148: After Wilderness Therapy
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Release Date: 12/07/2021
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What if “consulting” in mental health meant more than just placement? In this episode Will speaks with Amanda Thomas, founder of , about how she and her team are reimagining therapeutic consulting for families navigating complex emotional and behavioral challenges. Their clinically informed, team-based approach blends therapy, coaching, and systems navigation to meet families where they are—often before residential or wilderness treatment becomes necessary. Drawing on her deep background in wilderness therapy and outdoor leadership, Amanda shares how Cobalt bridges the gap between...
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What do wilderness therapy outcomes really tell us? In this episode, Will talks with researchers Dr. Joanna Bettmann Schaefer and Dr. Laura Mills, two leading researchers studying outcomes in wilderness therapy and residential outdoor treatment. Drawing on data from thousands of adolescents across multiple programs, they reveal what the evidence shows about who benefits most—and who may not—from outdoor behavioral healthcare. Their conversation explores why family engagement is such a powerful predictor of success, how adopted and neurodiverse adolescents often experience different...
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Dr. Patricia Hasbach of Northwest Ecotherapy joins Will to explore how clinicians can bring the healing power of nature into their therapeutic work. Drawing from her new book Patricia shares her journey from traditional therapy settings to incorporating the natural world as an active partner in treatment. She explains the concept of the “ecological self” and how reconnecting clients with nature can reduce anxiety, depression, and stress while deepening connection and meaning. Patricia also offers practical guidance on writing “nature prescriptions,” navigating ethical considerations,...
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To hear Dr. Will Dobud's previous episodes: and To hear Dr. Nevin Haper's previous episode: This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute offering adventure inspired retreats for men.
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Journalist and bestselling author Florence Williams joins Will to explore how time outdoors can transform our minds and bodies. Drawing from her acclaimed book The Nature Fix and her retreats around the world, Florence shares what first inspired her to study the science of nature’s impact on mental health — and how awe, quiet, and sunlight can rewire our brains for calm and connection. They discuss the “three-day effect,” the power of forest bathing, and simple daily practices anyone can use to bring more nature into life — even in cities. Whether you’re a reader of The Nature Fix...
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In this week’s episode, Will welcomes experiential educator Greg Hitchcock, who shares the story of —a paid apprenticeship and next-step program for young adults who feel stuck or unsure of their direction. Based on 2,000 acres in New Hampshire, helps participants learn by doing and earn while growing through hands-on training in the trades, including forestry, woodworking, construction, automotive, hospitality, and more. Apprentices live together in a supportive, therapeutic-style community, earning wages from day one while building life skills, confidence, and independence through real...
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In this episode Will speaks with Somerville Johnston, co-founder of , a nonprofit dedicated to helping people navigate grief and loss through nature-based retreats and community support. Somerville shares how her background in Outward Bound, somatic therapy, and adventure programs led to the creation of Bright Shadow, which began with grief retreats for whitewater kayakers and has since expanded to serve a wider community. Together, Will and Somerville explore the power of the outdoors to hold grief, foster connection, and invite healing. They discuss the unique ways blends ceremony,...
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In this episode, Will sits down with Chris Brown, founder of the in Durango, Colorado. Lifeways offers a unique blend of outpatient therapy and guided outdoor experiences—from rock climbing and backpacking to family retreats and professional trainings—all rooted in the “four rooms” model of mind, body, heart, and soul. Chris shares how his team is expanding access by partnering with nonprofits, providing grant-funded programs for teens, and accepting Medicaid and major insurers to reduce barriers to care. He also reflects on why shorter, voluntary wilderness experiences can be...
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In this episode, Will welcomes back Nathan Olsen—winner of the latest season of Alone. Nathan’s roots in wilderness survival run deep: his father, Larry Dean Olsen, was a pioneer in the early years of wilderness therapy, and Nathan grew up immersed in the outdoors through helping out at the Anasazi Foundation and other wilderness programs. We explore his journey in South Africa’s Great Karoo Desert, how a lifetime of “dirt time” in wilderness therapy shaped his survival skills, and the reflections on family, purpose, and the changing field of wilderness therapy. Nathan also shares...
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In this episode, Will reconnects with his friend Chris Robbins, founder of men’s retreats and husband of bestselling author Mel Robbins. Chris shares his journey from corporate burnout to creating outdoor retreats where men come together to heal, connect, and reset. Having attended two Soul Degree retreats himself, Will describes the impact of hiking, fire pits, and time in nature—experiences that inspired him to launch his own retreats for men at The conversation also explores the global success of The Let Them Theory, written by Mel Robbins with their daughter Sawyer, and how its...
info_outlineWhat happens after a young person discharges from a wilderness therapy program? Do they transition home, therapeutic boarding school, or to a traditional school environment? This episode discusses aftercare planning at wilderness therapy programs for teens and how it has changed over 20 years, with more young people returning home or other traditional settings with support from coaches and outpatient therapists.
We dive into this topic with Nichol Ernst, Executive Director at Summit Achievement.
Nichol's Bio from Summit's Webpage:
Nichol is a lifelong Mainer. He was born in Portland. Nichol spent his childhood enjoying all that the ocean and mountains of Maine have to offer. Nichol has only once lived out of the state to pursue his undergraduate degree at Brown University. Nichol then fulfilled his lifelong dream of moving west by migrating west of Portland toward the border of New Hampshire, where he now lives.
Nichol spent many years as a field guide at Summit, beginning in the fall of 2003. Inspired by his work at Summit, Nichol received his Masters In Social work from the University Of New England. He began working full-time as a therapist at Summit in 2008.
Later, Nichol became the Clinical Director of Summit Achievement. He served in that role for many years, though now he is currently the Executive Director of Summit Achievement. While he loves his leadership role, he still carries a small caseload as a therapist. Nichol’s areas of expertise include cognitive-behavioral therapy, family systems theory, and social coaching. Additionally, Nichol is certified in EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy) and Mindfulness. In 2018 Nichol became a co-owner of Summit.
Nichol and his certified therapy dog, Baxter, are often found walking through the woods with students or joining them on their wilderness expeditions. When not working with students and families, Nichol can be found working on his small farm in Western Maine with his family cultivating therapeutic metaphors.