Is AI a Threat to CRM?
Contact Center Show
Summary In this episode, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss delve into the current state of Software as a Service (SaaS) and its intersection with artificial intelligence (AI), particularly in the context of contact centers. They discuss the recent downturn in stock prices for major SaaS companies like Salesforce and ServiceNow, attributing this to Wall Street's skepticism about the actual impact of AI on these platforms. Amas expresses concern that the hype surrounding AI is outpacing the reality of its implementation, suggesting that many companies are not yet ready to fully embrace AI-driven...
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Stop Chasing Vanity Metrics
Contact Center Show
Most customer experience goals are meaningless. In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah dismantle the way contact centers set annual CX metrics and explain why leaders keep optimizing numbers that customers neither notice nor value. Using insights from a John Goodman article on CX goal-setting, the conversation exposes the disconnect between executives, customers, and frontline teams—and why automation, deflection, and “respectable” percentage improvements often make service worse, not better. This episode is about shifting from internally convenient metrics to customer-impactful...
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New Year Predictions — What 2025 Got Wrong, What 2026 Gets Right
Contact Center Show
2025 predictions — graded AI-powered knowledge Bob’s 2025 prediction: AI would dramatically improve knowledge in contact centers. Result: Early but mostly wrong. The technology moved, but the data did not. Knowledge bases were too fragmented, too dirty, and too poorly governed for AI to meaningfully improve frontline work. The industry instead spent another year chasing bots, automation, and surface-level “AI assistants.” Grade: C+ The failure was not AI. It was the state of enterprise knowledge. Remote work reversal Bob’s 2025 prediction: Work-from-home would shrink and...
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HOLD — The Suffering Economy of Customer Service
Contact Center Show
Amas Tenumah explains why customer service is not “broken” but intentionally designed to fail. Drawing on decades inside contact centers, historical research, and real corporate incentives, he argues that long waits, deflection, and automation-first strategies are features—not bugs. The conversation dismantles common CX myths, challenges executive complacency, and frames consumer behavior as the only force capable of triggering real change. Core Themes The Suffering Economy of Customer Service: When service is universally bad across industries, it’s systemic. Incentives—not...
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Empowering Sales Teams through AI
Contact Center Show
Summary The conversation explores the integration of AI in sales, focusing on how it enhances customer engagement and improves sales efficiency. Bob Furniss discusses the importance of using data to empower salespeople rather than reducing their numbers, emphasizing a customer-centric approach to AI in sales. Takeaways AI can enhance customer engagement in sales. The focus should be on empowering salespeople with data. AI is not just about reducing costs but improving efficiency. Sales strategies should prioritize customer needs. Data-driven insights can lead to better sales...
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Unlocking Value in Contact Centers with Brad Cleveland
Contact Center Show
Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes. Takeaways there's three levels of value that contact centers create Level one is efficiency customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job it's the strategic insight that AI can provide it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing Here's an opportunity to improve...
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Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough"
Contact Center Show
Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements The Power of Language: Transform "I can't" into "How can we" Shift from "I have to" to "We get to" Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements) Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations The Alignment Problem: CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later" The Pilot Program Strategy: Start small...
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Live from ICMI Conference - HR as a Contact Center with Bianca
Contact Center Show
Episode Summary Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University.
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How Contact Centers Became the Corporate Nervous System (Live from ICMI w Daniel)
Contact Center Show
Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos) Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor Guest Background Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background Surveys audiences and writes research reports Has "front row seat" to industry transformation Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey About the State of the Contact Center Report Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals Covers multiple verticals including: Training and skills Compensation and salary Technology use Leadership perceptions Strategy ...
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Navigating Complexity in Contact Centers (live show w Luke Jamieson)
Contact Center Show
Summary In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers. Takeaways...
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For decades, leaders have debated whether the contact center should be a cost center, a profit center, or something in between. In this episode, Amas and Bob cut through the noise and tackle the question head-on: Is the contact center truly a profit center—or are we just telling the story wrong?
Amas argues that the CFO decides the labels, not us, and that contact centers suffer from being terrible storytellers compared to marketing. Bob reinforces that stories, not spreadsheets, are what move executives to invest in customer experience. Together, they break down how leaders can turn raw data into persuasive narratives that actually secure budget, influence the C-suite, and prove value.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
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Why the “profit center” debate hasn’t gone away—and probably won’t.
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The crucial difference between value creation and revenue generation.
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How marketing gets credit (and budget) despite spending every dollar they touch.
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Why endless Excel spreadsheets put executives to sleep—and what to do instead.
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The art of translating metrics into stories that CFOs and CEOs actually care about.
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Practical steps for contact center leaders to elevate their influence in the boardroom.
Key Quotes:
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“The CFO decides what’s a cost center and what’s a revenue center. We are just bad at telling our story.” – Amas
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“People don’t remember your statistics. They remember your stories.” – Bob
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“Marketing spends money all day, but they’ve convinced the world they’re indispensable. We should learn from that.” – Amas
Episode Highlights:
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(01:00) Revisiting the old debate: profit center vs. cost center.
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(02:30) Why marketing gets treated differently—and why service leaders should care.
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(04:30) The deadly sin of sending executives binders of metrics.
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(06:00) How to tell stories executives will remember—and fund.
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(09:00) Using customer stories to anchor your data.
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(11:30) Why your relationship with marketing and the CFO matters most.
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(12:45) Teaser: Amas & Bob will be recording LIVE at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, Oct 27–30.
Resources & Links:
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Amas’s blog post: “Contact Centers Are Not Revenue Centers” [link]
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Learn more about the ICMI Contact Center Expo