Victors in Grad School
Victors in Grad School explores what you can do to find success in your own graduate school journey no matter what you plan to do. Through experts and individual interviews you will be introduced to what it means to find success and tips on achieving success in graduate school.
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Navigating Graduate School Success: Insights from Dr. Zachariah Mathew's Journey
04/21/2025
Navigating Graduate School Success: Insights from Dr. Zachariah Mathew's Journey
Graduate education is a transformative experience, one that goes far beyond mere academics. In the latest episode of Victors on Grad School, , Senior International Officer and Director of the at the University of Michigan Flint, sat down with to unravel his unique educational and professional journey. From his roots in India to accomplishing multiple advanced degrees in the United States, Dr. Mathew's story exemplified the essence of perseverance, mentorship, and making meaningful connections. This blog distills his advice and experiences into actionable insights that prospective graduate students can take to heart. Discovering Graduate Education as a Journey Dr. Mathew’s journey exemplifies how graduate education is not a one-size-fits-all experience. Reflecting on his initial career as a physical education teacher in India, he admitted going in “thinking I knew it all.” However, through mentors like his school principal, he discovered the value of continuous learning and how education is a voyage enriched by companions. Understanding that he "did not know enough to teach" and that more formal education would help him better serve his students, Dr. Mathew pursued graduate studies—eventually crossing continents to the United States. The Importance of Finding the Right Fit Choosing the right graduate program isn’t just about prestige. Dr. Mathew discussed how he meticulously researched and prioritized faculty expertise, affordability, and alignment with his passions during his transition from India to South Dakota State University. This phase taught him that graduate school decisions depend on the information available at the time—a reminder that the “right” choice always involves reflection on personal goals and circumstances. Leveraging Mentorship for Growth A resounding theme of Dr. Mathew’s interview was the transformative power of mentorship. From advisers to administrators, mentors played a pivotal role in helping him synthesize his skills and switch career paths. For aspiring graduate students, seeking guidance from mentors—faculty members or even campus staff—can be immensely impactful. Final Thoughts: Graduate School as a Laboratory of Growth Dr. Mathew emphasized that “graduate education is what you make of it.” Perspective-building, experiential learning, and finding ways to apply classroom knowledge to the real world define success. Graduate school should be seen not only as a means to a degree but as a platform to become uniquely capable of solving problems and thriving in a globalized world. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, we are on a journey together. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. You've made a decision that you're starting to think about graduate school. Maybe you've already applied and you've gotten accepted. Maybe you are in graduate school and you're looking for that light at the end of the tunnel. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:38]: No matter where you are, there is a journey that you go through when you go to graduate school, and there are things that you can do to be able to find success in that journey. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can share some of those experiences with you to help you on that journey that you're on. Today, we got another great guest. Doctor. Zacharia Matthew is with us today. And today we're going to be talking about his own journey from India to The United States. Doctor. Matthew is the senior international officer and director of the Center for Global Engagement at the University of Michigan Flint, and I'm really excited to have him here with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]: Doctor. Matthew, thanks so much for being here. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:01:21]: Doctor. Liz, it's truly an honor. I really love the way you started. It indeed is a journey. I know a journey where you're not alone and you find your companion who you can part the journey along. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:33]: Well, I really appreciate you being here. And one of the things that I love doing first and foremost is turn the clock back in time. And I know that you did your undergraduate work in India and you studied to be a educator and a teacher and ended up getting that degree. But at some point, at some point, either during that time and your undergraduate work and that time in the early years, when you were a physical education teacher, you made a decision. You made a big decision. You made a decision to go on with your education, to go to graduate school. And not only did you decide to go to graduate school, but you decided to come to The United States to go to graduate school. So I want to go back to that point. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: Bring me back to that point where you made that decision and what made you decide that you wanted to go further and go on and get that graduate degree? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:02:19]: I was 19. I was not even 20 when I had my first job as a physical education teacher at an international school. So I went in with this mindset at the age of 20 thinking I knew it all and how far away or far out I was in my belief that so I started off as a physical education teacher at an international school, called Malayadity International School. It's in Bangalore, India. And again, as you mentioned in the beginning, education is a journey. Every day you learn, and you need to find companions. You need to find the right people who can be part of that journey. First of all, my family was always supportive. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:02:58]: But at my institution, the principal of that school, Mrs. Anne Wario, she also started off as a physical education teacher in England. So she had a very different take for this profession of physical education. In India at that time, I'm talking about the early nineties, physical education was nothing but training. But Mrs. Warrior really brought me in to think about this as an integral part of education. Over the next six, seven years, I had a lot of opportunity to learn more through different short term courses, programs from Oxford Brookes. And I realized that there was a lot that I did not know. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:03:38]: And also I realized that I was able to be along with teachers who had got their degrees from institution, like from Ivy Leagues and be part of a conversation. So first of all, that what that led me to believe is that I was also capable of having conversations, informed conversations with professionals who had terminal degrees from institutions abroad. So that made me also think so one was I realized that I did not know enough to be able to teach. And second, I realized interacting with, as we said, you know, meeting the people all throughout the journey, I realized that I had so much to learn. And at that time, physical education was not a field of study in India. It was not a major field at all. So when I decided to pursue my higher education, I looked within the country. I did my PG diploma from India as well. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:04:29]: I realized that that was not enough for me to, one, have a career. Number two, provide proper education for the students whom I serve. That's when I really started looking to The US, UK, and Australia. And finally, I chose to do my master's in, exercise physiology in The United States. And then later, I realized that that was not where my heart and pulse was. I was more interested in the management, and that is where my pulse was. And later completed my master's in, sports management from Indiana State University. So this journey from being a teacher to finally coming to The United States took about seven years. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:05:05]: That is the first leg of my journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:07]: Talk to me about the search because every person goes through that process. And you said you could have gone to Ivy League. You could have looked at a lot of different universities to try to figure out where you wanted to go to get that degree in physiology and in sports management for your master's degree that you were going to be getting here in The United States. You ended up deciding to attend Indiana State University, but every student goes through that search process. You talked about you were looking at The UK and Australia and The US, and you're trying to figure out the right fit for you. But talk to me about what you had to do to be able to identify the right program, but also the right university for you to find that right fit. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:05:50]: That too was a journey that almost took me two years to decide where I really want to go. So one thing that you need to recognize is that you do not know what you do not know. You make decisions based on the information that you have at that point of time. Later, you may decide later, when you have more information, you may decide that that is not. So you may you need to make decisions that is right for you at that time. So when I decided to pursue my master's in excess physiology at South Dakota State University, I was looking for an quality and affordable graduate education that aligned with my interest area as well. So at that point, especially due from 1996 to February, I was very much into climbing and hiking up on the Himalayas and high altitude. I was very much interested in high altitude training. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:06:36]: So within while I was searching for the right graduate program, I found adviser or a faculty at South Dakota State University whose research was on high altitude training. So that was a key aspect at that time for me to determine which university to go to. So while I had a lot of push factors from India, which is like they do not India did not have this kind of a training at that point. The pull factors I mean, I could have gone to as you said, I could have gone to many, many places, but there were key aspects. One was affordability. Number two, quality of program. Number three, was there a person who could guide me who could guide me in my area of interest. So I started that program but it was once I was in the program and I learned more about what it really is because, again, I came from a place where excess physiology and physical education was it was not a science. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:07:33]: It was yet evolving. I when I realized that I had no passion dealing with blood and punched muscles, I realized my seven years of experience or eight years of experience as a physical education teacher, a manager, and an administrator was my real area. So then I really looked for somebody or an institution again that was affordable at quality education, but then this time, you can't make too many mistakes. So this time, what I did was I did a deeper research and found a faculty who was also an author, reached out to him, had a almost an hour and a half hours of conversation, and then decided that my seven years of experience is something that I wanted to capitalize on and decided to do my master's in sports management at Indiana State University. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:23]: Now along the way, you also made a decision that after you got that master's degree and you started working for Indiana State University, You decided to continue that education, and you continued that as a in a doctorate of philosophy program, a PhD program in higher education administration, and you stayed at Indiana State University. So talk to me about that because you you went on that journey of being a teacher in the classroom with with young kids, getting that exercise physiology degree, a recreation sports management degree. You're educating yourself seemingly on one path, and then you pivot, and you start working in higher education, and you decide to stay in higher education and get that additional degree. What made you decide to not only pivot in career, but also pivot in regard to what you were doing in your education to get that doctorate degree? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:09:24]: Yeah. So when I started my program at Indiana State University, I also realized that I had once pivoted from a program to another. So when you make decisions and when you kind of change those, it kind of can rattle you. So here too, I was a little rattled because I had lost some time. So I had to make sure that this decision was I had to make the best out of this decision. So what I did was I made, as you mentioned in the beginning, this is a journey. I made a lot of friends who were professionals in the field of higher education. These were the faculty and the staff of Indiana State University, and I made these connections through my work as a graduate assistant. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:10:05]: I was a graduate assistant for employee assistance program, the the department that was very much focused on providing wellness for, the faculty and staff. I made a lot of friends among professionals, and every conversation was a learning opportunity for me. And that's when I also realized that probably I could do better and I would be a lot more satisfied as a professional in the field of higher education working with young adults. So I started thinking of switching from K through 12 to higher education. And a lot of work that I did at during my graduate assistantship period at Indiana State University was pretty much what a full time employee would do. So that confidence and that experience and the contacts and connections that I made at throughout my journey at Indiana State really helped me switch over to the higher ed field. So upon graduation, I moved to New York. I was working for State University of New York in the field of sports, management. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:11:04]: And then again, you need to realize that you make decisions based on what the information you have. So my two years of experience pursuing my sports management degree, my experience as an international student and perspective building and the role culture play really introduced me to this field of international student affairs. It took me a little bit of a time to make sure that this was something that I really wanted to pursue. So after working for about seven years in the field of sports management, I decided to pursue my PhD in student affairs, especially focusing on international student affairs or international student affairs in higher education. Again, this transition, some I mean, I've many times I've been asked, why did you change your career? And I never see this one as changing my career because I've always been into student development. Again, I switched my means. One was sports. Now I'm really just pivoting that and getting into international student experience and making sure that I can provide an opportunity for those cultural understanding and student development. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:08]: Now with every move into a new educational environment, there are transitions that you go through. You went through some big transitions going from a system in India and getting degrees in India to South Dakota to Indiana to different types of degrees, different types of types of expectations, different faculty, etcetera. As students go through those transitions, they have to learn what it takes to find success. Talk to me about what you had to do in those transitions to be able to not only transition into the programs, but also transition through the programs, finding success along that journey. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:12:49]: So I think when we make decisions, we need to be sure why we are making those decisions. There is no right or wrong reasons. You make decisions based on the information that you have. Sometimes it might be career opportunities. Sometimes it might be that you just realize a new passion for a field of study. I think that most important aspect is making those connections of why you make a certain decision and see how much of your current skills can be transport or transportable is transportable. So you really take advantage of every knowledge that you have and then try and fit that into the new field of study. So having been in the sports field to or athletics, moving into international student affairs, again, for me, the connection was student development. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:13:33]: Now definitely, it is challenging, and that's where you find the companion companions for your journey. You need to find resources. And when you are challenged, you need to be able to you should and you should reach out to people who are in the field of this profession who can serve as mentors. In my I think all through this, if I, if if you ask what is that one aspect that helped me through all this journey, I had mentors. Not one. Multiple mentors in the field of higher education from day one. At Indiana State University, it was Doctor. Tom Sawyer, who was my advisor. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:14:12]: He was able he helped me make connections. When I say connections within the field of study, how I can really capitalize what I already know to the field that I'm getting into. And then as I said, as through my work as a graduate assistant, I made a lot of friends and family who literally took me under their wings recognizing that I had some potential but needed mentorship. So this included the Dean of Library, at that time, Betsy Hine, her family. Her husband was the Dean of was a Dean at Eastern Illinois. So they all kind of mentored me and held my hand as I was traveling through this field of higher education. And then again, I remember my, immigration advisor at Indiana State. He was the first one to really make those connections between what I was doing there to international student affairs and the role that office really plays. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:15:08]: And I was able to see that relationship because I had some experience, but it was not the same. I was able to relate it through this mentorship. And that was I mean, again, you know, today I work at an international office. Very often, students look our look at our office as that transactional space. I think it is very important as a graduate student that any office on this campus that you are should be viewed as a place where you can learn from. So that mentorship that I got at my previous institution really helped me through and make those connections. So I never felt that I changed my career. It was making connections and making progression. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:15:49]: And that is what it took me about five, six years to further make bond, build the strength of those connections and make a decision that I wanted to pursue my PhD in a certain field and then also pursue a lasting career in that field of study. So if you in one sentence, I would say is mentorship. Find mentors who are faculty, who are administrators, who we can talk to, whom we can trust, and that is going to be very, very, very powerful throughout your grad school journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:24]: Now you have found success. You got your degrees. You moved into your own professional career in international education. And as you look back at the education that you went through, many people would say, I see the connection in your doctorate to what you're doing today. But as you think back to all of the pieces, the building blocks, it could be the career steps, it could be the education. As you look back at your education and those building blocks, how did what you learn in all of those different...
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Exploring the Path to Occupational Therapy with Dr. Julie Jacob
04/14/2025
Exploring the Path to Occupational Therapy with Dr. Julie Jacob
The path to success is rarely straightforward, and ’s journey from military service to directing the illustrates that vividly. During her appearance on the podcast, Victor’s in Grad School, Dr. Jacob shared her unique educational and professional trajectory, proving that twists, turns, and detours can lead to meaningful and rewarding outcomes. Starting her career in the military with a focus on communications, Dr. Jacob completed her associate degree in information systems management while serving. Yet, her passion lay elsewhere. After leaving the military and initially pursuing a healthcare-related degree in med lab sciences, her path shifted again. A challenging math course in undergrad led her to explore other healthcare options, eventually discovering occupational therapy (OT). Through research and coursework, Dr. Jacob recognized OT as her calling, igniting a commitment to lifelong learning and service. The Transitions: Adaptability and Resilience Each stage of Dr. Jacob’s academic journey—earning an associate’s degree, undergraduate degree, master’s degree, and doctorate—required significant adjustments. From rote memorization in earlier programs to analytical and self-directed learning in graduate school, she had to evolve her study habits and approach. More importantly, she developed robust skills in time management and organization, crucial for balancing her studies with work and family responsibilities. Dr. Jacob emphasized that succeeding in graduate studies takes significant sacrifice, as students often face financial, time, and personal challenges. “Organization and time management were the biggest pieces that I really had to nail down in order to be successful,” she shared. This lesson resonates universally for anyone embarking on a graduate school journey. The Passion for Occupational Therapy Occupational therapy is a field dedicated to enhancing individuals’ lives—helping people overcome physical, cognitive, and emotional challenges to engage in meaningful daily activities. Its blend of holistic care and creativity captured Dr. Jacob’s heart, paralleling her own multifaceted journey. “It’s strength-based and the perfect blend of art and science,” Dr. Jacob explained, illustrating why OT was the right fit for her and why it remains a fulfilling profession. Advice for Future Graduate Students With years of academic and professional experience, Dr. Jacob encouraged students to anticipate the sacrifices and challenges associated with graduate school. It may be demanding, but her story highlights that the rewards—personal growth, professional advancement, and meaningful impact—make it worthwhile. By embracing resilience, adaptability, and a passion for making a difference, anyone can navigate the twists and turns of their educational journeys as Dr. Jacob did. Let her experience serve as inspiration for your own path toward success. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week as we, every week, talk about the journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every person walks a different path when it comes to looking at graduate school, considering graduate school, walking through graduate school to find that light at the end of the tunnel, leading you to the career and the dreams that you may have for your future. And the thing that is so important is that there are things that you can do right now as you are listening today to be able to prepare yourself for that journey and to prepare yourself to find success in that journey. And that's why every week we come back and we have an opportunity to be able to sit down and talk through this, but also you get an opportunity to learn from others that have done this before you. And that's why I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can help you to understand the journey that they went on to then allow you to take some things out of that, to look and consider what you can take out of it to build some tools for your own toolbox that help you along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]: This week, we got another great guest. Doctor Julie Jacob is with us today, and doctor Jacob is the director of the occupational therapy doctorate program at the University of Michigan Flint. And we were just talking prior to talking today about the journey that she went on, and it it's a circuitous path. And sometimes for for students like you, you may have a circuitous or you may have a circuitous path that will twist and turn along the way to get you to that endpoint. And we're gonna talk to Julie about that today. So I'm really excited to have her here and for you to learn from her experiences. Julie, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:02:08]: Yeah. Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]: Yeah. I am really excited to be able to have you here today to talk about the journey that you went on. And I talked about the fact that your journey was not a linear path, but more circuitous and the fact that you you had a number of twists and trends along the way. So I always start these opportunities to get a little bit more sense. And I know you got into your degrees first through the military, but then the journey began. So I want to go back because I know that you did your first educational experiences in the military as a part of the military. And thank you for your service. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:02:43]: Oh, you're welcome. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:44]: And then after you got out, you did some work. Somewhere along this pathway, you decided to get an undergraduate degree, and you went to Saginaw Valley State University. And while you were at Saginaw Valley State University, you made a decision. You made a decision whether on your own accord or not to continue your education, and you ended up finding occupational therapy. Talk to me about that journey for yourself, and what led you to occupational therapy ultimately? Dr. Julie Jacob [00:03:15]: Well, when I was in the military, I was in communications. And so my associate's degree, I took classes while I was in, and my associate's degree is in information systems management. So I took classes when I was deployed, when I was at my main duty station, as I could part time obviously, and got that accomplished. But I knew that I wanted to go into health care. I was kinda like, what do I wanna be when I grow up? And I knew I wanted a health care career. At the time, I chose to get out of the military because there was not a health care career that I could transition to and remain active duty at that time. So when I went to pursue my undergraduate degree, initially, I was a med lab sciences major, and I was taking all of the required courses for that major. And I happened to take, a more advanced math course and found it very challenging. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:03:59]: And I had never really been challenged in my undergrad. I I got very good grades, but sometimes that happens. And I did everything that I could, but I thought to myself, maybe this is not the right major for me. And so I needed to stay at Saginaw Valley just for, you know, financial reasons, stay stay in the general region where I was at. And I started looking into other programs that they offered, and I stumbled upon occupational therapy. And I had not really heard of that before. And as I did more investigating, I'm like, wow. This sounds like this career is right up my alley. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:04:24]: It's health care related. The curriculum looks really interesting, is something that I would be interested in doing. So I ended up changing my major to that. And at that time, it was for the profession, entry level was a bachelor's program. But as luck would have it, I was taking classes part time. And when I decided to transition full time, the profession of occupational therapy had undergone a shift to make it, master's level prepared entry level. So if I wanted to continue, I would need to get a master's degree. And so I was already invested at that point and decided to just continue my studies. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:01]: Now you had a lot of transitions going from getting an associate's degree in the military, to getting an undergraduate degree, to getting a master's degree and then getting a doctorate degree. And in all of those transitions, you have to learn something new. Every educational transition brings you to having to learn about those different educational, those educational environments and being able to understand the expectations, etcetera. But you found success in those journeys. You were able to get your associates, get your bachelor's, get that master's, get that doctorate degree. Talk to me about those transitions, the transition into undergrad, transition from undergrad to master's, transition from master's to doctorate, and what you learned along the way in those transitions as you transitioned in. And as you transitioned in, what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain your success as you transitioned through those programs to your ultimate goal? Dr. Julie Jacob [00:06:01]: Well, I think the way that you're assessed is different. I mean, I remember early on in my educational journey, you know, you're taking a lot of exams, and it's a lot of rote memorization of the content. So the way I was studying was different. As I transitioned into, you know, going from my bachelor's into my master's program, the work there was a shift in the in the expectation and the work. So it was more clinical reason how I was thinking about things. You know, clinical reasoning, critical thinking skills were more required rather than just, you know, studying for an exam and forgetting about it. I felt like I was building upon my knowledge. Every single class required me to kind of remember what I had learned before and apply that to the new content. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:06:40]: Organization was very, very important. Time management was really important. You know, you're you'd have big papers to write rather than just just studying for a simple exam. So allowing myself more time. I was also working. I I worked during my master's program and my doctorate program. I was working. So that takes a lot of balance, in order to manage manage my time and and devote what I needed to to my studies plus everything that else just to balance my home life. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:07:12]: So I think there's definitely a shift in the expectation. And then transitioning to my doctorate program, it was all self directed learning. You have everything kind of laid out for you. The expectations are laid out for you. There's a lot more discussion, but everything was pretty much self directed at that point. And a lot of that in the master's program too, of course. So, yeah, I think for me, like, organization and time management was were the biggest pieces that I really had to nail down in order to be successful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:40]: Now I know that from doing your undergrad and your grad at Saginaw Valley State University, you ended up at some point deciding that you wanted to get a doctorate degree and you went to Nova Southeastern to be able to do that program. Talk to me about the decision to go further than the masters, because you could have decided to stay with the masters, be a practitioner, work as an OT, and having a a fruitful career, staying and working in that environment, but you decided to continue on, get the doctorate, and go back and teach. So talk to me about that. And what made you decide that you wanted to go further and get that doctorate degree? Dr. Julie Jacob [00:08:25]: So I was a clinician for many years, and then I actually transitioned into academia. And I went to work in the occupational therapy department at Santa Clara Valley State University, which was a great transition for me. So I was in charge of all the field work classes. I taught adjunct for some of the, undergraduate prereqs in the occupational therapy program. But there's been a lot of transition still in the occupational therapy field with a lot of programs moving towards an entry level doctorate degree. So we still have dual points of entry in our profession. So you can enter the profession at a master's level or you can choose to have an entry level doctorate, which is like what we have at University of Michigan Flint. But if you have a program that has a doctorate, entry level doctorate, all of your faculty must be doctorally prepared. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:09:08]: And teaching at Saginaw Valley, I was not. So if they that program was going to transition and there was a lot of talk that they were going to transition and a lot of talk of the profession that they were gonna mandate a transition at that time to keep my job. I had to move towards a doctor degree. So I could have gone back to clinical practice, like you said. I mean, that's easy. I love treating patients and I love clinical practice, but I really grew to love teaching in academia. And I knew that I wanted to stay in academia. So So there's no question for me. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:09:35]: I'm like, okay, then this is what I need to do in order to maintain my ability to, to teach. I need to get my doctorate degree. And so then I explored that option and decided to pursue that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:44]: So one of the things that I'm kind of interested in is that, you know, you went from being in the military to being a full time student, to being a full time student and working, and, you know, you're balancing all of these different things like many students do. And as you look back at the experience that you had in your graduate degree in both your graduate degrees and you think about what you do today, how did all of this other experience lead you to where you are today? And how do you draw from that graduate school experience in the work that you do on a daily basis? Dr. Julie Jacob [00:10:20]: I mean, like you said, my path is a little unconventional, but I almost feel like a lot of students now, you know, there there's a lot of people out there that are completely switching career fields when their, their paths are not linear. I think that lends itself to having a lot of life experience, especially in a healthcare profession that helps you connect better with your patients. They say, you know, you can't connect the dots looking forward, but you can connect the dots looking backward. And I certainly can connect the dots to everything that I've done. I mean, even my experience in the air force in communications and having my associate's degree in information systems management, I got my doctorate degree in health science with a concentration in telehealth. And a lot of the curriculum that I studied had to do with technology and some of the things that I was doing way back in my associate's degree and in my my military service. So the dots definitely connect. So def that all served me to help me get to where I am today. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:11:13]: You know, my clinical practice being occupational therapy, I couldn't teach if I didn't have any clinical practice. Right? So, I think all of it kind of led me. And the fact that I went ahead and I got my doctorate degree, and I'm now teaching in a entry level doctorate program. And I was able to obtain a position at University of Michigan Flint, which I otherwise would not have. Had I not decided to go ahead with that, I would not have been able to have the position that I'm in today and to continue to teach and help shape future practitioners in OT. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: Now, like I said, you are the program director of the occupational therapy program at the University of Michigan Flint. And as you said, you found this passion, you found this career area for yourself, and not everybody knows about what occupational therapy is all about. And a lot of times it is a found career unless they unless someone has had an experience with an occupational therapy or has had a family member with an occupational therapy, occupational therapist in the past. So talk to me about occupational therapy and why are you so passionate about it and why is it such a great career area for you and for others? Dr. Julie Jacob [00:12:18]: Occupational therapy, healthcare profession that we're focused on helping individuals of all ages. So, you know, essentially from birth to death to palliative care, and we focus on helping people participate in meaningful activities or what we call occupations. So So anything that occupies your time is essentially what an occupation is that are essential to their daily lives. So that could be anything from your self care that you're doing, activities of daily living, work, education, which is the primary occupation of students at our university, their leisure activities, social interaction. So, but the ultimate goal of occupational therapy is to help people live as independently and as fully as they possibly can. Despite any challenges, whether that be physical or cognitive, emotional, or any social challenges that they may face. And OTs really address the whole person. It's a very holistic approach to health care. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:13:07]: So we address physical, emotional, psychological factors rather than just focusing on, like, there an illness or an injury or a disability. So we're it's strength based. And I think it it's kind of the perfect blend of art and science because occupational therapists can be very, very creative in their approach. It's very person centered. We utilize the things of the occupations that people do as forms of intervention, which is it's a really unique way of addressing the needs of our patients. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:34]: Well, I really appreciate you sharing that. Now, as you think of students, whether they are looking at going to become an occupational therapist or whatever graduate degree that they have an interest in, what are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Dr. Julie Jacob [00:13:50]: It takes sacrifice. It really does take sacrifice. I think sometimes people think it's going to be easy. I'm gonna do this thing and it's gonna be easy and I'm gonna get through it and but it really does take a lot of sacrifice in your time. Sometimes it's financial sacrifice. I mean, I have student loans. Nobody paid for me to go to school. I had my GI bill, which paid for a very small portion of my undergraduate degree. Dr. Julie Jacob [00:14:11]: And after that, it was all loans. So there was a definitely a financial sacrifice for me. There's a time sacrifice as far as having to work and balance all of those things. And even with my doctorate degree, I have children. So there's the sacrifice there, and they understood and were very supportive. But I think you need to be able to recognize that in advance and just have that expectation that sometimes not everything is gonna go perfectly, but it's worth it to put in the work. You just have to put in the work to get to your goal. And all of it is worth it in the end to be able to get there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]: Well, Julie, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your time today, for sharing your own journey, and I wish you all the best. Thank you. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education....
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Advancing Public Health: How Endia Crabtree Paved Her Path in Graduate Education
04/07/2025
Advancing Public Health: How Endia Crabtree Paved Her Path in Graduate Education
The Value of Graduate Education: A Stepping Stone for Career Development In a recent episode of Victors in Grad School, interviewed , an accomplished professional with a background in anthropology, public health education, and medical writing. Throughout the discussion, Crabtree emphasized how graduate education enriched her skills and positioned her for career opportunities. Her journey exemplifies how graduate programs provide more than just theoretical knowledge—they shape individuals into problem-solvers and leaders prepared to tackle real-world challenges. For Crabtree, graduate school was not only an academic pursuit but also an avenue to discover and act on her passions, from studying forensic anthropology to addressing public health disparities. Finding Passion and Purpose Crabtree’s educational path began with a fascination for forensic anthropology, inspired by her undergraduate studies at the University of Michigan Flint. Eventually, her curiosity shifted toward understanding health outcomes across cultures, sparking a passion for public health. Graduate school became the launching pad for her decision to pursue research and interventions focusing on populations affected by diseases such as cancer and HIV, particularly within underserved communities. For Crabtree, discovering a population-driven focus helped her align her professional goals with deeply personal motivations, such as her family’s experience with cancer. Leveraging Networking and Professional Organizations A recurring theme in Crabtree’s journey was the importance of proactively building relationships and engaging with professional organizations. From her undergraduate days to her postdoctoral fellowships, her active involvement in groups like the American Public Health Association and MedTech Women enabled her to network, share knowledge, and collaborate across diverse fields. These connections opened doors to opportunities and exposed her to cross-functional teamwork. Aspiring graduate students can replicate her success by joining such communities, contributing to their efforts, and gaining valuable leadership experience. The Grad School Toolbox: Collaboration, Accountability, and Adaptability One of Crabtree’s key takeaways from graduate education was learning to collaborate effectively—a skill she still utilizes daily in her current role as principal clinical product risk scientist at Boston Scientific. Group projects, though sometimes challenging, taught her the importance of accountability, shared goals, and strategic planning. She noted that these experiences prepared her for cross-functional teamwork in global settings. Advice for Aspiring Graduate Students Crabtree’s journey underscores the importance of entering graduate school with intention and an openness to pivot. Her advice to students? View classmates as allies, not competitors, and prioritize building supportive relationships. Whether through group projects or networking events, working collaboratively can lead to lasting friendships, resource sharing, and professional growth. Endia Crabtree’s inspiring journey serves as a testament to the transformative potential of graduate education, emphasizing the value of perseverance, collaboration, and a passion for lifelong learning. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, Doctor. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, we have a great opportunity to be able to connect and to be able to walk hand in hand together on this journey that you're on to get that graduate degree. Now you could be at the very beginning working to try to figure out, do I really wanna do this? Do I wanna get that graduate degree? Or maybe you're in a program and you're currently in there trying to figure out, okay, what do I need to do next? Or maybe that light at the end of the tunnel is getting closer and you're getting ready to graduate. No matter where you are, there are things that you can do to find success in this journey that you're on, and that's why this podcast exists. Every week, I love being able to talk to you about different resources, different skills, different things that you can do to be able to find success in the journey that you're on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]: And we do that through introducing you to other people, people that have gone before you, have gone and gotten degrees or are currently in degrees and have had an opportunity to be able to find success for themselves. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Endia Kramtree is well, doctor Endia Kramtree is with us today, and Endia is the principal clinical product risk scientist at Boston Scientific. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her and to have her share some of her journey with us in Endia. Thanks so much for being here today. Endia Crabtree [00:01:48]: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about this. I love you, Evelyn Flynn. It's my first stomping ground. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here today and to learn more about this journey that you've been on because you've had a bit of a journey where you've gotten numerous degrees and different steps to where you are today. I wanna start off our conversation by turning the clock back in time. I wanna go back to that undergraduate work that you were doing. I know you got a bachelor of arts in anthropology, but you also had a concentration in medical anthropology. And then at some point in that undergraduate degree, you made a decision to move on and get a master's degree. What made you choose to continue your education and get that graduate degree? Endia Crabtree [00:02:32]: 1st, I was interested in forensic anthropology, and I initially majored in biology because biology is the foundation of forensic anthropology. You're trying to understand the underlying causes of death or mortality for people whose remains it could have been discovered several months or years ago to centuries ago. And it was just really fascinating to me to learn about a person's life, what they've been through, any health ailments that they may have had. And as you need biology to know how to do that, you need biology, you need chemistry, you need all of these, what they like to call the big life sciences to understand that. And when I first started off as a freshman, actually before I switched over to major in anthropology, I took a biology class. It was organismal biology. 1st class as a freshman, 2005. And I walk in there, and there's over 200 students, which at the University of Michigan Flint campus, I did not expect. Endia Crabtree [00:03:38]: And it was a difficult class, but it was a good class. I did learn a lot. But after taking that class and went into my 2nd semester, I took cultural anthropology, and I also took a an archaeology class, and that is actually what introduced me to anthropology itself. So even though I've heard of forensic anthropology, I did not know about the anthropology part about the about anthropology. I just thought of it as, you know, another science. And at that time, in 2005, CSI and all of those programs were huge for that time. That was a big deal. So myself among and other people were really interested in taking that path, but I specifically it was myself and only myself who was doing forensics. Endia Crabtree [00:04:25]: So, anyway, to back up a little bit, I switched out of biology and decided to major in anthropology because, a, I connected with the professors immediately. I liked my classmates more. The classes were smaller. And and it which is part of why I went to University of Michigan Flint. I've always loved Michigan. I live and breathe, bleed blue all day, but I needed to do it in a smaller space. It's on a smaller campus. But with that said, at being at University of Michigan Flint versus at Narber, you do have smaller labs. Endia Crabtree [00:04:57]: You will have less people to interact with for something as niche as forensic anthropology. So, anyway, to fast forward, I'd say going on to my senior year, I've taken by my senior year, of course, I've taken pretty much every class in my major. I even did archaeology field school at one point, which was really cool, and that actually introduced me to paleontology. And I also love that, but there was something about studying and working with people who are deceased that over time became it was sad and it was dark in the lab. It was a little boring. You know, I just didn't enjoy it as much even though I did love my professor who was doctor Beverly Smith. I learned over time that it just wasn't for me. I was like, well, maybe I I love anthropology, but maybe I should think about how can I contribute to this world by helping people who are alive? And so medical anthropology, my senior year, and it was there that I actually got exposed to public health and exposed to health, health outcomes, wellness, the understanding of what health is, how is it how it's defined, what wellness means from a cross cultural perspective, from perspective outside of the United States, so outside of a permiritricism, outside of US and western thoughts, that really blew my mind. Endia Crabtree [00:06:19]: I could not believe that there was a concentration, a profession, a pathway that even exposes you to health and the meaning of that across cultures. And so I took that class. I learned about Eastern medicine. I learned about medicine in pretty much every continent, and it was there that I decided that, public health, this is what I want to do. This is where I need to be. I am passionate about health and helping people. And at the time, University of Michigan Flint offered, MS in health education. And my senior year of undergrad, I actually took the first grad course, which was health behavior theory or something along those lines. Endia Crabtree [00:07:06]: It may have a different name by now, but health behavior theory with doctor Shan Parker. And I was given the opportunity to take that course, which is the first course in the program to see how I would do before I was granted full enrollment. It was extremely difficult, but I loved it. I learned so much. That was a huge pivot from the way that I had to think to the way that I had to write. And I went from more of a qualitative thinker to a quantitative thinker, and the rest is history. And it was also there that I learned that I need to pick a population, which for me at the time was HIV and STI among black or African Americans and other minorities. Just trying to understand the impact of that disease from both a knowledge standpoint. Endia Crabtree [00:07:54]: So what do people already know about this? What is the understanding of transmission and treatment and the long term effects of that? And I chose that disease ailment at the time because that is what my adviser was working on. And so and so that's why I decided to go into that program. I did the MS in health education or public health education as I like to put it. I like to put the public health in there instead of just leaving it as health education is often confused with gym teacher, which is an honorable pathway and profession, but it is often confused. So saying public health education over just health education was better understood by the public when I talk to people about it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:34]: So I know that you completed that degree, You finished that program up. You went. You did some work out in the field. You you did a number of different things over the years. And at some point, between the end of that degree and the late 20 tens, you decided to get another degree, and you decided to start a program toward a doctorate of philosophy, a PhD in public health education. So talk to me about that and why you made the decision that you wanted to go further and go from having that master of science in public health education to then pushing yourself to getting a doctor degree in in public education as well. Endia Crabtree [00:09:16]: So I knew pretty early on, honestly, as an undergrad that I would need to pursue as high education as possible. I knew at least my junior year, even before I decided which pathway that I wanted to take, I always knew I need to get a PhD. Anthropology is not a major or at least at the time, and I I wanna make that clear for back in 2005 to 2010. If you major in anthropology, you are majoring in a profession that you do need to get graduate education on. At the time, I knew of no other anthropologist regardless of their chosen pathway, whether it be cultural, forensic, biological anthropology, linguistics, They all went on for a PhD. And even though I did pivot from anthropology to public health, it's the same story. Though public health professionals can stop and often do stop at an Miles per hour, which is totally fine, I knew that I wanted to do research. And if I was gonna be taken seriously as a research, and honestly, as a black woman, I felt that I needed to do it all. Endia Crabtree [00:10:30]: Like, I needed to go as far as possible so that not only will I give myself access to several jobs in public health, in the sciences, as a scientist, as a a person who's, you know, taking seriously as a researcher that I would not leave myself any gaps, that that I would not leave any room for denial for a particular position because I don't have that. And wanting to be a scientist slash researcher going to get a PhD, it trains you and exposes you to what that actual environment looks like regardless of the path chosen. When I was in my 2nd year of the MS in public health education program when I realized that I wanted to pivot from HIV to cancer. So I actually have a family history of cancer. My mother had colorectal cancer when I was 13, stage 3, and she was only 42 at the time. So familiar with Chadwick Boseman, she was literally in the same boat as him, but she's still with us today. Believe it or not, she what was that? 20,021,001 when she was diagnosed, but it made a huge impact on me. I didn't just wanna be behind the scenes to find a treatment for cancer. Endia Crabtree [00:11:49]: I also wanted to be like I wanted to understand the the who, what, when, where, why. I wanted to understand the cause the cause and effect. What causes this? Why are certain populations more affected than others? Why was my mother diagnosed so early? Was it the job that she worked? Is it the ZIP code that we lived in? I mean, I had these questions. These are my these are the questions that I had. I wanted to understand, and she's not the only person my family affected. I am from Flint, Michigan. I grew up there. My parents worked in GM. Endia Crabtree [00:12:19]: My father's a Vietnam vet. A lot of people were inflicted with cancer there. And so, no, this is my life. I never did it for accolades either. I just wanted to have opportunity. But, yes, I pivoted my my second year second and last year of the MS program and pursued a PhD in public health education, but I had a concentration in epidemiology. And I concentrate in epidemiology so that I can, you know, focus on the who, what, when, where, the distribution of the disease, who's affected, why why is a person in ZIP code a, Why are they experiencing later diagnoses in a person in ZIP code b? Is it because of money, socioeconomic status? Is it simply because a person is a person of color, or is it because of where they live and their circumstances and the food that they have access to? So these are real questions that are being asked and are being researched, and I wanted to know not just what causes it, but how does it come back. So I was on the survivorship end of the spectrum. Endia Crabtree [00:13:20]: And while I was in school studying this, having all this on my mind, trying to figure it out, I was also a full time employee at FedEx. I am one of the rare few who went school full time and worked full time. I needed to make money, and I also needed to get this degree. And I still finished on time somehow. But because I was working full time, I was not a traditional PhD student, so I was not able to dedicate as much time to research and publishing outside of my dissertation work. So it was actually my 2nd year of my PhD program when I realized I needed to go on and pursue a postdoc. So, postdoctoral fellowship where I did 2 years at the University of sin Cincinnati Cancer Institute, where I had the honor and privilege to working with doctor Beverly Riegle, who started their cancer survivorship clinic. And it was there that I got to work with the team to start a clinic and learn about research from the administrative side. Endia Crabtree [00:14:22]: And that was an awesome experience, but because I was learning from the administrative side and still, just like with my PhD, didn't have much opportunity to pursue research full time as a traditional student slash postdoc. I went on and did another 2 years at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. And while I was there, in order to supplement my education and when I was learning, I was taking courses. Like, I did a certificate here, certificate there, and took some courses at Johns Hopkins University. And the courses that I took, which were I took geographic information systems, and I took an environmental health course. I learned that I could actually earn a degree if I took just a few more courses. So I went ahead and pursued the master's of liberal arts. I had no initial plans to do this, but while I was on track, I was like, I might as well. Endia Crabtree [00:15:15]: Like, I've been a student so long, and I knew how to do it. So I just went ahead and and pursued that. But I'm really thankful for that because I while I was at Johns Hopkins, I also gained a new a new network, and I was able to work on a social epidemiology project that I was interested in. And I did that from 2017 to 2019. I enjoyed that. And although that was a great opportunity as well as my postdoc, I needed to settle myself back down and sort of come back out of the clouds and say, okay. What am I gonna do with all of this? Now I have a lot. I have more than I ever imagined. Endia Crabtree [00:15:54]: I have a certificate in in environmental epidemiology at the Ohio State University. I have this new MLA, the PhD, the MS. I have all of these credentials, but I need to actually pull all of this together and do something with it and well, make a decision about it. I knew that I was gonna do something. I was not gonna do my math with not you know, with nothing to show for it. But when I was a post tech at children's, I was really involved with the office of postdoctoral affairs, and I actually, along with other postdoctoral fellows, created a diversity group in partnership between the University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati Children's. And and I got to learn a lot about what people were doing with their pathways where we were all different PhDs from biomedical science to psychology to biomedical informatics. I mean, everyone was doing a little bit of we were really diverse. Endia Crabtree [00:16:49]: We were representing all sorts of fields. But, yeah, I was there at Cincinnati Children's Hospital that I learned about what it really meant to be a researcher in an academic space. And over time, I learned that that wasn't for me. As much as I will forever be passionate about cancer research and as much as that means to me, I didn't think it was the right space for me to be in an academic center. So I began to search other opportunities of which I learned about the pathway that I'm in now, which I will get into...
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Dr. Cathy Larson on Physical Therapy, Research, and Educational Success
03/31/2025
Dr. Cathy Larson on Physical Therapy, Research, and Educational Success
Undertaking the path from a Bachelor’s degree to gaining a Ph.D. in Physical Therapy (PT) is not just an academic pursuit but a transformative journey of personal and professional growth. Dr. , the Director of the at the , joins the Victors in Grad School podcast to share her remarkable voyage through the layers of graduate education, her decision points, and insights for aspiring scholars. The Early Years: Finding Direction From Pre-Vet to Physical Therapy Dr. Larson embarked on her academic journey at Michigan State University intending to become a veterinarian. However, a pivot towards human healthcare led her to discover physical therapy. Experiences shadowing PTs and OTs at Sparrow Hospital sparked her interest in the field, prompting her to shift her focus from pre-vet to physiology to better prepare for a PT career. Exploring Educational Options At a time when PT programs were transitioning from bachelor’s to master’s degrees, Dr. Larson was strategic in her selection, focusing on institutions offering a Master of Science. After visiting several campuses, the University of Alabama stood out due to her connection with the faculty and the research opportunities it offered. She cherished her clinical and educational experiences, working in diverse locations and handling a wide range of cases, including some in unconventional settings like Cook County Hospital in Chicago. The Leap to Academia Returning to Academia Despite an enriching clinical career spanning three decades, Dr. Larson felt an insatiable curiosity and a desire to delve deeper into research. Balancing young children and a part-time clinical position, she pursued her Ph.D. in Kinesiology at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, seeking to gain the skills necessary for independent research and to fulfill her passion for teaching. Developing Research Skills Dr. Larson highlighted the need for a Ph.D. to conduct rigorous research, which is integral to addressing complex questions arising in clinical practice. Her coursework and seminars equipped her with advanced research methodologies and critical evaluation skills, elements she felt lacked even in advanced clinical practice. Teaching and Nurturing New Generations Directing the PT PhD Program As the Director of the PT PhD program at the University of Michigan Flint, Dr. Larson now leads the charge in preparing future physical therapists for academic and research roles. She underscores the program's unique blend of catering to those who have completed their DPT and those pursuing dual DPT/PhD paths, thus fulfilling a niche in physical therapy education. Preparing for Success in Graduate School Dr. Larson reflects on the evolution from clinician to scholar, emphasizing the importance of organizational skills, effective study strategies, and stress management. These foundational elements, cultivated during undergraduate studies, are crucial for thriving in the rigorous environment of graduate programs. Embracing Continuous Learning The Multifaceted Career of a Physical Therapist One of the appeals of the physical therapy profession, as Dr. Larson articulates, is its versatility. Physical therapists can engage in clinical practice, education, research, or a combination thereof, continually evolving within their careers without needing to switch fields entirely. This multidisciplinary nature enriches the professional landscape, allowing PTs to pursue diverse passions and redefine their roles continuously. Dr. Larson’s journey underscores that graduate education, particularly in physical therapy, is more than a means to an end—it’s a path of continuous learning and professional development. Her insights offer invaluable guidance for those considering advanced degrees, illustrating that the quest for knowledge and improvement doesn’t stop at the clinic but extends into the realms of research and education. Aspiring PTs can draw inspiration from her experiences and understand that every step, every challenge, and every triumph on this path is a significant stride toward making impactful contributions to the field of physical therapy. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, we are on a journey together. We have this opportunity to be able to talk every week and be able to look at what I call your journey, your educational journey. It is a journey because no matter where you are, you may be just starting to think about graduate school. Maybe you applied, you're waiting on that answer, or you got that answer and you and you've gotten accepted and now you're figuring out, am I going to go there? Am I going to do this? You know, what's next? Or maybe you're in graduate school and you're watching for that light at the end of the tunnel and you're or maybe you're close to being done. And now you're looking at what's next. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:56]: No matter where you are in this journey, there are things that you can do to be successful in the journey that you're on. And that's why every week I love being able to have this opportunity to talk with you, to walk with you, to help you to find success, find tools, find resources, things that you can do to be able to build some tools for your own toolbox and prepare yourself even more for the success that you want in graduate school. Every week, I introduce you to different people with different experiences. And this week, we got another great guest with us. Doctor Cathy Larson is with us. And doctor Larson is the director of the PT PhD program at the University of Michigan Flint. And I'm really excited to have her here. She did her undergraduate work at Michigan State University, getting a bachelor's in physiology, and then went on and got a master of science degree in physical therapy when all the PG programs were still requiring the master's. That's changed now. Now all the PT programs are requiring a doctorate degree in physical therapy. And her PT degree was from the University of Alabama. And then she went on to get a PhD in kinesiology from the University of Michigan. So I'm really excited for her to share some of her own journey with you, but also her journey as a faculty member. And I'm excited to introduce her to you. Cathy, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:02:16]: Well, thank you, Chris. It was a nice introduction. And yes, that so far has been my journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]: Well, I really appreciate you being here today. And what I wanna do first and foremost is I wanna turn the clock back in time. I wanna use that magic wand of mine to go back in time. And I wanna go back to Michigan State University, where you were working on that bachelor's degree. And at some point during that time at Michigan State University, you had this inkling, you had this thought, you said, I want to go beyond getting this bachelor's degree in physiology to get a degree in physical therapy. Talk to me about that point. What made you decide physical therapy was the field that you wanted to study? Dr. Cathy Larson [00:02:55]: Well, that's a great question because to be honest with you, I went to Michigan State University thinking that I was going to become a vet. They have a great vet school at Michigan State. I went there and maybe I'm still a vet wannabe, but I did get the opportunity to explore different careers, and I was looking for a health career. So I decided that I wanted to really be beneficial to not animals, but human beings. So I I got the opportunity to go and explore different health fields. I went to Sparrow Hospital, for example, and observed their PT department, OT, etcetera. And then I really got a spark when I was exploring physical therapy. And so I contemplated quite a while to figure out if that's what I wanted to do. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:03:51]: And so I did shadow some physical therapists. I shadowed an OT as well, but then I decided that PT was what I wanted to do. I was pre vet. So I ended up trying to figure out which undergraduate degree would best prepare me for PT. So I chose first physiology, which I got to do some research as an undergraduate student. I was able to take all my prerequisites for my PT degree, applying for the PT degree. And at that point in time, it was a master's degree. So there were only like maybe 8 programs, because this was in the period when we were converting from bachelor programs to master's degrees. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:04:38]: And I was starting to get to the point that I was almost at the end of my bachelor's degree when I decided. So I ended up really just thinking about that. And to be honest with you, my mom was really influential in saying, well, if you've got, if you're close to a bachelor's degree, finish that and then try to apply for a master's degree, which in the long run really served me well because then I had the master's degree and the ability to apply for a PhD. So I had that master's degree and it was in physical therapy. It was in Alabama. So I loved Birmingham. I loved the warm weather. I remember walking around with all the dogwood trees and all the rhododendrons, etcetera. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:05:24]: But I really enjoyed that experience because there were only 8 people in the master's program, but then there were a much larger number in the bachelor's program. So they had both and the 8 of us were treated, I want to say a little bit special because we got more individual attention. I just got great experiences. I had great clinical experiences in my master's degree. I still think back on those and I got to do them across the country. So I was in St. Louis for a while. I was actually in Kentucky and did some of my clinicals. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:05:58]: I did one in Chicago, which was very meaningful because I was born in bad ex Michigan. I'm a rural girl. And so going to Chicago and I was working at Cook County Hospital there or doing my affiliation, my clinical affiliation at Cook County. And I ended up treating a patient that was in shackles and, you know, that was a little difficult to have him walk up the stairs, but I was exposed to a huge variety of patients. I remember this was the first time that I saw a patient wearing a halo, which is a huge cumbersome neck brace, which we still use in PT. But I, he was walking around with the halo and I'm going, wait a minute, this does not compute. He had a spinal cord injury and he's walking around, but he was mainly involved in his upper extremities. So it was just like very startling. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:06:57]: So my journey has been kind of a longer one because I, you know, I did do my bachelor's degree then, I did immediately go into my master's degree, but then I waited to start my PhD in Ann Arbor. Now I lived in the Ypsilanti area, so Ann Arbor was close, but I needed to go and talk to potential chairs. So you do need to align yourself just like we do now for our PhD program at U of M Flint. You do want to align yourself with a chair that is investigating areas of study that are passions for you as well. So to match up with a chair. So I did a lot of exploration and I did find Charles Warrenham, who was my initial chair at U of M in Ann Arbor. And he was studying movement sciences, which mirrored in, you know, it was a definite positive experience for me as a physical therapist. And I did work in the clinic. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:08:06]: I worked in the clinic. I'm not working right now, but I worked in the clinic for a significantly long time, mainly at the Rehab Institute of Michigan in Detroit that I worked as a clinician for, what, 30 years total on and off. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:23]: One question that I have for you is you had mentioned back at the master's level. Let's go back there first. You talked about the fact that at the time when you were looking at physical therapy schools, there were only a handful of schools out there. So I'm sure you did some searching, some exploration to look at those 8 programs that you mentioned that were out there that would allow for a student to come in at a master's level. For you, as you were looking at those, what were you looking for? Master's level. For you, as you were looking at those, what were you looking for and what made you ultimately decide to go to the University of Alabama? Dr. Cathy Larson [00:08:57]: Well, the University of Alabama had a master's of science. So that's why, what I was looking for. So I did want that master's degree, but I visited many of the campuses. So fortunately I had the financial means to go and, and some of them actually did, have obligatory. This was before internet. So we needed to travel as opposed to having an online interview. That was not an option at that time. So I did visit a few of those places. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:09:32]: And then I just, when I got to the university of Alabama, I just clicked with the faculty that I was interviewing and speaking with. I was allowed to, you know, talk with faculty over a 2 day period, which gave me a lot of time to get to know people. And then, so, and then I just clicked with several of the faculty members and it was a pleasure to get to know them, understand what their research is. And then to be honest with you, we didn't figure out exactly the who was gonna chair my master's thesis, but that, that ended up being a very positive experience. So it was a connection with the faculty and what they do and their program and they're laying it out and laid the program out. There were a huge dynamic faculty there and they influenced my decisions. And so while I was there, I was starting to say, you know what? I do wanna be a clinician first. So I was a clinician for multiple years until I decided to go back and get my PhD, but I ended up through the master's degree experience, wanting to be like these dynamic faculty. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:10:47]: And they were dynamic for multiple reasons. They helped you learn the material. They had time for 1 on 1 conversations while you're going through the courses, but they were also very involved with the American Physical Therapy Association. And they would bring speakers in, and we would learn from the speakers. I started going to the combined sections meetings through the APTA as a student there. I became a member of the APTA as a student way back when, and I have maintained my membership in the APTA ever since my student experience. So that was influential. When I was at the conferences, the faculty introduced me and helped me start to build my network. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:11:39]: So I'm talking too much about what happened as a master's student, but also your, your main question was what influenced me. And it truly was the connection with the faculty that said, okay, this is my home. This can be my home for a period of time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:57]: And I mentioned at the beginning, and you mentioned the journey continued on after going out, working, being a professional clinician for a number of years, you decided to go back to school to get a PhD. And not every physical therapist wants to do that. You know, many PTs are they're happy with the patient contact, the patient care, the work that they're doing in that clinical setting. You decided you wanted to go further, continue on with the re some of the research things that you you enjoyed and your master's degree. So talk to me about that decision. What made you decide that going back to school to get that PhD in kinesiology was the route that you wanted to take? Dr. Cathy Larson [00:12:42]: Okay. Well, I would like to express to you that I had young children at the time. So I was like, should I delay? Should I delay? And then I spoke to myself. I ended up going part time as a clinician. So I cut down my hours and then I joined the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Kinesiology department. I just really wanted to well, as a clinician, I didn't feel like I had the tools to perform research as well as I would like to. So I did not believe like, we had the opportunity to do research as a master's degree student, but I still didn't think I had the tools to make this research a big part of my career. So I was feeling that when I was in the clinic, I was like, well, I certainly would like to address this question about patient care or I'd like to do this about, you know, I would have issues arise with my patients and I'm going, I would really like to explore those issues, but to I didn't feel like I had the skills. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:13:51]: So I looked for a PhD program. Ann Arbor was a beautiful experience in that I learned so many skills that I did not have as a clinician to be able to carry out my own independent research projects. And that's what I think every PhD student's goal is to really dive into, like, research design, how to, of course, critically evaluate a research study and know enough about statistics to understand if they were correctly done. You look at a paper where the results that they have leading to the conclusions that they made or the discussion that they had for their research study. And I got a lot of opportunity to do that in my PhD, which I didn't have as a clinician at that point well enough to give me confidence to do independent research. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:49]: Now from there, you moved into academia and got into an opportunity to be able to teach other students and to be able to connect with other students where now you are leading the charge of working with PhD students at the University of Michigan, Flint. And kind of like the experience that you had with the master's program, there aren't a ton of PhD in physical therapy programs in the United States. Can you talk to me about the PT PhD? Let's talk about that specifically and why it was important for the University of Michigan Flint to create that program and to encourage clinicians, people with a terminal degree to continue on to get that PhD. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:15:36]: We first and there were others that were part of this, this first designing of a PhD program in physical therapy. And I just wanna help you understand and the audience to understand that you're right. This is a PhD in physical therapy that we offer at the University of Michigan Flint. It does prepare you to teach in doctor, you know, the DPT, doctor of physical therapy programs, and serve as a faculty for DP and DPT programs, as well as to do research, which I have the strong passion to try to help facilitate that experience for individuals that would like to seek a PhD. There are those that either right away, because we have a dual DPT PhD program that right away say, yes, I have aspirations to become a faculty member. And, you know, I had these career aspirations to be a faculty member and a researcher primary, you know, in physical therapy, or it could be a slightly broader. They might do their research and any of the healthcare health services. So, but mainly research that will help facilitate and answer questions for the PT profession. Dr. Cathy Larson [00:17:01]: So those individuals that really know right away that they want to teach and do research, it's a great avenue, even as, as you're going through the DPT program, you can apply and go through the dual program. Otherwise there is, you know, you can already have your degree in physical therapy and then apply for the PhD program. And then again, learn the skills to become an independent researcher. And also we have 6 credits in out of the 45 total credits that you need to take 45 45 to 55 credits that you need to take...
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Passion and Resilience in Graduate Education: Dr. Reza Amini’s Story
03/24/2025
Passion and Resilience in Graduate Education: Dr. Reza Amini’s Story
Entering graduate school is a significant milestone in one’s educational journey. It entails a multitude of steps, decisions, and transitions. In this week's Victor's in Grad School podcast, we gained valuable insights from , Director of the program at the as well a seasoned academic and health professional. Dr. Amini’s journey from Iran to the United States highlights the complexities, challenges, and rewards of pursuing advanced degrees. Here, we further explore the key takeaways from his experiences and advice for current and prospective graduate students. From High School to Medical Degree: A Challenge of Adaptation Dr. Amini began his educational journey in Iran, where the system significantly differs from that in the United States. Students can transition directly from high school to medical school, contingent on their national exam scores. Reflecting on his own experience, he described the initial struggle at medical school due to the heightened expectations and rigorous study demands compared to high school. "It took me some time to adjust myself... I was not performing very well in the 1st, year, maybe the first three semesters," Dr. Amini shared, emphasizing the importance of connecting with supportive mentors and peers to navigate these early challenges. His story underlines the critical role of resilience, hard work, and the willingness to seek help in overcoming initial hurdles. Following a Passion: The Move to Public Health After practicing medicine for several years, Dr. Amini chose to pursue a master's degree in public health, driven by a desire to affect larger populations. His commitment to improving the lives of those with physical and mental disabilities, particularly veterans of the Iran-Iraq war, fueled this decision. "I was passionate to help people, and I was doing it in clinical practice... but it was not enough for me. I wanted to help more people and to spend more time impacting more people's lives," he explained. For him, research became a powerful tool to influence health policies and create substantive changes. His experience underscores the importance of aligning one's career with personal passions and motivations. Crossing Continents: A PhD Journey in the United States The decision to attain a PhD in sociology from the University of North Texas marked another transformative phase in Dr. Amini's career. Moving to a new country posed its own set of challenges, including adjusting to a different educational system and overcoming language and cultural barriers. Despite these obstacles, Dr. Amini remained focused on his larger goal: enhancing his research capabilities to make a global impact. He highlighted the value of international exposure to new academic environments and resources, which expanded his research scope and professional network. Balancing Academic and Personal Life Dr. Amini's story is also a testament to the balancing act required of graduate students, particularly those with families. Balancing academic commitments with personal responsibilities is a recurring theme among graduate students, as noted by Dr. Amini, who juggled full-time work, study, and family life. "Spending time at work, finding a specific time to study, it was very challenging working full time, spending enough time with my family, and at the same time doing my study," he remarked. His advice to maintain a support network and manage time effectively is crucial for anyone navigating similar challenges. Words of Wisdom for Aspiring Graduates Drawing from both his own experiences and his role as a mentor, Dr. Amini offers essential advice to students contemplating graduate education: Follow Your Passion : Choose a field that you are passionate about to ensure personal satisfaction and fulfillment. Be Resilient : Graduate school is demanding, and resilience is key to pushing through tough times. Seek Support : Never hesitate to ask for help from mentors, peers, or family members. A strong support system can make a significant difference. Dr. Reza Amini’s journey is a powerful testament to the determination, adaptability, and passion needed to succeed in graduate school. His experiences provide invaluable lessons for anyone on the path to advanced education, reminding us all that with the right mindset and support, achieving academic and professional goals is within reach. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being on this journey with you, and I call it a journey. I know I say this every week, but it is so true. You are on a journey, whether you're at the very beginning and just starting to think about, do I want to continue my education? And what kind of education might I want to get additional to my bachelor's degree? Or maybe you've applied and you're waiting on that answer, or you got the answer and and you got accepted and you're ready to go. Or maybe you're in the program and you're looking for that light at the end of the tunnel. And no matter where you are in that continuum, in that journey, you are on a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: And there are things that you can do. There are people that you can learn from that can give you some tools for your toolbox to help you to find success sooner. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to find success in graduate school. No matter what type of graduate school you want to go through, we're gonna be giving you tools that will help you along the way. And that's why every week, I bring you different guests with different experiences that can talk to you about the journey that they have gone on. Today, I got another great guest. Doctor Reza Amini is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:35]: And Dr. Amini has been a faculty member at the University of Michigan Flint for a number of years, and he leads our health care management program as well as our health services administration master's degrees. And we're gonna be talking to him about his experience, not only as a student himself, but as a faculty member to give you some perspective on what he's learned along the way. Reza, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Reza Amini [00:02:02]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:03]: I'm really excited to have you. And one of the things that I love doing first and foremost is having an opportunity to be able to turn the clock back in time. And you've gotten a number of different graduate degrees. So you went from getting that medical doctorate degree from Shiraz University of Medical Sciences, and then from there, you got a master's degree in public health from the University of Social Welfare and Rehabilitation Sciences in Tehran. And then even beyond that, you got a PhD in sociology from the University of North Texas. So I wanna go back in time. I wanna go back to those years when you were a student thinking for yourself. What made you decide that you wanted to continue and go and get that initial graduate degree? Dr. Reza Amini [00:02:51]: Thank you so much for giving this opportunity to me to share my experience. In Iran, the education system is a little bit different from here in the United States. Students in high school, they can go straight to medical school, but they need to sit on exam, which is a national exam and get a national rank first. And based on their national rank, they can pick the programs that they they're eligible to go to. So in my experience, I was involved in many activities that I was exposed to medical, science and medical practice. When I was in middle school, many of my family members, my relatives, they were medical doctors. And, traditionally, my family, they were somehow involved in medical practice in traditional medicine in Iran. So, yeah, I had some incentives and some motivations for my family members, and I studied hard in the last two years of my high school to get a good rank. Dr. Reza Amini [00:04:06]: But in the first attempt, I was not very good. So my rank was about 9,000 in in the nation. But I studied 1 I spent one more year to study after graduating from high school, and my the second attempt, my rank was about 950 in the nation. So, something at that time about 2,000 people could go to medical school straight from high school, and I was eligible to do that based on my rank. So I started medical school. It takes 7 years to complete med school. It's a combination combined undergraduate and graduate section that usually student do in the United States. So that was challenging, especially in the first few years because you're in medical school, the expectation is much different from high school. Dr. Reza Amini [00:05:10]: Right? So you go straight to a program that requires more intensive studies. It took me some time to adjust myself. I was not performing very well in the 1st, year, maybe the first three semesters, but I had good connections with my faculty members and my, I found some great mentors in my peers, and they helped me to adjust myself with the new environment and new expectations. And it helped me to go through the 7 years of education. And after that, I graduated, from medical school, and I started doing medical practice as a general physician, which is very similar to family physician role in the US. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:05]: Many times individuals at that point would say, I'm good. I don't need to continue my education. I have a career. I've got a career that pays a good salary, that I can stay in for my entire life. Now you decided to continue on after a number of years of practice and getting a master's degree in public health still in your country. So talk to me about what was the impetus for you to decide that you wanted to continue and get that master's degree after you had been working for those number of years? Dr. Reza Amini [00:06:41]: That's a great question and somehow complex. So I try to make summarize it and at the same time explain the the incentives and motivation behind the pursuing an Miles per hour after my MD. So one of the things that almost all of the physicians and those who are working in health services and health care system, they have the passion to help other people. And it was the same for me. I was passionate to help people, and I was doing it in clinical practice in my office and also in some other clinics that I shared, my practice with some of my colleagues. We established, the 1st private clinic, working on addiction treatment in Iran, and it was very rewarding to have those kind of create some environment to help other people in those clinics, but it was not enough for me. I wanted to help more people and to spend more time and impacting more people's lives with with my time. So although the job as as medical doctors, nurses, other practitioners doing, they are great and they are very valuable, but I wanted to do more and impact more people's lives. Dr. Reza Amini [00:08:11]: So I got involved in research in public health. So I was doing research and collaborating with, some researcher in a medical research center in Iran. The focus was on helping people with physical and mental disabilities to have a better life. And your audience may not know that Iran and Iraq were in war for 8 years. It was the bloodiest war in the 20th century. Half a 1000000 wounded and injured on each side, and we had a huge number of people with physical disabilities, and they were overlooked in health care system, in policy making, and in many aspects of health care. So I got involved because I saw the need for involving myself and sharing my experience and knowledge. But when you're in research, you know that there are so many things that you don't know. Dr. Reza Amini [00:09:15]: You learn that, and it gives you more incentive to do more research, to do more studies, and expand your knowledge. So because of that, I learned during that time that there are so many things that I don't know, and I need to know that in order to do my research and achieve my goals, which was helping people and creating the opportunity for policy makers to create and develop policies that can help these people. But if you create not accurate information for policy makers, their direction and decision making can have negative impacts on people's lives. And we see that in the in everywhere in the US right now and any aspects of our lives. Right? So wrong policies can have more negative impacts on people. So I wanted to know learn more about aging and public health in order to do my research and create more knowledge for policy makers that are more accurate and, the the highest level of accuracy of the knowledge that we were creating. So that was the the main incentive that I went to another graduate school to do my Miles per hour, and my Miles per hour was focused on gerontology, which is about older adults and helping them to have a better quality of life. Right? Understanding what drives the health status and health issues, chronic health diseases in older adults. Dr. Reza Amini [00:11:09]: And the the the reason I chose gerontology was that during my research, I I learned that people with physical disability, they were experiencing accelerated aging. So, for example, we have 65 years old as the aging margin in our population in the United States. Right? So people over age of 65, they are considered older adults. That's it. Age is just a number, but at the population level, you need to have a a certain margin to categorize people, right, in order to create more policies and more services for them. But in that population with physical limitations and disabilities, they were experiencing older adults' health disorders in much younger ages, like 45 or 50 years old, so they were experiencing aging much sooner than they were expected to. So that was one of the findings of my research. So I I started to study more about aging and older adults, and that was one of the reason I enrolled in that program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:30]: Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Now you finished that program and then continued on and got a final degree, a PhD, this time in the United States at the University of North Texas. Now you already had a terminal degree. Now it's not a terminal degree in the United States, but it was a terminal degree plus another master's degree. And then you decided to take that research to the next level to be able to get that research degree from the United States. Talk to me about that. Not only moving to a a brand new continent, a new country, but deciding to move from practical work experience in the community, in a clinical setting, into a research based degree and on an academic track and why you chose a PhD? Dr. Reza Amini [00:13:19]: As you see that, at that point, I was in a transition when I said I was involved in research. I was transitioning from clinical practice to more research, and I was the director of the research section of that medical research center I just mentioned for 10 years. So and, I was doing more research. I learned that there are, again, some areas that I lacked the knowledge, and I cannot take that knowledge in the situation that I was. And those people around me, they were great people. They had wonderful experience, a great amount of knowledge, but at that point, I couldn't grow my knowledge more in that situation. So I started searching and learning more about the programs research programs in other continents in Europe and in the United States, and I was exposed to many of the scholars from many countries when I was attending conferences overseas, like in Turkey, that we call it Turkey now. So they changed the name of the country. Dr. Reza Amini [00:14:38]: So I was exposed to those scholars. We had some connections and communication after conferences, which is we was, you know, a new phase in my life because that exposure to other scholars in conferences, it expanded my vision and expanded my view into research and also the future of the research studies I wanted to do. So I got involved in those connections with other scholars, and after a while, I learned that I thought that it's time to improve again my research skills and, also get involved in some focus more on research because I was enjoying it. The results of my research, I could see that can impact so many peoples, and it was very different from clinical practice. As I said, it's very valuable to see patients 1 on 1, but with just a research project after 1 year, I could impact thousands of people's lives, and I give you an example. I was working on health needs of people with lack of visual equity and blind people who were injured in Iran Iraq war. They had no voices in the health policy and health care system and in the health care system. They were overlooked for more than 10 years, and they received no health insurance. Dr. Reza Amini [00:16:21]: They had no health coverages, but the result of my research and my my teams also, it was a team effort, Help them to be visible to policy makers. And after my research, they received comprehensive health insurance coverage for their health needs, not only themselves, but also for their family members. And it passed in the congress after my research was published. And, they started the the people, the injured people, they started to create their own society, and they started to lobby with the policy makers after that. So it was so rewarding to see how my research was helping people. So that was the the another way that I was looking as the result of my work. So because of that, that's just one example. I started thinking, I can go beyond the boundaries of Iran. Dr. Reza Amini [00:17:29]: I can do something that I can help people around the world, but there were limitations and barriers to that. And coming to the United States, having a degree, not just a degree, but getting exposure to scholars and researchers in the United States with the so many resources that are available here that are were not there in my home country in Iran could give me the opportunity to achieve that goal. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:01]: Now every person that goes into graduate education goes through transitions. You mentioned that in your country, you go right you went from high school into a doctorate degree, a medical degree. You worked for a while and then made a transition back into education to get that master's degree, and then transitioned to a new country, a new type of educational system into a different educational model, a different education degree. Talk to me about the transitions that you went through. What did you have to do as you transitioned into these programs to be able to find success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entirety of each of those programs? Dr. Reza Amini [00:18:49]: There are different ways to explain that. From high school and to medical school, I I I think I touched that a little bit. It was it was very challenging situation because, as I said, coming from high school straight to a doctorate program and the the amount of work expectations, the study time, and everything was totally different, and it was very difficult. And as I said, having some supports, like mentors, advisors, and, great professors I had. They helped me to adjust myself. But hard work is the key, and so being passionate about your goal and not giving up and be resilient. So that was the key elements of my success. But in the second time, I was practicing, and I was out of school for more than 12 years. Dr....
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Understanding the PhD Journey: A Conversation with Dr. Doug Zytko
03/17/2025
Understanding the PhD Journey: A Conversation with Dr. Doug Zytko
Graduate school is a significant commitment and a transformative journey, and no one knows this better than , an associate professor and Director of the as well as the and Masters degrees at the . In this week's Victor's in Grad School podcast, Dr. Zytko shared his experiences and insights, offering valuable advice for those considering or currently undertaking graduate studies. Below, we'll explore some key takeaways from Dr. Zytko's journey and his recommendations for finding success in graduate school. The Inception: Sparking the Decision to Pursue a PhD Dr. Zytko’s path to graduate school wasn’t perfectly planned. While completing his bachelor’s degree at the New Jersey Institute of Technology, he found himself drawn to the role of professors—a profession held by both his parents. “To be a professor, I need to have a PhD,” he realized, leading him to apply for several PhD programs. Surprisingly, he faced multiple rejections, except from his alma mater, where his passion and notable GPA (3.96) caught the attention of faculty members. Early Challenges and Realizations Entering his PhD program, Dr. Zytko initially misunderstood the nature of doctoral studies. He believed his journey would be structured similarly to undergraduate education, relying heavily on others to guide his path. However, PhD programs demand a high degree of self-direction and the creation of new knowledge. “I didn’t understand that a PhD student has to formulate their own research agenda,” he reflected. Only two years in did he fully grasp the intensive, self-driven nature of the program, leading to a prolonged seven-year completion time. Preparing for Graduate School: Tips for Prospective Students Engage in Undergraduate Research: Dr. Zytko emphasized the importance of involving oneself in research during undergraduate studies. Not just for bolstering a CV, but for gaining a fundamental understanding of research processes. Clear Career Goals: Ensure you have a defined reason for pursuing graduate studies. Avoid treating grad school as a pause button or a vague stepping stone; know why you are there and let all decisions follow from that purpose. Consider the Master’s Path: If undergraduate research isn't part of your background, pursuing a master's degree before a PhD might be a more structured approach. This can provide essential research experience and a more tailored understanding of your field. Finding Success During Graduate Studies Be Comfortable with Discomfort: Graduate studies, particularly PhD programs, require a new level of time management and self-motivation. Don’t wait for others to dictate your schedule or goals. No Plan B: Dr. Zytko shared that having no alternative career path kept him focused during challenging times. This level of dedication can be crucial for success. Drawing from Experience: Reflecting on Dr. Zytko's Advice Dr. Zytko's journey underscores the need for strategic preparation and genuine passion. From learning research fundamentals early on to maintaining focused drive despite challenges, his advice is rooted in real experience. For anyone considering graduate school, Dr. Zytko's insights are invaluable. Whether you are contemplating a master's or diving straight into a PhD, understanding the journey ahead can make a substantial difference. Taking the time to gain research experience, having a clear career path, and staying committed to your goals are essential steps towards success in graduate school. And remember, it's not just about getting the degree; it's about growing intellectually and professionally to meet your greatest potential. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, each week, we are on a journey together. And I call it a journey because it really is that. You thinking about graduate school, being in graduate school, wherever you are in this process of getting further education, and you will go through a journey because the experience is going to be different for every person. And what's important though, is that there are things that you can do to be able to find success throughout every stage of this process. It's not always going to be easy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:56]: There's going to be some bumps in the road, most likely. But saying that, there are ways in which you can get some tools for your own toolbox, and be able to prepare yourself as well as you can to be able to enter grad school strong, to go through grad school strong, and be able to come out on the end of the process ready to go for the next phase of your life. So every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can talk about what they went through in going to graduate school themselves, and the experience that they've had since then that can help you on the journey that you're on as well. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Doctor Doug Zitko is with us, and Doug is an associate professor at the University of Michigan Flint, but he's also the director of graduate programs for the College of Innovation and Technology, as well as working specifically with our computer science program and our human centered design master's degree program. So Doug has a lot of different experiences that have brought him to the place that he is today, and I'm really excited to have him here today. Doug, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:02:11]: Of course. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: So one of the first things that I love doing is turning the clock back in time. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. And as you were going through and getting that bachelor's degree in information technology, at some point, at some point, you got that spark. You got that push. And you decided for yourself to go from the bachelor's degree and stepping further into getting a PhD in human computer interaction. Not every student's gonna do that. So I wanna go back to that moment, that moment that you figured out for yourself. I wanna go to that next step. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:53]: What made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Dr. Doug Zytko [00:02:56]: Well, it wasn't a terribly thought out process. I was starting my senior year with my bachelor's degree, and I was thinking about what am I gonna do when this year is over. And no one is telling me, you need to register for these courses and do this and be at this room at that time. And I really didn't have an answer. What I concluded was that I wasn't terribly passionate about the career choices that I was learning about in my major, which was information technology. The thing that excited me the most, which I didn't expect, was the role of professor itself. You know, learning from professors in my classes who were very passionate about the material and clearly seemed to really enjoy the job, others that didn't seem to enjoy that much. And I thought, I think I might enjoy that because my family is teachers. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:03:49]: My dad was a teacher and a department chair, and my mom was a teacher as well. And I thought, well, maybe I can do this at the college level. And all I knew at that point was, okay. To be a professor, I need to have a PhD. And I started submitting applications with that being the extent of my understanding. And so not surprisingly, I got rejected by every school I applied to, except for one, which was New Jersey Institute of Technology, where I was also doing my bachelor's. Because one thing I was able to do there that I was not able to do as easily with other schools is I could just pick the brains of my professors. And so I just started to talk to them 1 by 1, voicing my interest in getting a PhD. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:04:34]: I got very different reactions to that from faculty. Some that were telling me to do anything but that, others that were very enthusiastic, some that were giving me highly detailed advice. But I talked to enough people that those in decision making roles came to learn that I was interested in a PhD. My GPA was really good at a 3.96 GPA as an undergrad. And I was fortunate enough to have a professor buy in quite literally to bringing me on directly from bachelor's into the PhD program and administrative personnel being on board with that as well. Chris, I'm sure you know, but maybe your listeners don't. You know, one of the biggest differences between PhD programs and and master's programs is PhDs are almost always fully funded positions. I've now come to learn it's quite rare for a bachelor student to go directly into PhD with that full funding commitment without ever having done research. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:05:30]: I didn't even know what the word research meant. And things like the difference between qualitative and quantitative research, I've never even heard those terms. And so I was being admitted into into a PhD program really, just on genuine passion for a very clearly articulated career goal. I wanted to be a professor, whatever that meant, and strength of GPA. So then I start my PhD. And I'll skip ahead to the end first so everything else makes sense. It took me 7 years to finish my PhD, which is quite a bit longer. I think the national average is between 4 5 years. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:06:00]: Yeah. So those 2 extra years came really at the start, not at the end. Because those first two years were mostly just me running around with my head on fire, trying to figure out not just how to succeed at a PhD, but learning what a PhD actually is. Like, when I was saying I didn't even know what the word research meant, I didn't understand that a PhD student has to formulate their own research agenda and conduct and complete that for a dissertation. I knew these words, dissertation. I knew these words, research, but I didn't know what they meant. And so just to give an example, when I was admitted into the program, they said, we're gonna guarantee your funding for 4 years, which I interpreted as, oh, great. A PhD is only gonna take 4 years, because I was operating with that certainty and structure of a bachelor's program and a master's program where I just take these classes. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:06:48]: And then once I finish those, I'm imagining gonna have a PhD, meaning I assumed other people took responsibility for the structuring and ensuring that I was hitting certain milestones at a certain time. And I remember in my 1st year as a PhD student, it was amazing because I knew just enough to learn that I was learning a lot, but I didn't know yet all of the things I should have been doing in my 1st year into my 2nd year to make sure I finished by year 5. And so the end of year year 1, I remember thinking to myself, I've learned more in this 1 year than I have in 4 years as a bachelor student, and I and I still believe that to be true today. I was learning so much because I finally knew exactly why I was there. I mean, Chris, you know, like, PhD students, they still have to take some classes, and those are mostly front loaded in the 1st couple years. And so I was still in that mindset of taking classes. But the difference between me at the PhD level and undergraduate level was I wanna be a professor. Whereas when I was an an undergraduate, it was I'm taking these classes because I'm vaguely interested in computers, and people tell me I'm good with computers, but I still really didn't know what career I was working towards and how each class fit into that. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:08:05]: So when I was taking my introductory classes in the PhD program, it was, oh, very clearly, I understand what I'm taking from this and what I'm taking from that. I finally started to see classes as these really valuable knowledge bases. And so I came out of that year. I I really felt like I doubled my intellect between bachelor's and that one year in the in the PhD program. And then I start my 2nd year. And then as I go into my 3rd year, it starts to dawn on me the obligations that are on me. Not on anybody else, but on me to articulate our research agenda, and I didn't know where to begin. I could read papers. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:08:42]: I could summarize papers. I could review papers. But in terms of articulating a research agenda, help somebody help me because I'm so used to professors in classes. You know, they assign to you projects. They give you exams. The student reacts. This is the task. I will complete it. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:09:00]: But then in the PhD program, it's, no. You need to articulate that. You need to put together the, quote, unquote, exam. And it took me a while to figure out the biggest difference between PhD and masters and undergraduate is with those first two degrees, the undergraduate and the masters, you are mastering existing knowledge. You are demonstrating, I understand the knowledge has already been created. But when you do a PhD, the sign of a completed PhD is you have created new knowledge. And that's a completely different skill set that took me probably at least 2 years just to figure out how to do it and then came the execution, which is why it took me 7 years. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:41]: So as you look back at that, because you did things, like you said, in a way that was probably a little bit longer than others, and it sounds like there was some maybe some lacking mentorship that might have been there that could have helped you along the way. But as you look back and you look at what you learned in those first two years as you were going into that 3rd year and realizing, oh, I'm behind, what would you have done differently in that 1st year in a PhD program as you were transitioning in and through to move you to the 2nd year and get you on that path toward the end goal instead of being 3 years in and still being a little bit lost. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:10:28]: Yeah. I think there's things I should've done when I was still an undergraduate when preparing to apply to PhD programs, and then I can talk also about things I should've done in the 1st year of my PhD. Because looking back, those first two years of my PhD really should have been my master's years. And instead, they were in in the PhD years. And some of your listeners might go, oh, no. I got the better end of the deal because PhD is fully funded. So I basically got a master's fully funded. I don't have a master's, but that was just you could argue that's essentially what I was doing. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:11:01]: But I would say, no. That's not the smart play. Because as soon as you enter a PhD program officially, you're on this clock where you have to have certain milestones then at a certain time. And so I was basically being an informal master's student while also PhD, but on a PhD student clock, which caused a lot of anxiety later on where I am now a year plus behind on certain milestones with my dissertation proposal and, of course, dissertation defense. And so I would not recommend that. What I should have been doing in my senior year as an undergraduate student or maybe even earlier, because I now see this even in my own research lab now, is getting involved with research as an undergraduate student. And because I didn't realize that was a thing that professors really encouraged. And looking back in in my 6 plus years as a professor now, my absolute best student researchers were undergraduate students, and bar none. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:11:56]: It's not even close. And I should have been doing that, not just to start to build up a CV of a publication record, but just to get an understanding of what does it mean to do research, and what are the the expectations? What's the skills that I have to develop? Because that would have armed me with much better knowledge of how to craft materials for applying to different schools, but also in choosing which schools to apply to. And it would have enabled me to go into a PhD program already understanding the area I wanted to do a PhD. And maybe not the exact dissertation plan was set up, but an understanding of, I'm gonna be an expert in this subfield or this subarea so that immediately I can start mastering the literature of that particular area. Because what I spent the first two years on my PhD was just understanding what part of human computer interaction do I even wanna do research in, and then what does that research even look like? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:53]: All good points. And, you know, one of the things that I learned when I was going through my own doctorate was that the more that you can use the classes that you are taking to inform the research that you're going to be doing. And if your program allows it, to allow for you to be able to start to do some of the lit review, some of the writing, some of the chapter writing as you're going through other courses that may relate to the topic at hand, definitely can save you time. But I say, if your program allows it, because not every program will allow you to do that. So it's always important to know and to understand what the rules are for the program that you're in. One of the things that I I think that I would ask you now, as you look back, and you've kinda talked about the fact that you would have done research ahead of time. You now are the director of a PhD program in computing, and you are getting applications from individuals that are applying to the program. You get some that are that potentially do have a bachelor's degree but no master's degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:02]: You have others that have master's degree or master's degree plus experiences. In your opinion right now, if a student is getting a bachelor's degree, is it to their benefit to look to a PhD right away if that's where they see themselves in the future? Or is it better for them to do the route of the masters, getting getting more experience, and then going to the PhD? Dr. Doug Zytko [00:14:27]: Yeah. That's a that's a complicated question, and I think the answer has evolved over time. Sort of from what I've seen, not just in my own role, but from speaking to those in similar roles at other universities, is the standard of quality for an admitted PhD student has gone up dramatically. And with that, also expectations for quality of a of a completed PhD. I I've talked to some that are very esteemed senior members of the field, and they'll tell us what they completed for their dissertation wouldn't even be a third of what's expected of a PhD now. So the expectations are continually rising, not just for completing the PhD, but for admission into a program. To be honest, someone that has a bachelor's and is considering a PhD, I would probably not advise doing that unless the student already has a publication record, meaning some kind of evidence to a PhD program that I can do research successfully. Because something that I tell our prospective applicants is, you know, when you hear a PhD program is is fully funded, they see that as sometimes free money. Dr. Doug Zytko [00:15:45]: But what it really means is there is an obligation of the student to deliver on that investment. Because that's what it is. It's an investment. And so when you hear a program is fully funded like ours, what it often means is faculty are committing finite resources that they've worked very hard for through writing external grants and whatnot, And they're investing those resources into a relatively unknown student with their fingers crossed that that student's gonna...
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Achieving Excellence in Grad School: Tips from Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer
03/10/2025
Achieving Excellence in Grad School: Tips from Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer
Graduate school is a unique and deeply transformative journey. As outlines in this week's Victor's in Grad School podcast, every student travels their own path toward advanced degrees, facing distinct challenges and triumphs along the way. This episode features , an Associate Professor and Director of the program at the 's , who shares his insightful experiences and suggestions for finding success in graduate school. Finding Your True Passion The Decision to Pursue a Master's Degree When Dr. Mkaouer completed his bachelor’s degree at the Universite de Tunis, he was at a crossroads. Instead of jumping straight into the professional world, he chose to pursue a master’s degree. As he reflects, finding a career that you genuinely enjoy is crucial. At that point, he didn't know exactly what he wanted to do, so he decided to continue his education to gather more experience and skills, which would later guide him in making more informed career choices. Emphasizing Research and Continuous Learning A recurring theme in Dr. Mkaouer’s journey was his interest in research. As he transitioned from his master’s to his PhD, he found a passion for research, particularly in software engineering. His thirst for knowledge and his desire to solve complex problems led him to further his education in the United States, where he continued his studies at the Missouri University of Science and Technology and later, the University of Michigan Dearborn. For students contemplating this path, Dr. Mkaouer insists on the importance of diving deep into research areas that ignite your curiosity and passion. Charting a Course in PhD Studies The Role of Mentorship One of the significant points Dr. Mkaouer discusses is the importance of a solid mentor-mentee relationship during PhD studies. When his advisor moved to another institution, Dr. Mkaouer chose to follow. He stresses that an academic advisor's vision should align with your own, serving as a consistent support system throughout the demanding PhD journey. Navigating Obstacles PhD studies are ripe with challenges—from rigorous academic requirements to unexpected changes, like a mentor leaving. Dr. Mkaouer advises students to be adaptable and remain focused on their long-term goals. He also emphasizes the significance of building a robust support network of like-minded peers who can provide both technical and emotional support. Preparing for Professional Success Beyond Grades: Developing Skills Dr. Mkaouer emphasizes that the goal of a graduate degree is not simply to get good grades but to develop a unique skill set that separates you from others in a competitive job market. He recalls his struggles and eventual success with mastering algorithms, a crucial skill for his career. His consistent effort and extra work beyond the standard curriculum were what truly set him apart. Utilizing Resources and Mentorship Graduate programs offer numerous resources and mentorship opportunities, which students should fully utilize. Dr. Mkaouer mentions that many students are unaware of the extensive support available to them. He advises attending seminars, engaging with faculty, and seeking out additional learning materials to supplement formal coursework. Dr. Mkaouer’s experiences illustrate that the journey through graduate school is multifaceted—marked by continuous learning, adaptability, and a relentless pursuit of passion. By finding your true interests, leveraging mentorship, and developing unique skills, you can navigate the complexities of graduate education and set yourself up for a successful professional career. If you're considering this path, remember that each step, no matter how challenging, is a building block toward your dreams. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week, we are on a journey together. I call it a journey because you are on a journey toward graduate school right now. You could be at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about what is graduate school and do I really wanna do this and what type of program am I interested in? Or you could be at a point where you've already applied and now you're starting to figure out, did you get accepted? If you got accepted, what programs did you get accepted to and where might you want to attend? Or maybe you're in a program and you're watching for that light at the end of the tunnel and you're starting to plan for your future beyond graduate school, no matter where you are, it is a journey. And there are things that you can do along the way that will help you to find success. And you can find that success sooner. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]: So every week, I love being able to bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that can share their own journey. Not only their journey through their education, but their journey through their profession that they can then reflect back on to provide you with some some tips, some tools that you can add to your own toolbox and help you to be successful in the end. Today, we got another great guest. Doctor Mohamed Mkaouer is with us today. And doctor Makaur is a associate professor at the University of Michigan Flint in the College of Innovation and Technology, and I am really excited to be able to talk to him about his own journey coming to the United States after getting his bachelor's and master's from the Universite de Tunis to going to the to the universe the Missouri University of Science and Technology and then to the University of Michigan Dearborn to get his PhD in computer software engineering. So I'm really excited to be able to talk to him and learn more from him today and allow for you to learn from him as well. Mohamed, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:02:24]: Of course. It's my pleasure, Christopher. So when I heard about your podcast and I heard that this is an opportunity for me to really help students, of course, me being a professor working with students every day and also being a director of software engineering and artificial intelligence here at Intelligence here at the University of Michigan Flint, I cannot miss an opportunity for me to help students with any means possible, including understanding what they expect, what they can see, maybe hopefully inspire them, hopefully answer some of their questions, things that they may not realize. They're important, but they are. And me sharing my experience as a student, then perhaps a faculty or a profession, and how and how my experience as a, you know, my grad student studies have shaped my profession right now. I think it's something that I wanna share with everyone. And hopefully, it will be helping helpful to anyone who's listening. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:10]: So one of the things that I love doing first and foremost is turning the clock back in time. I know you did your undergraduate and master's degree work at the Universite de Tunis. And at some point during that undergraduate degree, you decided to continue on into the master's. So can you bring me that back initially to that point? What made you decide initially that you wanted to continue on after the bachelor's in your home country at your university to continue on for the that additional 2 years to get that master's degree? Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:03:40]: Well, the answer is going to be interesting because it will lead me to my first maybe tip, right? Which is perhaps I'll start with that is, you really need to find something that you truly enjoy. Okay? That's, I think, my number one, if not 0, advice that I would give to anyone is to really understand what is your vision, what do you dream about. Because all of us, we have something we dream about, Whether and it's a dream because you don't even consciously do it. It's just a dream that comes to you, and then you start developing that in the back of your mind, and then you decide that you wanna do this. So we all have things we dream about, and one of the things I would truly advise is for you to find that vision, that dream job, that career that you wanna build. Figure that out first, and build then a path towards that career. And maybe to answer your question now, Christopher, the reason why I moved from bachelor's to master's is because I did not know back then what exactly I wanted to do. So I was somehow postponing that decision and maybe gathering more experience and more skills and more knowledge that can maybe help me, you know, shape that direction. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:04:43]: So so back then, I was also a major. I was I had, like, a full GPA, honors student, so I was really doing great in school. So I was able to get a lot of job offers from industry, which I joined industry back then, but I was not fully convinced that this is what I picture myself doing from the rest of my career. So I decided to also do grad school to keep that to buy myself some time and try to see whether this new experience will help me figure out what I wanted to do next. Right? And obviously, that did not also work out because I decided to go for a PhD. Right? And during that time, what also made me decide to do PhD is because I realized that I'm really enjoying doing this. Because as you know, when you move to a grad school, you have you add that component of research, which I found really to be very interesting. So I decided to do maybe to do more of that and buy myself actually more time to know what I wanna do next. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:05:30]: And that's what brought me to the US, you know, to to continue my PhD studies and started in Missouri, like you mentioned. And then I moved to University of Michigan Dearborn, which was an extraordinary experience, you know, being in the system, and that's why I'm back here. So, yeah, during also that time, I realized that I'm really enjoying research, and I realized that this is something I wanna do for the rest of my career because after taking more steps towards it, I realized this is exactly what I want to do next, and I started developing the skill set for it. And even during that time, you would still not necessarily figure out all the different details. For instance, I was wondering whether I should do a research career in academia or industry, which is a typical question that a lot of students also get at their grad school. Am I fit for research? Should I go for academia or industry? And maybe my next advice is to try a little bit of both. It wouldn't hurt for you to try to test the waters. So you can try a little bit of both and see where you really see yourself fitting. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:06:22]: So what I did back then is I I started teaching courses at University of Michigan Dearborn while I'm still a student. You know, like, you know, so you can also as a student, you can also apply for greater opportunities. You know, try to see how the academic life looks like. Right? Try to be in the classroom, you know, so you can be a a teaching assistant, etcetera. So I started doing a little bit of that to have to see how that looks like and whether I enjoy doing that. Also, during the summer, I started to go for internships. I did some internships here in Detroit, down in Detroit, to see whether also I see myself feeling better in industry. And after spending some time in both, being a teaching assistant at the University of Michigan Dearborn and also doing some internships throughout the way, I realized that I enjoy really investing on people. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:07:04]: That was my real passion, and I realized that I'm going to continue for academia because this is what I saw myself being really happy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:11]: So I wanna go back to that jump from being in Tunisia to coming to the United States. And as you made that decision to continue your education, as you mentioned, to get the PhD, as many students do, as they're identifying that next opportunity, they have to do some research. They have to figure out for themselves, what am I looking for? What type of program? What's the best fit? So you ended up initially going to Missouri University of Science and Technology for a doctorate of philosophy in computer software engineering. Talk to me about bring me back to that point where you had that inkling that you wanted to go further and that research then that you went through to be able to identify that program as the right program. Now I know that that's not where you ended your degree. But what made you initially choose not only to go to Missouri University of Science and Technology, but also to choose the PhD in computer software engineering versus some other area? Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:08:15]: Well, it that decision first of all, I wanna give it since you you brought that back in that time, I was always looking for a major that that would strengthen my skills in different domains. This is how I thought I should be doing. So if you look at my first bachelor, I was specialized in what we called the e learning back then. It was computer science, but I was specialized in e learning. Then I wanted to try something slightly different or entirely different, so I did master's with distributed systems. So my thesis was around distributed systems and cloud computing. And then I realized that through my experience and industrial experience back then too, that what I really truly enjoy or triggered my curiosity in research was something with software. And that's how I get to know software engineering, and that's how I get to start looking for people who can give me more insights about how their that research is going to, to be looking like. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:09:05]: And that's when I met my academic adviser, and that's how I was able to see that the research in software engineering in particular has a lot of impact into industry. It actually helps developers be more productive. It helps the whole life cycle of software become more efficient, which will save us 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 of dollars combating errors and anomalies and vulnerabilities that we are living in right now in our infrastructure. Because obviously, that is actually, one of the biggest expenses we have in our economy is actually bugs, software bugs. It's still happening as we speak. Over $3,000,000,000 a year. That's an astronomical number. That's a big number. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:09:42]: So I realize that me helping people through that is something I'm interested in. So showing the impact of that research on people's lives is what made me realize that this is what I want to do for the rest of of my career. And I'm happy to see that to say that I'm doing this in multiple dimensions. 1 is research. You know, when I work in ways to improve the soft the qualities of the software. That's me helping a lot of companies such as Xerox, Microsoft right now, JetBrains Research, helping them build better frameworks for millions of people. That's through my research. Also through my teaching here at the University of Michigan Flint, I'm teaching right now as we speak a course called Software Testing and Quality Assurance. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:10:25]: So I was able to exercise my research into the classroom and help students write better code and learn how to test their own code, which hopefully will reduce and minimize the number of errors once they once they graduate and go to industry. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:38]: Now I know that sometimes when you go into a graduate program, it's smooth sailing, not many bumps in the road. Other times, things can happen, and you have to go with the flow. And you have to do some pivoting and some kind of go around the a curve that you might not have expected. And I'm gonna venture, I guess, to say that going from one institution to the next was probably not in your mind when you first went in, but that there was a little bit of a pivot there. And sometimes that happens at a PhD level, that you have a specific individual that you're working with, a faculty member that you're working with, and that person leaves, but they're still your mentor, you're the person that you're working with on your research. So we've never really talked about this on the show, but can you talk a little bit about that journey for you, going from one institution to a next as a PhD student? Because for some PhD students, this will happen, and it could derail their process if they're not aware of it. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:11:42]: That is correct. So this is going to be now specifically to PhD students. Right? So I think a lot of situations where you'll because a PhD study is typically, you know, a study would just go between 4 to 6 years long, so there is always a chance of you being mentored by a supervisor who might leave the institution. Because of how long that program is, there is a stronger chance or a stronger probability that you will end up having the situation compared to, for example, a master's student. Right? So for PhD students, yes, there is a chance, there is always a chance that your supervisor or your academic advisor or thesis advisor, depending on how you call it, will actually leave the institute. And now you have the choice somehow to either stay in your institute and find another advisor, which probably means you have to switch your research altogether to something different, or you got the chance to move with your advisor and continue that line of research. So to me, it was the situation, and it was also happening right when I started. So it was in the end of 1st year. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:12:39]: So I wasn't really too much committed into my research back then, like in terms of, for example, publications, etcetera, which made the situation easy for me to make a decision whether to stay or to move. Right? But of course, because I was so convinced into the research I'm doing, I was so into it, and I was also in very good terms with my advisor, which I believe this is a key to success. When you are looking for a PhD opportunity, get comfortable with your PhD advisor because that relationship is stronger than just a master advisor for instance, which is a short term relationship. But for a PhD, it's the apprentice. This is what they call, you know, the apprentice model. So you need to really be in the same page, the same vision of your adviser so that you can actually flourish together. And that's exactly the reason why I decided to move my adviser. And I told him back then when when he proposed it, do you wanna move me? I said, I will go with the moon with you if you're moving. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:13:27]: I don't care where you go. I'm just gonna be with you as long as we keep this research vision. And that's because I was able to achieve my first tip, which is knowing exactly what I want. You know? So that's when now you know how to do it and how you can navigate the different obstacles that you will get throughout the way. Because a PhD journey in particular has a lot of bumps. This is how it is. You know? My father always says, if you're doing something that tends to be easy, maybe you're doing the wrong thing. So so PhD was totally worth it, but it's also it was a difficult journey because of how, you know, elitist it is in in by nature. Dr. Mohamed Mkaouer [00:14:01]: Right? You are competing with people who are really world class researchers, People who are, you know, they develop and devote their life and their career for the greater good. So you are competing with this level of excellent researchers. So to be one of them, it...
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Graduate School Success: Insights from Nurse Anesthetist Grant Voisinet
03/03/2025
Graduate School Success: Insights from Nurse Anesthetist Grant Voisinet
Embarking on a journey through graduate school is transformative. For many students, it's a leap that demands resilience, curiosity, and unwavering determination. In this week's episode of Victors in Grad School we sat down with , a graduate of the program at the University of Michigan Flint, to discuss his path to becoming a nurse anesthetist. Grant shared invaluable insights and reflections on his journey from undergraduate education to becoming a full-fledged CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist) and educator. The Initial Decision to Pursue Graduate Education Grant Voisinet knew from early on in his nursing career that he wanted to further his education. His initial plan was to become a nurse practitioner, but exposure to the role of nurse anesthetists in the ICU where he worked changed his career trajectory. "Seeing what CRNAs did and the level of respect they commanded in the operating room piqued my interest," Grant recounted. It was through shadowing these professionals and discussing the field with an anesthesiologist that his passion for anesthesia solidified. Choosing the Right Program: Why U of M Flint? Selecting the right graduate program is a critical step. Grant chose the University of Michigan Flint for several reasons. He appreciated the program's well-structured progression—starting with heavy didactic coursework and gradually increasing clinical exposure. Furthermore, the university’s prestigious reputation and the supportive faculty played a significant role in his decision. As Grant put it, “The progression of U of M’s program and the supportive faculty made it stand out.” Transitioning Back to Education Returning to academia after working in the field requires significant adjustment. For Grant, preparing for the GRE and CCRN exams before applying to the DNAP program helped ease this transition. Once in the program, he experimented with various study techniques to find what worked best for him. “I tried four or five study techniques before finding the most efficient one,” Grant shared. His approach had to adapt further as he transitioned from didactic learning to hands-on clinical placements. Moving from Student to Educator After graduating, Grant’s commitment to education didn’t stop. He began teaching at U of M Flint while continuing to practice clinically. His drive to educate the next generation of nurse anesthetists stems from his own positive experiences and the desire to give back. As an instructor who also works in the OR, he brings real-world experience to his students. “I wanted to help shape the minds of the new CRNAs and ensure they provide the best care possible,” he said. Tips for Aspiring Graduate Students Grant offers prospective graduate students several pieces of advice: Expect Challenges: Graduate school is demanding, but maintaining focus on end goals is crucial. Ask Questions: Engaging with faculty and peers through questions enhances understanding and retention. Build Connections: Developing a support network among classmates is invaluable for sharing knowledge and experiences. Grant Voisinet's journey exemplifies the dedication and adaptability required to succeed in graduate school and professional practice. His story underscores the importance of selecting the right program, finding effective study habits, and maintaining a balance between professional practice and education. As Dr. Lewis highlighted, having mentors like Grant who understand and guide students through their academic and professional pathways is essential for success. For those considering a similar path, Grant’s experiences provide a roadmap that blends perseverance, continuous learning, and a passion for teaching. For more information on graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint, visit . TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, we are on a journey together, and I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Whether you are at the very beginning and just starting to think about, do I want to do this grand school thing? Or maybe you've applied and gotten accepted. Maybe you are in graduate school working toward that light at the end of the tunnel. No matter where you are, there is a continuum. There is a there is a journey that you're on that you're going to be going through from the very beginning to the very end. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:49]: And there are things that you can do to be able to find success sooner. And those are not always things that you might know about. And it's so it's important to be able to take the time to learn, to be willing to listen, and to grow from individuals that have gone before you, that have been able to figure out for themselves what did it take for them to be successful. Because what they can do is then share that with you to give you some tools for your toolbox to help you to find that success. And that's what this show is all about. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that have gone to graduate school, have been successful in graduate school, have come out on the other side, and have been successful, and they are sharing that success with you. Today, we got another great guest with us. Grant Voisonette is with us, and Grant is a graduate of the doctorate of nurse anesthetist program at the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: He did his undergraduate work at Saginaw Valley State University and went on to get that degree at the University of Michigan Flint. We'll talk about that and get to know him a little bit better in that regard. Grant, thanks so much for being here today. Grant Voisinet [00:02:10]: Yes. Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm excited to talk to everybody about, about my journey and, what it took for me to get to where I am now. So thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: I'm really excited to be able to have you here today. And, the, the first thing that I love doing in these opportunities to talk with people about their experiences is to turn the clock back in time. So I'm gonna go back to that moment that you made that that switch. And I know you you did your undergraduate work at Saginaw Valley State University. You graduated, went off into the workforce, got some experience, because that's kind of what you have to do to become a nurse anesthesist. Grant Voisinet [00:02:45]: You got to have some nursing experience to be able to do that. But you got that experience. But at some point in those first few years of being a nurse and being out in the field, you made a choice. You made a decision that you wanted to continue your education, and you made a decision to continue it and to work toward becoming a nurse anesthetist. Bring me back to that point. What made you make that decision of going to graduate school? Grant Voisinet [00:03:13]: Well, I kind of always knew I wanted to go back and get a further degree other than nursing. I enjoy helping people, and I enjoy being at the bedside. Originally, I wanna go back and be a nurse practitioner. I thought that that's the path that that I wanted to be. When I first got my job in the ICU outside of school, I worked with very sick patients, and I would get patients back from the operating room and nurse anesthetists would bring them to me. And the first couple of times, I didn't really know honestly what nurse anesthesia was. And then I started probing the CRNA that would bring patients back to me and ask them, like, what their job entailed and and they'd explain it to me. And once I saw all that they did, and when they walked into the ICU and commanded the room and everyone respected them, I was like, yeah, that's something that I wanna do. Grant Voisinet [00:04:02]: I wanna be able to still work at the bedside in this capacity with sick patients and to have my advanced degree. So that was really exciting to me. And so I started seeking out opportunities to shadow, CRNAs in in the actual operating room. 1 of my dad's friends happened to be an anesthesiologist, and so I chatted with him a couple of times to see what anesthesia was, And I fell in love with it. So that's kind of what pushed me in the CRNA direction versus the the nurse practitioner direction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:36]: And you chose to attend the University of Michigan, Flint. So talk to me about that, because there are other c n r CRNA programs that you could have chosen, whether it be in the state of Michigan or beyond. So I'm sure that you went through some process to be able to take a look at the different programs to try to figure out which would be the right one for you. And how did you choose U of M Flint as the place for you? Grant Voisinet [00:05:03]: So when I first started looking, I there's 5 programs in in the state of Michigan. They're all phenomenal programs. I worked 2 ICU jobs. One was at Mid Michigan and one of my coworkers had just gotten into U of M's program. And I she worked a little bit the 1st semester that she was in still in the ICU. And so I talked to her about the program and she discussed with me the setup of the program, the faculty, the clinical sites that they rotated to, and all what she said kind of checked the boxes for me. And it helps that to University of Michigan program and University of Michigan is a phenomenal school. And so all of those kind of combined that I obviously then did my research on the other schools, and I liked how you have influenced program was set up. Grant Voisinet [00:05:50]: A lot of didactic at the beginning, like a lot of your science classes, your core class you need to know before going to the operating room, and then it eases you in to clinical in the ORs 2 days a week and then full time. And I really liked the progression of the program that U of M has to offer. And then once I was in the program, I realized that, yes, how the program is set up is fantastic. The faculty were amazing. They're supportive, always willing to help and make sure not only didactically and clinically we are succeeding, but also our mental health, especially I went during COVID, our mental health during all that was in check-in and doing well as well because in order for us to succeed, at least for me, mental health is a big deal. And the faculty here in the DNAP program at U of M Flint is second to none. They are really phenomenal. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:40]: Now every student that goes through the graduate program has to make a transition. So you you went and you made a transition from both undergrad to workforce and worked for a number of years. So then you had to come back to education. You make that transition from the workforce to education. And the way that you're taught as an undergraduate student is not the same as the way in which you're taught as a graduate student. There's a transition there as well. So talk to me about transitions. And what did you have to do to find success as you transitioned into the program? And what did you have to do to maintain that success as you went through the entirety of the program? Grant Voisinet [00:07:28]: So for me, my whole life, I've had a strong foundation for scholastics. I worked hard in high school, I worked hard in undergrad as many people that are in this program or all the people that are in this program do, and in order to continue into the program, it's changed a little bit now, but we had to take the GRE was a test that we had to take and get a score on, and submit it to the program. Now there's another exam, it's called the CCRN, that nurses take to show their knowledge within the ICU or critical care area. And so before I got into school, I did all of these exams and studied for these these tests, which kind of kept me grounded in the studying aspect a little bit. So when I got into the program and started that 1st semester, I kind of already had started transitioning back into studying while I was preparing to to apply to the program, with those other exams. So that was beneficial. Other than that, I just kind of had to relearn different study habits for the amount of material that I learned. So instead of just having to study for this GRE or the CCRN, I had 5 different didactic classes of different areas of knowledge that I had to learn. Grant Voisinet [00:08:37]: And so the 1st semester, I think I went through 4 or 5 different study techniques to see which worked best for me. And then I finally found what was the most time efficient and beneficial for me, and I kind of stuck with that throughout the remainder of the program. As it progressed, didactic kind of decreased and clinical increased. And so when that happened, my mindset had to switch again. I had to go from, oh, how do I study for this exam to how do I prepare for this huge cranny that I have the next day? Or how do I prepare for my open heart rotation? And so then I had to reassess how to learn or prepare for that aspect. And then finally, at the end, we have to take a big certification or licensing exam to get our license, and then I had to kind of revert back to how I studied didactically at the beginning of the program. So it's kind of jumping back and forth throughout. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:28]: Now you graduated. You got out into the workforce. You're using that degree now, and you're also teaching in the program. So you've come back and now you're teaching and you're working with other students. Talk to me about that transition for yourself and what made you decide to not only go out and use the degree in a practical sense of working in the hospitals, but now coming back to educate other students. Grant Voisinet [00:09:55]: So even when I was in nursing, as a nurse at the bedside, I always had this desire to teach students. I liked having student nurses or orienting them essentially, and I knew I wanted to teach in some aspect. So when I started anesthesia school, the professors that we had, Doctor. Wahl, Jeffrey and Koviak, they still worked clinically at the bedside while also teaching full time the program. And I really liked that aspect of it, and I liked how they could have the best of both worlds essentially. So I graduated, I started working at McLaren, and I got students pretty quickly after I graduated, coming to clinical. And so I would be the preceptor at at the hospital for the cases. And I really loved watching this 1st semester clinical student come in and get their 1st intubation ever, the excitement, the real on their face, the relief on their face. Grant Voisinet [00:10:49]: And then I also enjoyed having a student that was struggling doing this, me walking them through different techniques that I do to be able to get a difficult intubation, and then the next one they get and they nail. And again, the excitement that they finally got this task that they were trying to do. And so seeing that in these students that I would get in in the clinical setting made me kinda think about, oh, maybe I wanna teach too. Maybe I wanna do the do both things like my faculty did. And so then I had a class in the winter of last year as a Leo, and so I taught one class. And then in the spring summer, I taught 2 classes and then a position opened and I applied and I got in. And since then I've been teaching full time there and I went down to once a week to once a month at McLaren working clinically, and so I can still do the anesthesia that I really love to do, but I can also help shape the minds of the new that are coming in and make sure that they are prepared to to give the best care possible to the patients that they take care of. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:49]: So now as you think back to the education that you got in the program, and as you look back at the education that you got and you think about the journey that you went on as a graduate student yourself, as you look at the students that you're interacting with now as a faculty member and the interactions that you've had with them, and you think about students just in general that are going to graduate school, what are some tips that you might offer those students that are considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Grant Voisinet [00:12:20]: I think the most important thing is they need to know that it's going to be challenging. It's going to be hard. And just to kind of get their mindset, and on some days, this is gonna suck. It's not gonna be fun, but kind of just look at the end goal and what they wanna do and how they wanna progress their lives. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I know as a student, I asked questions all the time. I wanted to make sure I understood what they were teaching me so I could keep my patient safe and so I could understand it, so I could teach it to somebody else one day. And asking questions, it's always gonna be beneficial. Grant Voisinet [00:12:55]: It's gonna make you think about why the answer is what it is or isn't what you thought it was. And so I think asking questions is the best piece of advice I can give. Along with that, if you're in the program, when you're going to a program, make connections with your classmates. Having that connection, honestly, when I was in school helped so much, maybe because it was COVID, but I was able to lean on them. When there was a hard case that I did, I could message them, and I could say, Hey, this was a kind of a crummy day at clinical. What would you do different? How could I improve for the next day? And they, we would talk about what happened. We would talk about difficult assignments and things like that. And just having that support system of people that are actually going through what you're going through was also very beneficial to me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:38]: Well, Grant, I just wanna say thank you. Thank for thank you for the the information that you shared today, for the sharing the journey that you went through, but also the work that you're doing to be able to educate additional students and helping other students through this process, through this journey that they're on. Because it can be challenging, as you said, and sometimes it can be hard. And having those mentors and those individuals there that understand the experience that they're going through and are there to shepherd and guide them through that is so critical. So I truly appreciate the work that you're doing and what you've shared today, and I wish you the best. Grant Voisinet [00:14:13]: Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate you having me, and I I look forward to chitchatting with you again about this maybe one day. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:19]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at .
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From Nursing to Academia: Dr. Denise Cooper's Educational Journey
02/24/2025
From Nursing to Academia: Dr. Denise Cooper's Educational Journey
Navigating graduate school while balancing life, work, and personal aspirations is no easy feat. Yet for , Program Director for the program at the , it’s a path laden with challenges, rewards, and invaluable lessons. In this week's Victors in Grad School, Dr. Cooper shared her journey and provided insights for those considering or currently navigating the rigors of graduate education. From Undergraduate to Advanced Practice Nursing Dr. Cooper’s journey began as an undergraduate at the University of Michigan Flint, where she initially set her sights on becoming a nurse anesthetist. Despite her passion and preparation, shadowing professionals in the field revealed that her aspirations didn’t align with the realities of the role. She realized she yearned for deeper patient interactions, a value she felt would be better fulfilled by becoming a nurse practitioner. “After shadowing, I’m so glad I did that because I decided that that definitely was not what I wanted to do,” Cooper shared. This pivotal moment highlighted the importance of real-world experiences in solidifying career decisions. The Leap to Doctoral Education After obtaining her Master’s degree in Nursing, Dr. Cooper could have easily settled into her role as a practicing Nurse Practitioner. However, her commitment to education and teaching led her to pursue a terminal degree. “The longer I was a nurse practitioner practicing, and I was also teaching, I started talking to some of the other faculty, and then the former director at the time encouraged me to go back,” explained Cooper. Her decision was fueled by a desire to grow both as an educator and a practitioner, and to enhance her capacity to contribute to her field. Balancing Act: Life, Work, and Education Dr. Cooper’s educational journey was marked by significant life events. “Like many nurses, I was a mother, married, had family that I was tending to, trying to be the career nurse, also career as a student, managing the family,” she noted. Notably, she had all her children while in grad school, a tremendous challenge she does not recommend frivolously. The key to her success? “Perseverance and the willingness to pivot when needed.” Her journey emphasizes that determination and adaptability are crucial to overcoming the myriad of obstacles that graduate students often face. Preparing for a Role in Academia and Administration Transitioning into a full-time faculty role and eventually into administration, Dr. Cooper distills her growth into one word: exposure. Engaging with diverse colleagues, participating in committees, teaching varying courses, and attending conferences broadened her perspective and honed her problem-solving skills. “Nursing is a lot of problem solving…there’s a lot of problem solving that goes on,” Dr. Cooper reflected. Embracing the philosophy that “everything is figureoutable” has been instrumental in her professional and personal growth. Offering Advice to Aspiring Graduate Students To those embarking on a similar journey, Dr. Cooper advises a commitment to the process. “You have to really want it … be committed to gaining this degree and being a professional… there will be sacrifices to your family, and you have to go in understanding that.” This commitment, combined with the understanding that faculty are dedicated to their success, forms the bedrock of a graduate student’s journey. Dr. Denise Cooper’s story is one of resilience, adaptability, and unwavering commitment. It serves as a testament and guide for current and prospective graduate students who aspire to navigate their own challenging yet rewarding paths in higher education. With the right mindset and support system, success in graduate school—and beyond—is within reach. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to the Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, we are on a journey together. Whether you are at the very beginning just starting to think about, do I want to go back to school? Do I wanna continue my education? Or maybe you've already applied and got accepted. Or or maybe you're in graduate school, and you're watching for that light at the end of the tunnel getting ready to graduate and head off into your new career area. No matter where you are, you are on a journey. And this show is here to be able to help you, to provide you with opportunities to learn, to grow, to gain some tools for your toolbox, and allow for you to be able to gain some perspective about things that you can do to find success sooner. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: That's why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that are able to share their own journey and what they learned in that journey to be able to help you on the journey that you're gonna be going on. Today, we got another great guest. Doctor Denise Cooper is with us today. And Denise is the program director for our doctorate of nursing practitioner program, the DNP program at the University of Michigan Flint. She did her undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan Flint and then went on to get both a master's and doctorate degree from the University of Michigan. Really excited to have her here for her to share her journey. Denise, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:01:42]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]: Really excited to have you here today and to talk to you further about your own journey. And for one of the things that I love to do at the very beginning is turn the clock back in time. So I would love to be able to go back. And I know, like I said, you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint. And at some point during that journey, during your early career, you you made a choice. You made a choice that you wanted to go back, continue your education, and get a further degree. Bring me back to that point. And what made you decide to move on to get that master's degree? Dr. Denise Cooper [00:02:22]: Well, I have to say that I kinda knew all along. So I didn't know all along that I wanted to be a nurse, but when I decided I wanted to be a nurse, I also decided that I wanted to be a nurse anesthetist. So my plan was to get my nursing degree and to work in a critical care area and to apply to anesthesia school at the University of Michigan Flint. After I became a nurse, I worked in the ICU, CCU area, which I absolutely loved. And while I was doing that, I decided that I was going to shadow some c r n a's that were at the hospital that I was working at. So I did end up shadowing 2 of them. And after shadowing, I'm so glad I did that because I decided that that definitely was not what I wanted to do, so that was quite a surprise to me. However, I did know that I wanted to advance my education, and so I determined that nurse practitioner would be the best option for me. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:03:16]: I really like the interaction with patients, And for me, that was really important, and I didn't think I was going to get that level of interaction as a CRNA, and but I knew I would get that as a nurse practitioner. I love helping people, and I just knew that I could help people at a higher level. And so that's what really brought me to University of Michigan in Ann Arbor to pursue my nurse practitioner master's degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:41]: Now you went on from there though, and you decided you got that that nurse practitioner degree. You could have stopped there. You could have said, I'm done. I'm just gonna go use this NP degree and go and practice and help people in different ways. But you made the choice to continue on and to get the DNP, the doctorate of nurse practitioner degree, the terminal degree for a nurse outside of the PhD in nursing. So talk to me about that, and what made you decide to push beyond the MSN? Dr. Denise Cooper [00:04:10]: So I didn't think I was gonna get my doctorate. I thought I was gonna stop at my masters. But the longer I was a nurse practitioner practicing, and I was also teaching, I started teaching at the University of Michigan Flint School of Nursing, and I started teaching in the undergraduate program. The more and more I was teaching in the undergraduate program, I moved into the graduate program as an just an adjunct faculty, and I was working as a nurse practitioner. I'm like, okay. I really like this. And I started talking to some of the other faculty, and then the former director at the time encouraged me to go back. And, so the more I researched the different terminal degrees, a PhD versus a DNP, I decided that a a practice degree was the area that I really wanted to pursue. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:04:51]: And it that it was I knew it was a terminal degree. I knew it was the right thing to do, and I knew that if if I wanted to work as a faculty member that I really needed to pursue completing my education, if you will, with that terminal degree. So I ended up going back to Ann Arbor and doing the MSN to DNP. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:08]: Now with every degree that a student goes through, there are transitions. So you had a transition from being a undergraduate student at the University of Michigan Flint, you transitioned into work, you transitioned from work, you back into the MSN, you you worked for a bit as an NP, You so you transitioned back into work, and then you transitioned back again and got that terminal degree. And you may have been doing some work while you were doing school too as as a part of that as well. So talk to me about well, as you think about all of those transitions, especially the transitions into different types of educational models, different schools, different programs, different expectations, what did you have to do as you transitioned into those different educational models and to find success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entire educational journey at each level? Dr. Denise Cooper [00:06:04]: There was a lot to maintaining it. So like many nurses, I was a mother, married, had family that I was tending to, trying to be the career nurse, also career as a student, managing the family, and just trying to make those decisions about what was the right thing to do. I will tell you that I had all of my children while I was in grad school, which, by the way, I don't recommend that to anyone, while I was getting my master's degree. So I've learned a lot along the way about what to do and what not to do. I made it work. It took me a little longer to get that master's, and I'm glad that I stuck with it and that I I stretched it out, but, you know, I kinda had to pivot. I had to to do things differently than I had planned, but it all worked out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:48]: I appreciate you sharing that because it's it's definitely not always easy. And there's a lot there's bumps in the road. There's things that you have to overcome. And it's not always going to be smooth sailing. There are definitely going to be challenges. And sometimes the challenges are easy to overcome. Sometimes they are more much more difficult to overcome. But the perseverance piece is so important to be able to keep pushing through and to find those supports along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:14]: Now I know that you have transitioned into being a full time faculty member, a administrator now in the program, the graduate program at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I guess as you think back now to all of the different education that you had that led you to where you are today, and you think back to the the things that you learned and the programs that you went through, what are some of the things that you feel prepared you best for the work that you do on a daily basis? Dr. Denise Cooper [00:07:46]: Well, you know, time is one thing. The the longer you hear, the more you learn, the more you involve yourself with. Right? Being on committees, involvement with the community, teaching different classes at different levels, encountering lots of different students. We have a really diverse faculty here, so just learning from all of them. I think each of those things helped me grow. So and and just exposing myself to people outside of the university, attending conferences and presenting at conferences, partnering with faculty at other universities for publications and research studies. Just all of those things really just helped me grow into the position that I'm in now. I wouldn't say I ever saw myself in management position. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:08:30]: I just always saw myself in a nurse or nurse practitioner position where I was helping people, but what I have found is I actually I help lots of people in this position too. Nursing is a lot of problem solving, and this position, whether it's faculty teaching a course or whether it's a director, there's a lot of problem solving that goes on. So I think my experience, many years of experience, has positioned me well to be able to problem solve and figure things out. One of my colleagues has a plaque on her desk that I absolutely love, and it says everything is figureoutable. And that's my motto, is everything is figureoutable. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:08]: Now I know that you work with a lot of graduate students of that you've worked with a lot of graduate students over the years, and you have had your own experience that has helped you to not only teach, but also to mentor and to help students along the way. As you think about students that you're seeing in your program right now, what are some of the biggest challenges that you see those graduate students running into? And what type of advice might you offer to them that would help them to be able to overcome those issues? Dr. Denise Cooper [00:09:39]: I would say grad students run into a variety of of issues, but I would say probably the biggest thing is that we're post licensure. Right? So we have nurses, and nurses are most of them are working, and a lot of them have families. And so unlike some other grad programs where students don't work, In our program, the students are working, and I would say that that way, the biggest thing that they encounter is time, a lack thereof. Grad school is heavy. It's not easy. It's doable, but it's not easy. And it does take a big time commitment, and there's a lot of sacrifices. I I always tell my students that there's you will make sacrifices. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:10:24]: There will be sacrifices to your family, and you have to go in understanding that and, you know, being committed to that. Students work a lot. They manage, lots of things within their families. Sometimes they carry the health insurance. And so we're very aware of a lot of the issues that our students encounter. And we do the best we can to have the curriculum designed to be able to help them through that, but they have to be committed and remain resilient and committed to the process. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:52]: Well, Denise, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for the advice that you've offered to students. This has been great. And, you know, as you think about success and students, whether they are in your program, whether they're in another they're going toward another graduate degree, are there any other pieces of advice you'd want to give to all graduate students? Dr. Denise Cooper [00:11:14]: I would say that, I guess, kind of I'm gonna go back to the commitment piece. You have to really want it. I want my students in my class, they have to want it more than I want it. So I want to make sure that they know that they're in the right place and that they're committed to gaining this degree and being a professional as a nurse practitioner or whatever graduate degree they're getting, physical therapist, physician's assistant, whatever it is, that that's their vision and that they're committed to that vision and also that they know that as faculty that we've all been there and we're committed to their success. We actually really care. We're not just here for a job. This isn't just a job to us. We are committed to their success. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:11:59]: Their success is our success. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:01]: Well, as mentioned, Denise, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today and for the work that you are doing with your students to be able to help them to be successful in the programs that they're in, and I truly wish you all the best. Dr. Denise Cooper [00:12:13]: Thank you. Appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:15]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at .
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The Transition from Student to Dean with Dr. Chris Douglas
02/17/2025
The Transition from Student to Dean with Dr. Chris Douglas
Graduate school is a journey that resonates differently with each individual. For , the Interim Dean of the College of Arts, Sciences, and Education, and a professor of economics at the University of Michigan Flint, this journey began with a passion for mathematics and science, and has culminated in an inspiring academic and professional career. In this week's episode of Victor's in Grad School, shares his experiences, offering valuable insights and strategies for achieving success in graduate school. Discovering His Path Dr. Douglas began his academic journey at Michigan Technological University, where he pursued a double bachelor's degree. It was during this time that his passion for economics was ignited. He initially embarked on an engineering degree due to a strong affinity for math and science. However, an economics course shifted his trajectory, showcasing how mathematical models could elucidate real-world economic phenomena such as unemployment, recessions, and inflation. This newfound interest led Dr. Douglas to pursue further studies in economics, leveraging the commonalities between economics and engineering, particularly in the use of advanced mathematical and statistical techniques. The Decision to Pursue a PhD The decision to pursue graduate studies is a significant one, often influenced by various factors. For Dr. Douglas, it was a combination of personal interests and the state of the job market in 2001, a period marked by an economic recession. Encouragement from a professor, who recognized his aptitude for economics, further motivated him to apply for PhD programs. Ultimately, Dr. Douglas chose Michigan State University for his PhD, citing proximity to home, the program's prestigious ranking, and a generous fellowship package as key factors. Transitioning to Graduate Studies Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate studies can be daunting. Dr. Douglas likens the experience to the difference between drinking from a garden hose and a fire hose, emphasizing the increased intensity and workload of a PhD program. He highlights the importance of building a support system by connecting with fellow classmates, especially in programs with rigorous coursework like economics or engineering. One of Dr. Douglas's crucial strategies for success was collaborating with peers on complex problem sets, fostering a sense of camaraderie and support during challenging times. This approach not only facilitated academic success but also helped mitigate the loneliness that can accompany prolonged graduate studies. From Academia to Administration While a PhD program prepares students for academic and research careers, it often doesn't directly equip them for administrative roles. Dr. Douglas's transition to the interim dean position was shaped more by accumulated experiences and mentorship than formal education. His progression from department chair to associate dean, and now interim dean, underscores the value of building relationships, seeking mentorship, and being open to feedback and continuous learning. Tips for Success in Graduate School Drawing from his extensive experience, Dr. Douglas offers several valuable tips for aspiring graduate students: Build Connections Form relationships with classmates and professors to create a network of support and collaboration. Seek Help Early Utilize office hours and resources provided by faculty to stay ahead, especially in challenging subjects. Don't Procrastinate Begin work on major projects early and break them down into manageable steps to avoid feeling overwhelmed. Embrace Mentorship Seek guidance from experienced faculty and peers to navigate the complexities of graduate school and career development. Dr. Chris Douglas’s journey through graduate school to his current role as an interim dean illustrates the multifaceted nature of academic and professional success. His insights serve as a valuable guide for current and prospective graduate students, emphasizing the importance of planning, collaboration, and continuous learning. For those embarking on this journey, Dr. Douglas’s story is a testament to the rewards that perseverance, support, and strategic planning can bring. For more information on graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint, visit . TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, walk with you on this path that you're on because it is a journey. You you and I are on a journey together as we're looking at graduate school, as you're considering graduate school, as you you know, and and you might be at many different places. You could be just starting to think about graduate school, haven't even applied. You might maybe you applied, and you just got that acceptance letter. Maybe you're in graduate school, or you're getting toward the end of graduate school, and you see that light at the end of the tunnel. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: No matter where you are, this is a journey that you're on. And throughout this journey, there are many opportunities for you to be able to find success. And that's that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to find success sooner. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that can talk about those experiences and share what they learned in their own graduate school journey to be able to help you on yours. This week we've got another great guest. Doctor Chris Douglas is with us. And Chris is the interim dean of the College of Arts, Sciences, and Education and a professor of economics at the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:34]: And he's been at the University of Michigan Flint for quite a few years. And his journey led him from being a undergraduate student at Michigan Technological University to becoming a PhD student at Michigan State University. So we're gonna be talking about that journey that he went on and which led him to being a faculty member and working with students like yourself in at the University of Michigan Flint. Chris, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:02:00]: Oh, you're welcome. Great to be here, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]: I'm really excited to have you here. And I wanna turn the clock back in time first because I as I mentioned, you did your undergraduate work at Michigan Technological University and got a double bachelor's degree when you were up there. And at some point in that time that you were working on those bachelor's degrees, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to continue with your education. Bring me back to that point. And why did you choose to go to graduate school? Dr. Chris Douglas [00:02:31]: So if I wanna go way far back, I graduated high school in 1997. I I always thought I wanted to be an engineer because I liked math. I liked science, and I was pretty good at both. So I went to Michigan Tech because they had a pretty good engineering program, gave me a good financial aid package. So I started my engineering program. It would be fall of 1997. And then as part of general education, I took an economics course. I had never taken economics in high school. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:02:53]: I took an economics course. It was principles of macroeconomics. I forget if this was 1997 or 1998. I thought it was fascinating. I really thought it was interesting how you could take pretty straightforward mathematical economic models and use them to make real world predictions about the complicated world around us. They explain things like unemployment, recessions, inflation, the business cycle, all the things that we care about as voters, as American citizens, as workers. So I decided to take a microarchaplics course and then I had transferred in several credits because I dual enrolled as a high school student. So that gave me some flexibility to pick up another bachelor degree without really extending my stay in college. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:03:35]: So since I liked economics quite a bit and it turns out there's a lot of commonalities in terms of of the techniques used in economics and the techniques used in engineering. And would it appear that way to be be that way on the surface, but economics involves, especially at the graduate level, lots of math, lots of calculus, lots of statistics, lots of the same techniques used as engineering. So the two majors really complemented each other. So then I became a senior in 2,001. I thought I wanted to get a job in the engineering field. I went on several job interviews, and I started to think like, no. This really isn't for me when I started learning about what a career in engineering would entail. It's for a lot of people just wasn't really for me. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:04:13]: And you might remember back in 2001, there was a recession, so the job market wasn't really that robust anyway. And then an economics professor during an office hours visit kind of played at a bug saying, no. You're pretty good at economics. You might think about a PhD program. And that bug in my ear kinda grew. And then I decided to take the GRE, apply to graduate schools, got accepted to Michigan State, and the rest is history. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:37]: Now you just mentioned that you went to Michigan State University for your PhD in economics, and every person goes through a process of looking at their options. And I'm sure you had had options out there. You applied to numerous schools to look at your options. Why did you choose to attend Michigan State University for your degree? Dr. Chris Douglas [00:04:58]: So a few reasons. 1st, I was close to home. I grew up in Michigan. I bounced around a lot as a kid, but always in Michigan. So Michigan State was maybe 3 hours from my hometown, which was nice. Michigan State was a a highly ranked program in the economics field. Depending on the ranking, it's anywhere between 25th 35th, something like that. So we're respectively ranked, which would make it easier to get a tenure track job, which was my goal. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:05:22]: The faculty were well published, heard good experiences from the graduate students I talked to when I visited campus, went thinking where I wanted to attend, and they gave a a generous fellowship package where, in my 1st year, I was able to serve as a teaching assistant. I always wanted to teach as as well as doing research, so teaching was really important to me. So that teaching assistantship my 1st year meant that I would hold office hours, grade papers, I worked at a help room. But that really laid the groundwork for me to teach my own independent class since my 3rd year and beyond in graduate school. And that teaching experience was really crucial to get my tenure track job here at the University of Michigan Flint. And it really hit the ground running because once I graduated from the PhD program, I wasn't teaching 1 class a semester like I was at graduate school. I was teaching 3 classes a semester while trying to work on research just like I was doing at graduate school. So graduate school is a lot of work, but once I got my full time job here, the workload totally increased. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:06:16]: So having that teaching experience really helped me hit the ground running. It really got my foot in the door to academia because prospective employers saw that I had the teaching experience. And the course evaluations are pretty good for my classes, so I thought that would help. Universities feel pretty comfortable that they were hiring a decent instructor. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:34]: Now every person, as they go from one educational model to a new educational model, from one degree to another degree, you have to learn things. You have to figure out what is different, but also what is the same. And you did make that transition going from the bachelor's degree at Michigan Technological University to Michigan State University. And you made that transition from a bachelor's into the PhD, and you found success. You got through the program. You got your degree. And I guess as you think back to the education and the transition that you went through, what did you have to do as you transitioned into your PhD to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout graduate school? Dr. Chris Douglas [00:07:21]: So a PhD program is just more much more intense than a bachelor degree program. So if a bachelor degree program is like drinking from a garden hose, a PhD program is like drinking from from a fire hose. So you just have to be ready for the amount of work, the amount of responsibility that comes from being in a graduate program. I would assume a master's program I've never been to in a dedicated master's program, but I'm guessing a master's program is somewhere between a bachelor and a PhD program. So it's kinda like anything else in life. The farther you go, the more the workload steps up. You just have to be ready for that and expect it. And then think through strategies of how to be successful. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:07:59]: So one strategy I found was and this was absolutely crucial for me, was to get to know my fellow classmates in graduate school because especially in the 1st year, we would work through lots of problem sets. Economics graduate school is a lot like an engineering program that we have these complicated problem sets that require lots of complicated mathematics to complete. And that's just much more feasible to do at a group setting rather than by yourself. And it's also good to have that support system too because graduate school can feel like a bit of a lonely experience. A PhD program is 4 plus years. It took me 5 years. You know, 6 years is not uncommon. And you're doing that in your twenties where everything feels like a lifetime at that point because you're in your twenties. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:08:38]: You're still pretty young. So it's really hard to see that light at the end of the tunnel, although looking back, 5 years feels like a blink of an eye. So it's just good to have that support system where everyone's in the same boat, everyone has the same goal, get through this graduate program so that we can, you know, fulfill our postgraduate goals. And a PhD program outfit is a 10 year track job, but in an economics PhD program, it's not always a 10 year track job. It could be a job at industry. That's pretty common. A job with the federal government. That's also very common for people who work for, say, the Federal Reserve or the Federal Trade Commission, things like that. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:09:12]: But everyone has the same common goal of, you know, get through the graduate program and in particular, get through the 1st year. Because of the PhD program, it's very common to have, like, a 1st year exam. So my 1st year exams are called the preliminary exams, so those lasted over the course of 2 days. It was 4 exams over 2 days. You had to pass those, we called them prelims, to continue on to the 2nd year. So everyone in the program had the same goal, pass the prelims. So that made it really crucial to have the support structure with the with the rest of the our classmates. And I think that's probably true for any other graduate program, including master's programs. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:09:48]: You'll get to know your students in the program. Most programs are probably cohorted. So get to know the students in your cohort because you're all in the same boat. You're working on the same assignments. You have very similar career goals. It's just very, very helpful to have that support system. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:03]: Now you completed that PhD. You became a professor of economics at the University of Michigan, Flint. And currently, as I mentioned, you are the interim dean for the College of Arts, Sciences, and Education. And I usually ask, when you think back to your graduate education, how did that prepare you for what you do? Now I will say that as a professor, it probably makes sense. You're teaching courses that you learned about, you you researched about, that you figured out along the way. But I guess now as an administrator working with many different programs, and you look back at your graduate education, how did your graduate education prepare you to be a interim dean for a college? Dr. Chris Douglas [00:10:46]: Yeah. That's an interesting question because I think the right answer is it really didn't. A PhD program prepares you to be a tenure track faculty member, in particular, a tenure track faculty member at a research university because the focus of a PhD program in a major research university like Michigan State is work on research, you know, published in top journals, which, of course, is important. But there's not as much of a focus on teaching, although that might have changed. It's been nearly 20 years since I've graduated my PhD program. So that's why I thought it was really crucial to get that teaching experience. And there's really no preparation to serve at a leadership capacity at academia. And I think that probably makes sense because to to serve at a leadership capacity, that's gonna be mid career at the earliest for academia because you have to get through the tenure process first to get tenure as an associate professor. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:11:35]: That's 6 years. To get tenure to get promoted to a full professor, that's probably another 6 years minimum after that. So we're talking a dozen years after that first tenure track hire that's pretty far removed from a PhD program. So I think it's kind of the lessons you learned along the way and those gradual steps up in the leadership process that prepares you to take on a dean position. So I began as department chair after I became an associate professor back in 2013. I served as department chair in economics for quite a while, probably close to a decade. And then the College of Arts and Sciences before education was brought on board was reorganized into larger departments. And then I later served as the department chair of Social Sciences and Humanities. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:12:17]: I think I began that in 2022. That I was associate dean for a semester that I became interim dean starting the fall of 2024. So I think, a lot of leadership is just a learning experience. You get more and more responsibility. You take on larger and larger leadership roles, and, you know, things just kind of progress from there. So I think a lot of it's mentorship too. I was fortunate to have some senior faculty mentor me when I was younger. People in the dean's office mentored me, very well when I was working my way up through the ranks. Dr. Chris Douglas [00:12:49]: So I think a lot of it is experience, mentorship, and just learning along the way. Being open to feedback, course correction, and just working with people, building relationships. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:00]: Now I know that you've had an opportunity to work and to teach and to connect with many different graduate students over the years. And as you think about not only your own graduate school experience, but also the experience you've had as a faculty member, as a mentor to other graduate students, and you think about success, what are some tips that you might offer to students, no matter what type of graduate degree that they are going into, that would help them find success sooner? Dr. Chris Douglas [00:13:28]: So I've taught in the master's of...
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The Power of Mentorship and Identity in Academia with Dr. Sapna Thwaite
02/10/2025
The Power of Mentorship and Identity in Academia with Dr. Sapna Thwaite
The journey through graduate school is multifaceted, filled with challenges, growth, and incredible learning opportunities. In a recent episode of Victor's in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis sat down with , Vice Provost for Academic Affairs at the , to discuss her journey and offer invaluable advice for students. Here’s a deep dive into the insights they shared. The Birth of a Calling: Choosing Graduate School Dr. Thwaite’s passion for psychology and education was sparked during her undergraduate studies at the University of Michigan. Initially drawn to English for her love of reading and writing, it was a developmental psychology class under Dr. Scott Harris that truly inspired her. This powerful mentorship and hands-on research experience solidified her resolve to pursue a PhD in educational psychology at Michigan State University. Choosing the right graduate program involves self-reflection and research. Dr. Thwaite emphasized the importance of aligning your research interests with the strengths of the institution. Staying close to home was another factor for her, but it was the fit with Michigan State’s academic environment that ultimately guided her decision. Transitioning and Finding Success in Graduate School Every academic transition comes with its challenges. For Dr. Thwaite, moving from a structured undergraduate environment to the flexible yet demanding world of graduate studies required adjustments. She noted the importance of time management and finding supportive mentors. "Lean into uncertainty," she advised, recognizing that new experiences and diverse interactions are key to growth. Dr. Thwaite highlighted that mentorship is not restricted to one individual. Instead, she encouraged students to seek mentorship from multiple sources, including faculty and peers. Embracing a multi-mentor model allowed her to integrate diverse perspectives and cultivate a robust professional identity. Applying Educational Psychology to Real-World Roles Dr. Thwaite’s expertise in educational psychology not only shaped her academic path but also her approach as Vice Provost. She noted the centrality of lifelong learning and development in any professional field. Creating opportunities for faculty and staff professional development is a priority for her, ensuring that everyone at the university continues to grow and excel. In her current role, she applies theoretical knowledge to practice by fostering an inclusive, dynamic environment. Recognizing diverse identities and backgrounds as critical components of a cohesive academic community, she aims to bring out the best in everyone by emphasizing self-awareness and mutual respect. Tips for Graduate School Success Success in graduate school requires stepping outside of your comfort zone and engaging with the community. Dr. Thwaite’s advice is particularly relevant for those entering graduate programs: Embrace Uncertainty: Lean into the unknown and take initiative to explore new areas. Seek Multiple Mentors: Connect with faculty, peers, and professionals who offer different perspectives. Be Patient and Reflective: Give yourself time to adjust and self-reflect on your progress and decisions. Engage Actively: Join groups, clubs, and attend office hours to build a supportive network. Navigating graduate school is a transformative journey. As Dr. Thwaite articulates through her experiences, every step, whether smooth or challenging, contributes to the development of a well-rounded, successful academic and professional life. For those contemplating further education, or already on this path, her insights serve as a valuable guide. For more insights on how to successfully navigate graduate school, stay tuned to Victor's in Grad School and explore the range of programs offered at the University of Michigan Flint. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, we are on a journey together, and I love being able to walk with you on this path that you're on. I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. You might be at the very beginning just starting to think about graduate school, just starting to look at schools or programs, thinking to yourself, what do I have to do to get to that next step? Or maybe you've already applied or gotten accepted. You could even be in a program right now. No matter where you are, you are on a journey working on your education, working on your future career trajectory and goals, the vision that you have for yourself, And this show is here to be able to help you along that journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]: Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people that have done different things in their own career, but also have gone through graduate school and have been successful. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about giving you some tips, some hints, some insights, some things that you could put into your own toolbox that'll help you to find success in that graduate school journey. Today, we got another great guest with us today. Doctor Sumna Thwaite is with us today, and doctor Thwaite is the vice provost for academic affairs at the University of Michigan Flint. She's also been a long time faculty member at the University of Michigan Flint in the College of Education. And really excited to be able to have her here today to talk about her own experience and to introduce her to you. Sapna, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:01:50]: Thank you so much, Chris. I really appreciate this opportunity. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]: Well, I love being able to talk to you about this journey that you went on as a student that led you to where you are today. So I'd love to turn the clock back in time. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan. And at some point during that journey, you had an inkling that you were gonna go on. So there was a little bit of time between your undergraduate degree and when you went to get your PhD. So either during your undergraduate days or early in your career, you chose you identified that there was something, something that was drawing you back in to get that additional degree. Talk to me about that. Bring me back to that point where you just started thinking about graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:43]: What made you decide that going back to graduate school was what you wanted to do? Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:02:47]: So when I was an undergraduate student, I decided very early on that I wanted to major in psychology, and I wanted to major in English. My reasons for Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:02:51]: wanting to psychology. And I wanted to major in English. My reasons for wanting to major in English were not practical in any way. It was because I love to read, and I also wanted to cultivate my writing skills. My interest in psychology was because I felt like psychology was perhaps a calling for me. I really enjoy my interactions with people, understanding human behavior, and understanding the way that people think. I also have always loved being around children, and I've loved being around teenagers and kind of learning about what motivates them and how they grow and they develop. And so when I was in my junior year of college, I took a psychology class that was focused on development, human development, and the professor was particularly inspiring, doctor Scott Harris. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:03:40]: I'm really happy to say that I'm still able to maintain contact with him all these years. But, as I sat in his lecture hall, I was just completely mesmerized with what he had to share, his insights about life. And it made me realize that I wanted to aspire towards a similar role in the future. And so I finally kinda conjured up the courage to go up to him after class to have a conversation with him, which was a really big deal, in a lecture hall of 200 students. And he somehow remembered my face. And later on, I was roaming through the psychology offices looking for a particular professor, not him, And he stopped me in the hallway and asked me if I wanted to explore the possibility of being one of his research assistants and for a whopping $6 an hour. And I was so excited because this is a person who I really idolized, I guess you could say, really looked up to, and I thought I had a lot of information that I could learn from him. So as I started to work with him, I realized I really wanted to go to graduate school. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:04:40]: So I was in my junior year and he was basically basically a really powerful mentor who helped me then decide and shape my next steps. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:47]: So as you were starting to think of those next steps, and you ended up deciding to go to Michigan State University to work on a PhD in educational psychology, every person goes through a different process as they are looking at different programs, looking at different institutions. Talk to me about what you did to be able to not only look at all of the options that were available to you, but also that led you to ultimately decide that Michigan State University's PhD in educational psychology was the right one for you? Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:05:23]: Okay. So when I was a junior in undergrad, I was leaning more towards pursuing a PhD in developmental psychology, and I was very eager to gain research experience because I knew that I was aspiring towards a research related, degree. And so one of the things that I did that I would really strongly recommend anybody do, while they're perhaps an undergraduate student, is I volunteered to work on a research project, and that had to do with infant cognition. I was making smiley faces at babies and seeing how they reacted to me. I also participated in the research experience with the professor I just mentioned to you earlier, doctor Paris. That was a paid $6 an hour job, and it involved doing research in a school setting. So I basically tried to expose myself to research as much as I could as an undergraduate student and realized at that point that I was really more interested in learning about learning and development in educational settings. And so that's what made me deviate from that original idea of becoming a developmental psychologist and go towards ed psych. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:06:25]: I did work with that particular professor, and this really speaks to the power of mentors, to get some suggestions about possibilities. And I had really wanted to stay closer to home, though I did apply to a wide range of PhD programs. But the one thing that was emphasized to me was making sure that there was a good fit between the graduate school that you are applying to and your own research interests. So I had cultivated my research interests a little bit, as an undergraduate student. No. I had not presented it or, you know, written any papers, but I did have a sense as to where I wanted to go. So actually, I did not even have a gap between my undergrad and my PhD program. The I was advised for the kind of work that I wanted to do that going into kind of more of a straight shot doctoral program would allow one to get the equivalent of a master's degree along the way. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:07:16]: And so if you decide after taking your comprehensive exams, I think that's the point where that you no longer wanna continue on in the doctoral program, you can exit with a master's. So I had an out potentially, but and and and Michigan State University happened to have a faculty member whose work resonated with me because he was a developmental psychologist in education, which is how I was starting to kind of identify myself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:40]: Every time that you go into a new type of degree, there are transitions. You go from high school to get your bachelor's, from bachelor's into a a master's or PhD program. At every level, the way that you're being taught is a little bit different, the expectations are different, and what you have to do to find success is going to be a little bit different. Talk to me about those transitions for yourself. As you went from the University of Michigan as a undergraduate student into that master's, doctorate program at Michigan State University, what did you have to do as you're going through that transition to find success? But also, what did you have to do to be able to maintain that success throughout the entire time in that program? Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:08:29]: That is a really good question. So I identify as being a creature of habit. I'm very into routines and rituals, and I like being in comfortable settings, surrounded by people who I know. So for me, that transition from undergrad to grad school was a big, big leap. I was also only 22. My brother said to me my older brother said to me, you're making a mistake. You should take some time off and work. Do something else. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:08:54]: Get a research position. Do something to gain experience. But I was very focused on going to Michigan State because I had gotten in and I received a really good opportunity to do research there with a professor who I really, really was excited to work with. And so it seemed like the right thing to make that step. But the one thing that I had to do as I made that transition is really lean into uncertainty because this was the first time that I was moving into a territory that I really didn't know a lot about. You know, going to college, I had a lot of people around me who went to college. But going into a doctoral program in a field that I didn't have anyone around me who I could turn to, I didn't have but they'd accept with the exception of that faculty member who was a really powerful mentor for me in undergrad, I didn't have any friends or any family who had decided to pursue a doctorate in education or psychology. So I was really, like, having to lean into the uncertainty and be patient with myself and really just allow that transition to occur. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:09:57]: That 1st year was very bumpy for me, partially because I was really encountering a lot of different doctoral students with very different professional backgrounds and very different educational backgrounds than me. Some of them had been teachers. Some of them had been working for foundations. Some of them had been out in the field in other ways. And, you know, I was really one of the youngest ones there and probably one of the least experienced. But I was coming in with a psychology background, and that was really what my focus was, being a psychologist in education. And so I learned over time, the value of being able to embrace your own identity, your own emerging professional identity, but also embracing those of others and realizing there's a reason why we're all there together, to learn from each other. And it took me probably a good year before I was able to figure that piece out. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:10:44]: But it was it was not an easy transition in the beginning. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:47]: You know, we always have to be able to do what we can to be able to learn from those pieces and then take those pieces to be able to make those adjustments. What were some of the initial adjustments that you had to make as you were learning that would that helped you as you went further and you got that experience under your belt? Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:11:05]: I think one of the things was my undergraduate experience was a little bit more structured. Graduate school is less structured in some ways. Most of the courses occur from 4 to 7 PM. And then finding ways to manage your time during the day, I was doing research. I was also taking courses. I was also doing my own independent research projects, and I also, dabbled with a few teaching assignments in between. So, learning how to manage my time was a really big piece. And luckily, that was not something too difficult for me because I tend to be very structured in the way that I approach my daily life. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:11:36]: The other piece was finding those people who I could connect to, and in some ways, not just relying on finding one mentor, which I had in undergrad, but looking to take, in some ways, and this is gonna sound funny, but it it will make sense as I explain it, taking bits and pieces of the people around me and kind of starting to formulate that sense of self that I wanted to have in the future, that professional self that I was aspiring towards. So, for example, later on, as I got into my dissertation, on my dissertation committee, one of the faculty was incredibly creative and an out of the box thinker. I was not as creative. And so I took bits and pieces of what I learned from him and tried to instill a little bit more creativity in the work that I was doing. I had a colleague who had a vast knowledge of literacy practices and what my dissertation topic was gonna draw upon literacy. I took a lot of her knowledge and expertise, and that guided me to learn in different areas that I did not know a lot about. So realizing that that mentor does not just come in the shape of 1 person, but that there are bits and pieces of people around you that you can take that can help you start forming your own identity and your own future professional self. So I really give a lot of credit to those people that I interacted with, those faculty, but I had to seek them out. Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:12:48]: And it didn't just involve taking classes with them or having them on a committee, but actually having conversations with them and learning about their own trajectories as a part of that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]: Now you mentioned that you are currently the vice provost for academic affairs, and that's after a number of other positions that you've had at the University of Michigan Flint. And your professional career has been at the University of Michigan Flint, so you have a long history here at our university. For a number of people, when they think they got a PhD, they're they're teaching, and it it makes sense how one thing leads to another. Talk to me about the things that you learned in that educational psychology doctorate program. How has what you learned in that program led you to the work that you're doing today as vice pros provost for academic affairs? And what do you draw from in regard to that degree on a daily basis that has helped you to be able to be successful in that position? Dr. Sapna Thwaite [00:13:46]: That's a great question. Okay. So as I reflect here for a moment, one of the things that I have recognized now as a vice provost and, you know, I've been at U of M Flint now for almost 25 years. One of the things that I've recognized is the centrality of learning and development, in our lives as humans and and in our professional lives in whatever we do, whether we are faculty, staff, scholars, administrators, whatever. That learning and development is a is a lifelong process. We are always learning. We are always developing and that we need to create opportunities, like, at least as a vice provost, one of the things that I feel very strongly about is creating opportunities for our faculty and staff to be able to learn and develop. One of my major areas of focus next semester is professional development of all kinds, professional development for faculty and staff related to students and their sense of belonging, professional development related to research, making the transition from being an associate professor to a full professor, learning...
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Law School to PhD: Dr. Kimberly Saks' Academic Journey
02/03/2025
Law School to PhD: Dr. Kimberly Saks' Academic Journey
Graduate school is often seen as the next big leap in one's educational and professional journey. Whether you're considering law school, a PhD, or another advanced degree, the path ahead can seem both exciting and daunting. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School podcast, Dr. , a professor at the , shared her personal experiences and invaluable advice for successfully navigating graduate school. Here's a comprehensive summary of her insights, from making crucial decisions to leveraging opportunities for future success. Deciding to Take the Leap For many students, the transition from undergraduate studies to graduate school represents a significant turning point. Dr. Saks emphasized the importance of self-reflection in this process. "You have to ask yourself why you want to pursue a graduate degree," she noted. For her, the journey began at Eastern Michigan University, where her dual interests in political science and French led her to consider both law school and a master's in public administration. After weighing her options and considering her passion for the legal field, Dr. Saks opted for law school. "I enjoyed reading cases and synthesizing them," she explained. Importantly, financial considerations like scholarships also played a crucial role in her decision to attend the University of Detroit Mercy Law School. Navigating the Graduate School Experience Different graduate programs come with unique challenges. For Dr. Saks, transitioning from law school to a PhD program in political science was itself a learning curve. She highlighted two key strategies for managing these transitions: maintaining a strong support system and continuously honing academic skills like reading. "Reading is like exercise," Dr. Saks advised, emphasizing the need to keep intellectual stamina strong. Whether it's books or long articles, maintaining a habit of reading can make the academic transition smoother. The Importance of a Support System One essential piece of advice that Dr. Saks offered was the importance of having a reliable support system. "Make sure you have those conversations with your support network about what to expect," she suggested. From family responsibilities to social commitments, having understanding and supportive people around you can make a significant difference. Moreover, regular check-ins with your support network can help everyone stay on the same page. This becomes especially important when the rigors of graduate school start taking a toll, mentally or physically. Seizing Opportunities Graduate school is more than just coursework; it's a gateway to numerous opportunities that can shape your career. Dr. Saks urged students to take advantage of the various opportunities that come their way, including research projects, internships, and conferences. These experiences often serve as stepping stones for future professional success. In particular, Dr. Saks emphasized the value of experiential learning. "Take risks, even if it's outside traditional academic work," she advised. Such experiences not only enrich your resume but also provide invaluable networking opportunities and practical know-how. Conclusion: The Power of Persistence Dr. Kim Saks' journey through law school and her subsequent PhD is a testament to the power of persistence and the benefits of a well-thought-out plan. From understanding your motivations to leveraging available opportunities, these strategies can help any aspiring graduate student navigate their path more effectively. Remember, the journey through graduate school is a marathon, not a sprint. Equip yourself with the right tools and support systems, seize opportunities as they come, and keep your end goals in sight. The experience is demanding, but the rewards—in terms of personal and professional growth—are well worth the effort. For those considering further education, or already embarking on this journey, Dr. Saks' advice provides a valuable roadmap. Take it to heart, and you’ll not only survive but thrive in your graduate school experience. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. This podcast allows for you an opportunity to be able to look under the surface, to be able to learn from other people, and to be able to learn more about what it takes to find success in graduate school. This is definitely a journey. You may just be at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about graduate school. You might be post application where you're waiting on that application decision, or maybe you got your decision already, and now you know where you've been admitted to and you're making that decision of where to go. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:58]: No matter where you are, this show is here to be able to help you to be able to find success and find success sooner as you go through this journey for yourself. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that can walk you through what they learned along the way to help you to be able to maybe miss some of those stumbling blocks that they might have hit, but also to add some add some tools to your own toolbox that'll make it even easier for you as you go through this as well. This week, we got another great guest with us. Dr. Kimberly Sachs is with us today, and doctor Sachs is a professor at the University of Michigan Flint. She's the program director for our master's in public administration program, but also works in political science. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her about her own experience and for her to share some of that journey with you. Doctor Sachs, thanks so much for being here with us today. Dr. Kim Saks [00:02:03]: Thank you for having me. I'm pretty excited about this. I appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here as well. Well, one of the first things that I always love doing is I love turning the clock back in time. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at Eastern Michigan University. And as you were going through that educational journey for yourself and getting that bachelor's degree in political science and French, at some point, you made a decision. You made a decision to go to law school. And I would love to go back to that point. And I wanna kind of hear what you were thinking in your head to be able to say to yourself, I wanna take that next step. Why did you decide you wanted to take that job and go to law school? Dr. Kim Saks [00:02:49]: So at that point in time, I kind of had 2 paths in mind. 1 was, obviously, to go to law school. The other was to go and actually get a master's public administration degree, which is kind of ironic that I direct that program now, because I knew I wanted to work in public service in some capacity. I just didn't quite know which direction I wanted to go, whether it was in the legal sector or whether it was more of an administrative type role. Ultimately, because of some coursework I had towards the end of my degree, I really felt like the legal field was right for me, And I really enjoyed reading cases, synthesizing them, and it felt it just felt like the right path for me based on some coursework and some discussions with faculty that I had. And I even had looked into joint MPA JD degrees at the time, but figured I kinda wanted to focus on the law degree and not get too turned in different directions. So I always had contemplated that there might be further education after that, but never, never kind of anticipated the path that I ended up taking. So that was the decision. Dr. Kim Saks [00:04:00]: And then I, I took the LSAT knowing that that dual path was still open to me and did well enough and had a good enough GPA that I had opportunities to go to law school. I had a scholarship to go to University of Detroit Mercy, and so I took advantage of that and and went there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]: Well, that was gonna be my next question, and and maybe it was the scholarship alone. But every person goes through a process of being able to identify where that next step is. You chose to go to the University of Detroit Mercy Law School. And talk to me about that decision process for yourself and what were some of the things that you were primarily looking for, and what would the what the ultimate decision making was that led you to decide to study at the University of Detroit Mercy? Dr. Kim Saks [00:04:46]: So the scholarship helped, but it wasn't the only thing. Because UDM is a private school, so the tuition is higher. So a scholarship will help make it more affordable, but, already, you're starting with a higher ticket price at at that point. So I did have to weigh my options, although the scholarship helped quite a bit. But one of the things that I was very, very adamant about was that the school that I picked had to be keenly invested in public service. And University of Detroit Mercy is a Jesuit school, and the Jesuit tradition is very much invested in public service. And the public sector law, they have a variety of clinics that are open to the public, and I was able to take advantage of a fellowship to work at a nonprofit over the summer where I would not have normally gotten paid, and I personally would not have been able to take that hit to do an unpaid internship, but they had a program where they paid people to go do these, I guess, it's externship at that point. And I got paid for it despite the the nonprofit not being able to pay me, but they worked out these fellowships, that they fundraise for, and this was really part of their ethos. Dr. Kim Saks [00:05:59]: So a big part of what drew me was that they focused on these opportunities that were really grounded in public service. And so that for me was kind of a turning point in my decision making. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:11]: Now you went to law school, you finished law school, and you also decided after working for a number of years to continue your education, and not everybody will do that. I I've worked with a number of students that go through law school and know what they go through in law school to know that for some students, that's enough. But for you, you made a decision that you wanted to continue on into a PhD program in political science. Talk to me about that. What made you decide that it was time to go back to school after working for a number of years with your law degree? Dr. Kim Saks [00:06:51]: So I think my mother lives in perpetual fear that I'm gonna go back to school again even now. Another room, another degree, but I don't I don't plan on it anytime soon. But I practice for a while, and I love the law. I really do. I I teach classes on the law. My legal education is very much being used in what I do on a day to day basis. I practice for a while in a private firm. I did not like the act of billing my time. Dr. Kim Saks [00:07:17]: That is not something that I am very good at. It's not necessarily time management. It's literally keeping track of what I've done. It just didn't suit me very well. So I went to work in house at Wayne State in their Office of Equal Opportunity, and I went from a very high pressure environment to a fairly, for me, low pressure environment. And I started getting a little antsy. And I knew that I had always wanted to teach, and I thought that would just be down the road, like, as a kind of one off adjunct experience. But I said, you know, I'm here now. Dr. Kim Saks [00:07:52]: I can take classes for free up to a certain level per semester or per year. Why don't I test this out and see how it goes? And if I end up stopping out at a master's, so be it. You know? So I started doing it, and I absolutely loved it. And because I had the JD at the time, I was still able to adjunct elsewhere because that's a terminal degree, and so I could be hired out elsewhere and teach. And I absolutely fell in love with teaching. And I knew at that point that this was the path that I wanted to go down. I also subsequently fell in love with research too, and really love the idea of being able to explore questions using data and using experiments and things of that nature in ways that you don't get to do until you're at that level and being able to direct your own research. And so I really enjoyed it. Dr. Kim Saks [00:08:47]: And and one of my favorite things about what I do now is trying to bring those experiences to my students, whether they're master students or undergraduate students, to get them involved in that process so that they understand what research is like and what each step of the process might look like. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:04]: Now in every transition that you go through, whether it be from undergraduate to law school or undergraduate to another type of graduate degree, whatever it may be, there are transitions that you go through. And from one level of education to the next level of education is very different than one another. Going from bachelor's to law school is a completely different type of learning. Going from law school to a PhD, Different type of learning. And there's different expectations from your faculty, and there's different expectations from what you are hoping to take out of those experiences and that and the end goals as well. Now you were successful in going through law school, getting your doctorate degree, continuing on. As you think back to those transitions that you went through, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school experiences? Dr. Kim Saks [00:10:03]: So the first thing I will say is make sure you have a support system around you. The same could be said of life in general, but when you're going to take on these new endeavors, make sure others are on board with what they're gonna need to do to support you. And that just means having a conversation about what things are gonna look like moving forward. Because whether it's friends or family, you might not be able to do certain things that you were able to do before as frequently, or you might need their help in something. Especially if you have kids or other responsibilities, you might need people to step in. And so having those conversations and revisiting those conversations, not just thinking you can have them, you know, a week before school starts and then that's it, you're good for the rest of your time in whatever program you're in, kind of making it a point to check-in on those conversations is really good. I will also say every transition I have ever made like this, a big transition, I have always had that moment of, I jump in and I get ready, and then I'm like, oh my god. What did I just do? What did I just get myself in to? I have a little bit of a freak out moment. Dr. Kim Saks [00:11:09]: And I tell all of my MPA students, this especially, because they're gonna have a moment when they're like, what did I get myself into? And I tell them, I'll come find me because we'll walk through it together. We'll sit through it. We'll figure out, you know, if there's a real issue or if you're just kind of having a culture shock because a lot of times, that's what it is. It's a culture shock. I distinctly remember having one when I started law school. I had one during my law school orientation, and then I had one when I went to grad school. And I remember, my first class, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to understand the statistics right away that were in this one article. And I thought, oh my god. Dr. Kim Saks [00:11:45]: Am I going to have to know this right off the bat? Because I don't. And I just was like, I must be the dumbest person in this room. And, of course, I wasn't. It was just I hadn't taken the same classes that these other people had taken yet, but I had to put that into perspective. And sometimes you need to have those perspective moments where you're like, okay. It's just me kind of getting my grounding. I need to take a breath. I need to really see my way through this because most of the time, it's just the culture shock of getting into a new thing. Dr. Kim Saks [00:12:15]: And with my students, a lot of times, we'll sit down in that 1st semester, in that 1st year, and by the time they've graduated, they're like, I you told me I was gonna have that moment. I had it. I got over it. And then I went on and it became like secondhand to me, and it was smooth sailing from there out. And most of the time, it's that culture shock moment where you're like, how am I going to do all of this? I hate the metaphor so much, but it is like learning to ride a bike because you do learn to put it and fit it into your life in a different way. Your life will change just the way you live your life, your daily mechanics of things, because you have to fit things in in a different way. And that's gonna look different from your undergrad to your grad, or for me, even from law school to grad school, when I fit in my reading and my writing time was completely different, especially once I had kids in grad school. So, you know, having to figure out those quiet times was completely different post kids. Dr. Kim Saks [00:13:11]: So you have to kind of figure out how it fits into your life, and then you'll kind of calm down a bit and focus on the work and not so much how it works in your life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:20]: You know, those are great points because I think you're completely right. You do change as you go through graduate school. And I love the point that you made in regard to checking back in with your support system because many times, your support system has no clue what you're going through, and they don't know how to support you. So if you don't reach out to them and let them know what you're going through and let them know what kind of support that you need, they're not going to be able to give it to you. So it is so important, as doctor Sacks just said, to have conversations upfront about what you anticipate, but also let people understand the reality of the situation once you get into your graduate program and you start to see what that reality is, whether it's hitting that wall right at the law school orientation where you're looking at stats, and you're saying, I have no clue what I'm getting myself into, versus getting into those first couple classes where you might be called on, and you're having to stand up, and and you're having to be an expert in your own right about what you've just read. Unless the people around you, the support people, have gone through the same type of degree, they're not going to understand it. And even if they went through it, it's not the same situation. It may not be the same school, and it's definitely probably not the same professors. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:48]: So that meaning being said, keep the conversation going. Don't ice people out. Let people back in. Let people know what you're going through. They're going to appreciate it, and you're gonna appreciate it in the end. Doctor. Sacks, as you mentioned, you're a professor now at the University of Michigan Flint, and you work with students not only in the master of public administration program, but you're working with undergraduate students too. And I guess as you look back at your own experiences, but also as you're working with graduate students or students that are looking at possibly going to graduate school in the future, what are some tips that you might...
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Finding Support and Success in Grad School with Michelle Gordon-Releford
01/27/2025
Finding Support and Success in Grad School with Michelle Gordon-Releford
Graduate school is a unique journey that demands both resilience and strategic planning. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School" podcast, shared her personal experiences and insights on how to navigate the complexities of graduate education successfully. As a double master's degree holder from the University of Michigan Flint, Michelle’s journey offers invaluable lessons for prospective and current graduate students alike. The Decision to Pursue Graduate Education Michelle’s decision to pursue graduate education was influenced by a promise to a sorority sister who emphasized the importance of advanced degrees for career prospects. Initially uncertain about pursuing further education, Michelle finally decided that obtaining a graduate degree was the next logical step. This decision demonstrates the importance of mentorship and peer advice in shaping academic and career paths. Choosing the Right Program and Institution For Michelle, choosing the University of Michigan Flint was driven by practical considerations and the availability of strong support systems. She highlighted the importance of familial and community support while pursuing higher education. When selecting a graduate program, Michelle emphasized the need to research various programs and consider how they align with your career goals. Her pivot from psychology to health science education was motivated by her passion for community involvement and making tangible impacts. Transitioning to Graduate School Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school poses unique challenges. Michelle stressed the importance of finding a "graduate school family" to help navigate these hurdles. Building a support system among your peers can provide both emotional and academic support. She recounted her own experiences of juggling graduate studies while managing her husband's cancer treatment, emphasizing the invaluable role her classmates and professors played in her success. Building Relationships One of the critical pieces of advice Michelle offered was to cultivate strong relationships with faculty members and peers. These relationships not only provide immediate support but can also turn into professional networks that benefit you long after graduation. Faculty members can become mentors and advisors, offering guidance and opportunities that you might not otherwise encounter. Applying Graduate Education in the Professional World Michelle’s diverse career experiences—as a community outreach manager and in other roles—showcase how a graduate degree can be applied in various professional contexts. Courses and experiences in her graduate program heightened her awareness about community disparities and prepared her to address these issues effectively. Her degree gave her the skills to conduct meaningful community engagement and to be an advocate for equity. Tips for Prospective Graduate Students Michelle concluded with actionable tips for prospective graduate students. She emphasized the importance of utilizing campus resources, particularly building a relationship with the library staff. Michelle also stressed the significance of maintaining open communication with family, friends, and professors. Their support can help alleviate some of the pressures of graduate school. Michelle Gordon-Releford’s journey underscores the multifaceted nature of graduate education. It involves not just academic efforts but also emotional resilience and strong support systems. Her insights provide a roadmap for anyone contemplating or currently on the path to obtaining a graduate degree. By focusing on relationships, leveraging resources, and staying committed to your goals, you, too, can successfully navigate the challenges of graduate school. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, this show is here to help you on this journey that you're on. I call it a journey because it is a journey. You could be at the very beginning where you're just starting to think about, maybe I want to do this grad school thing. Or you might be a little bit further along where you've applied and you're waiting for that answer. Or you applied and you found out that you were accepted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:44]: Congratulations. No matter where you are, whether you're currently in a program, you're preparing for a program, or you're just starting to think about it, the show is here to give you some some tips, some hints, some tools for your toolbox to help you to find success in that journey. And there are things that you can do right away to be able to start thinking about that. It's just to start to prepare for that and to put things in place that will help you along the way to find and maintain that success as you go along. And that's why this show is here. Every week I love being able to bring you different people, different guests with different experiences that come from different walks of life that have gone through this process themselves, and they can share with you some of the things that they've learned along the way that have helped them to find success. Today, we got another great guest. Michelle Gordon Relleford is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: And Michelle did her undergraduate work at Wright State University, but then decided to go and get a master's degree from the University of Michigan Flint, a master of health education, and also ended up getting a master's degree in health services, allied health, health sciences, and ended up getting both of these along the way. So we're gonna talk about that experience, the journey that she went on and what she learned along the way. So I'm really excited to have her here. Michelle, thanks so much for being here today. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:02:15]: Oh, no problem. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: Well, you know, it's my pleasure having you here today. I'm really excited to be able to talk with you about this experience that you went through. So I want to go back in time. I want to turn the clock back. I know I mentioned to you that you I mentioned that you did your undergraduate work at Wright State University. You got a bachelor's degree in psychology. And then at some point, probably during that undergraduate time, you decided to your for yourself that you wanted to continue your education, and you wanted to go on to get that master's degree that I was mentioning. Talk to me about bring me back to that point in time and talk to me about what was going through your head that made you decide that getting a graduate degree was the next right step. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:03:03]: Okay. Well, it's actually a funny story, probably not even believable. At Wright State, I had a sorority sister who was in the psychology program, and she's like, are you gonna go get your PsyD? And I was like, no. I think I'm done. And she said, you're not gonna be able to get a job without this graduate degree. Promise me that you will get a graduate degree. And I would I didn't say anything. She said promise. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:03:25]: And I said, okay. I promise. So people who know me is they know that I never break a promise to someone else. I will break them to myself, but I will never break them to someone else. So she broke me in, and she was right. I she knew me better at the time than I knew myself. And so I ended up coming back to Flint to get that degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:46]: So talk to me about that decision process because you did end up deciding to come to the University of Michigan Flint to get that degree and to be able to and there's lots of different places out there. I know you're originally from here in Flint, so maybe that was one of the big factors. But but talk to me about what was going through your head as you were looking at different graduate programs that made you decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the ultimate right place for you for this degree itself? Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:04:16]: Okay. So Flint, my mother was still there. So my support was right there and the opportunity to come back and be around her more often. My future husband was there, so it was conversations with him and his mother is there. So I had the strong support system outside of the University of Michigan Flint that was saying you could come back and we'll help you a lot. And so that that was major for me. Not to mention that Flint was my home. I already knew what I'd be getting back into. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:04:47]: Knew a couple of people there who were gonna be at the U of M Flint, getting their degrees alongside me. So that was big for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:54]: And you did your undergraduate work in psychology and then decided to apply for a master's in health science education. So talk to me about that because you like you said, your sorority sister asked you about a PsyD. A PsyD is very different than going from a bachelor's in psychology to health science education. So talk to me about what made you decide that that was the right program for you. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:05:20]: Okay. Well, researched lots of programs and what those degrees would mean for me. And it all boiled down to I like community involvement. I like to feel like I'm giving back, and I also like to see what happens when I give back. So to get a degree in health science that that was it if I could do I could do the grant work. I can write the programs. I could talk to people in communities and find out what they needed or they wanted or how they felt about things. And then have those letters to validate that I can do it was amazing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:58]: So anytime that you go into a graduate program, there is a transition. You went from transitioning from being at a small institution in Ohio into moving back to Michigan. You transitioned into from undergraduate to a graduate degree in an area that was different than your undergraduate degree. So every like I said, every person goes through transitions and a transition to be able to be able to be successful. So talk to me about what did you have to do for yourself to be able to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school, and what did you have to do to maintain your success throughout the entire graduate school experience? Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:06:40]: For both of those, I would say I had to find my graduate school family. You know? In undergrad, you find those friends that you're gonna have forever, and I did. But I also had to find them in grad school. Those are the people that are when you are up at 1 in the morning and you're studying, they're gonna say you got this. Or go to bed if that's the case. They're gonna say, okay. Well, I'll take the notes. You get some rest because you did blah blah blah, or I'll help out with family. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:07:07]: I found my family in grad school to help support me. And there's a lot I don't know how much time we have, but there's a lot that goes into what I'm saying about that. Because during grad school, we found out my husband had cancer. And so even my professors became a lot of family, and they would say, well, attendance is not your priority, but you make sure you have all the work done. So even before COVID, sometimes I was working remotely and checking in with my professor because I had to get my husband to chemo or had to get him to his radiation. And my professor would be, yep. That's more important because I still got an a out of the class, and it's not because they gave me a grade. I worked for it, but they were supportive. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:07:54]: And they said, okay. If there's something you don't understand, I'll make some extra hours for you to talk about it. Or doctor Parker would always say, and how does that make you feel? So I had support system in my family right there in grad school. And without them, I honestly could say that I never would have been able to achieve what I achieved. And not to mention my husband was saying, oh, no. You're gonna finish because I'm not gonna be the reason you missed out on this great opportunity. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:22]: You know, it's so important to be able to find that family. And that's one thing that's kind of unique about graduate school is the fact that every person that's in that program with you is interested in the same thing. They're there for different reasons, potentially, But they all have a passion for that. Or they should have a passion for that if they're going to be spending the time, money, and effort to be able to go into that program itself. So being able to connect and to meet with and to be able to allow for yourself the ability to connect with others is going to help you as a student. And when I say connect with others, I am really referring to the fact that you wanna be able to connect with students, but also with faculty and build those strong relationships just like you hopefully were able to build strong relationships in your undergraduate experience as well. Because these people are people that you will draw from, work with, be able to connect back with, and that you can network with, and they will open up their doors down in the future. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:09:26]: Oh, yeah. It was wonderful. And sometimes I was so exhausted. It'd be the start of a new class. And, basically, we were moving in cohorts. And I'd look around, and they say, Michelle, you're in the masters of health science education program and blah blah blah. And the the professor would look at, oh, I've never seen it. I was like, yep. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:09:43]: This is my support group. They help me. It's the little things might slip by me because I'm my mind is on autopilot or something because I have a lot going on. But those are the things they would do, and it did mean a lot. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:56]: Now you've been out of your graduate degree for a number of years now and been working. And I know right now you're working for a think tank as a community outreach manager, but you've also done other things in your career too. So talk to me about how do you find that what you learned in your graduate degree prepared you for the work that you have done and the work that you are doing on a day to day basis? Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:10:19]: You're right. I've done a lot of things, but I'd say 90% of it was talking to community youth in the community or teaching them something. How did my degree help me prepare for that? The first thing that comes to mind is we did a Flint tour of grocery stores in different communities, and it was to highlight the differences of what's happening in one community that doesn't have as much money as another community. And I grew up in Flint, and we didn't grow up with the most money. But it brought things to light that, wow, if I go down the street and around the corner, the grocery store is better. Why is it that their grocery store gets to be different from my grocery store? And these were things that my degree highlighted, and it also said that, okay. So now what are you gonna do to make a difference? How are you gonna work with communities and populations to even the playing field? Well, just can't even them, but give them what they need at the time that they need it. So the degree I got from U of M Flint taught me a lot about equity, and I use it often. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:11:21]: It taught me a lot about how different people do different things and how, sometimes the person at the the president at the top of the university might not understand what's happening right at the level of the people in the community. And sometimes you have to be a voice. So my degree, it did a lot because it was a hands on experience. It was working with other students coming from different backgrounds. It still helps me to this day because even now I go out into communities and I talk to political leaders. I talk to nonprofit organizations, non governmental organizations, and that degree helped me with a lot of that. Because to be honest, I'm an introvert. So doing that without those tools would stress me out even more than, going in with what I have. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:12:08]: I know I can do the things that I do, and I know that I'm good at it. And it's because I walked through getting that degree, and it it arms me with what I need to know. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:18]: Now as you think about other individuals, people that are thinking about graduate school, whether it be in an area of public health to an area like physical therapy or business or whatever it might be. And you think back to the experiences that you had as a graduate student. What are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:12:40]: I would say, get to know the librarian. First name faces. I almost wanna say live there. Develop a relationship with your professors that you will often well, I found because it took me a long time to get out of that fear that they're different sitting on Mount Olympus, and I'm sitting down here in Athens or something. So get to know them and you realize it's common ground. There's still people and you might have differences of opinion, but they are human. And that will help you get the support you need. Talk to your family. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:13:13]: Oh my goodness. Yes. Talk to your family. You would find you probably have more support than what you think you did. Parents of teenagers, talk to those teenagers that this is something you wanna do. You'd be surprised at how many more times they'll do the dishes. So talk to your spouse because then you get those great oh, you don't have to cook darling or I'll cook darling nights and or pieces magically showing up at the door because you have a paper coming up. So communicate with your support system, with your team because they have your back. Michelle Gordon-Releford [00:13:44]: And I couldn't have did it without my tribe or my team or whatever you wanna call them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:48]: Well, Michelle, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey today. Thank you for being willing to offer these resources in some of the things that you learned along the way, and I truly wish you all the best. Thank you. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:31]: I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at .
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From Janitor to Auditor: Ryan Thomas's Path through Education and Career
01/20/2025
From Janitor to Auditor: Ryan Thomas's Path through Education and Career
In the latest episode of Victors in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with , an accomplished auditor with the National Guard and dual degree holder from the University of Michigan, Flint. Ryan's journey is a testament to the power of networking, mentorship, and balancing academics with career responsibilities. This blog post delves into the key aspects of their conversation and the valuable lessons Ryan’s experience offers to anyone navigating the complexities of educational and professional advancement. The Power of Networking Ryan emphasizes that networking was pivotal in his career success. After completing his undergraduate degree, Ryan faced immense challenges securing employment despite having a strong GPA. Recognizing the limitations of traditional job applications, he turned to networking. Ryan’s connection with staff accountants during his time as a janitor at the VA in Battle Creek, Michigan, eventually led to an interview and paved the path for his first role in accounting. Ryan underscores the importance of building relationships and seeking help when needed. He believes that people are often willing to assist if you reach out. This mindset not only opened doors but also provided Ryan with the support he needed to navigate his career path. Mentorship and Professional Development Mentorship played a crucial role in Ryan’s journey. He advises finding mentors who have achieved goals similar to yours and learning from their experiences. Mentors can offer invaluable guidance on managing conflicts and challenges in one’s career. Ryan’s educational path was significantly influenced by such guidance, leading him to switch from finance to accounting based on a mentor's advice. Beyond accounting courses, Ryan highlights the significance of diverse coursework in understanding organizational culture and improving core competencies. His education in organizational behavior has taught him the necessity of aligning personal values with the company’s mission, a lesson that has been instrumental in his professional growth. The Transition to Graduate School Ryan's transition from undergraduate to graduate studies required significant lifestyle adjustments. Graduate coursework demanded more intensive time commitments, reducing social activities and pushing Ryan to dedicate his evenings to studying. The dual degree program—MBA and MS in Accounting—offered both flexibility and valuable in-person interactions every six weeks, which facilitated deeper learning and networking opportunities. Balancing Work and Life Balancing work responsibilities with academic commitments was a challenge Ryan had to navigate adeptly. To manage his increased workload, he developed effective strategies like studying immediately after work or utilizing the library to minimize distractions. He also found solace in nature, meditation, yoga, and exercise to manage stress and maintain balance. Encouragement and Community Support Encouragement from counselors and staff at the University of Michigan, Flint’s School of Management played a vital role in Ryan's decision to pursue further education. Post-graduation, his church community provided spiritual support, especially during the times he faced setbacks, reinforcing the importance of a strong support system. Ryan Thomas's journey highlights the immense value of networking, seeking mentorship, and maintaining a balanced life while pursuing higher education and career goals. His experience is a beacon of inspiration for anyone striving to merge academic pursuits with professional aspirations. Tune into this insightful episode of "Dads with Daughters" to delve deeper into Ryan’s story and gather invaluable lessons for your own journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Louis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week I love being able to be on this journey with you. I know I say that every week, but it is true. I love being able to talk with you, to walk with you, to work with you as you're going through this process. No matter where you're going, what you're doing, it is a process. It is a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:38]: And every person has to walk this journey by themselves, but you don't have to walk alone. And that's what's so important is that there are so many people around you that have gone through this process for themselves, that have learned things along the way, and they've been able to find success. Now, sometimes they may have stumbled, but they picked themselves up and kept going. And this show is here to be able to not only show you that, but to give you some hints, some tips, some tools for your own toolbox to help you to be able to find success in the journey that you currently are on or that you're currently going to be on. So that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that have gone through this process for themselves to be able to share that journey that they went through with you so that you can learn from them. Today, we got another great guest with us today. Ryan Thomas is with us. And Ryan is an auditor with the National Guard. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:41]: And he is based down south in South Carolina and has been working as an auditor for some time. But he did his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint and then went on and got a dual degree. And we're gonna talk about what that means. He got a dual graduate degree of both an MBA and a master of science in accounting. So we're gonna be talking about that journey and the journey to getting those 2 graduate degrees at the University of Michigan Flint as well. And I'm really excited to have him here today. Ryan, thanks so much for being here. Ryan Thomas [00:02:13]: I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: Yeah. It's my pleasure having you here today. I love being able to talk to different people and learn about the journeys that they went on. Now I mentioned that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, and I love starting these conversations turning the clock back in time. So I want to go back a couple years. I want to go back to the, to that point in time back in your undergraduate days where you probably had that inkling, that inkling in your mind that you wanted to continue your education. Talk to me about that. And what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Ryan Thomas [00:02:48]: Sure. I had just got honorably discharged out the, military and wanted to kind of find my way out in the workforce. And I figured that one of the best ways that I could build value and credibility was to go get my degree. My mom had went to the University of Michigan Flint, and she just loved it. She used to take me up there when when I was a child, and she would take me to some of her classes. And so, I was very familiar with the campus and decided to go ahead and go into accounting. It was very interesting that I used to go to the rec center as a child, and so I've always had this nostalgic feeling about the the University of Michigan and the Wolverines. So I was very proud to be on the campus and to be able to be in accounting program. Ryan Thomas [00:03:32]: And I actually began my first major in finance, and I was getting ready to go across the stage. And one of the professors has set me up with a mock interview with the director over international sales at Dow Chemical. And I sat down with them, and we talked about possibilities. And one of the things that he had mentioned to me, he was like, there's a lot of people that's in finance. You don't necessarily have to have a degree to actually work in finance. And he was like, you know, but there's a lot of opportunities in accounting. And, like, there's comptrollers, there's people that do consulting. And I remember looking at my credits and only needed, like, about 4 more classes, so I decided to go back for another year and get my degree in accounting. Ryan Thomas [00:04:20]: And when I finished up, I had a very difficult time to find an employment. What I learned is that a lot of the employers require experience in accounting. So although I have my degree, I had a difficult time transitioning into some of the prominent accounting firms like Robert Half or Ernst and Young. And so I had a difficult time trying to get in because I just had my GPA, which is pretty good, and I have my degree. So I just started to do some volunteer work, and that's how I began to get my experience. And so I started volunteering my services. And one of the things that I thought was I might as well, while I'm just starting out and finding my way and building experiences, I might as well continue to go to school. So I ended up deciding to go into the graduate program. Ryan Thomas [00:05:06]: And there was a lot of influence from the counselors and from the staff members at the School of Management. And those relationships with my professors and with that staff really encouraged me to, wanna continue school there. They were always very understanding. I could approach to them even when I had, life issues coming outside the classroom. They were very approachable, and I enjoyed the way they taught. And so, I ended up going through the dual program at the University of Michigan Flint because I began finding some opportunities in accounting as I was going to school. Found my first opportunity at the VA in Battle Creek, Michigan, and I was working there as a staff accountant. And and and believe it or not, before I became a staff accountant, I had to get a job as a janitor at the VA. Ryan Thomas [00:05:57]: And what happened was there were individuals in the, the department that had called out. I'm sorry. There was a there was somebody that was assigned to the, to the accounting building. And the person that called out and everyone was scared to actually go over there and clean because they were very meticulous. They were very, you know, they were quick to to call in if you made a mistake. And so I ended up volunteering, going over there and cleaning, and started networking. I had conversations with the staff accountants there. And, lo and behold, one of them who I established a relationship with, it told me about interviews that was occurring within the department, and I ended up going out for it. Ryan Thomas [00:06:37]: And I went to the interview, did really well, and I ended up coming back to work the next day as a janitor. And the chief of accounting had came up to me, and she was like her name was Nancy. And Nancy came up to me while I was in my janitor closet, and she was like, Ryan, you did a great job. She was like, but, we decided to go with somebody else. And I was like, look, and I was like, okay. And I was just grateful. I was just, you know, I I thought that I was I was grateful to have a job at the time. I know how tough it was trying to transition. Ryan Thomas [00:07:07]: I went a long period of time without work being a student and trying to get my foot in the door, not having that much experience even though I had my degree. And so I was just like, you know, that's okay. There'd be another opportunity. And then, you know, I went on to work and continued on. And I remember I ended up going to church that Sunday, and I had told my pastor that I was going for the interview for the accounting position. And he brought me up in front of the church. There's big old spotlight on me, and he was like, yeah. Yeah. Ryan Thomas [00:07:35]: Ryan, come up here. And I I came up there, and I just looked at him and I started shaking my head like, no. No. I I didn't I didn't get the job. I mean, thank God. He looked at me and he said, you didn't get the job yet. And he called up the elders and they prayed over me. And I was just like, okay. Ryan Thomas [00:07:52]: And so I received prayer. And that Monday, the next day, I got a phone call from HR saying that the individual who had initially accepted the position declined the position because they were using that job as leverage to receive a promotion at the job that they had there. And they offered me the position, and so I started working at the VA. And I continued to work and go through the graduate dual program because it allowed space for me to work full time and be able to do classes part time online. And then every 6 weeks, I believe it was, we would, you know, spend a a weekend and face to face with our professors and be able to ask deep down questions that that that might have been puzzling us to some of the work that we were doing. And so the the program really, really kinda fit my schedule and my lifestyle, my my, quality of life of what was going on at the time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:50]: That's quite the journey. I really appreciate you sharing that. And it kind of answers my next question, which is typically I I would ask you why U of M Flint, but you kind of answered that. And, you know, sometimes things happen in your life and they happen for a reason. And it sounds like that kind of happened for you, an opportunity, you know, and that opportunity led to further opportunities. And I guess talk to me a little bit about, you decided to do a dual degree, where you had an opportunity to be able to get 2 different degrees. And for those of you that if you don't know what a dual degree is, a dual degree is where you get 2 different graduate degrees, but the graduate degrees have been created in such a way, or they have been linked in such a way to allow you to be able to have some courses that overlap. So in this situation, Ryan was working on an MBA degree, but he also was working on an MS in accounting. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:47]: And the MBA had a concentration in accounting and those courses that were in the concentration and courses in the MS in accounting overlapped. You still have to get 2 degrees. You still have to do those additional credits, but you are cutting that down. You're saving time and money on 2 different degrees. So talk to me about why you chose to do a dual degree versus just focusing on 1 and getting 1 and getting done. Instead, you decided to do both degrees and to come out at the end with 2 different degrees. Ryan Thomas [00:10:23]: Yeah. So when I had started the, School of Management and I I started the graduate program, they were just there was a lot of marketing and and a lot of exposure, and and they were really promoting the dual program at that time and offering, like you had mentioned previously, the opportunity to get 2 degrees with with, degrees that with classes that overlap. And the way I viewed it is, I wasn't sure exactly, like, what area within accounting I really wanted to focus on, and so I wanted to have a broader view and and get exposure to the different classes that were available so that I could pinpoint and narrow my search as far as where exactly I wanted to end up at. So I've done budget analyst work. I've done general ledger accounting work, and then I've also done auditing. And through that class, I've I, you know, I I really took on took a liking to the auditing part, the the auditing courses within accounting. So, what it basically I was wanting to do was really build some credibility and build value in myself. And I figured that with 2 master degrees from the University of Michigan Flint and our degree state University of Michigan, like, I definitely wanted to be able to provide myself with as many opportunities out there. Ryan Thomas [00:11:40]: And I found that as I've progressed in my career, that's one of the things that kinda separated me from a lot of other candidates is, having the 2 degrees, the 2 master degrees, and being able to do it within a a a short time frame. Because a lot of people will go out and get their master's degree and then they find that, hey, maybe I wanna change fields or I wanna go into a different area and they'll go back out and they'll get another master's degree, where that may takes upward towards like 6 years. I was able to do it within a shorter time frame. And now I did take some time off in between, you know, when I got that first master's degree and then getting the second thing, but that was very convenient within the dual program. Like even though I took like a semester off, I was still able to continue to work towards that second master's degree to continue to build value and also knowledge and expertise within accounting. So it was not just convenient for me from a practical standpoint, financially, time wise, which 2 things that I value very much, but it was also convenient in the sense that as I kinda started from the bottom floor to, you know, move up the ladder, that the 2 degrees, the 2 master degrees was something that kinda stood out and allowed me to get into some prominent places, you know, as far as working. I worked at one of the biggest accounting agencies in the world in in, DFAS, the Defense Finance and Accounting Center. And then also, had a chance to work with the Army Audit Agency, which is one of the premier auditing agencies with the government as well. Ryan Thomas [00:13:16]: And so, I got I got exposure to other people with experience, and it all it did was just help propel me in my career. So the dual program was awesome as far as the professors and the way they had it set up. And you essentially are going to class that entire weekend, and the program has lunch set up for you to have food, catered. And so, like, you're going to school half of the day on Friday, and then you go out, take lunch, you get a chance to network and mingle with your, fellow classmates who you mainly just seen online. It gives you a time to gather and see face to face for for individuals who you've done group projects with. So it's always good to put a face with a name, but it makes it much more personable. It, definitely makes you own your product a little bit more when you're able to kinda personalize it. So, in that aspect, I I loved it. Ryan Thomas [00:14:08]: And then we would get down to the meat and bones of, like, some of the challenging portions within our work and our projects. And then once we got that information, we would be able to go back online and work through some of the class materials, some of the the text and some of the, the quizzes and a test that they have prior to finishing up the courses or whatnot. But essentially, the projects, which were to me the more challenging portions of the class within the graduate program, it was great to be able to have that flexibility of of going online, but then being able to meet together and meet with people for those projects to get on the same page. Communication is a lot more clear. So, it's a little bit more transparent also to get on the same page with, some of the responsibilities, divvying out the work, whatnot. And then the food was great. The food was actually excellent. And then it also gives us the time to connect with the staff members, counselors, and people in the, the School of Management at that time because it was all I'm not sure if it's still in Radisson across the street from the campus or whatnot, but that's where we used to go on when I was going through the program. Ryan Thomas [00:15:15]: So it was beneficial on all different levels from that aspect. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]: Now every student, when they go from one degree to the next, goes through some type of transition. And when you go from high school to undergrad, you had a transition. And for you, you also had some military service in...
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From Manufacturing to MBA: Jerome Kirkland's Educational Journey
01/13/2025
From Manufacturing to MBA: Jerome Kirkland's Educational Journey
Graduate school is an ambitious trek that requires not only academic prowess but also exceptional determination and patience. Recently, I had the pleasure of speaking with , a site manager at BASF and a graduate of the University of Michigan Flint, who shared his invaluable experiences and insights about his journey through graduate school. Our conversation highlighted key aspects of his academic and professional journey, which can serve as a beacon for anyone contemplating a similar path. The Decision to Pursue Graduate Education A Call to Higher Education Jerome's story is a testament to the power of mentorship and professional guidance. He reminisced about his initial decision to pursue a master's degree, influenced heavily by his manager, who was a fervent advocate for education. "One of the days he came to me and he said, hey, Jerome, you know, we offer tuition reimbursement. Maybe you should look into that," Jerome recalled. This gentle nudge from his manager played a pivotal role in his decision to enroll in an MBA program at the University of Michigan Flint. Choosing the Right Program When considering MBA programs, Jerome's choice to stick with the University of Michigan Flint was driven by a combination of familiarity, comfort, and strong family ties. Despite living closer to the Ann Arbor campus, the Flint campus offered him the proximity to family and friends, making his academic journey a holistic experience. "I still have family there. At that time, I was living in Belleville, Michigan... but it gave me an opportunity to, you know, just come home, visit family and friends, and still have an opportunity to get a good education," he shared. The Graduate School Transition Re-Engaging with Academia Transitioning back into academic life after establishing oneself in the workforce can be challenging. Jerome emphasized the importance of time management, patience, and leveraging one's foundational education to navigate the graduate school terrain successfully. "Graduate school is not for the faint of heart... You really have to dedicate time, you have to dedicate patience," Jerome advised, highlighting the need for a disciplined approach. Overcoming Challenges Every academic journey comes with its unique set of challenges. For Jerome, the global COVID-19 pandemic became a backdrop for his graduate studies, presenting both difficulties and opportunities. Jerome used the increased focus and decreased distractions during the pandemic to his advantage. "I had a little bit more time to really just push myself towards getting that degree in graduate school." Key Learnings and Applications Collaboration and Continuous Learning One of Jerome's major takeaways from his MBA program was the importance of collaboration. "If you're the smartest person in the room... you need to find another room," he said. This mindset has been instrumental in his professional life, where he continuously seeks diverse perspectives and teamwork to address complex challenges. Practical Applications Jerome’s experiences in graduate school, from financial analysis to operations management, have had a direct impact on his day-to-day job as a plant manager. He emphasized that the real-world case studies and hands-on learning in his MBA program have made his professional responsibilities more comprehensible and manageable. Advice for Aspiring Graduate Students Follow Your Passion Jerome’s most crucial piece of advice for prospective graduate students is to pursue further education only if they are genuinely passionate about it. "You have to really say that this is what I want. You can't do it for somebody else," Jerome stressed. His journey underscores the importance of intrinsic motivation and personal commitment in achieving success. In conclusion, Jerome Kirkland’s journey through graduate school offers a wealth of insights for anyone considering this path. His experience underscores the importance of mentorship, the right academic environment, disciplined time management, and the drive to overcome challenges. As Jerome aptly puts it, continuous learning and collaboration are keys to long-term success in both academia and professional life. TRANSCRIPT Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, this week, as always, I'm here to walk with you, to help you, to work with you as you walk toward, walk through, and walk beyond graduate school. It's really exciting to be able to be in this journey alongside you, to help you along the way, and I want you to be successful. So that's why every week this podcast is here to be able to give you some tips, some tools, some things that you can take with you to help you on this journey that you're on. Every week I try to bring you different guests with different experiences that have been able to go to graduate school, have been able to go to graduate school, be able to be successful in going through graduate school, and can share that experience with you. Today, I've got a great I've got a great new guest with us today and I'm really excited to be able to have him here. Christopher Lewis [00:01:10]: Jerome Kirkland is with us today. And Jerome is a site manager at BASF, and he's been doing that for a number of years. But he did his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, and then went on and got his master's of business administration at the University of Michigan Flint as well. So I'm really excited to be able to talk with him and have him share some of his experiences with you. Jerome, thanks so much for being here today. Thank Jerome Kirkland [00:01:35]: you so much for having me, Doctor. Lewis. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to be able to talk to you. And I want to turn the clock back in time. I want to go all the way back to those days when you were on campus at the University of Michigan, Flint going through that bachelor of business administration degree in accounting and operations management. At some point during that time, you made a choice. You made a choice to continue your education. Bring me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head and what made you decide that graduate school was the right next step. Jerome Kirkland [00:02:05]: Well, if I go back to that time, I was working a lot in automotive. Being from the Flint area, you know, basically everything, manufacturing or any really good paying jobs at that time were in manufacturing. So I wanted to make sure that my education kinda took me to where I wanted to go. We all have aspirations when we're either getting ready to go to undergrad or grad school on where do we see our careers being. I know one of the things that I wanted from my career was to at least be at a plan manager, director level, or somewhere along that stratosphere, And I knew in order to do that, I will have to do the work leading up to that. And one of those things was making sure that I got my bachelor's in the end, pursued a master's degree so that I could really see how to really effectively run a business. Christopher Lewis [00:02:44]: I mentioned that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, and you probably could have gone to a lot of different places. You could have chosen to go to some other place for your master's degree, but you chose to go to the to the master's in business administration program at the University of Michigan Flint. Talk to me about what made you decide that the MBA was the right choice. And then secondly, as you were looking at MBA programs, what made you finally decide that U of M Flint was the place where you wanted to land? Jerome Kirkland [00:03:12]: Well, what made me really look at getting an MBA was I had a manager who really believed in, you know, education and and really doing those things to get yourself ahead in in organizations. And one of the days he came to me and he said, hey, Jerome, you know, we offer tuition reimbursement. And I said, really? He said, yeah. Maybe you should look into that. And, he said, we'll talk about it on our next call. So that was kind of the gentle push. I believe I need it. I believe that manager at the time, who was our global manufacturing director, seen something in me where he's seen that I could grow throughout our organization. Jerome Kirkland [00:03:45]: And he said, well, hey. You know, by the time we had the next call, I said, I looked into it, and one of the places that I think I really have a good fit is University of Michigan Flint. I still have family there. At that time, I was living in Belleville, Michigan, which was actually closer to the Ann Arbor campus, but it gave me an opportunity to, you know, just come home, visit family and friends, and still have an opportunity to get a good education. Christopher Lewis [00:04:06]: Now, anybody that goes through undergraduate work gets out into the workforce and then decides, Hey, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna go back and get some education. You gotta get back into the mindset. You gotta transition back into school. And there is a transition that you go through when you go from being an undergraduate student to being a graduate student. So talk to me about that transition and what you had to do to be able to not only find success as you entered into the graduate degree, But what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school experience? Jerome Kirkland [00:04:42]: I always tell people graduate school is not for the faint of heart. It's a lot of work that you have to put in there. So you really have to dedicate time, you have to dedicate patience, and you kinda have to deal with your foundational education. I I think it was really important that I got a good education in my undergrad, and it helped push me and make me successful throughout grad school. I think the one thing I can say about University of Michigan Flint is the professors really are there to help you. They're they're to push you also. So it's not like, you know, they're just giving degrees away. It's a lot of work that goes into it. Jerome Kirkland [00:05:11]: And once I realized the the time commitment that I would have to give to it, I I just kinda buckled down there and said, okay. This is what I'm gonna have to do to move forward. And then the second thing was just patience because, you know, with grad school, it's it's half the time of undergrad school. So you look at it as it's it's a it's a more accelerated push of yourself, and it and it really pushes you to, you know, different limits. And then you still have your day to day life going on, whether you're working or whether you're a parent or whether you're a spouse. So all of those things combined, it just you know, it it put me in a place where it pushed me to be the best version of myself. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]: Now going through graduate school is not always roses. It's there's definitely challenges along the way. Talk to me about some of those hills that you had to climb and what you had to do to be able to persevere, to be able to get to that that light at the end of the tunnel? Jerome Kirkland [00:06:03]: Well, I think in a lot of cases, when I was going through graduate school, and I'm just gonna speak for myself specifically, it was a really tough time because the environment outside of my life really changed. We had something that came through in 2020 called COVID 19, and that was the time that I was going through graduate school. So trying to navigate school, we're trying to navigate life, we're trying to navigate all these other challenges, I think gave me a different renewed focus because I had a little bit more time to really just push myself towards getting that that degree in graduate school. So I think if anything, I know that nobody can ever say COVID was a good time in life, but it was a good time for me to push myself to really focus because I didn't have as many distractions because life kinda changed on the outside. Christopher Lewis [00:06:47]: You definitely go through a lot of learning and a lot of growth as you go through graduate school yourself, yourself, and you learn a lot about yourself as well as you do similar to undergraduate work as well, but it's just in a little bit different way. As you think back to graduate school, what was some of the biggest moments for you that you learned about yourself that are still helping you today? Jerome Kirkland [00:07:11]: Well, one of the biggest moments was some of the, STEM classes that we have within there is is the I think it was financial analysis, and then it was another class that I had or operations management. It was some things that I hadn't been through in a long time. So it it really made me have to go back and try to remember how to work through some of those types of, problems. Even even some of the other classes when it came to marketing and some other things, a lot of times you get a bachelor's and you think, hey. I know what's going on. I know how to proceed in a class like this. But those moments like those were the ones that and then technology changed a little bit. When I went through school, you know, it was mostly Microsoft Office, a little bit of PowerPoint, a little bit of Excel, some things like that. Jerome Kirkland [00:07:51]: They were doing more access, and they were using other types of slideshows and some things like that that I hadn't been used to. So so a lot of those things, along with some of the younger talent that was going through the program with me, kinda help foster along some growth within myself. And then it also put me in a place where I could really take some of those case studies and apply them to my day to day being a plant manager in in a manufacturing facility. And a lot of those things, I was like, okay. Now it really makes sense why they present it the way they do. So I was just really overjoyed by a lot of the things that I learned, and those moments really taught me that I didn't know as much as I thought I knew. So I always like to use the term, the more I learn, the less I realize I know. And that was just one of those times where going through that program really taught me a lot. Christopher Lewis [00:08:33]: You definitely learned quite a bit. And as you have finished your degree, you finished that off and you've been out in the workforce for quite a few years. As you think back to your time going through not only the degree itself, but now that you've been out in the workforce for a number of years and working in industry, as you look back and and you think about what you learned in that process, how do you find that you use the things that you learned on a daily basis? Jerome Kirkland [00:09:01]: I think probably the biggest lesson I learned that I use on a daily basis is collaboration. If you're the smartest person in the room or the biggest person in the room, you probably need to find another room. Right? You need to fill it with different people who have different perspectives that can help you grow and help the organization grow throughout. So one of the things that I I've I've really learned is how do you collaborate? How do you work with people? How do you utilize other people's strengths to help your deficiencies? So those were the things that really stand out to me on what I really learned from the program. Christopher Lewis [00:09:29]: Now as you think about individuals that are thinking about going to graduate school, whether it be for the MBA or any graduate program, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every student? Jerome Kirkland [00:09:40]: I would say it's just like anything else. You only should do it if your heart is really into it. You have to really say that this is what I want. You can't do it for somebody else because you'll have those bad days or those days where you're writing that 20 page paper that you say, is this really worth it? You have to really wanna do it for yourself, your family, and you really have to have some time and some patience to be able to push through. Christopher Lewis [00:10:02]: Well, Jerome, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for your willingness to be able to talk back about the all these things that you've learned along the way, and I truly wish you all the best. Jerome Kirkland [00:10:15]: Alright. Thank you so much, doctor Lewis, for having me. Christopher Lewis [00:10:17]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at .
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Passion, Persistence, and Dendrimers: Dr. Donald Tomalia’s Lifelong Journey in Chemistry
01/06/2025
Passion, Persistence, and Dendrimers: Dr. Donald Tomalia’s Lifelong Journey in Chemistry
In the latest episode of Victors in Grad School, we had the privilege of delving into the remarkable journey of , a pioneering figure in the field of chemistry and an inspiring role model for many. Dr. Tomalia, now in his 80s and still actively contributing to the field, shared his insights on the development of new molecular architectures, his career journey, and the unwavering curiosity that has driven his success. Pioneering Dendrimer Research Dr. Donald Tomalia is widely acknowledged for his groundbreaking work on dendrimers - dendritic polymers with branching patterns inspired by natural structures like trees and neurons. Discovered at Dow Chemical Company in 1979, dendrimers have since become pivotal in various applications, such as targeted cancer therapies and vaccine delivery systems. In particular, their capability to deliver messenger RNA for vaccines represents a significant leap forward in medical science. Working alongside groups in the US and Europe, Dr. Tomalia continues to push the boundaries of chemistry. His work emphasizes the creation of new molecular structures, leading to discoveries with far-reaching implications for medicine, agriculture, and environmental science. The Role of Mentorship and Education Dr. Tomalia’s educational journey began at Flint Junior College, before moving on to the University of Michigan Flint where he found invaluable mentorship under the guidance of Professor Harry Blecker. The fundamental knowledge and support he received were instrumental in shaping his academic and professional pursuits. Despite financial constraints, scholarships and fellowships enabled him to pursue higher education and eventually attain a PhD from Michigan State University while working at Dow. He attributes his success not to luck, but to hard work and persistence. For Dr. Tomalia, mentors played a critical role in his journey. Figures like Dr. Harry Blecker and Professor Adi Makela provided the encouragement and guidance necessary to navigate the uncertainties of a scientific career. He advises graduate students to find mentors who can inspire confidence and fuel their curiosity, emphasizing that hard work and dedication are essential for achieving success. Balancing Professional and Personal Life Balancing a demanding career with personal responsibilities has been a recurring theme in Dr. Tomalia's story. He shares candidly about the challenges of maintaining this balance, yet his passion for chemistry and the continual evolution of his work have kept him engaged and excited throughout the years. Legacy and Future Directions Dr. Donald Tomalia’s contributions to the field of chemistry, particularly in dendrimer research, have laid a foundation for future innovations. As the CEO and owner of Nano Synthons LLC, and founder of companies like Dendritech and Dendritic Nanotechnologies, his work continues to inspire and drive progress in therapeutic delivery systems. This conversation underscores the dynamic interplay between curiosity, mentorship, and persistence. Dr. Tomalia's journey serves as a testament to the potential of scientific inquiry and the transformative power of education. As Dr. Christopher Lewis eloquently closed the episode, it's clear that Dr. Tomalia’s work will continue to influence and inspire future generations of chemists and researchers. For those seeking to follow in his footsteps, the University of Michigan Flint offers a robust platform to embark on their academic journey, with graduate programs tailored to provide comprehensive education and mentorship. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week, I love going on a journey with you. And it is a journey because you may be at the very forefront of starting to think about graduate school. But you came to listen today because you're thinking grad school in some aspect, whether you're at the very beginning and you're just starting to look at different schools or different programs to see what's out there and what might be a possibility, or maybe you've already applied or gotten accepted. You know, you're somewhere in this continuum. You could even be in graduate school looking for that light at the end of the tunnel where you know that you've got another year ahead of you, and you're just working through this process for yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]: Wherever you are, this podcast was set up to help you to find success in that journey that you're on. And that's why every week I love being able to talk to you, talk to you about this journey, but also to give you some tools for your toolbox to help you along the way. And we do that by bringing you different guests, different people that are able to tell you their story and able to share that journey that they went on so that you can learn from the things that went well, maybe things that didn't go well, and be able to take those things, internalize them, and find a path for yourself. Today, we've got another great guest with us today. Dr. Donald Tomalia is with us today, and Dr.Tomalia started his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, but then went on and got a PH d at Michigan State University. Both of those degrees were in chemistry. So we're gonna be talking about that journey that he was on. I'm really excited to talk to him and the journey that led him to be the CEO and owner of Nano Synthons LLC, and I'm really excited to have him here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: Doctor Tomalia, thanks so much for being here. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:02:10]: It's my pleasure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:11]: So first and foremost, I wanna turn the clock back in time. You did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint. And while you were at the University of Michigan Flint, you got a degree in organic chemistry. And somewhere along that line, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to go further. You wanted to continue your education. Bring me back to that point in time and where you were at in your mind and why you decided graduate school was the right path for you. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:02:42]: I actually was going to the I went to the Flint Junior College for my first two years, and I had a real deep passion for chemistry and science, but didn't really quite know how I was gonna make a living at it. However, I found a couple of real mentors in the Flint, Junior College faculty as well as on the faculty of the, University of Michigan Flint College. And the key person at the U of M Flint was doctor Harry Blacker, who really started your whole chemistry department back in gosh, I even lost track of what decade it was, but it was back in the seventies, I think, or sixties or fifties. He was there only a few years before I arrived on campus from, Flint County College. I think they call it not community college. In any case, I I came from a middle class family. My father is an accountant, a CPA from Flushing. I was born and raised in the Flushing area. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:03:38]: I couldn't afford to go to a pedigree, school like Harvard or East or as West Coast University. So I had to find my education as close as possible, and I had to find an education route that would I could actually afford. I was lucky enough to get a scholarship not only from the Lions Club in the Flushing Flint area, but I got an undergraduate fellowship from the, University of Michigan Board of Regents that covered my 2 years in Flint. And it, I can tell you, is probably some of the most precious and important days of my life because it really launched me into a career that I have I'm 86, and I have never had a boring moment in my life, ever since I left my undergraduate days because I picked the right profession to match my personality, my interest, and it was a a unique way that I arrived there. And that it was because my I've been told my parents, especially my mother, knew that I was a person that once I understood something or I learned how to do something or I solve the problem, I get bored quite quickly. And her biggest challenge was to find things to keep me interested because I would be solving these things. And I said, oh, well, that's done. We don't have any more to do there. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:04:59]: So she said, if you're gonna ever feel you're going to be able to live a happy and fulfilling life, you're gonna have to really be sure you pick a profession or an area that you will love and enjoy. Like, it's a hobby, and it's not really like it's work the way we think of going to work and earning a living. And I was just fortunate enough to find that chemistry to me seemed to be that route. It seemed to be the core. It was the essence of everything that we have in in our life, all the way from the environment, to food, to medication, to the way we even live, fact that we depend on all of these intricate chemistry processes and and, just to have good health and to be alive. And in any case, this started me on a path that I thought was going to be like a hobby. I never thought about I was gonna have to make a living someday. And so I finished my 2 years at U of M Lamp. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:06:03]: I was mentored and coached by faculty members in Ann Arbor, U of Ann Arbor, and they encouraged me to go to a small university out east called Bucknell University. And several of the faculty members had either been students there or taught there, and they said it had the perfect environment for what I was looking for. And that was I I love solving problems. I love trying to understand what makes things work, what is life about, what are patterns, how does all of this come together to give us what we take for granted each and every day, and it it involves some type of chemistry or some form of chemistry. And when I made that trip out to Bucknell for a master's degree, everybody says you've gotta go on for your PhD. Where are you gonna go? Well, my father informed me that I can't be a professional student all my life. This is the time when I really have to be thinking about what I'm gonna do to make a living, and I had actually become married. I became married during that time, and I was actually 22, 21, and have our first child. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:07:12]: And so I was really encouraged to try to get into a paying professional position. And of all things, the Doc Chemical company came along and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse. It was during those golden years when there were so many jobs. I had, like, 12 or 13 job opportunities, and Dow was just one of them. But it turns out to be one of the best. So after finishing at Button Hill, I came back here to Midland to start working for Dom with a master's degree. And I within 2 to 3 years, I realized that all of a sudden, I've got 10 or 12 PhDs reporting to me for some reason because I've always have a lot of ideas. I always like to do things and get things done and improve things. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:07:55]: And Finding Dile Management said, Tamalia, you probably are going to have to go back and get what they call your union card. And they said it's called a PhD because if you have this PhDs working for you, it's gonna it's gonna get more difficult, with time not having some kind of proof that you have the qualifications to lead. And that is what prompted Don Langhorne to make a proposition to me, and that was if you are willing to go back and do your PhD, which by the at that time, they had a nice arrangement with Michigan State for graduate study. If you are willing to do that, we allow you to do all your research in our laboratories, and you won't have to leave your job. You could continue to make your salary, etcetera. I couldn't believe it. And in fact, they came through with flying colors because they literally paid for about 3 years of graduate work at Michigan State. I think only the only thing I had to pay for was the binding of my thesis, which was about $35. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:08:55]: And I had a complete PhD within 3 years after I started at Don Chemical Company. And it it's a strange way I didn't oh, the main reason is they had a residency requirement that I said I couldn't afford to take the 1 year off to go in the residency because I really had to earn the money to support my family. And they waived the residency requirement, and they allowed me to use that facilities to do my PhD research and my product altogether into a thesis. And I graduated in 1968 from Michigan State. And by the time, I was leading a pretty big group. I had 20 some people in my group by that time. And I was having so much fun. I almost couldn't find my way to have to leave the lab and come home every evening. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:09:38]: I just love being in the lab as much as I could, but it did lead to some other things that I'd like to share with you as time went on. And among them were because of this opportunity, not only created them by U of M Flint because they were close. They had good mentors there, especially doctor Harry Blecker, and there were people at the Mott College or the Flint Junior College at that time. One of them was was Adi Makela, professor Makela. He was a Finnish scientist who came and taught me a lot of analytical chemistry. But it was that unique environment in the Flint area. When I went back to visit with you folks a few months ago, I couldn't believe how much you have progressed in advance because I hadn't been there in quite a few years in the Flint area. But we were really housed in less than maybe 4 or 5 small to modest buildings. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:10:31]: That was the University of Michigan Flint College. But what get out of that experience that was so unique, in my opinion, was this close relationship with faculty members who were outstanding that had all kinds of unlimited time to spend with you. You didn't get I was never lost in big classes or big classrooms. I always had this mentorship that was always available, especially at U of M Flint with Harry Bleicker. And it was this mentorship, I think, that that carried me not only on to Dow, but really carried me on into the rest of my career because I've gone back and thought about key points that really made, decisions that led to where I am now, and they always involve an important mentor or a teacher or someone that gave very important critical advice. And you didn't think it was important at the time until you look back at it in retrospect. But you might wonder, well, where did this lead? Maybe you have other questions, but it did lead to the discovery of of probably one of the biggest scientific discoveries that I've had in my career, and that, may be defined as the area of the what they call nowadays dentamers and dendritic polymers. And dendritic polymers really came about because of kind of a fascination with patterns, with any kind of pattern that you could think of whether it be weather patterns for the best days to go fishing or patterns that you might see architecturally in nature. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:12:00]: And I was always fascinated about the branching patterns that we find in the branching of trees. This is really referred to as a dendron, and it is kind of a very rudimentary prototype or model to show just to demonstrate the kind of an ideal branching that one might expect to see in trees. And I was just fascinated, why did nature decide to pick on that kind of architecture for every tree and many, many plants in the world? And I've been linked to a little more sophisticated level and asked, why did nature use that same kind of architecture to design the neurons in our brains in a branching patterns, which look very similar to trees, a lot of little trees. That fascinated me. And it raised this really a challenge for me intellectually, and that was, is it possible to make a molecule that might imitate what this architecture looks like or what a tree looks like? And that is what led to this discovery of what we now call the area of dendomers, dendrons, and dendritic materials. And, just to give you a quick overview of it, they were discovered at the Dow Chemical Company in 1979, developed throughout the eighties, and then licensed out, and they became the basis for forming 3 start up companies that I founded. The first one being Dendrotech, which is still in business in Midland, Michigan. They still are making Dendro's. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:13:32]: And Dendro's, just to give you a a real quick understanding of what they look like, is shown on this book that I wrote just about 8 or 9 years ago. And this is a dendron. That's that right there is referred to as a dendron, a trunk with the branches. This is a dendron. This is a tridendron. Precise. You can measure them. You can work with them. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:13:54]: They are nanoscale, and they are being used today for several very important medical areas. And one of them being they are now currently under investigation for the next futuristic COVID virus. Back of this last pandemic that we had there, the person that received the Nobel Prize for coming up with a solution to it, doctor Drew Wiseman, he's at the University of Pennsylvania in the chemistry. He's an adjunct in pet chemistry there. He came up with the notion of how we they could use these dendymers to deliver messenger RNA, which we now know is a is the magic ingredient they use for the COVID vaccine. So dendymers, this idea, this obsession I had with patents and especially why trees chose to use them, finally led to just the last few years where now they are being actively looked at, researched, and used, and optimized for, future vaccines that will involve the use of messenger RNA much as they have been used by Pfizer and Moderna too in the last pandemic. The second area that is really active and looking very important is that there's a company called Star Pharma, which is another story. They are the recipients of many of my patents and they were used these patents to start the initial public offering of their company. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:15:23]: They're located in Melbourne, Australia and they are currently have some of the best targeted delivery therapies for treating cancer. And I'm talking about some really tough cancers like pancreatic, prostate, and they are able to target specifically these cancers using these dendromeric materials as carriers to carry the therapy. To kinda sum it up, those are some of the smaller areas. There are some other bigger areas that I won't have time to talk about. But to put it all together in a perspective that you might grasp, it's kind of as follows. These dendomers represent a 4th major category or classification of polymers that we refer to as dendritic macromolecules. How do they relate to all everything else that we know about in the world called plastics, polymers. If you go back to the first very first polymer that was discovered and invented, it was a linear, like a piece of spaghetti. Dr. Donald Tomalia [00:16:17]: And it was a linear polymer, and it was discovered by Staudinger and a number of other very in famous people developed the nylons, corollars, and others. And it's at the bottom here, and it's called that is part of what poses the first category of polymers or linear materials. The second area, polymers, major architectural area of polymers are the crosslink polymers that we are everywhere in our life, and they're found in every tire that you've you've ever put on the car is a crosslink polymer. So these are crosslink polymers play a huge role in our lives, not only for...
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Wrapping Up the Year: Reflections and Celebrations for Graduate Students
12/23/2024
Wrapping Up the Year: Reflections and Celebrations for Graduate Students
As we approach the holiday season, it's time to reflect on your journey through the past year and look forward to new beginnings. Here's some advice for you during this special time. Reflect on Your Accomplishments It's easy to get caught up in the busyness of graduate school, but the holiday season offers a perfect pause. It is important to celebrate your progress, regardless of how small it may seem. Reflecting on your achievements is not just a pat on the back but a motivational exercise that reinforces your resilience and determination. Recharge for the New Year Graduate school can be both exhilarating and exhausting. The winter break is an excellent opportunity to rest and rejuvenate. We encourage you to take this time seriously, not only for self-care but also to reconnect with loved ones. Whether it's a peaceful retreat or festive gatherings, these moments are essential for mental and emotional well-being. Setting Goals with Determination As we bid farewell to one year and welcome another, goal-setting becomes crucial. Remember that being a graduate student is synonymous with rising to challenges. Therefore, as you jot down your aspirations for the new year, let them be guided by the same determination that has brought you this far. University of Michigan-Flint: Your Partner in Success For those considering further education, the University of Michigan-Flint offers a variety of designed to meet diverse needs. Whether you seek in-person or online learning, explore the options available at umflint.edu/graduateprograms. A Heartfelt Thank You Tank you for being a part of this journey. As the Victors in Grad School podcast takes a brief hiatus, he assures you that they will return in January to continue inspiring and guiding you through your graduate studies. Warm wishes for a joyful holiday season and a prosperous new year! For any inquiries, don’t hesitate to reach out at . Your path to success is just beginning. TRANSCRIPTION Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Hello, and welcome to the victors in I'm your host, Doctor. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. And as always, I'm here to support and inspire you on your journey through graduate school. Today, I just wanted to take a few moments to connect with you as we wrap up the year and head into the holiday season. Whatever you're doing as you're preparing for the end of the year, this is the perfect time to pause, reflect, and recharge. Here at the University of Michigan Flint, our campus will be closing for a well deserved winter break, and we will be taking a short break from the podcast as well. Victor's in Grad School will return in January, refreshed and ready to bring you more inspiring stories and practical tips for succeeding in your graduate studies. During this break, I encourage you to take some time for yourself and for your loved ones. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:05]: Celebrate the progress that you've made this year because every step forward, no matter how small, is worth celebrating. And if you're setting goals for the new year, remember that as you prepare to be a graduate student, you truly are victors rising to meet challenges with determination and resilience. I wanna thank each of you for being a part of this journey with us. Your dedication to learning, growing, and achieving inspires me. And I'm honored to share this space with you. From all of us here at the University of Michigan Flint and the Victors in Grad School podcast, we wish you a joyful holiday season and a very happy new year. We'll talk to you again in 2025. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]: Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at
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Finding Passion and Purpose: Christina Blitchok's Insights on Graduate Education
12/16/2024
Finding Passion and Purpose: Christina Blitchok's Insights on Graduate Education
Graduate school is an adventure, a transformative journey that pushes individuals to explore new horizons and discover their true potential. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School podcast, sat down with , Director of Alumni Engagement at the University of Michigan Flint, to unpack her unique journey from undergraduate studies to a fulfilling career path, underscoring the value of flexibility and perseverance in education. The Decision to Pursue Graduate Studies From English Major to Education Advocate Christina’s academic journey began with a Bachelor's degree in English Language and Literature from Albion College. Despite the common perception that an English degree naturally leads to a career in education, Christina initially had no intentions of teaching. It wasn’t until her year with AmeriCorps, working as a reading fluency tutor in California’s Coachella Valley, that she discovered her passion for education. Inspired by the impact she could have in the classroom, Christina returned to Michigan determined to pursue a Master's in Education, compounded with a secondary certification at the University of Michigan Flint. Choosing the Right Graduate Program Why University of Michigan Flint? In her conversation with Dr. Lewis, Christina elaborated on her decision to enroll at the University of Michigan Flint. Familiarity with the campus and its intimate, collaborative learning environment played significant roles in her choice. The program’s affordability and the accessible, supportive faculty made it an ideal setting for her intensive studies. Working directly with faculty and gaining real-world experience taught Christina invaluable lessons that would shape her career. Transitioning and Thriving in Graduate School Learning to Adapt and Overcome Christina emphasized the transition from undergraduate to graduate studies as a critical period of self-discovery and adaptation. Unlike the lecture-based format of many undergrad courses, her graduate experience was collaborative and discussion-driven. This shift challenged her preconceived notions and honed her ability to engage with diverse perspectives. She also highlighted the need for practical time management skills, given the life changes she navigated, including working part-time and planning a wedding while studying. Career Pivot After Graduation Embracing Change and New Opportunities After earning her degree, Christina spent three years teaching high school before realizing that her career needed to pivot due to personal circumstances, including the birth of her first child. Understanding the flexibility required in life and career, Christina transitioned into freelance writing and editing roles, leveraging the skills and perspectives gained during her graduate studies. Today, she works in marketing communications and alumni engagement, continuously applying the critical thinking and empathy fostered during her education. Advice for Aspiring Graduate Students Keys to Success in Graduate School Concluding her interview, Christina imparted valuable advice for prospective graduate students: Seek Mentorship Early : Establish connections with faculty and cohort members who can provide support and accountability. Stay Flexible : Remain open to experiences and willing to evolve. Combat Impostor Syndrome : Recognize that everyone is learning and growing. Develop Effective Study Habits : Tailor your approach to suit your unique needs and circumstances. Christina’s story is a testament to the transformative power of graduate education. By embracing flexibility, seeking mentorship, and staying open to new opportunities, she exemplifies how one can successfully navigate and thrive in the ever-evolving landscape of academia and beyond. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, Doctor. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. I call it a journey because it is a journey and you are on a journey as you're thinking about graduate school, as you're thinking about the next steps for yourself, as you're thinking about where you are in this continuum of thinking about graduate school, you could be at the very beginning. You might just be starting to think about, I think I might need additional education to be able to get that job that I've always wanted to move into that career, to be able to move up in a career, to get that promotion, to be able to do different things. Everybody has a different reason for wanting to look at that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: You could be someone that has already applied. You might have already applied and maybe, maybe you got accepted and now you're saying, is this the right step? Am I doing the right thing? I've gotten accepted. Do I want to make this jump? You could be in graduate school. Maybe at the very beginning, you could be getting closer to the end and seeing that light at the end of the tunnel. And no matter where you are, this podcast was built to help you to be able to find success in that journey. That's why every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that give you an opportunity to be able to look at graduate school in a little bit different way. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Christina Blitchok is with us today and is the director of alumni engagement at the University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:45]: And Christina did her undergraduate work at Albion University and then Nope, Albion College. She did her undergraduate work at Albion College and then decided to get a master's of education degree at the University of Michigan Flint. So we're gonna be talking about that journey that she went on, learn a little bit more about her, and I'm really excited to have her here. Christina, thanks so much for being here today. I Christina Blitchok [00:02:10]: am so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to be here with you today and to learn a little bit more about your journey. And speaking of the journey, I wanna go back in time. I talked about the fact that you got a bachelor's degree in English language and literature at Albion College. And when you finish that, there was a little bit of time and then you made a decision to go back to school. And I know within that you, you jumped in, you got a little bit of experience. You did some work, you did some work after college where you used that English degree to be able to do some editing work, and then you were doing some English instruction. And so bring me back in time and bring me back to that point where you just said to yourself, I've gotta make that step. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:54]: Why did you decide to go to graduate school? Christina Blitchok [00:02:56]: Well, it's actually kind of funny when I was getting my English degree at Albion, everyone asked me, are you going to go into education? Because English is one of those degrees that, people pursue it because they love it, and there's not necessarily a very clear career path, after graduation. And my response when I was in college was a vehement no. I will never be a teacher. I will never go into education. It's just not something that I saw for myself at that point. But I think if I've learned anything, it's never say never. And that different experiences and different perspectives can really change your trajectory if you're open to it, if you hold things loosely and just kind of follow where your passions and your experiences lead you. So, after I graduated from Albion, I didn't have a clear a clear direction. Christina Blitchok [00:03:52]: I thought about publishing, but publishing is unfortunately a really hard industry to get into right now. So I decided that I didn't wanna be idle and I didn't want to fall into a trap of jobs that I didn't necessarily feel passionate about. I'm kind of one of those people who needs to be passionate about their work, find meaning in it. I knew that I wasn't destined for, you know, punching a 9 to 5 job. So I enlisted in AmeriCorps, and I wanted to get out of Michigan. I love travel. So I actually signed up for an opportunity in Indio, California serving the Coachella Valley and English language learners in elementary school as a reading fluency tutor. And I should have anticipated it, but I fell in love with education. Christina Blitchok [00:04:39]: And I fell in love with the impact that you can have on individual students' lives as an educator. So when I came back after my year in AmeriCorps, I had a fire lit under me, and I wanted to pursue education. And one of the things that pointed me to grad school was the incredible opportunity that University of Michigan Flint had in combining a master's in education with a secondary certification. So I didn't need to go back and start from square 1 and, get an undergrad degree in a in education and then be able to get certified, but I could combine the 2 and really dive deep in a really, really shortened but intense time frame. And I loved my experience there. It was it was a wonderful opportunity. It was a great decision. And I really appreciated the flexibility that it allowed and just building on things that I had learned in my undergrad, and then kind of propelling me forward much faster than going back and starting from square one would have. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:44]: So talk to me a little bit about the decision, the decision that you made to go to the University of Michigan Flint. There are a number of different programs, not only in the state of Michigan, but beyond that offer the credential that you receive to be able to take a degree and turn it into something that you could teach. And the University of Michigan Flint's had one for a number of years, and you ended up choosing to attend the University of Michigan Flint. But as go back to that point where you were making those decisions, what were you looking for? What made you decide that University of Michigan Flint was the right program for you? Christina Blitchok [00:06:17]: Right. So I grew up in Fenton, which is about 20 minutes south of Flint. And I had been on U of M Flint's campus all throughout my life with different competitions and different camps. And so it was a place that felt familiar and felt comfortable for me, but I also loved the passion behind this particular program. It was just so much more personal. I was able to talk to the adviser right away. I was able to talk to some of the faculty because in a master's course, you are so personal, and it's so intimate, or in my experience, it was so getting to know those personalities and being able to talk to them 1 on 1 while I was making the decision of where to apply was really beneficial to me that I that I knew that that their perspective and their personalities were ones that I could see myself really diving deep with the affordability was also there. You know, going back to school just like a year and a half, 2 years after getting out of undergrad at especially at like a private school like Albion, affordability was a big factor. Christina Blitchok [00:07:30]: But then I also was able to work on campus during my time, and I was actually an English instructor for a Saturday camp, the health professions school had for high school students. So I was able to get real world experience on top of my coursework. And I think that that would have really only happened as easily as it did a place like University of Michigan Flint, where it's smaller, everyone knows you, they know what you're looking for, they can help connect you. And the collaborative nature is really strong at this smaller sort of university. So talk to me about AmeriCorps, Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:06]: because that's not a topic that we've talked a lot about in this podcast, podcast, but it is an opportunity. It is something that someone can take advantage of, whether it's right after an undergraduate experience, right after a graduate school experience that they could take advantage of to be able to use their degree, their education in a different way. Talk to me about what made you decide that you wanted to do that and use that English degree in that way and what you had to do to be able to be a part of that program. Christina Blitchok [00:08:38]: I'm a researcher and I like having a plan. So I took the summer after I got my undergrad degree and just researched all of my options. In that time, I applied for some jobs. I looked into some internships, and I landed on AmeriCorps. The way that it was pitched to me is it's the domestic branch of the like the Peace Corps. And that combination of service and service and vocation was really attractive to me. I do. I did love working with kids. Christina Blitchok [00:09:13]: I loved my dad's family was Hispanic. So I loved the idea of getting in touch with some of my cultural roots and being in being in an underserved community. And I really just wanted to broaden my horizons. Flint actually has a lot of great AmeriCorps opportunities, but it was a little close to home for me. So I I wanted to get out there and I wanted to learn learn things that I hadn't necessarily learned in the classroom in my predominantly white private liberal arts school. So that opportunity to expand my experiences and my perspectives. The process was relatively easy. AmeriCorps had at that time. Christina Blitchok [00:09:55]: I'm not I haven't been on the website since, but they had a pretty great search function where you could search any you could filter down the type of opportunities that you were looking for based on location, based on based on the type of opportunity, if you wanted to be an education, if you wanted to be a nonprofit. So I was able to narrow it down. And then this opportunity in the Coachella Valley really stuck out to me. I was born in California, although on the western coast. So it was some place that was relatively familiar. I had some family in LA at the time, so it wasn't it was getting me out of my comfort zone, but was still a safety net. And then the education factor, being able to use my English degree, being able to learn more about the fundamentals of reading that I'd kind of taken for granted, you know, 4 years into writing papers and reading Britlet. So yeah, it was a relatively easy experience from first deciding that AmeriCorps was something that I wanted to pursue to getting my acceptance. Christina Blitchok [00:10:55]: It was in the span of a month or 2. And then I was packing up and driving across the country with all of my belongings. So it was a great experience. I'm very thankful for it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:05]: Now we already talked about the fact that you made the choice after AmeriCorps to go back to school to get that teaching degree. And you chose to go to the University of Michigan, Flint. Now as you make those transitions, transitions from undergrad to grad, it is a transition and there are things that you have to learn along the way to be able to be successful in that transition. But you were successful. You found success in graduate school. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain your success throughout that graduate school journey? Christina Blitchok [00:11:39]: On a kind of ideological level, in grad school, I had to confront a lot of my a lot of my biases, a lot of my preconceived notions about how the world works. I feel like there's a level of hubris when you get your undergrad degree that gets torn down pretty quickly when you're in grad school. You know, just that higher level of of research, that higher level of thinking, that pushback that faculty gives you. So going into conversations, especially with cohort members, like cohort members can sharpen you and and really help you grow by adding in their different perspectives. A lot of my undergrad courses were lecture style. They we were just absorbing expertise from a faculty member. And then really a lot of our own analysis was done individually where my grad school experience was very collaborative. We would read a text and then we would come ready to discuss it, ready to share opinions, ready to disagree on things. Christina Blitchok [00:12:48]: So that was not something that I was very used to. And being able to find my voice in that sort of situation, being able to kind of synthesize my thoughts and rather than write a flowery paper about them, be able to argue with them with someone, who had different experiences than I did. That was difficult at first. Also just the academic side. My undergrad experience was kind of in a bubble. I was there to study. I didn't I had a very part time campus job, but for the most part, my entire world was focused around academics where in my grad school experience, I was working part time while balancing studies. I was getting engaged. Christina Blitchok [00:13:33]: I was planning a wedding. There was a lot of life that I had to balance things with. So my studying habits had to change. It wasn't just gonna happen on a quiet night after I got home from whatever campus activity, like it needed to be scheduled. It needed to be more regimented and it needed to be more flexible. I couldn't be so precious about my study and surroundings and you know, waiting for my favorite table in the library to open up like it needed to happen when it happened. And that was a great lesson in flexibility. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:05]: So one of the questions that I'm going to ask you is this because you did complete your degree, and you went off, and you taught for a few years, and then you left education. So talk to me about getting that degree, using it, but then pivoting and finding that maybe being in a classroom was not where you were meant to be, but that a different path was right for you. Christina Blitchok [00:14:33]: I loved the 3 years that I spent in a classroom. I felt like I was very well prepared and it was everything that I hoped that I would be. I loved that impact that I had on students. I loved the relationships that came out of it. I loved the creativity of lesson planning and building curriculum, but I actually left the class room when, you know, I talked earlier about flexibility and being able to pivot and how different different experiences and perspectives can kinda change your trajectory if you're open to it. And I got pregnant with my first child, and I felt the need to pivot in that moment. And I think that my journey up until that point, not knowing what I wanted to do, feeling led to education, doing my grad school experience and then teaching, like, it kind of was a perfect setup to I wasn't completely thrown off course by the idea of taking a moment to figure out if teaching was still right for me. Like, it wasn't as scary as it would have been if I had come out of undergrad with a very firm idea of what I wanted to do and then not being able to deviate from that. Christina Blitchok [00:15:47]: It's funny, like my degree is in education, but I feel like I still use a lot of what I learned in my grad school experience, if only because my experience in my master's course opened my eyes so much to experiences that were not my own. You know, a lot of my coursework was in Detroit Schools and kind of the unbalanced education system and, you know, the systemic problems that I was very unaware of growing up in suburbia. And it's something that I continue to be passionate about today. It's something that makes me...
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Navigating Imposter Syndrome: From Self-Doubt to Self-Belief
12/09/2024
Navigating Imposter Syndrome: From Self-Doubt to Self-Belief
Navigating Emotional and Psychological Barriers with Juanita Tookes In this week's University of Michigan's Victors in Grad School podcast, host has , Assistant Director of CAPS, discuss the often-ignored but highly prevalent issue of imposter syndrome. Together, they uncover the intricacies of this phenomenon and explore effective strategies for overcoming it. Understanding Imposter Syndrome Imposter syndrome affects a staggering 70% of individuals at some point in their lives, manifesting as a persistent feeling of being a fraud despite clear evidence of one’s achievements. Dr. Lewis underscores its ubiquity among graduate students and professionals, emphasizing how these feelings can lead to self-doubt, harsh self-critique, and even self-sabotage. Juanita Tookes explains that societal stereotypes, particularly those related to family dynamics and cultural expectations, can exacerbate feelings of inadequacy. She highlights how marginalized groups, especially those with intersectional identities, often feel the added pressure of proving themselves in professional and academic spaces. Recognizing Different Types of Imposters Understanding the different manifestations of imposter syndrome is crucial for developing tailored coping mechanisms. Tookes categorizes imposters into five types: Natural Genius: Believes that their knowledge is never sufficient, resulting in an endless quest for more information. Perfectionist: Feels that their work is never flawless, leading to constant stress and anxiety. Expert: Constantly strives to prove their expertise, fearing being perceived as unknowledgeable. Super Person: Avoids asking for help to maintain an image of self-sufficiency. Soloist: Prefers to work alone to hide any perceived inadequacies. Combatting Imposter Syndrome To combat imposter syndrome, Juanita Tookes offers several practical strategies. One key method is to reframe thinking patterns, shifting negative self-talk toward positive beliefs and actions. Embracing positive feedback and focusing on personal achievements, no matter the size, can significantly boost self-esteem. Reframing Perceptions: From Fear to Excitement A crucial insight shared involves the body’s inability to differentiate between fear and excitement. According to Tookes, recognizing this can help individuals cognitively reframe their experiences and interpret them positively. This perspective shift can prevent fear from dominating their mindset. Avoiding Comparisons A pervasive issue exacerbated by social media is the tendency to compare oneself to others. Both the host and guest stress the importance of staying focused on one’s unique path and capabilities, as comparison often leads to a distorted view of self-worth. Embracing Self-Compassion and Growth Self-compassion is essential when dealing with imposter syndrome. Tookes emphasizes the importance of acknowledging personal efforts and progress. She encourages listeners to confront their inner critic and take pride in doing their best, rather than succumbing to self-criticism. The Value of Mistakes in Learning Mistakes are an inevitable part of growth and should be viewed as valuable learning opportunities. Tookes advises individuals to adopt a growth mindset, where challenges are seen as stepping stones rather than obstacles. Final Thoughts Overcoming imposter syndrome requires a multi-faceted approach, combining self-compassion, positive self-affirmation, and a growth mindset. By reframing perceptions and celebrating personal achievements, individuals can navigate the emotional and psychological challenges associated with imposter syndrome and embrace their true potential. For more insights and practical advice, tune into the full episode of Victors in Grad School where Juanita Tookes offers invaluable guidance on facing and overcoming imposter syndrome. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Hello, everyone. Thanks so much for being here today. I'm doctor Lewis, director of Michigan Flint. And I want to say thank you for coming today to learn about this important topic, imposter syndrome. So many times I talk to students, whether they're in their first term or they're in later terms, you know, imposter syndrome always creeps in and it's definitely something that as graduate students that we always feel at least once in our graduate school experience. When we're learning new things, when we're asked to put our skills to the test, no matter what it is, there's always that little whisper in our ear that tends to hit us. I mean, and and that doesn't stop in grad school. I hate to say it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:00]: It doesn't stop. It it continues on as you get into your professional lives and do it and such, but there are things that you can do to mitigate that and help with that. And today, Juanita Tooks is with us today. And Juanita is our Assistant Director of CAPS. And I've had the great opportunity to be able to have her on doing some different presentations in the past. And she's great. You're gonna love hearing from her today. But I'm really excited to have her here to talk to you about this important topic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:26]: And I'm gonna turn it over to her. Juanita, thanks so much for being here today. Juanita Tookes [00:01:29]: Thank you so much for having me. Let's get into talking about imposter syndrome because that's something that everybody experiences. And I was reading some research about, I think about there was a research study, in which 70% of the population of that study had said and reported that they had experienced or were experiencing imposter syndrome. 70% is a large number. So it just goes to show that this is something that's common. It's not permanent. And we're gonna talk about what it is and how to navigate it. It's before you can have any solutions to anything, you have to understand the problem. Juanita Tookes [00:02:05]: You have to understand the nature. You have to understand the origin. But we can't be stuck there. Once we have an understanding of what's going on, that's when we can better identify how we can navigate with solutions. So let's get into talking about imposter syndrome and what that involves. So what is it? So imposter syndrome is a psychological experience. So it's feeling like you are a fraud. And I want to really highlight the fact that it's a psychological experience because it means that there's a lot of different things, lot of different thoughts and perceptions going on in your mind about your own abilities, your own capabilities, maybe what other people think of you. Juanita Tookes [00:02:44]: It's one of those things to whereas the mind is truly a battlefield. There is a lot that goes on in here. So with this experience of feeling like a fraud, this is based off of what a person thinks about how they have attained what they have. So as you can see from the picture on the right, you have a person who is getting excellent grades. They have certificates, they have degrees, they have accolades. They're getting praise. Good job. They're very productive, very innovative. Juanita Tookes [00:03:12]: But look at the person's face. Right? Even though they have all of these things, it seems like the facial expression doesn't quite match everything that they have. And so this is what imposter syndrome looks like, whereas you have to put on a face and act like that you agree with everything everybody is saying about you, but internally, you don't agree because you don't feel worthy. You don't feel deserving. You don't feel like you actually had what it took to get what you have. So you wanna make sure that you are evaluating your belief system about yourself because this is based on a person's beliefs about their achievements. Despite contradicting evidence that supports a person's accomplishments, the fear of being found out as a phony is very, very real. Imposter syndrome is something that's really difficult to deal with because like the last point highlighted, there is evidence. Juanita Tookes [00:04:02]: You got into graduate school, you got the acceptance letter, you submitted the documentation to prove that you have what it takes to be successful as a UN Flint grad student, but you still feel like I don't deserve to be here. Maybe it was just a stroke of luck. They just needed to fill out the program, so they just let me in. So again, it's you battling with you in your own mind about great things that you're doing. So it's not enough to just have the accolades and the praise and the grades and the certificates and all of that. Your belief in yourself also has has to match that. Because if there's a mismatch, it does it doesn't matter. You can make straight a's every semester. Juanita Tookes [00:04:41]: If you don't believe in yourself, then you're always going to make an excuse as to why what you have is something that's undeserving of you. So in the last point, it talked about this fear of being found out as a phony. Right? So imposter syndrome can elicit different feelings and thoughts and behaviors, including self doubt, harsh self critique, self sabotage, pushing yourself way too hard, comparing yourself to others, difficulty accepting praise, rejecting praise, minimizing success, and creating very high standards. So it's one of those things to whereas when we talk about all of these different feelings, sometimes people feel as though they have to prove to other people that they deserve to be where they are, even though the evidence speaks for itself. When you don't believe in yourself, you will put yourself in a position to feel as though you have to prove to other people that you deserve to be in this program, that you deserve this job. And the whole thing about that is it's unnecessary. You really don't have to prove anything to anyone, but there's reasons for this too, that we're going to get into a little bit later in the presentation as to what other external factors go into a person feeling like they have to prove themselves. But if you think about creating high standards and pushing yourself way too hard and critiquing yourself really, really tough, this can also provoke feelings of anxiety because of the intense pressure that you're putting on yourself. Juanita Tookes [00:06:07]: And of course, along with anxiety, there's other mental health obstacles that can manifest from imposter syndrome. And anxiety is a very intense emotion. It requires a lot of emotional energy to to be anxious. And after feeling so much prolonged anxiety, this may also lead to depression, which is you basically fizzling out. You've been so nervous and you've been so anxious and you've been so worried and you've been so concerned and you've been so on edge to whereas now you're fizzling out and just feeling sad and maybe you're having pity parties for yourself. Maybe you're just really feeling like withdrawn. Maybe you should quit. Maybe you should give up. Juanita Tookes [00:06:45]: So these mental health obstacles can continue to manifest in negative ways if we don't address this issue. So the key to all of this, and I said this in the last slide, is you have to re examine and reevaluate your belief about yourself. Do you And I think the, the question that I'm asking the audience today is, do you believe in yourself? I don't think that this is a question that we often take time to ask, but when we're talking about imposter syndrome and how many people actually experience this, this is a very key question. And you have to be honest with yourself. Do you believe in yourself? Do you believe that you can do this? Do you believe that you can pass this class? Do you believe that you can be successful? And if the answer is yes, great. But if the answer is no, I would also say that's it's a positive thing in a way because at least you are being honest with yourself about where you are with your belief system. And the good news about that is that you can change that system. You can change that belief. Juanita Tookes [00:07:42]: Okay. So we have some illustrations here that kind of show another outside perspective of imposter syndrome. So if we look at the comic strip on the left, you see a person who's sitting there, and they're receiving a lot of positive feedback. Look at all of the positive speech bubbles there. And the person is like, I guess. You know, I okay. But then you look in the bottom, on the bottom of that same strip, the person receives one negative comment, and that's what they feed into. You're right. Juanita Tookes [00:08:11]: I'm a failure. It's true. It's one of those things to whereas as a society, as a world, we can receive 100 of 100 of positive compliments and accolades and praise, but we are used to just feeding into the negative. And this is how you start to change your beliefs about yourself. What do you choose to, to pay attention to? Let's just say that you get your test back. You took an exam, you get your test back. You got most of the questions, right? You got 2 questions wrong. You're focusing on those 2 questions. Juanita Tookes [00:08:43]: I used to work with students as an academic advisor, so I'm very used to students focusing on the minimal and maximizing it. That was a stupid answer. I don't know why I said that. Even though they passed the exam, still did very well, they're focusing on 2 questions that they wish they would have answered in a different way instead of just saying, hey. I got 2 questions wrong. I passed the test. I'm very proud of myself because I studied really hard. We tend to really focus on the negative and dismiss the positive. Juanita Tookes [00:09:11]: When you look at the the comic on the right, you have 3 people here. This is doctor Adams. She's a social psychologist and the world's top expert on imposter syndrome. And the doctor says, don't be silly. There are lots of scholars who've made more significant. Oh my god. And, basically, she's saying, oh my god. I'm doing it. Juanita Tookes [00:09:29]: I'm a world renowned expert on imposter syndrome, yet I am showing imposter syndrome in this in this conversation right now. So let's talk about the types of imposters. So we have 5 different categories here. And when we talk about the person who is the natural genius, this is somebody who believes that everything that comes natural to them is pretty much not enough as far as knowledge. There's always more that I can know. There's always more information. This person is typically not satisfied with the knowledge that they have. And I think to a certain extent, that's okay. Juanita Tookes [00:10:04]: But when you're not letting up on yourself to appreciate all that you do know, you put yourself in a position to say, it's never going to be good enough. I have to know more. I have to know more. And if you think about it, there is no person in this world who knows every single thing. So you have to be okay with the amount of knowledge that you have in a given situation, in a given circumstance. If you want to learn more, that's great. But you don't want to put it in the, in the perspective of, I have to know more because I need to know more because I don't know enough. The perfectionist. Juanita Tookes [00:10:39]: I will be the 1st to raise my hand and say, I am a recovering perfectionist. With these individuals, what you're doing is not good enough. So with the natural genius, the knowledge that you have isn't enough as far as volume, as far as what's already there. You could learn more. With a perfectionist, you can do better. Like, I know you spent all night on this project, but I am going to nitpick, and this is not good, and that's not great. You could have said this better. This could look better. Juanita Tookes [00:11:06]: Again, this is putting intense pressure on you to be perfect. And just like I said that there is no one person that knows every single thing, there is nothing in this world that is perfect. Everything has error to it. As flawless as it might look or be experienced, there is no one thing that is perfect. That is a very, very high and unrealistic bar to try to reach. And when you put yourself under the pressure of being perfect, it can really put you in a mental state of just anxiety and high intense level stress. When we talk about the expert, this is someone who they feel as though they have to be an expert to show and prove to the world that they are capable of having knowledge and being able to talk about certain things. If I don't sound like an expert, that means I might sound like a fool. Juanita Tookes [00:11:53]: If I don't sound like this, if I don't know this, if I don't understand every aspect of this concept, then I might be looked at as someone who is insufficient or deficient in knowledge. And you can see a lot of related components when we talk about the types of imposters. The super person, that's the person who says, if I have to ask for help, then I'm weak. I'm inferior. I have to show the world that I can achieve success all on my own. I don't need help from my teachers. I don't need tutoring. I don't need to talk to an academic adviser. Juanita Tookes [00:12:26]: I don't need to ask for help from my professors. I don't need to be in a study group. Like, I don't need any help at all. I'm gonna take all of this on because if I have to ask for help, that means that that's gonna be a sign that people know that I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be in this place if I'm asking for help. An example that's kind of outside of the student realm is even in my role, when I first got into this role, I talk with my team about the fact that I know I'm gonna make mistakes and I'm gonna ask questions. If I was a person who was a super person, I'm also a recovering super person as well. I would say, hey, given my title of assistant director, you don't ask for help. Juanita Tookes [00:13:04]: You're the one who's supposed to have all the answers. You're the one who's supposed to know everything. If you ask for help, that's gonna make you look like you don't know what you're doing. These are very realistic examples of how people think through things in their mind because they don't wanna be looked at as a fake or a fraud or a phony. The soloist is the person who is like, I can just I can just handle it all on my own. Like, I can just I can just hang by myself. I can this is I I when I think about the soloist, I think about, like, the independent student, the student who doesn't wanna really work in groups, who really doesn't want to network, the student who's just kind of like a loner. Because, again, associating with other people and maybe partnering to work more efficiently, it could kinda show that maybe I can't get things done on my own, and this would confirm that I am indeed a fraud, and I do not need to be in the place that I am right now. Juanita Tookes [00:13:55]: So I think it's important to also talk about origins as far as what contributes and causes imposter syndrome. Family dynamics, how you were raised, the messages that were communicated in your home environment, cultural expectations and stereotypes. This is something that's very important. When I was in grad school, I went to predominantly white colleges. And so given the history of black people, not being able to experience the opportunities of higher education for 100 and 100 of years, there was the stereotype that black people were inferior, that they were not capable. We were not capable of learning or attaining any higher type of education. And so sometimes even unconsciously, certain stereotypes that belong to a cultural group or ethnicity, or maybe just expectations of your culture can put into your mind. This thing that I have to prove, I have to prove that I'm not...
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Strategies for Graduate School Success from Dr. Dick Sadler
12/02/2024
Strategies for Graduate School Success from Dr. Dick Sadler
Graduate school is a daunting yet rewarding journey that requires strategic planning, relentless perseverance, and a bit of serendipity. This episode of the Victor's in Grad School podcast brought forth an enlightening conversation with , a professor at Michigan State University, who shared his compelling academic journey, strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome, and advice for prospective graduate students. Here are the key takeaways from the conversation that can serve as a guiding light on your graduate school path. The Decision to Pursue Graduate Education Dr. Dick Sadler’s journey to academia began somewhat serendipitously during his undergraduate studies at the . He was encouraged by his mentor, Dr. Ed Chow, to consider graduate school. Dr. Sadler’s initial motivation was partly driven by logistical factors, such as securing health insurance and guaranteed funding, which were available through a program at the University of Western Ontario. This decision highlights the importance of considering all aspects — financial, personal, and academic — when deciding to pursue graduate education. From Environmental Science to Urban Geography Dr. Sadler’s transition from studying environmental science to urban geography represents a fascinating pivot driven by his long-standing curiosity about urban landscapes. He reminisced about his childhood questions regarding the urban structure of his neighborhood, which laid the groundwork for his interest in urban geography. The skills he acquired through GIS and computer mapping during his undergrad allowed him to delve into urban processes, demonstrating the value of transferable skills and interdisciplinary approaches in academia. Overcoming Imposter Syndrome Imposter syndrome is a common challenge faced by many graduate students, including Dr. Sadler. He shared that while imposter syndrome was prevalent at various stages of his academic career, it didn’t hinder his progress. His strategy was to remain focused, validate his progress through positive feedback and achievements, and immerse himself in the academic environment. Time and consistent effort became his allies in overcoming these doubts. The Value of Graduate Degrees in Professional Development Dr. Sadler discussed the significant role that his PhD played in shaping his career. He emphasized that his PhD provided him with the rigor needed for academic research, while his subsequent Master’s in Public Health from Johns Hopkins helped him understand the intricacies of public health. The combination of these degrees equipped him with a diverse set of skills, making him highly adaptable and capable in various research settings. His journey underscores the importance of continuous learning and skill acquisition. Advice for Prospective Graduate Students Dr. Sadler’s foremost advice for prospective graduate students is to secure a program that offers ample funding. Financial stability allows students to focus fully on their studies and research. He also stressed the importance of choosing a field of study that genuinely interests you. Graduate school requires a high level of engagement and creativity, which is easier to maintain when driven by passion. Finally, understanding that graduate school shifts from knowledge consumption to knowledge production can help students align their expectations and efforts accordingly. Conclusion Dr. Dick Sadler’s insights provide valuable guidance for those considering or already navigating the path of graduate education. Whether it’s overcoming imposter syndrome, leveraging your skills in new fields, or ensuring financial stability, his experiences offer a blueprint for success. As you embark on your graduate school journey, remember that perseverance, adaptability, and a genuine passion for your field are your greatest tools. For more details and to listen to the full conversation, tune into the latest episode of the Victor's in Grad School podcast. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. I'm really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, we're talking about this journey that you've decided to go on. Now you might be at the very beginning where you haven't even applied anywhere yet, but you're just starting to think about it for yourself. You might have already applied. Maybe you got accepted already. Or maybe you're already in graduate school, and you're just trying to figure things out along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:42]: Or maybe you're even seeing that light at the end of the tunnel and trying to figure out what's next. No matter where you are, this podcast is here to help you to find success in that journey that you're on. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people, different guests that have had different experiences that can share those experiences with you and help you to learn from the things that went well, the things that maybe didn't go well, and also allow for you to be able to grab some tools for your own toolbox to help you along the way. Today, we got another great guest with us today. Doctor Dick Sandler is with us, and Dick is a professor at Michigan State University. And he's been there for quite a few years, but I'm really excited to be able to kind of turn the clock back in time, learn a little bit more about his own experience that led him to being a professor at Michigan State, and to introduce him to you. Dick, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:01:40]: Yeah. For sure. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Well, my pleasure. I love being able to chat with you today and be able to learn a little bit more. And as I said, I wanna start by turning the clock back in time. And I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, where you received a degree in environmental science and planning in GIS. And at some point during that period of time, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were gonna continue your education and go on, and you made a choice to go on to get a PhD in urban geography. Talk to me about this journey for yourself and what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Dr. Dick Sadler [00:02:24]: Yeah. I had kind of thought about it, but not super seriously. And honestly, it wasn't until, like, end of my junior year, start of my senior year, I was doing some independent study with who had become my de facto mentor in the ge functionally the geography department. His name was Ed Chow. He's now at Texas State, but he had been a professor there just for a couple of years. And I took all of my GIS or computer mapping classes from him. So I'd basically, my whole minor, I had taken classes with with doctor Chow. And I guess just, like, seeing the caliber of my work and the fact that we were working together, he suggested that I present some of my work at a regional research conference, like, for our professional society. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:03:04]: I think that one was just down in East Lansing, actually. So it's funny. My first professional talk was at Michigan State. And then after that, he was just saying, you know, you should just throw in a couple applications to grad school. It's not gonna hurt, look around a little bit. And one thing I kind of wanted to do for a few years before was live in Canada. So I had this vague idea, oh, maybe I'll live in Canada someday. And then an also vague idea, maybe I'll go to grad school. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:03:30]: Over Thanksgiving, actually, because my family wasn't doing much that year, I drove out to a few campuses in Southwestern Ontario, basically headed toward Toronto, and had a really good chat with one supervisor that the person who had eventually become my grad supervisor. And so I looked him up before and gotten a bit of an idea of the work he did, went there, met with him and his students, had lunch, and just got a really good sense from that campus that it was a good fit. So it's kind of dumb luck because I the other visits, actually, the rest of that trip was kind of a train wreck. Had car problems and then it snowed and then just I was uninspired to keep going. But yeah. So I applied to grad school because my undergrad supervisor had suggested it. Just happened to get in and get a scholarship because the program at the University of Western Ontario where I went to grad school was guaranteed funding for any of the grad students that were accepted. And so for me, that was the main reason for doing that. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:04:26]: This was 2007 or 2008. And so this was before the ACA. And so, as a 22-year-old, like, becoming 22 that year, I was going to be off of my parents' health insurance and kind of off on my own. And I had some anxieties about that and moving into that next phase of adulthood. And going to Canada meant guaranteed health insurance and dental insurance because the grad students were in union. And I had a guaranteed teaching assistantship and a scholarship for my tuition. So it was honestly stepping into a job, if not a full time job. And, you know, if a more academic one, it was still something I always took really seriously and was able to take seriously because I was able to get an offer that was really it allowed me to not have to worry about those other kinds of financial questions, especially as a a young person, like, right out of undergrad, no kids, no pets, very mobile, that kind of thing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:19]: So talk to me a little bit about you went into a PhD program in urban geography, and your undergraduate work was in geography as well. But talk to me about couple things. One, why a PhD? You could have probably done a master's as well and and done that before a PhD if you had wanted to. And then 2, why urban geography? Dr. Dick Sadler [00:05:40]: Yeah. So and it's funny because the initial offering I had was to do a master's degree, and the program I started in was just starting to fuss with this idea of fast tracking master's students right into their PhD. And in some disciplines, you do do that or you have the option to. So after my 1st year of my masters, instead of progressing to writing a thesis, I wrote a small proposal and proposed being let into the PhD program, which guaranteed 4 more years of funding instead of just the one more year. So it was kind of a way to, like, kick the can down the road. Instead of 2 years of funding, I had 5 years total. And then instead of having to write a master's thesis in my 2nd year, I didn't have to write my dissertation until later in the PhD. So I was pushing some of that down the line. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:06:25]: But again, I wound up in the same position where my grad supervisor and I was co supervised actually. So my grad supervisors agreed that doing well and I had a good topic and seemed like I had an aptitude to progressing into that. And it was something that by that point, I had started taking more seriously the idea of staying in academia and doing research. And it was of interest. I was never a student who super liked writing papers, for example. I liked the math and science parts of my work more. But as I got into a topic that was really of interest to me, I. E. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:06:58]: Urban geography, I found I didn't mind reading and writing so much. You know, and again, my supervisors were saying, like, yeah, you're a good writer. And I had started I think by then I'd published a paper from my undergrad. So I kind of entered that world of academic publishing. And the urban geography part was, I think, honestly coming home a bit more. So my undergrad was like environmental science. And so it's like resource conservation and forest management and like natural geography stuff. But as a little kid, I was always curious about, you know, so I went to Atherton High School, which is in Burton, just outside of Flint here. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:07:32]: And my mom had gone to Flint Northern. My dad had gone to Atherton. And as a little kid, I was wondering, asking questions like, why are there no sidewalks? Why isn't there a 711 in our neighborhood? Why don't we have a video store? Like, just these little kind of urban ideas that you'd see on a cartoon or a TV show that were not the way that Burton functioned, you know, being a suburb of a city like Flint. And then also learning about how Flint used to look in the sixties when my mom was growing up and wanting to experience more of that and and really liking the what the functional city looks like and functions like and being able to walk and bike and all of these interrelated processes. And so when I got to grad school and and specifically I found supervisors who did that kind of research that allowed me to take the skills I had learned in particular with the GIS, the mapping stuff, and shift the topic from that natural side back over to the urban side. So the research I do is really broad and and especially having come back to Flint for my faculty position nearly 10 years ago, I've been able to dig into all kinds of different processes in Flint's urban system from vacant land greening to the water system to flight and demolitions and crime and really anything you could imagine that varies over space or that's a part of an urban system in Flint I've I've studied. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:57]: So after you got that PhD, PhD, you finished up your PhD, you, about 5 years later, made a decision to go back to school. And this time, you got a master's degree in public health from Johns Hopkins. So every person has a different path and different choices. So talk to me about that choice and why you decided that you wanted to go back to school after getting that terminal degree to be able to study something very different in regard to that next phase of your education? Dr. Dick Sadler [00:09:27]: That was a funny one. So I got my PhD in 2013. I got my faculty job in 2015 after a short postdoc. And after about a year here, we hired another faculty member named Deborah Furr Holden. She had come from Johns Hopkins. And after her being here for a couple of years, she told me that they were starting a program. She had colleagues back there and they were starting a program through the Bloomberg School of Public Health that would guarantee funding for master's students in particular from community based settings. So more of the applicants were from places like health departments or or, substance use program, treatment programs, things like that. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:10:09]: But she said, Oh, just throw your hat in. It's a new program. And if you get in, then you got to go into your Miles per hour. And I did. So then it's like, okay, I guess I'm doing another degree. And, and yeah, I didn't have a master's degree. And I had been working in a division of public health for 3 years at that point. And at times felt a little bit, it'd be like moving to France or something. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:10:32]: And like, you're kind of learning French, but people can still tell that you're American. And I thought, okay, this is like an immersion program that'll help me really understand the culture and the language of public health. And, yeah, so the program was partly in person. I got to go to Baltimore for a couple of weeks at a time and take intensive courses. And then a lot of it was online and I actually finished it the 1st couple of months of COVID were like my last term. And so the program was already online anyways and and wrap that up and kinda just like checking another box. But again, it was feeling more comfortable in the public health world and also making connections. I have some colleagues at Johns Hopkins now. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:11:09]: One of whom in particular, we do a lot of work together. So it was a nice way to kind of expand my research reach and feel like I have a little bit more skills in my tool belt. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:18]: So you've had these different experiences. And in each of those experiences, going to get your PhD, your master's degree, there are different transitions that you have to go through. So you went through you went through a transition between going from undergrad into your PhD and then from your PhD to the workforce, from workforce back into an a master's program. As you think about the transitions that you have had in your own educational experiences, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success in each of those? And what did you do to maintain that success throughout the entire graduate school journey? Dr. Dick Sadler [00:11:56]: So I think the transition from undergrad to PhD was the like, I don't wanna discount the anxieties of my former self. Like, I wanna say that that might have been the easiest. But honestly, I mean, on the flip side, I think adding the master's program to my existing work plate in retrospect, maybe that's the easiest because I was already an academic. I already had a PhD. I was going back for a master's in a related discipline to, you know, the kind of work I was doing. But yeah. So starting my PhD, I I never stopped going to school. Right? So it's like high school, undergrad, master's program slash into my PhD. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:12:34]: And so I still had the same study habits. And in some ways, I was well, in most ways, I was way more scared. I was, like, terrified that I was gonna bomb out of grad school. It was a path that my immediate family hadn't taken. And so there wasn't this example or people that I was close to that I could follow in the footsteps of. And so I spent a lot of I took a lot of effort and care to be a really good student through my PhD program because I wanted to set myself up for success. So in some ways, and I don't begrudge it at all, but I wasn't quite as loose and and free in my earlier twenties. And in on the flip side, it was like just the last few years of my life, I've been I feel like I've been able to loosen up and relax and enjoy vacation and stuff like that. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:13:20]: But also because I punched through and I took extra special care, I was able to get to where I am now. And so I feel like the transition from my PhD into the workforce wasn't too bad. I mean, again, it was another one of those big hurdles where I was like, okay, for sure, they're gonna figure me out now. I had imposter syndrome at each stage of my, honestly, like start of high school, start of college, start of grad school, start of faculty career. I've always had that kind of perspective where I'm not doing good enough. And it's funny because I've always ultimately excelled in each of those phases of my life. But I think it's good to go into something a little bit scared because then you make sure that you're giving it sufficient effort. And and I should add, it's not like I wasn't having fun in my early twenties. Dr. Dick Sadler [00:14:04]: I I've played in bands my most of my adult life and certainly have had friends and so forth. It's just I was balancing that much more precariously with this anxiety. It's like at a show or on vacation and I'm just thinking about my grad school work. And it's just dragging me down. Whereas now I can compartmentalize it a little bit better. I'm used to it. I write papers and I read papers and I teach guest classes and stuff like that. And, and it's much more routine, and I'm not so hyper fixated on this prospect that I'm going to fail all the time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:37]: When you think about imposter syndrome, and many graduate students face that at the beginning or throughout their experiences, What...
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Practical Tips for Balancing Graduate School and Life
11/25/2024
Practical Tips for Balancing Graduate School and Life
Navigating the demanding world of graduate school can be a monumental task, especially when balancing multiple roles. In the latest episode of the 's Victors in Grad School podcast, speaks with from Counseling and Psychological Services (CAPS) at the University of Michigan - Flint about finding balance and setting boundaries. Utilizing Transition Times Effectively A key insight from Reilly is the importance of utilizing transition times to reset. She suggests using short breaks between classes for rest or leisure activities instead of academic tasks. This practice can help students manage stress and stay emotionally balanced. Reilly emphasizes that these breaks can be instrumental in maintaining a sense of calm and preparing oneself mentally for the next task. Flexibility with Priorities Reilly discusses the importance of being adaptable when it comes to priorities. She highlights the necessity of shifting priorities daily based on circumstances. Graduate students often face changing demands, and flexibility is crucial for managing these effectively. Seeking Support and Accountability The episode also explores the significance of seeking support from peers, mentors, or counselors. Reilly advises working with others to relieve stress and gain accountability. This approach not only helps in managing roles but also creates a collaborative environment, making the journey through graduate school less isolating. Mastering Time Management and Organization Reilly recommends experimenting with various planning tools like planners, lists, and apps to find what best suits an individual’s organizational needs. Time management is essential for balancing multiple roles, and the right tools can provide structure and clarity. The Importance of Setting Boundaries Setting boundaries is a recurring theme in the discussion. Reilly outlines seven types of boundaries: physical, emotional, time, and internal boundaries being a few. Understanding and setting these boundaries based on personal limits and priorities can prevent overwhelming situations and enhance personal balance. Three-Step Boundary Setting Process Define the Boundary: Identify what you are trying to reduce, add, or accomplish. Communicate the Boundary: Clearly convey the boundary to relevant parties. Set Consequences: Determine your response if the boundary is not respected. Recognizing and Addressing Burnout Burnout is a common issue among graduate students. Reilly outlines signs of burnout, including physical symptoms like high blood pressure and headaches and mental indicators like difficulty concentrating and low mood. Addressing burnout early is critical to maintaining balance and well-being. Embracing Emotional Wellness Reilly emphasizes that emotional reactions should be acknowledged as part of building balance. Allowing oneself to feel emotions promotes self-compassion, which is crucial for graduate students facing high demands. Grounding techniques, such as the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 method, can help reconnect with the present moment and reduce overwhelm. Organizational Tips for Balance Practical organizational strategies are vital for balancing roles and responsibilities. Reilly advises creating schedules that include self-care and relaxation time, blocking out periods for social connections, and engaging in new activities. These strategies can aid in achieving a harmonious balance. A Comprehensive Approach to Balance Reilly Chabie's insights offer a comprehensive approach to achieving balance in graduate school. From utilizing transition times and seeking support to mastering time management and setting boundaries, her advice provides invaluable tools for students. Practicing self-compassion and recognizing personal limits are key to thriving in this demanding environment. For more resources, students are encouraged to explore campus services like CAPS, Recreational Services, and the Student Success Center. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. My name is . I'm the director of graduate programs. I really appreciate you being here today and for taking this next step in your own journey here at in graduate school to prepare yourself for what comes ahead and what you're dealing with right now. And and today, we've got a great guest. is with us today, and Riley is, in our CAPS office. And I I know she'll be introducing herself and what CAPS does, but, but today, I asked her to come in and to talk about finding support in setting boundaries, finding that balance for yourself. Reilly Chabie [00:00:51]: It's one of the topics that I always hear graduate students challenged by, whether they just started or whether they're in the middle of their program. So it's important to be able to go through and understand and have some resources at your fingertips to help you in this process, and Riley's here to do just that. I'm gonna turn it over to Riley for her to be able to talk to you and share all of her wisdom, and really excited to have you all here today. Reilly Chabie [00:01:16]: Thank you so much, doctor Lewis. I really appreciate it. Welcome, everybody. I'm grateful that you're interested in learning about this topic a little bit more, and hopefully some of the information we talk about today will support you in your journey as a grad student. But honestly, a lot of these skills are going to be helpful for all of life. There's not necessarily a specific timeframe or experience where this applies the most, but it's helpful to get these skills now so that they translate and continue to move with you moving forward. So like I said, hopefully you learn a little bit today. Reilly Chabie [00:01:51]: As Dr. Lewis mentioned, we're going to be talking a little bit about finding balance between the things that you're kind of expected to be doing as a graduate student, but also just knowing that you have personal endeavors and things going on in your life that also require quite a bit of your attention. So we'll kind of start off with just some what to expect experiences here, and then we'll kind of navigate into the specifics. But first and foremost, we're going to talk about what are called the 8 dimensions of wellness. And I think this is pretty crucial in any sort of balance forming as these areas are what we ultimately are making choices on every single day. We're determining whether or not we're prioritizing these certain dimensions in the hopes that we're creating a good enough balance where we feel kind of equal and stable and ready to take on the day. So we'll be talking about how those fit into this process today. We'll talk more specifically about what balance is and even more importantly, how we might be able to identify feelings of being unbalanced or the lack of balance. We'll also kind of think about some tips and tricks on how to navigate that, as well as maintaining balance once we've found what feels comfortable. Reilly Chabie [00:03:02]: We'll talk a little bit more in-depth about boundaries. What do those look like? How do you set them? Maybe some examples of what those can look like. Then, of course, we'll round out with just some last thoughts, as well as some resources on campus that you'll be able to utilize. All right. So the 8 dimensions of wellness. I'm not sure who has heard about the dimensions of wellness, but something that student health and wellness here on campus really tries to focus on are these 8 dimensions. There's a variety and I'm sure you've heard of some of them, like maybe emotional wellness or social wellness, maybe physical wellness. All of these dimensions ultimately help us feel connected to the whole person. Reilly Chabie [00:03:45]: So each of these slices of this wheel relate to us as a whole person. And, arguably, when one of them isn't working out very well, when we're maybe struggling in that area or we're not giving enough focus to that area, we tend to feel like that area is faltering and thus, a lot of our stress and difficulties start to increase. So I think it's really crucial that if we're thinking about balance, it makes sense to kinda give some tangible names to how like, what what balance even looks like and what areas we're trying to focus on. These 8 dimensions also kind of help us feel fulfilled and, like, we're achieving the potential that we want to be able to set for ourselves. So even just adding this into our regular vocabulary can be very supportive in not only identifying what balance looks like, but also just kind of feeling connected to oneself. And I also think it's kind of helpful to to think about this in the context of if we know these 8 dimensions, we are then able to identify what areas need work or attention. So for example, if I'm not doing so well in terms of my social experiences, That's probably a good indicator that maybe working on building ways to support my social wellness would be crucial in creating some balance. Maybe feeling more engaged on campus or connecting better or more deeply with my friends and family, etcetera. Reilly Chabie [00:05:15]: So I might notice that one of these areas or multiple at one time are impacted. Therefore, I have at least some area to start, which honestly can be the most difficult part about finding balances, identifying even where to start. We'll talk a little bit more about how you can identify problem areas. But part of what we will navigate is how our values impact our dimensions of wellness. Once we've identified that connective tissue there, that helps us find gaps in relation to those values and how we can adjust accordingly in order to support our areas of wellness. I like to use this as our background or you could say the theme of what to consider as we go through the rest of the presentation. That wellness and especially these dimensions are going to be a core piece of identifying support, finding that balance, and ultimately feeling a little more whole as a person. Alright. Reilly Chabie [00:06:22]: Balance. Honestly, balance can seem a little bit like a buzzword in some respects. Right? That, you know, we've we hear in a lot of variety and in a lot of different contexts that were meant to hold some sort of balance between maybe social and personal life as well as work life as well as school life. And that can get really complicated really fast. So some things that maybe can be helpful in considering what balance is and how we identify how it plays out is by looking at the types of responsibilities and roles we hold in everyday life. When I'm talking about roles, I'm specifically talking about the things that we're typically doing. For example, some of the roles you might hold include being a student, being a friend, being a significant other. You could consider being an employee or maybe even more specifically identifying what your job title is. Reilly Chabie [00:07:24]: That is still considered a role. So we hold a wide variety of roles at any given point. And, therefore, we're gonna notice some balance challenges popping up because of all of those responsibilities that we're trying to juggle at any given point. And because we have all of those roles and responsibilities, there's this expectation we place on ourselves to try to figure everything out all the time. And when we're struggling to build that balance or kind of create that feeling of, Oh, I'm actually paying attention to all of these areas in my life, it really starts to add on this feeling of stress and anxiety. And honestly, sometimes just this feeling of, I'm not even sure what I'm trying to do here when we're not able to balance all of these different roles and responsibilities. So, something we kind of want to consider is 1, what are those roles? You know, being able to to put labels to those roles, but even more so, can we identify the amount of energy and focus that we need or want to devote to those roles? Right? So, for example, it will be likely that as a graduate student, you're going to put a lot of energy and focus into your role as a student. So that includes making sure you're writing your papers, getting your assignments done, maybe engaging in things on campus related related to your degree or just to build social connection. Reilly Chabie [00:08:53]: But there's a lot that plays into that. So if we're identifying that as a higher priority or kind of a higher value for us, we're probably going to devote a lot of time and energy to it. But depending on if we're creating balance, if we're adding too much energy and too much, you know, time to one area, it can kind of get a little exhausting and the scales might tip a little bit. And we feel like we're doing too much of one thing at one time. So it's important to kind of think about, all right, you know, how much energy do I want to devote to this area? How am I going to prioritize this in my day to day life? And if we're noticing there's some discrepancies in terms of, oh, I'm, you know, I'm putting a lot of energy and effort in, you know, this one area or this one role, but it's really not that important to me or it's taking a lot away from other priorities that I have. That's a great indicator that our balance is not as even as we would like it to be. Thus, giving us an end to identify a space to work on. We might also know outside of these roles that our balance is a little off kilter if there are too many demands. Reilly Chabie [00:10:07]: Right. So if we're thinking about as a graduate student, there's a lot of assignments and a lot of things going on. It might be a bit stressful and feel like there's too much going on in order to devote the time we need to in all areas. So we might need to kind of navigate what comes first and how much energy we wanna put into that. So if there are too many demands that can impact our balance, our expectations in terms of perfection or what we're striving toward, that can definitely impact balance because one, nothing is perfect. We can't accomplish perfect because it doesn't exist. Therefore, if we're striving towards that, we're we're not going to feel that sense of stability in the same way that if we set a reasonable or manageable goal. So I think that can be a helpful thing to consider. Reilly Chabie [00:10:57]: In a similar vein, if we set unrealistic expectations for ourselves, that one kind of sets us up for potential misbalance, but also that impacts just our areas of wellness. We don't accomplish what we set out, especially if we're starting with something unrealistic or unachievable in in that moment, giving those circumstances. We're kind of giving ourselves that opportunity to feel disappointed, to feel disconnected, to feel hurt by our process and thus slowly building up some of these negative experiences. So. Keeping in mind these roles, as well as the energy we're adding to that. And some of these additional concerns that struggle with balance. This might be a really great way for us to identify those areas, and then kind of work on the specifics on how to navigate that. So just kind of keeping those things in mind, both the dimensions of wellness and balance. Reilly Chabie [00:11:52]: We're going to kind of think about how else can I notice when my balance is not as equal as I would like it to be? And a big consideration in terms of balance is burnout. So burnout comes up a lot in college, in grad school, and arguably in any form of system where we're working on a lot of different things or playing a lot of different roles. And burnout is somewhat synonymous with lack of balance. You know, typically, when we think of burnout, we're saying, wow, you know, I am spending so much time in this one area, and I feel really exhausted by it. That's a good indication that we're not only we're experiencing burnout, but that our balance is being affected. So some signs or some indicators as to if we're experiencing burnout can include a variety. But I like to point these two sections out because burnout isn't always physical and it isn't always mental or emotional, and it can be a common a combination of both. So if there were some things you might notice in terms of burnout would be high blood pressure, reoccurring headaches, sleep concerns, stomachaches, or when we have high stress, our immune system is affected. Reilly Chabie [00:13:14]: Therefore, getting sick more frequently can happen. For the mental and emotional signs, we may notice concentration difficulties, we might notice low mood, maybe a loss of interest in our favorite things, feeling like we're falling behind in certain tasks or expectations, or maybe even feeling stuck. Feeling like we don't necessarily know how to engage or how to move forward. Obviously, this is not an exhaustive list. There are so many other variations to burn out and how we experience that. These are just some of the common ones. And, you know, for example, I know when I'm feeling rundown, I sometimes isolate. Maybe I disconnect from my peers, even though theoretically, I might feel very comforted by them. Reilly Chabie [00:14:01]: I think mentally, emotionally, and sometimes physically, I don't necessarily have that energy to devote to those social connections. Therefore, my balance is off kilter. So just kinda keeping in mind that while these are very common, they may not pertain to you, but these are some indicators as to when we're experiencing burnout. I also think too that if we're noticing that there's multiple of these experiences happening at once, that's a sign of more intense or more severe burnout. You know, naturally speaking, we might struggle with some of these concerns popping up here and there. But it's when those concerns start to become unmanageable or they're more frequent or more consistent, that's kind of when we need to be alerted to, oh, okay. Something's kind of going on here and maybe this is my time to tackle it. So, you know, we've talked a lot about ways we can identify when our balance is being impacted. Reilly Chabie [00:14:59]: We've talked about some symptoms specifically that might come up when we're experiencing lack of balance. We've also considered a little bit of roles and how those play into it and the energy we devote to them. So shifting a little bit, how do we take all of that knowledge and how do we change things if we feel like we need to recreate that balance or build better balance? And I think it's helpful to kind of think about a few different things specifically. So, first of all, balance is something that takes time and requires a little bit of a step by step process. Of course, with the understanding of the different roles and expectations that we have, it's not gonna be an easy thing to change overnight to completely adjust how much energy we devote in a certain place or in a certain area. So keeping in mind right from the get go that it's that it's a step by step process and that you will take your time doing it can be helpful in the pressure that we might feel in trying to create that balance. But that balance is also a continuum. I'm even thinking like balance as in 1, I'm feeling totally, completely disconnected. Reilly Chabie [00:16:16]: You know, I'm, I'm really struggling with that balance to 10 being I'm perfectly balanced to, to the best of my ability, given the roles, given the expectations that I have. And, of course, typically, we don't wanna be on the extreme ends because sometimes those can come with complications of their own. But if we can kind of shift into, you know, a medium level of balance or kind of be able to create that safe space for us, depending on where we're at, that's ideally the part of the continuum we want to be on. So kind of keeping that in mind that my balance is going...
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Dr. Giordano’s Graduate School Experience: Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Opportunities
11/18/2024
Dr. Giordano’s Graduate School Experience: Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Opportunities
Graduate education can often feel like an uncharted territory brimming with challenges and decisions that significantly impact one's career trajectory. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School podcast, Dr. Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the , shared his multifaceted journey through various degrees, offering invaluable insights and advice for prospective and current grad students. From English Literature to Counseling Services Dr. Giordano's journey began with an undergraduate degree in English Language and Literature from Rowan University. Although he cherished the skills acquired, it soon became evident that the path didn’t offer the career direction he sought. A year into a lackluster job as a copy editor, Dr. Giordano encountered an opportunity to delve into student affairs through a graduate residence director role. This serendipitous chance allowed him to pursue a Master's degree in Counseling Services, a move influenced largely by the practical benefits of a tuition waiver. "A lot of this is exploration and discovery and kind of being open to what could be," said Dr. Giordano, emphasizing the importance of adaptability. The Stepping Stones: Certificates and Doctorates Dr. Giordano’s thirst for knowledge didn’t stop at a master’s degree. His career saw him picking up a graduate certificate in Adult and Organizational Learning from Suffolk University, which he described as a crucial stepping stone that prepared him mentally and academically for the rigors of a doctoral program. His eventual Ph.D. in Higher Education from the University of Toledo proved pivotal. "Understanding the environment that we work in, the institution type, different student demographics...really taught me just kind of the world of higher ed and expanded my lens,” he noted. Each academic pursuit was a calculated move to enrich his skills, broaden his scope, and offer deeper insights into student affairs. Balancing Commitments: Keys to Success Dr. Giordano highlighted the importance of realistic goal-setting and time management. "You’re going to have to sacrifice something," he noted, speaking candidly about balancing full-time work, family commitments, and academic demands. His strategy involved turning a local coffee shop into his makeshift office and using late hours in his work office to focus on his studies. Personalizing his study environments and setting strict boundaries enabled him to successfully navigate through numerous academic challenges. Empowering Students: A Holistic Approach Today, Dr. Giordano employs skills gleaned from his counseling background to manage both people and situations effectively. Active listening, empathy, and conflict resolution are tools he uses daily to support his team and the broader student body at the University of Michigan Flint. His biggest advice to students contemplating graduate education is to “follow your heart” and to pursue areas where they have genuine passion, reflecting his own son's decision to switch majors to meteorology—a bold step fueled by passion despite the rigorous path ahead. Final Thoughts Dr. Giordano’s narrative is a testament to the nonlinear, often unpredictable paths that many take in their pursuit of higher education. His journey underscores the value of being adaptable, understanding oneself, and committing fully to one’s passions. Whether you are at the beginning of your journey or navigating through it, his insights offer a roadmap to making the most out of your graduate school experience. For those contemplating graduate studies, Dr. Giordano’s story is a powerful reminder that the path to success is seldom straight but is always worth the journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, director of at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We're on this journey of looking at grad school. You may be at the very beginning where you haven't even applied for grad yet, but you've got that inkling in your mind where you're saying to yourself, you know what? Grad school is where I am headed. And you're just starting to look at things, or you might have already applied. Maybe you got accepted already, or maybe you're in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: No matter where you are, you are on a journey, and it will be continue to be a journey until you're through that graduate school experience. And that's what this podcast is all about. It is here to help you along this journey to give you some tools for your toolbox and to give you some ideas, some thoughts, some perspectives from other people that have gone before you that can help you to see maybe some of the roadblocks, some of the barriers, some of the things that those bumps along the way that you might not anticipate, and so that you can start planning ahead of time. That's why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that have done this graduate school journey for themselves, and it can provide some of their own perspective. And today, we got another great guest with us today. Doctor. Christopher Giordano is with us today. And Doctor. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:34]: Christopher Giordano is the vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of Michigan Flint. And he went on his own graduate school journey. And we're gonna talk about that today. I'm really excited to have him here today to share that journey with you. Chris, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:01:47]: Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks, Chris. Happy to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:49]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here as well. And I we're gonna go back in time. I wanna go back to those undergraduate days at Rowan University, where I know you did your undergraduate work. And, you know, you did that undergraduate work in English language and literature. But then at some point, after getting that first degree, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were gonna continue on and get a graduate degree in a different area in counseling services. So talk to me about what led you to decide initially that you wanted to move forward and move into that graduate degree? Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:02:25]: Absolutely. So like you mentioned, we all have our own journeys, and there are multiple kind of factors and variables that enter into how we make the decisions we do or how we end up where we do. And for me, it was sort of unique in that I had an English literature, English degree as an undergrad, which I loved, prepared me in in ways I had not anticipated. Use those skills today still, but it didn't really provide me with a career path per se because I wasn't interested in in teaching. I wasn't interested in secondary ed. So I ended up, working as a copy editor at KPMG. So back in the day, there were the big six accounting firms. It was KPMG, Pete Warwick. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:03:19]: Now I think there are maybe 4 or who knows with all the with all the mergers. It was a very good global organization, but the work was not really what I was looking for. And sometimes you don't know until you do it. So I was literally editing business and consulting reports, and I would equate that to watching paint dry or watching a fan oscillate. I mean, it's pretty dry. Know, good experience, but not necessarily what I was looking for long term. So I did that for a year. And like many other people, you graduate, you need a an income. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:03:53]: So it was a steady income. But then at that point, I decided that I had some friends out in California, and we always talked about maybe living out there together, so moved out there. But I went out there during a very difficult time. It was during one of our recessions, and it was very difficult to find employment at that time. So I ended up coming back to New Jersey where I was from, and I was looking at all kinds of opportunities. And I saw this opportunity as a graduate residence director at a small private college in New Jersey, probably about 10 minutes outside of Manhattan. And I was applying to many things at the time. So I was considering graduate school, but I think this is what led me to pursue it at that time because I ended up getting that position. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:04:40]: And as part of that position, I was able to go back, get my master's for free in exchange for working in the residence halls. So that's what got me in, and the program that seemed to fit me best was their counseling services program. So I ended up enrolling in that program. And, you know, that's really provided me with with some, terrific, direction and skill development in ways that I hadn't anticipated as well. So a lot of this is exploration and discovery and and kind of being open to what could be and then being flexible with how you look at the next phases of your life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:16]: It's always important to look at those options. And, you know, it's interesting because when looking at some of your backgrounds, you also got another credential as you went along. You were working at Suffolk University and you got a graduate certificate, as adult in organizational learning. And then you continued on and got your doctorate degree at the University of Toledo, not exactly at the same time that you were working at the University of Toledo. So talk to me about those additional credentials. So you went on after the master's degree. You decided to continue learning, continuing to push yourself in different ways. What made you decide to get the graduate certificate, but then to push yourself even further to get that doctorate degree? Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:05:54]: Having received the the master's in counseling at what was at the time of Uppsala College, we were required to have 2 experiential types of placements. 1 was a practicum, and 1 was an internship. So I completed a practicum in a counseling center at William Patterson University, which is a state university in New Jersey. And I completed an internship in career services at Montclair State University and another state university in Jersey. And then that really helped with my pathway into higher ed. So my first position was at Long Island University at the CW Post campus as a co op coordinator, but that sort of propelled me on on the pathway of careers in in higher ed. And in higher ed, our product is education. This is kinda what we do. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:06:44]: This is what we produce in addition to all kinds of other ancillary things. But, when you're in this this environment and in this culture, I think you continue to crave, you know, learning and more exploration, more discovery. So I had before I actually pursued that organizational learning certificate, I was working at the University of Connecticut and I enrolled in their doctoral program in human and family studies. My real path was in career in student affairs. That was my career path, but they didn't have a a student affairs program, student affairs higher ed. So this was one that I thought was close. You know, it was at a time in my life where I didn't have a lot of other demands on my time, and I thought it was, you know, the right time to go back. And and I took 2 or 3 classes in that program, and I just realized it wasn't for me. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:07:36]: If I was gonna dedicate the time and effort, I needed to do it in an area where I had more of a passion. So that's what led me to, so when I took that position up in Boston at Suffolk, they had an organizational learning certificate, which at the time was meant to help get me back into the mind space of pursuing a a doctoral degree. So, you know, when you're out of it for a while, you forget what it's like to be a student. You forget what it's like to be kind of in that space and the type of discipline and focus and sacrifice it takes to hold a full time job and and then to go back and pursue a degree. So that was really designed just to get me kind of back into the swing of things. So I completed that, and then that I felt I was better prepared then to enter into a doctoral program. And that's what I did at the University of Toledo. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:28]: And talk to me a little bit about the University of Toledo. You weren't working there, so it's not the same perspective in regards to some of your other degrees and working for those institutions. What made you decide that the University of Toledo was the right bit for the doctorate program that you chose to attend? Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:08:43]: Well, I was working there for a short time, so I'll go a little far afield here, but my wife and I met in Boston. We were at the, working at the same university in Boston. She's originally from Toledo, born and raised. She was looking to get back there. We just had a couple kids and cost of living, close to family, all that kind of stuff. So I ended up accepting a position at the University of Toledo, and I worked there for a year. And I enrolled in their doctoral program during that 1st year. And I was only really interested in applying for positions at universities that had doctoral programs that I was interested in, and they had a higher ed doctoral program. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:09:19]: So I started there, and then again, this was in, I'm gonna say 2,009, and I think that was when another big recession hit. And my position was a newly created position, so it was one of the first that was that was sort of eliminated. So I began the program, transitioned into another role at another college, but then I maintained my my enrollment in that higher ed program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:42]: So in all of these different degrees, going from undergrad to masters, going into the certificate, going into the doctorate, every level, there are transitions. Every student goes through them. You started off by going from high school into undergrad, undergrad into those additional degrees, and you found success in those. You got through the degrees. You kept moving forward in your career. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success in those different degrees? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school experiences? Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:10:15]: Yeah. I would say a big part of this for me is you understanding the commitment that it's gonna take to get through this, especially when you have all these other demands in your life. If you're working a full time job, if you do have a family, if you have other sort of obligations and responsibilities, you're gonna have to sacrifice something. And for me, I knew I wasn't really willing to sacrifice the time with my kids, so it was all the other sort of leisure activities that I would normally do. And my time was really spent just focusing on classes, study time, weekends would be dedicated to study. And for me, I knew I couldn't do it at home. There were just too many distractions at home. So I remember in Toledo, there's this little Big B Coffee Shop, and I would take up this corner table in this big b coffee shop, and I would be there every week, every month for years, and that was sort of my my office. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:11:11]: The other place I I would work, I would stay late in my office at work, and I would work there as well. I just knew that, trying to work at home was not gonna be, I think, effective for me, which is just personal. It's, you know, it's it's what works best for you. So I needed to make those decisions about what I was willing to, eliminate to create additional time for me to do the things I needed to do to be successful. And and if you enter into something, you you certainly wanna set yourself up for success. And I think sometimes that's that's where we we fall down a little bit is not really taking into account how this is gonna affect the rest of your life, and then making those sort of intentional decisions about how you're gonna alter that to allow yourself to be successful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:56]: Now you've had numerous degrees. They've been at in different types of areas. Talk to me about, as you look back at your graduate education and you look back at your career and the work that you're doing now as a vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of Michigan Flint, how do you feel that those graduate degrees, your undergraduate degree, all of these degrees in total, have prepared you for the work that you do on a daily basis? Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:12:21]: I think it's a great question. And I and I think each has served a role. As an undergraduate English major, it really teaches you how to think critically. It develops effective problem solving skills. It certainly helps with developing strong communication skills, certainly written communications. That's a huge part of my position here constantly, you know, having to craft different communications, whether it's it's out to the campus, whether it's to other constituents needing to speak in front of groups. So you have to develop, you know, the the ability to to, craft comments and be effective at public speaking. So the English degree has really helped me, I would say, throughout my career. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:13:05]: And and again, in ways that I didn't necessarily anticipate. And my my counseling degree has really helped me as as a supervisor and as as a leader. It's really provided me, and I use these counseling skills every day. The active listening skills, you know, empathy and and conflict resolution, team building. All of these things through counseling, I really use on a daily basis because as you continue to grow in your career, and certainly along my career path, you take on more of an administrative role. And as an administrator, what you're doing is managing people and situations. And that is the lion's share of what you do, and you have to have sort of the emotional intelligence and the ability to manage people in effective ways and hold people accountable, but at the same time provide them with the kind of support and resources they need to be successful. So much of what I learned in counseling has really allowed me to focus in on what some of the issues are, whether it's person centered or issue centered, and then really develop some intentional ways of meeting needs of of people or managing people in situations. Dr. Christopher Giordano [00:14:24]: But I remember when I was a counselor in some of these counseling sessions, you are so laser focused on not only what somebody is saying, but how they're saying it, what their body language is, what their facial expressions are. And these are all different types of communications. So I continue to use that as I work with people and really try to necessarily what they're truly communicating or what truly the issue is. And really try being sure that you're you're not solving what you think the issue is, but you're at the heart of truly what is the issue, and then you're you're kind of getting at that. So counseling has certainly helped me with that. And then the doctoral degree, that's really understanding the environment that we work in, the institution type, different student demographics, what you can know through data about your student population on the way in, so you can prepare for what some of these needs are gonna be, what some of these gap areas are, and how you continue to create the conditions and environments that allow them to be successful....
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Yasmine Affes on Balancing National Leadership and Graduate Studies
11/11/2024
Yasmine Affes on Balancing National Leadership and Graduate Studies
Graduate school is a unique journey marked by both challenges and triumphs. For those pursuing careers in the healthcare sector, like , a at the University of Michigan Flint, this journey is even more demanding and rewarding. In a recent episode of Victors in Grad School, Yasmin shares her insights, from choosing a graduate program to finding success within it. This blog explores her journey, her path to leadership, and her tips for future graduate students. The Journey to Graduate School Yasmine's journey to graduate school began in high school, ignited by her passion for math and science and guided by her mother, a physician. Unlike many who stumble upon their career paths, Yasmine was proactive, researching various medical professions with her mother's help. She discovered the PA role, a perfect blend of her interests and career aspirations, offering flexibility across various medical specialties. Yasmine received her undergraduate degree in Sports and Exercise Science from Wayne State University. During her undergrad years, she accumulated essential clinical hours and served as President of the Pre-PA Society, demonstrating her leadership potential early on. Choosing the Right Graduate Program Selecting the right graduate program can be overwhelming. Yasmin solely applied to the PA program at the University of Michigan Flint, a decision influenced by her extensive research and active involvement in the Pre-PA Society. Her interaction with the program director and faculty, coupled with the program's commitment to serving underserved communities like Flint, cemented her choice. "I loved everything about U of M Flint's program... and I could not be more happy with my decision. The biggest reason I chose PA was because of the flexibility," Yasmin shares. Overcoming Challenges Graduate school is notoriously challenging, a truth Yasmine experienced first-hand. She struggled in her first semester, even failing an exam. Rather than view these setbacks as failures, Yasmin leveraged them as learning opportunities. "Grad school is a different beast... but those are the topics we're truly interested in," she reflects. Yasmin adapted her study techniques, focusing on creating questions and scenarios that deepened her understanding of medical conditions. The support from faculty and resources like a learning specialist played crucial roles in her academic turnaround. Reflecting on her journey, Yasmine emphasizes the importance of resilience and adapting one's study methods to meet the rigors of graduate education. Leadership and Advocacy Yasmine's leadership journey didn't stop at the state level. Her involvement with the (MAPPA) piqued her interest in national advocacy. Encouraged by peers and her own drive, Yasmin ran for and was elected President-Elect of the . This role blends her passion for advocacy and leadership, allowing her to impact legislation and advocate for PA students nationwide. Yasmin expresses a deep commitment to increasing diversity within the PA profession and advocating for underserved communities. Tips for Future Graduate Students Drawing from her experiences, Yasmine offers several tips to future graduate students, particularly those in clinically based programs: Active Learning: Passive learning is insufficient for mastering complex medical topics. Yasmin recommends actively engaging with the material by creating detailed scenarios and questions to test understanding. Utilize Resources: Most graduate programs offer support resources like learning specialists. Yasmin found these invaluable in overcoming academic hurdles. Network and Get Involved: Building a robust professional network is crucial. Yasmin’s involvement in state and national advocacy not only broadened her network but also enriched her educational experience. Resilience: Accept setbacks as part of the process. Yasmin’s initial struggles were pivotal in developing the adaptive strategies that led to her success. Yasmine Affes’ journey underscores the importance of preparation, adaptability, and involvement in finding success in graduate school. Her story is a testament to the impact of resilience and leadership in overcoming challenges and making a difference. For those on the cusp of their graduate school journey, Yasmin's experiences offer a blueprint for navigating this complex and rewarding path successfully. As she continues to advocate for PA students and underserved communities, Yasmin exemplifies the potential for graduate students to make significant contributions to their fields and communities. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, you are on a journey. And I say it's a journey because it truly is a journey. Every person that is thinking about graduate school is in graduate school, sees that light at the end of the tunnel because you're almost done with graduate school. Wherever you are in this continuum of thinking about or being in graduate school, you're on that journey, and you're working toward the goals that you that you have set for yourself. And that's why this podcast exists. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:48]: Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, and to be a resource for you, to help you to be able to step through that journey, walk through that journey to help you along the way. And that's why every week we bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that have walked on this path like yourself, that are currently in graduate school, have completed graduate school, but have figured out some things along the way about what it takes to find success in that journey. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Yasmin Afes is with us today, and Yasmin is a physician assistant student at the University of Michigan, Flint. She did her undergraduate work at Wayne State University. And then soon after graduating, she made that decision of applying to graduate school and decided to attend the University of Michigan Flint. But I'm really excited to be able to talk with her about her experiences and her journey into graduate school and now through graduate school, and I'm happy to introduce her to you today. Yasmin, thanks so much for being here today. Yasmine Affes [00:01:58]: No. Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:59]: It is my pleasure. I'm really excited to be able to talk with you. I mentioned that you had done your undergraduate work at Wayne State University. And every student has that origin story and that journey that they go on. You did your bachelor's degree in sports and exercise science. And sometime along the way, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to continue on to work toward being a physician assistant. I know you've got involved as an undergraduate student in the pre PA society there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:30]: You were the president of the pre PA society there. So bring me back. Let's go back to that beginning and talk to me about those first steps. And what were the reasons that you chose that you wanted to continue on to go to graduate school to become a physician assistant? Yasmine Affes [00:02:44]: Yeah. So I actually started in high school. My senior year of high school, I remember thinking like, what school do I want to go to and what do I wanna major in? Because those things determine what I wanna do for the rest of my life as well. So I was like concerned about it because I had no idea what I wanted to do. I guess that was most people in high school. I was like, I need to figure this out. Like, I need to come up with a plan. And I talked to my parents about it. Yasmine Affes [00:03:09]: I was like, I don't wanna go to medical school, but I like medicine. Like, I like math and science. Those have always been my strong suits. And my mom told me about the PA profession. And we both did research together about it and saw, like, what I needed to do. So my senior year of high school, she actually put me in I'm lucky because my mom is in also in medicine. My mom was a physician. So she helped me a lot guide me through the ropes. Yasmine Affes [00:03:33]: But, throughout this journey, like, I have that guidance. So what I try to do is give it back to others. So my mom put me in certified nurse assistant course. So my first job was a CNA out of high school, And then I accumulated my patient care hours throughout undergraduate. I worked as a COVID tester. I worked as a medical assistant for a pulmonologist for two and a half years. So I got all of my hours in during undergrad so that I could just go straight from undergrad to PA school. So that kind of worked out well for me, and I got really involved at Wayne State as well. Yasmine Affes [00:04:09]: I actually chose Wayne State first because it's a good, like, medical school or and, like, it has great math and science courses. But second, because I ran track in college, I always wanted to run track, and I wanted to pick a school where I could do that and something I'm interested in. So and then I ended up starting my own club at Wayne State called Herd Immunity where we discussed vaccines and the importance of vaccines. And I think, like, having that extra curricular involvement and being involved in the community in Detroit an underserved area and applying to school that's in Flint also an underserved area those attributes were very appealing for me and my application. I I feel like U of M Flint was actually the only graduate school I applied to that cycle. I really enjoyed the program. I went to so many monthly meetings and I loved the faculty. They knew my face because I would ask so many questions every time but I loved everything about U of M Flint's program and that ended up being the only school I applied to and I could not be more happy with my decision. Yasmine Affes [00:05:15]: And I love PA school. My mom says no matter which PA school you would go to you would love it, but I think our faculty is super supportive, and it's been amazing. The biggest reason I chose PA was because of the flexibility. So you can work in any specialty. We're trained as generalist. We're based on the medical model, so we're learning similar things to students in medical school are, maybe a little less detailed. There's a lot less histology, like cellular level things, and there's less pathophysiology. We learn really the nitty gritty, the basics, and then we build upon that. Yasmine Affes [00:05:51]: So we also don't get any breaks throughout school. It's a continuous 27 no. Mine is 28 month program. The average program in the country is 27 months. That's why I ended up choosing PA school, and I'm really happy with that decision. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:07]: So I can tell you did your research, which is great because not everybody does as thorough of research as it seems like you did to figure out the right program for you, and you did choose to attend the University of Michigan, Flint. Bring me back to that decision making process for you. You did say that you did your research and you only applied to the one program. Not everybody chooses to do that in the in the CASPA system, and, you know, many people will choose to try a couple of programs that seem like good fits. So what were you looking for in a PA program, and what made you ultimately decide that the University of Michigan Flint was that only pro program that you're going to apply to? Yasmine Affes [00:06:47]: Yeah. So I went to the most monthly meetings for U of M Flint. I went to so many during undergraduate because I was the president of the pre PA society. I had to talk about these programs and what makes them different and different attributes. So I had to educate myself, but also it was a win win because I had to learn about the other programs in the state for myself so that I knew what would be the best fit for me. Our program director, Gilkey, she actually spoke to our pre PA society. And the first time she spoke to us, I think I was a sophomore in college, and I was running that meeting because the higher ups couldn't go. So I was asking professor Gilkey questions about the program, and I fell in love with it then and there. Yasmine Affes [00:07:27]: She really talked about wanting to support the community of Flint and things that we could do to help Flint. There's like a volunteer program. We go to we go to schools and tutor kids in an after school program. I think we did it about 3 or 4 times a semester for a few hours, and those were pivotal moments to see, like, what is really happening in our community. I had a child who was crying and I thought, oh, she might have gotten hurt. She might have been bullied or something. And I went up to her and I was like, why are you crying, sweetie? And she had tooth pain. And I looked in her mouth with a flashlight and she had the worst cavity rotten tooth I've ever seen. Yasmine Affes [00:08:08]: Like, she's never been to the dentist and just seeing, like, the health disparities in this community and wanting to be able to help them. I've always wanted to work in an underserved community. I plan to work in an area similar to Flint or Detroit or somewhere where I can truly make a difference. And I think having that experience in a community like this is amazing. I mean, she didn't go into as much detail as that when she was talking about it, but I was really in awe of the program and the things that they do to help blend in. So that's ultimately why I chose it. And, also, because CASPA has a different application cycle, our school isn't rolling, and the application deadline was later than the other schools, and I just didn't feel confident. I feel like I'm kind of a perfectionist, and it was ultimately, like, one of my top choices. Yasmine Affes [00:08:56]: So I was, like, it's okay if I just apply to one school this cycle. I can apply to much more. And the high school is extremely competitive. Like, I was not thinking I was gonna get in the first time, especially only limiting myself to one school. For the students listening, I recommend applying to, like, 7 to 9, but really truly doing your research on every program and every single requirement. Because a lot of schools, if you don't meet all of the requirements, they don't even look at your application. So it's super important to do your research and take time. And I felt like giving all of my time and energy into one school definitely upped my chances, but also, like, limited myself as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:33]: Now every student goes through a transition and you go through undergraduate, you're taught in a specific way. You get used to that way as you go through that experience. And then you go to grad school. And in grad school, it's very different, especially being in a clinically based program, very different model of education, learning, etcetera. So there is that transition of being able to make that jump from undergraduate to graduate and being able to find success in that. So talk to me about what you had to do. What did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success as you entered into the program? What have you had to do to maintain that success as you've gone through the program thus far? Yasmine Affes [00:10:16]: Yeah. Grad school is a different beast. Everyone tells you it's so much harder than undergrad, but you truly don't understand until you're in it. And I struggled a lot my 1st semester. I was failing exams. I was not confident in myself. I thought, oh my god. Like, I'm the only one in my class who failed this. Yasmine Affes [00:10:34]: Like, I'm not cut out for PA school. But at the end of the day, these are the topics we're truly interested in. Like, this is the medicine. This is things that are helping people. And in the future, we will need this knowledge no matter what. So I just changed up my study tactics, and I failed a class my 1st semester, which was really scary. But since then on, I I never failed again. I found my groove, and I think it helped me learn, like, oh my god. Yasmine Affes [00:11:01]: This is really serious, and I need to put more effort into finding a way that works for me to study. But, wow, grad school is so difficult. I've finally found my way, and I think right now I'm doing really well, and I only accredit it to my failures on the past. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]: And sometimes you have to have those stumbles, those failures along the way. And sometimes that's difficult because students that go to graduate school, sometimes they had smooth sailing in undergrad, did really well, didn't have any stumbles in there, and then they get to graduate school. And then that confidence, that imposter syndrome sets in, and you feel like, should I be here? Am I cut out for this? Is this really what and you gotta tell that brain of yours to just shut up and be able to keep moving forward because, like you said, you found your groove. It may take a little bit of time and figuring out, okay, what do I have to do different in this type of education versus what I had to do as an undergrad? Yasmine Affes [00:12:03]: Yeah. And for our program, we have a learning specialist that also works with the medical students at U of M. So she will tell you what to change up and help you along the way as well. We have a great faculty who will support you along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:17]: So one of the other things that I know that you did, you you were very involved as an undergraduate student. And then as you got into your work here in the PA program, you decided to get involved with the Michigan Academy of Physician Associates. You became a class representative. You got involved, with the public relations committee. You did a number of things, which I'll have to say, probably should not be a surprise with how involved you were as an undergraduate student. But that's good because I've talked about in the past that it's important for your future success to be able to not only focus on the academics, because that's why you're here, but to create that network for yourself and build other opportunities. But now you ran and you are the president-elect for the student academy with the American Academy of Physician Associates. Talk to me about this position that you now are in and what you're going to be in as you become the president of the student academy and why you decided that you wanted to get involved at that national level? Yasmine Affes [00:13:19]: So I was extremely involved at the state level. I was going to the MAPPA summit, which is our Capitol Hill day, advocating for bills that PAs should be included in. We're not trying to increase the scope of practice in any type of way, but I think it was we were left out of because our profession is still so new. But we talk about the bills with the legislators and they're like, yeah. Like, I don't know why you're not in this. It's like very basic. So it was a learning experience because it sounds so scary to talk to a legislator, but they're just people. They're just like us, and they absolutely love to hear from their constituents. Yasmine Affes [00:13:52]: So I thought that was a really impactful experience. And then we actually brought a legislator in to speak to our program, and I felt like I was getting a lot of leadership and experience through Michigan Academy of Physician Associates. And then Kyle, one of my classmates, he is our leadership and advocacy chair in our student society, and he brought in our student adviser for the student academy...
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From Graphic Design to Digital Marketing: Caroline Rathbun's Graduate School Journey
11/04/2024
From Graphic Design to Digital Marketing: Caroline Rathbun's Graduate School Journey
Graduate school is more than just an extension of your undergraduate education. It’s an intricate journey that demands dedication, strategic planning, and a deep understanding of one's personal and professional goals. In a recent episode of the "Victor's in Grad School" podcast, host sat down with , a communication and digital marketing specialist, to discuss her path from undergraduate studies to a successful career in digital marketing. Caroline’s story is both inspiring and enlightening for anyone considering or currently navigating through graduate school. The Decision to Pursue Graduate School Caroline’s journey began with an undergraduate degree in design and visual communications from the University of Michigan Flint. Like many graduates, she was in the process of figuring out her career aspirations. While she appreciated her field, she realized that graphic design alone didn’t fulfill her professional ambitions. This epiphany led Caroline to leave her first job and venture into freelancing, allowing her to explore different facets of the communication field. It was through freelancing, especially her projects with prominent organizations in Flint, that she discovered her passion for digital marketing and social media management. Recognizing the shift from traditional to digital media, she decided it was time to pursue a master's degree in strategic communications to advance her career. Choosing the Right Graduate Program Selecting a graduate program is a pivotal step. Caroline's decision to enroll in Michigan State University’s strategic communications master’s program was influenced by several factors. She conducted thorough research, prioritizing programs that offered a robust curriculum and flexibility. Michigan State’s online program stood out for its reputation and comprehensive course offerings, and it also allowed her to manage her studies alongside her professional responsibilities. Caroline emphasized the importance of aligning the program with one’s learning styles and personal commitments. She recognized that an online program suited her better due to her tendency to lose focus in traditional classroom settings. The flexibility to learn at her own pace was a game-changer. Transitioning to Graduate School The transition to graduate school can be daunting. However, Caroline found that having a clear goal and purpose made the shift smoother. She approached graduate school with a focused mindset, aware of the sacrifices she would need to make, such as setting aside dedicated study time and balancing work and studies. Caroline stresses the importance of self-awareness in understanding one's learning and research methods. For her, project-based work was more effective than rote memorization and testing. This self-understanding helped her choose a program that matched her strengths, thereby enhancing her chances of success. Maximizing the Graduate School Experience Engagement and intentionality were key factors in Caroline’s success. Despite the online nature of her program, she made it a point to stay connected and engaged with her coursework and classmates. She approached discussion boards with genuine interest, contributing meaningfully rather than merely fulfilling requirements. Throughout her graduate journey, Caroline was proactive in applying her learning to real-world situations. For instance, a course on crisis communication proved invaluable when she found herself implementing a crisis communication plan during the COVID-19 pandemic at Kettering University. Graduate School's Impact on Career Caroline’s graduate education significantly impacted her career path. The skills she acquired, especially in strategic communication and digital marketing, were directly applicable to her roles post-graduation. Her current position at the University of Michigan Flint involves mass communication, digital signage, and strategic engagement with the campus community—tasks that her master’s program prepared her for. Courses she once questioned—like crisis communication—became unexpectedly relevant, showcasing the importance of a diverse and comprehensive curriculum. Advice for Aspiring Graduate Students For those considering graduate school, Caroline offers valuable advice: start by deeply understanding yourself. Recognize your study preferences, professional goals, and life circumstances. Choose a program that aligns with your strengths and accommodates your lifestyle. Planning is crucial. Envision the next few years of your life and anticipate potential challenges. Graduate school often coincides with significant life events, so being prepared can help manage unexpected hurdles and keep you on track to achieve your academic and professional goals. Caroline Rathbun’s journey from an undergraduate student uncertain about her career path to a successful digital marketing specialist is a testament to the transformative power of graduate education. Her story underscores the importance of self-awareness, strategic planning, and proactive engagement in achieving success in graduate school. For anyone considering this path, Caroline’s insights provide a valuable roadmap to navigate the complexities of advanced education and emerge victorious in your professional endeavors. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. This journey is all about the graduate school hopes, dreams that you have for yourself and the things that you can do to be able to find success in that journey. And I say journey because it is a journey. Every one of you is on a journey that is very unique to who you are, and it's so important to understand that it is going to be different for every person. However, there are things that you can do right now, whether you're in graduate school or not, to be able to set yourself up for success and to do things even while you're in graduate school to find even greater success, to help you to be able to take the most out of that experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]: That's what this podcast is all about. This podcast is about helping you to be able to find success in this journey. And that's why every week, I bring you different people with different experiences that have done different things, but they've all done one thing that is similar. They all went to graduate school. Now, the graduate school journey that they were on is gonna be different than the one that you're on, but they still had to do things to find success in their own journey. And so I hope that in all of these conversations that we have, you've got some paper out, you've got your pen out, you've got some some you've got your listening ears open to be able to help you to take some tools for your toolbox and be able to prepare you well. Today, we got another great guest with us. Caroline Rathbun is with us today, and Caroline is the communication and digital marketing specialist for the division of student affairs at the University of Michigan Flint, and she has her own journey of doing her undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, but then leaving and going to Michigan State University for a master's degree in strategic communications. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]: We're gonna talk about that journey today, and I'm really excited to have her here. Caroline, thanks so much for being here. Caroline Rathbun [00:02:29]: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about this. It's a fun opportunity. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here as well. And I guess first and foremost, I wanna go back in time. I said you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, and you did that undergraduate degree in design and visual communications. Caroline Rathbun [00:02:49]: Correct. Yep. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:50]: And then you went off, you did some work. And during that work life, you you started to get those professional experiences. But sometime in the first few years, you got the inkling that you wanted to do something a little bit different. You wanted to go a little bit further, and you wanted to go to graduate school. So bring me back to that point. What made you decide that you wanted to go to grad school? Caroline Rathbun [00:03:14]: Yeah. So, I mean, after my time at U of M Flint, I still felt like I was still kind of in that figuring it out phase. I had attained my degree. I was ecstatic about that. I honestly never thought I was a person that was gonna go beyond maybe even an associate's degree. So the fact that I had earned a bachelor's degree was, it was big for me. So after a couple years just kind of out in the workforce, I realized pretty quickly that I didn't wanna exclusively do graphic design. As much as I loved the field and the design aspect of it, I just I wanted more. Caroline Rathbun [00:03:42]: I wanted to use my brand in a different way than just design. So I left my first job out of college, and I set out on my own as a freelancer. And I had a great opportunity to work for some really awesome business and organizations in Flint. I got to do some freelance work for the Krim Fitness Foundation, Redwood Restaurant Management Group, Sky Point Ventures, a lot of different groups. And during that time, I did some graphic design work, but that's kind of what introduced me into some more of the digital marketing side of things, the social media management, and just a little bit more into the communications field. So that's really what kind of sparked that interest and understanding that I think in order for me to get to that next level, I wanted to find a program that was really kind of on the cutting edge in the beginning of this transformation we were seeing from your traditional print media marketing to the digital side. So looking into programs, I found that Michigan State had, the strategic communications master's program, and I grew up a Michigan State fan, so that was kind of a plus. But also Michigan State has a really great reputation for their communications fields and degrees, so that was a huge selling point. Caroline Rathbun [00:04:45]: And it was fully online. So I knew at that time I was gonna be going back into a full time job after kind of doing some freelancing for a while. So I wanted something that allowed me to have some flexibility to be able to go at my own pace with earning this master's while I was still trying to figure out a lot of my early career goals and ambitions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:02]: So you you talked about the fact that you did a little bit of research, and you were trying to find a program that had specific aspects to it, and you found that Michigan State was that program for yourself. Bring me back to that point of the research that you were doing. What were you looking for in a program, and what were some of the linchpins? And you kinda talked a little bit about this already, but what were some of those linchpins that made Michigan State outweigh other schools? And what were some of the other things that you were considering when you were looking at programs side by side? Unless it was just one program that you ended up saying it was it's only this program. Caroline Rathbun [00:05:39]: Yeah. It kind of ended up being the one program, but it was more so that it was kind of the timing of it. I while I was a little bit impulsive to do to apply for grad school, I applied pretty late in the application process, but because it was a newer program, they were happy to accept me kind of later on in the stage. I looked into some other programs a little bit once I kind of understood that was the area I wanted to focus in. But this one really just had, I think, the most robust offerings. And with it being an online program, that was just a huge thing for me because I knew I wasn't gonna have the time to be going into classes. And whether that be commuting to another school or if I was still staying local, finding somewhere nearby that offered what I was looking for fully. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:21]: Now making a transition into graduate school is always a transition, and it's challenging in its own way because you're going from the way in which you've been educated as an undergraduate student and the expectations in graduate school are different and sometimes much more challenging, and faculty are going to expect more of you in many different ways. So talk to me about that transition because you were able to find success in going through graduate school. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into graduate school? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school program? Caroline Rathbun [00:07:00]: Yeah. I think going into graduate school versus starting your undergraduate, it's just a completely different mindset, at least that I went into it with because like I said before, I was very unclear on what I wanted to do for a long time. You know, I started off at Mott Community College, transferred over to U of M Flint. And at that time, I was just just figuring out a lot of who I was even as a person. And by the time I made it to that grad school stage, for me, it was the shift that like this was for me in my goals. What, you know, I was able to be in more of a focus program that was meeting the the goals that I had as a professional and learning the things that I wanted to learn. So I think that helped a lot and just reframing my mindset because I think a lot of times in undergrad, you have to take a lot of classes that may not interest you or there's more distractions just socially and things like that. So that was a big thing too. Caroline Rathbun [00:07:45]: It's just shifting my mindset to understanding the sacrifices I would have to make as a graduate student, knowing I'd have to set aside dedicated time to work on this, to focus on this. And and that was another thing. I just know that I was more successful in my undergrad when I had online classes than I did in person because I would tend to not want to always attend my classes regularly. So that was another big thing for me was just knowing that I could do it at my own pace. I could set kind of my own class schedule, and I think that's important for people when they're looking into a program to understand that that about myself. I know even throughout a program through a longer semester, I was diagnosed at a young age with ADHD. I tend to lose focus, lose intention, get distracted. So it was just a lot of work for me to remember to maintain that and why I was doing that and bringing myself back to it. Caroline Rathbun [00:08:31]: You know, I'm taking out these loans. I'm gonna have to pay them back. I need to make sure I'm making that worth it worth the time, and I'm getting the most out of this experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:39]: So you talked about taking the most out of this experience. Talk to me about what you did during graduate school to do just that. Caroline Rathbun [00:08:46]: Yeah. I really, I really tried to make note. It being online, you're not gonna have the same experience as an in person where you're gonna be talking to people in classes or just seeing people around the hallway. But I wanted to make sure that I still felt some connection towards the school and towards the university. So just trying to make sure I was very engaged in my classes. A lot of times online, you have to do your typical standard question boards, you would talk to 2 people, not just going in and doing it just to go through the motions, but trying to be very intentional and mindful just about my approach in the classes and how I communicated with people. And even with the classes that may not have been a peak interest to me, just trying to understand that there is a reason that they want me to take the class. There's a reason that I'm here. Caroline Rathbun [00:09:27]: I am going to try to it may not be the one that interests me the most, but I'm going to engage with it and try to to understand why it's something that I should be learning throughout my grad school journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:37]: Now you did finish up your degree, and you went off back into the workforce and now you're here at the University of Michigan Flint in a new role. And I guess as you look back to your graduate school experience and you think about the work that you're doing on a daily basis, how do you feel that your graduate degree helped prepare you not only for the work you're doing right today, but the work you've been doing since graduate school? Caroline Rathbun [00:09:59]: I think I look at so much of the stuff I learned during that time and I apply it on a daily basis. I'm communicating out to the campus on a mass level. I'm sending out email communications and putting things out on our digital signage. So that's a big part of it is understanding the brand voice, making sure I'm aligning with the brand standards of the university, and just understanding my audience and the target audience that I'm trying to get to and reach to. So that's a big thing. You know, I've only been in this role for about 2 months now. But just trying to bring a lot of the strategy side to it and the intentional side of using the information we can collect, whether it's data points from how students are communicating, engaging with our material, or just seeing how students are around campus, understanding what their needs are. And a lot of that in my master's program was just really trying to use data and research in areas like that to better understand what your audience needs. Caroline Rathbun [00:10:49]: And so when we're communicating or marketing to them, we are making sure our message is being heard, and it's being heard to the right people. So I use a lot in a day to day basis. And even beyond that, you know, like I was saying, one of the classes that I took during my master's was crisis communication. And at the time, I didn't really I was like, I don't really understand why I need to take this. I'm not gonna be in a crisis communication type team. Lo and behold, right when I'm about to graduate, COVID happens. I'm working at Kettering University on their communications and marketing team, and we had to implement crisis communication plan on a whim. And thankfully, I had that knowledge from my program that helped me to be able to build the foundation of everything that we needed to put out throughout campus while we were dealing with everything that was unfolding with the pandemic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:30]: Now, as you look back at your graduate education and you think about other individuals, other people that are thinking about graduate school, what are some tips that you might offer those students that might help them to find success sooner? Caroline Rathbun [00:11:45]: I think it starts while you're in your undergrad. If that's something you are remotely considering, really trying to take that time to understand yourself. Understand your study methods, your learning mess methods, your research methods, because that's really what will set you up for success once you move to graduate school. And also understanding, you know, I have a different learning style than most people. I am a very visual learner, and I knew that if I was to go into a program where it was gonna be a lot of memorizing text and repeating literature and things like that, I would I probably wouldn't find the same excess success. I I succeeded more...
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Mastering Graduate School and YouTube Fame: Lessons from Dan C. Bearded
10/28/2024
Mastering Graduate School and YouTube Fame: Lessons from Dan C. Bearded
Transitioning from one career path to another is never simple, but for some, it can lead to opportunities that were never originally envisioned. , also known as , a middle school teacher turned YouTube content creator and keynote speaker, personifies the winding journey of career transformation aided by graduate education. This blog post dives deep into the enriching conversation between Dr. Christopher Lewis and Dan C. Bearded, exploring the roles of education, passion, and unexpected avenues in finding success. The Initial Leap: Choosing Graduate School From Classroom to Administration Dan started his educational journey by earning an undergraduate degree at the University of Michigan Flint. He began his career as a middle school teacher and quickly became known for his effectiveness, which led to several leadership roles within his school. His exemplary performance prompted his administration to encourage him to pursue a path in school administration, including becoming a principal. Deciding on a Program Catering to his full-time teaching schedule and family life, Dan chose a master's program at the University of Phoenix due to its flexible, hybrid model. This allowed him to pair online coursework with one-on-one mentorship within his community. The arrangement was a perfect fit for his hectic lifestyle, encompassing work, coaching, and family responsibilities. Navigating Graduate School: Tips for Success Making the Transition Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school required Dan to adjust several aspects of his life. For Dan, this meant honing his organizational skills and becoming relentless about meeting deadlines. The independence and focus required in graduate school were a stark contrast from his undergraduate experience, which involved much collaboration with a core group of friends. He stresses that the key to his success was his commitment to his goals and his ability to remain disciplined despite his packed schedule. Choosing the Right Specialization Dan's first master's degree focused on administration. However, upon completing his coursework and observing the day-to-day realities of administrative roles through shadowing, he realized that it was not where his true passion lay. Instead, he pursued a second master's degree in curriculum development, aligning more closely with his interest in educational engagement and helping teachers better reach students. Embracing Unforeseen Opportunities The Birth of a YouTube Channel Dan’s commitment to education and his knack for engaging with people led him to start a YouTube channel centered around an entirely unrelated topic: beard care. This alternate pathway began to gain traction, eventually leading him to take a hard look at his professional options. Recognizing the rising success of his YouTube channel, Dan faced a critical decision whether to continue in his traditional career path or fully embrace this unique opportunity. Leveraging Educational Skills in a New Domain Surprisingly, Dan found that the skills he developed during his graduate education were incredibly transferable to his new line of work. His curriculum development master's degree proved invaluable as he created unique content about beard care techniques, which later became pivotal when training barbers at expos. The organizational and administrative skills he gained helped him manage the logistics and inevitable challenges that came with a growing online presence and business venture. Advice for Prospective Graduate Students Prioritize Passion Dan strongly believes that education is never wasted. He advises prospective students to find their passion and choose programs that align with their natural strengths. According to Dan, "Following passion fuels success," and he encourages others to be open to unexpected turns that their paths may take. Flexibility and Adaptation Choosing the right program that fits individual schedules and learning styles is crucial. For Dan, this meant selecting a hybrid program that allowed him to balance his multiple responsibilities. He emphasizes that being adaptable and having a focused, relentless approach toward meeting educational goals played a vital role in his journey. The Value of Education In Dan’s words, nobody regrets their education. Whether you stick to your initial career path or pivot to a completely new direction, the skills and knowledge gained through graduate education are irreplaceable assets that support lifelong success. Conclusion: The Ever-Lasting Impact of Education Dan C. Bearded’s story illuminates the life-changing power of education, even when it paves the way to unexpected destinations. Graduate school equipped Dan with the skills and credentials that have helped him thrive in various avenues, from middle school classrooms to barbershop expos. His journey demonstrates that no matter where life takes you, a solid educational foundation provides invaluable tools for navigating the complexities of any career. So whether you’re contemplating graduate school for career advancement or personal growth, know that the investment in education will forever be a stepping stone towards achieving your greatest potential. TRANSCRIPT Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Louis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I'm really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, we are on a journey together. And I say journey because it is a journey that you're on. Every person that's thinking about graduate school, going through graduate school, getting ready to be done with graduate school, no matter what it is, you're going on a journey. There's a journey and a goal and a vision that you've set for yourself as you move forward, and you're looking to be able to move in a certain direction. Now sometimes that direction goes in a straight path. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: Sometimes it's a little circuitous, but you never know. But this podcast is all about helping you find success in that journey. And how do we do it? Well, if this is your first show, we do it through conversations, conversations between you and I, but all but even better, conversations with others that have gone to graduate school to help you to find success in your own journey. So as we walk into every episode, I give you an opportunity to meet somebody new, somebody that's gone to graduate school, has learned many things along the way, and are sharing those learnings with you. So I encourage you to get out your pen and paper, get ready to gain some insights that can help you in this journey because we've got another great guest today. Dan Kaman, otherwise known as Dan C. Bearded, is with us today. And Dan did his own graduate school journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: He went off, did his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, and then went on from there to go and become a teacher. And then at some at one point, he made a decision. He was Dan went, got a graduate degree. I'm really excited to have Dan on the show to share his journey with you. Dan, thanks so much for being here today. Dan C. Bearded [00:01:59]: Absolutely. It's an honor. Thank you for the invite. That was a a really cool email to receive, to be honest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:04]: Well, we got introduced because you were just named one of the Flint and Genesee groups 40 under 40. Congratulations. Dan C. Bearded [00:02:12]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:13]: Really excited to be able to talk to you about your journey. And and one of the things that I love being able to do is turning the clock back. I wanna turn the clock back in time. I said that you did your undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan Flint. And going through that undergraduate degree, you decided to become a teacher, ended up going off, becoming a middle school teacher, working with kids and teaching them history. And at some point in that journey that you went on as a teacher, you made a decision to continue your education. Bring me back to that point and talk to me about what was going through your head. What made you decide you wanted to continue and get that graduate degree? Dan C. Bearded [00:02:49]: Yeah. And it actually was never a plan or or a goal of mine. I thought I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be a coach, and that was kind of the end of it. And so I started teaching, got a job right outside of graduating, and it was at the school that I had went to, and it was the dream. It was going really well. And in education, you find out when you do very well, they want to kinda move you up in the in the ladder, up in the system. And so pretty early on, I was, like, named a team leader, then I was the tech chair for our school and all this stuff. Dan C. Bearded [00:03:20]: And then, eventually, the administration kind of was like, hey. We would really like you to pursue a path in administration. We think you'd be great at it. And I was like, okay. Awesome. You know, more money, more influence in this umbrella to help as many people as possible. So I decided originally that I was gonna go to be a teacher leadership is the name of it, but essentially for administration. And so I wanted to to be a principal. Dan C. Bearded [00:03:43]: I was teaching full time. I was coaching full time and had a young family at the time. So I had to find something that was gonna be possible and work for me. And that was pretty much the start of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:53]: So every person goes through a little bit of a their own journey as they're figuring that out and they're saying, okay, yeah, I wanna do this graduate degree, but there's a lot of different options. There's a lot of options out there, a lot of different schools that teach in different ways. And talk to me about what you went through when you were whittling down that list for yourself, when you were looking and saying, you know what? Here's the schools that I'm considering. This is what I'm looking for in the schools. And and what brought you to that final decision of attending the University of Phoenix? Dan C. Bearded [00:04:25]: Yeah. Great question. And and that was something that was very important to me because, to be honest, I didn't think it was possible with teaching full time, with being a coach, and I was coaching all year round. Pretty much every single day of the year, I was doing private lessons. I was tutoring. I mean, I had a really full schedule, but I did like the concept of being able to become a principal. And so I tried to look in every angle I possibly could, and I found out that online was gonna be my best option. But I also found out I wasn't exactly your traditional student. Dan C. Bearded [00:04:57]: Fun fact that when I interviewed for my first teaching job, I let them know that my first six credits of college at U of M Flint, I failed all six of them. I actually had to take a study skills class to learn how to study because high school came very easy to me. I never really studied, never really tried, did very well. Went to college, assumed it was the same thing, and everybody told me the rules, like, 3 hours of studying for every hour of classwork. And I was like, oh, no way. They they don't know me. Well, they were right. I was entirely wrong, and I wasn't in love with the process of being a student. Dan C. Bearded [00:05:29]: So I got through college. I did did fine, did did well, but the idea of pursuing that for another 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years was not a thought that I was gonna entertain. It just was not my thing until I found the University of Phoenix, and I started talking with them. They had a program that was kind of hybrid where I could work online, but also pair with, like, teacher leaders in my area. And so a lot of my classwork was I actually went to another middle school teacher a couple of times a week, and we worked together 1 on 1 for most of my first master's degree. And it paired with online testing and online papers, and and it was just kind of the perfect relationship for my learning style, but also my schedule at the time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:14]: So you made that transition into your master's degree as you started talking about some of the things that you had to do in your master's degree to find success. But talk to me about there is that transition that you go through. And going from undergraduate work where you're being taught in a certain way to going into graduate work, it's a very different style of teaching, learning, and skill set that you need to find success. So talk to me about that transition for yourself. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And What did you have to do throughout your program to maintain that success? Dan C. Bearded [00:06:50]: Absolutely spot on. The learning was entirely different from my undergrad. My undergrad, it was kind of figuring out what I wanted to do. I originally went, like I said, and failed all 6 classes while I was in a degree that I wasn't interested in. I originally went for, essentially, radiation. I wanted to either be a radiation tech. I I didn't know what I wanted to do, and we had a family friend that owns a large company and said, hey. You get this degree. Dan C. Bearded [00:07:14]: I'll give you this job. I was like, awesome. And then turned out I didn't really relate to what I was learning. And so I couldn't get attached to it. So I was coaching in college and was like, I really enjoy this, but I can't make a career right off of coaching with similar teaching. So then I went into that. That was very nice. The biggest difference for me with the transition is in my undergrad, I kind of had a core group of friends and colleagues and classmates, and we all kind of got through it together. Dan C. Bearded [00:07:40]: We went through the classes. We talked about the professors. We talked about what credits we needed. We kind of had each other that we traveled with. And then transitioning into graduate school, for me at least, it was very individual. I didn't have that same kind of core. I didn't have that same kind of group. So my key to success was shifting my organization and being relentless with not having options. Dan C. Bearded [00:08:04]: If I had something that was due, if I had a project that I needed, if I had a meeting, it wasn't the case of how do I get this done, when do I get this done. It's I will get this done by that time no matter what. And my biggest transition again was just that being an individual rather than having kind of an undergrad, a very clear path. Hey. This is what you're gonna do. This is what's going forward. I was almost more driving myself and leading, but also was with something that was very particular to the skills that I was wanting to pursue and what I was wanting to learn about. So if I had to look at, like, my engagement level, my master's, both things. Dan C. Bearded [00:08:41]: I I went for a second master's degree was very detailed and very engaging because it was only about the exact things that I wanted to use those degrees for, and I loved that a lot. It it suited me so well even and I had a great undergrad experience, but the concept of my masters suited me even more so. Dan C. Bearded [00:09:00]: So talk to me about the second masters now because I know that you got the one masters, and some people say that's enough. Don't wanna go any further than that. Don't wanna get a doctorate. Don't wanna get another master's. I just wanna be done and keep moving with my career. You decided after finishing 1, a little bit after to get a second master's degree. Talk to me about what was going through your head at that point. And what made you decide that you wanted to continue your education to be able to move forward? Dan C. Bearded [00:09:30]: Yeah. So kind of a 3 part storm that came together perfectly. One was I was working. I had a young family. On a teacher salary, kinda two sides to it, my first 5 years of teaching, we were on a pay freeze. So I was at the bottom step of the teaching salary. The only way I could earn more money within that job for my family was to not move up on the scale, but to move over with the education. So to be entirely honest, I saw that if I pursued more education, I would have more income. Dan C. Bearded [00:10:00]: So I did that. Another thing, this is not something I advise now looking back on it, but also I had student loans. And as long as I was a student, I could defer those student loans and not pay them. Now as a young twenties man that was trying to survive and get by on not the greatest salary in the world, that was enticing to me. But the real reason, the main reason I decided to pursue a second master's degree is at the end of my first master's degree where I wanted to be in administration, essentially a principal, I found out that that job and career did not suit my my strengths and my personality well. I think I would have done the job very well, but I believe my quality of life would not have been where I wanted it to be, and that was achieved by shadowing. Did all the classwork, did all the projects, all the studying. Once I actually got towards the end of it and it required hours to shadow different principals and different administrators, I realized what I loved about teaching, much of that was taken away on the administration side, and the things that I disliked about teaching were highlighted. Dan C. Bearded [00:11:03]: Now the skills I learned, the the actual trait of having that master's to my name, unbelievably valuable. I do not regret one second of it. But I knew I wanted to continue for the reasons I mentioned earlier. But I also knew I loved education. And my biggest focus was how can I have the greatest umbrella of influence over education? How can I help as many people as possible? So I then went into curriculum development. And I really liked the concept of when I taught, I did project based learning. I looked through the lens of engagement because I wasn't a great student myself. And I encountered a lot of teachers that were all a students, that were in love with learning, and oftentimes, they would miss the students that were not loving learning. Dan C. Bearded [00:11:45]: They would miss those students, and they would chalk it up to bad behavior. They'd chuck up these things and I would, like, kinda wipe my arms around and say, hey. That was me. I wasn't that engaged student. Think about teaching through this lens. And I really loved that concept of at least being able to give a little bit of perspective. And so I pursued the the curriculum development degree and absolutely loved it. And that would be my career right now if my YouTube channel and the other side of my life didn't start taking off at the exact same time to the point where I had some of the hardest decisions of my entire life, to the point where I'm not even a person that stresses. Dan C. Bearded [00:12:20]: And my wife, she handles all that for us, but I I love being kind of low key and mellow. I ended up going to a dermatologist at the end of my master's degree, my second one, because I had job offers. While my YouTube channel was taking off, I had this rash that broke out all over my leg, and I've never had that before. I went in. It was a stress rash. My body was not used to this level of stress, and making the decision to take a job and a contract with my master's degree or take this shot on this other side of life that has no blueprint. It became a very tough decision, but I absolutely loved especially my second master's degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:55]: So let's talk about that transition because like I said at the very beginning,...
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From First Generation to Success: Phillip Thompson’s Graduate School Journey
10/21/2024
From First Generation to Success: Phillip Thompson’s Graduate School Journey
In the latest episode of Victors in Grad School, we delve deep into the world of graduate education with , a seasoned community relations manager at the . As a staunch advocate for higher education, Phillip’s journey is both inspiring and enlightening. In this blog post, we'll expand on their conversation, reflecting on key takeaways and offering deeper insights into the graduate school experience. Choosing the Right Path: Phillip’s Decision to Pursue Graduate Education Phillip Thompson's trajectory toward graduate school wasn't immediately clear-cut. After earning an undergraduate degree in Economics from the University of Michigan Flint, Phillip explored various educational avenues. He considered law school, an MBA, and even dabbled in public administration courses. However, it was his passion for words and literature that ultimately led him to pursue a Master's in Liberal Studies. Phillip’s story underscores an essential point for prospective graduate students: the journey to selecting a graduate program is deeply personal and often non-linear. Choosing a field that genuinely interests you can be the difference between a fulfilling academic experience and one that feels like a chore. Transitioning into Graduate School: Success Strategies Transitioning into graduate school comes with its unique set of challenges, and Phillip's experience was no different. During his conversation with Dr. Christopher Lewis, Phillip emphasized the importance of self-reliance and adaptability. Unlike undergraduate education, where group projects and general education requirements are common, graduate education demands a higher degree of specialization and individual accountability. Phillip found that the structure of the Liberal Studies program, which required extensive reading and writing, suited his intellectual curiosities and work habits better than the group-centric MBA coursework. This individual-focused approach allowed him to delve deeper into subjects he was passionate about, demonstrating that finding your preferred learning style is crucial for graduate school success. The First-Generation Student Experience: Overcoming Challenges Being a first-generation college student, Phillip faced additional hurdles in navigating higher education. Without a familial roadmap, understanding the intricacies of academic administration, financial aid, and other bureaucratic hurdles fell entirely on his shoulders. Yet, his journey through graduate school was markedly smoother. Because he could focus on subjects that fascinated him, like literature, government, and history, the coursework felt less like an obligation and more like an opportunity. Phillip’s experience as a first-generation student highlights the importance of resourcefulness and self-advocacy. Building a support network of advisors, mentors, and like-minded peers can significantly ease this journey. The Real-World Application: Graduate Education and Professional Success Dr. Christopher Lewis explored how Phillip's graduate degree in Liberal Studies prepared him for his role as a community relations manager. Phillip explained that his broad academic training allowed him to approach problems from multiple perspectives, which is invaluable in community relations. Graduate education often equips students with more than just subject matter expertise; it provides critical thinking skills, exposure to diverse viewpoints, and the ability to engage with complex issues holistically. Phillip's role at the University of Michigan Flint requires him to interact with a wide range of people and address various community needs. His graduate education has enabled him to be more adaptive, empathetic, and effective in his professional endeavors. Tips for Prospective Graduate Students Towards the end of the podcast, Phillip shared invaluable advice for anyone considering graduate school: Understand the Time Commitment : Graduate programs require significantly more reading and in-depth study than undergraduate degrees. Be prepared to invest the necessary time. Choose the Right Learning Mode : Whether it's online, in-person, or a combination of both, find what suits your learning style best. Build Strong Relationships : Establish a good rapport with your advisors and professors. Their guidance can be instrumental in your success. Develop a Schedule : Align your coursework with your natural rhythms of energy and enthusiasm to maximize your productivity. Conclusion Phillip Thompson’s journey through graduate school is a testament to the transformative power of education. His story is a compelling reminder that finding the right path, while challenging, can lead to both personal and professional fulfillment. Whether you're a prospective graduate student or currently navigating your own graduate journey, these insights and tips can serve as a valuable guide to help you achieve your academic and career goals. For more information about graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint, visit . TRANSCRIPT (unedited transcript provided through CASTMAGIC Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always every week, you and I are on a journey together. I love being able to talk about this journey that you're on in either looking at grad school, going through grad school, getting done with grad school, wherever you are in this process. It is a process. It is a journey and it's an exciting one. And one that is so that should be an amazing opportunity, amazing experience for you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]: And part of the reason that this podcast exists is to help you along that journey, to help you find success from the very beginning. So no matter where you are in this continuum, where you are in this journey, this show is here to help you, to give you some tools, some thoughts, some perspectives on what others have done to be able to be successful in that graduate school journey. That's why every week I bring you different people, different people with different experiences that can provide you with the journey that they went on and some of the tidbits, some of the things that they learned along the way that can help you to build some tools for your own toolbox. This week, we got another great guest with us. Philip Thompson is with us today, and Philip is a community relations manager at the University of Michigan Flint. And Philip did his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint and then did a graduate degree degree with the University of Michigan Flint as well. So we're gonna be talking about his journey in going through that process for himself and get to know him a little bit better. Philip, thanks so much for being here today. Phillip Thompson [00:01:49]: Thank you for the invitation. I appreciate it. I'm honored that you would ask me to be on today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]: Well, it's my pleasure having you here. And I wanna go back in time because I know that every per every people, every person has a different reason for going to graduate school. And as I said, you did your undergraduate work in economics at the University of Michigan Flint. You could have gone on and got a graduate degree in economics, you could have gotten an MBA, you could have done a lot of different things. But at some point during that journey, whether it was right in undergrad or after a few years of working, you made a decision to go back to graduate school. Talk to me about that, and what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Phillip Thompson [00:02:29]: Yeah. So after my undergrad, it was a couple of years of working, and, of course, interesting story of mine is that of my mother's 3 children, I'm the only one that graduated from college. And so I kinda made her a promise that then if I were to complete my undergrad degree, I would eventually go back and get my master's. And, of course, she wanted me to go on and get my doctorate as well, but and I kinda semi promised that. But with that being said, I I I did promise to get the the master's degree. And so it was in part the fulfillment of a promise that I made to my mom to do it. And then, of course, I wanted it for myself as well. And that was kind of the motivating factors for me to go back and get my graduate degree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:14]: Now I've already said the fact that you got your bachelor's in economics. So there were other options that from what you chose and I'll get to that in one second. But you made the decision that you wanted to study liberal studies and you did that at the University of Michigan Flint. You could have done a master's in economics, you could have done an MBA, you could have done a lot of different things. Talk to me about that thought process of choosing a master in liberal studies degree versus something else. And what made you decide to study that area and especially study it at the University of Michigan Flint? Phillip Thompson [00:03:52]: Of course, when I got with my undergraduate degree, economics, a lot of my advisor was saying, hey, go to law school. This is the natural progression. There's a lot of people who when they get their their econ degree, they go straight to law school. That's probably the number one feeder program in the law schools is the econ program. And so they're saying, go get your law degree. You've got all the skills you need to do it. And I thought about it. I thought very seriously about it because there was a friend of mine who was about 10 years older than me, and he was getting his going through law school and just taking one class at a time. Phillip Thompson [00:04:24]: And he was very successful at what he was doing. He'd already had 2 master's degrees, and he was like, yeah, go to law school, you can do it. I had a cousin who's a couple years older than me, who was also going through law school. So I thought about that track, thought about the MBA as well. And I took about 9 credit hours in the MBA program and paused on that. I took some credit hours of masters in public administration, pause on that too. And then I started looking very seriously at the Liberal Studies program, and found it extremely fascinating, in part, because I love words. I'm a wordsmith. Phillip Thompson [00:04:57]: I just love words. And so the literature itself became really the driving force for me to do the Liberal Studies program because I love to read and I love words. I was like, this is more germane for me. It felt the most natural and organic for me to go through the liberal studies program, and and I couldn't have been more happy. I mean, I got some trans professors that I still keep up with and really, really found it really, really exciting and fulfilling on every account. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:25]: Now you just mentioned that you took some classes in the MBA. You took some classes in the masters of public administration, and you landed in liberal studies. Graduate coursework in the MBA is different than the MPA is different than the liberal studies. You're taught in different ways. The expectations are a little bit different, and in each of those, there are transitions that you have to go through, transitions in learning, transitions in expectations, be and and other aspects as well. So talk to me about transitions, and what did you have to do as you were transitioning into any of those individual classes, into the eventual masters in liberal studies to be able to, one, set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school experience? Phillip Thompson [00:06:13]: So the thing I discovered very quickly in the MBA program is that it's a lot of group work. And some people love group work, some people not so much. I'm in that latter group. I love groups, but I don't necessarily like group work. I tend to land on the merits of individual accomplishment. I'm better if I know that it's all on me. If I don't get it done, it's it's because I didn't get it done. In a group setting though, you have to rely on other people. Phillip Thompson [00:06:40]: And there's nothing wrong with that. It just seemed that, again, it was easier for me to rely on myself. And that's what I liked about the Liberal Studies program. It was easy to transition to that because all of the reading was on me, all of the writing was on me versus in the MBA program. If you're doing an accounting class or you're doing a business project and you're trying to figure out how you can maximize profits, it's 2 or 3 other people that you have to cooperate with. And sometimes that's good and sometimes not so much. But the liberal studies program, again, because of the words and because of this individual accountability that I placed upon myself. It just seemed to be so much more easier for me to excel at that program. Phillip Thompson [00:07:24]: The the master's of public administration was similar to liberal studies, but the material, I just didn't find it as fascinating as I did. The literature that I was reading in in liberal studies, very, very good stuff, but liberal studies just seemed to just open my mind up in all of these fascinating ways, you know, to talk about the history of America, the history of religion, the history of government, all of the things that just seem to just converge and they all just fascinated me. And so it was easy for me to, again, assimilate into that material, into that class work because I just found it so engaging. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:02]: Now you also mentioned that you were a 1st generation college student as an undergraduate student, a 1st generation college student as a graduate student as well. And with that comes its own challenges in understanding and being able to have the support to be able to get through those different experiences. As a 1st generation college student, as a graduate student, what were some of the challenges that you ran up against that you felt like you had to overcome? Phillip Thompson [00:08:31]: Well, I'm gonna tell you, I found graduate school to be much easier than undergraduate school. And I've talked to a lot of people who say the same thing, undergraduate, you've gotta take a lot of courses that you don't necessarily wanna take, but it's required of you. And then of course, being a first generation college student, I didn't know how to navigate through the system well, because I didn't have a precedence. Nobody could say, hey, you know, this is what you do. This is how you talk to your counselors. This is how you handle all of these things, financial aid. It was all on me to kinda figure it out. And, honestly, there were some semesters where I struggled in undergraduate. Phillip Thompson [00:09:07]: But in graduate school, because I'm taking only the classes I want to take, only the classes that really interest me, and the classes, of course. There's some core curriculum, of course, but after the core curriculum, I mean, you get to choose your own path in graduate school, and that's what I found to be much easier than undergraduate. So I think the hardest thing about graduate school is the thesis. I struggled, and, you know, because it's that whole overanalyzing perfectionism mindset that you you bring to that experience. And, of course, writer's block, all of it, you name it. But overall, the class work was much more easier than undergrad, because you get to choose what path you want to take. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:54]: You definitely do get to do that. And that's one of the things that I always tell students is that the nice thing about grad school is that you're not going to have all of those other gen ed requirements that you're going to be having to be forced to take as an undergraduate student that you can focus in on the things that you're most passionate about and and most interested in, and you can then jump in from there. Now seeing that you did a graduate degree in the master's in liberal studies, And you are, as I said, at the very beginning, a community, a community relations manager in the Flint area, working for the University of Michigan Flint, as you look back at the graduate degree, what you learned in that process. How do you feel that the graduate degree prepared you for what you're doing on a daily basis? Phillip Thompson [00:10:44]: There's no question. In a graduate program, while you're focusing on your passions, as you said so eloquently, you're also, you know, dealing with this whole broad spectrum of information that you have to be open to new ideas, new experiences, new people. And so I think the biggest thing that the the graduate program did is expose me to some areas in life and some thought processes that I had never given consideration to. And I think that is the biggest thing about it. You come you you leave away from grad school realizing that we come to the school or graduate school with some narrow parameters, but we leave out, you know, having broadened our scope of knowledge and our experiences. So I think the biggest thing is, again, you leave away with an appreciation for multiple perspectives on any thought and on any idea. Right? Because you have to develop an appreciation for those who agree and for those who disagree. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:49]: Definitely. And I love that because I think that for one of the things that any graduate degree should be able to allow for you to do is to broaden your own perspective, to understand not only yourself better, but to understand others better. And it can open you up to being able to then relate to others better and the work that you're doing. So, so I appreciate you sharing that. Now, as you think about your own graduate experience, the journey that you went on, what you learned along the way, and you think about students that are going through their own journey, that are thinking about going to graduate school, whether it be for a master's in liberal studies or something completely different. What are some tips that you might offer to those students considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner? Yeah. Phillip Thompson [00:12:36]: I think the one thing that any person considering graduate school, should deeply consider is the time commitment. There's going to be far more reading in graduate school than there was in undergraduate school. It's just no other way around it because you're a subject matter expert, so to speak, when you leave that program. So in order to become that, there is a serious amount of reading that's required. So I think it's just the the time commitment that you have to give to the program. And, of course, there's a minimum threshold in graduate school. Undergrad, you can get a c and pass the class. That's not the case in graduate school. Phillip Thompson [00:13:14]: It's a b or better. Right? There's there's no other way around. It's like you can't really half step in graduate school. So I think three things that I would say for those who are considering going back to graduate school is consider the time commitment that you have to give to reading. Number 2 is create a schedule that is most organic for you, your natural flows of energy and enthusiasm. So if you're taking a multimodal approach, if you got some online, if you got some in person, or if you've gone all in person, consider whether or not that works for you. Because some people do well in person, but don't do well online. So I would say, again, consider the time commitment, con consider the mode of your learning, which works best, which is most...
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Transitioning Careers: From Computer Science to Clinical Counseling with Zach Scott
10/14/2024
Transitioning Careers: From Computer Science to Clinical Counseling with Zach Scott
In the latest episode of Victors in Grad School, we sit down with , a graduate student at Oakland University studying Clinical Counseling. Zach’s educational and career journey offers a compelling story of transformation and introspection, making this episode a must-listen for anyone contemplating the value of following their passions, even if that means pivoting away from a well-established career path. From Computer Science to Counseling: A New Direction Zach Scott's journey is a prime example of how one's path toward fulfillment can often be winding and unexpected. After earning a bachelor’s degree in both English and Computer Science from the University of Michigan Flint, Zach entered the world of web development and computer science, where he spent several years. Despite the creative and intellectually stimulating nature of computer science, Zach found himself increasingly dissatisfied. "I wasn’t as enthused about it as I had been before," Zach reveals. It wasn’t just the isolated, anti-social nature of coding that contributed to his growing disillusionment; it was the deeper realization that he craved more meaningful interactions with people. The turning point came during the pandemic, when Zach engaged in frequent, deep conversations about job fulfillment and well-being with his colleagues. This experience illuminated his true call: to help others in a more direct and profound way through counseling. Choosing the Right Graduate Program Pivoting towards a completely new career is a monumental decision, one that demands thorough consideration and research. For Zach, the tipping point was a recommendation from his own therapist, who graduated from Oakland University. Unlike those who meticulously compare programs, Zach confesses he relied largely on his gut feeling. A significant factor was the philosophical approach to counseling that the faculty at Oakland University employs, catalyzing his decision to apply there. Dr. Christopher Lewis, the podcast host, emphasized the breadth of graduate programs available today, ranging from in-person to hybrid and fully online modalities. Zach opted for an in-person program to foster genuine connections with his peers and professors, something he feels is crucial for his own learning style and well-being. Transitioning Smoothly: Setting Yourself Up for Success Transitioning back into academia after a hiatus can be daunting, but Zach shares practical tips that smoothed his journey. One of his key strategies was starting slow: "My first semester, I only took one class," Zach explains. This allowed him to immerse himself fully in the course material without feeling overwhelmed, essentially easing him back into the rhythms of academic life. For those looking to emulate Zach’s success, he suggests embracing a slower pace, engaging deeply with the material, and finding a personal connection to your field of study. Instead of treating the curriculum as a mere list of requirements, see it as an opportunity to delve into subjects that truly ignite your passion. Leveraging Past Experiences Zach’s diverse academic and professional background has proven to be an invaluable asset in his new field. His English degree, centered around literary analysis, has refined his ability to discern deeper meanings and symbolic narratives in his counseling sessions. Zach’s computer science expertise equips him with strong problem-solving skills, enabling him to identify patterns and root causes, a crucial skill in psychotherapy. Building Connections: The Importance of Networking One of the standout pieces of advice Zach offers revolves around the necessity of building genuine relationships during your graduate studies. "Be friendly," Zach urges. Whether it’s classmates or professors, forming meaningful connections can profoundly enrich your academic experience. The friendships and professional networks you build can offer support, provide opportunities, and even lead to job prospects. Embracing Your Unique Path As Zach reflects on his past and looks to the future, he underscores the importance of trusting your own intuition and following your unique path. "It's okay to change your mind," he says, reassuring listeners that fluctuating between interests and making career pivots isn't a sign of failure, but a hallmark of personal growth. In closing, Zach’s journey from computer science to clinical counseling serves as a compelling reminder that graduate school isn’t just an academic endeavor but a deeply personal journey. By following one’s passions and remaining open to change, students can transform both their careers and their lives. For those pondering a return to academia, Zach Scott’s story encourages you to examine your passions closely and take the leap—your true calling may be just around the corner. TRANSCRIPT (unedited transcript made with help of CASTMAGIC) Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, work with you as you are going through this graduate school journey that you're on. You might be just at the beginning where you're just starting to think about putting that application in. You might be actually accepted and ready to get going. You could be in grad school and seeing that light at the end of the tunnel. No matter where you are, you are on a journey. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:44]: There are things that you can do to be able to be successful in the journey that you're on. Things that you can start right now. And every week I love being able to bring you different people, different people with different experiences that have gone through graduate school or are in graduate school. And they've had experiences that can help you to be able to better understand the experience that you're gonna be stepping in no matter what that journey may be. This week we've got another great guest. Zach Scott is with us. And Zach did his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint. He did a bachelor's degree in both English and computer science, and is now in a graduate program at Oakland University studying clinical counseling. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]: We're We're gonna talk about the journey that he has been on. And we're going to learn a little bit more about him as well. So I'm really excited to have him here today to be able to share his journey with you. Zach, thanks so much for being here today. Zach Scott [00:01:40]: Hi. Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:41]: I am really excited to have you here. And one of the things that I love doing as we start these conversations is really turn the clock back because I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint. And then after getting that bachelor's degree in English and computer science, you went out. You went out and you started a career. You started a career doing work in different types of work in computer science. And at some point, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to change paths. You wanted to pivot. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:18]: You wanted to move in a different direction, and you wanted to continue your education. Tell me about that point. And what made you decide that it was time to go to graduate school, and what made you decide that you wanted to completely change directions? Zach Scott [00:02:31]: After I finished my undergrad, I went and just got a bunch of jobs in computer science. I worked with mainframes, and I did a lot of web development. I've mostly been a web developer, and that work can be really creative and it can be really interesting work. But after a while, I just sort of noticed that I wasn't as enthused about it as I had been before. I think part of it was learning. When you start your career, you don't exactly know what in a career is fulfilling to you because you haven't had a lot of opportunities to try things, see what works, what doesn't. So you're kind of assuming, well, I'm gonna like this I think. I've liked everything I've studied, and you sort of plunge into it. Zach Scott [00:03:08]: And, again there's a lot of things I like about computer science, but something I started to notice was I wasn't really getting a chance to talk with people very much. I like interacting with people, and in programming it can be really antisocial. And when the, pandemic hit, everyone was just working from home. So I noticed I was spending a lot of time at work having meetings with people and saying, you know, is this job fulfilling to you? Like, how can we have, like, a more enjoyable atmosphere? And I was having a lot of conversations with people, and I started doing that more than writing code and working on technical problems. And as I was approaching my 30th birthday, I really did not feel very good. I was really I felt really, like, a bit aimless and a bit I just didn't think my work was really, energizing me. And I was listening to a talk by a a guy named James Hollis. He's a psychotherapist that I really respect. Zach Scott [00:04:02]: And he was sort of talking about the midlife crisis feeling and finding what you're called to do. And the way he framed it, I was like, yeah. I really need to, like, sit and consider this question. Like, it's not just going I'm not just going to fall into the thing that's meaningful for me. I have to reflect on it. And so I started reading into psychotherapy a lot because I've benefited from psychotherapy in a lot of really deep ways. And I just sort of had an epiphany. I was like, oh my god. Zach Scott [00:04:27]: I could do this. Like, there's I spend most of my days talking to friends and family members about life and and mental issues that we face and these types of things, and that's my favorite place to be. That's my favorite kind of conversation to have right now. So I was like, yeah. I can go back to school. I always have enjoyed studying. I study all the time just for fun. I like to read a lot. Zach Scott [00:04:50]: So it just sort of clicked for me. And I talked to my therapist. He told me that he went to Oakland, and so I applied for the program there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:58]: Well, you kind of answered my next question, which was there's lots of programs that are out there, and you could have applied for clinical counseling in a lot of different places, and you chose Oakland University. And it sounds like you were pushed to that through a recommendation from your own therapist and wanting to move into that. But were were there any other factors, any other things that you were looking for in a graduate school, and what you were trying to get out of that program that made you decide that Oakland was the right fit? Zach Scott [00:05:28]: Other people are gonna be completely different here. And this is going against conventional wisdom, but I don't shop around very much, honestly. I don't. I just don't. It stresses me out when I have a bunch of choices to pick from. I usually go with my gut, and I go with, like, I like the symbolic choice. So for me, it was like my personal therapist went here, and he was telling me all about faculty there. And some of the professors he told me about, I really liked what I was hearing, and I liked that they had a philosophical approach to counseling. Zach Scott [00:05:59]: And so I thought, okay. This is really first of all, it's not that far of a drive because I live in Ferndale right now. So it it I wanted it to be close so that I could visit in person. That was what was really important to me was being able to make it there in person. So I needed some place close, and I liked the idea that my own therapist could vouch for it. And I knew that no matter what other option, I if I shopped around, I wouldn't have, like, a personal connection to that place, and that was important to me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:25]: So as you decided to go back to school, as you transition from going from work and a number of years not being in school, it's definitely a transition as you enter back into, let's say, school mode. So talk to me about that transition and what you had to do to set yourself up for success at the beginning of the experience and what you've had to do throughout this experience to be able to maintain that success, especially as you have transitioned, 1, from being out of school for a while, but 2, transitioning into a program that is very different than English or computer science, and now studying something completely different. Zach Scott [00:07:08]: Yeah. First of all, this is just very practical, but I think one thing I did was my 1st semester, I only took one class. I took a single class. Everyone I talked to in the program was like, I'm taking 3 classes. I'm gonna take spring summer. I just wanna get this over with. I just wanna get this over with. I think if you're like me and you've been away from school for a while, I really recommend that. Zach Scott [00:07:29]: Well, I don't understand the rush. You know? Like, if you're just trying to start a career, I understand it's exciting and you wanna get through it, but I think it's a lot easier. You can do a lot better if you take a slow approach and find the rhythm of the program and sort of ease your way into it. So I only took one class, and what was nice about that was I could really give my all to that one class. So I did all the readings. I did all the assignments, like, right away. It was my only priority, and that worked really well for me. And when it comes to making a big switch, something that I think helped me a lot was I dove into the things that I thought were personally very interesting beforehand. Zach Scott [00:08:06]: I started reading about early psychoanalysis because that really fascinates me. So I was reading a lot of Freud, and I ended up falling in love with the works of Carl Jung. And so I walked in having a personal interest in the program. I followed the things that really energized me that I felt really resonated. And that way, I walked in feeling like, okay, I don't know. I didn't have a psychology undergrad. Everyone else did. Almost everyone in the program has a psychology undergrad. Zach Scott [00:08:40]: So I didn't have the same background, but I had a a personal connection with the material. And I was able to talk with people and compare their approaches to what I thought was interesting in all of this. And I was able to talk to professors and have really cool conversations about psychoanalysis and these types of things. So just diving into what you think is really interesting, I don't I didn't, you know, I didn't brush up on behaviorism and all of these things that I just I don't really find very interesting. The pro I also say that my program was I asked a question. I said, what should I do? I asked the director, what should I do before I show up? And he said, you don't really have to do we're gonna cover the basics, so don't sweat it too much. So I I didn't. I was like, I'll trust the program. Zach Scott [00:09:27]: I don't want to burn out, so I didn't dive in to everything. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:30]: Well, now you've been in the program for a little bit of time, and you got past that 1st term. You've been able to find success as you've moved along. And what have you had to do as you've continued in the program to be able to continue that success for yourself? Zach Scott [00:09:48]: This is something that I didn't really anticipate being so important, but when you get to grad school, everyone in grad school is nervous. Everyone is a little bit afraid to be there, and it's not gonna seem like it. But but I promise that everyone sitting there is really scared because it's a new environment, and they wanna prove that they're capable in all of this. Everyone's excited and nervous, and everyone is sitting there very scared to talk and probably looking at their phones before class because we're all so scared. And and one thing that's been really really crucial is pushing past that or observing that fear a little bit, working with it, and making connections with other students and with professors as people. You know, I guess if I wanna if if I was being a traditional career type person, I would call that networking. But to me, it's it's more than networking. It's like, what you don't wanna do is go to grad school and keep your head down, do the material, do the assignments, get out, and go try to find a job. Zach Scott [00:10:52]: I mean, you can. That's totally valid. But I think it becomes such a deeper experience if you can make connections with people and just start little conversations, ask people, how did you feel about that assignment? Or I started trying to get people together after class for little activities and just sort of starting a little social circle in my program so that as a cohort, we're all connected. And then you hear things like, oh, well, I've got a job opening where I work, and if you're interested, you know, it opens up the door for all kinds of things. If you're talking to your professors in an earnest way, you're not trying to win their favor or look like a great student or something. Just talking to them as people. Professors really like that, and you can get really good references there and other opportunities. But even beyond that, just go in being earnestly curious about everyone in the program and try to work with that scary voice that says, don't talk to anyone. Zach Scott [00:11:45]: Just just do a good job. That's been my favorite thing, and I know it's not like a traditional thing that a that a career counselor might tell you about, but be friendly. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:54]: Being friendly is definitely important, and especially that becomes even more important if you're well, I'm gonna say if you're in person, you definitely wanna be friendly because you're going to be seeing those people all the time. But even if you're not, you wanna be able to build those relationships. No matter if you're in in an in person program or if you are in a hybrid or a online program. Don't just sit there with your camera off and not getting to know the people. It's very easy to do if you're in an online or hybrid program, but you're going to take a lot more out of it if you're able to find some way to make those connections. And those tangible connections are going to allow you and help you to be able to get through the program and be more successful in the end. So I will be honest and say that the the graduate programs that I have been in for the most part, my master's degree was an in person program. I got to know every person in that program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:57]: My doctorate program was mostly in person as well. So but I know that since COVID, things have changed. And graduate programs, you you'll find a big mix right now. Zach Scott [00:13:07]: Yeah. And I look specifically for in person offerings because right now at Oakland, both are offered. I would say it's worth the drive if you can do it because there is just an engagement you find by being on campus and and a sort of organic connective aspect that you really just it's harder to do online, it's worth it to go to camp. I mean, it's a long drive kind of for me. It's like 30 minutes to 40 minutes. Like, I don't want to every day, but it really is something special. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:36]: So one of the things that I'm kind of interested about is as you've been going through this clinical counseling program, and you have a very different undergraduate background, a very...
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The Transformative Power of Education: Laurence Alexander's Path to Becoming a University Chancellor
10/07/2024
The Transformative Power of Education: Laurence Alexander's Path to Becoming a University Chancellor
Expanding Horizons Through Graduate Education Graduate school can be an enriching yet challenging journey that adds immense value to one's personal and professional growth. During a recent episode of Victors in Grad School, host Dr. Christopher Lewis engaged in an insightful conversation with , the Chancellor of the . Dr. Alexander shared his extensive educational journey, offering valuable advice for those considering or currently navigating graduate studies. Below, we delve into Dr. Alexander's story, the decisions that shaped his path, and the lessons he learned along the way. Initiating the Graduate Journey Dr. Alexander's academic journey began with an undergraduate degree in Drama and Communications from the University of New Orleans. His early exposure to journalism through the college newspaper spurred his interest in pursuing deeper knowledge and skills in the field. Despite the University of New Orleans not having a specific journalism program, the broader Communication curriculum and experiences on the college newspaper cemented his desire to pursue a specialized graduate program. Driven by the need to gain more in-depth knowledge in journalism, Dr. Alexander evaluated top programs across the nation, ultimately choosing the University of Florida due to their comprehensive fellowship package and the opportunity to work with Pulitzer Prize-winning editorialist, Dr. Buddy Davis. Transitioning to Law While pursuing his graduate studies in Journalism and Communications, an enduring interest in law, sparked during his undergraduate years, urged Dr. Alexander towards further education. His fascination with constitutional law and the judicial process fueled his decision to attend law school, aiming for a career covering courts with greater proficiency. Dr. Alexander's law school journey led him back to New Orleans, where he juggled work and part-time law studies at Loyola University before receiving an offer from Tulane University. At Tulane, he received a partial scholarship and experienced a top-notch education, sharpening his legal acumen. From Journalism to Higher Education Dr. Alexander’s career took an interesting turn as he transitioned from journalism to academia, influenced significantly by his mentor, David Womack. After serving as a senior fellow during his law school years, his passion for teaching grew. Pursuing academia provided Dr. Alexander with the opportunity to have a greater impact, merging his journalism and legal expertise. Moving through academic positions at Temple University and then the University of Florida, Dr. Alexander eventually recognized the need for a PhD to advance his academic administration career. This realization led him to pursue a doctorate at Florida State University under the mentorship of Dr. Joe Beckham, specializing in educational leadership and policy. Navigating Educational Transitions Transitioning between different educational stages—from undergraduate to master's, law school, and eventually a PhD—required Dr. Alexander to adapt and refine his approach consistently. Key to these transitions were the skills he developed early in life, such as goal-setting and methodical planning. He emphasized the importance of breaking down vast academic goals into manageable tasks, ensuring each step was carefully planned and executed. Leveraging Diverse Academic Backgrounds Dr. Alexander acknowledged that each educational experience—journalism, law, and doctoral studies—equipped him with unique skills crucial for his role as Chancellor. His background in journalism enhanced his understanding of media relations, branding, and internal and external communications. His legal training proved invaluable in logical reasoning, argumentation, and managing large volumes of information. Similarly, his doctorates' focus on leadership in higher education provided him with comprehensive insights into the complexities of university administration. Tips for Aspiring Graduate Students For those considering graduate school, Dr. Alexander advises a thorough self-assessment of motivations and goals. Understanding why you are pursuing further education can provide the necessary drive to overcome challenges. Evaluating practical aspects such as program affordability and accessibility and finding the right faculty to guide you can significantly enhance your graduate experience. Cultivating passion and grit remains essential, as these qualities sustain motivation through setbacks and tough times. Conclusion Dr. Laurence Alexander’s academic and professional journey offers a profound testament to the cumulative value of diverse educational experiences. His seamless blending of journalism, law, and academic administration underscores the importance of passion, strategic planning, and adaptability. Aspiring graduate students can draw inspiration from his story, understanding that each educational pursuit, though unique, collectively builds a robust foundation for future success. TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created with the help of CastMagic) Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you, and I call it a journey because it truly is a journey that you're on. You could be just starting to think about graduate school. You could be already you could have already applied to graduate school, gotten that acceptance letter, and and anxiously awaiting to go for your 1st day of class. You could be in graduate school right at the beginning, could be toward the end. But no matter where you are in this continuum, there are things that you can do to find success in that graduate school journey, and that's what this show is all about. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: This show is here to help you, to provide you with some tools for your toolbox, to give you some insights into the journeys of other people that have gone before you that have done graduate school, been successful in graduate school, and can offer you some insights into things that they had to do as they went through that for themselves. So I hope that with every episode, you're able to take something, something small, something big that you can then put into action right away to prepare yourself for the journey that you are embarking on. Today, we've got another great guest with us today. is with us today, and Dr. Alexander is the chancellor of the . I'm really excited to be able to introduce him to you to have you learn from his journey. Dr. Alexander, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:01:40]: Thanks, Dr. Lewis. Glad to be with you today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]: It is my pleasure having you here today. Love being able to kind of delve into this, and I'm excited to learn a little bit more about your journey as well. I know that for every person, there's that origin story. And there's that point in time where you find that you want to take your degrees to the next level. I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of New Orleans. And while you were there, you got that bachelor's degree in drama and communications. But at some point during that initial education, something awakened in you that made you decide that you wanted to go on, and you did go on. But let's go back in time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]: Talk to me about what was it initially that made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school? Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:02:27]: Well, thank you for that question. You're absolutely right. There was a moment in time when as I was going through my undergraduate years, I was also working at the college newspaper. In my senior year, I became editor of the newspaper. So I served for a year working as the as the editor in chief and with a staff of about 25 or 30 students. And we published a newspaper every week and with the help of a newspaper advisor, who was a full time faculty member. And he was a very influential person, I thought, because he ended up being a mentor to me for many years to come. But during that time, I guess I thought I was getting a good feel for beginning my journalism career in at the University of New Orleans, but it didn't have a journalism program specifically. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:03:19]: It had a broad based communications program that was heavily based in drama, theater, arts. And so I got some very practical courses in that program. A couple of them were journalism specific courses, but I wanted more in-depth study and practice of journalism. So I started looking at programs, graduate programs, that would provide me with the kind of experience that I would need, the kind of preparation I would need for a career in journalism. And I started looking at the top journalism programs in the nation that also had master's programs in particular. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:59]: So you made the decision to attend the University of Florida, and I'd love for you to talk to me about you you said you were looking at a number of different programs. You looked at those top programs. Walk me through that thought process for yourself as you were whittling down those choices. And what made you finally decide that the University of Florida was the right place for you? Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:04:19]: Well, there were a couple of other programs, you're right, that I was applying to, that I was looking at. I was based in New Orleans, my hometown. And, of course, I looked at Louisiana State University, which is a large research university, public university in the state of Louisiana, and I had a journalism program there for many years. I looked at programs in surrounding states, Arkansas, Mississippi. They happened to also be at major research universities that had major athletic programs in the, Southeastern Conference, which I did like football and basketball, and I watched a lot of it. So I heard of these schools. They, you know, the name brand resonated with me. But I also knew that the consensus top journalism program in the country was at Missouri. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:05:05]: And so I did apply to the University of Missouri. And and to my great happiness and surprise, I was accepted at Missouri. And I also applied at Florida. Florida was in the SEC. Several schools across the South I applied to, and I was accepted at Florida as well. And interesting though, with the Florida acceptance came an offer of a fellowship to study there. So an offer that came with some finances, some financial support to go to graduate school there. Florida was also pushing that they were one of the top schools in the nation, and it was certainly and still is. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:05:43]: But it also had some other appealing aspects to it in addition to a fellowship. And during the recruitment process, I did let them know I was considering going to Missouri, and and I really was kind of focused on going to the top school. And then about a week later, they called back and said that they had an additional scholarship that would basically take care of other expenses that I would have. So, I mean, it became an offer I couldn't refuse. The financials were you can't turn down essentially a full ride scholarship to graduate school at Florida. But I did add one other condition that they met, and that was I asked they had a Pulitzer prize winning editorialist on their faculty, and I wanted him to be my supervisor. And so I asked, is it possible that I could also get doctor Davis, Buddy Davis, to be my adviser? And they spoke with Buddy, and he came back and said, of course, yes. He'd be my adviser. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:06:38]: So I got a lot of what I wanted and what I was seeking at the time. Although I didn't go to Missouri, I didn't have any regrets. I got a first class education at at Florida and enjoyed my graduate education there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:49]: Now I know that was not the stop of your graduate education. You went on, and after finishing the master of arts degree, you something else must have awakened during that journalism and communications degree that you decided that you wanted to go to law school, which is a whole another completely different type of education. And so talk to me about that. What made you decide after thinking that you were gonna be starting this journalism career to kind of move in a little bit different direction to then going to law school? Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:07:22]: For sure. And the law school interest started while I was an undergrad as well because there was another strand going on. I kind of I guess I I took a lot of courses in political science. Several of those courses focused on constitutional law and civil liberties and so in the judicial process. There was a professor there. I'll mention him Professor Ed Heck. He was a scholar and he had done his work on, Justice Brennan and the Supreme Court. And he was dynamic. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:07:50]: I mean, he was a great professor in my mind, great teacher, great scholar. And I took every course he taught and really enjoyed learning about the judicial process, the supreme court, civil liberties, and how the court makes its decisions. So I've had a real interest in law as an undergraduate, but and this may resonate with some people. I saw that law school at the time I was coming out was a 3 year commitment. I was not ready to do another 3 years of school when I came out as an undergraduate. So I took the shortcut into the master's program. But it never never escaped me that I had this interest in law. And I was around a lot of friends at the newsroom who were in law school. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:08:32]: It's interesting that the editor and the publisher of the newspaper, they're both had law degrees at the newspaper, and it felt comfortable to move in a direction following my passions. Because I felt at the time I wanted to cover courts, I felt from the time I was studying it, oh, it would be wonderful to cover the Supreme Court. Oh, wouldn't it be great? And in my research, I found that many of the journalists who were at the New York Times and Wall Street Journal and Washington Post, and they covered the Supreme Court had law degrees. So it it made perfect sense to try to extend my journalism career and to go into an area that I had significant interest in by pursuing a law degree and then moving forward in the profession. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:15]: And I know you did attend Tulane and went back to Louisiana. So talk to me about that decision because there's lots of law schools out there, and I'm sure that you had some opportunities to be able to go to a number of places. Was it just the draw of going home, or was it something else that drew you to deciding that Tulane was the right place for you? Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:09:34]: Yeah. A couple of those things. I was already at home working for the newspaper. And so I started out looking for an opportunity where I could continue working and attend law school part time. So I wanted to go to law school as a kind of like graduate school, but it's professional school, but go part time and work full time. So I looked for opportunities, not just in New Orleans, but elsewhere. And they had several of those programs on the Eastern seaboard. You could work full time and But I would have to get a job in those places, a full time job, and go to law school as well. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:10:06]: Well, I was based in New Orleans, and there was a program there, that was part time that I focused on quite a bit, and that was at Loyola University in New Orleans. I applied. I was accepted. And I also applied to Tulane, and I I applied to just a couple of law schools because I I was based in New Orleans. Well, I I got it accepted into Loyola, and I was very happy with that. I sent in my check that I would be attending to reserve my spot in the fall class. And then I got an acceptance from Tulane as soon as I put that in the mix. And I really had to do some soul searching because I've always admired Tulane. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:10:43]: Tulane is a it had the prestige of being a member of the AAU. It's an institution that's well known and becoming more well known now because of its athletic programs. But its professional programs are top notch in business and law and medicine and and public health. Tulane is renowned for that. And I live not too far from Tulane when I was a teenager, so I could hear the roar of the crowds. And we knew we knew where we we all knew about Tulane in there. And it was a kind of a dream school that I thought I really Gee, I can never attend Tulane University. But I got an acceptance letter from Tulane and I said, Oh my, what am I gonna do now? So I went in, made an appointment with the associate dean in the law school and went in and talked with her about my decision. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:11:32]: And, of course, she put on a hard sell, and and the next thing you know, I was attending Tulane. Tulane did offer as well a partial tuition scholarship to help with the expenses, in law school. So I was very pleased to get that. And I thought, geez, this is fantastic. And so I got a first rate education there. But the decision of going to law school was really I think it was really hatched when I was an undergraduate, and it was solidified when I was a reporter and reporting on I did a lot of crime reporting, but I really wanted to report on the courts. The courts was really my focus point. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:08]: So you went through law school, got that law degree, and at some point during that whole journey, you started making a little bit of a pivot and looking at working in higher education and moving from being that journalist and moving into higher ed. And I know that after a number of years, you made a final choice, continued that education to get a PhD after being a assistant professor and being a professor and getting that type of experience as well. So talk to me about that next step, and what made you decide that you wanted to get the PhD? Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:12:46]: There's a little bit of logic in there somewhere. A logical process because it meandered a bit because I did go to law after wanting to do that. And then I did interview with newspapers and got a couple of job offers actually to go back into newspapers after law school. But there were some competing offers on the table, and one of them was to go into academia. And that same mentor, David Womack, who I mentioned earlier, who was the adviser for the paper, was leaving the University of New Orleans, and he was going to Temple University. And he called me up and said, you know, that he thought I would be perfect for this job. It was a faculty job. It was a job that paid less than I was getting paid when I was at the newspaper, but he thought I would be good at it. Dr. Laurence Alexander [00:13:29]: He thought I would love doing it. He turned out to be right. One of the things I found out in law school is I did love teaching, got the opportunity to do to be a senior fellows in law school, were 3rd year law students who worked with faculty members to help instruct and teach and and guide 1st year law students through the legal research and writing course, writing briefs and memoranda. And I got a lot of experience working with students and grading their work and under the supervision of a professor. And at the same time, one of the law schools writing competitions, writing on to one of the law reviews at law school. So in that process, I I I also...
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Maximizing Your Graduate School Success: Insights from Graduate Enrollment Experts
09/30/2024
Maximizing Your Graduate School Success: Insights from Graduate Enrollment Experts
Graduate school is an essential phase in one’s academic and professional journey, offering an intricate blend of learning, research, and networking opportunities. During the 2024 NAGAP Conference, a diverse group of experts provided valuable insights on strategies that can help graduate students maximize their success. Here's a comprehensive guide drawn from their collective wisdom. Leverage Campus Resources Bethany Satrom from Indiana University Bloomington highlighted the importance of utilizing all available resources on campus. Many institutions offer a wealth of support services such as career services hubs, faculty mentorship programs, and various networking events. Brett DiMarzo from Boston College emphasized the need for students to immerse themselves fully in their academic curriculum and extract maximum value from the experience. Accessing these resources can significantly enrich a graduate student's academic life and bolster their professional readiness. Corey Carey from John Brown University urged students to explore lesser-known resources like academic advising and tutoring, which often go untapped. By navigating through their university portals and uncovering every nook and cranny, students can find numerous support structures that can enhance their academic journey. Engage with Faculty and Mentors Keith Ramsdell from Ashland University underscored the importance of maintaining regular communication with academic advisors. Unlike undergraduate programs, graduate students often work closely with academic professionals in their field of study, making these relationships invaluable for guidance and future employment opportunities. Daniel Truesdale from the University of Chicago advised students to build strong networks with their professors and faculty. Engaging with faculty outside of classrooms and seeking mentorship can open doors to numerous networking opportunities and enrich the learning experience. Sarah Wenger from Indiana University noted the significance of having a champion or mentor throughout one’s graduate studies. A mentor can provide critical advice and support, helping students navigate the complexities of their academic and professional journeys. Build and Nurture Your Community Community building is a recurring theme among the experts. Brian Desrosiers-Tam from the University of Toronto** recommended that students find and actively engage with their community, whether through clubs, organizations, or professional groups. This engagement not only provides support but also enhances the overall graduate experience. Les Mackey from Fort Hays State University** emphasized the importance of connecting with a wide range of peers, faculty, and staff. Extending these connections beyond one’s primary area of study can lead to unexpected opportunities and collaborations. Seek Interdisciplinary Experiences Sam Fleischman provided a unique perspective on the value of interdisciplinary experiences. He argued that integrating different fields of study enriches one’s education and broadens intellectual horizons. This approach not only makes individuals better professionals but also prepares them to tackle multifaceted challenges in the real world. Network and Engage Professionally Jeremiah Nelson from Catawba College advised students not to overlook the importance of networking within their professional communities. Building connections beyond the academic environment can significantly impact career prospects. Tony Fraga from DD Agency** highlighted the importance of pairing academic achievements with industry-specific certifications. Earning certifications and adding them to your professional profiles can create a compelling advantage in the job market. Focus on Personal Well-being Dr. Noranda Wright from Georgia Southern University spoke on the importance of balancing academic responsibilities with personal well-being. Graduate studies can be overwhelming, so it's crucial to recognize stress triggers and take necessary breaks. Maintaining wellness is key to sustaining long-term success. Stay Inquisitive and Persistent Kandice King from the University of Rochester** encouraged students to remain inquisitive and persistent. Asking questions and constantly seeking knowledge can drive continuous personal and professional growth. This attitude is especially vital for PhD students who need to persevere through challenging research and experimentation. Embrace and Expand Your Network Anna Marie Bliss from WashU in Saint Louis suggested that students keep open communication lines with faculty, colleagues, and staff while being open to new ideas and cultural perspectives. Expanding your network and being adaptable can lead to significant academic and professional growth. The insights shared by the experts at the NAGAP 2024 Conference offer a comprehensive blueprint for maximizing academic and professional success in graduate school. By leveraging campus resources, engaging with mentors, building communities, exploring interdisciplinary experiences, and maintaining personal well-being, students can navigate their graduate journeys with confidence and purpose. Whether you are just beginning your studies or are well on your way, these strategies provide valuable guidance to help you succeed. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. And this week, we've got a special episode of a number of different people that I had the chance to meet at the 2024 nag app conference. And if you've never heard of NAGAP, NAGAP is the National Association For Graduate Enrollment Management And graduate enrollment professionals come together every year at their annual conference to be able to talk about how to support graduate students like yourself. And at this conference, I talked to a number of different people and asked them the question of what key strategies or actions should students undertake during graduate studies to maximize their academic and professional success? This show is all about success, and every week I wanna bring you different thoughts, ideas, perspectives. And today, you've got a whole slew of a number of different people that are going to be giving you just that. Their strategies, their thoughts on that specific question. You'll hear them answering the question in a lot of different ways. No editing has been happening in regard to what they said. And I wanted to make sure to share that with all of you. I hope you enjoy it and look forward to having you come back again next week for another great episode. Anna Marie Bliss [00:01:31]: Hi. My name is Anna Marie Bliss, and I'm the associate director of recruitment and admissions at WashU in Saint Louis. My top three strategies or pieces of advice that students should take during their graduate studies to maximize their academic and professional success would be to keep open lines of communication with staff and faculty and also their colleagues. The second one would be to be open minded and open to new ideas and different ways of thinking, especially as we think about different cultural upbringings and the ways that people are acting and engaging around us. And then finally, to seek mentorship from students who are more experienced, from faculty members, but also from key staff who are there to help aid in their success and think about career goals. Bethany Satrom [00:02:12]: Hi. I'm Bethany Satrom from the Indiana University Bloomington campus. I'm an admissions manager, so I mostly process applications for our faculty to review and a lot of data work. I think the key strategy to or action that students should take during their graduate studies to maximize their academic and professional success is to really utilize all the resources available on our campus, whether that be our career services hub or just talking with going to the networking events that we host in both in Bloomington and in other locations especially in their home cities or home countries. We try to be very involved in our international student life both on campus and off campus. I think students don't take as much advantage of that at the School of Public Environmental Affairs that I work at as much as they maybe could or should and so I think that there are other schools that maybe have a little more success with that, but I think that we're working on trying to implement more plans to make it more accessible and easier to obtain these resources. Brett DiMarzo [00:03:16]: Hi. I'm Brett DeMarzo. I'm the director of digital strategy and graduate enrollment at Boston College. And to answer the question, what key strategies or actions should students undertake during their graduate studies to maximize their academic and professional success is really to invest in the time and the effort into taking the most out of their experience. Talking with professors, getting into the academic curriculum, really putting their whole heart into the entire experience so that they really get the value out of that program. Brian Desrosiers-Tam [00:03:49]: Hi. My name is Brian Desrosiers Thame. I am assistant dean at the School of Graduate Studies at the University of Toronto. What key strategies or actions should students undertake during their graduate studies to maximize your academic and professional success? Well, I have three thoughts that I'm happy to share. I think as a graduate student who joins a new school, a new program, you know, you should make sure that you maximize all available resources that are available to you. Think about the writing center, the professional services that exist. So just make sure you'll learn about them during your orientation, and once you do, make sure you access them. The second one I think would be find your community and be part of it. Even though you may be in a remote, hybrid, or in person event, make sure you stay engaged with the community. Get to know your graduate administrators, your graduate coordinators or chairs, but also your fellow students. And a good way to do that is to, even in grad school, join some clubs, some organization, and just be sure to be present. And then by developing that sense of community, you'll have peers, colleagues who will be there to help you in the good and in the bad times. So good luck. Corey Carey [00:04:49]: My name is Corey Carey, and I'm a grad and online enrollment professional from John Brown University. And I would say that a key strategy that students should undertake during their grad studies to maximize academic and professional success is to seek out all of the things that universities offer but might not market. So different resources like academic advising, tutoring, things like that that are offered that maybe get lost in the shuffle of getting enrolled, getting getting ready for classes, getting your textbooks. So, if I were well, I am a graduate student and the things that I do is get online on my the portal that my university uses and just search every nook and cranny to find all the resources that are available to me because a lot of times resources will go untapped, unused just because students don't know about them. So that would be my advice to students is to seek out all the resources that university offers. Daniel Truesdale [00:05:51]: My name is Daniel Truesdale. I'm the associate director of enrollment management at the University of Chicago for the applied data science program. Some of the advice I always give to incoming students, you have your formal support structures while you're in the program, but also make sure to take advantage of connecting with your professors and your faculty, especially from a networking perspective. Part of grad school isn't just the technical expertise that you're going to gain, but it's also the network and community that you're going to develop. So that's an amazing opportunity that you have to take advantage of. Also, remember not to kinda lose the forest amongst the leaves. More than likely, you're you're paying to be here. You're dedicating your time. Daniel Truesdale [00:06:29]: We could be spent elsewhere. Make sure that you are gaining everything even outside outside of the curriculum that the program has to offer. So if that's organizations, if that's clubs, take advantage of those as well. So I always wanna press that because I think sometimes students forget that part of a graduate education is not just what you're gonna learn in the classroom, but the community and friendships you're gonna develop outside as well. So that would probably be my biggest advice for grad students. Jamie Gleason [00:07:00]: I'm Jamie Gleason from DD Agency. The question is what key strategies or actions should students undertake during their graduate studies to maximize academic or professional success? And I would really lean into 2 things. Graduate studies is all about network creation. So find the smartest person in your classes and get to know them more. And then ask your faculty members about internship experiences that might be applicable to the classes that you're taking, and then really dig into the things that you love and find experience work experiences in those areas to flesh out your love a little bit more. Jeremiah Nelson [00:07:38]: I'm Jeremiah Nelson. I am the outgoing immediate past president of NAGAP and a faculty member at Catawba College, Kettner School of Business. And the strategies that I recommend for my graduate students are focused on not forgetting that their academic experience is not the only experience with being a graduate student. To maximize their success, what they also need to do is to network and to engage in their professional communities. It doesn't matter how smart you are if people don't know who you are. And so you need to make sure that you are both building your skills, but also that you are getting out into the world, engaging with your professional community, and making connections so that when it's time for a job that you're ready and that people are recommending you. Kandice King [00:08:27]: Hi. My name is Kandice King. I am with University of Rochester's School of Medicine and Dentistry in Rochester, New York. As the director of graduate enrollment at SMD, I am, often asked by students about what kind of strategies they might utilize to maximize their success. And since we recruit for PhD students where we have a lot of persistence that is necessary in the success of experimentation and advancing science, always ask questions. Continue to build your persistence and continue to be inquisitive and curious throughout your graduate study and that will help you with both your academic and your personal success. Keith Ramsdell [00:09:07]: Hi, I'm Keith Ramsdell and I'm the vice president for enrollment management and marketing at Ashland University in Ashland, Ohio and I've been in that role for about oh three and a half years now and I'm pleased to answer this question the question specifically is what key strategies or action should students take during their graduate studies to maximize their academic and professional success? Now I think the one of the biggest things is to work constantly and regularly with your academic advisor unlike undergraduate programs where you're working oftentimes with a professional advisor which is great, on the graduate side, the focus really is with academic professionals who are in your area of study who can really give you some wise direction, wise counsel on the courses to take, why those courses are being taken, who to take and those types of things. They're also probably the best connected people to help you find employment after you're done certainly I know on our campus our career center for life calling also assists graduate students with finding employment when they're completed with their programs, but really those who are best connected to help you after you're done with your program are gonna be your faculty, those are the folks who have very likely been out in the field, they're connected in one way or another through their professional associations and through other networks that they've built, they can be a great resource for you and that's the direction I would encourage you to go. Les Mackey [00:10:31]: Hey there. This is Les Mackey, and I currently work with the Graduate School at Fort Hays State University. So the question, maximizing academic and professional success in graduate studies. Gosh. So many things. I guess I'll kind of split some 2 things and I'll start with the academic success side of this. First off, I think it's important to get out there and just be open to new knowledge and learning. Be open to new experiences altogether and don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone. At this point, when you get into grad school, you've already been in school for pretty long time. But in terms of just college, you've already been in college for 3, 4 years. And it's easy to get comfortable and complacent with what you do know, but it's okay not to know everything. I think one of the biggest things you can learn, and I learned in grad school, is that it's okay to say, I don't know, but I would like to. Maintain that growth mindset and stay curious. Now, looking at the professional success side of this, connect with faculty, staff, peers, and don't limit yourself to just your primary area of study or just your department at your institution. Get out there and connect with everybody. If you get the opportunity to attend a conference, whether it's to present research or for professional development purposes, connect with as many attendees as possible. If the chance ever arises to connect with alumni, go for it. Grow your network in the most meaningful way you can so you can leverage these connections during and beyond grad school. Any of these people could be a potential supervisor or colleague in the future, so take advantage of those opportunities. Marcus Hanscome [00:11:59]: I'm Marcus Hanscomb. I'm the director of enrollment marketing at DD Agency, and I'm 17 and a half years out of the higher ed side and working in universities with students. And students who wanna maximize their opportunities for academic professional success, there's opportunities certainly with graduate student associations and student clubs and certainly academic organizations if possible. So I always encourage students to take advantage of that in their time. And sometimes students are busy, so they find ways to not do those things. But also taking advantage of the opportunity to maybe volunteer for research even. There's a lot of things that are built into an academic program that students obviously have to do, but the students that really succeed and do well in the long term are the ones that jump a little bit further. They take that opportunity to volunteer with different faculty, maybe try something different than the research that they're used to, just to expose them to other areas of the discipline. Sometimes students really find something that interests them and then that kind of points them in a different direction, particularly for dissertations or thesis research later on. So students really kind of expand are gonna do the best in the long run, and I encourage them to do that. Dr. Noranda Wright [00:12:55]: Hi. I'm Dr. Noranda Wright, associate dean of graduate student services at Georgia Southern University. And I think some of the key strategies or actions that students should take during their graduate studies to maximize their academic and professional studies range from providing, professional mentors to help them balance their self, look for a balance in higher education in their studies, figure...
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From Hoops to Healing: Nia Ahart's Journey in Physical Therapy
09/23/2024
From Hoops to Healing: Nia Ahart's Journey in Physical Therapy
Graduate school is a journey marked by substantial growth, rigorous academic challenges, and opportunities to make a lasting impact. For , a 2nd-year physical therapy student at the University of Michigan Flint, this journey has been particularly enlightening and transformative. In a revealing conversation with Dr. Christopher Lewis, host of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, Nia shared her experiences, insights, and the keys to her success. This blog delves into these topics, offering a comprehensive guide for those considering or participating in graduate education. Finding the Spark: Discovering a Passion for Physical Therapy Early Inspirations Nia's journey to choosing physical therapy as her career path began early, rooted in her family's involvement in sports. Her brother, a baseball player at Akron, and Nia herself both encountered shoulder injuries requiring rehabilitation. This early exposure to physical therapy sparked her curiosity and desire to specialize in a field that would help athletes return to their optimal performance. A Personal Experience Continuing her athletic career in college, she played basketball at Colgate University and Northern Illinois University. She dealt with various injuries, spending significant time in training and physical therapy. These experiences deepened her appreciation for the field, particularly the non-invasive treatments that allowed her to avoid potentially career-ending surgery. This personal success in rehabilitation cemented her commitment to physical therapy. Choosing the Right Graduate Program: A Thoughtful Decision Evaluation Criteria Selecting a graduate school is often a complex decision. For Nia, the choice was influenced by several critical factors, including faculty expertise, opportunities for specialization in sports therapy, and connections within the industry. She initially compiled a list of schools meeting these criteria and engaged in extensive research to narrow down her options. Coming Back Home The University of Michigan Flint emerged as the top choice due to its strong faculty-student relationships, comprehensive support systems, and the unique opportunity to partake in the pro bono heart clinic. Moreover, her personal ties to Michigan, including her mother's alma mater and her uncle's coaching role, reinforced her decision to return home. Navigating the Transition: From Undergraduate to Graduate Studies Adjusting to New Academic Demands Transitioning from undergraduate work to a graduate program presents challenges, notably the shift in academic expectations and teaching methods. For Nia, the biggest adjustment was managing her time effectively. In undergraduate studies, her schedule was dictated by sports commitments and coursework. However, in graduate school, she found herself with more unstructured free time that needed careful planning. Strategies for Success Nia emphasized the importance of using a planner to organize her time, combining digital and physical to-do lists to keep track of assignments, volunteer opportunities, and exams. Establishing a study routine at the semester's beginning and setting aside time for self-care and relaxation were also crucial. Embracing Leadership and Diversity: Building Community Initiating Change Recognizing the importance of diversity and inclusion in healthcare, Nia co-founded and presided over the Wolverine BIPOC Healthcare Collective in her first year. This club aimed to provide a supportive community for students of color and foster a network of future healthcare professionals committed to serving diverse patient populations. Impactful Work Through meetings, guest speakers, and community partnerships, the club has made significant strides in creating a sense of belonging and promoting inclusivity within the program. Nia’s efforts in this area earned her the Diversity and Inclusion Award from Exat, an honor recognizing her dedication to fostering a more inclusive healthcare environment. Looking to the Future: Career Aspirations and Advice Evolving Aspirations As Nia progresses through her program, her career aspirations have evolved. Initially, she dreamed of working with top-tier sports teams like the NBA or NFL. However, exposure to various patient demographics and clinical settings has opened her mind to other possibilities within outpatient care and sports therapy. Advice for Prospective Graduate Students Nia's journey offers several valuable lessons for prospective and current graduate students. Key among these is not to overly stress about the graduate school process. Having a support network, finding an accountability buddy, and discovering one's preferred learning style early on can significantly ease the transition and improve academic performance. Graduate school is a challenging yet rewarding journey that requires a blend of passion, dedication, and effective time management. Nia Ahart’s story is a testament to the remarkable opportunities and growth that come with embracing these challenges head-on. Aspiring graduate students can draw inspiration from her experience, using her insights as a roadmap to navigate their own paths to success. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, work with you as you are going through this graduate school exploration. And it is a process. It is something that will take some people a couple of years, some people a few months, some people a few days. You never know. But for a lot of people, it is definitely a process, and it is a journey as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:49]: So as you are going through this journey, there are things that you can do, things that you can do right now to be able to help you to start on that path towards success in getting into graduate school, getting through graduate school, and being able to get out into the career that you want to be in. That's why this podcast exists. This podcast is here to help you on that journey. It's here to help you to learn and to grow from other people that have gone before you, that are in graduate school right now, that are that have been in graduate school in the past and can provide you with some insights, some tools for your toolbox, some things that will help you to be able to set yourself up for that success that you wanna see. Today, we got another great guest with us. Nia Ahardt is with us today, and Nia is a 2nd year physical therapy student at the University of Michigan Flint. I am really excited to have her here today to share her journey with you and to provide you with some of the things that she's learned along the way. Nia, thanks so much for being here today. Nia Ahart [00:01:54]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]: It is my pleasure having you here today. And one of the things that I first love doing is being able to turn the clock back in time. And I know you did your undergraduate work at Colgate University, and you got that bachelor's degree, the bachelor's of arts in biology there. And then you took a little bit of time and went and played some basketball for Northern Illinois University and finished up some of your pre physical therapy, to PT programs. But I wanna go back. Let's go back to Colgate University, maybe even before that, and talk to me about that spark, that moment that you figured out for yourself that you wanted to go beyond the bachelor's degree, and you wanted to go into physical therapy. What led you to that, and what led you to decide that physical therapy was the path that you were on? Nia Ahart [00:02:46]: So I actually started pretty young. So I grew up in a sports family, and my brother is just my role model. So he played bass baseball at Akron, and he tore his labrum. And at the same time he was 7 years apart, so I was young. I had a shoulder injury too, and we were doing physical therapy at the same time. So I was able to see his rehab, see his recovery. And then with myself, I noticed that the physical therapy that I was receiving wasn't specific to returning to sport. It was more so returning to daily life, and that's what intrigued me. Nia Ahart [00:03:22]: It's like, oh, maybe I could do something that could get an athlete back to their original skill set, so that's where it in, interests me. And and like you said, I did play basketball in college at Colgate in Northern Illinois, and I dealt with a lot of injuries myself. I had stayed in the trainer room, stayed with physical therapy, so it just continued my interest. But I was able to go through physical therapy and avoid a potentially career ending surgery, and that's where I just fell in love, where I can save somebody from having surgery or having an invasive procedure, and I can recover and rehab their injuries back to their sport. And I was able to successfully play my last year because of it. So that is where I wanted to continue. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:06]: Now I mentioned that you had gone to Northern Illinois. You finished up playing your last year of basketball there. And during that time, you were taking a number of prerequisites, getting those prerequisites done so you could apply for physical therapy school. And as you were finishing those up and going into the application process, I'm sure you did a lot of looking around and a lot of exploration to try to determine where you wanted to apply. And you ultimately decided to attend the University of Michigan, Flint. Talk to me about that thought process, that exploration process, what you were looking for in schools, and what made the University of Michigan Flint stand out, and what made you decide that that was the ultimate school that you wanted to attend? Nia Ahart [00:04:54]: It started off with that 5th year. I originally made a list of schools that had PT programs that I was interested in going to just had connections to both a good faculty and advisor standpoint as well as people that specialize in sports, which I'm hoping to get into, with physical therapy. So that's where I originally started. As I continue my application process, I realized since I was away from school for the past or away from Michigan for the past 5 years, I really wanted to come back home. My mom is a Michigan grad, My uncle was a track coach at Michigan, so I really wanted to come back home, spend some time with my family. And I just loved when I went to the open house, how connected the faculty was with the students. And it seemed like they had a great advisor student relationship, as well as a lot of peer to peer opportunities. And the thing that really stood out about Michigan's program was the pro bono clinic at heart. Nia Ahart [00:05:50]: Just being able to work with patients real time as we're learning the material as and we can see it in person and develop our clinical skills while still developing our didactic portion. I've, it was really exciting, and I love every bit about it. So that is what solidified it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:07]: So you made that transition. And you've had a number of transitions going from Colgate to Northern Illinois, to then physical therapy school. So you probably have some idea of what it takes to be able to go from school to school. But still, in going from undergraduate work and being taught in that way to going into a physical therapy doctorate program is very different. You're taught in a different way. The expectations are different. So again, can sometimes be a stark transition when you step into that type of learning environment. Talk to me about that transition for you and what did you have to do as you transitioned in to the program to find success in that journey? And what have you had to do as you've gone along to be able to both set yourself up and continue that success throughout the program. Nia Ahart [00:07:00]: The biggest thing for me was time management. In undergrad, since I played a sport, everything was planned out for me. I had a set schedule. I had a lot of free time, but I had to learn the skills to time manage and get things done with practice and lift. I think coming into grad school, it was new because I was just I was a student. Like, I didn't have to worry about going to practice. I didn't have to worry about missing school for gains, And I had a lot of free time that I wasn't used to. So just being able to develop a plan to get all my schoolwork done, still have time for me to take care of myself, do self care, work out was really big for me. Nia Ahart [00:07:40]: I am blessed to have the foundation I had from sports and from high school too, but definitely time management. That has been a very big skill and has propelled me to succeed in grad school. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:52]: As you talk about time management, are there specific things that you did to be able to not only manage your time well, but be able to really allow for you to go from that where you said that people were scheduling your time to now you having to do that yourself and having to really get yourself into that different mode. Are there specific things that you did to be able to help you to manage that well? Nia Ahart [00:08:18]: So my roommate actually got me into using a planner. I used to just use my to do list on my iPhone and just cross things out because I had so much time between assignments. But actually, planning out my life weekly and monthly has been really helpful just to see it on paper and just satisfying to cross things off by hand. I still keep my to do list on my iPhone, but it's nice to have a physical copy. And I would just say organizing myself at the beginning of the semester is something that I always have done, but just going through my syllabi and just right now, all the major assignments we have to do, right now, all of the volunteer opportunities that I signed up for, just having a sheet, a calendar for the whole semester really helps me stay focused and stay on track. Personally, I can work pretty much everywhere. I definitely need my free time just to relax, but thankfully for me, I can work and watch a little episode. So it's nice to have that self motivation to be able to work wherever. Nia Ahart [00:09:17]: I think that has set me apart for sure and has made me less stressed because I am very flexible in my studies. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]: Now recently, we heard that you were being recognized with a scholarship from Exat. And if you don't know what Exat is, Exat's a company that is focused on giving health science students in individuals in academia what they're looking for by providing education management solutions. Now, Nia, you were awarded the, Diversity and Inclusion Award, and this honors students that are promoting diversity and inclusion in the healthcare workforce. Talk to me about that, that award that you receive. And what did you do to be able to allow yourself to be considered for this award? Nia Ahart [00:10:04]: It was a great opportunity, the Diversity Inclusion Award. I had to fill out an application and go present it to our faculty, and they read our essays before selecting someone. So thankfully, I received the award. So this year, I started a diversity or BIPOC healthcare club called the Wolverine BIPOC Healthcare Collective. As 1st year, myself and Zoe Humes, we are cofounders and I'm the president. So we came in as 1st year, then we realized the lack of diversity within the program. And it's just important to have a space where we can be ourselves and have community and network to become developing health care clinicians so we can help all patients, but especially patients that look like us. So I was fortunate enough to start a club, and it's been going well. Nia Ahart [00:10:53]: We had our first meeting in January, and we've had meetings since. And we're starting to grow both physical therapy and occupational therapy. We're bringing in guest speakers, so that was in partnering community events around us and community partners. So that was a really big point in my application of this club, and it wasn't new to me to be a part of something like this. I was an ambassador in undergrad for something similar for athletes of color. But this is my first time starting this with my roommate, but from the ground up, starting in my 1st year with a lot of new changes. And it was pretty early on that we got the ball rolling in the semester. So I think just showing the initiative and just creating the space for support with fellow BIPOC members of the community was great. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: Now not every student will jump into getting involved in that way. They'll find other ways to get involved in going and taking advantage of something like you mentioned, heart, which is a pro bono clinic that students can be a part of, or they may find other things that are specifically tailored to their organization. So I commend you for putting something out there, starting something new, and being willing to jump into it with such gusto as a way to be able to allow for others to build and maintain community with individuals like themselves, because I think that's really important. Now you're working through this program. You're moving into your 2nd year within the PT program. That second year of the PT program brings more opportunities for clinical experiences, and then you'll have an even broader experiences in your 3rd year. As you're looking toward the future and now that you have a year under your belt, what are you thinking of the future? And do you have ideas of where you may end up in a few years and where you want to be as a physical therapist? Nia Ahart [00:12:48]: So I'm really excited about the future. Going into the program, I was set. I thought that I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I thought that I wanted to be with the NBA or NFL sports team. And now they say that it changes a lot during school, and I have definitely I was like, oh, I know what I'm doing. But I am definitely more open minded about what I wanna go into. I still wanna stay in the sports realm. It's not the NFL NBA dreams are not off the table, but I think I'm more open to having, like, a outpatient or specific path. Nia Ahart [00:13:19]: That's where I am at now, but we'll see. We have 2 more years and 4 more clinicals. But I just think the exposure to different realms of patients and pathways in the program is great. And it just allows you to explore things that you've never you would have never thought to go into or explore yourself. So I'm very appreciative, and honestly, I currently work at a hospital as a tech, so having that experience on top of the clinical experiences and heart as well has really opened my eyes to different pathways in the field. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:53]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today, things that you've learned along the way, things that have helped you to be successful. As you look back to your 1st year, as you're moving into your 2nd year, what are some tips that you might offer others that are considering graduate education in general? Doesn't mean that someone's considering physical therapy per se, but just in general for graduate education, what are some tips that you might offer those individuals that would help them find success sooner? Nia Ahart [00:14:20]: I think for me, the biggest thing is to not stress yourself out. I tell all the incoming 1st years that are freaking out about the process, I think it it'll all work itself out. Whatever happened, it's meant for you. I also think the big thing...
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