loader from loading.io

Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough"

Contact Center Show

Release Date: 11/18/2025

Is AI a Threat to CRM? show art Is AI a Threat to CRM?

Contact Center Show

Summary In this episode, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss delve into the current state of Software as a Service (SaaS) and its intersection with artificial intelligence (AI), particularly in the context of contact centers. They discuss the recent downturn in stock prices for major SaaS companies like Salesforce and ServiceNow, attributing this to Wall Street's skepticism about the actual impact of AI on these platforms. Amas expresses concern that the hype surrounding AI is outpacing the reality of its implementation, suggesting that many companies are not yet ready to fully embrace AI-driven...

info_outline
Stop Chasing Vanity Metrics show art Stop Chasing Vanity Metrics

Contact Center Show

Most customer experience goals are meaningless. In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah dismantle the way contact centers set annual CX metrics and explain why leaders keep optimizing numbers that customers neither notice nor value. Using insights from a John Goodman article on CX goal-setting, the conversation exposes the disconnect between executives, customers, and frontline teams—and why automation, deflection, and “respectable” percentage improvements often make service worse, not better. This episode is about shifting from internally convenient metrics to customer-impactful...

info_outline
New Year Predictions — What 2025 Got Wrong, What 2026 Gets Right show art New Year Predictions — What 2025 Got Wrong, What 2026 Gets Right

Contact Center Show

  2025 predictions — graded AI-powered knowledge Bob’s 2025 prediction: AI would dramatically improve knowledge in contact centers. Result: Early but mostly wrong. The technology moved, but the data did not. Knowledge bases were too fragmented, too dirty, and too poorly governed for AI to meaningfully improve frontline work. The industry instead spent another year chasing bots, automation, and surface-level “AI assistants.” Grade: C+ The failure was not AI. It was the state of enterprise knowledge. Remote work reversal Bob’s 2025 prediction: Work-from-home would shrink and...

info_outline
HOLD — The Suffering Economy of Customer Service show art HOLD — The Suffering Economy of Customer Service

Contact Center Show

Amas Tenumah explains why customer service is not “broken” but intentionally designed to fail. Drawing on decades inside contact centers, historical research, and real corporate incentives, he argues that long waits, deflection, and automation-first strategies are features—not bugs. The conversation dismantles common CX myths, challenges executive complacency, and frames consumer behavior as the only force capable of triggering real change. Core Themes The Suffering Economy of Customer Service: When service is universally bad across industries, it’s systemic. Incentives—not...

info_outline
Empowering Sales Teams through AI show art Empowering Sales Teams through AI

Contact Center Show

Summary The conversation explores the integration of AI in sales, focusing on how it enhances customer engagement and improves sales efficiency. Bob Furniss discusses the importance of using data to empower salespeople rather than reducing their numbers, emphasizing a customer-centric approach to AI in sales.     Takeaways AI can enhance customer engagement in sales. The focus should be on empowering salespeople with data. AI is not just about reducing costs but improving efficiency. Sales strategies should prioritize customer needs. Data-driven insights can lead to better sales...

info_outline
Unlocking Value in Contact Centers with Brad Cleveland show art Unlocking Value in Contact Centers with Brad Cleveland

Contact Center Show

Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes. Takeaways there's three levels of value that contact centers create Level one is efficiency customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job it's the strategic insight that AI can provide it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing Here's an opportunity to improve...

info_outline
Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough"

Contact Center Show

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements The Power of Language: Transform "I can't" into "How can we" Shift from "I have to" to "We get to" Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements) Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations The Alignment Problem: CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later" The Pilot Program Strategy: Start small...

info_outline
Live from ICMI Conference - HR as a Contact Center with Bianca show art Live from ICMI Conference - HR as a Contact Center with Bianca

Contact Center Show

Episode Summary Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University.    

info_outline
How Contact Centers Became the Corporate Nervous System (Live from ICMI w Daniel) show art How Contact Centers Became the Corporate Nervous System (Live from ICMI w Daniel)

Contact Center Show

Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos) Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor Guest Background Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background Surveys audiences and writes research reports Has "front row seat" to industry transformation Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey About the State of the Contact Center Report Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals Covers multiple verticals including: Training and skills Compensation and salary Technology use Leadership perceptions Strategy ...

info_outline
Navigating Complexity in Contact Centers (live show w Luke Jamieson) show art Navigating Complexity in Contact Centers (live show w Luke Jamieson)

Contact Center Show

Summary In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers. Takeaways...

info_outline
 
More Episodes

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements

The Power of Language:

  • Transform "I can't" into "How can we"
  • Shift from "I have to" to "We get to"
  • Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements)
  • Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception

Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations

The Alignment Problem:

  • CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments
  • Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team
  • Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later"

The Pilot Program Strategy:

  • Start small before asking for big budgets
  • Show proof of concept with intentional, measurable pilots
  • Use success to rally and align different areas of the company

Real Example - CX Day Success:

  • Introduced first-ever CX Day celebration at 145-year-old engineering company
  • Started small despite skepticism
  • Now an annual tradition that continues after her departure

Rethinking CX Metrics

Beyond Traditional Measurements:

  • NPS and effort scores are starting points, not endpoints
  • "Satisfaction" is no longer good enough (it's the equivalent of "fine")
  • New focus: Emotional altitude across every touchpoint

The Emotional Impact:

  • Brains constantly cycle between thinking and feeling
  • Emotions create lasting imprints that shape brand perception
  • Research shows: 12 positive experiences needed to overcome 1 negative
  • Measure emotional highs to identify gaps and successes

The Four Rs of CX Impact:

  • Revenue
  • Retention
  • Reputation
  • Referrals

The Future of Contact Centers

Human + AI Integration:

  • Smart companies intentionally map where humans add value vs. where AI should handle interactions
  • The answer is "both/and" not "either/or"
  • Critical: Validate designs with real customers, not just internal teams

The Contact Center Superpower:

  • Contact center teams speak to more customers in a week than other departments do in a year
  • This proximity to customers gives agents unique power to be organizational change agents
  • Voice of customer insights should inform product development, marketing messaging, and more

Words Matter in the AI Era:

  • Example: Website offering "24/7 support, our guides are happy to help you"
  • "Guides" for both humans and AI feels impersonal
  • Naming and framing still matters

The Power of Customer Voice

The 10-Minute Video Story: A contact center leader captured customer feedback about a failed new product. At an executive meeting, he played a 10-minute compilation of customer complaints.

  • The CEO's initial advisor said it was a career-ending mistake
  • The CEO walked out during the video
  • Result: CEO returned and said it was "the best 10 minutes anybody's ever played" and named him employee #1
  • Customer voice changed the company's trajectory

The Validation Imperative:

  • Internal perspective isn't enough
  • Customer validation must be iterative, not one-time
  • Can't use internal team as proxy for outside voice
  • Both internal knowledge AND customer validation matter

The Fundamental C-Suite Challenge

When C-suite leaders aren't aligned in their meetings, misalignment trickles down through the entire organization. This is the root problem preventing effective CX implementation.

Notable Stories

The Morgan & Morgan Tattoo Story: Leadership promised to get company logo tattoos if the team hit an unprecedented conversion rate goal. When they achieved it, 40 leaders got matching tattoos - four tattoo artists came in for the day. The question became: "Is your brand tattoo-worthy?"

Stacey's Podcast Origin: Bought her first microphone for under $50, then waited six months before taking it out of the box due to fear. That mic ignited her journey to intentionally sharing her voice through podcasting.

Living Podcasting: At the conference, Stacey pulled out her mic to record a 10-minute session where Amas (who has Parkinson's) gave direct advice to her relative with a similar condition - creating immediate, personal value rather than secondhand communication.

Takeaways for Contact Center Leaders

  1. Language shapes reality - Small word changes create emotional shifts in customer experience
  2. Demand metric alignment - CX can't succeed unless executives share the same measurements
  3. Start with pilots - Prove value small-scale before requesting major investment
  4. Leverage your proximity to customers - Use it to become the organizational glue and change agent
  5. Validate everything with real customers - Internal assumptions aren't enough
  6. Map the human-AI journey intentionally - Design where each adds value, then test with customers
  7. Bring customer voice to leadership - Sometimes the most powerful thing is making them listen directly
  8. Average isn't acceptable - Move beyond satisfaction to creating emotional highs