loader from loading.io

How Charisma Has Shaped American History and Church History with Molly Worthen

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Release Date: 10/16/2025

Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart show art Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Not all spiritual formation is created equal. Just because you read your Bible, pray, and go to church every Sunday does not mean you are being renewed - as Colossians 3:10 says - in the image and knowledge of your creator. A very good litmus test for us as followers of Jesus is…do we look like Jesus? Do we love what Jesus loved? Do we love whom Jesus loved? Do we speak as Jesus spoke? Do we embody what Jesus lived and died for? That has been the historical definition of a Christian for generations: little Christs.  With the rise of Christian nationalism in our present day, many outside...

info_outline
Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey show art Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

When I was a young teenager, I heard a traveling evangelist say the best form of therapy was speaking in tongues. The preacher at the time was criticizing modern therapy as unchristian and, ultimately unnecessary. We don’t need to sit in rooms and endless unpack our problems and our past trauma. What people need more than anything - he said - is the presence of God. I understand the sentiment. I love the presence of God. I believe there is tremendous value in spiritual disciplines, practices, and experiences with God. But what happens to our formation as people when we are trained to be...

info_outline
The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche show art The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I remember my days as a young worship leader. There was always this unspoken tension between being performative and pastoral. Is it my job as a worship leader to provide a powerful, exciting experience or to guide them in a healthy practice for their spiritual formation? When we say worship was really good this week, what do we mean? If you lead worship, you know the tension. When you put a singer or musician on a stage, under the lights, it is by definition a performance. Performance is not a bad thing,but we, at the same time feel uncomfortable talking about performance when it comes to...

info_outline
Empire, Resistance, And Faith On The Margins With Kat Armas show art Empire, Resistance, And Faith On The Margins With Kat Armas

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

If you’re like me, a child of the 80s, you grew up watching Star Wars. I understood a lot about Star Wars but what I didn’t understand at the time was how political it was. The empire and the rebellion. Resistance. Fighting for the underdog and the oppressed. Fighting for an alternative way of being that is not dictated by empire. One of my goals with this podcast is to create a diverse platform of voices within the church. Voices on the margins. Artists on the margins. Theologians on the margins. One of those important voices is author and Cuban-American theologian Kat Armas. One of my...

info_outline
The Uncomfortable Intersection Of Business And Worship with Anna Golden show art The Uncomfortable Intersection Of Business And Worship with Anna Golden

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

The idea of worship is simple. Uncomplicated. When you think about it, worship is ascribing worth to someone or something. As people of faith, we ascribe to God the worth, praise and adoration that He is due. But worship that intersects with industry and organizations is inherently complicated. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That the worship industry is wrong or all mega church worship is unbiblical. What it means that it’s complicated and it’s worth the wrestle. Today’s guest is Anna Golden - a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. Anna is a worship leader at Shoreline City Church...

info_outline
Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan show art Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Throughout church history there has always been an interesting tension between creativity and functionality. What is more important? Creating beautiful things or getting a certain message across? What is more important to worship? Right theology or beautiful art that displays the glory of God? Do we need better theology in our songs or more honesty? We intuitively know this is a tension to manage, not a problem to solv  e. No one would argue that theology doesn’t matter. But has our pursuit of rightness caused us to lose some imagination? Some humanity? Has our church culture fixation...

info_outline
Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham show art Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I’m not a Lead Pastor, but I can’t imagine anything more difficult than pastoring in today’s political climate. We feel that these days are unique, but in reality they are not. History has much to teach us. Occasionally I like to bring Lead Pastors onto the podcast to talk about how they’re navigating cultural issues. My guest today is Evan Wickham. Evan is the older brother of Phil Wickham, also a worship leader and songwriter, and the pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, California. Here’s what’s interesting: In his very church, he has a Christian Border Patrol Agent and...

info_outline
How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany show art How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

When I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there’s nothing wrong with those dynamics - there was something I wasn’t considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche - a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It’s the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot. So today, we’re going to talk about worship...

info_outline
The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson show art The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Topics Covered: Developing a theology of suffering The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care The story behind Michael's book title, "Daddy Set The Church on Fire" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Michael Charles Olson by Michael Charles Olson Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry...

info_outline
What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman show art What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Part of what I love to do with this podcast is highlight some voices that often get overlooked. Cultures that are often pushed to the margins of influence in the Church but have so much to offer us. Today I’m speaking with Terry Wildman. Terry is the Lead Translator of the First Nations Version of the Bible. Currently there is a New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs available. And the Old Testament is currently being developed. Terry is a man with native ancestry who grew up in Michigan, was saved during the Jesus Movement, and became pastor early on in his life. What’s fascinating about...

info_outline
 
More Episodes

What happens when Americans lose faith in their religious institutions - and politicians fill the void? As you study the scope of American history - and church history in America - you see an interesting connection to charisma. Charismatic leaders rise to prominence and galvanize a following. From the puritans and Andrew Jackson to black nationalists and Donald trump, the saga of American charisma stars figures who possess a bewildering power to move crowds. Charismatic leaders address spiritual needs, inviting followers into a story that gives them knowledge, power, and heroic status, whether as divinely chosen instruments of God or those who will restore national glory.

This is the subject of historian Molly Worthen’s new book Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From the Puritans to Donald Trump. Molly is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a freelance journalist. She teaches courses on North American religion and politics, global Christianity, and the history of ideas. Suffice it to say she is brilliant.

I wanted to talk to Molly because her new book feels relevant to our current political climate, but also because charisma the personality trait and charisma the power of the Holy Spirit - is important to understand church history. It’s also important to understand worship and church and the gatherings that we lead.

Topics Covered:

  • The declining trust in institutions from 1970 until now
  • The difference between charisma and charm
  • The charismatic leaders of 20th century religious revivals
  • The rise of hyper partisan politics in the American Church
  • What we can learn from the life and politics of Charlie Kirk

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!