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Scam Inc: How a $500B Crime Industry is Impacting the World with Sue-Lin Wong

Release Date: 02/16/2025

Why True Global Ventures secure the CMS Licence in Singapore & the future of AI & Crypto with Beatrice Lion

Analyse Asia

"We took a longer time, there was a bit of roundabout, but the fact that we actually made like two or three times on whatever investment amount we did in the beginning - that for me was a very pivotal moment. Just because we didn't give up. The line between success and failure is so thin. So the impact of being a VC space is that you really can influence the technology founders that you back." - Beatrice Lion Fresh out of the studio, Beatrice Lion, the chief executive officer and global partner from True Global Ventures, shares the remarkable story of how she became one of the youngest fund...

Southeast Asia 16 Years Later with Michael Smith Jr & Daniel Cerventus Lim

Analyse Asia

Reuniting after more than a decade since their days in This Week in Asia Podcast from 2009, Michael Smith Jr., co-host of The Generalist podcast, and Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur and community builder in Malaysia, join us for a candid assessment of Southeast Asia's tech ecosystem evolution. In this raw conversation, Michael offers his unflinching perspective on what he calls the 'broken windows era' of Southeast Asian tech, arguing that recent alleged fraud cases like E-Fishery and Tanihub require serious consequences to restore investor confidence, while questioning whether...

Asian Economies & Why Geography and History Matter More Than Economics Models with Jamus Lim

Analyse Asia

"The way that institutions emerge and entrench themselves and become a part of the functioning of an economy and society is because they solve some problems. So they're usually a non-market solution toward solving some problem that the economy, that the market system couldn't necessarily solve. Of course the most prominent example of an institution that solves an. Market problem in the non-market way is a firm, as Ronald Coase, of course very early on, taught us that. When a firm realizes that in some cases when transactions costs are high, you want to internalize things within the firm. That...

Transforming Asia's Financial Infrastructure: Stripe's AI and Stablecoin Strategy with Paul Harapin

Analyse Asia

"APAC represents 40% of global GDP. So you can see that there's huge opportunity in a very, very diverse region. The needs of Japan are different to the needs of China. India is exploding with SaaS, software, AI. Australia one of our larger markets, again, very different. And so Southeast Asia, the complexities of Asia make it a joy to work in." - Paul Harapin Fresh out of the studio, Paul Harapin, Chief Revenue Officer for Asia Pacific and Japan at Stripe, joined us in a conversation discussing Stripe's explosive growth in the region that represents 40% of global GDP. Paul dived deep into how...

Creating Economic Opportunity in the era of AI: LinkedIn's Mission in Asia Pacific with Feon Ang

Analyse Asia

"AI is in the minds of a lot of people right now and naturally with such big technological shift, you find that there is a big skill gap. You know, there is companies demanding skills in this area, and yet naturally in the marketplace, they might have difficulty finding that skills that is required for companies. So, you know, job seekers need to be a lot more conscious in terms of how they are equipping themselves. One of the things is that LinkedIn courses are there [to help]. I always talk about the three affirmative actions that you can do. One is making sure that you are fluent in this...

How Microsoft Research Balances Exploration and Impact Globally with Doug Burger

Analyse Asia

"If you're going to be running a very elite research institution, you have to have the best people. To have the best people, you have to trust them and empower them. You can't hire a world expert in some area and then tell them what to do. They know more than you do. They're smarter than you are in their area. So you've got to trust your people. One of our really foundational commitments to our people is: we trust you. We're going to work to empower you. Go do the thing that you need to do. If somebody in the labs wants to spend 5, 10, 15 years working on something they think is really...

The Truth About China's Generative AI Revolution Nobody Talks About with Grace Shao

Analyse Asia

"China's approach is very pragmatic. People have been saying DeepSeek did it out of necessity. There's obviously a GPU constraint and hardware constraint in China, something they're working around. In many ways, the engineering genius and engineering innovation is what set DeepSeek apart. It challenged a global narrative around needing more GPUs and more money to get better AI. It was about throwing capital at the problem. It was a different approach because the capital ecosystem in China itself is very different. People talk about proof of concept - you have to prove your concept first in...

Enabling AI at Scale: Governance as Competitive Advantage with David Hardoon

Analyse Asia

"[Question: So what was the biggest misconception for most business leaders usually when it comes to operationalizing AI governance?] Based on my interactions and conversations, now suddenly they think they have to erect a whole set of new committees, that they have to have these new programs. You almost hear a sigh from the room. Like, oh, we have now this whole additional compliance cost because we have to do all these new things. The reason I see that as a bit of a misconception, because building on everything that was just said earlier, you already have compliance, you already have...

The Future of AI Trust: Why Guardrails Actually Accelerate Innovation with Sabastian Niles

Analyse Asia

"You can try to develop self-awareness and take a beginner's mind in all things. This includes being open to feedback and truly listening, even when it might be hard to receive. I think that's been something I've really tried to practice. The other area is recognizing that just like a company or country, as humans we have many stakeholders. You may wear many hats in different ways. So as we think of the totality of your life over time, what's your portfolio of passions? How do you choose—as individuals, as society, as organizations, as humans and families with our loved ones and friends—to...

How Apple Accidentally Built China's Tech Superpower and Can't Escape with Patrick McGee

Analyse Asia

"I quote a study that looked at 84 countries in terms of internal migration and India was dead last. That's not a knock against the culture. It's just not part of the culture that young women in particular leave home at 17, go to the other side of the country and work in a factory. You don't have that. So what's the phrase: Culture eats strategy for breakfast. Apple might have a plan, but like good luck upending 5,000 years of Indian culture to make it happen." - Patrick McGee, author of "Apple in China" Fresh out of the studio, Patrick McGee, San Francisco correspondent for the...

More Episodes

"We're all vulnerable. And I hadn't thought about that previously. I thought, oh, it's only a small group of people who might fall for this. What I've learned is actually [that] these scammers are so sophisticated. They have so much money. Based on my reporting, this industry, you know, is maybe more lucrative than the illicit drug trade, and these criminal syndicates might be making over 500 billion US dollars a year. So that means they have access to the latest technology, whether it's voice cloning or face changing software. They can buy the latest in AI tools. they can stay several steps ahead of most law enforcement organizations in most places in the world, and, you know, re-invest in their businesses, because that's how they view what they're doing. They just see this as a business line, and they want to make a profit. That's why we called the podcast Scam Inc, because I think the way to understand what we're seeing is that this is an industry and everyone's driven by profits. So the fact that the criminals have so much money makes it really difficult for governments, police or international organizations or banks or crypto exchanges or social media companies to tackle this huge and growing problem." - Sue-Lin Wong

Fresh out of the studio, Sue-Lin Wong, Southeast Asia Correspondent for The Economist, joins us to uncover the dark world of online scams and how they’ve evolved into a $500 billion global crime industry. She shares her investigative journey behind Scam Inc., her latest podcast series, revealing how cybercriminal syndicates operate like multinational corporations—leveraging AI, crypto, and human trafficking to fuel their scams. Sue-Lin explains why Southeast Asia has become a hub for these illicit operations, the psychological manipulation that makes anyone vulnerable, and the deep-rooted connections between scamming, money laundering, and political corruption. We discuss the Kansas bank collapse, the rise of pig butchering scams, and how law enforcement struggles to keep up with decentralized criminal networks. Closing the conversation, Sue-Lin highlights what individuals, governments, and financial institutions must do to fight back against the next wave of AI-powered fraud.

Audio Episode Highlights:
[00:00:46] – Opening Quote by Wong Sue-Lin #QOTD
[00:02:12] – Bernard’s Introduction & Podcast Overview
[00:03:09] – Sue-Lin’s Journalism Journey: From Reuters to The Economist
[00:05:58] – The Birth of Scam Inc.: Investigating the Industry
[00:07:16] – The Changing Face of Crime: The ‘Gig Economy’ of Scamming
[00:10:13] – The Meaning of ‘Pig Butchering’ Scams & Their Chinese Origins
[00:14:34] – How COVID-19 Turned Scams Into a Global Epidemic
[00:16:33] – Inside Scam Compounds: The Story of Rita from the Philippines
[00:21:15] – The Alice Guo Scandal: Political Corruption & Scams in the Philippines
[00:25:33] – How Scammers Launder Billions & The Role of Crypto
[00:30:14] – Why Crypto Isn’t as Anonymous as Criminals Think
[00:35:46] – AI-Driven Scams: The Next Frontier of Cybercrime
[00:42:10] – Solutions: What Governments & Companies Must Do
[00:44:46] – How Individuals Can Protect Themselves
[00:50:46] – Final Thoughts & The Future of Scam Inc.

Profile: Sue-Lin Wong, Southeast Asia Correspondent, The Economist
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suelinwong/
, Host of "Scam Inc" podcast series by The Economist: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc [Subscription Required]. Picture Credits in Marketing Image: Logo from The Economist Podcasts.

Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast.

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