EP 30 | Charles Lehman & Brad Carson
Not Even Mad
Brad Carson (Americans for Responsible Innovation) and Charles Lehman (Manhattan Institute / City Journal) dig into the shutdown endgame, Schumer’s calculus, 2026 vibes, and why data centers might be a sleeper issue. They argue affordability vs. “afford to dream,” culture vs. policy, and whether legalization waves for pot, NIL, and sports betting were built to fail. Plus: AI guardrails, why adding friction to vices works, and Goat Grinders on EST vs. EDT, reclining your plane seat, and off-leash dogs. Bonus Q&A about Brad’s Senate race in the Not Even Mad feed. Produced by Corey...
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EP 29 | Steve Hayes & Damon Linker
Not Even Mad
Steve Hayes and Damon Linker debate whether Trump's demolition of the White House East Wing is another norm-busting outrage or just a gaudy renovation. They argue over visuals versus substance in anti-Trump outrage, Trump's manipulation of public opinion, and whether Congress's abdication of power is the true engine of American authoritarian drift. Then: could "Trump 2028" be both a joke and a trial balloon? And in Goat Grinders: the "harm-reduction community," the literal misuse of a certain word, and liberal tolerance of urban squalor. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley...
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EP 28 | Jonah Goldberg and Zee Cohen-Sanchez
Not Even Mad
Hamas hostages, Trump and autocracy, and the strangely quiet shutdown — we tackle all three. Why Trump’s blunt style played in the Middle East, whether “competitive authoritarianism” really fits his second-term instincts and enablers, and who’s taking the fall for Obamacare-premium brinkmanship. Plus: goat-grinders (pointless rebrands at Max and Apple TV, Crowder’s vest-and-glass cosplay, and the humbling age math of Roy Orbison, the Skipper, and the Golden Girls). Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show, contact...
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EP 27 | Ben Wizner and Ilya Shapiro
Not Even Mad
Free speech under heat: the ACLU’s Ben Wizner and the Manhattan Institute’s Ilya Shapiro square off (and sometimes align) on the “ethos” of the First Amendment—from the Ball State firing over Charlie Kirk comments to cancel culture, government jawboning, and campus heckler’s vetoes. We dig into the Supreme Court’s shadow docket and unitary-executive fights, birthright citizenship, visas vs speech rights, and why institutions keep ducking protests. Plus: goat-grinders (the NBA’s three-point bloat, Lyme disease, and one painfully predictable sitcom). Produced by...
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EP 26 | Michael A. Cohen and Jamie Kirchick
Not Even Mad
Michael A. Cohen and Jamie Kirchick discuss the Charlie Kirk assassination and the immediate retreat to priors — who’s weaponizing grief, what counts as incitement, and whether “fascistic” vs. “authoritarian” language clarifies or inflames. Plus, the TikTok law end-run and why process crimes don’t move voters the way visible force does. In Goat Grinders: antisemitic conspiracies about Kirk’s murder; presidential pressure to prosecute Letitia James; and one deeply baffling Visa/Christian McCaffrey toaster ad that raises more questions than it protects appliances. Produced by...
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EP 25 | Galen Druke and Josh Barro
Not Even Mad
Mike Pesca welcomes Galen Druke and Josh Barro for a sharp yet civil debate on Trump’s immigration strategy, crime, and the charge of creeping autocracy. They weigh whether cruelty brings Trump political advantage, how Democrats should frame their response, and what “autocracy makes you poor” really means for voters. Plus, Mike spotlights where polls mislead, why midterms punish incumbents, and why branding matters as much as policy. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show, contact or...
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EP 24 | Rikki Schlott and Isaac Saul
Not Even Mad
New York Post columnist Rikki Schlott and Tangle founder Isaac Saul join Mike to discuss policing Washington, D.C.—who's in charge, who gets blamed, and why federal takeover is more problem multiplier than solution. Then: scalpel or a chainsaw on the syllabus for higher ed. Plus, using the concept of toxic empathy to explain both a recidivist subway-jacker and a diplomatic move toward Palestinian statehood. In Goat Grinders, air travel with babies, The Naked Gun while lying down, and airlines that lie—but only once you’re already trapped in seat 27B. Produced by...
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EP 23 | Zee Cohen-Sanchez and Jesse Adams
Not Even Mad
Unf**k America Tour founder Z Cohen-Sanchez and Washington Examiner contributor Jesse Adams join for a tour through Trump’s waning immigration support, the public broadcasting defunding that will hurt the next generation of Jesse Adamses, and why even Epstein truthers may be losing the thread. They debate whether GOP border hawks want actual deportations or just spicy cable-news optics, and whether NPR got PBS defunded by sheer association. Meanwhile, the Democrats try to square "abolish ICE" with NYC’s obsession with safety—somehow still winning. Plus, Goat Grinders include denied...
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EP 22 | Carine Hajjar and Jeffrey Maurer
Not Even Mad
Boston Globe columnist Carine Hajjar and five-time Emmy-winning comedy writer and proprietor of the I Might Be Wrong Substack, Jeff Maurer, join to discuss the flood of ICE agents and President Trump’s growing suspicion that Putin isn't on the up-and-up. And as part of the political pundit compact—a discussion of all that Zohran Mamdani might mean. Plus, in Goat Grinders: teeny-tiny air conditioning in New York, misinterpreting the cane toad, and (hardly ever) exploding sawdust. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show,...
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EP 21 | Allison Schraeger and Matt Yglesias
Not Even Mad
Economist Allison Schraeger and Slow Boring’s Matt Yglesias join Mike to discuss the unrest in Los Angeles — and how to protest without giving Donald Trump a win. Then, the trio surveys the NYC mayoral mess — or, if not a mess, whatever government-run grocery stores are. Plus, the Big Beautiful Bill is only one of those things, and it’s the worse one. Goat Grinders: summer smells, promiscuous earbuds, and that final month of school when they stop even pretending to educate the children.
info_outlineFree speech under heat: the ACLU’s Ben Wizner and the Manhattan Institute’s Ilya Shapiro square off (and sometimes align) on the “ethos” of the First Amendment—from the Ball State firing over Charlie Kirk comments to cancel culture, government jawboning, and campus heckler’s vetoes. We dig into the Supreme Court’s shadow docket and unitary-executive fights, birthright citizenship, visas vs speech rights, and why institutions keep ducking protests. Plus: goat-grinders (the NBA’s three-point bloat, Lyme disease, and one painfully predictable sitcom).
Produced by Corey Wara
Production Coordinator Ashley Khan
Email us at thegist@mikepesca.com
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