Victors in Grad School

Victors in Grad School explores what you can do to find success in your own graduate school journey no matter what you plan to do. Through experts and individual interviews you will be introduced to what it means to find success and tips on achieving success in graduate school.

How Many Graduate Programs Should I Apply To? Expert Advice for Grad School 02/02/2026

How Many Graduate Programs Should I Apply To? Expert Advice for Grad School Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, , Director of Graduate Programs at the . Really excited that you're back again this week. And today I don't have a guest. I am talking to you about some of the questions that I have gotten from over the time that we've been doing this podcast and over the years to try and help to answer some of your questions. And today, the question that we're going to be answering is, how many graduate programs should you apply to? If you’ve started researching graduate school, there’s a moment that almost always happens. At first, it’s exciting — you’re exploring programs, imagining the possibilities, picturing yourself in a new career or stepping into a leadership role. You start bookmarking program pages, saving “how to apply” checklists, and telling yourself, Okay… I’m really doing this. And then… reality hits. You realize there are a lot of graduate programs out there. A LOT. You might find yourself asking: “Should I apply to just one program?” “What if I only apply to two and don’t get in?” “What if I apply to ten and burn out halfway through?” “What’s the smart number?” “What do people normally do?” If that’s you — first, take a deep breath. You’re not behind. You’re not doing it wrong. And you’re definitely not the only person trying to solve this puzzle. Today we’re going to walk through this question together: How many graduate programs should you apply to? And I’ll give you a clear recommendation — but even more importantly, I’ll help you choose the right number for you. The honest answer: it depends… but not as much as you think I know “it depends” can be the most annoying answer ever, so let me say this upfront: Most prospective graduate students should apply to between 3 and 6 programs. That’s not just a random number — it’s the sweet spot where you: give yourself strong options, reduce risk of not getting in anywhere, and avoid overwhelming yourself with too many applications. But of course, there are reasons to apply to fewer… or more. So instead of giving you a number and sending you on your way, I want to help you decide: What’s realistic for your time and energy What’s appropriate for your field What’s strategic for your goals What gives you the best chance at admission and the best chance at success once you’re in Because here’s what I tell students all the time: Getting accepted matters… but choosing the right program matters more. Start with this: What kind of graduate applicant are you? Before we get into numbers, I want to ask you a question. When you picture applying to grad school, are you someone who: 1) Wants a clear, simple plan You want 2–3 strong options, you want to focus, and you want to avoid the stress of “too many choices.” 2) Wants options and flexibility You want to be strategic, apply broadly, compare offers, and decide later. 3) Is feeling uncertain and trying to “make sure” You’re not totally confident yet — and applying to more programs feels like a way to protect yourself. There’s no wrong answer here. But knowing which one you are helps you choose your best number. A helpful framework: Dream, Fit, and Safe One of the best ways to build your graduate school list is to include three categories: Dream Programs These are highly competitive or highly selective. You would LOVE to get in — but you know it’s not guaranteed. Fit Programs These are strong matches. Your academic background, experience, and goals align well. Safe Programs These are programs where you have a strong likelihood of admission. You’d still be happy attending — and they reduce anxiety. Now here’s the magic: A strong grad application plan includes a mix of all three. That way you avoid the two biggest mistakes applicants make: applying only to the most competitive programs applying randomly without a strategy So… how many programs should you apply to? Let’s break it into realistic options. Option 1: Apply to 1–2 programs This is okay if… You are geographically limited (family, job, caregiver responsibilities) You are applying to a very specific program that only a few schools offer You are already connected to a faculty member or advisor You are 100% sure this is the right program for you You have a backup plan if you don’t get in This can work. But I’ll be honest — the risk is higher. Because even strong applicants get denied sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with them. Examples include: limited cohort size funding availability faculty capacity too many qualified applicants So if you’re applying to only one program, I encourage you to ask: “If I don’t get in this cycle… what’s my plan B?” If you have a good answer, applying to 1–2 programs can absolutely be a smart choice. Option 2: Apply to 3–4 programs (recommended for most people) This is the “balanced” plan. It works well when: You have limited time to apply You are working full-time You want to submit strong applications instead of rushing You want options, but you don’t want overload A 3–4 program plan typically looks like this: 1 Dream 2 Fit 1 Safe If you want a straightforward, smart plan — this is it. Option 3: Apply to 5–6 programs (great if you want more options) This is also a strong approach — especially if: You’re applying in a competitive field You’re hoping for assistantships or funding You want flexibility in program format (online, hybrid, in-person) You want multiple choices for location or faculty A 5–6 program plan might look like: 2 Dream 2–3 Fit 1 Safe This gives you a strong chance of acceptance and the ability to compare offers. Option 4: Apply to 7+ programs This may be necessary if: You’re applying to highly competitive programs (like clinical psych, funded PhDs, top-tier research programs) You’re chasing assistantships and want to maximize funding chances You’re applying nationally with flexible location But I’ll warn you: applying to 7+ programs can quickly become too much. Here’s why: Graduate applications aren’t like undergrad applications. They usually require: detailed personal statements program-specific essays recommendation letters writing samples resumes/CVs sometimes interviews And each application needs to feel personal and intentional. If you apply to too many programs, the quality can drop — and that can cost you admission. So if you’re going beyond 6 programs, be sure you have: a clear timeline support (like a mentor, advisor, coach) and enough bandwidth to write well Here’s what most people forget: applications cost money and energy Let’s talk about the “invisible cost.” Yes — graduate apps can have fees. But the bigger cost is time and emotional energy. Because every program you apply to requires you to: imagine yourself there research faculty and curriculum write about your goals craft your future into words feel the hope and anxiety of “what if?” And that adds up. If you apply to 10 programs and burn out, you may end up submitting 10 weaker applications instead of 4 strong ones. I’d rather see you submit 3 applications you feel proud of than 8 rushed applications you dread. A Director’s perspective: what matters more than the number Let me give you the most important advice I can offer as someone who reads applications and supports graduate students every day. The best number of programs to apply to is the number you can apply to WELL. That’s it. A strong application feels like: clear goals a strong “why this program?” alignment with curriculum and faculty maturity and readiness polished writing And those things take time. So instead of asking: “How many programs should I apply to?” Try asking: “How many strong applications can I realistically submit in the next 6–10 weeks?” That will guide you to the right number almost every time. My recommendation (and a simple takeaway) If you’re still unsure, here’s the clearest guidance I can give: Apply to 4 programs if: you’re working full-time you want to avoid burnout you want a focused approach Apply to 5–6 programs if: your field is competitive you want to maximize scholarship/assistantship possibilities you want options across format and location Apply to 2–3 programs if: your options are limited by location or lifestyle you’re already highly confident and prepared you have a backup plan And if you’re applying to 7+ programs, you’re not wrong — just make sure you’re set up to do it sustainably. One final encouragement If you’re listening to this and feeling overwhelmed, I want you to know this: You don’t have to have the perfect number. You just need a plan that protects your energy, increases your chances, and keeps you moving forward. Grad school isn’t about chasing prestige — it’s about choosing a program that fits your life and supports your goals. So yes, apply strategically. But also apply with hope. Because you’re not just applying to programs. You’re applying to a future you’re building on purpose. And that’s something to be proud of. /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39861715

The Art of Grad School: Michael Sevick’s Story of Education and Achievement 01/26/2026

The Art of Grad School: Michael Sevick’s Story of Education and Achievement Embarking on graduate school is more than a simple academic step—it’s a deeply personal journey, one that evolves and reshapes your goals, expectations, and life direction. The latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast welcomes , Professor Emeritus from the , to share his inspiring story of growth, perseverance, and transformation through higher education. From his beginnings at what is now Mott Community College to earning a Bachelor of Fine Arts at the University of Michigan, and ultimately achieving an MFA—the terminal degree in his field—Michael Sevick’s trajectory is a testament to resilience and purposeful planning. He didn’t take the straightest course: after his associate’s degree, he paused his education to pursue music, returning later with renewed commitment to finish his bachelor's and then move into graduate study. A key theme in this episode is the importance of intentionality and adaptability. Michael Sevick discusses applying to several graduate schools, carefully weighing family, work, and personal responsibilities—all while keeping his professional and creative aspirations in focus. His approach underscores the value of aligning educational pursuits with life circumstances and long-term goals. The conversation with pulls back the curtain on the real challenges of graduate education: managing transitions, facing imposter syndrome, and adapting to higher expectations. Michael Sevick shares candid moments of doubt and anxiety—especially as he moved straight from being a student to teaching others. His experience highlights the necessity of support networks, mentorship, and self-advocacy in maintaining balance during demanding times. Listeners will also take away practical advice on time management, perseverance, and leveraging campus resources. Michael Sevick urges students to seek out help, use support systems, and remember that most people you meet in graduate programs genuinely want you to succeed. Whether you’re considering graduate school, already on your way, or simply in need of motivation, this episode is packed with valuable lessons and heartfelt encouragement. Michael Sevick’s journey reminds us that roadblocks can become stepping stones, and that with the right mindset and support, graduate school can be a profoundly rewarding adventure. Tune in and be inspired by a story of perseverance, community, and lifelong learning. Begin your own journey toward becoming a victor in grad school! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love being able to talk to you about the journey that you are on. And I call it a journey because every student that's thinking about graduate school and goes on a journey, whether you're at the very beginning and you're just starting to think about this, you've maybe you've applied, maybe you've gotten accepted, maybe you're in graduate school. Throughout this entire process, you're going to be going through a personal journey toward the goals that you've set for yourself. That's why this show exists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:48]: This show is here to be able to help you to find ways that you can be successful in that graduate school journey. That's why every week I love being able to have different people with different experiences that can talk to you about the journey that they went on. And then you can learn a little bit for yourself and take what you hear, set it aside, doesn't matter, learn from them, and hopefully be able to find some tips, some tools, some tricks, some things that you can do to help you on the journey that you personally will have. Today we have another great guest. Mike Sevik is with us today. And Mike is a professor emeritus from the University of Michigan, Flint. He was an associate professor of art for many years at the University of Michigan, Flint. We're going to be talking to him about his journey from starting at a community college to moving to a bachelor's, to a master's and then to teaching. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: So really excited to be able to have him here and for us to learn from him and his own journey. Mike, thanks so much for being here today. Michael Sevick [00:01:52]: Thanks for having me. I hope this helps. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:54]: Well, I really appreciate you being here. And I'm going to turn the clock back in time. I want to go all the way back. I want to go back to. Let's go back to the beginning in the sense of you started your undergraduate work at Mott Community College. It wasn't called Mott Community College at that time, but. But the equivalent of Mott Community College before you went on and got your Bachelor of Fine Arts degree at the University of Michigan. And at some point in that time of being at the University of Michigan, you had a calling. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:24]: There was a calling to you to Continue your education. Because you did get that Bachelor of Fine Arts at BFA and you could have stopped there, could have gone and painted and worked as a painter. But you decided to go and get that terminal degree. And for those of you that don't know in the fine arts area, the Master of Fine Arts degree is a terminal degree. So you went on and you got that mfa. Bring me back to that point where, where you said, where in your head you said to yourself, yes, I'm gonna keep going on. Why did you decide to go on? Why was it a right time to go for graduate school? Michael Sevick [00:02:56]: Yeah, you're correct that I started at Flint Community College, which is now Mott Community College. And that would have been 1970. And I was there for a year or so and left college to pursue other interests. I was in a rock and roll band and decided to do that for a while. But I came from a family of painters. So my grandfather was a painter. He owned Civic Sign Company here in Flint in the 1920s and that. And my father was an artist and my uncle. Michael Sevick [00:03:22]: So I just sort of. You're right. I probably could have always fallen back on do I need school? Do I need education? And that. But at the time, Mott Community College only had a two year program. And so I got my associate's degree, took the time off to pursue other interests. But then in the 80s, I decided to come back to school, to Mott. I needed a few credits in order to transfer. My plan was to go to a larger school that offered a bachelor's degree in fine Arts Arts. Michael Sevick [00:03:53]: So I got my associate's degree right after that. I got accepted into University of Michigan, Ann Arbor's art program. I took my portfolio and all my letters and a lot of energy and sat down with the director there, who was a wonderful man, looked at my work and said, we'd love to have you in our undergrad program. And I was in that program for two years and that. I graduated in 88. And I. Right away I wanted to go to graduate school. Because at that time I was already in my mid-30s. Michael Sevick [00:04:26]: And so I applied to the five different graduates. And I had a family and kids already, the five different schools in my area. I lived in Swartz Creek, which is near Flint. And those five schools, you know, Wayne State and Michigan State and U of M and just where I could commute to. I got accepted to three of them. Luckily, after my. My undergrad one of them, I was only accepted into the master's program. And I wanted the MFA you mentioned the terminal degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:04]: I wanted the MFA and to me to spend an extra time in a master's program. I thought I could focus my energy and just, just try to do the mfa. So I took the MFA offer. One is offered different packages. It's like a sports personality I guess. One of them offered an assistants right away and what that was was teaching. I would do my class load but then I also had to teach a certain amount. And those students that I had were the, bless their hearts, they were the freshmen people that are just first coming in. Michael Sevick [00:05:40]: And in Ann Arbor the schools was quite large so the senior faculties could actually choose and pick more designer friendly classes for them to work in. But I was lucky enough to then graduate with my MFA in two years. So 1990 I got out of there with honors and friends and networking and sort of the. I didn't realize it at the time, but now when I look back that was the ladder or the next bridge or the, the steps to the next part of my career which was I had to teach right away because I had all these bills in a family and all that. So I think still my last semester in graduate school I was lucky enough to get a teaching position at Schoolcraft Community College, which is in Livonia and it's kind of a feeder U of M. Luckily they would kind of look after their graduates sometimes and try and direct them into programs that they knew were might be available or needy. And then from, from there I was lucky enough to sort of come back to Flint. There was some substitute offerings, they were just starting their art program. Michael Sevick [00:06:52]: And I was recommended by again the networking thing that I made in graduate connected me to the school craft jobs. The, the jobs at all the other colleges that I worked at until I finally were was able to land a tenured position at U of M Flint, which is what I wanted. All that was my plan. When I went back to get my degree. I didn't want to move, I didn't want to sell my house, I didn't want to leave my wife and kids. Everything had to be threaded like a web. And I can't believe how things worked out almost the way that I sort of planned. Michael Sevick [00:07:27]: When you transition from an undergraduate degree into a graduate degree, there are different expectations, there's different perspectives, there's different ways of learning. And there truly is a transition when you go from undergraduate education into graduate education in those expectations and beyond. So as you made that transition into graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success. Throughout the entire graduate school journey, I worked pretty hard. Michael Sevick [00:07:57]: I made sure that I was kind of indispensable in a way. I didn't know what they needed, but I was ready to do it. Never taught that class, but sure, I'll do some research and I'll teach it. I know a guy who did teach that class and I'm going to call him and ask him some notes or what was his perspective. And I tried to use that. Luckily I had a couple of mentors who were very, very gracious in helping me when I had just anxiety questions. I couldn't believe, you know, I graduated from graduate school and the next semest teaching. And as I'm walking into the class for the first time, I was just going, they're going to find out I don't know what I'm doing and I'm not prepared for this. Michael Sevick [00:08:38]: And the poor kids that I'm going to have to be teaching. And then something kind of clicked when I walked in and they sort of hello, professor, or hello Mr. Sevik. And I was no longer that grad student and I was no longer an undergrad. I wasn't even Mike Sevik anymore. I was professional Professor Mike Saidk, instructor or whatever you want to call it. But that sense of responsibility made me want to do better and do more. But the question you asked about the undergraduate and graduate perspective, it. Michael Sevick [00:09:09]: It is totally different. I remember as an undergrad looking at the graduates in a particular way. That changed when I was a graduate student looking at the undergrad students. And then when I eventually did graduate and became an instructor, I imagine I looked at my graduate students a little bit different as well. The assistantship, the ability to work while I was a graduate student really helped me in that again, that first class. When I'm not a graduate student anymore, I'm an instructor. I'm walking into class. What do I do having that assistantship, even though it was under the. Michael Sevick [00:09:45]: My first year assistant, I was under the. I had a professor that I had to coordinate some of the class and classwork. They did that grading and the heavy lifting and I did the other stuff. But then my second year as a graduate student, a TA colleague and myself, we were given the classes so we didn't have a professor anymore looking over us and that. But there was two of us. So that was. Class was 90, but there was still two of us. And then when I got my first class at schoolcraft, my first set of. Michael Sevick [00:10:18]: I think they gave me three. They were manageable class of 2025. They were all classes that I really liked. A design class, art history class, art appreciation, a drawing class, the beginning classes. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:31]: So as you think back to your graduate school experience and you think about others that are coming behind you, was there anything that you wish you had known before you had started graduate school that would have helped you to find success? Michael Sevick [00:10:47]: I don't know if it would help me necessarily. It would have. I didn't realize you are invited into the program and you can be invited out of the program, which happened. There was four of us that got into the program and the mfa, and three of us made it through the first year, but one did not. And I didn't quite realize the seriousness of, you know, as an undergrad. And they can't really kick you out. You know, I guess you could flunk out or you drop out and all that. But it's very rare that the school says, we're going to ask you to leave. Michael Sevick [00:11:21]: So that brought home that second year. Things got more serious. I realized I probably had passed my probation point, so they weren't going to kick me out. And I was doing pretty good, pretty good stuff. But I didn't know that. So I think one's very lucky to get into a graduate program. And once you're in it, keep that in mind. Be grateful and work real hard and try not to burn bridges. Michael Sevick [00:11:46]: Everybody has people they like and don't like, but that's part of life. And you might have a professor that you don't care for personally, but, boy, I bet you they know their stuff, because they probably wouldn't be where they are at if they didn't. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:01]: Now, also, as you think about graduate school, did you find that there was a defining moment or a turning point in graduate school that shaped your academic or professional journey? Michael Sevick [00:12:13]: Again, I was pretty lucky out of the bat. So there were some awards and some accolades that I got that first semester, and my ego was inflated and probably a little arrogant and all that, but as an artist, as a painter especially, dealing in Ann Arbor is like a little Europe. There's people from all over and there's all kinds of skills. And the guy painting next to me was from China, and the guy across the. The hall was from Russia. And I had a Japanese. Just huge competition. And I think one of the things it did for me was it rose me up to that. Michael Sevick [00:12:51]: You know, you're always questioning yourself. You know, where. Where do I fit in? How good am I? Well, I'm in this level of my education. What does that mean how do I stack up against similar. Similar people? Probably a little more competitive back then than it is now. But like I said, there was only three of us that made it through that program and two finally graduated. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:11]: So talk to me about balance, because, you know, when you're going through graduate school, like you said, you have a family, you've got friends, you've wearing many hats. You're trying to balance being the good student, the graduate assistant. You know, there's lots of things you're trying to balance as you're trying to also be successful in your academics. So how did you balance school, work, family, other personal responsibilities while also being a graduate student in a rigorous program? Michael Sevick [00:13:38]: I think I had a wonderful support team from my wife and my kids and my mom and dad and the networking people that I made along the way, other fellow artists, and that helped a lot. I was always playing as a musician all through graduate school as well. So I was able to earn enough money to survive being a musician, but not to thrive. And at some point, having no health insurance and, and all that, I realized this is not good. So the idea of getting a tenured position someplace down the road really drove that car. But I had a wonderful support group and it, for me, it took a village to get where I am now. I don't know if I could have done it by myself. I probably would have tried. Michael Sevick [00:14:27]: But if one has help and support, even in the smallest ways, take it. I remember my grandmother, when I first started going to College, giving me $1,500. And back then, that was a lot of money, and I felt obligated to pay her back somehow, maybe not with money, but with what I could do. But that's an example. I think people love you. They support you, get their help, take their help, and then pass it on. When you're in that position, remember that and say, you know what? I can help you. This happened to me. Michael Sevick [00:14:58]: So let me. It might, might work for you, it might not, but. But at least you're listening. And I think that dialogue is important. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:04]: I hear from a lot of students that figuring out that time management piece is so critical, especially when you start in graduate school because of the balance and you're having to focus in on the academics, but you're also having to focus in on everything else and making sure that nothing, none of the balls are dropped. So for you, what time management strategies did you put in place to help you be successful? Michael Sevick [00:15:27]: Yeah, the scheduling on all of the different aspects of my life was really important. So I tried to get classes early in the day. I tried to be, make the drive home from Ann Arbor here by afternoon, late afternoon, and compartmentalize things that were important. Like I said, I did have a wonderful support. I do have wonderful support. My wife was able to take some of my duties, running the household or whatever I did and cover that. Anyone I worked for, I was able to kind of, whether it was a painting, I was working, doing commissions. Also if I did a gig, I'd make sure it was on a weekend and it was tried to turn down lesser paying gigs. Michael Sevick [00:16:09]: I thought, I've got a great idea. I'm just not going to pay for play for less money anymore. I'll charge more and, and I'll make all kinds of money. And of course that didn't work out. It was the same with selling my paintings. When they wouldn't sell for 500, I thought, well, I'll just double the price and see if I can sell them for a thousand. What's, what's the difference? And. But then I, I sold a couple. Michael Sevick [00:16:29]: I said, oh, okay, maybe that does make a difference. You know, you're self worth management though. I would imagine most anybody that's in a graduate program probably has a pretty good idea of what it's going to take or what it's taking to be successful. And if you don't maybe talk to someone about helping me organize my time and you probably have programs like that, don't you? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:56]: There are definite resources on campus that can help students to be able to figure that out and to manage... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39770615

From First-Gen Student to Professor: Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse’s Grad School Journey 01/19/2026

From First-Gen Student to Professor: Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse’s Grad School Journey If you’re considering graduate school, feeling uncertain about your career direction, or wondering how to overcome obstacles along the way, the latest episode of Victors in Grad School is an inspiring must-listen. In this candid conversation, welcomes —faculty member at the University of Michigan-Flint and Director of the Inclusive History Project—to share her remarkable journey from first-generation college student to tenured professor. Themes of Resilience and Self-Discovery One of the strongest themes throughout the episode is the importance of self-discovery and adaptability. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse describes how she began her academic journey with aspirations to become an engineer, drawn by the promise of a lucrative career. However, after facing academic challenges and realizing her passion for humanities, she boldly changed her major to Women’s Studies with a minor in Native American Studies. Her honest reflection on the embarrassment and fear of changing majors—and the eventual pride in pursuing a path she loved—serves as a powerful reminder that the undergraduate years are a time for self-discovery. As Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse puts it, “undergrad is really about self-discovery and figuring out what you are passionate about and what you’re good at.” Finding Your ‘Why’ and Keeping Education a Priority The podcast explores the critical importance of understanding your motivation, or “why,” when pursuing graduate education. Facing academic probation early on, Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse shares how establishing her goals helped her prioritize her studies over distractions. She emphasizes the necessity of delayed gratification, citing how sacrifices made in the present can lead to future rewards. For anyone balancing work, school, and life, her advice resonates: “To do well and achieve at a high level, education can’t be your side hustle. It needs to be your primary focus.” Mentorship, Support, and Building Community A standout lesson is the value of seeking help and building a support network. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse encourages students to engage with faculty, campus resources, and mentors—even those who may not share similar backgrounds. She credits her success to mentors who pushed her with compassion and honesty, reminding listeners that real growth comes from accountability and empathy. Navigating Change and Overcoming Challenges From moving across states, adapting to new cultures, and overcoming imposter syndrome as a first-generation student, Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse shares how each experience built the resilience necessary for graduate school and beyond. Her candid stories about culture shock, isolation, and finding her community in Michigan are both relatable and motivating for anyone facing similar transitions. Final Takeaway This episode of Victors in Grad School offers invaluable insights on overcoming setbacks, embracing change, and building meaningful connections. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse’s journey is a testament to persistence and the lasting rewards of pursuing a path that aligns with both passion and purpose. If you’re navigating your own educational journey, tune in for encouragement, practical advice, and inspiration to keep going—no matter where you start or what challenges you face. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, I love being able to talk to you about the journey that you're on. And it is a journey. Each person that is thinking about graduate school will go through a different experience and will be on their own journey as that leads them to a specific program, a specific degree, and then beyond the program into the world of work and what you plan to do with that degree itself. And every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share some of the journeys that they've been on, whether they are currently in graduate school, graduated a while back, or whatever their journey was. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: But each person can share with you something a little bit different. So today I'm really excited to be able to introduce you to a new guest. Dr. Lisa Laperouse is with us today. And Dr. Laparouse is a faculty member at the University of Michigan, Flint, but she's also also the director of the Inclusive History Project at the University of Michigan, Flint. And she has her own graduate school journey that led her from being in California to Arizona to Michigan and being here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited for her to be able to reflect back and share some of her own experiences with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]: Dr. Laperouse, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:01:46]: Thank you so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: So I want to take you back in time and I want to go back because I know that you did your undergraduate degree at the University of California, Davis. And at some point during that time at UC Davis, you made a decision. You made a decision because you were getting a Bachelor of Arts degree in Women's Studies with a minor in Native American Studies. And at some point you made a decision to keep going and to go on further for a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point and what was going through your head as you were making those decisions? Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:02:20]: Well, let me give you a little bit of background information. So I'm a first generation college student. And so the idea was sold to me early on. In elementary school, we went to Mott Field where they have NASA Aerospace, and they constantly said, if you went to college, you'd make a lot of money. So in fifth grade, I was like, sign me up. And I was very Impressed with my mock fields, I was like, I'm going to be an engineer. Engineers make great money. And so that was my thought process through middle school, through high school, until I went to college. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:02:55]: I went to college and I was a high performer at unfortunately a low performing school. So what that means is I did not have the best academic preparation for university life. And I think I started out having this idea of, well, you know, I played sports, I was class president, you know, all I have to do is go to school. So this is going to be easy. In my first semester I was on academic probation and I quickly had to change up my study habits and my focus because I thought, oh, this is so embarrassing, I'm the first to go and I'm going to be the first to get kicked out. So part of that though was I was still interested in pursuing engineering. And engineering requires you to take a lot of advanced math courses. And as a high schooler, I had the option. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:03:51]: My school did not offer calculus. If you wanted to take calculus, you had to be bused to a different school at 7 o' clock in the morning before school actually started. And I was class president and I had the option to take the leadership class with my friends or calculus. And I made the decision to hang out with my friends in leadership rather than calculus. So the first time I ever saw calculus was in a quarter system. So U of M Flint is, is on a semester system. A quarter system changes classes every about seven weeks. That is not how you want to experience calculus for your first time. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:04:28]: There were a lot of tears, a lot of office hours, and by my second semester I had realized that I can continue down this pathway, but it was going to be very difficult. I was rocking these humanities, I was doing really well and we'd have to read like seven books a semester. And I thought, well, this is going to be embarrassing. I told everybody it was going to be an engineer. I had the T shirt, but I ended up needing to change my major and then I changed it to Women and Gender Studies. What's now Women and Gender Studies was gender studies then. And to be honest with you, I didn't know what other job there would be other than becoming a professor with that job. So. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:05:13]: And I also was embarrassed that I had to change my major. And I had told everyone I was going to be this great engineer. So now I said if I tell them I'm going to become a professor without really having any idea what I was talking about. I thought that would be acceptable in my grandfather who was very Important to me. I grew up for the majority of my first 15 years of life with my grandparents. His response was, well, that's not too shabby. So I got the seal of approval to pursue that. So my process was, okay, I need to go to graduate school and become a professor. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:05:48]: But again, I really didn't know what that meant. And also at the time that I was studying undergrad, this was the time that affirmative action was being challenged. Ethnic studies, any type of branches out of history that wasn't just U.S. history were being challenged, like the validity of those. And so I was also thinking about job prospects. Was there going to be a department available to me to work? And so when I went into my master's program, which was at the University of Arizona, it was a joint program between Mexican American studies and public health. And then again, there was still challenges about the utility of a Mexican American studies degree. So when I decided to go for my PhD, I decided to go into a more traditional, direct relationship between the, the DEGR and an employment opportunity. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:06:45]: So I went into public health. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:47]: Every person goes on when they're thinking about going to graduate school. They, they go through their own journey to determine where do I want to go, what do I want to do, what type of field do I want to study? Kind of what you were talking about. And you ended up at the University of Arizona. So talk to me a little bit about that journey for yourself. What was going through your head as you were looking at different programs and trying to determine what would be the best fit and what made the University of Arizona the best fit for you? Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:07:13]: So I think the undergrad is really about self discovery and figuring out what are you really passionate about and what are you good at. And I had taken a special elective course with somebody that was in public health. I didn't even know that existed. I thought the only way to study health was to become a doctor. And I was not interested in that. I am something that's called a sympathetic vomiter. If you vomit, I'm going to vomit. I have a very weak stomach. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:07:45]: I just knew that I was not cut out for that. But learning about myself, learning about history, learning about my community, really was exciting to me. I was very interested to that. And that work I would complete first. And so that's some of the things you want to look for is what are you gravitating towards, what are you doing really well in school? What do you leave to the side because you're like, oh, this is agonizing. And that may mean you Know, unfortunately, changing your major, but the benefit of going to college is that you do get to pick your career. Like for me, most of my family do jobs because they, that's what they have to do to pay the bills. I have the privilege of doing something not only to pay the bills, but something I enjoy and get fulfillment out of. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:08:32]: So when I was making that transition, I applied to both PhD programs and master's programs and I was pretty defeated. How I decided to go to Arizona was I only got accepted to one program, so it was an easy choice and I had a very good gpa. But I think for undergrads that are thinking about graduate school, something to think about is PhD programs have really small acceptance. They accept cohorts, and a large cohort is 10 to 15 people. And they're mostly going to select, I would say probably 90% of them, if not more, will select somebody that already has a Master's. So it's important to look at the Master's programs as well and things that align with your service, things that align with your grades and any type of clubs that you did, because then they can see that you have this outstanding interest in that area for your graduate school. So for me, I had done an honors thesis in preparation to try and get accepted into a graduate program, knowing that this would give me some research experience so that I would be a more attractive candidate and hopefully get a position as a research assistant in graduate school. How I learned about the Mexican American Studies program at the University of Arizona was I was on campus. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:09:53]: I used to hang out on campus all the time and there was a poster on a bulletin board and it was not well publicized. And so they were actually quite surprised to see an out of state student applied to their position. And I was part of their first graduating class and it was a great fit. But some of the things that I did consider that some people may want to also think about is I did know that I wanted to go to graduate school. I had talked to a lot of people about it and there were lots of people that told me that they planned to go back to graduate school. But I noticed that they were five and 10 years out and still hadn't did that. And I was like, I don't want to be in that situation. Also, I was very cognizant of, unfortunately my parents did not qualify for school loans. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:10:41]: So all of my education was funded by myself, myself taking out school loans, scholarships. So I was very aware of after six months those school loans were going to kick in and I was going to have to start paying those back. And I didn't want to get a job and start a lifestyle that my income would support and then not want to go back to being a starving student again. So I was like, let me just stay a poor student all the way through and just get this done early on and not promise myself I'm going to do it and then never complete that goal. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:15]: And then after that master's degree, you went on and you continued to get Another degree, a PhD in health behavior and Health Education at the University of Michigan. That's a far distance away from where you did your bachelor's and your master's degree. And you went from warmer weather to very cold weather in the winters and having to adjust and really push yourself out of a comfort zone of being in an area where you probably were more comfortable and you knew kind of the culture and you. And you felt a part of the culture where then you moved to a brand new area. So talk to me about that decision process and how you ended up at the University of Michigan. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:11:58]: So when I was an undergrad, I did not graduate with high honors. And so I made it a personal mission that I was going to graduate with honors in my master's program, and I did graduate with a 4.0. However, they did not have high honors at my university, which I thought I was going to get the cum laude distinction, but the school didn't allow that. I should say, too, it's so important to have that high gpa because I did not test well on my gre, my graduate record exam. Same thing with the sat. And we know that one of the highest predictors of those scores is your area zip code. So it has to do a lot with the resources that are available to an individual. So, you know, I think I faced a lot of mental challenges, emotional challenges, about whether or not I fit in a university, because I just didn't have the same pedigree or the same experiences as others. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:13:06]: And it did take me having to think things through and remember that, no, I'm the one that's sitting in those classes. I'm the one that's doing those exams that I also deserve a place there. But that has remained an ongoing challenge. You know, I'm currently, I'm the only tenured Latina professor that I know on our campus, and that's a lonely space to be in. And that comes with some challenges. If I start getting heated in a meeting and are they going to stereotype me as the spicy Latina or whatever? So. So I got a 4.0. So what that meant was I applied to the top five public health programs in the country and I was accepted into Michigan. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:13:48]: And it's, I'll be honest with you, I only got into one program and that was U of M. And so I'm a religious person. I was like, okay, God has directed me. He only gave me one option for my master's program and one option for my PhD. And so I had only been to the snow once in my life before moving to Michigan. I didn't own a stitch of black clothing because you don't wear black when you live in Arizona. I only had tank tops and flip flops and shorts. So I was completely ill prepared to be in Michigan. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:14:23]: Also living on the west coast. I'm from the Bay Area. There's a lot of ethnic diversity. Did not that experience that so much in Michigan in Ann Arbor, even though Ann Arbor is a large campus. So that was also challenging in my PhD program too. That was the first time that I had ever been around a lot of students of color that were wealthy and were not first generation students. So it took me some time to kind of find my people in my support network that I had some commonalities. And there were actually a group of us Latinas from California that were first gen that hung out and kind of supported each other. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:15:04]: But yeah, it was definitely a culture shock. So I mean everything I remember when I, when I got here, everybody was driving American made cars. You know, because you have Ford, you have GM here and back in the Bay Area everybody drove Hondas. And I was like, where are all the Hondas? Where are the people with the piercings? Where's all the colored hair? Like I was just so used to a different way of life. And so I think that can be an unexpected challenge of how hard it's going to be to kind of integrate yourself into a new kind of environment. And so that does take getting outside your comfort zone and meeting people, joining clubs, getting out of the house and trying to find your community so that you do have that support. Because fortunately for me, as much as my family wanted to be supportive, they had never gone through the experiences that I had in college. So it was really hard for them to wrap their head around what the challenges were or why I was so upset about not doing well on the exam. Dr. Lisa Lapeyrouse [00:16:07]: And actually my mom had asked me to leave college a couple of times because I called home crying saying it was so hard. And she was like, if this is going to be this distressing to you, Then maybe you should leave. And I thought, oh my God, what bad advice. Like I'll suck it up, you know, so it's difficult, but it's not impossible. Find your people. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:25]: So you found success in your master's degree, your doctorate degree. And as you moved into those different places, there are different expectations and different expectations from being an undergraduate student to being a master's student, to being a doctoral student. Talk to me about those transitions for yourself. And as you think back to the transition to the University of Arizona, the University of Michigan, and to the different programs and the different expectations of faculty, what did... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39770575

From Community College to PhD: Dr. George White’s Inspiring Academic Journey 01/12/2026

From Community College to PhD: Dr. George White’s Inspiring Academic Journey Are you considering graduate school or seeking inspiration for your academic journey? This week’s episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast is a must-listen. Hosted by , Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan-Flint, the show features a rich conversation with , Professor of Strategic Management and Director of the . The episode opens with Dr. George White sharing his unique educational path, beginning as the first in his family to attend college. Coming from a rural, modest background, his story starts with working night shifts and attending a community college in Alabama. He highlights how determination and hard work paved his way to the University of Alabama and later, a life-changing exposure to Asian history and culture. A key theme of the podcast is the role of inspiration and mentorship. Dr. George White recalls the professors who encouraged his academic curiosity and opened doors to opportunities abroad, including studying in Taiwan and teaching English in Asia. This global perspective led him to pursue a law degree, and later, an LLM in International Commercial Law. Throughout the interview, listeners hear about the importance of having a clear plan and passion for your studies. Dr. George White emphasizes that success in graduate school isn’t about being the smartest person in the room — it’s about hard work, dedication, and being genuinely excited about what you’re learning. He also opens up about his experiences consulting and teaching in China, which inspired him to further pursue an MBA and a PhD in International Business. The episode is filled with actionable advice for prospective graduate students: develop a five- or ten-year plan, engage with your professors, and choose a program that aligns with your interests and career goals. Time management and perseverance are repeatedly highlighted as essential ingredients for success. If you’re seeking inspiration from someone who’s charted a truly international, interdisciplinary career — leveraging degrees in history, law, and business — this episode is sure to motivate you. Tune in to “Victors in Grad School” and learn how passion, planning, and relentless hard work can help you thrive on the path to academic and professional achievement. Ready to be inspired? Listen now and prepare to embark on your own journey as a victor in grad school! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:03]: Where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we have an opportunity. We have an opportunity to work together to help you define success in this journey that you're on. And it is a journey. Every person that is thinking about graduate school, that is in graduate school, has a unique journey that you will follow for yourself as you move forward and through that experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:42]: And though it may be unique, there are commonalities that most every person goes through as they go through that graduate school journey that you can start planning for right now. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's all about helping you to find ways to be able to be successful in this journey and find tips, tactics, et cetera, things that can help you to find success sooner. That's why every week I love being able to have different people, new people on, to share their own experience. And today we have another great guest. Dr. George White is with us. And George is a professor at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]: He's a professor of Strategic Management and the director of the Doctorate in Business Administration Program here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And he's at a unique path through his own education that has led him to where he is today. So we're going to be talking to him about his own journey. George, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. George White [00:01:40]: Hi, Chris. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:41]: Well, I really am excited to have you here today, and I know that your journey has been one that is unique, and you have had many curves along the path. So I want to take you back in time. And I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Alabama and you got a Bachelor of Arts degree in history. And at some point, either in your undergraduate work or after, when you started working and getting some experience, you made a decision to go back to graduate school and to get a law degree. And I'm really interested, first and foremost, for us to talk about this. And then I know you went beyond that, but bring me back to the point in which you determined for yourself that graduate school was the next step. What was going through your head? Dr. George White [00:02:25]: Yeah, so, oh, boy, it's very long journey for me. What happened was I'm essentially the very first kid in my immediate family to go to college. So I started off in community College at a very nice community college in Hanceville, Alabama, near Coleman, Alabama, called Hanceville Community College. And so I went there part time. I worked full time like many of the students here at um, Flint do anyhow, and actually work night shift and at a technology company producing chipboards. And then that company was paying for my education, so I would go to school during the day. So I'd get up at like 6 in the morning, study, go to school, maybe study some more, hop in the car, go work and repeat that. And I wasn't sleeping a whole lot during that time. Dr. George White [00:03:14]: So that sort of was my gateway into college. And just going to community college was an eye opener for me. But what happened was at a certain point I decided I wanted to be a full time student. After going through the grind of working and trying to do that and go to school part time, my family told me I could go full time to school if I wanted to do that. So I'll never forget when I applied to be accepted in the University of Alabama. When I got that acceptance letter, it was a big deal because I grew up in a very rural part of Alabama and actually was raised on a chicken farm in East Texas. So basically a farming family wasn't exposed that much to higher education. And here I am going off to the University of Alabama. Dr. George White [00:03:55]: My first year at Alabama, I just took classes in general. I was a history major. But what happened my senior year, I took a few courses in Asian history. I'll never forget. I took a course by a professor, his name was Lee Butler, he's actually a graduate from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, who was a professor in the history department there. And it was on Japanese culture and coming from basically the backwoods of Alabama, you know, being a Southern redneck that really taking that course, we read books on architecture in Japan. We learned about aikabuno, you know, flower arranging, sumo wrestling. That class really was, was my first point of entry into learning about the rest of the world. Dr. George White [00:04:36]: And then I took another course from a professor who became my mentor, named Dr. Ronald Roble, on Korean history. And I knew nothing about Korea until I took that course. And these were during my senior year at Alabama. So what happened was I became very fascinated by Asia and just the rest of the world in general. And Dr. Robol, who I got to know quite well. I worked very hard, tried to do well in his course. Dr. George White [00:05:01]: He basically encouraged me to stay at Alabama and become a graduate student there. He was the director of their Asian studies program. And so I stayed there, worked under him became as a teaching assistant in the classes he was teaching and took classes in Asian studies and started studying Chinese language. Then what happened was I ended up receiving a scholarship to go study Chinese at Fengji University, which is in Taichung, Taiwan. And I did that for about a year. And studying abroad was very interesting to me. I learned quite a bit. But what I really enjoyed was going out. Dr. George White [00:05:34]: And there's lots of opportunities in Taiwan that teach English as a second language. You can actually make a lot of money doing that. So I started doing quite a bit of that. I taught at a night school in Taichung, and then I taught at a private kindergarten in the morning and was making a lot of money. I had, like, a little penthouse I was renting in downtown Taichung. And it was a really good life. And what happened was I was there on the scholarship, but one of my employers wanted me to essentially convert my visa status from a student to, like, a working visa. So to make a very long story short, I ended up traveling abroad to the Philippines. Dr. George White [00:06:10]: Bumped into my wife the first day I was in the Philippines. Left the Philippines, went back to Taiwan, realized it's going to be very difficult to get her to Taiwan because of the immigration policy. So I basically moved to the Philippines. I'd saved up a lot of money. I had this little desk in my room of the apartment I was renting. I used to shove all of my cash in that drawer. I didn't even have a bank account there. And I remember just taking all that money I'd made and I moved to the Philippines. Dr. George White [00:06:38]: And basically I became a beach bum in the Philippines for a little while. So got married to my wife. That's what triggered, you know, when I was in the Philippines, I'm like, I have to do something with my life, you know, I mean, who's going to hire somebody with a bachelor's degree in Asian history? And I wanted to continue on. I was very interested in learning. I enjoyed the university environment, and I wanted to continue with my education. So I wasn't good at math at that point. I haven't even thought about business. So I did what a lot of individuals do that are more qualitatively experienced and have skill sets in that area. Dr. George White [00:07:11]: I applied to law school, and my LSAT score for law school wasn't really that great. So there's a school here in Michigan called Cooley Law School in Lansing, which sort of has a very different admissions policy than most other law schools. They usually. They bring in a lot of students, but then they weed them out. You know, it's a very rigorous law school to go through. And what happened was they. They brought. I got accepted to Coley Law School. Dr. George White [00:07:37]: And that was my. My only opportunity at that point in time. Listed at some other law schools like Syracuse and other universities, because I had interesting background. But I ended up going to Cooley and I studied as a law student there and I concentrated in international law because that was at that point in time, I knew I wanted to do something international in nature. Then what happened was, in law school, I was on the journal, the editorial board for the Cooley Law Journal, which is sort of a prestigious thing in law school. And you get to learn how to edit, and it's research oriented. There was a summer course called Scholarly Writing that I took as an elective course. And I took that course and I wrote a paper and the paper was on trade in Southeast Asia. Dr. George White [00:08:24]: And I took the paper after I was finished with the class. I did very well in there because it was very interesting to me. I loved to do research and writing. So I was very intrinsically motivated. And when I went through that class, I knew it was something I really enjoyed. And what happened was I took that paper that I wrote for that class and I got it published in an international law journal. And I knew at that time, this is something I can do, and it's something I love to do. And so then one law degree wasn't enough. Dr. George White [00:08:51]: So I went and actually I went to Emory Law School and worked on an LLM, an advanced law degree in International Commercial Law. And then what happened was, when I was at Emory, this is right around the time when China was joining the WTO, back around 2000, 2001, I did not feel like I'd finished what I had started out to do in Taiwan. So I wanted to get back to Asia and sort of finish what I started there. So I started looking around for jobs to teach law in China. And one thing led to another and a major university hired me to go over to China and spend a year there. I ended up spending two years there, but they hired me to go there and to teach international law as a visiting professor. And that's how it all started. Going back to my bachelor's degree, I found something very fascinating and I wanted to continue with that. Dr. George White [00:09:41]: I really enjoyed learning. I enjoyed the university environment, and I was fascinated by Asia and just international stuff, and I wanted to keep continuing down that path. And then when I got the law school and I took this course on scholarly writing where I could Bring my passion into that. That's what really triggered everything for me. And I knew that's what I wanted to do moving forward with my career. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:04]: Now a law degree is a terminal degree. You went on and got an LLM, but then a few years later you decided to keep going and getting both an MBA as well as then going and getting a PhD, another terminal degree. Dr. George White [00:10:19]: I got my MBA at the same time as I was working on my PhD, which is sort of rare. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]: So talk to me about that and what made you decide that you wanted to continue your education to get those additional degrees beyond the terminal degrees you already had? Yeah. Dr. George White [00:10:34]: Okay. So very practical. I was in China at the time, you know, I, I accepted that gig to go and teach at Habenomy University again. It was right around the time when China was opening up to the rest of the world. They were much more free market oriented than they currently are. I mean, they were following the Deng Xiaoping framework of opening up and trying to develop relationship with the Western world. So there were lots of opportunities at the time for foreigners with backgrounds like myself and interests like myself to consult and do things. So what happened was I was not in Beijing or Shanghai. Dr. George White [00:11:10]: I was in a secondary city, a little town of only 8 million people called Shijiazhuang, which is just south of Beijing. And there were lots of opportunities because of my unique background and skillset. So I started consulting and I was consulting with law firms as a foreign expert. And then I ended up being approached by development zones to consult with them and help act as a liaison between the Chinese government and foreign companies that were coming in and investing in China. And I started basically backed into doing a lot of business consulting. And at that time I did not have any formal business background or education whatsoever. I was learning by doing, essentially. So I had a friend that was a former professor of mine at Thomas Cooley at Cooley Law School. Dr. George White [00:11:54]: At that time he had moved to University of Miami, but we stayed in touch. And so about once a month he would contact me and we would talk because he was doing a lot of research on China and then I was doing research on China. So he would call me up about once a month and we would chat. And I told him, you know what, I'm doing all this consulting now in China and I don't have this formal education, so I feel like I need to go and get an MBA or something. And at that time I had already started publishing a good bit. And he goes, george, George, you ought to think about going and obtaining a Ph.D. you know, joining a Ph.D. program in international business. Dr. George White [00:12:28]: International business, really? He goes, yes, all your research is related to international business, because I've been publishing quite a bit on international trade, foreign direct investment, and different issues related to companies operating in Asia. So I'll never forget I studied for the GMAT, which is the entrance examination for MBAs and most business graduate degrees. I studied in a library in northern China during the winter, like the winter we have right here in Michigan where there is no heat. I'll never forget that. And I actually took the GMAT in Beijing, China. And then I applied to some PhD programs and there was this new doctoral program that had just started up in international business at University of Texas at El Paso. And they accepted me. I'll never forget, forget when I received the letter and they actually called me when I was in China. Dr. George White [00:13:17]: When that happened, it changed my life. And so I ended up going off to spent two years in China. And after that I transitioned into the PhD program at UT El Paso, where I also earned my MBA as a general MBA in management. It was an extension of what I was already doing. I mean, I had started doing a lot of business consulting in mainland China, and I had no formal background or education. And so I was interested in learning and getting some formal education in business administration. And I ended up going and working on my PhD and then also my MBA. And to this very day, 20 years later, I'm still using leveraging my legal background and my interest in Asia in my research and what I teach and do here at Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:01]: Now, with every degree, when you transition into those degrees, there is a transition because the way in which you're educated at the bachelor's level is different than at the master's level, is different than in law school, is different than in a PhD. Every type of school is a little bit different. Every type of academic area is going to be a little bit different. So talk to me about some of the things that you learned as you made those transitions through the different degrees that you went into and what you had to do to be able to first transition into graduate school. And what did you have to do to continue throughout the entire graduate school experience to maintain that success? Dr. George White [00:14:42]: Yeah, I mean, and this is something I talk to. I'm the director of our doctoral program here at the School of Management at Michigan Flint. So I'm always talking to students about this on a regular basis. You know, I think you need to have a plan. You know, I think it's the first thing you need to really have a Plan. I think the most successful students. What made me successful, I had a passion for what I wanted to do. I mean, I knew what I wanted to do and I was determined to do it no matter what. Dr. George White [00:15:07]: Okay, second thing, you need to have a plan. You need to have like a 5 and 10 year plan. Why am I doing this? How is this going to get me from point A to point B? And then what am I going to do? And you got to be very proactive and dedicated. I mean, for example, in all of my courses, I remember my doctoral program, my doctoral program in the law school as well, pretty much all my courses. And I was never the smartest student in any of those classes. And I'm definitely not the smartest faculty member here at the School of management neither. But one thing I can say, I worked very hard. On Fridays, I would be up studying, working on Saturdays. Dr. George White [00:15:41]: Whatever I had to do to be successful, I would make that happen. So I was very proactive. All the faculty knew me very well in all the programs. Starting my bachelor's all the way through, I was very... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39621970

Finding Your Why: Melodee Hills’ Motivating Graduate School Journey 01/05/2026

Finding Your Why: Melodee Hills’ Motivating Graduate School Journey Are you thinking about graduate school, wondering how others have navigated the challenges and triumphs of advanced education? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School” is a must-listen for anyone considering the journey. Host sits down with , a driven lifelong learner who shares her honest, inspiring path from undergraduate degrees through an MBA and now towards a . From the outset, Melodee Hills opens up about what first inspired her to continue beyond her bachelor’s degree. She shares how she found a passion for learning while balancing a full-time job and recognized the importance of momentum—“school isn’t getting any cheaper, and I’m not getting any younger,” she notes. Her story is a powerful reminder that sometimes the best time to push ahead is when you’re already in motion. The conversation dives deep into the “why” behind going to graduate school—a recurring theme in the episode. Melodee Hills encourages listeners to identify their core reason for considering graduate studies, emphasizing that a clear sense of purpose will carry you through the tough times. “Once I focused on my why, all of that other stuff just flew out the window,” she shares, recounting how filtering out “noise” from naysayers and self-doubt allowed her to stay committed, even when balancing demanding work periods and academic deadlines. Another key takeaway from the episode is the importance of adaptability and self-reflection. Melodee Hills offers practical strategies for managing the ever-shifting landscape of graduate school, highlighting the need for boundaries, constant adjustment, and supportive communication with loved ones and mentors. She also touches on battling imposter syndrome—a challenge many graduate students face—and how building relationships with both peers and professors helped her find her footing in a new academic environment. This episode isn’t just about hardship; it’s about growth and transformation. Melodee Hills shares how her approach to problem-solving has evolved—from impulsive reactions to thoughtful research and big-picture thinking. Whether you’re contemplating graduate studies or are already on the path, the wisdom and encouragement you’ll hear in this episode will help you clarify your goals, anticipate challenges, and find actionable advice for success. Don’t miss the full conversation—listen to the latest “Victors in Grad School” episode and get inspired to find your own path forward! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:03]: Where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, as always, every week, I love being able to talk to you about the journey that you're on. And it is a journey because every individual that is thinking about going to graduate school, maybe you're in graduate school, maybe you're already through partially and seen that light at the end of the tunnel. No matter where you are, you are on a journey. And at each point in that journey, there are things that you can do to be able to find success sooner. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: That's why this podcast exists. This podcast exists to help you to find some tips, some strategies, some. Some hints from people that have gone forth before you, that might be in graduate school now, that may have gone to graduate school in the past and can share some of what they learned along the way with you. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you. And today we've got another great guest. Melody Hills is with us. And Melody is a member of the. And Melody is a DBA student at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:20]: And she has already gone through a graduate degree once. Now she's doing it again for a different degree. And we're going to talk about that journey that she went on from getting that bachelor's degree, going to a master's, now going for a doctorate degree and talking to you about some of the things that she's learned along the way. Melody, thanks so much for being here today. Melodee Hills [00:01:40]: I am happy to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:41]: It is my pleasure. Love being able to have you here and to talk about your journey and what I really want to do. First and foremost, that I want to take you back in time. So I know you did your bachelor's degree at Ashford University, and at some point, at some point during that time when you were at Ashford or maybe sometime after that, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue that education and go from getting that Bachelor of Arts in Organizational Management and continuing that to get a Master of Science in Business Administration. So talk to me about that and bring me back to that point. What was going through your head and what made you decide that graduate school was the thing to do at that point in your life? Melodee Hills [00:02:21]: So back when I did my bachelor's degree. I was really trying to finish because I had been in school for over a decade at that point, and I needed to get to that finish line to finish my bachelor's. But then while I was doing my undergrad, I said, I actually enjoy this. And at the time I was working, I was a staff accountant, and school isn't getting any cheaper and I'm not getting any younger. So I. And I was actually enjoying the process. I love learning. So while I was in that mode of going to school and working full time, I said, I'm just gonna keep going before so I don't lose this momentum. Melodee Hills [00:02:54]: So after I finished my bachelor's degree, it took me, I think it was that summer. It was just a few months later, it was less than a year later that I signed up and continued on with my master's degree just to really keep it going. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:05]: So I know that back a few years back, you made another decision. You made a decision that you are going to continue that education and can go back into the learning mode to be able to get that terminal doctorate degree in business, the doctorate of Business Administration, or the DBA degree. And not everybody wants to do that. Not everybody wants to jump back into education after they have a master's degree. I'm sure that you could have stayed with the master's degree and been plenty fine with your work and continued on. So bring me back to that point and what made you decide to shake it up and go back to graduate school to work on that doctorate degree for yourself? Melodee Hills [00:03:43]: Sure. Having a doctorate degree has always just been a goal. It's always been a personal goal. And honestly, when I finished my master's degree, I said, I am never doing this again. I am never going back to school. Academically, I'm done. But then, you know, things change. Life changes and priorities shift. Melodee Hills [00:03:58]: And I got to a point in my career where I needed to continue my own growth. I was stalled in my career, and I wanted to pivot into teaching. I wanted to pivot into getting higher into leadership, and the stars aligned, and everything just happened to line up. And I started doing my research, and I found this program, and it worked. You know, I talked to my husband about it. I talked to those that I love and are close to me, and they said, yes, this is perfect for you. You're this lifelong learner. Do it. Melodee Hills [00:04:25]: So through my soul searching and a lot of phone calls and just thinking about it, I said, yes, this is the right thing to do for me and my life. Right now to advance myself personally advance myself career wise. It just aligned. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:36]: So you did decide to attend the University of Michigan Flint for that inaugural cohort of the program when it first started. And there are many DBA programs across the nation and you're actually located on the other side of the country from where this program is located. So talk to me about that journey for yourself and that search process for yourself and what made you finally decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Melodee Hills [00:05:03]: Yes, I did research a bunch, a bunch of schools, all reputable, great reputations, legacy. So Michigan, of course, its reputation, its legacy. It has a strong alumni association. It's been around forever, it's not going anywhere. And full transparency. The other ones were required an in person residency either two, three, four times a year, which was fine, you know, to fly to wherever that campus may be. But because the Michigan program was 100% online, that really worked for me as much as I travel personally as for working full time and just the other things I do, the 100% online was really what made me say yes, this is, this is the, this will be the best decision for me right now and in my current lifestyle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:47]: Now, when you transition into graduate degrees, there is definitely transitions. The way in which you're educated is different, the way in which the expectations that faculty have of you are different. And it's different at every level, in every type of degree. So talk to me about those transitions that you went through and what you had to do not only at the beginning when you were transitioning in to your different degrees at the different levels, but what did you have to do to be able to maintain the success that you found as you were transitioning in, to transition through that program and to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate degree. Melodee Hills [00:06:23]: It's constant reflection to see what works. So what works for me may not work for the next person or I may talk to one of my classmates or someone and what works for them won't work for me. And what worked for me last month may not work for me this month, you know, so it's just a constant looking and seeing where I am now. Someone just said to me recently, be where your feet are. And that to me just really resonated to just be where my feet are and okay, this is. I need to focus more. I have a paper, I have a test, I have an exam. Whatever it may be, I need to focus more this week than I did last week and just always be willing and flexible and fluid to be able to make the Adjustments needed and not be so stuck on an expected outcome because anything can happen. Melodee Hills [00:07:04]: So really just being open and fluid and being willing to adapt now, also. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:09]: When you go into a graduate degree, and I'm kind of lumping both of your degrees together, but I know that it's different at the master's and at the doctor. And as you move into a graduate degree, there are mindset shifts that you have to go through personally that help you to be able to find success. And you mentioned kind of the reflection, but I'm sure that there's some other mindset shifts that you had to go through to be able to get yourself in a place to get yourself in a place that would allow for you to be successful in the graduate program in general. So what mindset shifts did you feel like you had to go through at the master's level, at the doctorate level now that helped you succeed? Melodee Hills [00:07:46]: Mind shift. So I'll speak at the doctorate level. I, I didn't know that imposter syndrome existed until I got into this doctorate program. So that whole thing of, should I be here? Am I worthy to be here? You know, looking at certain people that have. Are in the program and just comparing myself to them, listening to other people tell me, you don't need that. Why are you doing this? And I really had to take a step back and eliminate that noise, because that's all it was. It's just noise in my head and find my own why. What's my why of what I'm doing this. Melodee Hills [00:08:21]: And once I focused on my why, all of that other stuff just flew out the window. And it was a shift of this is why I'm doing this. This is what's important to me and why I'm. I'm going to finish. And so I would just say filtering out and silencing the noise and the naysayers and all of, all of that other stuff going on to understand why I was doing this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: For me, yeah, that's important because you do have to always have in your mind's eye the end result, the goal at the end of the tunnel. I always talk about the light at the end of the tunnel because a lot of times when you're going through a graduate program, you do have to look for that light because sometimes it gets challenging. There will be challenges that you have to overcome when you're going through degrees. Talk to me about challenges for yourself. And maybe there's. Maybe there was one, maybe there was two. Are there any examples that you could share with me of challenges that you had to overcome personally. And what did you have to do to do that? Melodee Hills [00:09:15]: Working in accounting? I was a corporate accounting manager and we have month end close, quarter end close, year end close. And they don't care that I have a paper due for this course. They don't care that I have, you know, what I have going on. So trying to balance the time commitment that I needed for work and making sure I did a good job at work, as well as the time commitment that I needed for this program in particular. Because it's a lot, you know, there's a lot of reading, it's a lot of writing, it's a lot of research. So it did require a lot of time. So I would say that would be that just to understand, understand that part of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:49]: You know, one other thing that comes to mind, and I talk to students about this all the time, is as you enter different degrees and you insert yourself into that education, sometimes that imposter syndrome creeps in and self doubt in regard to how you feel as a student and whether you feel that you're good enough or you should be there, that you can do what you're trying to do. Talk to me about imposter syndrome and how that impacted you and what you had to do to overcome that. Melodee Hills [00:10:17]: For this program in particular, since we were the inaugural program, I didn't have anyone to talk to for an example or to say, hey, what is this? Like, I jumped into this. I finished my master's degree. Gosh, it seems like a lifetime ago. So I'm jumping back into academics, I'm jumping into a doctorate program. I'm learning what my cohorts do for a living. And I'm like, my goodness, how did I even make the cut? You know, so it was like all of those types of things. And then once I got in, I just immersed myself. I became an ambassador for the program, I became a mentor for the program. Melodee Hills [00:10:49]: I started just learning my cohorts and just talking to them. I learned that I know things that they didn't, you know, so we just kind of worked with each other on each other's strengths to help each other out. So it just. In the beginning, it was so scary because I just didn't know what to expect. But then as I kind of got my footing, it took about a semester, I mean, to be honest, to really get my footing and understand what I was doing and how I was doing it and understand the professors and how everything worked. But that went away eventually. But yes, it was definitely a thing of why, how why am I here? How am I here? But I got my footing. It's okay now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:24]: Now, you've already mentioned the fact that in going into graduate school, especially when you're working and you have family and friends and, and you're wearing lots of different hats, there is this balance that you have to find. So tell me about how you found balance in balancing school, work, family and other commitments that you might have had thus far during graduate school. Melodee Hills [00:11:44]: I just had to make sure I set the time and boundaries. Boundaries are so important with this. Like I had to set boundaries with my home. My husband and I agreed we were going to move my office space into the spare bedroom so that I could shut the door and so that I could have that time to really just focus. And that's just so important. So I would really just say communication. I have this paper due and I only have X amount of time before my next seminar to go over the proposal. So huge boundaries and communication and then execution. Melodee Hills [00:12:17]: Because it's nothing if you say, okay, this is what I'm going to do, and then you don't do it. So, you know, it's discipline. It's so much involved, especially working 100% remote and being home and you're on your own time and making sure you hit your own deadlines. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:29]: Now, you also mentioned the fact that when you went into this program, there was no one else ahead of you. So you didn't always have that support network and those people to draw from. And it is so important to build relationships, build relationships with others in the program, but also faculty and peers. So talk to me about how you built those relations, those relationships, even though there wasn't a class ahead of you and how did you build those relationships with faculty or other students and how that was impactful for you as a student. Melodee Hills [00:12:59]: So our cohort, again, we were all kind of figuring this out together. So we would talk to each other. We have a group text or WhatsApp group that we communicate through. But I. Another thing that resonated with me at my job was trust but verify. So as the communication will be going on in that group, that's great. But I just got to the point where I said, I'm going to actually talk to the professors about this. I want to make sure that I am clear on this expectation from the person who actually is giving the assignment or given the instruction. Melodee Hills [00:13:32]: So I would set up those one on one calls, I would reach out, I would email. Is this right? Is this what the expectation is? Am I doing this the right way. And I just started building that relationship and that openness and you know, certain professors I got closer to than others where I felt more comfortable to reach out to. Dr. White is amazing, Dr. Kelly is amazing, Dr. Asta is amazing. So there's this certain people that I started reaching out to more than others. Melodee Hills [00:13:55]: But once I got comfortable with that, because again, coming from corporate and then jumping into academic, these folks that have all these papers written and all these letters behind their name, you know, it was a little intimidating at first, but everyone was so open and so wanting to help and so accommodating and so responsive that it just became easy. And I just became really comfortable with not only bouncing things off my cohorts, but also just checking in with the professors. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:17]: Now you've gone through an mba, you're almost through your dba. As you think about graduate school and what you've learned along the way, how it's challenged you and pushed you in different directions, how would you say that graduate school has changed the way that you think, work or approach problems? Melodee Hills [00:14:33]: I went from being very impulsive to saying, wait a minute, let me think about that. And actually looking for things and finding information on my own and just being a more rounded thinker, broad just looking at things big picture. They say that 10,000 foot view, which I hate incorporate, but you know, I mean, but that's really the thing, you... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39619040

Maximizing Grad School: Time, Money & Mindset with Abigail Weycker 12/29/2025

Maximizing Grad School: Time, Money & Mindset with Abigail Weycker Graduate school is often described as a journey—one full of unique challenges, opportunities, and moments of growth. In the latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, host sits down with , a double master’s degree student at the University of Michigan-Flint, to unpack what it takes to thrive as a grad student. Unlocking Opportunities: Dual Degrees and Joint Programs One of the main themes Abigail discusses is the value of joint degree programs, such as the university’s Four-Plus-One track. Many don’t realize these programs exist until someone points them out, as was Abigail’s experience. By strategically double-counting certain courses, she’s able to fast-track her journey, save both time and money, and ultimately earn an alongside an MS in . Dr. Lewis emphasizes the importance of investigating whether your institution offers such programs, as they can offer incredible opportunities for growth and advancement. Transition and Mindset: Embracing the Graduate Challenge Transitioning from undergraduate coursework to graduate-level expectations requires more than just academic skill—it’s about shifting your mindset. Abigail shares how meticulous planning and using a color-coded planner has been crucial for her success, along with meeting consistently with academic advisors. Their guidance ensures she’s on track, understands course sequencing, and discovers new opportunities—like adding her second master’s—she might otherwise have missed. Making the leap from “just another day of school” to treating graduate work as an investment in her future, Abigail highlights how “taking it day by day, or even minute by minute” can help manage stress and keep you moving forward. Building Relationships and Community Another powerful theme from this episode is the importance of building relationships—both with faculty and fellow students. Abigail explains that being proactive about connecting with professors and staff transformed her experience. It not only made learning easier but also enriched her network, opening doors she never expected. Advice for Future Grad Students “Dip your toe in and try,” Abigail encourages future grad students. Go at your own pace, build connections, and remember: your journey is unique. The support you cultivate, both academically and personally, can make all the difference. For anyone considering graduate school—or currently navigating it—this episode is packed with practical wisdom, honest reflections, and encouragement. Listen to the full conversation to get inspired and equipped for your own grad school journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Abigail Weycker [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to talk to you about this journey that. That you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. You are looking at graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:32]: Maybe you are. You've already applied to graduate school. Maybe you're already in graduate school. No matter where you are, there are things that you can do today, right now that will help you to be able to find success in that journey. And that's why this podcast exists. This podcast is here to help you to be able to learn from other people, other people that are currently going through the graduate school, that have gone through graduate school. Maybe they've been out of graduate school for some time, but they can still provide you with some of those building blocks, some of those things that they learned along the way that can help you as well. Today we got another great guest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]: Abigail Weycker is with us. And Abigail is a student at the University of Michigan, Flint. She is actually in two different master's degrees at the same time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]: And she started the first master's degree while she was an undergraduate student. So we're going to be talking to her about the journey that she has been on toward where she's going, and I'm really excited to be able to introduce her to you today. Abigail, thanks so much for being here. Abigail Weycker [00:01:33]: Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:35]: It is my pleasure. And I guess one of the things that I want to do first and foremost is I want to go back in time. I know that you were a undergraduate student at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point in time, you had something in your head that said to you, I want to go further. I want to go beyond the bachelor's degree, and I want to start my graduate degree while I'm an undergraduate student. So bring me back to that point and what was going through your head? Abigail Weycker [00:02:02]: Yeah, so I honestly didn't know about the joint four plus one program until I want to say, the end of my sophomore year, beginning of my junior year. And I believe it was one of our marketing assistants at the time, Audrey Banks, she had just made a flyer for it, like one of those big, gigantic flyers. You know what I'm talking about? And I was like, what is that? So I went and I talked to Tamika and Rachel, and I talked to them about what the four plus one program entails. And they told me about how you can essentially double count a few undergrad classes that are also master's level classes, and they would count towards both your undergraduate degree and your master's degree, so you can do them simultaneously. And I was like, okay, so essentially you can knock out a year worth of master's classes while also going to get your undergrad degree. So then that's why it's called four plus one. So then you only have one year of your solely, just your master's afterwards. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]: So full stop there, everyone. I'm going to talk a little bit about this because at the institution that you may be at, if you're an undergraduate student right now, one of the things to look at is, does your institution have a joint degree program? If they have a joint degree program in a program that you're interested in, it might be something to look into. Every university that has these type of programs set them up in different ways. And the way in which they are set up here at the University of Michigan Flint does allow for students to double count, meaning that you are taking graduate courses as an undergraduate student, and those credits transfer back down to complete bachelor's degree requirements, while at the same time working toward requirements for the master's degree as well. So that being said, you can, as Abigail just said, save some time, save some money potentially, and continue working toward your goal. Now, as I said, not every university has these, so it's not going to work with everybody. But it can't hurt to look into it further, especially if there are areas that you are interested in that have these type of programs that are available and you want to start early if you can identify what's there. Because if you can start taking them in your junior year, maybe or your senior year, you want to prepare yourself for that so that you are talking to academic advisors and preparing ahead of time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:22]: Now, Abigail, you decided to do a joint degree program for the mba. Talk to me about that. Why the mba, and why did you decide that that was the right graduate program for you? Abigail Weycker [00:04:34]: Yeah, so I started with the MBA because it just was the logical choice for me to go from Bachelor's to Master's of Business Administration. It just sounded right. And then again, I was talking with Tamika Shepherd. She's a graduate advisor at U of M Flint, and she had mentioned that going for my mslod because my focus for my master's in the MBA is HR and Marketing. And MSLOD is more hr, solely focused. So she mentioned that doing the MSLOD would only be four more classes. So it would only take me one extra semester because I'm taking three classes at a time, which you don't have to do. That's just how I'm doing it. Abigail Weycker [00:05:15]: So I'm going full time. So she said it would only be four extra classes. So realistically that's only one extra semester for me. Technically I'm graduating twice. I'm graduating with my MBA in April of 26 and then my MSLOD in December of 26. So I was already going summer for one extra class for my MBA anyways. So I just added two MSLOD and then went forward in the fall. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:38]: And I'm going to break down these acronyms. Mslod, Master of Science in Leadership and Organizational Dynamics. Now, what Abigail was just talking about here at the University of Michigan, Flint, we call a dual degree. Many universities, dual degrees are possible. That basically just means that you are joining two different graduate degrees together. And usually if you are combining different degrees together, there's some type of an overlap between those degrees like Abigail just said. And they don't have to always be in the same academic area. So for example, you could be studying nursing and also get an MBA because you might want to do executive leadership in nursing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:19]: So there are ways in which which you can partner different degrees together. Every institution is different and the number of credits that you can double count will be different because of that. But it's again a way for you to be able to maximize the time that you are in graduate school and be able to really focus in on those areas that you truly have an interest in as you move forward. Now, Abigail, as you were transitioning into your first graduate degree, there are definite transitions. You're going from the way in which you're educated as an undergraduate student. You were still an undergraduate student while you're taking graduate courses. And there are different expectations, there's different expectations of graduate students. Faculty are going to treat you differently, expect different things. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:06]: And you have to figure that out as you are going along. Talk to me about that transition for yourself because you have found success in this journey thus far. So as you started your graduate program, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey? Abigail Weycker [00:07:26]: Yeah, it kind of sounds cliche, but the biggest thing for me is keeping a planner. I'll mark down, I'll go through the syllabus or syllabi, the first day of the new semester, and write down all of the due dates in the planner in different colors. And then that way I can mark them off when the assignment is done. And then mentally that just makes me feel a lot better and makes me not stress out about missing something as much. So with grad school, you're going to get a lot more, I wouldn't say a lot more assignments, but you're gonna get a lot more in depth assignments. So there's gonna be more parts, there's gonna be more to it, there's gonna be longer essays. So it's gonna take more time than maybe just your typical practice of maybe doing it the day before that. It's not something that you can do in grad school anymore. Abigail Weycker [00:08:10]: And that's okay. I mean it just, it's, it's all about car. That's why I use the planner, because it's all about carving out the time that I need to successful assignments on time and to the best of my ability. And then another big strength or recommendation that I have is consistently meeting with your advisor. I know everybody tells you that and everybody tells, oh, me with your advisor regularly, blah, blah, blah. And it kind of seems a pain in the butt, but it really, really, really does help because if you end up trying to advise yourself, you could screw yourself into another semester or preparing money for a class you didn't need. And you won't know that until you get evaluated by an advisor and they're like, actually, I don't know about that. And you're like, oh, okay. Abigail Weycker [00:08:56]: And you won't know your options until you talk with an advisor either. Like, I wouldn't have known about the mslod, the joint MBA MSLOD program if Tameka hadn't mentioned it to me. So it's important to make sure that you establish that connection and keep that connection and meet with them at least once a semester. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:13]: Completely agree with you. Too often I've seen students do what you just said, which was self advisement. Especially if they're in a program that might not be cohort based and they are just looking at a catalog and saying, oh, that sounds kind of interesting. What if I took this course? Or if they see, oh, I have to take this course and maybe I'll take this or maybe I'll take this next term, not realizing that a course is only offered once every other semester. So sitting down with an advisor is definitely an important piece because you can then look at that schedule and Say, well, what makes the most sense? And you might learn something, something about a joint degree or a dual degree program. You might learn about a specific class that you really have to take this term, unless you want to have a delay. Abigail Weycker [00:09:59]: That was a big one for me, was figuring out certain classes only are offered certain semesters. And you wouldn't know that unless you know the back end or you've experienced it in the past and know to look for it. It is embedded within our websites and places. But unless you have any idea about that being an option or an issue, potential issue, you don't know to look. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:21]: So talking about some of the transitions you went through as you move into graduate school, there are mindset shifts that you do have to go through as well. Talk to me about what mindset shifts did you have to make to succeed in graduate school? Abigail Weycker [00:10:35]: I think for me really is it made me realize that I'm an adult now. These are big steps to go forward, and these are the step that are going to ensure a good future for me and a good future career for me. I think it's pretty typical now that a lot of companies want you to have your master's, especially in certain topics like education likes it and business likes it. I mean, it's not guaranteed and it's not required, obviously, but some companies like it. And so realizing that and putting myself in those shoes makes me realize that getting these two masters is going to make me more attractive to certain companies and I could be more likely to get my dream job quicker than someone else who might not have those experiences. And it's taken a lot for me to shift my thinking like that because I was like, oh, it's just another day of school. Oh, it's just another day of school. Okay, now I've got my bachelor's degree. Abigail Weycker [00:11:29]: Okay, now I'm working on my master's. Okay, now the next step after that is a job. So you basically switch from a child or kid mindset to, okay, every day I go to school now. And then you're like, oh, I'm an adult. This is for something. This means something. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:46]: So as you think about the classes that you've taken, the other students that you've interacted with, you started graduate school young. There are many people in your program that probably stepped out and came back. Maybe they were working and going to school at the same time. So they're bringing different perspectives into the classroom. Talk to me about that experience for you as someone that that was young in your graduate courses and what that experience was like for you. Abigail Weycker [00:12:12]: Yeah. So I considered doing that. And it's totally okay if you do. There's no judgment, no hate, no anything. But I just know myself and I know that for the last 13 years before I started college, all I've known was school. And then the four years of my undergrad, all I've known was school. And then I started working. So I was worried that if I stopped, had a family, had kids, got a full time job, that I would be like, oh, I'm done with school and try to come back and be like, I don't, I don't know how to get back in the groove anymore. Abigail Weycker [00:12:46]: So that, that's just how I knew personally myself. And I was like, right now is the perfect time to do it. Especially with the credits double counting, I was at an advantage. So I'm like, I need to take this advantage now. I definitely do notice that I am the youngest in most of my classes, if not all of them. It's a little bit intimidating because I feel like I don't have the workforce and day to day experience that a lot of them have. But it's nice because they end up mentoring me in a way, so they end up giving me perspectives that I may have never thought about if I wasn't in this class right now. I may have them if I went and got a career right after my bachelor's and then came back, but I didn't and I went straight into master's. Abigail Weycker [00:13:27]: So I'm straight in the learning portion, not in the real world experience portion. So having a class with those that went right into the real world world experience portion helps us to mesh together the ideas of both. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:39]: The relationships that you build between as a undergraduate student, between faculty and student is a little bit different. The relationships that typically you're building in graduate school with faculty as well. So talk to me about how you built those relationships, how it might have been different between being an undergraduate student and a graduate student for yourself in the different degrees that you're working on. Abigail Weycker [00:14:03]: But. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:04]: And what did you do to be able to build those strong relationships? Abigail Weycker [00:14:08]: The same way it's important to reach out to your advisors and connect with them. It's important to reach out to your faculty and your staff and reach out to them and keep a connection up with them. Especially being at a smaller university, at being at U of M Flint, that was one of my big draws to come here is because I was looking at Ann Arbor, I was looking at Michigan State, and those are classes of upwards of maybe 100 200, 300 people, depending. So you're just going to be another head in the classroom, which that's fine if that. But for me, I. Even in high school and stuff like that, I love the connection between me and my teachers first, not even just a first name basis, but just knowing more about them and knowing their life and then finding a connection. And then we'd end up having a conversation about something I probably would have never known about them. So that's a big thing, is reaching out and finding those connections and feeling comfortable to talk to your professors. Abigail Weycker [00:14:59]: Because if I don't understand something, I don't want to feel scared to go to them. I don't want to feel scared to try and learn a concept and say, hey, I might need another Zoom meeting about this. Hey, I might need another one on one session about this. I don't, I don't understand. So it's about being not afraid to approach them and build it further than just school. Because. Because if you build it further than just school, then you're building your network eventually for your future. And then the change from undergrad to grad. Abigail Weycker [00:15:27]: Again, this is probably going to sound cliche, but I feel like in a graduate setting, you're looked at... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39313060

Thriving in PA School: Joslynn Walsh’s Insights on Grad School Success 12/22/2025

Thriving in PA School: Joslynn Walsh’s Insights on Grad School Success Graduate school is more than just the next step in your academic journey—it’s a transformational experience that brings both challenges and opportunities. In this week’s episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, host welcomes , a first-year student in the at the , to share her real-world insights on what it truly takes to thrive as a graduate student. From the outset, Joslynn Walsh recounts her unique introduction to the PA profession during her online freshman year, amid the restrictions of the Covid-19 pandemic. She highlights how proactive research, virtual events, and community panels shaped her decision to pursue a career as a Physician Assistant. Joslynn’s experience resonates with anyone who’s had to adapt and find clarity in uncertain times. A key theme running through Joslynn’s story is the value of community. She chose UM-Flint’s PA program not just for its convenient location, but for its deep connections with the Flint community. Opportunities for service learning—like volunteering at local organizations and engaging with outreach programs—set this program apart, allowing students to make a real difference while preparing for their careers. As Joslynn notes, “It’s important to be present in your community, not just talk the talk, but walk the walk.” Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school isn’t without its challenges. Joslynn openly discusses her own hurdles, from buying a home to adjusting to her husband’s military commitments—all while starting a rigorous academic program. Her biggest takeaway? The importance of flexibility. Graduate school, especially in the medical field, demands adaptability, perseverance, and a willingness to embrace the unexpected. Impostor syndrome is another reality addressed on the podcast. For Joslynn, early experiences in simulated patient encounters and urgent care settings helped her overcome self-doubt and step confidently into her role. She emphasizes that such experiences help students get comfortable with the uncomfortable—an essential skill for any future medical provider. Finally, Joslynn offers sage advice to those considering graduate school: do your research, connect with professionals in your field, and strive for a healthy work-life balance. Above all, she reminds us that success isn’t just about academic achievement—it’s about caring for yourself and your community. Want to hear more about the journey, the challenges, and the victories? Listen to this episode of “Victors in Grad School” and be inspired to make your own mark in graduate school and beyond. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have this opportunity every week to talk, to be able to help you in finding that success that you want and in this journey that you're on. And it is a journey because each person goes through a different process that you have to go through to be able to figure out for yourself what do you have to do to be able to not only apply, get accepted, but then once you transition into a graduate school, what do you have to do to be successful? And every week, I love being able to introduce you to different people with different experiences that can give you some perspective on that and what they've learned from along the way. And today we got another great guest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]: Joslynn Walsh is with us today. And Joslynn is a first year student in the physician assistant program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I am really excited to be able to talk to her about her own journey and what she's learned thus far. And she's currently in the program, so she's still learning and it's definitely not something that is done. She's going to continue to learn. Joslynn Walsh [00:01:24]: So. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]: So I'm really excited to introduce her to you and to have her on the show today. Joslynn, thanks so much for being here. Joslynn Walsh [00:01:31]: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be able to chat. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:34]: Well, I'm excited to have you here as well, to be able to learn from your experiences. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point in you getting that undergraduate degree, you made a choice, you made a choice that you wanted to continue your education to become a physician assistant. Take me back to that point where you decided that that was the route and what was going through your head. Joslynn Walsh [00:02:00]: Well, it kind of was an idea that started maybe freshman year. My freshman year looked a little different than most because it was online due to Covid restrictions. So I would say that my freshman year was kind of unique and was very situational, obviously like one of a kind scenario. And unfortunately it kind of closed off a lot of options as far as being able to investigate campuses. So I just think I had to do a lot of research on my own and that included shadowing and trying to do internships, but those weren't available due to Covid. So there was a online event. It was not really a job career event, but I think it was geared more towards like pre med students. And we had a few guest speakers and community members come in to speak on health careers and health professions. Joslynn Walsh [00:02:57]: So there was nursing from local facilities. I think there was a few that came from Hurley and McLaren and they came to talk on what the nursing model is. And then there was a couple of nurse practitioners who had taken the extra step and we got to hear from both of those professions. And then there was an MD who I believe specialized in nephrology. So got to hear his experience going all the way through a doctoral program. And then there was a PA and it was really cool because it was like a panel. You got to hear the difference between each of the. And when somebody is making a decision on what to be, it's not only hard to come to the decision to pick medical, but what in the medical career. Joslynn Walsh [00:03:43]: So that educational panel was really where it all started. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:47]: Now you decided to attend the University of Michigan Flint for your physician assistant program. And there's a number of different physician assistant programs, not only in the state of Michigan, but beyond that. So talk to me about that decision making process for yourself and what was going through your head as you were going through that and what made you ultimately decide to attend U of M Flint? Joslynn Walsh [00:04:09]: Probably the community. I do think the Flint community has a lot to offer. It's not just location and it's convenient access to where I live, but it's more than that. It's the farmer's market, it's the hospitals, it's the community service with like so many outreaches nearby. There's the Michigan Food bank. So close, I mean, you name it. There's so many facilities that are in need. And that's something that's always really appealed to me. Joslynn Walsh [00:04:37]: And our program specifically is fortunate enough to participate with a lot of these outreach facilities where our students are enrolled in giving back to the community. And not a lot of PA programs offer such an opportunity for service learning. Maybe they'll do like a cohort day. Well, they'll go do like a field trip and go spend XYZ hours sorting food together. And it's made two hour event. Our program does. So our students are participants in multiple programs in the community all year. And I think that's something that's important to me having been a volunteer advocate throughout high school and undergrad and continuing that community participant. Joslynn Walsh [00:05:20]: And I think it's so important as future medical providers to understand the community you're working in, understand your population, not just like their needs, but also to be present in the community yourself. So it's one thing to talk, but it's another thing to walk the walk. And I think as future medical providers, whether it's nursing or all the way up to an md, like, it's important to be present in your community. And I think our program does a fantastic job of reinforcing that and actually showing the effort that comes from that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]: Well, I appreciate you sharing that. And I know that every student that goes through a process of getting accepted into a graduate program, as you enter into that graduate program, there is a process of transition, because the way that you're educated as an undergraduate student is very different than the way that you're being educated as a graduate student. So as you think about this transition that you've gone through over the last year, in stepping into the graduate program at the University of Michigan, Flint, you found success and you've been able to be successful. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the journey that you've been on thus far? Joslynn Walsh [00:06:32]: I definitely think it's hard to think about your successes without thinking about your trials and tribulations. So my program started January 2025. So not a quite full year yet, but almost there. And January. It was an interesting start date because I feel like most programs start in the fall and it's kind of all coordinated at the same time. But having that winter start date was already a little odd. And then I bought a house in January that was quite difficult. My timing was not my best. Joslynn Walsh [00:07:00]: I' but that's just how things go. I do think that it was a learning curve with the adjustment of responsibility. My husband serves in the Army National Guard, and he was currently on his officer training status during that time. So I didn't have my support system. So having the newfound, I guess, learning curve of graduate school life and making that adjustment, buying a house, not having that support system, he was floundering in January. It was hard to transition for me, particularly my experience, not to say that that's the experience my colleagues share. I do think it encouraged me to be flexible, which is so important as you navigate that transition time between undergraduate learning is being flexible. And I think that has been my biggest takeaway in not being able to control everything and being able to take that step back. Joslynn Walsh [00:07:53]: And which honestly saying that out loud because Is that not the perfect estimate in the medical field? Being able to be flexible when a thrown at you? It's unusual to being able to provide good patient care, being able to make decisions on the fly. I do think that it opened my eyes. I am ready for this. While it didn't feel like that maybe occurring during the experience, looking back on it, I'm very proud of myself for being able to persevere through those hard circumstances. But flexibility is just crucial in graduate school and making that transition as you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:28]: Entered into a program that is rigorous. Because I know that the physicians assistant program is definitely rigorous. It challenges you in many different ways. And I know that a lot of students that would go through that type of situation may feel a sense of imposter syndrome or self doubt in regard to am I ready for this? Am I good enough? Am I good enough to be here? Talk to me about that. And did you have any point in the last year where that has crept in and how did you handle it? Joslynn Walsh [00:08:57]: So our program, I do think it's a standard that most doctoral programs and PA programs will conduct some, some type of standardized patient simulation, like a standardized patient experience where you have actors who are presented with some type of case and you act out your role, whether that is a PA or a nurse or whatever that position might look like. So I do think that that's pretty standard across all programs. So having that opportunity to it be no risk, you're it's an actor, it is a pretend situation. Getting that opportunity to make those mistakes with no risk is honestly the big opportunity to be able to watch those errors back and see how you would do it differently. But not only that, to actually put the white coat on and to be the one knocking on the door. And it's something so simple that you don't think about whether your experience prior to this was being a medical assistant, whether it was scribing in a doctor's office. We're not the ones coming in all dressed up, knocking on the door, making those introductions, those formal introductions, I'm here to see you today. And those minute things that you don't think about going into school definitely can invoke the imposter syndrome, I think. Joslynn Walsh [00:10:12]: And we get to practice those scenarios, we get to in real time pretend to be the provider. And right now I need to stop using the word pretend because in five short months that I'm going into clinical rotations and I might be the only provider they're seeing in real time. So I practice this almost every time I go to the simulated patient experience, but also our program on something I'm very passionate about and very excited that our PA program does is Clinical Emergence. And our students are participants in Urgent Cares and around the community, the Flint community, a few other local areas. And these Urgent Cares have preceptors who allow us to come in as students and to see patients under the supervision of the urgent care provider. So as a student, having not gone to clinicals yet, I think it's once or twice a month we have the opportunity to go to Urgent Cares and to see patients on our own and then go back in the room with our preceptor. And having those experiences, experiences early on, I think gives me that edge and being able to get over that imposter syndrome a little early on before I get to clinicals. And it's the real deal. Joslynn Walsh [00:11:21]: I continuously, every time I go, I'm wearing my white coat, I'm knocking on the door, I'm introducing myself as a student and that has helped me tremendously assume my position and assume my role and kind of get over that fear. But I think with any medical provider, it's always going to be there in the back of your head. It's always going to be there saying, oh man, this is an emergency situation, I need to go get help. Nope, I am the help. They are here to see me. And you need to almost get over it. And it's blunt, it's hard, it's hard. But you are, you are their last line defense in sometimes, in some cases, sometimes. Joslynn Walsh [00:11:55]: We don't always have a huge medical team and a huge resourceful hospital. Sometimes you're the only provider in a rural medicine office and you are their doctor, for lack of a better term. So I'm very proud of my program for putting us in those positions early. Get over the awkwardness, get over the fear and be able to come out stronger. It's huge. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:16]: You know, as you think about the transition that you went into graduate school, what you've learned thus far, and you think back to before you started, what's something you wish someone had told you before you started graduate school? Joslynn Walsh [00:12:30]: It's hard to think before this started, honestly, like, that's so cheesy, but honestly, this feels like it's gone on forever and I've only ever been in PA school. Was there ever a time before PA school? I don't know, I can't even think that far. But jokes aside, I, I do, I wish I had more opportunity to spend more hands on time with PAs, with COVID and some of those shadowing and turning restrictions, I didn't get to do that as much as I wanted. So I got to do some like over the phone, like interviews and questioning people who were already practicing, which was helpful. But it's totally different being in the clinic and seeing things hand on and in real time. And I wish I would have had that opportunity. To be honest, before my program timing was against me. I do feel like when I was applying and going through the process, but I think if I were to go on, I mean now I'm a cohort mentor. Joslynn Walsh [00:13:22]: So for the upcoming cohort of class of 2028, now we got assigned our mentees and being able to assume that position and being able to maybe instill some advice going on. I do think that having a work life balance is crucial. You can't be in your books 24 7. It's not healthy, it's not maintainable. You want to be a good student, you want to be able to pursue your endeavors and have those hobbies. But to balance it. And you need to find something that works for you, whether it's making a schedule or setting aside specific time for activities or for studying. Setting yourself up for success in that capacity of work life balance, whatever it looks like for you, is huge. Joslynn Walsh [00:14:05]: And I know a lot of speakers have touched on that in the past on the podcast. And it's not wrong and it must not be wrong because people keep encouraging it and reinforcing it. And it's very true. Grad students need to have a retreat, a form of self care, and you need to attend your studies. There's no way around it. There really isn't. You have to find something that is balanced and will get you where you need to be. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:30]: I know you just gave a piece of advice, but I want to leave one more opportunity that if you were thinking about a student that was thinking about graduate school, whether whether it be physician assistant or any other field, what's one piece of advice that you'd want to give to to every student? Joslynn Walsh [00:14:49]: I think if it's regardless of it being medical, regardless of the background, I would say I think it's important to consider whether or not it's necessary. And what I mean by that is I would talk to people who are already in the field and really get the nitty gritty because some people have been extremely successful in respective fields having no master's degree. So it looks different with every profession. So I do think it would be important to have those conversations with people who are already working, who have had successful careers in the career you are desiring because there's nothing more concrete evidence than people who are currently doing the job you want. So in understanding that fields and careers change over time, so maybe requirements that weren't needed 10 years ago maybe are needed now. Maybe there are recruitment officers who are seeing a huge change in degrees and maybe populations saying everybody who we've hired in the last year had a four year degree and went on to get a master's. And maybe the fact of the matter is that's what's needed now for that job. So I think it's one thing to look things up and try to do your own research and it's a whole other thing to talk to people who are currently doing that job. Joslynn Walsh [00:16:06]: So I know that sounds all very vague, but it's, it is sometimes vague. You need to hear it from the horse's mouth sometimes and know what you're getting into. So having those conversations with recruiters, going to job fairs is super important, especially if you are in more mathematics, a STEM field that's a field that's ever changing technology and advancement. So knowing what the most up to date information is super helpful. So I think talking to people who know what they're talking about is definitely helpful for sure.... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39312955

From History Major to Management Professor: Dr. Greg Laurence’s Grad School Journey 12/15/2025

From History Major to Management Professor: Dr. Greg Laurence’s Grad School Journey Are you contemplating graduate school or already embarking on the journey? The latest episode of "Victors in Grad School" provides a wealth of inspiration and practical wisdom for anyone at any stage of their graduate education. Hosted by , this insightful conversation with , a seasoned professor of management at the University of Michigan-Flint, explores the twists and turns of building a career through graduate studies. Dr. Greg Laurence offers a candid and relatable account of his own path—from earning a bachelor’s degree in history, to teaching English in Japan, and ultimately finding his way into a management MBA and an international relations master’s degree at Syracuse University. His story is marked by openness to change, reflection, and an emphasis on following your curiosity. He explains that the decision to pursue an MBA was driven by a desire to gain vocabulary and foundational knowledge in business, especially after experiencing the necessity for versatile skills while working abroad. A key theme throughout the episode is the reality of transitions. Whether moving from undergraduate studies to the workforce, or shifting from professional roles back into academia, Dr. Greg Laurence discusses how these moments can feel daunting but are ultimately rewarding. From battling imposter syndrome to adjusting study habits that change with age, he insists that success is about finding your footing, developing effective routines, and embracing the challenges inherent in graduate programs. The podcast doesn’t just recount personal experiences; it’s full of actionable advice for prospective and current students. Dr. Greg Laurence shares strategies for building self-belief (“You belong in this context”), leveraging diverse backgrounds for fresh perspectives, and not being afraid to voice ideas that may seem unconventional. Graduate school, he says, should challenge assumptions and push students to grapple with difficult questions in a supportive environment—without fear of costly mistakes. "Victors in Grad School" is more than just a resource; it’s a community for those on the graduate education journey. If you’re on the fence about diving into grad school or looking for practical strategies to thrive, this episode is sure to resonate. Listen to hear not just the ‘how,’ but also the ‘why’ behind the transitions that shape successful careers—and discover the confidence to take the next step in your own academic journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, I love being on this journey with you, this journey that you're on, to be able to move toward graduate school. And you might be at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about, do I want to do this graduate degree? Or maybe you've applied, maybe you've been accepted, maybe you're getting ready to start, maybe you're in graduate school, doesn't matter. But you are on a journey, and this podcast is here to help, because every week, I love being able to help you, give you some tools for your toolbox to help you prepare to be successful in this journey that. That you're on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:55]: That's why every week I bring you different guests with different experiences that can give you some different opportunities to be able to learn and grow from their own experiences. Today we got another great guest. Dr. Greg Lawrence is with us today, and Dr. Lawrence is a professor of management at the University of Michigan, Flint, and he's been here for a little over 15 years, and he's had his own graduate school journey. He started in Ohio and went from there to Syracuse, and we'll talk about all of that. So I'm really excited to have him here today to talk. Talk about his own journey and to share that with you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:30]: Dr. Lawrence, thanks so much for being here. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:01:31]: Thanks for inviting me. It's a good opportunity to reach out to prospective and current students and give them a, maybe a different kind of a sense of who a professor is and how in the world some of us got into doing this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: Well, I want to take you back in time because I know, as I mentioned, you did your undergraduate degree at Ohio University, and you did that in history. And not everybody would expect that a person that got a bachelor's degree in history would go on to be a professor. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:02:00]: Not. Not everyone, including me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:03]: So I guess I want to hear more of this story. So take me back to that point. So you did your undergraduate degree, like I said, at Ohio University, got that bachelor's degree in history, and then you had a little bit of a break where you had got some experience, did some different things, and at some point, you made a decision that you wanted to continue your education, and you chose to do an MBA So bring me back to that point. What was going through your head and what made you decide that that was the right time to make that switch and make that jump into graduating? Dr. Greg Laurence [00:02:35]: So it probably isn't the simplest answer. After undergrad, maybe, like a lot of people, I was a little bit lost about what I wanted to do. And I had gone into undergrad thinking for sure that I would go on to grad school in history. And I really got burned out as an undergrad and didn't feel like I was ready to do that at that point in life. And I had a job. I was working in a paint store, of all places. And that company, they actually approached me about joining their management training program. And going down that route is a fairly accelerated thing where you went through different rotations in different parts of the business. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:03:13]: And they were really sort of aiming for people who would end up as, like, district managers and continue on up the chain. And I knew pretty quickly that I was not all that interested in paint, and that that was not going to be a fit for me. And I remember I saw an ad in a. In a newspaper, said, do you want to work in Asia? Buy our book for 1995, and if you don't have a job within 90 days, we'll refund your money. And I thought, okay, well, try that. And that led to teaching English in Japan. I applied for a job within maybe two or three weeks of having that book, and within two months that I had a visa and was in Japan working. And I taught English there for six years. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:03:54]: I thought it would be one or two, and one or two became six. And really at the end of the fifth year is when I made this decision. So I was working at a high school, and I had this conversation with the principal about performance, as you do. You know, he was saying, oh, yeah, we're super excited. You're doing such a great job. We really love the work you're doing with the students. We want to keep you here, but we can't give you a raise. And there I was, frankly, I was at the end. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:04:17]: I had worked for a company teaching English for four years, and then I wanted to teach high school in junior high. So I left the company to go teach high school. When I did that, I took a pretty big pay cut, which was offset by free rent and some other things that the school had that ended up meaning I was making or what I had made when I left the company. But at that point, I was like, wait a minute. I don't think I can do this. As a long term career. And frankly I was not at all sure what I wanted to do. The goal was to be able to do anything in Japan that was not, not teaching English. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:04:49]: And as I thought about that, I thought working for the company where I had worked, we had been involved in the business. So we had monthly meetings about profit and loss at our branch school and how were we going to increase revenue, what were the different ways that we could increase revenue. And we had done some things but I had never really understood fundamentally what it was that made businesses tick. And it seemed to me as though if I was going to make this move from teaching into some non teaching field that having some training would be a good idea. And I mean, I think there are those who would say the heck with that, just find an entry level job, you can sell your transferable skills to somebody and you'd be able to find an entry level job. But I'm sort of more. I liked the idea of having some vocabulary and some sense of the way that people around me were going to be thinking. And that is really what led to the decision to get an mba. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:05:42]: And I was in Japan when I did all the applications. So I was geographically untethered from really I could have gone anywhere, anywhere in the US and ended up choosing Syracuse for a variety of reasons. One was the financial aid package, but another was the opportunity there to do a concurrent master's in international relations at the same time that I did the MBA and at the Maxwell School at Syracuse is a pretty well regarded school. So I was like, well that's a really cool combination that gives me the functional thinking around business, but then also satisfies some interests that I had connected back to history in an interest, interesting way. And it ended up turning out that that combination of things was really instrumental in terms of finding a job afterwards. Really fundamentally the reason the decision was based on. I was at a point in my life where I felt like I needed to make a left turn or right turn, whichever one you call it. But I wasn't going straight on from that point. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:06:42]: And that was the degree that I felt was going to open as many doors as possible and to make those ideas around. I don't know what industry I want to be in. I don't really know functional area of business I want to be in yet. But if I study them all, maybe that'll help me find a direction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]: Now you found your direction because you went in, you went through that master's degree and you ended up going from there and you ended up Deciding to continue your education into a PhD? Dr. Greg Laurence [00:07:12]: Yeah, but not right away. So I did. Yeah, I did. I finished my MBA in 2003. The last semester of my MA I did at Waseda University in Tokyo while I had an internship at afs. I don't know if you're familiar with them. American Field Service to do foreign exchange programs for high school students. And I had been an exchange student in one of their programs when I was in high school. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:07:35]: So when I arrived in Tokyo, I sent a letter to their Tokyo office and said, hey, here I am. I speak Japanese pretty well, can I come and work in the office? And they said, sure, we'll give you something to do. So so I did that and until I was done with degree and then found a job for a development consulting company in Tokyo that was doing World Bank, Asian Development bank, those kind of big international financial institution consulting projects all over the world, I suppose mostly in Southeast Asia, but really in, you know, the former Soviet bloc. Lots of interesting places. And I worked in business development for them for two years and then transitioned over to. Transitioned from them over to the American Chamber of Commerce in Japan where I was the membership manager. Now that was a cool job. Actually both of those jobs were pretty cool. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:08:28]: But one thing that I discovered about myself was that I get bored pretty easily. And six months into each of those jobs I was like, oh my gosh, give me something different to do and something more meaty to chew on. And those contexts didn't allow for that. And I had had three professors during the MBA program, I think independ, but who knows, maybe they were talking to each other. They had suggested while I was in the MBA program, hey, have you ever thought about getting a PhD in management? And of course my answer was no. Who has? Conceptually I understood that the professors had PhDs in something, but what it was I didn't know. And that sort of earbud, I guess you'd call it, came back to me as I was sitting at work fairly bored. And so I got back in touch with one of those professors and I said, hey, can you tell me more about this? And he sent me a stack of peer reviewed journal articles to read and you know, said, read these and if, if you're still interested you can get back to me. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:09:30]: It was that realization that. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:09:34]: The sort of the intellectual stimulation. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:09:39]: I just hadn't. Maybe I, you know, there are probably places to work where one would get it, but I hadn't found them. And that's what really led me back to. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:09:48]: Thinking that a PhD at more graduate school was the right direction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:52]: Now, with both the master's and the doctorate degrees, there are transitions, just like going from an undergraduate to a graduate degree. There's transitions in the way that you learn, the way that you're what you're expected to do, the all of those pieces. And you made transitions from your undergrad to work, from work, to school, from school, back to work, from work, back to school. You made a number of transitions in your journey. As you think about the transition transitions that you made in your master's, in your doctorate degree, and you think about what you had to do in those transitions, what did you have to do in those transitions, both at the front end when you were transitioning into graduate school to be able to find success, but what did you have to also do to maintain that success throughout the entire journey? Dr. Greg Laurence [00:10:41]: So I think for sure, for the first one into the MBA program, that that was challenging because I didn't have, or I didn't think I had the sort of stereotypical, prototypical business background. Being a history major and then having taught English for six years, certainly I was worried about whether I would fit with the classmates in my cohort and whatnot who were coming from what I would have considered to be more traditional business backgrounds. And so there was some length of time during which I had to, you know, it was about establishing to myself that I belonged in that context. And, you know, I studied my butt off, frankly, for the first eight weeks or so of the first semester. I mean, until that first midterm came around, and it was an accounting midterm. And I was like, I cannot afford for this to go badly, so I need to nail this thing. When the grade came back from that, I was like, oh, okay, well, this may not be. This may not be so bad. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:11:43]: And that gave me a lot of confidence to then transition into, I guess, at that point, like a role that I really fit naturally. Right. All of a sudden, I had classmates coming to me for help on accounting and finance and supply chain homework, which, if you would ask anyone I know prior to me starting my MBA program, like, do you think people will come to Greg with questions and for help on quantitative things? They would have been like, you're out of your mind. Of course not. But I just found that it was a much better fit for the way that I think than I thought it was going to be. And I transitioned into that really well. I found that my background, you know, ended up being really valued in the classroom by classmates and by faculty. And I tell this to students. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:12:28]: I just had a conversation the other day, in fact, with one of this, one of our students who's in the MBA program, who is an educator, and she was expressing some worry about fit and whether she was in the right place and what was she going to be able to do post. And I said, look, we think that those kinds of different experiences that people have are really valuable. And you're working in an organization, you're working with people, you have the same kinds of interpersonal conflicts that everybody else has. Don't let anyone tell you that working in a school is not working in the real world. It's very real. And that once you realize that, okay, somebody, person X who works for engineering firm or a person Y who works for an insurance firm, they don't necessarily have a leg up on you in your area if you're coming at it from a different angle, because that different angle is by itself of value. So I think that was the big transition from sort of that first work experience into the MBA program. The transition into the PhD program was probably more difficult. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:13:32]: First, I was what, seven years older and my brain was seven years less sponge, like it was more like pouring water onto a brick. And some of it seeps in, but not very much. Like that's how it kind of felt when I started. And the intentionality of having to study really truly full time, 55 hours a week to make a dent in my understanding of the field that I was in was a real challenge. The first semester of the PhD program was much, much rougher of a transition than had been the first semester of the mba. But I mean, I think like, just as with the mba, it was about finding footing and figuring out your routine and figuring what kinds of study approaches work for you, like your body, your brain, everything about you is different at 30 than it was at 20. And so the, the same rules no longer apply. And you have to feel, feel things out a little bit there at the beginning to sort of understand, do you need him? I see young people all the time seem to be totally fine with studying in a coffee shop and with that noise and whatnot. Dr. Greg Laurence [00:14:37]: Or I could not. There's no way I could do that when I was 35, and no way that I would have had to be. I found myself needing to be in with noise, noise canceling, headphones on and completely isolated from everything to be able to concentrate on reading or whatever I was doing. So I think it's about finding your routine and finding, finding, you know, what works for you and how to how to balance your work in your life. You can study 100 hours a week if you want to. You probably shouldn't, I think. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:07]: Yep, definitely understand that. And there is that balance that you have to find for yourself. And it's the notion, always easy, I guess, as you think about your own graduate school experience and you think about the experiences that you've had working with graduate students. Now you mentioned talking to a graduate student just recently about that I'm going to say imposter syndrome of am I really good enough to be here? Am I smart enough? Am I, you know, all of those things, those am I questions that come up as you think about students that are thinking about graduate school today, whether it be an MBA or some other pieces. What are some tips that you might offer them as they are considering graduate school that would help them find success sooner? Dr. Greg Laurence [00:15:56]: I mean, it's easy to say, but like, don't worry about that stuff. I think relatively few people make a decision to go to graduate school lightly. I mean, I think relatively few people wake up one day and say, I think I'm going to devote the next three years of my life to going to grad school. I think most people have put some thought into it and most people have investigated the content of the degree that they want to pursue. What's the curriculum going to look... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39311380

From Veterinary Dreams to PT School: Olivia Warrington’s Academic Pivot 12/08/2025

From Veterinary Dreams to PT School: Olivia Warrington’s Academic Pivot Are you considering graduate school or currently navigating your own academic path? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School” shines a light on what it really takes to thrive—both academically and personally—through the honest, inspiring journey of Olivia Warrington, a second-year physical therapy student at the University of Michigan, Flint. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the episode opens by setting the stage for listeners at any point in their graduate school journey. Whether you’re just thinking about applying, already accepted, or deep into your studies, this podcast is designed to offer practical tips and relatable stories from students and experts who have been there before. Olivia Warrington shares her winding road from an initial pursuit of veterinary medicine to discovering her passion for physical therapy—thanks in part to a serendipitous conversation with a peer. Her experience is a powerful reminder that sometimes, the most impactful decisions can stem from the simplest moments. A major theme discussed in the episode is the need for self-discovery and adaptability. Olivia Warrington reflects on her transition from undergraduate studies, where she admits to “skating by,” to finding success in graduate school through refined study habits and intentional learning. She candidly discusses her process of trial and error, emphasizing that what works for others may not work for you—and that’s okay. Her advice? Develop effective study strategies early and continually refine them as you go. The importance of balance comes up repeatedly. Olivia Warrington talks about the challenge of not letting academic demands eclipse family and personal life, recounting how she learned to say yes to life outside of school without sacrificing her grades. Her journey underscores that holistic success in graduate school means making intentional time for both education and cherished relationships. Another highlight is Olivia Warrington’s emphasis on building a supportive community. She gives credit to her peer group for providing not only academic support but also critical emotional encouragement. Find people who align with your values and study approach, she suggests, as these relationships can carry you through the toughest moments. To anyone considering graduate school, she offers words of encouragement: have confidence in yourself, explore all opportunities, and don’t be afraid to ask questions. Your educational path may have unexpected twists, but with the right mindset and support, success is within reach. Tune in to this episode for honest insights, motivation, and the assurance that you’re not alone on your journey to becoming a victor in grad school. Listen now! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it truly is. As you are thinking about graduate school, you may be at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:31]: You may have already applied, maybe you got accepted, maybe you've started graduate school. No matter where you are on this continuum, you're on a journey. You're on a journey toward meeting the goals that you've set for yourself. And this podcast is here to be able to help you in that journey. I love being able to have an opportunity every week to sit down with you, to talk to you, to provide you some hints, some tips, some things that you can use to be able to find success in your own journey sooner. That's why every week I bring you different people, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to think about things in different ways and allow for you to learn from what they've learned in their own educational journey. This week we got another great guest. Olivia Warrington is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: And Olivia is a second year physical therapy student at the University of Michigan, Flint. And she's had her own educational journey that led her to being here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm excited to be able to talk to her, to learn from her, and to share that with you. Olivia, thanks so much for being here today. Olivia Warrington [00:01:36]: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. Super excited to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here today and I want to take you back in time because I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Detroit Mercy, and. And at some point in that educational journey, whether it was right there at UD Mercy or sometime before that, or sometime in between, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to continue your education. You wanted to become a physical therapist. Bring me back to that point and what was going through your head as you were making that choice for yourself of wanting to continue that education. Olivia Warrington [00:02:13]: I always knew from a young age that I was going to do more school after high school and I was probably gonna have to do more school after. I was probably gonna do some kind of GR program, my childhood dream. And up until my junior year, I was heavily committed to veterinary medicine. And I started that journey. And I got there and I went through. I was still a biology major at that time, so going into my third year, I took five years to do undergrad. And I. I was like, ah, this just doesn't feel right. Olivia Warrington [00:02:45]: This doesn't feel right. I was talking to some kid on the soccer team, and he was like, I'm gonna do physical therapy. I'm like, what is that? What does that entail? So I into it. And I was like, you know what? This sounds like something I could do. This sounds like, you know, I'll just. I'll give it a shot. I'll go shadow. And. Olivia Warrington [00:03:02]: And I loved it. And it's not a super glamorous story by any means. It's just some kid telling me what he was doing. And I. I was like, yeah, I mean, if you're doing it, maybe I'll like it too. And then I stuck with it. And I love it. And I'm so glad that that person told me that he was going to do physical therapy. Olivia Warrington [00:03:17]: That was about it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:18]: So every person goes through a journey after they make that decision to try to figure out, where do I want to go. You got into that fifth year, and you're starting to think about, okay, where am I going to go? What do I need to do? What kind of things do I need to think about? You ultimately decided to attend the University of Michigan Flint. Talk to me about that process for yourself and what ultimately made you decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right school for you. Olivia Warrington [00:03:46]: Yeah, overall, I was really looking for something to be close to home. Something I could commute and still live at home, save a bit of money, but if I had to stretch, I would. But. So I applied to all the schools in. In Michigan. I. I heard that physical therapy was really competitive. And so I was just like, you know what? I'm just gonna. Olivia Warrington [00:04:03]: I'm gonna apply to everything, and hopefully I land somewhere. And fortunately enough, I actually got into quite a few schools, and I applied to nine, and I got into eight out of the nine. And I was. I was like, whoa. I did not expect that to happen. And I. Michigan and Oakland, Wayne State are kind of like the three commutable schools around me. And U of M Flint does a ton of community outreach, and I love that they can make this huge impact on mostly the neurological patients in. Olivia Warrington [00:04:37]: In Flint with their pro bono clinic and all the exercise classes. I'm sure that Oakland and Wayne State also do those things as well. But I really liked going northbound on 75 instead of southbound. So it seemed like a great fit going and talking to the professors and whatnot. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:52]: Every student that chooses to go to graduate school has to go through a transition. You have to go through transition relearning how to learn in many different ways. Because you're educated in one way as an undergraduate student, you go to graduate school and there's different expectations from your faculty members. So talk to me about that transition for yourself. As you transitioned in and through your first year into your second year of physical therapy school, you found success. So what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your life, your graduate school journey thus far? Olivia Warrington [00:05:30]: So, a little background on my undergrad. I. I wasn't a super great student. I. I really struggled. I had a really hard time finding what worked for me. And I just kind of like skated by and eventually it all clicked and it came together and it was good, but I never had any, like, true structure to my studying or to the people I surrounded myself with. And I, I just kind of, I just did it and then I ended up here. Olivia Warrington [00:05:54]: And then in grad school, I had to really figure out. It kind of, it happened. So outcomes and you just have to pick it up and you have to study and you have to do it. So I had to find a great way to study and what personally worked for me because I was looking at other people and I was like, oh, that works for you and you're doing really good. That should work for me too. And that wasn't always the case. So I had to really quickly trial and error, all these different study habits. I found that in my first semester, but I really worked hard in developing those study habits. Olivia Warrington [00:06:24]: And then it more fell into place second semester. And then by the third semester, I was like, this is it. This is how I'm going to study. This is what works for me. And then I was able to refine it from there, and it just works now. And now I'm doing good. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:36]: So talk to me about what did you have to do to be able to find that vibe for yourself? We'll say the mojo that you had to figure out for yourself to be able to get yourself on that right path. Were there specific things that you had to do was a trial and error? Was it something else that really helped you get to that point where you figured out, this is the right place for me? Olivia Warrington [00:06:57]: Yeah, yeah. So what I personally had to do was I. I Didn't know what I could do minimally to maximize my time. So essentially just overstudied. I overstudied for everything and I put a ton of time. I'm, I'm very surprised that I wasn't burnt out after my first semester, but I, after that I was like, something's gotta change before I do hit that burnout. So I picked out the good things and then I held onto those and then I slowly trialed out little things, just keeping the core, that core one good thing, and then added some, some others as I went. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:34]: I share, I appreciate you sharing that. Now you're in your second year and there are definitely things that you had to do as you went along that helped you to become the professional that you are becoming. And I'm sure that there may have been points along the way where that imposter syndrome snuck in. Talk to me about that and what did you have to do to handle that? Olivia Warrington [00:07:57]: So with the imposter syndrome, I don't think it's hit me so much yet. I am just starting my first big clinical rotation, so I'm just starting to feel like I'm like, do I even really know things? Which I'm starting to come around to find out that I do. I'm only on day two, so we'll. I'm still trying to prove to myself, but handling it, I'm still trying to figure out what is working best for me. But so far it's just been making sure I feel over prepared for my clinical rotations. Like when the day, night before or even two weeks prior, I was, I was really like freshening up on my skills and I guess throughout the program when I have had those inklings of imposter syndrome, I have, I've just really dug into my work and really made sure that I feel overprepared for specific situations. But in the long run, I'm still, I'm still really trying to figure that part out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:48]: So as you've been going through graduate school, there's a lot of times that, where you have to balance things and all of us wear different hats, we have different people vying for our attention, we have different things vying for our attention. And physical therapy as a educational area is a demanding field. It takes a lot of your time and requires a lot of you. So talk to me about balance and how did you find balance within your education in the sense of your schooling, but also balance in work and family and personal responsibilities that you had to maintain throughout graduate school? Olivia Warrington [00:09:26]: This is a great Point and something that I really had a hard time navigating at the beginning. My first semester, it was just. I thought that I only could do school. I only said yes to school. And then it became very easy for me to just say yes to school and say no to everything else. So I. School just became my default. And I started missing out on things. Olivia Warrington [00:09:46]: I started missing out on family events and I have little brothers, and so I. I started missing out on some of their big things. And I really hit a point where I was like, I really need to start prioritizing my time a little differently. I was doing really good my first semester and I was like, what can I. What can I cut to make it a little bit more of a work life balance type deal? So I just committed to saying yes to one thing. One thing. A week was my start. And so I started saying yes. Olivia Warrington [00:10:20]: And I would go, I'd still do work that day or whatever in the morning, but. And then I. I saw the end result at the end of that second semester and I was like, oh, I did about the same. I did the same. So I'm still doing really well. I'm saying yes to family things. And then the next semester, I started saying yes to a couple more things. Just not extending myself over my limit, but still allowing myself to be immersed in my family and be a part of my little brother's life. Olivia Warrington [00:10:48]: And my friends missed me so much and, and still did about the same. And so just a little bit of fluctuation, but I was still getting more family enrichment type deal. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:58]: So as you're thinking about the experience that you've had thus far in your experience in graduate school. And I know that the experience going through graduate school, especially within physical therapy, is a collaborative one in regard to the cohort that you are a part of and that you're with as you go through that experience and that it's important to have those systems of support for yourself throughout the graduate school experience. Talk to me about the relationships that you've been able to build with faculty or peers or students and how that has been able to help you in the journey that you've been on thus far. Olivia Warrington [00:11:39]: Yeah, this one's also really important, in my opinion. At the beginning of grad school, we're all just individuals trying to find our way and trying to find our group. And then you start to slowly see everyone coagulate and you've got these groups. And I just. A couple of girls sought me out and they asked if I wanted to be a part of Their group chat and it just happened to work out so beautifully. The universe really aligned for me that day when I was asked to be. Kind of seemed like they're asking me to be their friend a little bit. And it was, it was very sweet. Olivia Warrington [00:12:12]: And it just so happened that we had very similar study habits and just very a lot of things in common. How we view school, our excitement for learning and so finding that group that really fits what you, how you view school, how you view studying, how you view your career is very important. And I noticed that each of our little groups in the cohort are so vastly different in how we study and what we have in common and all these things. All very great individuals. But these groups, they fit together so beautifully and everyone succeeds in their own way. But with each other and having my friend group, I give them a ton of credit. I don't think I really would have made it this far without them and without their support. But we lean on each other so heavily and making sure that if it isn't really a great fit, we can always find another friend or at least someone to rely heavily on study wise. Olivia Warrington [00:13:11]: But I really rely heavily on them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:13]: You know, another thing that comes to mind is that as you think back to your education, you think back to the transition into to physical therapy school and you think back to who you were before that. What's something you wish someone had told you before you started graduate school? Olivia Warrington [00:13:32]: I wish someone told me to have confidence. I know that's a simple one. I feel like a lot of people say that. But the confidence factor in my ability and my ability to study and my ability to potentially treat patients one day and to make a great impact in the community. I wish that was hammered, hammered in sooner. Sooner. It would have saved me some trouble in this last year. But yeah, I think that one's simple and sweet confidence. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:00]: And finally, as you think back to your own experience thus far and I know it's still going, but you think about other students that are thinking about graduate school, whether it be going to become a physical therapist or something completely different. What advice would you give to that individual that was thinking about graduate school that would help them find success sooner. Olivia Warrington [00:14:22]: Smaller level study wise. I would find your way of studying in undergrad find that out sooner while you have room for more mistake. It will definitely save a lot of, a lot of hassle your first couple semesters if you have that lockdown sooner rather than later. But also to go and try everything. Go and shadow. Go, go ask as many questions as you can. I wish I. I wish that I. Olivia Warrington [00:14:49]: I did that more. And I go to every in person interview and for. If you're applying and you get an interview to a school, go and look at the campus, talk to the students, go and do a tour on your own. I did that. And I think that was the best thing I could have done is I went and I just. I did it and I went in person and I experienced this whole beautiful process of applying to grad school. It's so hard, but if you can almost romanticize it a little bit and make it this, like, awesome process, it just makes it so much less stressful and so much more of an accomplishment when you get there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:23]: Well, Olivia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. Thank you for sharing what you've learned thus far. I know it's not done. I know you still have time in front of you and probably your answers will be shaped over the next year and change as you are going through these intense clinical experiences. You're being put to the test for seeing how all that knowledge coalesces into the practice that you're doing with the patients that you're working with. But I just want to say thank you. Thank you for... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39155275

From Netflix to Doctorate: Seana Goodson's Journey Through Grad School 12/01/2025

From Netflix to Doctorate: Seana Goodson's Journey Through Grad School Are you contemplating graduate school, or already navigating its rigorous demands? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School” serves up a dose of inspiration, practical advice, and hard-earned wisdom from , a proud University of Michigan Flint candidate and Netflix professional. Hosted by , this conversation shines a light on what true resilience looks like—along with tips that can help anyone thrive on their own graduate journey. Seana’s story stands as a testament to the power of determination, unconventional paths, and lifelong learning. From navigating early obstacles as a young mother to returning to school and excelling at each step—from undergraduate studies in Sociology and English, to earning her MBA, and now thriving in a rigorous doctoral program—she embodies the spirit of perseverance and ambition. A key takeaway? Graduate school is no walk in the park. As Seana Goodson bluntly puts it, “you have to be ready—100% ready.” She stresses the importance of preparing yourself mentally, communicating clearly with family and friends, and carving out dedicated time for study, regardless of personal or professional obligations. Managing distractions by setting boundaries, using tools like calendar blocks, and being transparent with those who support you are essential strategies for success. A recurring theme is the importance of building a support system—your “tribe.” Seana Goodson credits her cohort and mentor network for providing the encouragement, understanding, and motivation that help her stay on track. Whether it’s a group chat with peers or finding mentors ahead of you in the process, leaning on this community makes the journey more manageable and far less lonely. On the topic of burnout, Seana is candid: it happens, but prioritizing self-care makes recovery possible. Meditation, carving out quiet moments, and giving herself grace are all tools she uses to avoid feeling overwhelmed. This episode is packed with encouragement and actionable tips, from the value of seeking out campus resources to the importance of giving yourself grace—especially when imposter syndrome creeps in. Ready to hear more about Seana’s journey and pick up inspiration for your own graduate school road ahead? Tune into this week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School” and discover what it truly takes to be a victor in your educational journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Seana Goodson [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you because it is a journey. Every one of you that are thinking about graduate school, no matter where you are in this process, are on a journey. Whether you're just at the very beginning starting to think about graduate school, maybe you've applied, maybe you got accepted, or maybe you're in a program. Doesn't matter. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:44]: Every one of you is on this continuum, this journey that you're going to be going through to be able to move toward the goals that you've set for yourself. This podcast is here to be able to help you in that journey. Every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can talk to you about the journeys that they have gone through or are in right now so that you can learn from them, maybe learn some things about what they did that maybe they wish they didn't do or things that they did that really worked. But in the end, it's all about helping you be successful. So I'm really excited that you're here, and I'm excited to introduce you to this week's guest, because this week's guest is Shauna Goodson, and Shauna has been in the entertainment business for many, many years. She works for Netflix and has her own graduate school journey, and she did her undergraduate work at Georgia State University, studying sociology in English. And we're going to learn a little bit more about the journey that she's been on to continue that education. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]: So I'm really excited to have her here today and to have her a part of this journey. Shauna, thanks so much for being here today. Seana Goodson [00:02:00]: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]: Well, I am really excited to have you here today to have you share some of this journey. As I said, I know that you did your undergraduate work at Georgia State University, and at some point in that journey, you made a decision because you were studying sociology and English. But at some point in that journey, you made a decision to continue your education. Bring me back to that point where you said to yourself, I need to continue this and go to graduate school. What was going through your head and why did you make that choice? Seana Goodson [00:02:34]: Well, for me, it's a lot of my so my journey has been anything but conventional. So I'll tell you about it. So even undergrad, so undergrad year, I've always been a rebel. So I'll let you guys know that right now. I've always been a rebel, so I'm always going against the grain. That's what we Aquarian people do. So when I was in undergrad, my sophomore year in undergrad, I got pregnant with my oldest son. So people said, oh, she's not going to. Seana Goodson [00:03:01]: She's on the dropout. She's not going to go back to school. She's not going to do that. Yes, I did drop out. So that's why my journey is not conventional. So once I decided to go back, then I said, okay, all of these naysayers, you know, said, I couldn't. Let me show you. I can. Seana Goodson [00:03:16]: So I did. So after I graduated from my undergrad with sociology in English, then I decided, okay, I'm going to go to grad school. I'm going to get my mba. So I did. I started on that journey and went to Nova Southeastern University, where I received my mba. And I've always had a thirst for knowledge, and I knew I wanted to continue. I knew I wanted to do something, even though my undergrad was soc. I knew I wanted to do something in the legal world. Seana Goodson [00:03:43]: But I also have entertainment intertwined in that because I am a big entertainment fan. So I knew I wanted to start that journey somehow. I didn't know how, but I knew I wanted to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:55]: So talk to me a little bit about that initial decision. So you decided to go to Nova southeastern for an MBA. So why an MBA? But also, there's many MBAs that are out there. You were in Georgia. You were. You could have stayed in Georgia. You could have gone anywhere around the country, and almost every university has an mba. So talk to me about what was it about, specifically Nova Southeastern that ultimately made you decide that that was the right program for you? Seana Goodson [00:04:24]: So the reason why I chose Nova 1 is because it was a highly reputable school. I mean, fantastic school. And one, I already had a child. So I knew I wanted to stay in the south because I had my kid. And. And also NOVA targeted people who are working adults. That. That's what stood out to me. Seana Goodson [00:04:44]: I wanted a program where I could still have my job and take care of my son, but I can also get my mba and I could do it in a quick time. Like, I didn't have to take breaks. It wasn't that kind of schedule. So I just went all the way through and finished in 14 months. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: Now, I know that since that MBA you went off, you worked. You've been working for many years. But at some point in this continuum of being in the entertainment industry for many years, at some point you made the decision, I'm not done and I want to continue. And you ultimately decided to apply to a doctorate of Business administration program here at the University of Michigan Flint. And you got in here. So talk to me about, just like we talked about with the mba, why a dba and why the University of Michigan Flint? Seana Goodson [00:05:33]: Well, let's talk about the University of Michigan Flint. Let's talk about the University of Michigan, the best school on the planet planet. And I am a huge Michigan supporter. My youngest son graduated from Umich Ann Arbor, and he's now a student at Umich Flint, working on his mba. So we're just a Michigan family by far. And Michigan. What made Michigan stand out for me was the reputation where I know I can take this degree. This degree is not going to be just a dba. Seana Goodson [00:06:03]: It's going to be a DBA from Umich Flint, period. So that's what was important. The reason why I chose to continue on my journey is one, I'm home by myself now. I don't have any kids in my house, but two, in my career, like I said, like, I'm thirsty for knowledge. Like, I want to learn more, I want to do more. And with AI being a big thing now in every industry, I said, okay, I need to go back to school. I need to get my dba. I wanted to stay in business. Seana Goodson [00:06:30]: Since I already had an mba, it just made more sense for me to get a dba. And I wanted to become a subject matter expert in artificial intelligence and how it's affecting the entertainment industry. So my dissertation in a Nutshell is Gone is about how artificial intelligence is transforming the way studios hire voiceover talent. Because that's one of my big negotiations. I draft and negotiate deals every day for animation. And one of the big sticking points is you're going to steal my talent's voice. Are you going to make a show or they're going to be out of work? So I want to show people it's not necessarily that. It's not going to put people out of work. Seana Goodson [00:07:09]: It's just going to enhance things for everyone. But with Umich on my back, I mean, I can take this everywhere. I can take this on the road, I can take this for Netflix. I could take this anywhere. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:21]: With every school that you go to and every program that you transitioned into. There are transitions. Going from being an undergraduate student to being a student in the mba, going from being in the entertainment industry for many years and then transitioning back into the classroom again. Transitions. And you found success in graduate school. Talk to me about at the mba, at the DBA level. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey that you've gone through thus far. Seana Goodson [00:07:57]: To set yourself up for success? One is, you know, you have to be ready. Graduate school is no walk in the park. It's a lot of work. So in order for me to set myself up for success before I even started in any of these graduate level programs, I knew I had to be ready, 100% ready. No distractions. I mean, we all have distractions, but you just have to know how to deal with your distractions and you just have to be ready and then you have to give yourself grace. That's the one thing. And, but like I said, you have to be prepared. Seana Goodson [00:08:29]: Like, I don't even know how to tell you to be prepared to be in this journey, but just know you need to be ready. Especially when you come to a school like UMich. Be ready. Because all the studies in any graduate level program is going to be rigorous. You know what I mean? It's not going to be simple. No one is going to hold your hand. But just being prepared, that's my only thing I can say is just being prepared and not having any, not letting distractions get in your way because you will have distractions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:57]: When you talk about distractions, what have you had to do to be able to minimize those distractions for yourself that might help others as their step stepping into graduate school. Seana Goodson [00:09:08]: For me, like, my schedule is busy. Like, I am slammed every single day, but I always carve out time that I know that I need to be focused on school and on my studies. And then as far as, like with my family, with my family, I always tell them, listen, I'm studying just yesterday, prime example. My sister wants to get on the phone and gossip about the housewives. I don't have time for that. It's like, listen, I'm working on my doctor right now. I. I have no time to talk. Seana Goodson [00:09:36]: So I have to let my family know I can't do some of the things that I used to do. Not right now. I will. One, once I graduate and once I become Dr. Shawna, then I can do stuff. And who knows, I might not be able to then because I'll be doing. I'll be on to the next thing. But it's just being real open and transparent with, if you have a job, being transparent with your job. Seana Goodson [00:09:58]: Listen, from this hour to this hour, I'm on dnd. Do not disturb me. And I do have a focus time on my calendar because for me, Sometimes I work 18, 20 hours a day. That's no joke. That's real. But people know if my calendar is blocked and if you're not pinging me saying, hey, I see your calendar is blocked for the next three hours. Is this real? Yes, it's real. I can't talk right now. Seana Goodson [00:10:21]: So I feel like that's one of the things that helped me along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:25]: I love that you said that because I have said that numerous times to many audiences along the way. To be able to say, hey, you do have to have those conversations up front. You need to make sure that as you are starting graduate program that you talk to the people around you. You need them as a support, as a support network. But at the same time, you need to be honest with them about what the reality is and what that experience is that you think the experience is going to be like. But then you have to go back and update them on what the reality actually is. Because you might say up front, I can talk to you every other day. But then as you get into it, you might be like, if I'm lucky, I'm going to be able to do this once a week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:06]: And because a lot of times your family or your friends think of you as, hey, I can just call shauna. Because we're BFFs and, and we always talk about the housewives. But the reality is they may. They've never been in a DBA program before. They don't know what it's like. And if you've said to them, I can talk to you every other day, they're going to expect you're going to talk to me every other day. And if you don't update that reality with them, they're going to feel slighted in many ways. So always continue the conversation, keep the communication open, and make sure that they are aware of what you're going through and what you need. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: Because if they're going to be a support, there's still going to be a support. They just need to know how to support you. Seana Goodson [00:11:46]: I totally agree with that because I have three adult sons and two granddaughters, and their reality now is do I need to get on mom's calendar? Because they can't talk to me all the time. And if I'm in residency, because we have residency once or twice a month, I am totally blocked out. Like I'm up at 5 o' clock because my first residency is at 6am My time, which is 9 on the east Coast. I can't talk to you. Just like you hear my. The pings going off right now. It's only 7:25 here and people are already pinging me from my office. But, you know, it never ends. Seana Goodson [00:12:24]: But I have to. You do. You have to be open with your family. You have to be open with your friends. Because I'm a socialite. That's real here. So brunch every Saturday or Sunday. I don't do those anymore. Seana Goodson [00:12:38]: I can't do them right now. Only time I was able to do one is when we had kind of a break. We had like a. Maybe before I was transitioning to. From one semester to the next. I think I had like a couple of days break. I did go and brunch then, but the brunch I went on was with another UMich student who is also working on her DBA who's graduating next year. And we talked about school, of course. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]: And that's another great point, is that as you're going through that graduate program, find those supports that you can have that are part of the program, Whether they're in your year, they're ahead of you, they're behind you. Because those individuals can be individuals that can help you as well in many different ways. Because sometimes you just need to vent to people that really get it, and that is definitely an important piece. Seana Goodson [00:13:27]: And find your tribe. So my cohort, we have a group chat that we get on them or we vent and then we talk about stuff and then we talk about. Do you understand this assignment? What. What should we be doing here? We do it all day. Like, we. And we all are working professionals. A lot of us are executives. So it's. Seana Goodson [00:13:46]: We just carve out the time to reach out to each other and that's why we have the group chat. So some people may not be able to answer now, but they might answer at three in the morning, which is six for them and three for me. So you find your tribe and then like some people in your cohort, you might have a closer relationship. Like I have the one person in my. A couple of people in my tribe is Melissa, Lance and Aaron. Like, I talk to those people all the time. We'll get on the phone, we'll talk and. And we might go through assignments together. Seana Goodson [00:14:16]: But those people become your. Your friends, your tribe. And so some of the, your, Your friends, your real circle, if they understand, they have to understand, like, okay, this isn't about us anymore. Now you have this whole new tribe of all these doctorate students, so you don't have time for us. But you. When you make them understand. Well, I have to talk to people who can. We. Seana Goodson [00:14:39]: We can bounce ideas off. So my mentor from my first. Is from the 1st DBA Corps. And I talked to her. She's awesome because she's already been through this journey. She's already hit certain walls that I have to hit. So. And then now I'm a mentor at. Seana Goodson [00:14:56]: In Michigan Flint for people under me, like master's students. So that's a blessing in itself because it makes me feel good to be able to help someone along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:04]: Now you've already been talking about how busy you are. You've got a ton of things happening. Netflix, you have a ton of things happening with your family and friends and a lot of people pulling from your time. For many students, that could lead to burnout. So talk to me about how did you. Do you avoid burnout? Or how do you recover from it when you have felt overwhelmed thus far? Seana Goodson [00:15:28]: The way to avoid burnout. And I am just a firm believer in this. I meditate. I used to believe in that because I said, oh, that's just bogus. That's an L. A thing like people. Everyone out here meditates. But it's real. Seana Goodson [00:15:42]: Sometimes I'll just sit in silence and I meditate. And I have these little things right here that I keep. These are. These are crystals that I keep. I just believe in energy and stuff. But. But I do. I meditate and I take time for myself. Seana Goodson [00:15:56]: And sometimes I'll take. Even if it's only five minutes, you take the time for yourself because you will burn out if you keep on the route that you go. Like for some. Like for instance, someone like me who works a lot. I work a lot. So I'm juggling all of these 50 million things, but then I'm juggling 50 million things from school. And you will hit that wall. And then so you have to.... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/39154110

From Psychology to Sports Management: Julia Stulock’s Grad School Story 11/24/2025

From Psychology to Sports Management: Julia Stulock’s Grad School Story Graduate school can be an overwhelming journey, filled with big decisions, self-doubt, and transformation. In the latest episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, welcomes , Director of Recreational Services at the , to share her unique path from psychology undergraduate to sports management graduate student. If you’re considering grad school, currently navigating your studies, or simply looking for inspiration, Julia’s story is a must-hear. She opens up about how her undergraduate experience prepared her well—often in surprising ways—for the academic rigor ahead. As a commuter student at UM-Dearborn, Julia always thought she’d go into research or become a professor, but her campus involvement revealed an entirely new career path in collegiate recreation. This episode underscores the value of staying open to new opportunities and following where your interests lead. One of the central themes is the importance of choosing the right graduate program. Julia encourages prospective students to consider not just the academic aspects, but also location, assistantship opportunities, and overall fit. Her experience at the University of Connecticut was shaped not only by a robust sports management curriculum but by a graduate assistantship that paid for her school and provided a stipend—a key piece of advice for future applicants. Listeners will also appreciate Julia’s candid discussion about the challenges of transitioning to graduate study: balancing school and work, adjusting to new expectations, and handling imposter syndrome. She highlights how building connections—through clubs, professional organizations, and classmate relationships—is essential for both emotional support and professional development. Her story is a reminder that community matters, and finding your people can make all the difference during tough times. Julia’s advice is both practical and heartfelt: don't be afraid to try something new, take calculated risks, and seek out opportunities, even if they seem outside your comfort zone. Graduate school, she says, is “where I found my passion,” and recommends reaching beyond the classroom to maximize your growth. Tune in to this episode to hear Julia’s reflections on how graduate school changed her approach to problem-solving and time management, and learn what she wishes someone had told her before she started. For anyone at any stage of their academic journey, Julia’s story is a powerful reminder that success often comes from embracing change, building connections, and following your passion. Ready for more inspiring stories and essential advice about thriving in graduate school? Listen to the full episode now! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you because it is a journey not no matter where you are in this continuum of looking at graduate school, maybe you're at the very beginning and just starting to think about, should I do this? Maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't, or maybe you've applied, waiting on that applicant that, that decision from your application, or maybe you just got accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school. No matter where you are, you are on a true journey. And this journey can go in many different directions. But this podcast is here to give you some tools for your toolbox to help you to be able to figure things out ahead of time, to give you some tools for the toolbox to help you figure out how to find success sooner. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]: Because that's what we all want. We all want to be successful in this academic journey that you're on. And whether it be from me, from a person in charge of graduate programs, I want all of my graduate students to be successful in this journey that they're pursuing. But personally, you do, too. And that's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share some of their own experiences in going through graduate school that can help you along the way. Today we got another great guest with us. Julia Stulock is with us. And Julia is the Director of Recreational Services at the University of Michigan, Flint, and she did her undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Dearborn and then went on from there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: So I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own experiences and to have her share that with you. Julia, thanks so much for being here today. Julia Stulock [00:01:53]: Yeah, really happy to be here and talk through my grad experience. Even though it was a little ways ago, it would be fun to walk down memory lane. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: I'm really excited to be able to talk to you. And I know, as I mentioned, that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Dearborn, and you got a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology there. And at some point, at some point during that undergraduate experience, you made a decision to continue on to get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head. That made you decide that grad school was the next step? Julia Stulock [00:02:27]: I think for me, because as you mentioned psychology major, I actually got my minor in stats. I always thought I was going to go to grad school. Whether it was because I wanted to become a professor or do research was the initial plan. I knew I'd have to get a degree beyond my bachelor's to do that. However, through my involvement on campus, I was involved in a club sport. By about my junior year, I started to realize through talking with other club sport leaders at other institutions, I was like, oh, there is a whole career path here in collegiate recreation that Dearborn doesn't have like a full recreation department. It's part of athletics. So I didn't realize, like, oh, this is like a whole separate department on some campuses. Julia Stulock [00:03:09]: So it was about halfway through my junior year that I realized I do still want to go to grad school, but I'm going to go for sports management instead of psychology like I originally planned. Because I saw this as an opportunity to keep doing something I love, but I need to get a degree in it to make that connection happen for my path. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:29]: So you decided on moving in a different path from psychology and moving a little bit of a different direction. So as you were making that decision for yourself, there are plenty of different programs that are out there in the area that you chose to study. And I'm sure that you went through your own process of exploring different programs, looking out there to determine what was the best fit for you. So talk to me about that process for yourself. I know that you ultimately decided to go to the University of Connecticut for their Master of Arts in Sports management. So talk to me about the process you went through to be able to identify the programs that you were considering and then what made you ultimately decide that the University of Connecticut was the right fit for you? Julia Stulock [00:04:15]: So I grew up in Michigan. I was a commuter student to Dearborn. A big part, I will admit for my search was I wanted to experience a different place. So I purposely looked only at out of state schools. I did my research online by looking through different rating website to see who had the best sports management degrees out there. There's also recreation management, which isn't as common as sports management. I didn't even know for sure that I wanted to work in collegiate recreation. Honestly, at that point I just knew I wanted to work in sports. Julia Stulock [00:04:48]: So I thought maybe that would look like an athletic department and CIA sports or possibly recreation. So I just was like, sports Management Recreation looked at the best programs out there. Also visited campuses. I was lucky enough to have friends scattered throughout the country that I could kind of go visit and stay with them and then go visit campus. So I looked anywhere from West Virginia University to University of Texas to a small school in Massachusetts, and I narrowed it down to, like, about my top six or seven to apply to. And as I was doing that, I also learned that there are these things called graduate assistantships or teaching assistantships at some schools. And that's ultimately what helped me decide on the University of Connecticut. I was accepted to a couple other programs, but I was offered a graduate assistantship in club sports at the University of Connecticut. Julia Stulock [00:05:38]: And they helped pay for my school and also gave me a stipend. That sealed the deal. There was another school I was considering. I'm like, oh, wait, you're going to pay me. I will absolutely go there. And they also had a great program to join for their sports management. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:52]: For every student, as they're transitioning from an undergraduate degree into a graduate degree, there is a definite transition that happens. There's a transition in the way that you're taught, the way that you're. The expectations that faculty have of you. And every person has to go through their own journey to be able to understand what that means for them and how to manage that situation for themselves. So as you were transitioning into graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And as you were going through that graduate school experience, what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout graduate school? Julia Stulock [00:06:32]: I think, thankfully, my undergraduate experience, I feel like, really prepared me very well for grad school. That, in fact, I had the same textbook for one of my statistics classes that I used in undergrad, and it was the same one. I'm like, I'm repeating a class here. Hold on. So I was really thankful for that, that Dearborn prepared me really well. And I think some of those changes you see going into grad school, right, is like you have these closer relationships with faculty who have smaller class sizes. And again, because Dearborn, just like Flint, has some of those smaller class sizes, I was already used to talking to faculty, not TAs, full professors. And I wasn't afraid of those conversations. Julia Stulock [00:07:11]: So I think that really set me up for success, that I didn't feel weird. Like, I had classes with 12 people. Our class size at UConn, my sports law class was small. We had a lot of serious, like, you know, detailed discussions. You couldn't not participate in those. So I think not being afraid to talk to your faculty is a big key to success. From my experience, just doing well in your undergrad classes, paying attention, because you never know when it might overlap or just it's building on top of something in grad school that it might feel like, well, why do I need this? I'm going into sports management. Statistics was required. Julia Stulock [00:07:49]: There were two required classes in grad school. I still had to take it. So not just assuming you won't need it again was really important. And I think one of the bigger challenges for me transitioning to grad school was that work school balance. Because of my graduate assistantship, I was working a lot of hours there, and that proved to be challenging in terms of making sure I was setting aside enough time, getting enough sleep. I was also not commuting any longer. So, like, being away from home and family, and it was more just about building those bonds so that you would have the support system. So, like, friends joining a club on campus so that I would not just be on my own and I had those support systems in place far away from home was really important because I can actually remember thinking at the end of my first semester, I would not have stayed at UConn unless I had joined the running club there, because that's how I made my friends. Julia Stulock [00:08:43]: That's how I felt like I belonged somewhere. That was really important because I think I would have left. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:48]: You know, I hear from a lot of graduate students that beyond the. Especially if they go away from home, beyond the separation anxiety and some of the other anxieties that they run into, there's this feeling of, am I meant to be here? Am I good enough? Can I live up to the expectations? Which comes down to what people call the imposter syndrome. And I guess as you think back to your own experience, how did that imposter syndrome or self doubt impact you and how did you handle it? Julia Stulock [00:09:15]: Yes, there were times, like I mentioned, that first semester was just hard, learning all these new things. I was in student affairs for the first time as well, because I had been an intern in the athletic department at Dearborn, which at the time, I didn't even know anything about student affairs. I don't know if we had a division. I had no idea what I was doing. There was a lot of learning about student development that, like, yeah, it made me go, like, what did I sign up for? Am I supposed to be here? Is this supposed to be this hard? And trying to think of, like, how did I overcome that? I think it was more just like talking with my classmates because a lot of us had graduate assistantships across campus. And it was reassuring to hear that other people had those same thoughts, that it wasn't just me. Well, and everyone can't not belong here, right? There was that common thread of, wow, we feel like this is a lot. And also just hearing sometimes stories of like, wow, I thought I had a hard day, but theirs was harder. Julia Stulock [00:10:11]: Just commiserating with each other was really helpful. And then overall, just being able to reflect on, like, this is just a part of growth. It is difficult and accepting that that comes with it. And again, those connection pieces of just finding people you connect with, where I felt like I really found my group towards the end of my first year. And that made the second year feel like I belong because I, I just had those connections built in where when you're the new kid, it's really hard to feel connected because you, you. It takes time to build those connections. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:40]: One thing that comes to mind, you know, earlier you talked about when you were looking at different programs, you looked at sports management, you looked at recreation management. You're currently in more of a recreational services, recreation management type of role at the University of Michigan, Flint. If you look back and I know your graduate degree was a, a number of years back, as you mentioned at the beginning, but if you had to do it, would you choose the same program or would you choose a different path? Why or why not? Julia Stulock [00:11:07]: I would do it all over again. For me, at the time when I was trying to decide between the two paths, it was more out of. I just didn't know enough about either one to decide for sure. And I knew I have two small kids. I knew that I wanted to have a family one day, or at least I hoped I would. And I saw the lack of work life balance, at least from my counterparts and my classmates in the athletic world. The amount of late nights and weekends and the hours like, I mean, not that I had a cakewalk, but man, theirs just seemed a lot more difficult. And I saw that, that just seemed to be a common thread across athletic departments and that didn't fit with what I was looking for. Julia Stulock [00:11:49]: I still have friends to this day that work in that field and they love it. And you've probably asked them, they wouldn't do anything different either. But for me, I knew I was looking for something that had more of that be balance. That wouldn't mean I was working every night and every weekend. So I would absolutely do it again. I would go to UConn again as well, because I will say I was challenged, but I grew a lot. I learned a lot. It is where, as I mentioned, I was introduced to student affairs and it is where I realized I really had this passion for collegiate recreation and that it could be something for everyone and not just the best of the best of athletes among us. Julia Stulock [00:12:28]: That it can be for everyone the best of the best and those just looking to have fun or to start a fitness journey. I was lucky enough to be a part of founding a governing body for a club sport which really opened my eyes to that too of just like the impact it can make on student experience and lifelong things too, like finding a partner or lifelong friends. And that's why it still keeps me here, is that I found that passion so I would not change a thing at all. And glad for the experience I had. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:59]: I know you mentioned earlier the importance of that running club as well as some finding that group for yourself. And sometimes students kind of buckle down and they think, especially with being more and more programs being remote from a campus, sometimes it's not always that easy to make those connections. I guess as you think back to the experience that you had and you were in a program that was in person and on a campus, talk to me about that connection and building those connections and the importance of being engaged beyond the classroom and what that did for you as a student. Julia Stulock [00:13:34]: Me being engaged outside the classroom is what helped me find my passion and my career path. But when thinking specifically about grad school. Right. I mentioned that running club because that was my in person connection. However, it helped me expand outside of our campus because this governing body that I mentioned is called nerca, it's National Intercollegiate Running Club Association. At the time I was the membership coordinator. So I got to talk with club leaders from across across the country about their running clubs and make friends and connections that way and learn about club sports that way. About how all the different ways that their departments run and how you know what type of support they had or didn't have. Julia Stulock [00:14:15]: And that was equally as important to my development and growth as what I was getting on campus. Because again, I still have those friendships to this day, decades later that are so meaningful in terms of again the impact we're making or just having a friend that you could call up somewhere and say like what do you think about this? Or what are you seeing? Because maybe they work in my field. So those. I think it's more just about finding like you mentioned that connection outside of the classroom. Whether it's a student org on campus, maybe it's volunteering with a group somewhere in your interest in your field, maybe it's reaching out to a professional to pick their brain and you end up finding a great mentor. You have to reach beyond that classroom because I don't know, for me personally, it's just where I felt like I got the most growth. Because as much as you can try to make a project in a class mirror the real world, it's never going to quite get it right fully if it's just a short couple week project. But that's where I got the most meaningful lessons and connections, was through finding those groups and connections outside of the class. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:21]: You know, as you think about your graduate school experience and what you're doing today, how did graduate school change the way that you think work or approach problems?... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38991475

Mentorship, Mistakes, and Mastery: Succeeding in Graduate School 11/17/2025

Mentorship, Mistakes, and Mastery: Succeeding in Graduate School Are you considering grad school or currently on the graduate education journey? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School” offers a wealth of insightful advice, candid reflections, and actionable tips for students at every stage of their academic careers. Hosted by , Director of Graduate Programs at University of Michigan-Flint, this episode features guest , Assistant Dean of Students at the and a current PhD candidate. Personal Journeys: Decisions and Mentorship The conversation begins with Lucas Langdon sharing his unique path from undergraduate studies to a thriving career in student affairs and eventually to graduate studies. He emphasizes the importance of mentorship and how key advisors helped him realize his passions could turn into a profession. For first-generation students, like Lucas, pursuing graduate studies can be daunting; strong mentors and professional opportunities, such as temporary staff roles after graduation, can be transformational. Choosing the Right Program One theme that resonates throughout the episode is the process of selecting a graduate program. Lucas Langdon recalls nearly rushing into a decision due to deadlines but ultimately taking the time to research top programs, visit campuses, and evaluate the fit. The lesson: don’t let urgency override intention. Prospective students are encouraged to engage deeply with programs, faculty, and campus environments before making their choice. Finding Financial and Professional Support The episode also highlights the value of graduate assistantships. Both Langdon and Dr. Christopher Lewis discuss how assistantships—whether in student affairs or other fields—provide not only crucial financial support but also practical experience relevant to students’ future careers. Listeners are advised to inquire early about assistantship opportunities, scholarships, and tuition benefits—sometimes available through employers. Balancing Life and Studies Graduate school often means balancing academic, professional, and personal responsibilities. Lucas Langdon provides honest advice about managing these demands, sharing his own experiences juggling full-time work and doctoral studies. He underscores the necessity of creating boundaries, finding peer support, and maintaining perseverance—even when motivation wavers. Building Networks and Planning Ahead Finally, listeners learn that faculty and cohort peers become an invaluable professional network. Lucas Langdon advises students to nurture these relationships and focus papers and projects on topics of personal passion, laying the groundwork for future research. Ready for more inspiring and practical grad school insights? Tune into “Victors in Grad School” for expert advice and personal stories that can help you confidently chart your own path to graduate school success. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and. experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love being able to sit down, talk to you, to work with you as you're going through this journey that you're going on, this graduate school journey. And no matter where you are in this journey, there are things that you can do right now, right now, while you're sitting there listening, that can help you to be better prepared and better successful in this graduate school journey that you're on. You could just be starting to look and thinking about graduate school. You might have applied, you might have gotten accepted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: Maybe you're in graduate school. There are things, no matter where you are in this continuum, that you can learn from others that have gone before you that will help you to be successful in this, this journey. And that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you to help you to learn, to grow, and to be able to get some new tools for your toolbox to help you find success sooner. Today we got another great guest, Lucas Langdon, who's with us. And Lucas is the assistant Dean of students at the University of Michigan, Flint. And Lucas has his own journey of going to graduate school, and he's currently a graduate student right now. So we're gonna be talking to him about this experience and this journey that he went on himself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: And I'm really excited to have him here. Lucas, thanks so much. Lucas Langdon [00:01:47]: Thanks for having me, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:50]: You know, I'm really excited to have you here today. And I know, I love starting these conversations, really making you go back in time, because I know that you did your undergraduate work at Eastern Michigan University. You did your Bachelor of Science in English Liter and Language and also Communication and Theater Arts. And then there was some point in time where you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on. And what I would love for you to do is to take me back in time. Take me back to that moment, that point in time where you said to yourself, I'm not done. I want to continue, and I want to move forward and get that graduate degree. Lucas Langdon [00:02:32]: So, as you know, my career has been in student affairs, and that started as a student who was very involved. I did something that would be unthinkable today. I delayed my undergraduate graduation by a year because I was involved in so many sort of outside of the classroom experiences that I wasn't ready to give up on. And so I kind of deferred that and during that year of deferment, really struggled with what am I going to do with my life? One of my mentors sort of made the obvious connection for me. You can continue to do the kinds of things that you're really passionate about here as a professional. And so, as luck would have it, there was a temporary staff opening at Eastern about the time I was graduating. And so I was able to jump into a staff role for that first year while I was figuring out what grad school looks like and had the ability to have those mentors who were supervising me there walk me through because I was a first gen student. So the idea of college was challenging, but the idea of graduate school was completely unheard of in my family. Lucas Langdon [00:03:32]: So having those mentors kind of talk me through, what does a grad school search look like? What are the important things to think about and sort of save me from a couple of maybe hate hasty decisions I could have made there. And then as that first temporary position was coming to an end, another one opened up, and that one sort of filled my time until I started graduate school the next fall at Florida State University. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:57]: So, as you just said, you decided to attend Florida State University, and it sounds like you did your due diligence in trying to look at different options and look at different schools and try to decide for yourself what was the best fit for you. Talk to me about that process, what you did to go through that. You mentioned avoiding some mistakes. So maybe talk about some of those possible mistakes you may have made and what made you finally ultimately choose that Florida State was the best. Lucas Langdon [00:04:27]: So what I was really alluding to with the mistakes is I almost rushed my search. And what I mean by that is I decided a little late in the cycle of things at that time with application deadlines, that I was going to go on this graduate school journey, as you put it. And almost every school's deadline had passed. All of the ones that my mentors were recommending as good student affairs graduate programs had passed, with the exception of one, which I won't name. But I didn't end up going there. I'm sure they're fine, but I had hastily decided, oh, I'll just apply to this, the only one I can apply to, having never been to campus to see it or really know anything about it. And So I sort of wisened up and decided, okay, no, I'm going to wait. This employment opportunity with the 10 position luckily came up. Lucas Langdon [00:05:07]: That afforded me the ability to do that, to wait a little bit longer and do a graduate school. The search the right way and what the right way looked like for me in my field of higher education, student affairs, was really doing some research into what are the top programs in my field, setting up some visits with them and at the time was willing to travel across the country and start over somewhere else for a little, for two years for graduate school. And so I convinced one of my buddies to do a road trip with me and I did back to back visits at Florida State University of Florida, University of South Carolina. And I think there might have been one more in there and at the time had pretty, pretty high rankings in my graduate program that I was interested in. So I went. I probably made some naive cosmetic assumptions about the schools that now having been in the field for a long time, I maybe wouldn't care so much about. But what it came down to is how I felt when I was there. And the reason that Florida State sort of won that, not that it was a competition, but won the competition for me, what a prize was that when I got there, they made sure that there were folks from the program to talk to me. Lucas Langdon [00:06:10]: They showed me around. It already felt like they were treating me like a human being and not a number. They did have a really good reputation at the time. I think they, they might have been the number one or number two student affairs program in the country at that time. And they were extremely welcoming of me. Now what? The other piece I didn't know that I wish I had was about what graduate assistantships were all about. And this might be buried in your question somewhere, but so I didn't initially know that that was a thing you have to plan for and apply for in advance and all that. So when I went to, I forget if it was a visit day or if it was like an orientation. Lucas Langdon [00:06:42]: There just happened to be a vacancy in one. And so somebody had got a different role and moved on or something. And I, I got the assistantship and that paid for my room and board, my tuition, working for housing, not in a live in position the first year, but that was huge financially for me to be able to take a graduate assistantship which I knew nothing about, but to take this job that they told me would pay for all of this stuff and give me practical experience while I was doing the academic side of the program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:12]: And one thing I'll. I'll mention to you that that are listening about graduate assistantships is that not every program requires an assist assistantship. Sometimes they do. So like the program that Lucas is talking about. His program required that students had assistantships, and that's a part of the program. But there are other programs that that's not the case. There may be ones that are available that you can apply for, but you need to do your research into that. Some assistantships can be full time, some assistantships can be part time, and the benefits can vary vastly based on campus and what you're doing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:53]: So you do have to do that research to be able to look into that, to make sure you understand what it is, what you have to do to apply and what you have to do to be considered. But don't automatically assume that an assistantship is going to be waiting for you, because at the campus that you choose to go to, there may not be assistantships, but there may be scholarships or other opportunities too. So you think you choose to. Lucas Langdon [00:08:13]: And those are the right questions to ask Chris, that I didn't know to ask, which is, are they the same timeline for application for both of them? Are they different timelines is like you said, is it? Everybody gets one if you get into the program. And as the market for graduate students in student affairs has shifted, some of those requirements have shifted. So at Florida State at the time, you weren't going to be probably a graduate assistant in a student affairs office if you weren't in the program for student affairs. But I know a lot of schools now, they need graduate students, and so they're a little less picky about which field you're studying while you're there. If you have the time to commit to the work of the assistantship, you might still be able to pull that off even if you're not going into higher education, which opens up a lot more opportunities for folks who might otherwise basically be looking at is there a teaching assistant job or a research assistant job? And that's really all that you used to be able to pick from. But now there's all kinds of offices. As the field of higher education manages financial difficulties for lots of reasons, the number of professional staff going down in some cases means they might be more willing to take on more graduate assistants do the work. So I would encourage anyone, if your life will fit a graduate assistantship role financially and experientially. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:26]: It's really a great opportunity now as any student moves into a graduate program. Actually, no, I want to ask another question first. Now, I also mentioned you're a current graduate student now, and I know that after a number of years of working, you decided to continue your education and you decided to work work on a PhD and you're working on that right now. So same question. Talk to me about that point in time. What made you decide that you wanted to take that step at that point in your career to go back to school after working for a While on a PhD and you, you ended up choosing to attend Eastern Michigan University? Same question. Why did you decide to attend Eastern University? Lucas Langdon [00:10:08]: My PhD question has a lot to do with sort of the ceiling for advancement in my career. And so I've been in this program now for over 10 years. Like I'm going to have to file an extension to be able to graduate for a couple of reasons that sort of, you know, Covid and some things sort of delayed that. But I had mentors telling me, you got to get the PhD. You're working at a university that will pay for. I was working at Eastern as at the time, as a director of campus Life. So Eastern would pay the tuition part of the bill for that, which amounted to, I don't know, 20, $25,000 worth of an education that I didn't have to pay for doesn't mean it was free. I had to pay all kinds of fees that I'm not working there. Lucas Langdon [00:10:45]: I obviously pay for the credits, but it was a huge chunk of financial burden that I didn't have because I worked there. So if you can get a job at the place where you want to study, that's often a tuition benefit comes along with that. So at the time, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do next, but I knew it would be a step up, hopefully in my career. And I was looking at vice presidents, student affairs jobs, or sociovi presidents, or in this case, assistant in a student's jobs. And I knew that to be competitive in the field, I was going to need to have that credential under my belt to be operating at a higher level of leadership at a higher education institution. The credential is important, especially on the academic side, to be able to be considered a colleague by academic peers, being able to say, yes, I've gone through the same academic, can we call it academic hazing that you've gone through. I've earned this. I know my stuff. Lucas Langdon [00:11:32]: So all of those things, would I do it again? I don't know. It depends on what day you ask me and what part of the stress of the PhD program I'm in. But I had all of those mentors and sort of the career path telling me, you probably need to do this, so you might as well start now. And I'll also add that when I worked for five years at an institution in Kentucky, that they didn't have a PhD program, but they had an MBA program that I could have done for free twice in the time that I was there. I didn't think I was going to be there that long, but I liked it. And I ended up staying. And I regretted not taking advantage of that benefit of education. Could have just had that extra credential and that knowledge. Lucas Langdon [00:12:06]: And so when I got to Eastern, they had the PhD program. And I thought, I can't make the same mistake twice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:12]: So true. And a lot of times when individuals are working at any type of company, one of the things that sometimes students don't look into is going to that HR office and saying, do you have an education benefit? It's always a great place to go and ask. It doesn't hurt to go in and just ask the question. They could say no, they could say yes. But always look at the fine print. Make sure you know what you're signing and make sure you know what the hooks are. Because sometimes there are hooks to the financial aspects to that as well. But it's always a possible financial possibility for you as a student. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:50]: As you're thinking about graduate education now, Lucas, as you transitioned into your master's degree, into your doctorate degree, there are transitions that you go through. Now you went from undergrad into a graduate program, and there's a transition there because the way you're taught as an undergraduate student is different than the way you're taught in the expectations that faculty have of you as a master's student. But then going from work into a PhD student, again, different way, different way of being challenged, different way of looking at things. So think to those transitions. You were able to find success in your master's degree, you've been able to be successful in your PhD degree. And as you found success in graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into the program, and what have you had to do to maintain that success throughout the steps, throughout the program? Lucas Langdon [00:13:56]: So start by saying, I don't think I transitioned particularly effectively or intentionally into a master's program, because again, I had no idea. To me, this just felt like, like the next year of college. But what I came to learn very quickly is that even more than undergraduate, the things that were going to be Important to my success were the peer network in my classes and the faculty relationships, which are important in undergrad, but even more so in the master's work. So that transition was initially maybe a little rocky. Again, I sort of picked up and moved to a different part of the country. So I knew no one there, knew nothing about this thing I had decided to jump into. But luckily, because I had that assistantship role on campus, that put me into a network of other graduates, graduate assistants who would be taking classes with me. And we're also having parallel sort of job experiences that, that could sort of bond us together as well. Lucas Langdon [00:14:47]: And if you know anything about working in housing, you have a lot of weird things that happen when you're running residence halls. So could have got those things to bond over. And so creating that social network there, which I was a little slow to develop because I just didn't know how important it was going to be, that became monumentally important. And then also the people who are in your program with you and your faculty become your initial network professionally. So I always tell students, even the... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38991415

Communicate with Confidence: Tips for Graduate Student Success 11/10/2025

Communicate with Confidence: Tips for Graduate Student Success Effective communication isn’t just a buzzword; it’s a core skill for success in graduate school and in life. In the latest Victors in Grad School episode, "Communicating Your Needs with Confidence," and tackle a challenge every grad student encounters: advocating for yourself and expressing what you truly need to thrive. Reilly Chabie, a regular contributor, dives deep into why communication matters—not only academically but across every dimension of wellness. She introduces listeners to the "balancing act" every student faces, emphasizing the Eight Dimensions of Wellness (emotional, environmental, physical, etc.) and how imbalances can directly impact our ability to communicate effectively. Stress, a common companion for grad students, gets special attention. Reilly details how physical, emotional, and cognitive symptoms of stress can interfere with clear communication—reminding us that a little stress is normal, but chronic stress can sow confusion and erode confidence. Knowing yourself and recognizing when stress is impacting your communication is the first step toward improvement. The podcast unpacks common barriers to effective communication. From emotional dysregulation and lack of trust, to power dynamics, cultural differences, imposter syndrome, and assumptions, Reilly paints a honest picture of challenges students face daily. She references “The Four Horsemen” communication pitfalls (criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling), illustrating why learning new healthy habits is vital. Listeners are guided through the spectrum of communication styles—passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive, and assertive. The goal? To build assertive communication skills that foster respectful dialogue and collaborative problem-solving. Reilly provides actionable tips: plan ahead, create the right environment for conversations, use “I” statements, pay attention to nonverbal cues, and actively listen—not just talk. Perhaps most compelling is the discussion around boundaries. Setting and communicating personal limits is crucial to self-advocacy and maintaining healthy relationships in grad school. If you’re navigating group projects, research collaboration, or simply balancing multiple life roles, this episode is packed with insights and practical advice. Whether you’re a new student or a seasoned grad, you’ll find wisdom that applies beyond the classroom. Ready to advocate for yourself and build confidence in your communication? Listen to this episode and start your journey toward more effective, fulfilling conversations—both in and outside grad school. Looking for actionable communication resources? Don’t miss this episode—you’ll be glad you did! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:03]: We have conversations with students, alumni and. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: Experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Hello and welcome. Thanks so much for being here today. I'm Dr. Lewis, the director of graduate programs here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited that you're here today because today we're going to be talking about a really important topic. We're going to be talking about about the importance of communicating and advocating for yourself. Because as a graduate student, you definitely have to be able to advocate for yourself and you gotta be able to talk to people and tell people what you need to be able to be successful in this graduate school journey that you're on. And today we got a great guest with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]: Riley Chaby is with us again. And I'm really excited to have Riley here today to talk about this really important topic with you. So I'm going to turn it over to her. Riley, thanks so much for being here today. Reilly Chabie [00:01:02]: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the introduction, Dr. Lewis. I appreciate it. And as Dr. Lewis mentioned, communicating your needs is a crucial part of not only being a graduate student, but also just kind of existing in the world. So I hope today's presentation is helpful in all contexts of your life. To kind of get started, we'll go over a brief overview as to what you can expect. Reilly Chabie [00:01:26]: We're going to talk a little bit about something I like to call the Balancing act of just being a Graduate Student. That'll come up here shortly. I'm going to talk about why does communication matter? Just kind of brief things that are related to you as a graduate student, but also just why communication matters in the grand scheme of life. We're going to talk about some barriers that we might experience for effective communication. And then we're going to learn how to communicate with confidence, some tips, tricks, things to kind of consider in order to navigate these challenges. All right. It would not be a CAPS presentation if we didn't talk a little bit about the eight dimensions of wellness. If you've ever seen any of my presentations before, you have definitely seen me talk about these dimensions. Reilly Chabie [00:02:18]: And interestingly enough, most of U of M Flint's Division of Student affairs programming focuses and aims to provide supports that relate to these eight dimensions of wellness, which interest. Interestingly enough, my conversation today does relate to the eight dimensions of wellness. So very briefly, the eight dimensions of wellness essentially creates a visual representation of all of the aspects that make us up as a person. So we all have. And kind of looking at the wheel on my screen Here we all have emotional connections, we have environmental connections, physical connections, so on and so forth. And all of these areas require our attention at any given point during our day to day functioning. That kind of leads into this balancing act that while you're functioning as a graduate student, you are absolutely trying to balance all of these dimensions in a way that makes you kind of feel fulfilled, makes you feel like you're achieving the things that you want to achieve, and ultimately you utilize these to kind of guide your everyday decisions. Now, a big part of this is that if any of these dimensions are feeling a little out of whack or we feel like we're not engaging in them as much as we would like to, that does disrupt our general functioning, which can very easily lead to a lot of different frustrations and truthfully plays a large role into why we struggle with communicating the things that we need. Reilly Chabie [00:03:59]: Right. That I might not know that I'm physically hurting until I really think about it. It. And if I don't take care of that physical nature, I might be more irritable or you know, struggling in a particular area and having a hard time communicating that. So it's helpful to kind of put this into context with our communication patterns and this knowledge will kind of help us. What's the right word? It's going to help us identify what needs we actually have and really play into the types of communications that we need to provide. So kind of keep that in mind as we move forward here. I also want to touch a little bit on stress symptoms specifically, because if we're considering how the eight dimensions of wellness allow us to function, and when one of them isn't being focused on as much or is struggling in some context, we ultimately will experience some level of stre. Reilly Chabie [00:05:03]: And the symptoms and kind of definitions on your screen here also help us to see when our communication is not being effective. Right. That if we're not communicating as deeply or as importantly as we'd like to be, we might experience chronic stress. So a brief definition of stress. This is our physical, emotional and cognitive reactions to certain demands, threats, or just changes in our daily routines. And I bet you anything as a graduate student, you have a lot of changes going on on your day to day experience. Whether you're in classes, going to work, studying, maybe taking care of kiddos, just trying to navigate all of these different roles, you absolutely are going to have differences and changes in your routine when these things happen, though, we might experience some level of stress. I think it's important to note that general levels of Stress or are actually pretty okay. Reilly Chabie [00:06:05]: Stress can be a really big motivating factor in how we navigate the world and ultimately leads to kind of doing our best work. Sometimes that, you know, for example, if I was stressed about giving this presentation, I might work really hard to provide you the best material. Right. And make sure that I'm providing things that would be helpful for this. But the issue becomes when we experience these stress system, excuse me, symptoms intensely and chronically. So it's not just a here and there experience, but more so it's every day or every other day, or it's so intense that we feel like we can't function in a way that helps us navigate the world. So some of the things that you want to look out for are your physical symptoms. So those could be sleeping problems, muscle aches, headaches, frequent colds. Reilly Chabie [00:07:02]: Our immune system is affected by our stress levels or increased heart rate. Emotionally, you might notice some anxiety, depression, loneliness, low self esteem. And then cognitively or kind of in our mind, we might experience memory concerns, worrying about things constantly, difficulties concentrating, and possibly poor judgment and impulse control. This one in particular will relate to our communication patterns in just a second. So just kind of keep that in mind as we move forward here. So with some of those stressors in mind, I think it's helpful to kind of consider how communication really plays into our experience and why it's important that we're experiencing these things. So communication is a fundamental component of relationship building. I mean, it's kind of the center of our universe, right? We have to communicate in order to navigate these things. Reilly Chabie [00:08:07]: Having effective communication or working on your communication will reduce your overall stress, which relates to our previous slide, talking through some of those stressful things. Having effective communication will absolutely help your groups, people that you're communicating with, or just general organizations work more cohesively and lead to better productivity, which absolutely plays a role in your life as a graduate student. If you're doing group projects, doing research, working in a lab, whatever it might be, it also helps to build your confidence and it helps you advocate and it ultimately helps you build trust with the people that you're working with or engaging with in a way that really makes life feel more fulfilling. You know, the more that you practice your communication skills and the more you work toward identifying the things that you need to communicate, the easier it is, no matter what setting you're in. And then lastly, it does reduce levels of conflict, and I'm talking about conflict in all of the different areas of your life, whether that's in romantic Relationships, friendships, co worker relationships, anything like that. It prevents misunderstandings due to lack of clarity or miscommunications in some way. So if we're effectively communicating, we're absolutely moving in the right direction. Keep these things in mind as we navigate the skills that we're going to talk about later, because those skills are what we practice so that we can gain these effective communication skills. Reilly Chabie [00:09:45]: Let's shift a little bit into communication barriers. Obviously, communication is not just a simple thing that we do every single day. In some ways it is. For example, I'm communicating with you right now, and this is relatively simple, but it's not always gonna look that way. And I think it's helpful to go through some of the barriers or things to kind of consider that might be affecting the way that we navigate these conversations. So I want you to take a moment and I'll briefly pause for you to think about this. I want you to think about what some of your barriers are to effective communication, because there's lots of them. There's no perfect list, but take a second and just kind of reflect on what barriers you foresee in your day to day. Reilly Chabie [00:10:40]: Now, as you think about those things, I'm going to list off a few and talk through some of my thought process around struggles with communication. One big area of communication barriers is our emotional dysregulation. So take a second and think of a time when you were feeling really overwhelmed. Maybe you were experiencing stress, maybe something was really confusing to you and you started to feel really irritated. And maybe you were asking yourself, why am I even bothered by this? What's going on in my life where I'm feeling this frustrated? Right? Those things are starting to come up in your mind. This might lead to heightened emotional states. Maybe we're feeling extra angry or extra sad, or really struggling to kind of navigate this area of our life. And that type of emotional dysregulation absolutely makes it difficult to be clear, concise, and communicate effectively. Reilly Chabie [00:11:42]: Sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment that we really don't mean, or we end up crying during a conversation and feel like we can't get a word out, or our anger is so hard that we prevent other people from adding to the conversation. All of these different things relate to emotions, dysregulation, and we want to kind of keep that in mind as we navigate these challenges. We're also going to want to consider our locations or spaces. There are definitely some places that are not conducive to a good conversation. For example, I'm not going to have a conversation about how my friend upset me the other day at a really loud concert. That doesn't really make any sense. So we're going to want to consider some of the best places to have these conversations and consider how that plays into the context of the conversation. Trust or distrust absolutely plays a role here. Reilly Chabie [00:12:41]: That if you trust somebody, you're probably going to be more likely to be vulnerable and talk about things that are bothering you or advocate for your needs. If you're not so trusting or you're struggling to see how a person can be trustworthy, we might be more restricted in terms of what we want to talk about, which might lead to miscommunication, it might lead to resentment. A lot of detriments happen when we don't trust the people that we're talking to. So keep that in mind too. That effective communication works really well with people we trust. So that means we need to build trust by practicing communication skills. It's kind of a reciprocal relationship. We also want to consider some power dynamics here. Reilly Chabie [00:13:27]: As a graduate student, you might be working with a boss or a professor or other people that maybe kind of are above you in terms of your hierarchy at your work or in school. And then you might also have your own employees or other people that you're maybe supervising, et cetera. We want to make sure that based on these power dynamics, we're effectively communicating without increasing that awareness of the power differential. That, yes, there's a reason that we have that power differential, but that can make things more or less uncomfortable. When trying to communicate something. It might be difficult to communicate to a professor about something, or it might be really easy to talk to a supervisee about something. So trying to navigate it based off of that, we also might want to consider cultural differences. Obviously, the way that I communicate is going to be much different than somebody in a different cultural background, maybe somebody who speaks a different language than I do. Reilly Chabie [00:14:31]: We really want to have that be part of our lens when we're communicating. We don't want to be disruptive or assume that people are going to communicate the same way with us, especially based on those cultural differences. So being mindful of that or noticing how it might affect the receiving end of that, that me saying something to somebody might be misinterpreted based on those cultures. Cultural differences. Imposter syndrome also plays a role in this. And what I mean by imposter syndrome is it relates to our confidence or our feelings about whether or not we can communicate that perhaps we feel like we're not able to speak up because we feel like we don't know what we're talking about. Or we assume people are kind of viewing us in a way where we don't belong. So we end up not communicating concerns and kind of leading to some of those stressful symptoms. Reilly Chabie [00:15:28]: So that absolutely can play a role. But the hope through this presentation is that we build some skills that can kind of change that aspect. Information overload is a big barrier to communication. Obviously, when we're taking in a lot of information, we have to process all of that. Like our brain has to work through that information and then that stimulus in order to figure out how to respond or figure out how that applies to our experience. So if there's a lot coming at us, for example, in a lecture or in another format, we might have a hard time synthesizing those thoughts and communicating in a way that's effective, that's clear. Or we just might be confused as to what we're talking about in the first place. So that can absolutely be a barrier. Reilly Chabie [00:16:14]: And we kind of have to navigate that by seeking clarification or moving through it differently. Misunderstandings or miscommunications are a big piece to communication barriers. That is, if somebody is regularly misunderstanding you or you feel like there's been a miscommunication, a lot of that relates to clarity and conciseness. Or sometimes people feel like they have to kind of navigate these conversations in a filtered way where they're only taking bits and pieces of what you're saying and kind of misconstruing it. So misunderstandings are very, very common, but they absolutely can contribute to the difficulties here. And then the last one that I want to touch base on are assumptions. We can't assume that people know what we're talking about, right? We have to communicate things clearly. And even then, there still might be some difficulties. Reilly Chabie [00:17:12]: So something that we want to consider here is that no matter how we're communicating or no matter what we think of other people or doing, doing something related to a conversation, we need to be prepared for any assumptions we might hold, and also the assumptions they might hold about us. And nobody can read your mind, right? So we don't want to assume that they're just going to get it right away or that without communicating that they're going to help you in the way that you need. So assumptions definitely play a role here. And once again, not an exhaustive list of barriers, but a really good overview of things that we might be experiencing. I also want to talk about a very unique type of communication barrier. So Gottman, both Julie and John, they're a married couple. They created a type of couples therapy that focuses on just communication. Right. Reilly Chabie [00:18:10]: And one thing that I really loved about what they provided in this training for other therapists is something called the Four Horsemen. Now, I'm not talking about the four Horsemen of the apocalypse. I know that's really common, but I'm actually talking about the Four Horsemen in terms of communication patterns. Gottman noted that there are four types. There's criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38786085

Juggling Responsibilities: Key Tips for Graduate Student Success 11/03/2025

Juggling Responsibilities: Key Tips for Graduate Student Success Graduate school is a journey often described as a juggling act, and for good reason. In the recent episode “Juggling & Balancing – How to Multitask and Stabilize in Grad School” of the Victors in Grad School podcast, and Matthew Oxie delve into what it really takes to find success amidst the constant pull of academic, personal, and professional responsibilities. Understanding Grad School Stress Dr. Lewis opens the conversation by normalizing the stress that comes with graduate school. As he puts it, “There is a lot that you are going to be tossing in the air… Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail. And that's okay as long as you learn along the way.” This sets a compassionate tone for exploring the sources of grad school stress—ranging from academic pressure and family obligations to financial concerns and planning for life after graduation. Matthew Oxie, a licensed counselor with CAPS at UM-Flint, provides further insight, citing research that graduate students are two to six times more likely to experience anxiety and depression than their undergraduate peers. Stressors like career planning, clinical rotations, commuting, and social obligations all play a role, often overlapping and compounding each other. The Eight Dimensions of Wellness A major highlight from the episode is the discussion of the Eight Dimensions of Wellness, which include physical, emotional, environmental, financial, occupational, social, intellectual, and spiritual health. Matthew encourages listeners to use these as both a diagnostic tool and a growth map—reminding us that thriving in one area can help offset struggles in another. Self-Care vs. Self-Soothing: What’s the Difference? Perhaps the most impactful segment is Matthew’s exploration of self-care versus self-soothing. He stresses that while activities like watching Netflix or having a treat are important for unwinding, true self-care is intentional and structured—it’s about setting boundaries, routines, and practicing deliberate actions that nourish long-term wellbeing. Strategies That Work The episode wraps up with practical advice: prioritize tasks, intentionally schedule downtime, set boundaries (like keeping work email off your phone), and leverage campus resources such as the rec center or counseling services. Matthew and Dr. Lewis also encourage graduate students—no matter if they’re on-campus or online—to “get involved” in community and social activities. If you’re feeling the weight of multiple responsibilities or struggling with balance in grad school, this episode is a must-listen. You’ll come away with not just empathy for your situation, but tangible strategies for thriving—one step, and one intentional action, at a time. Ready to find your balance and become a victor in graduate school? Listen to the full episode for more insights and encouragement! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Thanks so much for being here today. I am Dr. Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you here today. And as always, you know, I am excited that we're going to be talking about a really important topic because as you go through graduate school, you definitely are going to be doing a lot of juggling. There is a lot of things that you are going to be tossing in the air and you're going to be trying to keep going. And balancing all of that as you're going through graduate school is something that all of us that have gone through graduate school before have had to work through. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:53]: And that's okay as long as you learn along the way. And today we've got Matthew Oxy with us. And Matthew is one of our counselors in our CAPS office. And I love our partnership with CAPS because we always talk about amazing topics that will help all of us to be able to learn something a little bit new. So I'm going to turn it over to him to walk us through and talk to us about this important topic. Thanks Matt. Matthew Oxie [00:01:19]: Excellent. Yeah, no problem. Thank you for having me again, Dr. Lewis. Matthew Oxie [00:01:22]: Hello. Matthew Oxie [00:01:22]: Like Dr. Lewis said, my name is Matthew Oxie. I'm a licensed professional counselor with the Counseling and Psychological Services, the CAPS department here at U of M Flint. I do. Like I said, how does that make you feel? Therapy oftentimes Today we are going to talk about how to multitask and stabilize while in graduate school through effective self care strategies, time management tactics and ways you can get involved both on campus and within your own communities to help promote your own well being. So a couple disclaimers beforehand. This is not going to be direct therapeutic advice. I advise if this is something you're seeking, you can either find services at caps, which we'll talk about here soon, or services within a community, or you're already connected. Matthew Oxie [00:02:09]: But just as a little word of advice. This is not like formal therapeutic advice. The next thing this lecture may not be a full hour. I am, I like public speaking. I'm very good at it. But I'm also kind of a fast talker. So if you guys have any questions, feel free to shout them out in the chat and I will get to them. Dr. Matthew Oxie [00:02:26]: Lewis, you as well, if you have anything, please let me know. But I guess before we really get started, I want to start with something kind of controversial guys might not be aware of this. Matthew Oxie [00:02:38]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:02:39]: Grad school can be stressful. Shocking, I know, but it's important to recognize this before we get too deep into the nitty gritty of what we want to talk about with multitasking here. So the types of stressors graduate students face. I've got my speaker notes down here, so it looks like I'm not looking at the screen. I've got my speaker notes down here. I'm not checking my phone or anything like that. So correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Lewis, but University of Michigan Flint currently offers over 30 graduate programs. Matthew Oxie [00:03:10]: Actually, I was going to say over 50. Over 50. Matthew Oxie [00:03:13]: Wow. Matthew Oxie [00:03:14]: I was looking at the. The course selector. Not the course selector like the major selection thing, like the academic programs. I only counted about 35. So you got over 50, we've got over 50. So that furthers the point that across the University of Michigan Flint campus, graduate students are a significant portion of our university's makeup. Right. So this is something that's important to talk about. Matthew Oxie [00:03:38]: Obviously, if you're listening to this, you're likely a graduate student at U of M Flint. So you understand that now common sources of graduate student stress. Graduate student student stress. Someday I'll be able to get that combination of words out of my mouth. Now, there is actually an index for this. There is the Graduate Stress Inventory. It was made in the mid-90s and it's been revised over the decades. And it asks a series of questions related to environmental, academic, and then family and monetary stressors as well. Matthew Oxie [00:04:10]: And you can see those are listed here. Academic stress, family issues, interpersonal relationships and financial stress. Additionally, though a little bit more specific to graduate school or I guess in addition to the gsi, we have career, right? Career placement, career planning. What are we going to do after graduate school as well as research and teaching. I know it is a very important part of some programs that you write a thesis, for example, or you have teaching experience or you're expected to teach or run a class or a lab. Matthew Oxie [00:04:47]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:04:47]: Just depends on what you're studying. There are other problems that are more broad that can amplify some of these stressors, Other concerns that might be totally unrelated to graduate school, but can make it harder to get through poor physical health or disabilities. If we talk about something like a physical disability, chronic pain, and even sometimes increased fatigue, all of these things can, as we've said, amplify the stress of what is above mental and emotional struggles. Matthew Oxie [00:05:22]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:05:23]: Preexisting mental health struggles or mental health diagnoses. Or mental health struggles and diagnoses that crop up as a result of graduate school. We'll talk about that here on the next slide. So I don't want to get too, too much into the mental and emotional stuff right this second. Sleep can amplify issues. How many of us don't get enough sleep in graduate school? I'm sure quite a few of us. Matthew Oxie [00:05:47]: Right? Matthew Oxie [00:05:47]: That constant, seemingly chronic exhaustion can lead to again, further feelings of stress and then finally age. This one, while Empirical is also a little more anecdotal. Age can play a role in increasing the potency of some of these stressors. Matthew Oxie [00:06:06]: Right? Matthew Oxie [00:06:06]: I want you to think about it. Older students are more likely to be a little bit more established. What I mean by that is you probably already have a family, you already have a career you might be juggling, and you might have yourself embedded in other parts of your communities, for example, on top of graduate school. Whereas someone coming right out of undergrad may not have those exact same stressors right now. Moving on to our next slide here we've got the what now? Let's talk about the how how stress affects graduate student. So before we really get into this, there is a plethora of research on graduate student stress. However, given that's not the topic of the presentation, I'm just going to give you some of the highlights and I promise the rest of the presentation is just a little bit more uplifting than this right here. So graduate students report higher rates of stress than undergraduate students. Matthew Oxie [00:07:10]: The 2013 study by Wyatt and Oswald showed that while undergraduate students show significantly higher rates of mental illness, graduate students report higher rates of stress. This stress comes from many of the aforementioned stressors that we just talked about, right? There are a lot of expectations put on graduate students. Graduate students are six times more likely to experience anxiety and depression. And those who experience anxiety and depression also report a poor work life balance. Now, I know that sounds contradictory to the last point. This study done in 2018 found that graduate students are two to six times more likely to experience anxiety and depression during grad school, right? This can lead to that increased anxiety or decreased work life balance. My words are all over the place today. I do sincerely apologize. Matthew Oxie [00:08:07]: So despite grad or undergraduate students reporting higher rates of mental health struggles, graduate students are still more likely to experience those mental health struggles as well throughout their time. And finally, many multicultural elements play a role in some of the stress as well. Everything is multicultural. When we look at some of these elements, we find that graduate students who face particularly racial discrimination and Financial distress have higher rates of anxiety and depression during graduate school. These findings persist with racial discrimination and financial stress. These findings persistent even when students have strong familial and social support. So if faced with racial injustice or heavy financial pressure, regardless of a social or familial support network, you'll still see some of these issues crop up. Additionally, students who reported as LGBTQ had higher odds of anxiety and depression on an individual level. Matthew Oxie [00:09:20]: And students who reported financial distress were way more prone, particularly to anxiety. In this study done in 2021, financial stress was a large indicator of anxiety. So we've done the fun part. I think I have another bullet point there. Women and international students tend to show heightened distress in graduate school as well. We've done the super fun part. We have established that graduate school is stressful. We know what stresses students out. Matthew Oxie [00:09:53]: We know how that, how that stress affects you guys on both the macro and the micro level. However, like I said, identifying stress is not the goal of this lecture. It's the foundation for what we kind of want to talk about here, right? The goal is to learn and discuss ways to balance graduate school with everything else. Now, graduate students have kind of a full plate. Again, I'm just full of shocking statements for you guys today. You guys probably did not know that before I said that as graduate students, I have a lot on your plates. What we have examples here on this slide, right? Some examples of things that are or make you make us busy as graduate students. Coursework and exams. Matthew Oxie [00:10:44]: I know some graduate programs have exams multiple times a week for multiple weeks in a row. Some graduate programs here on campus even condense. And their hell weeks, for example, are even more jam packed with exams because instead of the full 16 weeks, it drops to like a 10 week, 12 week program, right? There's teaching and there's researching, as we mentioned. Sometimes there is an expectation that you run your own class or there's an expectation that you're doing research for your thesis, for your final report. Clinical rotations behind me, you can't see it particularly well through the windows, but I'm across the river from the white building and most of the programs in there, pa, pt, nursing, all require some degree of clinical rotations, some of which are not particularly close to home. Full or part time jobs, whether you have a 20 hour a week, you know, kind of like flash money job that you do working at a coffee shop, or if you're like my colleague Riley, who is currently enrolled in our social work program here at U of M Flint and is also Working as a CAPS counselor, full time work can be stressful. Your occupation can add a lot of things for you to do. We talk about expectations. Matthew Oxie [00:12:00]: It's a. It's a whole nother slew of things. Family obligations. This can look a million different ways. This can look like raising children, supporting a partner, supporting your parents if they're older, or navigating life with a chosen family, for example. Family obligations are persistent. Commutes. I feel like this one isn't really talked about as much. Matthew Oxie [00:12:23]: Some students, I mean, U of M Flint is a commuter school. I know we have on campus residencies and we offer quite a few remote programs and remote classes. But at its core, U of M Flint has always been a commuter school. And sometimes those commutes really can add up. Like I said, whether you're going to class or going to a clinical rotation, that's an hour away. If you live here on campus and your clinical rotation is in Ann Arbor, down at Michigan Medicine, that's a two hour round trip commute you have to take every day, potentially longer. And while the commute itself might not be particularly difficult, US23 is not a very hard drive. It does take away a lot of time. Matthew Oxie [00:13:05]: And it makes some of these other things like researching and managing your family and managing your coursework more difficult because that time you have to do it is now even less because you have to spend two hours on the road, for example. And then finally clubs, professional organizations, or governing bodies within your cohort. Matthew Oxie [00:13:24]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:13:24]: I know some programs have like a class president, for example. And then you may be. I believe when I was in graduate school, I was in, I think it was called Chi Sigma iota. It was the professional fraternity for counselors. I believe so. And I was on the board of that. I believe I was the secretary treasurer. It was one of the things. Matthew Oxie [00:13:45]: It was a long time ago. I apologize for not fully remembering. But all of these things are examples of what the average graduate student might be faced with. What do we notice about the examples that were laid out? They look nearly identical to the things that caused us that kind of stress. I know, that's kind of obvious, right? When we talk about things being on our plate, they often correlate to being stressful. Matthew Oxie [00:14:15]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:14:18]: Graduate students are faced with many, if not all of these challenges at the exact same time throughout their programs. I have talked a little bit now about the kind of obvious stressful balancing act that is graduate school. So let's get into the actual meat and potatoes of the lecture. Let's discuss ways to Juggle all of these things, balance all these things, prioritize and manage everything we have here and potentially more while keeping our heads above water. The eight dimensions of Wellness. If you have been a student at U of M Flint for any period of time, I am sure you are familiar with this image. The eight dimensions of wellness are something that university health and well being. University health and wellness uhs, they are. Matthew Oxie [00:15:13]: They're very big on the eight dimensions of wellness and for good reason. Honestly, these dimensions, they can help us from a practical sense, the eight dimensions of wellness can help us categorize some of our concerns and help us recognize where we can grow and also really where we're thriving. They don't just have to be about, oh, what am I lacking? We can look at these eight dimensions and go, okay, I'm secure in these areas. And that can help again further that wellness and foundation. I very briefly want to discuss each of them because I know sometimes these are not discussed, they're just sort of slapped right on the page and you're just expected to be like, oh yeah, it's intuitive, it makes sense and in a lot of ways it is. So this is information from both, I believe, University of Michigan and for the life of me, I can't remember the other website, but you'll see it in the references. What other university I got this information from. So just going to go, start at the top, going to go clockwise here. Matthew Oxie [00:16:13]: Physical. It's the ability to maintain quality of life that helps you get through the activities of the day with ease. Emotional awareness. These are an awareness of, of thoughts and feelings and responses to daily interactions and events. Environmental wellness is our respect for ourselves, our respect for our community, and a respect for our environment and its surroundings. Right? This can be a love of nature, a love of keeping our cities clean, for example, like really caring about the quality of our environments that we are in all the time. Financial wellness, knowing how to manage expenses and your relationship with money. This can get difficult in graduate school. Matthew Oxie [00:17:00]: Sometimes we have to work a lot. Sometimes graduate school, not even sometimes. A lot of times graduate school is very expensive. And trying to manage living life as a regular adult, quote unquote, and having to pay for graduate school can be very stressful. Occupational wellness, the work you do and how it fulfills you. Matthew Oxie [00:17:25]: Right. Matthew Oxie [00:17:27]: If you're in this point in your academic career, I would hope you're doing something that you love. I love therapy. I went to Graduate school of Central Michigan, Master's degree in clinical mental health counseling. I... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38492300

How Melissa Winter Found Her Path and Built Community in Grad School 10/27/2025

How Melissa Winter Found Her Path and Built Community in Grad School Are you thinking about taking the next step toward a graduate degree, but feeling uncertain about what that journey might look like? On this week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School,” host sits down with , Director of Housing and Dining at the University of Michigan-Flint, to discuss her distinct path through two graduate programs, the bumps along the way, and the keys to sustaining success as a student and professional. Melissa’s story begins with her undergraduate experience at Oakland University, where active campus involvement ignited her interest in higher education as a career. Yet, instead of jumping straight into grad school, she intentionally took a year off to reflect and thoroughly research programs, underscoring the importance of thoughtful decision-making rather than rushing into big commitments. Her path led her to a master’s in Higher Education and Student Personnel at Kent State University—a decision partly influenced by supportive mentors and the overall fit she felt with the campus and cohort. Later, after several years working (including living abroad for eight years!), Melissa pursued a second master’s degree—this time, an online, accelerated MAT (Master of Arts in Teaching) program designed to help her transition careers and relocate to the United States. Even though she ultimately didn’t pursue teaching, the experience provided clarity about her true passion for working with college students. Throughout the episode, a few key themes shine through: Resilience in the Face of Challenge—Melissa candidly shares how she struggled to find community and questioned her choices early in her first grad program. Thanks to thoughtful guidance from faculty, she stuck with it, ultimately finding her stride and forming lasting connections. Adaptability and Time Management—Melissa discusses how graduate school taught her to be tremendously organized, balancing assistantships, coursework, and family. She found creative ways to collaborate with classmates, like turning commutes into productive work sessions, and prioritizing time for studies early in the mornings. The Power of Community and Mentorship—Her advice for prospective grad students? Stay focused on your goals and actively seek out mentors and support networks. Success, she says, isn’t just about high grades—it’s about serving others and helping students thrive. If you’re contemplating grad school, Melissa’s journey is a must-listen reminder that the path isn’t always linear, but with grit, intention, and support, you can chart your own fulfilling course. Tune into the full episode for even more practical insights and inspiration! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Melissa Winter [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love being able to have these conversations with you. I love being able to sit down, talk to you, and be able to take. To find ways that you can take information from these conversations and be able to turn it into something that is going to help you to be able to be even more successful in this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]: No matter if you are at the very beginning, just starting to think about, is graduate school right for me? Or if you applied, maybe you've gotten accepted, maybe you're in graduate school. No matter where you are, there are still things that you can do to be able to be successful one day at a time. And that's why this podcast exists. It's here to be able to help you on this journey that you're on, for you, to be able to learn from other people that have gone before you. You might learn some things that you're already doing, but hopefully you're going to be learning some new things that others have done before you that can help you along the way. Today we got another great guest. Melissa Winter is with us today. And Melissa is the Director of Housing and Dining at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:31]: And she's her own journey that has led her to where she is today. And we're going to be talking about that journey today. So I'm really excited to have her here and to have her share some of her experiences. Melissa, thanks so much for being here today. Melissa Winter [00:01:44]: Yeah, no problem. Happy to help. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: So really excited to have you here. I know that. And I want to start today by turning the clock back in time. I know you did your undergraduate work at Oakland University, where you got a bachelor's degree in history and political science. But then at some point, at some point after being out of school for a little bit of time, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to go back to school and get a degree, a degree in higher education and student personnel. So I'd like to go back in time to that period of time. I want you to take me back to that moment, that moment that you figured out that you wanted to continue your education with a graduate degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:28]: Bring me back to that point, what made you decide graduate school was the right step for you? Melissa Winter [00:02:32]: Well, it was something that I was considering during my undergraduate degree. I was a very involved student on campus and doing lots of different things. And so it was an interest area of mine. But because I was doing a lot on campus, serving in different leadership roles, felt like I needed a year away from school. So I started doing a job search more locally for some experiences and ended up landing a role in a school environment similar to what I ended up going into. But it allowed me the opportunity to take my time and really take a look at institutions, to look at programs, instead of just jumping in without thinking about it. So for me, taking that year off to really make a solid decision helped me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:18]: Now, I know you made the decision to attend Kent State University and to get a degree in higher education student personnel. And some of this decision might have been, like you said, that you were really involved. But I guess talk to me about the decision making of why you decided to go and get a degree in higher education student personnel, but also why Kent State University. Melissa Winter [00:03:41]: So I really believed, and I still do to this day, that students taking responsibility for their education and their own involvement is very important. There's a student development theory that is that talks about this. And so that was something that I really espoused to. So jumping into higher ed for me was something that I wanted to be able to contribute back to other students, to encourage them to get involved, take on opportunities as student leaders on their campuses. So that was part of my decision making process. And then in terms of Kent State, I actually did a pretty wide search for institutions. And I did have my dean of students at my undergrad did attend Kent State. And so he suggested it as an option for me to come consider. Melissa Winter [00:04:25]: And so it was one of the schools that I was considering when I went to visit there. There was a great coordinator that was leading the program at the time. And to be honest, it just felt like the most comfortable for me in terms of the other students that I was interacting with. It just had a great feel for me. And of course, I got an assistantship offer. So it all kind of just lined up and worked out. It was a good program for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:49]: I'm going to delve a little bit into what you learned in that program, but I also know you decided down the road to get another master's degr. And I guess before we pivot too far off, you ended up down the road deciding to get a second master's degree after a number of Years of working. Not everybody would make that choice to go back to school after they get that master's degree. So bring me back to that point and why you made a decision that you wanted to add on and get a second Master's. Melissa Winter [00:05:20]: So I was actually at a point where I was considering either PhD work or doing something additional. And at the time I was living overseas and trying to find a way to return back to the United States. I'd been living overseas at that point for about eight years and learned of a master's program. It was a MAP program to teach essentially from another institution that I had worked at previously. And it was an accelerated program and thought it was something that seemed like a possibility to me and more of a guarantee for a job more easily, which was why I was considering it. And so it was a Master's in arts and teaching program and it allowed me to do it online. And so there was an opportunity for me to do that. And so that's why I jumped at doing that. Melissa Winter [00:06:13]: So I learned some things. I ended up not going into teaching. Like I learned some things about myself from that program. There were aspects that I did enjoy, but realized I did really like the higher ed environment and the college student population, just the 18 to 22, 24 year old student and adult learners beyond, I enjoyed that population more. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:36]: Even so, you had two different experiences going through graduate school, both very different in regard to the experiences themselves. One being in person, on campus, other, the other being remote and accelerated. Talk to me about transitions. Because every student that goes into graduate school, no matter if it's their first, their second, or whatever it may be, has to go through a transition. They have to transition into graduate school and transition through graduate school. And you found success going through graduate school. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the graduate school experiences that you had? Melissa Winter [00:07:21]: So in my first graduate program, I actually did hit a bit of a bump. So after about two months into my program, I was coming off the experience of a very involved undergraduate student doing a lot on campus, that feeling of community. And in graduate school, I was going into my program with an off campus assistantship. So it had a different feel. And not only was it different in terms of, in terms of involvement on campus, but it was taking away some of the activity level that I would have been used to. And my role as a graduate student was helping to teach and train undergraduates. I remember there was a point in my program that I actually had contemplated leaving it. I had a conversation with my. Melissa Winter [00:08:12]: The coordinator of my program said that I was feeling disconnected, essentially. And he guided me through conversation. He wasn't steering me in any way, but he did say, let's get through the semester first before you decide, because this was like late October or something. And he said, let's get through the semester, finish up, and then let's decide what you'd like to do then. And I actually was even considering some other assistantship options that were being offered on the Kent State campus. And ultimately I stuck with the program through that semester. And then I even decided, I'm going to stay with my assistantship. And I ended up staying with both the assistantship and the program for the full two years. Melissa Winter [00:08:55]: So I think sometimes individuals find it easy to just like, oh, this isn't working at all. I'm going to jump ship. It ended up being great advice, and I stuck through it. My next semester went well. I developed great friendships. It just took time to establish those friendships and community pieces that I wasn't. I was in a new environment from where I was before. So it. Melissa Winter [00:09:15]: You have to give yourself a little grace and time to establish that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:18]: So as you came back to your second master's degree, did you also find that there were any bumps in the road or any other issues in regards to the different way of learning or the different type of campus experience that you were going through? Melissa Winter [00:09:32]: Yeah, I mean, learning online, while convenient, it's definitely harder to make the same or develop the same relationships that you would in person. And while I was doing well academically, it was even harder to establish those connections. So you just have to really. If it's something you really want to do, you have to fight to, like, find those connections. And I did to some degree. There were some people who were closer to my age because there were students who were fresh out of undergrad in that program, 22, 23, and then some of us who are in our 40s. So. So you just have to identify people who you can connect with and reach out to, whether. Melissa Winter [00:10:08]: Whatever their ages. But. And there were some of those and some people that I'm still in touch with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:12]: So it sounds like as you were going through these different programs, there definitely were some mindset shifts that you had to go through for yourself to be able to get yourself in a place where you were ready to continue on through the program. Talk to me about those mindset shifts that you had to do for yourself that helped you be successful in the graduate experiences that you had. Melissa Winter [00:10:33]: I Think just trying to stay focused on what it is that you came to school to do or to your program, whatever, stay focused on that end goal. There was actually someone else in my higher ed program who did end up dropping out midway through and kind of like the same time frame that I was having my own struggles. And she ended up kind of going down a different career path because of that. But I think because of that conversation that I had with my coordinator and just kind of reminding me to stick to it and stay focused, I think that helped keep me on target. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]: And I guess staying on target definitely takes some organization. It takes a lot of different putting things in the right place to be able to prepare yourself and to get yourself where you need to be. Talk to me about time management, especially as a working professional, as a person going through and having an assistantship for your first graduate program, but then having full time work for your second. How did you manage all of that? How did you balance school, work, family, personal responsibilities, but also the time that it took for you to be able to do the best that you wanted to do. Melissa Winter [00:11:47]: Certainly in the first program, I would say like the first month or so it took me again a little bit of adjustment. I was used to, I don't want to say taking it easy, but I didn't need to be as organized in my undergraduate degree. And I found myself a couple times where I would work on a paper and I would get some feedback that I knew it wasn't my best work because I had waited and delayed things a bit. But in getting things refocused, managing things, it just was a learning experience, I would say the first month or two, and then realized, you know what? I can do a better job than this. Leaning on people for support, getting feedback from some colleagues. So there was a few of us in grad school that we were commuting down from Cleveland to Kent, which was like a 45, 50 minute drive. And so we would have conversations in the car about our whatever assignments or something that we were working on. It was a great support to get through things, not only just like throwing ideas off one another, but we would kind of go through and read off notes and talk about things as we were like driving down, back and forth. Melissa Winter [00:12:50]: So that was really helpful too. We were trying to use the most of our time, since we were all sitting in the car together anyways, to try to take advantage of that. That was something that was really helpful in the second degree. I just tried to mold out the time that would work best for me. I would get up early in the morning to do work before anyone got up. Let's say it was a Saturday morning. Instead of waiting until 8 or 9 o', clock, I would be getting up at like 6:30 and start getting some work done. Because I knew I had at that time like a four year old and I would have to take some time with him too. Melissa Winter [00:13:21]: So you just have to carve the time out of your schedule to make it happen. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:25]: You know, graduate school definitely changes you in many different ways and it also changes the way that you do things, the way that you think, work and approach things. So as you think back to your graduate school experiences, how did graduate school change the way that you think, work or approach problems? Melissa Winter [00:13:44]: I definitely looked at things from certainly more of a professional perspective than from a student mindset. That was one thing that changed. But also in collecting information, I think that that's something that helps me form a decision on something, especially if it's a bigger decision. Obviously when you're working on some graduate school paper or project, you are collect information. And that was a piece that I took into my professional roles as well, like collecting information before you make a decision in some cases and then really relying on some theory in some cases to back up some of your practices that you're doing just to kind of reinforce, you know what, this is the correct way to go. Because these, these are some practices that have happened from others in the past. Those are two key pieces that I think were pretty important as you think. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:34]: Back to graduate school and the graduate school experiences that you had as you were going through the program and you think back to that period of time. How did you define success for yourself while you were in your programs? And how has this definition changed over the years? Melissa Winter [00:14:54]: I think the traditional success is if you got an A on the project or the paper, like hey, you got a 4.0 like that success or something high mark to show that you did well on something. However, I think in obviously in a professional role, success is when you're able to serve students. In this case, when student you see the success of others, whether it's they're getting their degree or they have done a great program on campus, or you have helped encourage and increase student enrollment on your campus, increase student satisfaction. There's lots of pieces that you can help impact. There was great attendance at an event and not just the attendance piece, but there was an overall positive feeling by that event happening. So I think it's more about seeing the success of others versus your own success. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:50]: So as you Think about other people, other students that are considering graduate school in the future, and you think back to your own graduate education. What are some tips that you might offer others that are considering graduating an education that would help them find success sooner? Melissa Winter [00:16:06]: I already mentioned this, but one thing is just keep your eyes on the prize, so to speak. Like, stay focused on what you want to do, but also to reach out to people around you. Identify a mentor or someone who can help guide you when you're facing those moments when... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38492385

Balancing Work, Family, and Graduate School: Amy Hovey’s Success Story 10/20/2025

Balancing Work, Family, and Graduate School: Amy Hovey’s Success Story This week’s episode of Victors in Grad School features an insightful conversation between and , CEO and Executive Director of the Michigan State Housing Development Authority. Amy shares her unique journey back to graduate education and offers invaluable advice for anyone considering elevating their career with an advanced degree. Amy's story is one that resonates with working professionals, parents, and lifelong learners alike. After graduating from Alma College, Amy dove into her career—first in the for-profit sector, later discovering her true passion in nonprofit work. She candidly reveals the practical considerations many face: “I knew I wanted to go to graduate school right after undergrad, but I was hesitant because I didn’t have any money… I needed to work, and I’m glad I did it that way.” Her decision to pursue a Master of Public Administration at the University of Michigan-Flint was guided by her desire to move into leadership roles within the nonprofit sector. Amy’s experience is a testament to the idea that it’s never too late to return to the classroom. She emphasizes flexibility—not just in the structure of graduate programs, but in balancing life’s many demands. By starting with one evening class while raising four children and working full time, Amy illustrates how setting manageable goals and seeking support can make graduate school an attainable reality. One of the episode’s standout themes is the value of diverse perspectives. Amy describes the richness of conversations with peers from varied backgrounds: “We were all from different types of backgrounds… it really helped diversify my thinking.” She also notes how her studies deepened her understanding of complex government programs, which now directly inform her role in public administration. Amy’s advice for prospective graduate students is both encouraging and practical: don’t be afraid to work first, take your time, and don’t hesitate to ask about program flexibility. “It’s not a one size fit all… Ask the questions.” Her experience shows how graduate education can be crafted around your life, not the other way around. Whether you’re contemplating a return to school, navigating the balance of work, family, and personal growth, or seeking fresh inspiration, don’t miss this uplifting episode. Tune in to hear Amy’s full story and gather practical insights that could help shape your own graduate journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to talk to you about this journey that you're on. And it truly is a journey every individual that goes through graduate school is thinking about. Graduate school, is getting ready to graduate from graduate school, is going through their own personal journey, and every one of those journeys is going to be a little bit unique. But there are things that you can do today that will help you to be able to help yourself to find success in this journey, and that's why this podcast exists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]: I every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can talk to you about the experience that they went through going through their own graduate school journey. So today we have another great guest with us. Amy Hovey is with us, and Amy is the CEO and executive director of the Michigan State Housing Development Authority. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own journey and have her share that with you. Amy, thanks so much for being here today. Amy Hovey [00:01:25]: Yes, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:27]: Well, I'm really looking forward to talking with you today as well. And I know a while back you ended. You did your bachelor's degree at Alma College, and then you went off. You went off and you started working, started having a lot of different experiences that allowed for you to be able to build upon your undergraduate degree. But at some point, at some point in that work journey, you identified for yourself that you wanted to go further in your education. Can you take me back in time? Take me back to that point in time where you said to yourself, I've got to do this. What was it? And what made you decide that graduate school was the next step? Amy Hovey [00:02:08]: Yeah, so I'm going to say I knew I wanted to go to graduate school right after I graduated from undergrad, but I was hesitant because I didn't have any money. Right. I had already accumulated debt from undergrad, felt like, you know what? I need to work, and I'm glad I did it that way. So I was working and went from for profit to the nonprofit world, which, quite honestly, I just didn't know, as I think most undergrads don't really know the different types of careers that are out there until you get out into the world. And so I found myself loving working for nonprofits. And at that point I realized if I wanted to continue to not just work for nonprofits, but lead nonprofits, I should look at continuing my education. And I actually got an email from U of M Flint that said, come and to our open house for graduate programs. And I thought, huh, Now I never went to that open house, but I still clicked on the links and I looked at the type of programs that were available because I was working in the city of Flint, right in downtown, looked at U of M's campus all the time. Amy Hovey [00:03:22]: You know, had had used the library before for events. And so I was familiar and comfortable there. And I noticed they had a Master's of Public administration where you could do an emphasis in nonprofit management. And so I set up a meeting and went and talked to an advisor and said, listen, you know, I'm interested in this program. I can't go full time. I had four children and I was working full time and needed to continue to work full time, but I really wanted to do this degree. And they said that was okay. I didn't have to graduate in two years. Amy Hovey [00:03:58]: Even though the typical program outline was to get your master's in two years, I could actually take longer than that. And so I said, why not? Let's give it a try. And I applied and started that December. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:11]: Now, as I mentioned, you had been out of school for a little bit of time. So as you transition back into school, it is a transition. There are definite things that you have to do to be able to get back into that school mode and get your mind back into that school mode in many different ways. Talk to me about the mindset shifts that you had to do to be able to set yourself up for success in that graduate school journey. Amy Hovey [00:04:38]: Well, I was really excited. I'm like one of those people, I love school. So I was excited to get back into the classroom. And that was still when we purchased books and you had like a real actual book. And I was excited about getting my student ID with my picture on it. And. And so for me, it was an. It was an exciting time. Amy Hovey [00:04:57]: I was a little hesitant on how I would balance and make time for my studies. So I started with just one class. So I signed up for a single class. It was in the evening and it was one night a week, right. So it was a long class. It was like a three hour block, I think, but it was just one night a week. And I thought, well, I can do one night a week. And I had to, I think, reprioritize how I spent my downtime. Amy Hovey [00:05:20]: Right. And so instead of reading books for pleasure, you know, you start reading your homework. Right. Your textbook. You know, I traveled for work a lot during the time I was getting my degree, so I spent a lot of time on airplanes and I wrote my papers. Right. And so you just use the time that you have for school rather than for other things that might take up your time. And for me, it was not a hard shift, but it was something I was really dedicated to making happen. Amy Hovey [00:05:53]: I also really appreciated being able to just take one class and the flexibility in that. It worked not only for my time schedule, but it worked for my budget to be able to really spread out the cost of grad school and the impact on my family's daily expenses. So. So that was really helpful for me as well. I also just. I love the diversity of the class, the different types of students that were in my classes. You know, I was a Master's of Public Administration, so we had folks that worked for the government, we had folks that work for nonprofits, people who were fresh out of college, those that, like me, were returning. We had people who are like retired police officers that were coming back to get their degrees. Amy Hovey [00:06:44]: And so the conversations were very rich. It was just a great experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:50]: Now, you talked a little bit about that work life balance, and with kids and with a job and balancing all of that. Throughout the entire graduate program, there had to have been some things that you had to set into motion for yourself to be able to balance all of that for yourself and for your family. Talk to me about that. And what were some of those building blocks that you had to put in place to be able to help you to balance all of those different aspects that would allow for you to be able to get through the program to graduation? Amy Hovey [00:07:21]: Yeah, I mean, I think primarily as a working mother, I had to make sure that I had childcare. And I'm very lucky. I married and my husband was able to be with the kids in the evenings. As I mentioned, I really took it slow so that I didn't feel like I was missing out on time with my children by doing just a single class a day. So I think that was really helpful, me in balancing being able to do all the things that were a priority for me and for my family. Again, I was lucky. Not everyone has childcare so readily available, but for me, that was like the number one priority was being able to make sure that my kids were cared for. And that allowed me to be Able to come and take classes. Amy Hovey [00:08:04]: I think the other thing that really struck me was the fact that this was really adding to my work experience, right. And I found the professors at U of M Flint were very flexible. So the program allowed for me to take a couple classes from another school and bring those credits in. And at the time, all of the pro program was in person, right? Every class was in person. But because it allowed me to get approval to bring in a couple additional classes, I was able to look at other universities that had online classes, get preapproval to take those classes. And so I was able to take two classes online from another university and count them towards my graduating credits at U of M Flint. Super helpful to me during a period where my life got very busy and I could not afford that three hours solid an evening, once a week. So that flexibility was helpful to me in being able to balance. Amy Hovey [00:09:10]: I also took an independent study. So one of the professors connected with me allowed me to take an independent study, which was really great. That was very flexible. It was really at my own pace and having meetings with my professor and. And that allowed me to then that semester do two classes. So, you know, I was able to double up, which allowed me to graduate just a little bit faster than taking one class per. So I found it was a wonderful program. And anytime I had an issue with anything being able to sit down and talk to folks, the professors were easy to work with. Amy Hovey [00:09:47]: The administrators of the deans of the college. It's very easy to work with, to find solutions to make that balance work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:55]: Now you also, when you're going through graduate school, there are things that you learn inside the classroom, that hard knowledge that they want to make sure that you leave the classroom with. But there's a lot of things that you learn outside of the classroom as well, whether it be from other students, other individuals at the university itself, other contacts, etc. What was the most valuable thing you feel that you learned outside the classroom during graduate school? Amy Hovey [00:10:23]: Well, that's an interesting question. I mentioned that my classes were full with very diverse students, right. We were all different. We were all from different types of backgrounds. And so we were able to have conversations and relate our lives and our work experiences differently. And it really helped diversify my thinking. I will tell you that, you know, we tend to live in our own boxes and we're impacted by how our lives live and things that impact our lives. But able to listen and connect with people that are different, that have different experiences, help me look at things completely differently, whether it's how nonprofits are ran and the use of those nonprofits, how it is to balance our time and how other people balance our time, how we read and interpret readings completely differently, really helped me to be much more open minded, and it helped me be better at my current job and being able to do outreach and connect and understand folks within the Flint community as a whole, which was really important to the work I was doing at the time. Amy Hovey [00:11:32]: I will also say, even though you didn't ask the question yet, Chris, that I learned a lot in the classroom that impacted my work life and how I looked at the things I worked with. So being from a nonprofit, I had worked with the government a lot. Not in government at the time, but outside government. And I was always very frustrated with the bureaucracy, all the regulations, how slow things go, and, you know, had very little patience for that. But in the classes I took through the Master's of Public Administration program, I learned why there are so many regulations around many of the government programs, how those evolved, the purpose of. Of those regulations. And it gave me a different mindset and some patience in dealing with the governmental entities and programs that I was working with at the time, which was super helpful. So I remember reading a book and going, oh, this is why they do what they do. Amy Hovey [00:12:34]: They're not just trying to be painful and make it difficult to use these programs. There's actually 30, 40, 50 years of influence on these programs is how they got where they are today. And I actually wrote a paper on the Community Development Block Grant program when I was in grad school, and it was an analysis of the history of the program and how I might make that program better, really forcing me to think analytically. And now I find myself working and leading the state agency that administers those same, same CDBG programs from a state level. So, I mean, you really can't get more connected than that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:15]: I think that is great because, I mean, having those opportunities to be able to really connect the neurons. Right. And being able to see how one thing really equates to the next can lead you in so many different directions. Now, as you think about, think back to the experience that you had in graduate school and you think to what you're doing today. Talk to me about how you feel that your graduate school experience impacted what you're doing today and how you pull from that experience on a daily basis. Amy Hovey [00:13:50]: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I don't think I would be in my position today without having that degree on my resume. It is meaningful that being in public Administration was important to me enough that I took the time to get a degree and some additional learning in that area. And I think that showed, you know, the folks that hired me that this line of work is important and that I took the time to learn. I did not know when I took this program that I would be leaving the nonprofit world and moving into government. So I was very fortunate to me that this master's program really covered both nonprofit and government work and public authority work. So it really got me to where I am today. That being said, it also, in my current role, really taught me a lot about the history of these programs, what they mean, how as a public official, I have responsibilities to the public and to listening to the public, as well as taking utmost care of taxpayer dollars, which a lot of these books talk about the history of programs, how they're appropriated and why they're appropriated. And so it really gave me a sense of importance of what the role the government should be playing and the intended uses of the programs that I administer today. Amy Hovey [00:15:16]: So it couldn't be any more closely related to my learning in grad school, to my job today than it is. Right. There's direction. Connect there. And I'm really, really appreciative for the learning I did at U of M. Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:29]: As you think about your graduate school experience, what's something that you wish that someone had told you before you started graduate school? Amy Hovey [00:15:37]: I think it's important to work first. And I know I said the only reason I worked first was because I didn't have funding to do it, which is the truth. But lucky for me, it's really important, in my opinion, to have some work experience, because how I approach grad school was totally, totally different than I approached undergrad. Right. Like, this was important learning for me. I was much more engaged in learning in grad school than I was in undergrad, even though I graduated with honors from both. So it wasn't about getting the good grades, but it was really about being able to do a deeper level of analytical thinking and understanding the application of what you're learning to, to what you do day to day in your career. I don't think I made that connection on undergrad, but I certainly did in grad school. Amy Hovey [00:16:30]: So one of the things that I wish I would have known and been less worried about was it's great to work a little bit before you go to grad school. It also helped me refine the type of program I wanted. Had I went right after, I probably would have went into an MBA program, which would have been fine. I'm sure I would have had a great learning experience experience in an MBA program, but it wouldn't have been aligned to where my passion was because I didn't know what my passion was going to be when I was 21 and first graduated from undergraduate school. So I think it's important. And something I learned was, it's not bad. It's actually great to get a little work experience under your belt before you return to grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]: Finally, as you look back on your own graduate school experience and you think about others, others that are thinking about graduate school. And you've given some tips already. But what are, what are some additional tips that you might want to offer others that are considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Amy Hovey [00:17:27]: Yeah, I mean, I think just do it. Just do it. If you have a passion for learning, there are so many ways in which you can approach graduate school. It's not a one size fit all. If you're worried about being able to fit it within your schedule or within your financial budget, sit down with the university, go through what those options may look like and go on a plan that does work for you. U of M Flint was so flexible when I was there... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38491575

Finding Success Amidst the Twists and Turns of Graduate School With Hilary Murmers 10/13/2025

Finding Success Amidst the Twists and Turns of Graduate School With Hilary Murmers The path to and through graduate school is rarely a straight line, and in a recent episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, , LGBTQIA Coordinator at the University of Michigan, Flint, shares her remarkable journey—a testament to resilience, clarity of purpose, and the power of community. Hosted by , the episode begins by exploring Hilary’s academic background. After graduating from the University of Rochester with a Bachelor of Arts in English and Women’s Studies, Hilary faced early rejection in her first attempt to enter PhD programs in gender studies. Instead of feeling defeated, she embraced diverse work experiences, which led her to a pivotal summer at Girls Leadership, a camp focused on the social-emotional development of girls and gender-diverse youth. It was there, surrounded by important questions about identity and sexuality and feeling both unprepared and excited, that Hilary found her next calling: becoming a sex educator. “I started doing research in how does someone become a sex educator?... That led me to finding the graduate program I ended up in at Widener University.” Widener’s unique master’s program in human sexuality matched both her interests and her need for a queer-affirming, inclusive environment—a critical consideration she encourages other queer students to weigh when choosing programs. Hilary’s graduate school experience included enormous challenges. Just as she was finding her stride, she was diagnosed with a rare cancer, forcing her to take medical leave and pause her studies. Even after recovery, she faced additional bumps: shifting program structures, a new student cohort, and the abrupt move to virtual instruction during the COVID-19 pandemic. “It felt uncomfortable, it felt bumpy... there were a lot of bumps and transitions that made it uncomfortable, and a lot of decision points of ‘do I keep going?’” Through it all, Hilary credits her faculty advisor and perseverance for helping her navigate the many pivots. She also highlights the importance of clarity—knowing her “why” helped her persist: “As we face those bumps, we have to have some motivation to keep going... Graduate school can be fun, but it can also be really hard.” This episode is a must-listen for anyone considering grad school, especially those facing uncertainty or adversity. Hilary’s story reminds us that while the journey may be unpredictable, support, adaptability, and a clear sense of purpose can see you through to your goals. Tune in to the full episode to hear more about Hilary’s inspiring path—and let it fuel your own journey through graduate school! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find. Hilary Murmers [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week, as we always are, talking about your journey, your journey toward graduate school, through graduate school, beyond graduate school. Because it is so important to be able to look at all aspects of ways in which you can be successful. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to identify ways in which you can find success sooner. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you to understand the journey that they went on, to help you better have some tools for your toolbox to understand what they went through, because what they went through might provide you with some understanding of things that you could go through, but also some things that you can prepare for as you're thinking about the future. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]: So I'm really excited to be able to have our guest today. Hilary Murmurs is with us today, and Hilary is the LGBTQIA coordinator at the University of Michigan, Flint. And she has her own journey, and she's had her own journey, and I'm really excited to be able to talk with her about her journey, to have her share that with you. Hillary, thanks so much for being here today. Hilary Murmers [00:01:35]: Yeah, thanks for having me, Chris. I'm happy to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]: Now, I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Rochester, where you were working on that Bachelor of Arts in English and Women's Studies, and then you went off, you went off, you had got some experiences, and at some point you decided to continue on, continue on to get that master's degree. Can you take me back in time to that point in your life and what was going through your head as you made that choice that you were going to go to graduate school, and why was it the right time? Hilary Murmers [00:02:06]: Yeah, that's a great question. I tried to go to graduate school before. I ultimately did when I was graduating with my bachelor's in English and Gender Studies. I had applied to some PhD programs in gender studies and didn't get into a single one, which is interesting now. Like, I do the work I'm doing in higher ed, but it was kind of failed first attempt. And so I took a few years and worked and had a lot of different experiences. And then I had one summer where I worked at a summer camp called Girls Leadership. That's all about social emotional development and girls and gender diverse young people and being openly queer. Hilary Murmers [00:02:47]: In that space, I was receiving a lot of questions about identities and sexuality, safer sex that I frankly felt totally unprepared to answer. But I was really excited by. I was really like, this is cool and interesting to me. And so I started doing research in how does someone become a sex educator? And what do careers in sex and sexuality education look like? And that led me to finding the graduate program I ended up in at Widener University. It's a really unique master's degree in human sexuality. It's one of the only, like, specifically human sexuality degrees in the country. And at the time, I also had a full time job that had some tuition benefits that I could take to another institution. I was working at my alma mater at University of Rochester. Hilary Murmers [00:03:40]: And so I was like, let's go. I'm going to apply to graduate school and become a sex educator. So, yeah, I applied in spring of 2016 and started in fall of 2016. So three years after I graduated with my bachelor's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:54]: Talk to me a little bit about what you were just talking about, because you were talking about that there definitely were some things that you had to consider being queer and thinking about graduate school where you fit and what was the right fit in that regard. I know you ended up at Widener, but talk to me about as someone entering into a graduate space like that and being queer, as you mentioned, what were some of the things that you had to truly consider for yourself in regards to safety, in regards to other aspects that you were looking for in a graduate program that might help others that might be queer as well, that they might need to think about in their own journey. Hilary Murmers [00:04:33]: I think there's ways in which the institution that I went to was not the biggest question for me. Widener itself, like, is not an institution that I have a lot of attachment to, but for me, it was really dialing down into finding the program that felt like I would be getting the education that I needed and that it was a space where there were lots of queer and trans people, where there were conversations about queer and trans identities, like, baked into the program. It was a place where, like, when I looked at the materials online, frankly, I saw people who looked like me and I felt like it was a place where I could fit in. Part of my application experience was also doing a interview. So I got to go to campus and meet some current students and meet faculty members and just felt a really strong connection of this. Feels Like a place where I can be safe. I think it's also really important to name that I am white, I am cisgender. I have these other privileged identities that make safety less of an issue for me than for others in the queer community. Hilary Murmers [00:05:47]: But yeah, for me it was really about dialing into like this is exactly the thing I want to study and these are the people I want to study it with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:56]: You know, every student as they go into graduate school, go through some transitions, academic transitions, psychological transitions, social transitions. And as you transition in, you go through some transitions. But then as you're going through those transitions as well as you learn more and as you connect or disconnect, talk to me about those transitions for you. And what did you have to do as you transitioned into graduate school and also what did you have to do as you went through graduate school to set yourself up for success and maintain that success throughout the graduate school program? Hilary Murmers [00:06:32]: Yeah, so I had a bumpy ride through graduate school due to life circumstances. So when I started my program in fall of 2016, I had a full time job in Rochester, New York. And the way the program was structured is that you would spend one weekend a month in person. Widener is outside of Philly. So I was working full time during the week and then one weekend a month going down to Philly for a full weekend of classes and then doing homework in the evening or trying to get up at like 5:30 in the morning to figure out, be able to do my classwork. But my first year was maybe the easiest because of the things that came after. So I had a really rare and unexpected cancer diagnosis after completing my first year in graduate school. So in the summer of 2017, I was diagnosed with a rare cancer called osteosarcoma. Hilary Murmers [00:07:33]: And I had no choice but to put everything on pause. I took a medical leave from my graduate program. I stopped working and only focused on my cancer treatment for a full calendar year. And I'm very happy and lucky to be in good health now so many years later. And then I took also a full year to recover from that experience, physically, emotionally. I bopped around and slept on my friends couches all over the country. I lived with my brother and took care of my baby niece for a few months of that. But yeah, I really kind of had to take back control. Hilary Murmers [00:08:12]: What I think when someone has a really severe medical experience, you lose a lot of control. So I spent my gap year, I called it, just being in control of my decisions. So finally in fall of 2019, I felt ready to go back to school to restart my program. But as happens, the program had really done some big shifts internally while I was away. So obviously there was a whole new cohort of students that I was working with who became my peers. But also the course requirements were different and some of the courses I had already taken were no longer offered. Just like that adjustment that happens right now. I work in higher ed. Hilary Murmers [00:08:56]: I see it happening all the time of programs shifting. So I ended up having to work really closely with my faculty advisor to figure out how to apply the courses I had and stay on the new track that they had developed in order to get back on track, basically and try to complete my master's degree. So it took me, in the end, three years of coursework and five years total to complete my master's degree in human sexuality. Also within that time was the COVID lockdowns. So the program shifted from everyone traveling, many people from like all over the Eastern seaboard for a weekend of in person class in Philadelphia, which was really how the program was conceptualized, was that like people spend their weekend in these intensive courses to all of a sudden we're virtual and trying to do a. You know, I think our Saturday schedule was usually 9 to 6, and then Sunday was 10 to 4. Trying to translate that into the virtual format was really challenging, I think, for faculty and students going through it. So, yeah, when I started back in 2019, it felt uncomfortable, it felt bumpy, it felt like, oof. Hilary Murmers [00:10:12]: Because it didn't feel easy to come back in. I had wanted it to feel like smooth and easy. And I encountered all these just logistical challenges of figuring out my course planning and then going fully remote was not the experience I think anyone wanted at that time. So, yeah, I ended up finishing in spring of 2021, fully remotely. Some of the students who had become my new peer cohort and I did a sisterhood of the traveling cap and gown and we like mailed one cap and gown all over to each other and took graduation photos. So, yeah, it was wild. There were a lot of bumps and like you said, Chris, transitions that made it uncomfortable and that there's a of decision points of like, do I keep going? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:56]: That can definitely be challenging. And I. I've said before, and I'll say it again, not every graduate school experience is going to go smoothly. There may be bumps in the road, there may be pivots that you have to make, just like you heard Hillary say. And what I am hearing Hillary say though, is that don't let those bumps stop you from achieving the goals that you've achieved for yourself, that you might have to pivot, you might have to do things in a little bit different way, but continue to push forward, continue to work toward the goal and work with your advisors, work with the faculty and identify other ways to do it, because there may be other ways that you can do it in the end. Hilary Murmers [00:11:38]: Yeah, absolutely. My faculty advisor was a fabulous support to get me through those bumpy transitions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:44]: As I know that initially you said that you had looked at a PhD program, and then you ended up in a master's program. If you had to do it all over again, would you choose the same. The same program or path and why? Why or why not? Hilary Murmers [00:11:55]: That's a great question. You know, the PhD programs I was initially interested were like PhDs in gender studies, with the goal of becoming a faculty member, which now, knowing what I know about higher education, and also having friends who did go through a PhD and really, frankly struggled to find work at all or find work that sustains them, I feel really grateful that my PhD in the humanities didn't work out. It works for some people. And those tenured faculty positions for humanities PhDs are very, very few in number. So for me, my master's in human sexuality has served me really well. I'm able to do this work that is really meaningful to me. And I'm working in the field of higher education in a very different way than when I was 21 and graduating from college. I. Hilary Murmers [00:12:52]: I would be. But I love it. And so, yeah, I would do the same thing. I would love to ease over some of those bumps, but we don't get that choice. I would do the same thing. I'm grateful that I didn't get in during my first graduate application attempt and that life took me another way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:08]: So with all of the ups and downs and the kind of pivots that you had to go through, you definitely had to do a lot of balancing, especially as you were going into the medical diagnosis and starting and then having to take that break. And a lot of students do have to figure out what that balance is, the balance between school, work, family, personal responsibilities, whatever it might be. So talk to me about balance and what you had to do to be able to find that optimal balance as you were going through that graduate program. Hilary Murmers [00:13:39]: Yeah, you know, I think that during my first year of grad school, when I was working full time and going to graduate school part time, that was really challenging to find the balance of just. There are only so many hours in the day, and I have to Spend a good chunk of those hours asleep. So that was a really hard year to figure out. Like, when in the world do you do all this coursework? And sometimes it was like during my lunch hour at work that would like, you know, quietly bleed over into the hour past my lunch hour if I could swing it. And, you know, I'm not a person. I still don't have kids. I didn't have kids. I didn't have major caregiving responsibilities. Hilary Murmers [00:14:22]: So, yeah, for me, the balance was always like, internal of, like, how do I manage being a worker and a student? And then when I returned to graduate school, I was also working with some new disabilities from my cancer experience. I had a. I have a mobility disability now. I am hard of hearing now. And so also finding. And just my capacity was a lot lower than it was before I had a cancer experience. So when I returned to graduate school, I wasn't working. I was just in graduate school and I had home responsibilities. Hilary Murmers [00:15:01]: But the balance at that point became like, how do I manage taking care of myself and doing school? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:08]: I really appreciate you sharing that. And I think every one of us as we go through our graduate school experience, we have to find what that is for ourselves. And I guess with the experience that you had in looking at your own graduate school experience, and it was a. It was different than other students have had, but it could be similar in many ways for some as well. As you think about the experience that you had and how it changed you and who you are today, how do you feel that your graduate school experience changed the way that you think work or approach problems? Hilary Murmers [00:15:50]: I think that I gained a lot more compassion for bumps in the road for myself and for everyone. I had been a totally traditional college student. I was not a person who really struggled in school. And so, yeah, having this big interruption really helped me see and experience the path winds and we don't know what's coming around the corner. And I think I bring that to every part of my work and life now. Like, I do a lot of, like, one on one work with LGBTQ students at U of M Flint who are navigating all kinds of life challenges. And there's a way in which part of what we have to do is, like, just keep going through it. Even if we can't see what's around that corner. Hilary Murmers [00:16:39]: We have to keep taking the next step to find out and to be able to navigate as we reach those turns. So, yeah, just a lot more compassion for, like, sometimes hits the fan and then you have to clean it all. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:51]: Up as you think about other individuals that are thinking about graduate school and you think back to your own graduate school experience and what you went through. And talking to those individuals that are thinking about graduate school, what are some pieces of advice that you would offer them that would help them to find success sooner? Hilary Murmers [00:17:11]: I would encourage folks to get really clear on your goals for graduate school. What are you hoping to achieve? For me going in, I wanted to become a sex educator. The other side of it. I'm working in higher ed in an adjacent way to the field of sex education. But my goal of getting to have conversations with young people about identities and sexuality and gender is present through it all. And as we face those bumps, we have to have some motivation to keep going. Some driving force of this is why this matters. Graduate school can be fun, but it can also be really hard. Hilary Murmers [00:17:51]: And so having a lot of clarity internally about this is why... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38491405

How to Work Smarter, Not Harder, in Graduate School With the SmartPhD System 10/06/2025

How to Work Smarter, Not Harder, in Graduate School With the SmartPhD System Graduate school is often described as a journey—one filled with peaks of accomplishment and valleys of self-doubt. This week’s "Victors in Grad School" episode with is a must-listen for anyone navigating the challenges of advanced study, or even just considering taking the leap into grad school. Hosted by , the conversation delves deep into the realities of pursuing a graduate degree across different countries and cultures, and the unique obstacles that arise, especially when juggling family, working in a second language, and adjusting to new academic systems. Dr. Juarez shares her own candid story, from earning scholarships and moving continents to facing the all-too-common “imposter syndrome” and the myth that working harder is always the answer. One of the most powerful takeaways from Dr. Juarez is that success in graduate school is not solely about relentless effort. Instead, it’s about working smarter—not harder—by building holistic routines that protect your wellbeing, energy, and focus. Dr. Juarez’s personal wake-up call came when her all-in approach to her PhD left her physically and mentally exhausted. Recognizing the unsustainable pace, she began to reimagine her process, experimenting with practical strategies like the Pomodoro technique for focused productivity, intentional breaks, and prioritizing self-care. These experiences led her to develop the , a framework that supports students on key dimensions: self-care, mindset, attainable goals, reflection, time management, planning, and positive habits. Whether you’re struggling with motivation, managing multiple responsibilities, or hitting a productivity wall, Dr. Juarez’s system offers a toolkit for making consistent, meaningful progress. The episode also touches on an often-overlooked aspect of the PhD journey—reconnecting with your original passion. Keeping sight of your purpose can help reignite motivation during tough times. Dr. Juarez encourages listeners to regularly reflect on their “why” and embrace the fullness of their journey, setbacks and all. If you’re on the verge of giving up or simply searching for ways to be more effective and balanced, this conversation is for you. Dr. Juarez’s insights and empathy remind us that you’re not alone and that small shifts can lead to significant change—not just in grad school, but throughout your career. Tune in to this episode for practical advice, reassurance, and the inspiration to build your own sustainable system for success in graduate school and beyond! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it is a journey. No matter if you are just starting to think about graduate school, maybe you've applied and gotten accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:32]: No matter where you are, there are things that you can do at every step of the journey that can help you to be successful in that overall journey. That's why this podcast exists. It is here to help you to be able to identify maybe some stumbling blocks, maybe some things along the way that you can do, to be able to help yourself to prepare yourself well, or find things that you can do, some tools for your toolbox that will help you to be able to have that smooth sailing as you go through graduate school. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you to see things a little bit differently and also think about things in a little bit of a different way. Today we've got another great guest. Dr. Lucia Juarez is with us today and Lucia has a very interesting journey and we're going to be talking about her own educational journey, but also a program that she started called SmartPhD that is helping individuals that are going for that PhD to do things smarter and to really think about what they're doing to be able to have that positive, successful experience through the PhD. I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Lucia, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:01:44]: Hi, Chris, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here because I think one of the things I would love to share with you today is how when I was doing my own PhD, I thought the only way to progress was by working harder and harder. And that really affected me. It almost broke me. So one of the things that I really want to share today is how I managed to find my way around creating a system. As you said, that work helping me and is helping others to finish the dissertation faster without compromising their well being, which is so important. It's becoming more and more important to protect that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]: Well, before we jump into the SmartPhD program, because I really want to delve into that, I want to learn a little bit about your own journey because I know you did Your undergraduate work in Argentina, because you are from Argentina. That's not where you live now. We'll have some spoilers here in just a little bit of where she lives now, but you started in Argentina, and at some point in that journey, I know that you had an opportunity or you started to think about the next steps. So you were getting that bachelor's degree, and at some point you said, I want to keep going. Bring me back to that point. And what made you decide that going to graduate school was the next step? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:02:56]: Thanks, Chris. I think, to be honest, I was always curious about teaching and researching, even before finishing my undergraduate studies. So I started doing, like, advanced courses. I was very interested in heritage conservation, and I got a scholarship as soon as I finished. So I finished in December, in January, applied for a scholarship, and in April, I was traveling to Spain to do my master's degree, and I really, really loved it. And I lived in Spain. I never actually came back home after that. So it's been more than 20 years of that. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:03:31]: And years after that, I got a scholarship to do my PhD. Related with heritage conservation as well was more like industrial heritage. I wanted to work something related with Scottish architecture and the connection with Argentina. So Scott, seems like the right place. And I got the scholarship to do it here in Edinburgh University, and I've been here since then. I have two Scottish boys. So staying here? No, I don't know for how long, but I stay here for now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:00]: So talk to me a little bit about that transition, because every person goes through transitions, and now you went through some big transitions, going from one country to another country to a further country, going from different language models to different ways of teaching. What did you have to do as you were transitioning from your undergrad to your master's, from your master's to working, from working back into your PhD. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to remain successful through that entire educational journey? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:04:34]: I think it's successful. Sometimes it feels like a big word, Chris. I know because I've been listening some of your previous podcasts as well. There are many people in the academic world that suffer from imposter syndrome. Or we have this thing about not feeling good enough, academic enough. For me, my English was never enough. Actually, I was doubting. I am good enough in my English to be in podcast like this one, you know, because you feel like maybe because of my accent, will people really understand when I'm talking? Like, we have so many doubts. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:05:06]: And I was listening to some of your previous guests, I think it was Dr. Julie Snyder. She was saying something about transitions as you were saying. And she was saying like it wasn't a smart decision to stay in the campus. She was from the master to the PhD to make things easier. I think we want to look at things to make things easier for us. That's the smart way to do. But not always you have the option if you have a scholarship, you take it or you don't take it. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:05:37]: And, and for me, as you said before in another country, in another language, another way of doing without family support, without friends, I was like, at least I came here with my husband and that was nice company to have. And you don't feel that you need to start everything from scratch. But it was a big challenge. So when you were saying about being successful, I think sometimes it's not so linear. So there is a lot of ups and downs. And I think what we tried to do is these downs not to be going so deep. What happened to me, I think I was so deep that I needed to make a change. So when I was there at the beginning, I thought that working harder was the only option. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:06:25]: It was because to that challenges that I was saying about being in another country, writing your dissertation in another language, trying to adapt. I also had my first baby in the middle of the way. So it was super challenging. And I don't think I can talk about being successful until now. I can see in perspective because to be honest, I wasn't feeling that way at all. I was self doubting myself. I have this feeling that I wasn't good enough for my dissertation and I wasn't good enough to be a mom. It was really, really tough. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:07:03]: So I thought the only way to be success stressful was by working harder. And the problem was I was taking. So my days weren't really productive. So I started taking hours from the night and I wasn't resting at the beginning I thought, well, it is what it is, I need to do it. There is, there is no other way. But I ended up with there was a point I couldn't move forward. I had a sciatica problem, I couldn't move meaning I couldn't do much work on my dissertation. And also this is heartbroken. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:07:36]: I couldn't play with my baby. And that thing that you want you to do, that is progress in your dissertation, you need to stop everything because you cannot progress at all. I was having migraines. I developed tendinitis in my hand for working with a mouse for such a Long hours. So I went to see the gp, the doctor here, and he said, you need to stop, you need to go, you need to. He wrote me a letter to take it to the university, to the disability department so they can adapt my desk. He said, you need to do Pilates classes two times a week. And when I was listening to all this, Chris, I thought, this one is crazy. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:08:16]: He has no idea what doing a PhD is about. You know, like, I'm trying to use every minute I have so I can be with my son and working, like, who has time to go to the gym, you know? But at the same time, I thought, well, I cannot keep going in the same way. And that was a red flag I couldn't ignore. So I needed to stop and reflect a little bit about what, what I needed to do differently. Definitely. I started doing these Pilates classes. I changed my desk, I adapted more. I was trying to sleep more. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:08:51]: Headaches I alleviated a bit. But I was. I think it was something that came with me all the way until the end of my dissertation, until I finished. But there was something that I started to feel better. But they're still not making the progress I hoped I would have with putting some things in place. And I was having a conversation with my husband about what he can do or what help I will need to make more progress. And I would like to highlight this, something that some of your guests talk about earlier as well, or some of your episodes about having this support system, family, friends, mentors, coaches. So it's so important that we can ask for help as well. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:09:39]: But I said, you know, what I need is time. I need time to work on my dissertation. Because we were here with no family support, we need to pay for private nursery, and that's very expensive in the uk, so we never could actually afford more than three days. I also have a conversation with my supervisor about if I could change like a part time because I was a full time PhD student. And he said, you cannot change after halfway. You need to finish now as a full time student. So I needed to do the work of a full time, five days in three days, because that's what I could pay. And my husband said, well, we cannot pay more, but I can. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:10:20]: Instead of you dropping our son to nursery and I picking him up, I'll do both, so you have a little bit more of time. I said, well, that would give me one, two hours more per day. I can do something with that. And I remember going to the office, so excited about, this is the day I'm Going to make massive progress. I was there and around. Like I arrived early, around 8, I was already sitting on my desk. And around 7, Chris, not 7, around 3pm, I realized I had like 20 tabs open. I was reading something, but I realized I was looking at the screen, I was reading something, but I was like, I wasn't really understanding when I was reading. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:11:05]: I was like, where am I? What am I reading about? Why I'm reading this? What was this 20 tabs that I have open and why I'm here. It's been like seven hours here, not making progress. And I started feeling so guilty as well. I'm not with my son because I supposed to be here working and working, working, but I'm not progressing. I started crying. It was horrible. Like I felt so bad about myself. My PhD, me as a mum again, another red flag I couldn't ignore. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:11:41]: This wasn't sustainable anymore. But the thing is, it was clear that it wasn't just about having more time. I needed something different. So I thought it was time. But it wasn't just time. I need a strategy. I needed to know what I was doing. I didn't need 20 tabs open on my laptop. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:12:00]: So I was having a conversation with a friend who also have twins at the same time I have my sunbed and she said, I'm using Pomodoro technique. Have you ever tried? I said, no. What's that about? She said, well, you focus for 25 minutes, then you have a break of five minutes and then you go back to the task. And I thought, oh, this will help with the. This not like reading without really knowing what I'm reading about. Like I can't focus for 20, 25 minutes. So I was stopping and reflecting off what I can do different, what can be differently for me so I can make more progress. That it wasn't necessarily having more time because when you have a scholarship, although it's wonderful. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:12:39]: And I was feeling lucky as we, as we usually feel when we have this, it's not. But if I didn't finish on time, I needed to return the money. So there was a lot of press pressure. And because I only could work three times a week, I really need to put a strategy in place. One of the main things that I needed to think about was this. Chris, I know that you mentioned your daughter. Sometimes, like sometimes we worry we are maybe trying to work and thinking how our kids are doing. I wasn't really present and I needed to do something about that because I thought there is no point of me Being at work, thinking about my son and being with my son, feeling guilty because I wasn't doing PhD work. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:13:23]: So I try meditation and that really helped to be more present. So I just started having this strategy. I will go, my husband will take care of dropping, picking up. I will go to the office early, I'll do like a 10 minutes meditation only I will walk on my way. So I'll do some exercise that the doctor asked me to do and I was feeling better about that. So I will cycle or I will walk, I will arrive early, I'll do some meditation and I'll start doing the pomodoro technique. And the good thing about that is that I started making progress. And when you start making progress, you get some momentum as well. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:14:01]: And I brought like more energy. And I started thinking like, what were the other things that weren't working? And I started working in my distractions, what I can do with my phone. Then I realized, well, this thing alarms sounded like 25 minutes. Sometimes it's disturbing. What about. I think I can concentrate for 40 minutes instead of the. So I was listening to me, what was working, what wasn't working, paying more attention. So I started to be much more productive in the same time that before I wasn't really producing. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:14:31]: So doing these things, I got to the end. But Chris, I always remember this, holding the whole thing because at that time was in person, I needed to print it, I give it in the office. I think everyone is doing it online now. But I remember like, oh my gosh, I could have done this in less time, with less waste of energy, fewer tears. And I think that's what I want to do now, you know, now if, if I have to go. But of course it's late for me now. I think I wasted energy, I compromised my well being. I didn't go into details. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:15:11]: But sometimes that affect your relationships. You are moody, you're tired, you're frustrated because you're not making the progress that you are hoping. But it's not just about hope, isn't it? It's about like a strategy that will work for you. Because something that happened to me, I don't know if this will resonate with you because I know that you, you talk with a lot of people and sometimes people have like recipes or do this or that. As it was, for example, for the pomodoro technique, just you feel, oh, this is not for me or this won't work, this is too strict or this is too this or too that. And you feel, and I think many Times in the academic world, we normalizing that thing with the effort and do it more and more and more. We don't even think that there is an easier, better, more enjoyable way. It doesn't seem like it's something that you can actually have, but it is possible. Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:16:02]: I know that everyone has their own journey and you listen to so many people in this podcast, but there's many. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:09]: Times where I remember that feeling of being a zombie in graduate school where you're losing sleep, you're trying to balance everything. I was lucky enough that in my doctorate I got my coursework before we had our first child, but I was in my dissertation phase while we had our young child. So you did have to try to carve out time to be able to have that focus time so that you didn't feel like you were taking away from your family in that way. And I know that feeling of being a zombie like you were talking about and where you were kind of clocked out per se and not being able to get things accomplished help you in developing that smart PhD system that I mentioned earlier. And I guess that sounds like from what you just said, that what you learned in this moment was really that turning point for yourself of how it changed your approach to academic life. But then I guess I look at it and think, as you look back at that now and you work with other students, what did that period of time do for you that now you try to use your system and you try to help others in learning so they don't repeat the same issue? Dr. Lucia Juarez [00:17:14]: I think it wasn't so straight away. So what I was sharing my story is with the time because I was a tutor at Edinburgh University and I was doing some teaching... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38217950

Finding Success in Graduate School: Mindset, Community, and Self-Care 09/29/2025

Finding Success in Graduate School: Mindset, Community, and Self-Care Embarking on the journey of graduate school is both exciting and challenging, a truth eloquently explored in the recent episode of Victors in Grad School featuring , Associate Professor of Education and Director of the Honors Program at the . Hosted by , the conversation delves into the realities of graduate education, highlighting transformative experiences and sharing practical wisdom for current and prospective students. A central theme of the discussion is the importance of mindset. Dr. Sreckovic reflects on her transitions—from classroom teacher to graduate student, then onto a doctoral program—emphasizing the need to adjust expectations and embrace continuous learning. She recounts how her drive to better support students with disabilities, particularly those with autism, sparked her ambition for advanced study. This personal motivation underlines the significant impact that meaningful experiences can have in shaping academic and career journeys. The episode also addresses the challenge of imposter syndrome, a feeling all too familiar for many graduate students, especially those who are first-generation college attendees. Dr. Sreckovic shares candidly about moments of self-doubt and the steps she took to reaffirm her sense of belonging. Importantly, she advocates for building a “community of safe people”—mentors and peers who offer guidance, encouragement, and camaraderie. This theme of community recurs throughout the conversation, with both Dr. Sreckovic and Dr. Lewis stressing the value of collaboration and finding supportive networks within graduate programs. Work-life balance and time management are further touchpoints, with Dr. Sreckovic offering practical strategies: block out dedicated study time, stay organized with to-do lists, and use even small windows of opportunity productively. She also highlights the necessity of self-care and seeking campus support services, such as counseling, to prevent burnout and maintain well-being. The conversation rounds out with reflections on the broader skills gained in graduate school, including the power of networking and the importance of listening to diverse perspectives. Dr. Sreckovic encourages prospective students to research programs, get involved, seek funding opportunities, and, above all, to believe in their own place within the academic community. If you’re contemplating graduate school or are in the midst of your own journey, this episode offers reassurance, actionable advice, and inspiration. Listen in to gather tools for your own toolbox—and remember, you’re never alone on this path to success. Tune into Victors in Grad School to hear the full conversation and gain more insights on thriving in graduate education! TRANSCRIPTS Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again. And as always, you and I are on a journey. We are on a journey. As you are preparing and thinking about graduate school, maybe you are just starting that process for yourself where you're trying to determine what you're going to do, what you want to do next to get to reach those goals that you have for yourself. Maybe you've already applied and you figured out the programs that you're applying to and you're waiting for that decision in the mail or in your email. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:48]: Or maybe you're already in graduate school and you're working your way through the process. You see that light at the end of the tunnel and. And you are trying to figure out what it means to be a graduate student and how you can be best successful no matter where you are. This podcast was developed to help you to be able to find success sooner. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences, different perspectives that can talk to you about their own experiences in going through graduate school so you can gain some tools for your toolbox to help you along your own journey. Today we've got another great guest. Dr. Melissa Sarkovic is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:30]: And Melissa is an associate professor of education and the director of the Honors Program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited to be able to have her here to talk about her own experience and to share that with you. Melissa, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:01:44]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: Well, I love being able to talk to people about their own experiences. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University. You got that back. Bachelor of Arts in elementary education. And after graduation, you went out, you worked for a bit, you became a teacher. And at some point, at some point in those early years of teaching, you got a spark. There was something that made you start to think, maybe I want to go and get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: And why did you decide that graduate school was the. Why it was the right time for you to go to graduate school and why you ultimately decided to go to graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:02:30]: Well, after I graduated from Michigan State, I moved to Cary, North Carolina, where I began my teaching career as a third grade teacher. And right before school started the principal came to the third grade team and said, what teacher wants to be the inclusion teacher this year who wants to have the students with disabilities in their class? And I eagerly said, I do. And. And of course, that's not how things work anymore. This was a while ago. And so I had just the best experience my first year teaching students with and without disabilities in the classroom. I was able to collaborate with a special education teacher, and I realized that I still had a lot to learn about special education. And if I was going to be a really solid teacher and meet the multifaceted needs of these students in my class, that I needed more information. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:03:24]: I needed a different skill, skill set. And so that's what prompted me to get my master's and a focus in special education. And I went back to Michigan State for a couple reasons. It was comfortable. I already knew some of the professors there, and also because of the format, I was living in North Carolina. I wanted to stay in North Carolina, and I wanted to continue teaching. I didn't want to take a break from teaching. So I was looking for an online program that I could do mostly on the weekends so that I could really focus on my students in my classroom. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:03:55]: And Michigan State afforded me that opportunity. So that was why. That's why I decided to go back for my master's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:02]: Now, I know that you got that master's degree. You finished up, went back, worked with your students, engaged yourself within your. Your classroom and in your school. But then again, two years later, you had that inkling again, and you decided that you wanted to go further, and you ultimately decided to get a doctorate degree in special education in Autism Spectrum Disorder. And you. You decided to go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. So talk to me about what made you decide that you wanted to take that next step and get the PhD versus just staying at the master's level. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:04:39]: So I taught a student with autism, and he just really changed the trajectory of me for my professional life. And I just understood him. We got each other. I was his safe person. When he moved on to fourth grade, into fifth grade, he would come back to my classroom if he was 15, feeling overwhelmed. And I realized that he was really misunderstood by other teachers in the school, by other students in the school, by parents. And he is such a great kid. He's brilliant. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:05:12]: He's so kind, so empathetic. And I thought, you know what? I can. I want to go back to school so that I can better prepare teachers to work with students like him so that they really understand the strengths and value that kiddos like him bring to the classroom. And really to help teachers foster a classroom community where everyone in their class belongs and understands their value. So that was really why I decided to go back to graduate school to get my PhD, because I really wanted to learn more about autism and how I could better support teachers in supporting their students on the spectrum. So, so when I was looking at doctoral programs, I was looking for a place that had researchers doing work on autism. So UNC Chapel Hill had some of the biggest autism researchers around the world. Dr. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:06:04]: Sam Odom, Dr. Gary Meziboff, Dr. Kara Hume, were doing some really phenomenal research at UNC Chapel Hill. So I decided to go for an informational session and learn a little bit more. I learned about an interdisciplinary grant that I could apply for that would fund all four years of my PhD program. And I would do research as part of that grant and I would also teach as part of that grant. And that was under Dr. Harriet Abel. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:06:32]: And I applied and was awarded the grant and thought, okay, well, all the stars are aligning. It looks like I'm getting my PhD. But really it was having that student in my class which really sparked my interest in thinking, you know, what, I can do more, I can make a bigger impact. And the avenue in which I do that is getting my PhD. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: I know that whenever you start a new degree, there are transitions. And as you go into that degree itself, you're having to learn a lot about not only yourself, but about what the expectations are for your faculty, how you're going to have to learn in a different way, and you have to figure that out as you go along. As you think about your master's degree, your doctorate degree, and you think back to those experiences, what mindset shifts, what mindset shifts did you have to make to succeed in graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:07:24]: One of the bigger challenges for me going from the third grade classroom into a full time PhD program was the lack of reinforcement. So when you're teaching third grade, you have 258 year olds that are coming to you every morning and excited to see you and you are like reinforced all day long by their smiles and their laughing and their high fives and you know that you're doing something right. When you get to a PhD program, you don't have that instant reinforcement anymore. And in fact, you have a lot of feedback that's not always positive. It's not negative either. It's meant to help you grow. But it was a mindset shift. When you're getting papers back and there's A lot of work that you need to do on it. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:08:09]: So that was one of the biggest shifts for me in my master's program. I felt like there was still a lot more positive reinforcement. In the PhD program, there certainly was positive reinforcement, but it just wasn't nearly as common or as consistent as when you're teaching third grade. That was a very big shift for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:27]: A lot of students that I talk to talk about the fact that as they're going through their graduate degrees, at times they feel like an imposter. They feel like they shouldn't be there. They feel like they are not worthy of the, of the opportunity to be in those programs. Did you ever face imposter syndrome or self doubt during your graduate studies? And how did you handle it? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:08:50]: Absolutely. And I would say that sometimes still in my professional journey, I face imposter syndrome. I mentioned that I'm a first gen grad student. So even navigating the college application as an undergrad student, but especially as a graduate student was challenging because as when I was applying for undergrad, at least I had my high school counselors to help. But then when you're applying to grad school and you're a first gen college student, you don't have anyone in your family that you can go to and say, hey, does this look right? Can you read over my essay for me? So that's challenging. But I remind myself that everyone wasn't accepted into this program. It wasn't an open door policy where everybody gets in. So I earned my spot there and I belong just as much as the next person. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:09:38]: And I think it's really important when you start your graduate journey that you find your community of people. That was just instrumental. And my success in my PhD program was finding my safe people that I could ask silly questions to. And we supported each other, we encouraged each other, we were there to help each other. And you know, that helps with imposter syndrome too. When you find your people and you know like, this is your place, this is where you belong. I think you just have to remind yourself that you got in just like everyone else. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:10]: That's always an important thing to do. Whether it's on a daily basis, whether it's on a monthly basis, a semester basis, you are reinforcing that you are meant to be there. The program believed in you and now they're giving you an opportunity to not only believe in yourself, but really to step up to the plate, step up to the challenge. Because it will be challenging, but it is an opportunity that they are giving you because they feel that you are worthy of that opportunity. So always keep that in mind as you're going through not only the good times, but the challenging times, because there will be both as you go through graduate school in general. Now, Melissa, I know that there's a lot of things that are thrown at you as you go through graduate school. And many times people that are going through graduate school are wearing many hats. They're having to be a employee, they're having to be a friend, a family member, maybe a spouse or a parent. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:06]: And that takes a lot of balance. Talk to me about balance for yourself. How did you balance school, work, family, or other responsibilities while you were going through graduate school? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:11:16]: When I was in grad school, both for my Master's and my PhD, I did not have kids yet, so I was married and I have a very supportive husband. And so that is definitely key. And my husband shared in my goals. You know, he knew that I wanted to finish my doctoral program and he was very supportive of that, which was really huge. But I think you just have to make the time. I would block out time through the week where I would study, and so it was just set there on the calendar. This is really silly, but I am very efficient and I always have my backpack with me. So if I was heading home from Chapel Hill to my apartment and there was traffic, I would pull over into a parking lot and I would work until the traffic died down because I didn't want to waste an hour in traffic when I could have been reading an article. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:12:07]: So. So I just used my time as efficiently as I could and then I built in time. It may not be five hours that I could spend with my husband on a Saturday, but maybe it's two hours. And those two hours, I try to make it count as quality time where I put my work aside. And then I also tried to build in some fun. So I had a really great community when I was in graduate school and I brought my husband into that community and we would go out in Chapel Hill and go to dinner and things like that together. And so having a community, that kind of helps me push you through the program and contributes to both the work life balance. Because you're studying together, but you're also going out and exploring your new town together. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:12:48]: That was really helpful as well. And then the last thing I will say is you just have to be very organized. I'm very organized person and I love a to do list. So lots of to do lists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:59]: Well, the to do lists are definitely one thing and as you said, you're very organized. Not every person is. And time management is definitely important. As you go through graduate school, talk to me about some of the time management management strategies or tools that were most helpful to you. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:13:14]: Well, I would set out specific times of the day where I could study, where I wasn't teaching, where I wasn't doing research, and when I didn't have class and they were blocked out in my calendar. Now this was a while ago, so I didn't have Google Calendar. I had like a physical calendar that I would block it out in. But that helped me with time management. And I would look at my syllabus and I would write everything down, all the big due dates down in my calendar, so I knew when they were coming up. I'm not a procrastinator, so I would slowly work on those bigger projects. I believe it or not, my undergrad students don't typically do this, but I went to office hours of my professors and I would ask questions and make sure that I understood the assignment so that what I was working on, I was. It wasn't wasted time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:01]: You definitely want to take advantage of all the time that you have now. Realize also, though, that it's not always going to be easy and there's going to be time where even when you're putting in the time and the effort that you burned yourself out. And that can feel frustrating. It can feel overwhelming. And I say that just because everyone should know that it is something that may impact you while you go through graduate school. Melissa, talk to me about burnout for yourself and what did you do to avoid burnout or to recover from it when you were feeling overwhelmed? Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:14:34]: First, I would say that I definitely reinforced myself. So if I was working on a big project or if I was trying to get a paper submitted for publication, when I submitted it, I would have some sort of reinforcement after and whether that meant that I could go walk around the mall or I bought myself a new top, or I would take myself and my husband out to dinner. So building in those reinforcements are really important and they don't have to be anything big. It could be like, I'm going to go take a walk around the block with my dog now that I did this. And having those builds in sometimes throughout the week and then bigger reinforcements when I submit a big project was really helpful. You have to take time for yourself. I like to run, so I run almost every day, and I did during my graduate program too. So working out is definitely a way for me to like, release stress. Dr. Melissa Sreckovic [00:15:25]: And just have that 30 minutes to myself, I think was really important to help preventing burnout. And then I would say I did access. One of the greatest resources that I used when I was a doctoral student at UNC was their counseling and psychological services. So I did go to therapy when I was a doctoral student using my UNC resources. So it was free for me and it was really a game changer for me. It really helped me refocus and helped me complete the program successfully. So I'm very thankful for that resource as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:00]: We definitely have to destigmatize the use of services on campus. And I've talked about that in the past, the fact that if you feel that you need help, if you feel that there are services that could help you to be successful, ask about them, search them out, and... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38210720

Why Accreditation Matters When Choosing Your Graduate School Program 09/22/2025

Why Accreditation Matters When Choosing Your Graduate School Program If you’re planning your path to graduate school—whether you’re a first-generation student, a working professional, or a lifelong learner—there’s a crucial factor you shouldn’t overlook: accreditation. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, sits down with , Accreditation Officer at the , to demystify accreditation and explain why it matters so much to your graduate journey. Understanding Accreditation—Your Assurance of Quality Dr. Lewis opens the conversation by highlighting how many students overlook accreditation while searching for the right program. Daniel Sessions breaks it down simply: think of accreditation as a seal of approval on your education. It stands for legitimate quality assurance and long-term value. When an institution or a program is accredited, it’s been vetted by rigorous standards—giving you peace of mind that your time and investment will pay off after graduation. The Difference Between Institutional and Programmatic Accreditation One of the most important clarifications in the episode is the distinction between institutional and programmatic accreditation. Institutional accreditation is a broad assessment of a whole university or college. Programmatic accreditation, however, dives deeper into evaluating a specific program or area of study—often required for careers that rely on licensure or specific professional credentials, such as healthcare, accounting, or law. Why You Need to Care About Accreditation Dr. Lewis and Sessions stress that choosing an unaccredited or questionably accredited program can have real consequences, such as ineligibility for professional licensing, difficulty transferring credits, or even trouble qualifying for financial aid or future educational opportunities. Accreditation isn’t just about prestige—it can impact your ability to practice in your field after graduating. Essential Questions for Prospective Grad Students Sessions encourages prospective students to ask admissions officers what role accreditation plays in their programs, verify accreditation status with official accrediting bodies, and consider how the school’s reputation is reflected in the industry. Trust but verify—don’t be afraid to dig deeper! Ready to Learn More? Listen to the Full Podcast Whether you’re just starting to weigh your grad school options or you’re narrowing your choices, this episode offers practical advice and insider insight that will empower you to make informed decisions. Listen to the full episode of "Victors in Grad School" to hear Daniel Sessions’ personal journey, tangible tips, and deep dive into academic excellence. Your pathway to graduate success starts with asking the right questions. Don’t miss this essential conversation—give the episode a listen today! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together as you are going through and figuring out those steps that you are taking to prepare yourself to go in, go through, and even go out of attending graduate school. And that's why this show exists. It's here to be able to give you some hints, some tips, some tools, some things that you can learn from that'll help you to find success in that graduate school journey. I love being able to sit down and talk with you every week because there are things that you can do right now, things that you can do to prepare yourself, to make sure you're asking the right questions and making sure that you're prepared for identifying the right schools for you if you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: If you're at the very beginning or that you're making sure that you know what to do as you're going through that school and as you're looking at the light at the end of the tunnel. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you do just that. And today we got another great guest. Daniel Sessions is with us. And Daniel is an accreditation officer for the national association of Academic Excellence Incorporated. And we're going to talk about that because I've talked about accreditation in the past. If you've ever gone to any of the webinars that I've done or you've heard me talk about. Things to look for when you're looking at schools, when you're considering different schools. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: And accreditation is one of those things that not everybody asks about. It's kind of in the background. Sometimes you see it on a website, but it is something that is important, and it's something that you should know about. So we're gonna be talking about that as well. But first and foremost, I'm really excited to have Daniel here. We're gonna have him talk a little bit about his own experiences as well. So, Daniel, thanks so much for being here. Daniel Sessions [00:01:59]: Thanks, Dr. Lewis, for having me. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to have you here today, to have you talk about not only accreditation, but some of your own graduate school journey. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Southern Illinois University and then you graduated Went out into that workforce, graduated, got some experience, and at some point you made a decision, you made a decision that you wanted to continue and go on and get further education. Can you bring me back to that point and what made you make the decision that you wanted to take that next step? Daniel Sessions [00:02:31]: So I have to give a shout out to an identity piece that I have, and that is not only a first generation undergraduate student, but a first generation graduate student. And so at that point, where I decided to go back to graduate school was I had seen the benefits that formal undergraduate education had given me as I entered, entered into the workforce. And I knew I had a taste of the nice sweet fruit. And I realized that it could only be better if I furthered my education and deepened my understanding in a very specific specialization area. And so I went on about a 12 month experience process where I tried to decide, well, what was it? There are many different areas that you could go study that you could elect to do. In addition and above and beyond that, where could I go? And so ultimately I decided to enroll and go to graduate school to better my life and to give myself not only some upward mobility in a credential perspective, but, but also just to gain further light and knowledge in my life so that I could be the best professional that I could be through advanced education. Because I felt like I was made for that and I wanted to experience that myself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:29]: Now you just talked about that. You went through that process of looking at programs, looking at schools, figuring out what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go, and I guess bring me to that point, talk to me about what you did as you were looking and, and exploring those different schools. And I know you ultimately decided to attend Northwestern University to get a Master of Science in Strategic Communication and Law. What made you decide that Northwestern was the right school? And what made you decide that Strategic Communication and Law was the right program? Daniel Sessions [00:04:01]: So I was at a pivotal point in my adult career where I had spent the first just over a decade in clinical healthcare and had exited clinical healthcare to start teaching human anatomy and physiology at a local technical college. And I really had a departure point that I was grappling with. It was either double down and go back and go to graduate school in the form of clinical medicine, or specialize in a different area. And I loved working in education and I knew that higher education administration was something that I could see myself having a very long and rewarding career on. Now, around that same time frame, we were seeing a lot of change in the higher education space. And A lot of change in the regulatory space as it relates to oversight of education, the 2008 through 2010 and 11 timeframe. And I decided ultimately not to pursue and continue to pursue clinical healthcare, but to specialize in an area that would help me in higher education administration and strategic communications. I've always liked to talk, I've always liked to present. Daniel Sessions [00:04:57]: And it was just something that I felt as though was part of who I am and what I do. And so to be able to rally the allegiance of my associates through words and present material and clear and concise manners was something that I was looking for. And so as I evaluated Northwestern and suburban Chicago, not only the reputation of the institution, but also the program, as I evaluated it, just seemed like it fit my needs very well. And I was very excited to jump in with both feet. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:23]: Now, every student, when they go from undergraduate into graduate work, there is a transition that you go through, a transition in the way in which faculty are expecting things of you, transitions in the way that you have to read, in the way that you have to write, in the way that you have to do a lot of different things. You were successful, you came into the program, you got through the program. As you made that transition from undergrad to workforce and then workforce back into graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your entire graduate school journey? Daniel Sessions [00:05:58]: I had to be very self disciplined in setting some boundaries for myself. If I knew I was going to be focusing on other responsibilities, I wouldn't be sort of half in my studies, my research, my assignments, my writing. If I was in school mode, I needed to be in school mode and remove all other distractions out of my life. At this time in the season of my life, I was a young father. I was working to make ends meet and go to graduate school at the same time. So my plate was quite full. And so I had to dedicate and create some boundaries for my own self so that I could give everything I had to my scholastic endeavors. And so that's really what I attribute a lot of my success to. Daniel Sessions [00:06:33]: But also just some of those intrinsic motivation factors. Really wanting to do this not only for myself and for the process of learning and growth, but also for the process of my family and my young growing family. That really helped from a motivational perspective, to really buckle down, even when I was tired, to stick with it and take everything that I could out of the activities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: I mentioned earlier that you are working for the national association of academic excellence. And in that association, they are an association that is working on accreditation and accreditation for institutions, for programs. And it's not something that everyone talks about. It is not something that that especially academics talk about it, Universities talk about it. It's really important for universities for programs. But when it comes to students looking at graduate schools, when it comes to parents and students in high school looking at schools, it's not a question that is usually on the tip of their tongues. So I guess first and foremost, before we delve too deep into this, one of the things that I was really interested in having you talk about is for someone just starting to explore graduate school, how would you explain accreditation in the simplest terms? Daniel Sessions [00:07:41]: The simplest terms I would use would be legit quality assurance and long term value. Those are the three main things that I would attribute to accreditation and what accreditation affords an institution as you're evaluating whether or not to attend graduate school there. Now, I can't talk about accreditation without rewinding the clocks back a hundred years. And when you go back 100 years ago, what did accreditation start as? And what was the main focus of accreditation when it was really entering the scene of higher education 100 years ago? And that was really quality assurance and academic excellence, Focusing on the academic rigor of the programs, the courses, the assignments, the faculty, the scholarship, you know, really putting a seal of approval on this is what you get when you are an accredited institution through this enterprise. Over the last hundred years or so, and especially in the last few decades, we've seen accreditation take on multiple different arms. And it's by virtue of just the competencies that accreditors have to offer institutions. And so we've seen over the course of that time period, accreditation start to be focused in some other areas as well, and some would argue focused in those areas more so than what they originally embarked on the journey of accreditation to do. And so I think accreditation is really, really important. Daniel Sessions [00:08:56]: And specifically asking questions around how does that accreditation assure academic excellence within the institution? What role does quality assurance play in continuous improvement of the courses and the programs at that institution? And so accreditation, think about it as a seal of approval or an extra meas of academic excellence, as a distinction or as a distinguishing factor for that institution to talk about when you're thinking about matriculating into a graduate program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]: I appreciate you sharing that. And I know that as someone hears the word accreditation, they're going to hear institutional accreditation and they're going to hear programmatic accreditation. What is the difference between institutional accreditation and programmatic accreditation. And why does that distinction matter to students? Daniel Sessions [00:09:43]: That distinction matters greatly. And there are two very different specific lenses that those accreditors look at. Institutional accreditation. Think about it as a 30,000 foot view with microscopes down into specific areas. It is over the entire institution at large, their entire process of continuous improvement, their entire process of faculty qualifications and institutional effectiveness. It looks at the college and the university as a whole. Whereas programmatic accreditation is specifically focused on a discipline of study or a school of study within that institution. So let's say it's a business programs accreditation. Daniel Sessions [00:10:18]: They look at the business programs in a similar way that an institutional accreditor will look at the entire institution. A programmatic accreditor will look at the entire operations within that given program. And it's considered or sometimes referred to as a specialized accreditor for that specific reason, because they have specific and distinct oversight of those areas that require specialized things in those specific programs. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:43]: Now, when someone first goes onto a website, programs that are accredited are going to make it very clear that they're accredited. Sometimes it can be in small print and still be on a page, and sometimes it's not, as always, easy to find. But usually a program will be very proud of the fact that they've been accredited by a agency. As you think about graduate students that are considering different programs, why should prospective graduate students pay attention to accreditation when choosing a program? Daniel Sessions [00:11:10]: Well, you should pay attention to accreditation when choosing a program for a couple of reasons. One, programmatic accreditation is largely voluntary. It's voluntary in the fact that there are many programs out there that may not be programmatically accredited. And you have to understand why that matters. Now, as you're approaching, say, a specific discipline of study that has and or leads to some form of professional licensure within your state or within your country, it's really, really important to attend a programmatically accredited program. There are higher standards on the outcomes of those graduates that lead to licenses within their given discipline or their given employment field, say accountancy, for example, or some healthcare examples, or social work, mental health type providers, or even teachers. Right? By looking at programmatically accredited programs, you're basically understanding that they are meeting very specific outcomes that these accreditors will require of these programs that are competencies demonstrated and or retained by graduates of that program. And so if you're thinking about and evaluating programmatic accreditation of a given program, it's really, really also too important to know, does this program lead to some form of specific type of licensure or specific type of approval to be employed in that field. Daniel Sessions [00:12:29]: And if so, that should even bump up your priority level of a programmatically accredited program even more so in thinking. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]: About that, it seems like you're saying that especially for those credential programs, there are definitely some risks or consequences of not enrolling in a program. So what are some of those risks or consequences that students should be aware of if they don't enroll in a program that has that proper accreditation? Daniel Sessions [00:12:54]: The best example that I can give you is one within the clinical healthcare space. You know, and somebody that was educated internationally, they could find themselves not being able to be appointed to the boards here within the United States to practice in that clinical healthcare profession. They could find employers that are unwilling to employ graduates of unaccredited programs. And so while you may be able to navigate the academic journey and attain many of your scholastic endeavors that you want to obtain for your own personal sort of intrinsic value, the outcome of an unaccredited program may ultimately be difficulty in the life after graduate school. What does that look like after and how do I demonstrate that while I did have and achieve great learning, some employers may not even entertain discussing potential employment with you if you did not attend a programmatic the accredited program? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:44]: Well, another example, I worked at a law school for almost 10 years, and there are law schools that are accredited only in certain states. And if you attend a law school that is accredited only by, let's say, California, you can only practice in California and sit for the bar exam in California. You cannot sit for any other bar exam in any other state. You can only sit for the bar exam in that state. So you have to be really willing to stay in one state to use that license if you're going to sit for the bar exam. It doesn't take away the fact that you got a JD but it does take away the ability to be able to sit for the bar exam and take that credential with you and sit for other bar exams in other states. So that's just another example that could be a risk if you are not asking those right questions on the way. Are there other, other impacts that you can think of, Daniel, that this accreditation can impact, like financial aid or transfer of credits or other aspects that students should be thinking about? Daniel Sessions [00:14:44]: Yes, absolutely. And so if continuing education, if you're, if you consider yourself like I do, a lifelong... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38050060

Why Mentorship Matters in Grad School: Insights from Dr. Jonathan Bartels 09/15/2025

Why Mentorship Matters in Grad School: Insights from Dr. Jonathan Bartels Embarking on graduate school is more than just an academic decision—it’s a deeply personal journey marked by self-discovery, challenge, growth, and, ultimately, transformation. In the recent episode of Victors in Grad School, sat down with Dr. , Assistant Professor of Education at the , to explore the realities of pursuing advanced degrees and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Dr. Bartels’ candid reflection on his path—from an undergraduate at East Carolina University to earning his master’s while teaching, and then pursuing a doctorate at UNC Chapel Hill—sheds light on several key themes that resonate with anyone considering or currently navigating graduate education. 1. The Nonlinear Nature of Academic Paths One of the central takeaways is that the journey to and through graduate school isn’t always mapped out from the start. Dr. Bartels never planned to pursue a master’s or a doctorate—he was fueled by a desire for deeper intellectual engagement and the encouragement of mentors who saw potential in him. His story reassures listeners that it’s okay—and often beneficial—to let curiosity and passion guide your next steps, even if they diverge from your original plan. 2. The Power of Mentorship and Community Dr. Bartels emphasizes how pivotal faculty relationships were to his development, especially choosing graduate programs based on the research interests and support of specific professors. Connecting with advisors and building a supportive cohort community can ease transitions and provide both professional opportunities and emotional sustenance. 3. Managing Mindset and Embracing Growth Imposter syndrome and self-doubt are common companions in graduate school. Dr. Bartels opens up about normalizing these feelings and maintaining perspective: your presence in a program is evidence of your worth, and challenging moments are natural signs of growth. Reframing experiences from “jumping hoops” to opportunities for learning and self-betterment is key for long-term success. 4. Balancing Life and Prioritizing Well-Being Graduate study often means juggling academics, work, family, and personal commitments. Dr. Bartels offers practical advice—set boundaries, proactively communicate with faculty, make time for rest, and remember that self-care is not a luxury but a necessity for sustainable, effective learning. 5. Purpose-Driven Learning Most crucially, Dr. Bartels reminds us to continually revisit our “why” for pursuing graduate education. Anchoring your studies in your personal and professional aspirations provides resilience, motivation, and a sense of direction to weather the inevitable challenges. Whether you’re contemplating graduate school or already in the trenches, this podcast episode is packed with honest advice and encouragement. Listen in to gain insight and inspiration for your own academic journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: Experts about what it takes to find. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:00:08]: Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are working together on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is. As you go from your undergraduate degree to looking at the possibility of a graduate degree, or maybe you've already applied, you got an accepted, or maybe you're even in a graduate program now. This continuum that you're on is definitely a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:42]: You're going to learn a ton along this whole pathway. But there are things that you can do right now to prepare yourself better for the future that you want to attain. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to. To identify ways in which you can be successful in this graduate journey that you're on. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can help you in many ways to learn things that they may not have known along the way that they had to learn the hard way, and maybe gain some additional insight that can help you as you go through your own journey. This week we got another great guest with us. Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]: Jonathan Bartles is with us. And Dr. Bartles is an assistant professor of education at the University of Michigan, Flint, and he has his own educational journey that he went on to get his doctorate and now be teaching at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to be able to have him here today and to have him share some of his own experiences. Jonathan, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:01:46]: Thanks so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:47]: It is my pleasure, really excited to have you here today to be able to talk about this journey that you went on. And I, as I said, it is a journey. And I know you did your undergraduate work at East Carolina University. You stayed on for a master's degree there and then went on to get a doctorate. Every person comes to thinking about graduate school in a little bit different way. And I guess for you, I would love to take you back to that point, take you back to those days at East Carolina University where you were getting that Bachelor of Science degree in English Language Arts and Teacher education. And at some point you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on into a graduate career degree, and you made that Choice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:32]: So talk to me about that. What made you choose that graduate education was the next step and that you were going to continue on? Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:02:39]: Yeah, absolutely. So it actually wasn't part of my plan. I graduated with my undergraduate and I started teaching. And my plan was to. I'm going to go teach and I'm going to enjoy it. And I loved teaching. The first year of teaching is. We often refer to it as kind of treading water. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:02:51]: It's. You're trying to, you know, just figure everything out in your own classroom. So I was doing that and that was really fulfilling and time consuming. But at the end of that first year, I realized that there's a level of intellectual engagement that happens at a university campus that doesn't happen at like a high school campus. It's not to say I didn't have brilliant colleagues and phenomenal students who were pushing me intellectually, but there was a piece that I felt like that I realized I was missing from being on the university campus. And so I thought about it and kind of looked around and decided to stick with East Carolina University to go back and work on my master's while I was continuing to teach, to get back into some of those academic conversations. And I was coming to get involved with different research projects and things like that. And so it was just a way for me to keep that type of thing going. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:03:35]: And that was really my drive to. That sent me back to grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:39]: Well, you just mentioned that you stayed on at East Carolina University and getting a Master of Arts in Education in English. And I guess one of the questions that I have is taking you back to when you made that decision that you were going to continue on. There are a lot of different Master of Arts programs that are out there, lots of different English programs that are out there. You chose to go back to your undergraduate institution to be able to get that degree. Talk to me about that decision making process for yourself. Maybe what you were looking for in a degree and what made you ultimately choose to stay at the same university for your master's. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:04:16]: There are a ton of options. And within North Carolina, there are phenomenal schools and colleges of education that I could have selected from and still been on that wonderful in state tuition that they had there at that time. I decided to stay with East Carolina because of the faculty. There was one particular faculty within English education that I had already kind of been doing a little bit of work with. And it was somebody that we had a lot of similar interests and connections. And so for me, that was my driving force. For staying with ECU was. His name's Dr. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:04:44]: Todd Finley. Really interesting work that he does with different types of emotional awareness and technology and looking how technology is influencing ed. And I wanted to continue my work with him. And so really it was about really the faculty and the faculty's research interests that kind of made me want to stay there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: Now you stayed at East Carolina, got your degree, and at some point during that point in time, you made a big shift in deciding to completely move outside of teaching at the K12 level to going beyond. And you decided to apply for PhD programs. Talk to me about that decision for yourself. And you ultimately decided to go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Again, lots of PhD programs that are out there. So talk to me about that decision making process as well. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:05:33]: Absolutely. Just like going to get my Master's, I wasn't planning to get a PhD. I wasn't planning to go in those directions. But as I was working on my master's, as I mentioned, I was becoming more involved in research projects and I was getting more and more into that. And I really loved teaching. I loved the school I was at. I kept saying, like, I don't know why they're paying me for this. I just feel like I'm coming and playing and being a nerd about literature and writing. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:05:54]: And so for me, teaching was. It was a lot of play. It was just a lot of fun for me. But I remember one morning I got to my classroom early and I was working on one of the research projects I was doing with Dr. Finley. And the bell rang for students to come in. And my thought was, I really wish it was like a work day or something so I can keep working on this research project. And that kind of made me sit back at my desk and go, wait. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:06:18]: Like, I really like these students. I really love what I'm doing, but I'm wishing my students weren't here today so I could do this. And that kind of made me go, okay, I need to. What is my future? What is my path forward? And so at that point, it became that search of, okay, I think I need to go get a doctorate, Because I'm starting to get really into the research. And I was starting to facilitate professional development opportunities for teachers. And so getting into some of that teacher education piece, I was getting really interested in that. So it's kind of seeing, seeing the writing on the wall for my future. As I started to look at schools, I spent probably a year or two looking at different programs. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:06:53]: As I was finishing up my master's and just trying to figure out which is going to be the right program for me. It started out with a national search, and I started looking at. I think I was looking at Stanford, Arizona State, and then Chapel Hill came in as one of my selections to figure out which program was best for me. I worked very closely with Dr. Finley and said, hey, help me figure this out, because I need to figure out where. Where's the right spot? And so he had insights about schools, and he also reached out to his network to say, hey, I've got this student. Here's what they're interested in. What do you think? And so it helped me narrow it down. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:07:26]: And for me, landing at Chapel Hill, it was ultimately, I really liked the work they were doing there. And once again, looking at the faculty that are there, I think, especially for a doctorate program, that is a critical piece of seeing. Are there faculty there who can advance the things that you're curious about? Can they take you to where you want to be? I was interested in technology, but really wanted to look more at the sociological aspects of technology and kind of, what do they mean beyond their immediate usage? And there are some phenomenal faculty at UNC Chapel Hill who are really looking at some of those sociocultural underpinnings of education and approaching technology in that same kind of way that wasn't super technocentric, but much more a sociological approach. And so that's really kind of what led me to Chapel Hill as well as just some guidance advisor. Dr. Finley's wife commented to me one time about my social support network and being connected with groups that I was connected with in North Carolina. And how, from her perspective, she said, this seems like a very important thing for you. Is that something you're willing to just give up and move? And I was like, that's a. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:08:27]: That's a really good point. And so it was a lot of different things that drove me to Chapel Hill. And going from one in state school to the flagship was. Was a little bit of a pain in my ECU Pirate heart to become a Chapel Hill Tar Heel, but it was absolutely worth it and wouldn't have traded it for anything. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: With all of those different degrees, there are transitions that you go through. There's transitions from your going from undergrad to your master's degree for your master's degree to your doctorate degree. At each level, there are different expectations, different perspectives, different things that faculty are going to expect of you as a student, as a learner, and as you think back to the graduate school, experiences that you had and you think about those transitions for yourself. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into those different programs, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:09:22]: I think it becomes a staggered piece through my master's program. It was about just kind of really working closely with my advisor in that he very quickly saw where I was going and was starting to tailor things for me to kind of shape the master's degree in a way that was going to help me get to my eventual goals. So I think working closely with him and just kind of going through the process of that master's program was. Was big and really taking advantage of different opportunities that were there with the opportunities to. To research as well as do my own research for my thesis, and then present that both at conferences as well as at different things on campus, just to kind of help, kind of share my work and get my work out there and practice some of that, I think, was really big. And so I was presenting a whole lot and starting to wr pieces and articles in collaboration with Dr. Finley, as well as writing up my thesis work for publication. And so those things, I think, are really important to take advantage of, because I think those are things that are often on the side, but can be a really important piece because it gets you plugged into those larger professional networks and kind of get your name and work out there, which is really important at the doctorate level. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:10:28]: If I thought that my relationship with my advisor was important to my master's, like, that was a great, lovely thing to have that phenomenal relationship with Dr. Finley. Having a good relationship with my advisor through my doctorate program was absolutely critical. And while we didn't always have things as aligned, Dr. Cheryl Mason Bullock is an amazing scholar and was such a phenomenal advisor. And working closely with her and following her guidance on things was really, really important. One of the things that I think, which Cheryl didn't always like because she was very optimistic, and she felt like I brought a realism that it made her a little bit uncomfortable at times. But Dr. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:11:06]: Finley's wife from East Carolina had commented to me about how difficult it was for her to watch Todd go through his doctorate program and just some of the emotional toll that learning at that kind of level can take. And so for me, that was something that constantly played in my mind. And I shared that with Cheryl. And she. I think she's kind of like Mary Poppins, just always positive and practically perfect in every way. And so me saying, like, oh, yeah, like, I'M going to get broken, I'm going to feel down, I'm going to do those things. But that's also nor. And part of this extreme growth that I'm going through in such a short span. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:11:40]: And so for me, keeping those kinds of things in mind were really important that when working on a graduate degree you are going to be pushed, you are going to be stretched to your intellectual limit. And that. That can be really difficult. Growth is always a difficult, painful process. But being able to recognize that that is what's happening. This is hard, this is difficult. I'm having doubts, but that's because I'm growing so much that I'm having these things and that this is a normal thing that. And so for me, that normalized it. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:12:09]: Whenever I would have those moments of doubt and go, okay, wait, no, this is just. It's part of the process. It's part of that growth. And I think that was an important thing, at least for me to keep in mind that it otherwise I would just go insular and say I'm just not cut out for this versus this is just part of the process. And so I think that things like that are important. And then also building community with the cohort that I was in my doctorate with, it was a rigorous thing that we were all in together. And so having community within that cohort was really, really important just for social morale and things like that to kind of get through. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:44]: You know, one of the other things that comes to mind after hearing you say that is that I think every student that goes into a graduate program, not only do they go through these transitions, but they also go through mindset shifts as it comes to the way in which they learn, ways in which they have to process, et cetera. Talk to me about the mindset shifts that you had to make to be able to successful in graduate school. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:13:10]: I think that for part of it with undergrad, a lot of my. I think we see this with our undergrads as well and that sometimes it's. It's about compliance. Why am I in these classes? Well, because I'm supposed to be. Let me jump the hoop. It started within my master's program. I can still think of times when I definitely was hoop jumping. But then as I was getting to the doctorate program, it very much became about the grade doesn't matter. Dr. Jonathan Bartels [00:13:31]: Being somebody who gets that spot, it's really hard to say the grade doesn't matter, but really the grade doesn't matter. What's more important is what is my own growth? How am I seeing my work, am I happy with what I'm producing? And if I'm happy with it and it doesn't make an A or whatever the university is using as an equivalent of an A, does that actually matter? When really it's about my own growth and my own journey. As you were saying earlier, it's about, how is this preparing me, what am I getting from it? And that trying to make the most of every opportunity. I had some classmates who would look in some of our courses and kind of go, this is just a waste of time. It's like, okay, if that's your perspective of it, then yes, this will absolutely be a waste... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38049980

Realities of Grad School: Writing, Balance, and Support with Amanda Seney 09/08/2025

Realities of Grad School: Writing, Balance, and Support with Amanda Seney Are you thinking about graduate school, or perhaps already navigating its hills and valleys? The latest episode of Victors in Grad School is a must-listen for anyone considering this transformative step. sits down with Amanda Seney, the Writing Center Academic Program Specialist at the University of Michigan-Flint, who shares her unique path through higher education and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. Amanda’s story is one of perseverance, growth, and self-discovery. After a significant gap between starting and finishing her undergraduate studies, Amanda returned to academia more determined than ever. She didn’t just finish her degree—she flourished, embracing the experience by double-majoring and then moving seamlessly into a graduate program. For Amanda, the decision to pursue graduate studies wasn’t just about credentials; it was about personal growth and opening new doors, even when the destination was unknown. Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school, Amanda noticed a significant shift in expectations—not just from instructors, but from herself. She discusses the journey from following directions to taking initiative, where research projects became opportunities for self-direction and exploration. Amanda shares how this process required greater personal accountability, self-advocacy, and time management—skills that don’t just make for successful students, but for resilient professionals. A recurring theme in Amanda’s reflection is the presence of “imposter syndrome” and self-doubt—a feeling familiar to almost every grad student. Her advice? Lean on support systems, whether it’s faculty, peers, or campus resources. Amanda credits her relationships with instructors and the collaborative atmosphere at UM-Flint as key to overcoming her doubts and achieving her goals. For non-traditional students balancing family, work, and school, Amanda is candid about the struggles of finding balance and sets realistic expectations: it’s not about perfection, but doing your best with the support you have. Perhaps most eye-opening is Amanda’s emphasis on the importance of revision in graduate-level writing, advocating for multiple drafts and peer feedback. She reminds us that writing well is a process—and seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness. As Amanda’s story reveals, graduate school is not just an academic pursuit, but a journey of self-discovery, resilience, and community. If you’re pondering this path, want practical tips, or just need encouragement, tune in to this enlightening episode. Amanda’s journey isn’t just inspiring—it’s a roadmap for anyone aspiring to thrive in grad school. Take a listen and equip yourself for your own victorious journey in graduate school! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find Success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, to be able to learn from others in their experiences to help you in the journey that you're on. It truly is a journey because no matter where you are, there are things that you can do along the path to be able to prepare you, as well as to help you to find success as you go through that experience for yourself. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can talk about the graduate school journey that they had for themselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: Things that worked, things that maybe didn't work, things that they learned along the way that can give you some tools for your own toolbox and help you on the journey that you're on. This week, we got another great guest. Amanda Senti is with us today. And Amanda is the Writing Center Academic Program Specialist at the University of Michigan, Flint. She works with graduate students on writing and helps them with the journey into being a graduate school writer. Because it is different. It is different in that journey from undergrad to grad, there are different expectations. Not only expectations from faculty, but expectations you have to put on yourself as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: And Amanda is here to help students along that pathway. And she learned a lot of the things that she's helping students with in her own journey. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own experience and to have her share some of those today. Amanda, thanks so much for being here today. Amanda Seney [00:01:58]: Well, thank you so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:00]: Now, I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point, at some point in that journey, you made a choice. You made a decision that you wanted to continue on. You wanted to get a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point and tell me more about that decision and why you made that decision to continue your education. Amanda Seney [00:02:23]: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that is kind of a long story. I guess I should say that I started undergrad right after high school, but I had also gotten married at the same time. And my husband was in the military. We were out of state. There was a lot going on. Amanda Seney [00:02:35]: And then we had kids, and I was not able to finish my undergrad at that time. And so I had a very long gap in between when I first started and then when I came back to finish. It was about 14 years before I came back to U of M to finish my undergrad. So then I started, and I think I had something like 90 some credits that I. I brought with me. I transferred in. And so I really could have finished fairly quickly. But I was so much enjoying the undergraduate experience and I was learning so much about myself and just about the world in general that I thought, well, okay, while I'm here, I also think, I think I'll do a double major because I'm not done with this undergrad stuff yet. Amanda Seney [00:03:13]: And so I decided, okay, I'm going to do a double major. And so that extended my time a little bit. And I think it ended up being about two and a half years to finish my undergrad. But then I still just didn't feel like I was done because I was growing so much, just so much as an individual, as a member of society, as a. As an employee that I wasn't ready to be done yet. And I wanted to see what I could do at a graduate level. And so I just decided to make that kind of seamless transition at the time since I was kind of in the swing of school anyway at that point. So that was why I decided to keep going. Amanda Seney [00:03:43]: And I just thought it would open more doors for me. I didn't know what those doors were going to be, but I wanted to see where it would go. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:49]: So you went to that undergraduate degree. You made the decision to go to graduate school. As a lot of students do, they have to figure out for themselves what's the best program, program. Where should I go? You made a decision to stay at the University of Michigan Flint to go into a graduate program in English language and literature and continue your education there. Talk to me about that process for yourself and that decision for yourself. And what made you decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Amanda Seney [00:04:18]: Well, partly it was. I just really like the university. For one thing. I know that we have so many support system, and at that point I was familiar with so many of the resources. I also really liked the campus job that I had, which was working at the writing center. And I knew I could continue doing that because it is a great place and I love it and I wanted to be able to stay there. So that was part of the draw for the University of Michigan. I mean, honestly, goodness, it's just the quality of instruction is so high because I have been in other places, and they were also very good. Amanda Seney [00:04:45]: But I really like what I had seen here. I liked that I knew they were going to be smaller class sizes so that I could continue those relationships that I had built with instructors. There was just so much with that now. Why the English language and literature in particular? I knew I wanted something in the humanities because I figured that's just what's close to my heart, and that's where I wanted to go, I guess. And I was also definitely working on creative writing at the time. And so that English language and literature gave me a lot more opportunity to do creative projects, which was important to me at that time, period. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]: So every student that goes to graduate school has to make a transition. I mentioned at the beginning that there's transition in expectations and how you're taught, but also there's transitions in how you have to write, how you have to think, how you have to process. There's a lot of different ways of learning that happens as you go into graduate school and go through graduate school. Talk to me about those transitions for yourself. Because you found success, you got through the degree, you went through that process. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey? Amanda Seney [00:05:52]: I think one of the big things was it was a mental transition for me because in undergrad, you're used to doing what other people are telling you to do in order to get the degree. And like you, the instructor tells you what they want to see and you do that. And there is a lot of that in graduate school, too, but there's a lot more also of, well, you tell me what you want to do. I felt like. And so those research projects became very much, well, what are you interested in? And it was a challenge for me at the time to kind of get into that mindset of, oh, no, this is. I am making these decisions, and like, this is on me. And whatever that decision is, it's not good or bad or whatever. It's just whatever I decide, that's the direction we're going. Amanda Seney [00:06:31]: So there was that level of. I don't even know what you call it, like a personal accountability or you're deciding for yourself. You're very much more in charge of a lot more aspects of it. So there was that. There was also. I mean, one of the big transitions for me was that projects got bigger. I was very used to being able to do things at the last minute, which is what you end up doing as Many of the non traditional students know, right, there's not a lot of time and so things get pushed back and other things take priority often. And I could not do that the way that I had been used to doing. Amanda Seney [00:07:00]: And so that was a transition to try and make a better job of balancing things out and leaving myself time to do the things that needed to get done. And then there was also a little bit more of a transition to being able to advocate more for myself on those times when life really did get in the way and I could not get the things done to being able to go to the instructor and say, hey, I'm really sorry, but this is the situation. Is there a way we can work together and still make this thing happen? So that level of self advocacy and then whether they said yes or no, you know, that wasn't the point. It was really just being able to go to them, one professional, one adult to another, and say, hey, what can we do here? I think that was a big one to be able to look at the instructors not as this authority figure from on high necessarily, but as someone who we are working towards being in a professional relationship in a sense, like I am going into this scholarly community and I would like to be a co worker in a sense rather than this authority situation. And there's a lot more collaboration available in those areas. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:57]: A lot of students have told me that they face imposter syndrome as they go through that graduate school journey, that they have to hit it face on and they have to figure out for themselves, how do I deal with not only that imposter syndrome of saying, am I good enough? Should I be here? But also there's self doubt as you go through that program that you have to tackle as well. Talk to me about that for yourself and how that showed up for you in your own graduate study and how did you handle it? Amanda Seney [00:08:31]: Oh, goodness, 100% okay. Wow. I guess part of that was like I was used to dealing that with that from undergrad because again, because there was such a big gap between when I started and when I went back. And so I was very much a non traditional student. I'm a first generation student. My people don't do this. I really didn't know what to expect. And that was bad enough at undergrad, but then we went into the graduate level and we have like no level of familiarity with what any of this looks like. Amanda Seney [00:08:56]: So that was very intimidating. So how did I deal with that? So again, as I mentioned, right, because I had been in undergrad and because I was trying to use the resources available to me and the class sizes and all that. That I did have pretty solid relationships with several instructors who were always very, very encouraging and were willing to listen to me and just they always believed more in me and my abilities than what I believed in me and my abilities. And they were just excellent supports for that and for. Even when I didn't necessarily feel like I was, well, I didn't know what I was doing, but when I really felt like I didn't know what I was doing, they were there to be like, oh no, you're good, everybody feels this way and just keep going and you're going to be fine. So there was that, I guess so reaching out to the people around me as much as possible. I was also doing the graduate work. Some of this was still in like post Covid and so a lot of the classes were online. Amanda Seney [00:09:45]: I didn't have a lot of the face to face connections with other students. That would have been nice. I imagine if you have a cohort like I know a lot of the programs do, that would have been a massive way to deal with that, to be able to talk it through with people going through the same thing, literally the same thing with you at the same time. But other than that, it was really just trusting the process and going forward and taking those pieces of ownership where I could and being able to step back and say, you know what, I did do a really good job on that. That was a pretty cool thing. Look at me, maybe I am in the right place. A lot of self forgiveness had to happen in some ways. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:19]: Now you also mentioned you were married, you had kids, you were balancing a lot of different things as you were going not only through the undergraduate work, but also as you continued on through that graduate degree. Talk to me about balance. How did you balance school, work, family, other responsibilities while in graduate school? Amanda Seney [00:10:40]: Largely I did it poorly, I would say. Now I was in a sit where my kids were a little older, so they were able to do a lot of things on their own. They didn't need as much from me. I can't imagine doing this with young children. Like you would have to be really truly on the ball with a lot of things. And that impresses me so much. Yeah. So those of you out there doing that, you are awesome. Amanda Seney [00:11:01]: I mean, I did have a lot of support. My husband was very supportive. So he would pick up some slack where he could and then the kids were very much on board with now this is okay, Mom's got to go do this Right now. So we're going to leave her alone for now and then we'll come back later and we'll talk and do this right. Tried to carve out those times of, yes, I am available, yes, I am part of your life, but for this piece of time, no, I am not. And just to set some of those boundaries, I think was where we did. And then also so far as balance, like being able to step back and say, okay, maybe we don't take so many credits this time because there's been so much going on, looking at the realities of family life and other work life and things like that, and saying it's time to just take a little bit of a breather. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: You definitely need those breathers every once in a while. And having someone that can support you along the way is really important. Having those support systems in place is so important. Did you find as you were going through your graduate experience that you were able to build relationships with faculty or peers that were especially impactful in supporting you in this journey yourself? And if so, how were they supportive? And what did you learn about building those relationships that could help others in thinking about the support systems that they need? Amanda Seney [00:12:18]: I think I already mentioned that I did have pretty close relationships with several instructors because I had taken so many of their classes at that point. So how were those supportive at that point? Because we had the relationship, like they knew my situation and I knew some of their situation and we kind of knew each other's interests even, right? So they could be like, hey, I was thinking this thing, what do you think? I ended up on a separate project, that it was a grant funded project actually, because of a relationship that I had with another professor. And she was like, hey, here's some thoughts I have on this thing. Would you be interested in being part of this? And I said, yeah, that sounds awesome. So that was like, that was super cool just being. They were so supportive of whatever my interest was because we had that relationship. And so we were willing to be like, well, this is not exactly where I thought that project was going to go. But yeah, okay, let's see where it goes. Amanda Seney [00:13:05]: Because I trusted their advice and they trusted where I was at. So there was that in a lot of ways. And then also when I did need flexibility, could I have a couple extra days for this due date? You know, I'll get it to you before you start your grading on Monday, because I know that you start your grading on Monday. Then they were more likely to be like, yeah, okay, that's, you know, get it to me by this time, and then that'll be fine. So there was a lot of that with peers. I would say, yes, I did. And that was partly because we were taking some of the same classes together. And then we got, we did get to have some of that. Amanda Seney [00:13:33]: Not a cohort relationship, I don't think, but some of that talking about the different things we've been reading and talking about those things and everybody feeling the imposter syndrome and being able to say, do you feel this? Yes, yes, I do. Oh, good. It's not just me, you know, just a lot of the. It's not just me and being able to geek out on ridiculous literature things. We just had a lot of fun. So being able to find somebody where it's. You can enjoy what you're going through I think is hugely important. How to go about that. Amanda Seney [00:14:01]: I think I stumbled into most of mine. I will be honest, I'm not like a naturally social person. And so it's more of a. They probably pursued me more than I did them. I had to learn to trust a lot of people in ways that I hadn't been comfortable with. And that, I mean, that was a good thing, right? So being discerning, but being able to open up to, oh, this person really does think I'm kind of okay. And like, we really are enjoying the same... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/38049880

Scott Roy Shares the Realities and Rewards of Graduate School 09/01/2025

Scott Roy Shares the Realities and Rewards of Graduate School Are you considering graduate school or already planning your path forward? The latest episode of “Victors in Grad School,” hosted by , is a must-listen for anyone pondering the next academic step. This week’s guest, Scott Roy—Registrar at the University of Michigan-Flint and graduate of both UM-Flint (undergraduate) and Eastern Michigan University (graduate)—shares a candid, relatable perspective on what it takes to succeed in graduate school and beyond. The Many Paths to Graduate School Scott’s journey reminds us that there’s no single route to grad school. Originally envisioning a law career, he pivoted to history after discovering his passion. This decision wasn’t made lightly; he evaluated the available programs in Michigan, taking into account not only program content but also logistical factors like proximity to family and program structure. Scott’s story highlights how practical considerations (such as avoiding an extensive thesis in favor of a final exam) and personal life (being close to his partner) can shape academic choices. Graduate School Is a Different Beast One of the strongest themes in the episode is the significant jump in academic rigor and expectations at the graduate level. Scott describes being “a deer in the headlights” during his first semester—faced with daunting reading lists and heavier workloads, often while juggling a job. His advice? Go in prepared for a step up in both self-discipline and time management. The episode offers heartfelt reassurance that feeling overwhelmed is normal, and that students do eventually adapt and find their rhythm. Finding Balance and the Importance of Support Scott is candid about the challenges of balancing work, school, and personal relationships—and about sometimes falling short. He urges prospective grad students to carve out space for self-care, mental health, and social connection. Loneliness can be a reality, especially with night classes and busy schedules, but joining campus organizations and building relationships with peers and professors can make the journey less isolating. Skills for Life, Not Just for a Job Description Even though Scott ultimately found his career path outside of museums and history, he credits his graduate studies with teaching him valuable skills—like research, problem solving, and personal growth—that enhanced his qualifications and shaped his perspective. It’s a reminder that grad school is about much more than a degree. Whether you’re just thinking about grad school or already on your way, this episode is packed with wisdom, encouragement, and practical advice. Tune in to “Victors in Grad School” to hear Scott’s full story and gather the fuel you need for your own journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to have an opportunity to sit down, to talk to you, to work with you as you are going through this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every person that is thinking about graduate school has to go through a journey for themselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:40]: Whether you are at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about whether grad school is right for you, or you are applying right now, or maybe you've already applied and gotten accepted, There are many different places in this journey where you can do things to make the experience even easier. And then as you get into graduate school, there are things that you can do to be able to make yourself even more successful. That's what this podcast is all about. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you to allow for you an opportunity to be able to gain some tools for your own toolbox, but also allow for you to be able to prepare yourself a little bit better for the graduate school journey that you're on and that you will be on in the future. This week we've got another great guest. Scott Roy is with us today, and Scott works at the University of Michigan, Flint in the office of the Registrar. And Scott did his undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint, and then he went off and got a graduate degree in history at Eastern Michigan University. We're going to be talking about his own educational journey and allowing you to learn a little bit more from him. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]: And I'm really excited to have him here. Scott, thanks so much for being here today. Scott Roy [00:02:04]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]: It is my pleasure having you here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk to you. I mentioned the fact that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint, and at some point, at some point in that journey, going through your undergraduate work, you made a choice. You made a choice that you wanted to continue your education. Take me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head as you figured out for yourself that graduate school was the next step. Scott Roy [00:02:35]: So I actually started my undergraduate degree not knowing what I wanted to do. I went into my Undergraduate thinking. I was going to go to law school. And then as I was choosing a major for my bachelor's degree, my advisor had recommended either English or history because he said a lot of law students chose those as their majors. So I went with history because that's the topic that I've always enjoyed. My family and I, we've always visited battlefields on vacation. We were Civil War reenactors. So history was just my thing. Scott Roy [00:03:05]: So I selected history. And about maybe two years or so into my degree, I decided that I didn't really want to be a lawyer. And so I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did actually decide that I wanted to do something in the history field. So I went to grad school with the idea of either becoming a professor or doing something in museums. So when I got to be about a junior, I started looking at different schools. There were only four schools in the state of Michigan that had history programs at the graduate level. So I was between Central Michigan University and Eastern. Scott Roy [00:03:40]: I ended up going down to Eastern. And then actually when I got to Eastern, I found out really that my niche was going into museums. So when I was at Eastern, my degree was in. But I also got a graduate certificate in Cultural Museum Studies. During that time, I was an intern down at the Historical Museum down in Monroe. And I got to do a lot of cool things down there. I got to lead tours, and I got to create different exhibits, do a lot of the curatorship at the museum there. And I realized that was kind of what I wanted to do with my life. Scott Roy [00:04:13]: So I stayed through graduate school, went through, got my master's, spent a couple years actually after graduate school trying to find a job and in the history field. And so I started out, right out of grad school. I started working at apartments. I was actually a leasing consultant leasing apartments. I did end up getting a job in a museum for about four years up in Frankenmuth. There's a military museum that I was a curator at. And then eventually, once I kind of settled down and I started to have kids and have a family, decided that I needed a more stable job. That's one thing I found actually, in my field is that museum jobs aren't always very stable. Scott Roy [00:04:51]: They depend on millages and grants and different fundraising. And so I decided at that point that I needed to find something more stable. That's how I ended up at U of M Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: So, Scott, you mentioned the fact that you looked at a number of different schools when you were deciding on where you wanted to go to graduate school and you ultimately chose to go to Eastern Michigan University. Bring me back to that point. And when you were looking at different schools, what were you looking for and what made Eastern the right fit for you? Scott Roy [00:05:19]: So, so I originally was planning on going to U of M Flint actually for grad school because that's where I had gone for my undergrad. But like I said before, there were only four schools in the state that had a history degree and I knew that's what I wanted to pursue. U of M, Ann Arbor was an option. I didn't really look a whole lot at that. Part of the reason was because that they required 100 page thesis. I realized that I didn't want to necessarily get my doctorate degree. And those thesis tracks were more for students that were pursuing a doctorate. Eastern and Central had options where rather than writing the thesis, you could take an exam. Scott Roy [00:05:56]: And so I chose Eastern partly because you could take the exam, but also because my wife at the time, she was my girlfriend, but we ended up getting engaged. She got a job down in Metro Detroit. So if I was up at Central, I was going to be several hours away. Being down at Eastern, I could be closer to her. So that was an easy choice for me and I'm glad that I chose the route that I did. So Eastern, I ended up taking a four hour exam. They gave me a list of 40 books during my last semester and I had to go through and basically memorize the arguments made in these books. And then I had to do a four hour exam about a historiography on it. Scott Roy [00:06:32]: So that's, that's why I chose Eastern was because I absolutely hate writing. The thought of writing 100 pages sounded nauseating to me. So I decided I wanted to do the four hour exam based on the books. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:43]: You know, everyone that makes a transition into graduate school has to go through, as I mentioned, a transition. There is a difference in the way that you're educated at the undergraduate level. And then when you get to the graduate level, you have to kind of figure that out for yourself. Talk to me about that transition for you. When you went from undergrad into grad school, what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school? And then what did you have to do to maintain that success as you continued throughout your graduate school experience? Scott Roy [00:07:19]: So one thing that I will definitely tell you is that graduate school is a totally different beast than undergraduate school. Undergraduate school, you might have an assignment where you have to write five or 10 page paper and you might have a couple weeks. When I went into graduate school, I might have a class on Tuesday and I was expected to read a four or five hundred page book by like Thursday and have a paper done on it. So I remember my first semester of graduate school. I was like a deer in the headlights. The amount of work was totally different than what I had expected and that took a lot of getting used to. And on top of that, most graduate students, myself included, you have jobs as well. So I was working at the museum in Monroe part time, about 30 hours a week. Scott Roy [00:08:01]: So the workload itself was a lot more intense and that took some getting used to. The other things that I really had to adapt to was actually was loneliness. So being a grad student, I actually had an apartment on campus. It was just a studio apartment. I was by myself. I decided I didn't want to have a roommate because I wanted to be able to focus on studying. And looking back on that, I may have done that differently. One thing that I've found is a lot of graduate students, you don't see them on campus except for at night. Scott Roy [00:08:31]: Most of them have day jobs. I had a lot of classes with teachers who were taking night classes. So you didn't necessarily build the friendships that I built as an undergraduate. A lot of the students who were in class, they came from work, they went to their class and then they went home because it was 9 o' clock at night. So you didn't necessarily have the camaraderie that you had as an undergraduate. So I struggled with that to an extent. The fact that sometimes it could be a little bit lonely being in a city an hour from home, not necessarily knowing a lot of people. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:00]: On a personal level, sometimes students tell me that they face imposter syndrome as they go through graduate school. There's a feeling that they get into a program and they, they don't feel like they know everything that they should know or that they're prepared in the way that they need to be prepared. Did you ever feel that way? Did you ever feel and face that imposter syndrome or self doubt for yourself in graduate studies? And if so, how did you handle it? Scott Roy [00:09:26]: I guess to an extent, I've always been a good student as an undergraduate, so I wasn't necessarily worried about not being successful. But again, like I said, the workload the first semester, I didn't know how I was going to get through it. But then you start to realize, hey, you know what, I can do this. And you start to communicate with other students. In your class and they're able to help guide you through things and give you advice on how to be successful. And I mean, if you ever have problems, talk to the instructors. That's one thing I've found is a lot of times the instructors are more than willing to reach out to you because they know that you're a good student. Typically, if you're in graduate school, you have what it takes to succeed. Scott Roy [00:10:00]: Your professors know that you're a hard worker, otherwise you wouldn't be there. So I would say that if you ever have an issue to reach out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:06]: To them, every student has to find their path for themselves. They have to figure out for themselves how to balance all of the different hats that they wear, whether it's your academic hat, that hat that you wear when you're working. As you mentioned that you had that part time job that you were working down at the museum, you have your personal relationships, your friends, et cetera. So talk to me about balance and what did you have to do to be able to balance all of those competing needs of others and needs for yourself in regards to what you had signed up to do in graduate school? And how did you handle that for yourself? How did you balance that for yourself? Scott Roy [00:10:48]: So actually one thing I wish I would have done better is learn a little bit more balance in graduate school. So I felt wore out by the end of it. I would get up sometimes, I had to be at work by 8:30 and where I worked was about almost an hour drive from the campus. So I had to get up pretty early to do that. And then I wouldn't get home sometimes till, you know, five or six o' clock and then I'd be doing homework. So it didn't come encompassed a lot of your life. I would make sure that I saw my girlfriend usually on the weekends. And then beyond that, one thing I wish I had done a better job of, so this is my advice to you, is make sure that you take the time to, I guess, take care of yourself, both mentally and physically. Scott Roy [00:11:27]: One thing I found in grad school is I ended up gaining like 30 or 40 pounds by the time I was done with grad school. And a lot of it was on me. I just didn't have the drive anymore to make sure I got to the fitness center. It's very hard to do when you're working and you're studying and you've been at it all day to find the time to make sure that you go to the rec center and make sure that you do the exercises and stuff that you need. I wish I had spent more time doing that. But beyond that, I guess you just kind of struggle through it for a little bit and then you find yourself out on the other side in a couple of years. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:57]: I know the work that you're doing right now may not be in the museum field, it may not be in the history field, but you're doing great work here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And as you go through graduate school, it does change some of the ways that you think, process, consider things. How do you find that graduate school changed the way that you think or work or approach problems or life in general? Scott Roy [00:12:23]: So even though I'm not in my field, a lot of the skills that I learned in graduate school are skills that I've been able to take with me into the workplace. A big one for me, I would say being a history major, I know how to research. I mean, if you give me a topic, I can usually find the answer. I know what resources to look into, and that's been very helpful in my day to day activities at the workplace. Beyond that, I do think having my master's degree actually helped me get my job. So even though my job is not in the history field, working on a college campus is pretty hard to get into. And I think the fact that I had a master's degree helped set me apart from other candidates and helped give me that interview. So even though I'm not working in my field, I do think that having the graduate degree was important. Scott Roy [00:13:07]: And then it also, I guess, kind of helped me decide what things are important and my life. So, I mean, I could work in a museum. If I went and lived down in metro Detroit, I could get a job at the Henry Ford or somewhere down there. But I decided that, you know, I wanted to be close to my family. My family lives in the Genesee county area. This is where I've always been since I grew up. When I was a kid, I wanted my kids to know their grandparents and to know their family. So I think graduate school helped me mature in that aspect and kind of figure out what was important to me in life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:39]: So as you look back at your graduate education and you think about other individuals that are thinking about going to graduate school for themselves, what are some tips that you might offer them that would help them find success sooner? Scott Roy [00:13:52]: First off, be prepared for the increase in the workload. I would say, to make sure that you have a good support system. Make sure that you take time to be involved in activities on campus. There were a couple of clubs that I joined just so that I got to know some people. I would recommend that just finding different ways to be involved so that you do have a good graduate experience and do get to know other people on the campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:14]: Well Scott, I just want to say thanks. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey and I truly wish you all the best. Scott Roy [00:14:21]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:22]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37922945

Real Talk: The Challenges & Rewards of Graduate School 08/25/2025

Real Talk: The Challenges & Rewards of Graduate School Are you considering graduate school, currently enrolled, or maybe just accepted? No matter where you are in your academic journey, the transition into graduate studies is filled with both challenges and opportunities. That’s the theme at the heart of this week’s episode of “Victors in Grad School,” where sits down with , the Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Students at the University of Michigan, Flint, to unpack her path from bachelor’s to master’s to earning a PhD. Changing Directions and Embracing New Opportunities Dr. Snyder’s story is a powerful reminder that it’s okay to change direction. Originally planning to attend law school, she found herself drawn to the world of student affairs thanks to a mentor’s guidance—even at the last minute. Her advice for those making similar choices is simple and clear: don’t get boxed in by traditional timelines or expectations. Sometimes, taking the road less traveled leads to the most fulfilling outcomes. Transition and Mindset Shifts in Graduate School One of the main themes discussed is the significant mindset shift required in graduate studies. The workload becomes more rigorous and independent. Impostor syndrome is real, especially when it feels like you’re surrounded by “geniuses”—but, as Dr. Snyder notes, hard work, not innate brilliance, is the ultimate key to success. She emphasizes acknowledging your struggles and leaning on your peers, admitting you can’t (and shouldn’t) do it all alone. The Power of Mentorship and Peer Support Mentorship and support systems are fundamental. Dr. Snyder credits mentors with helping her identify opportunities—including her eventual career pivot—and prioritize demands when all tasks seem equally urgent. She also stresses the importance of relying on your peers, sharing resources, and working together, especially when preparing for comprehensive exams or tackling difficult coursework. Balancing Life, Work, and Academics Dr. Snyder also addresses the balancing act required in grad school: managing coursework, work obligations, family, friends, and personal well-being. It’s not easy, but she assures listeners it’s possible by knowing your priorities, using time management strategies, and, crucially, not losing sight of what you love outside of academics. Final Thoughts If you’re seeking inspiration and practical advice for your graduate journey, this episode is packed with candid stories and actionable insights. Dr. Snyder’s honesty about the ups and downs, her encouragement to pursue opportunities, and her message that “it is all doable” make this a must-listen for any current or aspiring grad student. Ready for more wisdom, support, and real talk about surviving and thriving in grad school? Be sure to tune in to this episode of “Victors in Grad School,” and join the ongoing conversation about success, support, and self-discovery in graduate education. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey. As you are considering graduate school, you're looking at graduate school. Maybe you've applied and you're and gotten accepted. Maybe you're getting ready to start. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: No matter where you are, you are truly on a journey. Because no matter if you are at the very beginning just starting to think about it, you're in graduate school or maybe you see that light at the end of the tunnel, there are things that you can do all the way through this journey to be able to prepare yourself and to help yourself be more successful in the journey itself. That's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to talk with you, to work with you as you are going through this journey, to be able to provide you with some, I'm going to call them, tools for your toolbox to help you to think about things in a little bit different way. We do that by introducing you to people that have gone before you. They've gone to graduate school, they've been successful, and they have had the opportunity to be able to learn some things along the way. Maybe positive, maybe negative, you never know. But we. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: But today we got another great guest. Dr. Julie Snyder is with with us today. And Dr. Snyder is the Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Students at the University of Michigan, Flint. And Julie has three different degrees. So we're going to be talking about the journey that she went on from getting that bachelor's degree to that master's, that doctorate, and kind of learning along the way. So I'm really excited to have her here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: Julie, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:01:41]: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor just to have the opportunity to share life experiences with graduate students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:47]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to talk to you as well. And I guess first and foremost, what I'd love to do is be able to go back in time because I know that you did your bachelor's degree at Duquesne University, and during that experience, I'm guessing based on the fact that you got a bachelor's in political science and then knowing what you got your master's degree in, I'm guessing you got a little involved in that undergraduate experience and you made A choice to go on and get a master's degree in student affairs and higher education. And I guess. Take me back to that point. Go back in time. Take me back to that moment, that moment that you figured out for yourself that the next step for you was graduate school. What was going through your head and what made you choose that graduate school was that next step? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:02:32]: Well, I actually went to Duquesne with the intention of pursuing a professional degree. It was. I wanted to go to law school. And so that next step was always in. In my mindset. And Duquesne ran a program where you could start law school in your senior year of your undergraduate degree. And so I was also. I grew up in the Detroit area, so I picked a campus that was far from home in its location in Pittsburgh. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:02:57]: And so while I was there as a student, I took a. At a law firm while getting involved on campus. And it was very late in my senior year, and it was the night before the lsat, and I was at an event, so I was involved in campus activities, and I was at an event and just really struggling with this idea that I didn't want to go to law school, that it didn't. Practicing the law didn't have the impact, I guess, that I wanted to have when I originally thought about it. And so I was sitting with a mentor, which is a key piece in this. In the process of pursuing graduate work, a mentor who said, do you know you could do this career path and stay within higher education and pursue the master's degree? And I had no idea. And so that was the start of the process. It was my senior year, and I was behind schedule on timelines, but I refused to take a gap year. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:03:52]: And so in that journey, I stumbled into a graduate program that accepted me late out in Pennsylvania, Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And that's how I ended up enrolled there, which was a. I believe everything happens for a reason. And it was a fantastic campus and a fantastic opportunity for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]: You know, I think it's important to. To hear what you just said, because sometimes people feel that they are bound into the. The regular norms of applying, of being considered, and if you're outside of that, that there are no options. And what I just heard you say was, no, that is not the case. You know, you can think about things that are outside the norm. To be honest, I did the same thing. I graduated in December of a year, went to a similar program to what you did, but the traditional model at that time for us was a fall start. So there were very few options or very few programs that were willing to take in those students mid year. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:52]: So I guess what I'm saying to you as you are considering graduate school is that don't let the traditional model always constrain you to what you consider when you're thinking about graduate school, because there may be other options for you and it may take you down a little bit of a different path, but still get you to the same point at the end. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:05:13]: Absolutely. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:14]: Now I know that you got through that program and you made that transition. And I guess before we talk about your doctorate, because I know you went to the doctorate. Further down the road is every student, every student, as they are considering graduate school and moving into a graduate school, there is a transition that you go through. Just like when you go from high school into undergrad, you know, you have to learn what it means to be a college student when you go to graduate school. Again, it is a very different type of way of learning. It's a different. There's different expectations, there's different ways of being taught. So talk to me about that transition for you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]: And what did you have to do as you transitioned into graduate school and what did you have to do as you went through graduate school to find success throughout the entire journey? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:06:00]: There's absolutely transition. And I can definitely talk about my own experience. I can also say as a supervisor of hundreds of graduate students, that it is real and it is legitimate. And I always told them to wait till October because that's when the transition really hits you. If you start your graduate program in August, October is when you're like, okay, I really now feel the crunch. And there is an elevated degree of expectation academically. And so the workload is more rigorous, more intense, and far more independent even than the undergraduate level. Then there, I think, is the idea that if you are pursuing the graduate degree, while you may have a graduate assistantship, a teaching assistantship, it's a level of preparation and execution. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:06:47]: So you might have a 20 hour a week position, but in order to properly prepare to execute in those 20 hours, it has that additional time constraint. And so time becomes even more, more precious at the graduate level. And the one piece to remember is that your peers are having the same struggles, they are having the same struggles and to really utilize one another to help divide and conquer. And so when we studied for our comprehensive exams, everybody took a major course and, and created the study guide and we shared those mutually, you know, because there isn't enough time to do everything alone. And so having the humility to recognize I can't do this alone. And being comfortable with that and, and really leaning in to find good support networks with your classmates, your cohort, however your program may be structured. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:35]: Again, I love what you just said there because I think that sometimes there's this thought of I have to do it alone and I can't ask for help and I need to prove that I belong here. And that's not the case. Especially in a cohort based program. If you're working along and you hit those comps, if you're hitting them at the same time, which sometimes in a cohort program you do, there's no reason why you cannot all work together to try to lift each other up because all of you want to be successful, all of you want to get to that end point and you want to support each other along the way. So you talk about some of those transitions for yourself. And I guess as you think back to your own graduate experience, what mindset shifts did you have to make to be able to be successful in graduate school? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:08:23]: I had to acknowledge, and this is probably filtered many years later in my language choice is in world. I think there are very few people who are really geniuses, but all of us have ability and academic ability and can be successful and do well academically. And so what the mind shift was about the work ethic and just recognizing that it would be hard work at different points in time and working hard through that and not allowing that struggle. Because sometimes working hard is a struggle to be an indicator of my ability or my self worth. I am not a genius, but I can work hard and I did well academically. And so for graduate students to remember, as you're struggling, it's not because you can't do it. It's because it requires that level of effort to do it well. And I think that's what everyone inherently wants to do, is to do well. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:09:17]: And those are transitions again, back to high school. The people who didn't have to study in high school or didn't have to do much effort in their undergraduate degree, that'll be a transition. And just keep at the forefront that you are capable of doing this and you just have to work hard. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:35]: And graduate school is not always easy. You know it's going to challenge you, it will make you question yourself. And many times students will feel a sense of imposter syndrome that they may not they, especially at the beginning part, but sometimes throughout it. Julie, did you feel that imposter syndrome yourself or did you have a feeling of self doubt through your graduate Studies. And how did you handle it? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:09:58]: Absolutely. And I would say they were probably more significant in my PhD program, but they existed in both degrees because what the master's level, you're coming into a content area that you, that you don't know anything about. Like, my master's degree is so unrelated to my major that you're coming into it. And so you, you question if you have the ability to, to do the work as you're coming through the coursework and as you're learning the practical components through the assistantship, but it's again, acknowledging how you're feeling and not isolating that and remembering that there are others that are feeling that way. So again, leaning into that support network and establishing good networking, finding a good mentor who can help you talk through those feelings of I don't understand why this is the way that it is, or I don't think I can do this, or I'm really struggling here, you know, someone who can be that sounding board. And I do really, really want to emphasize that mentoring relationship because it's that perspective of helping you prioritize. You're going to, everything's important in grad school, and it all is, but it all is at different points in time, and the mentor can help you prioritize so that you're not completely overwhelmed. And again, feeling like an imposter, like, there's no way I can keep up with this, and I'm just making it up as I go along. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]: I know you just mentioned the PhD and I want to talk to you a little bit about that because I know that after you got your master's degree, you went off, you worked for a bit, and at some point in those about eight years of working, you made a decision, just like you did at the undergraduate level, to take that next step. And at that time, you were working at Bowling Green State University, and you chose to go into a PhD program at bowling Green State University. But take me back to that point. What made you decide to kind of shake it up and go back to school while you were working and working toward that PhD? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:11:56]: So step one, I think, was taking the second to do that poor soul searching of what do I want out of my career? And so I'd been working in a functional area in resident residence life in housing. By happenstance, that wasn't even my background in my undergraduate level. It was just my first graduate assistantship. And it led into my career, but I knew I didn't want to stay there. I didn't want to stay in that area. And so in examining the pathways, the career pathways, and in talking with mentors, and I'd reached a critical point in my career, the number of years that I needed to make a decision, either a pivot to a different area or to pursue the degree, to broaden my skill set and to look at it. So that was step one is just really pointing your career where you have to think about what's next. I'm not one to be able to plan out the next five years, but it's important to think broader, like what is the end goal or what are the things that I want to be able to achieve in my career, and then finding the timing of when that feels appropriate. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:12:58]: And I'd reached a point in my position where I was bored. And I don't say that meaning I didn't have enough work to do. But there is a level of repetitiveness as you do this work, because everything cycles through the academic year. And so the timing was right. I was ready to learn more, move on, and really think about my career and professional development in a broader scale. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:22]: And I know I mentioned that you did choose to go to Bowling Green State University. There are a lot of different PhD programs that are out there in the country. What made you decide to stay where you were working and doing that degree at the same institution? Dr. Julie Snyder [00:13:37]: I was in intimidated from even before I applied. Like, I was prodded to apply by faculty, and retaking the GRE was a stumbling block for me. I think I postponed applying to the PhD program for a number of years. And so I already had a faculty mentoring relationship before I started the program. And that was important to me. I also knew that I wanted to pursue the PhD full time and really delve into being a student. I didn't want to work full time and take it part time. And that's what I needed for me. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:14:12]: And it was one less transition. So the program had a good reputation. Could I have gone to a program with a better reputation? Absolutely. But it would have added a level of transition for me that would have created more anxiety because I was already kind of anxious about again, can I do this? Do I have the ability to do this? And so that's why I chose not to have to also transition into a new community, into a campus, and feel comfortable. All of that was already there for me by staying on my campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]: Now, just like in the master's degree, there's another transition into the doctorate. Talk to me about that transition and you know, the good, the bad, the ugly in regard to what you had to Learn to be able to make sure that you were be getting past that, I'm going to say imposter syndrome, or that feeling of not being ready for it, to getting into the groove and being able to get through the program and be successful in that. Dr. Julie Snyder [00:15:08]: So we had a first semester course in our PhD program which really focuses on the philosophy of education and the foundations of education. And it was that faculty member who flat out said to us, my job is to break down the way that you think and teach you to think like a PhD. And that was the biggest transition, is to really transform the thought process, to not settle with what is, but to continually ask why. To always be in search of a level of truth that is research based, that is that exists through demonstrated findings and whether qualitative or quantitative. And really a level of critical thinking that far surpassed what I'd been asked... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37922545

Journey, Not Sprint: Real Talk on Graduate School with Antonio Riggs 08/18/2025

Journey, Not Sprint: Real Talk on Graduate School with Antonio Riggs Embarking on the journey of graduate school can be daunting, invigorating, and transformative all at once. On a recent episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast, hosted by , listeners were treated to an inspiring and candid conversation with , Associate Director of Student Career Advancement and Success at the University of Michigan-Flint. Antonio pulled back the curtain on his own educational journey, offering insights that resonate with anyone considering – or currently undertaking – graduate studies. It’s a Journey, Not a Sprint One of the key themes Antonio shares is that graduate education is a deeply personal and winding journey. Each student’s path is unique, shaped by individual aspirations, challenges, and life circumstances. Antonio himself returned to graduate school after working professionally, motivated by seeing mentors advance in their fields through further education. He emphasizes the importance of setting milestones, staying adaptable, and recognizing that detours and delays are a natural part of the process. Sometimes, reaching your goals will take longer than anticipated, and that’s perfectly okay. Mindset Shifts and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome Graduate-level learning demands a shift in mindset. Antonio candidly discusses the challenge of managing new expectations, particularly the leap from undergraduate to graduate research and academic rigor. He opens up about his own experiences grappling with imposter syndrome and self-doubt, reassuring listeners that these feelings are common. Antonio’s advice? Communication is key. Leaning on faculty, advisors, and your support system can make all the difference. Balancing Act: Life, Work, and Study A recurring message is the challenge of balancing academics, professional responsibilities, and personal life. Antonio shares practical strategies—from effective time management to building a strong support network. Whether it’s relying on family, collaborating with a partner, or carving out personal time for stress relief, his stories illustrate that success is built on both determination and the willingness to ask for help. Practical Skills and Lifelong Networking Throughout the episode, Antonio highlights the invaluable practical skills he developed in graduate school, particularly the power of networking, strong communication, and the ability to apply research and best practices in real-world settings. These aren’t just academic skills—they’re lifelong assets that have continued to serve him professionally and personally. Ready to Be Inspired? If you’re contemplating graduate school, already in the trenches, or guiding students in higher education, this episode is packed with wisdom, relatability, and encouragement. Tune in to hear Antonio Riggs’ full story and walk away with practical advice for finding your stride and building your own “toolbox” for success. Listen to the full episode and start your own journey with insight and support! Ready to explore more? Visit the University of Michigan-Flint’s graduate program offerings and tune in to Victors in Grad School for more inspiring stories and tips. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity every week to be able to talk through things, issues, concerns that you may have, and to be able to help you to be able to develop some tools for your toolbox, find some new tools for your toolbox, and identify ways in which you can be successful in this journey that you're on. I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every individual that is thinking about graduate school, that's applied to graduate school, that maybe is in graduate school, are going through their own individual journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: You may have similar things happen to you or alongside with other students in your cohort or in your classes together, but you're going to be dealing with them in the way that works for you. And what my goal is, is every week is to be able to provide you with some new resources, some new things that may allow for you to be able to find more success and more success sooner. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that help have gone to graduate school before you and have learned some things along the way. Some of the things might be positive, some of the things might be negative. You never know. But I have an opportunity to be able to learn from them and from what they learned so that you will have an easier time down the road as well. So this week we got another great guest. Antonio Riggs is with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: Antonio is the Associate Director of Student Career Advancement and Success at the University of Michigan Flint. And he's been at the University of Michigan flint for over 11 years now. But he's also had a wealth of other opportunities along the way that he has done, working with students and helping students in many different ways. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to him about his own educational journey to help you in yours. Antonio, thanks so much for being here today. Antonio Riggs [00:02:17]: Hey, thank you for having me. Greatly appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: It is completely my pleasure. Really enjoy being able to talk to people about their own experiences. And I'm really excited to learn a little bit more about yours. And I know that you did all three of your degrees at Saginaw Valley State University, but you did your bachelor's degree in business administration. And then you went off, you worked for a little bit, but at some point, at some point in that time between graduation and about four years later, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue on and work toward a graduate degree. Bring me back to that point where you made that decision for yourself. What made you decide that? And why was it the right time to go to graduate school? Antonio Riggs [00:03:06]: I guess during the time I graduated and I went to work at another institution, and a couple of my mentors were, they've completed their degrees, their MSAs, Master of Arts and Sciences degrees in Student affairs administration. And when you're around people that are in positions that you aspire to be in, through the process of networking, you learn about the different career paths, you learn about the degree programs, and people share their insights. And I kind of had a set to say, hey, I wanted to get a master's degree in the beginning, I wanted to go business all the way up, right? Get a business degree, get an MBA and then get a PhD in business and teach us some core university teaching, you know, business classes. But then I didn't go that route. I really stayed in student affairs. I enjoyed it. And I had lifelong friends that I've met in the student affairs arena. And so I kind of was like, hey, this is my passion. Antonio Riggs [00:04:01]: That's where I want to be. And so I was already a student at Saginaw Valley. I knew the program, I knew the buildings under the layout. So it was what, familiar territory for me. And so I saw that they had kicked off a Master of Arts and Sciences with certificate in Student Affairs Administration. And so that's what led me into that role. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:22]: Before I leave this educational journey that you were on, one question that I have is, I know that after you finished that program, you again, you went, you worked for a few more years working at a couple of other institutions, and then at some point, you decided to go back to school to get an education specialist degree. Talk to me about that. Why an education specialist? Antonio Riggs [00:04:46]: I am a person that like to set goals, and in my goal setting, I like to see my milestones. And so some people will say, yeah, just go jump in a PhD program and, you know, knock out the four to five years and get it over with. But for me, Saginaw Valley, you know, kicked off that MSA program, and I think it was a feeder going into EDD programs, right? The Doctorate of Education programs. And so I think they collaborated with Central, where, hey, you get your specialist from Saginaw Valley, you Can go right to Central Michigan, no issues. Every credit will transfer, and you can knock out the educational doctorate. And so that's kind of where I was at with that mindset of, boom, I do this, I see my milestone, knocked it out in two years and then move forward and go and finish that and educational doctorate degree. And so it's still a process. Things come up and you kind of life takes its bends and turns, but as long as you kind of stay focused on the prize and you complete it, I think you'll still be fine. Antonio Riggs [00:05:54]: And so my original goal was to complete my doctoral degree by 33. And so as life, you know, moved on, I'm 10 years past the deadline now, right. But I still keep it in my forefront. I always go back, look at the different programs. I'm always researching other schools to go to, which one has the best route for me. So it's still in the forefront, and I do plan to complete. But hey, there's no time, there's no exact end date that we have when life begins to life, as the young folks say, right? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:27]: Definitely. Now, you talked about mindset, and I think as you go into different types of degrees, different types of education, you definitely have to have a mindset shift because you're educated in one way as a undergraduate student. And then as you transition in, you have to make some shifts for yourself. What type of mindset shifts did you find yourself having to make to succeed in graduate school? Antonio Riggs [00:06:55]: Managing time effectively. So thinking about my undergrad experience versus the grad experience, I was more heavily involved as a student at the undergraduate level, right. So fraternity member, resident assistant, work study student. And so you always found ways to get involved on campus, but then as you begin to work and then go back to school, you don't have that time to commit to some of the experiences that you did as an undergraduate student. And so managing my time effectively, still staying engaged on a campus level because I was a leader within my fraternity on campus, I was obligated to do mentorship programs, advise the undergraduate chapter, so still stayed in touch there. But I would reduce my level of commitment to that organization while I was on campus. And then, you know, my number one priority is to still put food on the table. So I had to work the 8 to 5 and to make some sacrifices. Antonio Riggs [00:07:55]: Right. So I commuted, and so I just couldn't run home and grab a bite to eat. So most of my experiences during my grad program was to get out of work, grab a bite to eat, sleep in the hallway, and then go to Class. And so I remember as an undergrad, I said, you know, I will never be that person sleeping, you know, in the hallway. And then as a grad student, you know, when you make some of those sacrifices, you find yourself sleeping in the hallway just to get a nap because your class is from 6 to 10pm and then now you have to commute 45 minutes to an hour home at night. So managing time, effectively, prioritizing work, academic processes, and that's kind of where I had to streamline all that stuff and cut out on all the extracurricular activities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: I talked to a lot of graduate students and as they're starting graduate school, sometimes they feel like they don't belong. They feel kind of like an imposter per se. Did you ever feel that imposter syndrome or self doubt during your graduate studies, whether it was at the master's or the specialist level? And how did you handle it? Antonio Riggs [00:09:03]: Yes, I think when I hit that imposter syndrome within the program you would identify either a couple staff members or one or two faculty members that will be there to support you and making sure you communicate your thoughts to your advisor. So for me, my advisor was a faculty member in my program. So it was like a double whammy, right? So I would go talk to the faculty member about academic concerns and then the conversation would evolve into this is how I'm feeling is this program for me, especially when it got to that research process because I don't think the undergraduate experience prepared you for the level of research in that master's program that you would go into. And so that's where my self doubt came into play because I loved my graduate programs. To me, I think they were easier than the undergraduate experience, right? Because it's kind of like you read how do you put things together? And it was more of a articulating what you're learning and you're writing it in a paper versus the test and all of the essays you had to write at the undergraduate level, master's level, everything compounded into an end result. And so I kind of like that piece of it. But the research, I wasn't the best at the formulas. And so making sure I communicate with the faculty, my advisor, they would give me good advice. Antonio Riggs [00:10:29]: Dr. Clark is awesome. She helped me out a lot in that process, keeping me motivated, telling me, you know, things that I can do to stay in the game. So that communication piece, when you, when I felt like I wasn't going to make it and it just got hard, just gotta talk to people and Then once you tell people your mindset, where you're at, some people will come up with resources for you because the professors and staff, they want you to succeed. They don't want anybody to drop out. They don't want anybody to stop out. Basically, if you do, that's kind of like the choice you've made on your own. But I think the faculty and staff across any institution that you decide to go to will be there to support you in any way, shape or form, or within reason. Antonio Riggs [00:11:13]: You just got to communicate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:14]: So, as I mentioned, I know that there are transitions that happen going from undergrad to a master's degree to a specialist degree. At each of those points, there's different transitions, different expectations, different faculty, different perspectives, et cetera. As you transitioned out of your undergraduate work, out of your professional work, into your first master's degree, then to your specialist degree, you found success in those journeys. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into each of those degrees, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Antonio Riggs [00:11:55]: Be present, take an active role in my educational journey and not just let the advisor pick the courses for me. So because I worked in higher education and I was doing a Student Affairs Administration program, the things that I was doing at work transferred into my academic program. And things that I learned in my program, I was able to see it come full swing at work. And so tailoring to set myself up as I implemented new programs as Director of Residence Life, I kind of leveraged those experiences within my academic journey to do some benchmarking, to do some research, to write my papers on what I was experiencing in the workplace. So I was able to tie my academic and my professionalism together to make it more exciting, right? Because I wasn't just reading and writing papers. I was actually doing the work academically, the research piece, and then I would come to work and put it into play. And with both of those programs, they were practicum experiences where. Which is basically like an internship at the graduate level that I had to participate in. Antonio Riggs [00:13:03]: And so that kind of further gave me that I was applying what I was learning academically into the work setting. And so I think that's what allowed me to be successful, is working in the field that I wanted to get a degree in. And it all played out. It came together well for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:22]: Now, you were working full time, you were going to school, you had other commitments and things that you were dealing with. Talk to me about balance, because I know that sometimes Balance goes out the window when you make the decision to go to graduate school. But how did you find balance in being able to be successful in school? Work, family, other personal responsibilities? Work while you were going through those graduate degrees? Antonio Riggs [00:13:50]: Yeah, so when I first completed my master's, I was single, had nothing to do but go to school. Right. I didn't want idle hands, right, because you get distracted when your hands become idle. So I was always staying active, whether if it was at work, you know, you go to work. And then I, you know, came home and I was studying. As I said, I was a part of a couple of different organizations that took up my time as well. And so the balance there was still important, too, because you would get caught up into, you know, the leisure activities of just life. Because I was in school, anytime I got some free time, I went to hang out with some friends. Antonio Riggs [00:14:28]: But everybody needs those stress relievers, right? So I don't want to say, hey, you can't go and engage with friends and others, because that's the balance, right? Making sure you're performing well academically, making sure you're performing well professionally, but still finding time to release. Because grad school is stressful, right? It's a heavy time commitment. You want to do great, you want to meet those deadlines, but still finding time for yourself. Whether if that's just going to a social outing with some friends, some people will, you know, take a weekend getaway to a cabin. I like to fish. I go out and put my feet in the grass and ground or whatever you want to call it, right? To be one with nature so you can relieve that level of stress from the everyday work in grad school. So having that balance of social learning, I think is important. And then when I went and finished my specialist, that's when I was like, hey, let's take it to the next level. Antonio Riggs [00:15:23]: And so me and my wife, we pretty much did this whole tag team with the family. She did third shift. I was first shift. So there was always somebody at home. And she was in school completing her degree as well. So it was kind of like, hey, we're studying together. Everything we did, it was like, all right, let's cook dinner. Boom, we're doing it together. Antonio Riggs [00:15:40]: All right, time to study. Let's study. All right. Hey, I have this test. Can you take care of the kids while I do this? Yes, I'll do that. So having a partner, I think, is important, too. That can give you balance, right? When it comes to your journey, professional, academic, somebody to kind of help you along the way, whether if it's household items, somebody to bounce ideas off of, even though they may not understand what you're talking about in grad school, but at least you're able to voice your thought processes. And sometimes just having somebody to sit there and listen can help you sort some of the ideas or things that is going in your head and then you can problem solve accordingly because... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37860470

Balancing Work, Life, and Grad School: Real-World Advice 08/11/2025

Balancing Work, Life, and Grad School: Real-World Advice Graduate school isn’t just another chapter in your academic story—it’s a transformative journey that shapes your personal and professional life. In the latest episode of "Victors in Grad School," sits down with , Assistant Director of Facility Operations and Risk Management at the University of Michigan–Flint, to explore what it means to pursue graduate education as a working professional. Ervin’s path is both relatable and inspiring. After earning his undergraduate degree in 1991, he began working in higher education, but realized years later that to truly thrive—especially as an adjunct lecturer—he needed to further his education. That realization led him back to school after an 18-year gap, a move he calls “one of the best decisions” of his adult life. His experience offers valuable insights for anyone considering grad school, especially those who may feel it’s “too late” to return. Adapting to Change and Embracing Lifelong Learning One prominent theme from Ervin’s story is embracing change. When he first entered grad school, the world had shifted dramatically—classes were online, technology was central, and Blackboard replaced the typewriters of his college days. By asking questions, seeking support, and choosing in-person classes, Ervin exemplified adaptability and the willingness to step out of his comfort zone. The Importance of Support and Community Ervin’s journey also highlights the value of strong support systems. He credits coworkers, colleagues, and campus resources with providing the motivation and flexibility he needed to succeed. For working professionals, leveraging employer education benefits, as Ervin did, can minimize financial barriers and provide a smoother path forward. Finding Balance and Avoiding Burnout Graduate school requires resilience. Ervin candidly shares the struggles he faced: late nights, technology mishaps, and moments of doubt. His advice? Find balance, rely on time management, and take breaks to recharge. Hobbies like chess and cooking offered him much-needed mental space. Advice for Prospective Students For anyone contemplating graduate school, Ervin urges you not to wait: "The longer you delay, the harder it can be to get back in the groove." Apply yourself fully, build relationships, and surround yourself with people who motivate and support you. Ready for more inspiration and actionable insights? Tune into this episode of "Victors in Grad School" and hear first-hand how perseverance, adaptability, and a strong community can lead to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love that you come back, that you listen, that you are working to prepare yourself for this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Because no matter where you are in thinking about graduate school, applying to graduate school, going to graduate school, wherever you are in this pathway, it is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: And you're going to find that there are things that you can do along that path to help yourself to find success sooner. And that's what this show is all about. This show is here to help you to be able to make better choices, to be able to find new ways of doing things, to give yourself some tools for your toolbox that will prepare you to find success sooner. That's why every week I bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that can share their own experiences, sometimes good, sometimes maybe not so good of things that they learned along the way that can help you to again prepare yourself. This week we got another great guest. Irvin Levy is with us today. And Irvin is the Assistant Director of Facility Operations and Risk Management and Recreational Services at the University of Michigan, Flint. He did his undergraduate work at Central Michigan University and then did his graduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: We're going to learn a little bit more about him and about his experiences and his own journey in going to grad school. Ervin, thanks so much for being here today. Ervin Leavy [00:01:56]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to be able to talk to you today. I mentioned that you did your undergraduate work at Central Michigan University, and at some point during either your undergraduate degree or after graduating, you got an inkling, you got an inkling, you got that itch, you started to scratch it, you decided that you were going to go to graduate school. Take me back to that point. What was going through your head and what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Ervin Leavy [00:02:31]: Well, I got my Undergrad degree in 1991 from Central Michigan University. I began working here at the university in 2002, and I just had my undergrad degree after about seven years working in higher education. Education. That's when I realized I needed to further my education, especially on the technology side, as I was an Adjunct lecturer. So in 2009, I decided that I was going to go back to school and get my master's degree in technology and education. And that was one of the best moves that I ever made in my adult life was going back to school. Because when I came out in 91, there were not very many computers and we all had typewriters when I was in college. So when I went back to school in 2009, it was to. Ervin Leavy [00:03:17]: Everything was totally different. Work was being done on blackboard, everything was pretty much online. So that was an adjustment period for me. But working in higher education, I felt that was needed in order for me to be successful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:30]: So you decided to continue your education at the University of Michigan Flint. And you probably had some reasons for doing that. And I guess talk to me about the, your decision making and as you were looking at different programs potentially or why you chose not only the University of Michigan Flint, but why educational technology? Ervin Leavy [00:03:50]: Well, at the time I was an adjunct lecturer, I taught a variety of one credit classes. And what I noticed in the classroom was I wasn't that advanced in technology. And I chose that field because I thought it would help me in my teachings. And it did. I learned a lot regarding just working with the disabled. I learned the importance of using closed captions in my teachings. And that was the reason I went. And another reason I went is being an employee here at the university. Ervin Leavy [00:04:25]: There's a excellent tuition reimbursement program, so I had to take advantage of that. And it didn't cost me anything. Only thing I had to pay for was my books. So I couldn't let that opportunity pass me by. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:38]: You know, and that's something that we haven't talked a lot about, even though some people from past shows have talked about that, is that you may be out there, you may be working, and there could be educational benefits that your employer provides you. And I always encourage people to take the time to have a conversation with your human resources office to find out are there opportunities that are available because they could be there. You just have to make sure you understand what the strings that are attached to that money are. So make sure that you're asking the right questions and determine whether or not you want to be bound by whatever the rules are if there is educational money that is available through your employer. Because I've seen people come in and they're, they and it's a great program. And then I've seen others where they may have to stay with the employer for a certain amount of time or the money that they took becomes alone. So you have to watch that and just know what you're getting yourself into, which is great. Now every person goes through a process of transition as they go into graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:49]: You have to kind of figure out for yourself the differences, because there are true differences in moving from being an undergraduate student to working in the workforce to then going back into, for you, going back into graduate school. And at each of those points, there are different transitions. So you had transitioned out of being an undergraduate student into, into full time work and then you decided to come back into school. So there's a transition there. So talk to me about these transitions and what you had to do when you transitioned into graduate school to find success and what you had to do to maintain that success throughout your entire graduate school experience. Ervin Leavy [00:06:31]: Well, when I went to graduate school, I had been out of school for about 18 years. So when I decided to go back, everything was totally different. Like I said, everything was online, all assignments were on blackboard. We didn't use blackboard when I was an undergrad back in the 90s. And a part of what really helped me was I asked questions and I made sure I know what was helpful for me is instead of taking online classes, I preferred to go sit in the classroom. And I went and I sat in the front row for every class and tried to learn as much as I could. And I asked questions that was important. And I had some wonderful advisors and some wonderful professors that walked me through, which was very helpful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:17]: Now there are times, especially after going back after so many years, I talk to students all the time that have a feeling of imposter syndrome and self doubt that they fade as they go through graduate school, especially as they enter into graduate school. Did you feel that for yourself? And if so, how did you handle it? Ervin Leavy [00:07:39]: I had doubts, but I knew I needed to do it in order to be a better adjunct lecturer. I had a lot of doubts and I think just taking that step and just pushing forward and pushing through it, it became easier for me. But what I learned in the master's program is there was a lot more flexibility in the master's program. A lot of the students that were in those programs had families, they were working full time. So the flexibility that was provided for us was so helpful in undergrad. I don't recall having that type of flexibility. I recall a couple semesters instead of taking two, three credit courses, I took a three credit course and they let me break down the other three credits by doing one at a time, which was really helpful. And I was able to still work full time and go to school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:32]: When you're balancing so many things, sometimes it's hard to keep that motivation going. How did you stay motivated through challenging times, challenging semesters, you know, and get to the finish line in the end? Ervin Leavy [00:08:45]: That was tough because there were times when I really wanted to just throw the towel in and give up there. There was one incident where I was up till 4 in the morning working on some stuff and I ended up losing all of the work and I ended up going to bed and I got back up about 8am I contacted my professor and told him what happened and I just got back to it. But I was motivated. I really had to finish the task. And I just think that's probably one of my stronger points is completing tasks and meeting deadlines and those strengths really helped me through the program. I was not going to give up. I had friends that went through grad school. That was motivation for me. Ervin Leavy [00:09:27]: Also I had co workers to do it. So that was motivation for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:31]: I talk about balancing and you are working full time and you have family, you have friends, you've got lots of competing demands when it came to getting through your academic program. And every student has to find balance for themselves. Talk to me about balance and how you were able to find that optimal balance that allowed for you to be able to get through graduate school school in an optimal way. Ervin Leavy [00:10:02]: I think the most important thing is that I was already working here at the university and my supervisors allowed me that flexibility where if I had a class at 4 o' clock, I could leave my office and go to class and come back and I, you know, work maybe a couple hours later. That was very helpful for me. But I also had to go above and beyond. I had to stay up later. I had to give up some weekends. I remember a class I took, we had be here Saturdays for maybe four or five weeks in a row for half the day. And that was the class. But I had to make that sacrifice. Ervin Leavy [00:10:38]: But just working here at the university and already being on campus, that relieves so much pressure, which I know there are others who probably wouldn't have that luxury. So I was fortunate to already be on campus and was able to be flexible with work. And yeah, there were times when I even did homework while I was in the office. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:58]: You talked a little bit about times where you felt that burnout and you definitely had to push through. As you talked about how did you end up in the end avoiding burnout or recovering when you did feel overwhelmed. Ervin Leavy [00:11:14]: My doctor talked to me years ago. And he gave me some advice that stuck with me to this day. And it's over 20 years ago. He said, urban, if there are things you can change, change them. If you can't change them, don't worry about it. So I stopped worrying about all the stressful moments. I couldn't let it break me down. I would just take a break. Ervin Leavy [00:11:37]: I love to play chess, so I would go play some chess just to get my mind away from everything. I love to cook, too. I would go cook and just put everything to the side and regroup, recharge and. And I created a good balance. Just had to move some things around in my personal life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:53]: One of the things that important is the connections that you make, the connections that you make with your peers, but also with your faculty. Talk to me about relationships that you were able to build both with faculty and peers, and how did they impact. Ervin Leavy [00:12:09]: You as a student, my peers, I had some co workers here that were in the master's programs also. And we all stuck together. We motivated each other. And being an employee of the university, I was a familiar face. So I was pretty well connected. And the support that I received was just unlimited. And all of that played a factor in my success. And when you talk about relationships that I've built over the years, I'm very thankful and grateful for a lot of my colleagues and the people that motivated me. Ervin Leavy [00:12:43]: And what I learned, too, is about schooling. I feel like anything you put your mind to, if you apply yourself, surround yourself with people that can help you, you can accomplish those goals. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]: What would you say is the most valuable thing that you learned outside the classroom during your graduate school experience that helped you in the graduate school outside of the classroom? Ervin Leavy [00:13:08]: I think my organizational skills got a little better. I've always been an organized person. But when I got into those programs and got another 40 to 50%, it was almost two. Having two jobs, I really had to use my time efficiently and being efficient with every moment. And when I finished the program, I was a more efficient worker in recreational services because of those experiences. I'm very efficient with my time now, where before I don't think I was as efficient, but that's what I learned outside of the classroom. It's just even more structured. And being a former athlete, that's where I learned structure and discipline. Ervin Leavy [00:13:50]: But going to school and working full time, it's really the same thing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:54]: What's one thing that you wish that someone had told you before you started graduate school? Ervin Leavy [00:13:59]: I had a lot of people tell me I should go to graduate school. But I had been out of school for so long, it was tough for me to get motivated. What I think I wish someone would have told me would probably be, you need to get it done now, don't wait. Get it done now. And I wish I would have done it earlier. You know, I got here, the university in 2002, and I didn't take advantage of the opportunity to go back until 2009. So like I said, I had been out of school for 18 years before I finally decided to do it. And people told me all the time, you should go back. Ervin Leavy [00:14:36]: You need to do it now. Don't wait. The longer you wait, the more difficult it'll be to. To get back acclimated. And it was tough. I struggled in the beginning because blackboard, all of that was new to me, but I worked my way through it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:48]: As you think about other students that are thinking about going to graduate, what are some tips that you might offer to these other students, no matter if they were doing education or any other field that would help them find success sooner? Ervin Leavy [00:15:01]: Do your best. Apply yourself. Apply yourself 100% as if you're going to work every day. And that's what was helpful for me. I applied myself and take it seriously. When I went back in 2009, I was one of the older students, but I said, I'm going to sit in the front row every day. And I saw there were a lot of students that I didn't think were really, really taking things serious. And when assignments were due, they struggled. Ervin Leavy [00:15:27]: When group projects were due, they struggled. Apply yourself. Do your best. And I'm proud to say I finished my Master's program with a perfect gpa. I had never done that, but it was because I never applied myself either. I was a good student, but I never applied myself like I did when I went into the Master's program. And that's the best GPA that I ever had in my life. But it also helped me as a professional because I apply myself the same way in everything I do now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]: Well, Irvin, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey today, and I wish you all the best. Ervin Leavy [00:16:00]: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:02]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37668460

Navigating Grad School: Advice on Success, Balance, and Overcoming Doubt 08/04/2025

Navigating Grad School: Advice on Success, Balance, and Overcoming Doubt Graduate school is often called a journey, and for good reason. In the latest episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, host sits down with , the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs at the University of Michigan-Flint, to unpack what it truly takes to succeed as a graduate student. Whether you’re contemplating applying, awaiting your first semester, or knee-deep in research, the experiences and advice shared in this episode offer practical guidance and inspiration for every stage of the process. One of the key themes Dr. Parrill discusses is intentional decision-making—knowing why you’re choosing graduate school and how it aligns with your long-term goals. She recounted how, as an undergraduate at Central Michigan University, her co-op experience at Dow Chemical revealed to her that advanced degrees opened doors to more autonomy and interesting projects, prompting her to further her education immediately, rather than settling into a job right away. Dr. Parrill also shares her experience of choosing the right graduate program, highlighting the importance of considering personal and professional factors. Her decision to attend the University of Arizona was influenced not only by its academic offerings but also by where both she and her then-fiancé could study complementary fields on the same campus. Preparation is another recurring theme. Academic preparation, such as building a solid foundation during undergrad and leveraging work experiences, paid off for Dr. Parrill—especially when it came to placement exams and early graduate coursework. She stresses the importance of treating graduate school as a full-time commitment, dedicating oneself not just in the classroom but also through research, networking, and even tutoring or mentoring others. The transition to graduate-level work often brings feelings of imposter syndrome and self-doubt. Dr. Parrill’s candid insights into these struggles—and the importance of leaning on mentors and building supportive networks—underscore that such challenges are common, but surmountable. Finally, Dr. Parrill shares wisdom on balancing responsibilities and being intentional about time management, whether you’re juggling teaching, research, work, or family obligations. Her advice, derived from mentoring students with complex lives and her own experience, rings true for anyone seeking to thrive in graduate school and beyond. Are you considering graduate school, or are you currently navigating its demands? Tune into this episode for actionable tips, personal stories, and the reassurance that the path, while challenging, is absolutely rewarding. Listen to the full episode to glean more practical advice and inspiration to fuel your graduate school journey! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs for the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, we are here to talk with you, to work with you on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey, because it truly is a journey. And every one of us, as we think about graduate school, have to go through a process to be able to prepare ourselves, to work through the process of not only applying to graduate school, getting into graduate school, but getting through graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:41]: And to do that, there are things that you can do to find success in that journey, and that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences, people from different walks of life that have gone before you. They've gone to graduate school, they've been successful, they've come out the other end mostly unscathed, and they have been able to learn things along the way. Learn things about themselves, but learn things about the process of going to graduate school and what they had to do to find success. This week, we've got another great guest. Dr. Abby Parrill is with us today, and Dr. Perel is the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic affairs at the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:23]: And Dr. Parrill joined the University of Michigan Flint about a month ago. She has transitioned from working at the University of Memph for a number of years, and now she's here, and I'm really excited to have her here to talk to you about her own experiences and to be able to help you better understand some of the things that she had to learn along the way. Dr. Pero, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:01:46]: Absolutely. Thank you for the invite. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: Well, I really appreciate being able to talk with you today. I'm always excited to be able to learn from other people and the journey that they're on. And I know that when you were in your undergraduate work, at some point back at Central Michigan University, there was a point in time. There was a point in time where you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to continue your education, weren't going to just finish that degree and go off and work and maybe go over to Dow Chemical down the road, but you made a decision to continue on. Can you take me back to that point and what was going through your head and what made you Decide that that was the right step at that point. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:02:25]: Absolutely. So it's funny you mentioned Dow Chemical, because I was actually in the cooperative education program at Dow Chemical while I was an undergraduate student. Great learning experience. Let me see how to use what I was learning in the classroom in a real chemistry lab. But one of the things I learned was that the chemists that had doctoral degrees had a lot more autonomy and more interesting projects. And those with bachelor's degrees tended to do very routine, repetitive things that did require chemistry knowledge. And I enjoyed doing those routine, repetitive things as an undergraduate student because it allowed me to get really good at a few of the skills I had learned as an undergraduate. But I couldn't see myself doing that for 10, 15, 20 more years. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:03:10]: And there had been a panel held, sponsored by Central Michigan University, I think it was our student affiliates of the American Chemical Society sponsored a panel about graduate school, med school, or work as being some of the common directions someone might go after right after completing the bachelor's degree. And there were people on the panel who had started employment first and then gone to graduate school and others who had gone straight to graduate school. And they talked about kind of the challenge of getting into the work environment, getting used to a particular salary, and then stepping back to graduate school and going back to that kind of restricted income as being a very sincere challenge that they faced. And I decided that since I knew I didn't want to remain at the bachelor's level for my entire career, that I was just going to grit my teeth and move on and get the graduate degree right away. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]: Now, one of the things that I always am interested in is, you know, you decided to go and continue your education, like you mentioned, and you ended up applying to schools. But I'm sure that you went through a process of exploring schools to try to find the right fit, and you ended up finding a fit at the University of Arizona doing organic chemistry. Talk to me about that process that you went through for yourself to explore, but also to identify that final decision of the University of Arizona. And what was it about the University of Arizona that made it the best fit for you? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:04:48]: So searching for graduate schools was very different when I was searching for graduate schools than it would be for today's prospective graduate students. My first shopping for graduate schools was to go to the big rings that our undergraduate institutions had bolted on the wall. And they had big paper flyers hanging from these rings. And each flyer was for a specific graduate program in chemistry. And they had little tear off cards, and you could fill out your contact information and put them in the mail. And they would mail you information much faster. Now to use the all of the wonderful online tools you have, you can go to a website and shop instead of having to send off a card and wait. But another avenue of exploration is very much relevant today, and that's to talk to your faculty. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:05:36]: I asked some of my faculty. I'm looking at this three foot thick pile of programs and I have no idea how to choose. And I got a piece of interesting advice from one of my undergraduate faculty members who said, try somewhere really different for graduate school. Because graduate school is a limited period of time. Once you graduate, you have the opportunity to stay near where you go to graduate school or go somewhere else if you don't like that that region of the country or that part of the world. And I found that very interesting advice. And so as I was actually applying to graduate schools, my not then yet husband and I each agreed we were going to pick several schools. We were both going to apply to each other's schools as well as our own. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:06:25]: And we were going to see where we got our acceptances and then decide. And out of the schools I had visited and the ones that I had acceptances at that my husband was interested in, my future husband at the time, now currently husband, we narrowed it down to the University of Arizona and the University of Pennsylvania. I was going to go in chemistry, he was going to go in pharmacology and toxicology. And at the University of Pennsylvania, those two were on two different campuses, two hours apart. And at the University of Arizona, they were on the same campus across a major street from each other. So maybe a 10 minute walk. And given that we both liked both of the institutions and our respective programs at those institutions, we opted for the let's go where we can be together. And the desert Southwest is about as different from Michigan in terms of climate and native flora and fauna as you can get. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:21]: So it was an opportunity to try someplace really different. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:07:24]: Definitely very different. And I'm sure that along the way you definitely learned a few things about the the desert Southwest versus here and things that you like or don't like as well as when you're in the Midwest and things that you like or don't like. And I guess one of the things that I think about as you made that move, when you made that move down to the desert Southwest, there's things that you can do to prepare yourself both academically, professionally, personally to make a move like that, as you think back to that move for yourself, how did you prepare academically, professionally, personally, before starting graduate school to help you to make that transition into graduate school? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:08:08]: Well, I will say, while I didn't intend it to be preparation at the time, participating in that cooperative education internship opportunity where I could use chemistry daily in a work environment rather than just study it academically, and that repetition of a certain subset of chemistry was phenomenally important. So when I headed off to graduate school, the chemistry department administered a set of, let's call them placement exams. That isn't what they were called, but we'll call them that. And the ones I did the best on were the ones that overlapped with not just my academic experience, but my work experience. So that opportunity to use what I had learned and use it over and over and over really did cement what I had learned and make it so that I could be very successful on that subset of what I had learned as an undergraduate really shifted it into long term memory. And so the opportunity to go back and review things and use things in a different way, I would say the more you can view your entire undergraduate curriculum as connected and building transferable skills and use them from one class into the next, or find work experiences where you can use some of those things that turned out to be one of the best preparations I could have done, even though I didn't think about it that way at the time. And really the move across the country, there's no preparation for that. I will say I learned from the experience though, because I have now moved across the country again for the third time in maybe fourth time in my life. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:09:51]: And one thing I didn't do that first time that I have gotten better at every time is don't pack things you're going to throw away when you unpack them. Start your packing early enough that you're really being discriminating about what you pack. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:06]: That's great advice. I think everybody could probably learn from that and not just if you're going to graduate school. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:10:12]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:13]: When you transition into graduate school, there is a difference. There's a difference between the way that you're taught as an undergraduate student as a way that and the way that you're taught as a graduate student. There's different expectations, different perspectives. And as I mentioned at the beginning, you did get your degree, so you were successful getting through that degree. And I guess as you think about your transition in to the academic work, talk to me about what you had to do to set yourself up for success and what are some things that you had to do to maintain that success. As you went through the entire academic experience. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:10:51]: Yeah. So as an undergraduate student you will probably take, probably will have taken more classes at a time than you will as a graduate student, but that doesn't mean you should treat it as less work. So I treated my graduate experience the way I had treated the combination of my full time undergraduate program and my halftime internship at dow and really treated graduate school as the same time commitment. And less of my time was in class, but more of it was invested in other aspects of being successful. Reading literature in my field that I was studying so that I could learn what's going on in my field, find things that I could apply into my research project, just be generally well informed. I did some tutoring in part I did it for some money on the side, but it was also to really repeat those kind of early chemistry concepts by helping an undergraduate student learn them for the first time to make sure I was always fresh and I always had that solid foundation to build from. It also gave me some one on one teaching and mentoring experience that has been tremendously useful throughout my career. And so treat graduate school absolutely as at least a full time job, if not more. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:12:16]: Even if you weren't scheduled full time, find useful things to do that will help you advance through the program in the other part of that full time experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:27]: You know, one of the things that I think about when you talk about that is the fact that as you make that switch for yourself, many times graduate students talk to me about a feeling of imposter syndrome, especially as you become a graduate student, because you're looked at in a different way and you're held at a different standard than you are as an undergraduate student. And especially if you're in a PhD program where maybe you're being asked to teach or do high level research, there's expectations that are there. Did you ever face imposter syndrome or self doubt during your graduate studies and how did you handle it? Dr. Abby Parrill [00:13:06]: Self doubt? Yes. I don't think I knew the word imposter syndrome when I was a graduate student. I had been academically successful. I knew how to learn in a classroom. But it's different when you are asked to be creative and develop a project and contribute to a project. And it can feel overwhelming that how can I go look in the literature in my field and find what's missing, what projects still need to be done. How can I add something to this discipline when there's 500 journals and I'm 50 years behind? Well, hundreds of years behind. There's so much to Learn to know how my project that I'm supposed to be generating to be the basis for either a thesis or a dissertation. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:13:52]: How can I decide what my value add to the field is going to be? That certainly felt overwhelming. And luckily my first challenge at developing a project proposal was actually within the context of a class. So it wasn't necessarily my dissertation project. That was my first challenge to create my own project. And so the field was narrowed to the top topic of the class. And, and the t. The professor did a really nice job of giving us some strategies of how to identify a project that might need to be done. So there was a lot of guidance. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:14:29]: And so what I would say to anyone who's feeling overwhelmed and, and like you don't know how to start. You're going to have a graduate committee, you're going to have a major professor or a mentor. Go to them, share how you're feeling and ask for some strategies on how to get started. It's, it's okay to lean on your mentors. I have leaned on mentors through my entire career. And as I transition into my new role as provost, I had a one year opportunity to try out the role at a different institution as an interim. But trust me, I leaned on prior provosts that were still at my institution. I leaned on the president at the University of Memphis. Dr. Abby Parrill [00:15:08]: Now I'm leaning a little bit on the chancellor. As I, as I onboard into my new role. I still have mentors and I'm not going to say how long I've been in my career, but it's been a while. Or to borrow from the south, it's been a minute. And those mentors, I think can be tremendous supporters and they can support you better if you share a little bit of that vulnerability about how you feel overwhelmed because then they know kind of how to, how to reassure you and share maybe an experience where they felt overwhelmed and how they overcame it, but also some strategies to, to, to, to get going. Once you get going and you start making progress, it changes a lot. You, you see some progress, you say, oh, I can do this and a mentor can help you on that path to, to making some progress that helps you feel like you belong and, and that you were admitted to graduate school because you really are capable of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:05]: You know, earlier you said that someone told you it is a finite amount of time and it truly is a finite amount of time. When you're in graduate school, it is a finite amount of time. There are that are going to be thrown your way and you're going to be asked to learn a lot in that short amount of time. It may look like it's a long amount of time, but you're going to find very quickly that it goes very fast. Now, as you went through your own graduate experience, as you mentioned, you were there with your significant other, and not everybody has that experience, but everyone has to learn how to balance. Everyone has to learn how to balance school, work, family, and any other personal responsibilities that they may have in their life, while trying to also focus on why they're there, which is the academic experience. Talk to me about how you balanced all of those competing... /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37471965

Getting Ready For the Fall Deadline - See You Next Week! 07/28/2025

Graduate School Success: Jackie Halligan on Passion and Persistence 07/21/2025

Graduate School Success: Jackie Halligan on Passion and Persistence Are you thinking about graduate school, in the midst of your studies, or reflecting on your own academic journey? If so, the latest episode of the “Victors in Grad School” podcast is one you won’t want to miss! Hosted by , this engaging episode features , Human Resources professional at the University of Michigan-Flint, who offers a candid look into her path through academia and into a thriving HR career. The Journey is Unique for Everyone Right from the start, Dr. Lewis reminds us: graduate education is a journey, not a race. Jackie’s story perfectly illustrates this. After earning her Bachelor’s in Employee Relations at Michigan State University, she worked in the field before deciding to pursue a master’s degree. What sparked her return to the classroom? Mentorship and practical advice during an undergrad internship made it clear that a graduate degree was the “golden ticket” for advancing in human resources. Finding the Right Fit Jackie emphasizes the importance of researching programs to find the best fit. She didn’t simply chase prestige—she sought a university with a top-tier HR program, ultimately returning to Michigan State for her master’s in labor and industrial relations. Her advice to prospective students: visit campuses, explore programs, and choose the environment where you feel most comfortable and supported. Preparation and Persistence Lead to Success Jackie credits her undergraduate experience with teaching her how to study, manage time, and persevere through academic challenges—skills that were crucial for succeeding in grad school. She highlights the unique benefits of a smaller graduate cohort, where close relationships with professors and peers created a supportive network. Applying Graduate Education in the Real World Throughout her career—in manufacturing and academia—Jackie has leaned on her social science background, which helped her empathize, communicate, and balance employee and company interests. She stresses that passion is more important than chasing a paycheck. Decades into her HR career, she still finds her work deeply rewarding. Final Advice for Future Graduate Students Jackie’s overarching message is clear: Find your passion, research your options thoroughly, and set yourself up for success by choosing a graduate program that’s the right fit for you—not just the one with the highest salary prospects. Eager to learn more and be inspired by Jackie’s story? Listen to the full episode of “Victors in Grad School” and start charting your own path to graduate school success! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week you and I are on a journey. I say that every week. But it truly is the case that education and the journey, the what you're doing right now, whether you're at the very beginning just starting to think about this, or you're maybe you've already applied and you've gotten accepted, or maybe you're in graduate school, it is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:41]: And from the just ideation stage, where you're just thinking about it all the way to the completion stage can take a short period of time, it can take a long period of time. It really is determinant on where you are at your point, at the point in which you are today. And every person is at a different point, and it can take people different amounts of time to be able to get to that education. This podcast is here to be able to help you in that journey. It is here to be able to help you learn about things that you can do to be successful in this process, whether it's applying, whether it's going through graduate school, whatever it may be. I love every week being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone through graduate school before you, that can share their own experiences about what worked, maybe what didn't work as well as things that they learned along the way. And today, today we've got another great guest. Jackie Halligan is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: And Jacqui works at the University of Michigan Flint in the Human Resources office. And she has her own education journey that led her not only into professional work, but also to the University of Michigan ultimately over the last few years that she's been here. So I'm really excited to be able to talk with her today, to learn from her and to have you learn from her experiences as well. Jackie, thanks so much for being here. Jackie Halligan [00:02:04]: I'm excited. Thank you, Chris, for the invitation. I appreciate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: Well, it is definitely my pleasure and I'm excited to be able to talk to you today. And as I said, it is a journey that everyone goes on when they go and make a decision to go to graduate school. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Michigan State University, you got a Bachelor of Arts in Employee Relations and then you went off, you worked for a little Bit of time there, there was a point, but there had to have been a point in time, whether it was during undergraduate work, whether it was during that, when you were working, where you said to yourself, I need to keep going. I need to get some more education to get to where I want to be. Can you bring me back in time and talk to me about that period, that point, and what was the spark that made you make that decision? Jackie Halligan [00:02:55]: So if I go back actually to my undergraduate experience, I did two internships, one of which was at the city of Flint, actually in their labor relations department. And the director of labor relations at that time was getting his master's from Michigan State in labor relations. And his advice to me was that human resources is a very. Now, this was a while ago, but human resources is a very difficult field to break into. And that he felt it was important to get a master's degree to really be able to work in the field and have a good job. And he said to me, but once you get your master's degree, you'll be set, you'll have a great career, you'll do well for yourself. But it really is kind of like the, you know, the entry ticket, the golden ticket, as they call it, that to get a good start and get a good career in human resources. And so obviously, these number of years later, that's something that still resonates with me and certainly was a piece of the very important puzzle for me to consider graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:51]: I know that ultimately you made the decision to go back to Michigan State to get a master's degree in labor and industrial relations. And there are many programs that are out there. You could have selected any of those programs. So as you were working and just making those decisions about where you wanted to go, what you wanted to do to be able to make that next step. Talk to me about that decision making process for yourself and what made you ultimately decide that Michigan State was the place where you wanted to go? Jackie Halligan [00:04:24]: So I was probably a little bit different than other people in high school. I knew what I wanted to do. Probably a senior. I mean, it wasn't like I was a freshman, but probably by when I was a senior and I was looking at programs, I actually came across what at the time was gmi, which is now Kettering, they had a labor relations program. And I was researching and reading about it and just that was it. Like it just clicked and it made sense. And so when I started to really think about going into undergrad and wanting to study labor relations or human resources at that Time there weren't a lot of HR programs that you could get a degree in. And Michigan State was actually one of the top, still is one of the top schools in the country. Jackie Halligan [00:05:04]: You can get a human resources management or labor relations degree. And so I knew going into school, even as a freshman, that's what I was going to study. I, I've done it now for decades, quite frankly, I've never wavered from wanting to work in hr. So I just sort of did my research, found that Michigan State was one of the best universities at that time in the country to study this. And that's where I went. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:27]: Simple as that. And the thing that is interesting is I think that, as you said, you may be a little unique because not every student knows that they want to do human resources right from the get go as they go into college. And as you go through, through college, as you go through your undergrad, you move into your graduate degree, there is a different way in which you are educated, different expectations, different perspectives, different ways of learning. And you were successful in going through that graduate work and then going back out into the world after that and taking that knowledge into the workplace. Every individual has to find their path for themselves. They have to find the way in which that they can be successful in that transition, not only into graduate school, but through graduate school. So for you, as you think back to your graduate education, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you stepped into that graduate work, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate education journey? Jackie Halligan [00:06:32]: I actually would go back to undergrad, which set me up for success, because when I was in high school, I used to be able to get my homework done and never have to like, crack a book or do homework, as they call it these days. And so in undergrad, I had to teach myself to study. I didn't know how to study. And I never been taught, never had to learn. And so in undergrad, learning how to study, how to read, how to focus, how to stay dedicated, how to set your priorities, know everything that's going on from your class perspective, and when tests are and papers are due, that probably set me up in the best way to succeed in graduate school was just the fundamental of knowing how to study. I tell my children I struggled in undergrad in trigonometry, I'd never had it. And I, for whatever reason, the professor and I just couldn't, like, I couldn't grasp his teaching. It just didn't work for me. Jackie Halligan [00:07:23]: And I ended up Teaching myself trigonometry. I sat in the library for 13 hours at Michigan State, started on page one and taught myself trigonometry before the end of the semester. So just learning how to study, I think was important for me. But then I think about like in grad school specifically, and what were the factors that would help me succeed. While Michigan State is a obviously very large university and you get into those accounting classes in undergrad, you might have 200, 300 students. Graduate school, especially labor and industrial relations, is a relatively small school and they have about 100 students carrying on through the year. It's a one year program, or was at the time, and they would accept about 100 students each year. So it was a relatively small program. Jackie Halligan [00:08:07]: So there you get to know the dean. And it was a graduate school. The undergrad was in social sciences. So this was dedicated grad school. So you get to know the dean, you get to know the professors, you develop very strong relationships with your co students, your peers in the courses, because you, quite frankly, you, you see the same students day in and day out. Many of you are in, you might be in the same class three or four times with, you know, multiple individuals. So I think for that, for me it was more the, the uniqueness or the style, kind of the small scale of the program, that sort of personalized approach where they knew you, you knew them. And so like if anything ever came up, you could go talk to the professor and he or she would listen and understand if you were facing a challenge and try to work with you. Jackie Halligan [00:08:51]: So I think that for me was probably the most important key to success was that small scale. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:56]: I know that as you completed that degree, you went off, you worked in a number of different places over your career, you ended up here. As you think back to the education that you in your graduate degree, how do you find that you pull from that education on a daily basis? Jackie Halligan [00:09:13]: So both of my degrees technically are from the College of Social Science. So I have a lot of background in psychology, sociology, economics. And so I think I've looked at my background. I've spent a lot of time in manufacturing, US based manufacturing companies. So a lot of time spent in employee relations and so that sort of more social focus and developing relationships, being transparent, communicating, you know what you can when you can. I have people tell me like, Jackie, you can talk to anybody. Like I can go out on the shop floor and I can talk to somebody. I can talk to the Chancellor here very comfortably at UFM Flint. Jackie Halligan [00:09:50]: So I can kind of scale everybody and Talk to people in a manner that makes them hopefully feel comfortable. So I think for me it was more the social science part, an aspect of my degree that helped me connect with people and also be empathetic and understand when people are facing challenges. I actually had a peer of mine. This was literally like 20 plus years ago. I was leaving one company and going to another. And as I was leaving, one of my peers said, jackie, you from an HR perspective are the best person I've worked with to balance the company interest with the employee interests. And that's a fine line when you try to understand what's important to the employee and how can we help them succeed and have a great experience here. But also what is the company trying to achieve and how do you balance those two out? Because they're not always in parallel. Jackie Halligan [00:10:38]: They're not working in harmony all the time. So how do you balance that, maybe even be conflicting interests and try to find that best solution? And so I think all of that from my degree and that kind of mindset of social sciences helped me pretty much throughout my career. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:53]: As you think back to your graduate education and you think about the things that you had to do to find success, and you think about other students that are maybe thinking about graduate school, whether it's in human resources or some other area, what are some tips that you might offer to others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Jackie Halligan [00:11:17]: You know, one piece of advice that I give people is some people will talk about what I'll call chasing the money. Like, oh, I want to go study this because I'll earn, you know, good money and I'll make a good wage and I'll have a great way of life. And I always say, find your passion. Like, I've been doing human resources for 35 years and I just moved to Flint about. Back to Flint area about less than three years ago. And I really thought about, like, what do I want to do? It was an opportunity for me to do something different if I wanted to. And I actually took some time and reflected on it and I said, you know what? I still want to work in HR 30 plus years later. This is what I want to do. Jackie Halligan [00:11:52]: So I think for me, the most important thing is find that passion. Find what you enjoy. That's going to get you up in the morning, get you excited. You're going to find it rewarding. Don't chase the paycheck. It's not worth it. So I think that's it. And I think, you know, going back to what I sort of said about, you know, Michigan State and the graduate school is do your research, you know, look at multiple options, look at multiple universities, look at their programs, go visit the campuses if you haven't done that yet, and find where you feel. Jackie Halligan [00:12:20]: I hate to use the term home, but, you know, find where you feel most at home and where you can most likely succeed. Because pre grad and graduate school are hard, hard work and you want to make sure that you're setting yourself up for success. And I think finding the right fit from a program perspective is most important. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:38]: Well, Jackie, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. I completely agree with you on that finding that right fit and being able to do what you have to do to be able to take that next step. So thank you for sharing all of that and I truly wish you all the best. Jackie Halligan [00:12:55]: Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:57]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37471685

From Community Leader to MBA: Milanna Jones’ Journey Through Graduate School 07/14/2025

From Community Leader to MBA: Milanna Jones’ Journey Through Graduate School Embarking on the path to a graduate degree is a transformative journey, full of decisions, challenges, and opportunities for growth. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, host sits down with , a city council member for the City of Pontiac and a recent MBA graduate from the University of Michigan-Flint, to delve into what it really takes to succeed in graduate school and how it can shape your professional and personal life. The Power of Purposeful Decision-Making One of the core themes of Milanna’s story is purposeful decision-making. After completing her undergraduate degree, Milanna knew she wanted more than just academic credentials; she sought practical, strategic leadership skills to amplify her efforts in community leadership and nonprofit work. Her experience highlights the importance of understanding your “why” before taking the leap into grad school. Milanna emphasizes that taking time to reflect on what you hope to gain—beyond simply career advancement—can help clarify the right program and concentration for you. Resilience and Prioritization Milanna’s journey wasn’t without challenges. Just two years before starting her MBA, she faced a life-threatening medical event that led to a disability. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience and prioritization. Through deliberate time management—scheduling dedicated days for reading, assignments, collaboration, and, most importantly, self-care—she was able to thrive academically while navigating significant personal challenges. Her advice? “Prioritize yourself in this process, because you are the only thing that’s going to get you through this.” Building Connections and Skills for Real-World Impact The episode also explores how the right program can foster meaningful connections with peers and professors, both locally and nationwide. Milanna shares how her concentration in organizational leadership equipped her with vital skills in policy analysis, negotiation, and team motivation—skills she now uses daily in her role on city council and in nonprofit initiatives. Looking Beyond the Finish Line Finally, Milanna encourages prospective grad students to focus less on the distant goal of graduation and more on the growth that can happen each semester. By setting incremental goals and remaining open to new experiences and knowledge, you can maximize what you take away from your studies. Milanna’s story is a powerful reminder that graduate school is about more than just earning a degree; it’s about shaping who you are and how you impact the world. Ready to be inspired? Tune in to this episode of Victors in Grad School and start your own journey with a fresh perspective. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School. Milanna Jones [00:00:03]: Where we have conversations with students, alumni. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]: And experts about what it takes to. Milanna Jones [00:00:08]: Find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week, every week. I love being on this journey with you, and I call it a journey. I know I do, every week. But it is truly a journey because no matter where you are, you're thinking about graduate school. Whether it's you're at the very beginning, you're just starting out that process where you're thinking for yourself, is this the right thing for you? Or you could be further along in the process. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:40]: Maybe you applied, maybe you got accepted, you're getting ready to start graduate school. Or maybe you're in graduate school and you see that light at the end of the tunnel and you're figuring out what you're going to do next. Wherever you are in this journey, there are things that you can do to be successful. And that's why this show exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences, different backgrounds that can share with you the journey that they went on as they got their own graduate degree. And today we got another great guest. Milanna Jones is with us, and Milanna Jones is a city council member for the city of Pontiac, and she just finished up her graduate degree, her MBA degree at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have her here to tell her own story and to share that with you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:26]: Milanna, thanks so much for being here today. Milanna Jones [00:01:29]: Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis, for having me here. My name is Milanna Jones. I am currently the city councilwoman for District 2 of Pontiac, and I'm a recent graduate from University of Michigan, Flint. I received my MBA with a concentration in organizational leadership in August this year, August 2025. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:48]: Always a good feeling when you get to walk across that stage and get to that light at the end of the tunnel. So one of the questions that I wanted to start with was really to take you back in time, because I know you did your undergraduate work at Purdue Global. And at some point during that period of time, as you were going through that undergraduate degree in business administration, you were involved, you did a lot of different things, and you saw that light at the end of the tunnel. But at some point within either your undergraduate degree or that time between your undergraduate degree and when you decided to start in graduate school, you made a decision for yourself, which Was that you wanted to take that step. Bring me back to that moment. What was going through your head and why did you decide that graduate school was the right step at that time? Milanna Jones [00:02:37]: So going back to that moment, which would precisely be August 2022, as someone who was already heavily involved in community leadership, I was looking for the opportunity to really strengthen those leadership skills. I was heavily involved with nonprofit work, two different 501C3s to be specific. And I just knew that the MBA was the route that I wanted to go at that time. Although I had not taken the steps to pursue it. I wanted to the tools to lead more effectively, more proactively, strategically, rather than reactively, which is, you know, now reflecting, which is what I was doing at the bachelor level. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:16]: You were thinking about that. You made that decision, you decided that you were going to take that next step. I know there was about a year between that August 2022 that you mentioned and when you decided to start it in August of 2023. So during that period of time, I'm sure you did your research. You. You had to figure out for yourself, what, what am I looking for in this process? What kind of program is going to be right for me? Is it right down the road? Is it further away? I mean, you did a global program. Is it going to be in Michigan? Is it going to be somewhere else? Walk me through that process for yourself. What was going through your head in regards to the things that were most important to you? Why were those the most important? And ultimately you decided to go to the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:00]: What made you finally decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Milanna Jones [00:04:05]: So during that year gap between my bachelor's and starting with U of M Flint, I did take a couple of graduate level courses with Purdue Global. At that time, I realized that I wanted to look for a program, potentially one that was more interactive, Something that helped me acquire the practical skills of working with other people and additional academic rigor. Which then brings us back to the question of why um Flint? Um Flint was the only school that I applied to. It was my first choice, my first preferred choice. And although I tell myself, don't put all your eggs in one basket, I was determined to pursue U of M Flint. I read the website word for word many times while I was constructing my statement of purpose, going through the application process, and soon going on to meet with my academic advisor who marveled over how much information I retained about the program and each specific concentration. I knew exactly which one fit the best based on the description online and based on my conversation with others who have been in the Wolverine family now, it's worth mentioning that previously I did attend University of Michigan Dearborn and my mother and both of my grandparents are all graduates from U of M. One went to U of M Dearborn and two went to U of M Ann Arbor. Milanna Jones [00:05:28]: Which then brings us back to the question, why U of M Flint? For me, why am I the first to pursue this campus? And specifically it is because of the flexibility offered in the program and the high quality of academic rigor. There are many wonderful professors. There are two specific, in my mind that really pushed me outside of my comfort zone. While supporting me, I felt their commitment to really helping me learn and achieve the tools that I wanted in my personal life and in my professional experiences. So U of M Flint was, was initially my only choice. And now reflecting on this journey really solidifies why I gravitated there. That's where I was meant to be. That's where I connected most with the professors and with my peers. Milanna Jones [00:06:15]: I've developed close relationships with colleagues in Michigan and out of the state just from being here and working with U of M Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:23]: Now, for every student that goes into graduate school there, there truly is a transition that they go through. There's a transition as into graduate school. A transition as you go through graduate school and you found success, you graduated like we just talked about this past year. And as you think back to this experience in coming into graduate school, going through graduate school, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school experience? Milanna Jones [00:07:01]: It's interesting because of my unique experience entering the graduate program. When I started in 2023, I was just two years out from a life threatening medical tragedy. I spent months in the hospital. I am physically disabled. And it created a challenge engaging with other people while living in those circumstances. So what I needed to do to find success was really commit to prioritization and time management. And maybe other grad students say this as well, but I want to break it down specifically. So there were, there was some days where I just knew I had to focus on my own health and I couldn't look at any of the school related projects. Milanna Jones [00:07:46]: There were some days that I knew I needed to dedicate to reading, reading through the material before I even glanced at the assignment. So what I did was I was intentional with my schedule. I reserved Sundays for rest, Mondays and Tuesdays, depending on how the Weeks go for the schools, a couple of days solely for reading, and then after that had to commit to the work itself. And collaborating with others was more so full time. I would say I even did that on Sundays, which became more fun as time went on. But I had to, you know, really dig deep within myself and focus on my own self health in order to achieve success in the UM MBA program. And that is really one of the biggest suggestions I would give to any incoming grad student. Aside from the work and aside from, you know, the stress and the deadlines, you really have to prioritize yourself in this process because you are the only thing that's going to get you through this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:43]: So you did complete your degree and you are now a graduate of the University of Michigan, Flint. You've got that MBA in hand. Now that you've completed that degree. How do you feel that the graduate degree has prepared you for the work that you're doing in city council, but also the next steps in other things that you're planning to do in nonprofit or other work in the future? Milanna Jones [00:09:07]: Because I chose the organizational leadership concentration, the skills that I gained really most prepare me to do policy analysis and implement team motivation. I think that is worth mentioning twice. You know, emphasizing team motivation and implementing initiatives in a diverse community is one of the biggest takeaways that I have gotten from the U of M Flint MBA program. Specifically because those courses that really delve into negotiations and organizational behavior, those provide the real world skills and necessary knowledge to navigate any business transaction or potentially conflict in the community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:49]: As you look back at your graduate education and the experience that you had going through that graduate degree for yourself, and you think about others that are thinking about graduate school, whether it be for an MBA or something else. What are some tips that you might offer to others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Milanna Jones [00:10:12]: I would actually suggest that they step away from their end result because I think oftentimes individuals focus on a career or they have a job that they are striving to advance to. And I think that line of thinking really limits what you can take away from this program. So upon entering, I would recommend for students to look at the next year. What do they want to build upon in the next year and what sequence of courses are they taking to help them get there. And that's how individuals can truly align their interests and their personal values with the different concentration that are available at U of M Flint. Because the classes that you take, they're going to provide you with those tools that you need to advance yourself to the next level, of course. But looking in the shorter term, I think will help students or any incoming graduate student attain success faster and more efficiently, because we are looking more at the immediate next level, the pathway that you need to take to advance yourself each year. And that's how by the end of the two years, you get to the point of you're now a graduate, you obtain these skills in all of these different sectors because you took it one step at a time, or even break it down to one semester at a time. Milanna Jones [00:11:37]: What do you want to get better at by the end of the semester and then commit to that one goal at a time? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:43]: Well, Milanna, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for sharing this part of your journey. I know your journey's not over, but there's still time. There's still time and you'll be using this degree now for many years to come. But I truly want to say thank you for coming here today, for sharing these words of wisdom, and I wish you all the best. Milanna Jones [00:12:03]: Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis. It was my pleasure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:05]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare today. Be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at . /episode/index/show/85d5a8de-0188-4c24-8405-21b759e044b5/id/37177865

Victors in Grad School

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