And I wanted things to go a very specific way. And when it didn't go like that, I would be, I would work harder, fight harder, try harder to get a certain outcome to occur. And then when things were going differently in my life, I made myself wrong for that.

 

19:54

And so it was like this perfectionism thing and trying to control the outcomes of my life so that it could look the way I thought it should look. And it was not healthy. And then when I realized that I'm not in control no matter how hard I try, I'm not in control no matter how much I might stress myself out and try to make myself in control. And if I let go a little bit and do more steering and allow,

 

20:22

things to occur, it's hard because it's going to require me to have faith. It's going to require me to face a lot of the fears I have about not achieving the thing I'm trying to get to of, you know, and all the things associated with that. But oftentimes the outcome that ends up occurring for me is better than what I wanted, had I... Figured that. You know, yeah. So I was like, well, this is interesting because I'm not in control anyway.

 

20:50

And this could very easily become very much a spiritual discussion. It could keep it not that, but like, you know, if I want to create this life of purpose and life of impact, I've got to just stay core to the values and core to that and move, but allow things to happen. And so with having a child recently, you're even more not in control.

 

21:19

this child is in control. So the word of the year continues to be perfectly imperfect because accepting that things may not necessarily look the way you want them to. I used to have these idyllic mornings where I'd wake up and rested, you know, and have my coffee and, you know, catch up on my email. And like, you know, everything in my life was very easy.

 

21:44

and very prescripted almost in a way. And this morning I got barfed on, you know? Yeah, that happened. Yeah, and so I was like, well, you know, but how, but it's different, but the only thing that makes it bad is that it's not my idea of what things should be. You know, things should be this way, should be that way. So when I let go of the shoulds, it's perfectly imperfect just the way it is.

 

22:10

I got you've heard it here on the founders sandbox with Genevieve LaMarchelle perfectly imperfect. I great I love that. I love it. Okay, up until now, you've shared and I've shared your background, many, many success stories, many awards. We all know that the road to success is often fraught with some stories of failure. Can you share some of these stories with my listeners here?

 

22:39

I have a lot of failures. In fact, it's interesting because I just think a lot of those successes were actually like kind of a failure but it worked out or something like that, you know, in a way. But I think I often tell people that I came into venture capital off of a failure and not off of a success. As a founder, I had a startup and a lot of things went very, very, very wrong.

 

23:08

in that startup and a lot of it was my fault. Some of it was not my fault. And some of it was just like perfect storm of crap that occurred and it was just like, well, this is, it taught me a lot after I finally was able to recover from a lot of that that happened about how

 

23:36

one thing like what is failure and what is success really? And how would I have, I have the outcome that I wanted in my head, but when things are going really bad, you kind of create a new outcome and that becomes success. And the definition of success started to change. And so I realized like, I don't actually think that in startups, there is a way to be successful. I just think you don't fail.

 

24:05

for long enough and you eventually get lucky. That's full. We were unlucky and I didn't have the experience or the resilience or the support in order to be able to navigate out of some of the situations, you know, and to your points about, you know, governance, we didn't have good governance. We didn't have any governance whatsoever. That probably would have helped us a lot, but we didn't have it. So, yeah, I think when...

 

24:34

at the end of the day after you've recovered from whatever the fallout of your failure is, you're left with wisdom. But you can only be wise and you can only turn that wisdom into like gold if you're willing to accept yourself as someone who failed. You're willing to, you're not trying to hide it. You're not trying to like shove it under the rug or pretend it didn't happen or pain.

 

25:00

paint a picture over it, lipstick on a pig, if you will. Right. To say, this was a garbage fire, and it was my garbage fire. And this is what I learned from it. And this is what I can help now to either not do it again, or in my case, as a VC and advisor to a lot of companies, help them not do these things. I made a lot of pretty common mistakes, pretty common stuff. Yeah. And thank you for sharing.

 

25:30

your, I guess, failure, a startup that eventually did not prevail in getting financed. I couldn't help but listen to and hear from you lack of governance, but also about you didn't have the operational help around you. That would have perhaps ushered you to

 

25:59

success and getting funded. What are you doing at Suncoast Ventures to operationalize those founders? To operationalize the founders or? Yeah, to help them. Yeah. Well, so I mean, there's not a lot I can do because the founder, like I'm not on their board. I don't have a board seat in the companies, nor do I really want one because of the operation Suncoast would have to

 

26:28

With those founders, oftentimes now I can see the signs of things that are going wrong. And not only do I see the signs of something going wrong currently, I can see a train coming. And that's something that I don't think a lot of other people have that foresight that I've gained over my years of failures. Is I can recognize a failure when I see one. Like I know a speeding train is not a, I don't know.

 

26:58

I'm making up something weird, but so I, you know, I can kind of talk with them about that. And I also, because I was a founder and I went head strong and I did think I knew the best and, and things like that. And truthfully, as we see, you want to back the best founders and the best founders are resourceful. Yes. They'll listen to you. They won't always implement what you said, but they will actually listen and they'll actually take it to heart and things like that.

 

27:27

And so the best founders are very, very communicative. They share with you what's going on, the good and the bad. But if you have to drag the bad out of them, because of course you wanna present the best light to your investors. I know, I certainly do. And so when they share, or when you ask, what are you struggling with right now? And they kind of dance around it. I can quickly kind of pull out what's happening and say,

 

27:57

I know that you don't have a lot of time to do this administrative activity over here with the cap table, or I know that you're feeling really stressed and stressed and you don't really have time to address this issue or that issue. But here's why I think we need to do it now. Here's why it's not going to be as hard or scary as you think. And here's what could happen if we don't do it. And those types of conversations.

 

28:27

Then you leave them. They'll usually set the ball in motion to make that right. And I often have my founders allow me to help them at that point, where I can say, I know it's challenging. We've got a cap table problem. It may not seem like a problem now, but it's going to be a problem at series A, and that's not that far away. So let's fix it now, because I don't want you to be in a position where you can't raise your A round because.

 

28:55

we've got this fixable thing, but it's just going to take time. So let's just solve it now. And they're like, Oh, I hadn't thought about that. And so, and then they'll let you solve, then they'll let you fix it with them. Excellent. But it can't just be like a, you got to fix your cap table is a mess, you know, or it's, um, as you said, you do have to have founders that are communicative and, um, you know, tell you the good, bad and the ugly, right.

 

29:24

Yeah, on a recurring basis so that you as the fund manager and the investor are able to provide your wisdom that you've acquired with your many, many experiences. And you can get a vibe early sometimes from founders. As I'm sure you've noticed, sometimes the conversation with the founders vary one way. They're just pitching at you and they're not really listening and they have their response. And you're like, this is like...

 

29:53

interesting company, you know, great founder, great team, but I get this weird feeling that I'm just being, this is very one way and it's not reciprocal. And in the seed stage, especially if you're going to be one of the first like VCs or professional investors in that, it's really important that you get the vibe that there's going to be a reciprocal communication going on.

 

30:22

You know, your Suncoast Ventures Vintage One is from June 2022. So kudos to you raising a fund in a pretty tough market. You've been in the venture space for over 10 years, right? As an emerging fund solo manager, can you share some of the lessons learned? Maybe it's about aciclality, because life science is acyclico.

 

30:51

Talk to us about how it's how you weathered through raising a fund, particularly with the headwinds that we've had. Right? Yeah. Well, so I mean, all things all early stage venture is not tied to public markets. It's not it's not. So that's so as a person, whether you're thinking about being an angel or whether you're thinking about having a fund or whatever, if you have the ability to weather storms, which requires

 

31:19

patients and resilience and all this stuff like that, early stage is the great place to be, even with the companies that completely blow up. Early stage investors usually did kind of okay when you look at a lot of these as examples. That being said, in where we specialize in healthcare technology and medical AI type tech and things like that, we're also...

 

31:49

Health tends to be a laggard in terms of technology adoption. The stuff that is super bleeding edge that we're looking at like Nvidia is doing and things. Yes. Health care is not there. So I do sometimes have some of the benefit of being able to be with the pack that's a little bit more of a laggard in terms of technology because you can see how other industries adopted it or didn't adopt it and adjust. So there's some of the foresight there. But.

 

32:17

You know, in terms of the cyclicalness of this, I think that's where almost the journalism training comes in. You know, you don't get, actually, I love my quotes. So Warbuffet, love him. John Wooden, he had a quote that was like, you can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a fallacy to get caught up in either one. And I remember hearing that, or reading that, or something like that back in my 20s. And in my 20s, I was just chasing

 

32:47

validation and praise, like we all were, you know, and, you know, come from a military family, they were very much like, um, focused on high achievement. And, and so I was really looking for that, looking for that and all the places, both right and wrong. And, um, and so the idea that it was a fallacy to get caught up in praise, I was like, huh, why would that be the case? You know? And, but

 

33:14

So over time, you can liken John Wooden's quotes to the craze that happens around anything. Right now, it's AI. Before, it was about there's crypto, and then there was a bunch of Web3 stuff going on. And it's sort of like, don't get caught up in any one thing. It's always a cycle. The market's great. Awesome. The market's not great. Fine.

 

33:39

Like, you know, I'm sticking around. And so last year as the market cycled, it was a little scary to watch my watch managers, um, not that dissimilar to me, just old everywhere, just fall apart and, you know, and be afraid of for myself. But I just thought, you know, we're, we're going to hunker down and we're not going to go anywhere and then, you know, and that keep doing what we do. And.

 

34:08

Maybe we'll slow down a little because we have to. Maybe we will make slight adjustments to course because we have to. But we're not going to respond with these big swings to whatever the market is doing. And so last year, I started thinking a lot about market cycles. And I went back and looked at some of these really, really old investment analyst documents that I found. OK.

 

34:36

from like the 1960s. And I can't remember who had produced this, but it was like a photograph of like a brown paper, sketches. And I was looking at this and I was like reading recessionary trends and just being a nerd. And I was like, this guy in 1942 to 1965 or whatever that he was doing this, the curves are the same.

 

35:06

they're just maybe slightly closer together now because things happen much quicker. The velocity. We're still doing this. So, you know, let's not act like right now as a unique situation because it's not, we've seen it before and we know what we would have done or should have done back then. So let's just do that now, you know, which is not lose your head and- And stick to your knitting. Yeah, just keep going. Yeah. Excellent.

 

35:36

I would like to give you the opportunity Genevieve to tell us how to reach you, my listeners. Please, is that on LinkedIn? Yeah, LinkedIn is great. Please don't pitch there. My inbox is involved with pitches. And most of them aren't even like in thesis for what we do. So you know, if a company does, if someone's a founder and they want to submit Suncoast on our website, you can submit on the website. Okay.

 

36:07

So that, and we do look at those, like those things come in and we do look at those. So that's the best way to reach me as a founder. If you wanna not pitch, if you just wanna like connect and, you know, read posts, you know, and interact on LinkedIn, LinkedIn is great. But just don't pitch on LinkedIn. And then if you have an Instagram. Okay. Yeah. Is it Sankos Ventures? No, no, it's just my name. It's at Genevieve. Genevieve LeMarchal, yeah. Okay.

 

36:35

that. And then of course, you know, there's adventurous podcast, which is on all major podcasting channels, there's links to it, you can get to from Instagram and things like that. And also, I have a website for it. I don't use it much, but it's adventurous podcasts.com. Thank you. All of these ways to connect and what to do and what not to do will be in the show notes. Yeah, just don't pitch on LinkedIn. Yes.

 

37:05

Very sound advice. I always asked my guests to kind of come back to the founder sandbox with me. I work on themes of resilience, purpose driven enterprises, and sustainable growth with the founders I serve. And I do not one guest has the same description of the the meaning of this word. So resilience, what does it mean to you? I mean, your man, your Phoenix manifesto is for me.

 

37:35

the an amazing show of resilience. But what does resilience mean to you? Resilience, I think it just means that like.

 

37:51

you're going to give yourself grace, but you're, and you're going to stay the course, you know. And so, you know, there's times when it's hard to be resilient when, you know, we need, we need to give ourselves grace. We need other people to give us grace. You know, we need that. It doesn't make you any less resilient because you need that. First and foremost, you give it to yourself.

 

38:21

some grace doesn't mean you're not going, you're not continuing forward. You're not pushing forward and you're not staying in course. So, um, I guess while moving forward, I don't know. Yeah. Yes. And I loved within the manifesto I'm willing to bend, but I'll never break. So that, that ability to, to have grace, give yourself grace, purpose-driven enterprise. What does that mean to you? So, um,

 

38:49

What purpose-driven means to me is that it is really aligned with what we've defined as purpose and impact and health. Purpose-driven means that it has a greater, it's a bigger outcome than simply just large returns. It doesn't not mean large return. It should mean that in fact, because if you want more and more.

 

39:15

assets and allocations to be put into impact or purpose driven enterprises, you need to produce returns. But that's what it means to me is more than just the financial outcome. And also I'll go back to your Phoenix manifesto, science and technology for betterment of society is how I choose to contribute to the world.

 

39:43

Sustainable growth. What's that mean to you? Sustainable growth. I'm sexy growth. Don't chase the latest, right? Yeah. Thank you. And your last, the last question. Did you have fun in the sandbox today? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. It's time with me.

 

40:13

And my listeners will be better off after listening to Genevieve. Is it Lamar call? Is it? It's lay Marshall. And they marshaled. Genevieve, they marshal. So if you've liked this episode, sign up for my monthly release of a podcast where you're going to be listening to entrepreneurs, business owners, VCs, professionals, and risk providers.

 

40:42

on how to build strong governance in a resilient, scalable and purpose driven company to make profits for good. This podcast is available on any major streaming platform and I look forward to dropping again in on a monthly basis this podcast. Signing off until next month. Thank you.