131: Research:Transporting Young People to Wilderness: Part 1
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Release Date: 06/29/2021
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What if “consulting” in mental health meant more than just placement? In this episode Will speaks with Amanda Thomas, founder of , about how she and her team are reimagining therapeutic consulting for families navigating complex emotional and behavioral challenges. Their clinically informed, team-based approach blends therapy, coaching, and systems navigation to meet families where they are—often before residential or wilderness treatment becomes necessary. Drawing on her deep background in wilderness therapy and outdoor leadership, Amanda shares how Cobalt bridges the gap between...
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What do wilderness therapy outcomes really tell us? In this episode, Will talks with researchers Dr. Joanna Bettmann Schaefer and Dr. Laura Mills, two leading researchers studying outcomes in wilderness therapy and residential outdoor treatment. Drawing on data from thousands of adolescents across multiple programs, they reveal what the evidence shows about who benefits most—and who may not—from outdoor behavioral healthcare. Their conversation explores why family engagement is such a powerful predictor of success, how adopted and neurodiverse adolescents often experience different...
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Dr. Patricia Hasbach of Northwest Ecotherapy joins Will to explore how clinicians can bring the healing power of nature into their therapeutic work. Drawing from her new book Patricia shares her journey from traditional therapy settings to incorporating the natural world as an active partner in treatment. She explains the concept of the “ecological self” and how reconnecting clients with nature can reduce anxiety, depression, and stress while deepening connection and meaning. Patricia also offers practical guidance on writing “nature prescriptions,” navigating ethical considerations,...
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To hear Dr. Will Dobud's previous episodes: and To hear Dr. Nevin Haper's previous episode: This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute offering adventure inspired retreats for men.
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Journalist and bestselling author Florence Williams joins Will to explore how time outdoors can transform our minds and bodies. Drawing from her acclaimed book The Nature Fix and her retreats around the world, Florence shares what first inspired her to study the science of nature’s impact on mental health — and how awe, quiet, and sunlight can rewire our brains for calm and connection. They discuss the “three-day effect,” the power of forest bathing, and simple daily practices anyone can use to bring more nature into life — even in cities. Whether you’re a reader of The Nature Fix...
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In this week’s episode, Will welcomes experiential educator Greg Hitchcock, who shares the story of —a paid apprenticeship and next-step program for young adults who feel stuck or unsure of their direction. Based on 2,000 acres in New Hampshire, helps participants learn by doing and earn while growing through hands-on training in the trades, including forestry, woodworking, construction, automotive, hospitality, and more. Apprentices live together in a supportive, therapeutic-style community, earning wages from day one while building life skills, confidence, and independence through real...
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In this episode Will speaks with Somerville Johnston, co-founder of , a nonprofit dedicated to helping people navigate grief and loss through nature-based retreats and community support. Somerville shares how her background in Outward Bound, somatic therapy, and adventure programs led to the creation of Bright Shadow, which began with grief retreats for whitewater kayakers and has since expanded to serve a wider community. Together, Will and Somerville explore the power of the outdoors to hold grief, foster connection, and invite healing. They discuss the unique ways blends ceremony,...
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In this episode, Will sits down with Chris Brown, founder of the in Durango, Colorado. Lifeways offers a unique blend of outpatient therapy and guided outdoor experiences—from rock climbing and backpacking to family retreats and professional trainings—all rooted in the “four rooms” model of mind, body, heart, and soul. Chris shares how his team is expanding access by partnering with nonprofits, providing grant-funded programs for teens, and accepting Medicaid and major insurers to reduce barriers to care. He also reflects on why shorter, voluntary wilderness experiences can be...
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In this episode, Will welcomes back Nathan Olsen—winner of the latest season of Alone. Nathan’s roots in wilderness survival run deep: his father, Larry Dean Olsen, was a pioneer in the early years of wilderness therapy, and Nathan grew up immersed in the outdoors through helping out at the Anasazi Foundation and other wilderness programs. We explore his journey in South Africa’s Great Karoo Desert, how a lifetime of “dirt time” in wilderness therapy shaped his survival skills, and the reflections on family, purpose, and the changing field of wilderness therapy. Nathan also shares...
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In this episode, Will reconnects with his friend Chris Robbins, founder of men’s retreats and husband of bestselling author Mel Robbins. Chris shares his journey from corporate burnout to creating outdoor retreats where men come together to heal, connect, and reset. Having attended two Soul Degree retreats himself, Will describes the impact of hiking, fire pits, and time in nature—experiences that inspired him to launch his own retreats for men at The conversation also explores the global success of The Let Them Theory, written by Mel Robbins with their daughter Sawyer, and how its...
info_outlineThis episode examines research studies regarding transporting teens to wilderness therapy programs with Dr. Christine Norton, a research scientist at the OBH Center at UNH. Transporting unwilling participants to wilderness therapy programs has been referred to as "escorting," "gooning," as well as "legal kidnapping" and is one of the more controversial aspects of the field. Dr. Norton reviews transport research studies, how the research can help inform practice, and changes she is seeing in the field regarding this practice.
Dr. Norton's Bio from the OBH Center website:
Christine Lynn Norton, PhD, LCSW, is a Professor of Social Work at Texas State University. She received her Ph.D in Social Work from Loyola University Chicago. She has a Master of Arts in Social Service Administration from the University of Chicago, and a Master of Science in Experiential Education from Minnesota State University-Mankato. She has taught as adjunct faculty at The University of Denver, Prescott College, and Naropa University. Dr. Norton has over 25 years experience working with adolescents and families in a variety of practice settings including community and wilderness-based outdoor behavioral healthcare programs, juvenile justice, youth and family counseling, school social work, and youth mentoring and educational empowerment programs. Her areas of practice and research interest and expertise are in innovative, experiential interventions in child and adolescent mental health; outdoor behavioral healthcare; experiential education and adventure therapy; positive youth development; foster care support in higher education; and international social work. Dr. Norton is a Research Scientist with the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Center and she helped launch Foster Care Alumni Creating Educational Success (FACES) at Texas State. She is the Foster Care Liaison Officer to the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, and is the founder of the Foster Care Adventure Therapy Network, an international group of programs and practitioners who utilize adventure therapy with current and former foster care youth and young adults. Dr. Norton has over 40 peer-reviewed journal articles, has edited three books, and has authored over ten book chapters. She has secured over $3,179,154 in internal and external research funding as PI and co-investigator, and is a leading social work scholar who has presented her research nationally and internationally. Dr. Norton is active in study abroad and service learning on her campus, and is a Fulbright Scholar, having taught adventure therapy in the Department of Civic Education and Leadership at National Taiwan Normal University from January-June 2017. She also served as a delegate for Women4Peace, a U.S. State Department 100KStrong in the Americas grant, working to bring experiential peacebuilding strategies to rural women and girls in Columbia.
Before becoming a researcher and academic, Dr. Norton worked for Outward Bound (OB) as an instructor and a course director for Intercept, OB's youth-at-risk program. She also worked as a clinical social worker with the Journey program, OMNI Youth Services' outdoor experiential therapy program. She has also been active in the Association for Experiential Education (AEE) for over 20 years. She has helped to establish best practices in adventure therapy, and served as the Chair of the AEE Therapeutic Adventure Professional Group (TAPG). She is currently on the TAPG Advisory Council, has assisted with AEE/OBH accreditation site visits, is a member of the TAPG Certification Standards Committee, and is also an ActivatEE team member and speaking coach. For her service and research, Dr. Norton received both the 2014 AEE Servant Leader Award, as well as the 2017 AEE Distinguished Researcher of the Year Award. She also served as one of two U.S. delegates to the International Adventure Therapy Conference (IATC) from 2009-2015. In this role, Dr. Norton convene 7IATC in Denver, in partnership with Dr. Christian Itin, and was an Ambassador for 8IATC. Dr. Norton remains active with the international adventure therapy community, engaging in global research partnerships and trainings.