Unleashing Creativity for Business Excellence

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda McCabe speaks with Sue Tinnish- an executive coach working with CEO's and Presidents of middle-market companies. They discuss "unleashing creativity for business excellence" , ranging from Sue's experience while in hospitality to make events interactive and engaging, to using playfulness with very complex issues in analogies and stories to lead good alignment of the organization.

Sue is a seasoned professional who has worked in a variety of settings. She has a diverse background in business with specific skills in leadership, formulating strategy, managing change, building teams, and delivering on strategic and tactical projects. She is currently an executive coach working with CEOs and Presidents of middle-market companies. She supports executives as they deal with their own leadership issues (delegation, time management, prioritization, decision making & mindset) as well as supporting their organization’s growth addressing issues like talent optimization, sales, finance and risk.

Sue earned her PhD from Benedictine University in Lisle, Illinois. She holds an M.B.A. with a concentration in finance and marketing from University of Chicago’s Booth School and a B.S. in communication studies from Northwestern University.  And she likes to have fun!

You can find out more about Sue Tinnish at:

Linked IN https://www.linkedin.com/in/suetinnish/

or Contact her at:

[email protected]

Resources:

Why playfulness matters in Startup to Scale up.

https://www.humorseriously.com/

 

 

Transcript

00:04
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, your host. This monthly podcast is now in its second season and it reaches entrepreneurs and business owners who learn about building resilient, scalable, and sustainable.

00:32
and sustainable businesses, all with great corporate governance. I wanna assist entrepreneurs and business owners in building these scalable, well-governed and resilient businesses. And I bring guests to the podcast that are themselves, founders, business owners, corporate board directors, investors and professional service providers, like Sue Tinnish, who's with us today. We all share a common...

01:01
interest in this using the power of the private enterprise, be that small, medium, and large, to create change for a better world. Through storytelling with each of my guests on topics that are gonna include their own experience with resilience, purpose-driven enterprises, and sustainable growth, my goal with the Founder Sandbox is to provide a fun sandbox environment where we can equip one startup founder at a time to build a better world through great corporate governance.

01:30
So today my guest again is Sue Tinnish. Thank you so much for joining me here, Sue. So happy to join you, Brenda, in this context. Excellent. Sue's joined in the podcast today in her capacity as a Vistage leader. For those who are actually seeing the video, I love your back screen, leading a life of a climb with Vistage.

01:57
She also has, as a member of Vistage, shares oftentimes in LinkedIn a newsletter called Making a Difference. I encourage everyone to follow Sue in LinkedIn because the messages that come across in this newsletter do resonate with business owners on making a difference. Today, we chose a topic, again, I'm all about resilience, sustainability, and purpose-driven

02:26
businesses. And when speaking with Sue on and off, we both share University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, Abu School is our background, right? That's we didn't meet there. But we did meet the alumni network is really quite active. And we discovered that we both use innovation and creativity with the work we do with our with our clients and

02:54
As I learned more of Sue's background, which I'll get to in a minute, I was just fascinated on specific tools, techniques, writing that she's used over the last 20 years at least. I'm gonna give you a brief introduction to Sue. She has a diverse background in business with specific skills in leadership, formulating strategy.

03:22
managing change, building teams and delivering a strategic and tactical projects. She is currently executive coach, working with CEOs and presidents of middle market companies. Prior to this activity, she's had experiences in academia, corporate banking, consulting and being an entrepreneur herself. So you check a lot of boxes, Sue. I thank you. I thank you again.

03:51
Also, the other aspect that we want to explore today is kind of you're a co-chair of the Chicago based Vistage Chief Executive Group and it's co-led by a male and a female. And I believe it's one of the unique or only chapters that is co-led and you're bringing in the diversity to the actual classroom itself. So I'd love to learn a little bit more later. All right.

04:19
So Sue and I have been in contact through our affiliation to the Chicago Women's Alliance. And I'm absolutely delighted that Sue's gonna tell us a little bit about some of the tools and techniques she explores as leader of Vistage. So can you share what has been a common denominator through your professional journey that has released or discovered, which you've discovered creativity?

04:49
Such an interesting question. So I guess I would say that as a leader, I've always had a real strong focus on people and teams. And so I really have encompassed playfulness, humor, and really creativity to help foster organizational growth. But it's really through people that that has happened. So that's been a very common denominator. And

05:18
I grew up in an era where what I was taught and learned about management was a little more like straight-laced and forward. And just my own personal growth, I really discovered, you know, through the process of learning and growing, I've discovered that that's not necessarily the way that you have to be. And I also think that, you know, interestingly, being a female, we bring different skill sets to the environment.

05:47
being more authentic has been meant that I've relied both on my own sense of humor, curiosity and playfulness to be effective. And you bring that into those monthly meetings with CEOs, I'm certain. Yes. You know, you, one of the articles that will later be in the show notes, is you brought in or explored kind of the entertainment.

06:16
element as a platform that unleashes creativity when you were working in the hospitality sector. Can you walk us through that specific kind of experience? It was, again, when you helped me prepare this, I was reading with awe. I was like, wow, I hadn't ever, you know, it goes back quite a while to

06:39
Yes. So when I worked in hospitality, I specifically worked in sort of the meetings and events and conference space. Okay. And my focus was really on how to create more innovative learning environments in that space. So it wasn't really focused on the logistics or the hotel arrangements or even the food and beverage. And really, earlier in my career, I spent a lot of time focusing on training and

07:09
And so I really thought a lot about how can you make these events, meetings, really more interactive and engaging in a way that's also going to create more knowledge, that's going to make what's happening in those meetings really stick. And so entertainment was one of those fields that I explored to talk about why entertainment can both be entertaining, but also.

07:38
or valuable in helping messaging stick. So like one example would be, think about like the topic of sexual harassment in Illinois, in many places most organizations. It's a requirement. It's a requirement, exactly. So no one's gonna raise their hand and say, oh yes, in a public environment, I've been sexually harassed or I'm a harasser. But when you use actors or entertainment or some kind of role playing,

08:08
a delicate subject out there in a way that people can maybe see themselves or see themselves in that situation and allow themselves to really go internally, aha, I understand now what has happened because of what I've seen on the stage. So I think entertainment can be used in a more strategic way beyond just being entertaining.

08:33
That is fascinating. And thank you for specifically providing an example. I'm just actually visually imagining a setup whereby a hairy topic is addressed in kind of an entertaining way with actors. Amazing. And I liked what you said about it allows maybe some of the learning that is happening within the meeting to stick.

09:01
because one is more relaxed, laughing, right? I actually had written a blog about two years ago on why playfulness matters in startup to scale up. And I discovered kind of five fundamental elements that I have seen or I've observed, I've introduced to my clients, there's no rules, right?

09:27
to generate more ideas, have a problem statement, allow people from all different levels of the organization compete in generating those ideas. But more importantly, when you were talking about the sexual harassment or using entertainment with professional actors, one founder I worked with actually brought in a surprise question at the end of the all hands on deck meeting.

09:56
And then there was a prize. So it really got people to pay attention to what the monthly message was about as the corporation grew. So I'm very happy to know that I'm doing something right and you're basing it on many years of experience in Vistage as well as the entertainment, the hospitality industry. So thank you. I'd like you to, I pride myself on lots of

10:26
really practical nuts and bolts in this podcast that listeners can take away and bring into their own companies. And so you provided some insight on Harry Gardner's similar work on people's concept of multiple intelligences. And there's seven ways people are intelligent. And then you bring that in actually to some of the tools and techniques you use in your session. So can you provide that background on?

10:54
Yeah, sure. What about intelligence? So, you know, Rhonda, you and I, we think we're fairly intelligent. We went to a fabulous business school. And yet, if we were in, you know, the outback of Australia trying to survive, we would not be as smart or as intelligent as an Aboriginal woman. And so there are different ways that we think. And obviously there's been a huge interest in EQ, you know, emotional intelligence,

11:24
IQ, but really, when you start to think about the skills that a surgeon might have, or an architect, they have kinesthetic skills that maybe other people don't. And so kinesthetic is another form of intelligence. Naturalism. There are people that have natural affinity to mathematics. And so you can think about your group, and some groups are more

11:53
homogenous, like an industry group, like an association. So you can think about what kind of natural intelligence that group might have, and then you can target some of the learning and the sessions in a way that's gonna harness the way that those people think. And it may not be humor or playfulness, but you're really leaning into their strengths. And I think that's so important in this topic of adult learning. That is fascinating. Again, I am...

12:24
the seven, you know, one was musical. Again, back to some of the writing I did, and I just saw it reinforced when listening to you is, you know, Mozart was a learner, but he would, he would have to write the music, but then he would never, but to keep it in his memory, and then he would never use it again. But it's really fascinating how I imagine in your Vistage meetings, you have a

12:54
cohort of, I don't know, 10 or 12. You create a safe space where CEOs are sharing current business challenges. Ultimately, they leave the monthly meetings though, and are gonna communicate decisions made to the companies that they lead, right? Yes. How do you share with them how to bring in humor if it's required, right? For the leaders communication, what have you seen to be more effective?

13:24
in some cases. Well, first of all, I'd say that, humor does not mean that you're a standup comedian. Really, when I think about humor, I think about it as more as like levity. And so my first tip always is not to be caustic or sarcastic, cause that's not gonna fly. But leaders can bring in this levity to their communication. I say in several ways. One would be just being able to laugh at yourself. Okay.

13:53
much more approachable, it helps build rapport and trust, and it makes you more authentic and human. So that's the first way, just being able to laugh at yourself. The second way is I think you can use a joke, a little levity to just capture people's attention. You know, we've all been in meetings, blah, blah, blah. Yes. Non-drona. So humor's an opportunity to catch people's attention and really get them to sit up.

14:21
Kind of like the example you were saying before about the leader that had something at the price. I also think maybe it's not exactly humor, but certainly playfulness. It allows you to take complex ideas and make them more simple. Not saying that you're trying to dumb down the conversation, but the kind of strategic issues that leaders are facing these days can be difficult to communicate. And so a little bit of humor or playfulness

14:51
really allows people to make things understandable. Like specifically, I would think about metaphors or analogies, those are great ways, or good stories can help communicate these more complex ideas to people so that people can remember them, and then you have good alignment in the organization. So those are just three tips. Right, and what about storytelling? You just...

15:19
touched it at the end of your comments there, but I've observed primarily because of the working from home and having distributed teams. And there are more and more CEOs that are stepping up and actually using storytelling to become, or appear more authentic. Are you observing that? And can you talk about storytelling and authenticity, please?

15:49
Yes, happy to do so. So storytelling can be personal. I think those are great stories to tell. And so in doing that, you bring your whole self, that whole authentic self to the table. Okay. I just made a post yesterday on LinkedIn where I was talking about my goal around losing weight. And I was like, walking around thinking I had been more successful than I had because I didn't really, I didn't really

16:19
I didn't write my goal down. I didn't write my stating weight down. And then all of a sudden I had the realization, I'm like, oh my gosh, I really actually went up by two pounds, not down by more. And so people commented on how refreshing it was. So those kinds of stories can, and then really to drive the point home, the post was really about goal setting and also how you can do a reset.

16:47
change your mindset to make sure that you do achieve your goals. Because we still have half of the year left. So I could do this. The importance of, of, you know, self belief. And so it was a story that poked a little bit of fun at myself, but really add a message. And so many people responded to that post just by talking about, oh, my gosh, it was refreshing, so honest, so authentic, they use those kinds of words. And so I think those

17:15
That's an example of how you can use a story to resonate with the population. Because again, almost like we were talking about entertainment, people grab onto stories. That's why we go to films. That's why we read books is because for that storyline, that plot. And so finding the hero and how you can get to employees that you could be the hero or you are my hero or you are part of the hero team.

17:44
in the story can, I think can be quite effective. Wow. What about the, the leading from creativity and the use of humor to actually promote creativity? Have you seen that? Do you use those techniques in your Vistage groups or elsewhere?

18:13
So, you know, one thing is humor, right? To enhance maybe leaders communication and the other is actually creativity to generate new business ideas or to think about a problem statement. What have you seen in your work? So. Yeah, I think there's great opportunity to be playful and to unleash creativity. And I know that this is something that you and I both believe strongly in. So I think there's, you know, there's a lot of things you can do.

18:42
Metaphors, I kind of alluded to this before. When you say one thing is like another, and so you can say, you know, I feel like our organization is like a twisted pretzel right now, and why is that true? Like, how is our organization like a twisted pretzel? And so that just encourages people to think more broadly about the concept. So I think metaphors are a good way. Even choosing a random word,

19:12
picking up a book, pointing at a word like, what does bananas have to do with the strategic issue that we're facing right now? And it just causes people to be like, oh, I gotta think about this differently. And it kind of breaks the ice. Yeah, exactly. Yes, and so it just gets people to say, I don't have to think about this in the same exact way. I'm also a big fan of field trips. And so one of my efforts when I was

19:40
uh, leading a training and development effort for an association was that we, um, took field trips around Chicago. Actually related in the hospitality industry. We went to various places unrelated to hospitality and we just said, what can you learn by just going on site to a chocolate place, Garrett's popcorn, a museum, what can you learn about the way that the.

20:09
those organizations greet people, the entering experience, the engaging experience, the exiting experience. What can you learn from that that would cause you to rethink how you do it in your own organization? So I think by taking field trips like when we were kids, I think that's another other way to foster creativity. I like mind mapping. I think that's a real

20:33
good way causing people to start to write things down visually or even using props or toys to try and encompass a concept. I think those can be very effective. I love, you know, I love the improv technique of yes and, which of course is useful in brainstorming, but also useful in saying we have a product design, and it's good.

21:01
And yes, and what can we add on or what else do we need to do? So I think those are some techniques that I think promote playfulness, but also cause us to open our minds to being more creative. These are very actionable. Have they been, is it necessary to, in your experience, have these in person? Can you do this virtually? And how do you get CEOs to allocate time on their busy schedule?

21:32
Well, it's, who doesn't, I mean, what CEO doesn't want innovation and creativity in their organism? So having said that, the question is, how do you really foster it? And you don't just say, okay, let's sit down and we're going to be creative, because that's not gonna work. We all have our own cognitive biases. We have our frameworks, our assumptions, our biases for how we think.

21:58
What you wanna do is break through some of those. And in order to do that, I think you really need to think intentionally about how to do it. And to me, some of the techniques I described are not wasting time at all, but rather an intentional way to allow people to be more creative. Excellent. And so.

22:24
Can you speak to it's actually not in the script, but what is a typical Vistage meeting and cohort look like in your world in Chicago? You co-lead with a male. You have two groups that you're leading now. So what is the typical format, duration, size of group? What are the things that you're finding? Are they Illinois based companies? Do you have any?

22:51
people participate virtually. This is your opportunity to share your craft as a leader of Vistage. Okay. Well, I guess I'll first talk about the group and then I can talk a little bit about what happens in the group. So the peer group is part of the Vistage experience. There's other things, research, virtual events, the one-on-one time with me as an executive coach. But in the group, typically 10 to 18, 15, 16 members

23:21
and everyone represents a different industry. They all own their own lanes. So no competitors, no vendors, customers in the room so that you can really have an open kimono and be vulnerable and being willing to say something out loud. So the kind of people I look for are clearly, you know, very successful already in their own right, but really humble enough to say, hey, what got me here may not be what...

23:50
I need the skills and the mindset and the way I need to lead in the future. We've been through a life-changing event in terms of the pandemic, and it's had a lot of repercussions. And so how do leaders function in a new environment? And so the way you may have done it in the past may not necessarily be the way that you need to do it in the future. So you wanna be, I want people who are already successful, they...

24:17
but they're still hungry. They're hungry for personal growth. They wanna grow their teams and they also wanna see revenue growth in their organizations. And then sort of putting on my University of Chicago hat. So that's sort of the psychographic. But I also think about my group as a portfolio. What I mean is I want certain voices in the room. So like right now I would love to have a person in the staffing or executive search.

24:47
industry because talent's such an issue. So I want to have that voice in the room. So my people, I look as almost like a portfolio. I also look to make sure that I have industry sectors that are either leading or lagging indicators in the economy because those leaders are going to see things first and they can bring that to the group and say, hey, here's what's already happening in

25:16
And so what's happening in my industry is gonna happen to you probably later. And so this portfolio approach, I think, enriches the group and allows everyone to really benefit from the diversity that is inherent in every Vistage group. Fantastic. What about, do you have mixed gender groups? I'm just wondering. Oh, absolutely.

25:46
Not it's people come and go in groups. It serves them well and then they need to move on. Right now I would definitely, I'm definitely looking to add some more female voices to the group. All right, well you heard it here on the founders. Exam clocks. Yes. Thank you. I'm you.

26:10
For this podcast, you provided a lot of articles that you've written over the years. That's a gift. You're a prolific and a polished writer. How do you find the time, Sue? And two, do you believe the ability to write is a skill that leaders must master? Such an interesting question.

26:40
leading does require strong communication skills. And obviously, I think there's many kinds of writing. Yeah, there's academic writing, which I've done published in journals, not necessarily very persuasive, not always persuasive writing. And then there's, you know, writing to to communicate. And so I think that

27:05
I guess I would say, you know, you can be a skilled writer, like a speechwriter, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be a skillful communicator. And I think leaders need a little bit of both. I mean, it's the kind of businesses and leaders that we work with are typically not hiring speechwriters. And so I do think it's an important skill to have if you're a small or medium sized business owner.

27:36
CEO of a huge, you know, fortune 500 company, of course, you can have speech writers write your thing, right, right stuff. And that's a that's a specific skill. So I would say, for our audience, what good or bad, you have to be skilled at writing, but also communicating those words to people. And writing in a way that is going to be persuasive and communicative. And perhaps playful.

28:04
right using humor, which is the topic of today's podcast. You know, when we I was preparing this, you know, I've been pursuing you for quite a while now. Thank you for joining. I did come across in other forums, a book that is accompanied by an assessment test called it's called humor series business. And to

28:31
professors at Stanford's Graduate School of Business have developed a course online to actually discover your type, right? And humorseriously.com. Have you had any experience with this? I thought it took off actually right in the pandemic. And just curious, because we are on the topic of humor and creativity. So,

28:58
what do I love? I love growing and learning and being a life-long learner. And so honestly, Brenda, I had never seen their work or heard about it. So I did watch their YouTube, which I found fascinating. I'm sure you'll include it in the show notes. And it's interesting, not, I think Stanford has done a really interesting job as a business and as a B-school or as a school, I guess I would say, as a university continuing to evolve.

29:24
So actually when I saw that they had this course in their business school, I wasn't surprised. And I actually have followed Stanford for a while because of their D school, their design school. Interesting. And so design thinking is not necessarily only related to the creative arts, but you know, you think about firms like, you know, who started with this concept like IDEO, but you know, this design thinking definitely has some

29:53
some good roots in creativity, innovation, breaking through borders, not thinking about constraints as true constraints and boundaries. And so to me, I wasn't surprised to see that these two were from Stanford. And it was a great listen. Thank you. I too, I was surprised to hear about it and two great schools, University of Chicago and Stanford with great alumni. So...

30:20
I do like to give my guest opportunity to share how you may be contacted. What's the easiest way and this will be in the show notes. Okay, well, I respond to my emails. I also respond to phone calls and voicemails. I love the younger generation that never listen to their voicemails. I actually do. So you can find me via phone at 847-404-7325.

30:47
Email always works and my email is su.tinish, my last at, and then here's the nice long after the at, VistageChair, like a piece of furniture, VistageChair.com. Then I am often on LinkedIn, and so people can DM me on LinkedIn and follow me. They can sign up and subscribe to my newsletter, make a difference. Yeah. Happy to respond any way that people want to.

31:15
Reach out to me, text, phone, email, or DM. Fantastic. So I'd like to bring us back to the founder sandbox and kind of the three cornerstones that I work with founders on and that's around resilience, purpose-driven enterprise and sustainable growth. And by bringing each of my guests back to, hey, what's the meaning of each of these terms? I'm absolutely fascinated that each one of my guests has a different.

31:42
you know, concept and it's so rich to listen. So what does resilience mean to you and your many years as practitioner with CEOs and small to medium sized companies? I'd say the first thing is really having a good balance between positivity and realizing that I have to grow and change and accept feedback. That maybe everything is not.

32:11
So I think especially for entrepreneurs and startups, I mean, you have such great belief in your concept. And so you do have to stick with it and stay positive, but there is that fine balance between accepting feedback and realism. And so I think resilience is balancing those two things appropriately. The second thing, the second characteristic I'd like to call out today is just really...

32:40
facing up to uncertainty. In other words, not being an ostrich and putting my head in the sand. Being resilient to me says, I'm willing to squarely look uncertainty in the face and I may not have all the data that I need. I may not be fully clear on what's the right direction, but resiliency is making that decision, taking responsibility, moving forward.

33:06
and accepting the consequences and then dealing with it all over again. Those are the two things that I think are most important to me personally about resiliency. Thank you. What about purpose-driven enterprise? Harkening back to my PhD where I did something on sustainability. Did you? Yes. So to me, purpose-driven enterprises really mean that you're gonna...

33:34
you will focus on value creation beyond simply profit. And the second quality is that there's really a strong integration in your ecosystem of all your stakeholders, not just shareholders, but that everyone is aligned and integrated and that your strategy is focused on an integrated purpose that serve all stakeholders, customers.

34:02
employees, your vendors, everyone in that ecosystem. And that's it. So you actually were a profit in your own land. Because your PhD, if you wrote on sustainability, I don't know how many years ago, it's just come back full circle, right? Yeah. It's got to be on every CEO's agenda. A triple bottom line. That's right.

34:27
And you heard it here, sustainable growth. So I kind of interchange sustainable with scalable. Again, we work with companies that are growing pretty rapidly. What is the meaning to you for sustainability? So first off, I think there's a difference between running an organization, leading an organization that's growing and leading an organization that's scalable. And so you desire both things,

34:56
you have to build in scale to make sure that you could manage your growth. So that's an element of sustainable growth. And as I alluded to earlier, I do think that this focus on the triple bottom line is really important. And even if you as a leader are not bought into it, think about the kinds of employees that you're hiring and the customers that you're serving as you get younger and younger.

35:24
this triple bottom line is so much more important to them. And so sustainable growth, in my opinion, can only be really fed by that focus on a triple bottom line. Wow. You heard it here. Thank you. Well, I have one last question. Did you have fun in the sandbox today, Sue? Oh, I did. It was fun to dig. It was fun to dig back into the past and think about the future. Yes. So delightful. So thank you so much for inviting me.

35:53
Thank you. The tools and techniques that you provided and just our conversation as well as what will be found in the show notes are invaluable. So thank you for offering these resources to my listeners. To my listeners, if you like this episode with Sue Tenesh, sign up for the monthly release of The Founder's Sandbox. It's available on all major podcast platforms.

36:20
where you're going to learn how to build with strong governance, a resilient, scalable, and purpose-driven company to make profits for good. Signing off. Thank you for being part of the Founders Sandbox.