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Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough"

Contact Center Show

Release Date: 11/18/2025

Unlocking Value in Contact Centers with Brad Cleveland show art Unlocking Value in Contact Centers with Brad Cleveland

Contact Center Show

Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes. Takeaways there's three levels of value that contact centers create Level one is efficiency customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job it's the strategic insight that AI can provide it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing Here's an opportunity to improve...

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Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough Stacy Sherman: Why 'Satisfied' Is the New 'Fine' And 12 Reasons That's Not Good Enough"

Contact Center Show

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements The Power of Language: Transform "I can't" into "How can we" Shift from "I have to" to "We get to" Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements) Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations The Alignment Problem: CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later" The Pilot Program Strategy: Start small...

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Live from ICMI Conference - HR as a Contact Center with Bianca show art Live from ICMI Conference - HR as a Contact Center with Bianca

Contact Center Show

Episode Summary Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University. Key Topics & Timestamps 00:00 - Opening & Conference Impressions Podcast introduction (running since 2020, available on all platforms) Day 2 reflections from ICMI conference The shift in AI messaging: less prominent on vendor backdrops than previous year 03:00 - The...

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Contact Center Show

Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos) Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor Guest Background Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background Surveys audiences and writes research reports Has "front row seat" to industry transformation Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey About the State of the Contact Center Report Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals Covers multiple verticals including: Training and skills Compensation and salary Technology use Leadership perceptions Strategy ...

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Navigating Complexity in Contact Centers (live show w Luke Jamieson) show art Navigating Complexity in Contact Centers (live show w Luke Jamieson)

Contact Center Show

Summary In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers. Takeaways...

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Is Salesforce and CRM in trouble? show art Is Salesforce and CRM in trouble?

Contact Center Show

  Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolution of contact centers, the impact of CRM systems like Salesforce, and the role of AI in enhancing agent performance. They reflect on the historical context of CRM, the challenges faced by agents, and the future of customer service technology, particularly focusing on the Agent Force initiative. The discussion also touches on the sentiment within the Salesforce community and the potential for new competitors in the market.   Takeaways Salesforce has become a dominant player in the CRM space. The evolution...

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The Impact of Marketing on contact center show art The Impact of Marketing on contact center

Contact Center Show

Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricate relationship between marketing and call center operations, particularly during high-demand periods like holidays. They share personal anecdotes about challenges faced in fulfilling customer orders due to marketing miscommunications and emphasize the importance of building strong relationships between marketing and contact center teams. The discussion highlights the need for effective communication, data sharing, and collaboration to enhance customer experience and operational efficiency.   Takeaways The...

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Are Contact Centers Really Profit Centers? show art Are Contact Centers Really Profit Centers?

Contact Center Show

Summary: For decades, leaders have debated whether the contact center should be a cost center, a profit center, or something in between. In this episode, Amas and Bob cut through the noise and tackle the question head-on: Is the contact center truly a profit center—or are we just telling the story wrong? Amas argues that the CFO decides the labels, not us, and that contact centers suffer from being terrible storytellers compared to marketing. Bob reinforces that stories, not spreadsheets, are what move executives to invest in customer experience. Together, they break down how leaders can...

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Stuck Between AI and Customers show art Stuck Between AI and Customers

Contact Center Show

We’re back from summer break (okay, maybe fall break too) and diving straight into the mess where AI, customers, and reality collide. In this episode, Amas and Bob unpack the hype vs. the truth about AI in contact centers: Is AI replacing humans—or just making customers angrier? Why human agents are still the heart of service, even as bots sound more “human.” How contact center leaders feel stuck—between CEOs chanting “AI, AI, AI” and customers who just want their problems solved. What the data really says about automation, agent workloads, and customer expectations. ...

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BPO Success vs Failure show art BPO Success vs Failure

Contact Center Show

Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intersection of sports fandom and the business of contact centers, particularly focusing on business process outsourcing (BPO). They explore the reasons companies choose to outsource their customer service operations, the challenges involved, and the evolving landscape of the BPO industry. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding core competencies, cost savings, and the need for competent consultants in the BPO space.     Takeaways The NBA Finals can evoke strong emotions and rivalries. BPOs are...

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More Episodes

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements

The Power of Language:

  • Transform "I can't" into "How can we"
  • Shift from "I have to" to "We get to"
  • Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements)
  • Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception

Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations

The Alignment Problem:

  • CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments
  • Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team
  • Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later"

The Pilot Program Strategy:

  • Start small before asking for big budgets
  • Show proof of concept with intentional, measurable pilots
  • Use success to rally and align different areas of the company

Real Example - CX Day Success:

  • Introduced first-ever CX Day celebration at 145-year-old engineering company
  • Started small despite skepticism
  • Now an annual tradition that continues after her departure

Rethinking CX Metrics

Beyond Traditional Measurements:

  • NPS and effort scores are starting points, not endpoints
  • "Satisfaction" is no longer good enough (it's the equivalent of "fine")
  • New focus: Emotional altitude across every touchpoint

The Emotional Impact:

  • Brains constantly cycle between thinking and feeling
  • Emotions create lasting imprints that shape brand perception
  • Research shows: 12 positive experiences needed to overcome 1 negative
  • Measure emotional highs to identify gaps and successes

The Four Rs of CX Impact:

  • Revenue
  • Retention
  • Reputation
  • Referrals

The Future of Contact Centers

Human + AI Integration:

  • Smart companies intentionally map where humans add value vs. where AI should handle interactions
  • The answer is "both/and" not "either/or"
  • Critical: Validate designs with real customers, not just internal teams

The Contact Center Superpower:

  • Contact center teams speak to more customers in a week than other departments do in a year
  • This proximity to customers gives agents unique power to be organizational change agents
  • Voice of customer insights should inform product development, marketing messaging, and more

Words Matter in the AI Era:

  • Example: Website offering "24/7 support, our guides are happy to help you"
  • "Guides" for both humans and AI feels impersonal
  • Naming and framing still matters

The Power of Customer Voice

The 10-Minute Video Story: A contact center leader captured customer feedback about a failed new product. At an executive meeting, he played a 10-minute compilation of customer complaints.

  • The CEO's initial advisor said it was a career-ending mistake
  • The CEO walked out during the video
  • Result: CEO returned and said it was "the best 10 minutes anybody's ever played" and named him employee #1
  • Customer voice changed the company's trajectory

The Validation Imperative:

  • Internal perspective isn't enough
  • Customer validation must be iterative, not one-time
  • Can't use internal team as proxy for outside voice
  • Both internal knowledge AND customer validation matter

The Fundamental C-Suite Challenge

When C-suite leaders aren't aligned in their meetings, misalignment trickles down through the entire organization. This is the root problem preventing effective CX implementation.

Notable Stories

The Morgan & Morgan Tattoo Story: Leadership promised to get company logo tattoos if the team hit an unprecedented conversion rate goal. When they achieved it, 40 leaders got matching tattoos - four tattoo artists came in for the day. The question became: "Is your brand tattoo-worthy?"

Stacey's Podcast Origin: Bought her first microphone for under $50, then waited six months before taking it out of the box due to fear. That mic ignited her journey to intentionally sharing her voice through podcasting.

Living Podcasting: At the conference, Stacey pulled out her mic to record a 10-minute session where Amas (who has Parkinson's) gave direct advice to her relative with a similar condition - creating immediate, personal value rather than secondhand communication.

Takeaways for Contact Center Leaders

  1. Language shapes reality - Small word changes create emotional shifts in customer experience
  2. Demand metric alignment - CX can't succeed unless executives share the same measurements
  3. Start with pilots - Prove value small-scale before requesting major investment
  4. Leverage your proximity to customers - Use it to become the organizational glue and change agent
  5. Validate everything with real customers - Internal assumptions aren't enough
  6. Map the human-AI journey intentionally - Design where each adds value, then test with customers
  7. Bring customer voice to leadership - Sometimes the most powerful thing is making them listen directly
  8. Average isn't acceptable - Move beyond satisfaction to creating emotional highs