loader from loading.io

How Charisma Has Shaped American History and Church History with Molly Worthen

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Release Date: 10/16/2025

Transformational vs. Transactional Faith With Jonathan R. Bailey show art Transformational vs. Transactional Faith With Jonathan R. Bailey

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

What is spiritual formation? What does it mean to follow Jesus? How do we change and transform? Does it happen in a moment or develop over a lifetime? So much of modern evangelicalism is oriented towards encounter - powerful experiences. I - for one - am grateful for powerful experiences I’ve had in the presence of God. But when we frame spiritual growth as a moment - as an encounter - what are we missing out on? In what ways are we being malformed? This is the subject of my conversation with Jonathan R. Bailey, author of the new book Dwelling in Christ: Discover the Threefold Path of...

info_outline
A Fresh Perspective On Worship With Jason Upton show art A Fresh Perspective On Worship With Jason Upton

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Topics Covered: Jason's adoption story and upbringing Learning about God from different streams of historic Christianity Why worship is more than just expression Whether Jason sees himself as a worship leader The pressure to be a Christian influencer When to be spontaneous in worship Song stories

info_outline
Apologetics, Disappointing Faith, And When Heroes Fall with Lisa Fields show art Apologetics, Disappointing Faith, And When Heroes Fall with Lisa Fields

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

If you’re a follower of Jesus, you know you’re supposed to share your faith.We’re supposed to tell others about Jesus. But it’s often a topic that gives any Christian anxiety. What if I don’t know how to articulate what I believe? What if someone asks me a difficult question I don’t know how to answer? What if I’m a terrible Christian, fail in my defense, get laughed at, and the name of Christ is disrespected because I don’t know what I’m talking about? Take a deep breath… Lisa Fields is the CEO and founder of Jude 3 Project, a leading apologetics organization dedicated to...

info_outline
How Studying History Can Help The Church Tell The Truth, Face Reality, & Confront Harmful Systems with Kristin Kobes Du Mez show art How Studying History Can Help The Church Tell The Truth, Face Reality, & Confront Harmful Systems with Kristin Kobes Du Mez

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Maya Angelou once said, “"History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, however, if faced with courage, need not be lived again." The discipline of reading and studying history is not to make us feel good. It’s to instruct us so we don’t repeat the same mistakes. One of the greatest living historians of American Christianity is Kristin Kobes Du Mez. Her book Jesus And John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation explores how American evangelicalism embraced militant masculinity and Christian nationalism. It was released in 2020 and was a worldwide...

info_outline
The Hopeful Alternative to Christian Nationalism And Deconstruction with Pastor Brian Zahnd show art The Hopeful Alternative to Christian Nationalism And Deconstruction with Pastor Brian Zahnd

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

A question I have wrestled with is…what makes the CHURCH different in the midst of our modern culture? What makes our local churches different than what other organizations have to offer? What happens when our local churches become oriented merely towards pragmatism? That’s what I talk about with Pastor and Author Brian Zahnd. Brian is the pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, MO and is no stranger to the Beyond Sunday Podcast. He has a new book called Unseen Existences: Of Heaven, Earth, and the Divine Mystery in All Things. This is a conversation about the church. About the Bible....

info_outline
The Worship Industry, Christian Music, & Rediscovering Faith with Gable Price show art The Worship Industry, Christian Music, & Rediscovering Faith with Gable Price

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

If you’ve listened to this podcast at all in the past, you probably have some connection to either Christian music or worship music. Maybe you love it and worship music and Christian radio helps you get through the day. Maybe you’re a worship leader, always on the lookout for great worship songs for your church to sing. But maybe you have a love/hate relationship with the Christian music industry. You’ve been burned by it. You’ve seen how the sausage is made. This is a tension I hold. I love worship music. It’s been deeply formative in my life. But there is a current that exists...

info_outline
Christian Resilience, Women In Ministry, And The Attractiveness of Anglicanism With Tish Harrison Warren show art Christian Resilience, Women In Ministry, And The Attractiveness of Anglicanism With Tish Harrison Warren

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I think so many of us are longing for a faith that meets us right where we are. A faith that we can practice in school car line. At work. On a hospital bed. During a pandemic. A faith that is not merely escapism or triumphalism but a real faith in Christ that works not for the benefits it gives us, but for the ways it opens us up to the mystery of God. A faith that leaves room for questions, doubts, and one in which we don’t have to perform to perfection. That’s why I love the writing of Tish Harrison Warren. Listen to these book titles: Liturgy of the Ordinary. Prayer In The Night. And...

info_outline
Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart show art Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Not all spiritual formation is created equal. Just because you read your Bible, pray, and go to church every Sunday does not mean you are being renewed - as Colossians 3:10 says - in the image and knowledge of your creator. A very good litmus test for us as followers of Jesus is…do we look like Jesus? Do we love what Jesus loved? Do we love whom Jesus loved? Do we speak as Jesus spoke? Do we embody what Jesus lived and died for? That has been the historical definition of a Christian for generations: little Christs.  With the rise of Christian nationalism in our present day, many outside...

info_outline
Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey show art Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

When I was a young teenager, I heard a traveling evangelist say the best form of therapy was speaking in tongues. The preacher at the time was criticizing modern therapy as unchristian and, ultimately unnecessary. We don’t need to sit in rooms and endless unpack our problems and our past trauma. What people need more than anything - he said - is the presence of God. I understand the sentiment. I love the presence of God. I believe there is tremendous value in spiritual disciplines, practices, and experiences with God. But what happens to our formation as people when we are trained to be...

info_outline
The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche show art The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I remember my days as a young worship leader. There was always this unspoken tension between being performative and pastoral. Is it my job as a worship leader to provide a powerful, exciting experience or to guide them in a healthy practice for their spiritual formation? When we say worship was really good this week, what do we mean? If you lead worship, you know the tension. When you put a singer or musician on a stage, under the lights, it is by definition a performance. Performance is not a bad thing,but we, at the same time feel uncomfortable talking about performance when it comes to...

info_outline
 
More Episodes

What happens when Americans lose faith in their religious institutions - and politicians fill the void? As you study the scope of American history - and church history in America - you see an interesting connection to charisma. Charismatic leaders rise to prominence and galvanize a following. From the puritans and Andrew Jackson to black nationalists and Donald trump, the saga of American charisma stars figures who possess a bewildering power to move crowds. Charismatic leaders address spiritual needs, inviting followers into a story that gives them knowledge, power, and heroic status, whether as divinely chosen instruments of God or those who will restore national glory.

This is the subject of historian Molly Worthen’s new book Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From the Puritans to Donald Trump. Molly is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a freelance journalist. She teaches courses on North American religion and politics, global Christianity, and the history of ideas. Suffice it to say she is brilliant.

I wanted to talk to Molly because her new book feels relevant to our current political climate, but also because charisma the personality trait and charisma the power of the Holy Spirit - is important to understand church history. It’s also important to understand worship and church and the gatherings that we lead.

Topics Covered:

  • The declining trust in institutions from 1970 until now
  • The difference between charisma and charm
  • The charismatic leaders of 20th century religious revivals
  • The rise of hyper partisan politics in the American Church
  • What we can learn from the life and politics of Charlie Kirk

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!