An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church in America with Phillip Joubert
Release Date: 11/18/2025
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: Developing a theology of suffering The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care The story behind Michael's book title, "Daddy Set The Church on Fire" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Michael Charles Olson by Michael Charles Olson Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry...
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Part of what I love to do with this podcast is highlight some voices that often get overlooked. Cultures that are often pushed to the margins of influence in the Church but have so much to offer us. Today I’m speaking with Terry Wildman. Terry is the Lead Translator of the First Nations Version of the Bible. Currently there is a New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs available. And the Old Testament is currently being developed. Terry is a man with native ancestry who grew up in Michigan, was saved during the Jesus Movement, and became pastor early on in his life. What’s fascinating about...
info_outlineBeyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Humans disagree on a lot of things. Religion. Politics. The best brand of peanut butter. But if there’s one area where we can find some common ground, it’s productivity. Getting stuff done. We all - to a certain degree - have to cross items off our to-do list. Whether you’re a stay-at-home parent, Fortune 500 CEO, pastor, or entrepreneur, you have to take action on the goals that matter to you. That’s why I’m talking to author/speaker Jon Acuff. He’s written a book called Procrastination Proof that simultaneously makes me feel seen and convicted at the same time. You see, I’m a...
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Topics Covered: Zach's journey of coming to Christ Following Jesus and suffering Why we need to understand the historical context of the Bible How to read the Bible accurately Out of context Bible verses The clumsiness of prayer How to create a habit of prayer and Bible reading Coffee routines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Zach Windahl by Cal Newport by Charles Duhigg by James Clear Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a...
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Topics Covered: How Chris got started in Worship ministry How the explosion of a worship industry has malformed us for local church ministry Why we need Worship Pastors in the church What unique challenges Worship Leaders are facing today The downsides to the seeker sensitive movement in the American Church How worship leaders and lead pastors can develop a healthy partnership Leadership skills every worship pastor needs to develop in a multisite context Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management...
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Something I am so grateful for is the leadership experience I received growing up in the church. From a young age, I got involved in worship teams. I led small groups. I developed skills. I was put on stages I had no business being on. Church wasn’t just a weekly service we attended. It was a leadership incubator. L. Michelle Smith has written a new book called Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From the Black Church. In it she discusses how the Black Church has historically developed high level business leaders. The book borrows from culture, neuroscience, and positive psychology to...
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There’s an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough? On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we’ll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there’s also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don’t think that can be debated. So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective? What does the Bible teach...
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Topics Covered: The difference between formation and experience in worship Why our current model of worship experiences isn't wrong, but inadequate The value of silence in our gatherings Why we need artists in the church Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by W. David O. Taylor Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and...
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Topics Covered: Brittany's faith tradition growing up The need for liberation theology and what it means for the local church The importance of unlearning and contextualizing theology Noticing how white supremacy undermines the prosperity of black people The defunding of HBCUs and what that means for black thriving in America What it means to be a red letter Christian Politics and faith The prophetic witness of the Black Church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by C. Eric Lincoln & Lawrence H. Mamiya by Kristen Kobes Du Mez Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning...
info_outlineBeyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: Calvin's journey as a worship leader The reality of starting music later in life Why we shouldn't be afraid of frequent new songs Why diversity is important How the Christian music industry needs to change Why God still has a plan for you The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going...
info_outlineOne of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some systems we’ve held dear need to come down.
Part of being a faithful follower of Jesus in the world is paying attention to what is of God and what is not. And that’s why I wanted to have a conversation with my friend Phillip Joubert. Phillip is an artist with Common Hymnal, one of my favorite Christian artist collectives out there right now. They are making music that is a refreshing counterpoint to popular Christian music today. It’s Jesus AND justice. It’s praise AND protest. It’s worship music that is rooted in the goodness of God but with a grip on the reality of our world. Phillip is a truth teller. A prophet, you might say. The voice of someone who spots trends and speaks with moral clarity and biblical conviction.
Topics Covered:
- Why praise and protest are needed in our spiritual formation
- Why worship culture tends to be tone deaf
- Why we need to decolonize our theology of success
- A different alternative to an industry of worship
- The importance of understanding whiteness as a culture
- Why America needs to be seen as a religion
- Thoughts on Bad Bunny and rival Super Bowl halftime shows
- What we can learn from the Maverick City controversy
Resources Mentioned:
- Show Sponsor: Planning Center
- Phillip Joubert
- Common Hymmal
Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.
As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.
But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?
Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!
No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.
The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!
So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.
All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!