The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
In this episode, talks with veteran high school math teacher and author Kristen Smith to discuss her evolution from a more traditional approach to math teaching, in the style of Teach Like a Champion, to one that might best be described as "teacher-led inquiry". We explore her "Inquiry Sandwich" methodology—a balanced pedagogical framework that leverages explicit routines to build fluency while creating space for deep, conceptual exploration. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're...
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talks with Ron Noble, Chief of Teacher Prep at the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ) to discuss the "Transforming Teacher Prep" initiative. We explore why pre-service training often misses the mark and how prioritizing clinical practice, curriculum literacy, and the science of learning can fix it. Plus, Ron shares how NCTQ's new District Policy Pathfinder is bringing much-needed transparency to school district data. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. Key...
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welcomes math teacher and author Michael Pershan to explore the history of CLT and how he thinks about applying Cognitive Load Theory in his math teaching. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. Key Takeaways: Cognitive Load Theory as a Flexible Toolkit: Cognitive Load Theory is a context-dependent framework rather than a universal "silver bullet." Effective application requires adapting instruction to student proficiency—specifically accounting for the "Expertise Reversal...
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In this episode talks with Haili Hughes, Associate Professor at La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia about her work and thinking on education and teaching. More specifically, this conversation touched on matters of education tribalism, research, it's lethal mutations, and how to put those findings into practice as part of ongoing teacher development and empowerment. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening.Some Key Takeaways Moving Beyond Educational Tribalism: The...
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talks with Mark Enser about his Substack piece titled, A Pedagogy for Powerful Knowledge | Why dialogue, enquiry and cognitive science aren’t competing answers. This episode addresses questions like: "How to combine cognitive science with inquiry-based learning", "Differences between classroom discussion and dialogic teaching", "Why inquiry requires high-level scaffolding", and "How to avoid algorithmic teaching in the classroom". Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening....
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talks with with author and educator Christian Moore to critically examine the "just tell them" model of instruction often championed by popular "science of learning" advocates. Drawing from his book, Teaching Meaning: What Works When Telling Isn't Enough, Moore introduces the framework of "enactivism"—the cognitive science-based perspective that meaning cannot be simply transmitted from teacher to student, but must be actively enacted through experience. This conversation challenges the reliance on scripted, atomized curricula and argues for a "Teaching With" approach that prioritizes...
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In this episode of the ThoughtStretchers Education Podcast, talks with leading education thinkers Dylan Wiliam, Jo Boaler, and Chris Harrison to explore the work and life of Paul Black and his profound impact on teaching and learning, especially the concept of assessment for learning. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you’re listening. Episode Overview In this special episode, host Drew Perkins brings together a panel of world-renowned educational figures, Dylan...
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talks with James Moore, author of Explain Yourself: Master the Art of Explanation in the Age of AI, about how educators and communicators can effectively teach complex concepts. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. James, a former physics teacher and writer for the science-focused YouTube channel Veritasium, champions the core principle of "Show, Don't Just Tell". They unpack his powerful framework for clear explanation: SAD (Structure, Audience, Detail). The conversation tackles...
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talks with education journalist and author Holly Korbey to explore the complex intersection of cognitive science and progressive pedagogy. While the "Reading Wars" often dominate headlines, Drew and Holly dig deeper into the underlying tensions between explicit, knowledge-rich instruction and the desire for student-led inquiry. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at drew@thoughtstretchers.org. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. The heart of this conversation focuses on bridging the gap between human cognitive...
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welcomes back Ted Dintersmith to discuss the urgent need to move away from an education system obsessed with standardized testing and toward one that empowers students to do real, meaningful work. In his new book, Aftermath, and documentary, Multiple Choice, Dintersmith argues that our current system is "perfectly designed" to produce results that are increasingly irrelevant in an age of AI and automation. Book: Film: (2018) Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're...
info_outlineIs the core of teaching history about memorizing history facts, or is it about critical thinking? And what is the role of knowledge-rich inquiry in the history classroom?
Drew Perkins is joined by history educators Lauren Brown, Jonathan Dallimore (author of Teaching History: A Practical Guide for Secondary School Teachers), and Professor Aaron Astor for a frank, dialectic conversation on these essential questions. They discuss the necessity of foundational knowledge, how to promote historical thinking, and the biggest threats to historical understanding in the age of AI and social media.
Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
This deep dive into history pedagogy covers:
- Why college students are showing up “fact-deficient” and the need for better long-term memory retention through context.
- The difference between simple chronology and the power of periodization as a critical thinking tool.
- Why the fundamental historical critical question is “so what.”
- Bridging the gap between knowledge building and inquiry-based learning to equip students with “reality-based community practices.”
- The argument for why historiography (understanding different interpretations and debates) is a crucial form of shared cultural knowledge.
Key Themes & Time-Stamped Highlights
(00:14:18) The Problem of Forgetting: Professor Astor notes that college students often lack basic knowledge, not because they were never taught, but because they forgot previously learned information. He emphasizes the need for repetition and context to make facts “stick”.
(00:18:17) The Multiplication Analogy: The panel agrees that some foundational facts, like multiplication tables in math, must be fluent to prevent cognitive load when performing higher-level tasks, such as understanding complex military strategy or migration patterns in history.
(00:23:07) Efficiency of Explicit Instruction: Jonathan Dallimore explains that concrete, explicit instruction (such as teaching geography on a map) is necessary to efficiently inject context, preserving limited class time for richer, deeper historical conversations (inquiry).
(00:27:37) The Case for Foundational Facts: Lauren Brown supports teaching foundational facts (like the 50 states) at a young age to build knowledge systematically and improve overall literacy and comprehension of diverse texts.
(00:36:56) Context is Key to Memory: Drew Perkins points out that facts are more likely to be retained in long-term memory if they are put in context with other information (e.g., connecting a state’s location to regional dynamics or Civil War loyalties).
(00:45:08) Chronology vs. Periodization: Jonathan Dallimore champions periodization (breaking history into three or four manageable phases) as a more effective tool than simple chronology. He argues that periodization is not only concrete but also serves as a critical tool for later interpretation and debate.
(00:53:10) Knowledge Prevents “Post-Truth Nonsense”: The panel stresses that building a sufficient factual architecture is crucial to prevent historical discussions from devolving into unsupported, opinionated “post-truth nonsense”.
(00:56:48) The “So What” Question: Aaron Astor identifies the fundamental critical question in history as “so what” — encouraging students to understand why a particular piece of information matters and how it is connected to a bigger force or theme.
(01:07:09) Knowledge as an Indicator, Not the Aim: Drew Perkins introduces Grant Wiggins’s idea that “knowledge is an indicator of educational success, not the aim,” emphasizing the value of what a student can do with the knowledge (i.e., critical thinking and making connections).
(01:19:02) The Importance of Historiography: Jonathan Dallimore argues that rich cultural knowledge should include an understanding of the big historical debates and interpretations (historiography) to help students contextualize information encountered on social media.
(01:21:53) Navigating the Modern Information Landscape: Aaron Astor discusses how AI and social media (the “anarchy of takes”) have destabilized the architecture of information, making it imperative for history teachers to inculcate reality-based community practices to discern fact from fiction.
(01:34:01) The Goal: Think Historically: Aaron Astor concludes that the ultimate goal of history education is for students to “think historically” about their worlds and their times.