Victors in Grad School

Victors in Grad School explores what you can do to find success in your own graduate school journey no matter what you plan to do. Through experts and individual interviews you will be introduced to what it means to find success and tips on achieving success in graduate school.

Mentorship, Mistakes, and Mastery: Succeeding in Graduate School 11/17/2025

Mentorship, Mistakes, and Mastery: Succeeding in Graduate School Are you considering grad school or currently on the graduate education journey? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School” offers a wealth of insightful advice, candid reflections, and actionable tips for students at every stage of their academic careers. Hosted by , Director of Graduate Programs at University of Michigan-Flint, this episode features guest , Assistant Dean of Students at the and a current PhD candidate. Personal Journeys: Decisions and Mentorship The conversation begins with Lucas Langdon sharing his unique path from undergraduate studies to a thriving career in student affairs and eventually to graduate studies. He emphasizes the importance of mentorship and how key advisors helped him realize his passions could turn into a profession. For first-generation students, like Lucas, pursuing graduate studies can be daunting; strong mentors and professional opportunities, such as temporary staff roles after graduation, can be transformational. Choosing the Right Program One theme that resonates throughout the episode is the process of selecting a graduate program. Lucas Langdon recalls nearly rushing into a decision due to deadlines but ultimately taking the time to research top programs, visit campuses, and evaluate the fit. The lesson: don’t let urgency override intention. Prospective students are encouraged to engage deeply with programs, faculty, and campus environments before making their choice. Finding Financial and Professional Support The episode also highlights the value of graduate assistantships. Both Langdon and Dr. Christopher Lewis discuss how assistantships—whether in student affairs or other fields—provide not only crucial financial support but also practical experience relevant to students’ future careers. Listeners are advised to inquire early about assistantship opportunities, scholarships, and tuition benefits—sometimes available through employers. Balancing Life and Studies Graduate school often means balancing academic, professional, and personal responsibilities. Lucas Langdon provides honest advice about managing these demands, sharing his own experiences juggling full-time work and doctoral studies. He underscores the necessity of creating boundaries, finding peer support, and maintaining perseverance—even when motivation wavers. Building Networks and Planning Ahead Finally, listeners learn that faculty and cohort peers become an invaluable professional network. Lucas Langdon advises students to nurture these relationships and focus papers and projects on topics of personal passion, laying the groundwork for future research. Ready for more inspiring and practical grad school insights? Tune into “Victors in Grad School” for expert advice and personal stories that can help you confidently chart your own path to graduate school success. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and. experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love being able to sit down, talk to you, to work with you as you're going through this journey that you're going on, this graduate school journey. And no matter where you are in this journey, there are things that you can do right now, right now, while you're sitting there listening, that can help you to be better prepared and better successful in this graduate school journey that you're on. You could just be starting to look and thinking about graduate school. You might have applied, you might have gotten accepted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: Maybe you're in graduate school. There are things, no matter where you are in this continuum, that you can learn from others that have gone before you that will help you to be successful in this, this journey. And that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you to help you to learn, to grow, and to be able to get some new tools for your toolbox to help you find success sooner. Today we got another great guest, Lucas Langdon, who's with us. And Lucas is the assistant Dean of students at the University of Michigan, Flint. And Lucas has his own journey of going to graduate school, and he's currently a graduate student right now. So we're gonna be talking to him about this experience and this journey that he went on himself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: And I'm really excited to have him here. Lucas, thanks so much. Lucas Langdon [00:01:47]: Thanks for having me, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:50]: You know, I'm really excited to have you here today. And I know, I love starting these conversations, really making you go back in time, because I know that you did your undergraduate work at Eastern Michigan University. You did your Bachelor of Science in English Liter and Language and also Communication and Theater Arts. And then there was some point in time where you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on. And what I would love for you to do is to take me back in time. Take me back to that moment, that point in time where you said to yourself, I'm not done. I want to continue, and I want to move forward and get that graduate degree. Lucas Langdon [00:02:32]: So, as you know, my career has been in student affairs, and that started as a student who was very involved. I did something that would be unthinkable today. I delayed my undergraduate graduation by a year because I was involved in so many sort of outside of the classroom experiences that I wasn't ready to give up on. And so I kind of deferred that and during that year of deferment, really struggled with what am I going to do with my life? One of my mentors sort of made the obvious connection for me. You can continue to do the kinds of things that you're really passionate about here as a professional. And so, as luck would have it, there was a temporary staff opening at Eastern about the time I was graduating. And so I was able to jump into a staff role for that first year while I was figuring out what grad school looks like and had the ability to have those mentors who were supervising me there walk me through because I was a first gen student. So the idea of college was challenging, but the idea of graduate school was completely unheard of in my family. Lucas Langdon [00:03:32]: So having those mentors kind of talk me through, what does a grad school search look like? What are the important things to think about and sort of save me from a couple of maybe hate hasty decisions I could have made there. And then as that first temporary position was coming to an end, another one opened up, and that one sort of filled my time until I started graduate school the next fall at Florida State University. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:57]: So, as you just said, you decided to attend Florida State University, and it sounds like you did your due diligence in trying to look at different options and look at different schools and try to decide for yourself what was the best fit for you. Talk to me about that process, what you did to go through that. You mentioned avoiding some mistakes. So maybe talk about some of those possible mistakes you may have made and what made you finally ultimately choose that Florida State was the best. Lucas Langdon [00:04:27]: So what I was really alluding to with the mistakes is I almost rushed my search. And what I mean by that is I decided a little late in the cycle of things at that time with application deadlines, that I was going to go on this graduate school journey, as you put it. And almost every school's deadline had passed. All of the ones that my mentors were recommending as good student affairs graduate programs had passed, with the exception of one, which I won't name. But I didn't end up going there. I'm sure they're fine, but I had hastily decided, oh, I'll just apply to this, the only one I can apply to, having never been to campus to see it or really know anything about it. And So I sort of wisened up and decided, okay, no, I'm going to wait. This employment opportunity with the 10 position luckily came up. Lucas Langdon [00:05:07]: That afforded me the ability to do that, to wait a little bit longer and do a graduate school. The search the right way and what the right way looked like for me in my field of higher education, student affairs, was really doing some research into what are the top programs in my field, setting up some visits with them and at the time was willing to travel across the country and start over somewhere else for a little, for two years for graduate school. And so I convinced one of my buddies to do a road trip with me and I did back to back visits at Florida State University of Florida, University of South Carolina. And I think there might have been one more in there and at the time had pretty, pretty high rankings in my graduate program that I was interested in. So I went. I probably made some naive cosmetic assumptions about the schools that now having been in the field for a long time, I maybe wouldn't care so much about. But what it came down to is how I felt when I was there. And the reason that Florida State sort of won that, not that it was a competition, but won the competition for me, what a prize was that when I got there, they made sure that there were folks from the program to talk to me. Lucas Langdon [00:06:10]: They showed me around. It already felt like they were treating me like a human being and not a number. They did have a really good reputation at the time. I think they, they might have been the number one or number two student affairs program in the country at that time. And they were extremely welcoming of me. Now what? The other piece I didn't know that I wish I had was about what graduate assistantships were all about. And this might be buried in your question somewhere, but so I didn't initially know that that was a thing you have to plan for and apply for in advance and all that. So when I went to, I forget if it was a visit day or if it was like an orientation. Lucas Langdon [00:06:42]: There just happened to be a vacancy in one. And so somebody had got a different role and moved on or something. And I, I got the assistantship and that paid for my room and board, my tuition, working for housing, not in a live in position the first year, but that was huge financially for me to be able to take a graduate assistantship which I knew nothing about, but to take this job that they told me would pay for all of this stuff and give me practical experience while I was doing the academic side of the program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:12]: And one thing I'll. I'll mention to you that that are listening about graduate assistantships is that not every program requires an assist assistantship. Sometimes they do. So like the program that Lucas is talking about. His program required that students had assistantships, and that's a part of the program. But there are other programs that that's not the case. There may be ones that are available that you can apply for, but you need to do your research into that. Some assistantships can be full time, some assistantships can be part time, and the benefits can vary vastly based on campus and what you're doing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:53]: So you do have to do that research to be able to look into that, to make sure you understand what it is, what you have to do to apply and what you have to do to be considered. But don't automatically assume that an assistantship is going to be waiting for you, because at the campus that you choose to go to, there may not be assistantships, but there may be scholarships or other opportunities too. So you think you choose to. Lucas Langdon [00:08:13]: And those are the right questions to ask Chris, that I didn't know to ask, which is, are they the same timeline for application for both of them? Are they different timelines is like you said, is it? Everybody gets one if you get into the program. And as the market for graduate students in student affairs has shifted, some of those requirements have shifted. So at Florida State at the time, you weren't going to be probably a graduate assistant in a student affairs office if you weren't in the program for student affairs. But I know a lot of schools now, they need graduate students, and so they're a little less picky about which field you're studying while you're there. If you have the time to commit to the work of the assistantship, you might still be able to pull that off even if you're not going into higher education, which opens up a lot more opportunities for folks who might otherwise basically be looking at is there a teaching assistant job or a research assistant job? And that's really all that you used to be able to pick from. But now there's all kinds of offices. As the field of higher education manages financial difficulties for lots of reasons, the number of professional staff going down in some cases means they might be more willing to take on more graduate assistants do the work. So I would encourage anyone, if your life will fit a graduate assistantship role financially and experientially. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:26]: It's really a great opportunity now as any student moves into a graduate program. Actually, no, I want to ask another question first. Now, I also mentioned you're a current graduate student now, and I know that after a number of years of working, you decided to continue your education and you decided to work work on a PhD and you're working on that right now. So same question. Talk to me about that point in time. What made you decide that you wanted to take that step at that point in your career to go back to school after working for a While on a PhD and you, you ended up choosing to attend Eastern Michigan University? Same question. Why did you decide to attend Eastern University? Lucas Langdon [00:10:08]: My PhD question has a lot to do with sort of the ceiling for advancement in my career. And so I've been in this program now for over 10 years. Like I'm going to have to file an extension to be able to graduate for a couple of reasons that sort of, you know, Covid and some things sort of delayed that. But I had mentors telling me, you got to get the PhD. You're working at a university that will pay for. I was working at Eastern as at the time, as a director of campus Life. So Eastern would pay the tuition part of the bill for that, which amounted to, I don't know, 20, $25,000 worth of an education that I didn't have to pay for doesn't mean it was free. I had to pay all kinds of fees that I'm not working there. Lucas Langdon [00:10:45]: I obviously pay for the credits, but it was a huge chunk of financial burden that I didn't have because I worked there. So if you can get a job at the place where you want to study, that's often a tuition benefit comes along with that. So at the time, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do next, but I knew it would be a step up, hopefully in my career. And I was looking at vice presidents, student affairs jobs, or sociovi presidents, or in this case, assistant in a student's jobs. And I knew that to be competitive in the field, I was going to need to have that credential under my belt to be operating at a higher level of leadership at a higher education institution. The credential is important, especially on the academic side, to be able to be considered a colleague by academic peers, being able to say, yes, I've gone through the same academic, can we call it academic hazing that you've gone through. I've earned this. I know my stuff. Lucas Langdon [00:11:32]: So all of those things, would I do it again? I don't know. It depends on what day you ask me and what part of the stress of the PhD program I'm in. But I had all of those mentors and sort of the career path telling me, you probably need to do this, so you might as well start now. And I'll also add that when I worked for five years at an institution in Kentucky, that they didn't have a PhD program, but they had an MBA program that I could have done for free twice in the time that I was there. I didn't think I was going to be there that long, but I liked it. And I ended up staying. And I regretted not taking advantage of that benefit of education. Could have just had that extra credential and that knowledge. Lucas Langdon [00:12:06]: And so when I got to Eastern, they had the PhD program. And I thought, I can't make the same mistake twice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:12]: So true. And a lot of times when individuals are working at any type of company, one of the things that sometimes students don't look into is going to that HR office and saying, do you have an education benefit? It's always a great place to go and ask. It doesn't hurt to go in and just ask the question. They could say no, they could say yes. But always look at the fine print. Make sure you know what you're signing and make sure you know what the hooks are. Because sometimes there are hooks to the financial aspects to that as well. But it's always a possible financial possibility for you as a student. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:50]: As you're thinking about graduate education now, Lucas, as you transitioned into your master's degree, into your doctorate degree, there are transitions that you go through. Now you went from undergrad into a graduate program, and there's a transition there because the way you're taught as an undergraduate student is different than the way you're taught in the expectations that faculty have of you as a master's student. But then going from work into a PhD student, again, different way, different way of being challenged, different way of looking at things. So think to those transitions. You were able to find success in your master's degree, you've been able to be successful in your PhD degree. And as you found success in graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into the program, and what have you had to do to maintain that success throughout the steps, throughout the program? Lucas Langdon [00:13:56]: So start by saying, I don't think I transitioned particularly effectively or intentionally into a master's program, because again, I had no idea. To me, this just felt like, like the next year of college. But what I came to learn very quickly is that even more than undergraduate, the things that were going to be Important to my success were the peer network in my classes and the faculty relationships, which are important in undergrad, but even more so in the master's work. So that transition was initially maybe a little rocky. Again, I sort of picked up and moved to a different part of the country. So I knew no one there, knew nothing about this thing I had decided to jump into. But luckily, because I had that assistantship role on campus, that put me into a network of other graduates, graduate assistants who would be taking classes with me. And we're also having parallel sort of job experiences that, that could sort of bond us together as well. Lucas Langdon [00:14:47]: And if you know anything about working in housing, you have a lot of weird things that happen when you're running residence halls. So could have got those things to bond over. And so creating that social network there, which I was a little slow to develop because I just didn't know how important it was going to be, that became monumentally important. And then also the people who are in your program with you and your faculty become your initial network professionally. So I always tell students, even the... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38991415

Communicate with Confidence: Tips for Graduate Student Success 11/10/2025

Communicate with Confidence: Tips for Graduate Student Success Effective communication isn’t just a buzzword; it’s a core skill for success in graduate school and in life. In the latest Victors in Grad School episode, "Communicating Your Needs with Confidence," and tackle a challenge every grad student encounters: advocating for yourself and expressing what you truly need to thrive. Reilly Chabie, a regular contributor, dives deep into why communication matters—not only academically but across every dimension of wellness. She introduces listeners to the "balancing act" every student faces, emphasizing the Eight Dimensions of Wellness (emotional, environmental, physical, etc.) and how imbalances can directly impact our ability to communicate effectively. Stress, a common companion for grad students, gets special attention. Reilly details how physical, emotional, and cognitive symptoms of stress can interfere with clear communication—reminding us that a little stress is normal, but chronic stress can sow confusion and erode confidence. Knowing yourself and recognizing when stress is impacting your communication is the first step toward improvement. The podcast unpacks common barriers to effective communication. From emotional dysregulation and lack of trust, to power dynamics, cultural differences, imposter syndrome, and assumptions, Reilly paints a honest picture of challenges students face daily. She references “The Four Horsemen” communication pitfalls (criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling), illustrating why learning new healthy habits is vital. Listeners are guided through the spectrum of communication styles—passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive, and assertive. The goal? To build assertive communication skills that foster respectful dialogue and collaborative problem-solving. Reilly provides actionable tips: plan ahead, create the right environment for conversations, use “I” statements, pay attention to nonverbal cues, and actively listen—not just talk. Perhaps most compelling is the discussion around boundaries. Setting and communicating personal limits is crucial to self-advocacy and maintaining healthy relationships in grad school. If you’re navigating group projects, research collaboration, or simply balancing multiple life roles, this episode is packed with insights and practical advice. Whether you’re a new student or a seasoned grad, you’ll find wisdom that applies beyond the classroom. Ready to advocate for yourself and build confidence in your communication? Listen to this episode and start your journey toward more effective, fulfilling conversations—both in and outside grad school. Looking for actionable communication resources? Don’t miss this episode—you’ll be glad you did! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:03]: We have conversations with students, alumni and. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: Experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Hello and welcome. Thanks so much for being here today. I'm Dr. Lewis, the director of graduate programs here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited that you're here today because today we're going to be talking about a really important topic. We're going to be talking about about the importance of communicating and advocating for yourself. Because as a graduate student, you definitely have to be able to advocate for yourself and you gotta be able to talk to people and tell people what you need to be able to be successful in this graduate school journey that you're on. And today we got a great guest with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]: Riley Chaby is with us again. And I'm really excited to have Riley here today to talk about this really important topic with you. So I'm going to turn it over to her. Riley, thanks so much for being here today. Reilly Chabie [00:01:02]: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction, Dr. Lewis. I appreciate it. And as Dr. Lewis mentioned, communicating your needs is a crucial part of not only being a graduate student, but also just kind of existing in the world. So I hope today's presentation is helpful in all contexts of your life. To kind of get started, we'll go over a brief overview as to what you can expect. Reilly Chabie [00:01:26]: We're going to talk a little bit about something I like to call the Balancing act of just being a Graduate Student. That'll come up here shortly. I'm going to talk about why does communication matter? Just kind of brief things that are related to you as a graduate student, but also just why communication matters in the grand scheme of life. We're going to talk about some barriers that we might experience for effective communication. And then we're going to learn how to communicate with confidence, some tips, tricks, things to kind of consider in order to navigate these challenges. All right. It would not be a CAPS presentation if we didn't talk a little bit about the eight dimensions of wellness. If you've ever seen any of my presentations before, you have definitely seen me talk about these dimensions. Reilly Chabie [00:02:18]: And interestingly enough, most of U of M Flint's Division of Student affairs programming focuses and aims to provide supports that relate to these eight dimensions of wellness, which interest. Interestingly enough, my conversation today does relate to the eight dimensions of wellness. So very briefly, the eight dimensions of wellness essentially creates a visual representation of all of the aspects that make us up as a person. So we all have. And kind of looking at the wheel on my screen Here we all have emotional connections, we have environmental connections, physical connections, so on and so forth. And all of these areas require our attention at any given point during our day to day functioning. That kind of leads into this balancing act that while you're functioning as a graduate student, you are absolutely trying to balance all of these dimensions in a way that makes you kind of feel fulfilled, makes you feel like you're achieving the things that you want to achieve, and ultimately you utilize these to kind of guide your everyday decisions. Now, a big part of this is that if any of these dimensions are feeling a little out of whack or we feel like we're not engaging in them as much as we would like to, that does disrupt our general functioning, which can very easily lead to a lot of different frustrations and truthfully plays a large role into why we struggle with communicating the things that we need. Reilly Chabie [00:03:59]: Right. That I might not know that I'm physically hurting until I really think about it. It. And if I don't take care of that physical nature, I might be more irritable or you know, struggling in a particular area and having a hard time communicating that. So it's helpful to kind of put this into context with our communication patterns and this knowledge will kind of help us. What's the right word? It's going to help us identify what needs we actually have and really play into the types of communications that we need to provide. So kind of keep that in mind as we move forward here. I also want to touch a little bit on stress symptoms specifically, because if we're considering how the eight dimensions of wellness allow us to function, and when one of them isn't being focused on as much or is struggling in some context, we ultimately will experience some level of stre. Reilly Chabie [00:05:03]: And the symptoms and kind of definitions on your screen here also help us to see when our communication is not being effective. Right. That if we're not communicating as deeply or as importantly as we'd like to be, we might experience chronic stress. So a brief definition of stress. This is our physical, emotional and cognitive reactions to certain demands, threats, or just changes in our daily routines. And I bet you anything as a graduate student, you have a lot of changes going on on your day to day experience. Whether you're in classes, going to work, studying, maybe taking care of kiddos, just trying to navigate all of these different roles, you absolutely are going to have differences and changes in your routine when these things happen, though, we might experience some level of stress. I think it's important to note that general levels of Stress or are actually pretty okay. Reilly Chabie [00:06:05]: Stress can be a really big motivating factor in how we navigate the world and ultimately leads to kind of doing our best work. Sometimes that, you know, for example, if I was stressed about giving this presentation, I might work really hard to provide you the best material. Right. And make sure that I'm providing things that would be helpful for this. But the issue becomes when we experience these stress system, excuse me, symptoms intensely and chronically. So it's not just a here and there experience, but more so it's every day or every other day, or it's so intense that we feel like we can't function in a way that helps us navigate the world. So some of the things that you want to look out for are your physical symptoms. So those could be sleeping problems, muscle aches, headaches, frequent colds. Reilly Chabie [00:07:02]: Our immune system is affected by our stress levels or increased heart rate. Emotionally, you might notice some anxiety, depression, loneliness, low self esteem. And then cognitively or kind of in our mind, we might experience memory concerns, worrying about things constantly, difficulties concentrating, and possibly poor judgment and impulse control. This one in particular will relate to our communication patterns in just a second. So just kind of keep that in mind as we move forward here. So with some of those stressors in mind, I think it's helpful to kind of consider how communication really plays into our experience and why it's important that we're experiencing these things. So communication is a fundamental component of relationship building. I mean, it's kind of the center of our universe, right? We have to communicate in order to navigate these things. Reilly Chabie [00:08:07]: Having effective communication or working on your communication will reduce your overall stress, which relates to our previous slide, talking through some of those stressful things. Having effective communication will absolutely help your groups, people that you're communicating with, or just general organizations work more cohesively and lead to better productivity, which absolutely plays a role in your life as a graduate student. If you're doing group projects, doing research, working in a lab, whatever it might be, it also helps to build your confidence and it helps you advocate and it ultimately helps you build trust with the people that you're working with or engaging with in a way that really makes life feel more fulfilling. You know, the more that you practice your communication skills and the more you work toward identifying the things that you need to communicate, the easier it is, no matter what setting you're in. And then lastly, it does reduce levels of conflict, and I'm talking about conflict in all of the different areas of your life, whether that's in romantic Relationships, friendships, co worker relationships, anything like that. It prevents misunderstandings due to lack of clarity or miscommunications in some way. So if we're effectively communicating, we're absolutely moving in the right direction. Keep these things in mind as we navigate the skills that we're going to talk about later, because those skills are what we practice so that we can gain these effective communication skills. Reilly Chabie [00:09:45]: Let's shift a little bit into communication barriers. Obviously, communication is not just a simple thing that we do every single day. In some ways it is. For example, I'm communicating with you right now, and this is relatively simple, but it's not always gonna look that way. And I think it's helpful to go through some of the barriers or things to kind of consider that might be affecting the way that we navigate these conversations. So I want you to take a moment and I'll briefly pause for you to think about this. I want you to think about what some of your barriers are to effective communication, because there's lots of them. There's no perfect list, but take a second and just kind of reflect on what barriers you foresee in your day to day. Reilly Chabie [00:10:40]: Now, as you think about those things, I'm going to list off a few and talk through some of my thought process around struggles with communication. One big area of communication barriers is our emotional dysregulation. So take a second and think of a time when you were feeling really overwhelmed. Maybe you were experiencing stress, maybe something was really confusing to you and you started to feel really irritated. And maybe you were asking yourself, why am I even bothered by this? What's going on in my life where I'm feeling this frustrated? Right? Those things are starting to come up in your mind. This might lead to heightened emotional states. Maybe we're feeling extra angry or extra sad, or really struggling to kind of navigate this area of our life. And that type of emotional dysregulation absolutely makes it difficult to be clear, concise, and communicate effectively. Reilly Chabie [00:11:42]: Sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment that we really don't mean, or we end up crying during a conversation and feel like we can't get a word out, or our anger is so hard that we prevent other people from adding to the conversation. All of these different things relate to emotions, dysregulation, and we want to kind of keep that in mind as we navigate these challenges. We're also going to want to consider our locations or spaces. There are definitely some places that are not conducive to a good conversation. For example, I'm not going to have a conversation about how my friend upset me the other day at a really loud concert. That doesn't really make any sense. So we're going to want to consider some of the best places to have these conversations and consider how that plays into the context of the conversation. Trust or distrust absolutely plays a role here. Reilly Chabie [00:12:41]: That if you trust somebody, you're probably going to be more likely to be vulnerable and talk about things that are bothering you or advocate for your needs. If you're not so trusting or you're struggling to see how a person can be trustworthy, we might be more restricted in terms of what we want to talk about, which might lead to miscommunication, it might lead to resentment. A lot of detriments happen when we don't trust the people that we're talking to. So keep that in mind too. That effective communication works really well with people we trust. So that means we need to build trust by practicing communication skills. It's kind of a reciprocal relationship. We also want to consider some power dynamics here. Reilly Chabie [00:13:27]: As a graduate student, you might be working with a boss or a professor or other people that maybe kind of are above you in terms of your hierarchy at your work or in school. And then you might also have your own employees or other people that you're maybe supervising, et cetera. We want to make sure that based on these power dynamics, we're effectively communicating without increasing that awareness of the power differential. That, yes, there's a reason that we have that power differential, but that can make things more or less uncomfortable. When trying to communicate something. It might be difficult to communicate to a professor about something, or it might be really easy to talk to a supervisee about something. So trying to navigate it based off of that, we also might want to consider cultural differences. Obviously, the way that I communicate is going to be much different than somebody in a different cultural background, maybe somebody who speaks a different language than I do. Reilly Chabie [00:14:31]: We really want to have that be part of our lens when we're communicating. We don't want to be disruptive or assume that people are going to communicate the same way with us, especially based on those cultural differences. So being mindful of that or noticing how it might affect the receiving end of that, that me saying something to somebody might be misinterpreted based on those cultures. Cultural differences. Imposter syndrome also plays a role in this. And what I mean by imposter syndrome is it relates to our confidence or our feelings about whether or not we can communicate that perhaps we feel like we're not able to speak up because we feel like we don't know what we're talking about. Or we assume people are kind of viewing us in a way where we don't belong. So we end up not communicating concerns and kind of leading to some of those stressful symptoms. Reilly Chabie [00:15:28]: So that absolutely can play a role. But the hope through this presentation is that we build some skills that can kind of change that aspect. Information overload is a big barrier to communication. Obviously, when we're taking in a lot of information, we have to process all of that. Like our brain has to work through that information and then that stimulus in order to figure out how to respond or figure out how that applies to our experience. So if there's a lot coming at us, for example, in a lecture or in another format, we might have a hard time synthesizing those thoughts and communicating in a way that's effective, that's clear. Or we just might be confused as to what we're talking about in the first place. So that can absolutely be a barrier. Reilly Chabie [00:16:14]: And we kind of have to navigate that by seeking clarification or moving through it differently. Misunderstandings or miscommunications are a big piece to communication barriers. That is, if somebody is regularly misunderstanding you or you feel like there's been a miscommunication, a lot of that relates to clarity and conciseness. Or sometimes people feel like they have to kind of navigate these conversations in a filtered way where they're only taking bits and pieces of what you're saying and kind of misconstruing it. So misunderstandings are very, very common, but they absolutely can contribute to the difficulties here. And then the last one that I want to touch base on are assumptions. We can't assume that people know what we're talking about, right? We have to communicate things clearly. And even then, there still might be some difficulties. Reilly Chabie [00:17:12]: So something that we want to consider here is that no matter how we're communicating or no matter what we think of other people or doing, doing something related to a conversation, we need to be prepared for any assumptions we might hold, and also the assumptions they might hold about us. And nobody can read your mind, right? So we don't want to assume that they're just going to get it right away or that without communicating that they're going to help you in the way that you need. So assumptions definitely play a role here. And once again, not an exhaustive list of barriers, but a really good overview of things that we might be experiencing. I also want to talk about a very unique type of communication barrier. So Gottman, both Julie and John, they're a married couple. They created a type of couples therapy that focuses on just communication. Right. Reilly Chabie [00:18:10]: And one thing that I really loved about what they provided in this training for other therapists is something called the Four Horsemen. Now, I'm not talking about the four Horsemen of the apocalypse. I know that's really common, but I'm actually talking about the Four Horsemen in terms of communication patterns. Gottman noted that there are four types. There's criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38786085

Juggling Responsibilities: Key Tips for Graduate Student Success 11/03/2025

Juggling Responsibilities: Key Tips for Graduate Student Success Graduate school is a journey often described as a juggling act, and for good reason. In the recent episode “Juggling & Balancing – How to Multitask and Stabilize in Grad School” of the Victors in Grad School podcast, and Matthew Oxie delve into what it really takes to find success amidst the constant pull of academic, personal, and professional responsibilities. Understanding Grad School Stress Dr. Lewis opens the conversation by normalizing the stress that comes with graduate school. As he puts it, “There is a lot that you are going to be tossing in the air… Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail. And that's okay as long as you learn along the way.” This sets a compassionate tone for exploring the sources of grad school stress—ranging from academic pressure and family obligations to financial concerns and planning for life after graduation. Matthew Oxie, a licensed counselor with CAPS at UM-Flint, provides further insight, citing research that graduate students are two to six times more likely to experience anxiety and depression than their undergraduate peers. Stressors like career planning, clinical rotations, commuting, and social obligations all play a role, often overlapping and compounding each other. The Eight Dimensions of Wellness A major highlight from the episode is the discussion of the Eight Dimensions of Wellness, which include physical, emotional, environmental, financial, occupational, social, intellectual, and spiritual health. Matthew encourages listeners to use these as both a diagnostic tool and a growth map—reminding us that thriving in one area can help offset struggles in another. Self-Care vs. Self-Soothing: What’s the Difference? Perhaps the most impactful segment is Matthew’s exploration of self-care versus self-soothing. He stresses that while activities like watching Netflix or having a treat are important for unwinding, true self-care is intentional and structured—it’s about setting boundaries, routines, and practicing deliberate actions that nourish long-term wellbeing. Strategies That Work The episode wraps up with practical advice: prioritize tasks, intentionally schedule downtime, set boundaries (like keeping work email off your phone), and leverage campus resources such as the rec center or counseling services. Matthew and Dr. Lewis also encourage graduate students—no matter if they’re on-campus or online—to “get involved” in community and social activities. If you’re feeling the weight of multiple responsibilities or struggling with balance in grad school, this episode is a must-listen. You’ll come away with not just empathy for your situation, but tangible strategies for thriving—one step, and one intentional action, at a time. Ready to find your balance and become a victor in graduate school? Listen to the full episode for more insights and encouragement! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Thanks so much for being here today. I am Dr. Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you here today. And as always, you know, I am excited that we're going to be talking about a really important topic because as you go through graduate school, you definitely are going to be doing a lot of juggling. There is a lot of things that you are going to be tossing in the air and you're going to be trying to keep going. And balancing all of that as you're going through graduate school is something that all of us that have gone through graduate school before have had to work through. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:53]: And that's okay as long as you learn along the way. And today we've got Matthew Oxy with us. And Matthew is one of our counselors in our CAPS office. And I love our partnership with CAPS because we always talk about amazing topics that will help all of us to be able to learn something a little bit new. So I'm going to turn it over to him to walk us through and talk to us about this important topic. Thanks Matt. Matthew Oxie [00:01:19]: Excellent. Yeah, no problem. Thank you for having me again, Dr. Lewis. Matthew Oxie [00:01:22]: Hello. Matthew Oxie [00:01:22]: Like Dr. Lewis said, my name is Matthew Oxie. I'm a licensed professional counselor with the Counseling and Psychological Services, the CAPS department here at U of M Flint. I do. Like I said, how does that make you feel? Therapy oftentimes Today we are going to talk about how to multitask and stabilize while in graduate school through effective self care strategies, time management tactics and ways you can get involved both on campus and within your own communities to help promote your own well being. So a couple disclaimers beforehand. This is not going to be direct therapeutic advice. I advise if this is something you're seeking, you can either find services at caps, which we'll talk about here soon, or services within a community, or you're already connected. Matthew Oxie [00:02:09]: But just as a little word of advice. This is not like formal therapeutic advice. The next thing this lecture may not be a full hour. I am, I like public speaking. I'm very good at it. But I'm also kind of a fast talker. So if you guys have any questions, feel free to shout them out in the chat and I will get to them. Dr. Matthew Oxie [00:02:26]: Lewis, you as well, if you have anything, please let me know. But I guess before we really get started, I want to start with something kind of controversial guys might not be aware of this. Matthew Oxie [00:02:38]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:02:39]: Grad school can be stressful. Shocking, I know, but it's important to recognize this before we get too deep into the nitty gritty of what we want to talk about with multitasking here. So the types of stressors graduate students face. I've got my speaker notes down here, so it looks like I'm not looking at the screen. I've got my speaker notes down here. I'm not checking my phone or anything like that. So correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Lewis, but University of Michigan Flint currently offers over 30 graduate programs. Matthew Oxie [00:03:10]: Actually, I was going to say over 50. Over 50. Matthew Oxie [00:03:13]: Wow. Matthew Oxie [00:03:14]: I was looking at the. The course selector. Not the course selector like the major selection thing, like the academic programs. I only counted about 35. So you got over 50, we've got over 50. So that furthers the point that across the University of Michigan Flint campus, graduate students are a significant portion of our university's makeup. Right. So this is something that's important to talk about. Matthew Oxie [00:03:38]: Obviously, if you're listening to this, you're likely a graduate student at U of M Flint. So you understand that now common sources of graduate student stress. Graduate student student stress. Someday I'll be able to get that combination of words out of my mouth. Now, there is actually an index for this. There is the Graduate Stress Inventory. It was made in the mid-90s and it's been revised over the decades. And it asks a series of questions related to environmental, academic, and then family and monetary stressors as well. Matthew Oxie [00:04:10]: And you can see those are listed here. Academic stress, family issues, interpersonal relationships and financial stress. Additionally, though a little bit more specific to graduate school or I guess in addition to the gsi, we have career, right? Career placement, career planning. What are we going to do after graduate school as well as research and teaching. I know it is a very important part of some programs that you write a thesis, for example, or you have teaching experience or you're expected to teach or run a class or a lab. Matthew Oxie [00:04:47]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:04:47]: Just depends on what you're studying. There are other problems that are more broad that can amplify some of these stressors, Other concerns that might be totally unrelated to graduate school, but can make it harder to get through poor physical health or disabilities. If we talk about something like a physical disability, chronic pain, and even sometimes increased fatigue, all of these things can, as we've said, amplify the stress of what is above mental and emotional struggles. Matthew Oxie [00:05:22]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:05:23]: Preexisting mental health struggles or mental health diagnoses. Or mental health struggles and diagnoses that crop up as a result of graduate school. We'll talk about that here on the next slide. So I don't want to get too, too much into the mental and emotional stuff right this second. Sleep can amplify issues. How many of us don't get enough sleep in graduate school? I'm sure quite a few of us. Matthew Oxie [00:05:47]: Right? Matthew Oxie [00:05:47]: That constant, seemingly chronic exhaustion can lead to again, further feelings of stress and then finally age. This one, while Empirical is also a little more anecdotal. Age can play a role in increasing the potency of some of these stressors. Matthew Oxie [00:06:06]: Right? Matthew Oxie [00:06:06]: I want you to think about it. Older students are more likely to be a little bit more established. What I mean by that is you probably already have a family, you already have a career you might be juggling, and you might have yourself embedded in other parts of your communities, for example, on top of graduate school. Whereas someone coming right out of undergrad may not have those exact same stressors right now. Moving on to our next slide here we've got the what now? Let's talk about the how how stress affects graduate student. So before we really get into this, there is a plethora of research on graduate student stress. However, given that's not the topic of the presentation, I'm just going to give you some of the highlights and I promise the rest of the presentation is just a little bit more uplifting than this right here. So graduate students report higher rates of stress than undergraduate students. Matthew Oxie [00:07:10]: The 2013 study by Wyatt and Oswald showed that while undergraduate students show significantly higher rates of mental illness, graduate students report higher rates of stress. This stress comes from many of the aforementioned stressors that we just talked about, right? There are a lot of expectations put on graduate students. Graduate students are six times more likely to experience anxiety and depression. And those who experience anxiety and depression also report a poor work life balance. Now, I know that sounds contradictory to the last point. This study done in 2018 found that graduate students are two to six times more likely to experience anxiety and depression during grad school, right? This can lead to that increased anxiety or decreased work life balance. My words are all over the place today. I do sincerely apologize. Matthew Oxie [00:08:07]: So despite grad or undergraduate students reporting higher rates of mental health struggles, graduate students are still more likely to experience those mental health struggles as well throughout their time. And finally, many multicultural elements play a role in some of the stress as well. Everything is multicultural. When we look at some of these elements, we find that graduate students who face particularly racial discrimination and Financial distress have higher rates of anxiety and depression during graduate school. These findings persist with racial discrimination and financial stress. These findings persistent even when students have strong familial and social support. So if faced with racial injustice or heavy financial pressure, regardless of a social or familial support network, you'll still see some of these issues crop up. Additionally, students who reported as LGBTQ had higher odds of anxiety and depression on an individual level. Matthew Oxie [00:09:20]: And students who reported financial distress were way more prone, particularly to anxiety. In this study done in 2021, financial stress was a large indicator of anxiety. So we've done the fun part. I think I have another bullet point there. Women and international students tend to show heightened distress in graduate school as well. We've done the super fun part. We have established that graduate school is stressful. We know what stresses students out. Matthew Oxie [00:09:53]: We know how that, how that stress affects you guys on both the macro and the micro level. However, like I said, identifying stress is not the goal of this lecture. It's the foundation for what we kind of want to talk about here, right? The goal is to learn and discuss ways to balance graduate school with everything else. Now, graduate students have kind of a full plate. Again, I'm just full of shocking statements for you guys today. You guys probably did not know that before I said that as graduate students, I have a lot on your plates. What we have examples here on this slide, right? Some examples of things that are or make you make us busy as graduate students. Coursework and exams. Matthew Oxie [00:10:44]: I know some graduate programs have exams multiple times a week for multiple weeks in a row. Some graduate programs here on campus even condense. And their hell weeks, for example, are even more jam packed with exams because instead of the full 16 weeks, it drops to like a 10 week, 12 week program, right? There's teaching and there's researching, as we mentioned. Sometimes there is an expectation that you run your own class or there's an expectation that you're doing research for your thesis, for your final report. Clinical rotations behind me, you can't see it particularly well through the windows, but I'm across the river from the white building and most of the programs in there, pa, pt, nursing, all require some degree of clinical rotations, some of which are not particularly close to home. Full or part time jobs, whether you have a 20 hour a week, you know, kind of like flash money job that you do working at a coffee shop, or if you're like my colleague Riley, who is currently enrolled in our social work program here at U of M Flint and is also Working as a CAPS counselor, full time work can be stressful. Your occupation can add a lot of things for you to do. We talk about expectations. Matthew Oxie [00:12:00]: It's a. It's a whole nother slew of things. Family obligations. This can look a million different ways. This can look like raising children, supporting a partner, supporting your parents if they're older, or navigating life with a chosen family, for example. Family obligations are persistent. Commutes. I feel like this one isn't really talked about as much. Matthew Oxie [00:12:23]: Some students, I mean, U of M Flint is a commuter school. I know we have on campus residencies and we offer quite a few remote programs and remote classes. But at its core, U of M Flint has always been a commuter school. And sometimes those commutes really can add up. Like I said, whether you're going to class or going to a clinical rotation, that's an hour away. If you live here on campus and your clinical rotation is in Ann Arbor, down at Michigan Medicine, that's a two hour round trip commute you have to take every day, potentially longer. And while the commute itself might not be particularly difficult, US23 is not a very hard drive. It does take away a lot of time. Matthew Oxie [00:13:05]: And it makes some of these other things like researching and managing your family and managing your coursework more difficult because that time you have to do it is now even less because you have to spend two hours on the road, for example. And then finally clubs, professional organizations, or governing bodies within your cohort. Matthew Oxie [00:13:24]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:13:24]: I know some programs have like a class president, for example. And then you may be. I believe when I was in graduate school, I was in, I think it was called Chi Sigma iota. It was the professional fraternity for counselors. I believe so. And I was on the board of that. I believe I was the secretary treasurer. It was one of the things. Matthew Oxie [00:13:45]: It was a long time ago. I apologize for not fully remembering. But all of these things are examples of what the average graduate student might be faced with. What do we notice about the examples that were laid out? They look nearly identical to the things that caused us that kind of stress. I know, that's kind of obvious, right? When we talk about things being on our plate, they often correlate to being stressful. Matthew Oxie [00:14:15]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:14:18]: Graduate students are faced with many, if not all of these challenges at the exact same time throughout their programs. I have talked a little bit now about the kind of obvious stressful balancing act that is graduate school. So let's get into the actual meat and potatoes of the lecture. Let's discuss ways to Juggle all of these things, balance all these things, prioritize and manage everything we have here and potentially more while keeping our heads above water. The eight dimensions of Wellness. If you have been a student at U of M Flint for any period of time, I am sure you are familiar with this image. The eight dimensions of wellness are something that university health and well being. University health and wellness uhs, they are. Matthew Oxie [00:15:13]: They're very big on the eight dimensions of wellness and for good reason. Honestly, these dimensions, they can help us from a practical sense, the eight dimensions of wellness can help us categorize some of our concerns and help us recognize where we can grow and also really where we're thriving. They don't just have to be about, oh, what am I lacking? We can look at these eight dimensions and go, okay, I'm secure in these areas. And that can help again further that wellness and foundation. I very briefly want to discuss each of them because I know sometimes these are not discussed, they're just sort of slapped right on the page and you're just expected to be like, oh yeah, it's intuitive, it makes sense and in a lot of ways it is. So this is information from both, I believe, University of Michigan and for the life of me, I can't remember the other website, but you'll see it in the references. What other university I got this information from. So just going to go, start at the top, going to go clockwise here. Matthew Oxie [00:16:13]: Physical. It's the ability to maintain quality of life that helps you get through the activities of the day with ease. Emotional awareness. These are an awareness of, of thoughts and feelings and responses to daily interactions and events. Environmental wellness is our respect for ourselves, our respect for our community, and a respect for our environment and its surroundings. Right? This can be a love of nature, a love of keeping our cities clean, for example, like really caring about the quality of our environments that we are in all the time. Financial wellness, knowing how to manage expenses and your relationship with money. This can get difficult in graduate school. Matthew Oxie [00:17:00]: Sometimes we have to work a lot. Sometimes graduate school, not even sometimes. A lot of times graduate school is very expensive. And trying to manage living life as a regular adult, quote unquote, and having to pay for graduate school can be very stressful. Occupational wellness, the work you do and how it fulfills you. Matthew Oxie [00:17:25]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:17:27]: If you're in this point in your academic career, I would hope you're doing something that you love. I love therapy. I went to Graduate school of Central Michigan, Master's degree in clinical mental health counseling. I... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38492300

How Melissa Winter Found Her Path and Built Community in Grad School 10/27/2025

How Melissa Winter Found Her Path and Built Community in Grad School Are you thinking about taking the next step toward a graduate degree, but feeling uncertain about what that journey might look like? On this week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School,” host sits down with , Director of Housing and Dining at the University of Michigan-Flint, to discuss her distinct path through two graduate programs, the bumps along the way, and the keys to sustaining success as a student and professional. Melissa’s story begins with her undergraduate experience at Oakland University, where active campus involvement ignited her interest in higher education as a career. Yet, instead of jumping straight into grad school, she intentionally took a year off to reflect and thoroughly research programs, underscoring the importance of thoughtful decision-making rather than rushing into big commitments. Her path led her to a master’s in Higher Education and Student Personnel at Kent State University—a decision partly influenced by supportive mentors and the overall fit she felt with the campus and cohort. Later, after several years working (including living abroad for eight years!), Melissa pursued a second master’s degree—this time, an online, accelerated MAT (Master of Arts in Teaching) program designed to help her transition careers and relocate to the United States. Even though she ultimately didn’t pursue teaching, the experience provided clarity about her true passion for working with college students. Throughout the episode, a few key themes shine through: Resilience in the Face of Challenge—Melissa candidly shares how she struggled to find community and questioned her choices early in her first grad program. Thanks to thoughtful guidance from faculty, she stuck with it, ultimately finding her stride and forming lasting connections. Adaptability and Time Management—Melissa discusses how graduate school taught her to be tremendously organized, balancing assistantships, coursework, and family. She found creative ways to collaborate with classmates, like turning commutes into productive work sessions, and prioritizing time for studies early in the mornings. The Power of Community and Mentorship—Her advice for prospective grad students? Stay focused on your goals and actively seek out mentors and support networks. Success, she says, isn’t just about high grades—it’s about serving others and helping students thrive. If you’re contemplating grad school, Melissa’s journey is a must-listen reminder that the path isn’t always linear, but with grit, intention, and support, you can chart your own fulfilling course. Tune into the full episode for even more practical insights and inspiration! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Melissa Winter [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love being able to have these conversations with you. I love being able to sit down, talk to you, and be able to take. To find ways that you can take information from these conversations and be able to turn it into something that is going to help you to be able to be even more successful in this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]: No matter if you are at the very beginning, just starting to think about, is graduate school right for me? Or if you applied, maybe you've gotten accepted, maybe you're in graduate school. No matter where you are, there are still things that you can do to be able to be successful one day at a time. And that's why this podcast exists. It's here to be able to help you on this journey that you're on, for you, to be able to learn from other people that have gone before you. You might learn some things that you're already doing, but hopefully you're going to be learning some new things that others have done before you that can help you along the way. Today we got another great guest. Melissa Winter is with us today. And Melissa is the Director of Housing and Dining at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:31]: And she's her own journey that has led her to where she is today. And we're going to be talking about that journey today. So I'm really excited to have her here and to have her share some of her experiences. Melissa, thanks so much for being here today. Melissa Winter [00:01:44]: Yeah, no problem. Happy to help. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: So really excited to have you here. I know that. And I want to start today by turning the clock back in time. I know you did your undergraduate work at Oakland University, where you got a bachelor's degree in history and political science. But then at some point, at some point after being out of school for a little bit of time, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to go back to school and get a degree, a degree in higher education and student personnel. So I'd like to go back in time to that period of time. I want you to take me back to that moment, that moment that you figured out that you wanted to continue your education with a graduate degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:28]: Bring me back to that point, what made you decide graduate school was the right step for you? Melissa Winter [00:02:32]: Well, it was something that I was considering during my undergraduate degree. I was a very involved student on campus and doing lots of different things. And so it was an interest area of mine. But because I was doing a lot on campus, serving in different leadership roles, felt like I needed a year away from school. So I started doing a job search more locally for some experiences and ended up landing a role in a school environment similar to what I ended up going into. But it allowed me the opportunity to take my time and really take a look at institutions, to look at programs, instead of just jumping in without thinking about it. So for me, taking that year off to really make a solid decision helped me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:18]: Now, I know you made the decision to attend Kent State University and to get a degree in higher education student personnel. And some of this decision might have been, like you said, that you were really involved. But I guess talk to me about the decision making of why you decided to go and get a degree in higher education student personnel, but also why Kent State University. Melissa Winter [00:03:41]: So I really believed, and I still do to this day, that students taking responsibility for their education and their own involvement is very important. There's a student development theory that is that talks about this. And so that was something that I really espoused to. So jumping into higher ed for me was something that I wanted to be able to contribute back to other students, to encourage them to get involved, take on opportunities as student leaders on their campuses. So that was part of my decision making process. And then in terms of Kent State, I actually did a pretty wide search for institutions. And I did have my dean of students at my undergrad did attend Kent State. And so he suggested it as an option for me to come consider. Melissa Winter [00:04:25]: And so it was one of the schools that I was considering when I went to visit there. There was a great coordinator that was leading the program at the time. And to be honest, it just felt like the most comfortable for me in terms of the other students that I was interacting with. It just had a great feel for me. And of course, I got an assistantship offer. So it all kind of just lined up and worked out. It was a good program for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:49]: I'm going to delve a little bit into what you learned in that program, but I also know you decided down the road to get another master's degr. And I guess before we pivot too far off, you ended up down the road deciding to get a second master's degree after a number of Years of working. Not everybody would make that choice to go back to school after they get that master's degree. So bring me back to that point and why you made a decision that you wanted to add on and get a second Master's. Melissa Winter [00:05:20]: So I was actually at a point where I was considering either PhD work or doing something additional. And at the time I was living overseas and trying to find a way to return back to the United States. I'd been living overseas at that point for about eight years and learned of a master's program. It was a MAP program to teach essentially from another institution that I had worked at previously. And it was an accelerated program and thought it was something that seemed like a possibility to me and more of a guarantee for a job more easily, which was why I was considering it. And so it was a Master's in arts and teaching program and it allowed me to do it online. And so there was an opportunity for me to do that. And so that's why I jumped at doing that. Melissa Winter [00:06:13]: So I learned some things. I ended up not going into teaching. Like I learned some things about myself from that program. There were aspects that I did enjoy, but realized I did really like the higher ed environment and the college student population, just the 18 to 22, 24 year old student and adult learners beyond, I enjoyed that population more. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:36]: Even so, you had two different experiences going through graduate school, both very different in regard to the experiences themselves. One being in person, on campus, other, the other being remote and accelerated. Talk to me about transitions. Because every student that goes into graduate school, no matter if it's their first, their second, or whatever it may be, has to go through a transition. They have to transition into graduate school and transition through graduate school. And you found success going through graduate school. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the graduate school experiences that you had? Melissa Winter [00:07:21]: So in my first graduate program, I actually did hit a bit of a bump. So after about two months into my program, I was coming off the experience of a very involved undergraduate student doing a lot on campus, that feeling of community. And in graduate school, I was going into my program with an off campus assistantship. So it had a different feel. And not only was it different in terms of, in terms of involvement on campus, but it was taking away some of the activity level that I would have been used to. And my role as a graduate student was helping to teach and train undergraduates. I remember there was a point in my program that I actually had contemplated leaving it. I had a conversation with my. Melissa Winter [00:08:12]: The coordinator of my program said that I was feeling disconnected, essentially. And he guided me through conversation. He wasn't steering me in any way, but he did say, let's get through the semester first before you decide, because this was like late October or something. And he said, let's get through the semester, finish up, and then let's decide what you'd like to do then. And I actually was even considering some other assistantship options that were being offered on the Kent State campus. And ultimately I stuck with the program through that semester. And then I even decided, I'm going to stay with my assistantship. And I ended up staying with both the assistantship and the program for the full two years. Melissa Winter [00:08:55]: So I think sometimes individuals find it easy to just like, oh, this isn't working at all. I'm going to jump ship. It ended up being great advice, and I stuck through it. My next semester went well. I developed great friendships. It just took time to establish those friendships and community pieces that I wasn't. I was in a new environment from where I was before. So it. Melissa Winter [00:09:15]: You have to give yourself a little grace and time to establish that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:18]: So as you came back to your second master's degree, did you also find that there were any bumps in the road or any other issues in regards to the different way of learning or the different type of campus experience that you were going through? Melissa Winter [00:09:32]: Yeah, I mean, learning online, while convenient, it's definitely harder to make the same or develop the same relationships that you would in person. And while I was doing well academically, it was even harder to establish those connections. So you just have to really. If it's something you really want to do, you have to fight to, like, find those connections. And I did to some degree. There were some people who were closer to my age because there were students who were fresh out of undergrad in that program, 22, 23, and then some of us who are in our 40s. So. So you just have to identify people who you can connect with and reach out to, whether. Melissa Winter [00:10:08]: Whatever their ages. But. And there were some of those and some people that I'm still in touch with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:12]: So it sounds like as you were going through these different programs, there definitely were some mindset shifts that you had to go through for yourself to be able to get yourself in a place where you were ready to continue on through the program. Talk to me about those mindset shifts that you had to do for yourself that helped you be successful in the graduate experiences that you had. Melissa Winter [00:10:33]: I Think just trying to stay focused on what it is that you came to school to do or to your program, whatever, stay focused on that end goal. There was actually someone else in my higher ed program who did end up dropping out midway through and kind of like the same time frame that I was having my own struggles. And she ended up kind of going down a different career path because of that. But I think because of that conversation that I had with my coordinator and just kind of reminding me to stick to it and stay focused, I think that helped keep me on target. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]: And I guess staying on target definitely takes some organization. It takes a lot of different putting things in the right place to be able to prepare yourself and to get yourself where you need to be. Talk to me about time management, especially as a working professional, as a person going through and having an assistantship for your first graduate program, but then having full time work for your second. How did you manage all of that? How did you balance school, work, family, personal responsibilities, but also the time that it took for you to be able to do the best that you wanted to do. Melissa Winter [00:11:47]: Certainly in the first program, I would say like the first month or so it took me again a little bit of adjustment. I was used to, I don't want to say taking it easy, but I didn't need to be as organized in my undergraduate degree. And I found myself a couple times where I would work on a paper and I would get some feedback that I knew it wasn't my best work because I had waited and delayed things a bit. But in getting things refocused, managing things, it just was a learning experience, I would say the first month or two, and then realized, you know what? I can do a better job than this. Leaning on people for support, getting feedback from some colleagues. So there was a few of us in grad school that we were commuting down from Cleveland to Kent, which was like a 45, 50 minute drive. And so we would have conversations in the car about our whatever assignments or something that we were working on. It was a great support to get through things, not only just like throwing ideas off one another, but we would kind of go through and read off notes and talk about things as we were like driving down, back and forth. Melissa Winter [00:12:50]: So that was really helpful too. We were trying to use the most of our time, since we were all sitting in the car together anyways, to try to take advantage of that. That was something that was really helpful in the second degree. I just tried to mold out the time that would work best for me. I would get up early in the morning to do work before anyone got up. Let's say it was a Saturday morning. Instead of waiting until 8 or 9 o', clock, I would be getting up at like 6:30 and start getting some work done. Because I knew I had at that time like a four year old and I would have to take some time with him too. Melissa Winter [00:13:21]: So you just have to carve the time out of your schedule to make it happen. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:25]: You know, graduate school definitely changes you in many different ways and it also changes the way that you do things, the way that you think, work and approach things. So as you think back to your graduate school experiences, how did graduate school change the way that you think, work or approach problems? Melissa Winter [00:13:44]: I definitely looked at things from certainly more of a professional perspective than from a student mindset. That was one thing that changed. But also in collecting information, I think that that's something that helps me form a decision on something, especially if it's a bigger decision. Obviously when you're working on some graduate school paper or project, you are collect information. And that was a piece that I took into my professional roles as well, like collecting information before you make a decision in some cases and then really relying on some theory in some cases to back up some of your practices that you're doing just to kind of reinforce, you know what, this is the correct way to go. Because these, these are some practices that have happened from others in the past. Those are two key pieces that I think were pretty important as you think. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:34]: Back to graduate school and the graduate school experiences that you had as you were going through the program and you think back to that period of time. How did you define success for yourself while you were in your programs? And how has this definition changed over the years? Melissa Winter [00:14:54]: I think the traditional success is if you got an A on the project or the paper, like hey, you got a 4.0 like that success or something high mark to show that you did well on something. However, I think in obviously in a professional role, success is when you're able to serve students. In this case, when student you see the success of others, whether it's they're getting their degree or they have done a great program on campus, or you have helped encourage and increase student enrollment on your campus, increase student satisfaction. There's lots of pieces that you can help impact. There was great attendance at an event and not just the attendance piece, but there was an overall positive feeling by that event happening. So I think it's more about seeing the success of others versus your own success. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:50]: So as you Think about other people, other students that are considering graduate school in the future, and you think back to your own graduate education. What are some tips that you might offer others that are considering graduating an education that would help them find success sooner? Melissa Winter [00:16:06]: I already mentioned this, but one thing is just keep your eyes on the prize, so to speak. Like, stay focused on what you want to do, but also to reach out to people around you. Identify a mentor or someone who can help guide you when you're facing those moments when... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38492385

Balancing Work, Family, and Graduate School: Amy Hovey’s Success Story 10/20/2025

Balancing Work, Family, and Graduate School: Amy Hovey’s Success Story This week’s episode of Victors in Grad School features an insightful conversation between and , CEO and Executive Director of the Michigan State Housing Development Authority. Amy shares her unique journey back to graduate education and offers invaluable advice for anyone considering elevating their career with an advanced degree. Amy's story is one that resonates with working professionals, parents, and lifelong learners alike. After graduating from Alma College, Amy dove into her career—first in the for-profit sector, later discovering her true passion in nonprofit work. She candidly reveals the practical considerations many face: “I knew I wanted to go to graduate school right after undergrad, but I was hesitant because I didn’t have any money… I needed to work, and I’m glad I did it that way.” Her decision to pursue a Master of Public Administration at the University of Michigan-Flint was guided by her desire to move into leadership roles within the nonprofit sector. Amy’s experience is a testament to the idea that it’s never too late to return to the classroom. She emphasizes flexibility—not just in the structure of graduate programs, but in balancing life’s many demands. By starting with one evening class while raising four children and working full time, Amy illustrates how setting manageable goals and seeking support can make graduate school an attainable reality. One of the episode’s standout themes is the value of diverse perspectives. Amy describes the richness of conversations with peers from varied backgrounds: “We were all from different types of backgrounds… it really helped diversify my thinking.” She also notes how her studies deepened her understanding of complex government programs, which now directly inform her role in public administration. Amy’s advice for prospective graduate students is both encouraging and practical: don’t be afraid to work first, take your time, and don’t hesitate to ask about program flexibility. “It’s not a one size fit all… Ask the questions.” Her experience shows how graduate education can be crafted around your life, not the other way around. Whether you’re contemplating a return to school, navigating the balance of work, family, and personal growth, or seeking fresh inspiration, don’t miss this uplifting episode. Tune in to hear Amy’s full story and gather practical insights that could help shape your own graduate journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to talk to you about this journey that you're on. And it truly is a journey every individual that goes through graduate school is thinking about. Graduate school, is getting ready to graduate from graduate school, is going through their own personal journey, and every one of those journeys is going to be a little bit unique. But there are things that you can do today that will help you to be able to help yourself to find success in this journey, and that's why this podcast exists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]: I every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can talk to you about the experience that they went through going through their own graduate school journey. So today we have another great guest with us. Amy Hovey is with us, and Amy is the CEO and executive director of the Michigan State Housing Development Authority. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own journey and have her share that with you. Amy, thanks so much for being here today. Amy Hovey [00:01:25]: Yes, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:27]: Well, I'm really looking forward to talking with you today as well. And I know a while back you ended. You did your bachelor's degree at Alma College, and then you went off. You went off and you started working, started having a lot of different experiences that allowed for you to be able to build upon your undergraduate degree. But at some point, at some point in that work journey, you identified for yourself that you wanted to go further in your education. Can you take me back in time? Take me back to that point in time where you said to yourself, I've got to do this. What was it? And what made you decide that graduate school was the next step? Amy Hovey [00:02:08]: Yeah, so I'm going to say I knew I wanted to go to graduate school right after I graduated from undergrad, but I was hesitant because I didn't have any money. Right. I had already accumulated debt from undergrad, felt like, you know what? I need to work, and I'm glad I did it that way. So I was working and went from for profit to the nonprofit world, which, quite honestly, I just didn't know, as I think most undergrads don't really know the different types of careers that are out there until you get out into the world. And so I found myself loving working for nonprofits. And at that point I realized if I wanted to continue to not just work for nonprofits, but lead nonprofits, I should look at continuing my education. And I actually got an email from U of M Flint that said, come and to our open house for graduate programs. And I thought, huh, Now I never went to that open house, but I still clicked on the links and I looked at the type of programs that were available because I was working in the city of Flint, right in downtown, looked at U of M's campus all the time. Amy Hovey [00:03:22]: You know, had had used the library before for events. And so I was familiar and comfortable there. And I noticed they had a Master's of Public administration where you could do an emphasis in nonprofit management. And so I set up a meeting and went and talked to an advisor and said, listen, you know, I'm interested in this program. I can't go full time. I had four children and I was working full time and needed to continue to work full time, but I really wanted to do this degree. And they said that was okay. I didn't have to graduate in two years. Amy Hovey [00:03:58]: Even though the typical program outline was to get your master's in two years, I could actually take longer than that. And so I said, why not? Let's give it a try. And I applied and started that December. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:11]: Now, as I mentioned, you had been out of school for a little bit of time. So as you transition back into school, it is a transition. There are definite things that you have to do to be able to get back into that school mode and get your mind back into that school mode in many different ways. Talk to me about the mindset shifts that you had to do to be able to set yourself up for success in that graduate school journey. Amy Hovey [00:04:38]: Well, I was really excited. I'm like one of those people, I love school. So I was excited to get back into the classroom. And that was still when we purchased books and you had like a real actual book. And I was excited about getting my student ID with my picture on it. And. And so for me, it was an. It was an exciting time. Amy Hovey [00:04:57]: I was a little hesitant on how I would balance and make time for my studies. So I started with just one class. So I signed up for a single class. It was in the evening and it was one night a week, right. So it was a long class. It was like a three hour block, I think, but it was just one night a week. And I thought, well, I can do one night a week. And I had to, I think, reprioritize how I spent my downtime. Amy Hovey [00:05:20]: Right. And so instead of reading books for pleasure, you know, you start reading your homework. Right. Your textbook. You know, I traveled for work a lot during the time I was getting my degree, so I spent a lot of time on airplanes and I wrote my papers. Right. And so you just use the time that you have for school rather than for other things that might take up your time. And for me, it was not a hard shift, but it was something I was really dedicated to making happen. Amy Hovey [00:05:53]: I also really appreciated being able to just take one class and the flexibility in that. It worked not only for my time schedule, but it worked for my budget to be able to really spread out the cost of grad school and the impact on my family's daily expenses. So. So that was really helpful for me as well. I also just. I love the diversity of the class, the different types of students that were in my classes. You know, I was a Master's of Public Administration, so we had folks that worked for the government, we had folks that work for nonprofits, people who were fresh out of college, those that, like me, were returning. We had people who are like retired police officers that were coming back to get their degrees. Amy Hovey [00:06:44]: And so the conversations were very rich. It was just a great experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:50]: Now, you talked a little bit about that work life balance, and with kids and with a job and balancing all of that. Throughout the entire graduate program, there had to have been some things that you had to set into motion for yourself to be able to balance all of that for yourself and for your family. Talk to me about that. And what were some of those building blocks that you had to put in place to be able to help you to balance all of those different aspects that would allow for you to be able to get through the program to graduation? Amy Hovey [00:07:21]: Yeah, I mean, I think primarily as a working mother, I had to make sure that I had childcare. And I'm very lucky. I married and my husband was able to be with the kids in the evenings. As I mentioned, I really took it slow so that I didn't feel like I was missing out on time with my children by doing just a single class a day. So I think that was really helpful, me in balancing being able to do all the things that were a priority for me and for my family. Again, I was lucky. Not everyone has childcare so readily available, but for me, that was like the number one priority was being able to make sure that my kids were cared for. And that allowed me to be Able to come and take classes. Amy Hovey [00:08:04]: I think the other thing that really struck me was the fact that this was really adding to my work experience, right. And I found the professors at U of M Flint were very flexible. So the program allowed for me to take a couple classes from another school and bring those credits in. And at the time, all of the pro program was in person, right? Every class was in person. But because it allowed me to get approval to bring in a couple additional classes, I was able to look at other universities that had online classes, get preapproval to take those classes. And so I was able to take two classes online from another university and count them towards my graduating credits at U of M Flint. Super helpful to me during a period where my life got very busy and I could not afford that three hours solid an evening, once a week. So that flexibility was helpful to me in being able to balance. Amy Hovey [00:09:10]: I also took an independent study. So one of the professors connected with me allowed me to take an independent study, which was really great. That was very flexible. It was really at my own pace and having meetings with my professor and. And that allowed me to then that semester do two classes. So, you know, I was able to double up, which allowed me to graduate just a little bit faster than taking one class per. So I found it was a wonderful program. And anytime I had an issue with anything being able to sit down and talk to folks, the professors were easy to work with. Amy Hovey [00:09:47]: The administrators of the deans of the college. It's very easy to work with, to find solutions to make that balance work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:55]: Now you also, when you're going through graduate school, there are things that you learn inside the classroom, that hard knowledge that they want to make sure that you leave the classroom with. But there's a lot of things that you learn outside of the classroom as well, whether it be from other students, other individuals at the university itself, other contacts, etc. What was the most valuable thing you feel that you learned outside the classroom during graduate school? Amy Hovey [00:10:23]: Well, that's an interesting question. I mentioned that my classes were full with very diverse students, right. We were all different. We were all from different types of backgrounds. And so we were able to have conversations and relate our lives and our work experiences differently. And it really helped diversify my thinking. I will tell you that, you know, we tend to live in our own boxes and we're impacted by how our lives live and things that impact our lives. But able to listen and connect with people that are different, that have different experiences, help me look at things completely differently, whether it's how nonprofits are ran and the use of those nonprofits, how it is to balance our time and how other people balance our time, how we read and interpret readings completely differently, really helped me to be much more open minded, and it helped me be better at my current job and being able to do outreach and connect and understand folks within the Flint community as a whole, which was really important to the work I was doing at the time. Amy Hovey [00:11:32]: I will also say, even though you didn't ask the question yet, Chris, that I learned a lot in the classroom that impacted my work life and how I looked at the things I worked with. So being from a nonprofit, I had worked with the government a lot. Not in government at the time, but outside government. And I was always very frustrated with the bureaucracy, all the regulations, how slow things go, and, you know, had very little patience for that. But in the classes I took through the Master's of Public Administration program, I learned why there are so many regulations around many of the government programs, how those evolved, the purpose of. Of those regulations. And it gave me a different mindset and some patience in dealing with the governmental entities and programs that I was working with at the time, which was super helpful. So I remember reading a book and going, oh, this is why they do what they do. Amy Hovey [00:12:34]: They're not just trying to be painful and make it difficult to use these programs. There's actually 30, 40, 50 years of influence on these programs is how they got where they are today. And I actually wrote a paper on the Community Development Block Grant program when I was in grad school, and it was an analysis of the history of the program and how I might make that program better, really forcing me to think analytically. And now I find myself working and leading the state agency that administers those same, same CDBG programs from a state level. So, I mean, you really can't get more connected than that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:15]: I think that is great because, I mean, having those opportunities to be able to really connect the neurons. Right. And being able to see how one thing really equates to the next can lead you in so many different directions. Now, as you think about, think back to the experience that you had in graduate school and you think to what you're doing today. Talk to me about how you feel that your graduate school experience impacted what you're doing today and how you pull from that experience on a daily basis. Amy Hovey [00:13:50]: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I don't think I would be in my position today without having that degree on my resume. It is meaningful that being in public Administration was important to me enough that I took the time to get a degree and some additional learning in that area. And I think that showed, you know, the folks that hired me that this line of work is important and that I took the time to learn. I did not know when I took this program that I would be leaving the nonprofit world and moving into government. So I was very fortunate to me that this master's program really covered both nonprofit and government work and public authority work. So it really got me to where I am today. That being said, it also, in my current role, really taught me a lot about the history of these programs, what they mean, how as a public official, I have responsibilities to the public and to listening to the public, as well as taking utmost care of taxpayer dollars, which a lot of these books talk about the history of programs, how they're appropriated and why they're appropriated. And so it really gave me a sense of importance of what the role the government should be playing and the intended uses of the programs that I administer today. Amy Hovey [00:15:16]: So it couldn't be any more closely related to my learning in grad school, to my job today than it is. Right. There's direction. Connect there. And I'm really, really appreciative for the learning I did at U of M. Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:29]: As you think about your graduate school experience, what's something that you wish that someone had told you before you started graduate school? Amy Hovey [00:15:37]: I think it's important to work first. And I know I said the only reason I worked first was because I didn't have funding to do it, which is the truth. But lucky for me, it's really important, in my opinion, to have some work experience, because how I approach grad school was totally, totally different than I approached undergrad. Right. Like, this was important learning for me. I was much more engaged in learning in grad school than I was in undergrad, even though I graduated with honors from both. So it wasn't about getting the good grades, but it was really about being able to do a deeper level of analytical thinking and understanding the application of what you're learning to, to what you do day to day in your career. I don't think I made that connection on undergrad, but I certainly did in grad school. Amy Hovey [00:16:30]: So one of the things that I wish I would have known and been less worried about was it's great to work a little bit before you go to grad school. It also helped me refine the type of program I wanted. Had I went right after, I probably would have went into an MBA program, which would have been fine. I'm sure I would have had a great learning experience experience in an MBA program, but it wouldn't have been aligned to where my passion was because I didn't know what my passion was going to be when I was 21 and first graduated from undergraduate school. So I think it's important. And something I learned was, it's not bad. It's actually great to get a little work experience under your belt before you return to grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]: Finally, as you look back on your own graduate school experience and you think about others, others that are thinking about graduate school. And you've given some tips already. But what are, what are some additional tips that you might want to offer others that are considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Amy Hovey [00:17:27]: Yeah, I mean, I think just do it. Just do it. If you have a passion for learning, there are so many ways in which you can approach graduate school. It's not a one size fit all. If you're worried about being able to fit it within your schedule or within your financial budget, sit down with the university, go through what those options may look like and go on a plan that does work for you. U of M Flint was so flexible when I was there... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38491575

Finding Success Amidst the Twists and Turns of Graduate School With Hilary Murmers 10/13/2025

Finding Success Amidst the Twists and Turns of Graduate School With Hilary Murmers The path to and through graduate school is rarely a straight line, and in a recent episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, , LGBTQIA Coordinator at the University of Michigan, Flint, shares her remarkable journey—a testament to resilience, clarity of purpose, and the power of community. Hosted by , the episode begins by exploring Hilary’s academic background. After graduating from the University of Rochester with a Bachelor of Arts in English and Women’s Studies, Hilary faced early rejection in her first attempt to enter PhD programs in gender studies. Instead of feeling defeated, she embraced diverse work experiences, which led her to a pivotal summer at Girls Leadership, a camp focused on the social-emotional development of girls and gender-diverse youth. It was there, surrounded by important questions about identity and sexuality and feeling both unprepared and excited, that Hilary found her next calling: becoming a sex educator. “I started doing research in how does someone become a sex educator?... That led me to finding the graduate program I ended up in at Widener University.” Widener’s unique master’s program in human sexuality matched both her interests and her need for a queer-affirming, inclusive environment—a critical consideration she encourages other queer students to weigh when choosing programs. Hilary’s graduate school experience included enormous challenges. Just as she was finding her stride, she was diagnosed with a rare cancer, forcing her to take medical leave and pause her studies. Even after recovery, she faced additional bumps: shifting program structures, a new student cohort, and the abrupt move to virtual instruction during the COVID-19 pandemic. “It felt uncomfortable, it felt bumpy... there were a lot of bumps and transitions that made it uncomfortable, and a lot of decision points of ‘do I keep going?’” Through it all, Hilary credits her faculty advisor and perseverance for helping her navigate the many pivots. She also highlights the importance of clarity—knowing her “why” helped her persist: “As we face those bumps, we have to have some motivation to keep going... Graduate school can be fun, but it can also be really hard.” This episode is a must-listen for anyone considering grad school, especially those facing uncertainty or adversity. Hilary’s story reminds us that while the journey may be unpredictable, support, adaptability, and a clear sense of purpose can see you through to your goals. Tune in to the full episode to hear more about Hilary’s inspiring path—and let it fuel your own journey through graduate school! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Hilary Murmers [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week, as we always are, talking about your journey, your journey toward graduate school, through graduate school, beyond graduate school. Because it is so important to be able to look at all aspects of ways in which you can be successful. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to identify ways in which you can find success sooner. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you to understand the journey that they went on, to help you better have some tools for your toolbox to understand what they went through, because what they went through might provide you with some understanding of things that you could go through, but also some things that you can prepare for as you're thinking about the future. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]: So I'm really excited to be able to have our guest today. Hilary Murmurs is with us today, and Hilary is the LGBTQIA coordinator at the University of Michigan, Flint. And she has her own journey, and she's had her own journey, and I'm really excited to be able to talk with her about her journey, to have her share that with you. Hillary, thanks so much for being here today. Hilary Murmers [00:01:35]: Yeah, thanks for having me, Chris. I'm happy to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]: Now, I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Rochester, where you were working on that Bachelor of Arts in English and Women's Studies, and then you went off, you went off, you had got some experiences, and at some point you decided to continue on, continue on to get that master's degree. Can you take me back in time to that point in your life and what was going through your head as you made that choice that you were going to go to graduate school, and why was it the right time? Hilary Murmers [00:02:06]: Yeah, that's a great question. I tried to go to graduate school before. I ultimately did when I was graduating with my bachelor's in English and Gender Studies. I had applied to some PhD programs in gender studies and didn't get into a single one, which is interesting now. Like, I do the work I'm doing in higher ed, but it was kind of failed first attempt. And so I took a few years and worked and had a lot of different experiences. And then I had one summer where I worked at a summer camp called Girls Leadership. That's all about social emotional development and girls and gender diverse young people and being openly queer. Hilary Murmers [00:02:47]: In that space, I was receiving a lot of questions about identities and sexuality, safer sex that I frankly felt totally unprepared to answer. But I was really excited by. I was really like, this is cool and interesting to me. And so I started doing research in how does someone become a sex educator? And what do careers in sex and sexuality education look like? And that led me to finding the graduate program I ended up in at Widener University. It's a really unique master's degree in human sexuality. It's one of the only, like, specifically human sexuality degrees in the country. And at the time, I also had a full time job that had some tuition benefits that I could take to another institution. I was working at my alma mater at University of Rochester. Hilary Murmers [00:03:40]: And so I was like, let's go. I'm going to apply to graduate school and become a sex educator. So, yeah, I applied in spring of 2016 and started in fall of 2016. So three years after I graduated with my bachelor's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:54]: Talk to me a little bit about what you were just talking about, because you were talking about that there definitely were some things that you had to consider being queer and thinking about graduate school where you fit and what was the right fit in that regard. I know you ended up at Widener, but talk to me about as someone entering into a graduate space like that and being queer, as you mentioned, what were some of the things that you had to truly consider for yourself in regards to safety, in regards to other aspects that you were looking for in a graduate program that might help others that might be queer as well, that they might need to think about in their own journey. Hilary Murmers [00:04:33]: I think there's ways in which the institution that I went to was not the biggest question for me. Widener itself, like, is not an institution that I have a lot of attachment to, but for me, it was really dialing down into finding the program that felt like I would be getting the education that I needed and that it was a space where there were lots of queer and trans people, where there were conversations about queer and trans identities, like, baked into the program. It was a place where, like, when I looked at the materials online, frankly, I saw people who looked like me and I felt like it was a place where I could fit in. Part of my application experience was also doing a interview. So I got to go to campus and meet some current students and meet faculty members and just felt a really strong connection of this. Feels Like a place where I can be safe. I think it's also really important to name that I am white, I am cisgender. I have these other privileged identities that make safety less of an issue for me than for others in the queer community. Hilary Murmers [00:05:47]: But yeah, for me it was really about dialing into like this is exactly the thing I want to study and these are the people I want to study it with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:56]: You know, every student as they go into graduate school, go through some transitions, academic transitions, psychological transitions, social transitions. And as you transition in, you go through some transitions. But then as you're going through those transitions as well as you learn more and as you connect or disconnect, talk to me about those transitions for you. And what did you have to do as you transitioned into graduate school and also what did you have to do as you went through graduate school to set yourself up for success and maintain that success throughout the graduate school program? Hilary Murmers [00:06:32]: Yeah, so I had a bumpy ride through graduate school due to life circumstances. So when I started my program in fall of 2016, I had a full time job in Rochester, New York. And the way the program was structured is that you would spend one weekend a month in person. Widener is outside of Philly. So I was working full time during the week and then one weekend a month going down to Philly for a full weekend of classes and then doing homework in the evening or trying to get up at like 5:30 in the morning to figure out, be able to do my classwork. But my first year was maybe the easiest because of the things that came after. So I had a really rare and unexpected cancer diagnosis after completing my first year in graduate school. So in the summer of 2017, I was diagnosed with a rare cancer called osteosarcoma. Hilary Murmers [00:07:33]: And I had no choice but to put everything on pause. I took a medical leave from my graduate program. I stopped working and only focused on my cancer treatment for a full calendar year. And I'm very happy and lucky to be in good health now so many years later. And then I took also a full year to recover from that experience, physically, emotionally. I bopped around and slept on my friends couches all over the country. I lived with my brother and took care of my baby niece for a few months of that. But yeah, I really kind of had to take back control. Hilary Murmers [00:08:12]: What I think when someone has a really severe medical experience, you lose a lot of control. So I spent my gap year, I called it, just being in control of my decisions. So finally in fall of 2019, I felt ready to go back to school to restart my program. But as happens, the program had really done some big shifts internally while I was away. So obviously there was a whole new cohort of students that I was working with who became my peers. But also the course requirements were different and some of the courses I had already taken were no longer offered. Just like that adjustment that happens right now. I work in higher ed. Hilary Murmers [00:08:56]: I see it happening all the time of programs shifting. So I ended up having to work really closely with my faculty advisor to figure out how to apply the courses I had and stay on the new track that they had developed in order to get back on track, basically and try to complete my master's degree. So it took me, in the end, three years of coursework and five years total to complete my master's degree in human sexuality. Also within that time was the COVID lockdowns. So the program shifted from everyone traveling, many people from like all over the Eastern seaboard for a weekend of in person class in Philadelphia, which was really how the program was conceptualized, was that like people spend their weekend in these intensive courses to all of a sudden we're virtual and trying to do a. You know, I think our Saturday schedule was usually 9 to 6, and then Sunday was 10 to 4. Trying to translate that into the virtual format was really challenging, I think, for faculty and students going through it. So, yeah, when I started back in 2019, it felt uncomfortable, it felt bumpy, it felt like, oof. Hilary Murmers [00:10:12]: Because it didn't feel easy to come back in. I had wanted it to feel like smooth and easy. And I encountered all these just logistical challenges of figuring out my course planning and then going fully remote was not the experience I think anyone wanted at that time. So, yeah, I ended up finishing in spring of 2021, fully remotely. Some of the students who had become my new peer cohort and I did a sisterhood of the traveling cap and gown and we like mailed one cap and gown all over to each other and took graduation photos. So, yeah, it was wild. There were a lot of bumps and like you said, Chris, transitions that made it uncomfortable and that there's a of decision points of like, do I keep going? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:56]: That can definitely be challenging. And I. I've said before, and I'll say it again, not every graduate school experience is going to go smoothly. There may be bumps in the road, there may be pivots that you have to make, just like you heard Hillary say. And what I am hearing Hillary say though, is that don't let those bumps stop you from achieving the goals that you've achieved for yourself, that you might have to pivot, you might have to do things in a little bit different way, but continue to push forward, continue to work toward the goal and work with your advisors, work with the faculty and identify other ways to do it, because there may be other ways that you can do it in the end. Hilary Murmers [00:11:38]: Yeah, absolutely. My faculty advisor was a fabulous support to get me through those bumpy transitions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:44]: As I know that initially you said that you had looked at a PhD program, and then you ended up in a master's program. If you had to do it all over again, would you choose the same. The same program or path and why? Why or why not? Hilary Murmers [00:11:55]: That's a great question. You know, the PhD programs I was initially interested were like PhDs in gender studies, with the goal of becoming a faculty member, which now, knowing what I know about higher education, and also having friends who did go through a PhD and really, frankly struggled to find work at all or find work that sustains them, I feel really grateful that my PhD in the humanities didn't work out. It works for some people. And those tenured faculty positions for humanities PhDs are very, very few in number. So for me, my master's in human sexuality has served me really well. I'm able to do this work that is really meaningful to me. And I'm working in the field of higher education in a very different way than when I was 21 and graduating from college. I. Hilary Murmers [00:12:52]: I would be. But I love it. And so, yeah, I would do the same thing. I would love to ease over some of those bumps, but we don't get that choice. I would do the same thing. I'm grateful that I didn't get in during my first graduate application attempt and that life took me another way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:08]: So with all of the ups and downs and the kind of pivots that you had to go through, you definitely had to do a lot of balancing, especially as you were going into the medical diagnosis and starting and then having to take that break. And a lot of students do have to figure out what that balance is, the balance between school, work, family, personal responsibilities, whatever it might be. So talk to me about balance and what you had to do to be able to find that optimal balance as you were going through that graduate program. Hilary Murmers [00:13:39]: Yeah, you know, I think that during my first year of grad school, when I was working full time and going to graduate school part time, that was really challenging to find the balance of just. There are only so many hours in the day, and I have to Spend a good chunk of those hours asleep. So that was a really hard year to figure out. Like, when in the world do you do all this coursework? And sometimes it was like during my lunch hour at work that would like, you know, quietly bleed over into the hour past my lunch hour if I could swing it. And, you know, I'm not a person. I still don't have kids. I didn't have kids. I didn't have major caregiving responsibilities. Hilary Murmers [00:14:22]: So, yeah, for me, the balance was always like, internal of, like, how do I manage being a worker and a student? And then when I returned to graduate school, I was also working with some new disabilities from my cancer experience. I had a. I have a mobility disability now. I am hard of hearing now. And so also finding. And just my capacity was a lot lower than it was before I had a cancer experience. So when I returned to graduate school, I wasn't working. I was just in graduate school and I had home responsibilities. Hilary Murmers [00:15:01]: But the balance at that point became like, how do I manage taking care of myself and doing school? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:08]: I really appreciate you sharing that. And I think every one of us as we go through our graduate school experience, we have to find what that is for ourselves. And I guess with the experience that you had in looking at your own graduate school experience, and it was a. It was different than other students have had, but it could be similar in many ways for some as well. As you think about the experience that you had and how it changed you and who you are today, how do you feel that your graduate school experience changed the way that you think work or approach problems? Hilary Murmers [00:15:50]: I think that I gained a lot more compassion for bumps in the road for myself and for everyone. I had been a totally traditional college student. I was not a person who really struggled in school. And so, yeah, having this big interruption really helped me see and experience the path winds and we don't know what's coming around the corner. And I think I bring that to every part of my work and life now. Like, I do a lot of, like, one on one work with LGBTQ students at U of M Flint who are navigating all kinds of life challenges. And there's a way in which part of what we have to do is, like, just keep going through it. Even if we can't see what's around that corner. Hilary Murmers [00:16:39]: We have to keep taking the next step to find out and to be able to navigate as we reach those turns. So, yeah, just a lot more compassion for, like, sometimes hits the fan and then you have to clean it all. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:51]: Up as you think about other individuals that are thinking about graduate school and you think back to your own graduate school experience and what you went through. And talking to those individuals that are thinking about graduate school, what are some pieces of advice that you would offer them that would help them to find success sooner? Hilary Murmers [00:17:11]: I would encourage folks to get really clear on your goals for graduate school. What are you hoping to achieve? For me going in, I wanted to become a sex educator. The other side of it. I'm working in higher ed in an adjacent way to the field of sex education. But my goal of getting to have conversations with young people about identities and sexuality and gender is present through it all. And as we face those bumps, we have to have some motivation to keep going. Some driving force of this is why this matters. Graduate school can be fun, but it can also be really hard. Hilary Murmers [00:17:51]: And so having a lot of clarity internally about this is why... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38491405

How to Work Smarter, Not Harder, in Graduate School With the SmartPhD System 10/06/2025

How to Work Smarter, Not Harder, in Graduate School With the SmartPhD System Graduate school is often described as a journey—one filled with peaks of accomplishment and valleys of self-doubt. This week’s "Victors in Grad School" episode with is a must-listen for anyone navigating the challenges of advanced study, or even just considering taking the leap into grad school. Hosted by , the conversation delves deep into the realities of pursuing a graduate degree across different countries and cultures, and the unique obstacles that arise, especially when juggling family, working in a second language, and adjusting to new academic systems. Dr. Juarez shares her own candid story, from earning scholarships and moving continents to facing the all-too-common “imposter syndrome” and the myth that working harder is always the answer. One of the most powerful takeaways from Dr. Juarez is that success in graduate school is not solely about relentless effort. Instead, it’s about working smarter—not harder—by building holistic routines that protect your wellbeing, energy, and focus. Dr. Juarez’s personal wake-up call came when her all-in approach to her PhD left her physically and mentally exhausted. Recognizing the unsustainable pace, she began to reimagine her process, experimenting with practical strategies like the Pomodoro technique for focused productivity, intentional breaks, and prioritizing self-care. These experiences led her to develop the , a framework that supports students on key dimensions: self-care, mindset, attainable goals, reflection, time management, planning, and positive habits. Whether you’re struggling with motivation, managing multiple responsibilities, or hitting a productivity wall, Dr. Juarez’s system offers a toolkit for making consistent, meaningful progress. The episode also touches on an often-overlooked aspect of the PhD journey—reconnecting with your original passion. Keeping sight of your purpose can help reignite motivation during tough times. Dr. Juarez encourages listeners to regularly reflect on their “why” and embrace the fullness of their journey, setbacks and all. If you’re on the verge of giving up or simply searching for ways to be more effective and balanced, this conversation is for you. Dr. Juarez’s insights and empathy remind us that you’re not alone and that small shifts can lead to significant change—not just in grad school, but throughout your career. Tune in to this episode for practical advice, reassurance, and the inspiration to build your own sustainable system for success in graduate school and beyond! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it is a journey. No matter if you are just starting to think about graduate school, maybe you've applied and gotten accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:32]: No matter where you are, there are things that you can do at every step of the journey that can help you to be successful in that overall journey. That's why this podcast exists. It is here to help you to be able to identify maybe some stumbling blocks, maybe some things along the way that you can do, to be able to help yourself to prepare yourself well, or find things that you can do, some tools for your toolbox that will help you to be able to have that smooth sailing as you go through graduate school. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you to see things a little bit differently and also think about things in a little bit of a different way. Today we've got another great guest. Dr. Lucia Juarez is with us today and Lucia has a very interesting journey and we're going to be talking about her own educational journey, but also a program that she started called SmartPhD that is helping individuals that are going for that PhD to do things smarter and to really think about what they're doing to be able to have that positive, successful experience through the PhD. I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Lucia, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:01:44]: Hi, Chris, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here because I think one of the things I would love to share with you today is how when I was doing my own PhD, I thought the only way to progress was by working harder and harder. And that really affected me. It almost broke me. So one of the things that I really want to share today is how I managed to find my way around creating a system. As you said, that work helping me and is helping others to finish the dissertation faster without compromising their well being, which is so important. It's becoming more and more important to protect that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]: Well, before we jump into the SmartPhD program, because I really want to delve into that, I want to learn a little bit about your own journey because I know you did Your undergraduate work in Argentina, because you are from Argentina. That's not where you live now. We'll have some spoilers here in just a little bit of where she lives now, but you started in Argentina, and at some point in that journey, I know that you had an opportunity or you started to think about the next steps. So you were getting that bachelor's degree, and at some point you said, I want to keep going. Bring me back to that point. And what made you decide that going to graduate school was the next step? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:02:56]: Thanks, Chris. I think, to be honest, I was always curious about teaching and researching, even before finishing my undergraduate studies. So I started doing, like, advanced courses. I was very interested in heritage conservation, and I got a scholarship as soon as I finished. So I finished in December, in January, applied for a scholarship, and in April, I was traveling to Spain to do my master's degree, and I really, really loved it. And I lived in Spain. I never actually came back home after that. So it's been more than 20 years of that. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:03:31]: And years after that, I got a scholarship to do my PhD. Related with heritage conservation as well was more like industrial heritage. I wanted to work something related with Scottish architecture and the connection with Argentina. So Scott, seems like the right place. And I got the scholarship to do it here in Edinburgh University, and I've been here since then. I have two Scottish boys. So staying here? No, I don't know for how long, but I stay here for now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:00]: So talk to me a little bit about that transition, because every person goes through transitions, and now you went through some big transitions, going from one country to another country to a further country, going from different language models to different ways of teaching. What did you have to do as you were transitioning from your undergrad to your master's, from your master's to working, from working back into your PhD. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to remain successful through that entire educational journey? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:04:34]: I think it's successful. Sometimes it feels like a big word, Chris. I know because I've been listening some of your previous podcasts as well. There are many people in the academic world that suffer from imposter syndrome. Or we have this thing about not feeling good enough, academic enough. For me, my English was never enough. Actually, I was doubting. I am good enough in my English to be in podcast like this one, you know, because you feel like maybe because of my accent, will people really understand when I'm talking? Like, we have so many doubts. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:05:06]: And I was listening to some of your previous guests, I think it was Dr. Julie Snyder. She was saying something about transitions as you were saying. And she was saying like it wasn't a smart decision to stay in the campus. She was from the master to the PhD to make things easier. I think we want to look at things to make things easier for us. That's the smart way to do. But not always you have the option if you have a scholarship, you take it or you don't take it. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:05:37]: And, and for me, as you said before in another country, in another language, another way of doing without family support, without friends, I was like, at least I came here with my husband and that was nice company to have. And you don't feel that you need to start everything from scratch. But it was a big challenge. So when you were saying about being successful, I think sometimes it's not so linear. So there is a lot of ups and downs. And I think what we tried to do is these downs not to be going so deep. What happened to me, I think I was so deep that I needed to make a change. So when I was there at the beginning, I thought that working harder was the only option. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:06:25]: It was because to that challenges that I was saying about being in another country, writing your dissertation in another language, trying to adapt. I also had my first baby in the middle of the way. So it was super challenging. And I don't think I can talk about being successful until now. I can see in perspective because to be honest, I wasn't feeling that way at all. I was self doubting myself. I have this feeling that I wasn't good enough for my dissertation and I wasn't good enough to be a mom. It was really, really tough. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:07:03]: So I thought the only way to be success stressful was by working harder. And the problem was I was taking. So my days weren't really productive. So I started taking hours from the night and I wasn't resting at the beginning I thought, well, it is what it is, I need to do it. There is, there is no other way. But I ended up with there was a point I couldn't move forward. I had a sciatica problem, I couldn't move meaning I couldn't do much work on my dissertation. And also this is heartbroken. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:07:36]: I couldn't play with my baby. And that thing that you want you to do, that is progress in your dissertation, you need to stop everything because you cannot progress at all. I was having migraines. I developed tendinitis in my hand for working with a mouse for such a Long hours. So I went to see the gp, the doctor here, and he said, you need to stop, you need to go, you need to. He wrote me a letter to take it to the university, to the disability department so they can adapt my desk. He said, you need to do Pilates classes two times a week. And when I was listening to all this, Chris, I thought, this one is crazy. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:08:16]: He has no idea what doing a PhD is about. You know, like, I'm trying to use every minute I have so I can be with my son and working, like, who has time to go to the gym, you know? But at the same time, I thought, well, I cannot keep going in the same way. And that was a red flag I couldn't ignore. So I needed to stop and reflect a little bit about what, what I needed to do differently. Definitely. I started doing these Pilates classes. I changed my desk, I adapted more. I was trying to sleep more. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:08:51]: Headaches I alleviated a bit. But I was. I think it was something that came with me all the way until the end of my dissertation, until I finished. But there was something that I started to feel better. But they're still not making the progress I hoped I would have with putting some things in place. And I was having a conversation with my husband about what he can do or what help I will need to make more progress. And I would like to highlight this, something that some of your guests talk about earlier as well, or some of your episodes about having this support system, family, friends, mentors, coaches. So it's so important that we can ask for help as well. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:09:39]: But I said, you know, what I need is time. I need time to work on my dissertation. Because we were here with no family support, we need to pay for private nursery, and that's very expensive in the uk, so we never could actually afford more than three days. I also have a conversation with my supervisor about if I could change like a part time because I was a full time PhD student. And he said, you cannot change after halfway. You need to finish now as a full time student. So I needed to do the work of a full time, five days in three days, because that's what I could pay. And my husband said, well, we cannot pay more, but I can. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:10:20]: Instead of you dropping our son to nursery and I picking him up, I'll do both, so you have a little bit more of time. I said, well, that would give me one, two hours more per day. I can do something with that. And I remember going to the office, so excited about, this is the day I'm Going to make massive progress. I was there and around. Like I arrived early, around 8, I was already sitting on my desk. And around 7, Chris, not 7, around 3pm, I realized I had like 20 tabs open. I was reading something, but I realized I was looking at the screen, I was reading something, but I was like, I wasn't really understanding when I was reading. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:11:05]: I was like, where am I? What am I reading about? Why I'm reading this? What was this 20 tabs that I have open and why I'm here. It's been like seven hours here, not making progress. And I started feeling so guilty as well. I'm not with my son because I supposed to be here working and working, working, but I'm not progressing. I started crying. It was horrible. Like I felt so bad about myself. My PhD, me as a mum again, another red flag I couldn't ignore. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:11:41]: This wasn't sustainable anymore. But the thing is, it was clear that it wasn't just about having more time. I needed something different. So I thought it was time. But it wasn't just time. I need a strategy. I needed to know what I was doing. I didn't need 20 tabs open on my laptop. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:12:00]: So I was having a conversation with a friend who also have twins at the same time I have my sunbed and she said, I'm using Pomodoro technique. Have you ever tried? I said, no. What's that about? She said, well, you focus for 25 minutes, then you have a break of five minutes and then you go back to the task. And I thought, oh, this will help with the. This not like reading without really knowing what I'm reading about. Like I can't focus for 20, 25 minutes. So I was stopping and reflecting off what I can do different, what can be differently for me so I can make more progress. That it wasn't necessarily having more time because when you have a scholarship, although it's wonderful. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:12:39]: And I was feeling lucky as we, as we usually feel when we have this, it's not. But if I didn't finish on time, I needed to return the money. So there was a lot of press pressure. And because I only could work three times a week, I really need to put a strategy in place. One of the main things that I needed to think about was this. Chris, I know that you mentioned your daughter. Sometimes, like sometimes we worry we are maybe trying to work and thinking how our kids are doing. I wasn't really present and I needed to do something about that because I thought there is no point of me Being at work, thinking about my son and being with my son, feeling guilty because I wasn't doing PhD work. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:13:23]: So I try meditation and that really helped to be more present. So I just started having this strategy. I will go, my husband will take care of dropping, picking up. I will go to the office early, I'll do like a 10 minutes meditation only I will walk on my way. So I'll do some exercise that the doctor asked me to do and I was feeling better about that. So I will cycle or I will walk, I will arrive early, I'll do some meditation and I'll start doing the pomodoro technique. And the good thing about that is that I started making progress. And when you start making progress, you get some momentum as well. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:14:01]: And I brought like more energy. And I started thinking like, what were the other things that weren't working? And I started working in my distractions, what I can do with my phone. Then I realized, well, this thing alarms sounded like 25 minutes. Sometimes it's disturbing. What about. I think I can concentrate for 40 minutes instead of the. So I was listening to me, what was working, what wasn't working, paying more attention. So I started to be much more productive in the same time that before I wasn't really producing. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:14:31]: So doing these things, I got to the end. But Chris, I always remember this, holding the whole thing because at that time was in person, I needed to print it, I give it in the office. I think everyone is doing it online now. But I remember like, oh my gosh, I could have done this in less time, with less waste of energy, fewer tears. And I think that's what I want to do now, you know, now if, if I have to go. But of course it's late for me now. I think I wasted energy, I compromised my well being. I didn't go into details. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:15:11]: But sometimes that affect your relationships. You are moody, you're tired, you're frustrated because you're not making the progress that you are hoping. But it's not just about hope, isn't it? It's about like a strategy that will work for you. Because something that happened to me, I don't know if this will resonate with you because I know that you, you talk with a lot of people and sometimes people have like recipes or do this or that. As it was, for example, for the pomodoro technique, just you feel, oh, this is not for me or this won't work, this is too strict or this is too this or too that. And you feel, and I think many Times in the academic world, we normalizing that thing with the effort and do it more and more and more. We don't even think that there is an easier, better, more enjoyable way. It doesn't seem like it's something that you can actually have, but it is possible. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:16:02]: I know that everyone has their own journey and you listen to so many people in this podcast, but there's many. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:09]: Times where I remember that feeling of being a zombie in graduate school where you're losing sleep, you're trying to balance everything. I was lucky enough that in my doctorate I got my coursework before we had our first child, but I was in my dissertation phase while we had our young child. So you did have to try to carve out time to be able to have that focus time so that you didn't feel like you were taking away from your family in that way. And I know that feeling of being a zombie like you were talking about and where you were kind of clocked out per se and not being able to get things accomplished help you in developing that smart PhD system that I mentioned earlier. And I guess that sounds like from what you just said, that what you learned in this moment was really that turning point for yourself of how it changed your approach to academic life. But then I guess I look at it and think, as you look back at that now and you work with other students, what did that period of time do for you that now you try to use your system and you try to help others in learning so they don't repeat the same issue? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:17:14]: I think it wasn't so straight away. So what I was sharing my story is with the time because I was a tutor at Edinburgh University and I was doing some teaching... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38217950

Finding Success in Graduate School: Mindset, Community, and Self-Care 09/29/2025

Finding Success in Graduate School: Mindset, Community, and Self-Care Embarking on the journey of graduate school is both exciting and challenging, a truth eloquently explored in the recent episode of Victors in Grad School featuring , Associate Professor of Education and Director of the Honors Program at the . Hosted by , the conversation delves into the realities of graduate education, highlighting transformative experiences and sharing practical wisdom for current and prospective students. A central theme of the discussion is the importance of mindset. Dr. Sreckovic reflects on her transitions—from classroom teacher to graduate student, then onto a doctoral program—emphasizing the need to adjust expectations and embrace continuous learning. She recounts how her drive to better support students with disabilities, particularly those with autism, sparked her ambition for advanced study. This personal motivation underlines the significant impact that meaningful experiences can have in shaping academic and career journeys. The episode also addresses the challenge of imposter syndrome, a feeling all too familiar for many graduate students, especially those who are first-generation college attendees. Dr. Sreckovic shares candidly about moments of self-doubt and the steps she took to reaffirm her sense of belonging. Importantly, she advocates for building a “community of safe people”—mentors and peers who offer guidance, encouragement, and camaraderie. This theme of community recurs throughout the conversation, with both Dr. Sreckovic and Dr. Lewis stressing the value of collaboration and finding supportive networks within graduate programs. Work-life balance and time management are further touchpoints, with Dr. Sreckovic offering practical strategies: block out dedicated study time, stay organized with to-do lists, and use even small windows of opportunity productively. She also highlights the necessity of self-care and seeking campus support services, such as counseling, to prevent burnout and maintain well-being. The conversation rounds out with reflections on the broader skills gained in graduate school, including the power of networking and the importance of listening to diverse perspectives. Dr. Sreckovic encourages prospective students to research programs, get involved, seek funding opportunities, and, above all, to believe in their own place within the academic community. If you’re contemplating graduate school or are in the midst of your own journey, this episode offers reassurance, actionable advice, and inspiration. Listen in to gather tools for your own toolbox—and remember, you’re never alone on this path to success. Tune into Victors in Grad School to hear the full conversation and gain more insights on thriving in graduate education! TRANSCRIPTS Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again. And as always, you and I are on a journey. We are on a journey. As you are preparing and thinking about graduate school, maybe you are just starting that process for yourself where you're trying to determine what you're going to do, what you want to do next to get to reach those goals that you have for yourself. Maybe you've already applied and you figured out the programs that you're applying to and you're waiting for that decision in the mail or in your email. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:48]: Or maybe you're already in graduate school and you're working your way through the process. You see that light at the end of the tunnel and. And you are trying to figure out what it means to be a graduate student and how you can be best successful no matter where you are. This podcast was developed to help you to be able to find success sooner. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences, different perspectives that can talk to you about their own experiences in going through graduate school so you can gain some tools for your toolbox to help you along your own journey. Today we've got another great guest. Dr. Melissa Sarkovic is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:30]: And Melissa is an associate professor of education and the director of the Honors Program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited to be able to have her here to talk about her own experience and to share that with you. Melissa, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:01:44]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: Well, I love being able to talk to people about their own experiences. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University. You got that back. Bachelor of Arts in elementary education. And after graduation, you went out, you worked for a bit, you became a teacher. And at some point, at some point in those early years of teaching, you got a spark. There was something that made you start to think, maybe I want to go and get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: And why did you decide that graduate school was the. Why it was the right time for you to go to graduate school and why you ultimately decided to go to graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:02:30]: Well, after I graduated from Michigan State, I moved to Cary, North Carolina, where I began my teaching career as a third grade teacher. And right before school started the principal came to the third grade team and said, what teacher wants to be the inclusion teacher this year who wants to have the students with disabilities in their class? And I eagerly said, I do. And. And of course, that's not how things work anymore. This was a while ago. And so I had just the best experience my first year teaching students with and without disabilities in the classroom. I was able to collaborate with a special education teacher, and I realized that I still had a lot to learn about special education. And if I was going to be a really solid teacher and meet the multifaceted needs of these students in my class, that I needed more information. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:03:24]: I needed a different skill, skill set. And so that's what prompted me to get my master's and a focus in special education. And I went back to Michigan State for a couple reasons. It was comfortable. I already knew some of the professors there, and also because of the format, I was living in North Carolina. I wanted to stay in North Carolina, and I wanted to continue teaching. I didn't want to take a break from teaching. So I was looking for an online program that I could do mostly on the weekends so that I could really focus on my students in my classroom. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:03:55]: And Michigan State afforded me that opportunity. So that was why. That's why I decided to go back for my master's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:02]: Now, I know that you got that master's degree. You finished up, went back, worked with your students, engaged yourself within your. Your classroom and in your school. But then again, two years later, you had that inkling again, and you decided that you wanted to go further, and you ultimately decided to get a doctorate degree in special education in Autism Spectrum Disorder. And you. You decided to go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. So talk to me about what made you decide that you wanted to take that next step and get the PhD versus just staying at the master's level. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:04:39]: So I taught a student with autism, and he just really changed the trajectory of me for my professional life. And I just understood him. We got each other. I was his safe person. When he moved on to fourth grade, into fifth grade, he would come back to my classroom if he was 15, feeling overwhelmed. And I realized that he was really misunderstood by other teachers in the school, by other students in the school, by parents. And he is such a great kid. He's brilliant. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:05:12]: He's so kind, so empathetic. And I thought, you know what? I can. I want to go back to school so that I can better prepare teachers to work with students like him so that they really understand the strengths and value that kiddos like him bring to the classroom. And really to help teachers foster a classroom community where everyone in their class belongs and understands their value. So that was really why I decided to go back to graduate school to get my PhD, because I really wanted to learn more about autism and how I could better support teachers in supporting their students on the spectrum. So, so when I was looking at doctoral programs, I was looking for a place that had researchers doing work on autism. So UNC Chapel Hill had some of the biggest autism researchers around the world. Dr. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:06:04]: Sam Odom, Dr. Gary Meziboff, Dr. Kara Hume, were doing some really phenomenal research at UNC Chapel Hill. So I decided to go for an informational session and learn a little bit more. I learned about an interdisciplinary grant that I could apply for that would fund all four years of my PhD program. And I would do research as part of that grant and I would also teach as part of that grant. And that was under Dr. Harriet Abel. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:06:32]: And I applied and was awarded the grant and thought, okay, well, all the stars are aligning. It looks like I'm getting my PhD. But really it was having that student in my class which really sparked my interest in thinking, you know, what, I can do more, I can make a bigger impact. And the avenue in which I do that is getting my PhD. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: I know that whenever you start a new degree, there are transitions. And as you go into that degree itself, you're having to learn a lot about not only yourself, but about what the expectations are for your faculty, how you're going to have to learn in a different way, and you have to figure that out as you go along. As you think about your master's degree, your doctorate degree, and you think back to those experiences, what mindset shifts, what mindset shifts did you have to make to succeed in graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:07:24]: One of the bigger challenges for me going from the third grade classroom into a full time PhD program was the lack of reinforcement. So when you're teaching third grade, you have 258 year olds that are coming to you every morning and excited to see you and you are like reinforced all day long by their smiles and their laughing and their high fives and you know that you're doing something right. When you get to a PhD program, you don't have that instant reinforcement anymore. And in fact, you have a lot of feedback that's not always positive. It's not negative either. It's meant to help you grow. But it was a mindset shift. When you're getting papers back and there's A lot of work that you need to do on it. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:08:09]: So that was one of the biggest shifts for me in my master's program. I felt like there was still a lot more positive reinforcement. In the PhD program, there certainly was positive reinforcement, but it just wasn't nearly as common or as consistent as when you're teaching third grade. That was a very big shift for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:27]: A lot of students that I talk to talk about the fact that as they're going through their graduate degrees, at times they feel like an imposter. They feel like they shouldn't be there. They feel like they are not worthy of the, of the opportunity to be in those programs. Did you ever face imposter syndrome or self doubt during your graduate studies? And how did you handle it? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:08:50]: Absolutely. And I would say that sometimes still in my professional journey, I face imposter syndrome. I mentioned that I'm a first gen grad student. So even navigating the college application as an undergrad student, but especially as a graduate student was challenging because as when I was applying for undergrad, at least I had my high school counselors to help. But then when you're applying to grad school and you're a first gen college student, you don't have anyone in your family that you can go to and say, hey, does this look right? Can you read over my essay for me? So that's challenging. But I remind myself that everyone wasn't accepted into this program. It wasn't an open door policy where everybody gets in. So I earned my spot there and I belong just as much as the next person. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:09:38]: And I think it's really important when you start your graduate journey that you find your community of people. That was just instrumental. And my success in my PhD program was finding my safe people that I could ask silly questions to. And we supported each other, we encouraged each other, we were there to help each other. And you know, that helps with imposter syndrome too. When you find your people and you know like, this is your place, this is where you belong. I think you just have to remind yourself that you got in just like everyone else. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:10]: That's always an important thing to do. Whether it's on a daily basis, whether it's on a monthly basis, a semester basis, you are reinforcing that you are meant to be there. The program believed in you and now they're giving you an opportunity to not only believe in yourself, but really to step up to the plate, step up to the challenge. Because it will be challenging, but it is an opportunity that they are giving you because they feel that you are worthy of that opportunity. So always keep that in mind as you're going through not only the good times, but the challenging times, because there will be both as you go through graduate school in general. Now, Melissa, I know that there's a lot of things that are thrown at you as you go through graduate school. And many times people that are going through graduate school are wearing many hats. They're having to be a employee, they're having to be a friend, a family member, maybe a spouse or a parent. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:06]: And that takes a lot of balance. Talk to me about balance for yourself. How did you balance school, work, family, or other responsibilities while you were going through graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:11:16]: When I was in grad school, both for my Master's and my PhD, I did not have kids yet, so I was married and I have a very supportive husband. And so that is definitely key. And my husband shared in my goals. You know, he knew that I wanted to finish my doctoral program and he was very supportive of that, which was really huge. But I think you just have to make the time. I would block out time through the week where I would study, and so it was just set there on the calendar. This is really silly, but I am very efficient and I always have my backpack with me. So if I was heading home from Chapel Hill to my apartment and there was traffic, I would pull over into a parking lot and I would work until the traffic died down because I didn't want to waste an hour in traffic when I could have been reading an article. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:12:07]: So. So I just used my time as efficiently as I could and then I built in time. It may not be five hours that I could spend with my husband on a Saturday, but maybe it's two hours. And those two hours, I try to make it count as quality time where I put my work aside. And then I also tried to build in some fun. So I had a really great community when I was in graduate school and I brought my husband into that community and we would go out in Chapel Hill and go to dinner and things like that together. And so having a community, that kind of helps me push you through the program and contributes to both the work life balance. Because you're studying together, but you're also going out and exploring your new town together. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:12:48]: That was really helpful as well. And then the last thing I will say is you just have to be very organized. I'm very organized person and I love a to do list. So lots of to do lists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:59]: Well, the to do lists are definitely one thing and as you said, you're very organized. Not every person is. And time management is definitely important. As you go through graduate school, talk to me about some of the time management management strategies or tools that were most helpful to you. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:13:14]: Well, I would set out specific times of the day where I could study, where I wasn't teaching, where I wasn't doing research, and when I didn't have class and they were blocked out in my calendar. Now this was a while ago, so I didn't have Google Calendar. I had like a physical calendar that I would block it out in. But that helped me with time management. And I would look at my syllabus and I would write everything down, all the big due dates down in my calendar, so I knew when they were coming up. I'm not a procrastinator, so I would slowly work on those bigger projects. I believe it or not, my undergrad students don't typically do this, but I went to office hours of my professors and I would ask questions and make sure that I understood the assignment so that what I was working on, I was. It wasn't wasted time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:01]: You definitely want to take advantage of all the time that you have now. Realize also, though, that it's not always going to be easy and there's going to be time where even when you're putting in the time and the effort that you burned yourself out. And that can feel frustrating. It can feel overwhelming. And I say that just because everyone should know that it is something that may impact you while you go through graduate school. Melissa, talk to me about burnout for yourself and what did you do to avoid burnout or to recover from it when you were feeling overwhelmed? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:14:34]: First, I would say that I definitely reinforced myself. So if I was working on a big project or if I was trying to get a paper submitted for publication, when I submitted it, I would have some sort of reinforcement after and whether that meant that I could go walk around the mall or I bought myself a new top, or I would take myself and my husband out to dinner. So building in those reinforcements are really important and they don't have to be anything big. It could be like, I'm going to go take a walk around the block with my dog now that I did this. And having those builds in sometimes throughout the week and then bigger reinforcements when I submit a big project was really helpful. You have to take time for yourself. I like to run, so I run almost every day, and I did during my graduate program too. So working out is definitely a way for me to like, release stress. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:15:25]: And just have that 30 minutes to myself, I think was really important to help preventing burnout. And then I would say I did access. One of the greatest resources that I used when I was a doctoral student at UNC was their counseling and psychological services. So I did go to therapy when I was a doctoral student using my UNC resources. So it was free for me and it was really a game changer for me. It really helped me refocus and helped me complete the program successfully. So I'm very thankful for that resource as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:00]: We definitely have to destigmatize the use of services on campus. And I've talked about that in the past, the fact that if you feel that you need help, if you feel that there are services that could help you to be successful, ask about them, search them out, and... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38210720

Why Accreditation Matters When Choosing Your Graduate School Program 09/22/2025

Why Accreditation Matters When Choosing Your Graduate School Program If you’re planning your path to graduate school—whether you’re a first-generation student, a working professional, or a lifelong learner—there’s a crucial factor you shouldn’t overlook: accreditation. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, sits down with , Accreditation Officer at the , to demystify accreditation and explain why it matters so much to your graduate journey. Understanding Accreditation—Your Assurance of Quality Dr. Lewis opens the conversation by highlighting how many students overlook accreditation while searching for the right program. Daniel Sessions breaks it down simply: think of accreditation as a seal of approval on your education. It stands for legitimate quality assurance and long-term value. When an institution or a program is accredited, it’s been vetted by rigorous standards—giving you peace of mind that your time and investment will pay off after graduation. The Difference Between Institutional and Programmatic Accreditation One of the most important clarifications in the episode is the distinction between institutional and programmatic accreditation. Institutional accreditation is a broad assessment of a whole university or college. Programmatic accreditation, however, dives deeper into evaluating a specific program or area of study—often required for careers that rely on licensure or specific professional credentials, such as healthcare, accounting, or law. Why You Need to Care About Accreditation Dr. Lewis and Sessions stress that choosing an unaccredited or questionably accredited program can have real consequences, such as ineligibility for professional licensing, difficulty transferring credits, or even trouble qualifying for financial aid or future educational opportunities. Accreditation isn’t just about prestige—it can impact your ability to practice in your field after graduating. Essential Questions for Prospective Grad Students Sessions encourages prospective students to ask admissions officers what role accreditation plays in their programs, verify accreditation status with official accrediting bodies, and consider how the school’s reputation is reflected in the industry. Trust but verify—don’t be afraid to dig deeper! Ready to Learn More? Listen to the Full Podcast Whether you’re just starting to weigh your grad school options or you’re narrowing your choices, this episode offers practical advice and insider insight that will empower you to make informed decisions. Listen to the full episode of "Victors in Grad School" to hear Daniel Sessions’ personal journey, tangible tips, and deep dive into academic excellence. Your pathway to graduate success starts with asking the right questions. Don’t miss this essential conversation—give the episode a listen today! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together as you are going through and figuring out those steps that you are taking to prepare yourself to go in, go through, and even go out of attending graduate school. And that's why this show exists. It's here to be able to give you some hints, some tips, some tools, some things that you can learn from that'll help you to find success in that graduate school journey. I love being able to sit down and talk with you every week because there are things that you can do right now, things that you can do to prepare yourself, to make sure you're asking the right questions and making sure that you're prepared for identifying the right schools for you if you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: If you're at the very beginning or that you're making sure that you know what to do as you're going through that school and as you're looking at the light at the end of the tunnel. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you do just that. And today we got another great guest. Daniel Sessions is with us. And Daniel is an accreditation officer for the national association of Academic Excellence Incorporated. And we're going to talk about that because I've talked about accreditation in the past. If you've ever gone to any of the webinars that I've done or you've heard me talk about. Things to look for when you're looking at schools, when you're considering different schools. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: And accreditation is one of those things that not everybody asks about. It's kind of in the background. Sometimes you see it on a website, but it is something that is important, and it's something that you should know about. So we're gonna be talking about that as well. But first and foremost, I'm really excited to have Daniel here. We're gonna have him talk a little bit about his own experiences as well. So, Daniel, thanks so much for being here. Daniel Sessions [00:01:59]: Thanks, Dr. Lewis, for having me. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to have you here today, to have you talk about not only accreditation, but some of your own graduate school journey. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Southern Illinois University and then you graduated Went out into that workforce, graduated, got some experience, and at some point you made a decision, you made a decision that you wanted to continue and go on and get further education. Can you bring me back to that point and what made you make the decision that you wanted to take that next step? Daniel Sessions [00:02:31]: So I have to give a shout out to an identity piece that I have, and that is not only a first generation undergraduate student, but a first generation graduate student. And so at that point, where I decided to go back to graduate school was I had seen the benefits that formal undergraduate education had given me as I entered, entered into the workforce. And I knew I had a taste of the nice sweet fruit. And I realized that it could only be better if I furthered my education and deepened my understanding in a very specific specialization area. And so I went on about a 12 month experience process where I tried to decide, well, what was it? There are many different areas that you could go study that you could elect to do. In addition and above and beyond that, where could I go? And so ultimately I decided to enroll and go to graduate school to better my life and to give myself not only some upward mobility in a credential perspective, but, but also just to gain further light and knowledge in my life so that I could be the best professional that I could be through advanced education. Because I felt like I was made for that and I wanted to experience that myself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:29]: Now you just talked about that. You went through that process of looking at programs, looking at schools, figuring out what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go, and I guess bring me to that point, talk to me about what you did as you were looking and, and exploring those different schools. And I know you ultimately decided to attend Northwestern University to get a Master of Science in Strategic Communication and Law. What made you decide that Northwestern was the right school? And what made you decide that Strategic Communication and Law was the right program? Daniel Sessions [00:04:01]: So I was at a pivotal point in my adult career where I had spent the first just over a decade in clinical healthcare and had exited clinical healthcare to start teaching human anatomy and physiology at a local technical college. And I really had a departure point that I was grappling with. It was either double down and go back and go to graduate school in the form of clinical medicine, or specialize in a different area. And I loved working in education and I knew that higher education administration was something that I could see myself having a very long and rewarding career on. Now, around that same time frame, we were seeing a lot of change in the higher education space. And A lot of change in the regulatory space as it relates to oversight of education, the 2008 through 2010 and 11 timeframe. And I decided ultimately not to pursue and continue to pursue clinical healthcare, but to specialize in an area that would help me in higher education administration and strategic communications. I've always liked to talk, I've always liked to present. Daniel Sessions [00:04:57]: And it was just something that I felt as though was part of who I am and what I do. And so to be able to rally the allegiance of my associates through words and present material and clear and concise manners was something that I was looking for. And so as I evaluated Northwestern and suburban Chicago, not only the reputation of the institution, but also the program, as I evaluated it, just seemed like it fit my needs very well. And I was very excited to jump in with both feet. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:23]: Now, every student, when they go from undergraduate into graduate work, there is a transition that you go through, a transition in the way in which faculty are expecting things of you, transitions in the way that you have to read, in the way that you have to write, in the way that you have to do a lot of different things. You were successful, you came into the program, you got through the program. As you made that transition from undergrad to workforce and then workforce back into graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your entire graduate school journey? Daniel Sessions [00:05:58]: I had to be very self disciplined in setting some boundaries for myself. If I knew I was going to be focusing on other responsibilities, I wouldn't be sort of half in my studies, my research, my assignments, my writing. If I was in school mode, I needed to be in school mode and remove all other distractions out of my life. At this time in the season of my life, I was a young father. I was working to make ends meet and go to graduate school at the same time. So my plate was quite full. And so I had to dedicate and create some boundaries for my own self so that I could give everything I had to my scholastic endeavors. And so that's really what I attribute a lot of my success to. Daniel Sessions [00:06:33]: But also just some of those intrinsic motivation factors. Really wanting to do this not only for myself and for the process of learning and growth, but also for the process of my family and my young growing family. That really helped from a motivational perspective, to really buckle down, even when I was tired, to stick with it and take everything that I could out of the activities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: I mentioned earlier that you are working for the national association of academic excellence. And in that association, they are an association that is working on accreditation and accreditation for institutions, for programs. And it's not something that everyone talks about. It is not something that that especially academics talk about it, Universities talk about it. It's really important for universities for programs. But when it comes to students looking at graduate schools, when it comes to parents and students in high school looking at schools, it's not a question that is usually on the tip of their tongues. So I guess first and foremost, before we delve too deep into this, one of the things that I was really interested in having you talk about is for someone just starting to explore graduate school, how would you explain accreditation in the simplest terms? Daniel Sessions [00:07:41]: The simplest terms I would use would be legit quality assurance and long term value. Those are the three main things that I would attribute to accreditation and what accreditation affords an institution as you're evaluating whether or not to attend graduate school there. Now, I can't talk about accreditation without rewinding the clocks back a hundred years. And when you go back 100 years ago, what did accreditation start as? And what was the main focus of accreditation when it was really entering the scene of higher education 100 years ago? And that was really quality assurance and academic excellence, Focusing on the academic rigor of the programs, the courses, the assignments, the faculty, the scholarship, you know, really putting a seal of approval on this is what you get when you are an accredited institution through this enterprise. Over the last hundred years or so, and especially in the last few decades, we've seen accreditation take on multiple different arms. And it's by virtue of just the competencies that accreditors have to offer institutions. And so we've seen over the course of that time period, accreditation start to be focused in some other areas as well, and some would argue focused in those areas more so than what they originally embarked on the journey of accreditation to do. And so I think accreditation is really, really important. Daniel Sessions [00:08:56]: And specifically asking questions around how does that accreditation assure academic excellence within the institution? What role does quality assurance play in continuous improvement of the courses and the programs at that institution? And so accreditation, think about it as a seal of approval or an extra meas of academic excellence, as a distinction or as a distinguishing factor for that institution to talk about when you're thinking about matriculating into a graduate program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]: I appreciate you sharing that. And I know that as someone hears the word accreditation, they're going to hear institutional accreditation and they're going to hear programmatic accreditation. What is the difference between institutional accreditation and programmatic accreditation. And why does that distinction matter to students? Daniel Sessions [00:09:43]: That distinction matters greatly. And there are two very different specific lenses that those accreditors look at. Institutional accreditation. Think about it as a 30,000 foot view with microscopes down into specific areas. It is over the entire institution at large, their entire process of continuous improvement, their entire process of faculty qualifications and institutional effectiveness. It looks at the college and the university as a whole. Whereas programmatic accreditation is specifically focused on a discipline of study or a school of study within that institution. So let's say it's a business programs accreditation. Daniel Sessions [00:10:18]: They look at the business programs in a similar way that an institutional accreditor will look at the entire institution. A programmatic accreditor will look at the entire operations within that given program. And it's considered or sometimes referred to as a specialized accreditor for that specific reason, because they have specific and distinct oversight of those areas that require specialized things in those specific programs. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:43]: Now, when someone first goes onto a website, programs that are accredited are going to make it very clear that they're accredited. Sometimes it can be in small print and still be on a page, and sometimes it's not, as always, easy to find. But usually a program will be very proud of the fact that they've been accredited by a agency. As you think about graduate students that are considering different programs, why should prospective graduate students pay attention to accreditation when choosing a program? Daniel Sessions [00:11:10]: Well, you should pay attention to accreditation when choosing a program for a couple of reasons. One, programmatic accreditation is largely voluntary. It's voluntary in the fact that there are many programs out there that may not be programmatically accredited. And you have to understand why that matters. Now, as you're approaching, say, a specific discipline of study that has and or leads to some form of professional licensure within your state or within your country, it's really, really important to attend a programmatically accredited program. There are higher standards on the outcomes of those graduates that lead to licenses within their given discipline or their given employment field, say accountancy, for example, or some healthcare examples, or social work, mental health type providers, or even teachers. Right? By looking at programmatically accredited programs, you're basically understanding that they are meeting very specific outcomes that these accreditors will require of these programs that are competencies demonstrated and or retained by graduates of that program. And so if you're thinking about and evaluating programmatic accreditation of a given program, it's really, really also too important to know, does this program lead to some form of specific type of licensure or specific type of approval to be employed in that field. Daniel Sessions [00:12:29]: And if so, that should even bump up your priority level of a programmatically accredited program even more so in thinking. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]: About that, it seems like you're saying that especially for those credential programs, there are definitely some risks or consequences of not enrolling in a program. So what are some of those risks or consequences that students should be aware of if they don't enroll in a program that has that proper accreditation? Daniel Sessions [00:12:54]: The best example that I can give you is one within the clinical healthcare space. You know, and somebody that was educated internationally, they could find themselves not being able to be appointed to the boards here within the United States to practice in that clinical healthcare profession. They could find employers that are unwilling to employ graduates of unaccredited programs. And so while you may be able to navigate the academic journey and attain many of your scholastic endeavors that you want to obtain for your own personal sort of intrinsic value, the outcome of an unaccredited program may ultimately be difficulty in the life after graduate school. What does that look like after and how do I demonstrate that while I did have and achieve great learning, some employers may not even entertain discussing potential employment with you if you did not attend a programmatic the accredited program? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:44]: Well, another example, I worked at a law school for almost 10 years, and there are law schools that are accredited only in certain states. And if you attend a law school that is accredited only by, let's say, California, you can only practice in California and sit for the bar exam in California. You cannot sit for any other bar exam in any other state. You can only sit for the bar exam in that state. So you have to be really willing to stay in one state to use that license if you're going to sit for the bar exam. It doesn't take away the fact that you got a JD but it does take away the ability to be able to sit for the bar exam and take that credential with you and sit for other bar exams in other states. So that's just another example that could be a risk if you are not asking those right questions on the way. Are there other, other impacts that you can think of, Daniel, that this accreditation can impact, like financial aid or transfer of credits or other aspects that students should be thinking about? Daniel Sessions [00:14:44]: Yes, absolutely. And so if continuing education, if you're, if you consider yourself like I do, a lifelong... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38050060

Why Mentorship Matters in Grad School: Insights from Dr. Jonathan Bartels 09/15/2025

Why Mentorship Matters in Grad School: Insights from Dr. Jonathan Bartels Embarking on graduate school is more than just an academic decision—it’s a deeply personal journey marked by self-discovery, challenge, growth, and, ultimately, transformation. In the recent episode of Victors in Grad School, sat down with Dr. , Assistant Professor of Education at the , to explore the realities of pursuing advanced degrees and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Dr. Bartels’ candid reflection on his path—from an undergraduate at East Carolina University to earning his master’s while teaching, and then pursuing a doctorate at UNC Chapel Hill—sheds light on several key themes that resonate with anyone considering or currently navigating graduate education. 1. The Nonlinear Nature of Academic Paths One of the central takeaways is that the journey to and through graduate school isn’t always mapped out from the start. Dr. Bartels never planned to pursue a master’s or a doctorate—he was fueled by a desire for deeper intellectual engagement and the encouragement of mentors who saw potential in him. His story reassures listeners that it’s okay—and often beneficial—to let curiosity and passion guide your next steps, even if they diverge from your original plan. 2. The Power of Mentorship and Community Dr. Bartels emphasizes how pivotal faculty relationships were to his development, especially choosing graduate programs based on the research interests and support of specific professors. Connecting with advisors and building a supportive cohort community can ease transitions and provide both professional opportunities and emotional sustenance. 3. Managing Mindset and Embracing Growth Imposter syndrome and self-doubt are common companions in graduate school. Dr. Bartels opens up about normalizing these feelings and maintaining perspective: your presence in a program is evidence of your worth, and challenging moments are natural signs of growth. Reframing experiences from “jumping hoops” to opportunities for learning and self-betterment is key for long-term success. 4. Balancing Life and Prioritizing Well-Being Graduate study often means juggling academics, work, family, and personal commitments. Dr. Bartels offers practical advice—set boundaries, proactively communicate with faculty, make time for rest, and remember that self-care is not a luxury but a necessity for sustainable, effective learning. 5. Purpose-Driven Learning Most crucially, Dr. Bartels reminds us to continually revisit our “why” for pursuing graduate education. Anchoring your studies in your personal and professional aspirations provides resilience, motivation, and a sense of direction to weather the inevitable challenges. Whether you’re contemplating graduate school or already in the trenches, this podcast episode is packed with honest advice and encouragement. Listen in to gain insight and inspiration for your own academic journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: Experts about what it takes to find. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are working together on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is. As you go from your undergraduate degree to looking at the possibility of a graduate degree, or maybe you've already applied, you got an accepted, or maybe you're even in a graduate program now. This continuum that you're on is definitely a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:42]: You're going to learn a ton along this whole pathway. But there are things that you can do right now to prepare yourself better for the future that you want to attain. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to. To identify ways in which you can be successful in this graduate journey that you're on. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you in many ways to learn things that they may not have known along the way that they had to learn the hard way, and maybe gain some additional insight that can help you as you go through your own journey. This week we got another great guest with us. Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]: Jonathan Bartles is with us. And Dr. Bartles is an assistant professor of education at the University of Michigan, Flint, and he has his own educational journey that he went on to get his doctorate and now be teaching at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to be able to have him here today and to have him share some of his own experiences. Jonathan, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:01:46]: Thanks so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:47]: It is my pleasure, really excited to have you here today to be able to talk about this journey that you went on. And I, as I said, it is a journey. And I know you did your undergraduate work at East Carolina University. You stayed on for a master's degree there and then went on to get a doctorate. Every person comes to thinking about graduate school in a little bit different way. And I guess for you, I would love to take you back to that point, take you back to those days at East Carolina University where you were getting that Bachelor of Science degree in English Language Arts and Teacher education. And at some point you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on into a graduate career degree, and you made that Choice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:32]: So talk to me about that. What made you choose that graduate education was the next step and that you were going to continue on? Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:02:39]: Yeah, absolutely. So it actually wasn't part of my plan. I graduated with my undergraduate and I started teaching. And my plan was to. I'm going to go teach and I'm going to enjoy it. And I loved teaching. The first year of teaching is. We often refer to it as kind of treading water. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:02:51]: It's. You're trying to, you know, just figure everything out in your own classroom. So I was doing that and that was really fulfilling and time consuming. But at the end of that first year, I realized that there's a level of intellectual engagement that happens at a university campus that doesn't happen at like a high school campus. It's not to say I didn't have brilliant colleagues and phenomenal students who were pushing me intellectually, but there was a piece that I felt like that I realized I was missing from being on the university campus. And so I thought about it and kind of looked around and decided to stick with East Carolina University to go back and work on my master's while I was continuing to teach, to get back into some of those academic conversations. And I was coming to get involved with different research projects and things like that. And so it was just a way for me to keep that type of thing going. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:03:35]: And that was really my drive to. That sent me back to grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:39]: Well, you just mentioned that you stayed on at East Carolina University and getting a Master of Arts in Education in English. And I guess one of the questions that I have is taking you back to when you made that decision that you were going to continue on. There are a lot of different Master of Arts programs that are out there, lots of different English programs that are out there. You chose to go back to your undergraduate institution to be able to get that degree. Talk to me about that decision making process for yourself. Maybe what you were looking for in a degree and what made you ultimately choose to stay at the same university for your master's. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:04:16]: There are a ton of options. And within North Carolina, there are phenomenal schools and colleges of education that I could have selected from and still been on that wonderful in state tuition that they had there at that time. I decided to stay with East Carolina because of the faculty. There was one particular faculty within English education that I had already kind of been doing a little bit of work with. And it was somebody that we had a lot of similar interests and connections. And so for me, that was my driving force. For staying with ECU was. His name's Dr. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:04:44]: Todd Finley. Really interesting work that he does with different types of emotional awareness and technology and looking how technology is influencing ed. And I wanted to continue my work with him. And so really it was about really the faculty and the faculty's research interests that kind of made me want to stay there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: Now you stayed at East Carolina, got your degree, and at some point during that point in time, you made a big shift in deciding to completely move outside of teaching at the K12 level to going beyond. And you decided to apply for PhD programs. Talk to me about that decision for yourself. And you ultimately decided to go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Again, lots of PhD programs that are out there. So talk to me about that decision making process as well. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:05:33]: Absolutely. Just like going to get my Master's, I wasn't planning to get a PhD. I wasn't planning to go in those directions. But as I was working on my master's, as I mentioned, I was becoming more involved in research projects and I was getting more and more into that. And I really loved teaching. I loved the school I was at. I kept saying, like, I don't know why they're paying me for this. I just feel like I'm coming and playing and being a nerd about literature and writing. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:05:54]: And so for me, teaching was. It was a lot of play. It was just a lot of fun for me. But I remember one morning I got to my classroom early and I was working on one of the research projects I was doing with Dr. Finley. And the bell rang for students to come in. And my thought was, I really wish it was like a work day or something so I can keep working on this research project. And that kind of made me sit back at my desk and go, wait. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:06:18]: Like, I really like these students. I really love what I'm doing, but I'm wishing my students weren't here today so I could do this. And that kind of made me go, okay, I need to. What is my future? What is my path forward? And so at that point, it became that search of, okay, I think I need to go get a doctorate, Because I'm starting to get really into the research. And I was starting to facilitate professional development opportunities for teachers. And so getting into some of that teacher education piece, I was getting really interested in that. So it's kind of seeing, seeing the writing on the wall for my future. As I started to look at schools, I spent probably a year or two looking at different programs. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:06:53]: As I was finishing up my master's and just trying to figure out which is going to be the right program for me. It started out with a national search, and I started looking at. I think I was looking at Stanford, Arizona State, and then Chapel Hill came in as one of my selections to figure out which program was best for me. I worked very closely with Dr. Finley and said, hey, help me figure this out, because I need to figure out where. Where's the right spot? And so he had insights about schools, and he also reached out to his network to say, hey, I've got this student. Here's what they're interested in. What do you think? And so it helped me narrow it down. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:07:26]: And for me, landing at Chapel Hill, it was ultimately, I really liked the work they were doing there. And once again, looking at the faculty that are there, I think, especially for a doctorate program, that is a critical piece of seeing. Are there faculty there who can advance the things that you're curious about? Can they take you to where you want to be? I was interested in technology, but really wanted to look more at the sociological aspects of technology and kind of, what do they mean beyond their immediate usage? And there are some phenomenal faculty at UNC Chapel Hill who are really looking at some of those sociocultural underpinnings of education and approaching technology in that same kind of way that wasn't super technocentric, but much more a sociological approach. And so that's really kind of what led me to Chapel Hill as well as just some guidance advisor. Dr. Finley's wife commented to me one time about my social support network and being connected with groups that I was connected with in North Carolina. And how, from her perspective, she said, this seems like a very important thing for you. Is that something you're willing to just give up and move? And I was like, that's a. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:08:27]: That's a really good point. And so it was a lot of different things that drove me to Chapel Hill. And going from one in state school to the flagship was. Was a little bit of a pain in my ECU Pirate heart to become a Chapel Hill Tar Heel, but it was absolutely worth it and wouldn't have traded it for anything. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: With all of those different degrees, there are transitions that you go through. There's transitions from your going from undergrad to your master's degree for your master's degree to your doctorate degree. At each level, there are different expectations, different perspectives, different things that faculty are going to expect of you as a student, as a learner, and as you think back to the graduate school, experiences that you had and you think about those transitions for yourself. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into those different programs, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:09:22]: I think it becomes a staggered piece through my master's program. It was about just kind of really working closely with my advisor in that he very quickly saw where I was going and was starting to tailor things for me to kind of shape the master's degree in a way that was going to help me get to my eventual goals. So I think working closely with him and just kind of going through the process of that master's program was. Was big and really taking advantage of different opportunities that were there with the opportunities to. To research as well as do my own research for my thesis, and then present that both at conferences as well as at different things on campus, just to kind of help, kind of share my work and get my work out there and practice some of that, I think, was really big. And so I was presenting a whole lot and starting to wr pieces and articles in collaboration with Dr. Finley, as well as writing up my thesis work for publication. And so those things, I think, are really important to take advantage of, because I think those are things that are often on the side, but can be a really important piece because it gets you plugged into those larger professional networks and kind of get your name and work out there, which is really important at the doctorate level. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:10:28]: If I thought that my relationship with my advisor was important to my master's, like, that was a great, lovely thing to have that phenomenal relationship with Dr. Finley. Having a good relationship with my advisor through my doctorate program was absolutely critical. And while we didn't always have things as aligned, Dr. Cheryl Mason Bullock is an amazing scholar and was such a phenomenal advisor. And working closely with her and following her guidance on things was really, really important. One of the things that I think, which Cheryl didn't always like because she was very optimistic, and she felt like I brought a realism that it made her a little bit uncomfortable at times. But Dr. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:11:06]: Finley's wife from East Carolina had commented to me about how difficult it was for her to watch Todd go through his doctorate program and just some of the emotional toll that learning at that kind of level can take. And so for me, that was something that constantly played in my mind. And I shared that with Cheryl. And she. I think she's kind of like Mary Poppins, just always positive and practically perfect in every way. And so me saying, like, oh, yeah, like, I'M going to get broken, I'm going to feel down, I'm going to do those things. But that's also nor. And part of this extreme growth that I'm going through in such a short span. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:11:40]: And so for me, keeping those kinds of things in mind were really important that when working on a graduate degree you are going to be pushed, you are going to be stretched to your intellectual limit. And that. That can be really difficult. Growth is always a difficult, painful process. But being able to recognize that that is what's happening. This is hard, this is difficult. I'm having doubts, but that's because I'm growing so much that I'm having these things and that this is a normal thing that. And so for me, that normalized it. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:12:09]: Whenever I would have those moments of doubt and go, okay, wait, no, this is just. It's part of the process. It's part of that growth. And I think that was an important thing, at least for me to keep in mind that it otherwise I would just go insular and say I'm just not cut out for this versus this is just part of the process. And so I think that things like that are important. And then also building community with the cohort that I was in my doctorate with, it was a rigorous thing that we were all in together. And so having community within that cohort was really, really important just for social morale and things like that to kind of get through. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:44]: You know, one of the other things that comes to mind after hearing you say that is that I think every student that goes into a graduate program, not only do they go through these transitions, but they also go through mindset shifts as it comes to the way in which they learn, ways in which they have to process, et cetera. Talk to me about the mindset shifts that you had to make to be able to successful in graduate school. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:13:10]: I think that for part of it with undergrad, a lot of my. I think we see this with our undergrads as well and that sometimes it's. It's about compliance. Why am I in these classes? Well, because I'm supposed to be. Let me jump the hoop. It started within my master's program. I can still think of times when I definitely was hoop jumping. But then as I was getting to the doctorate program, it very much became about the grade doesn't matter. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:13:31]: Being somebody who gets that spot, it's really hard to say the grade doesn't matter, but really the grade doesn't matter. What's more important is what is my own growth? How am I seeing my work, am I happy with what I'm producing? And if I'm happy with it and it doesn't make an A or whatever the university is using as an equivalent of an A, does that actually matter? When really it's about my own growth and my own journey. As you were saying earlier, it's about, how is this preparing me, what am I getting from it? And that trying to make the most of every opportunity. I had some classmates who would look in some of our courses and kind of go, this is just a waste of time. It's like, okay, if that's your perspective of it, then yes, this will absolutely be a waste... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38049980

Realities of Grad School: Writing, Balance, and Support with Amanda Seney 09/08/2025

Realities of Grad School: Writing, Balance, and Support with Amanda Seney Are you thinking about graduate school, or perhaps already navigating its hills and valleys? The latest episode of Victors in Grad School is a must-listen for anyone considering this transformative step. sits down with Amanda Seney, the Writing Center Academic Program Specialist at the University of Michigan-Flint, who shares her unique path through higher education and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Amanda’s story is one of perseverance, growth, and self-discovery. After a significant gap between starting and finishing her undergraduate studies, Amanda returned to academia more determined than ever. She didn’t just finish her degree—she flourished, embracing the experience by double-majoring and then moving seamlessly into a graduate program. For Amanda, the decision to pursue graduate studies wasn’t just about credentials; it was about personal growth and opening new doors, even when the destination was unknown. Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school, Amanda noticed a significant shift in expectations—not just from instructors, but from herself. She discusses the journey from following directions to taking initiative, where research projects became opportunities for self-direction and exploration. Amanda shares how this process required greater personal accountability, self-advocacy, and time management—skills that don’t just make for successful students, but for resilient professionals. A recurring theme in Amanda’s reflection is the presence of “imposter syndrome” and self-doubt—a feeling familiar to almost every grad student. Her advice? Lean on support systems, whether it’s faculty, peers, or campus resources. Amanda credits her relationships with instructors and the collaborative atmosphere at UM-Flint as key to overcoming her doubts and achieving her goals. For non-traditional students balancing family, work, and school, Amanda is candid about the struggles of finding balance and sets realistic expectations: it’s not about perfection, but doing your best with the support you have. Perhaps most eye-opening is Amanda’s emphasis on the importance of revision in graduate-level writing, advocating for multiple drafts and peer feedback. She reminds us that writing well is a process—and seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness. As Amanda’s story reveals, graduate school is not just an academic pursuit, but a journey of self-discovery, resilience, and community. If you’re pondering this path, want practical tips, or just need encouragement, tune in to this enlightening episode. Amanda’s journey isn’t just inspiring—it’s a roadmap for anyone aspiring to thrive in grad school. Take a listen and equip yourself for your own victorious journey in graduate school! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, to be able to learn from others in their experiences to help you in the journey that you're on. It truly is a journey because no matter where you are, there are things that you can do along the path to be able to prepare you, as well as to help you to find success as you go through that experience for yourself. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can talk about the graduate school journey that they had for themselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: Things that worked, things that maybe didn't work, things that they learned along the way that can give you some tools for your own toolbox and help you on the journey that you're on. This week, we got another great guest. Amanda Senti is with us today. And Amanda is the Writing Center Academic Program Specialist at the University of Michigan, Flint. She works with graduate students on writing and helps them with the journey into being a graduate school writer. Because it is different. It is different in that journey from undergrad to grad, there are different expectations. Not only expectations from faculty, but expectations you have to put on yourself as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: And Amanda is here to help students along that pathway. And she learned a lot of the things that she's helping students with in her own journey. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own experience and to have her share some of those today. Amanda, thanks so much for being here today. Amanda Seney [00:01:58]: Well, thank you so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: Now, I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point, at some point in that journey, you made a choice. You made a decision that you wanted to continue on. You wanted to get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point and tell me more about that decision and why you made that decision to continue your education. Amanda Seney [00:02:23]: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that is kind of a long story. I guess I should say that I started undergrad right after high school, but I had also gotten married at the same time. And my husband was in the military. We were out of state. There was a lot going on. Amanda Seney [00:02:35]: And then we had kids, and I was not able to finish my undergrad at that time. And so I had a very long gap in between when I first started and then when I came back to finish. It was about 14 years before I came back to U of M to finish my undergrad. So then I started, and I think I had something like 90 some credits that I. I brought with me. I transferred in. And so I really could have finished fairly quickly. But I was so much enjoying the undergraduate experience and I was learning so much about myself and just about the world in general that I thought, well, okay, while I'm here, I also think, I think I'll do a double major because I'm not done with this undergrad stuff yet. Amanda Seney [00:03:13]: And so I decided, okay, I'm going to do a double major. And so that extended my time a little bit. And I think it ended up being about two and a half years to finish my undergrad. But then I still just didn't feel like I was done because I was growing so much, just so much as an individual, as a member of society, as a. As an employee that I wasn't ready to be done yet. And I wanted to see what I could do at a graduate level. And so I just decided to make that kind of seamless transition at the time since I was kind of in the swing of school anyway at that point. So that was why I decided to keep going. Amanda Seney [00:03:43]: And I just thought it would open more doors for me. I didn't know what those doors were going to be, but I wanted to see where it would go. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:49]: So you went to that undergraduate degree. You made the decision to go to graduate school. As a lot of students do, they have to figure out for themselves what's the best program, program. Where should I go? You made a decision to stay at the University of Michigan Flint to go into a graduate program in English language and literature and continue your education there. Talk to me about that process for yourself and that decision for yourself. And what made you decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Amanda Seney [00:04:18]: Well, partly it was. I just really like the university. For one thing. I know that we have so many support system, and at that point I was familiar with so many of the resources. I also really liked the campus job that I had, which was working at the writing center. And I knew I could continue doing that because it is a great place and I love it and I wanted to be able to stay there. So that was part of the draw for the University of Michigan. I mean, honestly, goodness, it's just the quality of instruction is so high because I have been in other places, and they were also very good. Amanda Seney [00:04:45]: But I really like what I had seen here. I liked that I knew they were going to be smaller class sizes so that I could continue those relationships that I had built with instructors. There was just so much with that now. Why the English language and literature in particular? I knew I wanted something in the humanities because I figured that's just what's close to my heart, and that's where I wanted to go, I guess. And I was also definitely working on creative writing at the time. And so that English language and literature gave me a lot more opportunity to do creative projects, which was important to me at that time, period. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]: So every student that goes to graduate school has to make a transition. I mentioned at the beginning that there's transition in expectations and how you're taught, but also there's transitions in how you have to write, how you have to think, how you have to process. There's a lot of different ways of learning that happens as you go into graduate school and go through graduate school. Talk to me about those transitions for yourself. Because you found success, you got through the degree, you went through that process. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey? Amanda Seney [00:05:52]: I think one of the big things was it was a mental transition for me because in undergrad, you're used to doing what other people are telling you to do in order to get the degree. And like you, the instructor tells you what they want to see and you do that. And there is a lot of that in graduate school, too, but there's a lot more also of, well, you tell me what you want to do. I felt like. And so those research projects became very much, well, what are you interested in? And it was a challenge for me at the time to kind of get into that mindset of, oh, no, this is. I am making these decisions, and like, this is on me. And whatever that decision is, it's not good or bad or whatever. It's just whatever I decide, that's the direction we're going. Amanda Seney [00:06:31]: So there was that level of. I don't even know what you call it, like a personal accountability or you're deciding for yourself. You're very much more in charge of a lot more aspects of it. So there was that. There was also. I mean, one of the big transitions for me was that projects got bigger. I was very used to being able to do things at the last minute, which is what you end up doing as Many of the non traditional students know, right, there's not a lot of time and so things get pushed back and other things take priority often. And I could not do that the way that I had been used to doing. Amanda Seney [00:07:00]: And so that was a transition to try and make a better job of balancing things out and leaving myself time to do the things that needed to get done. And then there was also a little bit more of a transition to being able to advocate more for myself on those times when life really did get in the way and I could not get the things done to being able to go to the instructor and say, hey, I'm really sorry, but this is the situation. Is there a way we can work together and still make this thing happen? So that level of self advocacy and then whether they said yes or no, you know, that wasn't the point. It was really just being able to go to them, one professional, one adult to another, and say, hey, what can we do here? I think that was a big one to be able to look at the instructors not as this authority figure from on high necessarily, but as someone who we are working towards being in a professional relationship in a sense, like I am going into this scholarly community and I would like to be a co worker in a sense rather than this authority situation. And there's a lot more collaboration available in those areas. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:57]: A lot of students have told me that they face imposter syndrome as they go through that graduate school journey, that they have to hit it face on and they have to figure out for themselves, how do I deal with not only that imposter syndrome of saying, am I good enough? Should I be here? But also there's self doubt as you go through that program that you have to tackle as well. Talk to me about that for yourself and how that showed up for you in your own graduate study and how did you handle it? Amanda Seney [00:08:31]: Oh, goodness, 100% okay. Wow. I guess part of that was like I was used to dealing that with that from undergrad because again, because there was such a big gap between when I started and when I went back. And so I was very much a non traditional student. I'm a first generation student. My people don't do this. I really didn't know what to expect. And that was bad enough at undergrad, but then we went into the graduate level and we have like no level of familiarity with what any of this looks like. Amanda Seney [00:08:56]: So that was very intimidating. So how did I deal with that? So again, as I mentioned, right, because I had been in undergrad and because I was trying to use the resources available to me and the class sizes and all that. That I did have pretty solid relationships with several instructors who were always very, very encouraging and were willing to listen to me and just they always believed more in me and my abilities than what I believed in me and my abilities. And they were just excellent supports for that and for. Even when I didn't necessarily feel like I was, well, I didn't know what I was doing, but when I really felt like I didn't know what I was doing, they were there to be like, oh no, you're good, everybody feels this way and just keep going and you're going to be fine. So there was that, I guess so reaching out to the people around me as much as possible. I was also doing the graduate work. Some of this was still in like post Covid and so a lot of the classes were online. Amanda Seney [00:09:45]: I didn't have a lot of the face to face connections with other students. That would have been nice. I imagine if you have a cohort like I know a lot of the programs do, that would have been a massive way to deal with that, to be able to talk it through with people going through the same thing, literally the same thing with you at the same time. But other than that, it was really just trusting the process and going forward and taking those pieces of ownership where I could and being able to step back and say, you know what, I did do a really good job on that. That was a pretty cool thing. Look at me, maybe I am in the right place. A lot of self forgiveness had to happen in some ways. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:19]: Now you also mentioned you were married, you had kids, you were balancing a lot of different things as you were going not only through the undergraduate work, but also as you continued on through that graduate degree. Talk to me about balance. How did you balance school, work, family, other responsibilities while in graduate school? Amanda Seney [00:10:40]: Largely I did it poorly, I would say. Now I was in a sit where my kids were a little older, so they were able to do a lot of things on their own. They didn't need as much from me. I can't imagine doing this with young children. Like you would have to be really truly on the ball with a lot of things. And that impresses me so much. Yeah. So those of you out there doing that, you are awesome. Amanda Seney [00:11:01]: I mean, I did have a lot of support. My husband was very supportive. So he would pick up some slack where he could and then the kids were very much on board with now this is okay, Mom's got to go do this Right now. So we're going to leave her alone for now and then we'll come back later and we'll talk and do this right. Tried to carve out those times of, yes, I am available, yes, I am part of your life, but for this piece of time, no, I am not. And just to set some of those boundaries, I think was where we did. And then also so far as balance, like being able to step back and say, okay, maybe we don't take so many credits this time because there's been so much going on, looking at the realities of family life and other work life and things like that, and saying it's time to just take a little bit of a breather. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: You definitely need those breathers every once in a while. And having someone that can support you along the way is really important. Having those support systems in place is so important. Did you find as you were going through your graduate experience that you were able to build relationships with faculty or peers that were especially impactful in supporting you in this journey yourself? And if so, how were they supportive? And what did you learn about building those relationships that could help others in thinking about the support systems that they need? Amanda Seney [00:12:18]: I think I already mentioned that I did have pretty close relationships with several instructors because I had taken so many of their classes at that point. So how were those supportive at that point? Because we had the relationship, like they knew my situation and I knew some of their situation and we kind of knew each other's interests even, right? So they could be like, hey, I was thinking this thing, what do you think? I ended up on a separate project, that it was a grant funded project actually, because of a relationship that I had with another professor. And she was like, hey, here's some thoughts I have on this thing. Would you be interested in being part of this? And I said, yeah, that sounds awesome. So that was like, that was super cool just being. They were so supportive of whatever my interest was because we had that relationship. And so we were willing to be like, well, this is not exactly where I thought that project was going to go. But yeah, okay, let's see where it goes. Amanda Seney [00:13:05]: Because I trusted their advice and they trusted where I was at. So there was that in a lot of ways. And then also when I did need flexibility, could I have a couple extra days for this due date? You know, I'll get it to you before you start your grading on Monday, because I know that you start your grading on Monday. Then they were more likely to be like, yeah, okay, that's, you know, get it to me by this time, and then that'll be fine. So there was a lot of that with peers. I would say, yes, I did. And that was partly because we were taking some of the same classes together. And then we got, we did get to have some of that. Amanda Seney [00:13:33]: Not a cohort relationship, I don't think, but some of that talking about the different things we've been reading and talking about those things and everybody feeling the imposter syndrome and being able to say, do you feel this? Yes, yes, I do. Oh, good. It's not just me, you know, just a lot of the. It's not just me and being able to geek out on ridiculous literature things. We just had a lot of fun. So being able to find somebody where it's. You can enjoy what you're going through I think is hugely important. How to go about that. Amanda Seney [00:14:01]: I think I stumbled into most of mine. I will be honest, I'm not like a naturally social person. And so it's more of a. They probably pursued me more than I did them. I had to learn to trust a lot of people in ways that I hadn't been comfortable with. And that, I mean, that was a good thing, right? So being discerning, but being able to open up to, oh, this person really does think I'm kind of okay. And like, we really are enjoying the same... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38049880

Scott Roy Shares the Realities and Rewards of Graduate School 09/01/2025

Scott Roy Shares the Realities and Rewards of Graduate School Are you considering graduate school or already planning your path forward? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School,” hosted by , is a must-listen for anyone pondering the next academic step. This week’s guest, Scott Roy—Registrar at the University of Michigan-Flint and graduate of both UM-Flint (undergraduate) and Eastern Michigan University (graduate)—shares a candid, relatable perspective on what it takes to succeed in graduate school and beyond. The Many Paths to Graduate School Scott’s journey reminds us that there’s no single route to grad school. Originally envisioning a law career, he pivoted to history after discovering his passion. This decision wasn’t made lightly; he evaluated the available programs in Michigan, taking into account not only program content but also logistical factors like proximity to family and program structure. Scott’s story highlights how practical considerations (such as avoiding an extensive thesis in favor of a final exam) and personal life (being close to his partner) can shape academic choices. Graduate School Is a Different Beast One of the strongest themes in the episode is the significant jump in academic rigor and expectations at the graduate level. Scott describes being “a deer in the headlights” during his first semester—faced with daunting reading lists and heavier workloads, often while juggling a job. His advice? Go in prepared for a step up in both self-discipline and time management. The episode offers heartfelt reassurance that feeling overwhelmed is normal, and that students do eventually adapt and find their rhythm. Finding Balance and the Importance of Support Scott is candid about the challenges of balancing work, school, and personal relationships—and about sometimes falling short. He urges prospective grad students to carve out space for self-care, mental health, and social connection. Loneliness can be a reality, especially with night classes and busy schedules, but joining campus organizations and building relationships with peers and professors can make the journey less isolating. Skills for Life, Not Just for a Job Description Even though Scott ultimately found his career path outside of museums and history, he credits his graduate studies with teaching him valuable skills—like research, problem solving, and personal growth—that enhanced his qualifications and shaped his perspective. It’s a reminder that grad school is about much more than a degree. Whether you’re just thinking about grad school or already on your way, this episode is packed with wisdom, encouragement, and practical advice. Tune in to “Victors in Grad School” to hear Scott’s full story and gather the fuel you need for your own journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to have an opportunity to sit down, to talk to you, to work with you as you are going through this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every person that is thinking about graduate school has to go through a journey for themselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:40]: Whether you are at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about whether grad school is right for you, or you are applying right now, or maybe you've already applied and gotten accepted, There are many different places in this journey where you can do things to make the experience even easier. And then as you get into graduate school, there are things that you can do to be able to make yourself even more successful. That's what this podcast is all about. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you to allow for you an opportunity to be able to gain some tools for your own toolbox, but also allow for you to be able to prepare yourself a little bit better for the graduate school journey that you're on and that you will be on in the future. This week we've got another great guest. Scott Roy is with us today, and Scott works at the University of Michigan, Flint in the office of the Registrar. And Scott did his undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint, and then he went off and got a graduate degree in history at Eastern Michigan University. We're going to be talking about his own educational journey and allowing you to learn a little bit more from him. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]: And I'm really excited to have him here. Scott, thanks so much for being here today. Scott Roy [00:02:04]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]: It is my pleasure having you here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk to you. I mentioned the fact that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point, at some point in that journey, going through your undergraduate work, you made a choice. You made a choice that you wanted to continue your education. Take me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head as you figured out for yourself that graduate school was the next step. Scott Roy [00:02:35]: So I actually started my undergraduate degree not knowing what I wanted to do. I went into my Undergraduate thinking. I was going to go to law school. And then as I was choosing a major for my bachelor's degree, my advisor had recommended either English or history because he said a lot of law students chose those as their majors. So I went with history because that's the topic that I've always enjoyed. My family and I, we've always visited battlefields on vacation. We were Civil War reenactors. So history was just my thing. Scott Roy [00:03:05]: So I selected history. And about maybe two years or so into my degree, I decided that I didn't really want to be a lawyer. And so I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did actually decide that I wanted to do something in the history field. So I went to grad school with the idea of either becoming a professor or doing something in museums. So when I got to be about a junior, I started looking at different schools. There were only four schools in the state of Michigan that had history programs at the graduate level. So I was between Central Michigan University and Eastern. Scott Roy [00:03:40]: I ended up going down to Eastern. And then actually when I got to Eastern, I found out really that my niche was going into museums. So when I was at Eastern, my degree was in. But I also got a graduate certificate in Cultural Museum Studies. During that time, I was an intern down at the Historical Museum down in Monroe. And I got to do a lot of cool things down there. I got to lead tours, and I got to create different exhibits, do a lot of the curatorship at the museum there. And I realized that was kind of what I wanted to do with my life. Scott Roy [00:04:13]: So I stayed through graduate school, went through, got my master's, spent a couple years actually after graduate school trying to find a job and in the history field. And so I started out, right out of grad school. I started working at apartments. I was actually a leasing consultant leasing apartments. I did end up getting a job in a museum for about four years up in Frankenmuth. There's a military museum that I was a curator at. And then eventually, once I kind of settled down and I started to have kids and have a family, decided that I needed a more stable job. That's one thing I found actually, in my field is that museum jobs aren't always very stable. Scott Roy [00:04:51]: They depend on millages and grants and different fundraising. And so I decided at that point that I needed to find something more stable. That's how I ended up at U of M Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: So, Scott, you mentioned the fact that you looked at a number of different schools when you were deciding on where you wanted to go to graduate school and you ultimately chose to go to Eastern Michigan University. Bring me back to that point. And when you were looking at different schools, what were you looking for and what made Eastern the right fit for you? Scott Roy [00:05:19]: So, so I originally was planning on going to U of M Flint actually for grad school because that's where I had gone for my undergrad. But like I said before, there were only four schools in the state that had a history degree and I knew that's what I wanted to pursue. U of M, Ann Arbor was an option. I didn't really look a whole lot at that. Part of the reason was because that they required 100 page thesis. I realized that I didn't want to necessarily get my doctorate degree. And those thesis tracks were more for students that were pursuing a doctorate. Eastern and Central had options where rather than writing the thesis, you could take an exam. Scott Roy [00:05:56]: And so I chose Eastern partly because you could take the exam, but also because my wife at the time, she was my girlfriend, but we ended up getting engaged. She got a job down in Metro Detroit. So if I was up at Central, I was going to be several hours away. Being down at Eastern, I could be closer to her. So that was an easy choice for me and I'm glad that I chose the route that I did. So Eastern, I ended up taking a four hour exam. They gave me a list of 40 books during my last semester and I had to go through and basically memorize the arguments made in these books. And then I had to do a four hour exam about a historiography on it. Scott Roy [00:06:32]: So that's, that's why I chose Eastern was because I absolutely hate writing. The thought of writing 100 pages sounded nauseating to me. So I decided I wanted to do the four hour exam based on the books. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:43]: You know, everyone that makes a transition into graduate school has to go through, as I mentioned, a transition. There is a difference in the way that you're educated at the undergraduate level. And then when you get to the graduate level, you have to kind of figure that out for yourself. Talk to me about that transition for you. When you went from undergrad into grad school, what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school? And then what did you have to do to maintain that success as you continued throughout your graduate school experience? Scott Roy [00:07:19]: So one thing that I will definitely tell you is that graduate school is a totally different beast than undergraduate school. Undergraduate school, you might have an assignment where you have to write five or 10 page paper and you might have a couple weeks. When I went into graduate school, I might have a class on Tuesday and I was expected to read a four or five hundred page book by like Thursday and have a paper done on it. So I remember my first semester of graduate school. I was like a deer in the headlights. The amount of work was totally different than what I had expected and that took a lot of getting used to. And on top of that, most graduate students, myself included, you have jobs as well. So I was working at the museum in Monroe part time, about 30 hours a week. Scott Roy [00:08:01]: So the workload itself was a lot more intense and that took some getting used to. The other things that I really had to adapt to was actually was loneliness. So being a grad student, I actually had an apartment on campus. It was just a studio apartment. I was by myself. I decided I didn't want to have a roommate because I wanted to be able to focus on studying. And looking back on that, I may have done that differently. One thing that I've found is a lot of graduate students, you don't see them on campus except for at night. Scott Roy [00:08:31]: Most of them have day jobs. I had a lot of classes with teachers who were taking night classes. So you didn't necessarily build the friendships that I built as an undergraduate. A lot of the students who were in class, they came from work, they went to their class and then they went home because it was 9 o' clock at night. So you didn't necessarily have the camaraderie that you had as an undergraduate. So I struggled with that to an extent. The fact that sometimes it could be a little bit lonely being in a city an hour from home, not necessarily knowing a lot of people. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:00]: On a personal level, sometimes students tell me that they face imposter syndrome as they go through graduate school. There's a feeling that they get into a program and they, they don't feel like they know everything that they should know or that they're prepared in the way that they need to be prepared. Did you ever feel that way? Did you ever feel and face that imposter syndrome or self doubt for yourself in graduate studies? And if so, how did you handle it? Scott Roy [00:09:26]: I guess to an extent, I've always been a good student as an undergraduate, so I wasn't necessarily worried about not being successful. But again, like I said, the workload the first semester, I didn't know how I was going to get through it. But then you start to realize, hey, you know what, I can do this. And you start to communicate with other students. In your class and they're able to help guide you through things and give you advice on how to be successful. And I mean, if you ever have problems, talk to the instructors. That's one thing I've found is a lot of times the instructors are more than willing to reach out to you because they know that you're a good student. Typically, if you're in graduate school, you have what it takes to succeed. Scott Roy [00:10:00]: Your professors know that you're a hard worker, otherwise you wouldn't be there. So I would say that if you ever have an issue to reach out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:06]: To them, every student has to find their path for themselves. They have to figure out for themselves how to balance all of the different hats that they wear, whether it's your academic hat, that hat that you wear when you're working. As you mentioned that you had that part time job that you were working down at the museum, you have your personal relationships, your friends, et cetera. So talk to me about balance and what did you have to do to be able to balance all of those competing needs of others and needs for yourself in regards to what you had signed up to do in graduate school? And how did you handle that for yourself? How did you balance that for yourself? Scott Roy [00:10:48]: So actually one thing I wish I would have done better is learn a little bit more balance in graduate school. So I felt wore out by the end of it. I would get up sometimes, I had to be at work by 8:30 and where I worked was about almost an hour drive from the campus. So I had to get up pretty early to do that. And then I wouldn't get home sometimes till, you know, five or six o' clock and then I'd be doing homework. So it didn't come encompassed a lot of your life. I would make sure that I saw my girlfriend usually on the weekends. And then beyond that, one thing I wish I had done a better job of, so this is my advice to you, is make sure that you take the time to, I guess, take care of yourself, both mentally and physically. Scott Roy [00:11:27]: One thing I found in grad school is I ended up gaining like 30 or 40 pounds by the time I was done with grad school. And a lot of it was on me. I just didn't have the drive anymore to make sure I got to the fitness center. It's very hard to do when you're working and you're studying and you've been at it all day to find the time to make sure that you go to the rec center and make sure that you do the exercises and stuff that you need. I wish I had spent more time doing that. But beyond that, I guess you just kind of struggle through it for a little bit and then you find yourself out on the other side in a couple of years. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:57]: I know the work that you're doing right now may not be in the museum field, it may not be in the history field, but you're doing great work here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And as you go through graduate school, it does change some of the ways that you think, process, consider things. How do you find that graduate school changed the way that you think or work or approach problems or life in general? Scott Roy [00:12:23]: So even though I'm not in my field, a lot of the skills that I learned in graduate school are skills that I've been able to take with me into the workplace. A big one for me, I would say being a history major, I know how to research. I mean, if you give me a topic, I can usually find the answer. I know what resources to look into, and that's been very helpful in my day to day activities at the workplace. Beyond that, I do think having my master's degree actually helped me get my job. So even though my job is not in the history field, working on a college campus is pretty hard to get into. And I think the fact that I had a master's degree helped set me apart from other candidates and helped give me that interview. So even though I'm not working in my field, I do think that having the graduate degree was important. Scott Roy [00:13:07]: And then it also, I guess, kind of helped me decide what things are important and my life. So, I mean, I could work in a museum. If I went and lived down in metro Detroit, I could get a job at the Henry Ford or somewhere down there. But I decided that, you know, I wanted to be close to my family. My family lives in the Genesee county area. This is where I've always been since I grew up. When I was a kid, I wanted my kids to know their grandparents and to know their family. So I think graduate school helped me mature in that aspect and kind of figure out what was important to me in life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:39]: So as you look back at your graduate education and you think about other individuals that are thinking about going to graduate school for themselves, what are some tips that you might offer them that would help them find success sooner? Scott Roy [00:13:52]: First off, be prepared for the increase in the workload. I would say, to make sure that you have a good support system. Make sure that you take time to be involved in activities on campus. There were a couple of clubs that I joined just so that I got to know some people. I would recommend that just finding different ways to be involved so that you do have a good graduate experience and do get to know other people on the campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:14]: Well Scott, I just want to say thanks. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey and I truly wish you all the best. Scott Roy [00:14:21]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:22]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37922945

Real Talk: The Challenges & Rewards of Graduate School 08/25/2025

Real Talk: The Challenges & Rewards of Graduate School Are you considering graduate school, currently enrolled, or maybe just accepted? No matter where you are in your academic journey, the transition into graduate studies is filled with both challenges and opportunities. That’s the theme at the heart of this week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School,” where sits down with , the Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Students at the University of Michigan, Flint, to unpack her path from bachelor’s to master’s to earning a PhD. Changing Directions and Embracing New Opportunities Dr. Snyder’s story is a powerful reminder that it’s okay to change direction. Originally planning to attend law school, she found herself drawn to the world of student affairs thanks to a mentor’s guidance—even at the last minute. Her advice for those making similar choices is simple and clear: don’t get boxed in by traditional timelines or expectations. Sometimes, taking the road less traveled leads to the most fulfilling outcomes. Transition and Mindset Shifts in Graduate School One of the main themes discussed is the significant mindset shift required in graduate studies. The workload becomes more rigorous and independent. Impostor syndrome is real, especially when it feels like you’re surrounded by “geniuses”—but, as Dr. Snyder notes, hard work, not innate brilliance, is the ultimate key to success. She emphasizes acknowledging your struggles and leaning on your peers, admitting you can’t (and shouldn’t) do it all alone. The Power of Mentorship and Peer Support Mentorship and support systems are fundamental. Dr. Snyder credits mentors with helping her identify opportunities—including her eventual career pivot—and prioritize demands when all tasks seem equally urgent. She also stresses the importance of relying on your peers, sharing resources, and working together, especially when preparing for comprehensive exams or tackling difficult coursework. Balancing Life, Work, and Academics Dr. Snyder also addresses the balancing act required in grad school: managing coursework, work obligations, family, friends, and personal well-being. It’s not easy, but she assures listeners it’s possible by knowing your priorities, using time management strategies, and, crucially, not losing sight of what you love outside of academics. Final Thoughts If you’re seeking inspiration and practical advice for your graduate journey, this episode is packed with candid stories and actionable insights. Dr. Snyder’s honesty about the ups and downs, her encouragement to pursue opportunities, and her message that “it is all doable” make this a must-listen for any current or aspiring grad student. Ready for more wisdom, support, and real talk about surviving and thriving in grad school? Be sure to tune in to this episode of “Victors in Grad School,” and join the ongoing conversation about success, support, and self-discovery in graduate education. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey. As you are considering graduate school, you're looking at graduate school. Maybe you've applied and you're and gotten accepted. Maybe you're getting ready to start. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: No matter where you are, you are truly on a journey. Because no matter if you are at the very beginning just starting to think about it, you're in graduate school or maybe you see that light at the end of the tunnel, there are things that you can do all the way through this journey to be able to prepare yourself and to help yourself be more successful in the journey itself. That's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to talk with you, to work with you as you are going through this journey, to be able to provide you with some, I'm going to call them, tools for your toolbox to help you to think about things in a little bit different way. We do that by introducing you to people that have gone before you. They've gone to graduate school, they've been successful, and they have had the opportunity to be able to learn some things along the way. Maybe positive, maybe negative, you never know. But we. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: But today we got another great guest. Dr. Julie Snyder is with with us today. And Dr. Snyder is the Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Students at the University of Michigan, Flint. And Julie has three different degrees. So we're going to be talking about the journey that she went on from getting that bachelor's degree to that master's, that doctorate, and kind of learning along the way. So I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: Julie, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:01:41]: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor just to have the opportunity to share life experiences with graduate students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:47]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to talk to you as well. And I guess first and foremost, what I'd love to do is be able to go back in time because I know that you did your bachelor's degree at Duquesne University, and during that experience, I'm guessing based on the fact that you got a bachelor's in political science and then knowing what you got your master's degree in, I'm guessing you got a little involved in that undergraduate experience and you made A choice to go on and get a master's degree in student affairs and higher education. And I guess. Take me back to that point. Go back in time. Take me back to that moment, that moment that you figured out for yourself that the next step for you was graduate school. What was going through your head and what made you choose that graduate school was that next step? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:02:32]: Well, I actually went to Duquesne with the intention of pursuing a professional degree. It was. I wanted to go to law school. And so that next step was always in. In my mindset. And Duquesne ran a program where you could start law school in your senior year of your undergraduate degree. And so I was also. I grew up in the Detroit area, so I picked a campus that was far from home in its location in Pittsburgh. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:02:57]: And so while I was there as a student, I took a. At a law firm while getting involved on campus. And it was very late in my senior year, and it was the night before the lsat, and I was at an event, so I was involved in campus activities, and I was at an event and just really struggling with this idea that I didn't want to go to law school, that it didn't. Practicing the law didn't have the impact, I guess, that I wanted to have when I originally thought about it. And so I was sitting with a mentor, which is a key piece in this. In the process of pursuing graduate work, a mentor who said, do you know you could do this career path and stay within higher education and pursue the master's degree? And I had no idea. And so that was the start of the process. It was my senior year, and I was behind schedule on timelines, but I refused to take a gap year. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:03:52]: And so in that journey, I stumbled into a graduate program that accepted me late out in Pennsylvania, Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And that's how I ended up enrolled there, which was a. I believe everything happens for a reason. And it was a fantastic campus and a fantastic opportunity for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]: You know, I think it's important to. To hear what you just said, because sometimes people feel that they are bound into the. The regular norms of applying, of being considered, and if you're outside of that, that there are no options. And what I just heard you say was, no, that is not the case. You know, you can think about things that are outside the norm. To be honest, I did the same thing. I graduated in December of a year, went to a similar program to what you did, but the traditional model at that time for us was a fall start. So there were very few options or very few programs that were willing to take in those students mid year. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:52]: So I guess what I'm saying to you as you are considering graduate school is that don't let the traditional model always constrain you to what you consider when you're thinking about graduate school, because there may be other options for you and it may take you down a little bit of a different path, but still get you to the same point at the end. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:05:13]: Absolutely. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:14]: Now I know that you got through that program and you made that transition. And I guess before we talk about your doctorate, because I know you went to the doctorate. Further down the road is every student, every student, as they are considering graduate school and moving into a graduate school, there is a transition that you go through. Just like when you go from high school into undergrad, you know, you have to learn what it means to be a college student when you go to graduate school. Again, it is a very different type of way of learning. It's a different. There's different expectations, there's different ways of being taught. So talk to me about that transition for you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]: And what did you have to do as you transitioned into graduate school and what did you have to do as you went through graduate school to find success throughout the entire journey? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:06:00]: There's absolutely transition. And I can definitely talk about my own experience. I can also say as a supervisor of hundreds of graduate students, that it is real and it is legitimate. And I always told them to wait till October because that's when the transition really hits you. If you start your graduate program in August, October is when you're like, okay, I really now feel the crunch. And there is an elevated degree of expectation academically. And so the workload is more rigorous, more intense, and far more independent even than the undergraduate level. Then there, I think, is the idea that if you are pursuing the graduate degree, while you may have a graduate assistantship, a teaching assistantship, it's a level of preparation and execution. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:06:47]: So you might have a 20 hour a week position, but in order to properly prepare to execute in those 20 hours, it has that additional time constraint. And so time becomes even more, more precious at the graduate level. And the one piece to remember is that your peers are having the same struggles, they are having the same struggles and to really utilize one another to help divide and conquer. And so when we studied for our comprehensive exams, everybody took a major course and, and created the study guide and we shared those mutually, you know, because there isn't enough time to do everything alone. And so having the humility to recognize I can't do this alone. And being comfortable with that and, and really leaning in to find good support networks with your classmates, your cohort, however your program may be structured. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:35]: Again, I love what you just said there because I think that sometimes there's this thought of I have to do it alone and I can't ask for help and I need to prove that I belong here. And that's not the case. Especially in a cohort based program. If you're working along and you hit those comps, if you're hitting them at the same time, which sometimes in a cohort program you do, there's no reason why you cannot all work together to try to lift each other up because all of you want to be successful, all of you want to get to that end point and you want to support each other along the way. So you talk about some of those transitions for yourself. And I guess as you think back to your own graduate experience, what mindset shifts did you have to make to be able to be successful in graduate school? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:08:23]: I had to acknowledge, and this is probably filtered many years later in my language choice is in world. I think there are very few people who are really geniuses, but all of us have ability and academic ability and can be successful and do well academically. And so what the mind shift was about the work ethic and just recognizing that it would be hard work at different points in time and working hard through that and not allowing that struggle. Because sometimes working hard is a struggle to be an indicator of my ability or my self worth. I am not a genius, but I can work hard and I did well academically. And so for graduate students to remember, as you're struggling, it's not because you can't do it. It's because it requires that level of effort to do it well. And I think that's what everyone inherently wants to do, is to do well. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:09:17]: And those are transitions again, back to high school. The people who didn't have to study in high school or didn't have to do much effort in their undergraduate degree, that'll be a transition. And just keep at the forefront that you are capable of doing this and you just have to work hard. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:35]: And graduate school is not always easy. You know it's going to challenge you, it will make you question yourself. And many times students will feel a sense of imposter syndrome that they may not they, especially at the beginning part, but sometimes throughout it. Julie, did you feel that imposter syndrome yourself or did you have a feeling of self doubt through your graduate Studies. And how did you handle it? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:09:58]: Absolutely. And I would say they were probably more significant in my PhD program, but they existed in both degrees because what the master's level, you're coming into a content area that you, that you don't know anything about. Like, my master's degree is so unrelated to my major that you're coming into it. And so you, you question if you have the ability to, to do the work as you're coming through the coursework and as you're learning the practical components through the assistantship, but it's again, acknowledging how you're feeling and not isolating that and remembering that there are others that are feeling that way. So again, leaning into that support network and establishing good networking, finding a good mentor who can help you talk through those feelings of I don't understand why this is the way that it is, or I don't think I can do this, or I'm really struggling here, you know, someone who can be that sounding board. And I do really, really want to emphasize that mentoring relationship because it's that perspective of helping you prioritize. You're going to, everything's important in grad school, and it all is, but it all is at different points in time, and the mentor can help you prioritize so that you're not completely overwhelmed. And again, feeling like an imposter, like, there's no way I can keep up with this, and I'm just making it up as I go along. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]: I know you just mentioned the PhD and I want to talk to you a little bit about that because I know that after you got your master's degree, you went off, you worked for a bit, and at some point in those about eight years of working, you made a decision, just like you did at the undergraduate level, to take that next step. And at that time, you were working at Bowling Green State University, and you chose to go into a PhD program at bowling Green State University. But take me back to that point. What made you decide to kind of shake it up and go back to school while you were working and working toward that PhD? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:11:56]: So step one, I think, was taking the second to do that poor soul searching of what do I want out of my career? And so I'd been working in a functional area in resident residence life in housing. By happenstance, that wasn't even my background in my undergraduate level. It was just my first graduate assistantship. And it led into my career, but I knew I didn't want to stay there. I didn't want to stay in that area. And so in examining the pathways, the career pathways, and in talking with mentors, and I'd reached a critical point in my career, the number of years that I needed to make a decision, either a pivot to a different area or to pursue the degree, to broaden my skill set and to look at it. So that was step one is just really pointing your career where you have to think about what's next. I'm not one to be able to plan out the next five years, but it's important to think broader, like what is the end goal or what are the things that I want to be able to achieve in my career, and then finding the timing of when that feels appropriate. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:12:58]: And I'd reached a point in my position where I was bored. And I don't say that meaning I didn't have enough work to do. But there is a level of repetitiveness as you do this work, because everything cycles through the academic year. And so the timing was right. I was ready to learn more, move on, and really think about my career and professional development in a broader scale. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:22]: And I know I mentioned that you did choose to go to Bowling Green State University. There are a lot of different PhD programs that are out there in the country. What made you decide to stay where you were working and doing that degree at the same institution? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:13:37]: I was in intimidated from even before I applied. Like, I was prodded to apply by faculty, and retaking the GRE was a stumbling block for me. I think I postponed applying to the PhD program for a number of years. And so I already had a faculty mentoring relationship before I started the program. And that was important to me. I also knew that I wanted to pursue the PhD full time and really delve into being a student. I didn't want to work full time and take it part time. And that's what I needed for me. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:14:12]: And it was one less transition. So the program had a good reputation. Could I have gone to a program with a better reputation? Absolutely. But it would have added a level of transition for me that would have created more anxiety because I was already kind of anxious about again, can I do this? Do I have the ability to do this? And so that's why I chose not to have to also transition into a new community, into a campus, and feel comfortable. All of that was already there for me by staying on my campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]: Now, just like in the master's degree, there's another transition into the doctorate. Talk to me about that transition and you know, the good, the bad, the ugly in regard to what you had to Learn to be able to make sure that you were be getting past that, I'm going to say imposter syndrome, or that feeling of not being ready for it, to getting into the groove and being able to get through the program and be successful in that. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:15:08]: So we had a first semester course in our PhD program which really focuses on the philosophy of education and the foundations of education. And it was that faculty member who flat out said to us, my job is to break down the way that you think and teach you to think like a PhD. And that was the biggest transition, is to really transform the thought process, to not settle with what is, but to continually ask why. To always be in search of a level of truth that is research based, that is that exists through demonstrated findings and whether qualitative or quantitative. And really a level of critical thinking that far surpassed what I'd been asked... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37922545

Journey, Not Sprint: Real Talk on Graduate School with Antonio Riggs 08/18/2025

Journey, Not Sprint: Real Talk on Graduate School with Antonio Riggs Embarking on the journey of graduate school can be daunting, invigorating, and transformative all at once. On a recent episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, hosted by , listeners were treated to an inspiring and candid conversation with , Associate Director of Student Career Advancement and Success at the University of Michigan-Flint. Antonio pulled back the curtain on his own educational journey, offering insights that resonate with anyone considering – or currently undertaking – graduate studies. It’s a Journey, Not a Sprint One of the key themes Antonio shares is that graduate education is a deeply personal and winding journey. Each student’s path is unique, shaped by individual aspirations, challenges, and life circumstances. Antonio himself returned to graduate school after working professionally, motivated by seeing mentors advance in their fields through further education. He emphasizes the importance of setting milestones, staying adaptable, and recognizing that detours and delays are a natural part of the process. Sometimes, reaching your goals will take longer than anticipated, and that’s perfectly okay. Mindset Shifts and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome Graduate-level learning demands a shift in mindset. Antonio candidly discusses the challenge of managing new expectations, particularly the leap from undergraduate to graduate research and academic rigor. He opens up about his own experiences grappling with imposter syndrome and self-doubt, reassuring listeners that these feelings are common. Antonio’s advice? Communication is key. Leaning on faculty, advisors, and your support system can make all the difference. Balancing Act: Life, Work, and Study A recurring message is the challenge of balancing academics, professional responsibilities, and personal life. Antonio shares practical strategies—from effective time management to building a strong support network. Whether it’s relying on family, collaborating with a partner, or carving out personal time for stress relief, his stories illustrate that success is built on both determination and the willingness to ask for help. Practical Skills and Lifelong Networking Throughout the episode, Antonio highlights the invaluable practical skills he developed in graduate school, particularly the power of networking, strong communication, and the ability to apply research and best practices in real-world settings. These aren’t just academic skills—they’re lifelong assets that have continued to serve him professionally and personally. Ready to Be Inspired? If you’re contemplating graduate school, already in the trenches, or guiding students in higher education, this episode is packed with wisdom, relatability, and encouragement. Tune in to hear Antonio Riggs’ full story and walk away with practical advice for finding your stride and building your own “toolbox” for success. Listen to the full episode and start your own journey with insight and support! Ready to explore more? Visit the University of Michigan-Flint’s graduate program offerings and tune in to Victors in Grad School for more inspiring stories and tips. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity every week to be able to talk through things, issues, concerns that you may have, and to be able to help you to be able to develop some tools for your toolbox, find some new tools for your toolbox, and identify ways in which you can be successful in this journey that you're on. I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every individual that is thinking about graduate school, that's applied to graduate school, that maybe is in graduate school, are going through their own individual journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: You may have similar things happen to you or alongside with other students in your cohort or in your classes together, but you're going to be dealing with them in the way that works for you. And what my goal is, is every week is to be able to provide you with some new resources, some new things that may allow for you to be able to find more success and more success sooner. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that help have gone to graduate school before you and have learned some things along the way. Some of the things might be positive, some of the things might be negative. You never know. But I have an opportunity to be able to learn from them and from what they learned so that you will have an easier time down the road as well. So this week we got another great guest. Antonio Riggs is with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: Antonio is the Associate Director of Student Career Advancement and Success at the University of Michigan Flint. And he's been at the University of Michigan flint for over 11 years now. But he's also had a wealth of other opportunities along the way that he has done, working with students and helping students in many different ways. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to him about his own educational journey to help you in yours. Antonio, thanks so much for being here today. Antonio Riggs [00:02:17]: Hey, thank you for having me. Greatly appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: It is completely my pleasure. Really enjoy being able to talk to people about their own experiences. And I'm really excited to learn a little bit more about yours. And I know that you did all three of your degrees at Saginaw Valley State University, but you did your bachelor's degree in business administration. And then you went off, you worked for a little bit, but at some point, at some point in that time between graduation and about four years later, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on and work toward a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point where you made that decision for yourself. What made you decide that? And why was it the right time to go to graduate school? Antonio Riggs [00:03:06]: I guess during the time I graduated and I went to work at another institution, and a couple of my mentors were, they've completed their degrees, their MSAs, Master of Arts and Sciences degrees in Student affairs administration. And when you're around people that are in positions that you aspire to be in, through the process of networking, you learn about the different career paths, you learn about the degree programs, and people share their insights. And I kind of had a set to say, hey, I wanted to get a master's degree in the beginning, I wanted to go business all the way up, right? Get a business degree, get an MBA and then get a PhD in business and teach us some core university teaching, you know, business classes. But then I didn't go that route. I really stayed in student affairs. I enjoyed it. And I had lifelong friends that I've met in the student affairs arena. And so I kind of was like, hey, this is my passion. Antonio Riggs [00:04:01]: That's where I want to be. And so I was already a student at Saginaw Valley. I knew the program, I knew the buildings under the layout. So it was what, familiar territory for me. And so I saw that they had kicked off a Master of Arts and Sciences with certificate in Student Affairs Administration. And so that's what led me into that role. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:22]: Before I leave this educational journey that you were on, one question that I have is, I know that after you finished that program, you again, you went, you worked for a few more years working at a couple of other institutions, and then at some point, you decided to go back to school to get an education specialist degree. Talk to me about that. Why an education specialist? Antonio Riggs [00:04:46]: I am a person that like to set goals, and in my goal setting, I like to see my milestones. And so some people will say, yeah, just go jump in a PhD program and, you know, knock out the four to five years and get it over with. But for me, Saginaw Valley, you know, kicked off that MSA program, and I think it was a feeder going into EDD programs, right? The Doctorate of Education programs. And so I think they collaborated with Central, where, hey, you get your specialist from Saginaw Valley, you Can go right to Central Michigan, no issues. Every credit will transfer, and you can knock out the educational doctorate. And so that's kind of where I was at with that mindset of, boom, I do this, I see my milestone, knocked it out in two years and then move forward and go and finish that and educational doctorate degree. And so it's still a process. Things come up and you kind of life takes its bends and turns, but as long as you kind of stay focused on the prize and you complete it, I think you'll still be fine. Antonio Riggs [00:05:54]: And so my original goal was to complete my doctoral degree by 33. And so as life, you know, moved on, I'm 10 years past the deadline now, right. But I still keep it in my forefront. I always go back, look at the different programs. I'm always researching other schools to go to, which one has the best route for me. So it's still in the forefront, and I do plan to complete. But hey, there's no time, there's no exact end date that we have when life begins to life, as the young folks say, right? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:27]: Definitely. Now, you talked about mindset, and I think as you go into different types of degrees, different types of education, you definitely have to have a mindset shift because you're educated in one way as a undergraduate student. And then as you transition in, you have to make some shifts for yourself. What type of mindset shifts did you find yourself having to make to succeed in graduate school? Antonio Riggs [00:06:55]: Managing time effectively. So thinking about my undergrad experience versus the grad experience, I was more heavily involved as a student at the undergraduate level, right. So fraternity member, resident assistant, work study student. And so you always found ways to get involved on campus, but then as you begin to work and then go back to school, you don't have that time to commit to some of the experiences that you did as an undergraduate student. And so managing my time effectively, still staying engaged on a campus level because I was a leader within my fraternity on campus, I was obligated to do mentorship programs, advise the undergraduate chapter, so still stayed in touch there. But I would reduce my level of commitment to that organization while I was on campus. And then, you know, my number one priority is to still put food on the table. So I had to work the 8 to 5 and to make some sacrifices. Antonio Riggs [00:07:55]: Right. So I commuted, and so I just couldn't run home and grab a bite to eat. So most of my experiences during my grad program was to get out of work, grab a bite to eat, sleep in the hallway, and then go to Class. And so I remember as an undergrad, I said, you know, I will never be that person sleeping, you know, in the hallway. And then as a grad student, you know, when you make some of those sacrifices, you find yourself sleeping in the hallway just to get a nap because your class is from 6 to 10pm and then now you have to commute 45 minutes to an hour home at night. So managing time, effectively, prioritizing work, academic processes, and that's kind of where I had to streamline all that stuff and cut out on all the extracurricular activities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: I talked to a lot of graduate students and as they're starting graduate school, sometimes they feel like they don't belong. They feel kind of like an imposter per se. Did you ever feel that imposter syndrome or self doubt during your graduate studies, whether it was at the master's or the specialist level? And how did you handle it? Antonio Riggs [00:09:03]: Yes, I think when I hit that imposter syndrome within the program you would identify either a couple staff members or one or two faculty members that will be there to support you and making sure you communicate your thoughts to your advisor. So for me, my advisor was a faculty member in my program. So it was like a double whammy, right? So I would go talk to the faculty member about academic concerns and then the conversation would evolve into this is how I'm feeling is this program for me, especially when it got to that research process because I don't think the undergraduate experience prepared you for the level of research in that master's program that you would go into. And so that's where my self doubt came into play because I loved my graduate programs. To me, I think they were easier than the undergraduate experience, right? Because it's kind of like you read how do you put things together? And it was more of a articulating what you're learning and you're writing it in a paper versus the test and all of the essays you had to write at the undergraduate level, master's level, everything compounded into an end result. And so I kind of like that piece of it. But the research, I wasn't the best at the formulas. And so making sure I communicate with the faculty, my advisor, they would give me good advice. Antonio Riggs [00:10:29]: Dr. Clark is awesome. She helped me out a lot in that process, keeping me motivated, telling me, you know, things that I can do to stay in the game. So that communication piece, when you, when I felt like I wasn't going to make it and it just got hard, just gotta talk to people and Then once you tell people your mindset, where you're at, some people will come up with resources for you because the professors and staff, they want you to succeed. They don't want anybody to drop out. They don't want anybody to stop out. Basically, if you do, that's kind of like the choice you've made on your own. But I think the faculty and staff across any institution that you decide to go to will be there to support you in any way, shape or form, or within reason. Antonio Riggs [00:11:13]: You just got to communicate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:14]: So, as I mentioned, I know that there are transitions that happen going from undergrad to a master's degree to a specialist degree. At each of those points, there's different transitions, different expectations, different faculty, different perspectives, et cetera. As you transitioned out of your undergraduate work, out of your professional work, into your first master's degree, then to your specialist degree, you found success in those journeys. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into each of those degrees, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Antonio Riggs [00:11:55]: Be present, take an active role in my educational journey and not just let the advisor pick the courses for me. So because I worked in higher education and I was doing a Student Affairs Administration program, the things that I was doing at work transferred into my academic program. And things that I learned in my program, I was able to see it come full swing at work. And so tailoring to set myself up as I implemented new programs as Director of Residence Life, I kind of leveraged those experiences within my academic journey to do some benchmarking, to do some research, to write my papers on what I was experiencing in the workplace. So I was able to tie my academic and my professionalism together to make it more exciting, right? Because I wasn't just reading and writing papers. I was actually doing the work academically, the research piece, and then I would come to work and put it into play. And with both of those programs, they were practicum experiences where. Which is basically like an internship at the graduate level that I had to participate in. Antonio Riggs [00:13:03]: And so that kind of further gave me that I was applying what I was learning academically into the work setting. And so I think that's what allowed me to be successful, is working in the field that I wanted to get a degree in. And it all played out. It came together well for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:22]: Now, you were working full time, you were going to school, you had other commitments and things that you were dealing with. Talk to me about balance, because I know that sometimes Balance goes out the window when you make the decision to go to graduate school. But how did you find balance in being able to be successful in school? Work, family, other personal responsibilities? Work while you were going through those graduate degrees? Antonio Riggs [00:13:50]: Yeah, so when I first completed my master's, I was single, had nothing to do but go to school. Right. I didn't want idle hands, right, because you get distracted when your hands become idle. So I was always staying active, whether if it was at work, you know, you go to work. And then I, you know, came home and I was studying. As I said, I was a part of a couple of different organizations that took up my time as well. And so the balance there was still important, too, because you would get caught up into, you know, the leisure activities of just life. Because I was in school, anytime I got some free time, I went to hang out with some friends. Antonio Riggs [00:14:28]: But everybody needs those stress relievers, right? So I don't want to say, hey, you can't go and engage with friends and others, because that's the balance, right? Making sure you're performing well academically, making sure you're performing well professionally, but still finding time to release. Because grad school is stressful, right? It's a heavy time commitment. You want to do great, you want to meet those deadlines, but still finding time for yourself. Whether if that's just going to a social outing with some friends, some people will, you know, take a weekend getaway to a cabin. I like to fish. I go out and put my feet in the grass and ground or whatever you want to call it, right? To be one with nature so you can relieve that level of stress from the everyday work in grad school. So having that balance of social learning, I think is important. And then when I went and finished my specialist, that's when I was like, hey, let's take it to the next level. Antonio Riggs [00:15:23]: And so me and my wife, we pretty much did this whole tag team with the family. She did third shift. I was first shift. So there was always somebody at home. And she was in school completing her degree as well. So it was kind of like, hey, we're studying together. Everything we did, it was like, all right, let's cook dinner. Boom, we're doing it together. Antonio Riggs [00:15:40]: All right, time to study. Let's study. All right. Hey, I have this test. Can you take care of the kids while I do this? Yes, I'll do that. So having a partner, I think, is important, too. That can give you balance, right? When it comes to your journey, professional, academic, somebody to kind of help you along the way, whether if it's household items, somebody to bounce ideas off of, even though they may not understand what you're talking about in grad school, but at least you're able to voice your thought processes. And sometimes just having somebody to sit there and listen can help you sort some of the ideas or things that is going in your head and then you can problem solve accordingly because... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37860470

Balancing Work, Life, and Grad School: Real-World Advice 08/11/2025

Balancing Work, Life, and Grad School: Real-World Advice Graduate school isn’t just another chapter in your academic story—it’s a transformative journey that shapes your personal and professional life. In the latest episode of "Victors in Grad School," sits down with , Assistant Director of Facility Operations and Risk Management at the University of Michigan–Flint, to explore what it means to pursue graduate education as a working professional. Ervin’s path is both relatable and inspiring. After earning his undergraduate degree in 1991, he began working in higher education, but realized years later that to truly thrive—especially as an adjunct lecturer—he needed to further his education. That realization led him back to school after an 18-year gap, a move he calls “one of the best decisions” of his adult life. His experience offers valuable insights for anyone considering grad school, especially those who may feel it’s “too late” to return. Adapting to Change and Embracing Lifelong Learning One prominent theme from Ervin’s story is embracing change. When he first entered grad school, the world had shifted dramatically—classes were online, technology was central, and Blackboard replaced the typewriters of his college days. By asking questions, seeking support, and choosing in-person classes, Ervin exemplified adaptability and the willingness to step out of his comfort zone. The Importance of Support and Community Ervin’s journey also highlights the value of strong support systems. He credits coworkers, colleagues, and campus resources with providing the motivation and flexibility he needed to succeed. For working professionals, leveraging employer education benefits, as Ervin did, can minimize financial barriers and provide a smoother path forward. Finding Balance and Avoiding Burnout Graduate school requires resilience. Ervin candidly shares the struggles he faced: late nights, technology mishaps, and moments of doubt. His advice? Find balance, rely on time management, and take breaks to recharge. Hobbies like chess and cooking offered him much-needed mental space. Advice for Prospective Students For anyone contemplating graduate school, Ervin urges you not to wait: "The longer you delay, the harder it can be to get back in the groove." Apply yourself fully, build relationships, and surround yourself with people who motivate and support you. Ready for more inspiration and actionable insights? Tune into this episode of "Victors in Grad School" and hear first-hand how perseverance, adaptability, and a strong community can lead to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love that you come back, that you listen, that you are working to prepare yourself for this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Because no matter where you are in thinking about graduate school, applying to graduate school, going to graduate school, wherever you are in this pathway, it is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: And you're going to find that there are things that you can do along that path to help yourself to find success sooner. And that's what this show is all about. This show is here to help you to be able to make better choices, to be able to find new ways of doing things, to give yourself some tools for your toolbox that will prepare you to find success sooner. That's why every week I bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that can share their own experiences, sometimes good, sometimes maybe not so good of things that they learned along the way that can help you to again prepare yourself. This week we got another great guest. Irvin Levy is with us today. And Irvin is the Assistant Director of Facility Operations and Risk Management and Recreational Services at the University of Michigan, Flint. He did his undergraduate work at Central Michigan University and then did his graduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: We're going to learn a little bit more about him and about his experiences and his own journey in going to grad school. Ervin, thanks so much for being here today. Ervin Leavy [00:01:56]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to be able to talk to you today. I mentioned that you did your undergraduate work at Central Michigan University, and at some point during either your undergraduate degree or after graduating, you got an inkling, you got an inkling, you got that itch, you started to scratch it, you decided that you were going to go to graduate school. Take me back to that point. What was going through your head and what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Ervin Leavy [00:02:31]: Well, I got my Undergrad degree in 1991 from Central Michigan University. I began working here at the university in 2002, and I just had my undergrad degree after about seven years working in higher education. Education. That's when I realized I needed to further my education, especially on the technology side, as I was an Adjunct lecturer. So in 2009, I decided that I was going to go back to school and get my master's degree in technology and education. And that was one of the best moves that I ever made in my adult life was going back to school. Because when I came out in 91, there were not very many computers and we all had typewriters when I was in college. So when I went back to school in 2009, it was to. Ervin Leavy [00:03:17]: Everything was totally different. Work was being done on blackboard, everything was pretty much online. So that was an adjustment period for me. But working in higher education, I felt that was needed in order for me to be successful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:30]: So you decided to continue your education at the University of Michigan Flint. And you probably had some reasons for doing that. And I guess talk to me about the, your decision making and as you were looking at different programs potentially or why you chose not only the University of Michigan Flint, but why educational technology? Ervin Leavy [00:03:50]: Well, at the time I was an adjunct lecturer, I taught a variety of one credit classes. And what I noticed in the classroom was I wasn't that advanced in technology. And I chose that field because I thought it would help me in my teachings. And it did. I learned a lot regarding just working with the disabled. I learned the importance of using closed captions in my teachings. And that was the reason I went. And another reason I went is being an employee here at the university. Ervin Leavy [00:04:25]: There's a excellent tuition reimbursement program, so I had to take advantage of that. And it didn't cost me anything. Only thing I had to pay for was my books. So I couldn't let that opportunity pass me by. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:38]: You know, and that's something that we haven't talked a lot about, even though some people from past shows have talked about that, is that you may be out there, you may be working, and there could be educational benefits that your employer provides you. And I always encourage people to take the time to have a conversation with your human resources office to find out are there opportunities that are available because they could be there. You just have to make sure you understand what the strings that are attached to that money are. So make sure that you're asking the right questions and determine whether or not you want to be bound by whatever the rules are if there is educational money that is available through your employer. Because I've seen people come in and they're, they and it's a great program. And then I've seen others where they may have to stay with the employer for a certain amount of time or the money that they took becomes alone. So you have to watch that and just know what you're getting yourself into, which is great. Now every person goes through a process of transition as they go into graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:49]: You have to kind of figure out for yourself the differences, because there are true differences in moving from being an undergraduate student to working in the workforce to then going back into, for you, going back into graduate school. And at each of those points, there are different transitions. So you had transitioned out of being an undergraduate student into, into full time work and then you decided to come back into school. So there's a transition there. So talk to me about these transitions and what you had to do when you transitioned into graduate school to find success and what you had to do to maintain that success throughout your entire graduate school experience. Ervin Leavy [00:06:31]: Well, when I went to graduate school, I had been out of school for about 18 years. So when I decided to go back, everything was totally different. Like I said, everything was online, all assignments were on blackboard. We didn't use blackboard when I was an undergrad back in the 90s. And a part of what really helped me was I asked questions and I made sure I know what was helpful for me is instead of taking online classes, I preferred to go sit in the classroom. And I went and I sat in the front row for every class and tried to learn as much as I could. And I asked questions that was important. And I had some wonderful advisors and some wonderful professors that walked me through, which was very helpful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:17]: Now there are times, especially after going back after so many years, I talk to students all the time that have a feeling of imposter syndrome and self doubt that they fade as they go through graduate school, especially as they enter into graduate school. Did you feel that for yourself? And if so, how did you handle it? Ervin Leavy [00:07:39]: I had doubts, but I knew I needed to do it in order to be a better adjunct lecturer. I had a lot of doubts and I think just taking that step and just pushing forward and pushing through it, it became easier for me. But what I learned in the master's program is there was a lot more flexibility in the master's program. A lot of the students that were in those programs had families, they were working full time. So the flexibility that was provided for us was so helpful in undergrad. I don't recall having that type of flexibility. I recall a couple semesters instead of taking two, three credit courses, I took a three credit course and they let me break down the other three credits by doing one at a time, which was really helpful. And I was able to still work full time and go to school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:32]: When you're balancing so many things, sometimes it's hard to keep that motivation going. How did you stay motivated through challenging times, challenging semesters, you know, and get to the finish line in the end? Ervin Leavy [00:08:45]: That was tough because there were times when I really wanted to just throw the towel in and give up there. There was one incident where I was up till 4 in the morning working on some stuff and I ended up losing all of the work and I ended up going to bed and I got back up about 8am I contacted my professor and told him what happened and I just got back to it. But I was motivated. I really had to finish the task. And I just think that's probably one of my stronger points is completing tasks and meeting deadlines and those strengths really helped me through the program. I was not going to give up. I had friends that went through grad school. That was motivation for me. Ervin Leavy [00:09:27]: Also I had co workers to do it. So that was motivation for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:31]: I talk about balancing and you are working full time and you have family, you have friends, you've got lots of competing demands when it came to getting through your academic program. And every student has to find balance for themselves. Talk to me about balance and how you were able to find that optimal balance that allowed for you to be able to get through graduate school school in an optimal way. Ervin Leavy [00:10:02]: I think the most important thing is that I was already working here at the university and my supervisors allowed me that flexibility where if I had a class at 4 o' clock, I could leave my office and go to class and come back and I, you know, work maybe a couple hours later. That was very helpful for me. But I also had to go above and beyond. I had to stay up later. I had to give up some weekends. I remember a class I took, we had be here Saturdays for maybe four or five weeks in a row for half the day. And that was the class. But I had to make that sacrifice. Ervin Leavy [00:10:38]: But just working here at the university and already being on campus, that relieves so much pressure, which I know there are others who probably wouldn't have that luxury. So I was fortunate to already be on campus and was able to be flexible with work. And yeah, there were times when I even did homework while I was in the office. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:58]: You talked a little bit about times where you felt that burnout and you definitely had to push through. As you talked about how did you end up in the end avoiding burnout or recovering when you did feel overwhelmed. Ervin Leavy [00:11:14]: My doctor talked to me years ago. And he gave me some advice that stuck with me to this day. And it's over 20 years ago. He said, urban, if there are things you can change, change them. If you can't change them, don't worry about it. So I stopped worrying about all the stressful moments. I couldn't let it break me down. I would just take a break. Ervin Leavy [00:11:37]: I love to play chess, so I would go play some chess just to get my mind away from everything. I love to cook, too. I would go cook and just put everything to the side and regroup, recharge and. And I created a good balance. Just had to move some things around in my personal life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:53]: One of the things that important is the connections that you make, the connections that you make with your peers, but also with your faculty. Talk to me about relationships that you were able to build both with faculty and peers, and how did they impact. Ervin Leavy [00:12:09]: You as a student, my peers, I had some co workers here that were in the master's programs also. And we all stuck together. We motivated each other. And being an employee of the university, I was a familiar face. So I was pretty well connected. And the support that I received was just unlimited. And all of that played a factor in my success. And when you talk about relationships that I've built over the years, I'm very thankful and grateful for a lot of my colleagues and the people that motivated me. Ervin Leavy [00:12:43]: And what I learned, too, is about schooling. I feel like anything you put your mind to, if you apply yourself, surround yourself with people that can help you, you can accomplish those goals. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]: What would you say is the most valuable thing that you learned outside the classroom during your graduate school experience that helped you in the graduate school outside of the classroom? Ervin Leavy [00:13:08]: I think my organizational skills got a little better. I've always been an organized person. But when I got into those programs and got another 40 to 50%, it was almost two. Having two jobs, I really had to use my time efficiently and being efficient with every moment. And when I finished the program, I was a more efficient worker in recreational services because of those experiences. I'm very efficient with my time now, where before I don't think I was as efficient, but that's what I learned outside of the classroom. It's just even more structured. And being a former athlete, that's where I learned structure and discipline. Ervin Leavy [00:13:50]: But going to school and working full time, it's really the same thing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:54]: What's one thing that you wish that someone had told you before you started graduate school? Ervin Leavy [00:13:59]: I had a lot of people tell me I should go to graduate school. But I had been out of school for so long, it was tough for me to get motivated. What I think I wish someone would have told me would probably be, you need to get it done now, don't wait. Get it done now. And I wish I would have done it earlier. You know, I got here, the university in 2002, and I didn't take advantage of the opportunity to go back until 2009. So like I said, I had been out of school for 18 years before I finally decided to do it. And people told me all the time, you should go back. Ervin Leavy [00:14:36]: You need to do it now. Don't wait. The longer you wait, the more difficult it'll be to. To get back acclimated. And it was tough. I struggled in the beginning because blackboard, all of that was new to me, but I worked my way through it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:48]: As you think about other students that are thinking about going to graduate, what are some tips that you might offer to these other students, no matter if they were doing education or any other field that would help them find success sooner? Ervin Leavy [00:15:01]: Do your best. Apply yourself. Apply yourself 100% as if you're going to work every day. And that's what was helpful for me. I applied myself and take it seriously. When I went back in 2009, I was one of the older students, but I said, I'm going to sit in the front row every day. And I saw there were a lot of students that I didn't think were really, really taking things serious. And when assignments were due, they struggled. Ervin Leavy [00:15:27]: When group projects were due, they struggled. Apply yourself. Do your best. And I'm proud to say I finished my Master's program with a perfect gpa. I had never done that, but it was because I never applied myself either. I was a good student, but I never applied myself like I did when I went into the Master's program. And that's the best GPA that I ever had in my life. But it also helped me as a professional because I apply myself the same way in everything I do now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]: Well, Irvin, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey today, and I wish you all the best. Ervin Leavy [00:16:00]: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:02]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37668460

Navigating Grad School: Advice on Success, Balance, and Overcoming Doubt 08/04/2025

Navigating Grad School: Advice on Success, Balance, and Overcoming Doubt Graduate school is often called a journey, and for good reason. In the latest episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, host sits down with , the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs at the University of Michigan-Flint, to unpack what it truly takes to succeed as a graduate student. Whether you’re contemplating applying, awaiting your first semester, or knee-deep in research, the experiences and advice shared in this episode offer practical guidance and inspiration for every stage of the process. One of the key themes Dr. Parrill discusses is intentional decision-making—knowing why you’re choosing graduate school and how it aligns with your long-term goals. She recounted how, as an undergraduate at Central Michigan University, her co-op experience at Dow Chemical revealed to her that advanced degrees opened doors to more autonomy and interesting projects, prompting her to further her education immediately, rather than settling into a job right away. Dr. Parrill also shares her experience of choosing the right graduate program, highlighting the importance of considering personal and professional factors. Her decision to attend the University of Arizona was influenced not only by its academic offerings but also by where both she and her then-fiancé could study complementary fields on the same campus. Preparation is another recurring theme. Academic preparation, such as building a solid foundation during undergrad and leveraging work experiences, paid off for Dr. Parrill—especially when it came to placement exams and early graduate coursework. She stresses the importance of treating graduate school as a full-time commitment, dedicating oneself not just in the classroom but also through research, networking, and even tutoring or mentoring others. The transition to graduate-level work often brings feelings of imposter syndrome and self-doubt. Dr. Parrill’s candid insights into these struggles—and the importance of leaning on mentors and building supportive networks—underscore that such challenges are common, but surmountable. Finally, Dr. Parrill shares wisdom on balancing responsibilities and being intentional about time management, whether you’re juggling teaching, research, work, or family obligations. Her advice, derived from mentoring students with complex lives and her own experience, rings true for anyone seeking to thrive in graduate school and beyond. Are you considering graduate school, or are you currently navigating its demands? Tune into this episode for actionable tips, personal stories, and the reassurance that the path, while challenging, is absolutely rewarding. Listen to the full episode to glean more practical advice and inspiration to fuel your graduate school journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs for the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, we are here to talk with you, to work with you on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey, because it truly is a journey. And every one of us, as we think about graduate school, have to go through a process to be able to prepare ourselves, to work through the process of not only applying to graduate school, getting into graduate school, but getting through graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:41]: And to do that, there are things that you can do to find success in that journey, and that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences, people from different walks of life that have gone before you. They've gone to graduate school, they've been successful, they've come out the other end mostly unscathed, and they have been able to learn things along the way. Learn things about themselves, but learn things about the process of going to graduate school and what they had to do to find success. This week, we've got another great guest. Dr. Abby Parrill is with us today, and Dr. Perel is the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic affairs at the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:23]: And Dr. Parrill joined the University of Michigan Flint about a month ago. She has transitioned from working at the University of Memph for a number of years, and now she's here, and I'm really excited to have her here to talk to you about her own experiences and to be able to help you better understand some of the things that she had to learn along the way. Dr. Pero, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:01:46]: Absolutely. Thank you for the invite. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: Well, I really appreciate being able to talk with you today. I'm always excited to be able to learn from other people and the journey that they're on. And I know that when you were in your undergraduate work, at some point back at Central Michigan University, there was a point in time. There was a point in time where you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue your education, weren't going to just finish that degree and go off and work and maybe go over to Dow Chemical down the road, but you made a decision to continue on. Can you take me back to that point and what was going through your head and what made you Decide that that was the right step at that point. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:02:25]: Absolutely. So it's funny you mentioned Dow Chemical, because I was actually in the cooperative education program at Dow Chemical while I was an undergraduate student. Great learning experience. Let me see how to use what I was learning in the classroom in a real chemistry lab. But one of the things I learned was that the chemists that had doctoral degrees had a lot more autonomy and more interesting projects. And those with bachelor's degrees tended to do very routine, repetitive things that did require chemistry knowledge. And I enjoyed doing those routine, repetitive things as an undergraduate student because it allowed me to get really good at a few of the skills I had learned as an undergraduate. But I couldn't see myself doing that for 10, 15, 20 more years. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:03:10]: And there had been a panel held, sponsored by Central Michigan University, I think it was our student affiliates of the American Chemical Society sponsored a panel about graduate school, med school, or work as being some of the common directions someone might go after right after completing the bachelor's degree. And there were people on the panel who had started employment first and then gone to graduate school and others who had gone straight to graduate school. And they talked about kind of the challenge of getting into the work environment, getting used to a particular salary, and then stepping back to graduate school and going back to that kind of restricted income as being a very sincere challenge that they faced. And I decided that since I knew I didn't want to remain at the bachelor's level for my entire career, that I was just going to grit my teeth and move on and get the graduate degree right away. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]: Now, one of the things that I always am interested in is, you know, you decided to go and continue your education, like you mentioned, and you ended up applying to schools. But I'm sure that you went through a process of exploring schools to try to find the right fit, and you ended up finding a fit at the University of Arizona doing organic chemistry. Talk to me about that process that you went through for yourself to explore, but also to identify that final decision of the University of Arizona. And what was it about the University of Arizona that made it the best fit for you? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:04:48]: So searching for graduate schools was very different when I was searching for graduate schools than it would be for today's prospective graduate students. My first shopping for graduate schools was to go to the big rings that our undergraduate institutions had bolted on the wall. And they had big paper flyers hanging from these rings. And each flyer was for a specific graduate program in chemistry. And they had little tear off cards, and you could fill out your contact information and put them in the mail. And they would mail you information much faster. Now to use the all of the wonderful online tools you have, you can go to a website and shop instead of having to send off a card and wait. But another avenue of exploration is very much relevant today, and that's to talk to your faculty. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:05:36]: I asked some of my faculty. I'm looking at this three foot thick pile of programs and I have no idea how to choose. And I got a piece of interesting advice from one of my undergraduate faculty members who said, try somewhere really different for graduate school. Because graduate school is a limited period of time. Once you graduate, you have the opportunity to stay near where you go to graduate school or go somewhere else if you don't like that that region of the country or that part of the world. And I found that very interesting advice. And so as I was actually applying to graduate schools, my not then yet husband and I each agreed we were going to pick several schools. We were both going to apply to each other's schools as well as our own. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:06:25]: And we were going to see where we got our acceptances and then decide. And out of the schools I had visited and the ones that I had acceptances at that my husband was interested in, my future husband at the time, now currently husband, we narrowed it down to the University of Arizona and the University of Pennsylvania. I was going to go in chemistry, he was going to go in pharmacology and toxicology. And at the University of Pennsylvania, those two were on two different campuses, two hours apart. And at the University of Arizona, they were on the same campus across a major street from each other. So maybe a 10 minute walk. And given that we both liked both of the institutions and our respective programs at those institutions, we opted for the let's go where we can be together. And the desert Southwest is about as different from Michigan in terms of climate and native flora and fauna as you can get. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:21]: So it was an opportunity to try someplace really different. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:07:24]: Definitely very different. And I'm sure that along the way you definitely learned a few things about the the desert Southwest versus here and things that you like or don't like as well as when you're in the Midwest and things that you like or don't like. And I guess one of the things that I think about as you made that move, when you made that move down to the desert Southwest, there's things that you can do to prepare yourself both academically, professionally, personally to make a move like that, as you think back to that move for yourself, how did you prepare academically, professionally, personally, before starting graduate school to help you to make that transition into graduate school? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:08:08]: Well, I will say, while I didn't intend it to be preparation at the time, participating in that cooperative education internship opportunity where I could use chemistry daily in a work environment rather than just study it academically, and that repetition of a certain subset of chemistry was phenomenally important. So when I headed off to graduate school, the chemistry department administered a set of, let's call them placement exams. That isn't what they were called, but we'll call them that. And the ones I did the best on were the ones that overlapped with not just my academic experience, but my work experience. So that opportunity to use what I had learned and use it over and over and over really did cement what I had learned and make it so that I could be very successful on that subset of what I had learned as an undergraduate really shifted it into long term memory. And so the opportunity to go back and review things and use things in a different way, I would say the more you can view your entire undergraduate curriculum as connected and building transferable skills and use them from one class into the next, or find work experiences where you can use some of those things that turned out to be one of the best preparations I could have done, even though I didn't think about it that way at the time. And really the move across the country, there's no preparation for that. I will say I learned from the experience though, because I have now moved across the country again for the third time in maybe fourth time in my life. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:09:51]: And one thing I didn't do that first time that I have gotten better at every time is don't pack things you're going to throw away when you unpack them. Start your packing early enough that you're really being discriminating about what you pack. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:06]: That's great advice. I think everybody could probably learn from that and not just if you're going to graduate school. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:10:12]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:13]: When you transition into graduate school, there is a difference. There's a difference between the way that you're taught as an undergraduate student as a way that and the way that you're taught as a graduate student. There's different expectations, different perspectives. And as I mentioned at the beginning, you did get your degree, so you were successful getting through that degree. And I guess as you think about your transition in to the academic work, talk to me about what you had to do to set yourself up for success and what are some things that you had to do to maintain that success. As you went through the entire academic experience. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:10:51]: Yeah. So as an undergraduate student you will probably take, probably will have taken more classes at a time than you will as a graduate student, but that doesn't mean you should treat it as less work. So I treated my graduate experience the way I had treated the combination of my full time undergraduate program and my halftime internship at dow and really treated graduate school as the same time commitment. And less of my time was in class, but more of it was invested in other aspects of being successful. Reading literature in my field that I was studying so that I could learn what's going on in my field, find things that I could apply into my research project, just be generally well informed. I did some tutoring in part I did it for some money on the side, but it was also to really repeat those kind of early chemistry concepts by helping an undergraduate student learn them for the first time to make sure I was always fresh and I always had that solid foundation to build from. It also gave me some one on one teaching and mentoring experience that has been tremendously useful throughout my career. And so treat graduate school absolutely as at least a full time job, if not more. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:12:16]: Even if you weren't scheduled full time, find useful things to do that will help you advance through the program in the other part of that full time experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:27]: You know, one of the things that I think about when you talk about that is the fact that as you make that switch for yourself, many times graduate students talk to me about a feeling of imposter syndrome, especially as you become a graduate student, because you're looked at in a different way and you're held at a different standard than you are as an undergraduate student. And especially if you're in a PhD program where maybe you're being asked to teach or do high level research, there's expectations that are there. Did you ever face imposter syndrome or self doubt during your graduate studies and how did you handle it? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:13:06]: Self doubt? Yes. I don't think I knew the word imposter syndrome when I was a graduate student. I had been academically successful. I knew how to learn in a classroom. But it's different when you are asked to be creative and develop a project and contribute to a project. And it can feel overwhelming that how can I go look in the literature in my field and find what's missing, what projects still need to be done. How can I add something to this discipline when there's 500 journals and I'm 50 years behind? Well, hundreds of years behind. There's so much to Learn to know how my project that I'm supposed to be generating to be the basis for either a thesis or a dissertation. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:13:52]: How can I decide what my value add to the field is going to be? That certainly felt overwhelming. And luckily my first challenge at developing a project proposal was actually within the context of a class. So it wasn't necessarily my dissertation project. That was my first challenge to create my own project. And so the field was narrowed to the top topic of the class. And, and the t. The professor did a really nice job of giving us some strategies of how to identify a project that might need to be done. So there was a lot of guidance. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:14:29]: And so what I would say to anyone who's feeling overwhelmed and, and like you don't know how to start. You're going to have a graduate committee, you're going to have a major professor or a mentor. Go to them, share how you're feeling and ask for some strategies on how to get started. It's, it's okay to lean on your mentors. I have leaned on mentors through my entire career. And as I transition into my new role as provost, I had a one year opportunity to try out the role at a different institution as an interim. But trust me, I leaned on prior provosts that were still at my institution. I leaned on the president at the University of Memphis. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:15:08]: Now I'm leaning a little bit on the chancellor. As I, as I onboard into my new role. I still have mentors and I'm not going to say how long I've been in my career, but it's been a while. Or to borrow from the south, it's been a minute. And those mentors, I think can be tremendous supporters and they can support you better if you share a little bit of that vulnerability about how you feel overwhelmed because then they know kind of how to, how to reassure you and share maybe an experience where they felt overwhelmed and how they overcame it, but also some strategies to, to, to, to get going. Once you get going and you start making progress, it changes a lot. You, you see some progress, you say, oh, I can do this and a mentor can help you on that path to, to making some progress that helps you feel like you belong and, and that you were admitted to graduate school because you really are capable of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:05]: You know, earlier you said that someone told you it is a finite amount of time and it truly is a finite amount of time. When you're in graduate school, it is a finite amount of time. There are that are going to be thrown your way and you're going to be asked to learn a lot in that short amount of time. It may look like it's a long amount of time, but you're going to find very quickly that it goes very fast. Now, as you went through your own graduate experience, as you mentioned, you were there with your significant other, and not everybody has that experience, but everyone has to learn how to balance. Everyone has to learn how to balance school, work, family, and any other personal responsibilities that they may have in their life, while trying to also focus on why they're there, which is the academic experience. Talk to me about how you balanced all of those competing... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37471965

Getting Ready For the Fall Deadline - See You Next Week! 07/28/2025

Graduate School Success: Jackie Halligan on Passion and Persistence 07/21/2025

Graduate School Success: Jackie Halligan on Passion and Persistence Are you thinking about graduate school, in the midst of your studies, or reflecting on your own academic journey? If so, the latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast is one you won’t want to miss! Hosted by , this engaging episode features , Human Resources professional at the University of Michigan-Flint, who offers a candid look into her path through academia and into a thriving HR career. The Journey is Unique for Everyone Right from the start, Dr. Lewis reminds us: graduate education is a journey, not a race. Jackie’s story perfectly illustrates this. After earning her Bachelor’s in Employee Relations at Michigan State University, she worked in the field before deciding to pursue a master’s degree. What sparked her return to the classroom? Mentorship and practical advice during an undergrad internship made it clear that a graduate degree was the “golden ticket” for advancing in human resources. Finding the Right Fit Jackie emphasizes the importance of researching programs to find the best fit. She didn’t simply chase prestige—she sought a university with a top-tier HR program, ultimately returning to Michigan State for her master’s in labor and industrial relations. Her advice to prospective students: visit campuses, explore programs, and choose the environment where you feel most comfortable and supported. Preparation and Persistence Lead to Success Jackie credits her undergraduate experience with teaching her how to study, manage time, and persevere through academic challenges—skills that were crucial for succeeding in grad school. She highlights the unique benefits of a smaller graduate cohort, where close relationships with professors and peers created a supportive network. Applying Graduate Education in the Real World Throughout her career—in manufacturing and academia—Jackie has leaned on her social science background, which helped her empathize, communicate, and balance employee and company interests. She stresses that passion is more important than chasing a paycheck. Decades into her HR career, she still finds her work deeply rewarding. Final Advice for Future Graduate Students Jackie’s overarching message is clear: Find your passion, research your options thoroughly, and set yourself up for success by choosing a graduate program that’s the right fit for you—not just the one with the highest salary prospects. Eager to learn more and be inspired by Jackie’s story? Listen to the full episode of “Victors in Grad School” and start charting your own path to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week you and I are on a journey. I say that every week. But it truly is the case that education and the journey, the what you're doing right now, whether you're at the very beginning just starting to think about this, or you're maybe you've already applied and you've gotten accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school, it is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:41]: And from the just ideation stage, where you're just thinking about it all the way to the completion stage can take a short period of time, it can take a long period of time. It really is determinant on where you are at your point, at the point in which you are today. And every person is at a different point, and it can take people different amounts of time to be able to get to that education. This podcast is here to be able to help you in that journey. It is here to be able to help you learn about things that you can do to be successful in this process, whether it's applying, whether it's going through graduate school, whatever it may be. I love every week being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone through graduate school before you, that can share their own experiences about what worked, maybe what didn't work as well as things that they learned along the way. And today, today we've got another great guest. Jackie Halligan is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: And Jacqui works at the University of Michigan Flint in the Human Resources office. And she has her own education journey that led her not only into professional work, but also to the University of Michigan ultimately over the last few years that she's been here. So I'm really excited to be able to talk with her today, to learn from her and to have you learn from her experiences as well. Jackie, thanks so much for being here. Jackie Halligan [00:02:04]: I'm excited. Thank you, Chris, for the invitation. I appreciate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: Well, it is definitely my pleasure and I'm excited to be able to talk to you today. And as I said, it is a journey that everyone goes on when they go and make a decision to go to graduate school. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University, you got a Bachelor of Arts in Employee Relations and then you went off, you worked for a little Bit of time there, there was a point, but there had to have been a point in time, whether it was during undergraduate work, whether it was during that, when you were working, where you said to yourself, I need to keep going. I need to get some more education to get to where I want to be. Can you bring me back in time and talk to me about that period, that point, and what was the spark that made you make that decision? Jackie Halligan [00:02:55]: So if I go back actually to my undergraduate experience, I did two internships, one of which was at the city of Flint, actually in their labor relations department. And the director of labor relations at that time was getting his master's from Michigan State in labor relations. And his advice to me was that human resources is a very. Now, this was a while ago, but human resources is a very difficult field to break into. And that he felt it was important to get a master's degree to really be able to work in the field and have a good job. And he said to me, but once you get your master's degree, you'll be set, you'll have a great career, you'll do well for yourself. But it really is kind of like the, you know, the entry ticket, the golden ticket, as they call it, that to get a good start and get a good career in human resources. And so obviously, these number of years later, that's something that still resonates with me and certainly was a piece of the very important puzzle for me to consider graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:51]: I know that ultimately you made the decision to go back to Michigan State to get a master's degree in labor and industrial relations. And there are many programs that are out there. You could have selected any of those programs. So as you were working and just making those decisions about where you wanted to go, what you wanted to do to be able to make that next step. Talk to me about that decision making process for yourself and what made you ultimately decide that Michigan State was the place where you wanted to go? Jackie Halligan [00:04:24]: So I was probably a little bit different than other people in high school. I knew what I wanted to do. Probably a senior. I mean, it wasn't like I was a freshman, but probably by when I was a senior and I was looking at programs, I actually came across what at the time was gmi, which is now Kettering, they had a labor relations program. And I was researching and reading about it and just that was it. Like it just clicked and it made sense. And so when I started to really think about going into undergrad and wanting to study labor relations or human resources at that Time there weren't a lot of HR programs that you could get a degree in. And Michigan State was actually one of the top, still is one of the top schools in the country. Jackie Halligan [00:05:04]: You can get a human resources management or labor relations degree. And so I knew going into school, even as a freshman, that's what I was going to study. I, I've done it now for decades, quite frankly, I've never wavered from wanting to work in hr. So I just sort of did my research, found that Michigan State was one of the best universities at that time in the country to study this. And that's where I went. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:27]: Simple as that. And the thing that is interesting is I think that, as you said, you may be a little unique because not every student knows that they want to do human resources right from the get go as they go into college. And as you go through, through college, as you go through your undergrad, you move into your graduate degree, there is a different way in which you are educated, different expectations, different perspectives, different ways of learning. And you were successful in going through that graduate work and then going back out into the world after that and taking that knowledge into the workplace. Every individual has to find their path for themselves. They have to find the way in which that they can be successful in that transition, not only into graduate school, but through graduate school. So for you, as you think back to your graduate education, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you stepped into that graduate work, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate education journey? Jackie Halligan [00:06:32]: I actually would go back to undergrad, which set me up for success, because when I was in high school, I used to be able to get my homework done and never have to like, crack a book or do homework, as they call it these days. And so in undergrad, I had to teach myself to study. I didn't know how to study. And I never been taught, never had to learn. And so in undergrad, learning how to study, how to read, how to focus, how to stay dedicated, how to set your priorities, know everything that's going on from your class perspective, and when tests are and papers are due, that probably set me up in the best way to succeed in graduate school was just the fundamental of knowing how to study. I tell my children I struggled in undergrad in trigonometry, I'd never had it. And I, for whatever reason, the professor and I just couldn't, like, I couldn't grasp his teaching. It just didn't work for me. Jackie Halligan [00:07:23]: And I ended up Teaching myself trigonometry. I sat in the library for 13 hours at Michigan State, started on page one and taught myself trigonometry before the end of the semester. So just learning how to study, I think was important for me. But then I think about like in grad school specifically, and what were the factors that would help me succeed. While Michigan State is a obviously very large university and you get into those accounting classes in undergrad, you might have 200, 300 students. Graduate school, especially labor and industrial relations, is a relatively small school and they have about 100 students carrying on through the year. It's a one year program, or was at the time, and they would accept about 100 students each year. So it was a relatively small program. Jackie Halligan [00:08:07]: So there you get to know the dean. And it was a graduate school. The undergrad was in social sciences. So this was dedicated grad school. So you get to know the dean, you get to know the professors, you develop very strong relationships with your co students, your peers in the courses, because you, quite frankly, you, you see the same students day in and day out. Many of you are in, you might be in the same class three or four times with, you know, multiple individuals. So I think for that, for me it was more the, the uniqueness or the style, kind of the small scale of the program, that sort of personalized approach where they knew you, you knew them. And so like if anything ever came up, you could go talk to the professor and he or she would listen and understand if you were facing a challenge and try to work with you. Jackie Halligan [00:08:51]: So I think that for me was probably the most important key to success was that small scale. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:56]: I know that as you completed that degree, you went off, you worked in a number of different places over your career, you ended up here. As you think back to the education that you in your graduate degree, how do you find that you pull from that education on a daily basis? Jackie Halligan [00:09:13]: So both of my degrees technically are from the College of Social Science. So I have a lot of background in psychology, sociology, economics. And so I think I've looked at my background. I've spent a lot of time in manufacturing, US based manufacturing companies. So a lot of time spent in employee relations and so that sort of more social focus and developing relationships, being transparent, communicating, you know what you can when you can. I have people tell me like, Jackie, you can talk to anybody. Like I can go out on the shop floor and I can talk to somebody. I can talk to the Chancellor here very comfortably at UFM Flint. Jackie Halligan [00:09:50]: So I can kind of scale everybody and Talk to people in a manner that makes them hopefully feel comfortable. So I think for me it was more the social science part, an aspect of my degree that helped me connect with people and also be empathetic and understand when people are facing challenges. I actually had a peer of mine. This was literally like 20 plus years ago. I was leaving one company and going to another. And as I was leaving, one of my peers said, jackie, you from an HR perspective are the best person I've worked with to balance the company interest with the employee interests. And that's a fine line when you try to understand what's important to the employee and how can we help them succeed and have a great experience here. But also what is the company trying to achieve and how do you balance those two out? Because they're not always in parallel. Jackie Halligan [00:10:38]: They're not working in harmony all the time. So how do you balance that, maybe even be conflicting interests and try to find that best solution? And so I think all of that from my degree and that kind of mindset of social sciences helped me pretty much throughout my career. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:53]: As you think back to your graduate education and you think about the things that you had to do to find success, and you think about other students that are maybe thinking about graduate school, whether it's in human resources or some other area, what are some tips that you might offer to others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Jackie Halligan [00:11:17]: You know, one piece of advice that I give people is some people will talk about what I'll call chasing the money. Like, oh, I want to go study this because I'll earn, you know, good money and I'll make a good wage and I'll have a great way of life. And I always say, find your passion. Like, I've been doing human resources for 35 years and I just moved to Flint about. Back to Flint area about less than three years ago. And I really thought about, like, what do I want to do? It was an opportunity for me to do something different if I wanted to. And I actually took some time and reflected on it and I said, you know what? I still want to work in HR 30 plus years later. This is what I want to do. Jackie Halligan [00:11:52]: So I think for me, the most important thing is find that passion. Find what you enjoy. That's going to get you up in the morning, get you excited. You're going to find it rewarding. Don't chase the paycheck. It's not worth it. So I think that's it. And I think, you know, going back to what I sort of said about, you know, Michigan State and the graduate school is do your research, you know, look at multiple options, look at multiple universities, look at their programs, go visit the campuses if you haven't done that yet, and find where you feel. Jackie Halligan [00:12:20]: I hate to use the term home, but, you know, find where you feel most at home and where you can most likely succeed. Because pre grad and graduate school are hard, hard work and you want to make sure that you're setting yourself up for success. And I think finding the right fit from a program perspective is most important. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:38]: Well, Jackie, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. I completely agree with you on that finding that right fit and being able to do what you have to do to be able to take that next step. So thank you for sharing all of that and I truly wish you all the best. Jackie Halligan [00:12:55]: Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:57]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37471685

From Community Leader to MBA: Milanna Jones’ Journey Through Graduate School 07/14/2025

From Community Leader to MBA: Milanna Jones’ Journey Through Graduate School Embarking on the path to a graduate degree is a transformative journey, full of decisions, challenges, and opportunities for growth. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, host sits down with , a city council member for the City of Pontiac and a recent MBA graduate from the University of Michigan-Flint, to delve into what it really takes to succeed in graduate school and how it can shape your professional and personal life. The Power of Purposeful Decision-Making One of the core themes of Milanna’s story is purposeful decision-making. After completing her undergraduate degree, Milanna knew she wanted more than just academic credentials; she sought practical, strategic leadership skills to amplify her efforts in community leadership and nonprofit work. Her experience highlights the importance of understanding your “why” before taking the leap into grad school. Milanna emphasizes that taking time to reflect on what you hope to gain—beyond simply career advancement—can help clarify the right program and concentration for you. Resilience and Prioritization Milanna’s journey wasn’t without challenges. Just two years before starting her MBA, she faced a life-threatening medical event that led to a disability. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience and prioritization. Through deliberate time management—scheduling dedicated days for reading, assignments, collaboration, and, most importantly, self-care—she was able to thrive academically while navigating significant personal challenges. Her advice? “Prioritize yourself in this process, because you are the only thing that’s going to get you through this.” Building Connections and Skills for Real-World Impact The episode also explores how the right program can foster meaningful connections with peers and professors, both locally and nationwide. Milanna shares how her concentration in organizational leadership equipped her with vital skills in policy analysis, negotiation, and team motivation—skills she now uses daily in her role on city council and in nonprofit initiatives. Looking Beyond the Finish Line Finally, Milanna encourages prospective grad students to focus less on the distant goal of graduation and more on the growth that can happen each semester. By setting incremental goals and remaining open to new experiences and knowledge, you can maximize what you take away from your studies. Milanna’s story is a powerful reminder that graduate school is about more than just earning a degree; it’s about shaping who you are and how you impact the world. Ready to be inspired? Tune in to this episode of Victors in Grad School and start your own journey with a fresh perspective. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Milanna Jones [00:00:03]: Where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to. Milanna Jones [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week, every week. I love being on this journey with you, and I call it a journey. I know I do, every week. But it is truly a journey because no matter where you are, you're thinking about graduate school. Whether it's you're at the very beginning, you're just starting out that process where you're thinking for yourself, is this the right thing for you? Or you could be further along in the process. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:40]: Maybe you applied, maybe you got accepted, you're getting ready to start graduate school. Or maybe you're in graduate school and you see that light at the end of the tunnel and you're figuring out what you're going to do next. Wherever you are in this journey, there are things that you can do to be successful. And that's why this show exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences, different backgrounds that can share with you the journey that they went on as they got their own graduate degree. And today we got another great guest. Milanna Jones is with us, and Milanna Jones is a city council member for the city of Pontiac, and she just finished up her graduate degree, her MBA degree at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have her here to tell her own story and to share that with you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:26]: Milanna, thanks so much for being here today. Milanna Jones [00:01:29]: Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis, for having me here. My name is Milanna Jones. I am currently the city councilwoman for District 2 of Pontiac, and I'm a recent graduate from University of Michigan, Flint. I received my MBA with a concentration in organizational leadership in August this year, August 2025. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: Always a good feeling when you get to walk across that stage and get to that light at the end of the tunnel. So one of the questions that I wanted to start with was really to take you back in time, because I know you did your undergraduate work at Purdue Global. And at some point during that period of time, as you were going through that undergraduate degree in business administration, you were involved, you did a lot of different things, and you saw that light at the end of the tunnel. But at some point within either your undergraduate degree or that time between your undergraduate degree and when you decided to start in graduate school, you made a decision for yourself, which Was that you wanted to take that step. Bring me back to that moment. What was going through your head and why did you decide that graduate school was the right step at that time? Milanna Jones [00:02:37]: So going back to that moment, which would precisely be August 2022, as someone who was already heavily involved in community leadership, I was looking for the opportunity to really strengthen those leadership skills. I was heavily involved with nonprofit work, two different 501C3s to be specific. And I just knew that the MBA was the route that I wanted to go at that time. Although I had not taken the steps to pursue it. I wanted to the tools to lead more effectively, more proactively, strategically, rather than reactively, which is, you know, now reflecting, which is what I was doing at the bachelor level. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:16]: You were thinking about that. You made that decision, you decided that you were going to take that next step. I know there was about a year between that August 2022 that you mentioned and when you decided to start it in August of 2023. So during that period of time, I'm sure you did your research. You. You had to figure out for yourself, what, what am I looking for in this process? What kind of program is going to be right for me? Is it right down the road? Is it further away? I mean, you did a global program. Is it going to be in Michigan? Is it going to be somewhere else? Walk me through that process for yourself. What was going through your head in regards to the things that were most important to you? Why were those the most important? And ultimately you decided to go to the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:00]: What made you finally decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Milanna Jones [00:04:05]: So during that year gap between my bachelor's and starting with U of M Flint, I did take a couple of graduate level courses with Purdue Global. At that time, I realized that I wanted to look for a program, potentially one that was more interactive, Something that helped me acquire the practical skills of working with other people and additional academic rigor. Which then brings us back to the question of why um Flint? Um Flint was the only school that I applied to. It was my first choice, my first preferred choice. And although I tell myself, don't put all your eggs in one basket, I was determined to pursue U of M Flint. I read the website word for word many times while I was constructing my statement of purpose, going through the application process, and soon going on to meet with my academic advisor who marveled over how much information I retained about the program and each specific concentration. I knew exactly which one fit the best based on the description online and based on my conversation with others who have been in the Wolverine family now, it's worth mentioning that previously I did attend University of Michigan Dearborn and my mother and both of my grandparents are all graduates from U of M. One went to U of M Dearborn and two went to U of M Ann Arbor. Milanna Jones [00:05:28]: Which then brings us back to the question, why U of M Flint? For me, why am I the first to pursue this campus? And specifically it is because of the flexibility offered in the program and the high quality of academic rigor. There are many wonderful professors. There are two specific, in my mind that really pushed me outside of my comfort zone. While supporting me, I felt their commitment to really helping me learn and achieve the tools that I wanted in my personal life and in my professional experiences. So U of M Flint was, was initially my only choice. And now reflecting on this journey really solidifies why I gravitated there. That's where I was meant to be. That's where I connected most with the professors and with my peers. Milanna Jones [00:06:15]: I've developed close relationships with colleagues in Michigan and out of the state just from being here and working with U of M Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:23]: Now, for every student that goes into graduate school there, there truly is a transition that they go through. There's a transition as into graduate school. A transition as you go through graduate school and you found success, you graduated like we just talked about this past year. And as you think back to this experience in coming into graduate school, going through graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school experience? Milanna Jones [00:07:01]: It's interesting because of my unique experience entering the graduate program. When I started in 2023, I was just two years out from a life threatening medical tragedy. I spent months in the hospital. I am physically disabled. And it created a challenge engaging with other people while living in those circumstances. So what I needed to do to find success was really commit to prioritization and time management. And maybe other grad students say this as well, but I want to break it down specifically. So there were, there was some days where I just knew I had to focus on my own health and I couldn't look at any of the school related projects. Milanna Jones [00:07:46]: There were some days that I knew I needed to dedicate to reading, reading through the material before I even glanced at the assignment. So what I did was I was intentional with my schedule. I reserved Sundays for rest, Mondays and Tuesdays, depending on how the Weeks go for the schools, a couple of days solely for reading, and then after that had to commit to the work itself. And collaborating with others was more so full time. I would say I even did that on Sundays, which became more fun as time went on. But I had to, you know, really dig deep within myself and focus on my own self health in order to achieve success in the UM MBA program. And that is really one of the biggest suggestions I would give to any incoming grad student. Aside from the work and aside from, you know, the stress and the deadlines, you really have to prioritize yourself in this process because you are the only thing that's going to get you through this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:43]: So you did complete your degree and you are now a graduate of the University of Michigan, Flint. You've got that MBA in hand. Now that you've completed that degree. How do you feel that the graduate degree has prepared you for the work that you're doing in city council, but also the next steps in other things that you're planning to do in nonprofit or other work in the future? Milanna Jones [00:09:07]: Because I chose the organizational leadership concentration, the skills that I gained really most prepare me to do policy analysis and implement team motivation. I think that is worth mentioning twice. You know, emphasizing team motivation and implementing initiatives in a diverse community is one of the biggest takeaways that I have gotten from the U of M Flint MBA program. Specifically because those courses that really delve into negotiations and organizational behavior, those provide the real world skills and necessary knowledge to navigate any business transaction or potentially conflict in the community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:49]: As you look back at your graduate education and the experience that you had going through that graduate degree for yourself, and you think about others that are thinking about graduate school, whether it be for an MBA or something else. What are some tips that you might offer to others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Milanna Jones [00:10:12]: I would actually suggest that they step away from their end result because I think oftentimes individuals focus on a career or they have a job that they are striving to advance to. And I think that line of thinking really limits what you can take away from this program. So upon entering, I would recommend for students to look at the next year. What do they want to build upon in the next year and what sequence of courses are they taking to help them get there. And that's how individuals can truly align their interests and their personal values with the different concentration that are available at U of M Flint. Because the classes that you take, they're going to provide you with those tools that you need to advance yourself to the next level, of course. But looking in the shorter term, I think will help students or any incoming graduate student attain success faster and more efficiently, because we are looking more at the immediate next level, the pathway that you need to take to advance yourself each year. And that's how by the end of the two years, you get to the point of you're now a graduate, you obtain these skills in all of these different sectors because you took it one step at a time, or even break it down to one semester at a time. Milanna Jones [00:11:37]: What do you want to get better at by the end of the semester and then commit to that one goal at a time? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:43]: Well, Milanna, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for sharing this part of your journey. I know your journey's not over, but there's still time. There's still time and you'll be using this degree now for many years to come. But I truly want to say thank you for coming here today, for sharing these words of wisdom, and I wish you all the best. Milanna Jones [00:12:03]: Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis. It was my pleasure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:05]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare today. Be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37177865

Crafting an Artistic Journey: Shelby Newport’s Lessons from Grad School 07/07/2025

Crafting an Artistic Journey: Shelby Newport’s Lessons from Grad School Are you considering grad school but feeling unsure about the process, the expectations, or even where to start? The latest episode of Victors in Grad School is a perfect listen for anyone navigating these questions. Host welcomes , Program Director for the Arts Administration program at the University of Michigan-Flint, for a candid conversation about finding success—and fulfillment—through graduate education. Shelby’s journey is a relatable one. She takes listeners back to her undergraduate days at Cornell College, where a mix of curiosity and an honest assessment of her skills led her to pursue further education. Recognizing that she needed more specialized training to reach her career goals in costume design, Shelby set her sights on an MFA—a common terminal degree in the arts. Her story of researching programs, attending the nerve-wracking (but rewarding) University and Resident Theater Association (URTA) interviews, and ultimately choosing Purdue for its supportive faculty and fit with her aspirations offers an inside look at the decision-making process for prospective grad students. A central theme in the episode is that grad school is a journey—often challenging, always transformative, and rarely linear. Shelby opens up about the transition from undergrad to graduate student, emphasizing that the switch isn’t just academic; it’s personal, too. Learning to “dress the part” and step into the role of both student and teacher was part of her process, as was embracing the intense, focused workload that a graduate program demands. Shelby’s advice for current and prospective students is refreshing in its honesty. She speaks about the importance of being open to change, both in yourself and in your career path. Sometimes, the direction you envision at the start isn’t where you’ll end up—and that’s not only okay, but often leads to unexpected opportunities and growth. Her own path led from regional theater work to a fulfilling career teaching and program direction, and her network—built by seizing opportunities and following her interests—has played a crucial role every step of the way. For anyone considering grad school or already in the midst of it, this episode is packed with valuable insights. Shelby Newport’s story is a reminder that while the journey may be unpredictable, your openness, effort, and willingness to grow will serve you well. Tune in to hear her story—you’ll walk away inspired and a little more prepared for your own graduate school adventure. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Where we have conversations with students, alumni. And experts about what it takes to. Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited that you're back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey together. As you are looking at graduate school, thinking about graduate school, maybe you've applied to graduate school. No matter where you are, you are truly on a journey, because graduate school is a journey. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes some planning to not only get in, but get through. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:44]: And that's what this podcast is all about. It's to provide you with some of those tools that you need, those tools for your toolbox that will help you to be able to find success and sooner. And that's why every week I bring you different guests with different experiences, people that have gone to graduate school before you to share some of their own experiences and allow for you to be able to learn from the things that they learned along the way as well. This week, we've got another great guest. Shelby Newport is with us, and Shelby is the program director for the Arts Administration Program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited to be able to have her here, to have her talk a little bit about her own experiences and learn from her. Shelby, thanks so much for being here here today. Shelby Newport [00:01:26]: Yeah, thank you. This is exciting to talk about and remember my journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:31]: Well, I'm really excited that you're here today, and it is a journey, and I think one of the things that I would love to do is kind of take you back in time because I know that you did your bachelor's degree at Cornell College and in theater in art, and then at some point during that time during your undergrad, you made a choice that you were going to continue on to get the mfa, and you did go and get an mfa. But bring me back to that point in your thinking and why you chose to go further and to go on. Shelby Newport [00:02:03]: Yeah, that moment is really a specific moment for me. I mean, I can sort of put myself in the position. I was a work study student in the costume shop at Cornell College and learning skills. But Cornell College is a small, private liberal arts college in Iowa, and our faculty was relatively small, taught me so many things, and it was the best place for me, but I didn't have really specific training in costume design and construction. And so, you know, sitting there doing my Work study job, working on a production, thinking. I think it was basically the, the end of my junior year, my third year in school, I had gone away and worked in the summer at different summer professional companies. Colorado Shakespeare Festival for, for two summers in a RO was thinking about where do I want to move? What is next? What is the job that I want? And knowing that there was going to be a lot of jobs, but what was that next step? And I felt like I didn't have the skills I needed with only my one year left of undergrad to do the job. Like I was leaning towards Chicago and working professionally in theater. Shelby Newport [00:03:14]: And so I needed more skills. And the mfa, the Master of Fine Arts, is a terminal degree in our arts field and it is a doing degree. So I knew that with intensive three years in a program that I would hopefully leave those three years with more skills than I had at that time. And of course, as it happens, during the journey, you find out other things about yourself and who you know, where you want to go and who you want to be. And I, I gained a lot of different skills that I couldn't have expected. So my path and the job I wanted to do changed during those three years. But I decided that I wanted to go right away and not take time off between undergrad and graduate school now. Shelby Newport [00:03:53]: And you made the decision to go to Purdue. Purdue University. And there's a lot of MFA programs all across the country. And I'm sure you did some, some review, some research to try to determine for yourself what was the best program for you. Talk to me about that search process and what you had to do to come to that final conclusion of going to Purdue. Shelby Newport [00:04:16]: Yeah, in the arts we have this, I think, somewhat unique organization called erda. The acronym is University and Resident Theater Association. And that organization run interviews and auditions for MFA programs, among other things, as a, as an organization and association of university programs. And so at that time they ran three interview dates where you went in person in New York, Chicago or San Francisco. You signed up for those and you set up a table, basically a booth for yourself, your portfolio and a board, maybe some samples of your work. And so I selected the New York one and my boyfriend at the time, my husband, now we drove to New York, New York from Iowa with my things and parked my Jetta in New York City and stayed in a fancy hotel, set up my booth and you set up your area, your table. Then you leave for four hours and then you come back and they give you a list of the grad schools that want to interview you. And then you have, I think it was 10 or 15 minutes with each of the school representatives that wanted to meet you. Shelby Newport [00:05:22]: And then after that, I think you got a piece of paper that said, like, next step interviews with your next tier. And in our field, it's always like, oh, how many IRTA interviews did you get? Oh, how many did you get? And there's probably 40 school representatives at these. And they're the. Mostly the major programs. The really top tier MFA programs like Yale don't go to this. They don't need to recruit in that way. So it's that next tier of major universities. University of Iowa, Purdue, Florida has a great program. Shelby Newport [00:05:56]: University of North Dakota, Montana. Like, those programs were all there and talking to you. So you're meeting someone, maybe the costume designer, maybe it's another designer, because all the design students are doing this at the same time. And it's a real fast speed dating moment of like, tell me about your program, I'll tell you about myself. Do we click? I don't know, is there chemistry? So I had a few really great ones. I think my number was nine. I think I had nine on my list of people who wanted to talk to me. So that's reasonable, right? And of that 9, 4 sort of showed real interest and, like, felt like a pretty good match. Shelby Newport [00:06:32]: Purdue was in that and University of Wisconsin, Madison was in that group, and then University of Maryland was in that group. And I really liked the faculty that I met with. They seemed to like the direction that I was going, that had art and theater blended in it. I didn't. I wasn't a purist in my undergrad. And then Purdue actually offered, you know, you're driving back from New York to Iowa. If you want to stop in Indiana, we'll put you up and you can see the house or can see the university. We just built a new building. Shelby Newport[00:07:00]: Come check it. And so the free room for the undergrad was a real draw. So we stopped there and checked it out, and the new building was a real draw. But my, the thing that really hooked me was the faculty member. And the faculty member, Joel Ebarb remains a good friend and mentor now, and he was the reason I selected that place. And he told me something on that day that I think really shaped my choice. And that is, do you think you want to be a Broadway designer or a film and television designer? And I said, no, I don't think I do. All right, well, then find a school that matches the kind of work you want to do. Shelby Newport [00:07:35]: And Joel Worked in Chicago, he was a regional designer. He had a couple of international things to his name, but he was an academic and an educator. And he said, do you want to teach? I think so. And so find the school that does that. If you want to be a Broadway designer, go to New York and go to a school on the east coast, because those connections are going to do that for you. And so that really started to shape that next set of journey of months of like, what does this look like for me? And why is location of graduate school important? And I don't think I ever thought about that before. Shelby Newport [00:08:05]: He said that you ultimately did choose to go to Purdue. They selected you, you selected them, got to that point. And any student that moves into a graduate program, there is going to be a transition. There's definitely a transition in the way that you're educated. There's a transition in the expectations of your faculty, the expectations that you put on yourself. You found success, you got through the program, you graduated, you got that mfa. So as you think back to those transitions that you went through going from undergrad into your mfa, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire journey? Shelby Newport [00:08:53]: I mean, ultimately, yes, I was successful, but it was really hard. And it's a three year program. MFA's in different areas are in, are different lengths. So my husband also has an MFA and his was a two year intensive program. So they have different, they have different things, but mine was three years. But I think that middle zone, no matter how long your program is, that halfway point, is really the hardest moment. And when I think about lows of my program, it is that moment you're really questioning why you're doing this, who you are, what's going to come out on the other end. And at the end feels so far the success of what that, how that success is going to look. Shelby Newport [00:09:31]: It seems so far away. So I think what I did to set myself up for success, I guess the things that come to mind because I was also becoming an adult, because I chose to go right from undergrad, I was relatively young and my partner and I, we decided to move to Indiana together. So we graduate from Cornell and we move to Indiana together. We have our first apartment, we're like figuring out how to be adults and make our own dinners and like be pay the bills, do life. So I think for me that setting up for success was just stepping into an adult. And that's what graduate School is going to be. And it's going to be different than undergrad. I'm going to step into this. Shelby Newport [00:10:09]: I also had a graduate teaching assistantship, so I taught not my first semester, but the second semester and then continued to teach every semester a class. So that helped me become that different kind of student because I was teaching undergraduate students sewing, stage costuming and stage makeup classes. And I think that even though maybe I didn't feel like an adult all the time, like a real grownup, teaching that class helped me live into that reality. So. And as a costume designer, that clothes and dress. Dress for the job you want, right? That kind of philosophy or. I also really like the mantra of when you look good, you feel good. So I have really distinct memories in grad school of like, dressing for the part. Shelby Newport [00:10:51]: Like I would, you know, I go and I feel adult and I'm ready to go. And I think that the, the, the biggest difference of the educational model for me was the intensity and the specificity of the kind of classes that you're taking, which I know for lots of different kind of graduate programs, but you've made a choice to move in, to funnel down into a more specific path. And had I maybe been a little bit more mentally prepared for that, that could have helped that second year intensity. I think, because you just have no break from the content that is this thing that you've selected. It's all that. You don't get to go to your anthropology class and switch your brain to something else. You gotta find other ways to relax and be an adult and stretch these other parts of your life. So anyways, lots of stories there about how I found, I think, but ultimately it was stepping into the role. Shelby Newport [00:11:43]: And even when I didn't feel like it, dressing the part and being ready to learn and teach. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:48]: Completely understand. Now, you finished up the mfa, and I know that that professor initially asked you, do you want to teach? And you got to the end of the mfa and you did decide to teach and talk to me about that because every student has to figure out for themselves what direction they want, want to go. And you could have gone to regional theater, you could have gone to national theater, you could have done many different things with that degree. You chose to continue on and you, you got a position here at the University of Michigan, Flint, and started teaching. But talk to me about that decision process for yourself. Shelby Newport [00:12:28]: Yeah, so some, some was decided for me. So my partner at the time, you know, he was there with me three years working and kind of paying the bills. And so we decided that after that was his turn to pursue his mfa. So he went through a very different process of selecting an MFA program, but ultimately found Cranbrook Art Academy, which is in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. And so that brought us to Michigan first. So we knew we were going to move here. And then my plan was to pay the bills and figure it out and decide what that looked like. So we moved to the area. Shelby Newport [00:13:00]: I had sent out a lot of resumes, academic, applied for a lot of things, but not a ton of bites at that moment. And then once we were here, I said yes to a variety of jobs. I did a student film once I was in Detroit and the film industry in Detroit, in I guess this was 2009. There were lots of incentives for Michigan film companies to produce films in Michigan. So I jumped on quite a few of those when we first moved here on a gig basis. And then one of those CV letters that I had sent out earlier in the year. And that kind of network connection yielded a phone call that said, I'm the chair at University of Michigan, Flint, and I have one class that I need filled. And I heard that you moved here. Shelby Newport [00:13:42]: And I think I got your resume, but I found you through another faculty member through an organization. We know each other. So he gave me your phone number. Do you want to come teach for us? And I was like, sure. And actually this was like three days after school had started because they didn't have an instructor, so can you teach next week? And so I was like, sure, let's figure this out. So I did my first year of teaching at University of Michigan, Fluent as a lecturer, one class in the fall. And then I taught four classes in the winter. And then they ran a search for a tenure stream faculty member. Shelby Newport [00:14:12]: I think your original question is, like, how did I find that? But it felt right. Like, it felt like, oh, yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be sharing this knowledge and being an exciting, interested again, like relatively young in my career. Dress the part and step in front of the classroom and teach some intro to Theater class to University of Michigan Flint student. And then each step of the way it was like, less. Let's cross that bridge when we get there. So I didn't worry too much about that tenure position. It kind of. I mean, luckily it found me and I was a good candidate for them. Shelby Newport [00:14:45]: And I had that trial period. I didn't worry too much about tenure and getting that next step. I just said, like, if we're here, I'm going to do a good job. And I'M going to pursue regional work. And what would get me tenure at the University of Michigan? As if it's my job, right? Like if I'm. I'm going to. It is my job. So I'm going to move forward in that process as if we're going to stay here. Shelby Newport [00:15:04]: And we didn't know what we were going to do then after that. But ultimately we've made Michigan our home and both of us have found creative communities that have allowed us to do both professional creative work. So I've made lots of connections over the last 15 years with professional regional companies that have then provided me that professional costume designer work and the teaching work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:25]: You've recently stepped into the role of director of the Arts Administration Master's degree program, which is a Rackham graduate degree here at the University of Michigan, Flint. For many years, you worked very closely with your undergraduate students and you still do. And now you're working with graduate students. Talk to me about that transition and what it's now like to not only be a director of a graduate program, but also in working with graduate students. What's that like? And what are you learning from that? Shelby Newport [00:15:57]: This was an easy yes, as they say, to step into this role. I was really excited to think differently about this program after the past director had left the unit university. And the... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37176845

Navigating the Graduate School Journey: Lessons in Success from Dr. Cam McLeman 06/30/2025

Navigating the Graduate School Journey: Lessons in Success from Dr. Cam McLeman Considering graduate school or already deep in your studies? Navigating this journey can feel overwhelming—full of choices, challenges, and the constant pursuit of personal and professional growth. This week’s “Victors in Grad School” episode is a must-listen for anyone at any stage of that journey, as sits down with , director of the Data Analytics program at University of Michigan-Flint, to share valuable insights that will resonate with students, alumni, and educators alike. Dr. McLeman’s story is one many can relate to: a passionate undergraduate uncertain about career direction, he experimented with disciplines before returning to his true academic love—mathematics. His decision to pursue a PhD, driven by a thirst for deeper knowledge rather than a prescribed career path, will inspire those who view learning as a lifelong process. But his journey didn’t stop with earning that doctorate—transitioning into the realm of data analytics, Dr. McLeman demonstrates the power of adapting skills and embracing new opportunities as the landscape of higher education and industry evolves. The conversation dives deep into practical wisdom for succeeding at the graduate level. Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate studies, Dr. McLeman notes, is much like moving from high school to college—you’re expected to take far more ownership of your pathway. The self-driven nature of graduate school requires not just academic diligence but also proactive organization, advocacy, and a willingness to push beyond comfort zones. Dr. McLeman highlights the importance of building connections: with faculty, with industry, and especially with peers who are further along the journey. “Don’t struggle in silence,” he urges, pointing to the wealth of support services campuses offer—from academic assistance to mental health and disability support. Success often hinges on reaching out and taking advantage of these resources before issues become overwhelming. Perhaps the most compelling theme fro TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited that you're back again this week, every week. I love being able to bring you on this journey because it is a journey. You have made a choice. You've made a choice that either you're looking at graduate school, maybe you've applied to graduate school, maybe you got accepted to graduate school. No matter where you are, whether you're just applying, you're in graduate school or beyond, this is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:38]: And you have definite things that you can learn to be able to prepare yourself not only to make the transition into graduate school, but things that you can do to be able to be even more successful as you go through that entire graduate school process. And that's why this show exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to pick up some tools for your toolbox, to be able to help you to figure out some things that you might even be able to do right today. Or as you go further on, to help you in this journey. Today we got another great guest. Dr. Cam McLeman is here. And Cam is the director of our data analytics program here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:25]: And he had his own graduate school journey that we're gonna be talking about today. Also works with graduate students, so he definitely has some perspectives on what it's like to work with the graduate students and what he's seen with them. So I'm really excited to have him here, and I am really looking forward to having this conversation today. Cam, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:01:44]: Thank you very much for having me, Chris. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: It is my pleasure. I am really excited to be able to talk to you today, to be able to delve a little bit deeper into your own journey and see what we can learn along the way. And I know you did your undergrad work at Harvey Mudd College and got a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics. And at some point during that time during your undergraduate work, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to continue on with your education. Bring me back to that point and talk to me about kind of what you were thinking and what made you decide that you wanted to go on to graduate school. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:02:15]: Yeah, so I came into undergrad pretty confident that I wanted to do mathematics. In some capacity. I also had a passing interest in computer science and physics and engineering, but I knew that math had to be part of it. And as I travers my undergraduate degree, I dabbled in all of those things. I picked up a second major in computer science, and then I dropped that, decided it wasn't for me, and I picked up a second major in physics, and I dropped that and decided it wasn't for me. And every time I just came back to math, and that's what I found my passion in. And by the end of my undergraduate degree, it wasn't so much that I was chasing a specific career, it was just that I knew I was not done learning math. I couldn't choose not to keep going. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:02:57]: So. So grad school was in some sense just the natural continuation of my learning process at that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:04]: So as you made that decision that you were going to keep learning, you wanted to keep going and continue your education, I'm sure you did some exploration, you did some research, you tried to figure out for yourself where was that next step. And ultimately, I know you made the choice to go to the University of Arizona to get a PhD in mathematics. Talk to me about that journey for yourself and what made you decide first, a PhD in mathematics. But also, what did you go through? What were some of the things that you were looking for? What made you ultimately end up choosing the University of Arizona over the many other PhD programs that are out there across the United States and beyond? Dr. Cam McLeman [00:03:44]: Yeah, that's a great question. And to be fair, it was not an easy discussion. The choices when you're graduating from an undergraduate institution, especially, I think in a STEM field, are pretty overwhelming. There are industry options and commercial options to consider. Those were not my particular, you know, appeal. That was wasn't what I was interested in. I was interested in doing more academics. So then you have the question of do you go for a Master's degree or a PhD degree if you want to keep going, and in mathematics, that the choice is a little bit different than in some fields in that a master's degree is something you would pick if you knew what career you wanted to go into, and it had a master's degree requirement to it. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:04:25]: Whereas a PhD degree is the academic degree. If you want to go for the full doctorate, knowing that along the way, you essentially pick up a master's degree. So for me, the choice was clear because I knew that if I needed to bail out at some point along the way, decided that the PhD wasn't for me, then most PhD programs give you that that exit ramp to exit with just a Master's degree just is not meant as pejoratively there, just earlier than the PhD and then sort of every stage in your academic career from there on, you are constrained by availability. So I probably applied to a dozen grad schools for my PhD program. That's out of a choice of several hundred. So this was finding the programs that appealed to me both geographically and in terms of what expertise their faculty had. And cost was a factor, the likelihood that they would be able to subsidize part of my education. And in the end, the University of Arizona offered the best total package there. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:05:33]: I had never been to Arizona. I did not know that it would reach 110 degrees some summers. That was a climate based struggle for me during my time there. But in terms of the quality of the faculty and the aid package they were able to offer me, that just rose above the rest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:52]: Now, as you make that transition and you go to graduate school, there is definitely a transition, because the way that you're taught as an undergraduate student is not going to be the same way that you're going to be taught as a graduate student. There's different expectations not only of your faculty, but also pressure that you put on yourself. Expectations that you have on yourself for the ultimate goal that you're working, working to attain. You found success, you ended up getting that PhD, getting that graduate degree. As you think back to that transition for yourself, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Dr. Cam McLeman [00:06:37]: That's a great question. Let me start by a preliminary story, which is that in my role right now, I deal with a lot of the transition from high school students to undergraduate students, students telling them what to expect in their first year of undergrad. And what I tell them is that this will be a transition in the sense that there's not going to be people holding your hand through every step of this process. There's not going to be someone forcing you to come to class and telling you after you get done with your sports practice, you have to sit down for an hour and do your homework. Undergrad, you're much more responsible for setting your own schedule. That transition from high school to undergraduate is mirrored again in the transition from undergraduate to graduate. Here, not only do you have to come to class of your own volition and do your homework when you're supposed to, you need to also be in charge of managing your course selection and your advisor selection so that you're hitting your life goals. It is a matter of being much more self driven in terms of organization. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:07:36]: If you are not motivated to complete the degree, you're not going to do well in the degree. If you take the approach that all you have to do is sit through the classes and you'll come out the other side with a degree, you may get the degree, but you won't be on that success path for accelerating and whatever your post degree goals were. So I think to come back to your question of what measures to take to ensure success, it is about claiming that ownership of your journey. It is about making sure that at each step you're not blindly following what you think will be the easiest path to the degree, but rather deliberately choosing paths that might be harder if it means that at the end you'll be a better master of your subject. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]: I mentioned at the beginning you're working with undergraduate students, but you're also working with graduate students now in a new data analytics program. And I guess I'm interested to dig a little deeper on what you've learned from students that you've been working with at the graduate level now versus the undergraduate level, either with what they've been challenged with or what you've had to work with them with as they've made that transition in and through graduate school. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:08:45]: Yeah, so our graduate program in data analytics is a very interesting case and perhaps a bit of a contrast to the story that I just told in that it is essentially always a terminal degree for students in that program, that it is very career focused, that students in that program tend to come out very well prepared for jobs and not typically with the intent of going on to get a PhD in data analytics. What I found from our students in our program is that they hit those hallmarks that I was just talking about. They come to this degree knowing what industry they want to go work in. And that's in part the design of the program. So just to give a very brief overview, the data analytics program is sort of half your courses skills based, getting computer science and math background to prepare you. Then the other half is discipline specific. If you want to go into healthcare admin, you take a bunch of courses in the College of Health Sciences learning about healthcare. If you want to go into business analytics, you take half your courses with the School of Management. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:09:44]: So students come into our program with a pretty good sense of which area of industry they want to go into. And then it is sort of my job as advisor to help match their career goals with the courses that they would take to get there. And sometimes, and I think the best students push back and say, actually in this field, which I might not know about personally, it's better to have this skill than this skill. So I was hoping I could take this class instead of this class, in which case that's absolutely fine. And we figured that out in the system. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:14]: You got your PhD in mathematics, you're still teaching in mathematics and working with mathematics students at the same time. You're now doing data analytics. Talk to me about that interplay and what made you maybe pivot a little bit or change a little bit in your direction and kind of the students that you're working with now at the graduate level? Dr. Cam McLeman [00:10:36]: Yeah, it was a career shift for me. It is happening in mathematics as a whole that we are finding increased application of mathematics in just about every field. Data analytics and data science being sort of the venue for using mathematics to solve problems everywhere. So I've already mentioned healthcare administration and business analytics. These are places where mathematics has not always had a strong foothold, but rather more business focused classes. And I think what we're seeing all across the globe is parts of industry recognizing that the management of data is increasingly important. And that is a nice segue to my math skills, because math is a critical component of data analytics, but it's not the only one. So what this program did that was somewhat revolutionary on campus was have these interdisciplinary courses that you could have a strong math core, but the degree is not about mathematics. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:11:30]: And so for me personally, it was a convenient place for me to use my mathematics skills, transition into a place where I could speak more intellectually, more intelligently about data analytics and data science. And also I've learned a lot about healthcare administration and business analytics in my role here, which is something I've never had training in. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:49]: Now, as you think back to your own graduate school journey, you think about the journeys of the graduate students that you're working with now. What are some tips that you might offer to other individuals thinking about graduate school, whether it be in mathematics, data analytics, or any other field that would help them find success sooner? Dr. Cam McLeman [00:12:10]: Yeah, I will say my answer to this is to do the opposite of only going to your classes and sitting through lectures and doing homework. That is the most insular, I will say introverted approach, which is my default approach. So I sympathize with it. But the path to success is making contact with everyone you can. That means as you're thinking about your current degree and where you'd Go after, look at what industry is wanting. Look at the skills that your potential employers will want. Talk to your faculty. You'll get a sense of what they think it looks like to be successful in this field. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:12:43]: And maybe most importantly, talk to the people ahead of you in the program. If you're in a two year program, talk to the students who've already been there for a year. See what their struggles were, see what they wish they had known through their first year about navigating various systems and don't struggle in silence. Particularly in our degree and in our university as a whole, we have all sorts of support mechanisms. If you are struggling either academically or financially or personally or with a disability that you may have just noticed or went undiagnosed, do not keep that information to yourself. Find someone who can help. And here, and I think generally at most higher ed institutions, there are people there whose sole job is to help you with that. So be public, talk to people, figure out who can help and take advantage of those services. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:36]: Great advice and definitely something we've talked about on the show before is that advocacy that you have to have for yourself and you have to be willing to open up and ask for assistance. The piece that Cam mentioned about, even disability services, veterans services, you know, there are many different services that are on campus and sometimes you as a student may say to yourself that you don't want to say anything because you feel like you're going to be stigmatized. Don't do that. Step into it. Ask for the help up front. You might never use it, but at least you have the resource. You've made the contact. You're a known quantity and they are there if you need them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:16]: It doesn't mean that they're going to go out and out you to everybody on campus that they are going to do what you need to be able to be successful and they're not going to know how to help you if you don't advocate for yourself. So definitely make sure that you take advantage of that and ask for those things up front. And even as you're looking at schools, you can start asking those questions up front to be able to make sure that you have those things ready for yourself on day one or maybe it's your second term or beyond. It's when you need it. So great points. Thank you, Cam. I really appreciate your time today. Thank you for sharing your journey and for allowing others a little glimpse into what you experience, but also what you're currently experiencing with other students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:03]: And I truly wish you all the best. Dr. Cam McLeman [00:15:05]: Thanks very much, Chris. I was glad to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:07]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37176325

Finding Your Way: Overcoming Doubt and Defining Success in Graduate School 06/23/2025

Finding Your Way: Overcoming Doubt and Defining Success in Graduate School Embarking on the journey to graduate school can be both exhilarating and overwhelming. In the latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, sits down with , Assistant Director for Counseling and Psychological Services (CAPS) at the , to talk about her winding—and deeply personal—path through higher education. This insightful conversation is packed with valuable lessons and encouragement for anyone considering, or already pursuing, advanced degrees. Embrace Your Own Timeline One of the most powerful themes of this episode is the importance of honoring your unique path. Dr. Tookes shares candidly about taking breaks between each of her degrees—underscoring that there is no "one-size-fits-all" trajectory through academia. She explains how these pauses allowed her to gain hands-on experience (and even chase a dream of being on America’s Next Top Model!) before returning to her studies with renewed clarity and purpose. Her story is a reminder that whether you go straight through or take time off, your educational journey is yours to define. The Power of Real-World Experience Dr. Tookes’ journey highlights the value of real-world experience in shaping academic and career choices. Her early work in a child and family services nonprofit exposed her to social work, therapy, and the complexities of family systems—experiences that informed her eventual focus on counseling psychology. She encourages prospective students to seek out professional experiences, talk with people in the field, and use those insights to refine their goals. Overcoming Self-Doubt and Imposter Syndrome Transitioning to graduate school can trigger self-doubt, especially for those who see themselves as “nontraditional” students. Dr. Tookes bravely discusses her own struggles with imposter syndrome and negative thinking, and shares how reframing her mindset, celebrating small wins, and building a strong support network helped her persevere. Her honesty will resonate with anyone who has ever questioned their abilities or belonged in a program. Seeking Guidance and Paying It Forward Finally, Dr. Tookes emphasizes connecting with advisers, mentors, and peers—not only for academic support but also for personal encouragement. Her journey eventually led her to help other doctoral students as an academic adviser, filling a gap in support she’d wished for in her own experience. If you’ve ever wondered what success in graduate school really looks like, this episode is for you. Listen to Dr. Juanita Tookes and gain practical wisdom, heartfelt encouragement, and a fresh perspective on your own educational path. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint, and really excited to have you back again this week as we are working together, as you're going through this path, this journey that you're on to consider graduate school, go to graduate school, whatever part you are in, it is a journey. I say that every week, but it is so true because for every person, that path, that journey is going to look a little bit different. It's gonna feel a little bit different. You're gonna have to work through the things that that you're challenged with as you're thinking about this and figuring it out if this is the right path for you. And that's why this podcast exists. This podcast is here to help you to be able to demystify the graduate school process, but also to give you some tools for your toolbox to help you in this journey. And I do that every week by introducing you to other people that have gone before you, that have gone to graduate school, that have learned some things along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:17]: Maybe everything went perfectly well. I'm gonna guess to say it didn't all go perfectly, but that you learn along the way and you can learn from these individuals and put those tools in your toolbox to help you to maybe miss that stumbling block. But if not, start planning for it and prepare yourself so that as you hit that stumbling block, you have some tools, you have some resources to draw from that'll help you through that. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Doctor Juanita Tookes is with us, and Doctor Tookes is a the assistant director for the counseling and psychological services, or CAPS, program at the University of Michigan Flint. She did her undergraduate and master's degree both at Wayne State University and then went and got her doctorate degree at Oakland University. And we're gonna talk about that journey that she went on to learn a little bit more about that. I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: Doctor Tuxt, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:02:17]: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. It's always an honor when I'm invited to share my experience. And, of course, I know my experience is individual to me, but I hope something I say can be helpful to someone. So thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:30]: Now, as I said, you did your undergraduate work at Wayne State University. And at some point during that degree in psychology, you made a decision. You made a choice. You decided that you were going to continue on and get that graduate degree. Can you bring me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head? What made you decide that you wanted to do that? Because I know that there was a little bit of time between the bachelor's and the master's as well. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:03]: Yes. So this is such a long time ago. So when I graduated with my undergrad degree in 02/2008, I knew that I wanted to go higher in education. I knew that. I knew that I wanted to be a doctor since I was nine years old. Now at that age, I didn't know that there were different kinds of doctors. I just knew that I wanted to be one. But there is the preview of what you wanna do. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:29]: There is the product of what actually comes out of it. But then there's this middle part called the process. So after I graduated with my undergrad degree, I did not go straight into graduate school. My brain was gone at the end of of my undergrad experience. It took me five years to complete that because I did not go to school in the summer. So it took me a little bit longer. And I just wanted to be without school for a little bit. Like, it was very intellectually challenging. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:58]: It took a lot of my time. It was it was a lot. I was proud of it. I was happy that I did it. But I realized, unlike some of my peers who went straight into grad programs, I wanted to take a break. So what ended up happening is I found out through the psych department about, an internship. It was an internship in a child and family service organization in Detroit, and I applied for that and got it. And so what I did is I did my year internship there, and I got hired on as a full time employee. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:04:30]: And I was doing data entry and analysis for this organization. And I actually was there for a few years. And so the way that I look at it is because sometimes I've heard people think that you just have I've heard both sides of this. So people think that it's bad to take breaks. You need to just go straight through. And it's not bad. I think that whether you take breaks or you go straight through, just make sure that you're making the decision that's best for you. It's not about what other people think. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:04:58]: It's about what's best for you. It was best for me because I got to get some hands on real life experience in the area that I said that I wanted to work in. I knew I wanted to be in the helping professions. I knew that I wanted to study psychology. And so being at a child and family service nonprofit organization allowed me to interact a lot with social workers and therapists. This organization mainly worked with teenagers, so I was able to understand some things about the judicial system in relation to in relation to several things. So drug use, abuse and misuse, family systems. We were working with adjudicated youth, so youth that were who had committed some offenses, and they had to go to the court to get those offenses rectified. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:05:48]: Really learning a lot from the social workers and understanding that area, even though that's not what I was going for. Social work really helped enhance my knowledge about resources in the community that can help families, which were was inclusive of therapy. So my decision to go into grad school after my break was it was kind of like an internal it was an internal thing. I was traveling for two years. I was pursuing interests outside of academics. At this time, I was trying to be America's next top model at this time. So I was traveling and, like, pursuing modeling, trying to get assigned to an agency. I was trying to beg Tyra Banks to let me on her show. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:06:28]: But at the end of a two year period, my dreams had not manifested at that point. And I said, okay. We have to make a decision. Either you're going to continue to pursue this or you're going to get that grad school application done and submitted. And I went with the latter, completed my application to grad school, and then got admitted there. And that's how I started my journey in grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: So in that learning that you went through, you as you said, you you worked with social workers, you saw psychologists, you worked with other individuals. And in those two years, you also had to do some other research. You had to determine what type of program you wanted to be in, what type of focus you wanted to focus on. And I know you ended up going back to Wayne State for a master of arts in counseling psychology. Talk to me about what made you, one, decide on specifically counseling psychology, where you could have done social work, you could have done some other type of psychology. What made you decide specifically on that and not other areas? And then conversely, what made you decide to go back to Wayne State versus another institution that might've had a similar program? Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:07:38]: These are great questions. I'm very happy to share. And something you said before was very important. Remember when I said that I was nine and I knew that I wanted to be a doctor? Well, throughout this process, that idea got refined and specified more and more. So at the end of my undergraduate education, I realized that I really wanted to work with families. I really wanted, which is why I got that internship at the Child and Family Service Organization. As I went through that, I got fine tuned even more because then I had to think, you know, did did I want to work in the school setting? Did I want to work in the community setting? Did I want to work in a hospital? Like, what did I want to do? A lot of these things were still unclear. And this is something that my education was very, very and it was very helpful to me in helping me understand what specifically did I wanna do with a psych degree because there's so many things and so many areas that that you can work in and do. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:08:32]: And so I decided to go back to Wayne State because, honestly, I was not familiar with a lot of college programs. So going through my high school curriculum and even in undergrad, I was not really exposed to a lot of college information. I knew about Wayne State because I grew up, was born, grew up in Detroit, so I knew about Wayne State. But luckily and I I'm not gonna say luckily because it was actually a blessing. I was actually accepted to be a part of a trio program, which was the McNair Scholars Program. That was an amazing program that I was in in undergrad, and this program helped students who wanted to pursue doctoral studies. Now at this point, I knew that I wanted to go into doctoral studies. I just didn't know how. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:09:18]: But this program, in my undergraduate experience, it helped expose me to more college information than I probably would have had if I was not in this program. So, we took college tours, you know, out of state. We were able to work closely with faculty members and do undergrad research, but we were able to, at this time, the GRE was a requirement. So, we got to have tutoring with GRE instructors. We had mentorship. So this really helped me define more and more, seeing other professionals and understanding what the grad application process was like. It really opened my mind to other possibilities of what I wanted to do with my degree. So once I started getting this information, I had already had my eyes focused on Wayne State even with the information that I had gained through the McNair program. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:10:07]: And so I had gotten in, and I decided to then say I wanted to be a marriage and family therapist. So that is the program that I applied to. The curriculum had changed once I got admitted. So it changed from marriage and family therapy to counseling counseling psychology. And I said, okay. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be the same. I wasn't quite sure what to make of the change that was outside of me that had to do with the university. But when I look back on it in in hindsight, I'm appreciative that I did get the counseling psych degree because I am a counselor now, but I started off as a psych major. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:10:42]: So I'm actually dually educated and dually trained in both of those areas. They are not the same, but they have a lot of similarities. So psych has a lot to do with assessment and, really looking into things from the medical model of how to look at a person's problems and physical manifestation of symptoms. Counseling is not like that. Counseling is more open and encompassing of the human and the human experience, and it really discourages looking at people at from a medical, you know, viewpoint. I think both perspectives are helpful, and the fact that I am trained in both helps me have a very enhanced, lens when I am assessing a person's mental and emotional challenges whereas I have to diagnose and things like that. So it's interesting because once I apply for my PhD, that is when I had more knowledge about other programs that I could possibly do my doctorate at. So I didn't really have it for undergrad as far as going to other institutions. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:11:43]: I didn't really have it for my master's program because about time, I really understood that I could be at other places I was already admitted. So I stuck stuck with Wayne State, which was wonderful. It was a wonderful educational journey being at Wayne State. But what the grad program at Wayne State helped me to realize is that there was reasons why I didn't wanna do social work. I worked with a lot of social workers, and then I thought that the work was great, but I realized just the nuances in the helping professions. There's a difference between a psychologist, between a counselor, between a social worker. Again, a lot of similarities, but I didn't think that I wanted to work so much in the community And being that I call social workers community connectors because they know everything about what is in the community to help somebody overcome an obstacle or a problem. There are clinical tracks with social work to where they can do therapy as well. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:12:35]: But I just knew for me that I did not want to do the community kind of component of the helping professions. But it's interesting, though, because even in my learning experience, I did community mental health. So even though I wasn't a social worker, I still worked out in the community doing in home therapy. I did that for a couple of years working with a behavioral clinic. And so that further defined what did I wanna do and what did I not wanna do. And I realized that working in community mental health is was something that as somebody who is trying to be a psychologist, somebody who's trying to be a counselor, at that time, I was still going for my psych license. I didn't wanna do in home therapy. I also had an internship at Detroit Medical Center during my experience. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:13:22]: And even though I really liked working in the hospital, I wasn't quite sure that I wanted that wasn't a fit for me either. So even though I didn't know what I wanted to do, my experiences through grad school helped me understand what I did not want to do, which I think is equally as helpful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:38]: That is helpful. And I think a lot of times that that's what you have to do is you have to whittle it down. And sometimes you don't know. And but luckily, as you go through a graduate program, that hopefully you've done your research going in and that it has at least the initial building blocks. But then as you go through even further, you are able to hyperfocus and and identify even more so what as a part of, let's say, counseling psychology, what do you wanna do in counseling psychology, and what don't you wanna do? Because there's a lot of facets within that as well. Now I mentioned that you ultimately ended up going and getting that doctor degree, became a doctor. You got your doctor of philosophy, your PhD in counseling education and supervision. And, again, with that degree, you went to Oakland University, and you chose to go in that direction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:31]: There were a couple of years between the master's and the doctorate, similar to what we saw from the undergrad to the master's. So talk to me about that and the same decision making process. What made you decide Oakland university? And, decision making process. What made you decide Oakland University and what made you decide that at that time when you started in 2016, what, why was that the right time? Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:14:53]: As you pointed out, I have taken breaks in between every degree and something that I want everyone who's listening to this to understand is your path is your path. It doesn't have to look like anyone else's path. If you have to stop and take a break for whatever reason, either you have to or you want to and then jump back into it later, whether you go straight through, whether you change, you know, maybe you switch, you know, your focus, you know, your area of focus, your major, area of study, like, it's okay. Like, this is all a part of you discovering who you are and understanding what you wanna do in this world. So it's completely okay. I noticed that when I took breaks between my undergrad and grad degree, there was a lot of things that I just didn't understand and I didn't know. And and that's understandable. You know, you're growing, you're learning, you're being exposed to more. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:15:42]: As we know, with undergrad degree, it's pretty well encompassing. You're being, you know, well rounded and exposed to a whole bunch of different, you know, educational areas versus grad school where it's more honed in on a specific focus and area. Between my master's and doctorate degree, I definitely had a better understanding of what I wanted to do, but it wasn't complete yet. But it was definitely more specified than before. So what really encouraged me to apply for my doctorate was I wasn't happy with my with my job at the time. I was working in community mental health. This is when I was doing in home therapy. There at that time, there was not a lot of money in community mental health, so I wasn't getting paid a lot. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:16:24]: And, again,... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/36892365

Navigating the Complexities of Graduate School Admissions: Lessons from Legal Experts 06/16/2025

Navigating the Complexities of Graduate School Admissions: Lessons from Legal Experts Are you thinking about graduate school, but worried about a few bumps in your academic or personal past? This week’s episode of "Victors in Grad School," hosted by , is one you can’t afford to miss. Joined by legal experts and , co-chairs of , the conversation centers around one of the most overlooked—but crucial—aspects of grad school admissions: how to handle disclosures of disciplinary or legal issues, and how to demonstrate personal growth. Facing the Application Questions Head-On Many prospective grad students feel anxiety when applications prompt disclosure of past academic or criminal incidents. Susan and Kristina stress the importance of honesty—reading each prompt carefully and responding truthfully, without oversharing. As Susan puts it, "Answer the prompt, but you don’t have to gut yourself." If more information is needed, universities will ask. Ultimately, omitting required information can be far worse than taking ownership of a past mistake. Lessons in Reflection and Preparedness The episode delves into the power of self-reflection—not just when answering tough application questions, but also when making decisions about when and why to pursue graduate school. Both Susan and Kristina share insights from their own paths and from those of Susan’s children, who benefited from working and reflecting before diving into advanced studies. That pause, they say, can help students make more thoughtful—and ultimately more successful—academic choices. Law School, AI, and the Changing Landscape The advent of AI tools has streamlined research and writing, but Susan and Kristina caution against letting technology replace critical thinking and big-picture analysis, especially for those considering law as a career. Law school, they emphasize, is about so much more than memorization: it’s mental chess, requiring creativity, analysis, and adaptability. Growth, Redemption, and Moving Forward Perhaps the most compelling message of the episode is one of hope. A mistake in your past doesn’t define you forever—what matters is how you move forward. Take steps to show growth connected to the issue, stay out of trouble, and be ready to talk authentically about your journey. Colleges and licensing boards are often open to stories of redemption and resilience. If you’re plotting your path to graduate school—or helping someone who is—this episode is packed with practical advice, honest reflections, and encouraging reminders that your journey, no matter how winding, can still lead to success. Tune in to hear more insights from Susan Stone and Kristina Supler—and take your grad school journey with confidence! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited that you're back with us this week. And every week we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it truly is. No matter if you're going to business school, law school, med school, doesn't matter, you have made a decision that you want to go to graduate school and no matter where you're gonna be going, it's going to take time, it's gonna take effort, it's gonna take perseverance to get through. And I'm not saying that to scare you away. I'm telling you that because there are things that you can do right now and things that you can do as you go through graduate school to prepare you for that journey that you're going to be on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:58]: And that's why this show exists. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can give you some different resources and some some hints, some tips, some things to put in your own toolbox to help you on that journey. And today, we've got two great guests with us. Susan Stone and Christina Supler are with us, and they are the co chairs of KJK's Student and Athlete Defense Title IX Practice Group. This is a group that's dedicated to support students in crisis and addressing their legal needs. And this is a topic that we haven't really talked about. We haven't talked about as you're going into applying to graduate school, many times on the application, you're going to see questions that'll ask you if you've had any criminal charges that you've had in the past, and you have to disclose those things to be able to be able to apply. And sometimes that scares people. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:57]: And we'll talk about some of that today. And we'll also talk about Susan and Christina's own journey in going to graduate school themselves. But I'm really excited to have Susan and Christina here. Susan, Christina, thanks so much for being here today. Susan Stone [00:02:12]: Thanks for having us. Kristina Supler [00:02:14]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here. As I said, we haven't really talked about this topic before. But before we jump into that topic, on the legal side, I love getting to know both of you a little bit more in regards to the journey that you went on because both of you are lawyers and you went through graduate school. And I guess for you, as you were considering and thinking, take me back to that point where you said to yourself, I wanna go to graduate school. What was the reason and what made you to make that decision that you wanted to take that next step? Kristina Supler [00:02:48]: Well, I am one of those bizarre, peculiar people who, as a child, knew exactly what I wanted to do, and then I actually did it. So your question, Chris, takes me back to my childhood. I think about being a student in fourth grade at Notre Dame Elementary School, and we had a career project. We had to do a report on what do you wanna be when you grow up. And I said, mom, dad, I wanna be a lawyer. And so my mother connected me with a real estate lawyer, which is kind of funny because, of course, I don't do anything in that realm. But did a project, did some interviews, learned more about what it is to be a lawyer. And fast forward, went through undergrad at Boston University where I obtained a degree in European history, highly useful, drawn my degree every day in my life, and then ultimately obtained my law degree from Cleveland Marshall College of Law. Kristina Supler [00:03:39]: So I love what I do, and I'm happy to be here today to talk about what we do. What about you, Susan? Susan Stone [00:03:44]: I'm gonna be a lawyer and answer but not answer, Chris, because I am attending my daughter's graduation from Wharton where she's getting her MBA, and I also have a son at MBA school at Cornell. I am reflecting because it's graduation time on the choices they made versus the choice I made and what advice I would give to people. I also have the same story as Christina, so I won't bore you with that. Always wanted to be a lawyer, went straight through. But I see through my two adult children that both of them took time after undergrad and worked and reflected before they went into graduate school, and I really think that was the smarter decision. It is every parent's hope that we raise kids smarter than ourselves, and I achieved that goal because while I love being a lawyer, I love it because I created a niche that worked for me. But if given a couple years to muse and think, maybe I would have considered other options. I was just so strong in the narrative that I should be a lawyer. Susan Stone [00:04:54]: Whereas I see that my children took more time, worked a little, asked a lot more questions, and took a different path than what they thought. So my daughter, who's getting her MBA in health care consulting, originally wanted to be a doctor. My son, who graduated with a degree in finance, mused for a couple years while he worked, do I want to be a lawyer? Do I want to be a doctor? Do I want to be a candlestick maker? He's going into investment banking. So I recommend you do a little work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:27]: Great points. And definitely, I've seen students that do that. And it's you do have to do your research, you do have to do that self reflection to be able to get there. And speaking of self reflection, both of you chose different law schools in in the paths that you chose. And there are many different law schools that are out there. Now the interesting part is that you both were in Ohio, not too far from each other, and you went to law schools in that same region. But I guess talk to me about that decision making process for yourselves and how you ultimately came to the decision of the law schools that you chose to attend. Kristina Supler [00:06:05]: Susan, why don't you go ahead? Susan Stone [00:06:07]: Well, I was engaged and I knew that we were coming back to Cleveland. Case Western gave me a scholarship, and it was a wonderful education. And that really is not that exciting of a story. I wish I had more. I think that, again, with a little reflection, a little maturity, maybe I would have explored differently. Again, I look at my married daughter graduating from graduate school. She got married and then made the decision to go to a different city for her MBA program from her husband and the time flew, that wasn't in my world view decades ago. Kristina Supler [00:06:48]: And, Chris, my situation is not unlike what Susan described. I was away living my best life in Boston, but I came back for my hometown, honey, my now husband. And and really the choice was simple. It came down to scholarship dollars. You know, I was putting myself through law school. And when you look at through through the lens of, you know, who's giving me the best scholarship award, that it was an easy choice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:12]: And I've said this before, but law school is expensive. I I worked at a law school for ten years. I know how much debt that people can come out. So you do have to look at all those factors as you're making your decisions because in the end you have to pay that back. So it is important to understand that. Now both of you were successful in going through law school. You got through, you got through the bar, you did all of those things. As you transitioned into law school and went through law school, there are definite things that you have to learn along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:47]: Going to law school is very different than any other type of education than you would have had in the past and you probably will ever see in the future. But that in mind, what did you have to do as you transitioned in and through law school that helped set you up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your law school experience? Susan Stone [00:08:08]: I'm gonna praise my law partner, and I'm gonna guess because I didn't go to law school with her. We are different generations that went to different law schools, but Christina Soupler is an outstanding writer. I read her writing every day. So first and foremost, Christina, wouldn't you agree? And the reason I'm not having you answer it because I know you are too far far too humble to tell the truth, but it's writing skills. Kristina Supler [00:08:34]: Certainly. Being a lawyer, writing is is essential. To build off of Susan's point, back it up even a little bit further than that. And this is believe it or not, Chris, it's conversations Susan and I are having with colleagues and peers on on a daily basis. The big a what's the big a? Analysis, analysis, analysis. So I I came into law school thinking, oh, I have such good study skills. I know how to read and memorize and I'm gonna show up for my exam having put in countless hours. I'm gonna be ready to nail it. Kristina Supler [00:09:07]: Oh, wait. That's only part of being a lawyer. The other part and arguably the more essential part of being a talented lawyer is being able to engage in critical analysis. So wrestling with facts, running those facts through different lenses, figuring out how can I twist and turn these facts to obtain the goal that my client is seeking? And that is no matter what your other talents and skills are, a lawyer, successful lawyer, must be Susan Stone [00:09:37]: able to engage in critical analysis. I wanna bootstrap what Christina said because you've kinda touched on a little nerve. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:44]: I was Kristina Supler [00:09:44]: gonna say, did I touch a nerve, Susan? Susan Stone [00:09:46]: Well, you did touch a nerve and it's a nerve we share, so I'm not gonna disagree. The blessing of AI is that everything comes at your fingertips, and legal research is so different today. You literally put in what you want and the computer spits it out. The problem is it short circuits the ability to really think through a problem and be creative. And what I don't see anymore in the talent that's coming in is what I call big picture thinking and out of the box thinking. And that only comes with sitting in a space of discomfort, reading different ideas, maybe those that are not even perfectly matched to your query that you put in a computer, and tapping into creativity. I see a lot of written work where I ask a question, it spits it out, and that they think is the answer, and they can't play mental chess. Being a lawyer is just mental chess, and I don't know how we fix that with the technology that's emerging. Susan Stone [00:10:59]: We're hearing that people can use AI to write their briefs and do their legal research, but what AI can't do is set up a case, tell you your next move. And I'm at a loss, Chris. Breach. Double breach. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:13]: It's definitely hard. Yeah. It's definitely hard. I you know, more and more, we're seeing students that use AI for different parts of their application, and it becomes easier and easier to see when you're getting applications from certain countries and letters look the same or statements look the same. And but I definitely hear you. I've worked I've worked with plenty of lawyers and students that wanted to be lawyers and know how and students that wanted to be lawyers and know how much analysis went into the courses that they went through. And that was before AI in the version that it currently exists. So I can only imagine the challenges that law schools are having to deal with right now. Kristina Supler [00:11:52]: Chris, your comments making me think about our own practice and the work Susan and I do daily with our students. We represent a lot of students in academic integrity cases. And in this day and age, let's face it, most of the quote unquote cheating cases have some tie in to the use or improper use of AI. And it's really remarkable you sharing how from your perspective as as a director, you can sort of spot the essays or the writing. And what we are seeing when we're working with students as well is an ability or perhaps inability to answer questions about the steps along the way to reach the answer. And I will tell you, it is quite glaring at times. Not always, but at times. I mean, Susan, do you recall that one situation we had where there was an issue of AI hallucinations? Susan Stone [00:12:47]: I mean, it's remarkable what what you see. I feel as if AI has dulled instinct. Kristina Supler [00:12:55]: Oh, interesting thought. Yeah. That's something to wrestle with because on the one hand, we wanna I believe we should embrace technology, but of course, responsible use of technology. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:06]: Now you just tired us talking about some of the different people that you work with in the practice that you both have and supporting students as they're going through this process. And I talked about the fact that your practice group handles complex cases involving allegations. This could be sexual assault. It could be academic integrity. It could be there's lots of different aspects to what your practice is working toward. I guess from a high level, there are going to be individuals that when they're looking at graduate school that have had these, we'll call them dings on their record, right? Some things happened in the past and some are going to be more severe than others, but there's always that question that is going to come up on a application that is going to ask them to disclose. And I know that in the minds of many students, some students may say, you know, should I even put this down? Has this been expunged? Has it been long enough that I don't have to say anything about this anymore? What do you say to those students? Well, you Susan Stone [00:14:09]: have to look at the prompt. If the prompt asks for it, you have to give the tell the truth. It's that simple. Kristina Supler [00:14:14]: I was gonna say I wish we had some secret sauce here and we we'd shared trade secrets, Chris, but it really is. Regularly, we say to clients over and over, read the question. Read it very carefully. Read the question two, three, four plus times. Every school can have different there's the common app, but then schools have their own questions, essays, so on and so forth. Read the question very carefully. Susan Stone [00:14:39]: Less is more. You have to be truthful, but you don't have to gut yourself either. Read the question. Answer the question. I call it a sandwich approach. Tell them what happened. Tell them the consequence. Tell them how you grew. Susan Stone [00:14:55]: Be done. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:55]: Now and I will say that there are times where a university may ask you for more information. So from my perspective, from the admission side of things, there are times where if a student has a felony on their record and they were put on probation or they went to jail and they had a parole period, I would probably ask that person to show that they are off parole and to get those court records to be able to show us that that is the case. So you have to watch your email as well and make sure that if you're being asked for something that you do what you can to provide that. Kristina Supler [00:15:40]: That reminds me of a situation we had where there was a debate about what was or wasn't requested by the school, but the issue involved college credits from a different institution and the student didn't ultimately complete the semester. And so it was an issue of is something was that brief period of time at a university subject to disclosure? And, you know, Chris, I'll be curious as to your thoughts. I mean, do you think it's it's in a student's best interest to air on the side of disclosure? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:11]: I tend to say yes, but it also comes down to how they ask the question, just like you were saying, because if they ask for all transcripts from all institutions, now if you never matriculated to an incident, you were accepted, maybe you went but then dropped out in the first week, there's really not gonna be a record of you at that institution. There's not really gonna be a transcript of you at that institution. Now, depends on how the university is asking and whether they're asking for all matriculations or if they're asking for or all enrollments, or all completed terms, you know, there's lots of different words that could mean something just a little bit different. So you can see how this can become a little bit more complex than just saying, is it or isn't it? Susan Stone [00:17:01]: And don't overcomplicate it. Read the question. If they ask where you enrolled, tell them where you were enrolled. I should let people know there is a national clearing house. The minute you do enroll, there is documentation. All schools have access to that clearing house. Just read... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/36891850

Key Shifts Prospective Graduate Students Must Know: Insights from Enrollment Professionals 06/09/2025

Key Shifts Prospective Graduate Students Must Know: Insights from Enrollment Professionals Are you considering grad school in today’s ever-evolving landscape? This week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School” delivers a must-listen conversation directly from the heart of the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals (NAGAP) conference. Host gathers real-time insights from experts, admissions leaders, and graduate support professionals about the most pressing shifts shaping the graduate school experience in 2024—and what they mean for your journey. AI & Authenticity One theme echoed by multiple guests is the rise of artificial intelligence, both in the application process and the workplace. While AI tools can help streamline your application, admissions teams stress the importance of letting your authentic self shine. Be cautious about relying too heavily on tools like ChatGPT—admissions counselors can usually spot AI-generated essays. Use technology as support, but make sure your personality and individual story come through. Holistic Admissions & Diverse Backgrounds The pandemic shifted perspectives around achievement. Rather than just seeking candidates with extensive internships or perfect test scores, many programs are now looking at the whole person. Did you juggle jobs with school? Are you a first-generation student? Your resilience, resourcefulness, and personal growth matter more than ever. Funding, Fit & Flexibility Cost is a growing concern, and our experts urge applicants to ask (and keep asking) about scholarships, assistantships, and other financial support. In addition, with the exponential growth of online and hybrid offerings, it’s crucial to understand various learning formats and select what truly fits your needs. There’s also more pressure than ever for grad programs to demonstrate real modern-world relevance—so do your homework and talk to admissions reps, not just online reviews or forums. Evolving Skills for the Future The episode also explores how the demands of the workforce are shifting. Communication and soft skills—especially in an AI-enhanced environment—are becoming more critical. Programs are adapting to prepare students not just for today’s job market, but for tomorrow’s unpredictable opportunities. Why You Should Listen If you’re serious about graduate school, don’t miss this episode. You’ll walk away with honest, actionable advice and a clearer sense of what it takes to stand out—and thrive—in today’s graduate landscape. Ready to dive deeper? Listen now for practical tips and insider perspectives that could make all the difference in your grad school quest! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in grad school. This week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn from other enrollment management professionals. I recently attended the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals or NAGAP. And at that conference, I spoke to a number of enrollment management professionals and individuals working within industry that are working with higher education about a number of questions to help you in the journey that you are on toward graduate school. This week's question is what's a shift you're seeing that today's prospective students should be aware of as they consider applying to graduate school. I hope that you enjoy the answers to this question and that it will help you on the journey that you are on. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:03]: Hi. This is Stacy Goldstein with UC San Diego at Rady School of Management with the master professional accountancy program. I work in our graduate department in admissions, thing is being your cheerleader for my students. Invest in yourself. It is competitive with jobs and AI is on the rise, so it can be challenging when applying for jobs or graduate school. When you're writing an admissions essay or doing your resume, please try not to rely on chat GBT that much. I know it's tempting, but I hate to break it to you, we can tell. We can definitely tell assert writing style or the dashes, but we wanna know you. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:38]: So really try to you can utilize the AI, that's fine, But put in a sense of who you are even through a piece of paper. We wanna get to know you. Be confident. Let that personality shine through and best of luck. Donna Wang Su [00:01:54]: My name is Donna Wang Su. I am the associate director for graduate admissions and financial aid at Northwestern University, Medill School of Journalism Media Integrated Marketing Communications. I think a shift that I am seeing as students are applying to grad school today, I think is that vulnerability. I think that COVID really changed things a bit in the sense of people are leaning a bit into not following. Here's that checklist. I'm gonna check everything off. And they're looking at other opportunities, and I think trying to find the lessons there, and that's something that I truly value. I think us in the admissions offices are also looking at things a little differently. Donna Wang Su [00:02:33]: We talk about there's that book Privileged Poor where we will consider, oh, this person doesn't have a lot of internships. But as I look at their resume, maybe they're a first generation college student and they don't have that financial luxury to take an unpaid internship in this field or industry. But I've seen that they've worked two, three different jobs while also going to school full time. What lessons have they picked up? What professional maturity have they picked up from this kind of time management? And so I think there's become more of a focus on that holistic admissions and holistic graduate student approach as well. Santavaya Jordan [00:03:10]: My name is Santavaya Jordan. I am the engineering graduate recruiter at Vanderbilt University, and I recruit only for our graduate programs in engineering. The biggest thing I see with students in particular is looking at what funding is available and if funding is even gonna be offered due to the political climate. And I can tell you that many of the schools they're fighting to find funding for students to encourage you to still be in these spaces. We definitely want you to be at our institutions to be able to thrive and not focus on how you're gonna pay for a school. So I know that has been a big concern that's happening. Also, another thing is even with testing, a lot of the students are worried about GRE scores or even, like, some that it may have GMAT scores, but a lot of schools are getting rid of that and a lot of them are taking holistic approach to look at other applicants, getting ready for testing because there is a lot of bias within looking at applicants. So I would definitely say although you may be studying for a GRE or studying for a GMAT, don't rule out all the other background things that you may have done with whether it's research or even maybe even had a paper published. Santavaya Jordan [00:04:07]: Those different type of things can really set you apart when applying for graduate school. So don't focus on your negatives that you may not have. Look at all the positive things and look at other ways to engage in your institution. If you don't have research experience, look at your institution and talk with different faculty and see if you can get in their lab. Pick up lab skills and learn new things that really help you advance your application. Paul Brandano [00:04:31]: I'm Paul Brandano. I'm the executive director of the Master of Science in Business Analytics at UCLA Anderson. So we're seeing a few shifts when we think about who our cohorts are. I would say first and foremost, it's a generational shift. When we think about Gen Z who's now a growing part of our population, I think the advantages they bring is that they care a lot about authenticity. They care a lot about making a difference in the world, being socially conscious. And I think these are all things that are going to be valuable in their careers. Of course, the political environment is always changing, so they've gotta be aware of that. Paul Brandano [00:04:59]: But I think that at the end of the day, they tend to have their head in the right place place when it comes to picking up the job of basically taking over the world eventually. I would also say that they tend to be because of the pandemic and because of the challenges they faced, either more resilient or less resilient. And I think that, you know, depending on their personal experience through that, we see it as either a strength or a gap. I think as long as the students are aware of that, that it's probably had an effect and are self aware enough to acknowledge it, it becomes an opportunity rather than a limitation. Emily Dayton [00:05:31]: Hi. This is Emily Dayton. I am the senior director of a specialized master's admissions and recruitment at the Rady School of Management at the University of California, San Diego. What I'm seeing is that with the growth of generative AI tools and AI assisted work environments, that what is becoming even more important is a focus on strong communication skills. I work with very quantitative and technical programs, and the shift that we're starting to do is that we're preparing our current graduate students for a work environment. We'll be more of a conductor of an AI tool that's doing most of the quantitative and technical lift. And so really what sets students apart and job candidates apart are their communication soft skills. Tony Fraga [00:06:19]: Hey. It's Tony Fraga, CEO at Direct Development. We're a long time enrollment marketing company. So many students are applying to a lot more schools today than ever before. It's not just applying to a couple of programs. We're seeing huge amounts of volume increase, almost like undergrad levels, at the grad level. That's just becoming normal. So now grad schools, you have to understand, are dealing with a large influx of applicants, but not necessarily great on yield on return. Tony Fraga [00:06:49]: And I think you need to be aware that you may need to be open to some more programs than you think. You also might not get accepted to some of the ones you want to get into. Others are gonna be so hungry, they want to make it work for you. And I'd find a blend of that and find, hey, what's your price point? And are you applying to enough different grad schools? Have you opened and considered other grad programs that you might not have thought? Don't just go for the an MBA, the main ones. Be open to new programs that are more modern, frankly. Are you getting an analog grad degree in a digital age? We need more modern grad programs, and a lot of them are there, but you gotta find them. And they might not be named what you think the grad degree is. So I'm seeing a lot of grad students apply to more because they're educating themselves and finding there's these other kinds of programs out there. Adrian Peralta [00:07:37]: Hi, everybody. My name is Adrian Peralta. I'm part of the graduate admissions team at Kean University in Union, New Jersey. I myself am a graduate international special populations admissions counselor. Look at online, hybrid, and in person. And if you don't understand the difference between the three, definitely ask questions. And sometimes, programs might say they're online, but, really, they might be hybrid. Some might say they're hybrid really in person. Adrian Peralta [00:08:02]: So definitely ask those questions, and please always make those informed decisions and just lead with knowledge. That's the best way to choose everything. Jeremiah Nelson [00:08:15]: Jeremiah Nelson. I'm a faculty member at the Kettner School of Business at Catawba College and the MBA director. I think a lot of people are shortcutting their research process while they're evaluating schools. A lot of use of AI to accelerate their application process and maybe not going through the same due diligence that I've seen in the past. And I think that in the long run, you're much better if you invest fully in understanding the schools that you're applying to and being a little bit more selective than doing kind of a a ray shot, kind of application strategy. Naronda Wright [00:08:54]: Hello. I'm Naronda Wright. I serve as the associate associate dean of graduate student services at Jordan Southern University and also a service at NAGAP president. Enrollment is important on our campuses right now, so making sure that you are a good fit for that program that you are applying for and being admitted to so you can progress and graduate and make sure that you are contributing to growth and advancement and things like that on our campuses. So just making sure that what you're doing is what you wanna do and it's a good fit. Irene Aiken [00:09:23]: I'm Irene Aiken. I'm the Dean of the grad school at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke. A shift student should be aware of is the jobs that are gonna be in the future. And in particular, companies want students who have skills of today's needs, which include AI and the use of AI and how AI is gonna change their job. Irene Aiken [00:09:48]: Grad schools are coming back around to the idea of test scores. We saw that with undergrad recently where test scores are coming back. They was they're optional for a while, and now a lot of schools are moving back in that direction. I think faculty get very concerned about the performance of students, and particularly, it's kinda cliche, but post pandemic, grad schools are seeing a decline in students' ability to do graduate level work. And I think that has a lot to do with their student experience over the years, but faculty are kind of going back to the tried and true method of well, they should take this, they should take that. So be aware of that and be aware of changes in how faculty assess the academic readiness of graduate students when they enter programs. Marcus Hanscon [00:10:35]: Hi. My name is Marcus Hanscon. I'm the director of enrollment marketing at Direct Development and also spent about seventeen years working in college admissions in the graduate schools. Students do so much on their own without talking to anybody. They spend so much time online. They rely on Reddit. They rely on other technology and AI, and there's certainly value to that. And you wanna get some external opinions and thoughts and see what kind of evaluators are saying about your programs. Marcus Hanscon [00:10:58]: But nothing beats actually talking to the people and getting in there beyond just doing your own web research. And a lot of students, they don't talk to anybody until after they apply. And they miss out on that opportunity to not only learn about a good program, but also learn what a program is not right for them. So why waste your time applying to a program that ultimately isn't gonna be the right fit? And you can usually wean that out by talking to an admissions rep or faculty or students very early in your process before you ever apply. Sabrina Brown [00:11:26]: I'm Sabrina Brown. I work at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and I am the director of graduate recruitment. The many roles that graduate education does play, I see that higher education is not as trusted by the intent of higher education is both different for everyone and what people think the outcome should be. And it's not just return on investment or getting another job, a higher paying job, or sort of economically focused. Higher education serves a lot of purposes. And so we see this shift in terms of what is coming out of or going into higher education and what that value means to the public, but I think that it's important for prospective students to really be grounded in what does this endeavor do for you and how does that shift your life and your ability to live the best life that you're creating for yourself. Addie Caudle [00:12:30]: My name is Addie Caudle. I'm the communications manager from Tarleton State University. Students really being more cautious about the programs they're looking at. They're wanting to make sure that these programs relate to where they wanna be in life, whether it's their goals, whether it's they wanna be in academia or industry. All of that is going to depend significantly on the type of program that they're going for. Melissa Yeung [00:12:53]: I'm Dr. Melissa Young, director of student support and belonging at the School of Physical and Occupational Therapy at Bowling Green State University. I think the cost of education, you know, cost is always on the forefront of of students' mind, and the availability of support is, I think, becoming more important for students. So those are the two things that I think it's coming up to the forefront compared to the trends that we're seeing maybe five or ten years ago. James Monahan [00:13:25]: I'm James Monahan. I'm the director of graduate and international admissions at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. The biggest shift that is happening right now in higher education in general is going to online programs and you need to figure out what's right for you, whether you want a fully online program or maybe you need a hybrid type program. I think that's really important and something that everyone should keep in mind when they choose their graduate studies. Jamie Crampton [00:13:54]: Hello. I am Jamie Crampton. I work for Gecko Engage, a software company in higher education headquartered out of Edinburgh. I also live in Edinburgh, Scotland. So I'm gonna answer these questions from the lens of The UK education sector, but hopefully, it's also applicable to The US as well. AI. Absolutely. I mean, AI is sadly, but also positively becoming more and more widely used across the world. Jamie Crampton [00:14:18]: And I feel like not just in education during your studies, but also post enrollment when you actually get a job and a career, more and more jobs are going to look for people with AI experience. And I think that's a key thing is just understand AI, use AI, and then learn how to apply that to your education, but also professionally afterwards as well. Ben Webb [00:14:44]: Hello. My name is Ben Webb. I'm the executive director of The Americas for QS, which is a service that does international domestic recruiting, rankings, international performance, located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Used to be on the admission side at multiple schools across the country. There's a lot of programs that are out there in world. So it's figuring out a lot of the MSBA programs or AI or computer science. What do you wanna do? Do you wanna be an AI manager, or are you looking to be a tactical person that's actually using the data? So I think we're we're starting to see a shift of overload of programs. There's a lot coming out with the same names. So how do we kinda start to differentiate which one is gonna be the best fit? So understanding and finding you want the degree, but what within that degree is what you're really looking to get in a world where many universities of various sizes are offering the same thing. Matt Bohlen [00:15:31]: Hey, everybody. My name is Matt Bohlen, and I'm senior director of client success with Carnegie. Been here about four years now. Before that, I worked about twenty years in ed, a couple different institutions in the state of Michigan. Loved working in higher ed, but also I love helping higher ed as a consultant now too. I think the shifts of how to pay for college is something that's important. Historically, you know, we relied a lot on internships or assistantships. Nowadays, I think it's okay to ask what type of funding is available because there's so much competition in the market. The graduate programs have to be realistic that there are scholarships that need to be... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/36635695

What Most Grad Students Overlook: Essential Support Services and Strategies 06/02/2025

What Most Grad Students Overlook: Essential Support Services and Strategies Navigating graduate school is a journey filled with both promise and challenge. While many students focus on selecting the right program or acing their classes, there’s a world of support—often overlooked—that can make all the difference. In the latest episode of Victor’s in Grad School, brings together enrollment professionals, faculty, and industry experts from universities across the country to answer a vital question: What’s an underrated support service or strategy that can make a big difference for student success? A powerful theme that emerges is the value of community and connection. From networking with recruiters and professionals, to seeking out mentors and joining student organizations, building intentional relationships is a recurring piece of advice. of UC San Diego urges students to “network, network, network”—not just for job opportunities, but to foster professional connections that can open unexpected doors. Tapping into campus resources is another underappreciated strategy. Whether it’s visiting the writing center as recommended by of UNC Pembroke, or taking advantage of the library’s knowledgeable staff and resources, graduate students are reminded that these supports go far beyond undergraduate basics. Several guests, like Matt Bohlen, highlight that services often assumed to be for undergrads—such as tutoring and consulting—are invaluable at the graduate level. Career and professional development also take center stage. According to , a proactive approach to career services—like participating in mock interviews—can directly impact post-graduate outcomes. Meanwhile, from UCLA underscores the importance of identifying and addressing skill gaps before and during your program, whether by brushing up on technical skills or improving communication through creative outlets. Finally, there’s a strong message about attending to mental health and personal well-being. Multiple voices stress the significance of using counseling services and seeking support from faculty, mentors, and peers. “Don’t suffer in silence,” advises Emily Dayton, reminding students they’re not alone on this journey. The episode is rich with practical advice, personal stories, and a refreshing honesty about the realities of graduate education. If you’re considering graduate school or already on your journey, this conversation is an essential listen to ensure you’re not missing out on the resources that can propel you to success. Tune in, take notes, and empower your grad school experience! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in grad school. This week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn from other enrollment management professionals. I recently attended the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals or NAGAP. And at that conference, I spoke to a number of enrollment management professionals and individuals working within industry that are working with higher education about a number of questions to help you in the journey that you are on toward graduate school. This week's question is what's a underrated support service or strategy that can make a big difference for student success. I hope that you enjoy the answers to this question and that it will help you on the journey that you are on. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:04]: Hi. This is Stacy Goldstein with UC San Diego at Rady School of Management with the master professional accountancy program. I work in our graduate department in admissions. And my big thing is being your cheerleader for my students. Network. Network. Network. Network. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:18]: Write down every recruiter's name. So a lot of support strategy or what can you do to be successful. Make the connections you have count. So write down, even if it's an online virtual event, who you spoke with is that recruiter. So next time when you meet them, especially in person, you can make that connection and let them know that you were present. That helps. Donna Wang Su [00:01:40]: My name is Donna Wang Su. I am the associate director for graduate admissions and financial aid at Northwestern University, Medill School of Journalism Media Integrated Marketing Communications. I'm definitely biased, but I do think that an underrated service is gonna be your financial aid office. And I say that because I do a lot of one on one financial advising with my students, which quickly turns into strategic planning slash career services. Because we'll start talking about budgeting and we'll start talking about, well, I wanna be able to save up to do this. I wanna go explore this. And next you know, it leads down a different path. And I love connecting with students years later who tell me that they still remember tips or use strategies that we've used from our coaching sessions. Santavaya Jordan [00:02:24]: My name is Santavaya Jordan. I am the engineering graduate recruiter at Vanderbilt University, and I recruit only for our graduate programs in engineering. Definitely, back again, tack into the mental health. Making sure your mental health is intact as much as possible. Not everyone understands and believes how much they need resources to talk to someone whether it's a counselor or even a mentor that you could relate to. Someone that's been in your position before or someone that can just have be an outlet or a resource that doesn't have anything to say or give their own opinion on what you're going through, but a listening ear to ear to help you get through difficult situations, whether it is personally that can affect you academically or something that's academically that can affect you personally. Paul Brandano [00:03:05]: I'm Paul Brandano. I'm the executive director of the master of Science in Business Analytics at UCLA Anderson. But with a quantitative master's, I think the the probably more underrated support services are the things that are initially gaps on the technical side. So I I think, for example, about a person who was fantastic in our first cohort, she was, by training, an economist. She was an undergraduate economist and she came into our program and said, I just don't have the Python. I have never programmed in R. I don't really know my SQL. And she said, but I promise you by the time I get into the program, I will have taken a few courses and I plan on spending my Friday nights in the library. Paul Brandano [00:03:39]: And everybody can say that, but she absolutely did it. And I think that the difference it made for her was that she didn't just get hired by the the consulting firm. She got hired by BCG Gamma. You know, she could really walk the walk and talk the talk. So I think I think a lot of folks might underestimate the real leap they can make by just adding a little bit more pre prep before the master's degree. And I see that quite a lot. The other one is, you know, we do a lot with on the other end of the spectrum, if it's non quant, it's communications. And so if you if you come in knowing where your biggest gap is and then look for creative ways of filling them, not all programs are gonna do all of it. Paul Brandano [00:04:11]: And so we add improv as an example. But that improv is available in most major cities. Right? And I always recommend it. It's a great way to to sort of launch your way forward quickly in a short window of time while you're still getting your master's degree. The best time of your life when you're probably your most charismatic. And so I would recommend those kinds of approaches too. Like, look for the creative things that make you shine uniquely, you know, that give you that x factor, that ability to talk about something a little different than the average candidate might hear. Emily Dayton [00:04:41]: Hi. This is Emily Dayton. I am the senior director of the specialized master's admissions and recruitment at the Rady School of Management at the University of California, San Diego. This is something that our faculty say a lot, but we really encourage our students to do not suffer in silence. Most staff and faculty are there to help, and they want students to be successful. So one thing that we do at the Rady School is that our faculty will proactively share the support system that is in place at the start of each quarter, at the start of each class so that our students are aware of the resources that are there before they run into an issue. Tony Fraga [00:05:21]: Hey. It's Tony Fraga, CEO at Direct Development. We're a long time enrollment marketing company. For sure, career services. And here is an underrated thing. And I'll just say, I know there are many career services departments that aren't great. They're just kinda meh, and you don't learn a lot. It's maybe captain obvious. Tony Fraga [00:05:40]: Like, make sure you have a LinkedIn profile, and here's three resume templates you can use. Like, you can get that off of ChatGPT and Internet. You don't need a career services department for that, to be honest. A great career services department is will meet with you and help you do things like a mock actual interview before you have an actual interview with an employer. I'd be looking at that. I think that's so underrated. If you cannot just train how to get a degree and learn something, if you can learn how to then interview with a real employer, it can make or break whether or not you get that job. And let me tell you, the next generation coming out, people in their twenties and thirties, they're struggling to find right fit jobs because you're not interviewing well. Tony Fraga [00:06:16]: Tap into your university's career service department. They know how to do it. They see lots of you go through not well, so they have a vested interest in you doing it better. Adrian Peralta [00:06:29]: Hi, everybody. My name is Adrian Peralta. I'm part of the graduate admissions team at Kean University in Union, New Jersey. I, myself, am a graduate international and special populations admissions counselor. Definitely understand student accounting and financial aid. Those are your two biggest portions that will help you onboard to the university you want to in the right way and help you understand what opportunities are out there to fund your degree and finance it, you know, also. But also look at graduate assistantships. That also is a really big thing that we see these days. Jeremiah Nelson [00:07:06]: Jeremiah Nelson. I'm a faculty member at the Kettner School of Business at Catawba College and the MBA director. The most underrated support service is probably taking advantage of networking and career and professional development while you're a graduate student. A lot of people think about their academics while they're in school and think that that comes next, But it doesn't matter how smart you are or how much you know if nobody knows who you are. So take the time to once a week, twice a week, reach out to people, make some connections, and try and build some bridges along the way. Dr. Noranda Wright [00:07:43]: Hello. I'm Noranda Wright. I serve as the associate dean of graduate student services at Georgia Southern University and also serve as the Nagat president. I think probably one of the most underrated one is advisement because that's where you're gonna get your information from. So knowing who to talk to if you need help with registering for classes, if you need to change your major, or if you need to just real realize what you need to do in order to advance yourself academically, to be retained as a student, and eventually graduate. So know who your advisors are, know who your program directors are so they can offer that support for you is, I think, is probably one of the most underrated things on our campuses. Irene Aiken [00:08:22]: I'm Irene Aiken. I'm the dean of the grad school at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke. The underrated support service on campus is often the writing center, but the career center, there are just so many offerings at every campus. I don't think students take advantage of enough. Irene Aiken [00:08:42]: Retention actually makes a big difference. Regular check ins with students sometimes seem like something it's out of reach for a school. I would say with AI, it makes it even easier where you could have an AI agent calling all of your students two or three times a semester just to check on them, see how things are doing, maybe, you know, get them resources, get them help. Marcus Hanscon [00:09:05]: Hi. My name is Marcus Hanscon. I'm the director of enrollment marketing at Direct Development and also spent about seventeen years working in college admissions in the graduate schools. Unfortunately, admissions officers are seen as salespeople, and I think that's an unfortunate thing for students cause they assume that whenever they're talking to an admissions person, they're only gonna get one side of the story. And I think the vast majority of the people that I've worked with over seventeen years in graduate enrollment is that they're genuinely out to help the student find the right thing for them. And even if that means telling them to go to another school. So talk to your admissions reps, Call them on the phone. Text with them. Marcus Hanscon [00:09:36]: Email with them. Go and visit them in their offices. Have a candid conversation, and don't be afraid to ask good questions, candid questions, things that you might be worried. Can I ask that or not? Ask the questions. There's no bad question other than the ones that you don't ask. Sabrina Brown [00:09:53]: I'm Sabrina Brown. I work at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and I am the director of graduate recruitment. Finding ways to make connection and build community to the level that feels like support for you, but oftentimes students think about the efficient way to go through a program. How many credits can I take? Is it online? Is it gonna fit with my commuter schedule? And those are all important things, but going to a new level educationally can feel lonely or it can stretch you in ways that can be surprising and finding those that are kind of alongside side it or have done it before can really be a game changer. But when you're sort of in a space of learning, it can feel vulnerable and scary and sometimes people kind of turn into themselves to feel like they need to be their own support. But I have found that the students that truly are able to raise their hand and say, either I need help or I just need to feel seen in this process, they go farther and feel better about the experience that they have. Addie Caudle [00:10:58]: My name is Addie Caudle. I'm the communications manager from Tarleton State University. It's really the advising and the mentoring. Different institutions kind of address these in different ways. I know our students that we'll see, you know, they we don't have any professional advisors, but we are working on that. That's something I'm actually hiring for right now. And we've got faculty mentors that really work with the departments. But a lot of times, they're not able to get a hold of them due to nine month contracts and really we run into that issue during the summer. Addie Caudle [00:11:26]: Faculty are also so involved in teaching and research of their own projects that sometimes the advising and taking the time to help direct and guide our students where they need for help can become difficult. Melissa Yeung [00:11:42]: I'm Dr. Melissa Young, director of student support and belonging at the School of Physical and Occupational Therapy at Bowling Green State University. The use of the counseling center and with all the stresses that we all face on a daily basis, whether it's balancing your obligations or just finding an outlet that or someone you can talk to, the counseling center can make a lot of difference. It's also the place where if you you were struggling with something else, they could easily point you to other resources on campus. And being in a good mental space generally is great. It's a good start for academic success. James Monahan [00:12:27]: I'm James Monahan. I'm the director of graduate and international admissions at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. I don't know if it's underrated, but I would say that the library is incredibly useful to students and I don't know that they realize it and they don't perhaps recognize that the people that work in the libraries are really there to help them whether it be with research or solving a problem and I think that, you really should go out and check out what they've got available to you. Jamie Crampton [00:12:59]: Hello. I am Jamie Crampton. I work for Gecko Engage, a software company in higher education headquartered out of Edinburgh. I also live in Edinburgh, Scotland. So I'm gonna answer these questions from the lens of The UK education sector, but hopefully, it's also applicable to The US as well. At least from The UK side and why I joined Gecko, we're a student engagement platform that helps kind of provide students with the right tools to understand an institution, whether that be prospective or current students, is utilizing admissions staff and also admissions student workers. For me, when I joined university, I became a student worker because my experience prior to enrolling was I was scared. I didn't know who to talk to. Jamie Crampton [00:13:41]: I didn't know if a question was a stupid question. Felt more comfortable speaking with a student worker or an admissions representative because they were so much more friendly and a little bit more approachable. So for anybody listening to this, if you're a prospective or current student, I would say don't be afraid to reach out to the people whose job it is to answer your questions because from a pre enrollment perspective, that really enhanced my journey in which university I decided to go with. But then also when I began my studies, I actually felt like dropping out of university in the first year because I didn't enjoy some of the courses I was enrolled in as part of my degree. I had to do four individual subjects each semester and some of them I was like, I'm doing a marketing degree. Why am I doing finance? Why am I doing accounting? And I was told that after speaking with my representative, my mentor, that this was just the first year and it gets a lot more segmented in terms of my career path and what I wanted to do later on. And so she encouraged me to stick at it, keep going with it, and it will get better. And I'm really glad I listened to her because I almost dropped out. Jamie Crampton [00:14:46]: And instead of dropping out, I end up graduating in the top possible degree class I could have graduated with. So, it was all thanks to her because I was going to drop out if not. So long winded response, but utilize the staff that are there to help you both preenrollment and postenrollment. Ben Webb [00:15:05]: Hello. My name is Ben Webb. I'm the executive director of The Americas for QS, which is a service that does international domestic recruiting, rankings, international performance, located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Used to be on the mission side at multiple schools across the country. For me, one of my biggest things that I recommend to people when they're coming into a graduate school, they're gonna go into professional world is mentoring services and and joining things that kinda get you out of comfort zone. So things like Toastmasters, joining your young professional society, figuring out how to speak and communicate effectively, be able to interact with new people, learn new things, like those soft skills and be able to really... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/36635255

Finding the Best Grad School Fit: Academic, Personal, and Professional Advice 05/26/2025

Finding the Best Grad School Fit: Academic, Personal, and Professional Advice Choosing the right graduate program is a big decision that can shape your academic, professional, and personal future. In this episode of Victors in Grad School, brings together a diverse panel of enrollment management professionals and industry experts from across the country to answer a critical question: What’s one piece of advice you would give students to help them better evaluate whether a program is the right fit academically, personally, or professionally? The insights shared in this episode are a goldmine for anyone considering graduate school or helping others navigate the process. One major theme throughout the episode is the importance of self-reflection and self-honesty. Many experts, including (UNC Charlotte) and (Direct Development), urge students to look beyond academic rankings or prestige. Instead, they recommend starting with your "why"—what are your true motivations and career goals? Take the time to evaluate your learning style, your needs for support and community, and how a program aligns with your personal aspirations and circumstances. Research and connection are another recurring theme. Repeatedly, the guests encourage prospective students to look beyond brochures and websites. Instead, make meaningful connections: talk to faculty, current students, and especially alumni in roles or industries you aspire to. (UC San Diego) and (Direct Development) stress the value of these conversations in revealing the actual culture of a program, typical career outcomes, and the lived experiences of people just like you. The academic environment matters too, but it’s not the whole story. Paul Brandano (UCLA Anderson) and (SIU Edwardsville) highlight the importance of evaluating curriculum, faculty engagement, and the level of rigor honestly—you want to be challenged, but also supported. Location and atmosphere are also crucial elements. As (QS) and (Vanderbilt University) point out, a program’s fit is not just about classes and credentials but also about the city or campus setting and the mental health resources available. Can you picture yourself thriving in this new environment? Finally, don’t forget to be proactive! Reach out for more information, as (Carnegie) explains—it’s worth the extra effort to piece together what life as a student there truly looks like. If you’re gearing up for grad school or supporting someone on that journey, this episode is packed with candid, actionable advice. Listen in for a wide range of perspectives and start charting your own path to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in grad school. This week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn from other enrollment management professionals. I recently attended the National Association of Graduate Admission Professionals or NAGAP. And at that conference, I spoke to a number of enrollment management professionals and individuals working within industry that are working with higher education about a number of questions to help you in the journey that you are on toward graduate school. This week's question was, what's one piece of advice you would give to students to help them better evaluate whether a program is the right fit academically, personally, or professionally. I hope that you enjoy the answers to this question and that it will help you on the journey that you are on. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:07]: Hi. This is Stacy Goldstein with UC San Diego at Rady School of Management with the master professional accountancy program. I work in our graduate department in admissions, and my big thing is being your cheerleader for my students. One piece of advice that I like to give is utilize the resources you have now and work backwards. What does that mean? If you're in school right now, you're getting career resources, have someone look at your resume. So utilize those connections, get to know your faculty. Sometimes they're board members or they sit or they still are a partner. Make those connections, not just LinkedIn, but get to know them. Stacy Goldstein [00:01:42]: And what I mean by work backwards, then follow them on LinkedIn. What job do you wanna do? Look at their profile, see what they did for their graduate studies, see what types of jobs they got, and then that will gauge of which direction and which graduate school you choose. Go for the dream job. Donna Wang Su [00:02:01]: My name is Donna Wang Su. I am the associate director for graduate admissions and financial aid at Jamie Crampton [00:02:05]: Northwestern University, Medill School of Donna Wang Su [00:02:05]: Journalism, Media, Integrated Marketing Communications. I'm Medill School of Journalism Media Integrated Marketing Communications. I'm a huge fan of strategic planning. So I think to do research, look at careers, jobs that you say to yourself, I could see myself doing that. And doing those kind of informational interviews with people and seeing, you know, what paths have taken them in that direction, whether it was the right mentorship, if it was the right degree, what was it part of the degree? Was it the network? Was it the curriculum? And kind of letting that guide their path there. Santavaya Jordan [00:02:40]: My name is Santavaya Jordan. I am the engineering graduate recruiter at Vanderbilt University, and I recruit only for our graduate programs in engineering. One great thing I would say is looking at not just the school's ratings, but where the school is located and if you can be in that environment mentally. It's very important for your mental health when you're in a new environment, not only dealing with new people and experiences, but actually the other outlets within that area within the city for you to go to, resources that are on campus, resources that are off campus for your mental health. And that's extremely important, especially if you have other family factors or other life situations that may contribute to or may affect how you matriculate throughout your program. Paul Brandano [00:03:23]: I'm Paul Brandano. I'm the executive director of the Master of Science in Business Analytics at UCLA Anderson. Personally, I'm thinking all the time about, first, who they are. So I've I've gotta get to know them quite well before I even begin to answer the question. It's pretty clear from our perspective that there's a certain baseline in a program like ours, which is highly quantitative. And so when we're looking for our fit, we're looking for someone who can swim, not sink. And that's academically, of course, in all the quantitative courses that they might take on with us, and they're quite diverse. So that could be a, you know, a math major, it could be an accounting major, it could be a finance major, undergrad, it could be a computer scientist or an engineer. Paul Brandano [00:04:00]: But they've gotta have some common ability to manage the higher level math. Ideally, they will have taken multirabial calculus and linear algebra. And so if they do have those things, that starts the conversation. Because after that, you're really looking for how much of a fit are they going to be in the next phase of their life, which is their career. And they've just got a short window with us. I think the advantage of an MBA is that you get to be there a while. You get to evaluate for yourself what's the right path, where am I going, and perhaps choose one of those areas I was mentioning, finance, operations, etcetera. Here, we just know that they're going to be specialists and ideally have as broad a breadth of skill sets across those functional areas as possible so that they can, in their career, jump between marketing and finance, etcetera, or between industries. Paul Brandano [00:04:43]: And so what I'm looking for and and and I'm evaluating them, they're evaluating us is, you know, how much of that do they have naturally? And when, you know, just like when you go to a conference or listening to a podcast, you're you're kind of moved more by a person who has that natural charisma, that x factor. And so we're definitely looking for that. Right? You know, is it if you've got those things that sort of stand out to everyone as they've got some magic in them, they're on my admit list. And I think in the middle, it's it's someone who can who has a few gaps to fill. And I think those are the ones, of course, who are gonna get the most from a program like ours. So it's really professional, personal, academic. They all kind of go together. I am looking for a scholar more than I'm looking for someone who just wants to get the job. Paul Brandano [00:05:23]: I think that's really important because it says they're gonna be in it not from not just from me, but for the next phase. Emily Dayton [00:05:31]: Hi. This is Emily Dayton. I am the senior director of the specialized master's admissions and recruitment at the Ravey School of Management at the University of California, San Diego. So my recommendation is to talk to alumni of the program. And if you can, alumni that have similar preprogram traits that are important to you. So maybe an undergrad major or institution, maybe work experience in the same industry or family or support network system. And after talking with them, think about if their experiences resonate with your own motivations for graduate school. Tony Fraga [00:06:11]: Hey. It's Tony Fraga, CEO at Direct Development. We're a long time enrollment marketing company. I think of fit first aligning with what it is the outcome you have in your mind of what that success looks like for you. Because when we consider a program, we're actually have an idea. And I would say to you, what Tony Fraga [00:06:30]: is it you have in your mind? I don't Tony Fraga [00:06:30]: care how idealistic it is. You have a vision in your mind of you after you get a pro a degree and what you're doing. And I actually would start professionally first. I'm not saying academically and personally don't matter as much, but I actually would start there because I think that aligns with your vision for you went on this path because of a why. What's your why behind what you'd be looking at here? And you might have not have it all figured out, but you do have this idea in your head of, but I'd like to, I want to, I have a desire to, and you gotta stay rooted in that. I think if it's professionally aligned with your professional goals first, check that box. The next one I would go to is personally, over academically. Because personally, who are you and how do you learn? Do you really know yourself? Because I think a lot of us sometimes aren't honest with how we learn and what mode and kind of environment we're looking for. Tony Fraga [00:07:20]: You may need to be around people more. An online program might not be good for you even though it sounds sexy. And so I think you need to be honest with yourself of honestly, what are your work habits? What are your learning habits? And if you're not honest with that, personally, how you operate, you're gonna sign up for a really cool program that could hit your professional goals, but that you stink at because it's not the right mode for you personally. And then academically, I think you need to be honest with a level of rigor, and looking at the professors and how it's taught, and what are the academics like at that institution. Is this gonna be a like high pace cranky through, but you gotta really be on it? You want a lot of hand holding? I think you need to look at the entire academic experience. Look at the professors, listen to them, listen to their podcasts, read their content. Do you like it? Can you learn from that? That's what I do next. Adrian Peralta [00:08:10]: Hi, everybody. My name is Adrian Peralta. I'm part of the graduate admissions team at Kean University in Union, New Jersey. I, myself, am a graduate international special populations admissions counselor. Please evaluate your career path. That always is the first step. And always understand understand who your support systems are. That also helps you to kinda make that final informed decision. Adrian Peralta [00:08:32]: Always ask questions and make yourself as available as you can be to people who may not be in your profession, but can help you, you know, understand all the different nuances of choosing the right grad program, but as well as selecting your mentors. Jeremiah Nelson [00:08:50]: Jeremiah Nelson. I'm a faculty member at the Kettner School of Business at Catawba College and the MBA director. Visit. Don't rely on just the website. Talk to people and get to know the culture of the campus and the culture of the student body and the faculty. That helps a lot to make sure that it's a place that you can thrive. Ask a lot of questions. Don't be shy because people are really eager to tell you about their experiences. Jeremiah Nelson [00:09:16]: So go out of your way to make some personal connections. I would also say check-in and find out about outcomes. Ask questions about where people are going, what kinds of, careers they're pursuing, and make sure that that's a good match for you. Because if there's a runway of alumni that are doing the thing that you want to do, there's a much greater likelihood that you're gonna land in a place that's gonna make you happy in the long run. Naronda Wright [00:09:41]: Hello. I'm Naronda Wright. I service the associate dean of graduate student services at Jordan Southern University and also service the Nagat president. One, first, do your research on the program. Know what the admissions requirements are. What are the outcomes? What are the SLOs for a program to find out if it's a good fit for you. We think we want something, then we get into it, and we start taking classes and meeting with faculty and staff, and it's not what we want. So I think the biggest thing upfront for me is the biggest piece of advice is to do your research prior to even applying to a graduate program so you know what you're looking for, and you have a better outlook on your graduate program. Irene Aiken [00:10:16]: I'm Irene Akin. I'm the Dean of the grad school at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke. First of all, they need to shadow someone who is in the field and speak with a lot of people who are in that field and with those credentials to see if that's the job that they want to do in the future. Ray Lutsky [00:10:38]: Hey there. This is doctor Ray Lutzky, vice president for strategic partnerships at Element four fifty one, the AI driven student engagement platform. And one piece of advice I would give students to help them better evaluate whether a program is right fit academically, personally, professionally, is to get a vibe for how the faculty deal with the students. If there are ways to get great education but have a poor experience, And then there are opportunities to find mentorship and lifelong connections and career advice, and the faculty play a big role in that. I think that's one of the key advantages of the on campus experience today still over many online modalities, but I think that's important. And it's also interesting to think. Matt Bohlen [00:11:25]: Alright. My name Marcus Hanscon [00:11:26]: is Marcus Hanscomb. I'm the director of enrollment marketing at Direct Development and also spent about seventeen years working in college admissions in the graduate schools, talk to current students and faculty. It's a little extra effort, but it's worth it and actually getting some good value to hear about what kind of research is being undertaken, what kinds of outcomes they could expect for their programs. And it's really critical that you find a program that you're investing your time and money in to find that's a really good fit for you and ultimately gets you to the career goal that you have. Sabrina Brown [00:11:55]: I'm Sabrina Brown. I work at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and I am the director of graduate recruitment. It's truly taking the time to think about what's sort of going on in your world Sabrina Brown [00:12:07]: as well as the goals or outcomes. Sometimes the goals Sabrina Brown [00:12:08]: or outcomes for you or outcomes for you choosing your program is increased earning potential and very, like, nuts and bolts y, like, what can I do in my career? Sometimes it's what you're hoping to learn and just expanding your ability to learn about the things that you're passionate about or maybe it's expanding your legacy for your family. So really taking stock of that, but I also think taking stock of what's going on in your world and where those things intersect and are gonna pull on you so you can create the best support for yourself. So if you have a lot of competing priorities or passions, what is it gonna look like not just for you to have to sacrifice or make space for this new endeavor, but also the people around you and making sure that you're setting yourself up for success. I think websites and chatting with people and connecting with folks in your intended program is super helpful, but oftentimes prospective students forget themselves in the process when they're just looking at information gathering. So truly insert yourself, what you bring, and all that comes a part of your journey or will be a part of your journey in that evaluation process. Addie Caudle [00:13:20]: My name is Addie Caudle. I'm the communications manager from Tarleton State University. Really look at the program, talk to current students that are in the program, talk to alumni, talk to faculty because ultimately you're gonna be tied to this program for a year, two years, depending on if it's a master's or doctoral program. And you really wanna make sure that this is going to fit what you want to do and what your goals are in life. Melissa Yeung [00:13:45]: I'm doctor Melissa Young, director of student support and belonging at the school of physical and occupational therapy at Bowling Green State University. Do a deep reflection of what you need as a student, as a learner, depending on where you are in life. If you are someone who requires that faculty be readily on hand for you to just walk into their office and seek advice, then perhaps the hybrid program or an online program may not be a good fit for you. But if you're someone who's working full time and you just need to get into a degree program that you can finish quickly, then perhaps looking into an online program would be a good fit for you. James Monahan [00:14:33]: I'm James Monahan. I'm the director of graduate and international admissions at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. Number one, I would have them check on the school's website for the curriculum. I think you need to look at what classes you're going to be able to take and make sure it really fits with your interest because there's going to be slight differences from every school and you want something that you're really passionate about. So I would really suggest you go there. And one other thing I'll just add is that trust your instincts. Sometimes there's a school something just appeals to you about the school and that's actually okay and not a bad reason for choosing a program. Ben Webb [00:15:12]: Hello. I am Jamie Crampton. I work for Gecko Engage, a software company in higher education headquartered out of Edinburgh. I also live in Edinburgh, Scotland. So I'm gonna answer these questions from the lens of The UK education sector, but hopefully, it's also applicable to The US as well. First of all, pursue your personal preferences, what you think you would enjoy studying. That's the most important factor, I think, in any decision on which program is the right fit. But take that with a pinch of salt and also consider the programs that are... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/36510760

From Artist to Leader: Barb Whitney’s Journey in Arts Administration 05/19/2025

From Artist to Leader: Barb Whitney’s Journey in Arts Administration Thinking about graduate school can sometimes feel overwhelming—especially if you’ve spent years building a career and are contemplating a return to the classroom. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School podcast, sat down with , an accomplished artist, educator, and arts administrator, to discuss her inspiring journey through graduate school and how it shaped her professional trajectory. Barb’s story stands as a testament to the transformative power of lifelong learning and the value of embracing new challenges. After earning her undergraduate degree in art history from Kalamazoo College, Barb dedicated years to working in various roles in the arts. However, she reached a pivotal moment: to advance to the role of executive director, she realized further education was essential. With encouragement from mentors and a clear vision for her future, Barb made the courageous decision to pursue a Master of Arts in Arts Administration at the University of Michigan Flint. In the episode, Barb discusses the unique blend of excitement and anxiety that came with returning to school after a significant gap. She candidly describes adapting to newer technologies, learning to ask for help, and finding the most effective ways to study in a graduate-level environment. Her openness about facing a steep learning curve—and conquering it—offers valuable reassurance to anyone wondering if they’re truly “ready” for grad school. A key theme in Barb’s journey is the immense value of practical, real-world application. She simultaneously took on the role of executive director while pursuing her studies, creating an enriching feedback loop between classroom learning and workplace challenges. She also highlights how the University of Michigan’s reputation and rigorous curriculum opened doors for national fellowships, provided invaluable networking opportunities, and allowed her to tailor her education with field trips and independent study projects directly connected to her passions. Barb’s advice for aspiring grad students is both practical and inspiring: seek out ways to fund your education (such as research fellowships), don’t hesitate to ask for support, and recognize the broad impact a graduate degree in the arts can have—not just on your career, but on your community. The arts, she reminds us, are powerful drivers of health, well-being, and creativity in every field. Whether you’re considering grad school immediately after your undergraduate degree or after years in the workforce, Barb Whitney’s story is packed with wisdom and encouragement. Tune in to this episode of Victors in Grad School for a candid conversation filled with actionable advice and hope for anyone on a similar journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Louis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, I love being able to be on this journey with you. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Because no matter where you are, as you are either looking at graduate school, thinking about graduate school, preparing for graduate school, or currently in graduate school, it is this continuum, this journey that you go from that first inkling of wanting to continue your education all the way to post graduation. And there are definitely things that you can do day in, day out to prepare yourself, but also to continue to work through the process of finding success in that journey. And that's why this podcast exists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:04]: Every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone to graduate school or are currently in graduate school that have figured this out for themselves. And everybody has to figure it out in different ways. What I'm trying to do with you is give you some of those tools ahead of time so you don't have to hit so many bumps along the road. So this week we've got another great guest. Barb Whitney is with us. And Barb is an artist, an educator, an administrator. She's done many different things in being a champion for the arts. And through her own experience, not only professionally, but through her education, she started her education at Kalamazoo College and got a Bachelor of Arts in Art History. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: And then after some years of working made a decision, made a decision to continue her education and getting a Master of Arts in Arts Administration. We'll talk more about that. But I'm really excited to have her here. Barb, thanks so much for being here. Barb Whitney [00:02:06]: Thank you. I'm delighted to be with you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: Well, I am excited to have you. You and I have known each other for quite some time over our time working in the Lansing area. And as I mentioned, you did your undergraduate work at Kalamazoo College and you got that bachelor of arts degree in art and art history. And then you graduated and you went off, started getting some experience as an educator, as a program manager, as an administrator, working in the arts in many different ways. And at some point during that professional experience, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to go back to school. Bring me back to that point. What was going through your head and what made you decide that you wanted to go back to get that graduate degree? Barb Whitney [00:02:55]: I remember the day that I decided to apply. I had been thinking about it for some time. I was in a role working with the Arts Council of Greater Lansing, and I had this incredible boss, Leslie Donaldson, who would regularly ask us, what are you doing and what would you like to be doing as an artist, as an educator, as an administrator, and helped me to envision my potential for the future because I was able to articulate that I wanted to further my education. I started thinking about if I wanted to go beyond being a program manager, which I loved, what that might look like as an executive director, and I knew that I needed to go back to school for that. I found a few different programs that were master's programs in arts administration. And, you know, when I was in my undergrad research way back in the day thinking about colleges, I thought about Kalamazoo College and University of Michigan. And when I had seen the helicopter campus view for the Ann Arbor campus, I was a little intimidated, so I made my application to Kalamazoo College and did my undergrad that way. But then thinking about an advanced degree and knowing that there was a program at University of Michigan Flint, I went and scoped it out. Barb Whitney [00:04:27]: Flint's a community I know somewhat, and went to that beautiful little coffee shop downtown and sat there and had coffee and had lunch. And I just thought, you know, I think I'm ready to make this big change. So within about six months, I had actually made my application to go back to school and been accepted and then gotten a job as an executive director. So I ended up doing my graduate studies at the same time as taking on a role as an executive director. So I did my first three years of being an ED. I was also in graduate school, and my board of directors was incredibly supportive of that time and really saw how much it enhanced our work together to be working in the field and to be learning at the same time using our work as case studies in the classroom and vice versa was really beneficial. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:20]: Now you kinda already mentioned this, but I guess I would love to get into your mind a little bit because there are there are many arts administration programs across the nation. You chose to go to the University of Michigan Flint, and I guess take me back to that point as you were thinking about where to apply, why to apply to that program. What made you ultimately choose the University of Michigan Flint as the program that you ended up with? Barb Whitney [00:05:42]: I knew that I wanted to attend in person, and I'm about an hour away. So I figured if I was already in Lansing, which is about halfway from my hometown, that I could do that travel. So proximity was a factor, but I also knew that I wanted to have some prestige and cache to the work I do, and University of Michigan speaks volumes at the national level. So when I was thinking about doing things like national research fellowships, the University of Michigan name helped a great deal. I wanted something that was academically rigorous. So if I made the commitment to go back to school, I knew I wanted it to be difficult. I knew that was part of the calculus at the time, and I did find that. Doctor. Barb Whitney [00:06:30]: Sarah Lippert was my advisor and was just exemplary in what felt like a million ways, but also very challenging. And that's part of what I've been looking for. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:40]: Now everybody that goes back to school and goes into a graduate degree goes through a transition. You went from undergrad, you had a I'm gonna say a wide gap between going to undergrad and going into graduate school. So you had a transition as well. Not only a transition from how you learned as an undergraduate student to how you were learning as a graduate student, but having to get yourself back into the mindset of being a student again. And you did find success in that journey. You graduated, you got that degree to prepare you for the work that you are doing and to help you in the work that you are doing. Talk to me about what did you have to do as you started in the program to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Barb Whitney [00:07:32]: I had to remember how to ask for help. I remember the first of the times we were working with doctor Lippert for a timed written exam. I thought I understood the assignment and thought I answered all the questions really well, and we got them back. And I remember doctor Lippert saying, would anyone like to retake the exam, Barb? And I said, yes, please. I'd like to retake the exam. And in the end, I did have, four point in my graduate courses. But those first few sessions, there was a a steep learning curve around many things. First of all, how to use the online systems. Barb Whitney [00:08:23]: Second of all, the use of technology in the classroom or not. I showed up with my little laptop, and I thought I'd be typing notes, and that was gonna be the right way. But that wasn't actually always the right way. Some professors required handwritten notes because they know the research about retention. So some of it was just learning how to accommodate each different professor in terms of their needs and interests. And some of it was defining for myself what success looks like and then asking for what I needed during those times. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:50]: So you completed that degree. And at the time you were an executive director working in an art space in the Lansing area. You were leading that work. And I'm sure that in the time that you were in the program, as you said, you were doing that work, and probably testing out some of the things you were learning from class into the work that you were doing. But talk to me about what you learned in that program, and how did it prepare you, not only for the work that you were doing then, but also the work that you do today? Barb Whitney [00:09:21]: Oh, every step of the way, it was beneficial. The coursework ranged from revisiting art history, which is some of my background, to which actually offered us an international field trip to Toronto, which was incredible. One of the most memorable experiences of my schooling was a a field trip we all took to go see Toronto, and it was just remarkable, the camaraderie, the fellowship, the networking that it offered us through that process. But then also, I did do some nontraditional ways of working, which I think I've always done. When I was in undergrad, I took almost a year to travel with a national touring group, and it required some decision making and some thoughtfulness on the part of administration to allow for an exception. And U of M did that for me too. So I had an opportunity for a national research fellowship about arts education during my time at University of Michigan and learning and growing. And I said, Could I do this as part of my work with you? So they waived a grants course for me because I was writing grants and I was able to prove that I garnered several hundreds of thousands of dollars for Lansing Art Gallery and Education Center, where I was the executive director over the course of the previous couple of years. Barb Whitney [00:10:41]: And then by waiving that, I was able to do an independent study that was a national research fellowship. And I don't know that every school would see the value in doing something so nontraditional as part of the work, but it ended up being that it dovetailed with my thesis as well, and that thesis continues to get traction. It's arts education as a fundamental right for youth in The United States. And so I see those when people read your thesis, you see it. And I get those notifications about people who are still using and citing my research. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:16]: That's always exciting to be able to have people reflecting back on work that you put so much time, effort into to be able to help the profession in some way. And I've had that same experience in work that I've done and things that I put out there. And when you get that ping that shows that someone's read it, you're like, Yay. So definitely I hear you and I feel that excitement that you have in that regard. Now, as you think back to the graduate education that you went through and you think about other people that are thinking about going to graduate school, what are some tips that you might offer to other students? Whether it is going to someone that's going into the arts or something else, that could help them to find success sooner? Barb Whitney [00:12:06]: I think if you have motivation to go back to school and you're thinking about doing it, there are many ways to make that possible. One thing I wished I had known about was a way to fund my education. My research that I mentioned helped me pay back my student loan within just a couple of years because I was receiving a stipend by doing my research fellowship. I didn't know fifteen years prior when I got out of my undergrad that I could do something like that. There are many ways of garnering resources that can help you go back to school to get your master's or to help you to go to school beyond your k 12 arts education experience. And then I would say too, if you're thinking about a career in the arts, it's so valuable to have a career in the arts because it offers you an opportunity to be with like minded people. We know some of the statistics about what the arts does for communities. It offers vibrant and thriving communities. Barb Whitney [00:13:14]: It trains a dynamic workforce. When we look at creativity in the workforce and it being one of the top assets that employers are looking for, I think that just sort of undergirds the rationale for folks going back to school in the arts. We know that the arts offers better well-being and health in communities, and there are opportunities to go into sort of the arts and in so many different ways, the arts and healthcare, the arts and I mean, we know there are also lots and lots of creative opportunities and careers like architecture, any kind of music related career, and thinking about the ways that vibrant and thriving communities work, the arts are embedded in those efforts. So I think a career in the arts and the degree that are incredibly valuable. And I think a lot of cities and communities are recognizing that more and more too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:11]: Well, Barbara, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for sharing the things that you learned and how you put them into place in your own professional career. And I truly wish you all the best. Barb Whitney [00:14:24]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:25]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu. /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/36510205

Overcoming Challenges: Kevin Sellon Talks Disabilities, Graduate School, and Advocacy 05/12/2025

Overcoming Challenges: Kevin Sellon Talks Disabilities, Graduate School, and Advocacy Graduate school is a transformative journey for many, but for , it became a bridge between his military service, personal challenges, and his passion for making a difference in the lives of others. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School podcast, sat down with Kevin, a master’s student in at the University of Michigan Flint, to discuss his challenges and triumphs. Kevin shared invaluable insights about his decision to pursue graduate education, balancing life with a disability, and how his education empowered him for meaningful work in advocacy. The Decision to Pursue Graduate Education Kevin’s path to graduate school was shaped by personal and professional experiences. After earning his associate’s and bachelor’s degrees, Kevin expected the doors of opportunity to open wide, but his journey took an unexpected turn when a job offer was rescinded due to his military-related disability. This experience sparked Kevin’s resolve to better understand disability laws and advocate for others in similar situations. Supported by his family—particularly his wife—Kevin decided to pursue his long-standing goal of earning a master’s degree. His choice also resonated with his passion for helping others, finding new purpose after military service, and advocating for the rights of individuals with disabilities. Selecting the Right Program Choosing the University of Michigan Flint was both strategic and serendipitous for Kevin. After considering a few options, including Grand Valley State University, he was elated to receive his acceptance letter from U of M Flint. He admired the institution’s academic excellence and flexibility, especially its distance-learning programs, which suited his needs both as a nontraditional student and an individual with a service-related disability. For Kevin, gaining acceptance felt like the beginning of a dream fulfilled—a step closer to achieving his master’s degree. Adapting to Graduate School Life Kevin’s journey back into academia posed challenges, especially after an educational gap and balancing family, work, and school commitments. To set himself up for success, Kevin emphasized time management and self-care. By taking small, consistent steps—such as dedicating even fifteen minutes a day to projects—and allowing time to digest information, Kevin found ways to stay motivated. He highlighted the importance of stepping back to recharge, spending time with loved ones, and not overwhelming oneself with too much at once. These strategies helped him navigate the complexities of graduate education. Disability Advocacy and Professional Growth As an employee of Disability Advocates of Kent County, Kevin directly applies what he learns in his master’s program to his role. He educates both employers and individuals about ADA laws, ensuring mutual understanding and compliance. Beyond this, Kevin is spearheading a veteran-focused program where he assists veterans in managing their care and remaining in their homes—a fitting endeavor given his background and passion. His education has enhanced his ability to view problems holistically, process complex information, and meaningfully contribute to his organization. Advice for Future Graduate Students Kevin emphasized the importance of seeking personal growth, even when faced with adversity. For individuals with disabilities, he encouraged them to take that leap into graduate education, as their unique perspectives are vital in advocacy and policy-making. Additionally, Kevin advised approaching large projects step by step and leveraging support networks, whether through family, mentors, or university resources. Kevin’s story demonstrates the profound impact of determination, resilience, and education. By leaning into his passion for advocacy and persevering through challenges, he’s carving a new path of service and empowerment. His journey offers a valuable roadmap for anyone considering graduate school as a means of turning their personal experiences into actionable change for others. Call to Action: To learn more about graduate opportunities at the University of Michigan Flint, visit . And remember—your journey can lead to purpose and impact, just as Kevin’s has. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to the victors in grad school podcast. I'm your host, Doctor. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan Flint. And I'm really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, I love being able to be on this journey with you. And I call it a journey because it is a journey and you have made a choice. You've made a choice to start either start thinking about graduate school. You've applied, maybe you've gotten accepted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:39]: Maybe you're in graduate school right now, and you're looking for that light at the end of the tunnel. No matter where you are, you're on a journey. It's a continuum that you're going to be going through to be able to take those steps one day at a time as you're working toward the goals that you've set for yourself. And that's why this podcast exists. I am so excited to have you here today to be able to help you on this journey because there are things that you can do right now, as you're listening, as you leave our conversation today, to be able to take those micro steps or macro steps that'll help you along that path to help you define success as you work toward that graduate degree. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences to be able to allow you to learn from what they've learned. And it could be positive things. It could be negative things too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: We'll be honest. Graduate schools can sometimes be challenging, can be hard. And that's another reason for that, for our conversations every week is that we want to keep it real. We want to have opportunities for you to be able to learn from what others have learned as well. And today we've got another great guest. Kevin Sullen is with us today. And Kevin is a current public administration student at the University of Michigan Flint. He has worked for many years with disability services and continues now working on his graduate degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: And to get there, though, he got his first associate's degree at Tacoma Community College and then went on to the Evergreen State College to get his Bachelor of Arts while also being in the military and serving The US. And I'm really excited to be able to talk with him about his own journey, which led him to graduate school to help you on your journey. Kevin, Kevin, thanks so much for being here today. Kevin Sellon [00:02:39]: Thank you for having me, doctor. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:40]: It is my pleasure to have you here today. Really excited to be able to talk to you. And first and foremost, one of the things that I love doing is turning the clock back in time. So I want to go back. I said that you were in the military and I thank you for your service and I want to go back. I said that you got your associate's degree and your bachelor's degree out on the West Coast. And at some point after you got that bachelor's degree, after you left the military, you made a choice that you wanted to go back to graduate school. Bring me back to that point. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:15]: And what was going through your head and what made you decide that going to graduate school was the right choice at that point in time in your life? Kevin Sellon [00:03:24]: Well, when I look back at it, when I graduated with my bachelor's degree, I thought everyone's gonna be standing there with opportunities here. Take this. Take this. And I found it kind of that next purpose, I guess you could say. And the education that I received from Evergreen State College was leadership, entrepreneurship, and that was kind of the focus of that arts degree. And so I looked around a little bit and decided, well, I'm gonna try to get a a position with this company. I'll just keep it with that. And two weeks before I was to start training for this company, they revoked my offer of employment based strictly on the disability that I had from the military. Kevin Sellon [00:04:06]: So at the time, I didn't know any organization like Disability Advocates of Kent County existed. So I had my journey of trying to prove a point. It was was the main thing. I was trying to prove to this organization that the Americans with Disability Act isn't just a policy, something that can be pushed away or anything like that. It's law. And why is it that it's so difficult for that to be followed for some employers? So my journey led me back to Michigan where I'm originally from after retiring out of the military. And while here, I I was working for another company as an expediter, and I decided my personal goal in life was to at least achieve a master's degree. So I just brought it up to my wife because I knew it was gonna be a strenuous journey at times. Kevin Sellon [00:04:55]: So I brought it up with her, and she, of course, was very supported, and that was really my deciding factor on having her support while I take this journey. And while in the graduate school, I attended a class with professor Sachs on disability law and, the disability policy. Once I took that class, I just had this revelation, I guess you could say, of the same thing happened to me. And, again, I really got a deep dive into the law, and I forced myself to learn as much as I could. And then that's when I found Disability Advocates also that the position here that I have is as an ADA compliance, I guess you could say, employment assistant, I guess you could say. Because what we do is when people come in here and they have an issue with accommodation or something like that, I help educate the employer as well as the consumer that comes in to talk to me on what their rights are and what the employer's responsibilities are. Because it's not just also to protect the person with disability, but it also does protect the employer as well. So I try to work together educating those two, and that's what led me to this passion. Kevin Sellon [00:06:04]: I really because it's a great law. It's been amended in 02/2008. However, I believe it does need a little bit more, I guess, for lack of a better word, a little more punch, you know, because it's so easy for employers to kind of get around that. And people, again, like I said, really don't know their rights when it comes to accommodations and whatnot. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:25]: So you've now been in the program for a little bit of time. And as you decided to go to graduate school, you probably did some research. You looked around, you tried to determine what was going to be the best fit for you, and you ultimately did decide to attend the University of Michigan Flint, and you are attending via distance. So talk to me about that process for yourself and what made you ultimately decide to attend the University of Michigan Flint? Kevin Sellon [00:06:57]: Well, if I was gonna get into a graduate school, I wanted it to be one that was noted as one of the best, if not the best. So, of course, being from Michigan, I know I saw that the University of Michigan, University of Michigan Flint were top, you know, with some of the top, schools when it came to public administration. So I decided, well, I'll send my application to the U of M Flint, and I probably won't get accepted just being the person that I am. And so I my backup plan was Grand Valley State. So those were the two schools that I was kinda looking at. Well, to my surprise, as I was getting my packet prepared for Grand Valley State, I got my acceptance to U of M Flint. And, to be honest with you, that the elation I was able to feel and, I guess, shock because, again, I had that negative kind of that I wasn't smart enough. I didn't think I was smart enough to attend the University of Michigan, but they believed in me. Kevin Sellon [00:07:54]: So that was my decision. And to be able to get the first school for graduate school to accept you, to me, is just like, it was a present. It's like a great Christmas present that I could have gotten that I was able to realize the light at the end of the tunnel for my dream. You know, I actually coming true of having that master's degree and then also finding another purpose after the military where I can still continue to help people. That's, I think, the main thing, and working for a nonprofit was probably the best thing for me to do. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]: So you you found the program that you wanted to attend. You decided to go to the University of Michigan Flint. And as you transition into graduate school, this is a transition. And it had been a number of years since you had done your associates work, your bachelor's work, you went, you worked, you had your career in the military, you did some other work outside of that as well. And so there's, there was this education gap, right? You made this, you had to kind of get back into the mindset of being a student, as well as being able to be an employee at the same time and balancing family and work and school and all of those things. So talk to me about as you made that transition into graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the journey that you've been on in graduate school so far? Kevin Sellon [00:09:21]: Well, to prepare for it, it was really me doing a little bit a little bit additional reading and whatnot on what I could find about the public administration. And then, of course, trying to decide what I wanted to my focus to be. And my focus as a public administrator would be, like, social and public policy. That was my deciding factor that I wanted to be a part of, just basically based off of what the ADA said. So I did a little bit of research there. I had a lot of back and forth with Helen Budd, who is the veterans representative at the Flint. And she what I found out, actually, got her degree from there, her MPA from the University of Michigan Flint as well. So to have her answer questions that I had from the nontraditional student that I believe I was coming in as a little older than some of them that were there, and she helped kinda settle my nerves when it came to that because she also had the same feelings when she went into grad school because she had a short period of time between her bachelor's and her master's as well. Kevin Sellon [00:10:24]: And then, I decided to sign up for the mentee program to be assigned a mentor who had already been through, who could have been graduated already just to kind of because initially, again, like I said, I hadn't quite decided to work in the disability field, advocacy field. So, you know, just to find out where I should start looking for experience because that was the one thing that I felt might slow down my next career is I was getting the education, but how was I gonna get the experience? And that does lead to a lot some issues when it comes to employment. So I started volunteering around the community here in West Michigan and eventually turned into an internship at Disability Advocates, and then I get was hired full time. So and then to keep motivated through graduate school, for me, the motivating factor was having that support of my family and then being able to utilize what I was learning in the classes at my job because I started seeing the correlation between the two, how I could speak to the director and understand the finances that happen when it comes to a nonprofit or how to properly utilize research that I'm doing for the for the organization and how to address people with issues and also kinda snapping into that professional realm that I'm in now, problem solving and things like that. So Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:45]: so you're currently going through the program, you see that light at the end of the tunnel. And you're utilizing what you're learning in the program in this new career that you're in in this full time position as a disability advocate working for disability advocates in West Michigan. Talk to me about how you feel that the graduate degree has helped you, has prepared you for what you do on a daily basis. Kevin Sellon [00:12:11]: The help that I received pursuing my degree has been almost immeasurable, to be honest with you. I mean, the way that I I'm able to look at even, say, the news. You know, the news can be pretty tumultuous at times and frustrating sometimes when you're watching news and world events and things like that. The ability to look at it though from public administrator standpoint and some things I can understand. You know, I know it was frustrating before, but now it's kinda like decoding, say, for instance, what the government is doing altogether. And using it here, it's actually benefited me in the fact that, again, I'm able to look at have a holistic view of somebody's problems that when I bring it up to the organization, they decided, since I am a veteran, that they were gonna try to take on a new program and which was to also assist with veterans. So we are starting up I'm gonna be the first veteran direct care counselor, options counselor that we're gonna have here at disability advocates because my director has the confidence just in conversation that we've had since starting here, and he sees the growth also and what I'm able to articulate. And so they were like, here's this program. Kevin Sellon [00:13:26]: We're gonna give it to you. And, basically, what that program does is I sit down with a veteran, and they're given a budget from the VA. And it allows them to stay in their homes instead of being moved to a veteran's home or nursing home of some sort. So it allows them to decide their care, who their caregivers are gonna be, and then they become an employer. And they employ the person that that is gonna take care of them. It's called the veteran directed care, and I couldn't be more proud to even further my dream to help society, but also including the veteran that are part of that, especially them, and kinda get back to where I came from. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:07]: Well, congratulations on that. That's so exciting. And I look forward to hearing what happens next as that moves forward and as you continue to hone that and to to engage with veterans in West Michigan and beyond. Now, as you think about the graduate education that you've gone through thus far and you're going through currently, and you look back at the time that you've been in this and been working through it, and you think back to that, the transitions as well as the journey itself, What are some tips that you might offer other students, other people, whether they're thinking about a graduate degree in public administration or some other degree? What are some tips that you might want to offer them that would help them find success sooner? Kevin Sellon [00:14:54]: The number one thing that I I personally had to learn also is taking time for yourself and just taking that step away even though because graduate school can seem I don't wanna say overwhelming because if you have your time scheduled out, time management is down. You just kinda take a step away and be with those that are important to you. And that was my main thing is as much as I kept wanting to read because, again, I wanna be a part of the discussions that each of the classes held, and I wanna contribute to class time and whatnot. So I would read, but then I also had to remember that while the sun's out or not, but it's time to take the dog for a walk.... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/35401750

From Strength Coach to Physical Therapist: Amber Schlemmer's Graduate School Experience 05/05/2025

From Strength Coach to Physical Therapist: Amber Schlemmer's Graduate School Experience Unlocking Success in Graduate School and Beyond Graduate school is often described as a journey filled with challenges, growth, and triumphs. For , a physical therapist and alumna of the , her path to success was anything but traditional. In a conversation with , Dr. Schlemmer shared insights into her decision to pursue graduate school, the obstacles she overcame, and the critical lessons she learned. Finding the Right Path Unlike many graduate students, Dr. Schlemmer didn’t immediately decide to pursue further education following her undergraduate degree at Michigan State University. A few years into her career as a personal trainer and strength coach, she realized that her scope of practice was limited when working with patients recovering from multi-trauma injuries. This sparked her interest in physical therapy, and through careful self-reflection, she determined this field aligned with her passion for understanding human capacity and rehabilitation. For prospective graduate students, her story underscores the importance of embracing life experiences and listening to your professional instincts when deciding to further your education. Overcoming the Nontraditional Student Challenge Dr. Schlemmer’s decision to attend the University of Michigan Flint was influenced by her role as a nontraditional student. With a young family and deep roots in her community, relocating for a graduate program was not an option. She praised the proximity and high-quality faculty at U of M Flint, calling her program a “necessity” that ultimately became one of her biggest blessings. For students in similar scenarios, proximity, supportive faculty, and realistic planning can be key in managing academics and personal responsibilities. Lessons to Thrive in Graduate Programs Graduate school demands a significant adjustment, requiring new habits and dedication. To succeed, Dr. Schlemmer emphasized effective study techniques and embracing the grueling pace of her courses. Her late-night study sessions at a 24-hour McDonald’s highlight the importance of resilience and time management. Dr. Schlemmer believes that excelling in graduate school goes beyond academics—it’s about forming critical thinking skills and learning to apply principles flexibly. The Value of Practical Experience Dr. Schlemmer credited her clinical rotations for shaping her into the physical therapist she is today. Through real-world challenges and mentorship, she emerged with newfound confidence in critical thinking and decision-making within the profession. For future students, Dr. Schlemmer encouraged taking advantage of internships to explore diverse perspectives that enrich long-term career growth. Advice for Aspiring Graduate Students Dr. Schlemmer offered sage advice: do thorough research before applying to programs, maintain a well-rounded perspective, and remain adaptable as professional interests evolve. Graduate school may feel overwhelming at its peak, but she reassures students that the light at the end of the tunnel is worth the hard work. A Worthwhile Journey As Dr. Christopher Lewis aptly described, graduate school is “a blip” in the grand timeline of one’s life, but it is a transformational journey that prepares students for lifelong success. Dr. Schlemmer’s story stands as a testament to resilience, adaptability, and the rewards that come with pursuing your passions. For aspiring graduate students, her journey serves as inspiration to embrace both the challenges and possibilities that lie ahead. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, I love being able to sit down and talk to you, work with you as we work through this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. No matter if you are just starting to think about maybe I want to do this graduate school thing or you've applied, maybe you've gotten accepted, maybe you're in graduate school and you're looking for that light at the end of the tunnel. No matter where you are, it is a journey. And there are things that you can do to prepare yourself to be successful in that journey, no matter where you are in that journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: So that's why every week I love being able to have these conversations with you, to sit down with you, to talk with you, and to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that have been able to go through graduate school themselves and have found success in that journey for themselves. Today, we got another great guest. Doctor. Amber Schlemmer is with us today. And, Amber is a graduate of the doctorate of physical therapy program at the University of Michigan Flint. She did she ended up doing her undergraduate degree at Michigan State University. And then, as I said, got a clinical doctorate at the University of Michigan Flint. We'll talk about that here in just a moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:29]: But I'm really excited to have her here and to have her share some of her experiences with you. Amber, thanks so much for being here today. Thank Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:01:37]: you for having me, Christopher. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:38]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to have you here. And first and foremost, one of the things that I love being able to do is turning the clock back in time. I have the power. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:01:50]: I'd love to do that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: Yes. So So we're gonna go back in time. And I said that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University. And at some point during that time that you were there, you made a decision, you made a decision that you wanted to go further, you wanted to get another degree. You wanted to go to graduate school. Bring me back to that point. And what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:02:14]: So, actually, funny story. It was not during my time at Michigan State that I decided to go to graduate school. So, as a matter of fact, as I was going through my program at, Michigan State, I was that I was a a a strength and conditioning coach for, Olympic sports at Michigan State. And so I absolutely loved what I did. I had full intentions of becoming either a a strength coach or remaining a personal trainer like I was because I absolutely love the so passionate about the the human capacity and what I saw those athletes do and grow into. And so I was very set that graduate school wasn't for me, and I was going to continue along the path that I set out with my undergraduate degree. And so it wasn't until about three or four years after I graduated actually when I was working as a personal trainer and I started to take on some more multi trauma patients, some auto accident patients who had had sustained an automobile accident and had some kind of ongoing physical impairments. And so I quickly realized that my scope of practice was kind of being exceeded, and there's a lot more to know out there than, you know, what I was giving these patients at the time. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:03:11]: And so that's kind of what started the gears turning for me a little bit about what else is out there. Maybe I do wanna consider doing something else, and I dabbled with PA and pharmacy and decided ultimately that, physical therapy was the most logical continuation of what I was doing. And it wasn't too far away from being able to experience that, the potential in the human capacity. And so that's kind of where I set out when I started to realize that there was a lot more to know than what I knew, and I wasn't happy with what I knew. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:37]: Now as you started to realize that and you started to figure out that there was more that you wanted to know, you decided that you wanted to apply to become a physical therapist, to be going into a clinical doctorate program in physical therapy. And there's a number of different programs throughout the state of Michigan and beyond that you could have selected from. And you ultimately did decide to attend the University of Michigan Flint. Bring me back to that point of that search process for yourself, that application process for yourself. What made you ultimately decide that the University of Michigan Flint was where you wanted to attend? Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:04:15]: So I have a little bit of a different backstory. I was what you might consider a nontraditional student. So at this time, I had just had my son, who was my second. And so as I was deciding to go back to grad school because I hadn't planned on it previously, there's a couple of prerequisites that I needed. And so I I took them at U of M Flint, and I loved the campus. I loved the, you know, the classes. The professors were great there. And so you're right. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:04:37]: The DPT programs in in Michigan and really across the nation are pretty competitive. And so the law of averages states that you should apply to multiples, and I'd say upwards of, like, five to 10. Well, because I was this nontraditional student, proximity was very important to me. I had my home, my family, and unfortunately, we were not able to uproot ourselves and move to any of these programs across the state or across the nation. And so I put all of my eggs in the U of M Flint basket because I really appreciated the school, obviously, the location. I'm from a small town near Flint, called Flushing. And so, it's a fifteen, twenty minute drive for me. Right? And so as I started to apply to the different programs, I will say that I put my name in in the hat for at least two others just to kind of get my feet wet and understand what, you know, different programs are looking for, but I knew for sure that I wouldn't be able to, you know, accept those acceptances. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:05:25]: And so, U of M Flint was the the place for me, and I am so grateful. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason, because I don't know if you know the statistics, but there's quite a few humans that don't get in the first time when they apply for for PT school. Right? And so I'm very fortunate to say that I was able to be accepted the first round and the stars had aligned, and I was able to begin the program. And so for me, it was unfortunately not so much a a choice as a a necessity, but, boy, did it work out for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]: So as you go into a new educational environment for you, you had been out of school for a little bit of time. Now you're coming back into school. So there is a transition. There's a transition into graduate school. And then as you go along and through that graduate program, there are small transitions when you're going from year one to year two to year three and the expectations a little bit different as you go from term to term and what you're being expected to be able to do, to be able to prove to your faculty members to show that mastery within the subject area. So talk to me about, and you did find success in all of those different transitions. You ended up graduating, you got your degree, you've become a physical therapist. You've been out in the field for a number of years now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:34]: So as you think back to those transitions that you went through, what did you have to do as you were transitioning into the program to find success? And what did you have to do as you were going through the entirety of the program to maintain that success within graduate school. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:06:51]: I will say I'm one of those fortunate humans who in high school I don't tell my 17 year old daughter this place. Through high school, I was never really one of those ones that needed to study a whole lot. School and academics kind of came naturally to me. I'm very fortunate to be able to say that, and I do realize even my time at Michigan State, it laid the foundation and the the habit forming, the habit development, in terms of, like, studying and, you know, preparedness. But boy, does it not hold a candle to graduate school and the and particularly the DBT program. So transitioning into the program was really not all that difficult. I was taking undergraduate level prerequisite courses. And so to me, that was just kind of par for the course. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:07:25]: I was used to that. I say all the time that I would be a forever student if there were any money in it. If I could go to school for the rest of my life, I would love that. But getting you know, once I was in the program, I will say that it it was kind of a good dose of reality, really, if I'm being honest, because DPT programs tend to front load some of their academics and, you know, front load some of their what turned out to be some of their tougher courses, your anatomy or physiology or kinesiology, some of your your higher, more advanced topics. And I would like to say, number one, to set the stage for the rest of your, you know, academic career, but also to kind of weave those friends out that maybe aren't as strong in those those areas because that's exactly what we do, you know, a % of our time as physical therapists. And so that first semester was definitely a little bit of a culture shock for me. I think I had stacks and stacks of note cards because this was before a computer generated all of these lovely study guides and and study aids and whatnot. So I handwrote all of my note cards. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:08:18]: I was studying more than I ever had in the past, obviously, but, yeah, this came with a little bit of a a nontraditional path for me. So I would get home, you know, make the kids dinner, go through our bedtime routine, get them to bed. And then in Flushing, the only thing that's open twenty four hours is a local McDonald's. And so I would go and have a a cup of decaf coffee and stay there till two or 03:00 in the morning. And boy, do you get to see some pretty interesting things at that time while you're back there studying. And so I think the biggest, transition for me really was just kind of the meat and potatoes of the the course load, especially in those first couple semesters. But once you have that foundation built, it makes for great success down the road in the program because that's where the, you know, the courses start to become a little bit more niche and dedicated towards, you know, pathways that you intend to take. So they're just a lot more focused, I guess, and less advanced concepts, more critical thinking, if you will. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:09:07]: And and if I'm being honest, that's where I really appreciate my time at U of M Flint because I feel like they made really great clinicians out of us, giving us that ability to critically think and kind of think outside the box a little bit, not just follow the textbook, not just I say all the time in my my clinic that patients and their their impairments don't often read the textbook. Meaning, it's not like a list of impairments or a list of conditions. Right? That's you know, we have comorbidities that play a role and lifestyle behaviors that play a role in how patients present. And so it was a great skill to have to be able to think outside the box a little bit more, and I can certainly thank my professors for that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:39]: You know, as you think back to graduate school, there are things that you learn along the way that prepare you for the work that you do. And you're in a career area that is kind of lockstep in regard to you're studying to be a physical therapist, you become a physical therapist and you learn in the program, leads you to being able to do what you're doing. But there's also things that you learn within a program that may not be the tangible things that you're doing on a daily basis. So as you think back to your graduate school experience and you think about the work that you're doing now on a day to day basis, how did that graduate degree prepare you for the next steps? And were there any things that you had to learn beyond graduate school that you did not learn that you wish you had learned in graduate school? Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:10:21]: So I will say that the especially the U of M Flint DPT program trained me very well to be a well rounded clinician. Right? And this is obviously one of those professions that you have to have a license, you have to have a degree in that profession in order to practice. And so they they certainly did their job in terms of curriculum, making sure that students were prepared before they went out in their clinical, internships, the rotations. I will say that I think outside of the nuts and bolts that were learned in the program itself, the three ten week clinical rotations that we did, I think were absolutely integral. And for me specifically, I had one clinical instructor for my last rotation who really challenged me. And I will say, I went home after almost every single day of this clinical rotation just a level of exhaustion that you can't imagine. Right? There's a different level of physical and and mental exhaustion. This was literally everything. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:11:12]: And so I had never really experienced that, but it was because she was really challenging me and making me critically think about why we're choosing every single exercise and what that's gonna do for this patient and why it's so important for this patient. Because if we get two hours a week with this patient, which is more than most medical professions can tell, we have a really great opportunity to make a pretty big impact on their lives and certainly on their pain or injury status. So I'm really appreciative of not only the faculty, but those humans that continue to host students and teach the next generation of physical therapists. We we actually currently, have two in our clinic right now at primary prevention, and so hopefully, they're getting the best experience as well. So I will say the clinical rotations were great. Throughout the program, I will say that I knew I wanted to open my own practice. I knew that, you know, I didn't wanna work for one of the bigger companies that, you know, productivity is the standard and we're, you know, looking for, you know, how many patients we can see an hour and not the outcomes or how much better we can make that patient. And I will say, disclaimer, not every single clinic is like that, but we've had our experiences. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:12:11]: Right? So throughout the program this was in our last year of the program. The curriculum since changed a little bit since I've been there, but we had to take a management class, so business management class. Throughout that class, we had to create a business plan. We had to do a full proforma. We had to basically create a clinic. And so I looked at my group who no one else had intentions of opening their own clinic. And I looked at my group and I said, do you guys think it's okay if we do this for, like, Flushing, Michigan area for my clinic? I'll give you all the information. And so we can sit down and create this. Dr. Amber Schlemmer [00:12:38]: To me, it's much more tangible than a hypothetical clinic that we're about to create. Right? And so a little bit of strategy there in terms of my classmates help me write my business plan. Right? But ultimately, learning more about what it means to be a private practice owner and how that differs from being your clinical PT, basically. I will say I'm very much a PT first, very much a businesswoman second, but I'm learning quite a... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/35401500

Inclusive Excellence in Higher Education: A Pathway to Equity and Belonging 04/28/2025

Inclusive Excellence in Higher Education: A Pathway to Equity and Belonging Inclusive excellence is redefining the landscape of higher education, emphasizing the intentional and purposeful work that fosters diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in every corner of academia. , in conversation with , brings to light the multifaceted aspects of inclusive excellence (IE) and its transformative potential on campuses. Here’s a deeper dive into the key takeaways from their enlightening discussion. Defining Inclusive Excellence: The Foundation of Inclusion Dr. Tookes articulated IE as “consistent efforts to advance diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in post-secondary education.” Diversity captures the richness in human differences, equity ensures resources are tailored to individual needs, inclusion fosters empowerment and acceptance, and belonging extends inclusion to form deep, authentic connections. Together, these components create a cohesive and supportive environment in higher education. IE is more than just a concept. It is the seam that ties the entire fabric of a collegiate institution together. Much like a well-constructed garment that fits impeccably, an inclusive campus environment makes every student feel seen, valued, and heard. IE in Action: Where Inclusion Finds its Voice on Campus Dr. Tookes highlighted the presence of IE in three fundamental areas—policies, practices, and pedagogy. Policies such as anti-discrimination and accommodations for students with disabilities are vital for equitable access. Practices, ranging from recruitment and retention efforts to resource allocation, ensure inclusivity in all aspects of student life. Inclusive pedagogy emphasizes open, diverse teaching methods that allow every student’s voice to be acknowledged. Dr. Tookes also revealed surprising areas where IE impacts students directly. From equitable dining options that respect cultural dietary needs to events tailored for diverse backgrounds and schedules, IE extends far beyond the classroom. The Call to Action: How Students Can Practice and Promote IE Students, too, play a pivotal role in championing IE. Dr. Tookes encouraged graduate students to practice intrapersonal reflection, expand their perspectives, and maintain cultural dialogues that celebrate diversity. Promoting IE involves supporting inclusive policies, getting involved in community programs, and actively engaging peers in meaningful conversations. A Collective Responsibility for an Inclusive Future Inclusive excellence is a shared journey between educators, students, and administrators, fostering a culture where every individual thrives. Dr. Tookes’ compelling insights challenge us all to embrace inclusion with open minds and committed hearts to bridge gaps and build transformative academic experiences for everyone. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Hello, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining us as we continue with our Graduate Student Success Series. I'm really excited to have you here today because every time that we come together, there are opportunities for us to learn and to be better in the journey that we are on as students, as graduate students, and the learning that we are hoping to be able to pull out of this experience. And graduate school can definitely challenge you and in many ways can be challenging in many ways for you, can be stressful. There's a lot of balance issues. There's more. And today, we're gonna be talking about something brand new that we haven't talked about before. We're talking talking about inclusive education, and this is a framework that holds all members of the higher education community accountable for ensuring that academic success is possible for every student. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:05]: So this is really important, and that's why I'm so excited that you're listening today. You're watching today and you're here to be a part of this because we have Doctor. Juanita Tookes with us today. And, Doctor. Tookes is our CAPS assistant director. And we've had her on before, but this is a brand new topic. I'm really excited to be able to have her here to talk to you and to learn from her today. Doctor. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:30]: Hooks, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:01:31]: I'm just happy to be a guest. I am so excited, to be here. I'm always excited to talk to grad students. It's an experience that I will never forget. So I hope just for a little while, you'll, indulge me by just listening to me because hopefully you can take at least one thing away from what what I say today. So today we're gonna be talking about inclusive excellence. And just like what doctor Lewis said, this is a brand new topic, that challenged me to do some thinking. I presented on several different types of things multiple times before, but inclusive excellence is brand new. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:02:05]: So I was really happy to delve in, and create this presentation for you. Okay. So this is how things are gonna flow. First, we're going to define inclusive excellence. I'm going to refer to that as IE. And then we're also gonna talk about its role and impact. After that, we're gonna play a little bit of I spy to see where does IE show up on campus. What does that look like? Following that, we're gonna talk about how to practice and promote IE, and then we're gonna wrap up. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:02:37]: Then if there's any questions or comments, I'll be more than happy to address those. And if there are none, then I will give you my best wishes, and and final thoughts. Alright. So is it me or yeah. So this is me in grad school, and, this is about probably about four or five years ago. And as a doctoral student, I went to Oakland University. As a doctoral student, I distinctly remember experiences where I was not given the same opportunities for professional development, and success as my peers. I remember a specific experience where I stepped into my instructional theory class. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:24]: I was already burned out. This is probably about two and a half, two I I believe my second year, in the program around that time. And I was already burned out from the previous semesters. But I was excited because I was learning how to teach. When I was in my doc program, I knew that I was gonna be a full time university professor. That's the track that I was on. And so, even though I was really, really tired, I was really excited about this class because I wanted to teach. So learning how to teach, I thought, was very exciting. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:03:58]: So according to my program guidelines, this course was a prerequisite. It was a required prerequisite for teaching any course, which I would later have to do as a grad student anyway as a part of my internship. So imagine how I felt when I found out that, in my small cohort of four people where I was one of two students of color and the only black woman, I noticed that information about advancement was given to my peers who are white. But for students of color like me, it felt like an obstacle course to get that same information. This was very frustrating. It was very annoying because it seemed as though information that was easily given to others, I had to work to get. And it made me feel like, why am I not privy to the same information in the same way? Why why do I have to work harder to get, you know, that information? And there was multiple experiences of this, you know, for me throughout my grad school experience. And it embedded in me this message that I will always have to work, quote, unquote, 10 times harder to achieve the same level of recognition, respect, acknowledgement, and advancement, not just in college, but in life. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:05:24]: I know that as a black woman in my community, when we say 10 times harder, what that means is that you'll never have you're never gonna have the same start point. Like, you're always gonna be behind, and you're gonna have to hustle, and you're gonna have to grind, and you're gonna have to hurry so that you can catch up with everyone else, you know, to get, you know, the same types of resources, experiences, treatments, things like that. So, the point of this story, as far as my own personal narrative, is that inclusive excellence is more than just a concept. I think students may hear this phrase or this term about inclusive excellence, but I don't think they understand how that impacts them. IE, is intentional and purposeful work that involves consistent efforts to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging, in post secondary education. Understanding each of these aspects of inclusive excellence is key in understanding your student experience. So what I'm really excited about doing today is helping you understand how inclusive excellence impacts you as a student. As a higher education professional, I've observed that when IE is discussed, college students are not as present and representative as, they're not as present and representative in those conversations as they should be. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:06:47]: And this is why students feel as though IE doesn't is not associated with them because they're not present in the conversation enough. And so I hope that with this webinar, this informal invitation, to invite you to a conversation about inclusive excellence will help you to understand just how important it is as a factor that helps to shape and molds your overall student experience. So let's talk about some major keys when we talk about IE. So we have diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging. I know we've all heard these terms before, but I want you to think about these terms in relation to inclusive excellence. Right? So just some brief definitions here. Diversity is the, countless dimensions of human difference, right, with a broader view towards different perspectives. We also have equity, eliminating barriers that prevent equivalent access or full participation of all individuals. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:07:48]: We also have inclusion, conditions where all individuals feel accepted, safe, empowered, and affirmed. Then we have belonging, which I look at as an extension of inclusion as well. The emotional state where individuals feel a true sense of group connection as their authentic selves. And notice that in between these circles are plus signs. Right? So diversity plus equity plus inclusion plus belonging. Like, these are major keys that all factor into inclusive excellence. So I thought it was very important because I know when I first got introduced to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, I always got equity and equality. It's not that I got them mixed up. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:08:38]: I thought that that that they were the same and they're actually not. So I wanted to take a second to make sure that we understand the difference between equality and equity. So when it comes to equality, equality is this idea that everyone is given the same resources and opportunities to thrive. Everyone gets equal treatment regardless of their circumstances. Everybody gets the same. Right? Regardless of what background you have, everyone gets the same thing. When we talk about equity and how that's different than equality, equity recognizes that individuals do have different backgrounds. Right? They have different backgrounds. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:09:20]: They have different needs. And because of this difference, the way that resources are allocated, they're based off of those needs so that whatever that is as far as the person's unique needs are, they have an opportunity to receive resources that can help them be successful. So, again, remember, equality is everybody gets the same thing no matter what your needs are. With equity, it recognizes that because people have different needs and may require different kinds of things in order to be successful, those things are going to be provided based off of what your unique needs are. So some people in groups face more hardships than others, different circumstances that make things more challenging, like goal achievement even with very hard work and perseverance. So equity attempts to identify the imbalances and find find ways to restore fairness and justice. So I don't know how familiar everyone is, but there, this is a very common image to show the differences between equality and equity. And I'm a visual learner. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:10:26]: So a good picture always helps me as far as, having things really deeply resonate. So if we look on the left, we'll see a picture of equality. Right? So remember, equality is everybody gets the same thing no matter what your needs are. You can see that these people are at different heights. You know, they're different weights. You have people standing behind the fence. They all have the same box. They all have one box. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:10:50]: It doesn't matter that you're taller than me. It doesn't matter that you can see further than I can. It doesn't matter about any of those things. We all get the same box that's at the same height, and that's that. Now notice that the smaller person can't see over the fence at all. So even though I have the same box as you and you have the same box as the next person, I can't see anything. The person who's the tallest can see everything. The person in the middle can see some things. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:11:16]: So when we talk about success, how successful can we actually be if if we're just treated like we all have the same kinds of needs? That's the beauty in differences. There is a beauty in difference. You know? It's nothing to be ashamed about if you need resources or aid or help because the goal is for you to be successful. So if you look at the image on the right, we have boxes, but we can see that everybody may not need a box. Depending on what their unique needs are, they may not need a box. They might need more boxes. They may need less boxes. But at the end of at the end of this, we can see that they all can see over the fence. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:11:54]: They're all at, you know, the same level in order to see, even though in order to see over the fence, they might need different or more resources. So let's talk about the role and impact of inclusive excellence. So every garment because I, you know, I love clothes. So that's where this example is coming from. But every garment has a seam, right? As you can see in the pair of blue jeans right there, a seam is very, very important to a garment because it joins and holds different parts of that garment together. Not only does the seam join and hold, but it also contributes to the overall fit and the design of the garment. Without a seam, everything falls apart. You can't wear not one piece of clothing without a seam. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:12:39]: So just like a well constructed garment, I want you to think of IE as the seam that joins and holds together every part of a collegiate institution. I want you to think of your educational environment as the design and your student experience as the fit. And now I want you to think and this is not just because I went on, a shopping spree just the other day and everything was well in the world and everything fit right. But I really want you to think about how you feel when you try something on and it fits just the way that you want it. It looks great. It feels great. A great fit as far as a garment. It increases your confidence and increases your satisfaction with yourself and the garment that you're purchasing. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:13:24]: It, increases your comfort and it gives you a sense of presence wherever you go, because you know, when you step outside in this outfit, you are going to be seen. Okay. And so what I want you to think of as far as, like, your student experience is I want you to look at your student experience as a good fit. That's what we want here at U of M Flint. We want students to come to our environment, come to this collegiate design, you know, of an educational space, and we want you to feel confident. We want you to feel satisfied and comfortable being here, and we want you to feel visible. We want you to feel seen. We want you walking around just like this lady who is very happy with her shirt and her pants. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:14:09]: Like, being a U of M Flint student, we want you to walk around knowing that this is a very, very good fit for you. Alright. So let's play just a little bit of I spy with my little eye. Okay? Where does IE show up on campus? Now the reason why I think this is very, very important is because when it comes down to inclusive excellence, again, I think this is a term that students might be familiar with, but I'm even more sure that students probably are not familiar with it. And if they are familiar with the term, I don't think students are as familiar as to how IE shows up in their everyday student lives because it's all around us. Inclusive excellence is like air. Like, even though you may not be able to see it, it is everywhere and it can impact just how you experience an environment. So let's start with the three P's. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:15:05]: Okay. The three P's are places where people know inclusive excellence can show up or may not show up. But here at U of M Flint, it definitely does show up. So policies, inclusive, inclusive policies ensure that all students have equitable access to resources, student support services and opportunities while addressing barriers related to race, ethnicity, gender, disability, SES, and other factors. Some examples of different policies, that kind of, are inclusive of everyone and what their needs might be. Our policies, as far as anti discrimination policies and also policies centered on accommodations for students with disabilities. These are perfect. Now again, remember what I'm trying to do is make something so big and foreign, something very close and relatable to you. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:16:02]: Accommodations is something that I have worked with before, as a higher education professional. And there's policies around accommodations because we wanna make sure that students have what they need to be successful. You know? And so that's why I'm really happy, and and so happy to, have worked so closely with the DAS office, because the disability and accessibility support services office to make sure that if students need help being successful in their classes, they have a place to go to get them what they need to be successful. Let's talk about practices. Now, when I mentioned policies, I want you to think of words. Words because that's really what policies are. They're words and manuals and things like that. Practices are those words in action. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:16:50]: Right? So practices are the activities, events, and the initiatives that help shape student life, academic culture, and community. So examples, because I love a good example. Okay. So like recruitment and retention efforts. I really hope that this is resonating with you as far as how inclusive excellence impacts and involves you. I want you to remember how you found out about U of M Flint through recruitment, or efforts to make sure that you stay here and that you're happy here. Student orientation. You don't think IE is all up and through there because it definitely is. Dr. Juanita Tookes [00:17:32]: Also sustainability efforts. You know, how does the campus, work hard to make sure that, you know, things that are relative to the earth are preserved and that we know about this information, as well as resource allocation, like scholarships, for example. All of this has I e interwoven into the fabric of these different practices and policies. Now let's talk about pedagogy, which is the third P. So... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/35400870

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