Cross & Gavel Podcast
A production of Christian Legal Society — focusing on the interaction between law, religion, and public policy, with an emphasis on building-up Christian students and attorneys to intelligently engage in public life and better love their neighbors. Hosted by Anton Sorkin (Director of Law Student Ministries)
info_outline
207. A Sermon on the Law — Jeff Baker
01/28/2026
207. A Sermon on the Law — Jeff Baker
One of the things that we at Christian Legal Society constantly implore law students to do is to think about what sort of lawyer they want to be. Yes, we want them to be successful, but more than that, we want them to bear witness to the grace of God and to manifest His character across the legal profession. My conversation today provides a much needed resource for those looking to develop their reputation as Christian lawyers and for those hoping to make a positive difference in the lives of those they encounter. My guest is Jeff Baker, the first Associate Dean of Experiential Learning and Clinical Professor of Law at the University of Alabama School of Law. His scholarship focuses on issues of human rights and dignity, social justice, legal education, and ethics, at the intersections of law, theology, jurisprudence, and public policy. His paper, , is a clarion call for ethical lawyering on behalf of the marginalized and oppressed. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/39906615
info_outline
206. Kushinda Court — Judge Gerald Parker
01/14/2026
206. Kushinda Court — Judge Gerald Parker
Our first episode of the year takes us to Dayton, Ohio, where under the auspices of the Montgomery County Common Pleas Court sits the (“the Court”) under the vision and direction of the Honorable Gerald Parker. This Court is part of the wider strategy to create specialized dockets that allow for a therapeutic approach to law. My guest is Judge Parker, who talks to me about his journey to the Court, his vision for the Court, and how his faith plays a role in the ministry he performs. Judge Parker was elected to the Common Pleas Court Bench, General Division, in November of 2018, taking office in early January of 2019. He serves on the Offender Supervision and Security Committee. Judge Parker received his B.A. from Georgetown College (KY) in 2004 and his J.D. from Salmon P. Chase College of Law at Northern Kentucky University in 2007. From 2007 to 2011, he was an Assistant Montgomery County Prosecuting Attorney spending a majority of his time on felony dockets. In 2012, Judge Parker joined the civil litigation team with the Dayton firm of Dyer, Garofalo Mann and Schultz. He would then be appointed as juvenile magistrate for Montgomery County Juvenile Court in 2016. I have written more on the Kushinda Court . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/39721180
info_outline
205. Beauty & the Law — Mark Fowler
12/31/2025
205. Beauty & the Law — Mark Fowler
One of the chief affections we as humans should pursue along with truth and virtue is the appreciation for beauty. As lawyers, we are uniquely predisposed to ignoring this element of human life for want of loveliness in our work and in the people we come across. My discussion today is an attempt to rethink the Christian attorney's relationship with beauty. My guest has written a seminal work () on the importance of beauty in the law, providing an essential primer for inquiring minds committed to the common good. Mark Fowler is a practicing lawyer whose specialist areas of advice include the law applying to not-for-profit organisations, income tax exempt institutions, charities and deductible gift recipients. He has advised a wide range of schools and other educational institutions, international aid organizations, charitable housing associations, benevolent institutions, disability service providers, peak bodies, arts and cultural organizations and religious organizations. . Happy New Years! Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/39580070
info_outline
204. Christian Natural Law & Religious Freedom — Alex Deagon
12/08/2025
204. Christian Natural Law & Religious Freedom — Alex Deagon
The question of natural law continues to come up in the context of Christian jurisprudence, and for good reason. It is a topic both fascinating and formative, touching on topics as vast as the origins of the , , and . And so with the new book from Alex Deagon () on the interaction of Christian natural law and religious freedom, I get an opportunity to learn something new on this mysterious topic. Alex and I talk about his intellectual journey, the shaping of his thesis, the meaning and application of natural law, the importance of religious freedom, and more. Alex is an Associate Professor in the School of Law, Queensland University of Technology. He is an international expert in religious freedom and the author of From Violence to Peace (2017) and Reconciling Freedom and Discrimination (2023). . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/39310100
info_outline
203. Sin Nombre — Ted Oswald & Anna Colby
11/26/2025
203. Sin Nombre — Ted Oswald & Anna Colby
All year, we’ve witnessed in America a law enforcement presence dedicated to a single mission: mass deportation. While initially this mission was centered on the eradication of dangerous criminals, those now detained with has outpaced those with convictions or pending criminal charges. The stories have been saddening and legally complex, leaving Christians with a tension between the mandates of "loving the foreigner in our midst" and the respect we owe to the ruling authorities appointed by God. A tension that cannot be broken by partisanship or by reducing this multifaceted issue to a binary designation of legal vs. illegal. In today’s episode, I talk to two World Relief staff members working in this area about the state of things in our country in an effort to continue my own education and to show just how complicated this all is. Ted Oswald and Anna Colby are both attorneys with World Relief’s helping immigrants and refugees in the area. (You can find some of Anna’s writing .) Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/39177170
info_outline
202. How Do You Solve a Problem Like Martinez? — Benjamin A. Fleshman
11/19/2025
202. How Do You Solve a Problem Like Martinez? — Benjamin A. Fleshman
In 2010, the Supreme Court issued a consequential opinion that stifled the freedom of association across countless campuses when it came to religious groups. In CLS v. Martinez, in a divided 5-4 , the Court opened the way for universities to limit group association by refusing to grant them power to elect those leaders best suited to carry on that group’s mission and purpose. In a forthcoming article () in the Texas Review of Law and Politics, my guest today, Benjamin Fleshman, covers the infamous Martinez decision and the problem it created for student organizations across the country. Given the closeness of this topic to my own work, we discuss in some detail the infamous “all comers” policy (see and ) still upheld in some law schools, e.g., UC-Berkeley (see ), nature of student organizations, the importance of recent Supreme Court decisions (see recent in the Ninth Circuit and then the other mentioned in Washington, D.C.), the recent attempts to strengthen group access (see ), and more. Benjamin joined The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty as Counsel in 2023. His work there focuses on appellate litigation in both state and federal courts. Prior to joining Becket, Ben worked as an associate at Shearman & Sterling in Washington, D.C., where he practiced antitrust law and complex commercial litigation. Before entering private practice, he served as a law clerk to Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod of the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/39090975
info_outline
201. Cosmic Politics — Jim DeMint
11/05/2025
201. Cosmic Politics — Jim DeMint
One of the cliches of culture is that we are polarized. Perhaps because it has become so commonplace to speak of our divisions, our divisions have become normalized. In my conversation today, I speak with someone who is very much at the heart of the American political order and has a unique vantage point for elucidating the cosmic significance of our clashes. is an American businessman, author, and retired politician who served as a United States Senator from South Carolina and as president of The Heritage Foundation. A leading figure in the Tea Party movement, Jim is a member of the Republican Party and is the founder of the Senate Conservatives Fund. His most recent accomplishment was serving as the founding chairman of the Conservative Partnership Institute. Jim and I talk about his new book entitled . I ask him about his faith inside the many offices he held, the church and whether he trusts the pastors to deliver the “right” message, his reading of Ephesians 6 and the cosmic war at play, and much more.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38929590
info_outline
200. The Prodigal Host Returns — Mike Schutt
10/29/2025
200. The Prodigal Host Returns — Mike Schutt
Today marks the 200th episode of the Cross & Gavel. As part of that celebration, I have brought back the original host to have an unscripted and (mostly) unedited conversation about all things ministry, movies, books, and more. Mike Schutt is now the Executive Director of , the director of the CLS Law School Fellows Program, and the author of the seminal work for Christian law students, . Mike is also an affiliate professor at Trinity Law School and a decent human being (I don’t care what Myron says). Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38819370
info_outline
199. Unshaken Allegiance — Patrick Parkinson
10/22/2025
199. Unshaken Allegiance — Patrick Parkinson
My guest today comes from outside the United States and has been studying the religious freedom landscape in Australia for quite some time. In his new book——he chronicles many of these challenges, offering a constructively approach to matters of difference and the various ways to express our Christian identity in the heat of public contest. (AM, MA, LLM, LLD) is an Emeritus Professor of Law and former Dean of Law at the University of Queensland. He has been involved in advocacy for religious freedom in Australia for many years, in particular as board member and sometime Chair of Freedom for Faith. He is an expert on family law and child protection and has held various positions chairing governmental advisory bodies in Australia in these areas, leading to significant law reform. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38737475
info_outline
198. How Religious Actors Help Shape the AI Dialogue — Whittney Barth
10/08/2025
198. How Religious Actors Help Shape the AI Dialogue — Whittney Barth
My guest this week is Whittney Barth, an associate teaching professor at Emory Law School and the Executive Director and Charlotte McDaniel Scholar at the Center for the Study of Law and Religion. Our conversation centers around her new piece arguing that religious actors act as friction creators in the discussion and development of AI tools, ethics, and regulation. Full paper: Full bio: Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38507950
info_outline
SPECIAL EPISODE: The Wages of Cinema — Crystal L. Downing
09/25/2025
SPECIAL EPISODE: The Wages of Cinema — Crystal L. Downing
In this special film festival edition, I talk with Crystal L. Downing about the medium of film and how to approach the viewing experience. At the heart of our discussion is her new book, . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38349180
info_outline
197. Kierkegaardian Ethics & the Rule of Law — Joshua Neoh
09/17/2025
197. Kierkegaardian Ethics & the Rule of Law — Joshua Neoh
One of the major challenges in religious freedom law is figuring out to what extent a claim of accommodation is justified given the low barrier of entry for claims of sincerity. While American law tries to prevent a man from becoming what Justice Scalia in Smith called “,” something of the sort is happening when a person claims that his faith prevents him from following the normal course of obedience. My conversation today helps illuminate some of this in a profound way, specifically looking at Soren Kierkegaard’s ethical system and considering its corollary in the rule of law. My guest is Joshua Neoh, a senior lecturer in law at the Australian National University (ANU), Australia. He has an LLB, LLM and PhD from the ANU, Yale and Cambridge, respectively. His paper at the heart of this conversation is called Kierkegaardian Ethics and the Rule of Law, available . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38248300
info_outline
196. Pursuing Justice in a Violent Land (Part II) — Kurt Ver Beek & Emily Cole
09/03/2025
196. Pursuing Justice in a Violent Land (Part II) — Kurt Ver Beek & Emily Cole
In , Ross Halperin and I laid a foundation for the work of ASJ in Honduras under the leadership of Kurt Ver Beek and others. In this episode, I am joined by Kurt himself to discuss his exchange of letters between Nicholas Wolterstorff in a wonderful book, , which looks at the meaning of justice and the work ASJ. Kurt is joined by Emily Cole, who has focused on Latin America most of her career and remains a passionate advocate for the well-being and development of that region. I speak to them about a number of things, focusing on the structural details of working in the area, including the difference between social justice and community development, the importance of long-term missionary work, the significance of elections, working with the government, and more. Kurt and his wife, Jo Ann Van Engen, are currently the directors of , which studies the concept of justice in relation to history, economics, politics, sociology, and development in Honduras. Both are founding members of the (ASJ) in Honduras. ASJ seeks to do justice in Honduras and inspire others around the world to seek justice in their own contexts. Emily Cole is a lawyer and an advocate, writing about poetry, human rights, and community development, with a focus on Latin America. For more on her work on covenantal pluralism, go . She also recently wrote for the Journal of Christian Legal Thought considering the role of the poetic imagination in Latin America. Read it . Both are Fulbright recipients, with a focus on work in Honduras and Ecuador, respectively. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/38066365
info_outline
195. Pursuing Justice in a Violent Land (Part I) — Ross Halperin
08/21/2025
195. Pursuing Justice in a Violent Land (Part I) — Ross Halperin
Today, we start a two-part journey into the heart of Honduran society. Our focus will be on one man, Kurt Ver Beek, and the organization he co-founded, . Kurt is a professor of Sociology (Emeritus) at Calvin University and lead investigator for an agreement between Transparency International, the Honduran Government, and ASJ. For this first episode, we are joined by the reporter Ross Halperin, whose recent biography () of Kurt’s ministry (New York Times profile ) paints a fascinating picture of a man dedicated to the cause of justice. While Ross and I do not discuss the entire scope of the book, we do focus on the criminal justice system and the many barriers erected for victims seeking relief. Ross and I talk about how he came to write the book, the work of ASJ in helping reduce the violence in Honduras, some of the main characters in the story, and much more. Ross attended Harvard University and worked under Mark A. R. Kleiman, one of the world’s leading criminal-justice scholars. He started reporting this story in 2018 and has since spent much of his time in Honduras. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/37900030
info_outline
194. Building an AI-Savvy Workforce — Kevin Frazier
07/16/2025
194. Building an AI-Savvy Workforce — Kevin Frazier
My conversation today is on the necessity of adaptive leadership in the coming wave that is artificial intelligence. My guest is Kevin Frazier, the newly minted AI Innovation and Law Fellow at The University of Texas School of Law. His article () in Law & Liberty is called Building an AI-Savvy Workforce. His new podcast, Scaling Law (), is excellent. Find his other work at Lawfare (). Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/37417205
info_outline
193. Ten Commandments in Classrooms — Mark David Hall & Andrea Picciotti-Bayer
07/02/2025
193. Ten Commandments in Classrooms — Mark David Hall & Andrea Picciotti-Bayer
On June 20, 2025, the Fifth Circuit returned its decision in the Louisiana Ten Commandments case (), upholding the District Courts order blocking the law from going into effect. This was followed by a petition on June 26 for a rehearing en banc by the State (). At the same time, Texas passed its on bill () requiring displays of the Ten Commandments in classrooms. On June 24, that law was challenged in the Northern District of Texas () by a group of parents seeking to stop the bill from going into effect. Needless to say, our topic today is very timely, discussing the history of public displays of the Ten Commandments in public schools. My guests are Mark David Hall and Andrea Picciotti-Bayer, who wrote an article on the topic pending publication in the William and Mary Bill of Rights Journal entitled Ten Commandments in the Public Square and Public Schools (). Mark David Hall () joined the faculty of the Robertson School of Government at Regent University in 2023. He is one of the most outstanding scholars of early America, whose many distinguished publications have argued persuasively for the crucial importance of Christianity in the flourishing of America’s experiment in ordered liberty. Andrea Picciotti-Bayer () is Director of the Conscience Project. A Stanford-educated lawyer, she has dedicated her legal career to civil rights and appellate advocacy. She got her start as a trial and appellate attorney in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. Prior to leading the Conscience Project, she served as the legal advisor for the Catholic Association, filing amicus briefs with federal courts of appeal and the U.S. Supreme Court in key religious freedom and free speech cases. Resources noted by the guests: , John Witte's , and The Sacred Rights of Conscience () book. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/37251860
info_outline
192. The Death & New Life of Law and Religion — Marc O. DeGirolami
06/18/2025
192. The Death & New Life of Law and Religion — Marc O. DeGirolami
This week, we have a special episode. One near and dear to my heart and my own intellectual history. It is a conversation with professor Marc O. DeGirolami on his piece published in the Oxford Journal of Law & Religion covering the life and death of law and religion. Read it . In it, he takes us into the first wave of this movement and its advent forces with those like Harold Berman and John Witte, Jr., who took on the critical mantle of reacting to “the deconstruction of the American Christian legal heritage proceeding apace in the courts and the academy.” DeGirolami discusses the priorities that animated the early scholars of this movement and its eventual decline due not only to various forms of categorical capitulations and concept desuetude, but also the ravages of retirements and the changing landscape of legal discourse. We talk about all this and more! Marc is the inaugural St. John Henry Newman Professor of Law and Co-Director of the Center for Law and the Human Person. . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/37060010
info_outline
SPECIAL EPISODE: Integrating Faith in Legal Practice — Boatman Ricci (Foundations Series)
06/11/2025
SPECIAL EPISODE: Integrating Faith in Legal Practice — Boatman Ricci (Foundations Series)
The Foundations Series is a new web content venture from CLS aimed at helping Christian law students transition from 3Ls to first-year associates. It features Christian practitioners skilled in the integration of faith and practice, offering guidance in conversation with students at the early stages of their legal development. My guests today are James A. Boatman & Stephen Schahrer, collectively from the Florida law firm Boatman Ricci. James is a commercial litigator with extensive experience in both federal and state courts. He has handled a broad spectrum of matters including: contract enforcement; foreclosure prosecution/defense; internet wire fraud prosecution; special asset recovery; construction defect litigation; common law tort cases (fraud, defamation, etc.) and many others. Stephen handles legal matters for clients from “all walks of life” in the area of business and commercial litigation including business litigation, construction defect and lien litigation, real estate litigation, general contract litigation, and trust and estate litigation. Stephen also serves as outside General Counsel to several local businesses and nonprofits. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Chris Zabriskie.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/36945205
info_outline
191. Religious Law Schools, Rankings, & Bias — Michael Conklin
05/28/2025
191. Religious Law Schools, Rankings, & Bias — Michael Conklin
With the release of U.S. News Rankings , renewed interest has surfaced regarding the parameters and impact of placement. Where law schools fall speaks to not only the quality of their percieved education, but also success regarding student employment and faculty publication. On this episode, I speak with Michael Conklin, a scholar who’s been measuring bias within the Rankings system, this time focusing his attention on religious law schools. His paper, soon to be published in the Florida Journal of Law & Public Policy, is entitled . Dr. Michael Conklin is the Visiting Assistant Professor of Business Law at Texas A&M University Central Texas and a lecturer at Texas A&M University School of Law. and . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/36742305
info_outline
SPECIAL EPISODE: Relational Wisdom for Lawyers — Ken Sande (Wellness Program)
05/14/2025
SPECIAL EPISODE: Relational Wisdom for Lawyers — Ken Sande (Wellness Program)
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote, "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how this environment tends to contribute to high rates of mental health disorders and substance abuse. In an effort to face this challenge, LSM has launched the Wellness Program—focused on providing students resources and discussions to face this issue, together. In this special episode, Michelle Williams talks to Ken Sande about relational wisdom, emotional intelligence, and developing healthy habits in navigating the challenges of legal pratice. Helpful resources for continuing education: Relational Wisdom 360 [] A Stolen Baby, $200M Lawsuit and an Astonishing Reconciliation [] Attorneys as Peacemakers and Conciliators [] Reconciled by a Baby Moose [] Lincoln's Relational Wisdom [] Emotional Intelligence for (Secular) Attorneys [] For more with Ken Sande, listen to our other conversatioin . Link to SUBSTACK . Music Credit: Tokyo Music Walker
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/36568185
info_outline
190. Play In The Joints — Falco Anthony Muscante II
05/08/2025
190. Play In The Joints — Falco Anthony Muscante II
For most of the second half of 20th century, the Supreme Court has wrestled with finding a balance between the Free Exercise of religion and the Establishment Clause, offering several tests to test the limits of permissible accommodation without the undue appearance of government endorsement. Among those tests has been a little-thing called the “play in the joints,” famously introduced in Walz v. Tax Commissioner of New York (1970). In this episode, I explore this concept with Falco Anthony Muscante II, whose paper in the Ave Marie Law Review is called . In our conversation, we discuss the history of the religious clause and what the framers intended, how the concept emerged and became weaponized in , why the Court has latched on to the idea of state neutrality and how that impacts religion, and more. Falco Anthony Muscante II earned his J.D. in 2023 from the Duquesne University School of Law, where he served on the executive boards for the Law Review and Appellate Moot Court Board. He is an alumnus of Grove City College, where he graduated summa cum laude with a B.S. Management, minor in Pre-Law, and concentration in Human Resources. Falco is a litigation associate at a big law firm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, soon headed to clerk for the Third Circuit. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/36490925
info_outline
SPECIAL EPISODE: Integrating Faith in Legal Practice — Joe Ruta & Stephen Lyon (Foundations Series)
04/24/2025
SPECIAL EPISODE: Integrating Faith in Legal Practice — Joe Ruta & Stephen Lyon (Foundations Series)
The Foundations Series is a new web content venture from CLS aimed at helping Christian law students transition from 3Ls to first-year associates. It features Christian practitioners skilled in the integration of faith and practice, offering guidance in conversation with students at the early stages of their legal development. My guests today are Joe Ruta and Stephen Lyon. Joe is a Partner of Ruta, Soulios, & Stratis LLP. He is outside general counsel to over 30 corporations ranging from startups to public companies as well as not-for-profits. . Stephen is a deputy assistant public defender working in Connecticut. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Chris Zabriskie.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/36296595
info_outline
189. Natural Law and Its Discontents — Josiah Wolfe
04/16/2025
189. Natural Law and Its Discontents — Josiah Wolfe
The recent publication of Melissa Moschella’s has renewed interest in the application of natural law to human flourishing. A topic that has undergone a resurgence among not only Catholics, but also Protestants with seminal publications from those like , , and . Seeing students engaging in this tradition has been rewarding and today I speak to one of those students, Josiah Wolfe, and his article in the Campbell Law Observer entitled, . We talk about the early stages of his interest in the topic, whether he’s seeing the natural law in his assignment, how he approaches , the relationship between legislation and divine ordinance, and much more. Josiah is a second-year law student at Campbell University School of Law and is a Staff Writer for the Campbell Law Observer. He grew up in North Carolina and graduated summa cum laude from Charter Oak College with a B.S. in Business Administration. He was also a CLS Fellow in 2024. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/36180720
info_outline
188. Called to Freedom — Brad Littlejohn
04/02/2025
188. Called to Freedom — Brad Littlejohn
A popular refrain from both the left and the right in American society is one concerning the importance of liberty for the flourishment of their respective communities. But what does true freedom look like and, perhaps more importantly, how does one come to attain it and then keep it in a world like our own. This week, I am joined by Brad Littlejohn to talk about his new book, . In our conversation, we discuss the journey of writing this book, the nature and meaning of liberty in all of its areas, role of obligation and virtue, the influence of modern technology on freedom, and more. Brad is the Director of Programs and Education at and president emeritus at . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/35969820
info_outline
SPECIAL EPISODE: What Hath Christ To Do With Rights? — Kristina Arriaga (Witte Lectures)
03/19/2025
SPECIAL EPISODE: What Hath Christ To Do With Rights? — Kristina Arriaga (Witte Lectures)
The John Witte, Jr. Lecture Series on Christianity & Law is back! A new venture from Christian Legal Society aimed at advancing the conversation surrounding the integration of Christianity & law. In our second lecture inspired by the American 19th century painters, we go international and ask what contributions Christianity made to advancing human rights. Our keynote is Kristina Arriaga, who digs deep into her Cuban heritage to bring us a fascinating lecture on the Christian jurists who paved the way for our modern rights framework. She was joined by Justice Jamie R. Grosshans (Florida Supreme Court) for a period of Q&A after the lecture. For more on Kristina's work, see . If you would like to hear the introductions by Anton Sorkin and John Witte, Jr., and the Q&A with Justice Jamies R. Grosshans, check out the full version . SPONSOR: The Witte Lectures are sponsored by . SOUND: Special thanks to Josh Deng for his technical support in getting this audio ready. MUSIC: Prelude No. 2 by Chris Zabriskie. SPECIAL THANKS to Stephanie Barclay for writing a wonderful biogrpahy for Kristina in the Program.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/35778520
info_outline
187. Refugees, Migrants, & the Church — Matthew Soerens
03/05/2025
187. Refugees, Migrants, & the Church — Matthew Soerens
Today, a sharply divided Supreme Court reinstated a lower-court order for the Trump administration to release frozen foreign aid. In this episode, I talk with Matthew Soerens of about some of the recent executive orders and how marginalized voices can help restore the American church in its places of prominence. Matt began his World Relief journey in 2005 as an intern in Nicaragua. Since then he served as a Department of Justice-accredited legal counselor in Chicagoland before assuming the role of U.S. Director of Church Mobilization and Advocacy. He is the co-author of three books including (InterVarsity Press, 2018) and (InterVarsity Press, 2022). He is a graduate of Wheaton College, where he has also served as a guest faculty member in the Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership program, and earned a master’s degree from DePaul University’s School of Public Service. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/35546500
info_outline
186. Title VII & Religious Accommodation — Blaine L. Hutchison & Bruce Cameron
02/19/2025
186. Title VII & Religious Accommodation — Blaine L. Hutchison & Bruce Cameron
Today we delve into the world of Title VII by looking at the pending case in Carter v. Transp. Workers Union of Am. Local 556. The focus of our discussion will be on the paper from Blaine Hutchison in the Texas Review of Law & Politics, entitled Title VII’s Religious Liberty Rules in Carter (). Blaine is joined by one of the premier experts in the field of employment law and also my old professor, Bruce Cameron. As part of this conversation, we lay out some history for Religious Accommodation claims, the importance of protecting the conscience, the freewheelin’ accommodation claim (for more, see ), the background in Carter, and more. Professor Bruce Cameron () teaches employment discrimination law at Regent University School of Law and has been litigating religious accommodation cases for the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation for four decades. Blaine Hutchinson () is a staff attorney with the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation. Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/35345365
info_outline
185. Christianity & the "Liberal" Income Tax — Andrew Hayashi
02/05/2025
185. Christianity & the "Liberal" Income Tax — Andrew Hayashi
Many people hate the tax system. It is perhaps the one universal solvent that can bring people together. In this episode, I discuss the income tax system and whether it can actually produce a more equitable society. My guest is Andrew Hayashi, whose paper we discuss is entitled and was printed in the Notre Dame Journal of Law, Ethics, & Public Policy. We discuss some basics of income tax, the Christian critics of liberalism, whether the tax system is in fact liberal, what it can do to achieve the common good, and must more. Andrew is an expert in tax law, tax policy and behavioral law and economics. He joined the University of Virginia School of Law's faculty in July 2013. He is a McDonald Distinguished Fellow at the Center for the Study of Law and Religion at Emory University. Prior to joining the Law School, he was the Nourallah Elghanayan Research Fellow at the Furman Center for Real Estate and Urban Policy at New York University, where his research focused on the effects of tax policy on real estate and housing markets. Before joining the Furman Center, he practiced tax law as an associate at Davis Polk & Wardwell. Faculty profile . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/35156985
info_outline
SPECIAL EPISODE: Living Well — Starr Tomczak (Wellness Program)
01/28/2025
SPECIAL EPISODE: Living Well — Starr Tomczak (Wellness Program)
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently , "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how this environment tends to contribute to high rates of mental health disorders and substance abuse. In an effort to face this challenge, LSM has launched the Wellness Program—focused on providing students resources and discussions to face this issue, together. Our first episode was with Ruth Haley Barton on Establishing Rhythms & Abiding in God (). Our second was with Dr. Barbara L. Peacock on developing spiritual disciplines for soul care (). On this episode, we are joined by Starr Tomczak to discuss her brand new book called . Starr not only went to law school and had a succesful law practice as a corporate lawyer, but she also felt the calling to enter seminary and eventually write this book. She has a BA from Carleton College, a JD from New York University Law School, and an MDiv from Union Theological Seminary in New York City. Check out her website . Music Credit(s): Tokyo Music Walker & Rexlambo.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/35042600
info_outline
184. Calling Is More Than Your Job — Steven Zhou
01/15/2025
184. Calling Is More Than Your Job — Steven Zhou
Many people use the language of "calling" without considering the scope and duration of that word and what it really means to align one’s gifts with community need. In this episode, I get to explore some of these issues with Steven Zhou, a postdoc researcher on the meaning of calling and the author of a Christianity Today piece entitled . Steven and I delve deep into the sociological understanding of calling, what it means to align skills with need, to what extent pride and perserverance play a role in self-understanding, and more. At the heart of our conversation is academic study. Steven completed his Ph.D. in Industrial & Organizational Psychology from George Mason University, studying under Dr. Stephen Zaccaro and Dr. Philseok Lee. He previously received a B.A. in Industrial & Organizational Psychology and M.A. in Religion from Pepperdine University. He also has four years of full-time applied work experience in human resources, data analytics, and non-profit management along with consulting experience in leadership development and data analysis. Full bio . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
/episode/index/show/crossandgavel/id/34863160