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Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Release Date: 08/06/2026

Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart show art Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Not all spiritual formation is created equal. Just because you read your Bible, pray, and go to church every Sunday does not mean you are being renewed - as Colossians 3:10 says - in the image and knowledge of your creator. A very good litmus test for us as followers of Jesus is…do we look like Jesus? Do we love what Jesus loved? Do we love whom Jesus loved? Do we speak as Jesus spoke? Do we embody what Jesus lived and died for? That has been the historical definition of a Christian for generations: little Christs.  With the rise of Christian nationalism in our present day, many outside...

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When I was a young teenager, I heard a traveling evangelist say the best form of therapy was speaking in tongues. The preacher at the time was criticizing modern therapy as unchristian and, ultimately unnecessary. We don’t need to sit in rooms and endless unpack our problems and our past trauma. What people need more than anything - he said - is the presence of God. I understand the sentiment. I love the presence of God. I believe there is tremendous value in spiritual disciplines, practices, and experiences with God. But what happens to our formation as people when we are trained to be...

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If you’re like me, a child of the 80s, you grew up watching Star Wars. I understood a lot about Star Wars but what I didn’t understand at the time was how political it was. The empire and the rebellion. Resistance. Fighting for the underdog and the oppressed. Fighting for an alternative way of being that is not dictated by empire. One of my goals with this podcast is to create a diverse platform of voices within the church. Voices on the margins. Artists on the margins. Theologians on the margins. One of those important voices is author and Cuban-American theologian Kat Armas. One of my...

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Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

The idea of worship is simple. Uncomplicated. When you think about it, worship is ascribing worth to someone or something. As people of faith, we ascribe to God the worth, praise and adoration that He is due. But worship that intersects with industry and organizations is inherently complicated. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That the worship industry is wrong or all mega church worship is unbiblical. What it means that it’s complicated and it’s worth the wrestle. Today’s guest is Anna Golden - a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. Anna is a worship leader at Shoreline City Church...

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Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Throughout church history there has always been an interesting tension between creativity and functionality. What is more important? Creating beautiful things or getting a certain message across? What is more important to worship? Right theology or beautiful art that displays the glory of God? Do we need better theology in our songs or more honesty? We intuitively know this is a tension to manage, not a problem to solv  e. No one would argue that theology doesn’t matter. But has our pursuit of rightness caused us to lose some imagination? Some humanity? Has our church culture fixation...

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Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I’m not a Lead Pastor, but I can’t imagine anything more difficult than pastoring in today’s political climate. We feel that these days are unique, but in reality they are not. History has much to teach us. Occasionally I like to bring Lead Pastors onto the podcast to talk about how they’re navigating cultural issues. My guest today is Evan Wickham. Evan is the older brother of Phil Wickham, also a worship leader and songwriter, and the pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, California. Here’s what’s interesting: In his very church, he has a Christian Border Patrol Agent and...

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Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

When I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there’s nothing wrong with those dynamics - there was something I wasn’t considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche - a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It’s the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot. So today, we’re going to talk about worship...

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The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson show art The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Topics Covered: Developing a theology of suffering The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care The story behind Michael's book title, "Daddy Set The Church on Fire" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Michael Charles Olson by Michael Charles Olson Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry...

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Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

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More Episodes

Not all spiritual formation is created equal. Just because you read your Bible, pray, and go to church every Sunday does not mean you are being renewed - as Colossians 3:10 says - in the image and knowledge of your creator.

A very good litmus test for us as followers of Jesus is…do we look like Jesus? Do we love what Jesus loved? Do we love whom Jesus loved? Do we speak as Jesus spoke? Do we embody what Jesus lived and died for?

That has been the historical definition of a Christian for generations: little Christs. 

With the rise of Christian nationalism in our present day, many outside the church look at Christianity in America and wonder, what does it actually mean to be a Christian?

One of my favorite books in the last year was Making it Plain: Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Dr. Drew G.I. Hart. So I wanted to bring him on the show to talk about the history of anabaptism. The history of the black church. And what we can learn about following Jesus today.

Drew is an author, speaker, and professor of theology at Messiah University in Pennsylvania. With a decade of pastoral experience, Drew is a leading voice in Christian ethics, black theology, and anabaptism.

Topics Covered:

  • Drew's upbringing in "Black evangelicalism"
  • The difference between "Black Evangelicalism" and "Black Liberation Theology"
  • The history of Anabaptism, its victories and vices
  • The multicultural reality of Anabaptism globally
  • The Christendom mindset and its influence today
  • The history of colonial conquest in America and the birth of the Black Church
  • How The Black Church balances out Anabaptism
  • What went wrong with Christopher Columbus and his spiritual formation
  • Why liberation theology is often resisted
  • The Black Lives Matter movement and why it is so often resisted

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.