Blame the Dentists
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg look at the latest NAR existing home sales report. Sales rose 1.5% to a 3.99 million SAAR, inventory stands at 4.8 months, and the median price is $417,500. Investor purchases jumped from 15% to 20% month over month. Rob argues that housing affordability is becoming a political flashpoint ahead of the midterms. He warns that candidates may find it easy to blame real estate investors, and the realtors who work with them, for the housing crisis. Greg pushes back on how much...
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Treble Damages and Cupcakes
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg recap CMLS, from Errol Samuelson's understated appearance to Robert Reffkin's scripted, heavily criticized onstage interview with Jessica Edgerton. Rob notes that his engagement with Compass ended in September, though confidentiality restrictions still apply. The conversation then turns to the escalating Compass–CRMLS conflict and a heated debate over what the MLS should be in 2026 and beyond. Rob says MLSs need to define their identity and stop simply reacting to events....
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Whose MLS Is It, Anyway?
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Greg calls in from CMLS in Fort Lauderdale, while Rob stays home enjoying some "joy of missing out." Greg recaps the Click-Through Conference for MLS marketing professionals, where his keynote turned into a vendor's candid pitch for how MLSs could structure and monetize vendor marketing. That leads Rob to ask why local monopolies need marketing departments at all, and the conversation widens into MLS competition, Sam DeBord's Real Estate News piece on data monetization, and the question Rob says sits...
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Walking Dead
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview The court has denied Zillow's motion for a preliminary injunction against MRED, and the case now moves to arbitration. Rob stands by calling the ruling a "fatality" for Zillow's Listing Access Standards. Greg argues the fight is far from over and points to PLS v. NAR, which came back after a string of losses. The hosts also debate whether other MLSs will follow MRED's lead, whether a national MLS can handle compliance, and what Zillow does next. Key Takeaways The court denied Zillow's preliminary...
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Roubini Redux
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg riff on Greg's stalled car search, then dig into real estate and macro conditions — new industry efforts to boost housing supply, mounting federal debt and mortgage rate pressure, AI's threat to service jobs, and whether multi-generational living could ease the affordability crisis. Key Takeaways Realtor.com and 13 housing advocacy groups launched LetAmericaBuild.org to educate on zoning, permitting, and housing supply. Realtor.com data puts the housing supply gap at roughly 4 million...
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Who’s Marketplace?
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dig into the Northwest MLS settlement with Compass, unpacking what it signals for the industry beyond the specific deal terms. The core debate: has Northwest MLS quietly redefined "open marketplace" to mean the MLS itself (its paying subscribers) rather than the open internet — and if so, is that a genuine philosophical shift or just a pragmatic compromise to get lawyers off the clock? They dive into the "First Look" compromise, real numbers on how many listings actually go private, why...
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What is an MLS based on "First Principles"?
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg are joined by Michael Wurzer, President and CEO of FBS, for a live continuation of the IDX/data-distribution debate that started at the Columbus Realtors event and continued in a series of dueling LinkedIn posts. Rob argues the MLS should get out of data distribution and marketing entirely; Wurzer defends a reformed, usage-based IDX system; Greg plays referee. The conversation ranges from first-principles arguments about what the MLS is actually for, to pricing and licensing models, to...
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Aggregation Aggravation?
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg open with Greg's car breaking down in 112-degree heat outside Barstow, then dig into the FTC's settlement with Zillow and Redfin over their leasing business deal, which regulators viewed as an attempt to dodge merger review. From there, the two spend most of the episode debating a bigger question raised by Rob's recent exchange with Mike Wurzer: did the MLS create genuinely new value by aggregating listings, or was that value always meant for real estate professionals rather than consumers?...
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What’s a Broker, Anyway?
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg open by unpacking the news that a federal judge has finally approved the Sitzer/Burnett settlement, tossing out remaining objections — officially closing that chapter for NAR and the industry. They debate whether this outcome was a "win" for NAR, discuss the power vacuum left in organized real estate's wake, and praise NAR's recent social media/PR efforts (specifically an Instagram explainer video). The bulk of the episode digs into Unlock MLS's new tiered participant framework (base...
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Big Deep Topics
Industry Relations
The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dig into Brian Boero's "enshittification" post about online home search getting worse, and spar over whether that's really the story — or a distraction from the bigger issues of affordability, potential fair-housing lawsuits, and how AI is about to upend the agent's role entirely. They debate what an "ideal" buyer experience even looks like, whether the industry should be fighting for lower home prices instead of easier loans, and close out with a wider conversation about AI, housing...
info_outlineThe Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!
Overview
Rob and Greg open with Greg's car breaking down in 112-degree heat outside Barstow, then dig into the FTC's settlement with Zillow and Redfin over their leasing business deal, which regulators viewed as an attempt to dodge merger review. From there, the two spend most of the episode debating a bigger question raised by Rob's recent exchange with Mike Wurzer: did the MLS create genuinely new value by aggregating listings, or was that value always meant for real estate professionals rather than consumers? The conversation ranges across aggregation theory, the history of IDX and portal dominance (Zillow, Redfin, realtor.com), whether companies like House Canary and paper brokerages even qualify as "brokerages," and the 2008 DOJ settlement's actual scope. It closes with a debate over how to legally define a broker at all.
Key Takeaways
- The FTC pushed back on Zillow's attempt to acquire Redfin's leasing business without triggering merger review; the settlement requires Redfin to restart its own rental business, though it can still display Zillow rental listings.
- Rob calls the $100M settlement a "slap on the wrist" rather than a real penalty for either company.
- Rob's central argument: the MLS's aggregation of listings created value primarily for practitioners, comparable to Lexis Nexis and Westlaw's value to lawyers, not inherent value for consumers.
- Greg counters that aggregation itself creates new value regardless of who captures it, and that consumers clearly benefit from having listings in one place.
- The two trace the history of real estate going online — IDX, the rise of Zillow, Redfin, and realtor.com — and agree the portals won because they outspent brokerages on user experience.
- Rob argues the industry should unwind IDX in favor of straight data syndication to portals, separating "cooperation" (MLS's original purpose) from "data distribution" (a later add-on).
- Greg pushes back that most agents don't actually get leads from portals directly, but Rob argues that undercuts the case for IDX mattering to them at all.
- A long tangent debates whether entities like House Canary or paper brokerages qualify as "brokerages," and whether the 2008 DOJ settlement (about brokerage business-model discrimination) supports keeping IDX — Rob says no, Greg disagrees.
- The episode ends unresolved, with both agreeing to continue the debate and possibly bring Mike Wurzer on to discuss further.
Links
Debating Rob Hahn In Ohio: Are MLSs Killing Themselves?
Continuing the Debate with Mike Wurzer
Connect with Rob and Greg
Watch us on YouTube
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