Ep184: Real Estate Solutions for Homeowners with Sean Caldwell

Today on the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast, we're talking with Sean Caldwell, a seasoned investor based in North Carolina who generates a lot of business by sourcing off-market deals from distressed homeowners.

We had a great conversation about his success using direct mail and cold calling, and we looked at his offers to help homeowners who are struggling financially.

We also talked about how he finds and uses the data that help identify potential buyers and the data needed for investors to stay ahead of the various foreclosure procedures.

This market is constantly changing, and it's interesting to hear Sean's approach to success while helping people in difficult situations.

 

HIGHLIGHTS

• Seasoned real estate investor Sean Caldwell sources off-market deals through demographic prospecting and finding distressed homeowners.
• Strategies include direct mail and cold calling, identifying homeowners over 65 who receive government assistance, have a mortgage-free property, and have a dated house with needed repairs.
• County governments provide data on delinquent property taxes, allowing investors to identify potential buyers.
• Various solutions for financially struggling homeowners include partnering with a reverse mortgage company or crafting an effective letter series to engage with them.
• Understanding the schedules of each county for foreclosure cases helps investors stay ahead of the curve.
• Approaching homeowners compassionately and providing guidance during tough times is crucial.
• Creating an educational guide for homeowners on when to refinance can help identify those who would benefit from a reverse mortgage or selling their house.
• Engaging with distressed homeowners through innovative marketing strategies for foreclosure prevention can make a difference in their lives and grow the investor's real estate portfolio.
• Understanding the homeowner's real desire and approaching them in a way that makes them feel safe and secure is essential.
• Investing in real estate with empathy and providing solutions for struggling homeowners can lead to personal and financial success.
  
  

 

 

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                                                                 Transcript

 

Dean Jackson

Sean.

Sean Caldwell

Good morning.

Dean Jackson

Well, there we are. How are you?

Sean Caldwell

Well, how are you doing?

Dean Jackson

I am good. Well, here we are. We've got the whole hour And I'm excited to hear what you're up to. Diane is telling me just a little bit about what you do, but I wanna hear as a whole the whole story here.

Sean Caldwell

Sure. So I am a real estate investor I'm based here in North Carolina.

Dean Jackson

Mhmm.

Sean Caldwell

And we typically will either wholesale bills or we'll buy them and keep them and then owner finance them.

 

Dean Jackson

Okay.

Sean Caldwell

And we're typically sourcing our deals off market. So our marketing is this is geared toward more, I would say, demographic prospecting of -- Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

more to geographical. So we're looking or, you know, signs of distress, whether that be issues with mortgage or taxes or dealing with tenants that have evictions or not she is

 Dean Jackson

the

Sean Caldwell

tenants, but dealing with landlords, dealing with eviction, and just any kind of distress situation that a homeowner would find themselves in. Those are typically the people that we approach. And our offers usually, it's you know, we'll send them a letter or a postcard and you know, it's just an offer to purchase their house, and we go into all the details about you know, all the benefits that we offer to them. Mhmm. It's it works, but I mean, for what for the effort that we have to undertake, it's I mean, it's just so much just from the cost of it.

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

The response rate is oftentimes really low. We get a lot of people calling us out. It just it just

Dean Jackson

You're not the only investors in North Carolina looking for

Sean Caldwell

No. No. That's not that. No.

Dean Jackson

There used to be and it used to be a little less competitive, but there are so many people now that are doing the same thing. So especially when you're using trigger data, you don't you're not you don't have a clean runway. There. Right? You've got everybody all over it. So are you so what's the kinda go-to thing now? What's the thing that's working the best for you?

 

Sean Caldwell

Well, direct mail, it it it's what's working best.

 

Dean Jackson

Right. Especially when you have visible prospects. Right? Like, if you know somebody -- Right. -- gotta tell you, you know, whatever. Mhmm.

 

Sean Caldwell

Right. Yeah. So that's work that's worked well. Mhmm. And we've also had six successes with cold calling. I don't like it. I prefer for the prospect to reach out to us when they're ready, but -- Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

we have had success with it.

Dean Jackson

So Uh-huh. So how do you let's talk a couple of things that you know, who's the ideal prospects for you here? Like, who is what's the if we could, you know, find the right -- Yes. Person. So who's ideal?

 

Sean Caldwell

So our best prospect is someone who is on the verge of a tax foreclosure. Mhmm. They are typically sixty five or older, sixty five years or older, they may or may not have some adult child that helps them out. Mhmm. Typically, they own their home, free and clear, are receiving some form of government assistance, whether that be Social Security or any other kind of benefit. Mhmm. And that's the primary source of income. Mhmm. On occasion, we'll run into a widow. And, you know, her husband was the one that took care of everything and now she's kinda stranded and doesn't really know what to do. Okay. These houses are typically dated. And these are oftentimes

 Dean Jackson

these are people who are living in these houses. They're living in the house.

Sean Caldwell

Correct. Yeah.

Dean Jackson

I didn't. So Right. Okay.

Sean Caldwell

Right. Yeah. So these are owner occupants who lived in the home for you know, typically thirty years and longer. Mhmm. And with that has come, obviously, a lot of deferred care. Things are just you know, they got the same bathroom and kitchen set up than they had in the seventies. I mean, it just you know, so they it's dated. It's functional, but it's dated, or if, you know, if they do if everything outside of that, there's typically some repairs that are needed. You know, they need a new roof, but they don't have the money or, you know, the grandkids, you know, were playing and they kicked the hole in the wall and there's a big patch of that kind of thing. So tend to be a lot of deferred care. Mhmm.

 

Dean Jackson

And so do you what triggers them as a prospect for you? Like, how do you get your data? Okay. So this is somebody yeah.

 

Sean Caldwell

Sure. So we we're able to source it directly from various County level governments. Mhmm. Use it to tax the tax assessor. We'll we'll make those lists available of people who are delinquent in their property taxes. So we're able to

 

 Dean Jackson

Mhmm. 

 

 Sean Caldwell

to source it that way. Mhmm.

 

Dean Jackson

So this is just this is you can get a list of like, all these things are knowable. Things. Right? These just what you -- Right. -- source. We build a list of people who are sixty five plus who are hundred percent equity -- Right. -- no no mortgage have been in the property for a number of years. And have tax arrears?

 

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. So so we the counties will just give us the list of the properties and all those deep the details regarding the property tax situation.

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

From our from us having talked to a lot of these folks and sort of build out a profile of them, we've been able to get all that other data. Okay. There's there's yeah. They don't they don't give us all of that sort of personal -- Right.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

that I don't find it. They just say, hey, this person this property as five thousand dollars in unpaid taxes. Uh-huh. And, you know, six to eight months, they're gonna you know, they they're gonna pay it or we're gonna auction our house off.

Dean Jackson

And so how long does it take for somebody if they're in tax arrears how long will until they sell? Or what is that? Mhmm.

Sean Caldwell

Yes. So, typically, you have to be at least a couple years behind And the county will typically work with you to, you know, to try to resolve the situation. And if within, let's say, two to three years, the homeowner fails to pay their delinquent property taxes. Accounties will then assign that property to a third party, usually legal service, or in most cases, a law firm. And that law firm will then carry out the actual foreclosure

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

Mhmm. -- once it gets a

Dean Jackson

tax lien certificate or whatever?

Sean Caldwell

Correct. Yes. Mhmm. In North Carolina, we're a deed state, but, like, in Florida, it's an I know it's a lien state. So, yeah, they'll sell the deed at the auction. Okay. And that and that process, once it gets so we we typically will target those people that we know once that case has been assigned to the attorney. Mhmm. Typically, counties will move forward with the sale between six to eight months. That's the average. Okay.

Dean Jackson

And how much are the homes worth typically? What's the range that you're looking at?

Sean Caldwell

Oh, I would say somewhere, maybe around a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Mhmm. In some areas because we like I said, we don't target, like, specific neighborhoods. In some areas, that have been gentrified, some of the property values can be, you know, two or three hundred thousand dollars. But I would say, typically, for these properties, somewhere right around a hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Dean Jackson

Okay. And how broad an area do you cover? Like, where where

Sean Caldwell

I cover yeah. Mhmm. So I cover Western North Carolina. And within that territory, they're we cover about twenty different counties. Mhmm. But like I said, we don't the reason we cover so many counties is not by choice, but by default because these are these law firms that are handling these foreclosures, they are responsible for those areas. So -- Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

we get the data from them, and that's kinda how we make the decision about you know, what areas are focusing on.

Dean Jackson

I got you. And so how what's the scope of this? How many how many boxes homes are there, you know, that -- Yeah. -- get data for it.

Sean Caldwell

Sure. We so right now, we get our data from two sources and between those two sources. On any given month, there's maybe five hundred properties that are within that tax foreclosure timeline.

 

 Dean Jackson

Okay.

 

Sean Caldwell

Where

Dean Jackson

So five hundred of them a month in those twenties. Counties.

 Sean Caldwell

Yes,

Dean Jackson

sir. Yeah. And then when you get those five hundred, you put them through another filter looking for that they're sixty five, that they've got a hundred percent equity left there. You don't you just go no matter what -- Yeah. -- if everybody is.

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. And right. And the reason why is because again, we've collected so much data. We interview a lot of these people when we're talking to them. So you know, just based on what we know about the average person that we talked to,

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

You know, we kinda have that profile. But to answer your question, we do have software that will we'll upload the addresses in and -- Yes.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

from there, it'll tell us, you know, what the equity position is, if there's

Dean Jackson

Gotcha.

Sean Caldwell

Any liens or anything like that? How, you know, how long they've had to home, all those kind of details? Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

So how do the numbers play out from with your current system there? So you get five hundred of them. Right now. And then what is that trigger for you? What do you do with those five hundred? You mail them Yeah. We'll mail them. Email them. Yeah. Letter or postcard, what it will email them right away?

Sean Caldwell

A letter. We'll mail them a letter. And we'll send them that piece, and then we'll every month, we'll send them another piece is kind of, like, a continuation sequence. Mhmm. And we'll do that over the course of six months. And every month we'll sort of track in the system to see, you know, where they stand in terms of the tax foreclosure process.

Dean Jackson

I gotcha. And so is there when what kind of response do you get to the letters that you mail now. Your offer you mail. The letter, if I -- Yeah. -- summarize it, is hey, we'd like to buy your house or, hey, we noticed you've got tax problems and we'd like to buy your house. Uh-huh.

Sean Caldwell

Correct. Yes.

Dean Jackson

Okay.

Sean Caldwell

And so in terms of response rate, we're usually at maybe half of one percent. Mhmm. No. I yeah. I wanna say that was the last one we did. So, like, yeah, I mean,

Dean Jackson

we're three to return responses for the five hundred letters?

Sean Caldwell

Correct. Correct.

Dean Jackson

Uh-huh.

Sean Caldwell

And it's I mean, it's that that's a lot of pressure to, you know, to produce something when you only get

Dean Jackson

the letters how many letters do you think they got? Just I'm curious. I'm interested in that. Yeah. Like, so in North Carolina. You know, I wonder I wonder how many people got the data that you're getting and mail them a letter. I wonder what their mailbox looks like.

Sean Caldwell

It's it's it's crowded.

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

I would say so I'm just outside of Charlotte and Charlotte is, you know, it's I wanna say we're in the top five market in terms of real estate in the country. So they're they may get ten twenty, you know, solicitations.

Dean Jackson

We got many people saying, hey. Choose me. Choose me. I'll buy your house. I'll buy your house. Right?

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Jackson

And what do you think is the range of the approaches that people are taking? Like, do you think that you know, is anybody have you seen any of the

Sean Caldwell

the marketing that Yeah.

Dean Jackson

Have you have you

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Yes. I have. So so historically, what what people do is they will they'll go to an online print shop. And -- Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

they've got the pre made templates and you just pick a template, upload your list, and they take care of the rest. So -- Yeah.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

in many cases, the homeowner's gonna receive the same marketing piece and same message and

Dean Jackson

Yeah. You think, like, ten people in the same coaching program or something. They they read the same book or took the same course, and they're saying cut and paste the same letter. Yeah. And then Yeah. We did a yellow envelope for one of the pink

Sean Caldwell

envelope for what Yeah. No. We we did

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. We did take it a step further. I did have a copywriter to actually put together a letter series for us, but Uh-huh. It just didn't seem to make much of a difference. I've gotten, you know, positive responses from people, you know, they'll say, you know, I, you know, I appreciate your letter. It's you know, it's well crafted. They most of their comments are about sort of structure of it and how well put together it is. Nothing about selling the house. It hasn't it hasn't account that has not it led to any increase in business.

Dean Jackson

Okay.

Sean Caldwell

So and and that's why that's why I started looking into to your Gogo agent program because -- Uh-huh. Looking to do something that's gonna be different.

Dean Jackson

Right. I hear you. So I'm interested in if we were to take And is it pretty consistent, like, just five hundred a month across the board, plus or minus, or is any is there a particular time of year that's that's

Sean Caldwell

No. But no. If you count yeah. So each county, you know, they have their own schedules for how they wanna move forward with cases. So it's really sort of based on each county.

Dean Jackson

So what happened with these people this is what I'm curious about. If we were to go back to December of two thousand nineteen, we'll go back you know, we're in January twenty-one now. So we're to go back to, like, the or even the class of January. Of two thousand and twenty. What what's happened with those five hundred? People who you would have shown up on the list in January last year. What sort of, you know, happened to them?

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. So the event that typically takes place is some loss of income that could have been that you know, they were tired and they're on, you know, like I mentioned, fixed income. So you know, what they once were able to afford. They're no longer able to afford. It may have been a situation where a spouse was responsible for paying a certain number or say certain percentage of the bills. And because that spouse is passed away. They no longer have that. Mhmm. I've had folks call who you know, they had to take care of a an ill relative and that put them out of work. And so, you know, they've had a tough time sort of been able to manage their financial responsibility. So it's usually someone being becoming ill job loss.

Dean Jackson

Yeah. Yeah. No. I understand that. I was asking -- Okay. -- what's happened to those five hundred homes in about twelve months since they showed up on that list. But I appreciate you telling me how they got on. Okay.

Sean Caldwell

That's good.

Dean Jackson

But what I'm asking is in if it's been if it's five hundred a month, then, right, in January of last year, one year ago, there were five hundred people that showed up on that list for the first time. And what I'm curious about is what happened with those five hundred people between men and now. How many of them sold the house? How many of them rallied and, you know, saved it or whatever would be the outcome -- Sure. -- for those five different people.

 Sean Caldwell

Okay. So -- Yeah. -- was able to get data from an attorney that deals and foreclosures. And what they said is that they told us that about thirty percent of those people that are on that list will end up having their property foreclosed on so that the option. The remaining seventy percent we'll do usually one of three things. They'll borrow the money from a family member or a friend and keep the house. They'll get a loan from a bank or something like that. They'll sell it. Or they'll file for bankruptcy. Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

And how many of them would sell the house? Do you That

Sean Caldwell

part that part I don't know. We haven't tracked it that far out It do all

Dean Jackson

are you to do for you to see you've got access to the MLS. Yes. Right? So it'd be interesting for you to track the that list of people, those addresses, versus the sale records for two thousand and twenty and see how many of them have actually sold. In the twelve months. And when to give you a sense of what the timing is between when they show up on the list, and when something happens. K. Because that to give you a good sense of how to intervene sort of thing. Have you thought of partnering with a reverse mortgage company in terms of the partnering for the marketing stuff because they're either gonna do one of the two things. Right? Like, they're either gonna that could be a solution for people. Do you think some of them go down that path?

Sean Caldwell

I'm certain that there's a percentage of them that do. I've just not ever, you know, had a conversation with them. But I've I've heard about people looking in a reverse mortgage. So I'm sure there's an opportunity to collaborate there.

 

Dean Jackson

Right. Because these people they've got equity and they've got they need to do something. Right? And they're they old enough to qualify. And it's nonqualify. I mean, the only thing they need is age to qualify. Age and equity is really all that stuff. That matters, I guess. But I suppose they've gotta be able to pay the taxes. But that could be an interesting you know, way to do some joint marketing there. Right? Because that's why I'm curious about what the other what possible outcomes are so that you can see you know, kind of filter people into the things. If they're going to be foreclosed, that means that none of the guys like you would have got those properties. Is that right? Or would you buy it in foreclosure? Your goal is to buy it before

Sean Caldwell

for

Dean Jackson

free foreclosure. Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

Yes. Yeah. So if we if we don't if they don't sell to us before the auction, then, you know, then yeah. There's guys that will buy at the auction.

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

Sean Caldwell

But we, you know, we like I said, just having done it enough times, you know, most of these people, this is this is their retirement. This is the next day. This is all that they have. So we tried to you know you know, create an opportunity for them to get a benefit from that equity before they lose it at the auction and get nothing.

Dean Jackson

Right. Right. And so is that the because they're not gonna get anything at the auction. What kind of a price discount? Are you buying the properties? What are you finding?

 

Sean Caldwell

Yes. So we'll typically you know, if we buy it too to keep it, we'll typically buy I mean, we can buy up to a hundred and five percent of the value if we're gonna hold it and own or finance it. Mhmm. If we wanna just flip it to another investor. Usually, we're gonna be somewhere around fifty sixty five cents on the dollar.

Dean Jackson

Uh-huh. And

Sean Caldwell

And so that's those are the sort of the metrics that we look at -- Mhmm.

 Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

and then on what strategy that we're gonna use.

 Dean Jackson

Mhmm. And most of the time, I mean, if they're if you're gonna pay a hundred and five percent or pay marketing value, it's pretty much a property that is in good shape and is ready.

Sean Caldwell

Yes.

Dean Jackson

Ready thing? Yeah. Mhmm. Okay. So that's great. Now, so I wonder what one of the things that's kind of a an opportunity, I think, is to think about what's going on in their minds. Right? Like, if you think about if you take the position of someone who's going through this right now. They're getting first of all, before they got it's been nothing but bad news for a long time, right, to get to this point. Because how long have they been in arrears

Sean Caldwell

years.

Dean Jackson

Before they get to the point that they officially on the list or whatever that you know, they escalate to that level.

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. It'll have been a couple of years. Those three years.

Dean Jackson

Right. So so there's been nothing but if it's, you know, government tax stuff, we're not gonna call them, but there's gonna be nothing but bad news in the mailbox. For two years. Right? Notice. Final notice. This is urgent importance. Right? This is your final warning. Following that to us. So they're used to getting that bad news, and they've probably built a calus on their soul from being the negative assault of all the stuff. Right? They're, you know, adrenaline resistant on that basis. And so here now when it switches, now they're on the list and all of a sudden that unleashes this flood of, you know, lettuce by your by your house, there's. Right? Mhmm. Sell to me. Like, what what's the reasoning? What would be the most common letter if we were to take the letter?

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Yeah. So the most common letter that an investor would send to a homeowner would be, you know, we pay cash. We close quickly. We buy as-is no real estate commissions. You know, you know, there's usually some Top dollar.

Dean Jackson

We pay top dollar.

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Yeah. You know. Mhmm. And usually there's, you know, there's the use of certain colors and certain language to -- Mhmm.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

to, I guess, to get them to wanna take action immediately.

Dean Jackson

Right.

Sean Caldwell

So there's usually some kind of limited time offer or

Dean Jackson

Call today. Yeah. Oh, we're trying to reach you or hand written or I wanna buy your house or they're -- Yeah. -- doing all of that stuff. And are they getting text numbers and stuff too? Or

Sean Caldwell

Yes. Yes. They're doing it's the real estate business, it it's changed so much. And -- Yeah.

Dean Jackson

--

Sean Caldwell

because there's so much money that's made, there are people that see this as a business opportunity. So there's all kind of service providers offering text messaging, voice conferencing, all that -- Yeah.

Dean Jackson

--

 

Sean Caldwell

tracing, door knocking, social media stuff. I mean, you name it.

 

Dean Jackson

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder, you know, if you think about the we had a lot of success when in kind of the first refinance, you know, buzz. When interest rates are going down, down, down, maybe just ten, twelve years ago. When the interest rate everybody was refinanced, refinanced, refinanced. Right? Everybody's screaming. Rates have never been lower now at the time. Refinance, no closing costs, you know, save money, all of that stuff. Everybody getting that message, they didn't really know what the whether it made sense for them. Right? And we did a we put together a report called how to know when it makes sense to refinance. And we started offering that as a way that's really a you know, an education kind of thing for people. Because now they're not you're not saying you know, you're not trying to convince people to refinance. You're offering them a guide to know if it makes sense. Right. And so I wonder in this situation here is do people really know what they're options are, you know?

 

Sean Caldwell

No. No. No. They don't. Typically, they'll they'll say I know I'm in a rough situation. Yeah. I wanna keep my house Yeah. But I don't know what to do about it. I don't know how to how to solve this problem.

 

Dean Jackson

Right. And it's kind of an interesting like, if that's where they're coming from, wouldn't it be an interesting situation to approach it that way. Like, if the five hundred people, they're you're mailing out saying, let me buy your house. And you're getting half a percent, you mean, two or three of them because you're reaching out to them about your selfish desire. Right? That's what you're you're taking your position on it. Right? And even though you're catching it in a way that's making it seem like it's an advantage for them, that if they do wanna sell, that you are, you know, go pay cash and you close quickly and you, you know, all of that stuff. But their if their real desire is to stay, what would be some of the paths that you know, like, if you're thinking about how would you be able to like, if you partnered with a reverse mortgage company, even just as a joint venture from the marketing standpoint. That you're going into those things that if they're at least if they feel like the homeowners, that there's a chance that they might be able to keep their house this way. They might be willing to engage in the dialogue. Right? Which is really more important. And if there, then figure out that that's not going to work that you've already started a relationship with them and just say, well, we could just buy your house. You know? Now that that's really I think when you think about it, that way of starting down the path that they really that they want to go on. Like, imagine that your depends on your approach to it or you come from whether you look at it as you look at them keeping the house as your competition or whether you look at it as your opportunity to build relationship with them.

Sean Caldwell

I get what you're what you're saying.

Dean Jackson

Like, is that when you say that immediately, like, is your thought though that, well, I don't wanna make it easy for them to keep the house because then that's I'm not gonna be able to buy it.

Sean Caldwell

Well, no. No. And again, it's because, you know, we just we talked to so many of them that I know that that their ability to come up with the money is when to not.

Dean Jackson

Right.

Sean Caldwell

You know, if you're sixty five years old, you're retired, you're living on a fixed income, we got core credit, where would the money come from? Right? And so I know that the chances of it happening are slim to none. Right. So so, yeah, I I I understand, you know, your thought process behind that to sort of

Dean Jackson

-- Mhmm. --

Sean Caldwell

sort of have that be the sort of the beginning of the building of the relationships.

Dean Jackson

Yes. Is leading to where they are, which is keep your house. Right? So I'll I'll tell you, like, I'll share something with you years ago. I wrote a book with a marriage counselor. He I met this guy in Texas who'd been doing nothing but saving marriages for forty five years when I met him at me at seventy six. And we wrote a book called stop your divorce. And if for somebody because in most divorces, one person doesn't want it. Most of the time, it's somebody you know, in a lot of cases, it's a mutual that, hey, well, let's just go our separate ways kinda thing. But in many cases, it's one person wants the divorce and the other one doesn't. And that person is billing and wants to do everything they can to keep the merits, to stop the divorce to win them back. Right? Now the the words when you see that stop your divorce, are really attractive to somebody in that situation. And The thing about it is that what Homer did was counseling with people. And the thing that was the magic of it was everybody was completely happy at the end because that's ultimately, what they really want is they don't he gets them to see that it's not that they wanna stop the doors. They wanna be happy. First of all. Right? And so in order to stop the divorce, in many cases, which they were able to, you have to get to a point where you don't need the divorce. You mean, you don't need it to work out. Right? And most of the time, people are frantic and addicted to the other person. But then if they can get to a point where they don't need them, to come back, but they would prefer them to come back. That's the position where the other person now feels safe enough or in the you know, that they can work on the relationship. But when the person who's being left is pursuing and chasing, and trying to convince the other person, you know, don't leave me. I'm I'll change. I promise I'll change I can do better ideas. What about the kids? Come on. Think about the kids. Think about our family. All of those things trying to convince them that they should do something other than what they wanna do, which is to leave right now. And what Homer suggested to people is he would explore that first to get rid of that, you know, neediness for it and then be in a position to make a rational decision. Because often when they get to that point, then they rationally realize that that person's an asshole. That's not the person for me. Right? And there's plenty of people that would be much better for me, so they're happy. But they weren't ready to hear that message early on. Right? That's not the message that they're really looking for right now. And so I think the same thing could apply here that if you were somehow keeping the message of keep your house and helping to educate someone on all the options that they could have to keep their house. And then when they realize none of those options are viable, that there you are as the option for getting rid of the house, getting rid of the problem.

Sean Caldwell

Gotcha.

Dean Jackson

Okay. Like, is anybody is anybody approaching them with a message of keep your house?

Sean Caldwell

No. No. No. And we and to your point, I've actually put together it's a it's just two pager.

Dean Jackson

Mhmm.

Sean Caldwell

But it actually goes into detail about the different ways that a homeowner might be able to keep their home. And

Dean Jackson

-- Yes.

Sean Caldwell

And so we go through, you know, one of the options being to get a loan, bankruptcy, you know, appealing their tax value. Their -- Yeah. -- different counties have different deferment programs where you know Like, when people are

Dean Jackson

mhmm. When people are act looking for options, like, I might take an approach of this of putting together that guide or putting together information that would be the twenty twenty one North Carolina foreclosure rights guide or something like that. Right? That is showing to people what they can and can't do our tax sale rights or guidelines? Or yeah. You see what I'm saying? That it's like I'm sorry. I just I need to get this I need to look for a loophole here kind of thing. Right? That's we need to be saved by a technicality. It says right here that you can't You know what I'm saying?

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Jackson

So people know their rights or know their things. In that way, you say that's why you can you know, if you or your spouse are have received a notice of tax deficiency or a foreclosure. Notice read this, you know. Almost like it's a you're an advocate for them. Right. You're yeah, you're sending a message as an advocate for them. Because it what we're looking for out of those five hundred people, you've got to find five star prospects. Right? And so when I look at it that I'm looking for five star prospects who are First of all, willing to engage in the dialogue. And number two, they're friendly and cooperative. And number three, they know what they want. And you know what they want, and they're it's realistic, what they want. Right? Then number four, that they're ready to get it, and number five that they'd like us to help. And so the approach that all these letter centers are taking is starting at the bottom with the prescription. Let me buy your house. Sell me your house. No. Sell me your house. But we pay top dollar. We do too. I mean, they're all you could switch out the letterheads and just put the content of the letters, and it wouldn't make any difference to anybody, they're all saying the same thing. Right?

Sean Caldwell

Yep.

Dean Jackson

And it just feels to me, like, if you could get fifty of them to engage that, that would be a better outcome. Right?

Sean Caldwell

Yes. Yeah. You know, it's funny you bring that up. I was I was actually What's it? Nestle Balioma? I I I mean, Nestle Balioma. Look. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And looked at their model as far as what they do. And they do a lot of the attorneys will offer up a guide, and it's all the in and out about it. And -- Yeah.

and then at the end, it's, you know, you know, if if you've got this situation here are the things you need to do and here's what you need to pick out for. Yeah. And that that it's fun. That's actually what I was working on. It's So you just you just confirmed that I that I'm moving in the right direction because it's actually something I've been thinking about doing and I actually started putting it together.

Dean Jackson

Well, good. Wow. So you're on your way. If you can make it seem like it's a, you know, an a neutral information objective source of information.

Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Yeah. There's no really though. Mhmm. Yeah. There's no there's it's very little selling in there. But it's -- Right.

like, I think we put, like, in the beginning, just, you know, what is tax foreclosure you know, what are, you know, what are the what's the timeline? What are your rights? You know? Mhmm. So stuff like that, I mean. And then at the end, I think that's kinda where I was tripped up. It's like, well, how do you like, how do you hire a ball on this and, you know, move to the next, you know, the next conversation.

Dean Jackson

Well, it's much easier to keep a conversation going when you've engaged with someone, when you have their attention. It's much easier to shift a conversation somewhere once you've started it. Harder to start it. You know? That's why when you start somebody going down that path, of keeping the house or the options for exploring those options. You have their attention because that's what their attention is pursuing right now.

Sean Caldwell

Okay. So I guess, just from a, I guess, like, it's just a mechanical standpoint. So let's say we put together, I put together a report a twenty twenty one North Carolina foreclosure Drive. And -- Mhmm

In that you know, make it, as you say, neutral and just provide a lot of information that that they would be interested in knowing.

Dean Jackson

Yep. So they have their state and federal government information that's available, that's copyright free that, you know, is freedom of information that you could use and distribute.

Sean Caldwell

Right. So let's say if we once we let's so let's say we set up a landing page and let's say, sort of follow the Gogo agent model and put together a postcard.

Dean Jackson

Yep.

Sean Caldwell

With that report as the lead, the lead, the generator -- Yeah.

they can call in or they can request it through the landing page. How would you continue that conversation on after they have requested that report.

Dean Jackson

Yep. So that then you wanna engage with someone. Right? So once somebody raises their and then the next thing that you're gonna want is to like, if I the mechanism that I would use when you've got their physical address. So when they when you mail the postcard, I would send them to a landing page where they can fill out their information to get the the guide, which would include their email address. Which you might not have in this record. Right? So now you respond then to them. Now you can, you know, engage in a dialogue by email. What

Sean Caldwell

what I guess that's where I'm where I'm going. This is

Dean Jackson

-- Yeah. --

Sean Caldwell

what like, how would I educate what would I educate them on and, I guess, try to motivate them on? Because would I would it be a situation where you didn't you know, you'd say, you know, continue to sort of talk through all the particular about all the different options that are available to them? Or

Dean Jackson

Yeah. Exactly. That's the thing, you know, is that if but if you ask them a question. Like, what I would do is to think is immediately when they respond. You can, you know, send them the guide. And along with the guide, you can send them you know, the option also of, you know, here are some options for you. If you wanna do this, here's a government agency that you could talk to. If you wanna explore a reverse mortgage, here's somebody that you could talk to. If you wanna just sell your house, we could buy it. We could sell it. We could buy it within twenty-four hours. Would you just presenting it as an option?

Sean Caldwell

Right.

Dean Jackson

Now it seems like what would that up? What would that look like? How much would you know, then you're saying to people, it gives you a we give you a pinpoint price analysis. We'll give you tell you exactly what we would buy your house for.

Sean Caldwell

K. And just and just kind of and mimicking the goggle agent. You've got three different a three different Yeah.

Dean Jackson

Whenever you're ready. Yeah. Whenever you're ready, there's three ways we can help you.

Sean Caldwell

Okay. Okay.

Dean Jackson

I might look at putting all that information in the guide into an information, and they do, like, a Zoom webinar, you know, where you could bring a foreclosure attorney and a reverse mortgage specialist. And you all on there to kind of educate people. You know? They may wanna take their chances and put their house on the market traditionally, you know?

Sean Caldwell

Right.

Dean Jackson

That's an option.

Sean Caldwell

That right. And that was again, that's what sort of interest me in the Gogo agent -- Yeah.

 Sean Caldwell

program was because I said, I think it, like, Well, if somebody's in this situation and I and, you know, obviously, that's probably not the conversation they're having right now. But my thinking was, well, if they're looking to if they're in a tax foreclosure, and they're thinking about selling. You know, maybe I you know, maybe the poke maybe they're finding out what their houses worth would you know, would work. Right. From what you're saying, it sounds like perhaps approaching it from a different angle and sort of focusing in on the different way that they might be able to keep their house might be a better way to go,

 Dean Jackson

especially to get the conversation going.

 Sean Caldwell

Right. Right. Okay.

 

Dean Jackson

Right? Because they're gonna that's what they want. They wanna pursue that, and it'd be into your advance to be and make you feel good to be helpful if in case -- Right. -- they can save it.

Sean Caldwell

Sure. Okay. So in that, like, in the follow-up, would you take that time to sort of discuss, I guess, more in-depth -- Okay.

some of the different options that they have to keep the house? Or would you talk about just, like

Dean Jackson

I would. I could yeah. We could still cover

 Sean Caldwell

that overall.

 Dean Jackson

Talk about the well, you talk about all the logistics, the how it happens, what the exactly what the options are. But then you then you're transitioning now into advice or strategy or, you know, an approach to figure out what they're going to do, you know?

Sean Caldwell

Okay.

Dean Jackson

Okay. Yeah. And I mean, if you said if somebody asked the thing was if somebody downloaded the guide, then you send them the initial message that here's where you can download the guide and here's some other videos on this and whenever you're ready, here's three ways I can help you. And then the next morning, send a quick message to them, like a personal message, you know, to them saying, you know, hey, Sean, are you gonna be selling your house or are you hoping to keep it? Just something that's short, personal, and expecting a reply, you know. And that might not be the right words, but something like that.

 Sean Caldwell

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Dean Jackson

And it may be, you know, but that's the thing is you're ultimately a sorting question, you know. Yeah. Is your house for sale now, or are you hoping to keep it?

Sean Caldwell

Okay.

Dean Jackson

Or are you going to be staying? Or once, you know, you start thinking playing around with what those options are?

Sean Caldwell

K.

Dean Jackson

And I think that might be a good way to like, I would expect you would get more than half a percent response to something like that too.

Sean Caldwell

Yes. I do.

Dean Jackson

Just because it's so different from what they're used to getting. You know?

Sean Caldwell

Okay.

Dean Jackson

It's almost like you're on their path. That's oh, what's this as an option? And it's so different than what everybody else is saying to them too.

Sean Caldwell

Yes. It is. K. Okay. Well, it sounds like I've got some work to do.

Dean Jackson

Yeah. What I would also be interested in for you. Is to take the five hundred from January of last year and do a little analysis and see how many sold in foreclosure, how many sold on their own, how many stayed, you know, what happened?

Sean Caldwell

Okay.

Dean Jackson

Yeah.

 

Sean Caldwell

Here we go. And

 

Dean Jackson

maybe you don't need to take all five hundred, but you take a sample of a hundred.

 

Sean Caldwell

I I get you.

 

Dean Jackson

Yeah. Just to get a sense of what the reality is, you know. And if they haven't, so that may make sense to reach out, back out to the ones from last year.

 

Sean Caldwell

Yes. Yeah. That it would be. Because, you know, like I said, these these are these people have lived in the home, out of them raised their children, and it it's you know, they're connected to the neighborhood. Yeah. They they wanna stay there. Yeah. They just don't know that they're not prepared to do what it takes to stay there. They just they're not there yet. They haven't come to that realization yet. Right. So I like it. I like I like entering their that conversation that they're having which is I wanna keep the house. How do I go about doing that? Right. I'm opposed to being about selling it. So we'll make our adjustments to our marketing. Excited to see how it all how it all turns out for us.

 

Dean Jackson

Right. Awesome. Well, I would like to see I'm gonna be interested to see how it all plays out because you may have something that'll be a new approach for your industry there, you know?

 

Sean Caldwell

I I I do. I believe that it would be because, as I mentioned, just the amount of money that is made in real estate investing. If there's something new, something different that's working better than what everybody else is doing. Yeah. It it it'll catch fire. But yeah. So I'm I'm excited to see how it all works out and we'll let you know, you know, how how how it goes.

 

Dean Jackson

Awesome. Well, I've had fun. This has been a good conversation with your very thoughtful guy. I think this is I love that you're gonna played out. So we'll be connected in Go Go agent. We can, you know, connect in the forum and on our calls there. So I wanna see what's happening as you're doing it, and we'll be able to work it all out.

 

Sean Caldwell

That sounds like planned. Thank you, Dean.

 

 Dean Jackson

Awesome. Thanks. I'll talk to you soon.

 

Sean Caldwell

Alright. Bye. Bye.