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Zombie Formalism, Debt aesthetics, and AI & Art: New Yorker writer/critic Chris Wiley

The Conversation Art Podcast

Release Date: 12/02/2023

“The Murder Next Door,” Oakland-based graphic artist Hugh D’Andrade’s first graphic novel show art “The Murder Next Door,” Oakland-based graphic artist Hugh D’Andrade’s first graphic novel

The Conversation Art Podcast

Oakland-based graphic artist Hugh D’Andrade, author of the graphic novel “The Murder Next Door,” talks about: His first graphic novel, The Murder Next Door, including what led him to finally making a graphic novel after being a big fan of them for a long time; studying fine art at the California College of Arts and Crafts back in the 1980s, and then going back to the same school, now called simply California College of the Arts, to get a masters in graphic novels; graphic novelists who have been influential to Hugh, including Adrian Tomine from nearby Berkeley, Chris Ware, who he refers...

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RealTime Arts’ Molly & Rusty on interactive happenings in Pittsburgh, where it's all about RealTime Arts’ Molly & Rusty on interactive happenings in Pittsburgh, where it's all about "Feeling the bean"

The Conversation Art Podcast

In Episode 373, , co-founders of in Pittsburgh, talk about: The especially niche field of their work, which is the performance of live theater that aligns more with visual art and doesn’t really check any of the ‘theater’ boxes, and how they have interactive elements but don’t confront the audience the way a lot of performance art does (they describe a “lot of conventions around theater… that contemporary audiences have trouble with…”); their series “People of Pittsburgh,” whose tagline is ‘Theatrical Portraits of Extraordinary Ordinary Pittsburghers;’ the size of...

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Painting, photography, and hard but necessary decisions: Claire Witteveen, an artist in Amsterdam  show art Painting, photography, and hard but necessary decisions: Claire Witteveen, an artist in Amsterdam

The Conversation Art Podcast

In Episode 372, the 1st half of the conversation with Amsterdam-based painter and photographer , she talks about: Her putting off painting initially in favor of photography, for reasons both practical and related to insecurity, partly based on her mom being an artist who juggled that and being a mother; how she can feel completely disconnected from her photography (mainly when it’s a commercial object), but at other times, especially taking portraits, she feels very connected to her subjects; and how with painting she sees it as a monologue, whereas photography is more of a dialogue; how...

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The White Pube, featuring Gabrielle de la Puente, on 'Poor Artists' and more show art The White Pube, featuring Gabrielle de la Puente, on 'Poor Artists' and more

The Conversation Art Podcast

, half of the art critic duo , talks about: A few things people outside of the UK need to know about Liverpool, where she’s based; the origin story of the White Pube, when Gabrielle and Zarina were in art school together; the reputation of Central Saint Martins, the art school where they met, including where it was when they started school, which was already in a more gentrified, corporate atmosphere (they had to use key cards to get into the studios, for example); their working dynamic since their collaboration started, which involved more in-person activity early on when they were...

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Taking a Break from Meta- please join me in Boycotting all Meta platforms this week show art Taking a Break from Meta- please join me in Boycotting all Meta platforms this week

The Conversation Art Podcast

After learning about the Lights Out Meta campaign, a boycott on all Meta platforms from January 19th thru January 26th, 2025, it sounded like a good idea, and after reading about it more extensively, I think it's a necessary one. Here are the articles I quote from in this one-off boycott episode: and- and-

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Epis. 370: Bullish on Miami 2024- SCOPE Art Show founder Alexis Hubshman show art Epis. 370: Bullish on Miami 2024- SCOPE Art Show founder Alexis Hubshman

The Conversation Art Podcast

Founder of the , Alexis Hubshman talks about everything from its size (approx. 300,000 sq ft of exhibition space), to the number of galleries exhibited (95 from 27 countries) to how he makes the fair run smoothly; his support of new and emerging galleries, giving many of them rent-free booths, subsidized by their corporate sponsor partnerships; how he sees the accessibility of the art at Scope as a form of open-source experience, emphasizing being welcoming to visitors; how and why they’ve taken more nouveau-pop sensibilities out of the exhibition equation; he breaks down Scope’s Miami...

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Epis.#369: Cancel Culture Part 2 (Louis C.K.) and getting Stickered and Nan Goldin’s Gagosian show show art Epis.#369: Cancel Culture Part 2 (Louis C.K.) and getting Stickered and Nan Goldin’s Gagosian show

The Conversation Art Podcast

In the latest OLD NEWS roundup with Emily Colucci of we start by revisiting our prior, charged exchanged about Louis CK, in which Emily was admittedly a bit of an apologist for him, which alienated some listeners- in this case, while we don’t land on the same page, we do air out our respective perspectives, and Emily dubs herself a contrarian. This leads to a brief discussion of the culture of heterodoxy, which promotes viewing issues from multiple angles as opposed to just your typical ideology; Emily’s interest in what she calls ‘the trash aesthetic,’ the pinnacle of which she...

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Episode 368: Tulsa Kinney on her 18 years running Artillery magazine and her complicated relationship with the art world show art Episode 368: Tulsa Kinney on her 18 years running Artillery magazine and her complicated relationship with the art world

The Conversation Art Podcast

In Episode 368, , artist and now former founding editor of magazine, talks about: Why she sold the magazine after running it for 18 years, including burnout but also how impersonal she feels the art world has become since its more modest size when the magazine began; the lack of support she/the magazine received from many galleries, while receiving support from institutions like the LA Philharmonic; the dual role she’s had as an art magazine editor and as an artist, and seeing the art world from both perspectives; how it’s been lovely being recognized (if not necessarily respected)...

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Epis. 367: Lisa Schiff’s bankruptcy, trashing Paul McCarthy’s WS/White Snow, painting underground, and pairing smells with artworks-- OLD NEWS continues with co-host Emily Colucci.   show art Epis. 367: Lisa Schiff’s bankruptcy, trashing Paul McCarthy’s WS/White Snow, painting underground, and pairing smells with artworks-- OLD NEWS continues with co-host Emily Colucci.

The Conversation Art Podcast

In our continued dissection of the OLD NEWS, and I discuss: Indicted former art advisor Lisa Schiff and her upcoming bankruptcy auction, to be conducted by Phillips; how Paul McCarthy is slowly throwing out his immense artwork, WS (White Snow), because he can’t store the work any longer, and how he failed to get any museums to buy the work, ultimately deciding to throw the work out piece by piece, which is, of course, logistically challenging (it takes up 4000 sq. ft of space and contains some very challenging- (read: yucky) ephemera); the art of Operation Under, a collective of artists...

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366: Cancel Culture, an art/fireworks performance gone wrong, the art market, and strategic gallery going- Emily Colucci of Filthy Dreams co-hosts the OLD NEWS show art 366: Cancel Culture, an art/fireworks performance gone wrong, the art market, and strategic gallery going- Emily Colucci of Filthy Dreams co-hosts the OLD NEWS

The Conversation Art Podcast

In the latest round of OLD NEWS with former guest Emily Colucci (creator of the art & culture website ), we cover: cancel culture through the lens of James Franco (who was part of our original recording back in 2016) and Louis C.K.; Cai Guo-Qiang’s botched fireworks performance at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum as part of PST Art’s ‘Science and Art’-themed mega-art event, including injured spectators; our own thoughts and feelings about fireworks, particularly of the neighborhood kind, and how Emily kind of loves the tacky spectacle of them; how California College of the Arts...

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More Episodes

Chris Wiley- Artist, New Yorker photography critic, and contributing editor at Frieze - talks about:

His fleeing upstate to the Catskills during the pandemic, and what his relative disconnect from the art world and the city has been like since the move (though he still keeps a small apt. in the city); the differences between English and American artists in terms of academia vs. the market; his epic two-part articles on Zombie Formalism, which covered not just the movement as a market phenomenon but also what it’s led to, including economic precarity and eventually what Wiley has dubbed ‘debt aesthetics;’ the term from the Crypto phenomenon that Wiley applies to many artists of Zombie Formalism, ‘Walk Away Like a Boss,’ to describe those who were able to earn a very solid chunk of money over their brief careers, often parking it in real estate for long-term security; how Zombie Formalist paintings were, as he put it, “’fast, fungible and friendly,’ just like what currency is;” artists who have the ‘it’ factor, an authenticity demonstrating they would be making their art no matter what; the great promise of a Universal Basic Income for artists, particularly in the context of a debt aesthetics that virtually forces artists to compromise their visions instead of getting to be weirdos; his current thoughts on the implications of AI, which he’s been interested in for a long time, having a father who was interested in computers and science fiction when he was growing up; how and whether artists will be safe in terms of jobs and sustainability in an A.I.-dominant landscape, and how the art world isn’t ready for the kind of speed with which A.I. advances will affect art; the AI-generated photography of Charlie Engman, who has been making a bizarre and prolific body of work using the platform Midjourney, despite being a ‘technophobe,’ in his own words; the challenged viability of a career as an editorial photographer with the rise of A.I.; and how his article on A.I. and Charlie’s work, in The New Yorker, pissed a LOT of people off, and why.