loader from loading.io

A Leader's Guide to Managing Organizational Emotions During Layoffs and Beyond with Emily Levada

The Conversation Factory

Release Date: 10/17/2023

Leading with Respect with Marcy Syms show art Leading with Respect with Marcy Syms

The Conversation Factory

Marcy Syms is a pioneering businesswoman and advocate for respect in leadership. She’s seen leadership fads come and go. She was a CEO when people still thought “women shouldn’t do that sort of thing”  And she’s done something many folks have never had to endure - shuttering her family’s business while making her key creditors whole - an act deeply in line with her core value of respect. Marcy shares insights from her journey in the retail industry, her experiences with leadership dynamics  and her advocacy for the Equal Rights Amendment - something she hopes to see made...

info_outline
The Seven Everyday Habits for Transforming Systems show art The Seven Everyday Habits for Transforming Systems

The Conversation Factory

Download free chapters from : Listen now 👇 🎙️ Spotify: 🍎 Apple:   And please  or Also! support the podcast with  or a : Full show notes:    SUMMARY In this conversation, Adam Kahane discusses the complexities of transforming systems, emphasizing the importance of understanding systems thinking, collaboration, and the role of individual contributions. He shares insights from urban transformation examples, the significance of culture, and the necessity of engaging with systems responsibly. Kahane introduces seven habits for transforming systems,...

info_outline
Innovation, Connection, and Conscious Leadership with Othership CEO Robbie Bent show art Innovation, Connection, and Conscious Leadership with Othership CEO Robbie Bent

The Conversation Factory

Get free chapters of my book, Good Talk, and master the art of conversations big and small: https://www.danielstillman.com/good-talk Please support the podcast! 💌 : https://spoti.fi/3QzcPAW 💌 : or with : https://bit.ly/support-tcf-monthly : https://bit.ly/support-tcf-once Check out for the full transcript and video highlights. Episode page: https://theconversationfactory.com/podcast/innovation-connection-and-conscious-leadership-with-othership-ceo-robbie-bent AI Summary: Introduction and Connection: Daniel Stillman introduces Robbie Bent, highlighting the connection through mutual...

info_outline
The Founder's Financial Compass: Navigating Emotions and Assumptions with Fractional CFO Lauren Pearl show art The Founder's Financial Compass: Navigating Emotions and Assumptions with Fractional CFO Lauren Pearl

The Conversation Factory

Get free chapters of my book, Good Talk, and master the art of conversations big and small: Please support the podcast! 💌 : 💌 : or with : : Check out  for the full transcript and video highlights. Money! It can be an emotional topic. But, as my guest on today's podcast, fractional CFO Lauren Pearl says, it's emotional for everyone in different ways! In this episode, Lauren reveals her perspectives on how to approach these difficult conversations. Given how many leaders she’s worked with, we also explore her thinking about effective leadership, intentional...

info_outline
Join or Die: Behind the Scenes of Creative Collaboration show art Join or Die: Behind the Scenes of Creative Collaboration

The Conversation Factory

Get free chapters of my book, Good Talk, and master the art of conversations big and small: Please support the podcast! 💌 : https://spoti.fi/3QzcPAW 💌 : or with : https://bit.ly/support-tcf-monthly : Check out for the full transcript and video highlights: Key Chapters 00:00 Growing Up Together: A Family Legacy 02:58 The Birth of a Documentary Idea 06:02 Navigating the Journey: Challenges and Growth 09:02 The Lens of Community: A New Perspective 12:01 Conflict and Collaboration: The Art of Working Together 14:54 The Long Haul: Commitment and Transformation 22:15 The Transformative...

info_outline
Founder-Led Sales and Building Co-founder Relationships show art Founder-Led Sales and Building Co-founder Relationships

The Conversation Factory

Get free chapters of my book, Good Talk, and master the art of conversations big and small: Please support the podcast! 💌 : https://spoti.fi/3QzcPAW 💌 : or with : : Check out for the full transcript and video highlights. We break down:  The Importance of Deep and Authentic Conversations and unpack how Natalise fosters honest and open conversations and has worked to build a company culture that reflects these values.  Intentional Co-founder Relationship Building: We talk about how Natalise and her co-founder, Nathan Brown, approached building a strong relationship...

info_outline
The Inner Work of Leadership with Carole Robin, PhD show art The Inner Work of Leadership with Carole Robin, PhD

The Conversation Factory

Master the art of conversations big and small - both inside yourself and in your teams and organization. Get free chapters of my book, Good Talk: Please support the podcast! 💌 Subscribe on Spotify: 💌 iTunes: or with a monthly contribution here: or make a one-time donation here:  For the full transcript, video highlights, and more show links, check out the episode page here: Every conversation - especially the hard ones - is an opportunity to learn more about yourself, to learn about another person and to learn about interpersonal dynamics - if you can set aside judgment...

info_outline
Your Brain on Beautiful Conversations with Anjan Chatterjee show art Your Brain on Beautiful Conversations with Anjan Chatterjee

The Conversation Factory

Download free chapters from Please support the podcast by  or , making , or making . Check out for the full transcript and video highlights. Dr. Anjan Chatterjee is a renowned professor and the founding Director of the Penn Center for Neuroaesthetics. He's a leading expert on how our brains perceive beauty and art, and author of an engaging book on this topic: “The Aesthetic Brain: How We Evolved to Desire Beauty and Enjoy Art" In this beautiful conversation, we explore: the intersection of beauty, conversation, and the human brain how our biological evolution has...

info_outline
Changing the Political Conversation with Nick Troiano show art Changing the Political Conversation with Nick Troiano

The Conversation Factory

If you want to change the game, changing the rules and incentives of the game is a powerful approach. Few people who watch the news - or those folks who avoid watching the news! - would say the political system in the United States is going according to plan. The founding fathers, if they were alive today, would be aghast at the unbridgeable chasm that seems to have developed in our political culture, making dialogue, compromise and progress nearly impossible on some of our most pressing issues.  In fact, our founding fathers warned against the rise of what they called factions in their...

info_outline
The Secrets of Motivation and Systems Change with Becca Block, PhD show art The Secrets of Motivation and Systems Change with Becca Block, PhD

The Conversation Factory

Warning - this episode uses a specific curse word - a lot. And once we started using one, we started using more of them. So…if f-bombs, sprinkled like salt are not your cup of tea, this is a good episode to skip! My guest today is Rebecca R Block, PhD, who is an expert in helping organizations build programs, services and products that equip young people to develop the confidence and skills they need to enter adulthood as thriving and adaptable lifelong learners. She has spent the last 14 years leading the design, improvement, and evaluation of educational programs and services to make them...

info_outline
 
More Episodes

My guest today, Emily Levada, is a seasoned Chief Product & Technology Officer. Currently, she is the Chief Product Officer and Interim co-CEO at Embark Veterinary, a company dedicated to leveraging genetics to enhance the health and longevity of dogs. During her tenure, the company has achieved notable recognition, ranking as the #3 fastest-growing private company in Massachusetts and earning a spot on Forbes' list of promising venture-backed startups.

She also serves as a Board Member at JCC Greater Boston, bringing her expertise to contribute to the organization's growth and development and holds a significant role as a Member of the Customer Advisory Board at UserTesting, where she actively engages in guiding and advising the company.

Emily is also a two-time podcast guest, my first ever!  We did an episode a few years back where she shared some wonderful insights and frameworks about Trust, Communication and Psychological Safety in teams.

Emily was also gracious enough to be a guest mentor for the Innovation Leadership Accelerator cohort I co-ran with my friend Jay Melone from the product innovation consultancy New Haircut some years back. 

In this conversation, we sat down to talk about managing organizational emotions, especially negative emotions, and especially during critical junctures, like layoffs - something that many folks have been through, and many folks in the past year. I knew that Emily had some experience with this in the past and had some great thinking to share around this crucial leadership topic. 

There’s no *good* side to be on in a downsizing event - the people who are losing their jobs and income are also losing a sense of identity and need to navigate an uncertain future. But the loss of identity and the need to face an uncertain future is also true for the folks who are still with the company - both the “rank and file” and the leadership. 

Layoffs done poorly can dent a company culture.

Emily emphasized the importance of transparency in the period leading up to a layoff, as it builds trust and can mitigate negative emotions. 

On the other hand, leaders often have a desire to protect people from such difficult conversations until the last possible moment, so the whole team can focus on their day-to-day jobs.

I explored this polar tension between these two fundamental values, transparency and protection, with Emily using a tool called Polarity Mapping, developed by Barry Johnson Ph.D., the creator (and registered trademark holder!) of The Polarity Map®! You can read more about polarity mapping in my friend Stephen Andserson’s short blog post here and check out Dr. Johnson’s company, Polarity Partnerships here. IMHO, Stephen’s version of Barry’s diagram (below) is a bit clearer!

The basic idea of Polarity mapping is that often we feel pulled by two values, like:

Should we focus on Innovation or Efficiency? 

Should we prioritize Deadlines or Quality?

Growth vs. Consolidation?

Short-term Gains vs. Long-term Organic Growth?

Centralization vs. Decentralization?

(thanks for these examples, Stephen!)

In my own coaching work, I’ve found leaders can struggle to navigate conflicting parts of themselves, forming inner polar tensions that leave them feeling stuck, like: 

“I need to be flexible vs I need to be firm”

“I need to lead the conversation vs I need to let the conversation flow”

“I need to be aggressive or I have to be more passive”

“I need to listen more vs I feel the need to fix challenges”

“I want to be authentically myself vs I need to be a chameleon to get by”

And because we get pulled between them, and feel the polarity to be an unwinnable double bind of “damned if I do,” we kind of flub the balancing act. Polarity mapping asks us to be ultra-specific about the positives of both values AND to be very clear on the downsides of over-indexing on one value to the detriment of the other.

Doing a mapping like this can help us thread the needle of polarity, and look out for the early warning signs of over-indexing in one direction or another.

Below is a version of a polarity map for the tension Emily describes in our conversation, between Transparency and Protection.

Emily points out that these polarities pop up, not just at crucial moments in a business like layoffs, but in day-to-day operations, too.

Leaders can feel that Emotions are Inconvenient, but Team Emotions have real impact

Emily shares the top three negative organizational emotions she finds can deeply impact a team’s ability to learn (ie, be willing to experiment), be creative (ie, being able to innovate) and be fundamentally effective:

Anxiety (Fear)
Boredom
Apathy

Fear, anxiety, and boredom are detrimental to creativity and productivity in knowledge work. Leaders need to address these emotions and create an environment that fosters engagement and challenge - and ultimately, create a learning organization.

“People cannot do creative knowledge work when they feel fear and anxiety and boredom. Those things are just incompatible.”

Emily suggests that well-run one-on-one meetings are crucial for understanding how team members are feeling and detecting signs of overwhelm, underwhelm, or “whelm” in their job. One-on-ones can help build a foundation of trust and safety, on which we can build honest and productive conversations.

Emily also shares some straightforward approaches for shifting these key negative emotions:

Anxiety: focus on building psychological safety for teams experiencing anxiety, and provide more transparency and context.
Boredom: create relevant challenges
Apathy: create accountability and challenge for teams experiencing apathy

Head over to theconversationfactory.com/listen for full episode transcripts, links, show notes  and more key quotes and ideas. You can also head over there and become a monthly supporter of the show for as little as $8 a month. You'll get complimentary access to exclusive workshops and resources that I only share with this circle of facilitators and leaders.

Links

Trust, Communication, and Psychological Safety with Emily Levada

The Joys of Polarity Mapping, by Stephen Anderson

Polarity Partnerships