131: Research:Transporting Young People to Wilderness: Part 1
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Release Date: 06/29/2021
296: Is Wilderness Therapy Like Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy? A Conversation with Dr. Sandy Newes
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Does wilderness therapy create an altered state similar to psychedelic-assisted therapy? And what can both approaches teach us about trauma, embodiment, and lasting change?In this final episode of Season 25, Will sits down with Dr. Sandy Newes, a psychologist, educator, and longtime experiential practitioner whose career bridges wilderness therapy, trauma-informed care, and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. A 2025 recipient of the Association for Experiential Education Michael Stratton Practitioner Award, Sandy reflects on decades in the field—exploring how experience, embodiment, and...
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295: Wilderness Isn’t the Problem
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What do decades of practice in wilderness therapy reveal about ethics, transport, and change? In this episode, Will talks with Paula Leslie—former Aspen Achievement Academy field guide, therapist, accreditation reviewer, and longtime educational consultant—for a rare and reflective conversation about the evolution of the field. First introduced to many readers through Gary Ferguson’s book Shouting at the Sky, Paula looks back on her formative years, the core lessons that still endure, and the ethical blind spots that only became clear with time. From learning to “do hard things” to...
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294: The Most Controversial Wilderness Therapy Program? (Part 1)
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What is the most controversial program in the history of wilderness therapy? Some might say it’s the very program podcast host Will White was compelled to attend as a teenager. In this deeply personal and historical episode, Will shares—for the first time in full—the origin story that shaped his life and ultimately his 35-year career in mental health treatment in outdoor settings. Sent by his parents at fourteen to a “wilderness therapy program” long before the field formally existed, Will describes how the experience built him, challenged him, and exposed him to both mentorship and...
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293: The Parallel Process Updated: What Parents Need to Know
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
How can parents grow alongside a struggling teen or young adult without getting pulled into their anxiety, shutdown, or refusal? In this episode, Will welcomes back Krissy Pozatek to discuss the updated edition of her influential book, The Parallel Process: Growing Alongside Your Adolescent or Young Adult in Treatment. Krissy explains how the mental health landscape has shifted—more anxiety, school refusal, neurodivergence—and why parents can no longer rely on old models of detachment or over-involvement. She outlines her expanded five principles, including her new emphasis on reframing...
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292: The Anti-Program Approach: Belay Life’s Immersive Adventure Model
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What happens when a wilderness guide, therapist, and seasoned mentor decides that traditional treatment programs no longer fit the needs of young adults? In this episode, Will speaks with Andrew “Chappy” Chapman, an innovator who has blended decades of guiding, wilderness therapy work, and young adult mentoring into something entirely new: one-to-one immersive adventure model. Chappy traces his path from SUWS of Idaho to the early days of True North Wilderness Program and later to New Summit Academy in Costa Rica, each step shaping his understanding of how young adults learn, struggle,...
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291: Rethinking Therapeutic Consulting: A Conversation with Amanda Thomas
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What if “consulting” in mental health meant more than just placement? In this episode Will speaks with Amanda Thomas, founder of , about how she and her team are reimagining therapeutic consulting for families navigating complex emotional and behavioral challenges. Their clinically informed, team-based approach blends therapy, coaching, and systems navigation to meet families where they are—often before residential or wilderness treatment becomes necessary. Drawing on her deep background in wilderness therapy and outdoor leadership, Amanda shares how Cobalt bridges the gap between...
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290: The Truths about Wilderness Therapy: What Outcome Research Shows
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What do wilderness therapy outcomes really tell us? In this episode, Will talks with researchers Dr. Joanna Bettmann Schaefer and Dr. Laura Mills, two leading researchers studying outcomes in wilderness therapy and residential outdoor treatment. Drawing on data from thousands of adolescents across multiple programs, they reveal what the evidence shows about who benefits most—and who may not—from outdoor behavioral healthcare. Their conversation explores why family engagement is such a powerful predictor of success, how adopted and neurodiverse adolescents often experience different...
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289: Prescribing Nature: How to Be an Eco-Therapist
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Dr. Patricia Hasbach of Northwest Ecotherapy joins Will to explore how clinicians can bring the healing power of nature into their therapeutic work. Drawing from her new book Patricia shares her journey from traditional therapy settings to incorporating the natural world as an active partner in treatment. She explains the concept of the “ecological self” and how reconnecting clients with nature can reduce anxiety, depression, and stress while deepening connection and meaning. Patricia also offers practical guidance on writing “nature prescriptions,” navigating ethical considerations,...
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288: Kids These Days: Rethinking Youth Mental Health
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Why are so many young people struggling—and are adults partly to blame? Dr. Will Dobud and Dr. Nevin Harper return to Stories from the Field to talk with Will about their bold new book, Kids These Days: Understanding and Supporting Youth Mental Health. Building on their past appearances, they explore why youth mental health keeps declining despite unprecedented access to therapy, medication, and awareness—and what adults can do to change the story. Drawing on decades of research and global experience, they challenge the assumption that kids are the problem, pointing instead to the...
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287: The Nature Fix: The Science of the Outdoors and Mental Health
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Journalist and bestselling author Florence Williams joins Will to explore how time outdoors can transform our minds and bodies. Drawing from her acclaimed book The Nature Fix and her retreats around the world, Florence shares what first inspired her to study the science of nature’s impact on mental health — and how awe, quiet, and sunlight can rewire our brains for calm and connection. They discuss the “three-day effect,” the power of forest bathing, and simple daily practices anyone can use to bring more nature into life — even in cities. Whether you’re a reader of The Nature Fix...
info_outlineThis episode examines research studies regarding transporting teens to wilderness therapy programs with Dr. Christine Norton, a research scientist at the OBH Center at UNH. Transporting unwilling participants to wilderness therapy programs has been referred to as "escorting," "gooning," as well as "legal kidnapping" and is one of the more controversial aspects of the field. Dr. Norton reviews transport research studies, how the research can help inform practice, and changes she is seeing in the field regarding this practice.
Dr. Norton's Bio from the OBH Center website:
Christine Lynn Norton, PhD, LCSW, is a Professor of Social Work at Texas State University. She received her Ph.D in Social Work from Loyola University Chicago. She has a Master of Arts in Social Service Administration from the University of Chicago, and a Master of Science in Experiential Education from Minnesota State University-Mankato. She has taught as adjunct faculty at The University of Denver, Prescott College, and Naropa University. Dr. Norton has over 25 years experience working with adolescents and families in a variety of practice settings including community and wilderness-based outdoor behavioral healthcare programs, juvenile justice, youth and family counseling, school social work, and youth mentoring and educational empowerment programs. Her areas of practice and research interest and expertise are in innovative, experiential interventions in child and adolescent mental health; outdoor behavioral healthcare; experiential education and adventure therapy; positive youth development; foster care support in higher education; and international social work. Dr. Norton is a Research Scientist with the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Center and she helped launch Foster Care Alumni Creating Educational Success (FACES) at Texas State. She is the Foster Care Liaison Officer to the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, and is the founder of the Foster Care Adventure Therapy Network, an international group of programs and practitioners who utilize adventure therapy with current and former foster care youth and young adults. Dr. Norton has over 40 peer-reviewed journal articles, has edited three books, and has authored over ten book chapters. She has secured over $3,179,154 in internal and external research funding as PI and co-investigator, and is a leading social work scholar who has presented her research nationally and internationally. Dr. Norton is active in study abroad and service learning on her campus, and is a Fulbright Scholar, having taught adventure therapy in the Department of Civic Education and Leadership at National Taiwan Normal University from January-June 2017. She also served as a delegate for Women4Peace, a U.S. State Department 100KStrong in the Americas grant, working to bring experiential peacebuilding strategies to rural women and girls in Columbia.
Before becoming a researcher and academic, Dr. Norton worked for Outward Bound (OB) as an instructor and a course director for Intercept, OB's youth-at-risk program. She also worked as a clinical social worker with the Journey program, OMNI Youth Services' outdoor experiential therapy program. She has also been active in the Association for Experiential Education (AEE) for over 20 years. She has helped to establish best practices in adventure therapy, and served as the Chair of the AEE Therapeutic Adventure Professional Group (TAPG). She is currently on the TAPG Advisory Council, has assisted with AEE/OBH accreditation site visits, is a member of the TAPG Certification Standards Committee, and is also an ActivatEE team member and speaking coach. For her service and research, Dr. Norton received both the 2014 AEE Servant Leader Award, as well as the 2017 AEE Distinguished Researcher of the Year Award. She also served as one of two U.S. delegates to the International Adventure Therapy Conference (IATC) from 2009-2015. In this role, Dr. Norton convene 7IATC in Denver, in partnership with Dr. Christian Itin, and was an Ambassador for 8IATC. Dr. Norton remains active with the international adventure therapy community, engaging in global research partnerships and trainings.