Balancing Explicit Instruction with Inquiry-Based Math
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
In this episode, talks with veteran high school math teacher and author Kristen Smith to discuss her evolution from a more traditional approach to math teaching, in the style of Teach Like a Champion, to one that might best be described as "teacher-led inquiry". We explore her "Inquiry Sandwich" methodology—a balanced pedagogical framework that leverages explicit routines to build fluency while creating space for deep, conceptual exploration. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're...
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Transforming Teacher Prep
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
talks with Ron Noble, Chief of Teacher Prep at the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ) to discuss the "Transforming Teacher Prep" initiative. We explore why pre-service training often misses the mark and how prioritizing clinical practice, curriculum literacy, and the science of learning can fix it. Plus, Ron shares how NCTQ's new District Policy Pathfinder is bringing much-needed transparency to school district data. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. Key...
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Applying Cognitive Load Theory In The Classroom
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
welcomes math teacher and author Michael Pershan to explore the history of CLT and how he thinks about applying Cognitive Load Theory in his math teaching. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. Key Takeaways: Cognitive Load Theory as a Flexible Toolkit: Cognitive Load Theory is a context-dependent framework rather than a universal "silver bullet." Effective application requires adapting instruction to student proficiency—specifically accounting for the "Expertise Reversal...
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Education Tribalism, Research, & Practice
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
In this episode talks with Haili Hughes, Associate Professor at La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia about her work and thinking on education and teaching. More specifically, this conversation touched on matters of education tribalism, research, it's lethal mutations, and how to put those findings into practice as part of ongoing teacher development and empowerment. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening.Some Key Takeaways Moving Beyond Educational Tribalism: The...
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Synergizing Dialogue, Inquiry, and Cognitive Science for Powerful Knowledge Pedagogy
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
talks with Mark Enser about his Substack piece titled, A Pedagogy for Powerful Knowledge | Why dialogue, enquiry and cognitive science aren’t competing answers. This episode addresses questions like: "How to combine cognitive science with inquiry-based learning", "Differences between classroom discussion and dialogic teaching", "Why inquiry requires high-level scaffolding", and "How to avoid algorithmic teaching in the classroom". Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening....
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Teaching Meaning: Beyond "Just Tell Them"
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
talks with with author and educator Christian Moore to critically examine the "just tell them" model of instruction often championed by popular "science of learning" advocates. Drawing from his book, Teaching Meaning: What Works When Telling Isn't Enough, Moore introduces the framework of "enactivism"—the cognitive science-based perspective that meaning cannot be simply transmitted from teacher to student, but must be actively enacted through experience. This conversation challenges the reliance on scripted, atomized curricula and argues for a "Teaching With" approach that prioritizes...
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Paul Black’s Legacy of Assessment for learning
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
In this episode of the ThoughtStretchers Education Podcast, talks with leading education thinkers Dylan Wiliam, Jo Boaler, and Chris Harrison to explore the work and life of Paul Black and his profound impact on teaching and learning, especially the concept of assessment for learning. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you’re listening. Episode Overview In this special episode, host Drew Perkins brings together a panel of world-renowned educational figures, Dylan...
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Show, Don't Just Tell: Explaining For Understanding
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
talks with James Moore, author of Explain Yourself: Master the Art of Explanation in the Age of AI, about how educators and communicators can effectively teach complex concepts. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. James, a former physics teacher and writer for the science-focused YouTube channel Veritasium, champions the core principle of "Show, Don't Just Tell". They unpack his powerful framework for clear explanation: SAD (Structure, Audience, Detail). The conversation tackles...
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Reimagining Our Pedagogy Conversations
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
talks with education journalist and author Holly Korbey to explore the complex intersection of cognitive science and progressive pedagogy. While the "Reading Wars" often dominate headlines, Drew and Holly dig deeper into the underlying tensions between explicit, knowledge-rich instruction and the desire for student-led inquiry. Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at drew@thoughtstretchers.org. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're listening. The heart of this conversation focuses on bridging the gap between human cognitive...
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Is The ‘What & How’ We Teach Math All Wrong?
The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
welcomes back Ted Dintersmith to discuss the urgent need to move away from an education system obsessed with standardized testing and toward one that empowers students to do real, meaningful work. In his new book, Aftermath, and documentary, Multiple Choice, Dintersmith argues that our current system is "perfectly designed" to produce results that are increasingly irrelevant in an age of AI and automation. Book: Film: (2018) Have some feedback you’d like to share? You can email me at . If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please or wherever you're...
info_outlineDrew Perkins welcomes Gary Schiffman and Jon Bassett of 4QM Teaching to the podcast to discuss their new US History curriculum and the principles behind their innovative Four Question Method.
Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
This conversation explores the gap between traditional inquiry-based learning and the need for explicit instruction in historical content and disciplinary thinking. Gary and Jon explain how their curriculum is designed to support "ordinary teachers" and build students' capacity for civil disagreement by grounding critical thinking in a robust body of knowledge.
- Key Takeaways & Discussion Points The Power of the 4QM Method: We detail why 4QM Teaching shifted from consulting to developing a full curriculum, recognizing the need for a practical vehicle to implement their teaching framework in the classroom.
- The Four Question Framework: Learn the four core questions that anchor every lesson and build specific historical thinking skills:
- Q1: What happened? (The skill of Narration and Storytelling)
- Q2: What were they thinking? (The skill of Interpretation of documents)
- Q3: Why then and there? (The skill of Explanation and causation)
- Q4: What do we think about that? (The skill of Judgment and civil discourse)
- Knowledge-Rich Inquiry: Jon and Gary firmly assert their position in the "knowledge first" camp, arguing that deep critical thinking is domain specific. They share why "structure is liberating" when students are equipped with a strong base of historical facts.
- Teaching Civil Disagreement: Discover how separating the "judgment" question (Q4) allows students to practice the art of civil disagreement in a structured, reasoned way, even when addressing controversial historical topics.
Time-Stamped Topics Key moments in the discussion:
- 06:52 - The origin story and philosophical foundation of the Four Question Method (4QM Teaching).
- 10:41 - A detailed breakdown of the four questions: Narration, Interpretation, Explanation, and Judgment.
- 14:20 - Why 4QM Teaching finally decided to write a full US History curriculum.
- 21:45 - How Question 4 teaches the "art of civil disagreement" (and the related work of Natalie Wexler).
- 36:14 - The argument that critical thinking is entirely domain-specific in advanced fields.
- 52:09 - Simplifying the curriculum to reduce cognitive load with four transparent lesson types.