193. Ten Commandments in Classrooms — Mark David Hall & Andrea Picciotti-Bayer
Release Date: 07/02/2025
207. A Sermon on the Law — Jeff Baker
Cross & Gavel Podcast
One of the things that we at Christian Legal Society constantly implore law students to do is to think about what sort of lawyer they want to be. Yes, we want them to be successful, but more than that, we want them to bear witness to the grace of God and to manifest His character across the legal profession. My conversation today provides a much needed resource for those looking to develop their reputation as Christian lawyers and for those hoping to make a positive difference in the lives of those they encounter. My guest is Jeff Baker, the first Associate Dean of Experiential Learning and...
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206. Kushinda Court — Judge Gerald Parker
Cross & Gavel Podcast
Our first episode of the year takes us to Dayton, Ohio, where under the auspices of the Montgomery County Common Pleas Court sits the (“the Court”) under the vision and direction of the Honorable Gerald Parker. This Court is part of the wider strategy to create specialized dockets that allow for a therapeutic approach to law. My guest is Judge Parker, who talks to me about his journey to the Court, his vision for the Court, and how his faith plays a role in the ministry he performs. Judge Parker was elected to the Common Pleas Court Bench, General Division, in November of 2018, taking...
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205. Beauty & the Law — Mark Fowler
Cross & Gavel Podcast
One of the chief affections we as humans should pursue along with truth and virtue is the appreciation for beauty. As lawyers, we are uniquely predisposed to ignoring this element of human life for want of loveliness in our work and in the people we come across. My discussion today is an attempt to rethink the Christian attorney's relationship with beauty. My guest has written a seminal work () on the importance of beauty in the law, providing an essential primer for inquiring minds committed to the common good. Mark Fowler is a practicing lawyer whose specialist areas of advice include the...
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204. Christian Natural Law & Religious Freedom — Alex Deagon
Cross & Gavel Podcast
The question of natural law continues to come up in the context of Christian jurisprudence, and for good reason. It is a topic both fascinating and formative, touching on topics as vast as the origins of the , , and . And so with the new book from Alex Deagon () on the interaction of Christian natural law and religious freedom, I get an opportunity to learn something new on this mysterious topic. Alex and I talk about his intellectual journey, the shaping of his thesis, the meaning and application of natural law, the importance of religious freedom, and more. Alex is an Associate Professor in...
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203. Sin Nombre — Ted Oswald & Anna Colby
Cross & Gavel Podcast
All year, we’ve witnessed in America a law enforcement presence dedicated to a single mission: mass deportation. While initially this mission was centered on the eradication of dangerous criminals, those now detained with has outpaced those with convictions or pending criminal charges. The stories have been saddening and legally complex, leaving Christians with a tension between the mandates of "loving the foreigner in our midst" and the respect we owe to the ruling authorities appointed by God. A tension that cannot be broken by partisanship or by reducing this multifaceted issue...
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202. How Do You Solve a Problem Like Martinez? — Benjamin A. Fleshman
Cross & Gavel Podcast
In 2010, the Supreme Court issued a consequential opinion that stifled the freedom of association across countless campuses when it came to religious groups. In CLS v. Martinez, in a divided 5-4 , the Court opened the way for universities to limit group association by refusing to grant them power to elect those leaders best suited to carry on that group’s mission and purpose. In a forthcoming article () in the Texas Review of Law and Politics, my guest today, Benjamin Fleshman, covers the infamous Martinez decision and the problem it created for student organizations across the country....
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201. Cosmic Politics — Jim DeMint
Cross & Gavel Podcast
One of the cliches of culture is that we are polarized. Perhaps because it has become so commonplace to speak of our divisions, our divisions have become normalized. In my conversation today, I speak with someone who is very much at the heart of the American political order and has a unique vantage point for elucidating the cosmic significance of our clashes. is an American businessman, author, and retired politician who served as a United States Senator from South Carolina and as president of The Heritage Foundation. A leading figure in the Tea Party movement, Jim is a member of the...
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200. The Prodigal Host Returns — Mike Schutt
Cross & Gavel Podcast
Today marks the 200th episode of the Cross & Gavel. As part of that celebration, I have brought back the original host to have an unscripted and (mostly) unedited conversation about all things ministry, movies, books, and more. Mike Schutt is now the Executive Director of , the director of the CLS Law School Fellows Program, and the author of the seminal work for Christian law students, . Mike is also an affiliate professor at Trinity Law School and a decent human being (I don’t care what Myron says). Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced...
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199. Unshaken Allegiance — Patrick Parkinson
Cross & Gavel Podcast
My guest today comes from outside the United States and has been studying the religious freedom landscape in Australia for quite some time. In his new book——he chronicles many of these challenges, offering a constructively approach to matters of difference and the various ways to express our Christian identity in the heat of public contest. (AM, MA, LLM, LLD) is an Emeritus Professor of Law and former Dean of Law at the University of Queensland. He has been involved in advocacy for religious freedom in Australia for many years, in particular as board member and sometime Chair of Freedom...
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198. How Religious Actors Help Shape the AI Dialogue — Whittney Barth
Cross & Gavel Podcast
My guest this week is Whittney Barth, an associate teaching professor at Emory Law School and the Executive Director and Charlotte McDaniel Scholar at the Center for the Study of Law and Religion. Our conversation centers around her new piece arguing that religious actors act as friction creators in the discussion and development of AI tools, ethics, and regulation. Full paper: Full bio: Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
info_outlineOn June 20, 2025, the Fifth Circuit returned its decision in the Louisiana Ten Commandments case (here), upholding the District Courts order blocking the law from going into effect. This was followed by a petition on June 26 for a rehearing en banc by the State (here). At the same time, Texas passed its on bill (here) requiring displays of the Ten Commandments in classrooms. On June 24, that law was challenged in the Northern District of Texas (here) by a group of parents seeking to stop the bill from going into effect. Needless to say, our topic today is very timely, discussing the history of public displays of the Ten Commandments in public schools.
My guests are Mark David Hall and Andrea Picciotti-Bayer, who wrote an article on the topic pending publication in the William and Mary Bill of Rights Journal entitled Ten Commandments in the Public Square and Public Schools (draft here).
Mark David Hall (bio) joined the faculty of the Robertson School of Government at Regent University in 2023. He is one of the most outstanding scholars of early America, whose many distinguished publications have argued persuasively for the crucial importance of Christianity in the flourishing of America’s experiment in ordered liberty.
Andrea Picciotti-Bayer (bio) is Director of the Conscience Project. A Stanford-educated lawyer, she has dedicated her legal career to civil rights and appellate advocacy. She got her start as a trial and appellate attorney in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. Prior to leading the Conscience Project, she served as the legal advisor for the Catholic Association, filing amicus briefs with federal courts of appeal and the U.S. Supreme Court in key religious freedom and free speech cases.
Resources noted by the guests: RFI, John Witte's book, and The Sacred Rights of Conscience (Liberty Fund) book.
Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.