Bold Calling

The Bold Calling podcast tackles the biggest sales challenges through conversations with the industry's most forward-thinking minds. From pipeline growth to AI, customer acquisition cost, to ever-evolving competitive landscapes, we're tackling the question: What keeps you up at night?

The ultimate SDR success guide with Arely Brattin and John Karsant 02/25/2025

The ultimate SDR success guide with Arely Brattin and John Karsant In this episode of Bold Calling, host Adam Sockel is joined by Arely Brattin, SDR Manager at Orum, and John Karsant, Founder & CEO of Level Up Leads, to dive deep into the art and science of SDR management. They discuss the most effective strategies for onboarding, training, measuring success, and retaining top SDR talent—plus the evolving role of AI and the shift toward revenue-focused performance metrics. Whether you're an SDR leader, a sales rep, or a sales enablement professional, this conversation is packed with actionable insights to help you level up your sales development game. Key Topics & Takeaways 🚀 Onboarding & Training SDRs John's Approach: SDRs at Level Up Leads start on internal calls before reaching out to clients, ensuring they ramp up in a controlled environment. Arely’s Method: Identifying learning styles is key—whether reps prefer shadowing, classroom-style learning, or hands-on coaching. Pairing new SDRs with top performers helps them build confidence quickly. Hot Take: "Ripping off the band-aid" is crucial—getting reps on the phone fast leads to faster improvement. 📊 Measuring SDR Performance Activity vs. Revenue Metrics: Historically, SDR success was measured by volume (calls, meetings booked), but the industry is shifting toward revenue-driven results. Quality over quantity—fewer dials, but better targeted outreach. No-show rates and objection-handling improvements are now key performance indicators. Arely’s Perspective: "You can book all the meetings you want, but if they don’t show up or convert, you’re not doing your job." 🎯 Retaining SDR Talent John’s Strategy: Reduce friction for reps—handle list building and client conversations so SDRs can focus on dialing and selling. Arely’s Strategy: Recognition and validation go a long way—"The SDR role can be thankless, so just saying ‘I appreciate you’ matters." Compensation matters—competitive pay and incentives keep reps motivated. Create a collaborative yet competitive culture where reps push each other to improve. 🤖 The Role of AI in Sales Development How AI is Used: AI tools assist with call analysis, coaching, and script refinement. AI-powered chat tools (like ChatGPT) can help reps generate email templates and objection-handling ideas. Human Touch Still Wins: AI helps with efficiency, but real conversations convert at a much higher rate than email or automation. "If I know it's AI emailing me, I can ignore it. If a person calls me, I feel bad not answering." 📈 Moving Upmarket: Selling to Enterprise Groundswell Approach: Instead of cold calling a VP of Sales right away, SDRs should start lower in the org (fellow SDRs, team leads) and work their way up. Coordinating with AEs to multi-thread an account increases success rates. John’s Reality Check: "If you’re trying to cold call the C-suite at Bank of America, you’re wasting your time." 🔮 The Evolution of the SDR Role John: The decline of email as an effective channel has led to a resurgence in cold calling as a primary outreach method. Arely: Social selling (via LinkedIn and other platforms) is on the rise, but phones remain the best channel for high-converting conversations. Biggest Shift: Buyers expect a more personalized experience, so SDRs need to do their homework and build genuine relationships. 🔗 Resources & Links Connect with Arely Brattin: Connect with John Karsant: Learn more about Level Up Leads: Explore Orum's SDR Enablement Tools: /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/35287675

Calling with context with Ernest Owusu and Daisy Chung 02/11/2025

Calling with context with Ernest Owusu and Daisy Chung In this episode of Bold Calling, host Adam Sockel is joined by two industry heavyweights—Daisy Chung from Orum and Ernest Owusu from 6sense—to break down why context matters in cold calling. They share insights on using intent data, personalization, and AI-driven automation to drive better conversations and higher conversion rates. 🚀 Key takeaway: Buyers today expect more thoughtful, informed outreach, and sellers who call with context are the ones winning meetings. What You'll Learn in This Episode: ✅ Does context actually matter in cold calls? Ernest and Daisy debate the balance between preparation and execution. ✅ The difference between intent data and personalization—and how to use both effectively. ✅ How much pre-call research is too much? Finding the sweet spot between readiness and action. ✅ How AI and automation are reshaping sales prospecting—without removing the human touch. ✅ The importance of tonality and timing to build rapport fast. 🔥 Standout Quotes: 🗣 Ernest Owusu on context vs. no context in calls: "Having context allows you to break down barriers, personalize your outreach, and engage prospects differently. But you can still be a phenomenal cold caller without it—it’s all about how you use the time you have." 🗣 Daisy Chung on making context exciting: "It's not just about knowing where someone went to school or where they work. It’s about how you frame that context to make it engaging and relevant." 🗣 Daisy on AI and automation in sales: "AI isn’t replacing reps; it’s removing manual work so sellers can focus on having more meaningful conversations." 🗣 Ernest on building the right call lists: "You don’t need to over-research—just know your persona, their challenges, and what’s happening in their industry. That’s enough context to open a valuable conversation." Resources & Links: 🔗 Connect with our guests: 🔗 Mentioned in this episode: 🎧 Listen & Subscribe! Don’t miss an episode! Subscribe to Bold Calling on: 🎙 | 🎙 | 🎙 | 🎙 Liked this episode? Leave us a review and share it with your sales team! 🚀 /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/35223010

Self-reliant sourcing with Nick Cegelski and Allie Brotherton 01/28/2025

Self-reliant sourcing with Nick Cegelski and Allie Brotherton In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel sits down with Allie Brotherton, Senior Sales Manager at Orum, and Nick Cegelski, co-host of 30 Minutes to President’s Club and co-author of Cold Calling Sucks and That’s Why It Works. Together, they dive into the increasingly critical topic of self-sourcing for account executives. From actionable tips to thoughtful strategies, this episode is a masterclass for any AE looking to take control of their pipeline. What You’ll Learn in This Episode: Why self-sourcing is no longer optional for AEs in today’s sales landscape. The importance of funnel math and setting realistic self-sourcing goals. The power of cold calling and how it complements email and LinkedIn outreach. How to use time blocking to supercharge your prospecting productivity. Practical advice on building referral pipelines that actually work. The value of preparing personalized small talk to build rapport with prospects. Tips for maintaining strong professional relationships over time. Key Quotes: Nick Cegelski: “Your success in sales is determined by the number of uncomfortable conversations you're willing to have.” Allie Brotherton: “Get focused on finding the right types of accounts. Don't cast a wide net—target the ones with the highest likelihood to close.” Nick Cegelski: “Referrals are an amazing way to generate new business if you treat them like another outbound channel.” Allie Brotherton: “The best sellers have a plan for everything. They don’t wing it; they prepare and stay diligent.” Actionable Takeaways: Cold Calling Best Practices: Treat it like a workout: Focus on one intense block rather than spreading calls throughout the day. Use prime morning hours for calls and reserve afternoons for prospect list building. Stay consistent, even on challenging days—discipline is key. Referral Strategies: Be intentional: Prepare a tailored reason and draft a ghostwritten message for your champions to send. Regularly revisit closed-won opportunities and your champions’ networks for warm leads. Treat referrals as a recurring prospecting channel with time blocked for this specific task. Time Management for AEs: Block time for both preparation and execution, keeping them separate. Swallow the frog: Start your day with the task you like least to free up mental space for other priorities. Be flexible: If the day gets disrupted, make up for lost prospecting time. Resources Mentioned: by Nick Cegelski and Armand Farrokh This episode is a treasure trove of advice for AEs navigating self-sourcing. Whether you're building lists, crafting cold calls, or asking for referrals, success comes down to preparation, consistency, and embracing discomfort. Tune in now to level up your sales game! /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/35048810

Nurturing beyond the sequence 01/14/2025

Nurturing beyond the sequence Welcome to the latest episode of Bold Calling, Orum's award-winning podcast. Today, we're explore modern demand generation and the art of nurturing leads effectively with two demand generation leaders: Sarah Reece, Head of DemandGen at Orum, and Chris Miller, Head of DemandGen at Warmly. Key Topics Covered: 1. Redefining Nurturing Sarah’s hot take: “Nurturing used to mean dumping low-quality leads into email workflows. Today, it’s about resonating with your ICP and partnering with sales.” Chris’s perspective: “Nurturing is a continuation of the brand experience. It’s about trust-building at every stage.” 2. Why Nurturing Matters Marketing’s role doesn’t end at MQL—it’s about maintaining influence throughout the buyer’s journey. The importance of “above the funnel” nurturing: 93-95% of your audience isn’t in-market at any given time. 3. Effective Nurturing Channels Sarah: “Your brand channels—podcasts, blogs, webinars—are the most effective tools for creating trust.” Chris: “Nurturing is context-dependent. Tailor your approach to the prospect’s journey.” 4. Aligning Sales and Marketing The importance of collaboration: “Focus on the needs of the prospect, not departmental goals,” says Chris. Sarah’s approach: Let sales take the lead in nurture touchpoints to make engagement more personal. 5. Quick Wins for Better Nurturing Simplify: “Do less,” advises Chris. Overcomplicated workflows often lead to poor outcomes. Personalize: Sarah suggests shifting from automated marketing emails to personalized sales outreach. Use the phone: Real conversations build trust and gather valuable insights. Top Quotes: “Good nurturing is just good marketing. Marketing’s job isn’t done at MQL or awareness.” – Chris Miller “Once we know who a prospect is, we should treat them like we know them.” – Sarah Reece “93-95% of your audience isn’t in-market. Surround them with messaging for when their moment of need arises.” – Sarah Reece Resources Mentioned: – A platform for full-funnel orchestration. – The leading sales dialer for efficient and effective outbound calling. Connect with the Guests: Enjoyed this episode? Share it with your network and subscribe to Bold Calling for more insights into sales, marketing, and demand generation. /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/34852305

It's time to Hop(p) on the damn phone! 12/03/2024

It's time to Hop(p) on the damn phone! On this week's episode of the award winning Bold Calling podcast, host Adam Sockel sits down with Kevin Hopp, founder of Hopp Consulting Group and CEO of Calling Culture, to discuss why cold calling remains a powerful tool in a world obsessed with automation and AI. Kevin shares his candid insights on the current state of sales development, debunking the myth that cold calling is a thing of the past. They delve into the nuances of outbound strategies, the role of AI in sales, and why businesses need to embrace a calling-first mindset for real human connection. Key Takeaways Cold Calling Renaissance: Despite AI and automation trends, Kevin argues that cold calling remains irreplaceable for genuine, high-value conversations. Smaller Budgets, Smarter Strategies: As outbound budgets shrink, teams are optimizing their approach by focusing on impactful cold calling over bulk outreach methods. Efficient Pre-call Research: Kevin believes most reps over-prepare, wasting hours on unnecessary details. The key? Know the core business problem and solution. Data-Driven Insights: Capturing and leveraging call outcomes—beyond just booked meetings—is essential for informing CRM strategies and account-based marketing. Future of Sales Development: While AI tools may evolve, they’re not replacing the human element anytime soon. Sales is still about people selling to people. Memorable Quotes “Cold calling ain’t dead. The more confusing outbound gets, the more valuable a straightforward phone call becomes.” — Kevin Hopp “Reps need way less research than they think. Focus on the business problem and solution—it’s all that matters.” “The tools are getting smarter, but the human connection of a live conversation on the phone can’t be replaced.” Why Listen? If you're navigating the ever-changing landscape of sales development or wondering how AI will shape outbound, this episode is packed with actionable advice. Kevin Hopp’s expertise is a must-hear for SDRs, managers, and sales leaders who want to embrace smarter, human-centered strategies. Resources Mentioned Kevin’s TikTok-style sales tips on Connect with Us Host: Guest: Presented by , the #1 dialer for sales teams in 2025! Love the episode? Share it with your team and leave us a review! Want to dive deeper into sales development insights? Subscribe to Bold Calling for more conversations that matter. /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/34271360

Michael Maximoff on the evolution of the SDR 11/13/2024

Michael Maximoff on the evolution of the SDR In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam sits down with Michael Maximoff, founder of Belkins, to explore the evolving world of sales development and how SDR roles are shifting amidst advancements in AI, automation, and omnichannel strategies. They dive into findings, touching on the increased demand for SDRs, shifts in sales pipeline responsibilities, and the critical alignment of sales and marketing functions. Key Topics Discussed: The Changing SDR Role Michael shares insights on how SDRs are becoming growth specialists who strategically build omnichannel outreach strategies rather than relying solely on single channels. SDR roles are evolving into "GTM growth specialists," responsible for managing multiple channels to nurture leads more effectively. Omnichannel Outreach vs. Multichannel Marketing Michael distinguishes between true omnichannel strategies and basic multichannel outreach, emphasizing the importance of seamless, personalized customer journeys that guide prospects from awareness to conversion. The Power of the Phone in SDR Outreach According to Orum's report, 85% of sales leaders view phone calls as essential for building pipeline, with 70% saying over half of their pipeline results from calls. Michael adds that phone outreach works best when it’s the third or fourth touchpoint after establishing prior contact through other channels. Balancing AI and Human-Centric Sales Strategies Despite the rise of AI, Michael argues that human-led sales strategies are more impactful, particularly for creating long-term customer relationships. He predicts a growing divide between companies that use AI for efficiency and those prioritizing genuine customer connections. Optimizing SDR Teams and Specialization Michael explains Belkins’ team structure, which includes lead researchers and SDRs working in tandem to ensure high-quality outreach. By specializing roles, Belkins maximizes efficiency and effectiveness, allowing SDRs to focus on engaging leads without being bogged down by list-building. The Future of Sales Development Michael forecasts that SDRs will increasingly contribute to strategy development alongside traditional outreach. The demand for nuanced, high-impact touchpoints will only increase as companies navigate growing volumes of outreach driven by automation. Key Quotes: On Omnichannel Outreach: “Omnichannel isn’t just using multiple channels; it’s an integrated, step-by-step approach where each touch builds on the previous engagement, creating a seamless customer experience.” On the Role of the Phone: "The phone is incredibly effective, but it shouldn’t be the first touchpoint. Using it as a third or fifth touchpoint after nurturing leads through other channels makes conversion rates three to five times higher." On the Importance of Human Sales: “With AI, we’re seeing a rise in volume over quality. Brands that build real relationships with prospects and foster strong teams will ultimately stand out in a market flooded with automated outreach.” Connect with Michael Maximoff: LinkedIn: Podcast: Belkins Podcast on YouTube Email: Tune in to this episode for a comprehensive discussion on the modern SDR landscape and how sales teams can leverage both technology and human touch to create impactful outreach in today’s market. /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/33918302

Troy Barter wants you to start opening doors to more closed-won 10/29/2024

Troy Barter wants you to start opening doors to more closed-won In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel sits down with Troy Barter, Head of Revenue at Rocket Shipping, to dive into the nitty-gritty of sales development. Troy brings his extensive sales experience, from door-to-door hustle to tech sales strategy, to offer hard-hitting insights on the evolution of the SDR role, the power of resilience, and the real impact of sales development. Key Highlights: The Value of Perspective in Sales Development: Troy draws a powerful comparison between door-to-door sales and tech sales, emphasizing the “grit advantage” that field experience brings to SDRs. “When you’ve faced a hard ‘no’ in person, a cold call feels like nothing in comparison,” he says. Changing SDR-AE Dynamics: Troy sheds light on how SDRs today are siloed from AEs, creating inefficiencies and reducing the perceived value of the SDR role. He argues, “SDRs should be incentivized on closed revenue, not just meetings scheduled. If SDRs aren’t setting up closeable pipeline, the model is broken.” Leveraging Tech Without Replacing the Human Element: Troy warns SDRs not to rely too heavily on automation, as it threatens their job security. “If you use tools to replace what makes you unique as a salesperson, human SDRs will no longer exist.” Career Pathing and SDR Motivation: Troy believes in promoting from within but stresses performance as the primary driver. For SDRs looking to move up, he advises a proactive approach: “Crush it at your current role, then ask to close smaller deals once you hit target—this shows you’re ready for AE responsibilities.” Insightful Quotes from Troy Barter: “Door-to-door sales taught me grit in a way tech never could. When you’ve walked a block in August Florida heat, SDR calls are nothing.” “You don’t bring Tom Brady in to block—you bring him in to win. AEs should close, not prospect; SDRs should build closeable pipeline, not just book meetings.” “SDRs, don’t let automation do your whole job. Those tools are here to help, but if they replace your role, you’ll be out of a job before you know it.” “If your SDR pipeline isn’t closing, your model is broken. Either the product doesn’t work, or the process is flawed—fix it.” “The tech hasn’t changed; it’s the mindset. The SDRs with the willingness to put in real work are standing out more than ever.” Episode Takeaways: Resilience is key in sales development: SDRs with door-to-door or other tough sales backgrounds have a built-in advantage. Real alignment between SDRs and AEs drives pipeline success. The current model, which separates SDR and AE goals, is hurting the industry. Career growth in sales development depends on demonstrating consistent success in pipeline generation, not just meeting quotas. Tools are just that—tools: The real value of SDRs lies in their ability to connect and problem-solve in ways automation cannot replace. /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/33669047

Building Relationships and Discipline with Joe Fontana 10/15/2024

Building Relationships and Discipline with Joe Fontana In this episode of Bold Calling, presented by Orum, Adam Sockel sits down with Joe Fontana, the North American Sales Director for BuyerForesight, for a dynamic discussion on building high-performing sales teams, the importance of sales and marketing alignment, and how discipline plays a key role in sales success. With decades of experience in both leading and consulting for sales teams across a variety of industries, Joe brings a wealth of insights into the often-overlooked fundamentals of sales—human connection and discipline. Key Takeaways from the Episode: The Power of Simplicity in Sales and Marketing Alignment One of Joe's biggest lessons throughout his career is the necessity of simple, clear communication between sales and marketing teams. He stresses, “Talk to me like I’m five until I tell you to stop.” By starting with the basics, Joe believes sales teams can understand the nuances of what marketing is doing and align on a cohesive strategy. According to Joe, salespeople should leave their ego at the door and focus on the common goal: reaching the right customers effectively. Building Relationships Before the Pitch When it comes to prospecting, Joe advocates for an authentic, relationship-first approach. Whether it’s at executive dinners or during one-on-one interactions, Joe emphasizes the importance of earning the right to pitch. He says, “You can’t put a price on human interaction and authenticity because that’s all sales is—just a series of conversations between someone who has a problem and someone who can solve it.” Sales Teams Must Learn Discipline and Structure Joe also highlights the importance of personal discipline, noting how his military background has shaped his structured approach to daily routines. He stresses the need for sellers to not only be well-prepared but also manage their time with intention. “I need to be disciplined and I need to be structured. I’m up every morning before 4:30 AM because I know that keeps me mentally sharp.” Solving for Misalignment in Sales and Marketing One of the most frustrating challenges for Joe is when sales teams don’t take full advantage of the high-quality prospects that marketing delivers. He shares how he often finds marketers frustrated by sales reps who don’t fully understand their ICP or don’t utilize the materials they’re given. His advice? Sales teams need to start seeing marketing as a valuable partner rather than an obstacle. Why You Should Listen: Joe Fontana brings real talk to the table, offering a candid view of what really works in sales development, pipeline building, and team collaboration. With practical advice for both sales leaders and individual contributors, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to learn how to build a sustainable and scalable sales team. Whether you’re struggling with sales and marketing alignment or looking for ways to improve your personal sales discipline, Joe’s insights will leave you with plenty to think about—and implement. Quotes from the Episode: “You have to keep your ego at the door when building a sales org. You may think you know everything, but a day in the trenches will show you otherwise.” – Joe Fontana “Nobody wants to talk about your product. They’re not there for your brand. They’re there because of the challenge that keeps them up at 2 AM. Talk to that.” – Joe Fontana “If you can’t communicate with your colleagues in sales and marketing, how can you be relied upon to communicate with a prospect?” – Joe Fontana Connect with Joe Fontana: LinkedIn: Subscribe & Follow Us: Stay up to date with future episodes of Bold Calling by subscribing on your favorite podcast platform! /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/33465932

Leslie Venetz needs y'all to stop making sales about you! 10/01/2024

Leslie Venetz needs y'all to stop making sales about you! In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel is joined by Leslie Venetz to dive deep into sales development strategies for 2025, backed by insights from Orum’s second annual State of Sales Development report. Leslie, with her years of expertise in sales, shares actionable advice on improving outbound strategies, reducing customer acquisition costs (CAC), and shortening sales cycles. Leslie stresses the importance of an omnichannel approach to outbound sales, explaining how a multi-touch, multi-channel, and multi-media strategy is essential to meeting prospects where they are. The episode also breaks down some of the key findings from the report, including the rising use of social channels and video in sales outreach. Throughout the conversation, Leslie challenges outdated sales norms, such as spending excessive time researching individual prospects, and offers a fresh perspective on AI’s role in the future of sales development. She advocates for AI as a tool to assist, not replace, salespeople, urging organizations to leverage AI for automating low-value tasks while keeping the human touch at the forefront. This episode is a goldmine for sales leaders looking to optimize their teams for the challenges of 2025, from balancing the roles of sales, marketing, and customer success, to creating more personalized and effective outbound strategies. Key Discussion Points: [02:06] The shift toward an omnichannel outbound strategy: Leslie explains the need for a multi-touch, multi-channel approach. [03:16] The myth of "quality vs. quantity" in outbound sales: Leslie challenges the notion that you must choose between personalization and scale. [05:55] Understanding your ICP (Ideal Customer Profile): Why aligning your strategy to your buyer’s behavior is crucial for outbound success. [06:15] How voicemails still play a powerful role in outbound efforts: Leslie outlines how a voicemail strategy can improve overall engagement. [10:03] Looking ahead to 2025: How organizations should rethink their approach to sales and customer retention to reduce churn and grow. [13:20] Collaborating with customer success (CS) for long-term sales success: Leslie discusses how outbound teams can better partner with CS to drive referrals and upsell opportunities. [17:07] Crafting effective sales messaging: Leslie shares why most outbound messages miss the mark and how to fix them. [33:14] AI’s role in sales development: Leslie emphasizes AI as an assistive tool that should help sales reps focus on higher-value tasks. [37:57] Leslie’s top 3 outbound channels: The non-negotiables for any sales development team going forward. Quotes: “To optimize outbound, you need to take a multi-touch, multi-channel, multi-media approach... The more diverse your outreach, the more likely you’ll reach your prospects where they want to be communicated with.” – Leslie Venetz “Most of your messaging sucks because it’s not customer-centric. Audit your copy to remove ‘I’ and ‘we’ language and replace it with customer benefits.” – Leslie Venetz “AI is assistive, not replaceive. Use it to automate low-risk, low-value tasks and free up time for building relationships.” – Leslie Venetz Resources Mentioned: Orum’s Second Annual State of Sales Development Report Sales Led GTM Agency Connect with Leslie Venetz: LinkedIn: Connect with Orum: Website: /episode/index/show/666629b0-3504-4a04-95cc-d33111a14018/id/33283212