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Gray Territory: Can We Coexist with Wolves? (S5 Ep3)

Laws of Notion

Release Date: 11/12/2025

Coal at Sunset ENCORE: A Look Ahead (S1 Ep.3) show art Coal at Sunset ENCORE: A Look Ahead (S1 Ep.3)

Laws of Notion

In our final episode re-release of Coal at Sunset, we look ahead to 2030. There are estimated to be more than a thousand ghost towns in Colorado. Each one represents a failed economic transition. In 2019, Colorado created the first state-level Office of Just Transition in the nation. It was designed to help coal towns like Craig strategize for the future. Will it be enough to support the residents? And what other opportunities could be on the horizon for a town moving beyond what has defined it for so...

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Coal at Sunset ENCORE: Change is Coming (S1 Ep.2) show art Coal at Sunset ENCORE: Change is Coming (S1 Ep.2)

Laws of Notion

In episode 2 of our re-release of Coal at Sunset, we dive into the Colorado legislature’s boldest step yet toward addressing climate change. In 2019, House Bill 1261 committed Colorado to a 50% reduction in carbon dioxide emissions by 2030 and a 90% reduction by 2050. The bill signaled the beginning of the end for coal plants in the state. For some, the bill was seen as an overreach and another example of the glaring rural-urban divide in America today. When big industries fail or move away, bad things can happen to the small towns that...

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Coal at Sunset ENCORE: The Decision and the Cost (S1 Ep.1) show art Coal at Sunset ENCORE: The Decision and the Cost (S1 Ep.1)

Laws of Notion

It’s been almost five years since our very first season: Coal at Sunset: A Colorado Town in Transition. In 2021, we went to Craig, Colorado, as it grappled with the forthcoming closure of the coal plant and mine that economically anchors the town. But in 2026, a new federal intervention requires the plant to remain open for the time being, putting the town in limbo. So, we are re-releasing our original story about a town on the front lines of the energy transition. Over the next...

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Gray Territory BONUS: Citizen Lawmaking | Decoding Direct Democracy show art Gray Territory BONUS: Citizen Lawmaking | Decoding Direct Democracy

Laws of Notion

This whole series started with a vote.   That vote not only revealed the ongoing debate about reintroducing the gray wolf to Colorado, but also who gets to make decisions and what the best way to do that is. In this interview with direct democracy expert Dr. John Matsusaka, we break down how this system of government functions more broadly, when it is most effective, and the philosophy behind it. The discussion illuminated that what happened in Colorado in 2020 wasn't just a wildlife story; it was a...

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Gray Territory BONUS: Saint or Sinner | Interview with Wolf Biologist David Mech show art Gray Territory BONUS: Saint or Sinner | Interview with Wolf Biologist David Mech

Laws of Notion

David Mech has been researching wolves since 1958 and has authored hundreds of articles and 13 books on wolf behavior and ecology. From his decades of studying wolves across the globe, including Isle Royale, Minnesota, Canada, Italy, Alaska, Yellowstone, Ellesmere Island, and elsewhere, to modern wolf management and conservation, David has witnessed and helped shape decades of evolving scientific understanding. In our deep dive interview with David, hear some of his key...

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Gray Territory: Beyond the Divide (S5 Ep5) show art Gray Territory: Beyond the Divide (S5 Ep5)

Laws of Notion

In our final episode, we examine what the future might hold for wolves, ranchers, advocates, and the people working every day to move us beyond conflict and simplified narratives. From museum specimens that document our shared history to voices on the ground navigating life with the gray wolf, we explore whether Colorado can move beyond the mistrust and pendulum swings toward something sustainable. Because the wolf story is just beginning, and coexistence isn't a destination, but an ongoing practice of adaptation, humility, and seeing the humanity in those with whom we disagree. Learn more...

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Gray Territory: Solutions for Coexistence (S5 Ep4) show art Gray Territory: Solutions for Coexistence (S5 Ep4)

Laws of Notion

There are many tools being tested and deployed to help make coexistence with wolves a reality. Range riders provide a human presence on the landscape night after night to keep wolves at bay. Ongoing conversations between wolf advocates and ranchers to build understanding. Raising money across the state to support non-lethal deterrents for the people who need them most. Testing modern-day technologies like AI alongside traditional ones out in the field to give ranchers a toolbox of options to protect...

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Gray Territory: Can We Coexist with Wolves? (S5 Ep3) show art Gray Territory: Can We Coexist with Wolves? (S5 Ep3)

Laws of Notion

The reintroduction of wolves has created a new reality for many ranchers. While many expected challenges when reintroducing a large predator, the experience on the ground has proven to be both more complex and emotional than they anticipated. The story of the Copper Creek wolf pack brought this to the forefront and has dominated Colorado news headlines. Not only were they some of the first wolves born from the reintroduction effort, but also because of their threat to livestock. In...

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Gray Territory: Whose Voice Counts? (S5 Ep2) show art Gray Territory: Whose Voice Counts? (S5 Ep2)

Laws of Notion

How does the diversity of society’s values and perspectives get incorporated into wildlife decisions? In this episode, we explore the gap between democratic ideals and messy reality, how a vote becomes policy and then becomes lived experience, and who gets heard along the way. We examine how the vote for wolf reintroduction became politicized along partisan lines and whether ballot initiatives undermine scientific expertise in wildlife management. And as the vote evolved into a reintroduction plan, hear both the excitement for the first reintroduced wolves on the ground and the...

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Gray Territory: Wolves Are Back (S5 Ep1) show art Gray Territory: Wolves Are Back (S5 Ep1)

Laws of Notion

By a razor-thin margin in 2020, Colorado voters decided to bring gray wolves back to the landscape. Now, paws are on the ground, and real work is just beginning. For some, wolves returning to the landscape feels like tightening the vice on the already challenging profession of ranching. Yet for others, wolves mean the restoration of an ecosystem that humans deliberately interfered with. What is really behind the tension over wolf reintroduction? Why did it get on the ballot in the first place, and how did this become such a polarizing issue?   Learn more about the podcast at and...

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More Episodes

The reintroduction of wolves has created a new reality for many ranchers. While many expected challenges when reintroducing a large predator, the experience on the ground has proven to be both more complex and emotional than they anticipated. The story of the Copper Creek wolf pack brought this to the forefront and has dominated Colorado news headlines. Not only were they some of the first wolves born from the reintroduction effort, but also because of their threat to livestock. In this episode, we grapple with the early years of wolf reintroduction. What's working and what’s not? And how do we balance what we owe nature with what we owe each other? 

Learn more about the podcast at institute.dmns.org/gray-territory and lawsofnotion.org. 

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The Institute for Science & Policy is a catalyst for thoughtful dialogue, working toward solutions on society’s greatest challenges with scientific thinking, empathy, and inclusivity. The Institute is a project of the Denver Museum of Nature & Science.  

Credits: 

Reporting, writing, hosting: Kristan Uhlenbrock 

Editing, production, marketing: Tricia Waddell 

Editing, fact-checking, production: Jordan Marks 

Sound design: Seth Samuel 

Original music: Composed and performed by Brett Kretzer. Fiddle played by Andy Reiner. Banjo and backing vocals by Dr. Joy Adams. 

Additional music: Epidemic Sound 

Recording Studio: Denver Community Media