The Truth About the American Church's Complicity in Racism (And Where We Go From Here)
Release Date: 09/18/2025
Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: How Chris got started in Worship ministry How the explosion of a worship industry has malformed us for local church ministry Why we need Worship Pastors in the church What unique challenges Worship Leaders are facing today The downsides to the seeker sensitive movement in the American Church How worship leaders and lead pastors can develop a healthy partnership Leadership skills every worship pastor needs to develop in a multisite context Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management...
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Leadership Lessons For All From The History Of The Black Church with L. Michelle Smith
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Something I am so grateful for is the leadership experience I received growing up in the church. From a young age, I got involved in worship teams. I led small groups. I developed skills. I was put on stages I had no business being on. Church wasn’t just a weekly service we attended. It was a leadership incubator. L. Michelle Smith has written a new book called Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From the Black Church. In it she discusses how the Black Church has historically developed high level business leaders. The book borrows from culture, neuroscience, and positive psychology to...
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Making Worship Music That Doesn't Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
There’s an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough? On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we’ll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there’s also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don’t think that can be debated. So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective? What does the Bible teach...
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Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with Dr. David O. Taylor
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: The difference between formation and experience in worship Why our current model of worship experiences isn't wrong, but inadequate The value of silence in our gatherings Why we need artists in the church Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by W. David O. Taylor Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and...
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Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: Brittany's faith tradition growing up The need for liberation theology and what it means for the local church The importance of unlearning and contextualizing theology Noticing how white supremacy undermines the prosperity of black people The defunding of HBCUs and what that means for black thriving in America What it means to be a red letter Christian Politics and faith The prophetic witness of the Black Church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by C. Eric Lincoln & Lawrence H. Mamiya by Kristen Kobes Du Mez Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning...
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Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: Calvin's journey as a worship leader The reality of starting music later in life Why we shouldn't be afraid of frequent new songs Why diversity is important How the Christian music industry needs to change Why God still has a plan for you The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going...
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When Worship Gets Political with David Gate
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda Why it's not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room The difference between empathy and worship Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it Pro...
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Why It's OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi - veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor. We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage....
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How The Western Church Has Been Shaped to Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About it) with Joash P. Thomas
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Justice - when you hear that word what do you think of? The word carries some baggage in the church today and has become highly politicized. Too much justice talk and you can be dismissed as Marxist, woke, or a proponent of the “unbiblical” social justice gospel. But if you can remove yourself from cultural baggage, read the Bible with fresh eyes, and look at the life of Jesus, you see justice everywhere. Justice was central to the life and mission of Jesus. And it should be to his followers as well. One of the best books I’ve read on the topic is a new book by Joash Thomas called ....
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An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church in America with Phillip Joubert
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
One of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some...
info_outlineToday’s conversation is with historian, author, and activist Dr. Jemar Tisby.
Early in 2025 I decided to read more history. Call it curiosity or wanting more context to our current political moment, I started to devour books about the Civil War and eventually more books about the Civil Rights era. One of those books was The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church’s Complicity in Racism. And to be honest, I was blown away by this book. Mainly because I had never learned this stuff growing up. I’d learned history…but I hadn’t learned this history.
Why does this matter? I believe to my core that if we are unwilling to face and reckon with the darker parts of our history, we will continue to make the same mistakes. A quote that has been attributed to Mark Twain: History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme.
We are living in an incredibly dangerous and polarizing political moment in America. And like Jemary Tisby says in our podcast…what happens in culture is downstream of what happens in the church.
So we’re going to face some hard truths today. Reckon with some hard truths. And come out better on the other side. Jamar is a brilliant scholar and teacher. He’s bold yet gracious. And I’m excited to share this conversation with you today.
As always, thank you for listening. This is David Santistevan and you can reach out to me at any time at david@beyondsundayworship.com
Topics Covered:
- Jamar's salvation story in the white evangelical church
- What the Mississippi Delta teaches us about American racism
- The church's complicity in racism throughout history
- Doug Wilson and the spread of racist ideology
- The unique atrocity of American race-based, chattel slavery
- Why leftist, Marxist, DEI deflections are lazy and don't make sense
- Racial bias in the Christian Music industry
- US churches who are speaking out about racial injustice and justice work
Resources Mentioned
- Jemar Tisby Substack
- The Color of Compromise: The Truth About The American Church's Complicity in Racism by Jamar Tisby
- The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, & Resistance by Jamar Tisby
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.
It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.
First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.
In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping inform