Smart Money Moves: How to Grow Your Shop Without Breaking the Bank, Ep #22
Release Date: 07/10/2025
Cash Flow Power Moves: Pricing, Terms & Tools That Protect Your Business, Ep #33
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In this special crossover episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne joins Josh McCain on The Throughput Show for a fully interactive, live conversation about one of the most misunderstood and mission-critical topics in manufacturing: cash flow. Unlike traditional episodes, this one unfolds in real time with audience questions, open dialogue, and the kind of raw, honest examples operators rarely get to hear outside of private masterminds. Josh kicks off the episode with his hallmark energy and levity—complete with an unexpected “musical” intro for guests Mike, Jon Hughes,...
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The Section 179 Trap: Why Tax Breaks Shouldn’t Drive Your Equipment Purchases, Ep #32
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When Section 179 and bonus depreciation come back into play, it’s easy to get swept up in the excitement of “saving on taxes.” Every year around this time, I start hearing from shop owners who are ready to buy a new machine before the end of Q4—sometimes for the right reasons, but often for the wrong ones. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good deduction as much as anyone. But if you wouldn’t buy that equipment without the tax break, you probably shouldn’t buy it because of it. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with my good friend Ty Willis from Verdant...
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How Foreign Trade Zones Can Unlock Millions in Working Capital, Ep #31
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When tariffs, trade policy, and cash flow collide, manufacturers are forced to think creatively—or risk being crushed by uncertainty. That’s exactly where Mary Buchzeiger, CEO of Lucerne International and Lucerne Global Solutions, found herself. With skyrocketing tariffs on imported automotive components, Mary realized the solution wasn’t to absorb the hit—it was to rewrite the playbook altogether. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, we dig into how Mary leveraged a little-known financial and logistical strategy: the Foreign Trade Zone (FTZ). By turning Lucerne’s Michigan...
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Building a KPI Culture That Drives Real Improvement on the Shop Floor, Ep #30
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In this episode of Buy the Numbers, host Mike Payne sits down with continuous improvement coach and Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt Brian Karp to dig into the metrics that matter most for manufacturing leaders. Together, they explore how data can be used not just to measure performance, but to transform culture, drive engagement, and spark meaningful improvement across every department. For more than a decade, Brian has helped manufacturers simplify their approach to measurement—turning overwhelming spreadsheets and endless KPIs into tools that actually guide better decisions....
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Inside the Numbers: Roger Atkins’ MTForecast 2025 Preview for Small Manufacturers, Ep #29
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In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Roger Atkins, President of the National Tooling and Machining Association (NTMA), to talk about the real state of U.S. manufacturing as we close out 2025. Representing more than 1,000 small and medium manufacturers nationwide, Roger brings a boots-on-the-ground perspective to the headwinds, opportunities, and trends shaping the industry right now. The conversation goes well beyond statistics to explore the forces behind them. Roger shares his preview of the MTForecast conference and NTMA’s ENGAGE event, pulling back the curtain on survey...
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From First Questions to First Deals: Navigating Machine Shop Acquisitions, Ep #28
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When you’re buying a machine shop for the first time, it’s easy to feel like you’re lost in the dark. I’ve been through more than 150 transactions in my career, but I still remember what it was like sitting across from my first seller—wondering if I was asking the right questions or if I was missing something important. That’s why I love conversations like this one. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Jeff Lee, Operations Manager at Hayer Engineering in Singapore. Jeff reached out after listening to some of our episodes on acquisitions, and the quality of his...
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Top Shops Benchmarking: The Numbers That Separate Leaders from the Rest, Ep #27
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In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne sits down with Dave Necessary, Executive Vice President of Products and Markets at Gardner Business Media, to dig into the power of benchmarking and the Top Shops program. For more than a decade, Top Shops has been the definitive survey that shows manufacturers where they stand—highlighting the practices, strategies, and investments that consistently separate the best from everyone else. Dave shares how the survey functions like a business health check-up, providing both an industry-wide benchmarking standards report and a...
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Beyond the Highest Bid: Selling Your Business with Legacy in Mind, Ep #26
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Selling a business is rarely just about the numbers—and in this episode of Buy the Numbers, we explore why. Recorded at the CLA Connect Center in Minnesota, Mike Payne and guest co-host Erin Mickels sit down with two sets of owners who have recently gone through the process of selling their companies. From fielding unsolicited offers to choosing between 26 potential buyers, their stories highlight the strategic, emotional, and deeply personal factors that shape a sale. Joel Bauer of Midsota Manufacturing shares his unlikely journey from part-time welder to co-owner of a thriving...
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Legacy, Liquidity, and the Long Game: What Really Happens After the LOI (Part II), Ep #25
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If you think selling your business is just about getting the highest number, think again. In Part II of my conversation with the all-star team at CLA—Erin Mickels, Mike Britten, and Mike Pohl—we dig into the fine print that can make or break your deal after the handshake. From LOIs to sales price allocations to working capital battles, this is where the real money is won or lost. We start with what seems like a formality—signing the LOI—but as you’ll hear, that’s often the moment your leverage walks out the door. I’ve seen it firsthand: missed tax planning, bad...
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Legacy, Liquidity, and the Long Game: Building Value Before You Sell, Ep #24
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If you’ve ever thought, “I’ll sell when I’m ready”—you’re already behind. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with three powerhouse advisors from CLA—Erin Mickels (owner transition expert), Mike Britten (tax wizard), and Mike Pohl (wealth whisperer)—to unpack what it really takes to set yourself up for a successful exit from your manufacturing business. We talk through the overlooked planning window between “someday I’ll sell” and “it’s time to list.” Whether you're ten years out or just three, this conversation will help...
info_outlineI’m halfway through the year and, like many of you, I feel as if it’s still February. Orders are steady but not spectacular, and every headline seems designed to keep shop owners awake at night. That’s why I invited my friend and financing partner Ty Willis back on Buy the Numbers—because cautious optimism only works if your cash flow can keep up with your ambitions.
Ty funds machine tools every day, from three-spindle startups to $40 million fab shops, so he sees the real score behind the press releases. In this conversation we pull the veil off equipment financing: when to borrow, when to walk away, and how to keep your banker, your line of credit, and your future robots playing nicely together. We also unpack why a “slow-and-steady foundation” beats any shiny new five-axis—unless that five-axis comes with the cash-flow runway to feed it.
You’ll hear Ty’s three phases of lending wisdom, my own war stories of growing Hill Manufacturing (including a 24-spindle acquisition we’re closing in two weeks), and a practical playbook for calling your shot six months before you sign a PO. We even run a lightning round on interest rates, Section 179, and whether the latest “no payments for six months” gimmick is really a deal.
If you’re tired of financing offers that treat every shop the same—or tired of hearing “rates are too high, maybe next year”—this episode gives you the numbers, questions, and mindset to finance growth without betting the farm.
You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...
- (0:00) Ty’s “run lean first” mantra and why slow & steady wins the race
- (0:25) Check out Verdant Commercial Capital to gain a partner in your corner
- (1:30) Ty’s path from tech to ten years in independent equipment finance
- (4:53) Job shops are softer, DOD/aerospace is humming, and diversification is critical
- (10:09) Using cash flow as the real growth lever; the 24-spindle acquisition example
- (11:49) Ty’s three phases of lending maturity (valuing consultative restraint over volume)
- (17:36) Case study: consolidating eight lenders into one partner to free a CFO’s week
- (22:33) Automation financing myths—why cobots and AGVs often outlive spindles and deserve funding
- (26:40) Sign up for updates about Modern Machine Shop’s Top Shops 2025
- (27:04) Breathing new life into 15-year-old machines with robots, bar feeders, better workholding
- (29:52) Pre-qualification and “calling your shot” before IMTS or FABTECH
- (33:27) South-Dakota-to-Florida move: financing a $500K 5-axis and hidden relocation costs
- (37:41) Chicago fab/machine shop’s methodical growth with bargain used five-axis machines
- (41:42) Ty’s four-step engagement playbook: 20-minute call, one-page soft-pull app, roadmap, relationship
- (44:19) Lightning round: rates, imperfect books, Section 179 reality, deferred-payment traps
- (55:28) Why you need to listen to the Lights Out podcast
Resources & People Mentioned
- Smart Money Moves: Equipment Financing Tips with Ty Willis, Ep #5
- The Cashflow Advantage: Why the Right Banker Makes All the Difference, Ep #6
- Banking Secrets for Manufacturers: How to Secure the Cash You Need, Ep #12
- Sign up for updates about Modern Machine Shop’s Top Shops 2025
- Why we leverage the expertise of CliftonLarsonAllen
Connect with Ty Willis
- Check out Verdant Commercial Capital to gain a partner in your corner
- Verdant Commercial Capital on LinkedIn
- Connect with Ty on LinkedIn
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Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK