Libsyn Directory

The Art of Espionage

Release Date: 04/16/2025

Human Side of Fraud: Empathy, Education, & Evolution

Easy Prey

People used to think fraud was something that happened in the shadows, rare, distant, and mostly affecting big companies. But after talking to PJ Rohall, it’s clear that fraud is evolving fast, and it’s showing up in places most of us don’t even think to look. In this episode, I sit down with PJ Rohall, Head of Fraud Strategy and Education at SEON and co-founder of About Fraud. PJ’s work is all about staying ahead of scammers and helping businesses and individuals understand how fraud actually works. From synthetic identities and AI-powered scams to account takeovers and refund fraud,...

Identity Is The New Security Perimeter

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Sometimes it feels like every new technology we adopt comes with a new risk we didn’t see coming. From AI and data breaches to phishing scams and ransomware, it's clear we live in a time when cybersecurity isn’t just a tech issue, it’s a human issue. In this episode, I talk with Jeff Reich, Executive Director of the Identity Defined Security Alliance. Jeff has been in the cybersecurity world since the early days, with decades of experience helping organizations protect what matters most. His passion for identity security and risk management runs deep, and he brings a thoughtful...

Your Car Is Spying On You What It’s Collecting and Who It’s Telling

Easy Prey

I used to think of my car as just a tool to get from point A to point B. But after this conversation, I can’t help but see it as something else entirely, a powerful data collection device that knows far more about me than I realized. From where I go and who I text to how I drive and even what’s on my phone, today’s vehicles are gathering a staggering amount of personal information. In this episode, I talk with Andrea Amico, the founder of . Andrea is one of the leading voices in automotive data privacy and someone who’s spent years uncovering the hidden ways cars collect, store,...

Why Everyone’s A Target

Easy Prey

Some scams are so convincing, they’re almost impossible to spot. With phishing emails that look like they’re from your bank, deep fake videos that mimic real people, and AI-generated messages that feel personal, it’s getting harder to know what’s real and what’s a trap. In this episode, I sit down with Gabrielle Hempel, a security operations specialist at Exabeam and a current law student at Purdue University. Gabrielle brings a sharp perspective shaped by years in cybersecurity, a master’s in cybersecurity and global affairs from NYU, and hands-on experience navigating everything...

Child Exploitation Cyber Investigations

Easy Prey

Technology is a double-edged sword. It can empower us, connect us, and solve problems, but it can also be used to exploit, manipulate, and harm. When it comes to protecting children online, that line gets especially thin. Digital forensics, AI-powered image classification, and global law enforcement collaboration are now essential tools for keeping families safe in a world that moves faster than most of us can keep up. Debbie Garner knows this world intimately. She’s a retired Special Agent in charge with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and former commander of the state’s Internet...

Reclaiming the Internet

Easy Prey

We may not always understand the evolution of the internet and how tech monopolies exist, but having digital freedom fighters is vital to making conscious change. Today's guest is Cory Doctorow. Cory is a science fiction author, activist, and journalist. He is the author of many books and most recently, Picks and Shovels, The Bezel, and The Lost Cause, a solar punk science fiction novel of hope amidst the climate change emergency. His most recent nonfiction book is the internet con How to Seize the Means of Corruption, a big tech disassembly manual. Other recent books include Red Team...

Security Gaps Hackers Exploit

Easy Prey

Scammers aren’t just phishing your inbox anymore—they’re impersonating your voice, your face, and even your coworkers. Deep fakes and social engineering have moved beyond clever tricks and become powerful tools that bad actors are using to infiltrate businesses, breach accounts, and dismantle trust at scale. What used to take a hacker hours and expensive tools can now be done in minutes by anyone with a Wi-Fi connection and a little malicious intent. Our guest today is Aaron Painter, CEO of Nametag, a company leading the charge in next-generation identity verification. Aaron’s...

Cyber Warfare

Easy Prey

Cyber warfare is no longer something that happens behind closed doors or in some far-off digital corner. It's happening now—and reshaping the rules of conflict in real time. Drone strikes controlled by apps, ransomware attacks on hospitals—today's battleground is just as likely to be online as on the ground. That science fiction scenario is now a critical, constant threat-the kind that affects us all globally. I'm really excited to introduce you to Dr. Chase Cunningham. He's a retired Navy chief cryptologist with a wealth of experience in cyber operations for the NSA, CIA, FBI—and more....

DDoS Attacks

Easy Prey

Scammers are getting smarter, understanding the psychology behind social engineering and the challenges companies face every day can help keep networks secure. This episode will show how to anticipate these threats and secure networks against ever-changing vulnerabilities. We’ll focus on practical, real-world solutions to protect data and trust. Dr. Jared Smith joins us to share his insights from his role leading research and development at SecurityScorecard. He also co-founded UnCat, a B2B accounting technology company serving thousands of customers and teaches as an adjunct professor at...

Safe AI Implementation

Easy Prey

Red models associated with AI technologies highlight real-world vulnerabilities and the importance of proactive security measures. It is vital to educate users about how to explore the challenges and keep AI systems secure. Today’s guest is Dr. Aditya Sood. Dr. Sood is the VP of Security Engineering and AI Strategy at Aryaka and is a security practitioner, researcher, and consultant with more than 16 years of experience. He obtained his PhD in computer science from Michigan State University and has authored several papers for various magazines and journals. In this conversation, he will shed...

More Episodes

What makes someone betray their country? It’s rarely just about money. In this episode, you’ll hear from a retired CIA officer who spent 25 years recruiting foreign spies by tapping into something deeper than greed. Jim Lawler shares real stories from his career in human intelligence, where persuasion was built on empathy, trust, and understanding what truly drives people.

From failed pitches to high-stakes successes, he explains the psychology behind espionage, how personal stress becomes a powerful leverage point, and why most people who commit treason believe they’ve been betrayed first.

Whether you’re curious about spycraft or just want a better grasp of human behavior, this conversation pulls back the curtain on how people can be influenced to cross the line.

Show Notes:

[00:50] Jim was a CIA operations officer. His job was to recruit foreign spies for the CIA.
[01:21] Most of his career was about battling weapons of mass destruction. His specialty was human intelligence and recruiting foreign spies was the backbone of that.
[02:32] He's now a speaker and a teacher. He's also written three spy novels.
[03:02] MICE Framework: Money, Ideology, Coercion, and Ego.
[05:11] Jim shares a story from one of his first recruitment pitches. He also found out that revenge is a driving force for espionage.
[11:58] Polygraph tests are stress detectors.
[15:16] Divorce is one of the most psychologically tumultuous times in a person's life. When recruiting, Jim would become their best friend because he never once recruited a happy person.
[16:07] He would study the crack system like a rock climber. He was a keen listener and very curious.
[17:33] Empathy and patience were everything when recruiting spies.
[20:21] Jim talks about the metaphysics, which is like a neural link where he would put out what he would envision as an invisible link to the brain of his recruits.
[22:11] If something is too good to be true it is.
[23:45] As a recruiter, he had to manipulate, exploit, and subvert people to get them to do what he wanted them to do.
[27:58] Jim believes in treating people the way he would like to be treated. He was sincere with his actions.
[28:35] He believes in using his powers of persuasion for good.
[32:43] Over 90% of the people he pitched became assets.
[33:48] Jim explains what a cold pitch is and the objective to get the second meeting.
[36:58] His novels are thinly based on operations he did. A lot of his stories are based on things that he has done or things that his colleagues have done.

Thanks for joining us on Easy Prey. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review.

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