Southeast Asia 16 Years Later with Michael Smith Jr & Daniel Cerventus Lim
Release Date: 09/04/2025
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Southeast Asia 16 Years Later with Michael Smith Jr & Daniel Cerventus Lim
Analyse Asia
Reuniting after more than a decade since their days in This Week in Asia Podcast from 2009, Michael Smith Jr., co-host of The Generalist podcast, and Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur and community builder in Malaysia, join us for a candid assessment of Southeast Asia's tech ecosystem evolution. In this raw conversation, Michael offers his unflinching perspective on what he calls the 'broken windows era' of Southeast Asian tech, arguing that recent alleged fraud cases like E-Fishery and Tanihub require serious consequences to restore investor confidence, while questioning whether...
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"APAC represents 40% of global GDP. So you can see that there's huge opportunity in a very, very diverse region. The needs of Japan are different to the needs of China. India is exploding with SaaS, software, AI. Australia one of our larger markets, again, very different. And so Southeast Asia, the complexities of Asia make it a joy to work in." - Paul Harapin Fresh out of the studio, Paul Harapin, Chief Revenue Officer for Asia Pacific and Japan at Stripe, joined us in a conversation discussing Stripe's explosive growth in the region that represents 40% of global GDP. Paul dived deep into how...
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Enabling AI at Scale: Governance as Competitive Advantage with David Hardoon
Analyse Asia
"[Question: So what was the biggest misconception for most business leaders usually when it comes to operationalizing AI governance?] Based on my interactions and conversations, now suddenly they think they have to erect a whole set of new committees, that they have to have these new programs. You almost hear a sigh from the room. Like, oh, we have now this whole additional compliance cost because we have to do all these new things. The reason I see that as a bit of a misconception, because building on everything that was just said earlier, you already have compliance, you already have...
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The Future of AI Trust: Why Guardrails Actually Accelerate Innovation with Sabastian Niles
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"You can try to develop self-awareness and take a beginner's mind in all things. This includes being open to feedback and truly listening, even when it might be hard to receive. I think that's been something I've really tried to practice. The other area is recognizing that just like a company or country, as humans we have many stakeholders. You may wear many hats in different ways. So as we think of the totality of your life over time, what's your portfolio of passions? How do you choose—as individuals, as society, as organizations, as humans and families with our loved ones and friends—to...
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How Apple Accidentally Built China's Tech Superpower and Can't Escape with Patrick McGee
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"I quote a study that looked at 84 countries in terms of internal migration and India was dead last. That's not a knock against the culture. It's just not part of the culture that young women in particular leave home at 17, go to the other side of the country and work in a factory. You don't have that. So what's the phrase: Culture eats strategy for breakfast. Apple might have a plan, but like good luck upending 5,000 years of Indian culture to make it happen." - Patrick McGee, author of "Apple in China" Fresh out of the studio, Patrick McGee, San Francisco correspondent for the...
info_outlineReuniting after more than a decade since their days in This Week in Asia Podcast from 2009, Michael Smith Jr., co-host of The Generalist podcast, and Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur and community builder in Malaysia, join us for a candid assessment of Southeast Asia's tech ecosystem evolution. In this raw conversation, Michael offers his unflinching perspective on what he calls the 'broken windows era' of Southeast Asian tech, arguing that recent alleged fraud cases like E-Fishery and Tanihub require serious consequences to restore investor confidence, while questioning whether the region was ever correctly modelled for Silicon Valley-style outcomes. Daniel shares his pivot from startup founder to search fund advocate, explaining his bullish view on acquiring profitable traditional businesses and reflects on whether the region's potential was genuinely unrealized or simply impossible to achieve. Together, they explore the shift from venture-backed unicorn dreams to bootstrap realities, debate work ethic of Southeast Asia founders in comparison with Chinese and Indian founders, and discuss why the future of Southeast Asian tech may lie in smaller, profitable exits rather than the massive IPOs once envisioned.
"I think wealth creation here is very SME-focused." - Daniel Cerventus Lim
"Basically whether, it's SME or startup, to me now it's just: can you build a profitable business?" - Bernard Leong
"I have this philosophy that I think people don't agree with me, but we're in a broken Windows era of Southeast Asia and the only way in my opinion, the windows get fixed is if some of these people are behind bars." - Michael Smith Jr.
Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Quote of the Day by Daniel Cerventus, Bernard Leong & Michael Smith JR
[00:59] Introduction: Daniel Cerventus and Michael Smith Jr. from the Generalists Podcast
[06:00] Multiple alleged frauds in Southeast Asia: E-Fishery, Tanihub
[09:57] Southeast Asia in "broken windows era"
[11:26] Only exits from seed to Series A
[11:47] B rounds virtually gone, A rounds endangered.
[14:00] 50-100 million exits still viable
[16:30] Malaysian crypto companies globally focused
[19:25] Country expansion model in ASEAN doesn't work
[23:02] Israel model: never think local market
[24:15] Razer story: HP Mafia network backing
[25:07] Supabase: not really Singapore capital, but globally successful
[30:18] Chinese founders arriving with speed
[31:19] Work ethic comparisons with India
[32:34] Search funds emerging in Singapore
[37:25] Mainstream media ignores bootstrap success
[39:50] Search fund model targeting aging operators
[41:21] SME vs startup distinction blurring
[46:20] Hedge funds questioning regional companies
[49:32] Unrealized vs impossible potential debate
[51:07] Bangladesh ecosystem showing promise
[53:20] Structural exit issues remain unsolved
[54:31] Reset creating better founder discipline
[55:40] Optimistic on Southeast Asia's startup ecosystem
[57:21] Closing
Profile:
Michael Smith Jr., Tech Evangelist from Oracle & Co-Host, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smittysgp/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGeneralistsPodcast
Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur, Community Builder in Malaysia and TEDxKL founder. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cerventus/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/80164351656
Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format.
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