Keys To Success In Voiceover

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Jennifer Sims, a voice actor, coach, and self-proclaimed "100% certified smarty pants," connect to explore the intricate layers of the voiceover industry. Listen in as we unpack Jennifer's unique journey, shaped by diverse experiences in acting, producing, and voiceover, offering a candid look into the crucial insights needed to navigate challenges and build a truly thriving business in today's landscape. Listeners will discover the essential role of professionalism and adaptability in connecting with clients, gain understanding of the industry's evolving demands, and appreciate the power of a well-rounded skill set. 

 

00:01 - Anne (Host)

Hey, guys, it's Anne from VO BOSS here.

00:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)

And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO BOSS VIP membership, now with even more benefits.

00:10 - Anne (Host)

So, not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP Plus Tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.

00:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)

You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best: voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.

00:32 - Anne (Host)

Join us, guys, at VO BOSS and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit voboss.com/vip-membership to sign up today.

00:45 - Speaker 3 (Announcement)

It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast.

01:04 - Anne (Host)

I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I have the pleasure and honor of being with a very special guest, Jennifer Sims. Jennifer, yay! Hi, hi.

01:17

For those bosses who do not know Jennifer, she is a voice actor coach and 100% certified smarty pants. I'm so jealous, so jealous of that branding. She's known for her authentic, conversational, confident, and playful delivery and has a unique perspective from both sides of the glass, and works for clients such as Hyundai, Wells Fargo, CVS, Vons—the list goes on and on and on. She honed her quirky sense of humor studying comedy and improv, which is always so important, I think, for us as voice actors, at the Upright Citizens Brigade and The Groundlings, and that helped her to land on-camera commercials for Uber, Snapchat, and WebMD. She began her acting career out of high school and basically was on her own for a short period of time in LA as a very young girl, which is great, and also as a producer, has had the pleasure of collaborating on hundreds of radio, television, and promo spots and has worked with some amazing talent along the way. And what haven't you done, Jennifer Sims?

02:18 - Jennifer (Host)

I'm telling you, so much, so much. Thank you, Anne. That was lovely. Not as much as I'd like, and hopefully more. Yeah, thank you. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

02:28 - Anne (Host)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I met you—well, I met you not like physically, but I met you through our VIP room and I was so, so impressed with your background and your wisdom and everything. So I wanted to make sure that I had an opportunity to have you on the show and so our bosses could also get to know you. So let's talk a little bit about your varied career, because I think it's super important in terms of why you're so successful now and how you started off with acting and then as a producer. Talk about that for a little bit and tell us how it's helped you become successful in your voiceover career.

03:06 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, that's been very, like, it informs most of my career, certainly in the beginning, because when I decided to leave my director of broadcast job, I was working for an ad agency here in Los Angeles as the director of broadcast and I was bringing in a lot of voice actors for promo and commercials, etc. You know how it is when you see somebody and you're like, "Boo, why do they get to do it? I want to do it too!" But as I started my career, realizing that we're a part of the process, voice actors are part of a process, particularly in commercial, since that was my area, and when I was bringing in voice actors to record them, it comes very late in the process. Recording the voice actor for a commercial is one of the last things we do as a process in creating a commercial.

03:52

So, knowing that we're just—not just, I shouldn't say this, but we're part of a collaborative team, we're now brought into the team. We're problem solvers, we're creatives, along with the creative director, copywriter, and understanding why the copy is the way it is. I know a lot of us will—problem solvers, we're creatives, along with the creative director, copywriter, and understanding why the copy is the way it is. I know a lot of us will go, "Oh, this copy is terrible. It's poorly written," and, like, you don't know where that copy has gone.

04:12 - Anne (Host)

Isn't that the truth? I love that you just opened up with that perspective because, honestly, like the nuggets of wisdom that people get out of listening—you brought them right at the front when people get for listening to a podcast or being educated. I love the fact that we are part of a process and you brought that to our attention because I think a lot of times we're in our bubble in our studios here and we forget that it's not just all about our voice, but it's part of a process and there's reasons for so many things. Right? There's reasons, and you're so absolutely right.

04:46

How many times have you gotten a piece of copy and I've heard my students, "Oh my God, this copy sucks!" Or I've read on some forum where people are like, "Oh my God, the copy sucks," and "Why does the copy suck?" But I think it's important to know that, yeah, we are part of a collaborative process and it doesn't begin and end with us, and that's an important part to understand so that we know where we fit in. And the more that I think we can predict how we can fit in best to complete the process, I think will really help us as actors.

05:13 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, exactly, really well said and so true. It's like, how do we fit into this process? Because we do, and even now, as an actor working on my, I will sort of forget that there's a lot going on and that when I get copy and I'm like, "Oh, well, I don't know how many R&D, research and development meetings they had on this copy. I don't know what focus groups might have said about this copy." Like, big companies spend a lot of time and money making sure that their copy is delivering a message that they want, money making sure that their copy is delivering a message that they want, and a lot of things. On the ad agency side, we're looking at things—that copy, and I'm like, "Well, legal says we can't say that."

05:51

Right, or legal says we have to say this. So, you know, when we're sort of like, "Boo, the copy couldn't be you," it's like, "Well, you don't know why." Yeah, it may be a legal thing.

06:06 - Anne (Host)

It may be a client directive, it may be, who knows. I always try to remember that because, like somebody, somewhere was paid money to write this copy, and they know that product, or there's an intent with that product, or there's an intent with that copy that we are not necessarily aware of, nor do they tell us, but it's something that I think that we, as actors, we need to create that story, even if they're not telling us what it is. We need to create that story so that we can connect as much as possible to that copy and fit into like what they hear in their head. Right? We need to fit that spec there.

06:34 - Jennifer (Host)

Exactly, and I think it also goes to the idea of given a level playing field of extremely talented actors. Most often, I only needed one person to do the job to solve the problem of whatever problem we were trying to solve creatively. And so I think it's easy to start to feel like, "Oh, I got rejected. I don't book this kind of work." It's like, given a level playing field, just assume that somebody got selected. But it—a level playing field, just assume that somebody got selected, but it doesn't mean that everyone else was rejected. Honestly, as I was listening to actors, I'm like, I wouldn't get in all my auditions for, say, a television commercial voiceover, and I would maybe listen to 50, a hundred, and then call it down to present to my boss, my creative director and client, maybe 10. And any one of those people could have booked it. Somebody got selected, that's all.

07:27 - Anne (Host)

It's just a matter of selection, and the thing of it is is that you're at the beginning of that process, listening to all of those auditions. You would narrow it down to a particular amount of people, but then, ultimately, the decision is not necessarily yours. So I think, voice actors, we forget that, that it can go to your boss and your boss is not. Maybe a casting director doesn't have an ear for it, or just this is what he had—he or she had in mind. And so the pick from then. I don't think it's always necessarily based on your acting skills. It's just like a feeling, maybe, that they have. "Oh, yeah, this sounds right."

08:02 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, it's very subjective. Yeah, it's very subjective.

08:05 - Anne (Host)

And I think we forget that.

08:07 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, and I know that, being that it's so subjective, if you sound just not quite what they want. I had a creative director. I was presenting talent. This woman was extremely talented. I was advocating for her. He's like, "Eh, she sounds a lot like..." I forget if it was his cousin or his ex-wife or somebody. He's like, "And I don't like that person." So she just reminded him vocally of somebody in his world that he's like, "Don't like." She was very good, like perfect for the role, and, subjectively, my creative director was like, "Nope, reminds me of someone, and I don't like that person. Bye." And I'm like, "All right. Well, that's how that's going to go." Or we get replaced. I was the voice of a promo for a really, really long time. It was a great recurring gig and somebody new came in at the top. The client switched positions, new client, and they're like, "No, I want to pick the voiceover," and so, like, I was out. They felt like that was the prior stamp.

09:06

And now they wanted to stamp it with their own.

09:09 - Anne (Host)

That's such a good point because a lot of times, like companies change directors, companies change in departments, and a lot of times you may be the indirect result of that or not like being let go because of things like that that you have absolutely no control over. And so that is also a big part of the process in our heads as actors. We need to remember that on any given day, that it's not always—I think that if you can come into your audition with the skills that you need—the actor skills. Everybody says, "What's trending? What's trending these days? What's the sound these days?" And I'm like, "I think just be an actor, have good acting skills."

09:48

Maybe have good acting skills, because I feel like if you have good acting skills and the person, like say you, right, that is at the initial level of listening to all of the auditions, right, you're going to be able to hear that from the get-go, from the first few words. You're going to hear, "Okay, here's an actor. Now, what I like about this actor is that I can work with this actor." So maybe they didn't give the precise read that you were looking for at the time, but you know that they're an actor and that they'll be able to be directed. Exactly. And I think that's so important—best that you can come in with in your audition, to be armed with your acting skills, to showcase those acting skills, because all the other stuff we just have no control over.

10:25 - Jennifer (Host)

Exactly. Control what you can. You know, getting auditions in a timely—Anne, naming them properly, file naming. I always talk about like naming those.

10:34 - Anne (Host)

Like, why is that so difficult? I don't know. I come from a technology background. It always amazes me how many times people like don't understand how to name files when here's the convention and yet somehow. Right, just copy and paste it and then write your name.

10:50 - Jennifer (Host)

I don't know why, but I don't think actors realize that if they mislabel a file, it's going in the trash. That'll piss off somebody.

10:57 - Anne (Host)

I mean, like me, especially somebody that I'm handling a lot of files, right, and especially like if I have control over it, like you're not hired, and if you're going to argue with me about the name of that file, or if I gave you a confusing—no. I mean, sorry, just follow the following instructions.

11:12 - Jennifer (Host)

But yeah, I think that actors may not realize that if you are missing those little details, like not following the spec, or because you're just like running and gunning and just like, "I'm in a hurry, I'll just read the copy," or not connecting to the copy, or mislabeling the file, it's like that's going to get you booted out of the mix because there's just not enough time and people don't understand. "Oh, so I put my name before the client's name." It's like if you're in casting or you're producing, you're not just casting one thing. So if you put your name first before the client's name, I don't know what to do with this file. Or usually it goes into a database and so the database is just going to go, "I don't know what to do with this. Garbage." I think people just realizing like why it's so important could be helpful. So people just slow down a little bit and go, "Oh, what's the file convention?" That's it. That's my TED Talk on file name.

12:03 - Anne (Host)

There you go. I like that. Well, I'm right there with you on the file—I'm on the file name, I know, because you're dealing with hundreds of files, I know, right? I mean. So I touched upon this a little bit in your bio, which I think is so interesting, is that you studied comedy. Talk to us. And improv, of course, everybody always says, "Yes, improv, improv," yes, and improv, of course, is so important. But I also think comedy, too, is important, because this is just my outside looking in perspective, right? When we're listening, right, we need to command the attention of the audience. Right? Whether we're voicing a commercial or a corporate narration or whatever it is, we need to engage the attention of the listener and that is important. And I feel like comedy is absolutely one of those techniques that can be used to get people's attention and keep it, and I think it's important that if you have comedy in your script, that you can find it and you can execute it. So talk to us a little bit about that and the importance of comedy and improv.

12:58 - Jennifer (Host)

Definitely. Have you been seeing a lot of scripts or a lot of castings where it's like we want people with comedy and improv, even though they may not ask you to necessarily be super hilarious or improv, they're listening for a nuance? A nuance, exactly. Comedy is like very subtle, I think, in voiceover, because when I was producing on the agency side back in the day, comedy in commercials was a lot more prevalent. We had double copy. We very rarely have two characters talking anymore, so it was a little more like in your face kind of comedy.

13:33

Yeah, back and forth kind of. Yeah, back and forth, you could riff off the other person. Now we're pretty much just doing one person voiceover, so that comedy has to be layered in, but never steal from the actual hero—our product or our client. And I think a lot of times when we're newer as voice actors, we're going for the "yucks" like, and it's like, "No, that's going to get you also noticed for all the wrong reasons." So I think I agree with you entirely. It's got to be layered, it's got to be nuanced, and you have to be able to find it. Sometimes people when I'm coaching, they miss the joke. I'm like, "Do you see that there's like a little pithy wit here?"

14:10 - Anne (Host)

They're like, "No." I'm like, "Great." Or a play on words. And here's the thing too, you know, in writing scripts for demos and for my students, comedy is tough to execute in a certain time, like comedy is tough, especially if you're doing comedy writing in a demo. It's very tough to execute without sounding like a one-liner dad joke, right? Yeah, oh gosh, so true. And especially if you need to execute that time and just in a 30-second, 15-second commercial, to execute comedy and a sale at the same time is tough.

14:38

It's tough to do, it's really tough and so it does become very nuanced, right? And corporate, like when you get into like something longer, like corporate narration, you're not going to necessarily find too much humor, unless the brand itself doesn't mind making fun of itself, right? There's not many corporate—not many companies, I know, that make fun of themselves unless they have quirky products, right? If that's our corporate culture, great, but a lot of corporate is like, "No, very straightforward."

15:02

But they might have a nuance, right, and so I love the fact that, yes, if they're looking for that nuance and that is something that is it's maybe a nuance, right, and so I love the fact that, yes, if they're looking for that nuance and that is something that is it's maybe a note, it's a wink, it's a point of view that I think if you can execute and it only needs to happen like a little instant, then that to me, I can hear it right away and people can hear it right away.

15:23

They might not put their finger on it and say, "Oh, that was funny, like ha ha, knee slapping funny," yeah, but the execution of it is really it's key, and I think that comedy and improv is wonderful for people to have as a background in their acting skills. Yeah, I agree, comedy's tough. Did you perform like stand-up comedy?

15:42 - Jennifer (Host)

No, I actually took a couple. I'm like, "No, I'm a smart-ass," but that was tough. So I took—a friend of mine was teaching. She is a comic and she taught classes and I did two of her classes, and after the first class, she's like, "Okay, and you know, as you know, we're going to an open mic," and it was torture. It was brutal. Just a bar room full of people going, "Make me laugh," and I'm like, "This is hard."

16:11 - Anne (Host)

Yeah, I can't imagine. I have a friend who did stand-up in Burbank. Right? Everybody's at Flappers. Everybody's at Flappers and, "Come see my show at Flappers," and if you want to feel challenged, I mean stand-up at a mic in front of an audience. That's like, "All right."

16:26 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, like just staring at you and you're sitting with the mic going.

16:29 - Anne (Host)

Make me laugh. But there's where I think, like the thinking fast on your feet is going to help you, and I think it's going to help you no matter what. I mean those of us who aren't necessarily doing comedy like stand-up comedy, but here we are in our booths and we're doing auditions, right? I think, if you have the time to evaluate and analyze your script and find the humor—I mean we have the luxury of some time of finding that humor and being able to execute upon that. I think if you can do that, if it's there in the copy, that's what you try to put up front and showcase.

17:02 - Jennifer (Host)

I always say I'm going to zag. If everyone else is going to zig, I'm at least going to zag appropriately, because they also don't want to be the actors like. "Well, I remember her for the reason that she went off the rails." It has to make sense.

17:15 - Anne (Host)

It has to make sense for the copy, right? And so I feel like that improv also, when I ask my students to create the scene, right? Be actors for a corporate narration that might be talking about investments or something that might sound dry. What is that story? Who are you talking to? Why does it matter?

17:31

You've got to be able to have that quick, like, let me create the scene and let me respond to it, right, and that just helps to enhance your script analysis, the speed at which you do that, and also if you're being asked live, like, "Give me an AB of that," or an "ABC of that."

17:45 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, how are we going to do that if you haven't created exactly scenario? I always think about how, in scene work and acting, we think about the moment before. Yes, and it's always because you'll hear actors, or I've heard this in auditions lots, where I'm listening to an audition, particularly when I was producing, it's like, "I don't even know why." I hear them saying the script. Why are they saying those words? Why are you even talking? It feels like you just sort of like dropped in cold and started talking, but I don't know why. Yeah, and I always can hear an actor who's a little bit more connected to the copy. Yeah, absolutely, and that's because they created some reason for talking in the first place.

18:21 - Anne (Host)

Yeah, they created a reason to say those first words. There's got to be a response or a reaction. I say that even for corporate copy, definitely.

18:29 - Jennifer (Host)

Even for e-learning.

18:30 - Anne (Host)

You know what I mean. Like you've got a student that just asked you a question and so otherwise, it sounds like to me, I'm always telling my students, it sounds like once upon a time I started a monologue.

18:39 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)

Yeah.

18:40 - Anne (Host)

And it just became like, "Oh, I picked this thought out of the air and I just started saying it."

18:44 - Jennifer (Host)

And there's no reason for it, and so it's weird how we can hear that, isn't that weird? It's like the microphone, sort of like picking up your thoughts, sort of like the camera records thought. That's why you've got to have something going on behind your eyes.

18:55 - Anne (Host)

I think it's like you can hear somebody reading, right, because there's a certain melody and—and I know there's got to be scientific evidence, right? There's a melody that we have when we read words and I know it very well because I'm always telling people to stop reading. Start talking.

19:08 - Jennifer (Host)

Stop reading. You sound like you're reading.

19:11 - Anne (Host)

And so there's a melody to just reading the words, and it seems to start at the same pitch, like, "Hi, I'm Anne, I started here once upon a time." I've heard casting talk about this.

19:21 - Jennifer (Host)

Voice casting agents will talk about this all the time. It's like, again, given a level playing field, the first people we're going to boot out of the running are people who sound like they're reading as opposed to talking, and it's a challenging skill set because we are literally reading scripts, but we're interpreting written speech into spoken speech, and it's a skill set. So it takes time. And I was thinking about how, whenever I'm auditioning for something, I think, well, I'd love to book it, of course, but I always think I'm not auditioning for this one, I'm auditioning for the next one, because, let's say, you know, I don't get selected for this one. I want you to remember me for the next one. So, something I do in this audition, I want to spark a little like, "Well, let's keep her in mind for something else down the road," because that's all I can control, absolutely, absolutely.

20:13 - Anne (Host)

Speaking of auditioning and being an active voice actor and a woman of a certain age, and I say that, you look amazing.

20:19 - Jennifer (Host)

Well, thank you, but let's face it. We've been in the business for a while, not a teenager.

20:25 - Anne (Host)

Yeah, I cannot sound millennial, no matter what.

20:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)

I do, even though I have a younger sounding voice.

20:29 - Anne (Host)

No, it's mostly in the attitude. But let's talk a little bit about having been in the community and been in the industry for a while. What's it like these days being a little bit older in this industry? How are you finding work? Is it plentiful? Are you finding?

20:42 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, I mean it's plentiful, but I still think that in general we're youth-oriented.

20:49

So if you're over a certain age, 40 or beyond. Oh, let's face it, I haven't seen 40 in a minute. Yeah, me either. And look at us, we're thriving. There we go. The voiceover industry is definitely very inclusive. It's getting more diverse all the time. Like when I was producing commercials, you most definitely had to sound a certain way, be of a certain demographic, and now we're hearing all sorts of wonderful, diverse voices. I still think there's room for us to include more voices that are definitely over 40. I'm still hearing people on the air where I'm like, "You don't sound old enough to tell me about retirement or having a baby."

21:27 - Anne (Host)

You sound like a kid. I always try to tell people I start with the product, because I feel like companies are going to promote their products to the demographic they can sell to.

21:38

So it starts there, right? So what sort of a product would you sell to a demographic of females over 40 or females over 50? And I feel like that's where it starts. I feel like the younger sounding. I think it's because the company is trying to expand their demographic to make more sales. I think that's where it starts anyways, because I'm always saying, "Well, the trend right now is a little bit towards more millennial, and that's just the way it is." But I feel like there are certain products that a millennial does not sound realistic.

22:04 - Jennifer (Host)

Talking about like Depends, right, or retirement or certain financial instruments or mortgages or things where it's like wouldn't you have to be a little older to be getting? An elder millennial, at least to talk about that.

22:17 - Anne (Host)

Go you elder millennials. It's hard to believe. I know that in automotive that was a big thing because with Uber and bosses out there, if you study like it's not hard to study, like demographics and marketing, right? I mean during the pandemic nobody was buying cars and younger people were not buying cars because they were really reliant on Uber and Lyft and the rideshare stuff.

22:38

And so car companies started really marketing hard towards younger people and that changes who they hire right to do their voiceovers, and so I think it's something, bosses, that you need to really like spend a few minutes every day studying the market that you want to sell into. Really, it's not hard, it's Google.

22:57 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, it's iSpot, Google. And.

23:00 - Anne (Host)

Google says that honestly, like you can just type in, like, you know, demographic, automotive demographics or, you know, trends, it's easy to find that out and that can help inform you educationally what you might be auditioning for, how you would respond to an audition, right? What is the company?

23:18 - Jennifer (Host)

Who are they targeting their sales to, or who you're, if you're doing direct marketing, which I think every voice actor should be doing, if you're directly marketing yourself to a client. It's like, do you vibe with that client? Are you appropriate for that client? So that's basically how I'm represented. I have talent agents across the country and it's very clear to me that my reps are very good about knowing what my wheelhouse is. So I do get a lot of healthcare, insurance, tech, things like that—healthcare, insurance, tech, things like that, because that's who I vocally appeal to.

23:53

It makes sense, and women have an enormous buying power because we make most of the household buying decisions in most households, and so, even though I still think the guys are doing about 60% of the commercial voiceover work, we're at 40%, so we're catching up, but I think companies are starting to realize that women's voices are appropriate for their products and they want to market to us. So I think we're doing better all the time. So, yeah, there's a lot of content out there.

24:22 - Anne (Host)

So I would say that, with all our wisdom, with all your wisdom—with our collective wisdom, with all our—no, with your wisdom. What would be your best tip for people that are just starting out today? Because the industry has evolved over the years and it has definitely changed. So today, if somebody's interested in pursuing voice acting, what do you say to?

24:41 - Jennifer (Host)

Them? Brand spanking new, I'd say, and I know people are like, "But you all are coaches, so of course you're going to say this," but I would say this even if I didn't coach it: it is a skill set. And so I think you've got to start with good training, and I tell my students this all the time: Get involved in the voiceover community, get your squad together, get an accountability group, a voiceover workout group. You and I were just at the Nava Gala. Is it Gala or Gala?

25:07 - Anne (Host)

Gala.

25:09 - Jennifer (Host)

I think Gala.

25:09 - Anne (Host)

Gala sounds more elegant.

25:11 - Jennifer (Host)

Nava Gala.

25:12 - Anne (Host)

We're the Nava Gala.

25:13 - Jennifer (Host)

And it's just, it's a constant reminder that when we're so isolated and working on our own, if we don't have community around us, this job is hard. It is. I love the voiceover community so much, and so we have a community around us. We're learning things, we're sharing things, and so I always suggest to people, they're like, "Oh, I don't know what to do. How do I help myself in this career?" I'm like, "Well, get good training and get involved in the community so that you're constantly learning from your peers." Or at least, because we're working by ourselves, it can feel a little lonely and isolating.

25:47 - Anne (Host)

Get some VO pals and get lifted up and listen to podcasts like the VO Boss podcast.

25:52 - Jennifer (Host)

Yes, please. Listen to VO Boss, listen to VO Boss, guys. I've been doing this for eight years now.

25:59 - Anne (Host)

Oh my gosh, it seems so forever. Eight years, amazing, every week.

26:03 - Jennifer (Host)

I love it. Oh, my goodness.

26:04 - Anne (Host)

Wow.

26:16 - Jennifer (Host)

So if bosses want to find out more about you, where can they find out more about you?

26:18 - Anne (Host)

I'm a busy kitty on the Instagram at Sims, my website, Sims. I'm busy there too, so, yeah, awesome, come see me. Well, Jennifer, it has been so much fun. I think we could probably talk for another hour or hours.

26:27 - Jennifer (Host)

It would be a delight, but I know you're booked and busy, so we'll get on to other things.

26:31 - Anne (Host)

But I thank you so much for spending your morning with me and bosses, make sure you look up Jen. Can I call you Jen? Jen?

26:40 - Jennifer (Host)

Yeah, go by Jen. Look up Jen. I want to say Jennifer. Jen.

26:42 - Anne (Host)

Check out Jen's website and check her out on her socials. Jen, check out Jen's website and check her out on her socials. Yes, please, bosses.

26:49 - Jennifer (Host)

Yes, absolutely.

26:56 - Anne (Host)

Thanks again, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye, bosses, you're the best.

27:06 - Speaker 3 (Announcement)

Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.